Shofar archives:
In article <475192702wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>,
Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Pressac, a holocaust liar, DELIBERATELY fabricates the details of the
> visit of SS officer Pohl to Auschwitz:
>
> Start Quote:-
>
> [The Chief of the SS-WVHA, General of the SS Army Corps Pohl, presented
> himself unexpectedly in morning of the 23rd of September at Auschwitz to
> learn what was going on, and where the assigned tons of Zyclon B were
> going. Pohl went first to the Bauleitung, and had the general set-up of
> the camp explained to him, and the buildings that had been erected,
> those under construction (including the four crematories of Birkenau)
> and those planned described to him. His question on Zyclon B was answered
> that with this product the jews and the lice were destroyed at the same
> time.]
>
>
> Pressac’s source for the above is the diary of Johann Kremer published
> in Auschwitz vu par le SS (Edition du Musee d’Etat a Oswiecim) [AUSCHWITZ
> viewed by the SS (Edition of the State Museum at Oswiecim 1974)], pages
> 233 and 234 (notes 182 and 183 on p. 105).
>
> In reality, these two pages from the end of page 233 to the end of page
> 234, read as follows:
>
>
> [In the morning, Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl arrived with his entourage, at
> the residence of the Waffen SS. In front of the door a sentinel. For the
> first time I am presented arms. The evening at 20 hours; dinner at the SS
> Officers Club in the company of Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl: a real feast. We
> were served fried pike all we wanted, real coffee, an excellent beer and
> some sandwiches.]
>
> That is all.
Actually, it reads:
“September 23, 1942. This night was present at the 6th and 7th special
actions. _Obergruppenfu”hrer_ Pohl with suite arrived at the _Waffen SS_
club-house in the morning. The sentinel presented arms in front of me for
the first time. At 8 o’clock in the evening supper in the Home with
_Obergruppenfu”hrer_ Pohl, a truly festive meal. We had baked pike, as
much of it as we wanted, real coffee, excellent beer and sandwiches.” (_KL
Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220.)
> the rest is the product of Pressacs imagination.
Perhaps. Let us examine what else Pressac has to say in this regard:
“In order to combat the typhus epidemic that was raging through the camp n
August 1942, it was necessary to eliminate the vector of the disease,
lice. The most effective delousing agent was Zyklon-B, and without this
product it would be impossible to eradicate the disease. On the eve of the
<> order [July 23, 1942 – MV], authorization was received by
radio to send a 5-tonne truck [officially classified 4.5 tonnes and
capable of carrying a payload of 4950 kg on the road and 4100 kg off-road,
and with a capacity of approximately 20 m3] to Dessau, to the Zyklon-B
plant in order to collect <>. On 29th July authorization was received
for another truck to go to Dessau to load <>.
These two trucks would have brought back a maximum of
4,000 to 5,000 on kilogramme cans of Zyklon-B, if this was the size
chosen. ON 26th August, Zyklon-B was running out or lacking, and a Renault
truck (probably 3.5-tonne AHN) was sent to Dessau, this time for
<>. On 2nd October, while the epidemic was
still present, having reached a peak in September, the camp required
<>. Finally, on 7th January
1943, to keep control of the now endemic typhus, another truck was sent to
Dessau for <>. These five movement authorizations
are the only ones in existence that mention this type of transport. They
reflect the two different utilizations of Zyklon-B. But in what
proportion?
“As we know the quantity of Zyklon-B delivered, the dose necessary to kill
one thousand people (according to Camp Commandant Hoess) and the number of
people gassed during this period (obtained from the <>) it is
easy to determine the percentage used for each purpose over the period
22nd July to 26th August: 2 to 3% for homicidal gassing and 97% for
disinfestation purposes. This extremely surprising distribution totally
invalidates the interpretations and presentation of these
<> by the traditional historians, who claim that the word
<> was used to camouflage>> homicidal gassings and that a
gigantic massacre was going on, an argument supported by the <>
image of big trucks scurrying back and forth between Auschwitz and Dessau,
bringing back 5 tonnes of Zyklon-B on each trip (a quantity of 5,000 kg is
enough to kill 1,250,000 people, more than the total number of Jews sent
to Auschwitz!).
“The truth is that the SS used the extermination of the Jews, about which
their superiors had a general knowledge, without being informed of the
practical details, to hide the terrible hygienic conditions in the camp,
and to cover up their enormous consumption of gas for disinfestation
purposes. If the knowledge of the disastrous state of affairs had reached
Berlin, this would have had unfortunate consequences for Hoess, who had
recently been congratulated by Himmler and promoted in rank, and for his
entourage. What did the Auschwitz SS care, in the month of August 1942,
about twenty or thirty thousand Jews killed in the seclusion of of the
Birkenwald forest at the cost of a hundred kilos of Zyklon-B, when their
own lives were at risk and the very existence of the camp threatened? It
was necessary at all costs to stop the epidemic, which led to the radical
and extremely effective solution of gassing all the sick or convalescing
prisoners so as to get rid of both the lice AND THEIR CARRIERS [<>,
Kalendarium… p.85]. So the SS made the Jews take the
blame (the usual practice) for the huge Zyklon-B requirements, in order
not to be accused of incompetence in the running of the camp and lack of
control over the conditions obtaining there. However, this strategy was to
have very long term effects because of the duration of the epidemic and
the discovery of the sad truth by the higher authorities in September.
That the SS should have worded two transport authorizations in such a way
that after the war they should become crushing proof linking the Jews,
their resettlement and special treatment with hydrocyanic gas, together
meaning the death for those unable to work, becomes something of a
statistical miracle when we consider the proportions in which the gas was
used: 2 to 3% homicidal as against 97 or 98% disinfestation. The terms
used in these authorizations, generally considered today to be
incriminating slips, were deliberately used by the SS in what was a
desperate period for them, when they were submerged by an epidemic and
were trying to escape responsibility for this scourge for which they were
in fact at least half responsible. (_Technique_, p.188)
Oddly enough, there is no mention, in this passage, of
_Obergruppenfu”hrer_ Pohl’s September 23, 1942, visit to Auschwitz to “to
learn what was going on, and where the assigned tons of Zyklon B were
going” – and no reference to Kramer’s diary. The only implicit reference
would be: “However, this strategy was to have very long term effects
because of the duration of the epidemic and the discovery of the sad truth
by the higher authorities in September.”
But which higher authorities? Only 18 pages later in the text, outside the
context of the discussion above, do we come across any such specific
mention:
“SS Lieutenant-General Pohl, head of the SS-WVHA, inspected the Auschwitz
camp on 23rd September and was able to see that an epidemic was raging
there.” (Ibid. p.206)
And…
“Probably at Pohl’s request, Dr. Ernst Robert Grawitz, Head of the German
Red Cross, made a thorough inspection of the camp on 25th September. He
saw the sick quarters overflowing, corpse storage, the temporary water
treatment installations, the extermination of the Jews and the
incineration of the corpses in open-air ditches.” (Ibid.)
Pohl’s visit, mentioned in Kramer’s diary above, simply notes that the
_Obergruppenfu”hrer_ arrived at the _Waffen SS_ club-house in the morning
and that at 8 o’clock in the evening he had supper in the Ho”ss residence
(the “Home.”) It does not detail what Pohl did in between.
Kramer, in his diary, also noted Grawitz’s visit:
“September 25, 1942. Gruppenfu”hrer Grawitz visited the hospital and the
camp. During the visit he asked me what a physician should, first of all,
prescribe in all cases of infectious diseases. I really could not give an
answer as it is not possible to generalize in such cases. And what was it
he had in mind? Listen and be surprised – a laxative! As if a physician
should prescribe a laxative for every cold, angina, diphtheria, not to
mention typhoid! …” (_KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220-221.)
Aside from Kramer’s obvious incredulity at Grawitz’s decidedly “odd” ideas
as to what treatment a physician should prescribe for infectious diseases,
Kramer _does_ note that Grawitz’s visited (inspected) “the hospital and
the camp.”
And what did Grawitz’s inspection find? According to Danuta Czech:
“SS Chief Doctor and Head of the Sanitation Central Office, SS General Dr.
Ernst Robert Grawitz, inspects the Camp.* During his visit he inspects the
overcrowded infirmaries, the morgue, and the temporary sewage plant in
Birkenau. He is present at a gassing of Jews and the subsequent burning of
the bodies in the pits. He sees that the medical supervision by the SS
Camp Doctors is unsatisfactory and that the patients do not receive
adequate care and also notes the generally bad health of the prisoners.”
(_Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.244. Ref: APMO, Ho”ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61; SAM
_Auschwitz in the Eyes of the SS_, Kremer’s Diary, p.222.)
So here, at least, we _know_ that Pressac is correct. But what about
Pressac’s cite of Kramer’s diary in regards to Pohl?
First, it must be pointed out that the (inaccurate) passage that Mattagoro
objects to so stridently does not come from Pressac’s _Technique_ but from
Gutman’s and Berenbuam’s _Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_ (p.222).
The _exact_ text appears as follows:
“On the morning of September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu”hrer
Oswald Pohl, suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons
of Zyklon B were going. [footnote 101] Pohl went first to the
Zentralbauleitung, had the overall layout of the camp explained to him,
and got a description of the buildings that had been completed, those
under construction (including the four crematoria in Birkenau), and the
ones still on the drawing board. When he asked about the Zyklon B, he was
told that the product was for the simultaneous destruction of lice and
Jews. Pohl had no further questions on that topic. To prevent typhoid and
malaria, he recommended speeding up construction of a large water
purification plant.”
Now the interesting thing here is _where_ in this passage Pressac makes
reference to Kremer’s diary with footnote 101: “On the morning of
September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu”hrer Oswald Pohl,
suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons of Zyklon B
were going…. [footnote 101]”
How is one to read this? Mr. Roberts obviously thinks this damns Pressac
as a liar. But does it? I argue that it does not. In fact, I would further
argue it is quite innocent in regards as to _where_ the cite to the
footnote is placed in the passage. It is placed in context to Pohl’s
_arrival_, which Kremer’s diary notes as being on September 23, 1942.
Pressac, then, is in accordance with Kremer’s diary in this respect. Only
_after_ this footnote does Pressac detail the _purpose_ of Pohl’s visit,
which is _not_ mentioned in Kremer’s diary.
This, taken into consideration with the fact that Pressac’s _previous_
work in _Technique_, which makes no allusions to Kremer’s diary detailing
the _purpose_ or _activities_ of Pohl’s visit, indicates that Pressac’s
reference to Kramer’s diary in _Anatomy_ is an honest one and not in the
least deceptive- as it simply pins down the _date_ of Pohl’s visit. This
is further reinforced by the fact that Pressac is also in accordance with
Kremer’s diary on Grawitz’s September 25, 1942 visit, and with Czech’s
_Auschwitz Chronicle_ (i.e. APMO, Ho”ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61) as to the
purpose and details of Grawitz’s visit.
So who, really, is the liar here? Pressac or _Mr. Roberts_? Or is this a
case of sublime ignorance (and _very_ poor research skills) on Mattagoro’s
(and Mr. Robert’s) part? I’m sure DvdThomas would like to believe it was
ignorance on Mattagoro’s (and Mr. Robert’s) part. (I’m curious as to hear
if DvdThomas objects to Mr. Roberts calling Pressac a liar on such flimsy
grounds?) But considering such “ignorance” seems to be a recurring theme
with Mattagoro _and_ Mr. Roberts, I have my doubts.
Either way Mattagoro and Mr. Roberts, whether out of ignorance and
ineptitude- or intellectual dishonesty, have once more proven themselves
to be a true denier “scholars.”
And once more proven that their “work” can be dismissed.
Mark
posted/e-mailed to Mr. Robert and DvdThomas.
——————————————————————————–
“Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
— Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
Reposted October 10, 1996, in response to another
“Pressac is a liar” post by Jeff Roberts.
From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Jun 29 08:15:50 PDT 1996
Article: 46648 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: PRESSAC IS A LIAR
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:46:57 -0700
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References: <475192702wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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References
“WOMEN IN THE RESISTANCE AND IN THE HOLOCAUST: THE VOICES OF EYEWITNESSES”
Edited (and with introduction) by Vera Laska. Greenwood Press, Westport &
London, 1983. LOC 82-12018, ISBN 0-313-23457-4 p. 226
See also Robert Jay Lifton’s “The Nazi Doctors,” chapter 1.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: War Criminal: Dr. Ernst Grawitz
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The Old Frog’s Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: Auschwitz,Grawitz
“Dr. Ernst Grawitz, SS and Police Gruppenfuehrer (Lt. Colonel) was the top
doctor in the SS. He was the one who suggested to Himmler in the summer of
1941 gas chambers as means to the `Final Solution,’ i.e. the mass
extermination of Jews. He knew of and kept an executive’s eye on numerous
other experiments with human guinea pigs at various concentration camps, for
instance body resistance to freezing, jaundice, typhus (research done for
I.G. Farben), and the drinkability of sea water. He committed suicide in
1945.”
Extracted from————————————————————
“WOMEN IN THE RESISTANCE AND IN THE HOLOCAUST:
THE VOICES OF EYEWITNESSES”
Edited (and with introduction) by Vera Laska. Greenwood Press, Westport &
London, 1983. LOC 82-12018, ISBN 0-313-23457-4 p. 226
————————————————————————–
=== The Old Frog’s Almanac, Vancouver Island, Canada ===
