Documents

Green Richard 3

In article [email protected],
Matt Giwer wrote:

> If the best reference anyone can find is OSHA then one has to
>suspect that more relevent and established sources do not agree
>with OSHA.

Perhaps Mr. Giwer would kind enough to post one of these “more relevent
and established sources.”

Does Mr. Giwer assert that OSHA is wrong? Yes or No?

Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

Shofar FTP Archive File: people//g/green.richard.j/green.0696
From [email protected] Sat Jun 1 09:57:23 PDT 1996
Article: 40479 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: 31 May 1996 11:01:58 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080

From [email protected] Sun Jun 2 10:20:12 PDT 1996
Article: 40644 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: 31 May 1996 22:54:44 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<4oni7[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>

>>I assumed correctly that Mr. Giwer would only be familiar with the
>>Bronsted-Lowry definition of acidity. Rather than confuse him, I’m
>>willing to concede that CO2 itself is not a Brosted-Lowry acid. CO2
>>solvated in water, however (most gases are soluble to some extent in
>>water), in in fact a Bronsted-Lowry acid. The average tropospheric
>>pressure of CO2 is about 330 ppm. As a result of the solvation of this
>>CO2 in water, ambient water is not pH 7 but pH 5.6.
>
> I am certain Bilik is able to speak for himself without you
>attempting to speak for him.

Mr. Giwer is unfamiliar with how usenet works perhaps. When I see Mr.
Giwerr willfully misinterpreting others, I will certainly feel free to
jump in.

>>> There are two phases of CO2, gas and solid. In solution is a
>>>chemical reaction, not a phase. You are lying and you are a
>>>liar.
>
>>At atmospheric pressure, Mr. Giwer is correct that there are two phases
>>of CO2. At other pressures liquid CO2 can exist. Mr. Giwer is somewhat
>>justified in calling the solvation of CO2 in water a reaction. He can
>>demonstrate no justification for calling either Richard Schultz or me a
>>liar, however.
>
> Do you really prefer willfully deceitful?

When Mr. Giwer knows he is wrong, he resorts to ad hominem attacks. He
can present no evidence of willfull deceit on my part.

>>> At this point it is very interesting question as to the depths of
>>>deception these two chemist will sink to in order to promote even
>>>the most peripheral errors of a fellow holohuggers.
>
>>Dr. Bilik made no error. He assumed that you would be familiar enough
>>with what he was talking about when he referred to CO2 as an acid.
>
> I have no idea of any degrees this person might have. He said
>CO2 is an acid. CO2 is not an acid. Unless you are capable of
>mind reading, you have no idea what he meant. And he can speak
>for himself. He does not need you to speak for him.

Dr. Bilik has an MD. He referred to the acidity of CO2 in a way that
anyone who got beyond freshman chemistry would understand. I agree with
you that CO2 is not a Bronsted-Lowry acid. It is, however, a Lewis
acide, but that’s beside the point.

> As noted, one more example of holohuggers coming to the defense
>of other holohuggers.

When Mr. Giwer knows he is wrong he resorts to ad hominem attacks.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Sun Jun 2 21:46:34 PDT 1996
Article: 40735 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:36:30 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>I assumed correctly that Mr. Giwer would only be familiar with the
>>>>>>Bronsted-Lowry definition of acidity. Rather than confuse him, I’m
>>>>>>willing to concede that CO2 itself is not a Brosted-Lowry acid. CO2
>>>>>>solvated in water, however (most gases are soluble to some extent in
>>>>>>water), in in fact a Bronsted-Lowry acid. The average tropospheric
>>>>>>pressure of CO2 is about 330 ppm. As a result of the solvation of this
>>>>>>CO2 in water, ambient water is not pH 7 but pH 5.6.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am certain Bilik is able to speak for himself without you
>>>>>attempting to speak for him.
>>>
>>>>Mr. Giwer is unfamiliar with how usenet works perhaps. When I see Mr.
>>>>Giwerr willfully misinterpreting others, I will certainly feel free to
>>>>jump in.
>>>
>>> I fail to see how saying CO2 is CO2 in a misinterpretation.
>>>Perhaps you can explain that WITHOUT telling me what he “really”
>>>meant.
>
>>Mr. Giwer claimed without qualification that CO2 is not an acid.
>>Dr. Bilik’s reference to the acidity of CO2 was understandable to
>>anyone having the least bit of education in chemistry.
>
> There was never any question that you are unethical, unprincipled
>and a deceitful person.
>
> You are convicted by your own words.

Proof that Mr. Giwer knows he is wrong: he resorts to ad hominem
attacks.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 08:18:22 PDT 1996
Article: 40754 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: 1 Jun 1996 16:04:40 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>I assumed correctly that Mr. Giwer would only be familiar with the
>>>>Bronsted-Lowry definition of acidity. Rather than confuse him, I’m
>>>>willing to concede that CO2 itself is not a Brosted-Lowry acid. CO2
>>>>solvated in water, however (most gases are soluble to some extent in
>>>>water), in in fact a Bronsted-Lowry acid. The average tropospheric
>>>>pressure of CO2 is about 330 ppm. As a result of the solvation of this
>>>>CO2 in water, ambient water is not pH 7 but pH 5.6.
>>>
>>> I am certain Bilik is able to speak for himself without you
>>>attempting to speak for him.
>
>>Mr. Giwer is unfamiliar with how usenet works perhaps. When I see Mr.
>>Giwerr willfully misinterpreting others, I will certainly feel free to
>>jump in.
>
> I fail to see how saying CO2 is CO2 in a misinterpretation.
>Perhaps you can explain that WITHOUT telling me what he “really”
>meant.

Mr. Giwer claimed without qualification that CO2 is not an acid.
Dr. Bilik’s reference to the acidity of CO2 was understandable to
anyone having the least bit of education in chemistry.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 08:18:22 PDT 1996
Article: 40778 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: 1 Jun 1996 15:53:08 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>>> If the best reference anyone can find is OSHA then one has to
>>>suspect that more relevent and established sources do not agree
>>>with OSHA.
>
>>Perhaps Mr. Giwer would kind enough to post one of these “more relevent
>>and established sources.”
>
>>Does Mr. Giwer assert that OSHA is wrong? Yes or No?
>
> I have no idea. Nor would I expect you to be doing anything but
>playing another game intended to deceive people as you lack
>integrity.
>
> If you knew what you were doing you would certainly have cited
>the organization OSHA contracted to produce the information you
>are going to pretend to cite. I hope you are not under the
>impression OSHA creates this stuff on their own.
>
> But if you are then you will need to cite the credentials of the
>individuals responsible.
>
> Anyone stupid enough to believe a faceless bureaucracy has a lot
>to learn about the real world.

Mr. Giwer admits that he had absolutely no basis for claiming that
cyanosis was not a symptom of CO poisoning and that all victims of CO
poisoning would look pinkish. Thanks for playing.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 08:18:23 PDT 1996
Article: 40779 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cosmic Slop
Date: 1 Jun 1996 16:07:40 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 190
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:

[tasteless racist joke deleted]

> But of course merely posting this will be called antisemitic by
>the idiots.

Is Matt Giwer an antisemite? You be the judge:

>From [email protected] Sat Mar 23 14:39:28 PST 1996
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Is Giwer a Troll? Message-ID:
<[email protected]>

You pathetic, primative bastards are all alike.

You folks should get your sociologic parallels straight. David and
Montezuma were equals. Today’s Jews are adhering to a social form that
died out in the civilized world thousands of years ago. By any
definition today’s Jews are a living anachronism that should be
preserved under some endangered species act.

Just as we do not disturb the strange tribes of the Amazon we
should not disturb the strange tribes of Juda or David.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Matt Giwer)
said:

I don’t know how to indentify jews. Why don’t you tell me?

The nose, the funny hats, the names, the beards, the “I want a
Mercedes” whine? How are they identifiable? What identifies them?
Ask three jews what is a jew and you get four opinions. Maybe you
can do better.

>From [email protected] Sun Mar 17 16:36:49 PST 1996
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Neo-Nazi spin on upholding of Canadian “hate-speech” l
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Right, come get me, it will make my religous fervor come true.

I know it is going to happen so just say anything and I will
know I am being persecuted. I can be a martyr! Please let me take a
number for a gas chamber.

You assholes sound just like the nuns with the glossy eyes
talking about the Christian martyrs.

I don’t really mean to interrupt your sexual arousal but please
stop inflicting this upon the rest of the world.

Article 83469 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Jeremy A. Litt)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Michael is a big, fat idiot like Rush Limbaugh
Followup-To: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
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Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

: You lovers of a hyphenated god need to grow up.

Article 89860 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 07:02:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
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References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> But of course in either case a more complete work up or pathology
>>needs be done. And again I note references to color are rather
>>rare. And it was striking the first place we find the right
>>indication for cyanide it is in a camp that used CO where if
>>there was any mention of color it should have been of pink.

>Does Mr. Giwer disagree with OSHA on cyanosis being a symptom of CO
>poisoning?

You are of course a willfully deceitful, character assassinating,
atheist Jew. Now I have no idea what game you are trying to play
at this point in the message but I have said nothing about OSHA
so why do you not post it first? Or so you disagree with the
NAVSEA manual on turbine exhaust poisoning? But of course, YOU
FIRST! I made up mine. you deal with yours first.

>> But as a bottom line we really should not make too much of the
>>color. It was simply striking by its rarity and being in the
>>wrong place.

>Translation: Mr. Giwer recognizes he was wrong, but as usual will not
>admit it.

A better translation is

You are of course a willfully deceitful, character assassinating,
atheist Jew.

But if this is not clear enough I can and have gone further in
noting that all the Jews in this conference have condoned your
behavior by their silence and are no better than you. And that
includes all of them and yes, that means you.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 02:41:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]m>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

And further proof that our California Chemist has to be an
atheist. Or perhaps he has split a rabbinic hair and determined
that it refers only to citizens of Israel.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 04:23:03 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

With people like you it is becoming easier and easier to believe
the Talmud really does encourage lying to Goyim. If the Talmud
does not say it, you should insist upon its inclusion in the next
revision.

Article 91061 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Cosmic Slop
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 07:45:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
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>From the first episode:

A black barber speaks to a black customer.

Did I ever tell you about the American dream? Every nigger
swimming back to Africa … with a Jew under each arm.

=====

But of course merely posting this will be called antisemitic by
the idiots.

—-
Eyewitness testimony to the physically impossible is only
evidence that he was not an eyewitness.

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 08:18:24 PDT 1996
Article: 40812 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: 1 Jun 1996 15:56:55 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote a blatant lie:

> I am still waiting for someone to recognize where the blue lips
>detail comes from. You have already established that it would
>not happen and thus, despite this “true eyewitness” relating it,
>the story is false.
>
> Where do you think this incorrect detail came from?

What is Mr. Giwer’s source to show that the detail is incorrect?

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 08:18:25 PDT 1996
Article: 40813 of alt.revisionism
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not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: 1 Jun 1996 16:01:15 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:

>>So, I have to defend myself and a chemist is unskilled ?
>
> I have no idea if he is skilled or not. I do know he will say
>anything to mislead people into believing something about his
>cherished holocaust is true even though it is a clear deception.

Mr. Giwer can present no evidence of deception on my part.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 11:09:22 PDT 1996
Article: 40842 of alt.revisionism
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not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:31:50 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

> Thank you for demonstrating the color claims are lies made up by
>some unknown person or persons.
>
> You folks really do not realize what you have been doing in the
>least. Do you remember the “useful in the future” routine?
>Guess what? The future is now. Go review the few color
>references and explain why the few color mentions of cyanide
>poisoning are pink rather than cyanotic.
>
> It is up to you. Salvage the color claims. Do so. It is all in
>your hands.

I have no interest in salvaging any claims. If Mr. Giwer suggests that
some claim is untrue, perhaps he could post the claim along with
evidence that it cannot be true. Thus far he has done neither.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Mon Jun 3 11:09:22 PDT 1996
Article: 40844 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:38:46 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>>>>So, I have to defend myself and a chemist is unskilled ?
>>>
>>> I have no idea if he is skilled or not. I do know he will say
>>>anything to mislead people into believing something about his
>>>cherished holocaust is true even though it is a clear deception.
>
>>Mr. Giwer can present no evidence of deception on my part.
>
> Those who cited you as the authority to claim that I was lying
>know it. But of course holohuggers stick together and lie for
>each other.
>
> You know it happened. You know you read it happening without
>correcting anyone. You know what you did.
>
> You can not be an observant Jew as no observant Jew would do such
>a thing. You are an atheist and therefore do not feel bound by
>any of the principles that that have kept Jews together for
>centuries.
>
> You are trading off of birth to claim something you do no
>deserve.

The fact that I am an atheist is irrelevent to the discussion except
that Mr. Giwer has now proved that he knows he was wrong. Mr. Giwer’s
method of admitting he was wrong is to engage in ad hominem attack.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Wed Jun 12 16:25:57 PDT 1996
Article: 42868 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!

thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!

godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!

newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!

spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!

news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,sci.chem
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: 12 Jun 1996 10:06:37 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:42868 sci.chem:37088

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:

>>> Of course everyone agrees, even our chemists, that there is no chemical
>>>reaction and that they would be grey not blue. But then this man saw
>>>blue. How can we explain an eyewitness seeing something he could not
>>>see?
>
>>As Mr. Giwer knows Mr. Mazal has documented that one of the forms of
>>Zyklon-B was silica gel impregnated with HCN. Has Mr. Giwer never seen
>>blue silica gel?
>
> And everyone also knows that is pure bullshit and that the Zyklon B was
>HCN in a diatomite carrier. It is all right there on Nizkor. (Use the
>powerful search engine to find it for yourself. I have posted it here
>once.)

Is it Mr. Giwer’s assertion that there is only one form of Zyklon B?
Yes or no?

> You are join “Mr. Mazel” in the lying and/or idiot category.

Mr. Giwer’s ad hominem attacks should be understood as an admission that
he is wrong. Experience has led me to believe that Mr. Giwer is not at
all interested in serious conversation. While he can sound superficially
plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond except to make it clear that his arguments cannot be taken
seriously. For detailed and documented evidence of this behaviour,
please refer to

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

“Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish
reputation for integrity by saying only Jew and thus
implying that we is observant?” –Matt Giwer
(Translation into English not yet available.)
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“I’ve never been lost, but I’ve been confused for weeks on end.”
-John Muir

From [email protected] Wed Jun 12 16:25:58 PDT 1996
Article: 42869 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!

thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!

newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!

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swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!

fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,sci.chem
Subject: Re: Where did all the ashes go?
Date: 12 Jun 1996 10:10:17 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:42869 sci.chem:37089

In article <[email protected]>,
Matt Giwer wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> All very interesting but you will remember that our California
>>>>>>> chemist was playing his game of deception by stating that the
>>>>>>> bone ash was an oxide of calcium, trioxide I believe. If you
>>>>>>> want it to be something else I would suggest you take it up with
>>>>>>> him, develop a consistent story, and get back to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Notice as that Giwer has been shown to be an ignorant fool without the
>>>>>>simplest knowledge of chemistry- or how to use a dictionary -he runs away
>>>>>>from his claim that bone ash (calcium phosphate) is NOT a fertilizer? Yep,
>>>>>>he runs just like a whipped dog, tail tucked between his legs and yelping
>>>>>>all the way!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry but you have just pointed out that the California chemist was not
>>>>>telling the truth or perhaps you are not. He said it was one thing; you
>>>>>claim it is something else. Who am I supposed to believe? Or are you
>>>>>both lying?
>>>
>>>>Mr. Giwer cannot provide an example of Mr. Van Alstine and I making
>>>>different claims about bone ash. Perhaps, that’s due to Mr. Giwer’s
>>>>ignoarnce of freshman-level oxidation-reduction chemistry.
>>>
>>> Just a couple days ago you corrected me by saying that you were talking
>>>about CaO2 vice CaO3. What are you claiming you were talking about now?
>
>>Mr. Giwer can present no evidence of me claiming either of those species
>>is present in bone ash.
>
> Why should I? It was your clearly misleading implication.

Mr. Giwer can show no evidence for his assertion. I’m beginning to
suspect that he doesn’t know what he is talking about.

>>CaO2 is atleast a conceivable compound:
>>calcium superoxide. I would be very interested in any information Mr.
>>Giwer can present on the existence of CaO3. I would find it even more
>>interesting to see how Mr. Giwer assigns oxidation numbers to such a
>>compound. No the only claim I made was that calcium was in its +2
>>oxidation state, something that Mr. Giwer doesn’t seem to understand.
>
> A total retraction of your previous implications. You are clearly
>intent upon deception.

Mr. Giwer can present no evidence of a retraction on my part.

> Go away and take your shit ass university with you. You taint it.

Mr. Giwer’s ad hominem attack on me and his attack on Stanford
University should be interpreted as an admission that he didn’t know
what he was talking about.

URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

From [email protected] Fri Jun 14 12:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 43175 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!

thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!news.dal.ca!torn!newsfeed.

internetmci.com!news.cftnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.

inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.

Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gibberish…
Date: 12 Jun 1996 10:48:59 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Schultz wrote:
>Yale F. Edeiken ([email protected]) wrote:
>: > [email protected] (Prince Myshkin) writes:
>
>: > What stories are you talking about? Please be specific in your
>: > response.
>
>: Shall we name a few:
>
>: 1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the “United
>: Nations”;
>: 2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>: 3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>: 4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in
>: the Katyn Wood massacre;
>: 5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of “steaming” people to death;
>: 6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>: 7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building
>: the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>: 8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy
>: in Washington;
>: 9. That “Miranda rights” were not in use in the miliary justice
>: system prior to the Miranda decision;
>: 10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the
>: United Nations . . . .. .
>
> 11. That Israel has a written constitution;
> 12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
> 13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
> 14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted
> only one day. . . .

15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
20. That the calcium in bones burns.
21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“I’ve never been lost, but I’ve been confused for weeks on end.”
-John Muir

From [email protected] Sun Jun 16 08:40:20 PDT 1996
Article: 43575 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!

newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!

imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!olivea!samba.rahul.net!

rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.i

nternex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: 15 Jun 1996 00:23:35 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]tcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>Richard J. Green wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, I know that they are not really crystals. Neither are opals.
>> Nonchemists can be forgiven for the confusion.
>
>The geologists among us forgive you for the assumption that only
>chemists know crystals. ;>
>

Fair enough. From now on all geologists will be expected to know.
🙂

Rich Green

From [email protected] Sun Jun 16 08:40:21 PDT 1996
Article: 43806 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.mindspring.com!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: 15 Jun 1996 23:15:52 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:

> Excuse me but your favorite pharamacist was “excused” for not know what
>a crystal is. All you are saying is that he is as ignorant as I of
>chemisty. Even more so as I have consistantly pointed to the crystal
>nonsense.

No, that’s not what I said.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish reputation for
integrity by saying only Jew and thus implying that we is observant?”
–Matt Giwer (Translation into English not yet available.)

From [email protected] Sun Jun 16 19:00:53 PDT 1996
Article: 43902 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cftnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Communism is Jewish – Giwer goofs again!
Date: 16 Jun 1996 12:30:29 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:59515 alt.politics.usa.republican:217530 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:322946 alt.politics.perot:49144 alt.revisionism:43902

I am a Jew and an atheist.

Regards,

Rich Green
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish reputation for
integrity by saying only Jew and thus implying that we is observant?”
–Matt Giwer (Translation into English not yet available.)

From [email protected] Sun Jun 16 21:16:13 PDT 1996
Article: 43953 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: 16 Jun 1996 16:13:08 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> wrote:
>
>>> Excuse me but your favorite pharamacist was “excused” for not know what
>>>a crystal is. All you are saying is that he is as ignorant as I of
>>>chemisty. Even more so as I have consistantly pointed to the crystal
>>>nonsense.
>
>>No, that’s not what I said.
>
> Are the >s wrong in this message?
>
>Keith Morrison wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>> Keith Morrison wrote:
>>>
>>> >Richard J. Green wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, I know that they are not really crystals. Neither are opals.
>>> >> Nonchemists can be forgiven for the confusion.
>>>
>>> >The geologists among us forgive you for the assumption that only
>>> >chemists know crystals. ;>
>>>
>>> Do you forgive for his assumption that a pharmacist never took high
>>> school chemistry?
>
>>Before you go of spouting about chemistry, perhaps you would
>>like to inform the audience what “oxidation state” refers to
>>when talking about atoms and such?
>
> Excuse me but your favorite pharamacist was “excused” for not know what
>a crystal is. All you are saying is that he is as ignorant as I of
>chemisty. Even more so as I have consistantly pointed to the crystal
>nonsense.

No. Nonchemists in general were excused. Pressac clearly knows, thus
his emphasis on the word “crytals.” If you have evidence that Pressac
does not know what a cystal is, please post it.

> So obiously I know more than he does about chemistry as that is so
>fundamental.

Perhaps, you’d like to educate us about oxidation-reduction chemistry.
Oh, I forgot your high school chemistry course didn’t cover that.
>
>

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish reputation for
integrity by saying only Jew and thus implying that we is observant?”
–Matt Giwer (Translation into English not yet available.)

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 07:37:56 PDT 1996
Article: 43969 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!nntp.uac.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: 16 Jun 1996 12:12:02 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>
>>: I remember this one. It was when you were trying to deceive people
>>: into believing there could be no HCN production from coke flue gases.
>
>>The man never gives up. It’s amazing. Reading this sort of thing brings
>>to mind phrases like “objective correlative.” It has been explained to
>>Giwer any number of times that the “coke flue gases” that contain HCN
>>are *not* from the burning of coke, but from the *production* of coke,
>>which is done under oxygen free conditions. And yet he continues to
>>accuse other people of being deceptive, when he is trying to make it
>>look like “coke flue gases” have anything whatsoever to do with the
>>crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>
> As you know, Sgt. Schutz, my one connection was “probably more” and yet
>you continue to maintain that the flue gas as a source is really
>distilation. You further pretend that a banked fire is not oxygen
>starved which is all that is required.

Do I understand correctly that Mr. Giwer is now disavowing his previous
claim that burning coke produces HCN?

Do I understand correctly that Mr. Giwer is now disavowing his previous
claim that burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN?

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish reputation for
integrity by saying only Jew and thus implying that we is observant?”
–Matt Giwer (Translation into English not yet available.)

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 12:14:23 PDT 1996
Article: 44055 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.mindspring.com!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At least part of the Degesh publication
Date: 16 Jun 1996 20:39:16 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
>>>>>>>a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess –
>>>>>>>Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.
>>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>
>>>>>>Which true truth is Mr. Giwer peddling today?
>>>>>
>>>>> You, too, are confusing the Degesh pub with the public health document
>>>>>from Prague. As we know, the SS did not buy from Prague.
>>>
>>>>Is it Mr. Giwer’s argument that this public health document is a
>>>>forgery?
>>>
>>> I have no argument. I have the clearly true and correct statement that
>>>the Degesh publication does not mention “Erco” whatever that is supposed
>>>to be.
>>>
>>> I can not put it into the Degesh pub. You can not put it into the
>>>Degesh pub. Sorry.
>
>>Either the document posted which mentions ERCO is accurate or it isn’t.
>>The fact that not every publication mentions all three possible supports
>>is irrelevant. BTW – Dr. Keren published a URL to see information from
>>Dr. Peters of Degesch that confirms that ERCO was used as a support. Is
>>it the case that Mr. Giwer was ignorant of the use of ERCO or is it the
>>case that he is not being completely forthright?
>
> You do need to learn to read some time. I have said it was not in the
>Degesh publication that the holohuggers were saying supported their
>position but just never could fine the time to post. I started looking
>and found both documents almost immediately.

How many Degesh publications are there? What is Mr. Giwer’s evidence that
anyone was referring to what he posted?

>
> But specifically as to that scan of a single page, There is not even a
>caption to the picture of the page. There is nothing indicating the
>different purposes to which the different carriers were used. However
>we do have a specific purpose in the Degesh publication.
>
> We do know that from a Degesh publication entitled “Kyklon for Pest
>Control” we have a specific purpose for this carrier and there is one
>and only carrier mentioned. We also know from the weight of myth on
>this subject that the type used for pest control is the type that was
>supposedly used on people. Therefore this is a description of the type
>that was supposedly used for gassing people.
>
> QED

What was the Zyklon with ERCO support used for if not pest control?
I suggest that Mr. Giwer learn elementary logic.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 17:21:16 PDT 1996
Article: 44088 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OS/2 is an Operating System?
Date: 17 Jun 1996 10:27:04 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Gord McFee wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Richard J. Green) said:
>
>>>Can you
>>>prove–primary sources only–that the alleged poster of the alleged post
>is
>>>an alleged Canadian? Have you ever studied chemistry? Well, I took one
>>>course in Grade 12, and I can prove that apples are not always red, or is
>it
>>>not always green? Green? Aha!!
>
>>You need to learn how to set up a web-browser. I would be glad to help
>>for $2000/minute. Obviously, you have your rgb values set all wrong.
>
>Perhaps, but what about my rjg values? I’ve got you Green; why don’t you
>just ‘fess up?

Yet. No one will correct you on your errs.

>>>You’re an apple, which means you secretly
>>>use a Mac, which means you are not a UNIX geek, which proves conclusively
>>>that the Holocaust didn’t happen. Gads, I’m as smart as the Giwer-troll
>and
>>>Moron.
>
>>Apple was the Beatles label. Zundel doesn’t know how to kill beetles.
>>Therefore, you are not John Lennon. You have lied about your credentials.
>>You must be a Leninist like Mussolini.
>
>So? Another true truth from a UNIX user?

Ask George Martin not me. It is your religious belief.
Deal with it.

>>>>>>>Mr. McFee is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>>>>>>>interest is in causing fights over which is the best operating system.
>
>>>>>>>While he can sound superficially plausible, he has advertised the
>>>>>>>superiority of OS2 while ignoring the manifest superiority of unix
>>>>>
>>>>>>I _KNEW_ there was something phoney about that guy McFee!
>>>>>
>>>>>Damn! I’ve been exposed (so to speak).
>>>
>>>>At least you admit that unix is manifestly superior.
>>>
>>>No, I admit I have been exposed, so to speak. Are you Marduk?
>
>>Yet no one will challenge your so to speak. You are just playing word
>>games. There is no point in talking to you. You know nothing about
>>German.
>
>Obviously not, but I drink beer. Does that makes me a beer nut?

Well then you should buy the next roung.

>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>2 words: UNIX POWER!
>>>>>
>>>>>>14 Words: We must secure the future of UNIX and its children and crush
>>>the
>>>>>>WOG! (Windows Occupation Government)
>>>>>
>>>>>*That* I agree with.
>>>
>>>>Operating systems that do not operate only prove that they are not
>>>>operating systems.
>>>
>>>Death to WOG. Death to FOG. Long live GROG! (I know McVay will agree
>with
>>>that one).
>>>
>>>BTW, are you the same Richard Green that played Robin Hood on TV in the
>>>’50s?
>
>>That was Marduk.
>
>Can’t be. You and I are Marduk.

Another contradictory two truth from the OS2 lobby. Yet Ostrov claims
that it’s not true. Get your stories straight and then get back to me.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 23:24:20 PDT 1996
Article: 44113 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: 17 Jun 1996 09:54:28 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>
>>>>: I remember this one. It was when you were trying to deceive people
>>>>: into believing there could be no HCN production from coke flue gases.
>>>
>>>>The man never gives up. It’s amazing. Reading this sort of thing brings
>>>>to mind phrases like “objective correlative.” It has been explained to
>>>>Giwer any number of times that the “coke flue gases” that contain HCN
>>>>are *not* from the burning of coke, but from the *production* of coke,
>>>>which is done under oxygen free conditions. And yet he continues to
>>>>accuse other people of being deceptive, when he is trying to make it
>>>>look like “coke flue gases” have anything whatsoever to do with the
>>>>crematoria at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>>>
>>> As you know, Sgt. Schutz, my one connection was “probably more” and yet
>>>you continue to maintain that the flue gas as a source is really
>>>distilation. You further pretend that a banked fire is not oxygen
>>>starved which is all that is required.
>
>>Do I understand correctly that Mr. Giwer is now disavowing his previous
>>claim that burning coke produces HCN?
>
> Not in the least
>

Perhaps Mr. Giwer could stop palying word games with the word “probably”
and provide some evidence that burning coke rather than distilling it
will produce HCN. Perhaps, he could explain how reduced nitrogen
could result from such a combustion

>>Do I understand correctly that Mr. Giwer is now disavowing his previous
>>claim that burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN?
>
> have I retracted from my observation that you are attempting to deceive.

Here we have evidence that Mr. Giwer knows he was wrong, but does not
have the courage to admit it. Otherwise he would either:

1) Produce evidence that I have been deceptive in claiming that burning
N2 cannot produce HCN.

2) Explain how it is possible to burn atmospheric nitrogen and produce
N2.

3) Produce the EPA report that he claims contradicts me.

1) Admit he had no idea what he was talking about when on Feb 22, 1996
he wrote:

It appears you are unaware the CN is a by product of incomplete
combustion. You see, you take a carbon based fuel and air which
contains more nitrogen than oxygen and also supports combustion but
at a higher temperature and you get a fractional production of CN
as well as CO and a mess of other things. With enough oxygen and
good design you will get all CO2 as the result. And of course if
you have ever paying any attention to the causes of smog you know one
of them nitrogen compounds emitted as gases. Do you think there is
some way to prevent carbon from being included among those compounds?
Of course there is a resident chemist here to confirm or deny this so
lets wait for his commentary.

…

Yes, Virginia, there is nitrogen in the atomsphere and yes , Virginia,
it does burn. (Giwer, Re: Open Gallon of Paint – paint one door –
throw the rest away)

Giwer, Matt. UseNet alt.revisionism,
February 22, 1996. Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint – paint one door –
throw the rest away
Message-ID: [email protected] Archived with URL:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/giwer.0296

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 23:24:21 PDT 1996
Article: 44126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Degesh 0
Date: 17 Jun 1996 10:18:18 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>>[email protected] writes:
>
>># The messages subjects Degesh 1 and 2 comprise a diagram of
>># the standard 10 cubic meter Degesh delousing chamber. This is
>># the one they advertised had deloused the possession of 25
>># million people.
>
>>So? I mean, did someone claim these delousing chambers did
>>not exist?
>
> You did. Then I told you that I would get you a picture. You now have
>that and a digram. What are you trying to redact now?
>
>># Not surprisingly they also manufactured mobile delousing chambers
>># on the backs of trucks that could go where people needed them. I
>># am still looking for a picture of one of those.
>
>># I suspect of course they will come very close to the “eyewitness”
>># descriptions of the “vergasnungwagans.”
>
>>Not only eyewitnesses, but also rather detailed documents
>>written during the war.
>
>>Moreover, I hope you’re not going to claim the Nazis deloused
>>clothes with engine exhaust?
>
> I hope you are not going to claim they used oily exhaust that even Green
>called absurd.

Mr. Giwer is not being completely forthright. If I had said such a
thing was absurd, he could provide evidence.
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 17 23:24:22 PDT 1996
Article: 44133 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Marduk forging again?
Date: 17 Jun 1996 10:44:54 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

Mr. Giwer has been posting with two different headers. Perhaps, he has
just changed the way his software is set up, or perhaps Marduk is at it
again.

Comments?

alt.revisionism #94154 (2 + 676 more)
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Subject: When I said it
Date: Thu Jun 13 14:16:53 PDT 1996
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 13 4:19:44 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

alt.revisionism #94730 (2 + 676 more)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Gerstein’s wholely credible confession
Date: Sat Jun 15 18:00:54 PDT 1996
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 85
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 15 6:02:06 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 18 00:08:55 PDT 1996
Article: 44158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: 17 Jun 1996 09:56:53 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Schultz wrote:

>By the way, if Myshkin wants to use as an epithet for me the name of
>a character from “Hogan’s Heroes,” one would think that he would at
>least have the decency to spell it correctly. The difference in the
>level of literary allusion between him (of the Wile E. Coyote supergenius
>IQ) and me has been noted, of that you can be sure.

True enough, but I’d guess that Mr. Giwer has not even caught on to the
Dostoyevsky reference in your post.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 18 10:16:30 PDT 1996
Article: 44224 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!panix!news.denver.eti.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At least part of the Degesh publication
Date: 17 Jun 1996 10:06:16 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>> wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
>>>>>>>>>a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess –
>>>>>>>>>Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.
>>>>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Which true truth is Mr. Giwer peddling today?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You, too, are confusing the Degesh pub with the public health document
>>>>>>>from Prague. As we know, the SS did not buy from Prague.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it Mr. Giwer’s argument that this public health document is a
>>>>>>forgery?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no argument. I have the clearly true and correct statement that
>>>>>the Degesh publication does not mention “Erco” whatever that is supposed
>>>>>to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can not put it into the Degesh pub. You can not put it into the
>>>>>Degesh pub. Sorry.
>>>
>>>>Either the document posted which mentions ERCO is accurate or it isn’t.
>>>>The fact that not every publication mentions all three possible supports
>>>>is irrelevant. BTW – Dr. Keren published a URL to see information from
>>>>Dr. Peters of Degesch that confirms that ERCO was used as a support. Is
>>>>it the case that Mr. Giwer was ignorant of the use of ERCO or is it the
>>>>case that he is not being completely forthright?
>>>
>>> You do need to learn to read some time. I have said it was not in the
>>>Degesh publication that the holohuggers were saying supported their
>>>position but just never could fine the time to post. I started looking
>>>and found both documents almost immediately.
>
>>How many Degesh publications are there? What is Mr. Giwer’s evidence that
>>anyone was referring to what he posted?
>
> You will have to get after your fellow holohuggers to post what they
>claim to have but refused to post for an answer to that one.

So Mr. Giwer’s argument that testimony that refers to Zyklon-B as being
blue is contrary to physical fact has failed. He cannot show that ERGO
was not used ergo he cannot show that such testimonies are invalid.

>>> But specifically as to that scan of a single page, There is not even a
>>>caption to the picture of the page. There is nothing indicating the
>>>different purposes to which the different carriers were used. However
>>>we do have a specific purpose in the Degesh publication.
>>>
>>> We do know that from a Degesh publication entitled “Kyklon for Pest
>>>Control” we have a specific purpose for this carrier and there is one
>>>and only carrier mentioned. We also know from the weight of myth on
>>>this subject that the type used for pest control is the type that was
>>>supposedly used on people. Therefore this is a description of the type
>>>that was supposedly used for gassing people.
>>>
>>> QED
>
>>What was the Zyklon with ERCO support used for if not pest control?
>>I suggest that Mr. Giwer learn elementary logic.
>
> You will have to ask them what other uses there were and also what Erco
>is. And then ask them what the Erco carrier was used for.

Translation: Mr. Giwer’s argument that only the zyklon-B using wood or
diatomaceous earth was used for the purpose of pest control is without
ant foundation whatsoever.
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 18 10:16:31 PDT 1996
Article: 44240 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!zeppelin.eos.home.net!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: As blue as blue can be
Date: 17 Jun 1996 18:57:56 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
wrote:
>Keith Morrison wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>> >Before you go of spouting about chemistry, perhaps you would
>>> >like to inform the audience what “oxidation state” refers to
>>> >when talking about atoms and such?
>>>
>>> Excuse me but your favorite pharamacist was “excused” for not know what
>>> a crystal is. All you are saying is that he is as ignorant as I of
>>> chemisty. Even more so as I have consistantly pointed to the crystal
>>> nonsense.
>>>
>>> So obiously I know more than he does about chemistry as that is so
>>> fundamental.
>
>>What does the term “oxidation state” mean, Mr Giwer?
>
> It is something unnecessary when they could combust bodies with fuel.

Translation: Mr. Giwer doesn’t know even after I posted a lesson on the
topic.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 21 08:09:52 PDT 1996
Article: 45067 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infinex.com!news2.isp.net!news.erg.sri.com!ns1.aplatform.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel’s crocodile tears
Date: 20 Jun 1996 14:03:45 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
DvdThomas wrote:

>The appeals process is intended to protect citizens from the stupidities
>and inequities of laws, legislators, lower court judges and ignorant
>jurors. If you wish to side with stupidity, inequity, ignorance and
>incompetence then your statement above becomes valid. Otherwise, it is
>close to:
>
>”lying, and of _knowingly_ lying”
>
>That’s said in sarcasm. I don’t believe in calling people liars without
>incontrovertible evidence of it and that doesn’t exist here. I’ll stay
>with “unwitting sophistry” as an adequate description.

I haven’t been following the facts of the case, but if the facts are as
the two of you presented, I think that Mr. Hunt’s logic fails here.
Isn’t it the case that the appeal threw out the law itself rather than
the verdict? In other words, Mr. Zuendel was indeed proven to be a
liar, but the the higher court found that lying isn’t a crime.

If I am missing something here, please let me know.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 21 20:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 45200 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!olivea!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving’s ‘Goebbels’ book now available
Date: 20 Jun 1996 21:22:36 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

Is the IHR the only source for this book? If I want a copy but don’t
want to support the IHR, is there a way I can get one?

Regards,

Rich Green
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sat Jun 22 09:35:49 PDT 1996
Article: 45248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!olivea!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lets get this straight
Date: 21 Jun 1996 23:51:45 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> I reserve the right to respond to any post that in any manner mentions
>> me in any manner.
>>
>> I will continue to do so until this crap stops.
>>
>> That is not a problem with me in the least. This can become a spam
>> conference as I control it (as has been publically acknowledged) or it
>> will get down to cases on my terms.
>>
>> There is nothing in between.
>>
>> I hope you folks come to understand this.
>
>Has someone sent this up to the net-abuse newsgroup? Maybe mail
>a copy to Netcom?

I mailed a copy to [email protected]

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 23 08:13:06 PDT 1996
Article: 45488 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.mindspring.com!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving’s ‘Goebbels’ book now available (fwd)
Date: 23 Jun 1996 01:22:05 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, justin wrote:

>Why do you not want to support the IHR?
>
>

Because they’re Nazi-apologists with no interest in getting to the
truth. The IHR is run by Greg Raven who has posted his admiration for
Hitler. Perhaps, Dr. Keren can remind us.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 23 16:19:05 PDT 1996
Article: 45585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron exposes shameless Jewish Holocaust liars
Date: 23 Jun 1996 12:28:09 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 143
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:

>The polarization on this board here has to do with two themes: the
>_extent_ of gassing as a means of execution, and the _intentionality_ of
>the German Nazi program. My skepticism about the extent of either of
>these positions has been clearly articulated. Since I, for one, have
>neither the time nor the resources to settle either issue one way or the
>other to my own complete satisfaction I have tended to shy away from these
>issues. And my reward is to be accused of whitewashing.

On what is your skepticism based? I don’t expect you to believe
everything you hear, but reasonable people draw the line somewhere.
We believe that the earth rotates around the sun even though we know
equally well that we could pose serious-sounding challenges to the
assertion.

>While we are on the subject, however, I would like someone to explain to
>me when it was decided that the death toll at Majdanek (which supposedly
>used Zyklon B) should be lowered from 1.5 million to 50,000. I say this
>because Alex Werth (*Russia at War*, 1960), and Lucy Dawidowicz (*War
>Against the Jews*, 1974) both cite the higher number. These kinds of
>changes are among the reasons why people become skeptical in re the entire
>*Gas Chamber Controversy* in the first place.

I can’t answer the question directly, but I know that Hilberg does not
use such a large number for his victim count a Majdanek. I don’t have
my Hilberg with me, but look at appendix B in volume 3; I don’t think
that this table has changed since the 1961 version, but I could be
wrong. Awhile ago I summarized this table and Jamie tells me he has
archived it at camps/auschwitz/victims/victims.002 at Nizkor. Perhaps,
he can give a more precise URL.

>Then, of course, I would be asked to prove the counterfactual. But I
>can’t do that, since I lack the expertise to do so. But I do have two
>eyes. And I can see that people who argue the opposite position are
>harrassed and imprisoned, and threatened with deportation. And I see that
>51 years after the fact people still can’t make up their minds about what
>happened who what where. Bolts on the floor. You have got be kidding.
>All of this should have been settled in 1945. Not that it makes any
>difference, in the larger scheme of things, regarding the suffering and
>mass murder of the Jews!

Precisely! At the time it would have been very difficult to lie about
what everyone knew to have happened. They might not have had every
detail correct, but the big picture was correct. It would have been
hard to imagine that a new generation of Nazi-apologists would try to
deny the truth. Certainly, Mr. Ehrlich is aware that most of our
deniers are Nazi-apologists. Certainly, he is not so naive that he does
not see this fact.

>But it is the conventionalist side that _insists_ on making the assembly
>line mass murder process the centerpiece of the Holocaust, when in fact
>there are tons of data that, humanistically speaking, are far more
>enlightening and edifying in terms of bringing home the stark horror of
>what was endured.

>But please note that no one _here_ is *denying* that the East European
>Jewish community was destroyed, the ony caveat, which, I think was raised
>by me, is that the local nationalists and the Soviet Union probably had
>more to do with that process than we tend to recognize. And please note
>than no one is *denying* that millions of Jews lost their lives, the only
>caveat, raised by some others, but not by me, is whether the number who
>perished was to some degree _less_ than six million.

Mr. Ehrlich, almost _everyone_ in this conference agrees that the number
is _fewer_ than 6 million. The number is not the point. I would like
to see any evidence that you have that the Soviet Union is responsible
for any large percentage of deaths that were attributed to the Nazis.
No one here is denying the brutality of the Soviet regime. No one here
is denying that they lied about Katyn. No one here is denying that the
death toll at Auschwitz is closer to the conventionalist figure of one
million than the communist figure of 4 million.

>So now we are arguing about three things: (1) extent of gassing as means
>of execution, (2) degree to which the program was pre-planned or
>contradicted by other initiatives, and one more, (3) what it all means.
>
>Of course, (3) is _entirely_ in the realm of interpretation. But it is
>precisely this point that generates the most heat.

I disagree. This newsgroup focuses more and 1 and 2, which you
apparently don’t feel qualified to discuss. Most of the
“conventionalists” do not agree on “what it all means.” I’m not sure
that it has any meaning that we can understand. What’s important is
that it happened. I haven’t seen anyone on this newsgroup argue a pure
intentionalist position. Some people may believe that way and it’s
their right, but I suspect most of us fall somewhere between pure
functionalism and pure intentionalism.

Mr. Ehrlich, you seem to be an intelligent and rational writer. I find
your tendency to oversimplify people’s positions strange. I also find
your unwillingness to recognize the existence of Nazi-apologists and
antisemites in this news group to be disingenuous. I hope that you can
clarify these points.

Regards,

Rich Green

>Was the Holocaust the
>worst thing that ever happened, or was it just war as usual? Were the
>Germans uniquely evil in WW2, or were they a little less bad than the
>Soviets, and only slightly worse than the Allies? Was it part of a larger
>socioeconomic process that affected Eastern Europe, which took two world
>wars to settle? This last has been my hobby horse, which I prefer because
>it makes sense to me. But, again, it is dismissed as *whitewashing*
>generally by small minds who can’t get through the day without a dose of
>virile hatred towards Germans. And in the last analysis issues of
>interpretation are just these: value judgments, and people are free to
>make up their own minds. No amount of name calling, bellowing, and 500
>feet of scanned conventionalist prose will change that. To name only the
>milder forms of response which the conventionalists (which, I am sorry to
>say, appears to be a hotbed for crypto-fascist wannabes) will sometimes
>use.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 23 16:19:06 PDT 1996
Article: 45586 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron Exposes His Bigotry and Ignorance – Again
Date: 23 Jun 1996 12:33:42 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Mike
>Curtis) writes:
>
>>>And that is what the Nizkor bunny does: over, and over, and over.
>>
>>What is the Nizkor bunny, Alan? You going to keep playing this stupid
>>game or come clean?
>>
>>
>>
>
>And what is your stupid game, pal? Or do you just want to insult me by
>lower casing my name? Once again, ad hominem triumphs, for people who
>can’t wait to get off by attacking people. Poor baby! Haven’t had any
>fresh meat in awhile?

Curiouser and curiouser.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 24 10:50:32 PDT 1996
Article: 68859 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!torn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <[email protected]>
Control: cancel <[email protected]>
Date: 23 Jun 1996 21:03:14 -0700
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

<[email protected]> was cancelled from within trn.
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Mon Jun 24 22:47:01 PDT 1996
Article: 45774 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: 23 Jun 1996 11:51:40 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:

>You are such a birdbrain. I don’t have the time to let you make me sick.
>I have stated many times where I stand. I am not going to repeat what
>_my_ null hypothesis is to someone who is severely mentally challenged and
>whose reactive and testosterone-dripping posts constitute the best
>possible advertisement for the revisionist position.

Mr. Ehrlich, I am quite disappointed by your post. I thought you were
above such juvenile tit-for-tat arguments.

>Giwer’s posts in recent days have stuck to the details from the war crimes
>tribunals. All such posts are legitimate fodder for this NG. It is up to
>*fighters of hate* like you to step forward and endorse all of this
>balderdash, or else admit that it is false or doubtful testimony. You
>have done neither. You never get past letter *A* as in ad hominem. So
>you get it back, see?

Mr. Ehrlich, Mr. Giwer seems to leave a lot of loose ends in his posts.
It seems that every post he makes contain scientific and historical
errors. Certainly, you can’t be blind to the caliber of his responses
to being challenged on such facts. I’m certain, however, that you can
do better. Perhaps, you can make up for the intellectual paucity of Mr.
Giwer’s posts by providing evidence where he refuses.

For instance, eyewitness testimony, in many cases, refers to Zyklon-B
as being blue. Mr. Giwer claims that Zyklon-B cannot be blue. When
pressed, he changes the topic or engages in argumentum ad hominem. Mr.
Ehrlich, what is your opinion? Is ERCO one of the supports for
Zyklon-B? Is ERCO blue?

When you resolve this question perhaps we can address the exothermicity
of combusting the human body. In your opinion, Mr. Ehrlich, is
combustion of the human body an exothermic or an endothermic process?

I hope that we can finally address many more of Mr. Giwer’s assertions
with someone who is more reasonable than Mr. Giwer. I await your
response.

Regards,

Rich Green

PS I’m sure that Mr. Giwer will respond to this post, but I’ve abandoned
any hope of getting a rational response from him. I hope that Mr.
Ehrlich will do me the courtesy of replying.

>
>Meanwhile, my main sticking point with Giwer, namely, what I would
>consider gratuitous slurs against Jews, have been largely absent. So I
>will compliment him on that one. And since the conventionalists have now
>started another campaign to either ignore him, or destroy him, I am going
>to defend him. Here. Now.
>
>You are so blind that you have no conception of what a good Nazi or NKVD
>boy you would be. On second thought, you do make me sick.
>
>Meanwhile, jump to whatever silly conclusions you like, just don’t hurt
>yourself in the process. I will call things as I see them, giving credit
>where credit is due on both sides, and slinging garbage to garbage slung.
>What? Did you think it requires some special _skill_ to kick out your
>vociferous, angry, frustrated trash?
>
>Maybe some day you will find some other way to get off in life other than
>by engaging in stupid ad hominems on the Usenet. But I doubt it.
>

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 25 07:12:14 PDT 1996
Article: 45799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: massacre of 500 guards at Dachau
Date: 24 Jun 1996 09:35:55 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article ,
Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
>
>The difference is:
>
>
>Nazis killed innocent unarmed men, women and children with pride.
>
>Americans killed guilty unarmed Nazis with shame.
>
>
>The two groups of perpetrators are at distant ends of a wide moral
>spectrum.

I agree that the two crimes are quite different, but I tend to hold
Americans to a higher standard. What happened was terrible and it was
wrong, but it does not equal the crimes of the SS.

These SS men should have been shot after a trial not before one in my
opinion.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 25 12:50:06 PDT 1996
Article: 45892 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!van.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue
Date: 24 Jun 1996 14:26:31 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ruth Sommers wrote:

>Granting that the discussion about diesel engines is something of a blind
>alley, to me at least, it is my understanding that HCN in carrier
>substances is still made, and even if it isn’t it was made for decades in
>Germany. BTW, the evaporation rate is supposed to be 37% of the existing
>volume every half hour at 20 degrees Centigrade, according to Rudolf.
>Crudely, that means 1/3, then 1/3 of 2/3, then 1/3 of 4/9, etc. for
>several hours.

I would think that Peters would be a more reliable source or does Ms.
Sommers disagree?

>Therefore it shouldn’t be too difficult to establish the _entire_ range of
>carrier substances, their diameter, their composition (diatomite, wood,
>silica), whether or not the carrier was bleached and/or colored (with
>cobalt blue, for example). We could settle whether there was a
>correlation between lettering (Zyklon A, B, C, D, E) and carrier, and
>beyond that to the cost.

>I gather it is fairly well established that *Zyklon B* was _the_ form of
>HCN used by the SS. And it was widely used. Therefore we should have no
>problem, that is, if someone knew what they were doing.

Perhaps Ms. Sommers missed Mr. Giwer’s post from CODOH’s own web-site
that state.

Issued by the Health Institution of the Protectorate of Bohemia and
Moravia in Prague.

Directives for the Use of Prussic Acid (Zyklon) for the
Destruction of Vermin (Disinfestation)

Translation of Document No. NI-9912 Office of Chief Counsel of War
Crimes

[…]

II. METHOD OF USING PRUSSIC ACID

ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess – Dia
gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.

[…]

Would Ms. Sommers agree that it is not surprising that testimony would
refer to Zyklon as blue?

Regards,

Rich Green
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Tue Jun 25 18:55:49 PDT 1996
Article: 45954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!uunet.ca!news.uunet.ca!hookup!news.mcgill.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.digital.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.politics
Subject: Re: – c_ferree.jpg.Enc01 (0/1) Legacy of the Living
Date: 23 Jun 1996 11:23:11 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:34064 alt.politics.nationalism.white:23752 alt.discrimination:49098 alt.revisionism:45954 alt.skinheads:29532 can.politics:54188

In article ,
Richard Greenley wrote:

Hey! Give me my name back. 🙂

Regards,

Rich Green (not ley).

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Wed Jun 26 07:18:17 PDT 1996
Article: 46028 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue
Date: 25 Jun 1996 21:34:53 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
DvdThomas wrote:
>II. METHOD OF USING PRUSSIC ACID
>
>ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
>a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess –
>Dia
>gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.
>
>[…]
>
>
>
>Would Ms. Sommers agree that it is not surprising that testimony would
>refer to Zyklon as blue?
>
>Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>
>*********
>
>It would be interesting to know the source of the “blue cubes” (Erco?).
>Degesch literature describes only pellets and discs, no cubes, no blue.

I just posted the source:
>>The DEGESCH document titled “Directives for the Use of Prussic Acid
>>(Zyklon) for the Destruction of Vermin (Disinfestation)” [NI-9912] states:
>>
>>”ZYKLON is the absorption of a mixture of prussic acid and an irritant by
>>a carrier. Wood fibre discs, a reddish brown granular mass (diagriess –
>>Dia gravel) or small blue cubes (Erco) are used as carriers.”
>>(_Technique_, p.18; and
>>http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith/incon/zyklon.html)

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Wed Jun 26 07:18:18 PDT 1996
Article: 46029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue
Date: 25 Jun 1996 21:36:24 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Richard J. Green) writes:
>
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Ruth Sommers wrote:
>>
>>>Granting that the discussion about diesel engines is something of a
>blind
>>>alley, to me at least, it is my understanding that HCN in carrier
>>>substances is still made, and even if it isn’t it was made for decades
>in
>>>Germany. BTW, the evaporation rate is supposed to be 37% of the
>existing
>>>volume every half hour at 20 degrees Centigrade, according to Rudolf.
>>>Crudely, that means 1/3, then 1/3 of 2/3, then 1/3 of 4/9, etc. for
>>>several hours.
>
>This is a blatant forgery. Period. I have never posted under the name
>Ruth Sommers.

If true, I apologize for the insinuation.

Regards,

Rich Green
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Wed Jun 26 07:18:19 PDT 1996
Article: 46044 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.digital.com!decwrl!news.PBI.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Color of Zyklon: Call Me Zyklon Blue
Date: 25 Jun 1996 22:50:24 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:
>In article , [email protected]

>Mark, this was a good detailed post. On this last point, however, I think
>there is a problem. I understand that the letter is part of a series:
>ABCDE which relates to different grades of the product. _Folk etymology_
>gave us the equivalence of B and *Blausaure* which as you correctly note
>means (blue+sour) or (blue+acid), or more precisely just *prussic acid*
>i.e., cyanide. According to Berg, in the Zyklon article on the CODOH site,
>the terms became interchangeable.

Hilberg seems to concur:

TESTA sold Zyklon in different concentrations. Invoices
presented to municipal or industrial clients for fumigations
of buildings were printed with headings C, D, E, and F, each
denoting a category of potency and price. As explained in a
letter to the Ostland, strength E was required for the
eradication of specially resistant vermin, such as cockroaches,
or for gassings in wooden barracks. The “normal” preparation
D was used to exterminate lice, mice, or rats in large,
well-built structures containing furniture. Human organisms
in gas chambers were killed using Zyklon B.

[Hilberg, (1985), p.888]

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Wed Jun 26 16:43:43 PDT 1996
Article: 46156 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!decwrl!news.PBI.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OS/2 is an Operating System?
Date: 24 Jun 1996 23:56:51 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Hilary Ostrov wrote:
>In
>,
>Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
>
>
>
>>On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Hilary Ostrov wrote:
>
>>> In
>>> ,
>>> Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >On 23 Jun 1996, Richard J. Green wrote:
>>>
>>> >> In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>> >> >Richard J. Green wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> >> >> Ken McVay OBC wrote:
>>> >> >> >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>And it’s not as if I really dislike Macintrashes…er…
>>> >> >> >>Macintoshes. Apple makes a good little computer that makes
>>> >> >> >>a perfectly acceptable paperweight or doorstop.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >MacIntoshes are excellent, when, of course, they are running
>>> >> >> >AIX, or whatever it is the mouse set calls their flavour of
>>> >> >> >the One True Operating System, UNIX.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Agreed! Just as one cannot argue against PC’s running linux. Mice are
>>> >> >> certainly acceptable on an X-windows server as well. (I make an
>>> >> >> exception for all of this w.r.t. Wavemetrics’s program Igor, which is
>>> >> >> the one truly good data analysis program).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> However, it is obvious that _Morriglu_the_crook_ has been smoking
>>> >> >> marijuana in Microsoft basement.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Well, Geenidian_The_Terrorist, what do you have to say about the
>>> >> >1947 Paris report that clearly indicated the killing of thousands
>>> >> >of innocent IBM compatibles by the evil hordes of Applian terrorist
>>> >> >killers who killed thousands of IBM turkeys, you UNIX-loving terrorist?
>>> >>
>>> >> Why must you resort to such name-calling. I’m simply asking some
>>> >> questions. Why is it that you DOS-huggers want to censor anyone who
>>> >> asks questions. I don’t deny that some terrible things were done in
>>> >> 1947, but they were done by all sides. Also, all the evidence that
>>> >> turkeys were involved comes from the Windows crowd. Surely, we should
>>> >> be just as suspicious of them as we are of the MacIntosh folks.
>>>
>>>
>>> >More lies from the Windowhuggers and their bleeding-heart liberal UNIX
>>> >friends! Everyone knows that the deaths of the IBM compatibles was caused
>>> >not by the Applyans- that is the myth perpetrated as part of the
>>> >international Ziwindowsist plot. The deaths were due to severe RAM
>>> >shortages and bug-epidemics caused not by the Applyans (who had
>>> >rightfully contained the pernicious Ziwindowsists within LAN-camps to
>>> >isolate their evil spawn) but rather caused by the immoral
>>> >de3struction and deprevations perpetrated under the Windows ’95
>>> >campaign aimed against the Applyans.
>>>
>>> >MICE POWER!!!!!
>>>
>>> More malicious canards right out of the Protocols of the Youngers of
>>> Gates. Everyone knows that Applyans are MacAfflicted to the core.
>>> They are mouse-dependent icon-worshippingTrashCanHugging Philistines.
>>> If they had _any_ environmental consciousness whatsoever, at the very
>>> least they would discard their beloved TrashCans and acknowledge the
>>> superior efficacy of RecyleBins.
>>>
>>> WOG
>>> “This _is_ the 90’s! Wake-up! Open your Windows NOW – feel that
>>> exhilarating breath of fresh air and be empowered forever!”
>>>
>>>
>
>>I have seen the err of my ways! They hatred that filled my heart is no
>>more! For today I learned that a loved-one of mine, my own
>>flesh-and-blood, is Windowsish (NT with UNIX blood!!!) I have learned
>>that Applyans and the Windowsish people must learn to live together, for,
>>after all, are we not really all alike?- Trashcan/RecycleBin;
>>ZoomBox?Maximize-Minimize; One-button mouse/Two-button mouse. Does it
>>matter who came first or who has the fleeting technological egde?
>
>>CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???
>
>>To love another is to illuminate one’s own dark heart with the reflected
>>light. I shall hate no more.
>
>See, I was right! Open thy Windows and the light shall empower thee
>within the New World Perspective of friendship and trust. You _can_
>free yourself from the shackles of the orthodox techno-lingual story
>and anti-semantic slurs.
>
>>Of course, those text-line people are still inferior…
>
>Indeed and I doubt that there is any hope for them. They do tend to
>type in trollic tongues. Perhaps the best strategy is to ignore them.
>All those in favour, just e-mail me and I’ll co-ordinate the
>conspiracy of silence.

BACKGROUND: WINDOWs want to Censor anti-WINDOWS History
The Univ. of Texas prohibits computer Debates, labelling all
anti-WINDOWS History as “hate-History” & Censors History!
(Recently the U.S. Senate repudiated the new TCP/IP Standards (99 to
1) because the standards – were anti-WINDOWS!)
Then In a typical graphical interface circular logic loop:
“because Texas Instruments were anti-POWERPC to DOS – the UofT recently
petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court (Hopwood v UofT) to be permitted to continue
to suspend the Bill of Rights – because the UofT historically suspended the
Bill of Rights….

MACzunix
http://members.aol.com/UnixNOT – history WINDOWS NT wants to censor
http://members.aol.com/SGIWatch – the Weird World of X-Windows Supremacists
http://home.aol.com/WINDOWSnot – Why Windows loves WOG – Immigration History
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Thu Jun 27 07:32:48 PDT 1996
Article: 46229 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OS/2 is an Operating System?
Date: 23 Jun 1996 20:59:41 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]0.Stanford.EDU> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>Richard J. Green wrote:
>
>> >> However, it is obvious that _Morriglu_the_crook_ has been smoking
>> >> marijuana in Microsoft basement.
>> >
>> >Well, Geenidian_The_Terrorist, what do you have to say about the
>> >1947 Paris report that clearly indicated the killing of thousands
>> >of innocent IBM compatibles by the evil hordes of Applian terrorist
>> >killers who killed thousands of IBM turkeys, you UNIX-loving terrorist?
>>
>> Why must you resort to such name-calling. I’m simply asking some
>> questions. Why is it that you DOS-huggers want to censor anyone who
>> asks questions. I don’t deny that some terrible things were done in
>> 1947, but they were done by all sides. Also, all the evidence that
>> turkeys were involved comes from the Windows crowd. Surely, we should
>> be just as suspicious of them as we are of the MacIntosh folks.
>
>TIME! TIME OUT!
>
>What spammer are we parodying here, anyway? I thought we were doing
>Argic, but if you insist on jumping around to all of them, be warned
>because I shall unleash my JUMBO COSMOSPHERES and toast your space
>potato.
>
>Free and UNaltered DISSEMINATION of the IMPORTANT information is
>ENCOURAGED.

Clearly you have been reading the >>Microsoft Manual<< in which it
describes how DOS HUGGERS should engage in SEXUAL RELATIONS with
>>pentium processors<< less than 2 years old.

The guide to powerpc chips used in some IBM computers claims that they
are as good as OUR TRADITIONAL RISC CHIPS.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Thu Jun 27 07:32:49 PDT 1996
Article: 46231 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They don’t call Auschwitz the extermination camp for nothing!’
Date: 23 Jun 1996 21:04:07 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

Vidal-Naquet comments on Kremer’s testimony [1]:

…
George Wellers has observed that Faurisson made made use
of Kremer’s confession in 1947 to interpret the notations
in his diary for October 18, 1942 as though they referred to
only three evacuations, but that he pretended to be unaware
that on the same day in 1947 Kremer spoke of the gas chambers
at Auschwitz (_Le Monde_, February 21, 1979; _Verite, pp. 332-
334). To which Faurisson retorted that he retained from
Kremer’s confession only what was credible, and not what was
not. Since Kremer had once said that gas chambers were
reopened “a moment” after the death of the victims, his
statement constitutes, he tells us gravely, “a flagrant
physical impossibility” (Verite, p.112).

Let us leave aside what, in this interpretation, is to be
attributed to pedantry or subjectivity (what is a _moment_?).
It comes up against a series of absolutely decisive objections:

1. There is not a single passage in the _Diary_ in which
Kremer speaks of typhus in connection with “special actions.”

2. One is hard put to understand why typhus outbreaks would
necessarily coincide with arrivals form outside the camp.
(Was there at the time a typhus epidemic in Holland?)

3. It is hard to understand why an execution, a commonplace
occurrence for Kremer, and also everything concerning typhus,
should suddenly take on a tragic aspect when connected with a
special action.

4. The fact that Auschwitz was the _Lager der Vernichtung_
has no relationship to typhus epidemics. Indeed, Faurisson,
who is so concerned with precision when it comes to translation,
did not perceive that Kremer in speaking of Typhus did not use
the verb _vernichten_. He wrote on October 3: “In
Auschwitz whole streets have been stricken down by typhus (
In Auschwitz liegen ganze Strassenzu”ge an Typhus darnieder).”
The difference in verbs (darniederliegen instead of vernichten)
is significant, and Faurisson allowed himself to be fooled by
the translation of the Polish publisher. Finally, a detail
which I mention to show how Faurisson reads texts: it is false
that Kremer had typhus and that what he called the Auschwitz
illness is typhus. The indications in the diary for
September 3, 4, and 14, show clearly that the Auschwitz
illness is diarrhea with a moderate fever (37.8 degrees C on
September 14). Kremer was, in fact, vaccinated against
(exanthematic) typhus and typhoid fever. Faurisson’s
interpretation is thus not admissable, and the explanation-
so dear to those revisionists, like Butz, prepared to admit
that there was a lot of dying at Auschwitz-of the death rates
at Aushwitz by typhus stands condemned along with it.
…

[1] Pierre Vidal-Naquet, _Assassins of Memory_, translated by
Jeffrey Mehlman, Columbia University Press: New York (1992).
pp. 48-50

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Thu Jun 27 07:32:50 PDT 1996
Article: 46233 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Deniers’ True Colours (was Re: Lets get this straight)
Date: 23 Jun 1996 21:08:02 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
DvdThomas wrote:
>John Morris wrote:
>
>>What you seem to
>>be asking for is a newsgroup where you can discuss Revisionism without
>>being challenged.
>
>That is utter nonsense. What he and others are demanding, not asking for,
>is a forum where discussions can take place free from personal attacks.

Not bloody likely with Mr. Giwer around or is Mr. Hunt blind to Mr.
Giwer’s pattern of insulting anyone who demonstrates the absurdity of
his reasoning?

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Thu Jun 27 20:58:19 PDT 1996
Article: 46403 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Summon the Daemons by Name!
Date: 23 Jun 1996 12:55:34 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ken McVay OBC wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote, to the Man
>Who Would Be Gannon:
>
>> If and when I decide to deal with you, you will be dealt with, and on
>>my own terms. Because just as you can get this newsgroup to do whatever
>>you want, I can summon spirits from the vasty deep, and invoke daemons by
>>name. (And I do not even need a pentagram.) I’m sure you are suitably
>>impressed.
>
>Hail Lord UNIX, and the Greater Triumvirate Daemons, STMP the Straight,
>MAILER the Demanding, and INN the Flail; Horrible Daemons of Digital Truths,
>Destroyers of WOG and Kernels of Doom. Blessed be Their Names.

Don’t forget procmail! Even if it’s not running as a daemon, but just
piped to by sendmail.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 28 10:17:24 PDT 1996
Article: 11237 of soc.history.what-if
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!newshost.convex.com!bcm.tmc.edu!pendragon!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Let Matt Giwer Post!
Followup-To: alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Date: 26 Jun 1996 23:53:52 -0700
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article ,
Charles J. D. Mountel wrote:
>I would have to agree. From what I have been reading as of late, many
>people do not agree with Mr. Giwer’s ideas (myself included). The way to
>deal with this is not to launch insults and take up newsgroup space.
>Simply argue the man down with facts, this should be simple enough.
>

Don’t be fooled into thinking that Mr. Giwer is capable of rational
argument. When confronted with the truth, he obfuscate, lie, distract,
pretend not to see your arguments, or engage in ad hominem attacks.

The best bet – kill file him: he is an ill man and responding to him
will only aggravate his disease. His trolling is just the attention
getting device of a lonely man.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 28 10:39:55 PDT 1996
Article: 46501 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: 26 Jun 1996 14:42:24 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 222
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Michael P. Stein wrote:

> You have libeled me by posting to make people think I am guilty of
>doing dishonest things I have not done, such as editing out your
>computations of calorie requirements. So where did I call you antisemitic
>and a Nazi? Please produce those posts. Or do you claim that if one
>person libels you, you have the right to libel anyone you like?

Not even I have called the person in question either of those things.
I have called him a Nazi-apologist (a claim for which there is ample
evidence). I have also posted evidence that one might interpret to say
that he is an antisemite, but I have left that up to the reader to
decide. To refresh some memories:

Is Matt Giwer an antisemite? You be the judge:

>From [email protected] Sat Mar 23 14:39:28 PST 1996
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Is Giwer a Troll? Message-ID:
<[email protected]>

You pathetic, primative bastards are all alike.

Just as we do not disturb the strange tribes of the Amazon we
should not disturb the strange tribes of Juda or David.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
said:

I don’t know how to indentify jews. Why don’t you tell me?

Right, come get me, it will make my religous fervor come true.

I know it is going to happen so just say anything and I will
know I am being persecuted. I can be a martyr! Please let me take a
number for a gas chamber.

You assholes sound just like the nuns with the glossy eyes
talking about the Christian martyrs.

I don’t really mean to interrupt your sexual arousal but please
stop inflicting this upon the rest of the world.

Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Michael is a big, fat idiot like Rush Limbaugh
Followup-To: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Date: 30 Apr 1996 00:32:30 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: is.nyu.edu

Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

: You lovers of a hyphenated god need to grow up.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Bodies Were Dragged Out Of the Gas Chambers’
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 07:02:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:

>Does Mr. Giwer disagree with OSHA on cyanosis being a symptom of CO
>poisoning?

>> But as a bottom line we really should not make too much of the
>>color. It was simply striking by its rarity and being in the
>>wrong place.

>Translation: Mr. Giwer recognizes he was wrong, but as usual will not
>admit it.

A better translation is

You are of course a willfully deceitful, character assassinating,
atheist Jew.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: j*ws hid scrolls for 40 years
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 02:41:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

And further proof that our California Chemist has to be an
atheist. Or perhaps he has split a rabbinic hair and determined
that it refers only to citizens of Israel.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Extermination System
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 04:23:03 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Cosmic Slop
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 07:45:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

>From the first episode:

A black barber speaks to a black customer.

Did I ever tell you about the American dream? Every nigger
swimming back to Africa … with a Jew under each arm.

=====

But of course merely posting this will be called antisemitic by
the idiots.

Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!viper.inow.com!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: unethical liars for the Talmud
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 05:50:12 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> [email protected] (Nele Abels) wrote:

>>
>> >Who again said, he was no anti-semite?
>>
>> Who was it who first said I was an why?

> 1. A person of obvious perception and honesty.

> 2. Because you are.

The evidence I am about to give shall be the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth so help me hyphenated god.

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I am asking for a number, stupid
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 04:30:35 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-08.ix.netcom.com

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> This is why your arguments lack coherence. You have not the
>slightest idea of how to analyse data. The initial question is not
>”gassing” or “not gassing.” The initial question is what happened to
>the Jewish communities in Europe in the period 1939-1945. The simple
>answer is that, whatever, the “estimations” of the numbers involved is
>that the people and the cultures vanished.

…

> You are not only wrong in your characterization of the evidence but
>of the position of every historian who has studied the subject. What I care
>about is the murder of the Jews of Europe and erasure of Yiddish culture.

There is no particular merit to Yiddish culture. Why would you
care?

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 28 16:13:16 PDT 1996
Article: 46550 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!news.PBI.net!news4.agis.net!agis!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: 24 Jun 1996 00:38:26 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

Ehrlich606 wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>writes:
>
>>
>>>Mr. Ehrlich, I am quite disappointed by your post. I thought you were
>>>above such juvenile tit-for-tat arguments.
>>
>>
>
>Sniff, sniff. And I thought you were above such juvenilia as refusing to
>read Giwer’s posts, and then posting it no less. That reminds me of
>people who call up radio talk shows and announce that they aren’t going to
>listen anymore. Huh?

I have Mr. Giwer kill-filed because he has demonstrated a lack of integrity.
I am not interested in his position, but I am interested in Mr.
Ehrlich’s. Mr. Ehrlich seems to be claiming that there is some
substance to Mr. Giwer’s claims. If that is his claim, I would like to
see him discuss the issues substantively. Mr. Giwer has proven himself
unable to do so, but I am sure that Mr. Ehrlich is capable of a higher
level of discussion.
>
>The fact is I foolishly believed the tone could be changed here. I was
>wrong. If I do not respond in kind to personal attacks, I acquire the
>negative energy of the attacker. Not good. And I will respond to _your_
>post when I have it posted. To the extent that I am able, I should add,
>because unlike others I make no claim to technological expertise. Nor do
>I make claims to final answers.

If Mr. Ehrlich claims that there are technological or scientific problems with
major parts of Holocaust history I sincerely hope he will discuss the
issues rather than personalities.

Regards,

Rich Green
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 28 16:13:17 PDT 1996
Article: 46571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Design of a six-sided Hall of Remembrance at the USHMM
Date: 23 Jun 1996 12:01:27 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Richard J. Green wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Mike Curtis wrote:
>
>>The Pentagon has seven sides, what do you make of that?
>
>That it should be called the Hexagon.

Make that Heptagon.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Fri Jun 28 18:12:03 PDT 1996
Article: 46584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OS/2 is an Operating System?
Date: 23 Jun 1996 11:58:31 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>Richard J. Green wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Ken McVay OBC wrote:
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>> >
>> >>And it’s not as if I really dislike Macintrashes…er…
>> >>Macintoshes. Apple makes a good little computer that makes
>> >>a perfectly acceptable paperweight or doorstop.
>> >
>> >MacIntoshes are excellent, when, of course, they are running
>> >AIX, or whatever it is the mouse set calls their flavour of
>> >the One True Operating System, UNIX.
>>
>> Agreed! Just as one cannot argue against PC’s running linux. Mice are
>> certainly acceptable on an X-windows server as well. (I make an
>> exception for all of this w.r.t. Wavemetrics’s program Igor, which is
>> the one truly good data analysis program).
>>
>> However, it is obvious that _Morriglu_the_crook_ has been smoking
>> marijuana in Microsoft basement.
>
>Well, Geenidian_The_Terrorist, what do you have to say about the
>1947 Paris report that clearly indicated the killing of thousands
>of innocent IBM compatibles by the evil hordes of Applian terrorist
>killers who killed thousands of IBM turkeys, you UNIX-loving terrorist?

Why must you resort to such name-calling. I’m simply asking some
questions. Why is it that you DOS-huggers want to censor anyone who
asks questions. I don’t deny that some terrible things were done in
1947, but they were done by all sides. Also, all the evidence that
turkeys were involved comes from the Windows crowd. Surely, we should
be just as suspicious of them as we are of the MacIntosh folks.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sat Jun 29 13:20:57 PDT 1996
Article: 46727 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where smoke and flame stories come from
Date: 24 Jun 1996 09:30:45 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article ,
Daniel Keren wrote:
>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:
>
># There were also huge numbers of corpses that had to be burned,
># and they were burned in large pyres in the street. It took
># several weeks to burn them all. Photographs are around.
>
>I understand that these photographs show that the corpses were
>burned in rather the same manner corpses of victims in some
>death camps were burned, is that correct?
>
>But “revisionists” (notably Al Baron) repeatedly claim that
>it is impossible to burn corpses that way.

Also, the revisionists would claim that the photos were not photos of
what you think they were. They were actually people who dies from
disease. Besides who took these photos? They could be forgeries.
Also, where are the records of shipping enough wood into the streets to
burn all of these bodies?
—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sat Jun 29 13:20:58 PDT 1996
Article: 46764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: 24 Jun 1996 09:21:38 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article ,
Daniel Keren wrote:
>[email protected] (Greg Raven) writes:
>
>Greg Raven, who admires Hitler and writes that he was a “great
>man”, and “the best thing that could have happened to Germany”,
>says:
>
># Or did someone post proof for the existence of a Nazi gas
># chamber when I wasn’t looking?
>
>There’s a new game now. You have to prove that Dresden was
>bombed, or that WW2 happened. And we are allowed to use
>”revisionist” type arguments used to question the gas chambers,
>to question your proofs.
>
>Go ahead.

But to answer Mr. Raven’s question: Krema I at Auschwitz, although
reconstructed, was a gas chamber. Kremas II-V at Birkenau were gas
chambers.

When Mr. Raven can tell us what he would consider evidence to support
these claims by proving that WWII happened, he will find plenty of
support for our claims.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sat Jun 29 13:20:59 PDT 1996
Article: 46768 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OS/2 is an Operating System?
Date: 24 Jun 1996 09:26:46 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article ,
Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
>
>
>On 23 Jun 1996, Richard J. Green wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>> >Richard J. Green wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In article <[email protected]>,
>> >> Ken McVay OBC wrote:
>> >> >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>And it’s not as if I really dislike Macintrashes…er…
>> >> >>Macintoshes. Apple makes a good little computer that makes
>> >> >>a perfectly acceptable paperweight or doorstop.
>> >> >
>> >> >MacIntoshes are excellent, when, of course, they are running
>> >> >AIX, or whatever it is the mouse set calls their flavour of
>> >> >the One True Operating System, UNIX.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed! Just as one cannot argue against PC’s running linux. Mice are
>> >> certainly acceptable on an X-windows server as well. (I make an
>> >> exception for all of this w.r.t. Wavemetrics’s program Igor, which is
>> >> the one truly good data analysis program).
>> >>
>> >> However, it is obvious that _Morriglu_the_crook_ has been smoking
>> >> marijuana in Microsoft basement.
>> >
>> >Well, Geenidian_The_Terrorist, what do you have to say about the
>> >1947 Paris report that clearly indicated the killing of thousands
>> >of innocent IBM compatibles by the evil hordes of Applian terrorist
>> >killers who killed thousands of IBM turkeys, you UNIX-loving terrorist?
>>
>> Why must you resort to such name-calling. I’m simply asking some
>> questions. Why is it that you DOS-huggers want to censor anyone who
>> asks questions. I don’t deny that some terrible things were done in
>> 1947, but they were done by all sides. Also, all the evidence that
>> turkeys were involved comes from the Windows crowd. Surely, we should
>> be just as suspicious of them as we are of the MacIntosh folks.
>
>
>More lies from the Windowhuggers and their bleeding-heart liberal UNIX
>friends! Everyone knows that the deaths of the IBM compatibles was caused
>not by the Applyans- that is the myth perpetrated as part of the
>international Ziwindowsist plot. The deaths were due to severe RAM
>shortages and bug-epidemics caused not by the Applyans (who had
>rightfully contained the pernicious Ziwindowsists within LAN-camps to
>isolate their evil spawn) but rather caused by the immoral
>de3struction and deprevations perpetrated under the Windows ’95
>campaign aimed against the Applyans.
>
>MICE POWER!!!!!

In August, I’ll be publishing some extraordinary data that will make you
eat those words. I can’t talk about it now due to a lawsuit, but I have
some new information that you will find quite interesting.

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 30 09:33:44 PDT 1996
Article: 46842 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!van.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: 24 Jun 1996 14:34:58 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:

>What I see from Matt Giwer’s posts are pretty reasonable.

I find it surprising that Mr. Ehrlich would say such a thing after his
spat with Mr. Giwer awhile ago.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 30 09:33:45 PDT 1996
Article: 46876 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!decwrl!news.PBI.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Rekindling”
Date: 29 Jun 1996 13:10:16 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Curtis wrote:

>>However, my name _has_ been forged on this board, indeed, consult the
>>board and you can read about it. So I have to protect my good cyber name.

Mr. Ehrlich is referring to my insinuation that he and Ruth Sommer were
the same person, something that I believed at the time.

Forgery would imply an attempt to fool which was not my intent. Anyone
who read the headers should have been able to follow the implications.
However, let’s not get bogged down in semantics. I apologized and Mr.
Ehrlich accepted.

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

From [email protected] Sun Jun 30 09:33:46 PDT 1996
Article: 46998 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group… (was Re: Baron exp…
Date: 29 Jun 1996 16:11:39 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ehrlich606 wrote:

>But, in all fairness, this kind of stuff happens, and all we can do is try
>to get past it. Matt has had a lot of personal things said about him over
>time: if he gives it back, I am not going to say he hasn’t earned the
>right. But I do believe that he has indicated that he won’t get personal
>if people don’t get personal with him. So — let’s stop the Hatfield and
>McCoy stuff? I am ready.

But Mr. Ehrlich, surely you didn’t miss his personal attacks on me for
demonstrating that he didn’t understand the science he claimed to
understand.

Anything that Mr. Giwer has gotten, he has earned. I am, however,
sincerely concerned that he may be mentally ill and that all this
business is not helping him seek the help he needs.

Regards,

Rich Green

Regards,

Rich Green

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

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