Giwer Matt, 6-1996 – p2

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From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:22 PDT 1996
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
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Subject: Pollard of course
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 00:18:21 GMT
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Subject: Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?

/* Written 2:00 am Jan 17, 1994 by [email protected] in
igc:mideast.levant */
/* ———- “Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?” ———- */
From:
Subject: Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?

This article appeared in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs,
January 1994. The Washinton Report is published monthly since 1982 by
the American Educational Trust (AET), a non-profit foundation in
Washington, DC.

Subscriptions: $19 in the U.S., $30 in Canada, and $55 overseas.
Address: P.O.Box 53062
Washington, DC 20009
Phone: (202) 939-6050
Will Clinton Yield to Pressure and Free American Who Spied
for Israel? By Tim Kennedy

Five years ago, shortly before a federal judge handed
confessed spy Jonathan Jay Pollard a lifetime prison sentence
for selling classified intelligence documents to Israel,
Pollard mad an impassioned plea for mercy. “I broke faith
and took the law into my own hands,” he admitted. “I should
have recognized the infectious nature on an ideology,
Zionism.”

Pollard, who worked as a civilian intelligence analyst
for the Navy, admitted that he was recruited by Israel in
1984 and passed along tens of thousands of pages of
classified documents until Nov. 18, 1985, when he was
arrested while attempting to seek asylum at the Israeli
Embassy in Washington. Israel paid Pollard more than $45,000
in cash for the stolen documents, and promised to deposit at
least $300,000 more in a Swiss bank account.

“It is likely he will never see the light of day again,”
Pollard’s prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Joseph diGenova said
after Pollard’s sentencing in March 1987. According to court
records, Pollard’s spy activities compromised a record number
of classified documents, and provided his Israeli handlers
with descriptions of covert intelligence programs, the
identities of undercover Mideast agents, and technical
assessments of radar and other military electronic equipment
used by Israel’s Arab neighbors.

In a court affidavit, then-Secretary of Defense Caspar
Weinberger said: “[It is] difficult for me to conceive of a
greater harm to national security than that caused by Pollard
in view of the breadth, the critical importance to the U.S.,
and the high sensitivity of the information he sold to
Israel.”

During a November visit to the White House, Israeli
Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin–who became his country’s
defense minister shortly after Pollard was recruited as a
spy–asked President Bill Clinton to commute Pollard’s life
term and release him from prison.

When a White House reporter asked Clinton and Rabin to
comment on the Pollard release proposal, the president said:
“We discussed it and I explained that, under our procedures
here, I cannot make a decision on the Pollard case until the
Justice Department makes a recommendation to me.” Clinton
added, however, that “Under the terms of the United States
constitution, I do not have to follow the recommendation of
the Justice Department…”

The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Washington, which
prosecuted the original case, has already told the head of
the Justice Department, Attorney General Janet Reno, that it
opposes early release for Pollard. “We have stated our
strong opposition to the possibility of Jonathan Pollard
having his sentence commuted,” a source at the U.S.
Attorney’s office, speaking on condition of anonymity, told
the Washington Report. “This is based on the strong damage
that Pollard’s activities inflicted on the United States.”

Law enforcement and intelligence community officials
worry that Pollard, once out of jail will reveal additional
U.S. military secrets, the source said. There also is worry
among the officials in the American intelligence community
that the secret information collected by Israeli intelligence
“has been severely compromised by agents from the former
Soviet republics and, possibly, other foreign powers.”

“When all these considerations are taken together,” says
the government source, “Pollard’s release could cause
continued damage to American intelligence assets.” Insiders
at various intelligence agencies predict, however, that
Clinton will ignore the advice of the country’s top law
enforcement officials, and will commute Pollard’s sentence.
“Pollard will be released before the end of the year,” a
Mideast expert at the Defense Intelligence Agency predicted
flatly. Asked why Clinton would make such a decision, the
DIA official says, “Because it’s a new American
administration, and it’s a new Israeli government.”
The DIA official said he was disappointed with the
situation, and added, “The Likud government never officially
asked for [Pollard’s] release. This one [the Rabin
government] has.”
George A. Carver, Jr., a former senior intelligence
officer who is now a fellow with the Washington-based Center
for Strategic and International Studies, does not conceal his
anger at the possibility of Pollard’s release: “Pollard is
precisely where he deserves to be … in prison,” Carver told
the Washington Report. “I can’t see any reason to let him
out. When a person commits espionage for a foreign power,
it’s still espionage, whether it’s for Israel or anybody
else.”

A ZIONIST HERO

To many Israelis and Jewish Americans, Pollard is a
Zionist hero who has been sold short by Israeli politicians
and his former intelligence officers. Various pro-Israel
groups in the U.S. and abroad have lobbied for Pollard’s
release and routinely run full-page ads in major U.S.
newspapers. These groups have also raised millions of
dollars to cover Pollard’s legal expenses. The fund-raising
effort is being led by the Israeli Public Committee for the
Release of Jonathan Pollard.
The Israeli government is banking Pollard’s $5,000
monthly salary, according to CNN correspondent Wolf Blitzer.
The cash is to serve as a “little nest egg,” should Pollard
ever be released from prison and move to Israel.
The $5,000 monthly stipend, Blitzer wrote in his book,
Territory of Lies, is twice what the former counter-
intelligence analyst was paid each month by the U.S. Navy.
Blitzer says there is a “tradition in the Israeli
intelligence community” that captured espionage agents have
their former salaries doubled and set aside for them.
Soon after it was established, the Israeli Public
Committee began urging Israel to formally demand Pollard’s
release. In 1991, the committee’s spokesman, Amnon Dror,
learned that Israel reportedly holds several U.S.-backed
spies. Dror has since aggressively urged the Israeli
government to “swap” Pollard for one of these imprisoned
agents.
Officially, the U.S. government denies that Israel is
holding any American spies. However, Yitzhak Rabin told
Israeli journalist Yossi Melman in early 1986 that “Israel
had discovered five American spies in the late 1970s and
early 1980s in sensitive nuclear and industrial facilities.”
Thomas Powers, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times,
writes that the CIA`s “working relationship with Israeli
intelligence [the Mossad] is one of the agency’s oldest and
closest, rivaled only by its ties to the British Secret
Intelligence Service.” What made the relationship between
the CIA and Mossad unique, say intelligence service insiders,
was the tacit mutual understanding that the two countries
would not spy on each other.
According to CIA lore, of which there is plenty on this
subject, the Agency’s fabled counterespionage chief, James
Jesus Angleton, considered Israel part of his ~secret
fiefdom,” and reportedly had close friendships with many
Israeli leaders, including former Israeli intelligence agent
and longtime Jerusalem mayor Teddy Kollek.
The CIA’s cozy relationship with Israel turned sour in
1982, sources say, shortly after Israel’s invasion of
Lebanon. According to a speech delivered in early 1987 by
former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman David F.
Durenberger (R-MN), the CIA’s then-director, William J.
Casey, “changed the rules of the game” by authorizing the
recruitment of an Israeli military officer, who, unhappy with
the invasion, offered the CIA classified information about
the U.S. government.
Israeli spying activities in the United States were siad
to have been ongoing for “years” when John Davitt, former
head of the U.S. Justice Department’s internal security
division, was interviewed by The Washington Post.
Retired since 1980, Davitt was responsible for reviewing
all espionage cases pending at the Justice Department. He
said Israeli intelligence services were “more active than
anyone by the KGB [former Soviet intelligence service] …
They were targeted on the United States about half the time,
and on Arab countries about half the time.”
Pulitzer Prize-winning author Seymour M. Hersh writes in
The Sampson Option that Pollard gave Israel top-secret U.S.
intelligence on the Soviet Union, and former Isreli Prime
Minister Yitzhak Shamir approved passing on some of the most
important of that information to the Soviets.
Hersh’s book, a well-documented account of the
development of Israel’s nuclear weapons program, insists
Pollard was recruited by Mossad in 1981–three years earlier
than the U.S. espionage charges against him alleged. Hersh
claims Israel has a portion of its nuclear arsenal targeted
on the former Soviet Union, and that Pollard was recruited by
the Mossad to gain sensitive targeting data for these Israeli
nuclear weapons.
“The nuclear targeting data supplied by Pollard included
top-secret intelligence on the location of Soviet military
targets,” Hersh writes. “Some of the most important Pollard
documents were retyped and sanitized by Israeli intelligence
officials and then made available to the Soviet Union as a
gesture of goodwill, at the specific instructions of Yitzhak
Shamir.”
According to George Carver’s assessment of the documents
stolen by Pollard, “sanitization” would be difficult. “[The
documents were in] such detail,” said Carver in 1985, “that a
professional analyst could discern what U.S. collection
systems must have been used to acquire these data, the
capabilities and limitations of those systems, and even, in
some cases, likely identities of human agents.”
Confirmation of the concerns expressed by Hersh and U.S.
law enforcement officials regarding infiltration of Israeli
intelligence by foreign powers can be found by a careful
reading of the Israeli press. Over the past six months, four
spy scandals have occurred in Israel involving secret “moles”
who infiltrated the Israeli government to supply the ex-
Soviet Union with “political and military intelligence.”
Reuters reports that “two more spy cases would be revealed
shortly.”
The most highly placed of these espionage agents is
Shimon Levinson, the former head of security in the prime
minister’s office. Levinson, who was once a colonel in the
Israeli intelligence service, has been sentenced to prison
for 12 years for spying on behalf of the KGB.
_____________________________________________________________
Tim Kennedy, an analyst based in Washington, DC, writes about
defense technology and foreign affairs.

=====

The Electronic Telegraph Wednesday 27 March 1996 World News

By Hugh Davies in Washington

AMERICA is resisting renewed pressure from Jerusalem to release Jonathan
Pollard, a United States naval intelligence officer who spied for Israel.

Pollard, 43, passed some of America’s most sensitive military secrets to
Israel in the early Eighties to help Jerusalem to combat terrorism and
threats from Iraq.

He is eligible for parole from a prison at Butner, North Carolina, where he
has spent most of the last decade.

Senior national security officials strongly oppose his release before the
statutory date of 2015. the White House chief-of-staff, Leon Panetta, said
there was no chance of clemency “at this time”.

However, a powerful effort is under way to free him, from the Israeli
government and prominent American Jewish organisations.

Pollard’s supporters contend that he delivered information as a matter of
conscience, although he was paid as much as $2,500 (£1,600) a month, plus
$300,000 paid into a Swiss bank account.

The Israeli consul in Atlanta, Eitan Surkis-Almog, has visited Pollard in
his cell, but the spy is said to have cut short the meeting, demanding a
visit from the Israeli ambassador to Washington, Itamar Rabinovich.

Pollard is said to have told the consul: “The Americans will never deal
seriously with my case if the Israeli government does not do so.”

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:23 PDT 1996
Article: 72482 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:20:27 GMT
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On 7 Oct 1996 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 6 Oct 1996 03:51:30 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>> >> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:

>> >> When you’ve finished slogging through the man’s cheap shots, insanity,
>> >> spamming, ridicule, hatred, bizarre hypocrisy, trolling, Jew-bashing,
>> >> and insult after insult after insult after insult after disgusting
>> >> insult — nonsense which has continued for almost nine months — then
>> >> perhaps you’ll understand that intemperate language is quite normal in
>> >> this instance. Matt Giwer would try the patience of a saint, and we
>> >> don’t claim to be saints.
>
>> > Please note as well, his activities off the newsgroup. After sending me
>> >abusive e-mail Giwer was asked to stop. His reply was the single line “I am tired
>> >of your shit. Fuck off.” To emphasize his disregard of the rights of other he
>> >followed that communication with an e-mail of his anti-Semitic rants. Giwer’
>> >account at Netcom was suspended for this (among other reasons).
>>
>> > Sorry. To call Giwer pond scum is an insult to pond scum.
>>
>> Let us keep this straight, you are in violation of your oath as an officer
>> of the court or you are lying.

> What oath, criminal. Please tell me all about it.

The one you took, jew.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:24 PDT 1996
Article: 72497 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Fat Broads of Belsen
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:16:58 GMT
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And this one is just for little Danny Keren

In her book $I Was A Doctor In Auschwitz$, Gisella Perl, who ar-
rived at Belsen on March 7, 1945, reported open prostitution in
the camp: “there were some who sold their bodies for cigarettes,
chocolate and other small comforts.” According to her account,
liaisons between servicemen and female inmates were very common,
though one should not of course judge people harshly for acting
so in such terrible times. The one thing that can be said in Mrs
Turgel’s favour is that she rose far above this sort of thing and
remained happily married for over forty years.

Notice, oh CS major, that as late as March 7, 1945 they are prostituting
for the “small comforts” and not for food.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:24 PDT 1996
Article: 72498 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:21:43 GMT
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:21:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>> How many times do we have to tell this individual that he owns the
>>> burden of his own doubts? If an historian has a doubt he researches
>>> his doubt until it is satisfied using proper historical methods. Most
>>> good and well trained historians do not walk up to their colleagues
>>> and proclaim that accepted history is false and that they should prove
>>> it. What they will do is throw the works of history already done on
>>> the subject and tell him to do his own work. Blackmore/Belling or
>>> whoever doesn’t seem to be able to grasp this concept.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>No. You do not set the framework for who needs to prove what to whom.

>The rules of debate do. The rules of historical research do.

>>You are the prosecutors.

>I’m not. I simply look at the historical record. History is full of
>problematic areas that people have trouble dealing with. A small
>minority of dolts have trouble with the Jewish Holocaust for what
>seems to be only hate. I can’t think of any other reason.

>No one denies the the Salem trials and other American Puritan
>witch-hunts.

Sakem was the only one.

>No one denies various massacres of native Americans that were also
>based on hate.

Only those who know nothing about the subject fail to deny it.

>No one denies that Black’s were slaves.

>No one denies that John Brown was hung.

>No one denies the horrors of the post war world.

>No one denies the Russian Revolution.

>No one denies the American Revolution.

>No one denies the inquisition.

>No one seems to be denying the murder of gypsies, Russian POWs,
>homosexuals, the genetically ill, the retarded, and other none Jewish
>victims of the Nazis. What is so telling is the scope of the denial
>that is presented by the distortionists. This seems to zero in on the
>Jewish aspect of the Holocaust. This really topples the credibility of
>the deniers.

What is interesting is that we can’t even get passed the Jews to get around
to discussing the six million footnote.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:25 PDT 1996
Article: 72501 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:30:25 GMT
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:26:04 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>> m
>> I beleive it is you who are swept
>>> away with the plethora of data and information that makes up the truth
>>> of history in these two cases.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>Nice try, but it doesn’t fly. Nizkor states that Jewish people and others were
>>gassed at Dachau.

>URL? BTW, Nizkor is a group of volunteers and amateur historians. I
>think you need to focus on what you really have to deal with here and
>that isn’t Nizkor, but rather with the works of degreed historians and
>other qualified researchers on the holocaust.

And which of the two are you referring to?

To which EXACT verison of the contradictory and impossible versions are you
specifically referring to?

Specificity is required as there are too many versions. If one version is
dispatched some holohugger will bring up another version and swear by it.
Just like that idiot McVay and his people hearing laughter and seeing faces
of pilots from inside closed trucks.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:26 PDT 1996
Article: 72504 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:11:24 GMT
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:09:02 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>>
>> >John Morris ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>
>> >: It is rather telling that our great Holocaust researcher, rblackmore,
>> >: fails to recognize that Moran’s account does not match the standard
>> >: narrative history. For instance, no one but Moran has claimed that
>> >: gassing at Auschwitz was stopped four or five months before the camp
>> >: was captured by the Soviets.
>>
>> >I missed the beginning of this thread. Is the difference between moran’s
>> >claim and the truth significant, or is it just another example of his
>> >sloppy “research” methods?
>>
>> I was a little sloppy, too. Moran actually said that “it is said” that
>> gassing stopped at Auschwitz-Birkenau four or five months before the
>> Soviets captured the camp. I think he was trying to suggest that the
>> Soviets have been credited with an unrealistic prescience by
>> destroying evidence (the Kremas) so long before the Soviets occupued
>> the camp.
>>
>> The SS, however, began dismantling the Kremas after the gassing
>> stopped in November 1944, two months before the Soviets arrived.
>>
>> I dunno. Is a difference of two or three months vs two months
>> significant? Given the rate of the Soviet advance, allowing only two
>> months to remove capital assets from Birkenau was almost cutting
>> things too fine, since the Kremas were dynamited only days before the
>> Soviets arrived.
>>

>The “difference,” I think, has more to do with the German Army than with
>the plans of the SS to erase the evidence of genocide at Birkenau. Hitler,
>after being warned by Guderian in early January that the German forces on
>the Eastern front were overextended and needed to be reinforced and
>consolidated, failed to appreciate the precarioius position the German
>Army was in -and the dire threat a new offensive by the Red Army would
>pose.

>The result of Hitler’s egotism was that when the Red Army launched its
>January 12, 1944, offensive the German positions on the Eastern Front
>promptly collapsed, sending the German forces into a pell-mell retreat.
>This, of course, immediately- and unexpectedly -exposed the entire
>Auchwitz region to capture by the Red Army. The result was that all the
>plans and execution of the methodical erasure of the killings
>installations at Birkenau went right out the window around January 14,
>1944, as it became quite evident that the German lines would not hold.
>Thus, it was decided that the Auschwitz complex would be hastily abandoned
>on January 17, 1944, and was indeed evacuated starting the next day.

>In the panic of the evacuation, and almost as an afterthought, Kremas II,
>III, V, were dyanmited and the 30 storerooms in Kanada, holding plunder
>from the murdered victims, were torched.

Amazing. All of this suprise and the resultant panic were the reason the
Frank and Wiesel families were evacuated months before.

Do you ever look for consistancy in the things you believe?

The more I see you folks post, the less surprised I am that this holocaust
crap is still around.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:27 PDT 1996
Article: 72507 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is there no revisionist version of Nizkor?
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:14:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 7 Oct 1996 18:12:05 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> There is the ever present holohugger fantasy that s aimple response is
>>a refutation. And then a presumption that a refutation is a negation.

> You mean simple responses like the ones at these URLs?:
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/leuchter.faq1
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/leuchter.faq2
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/shallit.report
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/merck

> I think you will fin========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

You will recall from last time we had 2000 tons of bone
fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement of
5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I used
5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size
adult, the urn should have a capacity of at least 205 cubic
inches. Beyond that requirement, any shape, size and design is
acceptable and the only limitations is your imagination.

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to
fine at Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz.
This latter is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it
would cover three acres about one foot deep. However there a
convenient river there that has never been probed.

So back to Treblinka. There we have a 45 foot cube. Thus we
have enough to cover the five acres at Trblinka to a depth of 3.5
inches with bone fragments. But of course they were buried so at
some point coring would find a 3.5 inch thick layer of bone
fragments.

But of course folks like Keren keep muttering about 27 foot
deep core fragments. So let me address that for our applied
mathematician. The false assumption is that 27 feet means
anything. He assumes that 27 feet means distributed over the 27
foot core. The fallacy of that assumption is that a 1000 foot
core would not imply a 1000 distribution.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:28 PDT 1996
Article: 72508 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: Giwer… drunk yet again…. Re: Rev Bobbie Sch*ber
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:14:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:72508 alt.christnet:112495

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:42:59 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On the other hand, you are a lying bitch. YOU made a claim about your son.
>> I pointed out only that your claim was impossible. I did not attack your
>> son, I attacked you as a liar about your son.

>The insult dishonors only its author.

Is that supposed to be profound or just the best you can do?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:29 PDT 1996
Article: 72509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:46:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:41:11 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such
># things but I am certain dickless Jews have given what the did
># find a proper Jewish burial and even prayed over horse hair
># as being jewish horses.

>The hair is there in Auschwitz. You have posted yourself that
>large amounts of it were found. Now you’re denying it?

I posted no such thing. I simply point out that there has never been
anything found made of pure jewess hair.

>Get a grip… I guess “get a job” is asking way too much.

Why do you think working for someone else is such an impressive
accomplishment? And the answer for you is that your feelings of self worth
are contingent upon others opinions of you. That is why you can not
deviate from holohuggery.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:29 PDT 1996
Article: 72517 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:56:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:05:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># I have posted the overall picture of Birkenau which included IV
># and V and they are as close to the barracks as the barracks are
># to each other.

>What is their location with regard to the SS HQ in Birkenau?

>What is the location of the so-called “bunkers”?

You tell me why you are asking the questions, jew traitor.

># There are no trees any where in sight.

>You must be blind.

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg

>These are not trees?

That is your captioning. I am posting the real pictures.

># Grow up and get a life beyond the holocaust.

>Please get a job and become a productive member of society, instead
>of a leech.

You self worth is totally enwrapped in what someone else will pay you.
That is pitiful.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:30 PDT 1996
Article: 72521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:51:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:14:22 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>: [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>:
>: >A small rug, or doormat, made of human hair, was found and
>: >is now in Yad-Vashem. But more than that: huge amounts of
>: >human hair were found in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they are
>: >still there.
>:
>: A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such things

>Visit Yad Vashem.

Been there. Done that. Not impressed in the least.

>See Swiebocka: _Auschwitz: A History in Photographs_, 1993, p. 211.

Scan it in and post it.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:31 PDT 1996
Article: 72524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:06:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 237
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:03 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

Lets start this off right. They were not in trains. They were in a truck
convoy. The words from the Nizkor approved post are

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Wagon train is a poor translation for truck convoy.

>[email protected] (Fergus McClelland) writes:

># For example, as you pretend not to know, may I refer you to the
># repeated posting of Ada Lichtmann’s testimony at the Demjanjuk trial.
># In her testimony, she speaks of the sound of the laughter of fighter
># pilots who were machine-gunning the boarded up train cattle car in
># which she was travelling, amongst other things. I would venture to
># suggest that it would not be possible for her to hear their laughter,
># nor even see their faces. To expand, (as you seem to be in naive and
># stupid mode at present).
># 1. The sound of a fighter plane engine is rather louder than that
># of a person laughing.

>The sound of a strong engine is loud indeed. However, sit in
>a car with a strong engine, rev it up, and scream. Will someone
>standing by hear you scream?

Keren, you silly shit. You sit inside of a closed truck (it is in the
Nizkor certified true post) and you claim you can see the faces and hear
the laughter of the pilots of fighter planes passing overhead at a minimum
of 100 mile per hour and a minimum of 100 feet in the air.

Any rational person knows that it would be a problem hearing laughter from
a hundred feet away in an open field much less under these conditions.

># 2. The sound of machine guns is louder than human laughter.

>Didn’t she explicitly say that she heard them laugh when they
>were not shooting?

Did you specifically BELIEVE that is possible from insitde the closed truck
under the above conditions or are you just trying to pull someone’s leg?

># 3. The cattle car in which Miss Lichtmann was travelling was boarded
># up, reducing any chance of reception of the higher frequencies of the
># human voice.

>Eh?

Is that Canadian or do you want the sound of the laughter repeated?

># 4. The dying, who were close to the witness, were screaming. This
># would tend to mask the sound of laughter from a pilot who was at least
># 50 or 60 feet away from Miss Lichtmann.

>Has it occurred to you that people can hear and identify many
>sounds at the same time, or during a very short time?

Have you really never been near a single engine plane where you have to
shout to be heard? And at hundred miles an hour? And at that height?

And here was this dumb broad (probably in the Keren family tree) being shot
at and looking out through the slats to see their faces. You folks are
really dumb but I can see where you got it.

># 5. The pilot might have been wearing an oxygen mask – which would
># have further reduced any escaping sound.

>At such a low height, he would have to wear an oxygen mask? What is
>this rubbish?

That is one point.

># 6. The cockpit of the fighter plane would probably have been closed –
># further reducing the escape of the sound of laughter.

>And if the pilot opened it?

Have you ever had a 100 MPH category 2 hurricane force winds hit you in the
face? The noise the wind would make in the cockpit would be lounder than a
shouting human voice. But then you know nothing of turbulent flow. You
are only a CS major.

>What you did was present testimony which may be false. I am not
>sure.

McVay and therefore Nizkor swears to it being true. You know that.

People in such a situation – being shot at – are, possibly,
>not the most accurate witnesses.

You miss the point. The entire idea of Germans firing on their own
equipment and materiel during the war is what is absurd. They would have
been shooting up their own trucks and drivers at the same time.

Do you not realize how stupid that sounds?

Then, you switch to the typical
>”revisionist” rubbish of “since this testimony is false, the
>Holocaust is a hoax”. So, since we have “testimony” about
>Dresden’s bombing which is obviously insane, we can, by the
>same “logic”, decide that the city was never bombed.

You are back to displaying your ignorance of what constitutes physical
evidence.

># Later in the same testimony, we hear of people being taken off the
># train and being forced to dance. Not impossible I grant you, but so
># impractical.

>The Nazis did practice this kind of “fun”. There are some rather
>well-known photos, of German soldiers brutalizing Jews (kicking
>them, cutting their beards).

That is not the subject but rather forcing people to dance naked. Any
other claims you wish to justify as true are up to you to demonstrate, they
are not assumed true simplly because you say them.

># This gives us:
># 60 / 7.9 = 7.594936708 minutes per body.

>But a few corpses (usually 3) were cremated in the same muffle.
>No big problem; this is not standard procedure, out of obvious
>reasons (respect for the dead, the need to collect the ashes of
>each separate corpse), but these were not factors in Birkneau.
>Moreover, there was a high percentage of children and infants
>among the victims, and their corpses occupy much less space.

Hey, silly shit. You have been directed to the website and what it says
has been pointed out to you many times. Three bodies takes three times
longer to burn. You know that. We all know that.

>These figures are supported by Nazi documents.

“Documents” do not change reality. It does not matter what they say. It
can not happen. BUT NONE claim 7.6 minutes per body even in the wildest
imagination of the forger.

>But perhaps the best refutation of this particular piece of
>”revisionist” rubbish is the fact that the Germans burned numerous
>corpses of people who died in Dresden, in rather the same
>method they burned corpses in some of the camps. I have
>posted to Nizkor’s site a photo of corpses being burned
>in that manner; one has to assume that, next, “revisionists”
>will claim that Jews and “Aryans” don’t burn in the same way?

Obviously they do not as Jews can be burned by a special method without
fuel. Obviously Jews are not only different but not of this world as they
burn differently and the bodies of their infants can be torn apart by a
man’s bare hands.

From the stories Nizkor is certitying as true, it is clear Jews are not of
this earth.

># Really Mr Keren, this is getting laughable. I refer you to the amount
># of ash, 6 or 7 pound weight per body, disposed of in Treblinka, a
># small site. If there were 1000,000 people cremated there, whether in
># pits or ovens, then there would have to be at least 6000,000 pounds of
># ash. That is a lot of volume of ash to be disposed of.

>Rubbish, plain and simple. In terms of volume, relative to the
>volume of earth in which the ashes were discarded, it’s tiny.

>You obviously cannot handle basic arithmetic. Reminds me of
>another “leading revisionist” in this group.

Really? A small volume? You do recall this do you not? 5200 cubic yards
is “small”?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

You will recall from last time we had 2000 tons of bone
fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement of
5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I used
5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size
adult, the urn should have a capacity of at least 205 cubic
inches. Beyond that requirement, any shape, size and design is
acceptable and the only limitations is your imagination.

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to
fine at Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz.
This latter is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it
would cover three acres about one foot deep. However there a
convenient river there that has never been probed.

So back to Treblinka. There we have a 45 foot cube. Thus we
have enough to cover the five acres at Trblinka to a depth of 3.5
inches with bone fragments. But of course they were buried so at
some point coring would find a 3.5 inch thick layer of bone
fragments.

But of course folks like Keren keep muttering about 27 foot
deep core fragments. So let me address that for our applied
mathematician. The false assumption is that 27 feet means
anything. He assumes that 27 feet means distributed over the 27
foot core. The fallacy of that assumption is that a 1000 foot
core would not imply a 1000 distribution.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

>Moreover, ashes and human remains *were* found, mixed with earth,
>up to a depth of 7.5 meters in Treblinka.

Along with finding hair and flesh after decades in the ground which is why
the story is clearly false.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 72527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Silly shit giwer, why?
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:21:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Oct 1996 11:47:34 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>[An ignorant sot said “You silly shit.”]

>> Oh look, a new Giwerism!!

>Not really – Mr. Giwer’s fascination with fecal matter is

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

You will recall from last time we had 2000 tons of bone
fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement of
5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I used
5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size
adult, the urn should have a capacity of at least 205 cubic
inches. Beyond that requirement, any shape, size and design is
acceptable and the only limitations is your imagination.

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to
fine at Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz.
This latter is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it
would cover three acres about one foot deep. However there a
convenient river there that has never been probed.

So back to Treblinka. There we have a 45 foot cube. Thus we
have enough to cover the five acres at Trblinka to a depth of 3.5
inches with bone fragments. But of course they were buried so at
some point coring would find a 3.5 inch thick layer of bone
fragments.

But of course folks like Keren keep muttering about 27 foot
deep core fragments. So let me address that for our applied
mathematician. The false assumption is that 27 feet means
anything. He assumes that 27 feet means distributed over the 27
foot core. The fallacy of that assumption is that a 1000 foot
core would not imply a 1000 distribution.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 72529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: let us review the sucker bait
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:41:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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For two days I post that the character assassination tactics of the
holohuggers are from the Protocols. After the first day, I start getting
demands that I post from the Protocols to prove it. On the second day, I
post words not from the Protocols that support the original claim and all
the questioning stops.

Why is that?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:33 PDT 1996
Article: 72530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Twelve Year Grace Period / revised
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:39:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 7 Oct 1996 21:45:21 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> No need to listen to a dickless oath violater such as yourself.

> Matt, are you going to sue Nizkor for copyright violation?

Not at the moment. For now I will simply continue to object and point it
out to those who I find carrying a link to Nizkor. And let them know just
what kind of organization they are supporting with the link.

On the other hand, after Nizkor has answered the libel suit from another
case soon to be filed, I have been offered all the help I want and all the
discovery from that case. That will give me a better determination as to
what Nizkor is worth and if worth the suit.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 72531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SciFi Channel Sightings
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:42:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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In the next episode there will be the ultimate eyewintess testimony to the
holocuast.

In his last life he was a Dutch Jew murdered by the Nazis.

Watch and believe.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:35 PDT 1996
Article: 72543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:50:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 7 Oct 1996 15:18:10 -0700, Don’t Read wrote:

>In [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>> Moreover, ashes and human remains *were* found, mixed with earth,
>> up to a depth of 7.5 meters in Treblinka.

>Ashes can be good fertilizer, ask any small farmer.

>With the efficiency drive as part of the Holocaust, it’d be wasteful
>to discard the ashes, if I’m not mistaken.

Except that cremation does not produce ashes but burned bones which are
then crushed into fragments of some size for the urn. There is an internet
cremation society. Search for it and read for yourself.

The grinding size at Auschwitz was one centimeter by the sieve size.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:36 PDT 1996
Article: 72559 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Self-annointed Jews as atheist jews know
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 05:55:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:11:27 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 07:40:56 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:

>> Every atheist jew knows that jews are self-annointed and self righteous
>>assholes just like the Christian Coalition. They are all worthless and
>>meaningless slime of the earth.

>But you’re not an antisemite, are you, little man?

No more than I am anti-christian or anti-muslim or anti-Buddist. They are
all terminal idiots. There is no crime or approbrium to any of the above.

But even more idiotic than the idiots are those who abjure the religious
belief in Jewish by matrilineal descent and claim being jewish by
matrilineal descent.

Those are the ones the drooling idiots are able to pity.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:37 PDT 1996
Article: 72561 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE MANY-FACED ILYA EHRENBURG
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:00:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 96 06:54:52 GMT, [email protected]baron.demon.co.uk (Alexander
Baron) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] “Judith Toth” writes:

>>
>> >You’re missing the point. Practically no one here is interested in
>> >defending the Soviet Union, or Stalin, or even Ilya Ehrenburg if he did
>> >write the anti-German tracts which have been posted. Deniers often try
>> >to imply that to expose Nazi atrocities is to defend Soviet atrocities,
>> >but this is a twisted logic peculiar to deniers.

>No one here, maybe, obviously though you haven’t made a study of the make
>up of the “anti-fascist” movement, which in Britain, the US and France at
>least is dominated by the hard left.

And that objection is politically motivated as the left, in the US at
least, is primarily fascist in that it passes laws to force private
enterprise to promote politicla agendas. It also holds that everyone has
the bill of rights as a protection unless the person is an employer; making
employers second class citizens without any protections from the bill of
rights.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:37 PDT 1996
Article: 72564 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:17:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:08:18 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>> Lets just consider basical facts: if you put together 500 persons in a
>> 200 meter square room, you may expect a fantastic temperature increase,
>> such a number of people in a small room produce a lot of heat. Miloslav
>> Bilik have already done the calculus a while ago, it was about an increase
>> of 5 degrees each 20 seconds untill heat lost from the roof become too
>> much important. All those people during 20-30 minutes perspire a lot. A a
>> temperature of 35 or 40 celcius (more than 100 faranheit) especially when
>> they see people dying, they try to escape, their heart beat at an incredible
>> rate. Have you ever perspire in a sauna?

>It’s kind from your part, but my opinion was exactly in the opposite
>way. I agree obviously that a huge heating was to expect from the
>victims (in 525m^3 for 500 victims). I made this estimation to
>estimate the speedness of dissipating of Zyklon. But:

>1/ the walls and corpses were always washed after a gassing, then
>dissolved HCN was brought off the room;

Buzzer!!!!! There is only one eyewitness testimony to washing and the rest
of his testimony is either improbable or impossible. Please stop creating
holohugger myth as you go along.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:38 PDT 1996
Article: 72568 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denial
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:53:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 02:11:50 GMT, [email protected](Brooks W Angela) wrote:

> I’d like to share a story with this group. After reading so many
>delusioned souls who cannot accept the truth about 1033-1945, I feel
>compelled to try and enlighten them. The story is about a man we will
>call “Jack”. Jack died in 1990, after living his entire life as a
>devout Methodist. Jack was middle class and never enjoyed the good
>life. Jack had been adopted in 1936 and late in life decided to
>investigate his family roots. He knew that his mother and father had
>emigrated from England, but his mother had died on the ship and that
>was why he was given up. Upon research, he found that the ship had
>noted only one death, that of a Polish woman – a Jew. Through more
>genealogical work he discovered that his family was originally Prussian
>and Jewish. His family, like many upper class Polish families, was
>integrated with both Jewish and Catholic members. He interviewed some
>of the Catholic members of his family and found out that his parents
>had been fleeing for their lives, in fear of a Nazi takeover of East
>Prussia – namely Danzig. I ask you, what would this man have to gain
>by lying about the facts? He gained no money from Germany, never
>visited Israel and never even entered a synagogue. There have been
>MANY documented cases of adult adoptees discovering their true roots
>both in Poland and abroad. Wake up people!! Not everyone has something
>to gain by this “so-called” fabrication of the Holocaust.

>”Jack’s” granddaughter

His mother died on a ship on the high seas.

What is your point?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:39 PDT 1996
Article: 72571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:03:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:03:51 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected]net (Matt Giwer) writes:

># You even quoted the 80,000. To refresh your memory, it is
># again. Notice where it says 80,000 gassed or BURNED TO DEATH
># in a single night.

>He didn’t say that they were all killed in one night.
>That’s one lie you posted. The other lie you posted is that
>this testimony was given about Belsen, when in fact it was
>given about Auschwitz.

Then post the real testimony dickless jew traitor. Until you do, dickless
jew traitor, what I have posted stands.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:40 PDT 1996
Article: 72572 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Strange jewish attitudes about jews.
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:07:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 6 Oct 1996 13:38:09 GMT, Nele Abels-Ludwig
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[I wrote]
>>>Yawn! Lying again…

>>Gee, and it comes from an Israeli government source. How
>>strange.

>Yawn lying again. Else he would point triumphantly at this
>”Israeli government source” and say “You see, here it is!”.

>But he isn, because there is of course no “Israeli government
>source”.

>What a cheap, cheap lier.

Learn how to do a web search, dumbshit.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72574 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:03:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:42:38 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> How would you know if I made up some answers? But if you insist, try the
>> Salem witch trials. Torture was not employed.

>Since it is to be expected of a self-confessed liar, it is expected that
>you will fabricate a response. You could try, for once, to present a
>verifiable answer instead of your usual rhetoric. By the way, your
>statement about Salem witch trials, while it has NOTHING to do with the
>Holocaust, is still wrong.

Yes, dickless Jew handle, you are lying.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:42 PDT 1996
Article: 72580 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE MANY-FACED ILYA EHRENBURG
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:17:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:29:25 GMT, [email protected] (Judith Toth) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) quoted:
>———————————————————————
>>[email protected] (Judith Toth) who writes:
># You friend dr. Keren IS A first rate skeptical if not downwright
>># DENIER about the atrocities,– rape and bloody murder by the
>># Soviet hordes, — when he asked me for EVIDENCE.
>———————-
>DANIEL KEREN REPLIES: <<< If you people are going to play this game, >play it fair.
>By “revisionist” standards, you have to supply very strong
>physical and documentary evidence for this claim. For instance,
>they demand to see 6 million corpses of Jews as a proof for the
>Holocaust. – If you don’t have the evidence, then, by “revisionist”
>standards, you’re a liar and hatemonger. Do you have it? Yes or no?
>Or do you reject the “method” of “Holocaust revisionism”?
>You can’t have it both ways.
>Danny Keren.>>>
>=====================
>ANSWER TO D. KEREN:
>I see where you are heading with all this: you finally realized that
>you are painting yourself into a corner – even with your comrades help
>you can’t get anywhere – therefore you keep hammering on utter
>nonsense!
> You ask for PHYSICAL EVIDENCE only when it is safe and you know it is
>not possible to give, but when we document something you shove it
>aside and you and your friends reject it as “second,- and third-hand
>info.”
> Your “method of Holo-revisionism” already supplied the world with
>more than enough “EVIDENCE” …. thank you very much. However, there
>are always two sides to every coin and I feel yours has the same
>picture on both sides. You are also sitting in a one way street which
>can be annoying if you treat it to be a two way street. –

>Here are some novelties for your Holocaust-revisionism:
> “In 1937, Dr. Chaim Weizmann, President of World Zionism, said of
>Europe’s six million Jews, ‘They are dust in a cruel world. They must
>meet their fate. Only a branch shall survive. They must accept it.'”
>(Source: PERFIDY by Ben Hecht (p.149), Julian Messner, Inc. New York,
>1961.]

Thank you for another source of the term six million from 1937. It is good
to note again that an impossible number was known before it occurred.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 10:48:29 PDT 1996
Article: 80461 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.israel
Subject: Re: Israel provokes the end of peace
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:34:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:72668 soc.culture.jewish:80461 soc.culture.lebanon:26188 soc.culture.israel:45912

On 1 Oct 96 23:43:22 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Nobody writes:
>> [email protected] (Aaron D. Gross) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>> Israeli provokes the end of peace
>>>> by
>>>> Matt Giwer (c) 1996 <9/26>
>>>> I find no way out of this conclusion. The facts are simple.
>>>>Israel opened a tunnel that has been known for decades and has
>>>>known for decades that Palestinians would not accept it being
>>>>opened.
>>>
>>>Wrong. The Arabs had already said YES to the tunnel under Teddy
>>>Kollek’s mayorship, years ago, in 1988, in return for control of
>>>King Solomon’s Stables. Look it up.
>>
>> I’ll accept that without checking. And eight years passed without opening
>> the tunnel. Time changes circumstances. Islamic leadership in Jerusalem
>> should have been consulted and given a stake in the opening. Fos example,
>> part of the receipts could have been dedicated to the Wafq (or is it Waqf?).
>>

>Sigh …..

>The WAKF (Muslim Religious Council) not only knew about the opening
>of the tunnel, they AGREED to it since in return, they received
>permission to have Muslim prayers in the area of Solomon’s Stables
>(a Jewish area) adjacent to the Temple Mount.

I hate to ask but does that group have a place at the negotiating table? Does
it have any political authority?

To be specific, just what makes that group’s agreement any different from you
agreeing to it?

>All that happened was that a DOOR (one meter wide and 2 meters high)
>was opened from the tunnel (built 2200 years ago and which is located
>640 feet from the nearest Muslim holy place) to near the Via Dolorosa.
>The tunnel is barely a meter wide and only one person at at time can
>pass through. A door was opened for tourists to be able to enter through
>one side and exit through a new second side (instead of having to walk
>back single file to the point of origin).

That was quite enough when the political control of Jerusalem is on the
negotiating table. Of course, Netanyahu appears to be under the impression that
he has the unilateral power to take things off the table. And of course he
would be the first to cry foul were Arafat to take something off the table such
as all jewish settlements in occupied territory.

Either both sides have the power or neither side has the power.

>>>The Palestinians simply wanted an excuse, any excuse, to test their
>>>new Labor-armed army of 30,000 “policemen” (sic). All reports
>>>indicate that the “riots” were tightly coordinated and that the only
>>>person capable of that was Arafat. If Bibi had sneezed at midnight
>>>near the Temple Mount and a Jew had responded “G-d bless you!” too
>>>loudly, THAT would have been taken as sufficient provocation.

>> There is no doubt that tensions have been high. The withdrawls promised have not
>> all been carried out. Why provide the spark.

>Yup, all the YAHUD should slit their throats. After all, that JEWS should
>have any rights ??? 🙂

Of course they have rights as well as obligations to live up to their
agreements.

>> There are two possibilities:
>>
>> 1. Simple insensitivity.

>How about lying and cheating on the part of the WAKF who reneged on their
>deal ? But of COURSE, it ALWAYS has to be that the dirty Jews ™ are
>guilty 🙂

Until to provide some evidence this group you refer to has any standing to make
a deal on behalf of all Palestinians that has no meaning.

>>>Note that the ratio of killed Israelis versus Arabs is higher than in
>>>any of the wars. This Palestinian success will be exploited for
>>>acquiring greater support and materiel from Syria, Iran, Libya, etc.
>>>50 martyrs, to them, will be a huge public relations coup and will
>>>solidly put Arafat back in the graces of those who said he was
>>>kowtowing to Israel.
>>
>> So why was the spark ignited?

>Tell me, Arafat needs an excuse ????

He has kept the peace in areas he controls until this provocation was given.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 17:17:20 PDT 1996
Article: 72733 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:35:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 189.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 05:11:49 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>>>>Well, then it is up to prove to us that these non-existent people existed and were gassed.

>>>Train passenger records and ticket sales. Try reading some of the
>>>transport records.

>> All of those people are accounted for. What are you referring to?

>The records of the railways show that 1.5 million people were
>transferred to Auschwitz. Records of transfers to other camps, to
>subcamps, releases, deaths from disease, and a few escapes account for
>400,000 of those people.

>Please direct me to a source that accounts for the other 1.1 million.

I guess you are going to first have to direct me to the records of these
1.5 million. I asked after such records earlier this year and I was
informed there were no such records.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 17:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72735 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:42:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:38:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>## Our desperate Nazi-apologists claim that they are the only ones
>## who know what happened in the camps, although
>##
>## A) They were not in them during the war.

># Note: Danny Keren claims to be an authority on what happened
># inside and outside of the camps, yet he was never in them.

>No, Nazi-boy. Unlike you, I don’t claim to know better than
>each and every one who was in them.

So you believe all the impossible and contradictory things they report? Of
course you do. And anyone who does not believe the impossible or know
conflicts means all but one is lying, gets treated to a little name calling
>from someone so fixated on the subject that he has been spamming the same
selective quotes for at least four years.

>## B) There is not one single witness who was in them during the
>## war, who supports the Nazi-apologetic version.

># Paul Rassinier was.

>That’s one. Good for you. However, I don’t count Rassinier, as
>he was not in any of the camps in which the large-scale murder
>in gas chambers took place.

Will you accept Nyszli? That is a trick question of course but even YFE
insists he was there.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 18:37:51 PDT 1996
Article: 72740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 19:20:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]tt.net>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>[snip]

>>Don’t worry about the color….it was described by Artur
>>Breitweiser, Chief of Disinfestation at Auschwitz. By the
>>way, he was declared Not Guilty at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trials.
>>Better start runing before the collapsing Holocaust story falls right
>>on your head.

>The collapsing Holocaust story?

>Thank you for finally clarifying that you are in fact a Holocaust
>denier.

It is unclear how observing the collapse of the stories makes one a
“denier.” Which particular story is one considered to be denying? The 4.5
million Auschwitz story for example?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 19:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 72746 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Twelve Year Grace Period / revised
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 00:08:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:34:32 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> > Matt, are you going to sue Nizkor for copyright violation?
>>
>> Not at the moment. For now I will simply continue to object and point it
>> out to those who I find carrying a link to Nizkor. And let them know just
>> what kind of organization they are supporting with the link.

>Your hesitation in suing, when you (erroneously) claim to suffer an
>infringement of copyright is, arguably, tantamount to an implicit consent,
>granting the right to Nizkor to maintain the very articles which you
>allegedly (and wrongly) claim to be a violation of your copyright. But
>then, that is really moot, since no violation of copyright exists, except
>perhaps within your feeble mind.

Another legal genius speaks. I have objected and been refused. They three
of them remain in violation. After I get the disclosure from the other
suit being filed against them it will be easier to determine the most
advantageous course of action.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 19:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72747 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 20:14:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> > : What is the relevance of his birth certificate?
>
>> Let’s first prove he existed before we quote from his book. This “witness”
>> NEVER testified in front of an allied court. No historian from the west
>> ever met him or conducted an interview with him.

> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

Ah, yes, the man of the mauve ZB. Would you buy a used holocaust from a
man like that, dickless?

>> > Perhaps you should produce yours, so we know you exist and are not just a
>> > denier bot.
>
>> I haven’t made criminal accusations against people.

> You most certainly have. As one example you have, falsely, accused
>the investigators of the Malmedy massacre of phsyically torturing German soldiers to
>extract confessions.

You mean you are still holding to your position that they all had their
attorneys present during all questioning?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 20:22:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72751 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 20:36:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> > : What is the relevance of his birth certificate?
>
>> Let’s first prove he existed before we quote from his book. This “witness”
>> NEVER testified in front of an allied court. No historian from the west
>> ever met him or conducted an interview with him.

> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

Mauving right along, would you care to demonstrate that others knew him?
Would you provide his signature under the oath he took in swearing that ZB
is mauve?

And do you realize the Chuckle Fairy claims to have a book that the good
doctor wrote in 1960 which is the source of all these claims that he in
fact gave a deposition?

This book is also the source of the ONLY claim that “red cross vans” were
used to transport people from “selection” to the gas chambers.

This is also the source of the claim that the one room in the LK was filled
with 3000 naked men, women and children — the first co-ed gassing report.

This is also the man who claims the single room in the LK was at least 90
feet long, something only our resident math whiz believes.

Do you never find it interesting that no two people ever describe the same
thing if they go into any detail at all?

One survivor, one holocaust. To each his own.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Red Cross inspections of Auschwitz (was Re: Anne Frank)
From: Chuck Ferree
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:34:52 +0000

Chuck Ferree wrote:

I’ve checked all my books on Auschwitz, and did find references to
“Red Cross” vans in a book written by a Hungarian Jewish doctor who
worked for Mengele and survived. The book was first published in 1960,
translated into English and copyrighted in 1993. I’ll select only
items which may have a bearing on the Red Cross.
The title is: AUSCHWITZ A Doctor’s Eyewitness Account, by Dr. Miklos
Nyiszli

Dr. Mengele, the medical “selector” made a sign. They lined up again
in two groups. The left-hand column included the aged, the crippled,
the feeble and women with children under fourteen. The right-hand
column consisted entirely of able-bodied men and women: those able to
work. In this later group I noticed my wife and fourteen year old
daughter. We no longer had any way of speaking to each other; all we
could do was make signs. Those too sick to walk, the aged and insane,
were loaded into Red Cross vans. (The Dr. worked for Mengele doing
disections and other medical work. This is after a gas chamber is
filled with 3,000 naked men, women and children.) …The doors swung
shut and from without the lights were switched off. At that very
instant the sound of a car was heard: a delux model, furnished by the
International Red Cross. An SS officer and a SDG Deputy Health Officer
stepped from the car. The Deputy Health Officer held four green
sheet-iron canisters. He advanced across the grass, where every thirty
yards short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned
his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of
concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents–a mauve
granulated material–into the opening. (The Dr. writes that within
five minutes everyone was dead). …For every convoy it was the same
story. Red Cross cars brough the gas from the outside. There was never
a stock of it in the crematorium. The precaution was scandalous, but
still more scandalous was the fact that the gas was brought in a car
bearing the insignia of the International Red Cross. (this book
contains a great deal of information about what the doctor did while
in the camp. No mention of official inspections by the International
Red Cross.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 21:34:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:30:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 17:30:11 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> I am saying nothing new. Only now I have so many impossible eyewitness
>>tesimonies to deal with. And all courtesy of the holohuggers.

> Derek

Is this a contribution?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 22:50:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72769 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: God’s Chosen? [from houston.general]
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:04:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2988 alt.revisionism:72769

On 8 Oct 1996 09:37:47 -0700, [email protected] (Rich Graves) wrote:

>In other words, the neo-Nazi organization I work with, the National
>Alliance, loses every argument in every open forum,

You do?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72773 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:29:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Oct 1996 12:29:10 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
>>
>> # 33 years before he testified as an eye witness who saw people
>> # being gassed. But Muench didn’t even bothered himself to build
>> # a coherent story by picking up officials informations before to
>> # testify. He placed the crematoria and the gas chamber building
>> # one or 1 1/2 kilometer on the sout west of Birkenau camouflaged
>> # in a small woods. It can’t be even a misunderstanding with the
>> # 1942 farmhouse:
>>
>> He’s probably referring to Krema IV or V, which were surrounded
>> by trees. Moreover, one of the “bunkers” was used again during
>> the summer of 1944.
>>

> page 315:

> Q- Would you describe briefly where this extermination was carried
> out, particularly the locality?

> A-The extermination plant was located at Birkenau. The crematoria and
> gas chambers were located one to one and a half kilometer South
> west of the Birkenau, camouflaged in a small woods.

> Q-What purpose did the crematoria serve?

> You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4 and 5’ ??
> 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau???? and he confused a small wood with
> a couple of trees???
> One of the farmhouse ‘equiped with crematorias’??? 1,0-1,5 km South
> West of Birkenau???

It often amazes me how far this clown will go in supporting what are so
obviously losing positions. He has to work to come up with this stuff; no
one can be born that dumb.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 72776 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!condor.ic.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 100 to 0, The Jewish Preference for Odds
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:12:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 15:33:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> A pathetic situation. If I, Tom Moran, was ethnocentrically
>fixated on any heritage in my history, I would be ashamed if any
>members of this heritage were engaged in what the Jews get into.

Particularly if if involved a “gas me, don’t shoot me” attitude.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72781 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Three-Bergen Belsen, Brian Harmon, and Me
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:44:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On 8 Oct 1996 07:55:10 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>> It’s true: most of the victims in Belsen camp died from
>> starvation and from typhus. Since no one cared enough to
>> feed them, or to give them water, or to make any effort
>> whatsoever to save them, they died.
>>
>> This is murder just as shooting or gassing someone is murder;
>> it only takes more time and is more painful.
>>
>>
>> -Danny Keren.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>After the British took over the camp they were faced
>with the same problems as Kramer, but have no fear-
>the British are here—and funny thing, in spite of food,
>water, and medicine and quality care 28,000 more died.

And the typhus was so bad the brits burned 60 barracks in an attempt to
control it.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:56 PDT 1996
Article: 72795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 06:29:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 22:25:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> the criminal [email protected] (Matt Giwer) liers again:
>
>> I guess you are going to first have to direct me to the records of these
>> 1.5 million. I asked after such records earlier this year and I was
>> informed there were no such records.

> The criminal Giwer is lying again. He was told where the records could
>be found. He was even told that enlargements of some of them are on display at
>the Houston Holocaust Museum. The criminal was told that the records are not
>complete. He now chooses to lie about what he was told.

A dickless jew manufactures more evidence. You should get a job at the
White House.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:57 PDT 1996
Article: 72797 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reply to Mike Curtis
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:03:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 13:16:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>>
>> Transports do not equal murder. Many German Jews were deported
>> to Riga.

> Where they were murdered.

I presume you have autopsey reports for these, too?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 72803 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:22:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:04:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer)
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## He didn’t say that they were all killed in one night.
>## That’s one lie you posted. The other lie you posted is that
>## this testimony was given about Belsen, when in fact it was
>## given about Auschwitz.

># Then post the real testimony

>It’s in “The Belsen Trial”, testimony of Dr. Bendel. It’s
>easy to find. I’ll type some in later.

In the mean time, the claim for the number gassed OR burned to death stands
regardless of which camp was supposed to be involved and that claim is
idiotic, stupid and a clear and deliberate lie. It is only brain dead
holohuggers who defend such claims.

># dickless jew traitor.

>Grow up, for God’s sake. You’re 51-years-old. At least that’s
>what you said.

Quite old enough to recognize a traitor when I see one.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 72804 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:51:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:05:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Matt Giwer writes:

># Read the information holohuggers fear
># http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

>Web site of Hitler admirer, who wrote (on GEnie) that
>”Hitler was a great man”, and “the best thing that could
>have happened to Germany”

And just what sticks in your craw about there? There are a lot of people
who admire otherwise dispicable creatures. For example many terrorists are
so greatly admired by so many people that they are elected to high office.
Chaim Weitzman and Menachem Begin are examples. Other conscienceless
terrorists have held high appointed office such a Shamir.

># http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

>Web site of an insane person, who believes that the Nazi
>leadership fled the Reich using “secret UFO’s”, and are
>now hiding in the inner earth, which they entered via a
>”hole in the South-Pole”. He even claims to have met some
>of the scientists who built the “UFO’s”…

At the time he was no different that the US military. But you know that.

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers

>Contains both text and images from Zundel’s publications
>about these “UFO’s”.

>Quoted from one of these publications (see saucers.text):

Did Nizkor get permission to use his material? One more reckless disregard
of the law by Nizkor.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 72813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:08:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:36:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Fergus McClelland) writes:

># First, from the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food, who
># transferred me to their Animal Health Disease Control Department.

>Thanks for posting this information. Can you post their address, so
>I can write them?

># The deaths were as follows:
>#
># Cattle 214,900
># Sheep 108,835
># Pigs 118526
># Goats 57
>#
># All the animals were slaughtered and incinerated on the
># farms where they were found and the partially burned remains
># were buried in enormous pits – again, at the same farms.

>How much time did it take to incinerate the dead animals?

>Also, can you make any comment on:

>1) The Jahrling letter to Kammler, and other sources, on the
> cremation power of the Auschwitz-Birkenau furnaces?

>2) How many corpses do you suggest could be cremated in these
> furnaces? They had 52 large cremation furnaces. Assuming,
> say, that each could burn 15 corpses a day – and this is
> most obviously a serious underestimate – we have, per year,
> 15*52*360 = 280,800 corpses.

Why would anyone assume a number than can not be duplicated today?

> Can you offer any rational explanation as to why a “work
> camp”, built to hold a few tens-of-thousands of inmates,
> needed this astounding cremation power?

Can you explain what your absurd assumption has to do with the real
capacity?

Can you explain why you have a toilet that has the capacity to handle at
least fifty people? A stove that can feed at least 100 people a day? A
garbage disposal that can process a half ton of waste a day?

You must be violating the housing laws on number of occupants with
equipment of that capacity.

>3) Re disposing of corpses by burning them on pyres: this was
> done in Dresden, after the mass murder of German civilians
> in that city by British bombers. I have posted a photo, which
> shows a huge pyre of corpses being burned. Are you suggesting
> this worked only in Dresden, and that it would not have worked
> for burning victims in the death camps and in the sites of the
> “Einsatzgruppen” massacres?

The problem of course is that there are no signs of such mass burnings on
any of the aerial photos of any of the places where it was supposed to have
happened. That means, not the slightest sign in any manner or form.
Stories of self proclaimed witnesses are one thing, the lack of
corroborating physical evidence is something else entirely.

But the, the little jew traitor, knows that.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:14:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:38:36 -0400, Chris DeNeve
wrote:

>Why should I believe the holocaust really happened. I have seen no
>conclusive evidence. Just some old guy came to my school and said
>that the fact he had numbers tatooed on his hand was proof.

According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is evidence that
there was no gassing. His very existance, if he claims he is jewish, means
the intent to exterminate Jews was either not there or missed the obvious.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 72834 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer’s Ingorance Expands
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:22:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 19:53:41 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>I wrote:

>>URL? BTW, Nizkor is a group of volunteers and amateur historians. I
>>think you need to focus on what you really have to deal with here and
>>that isn’t Nizkor, but rather with the works of degreed historians and
>>other qualified researchers on the holocaust.

>And Giwer responded.

> “And which of the two are you referring to? ”

>Researchers (plural) or historians (plural) makes up a heck of a lot
>more people than two. People of average intelligence can read the
>English language even if they can’t deal honestly with the historical
>events. I guess you are not one of those, but we know that already.

To which two historians are you referring?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 72838 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Three-Bergen Belsen, Brian Harmon, and Me
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:13:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:23:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

># After the British took over the camp they were faced
># with the same problems as Kramer, but have no fear-
># the British are here—and funny thing, in spite of food,
># water, and medicine and quality care 28,000 more died.

>They died because they were already in a hopeless state,
>after being treated by your great hero, Joseph Kramer. Had
>the Brits arrived a few days later, probably no inmate would
>have survived.

If their state was “hopelss” why did the Brits bother burning 60 barracks
to control the epidemic?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:03 PDT 1996
Article: 72845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:59:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:49:12 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>This so-called FAQ is a total mess! You start out with a litany of
>excuses for why you couldn’t do enough research (working hard and all),
>then you expect us to accept your “reliable sources” and non-cited
>commentary as research? Give us all a very large break, J-F!

>> The present FAQ was written by me in 1996 but Alexander Baron brought a
>> couple of suggestions and corrections and revised the english syntax. It
>> is modified sometimes.
>>
>> CREMATORIA
>>
>> The first section of this FAQ deals with crematoria in Birkenau. The
>> Revisionist claim is usually supported by the affirmations of Ivan Legace,
>> a crematory operator from Calgary who has been subjected to smear attacks
>> from the Holocaust lobby in alt.revisionism. I hadn’t really the time to
>> involve myself on this topic, I’m working 40 hours a week, and I’ve no
>> connection with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which can raise billions of
>> dollars for the construction of Holocaust Museums. However, I never heard
>> about any crematory operator who was produced in a court case by the Ho-
>> locaust lobby to support the claim that 4 bodies can be reduced to ashes
>> in 30 or 45 minutes in a crematory oven.

>Court case? Which court cases have had SOnderkommando as witnesses and
>what did THEY say?

They said things that were then and still are impossible. That it why they
are worthless as witnesses.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:04 PDT 1996
Article: 72846 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Arabs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:18:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:56:39 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Walt Hingerty writes:

># I dont have an agenda. But I am curious about something.
># What is the legal status of Palestinians who are born
># within the borders of Israel.
>#
># Are they considered Israeli citizens?

>Yes; as a matter of fact, about 20 percent of Israel’s
>citizens are not Jews, but Moslems, Christians, and Druze
>(there are some other much smaller minorities, such as
>Karaites, Samaritans, and Bahaisy).

They used to be 80%. What happened? Are they really all in refugee camps?

># Are they allowed to vote

>Of course. There are also non-Jews in the Israeli Parliament
>(“Knesset”). I don’t know the number, though. If you post to
>talk.politics.mideast and/or soc.culture.israel, someone will
>probably tell you how many.

># or serve in the military?

>Most don’t serve in the army, although many Druze and Bedouins do.

They are not permitted to so as you know.

># I have heard that only persons of the Hebrew faith have full civil
># rights in Israel. Is this so?

>No.

Unfortunately, correct in regard to military service and being hired by the
Mossad.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 72847 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Arabs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:19:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 16:45:55 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Walt Hingerty wrote:

>>I dont have an agenda. But I am curious about something. What is the
>>legal status of Palestinians who are born within the borders of Israel.
>>Are they considered Israeli citizens? Are they allowed to vote or serve
>>in the military? What is the status of Arabic Christians or Europaen
>>Christians who are also born and live in Israel? I have heard that only
>>persons of the Hebrew faith have full civil rights in Israel. Is this
>>so? Thanks in advance. walt

>Mr. Hingerty,

>This discussion is really not relevent to alt.revisionism. This
>newsgroup is about the denial of the Holocaust. To answer your question,
>however, Israeli Arabs have the right to vote; there are Arab parties in
>the Knesset (the Israeli Parliament). Do they have full civil rights?
>That may be a harder question. Do African-Americans have full civil
>rights in the USA? According to the law they do, but reality is a
>different story.

You forget yourself.

I determine what is appropriate to a.r.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:06 PDT 1996
Article: 72855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pollard of course
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 00:26:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:42:59 -0400, [email protected] (Sara aka
Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[long, off-topic article snipped]
>
>Mr. Giwer:
>
>Just because you’re a Jew-hater and Pollard is a Jew, does not mean that
>this discussion belongs in alt.revisionism.
>
>It doesn’t.
>
>Please find some other place to deposit your hatred of Israel.

The topic cop is back. Pollard was a spy who was bought by our friends the
Israelies. Our Israeli friends resold some of the information to our
other friends the Soviets. Some of OUR people had fatal accidents because
of what he sold.

Israel fits this conference very well.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:58:33 PDT 1996
Article: 72877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For the enrichment of NIZKOR’s archives!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:26:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:18:16 GMT, [email protected] (Judith Toth) wrote:

>A FREE DONATION FOR THE ENRICHMENT
>OF THE ARCHIVES OF THE NIZKOR PROJECT
>
> According to the politically correct Zionist organizations, “the
>symbolical number of 6 million Jews perished in WW II is a proven
>historical fact” and nobody should even dare to have any doubts or
>questions about it, … indeed Dr. Chaim Weizmann (president of
>Israel in 1948) president of the World Zionist Organization on
>November 25th, 1936 declared the “6 million” number to be symbolic of
>the Jewish destiny. [Source: Chaim Weizmann: Reden und Aufsatze
>1901-1936. jud. Bucherverlag Erwin Lowe, Berlin 1937)

Another discovery of the magic six million number before it became famous.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:39 PDT 1996
Article: 72901 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:30:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 10:48:45 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>tom moran wrote:

>>
>> Background levels taken properly, would be to take samples from a
>>number of places and then compare the readings from the intended
>>sample to the average of these other readings.

>That’s essentially what was done Mr. Moran, although taking an average
>among several different samples rather than an average of the three
>measurements of an individual sample would be incorrect.

“Once or never” fumigated means they can all be in the NEVER category and
thus are meaningless as a baseline for deterioration over time. But you
know that. But you also know that you will pervert the scientific method
to support your precious and nonexistant gas chambers.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:40 PDT 1996
Article: 72906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:34:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 03:55:08 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:08:18 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
>>Bilik) wrote:

>>>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>>>> Lets just consider basical facts: if you put together 500 persons in a
>>>> 200 meter square room, you may expect a fantastic temperature increase,
>>>> such a number of people in a small room produce a lot of heat. Miloslav
>>>> Bilik have already done the calculus a while ago, it was about an increase
>>>> of 5 degrees each 20 seconds untill heat lost from the roof become too
>>>> much important. All those people during 20-30 minutes perspire a lot. A a
>>>> temperature of 35 or 40 celcius (more than 100 faranheit) especially when
>>>> they see people dying, they try to escape, their heart beat at an incredible
>>>> rate. Have you ever perspire in a sauna?

>>>It’s kind from your part, but my opinion was exactly in the opposite
>>>way. I agree obviously that a huge heating was to expect from the
>>>victims (in 525m^3 for 500 victims). I made this estimation to
>>>estimate the speedness of dissipating of Zyklon. But:

>>>1/ the walls and corpses were always washed after a gassing, then
>>>dissolved HCN was brought off the room;

>> Buzzer!!!!! There is only one eyewitness testimony to washing and the rest
>>of his testimony is either improbable or impossible. Please stop creating
>>holohugger myth as you go along.

>Sorry. You can get many testimonies saying where the water was fought
>and used for washing. From the “both” sides witnesses (US and URSS)
>and corroborating.

>Bzzzzz…..

Sorry about your unfortunate attempt at creating a lie but early this year
I was pointing out the need to hose down the entire chamber as well as the
corpses for bodily function reasons (slipping on shit) and no one posted
any claim of any hosing or washing. Nor was I referred to any. Nor has
any such testimony been found on any of the holohuggers sites.

Other than that, nice try, but you rose to the bait admirably.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72914 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SciFi Channel Sightings
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:26:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 10
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On 11 October, don’t miss it. Holocaust witnesses are so scarce they have
to remember it by remembering their previous lifes. He remembers being a
Dutch Jew murdered by the Nazis.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 20:00:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72945 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:28:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]a.us.ibm.net> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:31:47 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Well, as expected the “major” avoided answering any questions which
>would help his credibility. Still a shadowy figure out there some
>place looking for garbage, and by golly this turkey seems to find some
>good garbage.

>Ursus Major wrote:
>>

>>
>> *Chuck Ferree wrote:
>> *
>> *Gotta hand it to the artists. Must work for Disneyland. I’ve tromped
>> *all over this place twice. July 1945, September 1994, a week each
>> *time. The artist has it pretty close, but the entire layout is more
>> *fiction than fact. It’s a good piece of work, but after all, someone
>> *decided to interpret what they percieved from a very poor set of
>> *aerials and practically every site is mis-named.
>> *
>> *Where, I ask Giwer, is the friggin’ 18 hole golf course, which the
>> *Russians and Americans played several times under PGA rules? ( I, a
>> *poor golfer then and still am, shot an 86)

>Don’t accept this satire. There was no golf course at Auschwitz. There
>was a swimming pool,

And a sauna.

which was used by the commandant and his ranking
>friends. There were no heated barracks for inmates,

Then what are those chimneys on their roofs for?

their barracks
>were un-insolated,

You mean the sun didn’t shine on them?

and at the top of each and every barrack, both
>men’s and women’s, it was open. In other words, the top of each
>barrack had about a four foot open space, open for the miserable
>winter cold, rain and snow. No way to keep warm.

Funny that those are not on the pictures of the barracks.

>> *Matt Giwer wrote:
>> *>
>> *> On 8 Oct 1996 15:15:48 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>> *> wrote:
>> *>
>> *> >Ursus Major
>> *
>> *hey ursus corporal, tell me who you really are, your credentials, and
>> *maybe I’ll recruit some real marines to give you a hand. 🙂
>> *chuckles

>Guess you want to keep hiding..huh? Well that says a lot about people.
>Most former marines are proud of their service to their country, and I
>don’t know of a single one out of the many former WW-II Marine
>buddies, who would be chicken-shit and prefer to hide. But here we got
>one, who probably was 4-F or unfit for military service, or sectioned
>eight out, or something which is hidded in his past and he wants to
>keep it that way. Must be a coward too.

Now you were a Marine too? What was their left for Eisenhower to do in
that war?

>> * ([email protected]) wrote:
>>clips

>> No, they’re arial photographs, my SENILE observant.

>Bullshit, there are no aerial photos to look at, only good drawings,
>which mis-label 99% of the camp. Any artist could do that, pal. It’s
>good work, but phoney.

Considered the US pictures were first published by the CIA you are making
quite an allegation. By any chance do you see black helicopters?

Given that the US pictures are some of the same ones carried by Nizkor, you
really should explain to them how they have been taken in by drawings.

Perhaps the easiest solution is for you to get an eye examination.

>> Played golf in ’45 (say, age 25) with Uncle Joe’s troops?

>Hey, man, I had my 21st birthday June 30th. 1945…that would make me
>twenty-one years old. By April 1945, I had 67 combat missions under my
>belt, mostly in P-47 Thunderbolts. I was one day older, than the
>youngest man in my squadron. We were men then, pal. Where were you
>when you celebrated your 21st birthday? Common don’t be shy. Tell us.
>>

> That means our SENILE friend is pushing 80 or lying–or both!
>> Did a walk-around (or pushed around in a wheel-chair?) 50 years later
>> … and mind’s as sharp as a tack!

>You can’t even do math as good as your lying pal, Giwer. I work out
>every day.

But most people do not consider that passing stool should be a workout.

>Fit as a fiddle, can still get into my pinks.

A TV also.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 01:08:06 PDT 1996
Article: 72959 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,mtl.general,qc.general
Subject: Re: QUEBEC LEADER OPPOSES JEWS
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 23:56:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
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References: <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:72959 qc.general:10481

On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:45:41 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Yes, Villeneuve was a former leader of the Quebec FLQ.

>Yes, he has called for a sensible moratorium on immigration into Quebec.
>Many sensible residents outside Quebec, also wish for immigration into
>Canada to be curtailed.

>After all, just last week, both the federal immigration ministry, and the
>Quebec immigration department were BOTH complaining about the illegal
>immigrants from ISRAEL, being ex-Russian JEWS, with their false refugee
>claims!!!In 1995 alone, Quebec had 1,700 illegal JEWS claiming refugee
>status, even though Israel states that they are NOT refugees.

>Of course, Villeneuve and all sensible residents of Quebec do not need
>more criminals, which is what false refugee claimants are.

Just the other day I caught and ITN report that a British court has ordered
people claiming that status in England be put on the dole. It did not name
country of origin.

However, remember that Israel worked quite hard to get other countries to
agree NOT to permit Russian Jew immigration (Germany and the US are two
countries that agreed) so that they would have no significant choice of
countries other than Israel.

And then they claim population pressures to justify West Bank settlements
and put them in harm’s way.

So it is no surprise that Israel would deny Russian Jews can possibly be
refugees. They are very useful to Israel. And being put on the
Palestinian front is something to be a refugee from.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:46 PDT 1996
Article: 72972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:11:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 14:39:10 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>If you believe Giwer has seen Yad-Vashem as he says, I’ll sell you a
>damned good government bridge, Wholesale.

>The hair was at Auschwitz in 1945, and I saw it again in 1994.

>Giwer claims the Nazis shipped all the human hair from Poland to
>Germany to be destroyed. ROTFLMAO

>What a dipstick this Gwier is. Cheap wine does that to a fella.

>Chuck

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:14:22 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >: [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> >:
>> >: >A small rug, or doormat, made of human hair, was found and
>> >: >is now in Yad-Vashem. But more than that: huge amounts of
>> >: >human hair were found in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they are
>> >: >still there.
>> >:
>> >: A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such things

>Prove it, you lying has been, unfit for military service in three
>wars. What the hell do you know? Nada!!!
>Chuckles

I do hope you realize that all of your ranting and your claims about what
you did in the war make it very difficult of anyone other than your own
grandchildren to believe you did anything but get get rich in a factory jub
during the war.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:47 PDT 1996
Article: 72973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DON’T FORGET MCVEY’S A LIAR
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:14:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 19:25:40 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:54:04 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>No. I believe nothing Nazi has any value whatsoever. And I don’t
>>>like Nazi scum, whether they are German, American, or British.
>> I have good news for you. They were disbanded in 1945.

> The original Nazi party has disbanded. There are, however, groups who
>want to revive it. Certainly there are groups that want to whitewash it.
>(e.g. The IHR)

It is unclear how pointing out a minor event in the time period lacks
credible physical evidence has anything to do with whitewashing the Nazi
Party. It is impossible to whitewash avowed marxists as they condemn
themselves by their own words.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:48 PDT 1996
Article: 72977 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:38:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 08:38:54 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>> In message
>> [email protected] writes:
>> :>
>> :>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote to
>> :>Gord McFee:
>> :>
>> :>> By the way, someone told me that you are using a pseudonym-is this true?
>> :>
>> :>HAHAHAHAHAHA!
>> :>
>> :>Pot.Kettle.Black, Mr. Blackmore/Belling/whatever.
>>
>> You know him too Sara. 🙂
>>
>>
>>
>> —
>> Gord McFee
>> I’ll write no line before its time
>>
>>
>>>>>
>This is hilarious. You can’t answer my arguments so you
>yap about what my name is…..keep up the good work…
>a clear admission of impending defeat…..

Have you ever found McFly to post anything substantive?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:48 PDT 1996
Article: 72978 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:53:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:10:52 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Those interested in studying real photos from WW2, may
>look in the Nizkor web pages, among them

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images

As I said, you would recognize them when you see them. Nizkor is a fine
place to start for pictures that contradict the claims of the supposed
witnesses. It is simply a matter of looking at the pictures to determine
that the witnesses were not witnesses.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:49 PDT 1996
Article: 72979 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:12:00 GMT
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:01:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

># You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4
># and 5’ ?? 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau????

>Yes – relative to the SS HQ of Birkenau.

># and he confused a small wood with a couple of trees???

>”A couple of trees”? Look at photos, for God’s sake.

Correct. Take a look. There are a couple of trees. No woods, no forest,
nothing.

And do not forget that 1.5 km away puts it between the 1 and the 2 km
radius rings of guard towers the witnesses reported but which complete
eluded all aerial photography.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:50 PDT 1996
Article: 72980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:26:29 GMT
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On 8 Oct 1996 19:22:53 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Then post the real testimony dickless jew traitor. Until you do,
>>dickless jew traitor, what I have posted stands.

> Why don’t you post the testimony you claim is real? Oh, silly me, I
>forgot, it’s all in your imagination!

> Why are you so intent on calling other men dickless?

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/

>–
>Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson

It is not clear what you think you are accomplishing with the spam. Every
time you do it, I post something as long or longer that ridicules your
precious holocaust. You do nothing but get attacks upon your position
posted.

As you know that happens it would appear that is your intention and why a
holohugger would have that intention is not clear.

On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz

>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors who arrived from
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
> over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.

>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.

>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.

>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.

>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh
as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers
believe this sort of crap.

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of
these wagons, depending upon translation.

And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.

Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the
engine. Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the
faces of pilots from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be
paid for this performance.

>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient
these Nazis.

>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe is heard of those awful days which
>had become from day to day more terrible.

A true whacko so far.

>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they
could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person
is truly psychotic.

>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.

Certainly fingers were just pulled off.

Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?

>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.

But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.

You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.

> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust pains and agony and they started
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.

>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
> to say to the Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the
chant above come from? This witness?

>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”

Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.

>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.

>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.

But she has no way of knowing.

> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.

They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.

Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.

>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.

>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.

Who is it that does not want hearsay?

But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it.
What in the hell does the author think witness means?

The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.

But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.

>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty people as it had been for several
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty people of
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more
interesting that crossexamination was not permitted.

> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.

>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.

Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.

>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?

>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop trees.
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.

> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize
this and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?

>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.

But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.

> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.

Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.

>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of tree leaves and poisonous mushrooms that so burned their
>intestines that they wished to die.

They did not live off of them.

>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.

Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.

=====

http://www.codoh.com/

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:51 PDT 1996
Article: 72986 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:32:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 18:09:08 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Ursus Major ([email protected]) wrote:

>: *> >Uh…Ursus? I hate to disillusion you, but most of the illustrations
>: *> >the guy who created this site claims are most damning are…
>: *>
>: *> >Well, they’re drawings, Bear-boy.
>:
>: No, they’re arial photographs, my SENILE observant.

>Uh-huh. Photographs in bright, primary colors.

>There ARE photographs on the site, but they essentially mean
>nothing, although the author has appended little comments about
>how the people in the pictures don’t look too upset, etc. The
>illustrations showing the rooftop bar, the sauna, the olympic
>pool and so on are drawings.

And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
were originally released by the CIA?

Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72987 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:38:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 11:32:11 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> > [email protected] writes:
>>
>> > > : What is the relevance of his birth certificate?
>>
>> > Let’s first prove he existed before we quote from his book. This “witness”
>> > NEVER testified in front of an allied court. No historian from the west
>> > ever met him or conducted an interview with him.
>>
>> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>> Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

>Gave a deposition to whom? Where did he testify?
>BTW that is not the proof I asked for. Similarly I
>asked for the toxicological test results from the
>alleged gassing victims at Dachau and you refer
>me to someone’s “testimony”.

A point not of interest to holohuggers is that these “depositions” never
name the people to whom they were given nor the oath. What a strange form
of deposition.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 72988 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:37:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:25:25 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Oct 1996 21:20:40 GMT, [email protected] (Ursus Major) wrote:

>>Fire up your Netscape (optimized for that browser, but will work with
>>others) and RUN–do not Walk!–to the following site:
>>
>> http://www.air-photo.com
>>
>>This is better than a can of Raid for dealing with Tarantulas!
>How about, Bloated, besotted, troll toads?? You any good there??

>>What is it? It’s entirely photographic evidence, newly released by the
>>U.S. Government, of fly-overs of Auschwitz, all three portions: the
>>>Stammlager< (main camp), Auschwitz-Birkenau (the supposed site of The >>Holocaust [TM]) and Auschwitz-Molowitz (the industrial center to make
>>gasoline from coal, as the Germans had no access to oil).

>Ah, I tell you bear boy, better you should have looked my closely, my
>understanding is that the industrial section of Auschwitz is known as
>Monowitz. Duh, bear boy down by one, looking for spiders and troll
>toads.

It is amusing that you folks are claiming the pictures are drawings when
they are the same photos carried by Nizkor and first released by the CIA.

You folks certainly lacked coordination on this one.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72990 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:44:13 GMT
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On 9 Oct 1996 17:57:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> In other words the criminal Giwer does not know what he’s talking
>>about. There is no such provision in any oath and, if it did it would be in
>>flat contradiction to the Code of Professional Responsibility.

> But Matt knows nothing of professionalism or, indeed, responsibility.
>;-)

>> That’s what you can expect from a criminal confronted with his
>>criminal activity.

> Especially one as dogmatic, impetuous and petulant as Giwer.

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

The Trial of the Executioner of<br /> Sobibor

The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings

Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski

THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR

Shimon Kanz

      A jury of judges, prosecutors
and defenders who arrived from Germany and headed by the Israeli
judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for 3 days at the court of Tel
Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada Lichtmann who survived
after the revolt and who had refused to go to Germany in order to
testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor. Her
testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the prosecution
over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they
lowered their heads.

      In the eyes of the Jewish
judge, who himself had tasted the camps of Hitler, stood tears
and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

      “Don’t ask me for exact dates”,
said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provoking and torturing questions of
the lawyers. “At that time no calender existed but on the other
hand I remember the events of those days which I am describing
because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory throughout my
life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination, although it is not clear
>from which side the questions are coming.

      The awful depressed the mood
and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horror accompanied the route
>from Krakow from where the Germans had openly exiled her, through
Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the bloody road
to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and humiliations.
Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during the work
in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? How biblical. However this does stand as the only
report of death by stoning to come from the witnesses. It is a
nice touch.

      The strikes and blows of the
SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the “Spalier” (their lines)
before the entrance of the concentration points.

      Already at the beginning of her
simple words the lips whispered automatically: “Is this
possible?” From where did this woman with her delicate face and
blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures? From where
did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

As we find later she was in charge of something at the camp.
Those in charge of something commonly misused their position for
power. Although this person is not named as one of them, it was
common and can be an answer to the question. That answer being,
she was making a victim of herself to avoid her own prosecution.

DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The
evil always laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless
did it too. The bad guys in all the B movies do it. Why should
not these “devils” do it?

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only
holohuggers believe this sort of crap.

      She recalls events of Jews
struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the Jews were loaded on
wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Note in the above translations is poor. “Wagon trains” are not
>from the American Wild West. The term should more correctly be
“truck convoys.”

      Planes flew over the train
shooting with machine guns into the wagons. They lowered the
planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the
trucks themselves. This is rather strange behavior.

We will note later a description of the trucks as being
covered. The more correct translation is likely closed as merely
“covering” a truck bed would permit escapes whereas the doors of
a closed truck could be locked.

So the second thing we notice after the pilots attacking
their own people is that they were low enough to see the faces of
the pilots from inside these closed (or even covered) trucks.
Those of you who have WW II pictures of strafing runs will
remember that the planes have to dive on the target and then pull
up. You will also remember that such planes line up behind their
targets and fire as they close on the targets. These are
essential characteristics of a strafing run.

Next we note that these planes are fighters giving them a
minimum speed of flight on the order of 100 miles per hour. But
since they are diving to for the strafing run they are going
significantly faster. And in noting they have to pull out of the
dive the lowest safe pullout altitude would be about 100 feet at
the lowest point where it would be level to the ground.

Now here we have a claim that the faces were seen from
inside a close truck, at an altitude of at least a hundred feet,
>from an angle where the nose of the plane would block the view,
while passing overhead where the body of the plane would block
the view at a speed of at least 100 miles per hour.

This kind of stuff is too impossible to put even in a B
movie. But this is a story under oath that is supposedly being
believed by experienced attorneys and a judge. Is it any wonder
writers about the holocaust have to ignore or quote only very
selectively from testimony like this?

      And when they stopped the
shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The devilish
laughter deafened the screaming of those dying.

As if seeing the faces were not ridiculous enough, the evil
one’s must laugh, and not just laughter, the devilish laughter
the truly befits the evil.

Thie devilish laughter is heard from pilots at least 100 feet
in the air over the noise of the engine that is driving a plane
at least 100 mph. Not only is it heard from that distance which
is no mean feat in itself but over the engine noise from inside a
closed cockpit with the body of the plane blocking the sound in
addition to the view but it is so loud that it
is heard over the normal truck noises and the
screams of the dying.

And we are supposed to believe the attorneys are believing
this when it is difficult to see how anyone over the age of ten
could take one word of it seriously. It is clearly a complete
fabrication from the bottom up.

If a person perjures herself in one part of her testimony
then all of her testimony is to be rejected.

If she had keep the story simple, saying that planes fired
on the trucks then there would not be enough details to judge the
validity of the story. But in the details the story is exposed
as false. That questions the other parts of the story that are
kept simple, such as the stoning and shooting.

Perhaps this person is simply telling
the story in the eastern european style
but that requires
that western europeans not for one moment to consider any of this
story as literal truth. All that is does is relieve her of the
charge of perjury.

      On the way somewhere near to
Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons and the men and women
were forced to strip off their clothes and to begin dancing. The
voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt.
Very efficient these Nazis.

Here we have a classic feature of witchcraft, naked dancing.
And these people are devils are they not? It fits the mode of a
story about the devil. The devil makes them dance, right out of
Night on Bald Mountain.

This is a feature common to many of these stories, being
forced to strip and dance. Sometimes an orchestra is organized
and the music of someone like Wagner is played. How does one
dance to Wagner? Have you ever tried to tip-toe through the
Niebelungen?

There might be some credibility to the music stories if they
played folks songs or popular music. But if the style of music
is mentioned (a false detail thrown in) it is never music
suitable for dancing. Thus again, if the stories are detailed
enough they make themselves incredible rather than adding
corroborating detail as would be expected.

      Her face reflects her feeling
of tortures and inability to tell all. Her words shiver and only
an echo is heard of those awful days which had become from
day to day more terrible.

Rather if there is anything this woman has suffered it is a
terrifying trip into an alternate reality where things like this
are in fact possible. If what she has described so far was
possible in that reality many even more frightening things must
have been possible.

At best she did not live a nightmare, she dreamed a
nightmare.

      They were kept on the ground
only one day. It was fenced in with barbed wire and again they
were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the slaughter and
brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow took
several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors,
remembers how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons
when they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed
wagons?

      Nevertheless, the journey
lasted for a few days and the German soldiers were amused by
their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the Ukrainians
broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did not
succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the
finger nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their
victims! “Soon you will be broiled and soap will be made from
you.”

Certainly fingers were just pulled off. Tell me the truth.
This was written by Stephen King, right?

The Germans are amused by their victims, what the amusement
might be is unclear as they were inside closed vehicles. But
they were paying so little attention that Ukranians had
snuck into Poland
and were permitted to break in trucks
and take valuables. The valuables that could have gone to the
German guards or taken at Sobibor were taken by “wild” Ukranians.

And during this breakin not one of the prisoners thought to
take the opportunity to escape. Or did the wild Ukranians lock
the doors while they were inside?

      The Polish farmers also waited
in front of the entrance to Sobibor and shouted at the Jews in
the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it will not redeem
you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
You will note later on that escapees had to get out the word that
Polish farmers knew all about.

It was also a secret and not a secret but the wild Ukranians
knew all about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a
chant. One has to wonder just how it was heard from inside the
trucks.

You will note below that no one understood what was being
said later in this same testimony.

THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

      The shouts of the Poles
penetrated into the conscience of those weakened from hunger and
thirst pains and agony and they started screaming and
yelling thus deafening the camp.

This is not a clear statement. It appears to say that the
prisoners started screaming so loud from inside the trucks that
it was at least noticeable over the entire camp. Perhaps more of
the eastern style of storytelling.

      The SS-man Michel who was
called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker” as he received the
arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have much to say to the
Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and gunshots. The
Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland, Belgium,
Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did not
understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the
translation of the chant above come from? This witness? Then
she was Polish and (in the opening to the testimony) that she had
started from Kracow to the east of Sobibor. So just where did
they pick up people from the west and south of Sobibor? Is she
trying to say everyone was shipped to Krakow first for some
reason?

      At their arrival to the camp
they were welcomed with a speech by Michel: “You have to be
disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle of them
and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
clothes here.”

He we have a little more of this getting naked outdoors
stuff.

      Among the transport of 7,000
men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the year 1942 and who went
on the same day to the gas chamber only three women survived
chosen to work in the laundry.

This is clearly a statement from the narrator. If we
presume that it was 7,000 men and women then it makes a bit more
sense.

      With an indication of his
finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her
for profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and
his assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela
Sobol and Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to
the crematorium, but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no
knowledge of what happened to the others after this point in the
story. Except of course aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs
of a crematorium. So it unclear where these people were going
other than the implied showers.

      The Jews believed the Germans
and in astonishing order they packed their belongings and after
an hour not even one was alive, only a few craftsmen were allowed
to survive.

But she has no way of knowing. But only three women survived
for the laundry but some craftsmen survived but they were no
selected before passing through the gate.

SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

      We three organized the laundry
in the camp. Until then the German officers too were dirty and
lice-infected. In the course of time the laundry was enlarged and
women from other transports arriving daily were distributed to
us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in her
narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
can”.

They organized a laundry where none existed before and then
the laundry was expanded. It is unclear just what the expansion
of the laundry was for unless a) the number of Germans increased
or b) the number of inmates increased. Neither increase would
make sense on the assumption this was an extermination camp. (It
was, in fact, a work camp specializing in logging and lumber
production.)

      The tension in the hall
extended also to the memory of the woman. She feels the good eyes
of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a Lieutenant in the
police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while writing
every word going out of her mouth.

      The Germans do not want to hear
about what she knows to tell but what she has seen with her own
eyes.

Who would want to hear more of such an absurd tale? These
are serious people who really have better to do than to suppress
their incredulity.

      But how can she not tell about
the shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not
witness it. What in the hell does the author think witness
means?

      The heartbreaking shouts and
screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day
that they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole
transport.

But Ada Lichtman was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
How did the SS pass up the opportunity to do the same at her
arrival? Again, consider the lack of credibility of this
witness.

      Generally the transports
arrived during the day. Once on a hot summer day a transport
arrived with thirsty people as it had been for several days since
they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some to
go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharführer” Michel
was already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug-up
hole which served as a privy and forced them to smear their body
and face with the excrement. And thus he brought them back to the
thirsty people of the transport. From another transport young men
were forced to beat each other to death. The last one remaining
>from this terrible battle was shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing
that this level of testimony that was introduced in capital
trials. Even more interesting that crossexamination was not
permitted.

But even more interesting are the other aspects that appear
strangely common yet told in different ways. These SS folks for
some reason get some kind of thrill out of seeing people covered
in excrement. They also appear to have picked up a Romanesque
interest in battles to the death.

Where such interests might have come from is unclear, either
for Germans to have them or for Easterners to invent them.

HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

      The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann
and her husband whom she met in Sobibor after the revolt are
horrifying.

      They tell how the semi-alive
victims tried to maintain to the last moment not only their human
faces but also their human soulds. They tell about women who
tried to save their children and were desparately driven to
perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with
their own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell
about the Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately
after his arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found
out about it and they chose 72 men and sent them to the
crematorium.

There is a minor problem with this part of the story.
Aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs of a crematorium. Other
than that … the story is that the gassed were first buried and
later dug up and burned in bonfires, neither of which shows up in
the aerial photos either.

This massacre was supervised by the “Oberscharführer”
Frenzel whose trial is taking place at the present moment.
Returning from the scene of the murder he ordered the quick
erection of a temporary stage out of some planks, called for the
orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and dance.

Here we have another of those dancing, singing, orchestral
moments that punctuate so much of the Holocaust. Perhaps she
forgot to mention that they were naked but at least it has the
civility of constructing a stage.

      This Frenzel once caught a boy
red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered all the Jews from the
barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher? It is unclear just
what was the “crime” of eating sardines. Perhaps it was simply a
more extreme response than was involved in the search for the
missing strawberries.

      Sobibor did not become at once
a concentration of plants and workshops. The camp gradually
expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kinds of workshops.
There work was done only for the German officers and guards.
Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to chop trees.
Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them
and escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all
considered the heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of
doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is
nothing new.

THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

      Sasha Pizurski who was brought
to the camp with a group of prisoners of the Russian army
immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To this
committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had
decided revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to await
the arrival of a Russian to organize this and yet the people
there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?

But the story is now changing to the work camp it really
was.

      In the barracks weapons were
started to appear: axes and knives. How dangerous this was! How
much courage, cunning, patience you had to use in order to
conceal this. Many efforts of the spirit and mind, will and
courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided
into groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details:
Every group and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had
to assault the guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns;
some had to tempt the officers into coming into the workshops;
others had to attack the guards that were wandering about.
Special men had to cut off the telephone and electricity lines
and tear down the barbed wires – to make passage ways.

THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

      The revolt was fixed for
October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death enthusiastically took
their fate into their own hands. Until the prearranged sign was
given every group had performed its tasks well. Nevertheless
things which had not been expected in advance happened. Guns
started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield.
On this day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there
began on the hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent
blood of the SS-men and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had
been so sure of themselves when millions of innocent women and
children were led to death, seemed now anxious and inferior, they
became confused and ran like mice into the trap looking for a
hiding place.

It appears she is saying that men were not gassed. The
story does need a good editor, excuse me, an editor, a good
editor would not touch the job.

      The SS-men and the police
pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes and the Polish
farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.

Now wait a minute. Poland was an occupied country. The SS
did not limit itself to jews. And here we have Poles helping the
SS? It sounds a bit like this person from Kracow has a strong
dislike of Poles in addition to Poles.

Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the
Germans. Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived.
Also Mrs. Ada Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a
Polish woman called Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in
Israel succeeded, with help of some young Poles, in arriving to
the partisans in the woods of Parzew and continued their war
against the German army. But until they reached the forest they
wandered around day and night, living off tree leaves and
poisonous mushrooms that so burned their intestines that they
wished to die.

This is an otherwise unknown symptom of mushroom poisoning.

      They lowered their eyes and one
of them was turning his head from side to side replied: “No, we
did not easily agree to accept such a mission. It was forced upon
us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good thing that you
did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled to come
to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the
Germans flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending
the murderers you emphasize the responsibility of the German
people of what took place?” The two defenders ignoring the
question avoided answering and the question remained unanswered.

It appears there was no presumption of innocense in this
trial.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:55 PDT 1996
Article: 72991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:44:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 809
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Oct 1996 17:52:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Matt should be familiar with the following quote, as it has been
>cited several times:

> “He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.”
> – Matt Giwer

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 7 Oct 1996 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> Let us keep this straight, you are in violation of your oath as an
>>>> officer of the court or you are lying.
>>> What oath, criminal. Please tell me all about it.
>> The one you took, jew.

> Be more specific Matt – vague allegations don’t make anyone’s case
>look good. Cite the text of the oath, specifying the oath and which part(s)
>of it you claim Yale is in violation of. After all:

> “He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.”
> – Matt Giwer

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

The Trial of the Executioner of<br /> Sobibor

The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings

Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski

THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR

Shimon Kanz

      A jury of judges, prosecutors
and defenders who arrived from Germany and headed by the Israeli
judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for 3 days at the court of Tel
Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada Lichtmann who survived
after the revolt and who had refused to go to Germany in order to
testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor. Her
testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the prosecution
over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they
lowered their heads.

      In the eyes of the Jewish
judge, who himself had tasted the camps of Hitler, stood tears
and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

      “Don’t ask me for exact dates”,
said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provoking and torturing questions of
the lawyers. “At that time no calender existed but on the other
hand I remember the events of those days which I am describing
because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory throughout my
life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination, although it is not clear
>from which side the questions are coming.

      The awful depressed the mood
and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horror accompanied the route
>from Krakow from where the Germans had openly exiled her, through
Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the bloody road
to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and humiliations.
Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during the work
in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? How biblical. However this does stand as the only
report of death by stoning to come from the witnesses. It is a
nice touch.

      The strikes and blows of the
SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the “Spalier” (their lines)
before the entrance of the concentration points.

      Already at the beginning of her
simple words the lips whispered automatically: “Is this
possible?” From where did this woman with her delicate face and
blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures? From where
did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

As we find later she was in charge of something at the camp.
Those in charge of something commonly misused their position for
power. Although this person is not named as one of them, it was
common and can be an answer to the question. That answer being,
she was making a victim of herself to avoid her own prosecution.

DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The
evil always laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless
did it too. The bad guys in all the B movies do it. Why should
not these “devils” do it?

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only
holohuggers believe this sort of crap.

      She recalls events of Jews
struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the Jews were loaded on
wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Note in the above translations is poor. “Wagon trains” are not
>from the American Wild West. The term should more correctly be
“truck convoys.”

      Planes flew over the train
shooting with machine guns into the wagons. They lowered the
planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the
trucks themselves. This is rather strange behavior.

We will note later a description of the trucks as being
covered. The more correct translation is likely closed as merely
“covering” a truck bed would permit escapes whereas the doors of
a closed truck could be locked.

So the second thing we notice after the pilots attacking
their own people is that they were low enough to see the faces of
the pilots from inside these closed (or even covered) trucks.
Those of you who have WW II pictures of strafing runs will
remember that the planes have to dive on the target and then pull
up. You will also remember that such planes line up behind their
targets and fire as they close on the targets. These are
essential characteristics of a strafing run.

Next we note that these planes are fighters giving them a
minimum speed of flight on the order of 100 miles per hour. But
since they are diving to for the strafing run they are going
significantly faster. And in noting they have to pull out of the
dive the lowest safe pullout altitude would be about 100 feet at
the lowest point where it would be level to the ground.

Now here we have a claim that the faces were seen from
inside a close truck, at an altitude of at least a hundred feet,
>from an angle where the nose of the plane would block the view,
while passing overhead where the body of the plane would block
the view at a speed of at least 100 miles per hour.

This kind of stuff is too impossible to put even in a B
movie. But this is a story under oath that is supposedly being
believed by experienced attorneys and a judge. Is it any wonder
writers about the holocaust have to ignore or quote only very
selectively from testimony like this?

      And when they stopped the
shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The devilish
laughter deafened the screaming of those dying.

As if seeing the faces were not ridiculous enough, the evil
one’s must laugh, and not just laughter, the devilish laughter
the truly befits the evil.

Thie devilish laughter is heard from pilots at least 100 feet
in the air over the noise of the engine that is driving a plane
at least 100 mph. Not only is it heard from that distance which
is no mean feat in itself but over the engine noise from inside a
closed cockpit with the body of the plane blocking the sound in
addition to the view but it is so loud that it
is heard over the normal truck noises and the
screams of the dying.

And we are supposed to believe the attorneys are believing
this when it is difficult to see how anyone over the age of ten
could take one word of it seriously. It is clearly a complete
fabrication from the bottom up.

If a person perjures herself in one part of her testimony
then all of her testimony is to be rejected.

If she had keep the story simple, saying that planes fired
on the trucks then there would not be enough details to judge the
validity of the story. But in the details the story is exposed
as false. That questions the other parts of the story that are
kept simple, such as the stoning and shooting.

Perhaps this person is simply telling
the story in the eastern european style
but that requires
that western europeans not for one moment to consider any of this
story as literal truth. All that is does is relieve her of the
charge of perjury.

      On the way somewhere near to
Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons and the men and women
were forced to strip off their clothes and to begin dancing. The
voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt.
Very efficient these Nazis.

Here we have a classic feature of witchcraft, naked dancing.
And these people are devils are they not? It fits the mode of a
story about the devil. The devil makes them dance, right out of
Night on Bald Mountain.

This is a feature common to many of these stories, being
forced to strip and dance. Sometimes an orchestra is organized
and the music of someone like Wagner is played. How does one
dance to Wagner? Have you ever tried to tip-toe through the
Niebelungen?

There might be some credibility to the music stories if they
played folks songs or popular music. But if the style of music
is mentioned (a false detail thrown in) it is never music
suitable for dancing. Thus again, if the stories are detailed
enough they make themselves incredible rather than adding
corroborating detail as would be expected.

      Her face reflects her feeling
of tortures and inability to tell all. Her words shiver and only
an echo is heard of those awful days which had become from
day to day more terrible.

Rather if there is anything this woman has suffered it is a
terrifying trip into an alternate reality where things like this
are in fact possible. If what she has described so far was
possible in that reality many even more frightening things must
have been possible.

At best she did not live a nightmare, she dreamed a
nightmare.

      They were kept on the ground
only one day. It was fenced in with barbed wire and again they
were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the slaughter and
brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow took
several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors,
remembers how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons
when they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed
wagons?

      Nevertheless, the journey
lasted for a few days and the German soldiers were amused by
their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the Ukrainians
broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did not
succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the
finger nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their
victims! “Soon you will be broiled and soap will be made from
you.”

Certainly fingers were just pulled off. Tell me the truth.
This was written by Stephen King, right?

The Germans are amused by their victims, what the amusement
might be is unclear as they were inside closed vehicles. But
they were paying so little attention that Ukranians had
snuck into Poland
and were permitted to break in trucks
and take valuables. The valuables that could have gone to the
German guards or taken at Sobibor were taken by “wild” Ukranians.

And during this breakin not one of the prisoners thought to
take the opportunity to escape. Or did the wild Ukranians lock
the doors while they were inside?

      The Polish farmers also waited
in front of the entrance to Sobibor and shouted at the Jews in
the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it will not redeem
you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
You will note later on that escapees had to get out the word that
Polish farmers knew all about.

It was also a secret and not a secret but the wild Ukranians
knew all about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a
chant. One has to wonder just how it was heard from inside the
trucks.

You will note below that no one understood what was being
said later in this same testimony.

THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

      The shouts of the Poles
penetrated into the conscience of those weakened from hunger and
thirst pains and agony and they started screaming and
yelling thus deafening the camp.

This is not a clear statement. It appears to say that the
prisoners started screaming so loud from inside the trucks that
it was at least noticeable over the entire camp. Perhaps more of
the eastern style of storytelling.

      The SS-man Michel who was
called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker” as he received the
arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have much to say to the
Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and gunshots. The
Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland, Belgium,
Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did not
understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the
translation of the chant above come from? This witness? Then
she was Polish and (in the opening to the testimony) that she had
started from Kracow to the east of Sobibor. So just where did
they pick up people from the west and south of Sobibor? Is she
trying to say everyone was shipped to Krakow first for some
reason?

      At their arrival to the camp
they were welcomed with a speech by Michel: “You have to be
disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle of them
and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
clothes here.”

He we have a little more of this getting naked outdoors
stuff.

      Among the transport of 7,000
men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the year 1942 and who went
on the same day to the gas chamber only three women survived
chosen to work in the laundry.

This is clearly a statement from the narrator. If we
presume that it was 7,000 men and women then it makes a bit more
sense.

      With an indication of his
finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her
for profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and
his assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela
Sobol and Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to
the crematorium, but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no
knowledge of what happened to the others after this point in the
story. Except of course aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs
of a crematorium. So it unclear where these people were going
other than the implied showers.

      The Jews believed the Germans
and in astonishing order they packed their belongings and after
an hour not even one was alive, only a few craftsmen were allowed
to survive.

But she has no way of knowing. But only three women survived
for the laundry but some craftsmen survived but they were no
selected before passing through the gate.

SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

      We three organized the laundry
in the camp. Until then the German officers too were dirty and
lice-infected. In the course of time the laundry was enlarged and
women from other transports arriving daily were distributed to
us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in her
narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
can”.

They organized a laundry where none existed before and then
the laundry was expanded. It is unclear just what the expansion
of the laundry was for unless a) the number of Germans increased
or b) the number of inmates increased. Neither increase would
make sense on the assumption this was an extermination camp. (It
was, in fact, a work camp specializing in logging and lumber
production.)

      The tension in the hall
extended also to the memory of the woman. She feels the good eyes
of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a Lieutenant in the
police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while writing
every word going out of her mouth.

      The Germans do not want to hear
about what she knows to tell but what she has seen with her own
eyes.

Who would want to hear more of such an absurd tale? These
are serious people who really have better to do than to suppress
their incredulity.

      But how can she not tell about
the shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not
witness it. What in the hell does the author think witness
means?

      The heartbreaking shouts and
screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day
that they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole
transport.

But Ada Lichtman was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
How did the SS pass up the opportunity to do the same at her
arrival? Again, consider the lack of credibility of this
witness.

      Generally the transports
arrived during the day. Once on a hot summer day a transport
arrived with thirsty people as it had been for several days since
they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some to
go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharführer” Michel
was already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug-up
hole which served as a privy and forced them to smear their body
and face with the excrement. And thus he brought them back to the
thirsty people of the transport. From another transport young men
were forced to beat each other to death. The last one remaining
>from this terrible battle was shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing
that this level of testimony that was introduced in capital
trials. Even more interesting that crossexamination was not
permitted.

But even more interesting are the other aspects that appear
strangely common yet told in different ways. These SS folks for
some reason get some kind of thrill out of seeing people covered
in excrement. They also appear to have picked up a Romanesque
interest in battles to the death.

Where such interests might have come from is unclear, either
for Germans to have them or for Easterners to invent them.

HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

      The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann
and her husband whom she met in Sobibor after the revolt are
horrifying.

      They tell how the semi-alive
victims tried to maintain to the last moment not only their human
faces but also their human soulds. They tell about women who
tried to save their children and were desparately driven to
perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with
their own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell
about the Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately
after his arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found
out about it and they chose 72 men and sent them to the
crematorium.

There is a minor problem with this part of the story.
Aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs of a crematorium. Other
than that … the story is that the gassed were first buried and
later dug up and burned in bonfires, neither of which shows up in
the aerial photos either.

This massacre was supervised by the “Oberscharführer”
Frenzel whose trial is taking place at the present moment.
Returning from the scene of the murder he ordered the quick
erection of a temporary stage out of some planks, called for the
orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and dance.

Here we have another of those dancing, singing, orchestral
moments that punctuate so much of the Holocaust. Perhaps she
forgot to mention that they were naked but at least it has the
civility of constructing a stage.

      This Frenzel once caught a boy
red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered all the Jews from the
barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher? It is unclear just
what was the “crime” of eating sardines. Perhaps it was simply a
more extreme response than was involved in the search for the
missing strawberries.

      Sobibor did not become at once
a concentration of plants and workshops. The camp gradually
expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kinds of workshops.
There work was done only for the German officers and guards.
Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to chop trees.
Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them
and escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all
considered the heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of
doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is
nothing new.

THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

      Sasha Pizurski who was brought
to the camp with a group of prisoners of the Russian army
immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To this
committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had
decided revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to await
the arrival of a Russian to organize this and yet the people
there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?

But the story is now changing to the work camp it really
was.

      In the barracks weapons were
started to appear: axes and knives. How dangerous this was! How
much courage, cunning, patience you had to use in order to
conceal this. Many efforts of the spirit and mind, will and
courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided
into groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details:
Every group and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had
to assault the guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns;
some had to tempt the officers into coming into the workshops;
others had to attack the guards that were wandering about.
Special men had to cut off the telephone and electricity lines
and tear down the barbed wires – to make passage ways.

THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

      The revolt was fixed for
October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death enthusiastically took
their fate into their own hands. Until the prearranged sign was
given every group had performed its tasks well. Nevertheless
things which had not been expected in advance happened. Guns
started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield.
On this day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there
began on the hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent
blood of the SS-men and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had
been so sure of themselves when millions of innocent women and
children were led to death, seemed now anxious and inferior, they
became confused and ran like mice into the trap looking for a
hiding place.

It appears she is saying that men were not gassed. The
story does need a good editor, excuse me, an editor, a good
editor would not touch the job.

      The SS-men and the police
pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes and the Polish
farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.

Now wait a minute. Poland was an occupied country. The SS
did not limit itself to jews. And here we have Poles helping the
SS? It sounds a bit like this person from Kracow has a strong
dislike of Poles in addition to Poles.

Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the
Germans. Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived.
Also Mrs. Ada Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a
Polish woman called Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in
Israel succeeded, with help of some young Poles, in arriving to
the partisans in the woods of Parzew and continued their war
against the German army. But until they reached the forest they
wandered around day and night, living off tree leaves and
poisonous mushrooms that so burned their intestines that they
wished to die.

This is an otherwise unknown symptom of mushroom poisoning.

      They lowered their eyes and one
of them was turning his head from side to side replied: “No, we
did not easily agree to accept such a mission. It was forced upon
us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good thing that you
did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled to come
to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the
Germans flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending
the murderers you emphasize the responsibility of the German
people of what took place?” The two defenders ignoring the
question avoided answering and the question remained unanswered.

It appears there was no presumption of innocense in this
trial.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 72992 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:10:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 09:05:13 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>>It is quite true that the Kremas were visible from the “local” farms.
>>It is also quite true that those farms had been confiscated from their
>>former Polish owners and were operated entirely by the SS using inmate
>>labour.

>Several Polish farmers in that area are interviewed in Shoah –
>they provide clear evidence that spending too much time paying
>attention to Auschwitz was unhealthy.

But you have posted the TRUTH that farmers taunting prisoners entering
Sobibor was the common behavior of such farmers.

It is SOP for holohuggers to want it both ways at the same time.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
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http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 72994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: conundrum
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:58:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Holohuggers claim there is no holohugger making harrassing phone calls to
me and my family. If they are correct then the following is false.

When I find out who is making the harrassing phone calls, I will make him
wish he were dead even to the point of making him dead. But that would be
an accident, a long lived blind cripple is my true objective.

If holohuggers are truthful people the above has no meaning. If they are
liars then they will claim the above is a death threat.

But as we know holohuggers are liars and viciously violent people.

We also know they do not lie and no one is conducting this harrassment
campaign. Therefore I have not made a threat.

And of course, any complaint about a threat will prove there is knowledge
of harrassment by holohuggers. Accessories will need be questioned as to
their knowledge and complicity.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 73004 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Continuing myths
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:47:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 22:13:47 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> _The American Hebrew_, October 31, 1919, page 582:

>What is this? Book, magazine, paper.
>Would like to have photocopy of entire article or speech.

As I am regularly advised, go to a library.

>Why is six million significant in 1919?

Prescience; phychic powers, whatever you would like.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:58 PDT 1996
Article: 73005 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:55:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 03:17:13 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:14:01 GMT, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:38:36 -0400, Chris DeNeve
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Why should I believe the holocaust really happened. I have seen no
>>>conclusive evidence. Just some old guy came to my school and said
>>>that the fact he had numbers tatooed on his hand was proof.
>>
>> According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is evidence that
>>there was no gassing. His very existance, if he claims he is jewish, means
>>the intent to exterminate Jews was either not there or missed the obvious.
>Once again the imperious I.Q. of the bloated besotted troll toad is
>placed in action, notice that it could have said that the Tattoo is
>evidence that the nazis did indeed number Jews and others entering
>death camps, though some did survive, thus they weren’t gassed, thus
>it doesn’t prove any thing about gassing. The the nazis did miss the
>obvious and didn’t murder all those who were in the death camps, such
>as Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and others, because they didn’t have the
>time. To obvious for the bloated besotted troll toad intellect, which
>while claiming to have an rather bloated I.Q. is nothing but the sound
>of the bloated besotted troll toad in his pond of puke.

Thank you. That puts me head and shoulders above braindead holohuggers
such as youselves.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 73006 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:57:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:33:58 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is
># evidence that there was no gassing. His very existance, if he
># claims he is jewish, means the intent to exterminate Jews was
># either not there or missed the obvious.

>What a leap of logic. Since the Nazis didn’t have enough time
>to kill *all* the Jews, this means they never meant to kill
>Jews in the first place?

>You have claimed that the IDF tried to kill every sailor on
>the Liberty. Yet, the large majority of the sailors were not
>killed. You have just contradicted yourself.

As you know I have posted eyewtiness testimony to the serial number being
branded, not tattooed, in addition to the Star of David being brnded on
their chests.

As you know, those eyewitnesses told the thruth even though there is not
one example of it. As I have said, no physical evidence.. Reality gets in
the way of holohugger fanstasy.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:30:00 PDT 1996
Article: 73026 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer Takes the Bait!!!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:18:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:97595 alt.revisionism:73026

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:47:34 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen Mulhern)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>* I sleep very well, thank you. I do not have to live with the
>fantasy of
>*mass extermination as you do.
>*
>*This will be my last direct post
>*>to you, as you don’t deserve my time, nor my intellect.
>*
>* Of course it will lbe your last as you have no intellect to speak of,
>*thinking that acceptance in college is of some merit in these affirmative
>*action days, patitcularly for minorities like blacks and majorities like
>*women.
>*
>*>I encourage
>*>others to ignore this crazed, genetic misfit called Matt Giwer, as he
>*>thrives from follw-ups. He represents the absolute sick and twisted and
>*>sompletely wrong minority in this world and no longer deserves our time,
>*>nor our effort. He will slowley wither away to nothingness without our
>*>encouragement. I say… we let him. The facts are on our side… not on
>*>his.
>*
>* The silly little bitch thinks she has said something important.
>She is in
>*fact a fatbroad going to college for no other purpose than to find a
>*husband.

>LOOK EVERYONE!!! See the Giwer get defensive! See the Giwer hurl
>unbased, silly, childish insults at people he doesn’t know because he can
>think of nothing better to say!! See the Giwer realizing he’s wrong,
>after being proven wrong for the millionth time, and get all pissy about
>it! Look everyone! It’s so much fun to bait a dim bulb like Giwer.
>C’mon everyone!! Join in the fun! Post your own rebuttles proving
>Giwer’s ignorance, and watch the troll squirm! Yay!

It is difficult to see how even an ill-educated type such as yourself can
think you said something substantive that would support anything you are
claiming.

And now the great “guess the major” game begins. Literature and education
are the most likely possibilities. Education with a literature minor the
most likely combination.

And what is certain is that she thinks both are “challenging.”

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 12:41:11 PDT 1996
Article: 73039 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:13:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:45:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>You’re posting from worldnet, Matty? Did netcom kick you
>out, after your e-mail bombs?

>## https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg
>##
>## These are not trees?

># That is your captioning. I am posting the real pictures.

>You’re posting the real pictures? Knowing Giwer, he’s probably
>posting the photo of Eva Braun’s bathroom, claiming it’s the
>crematorium.

>Where is this “real picture” of yours, Matty? Where did you
>get it from?

I am certain you will recognize them when you see them.

># You self worth is totally enwrapped in what someone else
># will pay you. That is pitiful.

>Get a job, you damned leech. You claim to have an IQ of 163. It
>should not be so difficult if that is true.

I have no ego interest in what others are willing to pay me.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 12:41:12 PDT 1996
Article: 73052 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conundrum
Date: 10 Oct 1996 16:47:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on2-10.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Oct 10 12:47:22 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says…
>
> Holohuggers claim there is no holohugger making harrassing phone calls
to
>me and my family. If they are correct then the following is false.
>
> When I find out who is making the harrassing phone calls, I will make
him
>wish he were dead even to the point of making him dead. But that would be
>an accident, a long lived blind cripple is my true objective.
>

EEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CAN’T SEE!!! AND I HAVE FALLEN AND CAN’T GET UP!!!

READ THE PAGE THAT MAKES YOUR FORESKIN SING: http://www.babylonians.com

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 13:58:52 PDT 1996
Article: 73064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer of Florida is a Nazi Sympathizer; give him a ring and tell him!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:45:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:32567 alt.revisionism:73064

On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:55:07 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Andrew Mathis wrote:
>>
>> Matt Giwer is a Nazi, or at the very least a Nazi sympathizer.
>>
>> How do I know?
>>
>> Harold Covington, leader of the National Socialist White People’s
>> Party, a.k.a. the American Nazi Party, sent out a column by
>> anti-Semitic (sue me) columnist Joseph Sobran on his listserve a day
>> or so ago.
>>
>> Who sent it to Mr. Covington?
>>
>> Matt Giwer.
>>
>> How do I know this?
>>
>> It still had Giwer’s sig file at the bottom.
>>
>> You’re a filthy fucking Nazi, Matt. Give up trying to hide your
>> partialities.
>>
>> Andrew Mathis
>>
>Now isn’t THAT interesting? Matt is a Nazi sympathizer. . . Now why
>doesn’t that surprise me TOO much!

It does not surprise you because you are not bright enough to comprehend
what is being discussed here.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 13:58:53 PDT 1996
Article: 73074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: look at what the silly jews are up to now
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:46:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Kaspu Corporation (BABYLONIANS-DOM)
2788 Bathurst St. #218
Toronto, Ontario M6B-3A3
Canada

Domain Name: BABYLONIANS.COM

Administrative Contact:
Manny Amaral (MA13-ORG) [email protected]
(416) 233-7150
Fax: (416) 233-6970
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Herczeg, Laszlo (LH90) [email protected]
+1 416 233-7150
Billing Contact:
Bell, Howard (HB180) [email protected]
416-233-7150

Record last updated on 28-Aug-96.
Record created on 28-Aug-96.

Domain servers in listed order:

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The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 15:21:42 PDT 1996
Article: 73092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:16:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Behold the Keren, it createth a straw man and tearest it down.

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Let’s look at those memoirs again, and at the “revisionist”
>claim that they were dictated to Hoess by the Soviets and the
>Poles.

>The Soviets and Poles claimed 4 million deaths at Auschwitz,
>while Hoess gives in his memoirs a rather accurate estimate
>of about 1.3 million. Moreover, he mocks the higher estimates,
>saying they are fruit of wild imagination, etc.

>Can you see how stupid the “revisionist” claim is?

Perhaps it is so stupid because you created it.

>Can anyone explain how come, if they told him what to write,
>they told him to give a figure for the victims so very
>different from theirs? And they also told him “hey, Hoess old
>chap, don’t forget to write that only an idiot would support
>the figures we claim are true”?

>Also, can any “revisionist” explain why the Soviets and the
>Poles would have told Hoess to write that the Soviet POW’s
>behaved like a horde of animals, killing each other for a
>piece of bread, practicing cannibalism, etc?

>And why they would have told him to write that the Polish
>prisoners were bitterly fighting among them, even killing
>each other, in battles for higher positions in the inmate
>hierarchy?

Can you explain WHEN he was supposed to have written it, dictated or not?

Can you explain why it was not introduced into evidence against him?

Can you explain why he was acquitted of the charge of gassing Polish
civilians and convicted of shooting POWs?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 18:08:18 PDT 1996
Article: 73125 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: from the new bible
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:41:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

“I looked into the name of the holocaust and it’s number was six million.
Count ye not to twelve but to directly to six.”
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 73141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:26:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:73141 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32602 alt.politics.white-power:46197 alt.skinheads:39327

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:21:51 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
>> were originally released by the CIA?
>>
>> Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

>Well obviously it means that Nizkor is run by the DOD, or specifically, the
>cat of the sister of the guy who ingers 1B Systems from the Milnet
>database.

>By the way, you’re a troll:

> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll who
>resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general prevarication
>in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you, little man, are
>completely devoid of anything resembling decency, morality, and integrity.

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at

And you support Marduk’s death threats? Why would you you support those
idirect folks? Just because they are jews?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 73142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: euthanasia murders?
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:00:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 08 Oct 96 00:12:48 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander
Baron) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] “Matt Giwer” writes:
>>
>> I did not think we were debating Keren here but it is clear that he
>> promotes as true the obvious lies of Israel regarding the murder of the
>> crew of the USS Liberty. He pretends to be both a US citizen and a Jew
>> which makes him a jew traitor by his own words.
>>
>> There may be larger issues here but there is no reason not to indentify
>> him
>> for what he has professed to be by his own words.

>Dan is like so many others of his kind, a victim of indoctrination. The thought
>that someone can have a contrary opinion on this subject without being an
>anti-Semite causes him great consternation.

When a man joins the Marines, it is expected that he will be indoctrinated,
in fact he has chosen it. Some years into his career, it becomes his job
to indoctriante others.

Although Keren is now in the stage of indoctrinating others, he was at one
time desirous of becoming indoctrinated. It was a choice he freely made.

Beynod attempting to discuss what really might have happened despite the
noise level, a good part of the effort is provide the background fo the
lurkers so that they will not choose indoctrination, to know there is
information other than what they have been lead to believe. That way they
may choose to think for themselves.

The very least we need to do is let others know there is another side so
that as a minimum they put it into the “not sure” category.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:03 PDT 1996
Article: 73170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Continuing myths
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:00:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:02:48 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 22:13:47 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Carpenter)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >> _The American Hebrew_, October 31, 1919, page 582:
>>
>> >What is this? Book, magazine, paper.
>> >Would like to have photocopy of entire article or speech.
>>
>> As I am regularly advised, go to a library.

>Are you telling us YOU went into a library in Florida and found issues
>of the “American Hebrew” going back to 1919? Then you read each and
>every issue until you found one with the phrase “six million”, and made
>a note of it for future reference?

I am telling you nothing other than to stop sending me email that
duplicates your public posts. But of course if you think Florida is devoid
of jews …

>Wow! What excellent research skills! And what a marvelous library you
>have in your community. Mind telling me which library you used?

I am suggesting you find it on your own. That is what holohuggers keep
telling me.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:04 PDT 1996
Article: 73179 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: look as the silly jews now
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:11:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

And remember that Colin MacGregor lied and all of idirect lied.

Kaspu Corporation (BABYLONIANS-DOM)
2788 Bathurst St. #218
Toronto, Ontario M6B-3A3
Canada

Domain Name: BABYLONIANS.COM

Administrative Contact:
Manny Amaral (MA13-ORG) [email protected]
(416) 233-7150
Fax: (416) 233-6970
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Herczeg, Laszlo (LH90) [email protected]
+1 416 233-7150
Billing Contact:
Bell, Howard (HB180) [email protected]
416-233-7150

Record last updated on 28-Aug-96.
Record created on 28-Aug-96.

Domain servers in listed order:

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The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
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=====

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=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 73185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger idiocy repeated again
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:13:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:10:32 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

It is interesting to see that you confirm you are in fact that stupid. The
curious part of it is why you are proud of it.

>To quote an Alaskan correspondent: Don’t call neo-Nazis neo-Nazis;
>call them Nazis. I don’t call the dogshit on my front lawn when it
>thaws out in April “neo-dogshit.”

>Eat that, Herr Giwer.

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 9 Oct 1996 17:16:40 GMT, [email protected] (Felix Vagabond) wrote:

>>> I have heard it too from a very good source that Matt Giwer is Nazi.

>>> He should admit it publicaly and not hide.

>> In other words you truly believe that I am a member of a political party
>>that was disbanded in 1945.

>> That makes you terminally stupid but not exceptional for a holohugger.

>>>–
>>>==============================================================================
>>> HELL, IN CASE YOU DON’T KNOW,IS THE PLACE WHERE YOU DON’T HAVE
>>> THE LUXURY OF WALKING UP FROM YOUR NIGHTMARES.
>>> A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR!

>> SciFi Channel Sightings is going to feature (10/11/96) a person remembering
>>being a victim in his past life.

>> It is not amazing how far the psychotic holohuggers will go to create
>>victims?

>>>==============================================================================

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 73188 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Interesting
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:08:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Watching the documentary NUREMBERG on the Discovery Channel.

The primary charge in the minds of those interviewed was a conspiracy to
wage aggressive warfare. It was not explained what other kind of warfare
there is.

It was hardly anything approaching a complete record of any kind but the
out-takes made some things quite clear. If those charged had defense
counsel they counsel either slept through the questioning or were not
permitting to object to leading questions, the prosecutions giving
testimony, and a host of other things that would result in a successful
appeal in a fair trial.

Almost every question shown would result in a sustained objection in a fair
trial.

YFE holds Nuremberg was a fair trial.

=====

Churchill’s statement the Russia was dividing Europe with an Iron Curtain
was a phrase he borrowed from Goebbels.

=====

Alfred Krupp was convicted and the assets of his company were siezed. That
certainly put a value upon finding his guilty of doing what the government
told him to do. After serving only two years of a 12 year sentence he was
released and his assets restored.

=====

As a result of the first trial there were eleven death sentences. The
bodies were burned in the Dachau crematorium. The film of it indicated it
was an unsheltered single oven affair like the one at Belsen.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:06 PDT 1996
Article: 73190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:15:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 23:53:55 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>
>> # There’s just few trees near this crema, and back, dozens of
>> # meters away we can see trees, but what we don’t see in the photo
>>
>> Oh yes we do. Very, very clearly.
>>
>> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg
>>
>> I see a great many trees there. Maybe you should have your
>> eyes examined.

> Do you contest that few meters away from this crema, approximativelly
> from the place where the photographer took this picture, there was
> dozens of barracks according to Birkenau map? YES or NO?

If you look at the aerial pictures, the tne number of trees is meaningless.
The Krema is no further from the barracks than the barracks are from each
other.

Of course the Chuckle Fairy claims the picture is a CIA forgery, for what
hat is worth.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:07 PDT 1996
Article: 73193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:07:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 8 Oct 1996 22:28:40 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> > You most certainly have. As one example you have, falsely, accused
>> >the investigators of the Malmedy massacre of phsyically torturing German soldiers
>to
>> >extract confessions.
>
>> You mean you are still holding to your position that they all had their
>> attorneys present during all questioning?

> Liar. I have never stated that.

I thought you stated the accused were given fair trials? What that someone
else?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 00:35:25 PDT 1996
Article: 73195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 23:48:07 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
>> # [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> # You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4
>> # and 5’ ?? 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau????
>>
>> Yes – relative to the SS HQ of Birkenau.

> An where did he say relative to the SS HQ? nowhere. He’s talking
> about Birkenau. He’s talking about a small wood, and locate the
> ‘gas chamber’ IN this wood, not close to a couple of trees that
> are in the vicinity of Birkenau. And he said that the ‘gas chamber’
> was camouflated in this wood. Your explication is ridiculous.
> If you have the pretention to read in the mind and transform
> each of his words according to your will, that’s up to you. The
> words that he used mean simply: starting from the SW corner of
> Birkenau, 1 to 1,5 km away in a straight line. When I’m saying
> 1 km on the south of central park, this doesn’t mean ‘starting
> from 680 meters on the north of the southern border of central park’
> but 1 km on the south of the southern border.

From the aerial photo, EVERYTHING in that direction from ANY place in the
camp including the border is either more of the camp or worked farmland.
And there is quite a network of access roads in that direction.

He is making up his patch of trees. There is nothing but farmland.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 00:35:26 PDT 1996
Article: 73196 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news1.hay.mci.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer Takes the Bait!!!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:20:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 437
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 16:38:40 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

> “Of course I ahve [sic] not been to the museum, dumbtwat….
> It is only a lying idiot dumbtwat who would suggest that
> visiting a particular museum is a sine que non for belief.”
> (Matt Giwer, Sept. 4, 1996)

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

>[a vulgar sot, desperate for attention, wrote]

> “The silly little bitch thinks she has said something
> important. She is in fact a fatbroad going to college for no
> other purpose than to find a husband.”

>>LOOK EVERYONE!!! See the Giwer get defensive! See the Giwer hurl
>>unbased, silly, childish insults at people he doesn’t know because he can
>>think of nothing better to say!! See the Giwer realizing he’s wrong,
>>after being proven wrong for the millionth time, and get all pissy about
>>it! Look everyone! It’s so much fun to bait a dim bulb like Giwer.
>>C’mon everyone!! Join in the fun! Post your own rebuttles proving
>>Giwer’s ignorance, and watch the troll squirm! Yay!

>Never mind the insults, Madam! Consider the victory, the HONOUR!
>Has not the silly little sh/^H^Hgiwer himself bestowed upon you the
>greatest honour he is capable of offering?

>Has he not admitted defeat, and inducted you?

> Are you not now a FATBROAD?
> http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/

>Rejoice! Rejoice! You’ve beaten the pathetic little sot. Now
>you can ignore him by putting him into your KILL file… no
>question it drives the little fella nuts, because he keeps
>changing his userid to get around them… he knows nothing
>about KILL files, of course, so it doesn’t work, but it’s
>amusing to watch.

>Fatbroad! Wow. Near immediate induction into the Sisterhood. Wow.

On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz

>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors who arrived from
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
> over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.

>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.

>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.

>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.

>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh
as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers
believe this sort of crap.

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of
these wagons, depending upon translation.

And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.

Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the
engine. Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the
faces of pilots from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be
paid for this performance.

>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient
these Nazis.

>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe is heard of those awful days which
>had become from day to day more terrible.

A true whacko so far.

>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they
could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person
is truly psychotic.

>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.

Certainly fingers were just pulled off.

Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?

>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.

But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.

You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.

> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust pains and agony and they started
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.

>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
> to say to the Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the
chant above come from? This witness?

>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”

Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.

>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.

>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.

But she has no way of knowing.

> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.

They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.

Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.

>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.

>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.

Who is it that does not want hearsay?

But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it.
What in the hell does the author think witness means?

The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.

But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.

>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty people as it had been for several
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty people of
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more
interesting that crossexamination was not permitted.

> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.

>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.

Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.

>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?

>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop trees.
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.

> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize
this and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?

>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.

But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.

> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.

Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.

>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of tree leaves and poisonous mushrooms that so burned their
>intestines that they wished to die.

They did not live off of them.

>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.

Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.

=====

http://www.codoh.com/

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>To eliminate Mr. Giwer’s vulgarity from your daily newsreading, add the
>lines
> /[email protected]/f=j
> /[email protected]/f=j
> /[email protected]/f=j

>to your universal KILL file. If you do not enjoy the luxury of such a
>filter, simply delete Mr. Giwer’s articles unread.

>Mr. Giwer’s handlers report that he has responded well to training, and
>now reacts in the prescribed manner, changing his userid each time the
>bell is sounded. Not only does this demonstrate how readily he takes to
>the halter, but how little he knows about KILL files.

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:31 PDT 1996
Article: 73218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news1.hay.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: policy statement
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:27:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

The issue is “Holohuggers can believe anything they want BUT
imposing that belief on me or my children or my actions or the actions of
my fellow citizens or the actions of my country makes it the imposition of
tyranny and personal affair.”

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:32 PDT 1996
Article: 73223 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:31:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:31:49 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Judith Toth wrote:

>> The Torah/Deutoronomy 14:21 –
>> “You shall not eat anything that has died a natural death; give it to
>> the stranger in you community to eat, or you may sell it to a
>> foreigner. For you are a people consecrated to the LORD your God.”
>> /page352 The Torah, the Five Books of Moses, Jewish Publication
>> Society of America, Phil. 1962/
>> Your interpretation on this would be appreciated!…..
>>

>I seems to say, “Don’t eat roadkill but if someone else wants it let
>them have it.”

Which brings up the question as to whether holohugger roadkill is clean or
unclean.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:32 PDT 1996
Article: 73224 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:41:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Oct 1996 18:50:06 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Thank you. That puts me head and shoulders above braindead holohuggers
>>such as youselves.

> Translation: “I, Matt Giwer, am in no need of facts. They merely get in
>the way of my opinions!”

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
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Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996
and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still
worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just
prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false
information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about
having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
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=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:33 PDT 1996
Article: 73227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: You too can become rich in spirit
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:50:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Attached are the names and stories of ten survivors of the holocaust.

Remove the top name and add your name to the bottom of the list and include
your story. Mail this story to ten other holocaust survivors.

In time you will receive at least 50,000 survivor stories as you rise to
the top of the list.

You break this chain your first born shall be forfeit to Yahweh.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:34 PDT 1996
Article: 73228 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:42:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Oct 1996 18:42:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is evidence that
>>there was no gassing. His very existance, if he claims he is jewish, means
>>the intent to exterminate Jews was either not there or missed the obvious.

> How about this: they were defeated before the plan could be completed.

> I think Matt’s missed the obvious.

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996
and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still
worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just
prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false
information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about
having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:35 PDT 1996
Article: 73229 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: One more lesson in statistics
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:57:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]rldnet.att.net>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Oct 1996 10:23:55 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Judith Toth wrote:
>>ABOUT NATURAL BIRTHRATES
>> Professor U.O. Schmelz – in the Jewish Year Book (1980) published by
>>Hebrew University – enumerates the increase in the number of Jews in
>>13 countries between 1959 and 1975. With the exception of Israel,
>>where the increase is 1.7% per year, in the rest of the 12 countries
>>named, not even the 1% birthrate is reached. If we consider the
>>highest percentage of 1% increase, then within 17 years the number of
>>Jewish population of the world is supposed to be increased by
>>1,870,000 [from a base of 11 million] and not more than 4 million.

> I’ve given Matt Giwer a good long time to correct your computation
>error above,

Actually I had missed it. However I did comment twice upon the more robust
posting upon growth rates that, extended to 1940, resulted in 12 million
European Jews. And with that ended the “I lost 137 relatives” line by
noting that at most AS I HAD PREVIOUSLY POSITED noe more than half died in
the strange event that it was all true.

Do you have a problem with either? I did not notice you commenting upon
the 12 v 6 million comments I made.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:35 PDT 1996
Article: 73231 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conundrum
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:10:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:39:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># When I find out who is making the harrassing phone calls,

>Were you not a proven pathological liar, I would have considered
>the possibility that you’re telling the truth. But frankly, I
>don’t believe anyone is making such calls.

Too bad they have been found, the three jews who have been behind this.
You have read the post, have you not? Internic does not lie.

># I will make him wish he were dead even to the point of making him
># dead. But that would be an accident, a long lived blind cripple
># is my true objective.

>How about forcing him to read through your web page? That’s even
>worse. Folks, anyone remember that scene in “Clockwork Orange” when
>they tie the guy to a chair, force his eyes open, and show him
>all those films? Perhaps old Matty has such a chair in front of
>his PC… the horror!! 🙂

How about I have their names?

># http://www.webcom.com/ezundel

>You admire and support a madman who claims the Nazi leadership
>fled the collapsing Reich and flew into the inner earth, via
>a hole in the South-Pole, using “secret UFO’s”. Do you think
>this may result in people doubting other claims you make?

Whatever I might admire, it certainly beats admiring the murderous jews who
have ruled Israel over the decades. Zundel never murder anyone. The list
of murders who have rules Israel is all inclusive. Everyone of them has
murdered personally and as an elected leader save the present one.

At least the Germans had a weak constitution that permitted the Nazis to
declare national emergency and stay in power forever. The Israelis have
elected murdering terrorists from the first election.

Given a nutcase or a series of murderers I will take the former any day.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:36 PDT 1996
Article: 73233 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics
Subject: Re: Who Flys, Who Doesn’t – U.S. Airlines/Israel
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:45:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:73233 alt.conspiracy:97874

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:52:28 GMT, [email protected]pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
> A few weeks ago the “Spotlight” newspaper published an article
>citing proposed security measures at U.S. airports. The article
>related how a Jew from Israel flew in to act as an advisor.

> His suggestion was to have a data base with a list of names of
>those suspected of being terrorists or possible terrorist, and barring
>them from taking flights.

> Today, Oct. 10, 1996, New York Times,

> “Clinton Signs Wide-Ranging Measure on Airport Security”

> In addition to other measures cited, the Times says;

> “The bill also authorizes augmenting existing airline computer
>systems with so-called passenger profiling capacity, so that airlines
>could compare information in their computers — names, addresses,
>travel histories and the like — with existing government lists of
>suspected terrorists or terrorists traits to single out passengers for
>extra security.”

> And who should we assume is and has been feeding this government
>computer base with the names of people with “terrorist traits”?

> The ADL, The Simon Wiesenthal Center, The World Jewish Congress,
>Mossad, and well … all the rest.

> First the special singling out for extra security checks, and
>then, once that settles in, the outright banning of anyone on the list
>to even travel at all.

If I may beg your indulgance not to generate email …

The Flt 800 incident generated this legislation.

1) We have no idea what brought down that flight

2) We have exactly two profiles of people who have brought bombs on board
to blown themselves up in flight in the history of flight

3) The profile collection proposed is not relevant to Flt 800.

But, yes, you are correct in part, the politically correct wildly liberal
establishment is at it again. Liberty is good for everyone as long as it
is moderated liberty. We have no reason to want “jewish” moderators in
control as they would bend everything to Israel and the Marxism of the
Israeli mentality.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:37 PDT 1996
Article: 73234 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Giwer’s syndrome – Foot *in* mouth disease
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:50:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:73234 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32627 alt.politics.white-power:46219

On 10 Oct 1996 19:43:27 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
>>were originally released by the CIA?

> Let’s see – the camps were liberated in 1945 and the photos were
>released by an organisation that wasn’t formed until 1947, when Truman signed
>the National Security Act. I knew the CIA was sneaky, but I didn’t realise that
>they had invented time travel!

>> Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

> Facts aren’t your strong point, are they, Matt?

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996
and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still
worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just
prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false
information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about
having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:37 PDT 1996
Article: 73237 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conundrum
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:19:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:23:44 -0400, [email protected] (Sara aka
Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Holohuggers claim there is no holohugger making harrassing phone
>calls to
>> me and my family. If they are correct then the following is false.
>>

>”You and your family”?
>
>Are you USING your family, Mr. Giwer?

I am stating a fact.

I am not stating a lie that an autistic child can be “offended” by what is
posted here.

An autistic does not have the wits to know what jewish is in the first
place, much less the harder parts of it.

On the other hand my son knows how to bring down a world of internet hurt
on these three and idirect.

You touch-feely sugarly belief your son really has worth is rather a
testiment to the love of a parent than to any worth you son might have.

And do not forget to bring up the currently popular example. After decades
of every expensive help on female autistic wrote enough to lend here name
to a ghost written and heavily editted book.

Amazing after centuries of experience with autism, this is the only
success.

And that after the recent fraud of guiding the hand over the keyboard so
they can type out their message.

I presume you guide his hand also.

You are truly an idiot.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:38 PDT 1996
Article: 73243 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: lyrical
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:19:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Where have all the ashes gone
Long time passing
Where have all the ashes gone
Long time ago

We’ve and eaten them
Every one

Long time ago
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:39 PDT 1996
Article: 73246 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:30:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:73246 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32632 alt.politics.white-power:46225 alt.skinheads:39355

On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 06:47:11 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:21:51 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
>>Gandhi) wrote:

>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>>> And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
>>>> were originally released by the CIA?
>>>>
>>>> Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

>>>Well obviously it means that Nizkor is run by the DOD, or specifically, the
>>>cat of the sister of the guy who ingers 1B Systems from the Milnet
>>>database.

>>>By the way, you’re a troll:

>>> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
>>> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
>>> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
>>> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
>>> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”

>>> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>>>Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll who
>>>resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general prevarication
>>>in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you, little man, are
>>>completely devoid of anything resembling decency, morality, and integrity.

>>>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>>>available at

>> And you support Marduk’s death threats? Why would you you support those
>>idirect folks? Just because they are jews?

>Who is Marduk, besides a Babylonian God and the prototype for
>Mordechai, from Megillat Ruth?

The people I have posted. Did you miss it or should I post it again?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:39 PDT 1996
Article: 73247 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Makes Another Unsubstantiated Charge
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:29:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Oct 1996 02:21:49 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) a/k/a “The Criminal” writes:

> Rajiv Ghandi hit the nail on the head when he wrote:

>> >Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll who
>> >resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general prevarication
>> >in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you, little man, are
>> >completely devoid of anything resembling decency, morality, and integrity.
>>
>> >For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>> >available at
>
>> And you support Marduk’s death threats? Why would you you support
>those
>> idirect folks? Just because they are jews?

> To date no proof of “death threats” from “Marduk” has been posted here
>nor do his posts make such statements. On the other hand, those of the Criminal
>Giwer are here.

Here is not what matters, little shit. The Jews who have been doing it is
what matters.

> Like many other lawbreakers, the Criminal Giwer is attempting to avert
>attention from his own hate crimes and criminal harassment of those who disagree
>with him.

> And the number of “revisionists” who have publically objected to these
>tactics is:

> Zilch.

> Draw your own conclusions.

By the evidence here, jews are lying scum of the earth. They conspire,
they threaten, they harrass, they hang together by virtue of being jewish.
Scum like YFE defend their fellow jewish scum only because they are fellow
jews.

Jews here, on this conference are scum. No human jew would participate in
the terrorist tactics of the holohuggers on this conference. It is the
professional victim jews who hand out here.

They know no law or equity or justice. They are the kind of animals who
say that a thousand Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.

As is YFE.

A thousand YFEs are not worth one innocent Palestinian child deliberately
shelled to death by IDF artillery by Israeli Jews.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:40 PDT 1996
Article: 73248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:34:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Oct 1996 22:58:21 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 8 Oct 1996 22:28:40 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> >> You mean you are still holding to your position that they all had their
>> >> attorneys present during all questioning?
>
>> > Liar. I have never stated that.
>
>> I thought you stated the accused were given fair trials? What that
>someone
>> else?

> Liar. In case you were too drunk to notice we are talking about the
>Malmedy trials. I have posted specific statements and government investigations
>that indicate that there were irregularities at those trials.

Gee, and I was talking about Nuremberg, which you also swore on your oath
as an honorable man was a fair trial under the rules of US law.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:41 PDT 1996
Article: 73249 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer of Florida is a Nazi Sympathizer; give him a ring and tell him!
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:52:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32607c75.32125[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:32634 alt.revisionism:73249

On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 04:23:49 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>Is the air pollution in El Toro getting to your brain, Dipper?

>A Nazi is an antisemitic fascist, simply put.

>You’re one.

>Giwer’s one.

In fact. as I was attacked first, then simply by temprament, I would return
the favor a thousand fold until there is an apology.

I retract that, a million fold until I am begged to stop.

I questioned a simple issue and I was libeled in blood by jews.

They understand what they did.

I return the favor.

The Jew Terrorists have no idea who the libeled.

The Jews at Internet Direct (idirect) have no idea who they libeled.

And of course they are all correct.

I am an impotent, drunken social leech in a rented trailer in Tampa as they
have said just playing games with the keyboard as they have said so they
have nothing to fear in any manner.

I agree with them. They are safe as are all of their collaborators. There
is nothing I can do to them. I faked it all.

All of the above is a lie. Play with it.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:42 PDT 1996
Article: 73250 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:05:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:32:24 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># We are stlll into the 80,000 (eighty thousand) people that
># were “burned or gassed to death in a single night.” Not
># 800 and not 8000 but 80,000 and all in a single night.

>Your problem is that the witness never claimed that.

>You are a liar, who posted distorted testimony. Distorted
>intentionally in order to make the witness appear unreliable.

Good sir, I have no problem other than dealing with someone who continues
to lie in support of their victim status thus excusing all of their
failures in life.

>The witness who is misquoted here is Dr. Bendel. He testified
>about Auschwitz, not Belsen (that’s lie number 1 by Giwer
>regarding his testimony). Also, he said that the 80,000
>Jews of the Lodz Ghetto were murdered during 45 days, not
>one night (see Pressac’s book, p. 471). That’s lie number
>2 by Giwer regarding his testimony.

>Face it: you’re a liar, who posted testimony which does not
>exist. There’s no reason for anyone to believe anything
>you claim.

Rather than play your game I will observe you are a professional jew victim
as well as a traitor.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:43 PDT 1996
Article: 73254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ostrow-Lubelski: To Remember and to Tell
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:51:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Oct 1996 09:00:37 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

>Archive/File: holocaust/poland Ostrow.05
>Last-modified: 1993/03/27
>Transcription: [email protected]

Two interesting things here

First, despite the LYING holohuggers here, McVay again posts from oneb (1B)
systems, a DOD organization and for its second feat, it pretends to be
Amercican rather than Canadian. So again we have McVay lying and all of
those claiming I have the wrong McVay and that is he not in the employ of
the CIA as liars proven by McVay himself.

It is this kind of sloppiness and failur to pay attention to detail that
gets people killed in the real world.

In the internet world is just demonstrates that holohuggers are liars and
that their cover is really too stupid to take care of them.

But then, this is the stupid McVay that has such a following.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:44 PDT 1996
Article: 73257 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen: OSR-USSR-#24
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 08:04:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Thank you for the clear forgery.

On 10 Oct 1996 20:20:01 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>The Chief of the Security Police Berlin, July 26, 1941
> and the SD
> 41 copies
> ———
> (29th copy)

>OPERATIONAL SITUATION REPORT USSR No. 34

>…………

>Einsatzgruppe B:
>Location: Orsha
>Reports:

>Einsatzkommando 9 is in Vileyka and Molodencho, though a rear
>Kommando is still in Vilnius.

Only the Soviet Union considered Vilnius to be part of the Soviet Union at
the time of this report.

Einsatzkommando 8 is in Minsk, with
>detachments in Borisov and Slutsk. Detachment Bonifer has taken over
>the task of the security police in Baranoviche since July 24, 1941.

>Sonder Kommando 7 reports from Vitebsk:

>Before the occupation there was a commissar for public health at
>Vitebsk; subordinated to him were the managers of the health
>insurance offices, mostly Jews. The newly appointed physician, Dr.
>Muraschki, states that prior to this there were 200 physicians; at
>present only 40 among them are Jews. There are four hospitals, four
>clinics, and a medical college. Clinics formerly did not take in
>sick persons. The army took over 3 hospitals. The municipality now
>has its hospital with 40 beds, a medical college with 500 beds, and
>clinics. The chief of the clinics, Dr. Kuprevyev, is an optometrist.
>Allegedly epidemics have not occurred recently. The most frequent
>diseases are tuberculosis and typhus. For tuberculosis, one hospital
>with 40 beds available is presently occupied by 12 patients.

>The sewer system is still operating and relatively intact.
>Waterworks are partly in operation again. Water supply locations are
>installed within the city; water, however, must be boiled. So far,
>about 3000 Jews are registered by the appointed Jewish Council.
>Badges for Jews introduced. At present they are being employed with
>clearing rubble. For deterrence 27 Jews who had not come to work
>were publicly shot in the streets. (Arad, 51)

> Work Cited

>Arad, Yitzak, Shmuel Krakowski and Shmuel Spector, Editors. The
>Einsatzgruppen Reports. New York: Holocaust Library, 1989.
>–
>The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>https://nizkor.org/ [email protected]

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:44 PDT 1996
Article: 73258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the (snip) game
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:08:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Not a problem here folks but I will consider the (snip) game the same as
the repetition of any mantra.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:45 PDT 1996
Article: 73290 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:12:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:22:15 -0400, [email protected] (Sara aka
Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>


>[Mr. Giwer’s crap snipped]
>
>Once again, Mr. 163 IQ shows his inability to locate something as simple as
>”HTML Markdown.”

And are you a mere genius who can not use a browser?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:46 PDT 1996
Article: 73297 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:43:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:02:27 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Fergus McClelland) writes:

>[About my article]

># His comments about stuffing many bodies into an oven at
># once was so ridiculous

>What is ridiculous about them? Why not put more than one
>corpse in a furnace, if the only goal is to burn them as
>fast as possible? More so, if there are many children and
>infants among the victims?

As you know, the time to cremate is a function of body weight. Multiple
bodies take as long together as separately. You continue to pretend to be
ignorant of that no matter how many times you are reminded that you know
it.

># that there is no need to comment on it,

>Why don’t you try nonetheless?

>You think you know more about the furnaces than the people
>who designed, built, and ran them? See their estimates, in
>documents written during the war. I gave you a reference.

I really find it amusing when you folks get into claiming that all fires
burn at the same rate regardless of size. Let see, one pound of trash
burns in ten minutes so ten pounds of trash also burns in tens minutes as
does a hundred pounds of trash burn in ten minutes.

You folks are truly amazing in being able to dismiss every day experience
in favor of nonsense beliefs like this one.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 09:07:46 PDT 1996
Article: 73300 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 1) MORE ALLIED LIES
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:33:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 11 Oct 1996 02:07:30 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> Jeffrey writes:
>>
>> Rudolf Hoess
>> Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess is often cited as one of the most
>> important witnesses to the “Holocaust,” if not the most important. His
>> affidavit and testimony were quoted extensively both by the prosecution
>> and in the judgment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg.

> Actually Hoess was irrelevant to the prosecution case. He was called as a
>witness for the *defense.*

A dozen or more solid posts and a jew traitor can only find one to respond
to.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 12:14:16 PDT 1996
Article: 73326 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Holohugger idiocy repeated again
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:49:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
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On 9 Oct 1996 17:16:40 GMT, [email protected] (Felix Vagabond) wrote:

> I have heard it too from a very good source that Matt Giwer is Nazi.

> He should admit it publicaly and not hide.

In other words you truly believe that I am a member of a political party
that was disbanded in 1945.

That makes you terminally stupid but not exceptional for a holohugger.

>–
>==============================================================================
> HELL, IN CASE YOU DON’T KNOW,IS THE PLACE WHERE YOU DON’T HAVE
> THE LUXURY OF WALKING UP FROM YOUR NIGHTMARES.
> A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR!

SciFi Channel Sightings is going to feature (10/11/96) a person remembering
being a victim in his past life.

It is not amazing how far the psychotic holohuggers will go to create
victims?

>==============================================================================

> Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource that cares not about >copyrights
> Anonymous ftp: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?
> European mirror: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
> Nizkor Web: https://nizkor.org/ (Under construction
> – permanently!)

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Sun Oct 13 08:51:40 PDT 1996
Article: 73793 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Auschwitz evidence?
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:38:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Thu, 10 Oct 96 18:56:56 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander
Baron) wrote:

>In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:

>> Please answer my question, if you can.
>>
>> If there was nothing criminal going on inside the Birkenau
>> kremas, the SS would obviously have taken the Red Cross and
>> other visitors into them, to prove this.
>>
>> There is no rational explanation the “revisionists” can offer
>> for the fact that visitors were not allowed in the kremas.

>You’re creating a mystery where there is none, Dan. In Kalendarium, Walter
>Lacqueur writes that the SS were sworn to secrecy about the “Extermination
>Programme”. It has been a standing joke in England for many years that it is
>a breach of the Official Secrets Act to reveal how many sugars the prison
>governor has in his tea. In short, the SS didn’t allow the Red Cross to
>visit the crematoria. Did they inspect the burning pits in which 1,000 people
>an hour were burned, according to Dr Bendel? Stop kidding yourself Dan.

Let me pose something other than a keren argument from his own ignorance.

The entire point of the IRC inspections is that they were in the position
of an inspector general, they had the power to go any place they wanted.
So the issue is more correctly 1) did the IRC request inspections, 2) were
they denied inspections and 3) if denied where were the official protests?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 15 14:58:53 PDT 1996
Article: 74546 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: zionism
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:41:42 GMT
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Zionism’s Failure to Support
Resistance

The World Zionist Organization prided itself on its international
organisation
and especially its intelligence network and so on. It was the only
specifically
Jewish international organisation which had liaison offices both inside and
on the periphery of Nazi Europe, which had direct organisational links with
Zionist groups throughout Europe and direct access to and political
influence with the Allied powers, and which had been engaged in arms
smuggling and financial operations. The only other international Jewish
organisation was the Bund, which had far less resources and did far more to
publicize the Holocaust and seek support for Jewish resistance in Europe.

The vast apparatus of the World Zionist Organisation, including its illegal
armed forces in Palestine etc. was not used to publicize the Holocaust and
support resistance, but took part in covering it up until the Allied powers
decided to publicize it.

This vast Zionist apparatus was not used either for assisting beleaguered
ghetto fighters or aiding rescue activities. Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandel,
organizer of rescue activities in Slovakia asks in his book ‘From the
Depths’:

Why didn’t they try, from their place of freedom, to break through to us
and
send us a secret messenger? This question becomes greater when we see
that the governments of Czechoslovakia and Poland, which were in free
lands, sent secret messengers daily to their loyal people in the occupied
countries. And therefore our amazement grows. Why don’t the great
organizers of Jewry use these messengers if they have no other way? And
during all of the years since we developed this method, those in the free
countries did not once attempt to send messengers to us – rather, WE had
to send them and to pay for them. How many did we send them only for the
to return empty-handed – because those over there did not have time to
answer ?” (Quoted in ‘The Holocaust Victims Accuse’ by Rabbi Moshe
Shonfeld)

The only known assistance from the international Zionist movement to
Jewish resistance in Nazi Europe was when the British Royal Air Force
parachuted some volunteers from Palestine to make contact with partisan
forces. Those who were escorted by Tito’s partisans from Yugoslavia to
Hungary were handed over to the Gestapo by their Zionist ‘liaison’ in
Budapest – Rudolf Kastner.

Many Zionists in Nazi Europe had no choice but to fight back against the
Nazis and some acquitted themselves with honour in ghetto rebellions and
partisan warfare, although these resistance activities were generally led
by
Communists and Bundists rather than by Zionists.

Large masses of Jews organised resistance movements and took part in
partisan warfare throughout occupied Europe – usually under Communist
leadership, often under direct command of the Red Army, and generally
making quite a substantial contribution to the Allied war effort.

Generally, Zionists preferred MASSADA-like last stands to the more
effective form of resistance – partisan warfare. But even at Warsaw, where
their contribution was greatest, the majority of fighters were Communist,
Bundist or unaffiliated. Moreover, although both left-wing Zionists and
Revisionists did make a major contribution to the Warsaw ghetto rebellion,
their first target was other Zionists, mainly mainstream ones, who were
leaders of the Nazi sponsored Judenrat, the ghetto police and the Jewish
Gestapo.

The leading pro-German, anti-British Zionist theoretician, one of the well
known international leaders of a dissident faction in Zionism, Dr. Alfred
Nossig, was shot by the Warsaw ghetto fighters as a Gestapo agent.
Whatever role some Zionists played in the resistance activities, the plain
fact is that they got little or no support from the international Zionist
movement, whose leadership was too busy demanding unrestricted
immigration and a Jewish Army in Palestine.

That is not to say that Zionists in Palestine were incapable of giving
assistance to partisan warfare. On the contrary, both the mainstream
Zionists and the Revisionists maintained very efficient clandestine armed
forces in Palestine throughout the war, and these both had extensive arms
smuggling operations which substantially depleted British armouries and
forced the diversion of British troops to guard duty. But these arms were
for
use against the British and the Arabs, not against the Germans. Details
will
be found in ‘Cross Roads to Israel’ by Christopher Sykes (Nel Mentor,
London, 1967).

Zionist Priorities During the Holocaust

Zionist policy during the Holocaust is best summed up in the words of
Yitzhak Greenbaum speaking on ‘The Diaspora and the Redemption’ at a
Tel Aviv meeting in February 1943:

For the rescue of the Jews in the Diaspora, we should consolidate our
excess strength and the surplus of powers that we have. When they come
to us with two plans – the rescue of the masses of Jews in Europe or the
redemption of the land – I vote, without a second thought, for the
redemption of the land. The more said about the slaughter of our people,
the greater the minimization of our efforts to strengthen and promote the
Hebraization of the land. If there would be a possibility today of buying
packages of food with the money of the ‘Keren Hayesod’ (United Jewish
Appeal) to send it through Lisbon, would we do such a thing? No! And once
again No!”

(Shonfeld, op. cit., p.26)

Greenbaum confirms this in his postwar book ‘In Days of Holocaust and
Destruction’:

…When they asked me, couldn’t you give money out of the United Jewish
Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said, ‘NO!’ and I say
again
‘NO!’…one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to
secondary importance.” (ibid., p.26)

Notice that Greenbaum had not only insisted that buying land from the
Arabs was more important than rescuing Jews in Europe, as he admitted
after the war, but he had even called for less to be SAID about the
slaughter, so as not to distract attention from buying land! It was an
explicit
call for a conspiracy of silence.

Greenbaum, whose son was an exceptionally notorious Kapo at Auschwitz,
was not just some insignificant Zionist functionary shooting his mouth off.
He was Kastner’s immediate superior in the Jewish Agency, as head of the
Rescue Committee for European Jewry, and he became a cabinet minister
in Israel’s first Government.

Greenbaum’s policy was the Zionist movement’s policy (Greenbaum was
actually in a minority in the Zionist leadership on this question. The
damning
fact is that he was left in charge of the ‘rescue committee’ after openly
expressing his opposition to the use of Zionist money for rescue
activities).
Kastner was only carrying out an agreed policy.

This policy was summed up in the slogan ‘one goat in Eretz Israel (Hebrew
name for historic Palestine) is worth an entire community in the Diaspora”

As Rabbi Shonfeld comments:

The rescue committee of the Jewish Agency falsely bore the name ‘rescue’.
It would be more appropriate to call it the Committee for Covering Up,
Ignoring and Silencing…the thoughts of Zionist officials and especially
the
chairman, Greenbaum, were steeped in plots and schemes to use the
holocaust and its consequences to build up the national home and to
realize the demands for establishing a Jewish State.” (Shonfeld, op.cit.,
p.
56)

This attitude was further demonstrated in a letter from Nathan Schwalb,
representative of the Jewish Agency in Switzerland, to the Rescue
Committee for Czech Jewry:

Since we have the opportunity of this courier, we are writing to the group
that they must always remember that matter which is the most important,
which is the main issue that must always be before our eyes. After all, the
allies will be victorious. After the victory, they will once again divide
up the
world between the nations as they did at the end of first war. Then they
opened the way for us for the first step and now, as the war ends, we must
do everything so that Eretz Yisroel should become a Jewish state.
Important steps have already been taken in this matter. As to the cry that
comes from your country, we must be aware that all the nations of the
Allies are spilling much blood and if we do not bring sacrifices, with what
will we achieve the right to sit at the table when they make the
distribution
of nations and territories after the war? And so it would be foolish and
impertinent on our side to ask the nations whose blood is being spilled in
order to protect our own blood. Because ‘rak b’dam tihyu lanu haaretz’
(only
through blood will the land be ours). As to yourselves – members of the
group – you will get out, and for this purpose we are providing you with
funds by this courier.” (Ibid., pp. 26-28).

As Rabbi Shonfeld comments:

Here Mr. Schwalb expressed the complete Zionist ideology and stated
clearly and openly the politics of the Zionist leaders in the area of
rescue:
The shedding of Jewish blood in the Diaspora is necessary in order for us
to demand the establishment of a ‘Jewish’ state before a peace
commission. Money will be sent to save a group of ‘chalutzim’ (pioneers,
while the remainder of Czech Jewry must resign itself to annihilation in
the
Auschwitz crematoria.” (Ibid., p. 28)

Suppressing the News

There is no doubt about the fact that the Zionist leadership kept quiet
about
the Holocaust while it was going on. Kastner was able to excuse his own
silence about Auschwitz by telling the Court that other Jewish Agency
representatives suppressed the news he sent out while negotiations
proceeded:

I learned that the Jewish Agency and Joint Distribution Committee
representatives in Switzerland, Moshe Shwalb and Saly Mayer, did not
give out information to the press about the mass killings. They failed to
give the press the news I sent from Budapest. I sent cables also to the
Istanbul Rescue Committee (of the Jewish Agency). They were also kept
secret from the press. I informed them almost daily by cables about the
pace of the extermination. My cables were never published
anywhere.”(Hecht, op. cit., p.91).

Indeed, as Ben Hecht explains:

There will be many witnesses to testify about this silence during
Greenwald’s trial, among them Professor Aktzin, dean of the Law Faculty of
the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. I quote from the trial record:

‘Tamir: Is it true that the Joint Distribution Committee and the Jewish
Agency did suppress the news of the extermination in the United States up
to and through 1941?

“Professor Aktzin: The Zionists, Jewish Agency and Joint Distribution
Committee did refrain from publicizing in the American press the massacre
of Jews.’

While the war was still on in 1945, a Jewish mission of survivors from
Poland came to the annual meeting of the World Jewish Congress. They
came with accusations, and the leaders of the Jewish Congress listened
stoically to their plaint. The survivors from Poland accused these leaders
of
Zion of having failed to arouse the nations of the world to the fact that
the
Jews were being exterminated. The mission accused the leaders of Jewry
of having neglected practical possibilities of rescue and help. The leaders
stated that the omissions were the result of a deliberate decision. They
offered as explanation ‘the opinion of the executive board was that it was
inadvisable because of own diplomatic ties with these governments’ (Of the
Free World). (ibid., pp. 92-3).

Greenbaum justified the Zionist leaders policy of hiding the facts about
the
Holocaust from the public, in a speech he made at Sokolov House on 1
January 1964. He said:

Whoever is building the homeland and is battling for the very existence of
the homeland, is excused from knowing; for he has another, greater
obligation.” (Shonfeld, op.cit, p.79)

Thus after the war too, Greenbaum reaffirms that the Holocaust had to be
covered up because the knowledge that European Jewry was being
exterminated would have distracted attention from the more important
question of building a Jewish State in Palestine. This was also the
occasion
on which Greenbaum produced another gem:

It would have been worthwhile to sacrifice another million Jews for the
glory of the Warsaw Ghetto revolt” (ibid., p.79)

Zionist Leaders Admit Inactivity

Despite the popular impression, Zionist leaders do not seriously contest
that
they were inactive during the holocaust. Here is Dr. Nahum Goldmann,
President of the World Jewish Congress speaking at a commemorative
meeting on 4 March, 1962:

There is no doubt that future Jewish history will judge the generation of
the
Holocaust which lived in free lands as guilty. It will accuse it of failing
to
adequately prepare for the Nazi danger in its beginning stages, and of not
daring to fight desperately the annihilation in this period. I do not know
whether, in the time of the war, the Allies could have prevented the death
of millions of Jews. But there is no doubt in my heart that it was possible
to
save tens of thousands of Jews with active, daring measures by the
democratic governments. But most of the responsibility lies upon us, due to
our self-satisfaction with requests and routine demands and to the fact
that
groups of Jews did not have enough courage to pressure the democratic
governments with dramatic means and motivate them to act drastically. I
will never forget the day on which a telegram from the Warsaw ghetto was
delivered to me, it was addressed to Rabbi Stephen Wise and to myself.
We were asked why Jewish leaders in America do not protest day and
night on the stairs of the White House until the President orders the
bombing of the concentration camps and the railway tracks leading to them.
We did not do so because the majority of Jewish leaders then were of the
opinion that they should not interfere with the free world’s war effort
against
the Nazis with stormy protests. Therefore we should not transfer the guilt
to
those who suffered and paid with their lives. If there is a basis to the
historical ‘I accuse’, let us have the courage now to direct it against
that
part of the generation which was lucky enough to be outside of the Nazi
domination and did not fulfil its obligation toward the millions killed.”
(reported in the Israeli daily paper Davar, 22 April 1964).

While admitting most of the responsibility for the deaths of tens of
thousands, if not millions of Jews who could have been saved, Goldmann
tries to spread the blame around a bit, to include everyone who was not
actually a victim of the holocaust.

As Rabbi Shonfeld comments on this speech:

Today all have regrets: the past Nazis, the good Germans, the merciful
Catholics, the very democratic British and Americans, and even the Jewish
secular leaders. However, as we said, the statute of limitations against
war
crimes is not to apply to the Nazis and their accomplices, whether
non-Jews or Jews…” (Ibid., p. 70)

Actually, Nahum Goldmann received and ignored so many similar messages
during the holocaust that he was bound to become confused after 20 years.

The telegram from the Warsaw ghetto did not refer to bombing
concentration camps and railway tracks.

It came from the ‘Jewish National Committee’ in Warsaw, via the Polish
underground, on 21 January 1943, and simply read as follows:

We notify you of the greatest crime of all times, about the murder of
millions of Jews in Poland. Poised at the brink of the annihilation of the
still surviving Jews, we ask you:

1.Revenge against the Germans
2.Force the Hitlerites to halt the murders
3.Fight for our lives and our honour
4.Contact the neutral countries
5.Rescue 10,000 children through exchange
6.500,000 dollars for purposes of aid

Brothers – the remaining Jews in Poland live with the awareness that in the
most terrible days of our history you did not come to our aid. Respond, at
least in the last days of our life.” (quoted in Lucy Dawidowicz, The War
Against the Jews 1933-45. Penguin Books, Middlesex, 1977, p.403)

Nor did all “that part of the generation which was lucky enough to be
outside
of the Nazi domination” fall to “fulfil its obligation toward the millions
killed”.
Not even all Jewish nationalists took Nahum Goldmann’s Zionist stand that
they “should not interfere with the free world’s war effort against the
Nazis
with stormy protests” (a pathetic lie considering the Zionist decision to
‘fight
the White Paper as though there was no war’ in Palestine).

The Bundist member of the Polish Government in exile (The Bund was a
nationalist, but not Zionist, Social Democratic party of Jewish workers in
Russia and Poland), Artur Zygelbojm committed suicide as a public gesture
to draw attention to what was happening in Warsaw. Despite the Zionist
fears, he has never been accused in ‘interfering with the free world’s war
effort against the Nazis with stormy protests’.

A Message Zionist Leaders Ignored

The message Nahum Goldmann thought he remembered from Warsaw
about bombing concentration camps and railways, actually came more than
a year later from Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandel, a rescue worker
operating in Slovakia. If anyone thinks some 3CR programs speak too
strongly, let them study this message:

May 15, 1944 – In a cave near Lublin. Sholom and Greetings. We send you
this special message to inform you that yesterday the Germans began the
deportation of Jews from Hungary. It is the beginning of deportation of all
the Hungarian Jews.

Every day, twelve thousand souls are being taken off. Four deportations of
forty-five such train-loads move daily out of Hungary. Within twenty-six
days all that area will have been deported.

The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death by cyanide gas. A
great number are dead on arrival. The Germans allow a few of the
strongest to stay alive. Those who are allowed to live are branded with a
number burned into their arm and the Star of David burned into their chest.

Most of these privileged ones die within a month. Others take their place.

Those who go directly from the train to the gas chambers to be suffocated
are not branded. They are completely consumed in the ovens and leave no
evidence behind. These are 95% of each transport.

The dead bodies are burned in specially made ovens. Each oven burns 12
bodies an hour. In February there were 36 ovens burning. We have learned
that more have been built.

Information supplied us by a few eyewitnesses reveals that in February
there were four disposal buildings. We have learned that more have been
built since then.

Formerly, the Germans killed and burned the Jews in the Forest of
Birkenwald, near Auschwitz. Now the killing and burning take place in the
buildings shown on the enclosed map.

In December, the Germans built special trains to transport the Jews of
Hungary to their extermination. This is the schedule of Auschwitz, from
yesterday to the end; twelve thousand Jews – men, women and children,
old men, infants, healthy and sick ones – are to be suffocated daily and
their bones and ashes are to be used to fertilize the German fields.

And you – our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and
you, ministers of all the kingdom – how do you keep silent in the face of
this
great murder ? Silent while thousand on thousands, reaching now to six
million Jews, were murdered. And silent now while tens of thousands are
still being murdered and waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts
cry to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal you are and
murderers too you are, because of the cold-bloodedness of the silence in
which you watch.

Because you sit with folded arms and you do nothing, though you could
stop or delay the murder of Jews at this very hour.

In the name of the blood of the thousands on thousands who have been
murdered we beg, we plead, we cry out and demand that you take action,
that you do deeds now – at once !

That the Ministers of Kingdoms and all the Lands raise a loud and piercing
outcry that must enter the ears of the world, the ears of the German
people,
the ears of the Hungarian people. Let them cry out a warning to the German
murderers. Let them proclaim that they know all that has been done in the
past, and that which is still being done. And the Pope, himself, should
join
in this cry of outrage against the German murderers.

Let this outcry be heard over all the radios and read in all the newspapers
of the world, that unless they stop at once the deportations of Hungary’s
Jews – then will Germany be forever exiled from civilisation.

We ask that the crematoria in Auschwitz be bombed from the air. They are
sharply visible, as shown on the enclosed map.

Such bombing will delay the work of the German murderers.

What is more important – to bomb persistently all the roads leading from
Eastern Hungary to Poland and to bomb persistently the bridges in the
neighborhood of Karpatarus. Drop all other business to get this done.
Remember that one day of your idleness kills twelve thousand souls.

You, our brothers, sons of Israel, are you insane? Don’t you know the Hell
around us? For whom are you saving your money?

How is it that all our pleadings affect you less than the whimpering of a
beggar standing in your doorway? Murderers! Madmen! Who is it that gives
charity? You who toss a few pennies from your safe homes? Or we who
give our blood in the depths of Hell?

There is only one thing that may be said in your exoneration – that you do
not know the truth. This is possible. The villain does his job so shrewdly
that only a few guess the truth. We have told you the truth several times.
Is
it possible that you believe our murderers more than you believe us? May
God open your eyes and give you heart to rescue in these last hours the
remainder.

Most important is that which I write about the bombing of the Auschwitz
Crematoria and the bridges leading to them.

Such bombing can vitally delay the evil work of our slaughterers. And God
who keeps alive the last remnant of Israel will show His mercy for which I
pray. I pray as I write out of the sea of tears of the people of Israel. We
wait
God’s help.

One from the Market who witnesses the woes of his people”

(Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandel, Exhibit of the Defence, no. 36, State
Attorney v. M. Greenwald, District Court, Jerusalem, CC124/53)

During the Kastner case, Menachem Bader of the Jewish Agency was
asked ‘Did you receive this letter from Rabbi Weissmandel?”

He answered:

“Letters like this came to us every day”.

But Auschwitz was not bombed. Despite receiving these heart rending
messages, the Zionist leaders contended themselves with routine requests.
Presumably the point was they could not initiate ‘stormy protests’ without
endangering the ‘deals’ that their representative Kastner was making to
rescue a few Zionists and bring them to Palestine – and from the Zionist
point of view, that was more important.

As well as the myth about not wanting to interfere with the Allied war
effort,
Zionist leaders have attempted to excuse their inactivity during the
holocaust by pretending that they did not really know what was happening
(see, for example, Nahum Goldmann’s speech of Feb.. 1968).

But this excuse is refuted by numerous documents. The whole world knew
about Hitler’s extermination policy after the formal Allied declaration
about it
in December 1942, and the Zionist leaders knew from their own sources
long before then. See for example the speech of Knesset member Chaim
Landau at a symposium held by the Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv on 24 April,
1966 (cited in V. Bolshakov, Anti-Communism, the Main Line of Zionism,
Novosti Press Agency Publ. House, Moscow,, 1972, p.35)

Other Zionists Accuse

The worst that Zionists will admit to, and this interpretation is widely
accepted, is that they deliberately refrained from putting sufficient
pressure
on the Allies to intervene to rescue Jews, because they did not want to
prejudice friendly relations and the future establishment of a State of
Israel
with British and American support.

That admission is damning enough, and has been quite sufficient to justify
the use of the term ‘collaboration’ by Zionist Revisionists who themselves
accept the theory that the conspiracy of silence was in response to British
pressure, and who naturally regard immigration to Palestine as the central
question in rescuing Jews.

A great deal of the exposure of Nazi collaboration by the mainstream
Zionist
leadership was carried out for political reasons by Revisionists who
rightly
say that agreeing to remain silent about the holocaust, while millions were
being murdered, amounts to collaboration with the murderers.

Thus Greenwald’s defence counsel in the Kastner case, Shmuel Tamir,
formerly Minister for Justice in the State of Israel, points out that
Davar, the
official Zionist Labour Federation newspaper, did not publicize the
holocaust
and even ran an editorial saying:

The Nazi denial of extermination has a good foundation. Not as many were
annihilated as was feared.” (quoted in Hecht, op.cit. p.145)

Tamir says:

Until mid-July, six weeks after the killing of twelve thousand a day had
begun, still not a single authoritative word is uttered by the Jewish
Agency
or any Zionist officials that the deportation had started – that already
half a
million were exterminated.

The Jewish Agency had by then the best and most exact informative source
on the fate of the Jews of Hungary, and on the deportation, and there was
no British censorship of such items, as was proven in Court. …For a full
month and a half, Mr. Sharett and the Jewish Agency are knowingly and
wilfully suppressing all the news known to them.” (ibid., p.147)

He continues:

And why this suppression of the dreadful news by Ben-Gurion, Sharett,
Weizmann and all the official leaders of Jewry? Because, had the masses
in Palestine known then what was happening in Hungary, and known then
the stony hearts of their leaders, a storm would have risen in our land.
Power would have fallen out of their hands. And this, it seems, was more
important to them.

There is no other explanation. Therefore I said: “Collaboration here,
parallel to collaboration there. But if the collaboration there has
developed
under German pressure, here we talk of men who lived in the free world,
whose discretion could be more balanced, who were in control of good
youth, wonderful youth, which awaited a command. The fact remains that
the moral and historical responsibility, as far as Jews are concerned, lies
first and foremost on those who lived in the free world. And though I am
here to prove the guilt of Kastner, I say that his responsibility is lesser
than
that of the leaders of our free Jewish world” (ibid., p.148)

Ben Hecht, a supporter of the same Zionist party sums up:

These organizations, these philanthropists, these timorous Jewish lodge
members in Zion, London and America, these Zionist leaders who let their
six million kinsmen burn, choke, hang, without protest, with indifference
and even with a glint of anti-Semitic cunning in their political planning,
I
sum up against them…

…My faith says that nearly all the six million Jews could have been saved
and the horror of our century saved with them – had the powerful American
Jewry alone united in a campaign to save them. And had those Palestine
leaders who stayed mum on the slaughter and were garrulous as geese on
the needs of Zionism in Palestine – had they cried out – would they have
survived as leaders ? Would the British have ousted them, and gutted the
‘dream of Zionism’?

Again, I do not know, I know only that, by my measure, such honorable
human behaviour would have been of deeper worth to the world than a
dozen States of Israel.” (ibid., p. 193)

But the truth is far worse than what Zionists will admit to joining a
conspiracy of silence under British pressure. As will be shown shortly, the
only British pressure was against immigration to Palestine, and it was
Zionists who were exerting pressure on Britain not to rescue Jews from the
holocaust.

A fairly accurate account of Zionist thinking at the time is given by Mapai
leader Eliezer Livneh, expressing his regrets in a column entitled
‘Thoughts
on the Holocaust’ in the newspaper Yedi’ot Aharonot (Shonfeld, op cit.,
pp.24-25):

Our Zionist orientation educated us to see the growing land of Israel as
the
prime goal and the Jewish nation only in relation to its building the land.
With each tragedy befalling the Jews in the Diaspora, we saw the state as
the evident solution. We continued employing this principle even during
the holocaust, saving only those who could be brought to Israel. The
mandate’s limitation on immigration served as a political factor in our
battle
to open the doors to aliya (immigration) and to establishing the state. Our
programs were geared to this aim and for this we were prepared to sacrifice
or endanger lives. Everything outside of this goal, including the rescue of
European Jewry for its own sake, was a secondary goal. ‘If there can be no
people without a country’, Rabbi Weissmandel exclaimed, ‘then surely
there can be no country without a people. And where are the living Jewish
people, if not in Europe?’

The Very Existence of the ‘Jewish Agency’ Helped
the Nazis

As the Revisionist newspaper Herut asks:

How are we to explain the fact, that the leaders of the Jewish Agency and
the chiefs of the Zionist movement in Palestine kept silent? Why didn’t
they
raise their voices? Why didn’t they shout about it over the whole wide
world? Why didn’t they appeal in broadcasts of their ‘secret’ Haganah radio
station to Jews in ghettos, camps and villages to flee to the woods, to
mutiny and fight, to try to save themselves? By silence they collaborated
with the German to no less extent than the scoundrels who provided the
Germans with the death lists. History will yet pronounce its verdict
against
them. Was not the very existence of the Jewish Agency a help for the
Nazis? When history tries the so-called Judenrat and the Jewish police,
she will also condemn the leaders of the Agency and the leaders of the
Zionist movement” (Herut, 25 May 1964, Cited in Bolshakov, op.cit., p.40)

And that really is the verdict of history.

Just as Judge Benjamin Halevi found that the Zionist Jewish Agency’s
‘Relief and Rescue Committee’ in Budapest was a department of the Nazi
SS, alongside the departments for extermination and looting, so we must
find that the very existence of the Jewish Agency (the World Zionist
Organisation) was a help to the Nazis in carrying out and covering up their
crimes.

(excerpted from Nazi-Zionist Collaboration, pamphlet published in 1981 by
BAZO-PS – British Anti-Zionist Organisation/Palestine Solidarity, London)

From [email protected] Tue Oct 15 17:18:44 PDT 1996
Article: 74575 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.total.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: zionism
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:37:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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gopher://www.shamash.org:70/00/holocaust/revisionists/holocaust.oneb.index

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 07:40:18 PDT 1996
Article: 74792 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: zionism
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 23:26:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
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The Destruction of European Jewery

It is often bemoaned by Jews that the “rich of life of European Jewry” was
destroyed by the Nazis. But that destruction was conceived and started
before Hilter was born and continues to this day.
The
architects of this destruction were and are the Zionists
. The Zionists
envisioned a Europe free of Jews, Judenrein if a word can be borrowed.

In
fact the Zionists and the Nazis collaborated in this
destruction
. Even at the height of the reported destruction
by the Nazis, the Zionists worked to prevent Jews from going to
any country other than Palestine. When the Swedish government
considered accepting all Jewish Danes in advance
of the Nazi occupation of Denmark the Zionists lead the
opposition against it.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 07:43:20 PDT 1996
Article: 74794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RAVE REVIEWS FOR SNIVELING LIAR
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 04:43:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:48:43 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>”Jeffrey”, quoting Bradley Smith:
>>
>>>Treblinka survivor Abraham Bomba is talking about the
>>>early gas chambers in the camp:
>>
>>># Bomba: It was not a big room, around twelve feet by
>>># twelve feet.
>>
>>>[…]
>>
>>>And poor old Smith goes on to write later:
>>
>>># You might think that Claude Lanzmann is about to express
>>># some doubt about how Bomba is blocking out this scene for
>>># him. Sixty to seventy naked women in the 12-square-foot room.
>>
>>>Of course, it’s 144 = 12*12, not 12. But why should a “leading
>>>revisionist scholar” know third-grade arithmetic?

>>Look at the trivial point Keren is making.

>You mean you could figure out what point Mr.Keren was trying to make?

Give him at least some credit. It is exactly the second calculation the CS
major has posted in nearly four years. At least it shows his education was
no completely in vain. Of course got the input numbers completely wrong in
the first calcualtion but then, he was trying to reconcile two conflicting
truths in the same calculation. That he failed is the fate of a
holohugger.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 07:43:21 PDT 1996
Article: 74800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Diesel Gas Chambers: The Reality Explored
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 04:51:39 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 08:32:41 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Tommy, I did post a reply, and you can look up the web page.

>Two key points:

>1) A scientific paper proves that it is very easy to tune a diesel
> so that its exhaust contains hardly any oxygen, and up to 6
> percent CO. This is much higher than the lethal concentration.

>(“The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”, by
>J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
>Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105).

>2) Another scientific paper proves that when animals were exposed
> to the exhaust of a tiny diesel engine (6 BHP) in a closed
> chamber, they died.

>(“The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different
>Running Conditions”, by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial
>Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p. 47-55).

>All this proves, very clearly, that the “revisionist” claims about
>”difficulties” (or the impossibility of) killing people with diesel
>exhaust, are totally and completely idiotic. That’s it.

Been there, done that. You post clear nonsense WHEN YOU KNOW there is an
eyewitness to the boilers and the piping that steamed people to death. You
fucking Nazi. You know they were steamed to death and you lie about it.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 07:43:22 PDT 1996
Article: 74801 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It is always under revision – holo1016.zip (1/1)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:48:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 2127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

begin 644 holo1016.zip
[2150 lines of encoded binary removed]
end

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 07:43:24 PDT 1996
Article: 74795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (I ain’t got no home)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:50:35 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Oct 1996 09:03:59 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>> The following photos are in

>(Danny’s horror collection snipped)
>>
>>

>>
>> -Danny Keren.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>The photos only prove people died. Danny
>seems to be so fond of these pictures, like a
>baseball card collection. What the pictures
>do not show is that typhus was raging through
>out the camp and this disease is no respecter
>of persons.

He is in love with death. He is fascinated by it. The more horrible the
more fascination it holds for him, the more his eyes glaze over when the
thinks about it.

The corellaries of pain and suffering are erotic for him.

Can you otherwise imagine why a person would concentrate so much upon such
pictures when there is rarely a thing in them that is supported by the
caption he creates for them?

He is very sick. Were he Catholic he could join a monastery that meditates
upon the lives of the saints for all their lives. As it is, he has to act
out his sado-masochistic sex life in public.

It is his only relief.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 08:07:51 PDT 1996
Article: 74814 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Singing like a frog)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: YFE and oaths
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 06:28:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Oct 1996 00:46:27 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
>> [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>
>> YFE claims Giwer is a criminal. He omits that Giwer’s e-mail was sent in reply to
>YFE’s
>> unsolicited e-mail. Omission is lying.

> That is a lie, Matty poo, I requested that you stop sending me e-mail.
>The response was “I am tired of your shit. Fuck off.” It was followed by another
>bit of your anti-Semitic venom. That’s one of the reasons why Netcom suspended
>you.

> You criminally harassed me and my family, Matty poo. You a criminal.

But we really love you, all of us, out here if usenetland. If tweren’t for
Jews like you, we might all think the Grand Kleegle was making it up.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 16 08:08:56 PDT 1996
Article: 74796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: antisemitism
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:19:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:18:50 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Gord McFee wrote:
>>
>> In message [email protected] (Mark
>> Van Alstine)Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:42:55 -0800 writes:
>> :>
>> :>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord
>> :>McFee) wrote:
>> :>
>> :>> In message
>> :>> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi)Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:21:42 -0700
>> :>> writes:
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>Look who’s back. What, couldn’t scam another free month on AOL ?
>> :>>
>> :>> No. Giwer has a massive list of ISPs.
>> :>
>> :>At the rate the gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch is getting his ass booted from
>> :>ISP’s he _needs_ a massive list of them!
>>
>> You got that right! But don’t forget. The Giwer-liar troll said recently
>> that he will soon be his own ISP. Couldn’t be another lie, could it?
>>
>No–he got it right. ISP–“Insipid Social Parasite”

Watch it bitch, or I will turn you into a very large lampshade, many very
large lampshades or one circus tent.

From [email protected] Sun Oct 27 01:10:28 PDT 1996
Article: 77211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More honey from the lips of Marduk.
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 05:22:56 GMT
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-37.gate.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hardwire wrote:

:Michael P. Stein wrote:

:> The fact that you are posting from Matt Giwer’s old ISP has not
:> escaped my notice, BTW.

:What??! What is it with all of your fascination about the ISP I’m
:posting from??

:If I were posting from Worldnet, Netcom, or any other site that Giwer
:had been too, would you be this amazed by it? Is this guilt by
:association on a grand scale?

:Oh, and do tell Oh Great and Powerful one. Since it’s “not escaped”
:your attention, what do you plan to do about it? Is this a
:not-to-subtle threat?

If you do not come to agree with them, they will begin to hassle Combase about you. It
is part of the strategy. After people have been driven off, they proclaim victory.

From [email protected] Sun Oct 27 11:37:23 PST 1996
Article: 77284 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Tale of six Gassings
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 06:36:28 GMT
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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A Tale of six Gassings

A Tale of six Gassings

      Another former inmate [of
Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as
an eleven-year-old in the camp.

      In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was
sent to the [Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The
newspaper account went on to relate: “Each time he survived,
watching with horror as many of the women and children gassed
with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t know how
he was able to survive.”

      In an effort to explain the
miracle, Peer mused: “Maybe children resist better, I don’t
know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and
sister, who were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow
survived internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and
again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

I mean is there any more absurd witness than this? Certainly
there is. I simply have not added them yet.

From [email protected] Sun Oct 27 11:55:42 PST 1996
Article: 77276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!jussieu.fr!oleane!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Whites Are Good Writers
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 09:31:38 GMT
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

:In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

:Speaking of dead meat…
:
:Mr. Giwer, if you’re so all-powerful and strong, why are you not on Combase
:any longer?

:Why are you not on Netcom any longer?
:
:Why are you not on Worldnet.att.net any longer?
:
:Why are you pretending to be “Danny Li” instead of proudly presenting your
:psychotic self under your REAL name?
:
:You’ve been reduced to this sad and pathetic little pretense yet again, Mr.
:Giwer.
:
:You are the laughingstock of the world.
:
:And the worst enemy of the deniers. Because every time you post, more
:people realize how stupid you – and your claims – are.
:
:Have fun, Mr. Giwer!

I intend to have fun. My point is your false and malicious complaints.
=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Mon Oct 28 23:05:39 PST 1996
Article: 77603 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The “revisionist” retreat
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:35:42 GMT
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
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[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>Hey, Mr. Giwer:
>
>Why aren’t you using your real name? Your relatives rise up against you?

Do you have a problem with my using a handle? Or were you given the task of
sorting out what I post for pirating?

=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:02 PST 1996
Article: 77642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news.infonex.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:53:56 -0800
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
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+————————————————————————+
| As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
| from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
| script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
| to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
| If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
| will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
| maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
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+————————————————————————+

[email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>Well said.

>Please be aware that Mr. Strom is a big “Mucky-Muck” in the National
>Alliance, America’s pre-eminent neo-Nazi organization. Headed by Dr.
>William L. Pierce and headquartered in West Virginia, the National
>Alliance is believed to be connected, at least loosely, to the
>Oklahoma City Bombing, as well as the antics of Bob Matthew’s
>paramilitary terrorist group The Order.

I would suggest you get your evidence of this connection to the FBI immediately.
Obviously you know something they do not. It is obviously your civic duty to

=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:03 PST 1996
Article: 77643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news.infonex.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:53:54 -0800
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
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Sender: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
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+————————————————————————+
| As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
| from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
| script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
| to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
| If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
| will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
| maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
| “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
+————————————————————————+

Kimberley Ahlf wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Andrew Mathis wrote:

>> Well said.
>>
>> Please be aware that Mr. Strom is a big “Mucky-Muck” in the National
>> Alliance, America’s pre-eminent neo-Nazi organization.

>You’re kidding?! You mean, little ‘ol *me* kicked the fanny of a *real*
>bigwhig Nazi a few months back when I debated Strom and a few of his
>cronies on the use of the book _The Bell Curve_ in relating ‘race’ to IQ?!

>You should have heard the virtual silence when one of _The Bell Curve_’s
>resident authorities here on the net, a man the racists were counting on
>to make their case, said outright in response to one of my posts that the
>book in no way equates IQ with any genetic ‘racial’ characteristics.
>Kenny ‘A’ just disappeared from the discussion after that. (Racists seem
>to lose interest in debates awfully fast.)

Either the person who said that was wrong or you misread it. The authors
specifically discuss estimates that race is a 30-40% contributor to IQ. The
authors devote considerable discussion to the differences between the races and
how attempts have been made to make all else equal and the differences remain
and are constant and are not due to any outside factor that can be determined.

I suggest you read the book some time. The jewish authors make the case for
race as a contributor to IQ and include the jewish race in their discussion.
(Even though, as we all know, there is no jewish race. Stupid jewish authors!)

=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:04 PST 1996
Article: 77646 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news.infonex.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:54:01 -0800
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
X-Original-From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
Sender: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
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Supersedes: <[email protected]>
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+————————————————————————+
| As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
| from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
| script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
| to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
| If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
| will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
| maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
| “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
+————————————————————————+

Greg Raven wrote:

>Fatbroad! (OFB) wrote:
>>
>> In loving memory of Stephanie Brumlik
>>
>> (Originally published on GEnie, Category 15, Topic 4, Message 907,
>> Fri Mar 27, 1992, POOH.BAH, at 19:26 EST)
>>
>> [The IHR’s Greg Raven said]
>>
>> “virtually everything I had been told about the Holocaust
>> story … in the classroom, on the television, in books …
>> was in error. I can’t think of any other topic about which
>> that can be said.”
>>
>> “How many other historical events have you investigated on your own?
>> Perhaps ‘virtually everything’ you have been told about other events is
>> “in error” but you are not aware of that.

>Perhaps so. That is why Holocaust extermination stories MUST be reexamined, right along with everything else we are taught
>or told.

I was more impressed with the silly shit about Columbus that she thought was
something earthshaking. It was old in gradeschool in the 50s. Perhaps she went
to a public gradeschool.

=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:05 PST 1996
Article: 77656 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news.infonex.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:54:02 -0800
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
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Sender: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
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+————————————————————————+
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| from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
| script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
| to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
| If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
| will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
| maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
| “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
+————————————————————————+

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16 May 1942
>[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
>———————————————————————-

The strange Case of Mobile<br /> Gassing

The strange case of Mobile
Gassing

I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers
by putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small
van and two on each side of the large vans, such as one often
sees on farm houses in the country.

Here we have the technique of camoflauging trucks as farm houses
by the clever trick of adding window shutters. No one would ever
guess they were not really farm houses. Why even the Jellystone
park ranger was taken in.

The vans became so well known, that not only the authorities but
also the civilian population called the van “death van”, as soon
as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the van
cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even
camouflaged…

Amazing that the camoflauge as a farm house failed. Maybe people
noticed them moving. Maybe it was the wheels. Maybe it was
engine and driver’s seat on one end.

Even Mr. Ranger would catch on.

Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the
men were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so
they should not suffer damage to their health by the gas which
eventually would escape.

Ah yes, those stupid Germans had to be warned about the dangers
of engine exhaust. Maybe Mr. Ranger had to tell them the rules.
But of course it is clear here that the author, whoever he is,
has something in mind other than engine exhaust.

I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following to
your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the
application of gas done by their own men.

What “gas” is engine exhaust? Obviously a confusion between
Zyklon B and carbon monoxide. Or could it possibly be that the
“witness” had no idea how the things worked?

I brought to the attention of those S.K (Special Kommando)

There we go again. Sonderkommando is one word. SK not S.K would
be the abbreviation. Another incorrect translation into German
by whoever wrote this.

concerned the immense psychological injuries and damages involved
to their health that this work can have for those men, even if
not immediately, at least later on. The men complained to me
about head-aches which appeared after each unloading.

Amazing that they would complain but a trivial amount of engine
exhaust that would disappear in seconds of opening the doors.
The concentration could never be more than in the engine exhaust
itself. They must be talking about something other than engine
exhaust. Perhaps it was Eastern Front Syndrome?

Nevertheless they don’t want to change the orders, because they
are afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune
moment to flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request
orders to be issued accordingly.

Orders for what? Trivial amounts of engine exhaust?

The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order
to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the
accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to
be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing
off as was planned. My directions have now proved that by correct
adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners
fall asleep peacefully. Distorted faces and excretions, such as
could be seen before, are no longer noticed.

Here we have it. Not only the accelerator but “correct
adjustment of the levers” matters. What levers? What gas? Why
is the accelerator involved? Is it a reference to the spark and
choke levers? But when the engine is warmed up, it stalls out if
improperly set. An engine at high RPM in neutral?

But of course, holohuggers find this credible. They
do not find the slightest thing unusual in this.


Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16
May 1942, Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S
Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418

=====
Niz-kor made this happen
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:06 PST 1996
Article: 77683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!jupiter.ny.simply.com!flesh.fly.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 07:35:54 -0800
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
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Sender: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
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+————————————————————————+
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| script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
| to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
| If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
| will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
| maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
| “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
+————————————————————————+

Is there a secret jewish group controlling the<br /> United States?

Is there a secret jewish group controlling the United States?

      Many people are outraged over
what they call ZOG, the Zionist Occupied Government. When asked
who is a member of this secret jewish organization, of course
they can not answer as there is no secret jewish organizations.
There are many of them and they are very public. They are hiding
out in the open.

The organizations


      The most influential one is
AIPAC, American Israel Public Affairs Committee, that is in fact
a political action committee that lobbies congress on behalf of
the state of Israel. Although it is clearly a lobby for a
foreign power it is not registered as such as required by law.
This failure to register falls into a legal area that no one
wishes to challenge, that to be a lobbyist financing must come
>from the other country although the law makes no such
distinction.

      As for evidence, the US has
lost tens of billions of dollars in foreign arms sales, twenty
billion in 1990 alone when Israel did not want the US to sell to
Saudi Arabia, solely from the perceived threat to Israeli
hegemony over the Middle East. As the most powerful military
state in the Middle East, and as the only nuclear power in the
Middle East, Israel has a say in everything that happens in the
region. AIPAC lead the lobbying against these arms sales solely
for the benefit of Israel to remain the most powerful nation in
the region.

      Consider the Gulf War when
Israel threatened to take care of Iraq single-handed. Israel had
no credible conventional capability to do that. The threat was
clearly to use nuclear weapons against Iraq and the threat was to
the US to deal with Iraq or they would.

      And the threat received
attention in the US as both Israel and the US knew that Israel
would be able to force the US to condone the use of nuclear
weapons after the fact. And that would clearly change to the
world the image of the US from protector of Israel to lapdog of
Israel. But of course the truth is that the world knows the US
is the lapdog of Israel, it is the American people who do not
know it.

      The political power of AIPAC is
at the national level. There are numerous local organizations
that hold power at the local level. [material to be added]

      Put into context, any
organization that provides any form a political support to any
candidate is a political force for every politician to reckon
with in his actions in office and for election. Jewish
organizations that provide political support to candidates are no
different from any other organzition that provides any form of
political support. The difference is that jewish support is to
support a foreign government whose interests are in conflict with
those of the US.

      For example, peace in the
Middle East is in the interests of the United States. Israel is
the greatest obstacle to peace in the Middle East with its
nuclear weapons and insatiable desire for the lands of others.
Its facile use of deadly force against the innocent while
shielded by the US is contrary to the interests of the US.

      Then end of Israeli occupation
of the West Bank and of Jerusalem is in the interests of peace.
No jewish political party in Israel has any serious intention of
either happening.

The news media


      Despite attempts to laugh it off
or ridicule it the US news media is another controlling
influence. When Israel censored the news during the Intifada
reporters from the free nations were up in arms over it. US news
coverage was of the objections of the other nations’s reporters
and I saw exactly one perfunctory objection by a US journalist
aired.

      More recently when the tunnel
incident caused rioting there was exactly one run on one US
station (CNN) of a helicopter gunship machinegunning rioters.
This machinegunning was mentioned on CNN only by Mona Charen and
was discussed on no US political talk show.

      A few months before this when
the Israelis shelled the Qana refugee camp, not one US station
aired the clear evidence that it was deliberate.

      No establishemen US news outlet
will run news that can be construed as negative towards Israel
without having an Israeli spokesman to comment upon the news.
What? I thought this was the news, not what you are supposed to
think about it. Have you ever heard a Palestinian spokesman
comment upon a news report that is negative towards a Palestinian
action? Yet this is standard procedure in negative and only
negative news about Israel.

      [add material on newspapers]

The entertainment media


      An unbiased observer of the
entertainment industry, the proverbial visitor from Mars, that
the country is about 60% jewish. You would also get the
impression that this 60% are the finest and noblest people in the
country without exception.

      On the other hand you would
have the impression that the Christian population contains all of
the bad guys including their religious leaders. Priest and
ministers can be fornicators and homosexual (knowing they
themselves consider it a sin) but never rabbis. You would find
every degree and type of negative christian stereotype; you would
never find a jewish stereotype. In fact since Bing Crosby was a
priest it is hard to think of a positive image.

      The predominance of explicite
or implicite jewish characters in the movies and TV is hardly a
secret. In TV sitcoms, even space alien characters have been
implicitely jewish to the result of some clever punch line as in
the show Mork and Mindie.

      From Hollywood we have a take
off on Moses, Wholely Moses. While it was clearly a
joke upon the entire Moses story, in the background it had to
have a “real” Moses so as to support the Hebrew myth of a Moses.
Yet we have movies that clearly question the christian legend of
Jesus. Why the difference?

      And when we have movies about
Israel is there ever a story that touches even remotely upon
anything negative? Is there a mention of the Zionist/Nazi
collaboration? Is there the slightest mention of the displaced
Palestinians?

      If you have listened to the
pure talk shows without a political bent you may have noticed
that it is not uncommon for the discussion to turn, out of no
where, to the joys of being jewish. Some times it is sequed by
the host; some times the guest just starts gushing. But in any
such show there is one thing to keep firmly in mind, not one
thing is spontanious.

      Everything is planned. It is
the intention of the guests and hosts to bring up exactly what is
talked about. The only question is whether or not the host is
involved.

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •       Thus we have clear examples of
    what we all know and what Israel knows,
    that the government and the media of the United States are in the
    hands of Israel. There is no question that it is true and that
    it works for the benefit of Israel and against the United States.
    The only question is why we permit it to happen.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 08:54:07 PST 1996
    Article: 77684 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!jupiter.ny.simply.com!flesh.fly.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 07:35:57 -0800
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    X-Original-From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
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    +————————————————————————+
    | As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
    | from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
    | script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
    | to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
    | If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
    | will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
    | maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
    | “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
    +————————————————————————+

    [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

    >In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

    >>
    >>A judge does not know what kosher is. Even the Jews do not what kosher as they have

    >A judge doesn’t have to know.

    >All that he needs to know is: Did the owners of a specific mark
    >authorise its use?

    >Like the UL mark or the FDA mark.

    >That judge won’t even ask if it meets the standard.

    >He won’t even entertain a defense of “it meets and exceeds their
    >standard, your honour.”

    However, as you note, this is a civil case of trademark infringement. It is not
    a criminal matter.

    Criminal law can only apply if the misuse could lead materially harm the public,
    such as a false UL label for a substandard product but the danger would have to
    be demonstrated and “meets or exceeds” is a valid. This could apply on products
    that pass the Canadian equivalent of UL are relabeled for sale in the US.

    As there is no way for anyone to be harmed by eating non-kosher food, the
    government does not have a dog in that fight.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 11:17:09 PST 1996
    Article: 77696 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.gil.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:32:26 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 135
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    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    >https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

    >Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

    >The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.

    >-Danny Keren.

    ========
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: truer than true testimony
    From: [email protected]
    Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:57:02 GMT

    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    >[email protected]om (Matt Giwer) writes:
    ># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
    >
    >## I can’t find anywhere in Dr. Bendel’s testimony where he says
    >## that it took one night to kill the 80,000 people. This may well
    >## be another “revisionist” distortion.
    >
    ># What you SAY you can not find is not my concern.
    >
    >No, you poor, mentally retarded nazi-boy. It *is* your concern,
    >because, if you claim a piece of testimony exists, you have
    >to present it. If you can’t, it should be of concern to you.

    I did present. What did you think you were reading?

    >## The Nazis did burn people alive. Even Al Baron admits to that.
    >
    ># I do not give a rat’s ass what he accepts and he does not care
    ># what I accept.
    >
    >Ohmegosh. Giwer and Baron doing battle.

    Not in the least. There is no orthodoxy required on this side of the
    fence.

    >## We have the photographic evidence of this taking place in
    >## Thekla and Gardelegen.
    >
    ># If you have photographic evidence of people being burned alive
    ># it isd quite amazing you have not posted it. But I am not amaze
    ># as I know you have no such photographs.
    >
    >ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/miscellany/dkeren-incoming/
    >
    >Photos are
    >
    >Gardelegen1.jpg Gardelegen3.jpg Thekla2.jpg Gardelegen2.jpg
    >Thekla1.jpg Thekla3.jpg

    This is a fine collection.

    Gardelegen1.jpg

    12 (?) people walking. No signs of fire. Appear to be carrying
    stretchers.

    Gardelegen3.jpg

    Sitting man leaning on brickwork. No signs of fire, Extremities
    intact. Left hand appears to be holding plant stems. (badly solarized
    print)

    Thekla2.jpg

    Decomposed bodies along a wire fence with unburned bushes on the other
    side of the fence.

    Gardelegen2.jpg

    Three men looking at body inside wooden building. Right extremities
    intact. Wooden building shows no sign of fire damage.

    Thekla1.jpg

    Two men looking at two badly decomposed bodies on flat ground. No
    indications of fire.

    Thekla3.jpg

    Three bodies on flat ground, one wearing a shoe. Shoe intact, not
    burned.

    Did you give me the right list of pictures? Want to try again?

    Or did you read the captions and uncritically look at the pictures and
    fail to notice there are no signs of fire?

    In any event, you have no pictures of anyone being killed by being
    burned alive?

    ========
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT

    4/30/81:
    The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
    Rachel Patron, who
    claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
    Soviets during WWII (and
    you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis). Ms.
    Patron goes on to
    state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to Poland
    she found a shed full of
    soap made from Jews. Isn’t it interesting how these Holocaust
    survivors can remember
    seeing things that never existed?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 14:13:46 PST 1996
    Article: 77707 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!news.infonex.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:53:58 -0800
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    X-Original-From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
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    +————————————————————————+
    | As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
    | from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
    | script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
    | to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
    | If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
    | will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
    | maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
    | “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
    +————————————————————————+

    [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

    >>[email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

    >>>Please be aware that Mr. Strom is a big “Mucky-Muck” in the National
    >>>Alliance, America’s pre-eminent neo-Nazi organization. Headed by Dr.
    >>>William L. Pierce and headquartered in West Virginia, the National
    >>>Alliance is believed to be connected, at least loosely, to the
    >>>Oklahoma City Bombing, as well as the antics of Bob Matthew’s
    >>>paramilitary terrorist group The Order.

    >>Believed to be connected the OKC bombing? By whom, lying Jews like yourself? That
    >>indicates very little of course.

    >I’d suggest you read *The Turner Diaries* and read the bombing of a
    >Federal building in that book, but I believe your reading
    >comprehension is rather low.

    I once read a book about a bomb on an airliner.

    If you consider that to be evidence it is no wonder you are taken in by the
    holocaust stories.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 16:53:52 PST 1996
    Article: 77724 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (oneat twentythree)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
    Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:25:24 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 61
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    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    :Andrew Allen “[email protected] (Ceacaa)” writes:

    :# Remember that Kremas II and III at Birkenau were
    :# built in March and June of 1943 respectively.

    :Can you tell the difference between “built” and
    :”completed”?

    :# The question becomes, why spend two million Reichmarks
    :# and six months on building two Crematorium which only
    :# increases your “capacity” 25% when it is possible to reach
    :# the same end immediately (and for free) by digging another
    :# pit?

    :Yet again, you’re confusing the price of the whole
    :crematorium with the price of the cremation furnaces,
    :which was much lower. I posted the figures yesterday,
    :Why did you ignore them?

    :The gas chambers had to be built anyway, no matter how
    :the corpses were to be burned.

    And again you deliberately misrepresent even the holohugger version of the story. The
    currently presumed gas chambers were separate structures, not needing Kremas. Thus, you
    know that the entire cost of the Kremas was an additional expense. Look at the aerial
    photos Nizkor carries to verify what I have said.

    Thus the comparison is between the cost of an open pit and an entire crematorium with
    the ovens. You can put an incinerator some place in between there for a cost
    comparison.

    :# In that context the capcity of the two Krema is in-line
    :# with the total need of the Auschwitz Birkenau complex

    :No, it’s about 20 times higher. Basic arithmetic. Nothing
    :you can do about it. You can’t “revise” the laws of
    :arithmetic. I know Bradley Smith tried. It didn’t work.

    But you can certainly use the wrong size in you supposed calculations as you have done
    in the one and only calculation a PhD CS type was capable of.

    But getting back to the math, the current total of Birkenau is about the same as the
    other camps and over a longer time frame.

    :# Revisionists claim that Kremas II and III were
    :# built as a result of the typhus outbreaks in
    :# Auschwitz/Birkenau in the summers of 1941 and 1942.

    :This is ridiculous. No one builds so many crematoriums
    :unless he’s expecting huge numbers of people to die,
    :over a long period of time.

    As has been explained to you, the design is for the peak capacity. And as above the
    total number is about the same as the rest over a longer period of time so there was no
    reason to do more than a pit. And according to the holohuggers Treblinka had a capacity
    of at least 8000 per day with the open pit BBQ method. But then, they used a special
    method that did not need fuel to do the burning.

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 16:54:25 PST 1996
    Article: 77720 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.mbnet.mb.ca!news.escape.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.gil.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Höss’s enterprising subordinate Hauptsturmführer Fritsch
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:06:20 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
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    [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    >> I do wish to thank you for a fourth contradictory discussion of
    >the “discovery” of the
    >> utility of Z-B. Would you like a credit line?
    >
    >Why, Mr. Giwer?
    >
    >Why should anyone give you the time of day anymore?
    >
    >You flushed your own credibility down the toilet months ago.
    >
    >You are a pathetic, impotent, little man.

    Then why all the attention?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 19:03:46 PST 1996
    Article: 77737 of alt.revisionism
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    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:54:07 -0800
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    X-Original-From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Sender: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
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    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:77737 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:616

    +————————————————————————+
    | As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
    | from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
    | script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
    | to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
    | If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
    | will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
    | maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
    | “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
    +————————————————————————+

    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    >https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

    >Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

    >The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.

    >-Danny Keren.

    ========
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: truer than true testimony
    From: [email protected]
    Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:57:02 GMT

    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
    ># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
    >
    >## I can’t find anywhere in Dr. Bendel’s testimony where he says
    >## that it took one night to kill the 80,000 people. This may well
    >## be another “revisionist” distortion.
    >
    ># What you SAY you can not find is not my concern.
    >
    >No, you poor, mentally retarded nazi-boy. It *is* your concern,
    >because, if you claim a piece of testimony exists, you have
    >to present it. If you can’t, it should be of concern to you.

    I did present. What did you think you were reading?

    >## The Nazis did burn people alive. Even Al Baron admits to that.
    >
    ># I do not give a rat’s ass what he accepts and he does not care
    ># what I accept.
    >
    >Ohmegosh. Giwer and Baron doing battle.

    Not in the least. There is no orthodoxy required on this side of the
    fence.

    >## We have the photographic evidence of this taking place in
    >## Thekla and Gardelegen.
    >
    ># If you have photographic evidence of people being burned alive
    ># it isd quite amazing you have not posted it. But I am not amaze
    ># as I know you have no such photographs.
    >
    >ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/miscellany/dkeren-incoming/
    >
    >Photos are
    >
    >Gardelegen1.jpg Gardelegen3.jpg Thekla2.jpg Gardelegen2.jpg
    >Thekla1.jpg Thekla3.jpg

    This is a fine collection.

    Gardelegen1.jpg

    12 (?) people walking. No signs of fire. Appear to be carrying
    stretchers.

    Gardelegen3.jpg

    Sitting man leaning on brickwork. No signs of fire, Extremities
    intact. Left hand appears to be holding plant stems. (badly solarized
    print)

    Thekla2.jpg

    Decomposed bodies along a wire fence with unburned bushes on the other
    side of the fence.

    Gardelegen2.jpg

    Three men looking at body inside wooden building. Right extremities
    intact. Wooden building shows no sign of fire damage.

    Thekla1.jpg

    Two men looking at two badly decomposed bodies on flat ground. No
    indications of fire.

    Thekla3.jpg

    Three bodies on flat ground, one wearing a shoe. Shoe intact, not
    burned.

    Did you give me the right list of pictures? Want to try again?

    Or did you read the captions and uncritically look at the pictures and
    fail to notice there are no signs of fire?

    In any event, you have no pictures of anyone being killed by being
    burned alive?

    ========
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT

    4/30/81:
    The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
    Rachel Patron, who
    claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
    Soviets during WWII (and
    you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis). Ms.
    Patron goes on to
    state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to Poland
    she found a shed full of
    soap made from Jews. Isn’t it interesting how these Holocaust
    survivors can remember
    seeing things that never existed?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 19:03:48 PST 1996
    Article: 77738 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!jupiter.ny.simply.com!flesh.fly.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:54:06 -0800
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    X-Original-From: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
    Sender: [email protected] (Thisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
    X-Original-Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    References: <[email protected]>
    Organization: Giwerbot ™
    X-Original-Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Subject: Re: One More Time: Holocaust Proof
    Supersedes: <[email protected]>
    Message-ID:
    X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:15:56 GMT
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    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:77738 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:617

    +————————————————————————+
    | As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
    | from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
    | script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
    | to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
    | If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
    | will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
    | maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
    | “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
    +————————————————————————+

    [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

    >Greg Raven writes:

    ># We know the delausing chambers existed, and we know how
    ># they functioned. We are still awaiting proof of the
    ># existence of a Nazi gas chamber for homicidal purposes.

    >Numerous such proofs were presented, and are posted here
    >every day. They include forensic evidence, documents,
    >and witness testimony.

    Still making the absurd claim that there is evidence of death by gassing when an
    examination of YFE’s claimed source includes to autopsy reports whatsoever.

    Give it up arithmetic major.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Tue Oct 29 19:04:10 PST 1996
    Article: 77733 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.datalytics.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: One More Time: Holocaust Proof
    Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:56:39 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 23
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
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    [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    >>
    >> Give it up arithmetic major.

    >Pathetic, isn’t it, that Mr. Giwer has lost so much credibility that he
    >can’t even show his own name in public anymore?
    >

    You wish.
    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 07:31:25 PST 1996
    Article: 77776 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.datalytics.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Nazis: The Next Generation
    Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:55:59 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 51
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]on.net> <[email protected]>
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    [email protected] (Schultzie) wrote:

    >>At times throughout history Jews have changed their names or hid their Jewishness for
    >>self-protection. For the same reason revisionists change their names. If you defend
    >>Jews as brave for doing so and condemn revisionists as cowards you indeed employ a double
    >>standard.

    >>Kurt Stele

    >Kurt Stele seems to forget that revisionists are supporting murderers
    >and trying to set up a new round of genocide

    Are you really paranoid enough to believe that?

    while Jews who change
    >their names are just trying to avoid genocide and murder.

    Perhaps so that the Palestinians can’t find them and extract revenge for the
    treatment of Palestinians.

    >Kurt Stele is violent animal that needs taming.

    By who?

    Any behavior by an
    >people to defend against another round of world cataclysm brought by
    >Stele and the people he defends is justifiable.

    Do you really think he was alive then?

    >No one will sit quietly and let the Nazis do their thing again.

    Despite what you find hiding under your bed at night, the Nazis are gone.

    We
    >aren’t laying down for you Stele. There will be no soft targets for
    >you this time.

    Armed and dangerous?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 07:31:26 PST 1996
    Article: 77783 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.jsums.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news.ptd.net!news.fast.net!netaxs.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Nazis: The Next Generation
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:44:27 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 41
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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    [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

    :[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

    :>[email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

    :>>Hey fuckwad,

    :>>Jews changed their names, by and large, because they were forced to,
    :>>not because they wanted to assimilate.

    :>Hey roach shit,

    :>Jews also changed their names in Europe because they wanted to be more
    accepted. And even
    :>if they “had to” change their names, that form of concealing their identity is
    no
    :>different than anyone using a false name here to avoid damaging repercussions
    of being
    :>politically incorrect. Of course, you defend the Jews but condemn
    revisionists only
    :>because you’re another hypocritical Jew scumbag.

    :So of course, they Jews who “assimilated” by taking German names took
    :such obviously Jewish names as Goldstein, Silverman, Rosenblatt, etc.

    It is known to be antisemitic to say that jews can be identified by their name.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 07:31:27 PST 1996
    Article: 77766 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: out of the way Birkenau
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:44:32 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 36
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

    :In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    :> Strange as it may seem to holohuggers, rather than Birkenau being an out of
    :>the way place to do the gassing, it was larger than Auschwitz and the
    :>distance between the two was less than the length of Birkenau.

    :Hi Matt,

    :I’m just guessing here, but I suppose you think your statement is
    :somehow meaningful. Perhaps you could expand upon your statement so
    :that others can see your point, too.

    :Neither Auschwitz nor Birkenau is particularly “out of the way”: they
    :are located in industrial Upper Silesia at an important rail junction.

    Rather there is the constant suggestion that all of this gassing was done in
    secret. Obviously that there was no open revolt over it or being in line for
    it. Some might have had the lingering impression that Birkenau itself was in
    some manner small or out of the way.

    BTW: Have you seen the picture of people getting off the train with one of the
    Kremas clearly visible without a fence in the background?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 07:35:04 PST 1996
    Article: 77797 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Contemporary attitudes towards the Holocaust
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:47:18 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 25
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
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    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:89332 soc.culture.jewish:87301 alt.revisionism:77797

    u4g65 wrote:

    >I am presently researching the subject of the Holocaust for my
    >dissertation, particularly in respect to the views that Germans have
    >concerning the holocaust today. What do you see as being the reasons for
    >the Holocaust? What do you think about relationships between Jews and
    >Germans today? I would very much appreciate any comments on this topic.

    Publically expressed attitudes are controlled by law in Germany, so what is the
    point in asking?

    You would have a more interesting but unacceptable topic to examine the
    cooperation of Zionism and Nazism before and during the war. Then you would
    find that the present support of Israel by Germany has not changed from the Nazi
    era.
    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 07:41:23 PST 1996
    Article: 77788 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Gets It Wrong Again
    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:10:34 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 32
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-19.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

    >> [email protected] (This1s Aforgery) writes:
    >> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >> >Please document ANY false or malicious complaints I have made, Mr. Giwer.
    >> >Or retract the lie.

    >> I have no intention of retracting your deliberately false and malicious
    >> complaints. You have publically stated you have made false and malicious
    >> complaints. Admit you lied in saying that you filed them and we can start from
    >> the beginning.

    > That, of course, is a lie from the criminal Giwer. She admitted no such
    >thing. She complained about your forgeries. You were forging posts. Her
    >complaints were neither false or malicious. Your activities were, on the other hand,
    >both false and malicious.

    > But you know that.

    A stereotypical jew name calling.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 14:48:15 PST 1996
    Article: 77804 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
    Subject: Re: Dr. Becker Implements National Socialism
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:50:47 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 109
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
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    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:77804 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:618

    [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

    >In article ,
    >Matt Giwer wrote:
    >>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
    >>
    >>>Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16 May 1942
    >>>[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
    >>>Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
    >>>———————————————————————-
    >>
    >>The strange Case of Mobile<br /> >>Gassing
    >>
    >>>link=”#0000ff”>
    >>
    >>

    The strange case of Mobile
    >>Gassing

    >>
    >>I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers
    >>by putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small
    >>van and two on each side of the large vans, such as one often
    >>sees on farm houses in the country.
    >>
    >>


    >>
    >>Here we have the technique of camoflauging trucks as farm houses
    >>by the clever trick of adding window shutters. No one would ever
    >>guess they were not really farm houses. Why even the Jellystone
    >>park ranger was taken in.

    > Here we have the technique of creating a strawman by pretending that
    >Becker wrote “farm houses” instead of “house trailers” which he actually
    >wrote. No one would ever guess that Becker did not write “farm houses.”

    > Who was taken in? Raise your hand.

    Perhaps you would care to either define the term “house trailer” or provide a
    better translation. What is a house trailer? You are probably still trying to
    deal with people being moved around in wagon trains.

    =====

    What YOU are asked to believe

    What YOU are asked to believe

          Few people realize they are
    being asked to believe that nearly twice the population of New
    York City was exterminated, that the bodies
    were disposed of so expertly that they can not be found after
    fifty years
    and that nearly half of those people were Jewish.

          Few people realize they are
    being asked to believe that, in the middle of war with every
    resource precious to victory, the Nazis diverted enough resources
    to deal with twice the population of New York City, to kill more
    people than they killed in combat and to do this while there was
    still a chance of losing the war and being found out.

          Few people realize they are
    being asked to believe that all of it is to be explained by the
    motivation of blind, unthinking anti-semitism, even the half that
    were not Jewish.

          Few people realize they are
    being asked to believe that almost everyone went willingly to the
    camps, that what was happening was commonly known in the camps
    without it motivating revolt or even protest, or alternatively
    that it was a dark secret within the camps even though millions
    were paraded through the camps for destruction.

          Before the Holocaust became a
    capitalized word and took on religious significance each part of
    it had a separate existance. Each part of it could be presented
    and investigated individually. These days the parts are
    inseparable from the whole.

          Not only are they inseparable
    >from the whole but any criticism of anything that happens in
    Israel or done by Israel, no matter how vile, is defended by the
    Holocaust and earns the allegation of anti-semitic for anyone who criticizes
    Israel.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:56:08 PST 1996
    Article: 77818 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!jupiter.ny.simply.com!flesh.fly.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news!news.gate.net!interramp.com!cyberspam!zog.gov!mgiwer
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:45:44 -0800
    From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
    X-Original-From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Sender: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
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    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Organization: Giwerbot ™
    X-Original-Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Subject: Re: The “revisionist” retreat
    Supersedes: <[email protected]>
    Message-ID:
    X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 04:35:42 GMT
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    Lines: 34
    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:77818 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:619

    +————————————————————————+
    | As a public service, the Giwerbot ™ automatically reposts trolls |
    | from Matt Giwer with headers corrected. To stop this |
    | script, all Mr. Giwer must do is post a single message from gate.net |
    | to alt.revisionism under his own name, and it will stop, automatically.|
    | If, after stopping, more than ten apparent forgeries are observed, it |
    | will automatically start up again. To send a private message to the |
    | maintainer of the Giwerbot, post an article with Subject: line reading |
    | “Giwerbot rocks!” and it will automatically be forwarded along. -gbm |
    +————————————————————————+

    [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    >Hey, Mr. Giwer:
    >
    >Why aren’t you using your real name? Your relatives rise up against you?

    Do you have a problem with my using a handle? Or were you given the task of
    sorting out what I post for pirating?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:58:12 PST 1996
    Article: 77811 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: More honey from the lips of Marduk.
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:47:22 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 63
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    >Hardwire wrote:
    >>Michael P. Stein wrote:
    >>
    >>> The fact that you are posting from Matt Giwer’s old ISP has not
    >>> escaped my notice, BTW.
    >>
    >>What??! What is it with all of your fascination about the ISP I’m
    >>posting from??
    >>
    >>If I were posting from Worldnet, Netcom, or any other site that Giwer
    >>had been too, would you be this amazed by it?

    > No, since they are national providers. Combase is not. Your presence
    >here defending Giwer is an interesting coincidence.

    What is coincidental about personal knowledge?

    >>Is this guilt by association on a grand scale?

    > Merely a suggestion that you have some sort of personal connection to
    >Matt Giwer, whether direct or indirect, and that you are posting from a
    >very one-sided view of things without bothering to acquaint yourself with
    >the evidence.

    Actually he is going the extra mile to look at the evidence. In fact he is
    going farther than most people would ever imagine doing.

    >>Oh, and do tell Oh Great and Powerful one. Since it’s “not escaped”
    >>your attention, what do you plan to do about it? Is this a
    >>not-to-subtle threat?

    > If Matt did not agree with what you said, he would have called you
    >paranoid for that remark.

    Not in the least. In fact, when Ken McVay contacted my parents that was a
    “subtle hint” right out of NYC and only dismissable by the naive.

    > Threats and pseudothreats are Matt Giwer’s department. If you had any
    >interest in the evidence, you would know that.

    You should post them some day along with the proof they were not forged.

    >>– Hardwire

    > It is very noble of you to defend a man who has called you scum in
    >public.

    And when was that? Or do you think he is dumb enough to fall for that
    approach?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:58:41 PST 1996
    Article: 77815 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: 961026: Just an ordinary guy
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:48:01 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 34
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    >DvdThomas wrote:
    >>H. Ostrov wrote:

    >[…]

    >>>>He merely acknowledged the FACT that a Gentile was less than a Jew.
    >>>>Precisely what I had read in the Talmud.
    >>>
    >>>FACT?! Is this a new acronym I see before me? Fictitious Abstract
    >>>Contradicting Truth. Oh, right! I forgot – he “read [it] in the
    >>>Talmud” that he found on the Internet. Yep. Must a FACT.
    >>
    >>Well, Prof. Israel Shahak sure seems to think that this is how the hard
    >>line Orthodox folks view things.

    > Well, some, to be sure – just as some hard-line Christians view all
    >non-Christians as condemned to eternal damnation.

    All fundies are equally stupid. So what it the problem with pointing out what
    fundie jews believe?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:58:42 PST 1996
    Article: 77831 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: The proper comparision
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:45:50 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 373
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    It is noted that even the Nazis did not sink this low.

    In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful

    The Story of the Zionist Occupation of Palestine

    Preface

    The following pages tell the story of the occupation of Palestine. It tells
    about
    the history of the occupation and about the suffering of a nation and a people.
    Those people who had their whole lives changed by the foreign inhumane and
    brutal invaders but are still fighting back. We feel that we owe it the
    thousands
    of martyrs who sacrificed their lives for Palestine, to tell the story of
    Palestine
    and its people.

    The Occupation Begins

    After illegally depriving the people of Palestine from their right to live
    peacefully
    on their full land by giving most of it to the zionist Israelis in 1947-8, the
    international community again looked away as Israel took over the rest of
    Palestine and Jerusalem in 1967.

    On June 7, 1967, during the third Arab-Israeli war, the Israeli army entered the
    Jordan-administered Palestinian territory known as the West Bank. It forced
    large numbers of civilians to flee by bombing and napalming their villages and
    refugee camps. Within days the Arab armies had agreed to a cease-fire.

    Israeli journalist Amos Kenan described what happened two days after the
    cease-fir was declared when his platoon was ordered to `straighten out’ its
    `sector’- that is, to destroy the three Palestinian villages of Yalu, Beit Nuba
    and
    Emmaus. The Israelis ordered the villagers to abandon their houses and go to a
    village in a different “sector”. Later They learned that that village too was
    being
    bulldozed: “It was not in our sector alone that areas were being `straightened
    out’.”

    Many of the villagers who were driven out without food and water perished on
    the road; those who survived became refugees. Kenan’s platoon then
    proceeded to demolish the beautiful stone houses that stood in orchards of
    carefully-tended olive trees, apricots and grapevines: “Non one could
    understand how Jews could do such a thing. Even those who justified the
    action said that it should have been possible to provide shelter for the
    population, that a final decision should have been taken as to their fate, as to
    where they were to go….The chickens and pigeons were buried under the
    rubble. The fields were turned to desolation before our eyes, and the children
    who dragged themselves along the road that day, weeping bitterly, will be the
    Fedayeen (fighters) of 19 years hence. This is how, that day, we lost the
    victory.”

    The children expelled by Amos Kenan’s platoon were among 300,000
    Palestinians driven out of the West Bank and Gaza when Israel “lost the
    victory” in June 1967. Left behind under Israeli rule were one million
    Palestinians, parents to the generation of the Intifada (uprising).

    Life Under Occupation

    What have twenty-eight years of Israeli occupation meant for the Palestinians
    the West Bank and Gaza, who numbered one million after the forced
    expulsions of 1967 and approach one and a half million today?

    Land

    What have twenty-eight years of Israeli occupation meant for the Palestinians
    the West Bank and Gaza, who numbered one million after the forced
    expulsions of 1967 and approach one and a half million today?

    >From 1967 on powerful forces within Israel have argued for the permanent
    retention of the territories: this was not the `temporary’ occupation recognized
    by international law. In October 1967 Israel’s chief rabbi talked about the West
    Bank in the following way:

    “The land was promised to us by the Almighty and all the prophets foretold its
    return to us. Therefore, it is forbidden for any Jew ever to consider returning
    any part whatsoever of the land of our forefathers.”

    Twenty-two years later, Israeli Prime Minister Shamir proclaims the same
    message, calling the people of Palestine, who had inhabited the land centuries
    before the first Hebrew tribes migrated to the region, “alien invaders in the
    land
    of Israel that belongs to the people of Israel, and only to them.”

    In violation of international law and defiance of the United Nations, the
    Israeli
    government in June 1967 annexed Arab East Jerusalem. The following year the
    ruling Labor Party began to colonize the West Bank with Jewish settlements.

    When the Likud Party took power in 1977, it intensified colonization, pouring
    some $1 billion into settlement building over the next seven years. Likud gave
    free rein to the aggressive religious nationalism of the Gush Emunim (the `Bloc
    of the Faithful’), who believe that Israel’s inheritance of the whole land of
    Greater Israel will usher in the coming of the Messiah, and that only Jews have
    rights to the land. Gush Emunim settlers in the Hebron area, many of them
    American-born, have terrorized the Palestinian population for more than a
    decade, throwing bombs at their houses and bulldozing their citrus and olive
    trees.

    Since the uprising began, settlers have kidnapped and tortured Palestinian
    children and have staged hundreds of vigilante raids on Palestinian villages. In
    June 1989 Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg excused the murder of a fourteen year old
    Palestinian girl by religious students on the grounds that spilling “non Jewish
    blood was not, in God’s eyes, the same thing as spilling the blood of Jews.”

    Today, land taken from the Palestinians and earmarked for military purposes or
    Jewish settlements amounts to more than 52% of the most fertile areas of the
    West Bank and 40% of the Gaza Strip. Only a very small percentage of this land
    was sold willingly by Palestinians. Most of it was confiscated, and is held to
    be
    for Jews only-not just Jews from Israel, but Jews from anywhere in the world.
    Many newly-arrived immigrants from the United States and Russia are given
    heavily subsidized housing in the settlements built on expropriated Palestinian
    land.

    In a pattern of creeping annexation, some 120 Jewish settlements in the West
    Bank and Gaza are linked to Israel by a road and communications system
    which bypasses Palestinian villages and isolates them from each other.
    Secretary of State James Baker’s call in May 1989 fro Israel to give up “the
    unrealistic vision of a Greater Israel” and to “stop settlement activity” has
    hone
    unheeded. Six thousand new settlers moved to the West Bank during the first
    year of the Intifada and several new settlements are currently under
    construction.

    Life Under Occupation

    Water Issues

    Jewish settlers have not only taken the best Palestinian land. They have also,
    with Israel proper, quite literally drained precious water resources from
    Palestinian farmers.

    Since the occupation began, Palestinians have needed special permits to drill
    new wells for drinking water and irrigation. Until today, not a single permit
    has
    been granted Palestinians to dig deep wells for irrigation purposes. Meanwhile,
    settlers have permission to use as much water as they like, at one-fourth the
    cost paid by their Palestinian neighbors.

    According to official Israeli statistics, by the autumn of 1987 60,000 West Bank
    settlers were using more water than the 650,000 West Bank Palestinians. In the
    Gaza Strip, 2500 Jewish settlers, who have exclusive use of nearly 40% of the
    land, use 19 times more water per capita than the densely-crowded Gazans.
    The deep settler wells have caused sea water to seep into shallow Palestinian
    wells, poisoning citrus trees and making their drinking water taste of salt.

    By 1990, according to Israeli estimates, 83% of the water from the West Bank
    will be diverted to Jewish settlements and Israel. The indigenous Palestinians
    will get only 17% of their own water.

    International Law and Occupation

    Israel is a signatory to the 1907 Hague Regulations and the 1949 Fourth
    Geneva Convention. These treaties regard occupation as a temporary
    condition. The occupying power cannot expropriate land and must preserve
    existing local laws and administrative structures.

    Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are considered `protected persons’
    under the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Article 3 of the Convention
    bars violence against such `protected persons’; Article 33 prohibits “all means
    of intimidation or of terrorism” and expressly forbids collective punishment;
    Article 47 seeks to deter the occupying power from “willfully causing great
    suffering or serious injury to body and health” of protected persons and Article
    50 states that the occupier must “facilitate the proper working of all
    institutions
    devoted to the care and education of children.”

    Several other provisions ensure certain standards of treatment of the sick and
    wounded, while Article 49 forbids “individual or mass forcible transfers, as
    well
    as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory” and bars the
    occupying power from transferring “parts of its own civilian population into the
    territory it occupies.”

    Other articles give accused persons the right to a lawyer who can visit them
    freely and right to present evidence necessary to their defense. Articles 146
    and 147 establish personal liability for such “grave breaches” as killing,
    inhuman treatment and torture, expulsion and lack of due process.

    Israel has repeatedly violated every one of these articles as the occupying
    power of the West Bank and Gaza.

    When Israel first entered the West Bank it issued proclamations stating its
    intention to observe the Fourth Geneva Convention. But within months, it had
    dropped all references to international law. Before long, Israel was arguing
    that
    the Fourth Geneva Convention did not, after all, apply to the West Bank and
    Gaza since a legitimate sovereign was not displaced and since it had a better
    title to the territories than any other nation.

    Israel stand alone in the world in its refusal to recognize the Palestinians of
    the
    West Bank and Gaza as `protected persons’ under the Fourth Geneva
    Convention. Even the United States disputes the Israeli interpretation and
    maintains that Israel as occupier is bound by international law.

    As early as 1972 and as recently as 1989 the United Nations Commission on
    Human Rights condemned Israel’s breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention,
    calling its practices `war crimes.’

    The Economy

    The occupation is a story of deepening economic dependence and ruin. It is
    also the story of a system of control which extends to every aspect of
    Palestinian life. Palestinians have to get a permit from the Israel Civil
    Administration to plant a tomato or replace an old citrus tree, to harvest wild
    thyme or whitewash a house.

    Occupation has been good business, earning Israel and annual net income of
    $50,000,000 from the West Bank before the uprising began. In the first twenty
    years of occupation, Palestinians’ taxes and other deductions provided Israel
    with revenues 2.5 times its total investment in the territories. During this
    time
    the West Bank and Gaza have served as a “captive market” for Israel,
    unencumbered by tariffs, customs barriers and competition.

    In 1965, before the occupation began, the West Bank exported one-third more
    produce than it imported. But after a decade of Israeli occupation, West Bank
    agricultural imports exceeded exports by 11%, and 90% of the goods imported
    into the territories came from Israel.

    Palestinians are prohibited from exporting to other countries anything which
    might compete with Israeli products, and are only permitted to export to Israel
    when Israel experiences a shortage of a particular item.

    Medical Care

    In twenty-two years of occupation, Israel has failed to build a single hospital
    in
    the territories. Today, the ratio of hospital beds to population in Gaza is half
    what it was in 1967. The government spends ten times more per person on
    health care for its citizens than it does for Palestinians in the West Bank and
    Gaza (even though it collects much more taxes per capita from the
    Palestinians).

    Israel has used medical care as a weapon in its war against the intifada. Early
    in
    1989 the government canceled medical insurance for Palestinians, which has
    meant that treatment has been withheld from critically ill patients, including
    children, who used to be transferred to Israeli hospitals for specialized
    surgery.

    With serious injuries during the intifada calculated at 70,000- the per capita
    equivalent of some six million American casualties- Palestinians are now
    required to pay as much as $200 per day for in-patient care (consider that the
    ANNUAL income for many families is about $500) in filthy undersupplied
    government hospitals. Even these hospitals have been fired upon by Israeli
    soldiers, and Palestinian patients risk being beaten and arrested as they lie in
    hospital beds.

    Collective Punishment

    The intifada has made the world aware of forms of collective punishment
    barred by the Fourth Geneva Convention but long practiced by the Israelis.
    Army-imposed curfews (of which there were 1600 during the uprising’s first
    year) sometimes last for more than a month, with the residents of towns and
    refugee camps and on occasion the entire Gaza Strip being confined indoors
    nearly all that time (you can’t even look through your window or open your
    door), with no water, no electricity and little food.

    Palestinians- more than 2000 since the occupation began- have been
    permanently expelled from their homeland. Well over 1000 house have been
    demolished since 1967 as punishment for ‘security offenses’ committed by any
    family member. Over 300 houses have been demolished or sealed during the
    intifada, fifteen of them in the West Bank village of Beita after an Israeli
    girl was
    accidentally killed in the village by her armed Israeli escort.

    Entire villages like Quissan near Bethlehem are targeted for destruction if
    residents do not have ‘proper licenses’ or if authorities want their land for
    the
    expansion of Israeli settlements. In June 1989 fifteen people from Uthnah near
    Hebron were fined the equivalent of $1800 each to cover the cost of bulldozing
    their ‘illegal homes’. Israelis, with their worldwide reputation of “making the
    desert bloom,” have uprooted an estimated 60,000 mature olive and citrus trees
    belonging to Palestinians during the course of the intifada. Whole crops have
    perished during curfews, when villagers were imprisoned in their houses. Israel
    has instituted a wide range of economic reprisals during the intifada, ranging
    >from seizing the property of Palestinians who refuse to pay taxes to bans on
    gasoline shipments to the West Bank and fishing off the Gaza Strip.

    Schools and Education

    Israel as occupier took over many existing schools but declined to build new
    ones in spite of the rapidly growing Palestinian population. In the 1980’s,
    school closures became Israel’s preferred method of administration (you close
    schools so children become illiterate and thus less of a danger in the future
    and the source of cheap labor for Israeli industries): during the seven years
    ending in 1986, Palestinian universities were officially closed for more than
    four
    years.

    The universities have remained shut during the intifada. Elementary and high
    schools in the West Bank were closed for nearly two academic years, depriving
    320,000 West Bank children of schooling. A further 180,000 children in the Gaza
    Strip have had at best sporadic teaching, with closures, curfews and army
    attacks making sustained learning almost impossible. (It was illegal for parent
    to even gather a few neighborhood children in a home and teach them
    anything).

    During the intifada Israel has used school closures as collective punishment,
    preventing school principals and the United Nations Works and Relief Agency
    >from distributing educational materials for home use and arresting teachers in
    ‘alternative (home) schools’.

    In response to considerable domestic and international pressure, Israel
    announced in July 1989 that West Bank schools would be gradually re-opened.

    But no sooner had schools been opened than several were shut again for
    ‘security reasons’ (including kindergartens). Since August a number of schools
    have been raided by the army, and students are frequently harassed (at
    random) by soldiers (including female students).

    Civil Liberties

    Palestinians have virtually no due process rights. They can be arrested-and
    never told why- by any soldier or policeman, and incarcerated for a year or
    more without trial. Since the intifada, prisoners have been denied access to
    lawyers and tried on ‘security offenses’ in batches. The conviction rate is
    nearly 100%. During the intifada fifty-eight Palestinians have been expelled
    >from the West Bank and Gaza for undisclosed ‘security reasons’.

    Even before the uprising, holding the fingers in a “V” sign was viewed as
    ‘incitement’ (“V” for victory). A four-year-old appeared in a Jerusalem court
    for
    this ‘crime’ in July 1989. Now children can be arrested for having dirty hands
    -‘proof ‘ that they had thrown a stone, and shot for keeping their faces covered
    or running away when ordered to stop by soldiers.

    The army censors art by destroying paintings which include the colors of the
    Palestinian flag, and newspapers by reviewing copy on a daily basis and
    frequently imprisoning journalists. More than 1800 books are explicitly banned,
    including all works that “address, instill or foster Palestinian-Arab national
    feelings and national heritage.”

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:58:43 PST 1996
    Article: 77845 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news.ptd.net!news.fast.net!netaxs.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Native Americans
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:46:22 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 77
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References:
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

    :[email protected] wrote:

    :> 2. I would say that the Nazis treatment of the Jewish
    :> people was similar to America’s treatment of Native Americans.

    :In other words, they ruthlessly stripped them of their possessions and
    :land, treated them like animals, sent them on forced marches with
    :staggering death rates, and let disease kill them by the hundreds of
    :thousands. (The similarity ends in the camps, where the Nazis built
    :machines of mass murder, though of course you would deny the facts of
    :the matter.) Further, a significant segment of the population,
    :probably the majority, had not even enough sympathy with the victims
    :to raise their voices in protest.

    :Yes, there were similarities, as you say, though I’m sure you intended
    :connotations with which I could not agree. Both are monstrous crimes,
    :beyond the capacity of words to express. The human capacity for
    :inhumanity knows no national boundaries. But does one lessen the
    :meaning or significance of the other? Of course not.

    There are even greater similarities between the way Israelis treat Palestinians.
    Never have a people been treated more mercilessly for a greater people of time
    than the Palestinians by the Israelis.

    :Protest under the Nazi regime was of course much more difficult than
    :protest in the American Colonies or the newly-formed U.S. of A.

    Protest by Palestinians gets you arrested and detained and tortured, perhaps
    summarily executed, and your families home destroyed and land and property
    confiscated. Other than that, not much different for the Nazis save for the
    lack of torture and property destruction.

    :Furthermore, the population of the Colonies and States was not
    :subjected to a torrent of anti-Indian propaganda in anything like the
    :way that the German population was.

    But the torrent of anti-Palestinian propaganda reaches even the shores of the
    United States, so great its volume and mendacity.

    There was the concomitant problem
    :of slavery in the New World, which many considered the greater evil,
    :and which many probably wanted to see solved first.

    But remember slavery was started by the Christian Columbus and not the great
    explorer Jewish Columbus.

    But I don’t think
    :these “mitigating factors” even play a role; I can still see a clear
    :moral similarity between these two aggressor peoples.

    The THREE aggressor groups.

    :I would say the most important differences are: (1) Native Americans
    :were never subjected to forced labor (to my knowledge) on the scale
    :that the Nazis used their enemies. (2) The technologies differed,
    :allowing the Nazis to be much more efficient in their mass murder.

    The majority of the deaths of the Amerinds was from disease, as did the Jews as
    you know. As you also know, Israel has not built one new hospital on the West
    Bank since it took control, it has never spent a penny on moderization or
    improvement and greatly underfunds maintenance, and charges Palestinians $200 a
    day when their incomes are $600 per year to use the substandard hospitals.
    (Jews on the West Bank are evacuated to modern hospitals in Israel where their
    insurance covers all the costs.)

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 16:59:08 PST 1996
    Article: 77838 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Fill Me In: What happened to the Giwer-Swine?
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:46:48 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 31
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >In article ,
    >Hardwire wrote:

    >> Since when is changing your identity information in a Post to a Newsgroup
    >> breaking a Law?
    >>
    >That’s NOT what happened, “Hardwire” and you are being extremely
    >disengenuous to state it this way.
    >
    >Mr. Giwer FORGED accounts: Dan Keren, Ken McVay, Yale Eideken, and many
    >others. Not “changed his name,” FORGED theirs.
    >
    >If he did it on a check, he’d be in jail.

    Amazing that the instant such a different ID was posted, everyone claimed to
    know who it was and also claimed that it was forged. That sort of indicates it
    was not a forgery at all as it was so obvious. Beyond that, you are lying.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Wed Oct 30 17:00:24 PST 1996
    Article: 77817 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Big brother Mcvay is watching
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:29:33 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 103
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] () wrote:

    >KEN MCVAY – A PROFILE

    >Information provided by the Edmonton Journal (a supporter)

    >He appears as an scruffy aging hippy. At 55 he still can’t manage a
    >decent haircut. The pony tail is just plain ugly.
    >He served as a marine – they couldn’t stand him.
    >He served as a policeman – they couldn’t stand him.
    >He left the United States – they couldn’t stand him.
    >He entered Canada – We will take anything won’t we?
    >We accept criminals, aids carriers and any other garbage.

    >His computer consulting business failed. While unemployed he then
    >discovered the wonders of fighting what he thinks is racism. He is
    >allegedly is employed by something called Nizkor (Hebrew for We
    >Remember). This group is largely funded by Jewish groups. So it seems
    >he “works” for a people that believe they are the chosen people — and
    >then he has the gall to call many detractors racists.

    >He has a Stanford University computer program that allows him to scour
    >the newsgroups for nasty messages. So playing God and doing his big
    >brother act (We are watching you) for 16 hours a day, he gets to play!
    >The rest of us have to have real jobs to feed our families.

    His supporters here insist that this kmcvay is not the same as the
    [email protected]

    =====

    Jake Fire Day – Murder by the RCMP
    (LONG!)

    Ken Mcvay ([email protected])
    Fri, 1 May 1992 07:04:06 GMT

    ===

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    Description: Mailing list. The Holocaust Research List is devoted to
    Holocaust
    research, and the refutation of those who deny the event. Subscriptions to
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    are available by invitation. The list is published as a moderated digest.
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    ===

    You can see his ugly puss at:

    http://www.eye.net/News/Eyenet/1994/net1110.htm

    You can read of his rather foolish and grandiose schemes there (“The archive is
    now maybe 60 megs and may swell to over a gig in 1995.”) and how he picked up
    with a couple of schoolkids. (“McVay works closely with Danny
    Keren ([email protected]) and Jamie McCarthy ([email protected]),
    among others.”)

    Also you can see one of his more famous lies.

    “Revisionists often assert McVay secretly gets operating funds from Jews.

    “I don’t,” McVay says.”

    ===

    A little further on we discover his opinion of Vancouver.

    VANCOUVER IS A GLARING EXAMPLE of tasteless, unplanned
    development. Vancouver sits as a constant reminder that our society has
    failed to instill worthwhile values in its citizens. The ugliness of the
    tupperware boxes, sitting closely packed on the North Shore serves as an
    instant introduction to Vancouver’s belief that money rules above all
    things.
    These ugly and tasteless crackerboxes must prove quite a shock to folks
    driving in from Horseshoe Bay for the first time. Vancouver’s beautiful
    location makes its destruction even more distasteful.
    — Ken McVay, [email protected], Ladysmith,
    B.C.

    Given his self portrait of the “fine wine” type is is no surprise that he was
    able to pick up the schoolkids.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:52:33 PST 1996
    Article: 77900 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!en.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (Th1s1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: One More Time: Holocaust Proof
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:26:19 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 106
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    >* Still making the absurd claim that there is evidence of death by
    >gassing when an
    >*examination of YFE’s claimed source includes to autopsy reports whatsoever.

    >From _Auschwitz — 1270 to the Present_ by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan
    >van Pelt. Continuation of previously posted information beginning on page
    >292:

    Thank you for yet another contradictory version of the absolutely true story. I
    will be looking for a way to clearly incorporate it into the webpage of the
    other three.

    And of course, this is merely a story, it is not physical evidence, it is not
    forensic evidence. It is just a story. That you choose to believe it is your
    business but your belief in it adds nothing to its validity.

    >”Encouraged by his success, Fritsch conducted the first mass execution
    >with Zyklon B on 3 September.

    According to Naumann, Bernard. Auschwitz. New York: Frederick A. Praeger,
    1966, as cited in Conot1, the first was conducted by a man named Breitweiser in
    October.

    According to KL Auschwitz as seen by SS Hoess, Broad and Kremer,
    second edition, Museum w Oswiecimu, 1978, pp. 92-952, the first was conducted
    by Hoess himself.

    So why do you choose to believe this one and not the others?

    Wojciech Barcz, an inmate who worked as a
    >nurse, recalled that a few months after the beginning of the war against
    >the Soviet Union he was ordered to bring very ill inmates into the
    >underground cells of block 11. ‘They were locked into these cells.
    >Around ten in the evening we heard that the SS drove a large group of
    >people to that place. We heard screaming in Russian, orders of the SS,
    >and the sound of beating. In the middle of the night three days later, we
    >nurses were ordered to go to block 11.

    In the Auschwitz FAQ version of this story it is two days later after a second
    dose of gassing. In the version where Hoess was present, death was
    instantaneous. In the Breitweiser version of the story it took a full day.

    We had to clear the corpses from
    >the basement cells. We saw that a large group of Russian prisoners simply
    >had been gassed in those cells together with the sick inmates who we had
    >brought there. The image we saw when we opened the cell doors was that of
    >an overpacked suitcase. The corpses fell towards us. I estimate that
    >some sixty corpses were pushed together in a small cell. It was so packed
    >that they could not fall over when they died, but remained standing… One
    >could still see many signs of a terrible death struggle.’

    In the Breitweiser version of the story, ears and fingers are torn off and the
    bodies and clothes are fused into gelatinous masses.

    The Germans
    >were not satisfied. Some prisoners survived the ordeal, the procedure
    >took too long, the corpses had to be transported to the crematorium on the
    >other side of the camp, and it took two days to air out the building.

    Of course the three days is contrary to all three of the other true stories and
    is incompatible with two days to air out.

    The
    >basement of block 11 was not the ideal gas chamber, but those first
    >excersizes had demonstrated that it was easy to convert any space into a
    >Zyklon B gas chamber. Unlike the carbon monoxide gas chamber, with its
    >system of pipes and perforated vents and its cumbersome gas cylinders,

    Gas cylinders? Who else claims such a thing?

    the
    >hydrocyanide gas chamber required only a small porthole, preferably in the
    >roof, through which to drop the Zyklon B crystals. … ‘I really didn’t
    >waste any thoughts about the killing of the Russian POWs,’ Hoss confessed
    >in 1946. ‘It was ordered; I had to carry it out. But I must admit openly
    >that the gassings had a calming effect on me, since in the near future the
    >mass annihilation of the Jews was to begin.'”

    So what was the motivation for the mass annihilation of the other six million?

    Were not the four million killed by the Einsatzgruppen considered “mass” enough
    when all they got at Auschwitz was one million? Way back when (six years ago)
    this comment by Hoess may have made sense but now that the numbers are reversed
    it makes no sense at all.

    And of course I will point out that the tens of thousands of tons of cremated
    remains were never found.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:52:34 PST 1996
    Article: 77923 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news.ptd.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Emigration allowed up to Oct 1941
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:45:59 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 50
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    wrote:

    :Here is some background information
    :foor those who are new to this group
    :or the discussion concerning the use
    :of the words “ausrotten” and “Ausrottung”

    :d.A. wrote

    :Despite such authoritative quotations, the deniers who
    :participated in the discussion attempted to insist that
    :”aurotten” as used, for example, by HImmler in his speech
    :at Posen, was really meaning something else, namely the
    :*geographical* removal of Jews from Germany.

    :A book which has recently come to my attention is one
    :edited by J. Walk, entitled “Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden
    :im NS-Staat”, published by C.F.Mueller Verlag, Huethig GmbH,
    :Heidelberg in 1996 (ISBN 3-8252-1889-9).

    :On page 361 of this book (item number 293 in Section IV of
    :this book) the reader finds:

    :”3.1.42 RFSSuCdP[IV B 4a – 50/52] RdErl
    :[Verbot der Auswanderung von Juden]”

    :The “3.1.42” is the date of issue, viz, 3rd January, 1942.

    :”RdErl” is the abbreviation for “Runderlass”

    :”RFSSuCdP” is the abbreviation for “Reichsfuehrer SS und
    :Chef der Deutschen Polizei.

    Getting the Jews out of Germany was the joint and collaborative goal of the
    Nazis and the founders of Israel, the Zionists. You folks should stop trying to
    preferentially nail only one group.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:52:35 PST 1996
    Article: 77907 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:03:51 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 27
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
    >>> [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
    >>
    >>> Listen stupid. A lot of prisoners try to escape from prisons every year
    >>> in the USA and Denmark. Does that prove that they have been tortured?
    >>
    >> In this case YES. You are not6 talking about criminals, you are talking
    >>about Danish citizens who have skin color of which you disapprove. Locking
    >>them up in unpleasant conditions so that they will leave their homeland is torture.
    >>
    > What kind of Talmudic quibbling is this. Torture is torture no matter the
    >motive.

    Another stereotypical jewish tactic. What did you expect?

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:55:03 PST 1996
    Article: 77914 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Grafeneck: The gassings begin, in Germany
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:04:12 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 35
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

    >Archive/File: holocaust/euthanasia grafeneck.01
    >Last-modified: 1993/11/09

    > “Around Grafeneck signs were posted: `Danger — Epidemic,’ and all
    > access was barred. The exterminations rose to an average of more
    > than thirty a day. Since it was awkward, time-consuming, and too
    > expensive to kill so many with drugs, Criminal Police Commissioner
    > Wirth devised a method for mass extinction. The people, upon
    > arrival, were undressed, given a one-minute physical examination,
    > then herded into a shed whose walls had been mortered and sealed.
    > Since many of these patients, removed from their accustomed
    > surroundings, were in a state of great agitation, Wirth tried to calm
    > them by leading them to believe that they would be given showers.
    > The shed, in fact, was equipped with dummy shower heads. Once all
    > were inside the doors were locked, and coal gas or carbon monoxide
    > was pumped in.

    And the silly shit Nizkor thinks there is any difference between this and
    abortion.

    It is life, it is murder. Nizkor supports murder.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:55:05 PST 1996
    Article: 77919 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Can’t Read English
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:02 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 32
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

    >> [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery) writes:

    >> > The criminal Giwer claims, of course, that he is not an anti-Semite.
    >> >Strange how he fits in so well with most of the other “revisionists’ around here.
    >
    >> The repetition of the word “criminal” is a stereotypical jew tactic. It is
    >not
    >> surprising that you would use it.

    > In your case, however, it is an accurate description based on your
    >criminal conduct.

    And you are still a stereotypical (hereinafter abbreviated typiecal) jew for
    using such tactics.

    You do nothing more than demonstrating what a Jew really is.

    A jew is someone like you.

    A liar.
    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 06:55:05 PST 1996
    Article: 77917 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.gil.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Repost of Response To Stele
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:38:20 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 44
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    Kimberley Ahlf wrote:

    >On 29 Oct 1996, Alec Grynspan wrote:

    >> <*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
    >> <+[Re: Repost of Response To Stele] [28 Oct 96 07:00][*][0]*>
    >>
    >> KS> Only this time, she has another exaggeration to support. On
    >> KS> 10/24/96 Mrs. Ahlf wrote that Giwer “lost every argument” on
    >> KS> alt.revisionism, although she has so far presented ZIPPO support
    >> KS> for this rather broad assertion.
    >>
    >> What exaggeration?
    >>
    >> Disprove her. Show an argument that Matt won – anywhere.
    >>

    >Thanks for your support, but I’d rather Mr. Stele continue with his
    >ludicrous insistence that I provide ‘proof’ of my opinion while he
    >continues to evade his promise to provide proof of his facts.

    >I claimed Matt Giwer lost every debate he ever engaged in. I submit as
    >evidence the archived record of every debate Matt Giwer ever engaged in
    >(to conserve space I’ll refer those wishing to review this evidence to
    >consult the Nizkor site which contains this archive.) I hold that this
    >evidence “proves” my opinion. Mr. Stele is free to indicate exactly where
    >this evidence does not support my opinion. Granted, Mr. Stele and I are
    >highly unlikely to reach any consensus on the interpretation of this data.

    So you are a llar. So what else is new? You have no value and no one loves
    you. So what else is your problem?

    Jews hate you. And you know that.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 10:30:26 PST 1996
    Article: 77946 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Fill Me In: What happened to the Giwer-Swine?
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:21:53 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 53
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

    >On Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:45:45 GMT, Matt Giwer, who is posing this week as,
    >[email protected] (This1s Aforgery) wrote:

    >> The emotional pretension you folks put into your post that makes you believe you
    >>can carry on this charade forever. There is an entire website being prepared
    >>documenting the harrassment of you holohuggers. It will be emailed to the
    >>attention of every [email protected] in the world when it is ready.

    >And is Combase going to believe it? They have the proof of your previous
    >abuses.

    >And is Netcom going to believe it? They have the proof of your previous
    >abuses?

    >Is ATT going to believe it? They have the proof of your previous abuses.

    >You seem to forget, little man, that your ISP’s check out your abuses and
    >determine for themselves if they are true or not. They don’t just take the
    >word of those who have complained.

    >But you knew that.

    >But why mail it to every abuse ISP in the world? You planning on running
    >through a few more ISP’s yet?

    >Be careful, little man. Mailing a WEB page around might in itself be
    >considered abuse and get you bounced from gate.net.

    As a stereotypical jew tactic you will repeat lies until everyone repeats them
    as you are doing here.

    I expect no better from jews.

    You folks are obviously liars.

    AS AN EXAMPLE you have stated that ATT told you the reason whereas ATT has a
    policy of never giving a reason as it is private information.

    Therefore you are a liar and a jew liar in addition.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 12:35:28 PST 1996
    Article: 77959 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Markduk from idirect of canada
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:35:26 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 17
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    What is interesting tonight is that once again tonigh, Marduk identified himself
    as a jew and threatened to kill me and my family.

    This jew Marduk is getting rather grossly insulting and that he is employee of
    or perhaps even an owner of idirect is getting a touch tiring.

    That an ISP would be issuing death threats is a touch out of it ordinary.
    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 13:19:38 PST 1996
    Article: 77966 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,sci.skeptic,soc.history
    Subject: Re: Best of Pooh Bah: What about Columbus, Mr. Raven?
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:06:18 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 30
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:77966 sci.skeptic:176490 soc.history:10335

    [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    >> I was more impressed with the silly shit about Columbus that she
    >thought was
    >> something earthshaking. It was old in gradeschool in the 50s. Perhaps
    >she went
    >> to a public gradeschool.

    >At least she was able to write her own name, Mr. Giwer.

    True but the thieving holohugger McVay has a lot harder problem stealing my
    material and the folks who pretend they can create bots are being given
    something to occupy their free time.

    Do you have any other problems?

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 16:59:22 PST 1996
    Article: 77991 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news.nacamar.de!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.gil.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Denmark during WW2
    Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:16:56 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 45
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References:
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

    >In article , Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, Ole Kreiberg wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>The article you sent to me via e-mail attempting to debunk Danish
    >>’heroism’ during WWII was very interesting. You should post it here on
    >>alt.revisionism for all to see (if you have already, I apollogize for
    >>missing it.)

    > I have done that, and I have reposted the following:

    > Denmark during WW2

    You need to read

    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html

    to discover that the Zionists, the founders of Israel argued against the
    evacuation of Danish Jews — and won.

    The destruction of European Jewry was conceived and planned before Hitler was
    born and it was done by the Zionist movement within Judaism that founded Israel.
    The Zionist cooperated with the Nazis to destroy European Jewry.

    The founders of Israel cooperated with the Nazis in bringing it about. Zionists
    REFUSED to help European Jews but rather chose to spend their monies to purchase
    land in Palestine.

    There is clearly no difference between the Zionists and the Nazis, which clearly
    explains the behavior of Nazis, excuse me, Zionists today.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 19:46:12 PST 1996
    Article: 78015 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis4 Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism — Gate.Net Refuses to Help
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:10:10 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 86
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl2-40.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
    Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:87917 alt.revisionism:78015

    [email protected] (Kevin Filan) wrote:

    > Matt Giwer has “declared war” on alt.revisionism and stated that
    >he seeks to make it unusable.

    A stereotypical jew lie as we all know.

    (For further documentation on this, check
    >out https://nizkor.org). By posting literally hundreds of messages, he
    >has single-handedly managed to drown out almost all rational discussion
    >regarding the collective events we call the Holocaust. (This is similar
    >to the attack on alt.religion.scientology)

    > His latest stunt is to forge the From: line on each of his posts,
    >thereby making killfiles worthless.

    As a stereotypical Jew/holohugger, you lie. I have never stated my purpose and
    you are clearlly a liar in this post.

    Gate.net has been informed of this,
    >but refuses to do anything. (When I forwarded examples of these posts,
    >they sent a complaint to MY system administrator, accusing me of harassing
    >them).

    CyberGate is an honest and reputable organization and does not give in to
    harrassment.

    > If you would like to complain to Gate.net about this abuse of
    >alt.revisionism and their continuing refusal to do anything about it,
    >please send complaints to [email protected] Feel free to send along a
    >few copies of Giwer’s forgeries — a cursory glance at the newsgroup will
    >make these clear.

    If you would like to harrass gate.net as a copy of this is being sent to them
    as an example of the organized harrassment …

    > Here is the “Whois” information on gate.net.

    >CyberGate, Inc. (GATE2-DOM)
    > 1301 West Newport Center Drive
    > Deerfield Beach, Florida 33442
    > USA

    > Domain Name: GATE.NET

    > Administrative Contact:
    > Network Administrator, CyberGate (CN313) [email protected]
    > 954-428-8080
    > Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
    > Graham, Sean (SG436) [email protected]
    > 305-428-4283
    > Billing Contact:
    > Administrator, CyberGate Dns (CDA6) [email protected]
    > 954-428-4283

    > Record last updated on 29-May-96.
    > Record created on 08-Oct-93.

    > Domain servers in listed order:

    > NS.GATE.NET 199.227.0.9
    > NS2.GATE.NET 199.227.0.20
    > ICM1.ICP.NET 192.94.207.66
    > NS1.SPRINTLINK.NET 204.117.214.10
    > NS2.SPRINTLINK.NET 199.2.252.10

    >The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
    >(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
    >Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

    >* * * * *
    >
    >Peace
    >Kevin Filan

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 23:10:54 PST 1996
    Article: 78023 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:44:36 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 30
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] wrote:

    :> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
    :> On 14 Oct 1996 08:33:29 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
    :>
    :>
    :> >It is not a lie. The monuments (plural) stated that
    :> >4 million human beings perished at Auschwitz. Don’t
    :>
    :> If you dd not lie, then why did you clearly state that the monuments said
    :> ‘Jews?’ And what do you call this statement of falsehood that you are on
    :> record as having said?
    :>
    :>>>>
    :What do you call this falsehood of 4 million
    :dead at Auschwitz? Whose falsehood is the greater?

    Were they lying then or are they lying now?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 23:11:21 PST 1996
    Article: 78024 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:44:41 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 44
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
    NNTP-Posting-Host: tpafl3-55.gate.net
    X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

    [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

    :In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ceacaa) wrote:

    :[snip]

    :> According to Standard Holocaust Mythology (SHM)
    :> the Germans had a gas chamber in use in the summer and
    :> winter of 1942- the so-called “Bunker”.

    :Bunkers. As in bunker 1 and bunker 2.

    :> This building could (SHM) be used to kill 2,800 people at a time-
    :> the same number as Crema II.

    :Bunker 1 was estimated by Ho”ss to be able to hold 800 people and bunker 2
    :about 1,200 people. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.162.)

    :> The “Bunker” according to the story was convenient, isolated, right next to
    :> burning pits.

    :It should be noted that intially the victims murdered at bunkers 1 and 2
    :were NOT incinerated, but simply buried in mass graves nearby. Only later,
    :around September 1942, on orders from Himmler, were the the dead
    :(~100,000) exhumed and, along with the subsequent victims, incinerated in
    :pits. (cf. Ibid. 163.) The Auschwitz SS, it then appears, seemed to have
    :been operating in the context of Aktion 1005: the erasure of the physical
    :evidence of Nazi genocide.

    If they were supposed to get rid of the physical evidence then how did they
    expect incineration to do that? Even if they could have been as good as an oven
    that would leave at least one half million pounds of unground bone material, 250
    tons that is.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 23:11:48 PST 1996
    Article: 78025 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:45:40 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 54
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
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    [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

    :In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    :> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
    :> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    :>
    :> Rascher continued for some time afterwards reporting the results of
    :> experiments involved putting his subjects in a depressurized chamber
    :> to see when they would die, and, immersing his subjects in
    :> near-freezing water to see when they would die.
    :>
    :> I am not sure whether the details are correct, but these experiments were
    :> conducted with the purpose in mind of saving human lives. The subjects
    :> were either criminals condemned to death or volunteers, I believe.

    :Ah, Herr Schwarzesel, finds yet another “pillar” of the Nazi community to
    :idolize and defend with his lying scumbag Nazi apologia! How truly
    :pathetic.

    :In regards to Herr Schwarzesel’s lame and disgusting Nazi apologia about
    :Nazi medical experiments being conducted “with the purpose in mind of
    :saving human lives,” I would offer the following:

    :”Though experiments on human beings are an accepted and recognized practic
    :ein medical research, they are generally subject to severe restrictions.
    :They must not be intended for ‘pure’ research, that is, for research that
    :does not have the immediate purpose purpose of developing of a new
    :medicine or a new kind of treatment; they must not have the sole purpose
    :of of advancing the researcher’s career; human beings may be involved only
    :in those phases of an experiment for which they are absolutely essential;
    :and high-risk medicines and experimental medical treatments may be tried
    :out only when no cure exists and where illness is already fatal. Under no
    :circumstances may a person of good health be deliberately infected with a
    :dangerous disease in order to try out a new medicine or a new form of
    :treatment.

    Does the name “Tuskeegee” ring any bells with you?

    Does the fact that a nominee for US Surgeon General was a part of “Tuskeegee”
    ring any bells with you?

    Who are you judging by last year’s rules?

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 23:11:49 PST 1996
    Article: 78035 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (This1s Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
    Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
    Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:46:33 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 40
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
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    Kimberley Ahlf wrote:

    >On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, Ole Kreiberg wrote:

    >> In article , Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >It’s most depressing that Denmark, the occupied nation which behaved so
    >> >admirably during WWII in protecting its Jewish citizens from the Nazis, is
    >> >represented here by the likes of Kreiberg.
    >>
    >> This is a reposting:
    >>
    >> The 50 anniversary of the of escape of the 7000 Danish Jews in
    >> October 1943 to Sweden were celebrated by the American Jews.
    >> According to the American Jews it was the whole Danish people and
    >> nation that out of some kind of “heroism” saved the Jews.
    >> As a Gentile Dane I find this embarrassing and nauseating.

    >It is perfectly understandable that as a racist Dane you would find the
    >efforts of your countrymen in saving 7,000 Jews “embarrassing and
    >nauseating.”

    When Finland wanted to evacuate them before the Germans took over the country,
    the Zionists argued against it and prevailed. Later the government did it
    without debate and got out a lot of them. As you know, the Zionist founded
    Israel.

    =====
    Niz-kor made this happen
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    htte://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE

    From [email protected] Thu Oct 31 23:13:05 PST 1996
    Article: 78017 of alt.revisionism
    Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.icix.net!news.gate.net!news
    From: [email protected] (NotThisis Aforgery)
    Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine
    Subject: Re: Matthias who? (Doing the Gannon in Tampa Bay…)
    Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:30:33 GMT
    Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
    Lines: 58
    Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
    Reply-To: [email protected]
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    [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

    ><*[*] [*] [Ken McVay OBC] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
    ><+[Matthias who? (Doing the Gannon in Tampa Bay...)] [27 Oct 96 04:06][*][0]*>

    > KO> Like Alex noted some time ago, the troll, by his own rules,
    > KO> cannot leave – he is stuck here, in the ultimate hell – one of
    > KO> his own creation – where he cannot, under any circumstances,
    > KO> do the Gannon.

    >1. That’s ALEC, please. It’s bad enough to end up being renamed by a
    >teacher who kept forgetting which AVRAM, AVRAHAM, whatever, she was
    >talking to when I was in school.

    >2. Ask Gord McFee or a few others. I nailed when Matt would
    >collapse, although I thought that he might try the “You’re
    >persecuting me” tactic and run.

    >But there’s no place to go any more. Matt is stuck – the perfect
    >example of the mentally debilitating effects of his disease,
    >denierism.

    > KO> Kafka would have loved it.

    >BINGO!

    >Matt never caught on when he could still get out with some dignity.

    >A hell that he designed for himself.

    A stereotypical attack from a Jew. Nothing better was ever expected.

    Jews such as yourself are very silly and very predictable.

    You call names, you repeat slander of goyim until it is repeated and then you
    run away from the claim of starting it.

    All of you selfproclaimed murdering jews are all alike.

    But you only publically proclaim you have killed Goyim and therefore feel no
    guilt.

    You are an example of why jews are considered murdering scum by the Palestinians
    and others who watch what you do and brag about.

    =====
    Read the information holohuggers fear
    http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
    http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
    http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
    http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side
    http://www.air-photo.com/ what was really there
    http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins/html ADELAIDE
    Nizkor: A vast whorehouse of holocaust information