Documents

Giwer Matt-Report 1

Matt Giwer has singlehandedly hijacked alt.revisionism. Like the
proverbial frog in water slowly brought to a boil, we barely noticed
until our newsgroup became almost unusable. With trolls, with insults,
with straight-lines, with idiocy, with three-word responses, with lies,
and even with an occasional worthwhile point, he has buried any signal
that there might have been under an avalanche of noise.

This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
and his success in monopolizing discussion.

Here are the statistics for June 1st through 9th:

Total number of articles posted: 1832
Articles from Matt Giwer: 232 (12.7%)
Articles mentioning Giwer: 335 (18.3%)

Articles per day from Giwer: 25.8
Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 37.2

Here is a graphical representation of posts from Giwer and posts
mentioning Giwer for these days. Each “F” represents one article
from Giwer; each “M” represents one additional article with the
string “giwer” somewhere in its header or body.

Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 8: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 7: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 6: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 5: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMM
Jun 4: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 3: FFFFFFFMMMMMM
Jun 2: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
Jun 1: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMM

It is technically possible to cut off Matt Giwer from this group.
However, it would not be morally proper, since he is not conducting
malicious forgeries, (what is usually known as) spamming, or any other
activities which would warrant an infringement on his freedom of speech.
All we can do is ignore him, and hope he gets bored and goes away.
Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!
newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.island.net!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: 19 Jun 1996 01:31:41 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca (page does not exist)
X-Nizkor-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (page does not exist)
X-Giwer-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/(page does not exist)

NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile (page does not exist)

For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt (page does not exist)
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies (page does not exist)

The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/ (page does not exist)

The Net Abuse FAQ:
http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html (page does not exist)

The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
http://www.cm.org/ (page does not exist)

alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm (page does not exist)
http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html (page does not exist)

The perl5 script that generates this automated posting was written by
Jamie McCarthy; feel free to post your comments publicly or to email
them to [email protected]. It posts three times a week.
Once a week (each Monday) it cross-posts to news.admin.net-abuse.misc.
In the interest of full disclosure, the script is available at:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?miscellany/giwer-report.pl

Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!pub1.tln.lib.mi.us!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.tacom.army.mil!ulowell.uml.edu!wang!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.island.net!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: 19 Jun 1996 09:44:27 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca
X-Nizkor-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/(page does not exist)
X-Giwer-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt (page does not exist)
Xref: news.voyager.net alt.revisionism:48899 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:54666

This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
and his success in monopolizing discussion.

Here are the statistics for June 10th through 13th:

Total number of articles posted: 816

Articles from Matt Giwer: 172 (21.1%)
Articles mentioning Giwer: 213 (26.1%)

Articles per day from Giwer: 43
Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 53.3

For comparison, here is the graph for the previous seven days:

Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM
Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 8: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 7: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies

The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/

The Net Abuse FAQ:
http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
http://www.cm.org/

alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm
http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html

From [email protected] Wed Jun 19 17:11:19 PDT 1996
Article: 44653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: 19 Jun 1996 15:09:10 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca
X-Nizkor-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
X-Giwer-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
and his success in monopolizing discussion.

Here are the statistics for June 14th through 16th:

Total number of articles posted: 834

Articles from Matt Giwer: 185 (22.2%)
Articles mentioning Giwer: 220 (26.4%)

Articles per day from Giwer: 61.7
Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 73.3

Here is a graphical representation of posts from Giwer and posts
mentioning Giwer for these days. Each “F” represents one article
>from Giwer; each “M” represents one additional article with the
string “giwer” somewhere in its header or body.

Jun 16: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

For comparison, here is the graph for the previous seven days:

Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM
Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM

NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies

The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/

The Net Abuse FAQ:
http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
http://www.cm.org/

alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm
http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html

Article 44816 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:18:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-48.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20 12:19:49 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>Matt Giwer has singlehandedly hijacked alt.revisionism. Like the
>proverbial frog in water slowly brought to a boil, we barely noticed
>until our newsgroup became almost unusable. With trolls, with insults,
>with straight-lines, with idiocy, with three-word responses, with lies,
>and even with an occasional worthwhile point, he has buried any signal
>that there might have been under an avalanche of noise.

>This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
>and his success in monopolizing discussion.

>Here are the statistics for June 1st through 9th:

> Total number of articles posted: 1832
> Articles from Matt Giwer: 232 (12.7%)
> Articles mentioning Giwer: 335 (18.3%)

> Articles per day from Giwer: 25.8
>Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 37.2

>Here is a graphical representation of posts from Giwer and posts
>mentioning Giwer for these days. Each “F” represents one article
>from Giwer; each “M” represents one additional article with the
>string “giwer” somewhere in its header or body.

> Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 8: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 7: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 6: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 5: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 4: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 3: FFFFFFFMMMMMM
> Jun 2: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
> Jun 1: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMM

>It is technically possible to cut off Matt Giwer from this group.
>However, it would not be morally proper, since he is not conducting
>malicious forgeries, (what is usually known as) spamming, or any other
>activities which would warrant an infringement on his freedom of speech.
>All we can do is ignore him, and hope he gets bored and goes away.

>NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

>To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

>For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies

>The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
>http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/

>The Net Abuse FAQ:
>http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

>The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
>http://www.cm.org/

>alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
>http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm
>http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html

>The perl5 script that generates this automated posting was written by
>Jamie McCarthy; feel free to post your comments publicly or to email
>them to [email protected]. It posts three times a week.
>Once a week (each Monday) it cross-posts to news.admin.net-abuse.misc.
>In the interest of full disclosure, the script is available at:
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?miscellany/giwer-report.pl

What an idiot.

I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.

Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.

To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
doing and am going to do.

To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a discussion
of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it over. I put
the NG back on track.

You folks can not say you were not warned. I told you what I would do
and then I did it. Alec told you what I would do and then I did it.

Thank you for acknowledging that poor little minus163 IQ me bested the
Gang of Six and the rest holohugger groupies. And now you are running
away with the “I can’t hear you” gradeschool method. Fine with me. I
know exactly how to use that with a vengence.

Alec will verify that one if he remembers.

So here is another little hint for you not to believe. You can not
simple isolate me. You have to isolate everyone who as not killfiled me
else there will be leaks which you will look like fools for not
answering. And this is for the lurkers, is it not? We are all self
aggrandizing in that manner.

But do not believe me this time. I can and will come in under another
name that is not killfiled. You folks have proven yourselves so
freaking dumb that I can do anything I want to show what idiots you are.

It is no wonder you still believe in a holocaust.

Article 44883 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:29:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20 2:31:06 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
>and his success in monopolizing discussion.

>Here are the statistics for June 14th through 16th:

> Total number of articles posted: 834

> Articles from Matt Giwer: 185 (22.2%)
> Articles mentioning Giwer: 220 (26.4%)

> Articles per day from Giwer: 61.7
>Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 73.3

>Jun 16: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
>Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

>For comparison, here is the graph for the previous seven days:

>Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM
>Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM

>It is technically possible to cut off Matt Giwer from this group.
>However, it would not be morally proper,

That has never stopped a holohugger before.

since he is not conducting
>malicious forgeries, (what is usually known as) spamming, or any other
>activities which would warrant an infringement on his freedom of speech.
>All we can do is ignore him, and hope he gets bored and goes away.

Why just lie about as you do about everything else?

Article 44892 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 20:38:03 GMT
Lines: 31

[email protected] (DvdThomas) writes:

# Ah, statistics!
#
# It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number
# of incidents of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same
# archival quotes, and how many of these produced no thread, not even
# one response.

I never posted dozens of copies of the same article in the same day,
as Giwer did and continues to do. I never replied to numerous
articles on the same day, simply by quoting them and appending
the same article over and over again, dozens of times.

# Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same
# material over, and over, and over, and over, until it burns into
# consciousness by default. (Graber made me do it!!)

It is typical of “revisionists” to confuse third-rate “cynicism”
for intelligence. You’re no exception. BTW, it’s Grabner, not Graber,
which may prove that for small minds all the repetition in the
world is not enough.

-Danny Keren.

—
In Message-ID: <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a “gas chamber” and “gassing cellar”
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn’t count, as they were really due
to “a morbid sense of humor” of the SS men who authored the documents.

Article 44903 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newton.hlthsrc.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Rich Graves)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Date: 20 Jun 1996 13:03:43 -0700
Organization: Uncensored Internet, http://www.c2.org/uncensored/
Lines: 29
Sender: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: networking.stanford.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:44903 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55090

[email protected] writes:
>Matt Giwer has singlehandedly hijacked alt.revisionism.

I don’t believe this is true. Posts “from Matt Giwer” have come from more
than one machine at once. They’ve got at least two Windows boxes, one
configured with a WinGate proxy server and “From: [email protected]
(Matt Giwer)”, the other a WinGate client and “From: [email protected]”
[no GCOS name]. Because of the proxy server setup, articles show up with
the same NNTP-Posting-Host, but the From: line and other differences
distinguish which articles were posted from which machine.

Here are some more long-term stats culled from DejaNews over the period
96/04/15 – 96/06/15. The number of articles is inflated somewhat because
DejaNews breaks up long articles and counts the pieces, but this shouldn’t
skew the percentages much.

Articles in alt.revisionism: 18,327
Articles from mgiwer@*: 2,862 or 15.6%
Articles matching “giwer* | myshkin | mgiwer*”: 7,256 or 39.6%

(Prince Myshkin, the lead character in Dostoievsky’s “The Idiot,” is a
common synonym for Giwer.)

The last statistic includes articles by Giwer. DejaNews doesn’t (seem to)
have a way to filter all articles EXCEPT those from a specific author. The
logical ! only seems to work with & or |, i.e., you need to do a positive
search.

-rich

Article 44936 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:53:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4qc06[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20 7:55:34 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (DvdThomas) writes:

># Ah, statistics!
>#
># It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number
># of incidents of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same
># archival quotes, and how many of these produced no thread, not even
># one response.

>I never posted dozens of copies of the same article in the same day,
>as Giwer did and continues to do. I never replied to numerous
>articles on the same day, simply by quoting them and appending
>the same article over and over again, dozens of times.

I use the articles as sigs. Is that a crime now? Note that most of
them are shorter than the mantra you folks delight in using.

I further note that messages whose sole content is an attack on me will
be responded to with attacks upon the credibilitity of your holocaust.
The manner in which I choose to attack is by appending the stories I am
using as sigs.

Now where were you when the mantra was being repeated a hundred times a
day? Where are you now when there are dozens of threads that consist
of nothing but attacks upon me?

And just what is it that you are objecting to really?

Don’t tell me. I know. I do not believe as you do.

># Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same
># material over, and over, and over, and over, until it burns into
># consciousness by default. (Graber made me do it!!)

>It is typical of “revisionists” to confuse third-rate “cynicism”
>for intelligence. You’re no exception. BTW, it’s Grabner, not Graber,
>which may prove that for small minds all the repetition in the
>world is not enough.

Someone must be making you do it. To do so on your own would mean you
have to believe it is contributing something to the discussion.

>-Danny Keren.

Now you see, here is an example of an attack.

>–
>In Message-ID: <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer
>suggested that documents about a “gas chamber” and “gassing cellar”
>in the Birkenau crematoriums didn’t count, as they were really due
>to “a morbid sense of humor” of the SS men who authored the documents.

And my response is

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

See how it goes?

Article 44973 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (DvdThomas)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: 20 Jun 1996 13:02:20 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected] (DvdThomas)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Ah, statistics!

It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents
of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes,
and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response.
Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material over,
and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by
default. (Graber made me do it!!)
_________________________________________________________

“The kind of person who always insists
on his way of seeing things
can never learn anything from anyone.” – Tao Te Ching, 24

Article 44979 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 21:43:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20 4:44:58 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

>Ah, statistics!

>It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents
>of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes,
>and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response.
>Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material over,
>and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by
>default. (Graber made me do it!!)

It is only “spamming” when others do it in “their” conference.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

Article 45046 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUN 17-18: 32.1% / 37.4%
Followup-To: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism
Date: 21 Jun 1996 05:09:14 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca
X-Nizkor-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
X-Giwer-URL: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

“As long at you folks continue to post about me I will respond.
The longer the post the long[er] my tagline will be.”
– Matt Giwer, June 20, 1996

Nizkor wishes, and others wish, to be able to confront “revisionist”
claims. Giwer’s tactics make that essentially impossible.

This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
and his success in monopolizing the group.

Here are the statistics for June 17th and 18th:

Total number of articles posted: 546

Articles from Matt Giwer: 175 (32.1%)
Articles mentioning Giwer: 204 (37.4%)

Articles per day from Giwer: 87.5
Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 102

Here is a graphical representation of posts from Giwer and posts
mentioning Giwer for these days. Each “F” represents one article
from Giwer; each “m” represents one additional article with the
string “giwer” somewhere in its header or body.

For comparison, here is the graph for the previous seven days:

Jun 16: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmm
Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmmmmm
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmmmm
Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmm
Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFmmmmmmmmmmmm

NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse

The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/

The Net Abuse FAQ:
http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
http://www.cm.org/

alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm
http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html

Article 45082 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: 20 Jun 1996 12:27:36 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31sg0.stanford.edu

I suggest we start a list of people who will stop responding to Matt
Giwer:

1. Rich Green
2.
3.
4.
.
.
.

Regards,

Rich Green

PS If Mr. Giwer repeatedly sends the same text to the newsgroup,
however, I will e-mail it back to him and [email protected].

—
—————————————————————————-
Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
[email protected] Stanford University
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
“Remember the days of yore,
“Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
-Deuteronomy 32:7

Article 45089 of alt.revisionism:
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From: “Duncan Coons” <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:47:52 -0500
Organization: —–
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on4-27.netcom.ca
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 21 1:20:03 AM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1085

> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote in article
<[email protected]>…

> NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.
>
> To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

An idea truly worthy of Nizkor. But I have a better one. Why don’t
Nizkorians kill all Giwer’s posts, and revisionists/deniers can kill all
Nizkor’s. That way no-one will ever suffer the painful indignity of
reading material he disagrees with, and we will in effect have two
newsgroups for the price of one. Peace and harmony will follow.

Article 45104 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: 21 Jun 1996 08:20:37 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4q9tq6$cbm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.almanac.bc.ca

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>I suggest we start a list of people who will stop responding to Matt
>Giwer:

Giwer’s still here? Still posting? (Gotta love that trn KILL file.)

—
Nizkor Canada – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
FTP Canada: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?
FTP Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction – permanently!)……unlearn

Article 45106 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!uniserve!usenet
From: [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 06:16:28 GMT
Organization: myssiwyg*
Lines: 33
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default>
NNTP-Posting-Host: van0126.tvs.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

In <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default>, “Duncan Coons”
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote in article
><[email protected]>…

>> NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.
>>
>> To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
>> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

>An idea truly worthy of Nizkor. But I have a better one. Why don’t
>Nizkorians kill all Giwer’s posts, and revisionists/deniers can kill all
>Nizkor’s. That way no-one will ever suffer the painful indignity of
>reading material he disagrees with, and we will in effect have two
>newsgroups for the price of one. Peace and harmony will follow.

Well, Mr. Coons your suggestion would seem to indicate that you have
read very few of Giwer’s posts. As for deniers “killing” Nizkor
posts, perhaps you have read few of theirs as well. For all the
relevance of many of their responses to the points raised in Nizkor
posts, one might well infer that they are already ignoring them.

hro

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: [email protected]
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster – The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

Article 45147 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!aanews.merit.net!news.voyager.net!clmx51.dial.voyager.net!user
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:15:57 -0400
Organization: Absence Software
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vixa.voyager.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45147 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55255

[email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

> Ah, statistics!
>
> It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents
> of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes,
> and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response.
> Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material over,
> and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by
> default. (Graber made me do it!!)

You’ve missed the point. Dr. Keren and Mr. McVay have not publicly
declared their intentions to be:

making this a “spam conference” [1];
responding to questions with irrelevant, long propaganda [2];
posting under fake names to dodge peoples’ killfiles [3];

or, my favorite:

“making it” (this newsgroup) “useless” to anyone who would
challenge revisionist dogma [4].

They do not proudly refer to their postings as “barrages” [5]. They do
not brag about being able to “make this conference do anything they
want” [6].

But I guess that must have slipped your mind.

In short, the difference is that McVay and Keren are not flagrant
net abusers. The statistics are not about whether Mr. Giwer _is_ a
flagrant net abuser; they are only reports on how _successful_ he is.

1. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.03
2. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/the-longer-my-tagline
3. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.02
4. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/make-it-useless
5. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/five-day-barrage
6. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.01

Just for kicks, I ran the script on them anyway, for June 1st – 15th.

Mr. McVay is certainly the most prolific anti-denier poster to this
newsgroup (or he was last time I checked). He maintains the official
FAQ and his crontab regularly posts files selected from his archives.
He’s frequently insulted by the Nazi-types who cross-post from
alt.politics.nationalism.white, so his “mention” rating should be fairly
high. (Though, to be fair, their misspellings of his name — “McOyVay”
— wouldn’t have been picked up by the script. 🙂

You’ll recall that Giwer’s statistics have been rising steadily this
month, reaching about 21% of the articles posted in alt.revisionism,
with mentions of him hitting about 26%.

Mr. McVay: 4.8% / 6.0%. He’s the most prolific, remember.

Dr. Keren: 2.8% / 3.0%. That includes an uncharacteristically large
number of posts on the 14th, a collection of SS testimonies which had
been posted separately over the last few years but never collected
together in one series.

To put it graphically, here would be the bar charts for the last week:

MCVAY

Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFM
Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
Jun 13: FFMM
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFMMM
Jun 11: FFFFFFFMMMM
Jun 10: FFFFFFFMMM
Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFMM

KEREN

Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFMM
Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMM
Jun 13: M
Jun 12: FF
Jun 11: FFFFFFF
Jun 10:
Jun 9:

GIWER

Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM
Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMM
Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Do you see the difference, “DvdThomas”?

Posted; cross-posted to news.admin.net-abuse.misc. Please redirect
followups to whichever group is most appropriate.

Not emailed to “DvdThomas,” because he has said he doesn’t care to
receive email from me. Not emailed to Matt Giwer, because he has
said he doesn’t care to receive email from me.
—
Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
[email protected] Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-“revisionism” email
to be in the public domain. I speak only for myself.

Article 45153 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!aanews.merit.net!news.voyager.net!clmx46.dial.voyager.net!user
From: [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 03:39:12 -0400
Organization: Absence Software
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vixa.voyager.net

In <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default>, “Duncan Coons”
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Why don’t Nizkorians
> kill all Giwer’s posts, and revisionists/deniers can kill all
> Nizkor’s. That way no-one will ever suffer the painful indignity of
> reading material he disagrees with, and we will in effect have two
> newsgroups for the price of one. Peace and harmony will follow.

If you were paying attention, Mr. Coons, you would know that I most
certainly do not ignore revisionists/deniers. I pay them quite a
bit of attention. I’ve carried on discussions with (to name a few)
Jack Wikoff, Bradley Smith, David Cole, David Irving, Andrew Allen,
Alexander Baron, and I’m trying to discuss something with
Jean-Francois Beaulieu but technical difficulties are making it hard…

Anyway, the point is that none of those people has announced that
their goal is to take over the newsgroup and make it a place where
discussion is next to impossible. None of those people is flagrant
net abusers who troll just to stir up trouble. And all of those
people at least had some interest in discussing matters with me.

Giwer is just a troll, and he’s out to destroy discussion. There’s
nothing wrong with ignoring someone who has those goals.

Posted/emailed.
—
Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
[email protected] Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-“revisionism” email
to be in the public domain. I speak only for myself.

Article 45171 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!News.Uni-Marburg.DE!ps1031
From: [email protected] (Nele Abels)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 15:39:12 GMT
Organization: Hochschulrechenzentrum der Universitaet Marburg
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ps1031.fremdsprachen-literaturen.uni-marburg.de
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1

[email protected] wrote:
> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>doing and am going to do.

I was right. This man is emotionally disturbed. We are obviously witnessing the
symptoms of an approaching megalomania.

> You folks can not say you were not warned. I told you what I would do
>and then I did it. Alec told you what I would do and then I did it.
> Thank you for acknowledging that poor little minus163 IQ me bested the
>Gang of Six and the rest holohugger groupies. And now you are running
>away with the “I can’t hear you” gradeschool method. Fine with me. I
>know exactly how to use that with a vengence.

Power fantasies. Taking refuge to the tactics of “cut and paste”, Mr. Giwer manages
to fool himself into believing that his sheer quantitiy of posts does in any way
disprove us.

> So here is another little hint for you not to believe. You can not
>simple isolate me. You have to isolate everyone who as not killfiled me
>else there will be leaks which you will look like fools for not
>answering. And this is for the lurkers, is it not? We are all self
>aggrandizing in that manner.

In the computerized existence of Mr. Giwer, this could be understood as the
equivalent of immortality…

Nele

Article 45198 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 01:18:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 21 6:20:50 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Nele Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
>> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
>> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>>doing and am going to do.

>I was right. This man is emotionally disturbed. We are obviously witnessing the
>symptoms of an approaching megalomania.

That is what was posted by others. Now they are trying to make some
kind of issue out of it in net abuse.

>> You folks can not say you were not warned. I told you what I would do
>>and then I did it. Alec told you what I would do and then I did it.
>> Thank you for acknowledging that poor little minus163 IQ me bested the
>>Gang of Six and the rest holohugger groupies. And now you are running
>>away with the “I can’t hear you” gradeschool method. Fine with me. I
>>know exactly how to use that with a vengence.

>Power fantasies. Taking refuge to the tactics of “cut and paste”, Mr. Giwer manages
>to fool himself into believing that his sheer quantitiy of posts does in any way
>disprove us.

The holohuggers were under the delusion that shear volume and name
calling disproved revisionism. What do you see as the difference?

>> So here is another little hint for you not to believe. You can not
>>simple isolate me. You have to isolate everyone who as not killfiled me
>>else there will be leaks which you will look like fools for not
>>answering. And this is for the lurkers, is it not? We are all self
>>aggrandizing in that manner.

>In the computerized existence of Mr. Giwer, this could be understood as the
>equivalent of immortality…

Nizkor did that with there Nazi files on me.

Article 45211 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 03:12:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 143
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 21 10:14:48 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45211 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55321

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

>> Ah, statistics!
>>
>> It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents
>> of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes,
>> and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response.
>> Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material over,
>> and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by
>> default. (Graber made me do it!!)

>You’ve missed the point. Dr. Keren and Mr. McVay have not publicly
>declared their intentions to be:

> making this a “spam conference” [1];

I use them as rotating sigs, they are not the message. But of course
you would rather misrepresent it as otherwise.

> responding to questions with irrelevant, long propaganda [2];

Not in the least.

> posting under fake names to dodge peoples’ killfiles [3];

Excuse me, but what fake names have I used? You mean it would improper
to use Marduk? Where were you then?

> or, my favorite:

> “making it” (this newsgroup) “useless” to anyone who would
> challenge revisionist dogma [4].

But that is what you folks have deliberately done for years and have
bragged about doing it. So what can you possibly be complaining about?

You folks have been the thought control freaks and you folks are quite
proud of it.

>They do not proudly refer to their postings as “barrages” [5]. They do
>not brag about being able to “make this conference do anything they
>want” [6].

>But I guess that must have slipped your mind.

>In short, the difference is that McVay and Keren are not flagrant
>net abusers. The statistics are not about whether Mr. Giwer _is_ a
>flagrant net abuser; they are only reports on how _successful_ he is.

I have read more of Keren’s repetative crap than I have ever posted.

The malicious little mantra has been posted thousands of times.

Where were you then?

Why are you only doing your stuck pig impression now?

>1. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.03
>2. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/the-longer-my-tagline
>3. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.02
>4. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/make-it-useless
>5. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/five-day-barrage
>6. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.01

>Just for kicks, I ran the script on them anyway, for June 1st – 15th.

>Mr. McVay is certainly the most prolific anti-denier poster to this
>newsgroup (or he was last time I checked). He maintains the official
>FAQ and his crontab regularly posts files selected from his archives.
>He’s frequently insulted by the Nazi-types who cross-post from
>alt.politics.nationalism.white, so his “mention” rating should be fairly
>high. (Though, to be fair, their misspellings of his name — “McOyVay”
>– wouldn’t have been picked up by the script. 🙂

>You’ll recall that Giwer’s statistics have been rising steadily this
>month, reaching about 21% of the articles posted in alt.revisionism,
>with mentions of him hitting about 26%.

>Mr. McVay: 4.8% / 6.0%. He’s the most prolific, remember.

>Dr. Keren: 2.8% / 3.0%. That includes an uncharacteristically large
>number of posts on the 14th, a collection of SS testimonies which had
>been posted separately over the last few years but never collected
>together in one series.

Perhaps they are not as dedicated to permitting alternative ideas to be
published as they are.

>To put it graphically, here would be the bar charts for the last week:

>MCVAY

>Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFM
>Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
>Jun 13: FFMM
>Jun 12: FFFFFFFFMMM
>Jun 11: FFFFFFFMMMM
>Jun 10: FFFFFFFMMM
> Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFMM

>KEREN

>Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFMM
>Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMM
>Jun 13: M
>Jun 12: FF
>Jun 11: FFFFFFF
>Jun 10:
> Jun 9:

>GIWER

>Jun 15: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMM
>Jun 14: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 13: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 12: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMM
>Jun 11: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMM
>Jun 10: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMM
> Jun 9: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

>Do you see the difference, “DvdThomas”?

Dedication to freedom of speech without permitting people who disagree
to be run out of the conference.

>Posted; cross-posted to news.admin.net-abuse.misc. Please redirect
>followups to whichever group is most appropriate.

>Not emailed to “DvdThomas,” because he has said he doesn’t care to
>receive email from me. Not emailed to Matt Giwer, because he has
>said he doesn’t care to receive email from me.

Quite correct. That is one of the earliest forms of harrassment you
folks used. And after I explained what the problem was you folks chose
to spam the conference with messages about that.

Speaking of spamming, why is it OK when you folks do it?

Article 45229 of alt.revisionism:
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From: Johan Carlson <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:57:14 +0200
Organization: Luleå University
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4q9tq6$cbm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: nairobi.campus.luth.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (Win95; I)

Richard J. Green wrote:
>
> I suggest we start a list of people who will stop responding to Matt
> Giwer:
>
> 1. Rich Green
> 2. Johan Carlson
> 3.
> 4.
> .
> .
> .
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Green
>
> PS If Mr. Giwer repeatedly sends the same text to the newsgroup,
> however, I will e-mail it back to him and [email protected].
>

Good idea Mr. Green. Maybe the Nizkor people could include (or mention)
this list in their Giwer Report.

Article 45249 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 09:31:29 GMT
Lines: 14

For God’s sake, now this retard is starting to spam with
articles about his spamming!!

There’s no escape…

-Danny Keren.

Article 45266 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUN 17-18: 32.1% / 37.4%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:17:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl8-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22 5:19:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:68 alt.revisionism:45266

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> “As long at you folks continue to post about me I will respond.
> The longer the post the long[er] my tagline will be.”
> – Matt Giwer, June 20, 1996

>Matt Giwer has singlehandedly hijacked alt.revisionism.

Keep that singlehandedly firmly in mind.

You folks called me an anti-semite and a nazi without cause. You
harrassed my service provider. You harrassed my family. You did
anything you could to silence me.

Consider it righteous Jewish revenge.

I never did tell you that, did I.

Article 45290 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Gord McFee)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:00:07 EDT
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip129-37-167-114.pq.ca.ibm.net
X-Newsreader: MR/2 Classic v2.26 – An OS/2 QWK reader
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45290 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55401

In article <4[email protected]>, [email protected] (Rich Graves)
said:

>
>[email protected] writes:
>>Matt Giwer has singlehandedly hijacked alt.revisionism.

>I don’t believe this is true. Posts “from Matt Giwer” have come from more
>than one machine at once. They’ve got at least two Windows boxes, one
>configured with a WinGate proxy server and “From: [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer)”, the other a WinGate client and “From: [email protected]”
> [no GCOS name]. Because of the proxy server setup, articles show up with
>the same NNTP-Posting-Host, but the From: line and other differences
>distinguish which articles were posted from which machine.

What is your suggestion, Rich? That there is more than one Giwer? That
more than one person is posting as Giwer?

—
Gord McFee

.. I’ll write no line before its time([email protected])
— MR/2 2.26 #331

Article 10952 of soc.history.what-if:
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From: [email protected] (John Morris)
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Subject: Don’t disagree with Giwer I (was Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%)
Followup-To: soc.history.what-if
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:52:51 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 142
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: async6-6.remote.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227

Posted as a courtesy and a warning to soc.history.what-if

Whatever you do, do not disagree with Matt Giwer. Mr. Giwer has
announced his intention to (continue to) flood alt.revisionism with
spam posts until the discussion and the subject matter suits his
opinions.

Please read Mr. Giwer’s response at the bottom of this long quoted
message with care. This is what will happen to your newsgroup if you
disagree with him.

My apologies to readers of soc.history.what-if for taking up the
bandwidth. Only one more post will follow on this topic.

<quote>

On Thu, 20 Jun 1996 07:18:02 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>This automated posting script keeps track of Giwer’s posting volume
>and his success in monopolizing discussion.

>Here are the statistics for June 1st through 9th:

> Total number of articles posted: 1832
> Articles from Matt Giwer: 232 (12.7%)
> Articles mentioning Giwer: 335 (18.3%)

> Articles per day from Giwer: 25.8
>Articles per day mentioning Giwer: 37.2

>NIZKOR URGES ALL ALT.REVISIONISM READERS TO COMPLETELY IGNORE HIM.

>To ignore him most effectively, use a KILL file on your news reader:
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/killfile

>For more information about Matt Giwer, see:
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/lies

>The EFF’s “Net Abuse and ‘Spamming’ Archive”:
>http://ftp.eff.org/pub/Net_culture/Folklore/Spam/

>The Net Abuse FAQ:
>http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

>The Cancelmoose/NoCeM web site:
>http://www.cm.org/

>alt.religion.scientology and “vertical spam”:
>http://www.bway.net/~keith/spam/spam.htm
>http://daemon.apana.org.au/~fjc/scn/spam.html

What an idiot.

I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered”
months later. Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore
it.

Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I
can do you propose a course of action that is rather counter
productive.

To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more
quickly if people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe
me. I love a fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling
you what I am doing and am going to do.

To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a
discussion of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it
over. I put the NG back on track.

You folks can not say you were not warned. I told you what I
would do and then I did it. Alec told you what I would do and then I
did it.

Thank you for acknowledging that poor little minus163 IQ me
bested the Gang of Six and the rest holohugger groupies. And now you
are running away with the “I can’t hear you” gradeschool method. Fine
with me. I know exactly how to use that with a vengence.

Alec will verify that one if he remembers.

So here is another little hint for you not to believe. You
can not simple isolate me. You have to isolate everyone who as not
killfiled me else there will be leaks which you will look like fools
for not answering. And this is for the lurkers, is it not? We are
all self aggrandizing in that manner.

But do not believe me this time. I can and will come in under
another name that is not killfiled. You folks have proven yourselves
so freaking dumb that I can do anything I want to show what idiots you
are.

It is no wonder you still believe in a holocaust.

</quote>
—
John Morris <[email protected]>
at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
————————————————————————
The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
File archives – ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
Web page – http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Article 45302 of alt.revisionism:
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From: Keith Morrison <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:02:19 -0300
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <01bb5f39.2dc9e000$5bded3c6@default> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lysithea.sun.csd.unb.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c)

[email protected] wrote:

> Please ignore me. That makes it easier and all the manufactured
> complaints about what I post will go away. It will be greatly
> appreciated.

Yeah, then you might be able to get those ridiculous statements out
without anyone checking. Why, if I’d never spend the eight to ten
seconds a day in the library to prove you wrong if you were not
around.

—
Keith Morrison
[email protected]

Article 45339 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:16:36 GMT
Lines: 42
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55451 alt.revisionism:45339

[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

# The situation is that some years ago there was an organized
# effort by at least six people to take over alt.revisionism in order
# to prevent revisionism to be discussed.

And outright lie from a pathological liar.

# They brag about having driven off everyone who tries to discuss
revisionism.

Example?

# They use any method open to them. They start with simple verbal abuse
# which one has to expect in an alt conference. But then it goes to
# harrassing people ISP, the person personally, and even their families.
# All of this happened in my case.

I suggest you watch it, nazi-boy. You are making a strong accusation
here. I certainly did not harass your family, neither your ISP. I
pity your family, actually.

# These people are the real scum of the earth.

Now tell us more about Belsen camp which you claimed was in Poland,
and about your claim that Zyklon does not release HCN in a temperature
of 20 degrees.

the future of “revisionism” depends on your reply.

Get dem famous 163 IQ points you brag about to work and get some
answers, quick.

We also want to hear more about your claim that the mention of “gas
chamber” and “gassing cellar” in SS documents is due to a “morbid
sense of humor” of the people writing the documents.

Explain this to us poor folks who don’t have 163 IQ.

-Danny Keren.

Article 45364 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:00:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 111
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22 3:02:58 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45364 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55465

[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

>You’ve missed the point. Dr. Keren and Mr. McVay have not publicly
>declared their intentions to be:

> making this a “spam conference” [1];

This was a comment of mine in response to specific threat of theirs to
duplicate everything I post in the conference. Thus they were the ones
making the threat. I merely put a name to the consequences of such a
threat.

> responding to questions with irrelevant, long propaganda [2];

I do not do that, as you know.

> posting under fake names to dodge peoples’ killfiles [3];

This appears to be an issue with the outgoing news servers at Netcom not
all using the same user name, sometime the name I use, sometimes my
addr. However, there appear to be only three. You would think these
mavens could master three different names.

> or, my favorite:

> “making it” (this newsgroup) “useless” to anyone who would
> challenge revisionist dogma [4].

That is not what is said.

What I did say is that it could be made useless to the mind control
freaks who have been intent upon making a conference on revisionism
useless to people who want to talk about revisionism.

You folks have not only been doing that for years with personal insults
and harrassment including harrassment of people’s families but you have
bragged about doing so. You have bragged about driving people out of
the conference.

You folks have publically posted about email planning as to the best way
to get people to leave the conference.

I would say you folks should be the last stuck pigs to complain.

>They do not proudly refer to their postings as “barrages” [5]. They do
>not brag about being able to “make this conference do anything they
>want” [6].

>But I guess that must have slipped your mind.

>1. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.03
>2. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/the-longer-my-tagline
>3. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.02
>4. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/make-it-useless
>5. http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/five-day-barrage
>6. >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/brags-about-manipulation.01

You fail to note in public that the files on Nizkor are heavily censored
and altered to conceal the original intent and meaning of the posts.

You fail to note that the Gang of Six at Nizkor conspires by email to
prevent discussion of revisionism on alt.revisionism.

You fail to note the years of spamming the exact same messages on the
conference by members of Nizkor.

You fail to note that the posts to this conference are in fact one more
attempt to prevent discussion of revisionism as an attempt to silence
me.

Beyond that, you have told the full and complete truth.

>Just for kicks, I ran the script on them anyway, for June 1st – 15th.

You fail to note that you needed a lot of help to do this.

You fail to note that these were in response to what was posted on the
conference. Which of course is your objective, to stop responses to
what you folks post. You brag so much about stopping others from doing
so.

Jamie, me boy, you folks are simply getting a dose of what you have been
doing to others and bragging about for years.

Now that it has happened to you, you squeal like the stuck pigs you
really are. You folks on alt.revisionism is notorious for doing what I
describe. It will come as a surprise to no one.

You folks have bluntly referred to it as “our conference” but no one
owns an alt conference. Now you have learned that.

You are a liar, Jamie. I can not change that. You can change that.

Article 45388 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:34:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4qau2l$lmo@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22 5:36:33 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> What an idiot.
>>
>> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
>>
>> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
>>
>> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>>doing and am going to do.
>>
>> To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a discussion
>>of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it over. I put
>>the NG back on track.

> Excuse me, but I must be missing something. Other “revisionists” have
>posted here – Greg Raven, Tim McCarthy, Fritz Berg, Bradley Smith, Ross
>Vicksell, et al. And their claims have been addressed. They seem to have
>given it up. The only other ones currently left on any regular basis are
>J. F. Beaulieu, Tom Moran, Jeff Roberts, and Al Baron.

And I have read you folks bragging about driving them off. That is what
you are missing.

> So now the posting volume has increased. If that is your definition
>of “winning,” then Tom Moran could have done the same long ago.
>Congratulations, you are smarter than he is.

It is not my definition. You certainly read McCarthy’s message. I got
a similar one from McFly by email. They obvious had talked it over.

> But “discussion” of revision? You have made an assertion about the
>amount of coke needed for cremation. And several people have tried to sit
>down with you (including myself) and discuss it with you, getting down to
>hard numbers. You seem to keep changing the ground rules and avoid
>getting down to calculations. What kind of a discussion is that? What
>kind of scientist is that?

I have yet to see you folks post any calcualtions. When are you going
to get around to do so?

Article 45394 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:12:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22 3:14:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55491 alt.revisionism:45394

[email protected] (Rich Graves) wrote:

>[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
>>[email protected] (Rich Graves) wrote:
>>
>>> >singlehandedly
>>>
>>> I don’t believe this is true. Posts “from Matt Giwer” have come from more
>>> than one machine at once. They’ve got at least two Windows boxes, one
>>> configured with a WinGate proxy server and “From: [email protected]
>>> (Matt Giwer)”, the other a WinGate client and “From: [email protected]”
>>> [no GCOS name].
>>
>>Rich, for those of us who don’t know what WinGate is, could you explain
>>what this means?
>>
>>Is it logical to conclude that Giwer has a friend, or multiple friends,
>>using his account? Are the client and server necessarily on the same LAN,
>>or could a client anywhere on the internet access his server?

>The easiest tool for what he seems to be doing, and a likely suspect given
>his son’s job, is Adrien de Croy’s WinGate, a proxy server for Windows
>95/NT (some people improperly call it a router). Basically, it lets you
>connect multiple computers to the Internet through one SLIP/PPP
>connection. See http://www.windows95.com/connect/lansing.html

I have noticed this myself. In fact all that it is, is that netcom has
multiple outgoing news servers and they are not set the same. There
appear to be only three variants.

What these people are trying to do is create, out of whole cloth, a case
that I am abusing the net.

The situation is that some years ago there was an organized effort by at
least six people to take over alt.revisionism in order to prevent
revisionism to be discussed. They brag about having driven off everyone
who tries to discuss revisionism.

They use any method open to them. They start with simple verbal abuse
which one has to expect in an alt conference. But then it goes to
harrassing people ISP, the person personally, and even their families.
All of this happened in my case.

These people are the real scum of the earth.

This thread in this newsgoup is merely one more attempt to get me to
stop posting.

There is no truth to it. They are merely presenting information in a
false light so as to make it appear that I am doing something improper.

Article 45398 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:09:23 GMT
Organization: myssiwyg*
Lines: 46
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: van0128.tvs.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

In <4qh[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord McFee)
wrote:

>In article <4qc[email protected]>, [email protected] (DvdThomas)
>said:

>>
>>Ah, statistics!

>>It might also be interesting to see an analysis of the number of incidents
>>of Ken McVay and Dan Keren repeatedly posting the same archival quotes,
>>and how many of these produced no thread, not even one response.

Perhaps Mr. Thomas fails to realize that unlike “revisionist” quotes,
the material posted by Mr. McVay and Dr. Keren are appreciated by the
readership of this newsgroup for the informative documents that they
are intended to be. Unlike the wastes of bandwidths that precipitated
this particular discussion, they are relevant to the topics under
discussion.

>>Propagandizing of a base sort is done by repeating the same material
>>over, and over, and over, and over, until it burns into consciousness by
>>default. (Graber made me do it!!)

>The point being?

The point being, perhaps, that Mr. Thomas acknowledges that
“revisionists” choose to engage in “propagandizing of a base sort” –
as opposed to legitimate presentation of verifiable documentation to
support their “arguments”.

>Gord McFee

>.. I’ll write no line before its time([email protected])
>– MR/2 2.26 #331

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: [email protected]
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster – The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

Article 45415 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 23:15:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4qfprh$39[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22 6:17:59 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>For God’s sake, now this retard is starting to spam with
>articles about his spamming!!

>There’s no escape…

Now what are you talking about? Nothing again? But of course there is
another campaign starting to harrass my new service provider.

Holohuggers are so firmly into thought control that they will do
anything they can to try to silence those they disagree with.

A strong back must be a terrible thing to waste.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT

“PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. ”
IMT VII – p. 377.

Article 45428 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: 21 Jun 1996 16:39:30 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> What an idiot.
>
> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
>
> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
>
> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>doing and am going to do.
>
> To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a discussion
>of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it over. I put
>the NG back on track.

Excuse me, but I must be missing something. Other “revisionists” have
posted here – Greg Raven, Tim McCarthy, Fritz Berg, Bradley Smith, Ross
Vicksell, et al. And their claims have been addressed. They seem to have
given it up. The only other ones currently left on any regular basis are
J. F. Beaulieu, Tom Moran, Jeff Roberts, and Al Baron.

So now the posting volume has increased. If that is your definition
of “winning,” then Tom Moran could have done the same long ago.
Congratulations, you are smarter than he is.

But “discussion” of revision? You have made an assertion about the
amount of coke needed for cremation. And several people have tried to sit
down with you (including myself) and discuss it with you, getting down to
hard numbers. You seem to keep changing the ground rules and avoid
getting down to calculations. What kind of a discussion is that? What
kind of scientist is that?

—
Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.

Article 45435 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (John Morris)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 06:32:33 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: async7-6.remote.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55512 alt.revisionism:45435

On Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:12:15 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
wrote:

>
> The situation is that some years ago there was an organized effort by at
>least six people to take over alt.revisionism in order to prevent
>revisionism to be discussed. They brag about having driven off everyone
>who tries to discuss revisionism.

Names?

Thought not.

—
John Morris <[email protected]>
at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
————————————————————————
The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
File archives – ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
Web page – http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Article 45439 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 06:42:49 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: async7-6.remote.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45439 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55518

On Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:00:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]

> You fail to note that the Gang of Six at Nizkor conspires by email to
>prevent discussion of revisionism on alt.revisionism.

Mr. Giwer, you have frequently posted my name in alt.revisionism as a
member of this so-called “Gang of Six.”

I categorically deny conspiring with anyone, by e-mail or otherwise,
to prevent discussion on any Usenet newsgroup.

Please post your evidence that I have been involved in such a
conspiracy, or withdraw the accusation.

Article 45465 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: 23 Jun 1996 05:19:46 GMT
Organization: Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Prince Myshkin ([email protected]) wrote:

: To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
: people follow your suggestion.

What a card this Myshkin guy is. As it happens, other revisionist types
(most notably Milton Kleim) have made this sort of claim before, and
this claim is invariably shown to be untrue. The lurkers on this
newsfroup almost certainly see you for what you are — a pathetic liar
with the inability to keep his own lies straight, let alone deal with
the refutations of those lies.

—–
Richard Schultz [email protected]
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
—–
“Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.” — The French Knight

Article 45474 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: 23 Jun 1996 01:13:38 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 145
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>> What an idiot.
>>>
>>> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>>>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
>>>
>>> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>>>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
>>>
>>> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>>>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>>>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>>>doing and am going to do.
>>>
>>> To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a discussion
>>>of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it over. I put
>>>the NG back on track.
>
>> Excuse me, but I must be missing something. Other “revisionists” have
>>posted here – Greg Raven, Tim McCarthy, Fritz Berg, Bradley Smith, Ross
>>Vicksell, et al. And their claims have been addressed. They seem to have
>>given it up. The only other ones currently left on any regular basis are
>>J. F. Beaulieu, Tom Moran, Jeff Roberts, and Al Baron.
>
> And I have read you folks bragging about driving them off. That is
>what you are missing.

No, you are the one missing something, or pretending to.

Greg Raven was exposed as a liar. It was repeatedly shown that he
posted dishonestly and deceptively edited sources and grossly distorted
paraphrases, and used invalid reasoning and arguments.

Tim McCarthy was shown to have done the same thing to one particular
document, and to have missed something in one of his own claimed sources
that refuted his own theory.

Fritz Berg was shown to have overlooked (at best) a number of issues
of toxicology and misrepresented some things in his own sources.

Bradley Smith was exposed as a hypocrite when he admitted he
introduced the Leuchter Report even though he knew there were flaws in it,
yet criticized Michael Berenbaum for not checking his sources carefully
enough.

Ross Vicksell simply wasn’t capable of debating anything. Every time
you turned around, he had to go ask someone else something.

The were not driven out by namecalling. Tim McCarthy certainly gave
as good as he got from the word go.

They were driven out because they were exposed as dishonest and
hypocritical, and realized that they were not advancing the cause any.

The only difference between you and them is, you don’t seem to mind be
be embarrassed by being caught in hypocrisy or in a lie. That is your
problem, not mine.

>> So now the posting volume has increased. If that is your definition
>>of “winning,” then Tom Moran could have done the same long ago.
>>Congratulations, you are smarter than he is.
>
> It is not my definition. You certainly read McCarthy’s message. I got
>a similar one from McFly by email. They obvious had talked it over.

Yes, I read his message. I am privy to the discussions that go on.

Did you know that I was the one who wrote the mantra, as you call it?
(The original, not Mark Van Alstine’s mutated version.) Yet I do not use
it. Because, you see, there really was no conspiracy. Other people
simply read it, liked it, and decided to use it. There was no advance
agreement. I never suggested that it be used. I never intended to use it.
I have not killfiled you. I respond to you just the same as I respond to
anyone else, on my own terms, if and when I choose.

I find it uproariously funny that you think it is such a revelation
that you are now dealing with Nizkor on your own terms. If you have
ever been doing anything but, then you are very, very, very stupid.

I have not tried to silence you. I merely point out when you are
lying or hypocritical. I have said that if my goal were to defend the
orthodox holocaust story at any cost, I would want you posting forever,
because you are a liar and easily shown to be such. But if my goal were
to defend the orthodox history at any cost, then I have done some very
strange things. Ask Jeff Roberts who it was who reported survivor
testimony that they were held in Auschwitz unregistered, then sent off to
other camps without any records being made.

So you have not beaten me, because I have never played any game other
than the one I have always played. You can only beat me at it if and when
you start playing it. But you are not capable of playing that game, 163
IQ or no.

If and when I decide to deal with you, you will be dealt with, and on
my own terms. Because just as you can get this newsgroup to do whatever
you want, I can summon spirits from the vasty deep, and invoke daemons by
name. (And I do not even need a pentagram.) I’m sure you are suitably
impressed.

>> But “discussion” of revision? You have made an assertion about the
>>amount of coke needed for cremation. And several people have tried to sit
>>down with you (including myself) and discuss it with you, getting down to
>>hard numbers. You seem to keep changing the ground rules and avoid
>>getting down to calculations. What kind of a discussion is that? What
>>kind of scientist is that?
>
> I have yet to see you folks post any calcualtions. When are you going
>to get around to do so?

Excuse me. You were the one claiming a physics degree and the ability
to do the calculations. You were the one claiming there was not enough
coke.

Your claims. Therefore your burden of proof, as you do not hestitate
to point out to other people who make claims. Yes, I know you hare not in
the least embarrassed when I point out your hypocrisy. Nevertheless, you
are once again being hypocritical.

Your claims, your burden of proof. Start calculating.

I think you are actually bluffing and cannot do the computations –
that you do not even know the correct equations. You are hoping to get
someone else to do them so that you can sit back and say, “You’re wrong!”
without actually having to back up your claims or make any claim which can
then be shown wrong by someone who really _does_ know what they’re doing.

You could, of course, prove me wrong by doing the calculations and
showing your work as you claimed you could do and were challenged to do.
But I predict you will not, because you are a lying fraud. That is not an
insult, that is simply a fact, which I cannot change. Only you can change
it.

—
Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.

Article 45482 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 09:26:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 23 2:28:23 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:45482 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:55547

[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:00:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>[snip]

>> You fail to note that the Gang of Six at Nizkor conspires by email to
>>prevent discussion of revisionism on alt.revisionism.

>Mr. Giwer, you have frequently posted my name in alt.revisionism as a
>member of this so-called “Gang of Six.”

>I categorically deny conspiring with anyone, by e-mail or otherwise,
>to prevent discussion on any Usenet newsgroup.

>Please post your evidence that I have been involved in such a
>conspiracy, or withdraw the accusation.

I got the contributor’s list from Nizkor. Tell them to take you off of
it if you do not want the honor. Until they take you off, don’t
complain to me.

Article 45505 of alt.revisionism:
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 10:03:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 23 5:06:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> What an idiot.
>>>>
>>>> I told you folks I would do what you have now “discovered” months later.
>>>>Alec told you what I would do. And you choose to ignore it.
>>>>
>>>> Now that you have noticed I really can do what you were told I can do
>>>>you propose a course of action that is rather counter productive.
>>>>
>>>> To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if
>>>>people follow your suggestion. But PLEASE do not believe me. I love a
>>>>fair fight. That is why I handicap you folks by telling you what I am
>>>>doing and am going to do.
>>>>
>>>> To recap, what I have done is put this conference back to a discussion
>>>>of revision rather than the orthodox who managed to take it over. I put
>>>>the NG back on track.
>>
>>> Excuse me, but I must be missing something. Other “revisionists” have
>>>posted here – Greg Raven, Tim McCarthy, Fritz Berg, Bradley Smith, Ross
>>>Vicksell, et al. And their claims have been addressed. They seem to have
>>>given it up. The only other ones currently left on any regular basis are
>>>J. F. Beaulieu, Tom Moran, Jeff Roberts, and Al Baron.
>>
>> And I have read you folks bragging about driving them off. That is
>>what you are missing.

> No, you are the one missing something, or pretending to.

> Greg Raven was exposed as a liar. It was repeatedly shown that he
>posted dishonestly and deceptively edited sources and grossly distorted
>paraphrases, and used invalid reasoning and arguments.

> Tim McCarthy was shown to have done the same thing to one particular
>document, and to have missed something in one of his own claimed sources
>that refuted his own theory.

> Fritz Berg was shown to have overlooked (at best) a number of issues
>of toxicology and misrepresented some things in his own sources.

> Bradley Smith was exposed as a hypocrite when he admitted he
>introduced the Leuchter Report even though he knew there were flaws in it,
>yet criticized Michael Berenbaum for not checking his sources carefully
>enough.

> Ross Vicksell simply wasn’t capable of debating anything. Every time
>you turned around, he had to go ask someone else something.

> The were not driven out by namecalling. Tim McCarthy certainly gave
>as good as he got from the word go.

> They were driven out because they were exposed as dishonest and
>hypocritical, and realized that they were not advancing the cause any.

> The only difference between you and them is, you don’t seem to mind be
>be embarrassed by being caught in hypocrisy or in a lie. That is your
>problem, not mine.

Thank you for being the first to post the evidence I was looking for.
You folks declared victory. You are now repeating the one sided
declaration of victory.

You have shot down your own side’s position. Thank you again.

>>> So now the posting volume has increased. If that is your definition
>>>of “winning,” then Tom Moran could have done the same long ago.
>>>Congratulations, you are smarter than he is.
>>
>> It is not my definition. You certainly read McCarthy’s message. I got
>>a similar one from McFly by email. They obvious had talked it over.

> Yes, I read his message. I am privy to the discussions that go on.

Conspiracy admitted. Thank you again. It is only a matter of time
before you folks contradict those who deny these things are going on.

> Did you know that I was the one who wrote the mantra, as you call it?

And you were a conspirator. Thank you again.

>(The original, not Mark Van Alstine’s mutated version.) Yet I do not use
>it. Because, you see, there really was no conspiracy. Other people
>simply read it, liked it, and decided to use it. There was no advance
>agreement. I never suggested that it be used. I never intended to use it.
>I have not killfiled you. I respond to you just the same as I respond to
>anyone else, on my own terms, if and when I choose.

The agreement was posted. It is on Dejanews.

> I find it uproariously funny that you think it is such a revelation
>that you are now dealing with Nizkor on your own terms. If you have
>ever been doing anything but, then you are very, very, very stupid.

Agreed in that. I am certainly not capable of singlehandedly hijacking
this conference as I have been accused of doing.

> I have not tried to silence you. I merely point out when you are
>lying or hypocritical. I have said that if my goal were to defend the
>orthodox holocaust story at any cost, I would want you posting forever,
>because you are a liar and easily shown to be such. But if my goal were
>to defend the orthodox history at any cost, then I have done some very
>strange things. Ask Jeff Roberts who it was who reported survivor
>testimony that they were held in Auschwitz unregistered, then sent off to
>other camps without any records being made.

> So you have not beaten me, because I have never played any game other
>than the one I have always played. You can only beat me at it if and when
>you start playing it. But you are not capable of playing that game, 163
>IQ or no.

Right, just one more stupid holohugger among many, right up there with
Ferree and Dahlman.

> If and when I decide to deal with you, you will be dealt with, and on
>my own terms. Because just as you can get this newsgroup to do whatever
>you want, I can summon spirits from the vasty deep, and invoke daemons by
>name. (And I do not even need a pentagram.) I’m sure you are suitably
>impressed.

Sounds serious. Why am I not concerned in the least?

>>> But “discussion” of revision? You have made an assertion about the
>>>amount of coke needed for cremation. And several people have tried to sit
>>>down with you (including myself) and discuss it with you, getting down to
>>>hard numbers. You seem to keep changing the ground rules and avoid
>>>getting down to calculations. What kind of a discussion is that? What
>>>kind of scientist is that?
>>
>> I have yet to see you folks post any calcualtions. When are you going
>>to get around to do so?

> Excuse me. You were the one claiming a physics degree and the ability
>to do the calculations. You were the one claiming there was not enough
>coke.

You can not disagree with me without having first run your own
calculations to establish your position. When do we all see them?
NEver? That is what I knew all along.

Article 45519 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cftnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!viper.inow.com!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Followup-To: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.flame
Date: 21 Jun 1996 10:58:31 -0700
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4qc8n8$1r7@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31sg0.stanford.edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Ken McVay OBC <[email protected]> wrote:

>G*wer’s still here? Still posting? (Gotta love that trn KILL file.)

Agreed. I just turned mine on. I intend to login from another account
occasionally to send his service provider copies of clear examples of
net abuse, however. I’ve already sent them a couple.

*name edited for the sake of Jamie’s perl script. I bet we can do
better.