Dear Dr Karen,
We failed in our Herculean efforts to get the Hydrokop Report officially.
Since you were made privy to this report please ask the Museum to give you the
copy of at least the map and I will pay you up to $100.00
Polina
Daniel Keren wrote:
> Andrew Allen, posting as “Ceacaa <[email protected]>”, wrote:
>
> # For years Believers have touted the Hydrokop Report as “proof” of
> # human remains at Birkenau and here was your big chance to get a copy
> # of the map to post, Awww darn it, Dan.
>
> Awww darn it, Seka.
>
> # I personally was very interested in how many of the “burning pits”
> # contained HAIR. Or if the remains were positively identified as human
> # as opposed to animal.
>
> Some of the holes contained remains of eyeglasses.
>
> # Heck with your fuzzy pictures of the Zyclon vent hole
>
> Poor little Seka. It’s embarrassing when the hard reality is posted,
> to prove that you’re nothing but a silly liar, isn’t it?
>
> # just post the Hydrokopp Report.
>
> I don’t have a copy, Seka.
>
> # By the way, didn’t you promise, on your mother’s honor, to post some
> # more pictures of the underside of the roof of Leichenkeller 1 Krema II…
> # the one you said was ‘rubble”?
>
> Not on my mother’s honor, but I will post them next week.
>
> # Just a friendly reminder.
>
> With friends like you, who needs toenail fungus?
>
> -Danny Keren.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:43 EDT 1999
Article: 690455 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:00:08 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 131
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690455
[email protected] wrote:
> This thread demonstrates the need for (and the good works of)
> organizations like Nizkor. When no one from this time period is alive,
> there will be more and more twisted individuals who have “explanations”
> and cry “where is the physical evidence”? If not for the evidence
> already gathered carefully, far more idiotic theories would now be
> appear.
>
> Why did the prewar Jewish population in Poland drop from 3.5 million to
> just a few thousand? What theories could the revisionists (liars) come
> up with to explain this?
>
> The posts of Polina sound sick and twisted. She writes long posts that
> seek to discredit every piece of evidence that exists. She
> appearently is hoping that an insufficient effort was made to preserve
> and document all the evidence. She hopes that some damning evidence is
> lost or destroyed for all time. Then she can say that nothing happened.
>
> Her intent is to state that nothing happened and is desperately trying
> to support that claim instead of keeping an open mind and doing
> research. Why would this individual have such a sinister motiviation?
> That hasn’t yet been explained by this poster.
>
> What is the point? Polina should answer two simple questions.
>
> 1. How many Jews were killed/murdered iin Europe?
Response: Murdered probably a few by thgieving and/or deranged Germans, some
of them executed by the Nazis like Carl Koch husband of Elsa..
Killed about few thousands as the result of executions followed
administrative trials (vide preserved Gestapo records of the Ciechanow
Rejency (County), others in the process or in reprisal operations as
hostages, killings justified by Hague and Geneva conventions
About 600,000 died in different phases of de-golding frequently resulting
in endemic epidemics especially in the ghettos, ostentatiously established
to eradicate and contain epidemics.
> 2. And, how was this carried out?
If they were killed en mass with machine gun fire, none of the 3,000,000 to
4,000,000 victims were exhumated and when the attempts were made none were
found last time tried in Lithuania in summer 1996 and the Belzec apparently
failed to estabilsh burial of 600,000 reduced from the original estimate by
eyewitness of 48,000,000 Jews (10,000 electroshocked everyhour on the hour)
later reduced to 2,500,000 then to 1,500,000 and eventually to 600,000.
Polina
> In article <[email protected]>,
> “Yale F.Edeiken” <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Richard Phillips — the man without a country wrote;
> >
> > > Philip Mathews wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > > >
> > > > >Peter Haefner [email protected] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On 23 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0400, “Yale F.Edeiken” <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>> The most notorious examples of those false
> > > > >>> documents are the witness testimonies, the
> > > > >>> forensic report and other evidence produced at
> > > > >>> the trial of ten German officers accused of
> > > > >>> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the
> > > > >>> Katyn Forest.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary
> > evidence of
> > > > the
> > > > >>Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily
> proven
> > > > >>fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it.
> >
> > > If that is so, then I find it odd that the widespread belief in
> German
> > > resposibility persisted as long as it did.
> >
> > That is because you are, as usual, babbling ignorance.
> >
> > The GERMAN forensic reports stated that the victims were shot
> were German
> > ammunition.
> >
> > Thus the hard physical evidence always pointed to the Germans as
> the
> > killers.
> >
> > And now back to the real business:
> >
> > Although Philllips sees fit to challenge the patriotism and
> loyalty of
> > others:
> >
> > 1. When confronted with an act of treasona gainst his country,
> he
> > attempted to justify that act and smear others.
> >
> > 2. He openly advocates the violent destruction of his own
> country.
> >
> > When asked to repudiate those disloyal positions he refused to
> do and
> > attempted to divert the discussion with what he now admits were cheap
> > debating tricks.
> >
> > There can be only one conclusion — he is a traitor.
> >
> > –YFE
> >
> > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> > The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> Before you buy.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:43 EDT 1999
Article: 690485 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.thuntek.net!news1.crl.com!nntp1.crl.com!
howland.erols.net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe]
Fwd:[SASIEDZI] Famine March Update
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:49:49 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192530 soc.culture.ukrainian:59899
alt.revisionism:690485
Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday’s posting,
Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the
memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine.
I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a
Pole.
Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals
while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian
extrqavaganza in the NYC.
Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet
press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders
and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the
numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in
Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon
after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid
the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even
more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the
eternal money changers.
Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes
starved, where are their mass graves.
Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early
1930’s. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or
and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an
“English” word in the Collegiate Webster’s Dictionary) of “Zelena Ukraina”
Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both.
Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone
book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would
provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of
inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily
recognizible Ukrainian surnames.
Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland’s lands after the
WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and
surnames like the parents of our President.
My “pro-Ukrainian” post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm
among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all
Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my
revisonist skull.
With revisionist greetings,
Polina Borowska
[email protected] wrote:
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> Subject: Famine March Update
>
> The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will
> be a
> procession to mourn and remember the 7 – 10 million Ukrainians that
> perished
> as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble
> at
> 10:00am at St. George’s (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All
> Saints
> Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession
> departs for
> St. Patrick’s Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will
> be a
> mass and prayers at St. Patrick’s (on 5th Ave.)
>
> It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be
> attending
> this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting
> people
> to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in
> your
> area.
>
> Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as
> many
> of the Ukes to join in on this. – Read on and pass it on…
>
> Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested.
> ————————————————————————
> Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2
> Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French.
> Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe
> http://www.egroups.com – Simplifying group communications
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:43 EDT 1999
Article: 690514 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.idt.net!
news.stealth.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist
>>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:26:29 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690514 soc.culture.polish:192546
soc.culture.ukrainian:59908 soc.culture.german:143019
soc.culture.russian:160249
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > Dear Mr Mc Vay,
>
> > In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> > Resistance Dec. 1996)
>
> There is no such “era.” The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the
> lunatic fringe.
For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical
publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the
USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not
revisionists.
> > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> > during Nuremberg trials?
>
> Anybody interested in the history of the period.
>
> But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness
> whose testimony was “extorted”
The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book
that he was tortured.
> or a signle document named in the analysis
> of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic.
The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests
mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the
rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of
Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic
Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was
expression of ethnic but not religeous war.
Polina
thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora
of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka
[II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric and smelly but
not secret or ‘exterminationist’ establishment
> –YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:44 EDT 1999
Article: 690564 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!WCG!cyclone.i1.net!news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed.icl.net!
newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Curtis’ forgery? The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:46:59 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192575 alt.revisionism:690564
As most ot the times your response is not responsive to the question
presented in the title and the text and you respond with your unrelated
sophistries.
I have written before and again that I will look at proceedings just for fun
of it and will study the Verdict carefully as this is the final word. All
testimonies are invalid unless they support the Verdict in any court and the
Verdict is the Law and the Law asigned only 0.62% of importance to the today
preeminent topic of the homicidal gas chambers. I am still awating from Dr,
Faurisson since you did not respond to the Challange how many words are
dealing in THE Verdict with the delousing and disinfestation of the camp and
the prisoners.
Returning to the original question why my text reposted by Curtis distorts
180 degrees my original statement.???
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >More expierenced Interneters, Please correct me or confirm my suspicion
> >by email.
>
> Suspicion confirmed. You haven’t a foggy notion what transpired during
> the Tribunal, because, by your own admission, you have not read the
> transcripts, nor have you read the books of documents.
>
> In short, you are an ignorant loudmouth where Nuremberg is concerned.
>
> Glad I could be of help.
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> “What I say does not make it true.” Matt Giwer, In his cups.
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt Broken link
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:44 EDT 1999
Article: 690570 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: How the Nazi Katyn Perpetrators were executed by the soviets…
>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:01:51 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690570 soc.culture.polish:192580
soc.culture.german:143034 soc.culture.russian:160260
Sara, you are an embarassment to your late father and all erudite Jews. But do
not worry. We have quite a few comuterized but ignorant Poles.
Since I can not possibly convince you and I should not be considered as credible
on this matters, I suggest that you seek confirmation at your Jewish USHMM and
Resarch Institute that 12 Gerrmans were tried and publically hanged for the Katyn
crime and assortment of other accusations on January 29, 1945 in the presence of
about 20,000 shivering Lenigraders. The condemned were brought under trhe
gallows in troikas on the beds of open lorries.
The lorries suddendly stopped under the gallows, the condemned who were sitting
with their hands tied behind their backs on benches facing the crowd with their
backs to the gallows were ordered to raise. Virtually instantly hangman loops
were thrown over their necks and litterally a seconds later all the four lorries
reved their engines and tore away in the cloud of steamy exhaust from under the
gallows.
As the steam quickly faded in the freezing air, one could see the Germans still
dangling as twelve pendulums.
While soviets (“Russians”) are accused of sadism and barbarism I disagree. They
developed the methods of execution to perfect humanity or better said
humaneness. Also it should be said that the designers of the executions were us
much ethnic Russian as the “Russian” maffiosos in the USA with names like
Dymitri
Rubinstein, Victor Glassman or Efim Salzman.
SAra, prove me wrong via USHMM and reports from Pravda and the silent newsreel
taken by the Sovfilm during the execution and in the courtroom.
Polina
Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> >>
> >> Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some
> >> >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg.
> >> >They were integral part of the prosecuting
> >> >team of the IMT. It was that international
> >> >prosecuting team who made the Katyn
> >> >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was
> >> >the same team who offered bogus Soviet
> >> >documents as evidence. By doing it, the
> >> >Western prosecutors not only compromised
> >> >their professional integrity; they commited a
> >> >criminal offence.
> >>
> >> Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted?
> >
> >I suppose so. Wasn’t it?
> >
> >> Prosecution
> >> teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves
> >> unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are
> >> you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful
> >> in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal
> >> system?
> >
> >The Western prosecutors have knowingly
> >introduced false Soviet declaration as
> >evidence. That is a criminal offence.
> >
> >> As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course)
> >> would be pleased.
> >
> >I am not sure how pleased were the seven or
> >nine Germans who were hanged for that
> >crime.
>
> Not a single Nazi was hanged for that crime.
>
> Sara
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:11 EDT 1999
Article: 192467 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!
news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,
Subject: lzawa bujda na resorach. Krytyczne komentarze wsrod tekstu
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:59:55 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 371
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192467
Urodzi³ siê w 1944 roku w obozie koncentracyjnym Stutthof.
Rzekomo matce Zydowce farncuskiego pochodzenia. Wszak tego nie mogla
skryc w obozie gdzie im kazano rozbierac sie do naga i dlaczego po
urodzeniu Ukrainiski lub polski straznik (Polakow straznikow z Trawnik
bylo okolo 10%) nie rozbil mu czaszki o sciane??
Z obozowego szpitala pielêgniarka
przenios³a go w koszu z bielizn± do pralni.
NIe wierze w ta bujde. W dniu wyzwolenia “Obozu Smirci” Dachau sluzba
fotograficzna amerky. ARmii zrobila zbiorowe zdjecie zydowskim matkom z
swietnie odzywionymi zydowskimi bobaskami niemowleciami na kolanach
wszyscy z usmiechami od ucha do ucha. Jesli w Dachau nie mordowano
polskich profesorow i zydowskich matek i bobaskow dlaczego by to miano
robic w Sztuthoff
Po paru miesi±cach przez Bramê ¦mierci zosta³
wywieziony na wolno¶æ. By³ przeznaczony do germanizacji,
Zydziatko??? To juz bez sensu nawet w jezyku Zagaldowca!!
ale adoptowa³o go polskie
ma³¿eñstwo. Kiedy dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e nie s± to jego
biologiczni rodzice, rozpocz±³
poszukiwania. ¦lad prowadzi³ za granicê.
El¿bieta Jaworska pracowa³a w pralni dla za³ogi SS. W sierpniu
1944 zauwa¿y³a, ¿e w stertach
bielizny schowane jest ma³e dziecko.
— Wiê¼niarki nie mog³y mnie ukrywaæ, grozi³ za to karcer.
Hej, a zapomnial pan panie Andrzeju o komorze gazowej albo o wannie do
robienia mydla???
Robi³y to funkcyjne, kapo pralni, za
nieoficjaln± aprobat± za³ogi SS — opowiada Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Zaloga SS zdradzala wilkolaka Hitlera … Kon by sie usmial. A
bataliony francuskich oddzialow Waffen SS do upadlego jeszcze 5 maja i w
Berlinie bronily Kancelarii Rzeszy kiedy 100% Niemcy rzucili bron!
W pralni przekazano go konwojentowi, który przywozi³ do obozu
brudn± bieliznê SS-manów, a
zabiera³ czyst±. By³ pocz±tek kwietnia 1945 roku.
SS mani kazali prac swoje kalesony i podkoszulki w ob ozie po to by
ulegly zawszawieniu a oni umarli od tego na tyfus. Coz fanatyk moze
popelniac samobojstwo i w ten sposob. A moze byli tacy glupi ci SSmani
ze nie wiedzieli ze moga najac niezawszawione Polki do prania w ich
koszarach zamiast mieszac ich bielizne z bielizna wiezniow. Coz mozgi
mieli wypelnione hitleryzmem i nie zostalo w nich miejsca na rozsadek!
A moze to holokostomaniczna martyrologia (meczennictwo) i holokostjanska
mitologia tak wypelnily mozgownice autora ze w niej nie ma miejsca na
rozsadek?
Zginê³o 70 tysiêcy
Stutthof zosta³ oswobodzony 9 maja 1945 roku, w dniu
kapitulacji Niemiec — najpó¼niej ze
wszystkich obozów koncentracyjnych na ziemiach polskich.
¯o³nierze 48 Armii 3 Frontu
Bia³oruskiego zastali w nim jedynie oko³o 300 wiê¼niów. Z
ogólnej liczby 110 tys. osadzonych w
Stutthofie i jego kilkudziesiêciu podobozach zginê³o ok. 70
tys.
Powyzsze oznacza ze w Stuthoffie powinno byc pelno mydla lub masowe
groby wieksze 30ci razy niz te w Katyniu. Jak to sie stalo ze ich nie
ma. Wszak krematorium tak malenkie nie moglo 110,000 przepalic.
Kilkunastomiesiêcznego ch³opca przewieziono do katolickiego
sierociñca w
Gdañsku-Wrzeszczu, który prowadzi³y siostry el¿bietanki.
— To by³a wylêgarnia szeregów dla SS — t³umaczy pan Andrzej. —
Gdyby wojna siê nie
skoñczy³a, zosta³bym synem jakiego¶ oficera niemieckiego.
Wszak rzekomo Hitler i SS byli antykatoliccy. Zamordowali tysiace
polskich katolickich ksiezy.
Ale z elzbietankami …. kto wie… moze to bylo jak w tej oblesnej
piesni …
Stara baba hyc hyc,
kazala se wystrzyc,
kazala se wygolic
by ja lepiej ….
To znowu Andrzej lub autor obrazaja zdrowy rozsadek i lub nasze Siostry
Elzbietanki.
Po latach ustali³, ¿e uratowa³ go komendant Stutthofu Paul
Werner-Hoppe. Tylko dlaczego?
Kto wie moze chcial sie z tym alibi przedsatwic Roosveltowi po to by
otrzymac amerykanskie obywatelstwo?
Kto w ta lipe uwierzy??
Tajemnicza koperta
Po dokarmieniu trafi³ do o¶rodka UNRRA (Organizacja Narodów
Zjednoczonych do Spraw
Pomocy i Odbudowy) w £odzi
[gdzie po wojnie bylo najwiecej Zydow]
Adopcja nast±pi³a w lipcu 1946 roku. Przysposobiony ojciec,
Wac³aw Ka¼mierczak, by³ re¿yserem i monta¿yst± w ³ódzkiej
wytwórni filmowej (w czasie
wojny nale¿a³ do referatu filmowego Biura Informacji i
Propagandy AK).
Na kierownikach BiP-u Zydow, Jerzym Makowieckim i S Widerszalu Armia
Krajowa wykonala wyrok smierci w czerwcu 1944 tuz przed wybuchem
Powstania za podejrzenie lub wspolprace z ZSSR. BiP byl do gruntu
zazydzony jak rowniez wytwornie filmow fabularnych i dokumentalnych w
Lodzi.
Biologiczny ojciec by³
prawdopodobnie francuskim oficerem.
— Adopcja mia³a charakter nieformalny. Siostry el¿bietanki
powinny mnie oddaæ do
Miêdzynarodowego Czerwonego Krzy¿a, a po przej¶ciu kwarantanny
trafi³bym do kraju moich
prawdziwych rodziców — podkre¶la.
Skad Elzbietanki mialy o tym wiedzec, chyba ze maly Andrzejek byl
obrzezany. Jesli nie ma mohela (rzezaka) obowiazkiem matki zydowki jest
obrzezac jej synka wlasnorecznie
Przybrani rodzice nadali mu imiê Andrzej.
Nic dziwnego. Po wojnie, ,z okolo 2,000,000 Zydow 98% ktorzy
postanowili robic kariere w PRL-u zmienilo po cichu nazwiska i imiona na
slowianskie tak jak rodzice prezydenta z Stolzman na Kwasnieski.
Jak siê naprawdê nazywa³, tego nie wie do dzi¶.
— Ju¿ w wieku 10 lat wyczuwa³em, ¿e co¶ jest nie tak. Nie
by³em podobny ani do matki, ani do
ojca, rodzice nie chcieli ze mn± rozmawiaæ o moim
dzieciñstwie. Dziwi³em siê, dlaczego
znajomi nazywaj± mnie Francuzikiem — wspomina Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Gdyby go przezywali Zydkiem lub Zydziakiem znalezli by sie za kratkami.
Pañstwo Ka¼mierczakowie nie chcieli go straciæ i ukrywali
przed poszukiwaniami. Kiedy w
1956 roku do Wytwórni Filmów Dokumentalnych w Warszawie
przyjecha³a jaka¶ siostra
zakonna i wypytywa³a o Andrzeja, rodzice wys³ali go na
3-miesiêczne kolonie, a potem do
internatu pijarów w Krakowie. Do prasy dali og³oszenie, ¿e
zagin±³.
Knoty. Najprawdopodobniej po synka zglosila sie jego biologiczna matka.
Którego¶ dnia znalaz³ w domu dziwn± kopertê. By³ na niej napis
— papiery Andrzeja. — Ojciec
zdenerwowa³ siê, wyrwa³ mi j± z r±k i zniszczy³. Dopiero na
³o¿u ¶mierci potwierdzi³ moje
przypuszczenia, ale nazwiska moich biologicznych rodziców ju¿
nie pamiêta³.
Pan Andrzej ma nietypow± grupê krwi — AB RH-. W pewnych
regionach Francji nie nale¿y ona
do rzadko¶ci…
W calej tej historii to tylko to zdanie jest chyba prawdziwe.
Podejrzewam ze Andrzej skonczyl medycyne w Polsce i jest hematologiem
stad i wie ze Baskowie we Francji i Hiszpanii maja najwiekszy procent Rh
negatywnej krwi, okolo 40%.
CZego Andrzej nam nie mowi to to ze na drugim miejscu sa Ukraincy a na
trzecim sa Polacy szczegolnie na poludniowyuch Kresach. Procent Rh
negatywnej krwi wskazuje na proto-Europejskie pochodzenie. Azjaci maja
100% pozytywnej krwi, Semici ( a wiec i Zydzi i Arabowie okolo 95%) a
Rosjanie ktorzy wymieszali sie wiecej z Mongolami niz Ukraincy lub
Polacy maja okolo 11%.
Krew Andrzeja wskazuje ze statystycznie biorac sprawe, mama Zydowka
Andrzeja puscila sie z ktoryms ze straznikow w Sztuthofie ktorzy w
przewazajacej ilosci byli Ukraincami i Polakami.
Dlaczego sie puscila ze straznikiem?? Ano dlatego ze zaden SS man nie
zhanbilby sie z zawszawiona Zydowka kiedy mogl to samo robic z
okoloicznymi Polkami (lub Elzbietankami jak to chca widziec historycy
Zagladowcy)
Bardzo ³adna, wysoka
„Czy jeste¶ tylko krwawi±cym mitem? Kim by³a¶… Polk±,
Francuzk±, ¯ydówk±…? Piêkn±
ciemnook± dziewczyn± czy w ³achmany odzian± wiê¼niark±? A czy
wiesz jak mam na imiê i kto
mi je nada³… mamo… czy mogê ¿yæ i umrzeæ nie wiedz±c kim
jestem” — napisa³ zaprzyja¼niony
poeta.
“Oboz Smierci Oswiecim” prezezylo 60,000 i do dzis napisano ponad 10,000
ksiazek-wspomnien na temat obozu wiekszosc z nich wicej poezji niz
prawdy.
Pan Andrzej poszukiwania rozpocz±³ po ¶mierci przysposobionych
rodziców. Odtwarza³
wszystko krok po kroku, bada³ dokumenty, archiwalia. Od
kuzynki dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e jest
synem Francuzki, urodzonym w Stutthofie.
Najwiêcej Francuzek trafi³o do obozu w 1944 roku. Du¿a ich
czê¶æ by³a pochodzenia
¿ydowskiego, gdy¿ Stutthof zosta³ w³±czony do akcji
„ostatecznego rozwi±zania kwestii
¿ydowskiej”. Przyjmuje siê, ¿e w obozie osadzono ogó³em oko³o
600 obywateli francuskich, w
tym kilkana¶cie kobiet.
Poród pana Andrzeja odebra³a Zofia Piasecka,
pielêgniarka-wiê¼niarka szpitala na rewirze
kobiecym starego obozu. Potwierdzi³a, ¿e dziecko zosta³o
uratowane i przemycone w koszu z
bielizn± do pralni.
Pani Piasecka zapomniala potwierdzic ze w pralni koszyk puszczono w
sciek kanalizacyjny i wzdluz ktorego przechodzila polska ksiezniczka o
anty-semickich pogladach ale ktora zlitowala sie nad malutkim
niemowleciem w koszyczku. Niemowle wyroslo na Andrzeja ktory narodowi
Polskiemu dal dziesiec przykazan wskazujacych jak my sie mamy odnosic do
Zydow i krypto-Zydow i marranow tzn wybierac ich do Sejmu, na
prezydenture, na minsterialne stanowiska.
Matka Andrzeja by³a jaki¶ czas na sztubie matek, gdzie przebywa³y
kobiety w
ci±¿y i po porodzie.
I zarly czerstwy czarny lecz zdrowy hitlerowski chleb po to by SS mani
na froncie przymierali glodem. Wszak wiemy ze Hitler byl sadysta i w
ten sposob utrubnial zycie swoim zonlierzom
Jedna z nich, Wanda Micha³ek, zapamiêta³a Francuzkê, która urodzi³a
ch³opca.
Pani Wanda “za cholere” nie mogla sobie przypomniec tego zaraz po wojnie
i w zeznaniach dla GKBZH ktore musiala spisac calkiem o tym
zapomniala. Ale w USA my wiemy o czyms co sie nazywa “suppressed
memories” i po niomal 60 latach sobie to wszystko przypomniala.
Hehehehehe … Tak jak Wilkomirski w Szwajcarii.
— Pierwszy raz us³ysza³em, jak mama wygl±da³a. By³a bardzo
³adna, wysoka, o ciemnych
oczach i pe³nych policzkach — relacjonuje Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Od Niemców obs³uguj±cych w czasie wojny krematorium dowiedzia³
siê, ¿e jego matka zginê³a
pod koniec kwietnia 1945 roku. Inne osoby twierdzi³y jednak,
¿e uczestniczy³a w ewakuacji
Very interesting. Po powieszeniu kilku z nich w 1946 roku w SZtuthofie
a reszte po Norymberdze w Niemczech, hiterowscy krematorzysci
ZMARTWYCHWSTALI po to by doroslemu Andrzejowi dac relacje na temat
jego mamy ktora rzekomo zginela w piecu, …. a jak nie w piecu to na
plazy. Poetycznie: jak nie ogniem to woda.
obozu. W styczniu 1945 roku wiê¼niów poprowadzono piechot± w
okolice Lêborka — przez 11
dni musieli przej¶æ prawie 140 km. ¯ydów ewakuowano na ogó³ w
kierunku morza i nad samym
brzegiem rozstrzeliwano. Pozosta³ych wiê¼niów ³adowano na
barki i wywo¿ono w kierunku
Niemiec. Marsz ¶mierci prze¿yli tylko nieliczni.
Tytu³owa³ mnie bratem
W maju 1996 roku do Polski przyjechali dziennikarze
francuskiej telewizji TF1. Program „Perdu
de vue” („Stracony z oczu”) o panu Andrzeju nakrêcili w
Stutthofie. Miesi±c pó¼niej pojecha³ na
emisjê do studia pod Pary¿em. Na ekranie mo¿na by³o zobaczyæ
zdjêcie obozu z czasów wojny,
a na jego tle nazwiska piêciu francuskich wiê¼niarek. Obok
pokazano fotografie pana Andrzeja
— gdy mia³ 5, 16 i 20 lat.
W ci±gu trzech tygodni do redakcji programu zadzwoni³o
kilkadziesi±t osób z ca³ej Europy,
g³ównie z Francji. Dwie z nich wiedzia³y, kim by³a matka pana
Andrzeja. Po kilku miesi±cach
dosta³ list od kuzyna z Francji.
— Bernard tytu³owa³ mnie swoim bratem. Napisa³, ¿e ma 31 lat i
dwójkê dzieci — opowiada
Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Okaza³o siê, ¿e matka Bernarda jest siostr± matki pana
Andrzeja.
— Nazywa³a siê Madeleine Savary, z domu Voisin. Do Stutthofu
trafi³a 9 sierpnia 1944 roku.
Urodzi³a mnie po kilku dniach. Szybko nas rozdzielili i matka
by³a przekonana, ¿e wkrótce po
porodzie zmar³em. Mia³a 21 lat — mówi pan Andrzej.
Wed³ug danych muzeum w Stutthofie, Madeleine Savary w obozie
mia³a numer 55 494, by³a
wiê¼niem wychowawczym. Zosta³a zwolniona 21 wrze¶nia 1944 roku
i skierowana do Urzêdu
Pracy w Stegnie (Arbeitsamt Steegen). Z dokumentu wydanego
przez francuskie merostwo
wynika, ¿e zmar³a w pa¼dzierniku 1995 roku w Lille.
Poznaæ prawdê
W obozie pan Andrzej zachorowa³ na czarn± ospê. W takich
przypadkach dzieci dostawa³y na
ogó³ dosercowy zastrzyk fenolu i by³y palone w krematorium. On
prze¿y³, ale pozosta³ mu tzw.
syndrom wiêzienny.
Co za nonsens. Zachorowal na ospe, przezyl ospe i nie jest ospowaty
!!! Medyczny evenement! .. unikat.
— Rodzice leczyli mnie, dokarmiali, matka kaza³a piæ tran.
Jestem im wdziêczny, ¿e mnie
wychowali.
Tranem leczyli czarna ospe. Tarzac sie mozna na dywanie ze smiechy.
To nie zespol poobozowy ma pan Andrzej. To autor tej historyjki razem z
Andrzejem cierpia na Judaic Group Fantasies of Martyrdom , zbiorowe
ujawy hebrajskiego cieprietnictwa
Mam tylko ¿al, ¿e ukryli adopcjê.
Pan Andrzej wyst±pi³ do s±du o zaprzeczenie macierzyñstwa
przysposobionej matki, co
automatycznie eliminuje ojcostwo przysposobionego ojca. Kilka
dni temu wyrok siê
uprawomocni³.
Typowa zydowska wdziecznosc, swietnie odzwierciedlona w Malowanym Ptaku
Kosinskiego i jego zafajdanym zyciu i homoseksualnym samobojstwie w
wannie
Otwiera to drogê do przywrócenia mu francuskiego obywatelstwa.
Pokrewieñstwo z francusk± rodzin± potwierdzi³y badania grupy
krwi, teraz sprawdzaj± swój
kod genetyczny.
Do niedawna Andrzej Ka¼mierczak by³ wiceprezesem
Stowarzyszenia Wiê¼niów — By³ych
Dzieci Hitlerowskich Obozów Koncentracyjnych, odszed³ z niego
na w³asn± pro¶bê, aby dzi¶
udzielaæ siê w innej organizacji.
Zapewne B’nai Brith
W pierwszych dniach wrze¶nia br., wraz z grup± by³ych
wiê¼niów, odwiedzi³ Frankfurt nad Menem. Mia³ wyst±pienie w
ratuszu, pozna³ ¿yczliwych i
otwartych Niemców. Do Francji wybiera siê w przysz³ym roku.
— Ca³y czas szukam informacji o moim ojcu — mówi pan Andrzej.
— Je¶li dostanê francuskie
obywatelstwo do Francji i tak siê nie przeniosê, moj± ojczyzn±
jest Polska.
Zapewne p. Andrzejowi idzie w Polsce swietnie interes … lub
hematologiczna praktyka. Jesli ten kalmczuch jest lekarzem nigdy bym
do niego nie poszla, jesli czlowiekiem interesu, unikalabym go na mile.
Polina Borowska
Chcê tylko poznaæ
ca³± prawdê.
PS Ks. W. prosze to przeslac do Instytutu Narodowo Radykalnego w WAwie
i do Szczerbca do druku. Moj komputer nie chce sie z nimi laczyc.
Do papurca zdaje sie dochodzi
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:12 EDT 1999
Article: 192468 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!
newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,
Subject: lzawa bujda na resorach. Krytyczne komentarze wsrod tekstu
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:59:39 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 371
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192468
Urodzi³ siê w 1944 roku w obozie koncentracyjnym Stutthof.
Rzekomo matce Zydowce farncuskiego pochodzenia. Wszak tego nie mogla
skryc w obozie gdzie im kazano rozbierac sie do naga i dlaczego po
urodzeniu Ukrainiski lub polski straznik (Polakow straznikow z Trawnik
bylo okolo 10%) nie rozbil mu czaszki o sciane??
Z obozowego szpitala pielêgniarka
przenios³a go w koszu z bielizn± do pralni.
NIe wierze w ta bujde. W dniu wyzwolenia “Obozu Smirci” Dachau sluzba
fotograficzna amerky. ARmii zrobila zbiorowe zdjecie zydowskim matkom z
swietnie odzywionymi zydowskimi bobaskami niemowleciami na kolanach
wszyscy z usmiechami od ucha do ucha. Jesli w Dachau nie mordowano
polskich profesorow i zydowskich matek i bobaskow dlaczego by to miano
robic w Sztuthoff
Po paru miesi±cach przez Bramê ¦mierci zosta³
wywieziony na wolno¶æ. By³ przeznaczony do germanizacji,
Zydziatko??? To juz bez sensu nawet w jezyku Zagaldowca!!
ale adoptowa³o go polskie
ma³¿eñstwo. Kiedy dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e nie s± to jego
biologiczni rodzice, rozpocz±³
poszukiwania. ¦lad prowadzi³ za granicê.
El¿bieta Jaworska pracowa³a w pralni dla za³ogi SS. W sierpniu
1944 zauwa¿y³a, ¿e w stertach
bielizny schowane jest ma³e dziecko.
— Wiê¼niarki nie mog³y mnie ukrywaæ, grozi³ za to karcer.
Hej, a zapomnial pan panie Andrzeju o komorze gazowej albo o wannie do
robienia mydla???
Robi³y to funkcyjne, kapo pralni, za
nieoficjaln± aprobat± za³ogi SS — opowiada Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Zaloga SS zdradzala wilkolaka Hitlera … Kon by sie usmial. A
bataliony francuskich oddzialow Waffen SS do upadlego jeszcze 5 maja i w
Berlinie bronily Kancelarii Rzeszy kiedy 100% Niemcy rzucili bron!
W pralni przekazano go konwojentowi, który przywozi³ do obozu
brudn± bieliznê SS-manów, a
zabiera³ czyst±. By³ pocz±tek kwietnia 1945 roku.
SS mani kazali prac swoje kalesony i podkoszulki w ob ozie po to by
ulegly zawszawieniu a oni umarli od tego na tyfus. Coz fanatyk moze
popelniac samobojstwo i w ten sposob. A moze byli tacy glupi ci SSmani
ze nie wiedzieli ze moga najac niezawszawione Polki do prania w ich
koszarach zamiast mieszac ich bielizne z bielizna wiezniow. Coz mozgi
mieli wypelnione hitleryzmem i nie zostalo w nich miejsca na rozsadek!
A moze to holokostomaniczna martyrologia (meczennictwo) i holokostjanska
mitologia tak wypelnily mozgownice autora ze w niej nie ma miejsca na
rozsadek?
Zginê³o 70 tysiêcy
Stutthof zosta³ oswobodzony 9 maja 1945 roku, w dniu
kapitulacji Niemiec — najpó¼niej ze
wszystkich obozów koncentracyjnych na ziemiach polskich.
¯o³nierze 48 Armii 3 Frontu
Bia³oruskiego zastali w nim jedynie oko³o 300 wiê¼niów. Z
ogólnej liczby 110 tys. osadzonych w
Stutthofie i jego kilkudziesiêciu podobozach zginê³o ok. 70
tys.
Powyzsze oznacza ze w Stuthoffie powinno byc pelno mydla lub masowe
groby wieksze 30ci razy niz te w Katyniu. Jak to sie stalo ze ich nie
ma. Wszak krematorium tak malenkie nie moglo 110,000 przepalic.
Kilkunastomiesiêcznego ch³opca przewieziono do katolickiego
sierociñca w
Gdañsku-Wrzeszczu, który prowadzi³y siostry el¿bietanki.
— To by³a wylêgarnia szeregów dla SS — t³umaczy pan Andrzej. —
Gdyby wojna siê nie
skoñczy³a, zosta³bym synem jakiego¶ oficera niemieckiego.
Wszak rzekomo Hitler i SS byli antykatoliccy. Zamordowali tysiace
polskich katolickich ksiezy.
Ale z elzbietankami …. kto wie… moze to bylo jak w tej oblesnej
piesni …
Stara baba hyc hyc,
kazala se wystrzyc,
kazala se wygolic
by ja lepiej ….
To znowu Andrzej lub autor obrazaja zdrowy rozsadek i lub nasze Siostry
Elzbietanki.
Po latach ustali³, ¿e uratowa³ go komendant Stutthofu Paul
Werner-Hoppe. Tylko dlaczego?
Kto wie moze chcial sie z tym alibi przedsatwic Roosveltowi po to by
otrzymac amerykanskie obywatelstwo?
Kto w ta lipe uwierzy??
Tajemnicza koperta
Po dokarmieniu trafi³ do o¶rodka UNRRA (Organizacja Narodów
Zjednoczonych do Spraw
Pomocy i Odbudowy) w £odzi
[gdzie po wojnie bylo najwiecej Zydow]
Adopcja nast±pi³a w lipcu 1946 roku. Przysposobiony ojciec,
Wac³aw Ka¼mierczak, by³ re¿yserem i monta¿yst± w ³ódzkiej
wytwórni filmowej (w czasie
wojny nale¿a³ do referatu filmowego Biura Informacji i
Propagandy AK).
Na kierownikach BiP-u Zydow, Jerzym Makowieckim i S Widerszalu Armia
Krajowa wykonala wyrok smierci w czerwcu 1944 tuz przed wybuchem
Powstania za podejrzenie lub wspolprace z ZSSR. BiP byl do gruntu
zazydzony jak rowniez wytwornie filmow fabularnych i dokumentalnych w
Lodzi.
Biologiczny ojciec by³
prawdopodobnie francuskim oficerem.
— Adopcja mia³a charakter nieformalny. Siostry el¿bietanki
powinny mnie oddaæ do
Miêdzynarodowego Czerwonego Krzy¿a, a po przej¶ciu kwarantanny
trafi³bym do kraju moich
prawdziwych rodziców — podkre¶la.
Skad Elzbietanki mialy o tym wiedzec, chyba ze maly Andrzejek byl
obrzezany. Jesli nie ma mohela (rzezaka) obowiazkiem matki zydowki jest
obrzezac jej synka wlasnorecznie
Przybrani rodzice nadali mu imiê Andrzej.
Nic dziwnego. Po wojnie, ,z okolo 2,000,000 Zydow 98% ktorzy
postanowili robic kariere w PRL-u zmienilo po cichu nazwiska i imiona na
slowianskie tak jak rodzice prezydenta z Stolzman na Kwasnieski.
Jak siê naprawdê nazywa³, tego nie wie do dzi¶.
— Ju¿ w wieku 10 lat wyczuwa³em, ¿e co¶ jest nie tak. Nie
by³em podobny ani do matki, ani do
ojca, rodzice nie chcieli ze mn± rozmawiaæ o moim
dzieciñstwie. Dziwi³em siê, dlaczego
znajomi nazywaj± mnie Francuzikiem — wspomina Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Gdyby go przezywali Zydkiem lub Zydziakiem znalezli by sie za kratkami.
Pañstwo Ka¼mierczakowie nie chcieli go straciæ i ukrywali
przed poszukiwaniami. Kiedy w
1956 roku do Wytwórni Filmów Dokumentalnych w Warszawie
przyjecha³a jaka¶ siostra
zakonna i wypytywa³a o Andrzeja, rodzice wys³ali go na
3-miesiêczne kolonie, a potem do
internatu pijarów w Krakowie. Do prasy dali og³oszenie, ¿e
zagin±³.
Knoty. Najprawdopodobniej po synka zglosila sie jego biologiczna matka.
Którego¶ dnia znalaz³ w domu dziwn± kopertê. By³ na niej napis
— papiery Andrzeja. — Ojciec
zdenerwowa³ siê, wyrwa³ mi j± z r±k i zniszczy³. Dopiero na
³o¿u ¶mierci potwierdzi³ moje
przypuszczenia, ale nazwiska moich biologicznych rodziców ju¿
nie pamiêta³.
Pan Andrzej ma nietypow± grupê krwi — AB RH-. W pewnych
regionach Francji nie nale¿y ona
do rzadko¶ci…
W calej tej historii to tylko to zdanie jest chyba prawdziwe.
Podejrzewam ze Andrzej skonczyl medycyne w Polsce i jest hematologiem
stad i wie ze Baskowie we Francji i Hiszpanii maja najwiekszy procent Rh
negatywnej krwi, okolo 40%.
CZego Andrzej nam nie mowi to to ze na drugim miejscu sa Ukraincy a na
trzecim sa Polacy szczegolnie na poludniowyuch Kresach. Procent Rh
negatywnej krwi wskazuje na proto-Europejskie pochodzenie. Azjaci maja
100% pozytywnej krwi, Semici ( a wiec i Zydzi i Arabowie okolo 95%) a
Rosjanie ktorzy wymieszali sie wiecej z Mongolami niz Ukraincy lub
Polacy maja okolo 11%.
Krew Andrzeja wskazuje ze statystycznie biorac sprawe, mama Zydowka
Andrzeja puscila sie z ktoryms ze straznikow w Sztuthofie ktorzy w
przewazajacej ilosci byli Ukraincami i Polakami.
Dlaczego sie puscila ze straznikiem?? Ano dlatego ze zaden SS man nie
zhanbilby sie z zawszawiona Zydowka kiedy mogl to samo robic z
okoloicznymi Polkami (lub Elzbietankami jak to chca widziec historycy
Zagladowcy)
Bardzo ³adna, wysoka
„Czy jeste¶ tylko krwawi±cym mitem? Kim by³a¶… Polk±,
Francuzk±, ¯ydówk±…? Piêkn±
ciemnook± dziewczyn± czy w ³achmany odzian± wiê¼niark±? A czy
wiesz jak mam na imiê i kto
mi je nada³… mamo… czy mogê ¿yæ i umrzeæ nie wiedz±c kim
jestem” — napisa³ zaprzyja¼niony
poeta.
“Oboz Smierci Oswiecim” prezezylo 60,000 i do dzis napisano ponad 10,000
ksiazek-wspomnien na temat obozu wiekszosc z nich wicej poezji niz
prawdy.
Pan Andrzej poszukiwania rozpocz±³ po ¶mierci przysposobionych
rodziców. Odtwarza³
wszystko krok po kroku, bada³ dokumenty, archiwalia. Od
kuzynki dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e jest
synem Francuzki, urodzonym w Stutthofie.
Najwiêcej Francuzek trafi³o do obozu w 1944 roku. Du¿a ich
czê¶æ by³a pochodzenia
¿ydowskiego, gdy¿ Stutthof zosta³ w³±czony do akcji
„ostatecznego rozwi±zania kwestii
¿ydowskiej”. Przyjmuje siê, ¿e w obozie osadzono ogó³em oko³o
600 obywateli francuskich, w
tym kilkana¶cie kobiet.
Poród pana Andrzeja odebra³a Zofia Piasecka,
pielêgniarka-wiê¼niarka szpitala na rewirze
kobiecym starego obozu. Potwierdzi³a, ¿e dziecko zosta³o
uratowane i przemycone w koszu z
bielizn± do pralni.
Pani Piasecka zapomniala potwierdzic ze w pralni koszyk puszczono w
sciek kanalizacyjny i wzdluz ktorego przechodzila polska ksiezniczka o
anty-semickich pogladach ale ktora zlitowala sie nad malutkim
niemowleciem w koszyczku. Niemowle wyroslo na Andrzeja ktory narodowi
Polskiemu dal dziesiec przykazan wskazujacych jak my sie mamy odnosic do
Zydow i krypto-Zydow i marranow tzn wybierac ich do Sejmu, na
prezydenture, na minsterialne stanowiska.
Matka Andrzeja by³a jaki¶ czas na sztubie matek, gdzie przebywa³y
kobiety w
ci±¿y i po porodzie.
I zarly czerstwy czarny lecz zdrowy hitlerowski chleb po to by SS mani
na froncie przymierali glodem. Wszak wiemy ze Hitler byl sadysta i w
ten sposob utrubnial zycie swoim zonlierzom
Jedna z nich, Wanda Micha³ek, zapamiêta³a Francuzkê, która urodzi³a
ch³opca.
Pani Wanda “za cholere” nie mogla sobie przypomniec tego zaraz po wojnie
i w zeznaniach dla GKBZH ktore musiala spisac calkiem o tym
zapomniala. Ale w USA my wiemy o czyms co sie nazywa “suppressed
memories” i po niomal 60 latach sobie to wszystko przypomniala.
Hehehehehe … Tak jak Wilkomirski w Szwajcarii.
— Pierwszy raz us³ysza³em, jak mama wygl±da³a. By³a bardzo
³adna, wysoka, o ciemnych
oczach i pe³nych policzkach — relacjonuje Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Od Niemców obs³uguj±cych w czasie wojny krematorium dowiedzia³
siê, ¿e jego matka zginê³a
pod koniec kwietnia 1945 roku. Inne osoby twierdzi³y jednak,
¿e uczestniczy³a w ewakuacji
Very interesting. Po powieszeniu kilku z nich w 1946 roku w SZtuthofie
a reszte po Norymberdze w Niemczech, hiterowscy krematorzysci
ZMARTWYCHWSTALI po to by doroslemu Andrzejowi dac relacje na temat
jego mamy ktora rzekomo zginela w piecu, …. a jak nie w piecu to na
plazy. Poetycznie: jak nie ogniem to woda.
obozu. W styczniu 1945 roku wiê¼niów poprowadzono piechot± w
okolice Lêborka — przez 11
dni musieli przej¶æ prawie 140 km. ¯ydów ewakuowano na ogó³ w
kierunku morza i nad samym
brzegiem rozstrzeliwano. Pozosta³ych wiê¼niów ³adowano na
barki i wywo¿ono w kierunku
Niemiec. Marsz ¶mierci prze¿yli tylko nieliczni.
Tytu³owa³ mnie bratem
W maju 1996 roku do Polski przyjechali dziennikarze
francuskiej telewizji TF1. Program „Perdu
de vue” („Stracony z oczu”) o panu Andrzeju nakrêcili w
Stutthofie. Miesi±c pó¼niej pojecha³ na
emisjê do studia pod Pary¿em. Na ekranie mo¿na by³o zobaczyæ
zdjêcie obozu z czasów wojny,
a na jego tle nazwiska piêciu francuskich wiê¼niarek. Obok
pokazano fotografie pana Andrzeja
— gdy mia³ 5, 16 i 20 lat.
W ci±gu trzech tygodni do redakcji programu zadzwoni³o
kilkadziesi±t osób z ca³ej Europy,
g³ównie z Francji. Dwie z nich wiedzia³y, kim by³a matka pana
Andrzeja. Po kilku miesi±cach
dosta³ list od kuzyna z Francji.
— Bernard tytu³owa³ mnie swoim bratem. Napisa³, ¿e ma 31 lat i
dwójkê dzieci — opowiada
Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Okaza³o siê, ¿e matka Bernarda jest siostr± matki pana
Andrzeja.
— Nazywa³a siê Madeleine Savary, z domu Voisin. Do Stutthofu
trafi³a 9 sierpnia 1944 roku.
Urodzi³a mnie po kilku dniach. Szybko nas rozdzielili i matka
by³a przekonana, ¿e wkrótce po
porodzie zmar³em. Mia³a 21 lat — mówi pan Andrzej.
Wed³ug danych muzeum w Stutthofie, Madeleine Savary w obozie
mia³a numer 55 494, by³a
wiê¼niem wychowawczym. Zosta³a zwolniona 21 wrze¶nia 1944 roku
i skierowana do Urzêdu
Pracy w Stegnie (Arbeitsamt Steegen). Z dokumentu wydanego
przez francuskie merostwo
wynika, ¿e zmar³a w pa¼dzierniku 1995 roku w Lille.
Poznaæ prawdê
W obozie pan Andrzej zachorowa³ na czarn± ospê. W takich
przypadkach dzieci dostawa³y na
ogó³ dosercowy zastrzyk fenolu i by³y palone w krematorium. On
prze¿y³, ale pozosta³ mu tzw.
syndrom wiêzienny.
Co za nonsens. Zachorowal na ospe, przezyl ospe i nie jest ospowaty
!!! Medyczny evenement! .. unikat.
— Rodzice leczyli mnie, dokarmiali, matka kaza³a piæ tran.
Jestem im wdziêczny, ¿e mnie
wychowali.
Tranem leczyli czarna ospe. Tarzac sie mozna na dywanie ze smiechy.
To nie zespol poobozowy ma pan Andrzej. To autor tej historyjki razem z
Andrzejem cierpia na Judaic Group Fantasies of Martyrdom , zbiorowe
ujawy hebrajskiego cieprietnictwa
Mam tylko ¿al, ¿e ukryli adopcjê.
Pan Andrzej wyst±pi³ do s±du o zaprzeczenie macierzyñstwa
przysposobionej matki, co
automatycznie eliminuje ojcostwo przysposobionego ojca. Kilka
dni temu wyrok siê
uprawomocni³.
Typowa zydowska wdziecznosc, swietnie odzwierciedlona w Malowanym Ptaku
Kosinskiego i jego zafajdanym zyciu i homoseksualnym samobojstwie w
wannie
Otwiera to drogê do przywrócenia mu francuskiego obywatelstwa.
Pokrewieñstwo z francusk± rodzin± potwierdzi³y badania grupy
krwi, teraz sprawdzaj± swój
kod genetyczny.
Do niedawna Andrzej Ka¼mierczak by³ wiceprezesem
Stowarzyszenia Wiê¼niów — By³ych
Dzieci Hitlerowskich Obozów Koncentracyjnych, odszed³ z niego
na w³asn± pro¶bê, aby dzi¶
udzielaæ siê w innej organizacji.
Zapewne B’nai Brith
W pierwszych dniach wrze¶nia br., wraz z grup± by³ych
wiê¼niów, odwiedzi³ Frankfurt nad Menem. Mia³ wyst±pienie w
ratuszu, pozna³ ¿yczliwych i
otwartych Niemców. Do Francji wybiera siê w przysz³ym roku.
— Ca³y czas szukam informacji o moim ojcu — mówi pan Andrzej.
— Je¶li dostanê francuskie
obywatelstwo do Francji i tak siê nie przeniosê, moj± ojczyzn±
jest Polska.
Zapewne p. Andrzejowi idzie w Polsce swietnie interes … lub
hematologiczna praktyka. Jesli ten kalmczuch jest lekarzem nigdy bym
do niego nie poszla, jesli czlowiekiem interesu, unikalabym go na mile.
Polina Borowska
Chcê tylko poznaæ
ca³± prawdê.
PS Ks. W. prosze to przeslac do Instytutu Narodowo Radykalnego w WAwie
i do Szczerbca do druku. Moj komputer nie chce sie z nimi laczyc.
Do papurca zdaje sie dochodzi
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:12 EDT 1999
Article: 192469 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,
Subject: lzawa bujda na resorach. Krytyczne komentarze wsrod tekstu
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:00:26 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 371
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192469
Urodzi³ siê w 1944 roku w obozie koncentracyjnym Stutthof.
Rzekomo matce Zydowce farncuskiego pochodzenia. Wszak tego nie mogla
skryc w obozie gdzie im kazano rozbierac sie do naga i dlaczego po
urodzeniu Ukrainiski lub polski straznik (Polakow straznikow z Trawnik
bylo okolo 10%) nie rozbil mu czaszki o sciane??
Z obozowego szpitala pielêgniarka
przenios³a go w koszu z bielizn± do pralni.
NIe wierze w ta bujde. W dniu wyzwolenia “Obozu Smirci” Dachau sluzba
fotograficzna amerky. ARmii zrobila zbiorowe zdjecie zydowskim matkom z
swietnie odzywionymi zydowskimi bobaskami niemowleciami na kolanach
wszyscy z usmiechami od ucha do ucha. Jesli w Dachau nie mordowano
polskich profesorow i zydowskich matek i bobaskow dlaczego by to miano
robic w Sztuthoff
Po paru miesi±cach przez Bramê ¦mierci zosta³
wywieziony na wolno¶æ. By³ przeznaczony do germanizacji,
Zydziatko??? To juz bez sensu nawet w jezyku Zagaldowca!!
ale adoptowa³o go polskie
ma³¿eñstwo. Kiedy dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e nie s± to jego
biologiczni rodzice, rozpocz±³
poszukiwania. ¦lad prowadzi³ za granicê.
El¿bieta Jaworska pracowa³a w pralni dla za³ogi SS. W sierpniu
1944 zauwa¿y³a, ¿e w stertach
bielizny schowane jest ma³e dziecko.
— Wiê¼niarki nie mog³y mnie ukrywaæ, grozi³ za to karcer.
Hej, a zapomnial pan panie Andrzeju o komorze gazowej albo o wannie do
robienia mydla???
Robi³y to funkcyjne, kapo pralni, za
nieoficjaln± aprobat± za³ogi SS — opowiada Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Zaloga SS zdradzala wilkolaka Hitlera … Kon by sie usmial. A
bataliony francuskich oddzialow Waffen SS do upadlego jeszcze 5 maja i w
Berlinie bronily Kancelarii Rzeszy kiedy 100% Niemcy rzucili bron!
W pralni przekazano go konwojentowi, który przywozi³ do obozu
brudn± bieliznê SS-manów, a
zabiera³ czyst±. By³ pocz±tek kwietnia 1945 roku.
SS mani kazali prac swoje kalesony i podkoszulki w ob ozie po to by
ulegly zawszawieniu a oni umarli od tego na tyfus. Coz fanatyk moze
popelniac samobojstwo i w ten sposob. A moze byli tacy glupi ci SSmani
ze nie wiedzieli ze moga najac niezawszawione Polki do prania w ich
koszarach zamiast mieszac ich bielizne z bielizna wiezniow. Coz mozgi
mieli wypelnione hitleryzmem i nie zostalo w nich miejsca na rozsadek!
A moze to holokostomaniczna martyrologia (meczennictwo) i holokostjanska
mitologia tak wypelnily mozgownice autora ze w niej nie ma miejsca na
rozsadek?
Zginê³o 70 tysiêcy
Stutthof zosta³ oswobodzony 9 maja 1945 roku, w dniu
kapitulacji Niemiec — najpó¼niej ze
wszystkich obozów koncentracyjnych na ziemiach polskich.
¯o³nierze 48 Armii 3 Frontu
Bia³oruskiego zastali w nim jedynie oko³o 300 wiê¼niów. Z
ogólnej liczby 110 tys. osadzonych w
Stutthofie i jego kilkudziesiêciu podobozach zginê³o ok. 70
tys.
Powyzsze oznacza ze w Stuthoffie powinno byc pelno mydla lub masowe
groby wieksze 30ci razy niz te w Katyniu. Jak to sie stalo ze ich nie
ma. Wszak krematorium tak malenkie nie moglo 110,000 przepalic.
Kilkunastomiesiêcznego ch³opca przewieziono do katolickiego
sierociñca w
Gdañsku-Wrzeszczu, który prowadzi³y siostry el¿bietanki.
— To by³a wylêgarnia szeregów dla SS — t³umaczy pan Andrzej. —
Gdyby wojna siê nie
skoñczy³a, zosta³bym synem jakiego¶ oficera niemieckiego.
Wszak rzekomo Hitler i SS byli antykatoliccy. Zamordowali tysiace
polskich katolickich ksiezy.
Ale z elzbietankami …. kto wie… moze to bylo jak w tej oblesnej
piesni …
Stara baba hyc hyc,
kazala se wystrzyc,
kazala se wygolic
by ja lepiej ….
To znowu Andrzej lub autor obrazaja zdrowy rozsadek i lub nasze Siostry
Elzbietanki.
Po latach ustali³, ¿e uratowa³ go komendant Stutthofu Paul
Werner-Hoppe. Tylko dlaczego?
Kto wie moze chcial sie z tym alibi przedsatwic Roosveltowi po to by
otrzymac amerykanskie obywatelstwo?
Kto w ta lipe uwierzy??
Tajemnicza koperta
Po dokarmieniu trafi³ do o¶rodka UNRRA (Organizacja Narodów
Zjednoczonych do Spraw
Pomocy i Odbudowy) w £odzi
[gdzie po wojnie bylo najwiecej Zydow]
Adopcja nast±pi³a w lipcu 1946 roku. Przysposobiony ojciec,
Wac³aw Ka¼mierczak, by³ re¿yserem i monta¿yst± w ³ódzkiej
wytwórni filmowej (w czasie
wojny nale¿a³ do referatu filmowego Biura Informacji i
Propagandy AK).
Na kierownikach BiP-u Zydow, Jerzym Makowieckim i S Widerszalu Armia
Krajowa wykonala wyrok smierci w czerwcu 1944 tuz przed wybuchem
Powstania za podejrzenie lub wspolprace z ZSSR. BiP byl do gruntu
zazydzony jak rowniez wytwornie filmow fabularnych i dokumentalnych w
Lodzi.
Biologiczny ojciec by³
prawdopodobnie francuskim oficerem.
— Adopcja mia³a charakter nieformalny. Siostry el¿bietanki
powinny mnie oddaæ do
Miêdzynarodowego Czerwonego Krzy¿a, a po przej¶ciu kwarantanny
trafi³bym do kraju moich
prawdziwych rodziców — podkre¶la.
Skad Elzbietanki mialy o tym wiedzec, chyba ze maly Andrzejek byl
obrzezany. Jesli nie ma mohela (rzezaka) obowiazkiem matki zydowki jest
obrzezac jej synka wlasnorecznie
Przybrani rodzice nadali mu imiê Andrzej.
Nic dziwnego. Po wojnie, ,z okolo 2,000,000 Zydow 98% ktorzy
postanowili robic kariere w PRL-u zmienilo po cichu nazwiska i imiona na
slowianskie tak jak rodzice prezydenta z Stolzman na Kwasnieski.
Jak siê naprawdê nazywa³, tego nie wie do dzi¶.
— Ju¿ w wieku 10 lat wyczuwa³em, ¿e co¶ jest nie tak. Nie
by³em podobny ani do matki, ani do
ojca, rodzice nie chcieli ze mn± rozmawiaæ o moim
dzieciñstwie. Dziwi³em siê, dlaczego
znajomi nazywaj± mnie Francuzikiem — wspomina Andrzej
Ka¼mierczak.
Gdyby go przezywali Zydkiem lub Zydziakiem znalezli by sie za kratkami.
Pañstwo Ka¼mierczakowie nie chcieli go straciæ i ukrywali
przed poszukiwaniami. Kiedy w
1956 roku do Wytwórni Filmów Dokumentalnych w Warszawie
przyjecha³a jaka¶ siostra
zakonna i wypytywa³a o Andrzeja, rodzice wys³ali go na
3-miesiêczne kolonie, a potem do
internatu pijarów w Krakowie. Do prasy dali og³oszenie, ¿e
zagin±³.
Knoty. Najprawdopodobniej po synka zglosila sie jego biologiczna matka.
Którego¶ dnia znalaz³ w domu dziwn± kopertê. By³ na niej napis
— papiery Andrzeja. — Ojciec
zdenerwowa³ siê, wyrwa³ mi j± z r±k i zniszczy³. Dopiero na
³o¿u ¶mierci potwierdzi³ moje
przypuszczenia, ale nazwiska moich biologicznych rodziców ju¿
nie pamiêta³.
Pan Andrzej ma nietypow± grupê krwi — AB RH-. W pewnych
regionach Francji nie nale¿y ona
do rzadko¶ci…
W calej tej historii to tylko to zdanie jest chyba prawdziwe.
Podejrzewam ze Andrzej skonczyl medycyne w Polsce i jest hematologiem
stad i wie ze Baskowie we Francji i Hiszpanii maja najwiekszy procent Rh
negatywnej krwi, okolo 40%.
CZego Andrzej nam nie mowi to to ze na drugim miejscu sa Ukraincy a na
trzecim sa Polacy szczegolnie na poludniowyuch Kresach. Procent Rh
negatywnej krwi wskazuje na proto-Europejskie pochodzenie. Azjaci maja
100% pozytywnej krwi, Semici ( a wiec i Zydzi i Arabowie okolo 95%) a
Rosjanie ktorzy wymieszali sie wiecej z Mongolami niz Ukraincy lub
Polacy maja okolo 11%.
Krew Andrzeja wskazuje ze statystycznie biorac sprawe, mama Zydowka
Andrzeja puscila sie z ktoryms ze straznikow w Sztuthofie ktorzy w
przewazajacej ilosci byli Ukraincami i Polakami.
Dlaczego sie puscila ze straznikiem?? Ano dlatego ze zaden SS man nie
zhanbilby sie z zawszawiona Zydowka kiedy mogl to samo robic z
okoloicznymi Polkami (lub Elzbietankami jak to chca widziec historycy
Zagladowcy)
Bardzo ³adna, wysoka
„Czy jeste¶ tylko krwawi±cym mitem? Kim by³a¶… Polk±,
Francuzk±, ¯ydówk±…? Piêkn±
ciemnook± dziewczyn± czy w ³achmany odzian± wiê¼niark±? A czy
wiesz jak mam na imiê i kto
mi je nada³… mamo… czy mogê ¿yæ i umrzeæ nie wiedz±c kim
jestem” — napisa³ zaprzyja¼niony
poeta.
“Oboz Smierci Oswiecim” prezezylo 60,000 i do dzis napisano ponad 10,000
ksiazek-wspomnien na temat obozu wiekszosc z nich wicej poezji niz
prawdy.
Pan Andrzej poszukiwania rozpocz±³ po ¶mierci przysposobionych
rodziców. Odtwarza³
wszystko krok po kroku, bada³ dokumenty, archiwalia. Od
kuzynki dowiedzia³ siê, ¿e jest
synem Francuzki, urodzonym w Stutthofie.
Najwiêcej Francuzek trafi³o do obozu w 1944 roku. Du¿a ich
czê¶æ by³a pochodzenia
¿ydowskiego, gdy¿ Stutthof zosta³ w³±czony do akcji
„ostatecznego rozwi±zania kwestii
¿ydowskiej”. Przyjmuje siê, ¿e w obozie osadzono ogó³em oko³o
600 obywateli francuskich, w
tym kilkana¶cie kobiet.
Poród pana Andrzeja odebra³a Zofia Piasecka,
pielêgniarka-wiê¼niarka szpitala na rewirze
kobiecym starego obozu. Potwierdzi³a, ¿e dziecko zosta³o
uratowane i przemycone w koszu z
bielizn± do pralni.
Pani Piasecka zapomniala potwierdzic ze w pralni koszyk puszczono w
sciek kanalizacyjny i wzdluz ktorego przechodzila polska ksiezniczka o
anty-semickich pogladach ale ktora zlitowala sie nad malutkim
niemowleciem w koszyczku. Niemowle wyroslo na Andrzeja ktory narodowi
Polskiemu dal dziesiec przykazan wskazujacych jak my sie mamy odnosic do
Zydow i krypto-Zydow i marranow tzn wybierac ich do Sejmu, na
prezydenture, na minsterialne stanowiska.
Matka Andrzeja by³a jaki¶ czas na sztubie matek, gdzie przebywa³y
kobiety w
ci±¿y i po porodzie.
I zarly czerstwy czarny lecz zdrowy hitlerowski chleb po to by SS mani
na froncie przymierali glodem. Wszak wiemy ze Hitler byl sadysta i w
ten sposob utrubnial zycie swoim zonlierzom
Jedna z nich, Wanda Micha³ek, zapamiêta³a Francuzkê, która urodzi³a
ch³opca.
Pani Wanda “za cholere” nie mogla sobie przypomniec tego zaraz po wojnie
i w zeznaniach dla GKBZH ktore musiala spisac calkiem o tym
zapomniala. Ale w USA my wiemy o czyms co sie nazywa “suppressed
memories” i po niomal 60 latach sobie to wszystko przypomniala.
Hehehehehe … Tak jak Wilkomirski w Szwajcarii.
— Pierwszy raz us³ysza³em, jak mama wygl±da³a. By³a bardzo
³adna, wysoka, o ciemnych
oczach i pe³nych policzkach — relacjonuje Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Od Niemców obs³uguj±cych w czasie wojny krematorium dowiedzia³
siê, ¿e jego matka zginê³a
pod koniec kwietnia 1945 roku. Inne osoby twierdzi³y jednak,
¿e uczestniczy³a w ewakuacji
Very interesting. Po powieszeniu kilku z nich w 1946 roku w SZtuthofie
a reszte po Norymberdze w Niemczech, hiterowscy krematorzysci
ZMARTWYCHWSTALI po to by doroslemu Andrzejowi dac relacje na temat
jego mamy ktora rzekomo zginela w piecu, …. a jak nie w piecu to na
plazy. Poetycznie: jak nie ogniem to woda.
obozu. W styczniu 1945 roku wiê¼niów poprowadzono piechot± w
okolice Lêborka — przez 11
dni musieli przej¶æ prawie 140 km. ¯ydów ewakuowano na ogó³ w
kierunku morza i nad samym
brzegiem rozstrzeliwano. Pozosta³ych wiê¼niów ³adowano na
barki i wywo¿ono w kierunku
Niemiec. Marsz ¶mierci prze¿yli tylko nieliczni.
Tytu³owa³ mnie bratem
W maju 1996 roku do Polski przyjechali dziennikarze
francuskiej telewizji TF1. Program „Perdu
de vue” („Stracony z oczu”) o panu Andrzeju nakrêcili w
Stutthofie. Miesi±c pó¼niej pojecha³ na
emisjê do studia pod Pary¿em. Na ekranie mo¿na by³o zobaczyæ
zdjêcie obozu z czasów wojny,
a na jego tle nazwiska piêciu francuskich wiê¼niarek. Obok
pokazano fotografie pana Andrzeja
— gdy mia³ 5, 16 i 20 lat.
W ci±gu trzech tygodni do redakcji programu zadzwoni³o
kilkadziesi±t osób z ca³ej Europy,
g³ównie z Francji. Dwie z nich wiedzia³y, kim by³a matka pana
Andrzeja. Po kilku miesi±cach
dosta³ list od kuzyna z Francji.
— Bernard tytu³owa³ mnie swoim bratem. Napisa³, ¿e ma 31 lat i
dwójkê dzieci — opowiada
Andrzej Ka¼mierczak.
Okaza³o siê, ¿e matka Bernarda jest siostr± matki pana
Andrzeja.
— Nazywa³a siê Madeleine Savary, z domu Voisin. Do Stutthofu
trafi³a 9 sierpnia 1944 roku.
Urodzi³a mnie po kilku dniach. Szybko nas rozdzielili i matka
by³a przekonana, ¿e wkrótce po
porodzie zmar³em. Mia³a 21 lat — mówi pan Andrzej.
Wed³ug danych muzeum w Stutthofie, Madeleine Savary w obozie
mia³a numer 55 494, by³a
wiê¼niem wychowawczym. Zosta³a zwolniona 21 wrze¶nia 1944 roku
i skierowana do Urzêdu
Pracy w Stegnie (Arbeitsamt Steegen). Z dokumentu wydanego
przez francuskie merostwo
wynika, ¿e zmar³a w pa¼dzierniku 1995 roku w Lille.
Poznaæ prawdê
W obozie pan Andrzej zachorowa³ na czarn± ospê. W takich
przypadkach dzieci dostawa³y na
ogó³ dosercowy zastrzyk fenolu i by³y palone w krematorium. On
prze¿y³, ale pozosta³ mu tzw.
syndrom wiêzienny.
Co za nonsens. Zachorowal na ospe, przezyl ospe i nie jest ospowaty
!!! Medyczny evenement! .. unikat.
— Rodzice leczyli mnie, dokarmiali, matka kaza³a piæ tran.
Jestem im wdziêczny, ¿e mnie
wychowali.
Tranem leczyli czarna ospe. Tarzac sie mozna na dywanie ze smiechy.
To nie zespol poobozowy ma pan Andrzej. To autor tej historyjki razem z
Andrzejem cierpia na Judaic Group Fantasies of Martyrdom , zbiorowe
ujawy hebrajskiego cieprietnictwa
Mam tylko ¿al, ¿e ukryli adopcjê.
Pan Andrzej wyst±pi³ do s±du o zaprzeczenie macierzyñstwa
przysposobionej matki, co
automatycznie eliminuje ojcostwo przysposobionego ojca. Kilka
dni temu wyrok siê
uprawomocni³.
Typowa zydowska wdziecznosc, swietnie odzwierciedlona w Malowanym Ptaku
Kosinskiego i jego zafajdanym zyciu i homoseksualnym samobojstwie w
wannie
Otwiera to drogê do przywrócenia mu francuskiego obywatelstwa.
Pokrewieñstwo z francusk± rodzin± potwierdzi³y badania grupy
krwi, teraz sprawdzaj± swój
kod genetyczny.
Do niedawna Andrzej Ka¼mierczak by³ wiceprezesem
Stowarzyszenia Wiê¼niów — By³ych
Dzieci Hitlerowskich Obozów Koncentracyjnych, odszed³ z niego
na w³asn± pro¶bê, aby dzi¶
udzielaæ siê w innej organizacji.
Zapewne B’nai Brith
W pierwszych dniach wrze¶nia br., wraz z grup± by³ych
wiê¼niów, odwiedzi³ Frankfurt nad Menem. Mia³ wyst±pienie w
ratuszu, pozna³ ¿yczliwych i
otwartych Niemców. Do Francji wybiera siê w przysz³ym roku.
— Ca³y czas szukam informacji o moim ojcu — mówi pan Andrzej.
— Je¶li dostanê francuskie
obywatelstwo do Francji i tak siê nie przeniosê, moj± ojczyzn±
jest Polska.
Zapewne p. Andrzejowi idzie w Polsce swietnie interes … lub
hematologiczna praktyka. Jesli ten kalmczuch jest lekarzem nigdy bym
do niego nie poszla, jesli czlowiekiem interesu, unikalabym go na mile.
Polina Borowska
Chcê tylko poznaæ
ca³± prawdê.
PS Ks. W. prosze to przeslac do Instytutu Narodowo Radykalnego w WAwie
i do Szczerbca do druku. Moj komputer nie chce sie z nimi laczyc.
Do papurca zdaje sie dochodzi
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:12 EDT 1999
Article: 192471 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!,
Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:09:44 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690362 soc.culture.polish:192471
Gord McFee wrote:
> In <[email protected]>, on Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:44:43 -0400,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Dear Yale,
> >
> > How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann
in which we
> > could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping his
cheek with his
> > tongue, the pathogmonic sign of Tardive Dyskinesia ergo side effect
of Thorazine/
>
> It is also a sign of being very nervous.
You wwould like to be so, but your local psychiatrist will tell you it is not so. Tardive
Dyskinesia is due to Thorazine and thorazine like psychotropic drugs ONLY not
nervousness.
This is you know and do not want to sell me the copy of the videotape or let me
know where
it could be bought
Polina
> [deleted]
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:13 EDT 1999
Article: 192473 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!
news.new-york.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.israel,
soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Spanish experts say NO Serbian genocide in Kosovo!
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:13:57 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 1058
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=”————CE55986023AAD5EEC1D2FA1C”
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.netherlands:165593 soc.culture.polish:192473
soc.culture.israel:240191 soc.culture.jewish:418602
————–CE55986023AAD5EEC1D2FA1C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Based on its experience with the mass graves of Jews killed in the
Holocaust (i.e. no mass graves) and the exaggerations of Jewish refugees
reported during WW II in the USA and Sweden scholars at the Polish
Historical Society long time ago predicted the results presented below.
Polina Borowska
member of the Polish Historical Society
“Maggot©” wrote:
> Spanish experts say NO Serbian genocide in Kosovo!
> by Pablo Ordaz
> commentary by Jared Israel (revised 9-27-99)
>
> [The website http://www.emperors-clothes.com encourages everyone to
> reproduce
> the following report in full including this note.]
>
> The following article from El Pais (The Country), a mainstream Spanish
> magazine, is most important. For months we’ve been barraged with
> stories
> claiming Serbs killed thousands of ethnic Albanians and dumped them in
> mass
> graves in Kosovo. Recently I did an internet search for newspaper
> articles,
> appearing in the past 90 days, and including the words ‘Kosovo’
> and ‘mass
> grave.’ The report came back: ‘More than 1000 – too many to list.’ I
> had to
> limit the search to articles in the NY Times and even then came up with
> 80,
> nearly one a day.
>
> It has been a giant air balloon of anti-Serbian publicity, but now
> comes the
> pin: Spanish forensic experts, just back from Northern Kosovo where,
> they
> were told, they would have to inspect the worst Serbian atrocities,
> found no
> mass graves and no evidence of torture.
>
> We received this article at 11 PM on 9/23 and had a translation the
> next
> morning thanks to Herb Foerstal in the U.S. The translation was then
> checked
> for accuracy, again on no notice and within a few hours, thanks to
> Julio
> Fernández Baraiba in Argentina.
>
> Below is the article from El Pais, followed by a commentary.
>
> El Pais * 23 septiembre 1999 – Nº 1238
> by PABLO ORDAZ in Madrid
>
> Spanish police and forensic experts have not found proof of Genocide in
> the
> North of Kosovo.
>
> Crimes of War – yes, Genocide – no. This was definitely shown yesterday
> by
> the group of Spanish experts formed by officials from the Scientific
> Police
> and Civilian Forensics that has just returned from Istok, the Zone in
> the
> North of Kosovo under the control of the Legion. {Spanish Legion?} 187
> cadavers found and analyzed in 9 villages were buried in individual
> graves,
> oriented for the most part toward Mecca out of respect for the
> religious
> beliefs of the Albanian Kosovars and without sign of torture. “There
> were no
> mass graves. For the most part the Serbs are not as bad as they have
> been
> painted,” reflected the forensic official Emilio Pérez Pujo.
>
> That was not the only irony. Also questioned were the successive counts
> that
> are being offered by the “allies” on the tragedy of Kosovo. “I have
> been
> reading the data from UN,” said Pérez Pujol, Director of the Forensic
> Anatomical Institute of Cartagena. “And they began with 44,000 deaths.
> Then
> they lowered it to 22,000. And now they’re going with 11,000. I look
> forward
> to seeing what the final count will really be.” The Spanish Mission
> which
> should now submit a report to the International War Crimes Tribunal in
> The
> Hague, left from Madrid in the beginning of the month of the August
> with the
> feeling that they were going on a road to hell. “They told us that we
> were
> going to the worst zone of Kosovo. That we should prepare ourselves to
> perform more than 2000 autopsies. That we would have to work until the
> end of
> November. The result is very different. We only found 187 cadavers and
> now we
> are going to return,” explained the chief inspector, Juan López
> Palafox,
> responsible for the Office of Anthropology and Scientific Police.
>
> The forensic people, as well as the police, applied their experience in
> Rwanda in order to determine what occurred in Kosovo at least in that
> section
> assigned to the Spanish detachment and they were not able to find
> evidence of
> genocide.
>
> “In the former Yugoslavia,” said López Palafox, “crimes were committed,
> some
> no doubt horrible, but they derived from the war. In Rwanda we saw 450
> corpses of women and children, one on top of another, all with their
> heads
> broken open.” The Chief Inspector added that in Kosovo, on the
> contrary, they
> had found many isolated corpses. “It gives the impression that the
> Serbs gave
> a choice to the families to leave their homes. If some member of the
> clan,
> for whatever reason, decided to remain, upon returning they were found
> dead
> from a shot or by whatever other method.” {our emphasis}
>
> One of the members of the Spanish mission shed light on events in the
> Istok
> prison, bombed at the end of May by NATO planes. The work, directed by
> López
> Palafox and Pérez Pujol was aimed at solving the following mystery: who
> killed the more than 100 prisoners – the bombs of NATO or the bullets
> of
> Serbian soldiers? The answer, according to the preliminary studies, is
> clear.
> Some of the cadavers analyzed had shrapnel wounds and therefore clearly
> appeared to have been killed by the bombardment. But others died of
> clear
> clean bullet wounds, perhaps from the bullets of machine guns. The most
> likely thesis is that after the bombardment, the prison inmates tried
> to flee
> and were shot by Serbian guards.
>
> ***
> Commentary
> by Jared Israel
>
> I’ve been reading mass grave stories in the New York Times for most of
> a day.
> I hope to do a detailed analysis soon. Meanwhile, here are a few
> observations:
>
> * You would expect these stories to be horrifying. What is surprising
> is that
> they are so repetitious – using the same phrases – that reading them is
> exhausting.
>
> * The articles are often written in semi-fictional style, as in “A cap
> lay on
> the ground, stained bright red. ‘Who would believe the Serbs would do
> this?’
> asked the gaunt Albanian. A tear trickled down the old man’s cheek.”
> This
> kind of writing encourages the reader to suspend disbelief, as one does
> when
> reading a short story, to accept emotionally charged statements as
> true.
>
> * Evidence, if any, is anecdotal; sources are vague.
>
> * The discovery or even the rumor of a grave is cited (often in a press
> conference by some authority figure) as proof of Serbian atrocities.
>
> These ‘atrocities’ are then discussed in great, though entirely
> speculative,
> detail. Trial by media. It is enough to make you gaga, especially when
> you
> read such ‘news’ for hours at a time. The mental equivalent of smog.
>
> * Arguments are circular. A supposed mass grave is discovered.
> Assumptions
> are (publicly and loudly) made about the unopened grave: the dead
> bodies will
> be Albanians; they will be civilians; they will turn out to have been
> killed
> by Serbs; the Serbs will have been soldiers or policemen. There is no
> systematic follow-up, no testing of these predictions against fact.
> Rather,
> such speculations, once uttered, become part of the record, to be cited
> in
> later articles as if proven.
>
> The Spanish experts were told they would find 2000 bodies. They found
> 187.
> That is about 10%. Many of the 187 died when NATO bombed a prison or,
> apparently. afterwards, trying to escape. The war crime involved here
> is
> NATO’s: it is a crime of war to bomb any nonmilitary target, let alone
> a
> prison, the ultimate sitting duck.
>
> Let me dwell on this point for a moment. NATO of course knew that the
> U.S.
> Air Force had bombed the prison at Istok; it was publicly reported at
> the
> time and anyway, the U.S. Air Force leads NATO, so, as a teenange
> American
> would say, ‘like, du-uh.’ It was also no mystery that these bombs
> killed
> people, prisoners and guards – that’s what bombs do. Obviously if the
> term
> ‘war crime’ has any meaning, bombing a prison is a war crime.
>
> Then why, may I ask, were the Spanish forensic scientists told to look
> for
> evidence of Serbian war crimes at Istok? Given that a massive war crime
> (the
> bombing of a prison) was publicly known to have been committed by the
> U.S.
> Air Force, why weren’t the forensic scientists instructed to look for a
> U.S.
> war crime? Why is it necessary for them now to give a press conference
> to
> reveal the STARTLING news that when the U.S. Air Force bombs a prison
> to
> smithereens – it is not an act of Serbian genocide??
>
> The Spanish scientists and policemen are correctly perceived as heroic
> for
> standing up and saying: the bombing of a prison by the U.S. Air Force
> is not
> a Serbian war crime. Doesn’t the fact that this is indeed an act of
> heroism
> tell us something about the present international climate?
>
> DOWN TO 5%
>
> The Spanish forensic scientists speculate that the remaining cadavers
> were
> Albanian civilians killed by Serbian troops or police. If these
> speculations
> are correct, these people could be victims of Serbian war crimes.
> That’s
> about 100 people, 5% of the promised 2000.
>
> In considering this 5%, I suggest we adopt a cautious approach.
>
> “IMPRESSIONS”
>
> Every official in a NATO country is under pressure to parrot the NATO
> line.
> Nevertheless these Spanish experts aired their reservations publicly.
> Note
> that when they discussed the individuals with bullet wounds they made
> clear
> they were speculating:
>
> “It gives the IMPRESSION that the Serbs gave a choice to the families
> to
> leave their homes. If some member of the clan, for whatever reason,
> decided
> to remain, upon returning they were found dead.”
>
> Of course, one can only get the “impression” that these people were
> shot by
> “the Serbs” for refusing to leave their homes if one accepts that they
> were
> members of families whom “the Serbs” had ordered to leave. But how
> could the
> scientists know this? They could only ‘know it’ from witnesses.
>
> The El Pais story says nothing about witnesses, so now we must
> speculate;
> fortunately we do know a few things.
>
> First, Kosovo is under a reign of terror by the Kosovo Liberation Army,
> with
> NATO’s blessing. At the end of this commentary we list a few articles
> documenting that reign of terror, including first hand accounts. (See
> note 1
> at end)
>
> Second, both NATO and the KLA have a strong interest in proving that
> the
> Serbian government had a policy of genocide against Albanians. NATO
> needs to
> prove this because the existence of Serbian genocide was NATO’s
> justification
> for bombing Yugoslavia for 78 days. The KLA needs to prove it because
> Serbian
> genocide is the KLA’s justification for driving Serbs and “Gypsies” out
> of
> Kosovo. As CLinton adviser Sandy Berger put it, speaking for NATO and
> the KLA:
>
> “All across Kosovo, we see reminders that America and our allies did
> the
> right thing in taking a stand against ethnic cleansing…. The Serb
> forces
> responsible for the violence are gone…But there is also tremendous
> sadness —
> from the pain of remembering and the devastation left behind by
> Milosevic’s
> campaign of hate. And in many victims there is rage, a desire for
> justice,
> and sometimes revenge. (Foreign Policy Adviser Sandy Berger, “Remarks
> to
> Council on Foreign Relations”, July 26, 1999)
>
> In this remarkable speech Mr. Berger is a) giving the KLA the green
> light to
> attack Serbs because it’s all quite understandable considering the
> “tremendous sadness” and “victims” consumed with “rage” and b) making
> the
> purpose of the war crimes investigations perfectly clear. That purpose
> is NOT
> to discover the truth. Discovery is unnecessary; Mr. Berger has
> discovered
> the truth in advance. Rather the purpose of investigation is to provide
> “reminders that America and our allies did the right thing.”
>
> Thus the investigation is controlled by two highly interested parties,
> NATO
> and the KLA. Their control includes not only the handling of evidence
> but the
> recruitment and preparation of witnesses. Obviously such witnesses can
> be
> either agents of the KLA or under KLA domination. Any witness providing
> testimony disliked by the KLA would be risking his or her life. And as
> a
> recent story in the mainstream media suggests, the KLA considers lying
> a
> perfectly legitimate weapon in winning international support. (See note
> 2 at
> end) So much for the witnesses.
>
> BIGOTS WITH A HEART
>
> And then there is the problem of the graves. The Spanish experts say
> the
> cadavers were found in individual graves, not mass graves. That is
> thoughtful
> of the Serbs. And even more thoughtful: the graves were “oriented for
> the
> most part toward Mecca out of respect for the religious beliefs of the
> Albanian Kosovars…”
>
> This is curious. I have read many newspaper articles which argue that
> Serbs
> are hostile to Albanians because the Albanians are (mostly) Muslims.
> This
> supposed hostility was supposedly the motivation for alleged anti-
> Albanian
> atrocities. The Serbs say they don’t hate anybody, that they have been
> fighting to preserve a multiethnic society against a terrorist assault
> by a
> racist faction among ethnic Albanians – a faction backed by the U.S.
> and
> Germany.
>
> Let’s assume the newspapers are right and the Serbs are mistaken. So
> first
> Serbian troops murdered these 100 Albanians out of religious hatred –
> and
> then they buried the Albanians facing Mecca out of religious respect.
> Isn’t
> this rather strange behavior?
>
> Perhaps the Spanish experts were lied to. Perhaps they were shown the
> bodies
> of KLA troops who died fighting the Yugoslav army; hence the bullet
> wounds
> (inflicted in battle) and the respectful burial (performed by the KLA
> army).
> That at least would make sense.
>
> There are many graves in Kosovo, too many. For a year and a half a
> fierce war
> raged between KLA terrorists and the Yugoslav Army and police. Aside
> from
> those who died in the fighting, we have credible evidence that the KLA
> executed many pro-Yugoslav Albanians, as well as non-Albanians (who do
> not
> necessarily differ from Albanians in appearance) not to mention
> Yugoslav
> soldiers and policemen.
>
> So, thousands of people died and were buried. The KLA has had a free
> hand in
> Kosovo since early June, plenty of time to move bodies around, to dress
> dead
> soldiers as civilians and to tutor ‘grieving relatives’ until their
> stories
> sound believable. And despite all that the Spanish scientists, sent to
> the
> zone of the worst Serbian atrocities, came back virtually empty-handed.
>
> INVESTIGATION OR INQUISITION?
>
> Some people ask: are you saying Serbs are incapable of committing
> atrocities?
> No, as with all populations, some Serbian people are probably capable
> of
> committing atrocities. But to go from this general possibility to the
> charge
> that the Serbian armed forces systematically killed Albanian civilians
> (while
> publicly arguing for multi-ethnic unity and indeed arming many
> Albanians
> against the KLA) is to go quite a distance. Traversing it requires
> something:
> proof.
>
> American legal theory says a person is innocent until proven guilty.
> Implicit
> in this approach is the notion that criminal investigation should be
> conducted by disinterested parties with a goal of finding out if there
> has
> been a crime and discovering the truth, not in proving a case to
> destroy some
> enemy.
>
> Aside from whether this standard is actually applied in the U.S. legal
> system
> (a HIGHLY debatable point) shouldn’t we apply it when dealing with
> alleged
> mass crimes possibly implicating a government and an entire people? Or
> should
> such investigations be launched only as needed to justify NATO policy?
> Should guilt then be decided by a hostile US press with government
> officials
> making prejudicial statements before the fact? Should the evidence be
> the
> testimony of ‘witnesses’ supplied by the US side in a vicious war,
> ‘witnesses’ who testify in secret, ‘witnesses’ who are never cross-
> examined
> by the accused?
>
> The use of these Inquisitorial methods of proof rebounds, proving that
> NATO
> (that is, the US government) and the media are trying to railroad the
> Serbian
> people.
>
> Every time an accusation is made, two parties go on trial: the accused
> and
> the accuser. For if an accusation can be shown to be false, then the
> question
> must be asked: was it made with malicious intent? Was it perhaps cooked
> up to
> divert attention from and/or justify some other crime, some greater
> crime,
> some crime by the accuser?
>
> The Spanish forensic scientists and policemen quoted in El Pais have
> done us
> all a service. By denying NATO’s charges they have indicted NATO. In
> doing so
> they have risked NATO’s wrath – and their careers – to tell the truth.
> Their
> decency gives one hope.
>
> (For analyses of specific instances in which NATO can be shown to have
> cooked the evidence of ‘Serbian war crimes’ see note 3 at end)
>
> ***
> NOTES
>
> Note 1: First hand reports of KLA terror
>
> * For an interview with the leader of the Jewish community in Pristina,
> Kosovo, go to: http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm or
> if on
> AOL <A HREF=” http://www.emperors-
> clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm”>Click
> here</A>
>
> *For an eye-opening report on a recent 2 week trip through Kosovo, go
> to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm or if on AOL
> <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm”>Click
> here</A>
>
> * For an interview with Kosovo Albanians who led opposition to the KLA
> and
> have been forced out of Kosovo by threat of death, go to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm or if on AOL <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm”>Click
> here</A>
>
> Note 2: KLA Woman’s Story Exposed as Lie
>
> Go to: * http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm or if on AOL
> <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm”>Click here</A>
>
> Note 3: Analysis of NATO ‘mass grave’ and ‘atrocity’ claims
> :
> * For ‘Racak – The Impossible Massacre,’ by Diana Johnstone go to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/racak.htm or if on AOL <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-
> clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/Recak.htm”>Click
> here</A>
>
> * For ‘Were NATO’s mass grave pictures faked?’ by Jared Israel go to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm or if on AOL <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm”>Click here</A>
>
> For a detailed look at (and refutation of) NATO’s most important
> massacre
> story, ‘Srebrenica: Three years and still waiting,’ go to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%
> 20pumphrey/Srebrenica.htm or
> if on AOL <A
> HREF=” http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%
> 20pumphrey/Srebrenica.ht
> m”>Click here</A>
>
> If you’re reading this article in a site other than Emperors-
> Clothes.com and
> would like to see other articles, please go to:
> http://www.emperors-clothes.com/splash.htm
> or if on AOL <A HREF=” http://www.emperors-
> clothes.com/splash.htm”>Click
> here</A>
>
> —
> HUMANITARIAN HELP FOR SERBIAN CHILDREN
> http://www.serbhelp.on.ca/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.suc.org/humanitarian/ (Page doesn`t exist)
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> Before you buy.
————–CE55986023AAD5EEC1D2FA1C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<!doctype html public “-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en”>
<html>
Based on its experience with the mass graves of Jews killed in the Holocaust
(i.e. no mass graves) and the exaggerations of Jewish refugees reported
during WW II in the USA and Sweden scholars at the Polish Historical Society
long time ago predicted the results presented below.
<p>Polina Borowska
<br>member of the Polish Historical Society
<p>”Maggot©” wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Spanish experts say NO Serbian genocide in Kosovo!
<br>by Pablo Ordaz
<br>commentary by Jared Israel (revised 9-27-99)
<p>[The website <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com</a>
encourages everyone to
<br>reproduce
<br>the following report in full including this note.]
<p>The following article from El Pais (The Country), a mainstream Spanish
<br>magazine, is most important. For months we’ve been barraged with
<br>stories
<br>claiming Serbs killed thousands of ethnic Albanians and dumped them
in
<br>mass
<br>graves in Kosovo. Recently I did an internet search for newspaper
<br>articles,
<br>appearing in the past 90 days, and including the words ‘Kosovo’
<br>and ‘mass
<br>grave.’ The report came back: ‘More than 1000 – too many to list.’
I
<br>had to
<br>limit the search to articles in the NY Times and even then came up
with
<br>80,
<br>nearly one a day.
<p>It has been a giant air balloon of anti-Serbian publicity, but now
<br>comes the
<br>pin: Spanish forensic experts, just back from Northern Kosovo where,
<br>they
<br>were told, they would have to inspect the worst Serbian atrocities,
<br>found no
<br>mass graves and no evidence of torture.
<p>We received this article at 11 PM on 9/23 and had a translation the
<br>next
<br>morning thanks to Herb Foerstal in the U.S. The translation was then
<br>checked
<br>for accuracy, again on no notice and within a few hours, thanks to
<br>Julio
<br>Fernández Baraiba in Argentina.
<p>Below is the article from El Pais, followed by a commentary.
<p>El Pais * 23 septiembre 1999 – Nº 1238
<br>by PABLO ORDAZ in Madrid
<p>Spanish police and forensic experts have not found proof of Genocide
in
<br>the
<br>North of Kosovo.
<p>Crimes of War – yes, Genocide – no. This was definitely shown yesterday
<br>by
<br>the group of Spanish experts formed by officials from the Scientific
<br>Police
<br>and Civilian Forensics that has just returned from Istok, the Zone
in
<br>the
<br>North of Kosovo under the control of the Legion. {Spanish Legion?}
187
<br>cadavers found and analyzed in 9 villages were buried in individual
<br>graves,
<br>oriented for the most part toward Mecca out of respect for the
<br>religious
<br>beliefs of the Albanian Kosovars and without sign of torture. “There
<br>were no
<br>mass graves. For the most part the Serbs are not as bad as they have
<br>been
<br>painted,” reflected the forensic official Emilio Pérez Pujo.
<p>That was not the only irony. Also questioned were the successive counts
<br>that
<br>are being offered by the “allies” on the tragedy of Kosovo. “I have
<br>been
<br>reading the data from UN,” said Pérez Pujol, Director of the
Forensic
<br>Anatomical Institute of Cartagena. “And they began with 44,000 deaths.
<br>Then
<br>they lowered it to 22,000. And now they’re going with 11,000. I look
<br>forward
<br>to seeing what the final count will really be.” The Spanish Mission
<br>which
<br>should now submit a report to the International War Crimes Tribunal
in
<br>The
<br>Hague, left from Madrid in the beginning of the month of the August
<br>with the
<br>feeling that they were going on a road to hell. “They told us that
we
<br>were
<br>going to the worst zone of Kosovo. That we should prepare ourselves
to
<br>perform more than 2000 autopsies. That we would have to work until
the
<br>end of
<br>November. The result is very different. We only found 187 cadavers
and
<br>now we
<br>are going to return,” explained the chief inspector, Juan López
<br>Palafox,
<br>responsible for the Office of Anthropology and Scientific Police.
<p>The forensic people, as well as the police, applied their experience
in
<br>Rwanda in order to determine what occurred in Kosovo at least in that
<br>section
<br>assigned to the Spanish detachment and they were not able to find
<br>evidence of
<br>genocide.
<p>”In the former Yugoslavia,” said López Palafox, “crimes were
committed,
<br>some
<br>no doubt horrible, but they derived from the war. In Rwanda we saw
450
<br>corpses of women and children, one on top of another, all with their
<br>heads
<br>broken open.” The Chief Inspector added that in Kosovo, on the
<br>contrary, they
<br>had found many isolated corpses. “It gives the impression that the
<br>Serbs gave
<br>a choice to the families to leave their homes. If some member of the
<br>clan,
<br>for whatever reason, decided to remain, upon returning they were found
<br>dead
<br>from a shot or by whatever other method.” {our emphasis}
<p>One of the members of the Spanish mission shed light on events in the
<br>Istok
<br>prison, bombed at the end of May by NATO planes. The work, directed
by
<br>López
<br>Palafox and Pérez Pujol was aimed at solving the following mystery:
who
<br>killed the more than 100 prisoners – the bombs of NATO or the bullets
<br>of
<br>Serbian soldiers? The answer, according to the preliminary studies,
is
<br>clear.
<br>Some of the cadavers analyzed had shrapnel wounds and therefore clearly
<br>appeared to have been killed by the bombardment. But others died of
<br>clear
<br>clean bullet wounds, perhaps from the bullets of machine guns. The
most
<br>likely thesis is that after the bombardment, the prison inmates tried
<br>to flee
<br>and were shot by Serbian guards.
<p>***
<p>Commentary
<br>by Jared Israel
<p>I’ve been reading mass grave stories in the New York Times for most
of
<br>a day.
<br>I hope to do a detailed analysis soon. Meanwhile, here are a few
<br>observations:
<p>* You would expect these stories to be horrifying. What is surprising
<br>is that
<br>they are so repetitious – using the same phrases – that reading them
is
<br>exhausting.
<p>* The articles are often written in semi-fictional style, as in “A cap
<br>lay on
<br>the ground, stained bright red. ‘Who would believe the Serbs would
do
<br>this?’
<br>asked the gaunt Albanian. A tear trickled down the old man’s cheek.”
<br>This
<br>kind of writing encourages the reader to suspend disbelief, as one
does
<br>when
<br>reading a short story, to accept emotionally charged statements as
<br>true.
<p>* Evidence, if any, is anecdotal; sources are vague.
<p>* The discovery or even the rumor of a grave is cited (often in a press
<br>conference by some authority figure) as proof of Serbian atrocities.
<p>These ‘atrocities’ are then discussed in great, though entirely
<br>speculative,
<br>detail. Trial by media. It is enough to make you gaga, especially when
<br>you
<br>read such ‘news’ for hours at a time. The mental equivalent of smog.
<p>* Arguments are circular. A supposed mass grave is discovered.
<br>Assumptions
<br>are (publicly and loudly) made about the unopened grave: the dead
<br>bodies will
<br>be Albanians; they will be civilians; they will turn out to have been
<br>killed
<br>by Serbs; the Serbs will have been soldiers or policemen. There is
no
<br>systematic follow-up, no testing of these predictions against fact.
<br>Rather,
<br>such speculations, once uttered, become part of the record, to be cited
<br>in
<br>later articles as if proven.
<p>The Spanish experts were told they would find 2000 bodies. They found
<br>187.
<br>That is about 10%. Many of the 187 died when NATO bombed a prison or,
<br>apparently. afterwards, trying to escape. The war crime involved here
<br>is
<br>NATO’s: it is a crime of war to bomb any nonmilitary target, let alone
<br>a
<br>prison, the ultimate sitting duck.
<p>Let me dwell on this point for a moment. NATO of course knew that the
<br>U.S.
<br>Air Force had bombed the prison at Istok; it was publicly reported
at
<br>the
<br>time and anyway, the U.S. Air Force leads NATO, so, as a teenange
<br>American
<br>would say, ‘like, du-uh.’ It was also no mystery that these bombs
<br>killed
<br>people, prisoners and guards – that’s what bombs do. Obviously if the
<br>term
<br>’war crime’ has any meaning, bombing a prison is a war crime.
<p>Then why, may I ask, were the Spanish forensic scientists told to look
<br>for
<br>evidence of Serbian war crimes at Istok? Given that a massive war crime
<br>(the
<br>bombing of a prison) was publicly known to have been committed by the
<br>U.S.
<br>Air Force, why weren’t the forensic scientists instructed
to look for
a
<br>U.S.
<br>war crime? Why is it necessary for them now to give a press conference
<br>to
<br>reveal the STARTLING news that when the U.S. Air Force bombs a prison
<br>to
<br>smithereens – it is not an act of Serbian genocide??
<p>The Spanish scientists and policemen are correctly perceived as heroic
<br>for
<br>standing up and saying: the bombing of a prison by the U.S. Air Force
<br>is not
<br>a Serbian war crime. Doesn’t the fact that this is indeed an act of
<br>heroism
<br>tell us something about the present international climate?
<p>DOWN TO 5%
<p>The Spanish forensic scientists speculate that the remaining cadavers
<br>were
<br>Albanian civilians killed by Serbian troops or police. If these
<br>speculations
<br>are correct, these people could be victims of Serbian war crimes.
<br>That’s
<br>about 100 people, 5% of the promised 2000.
<p>In considering this 5%, I suggest we adopt a cautious approach.
<p>”IMPRESSIONS”
<p>Every official in a NATO country is under pressure to parrot the NATO
<br>line.
<br>Nevertheless these Spanish experts aired their reservations publicly.
<br>Note
<br>that when they discussed the individuals with bullet wounds they made
<br>clear
<br>they were speculating:
<p>”It gives the IMPRESSION that the Serbs gave a choice to the families
<br>to
<br>leave their homes. If some member of the clan, for whatever reason,
<br>decided
<br>to remain, upon returning they were found dead.”
<p>Of course, one can only get the “impression” that these people were
<br>shot by
<br>”the Serbs” for refusing to leave their homes if one accepts that they
<br>were
<br>members of families whom “the Serbs” had ordered to leave. But how
<br>could the
<br>scientists know this? They could only ‘know it’ from witnesses.
<p>The El Pais story says nothing about witnesses, so now we must
<br>speculate;
<br>fortunately we do know a few things.
<p>First, Kosovo is under a reign of terror by the Kosovo Liberation Army,
<br>with
<br>NATO’s blessing. At the end of this commentary we list a few articles
<br>documenting that reign of terror, including first hand accounts. (See
<br>note 1
<br>at end)
<p>Second, both NATO and the KLA have a strong interest in proving that
<br>the
<br>Serbian government had a policy of genocide against Albanians. NATO
<br>needs to
<br>prove this because the existence of Serbian genocide was NATO’s
<br>justification
<br>for bombing Yugoslavia for 78 days. The KLA needs to prove it because
<br>Serbian
<br>genocide is the KLA’s justification for driving Serbs and “Gypsies”
out
<br>of
<br>Kosovo. As CLinton adviser Sandy Berger put it, speaking for NATO and
<br>the KLA:
<p>”All across Kosovo, we see reminders that America and our allies did
<br>the
<br>right thing in taking a stand against ethnic cleansing…. The Serb
<br>forces
<br>responsible for the violence are gone…But there is also tremendous
<br>sadness —
<br>from the pain of remembering and the devastation left behind by
<br>Milosevic’s
<br>campaign of hate. And in many victims there is rage, a desire for
<br>justice,
<br>and sometimes revenge. (Foreign Policy Adviser Sandy Berger, “Remarks
<br>to
<br>Council on Foreign Relations”, July 26, 1999)
<p>In this remarkable speech Mr. Berger is a) giving the KLA the green
<br>light to
<br>attack Serbs because it’s all quite understandable considering the
<br>”tremendous sadness” and “victims” consumed with “rage” and b) making
<br>the
<br>purpose of the war crimes investigations perfectly clear. That purpose
<br>is NOT
<br>to discover the truth. Discovery is unnecessary; Mr. Berger has
<br>discovered
<br>the truth in advance. Rather the purpose of investigation is to provide
<br>”reminders that America and our allies did the right thing.”
<p>Thus the investigation is controlled by two highly interested parties,
<br>NATO
<br>and the KLA. Their control includes not only the handling of evidence
<br>but the
<br>recruitment and preparation of witnesses. Obviously such witnesses
can
<br>be
<br>either agents of the KLA or under KLA domination. Any witness providing
<br>testimony disliked by the KLA would be risking his or her life. And
as
<br>a
<br>recent story in the mainstream media suggests, the KLA considers lying
<br>a
<br>perfectly legitimate weapon in winning international support. (See
note
<br>2 at
<br>end) So much for the witnesses.
<p>BIGOTS WITH A HEART
<p>And then there is the problem of the graves. The Spanish experts say
<br>the
<br>cadavers were found in individual graves, not mass graves. That is
<br>thoughtful
<br>of the Serbs. And even more thoughtful: the graves were “oriented for
<br>the
<br>most part toward Mecca out of respect for the religious beliefs of
the
<br>Albanian Kosovars…”
<p>This is curious. I have read many newspaper articles which argue that
<br>Serbs
<br>are hostile to Albanians because the Albanians are (mostly) Muslims.
<br>This
<br>supposed hostility was supposedly the motivation for alleged anti-
<br>Albanian
<br>atrocities. The Serbs say they don’t hate anybody, that they have been
<br>fighting to preserve a multiethnic society against a terrorist assault
<br>by a
<br>racist faction among ethnic Albanians – a faction backed by the U.S.
<br>and
<br>Germany.
<p>Let’s assume the newspapers are right and the Serbs are mistaken. So
<br>first
<br>Serbian troops murdered these 100 Albanians out of religious hatred
–
<br>and
<br>then they buried the Albanians facing Mecca out of religious respect.
<br>Isn’t
<br>this rather strange behavior?
<p>Perhaps the Spanish experts were lied to. Perhaps they were shown the
<br>bodies
<br>of KLA troops who died fighting the Yugoslav army; hence the bullet
<br>wounds
<br>(inflicted in battle) and the respectful burial (performed by the KLA
<br>army).
<br>That at least would make sense.
<p>There are many graves in Kosovo, too many. For a year and a half a
<br>fierce war
<br>raged between KLA terrorists and the Yugoslav Army and police. Aside
<br>from
<br>those who died in the fighting, we have credible evidence that the
KLA
<br>executed many pro-Yugoslav Albanians, as well as non-Albanians (who
do
<br>not
<br>necessarily differ from Albanians in appearance) not to mention
<br>Yugoslav
<br>soldiers and policemen.
<p>So, thousands of people died and were buried. The KLA has had a free
<br>hand in
<br>Kosovo since early June, plenty of time to move bodies around, to dress
<br>dead
<br>soldiers as civilians and to tutor ‘grieving relatives’ until their
<br>stories
<br>sound believable. And despite all that the Spanish scientists, sent
to
<br>the
<br>zone of the worst Serbian atrocities, came back virtually empty-handed.
<p>INVESTIGATION OR INQUISITION?
<p>Some people ask: are you saying Serbs are incapable of committing
<br>atrocities?
<br>No, as with all populations, some Serbian people are probably capable
<br>of
<br>committing atrocities. But to go from this general possibility to the
<br>charge
<br>that the Serbian armed forces systematically killed Albanian civilians
<br>(while
<br>publicly arguing for multi-ethnic unity and indeed arming many
<br>Albanians
<br>against the KLA) is to go quite a distance. Traversing it requires
<br>something:
<br>proof.
<p>American legal theory says a person is innocent until proven guilty.
<br>Implicit
<br>in this approach is the notion that criminal investigation should be
<br>conducted by disinterested parties with a goal of finding out if there
<br>has
<br>been a crime and discovering the truth, not in proving a case to
<br>destroy some
<br>enemy.
<p>Aside from whether this standard is actually applied in the U.S. legal
<br>system
<br>(a HIGHLY debatable point) shouldn’t we apply it when dealing with
<br>alleged
<br>mass crimes possibly implicating a government and an entire people?
Or
<br>should
<br>such investigations be launched only as needed to justify NATO policy?
<br>Should guilt then be decided by a hostile US press with government
<br>officials
<br>making prejudicial statements before the fact? Should the evidence
be
<br>the
<br>testimony of ‘witnesses’ supplied by the US side in a vicious war,
<br>’witnesses’ who testify in secret, ‘witnesses’ who are never cross-
<br>examined
<br>by the accused?
<p>The use of these Inquisitorial methods of proof rebounds, proving that
<br>NATO
<br>(that is, the US government) and the media are trying to railroad the
<br>Serbian
<br>people.
<p>Every time an accusation is made, two parties go on trial: the accused
<br>and
<br>the accuser. For if an accusation can be shown to be false, then the
<br>question
<br>must be asked: was it made with malicious intent? Was it perhaps cooked
<br>up to
<br>divert attention from and/or justify some other crime, some greater
<br>crime,
<br>some crime by the accuser?
<p>The Spanish forensic scientists and policemen quoted in El Pais have
<br>done us
<br>all a service. By denying NATO’s charges they have indicted NATO. In
<br>doing so
<br>they have risked NATO’s wrath – and their careers – to tell the truth.
<br>Their
<br>decency gives one hope.
<p>(For analyses of specific instances in which NATO can be shown to have
<br>cooked the evidence of ‘Serbian war crimes’ see note 3 at end)
<p>***
<p>NOTES
<p>Note 1: First hand reports of KLA terror
<p>* For an interview with the leader of the Jewish community in Pristina,
<br>Kosovo, go to: <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm</a>
or
<br>if on
<br>AOL <A HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors”>http://www.emperors</a>-
<br>clothes.com/interviews/ceda.htm”>Click
<br>here</A>
<p>*For an eye-opening report on a recent 2 week trip through Kosovo, go
<br>to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm</a>
or if on AOL
<br><A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/zoran/&back.htm</a>”>Click
<br>here</A>
<p>* For an interview with Kosovo Albanians who led opposition to the KLA
<br>and
<br>have been forced out of Kosovo by threat of death, go to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm</a>
or if on AOL <A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/alban.htm</a>”>Click
<br>here</A>
<p>Note 2: KLA Woman’s Story Exposed as Lie
<p>Go to: * <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm</a>
or if on AOL
<br><A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/news/cbclie.htm</a>”>Click
here</A>
<p>Note 3: Analysis of NATO ‘mass grave’ and ‘atrocity’ claims
<br>:
<br>* For ‘Racak – The Impossible Massacre,’ by Diana Johnstone go to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/racak.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/racak.htm</a>
or if on AOL <A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors”>http://www.emperors</a>-
<br>clothes.com/articles/Johnstone/Recak.htm”>Click
<br>here</A>
<p>* For ‘Were NATO’s mass grave pictures faked?’ by Jared Israel go to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm</a>
or if on AOL <A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/misc/graves.htm</a>”>Click
here</A>
<p>For a detailed look at (and refutation of) NATO’s most important
<br>massacre
<br>story, ‘Srebrenica: Three years and still waiting,’ go to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%</a>
<br>20pumphrey/Srebrenica.htm or
<br>if on AOL <A
<br>HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%”>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/Articles/george%</a>
<br>20pumphrey/Srebrenica.ht
<br>m”>Click here</A>
<p>If you’re reading this article in a site other than Emperors-
<br>Clothes.com and
<br>would like to see other articles, please go to:
<br><a href=”http://www.emperors-clothes.com/splash.htm”(Page doesn`t exist)
>http://www.emperors-clothes.com/splash.htm</a>
<br>or if on AOL <A HREF=” <a href=”http://www.emperors”>http://www.emperors</a>-
<br>clothes.com/splash.htm”>Click
<br>here</A>
<p>–
<br>HUMANITARIAN HELP FOR SERBIAN CHILDREN
<br><a href=”http://www.serbhelp.on.ca/”(Page doesn`t exist)
>http://www.serbhelp.on.ca/</a>
<br><a href=”http://www.suc.org/humanitarian/”(Page doesn`t exist)
>http://www.suc.org/humanitarian/</a>
<p>Sent via Deja.com <a href=”http://www.deja.com/”>http://www.deja.com/</a>
<br>Before you buy.</blockquote> (Page doesn`t exist)
</html>
————–CE55986023AAD5EEC1D2FA1C–
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:13 EDT 1999
Article: 192475 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:16:47 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690366 soc.culture.polish:192475
soc.culture.german:142985 soc.culture.russian:160161
Sara Salzman wrote:
> “Polina”
>
> My father wrote the definitive textbook on Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
>
> Your definitions are completely incorrect. And even before the advent of
> medication for OCD, it was successfully treated through psychoanalysis.
Your father had unique skills, presently it is largely uncurable. Here and
there careere oriented optimistic results are reported, cautiously.
Polina
> I suppose your research on OCD is about as complete as your research pon
> the IMT.
>
> “Polina,” you should be ashamed of yourself for pretending to be
> knowledgeable about subjects that you are so obviously ignorant of.
>
> You’re only embarassing yourself and looking foolish.
>
> Sara
>
> In article <[email protected]>, polin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >John Talmudicaly splits hair and veers of the principal of the matter.
> >
> >The fact that Justice Jacson lowered himself to using dirty tricks on Spear
> >with vaporisation while he had or should have abandance of uncontrovertible
> >evidence is a great embarassment to this entire [Show] Trial.
> >
> >John also snipped out my questions how Jackson arrived at such “indirect”
> >in the first place e.g. prevarication of Jackson’s or survisor’s
> >
> >Who cares about Nurember?? I do not. The Sulzberger’s New York Times did
> >not even care about Auschwitz for years. But about that subject in the
> >next posting.
> >
> >Polina,
> >
> >PS Some readers asked me in e-mail how come that I do not react to
> >invectives slurs personals and gutter language of my holocaustian
> >opponents.
> >
> >My response is the following.
> >
> >1) I know that I will never convince about anything Mr Morris Drs Keren and
> >Gorski a.k.a ORAC or Yale or Philps or even K. Mc Vay. HOwever,
> >
> >2) I use them as convenient sounding board and use their frequently
> >irrational and uncivil responses as a forum
> >
> >3) I am not afraid that by stating that I will lose them. They are
> >primarlily compulsive-obsessive arguers and only secondarily
> >Holocasutians. No reason, NOTHING will stop compulsive-obsessive
> >individual. There are no effective therapies known for this condition or a
> >trait.
> >
> >4) HOw do I know that they are compulsive obsessive? Because they do not
> >heed the Holocaustianity party line which forbids debate with Revisionist
> >and because of their persistance and lack of rationality and reason in
> >their responses.
> >
> >5) How do I know that I am not compulsive-obsessive [CO] myself?
> >
> >a) CO restrict themself to one subject be it Holocaustianity or brushing
> >theeth before and after every meal or even drink, or washing their hands 66
> >times a day before and after opening the refrigerator. MOreover CO could
> >not stop their rituals or activity.
> >
> >You will notice that I post on various subjects and with temporary hiatuses
> >(hiati ?? in Latin?) when I am busy with every day matters. For me posting
> >on the net is an educational entertainment.
> >
> >b) virtually all CO are pedantic even in spelling and I am to lazy to
> >bother to do the spell check since I learned that you will read me anyway
> >atrocious errors in spelling and syntax as well as occasional inaccuracies
> >in the historical details.
> >
> >Greetings to all from Polina
> >even to my oponents
> >John Morris wrote:
> >
> >> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on 25 Oct 1999 19:06:21
> >> GMT, [email protected] (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >> >polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>Astonishing!
> >>
> >> >The only “astonishing” item here is your apparently deliberate attempt
> >> >to suggest that unproven information from the Indictment had any
> >> >bearing upon the Judgment.
> >>
> >> I must demur. Using the keywords “Auschwitz,” “atomic,” and
> >> “experiment,” I am unable to find any reference in the Nuremberg
> >> indictments to an experiment to vaporize Jews at Auschwitz with atomic
> >> weapons.
> >>
> >> It is plain that Jackson’s question–the sole reference in the entire
> >> proceedings–was merely an indirection to induce Speer to testify
> >> about rumours which the Nazis employed to prolong the war.
> >>
> >> You are right that there is no question whether Jackson attempted to
> >> prove that such an experiment took place. He did not.
> >>
> >> This thread has become a mere demonstration of Mr. Dragan’s
> >> credulousness when dealing with information from Revisionist web
> >> pages.
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >> John Morris <[email protected]>
> >> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> >> —
> >> “Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens.
> >> They are members of Judeosapiens.” Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999.
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:13 EDT 1999
Article: 192479 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!
newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:24:42 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690374 soc.culture.polish:192479
Sara’s Holocasutian responses are usually embarassingly irrational. Thus I do not
bother to respond to them. However she has a better day today in a different field
than the Holocaust and also she errs she deserves response:
Your level of ignorance of psychiatry is acceptable as you are partially correct.
However you are either ingnorant or malicious that you withold information that
Tardive Dyskinesia sometimes occurs after a few dozes of thorazine like drugs and
most of the time is permanent.
Please do not take my word for that. The largest (on thousands of patients) study
of tardive dyskinesia and its natrual history and frequency has been conducted by a
Jewish doctor at the Yale School of Medicine a few years ago. I spoke with him
personally about this matter about three years ago. I do not remember his name
right now but call Dept of Psychiatry at the Yale Med School and they will give you
his name. Or try tardive dyskinesia on search engine but you will probably get
thousands references.
Polina
Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Gord McFee
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In <[email protected]>, on Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400,
> >polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Mr. K.
> >>
> >> I do not understand your question and did not say he lied.
> >>
> >> Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp
> in order to
> >> be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is
> now greatly
> >> reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians.
> >
> >Hoess never mentioned a 4 million figure. He mentioned 2.5 million
> >which he later lowered to 1.13 million.
> >
> >> Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics
> and not
> >> Eichmann and Berlin.
> >
> >The statistics were forwarded to Eichmann in Berlin, who had all the
> >records.
> >
> >> He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors.
> I think
> >> that much is clear.
> >
> >No, that much is baloney. He wasn’t forced to sign anything.
> >
> >> In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is
> >> foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying
> “once a laiar
> >> always a lair”, unless proven otherwise.
> >
> >Eichmann’s testimony was corroborated.
> >
> >> More interesting is why Eichmann “lied” on the witness stand in
> Jerusalem or in
> >> interogation room.
> >
> >Cite the lies.
> >
> >[deleted]
> >
> >> When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons:
> >>
> >> 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue
> against his cheek
> >> in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So
> far Tardive
> >> Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and
> disabling side
> >> effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic
> drugs, the
> >> mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry.
> >
> >ROTFL! Eichmann was bloody nervous and with good reason.
>
> I’m sorry I missed this one first time around, for forgive me for
> responding to Polina via your post, Gord.
>
> My son is on medication that can cause tardive dyskenesia, so we have done
> a great deal of research on it.
>
> Tardive dyskenesia is the result of LONG_TERM use of psychotropic drugs.
> LONG-TERM. Like YEARS, 5-10 years in institutions with extremely HIGH
> dosages. It is also NOT permanent and goes away when the drugs are
> withdrawn.
>
> Unless the Israelis had Eichmann on incredibly high doses of psychotropic
> drugs (making him virtually catatonic) for a few YEARS, it would be
> impossible for him to manifest symptons of it.
>
> Current medical theory includes the belief that it may actually be MODELED
> behavior among institutionalized psychiatric patients.
>
> Your information about Tardive Dyskenia, like your information about
> Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, is again, completely incorrect.
>
> I really believe you are your own worst enemy, “Polina.” Each time you try
> to sound educated, you only prove how very little you know.
>
> I strongly advise you to stay out of medical discussions especially,
> You’ve proven how little you know and how easily you are debunked.
>
> Sara
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:13 EDT 1999
Article: 192483 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!
news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Curtis’ forgery? The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:44:45 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 269
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192483 alt.revisionism:690389
I planned not to take part in this discussion for some time any more.
But what I see on my screen below is shocking:
The keyboard’s to-the-right arrows should indicate my text. And, instead, I see that they indicate doctored text by Curtis in a such a manner that one might think that I have written pro-Holocaustian arguments!
Moreover, Curtis delated Faurisson text which indicates that Judges in 99.6% of the VERDICT did not bother with the homicidal gas chambers.
Since I am quite new on the Internet I might be missing something and accusing Curtis of major fraud without justification.
More expierenced Interneters, Please correct me or confirm my suspicion by email.
Thanks, Poliha
Mike Curtis wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Dear Madams and Sirs,
> >
> >The prolonged and interesting discussion about the Nuremberg Show Trials
> >nears end. I would like to conclude it under a different title by
> >translating from German a part of a recent letter by the father of the
> >modern Holocaust Revisionism Prof Robert Faurisson from France:
> >The depositions of the accused will follow at the next posting. Then
> >we will head into the defense protion of the case against Irma Grese.
> >
>
> I changed my mind and will present the depositions of the accused as
> they come up for direct testimony.
>
> Instead we will start with major Winwoods opening remarks for Josef
> Kramer. Within these remarks some concessions and admissions are made.
>
> page 150:
>
> “The gas chamber existed, there is no doubt about it. There is very
> little question about its purpose being to remove from Germany that
> part of the population which had no part in German life. The way it
> was done was by selections which took place when the transports
> arrived at the station, and later, inside the camp. These selections
> were ordered by Hoess, and later by the Kommandant who relieved
> him, and invariably they were presided over by a doctor. . . . Present
> at these selections were certain S.S. people. Large numbers of
> transports were coming in, and when thinks that a lot of these people
> knew what they were coming to Auschwitz for, I think it is fair to
> say that a good deal of control was needed when they arrived. These
> transports came into Auschwitz No. 2, Birkenau, because the gas
> chamber was situated there, and it was Kramer’s misfortune that he was
> Kommandant of that part.
>
> [ . . . ]
>
> With regard to roll-calls, Kramer, as Kommandant, did not take part in
> them, but he will tell you that a roll-call is an essential part of
> running any camp of any kind. As to ill-treatment and beatings, he
> will tell you that as he went up and down the camp he never did
> himself see any S.S. man or Kapo indiscriminately beating or
> ill-treating any of the internees. He never saw men or women members
> of the S.S. carrying sticks, rubber truncheons, or any articles of
> torture of which we have heard so much. He will tell you that S.S.
> men and women were authorized at Auschwitz to carry pistols as part of
> their uniform and for self-protection in view of the numbers of
> internees as compared with themselves.
>
> [ . . .]
>
> Now for direct-examination of Kramer on these points.
>
> Josef Kramer is questioned by his defense council, Major Winwood (pp.
> 157-158):
>
> Q: When you arrived at Auschwitz who was the Kommandant of the whole
> camp?
>
> A: Obersturmbannführer Hoess. It was a very large camp and was
> subdivided into Camp Nos. 1, 2 and 3. I was Kommandant of Camp No. 2,
> Birkenau.
>
> Q: Will you explain to the Court how it is that, in the first
> statement you made, you said the allegations referring to gas
> chambers, mass executions, whipping and cruelty were untrue?
>
> A: There are two reasons for that. The first is that in the first
> statement I was told that the prisoners alleged that these gas
> chambers were under my command, and the second and main reason was
> that Pohl, who spoke to me, took my word of honour that I should
> remain silent and should not tell anybody at all about the existence
> of the gas chambers. When I made my first statement I felt still bound
> by this word of honour which I had given. When I made the second
> statement in prison, in Celle, these persons to whom I felt bound in
> honour — Adolf Hitler and Reichsführer Himmler — were no loner alive
> and I thought then that I was no longer bound.
>
> Q: Did Kommandant Hoess say anything to you about the gas chambers?
>
> A: I received a written order from him that I had nothing to do with
> either the gas chambers or the incoming transports. The Political
> Department which was in every camp had a card index system of
> prisoners and was responsible for personal documents and for any sort
> of transports or incoming prisoners. At Auschwitz the Political
> Department was also responsible for all the selections from incoming
> transports for the gas chamber. In the crematorium the S.S. and
> prisoners — Sonderkommando — were under the command of the
> Kommandant of Auschwitz, Hoess. As the place where the transports
> generally arrived was in the middle of my own camp I was sometimes
> present at their arrival. The people who took part in supervising and
> who were responsible for the security were partly from Auschwitz No.
> 1, and partly from my own camp at Birkenau, but the selection of these
> people who had to supervise was done by the Kommandant of Auschwitz
> No. 1. The actual selections of the internees were made only by
> doctors. Those who were selected for the gas chambers went to the
> different crematoria, those who were found to be fit for work came
> into two different parts of my camp, because the idea was that in a
> few days they were to be re-transferred to different parts of German
> for work.
>
> Q: did you yourself ever take part in any selections?
>
> A: No, I never took part, nor did the other S.S. members of my staff.
> I do not know exactly who the doctors got their orders from, but I
> think it was probably from Dr. Wirtz, the senior doctor of the camp.
> The doctors lived together in Auschwitz No. I where the headquarters
> were.
>
> Q: What did you think of the whole gas chamber business?
>
> A: I asked myself, “Is it really right about these persons who go to
> the gas chambers, and whether that person who signed for the first
> time these orders will be able to answer for it?” I did not know what
> the purpose of the gas chamber was.
>
> [ . . .]
>
> Q: Were the S.S. men and women allowed by the Kommandant to carry
> weapons?
>
> A: In Auschwitz the S.S. men and women had their revolvers or guns,
> and the Audseherinnen, probably on the authority of my predecessor or
> Hoess, had permission to carry revolvers. They were not allowed to
> carry any other sort of weapon. Once when a transport arrived I saw
> that some of the S.S. men had walking-sticks, but I was afraid that
> they might use these for corporal punishment, and I gave the order
> that they were to be taken away. If any other S.S. men carried sticks
> or unauthorized weapons they did it against my orders.
>
> [ . . . ]
>
> Q: Were there dogs in Auschwitz?
>
> A: Yes, in Birkenau. There was a special guard company responsible for
> these dogs, which had nothing to do with administrative personnel, and
> they were distributed to different working squads out on agricultural
> work.
>
> [. . . ]
>
> [Now on to his cross-examination by Major Backhouse (p. 174): ]
>
> Q: I suggest to you that you went on lying about the gas chamber until
> you were shown a photograph which had been taken of one at Natzweiler,
> and that was the first time you admitted the existence of such a
> thing?
>
> A: It was not so, because between the two statements I was not asked
> any more.
>
> […]
>
> Q: What was the purpose of the Natzweiler camp?
>
> A: To let prisoners work in a quarry near by?
>
> Q: Were the prisoners not regularly supplied from that camp to
> Strasbourg for experiments?
>
> A: No.
>
> Q: Was there no gas chamber there before you arrived?
>
> A: No.
>
> Q: Was it constructed under your instructions and did you quite
> deliberately gas 80 prisoners in that gas chamber?
>
> A: Yes, on the orders of Reichsführer Himmler.
>
> […]
>
> Q: Did you force these people into the gas chamber yourself?
>
> A: Yes.
>
> Q: Did you actually put the gas in yourself and watch them inside as
> they died through a peephole you had made?
>
> A: No.
>
> […]
>
> Q: Did you not describe that the women continued to breathe for about
> half a minute?
>
> A: One could hear that. It was not necessary to observe.
>
> Q: Were you not chosen as Kommandant of Birkenau because you had
> proved yourself willing to do this sort of thing?
>
> A: No, I do not think so, because I got a special order that I had
> nothing to do with either crematoria or transports.
>
> Q: When Kommandant Pohl demanded your word of honour not to talk about
> the gas chambers, why was it that you could not tell anybody if it was
> all legally proper and above board?
>
> A: I do not know. Nothing could be said about concentration camps in
> the outside world.
>
> […]
>
> Q: Was the purpose of the gas chambers not a part of the determination
> of your Party to try and exterminate the Jewish race and all the
> intelligent people of Poland?
>
> A: I do not know.
>
> […]
>
> [Kramer is questioned by the Judge Advocate (p. 181): ]
>
> Q: When a Jew was gassed and cremated at Auschwitz was any official
> record made in the records of the country of that person’s death?
>
> A: I do not think so. All these things were done by the Political
> department of Auschwitz No. 1.
>
> [Colonel Backhouse cross-examines Mrs. Rosina Kramer, the wife of
> Joseph Kramer (p. 183): ]
>
> Q: You said that Hoess had been sent to Auschwitz for the incoming
> transports. what transports were these?
>
> A: I believe these were the transports which were destined for the gas
> chambers.
>
> Q: You knew about the gas chambers, then?
>
> A: Everybody in Auschwitz knew about them.
>
> Mike Curtis
>
> From Ambrose Bierce:
>
> CHRISTIAN, n.
> One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book
admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent
with a life of sin.
>
> CONVERSATION, n.
> A fair to the display of the minor mental commodities,
each exhibitor being too intent upon the arrangement
of his own wares to observe those of his neighbor.
>
> Please visit:
>
> Write to [email protected] for the Rat Pack LIVE
> Show at the 500 Club in Atlantic City in 1962. A 4am
> morning show! $19.95 Compact Disc called RAT PACK UNCENSORED
>
> http://www.jay-mar.com/stores.html (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.abebooks.com
> http://www.bibliofind.com (Page doesn`t exist)
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:14 EDT 1999
Article: 192491 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: How about Soviets trying Western Allies for Holocausting civilians of Cologne, Dresden and Tokyo ???Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:41 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690407 soc.culture.polish:192491
soc.culture.german:142989 soc.culture.russian:160172
Good evening,
Virtually every Japaneese city over 50,000 was firestormed in winter and spring 1945.
Dresden, Cologne contained no military industry and no military significance. While
the Germans were good at Blitzkrieg and their industrial murdering draged out for year
by spurts and starts, the Brits and the Yanks perfected Blintzing civlians.
One hundred baysdoor pop open, white smoke puffs from 1,000 phosphoruses and five
minutes later 50,000 krisp Japaneese krisp elders, mothers and children are ready to be
flipped over while embers from their paper-homes fly all over.
Then in a mid-Summer the time came for the high level mushroom of the
Einstein-Oppenheimer creation and in one zap we vaporized the for-a-split-of-a second,
blintzes of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The WW II started with the Dictators Blitzkrieg and ended with the Democracies
Blintzkrieg.
Polina Borowska
PS To the readers of these groups:
1) J. Morriss and others Holocaustians systematically change the subject of discussion
in order to forget their dillemmas and trivialize the debate. That is their strategem
for the last few months I am on the Internet.
2) Below J. orrris seems not to notice that when a murderer comitts and signle act of
charity he does not becom an angel. Because Nurmeberg Tribunal did not incorporated
the Katyn Massacre into its Verdict and did not consider Soviet evidence as credible it
does not meant that in all other decisions they were right.
On the contrary, by even considering a fake evidence for evidence and NOT screaming
bloody murder while they noticed that, they became as guilty as the Soviets. The test
of appropriatnes on the Victors was much higher then on the vanquished.
Instead, the IMTribunal swept this under the carpet and the no longer screened by the
military censors media of the Allies contributed to the continuation for years of the
cover up on the Katyn Massacre.
Nuremberg was a farce and the Show Trial from the begining to the end.
They were to discharge justice and what they discharged was continuation of
philo-Semitic propaganda with e.g. with 2,000,000 Jews steamed at Treblinka I, being
silent about exhumed mass graves of 10,000 Poles at the Treblinka II, silent about
10,000 skeletons of Ukrainian political prisoners exhumed in 1943 in Vinnytsa, they
supressed the existance of the aerial photos of all alleged massacre sites (because
they were negative) etc, etc, etc.
Instead, they gave us testimonies of survivors and testimonies of German perpetrators.
While should we believe Germans in US custody when they admitted to the crimes they did
not commit (at Katyn) in Soviet custody!!!!
John Morris wrote:
> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on Wed, 27 Oct
> 1999 17:10:54 -0400, ramcke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Very interesting thread, but I am confused, maybe someone can enlighten me.
>
> >The Soviets come to court ready to prosecute some Nazis for the Kaytn Forest
> >murders. The evidence is found to be full of holes and in fact points to the
> >Soviets as the perpetrators. The charges against the Nazis are dropped and that’s
> >the end of the story? Am I missing something here?
>
> That’s it as far as Nuremberg goes. Perhaps the Western Allies should
> have convened a separate court to the try the Soviets.
>
> Of course, getting the Soviets to agree to stand trial and to discover
> evidence against themselves was a bit of a non-starter.
>
> >What I am getting from this is that only atrocities committed by the
Nazis are
> >horrific, but crimes committed by the Allies are OK. ???????
>
> No one is saying that Katyn was okay. It was a terrible crime. It’s
> just that the one false allegation that Revisionists are able to point
> to turns out to demonstrate that the Nazi leaders actually a got a
> fair trial: they were able to call witnesses and present evidence to
> rebut the charges against them. Unfortunately for them, the vast
> majority of the charges were true.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> —
> “Fuch the world lets murder people.” — Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:14 EDT 1999
Article: 192494 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!
newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisonism,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: R. Nixon and recent Homosexual rape in Arkansas
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:26:24 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192494 soc.culture.usa:424256
In his response Mr. Mc Vay expunged – deleted the subject under
discussion and injected an onliner his personal, critical opinion,
rather then demolish arguments of his oponent or point to his oponent’s
prevarications if any.
Lack of such criticism suggests that McVay is unable to find any holes
or inaccuracies in Dr. Pierces letter, that his observations are
uncomfortable to Mc Vay, and that Dr. Pierces “dangerous” ideas better be
expunged.
Polina
I thought yo
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Good evening,
> >
> >Why should I write and post while others do it better:
> >>Clinton’s Call for “Tolerance”
> >>by Dr. William Pierce
>
> Why are we not surprised to see you pimping for the American Nazi
> William Pierce, and his National Alliance?
>
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/national-alliance …Broken link the
> National Alliance, for those unfamiliar with them, is a organization
> dedicated to the proposition that white folks are so stupid that they
> can’d think for themselves, govern themselves, or acquire and wisely
> invest capital.
>
> Right up “Polin’s” anti-Jewish alley, I’d say.
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:15 EDT 1999
Article: 192497 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:40:46 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690421 soc.culture.polish:192497
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Sara’s Holocasutian responses are usually embarassingly irrational. Thus
> >I do not
> >bother to respond to them. However she has a better day today in a
> >different field
> >than the Holocaust and also she errs she deserves response:
>
> Interesting comment from someone who proved that the Nuremberg
> Tribunal was not a show trial by trying to show that it was…. the
> same self-styled “revisionist” (in your dreams) that claimed expertise
> with respect to the Nuremberg Tribunal but finally admitted she hadn’t
> read the transcripts.
>
> Whadda maroon.
In my title I stated disparagingly Who cares about Nuremberg. In text I
clearly indicated that I am not and do not plan to be an expert on this Show
Trial, that its analysis might be considered as fun and relaxation but only
draws away from the essential lack of physical evidence to confirm the
industrial murder of Jews.
If Germans in Soviet custody admited to the massacre at Katyn of 10,000 Poles
(actually only 4,500 POW’s were shot at Katyn the rest in the then still
secret Kharkiv and Miednoje and other locations) one must consider, until
proven otherwise, that Germans in western custody were tortured equally.
Polina
PS It seems that in last two years while seen the wilting of the Holocaust
you try to hang your hat on the Nuremberg’s authority. It will not carry
you for long. Imprisonment of revisionists will make things worse.
Is there any honorable way out for you from this Holocasutian mess?
Somehow you sneaked out of the myth of Massada without rasing to much waves.
Perhaps you should use it as a guide.
You somehow got out of the lies of the First World Word holocaust of the
6,000,000 Jews and 800,000 Jewish children in Poland and Ukraine “dying due
to the lust for Jewish blood” being incierated by the Poles in Lemberg in
synagoges 1,100 souls at one clip (The New York Times, Novemger 30 1918).
Perhaps this is a good precedence and a lesson how to do it this time.
We Poles also have to learn how to demytholgize our history from
myrtyrolgical myths and hatereds.
Poolina
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> “What I say does not make it true.” Matt Giwer, In his cups.
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt Broken link
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:15 EDT 1999
Article: 192501 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!
supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Zyklon B skirted by Seweryna>>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:36:25 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690437 soc.culture.polish:192501
Dear Mr Mc Vay
I do not know how it works in Canad where you apparently reside.
In US it is immaterial what was said in court during trial. It is material and it is
The Truth what is contained in the Judgement. Moreover the Judgement becames The Law
and the Precedent, unless the judgement is overturned by a higher court.
Thus if a Jury decides and Judge Wise in Queens NY writes it in a valid VErdict that
Joe Blow kileed Jane Doe, that it the Truth and that is the Law.
There is no other way out of this determination unless the Appelatte Court of the New
York STate in Albany about six Superwise Justices say the Queens’ Judge conducted
unfair trial and misled the Jury.
The same practice applies to the US Federal Courts. Unless the US Appelate Circuit
Court or the US Supreme Court overrules the lower court the trial court Verdict stays
as THE LAW and THE TRUTH.
I think I am correct to applies these rules to the Nurmberg Tribunals. Since there
was no Appelate or Supreme Tribunal organized, the Nuremberg Verdict will stand for
ever as the Truth and The Law.
For the reason of the American practice, the rulings of the Nuremberg Tribunals have
been into the French so called Faurisson-Lex or anti-Revisionist Gouot Law.
Thus if Prof Faurisson is correct and the French Verdict of 84,000 words refers
obliquely and unclearly to the homicidal gas chambers in about 540 words or conversly
it discusses the epiphenomenal homicidal gas chambers in 0.62% of its lenght, it is
wrong for you and ILLEGAL, and Revisionist to keep posting after posting about
Treblinka or the gas Chambers of Auschwitz.
If the INternational Justices decreed in their Verdict that only 0.62% of their time
and attention should be directed to this mniscule margin of the Nazi crimes against
the humanity, you should conform to this Law and forget about the gas chambers.
You do not want to do anything illegal Mr Mc Vay? Do you?
On the other hand Generals Eisenhower and De Gall and PM Churchill should be
posthumosly reprimanded for illegally “forgeting” completely to include the mention
about the gas chambers in their memoires. When they wrote their volumes it was The
Law to talk in about 0.62% of their text about the gas chambers.
Hell, these fellows were so busy during the WW II that the chambers skipped their
minds. Nor they bothered to bomb them, perhaps because the mind of the Fat Winston
invented them against the evil Huns.
It is also funny that the survivors who anxiously waited in vain for them for years
at the death camps forgot about them right after the completion of the Nuremberg
Trials.
And a Polish Jewess, Seweryna Szmaglewska who was first survivor to finish her
ggovernmental bestseller (so far 52printigs) The Somke over the Birkenau on July 7
1945, hardly mentioned the gas chambers at all. Dozens of month went by before Dr
Nyszli (it is sure the book was not written by a pathologist) … whoever or whatever
he was completed his opus about the dr Mengele in response to the Nurember trial.
And then another hiatus until the US refused to increase the aid to Israel and the
responsive instant Eichmann capture and another show trial followed by the invention
[re] introduction of the term of the holocaust followed by the flood of
Holocaustiana.
I think I know what you will find wrong with this post and how you will change the
subject to interject the damage control
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Or you are consider Nuremberg prosecutors STUPID? You, a nobody, a legal and
> >forensic layman, today know that the STEAMING story of 2,000,000 was false. How
> >come the multitueds of professionals at Nurembers could not figure it out?
>
> They did figure it out – that’s why it does not appear in the
> Judgment.
> <PLONK>
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:15 EDT 1999
Article: 192530 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.thuntek.net!news1.crl.com!nntp1.crl.com!
howland.erols.net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe]
Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:49:49 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192530 soc.culture.ukrainian:59899
alt.revisionism:690485
Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday’s posting,
Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the
memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine.
I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a
Pole.
Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals
while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian
extrqavaganza in the NYC.
Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet
press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders
and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the
numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in
Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon
after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid
the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even
more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the
eternal money changers.
Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes
starved, where are their mass graves.
Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early
1930’s. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or
and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an
“English” word in the Collegiate Webster’s Dictionary) of “Zelena Ukraina”
Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both.
Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone
book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would
provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of
inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily
recognizible Ukrainian surnames.
Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland’s lands after the
WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and
surnames like the parents of our President.
My “pro-Ukrainian” post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm
among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all
Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my
revisonist skull.
With revisionist greetings,
Polina Borowska
[email protected] wrote:
> Begin forwarded message:
> Subject: Famine March Update
>
> The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will
> be a
> procession to mourn and remember the 7 – 10 million Ukrainians that
> perished
> as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble
> at
> 10:00am at St. George’s (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All
> Saints
> Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession
> departs for
> St. Patrick’s Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will
> be a
> mass and prayers at St. Patrick’s (on 5th Ave.)
>
> It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be
> attending
> this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting
> people
> to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in
> your
> area.
>
> Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as
> many
> of the Ukes to join in on this. – Read on and pass it on…
>
> Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested.
> ————————————————————————
> Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2
> Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French.
> Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.egroups.com – Simplifying group communications
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:15 EDT 1999
Article: 192546 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.idt.net!
news.stealth.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist
>>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:26:29 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690514 soc.culture.polish:192546
soc.culture.ukrainian:59908 soc.culture.german:143019
soc.culture.russian:160249
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > Dear Mr Mc Vay,
>
> > In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> > Resistance Dec. 1996)
>
> There is no such “era.” The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the
> lunatic fringe.
For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical
publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the
USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not
revisionists.
> > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> > during Nuremberg trials?
>
> Anybody interested in the history of the period.
>
> But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness
> whose testimony was “extorted”
The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book
that he was tortured.
> or a signle document named in the analysis
> of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic.
The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests
mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the
rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of
Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic
Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was
expression of ethnic but not religeous war.
Polina
thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora
of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka
[II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric and smelly but
not secret or ‘exterminationist’ establishment
–YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:16 EDT 1999
Article: 192564 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
Subject: Re:STecko links up with the Jews?? [central-europe] No Subject
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:55:52 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192564 soc.culture.ukrainian:59912
Howoooo Howuuu Halloween in action.
I wrote about Jaroslawa Stecko a week ago not hearing about her for a year
and her apparition is know back with us in the american Haloween seson.
In my estimation Stecko is quite primitve woman who rides on the fame of her
late husband perhaps also Jaroslaw STecko who prolcaimed ukrainian authonomy
on July 1, 1941 in Lviv and within eleven days ended in Nazi concenteratrion
camp for this aduacity.
I watched doings of Stecko while she lived in US and even met with her once
where she although distrustful and guarding herself itellectually while
meeting a nationalist Pole-ess she could not hide her paranoid fear of Jews
and Jewery.
She also spoke like an political opportunist as well as her young American
born banderite leutenants. Jaroslawa was fat and jovial in apperance and
attempted to veer off uncomfortable subjecst by diverting attention to
slavic hospitality and food and snacks prepared for her consumption.
I suspect that this candidate for the Ukrainan presidency will sooner or
later will discover that he is Jewish if he has not done so already and for
this reason opportunistic Jaroslav unwillingly supports him.
She does also not shirnk from lying by omission. Her husband with her help
penned autobiography about 30 years ego entitled June 30, 1941.
While Wiesenthal presently claims that Ukes murdered in cold blood on the
streets of Lwow 19,000 between July 1 and July 5 1941, Stecko did not
described a single Jewish casualty (since there was most likely none).
When I pointed to her that overt anti-Ukrainianite our Grot-Rovecki reporte
via radiogram to London on August 15 that none of the Jews died during entry
of Germans into Lviv she even then did not want discuss the matter.
Was the branch of banderite movements she led also on the payrol of CIA like
the nearly overtly paid branch of banderities reprsented by the Journal
Suczasnist I think edited by prof Hunchak of Rutrhgers Univ??
I dobut that the rolly-polly Jaroslava STecko is or was ever able to any
murders. She was too cowardly to do so.
However I have to hand it to her that despite her obesity and advanced age
she is still able to be politically active. About 15-20 years ago I was
sure she will drop dead soon of a heart attack. But I guess, we Slavic
women know to how (genetically) carry our heavy weight. My late husband’s
elderly mother always round is still around and God bless her.
I have no proof, but if I would be a leader of CIA I would salary both
branches in order to have them check on each other.
Polina,
PS Prediction: hear the howling of Ukrainians after I post this on their
site and the searing silence of my Polish detractors on the
soc.culture.polish labeling me as Messers Kuras, Drgan, Pawlikowski, fake
Pole, and or hitlerite slut while american Holocaustians claim that I am an
American who fakes pigding English and pretend to be fake Pole.
I think that during Hallowween season I have right to pretend to be even a
wherewolferin.
I am posting
Klaudiusz Wesolek wrote:
> POLINA – WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE FOLLOWING NEWS
>
> UKRAINIAN NATIONALISTS TO SUPPORT FORMER
> KGB GENERAL
> Yaroslava Stetsko, leader of the Congress of Ukrainian
> Nationalists, said in Lviv on 26 October that her party will support
> Yevhen Marchuk’s presidential bid. Stetsko added that this was a
> difficult decision for her organization, which had been persecuted
> by the KGB in the past. General Yevhen Marchuk was the
> Ukrainian SSR’s KGB first deputy chairman in 1990 and chief of
> the Security Service in independent Ukraine from1991-1994. JM_____________________________________________________
> ————————————————————————
> Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2
> Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French.
> Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.egroups.com – Simplifying group communications
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:16 EDT 1999
Article: 192565 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture,ukrainian,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Hahaha Genocide by banderivtsi
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:05:40 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192565 soc.culture.russian:160255
Dear Klaudiusz,
Tell me where did you see that plan of GENOCIDE, be quick and real.
So why in the antology of their UPA about 140 songs about 40% of them refer
to byty moskala to beat the moscovties and bolsheviks, and only 20 % refer
to Poles who and Germans who occupied their lands and hear hear only
infrequently to the Jewish bolsheviks. I guess they liked the vodka sold to
their grand parents and parents by the Jews.
I think that ukrainian genocidal propoaganda against the Ppoles should be
reflected in thiers get-at-them songs. Mostly the sang about homeland,
their beloved girlfriends they left in the villages etc.
I am still hounding for the anthology of the partisan songs of the Home
Army, especially of the units which operated in Kresy. Could you help?????
Or any of the Polish patriots could help??
And how about the Jewish partrisan songs (hehehehehe)
Excuse my haloween humor
Polina
[email protected] wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe/?start=782
> > I have a serious doubts that banderivtsy were murderers or more of a
> murders
> > than Armia Krajowa. I think the best term for both of them would be
> Freedom
> > Fighters.
>
> You use “half-truth” to manipulate the facts. Single examples of
> crimes
> on civilians happened among “Bulbovtsy”,”Melnykivtsi”, SS-Galizien and
> on the other hand – NSZ and Armia Krajowa. But what was done by
> “banderivsty” (OUN-B)
> with Jews during the whole war and with Poles in 1943-44 was a PLANNED
> GENOCIDE. But, of course such actions were NOT done AFTER the war as
> some historians lie to justify “Akcja Wisla”.
> > Bunderivtsy executed some of their UKRAINIAN opponents THE SAME WAY
> Armia
> > Krajowa executed their Polish opponents or traitors, or those who
> sold out
> > hidden Jews to Germans (about 140 sentences were issued on such POLISH
> > individuals.
>
> But they just executed orders sentenced by underground courts. Of
> course it was no normal judicial procedure, but they just condemned
> people who were individually found guilty.
> > Dear Klaudiusz, do you think that if Goloembiewski would consider
> banderivtsi as
> > murderers he woudl fight the Free Poland’s last battle with them not
> in hand to
> > hand combat but in arm to arm attack on the Soviet NKVD-MVD???
>
> Banderivtsy were not identical with UPA (although they took the
> political control of it in 1943-44). And generally I use the term
> banderivtsy only for OUN-B members, not to all nationally-oriented
> Ukrainians, what was done by soviet propaganda and continued by
> banderivsty.
> regards
>
> Klaudi
> ————————————————————————
> Click on Instant Credit Card Approval at
> http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1274
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe
> http://www.egroups.com – Simplifying group communications
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:16 EDT 1999
Article: 192566 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!colt.net!
newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: “It is interesting” or “bulshit” [central-europe]
Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist??
Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:14:07 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192566
Dear Klaudiusz.
I like you in general.
Still I will level a barb at you. You can not decide if I am interesting or
bullsiht and in post below claim both. That is called ambivalency in
psychiatry and constitutes one of the signs of sreious mental sickness. Thus
I should refer you to a psychiatrist, but I will NOT.
You are siimlpy growing up revisionistically. But the scintillas of
reasonable historical mentation are still being expunged by the ingrained
polish mini-holocaustianity in your brain.
Another year or two of Polina Borowska that fake female, Pole, Ukrianian and
the hitlerite slut and we will be observing the reverse, your revisionist
logic will be expunging the scintillas of the national martyrological group
fantasies
Polina
[email protected] wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe/?start=783
> > Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday’s
> posting,
> > Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the
> > memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine.
>
> Sorry, Polina, but what You write is bullshit….
> That is ineresting. Attacks on Hitler usually are not called
> “anti-German”,
> although Hitler was supported by exceeding majority of Germans and
> banderivtsy were supported by a little minority of Ukrainians. The
> problem is that they are popular among Ukrainian diaspora….
> So Ukrainian diaspora, and You Polina, are similar to ZIONISTS, who
> call “antisemite” everybody who criticize Michnik, rabin Weiss etc…
> Think about it and don’t just tell slogans.
> regards
>
> Klaudiusz
>
> ————————————————————————
> Java or juggling?. Everybody learns something at Learn2.com. Where
> you’ll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and
> useful tips for everyday life. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/964
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.egroups.com – Simplifying group communications
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:17 EDT 1999
Article: 192575 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!WCG!cyclone.i1.net!news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed.icl.net!
newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Curtis’ forgery? The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:46:59 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192575 alt.revisionism:690564
As most ot the times your response is not responsive to the question
presented in the title and the text and you respond with your unrelated
sophistries.
I have written before and again that I will look at proceedings just for fun
of it and will study the Verdict carefully as this is the final word. All
testimonies are invalid unless they support the Verdict in any court and the
Verdict is the Law and the Law asigned only 0.62% of importance to the today
preeminent topic of the homicidal gas chambers. I am still awating from Dr,
Faurisson since you did not respond to the Challange how many words are
dealing in THE Verdict with the delousing and disinfestation of the camp and
the prisoners.
Returning to the original question why my text reposted by Curtis distorts
180 degrees my original statement.???
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >More expierenced Interneters, Please correct me or confirm my suspicion
> >by email.
>
> Suspicion confirmed. You haven’t a foggy notion what transpired during
> the Tribunal, because, by your own admission, you have not read the
> transcripts, nor have you read the books of documents.
>
> In short, you are an ignorant loudmouth where Nuremberg is concerned.
>
> Glad I could be of help.
>
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> “What I say does not make it true.” Matt Giwer, In his cups.
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt Broken link
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:17 EDT 1999
Article: 192580 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!
remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: How the Nazi Katyn Perpetrators were executed by the soviets…
>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:01:51 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690570 soc.culture.polish:192580
soc.culture.german:143034 soc.culture.russian:160260
Sara, you are an embarassment to your late father and all erudite Jews. But do
not worry. We have quite a few comuterized but ignorant Poles.
Since I can not possibly convince you and I should not be considered as credible
on this matters, I suggest that you seek confirmation at your Jewish USHMM and
Resarch Institute that 12 Gerrmans were tried and publically hanged for the Katyn
crime and assortment of other accusations on January 29, 1945 in the presence of
about 20,000 shivering Lenigraders. The condemned were brought under trhe
gallows in troikas on the beds of open lorries.
The lorries suddendly stopped under the gallows, the condemned who were sitting
with their hands tied behind their backs on benches facing the crowd with their
backs to the gallows were ordered to raise. Virtually instantly hangman loops
were thrown over their necks and litterally a seconds later all the four lorries
reved their engines and tore away in the cloud of steamy exhaust from under the
gallows.
As the steam quickly faded in the freezing air, one could see the Germans still
dangling as twelve pendulums.
While soviets (“Russians”) are accused of sadism and barbarism I disagree. They
developed the methods of execution to perfect humanity or better said
humaneness. Also it should be said that the designers of the executions were us
much ethnic Russian as the “Russian” maffiosos in the USA with names like Dymitri
Rubinstein, Victor Glassman or Efim Salzman.
SAra, prove me wrong via USHMM and reports from Pravda and the silent newsreel
taken by the Sovfilm during the execution and in the courtroom.
Polina
Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> >>
> >> Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some
> >> >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg.
> >> >They were integral part of the prosecuting
> >> >team of the IMT. It was that international
> >> >prosecuting team who made the Katyn
> >> >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was
> >> >the same team who offered bogus Soviet
> >> >documents as evidence. By doing it, the
> >> >Western prosecutors not only compromised
> >> >their professional integrity; they commited a
> >> >criminal offence.
> >>
> >> Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted?
> >
> >I suppose so. Wasn’t it?
> >
> >> Prosecution
> >> teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves
> >> unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are
> >> you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful
> >> in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal
> >> system?
> >
> >The Western prosecutors have knowingly
> >introduced false Soviet declaration as
> >evidence. That is a criminal offence.
> >
> >> As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course)
> >> would be pleased.
> >
> >I am not sure how pleased were the seven or
> >nine Germans who were hanged for that
> >crime.
>
> Not a single Nazi was hanged for that crime.
>
> Sara
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:21 EDT 1999
Article: 142985 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:16:47 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690366 soc.culture.polish:192475
soc.culture.german:142985 soc.culture.russian:160161
Sara Salzman wrote:
> “Polina”
>
> My father wrote the definitive textbook on Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
>
> Your definitions are completely incorrect. And even before the advent of
> medication for OCD, it was successfully treated through psychoanalysis.
Your father had unique skills, presently it is largely uncurable. Here and
there careere oriented optimistic results are reported, cautiously.
Polina
> I suppose your research on OCD is about as complete as your research pon
> the IMT.
>
> “Polina,” you should be ashamed of yourself for pretending to be
> knowledgeable about subjects that you are so obviously ignorant of.
>
> You’re only embarassing yourself and looking foolish.
>
> Sara
>
> In article <[email protected]>, polin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >John Talmudicaly splits hair and veers of the principal of the matter.
> >
> >The fact that Justice Jacson lowered himself to using dirty tricks on Spear
> >with vaporisation while he had or should have abandance of uncontrovertible
> >evidence is a great embarassment to this entire [Show] Trial.
> >
> >John also snipped out my questions how Jackson arrived at such “indirect”
> >in the first place e.g. prevarication of Jackson’s or survisor’s
> >
> >Who cares about Nurember?? I do not. The Sulzberger’s New York Times did
> >not even care about Auschwitz for years. But about that subject in the
> >next posting.
> >
> >Polina,
> >
> >PS Some readers asked me in e-mail how come that I do not react to
> >invectives slurs personals and gutter language of my holocaustian
> >opponents.
> >
> >My response is the following.
> >
> >1) I know that I will never convince about anything Mr Morris Drs Keren and
> >Gorski a.k.a ORAC or Yale or Philps or even K. Mc Vay. HOwever,
> >
> >2) I use them as convenient sounding board and use their frequently
> >irrational and uncivil responses as a forum
> >
> >3) I am not afraid that by stating that I will lose them. They are
> >primarlily compulsive-obsessive arguers and only secondarily
> >Holocasutians. No reason, NOTHING will stop compulsive-obsessive
> >individual. There are no effective therapies known for this condition or a
> >trait.
> >
> >4) HOw do I know that they are compulsive obsessive? Because they do not
> >heed the Holocaustianity party line which forbids debate with Revisionist
> >and because of their persistance and lack of rationality and reason in
> >their responses.
> >
> >5) How do I know that I am not compulsive-obsessive [CO] myself?
> >
> >a) CO restrict themself to one subject be it Holocaustianity or brushing
> >theeth before and after every meal or even drink, or washing their hands 66
> >times a day before and after opening the refrigerator. MOreover CO could
> >not stop their rituals or activity.
> >
> >You will notice that I post on various subjects and with temporary hiatuses
> >(hiati ?? in Latin?) when I am busy with every day matters. For me posting
> >on the net is an educational entertainment.
> >
> >b) virtually all CO are pedantic even in spelling and I am to lazy to
> >bother to do the spell check since I learned that you will read me anyway
> >atrocious errors in spelling and syntax as well as occasional inaccuracies
> >in the historical details.
> >
> >Greetings to all from Polina
> >even to my oponents
> >John Morris wrote:
> >
> >> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on 25 Oct 1999 19:06:21
> >> GMT, [email protected] (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >> >polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>Astonishing!
> >>
> >> >The only “astonishing” item here is your apparently deliberate attempt
> >> >to suggest that unproven information from the Indictment had any
> >> >bearing upon the Judgment.
> >>
> >> I must demur. Using the keywords “Auschwitz,” “atomic,” and
> >> “experiment,” I am unable to find any reference in the Nuremberg
> >> indictments to an experiment to vaporize Jews at Auschwitz with atomic
> >> weapons.
> >>
> >> It is plain that Jackson’s question–the sole reference in the entire
> >> proceedings–was merely an indirection to induce Speer to testify
> >> about rumours which the Nazis employed to prolong the war.
> >>
> >> You are right that there is no question whether Jackson attempted to
> >> prove that such an experiment took place. He did not.
> >>
> >> This thread has become a mere demonstration of Mr. Dragan’s
> >> credulousness when dealing with information from Revisionist web
> >> pages.
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >> John Morris <[email protected]>
> >> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> >> —
> >> “Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens.
> >> They are members of Judeosapiens.” Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999.
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:22 EDT 1999
Article: 142989 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: How about Soviets trying Western Allies for Holocausting civilians of Cologne, Dresden and Tokyo ???Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:18:41 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690407 soc.culture.polish:192491
soc.culture.german:142989 soc.culture.russian:160172
Good evening,
Virtually every Japaneese city over 50,000 was firestormed in winter and spring 1945.
Dresden, Cologne contained no military industry and no military significance. While
the Germans were good at Blitzkrieg and their industrial murdering draged out for year
by spurts and starts, the Brits and the Yanks perfected Blintzing civlians.
One hundred baysdoor pop open, white smoke puffs from 1,000 phosphoruses and five
minutes later 50,000 krisp Japaneese krisp elders, mothers and children are ready to be
flipped over while embers from their paper-homes fly all over.
Then in a mid-Summer the time came for the high level mushroom of the
Einstein-Oppenheimer creation and in one zap we vaporized the for-a-split-of-a second,
blintzes of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
The WW II started with the Dictators Blitzkrieg and ended with the Democracies
Blintzkrieg.
Polina Borowska
PS To the readers of these groups:
1) J. Morriss and others Holocaustians systematically change the subject of discussion
in order to forget their dillemmas and trivialize the debate. That is their strategem
for the last few months I am on the Internet.
2) Below J. orrris seems not to notice that when a murderer comitts and signle act of
charity he does not becom an angel. Because Nurmeberg Tribunal did not incorporated
the Katyn Massacre into its Verdict and did not consider Soviet evidence as credible it
does not meant that in all other decisions they were right.
On the contrary, by even considering a fake evidence for evidence and NOT screaming
bloody murder while they noticed that, they became as guilty as the Soviets. The test
of appropriatnes on the Victors was much higher then on the vanquished.
Instead, the IMTribunal swept this under the carpet and the no longer screened by the
military censors media of the Allies contributed to the continuation for years of the
cover up on the Katyn Massacre.
Nuremberg was a farce and the Show Trial from the begining to the end.
They were to discharge justice and what they discharged was continuation of
philo-Semitic propaganda with e.g. with 2,000,000 Jews steamed at Treblinka I, being
silent about exhumed mass graves of 10,000 Poles at the Treblinka II, silent about
10,000 skeletons of Ukrainian political prisoners exhumed in 1943 in Vinnytsa, they
supressed the existance of the aerial photos of all alleged massacre sites (because
they were negative) etc, etc, etc.
Instead, they gave us testimonies of survivors and testimonies of German perpetrators.
While should we believe Germans in US custody when they admitted to the crimes they did
not commit (at Katyn) in Soviet custody!!!!
John Morris wrote:
> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on Wed, 27 Oct
> 1999 17:10:54 -0400, ramcke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Very interesting thread, but I am confused, maybe someone can enlighten me.
>
> >The Soviets come to court ready to prosecute some Nazis for the Kaytn Forest
> >murders. The evidence is found to be full of holes and in fact points to the
> >Soviets as the perpetrators. The charges against the Nazis are dropped and that’s
> >the end of the story? Am I missing something here?
>
> That’s it as far as Nuremberg goes. Perhaps the Western Allies should
> have convened a separate court to the try the Soviets.
>
> Of course, getting the Soviets to agree to stand trial and to discover
> evidence against themselves was a bit of a non-starter.
>
> >What I am getting from this is that only atrocities committed by the Nazis are
> >horrific, but crimes committed by the Allies are OK. ???????
>
> No one is saying that Katyn was okay. It was a terrible crime. It’s
> just that the one false allegation that Revisionists are able to point
> to turns out to demonstrate that the Nazi leaders actually a got a
> fair trial: they were able to call witnesses and present evidence to
> rebut the charges against them. Unfortunately for them, the vast
> majority of the charges were true.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> —
> “Fuch the world lets murder people.” — Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:22 EDT 1999
Article: 143019 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.idt.net!
news.stealth.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist
>>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:26:29 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <380[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690514 soc.culture.polish:192546
soc.culture.ukrainian:59908 soc.culture.german:143019
soc.culture.russian:160249
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> polin <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > Dear Mr Mc Vay,
>
> > In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> > Resistance Dec. 1996)
>
> There is no such “era.” The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the
> lunatic fringe.
For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical
publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the
USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not
revisionists.
> > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> > during Nuremberg trials?
>
> Anybody interested in the history of the period.
>
> But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness
> whose testimony was “extorted”
The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book
that he was tortured.
> or a signle document named in the analysis
> of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic.
The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests
mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the
rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of
Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic
Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was
expression of ethnic but not religeous war.
Polina
thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora
of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka
[II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric and smelly but
not secret or ‘exterminationist’ establishment
> –YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:21:22 EDT 1999
Article: 143034 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: How the Nazi Katyn Perpetrators were executed by the soviets…>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:01:51 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690570 soc.culture.polish:192580 soc.culture.german:143034 soc.culture.russian:160260
Sara, you are an embarassment to your late father and all erudite Jews. But do
not worry. We have quite a few comuterized but ignorant Poles.
Since I can not possibly convince you and I should not be considered as credible
on this matters, I suggest that you seek confirmation at your Jewish USHMM and
Resarch Institute that 12 Gerrmans were tried and publically hanged for the Katyn
crime and assortment of other accusations on January 29, 1945 in the presence of
about 20,000 shivering Lenigraders. The condemned were brought under trhe
gallows in troikas on the beds of open lorries.
The lorries suddendly stopped under the gallows, the condemned who were sitting
with their hands tied behind their backs on benches facing the crowd with their
backs to the gallows were ordered to raise. Virtually instantly hangman loops
were thrown over their necks and litterally a seconds later all the four lorries
reved their engines and tore away in the cloud of steamy exhaust from under the
gallows.
As the steam quickly faded in the freezing air, one could see the Germans still
dangling as twelve pendulums.
While soviets (“Russians”) are accused of sadism and barbarism I disagree. They
developed the methods of execution to perfect humanity or better said
humaneness. Also it should be said that the designers of the executions were us
much ethnic Russian as the “Russian” maffiosos in the USA with names like Dymitri
Rubinstein, Victor Glassman or Efim Salzman.
SAra, prove me wrong via USHMM and reports from Pravda and the silent newsreel
taken by the Sovfilm during the execution and in the courtroom.
Polina
Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> >>
> >> Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some
> >> >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg.
> >> >They were integral part of the prosecuting
> >> >team of the IMT. It was that international
> >> >prosecuting team who made the Katyn
> >> >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was
> >> >the same team who offered bogus Soviet
> >> >documents as evidence. By doing it, the
> >> >Western prosecutors not only compromised
> >> >their professional integrity; they commited a
> >> >criminal offence.
> >>
> >> Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted?
> >
> >I suppose so. Wasn’t it?
> >
> >> Prosecution
> >> teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves
> >> unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are
> >> you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful
> >> in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal
> >> system?
> >
> >The Western prosecutors have knowingly
> >introduced false Soviet declaration as
> >evidence. That is a criminal offence.
> >
> >> As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course)
> >> would be pleased.
> >
> >I am not sure how pleased were the seven or
> >nine Germans who were hanged for that
> >crime.
>
> Not a single Nazi was hanged for that crime.
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “I am an agitator, and an agitator is the center
> post in a washing machine that gets the dirt out.”
> Jim Hightower
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:59:12 EDT 1999
Article: 690639 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!WCG!nntp.cadvision.com!news.idt.net!news.stealth.net!
nntp.teliafi.net!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsinternetskywayteltow!
News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-x.support.nl!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!
supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionists, bloody-minded, reprehensible racists
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:31:36 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690639
Dear Dr. Keren,
I am not surprised that among others I am called Ukrainian. Public
opinion polls even in today’s Poland show that Ukrainians are most
detested ethnic in our country, far more then the Germans who allegedly
killed 3,000,000 Poles and Polish 3,000,000 Jews.
Calling someone in Poland Ukrainian is like calling someone anti-Semite
or racist in the USA. This calumny is perenially cast on anyone who is
ones strong oponent.
Majority of Poles can not comprehend that being revisonist does not =
Ukrainianism.
Professor Ratiajczak of Opole presently on trial is undobtedly an
Ukrainian for most primitive Poles especially that he was born on
formerly German land for a several centuries.
Instyutut Radical Nationalism in Warsaw and Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski
the leading historical revisionist force in Poland are called Neo=Nazis
and skin heads while these groups frequently are hired to beat us up.
Soon they will be called Banderites an Ukrainian nationalists who fought
for their independence during WWII and until 1953, yes some units
survived and were active until 1953.
Poolina
Daniel Keren wrote:
> [Followup-To: alt.revisionism]
>
> John Morris <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> # Candide <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ## However, I suppose it would be fair to say
> ## that I do detest a certain Ukrainian asshole
> ## desperately trying to pass for a Pole.
>
> # Goodness! Tell us more.
>
> Hmm. Let me add my 2 cents. When I was in the Auschwitz museum, one
> of the workers there told me that “The Polish Historical Society”
> consists of an Ukrainian guy, who is pretending to be a Pole, for
> some reason.
>
> It seems other people are aware of this, and one Polish poster wrote
> that “polin” is posting with an Ukrainian accent (probably with
> reference to the names of cities, such as Kiev).
>
> I bet that in his next reincarnation, he’ll claim he’s a Jew! 🙂
>
> -Danny Keren.
From [email protected] Sat Oct 30 16:43:40 EDT 1999
Article: 690718 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:05:27 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690718 soc.culture.polish:192633
Orac wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, polin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Sara’s Holocasutian responses are usually embarassingly irrational. Thus
> I do not
> > bother to respond to them. However she has a better day today in a
> different field
> > than the Holocaust and also she errs she deserves response:
> >
> > Your level of ignorance of psychiatry is acceptable as you are partially
> correct.
> > However you are either ingnorant or malicious that you withold
> information that
> > Tardive Dyskinesia sometimes occurs after a few dozes of thorazine like
> drugs and
> > most of the time is permanent.
> >
> > Please do not take my word for that. The largest (on thousands of
> patients) study
> > of tardive dyskinesia and its natrual history and frequency has been
> conducted by a
> > Jewish doctor at the Yale School of Medicine a few years ago. I spoke
> with him
> > personally about this matter about three years ago. I do not remember
> his name
> > right now but call Dept of Psychiatry at the Yale Med School and they
> will give you
> > his name. Or try tardive dyskinesia on search engine but you will
> probably get
> > thousands references.
>
> Please cite the reference, including journal name, year, volume, and page
> number in which this study appeared, so that I could read and judge for
> myself if I so desired.
Dear Dr Orac,
I am not in medical profession but you are. If you can not afford few dimes
and a phone call to Yale’s School of Medicine Dept of Psychiatry, or chek it
in the Index Mecicus I start to doubt you graduated from any medical school.
I am not in Queens presently and am unable to give you this citation. But one
day I will cite from it verbatim to embarass you. I think I will get hold of
that file on Monday.
Polina
What a doctors they educate today! Quacks? Incidentally which med school you
attended??
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
From [email protected] Sat Oct 30 16:43:41 EDT 1999
Article: 690723 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.abs.net!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: How about Soviets trying Western Allies for Holocausting civilians
of Cologne, Dresden and Tokyo ???Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:21:04 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 243
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690723 soc.culture.polish:192635
Dear Mr Morris,
You know how to use scanners, one I do not have, and list Katyn references. But I would
like to bring to the attention of the readers that the first book about Auschwitz was
completed within five months and published instantly by only public outcry of American
Polonia brought the hushed up by the American Jewmedia matter of Katyn forth and only as
late as 1952 i.e. nearly ten years after its disection by the Nazis.
Now since Mr Morris brought the 1952 Congressional Proceeding up, in fairness, I give him a
warning that I will cite what American Jews and organizations had to say at that time about
their “extermination’. I can assure you that this avoved Holocaustian will be CRESTFALLEN.
Incidentally, during these Proceedings and Hearings, a young Patrick Buchannan got
interested in Katyn and since he became a life long conservative.
For the same reason P. Buchanan wrote several pro-Polish columns about Katyn and Auschwitz
scandals.
Polina
John Morris wrote:
> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on Thu, 28 Oct
> 1999 23:18:41 -0400, polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Good evening,
>
> [The Polina Historical Society of One (PHSO) loses on Katyn and plays
> the Dresden card]
>
> >The WW II started with the Dictators Blitzkrieg and ended with the Democracies
> >Blintzkrieg.
>
> Well, I guess that just about says it all.
>
> >PS To the readers of these groups:
>
> >1) J. Morriss and others Holocaustians systematically change the subject of discussion
> >in order to forget their dillemmas and trivialize the debate. That is their strategem
> >for the last few months I am on the Internet.
>
> I’m sorry. What kind of drugs are you on? You’re the one who can’t
> make up his mind what facts he wants us to believe. You’re the one
> who keeps changing the subject line and the topic of conversation.
> You’re the one who brought up Nuremberg and now wants to avoid talking
> about it. And you’re the one who trivializes the debate by trying on
> every irrelevant Revisionist gambit and fails to make a case.
>
> Lastly, it is *you* who trivializes the horror of Dresden with your
> cheap insinuations that “Jews” were behind it all. “Blintzkrieg”
> indeed. You are no better than the Nazis you defend.
>
> >2) Below J. orrris seems not to notice that when a murderer comitts and signle act of
> >charity he does not becom an angel. Because Nurmeberg Tribunal did not incorporated
> >the Katyn Massacre into its Verdict and did not consider Soviet evidence as credible it
> >does not meant that in all other decisions they were right.
>
> It does not mean that all their other decisions were right. But, as
> you now seem to admit, the IMT’s decision on Katyn *was* correct. If
> you wish to claim that the IMT was a show trial and that their
> decisions were wrong, then you must produce examples of wrong
> decisions.
>
> So far, you have failed completely.
>
> >On the contrary, by even considering a fake evidence for evidence and NOT screaming
> >bloody murder while they noticed that, they became as guilty as the Soviets. The test
> >of appropriatnes on the Victors was much higher then on the vanquished.
>
> The Western prosecutors *did* scream bloody murder and did try to stop
> the Soviets from introducing their report on Katyn. But Soviets
> pushed ahead anyway.
>
> But the court did what it is supposed to do: it heard the evidence and
> ruled it inadmissible.
>
> What absurd ideas you have. You suppose that judges should decide
> *before* they hear evidence whether it is true evidence or fake or
> whether it is admissable or inadmissible. No court in the world does
> that–except show trial courts.
>
> Show trial courts decide whether the evidence is any good before they
> hear it. Basically, you are now complaining that the IMT *wasn’t* a
> show trial.
>
> As I say, please make up your mind what it is you wish me to believe.
>
> >Instead, the IMTribunal swept this under the carpet and the no longer screened by the
> >military censors media of the Allies contributed to the continuation for years of the
> >cover up on the Katyn Massacre.
>
> Let’s examine this absurd charge that IMT is somehow responsible for
> the press covering up the Katyn massacre after the trial ended. But
> what cover-up do you mean?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Éditions France empire published
> Wladyslaw Anders’s _Katyn_ in 1949?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Hollis & Carter of London published
> Józef Mackiewicz’s _The Katyn Wood Murders_ in 1951?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when the 82nd Congress of the United States
> investigated the Katyn massacre in 1952?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when US IMT prosecutor Whitney Harris gave a
> full account of the Katyn evidence in his book on the IMT, _Tyranny on
> Trial_, in 1954?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Notre Dame University Press published
> Janusz Zawodny’s _Death in the Forest: The Story of the Katyn Forest
> Massacre_ in 1962?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when the Polish Cultural Foundation in London
> published Zdzislaw Stahl’s edition of _The Crime of Katyn: Facts &
> Documents_ in 1965?
>
> Do mean the cover-up when Tom Stacey Ltd. of London published Louis
> FitzGibbon’s _The Katyn Cover-Up_ in 1972 with a foreword by Airey
> Neave who had been on the British justices’ staff at the IMT?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Regnery of Chicago published Eugenjusz
> Komorowski’s _Night Never Ending_ in 1974?
>
> Space does not permit giving an account of the cover-up during the
> 1980s and 1990s when the Katyn massacre was covered up by the
> publication of *dozens* of books.
>
> So please PHSO, tell me about this cover-up. I’m very interested to
> hear about the cover-up. When did it take place?
>
> >Nuremberg was a farce and the Show Trial from the begining to the end.
>
> You say that as if you know what you are talking about.
>
> Please, PHSO, give us some examples of crimes of which the Nazi
> leadership was convicted that they did not commit.
>
> You Revisionist idiots seem to be a little bit stuck on that point.
>
> >They were to discharge justice and what they discharged was continuation of
> >philo-Semitic propaganda with e.g. with 2,000,000 Jews steamed at Treblinka I, being
> >silent about exhumed mass graves of 10,000 Poles at the Treblinka II, silent about
> >10,000 skeletons of Ukrainian political prisoners exhumed in 1943 in Vinnytsa, they
> >supressed the existance of the aerial photos of all alleged massacre sites (because
> >they were negative) etc, etc, etc.
>
> Let see if we can sort this idiot mish-mash of lunatic ravings into
> some sort of argument that merits an answer.
>
> The Soviet slaughter of Ukrainian political prisoners at Vinnytsa was
> certainly a horrible crime. But what does it have to do with the IMT?
> As I understand it, the Soviets killed their own political prisoners
> rather than make them part of the retreat from the German invasion of
> the Soviet Union in 1941.
>
> I’m not sure what PHSO means about Polish corpses at Treblinka II.
> Earlier in the discussion, he was arguing that the area mass of graves
> was more important than the volume so that the smaller area of the
> Treblinka graves compared to those at Katyn meant that the Treblinka
> could only have held 4000 corpses. Now he complains that IMT ignored
> 10,000 Polish corpses in the graves? What does this idiot want us to
> believe.
>
> Only a complete ignoramus would have us believe that the IMT ignored
> the crimes against Poland. The entire case against Hans Frank, the
> governor of Occupied Poland was about crimes against Poles, the
> slaughter of the intelligentsia, the spoliation of agricultural
> products far in excess of what was required by the occupying army, the
> kidnap of Polish children who looked “Aryan.” Here is a small portion
> from the beginning of the Judgment against Frank:
>
> Frank was appointed Chief Civil Administration Officer for
> occupied Polish territory and, on 12th October, 1939, was made
> Governor General of the occupied Polish territory. On 3rd October,
> 1939, he described the policy which he intended to put into effect
> by stating: “Poland shall be treated like a colony, the Poles
> will become the slaves of the Greater German World Empire.” The
> evidence establishes that this occupation policy was based on the
> complete destruction of Poland as a national entity, and a
> ruthless exploitation of its human and economic resources for
> the German war effort. All opposition was crushed with the utmost
> harshness. A reign of terror was instituted, backed by summary
> police courts which ordered such actions as the public shootings
> of groups of twenty to two hundred Poles, and the widespread
> shootings of hostages. The concentration camp system was introduced
> in the General Government by the establishment of the notorious
> Treblinka and Maydanek camps. As early as 6th February, 1940,
> Frank gave an indication of the extent of this reign of terror
> by his cynical comment to a newspaper reporter on von Neurath’s
> poster announcing the execution of the Czech students: ” I wished
> to order that one should hang up posters about every seven Poles
> shot, there would not be enough forests in Poland with which to
> make the paper for these posters.” On 30th May, 1940, Frank told
> a police conference that he was taking advantage of the offensive
> in the West which diverted the attention of the world from Poland
> to liquidate thousands of Poles who would be likely to resist
> German domination of Poland, including ” the leading representatives
> of the Polish intelligentsia.” Pursuant to these instructions the
> brutal A.B. action was begun under which the Security Police and
> SD carried out these exterminations which were only partially
> subjected to the restraints of legal procedure. On 2nd October,
> 1943, Frank issued a decree under which any non-Germans hindering
> German construction in the General Government were to be tried
> by summary courts of the Security Police and SD and sentenced to
> death.
>
> One wonders how this idiot PHSO imagines that Poles were forgotten.
>
> On the last point, Treblinka is mentioned twice in the IMT judgment:
> once as above with respect to Hans Frank, once in the general
> description of the evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity
> which would be used in the individual judgments. No mention is ever
> made of 2 million “steaming” deaths.
>
> And somehow or other, idiot PHSO wants us to believe the Revisionist
> Robert Faurisson when he says the mass murder of Jews paid almost no
> role in the IMT but that the entire trial was a “continuation of
> philo-Semitic propaganda.”
>
> Well? Which is it? What Revisionist myth are we called upon to
> believe?
>
> >Instead, they gave us testimonies of survivors and testimonies of German perpetrators.
>
> >While should we believe Germans in US custody when they admitted to the crimes they did
> >not commit (at Katyn) in Soviet custody!!!!
>
> What sort of babbling nonsense is this? Does the PHSO now want us to
> believe that the German officers executed by the Soviets for Katyn
> were later called to testify against the Soviet evidence at Nuremberg?
> For heaven’s sake, the Soviet allegations about Katyn were rebutted by
> “Germans in US custody” who testified as defense witnesses against the
> Soviet report.
>
> Follow-ups trimmed.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> —
> “Fuch the world lets murder people.” — Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999
From [email protected] Sat Oct 30 16:44:08 EDT 1999
Article: 192633 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:05:27 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690718 soc.culture.polish:192633
Orac wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, polin <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Sara’s Holocasutian responses are usually embarassingly irrational. Thus
> I do not
> > bother to respond to them. However she has a better day today in a
> different field
> > than the Holocaust and also she errs she deserves response:
> >
> > Your level of ignorance of psychiatry is acceptable as you are partially
> correct.
> > However you are either ingnorant or malicious that you withold
> information that
> > Tardive Dyskinesia sometimes occurs after a few dozes of thorazine like
> drugs and
> > most of the time is permanent.
> >
> > Please do not take my word for that. The largest (on thousands of
> patients) study
> > of tardive dyskinesia and its natrual history and frequency has been
> conducted by a
> > Jewish doctor at the Yale School of Medicine a few years ago. I spoke
> with him
> > personally about this matter about three years ago. I do not remember
> his name
> > right now but call Dept of Psychiatry at the Yale Med School and they
> will give you
> > his name. Or try tardive dyskinesia on search engine but you will
> probably get
> > thousands references.
>
> Please cite the reference, including journal name, year, volume, and page
> number in which this study appeared, so that I could read and judge for
> myself if I so desired.
Dear Dr Orac,
I am not in medical profession but you are. If you can not afford few dimes
and a phone call to Yale’s School of Medicine Dept of Psychiatry, or chek it
in the Index Mecicus I start to doubt you graduated from any medical school.
I am not in Queens presently and am unable to give you this citation. But one
day I will cite from it verbatim to embarass you. I think I will get hold of
that file on Monday.
Polina
What a doctors they educate today! Quacks? Incidentally which med school you
attended??
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
From [email protected] Sat Oct 30 16:44:09 EDT 1999
Article: 192635 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.abs.net!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: How about Soviets trying Western Allies for Holocausting civilians of Cologne, Dresden and Tokyo ???Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal…
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:21:04 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 243
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690723 soc.culture.polish:192635
Dear Mr Morris,
You know how to use scanners, one I do not have, and list Katyn references. But I would
like to bring to the attention of the readers that the first book about Auschwitz was
completed within five months and published instantly by only public outcry of American
Polonia brought the hushed up by the American Jewmedia matter of Katyn forth and only as
late as 1952 i.e. nearly ten years after its disection by the Nazis.
Now since Mr Morris brought the 1952 Congressional Proceeding up, in fairness, I give him a
warning that I will cite what American Jews and organizations had to say at that time about
their “extermination’. I can assure you that this avoved Holocaustian will be CRESTFALLEN.
Incidentally, during these Proceedings and Hearings, a young Patrick Buchannan got
interested in Katyn and since he became a life long conservative.
For the same reason P. Buchanan wrote several pro-Polish columns about Katyn and Auschwitz
scandals.
Polina
John Morris wrote:
> In <[email protected]> in alt.revisionism, on Thu, 28 Oct
> 1999 23:18:41 -0400, polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Good evening,
>
> [The Polina Historical Society of One (PHSO) loses on Katyn and plays
> the Dresden card]
>
> >The WW II started with the Dictators Blitzkrieg and ended with the Democracies
> >Blintzkrieg.
>
> Well, I guess that just about says it all.
>
> >PS To the readers of these groups:
>
> >1) J. Morriss and others Holocaustians systematically change the subject of discussion
> >in order to forget their dillemmas and trivialize the debate. That is their strategem
> >for the last few months I am on the Internet.
>
> I’m sorry. What kind of drugs are you on? You’re the one who can’t
> make up his mind what facts he wants us to believe. You’re the one
> who keeps changing the subject line and the topic of conversation.
> You’re the one who brought up Nuremberg and now wants to avoid talking
> about it. And you’re the one who trivializes the debate by trying on
> every irrelevant Revisionist gambit and fails to make a case.
>
> Lastly, it is *you* who trivializes the horror of Dresden with your
> cheap insinuations that “Jews” were behind it all. “Blintzkrieg”
> indeed. You are no better than the Nazis you defend.
>
> >2) Below J. orrris seems not to notice that when a murderer comitts and signle act of
> >charity he does not becom an angel. Because Nurmeberg Tribunal did not incorporated
> >the Katyn Massacre into its Verdict and did not consider Soviet evidence as credible it
> >does not meant that in all other decisions they were right.
>
> It does not mean that all their other decisions were right. But, as
> you now seem to admit, the IMT’s decision on Katyn *was* correct. If
> you wish to claim that the IMT was a show trial and that their
> decisions were wrong, then you must produce examples of wrong
> decisions.
>
> So far, you have failed completely.
>
> >On the contrary, by even considering a fake evidence for evidence and NOT screaming
> >bloody murder while they noticed that, they became as guilty as the Soviets. The test
> >of appropriatnes on the Victors was much higher then on the vanquished.
>
> The Western prosecutors *did* scream bloody murder and did try to stop
> the Soviets from introducing their report on Katyn. But Soviets
> pushed ahead anyway.
>
> But the court did what it is supposed to do: it heard the evidence and
> ruled it inadmissible.
>
> What absurd ideas you have. You suppose that judges should decide
> *before* they hear evidence whether it is true evidence or fake or
> whether it is admissable or inadmissible. No court in the world does
> that–except show trial courts.
>
> Show trial courts decide whether the evidence is any good before they
> hear it. Basically, you are now complaining that the IMT *wasn’t* a
> show trial.
>
> As I say, please make up your mind what it is you wish me to believe.
>
> >Instead, the IMTribunal swept this under the carpet and the no longer screened by the
> >military censors media of the Allies contributed to the continuation for years of the
> >cover up on the Katyn Massacre.
>
> Let’s examine this absurd charge that IMT is somehow responsible for
> the press covering up the Katyn massacre after the trial ended. But
> what cover-up do you mean?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Éditions France empire published
> Wladyslaw Anders’s _Katyn_ in 1949?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Hollis & Carter of London published
> Józef Mackiewicz’s _The Katyn Wood Murders_ in 1951?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when the 82nd Congress of the United States
> investigated the Katyn massacre in 1952?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when US IMT prosecutor Whitney Harris gave a
> full account of the Katyn evidence in his book on the IMT, _Tyranny on
> Trial_, in 1954?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Notre Dame University Press published
> Janusz Zawodny’s _Death in the Forest: The Story of the Katyn Forest
> Massacre_ in 1962?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when the Polish Cultural Foundation in London
> published Zdzislaw Stahl’s edition of _The Crime of Katyn: Facts &
> Documents_ in 1965?
>
> Do mean the cover-up when Tom Stacey Ltd. of London published Louis
> FitzGibbon’s _The Katyn Cover-Up_ in 1972 with a foreword by Airey
> Neave who had been on the British justices’ staff at the IMT?
>
> Do you mean the cover-up when Regnery of Chicago published Eugenjusz
> Komorowski’s _Night Never Ending_ in 1974?
>
> Space does not permit giving an account of the cover-up during the
> 1980s and 1990s when the Katyn massacre was covered up by the
> publication of *dozens* of books.
>
> So please PHSO, tell me about this cover-up. I’m very interested to
> hear about the cover-up. When did it take place?
>
> >Nuremberg was a farce and the Show Trial from the begining to the end.
>
> You say that as if you know what you are talking about.
>
> Please, PHSO, give us some examples of crimes of which the Nazi
> leadership was convicted that they did not commit.
>
> You Revisionist idiots seem to be a little bit stuck on that point.
>
> >They were to discharge justice and what they discharged was continuation of
> >philo-Semitic propaganda with e.g. with 2,000,000 Jews steamed at Treblinka I, being
> >silent about exhumed mass graves of 10,000 Poles at the Treblinka II, silent about
> >10,000 skeletons of Ukrainian political prisoners exhumed in 1943 in Vinnytsa, they
> >supressed the existance of the aerial photos of all alleged massacre sites (because
> >they were negative) etc, etc, etc.
>
> Let see if we can sort this idiot mish-mash of lunatic ravings into
> some sort of argument that merits an answer.
>
> The Soviet slaughter of Ukrainian political prisoners at Vinnytsa was
> certainly a horrible crime. But what does it have to do with the IMT?
> As I understand it, the Soviets killed their own political prisoners
> rather than make them part of the retreat from the German invasion of
> the Soviet Union in 1941.
>
> I’m not sure what PHSO means about Polish corpses at Treblinka II.
> Earlier in the discussion, he was arguing that the area mass of graves
> was more important than the volume so that the smaller area of the
> Treblinka graves compared to those at Katyn meant that the Treblinka
> could only have held 4000 corpses. Now he complains that IMT ignored
> 10,000 Polish corpses in the graves? What does this idiot want us to
> believe.
>
> Only a complete ignoramus would have us believe that the IMT ignored
> the crimes against Poland. The entire case against Hans Frank, the
> governor of Occupied Poland was about crimes against Poles, the
> slaughter of the intelligentsia, the spoliation of agricultural
> products far in excess of what was required by the occupying army, the
> kidnap of Polish children who looked “Aryan.” Here is a small portion
> from the beginning of the Judgment against Frank:
>
> Frank was appointed Chief Civil Administration Officer for
> occupied Polish territory and, on 12th October, 1939, was made
> Governor General of the occupied Polish territory. On 3rd October,
> 1939, he described the policy which he intended to put into effect
> by stating: “Poland shall be treated like a colony, the Poles
> will become the slaves of the Greater German World Empire.” The
> evidence establishes that this occupation policy was based on the
> complete destruction of Poland as a national entity, and a
> ruthless exploitation of its human and economic resources for
> the German war effort. All opposition was crushed with the utmost
> harshness. A reign of terror was instituted, backed by summary
> police courts which ordered such actions as the public shootings
> of groups of twenty to two hundred Poles, and the widespread
> shootings of hostages. The concentration camp system was introduced
> in the General Government by the establishment of the notorious
> Treblinka and Maydanek camps. As early as 6th February, 1940,
> Frank gave an indication of the extent of this reign of terror
> by his cynical comment to a newspaper reporter on von Neurath’s
> poster announcing the execution of the Czech students: ” I wished
> to order that one should hang up posters about every seven Poles
> shot, there would not be enough forests in Poland with which to
> make the paper for these posters.” On 30th May, 1940, Frank told
> a police conference that he was taking advantage of the offensive
> in the West which diverted the attention of the world from Poland
> to liquidate thousands of Poles who would be likely to resist
> German domination of Poland, including ” the leading representatives
> of the Polish intelligentsia.” Pursuant to these instructions the
> brutal A.B. action was begun under which the Security Police and
> SD carried out these exterminations which were only partially
> subjected to the restraints of legal procedure. On 2nd October,
> 1943, Frank issued a decree under which any non-Germans hindering
> German construction in the General Government were to be tried
> by summary courts of the Security Police and SD and sentenced to
> death.
>
> One wonders how this idiot PHSO imagines that Poles were forgotten.
>
> On the last point, Treblinka is mentioned twice in the IMT judgment:
> once as above with respect to Hans Frank, once in the general
> description of the evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity
> which would be used in the individual judgments. No mention is ever
> made of 2 million “steaming” deaths.
>
> And somehow or other, idiot PHSO wants us to believe the Revisionist
> Robert Faurisson when he says the mass murder of Jews paid almost no
> role in the IMT but that the entire trial was a “continuation of
> philo-Semitic propaganda.”
>
> Well? Which is it? What Revisionist myth are we called upon to
> believe?
>
> >Instead, they gave us testimonies of survivors and testimonies of German perpetrators.
>
> >While should we believe Germans in US custody when they admitted to the crimes they did
> >not commit (at Katyn) in Soviet custody!!!!
>
> What sort of babbling nonsense is this? Does the PHSO now want us to
> believe that the German officers executed by the Soviets for Katyn
> were later called to testify against the Soviet evidence at Nuremberg?
> For heaven’s sake, the Soviet allegations about Katyn were rebutted by
> “Germans in US custody” who testified as defense witnesses against the
> Soviet report.
>
> Follow-ups trimmed.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> —
> “Fuch the world lets murder people.” — Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999
From [email protected] Sun Oct 31 16:19:03 EST 1999
Article: 691075 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires
>>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:40:00 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691075 soc.culture.polish:192737
soc.culture.ukrainian:59973 soc.culture.german:143140
soc.culture.russian:160496
Dear Mr Mc VAy,
I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
To your pensive last ditch defense:
“In short, most of the world cares.
Get used to it.”
is a double edged sword.
Do you remember, Mr Mc Vay the Jewish invention of the Communism. Virtually
entirle world belived in it including Einstein and Roosvelt. Would you
know where, 10 years later, I can find any punny Communists. It seems that
the religion of Communism transformed into Holocaustianity.
Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Dear Mr Mc Vay,
> >
> >In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> >Resistance Dec. 1996) who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> >during Nuremberg trials? … I guess only naive ones or fanatical
> >holocaustians.
>
> Please demonstrate which testimonies were “extorted.” Cite documentary
> evidence and show how this “extorted” testimony affected the evidence
> presented.
>
> “Revisionists,” of course, care a great deal about the evidence and
> the testimony – it is only the Holocaust deniers and Jew-haters who
> contend that it is not important.
>
> In short, most of the world cares.
> Get used to it.
>
> https://nizkor.org
>
> —
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Sun Oct 31 16:19:04 EST 1999
Article: 691155 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.sollentuna.se!newshub.northeast.verio.net!
cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!CTCnet!pitt.edu!
gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!
supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691155 soc.culture.polish:192778
soc.culture.ukrainian:59987 soc.culture.german:143174
soc.culture.russian:160564
Dear Mr. K.
I do not understand your question and did not say he lied.
Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to
be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly
reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians.
Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not
Eichmann and Berlin.
He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think
that much is clear.
In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is
foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying “once a laiar
always a lair”, unless proven otherwise.
More interesting is why Eichmann “lied” on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in
interogation room.
Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide
videorecording tape.
His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his
show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating
videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years.
And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently
forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April
to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust.
When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons:
1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek
in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive
Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side
effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the
mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry.
Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were
given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well
psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine.
No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort ‘appropriate’
testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and
soviet dissidents into submissive zombies.
While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he
was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors.
I hope this explains to you my position correctly.
I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the Internet
as inssinuated by ORAC.
Greetings from Polina and God Bless you.
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> https://nizkor.org
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and
> >being part of
> >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000
> >plus 500,000
> >victims who died due to disease and privation.
> >
> >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of
> >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to
> >know how may
> >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number
> >to Berlin not
> >vice versa.
>
> Other than your feeling – i.e. that something someone said was/is
> “preposterous” – do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have
> any evidence that Eichmann lied?
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:04 EST 1999
Article: 691271 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!news.iac.net!netnews.com!
news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!
news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: Mass graves of Treblinka II camp
>>Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:52:22 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192815 soc.culture.ukrainian:59998
alt.revisionism:691271 soc.culture.german:143208
Dear Alan,
I note your anger, gutter language and response with non-physical evidence.
I have written many times already that 1944 Soviet and then 1945 Polish
excavations at the Treblinka II for Poles revealed about 50 mass graves each
for about 100 -200 bodies. Even more, these mass graves are clearly seen in
the wartime air photos of the Treblinka area.
In fall 1945, to boost the Nuremberg Trial, Polish authorities started
extensive excavations primarly of the Treblinka II camp for the Jews. The
results were dismal.
They could not find the trace of the gas chambers. At the site Lazaret
(allegedly about 50,000 sick and elderly Jews shot) they did not found a
single shell and not even a single led slug but they did find about 90 foreing
coins and about 10 US pennies among them.
They found mass traces of mass graves and human took photos of many dozens
human skulls and larger assortment of human bones. Apparently Nazis were not
pedantic in convering the traces of their alleged industrial murder of the
Jews.
They found traces of mass graves with depth up to if I am not mistaken six
meters ergo about18-20 feet, but most importantly their failed to record their
surface. The depth seems terribly “high”. At six meters in this postglacial
dune, Nazis would have to install elaborate retention walls. But since the
graves were re-opened by large mechanical shovel it is possible that what the
Court of Siedlce commission noted it was the depths of the shovels bites in
this post-glacial sand.
Fortunately, the August 1944 eye-level photos of the T -II graves have been
located, so far never published by any Jewish scholar. Along with the air
photos they give exact surface of the mass graves at the T II. It equals
400square meters.
Througght the wrold mass graves are never dug deeper then 2-3 meters and thus
on average 10 individuals are buried in one square meter.
The surface of the mass graves at the T -II is 10% smaller than in Katyn.
Samuel Willenberg obliquely sugests in his book Surviving Treblinka, 1992
first publishe by the Israeli Ministry of Defense, that Jewish
doctors-prisoners were conducting euthanasia on sick and old Jews. The most
rational and efficient injectable for this purpose would be IV or IM
Strophantine a slight overdose of this cardiac stimulant no longer used in the
USA
I do not have to depend on revisionist Raven from IHR to know what was written
in the 1945/46 Polish Treblinka report. I red the original in Warsaw about
ten years ago. Nor I have to depend on the interpretations of an unstable
revisionist John Ball, an excellent graphic artist but a terrible air photo
interpreter.
Polina Borowska
PS could you email this letter to Mr. G Raven?? My old computer will not do
it and I have no way of saving it. Thanks POlina
Alan wrote:
> [email protected] (polin) wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
> >I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
> >physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
>
> Evidence has been presented thousands of times. Spreading your filthy
> insinuations throughout the world does not change that fact:
>
> From Nizkor, https://nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html Broken link. Reposted here
> for the usage of readers who like me are NOT subscribing to revisionnist
> newsgroups but who get your crap through your cross-posting intoxication.
>
> “No mounds of ashes” is an internal contradiction. In an article in the
> journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal’s
> editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the
> Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is
> available on Greg Raven’s web site.
> (Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly
> cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the
> editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no
> comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the
> first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)
>
> There are also piles of ashes at Maidanek. At Auschwitz-Birkenau, ashes
> from cremated corpses were dumped into the rivers and swamps surrounding
> the camp, and used as fertilizer for nearby farmers’ fields.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:04 EST 1999
Article: 691272 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.cult.Polish,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: Why Auschw Jews can not be accounted ???
>>Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist
>>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribu
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:07:29 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691272
In mid and late 1940s about two million Jews in Polans slavicized their names like
the parents of present Polands President from Stolzman to Kwasniewski
Polina
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> Ceacaa <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist
> >>>
> > Who cares about Nuremberg Tribu
> > From: “Yale F.Edeiken” <[email protected]>
> > Date: Thu, 28 October 1999 10:55 PM EDT
> > Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
> > > polin <[email protected]> wrote in article
> > > <[email protected]>…
> > > > It is extememly difficult to discuss matters with Yale.
> > >
> > > Of course, it is. I expose your lies as lies.
> > >
> > > Watch:
> > > > Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and
> > > being part of
> > > > Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000
> > > plus 500,000
> > > > victims who died due to disease and privation.
> > >
> > > LIE #1
> > >
> > > It was not a deposition. It was a statement.
> > >
> > > His testimony at two trial and in his memoirs was different.
> > >
> > > > It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the
> > > Commendant of
> > > > Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to
> > > know how may
> > > > victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these
> number
> > > to Berlin not
> > > > vice versa.
> > >
> > > LIE #2: Hoess was commander of the camp for only a portion of the
> > time.
> >
> > > Nor was it is his responsibility to report the numbers to Eichmann. It
> > was
> > > Eichmann’s job to arrange the transportation. He did not have to tell
> > > Eichmann what Eichmann was doing.
> > >
> > > Newsgroups limited to alt.revisionism at the request of posters to
> > other
> > > groups who are tired of this fake Pole’s tiresome lies.
> > >
> > >
> > > –YFE
> > > [Ceacaa finds Yale]
> > > Hey, Yale…
>
> > hey lying fuck.
> >
> > When are you going to stop lying about the Holocaust.
>
> > –YFE
>
> > [CEACAA REPLIES]
>
> > And to accuse me of “lying”
>
> You certainly do.
>
> Now tell us what happened to the 1,000,000 Jews who were tansported to
> Auschwitz and cannot be accounted for at the end of the war.
> –YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:05 EST 1999
Article: 691273 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:11:51 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 196
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691273 soc.culture.jewish:419183
soc.culture.usa:425159
[email protected] wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > This thread demonstrates the need for (and the good works of)
> > > organizations like Nizkor. When no one from this time period is
> alive,
> > > there will be more and more twisted individuals who have
> “explanations”
> > > and cry “where is the physical evidence”? If not for the evidence
> > > already gathered carefully, far more idiotic theories would now be
> > > appear.
> > >
> > > Why did the prewar Jewish population in Poland drop from 3.5 million
> to
> > > just a few thousand? What theories could the revisionists (liars)
> come
> > > up with to explain this?
>
> This question still has not been answered.
> > >
> > > The posts of Polina sound sick and twisted. She writes long posts
> that
> > > seek to discredit every piece of evidence that exists. She
> > > appearently is hoping that an insufficient effort was made to
> preserve
> > > and document all the evidence. She hopes that some damning evidence
> is
> > > lost or destroyed for all time. Then she can say that nothing
> happened.
> > >
> > > Her intent is to state that nothing happened and is desperately
> trying
> > > to support that claim instead of keeping an open mind and doing
> > > research. Why would this individual have such a sinister
> motiviation?
> > > That hasn’t yet been explained by this poster.
> > >
> > > What is the point? Polina should answer two simple questions.
> > >
> > > 1. How many Jews were killed/murdered iin Europe?
> >
> > Response: Murdered probably a few by thgieving and/or deranged
> Germans, some
> > of them executed by the Nazis like Carl Koch husband of Elsa..
> > Killed about few thousands as the result of executions
> followed
> > administrative trials (vide preserved Gestapo records of the Ciechanow
> > Rejency (County), others in the process or in reprisal operations as
> > hostages, killings justified by Hague and Geneva conventions
>
> So, all killins are “justifiable”. No war crimes here. All nice and
> legal like.
> >
> > About 600,000 died in different phases of de-golding frequently
> resulting
> > in endemic epidemics especially in the ghettos, ostentatiously
> established
> > to eradicate and contain epidemics.
>
> Very thoughtful of the authorities. Trying to stop the spread of
> disease. They should have gotten a Nobel Peace Prize.
> >
> > >
> > > 2. And, how was this carried out?
> >
> > If they were killed en mass with machine gun fire, none of the
> 3,000,000 to
> > 4,000,000 victims were exhumated and when the attempts were made none
> were
> > found last time tried in Lithuania in summer 1996 and the Belzec
> apparently
> > failed to estabilsh burial of 600,000 reduced from the original
> estimate by
> > eyewitness of 48,000,000 Jews (10,000 electroshocked everyhour on the
> hour)
> > later reduced to 2,500,000 then to 1,500,000 and eventually to
> 600,000.
>
> “Only 600,000”. Was it “de-golding” or machine gun fire?
>
> Well that settles it!
>
> So Josef Mengele didn’t perform gruesome medical experiments on humans,
> There were no trains carrying Jews to concentration camps, there were no
> gas chambers, no ovens, no slave labor. No war crimes were committed.
>
Dear Sir or Madam,
> Experiments, trains, concentration campes, delousing gas chambers and
> forced by paid labor are not proofs of industrial murder of the Jews.
Excavations of mass graves would be
>
> >
> > Polina
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > “Yale F.Edeiken” <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Phillips — the man without a country wrote;
> > > >
> > > > > Philip Mathews wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In >Message-id: <[email protected]>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Peter Haefner [email protected] wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >On 23 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0400, “Yale F.Edeiken”
> <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>> The most notorious examples of those false
> > > > > > >>> documents are the witness testimonies, the
> > > > > > >>> forensic report and other evidence produced at
> > > > > > >>> the trial of ten German officers accused of
> > > > > > >>> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the
> > > > > > >>> Katyn Forest.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no
> doucmentary
> > > > evidence of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >>Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily
> > > proven
> > > > > > >>fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it.
> > > >
> > > > > If that is so, then I find it odd that the widespread belief in
> > > German
> > > > > resposibility persisted as long as it did.
> > > >
> > > > That is because you are, as usual, babbling ignorance.
> > > >
> > > > The GERMAN forensic reports stated that the victims were
> shot
> > > were German
> > > > ammunition.
> > > >
> > > > Thus the hard physical evidence always pointed to the
> Germans as
> > > the
> > > > killers.
> > > >
> > > > And now back to the real business:
> > > >
> > > > Although Philllips sees fit to challenge the patriotism and
> > > loyalty of
> > > > others:
> > > >
> > > > 1. When confronted with an act of treasona gainst his
> country,
> > > he
> > > > attempted to justify that act and smear others.
> > > >
> > > > 2. He openly advocates the violent destruction of his own
> > > country.
> > > >
> > > > When asked to repudiate those disloyal positions he refused
> to
> > > do and
> > > > attempted to divert the discussion with what he now admits were
> cheap
> > > > debating tricks.
> > > >
> > > > There can be only one conclusion — he is a traitor.
> > > >
> > > > –YFE
> > > >
> > > > The Holocaust History Project is at
> http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> > > > The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> > > > The Einsatzgruppen page is at
> http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> > > > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Broken link
> > > Before you buy.
> >
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Broken link
> Before you buy.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:05 EST 1999
Article: 691274 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!,
Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:13:45 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691274
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> Orac <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kenneth
> > McVay OBC) wrote:
> >
> > > The videotape of the Trial of Adolf Eichmann is on sale by PBS –
> > > what’s the big deal?
>
> > > The transcripts – in their entirety, are available on Nizkor – along
> > > with instructions telling you how to buy the books, so please no
> > > moaning about how you can’t find them.
>
> > He probably expects you either to e-mail him the transcripts in their
> > entirety or to buy him a copy of the books and send it to him….
>
> But Ken is being silly. He/she/it claims she lives in New York City and
> searched long, hard and unsucessfully for a copy of the IMT record. Not
> only do is the finest library on the international law of war crimes
> located in New York City (they have even supplied me with briefs from the
> ones now going on at the Hague) but there are multiple copies in the New
> York Public Library.
>
> A New Yorker who can’t locate books that are in the NYPD couldn’t find
> water if they were in a dinghy in the middle of the Pacific ocean.
> –YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:05 EST 1999
Article: 691276 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:Parking cost at Yale Univ and in NYC
>>> Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:17:42 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691276
Mr Edeiken is blind or stuborn,
I explain again that I wrote the the nearest available to me MIT volumes were at
Yale Intl. Law School library, 60 mile away, where parking costs 25 cents per hour
and in the vicinity of the NYPL it costs $24.00 per first hour.
But when Yale’s STerling library does not have materials found at NYPL I get
someone to drive me there.
Polina
“Yale F.Edeiken” wrote:
> Orac <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <[email protected]>…
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kenneth
> > McVay OBC) wrote:
> >
> > > The videotape of the Trial of Adolf Eichmann is on sale by PBS –
> > > what’s the big deal?
>
> > > The transcripts – in their entirety, are available on Nizkor – along
> > > with instructions telling you how to buy the books, so please no
> > > moaning about how you can’t find them.
>
> > He probably expects you either to e-mail him the transcripts in their
> > entirety or to buy him a copy of the books and send it to him….
>
> But Ken is being silly. He/she/it claims she lives in New York City and
> searched long, hard and unsucessfully for a copy of the IMT record. Not
> only do is the finest library on the international law of war crimes
> located in New York City (they have even supplied me with briefs from the
> ones now going on at the Hague) but there are multiple copies in the New
> York Public Library.
>
> A New Yorker who can’t locate books that are in the NYPD couldn’t find
> water if they were in a dinghy in the middle of the Pacific ocean.
> –YFE
>
> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
> The Nizkor Project is at https://nizkor.org/
> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:06 EST 1999
Article: 691277 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!
195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!
corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Columbine Massacre
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:19:33 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691277
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> Say, Mr. Kadach, how come you haven’t yet told us what you think about
> Hitler’s attempt to destroy the Christian Church in all areas under
> German control.
>
> I’d like to hear your view.
Hitler attempted to destroy Christian churches by givnig their ministers
monthly salary and signing Concordat with Vatican
Hehehehe
Polina
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> “What I say does not make it true.” Matt Giwer, In his cups.
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:06 EST 1999
Article: 691278 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaustian excuses about
>>>Anne Frank’s futuristic ballpoint pen
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:23:33 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 166
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]1.dial.cadvision.com>
<[email protected]>
<sl <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691278 soc.culture.jewish:419185
I do not care about your longwinded excuses, Mr Mc VAY.
IT would by much better if facscimile of the diary would be published or even
better the questionable pages would be made available at hers museum to look at
and not hidden in a Swiss vault.
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Orest Slepokura <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Anne Frank may not have inked that famous diary
> >
> >Al Fredricks | New York Post | October 9, 1980
> >
> >A REPORT by the German Federal Criminal Investigation Bureau (BKA)
> >indicates that portions of _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ had been altered or
> >added after 1951, casting doubt over the authenticity of the entire work,
> >the West German news weekly Der Spiegel has disclosed.
>
> Gregory Taylor, writing in Usenet, offered this comment:
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/f/frank.anne/anne.frank.002: Broken link
>
> “The original 4-page report from the BKA (Bundeskriminaliteitsarchiv?
> Man, my spelling’s rusty) confined itself to the more narrow question
> of the time period in which the diary materials were created being
> consistent with a 1940-43 date. The conclusion was that, yes, the
> materials were consistent. They did, correctly, point out that there
> were several additions to the text in ball pen ink. However, what
> the report neglects to mention (and Der Spiegel doesn’t either. I’m
> still curious about that, since I don’t *always* associate DS with
> News of the World) is the *number* of entries (small), *where* they
> are made (on loose scraps of paper collected in with the “loose”
> contents of the third section of the diary), and whether or not
> they appear in the text of the diary itself (they do not. They’re
> clearly editorial notes made during the attempt to collate the loose
> pages in the correct order. Otto Frank’s page numbers exist on
> the corner of a number of the sheets in the third diary section for
> precisely the same reason).”
>
> In addition:
>
> Archive/File: people/f/frank.anne holland.003
> Last-Modified: 1994/02/15
>
> ANNE FRANK & The Diary
>
> Anne was just one of eight Dutch Jews who had been in hiding for two
> years and thirty days when they were discovered and arrested by the
> Nazis and deported from Amsterdam to the death camps in Poland.
> Herman Van Pels, a business associate of Anne’s father, was gassed
> upon the group’s arrival at Auschwitz-Birkenau, September 6, 1944
> (Netherlands Red Cross, dossier 103586). His wife died “between
> April 9 and May 8, 1945, in Germany or in Czechoslovakia,”
> (Netherlands Red Cross, dossier 103586). Their son Peter died on
> May 5, 1945, in Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria, after a
> forced march from Auschwitz (Netherlands Red Cross, dossier 135177).
> Dr. Friedrich Pfeffer, a friend of the family, died December 20, 1944,
> at Neuengamme concentration camp (Netherlands Red Cross, dossier 7500).
> Anne’s mother died January 6, 1945, at Auschwitz-Birkenau (Netherlands
> Red Cross, dossier 117265). Anne and her elder sister Margot died of
> typhus sometime around March 31, 1945, at Bergen-Belsen concentration
> camp (Netherlands Red Cross, dossiers 117266 and 117267). Of the eight,
> only one, Anne’s father, Otto Frank, survived.
>
> Two non-Jews, Johannes Kleiman and Victor Gustav Kugler, business
> associates of Otto Frank, were arrested as well, for aiding the Frank
> family. Both were sentenced to _Arbeitseinsatz_ (labor service) in
> Germany, and both survived the war.
>
> In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted
> Anne Frank’s handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science
> Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity.
> The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used–
> the ink, paper, glue, etc.–and the handwriting and issued a report
> of some 270 pages. “The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory
> has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne
> Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations
> that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or otherwise)
> are thus conclusively refuted.” Furthermore, that “despite corrections
> and omissions…_The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the published version
> of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence’ of Anne’s writings,
> and that there are no grounds on which the term `forgery’ can be applied
> to the work of the editors or publishers of the book.”
>
> Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_,
> Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation,
> edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York,
> Doubleday, 1989) p. 166.
>
> Above document provided by Danny Keren, in a post to the net on May 16th,
> 1992. It was quickly followed by expanded information from Chana – Braun,
> who expanded upon the report as follows:
>
> The document examination has, where possible, borne on the paper, the glue
> and the fiber used in the manufacture of the diaries and the standards of
> comparison. In addition, the ink and pencil deposits of the written text
> have been examined.
>
> The glue and fibers used in the binding of the diaries were analyzed by
> infrared spectrometry. The spectra of the glue used in the diaries were
> found to agree with those of bone glue and of nitrocellulose glue. These
> types of glues were in common use during the supposed period of
> manufacture. After about 1950 they were generally displaced by synthetic
> glue (polyvinyl acetate).
>
> A fiber analysis was made of the material used to cover the diary and of
> the thread used in the binding of the sections. In the first case, cotton
> and viscose (rayon) fibers were found. The bindings consisted of cotton
> fiber and flax fiber. These fibers were in common use during the supposed
> period of manufacture.
>
> The samples of the paper used in the diaries, and in the loose sheets, were
> analyzed as to their sizing, glues and fibers. The sizing was examined by
> X-ray fluorescence. The elementary composition obtained by this method
> agreed fully with that obtained from the analysis of six random samples of
> reference material manufactured during the period from 1939 up to, and
> inclusive of, 1942.
>
> The glues were examined by qualitative chemical analysis. The main subatnce
> found was starch paste.
>
> The possible presence of so-called whiteners was first examined under
> ultraviolet light. No fluorescent phenomena were observed. Upon further
> analysis, using thin-layer chromatorgraphy, the presence of whiteners could
> be positively excluded. This was important since the use of whiteners did
> not occur prior to 1952.
>
> The fiber of the paper samples was found by TNO, the Delft fiber institute,
> to consist in the main of coniferous cellulose, straw cellulose and ground
> wood pulp.
>
> These findings all served to show that no anachronism whatsoever existed
> between the supposed and the actual period of manufacture.
>
> The standards of comparison could not, because of partial destruction, be
> subjected to all the methods of analysis mentioned above. All the tests
> that could be made failed to reveal any anachronism.
>
> The ink deposits found on the standards of comparison, on the diaries and
> on the loose sheets, consist, in the main, of gray-blue fountain pen ink in
> which iron was clearly present. At the time, iron-gallotannate ink was in
> general use. Only after 1950 were inks with no, or a much lower, iron
> content introduced.
>
> Beside the gray-blue fountain pen ink, the diaries and loose sheets also
> contained: thin red ink, green and red pencil and black pencil.
>
> None of the tests produced any indication that the diaries, the loose
> sheets and the items submitted for comparison, together with the ink
> deposits found in them, are of a later date than the supposed period of
> origin.
>
> A more complete summary of the complete report made by the State Forensic
> Science Laboratory is readily available in _The Diary of Anne Frank: The
> Critical Edition_.
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> “What I say does not make it true.” Matt Giwer, In his cups.
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:34 EST 1999
Article: 192737 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires
>>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:40:00 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691075 soc.culture.polish:192737
soc.culture.ukrainian:59973 soc.culture.german:143140
soc.culture.russian:160496
Dear Mr Mc VAy,
I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
To your pensive last ditch defense:
“In short, most of the world cares.
Get used to it.”
is a double edged sword.
Do you remember, Mr Mc Vay the Jewish invention of the Communism. Virtually
entirle world belived in it including Einstein and Roosvelt. Would you
know where, 10 years later, I can find any punny Communists. It seems that
the religion of Communism transformed into Holocaustianity.
Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Dear Mr Mc Vay,
> >
> >In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> >Resistance Dec. 1996) who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> >during Nuremberg trials? … I guess only naive ones or fanatical
> >holocaustians.
>
> Please demonstrate which testimonies were “extorted.” Cite documentary
> evidence and show how this “extorted” testimony affected the evidence
> presented.
>
> “Revisionists,” of course, care a great deal about the evidence and
> the testimony – it is only the Holocaust deniers and Jew-haters who
> contend that it is not important.
>
> In short, most of the world cares.
> Get used to it.
>
> https://nizkor.org
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:35 EST 1999
Article: 192778 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.sollentuna.se!newshub.northeast.verio.net!
cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!CTCnet!pitt.edu!
gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!
supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691155 soc.culture.polish:192778
soc.culture.ukrainian:59987 soc.culture.german:143174
soc.culture.russian:160564
Dear Mr. K.
I do not understand your question and did not say he lied.
Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to
be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly
reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians.
Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not
Eichmann and Berlin.
He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think
that much is clear.
In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is
foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying “once a laiar
always a lair”, unless proven otherwise.
More interesting is why Eichmann “lied” on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in
interogation room.
Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide
videorecording tape.
His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his
show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating
videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years.
And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently
forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April
to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust.
When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons:
1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek
in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive
Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side
effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the
mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry.
Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were
given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well
psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine.
No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort ‘appropriate’
testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and
soviet dissidents into submissive zombies.
While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he
was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors.
I hope this explains to you my position correctly.
I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the
Internet
as inssinuated by ORAC.
Greetings from Polina and God Bless you.
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> https://nizkor.org
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and
> >being part of
> >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000
> >plus 500,000
> >victims who died due to disease and privation.
> >
> >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of
> >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to
> >know how may
> >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number
> >to Berlin not
> >vice versa.
>
> Other than your feeling – i.e. that something someone said was/is
> “preposterous” – do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have
> any evidence that Eichmann lied?
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:35 EST 1999
Article: 192815 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!news.iac.net!netnews.com!
news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!
news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: Mass graves of Treblinka II camp
>>Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:52:22 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192815 soc.culture.ukrainian:59998
alt.revisionism:691271 soc.culture.german:143208
Dear Alan,
I note your anger, gutter language and response with non-physical evidence.
I have written many times already that 1944 Soviet and then 1945 Polish
excavations at the Treblinka II for Poles revealed about 50 mass graves each
for about 100 -200 bodies. Even more, these mass graves are clearly seen in
the wartime air photos of the Treblinka area.
In fall 1945, to boost the Nuremberg Trial, Polish authorities started
extensive excavations primarly of the Treblinka II camp for the Jews. The
results were dismal.
They could not find the trace of the gas chambers. At the site Lazaret
(allegedly about 50,000 sick and elderly Jews shot) they did not found a
single shell and not even a single led slug but they did find about 90 foreing
coins and about 10 US pennies among them.
They found mass traces of mass graves and human took photos of many dozens
human skulls and larger assortment of human bones. Apparently Nazis were not
pedantic in convering the traces of their alleged industrial murder of the
Jews.
They found traces of mass graves with depth up to if I am not mistaken six
meters ergo about18-20 feet, but most importantly their failed to record their
surface. The depth seems terribly “high”. At six meters in this postglacial
dune, Nazis would have to install elaborate retention walls. But since the
graves were re-opened by large mechanical shovel it is possible that what the
Court of Siedlce commission noted it was the depths of the shovels bites in
this post-glacial sand.
Fortunately, the August 1944 eye-level photos of the T -II graves have been
located, so far never published by any Jewish scholar. Along with the air
photos they give exact surface of the mass graves at the T II. It equals
400square meters.
Througght the wrold mass graves are never dug deeper then 2-3 meters and thus
on average 10 individuals are buried in one square meter.
The surface of the mass graves at the T -II is 10% smaller than in Katyn.
Samuel Willenberg obliquely sugests in his book Surviving Treblinka, 1992
first publishe by the Israeli Ministry of Defense, that Jewish
doctors-prisoners were conducting euthanasia on sick and old Jews. The most
rational and efficient injectable for this purpose would be IV or IM
Strophantine a slight overdose of this cardiac stimulant no longer used in the
USA
I do not have to depend on revisionist Raven from IHR to know what was written
in the 1945/46 Polish Treblinka report. I red the original in Warsaw about
ten years ago. Nor I have to depend on the interpretations of an unstable
revisionist John Ball, an excellent graphic artist but a terrible air photo
interpreter.
Polina Borowska
PS could you email this letter to Mr. G Raven?? My old computer will not do
it and I have no way of saving it. Thanks POlina
Alan wrote:
> [email protected] (polin) wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
> >I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
> >physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
>
> Evidence has been presented thousands of times. Spreading your filthy
> insinuations throughout the world does not change that fact:
>
> From Nizkor, https://nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html Broken link. Reposted here
> for the usage of readers who like me are NOT subscribing to revisionnist
> newsgroups but who get your crap through your cross-posting intoxication.
>
> “No mounds of ashes” is an internal contradiction. In an article in the
> journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal’s
> editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the
> Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is
> available on Greg Raven’s web site.
> (Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly
> cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the
> editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no
> comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the
> first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)
>
> There are also piles of ashes at Maidanek. At Auschwitz-Birkenau, ashes
> from cremated corpses were dumped into the rivers and swamps surrounding
> the camp, and used as fertilizer for nearby farmers’ fields.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:41 EST 1999
Article: 143140 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!
rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires
>>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:40:00 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691075 soc.culture.polish:192737
soc.culture.ukrainian:59973 soc.culture.german:143140
soc.culture.russian:160496
Dear Mr Mc VAy,
I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
To your pensive last ditch defense:
“In short, most of the world cares.
Get used to it.”
is a double edged sword.
Do you remember, Mr Mc Vay the Jewish invention of the Communism. Virtually
entirle world belived in it including Einstein and Roosvelt. Would you
know where, 10 years later, I can find any punny Communists. It seems that
the religion of Communism transformed into Holocaustianity.
Todays Holocaust revisionists are the dissidents of the soviet Union
Polina
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Dear Mr Mc Vay,
> >
> >In the “[present] era of revisionism” (term in editorial in Martyrs and
> >Resistance Dec. 1996) who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained
> >during Nuremberg trials? … I guess only naive ones or fanatical
> >holocaustians.
>
> Please demonstrate which testimonies were “extorted.” Cite documentary
> evidence and show how this “extorted” testimony affected the evidence
> presented.
>
> “Revisionists,” of course, care a great deal about the evidence and
> the testimony – it is only the Holocaust deniers and Jew-haters who
> contend that it is not important.
>
> In short, most of the world cares.
> Get used to it.
>
> https://nizkor.org
>
> —
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:42 EST 1999
Article: 143174 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.sollentuna.se!newshub.northeast.verio.net!
cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!CTCnet!pitt.edu!
gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!
supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian
Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:691155 soc.culture.polish:192778
soc.culture.ukrainian:59987 soc.culture.german:143174
soc.culture.russian:160564
Dear Mr. K.
I do not understand your question and did not say he lied.
Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to
be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly
reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians.
Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not
Eichmann and Berlin.
He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think
that much is clear.
In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is
foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying “once a laiar
always a lair”, unless proven otherwise.
More interesting is why Eichmann “lied” on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in
interogation room.
Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide
videorecording tape.
His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his
show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating
videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years.
And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently
forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April
to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust.
When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons:
1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek
in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive
Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side
effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the
mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry.
Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were
given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well
psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine.
No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort ‘appropriate’
testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and
soviet dissidents into submissive zombies.
While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he
was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors.
I hope this explains to you my position correctly.
I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the Internet
as inssinuated by ORAC.
Greetings from Polina and God Bless you.
Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> https://nizkor.org
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> polin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and
> >being part of
> >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000
> >plus 500,000
> >victims who died due to disease and privation.
> >
> >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of
> >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to
> >know how may
> >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number
> >to Berlin not
> >vice versa.
>
> Other than your feeling – i.e. that something someone said was/is
> “preposterous” – do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have
> any evidence that Eichmann lied?
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Search: https://nizkor.org/search.html Broken link
> Funding: https://nizkor.org/funding.html Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Nov 1 01:21:42 EST 1999
Article: 143208 of soc.culture.german
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!news.iac.net!netnews.com!
news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!
news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!
not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism,
soc.culture.german,soc.culture.Jewish
Subject: Re: Mass graves of Treblinka II camp
>>Last ditch defense of Mc Vay backfires >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal
>>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:52:22 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192815 soc.culture.ukrainian:59998
alt.revisionism:691271 soc.culture.german:143208
Dear Alan,
I note your anger, gutter language and response with non-physical evidence.
I have written many times already that 1944 Soviet and then 1945 Polish
excavations at the Treblinka II for Poles revealed about 50 mass graves each
for about 100 -200 bodies. Even more, these mass graves are clearly seen in
the wartime air photos of the Treblinka area.
In fall 1945, to boost the Nuremberg Trial, Polish authorities started
extensive excavations primarly of the Treblinka II camp for the Jews. The
results were dismal.
They could not find the trace of the gas chambers. At the site Lazaret
(allegedly about 50,000 sick and elderly Jews shot) they did not found a
single shell and not even a single led slug but they did find about 90 foreing
coins and about 10 US pennies among them.
They found mass traces of mass graves and human took photos of many dozens
human skulls and larger assortment of human bones. Apparently Nazis were not
pedantic in convering the traces of their alleged industrial murder of the
Jews.
They found traces of mass graves with depth up to if I am not mistaken six
meters ergo about18-20 feet, but most importantly their failed to record their
surface. The depth seems terribly “high”. At six meters in this postglacial
dune, Nazis would have to install elaborate retention walls. But since the
graves were re-opened by large mechanical shovel it is possible that what the
Court of Siedlce commission noted it was the depths of the shovels bites in
this post-glacial sand.
Fortunately, the August 1944 eye-level photos of the T -II graves have been
located, so far never published by any Jewish scholar. Along with the air
photos they give exact surface of the mass graves at the T II. It equals
400square meters.
Througght the wrold mass graves are never dug deeper then 2-3 meters and thus
on average 10 individuals are buried in one square meter.
The surface of the mass graves at the T -II is 10% smaller than in Katyn.
Samuel Willenberg obliquely sugests in his book Surviving Treblinka, 1992
first publishe by the Israeli Ministry of Defense, that Jewish
doctors-prisoners were conducting euthanasia on sick and old Jews. The most
rational and efficient injectable for this purpose would be IV or IM
Strophantine a slight overdose of this cardiac stimulant no longer used in the
USA
I do not have to depend on revisionist Raven from IHR to know what was written
in the 1945/46 Polish Treblinka report. I red the original in Warsaw about
ten years ago. Nor I have to depend on the interpretations of an unstable
revisionist John Ball, an excellent graphic artist but a terrible air photo
interpreter.
Polina Borowska
PS could you email this letter to Mr. G Raven?? My old computer will not do
it and I have no way of saving it. Thanks POlina
Alan wrote:
> [email protected] (polin) wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
> >I admire your wiggling and waggling in the face of inability to present
> >physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews.
>
> Evidence has been presented thousands of times. Spreading your filthy
> insinuations throughout the world does not change that fact:
>
> From Nizkor, https://nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html Broken link . Reposted here
> for the usage of readers who like me are NOT subscribing to revisionnist
> newsgroups but who get your crap through your cross-posting intoxication.
>
> “No mounds of ashes” is an internal contradiction. In an article in the
> journal published by the same IHR that publishes these Q&A, the Journal’s
> editor reported that a Polish commission in 1946 found human ash at the
> Treblinka death camp to a depth of over twenty feet. This article is
> available on Greg Raven’s web site.
> (Apparently some survivors claimed that the corpses were always thoroughly
> cremated. Because uncremated human remains were mixed with the ash, the
> editor suggested that the testimonies were false. Amazingly, he had no
> comment on how a twenty-foot layer of human ashes came to be there in the
> first place. Perhaps he felt that to be unworthy of mention.)
>
> There are also piles of ashes at Maidanek. At Auschwitz-Birkenau, ashes
> from cremated corpses were dumped into the rivers and swamps surrounding
> the camp, and used as fertilizer for nearby farmers’ fields.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 29 15:20:43 EDT 1999
Article: 690447 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!
remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: polin <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I will pay for the Hydrokop map >>Geysers of blood in Lemberg
>>Eichmann: “I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen”
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:47:36 -0400
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690447
