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Giwer Matt, 6-1996 – p2

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From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:22 PDT 1996
Article: 72470 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Pollard of course
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 00:18:21 GMT
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From: [email protected] (NY Transfer News)
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 11:48:54 EST
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Subject: Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?

/* Written 2:00 am Jan 17, 1994 by [email protected] in
igc:mideast.levant */
/* ———- “Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?” ———- */
From:
Subject: Will Clinton Free Israel’s Spy?

This article appeared in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs,
January 1994. The Washinton Report is published monthly since 1982 by
the American Educational Trust (AET), a non-profit foundation in
Washington, DC.

Subscriptions: $19 in the U.S., $30 in Canada, and $55 overseas.
Address: P.O.Box 53062
Washington, DC 20009
Phone: (202) 939-6050
Will Clinton Yield to Pressure and Free American Who Spied
for Israel? By Tim Kennedy

Five years ago, shortly before a federal judge handed
confessed spy Jonathan Jay Pollard a lifetime prison sentence
for selling classified intelligence documents to Israel,
Pollard mad an impassioned plea for mercy. “I broke faith
and took the law into my own hands,” he admitted. “I should
have recognized the infectious nature on an ideology,
Zionism.”

Pollard, who worked as a civilian intelligence analyst
for the Navy, admitted that he was recruited by Israel in
1984 and passed along tens of thousands of pages of
classified documents until Nov. 18, 1985, when he was
arrested while attempting to seek asylum at the Israeli
Embassy in Washington. Israel paid Pollard more than $45,000
in cash for the stolen documents, and promised to deposit at
least $300,000 more in a Swiss bank account.

“It is likely he will never see the light of day again,”
Pollard’s prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Joseph diGenova said
after Pollard’s sentencing in March 1987. According to court
records, Pollard’s spy activities compromised a record number
of classified documents, and provided his Israeli handlers
with descriptions of covert intelligence programs, the
identities of undercover Mideast agents, and technical
assessments of radar and other military electronic equipment
used by Israel’s Arab neighbors.

In a court affidavit, then-Secretary of Defense Caspar
Weinberger said: “[It is] difficult for me to conceive of a
greater harm to national security than that caused by Pollard
in view of the breadth, the critical importance to the U.S.,
and the high sensitivity of the information he sold to
Israel.”

During a November visit to the White House, Israeli
Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin–who became his country’s
defense minister shortly after Pollard was recruited as a
spy–asked President Bill Clinton to commute Pollard’s life
term and release him from prison.

When a White House reporter asked Clinton and Rabin to
comment on the Pollard release proposal, the president said:
“We discussed it and I explained that, under our procedures
here, I cannot make a decision on the Pollard case until the
Justice Department makes a recommendation to me.” Clinton
added, however, that “Under the terms of the United States
constitution, I do not have to follow the recommendation of
the Justice Department…”

The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Washington, which
prosecuted the original case, has already told the head of
the Justice Department, Attorney General Janet Reno, that it
opposes early release for Pollard. “We have stated our
strong opposition to the possibility of Jonathan Pollard
having his sentence commuted,” a source at the U.S.
Attorney’s office, speaking on condition of anonymity, told
the Washington Report. “This is based on the strong damage
that Pollard’s activities inflicted on the United States.”

Law enforcement and intelligence community officials
worry that Pollard, once out of jail will reveal additional
U.S. military secrets, the source said. There also is worry
among the officials in the American intelligence community
that the secret information collected by Israeli intelligence
“has been severely compromised by agents from the former
Soviet republics and, possibly, other foreign powers.”

“When all these considerations are taken together,” says
the government source, “Pollard’s release could cause
continued damage to American intelligence assets.” Insiders
at various intelligence agencies predict, however, that
Clinton will ignore the advice of the country’s top law
enforcement officials, and will commute Pollard’s sentence.
“Pollard will be released before the end of the year,” a
Mideast expert at the Defense Intelligence Agency predicted
flatly. Asked why Clinton would make such a decision, the
DIA official says, “Because it’s a new American
administration, and it’s a new Israeli government.”
The DIA official said he was disappointed with the
situation, and added, “The Likud government never officially
asked for [Pollard’s] release. This one [the Rabin
government] has.”
George A. Carver, Jr., a former senior intelligence
officer who is now a fellow with the Washington-based Center
for Strategic and International Studies, does not conceal his
anger at the possibility of Pollard’s release: “Pollard is
precisely where he deserves to be … in prison,” Carver told
the Washington Report. “I can’t see any reason to let him
out. When a person commits espionage for a foreign power,
it’s still espionage, whether it’s for Israel or anybody
else.”

A ZIONIST HERO

To many Israelis and Jewish Americans, Pollard is a
Zionist hero who has been sold short by Israeli politicians
and his former intelligence officers. Various pro-Israel
groups in the U.S. and abroad have lobbied for Pollard’s
release and routinely run full-page ads in major U.S.
newspapers. These groups have also raised millions of
dollars to cover Pollard’s legal expenses. The fund-raising
effort is being led by the Israeli Public Committee for the
Release of Jonathan Pollard.
The Israeli government is banking Pollard’s $5,000
monthly salary, according to CNN correspondent Wolf Blitzer.
The cash is to serve as a “little nest egg,” should Pollard
ever be released from prison and move to Israel.
The $5,000 monthly stipend, Blitzer wrote in his book,
Territory of Lies, is twice what the former counter-
intelligence analyst was paid each month by the U.S. Navy.
Blitzer says there is a “tradition in the Israeli
intelligence community” that captured espionage agents have
their former salaries doubled and set aside for them.
Soon after it was established, the Israeli Public
Committee began urging Israel to formally demand Pollard’s
release. In 1991, the committee’s spokesman, Amnon Dror,
learned that Israel reportedly holds several U.S.-backed
spies. Dror has since aggressively urged the Israeli
government to “swap” Pollard for one of these imprisoned
agents.
Officially, the U.S. government denies that Israel is
holding any American spies. However, Yitzhak Rabin told
Israeli journalist Yossi Melman in early 1986 that “Israel
had discovered five American spies in the late 1970s and
early 1980s in sensitive nuclear and industrial facilities.”
Thomas Powers, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times,
writes that the CIA`s “working relationship with Israeli
intelligence [the Mossad] is one of the agency’s oldest and
closest, rivaled only by its ties to the British Secret
Intelligence Service.” What made the relationship between
the CIA and Mossad unique, say intelligence service insiders,
was the tacit mutual understanding that the two countries
would not spy on each other.
According to CIA lore, of which there is plenty on this
subject, the Agency’s fabled counterespionage chief, James
Jesus Angleton, considered Israel part of his ~secret
fiefdom,” and reportedly had close friendships with many
Israeli leaders, including former Israeli intelligence agent
and longtime Jerusalem mayor Teddy Kollek.
The CIA’s cozy relationship with Israel turned sour in
1982, sources say, shortly after Israel’s invasion of
Lebanon. According to a speech delivered in early 1987 by
former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman David F.
Durenberger (R-MN), the CIA’s then-director, William J.
Casey, “changed the rules of the game” by authorizing the
recruitment of an Israeli military officer, who, unhappy with
the invasion, offered the CIA classified information about
the U.S. government.
Israeli spying activities in the United States were siad
to have been ongoing for “years” when John Davitt, former
head of the U.S. Justice Department’s internal security
division, was interviewed by The Washington Post.
Retired since 1980, Davitt was responsible for reviewing
all espionage cases pending at the Justice Department. He
said Israeli intelligence services were “more active than
anyone by the KGB [former Soviet intelligence service] …
They were targeted on the United States about half the time,
and on Arab countries about half the time.”
Pulitzer Prize-winning author Seymour M. Hersh writes in
The Sampson Option that Pollard gave Israel top-secret U.S.
intelligence on the Soviet Union, and former Isreli Prime
Minister Yitzhak Shamir approved passing on some of the most
important of that information to the Soviets.
Hersh’s book, a well-documented account of the
development of Israel’s nuclear weapons program, insists
Pollard was recruited by Mossad in 1981–three years earlier
than the U.S. espionage charges against him alleged. Hersh
claims Israel has a portion of its nuclear arsenal targeted
on the former Soviet Union, and that Pollard was recruited by
the Mossad to gain sensitive targeting data for these Israeli
nuclear weapons.
“The nuclear targeting data supplied by Pollard included
top-secret intelligence on the location of Soviet military
targets,” Hersh writes. “Some of the most important Pollard
documents were retyped and sanitized by Israeli intelligence
officials and then made available to the Soviet Union as a
gesture of goodwill, at the specific instructions of Yitzhak
Shamir.”
According to George Carver’s assessment of the documents
stolen by Pollard, “sanitization” would be difficult. “[The
documents were in] such detail,” said Carver in 1985, “that a
professional analyst could discern what U.S. collection
systems must have been used to acquire these data, the
capabilities and limitations of those systems, and even, in
some cases, likely identities of human agents.”
Confirmation of the concerns expressed by Hersh and U.S.
law enforcement officials regarding infiltration of Israeli
intelligence by foreign powers can be found by a careful
reading of the Israeli press. Over the past six months, four
spy scandals have occurred in Israel involving secret “moles”
who infiltrated the Israeli government to supply the ex-
Soviet Union with “political and military intelligence.”
Reuters reports that “two more spy cases would be revealed
shortly.”
The most highly placed of these espionage agents is
Shimon Levinson, the former head of security in the prime
minister’s office. Levinson, who was once a colonel in the
Israeli intelligence service, has been sentenced to prison
for 12 years for spying on behalf of the KGB.
_____________________________________________________________
Tim Kennedy, an analyst based in Washington, DC, writes about
defense technology and foreign affairs.

=====

The Electronic Telegraph Wednesday 27 March 1996 World News

By Hugh Davies in Washington

AMERICA is resisting renewed pressure from Jerusalem to release Jonathan
Pollard, a United States naval intelligence officer who spied for Israel.

Pollard, 43, passed some of America’s most sensitive military secrets to
Israel in the early Eighties to help Jerusalem to combat terrorism and
threats from Iraq.

He is eligible for parole from a prison at Butner, North Carolina, where he
has spent most of the last decade.

Senior national security officials strongly oppose his release before the
statutory date of 2015. the White House chief-of-staff, Leon Panetta, said
there was no chance of clemency “at this time”.

However, a powerful effort is under way to free him, from the Israeli
government and prominent American Jewish organisations.

Pollard’s supporters contend that he delivered information as a matter of
conscience, although he was paid as much as $2,500 (£1,600) a month, plus
$300,000 paid into a Swiss bank account.

The Israeli consul in Atlanta, Eitan Surkis-Almog, has visited Pollard in
his cell, but the spy is said to have cut short the meeting, demanding a
visit from the Israeli ambassador to Washington, Itamar Rabinovich.

Pollard is said to have told the consul: “The Americans will never deal
seriously with my case if the Israeli government does not do so.”

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:23 PDT 1996
Article: 72482 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:20:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 7 Oct 1996 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 6 Oct 1996 03:51:30 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>> >> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:

>> >> When you’ve finished slogging through the man’s cheap shots, insanity,
>> >> spamming, ridicule, hatred, bizarre hypocrisy, trolling, Jew-bashing,
>> >> and insult after insult after insult after insult after disgusting
>> >> insult — nonsense which has continued for almost nine months — then
>> >> perhaps you’ll understand that intemperate language is quite normal in
>> >> this instance. Matt Giwer would try the patience of a saint, and we
>> >> don’t claim to be saints.
>
>> > Please note as well, his activities off the newsgroup. After sending me
>> >abusive e-mail Giwer was asked to stop. His reply was the single line “I am tired
>> >of your shit. Fuck off.” To emphasize his disregard of the rights of other he
>> >followed that communication with an e-mail of his anti-Semitic rants. Giwer’
>> >account at Netcom was suspended for this (among other reasons).
>>
>> > Sorry. To call Giwer pond scum is an insult to pond scum.
>>
>> Let us keep this straight, you are in violation of your oath as an officer
>> of the court or you are lying.

> What oath, criminal. Please tell me all about it.

The one you took, jew.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:24 PDT 1996
Article: 72497 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Fat Broads of Belsen
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:16:58 GMT
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And this one is just for little Danny Keren

In her book $I Was A Doctor In Auschwitz$, Gisella Perl, who ar-
rived at Belsen on March 7, 1945, reported open prostitution in
the camp: “there were some who sold their bodies for cigarettes,
chocolate and other small comforts.” According to her account,
liaisons between servicemen and female inmates were very common,
though one should not of course judge people harshly for acting
so in such terrible times. The one thing that can be said in Mrs
Turgel’s favour is that she rose far above this sort of thing and
remained happily married for over forty years.

Notice, oh CS major, that as late as March 7, 1945 they are prostituting
for the “small comforts” and not for food.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:24 PDT 1996
Article: 72498 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:21:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 66
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:21:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>> How many times do we have to tell this individual that he owns the
>>> burden of his own doubts? If an historian has a doubt he researches
>>> his doubt until it is satisfied using proper historical methods. Most
>>> good and well trained historians do not walk up to their colleagues
>>> and proclaim that accepted history is false and that they should prove
>>> it. What they will do is throw the works of history already done on
>>> the subject and tell him to do his own work. Blackmore/Belling or
>>> whoever doesn’t seem to be able to grasp this concept.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>No. You do not set the framework for who needs to prove what to whom.

>The rules of debate do. The rules of historical research do.

>>You are the prosecutors.

>I’m not. I simply look at the historical record. History is full of
>problematic areas that people have trouble dealing with. A small
>minority of dolts have trouble with the Jewish Holocaust for what
>seems to be only hate. I can’t think of any other reason.

>No one denies the the Salem trials and other American Puritan
>witch-hunts.

Sakem was the only one.

>No one denies various massacres of native Americans that were also
>based on hate.

Only those who know nothing about the subject fail to deny it.

>No one denies that Black’s were slaves.

>No one denies that John Brown was hung.

>No one denies the horrors of the post war world.

>No one denies the Russian Revolution.

>No one denies the American Revolution.

>No one denies the inquisition.

>No one seems to be denying the murder of gypsies, Russian POWs,
>homosexuals, the genetically ill, the retarded, and other none Jewish
>victims of the Nazis. What is so telling is the scope of the denial
>that is presented by the distortionists. This seems to zero in on the
>Jewish aspect of the Holocaust. This really topples the credibility of
>the deniers.

What is interesting is that we can’t even get passed the Jews to get around
to discussing the six million footnote.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:25 PDT 1996
Article: 72501 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:30:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:26:04 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>> m
>> I beleive it is you who are swept
>>> away with the plethora of data and information that makes up the truth
>>> of history in these two cases.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>Nice try, but it doesn’t fly. Nizkor states that Jewish people and others were
>>gassed at Dachau.

>URL? BTW, Nizkor is a group of volunteers and amateur historians. I
>think you need to focus on what you really have to deal with here and
>that isn’t Nizkor, but rather with the works of degreed historians and
>other qualified researchers on the holocaust.

And which of the two are you referring to?

To which EXACT verison of the contradictory and impossible versions are you
specifically referring to?

Specificity is required as there are too many versions. If one version is
dispatched some holohugger will bring up another version and swear by it.
Just like that idiot McVay and his people hearing laughter and seeing faces
of pilots from inside closed trucks.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:26 PDT 1996
Article: 72504 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:11:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 76
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:09:02 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>>
>> >John Morris ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>
>> >: It is rather telling that our great Holocaust researcher, rblackmore,
>> >: fails to recognize that Moran’s account does not match the standard
>> >: narrative history. For instance, no one but Moran has claimed that
>> >: gassing at Auschwitz was stopped four or five months before the camp
>> >: was captured by the Soviets.
>>
>> >I missed the beginning of this thread. Is the difference between moran’s
>> >claim and the truth significant, or is it just another example of his
>> >sloppy “research” methods?
>>
>> I was a little sloppy, too. Moran actually said that “it is said” that
>> gassing stopped at Auschwitz-Birkenau four or five months before the
>> Soviets captured the camp. I think he was trying to suggest that the
>> Soviets have been credited with an unrealistic prescience by
>> destroying evidence (the Kremas) so long before the Soviets occupued
>> the camp.
>>
>> The SS, however, began dismantling the Kremas after the gassing
>> stopped in November 1944, two months before the Soviets arrived.
>>
>> I dunno. Is a difference of two or three months vs two months
>> significant? Given the rate of the Soviet advance, allowing only two
>> months to remove capital assets from Birkenau was almost cutting
>> things too fine, since the Kremas were dynamited only days before the
>> Soviets arrived.
>>

>The “difference,” I think, has more to do with the German Army than with
>the plans of the SS to erase the evidence of genocide at Birkenau. Hitler,
>after being warned by Guderian in early January that the German forces on
>the Eastern front were overextended and needed to be reinforced and
>consolidated, failed to appreciate the precarioius position the German
>Army was in -and the dire threat a new offensive by the Red Army would
>pose.

>The result of Hitler’s egotism was that when the Red Army launched its
>January 12, 1944, offensive the German positions on the Eastern Front
>promptly collapsed, sending the German forces into a pell-mell retreat.
>This, of course, immediately- and unexpectedly -exposed the entire
>Auchwitz region to capture by the Red Army. The result was that all the
>plans and execution of the methodical erasure of the killings
>installations at Birkenau went right out the window around January 14,
>1944, as it became quite evident that the German lines would not hold.
>Thus, it was decided that the Auschwitz complex would be hastily abandoned
>on January 17, 1944, and was indeed evacuated starting the next day.

>In the panic of the evacuation, and almost as an afterthought, Kremas II,
>III, V, were dyanmited and the 30 storerooms in Kanada, holding plunder
>from the murdered victims, were torched.

Amazing. All of this suprise and the resultant panic were the reason the
Frank and Wiesel families were evacuated months before.

Do you ever look for consistancy in the things you believe?

The more I see you folks post, the less surprised I am that this holocaust
crap is still around.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:27 PDT 1996
Article: 72507 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is there no revisionist version of Nizkor?
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:14:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
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On 7 Oct 1996 18:12:05 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> There is the ever present holohugger fantasy that s aimple response is
>>a refutation. And then a presumption that a refutation is a negation.

> You mean simple responses like the ones at these URLs?:
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/leuchter.faq1
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/leuchter.faq2
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/shallit.report
>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/leuchter.fred/merck

> I think you will fin========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

You will recall from last time we had 2000 tons of bone
fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement of
5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I used
5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size
adult, the urn should have a capacity of at least 205 cubic
inches. Beyond that requirement, any shape, size and design is
acceptable and the only limitations is your imagination.

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to
fine at Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz.
This latter is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it
would cover three acres about one foot deep. However there a
convenient river there that has never been probed.

So back to Treblinka. There we have a 45 foot cube. Thus we
have enough to cover the five acres at Trblinka to a depth of 3.5
inches with bone fragments. But of course they were buried so at
some point coring would find a 3.5 inch thick layer of bone
fragments.

But of course folks like Keren keep muttering about 27 foot
deep core fragments. So let me address that for our applied
mathematician. The false assumption is that 27 feet means
anything. He assumes that 27 feet means distributed over the 27
foot core. The fallacy of that assumption is that a 1000 foot
core would not imply a 1000 distribution.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:28 PDT 1996
Article: 72508 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: Giwer… drunk yet again…. Re: Rev Bobbie Sch*ber
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:14:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:42:59 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On the other hand, you are a lying bitch. YOU made a claim about your son.
>> I pointed out only that your claim was impossible. I did not attack your
>> son, I attacked you as a liar about your son.

>The insult dishonors only its author.

Is that supposed to be profound or just the best you can do?

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:29 PDT 1996
Article: 72509 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:46:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:41:11 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such
># things but I am certain dickless Jews have given what the did
># find a proper Jewish burial and even prayed over horse hair
># as being jewish horses.

>The hair is there in Auschwitz. You have posted yourself that
>large amounts of it were found. Now you’re denying it?

I posted no such thing. I simply point out that there has never been
anything found made of pure jewess hair.

>Get a grip… I guess “get a job” is asking way too much.

Why do you think working for someone else is such an impressive
accomplishment? And the answer for you is that your feelings of self worth
are contingent upon others opinions of you. That is why you can not
deviate from holohuggery.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:29 PDT 1996
Article: 72517 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:56:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 12:05:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># I have posted the overall picture of Birkenau which included IV
># and V and they are as close to the barracks as the barracks are
># to each other.

>What is their location with regard to the SS HQ in Birkenau?

>What is the location of the so-called “bunkers”?

You tell me why you are asking the questions, jew traitor.

># There are no trees any where in sight.

>You must be blind.

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg

>These are not trees?

That is your captioning. I am posting the real pictures.

># Grow up and get a life beyond the holocaust.

>Please get a job and become a productive member of society, instead
>of a leech.

You self worth is totally enwrapped in what someone else will pay you.
That is pitiful.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:30 PDT 1996
Article: 72521 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:51:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:14:22 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>: [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>:
>: >A small rug, or doormat, made of human hair, was found and
>: >is now in Yad-Vashem. But more than that: huge amounts of
>: >human hair were found in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they are
>: >still there.
>:
>: A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such things

>Visit Yad Vashem.

Been there. Done that. Not impressed in the least.

>See Swiebocka: _Auschwitz: A History in Photographs_, 1993, p. 211.

Scan it in and post it.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:31 PDT 1996
Article: 72524 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:06:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 237
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:03 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

Lets start this off right. They were not in trains. They were in a truck
convoy. The words from the Nizkor approved post are

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Wagon train is a poor translation for truck convoy.

>[email protected] (Fergus McClelland) writes:

># For example, as you pretend not to know, may I refer you to the
># repeated posting of Ada Lichtmann’s testimony at the Demjanjuk trial.
># In her testimony, she speaks of the sound of the laughter of fighter
># pilots who were machine-gunning the boarded up train cattle car in
># which she was travelling, amongst other things. I would venture to
># suggest that it would not be possible for her to hear their laughter,
># nor even see their faces. To expand, (as you seem to be in naive and
># stupid mode at present).
># 1. The sound of a fighter plane engine is rather louder than that
># of a person laughing.

>The sound of a strong engine is loud indeed. However, sit in
>a car with a strong engine, rev it up, and scream. Will someone
>standing by hear you scream?

Keren, you silly shit. You sit inside of a closed truck (it is in the
Nizkor certified true post) and you claim you can see the faces and hear
the laughter of the pilots of fighter planes passing overhead at a minimum
of 100 mile per hour and a minimum of 100 feet in the air.

Any rational person knows that it would be a problem hearing laughter from
a hundred feet away in an open field much less under these conditions.

># 2. The sound of machine guns is louder than human laughter.

>Didn’t she explicitly say that she heard them laugh when they
>were not shooting?

Did you specifically BELIEVE that is possible from insitde the closed truck
under the above conditions or are you just trying to pull someone’s leg?

># 3. The cattle car in which Miss Lichtmann was travelling was boarded
># up, reducing any chance of reception of the higher frequencies of the
># human voice.

>Eh?

Is that Canadian or do you want the sound of the laughter repeated?

># 4. The dying, who were close to the witness, were screaming. This
># would tend to mask the sound of laughter from a pilot who was at least
># 50 or 60 feet away from Miss Lichtmann.

>Has it occurred to you that people can hear and identify many
>sounds at the same time, or during a very short time?

Have you really never been near a single engine plane where you have to
shout to be heard? And at hundred miles an hour? And at that height?

And here was this dumb broad (probably in the Keren family tree) being shot
at and looking out through the slats to see their faces. You folks are
really dumb but I can see where you got it.

># 5. The pilot might have been wearing an oxygen mask – which would
># have further reduced any escaping sound.

>At such a low height, he would have to wear an oxygen mask? What is
>this rubbish?

That is one point.

># 6. The cockpit of the fighter plane would probably have been closed –
># further reducing the escape of the sound of laughter.

>And if the pilot opened it?

Have you ever had a 100 MPH category 2 hurricane force winds hit you in the
face? The noise the wind would make in the cockpit would be lounder than a
shouting human voice. But then you know nothing of turbulent flow. You
are only a CS major.

>What you did was present testimony which may be false. I am not
>sure.

McVay and therefore Nizkor swears to it being true. You know that.

People in such a situation – being shot at – are, possibly,
>not the most accurate witnesses.

You miss the point. The entire idea of Germans firing on their own
equipment and materiel during the war is what is absurd. They would have
been shooting up their own trucks and drivers at the same time.

Do you not realize how stupid that sounds?

Then, you switch to the typical
>”revisionist” rubbish of “since this testimony is false, the
>Holocaust is a hoax”. So, since we have “testimony” about
>Dresden’s bombing which is obviously insane, we can, by the
>same “logic”, decide that the city was never bombed.

You are back to displaying your ignorance of what constitutes physical
evidence.

># Later in the same testimony, we hear of people being taken off the
># train and being forced to dance. Not impossible I grant you, but so
># impractical.

>The Nazis did practice this kind of “fun”. There are some rather
>well-known photos, of German soldiers brutalizing Jews (kicking
>them, cutting their beards).

That is not the subject but rather forcing people to dance naked. Any
other claims you wish to justify as true are up to you to demonstrate, they
are not assumed true simplly because you say them.

># This gives us:
># 60 / 7.9 = 7.594936708 minutes per body.

>But a few corpses (usually 3) were cremated in the same muffle.
>No big problem; this is not standard procedure, out of obvious
>reasons (respect for the dead, the need to collect the ashes of
>each separate corpse), but these were not factors in Birkneau.
>Moreover, there was a high percentage of children and infants
>among the victims, and their corpses occupy much less space.

Hey, silly shit. You have been directed to the website and what it says
has been pointed out to you many times. Three bodies takes three times
longer to burn. You know that. We all know that.

>These figures are supported by Nazi documents.

“Documents” do not change reality. It does not matter what they say. It
can not happen. BUT NONE claim 7.6 minutes per body even in the wildest
imagination of the forger.

>But perhaps the best refutation of this particular piece of
>”revisionist” rubbish is the fact that the Germans burned numerous
>corpses of people who died in Dresden, in rather the same
>method they burned corpses in some of the camps. I have
>posted to Nizkor’s site a photo of corpses being burned
>in that manner; one has to assume that, next, “revisionists”
>will claim that Jews and “Aryans” don’t burn in the same way?

Obviously they do not as Jews can be burned by a special method without
fuel. Obviously Jews are not only different but not of this world as they
burn differently and the bodies of their infants can be torn apart by a
man’s bare hands.

From the stories Nizkor is certitying as true, it is clear Jews are not of
this earth.

># Really Mr Keren, this is getting laughable. I refer you to the amount
># of ash, 6 or 7 pound weight per body, disposed of in Treblinka, a
># small site. If there were 1000,000 people cremated there, whether in
># pits or ovens, then there would have to be at least 6000,000 pounds of
># ash. That is a lot of volume of ash to be disposed of.

>Rubbish, plain and simple. In terms of volume, relative to the
>volume of earth in which the ashes were discarded, it’s tiny.

>You obviously cannot handle basic arithmetic. Reminds me of
>another “leading revisionist” in this group.

Really? A small volume? You do recall this do you not? 5200 cubic yards
is “small”?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

>Moreover, ashes and human remains *were* found, mixed with earth,
>up to a depth of 7.5 meters in Treblinka.

Along with finding hair and flesh after decades in the ground which is why
the story is clearly false.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 72527 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Silly shit giwer, why?
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:21:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 7 Oct 1996 11:47:34 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>[An ignorant sot said “You silly shit.”]

>> Oh look, a new Giwerism!!

>Not really – Mr. Giwer’s fascination with fecal matter is

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

2-7-96 @

Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has
asked me to design and fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I
have no idea where to start.Do you have design specifications?

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or
layers of these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the
layers. It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 72529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: let us review the sucker bait
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:41:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

For two days I post that the character assassination tactics of the
holohuggers are from the Protocols. After the first day, I start getting
demands that I post from the Protocols to prove it. On the second day, I
post words not from the Protocols that support the original claim and all
the questioning stops.

Why is that?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:33 PDT 1996
Article: 72530 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Twelve Year Grace Period / revised
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 03:39:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <534bg1$3ps@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <534o45$em1@news.enter.net> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 7 Oct 1996 21:45:21 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> No need to listen to a dickless oath violater such as yourself.

> Matt, are you going to sue Nizkor for copyright violation?

Not at the moment. For now I will simply continue to object and point it
out to those who I find carrying a link to Nizkor. And let them know just
what kind of organization they are supporting with the link.

On the other hand, after Nizkor has answered the libel suit from another
case soon to be filed, I have been offered all the help I want and all the
discovery from that case. That will give me a better determination as to
what Nizkor is worth and if worth the suit.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 72531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SciFi Channel Sightings
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:42:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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In the next episode there will be the ultimate eyewintess testimony to the
holocuast.

In his last life he was a Dutch Jew murdered by the Nazis.

Watch and believe.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org.80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:35 PDT 1996
Article: 72543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:50:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Oct 1996 15:18:10 -0700, Don’t Read wrote:

>In [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>> Moreover, ashes and human remains *were* found, mixed with earth,
>> up to a depth of 7.5 meters in Treblinka.

>Ashes can be good fertilizer, ask any small farmer.

>With the efficiency drive as part of the Holocaust, it’d be wasteful
>to discard the ashes, if I’m not mistaken.

Except that cremation does not produce ashes but burned bones which are
then crushed into fragments of some size for the urn. There is an internet
cremation society. Search for it and read for yourself.

The grinding size at Auschwitz was one centimeter by the sieve size.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:36 PDT 1996
Article: 72559 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Self-annointed Jews as atheist jews know
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 05:55:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:11:27 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 07:40:56 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:

>> Every atheist jew knows that jews are self-annointed and self righteous
>>assholes just like the Christian Coalition. They are all worthless and
>>meaningless slime of the earth.

>But you’re not an antisemite, are you, little man?

No more than I am anti-christian or anti-muslim or anti-Buddist. They are
all terminal idiots. There is no crime or approbrium to any of the above.

But even more idiotic than the idiots are those who abjure the religious
belief in Jewish by matrilineal descent and claim being jewish by
matrilineal descent.

Those are the ones the drooling idiots are able to pity.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:37 PDT 1996
Article: 72561 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE MANY-FACED ILYA EHRENBURG
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:00:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 96 06:54:52 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander
Baron) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] “Judith Toth” writes:

>>
>> >You’re missing the point. Practically no one here is interested in
>> >defending the Soviet Union, or Stalin, or even Ilya Ehrenburg if he did
>> >write the anti-German tracts which have been posted. Deniers often try
>> >to imply that to expose Nazi atrocities is to defend Soviet atrocities,
>> >but this is a twisted logic peculiar to deniers.

>No one here, maybe, obviously though you haven’t made a study of the make
>up of the “anti-fascist” movement, which in Britain, the US and France at
>least is dominated by the hard left.

And that objection is politically motivated as the left, in the US at
least, is primarily fascist in that it passes laws to force private
enterprise to promote politicla agendas. It also holds that everyone has
the bill of rights as a protection unless the person is an employer; making
employers second class citizens without any protections from the bill of
rights.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:37 PDT 1996
Article: 72564 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:17:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:08:18 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>> Lets just consider basical facts: if you put together 500 persons in a
>> 200 meter square room, you may expect a fantastic temperature increase,
>> such a number of people in a small room produce a lot of heat. Miloslav
>> Bilik have already done the calculus a while ago, it was about an increase
>> of 5 degrees each 20 seconds untill heat lost from the roof become too
>> much important. All those people during 20-30 minutes perspire a lot. A a
>> temperature of 35 or 40 celcius (more than 100 faranheit) especially when
>> they see people dying, they try to escape, their heart beat at an incredible
>> rate. Have you ever perspire in a sauna?

>It’s kind from your part, but my opinion was exactly in the opposite
>way. I agree obviously that a huge heating was to expect from the
>victims (in 525m^3 for 500 victims). I made this estimation to
>estimate the speedness of dissipating of Zyklon. But:

>1/ the walls and corpses were always washed after a gassing, then
>dissolved HCN was brought off the room;

Buzzer!!!!! There is only one eyewitness testimony to washing and the rest
of his testimony is either improbable or impossible. Please stop creating
holohugger myth as you go along.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:38 PDT 1996
Article: 72568 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denial
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 06:53:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 02:11:50 GMT, [email protected](Brooks W Angela) wrote:

> I’d like to share a story with this group. After reading so many
>delusioned souls who cannot accept the truth about 1033-1945, I feel
>compelled to try and enlighten them. The story is about a man we will
>call “Jack”. Jack died in 1990, after living his entire life as a
>devout Methodist. Jack was middle class and never enjoyed the good
>life. Jack had been adopted in 1936 and late in life decided to
>investigate his family roots. He knew that his mother and father had
>emigrated from England, but his mother had died on the ship and that
>was why he was given up. Upon research, he found that the ship had
>noted only one death, that of a Polish woman – a Jew. Through more
>genealogical work he discovered that his family was originally Prussian
>and Jewish. His family, like many upper class Polish families, was
>integrated with both Jewish and Catholic members. He interviewed some
>of the Catholic members of his family and found out that his parents
>had been fleeing for their lives, in fear of a Nazi takeover of East
>Prussia – namely Danzig. I ask you, what would this man have to gain
>by lying about the facts? He gained no money from Germany, never
>visited Israel and never even entered a synagogue. There have been
>MANY documented cases of adult adoptees discovering their true roots
>both in Poland and abroad. Wake up people!! Not everyone has something
>to gain by this “so-called” fabrication of the Holocaust.

>”Jack’s” granddaughter

His mother died on a ship on the high seas.

What is your point?

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:39 PDT 1996
Article: 72571 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:03:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:03:51 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># You even quoted the 80,000. To refresh your memory, it is
># again. Notice where it says 80,000 gassed or BURNED TO DEATH
># in a single night.

>He didn’t say that they were all killed in one night.
>That’s one lie you posted. The other lie you posted is that
>this testimony was given about Belsen, when in fact it was
>given about Auschwitz.

Then post the real testimony dickless jew traitor. Until you do, dickless
jew traitor, what I have posted stands.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:40 PDT 1996
Article: 72572 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Strange jewish attitudes about jews.
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:07:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 6 Oct 1996 13:38:09 GMT, Nele Abels-Ludwig
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[I wrote]
>>>Yawn! Lying again…

>>Gee, and it comes from an Israeli government source. How
>>strange.

>Yawn lying again. Else he would point triumphantly at this
>”Israeli government source” and say “You see, here it is!”.

>But he isn, because there is of course no “Israeli government
>source”.

>What a cheap, cheap lier.

Learn how to do a web search, dumbshit.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72574 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:03:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32551ab0.[email protected]> <5331mh$sfh@juliana.sprynet.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:42:38 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> How would you know if I made up some answers? But if you insist, try the
>> Salem witch trials. Torture was not employed.

>Since it is to be expected of a self-confessed liar, it is expected that
>you will fabricate a response. You could try, for once, to present a
>verifiable answer instead of your usual rhetoric. By the way, your
>statement about Salem witch trials, while it has NOTHING to do with the
>Holocaust, is still wrong.

Yes, dickless Jew handle, you are lying.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 08:34:42 PDT 1996
Article: 72580 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE MANY-FACED ILYA EHRENBURG
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:17:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:29:25 GMT, [email protected] (Judith Toth) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) quoted:
>———————————————————————
>>[email protected] (Judith Toth) who writes:
># You friend dr. Keren IS A first rate skeptical if not downwright
>># DENIER about the atrocities,– rape and bloody murder by the
>># Soviet hordes, — when he asked me for EVIDENCE.
>———————-
>DANIEL KEREN REPLIES: <<< If you people are going to play this game, >play it fair.
>By “revisionist” standards, you have to supply very strong
>physical and documentary evidence for this claim. For instance,
>they demand to see 6 million corpses of Jews as a proof for the
>Holocaust. – If you don’t have the evidence, then, by “revisionist”
>standards, you’re a liar and hatemonger. Do you have it? Yes or no?
>Or do you reject the “method” of “Holocaust revisionism”?
>You can’t have it both ways.
>Danny Keren.>>>
>=====================
>ANSWER TO D. KEREN:
>I see where you are heading with all this: you finally realized that
>you are painting yourself into a corner – even with your comrades help
>you can’t get anywhere – therefore you keep hammering on utter
>nonsense!
> You ask for PHYSICAL EVIDENCE only when it is safe and you know it is
>not possible to give, but when we document something you shove it
>aside and you and your friends reject it as “second,- and third-hand
>info.”
> Your “method of Holo-revisionism” already supplied the world with
>more than enough “EVIDENCE” …. thank you very much. However, there
>are always two sides to every coin and I feel yours has the same
>picture on both sides. You are also sitting in a one way street which
>can be annoying if you treat it to be a two way street. –

>Here are some novelties for your Holocaust-revisionism:
> “In 1937, Dr. Chaim Weizmann, President of World Zionism, said of
>Europe’s six million Jews, ‘They are dust in a cruel world. They must
>meet their fate. Only a branch shall survive. They must accept it.'”
>(Source: PERFIDY by Ben Hecht (p.149), Julian Messner, Inc. New York,
>1961.]

Thank you for another source of the term six million from 1937. It is good
to note again that an impossible number was known before it occurred.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 10:48:29 PDT 1996
Article: 80461 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.israel
Subject: Re: Israel provokes the end of peace
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 19:34:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <52g5vf$g[email protected]> <[email protected]> <1996Oct1.234322@hujicc>
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On 1 Oct 96 23:43:22 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Nobody writes:
>> [email protected] (Aaron D. Gross) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>> Israeli provokes the end of peace
>>>> by
>>>> Matt Giwer (c) 1996 <9/26>
>>>> I find no way out of this conclusion. The facts are simple.
>>>>Israel opened a tunnel that has been known for decades and has
>>>>known for decades that Palestinians would not accept it being
>>>>opened.
>>>
>>>Wrong. The Arabs had already said YES to the tunnel under Teddy
>>>Kollek’s mayorship, years ago, in 1988, in return for control of
>>>King Solomon’s Stables. Look it up.
>>
>> I’ll accept that without checking. And eight years passed without opening
>> the tunnel. Time changes circumstances. Islamic leadership in Jerusalem
>> should have been consulted and given a stake in the opening. Fos example,
>> part of the receipts could have been dedicated to the Wafq (or is it Waqf?).
>>

>Sigh …..

>The WAKF (Muslim Religious Council) not only knew about the opening
>of the tunnel, they AGREED to it since in return, they received
>permission to have Muslim prayers in the area of Solomon’s Stables
>(a Jewish area) adjacent to the Temple Mount.

I hate to ask but does that group have a place at the negotiating table? Does
it have any political authority?

To be specific, just what makes that group’s agreement any different from you
agreeing to it?

>All that happened was that a DOOR (one meter wide and 2 meters high)
>was opened from the tunnel (built 2200 years ago and which is located
>640 feet from the nearest Muslim holy place) to near the Via Dolorosa.
>The tunnel is barely a meter wide and only one person at at time can
>pass through. A door was opened for tourists to be able to enter through
>one side and exit through a new second side (instead of having to walk
>back single file to the point of origin).

That was quite enough when the political control of Jerusalem is on the
negotiating table. Of course, Netanyahu appears to be under the impression that
he has the unilateral power to take things off the table. And of course he
would be the first to cry foul were Arafat to take something off the table such
as all jewish settlements in occupied territory.

Either both sides have the power or neither side has the power.

>>>The Palestinians simply wanted an excuse, any excuse, to test their
>>>new Labor-armed army of 30,000 “policemen” (sic). All reports
>>>indicate that the “riots” were tightly coordinated and that the only
>>>person capable of that was Arafat. If Bibi had sneezed at midnight
>>>near the Temple Mount and a Jew had responded “G-d bless you!” too
>>>loudly, THAT would have been taken as sufficient provocation.

>> There is no doubt that tensions have been high. The withdrawls promised have not
>> all been carried out. Why provide the spark.

>Yup, all the YAHUD should slit their throats. After all, that JEWS should
>have any rights ??? 🙂

Of course they have rights as well as obligations to live up to their
agreements.

>> There are two possibilities:
>>
>> 1. Simple insensitivity.

>How about lying and cheating on the part of the WAKF who reneged on their
>deal ? But of COURSE, it ALWAYS has to be that the dirty Jews ™ are
>guilty 🙂

Until to provide some evidence this group you refer to has any standing to make
a deal on behalf of all Palestinians that has no meaning.

>>>Note that the ratio of killed Israelis versus Arabs is higher than in
>>>any of the wars. This Palestinian success will be exploited for
>>>acquiring greater support and materiel from Syria, Iran, Libya, etc.
>>>50 martyrs, to them, will be a huge public relations coup and will
>>>solidly put Arafat back in the graces of those who said he was
>>>kowtowing to Israel.
>>
>> So why was the spark ignited?

>Tell me, Arafat needs an excuse ????

He has kept the peace in areas he controls until this provocation was given.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 17:17:20 PDT 1996
Article: 72733 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:35:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <52vhat[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 05:11:49 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>>>>Well, then it is up to prove to us that these non-existent people existed and were gassed.

>>>Train passenger records and ticket sales. Try reading some of the
>>>transport records.

>> All of those people are accounted for. What are you referring to?

>The records of the railways show that 1.5 million people were
>transferred to Auschwitz. Records of transfers to other camps, to
>subcamps, releases, deaths from disease, and a few escapes account for
>400,000 of those people.

>Please direct me to a source that accounts for the other 1.1 million.

I guess you are going to first have to direct me to the records of these
1.5 million. I asked after such records earlier this year and I was
informed there were no such records.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 17:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72735 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:42:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:38:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>## Our desperate Nazi-apologists claim that they are the only ones
>## who know what happened in the camps, although
>##
>## A) They were not in them during the war.

># Note: Danny Keren claims to be an authority on what happened
># inside and outside of the camps, yet he was never in them.

>No, Nazi-boy. Unlike you, I don’t claim to know better than
>each and every one who was in them.

So you believe all the impossible and contradictory things they report? Of
course you do. And anyone who does not believe the impossible or know
conflicts means all but one is lying, gets treated to a little name calling
>from someone so fixated on the subject that he has been spamming the same
selective quotes for at least four years.

>## B) There is not one single witness who was in them during the
>## war, who supports the Nazi-apologetic version.

># Paul Rassinier was.

>That’s one. Good for you. However, I don’t count Rassinier, as
>he was not in any of the camps in which the large-scale murder
>in gas chambers took place.

Will you accept Nyszli? That is a trick question of course but even YFE
insists he was there.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 18:37:51 PDT 1996
Article: 72740 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 19:20:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <53d009$d[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>[snip]

>>Don’t worry about the color….it was described by Artur
>>Breitweiser, Chief of Disinfestation at Auschwitz. By the
>>way, he was declared Not Guilty at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trials.
>>Better start runing before the collapsing Holocaust story falls right
>>on your head.

>The collapsing Holocaust story?

>Thank you for finally clarifying that you are in fact a Holocaust
>denier.

It is unclear how observing the collapse of the stories makes one a
“denier.” Which particular story is one considered to be denying? The 4.5
million Auschwitz story for example?

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 19:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 72746 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Twelve Year Grace Period / revised
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 00:08:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <534bg1$3ps@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <534o45$em1@news.enter.net> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 23:34:32 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> > Matt, are you going to sue Nizkor for copyright violation?
>>
>> Not at the moment. For now I will simply continue to object and point it
>> out to those who I find carrying a link to Nizkor. And let them know just
>> what kind of organization they are supporting with the link.

>Your hesitation in suing, when you (erroneously) claim to suffer an
>infringement of copyright is, arguably, tantamount to an implicit consent,
>granting the right to Nizkor to maintain the very articles which you
>allegedly (and wrongly) claim to be a violation of your copyright. But
>then, that is really moot, since no violation of copyright exists, except
>perhaps within your feeble mind.

Another legal genius speaks. I have objected and been refused. They three
of them remain in violation. After I get the disclosure from the other
suit being filed against them it will be easier to determine the most
advantageous course of action.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 19:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72747 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 20:14:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> > : What is the relevance of his birth certificate?
>
>> Let’s first prove he existed before we quote from his book. This “witness”
>> NEVER testified in front of an allied court. No historian from the west
>> ever met him or conducted an interview with him.

> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

Ah, yes, the man of the mauve ZB. Would you buy a used holocaust from a
man like that, dickless?

>> > Perhaps you should produce yours, so we know you exist and are not just a
>> > denier bot.
>
>> I haven’t made criminal accusations against people.

> You most certainly have. As one example you have, falsely, accused
>the investigators of the Malmedy massacre of phsyically torturing German soldiers to
>extract confessions.

You mean you are still holding to your position that they all had their
attorneys present during all questioning?

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 20:22:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72751 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 20:36:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

Mauving right along, would you care to demonstrate that others knew him?
Would you provide his signature under the oath he took in swearing that ZB
is mauve?

And do you realize the Chuckle Fairy claims to have a book that the good
doctor wrote in 1960 which is the source of all these claims that he in
fact gave a deposition?

This book is also the source of the ONLY claim that “red cross vans” were
used to transport people from “selection” to the gas chambers.

This is also the source of the claim that the one room in the LK was filled
with 3000 naked men, women and children — the first co-ed gassing report.

This is also the man who claims the single room in the LK was at least 90
feet long, something only our resident math whiz believes.

Do you never find it interesting that no two people ever describe the same
thing if they go into any detail at all?

One survivor, one holocaust. To each his own.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Red Cross inspections of Auschwitz (was Re: Anne Frank)
From: Chuck Ferree
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:34:52 +0000

Chuck Ferree wrote:

I’ve checked all my books on Auschwitz, and did find references to
“Red Cross” vans in a book written by a Hungarian Jewish doctor who
worked for Mengele and survived. The book was first published in 1960,
translated into English and copyrighted in 1993. I’ll select only
items which may have a bearing on the Red Cross.
The title is: AUSCHWITZ A Doctor’s Eyewitness Account, by Dr. Miklos
Nyiszli

Dr. Mengele, the medical “selector” made a sign. They lined up again
in two groups. The left-hand column included the aged, the crippled,
the feeble and women with children under fourteen. The right-hand
column consisted entirely of able-bodied men and women: those able to
work. In this later group I noticed my wife and fourteen year old
daughter. We no longer had any way of speaking to each other; all we
could do was make signs. Those too sick to walk, the aged and insane,
were loaded into Red Cross vans. (The Dr. worked for Mengele doing
disections and other medical work. This is after a gas chamber is
filled with 3,000 naked men, women and children.) …The doors swung
shut and from without the lights were switched off. At that very
instant the sound of a car was heard: a delux model, furnished by the
International Red Cross. An SS officer and a SDG Deputy Health Officer
stepped from the car. The Deputy Health Officer held four green
sheet-iron canisters. He advanced across the grass, where every thirty
yards short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned
his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of
concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents–a mauve
granulated material–into the opening. (The Dr. writes that within
five minutes everyone was dead). …For every convoy it was the same
story. Red Cross cars brough the gas from the outside. There was never
a stock of it in the crematorium. The precaution was scandalous, but
still more scandalous was the fact that the gas was brought in a car
bearing the insignia of the International Red Cross. (this book
contains a great deal of information about what the doctor did while
in the camp. No mention of official inspections by the International
Red Cross.

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 21:34:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:30:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 17:30:11 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> I am saying nothing new. Only now I have so many impossible eyewitness
>>tesimonies to deal with. And all courtesy of the holohuggers.

> Derek

Is this a contribution?

From [email protected] Tue Oct 8 22:50:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72769 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: God’s Chosen? [from houston.general]
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:04:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <53[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2988 alt.revisionism:72769

On 8 Oct 1996 09:37:47 -0700, [email protected] (Rich Graves) wrote:

>In other words, the neo-Nazi organization I work with, the National
>Alliance, loses every argument in every open forum,

You do?

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72773 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:29:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Oct 1996 12:29:10 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
>>
>> # 33 years before he testified as an eye witness who saw people
>> # being gassed. But Muench didn’t even bothered himself to build
>> # a coherent story by picking up officials informations before to
>> # testify. He placed the crematoria and the gas chamber building
>> # one or 1 1/2 kilometer on the sout west of Birkenau camouflaged
>> # in a small woods. It can’t be even a misunderstanding with the
>> # 1942 farmhouse:
>>
>> He’s probably referring to Krema IV or V, which were surrounded
>> by trees. Moreover, one of the “bunkers” was used again during
>> the summer of 1944.
>>

> page 315:

> Q- Would you describe briefly where this extermination was carried
> out, particularly the locality?

> A-The extermination plant was located at Birkenau. The crematoria and
> gas chambers were located one to one and a half kilometer South
> west of the Birkenau, camouflaged in a small woods.

> Q-What purpose did the crematoria serve?

> You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4 and 5’ ??
> 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau???? and he confused a small wood with
> a couple of trees???
> One of the farmhouse ‘equiped with crematorias’??? 1,0-1,5 km South
> West of Birkenau???

It often amazes me how far this clown will go in supporting what are so
obviously losing positions. He has to work to come up with this stuff; no
one can be born that dumb.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 72776 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!condor.ic.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 100 to 0, The Jewish Preference for Odds
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:12:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 15:33:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> A pathetic situation. If I, Tom Moran, was ethnocentrically
>fixated on any heritage in my history, I would be ashamed if any
>members of this heritage were engaged in what the Jews get into.

Particularly if if involved a “gas me, don’t shoot me” attitude.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 00:09:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72781 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Three-Bergen Belsen, Brian Harmon, and Me
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:44:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 07:55:10 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>> It’s true: most of the victims in Belsen camp died from
>> starvation and from typhus. Since no one cared enough to
>> feed them, or to give them water, or to make any effort
>> whatsoever to save them, they died.
>>
>> This is murder just as shooting or gassing someone is murder;
>> it only takes more time and is more painful.
>>
>>
>> -Danny Keren.
>>
>>
>>>>>
>After the British took over the camp they were faced
>with the same problems as Kramer, but have no fear-
>the British are here—and funny thing, in spite of food,
>water, and medicine and quality care 28,000 more died.

And the typhus was so bad the brits burned 60 barracks in an attempt to
control it.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:56 PDT 1996
Article: 72795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsgate.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 06:29:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <53e6vk$eg[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 22:25:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> the criminal [email protected] (Matt Giwer) liers again:
>
>> I guess you are going to first have to direct me to the records of these
>> 1.5 million. I asked after such records earlier this year and I was
>> informed there were no such records.

> The criminal Giwer is lying again. He was told where the records could
>be found. He was even told that enlargements of some of them are on display at
>the Houston Holocaust Museum. The criminal was told that the records are not
>complete. He now chooses to lie about what he was told.

A dickless jew manufactures more evidence. You should get a job at the
White House.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:57 PDT 1996
Article: 72797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reply to Mike Curtis
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:03:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 13:16:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>>
>> Transports do not equal murder. Many German Jews were deported
>> to Riga.

> Where they were murdered.

I presume you have autopsey reports for these, too?
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 72803 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:22:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:04:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer)
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## He didn’t say that they were all killed in one night.
>## That’s one lie you posted. The other lie you posted is that
>## this testimony was given about Belsen, when in fact it was
>## given about Auschwitz.

># Then post the real testimony

>It’s in “The Belsen Trial”, testimony of Dr. Bendel. It’s
>easy to find. I’ll type some in later.

In the mean time, the claim for the number gassed OR burned to death stands
regardless of which camp was supposed to be involved and that claim is
idiotic, stupid and a clear and deliberate lie. It is only brain dead
holohuggers who defend such claims.

># dickless jew traitor.

>Grow up, for God’s sake. You’re 51-years-old. At least that’s
>what you said.

Quite old enough to recognize a traitor when I see one.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 72804 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:51:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:05:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Matt Giwer writes:

># Read the information holohuggers fear
># http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

>Web site of Hitler admirer, who wrote (on GEnie) that
>”Hitler was a great man”, and “the best thing that could
>have happened to Germany”

And just what sticks in your craw about there? There are a lot of people
who admire otherwise dispicable creatures. For example many terrorists are
so greatly admired by so many people that they are elected to high office.
Chaim Weitzman and Menachem Begin are examples. Other conscienceless
terrorists have held high appointed office such a Shamir.

># http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

>Web site of an insane person, who believes that the Nazi
>leadership fled the Reich using “secret UFO’s”, and are
>now hiding in the inner earth, which they entered via a
>”hole in the South-Pole”. He even claims to have met some
>of the scientists who built the “UFO’s”…

At the time he was no different that the US military. But you know that.

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers

>Contains both text and images from Zundel’s publications
>about these “UFO’s”.

>Quoted from one of these publications (see saucers.text):

Did Nizkor get permission to use his material? One more reckless disregard
of the law by Nizkor.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 72813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OBSERVATIONS
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:08:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:36:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Fergus McClelland) writes:

># First, from the Ministry of Agriculture Fisheries and Food, who
># transferred me to their Animal Health Disease Control Department.

>Thanks for posting this information. Can you post their address, so
>I can write them?

># The deaths were as follows:
>#
># Cattle 214,900
># Sheep 108,835
># Pigs 118526
># Goats 57
>#
># All the animals were slaughtered and incinerated on the
># farms where they were found and the partially burned remains
># were buried in enormous pits – again, at the same farms.

>How much time did it take to incinerate the dead animals?

>Also, can you make any comment on:

>1) The Jahrling letter to Kammler, and other sources, on the
> cremation power of the Auschwitz-Birkenau furnaces?

>2) How many corpses do you suggest could be cremated in these
> furnaces? They had 52 large cremation furnaces. Assuming,
> say, that each could burn 15 corpses a day – and this is
> most obviously a serious underestimate – we have, per year,
> 15*52*360 = 280,800 corpses.

Why would anyone assume a number than can not be duplicated today?

> Can you offer any rational explanation as to why a “work
> camp”, built to hold a few tens-of-thousands of inmates,
> needed this astounding cremation power?

Can you explain what your absurd assumption has to do with the real
capacity?

Can you explain why you have a toilet that has the capacity to handle at
least fifty people? A stove that can feed at least 100 people a day? A
garbage disposal that can process a half ton of waste a day?

You must be violating the housing laws on number of occupants with
equipment of that capacity.

>3) Re disposing of corpses by burning them on pyres: this was
> done in Dresden, after the mass murder of German civilians
> in that city by British bombers. I have posted a photo, which
> shows a huge pyre of corpses being burned. Are you suggesting
> this worked only in Dresden, and that it would not have worked
> for burning victims in the death camps and in the sites of the
> “Einsatzgruppen” massacres?

The problem of course is that there are no signs of such mass burnings on
any of the aerial photos of any of the places where it was supposed to have
happened. That means, not the slightest sign in any manner or form.
Stories of self proclaimed witnesses are one thing, the lack of
corroborating physical evidence is something else entirely.

But the, the little jew traitor, knows that.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 72829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:14:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:38:36 -0400, Chris DeNeve
wrote:

>Why should I believe the holocaust really happened. I have seen no
>conclusive evidence. Just some old guy came to my school and said
>that the fact he had numbers tatooed on his hand was proof.

According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is evidence that
there was no gassing. His very existance, if he claims he is jewish, means
the intent to exterminate Jews was either not there or missed the obvious.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 72834 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer’s Ingorance Expands
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:22:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 19:53:41 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>I wrote:

>>URL? BTW, Nizkor is a group of volunteers and amateur historians. I
>>think you need to focus on what you really have to deal with here and
>>that isn’t Nizkor, but rather with the works of degreed historians and
>>other qualified researchers on the holocaust.

>And Giwer responded.

> “And which of the two are you referring to? ”

>Researchers (plural) or historians (plural) makes up a heck of a lot
>more people than two. People of average intelligence can read the
>English language even if they can’t deal honestly with the historical
>events. I guess you are not one of those, but we know that already.

To which two historians are you referring?

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 72838 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Three-Bergen Belsen, Brian Harmon, and Me
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:13:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:23:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

># After the British took over the camp they were faced
># with the same problems as Kramer, but have no fear-
># the British are here—and funny thing, in spite of food,
># water, and medicine and quality care 28,000 more died.

>They died because they were already in a hopeless state,
>after being treated by your great hero, Joseph Kramer. Had
>the Brits arrived a few days later, probably no inmate would
>have survived.

If their state was “hopelss” why did the Brits bother burning 60 barracks
to control the epidemic?

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:03 PDT 1996
Article: 72845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:59:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:49:12 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>This so-called FAQ is a total mess! You start out with a litany of
>excuses for why you couldn’t do enough research (working hard and all),
>then you expect us to accept your “reliable sources” and non-cited
>commentary as research? Give us all a very large break, J-F!

>> The present FAQ was written by me in 1996 but Alexander Baron brought a
>> couple of suggestions and corrections and revised the english syntax. It
>> is modified sometimes.
>>
>> CREMATORIA
>>
>> The first section of this FAQ deals with crematoria in Birkenau. The
>> Revisionist claim is usually supported by the affirmations of Ivan Legace,
>> a crematory operator from Calgary who has been subjected to smear attacks
>> from the Holocaust lobby in alt.revisionism. I hadn’t really the time to
>> involve myself on this topic, I’m working 40 hours a week, and I’ve no
>> connection with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which can raise billions of
>> dollars for the construction of Holocaust Museums. However, I never heard
>> about any crematory operator who was produced in a court case by the Ho-
>> locaust lobby to support the claim that 4 bodies can be reduced to ashes
>> in 30 or 45 minutes in a crematory oven.

>Court case? Which court cases have had SOnderkommando as witnesses and
>what did THEY say?

They said things that were then and still are impossible. That it why they
are worthless as witnesses.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:04 PDT 1996
Article: 72846 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Arabs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:18:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:56:39 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Walt Hingerty writes:

># I dont have an agenda. But I am curious about something.
># What is the legal status of Palestinians who are born
># within the borders of Israel.
>#
># Are they considered Israeli citizens?

>Yes; as a matter of fact, about 20 percent of Israel’s
>citizens are not Jews, but Moslems, Christians, and Druze
>(there are some other much smaller minorities, such as
>Karaites, Samaritans, and Bahaisy).

They used to be 80%. What happened? Are they really all in refugee camps?

># Are they allowed to vote

>Of course. There are also non-Jews in the Israeli Parliament
>(“Knesset”). I don’t know the number, though. If you post to
>talk.politics.mideast and/or soc.culture.israel, someone will
>probably tell you how many.

># or serve in the military?

>Most don’t serve in the army, although many Druze and Bedouins do.

They are not permitted to so as you know.

># I have heard that only persons of the Hebrew faith have full civil
># rights in Israel. Is this so?

>No.

Unfortunately, correct in regard to military service and being hired by the
Mossad.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 72847 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Arabs
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:19:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 16:45:55 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Walt Hingerty wrote:

>>I dont have an agenda. But I am curious about something. What is the
>>legal status of Palestinians who are born within the borders of Israel.
>>Are they considered Israeli citizens? Are they allowed to vote or serve
>>in the military? What is the status of Arabic Christians or Europaen
>>Christians who are also born and live in Israel? I have heard that only
>>persons of the Hebrew faith have full civil rights in Israel. Is this
>>so? Thanks in advance. walt

>Mr. Hingerty,

>This discussion is really not relevent to alt.revisionism. This
>newsgroup is about the denial of the Holocaust. To answer your question,
>however, Israeli Arabs have the right to vote; there are Arab parties in
>the Knesset (the Israeli Parliament). Do they have full civil rights?
>That may be a harder question. Do African-Americans have full civil
>rights in the USA? According to the law they do, but reality is a
>different story.

You forget yourself.

I determine what is appropriate to a.r.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:07:06 PDT 1996
Article: 72855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pollard of course
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 00:26:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 08:42:59 -0400, [email protected] (Sara aka
Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[long, off-topic article snipped]
>
>Mr. Giwer:
>
>Just because you’re a Jew-hater and Pollard is a Jew, does not mean that
>this discussion belongs in alt.revisionism.
>
>It doesn’t.
>
>Please find some other place to deposit your hatred of Israel.

The topic cop is back. Pollard was a spy who was bought by our friends the
Israelies. Our Israeli friends resold some of the information to our
other friends the Soviets. Some of OUR people had fatal accidents because
of what he sold.

Israel fits this conference very well.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 08:58:33 PDT 1996
Article: 72877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For the enrichment of NIZKOR’s archives!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 01:26:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:18:16 GMT, [email protected] (Judith Toth) wrote:

>A FREE DONATION FOR THE ENRICHMENT
>OF THE ARCHIVES OF THE NIZKOR PROJECT
>
> According to the politically correct Zionist organizations, “the
>symbolical number of 6 million Jews perished in WW II is a proven
>historical fact” and nobody should even dare to have any doubts or
>questions about it, … indeed Dr. Chaim Weizmann (president of
>Israel in 1948) president of the World Zionist Organization on
>November 25th, 1936 declared the “6 million” number to be symbolic of
>the Jewish destiny. [Source: Chaim Weizmann: Reden und Aufsatze
>1901-1936. jud. Bucherverlag Erwin Lowe, Berlin 1937)

Another discovery of the magic six million number before it became famous.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:39 PDT 1996
Article: 72901 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:30:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <3[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 10:48:45 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>tom moran wrote:

>>
>> Background levels taken properly, would be to take samples from a
>>number of places and then compare the readings from the intended
>>sample to the average of these other readings.

>That’s essentially what was done Mr. Moran, although taking an average
>among several different samples rather than an average of the three
>measurements of an individual sample would be incorrect.

“Once or never” fumigated means they can all be in the NEVER category and
thus are meaningless as a baseline for deterioration over time. But you
know that. But you also know that you will pervert the scientific method
to support your precious and nonexistant gas chambers.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:40 PDT 1996
Article: 72906 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:34:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 03:55:08 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 07:08:18 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
>>Bilik) wrote:

>>>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>>>> Lets just consider basical facts: if you put together 500 persons in a
>>>> 200 meter square room, you may expect a fantastic temperature increase,
>>>> such a number of people in a small room produce a lot of heat. Miloslav
>>>> Bilik have already done the calculus a while ago, it was about an increase
>>>> of 5 degrees each 20 seconds untill heat lost from the roof become too
>>>> much important. All those people during 20-30 minutes perspire a lot. A a
>>>> temperature of 35 or 40 celcius (more than 100 faranheit) especially when
>>>> they see people dying, they try to escape, their heart beat at an incredible
>>>> rate. Have you ever perspire in a sauna?

>>>It’s kind from your part, but my opinion was exactly in the opposite
>>>way. I agree obviously that a huge heating was to expect from the
>>>victims (in 525m^3 for 500 victims). I made this estimation to
>>>estimate the speedness of dissipating of Zyklon. But:

>>>1/ the walls and corpses were always washed after a gassing, then
>>>dissolved HCN was brought off the room;

>> Buzzer!!!!! There is only one eyewitness testimony to washing and the rest
>>of his testimony is either improbable or impossible. Please stop creating
>>holohugger myth as you go along.

>Sorry. You can get many testimonies saying where the water was fought
>and used for washing. From the “both” sides witnesses (US and URSS)
>and corroborating.

>Bzzzzz…..

Sorry about your unfortunate attempt at creating a lie but early this year
I was pointing out the need to hose down the entire chamber as well as the
corpses for bodily function reasons (slipping on shit) and no one posted
any claim of any hosing or washing. Nor was I referred to any. Nor has
any such testimony been found on any of the holohuggers sites.

Other than that, nice try, but you rose to the bait admirably.

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 13:25:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72914 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SciFi Channel Sightings
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:26:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 10
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On 11 October, don’t miss it. Holocaust witnesses are so scarce they have
to remember it by remembering their previous lifes. He remembers being a
Dutch Jew murdered by the Nazis.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Wed Oct 9 20:00:41 PDT 1996
Article: 72945 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:28:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <52[email protected]> <52vcuk[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <53eat3$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:31:47 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Well, as expected the “major” avoided answering any questions which
>would help his credibility. Still a shadowy figure out there some
>place looking for garbage, and by golly this turkey seems to find some
>good garbage.

>Ursus Major wrote:
>>

>>
>> *Chuck Ferree wrote:
>> *
>> *Gotta hand it to the artists. Must work for Disneyland. I’ve tromped
>> *all over this place twice. July 1945, September 1994, a week each
>> *time. The artist has it pretty close, but the entire layout is more
>> *fiction than fact. It’s a good piece of work, but after all, someone
>> *decided to interpret what they percieved from a very poor set of
>> *aerials and practically every site is mis-named.
>> *
>> *Where, I ask Giwer, is the friggin’ 18 hole golf course, which the
>> *Russians and Americans played several times under PGA rules? ( I, a
>> *poor golfer then and still am, shot an 86)

>Don’t accept this satire. There was no golf course at Auschwitz. There
>was a swimming pool,

And a sauna.

which was used by the commandant and his ranking
>friends. There were no heated barracks for inmates,

Then what are those chimneys on their roofs for?

their barracks
>were un-insolated,

You mean the sun didn’t shine on them?

and at the top of each and every barrack, both
>men’s and women’s, it was open. In other words, the top of each
>barrack had about a four foot open space, open for the miserable
>winter cold, rain and snow. No way to keep warm.

Funny that those are not on the pictures of the barracks.

>> *Matt Giwer wrote:
>> *>
>> *> On 8 Oct 1996 15:15:48 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>> *> wrote:
>> *>
>> *> >Ursus Major
>> *
>> *hey ursus corporal, tell me who you really are, your credentials, and
>> *maybe I’ll recruit some real marines to give you a hand. 🙂
>> *chuckles

>Guess you want to keep hiding..huh? Well that says a lot about people.
>Most former marines are proud of their service to their country, and I
>don’t know of a single one out of the many former WW-II Marine
>buddies, who would be chicken-shit and prefer to hide. But here we got
>one, who probably was 4-F or unfit for military service, or sectioned
>eight out, or something which is hidded in his past and he wants to
>keep it that way. Must be a coward too.

Now you were a Marine too? What was their left for Eisenhower to do in
that war?

>> * ([email protected]) wrote:
>>clips

>> No, they’re arial photographs, my SENILE observant.

>Bullshit, there are no aerial photos to look at, only good drawings,
>which mis-label 99% of the camp. Any artist could do that, pal. It’s
>good work, but phoney.

Considered the US pictures were first published by the CIA you are making
quite an allegation. By any chance do you see black helicopters?

Given that the US pictures are some of the same ones carried by Nizkor, you
really should explain to them how they have been taken in by drawings.

Perhaps the easiest solution is for you to get an eye examination.

>> Played golf in ’45 (say, age 25) with Uncle Joe’s troops?

>Hey, man, I had my 21st birthday June 30th. 1945…that would make me
>twenty-one years old. By April 1945, I had 67 combat missions under my
>belt, mostly in P-47 Thunderbolts. I was one day older, than the
>youngest man in my squadron. We were men then, pal. Where were you
>when you celebrated your 21st birthday? Common don’t be shy. Tell us.
>>

> That means our SENILE friend is pushing 80 or lying–or both!
>> Did a walk-around (or pushed around in a wheel-chair?) 50 years later
>> … and mind’s as sharp as a tack!

>You can’t even do math as good as your lying pal, Giwer. I work out
>every day.

But most people do not consider that passing stool should be a workout.

>Fit as a fiddle, can still get into my pinks.

A TV also.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 01:08:06 PDT 1996
Article: 72959 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,mtl.general,qc.general
Subject: Re: QUEBEC LEADER OPPOSES JEWS
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 23:56:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
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References: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:45:41 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Yes, Villeneuve was a former leader of the Quebec FLQ.

>Yes, he has called for a sensible moratorium on immigration into Quebec.
>Many sensible residents outside Quebec, also wish for immigration into
>Canada to be curtailed.

>After all, just last week, both the federal immigration ministry, and the
>Quebec immigration department were BOTH complaining about the illegal
>immigrants from ISRAEL, being ex-Russian JEWS, with their false refugee
>claims!!!In 1995 alone, Quebec had 1,700 illegal JEWS claiming refugee
>status, even though Israel states that they are NOT refugees.

>Of course, Villeneuve and all sensible residents of Quebec do not need
>more criminals, which is what false refugee claimants are.

Just the other day I caught and ITN report that a British court has ordered
people claiming that status in England be put on the dole. It did not name
country of origin.

However, remember that Israel worked quite hard to get other countries to
agree NOT to permit Russian Jew immigration (Germany and the US are two
countries that agreed) so that they would have no significant choice of
countries other than Israel.

And then they claim population pressures to justify West Bank settlements
and put them in harm’s way.

So it is no surprise that Israel would deny Russian Jews can possibly be
refugees. They are very useful to Israel. And being put on the
Palestinian front is something to be a refugee from.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:46 PDT 1996
Article: 72972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:11:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <534bid$3ps@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <53cj7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 14:39:10 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>If you believe Giwer has seen Yad-Vashem as he says, I’ll sell you a
>damned good government bridge, Wholesale.

>The hair was at Auschwitz in 1945, and I saw it again in 1994.

>Giwer claims the Nazis shipped all the human hair from Poland to
>Germany to be destroyed. ROTFLMAO

>What a dipstick this Gwier is. Cheap wine does that to a fella.

>Chuck

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 07 Oct 1996 15:14:22 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >: [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> >:
>> >: >A small rug, or doormat, made of human hair, was found and
>> >: >is now in Yad-Vashem. But more than that: huge amounts of
>> >: >human hair were found in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they are
>> >: >still there.
>> >:
>> >: A nice collection of lies, oh dickless one. There are no such things

>Prove it, you lying has been, unfit for military service in three
>wars. What the hell do you know? Nada!!!
>Chuckles

I do hope you realize that all of your ranting and your claims about what
you did in the war make it very difficult of anyone other than your own
grandchildren to believe you did anything but get get rich in a factory jub
during the war.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:47 PDT 1996
Article: 72973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DON’T FORGET MCVEY’S A LIAR
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:14:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 19:25:40 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:54:04 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>No. I believe nothing Nazi has any value whatsoever. And I don’t
>>>like Nazi scum, whether they are German, American, or British.
>> I have good news for you. They were disbanded in 1945.

> The original Nazi party has disbanded. There are, however, groups who
>want to revive it. Certainly there are groups that want to whitewash it.
>(e.g. The IHR)

It is unclear how pointing out a minor event in the time period lacks
credible physical evidence has anything to do with whitewashing the Nazi
Party. It is impossible to whitewash avowed marxists as they condemn
themselves by their own words.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:48 PDT 1996
Article: 72977 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:38:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <538[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 08:38:54 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>> In message –
>> [email protected] writes:
>> :>
>> :>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote to
>> :>Gord McFee:
>> :>
>> :>> By the way, someone told me that you are using a pseudonym-is this true?
>> :>
>> :>HAHAHAHAHAHA!
>> :>
>> :>Pot.Kettle.Black, Mr. Blackmore/Belling/whatever.
>>
>> You know him too Sara. 🙂
>>
>>
>>
>> —
>> Gord McFee
>> I’ll write no line before its time
>>
>>
>>>>>
>This is hilarious. You can’t answer my arguments so you
>yap about what my name is…..keep up the good work…
>a clear admission of impending defeat…..

Have you ever found McFly to post anything substantive?

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:48 PDT 1996
Article: 72978 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A (very) rare display of candour from Matt
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:53:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 23:10:52 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Those interested in studying real photos from WW2, may
>look in the Nizkor web pages, among them

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images

As I said, you would recognize them when you see them. Nizkor is a fine
place to start for pictures that contradict the claims of the supposed
witnesses. It is simply a matter of looking at the pictures to determine
that the witnesses were not witnesses.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:49 PDT 1996
Article: 72979 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:12:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:01:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

># You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4
># and 5’ ?? 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau????

>Yes – relative to the SS HQ of Birkenau.

># and he confused a small wood with a couple of trees???

>”A couple of trees”? Look at photos, for God’s sake.

Correct. Take a look. There are a couple of trees. No woods, no forest,
nothing.

And do not forget that 1.5 km away puts it between the 1 and the 2 km
radius rings of guard towers the witnesses reported but which complete
eluded all aerial photography.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:50 PDT 1996
Article: 72980 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Pathological Liar
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:26:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 393
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Oct 1996 19:22:53 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Then post the real testimony dickless jew traitor. Until you do,
>>dickless jew traitor, what I have posted stands.

> Why don’t you post the testimony you claim is real? Oh, silly me, I
>forgot, it’s all in your imagination!

> Why are you so intent on calling other men dickless?

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/

>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson

It is not clear what you think you are accomplishing with the spam. Every
time you do it, I post something as long or longer that ridicules your
precious holocaust. You do nothing but get attacks upon your position
posted.

As you know that happens it would appear that is your intention and why a
holohugger would have that intention is not clear.

On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz

>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors who arrived from
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
> over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.

>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.

>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.

>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.

>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh
as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers
believe this sort of crap.

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of
these wagons, depending upon translation.

And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.

Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the
engine. Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the
faces of pilots from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be
paid for this performance.

>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient
these Nazis.

>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe is heard of those awful days which
>had become from day to day more terrible.

A true whacko so far.

>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they
could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person
is truly psychotic.

>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.

Certainly fingers were just pulled off.

Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?

>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.

But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.

You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.

> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust pains and agony and they started
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.

>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
> to say to the Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the
chant above come from? This witness?

>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”

Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.

>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.

>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.

But she has no way of knowing.

> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.

They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.

Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.

>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.

>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.

Who is it that does not want hearsay?

But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it.
What in the hell does the author think witness means?

The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.

But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.

>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty people as it had been for several
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty people of
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more
interesting that crossexamination was not permitted.

> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.

>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.

Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.

>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?

>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop trees.
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.

> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize
this and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?

>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.

But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.

> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.

Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.

>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of tree leaves and poisonous mushrooms that so burned their
>intestines that they wished to die.

They did not live off of them.

>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.

Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.

=====

http://www.codoh.com/

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:51 PDT 1996
Article: 72986 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:32:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <52[email protected]> <52vcuk[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <53eat3$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 18:09:08 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Ursus Major ([email protected]) wrote:

>: *> >Uh…Ursus? I hate to disillusion you, but most of the illustrations
>: *> >the guy who created this site claims are most damning are…
>: *>
>: *> >Well, they’re drawings, Bear-boy.
>:
>: No, they’re arial photographs, my SENILE observant.

>Uh-huh. Photographs in bright, primary colors.

>There ARE photographs on the site, but they essentially mean
>nothing, although the author has appended little comments about
>how the people in the pictures don’t look too upset, etc. The
>illustrations showing the rooftop bar, the sauna, the olympic
>pool and so on are drawings.

And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
were originally released by the CIA?

Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 72987 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:38:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Oct 1996 11:32:11 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> > [email protected] writes:
>>
>> > > : What is the relevance of his birth certificate?
>>
>> > Let’s first prove he existed before we quote from his book. This “witness”
>> > NEVER testified in front of an allied court. No historian from the west
>> > ever met him or conducted an interview with him.
>>
>> You are incorrect. Nysli was known to other physicians at Auschwitz.
>> Further he gave a deposition in 1945.

>Gave a deposition to whom? Where did he testify?
>BTW that is not the proof I asked for. Similarly I
>asked for the toxicological test results from the
>alleged gassing victims at Dachau and you refer
>me to someone’s “testimony”.

A point not of interest to holohuggers is that these “depositions” never
name the people to whom they were given nor the oath. What a strange form
of deposition.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 72988 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:37:15 GMT
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:25:25 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Oct 1996 21:20:40 GMT, [email protected] (Ursus Major) wrote:

>>Fire up your Netscape (optimized for that browser, but will work with
>>others) and RUN–do not Walk!–to the following site:
>>
>> http://www.air-photo.com
>>
>>This is better than a can of Raid for dealing with Tarantulas!
>How about, Bloated, besotted, troll toads?? You any good there??

>>What is it? It’s entirely photographic evidence, newly released by the
>>U.S. Government, of fly-overs of Auschwitz, all three portions: the
>>>Stammlager< (main camp), Auschwitz-Birkenau (the supposed site of The >>Holocaust [TM]) and Auschwitz-Molowitz (the industrial center to make
>>gasoline from coal, as the Germans had no access to oil).

>Ah, I tell you bear boy, better you should have looked my closely, my
>understanding is that the industrial section of Auschwitz is known as
>Monowitz. Duh, bear boy down by one, looking for spiders and troll
>toads.

It is amusing that you folks are claiming the pictures are drawings when
they are the same photos carried by Nizkor and first released by the CIA.

You folks certainly lacked coordination on this one.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 72990 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:44:13 GMT
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On 9 Oct 1996 17:57:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> In other words the criminal Giwer does not know what he’s talking
>>about. There is no such provision in any oath and, if it did it would be in
>>flat contradiction to the Code of Professional Responsibility.

> But Matt knows nothing of professionalism or, indeed, responsibility.
>;-)

>> That’s what you can expect from a criminal confronted with his
>>criminal activity.

> Especially one as dogmatic, impetuous and petulant as Giwer.

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

The Trial of the Executioner of Sobibor

The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings

Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski

THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR

Shimon Kanz

A jury of judges, prosecutors
and defenders who arrived from Germany and headed by the Israeli
judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for 3 days at the court of Tel
Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada Lichtmann who survived
after the revolt and who had refused to go to Germany in order to
testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor. Her
testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the prosecution
over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they
lowered their heads.

In the eyes of the Jewish
judge, who himself had tasted the camps of Hitler, stood tears
and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

“Don’t ask me for exact dates”,
said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provoking and torturing questions of
the lawyers. “At that time no calender existed but on the other
hand I remember the events of those days which I am describing
because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory throughout my
life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination, although it is not clear
>from which side the questions are coming.

The awful depressed the mood
and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horror accompanied the route
>from Krakow from where the Germans had openly exiled her, through
Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the bloody road
to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and humiliations.
Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during the work
in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? How biblical. However this does stand as the only
report of death by stoning to come from the witnesses. It is a
nice touch.

The strikes and blows of the
SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the “Spalier” (their lines)
before the entrance of the concentration points.

Already at the beginning of her
simple words the lips whispered automatically: “Is this
possible?” From where did this woman with her delicate face and
blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures? From where
did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

As we find later she was in charge of something at the camp.
Those in charge of something commonly misused their position for
power. Although this person is not named as one of them, it was
common and can be an answer to the question. That answer being,
she was making a victim of herself to avoid her own prosecution.

DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The
evil always laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless
did it too. The bad guys in all the B movies do it. Why should
not these “devils” do it?
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only
holohuggers believe this sort of crap.

She recalls events of Jews
struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the Jews were loaded on
wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Note in the above translations is poor. “Wagon trains” are not
>from the American Wild West. The term should more correctly be
“truck convoys.”

Planes flew over the train
shooting with machine guns into the wagons. They lowered the
planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the
trucks themselves. This is rather strange behavior.
We will note later a description of the trucks as being
covered. The more correct translation is likely closed as merely
“covering” a truck bed would permit escapes whereas the doors of
a closed truck could be locked.
So the second thing we notice after the pilots attacking
their own people is that they were low enough to see the faces of
the pilots from inside these closed (or even covered) trucks.
Those of you who have WW II pictures of strafing runs will
remember that the planes have to dive on the target and then pull
up. You will also remember that such planes line up behind their
targets and fire as they close on the targets. These are
essential characteristics of a strafing run.
Next we note that these planes are fighters giving them a
minimum speed of flight on the order of 100 miles per hour. But
since they are diving to for the strafing run they are going
significantly faster. And in noting they have to pull out of the
dive the lowest safe pullout altitude would be about 100 feet at
the lowest point where it would be level to the ground.
Now here we have a claim that the faces were seen from
inside a close truck, at an altitude of at least a hundred feet,
>from an angle where the nose of the plane would block the view,
while passing overhead where the body of the plane would block
the view at a speed of at least 100 miles per hour.
This kind of stuff is too impossible to put even in a B
movie. But this is a story under oath that is supposedly being
believed by experienced attorneys and a judge. Is it any wonder
writers about the holocaust have to ignore or quote only very
selectively from testimony like this?

And when they stopped the
shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The devilish
laughter deafened the screaming of those dying.

As if seeing the faces were not ridiculous enough, the evil
one’s must laugh, and not just laughter, the devilish laughter
the truly befits the evil.
Thie devilish laughter is heard from pilots at least 100 feet
in the air over the noise of the engine that is driving a plane
at least 100 mph. Not only is it heard from that distance which
is no mean feat in itself but over the engine noise from inside a
closed cockpit with the body of the plane blocking the sound in
addition to the view but it is so loud that it
is heard over the normal truck noises and the
screams of the dying.
And we are supposed to believe the attorneys are believing
this when it is difficult to see how anyone over the age of ten
could take one word of it seriously. It is clearly a complete
fabrication from the bottom up.
If a person perjures herself in one part of her testimony
then all of her testimony is to be rejected.
If she had keep the story simple, saying that planes fired
on the trucks then there would not be enough details to judge the
validity of the story. But in the details the story is exposed
as false. That questions the other parts of the story that are
kept simple, such as the stoning and shooting.
Perhaps this person is simply telling
the story in the eastern european style but that requires
that western europeans not for one moment to consider any of this
story as literal truth. All that is does is relieve her of the
charge of perjury.

On the way somewhere near to
Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons and the men and women
were forced to strip off their clothes and to begin dancing. The
voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt.
Very efficient these Nazis.
Here we have a classic feature of witchcraft, naked dancing.
And these people are devils are they not? It fits the mode of a
story about the devil. The devil makes them dance, right out of
Night on Bald Mountain.
This is a feature common to many of these stories, being
forced to strip and dance. Sometimes an orchestra is organized
and the music of someone like Wagner is played. How does one
dance to Wagner? Have you ever tried to tip-toe through the
Niebelungen?
There might be some credibility to the music stories if they
played folks songs or popular music. But if the style of music
is mentioned (a false detail thrown in) it is never music
suitable for dancing. Thus again, if the stories are detailed
enough they make themselves incredible rather than adding
corroborating detail as would be expected.

Her face reflects her feeling
of tortures and inability to tell all. Her words shiver and only
an echo is heard of those awful days which had become from
day to day more terrible.

Rather if there is anything this woman has suffered it is a
terrifying trip into an alternate reality where things like this
are in fact possible. If what she has described so far was
possible in that reality many even more frightening things must
have been possible.
At best she did not live a nightmare, she dreamed a
nightmare.

They were kept on the ground
only one day. It was fenced in with barbed wire and again they
were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the slaughter and
brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow took
several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors,
remembers how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons
when they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed
wagons?

Nevertheless, the journey
lasted for a few days and the German soldiers were amused by
their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the Ukrainians
broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did not
succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the
finger nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their
victims! “Soon you will be broiled and soap will be made from
you.”

Certainly fingers were just pulled off. Tell me the truth.
This was written by Stephen King, right?
The Germans are amused by their victims, what the amusement
might be is unclear as they were inside closed vehicles. But
they were paying so little attention that Ukranians had
snuck into Poland and were permitted to break in trucks
and take valuables. The valuables that could have gone to the
German guards or taken at Sobibor were taken by “wild” Ukranians.
And during this breakin not one of the prisoners thought to
take the opportunity to escape. Or did the wild Ukranians lock
the doors while they were inside?

The Polish farmers also waited
in front of the entrance to Sobibor and shouted at the Jews in
the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it will not redeem
you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
You will note later on that escapees had to get out the word that
Polish farmers knew all about.
It was also a secret and not a secret but the wild Ukranians
knew all about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a
chant. One has to wonder just how it was heard from inside the
trucks.
You will note below that no one understood what was being
said later in this same testimony.

THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

The shouts of the Poles
penetrated into the conscience of those weakened from hunger and
thirst pains and agony and they started screaming and
yelling thus deafening the camp.

This is not a clear statement. It appears to say that the
prisoners started screaming so loud from inside the trucks that
it was at least noticeable over the entire camp. Perhaps more of
the eastern style of storytelling.

The SS-man Michel who was
called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker” as he received the
arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have much to say to the
Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and gunshots. The
Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland, Belgium,
Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did not
understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the
translation of the chant above come from? This witness? Then
she was Polish and (in the opening to the testimony) that she had
started from Kracow to the east of Sobibor. So just where did
they pick up people from the west and south of Sobibor? Is she
trying to say everyone was shipped to Krakow first for some
reason?

At their arrival to the camp
they were welcomed with a speech by Michel: “You have to be
disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle of them
and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
clothes here.”

He we have a little more of this getting naked outdoors
stuff.

Among the transport of 7,000
men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the year 1942 and who went
on the same day to the gas chamber only three women survived
chosen to work in the laundry.

This is clearly a statement from the narrator. If we
presume that it was 7,000 men and women then it makes a bit more
sense.

With an indication of his
finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her
for profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and
his assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela
Sobol and Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to
the crematorium, but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no
knowledge of what happened to the others after this point in the
story. Except of course aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs
of a crematorium. So it unclear where these people were going
other than the implied showers.

The Jews believed the Germans
and in astonishing order they packed their belongings and after
an hour not even one was alive, only a few craftsmen were allowed
to survive.

But she has no way of knowing. But only three women survived
for the laundry but some craftsmen survived but they were no
selected before passing through the gate.

SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

We three organized the laundry
in the camp. Until then the German officers too were dirty and
lice-infected. In the course of time the laundry was enlarged and
women from other transports arriving daily were distributed to
us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in her
narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
can”.

They organized a laundry where none existed before and then
the laundry was expanded. It is unclear just what the expansion
of the laundry was for unless a) the number of Germans increased
or b) the number of inmates increased. Neither increase would
make sense on the assumption this was an extermination camp. (It
was, in fact, a work camp specializing in logging and lumber
production.)

The tension in the hall
extended also to the memory of the woman. She feels the good eyes
of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a Lieutenant in the
police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while writing
every word going out of her mouth.

The Germans do not want to hear
about what she knows to tell but what she has seen with her own
eyes.

Who would want to hear more of such an absurd tale? These
are serious people who really have better to do than to suppress
their incredulity.

But how can she not tell about
the shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not
witness it. What in the hell does the author think witness
means?

The heartbreaking shouts and
screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day
that they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole
transport.

But Ada Lichtman was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
How did the SS pass up the opportunity to do the same at her
arrival? Again, consider the lack of credibility of this
witness.

Generally the transports
arrived during the day. Once on a hot summer day a transport
arrived with thirsty people as it had been for several days since
they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some to
go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharführer” Michel
was already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug-up
hole which served as a privy and forced them to smear their body
and face with the excrement. And thus he brought them back to the
thirsty people of the transport. From another transport young men
were forced to beat each other to death. The last one remaining
>from this terrible battle was shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing
that this level of testimony that was introduced in capital
trials. Even more interesting that crossexamination was not
permitted.
But even more interesting are the other aspects that appear
strangely common yet told in different ways. These SS folks for
some reason get some kind of thrill out of seeing people covered
in excrement. They also appear to have picked up a Romanesque
interest in battles to the death.
Where such interests might have come from is unclear, either
for Germans to have them or for Easterners to invent them.

HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann
and her husband whom she met in Sobibor after the revolt are
horrifying.

They tell how the semi-alive
victims tried to maintain to the last moment not only their human
faces but also their human soulds. They tell about women who
tried to save their children and were desparately driven to
perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with
their own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell
about the Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately
after his arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found
out about it and they chose 72 men and sent them to the
crematorium.

There is a minor problem with this part of the story.
Aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs of a crematorium. Other
than that … the story is that the gassed were first buried and
later dug up and burned in bonfires, neither of which shows up in
the aerial photos either.

This massacre was supervised by the “Oberscharführer”
Frenzel whose trial is taking place at the present moment.
Returning from the scene of the murder he ordered the quick
erection of a temporary stage out of some planks, called for the
orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and dance.

Here we have another of those dancing, singing, orchestral
moments that punctuate so much of the Holocaust. Perhaps she
forgot to mention that they were naked but at least it has the
civility of constructing a stage.

This Frenzel once caught a boy
red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered all the Jews from the
barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher? It is unclear just
what was the “crime” of eating sardines. Perhaps it was simply a
more extreme response than was involved in the search for the
missing strawberries.

Sobibor did not become at once
a concentration of plants and workshops. The camp gradually
expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kinds of workshops.
There work was done only for the German officers and guards.
Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to chop trees.
Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them
and escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all
considered the heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of
doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is
nothing new.

THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

Sasha Pizurski who was brought
to the camp with a group of prisoners of the Russian army
immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To this
committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had
decided revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to await
the arrival of a Russian to organize this and yet the people
there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
But the story is now changing to the work camp it really
was.

In the barracks weapons were
started to appear: axes and knives. How dangerous this was! How
much courage, cunning, patience you had to use in order to
conceal this. Many efforts of the spirit and mind, will and
courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided
into groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details:
Every group and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had
to assault the guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns;
some had to tempt the officers into coming into the workshops;
others had to attack the guards that were wandering about.
Special men had to cut off the telephone and electricity lines
and tear down the barbed wires – to make passage ways.

THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

The revolt was fixed for
October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death enthusiastically took
their fate into their own hands. Until the prearranged sign was
given every group had performed its tasks well. Nevertheless
things which had not been expected in advance happened. Guns
started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield.
On this day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there
began on the hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent
blood of the SS-men and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had
been so sure of themselves when millions of innocent women and
children were led to death, seemed now anxious and inferior, they
became confused and ran like mice into the trap looking for a
hiding place.

It appears she is saying that men were not gassed. The
story does need a good editor, excuse me, an editor, a good
editor would not touch the job.

The SS-men and the police
pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes and the Polish
farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.

Now wait a minute. Poland was an occupied country. The SS
did not limit itself to jews. And here we have Poles helping the
SS? It sounds a bit like this person from Kracow has a strong
dislike of Poles in addition to Poles.

Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the
Germans. Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived.
Also Mrs. Ada Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a
Polish woman called Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in
Israel succeeded, with help of some young Poles, in arriving to
the partisans in the woods of Parzew and continued their war
against the German army. But until they reached the forest they
wandered around day and night, living off tree leaves and
poisonous mushrooms that so burned their intestines that they
wished to die.

This is an otherwise unknown symptom of mushroom poisoning.

They lowered their eyes and one
of them was turning his head from side to side replied: “No, we
did not easily agree to accept such a mission. It was forced upon
us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good thing that you
did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled to come
to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the
Germans flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending
the murderers you emphasize the responsibility of the German
people of what took place?” The two defenders ignoring the
question avoided answering and the question remained unanswered.

It appears there was no presumption of innocense in this
trial.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:55 PDT 1996
Article: 72991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Lies Again
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:44:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 809
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <53a9uq$n31@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53b0mn$2fm@news.enter.net> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Oct 1996 17:52:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Matt should be familiar with the following quote, as it has been
>cited several times:

> “He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.”
> – Matt Giwer

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 7 Oct 1996 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> Let us keep this straight, you are in violation of your oath as an
>>>> officer of the court or you are lying.
>>> What oath, criminal. Please tell me all about it.
>> The one you took, jew.

> Be more specific Matt – vague allegations don’t make anyone’s case
>look good. Cite the text of the oath, specifying the oath and which part(s)
>of it you claim Yale is in violation of. After all:

> “He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.”
> – Matt Giwer

> Derek

>Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:

The Trial of the Executioner of Sobibor

The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings

Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski

THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR

Shimon Kanz

In the eyes of the Jewish
judge, who himself had tasted the camps of Hitler, stood tears
and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination, although it is not clear
>from which side the questions are coming.

“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? How biblical. However this does stand as the only
report of death by stoning to come from the witnesses. It is a
nice touch.

The strikes and blows of the
SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the “Spalier” (their lines)
before the entrance of the concentration points.

As we find later she was in charge of something at the camp.
Those in charge of something commonly misused their position for
power. Although this person is not named as one of them, it was
common and can be an answer to the question. That answer being,
she was making a victim of herself to avoid her own prosecution.

DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The
evil always laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless
did it too. The bad guys in all the B movies do it. Why should
not these “devils” do it?
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only
holohuggers believe this sort of crap.

She recalls events of Jews
struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the Jews were loaded on
wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

Note in the above translations is poor. “Wagon trains” are not
>from the American Wild West. The term should more correctly be
“truck convoys.”

Planes flew over the train
shooting with machine guns into the wagons. They lowered the
planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the
trucks themselves. This is rather strange behavior.
We will note later a description of the trucks as being
covered. The more correct translation is likely closed as merely
“covering” a truck bed would permit escapes whereas the doors of
a closed truck could be locked.
So the second thing we notice after the pilots attacking
their own people is that they were low enough to see the faces of
the pilots from inside these closed (or even covered) trucks.
Those of you who have WW II pictures of strafing runs will
remember that the planes have to dive on the target and then pull
up. You will also remember that such planes line up behind their
targets and fire as they close on the targets. These are
essential characteristics of a strafing run.
Next we note that these planes are fighters giving them a
minimum speed of flight on the order of 100 miles per hour. But
since they are diving to for the strafing run they are going
significantly faster. And in noting they have to pull out of the
dive the lowest safe pullout altitude would be about 100 feet at
the lowest point where it would be level to the ground.
Now here we have a claim that the faces were seen from
inside a close truck, at an altitude of at least a hundred feet,
>from an angle where the nose of the plane would block the view,
while passing overhead where the body of the plane would block
the view at a speed of at least 100 miles per hour.
This kind of stuff is too impossible to put even in a B
movie. But this is a story under oath that is supposedly being
believed by experienced attorneys and a judge. Is it any wonder
writers about the holocaust have to ignore or quote only very
selectively from testimony like this?

And when they stopped the
shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The devilish
laughter deafened the screaming of those dying.

As if seeing the faces were not ridiculous enough, the evil
one’s must laugh, and not just laughter, the devilish laughter
the truly befits the evil.
Thie devilish laughter is heard from pilots at least 100 feet
in the air over the noise of the engine that is driving a plane
at least 100 mph. Not only is it heard from that distance which
is no mean feat in itself but over the engine noise from inside a
closed cockpit with the body of the plane blocking the sound in
addition to the view but it is so loud that it
is heard over the normal truck noises and the
screams of the dying.
And we are supposed to believe the attorneys are believing
this when it is difficult to see how anyone over the age of ten
could take one word of it seriously. It is clearly a complete
fabrication from the bottom up.
If a person perjures herself in one part of her testimony
then all of her testimony is to be rejected.
If she had keep the story simple, saying that planes fired
on the trucks then there would not be enough details to judge the
validity of the story. But in the details the story is exposed
as false. That questions the other parts of the story that are
kept simple, such as the stoning and shooting.
Perhaps this person is simply telling
the story in the eastern european style but that requires
that western europeans not for one moment to consider any of this
story as literal truth. All that is does is relieve her of the
charge of perjury.

On the way somewhere near to
Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons and the men and women
were forced to strip off their clothes and to begin dancing. The
voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt.
Very efficient these Nazis.
Here we have a classic feature of witchcraft, naked dancing.
And these people are devils are they not? It fits the mode of a
story about the devil. The devil makes them dance, right out of
Night on Bald Mountain.
This is a feature common to many of these stories, being
forced to strip and dance. Sometimes an orchestra is organized
and the music of someone like Wagner is played. How does one
dance to Wagner? Have you ever tried to tip-toe through the
Niebelungen?
There might be some credibility to the music stories if they
played folks songs or popular music. But if the style of music
is mentioned (a false detail thrown in) it is never music
suitable for dancing. Thus again, if the stories are detailed
enough they make themselves incredible rather than adding
corroborating detail as would be expected.

Her face reflects her feeling
of tortures and inability to tell all. Her words shiver and only
an echo is heard of those awful days which had become from
day to day more terrible.

Rather if there is anything this woman has suffered it is a
terrifying trip into an alternate reality where things like this
are in fact possible. If what she has described so far was
possible in that reality many even more frightening things must
have been possible.
At best she did not live a nightmare, she dreamed a
nightmare.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons
when they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed
wagons?

Certainly fingers were just pulled off. Tell me the truth.
This was written by Stephen King, right?
The Germans are amused by their victims, what the amusement
might be is unclear as they were inside closed vehicles. But
they were paying so little attention that Ukranians had
snuck into Poland and were permitted to break in trucks
and take valuables. The valuables that could have gone to the
German guards or taken at Sobibor were taken by “wild” Ukranians.
And during this breakin not one of the prisoners thought to
take the opportunity to escape. Or did the wild Ukranians lock
the doors while they were inside?

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
You will note later on that escapees had to get out the word that
Polish farmers knew all about.
It was also a secret and not a secret but the wild Ukranians
knew all about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a
chant. One has to wonder just how it was heard from inside the
trucks.
You will note below that no one understood what was being
said later in this same testimony.

THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

The shouts of the Poles
penetrated into the conscience of those weakened from hunger and
thirst pains and agony and they started screaming and
yelling thus deafening the camp.

This is not a clear statement. It appears to say that the
prisoners started screaming so loud from inside the trucks that
it was at least noticeable over the entire camp. Perhaps more of
the eastern style of storytelling.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the
translation of the chant above come from? This witness? Then
she was Polish and (in the opening to the testimony) that she had
started from Kracow to the east of Sobibor. So just where did
they pick up people from the west and south of Sobibor? Is she
trying to say everyone was shipped to Krakow first for some
reason?

He we have a little more of this getting naked outdoors
stuff.

Among the transport of 7,000
men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the year 1942 and who went
on the same day to the gas chamber only three women survived
chosen to work in the laundry.

This is clearly a statement from the narrator. If we
presume that it was 7,000 men and women then it makes a bit more
sense.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no
knowledge of what happened to the others after this point in the
story. Except of course aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs
of a crematorium. So it unclear where these people were going
other than the implied showers.

The Jews believed the Germans
and in astonishing order they packed their belongings and after
an hour not even one was alive, only a few craftsmen were allowed
to survive.

But she has no way of knowing. But only three women survived
for the laundry but some craftsmen survived but they were no
selected before passing through the gate.

SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

They organized a laundry where none existed before and then
the laundry was expanded. It is unclear just what the expansion
of the laundry was for unless a) the number of Germans increased
or b) the number of inmates increased. Neither increase would
make sense on the assumption this was an extermination camp. (It
was, in fact, a work camp specializing in logging and lumber
production.)

The Germans do not want to hear
about what she knows to tell but what she has seen with her own
eyes.

Who would want to hear more of such an absurd tale? These
are serious people who really have better to do than to suppress
their incredulity.

But how can she not tell about
the shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not
witness it. What in the hell does the author think witness
means?

But Ada Lichtman was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
How did the SS pass up the opportunity to do the same at her
arrival? Again, consider the lack of credibility of this
witness.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing
that this level of testimony that was introduced in capital
trials. Even more interesting that crossexamination was not
permitted.
But even more interesting are the other aspects that appear
strangely common yet told in different ways. These SS folks for
some reason get some kind of thrill out of seeing people covered
in excrement. They also appear to have picked up a Romanesque
interest in battles to the death.
Where such interests might have come from is unclear, either
for Germans to have them or for Easterners to invent them.

HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann
and her husband whom she met in Sobibor after the revolt are
horrifying.

There is a minor problem with this part of the story.
Aerial photos of Sobibor show no signs of a crematorium. Other
than that … the story is that the gassed were first buried and
later dug up and burned in bonfires, neither of which shows up in
the aerial photos either.

Here we have another of those dancing, singing, orchestral
moments that punctuate so much of the Holocaust. Perhaps she
forgot to mention that they were naked but at least it has the
civility of constructing a stage.

This Frenzel once caught a boy
red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered all the Jews from the
barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher? It is unclear just
what was the “crime” of eating sardines. Perhaps it was simply a
more extreme response than was involved in the search for the
missing strawberries.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is
nothing new.

THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to await
the arrival of a Russian to organize this and yet the people
there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
But the story is now changing to the work camp it really
was.

THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

It appears she is saying that men were not gassed. The
story does need a good editor, excuse me, an editor, a good
editor would not touch the job.

The SS-men and the police
pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes and the Polish
farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.

Now wait a minute. Poland was an occupied country. The SS
did not limit itself to jews. And here we have Poles helping the
SS? It sounds a bit like this person from Kracow has a strong
dislike of Poles in addition to Poles.

This is an otherwise unknown symptom of mushroom poisoning.

It appears there was no presumption of innocense in this
trial.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 72992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:10:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <325bb4b8[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 09:05:13 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>>It is quite true that the Kremas were visible from the “local” farms.
>>It is also quite true that those farms had been confiscated from their
>>former Polish owners and were operated entirely by the SS using inmate
>>labour.

>Several Polish farmers in that area are interviewed in Shoah –
>they provide clear evidence that spending too much time paying
>attention to Auschwitz was unhealthy.

But you have posted the TRUTH that farmers taunting prisoners entering
Sobibor was the common behavior of such farmers.

It is SOP for holohuggers to want it both ways at the same time.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 72994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: conundrum
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:58:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Holohuggers claim there is no holohugger making harrassing phone calls to
me and my family. If they are correct then the following is false.

When I find out who is making the harrassing phone calls, I will make him
wish he were dead even to the point of making him dead. But that would be
an accident, a long lived blind cripple is my true objective.

If holohuggers are truthful people the above has no meaning. If they are
liars then they will claim the above is a death threat.

But as we know holohuggers are liars and viciously violent people.

We also know they do not lie and no one is conducting this harrassment
campaign. Therefore I have not made a threat.

And of course, any complaint about a threat will prove there is knowledge
of harrassment by holohuggers. Accessories will need be questioned as to
their knowledge and complicity.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 73004 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Continuing myths
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:47:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <52u8ca$5mq@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <535ks8$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <536qsc$o[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 22:13:47 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> _The American Hebrew_, October 31, 1919, page 582:

>What is this? Book, magazine, paper.
>Would like to have photocopy of entire article or speech.

As I am regularly advised, go to a library.

>Why is six million significant in 1919?

Prescience; phychic powers, whatever you would like.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:58 PDT 1996
Article: 73005 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:55:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <325A130C.[email protected]> <53fu[email protected]> <325b17c9.765489@news>
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On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 03:17:13 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:14:01 GMT, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 04:38:36 -0400, Chris DeNeve
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Why should I believe the holocaust really happened. I have seen no
>>>conclusive evidence. Just some old guy came to my school and said
>>>that the fact he had numbers tatooed on his hand was proof.
>>
>> According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is evidence that
>>there was no gassing. His very existance, if he claims he is jewish, means
>>the intent to exterminate Jews was either not there or missed the obvious.
>Once again the imperious I.Q. of the bloated besotted troll toad is
>placed in action, notice that it could have said that the Tattoo is
>evidence that the nazis did indeed number Jews and others entering
>death camps, though some did survive, thus they weren’t gassed, thus
>it doesn’t prove any thing about gassing. The the nazis did miss the
>obvious and didn’t murder all those who were in the death camps, such
>as Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and others, because they didn’t have the
>time. To obvious for the bloated besotted troll toad intellect, which
>while claiming to have an rather bloated I.Q. is nothing but the sound
>of the bloated besotted troll toad in his pond of puke.

Thank you. That puts me head and shoulders above braindead holohuggers
such as youselves.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 73006 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST?
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:57:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <325A130C[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:33:58 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># According to one of the standard staries, his tatttoo is
># evidence that there was no gassing. His very existance, if he
># claims he is jewish, means the intent to exterminate Jews was
># either not there or missed the obvious.

>What a leap of logic. Since the Nazis didn’t have enough time
>to kill *all* the Jews, this means they never meant to kill
>Jews in the first place?

>You have claimed that the IDF tried to kill every sailor on
>the Liberty. Yet, the large majority of the sailors were not
>killed. You have just contradicted yourself.

As you know I have posted eyewtiness testimony to the serial number being
branded, not tattooed, in addition to the Star of David being brnded on
their chests.

As you know, those eyewitnesses told the thruth even though there is not
one example of it. As I have said, no physical evidence.. Reality gets in
the way of holohugger fanstasy.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 09:30:00 PDT 1996
Article: 73026 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer Takes the Bait!!!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:18:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 10:47:34 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen Mulhern)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>* I sleep very well, thank you. I do not have to live with the
>fantasy of
>*mass extermination as you do.
>*
>*This will be my last direct post
>*>to you, as you don’t deserve my time, nor my intellect.
>*
>* Of course it will lbe your last as you have no intellect to speak of,
>*thinking that acceptance in college is of some merit in these affirmative
>*action days, patitcularly for minorities like blacks and majorities like
>*women.
>*
>*>I encourage
>*>others to ignore this crazed, genetic misfit called Matt Giwer, as he
>*>thrives from follw-ups. He represents the absolute sick and twisted and
>*>sompletely wrong minority in this world and no longer deserves our time,
>*>nor our effort. He will slowley wither away to nothingness without our
>*>encouragement. I say… we let him. The facts are on our side… not on
>*>his.
>*
>* The silly little bitch thinks she has said something important.
>She is in
>*fact a fatbroad going to college for no other purpose than to find a
>*husband.

>LOOK EVERYONE!!! See the Giwer get defensive! See the Giwer hurl
>unbased, silly, childish insults at people he doesn’t know because he can
>think of nothing better to say!! See the Giwer realizing he’s wrong,
>after being proven wrong for the millionth time, and get all pissy about
>it! Look everyone! It’s so much fun to bait a dim bulb like Giwer.
>C’mon everyone!! Join in the fun! Post your own rebuttles proving
>Giwer’s ignorance, and watch the troll squirm! Yay!

It is difficult to see how even an ill-educated type such as yourself can
think you said something substantive that would support anything you are
claiming.

And now the great “guess the major” game begins. Literature and education
are the most likely possibilities. Education with a literature minor the
most likely combination.

And what is certain is that she thinks both are “challenging.”

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 12:41:11 PDT 1996
Article: 73039 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 23:13:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <534[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:45:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>You’re posting from worldnet, Matty? Did netcom kick you
>out, after your e-mail bombs?

>## https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg
>##
>## These are not trees?

># That is your captioning. I am posting the real pictures.

>You’re posting the real pictures? Knowing Giwer, he’s probably
>posting the photo of Eva Braun’s bathroom, claiming it’s the
>crematorium.

>Where is this “real picture” of yours, Matty? Where did you
>get it from?

I am certain you will recognize them when you see them.

># You self worth is totally enwrapped in what someone else
># will pay you. That is pitiful.

>Get a job, you damned leech. You claim to have an IQ of 163. It
>should not be so difficult if that is true.

I have no ego interest in what others are willing to pay me.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 12:41:12 PDT 1996
Article: 73052 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conundrum
Date: 10 Oct 1996 16:47:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says…
>
> Holohuggers claim there is no holohugger making harrassing phone calls
to
>me and my family. If they are correct then the following is false.
>
> When I find out who is making the harrassing phone calls, I will make
him
>wish he were dead even to the point of making him dead. But that would be
>an accident, a long lived blind cripple is my true objective.
>

EEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CAN’T SEE!!! AND I HAVE FALLEN AND CAN’T GET UP!!!

READ THE PAGE THAT MAKES YOUR FORESKIN SING: http://www.babylonians.com

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 13:58:52 PDT 1996
Article: 73064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer of Florida is a Nazi Sympathizer; give him a ring and tell him!
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:45:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:32567 alt.revisionism:73064

On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:55:07 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Andrew Mathis wrote:
>>
>> Matt Giwer is a Nazi, or at the very least a Nazi sympathizer.
>>
>> How do I know?
>>
>> Harold Covington, leader of the National Socialist White People’s
>> Party, a.k.a. the American Nazi Party, sent out a column by
>> anti-Semitic (sue me) columnist Joseph Sobran on his listserve a day
>> or so ago.
>>
>> Who sent it to Mr. Covington?
>>
>> Matt Giwer.
>>
>> How do I know this?
>>
>> It still had Giwer’s sig file at the bottom.
>>
>> You’re a filthy fucking Nazi, Matt. Give up trying to hide your
>> partialities.
>>
>> Andrew Mathis
>>
>Now isn’t THAT interesting? Matt is a Nazi sympathizer. . . Now why
>doesn’t that surprise me TOO much!

It does not surprise you because you are not bright enough to comprehend
what is being discussed here.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 13:58:53 PDT 1996
Article: 73074 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: look at what the silly jews are up to now
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:46:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Kaspu Corporation (BABYLONIANS-DOM)
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From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 15:21:42 PDT 1996
Article: 73092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:16:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <325d7e[email protected]> <53da2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Behold the Keren, it createth a straw man and tearest it down.

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Let’s look at those memoirs again, and at the “revisionist”
>claim that they were dictated to Hoess by the Soviets and the
>Poles.

>The Soviets and Poles claimed 4 million deaths at Auschwitz,
>while Hoess gives in his memoirs a rather accurate estimate
>of about 1.3 million. Moreover, he mocks the higher estimates,
>saying they are fruit of wild imagination, etc.

>Can you see how stupid the “revisionist” claim is?

Perhaps it is so stupid because you created it.

>Can anyone explain how come, if they told him what to write,
>they told him to give a figure for the victims so very
>different from theirs? And they also told him “hey, Hoess old
>chap, don’t forget to write that only an idiot would support
>the figures we claim are true”?

>Also, can any “revisionist” explain why the Soviets and the
>Poles would have told Hoess to write that the Soviet POW’s
>behaved like a horde of animals, killing each other for a
>piece of bread, practicing cannibalism, etc?

>And why they would have told him to write that the Polish
>prisoners were bitterly fighting among them, even killing
>each other, in battles for higher positions in the inmate
>hierarchy?

Can you explain WHEN he was supposed to have written it, dictated or not?

Can you explain why it was not introduced into evidence against him?

Can you explain why he was acquitted of the charge of gassing Polish
civilians and convicted of shooting POWs?

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 18:08:18 PDT 1996
Article: 73125 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: from the new bible
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:41:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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“I looked into the name of the holocaust and it’s number was six million.
Count ye not to twelve but to directly to six.”
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Institute for Historic Revisionism
http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/ Ernst Zundel, Threat to Canadian Security
http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html the dark side

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 73141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:26:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <52[email protected]> <52vcuk[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <53eat3$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <3[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:73141 alt.politics.nationalism.white:32602 alt.politics.white-power:46197 alt.skinheads:39327

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:21:51 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> And what does it mean that Nizkor carries the same photos and that they
>> were originally released by the CIA?
>>
>> Fact of life, boy. Get used to it.

>Well obviously it means that Nizkor is run by the DOD, or specifically, the
>cat of the sister of the guy who ingers 1B Systems from the Milnet
>database.

>By the way, you’re a troll:

> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll who
>resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general prevarication
>in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you, little man, are
>completely devoid of anything resembling decency, morality, and integrity.

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at

And you support Marduk’s death threats? Why would you you support those
idirect folks? Just because they are jews?

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 73142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: euthanasia murders?
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:00:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Tue, 08 Oct 96 00:12:48 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander
Baron) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] “Matt Giwer” writes:
>>
>> I did not think we were debating Keren here but it is clear that he
>> promotes as true the obvious lies of Israel regarding the murder of the
>> crew of the USS Liberty. He pretends to be both a US citizen and a Jew
>> which makes him a jew traitor by his own words.
>>
>> There may be larger issues here but there is no reason not to indentify
>> him
>> for what he has professed to be by his own words.

>Dan is like so many others of his kind, a victim of indoctrination. The thought
>that someone can have a contrary opinion on this subject without being an
>anti-Semite causes him great consternation.

When a man joins the Marines, it is expected that he will be indoctrinated,
in fact he has chosen it. Some years into his career, it becomes his job
to indoctriante others.

Although Keren is now in the stage of indoctrinating others, he was at one
time desirous of becoming indoctrinated. It was a choice he freely made.

Beynod attempting to discuss what really might have happened despite the
noise level, a good part of the effort is provide the background fo the
lurkers so that they will not choose indoctrination, to know there is
information other than what they have been lead to believe. That way they
may choose to think for themselves.

The very least we need to do is let others know there is another side so
that as a minimum they put it into the “not sure” category.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:03 PDT 1996
Article: 73170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Continuing myths
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:00:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <52u8ca$5mq@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <535ks8$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <536qsc$o43@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53h91e$g2c@lex.zippo.com> <53id9u[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:02:48 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 22:13:47 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Carpenter)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >> _The American Hebrew_, October 31, 1919, page 582:
>>
>> >What is this? Book, magazine, paper.
>> >Would like to have photocopy of entire article or speech.
>>
>> As I am regularly advised, go to a library.

>Are you telling us YOU went into a library in Florida and found issues
>of the “American Hebrew” going back to 1919? Then you read each and
>every issue until you found one with the phrase “six million”, and made
>a note of it for future reference?

I am telling you nothing other than to stop sending me email that
duplicates your public posts. But of course if you think Florida is devoid
of jews …

>Wow! What excellent research skills! And what a marvelous library you
>have in your community. Mind telling me which library you used?

I am suggesting you find it on your own. That is what holohuggers keep
telling me.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:04 PDT 1996
Article: 73179 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: look as the silly jews now
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:11:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

And remember that Colin MacGregor lied and all of idirect lied.

Kaspu Corporation (BABYLONIANS-DOM)
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From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 73185 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger idiocy repeated again
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:13:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <53i6de$c4o@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:32612 alt.revisionism:73185

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 21:10:32 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

It is interesting to see that you confirm you are in fact that stupid. The
curious part of it is why you are proud of it.

>To quote an Alaskan correspondent: Don’t call neo-Nazis neo-Nazis;
>call them Nazis. I don’t call the dogshit on my front lawn when it
>thaws out in April “neo-dogshit.”

>Eat that, Herr Giwer.

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 9 Oct 1996 17:16:40 GMT, [email protected] (Felix Vagabond) wrote:

>>> I have heard it too from a very good source that Matt Giwer is Nazi.

>>> He should admit it publicaly and not hide.

>> In other words you truly believe that I am a member of a political party
>>that was disbanded in 1945.

>> That makes you terminally stupid but not exceptional for a holohugger.

>>>–
>>>==============================================================================
>>> HELL, IN CASE YOU DON’T KNOW,IS THE PLACE WHERE YOU DON’T HAVE
>>> THE LUXURY OF WALKING UP FROM YOUR NIGHTMARES.
>>> A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR!

>> SciFi Channel Sightings is going to feature (10/11/96) a person remembering
>>being a victim in his past life.

>> It is not amazing how far the psychotic holohuggers will go to create
>>victims?

>>>==============================================================================

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:05 PDT 1996
Article: 73188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Interesting
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:08:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Watching the documentary NUREMBERG on the Discovery Channel.

The primary charge in the minds of those interviewed was a conspiracy to
wage aggressive warfare. It was not explained what other kind of warfare
there is.

It was hardly anything approaching a complete record of any kind but the
out-takes made some things quite clear. If those charged had defense
counsel they counsel either slept through the questioning or were not
permitting to object to leading questions, the prosecutions giving
testimony, and a host of other things that would result in a successful
appeal in a fair trial.

Almost every question shown would result in a sustained objection in a fair
trial.

YFE holds Nuremberg was a fair trial.

=====

Churchill’s statement the Russia was dividing Europe with an Iron Curtain
was a phrase he borrowed from Goebbels.

=====

Alfred Krupp was convicted and the assets of his company were siezed. That
certainly put a value upon finding his guilty of doing what the government
told him to do. After serving only two years of a 12 year sentence he was
released and his assets restored.

=====

As a result of the first trial there were eleven death sentences. The
bodies were burned in the Dachau crematorium. The film of it indicated it
was an unsheltered single oven affair like the one at Belsen.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:06 PDT 1996
Article: 73190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:15:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <534[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Oct 1996 23:53:55 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>
>> # There’s just few trees near this crema, and back, dozens of
>> # meters away we can see trees, but what we don’t see in the photo
>>
>> Oh yes we do. Very, very clearly.
>>
>> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema4.jpg
>>
>> I see a great many trees there. Maybe you should have your
>> eyes examined.

> Do you contest that few meters away from this crema, approximativelly
> from the place where the photographer took this picture, there was
> dozens of barracks according to Birkenau map? YES or NO?

If you look at the aerial pictures, the tne number of trees is meaningless.
The Krema is no further from the barracks than the barracks are from each
other.

Of course the Chuckle Fairy claims the picture is a CIA forgery, for what
hat is worth.

From [email protected] Thu Oct 10 23:07:07 PDT 1996
Article: 73193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 07:07:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <53ecq9$ov[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Oct 1996 22:28:40 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 8 Oct 1996 09:20:51 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> > You most certainly have. As one example you have, falsely, accused
>> >the investigators of the Malmedy massacre of phsyically torturing German soldiers
>to
>> >extract confessions.
>
>> You mean you are still holding to your position that they all had their
>> attorneys present during all questioning?

> Liar. I have never stated that.

I thought you stated the accused were given fair trials? What that someone
else?

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 00:35:25 PDT 1996
Article: 73195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 03:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 7.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Oct 1996 23:48:07 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
>> # [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> # You have it folk. He’s supposed to talk about ‘krema 4
>> # and 5’ ?? 1,5 km Sout-West of Birkenau????
>>
>> Yes – relative to the SS HQ of Birkenau.

> An where did he say relative to the SS HQ? nowhere. He’s talking
> about Birkenau. He’s talking about a small wood, and locate the
> ‘gas chamber’ IN this wood, not close to a couple of trees that
> are in the vicinity of Birkenau. And he said that the ‘gas chamber’
> was camouflated in this wood. Your explication is ridiculous.
> If you have the pretention to read in the mind and transform
> each of his words according to your will, that’s up to you. The
> words that he used mean simply: starting from the SW corner of
> Birkenau, 1 to 1,5 km away in a straight line. When I’m saying
> 1 km on the south of central park, this doesn’t mean ‘starting
> from 680 meters on the north of the southern border of central park’
> but 1 km on the south of the southern border.

From the aerial photo, EVERYTHING in that direction from ANY place in the
camp including the border is either more of the camp or worked farmland.
And there is quite a network of access roads in that direction.

He is making up his patch of trees. There is nothing but farmland.

From [email protected] Fri Oct 11 00:35:26 PDT 1996
Article: 73196 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer Takes the Bait!!!
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 08:20:13 GMT
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On 8 Oct 1996 16:38:40 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

> “Of course I ahve [sic] not been to the museum, dumbtwat….
> It is only a lying idiot dumbtwat who would suggest that
> visiting a particular museum is a sine que non for belief.”
> (Matt Giwer, Sept. 4, 1996)

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

>[a vulgar sot, desperate for attention, wrote]

> “The silly little bitch thinks she has said something
> important. She is in fact a fatbroad going to college for no
> other purpose than to find a husband.”

>>LOOK EVERYONE!!! See the Giwer get defensive! See the Giwer hurl
>>unbased, silly, childish insults at people he doesn’t know because he can
>>think of nothing better to say!! See the Giwer realizing he’s wrong,
>>after being proven wrong for the millionth time, and get all pissy about
>>it! Look everyone! It’s so much fun to bait a dim bulb like Giwer.
>>C’mon everyone!! Join in the fun! Post your own rebuttles proving
>>Giwer’s ignorance, and watch the troll squirm! Yay!

>Never mind the insults, Madam! Consider the victory, the HONOUR!
>Has not the silly little sh/^H^Hgiwer himself bestowed upon you the
>greatest honour he is capable of offering?

>Has he not admitted defeat, and inducted you?

> Are you not now a FATBROAD?
> http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/

>Rejoice! Rejoice! You’ve beaten the pathetic little sot. Now
>you can ignore him by putting him into your KILL file… no
>question it drives the little fella nuts, because he keeps
>changing his userid to get around them… he knows nothing
>about KILL files, of course, so it doesn’t work, but it’s
>amusing to watch.

>Fatbroad! Wow. Near immediate induction into the Sisterhood. Wow.