Gruber, Grosvenor William

Newsgroups: can.general,edm.general
Subject: Eleven Questions William Grosvenor won’t answer
Summary: A growing list of questions dealing with lies and
distortions published to the net by the man calling
himself “William Grosvenor.”
Followup-To: can.general
Reply-To: [email protected]
Keywords: CGA Canada,Grosvenor,Gruber,Edmonton,Alberta

Archive/File: people/g/grosvenor.william/gruber-10q
Last-Modified: 2000/04/24

Mr. “Grosvenor,”

It would be unfair to label you as either a liar or
an irrational hater of Jews without offering you the
opportunity to explain the distortions and errors noted below.

As I am certain you are a busy chap, I will republish these
questions on a regular basis, in order to provide you with
ample time to deal with the issues raised. I will also add to
them, in the event you continue to publish similarly
misleading material.

Question 1

On May 13, 1996, you made the statement:

“Mind you,they do support the Jew Morgentaler and his murder
of unborn babies at his abortionariums.” (Grosvenor,
Jews for Faggots)

Question 1 is a two-parter:

1. What proof do you offer that this doctor is Jewish?
2. What difference would it make if he were?

Question 2

In May of 1996, you, Sir, made the following statements:

“In Alberta Canada Senator Ghitter,together with Bnai Brith
and other jewish groups are openly supporting special rights
for faggots and for more powers for the socalled human
rights commission.” (Grosvenor, Jews for Faggots)


“If you feel that faggots should not get special rights
at the expense of your dollars and those of all normal humans,
then join AFL – ANTI-FAGGOT LEAGUE.” (Grosvenor, Support AFL)


“I feel that they should NOT GET SPECIAL RIGHTS,even if the
faggot loving Canadian government wants to give them.”
(Grosvenor, Faggots Spread)


“Here in Alberta Senator Ghitter and the Bnai Brith are
supporting the faggots and lesbians. The groups want the Alberta
government to give special rights to the perverts,presumably as
one more attempt to destroy the traditional family.”
(Grosvenor, Why Are Jews)

The question, Mr. “Grosvenor,” is why you have lied about
B’nai Brith and others, who have not called upon the
government to “give special rights” to gays and/or

Question 3

On May 30, 1996, you posted the following article to an
Internet topical discussion group:

“Canadian news media report that the subject of the KOSHER
TAX is again under investigation by Revenue Canada Taxation.

“The story on the business page, states that many manufacturers,
such as for Saran Wrap, sanka Coffee,Mr.Clean, etc. must pay
extra fees to rabbis to have their products declared kosher.

“This extra cost is then passed on to every customer.

“Some people have been trying to claim the extra $300 per person
per year as a so-called charitable donation on their tax returns.
The tax department has disallowed this fraud, since no willing
charitable donation was given, nor a receipt provided.

“Apparently some non-Jews tried to claim this,and are now very
angry at being disallowed. To add insult to injury, they had no
choice in the costs of their purchases, since the extra costs
paid to the rabbis is buried in the total costs.”
(Grosvenor, Kosher Tax)

Here is the ACTUAL text of the article you cited:

“Tall tax tale isn’t kosher”

“Kosher Question: Can I claim a $300 kosher tax deduction for
buying Saran Wrap, Mr. Clean, Sanka and other products that
have been blessed by rabbis and identified by secret symbols?

“Answer: No. This old and vicious rumour is based on anti-Semitic
scapegoating that tries to blame Jews for higher prices – to pay
the rabbis – then claims Jews are the only ones who know the
secret symbols and claim the kosher deduction. It’s all false.”
(Chalmers, Ron. Edmonton Journal, Business section, “Money
Matters,” front page, May 29, 1996)

The question, of course, is why you misrepresented (to be
kind) the contents of this article?

Question 4

You wrote (September 1996):

“Ken OyVey, the maggot representing the Jewish Terrorist groups
including JDL…” (Grosvenor, OyVey Concerned)

Please provide the proof of your assertion that someone named
“Ken OyVey” represents any terrorist group.

Question 5

In the same article, you also said:

“The fact that Revenue Canada and the Auditor General of Canada
fingered the Bronfmans for moving 2 BILLION DOLLARS out of Canada
in contravention of Revenue Canada tax laws has also increased
anti-JEW feelings in Quebec.” (Ibid.)
contains the judgment of the Federal Court of Canada in this

Please demonstrate (1) that the government, in fact, “fingered”
the Bronfman family as you have described, and (2) provide
documentation supporting the assertion that the Bronfman
family has “increased anti-JEW feelings in Quebec.”

Take your time, Mr. Grosvenor.. I have several decades to
wait, although in your case it won’t matter.

Question 6

Moving right along, you added:

“The fact that the JEWS do not obey the French label laws for
foods imported into Quebec has of course antagonised the normal,
mainly Catholic residents of Quebec.” (Ibid.)

Please name the statute that the Quebec Jews are not obeying. Provide
a reference to the complete text – don’t bother reporting on it
yourself, you are an established liar and cannot be trusted in such
matters. Once you have made your case by doing that, we can move on to
the second part of the question.

Question 7

In full cry, you continued with:

“Notice that OyVey refuses to answer complaints about the actions
of the JEWS. Rather, it prefers to continue asking irrelevant
personal questions, based on false news clippings.But, what can
one expect from such as OyVey, who was for some reason relieved
from the US Military, according to other posts.” (Ibid.)

Please provide a precise reference for the “false news clippings”
which prompt “irrelevant personal questions.” Given your
history of frivolous litigation, explain why you have not sued
the publishers of these “false news clippings” for libel.

The second part of this question, of course, is to ask that you
identify this “OyVey” you seem to be obsessing over.

Question 8

Capping off your frenzy of vomitus, you conclude:

“One must also wonder about its’ sexual orientation, since he
is very favourably inclined to the AIDS carrying faggots. Is it
one of them,which is why it has no family or children??One must
wonder about other aspects of the background of this piece of
foreign excrement living in Canada.” (Ibid.)

Please identify this “it” that you are talking about in the
paragraph above, Mr. Grosvenor.

Question Nine

On October 3, 1996, you outdid yourself, Mr. Grosvenor, and
offered us a whopper that amazed even hardened Grosvenor

“Particularly when the respected International Red Cross stated
that only 320,000 Jews were unaccounted for as a result of the
war???”(Grosvenor, Don’t Forget)

I ask you to consider the following, Mr. Grosvenor, and then explain
your comment above after doing so:


Geneva, 10 May 1979

Unfortunately, we are not able to provide you with the figures
you are seeking, since the ICRC has never tried to compile
statistics on the victims of the war and has never certified
the accuracy of the statistics produced by a third party. In
fact, the basic aim of the ICRC is to come to the aid of
victims of armed conflicts and not to act as a commission of
enquiry or a statistics service.

With regard to the figure of 300,000 victims quoted on page 28
of the document you sent us, on 19 January 1955 the newspaper
“Die Tat” published an article (of which a photocopy is
enclosed) giving figures for the victims of the Second World
War, including that of 300,000.

As you will see upon reading this article, first, the figure
of 300,000 was not given by the ICRC and, secondly, it refers
only to the _German_ victims (Jews and non-Jews) of the
concentration camps. The authors of the booklet have therefore
doubly falsified their information, by claiming that the
figure relates to all the Jewish deportation victims and by
naming the ICRC as its source.


Yours faithfully,
R. Gaillard-Moret
Head of Documentation
and Dissemination

Question Ten

In a series of January 1997 articles, you included the following text:

“Since Ken McVay also operates out of a synagogue, wondering minds
now really want to know about what is he REALLY doing in the
synagogue???” (Grosvenor, KIDDIE PORN)

The challenge, of course, is simple – As I operate out of my
home, and am happily prepared to establish that fact in a court
of law, please provide some explanation of why you have claimed that I
do not.

Question Eleven

In early 1999, you claimed that a news article reported that a
Federal Court judge had “…ruled that the JEW Bronfmans must pay the
more than $700 Millions unpaid taxes!!!” (Grosvenor, Mudloon,
3 January 1999)

The actual Canadian Press article, however, said nothing of the

Why did you make this false claim?

Followups directed to can.general

[Work cited section follows]

Work Cited

Grosvenor, William. UseNet can.general,tor.general,ab.general,
Subject: “Support AFL – ANTI FAGGOT LEAGUE,” May 6, 1996,
Message-ID: [email protected], archived in
(one line)

——————. Usenet alt.revisionism. Subject: “Jews for
Faggots in Alberta,” May 13, 1996. Message-Id: [email protected]
archived in (one line)

——————. UseNet edm.general,ab.general,can.general,
Message-ID: [email protected], archived in
(one line)

——————. UseNet ab.general,can.general,alt.revisionism,
tor.general,calgary.general,van.general, Subject: “Why are Jews
Supporting Faggots?,” May 15 1996, Message-ID:
[email protected], archived in

——————. UseNet alt.revisionism, Subject: “KOSHER TAX
in Canada,” May 30, 1996, Message-ID:
[email protected],
archived within

——————. UseNet alt.revisionism,can.general,qc.general,
mtl.general. Subject: “OyVey Concerned About Quebec JEWS,”
Date: Sep 27, 1996, Message-ID:
[email protected]

——————. UseNet alt.revisionism, Subject: “Re: DON’T FORGET
JEW SET UP CHEKA FOR COMMIES,” October 3, 1996, Message-ID:
archived within

——————. UseNet ns.general. Subject: “SYNAGOGUE CANTOR
Message-Id: [email protected]

——————. UseNet: ont.general,qc.general,mtl.general.
Message-Id: [email protected]

——————. UseNet soc.culture.lebanon,alt.revisionism.
Message-Id: [email protected]

——————. UseNet alt.culture.saudi,alt.illuminati. Subject:
Message-Id: [email protected]

——————. UseNet: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.german, Subject: “SYNAGOGUE LEADER IS KIDDIE PORN
CRIMINAL!!!,” January 8, 1997
Message-Id: [email protected]

——————. UseNet: soc.culture.canada,can.general,
alt.white-power, Subject: “COURT ORDERS JEW
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

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Subject: rev: Ken McVay, per Danny Keren, unemployable bum (fwd)
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———- Forwarded message ———-
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:00:04 GMT
From: Luke Gopherstomper <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ken McVay, as per Danny Keren, unemployable bum

Here is the drunken wino’s (as per YFE) home page.

Speaking of himself in the third person he says

Ken McVay

Ken McVay is a retired 56-year-old Vancouver Island man who has been one
of theleaders in developing and carrying out community based and grass roots
strategies for countering the lies of those promoting hatred on the Internet.”

Given his early retirement (and no mention of the actual year in which it
occurred so it was certainly at a younger age) we have here, in the judgement of
OBCon volunteer Danny Keren, an unemployable bum. Woud Danny lie to you?

The next line

The work McVay’s been doing, now known as The Nizkor Project, has consumed
more than five years of his life.”

That it has consumed five years of his life, the implication is that he
has been an unemployable bum since age 51. Not a bad record of bumhood.
Perhaps that explains why he has said an eye magazine interview years ago that
if his computer failed he could not replace it. That is, the dole would not
stretch that far.

The picture emerging here is of a male welfare queen.

Mauving right along.

“He was compelled to counter the deceit of holocaust deniers and
hate mongers after running across grossly antisemitic material on
the Internet in January of 1992. It had been posted by Dan
Gannon, from Portland, Oregon, and included large doses of
neo-Nazi propaganda.”

“Alarmed and disgusted with the nature of this material, McVay began making
trips to the local library in search of Holocaust information, and borrowing
armloads of books on the subject.”

If this is true then he started posting against Mr. Gannon BEFORE he did
any research whatsoever. But then given the digusting nature of the posts of
his volunteers it is difficult to understand just what can disgust this man.
Obviously the most obscene material in the english language has NEVER disgusted
him. Exposing young people to such language has never bothered him in
the least. It is unclear just what is the threshold of his disgust.

And the next part …

“He began what has now become his life’s work, rereading many of the three
hundred books about World War II that he had read as a teenager and reading for
the first time countless additional books specifically about the Holocaust. He
transcribed relevant information into his computer and then used this
documentation to refute the specific claims made by Mr. Gannon.”

For those who know OBCon from this newsgroup there is clearly no
indication of this quantity of reading unless he has a serious retention
problem. He posts ignorantly of the best known details and posts well known
incorrect items as true. He is well behind the curve of the Discovery Channel
in his knowledge of WW II as everyone has read.

And you will note that transcribed in this case means pirated. And as
those who have read his pirated material know, he relies upon third hand,
derivative sources while Mr. Gannon relied upon original sources. If this was a
defense of the holocaust, only a holohugger could give him a win in any case.

The next line is interesting.

“Unemployed at the time, McVay often spent 18 to 20 hours a day typing, and soon
found that he had somehow amassed over 3500 pages of information. As the flood
of information increased, so did demands for the information; requests inundated
McVay’s electronic mailbox, and he soon found himself a defacto, full-time
Holocaust researcher and librarian to the world of the Internet.”

Unemployed at the time, that time being five years before present making
him at least an unemployable bum since age 50. Danny Keren sure can identify
bums from a mile aware. So here we have an unashamed welfare queen sucking off
the teat of the productive in British Columbia. Instead of offering to sell his
research services to get off of the dole, he indulges himself at the expense of
the BC taxpayer.

There is always a market for research, typing and computer skills. Does
he try to make a living with them? No. He sucks off of the public dole rather
than earn an honest living. And in return what did BC get for its years of
supporting him? The greatest contribution to the cause of censoring the
internet ever to be found in one conference. Almost forget, the strangest
collection of eyewitness testimony to the physically impossible ever to be put
in one place.

Next point.

“Today he is building one of the most extensive and thorough information sources
about the Holocaust and the activities of racists and white supremacists in the
world. McVay and his team of volunteers devote countless hours to the
maintenance and improvement of this massive collection – hours which represented
over one-and-a-half million dollars worth of donated effort by mid-1995.”

The copious copyright violations have been noted as well as the content.
The new point to note here is that the volunteers have grown from 65 in the
award of the OBC to 160 in a recent speech. Yet there have never been more than
8 listed on his website.

And of course we all know of the subhuman obscenities his male and female
volunteers post in public for young people to read. We also note that his
stated purpose is for young people to read the material his supporters post.

Why does this man AND British Columbia, want young people to read such
language from his volunteers? It is the impressionable young people who read
their obscenities and it is the impressionable young people are used to justify
the obscenities. This is all very strange.

Mauving right along

“Today he is building one of the most extensive and thorough information sources
about the Holocaust and the activities of racists and white supremacists in the
world. McVay and his team of volunteers devote countless hours to the
maintenance and improvement of this massive collection – hours which represented
over one-and-a-half million dollars worth of donated effort by mid-1995.”

What needs to be noted is that this quantity was accomplished by avoiding
such legal niceties as “by permission of the author” and so forth.

As to the cash value of the effort, that depends strongly upon the
imputed cash value of the time. We do have a basis for cost estimating. That
basis is the claim that Mr. McVay put 3500 pages on line while on the BC dole.

Then next step in the cost estimate comes in the next paragraph.

“At the moment, McVay is directing a massive effort to construct what will
arguably become the world’s largest Holocaust-resource Web site, one which will
offer well over a gigabyte of material within the next few years, including the
entire transcripts of the Nuremberg Trials. (Since May 1995, the Nizkor team has
placed 2,980 pages on the world-wide web, and delivered an astounding one
million pages of text via Nizkor’s aging 486, which was retired in February of

So here we have a ratio that is suitable for any High School exam, 3500
pages is to 2980 pages as one and one half million dollars (even Canadian) is to
X. Find X.

That means over six years the British Columbina welfare system paid Mr.
McVay 1.277 million dollars Canadian.

Dear British Columbia. Is this true or is Mr. OBC lying on behalf of the
Province? Please respond in detail. If he is telling the truth, can you
suggest a motel for me to stay at while I sign up?

As a matter of truth that I am aware of the 486 was retired as a server
in May 1996 after Matt Giwer made many unacknowledged contributions in pointing
out its inherent inadequacy.

Next we have

“The Nizkor sites have proven themselves invaluable tools for Holocaust
researchers, the media, students, and those concerned with the alarming rise of
neo-Nazi activity on the Internet. The Nizkor network utilizes six servers,
spread over two continents, to deliver it’s information.”

There are several claims here As to the servers, that is no more than an
artifact of the ISLAND.NET that hosts Nizkor. It has no bearing upon the truth
as only the computer illiterate would be impressed by the claim.

As to the “invaluable tool” claim, Matt Giwer is currently conducting a
survey of prominent teachers of the holocaust regarding the value of Nizkor.
Results will be posted when there are a significant number of replies.

Next …

“In recognition of the value of McVay’s work to the people and province, he was
awarded the Order of British Columbia in 1995 – the highest honour the
Provincial government can bestow upon a citizen*, and a special Media Human
Rights Award, presented by B’nai Brith Canada in March of 1996.”

And more interesting it appears that not only does British Columbia honor
obscenity for young people on the internet but also B’nai Brith Canada promotes
such vile obscentities for young people. What is Canada’s Dudley Doright image
coming to?

Next …

“Ken now travels extensively throughout North America, conducting workshops and
seminars dealing with Holocaust denial and hate speech on the Internet.”

While it is technically true that Canada is North America and that he has
on rare occasions been south of the border a few tens of miles in this regard,
the very statement is grossly deceptive. And if is of course absolutely true
that he has NEVER ONCE spoken upon the vulgar obscenities his supporters and
volunteers post for young people to read. He has never spoken of his plausible
deniability in being responsible for it.

He has never credited B’nai Brith Canada for promoting this kind of
vulgar obscenity for young people to read on the internet.

He has never credited British Columbia with promoting this disgrace to
cultured people everywhere around the world.


Spielberg bought an Oscar with a Schindler.
“Fight hate with obsenity.” OBCon