Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Second Round

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From: [email protected] (Kenneth McVay OBC)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer
Date: 2 Dec 1997 15:51:10 GMT

In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Weller <[email protected]> speaks to self-confessed liar, Matt Giwer:


“I don’t know why or even if he is on welfare. You insist on evidence for well known facts (eg that the dating system BCE/CE was developed by Biblical scholars), but won’t provide them for personal attacks on individuals.”

Mr. Giwer is, as becomes quite clear to anyone reading his past material, functionally incapable of providing evidence of anything.

My Marine Corps service record, for instance, is a matter of public record in the United States, available to anyone under the Freedom of Information legislation. Mr. Giwer, of course, hasn’t the balls to obtain that record – he knows full well it will demonstrate what anyone familiar with his methodology already knows: he’s a liar, interested only in the controversy that he is able to create.

I will pay the sum of Two-Thousand-Five-Hundred United States Dollars to Mr. Giwer upon his providing documentation from the United States Marine Corps that I was dishonourably discharged.

Acceptable documentation: My separation papers.

(That’s a lot of Ripple, Mr. Giwer – why don’t you go for it?)

I will pay the sum of Two-Thousand-Five-Hundred United States Dollars to Mr. Giwer upon his providing documentation that I have ever received welfare benefits, in the United States, Canada, or any other nation.

Acceptable documentation: Certified copies of welfare applications from federal, state, or provincial jurisdiction containing my signature; or cancelled cheques from any government jurisdiction administering public assistance payments, endorsed with my signature.

(That’s a lot of Ripple, Mr. Giwer – why don’t you go for it?)

Mr. Giwer, when challenged previously in similar fashion, ran away, as he always will:


I will post this second offer in the same place, for the purpose of educating Mr. Giwer’s next group of targets. In the meantime, I offer the only effective tactic with respect to Mr. Giwer’s claptrap, and that is to ignore him utterly. He has absolutely no interest in reasoned discourse – it is not possible with him. Ignore him, however, and, after a few months of frantic efforts to avoid KILL files and news filters, he will move on to a newsgroup where he isn’t known, and try his hand with a new set of victims.

Mr. Giwer is a troll and a liar. Anyone doubting this need only examine the record, which consists almost entirely of Mr. Giwer’s own words, and which dates back to January of 1994:


Mr. Giwer is a self-confessed liar:


Mr. Giwer has a terrible memory with respect to Nizkor’s funding, and our responses to his “questions:”


Mr. Giwer has even trolled himself, perhaps when he dipped into the Ripple a bit too often while online:


Mr. Giwer’s tactics never change:


I leave sci.anthropology to those who would like to enjoy it, and will not respond further with respect to your troll. I can only hope that you have the good sense to treat Mr. Giwer in the only effective way: ignore him completely. You will be able to judge your success at this by the frequency with which Mr. Giwer changes his userid… the one thing Mr. Giwer is incapable of changing, however, is his own moral and intellectual bankruptcy, and that will identify him every time.

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