Documents

Giwer Matt, 5-1996 – p5

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:40 PDT 1996
Article: 67801 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:59:14 GMT
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On Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:06:28 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
wrote:

>In article
> [email protected] writes:

>> In article <843[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > And when we take over we will march into your synagogues and gun you all
>> > down, every single one of you. And you won’t be able to do anything about
>> > it because, like the dumb Yids you are, you have voted away the right to
>> > bear arms under the constitution.
>> >
>> > And when we’ve finished the kikes we’ll start on the niggers, then the queers,> > then the…
>>
>> This from Al Baron, who insists he is not an anti-Semite.
>>
>> I’d say the definitive proof of his hatred is right here.

>You really are one dumb fuck, aren’t you Schwarz? When the right to bear firearms
>has been abolished only the state will have guns, and whoever controls the
>state can wipe out whoever they want.

If you do not mind the correction, “only the state and criminals” will have
guns. Gun laws only disarm those who obey the law.

What results is a natural alliance between criminals and the state or at best a
hands off attitude by the state because criminals can shoot back.

That includes you wonderful Jews when
>the people who control the state have had a gutful of your incessant whining
>and wailing. This is actually the thesis of Benjamin Ginsberg’s THE FATAL
>EMBRACE: JEWS AND THE STATE, that throughout history Jews have risen to positiosn
>of great power in states which have become totalitarian and have then turned
>and persecuted them.

But you miss the point here. Jews view themselves as part of the protected
state and expect to be exempted from those gun laws, that licenses will be easy
for them to obtain. It is very much like anti-gun nuts Jane Fonda and Feinstein
who have concealed carry licenses in California where they are very difficult to
impossible to obtain without political connections.

Being without guns is only for the peasants and non-jews.

They simply do not have the sense to realize that no matter what the country or
society, the people eventually turn against those who consider themselves
superior. Turning against is not rational, it is not moral, it simply happens.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:40 PDT 1996
Article: 67802 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More Giwerundean scribblings
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:56:25 GMT
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On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 19:38:34 GMT, [email protected] (CHRIST SODOMIZER) wrote:

>dbel[email protected] (Derek Bell) took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>> “Holohuggers” – a derogatory name for reasonable people.

>Yeah, right. Having seen you people spend hours and hours spewing
>derogatory trash at the people who upset you, I can see easily that
>”reasonable” is not the word for you!

They mutually agree that they are reasonable. That had better be good enough
for them as it is all they have going for them.

FROM YOUR IMT:

DR SEIDL: When the witness was heard here I had no opportunity to
cross-examine him, and for that reason ….

PRESIDENT: Why did you have no opportunity to cross examine him?

DR SEIDL: Because I did not know beforehand that he would be called by the
Prosecution as a witness and had no opportunity to speak to the Defendant
Frank about the questions which might have been put to the witness.

[….]

DR SEIDL: May I perhaps add something to this point? The difficulty of cross
examination is just this, that we do not learn of the intended calling of a
witness by the Prosecution until the witness is led into the courtroom, and
we do not know the subject of the evidence until the Prosecution start to
examine the witness.

Just like in any regular trial.

Source: IMT, VIII, p. 521

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:41 PDT 1996
Article: 67804 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:04:52 GMT
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On 20 Sep 1996 15:55:09 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: That point is that yid-speak…

>Matt, we’re still waiting for the official retraction of your
>statement that you’re not an antisemite.

I have never made such a statement. Are you inhaling the phosphors?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing

There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:42 PDT 1996
Article: 67805 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Israel murdered again
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:01:05 GMT
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Lines: 93
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========

Indignation of an Israeli Writer: Ari Shavit

Cana: 102 Faceless Dead

We killed 170 people in Lebanon, most of whom were refugees, during the month of
April, 1996. Many of them were women, old people and children. We killed 9
civilians, one a 2 year old girl and one, a centenarian, in Sahmour, on April
11th. We killed 11 civilians, including 7 children, in Nabatyeh, on April 18th.
In the UN Camp in Cana, we killed 102 people. We made sure to inflict death from
a distance. In a very secular manner, without the archaic idea of sin, without
the antediluvian worry to consider man in the image of God, and without the
primitive proscription, “You shall not kill!”

Our solid alibi is that we are responsible for nothing, that the responsibility
falls on Hezbollah. A most doubtful alibi. For when we decided to launch a
massive attack on the civilian region of South Lebanon (while Israel ran no
vital risk), we decided, ipso facto, to spill the blood of X number of
civilians. When we decided to drive half a million people out of their homes and
to shell those who remained behind (while in Israel, we did not have one single
victim), we decided, in fact, to execute several dozen of them. This (alibi)
allowed us to make such cruel decisions without seeing ourselves as rotten.

We killed them because the increasingly wider gap between the sacrosanct
character that we attribute to our own lives and the more limited character we
give to theirs, allowed us to kill. We believe, in the most absolute manner,
with the White House, the Senate, the Pentagon, and the New York Times on our
side, that their lives do not have the same weight as ours. We are convinced
that with Dimona (Israel’s atomic site), Yad Vashem and the Shoah Museum in our
hand, we have the right to compel 400,000 people to evacuate their homes in 8
hours. And we have the right, at the end of 8 hours, to consider their homes as
military targets. And we reserve the right to rain 16,000 shells on their
villages and their populations. And we reserve the right to kill without any
guilt feelings.

But all this cannot alleviate the gravity of the massacre, Israeli style, and
our responsibility for its execution. For it is perpetrated, in general, in
places to which we give free range to immoderate violence.

The shelling of Cana was executed according to the rules, orders and objectives
of operation, “Grapes of Wrath.” There is something wrong in these rules, orders
and objectives. Something that is no longer human. Something that touches on the
criminal.

And all of us, without exception, were an integral part of this machine. The
public supported the media, who supported the government, who supported the
Chief of Staff, who supported the inquiry officer, who supported the officers,
who supported the soldiers who fired the three shells that killed 102 in Cana.

Nothing can prevent Cana from becoming an integral part of our biography.
Because, after Cana, we did not denounce the crime, we did not want to subject
the affair to the eyes of the law, we merely wanted to deny the horror and go on
with our current affairs. That is how Cana is part of ourselves — like one of
the features of our face.

As the massacre perpetrated by Baruch Goldstein (in the Cave of the Patriarchs
on Muslims while praying) and the crime committed by Ygal Amir (like the
reactions to them) were manifestations of rotten seeds in the heart of the
national-religious culture, the massacre of Cana is no less extreme a grain of
rottenness in the heart of secular Israeli culture: its cynicism, brutality,
instrumentalism, egocentrism of the powerful; this tendency to blur the frontier
between good and evil, between permitted and prohibited; this tendency not to
require justice, not to care about truth.

The manner in which contemporary Israel has functioned during and after Cana
shows that modern, rational Israeli life conceals a terrifying aspect.

Ari Shavit/Haaretz/New York Times Syndication. Ari Shavit is a writer and
columnist of the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. He lives in Jerusalem. (Translated
>from Hebrew in “Liberation” of May 21, 1996.)

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:43 PDT 1996
Article: 67810 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:28:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 08:17:43 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Where are the publications on gassing?

>So predictable.

>Asks for historians, gets historians. Changes request to historian who
>wrote on gassing.

>I’ve already predicted the next step.

>Will Giwer now ask for the historians’ credentials in chemistry?

>You betcha.

That was not a change, that was the original request. It was you folks who
shortened it, failing to provide the original request. But of course you will
come up with one that you can construe did not include gassing.

Such an obvious admission there are not three such historians.
=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:43 PDT 1996
Article: 67815 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The IDF pilots spoke English during their murder of the Liberty Crew
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:50:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 22 Sep 1996 15:12:29 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) makes an incredible ass of himself:

>> >> And you are very, very ignorant if you think one person in a hundred in
>Israel
>> >> speaks Hebrew beyond Torah reading. Hebrew died out as a living
>language more
>> >> than two thousand years ago.

> To which Keith Morrisson gave him a chance to retract:

>> >Want to reconsider that statement, Giwer? Or would you rather have
>someone
>> >posting from Israel to humiliate you first?

> Matty poo did not, of course, have the sense to take this convenient
>escape route:
>
>> Gee, and all I said was who speaks it. I said nothing about what
>feel-good law
>> there might designate.
>
>> Maybe you never watch ITN or CNN to hear live coverage of
>government speeches
>> given in english, on your TV they come through in hebrew.

> The speeches in the Knesset are all given in Hebrew. So are all
>”government” speeches that I have heard.

> Perhaps you can tell
>> me just how many street and shop signs you have seen in Hebrew. How many
>times
>> have you seen Tel Aviv and Jerusalem spelled in hebrew characters?

> All of them.

>
>> Perhaps you are going to claim the Demjanjuk show trial was
>conducted in hebrew.

> It was.

>
>
>> Perhaps you claim Israeli laws are promulgated in hebrew?

> Absolutely.

>
>> Just what is it you are trying to claim? That a law changes reality? I
>have
>> known quite a few Israeli ciitzens and now one of them spoke hebrew although
>one
>> claimed the slight hebrew content in yiddish was good enough to claim to
>speak
>> Hebrew, but was the same man who insisted yiddish was not a german dialect.

> They were putting you on. They saw a gullible fool and you believed
>them. It is also rather amazing that are not aware that, until the recent influx of
>Russian Jews the majority of Israelis (about 55%) were of Sephardic descent.

And of course they all speak Hebrew.

>> It is amazing how far you folks will go to protect jewish murderers.

> It is amazing how stupid you are.

I was so impressed by Net’n’yahoo’s speech in Hebrew I could just shit.

Amazing the fantasies you folks will attempt to perpetrate.

To get back to the point, the pilots spoke english. It is the common language
of Israel. Government business is conducted in english.

Hebrew is a dead language. It does not have words for any of today’s
technology. Of course we can just imagine them trying to find Hebrew words for
machinegun, bomb, napalm and torpedo as well as straffing and lifeboat.

Give it up. The IDF pilots spoke english and it is not surprising and it adds
to the credibility of the reports of murder.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:44 PDT 1996
Article: 67819 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:03:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
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On 22 Sep 1996 17:14:25 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 21 Sep 1996 20:36:32 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> That point is that yid-speak has been so used by the eastern european
>>> ^^^
>>> For someone who claims not to be an antisemite, you are inordinately
>>>fond of the word “yid”.
>> I have no idea who started the rumor that I have ever made any such
>> statement. Probably someone who lies to protect israeli murderers.

> So are you an anti-Semite?

I have never made a statement on the subject. Is that too hard for you to
understand? Yet the holohuggers here will spread the lie that I have.

Plain facts. I have made no statement and they have lied about it. Truth one,
liars zero.

Clear enough?

>>> Do you make a habit of referring, say, to Germans as “krauts” or
>>>French as “frogs”?

>> I have nothing against it.

> Oh, so you have nothing against being called “The Giwerdly Lion”? 😉

Would it matter if I cared what I am called? Holohuggers are such liars.

>>Do you have a problem with Brits and Yanks?

> I don’t use those terms myself and I don’t hang around those that do.

You are pushing political correctness to a new level of idiocy.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:45 PDT 1996
Article: 67820 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.europe,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:39:23 GMT
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:31:45 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:58:05 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>> >>
>> >>Answer the question. Do Jews who can trace their ancestory in Europe
>> >>back at least two thousand years count or don’t they?
>> >>
>[snip]

>> In your thinking take into account the two distinctly different
>ancestries of
>> European Jews. Consider that Eastern European Jews can only trace their
>> ancestry as jews back about 1000 years to converts. On the other hand
>southern
>> and western European Jews can generally trace their ancestory back 2000
>years.
>
>Let’s not forget that there are Jews (like me) who can trace their
>ancestry back about two generations. Period.
>
>Everyone else is dead.

Mine are too but I can still trace them. Perhaps this explains the incredible
claims, you folks just stop tracing when they die. Such a strange approach to
geneology explains a lot.

>When people discuss their “roots,” I often explain to them that I can
>trace mine back to a pit in the town of Stolin. That’s where my family
>history is.

Most of mine are in graves in Cincinnati but that does not mean I can not go
further. You are very strange.

>I know of very few Jews who can trace their ancestry back much farther
>than that.

You are fixated upon an event that never happened. That is the holohugger
mentality. Just plain strange.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:46 PDT 1996
Article: 67821 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: get a look at this idiot
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:24:59 GMT
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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
cc: [email protected]
Received: from relay.interserv.com ([165.121.1.67])
by mtigwc01.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 )
with SMTP id AAA15191; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:58:25 +0000
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Matthew Giwer ([email protected])
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 20:57:46 +0000
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Dear Sirs:

I am writing this letter to put you on notice of the
fact that a recent subscriber to your service, Matthew
Giwer, who posts under the address of
[email protected], has been requested not send any
e-mail to my address.

The circumstances of this prohibition is as follows.
Mr. Giwer is a virulent anti-Semite who frequently displays
his bigotry on a newsgroup Alt.revisionism. He had a
practicce of sending his anti-Semitic communications to
various people, including myself. Although requested not to
make such communciations he continued to do so. A complaint
was made to his former provider at [email protected] after
Mr. Giwer made an obscene reply to those requests. That
reply is attached to this e-mail.

As a result of this complaint, netcom.com informed
me that Mr. Giwer had been informed that any further e-mail
to me would constitute a violation of his agreement and his
service would be terminated.

At the same time complaints were lodged against Mr.
Giwer for extortionate threats he had made to an non-profit
group that operates a web-site called Nizkor; the fact that
he mailbombed Nizkor after they refused to comply with his
threats, and several death threats that he made on
Alt.revisionism. Should you wish confirmation of this
behavior, archived material can be found at either of the
following locations:

http://www.nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Home

Please note that, given his past behavior, I will
consider any further e-mail from this individual a direct
invasion of my privacy and take whatever legal steps
neccessary to enforce my rights. Please note as well that,
since he has been a subscriber to your servce, Mr. Giwer’s
posts to Alt.revisionism have included matter that is
actionable both as defamation and, pursuant to the
Restatement of Torts, 2nd, an invasion of privacy.

This e-mail has, at the direction of netcom.com,
been forwarded to Mr. Giwer so that he is aware of its
contents.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to
send me e-mail or contact me directly at this address:

Yale F. Edeiken
918 N. Bayard Street
Allentown PA 18104

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

–Yale F. Edeiken
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=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:47 PDT 1996
Article: 67822 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:58:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:52:46 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># And you are very, very ignorant if you think one person in
># a hundred in Israel speaks Hebrew beyond Torah reading.

>What language do you suppose is spoken in Israel?

The pilots spoke english. Beyond Torah reading not one person in a hundred
knows hebrew. Beyond torah reading not one person in hundred knew hebrew in
Judea 2000 years ago. It was a dead language then and it is a dead language
now.

Get over it.

># The Liberty was examined for ten minutes before the
># murder started.

>And misidentified.

Impossible. Not to mention the flag, the crew waving from their deck chairs,
the size, the antennas and the name.

># It is impossible for them not to know what they were doing.

>It most certainly was, more so as the TB boats were first fired
>upon by the Liberty and only then returned fire.

The attack was started by the IDF aircraft which included straffing and napalm
runs. The planes were not Migs therefore they were Israeli. The only torpedo
boats in range had to be Israeli and they matched Israeli profiles.

Therefore any firing was upon their attackers, the murdering IDF.

># I define anyone who sides with murderers as a murder. That
># means you, jew.

>Get a job, loser. This may be helpful, although it’s probably
>too late.

Fucking traitor jew.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:48 PDT 1996
Article: 67824 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:29:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 21 Sep 1996 18:05:33 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>[a moron’s raving snipped]
>[a moron raving snippeds]

>>Translation: Moran has been exposed for the pathetic little worm and
>>anti-Semitic Holocuast denier he is -and has no cogent rebuttal. Again.

>Translation: Morans have been exposed for the pathetic little worm and
>anti-Semitic Holocaust deniers he am -and has no cogent rebuttalses.
>Again.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/moran-tom/

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>[email protected] |———————————————
>——————–| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>International Military Tribunal: https://nizkor.org/hweb/imt/

=====

And other than the lies of YFE there are not claims of autopseys showlng gassing
as the cause of death. The complete lack of forensic evidence is quite telling.

And of course that is on top of the complete lack of physical evidence does not
do well for the claims of the holohuggers.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67827 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:01:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50agrb$17s@sjx <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <3240ff54.34076[email protected]> <[email protected]> <324448FD.72[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:07:27 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>folks, don’t bother replying to this idiot. he is some fruitcake
>neo-nazi… has been desperately trying to gain attention for a while.

>killfile material.

>ef

Thank you. Less noise on the revisionist front.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67838 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars… – fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:38:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 149
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:00:23 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <5[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ceacaa) wrote:

>> Daniel Keren wrote on 17 Sep 1996
>>
>> (Ceacaa) (Andrew Allen) writes:
>>
>> # One would imagine that the security arrangements
>> # guarding these condemed men would be rather
>> # high, especially as the Soviet armies approached
>> # the Camp.
>>
>> >They were.
>>
>> Gee, Dan. Try looking at a picture of the completed
>> Cremas. Pressac Technique pages 342 and 343 have
>> such pictures. One wire fence. No lights. No guard towers
>> except at westend of buildings. No bars on windows. No gate on exit to
>> Camp.

>Mr. Allen, may I direct your attention to _Air Photo Evidence_, pp. 38-39?
>There, if you dare, you will see that the Holocaust denier, Mr. Ball, has,
>from the May 31, 1944, aerial photo of Birkenau (RG 373 Can D 1508,
>exp.3055), identified the guard towers surrounding the Kremas.

I have taken the liberty of attaching an aerial photo of the entire Birkenau
camp. Would you care to indentify the guard towers?

>In fact, from the map Mr. Ball so convientantly provides (p.38), one can
>see that the four guard towers at the western perimeter of Kremas II and
>II are but part of the 37 (as identified by Mr. Ball) perimeter guard
>towers surrounding the Birkenau extermination camp. However, examining
>Photo 17 bis (_Technique_, p.341), one can also see that there is _also_ a
>guard tower at the _eastern_ perimeter of Krema II, between Camp B-Ib and
>the grounds of Krema II.

Four on the western “perimeter” of II and III are not obvious. Would you care
to mark them and repost the picture? The “west” would be the top edge of the
top two Kremas. And while you are at it could you do mark the two on the other
side?

Much appreciated.

>Oops there, Mr. Allen.

>As to to the “one wire fence,” which was part of the perimeter fence
>system, you seem to have “forgotten,” Mr. Allen, that the perimeter fence
>system at the Birkenau extermination camp was electrified (cf. _Anatomy_,
>p.503) -as were the fences surrounding the Kremas:

>”…Perhaps indeed the signs on the KZ’s electric barbed wire also lied;
>perhaps there was really no 6,000-volt current running through it. But no,
>that was no lie, for I remembered having seen Oberschaarfu”hrer Mussfeld’s
>giant wolfhound run into the fence one day, at a point not far from the
>crematorium gate, and die instantly, electrocuted.” (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_,
>p.112.)

>Oops again, Mr. Allen.

You mean this Nyiszli?

Dr. Mengele, the medical “selector” made a sign. They lined up again
in two groups. The left-hand column included the aged, the crippled,
the feeble and women with children under fourteen. The right-hand
column consisted entirely of able-bodied men and women: those able to
work. In this later group I noticed my wife and fourteen year old
daughter. We no longer had any way of speaking to each other; all we
could do was make signs. Those too sick to walk, the aged and insane,
were loaded into Red Cross vans. (The Dr. worked for Mengele doing
disections and other medical work. This is after a gas chamber is
filled with 3,000 naked men, women and children.) …The doors swung
shut and from without the lights were switched off. At that very
instant the sound of a car was heard: a delux model, furnished by the
International Red Cross. An SS officer and a SDG Deputy Health Officer
stepped from the car. The Deputy Health Officer held four green
sheet-iron canisters. He advanced across the grass, where every thirty
yards short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned
his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of
concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents–a mauve
granulated material–into the opening. (The Dr. writes that within
five minutes everyone was dead). …For every convoy it was the same
story. Red Cross cars brough the gas from the outside. There was never
a stock of it in the crematorium. The precaution was scandalous, but
still more scandalous was the fact that the gas was brought in a car
bearing the insignia of the International Red Cross. (this book
contains a great deal of information about what the doctor did while
in the camp. No mention of official inspections by the International
Red Cross.

=====

Lets see, mauve ZB (see, Mauving right along) on this matter. And then he sees
pipes coming right out of the ground when every claim and claimed picture of the
building holds that the building roof is well above ground.

Excuse me, but when a “witness” lies on one matter his testimony can be
discarded entirely on quite valid grounds.

Also the reason why 6000 thousand volts is ridiculous is too hard for
holohuggers to grasp.

>Furthermore, Mr. Allen, your claim that there is “no gate on [the] exit to
>[the] Camp” (the ramp actually) in the photos on pages 342 and 343 is
>quite in error. Examining Photo 18 (p.342), one can see the two halves of
>the gate to Krema III, at the right edge of the photo, which appears to be
>open. Additionally, in Photo 20 (p.343) the half-open gate to Krema II is
>clearly seen.

>Big oops there, Mr. Allen.

If you will look at the attached photo you will find the entrances face each
other.

>[snip]

>> # As noted in a posting of several days ago, Crema III
>> # was only watched by a small guardtower with
>> # windows that didn’t open!

>A “a small guardtower,” Mr. Allen? The Allied aerial photo of May 31,
>1944, clearly show at least _two_ guard towers. Considering that there
>were at least _three_ guard towers around Krema II, it is quite likely
>that there could have been more than two guard towers surrounding Krema
>III.

>Oops yet again, Mr. Allen.

I will be interested to see your repost of the picture with the marks.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:50 PDT 1996
Article: 67839 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:21:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Sep 1996 14:05:47 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: I would only execute murderers like McNamara and all of the
>: IDF in 1967 as a minimum.

>People Matt wants to execute (so far):

>1. Robert McNamara

>2. Everybody who was a member of the Israeli Defense Force in 1967

They are worthy of it.

>3. Danny Keren

>4. Joel Rosenberg

When did I say that?

>5. Any Jew who supports Israel

Not at all. I only wish to point out those who are defending murder. They
should face it themselves and be proud of defending murder.

>6. Anybody who thinks he’s an antisemite

>See why people think you’re a nut, Matt?

Because people make up things I have not said? Do you have another reason?

Holohuggers have such a weak grasp of reality they can not tell it from their
own imaginings.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:51 PDT 1996
Article: 67846 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Impressions of the evidence and the reality
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:20:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 318
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Impressions of the evidence and the reality

Matt Giwer

Those who support the holocaust work hard to leave the
impression that they have investigated every aspect of it in
detail. They often say that it is the most documented event in
history.

They are lying. The facts are otherwise.

The greatest investigation of the holocaust was conducted by
the nations of Britain, France, the United States and the Soviet
Union immediately after WW II. At the time they conducted this
investigation they had complete control of Europe and unlimited
funds and manpower to conduct the investigation. They were not
limited by the niceties of search warrants or probable cause or
reluctant witnesses; what they wanted they took, period.

All of this was presented at the Nuremberg and other trials
that constitute the War Crimes Trials. At those trials one
picture of events was presented. That picture has been
forgotten and is no longer in the literature.

What has followed those trials is what in the security
business we call sanitizing the evidence. It means putting the
Xs into the statement, “The missile has a range of XXXX miles.”
The range is something we do not want people to know.

The writers that followed those trials did something
similar. They wrote about particular bits and pieces of the
trial evidence while leaving out what was inconvenient. For
example although today you would be hardpressed to find any
mention of other than gassing and bullets in the holocaust
extermination literature, while electrocution, suffocation,
steaming, burning alive, hammers, axes, scythes, everything but
golf clubs were indicted as means of mass extermination at the
trials.

Why are those things left out these days? The writers will
not tell us. In the absense of a reason, I will suggest a
reason, there is no physical evidence for those other methods.

To me that is a good reason but it does not explain why
there was sworn testimony to all of those methods of mass
extermination at the war crimes trials. I do not mean passing
mention, I mean testimony that was used to condemn people to
death. Why was there testimony to things for which there was no
evidence?

But one step further, those means of mass execution not only
lack evidence but are in fact incredible if we consider the
context in which the methods were used. For example,
electrocution sounds reasonable until we find it was supposed to
have been used as part of a conveyor belt system where people
passively lay on it to be electrocuted. Although steaming would
have been extremely inefficient it could have been done until we
discover the description of the equipment given by the witnesses
in sworn testimony.

In other words, witnesses clearly lied about many methods of
execution. So we have to ask the obvious question, if they lied
about so many methods what makes anything think they were telling
the truth about gassing? Why does gassing make sense when the
other methods do not?

That is a question none of the writers can answer. Some say
that cyanide compounds are found on the walls of the buildings
they suppose to be gas chambers. I hate to point out to them
that cyanide was used as pesticide and is not more surprising to
find than DDT traces in old buildings in the US.

More than that, DDT was only effective against insects.
Cyanide (delivered as hydrogen cyanide by the commercial product
Zyklon B) was effective against both insects and rodents. It was
so common for delousing clothing, bedding and furniture that the
manufacturer, Degesh, of Zyklon B made the majority of their
profits from fixed and mobile chambers for treating people’s
possessions. At one point they advertised that they had deloused
the possessions of half the population of Germany.

Often when I write about the past I have to point out just
how different things were in past. Here we have the recent past
in the thoroughly modern and civilized country of Germany which
has a major industry dealing with control of body lice. I agree
that is very difficult for people to fit into a world picture
today but that is the way it was.

However as a mitigating factor for Germany, the problem with
body lice became worse the further east they went. In east
central Europe body lice was endemic. And so was the typhus the
lice carried.

Putting this all together any knowledgeable person would
expect to find all kinds of buildings, chambers and mobile
vehicles that use cyanide to delouse clothing and possessions
such as mattresses. We also expect the “unsanitary” eastern
Europeans to be suspicious and start rumors about the German “gas
chambers.”

To return from this digression, it is not surprising that
the “unsanitary” eastern europeans would report gas chambers used
by the invading Germans. It is also not surprising that there
would be such rumors in the internment camps where there was a
pressing need for such gas chambers. It is also not surprising
that the Soviets would seize upon and use such rumors in order to
kill Nazis, their political and religious [1] enemies for more than a
quarter of a century.

So we can see why the writers who followed the war crimes
trials to make their fortunes were so ready to settle upon
gassing and ignore the original picture developed by the War
Crimes Tribunal. They are like the writers/vultures who
exploited the Kennedy assassination and the Nicole Brown Simpson
murder for their own benefit. They cut through the mire of
conflicting and absurd evidence and presented a simple conspiracy
theory.

In this watered down story, which is really no more than a
continuation of a long conflict [1], a simple conspiracy is
presented. The conspiracy is that since Hitler was a youth he
had wanted to destroy all Jews and his entire life was directed
toward that objective and he almost succeeded. It is stated a
bit differently, that his entire life was motivated by a hatred
of Jews, but the conclusion is the same.

It is the dark sort of nonsense that clouds psychoanalysis,
that a deep-seated but hidden motivation can be the cause of
every action in one’s life. In the case of Hitler, antisemitism
is offered in place of incorrect potty training even though both
are equally trivial nonsense. In foundation it is no more than
an old story of good versus evil where the motivation of evil is
on the order of being in league with the devil, pure evil that
needs no further explanation.

With all of this we find ourselves looking at this “most
documented event in history” as nothing more than a rejection of
millions of man-hours of real investigation and in exchange given
a good versus evil morality play that is worthy only of a story
for children.

When we get down to the physical evidence we find the above
pesticide traces in otherwise unremarkable buildings and exactly
three letters of supposedly Nazi but questionable origin that
have one or two cryptic words that might refer to gassing people.
And that is all there is. There is not one thing more in the way
of physical evidence.

It is not that the writers are only looking at this physical
evidence. It is that it is the only physical evidence ever
presented. It is all there is. With it they are trying to
support their conspiracy.

For example, they hold that the Nazis used “code words” when
they were referring to extermination. And thus there was a
secret government conspiracy. (Some writers claim that everyone
knew about it but they are simply promoting a different
conspiracy.)

Anyone familiar with the “New World Order” conspiracy knows
how powerful such code words are. Anyone who is familiar with
the conspiracy of blacks to take over the country knows about the
power of code words. Anyone who knows about the Jewish
conspiracy knows the power of Jewish code words. And of course
holohuggers know the power of Nazi code words.

But if we eliminate the code words and demand a conspiracy
be proven first rather than assumed all the supposed physical
evidence vanishes. And when that is gone we are left with
testimony.

Although at first testimony appears powerful it has to be
pointed out that it is testimony that claimed all of the above
forms of mass exterimation were used but are now ignored by
holocaust writers.

And of course the primary feature of the testimony are the
confessions of nazis to having gassed (and steamed and
electrocuted and shot and clubbed and scythed etc.) people.

Newcomers to holocaust gassing discussions often think they
have the final arguement in favor of gassing. “If there was no
gassing, why did Nazis admit it?” On the face of it, that
appears to be a profound rhetorical question that ends all
further questioning.

But clearly there is another rhetorical question to ask. “If
witchcraft is impossible why did people admit to being witches?”
The penalties were in fact worse as the Nazis were only looking
toward a rope while witches were looking towards a bonfire.
(They both appear to have suffered some form of torture.)

Of course strange times centuries ago, and in fact barely
comprehensible times, appear easy to dismiss based solely upon
the distance and the strangeness. But even today there are
people who will confess to crimes they did not commit. And the
more heinous the crime the more people who will confess.

False confessions are such a common and well known problem
that the police routinely leave something obvious out of the
press release that they can ask the would be criminals to prevent
wasting time on false confessions.

What originally appeared to be a rhetorical question stopping
all discussion in fact raises the larger question of why people
will confess to things they did not do. And why the more heinous
the crime the more likely for people to confess to it? We do not
have an answer to this question but, as all courts and all
prosecutors and all police know, an admission of guilt is not in
itself proof of anything.

The question regarding gassing and regarding consorting with
the devil are identical questions. They are questions about
human nature. They are not evidence for either gassing or
witchcraft.

Confessions are obviously a problematic issue. But even if
we admit confessions to the discussion then we have to deal with
all the testimonies, not simply those that can be contorted to
support the Nazi conspiracy theory.

As with witchcraft we have many confessions to the absurd,
the improbable and the impossible.

Take for example the confession of a Nazi doctor who worked
with the infamous Dr. Mengele. He confessed to infecting people
with cancer. On the face of it, that appears to be a damning
confession. But when you realize that even today we do not know
how to infect anyone with cancer it exposes the testimony as a
clear lie.

Why would a man confess not only to what did not happen but
to the impossible? We do not know the reason this person had to
lie, we only know that he lied. He confessed to heinous crime
that was and still is impossible to commit today.

Depending upon your skeptic threshold we have confessions to
all kinds of improbable things. Almost all of them start off
with, “I was ordered to help once” in killing people. The
emphasis is always on the “once” to avoid culpability.

Another point of interest in the current versions of the
stories is that they almost invariably mention jews as the
victims even though in the IMT testimony that the victims are
jewish is mentioned in perhaps ten percent of the testimony. The
story has gone from one of ten to ten of ten. In the technical
fields we call that an order of magnitude increase. In this case
an order of magnitude falsification.

And there is more that is lacking. There is a complete lack
of any medical evidence, what we call forensic evidence, the sort
of thing that is developed when a body is sent to a coroner for
an autopsey.

In one respect we would not expect to find remains if the
bodies were burned. But in fact cremation does not result in
ashes but rather bone fragments. These fragments weigh from four
to six pounds and they have to have been disposed of somewhere
but they are no where to be found.

As there are 4-6 pounds of “ashes” per body then there would
be 2-3 thousand tons per million people. By current estimates at
Auschwitz alone that is 3000 and 4500 tons of bone fragments.
They are no where to be found. Back when it was liberated by the
Russians they were not found.

But then it took some 70 lbs of coke to cremate a body. But
not only are there no records of 35,000 tons of coke having been
delivered to the camp there needs be another 3500 tons of coke
ash to be found. It is no place to be found.

Not only can we not find the bodies, we can not find the
slightest evidence of what might have happened to the bodies.
There is simply no evidence of anything surrounding these
stories that would support their being true.

But wait, there’s less. We can not even find disturbed
ground where bodies are supposed to have been burned. We have
aerial pictures of such areas during and after it was supposed to
have happened and not one sign of any of it.

At this point I could introduce you to the little claimed
evidence and refute it but then very few holohuggers even know
what it is. I could also provide dozens of examples of absurd
testimony that has been excluded from the only serious
investigation ever but again that takes enough time to bore you.
Some day I will collect things like this as sort of a humorous
interlude in collection of these writings.

=====

[1] See “The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of
the Twentieth Century” by Matt Giwer

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:08:52 PDT 1996
Article: 67854 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!news.nacamar.de!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW I and US involvement
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:49:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 110
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 21 Sep 1996 21:19:44 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
>>Uh-uh. Get in line, Derek. I’m still waiting for evidence that
>>recording tape was invented in the fifties.

> Seems like Prince Myshkin is trying to outdo himself in his folly.

>>Been waiting for months, now.

> I’m not expecting a reply from Giwer – if he replies at all on either
>the claim he made to you or the one he made to me, I’d be surprised.

> But then, Matt _is_ a sad little troll.

> Derek
>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: truer than true testimony
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 09:49:00 GMT

Gas Chamber Myths

Some former inmates and a few historians have claimed that Jews were put
to death in gas
chambers at Bergen-Belsen. For example, an “authoritative” work
published shortly after the end
of the war, A History of World War II, informed readers: “In Belsen,
[Commandant] Kramer kept an
orchestra to play him Viennese music while he watched children torn from
their mothers to be
burned alive. Gas chambers disposed of thousands of persons daily.”
(note 31)

In Jews, God and History, Jewish historian Max Dimont wrote of gassings
at Bergen-Belsen.
(note 32) A semi-official work published in Poland in 1981 claimed that
women and babies were
“put to death in gas chambers” at Belsen. (note 33)

In 1945 the Associated Press news agency reported: (note 34)

In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the trial
of 45 men and
women for war crimes at the Belsen and Oswiecim [Auschwitz]
concentration camps,
said that 80,000 Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz,
Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.

Five decades after the camp’s liberation, British army Captain Robert
Daniell recalled seeing
“the gas chambers” there. (note 35)

Years after the war, Robert Spitz, a Hungarian Jew, remembered taking a
shower at Belsen in
February 1945: “… It was delightful. What I didn’t know then was that
there were other showers in
the same building where gas came out instead of water.” (note 36)

Another former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from
death as an
eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian
newspaper, the French-born
Peer claimed that he “was sent to the [Belsen] camp gas chamber at least
six times.” The
newspaper account went on to relate: “Each time he survived, watching
with horror as many of the
women and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer
doesn’t know how he
was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer mused:
“Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he
acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who were
deported to the camp in
1944, all somehow survived internment there.) (note 37)

Such gas chamber tales are entirely fanciful. As early as 1960,
historian Martin Broszat had
publicly repudiated the Belsen gassing story. These days no reputable
scholar supports it. (note
38)

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:27:36 PDT 1996
Article: 44255 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:47:58 GMT
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:04:34 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Germany only invaded Silesia which was part of Germany that had
>been given to
>> Poland. England declared war against Germany in defense of the Treaty of
>> Versailles despite the excuse that it was in defense of Poland. Had it
>been the
>> latter they would have attacked Russia also.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”

>Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
>causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
>has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
>counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

Gas Chamber Myths

In 1945 the Associated Press news agency reported: (note 34)

Five decades after the camp’s liberation, British army Captain Robert
Daniell recalled seeing
“the gas chambers” there. (note 35)

Such gas chamber tales are entirely fanciful. As early as 1960,
historian Martin Broszat had
publicly repudiated the Belsen gassing story. These days no reputable
scholar supports it. (note
38)

From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 23:27:37 PDT 1996
Article: 44263 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:34:46 GMT
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:53:31 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> If it pleases you to call it whining, that is your choice.
>>
>> Rather it was an observation for the lurkers.

>> […deletia…]

>> That is good. It gives me an open forum.

>> […deletia…]

>> If Alec said such a thing, he lied.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

========

Indignation of an Israeli Writer: Ari Shavit

Cana: 102 Faceless Dead

Our solid alibi is that we are responsible for nothing, that the responsibility
falls on Hezbollah. A most doubtful alibi. For when we decided to launch a
massive attack on the civilian region of South Lebanon (while Israel ran no
vital risk), we decided, ipso facto, to spill the blood of X number of
civilians. When we decided to drive
half a million people out of their homes and to shell those who remained behind
(while in Israel, we did not have one single victim), we decided, in fact, to
execute several dozen of them. This (alibi) allowed us to make such cruel
decisions without seeing ourselves as rotten.

We killed them because the increasingly wider gap between the sacrosanct
character that we attribute to our own lives and the more limited character we
give to theirs, allowed us to kill. We believe, in the most absolute manner,
with the White House,
the Senate, the Pentagon, and the New York Times on our side, that their lives
do not
have the same weight as ours. We are convinced that with Dimona (Israel’s atomic
site), Yad Vashem and the Shoah Museum in our hand, we have the right to compel
400,000 people to evacuate their homes in 8 hours. And we have the right, at the
end of 8 hours, to consider their homes as military targets. And we reserve the
right to rain 16,000 shells on their villages and their populations. And we
reserve the right to kill without any guilt feelings.

The shelling of Cana was executed according to the rules, orders and objectives
of
operation, “Grapes of Wrath.” There is something wrong in these rules, orders
and
objectives. Something that is no longer human. Something that touches on the
criminal.

As the massacre perpetrated by Baruch Goldstein (in the Cave of the Patriarchs
on
Muslims while praying) and the crime committed by Ygal Amir (like the reactions
to them) were manifestations of rotten seeds in the heart of the
national-religious culture, the massacre of Cana is no less extreme a grain of
rottenness in the heart
of secular Israeli culture: its cynicism, brutality, instrumentalism,
egocentrism of the powerful; this tendency to blur the frontier between good and
evil, between permitted and prohibited; this tendency not to require justice,
not to care about truth.

The manner in which contemporary Israel has functioned during and after Cana
shows that modern, rational Israeli life conceals a terrifying aspect.

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 00:09:13 PDT 1996
Article: 67866 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:51:44 GMT
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:50:13 -0400, Mary Apicella wrote:

>Dear Matt,
> I glanced through other remarks that you have made about this issue.
>HOW COULD YOU MAKE THESE STATEMENTS! ARE YOU EVIL, OR JUST DON’T LIKE JEWISH PEOPLE?

Thank you for the pleasant introduction and fuck you and the horse who rode you
in. It is such open minded and well bred women such as yourself who constantly
restore my faith in generation the new college generation.

>To be blunt, are you a bigot? Are you an American? I am an American. Looking back at
>the history of the Holocaust, over 6 million inocent Jewish people died.

You have obviously been suckered into believing there is evidence that such a
thing occurred. You have also be brainwashed into ignoring the 6 million
christians who are reported to have suffered the same fate.

Nothing was
>done for years! The President at the time knew about this and took NO ACTION. How can
>you sleep at night knowing this happened.

I was born knowing how to sleep. Why were you so poorly endowed?

In fact I have looked into the holohugger claim and despite their pretentions
the story being spread was that people were being killed in all sorts of
fanciful ways that no one believes today. I have also examine aerial photos
taken shortly after FDR was supposed to have been informed and they show no
signs of such activity whatsoever.

If you were familiar with war time hysteria and propaganda you would know why
the story was discarded at the time. First off extermination itself was
incredible. Second the means of accomplishing it were incredible. Third,
photos showed no evidence of it. Fourth, regular radio contact with the inmates
contained no such reports. Fifth regular escapees brought no such report.

The only two people making the report could not substantiate their ever having
been at Auschwitz.

And beyond that, the only action that could have been taken would have been
bombing the rail lines which is quite ineffective but in doing so would have
interfered with shipments of food and medicine. In light of the shaky nature of
the report against the known consequences of acting upon them, there was no
reason to do anything.

I would like to say that I am proud to be an
>American…But how can I knowing that our president refused to help. We seceded from
>England and gained our freedom. Everyone should have that, with out the threat of
>complete anilation.

You should rather consider that history is never so simple as that there is only
one side to it. You should rather know the sworn testimony to other means of
execution such as assembly line electrocutions, steaming, vacuum chambers,
clubs, axes, scythes, burning alive and other methods of mass execution no one
believes today.

You should know of the sworn testimony to burning people without fuel, to
infecting people with cancer, to all sorts of impossible things. Not just
rumor, sworn testimony. I even have sworn testimony to a “victim” hearing the
demonic laughter of pilots flying overhead over the noise of their engines.
That is not just a casual comment but rather SWORN, under OATH testimony.

If you believe such things, I would suggest you should save the money being
spend on your college education and apply yourself to the fast food or home care
businesses for which you are much better qualified.

Hitler did this because he didn’t like the Jews. Are you a
>HITLERHUGGER? Do you have no life? Do you need to ridicule, and put down others to
>substantiate your own meaningless, and insignificant life? Everyone should be treated
>with the equal respect that they deserve.

Some day when you are old enough to have read the sworn testimooy story of the
holocaust which contains many many more absurd things than I have included here,
when you discover there is no physical evidence for the gassing any more than
there is physical evidence for all the other sworn means of mass killing and
when you learn to think for yourself, you may be ready to discuss this subject.

Until then you are not.

>YOU DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE THE FLAGITIOUS PERSON THAT YOU APPEAR TO BE.

When did you memorize that word?

>Happy YOM KIPPUR….

I do not deal with silly religious superstitions.

>Mary Apicella (No, I’m not Jewish. Just intelligent!)

But ignorant of the complete holocaust story and very illogical and immature.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 00:09:15 PDT 1996
Article: 67867 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of the Twentieth Century
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:12:49 GMT
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The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of
the Twentieth Century

From Versailles to Nuremberg

Matt Giwer

There is a long story of connected events in this time frame
that is rarely told. Nothing I am going to say is anything new
it is only the connections that I am going to hightlight that you
may not have heard before. I will tell you up front that even
suggesting things like you are going to read is often called
antisemitic.

Because all of these are all public information this is not
to be taken as something that is hidden behind the scenes. Nor
should they be taken as the secret explanation of events. These
are all just other factors out of thousands of factors over a
quarter of a century that lead to our post WW II world.

I wish to point out the often overlooked threads of Russian
Communist and Jewish involvement in WW I and WW II against
Germany. For example, the primary reason the US was tricked into
WW I was the British forgery of the Zimmerman note. What is
overlooked is the World Jewish Congress agreement with England to
particitpate in stirring up American sentiment against Germany
because of that note.

In none of these matters were either the Russian Communists
nor the Zionist jews the masterminds behinds the scenes. They
were simply active participants among many others. As a matter
of perspective, these are only a few thousand words and a
reasonably complete history of this time frame would require as
many volumes as I have words.

* * * * *

For decades apologists for communism tried to distance it
>from both fascism and nazism. Yet Mussolini clearly stated that
he made up the name fascism because the Catholic Church was so
opposed to communism. Hitler privately saw himself as being a
practical implementer of marxism as opposed to the theorists in
Russia.

The practical difference between them and the communists was
public versus private ownership of the means of production. In
all three cases the means of production were completely under the
control of the state and directed to the political policies of
the state. As a practical point, fascism and nazism made the
profit of the owners the incentive to do what was right
regardless of what the bureaucrats ordered.

Another fact lost today, but well known and often mentioned
by people like Winston Churchill early in this century, is that
the early revolutionary communist movement was primarily Jewish.
Estimates ran as high as 90% of Communist Party members being
Jewish. This may be an undesirable fact to talk about today but
that does not make it less of a fact. (It is a poorly kept
secret that Senator Joe McCarthy chose jewish lawyers for his
legal staff in his hunt for American Communists to avoid the
label of antisemitic.)

The context of the rise of these political systems is set
against the First World War. Lenin and Trotsky brought down the
Tzar not by the force of their principles and political thought
but by exploiting the hundreds of thousands of homeless, injured
war veterans on the streets of all of the cities of Russia. They
did not sell communism but rather the end of the war.

Their final victory was handed to them when the Tzar took
personal control of the army and thus was seen as having personal
responsibility for the continuing defeats. The prior policy had
been to blame failure on the generals and shoot them. Thus the
Tzar gave up his political insulation from the military failures.

Little is commonly known about the pro-German events
immediately prior to the entry of the US into WW I. Most people
know that there was a stalement in trench warfare. Few know that
Germany offered France and England peace and that the terms were
simply that everyone withdraw to their previous borders. That
is, to pretend the war never happened.

England had no real choice in that unless they could get
unlimited support and manpower from the US. US support had been
limited to what England could pay for in one way or another. Any
American who wanted to fight in that war had to first go to
Canada and join up there.

At that point, the World Jewish Congress and England made an
agreement. The former would work to get the US into the war if
the latter would make Palestine a Jewish homeland. The former
delivered and the latter produced the Balfour Declaration.

Now that stands out a bit, the World Jewish Congress
suddenly shows up in the middle of a war between nations. That
sounds a bit strange today but it is hardly different from
Amnesty International or the Red Cross intruding in wars. But
then why did they intrude in this manner?

Some decades earlier a movement called Zionism was founded.
its purpose was to recreate Israel in the middle east and for
Jews to return there. Although mentioning it has a touch
unpleasant sound as one risks being called antisemitic if the
incorrect words are said about it, it was an open movement at the
time.

It remained a purely Jewish movement embraced by no nation.
The usual national response was, if our jewish citizens wish
nothing more than to leave the country of their birth and live
some place else then we invite them to leave immediately. Words
to that effect were echoed by Jewish and Christian political
leaders alike.

Although it did not achieve much internal expression within
nations it became a politically powerful movement and found its
international expression in the World Jewish Congress. So we see
the WJC was simply a convenient front for the Zionist Movement as
due to its world wide reach could promise support within the
Uniteed States.

The support they were able to deliver was a change from
pro-german isolationism to support of a militant anti-german
spirit. The British needed only to seed it with the Zimmerman
Note and there was an immediate aboutface by American jews and
jewish organizations.

Prior to WW I, US Jews were strongly pro-Germany. After the
agreement was made with England they became anti-Germany and
demanded an end to isolationism. England simply created the
Zimmerman Note and American Jews hyped it as a cause for war.

It is interesting to note the parallel in this between the
two world wars. Prior to war breaking out between Russia and
Germany, the communists in the US were leading isolationists.
After war broke out they were hellbent upon the US joining in the
war against Germany. There were not secret messages transferred
or orders given, the publications of the Worker’s World
International and other communist organizations simply attacked
Hitler and the Communist Party of the United States, CPUS, simply
followed suit. So too it was with American jewish organizations
during WW I.

The only common thread here is the heavy jewish involvement
in communism. That is not outstanding either. For example,
Irish-Americans have been the primary financial support for the
Irish Republican Army for a century and that has always been a
terrorist organization.

As a result US finanical and manpower support of England and
France in WW I Germany lost and the Treaty of Versailles was
imposed upon Germany. This was imposed by England’s blockade of
Germany causing massive starvation. The assurances that Wilson
was given, that his proposed treaty would become the basis for
the settlement of the war (which was also a condition of German
surrender), was ignored as planned.

In other words the US was tricked, used and discarded as
planned. That, more than anything else, was the cause of the
sharp and drastic return of the US to isolationism. Regardless
of the official position of the US government the people were
well aware of what happened, they had been used.

As a result of this treaty parts of Germany, better known as
the Austro-Hungarian empire were given to other countries.
Twenty years later Germany reclaiming those lands would be used
as examples of German aggression. For example, what is referred
to as the invasion of Poland was rather the reclaiming of Silesia
that was a part of Germany before it was given to Poland by the
imposed treaty.

Now one grants the borders in Europe had been fluid since
the Roman Empire expanded into it. And one further grants that
Silesia was no exception. But there was a major difference in
Silesia, Poland was expelling German descent citizens of Poland
into Germany and keeping their property. Germany maintained
refugee camps on the Polish border for nearly two decades because
of this expulsion policy of Poland.

One more point about communism in Europe, all countries had
communist parties, including Germany, France, England, and that
influence even spread to the US. The communist take over of
Russia was not the beginning of attempts to take over countries,
rather it was simply the first success. The communist parties in
the other countries had the same objective as that of Russian
communists.

And all over the world marxists under various names
including communist were organized and nations feared revolution.
In the 20s Churchill committed one of his earliest political
blunders calling in tanks to break up a communist lead strike
which resulted in an unknown number of deaths. By comparison in
the 30s, the Nazis merely sent them to camps.

Whatever one says about the Nazis has to be considered in
light of the times in which it occurred. No one can understand
the casual antisemitism in Germany in the 20s and 30s without
knowing it was as bad or worse in the rest of Europe and the US
at the time. Otherwise it is like viewing women’s rights during
the Frence Revolution in terms of 1990s US women’s rights
policies. (Granted there are many people who prefer such
simplistic thought.)

The two countries in the weakest political position after WW
I were Italy and Germany. Five years after the war Mussolini
rose to power in Italy promising strong central leadership,
something that went back to the Roman Empire and had been so
recently reinforced by Garibaldi. This was in no small part due
to his public opposition to the communist party of Italy for
which he gained the support of the Vatican.

The political situation did not stabilize in Germany for
another decade. In that time the literally warring political
parties formed fragile ruling majorities in the Reichstag under
the kludge constitution imposed on her after the war. Finally in
1933 Hitler as the leader of the National Socialist Germany
Worker’s Party, NSDAP, was given the opportunity to form a
government in the manner of any Pariamentary form of government.

Between the end of WW I and Hitler forming a government
feelings about Jews went from bad to worse. As after any lost
war there was a search for the cause of the loss. It was quite
clear that the entry of the US into the war against Germany and
its military and financial support were the cause.

It was a simple step to go from that to identifying the
reason for the US entry, the sudden change from isolationism to
a pro-intervention stance by American Jews and from there to the
Balfour Declaration as a quid pro quo for that change.

Then too, when Germany was into the post WW I
hyperinflation, German Jews appeared to have near unlimited
supplies of hard foreign currencies and were buying up everything
of value. They also seemed to have the money to pay the bribes
to get the choice government and university jobs. In those few
years German Jews went from a merchant and artisan class the
social elite of the country.

Now of course many have been screaming antisemitic for
paragraphs now. Please keep in mind that I am not saying
anything that is not documented. It is simply not so well known.

There is only a little bit of speculation, such as the
meeting between the WJC and England as it is still covered by the
Official Secrets Act of England 80 years later. There is no
speculation regarding the change of US Jews from isolation to
anti-german nor is the Balfour Declaration as it would have
otherwise come out of nowhere. England was not the kind of
country to even talk about giving up territories it controlled
for nothing.

Nor is it in question that regaining Palestine as the Jewish
homeland was the objective of the Zionist movement within
Judaism. While today one can almost be called antisemitic for
suggesting that the Zionists were anything more than a social
club, the movement and its members were praised in Israel when it
started. The promotion of Zionism is still a formal objective of
the State of Israel today. The difference that references to
Zionism are now made by reference to the Law of Return although
if you look closely you can find references to official Israeli
support of Zionism.

Far from being antisemitic, this is simply a recounting of
what in fact happened and how it was perceived in Germany. The
truth can not be antisemitic. Nor can the truth remain out of
the discussion simply because it is considered unpleasant.

The point of the digression on how German Jews were
perceived, in addition to their being the primary members of the
violent revolutionary Communist Party of Germany, to be the
proximate cause of Germany losing WW I. It was not in any manner
limited to Hitler nor was he necessary to excite the feelings.
To the people of Germany he spoke quite clearly of what was
common knowledge, the defeat of Germany in WW I could be traced
to Jews worldwide including German resident Jews.

Nor was the racial interest in the peoples of the world
invented by either Hitler or the Nazis. It was a common way to
express things early in this century. In Britain it was common
to refer to the English, Scottish and Irish races. Every country
put their own “race” on the top of the heap; the Germans were no
different.

The French considered themselves a race as did the Germans
and the Poles and the Russians. And of course each held with
their own superiority. And without hesitation all of then
considered the Jews to be a race. And although I have not come
across direct contemporary reference it is difficult to believe
that Jews did not consider their race superior to all others.
After all, their own writings refer to them as the chosen people
of god.

And for all the ‘then and now’ bluster about race, the
Jewish idea that one could be a Jew by birth mother and the
condemnation of Jews marrying non-Jews made them the closest
thing to an actual separate race in Europe at the time. If
Hitler is to be condemned for his ideas a race then one first has
to show what he held that was unique and what different ideas the
Jews held.

For example the German rules held that one jewish and one
nonjewish parent made a person half jewish. Jews held that if
the mother was the jew then the person was a full jew and if the
mother was the jew then that person was not a jew. The Nazis did
nothing regarding race that was not only common at the time but
closely supported by jewish teachings at the time and down to the
present day. (Yes, present day jews still support silly notions
of race like those used in Nazi Germany.)

Thus in the first half of this century the political
struggle in Europe directly involved jews both as communists and
as zionists. Germany had already suffered from the zionist deal
with England in the loss of the war and all of the consequences
of that loss. Further Germany faced the take over of the country
by the communists who were primarily Jews.

The actual fraction of German Jews who were involved with
zionism and/or communism is not known. However when the Nazis
opened the first camps in 1933 and up through 1939 no jew was
sent to any such camp because they were jews. If any were sent
it was because they were communists or had violated some law
usually a law regarding political activities.

Having been involved with zionism was never a crime per se
in Nazi Germany. Rather the issue was that the loyalties of the
average german jew were suspect because of the lack of that
knowledge. Nor was Germany unique in that matter.

At the time of the rise of the zionist movement it was
debated in England. To paraphrase the conclusion, should we
imagine our jewish subjects to have as their fondest wish to
leave england for another country then we should by all means
strongly encourage them to leave now for any other country. To
put it bluntly, zionists were considered to be people of
uncertain loyalty and rightly so as Germany discovered.

Into all of this came the NSDAP which held the largest
number of seats in the Reichstag when the previous government
collapsed. As the leader of the NSDAP, Hitler was offered the
opportunity to form a ruling majority government, which he did.
It was all quite constitutional and legal as when Hitler and his
NSDAP taking over the country.

Although ten years earlier a hotheaded young Hitler and his
small party did attempt to take over the government by force,
they spent their time in prison for it. In 1933 they took over
the government quite legally. That Hitler was able to do that is
a testament to a weak constitution and a citizenry new and
uncommitted to democracy.

The NSDAP did in fact grow up by violence in 1920s Germany.
Of course that appears wrong to us but again, they must be
judgedin terms of their times. Almost all political parties in
Germany in the 1920s were violent and had their enforcement arms.

Thus the Nazi Party grew up like any German political party
of the time. Other than the violent realities, it was a
collection of platform statements, planks we call them in the US.
They did not call for a dictatorship but rather for strong,
central leadership. As it is described in their platform it is
appears no more than a call for a strong central government as
the US has.

Appended to the end are the 25 points (planks) of the NSDAP
platform with comments on each of them. Although one can search
them for “evil” it is better to attempt to understand them. They
certainly explain why Germans voted for the party as there is no
clear evidence that they were voting for any extraordinary form
of evil.

The first point refers to the reunification of Germany. It
refers to the parts of Germany that were given to other countries
after WW I. It was fulfilling this point that we called examples
of German expansionism.

If you read through the rest of them you will see they
reflect the political conditions in Germany as a result of WW I
that I have discussed above. You will also note many points that
are clearly Marxist such as the abolition of unearned income,
communalization of wholesale markets, and land reform.

At the time in western Europe there were two politically
stable countries, England and France. In central Europe there
was stable Italy and unstable Germany and a handful of small
countries that barely mattered. In eastern Europe there was
dozens of small countries that in many cases held parts of
Germany and all of which were the targets of their communist
parties under the leadership of the Communist Party of the Soviet
Union, CPSU, and can not be considered stable.

Italy had maintained its stability under Mussolini by
outlawing other parties and in particular the Communist Party of
Italy, CPI. However, in Italy they did continue to work against
Mussolini which was well known, holding illegal political
meetings and the like. The Nazis prevented that by putting them
into camps. Again, that they happened to be primarily Jewish had
nothing to do with them being Jewish, only communist.

Today that sounds improper to say the least. However, at
the time, they made no secret about attempting to take over
Germany by both peaceful and violent means. Sending them to
camps was no different from rounding up members of known
terrorist organizations and sending them to camps; improper in
the US at the moment but then we have had no openly avowed
violent and widespread political party to deal with as yet.

And keep in mind that in 1942 the US sent American citizens
of Japanese descent to camps for no reason other than their being
of Japanese descent. Not that they had sympathies for Japan, not
that they planned to use violence, but for no other reason than
being of Japanese descent. One grants that may have been the
lowest point in our country’s history but it does not make the
German camps any worse.

If you have gone over the party platform you can see a mix
of reasonable planks but that several are open to abuse.
Although most are out of line with our form of democracy none of
them are particularly out of line with the circumstances in
Germany at the time. Even those unacceptable as marxist or
contrary to our Bill of Rights exist in our democratic allies and
even in the US, such as the Marxist land reform in Hawaii upheld
by the Supreme Court some years ago.

While the Nazis were working to restore both the ecomony of
Germany and territorial Germany itself, the CPSU were were
working to promote revolutions in other countries including
Germany. Germany having used camps to shut off the clearest
danger of revolution was preparing for war with the Soviet Union.
This is not a secret and both countries knew a war was coming.

In the course of reunifying Germany other European nations
protrayed this as expansion. But there was one group that
protrayed Hitler and the Nazis as evil from the moment they took
power and that is the World Jewish Congress. Hitler was
immediately referred to as a murderer even though there was no
evidence he was any more of a murderer than any of the other
political parties in Germany at the time.

It was well known that government jobs and prestigious
positions were sold all through the 1920s; either through
contributions to the parties in power for government jobs or the
hiring authorities in universities or flat out bribery to anyone
who could hire to an official position. A license in a
profession required a bribe. It was a wide open and a corrupt
system that had descended upon Germany as a result of post WW I
conditions.

No one has ever made a secret of this corruption nor that
Jews came into those jobs in the 1920s. What has not been
commonly done is to put the two events together. Jews may have
been qualified, outstandingly qualified, but they would not have
gotten the jobs without the bribes. That was a fact of German
life.

And in fact Jews did have the majority of those positions.
Therefore, facts being facts, they had not earned those positions
but had bribed their way into them. The Nazis moved to set that
situation to rights by setting racial quotas for the jobs and
eliminating bribery as a means of getting them. Yes, jews
suffered the most. But also they, as a group, had paid the most
bribes to get those jobs.

This was unacceptable to the World Jewish Congress. They
quickly called a meeting in Belgium and called for a worldwide
boycott of Germany until those who had bribed their way into
those jobs were given them back. Sort of like demanding that a
politician stay bought.

In response the Nazis organized a ONE DAY boycott of jewish
merchants in Germany. It did in fact last one day. The jewish
boycott was never lifted.

In retrospect the Jewish boycott does not appear to have
been particularly effective but it was unclear at the time just
what would happen. One of the things that may have mitigated the
effect is the nationalization of the wholesale market. German
jews did have control of a major share of that market so the
boycott lost its support on the German side.

But as to the strength of the German reaction, the year was
1933. Germany had been in dire economic straights since the end
of WW I. In 1933 it was also the depth of the worldwide
Depression. Things had gone from bad to worse and the WJC was
attempting to pile on top of that.

Personally I have met jews who continue to boycott German
products but not one of them has been aware that the boycott
started in 1933. But it is clear that the Nazis were not about
to reinstate those who had benefitted from the corruption of the
1920s to relieve the boycott. Pardon me, but no nation should
reward corruption regardless of the duress.

Later those laws were expanded to include all jews, such
being the slippery slope of the drastic solution they chose. In
hindsight of course the proper course of action should have been
to prosecute all parties to such corruption. However, such could
have been said of the solutions the US tried in the middle of the
Depression. Responses were not so much well considered but
desparate.

Official corruption was rather rare inside Nazi Germany and
was severely punished particularly when Nazis were corrupt. On
one hand it was unnecessary as one had to be a party member to
work for the government and to be a party member one had to
contribute a fraction of one’s income to the party. Thus the
party had a steady source of income directly from the public
treasury. (This is the same way the CPSU financed itself.)

Any corruption within the government would be by a party
member thus permitting two forms of punishment, civil meaning
prison and fines and party meaning loss of employment. Of course
corruption came back at the highest levels when the abuse of
absolute power started but tht is hardly more than human nature.

But clearly the confrontation that was shaping up was
expected to be between Russia and Germany. They were the only
major countries building up their arms at the time. England and
the US had drastically cut land forces and France had established
its Maginot Line to hide behind.

Countries seriously expecting war build up their military
rather than decrease it. When those two countries are facing
each other you can be certain they are expecting to fight each
other. Clearly those two countries were Russia and Germany.

The WJC was setting up Germany as the bad guy in the
confrontation solely because of Germany’s means of dealing with
german jews who had participating in over 15 years of corruption.
During this time the Zionists began promoting emmigration from
Germany, the US and Palestine being the most common destinations.
And through this time they could not get an implementation of the
Balfour Declaration.

In the process of this lack of loyalty the Germans escalated
their response and ultimately all full blooded jews and most half
jews and some quarter jews found themselves in camps just as did
Japanese Americans and for the same reason. Of course the full,
half and quarter were by genetics as the jewish rules were all or
nothing. Rather consider the earlier response of other countries
to the Zionist movement, german jews by their wanting to leave
were considered fundamentally disloyal.

The WJC, which started calling Hitler and the Nazis traitors
as early as 1933, did not cease its propaganda because of the
war, in fact it redoubled the efforts. Stories of ill treatment
in the camps were circulated but it was not until late 1943 that
stories of extermination were circulated. It is to be noted that
stories of ill treatment within the camps was never independently
verified. We have only end of war consitions that were ever
discovered.

The idea that such a thing was actually happening,
particularly in places where there were regular communication and
transfers and the like for years without such word, is difficult
to explain unless it was WJC propaganda. It is like the same
camps existed in two different realities.

On one hand the camp would have an extensive underground
that maintained contact with the outside world that did not
report such things and on the other hand that same camp could
only report extermiantions from a very few of the hundreds of
escapees.

One one hand we had camps were there were hundreds of
regular escapes without extermination reports and on the other
those same camps where a few people who can never prove having
been their with absolute horror stories.

On one hand we have all of those underground contacts with
England and suddenly from Switzerland comes reports of
extermination.

It is clear that certain stories were being advertised
outside of the common and normal channels of communication with
the people in the camps. It is a situation that can only be
explained as a propaganda effort.

Be that as it may, lets look at the post war confrontation
at the Nuremberg trials. All of the extermination claimed were
generated by the communists from the Soviet Union abetted by jews
>from there and eastern Europe whose political affiliation was not
investigated but most likely communist. The only exception to
this was the US claiming to have found a gas chamber in Germany
proper but within ten years this claim was dropped.

The claimed extermination methods were all over the map and
gassing was not even in the majority. Electrocution,
suffocation, steaming, burning alive, shooting, hammers, axes,
scythes, everything but golf clubs were indicted as the means of
mass extermination. The story was nothing like it is today.

So here we have the primarily jewish CPSU abetted by other
jews claiming their defeated political and military enemy was
exterminating jews just as the war propaganda would have it. In
fact, it was now on record that the propaganda started about
Hitler in 1933 that he was a murderer was now being made a matter
of court record.

As you can see, nothing really changed from before and after
the war but having court to parade propaganda in front of to
offer a semblance of legitimacy to the propaganda. Some may
question that a court would not accept such propaganda but this
was not the kind of court we are familiar with. Rather it was
more like a court run by the legendary Judge Roy Bean.

For example the court would not permit questioning of any of
the claims of mass steamings or electrocutions or gassings or
suffocations. That they occurred was accepted as fact without
requiring evidence of it happening or bodies or even a
reconstruction of the crime scene. There were many more
irregularities that, if they had happened in a court in any
country but the Soviet Union (of the four allies) would have
resulted in at least a mistrial if not a reversal of the
conviction, for example jailing witnesses until they told the
right story.

There is a long list of people who condemned the way the
tribunal functioned, President John F. Kennedy is among them. It
is safe to say that not one person received anything like a fair
trial.

The trials were simply an extension of the war between the jews
and the Nazis that the jews had started in 1933 and that can be
traced back to the treason of getting the US into WW I. The
communists, being primarily jews, were part of the conspiracy.

That is a serious claim and certainly needs be
substantiated. The greatest reason to be suspiscious is also the
most likely evidence for it. The Soviets permitted no
investigator from any other country to examine the camps where
the gassings, steaming, scythings and all the rest were supposed
to have occurred.

Not one investigator from the US, France or England or any
other country was allowed to examine the claimed extermination
camps. It is difficult to even think of a claim to mass
extermination that also prohibits anyone else from looking at the
evidence. Here we are with the real crime of the century and no
one is permitted to confirm and it and the Soviets decline to
offer any physical evidence of it having happened.

Until the Soviet Union opened up recently it was not
possible to go much further. Since then more information has
come to light, in particular aerial photos of these extermination
camps. They are most enlightening.

For example, the Soviets claimed in court that Treblinka had
been used to kill over a million people and then dismantled so
that not a trace was left. Recently they released aerial photos
of it from the time after it was supposed to have been
dismantled. It is still there with the same five small buildings
and no sign of an mass graves as the time it was supposed to have
been in full scale operation.

Babi Yar is another famous case of mass extermination. But
again aerial photos show no signs of any mass grave nor any sign
that the vegetation had been disturbed in the least immediately
after it was all supposed to have occured.

In other words, two of the major sites of mass extermination
that were claimed by the Soviets show no signs of any such thing.
It is clear the Soviets had no interest in presenting these
photos at the trial as they would have contradicted the stories
of the witneses.

Another example are the US photos of Birkenau which were
available but not released to the court by the US for the trials.
A summary is easy to give, they support none of the claims there
were any gas chambers there. There are four crematoria flanking
some 100 (one hundred) barracks. They are as close to the
barracks as the barracks are to each other.

The pictures were taken at the height of the supposed
gassing but they are not in operation. There is no indication of
any mass burning pits or mass graves. There is nothing that
supports any of the stories that were presented at Nuremberg.

Rather than anomolies these are the norm for the gassing
stories. They are clearly an extention of the long war of
propaganda between jews and communists on one hand and the Nazis
on the other.

And today we live in a world where this part of the story is
not permitted to be told. The long war against Germany by the
jews and communists that culminates in mass extermination exists
as gospels without physical evidence and differs in no way from
the anti-Hitler, anti-Nazi propaganda that started in 1933 when
they were first called murderers.

The entire objective of the exercise was the creation of
Israel by the Zionist movement within judaism. If we go back to
the beginning and the US had stayed out of WW I we can at least
say that in 1920 the world would have looked like it did in 1915.
Other than that it would have been a much different future.

As Paul Harvey would say, now you know the rest of the
story.

* * * * *

Thus we see a thread of the political machinations of this
time period that connects Zionism, through the Balfour
Declaration, German persecution of Communists and then Jews,
through the war crimes trials and finally to the State of Israel.
Again, it is a minor thread.

It is expected Britain could have gotten the US into the war
without their help. It is clear Britain did not think the
Zionist help all that significant as the Balfour Declaration did
not go further than a piece of paper until after the next war.
But it is clear that if the Communists of the Soviet Union had
not portrayed their fellow jews as the ultimate victims Britain
would never have followed through with the creation of Israel.

===============

The Party Platform of the National Socialist German
Workers Party

( []s contain the comments of the author of this article.)

—–

Hamburg Order Police and 1933 Deutschland Erwache

The Twenty-Five Points Of The National Socialist German
Workers’ Party, 1920

The program of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party is
limited as to period. The leaders have no intention, once the
aims announced in it have been achieved, of setting up fresh
ones, merely in order to increase the discontent of the masses
artificially, and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.

[Would that all political parties had such an objective.]

1) We demand the union of all Germans to form a Greater Germany
on the basis of the right of self-determination enjoyed by
nations.

[The return of the parts of Germany given to other countries
such as Poland. Note that it was in defense of that give away
the England declared war on Germany.]

2) We demand equality of rights for the German people in its
dealings with other nations, and abolition of the peace treaties
of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

[This is a just objective regardless of the means of
abolition.]

3) We demand land and territory (colonies) for the nourishment of
our people and for settling our excess population.

[The major powers had colonies. Germany had African
colonies prior to the war. It was the norm at the time.]

4) None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state.
None but those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be
members of the nation. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the
nation.

[Here we get to the racial basis for citizenship. It was
perhaps somewhat extreme for the times but not remarkably so in
comparison to other countries. For example, Hitler remained a
soldier for ten years as he, an Austrian, could not gain German
citizenship until after those ten years of residency.]

5) Anyone who is not a citizen of the state may live in Germany
only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign
laws.

[This is why Hitler lived in German Army barracks for those
ten years. It was not something all that new.]

6) The right of voting on the leadership and legislation is to be
enjoyed by the state alone. We demand therefore that all official
appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the
country, or in the smaller localities, shall be granted to
citizens of the state alone. We oppose the corrupting custom of
Parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party
considerations, and without reference to character or capacity.

[The first item is generally the rule in every country
today, citizenship is a requirement of government employment. The
last sentence is again something that all political parties
should consider as an objective.]

7) We demand that the state shall make it its first duty to
promote the industry and livelihood of citizens of the state. If
it is not possible to nourish the entire population of the state,
foreign nationals (non-citizens of the state) must be excluded
>from the Reich.

[Which of course is perfectly reasonable, that the state
exists for its citizens rather than for non-citizens.

8) All non-German immigration must be prevented….

[Nothing onerous here, simply a matter of national
immigration policy which is the right of every country.]

9) All citizens of the state shall be equal as regards rights and
duties.

[Perfectly normal.]

10) It must be the first duty of each citizen of the state to
work with his mind or with his body. The activities of the
individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but
must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the
general good.

[A fine statement of principle but it is open to abuse in
that it puts the government in arbitrary control over individual
actions and obviously it is the only basis upon which a
dictatorship can legally exist.]

WE DEMAND THEREFORE:

11) Abolition of incomes not earned by work.

[A clearly communist plank as it prevents income from rents
and investments.]

12) In view of the enormous sacrifice of life and property
demanded of a nation by every war, personal enrichment because of
a war must regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand
therefore ruthless confiscation of all war gains.

[War profiteering is a crime in every country. In this case
it was extended to cover the post war investments with foreign
currency during post war hyperinflationary times. In other
words, the purchases were retroactively abolished. It is a coin
toss as to whether this is reasonable but it is certainly open to
abuse.]

13) We demand nationalization of all businesses (trusts)….

[Another Marxist concept.]

14) We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be
shared.

[Again, a Marxist idea, giving the government control of all
import and export business.]

15) We demand extensive development of provision for old age.

[Ah, yes, social securtiy. Their system was the model for
the US system down to the means of paying for it and the
retriement age. Just how evil were these folks?]

16) We demand creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class,
immediate communalization of wholesale business premises, and
their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that extreme
consideration shall be shown to all small purveyors to the state,
district authorities, and smaller localities.

[While giving the government control of the wholesale
business, it promotes the small businessman. As Hitler noted he
considered himself a practical implementer of marxism. It would
appear he realized that control of ten of thousands of small
businesses would be too hard. The US exempts small businesses
>from it regulations also. Rather enlighted that.]

17) We demand land reform suitable to our national
requirements….

[Clearly Marxist.]

18) We demand ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are
injurious to the common interest. Sordid criminals against the
nation, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished by death,
whatever their creed or race.

[This sounds a touch similar to the FDR’s National Recovery
Act although the punishment was not so extreme.]

19) We demand that the Roman Law, which serves the materialistic
world order, shall be replaced by a legal system for all Germany.

[Revamping the legal system was long overdue.]

20) With the aim of opening to every capable and industrious
German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining
advancement, the state must consider a thorough reconstruction of
our national system of education….

[Universal higher education. Nothing very insidious there.]

21) The state must see to raising the standard of health in the
nation by protecting mothers and infants, prohibiting child
labor, increasing bodily efficiency by obligatory gymnastics and
sports laid down by law, and by extensive support of clubs
engaged in the bodily development of the young.

[Although the gynamstics appear a bit arcane, the rest could
be right from Hillary Cliton.]

22) We demand abolition of a paid army and formation of a
national army.

[That sounds like the Founding Fathers of the US and their
abhorrance of standing armies. They got the abhorance from
England.]

23) We demand legal warfare against conscious political lying and
its dissemination in the press. In order to facilitate creation
of a German national press. In order to facilitate creation of a
German national press we demand:

a) that all editors of newspapers and their assistants, employing
the German language, must be members of the nation;

b) that special permission from the state shall be necessary
before non-German newspapers may appears. These are not
necessarily printed in the German language;

c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participation
financially in or influencing German newspapers….

It must be forbidden to publish papers which do not conduce to
the national welfare. We demand legal prosecution of all
tendencies in art and literature of a kind likely to disintegrate
our life as a nation, and the suppression of institutions which
militate against the requirements above-mentioned.

[Of course this lead to government censorship of the news.
But prohibiting foreign ownership … Rupert Murdoch had to
become a US citizen in order to grow his broadcasting empire. It
is unclear what might be wrong with the principle.]

24) We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the
state, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate
against the moral feelings of the German race. The Party, as
such, stand for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself
in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats
the Jewish-materialist spirit within us and without us….

[So here we have the first clear statement that is against
jews in some manner. However, even today Germany collects taxes
to support the Lutheran Church, something that would have been
prohibited by the general policy of supporting any particular
religion.]

25) That all foregoing may be realized we demand the creation of
a strong central power of the state.

[And of course the worst of all, the basis for a
dictatorship. On the other hand, the Weimar Republic was so weak
as to ineffective that the call for strong has to be compared to
what existed at the time.]

Unquestioned authority of the politically centralized Parliament
over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of
chambers for classes and occupations for the purpose of carrying
out the general laws promulgated by the Reich in the various
states of the confederation.

[Note that in comparison to the Weimar Republic, this can be
construed as being no more than a call for a strong Federal
government as in the US even though it did go much further than
that.]

The leaders of the Party swear to go straight forward – if
necessary to sacrifice their lives – in securing fulfillment of
the foregoing points.

[Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors.]

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 00:09:17 PDT 1996
Article: 67868 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Get a look at this idiot
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:23:46 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Dear Sirs:

As a result of this complaint, netcom.com informed
me that Mr. Giwer had been informed that any further e-mail
to me would constitute a violation of his agreement and his
service would be terminated.

http://www.nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Home

This e-mail has, at the direction of netcom.com,
been forwarded to Mr. Giwer so that he is aware of its
contents.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to
send me e-mail or contact me directly at this address:

Yale F. Edeiken
918 N. Bayard Street
Allentown PA 18104

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

–Yale F. Edeiken
<---- Begin Attached File ---->

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=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 00:09:18 PDT 1996
Article: 67871 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) – fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:30:01 GMT
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:46:43 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>So, the story goes like this:

>1) A document is presented, in which a Nazi official mentions
> a “gassing cellar” in Krema II (in which the gas chamber
> was indeed underground).

Gassification cellar, whatever that is, from a word construction unknown in the
German language prior to the IMT. Beyond that, it was a secret code word in an
unclassifed document like “new world order” for the conspiracy believing
paranoids.

>2) Giwer claims that the correct word that should have been
> used to describe a gas chamber in the Kremas would be
> “gaskammer”.

>3) Another document is presented, which mentions a “gaskammer”
> in Krema V.

But, if you would ever take the time to examine the real aerial photos you will
find there are no buildings connected to the Krema V that could be it and it had
not cellar. And you know that. Should I post it again?

>4) Giwer, after – yet again – making a joke out of himself,
> goes crazy.

Obviously you are ignorant of the subject you are trying to discuss.

> —
>In Message-ID: <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer
>suggested that documents about a “gas chamber” and “gassing cellar”
>in the Birkenau crematoriums didn’t count, as they were really due
>to “a morbid sense of humor” of the SS men who authored the documents.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 00:09:19 PDT 1996
Article: 67873 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) – fndaerab.jpg (1/1)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:30:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <518[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:40:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It was the open ocean, lying, traitorous murderer.

>How does this relate to the fact that the messages sent
>to the ship, ordering it to leave, were lost?

That does not mitigate or exlain the jewish murderers.

>You’re calling me a “lying, traitorous murderer”?

Only because you are.

>Because I have a different opinion on a certain historical
>event then yours?

Because you repeat jewish lies.

>You’re a crazy, old, senile bum who can’t even find a job.

>Poor old Matt, Unemployed since he was 46-years-old.

>He seems to think it’s my fault.

I did not make you a traitorous jew scum unworthy of US citizenship.

But you probably have dual citizenship with Israel so that you have no loyalty
to the US.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 07:45:50 PDT 1996
Article: 67968 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: YFE and a fair trial.
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:31:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Holohugging attorneys would have you believe this is a part of a fair trial.

FROM YOUR IMT:

DR SEIDL: When the witness was heard here I had no opportunity to
cross-examine him, and for that reason ….

PRESIDENT: Why did you have no opportunity to cross examine him?

[….]

Just like in any regular trial.

Source: IMT, VIII, p. 521

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 08:20:06 PDT 1996
Article: 44302 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:46:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 113
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:06:08 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> What you think is not under discussion. That is what happened.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

Gas Chamber Myths

In 1945 the Associated Press news agency reported: (note 34)

Five decades after the camp’s liberation, British army Captain Robert
Daniell recalled seeing
“the gas chambers” there. (note 35)

Such gas chamber tales are entirely fanciful. As early as 1960,
historian Martin Broszat had
publicly repudiated the Belsen gassing story. These days no reputable
scholar supports it. (note
38)

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 08:20:07 PDT 1996
Article: 44325 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:44:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:07:14 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Yes, you should be embarrassed by your deliberat mis-statements
>of what I have
>> said. When do you get around to graduating?

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

Gas Chamber Myths

In 1945 the Associated Press news agency reported: (note 34)

Five decades after the camp’s liberation, British army Captain Robert
Daniell recalled seeing
“the gas chambers” there. (note 35)

Such gas chamber tales are entirely fanciful. As early as 1960,
historian Martin Broszat had
publicly repudiated the Belsen gassing story. These days no reputable
scholar supports it. (note
38)

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 08:20:07 PDT 1996
Article: 44352 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: An Apology to Matt Giwer
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:25:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 126
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50h86u$h4j@news1.ucsd.edu> <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:02:43 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Do you really think you can cover your deep seated jewish hatred
>of America with
>> a statement like that?
>>
>> Jew scum.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
cc: [email protected]
Received: from relay.interserv.com ([165.121.1.67])
by mtigwc01.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 )
with SMTP id AAA15191; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:58:25 +0000
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Matthew Giwer ([email protected])
X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17
X-Spry-Attachment: GIWER.TXT
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Content-Type: Text/Plain

Dear Sirs:

As a result of this complaint, netcom.com informed
me that Mr. Giwer had been informed that any further e-mail
to me would constitute a violation of his agreement and his
service would be terminated.

http://www.nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

Home

This e-mail has, at the direction of netcom.com,
been forwarded to Mr. Giwer so that he is aware of its
contents.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to
send me e-mail or contact me directly at this address:

Yale F. Edeiken
918 N. Bayard Street
Allentown PA 18104

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

–Yale F. Edeiken
<---- Begin Attached File ---->

Attachment Converted: D:\VALET\EUDORA\ATTACH\GIWER.TXT
<---- End Attached File ---->

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:04 PDT 1996
Article: 68015 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:12:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c[email protected]> <51htk7[email protected]> <323d5867.9821[email protected]> <323ea19[email protected]> <51maun[email protected]> <323ff[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Sep 1996 20:36:32 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> That point is that yid-speak has been so used by the eastern european
> ^^^
> For someone who claims not to be an antisemite, you are inordinately
>fond of the word “yid”.

I have no idea who started the rumor that I have ever made any such statement.
Probably someone who lies to protect israeli murderers.

> Do you make a habit of referring, say, to Germans as “krauts” or
>French as “frogs”?

I have nothing against it. Do you have a problem with Brits and Yanks? Did you
ever hear that song, “never let a dago by?”

Nice hot button you have there. I will remember ot push it regularly.

>>types that they have control of it. Just as the Germanic people did when the
>>eastern europeans adopted and modified German into what is considered yiddish.

> Yiddish is indeed related to German, but it derived from a type of
>German spoken several centuries ago. (There are also Hebrew influences, of
>course.)

When it might have been derived is hardly at issue as standard written and
spoken German only evolved as WW II.

>> Of course this can also go backward to pointing out that whatever
>>happened in WW II was no more than a brawl between Germanic peoples.

> Why do you get so excited about this “brawl” as you call it?

What do you mean by excited? I find it most interesting that so many people
have such an emotional attachment to a particular version of events that differs
so greatly from the actual investigation of events.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:05 PDT 1996
Article: 68021 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:13:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ps9a$3[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:24:46 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>I have seen photos of prisoners in 1945 who look relatively well fed at
>> both Dachau and Buchenwald.

>And this surprises you? Do you imagine that every single inmate was
>transported to Dachau in 1933 and suffered there until the end of the
>war. I recently learned that the father of an acquaintance of mine was
>transported to Belsen along with a group of Italian soldiers in the
>last two weeks of its existence. He, and the Italians, came out of
>Belsen relatively unscathed and relatively healthy despite the
>horrific condition there.

>It is a common denier error to suppose that the conditons that
>prevailed at any given time must always have prevailed. This is
>another way of putting things into context.

It appears you are saying that the end war conditions in the camps were not
unusual but were the conditions that existed from the moment the camps were
open. Do I have that correct or would you like to correct that impression?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:06 PDT 1996
Article: 68026 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:36:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 215
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <51siia$bhf@news.enter.net> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:07:17 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> It matters not that what I say is acceptable to holohuggers.
>>
>> The fact that matters is that what I say is dominant.

>Giwer, you are an impotent little twit.

>Further, as has been pointed out to you in the past, you are little more
>than an admitted troll:

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll
>who resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general
>prevarication in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you,
>little man, are completely devoid of anything resembling decency,
>morality, and integrity.

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at

>[incoherent .sig deleted]
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

came from witnesses. Severina Shmaglerskaya who had spent three
years in Auschwitz told of seeing women sent to work within
minutes of giving birth, of babies taken away, of children driven
to gas chambers. No defense counsel wanted to cross-examine her.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

=====

Samuel Rajzman, had been taken from the Warsaw Ghetto to
Treblinka. He survived because he could speak Hebrew, French,
Russian, Polish and German; he was needed to act as an
interpreter. He described the arrival at Treblinka station. It
looked like a station. There were signs saying ‘restaurant,’
‘ticket office.’ There was even an arrivals and departures board
but all departing trains left Treblinka empty. For on the
platform prisoners were stripped, women were shaved so that their
hair could be used for mattresses.

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Rajzman believed they killed between 10,000 and 12,000 people
every day at Treblinka. There were plans to increase the number
of ovens from ten to tenty-five to keep up with the output of the
gas chambers.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

=====

He had seen the arrival at the station of his mother, his sister
and two brothers. Friends, sorting the piles of clothes on the
platform, found a photograph of his wife and child. ‘That is all
I have left of my family. Only a photograph,’ he said. None of
the defense counsel wanted to cross-examine Samuel Rajzman
either.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

It is amazing the documents the Soviets could produce. Or
perhaps we should add to the Nazi physics the Nazi biology that
cancer is an infectuous disease. Or rather we should certainly
learn how they did it as we can only do it these days with rats
specially bred to be susceptable to cancer.

This is certainly very important to cancer research.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

But how could the court refuse to accept in evidence the
statement which Jacob Vernik, a Warsaw carpenter, had given his
government? It described the year he had spent at Treblinka. The
judges knew all too much by now about camps like Treblinka. But
Vernik said that writing his statement had given him the only
reason to continue his life. ‘Awake or asleep I see the terrible
visions of thousands of people calling for help, begging for life
and mercy. I have lost all my family, I have myself led them to
death. I have myself built the death chambers in which they were
murdered. I am afraid of everything. I fear that everything I
have seen is written on my face. An old and broken life is a very
heavy burden, but I must carry on and live to tell the world what
German crimes and barbarism I saw.’

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

=====

At the end of a morning session, where the massacre of the
Jews at Vilna was described and Severina Shmaglerskaya gave her
evidence, Doenitz’s counsel Dr. Kranzbuehler asked him ‘Didn’t
anybody know anything about any of these things?’ Doenitz shook
his head and shrugged his shoulders sadly. Goering turned round.
‘Of course not … The higher you stand the less you see of what
is going on below.’ They all ate their lunches in silence that
day.<59>”

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:07 PDT 1996
Article: 68037 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: quite surprising
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:46:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:53:31 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Quite surprising that no one has mentioned that in the 1920s the only way
>> to get a secure job was through bribery.

>Not suprising you twit, because it has absolutely no bearing on
>the FACT (as opposed to delusion, something with which you seem
>intimately familiar) that your impotent posterboy for hate, Hitler,
>and his Nazi throng, systematically set out to exterminate more
>than 6 million people, including Jews, Homosexuals, politicial
>prisoners (some of whom were imprisoned for taking it upon themselves
>to speak freely, I suppose), Gypsies, and any other Œundesireable¹ who
>didn¹t fit with the beady eyed, flatulent little troll (still taking
>about Hitler, not you) and his bland idea of Utopia.

>But then, as has been pointed out to you in the past, you are little more
>than an admitted troll:

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

This is certainly very important to cancer research.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68052 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer admits again that he is a troll….
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:23:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ued6$g4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Sep 1996 03:24:26 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) admits his crimes:

>> What I admit to doing is setting off the holohuggers so that they do
>nothing
>> productive regarding the subject so they have minimal time to interfere with
>> discussions of what really happened.
>
>> They leave so many hot buttons hanging out with “push me” signs that
>it is
>> difficult not to.

>> And they have so little self discipline that they fall for it every time.

> Is this, then, your expanation of why you criminally harrassed me with
>your obscene e-mail? You opinion is that the vivtims of your crimes should not be
>upset?

> Thank you for the admission of your mens rea.

Rather would you like to explain why you are spreading such malicious stories
about me?

Would you like to explain why you are sending false and malicious email to my
ISP?

Would you like to explain why you only object when I reply to email you send to
me out of no where and for no cause?

You are going over the edge on this one. You must be taking your lead from AG.
But the last I heard attorneys were held to a higher standard than mere mortals.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68055 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Impressions of the evidence and the reality
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:14:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 303
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Impressions of the evidence and the reality

Matt Giwer

Those who support the holocaust work hard to leave the
impression that they have investigated every aspect of it in
detail. They often say that it is the most documented event in
history.

They are lying. The facts are otherwise.

Why are those things left out these days? The writers will
not tell us. In the absense of a reason, I will suggest a
reason, there is no physical evidence for those other methods.

However as a mitigating factor for Germany, the problem with
body lice became worse the further east they went. In east
central Europe body lice was endemic. And so was the typhus the
lice carried.

But if we eliminate the code words and demand a conspiracy
be proven first rather than assumed all the supposed physical
evidence vanishes. And when that is gone we are left with
testimony.

Although at first testimony appears powerful it has to be
pointed out that it is testimony that claimed all of the above
forms of mass exterimation were used but are now ignored by
holocaust writers.

And of course the primary feature of the testimony are the
confessions of nazis to having gassed (and steamed and
electrocuted and shot and clubbed and scythed etc.) people.

The question regarding gassing and regarding consorting with
the devil are identical questions. They are questions about
human nature. They are not evidence for either gassing or
witchcraft.

As with witchcraft we have many confessions to the absurd,
the improbable and the impossible.

=====

[1] See “The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of
the Twentieth Century” by Matt Giwer

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:09 PDT 1996
Article: 68058 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BATF Hit Squad — Tee Hee
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:45:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 330
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50q[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32[email protected]> <517q1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:317482 alt.revisionism:68058

On 19 Sep 96 15:35:58, [email protected] (Nosy) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> When did I deny that people could see the faces of the pilots from inside closed
>< trucks and that they could hear their maniacal laughter over the airplane >< engines? When did I deny that a man could be gassed six times and live to tell >< about it? When did I deny that Nazi doctors infected people with cancer? When >< did I deny that millions were executed by steaming and electrocution and >< suffocation? > Is Giwer denying the fact that the NSDAP, through various
> means, chose deliberately to kill as many Jewish people
> as possible or not?

That is not the allegation. The allegation is that 12 million people were
killed of which some 5 million were jewish. So far there of been no physical
evidence of even the 12 million much less the 5 million.

Thus no case has been established to deny. But please feel free to make the
case. You will be the first.

> Is Giwer denying that concentration camps in which so-called
> “untermenschen” such as Jewish people, Senta people, Romany
> people, Poles, Russians, Beyelorussians, Communists, trade
> union members and many others were systematically worked
> to death, gassed to death, shot to death, beaten to death
> and murdered by many other means, or not?

If you will present your physical evidence for you claims I will go over it all
one more time. After all, if you “believe” it then you were convinced by
physical evidence. So you must know what that compelling physical evidence is.

>< It appears you are suffering from a belief that the facts are what current >< writers are saying rather than the sworn testimony at the trials. Which are the >< facts that you want to believe? And why do you choose to believe people who >< were never in the camps over those who were eyewitnesses to the steaming and >< assembly line electrocutions and such? > Is Giwer denying that a systematic attempt to kill as many
> Jewish people, Senta people, Romany people, Slavic people, and
> many other on the “untermensch” list as possible was made by
> the Nazi regime, or not?

Post the physical evidence that convinced you of what you are claiming happened.

>< >< The choice of target was influenced by the likes of that lying scum, >< >< Morris Dees. (When will he spend some time identifying members of >< >< known terrorist groups such as the JDL? Never. He is on the side of >< >< those terrorists.) >< > The JDL does not exist any more, as Giwer should know.

>< Sort of a surprise to them. > Cite, then, to prove the Jewish Defense League exists, please?

http://www.jdl.org/

Can you do it yourself from there?

>< > Be that as it may, Giwer is not welcome in this discussion.

>< I was unaware an invitation was needed. > People who parrot anti-Semitic or other bigoted propaganda
> are not welcome.

Would you care to site any that you might ascribe to me?

>< >< Dees and his SPLC are interested in getting rid of Christian >< >< organizations. >< > Here we see Giwer stepping off into the Twilight Zone.

>< > While Morris Dees has a rather poor record (he DEFENDED
>< > the BATF after “nigger hunting licenses” were discovered)
>< > there’s no evidence to support Giwer’s conspiracy theory,
>< > and every reason to question strongly Giwer’s claims,
>< > given his nonsensical denial of the facts of the Holocaust.

>< bent of the people he attacks and they are uniformly christian of some >< fundamentalist bent or other. > Cite, please?

I pay attention to Dees when he spreads his lies in interviews and talking head
shows. But then you appear serious deficient in your knowledge of current
events. Perhaps you could learn to do a web search?

“Militias pose rising threat to United
States”

_Militias pose rising threat to United States_ (Reuter Information
Service)

MIAMI (Apr 11, 1996 6:24 p.m. EDT) – The threat of terrorism from anti-
government “Patriot” groups in the United States has increased sharply
in the past year and paramilitary units are preparing for war, the
Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report released on Thursday.

The 72-page report, prepared by the center’s Militia Task Force,
identified more than 800 Patriot organizations including 441 so-called
militia groups and said they have a new strategy for underground terror
cells that will wage war with the support of a broad, extreme-right
coalition.

It said the movement, which includes white supremacist groups and
armed state militias, poses a “clear and present danger” and called on
the U.S. Justice Department to create a joint federal-state task force on
domestic terrorism.

“People like the Oklahoma City bombers are not alone. They will fail to
achieve their goal of overthrowing the federal government but in the
process they will do much harm,” said the center, a non-profit
organization that monitors hate groups, promotes tolerance and defends
civil rights in courts.

The report, “False Patriots: The Threat of Antigovernment Extremists,”
resulted from two years of investigation and intelligence gathering, task
force director Joe Roy said.

The center said Patriot groups are well-financed, have access to
explosives, biochemical agents and military-style assault rifles and
follow a strategy of leaderless resistance by forming secret cells and
training for terrorism.

No one knows how big the movement is but its members likely number
in the millions, Roy said. The Militia Task Force identified armed militias
in all 50 states.

“The vast majority of that movement is not that much of a threat. It’s the
10 percent underbelly that poses the threat,” Roy said. “People who will
go out and do things like derail trains, blow up buildings.”

Many involved in the Patriot movement believe Americans are being
systematically oppressed by an “illegal, totalitarian government intent on
disarming its citizens and creating a ‘One World’ government,” the center
said.

The report said many adherents — like the Montana Freemen currently
involved in a lengthy standoff with federal authorities — subscribe to
“bizarre Christian Identity beliefs” in which whites are “true Israelites,”
blacks are “subhuman” and Jews are “children of Satan.”

The report profiled more than 100 prominent members of the Patriot
movement including William Pierce, head of the National Alliance, said
to be the fastest growing neo-Nazi organisation in the country.

The Patriot press is filled with “wild tales of government conspiracies”
such as ” … the government is using black helicopters to spy on its
citizens … and implanting electronic monitoring devices in newborn
babies,” it said.

Patriot groups have no unified leadership but are linked “like no rebel
force has ever been” by the Internet and by fax, sharing tips on avoiding
tax laws and fighting government regulations. They arm themselves at
gun shows and learn how to build bombs through mail-order manuals,
the report said.

It noted that seven months after the Oklahoma City federal building
bombing, which killed 168 people, anti-government extremists were
caught making a bomb intended to blow up the Montgomery,
Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center, headquarters of the
Militia Task Force.

May 8, 1996

Mr. Morris Dees
Chair, Executive Committee
The Southern Poverty Law Center
400 Washington Avenue
P.O. Box 548
Montgomery, AL 36101-0548

re: MILITIA TASK FORCE

Dear Mr. Dees:

I have, until recently, been a
contributing member to SPLC for
several years, and until recently, I have been proud of that association. Even
when
the center received adverse publicity due to the overwhelming success of its
financial strategy, I continued to support it. The Center’s programs for
Teaching
Tolerance and pursuing justice for those whose civil rights were violated have
made
a lasting and positive impression on American society. Unfortunately, the SPLC’s
new focus is detracting from our solid reputation, and if it does not change
soon, I
fear that the damage to an excellent organization will be permanent.

As the impact of the SPLC lawsuits against bigotry and racially-motivated
violations
of constitutional protections were felt, their efficacy was proven by the waning
severity of the violations that were pursued in the courts. As this occurred,
the
Southern Poverty Law Center was faced with a choice: it had to widen or shift
its
focus. The question was, “how?”

In the past, the Lawsuits by SPLC
have been taken up on behalf of the
weak in order to secure
compensation and/ or some
measure of justice against a
somewhat stronger entity, whether
that entity was a well-financed racist
fringe group, or a local government.
With the overwhelming success of
this strategy, new frontiers had to be
opened. There are many out there
whose civil rights are being ravaged
by the strongest entity of all – the
United States Government – not for
racial reasons, but for political reasons. I personally have three friends* who
are
currently fighting for their lives, and who have been through horrors inflicted
on them
by their own government, our government, the likes of which most people don’t
even
believe can happen in this country. There are literally thousands like them, and
these
people are in severe need of assistance.

But rather than seek justice for those so abused, the Center has chosen to
exploit
sensationalist journalism, to which the SPLC itself has contributed heavily,
inducing
largely irrational fears to fight against the so-called “Patriot Movement” and
its
related “Militias”. In the SPLC campaign, this heterogeneous group is painted
with
broad strokes in threatening ways which are very unfair to the great majority of
those
in the movement.

Abuses
of power
by the
federal
government
like
those
mentioned
above
have
given
rise to
the
Patriot
Movement
and the
Militias.
These
are
understandable reactions from a very concerned population. If we in the SPLC are
truly concerned with the threat presented by these groups, we should be looking
for
ways to constructively address their legitimate concerns, rather that seek to
blindly
discredit and destroy the entire movement.

There is no room for violence in the Patriot Movement. Violence always results
in
more power being granted to the federal government in the interest of “security”
and
at the expense of constitutional law – the exact opposite of what the Patriots
seek.
But any counter-establishment movement which addresses problems the magnitude
of which are addressed by the Patriots is bound to attract some fringe elements,
whose motives and means are dangerous and counter-productive. (In fact, the
deliberate infiltration of such agent provocateurs by the federal government has
been a common occurrence in its dealings with rebellious organizations for many
years.) But instead of “throwing out the baby with the bath water,” the decent
and
truly patriotic core of the Patriot Movement should be integrated into the
Center’s
constituency, rather than marginalized and alienated from it.

In the SPLC’s latest mailing, there is a picture of some militia men in
fatigues,
taking target practice with rifles in the desert. Their eyes are blacked out,
and on the
other side, we are informed that this is for “security reasons.” I would submit
that the
real reason for this move is because the defamatory nature of the Center’s
accompanying description of Patriots and the militias would make a picture
without
such alterations ripe for a libel lawsuit. If that is true, it should tell us
something: that
the agenda being pursued here is not entirely correct.

About a year ago, I sent to you a copy of Defrauding America, by Rodney Stich,
and
I asked that you consider taking up Rod’s legal case, as his civil rights were
and are
clearly being violated. I received a reply from the center indicating that the
case was
outside of the SPLC’s current mission. It is unfortunate that in its evolution,
the
SPLC has chosen to become closer to Mr. Stich’s persecutors than to him. I
sincerely hope that this is a reversible trend. If not, I fear that a once-great
organization will have lost its ideals in a quest for cash, and will be forever
lost to the
people it once served.

Sincerely,

David H. Stern, M.D.
Member, Leadership Council
Southern Poverty Law Center

DHS/dhs

cc: *Rodney Stich, Lester K. Coleman, and Michael Williams

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68065 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:25:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 56.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Sep 1996 20:41:38 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
>>People Matt wants to execute (so far):

>>1. Robert McNamara

> He was secretary for defence, wasn’t he? Does that mean that Mattie-poo
>will have the Secret Service asking him questions about his opinion of
>McNamara?

My opinions about him have been public since he published his last book. BTW:
That is a “was.” He is not covered by that law. But consider the SS most
likley agrees with me.

>>2. Everybody who was a member of the Israeli Defense Force in 1967

> He’s an ambitious little troll! He’ll probably want to execute all
>Mossad members too!

They are murderers. Would you prefer nuking Tel Aviv instead? Why should
Israel get away with murder?

>>3. Danny Keren
>>4. Joel Rosenberg

> If this is for making a fool of Giwer, then Matt will have to execute
>himself first of all!

Unfortunately I have said no such thing. I can see no crime they have committed
that justifies the death penalty.

>>5. Any Jew who supports Israel

> How many???

>>6. Anybody who thinks he’s an antisemite

> I certainly think Matt’s an anti-Semite. I’d better watch out for
>bloodthirsty trolls!

>>See why people think you’re a nut, Matt?

> That’s just the start of it! There’s these kooky conspiracies he
>believes in…

And you think there was no conspiracy over the Gulf of Tonkin? You really do
need to follow the news more carefully.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68069 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:30:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32414854.[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Sep 1996 14:25:42 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Please first evidence that anyone hates any victims.

>Matt, could we have a verb in the main clause, there? Thanks.

Put it in context.

>: I know that you assume “hated” status but that does no make
>: it true. So you have to estabilsh such hatred and can not assume it.
>:
>: So just how can you think you can get away with claiming
>: that a true statement about jews is a hatred of jews.

>Does this count, Matt?

>”You have to be a Jew.

> No one else would be so low.”

>-Matt Giwer

Not in context.

Got anything better than that?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:03:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68071 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:32:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32414854.[email protected]> <51tij5$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 13:23:55 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:19:16 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB” > wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >>>Indeed, all Nizkor ever talks about is Holocaust, Holocaust, Holocaust…> aren’t there any other Holocausts worth defending than this one?
>> >Ask yourself THIS question instead–which other acts of genocide are
>> >attacked by those who hate the victims?
>>
>> Please first evidence that anyone hates any victims.
>>
>Man-ohman, Matt! It’s only Friday MORNING — get off the sauce! You
>uswed to wait until Friday night to let loose. It’s getting worse. Get
>help! I beg you!

Stop begging. There is no pride in living on your knees although it may help
pay your bills.

Perpetual victims are not to be hated. They are simply as silly as the people
who live on their knees.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:19:36 PDT 1996
Article: 44364 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: McVay’s bullshit and double standards
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:38:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 219
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51qr94$89[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:03:28 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Careful or they might fix it. It is the best resource for
>revisionists that has
>> ever been assembled and it is becoming more so every day. My best material
>> comes right from Nizkor.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

This is certainly very important to cancer research.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:08:09 PDT 1996
Article: 68077 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bacon, Diogenes, Homer, Voltaire – enemies of Holocaust tyranny
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:48:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32415e43.532[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:59:06 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>Let’s take a couple of examples.

>In another thread (The SS-Guilty as Charged?), the person posting as
>”rblackmore” has produced a collection of quotes from documents
>purporting to show that the SS was concerned to keep their prisoners
>alive and healthy. The first such quoted document (without the source,
>I might add) speaks of the dangers of transporting sick inmates from
>Buchenwald to Dachau. In the first instance, one is tempted simply to
>say, “So what?” Neither Buchenwald nor Dachau was ever an
>extermination camp.

Very good. Now why are so many holohuggers insisting that Dachau has a gas
chamber with enough bodies that, after months of decomposition, there was enough
material left for non-existant autopseys to be performed and yield positive
results?

>But why, one might ask, would the administrators of labour camps want
>to transport sick prisoners from one camp to another? Wouldn’t the
>rigors of travel jeopardize them even further? Well, Dachau had a
>relationship with another installation, known among Dachau inmates as
>the “Dachau sanitorium,” the T4 euthanasia installation at Hartheim
>Castle near Linz just a few miles down the road from Dachau. The 95%
>of prisoners expected *not* to recover from their illnesses, as
>mentioned in rblackmore’s document, were transported to Hartheim where
>they were simply put to death. The activities of the euthanasia
>centres are somewhat better documented than those of the death camps.
>Documents covering the transport of sick prisoners from Dachau to
>Hartheim are quoted in Kogon’s book _Nazi Mass Murder: a Documentary
>History of the Use of Poison Gas_.

Which of course is interesting in that the sick and injured were transported
>from A-B to Belsen although it was at the option of the sick and injured. (Elie
Wiesel as one example if you have would prefer not to remember.)

Those silly Nazis. They would do anything to make sense of any post war story.
But how did they know what to do?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:58:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68088 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:24:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ps9a$3[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:24:46 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> It is true that the mortality rate was quite high,
>>which caused both Gluecks and Himmler to address the issue. Perhaps Konrad
>>Morgen should have begun his investigations much earlier. From the documents
>>you can see that these issues were addressed and an attempt was made in good
>>fatih to remedy the deplorable situation. The situation in Germany after the end
>>of the war was exacerbated by the continuous bombing by the Allies, who later
>>did indeed make propaganda out of the conditions which their policies helped to
>>exacerbate.

>What!? The remedies adressed by your documents refer to conditions in
>1941 (Buchenwald) and 1943 Auschwitz respectively. Had Germany been
>bombed into ruins by January 1943? Please explain how “continuous
>bombing” caused these camps to fall into such deplorable conditions.

What pictures from those camps in those years are you referring to? In other
words, what is the basis for your implication of poor conditions? If typhus is
your answer be certain to demonstrate there was no typhus outside of the camps.

>Your denier pal J-F Beaulieu likes to cite a document that shows that
>some 40,000 Auschwitz inmates died of typhus in 1942 by which he means
>to provide a rationale for the crematory overcapacity. This begs the
>question, though, that if conditions were so deplorable, why did the
>SS continue to transport people to these sites.

There was typhus in the army, typhus in the cities, what does typhus have to do
with anything? Of course if they had had more delousing buildings and chambers
and more ZB perhaps some of it could have been avoided but … you know how
unsanitary those eastern europeans were.

>For that matter, you might want to explain why you think it was such a
>good idea that these people were in camps at all.

The point of course is that it was no worse than the Japanese Americans in
camps. The cause of both was a failure of people to arm themselves and resist
the government. Perpetual victims do not inspire respect.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:58:13 PDT 1996
Article: 68090 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:52:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:09:23 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality
>and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of
>Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.

>Source: SS records, quoted in “Concentration Camp Dachau”,
>ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60.

>Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths
>——————————————————————–
>Albanian 2 – 2 – –

Only a holohugger can go from deaths to murders.
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:58:14 PDT 1996
Article: 68094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:54:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 03:51:31 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality
>>and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of
>>Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.
>>
>>Source: SS records, quoted in “Concentration Camp Dachau”,
>>ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60.
>>
>>Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths
>>——————————————————————–

>>Polish 1780 78 4 830 868

> I wonder if Mr.Keren has anything else to offer here. Does he
>have a reason why so many Polish priests would have been killed. So he
>won’t waste anytime on anything else, we can take note that 900 of
>them went free.

Obviously he is trying to say that the polish priests were secretly rabbis.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:58:15 PDT 1996
Article: 68101 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:46:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 17:33:48 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:
>> > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

>> > Sure. First you give them water.
>
>> The water with the corpses floating in it?

> Gee, first you take the corpses out.

And here an example of the lack of education of folks in pre-law. You heard it
here folks all you have to do to make water polluted to rotting corpes is remove
the corpses and it is as pure as French designer water.

And this is some of the best grasp of reality that is current among holohuggers.

Can anyone believe the complete ignorance of this holohugger?

>> > The water was available.
>
>> The only water available was in the river, which Kramer thought was polluted.
>> There indeed was not enough water in the camp to supply the thousands of ill
>people
>> jammed in there, which was not Kramer’s fault.

> The British restored water in hours. Kramer could not do it days.

You mean the British who connected the water station to one of their portable
generators?

>> > Second you give them food.Food was available. Kramer did not do this.

>> No. Most of these peole were ill with gastro-enteritis. Food aggravates this
>> condition. Also, the food was NOT available for these great numbers.
>

> The British managed to do it within hours.

We have been over that. Even a holohugger posted it. The Brits lost 40,000 to
disease in the first week of liberation.

>> > Medical help was available. Kramer did not do this.
>
>> Not true, The attempt was made. Even the British had problems saving lives,
>> and they were better epuipped than kramer by a long shot.

> No attempt was made. Kramer did not take even the most basic public
>health precautions.

You mean like keeping rotting corpses out of the river? Of course that does not
address all of the normal raw sewage in it. Or do you think the German EPA had
imposed sewage treatment plants on the country?

>> > Fourth you tell the sadisitc gang of thugs you command to stop killing
>> > people. Kramer did not do this.
>
>> Where is the order that he told them to kill people? Also, some of these guards
>were
>> not under his direct command, having been sent there during the last few
>weeks of the
>> war.

> That is not the question. He was in command of the camp. He made
>no effort to stop what the men under his command were doing. They were killing
>inmates even as the liberators entered the camp.

To bad the “liberators” (who were there by negotiation of the camp’s early
surrender at Kramer’s instigation) did not report any such thing. Beyond that,
nice try.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:58:15 PDT 1996
Article: 68103 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Consider the holohugger
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:09:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Tales told ’round the campfire or at the family hearth are fertile
ground not only for exaggeration but also become comingled with childhood
learning experiences such as “don’t put your hand in the fire.” In youth such
stories become intrinsic to the personality.

It is tales of danger that are the last to go. Consider how little it
takes to stop believing in Santa Claus but how much it takes to lose fear of the
dark, being alone, monsters and demons.

Consider for the poor holohuggers it is like growing up in the dark ages.
As children they are taught to fear witches but as they grow up the stories
continue rather than diminish. As they grow up they do not learn about Bram
Stocker and Bela Legosi but rather continue to hear that the stories are true.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 15:49:05 PDT 1996
Article: 68106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topf and Sons, all round geniuses
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:42:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Sep 1996 03:07:53 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: I have to agree on that one. I was raised Roman Catholic and
>: for nearly 15 years I believed that christians were persecuted by the
>: romans before I realized it was all bullshit.

>Oh, I can’t wait to hear the explanation for this one.

>Come on, Matt–spill. All those speeches before the Senate, all those
>imperial orders to supress the “atheist” Christians–more JOO forgeries,
>right?

All what speeches and orders? There were some four or five orders over four
centuries. The “crime” was bringing bad times on the local jurisdiction or even
the empire for refusal to sacrifice to the patron dieties. Those orders lasted
for the duration of whatever set back was being suffered.

And since the reason the Christians had for not sacrificing was a variant form
of the superstition they had no moral superiority in their position.

They were not the only group blamed for things going wrong. If an area had too
many followers of the wrong god they could be invited to leave. The most common
penalties for anyone targetted was banishment and confiscation. That was also
the most common penalty applied to Christians.

Christians to the lions and the creative forms of execution are almost
completely fictional. Roman had legally established forms of execution for
specific crimes and they are rarely what was in the martyr stories.

Christians to the lions comes from giving the condemned a chance to fight in the
games. The wholesale throwing them in is the stuff of legends.

On the other hand, you believe anything you are told. You might look into
Gibbons on the subject.

>: On similar bullshit the “persecuted” Adam Smith is honored in
>: death even though he lead an armed revolution in Navoo and died because
>: it failed. The fanatic whackos retreated to Utah as the fanatic whacko
>: jews retreated to Palestine.

>Hoo, boy! You heard it here first, folks–Adam Smith chucked his
>dusty old economics books, head for the open plains, and founded
>the Mormon religion. It’s a little known fact–even more astounding
>because he was forty years dead when he did it.

If you’ve seen one Smith, you’ve seen them all.

>This has been another episode of “You Were There,” with you host
>Matt Giwer. Matt, are you ever embarassed when you sober up and
>see what you’ve typed?

I could paraphrase Churchill but then you know you will still be stupid.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 15:49:06 PDT 1996
Article: 68113 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Church of Latter Day Moron
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:53:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 107
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <3243a2bb.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:68113 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:561

On 21 Sep 1996 10:39:50 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

> “I can and will come in under another name
> that is not killfiled. You folks have
> proven yourselves so freaking dumb that I
> can do anything I want to show what idiots
> you are.” (Matt Giwer, June 13, 1996)

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (John Morris) wrote:

>[troll spittle deleted]

> “Think nothing of it. We serve aim to help pleasing methods
> only dimly lit in various ways.”

>I see your “Think nothing of it,” and giwer you this:

> “Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish
> reputation for integrity by saying only Jew and thus
> implying that we is observant?”

>If you are foolish enough to respond him will giwer you one
>Adam Smith, founder of Church Latter Day Moron.

>You have been wormed (but you knew that).

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>To eliminate Mr. Giwer’s vulgarity from your daily newsreading, add the line

> /mgiwer@/f=j

>to your universal KILL file. If you do not enjoy the luxury of
>such a filter, simply delete Mr. Giwer’s articles unread.

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
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Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996 and 19
August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still worked. It
was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just prior to a 256 copy
mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false information. The owner of
gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e.
Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 17:16:44 PDT 1996
Article: 68121 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 14:59:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Sep 1996 07:38:49 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> # I have seen photos of prisoners in 1945 who look relatively
>> # well fed at both Dachau and Buchenwald..
>>
>> No, they look *dead*, not *fed*.

>Thousands did indeed die, and thousands survived.
>>
>> A little “revisionism” there, nazi-boy?

>Ah, resorting to the tactics of the desperate. How would you like
>it if I called you “Jew-boy”? I know you would like it Danny, because
>then you would not have to worry about replying to my posts. You could
>simply call me “anti-Semite”, which has the same connotation as “Abracadabra”
>and hope I will go away. Sorry to disappoint you, for I am not an anti-Semite, but
>you’ll keep looking……

In fact I did call him jew-boy but only after he started calling me nazi-boy.
His sanctimony was righteous and still is when gets around to his bi-weekly
mention of it. He sounds so innocent when he tells his half of the story.

>> Look at the photos in
>>
>> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/
>>
>> buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
>> who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
>> of Buchenwald.
>>
>> Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:
>>
>> buchenwald01.jpg
>> buchenwald02.jpg
>> buchenwald03.jpg
>>
>> See also
>>
>> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/Belsen/images/
>>
>> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/Nordhausen/images/

>Dan, I have seen them all. Yet these images of the dead and dying
>were the only ones distributed to the world, while the healthier appearing
>inmates were ignored. We have all seen these images and I have
>already posted my opinion about it. By the way, the camps which
>were reopened by the Poles and Soviets who interred innocent
>Germans were no better than Belsen. Two wrongs are still two
>wrongs. Also, as proven by the following : On page 95 of
>”The Belsen Trial” one of the British Interrogators who liberated
>Belsen was asked: “Was any effort made to obtain people who would
>speak in defence of the accused?” -“No……”
>And that about sums it up.

>A few final comments: When the camp was liberated, the British found
>13,000 corpses and approximately 40,000 living inmates, of which 17,000
>were ill from a variety of causes. Fortunately, most of the people who were
>liberated survived, and most of them left rapidly after the camp’s liberation.
>Also, you neglect to state the following on page 32: “There was a small
>compound of children who were in fairly good condition, and obviously the
>women had sacrificed themselves to look after them.” This, at least, is
>something good to report in spite of the horrors throughout the rest of the
>camp. This is a good example of what I refer to as both sides of this issue
>refusing to budge an inch. The children should NEVER have been there
>in the first place, but at least they were in relatively good condition when the
>camp was liberated, and THAT is something to be thankful for.

But even there, there is a third side to the story. Civilians and cities were
fair game for allied bombing. The camps were not. Given the choice of leaving
the children with relatives or taking them with …

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 17:16:44 PDT 1996
Article: 68128 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:57:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32436631.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 13:56:05 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>> I wonder if Mr.Keren has anything else to offer here. Does he
>>have a reason why so many Polish priests would have been killed. So he
>>won’t waste anytime on anything else, we can take note that 900 of
>>them went free.

>Why were they killed?

Where does it say they were killed? The table reads deaths. Keren is the one
who used the word murder without justification. That’s the only way he can
conceive of such things.

>I believe the reason that the Nazis gave is that
>tey were in leadership positions. Another thing about priests, Mr.
>Moran, is that they were a part of the educated and intelligencia.
>This was another group of Poles that the Nazi thought of as
>expendable.

Is your imagination the best you can do? If you have nothing to add, don’t make
it up. You can not read the mind of the dead to come up with motivation.

>For those who are interested, Mr. Keren posted the data below.

>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality
>>>and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of
>>>Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.
>>>
>>>Source: SS records, quoted in “Concentration Camp Dachau”,
>>>ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60.
>>>
>>>Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths
>>>——————————————————————–
>>>Albanian 2 – 2 – –
>>>Belgian 46 1 3 33 9
>>>Danish 5 5 – – –
>>>German 447 208 100 45 94
>>>English 2 – 1 1 –
>>>French 156 5 4 137 10
>>>Greek 2 – – 2 –
>>>Dutch 63 10 – 36 17
>>>Italian 28 – 1 26 1
>>>Lithuanian 3 – – 3 –
>>>Luxemburg 16 2 – 8 6
>>>Norwegian 1 1 – – –
>>>Polish 1780 78 4 830 868
>>>Rumanian 1 – – 1 –
>>>Jugoslavian 50 2 6 38 4
>>>Spanish 1 – – 1 –
>>>Swiss 2 1 – – 1
>>>Czechoslovakian 109 1 10 74 24
>>>Hungarian 3 – – 3 –
>>>Stateless 3 – 1 2 –
>>>
>>>
>>>Roman Catholic 2579
>>>Protestant 109
>>>Greek Orthodox 22
>>>Old Catholic and Maronite 8
>>>Mohammedan 2
>>

>Mike Curtis E-mail [email protected]

>For More Information try The Nizkor Project
>Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>Over 100Megs of data: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?
>Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction – permanently!)

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 17:27:21 PDT 1996
Article: 68131 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Yom Kippur
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:18:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

If any people ever had a need for such a day …
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 18:12:45 PDT 1996
Article: 68134 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:59:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 06:21:47 -0700, Brian Harmon wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> It is clear to me that Kramer was doing everything he could to make the best out of
>> a bad situation.

>I disagree. For one, he was once the Kommandant of Birkenau (not all of auschwitz),
>which was where the gas chambers were housed. I find it unlikely that the person
>in charge of extermination facilities would care for his inmates.

The world is still awaiting physical evidence for that claim other than
discovering insecticide traces.

>Additionally, there is the fact that so many did indeed starve at Belsen, despite
>the stores of food available nearby and a bakery in the Wehrmacht barracks
>capable of producing some 60,000 loaves of bread a day.

Would not that bakery require some 60,000 pounds of flour a day to do so?

And can you answer the question as to whether or not Kramer had the military
strength to take that food from the Wehrmacht? Please be specific in the
relative military strengths of Belsen and the Wehrmacht. We can go into the
motivation to take it later.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 18:12:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news2.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suddenly there is physical evidence
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:53:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Sep 1996 16:53:48 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> After it was clearly and forcefully pointed out there is no physical
>>evidence of gassing and after the response regarding conflicting witness
>>reports about Dresden were discounted we found two other responses.

> “We?” Does Mr. Giwer have a multiple personality disorder?

>
>> One is the claim that it exists only one CD and can only be presented by
>>mail and can not be posted in public on alt.revisionism. The person
>>making this claim is not only clearly lying he has admitted to membership
>>in an organization of Jewish murderers very like the IDF. Who would
>>believe a murderer?

> I think a better question is: who would believe Matt Giwer when he
>makes assertions without documentation, given that he is a confessed liar?

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>> The other claim has become more common, to simply assert that it exists
>>but refuse to post it. This is being done despite the full and complete
>>knowledge that there are exactly three questionable documents that would
>>constitute physical evidence.

> There are more than three, and Mr. Giwer (as usual) gives no reason to
>question them other than Because! I! Say! So!

>>The lack of physical evidence is clearly a very, very sore point for the
>>holohuggers.

> Lack of honesty is clearly a very, very glaring trait of Mr. Giwer.

>>And of course the holohuggers will continue to refuse to post it while
>>doing all of the above.

> Mr. Giwer, of course, constantly refuses to post evidence for his
>assertions. He says, “look it up” – even though DejaNews searches cannot
>find any article matching his claims.
>–
>Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 19:20:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68151 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Baron: liar and hatemonger
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:36:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <8431310[email protected]> <51s82[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 20 Sep 96 22:27:25 GMT, [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
wrote:

>> One of the parts that Alex skipped:

>”Alex” didn’t skip anything; “Alex” posted what he was sent.
>>
>> | The supreme tragedy of the ADL report is there is a resurgent
>> | anti-Semitism across the land emanating from sources as wide-ranging as
>> | the Ku Klux Klan, former Farrakhan lieutenant Kahlid Abdul Muhammad (who
>> | called New York city “Jew York City”), David Duke, and some opponents of
>> | the Israeli lobby. But an inaccurate, biased, and politically motivated
>> | report like the recent ADL offering undermines efforts to combat
>> | anti-Semitism. By crying wolf, the ADL endangers its credibility at a
>> | time of rising bigotry and a period of extraordinary delicacy in the
>> | Middle East peace process.

>A Black Moslem calls New York Jew York and that is “anti-Semitism”? Where
>exactly is all this bigotry? Where are the pogroms? Where are the Jews being
>dragged screaming from their houses and thrown onto bonfires? Where are the
>Jim Crow laws and Uncle Toms (Uncle Moses)? The simple fact is that these people
>are like a bunch of whining schoolchildren: “Johnny called me a kike, stop him
>before he turns me into a lampshade.”

At least it is environmentally conscious to recycle.

I don’t know what it is like in England but you have properly stated what it is
like in the US.

But wait, there’s worse. Let these people get to talking on the air and you
never know when they are going to start waxing rhapsodic over Judaism and how
wonderful it is to be a Jew. Right out of nowhere at times but usually with
some sort of setup by the interviewer.

But if you even think about linking judaism to something negative and it is
denounced as anti-semitic. Even speaking the truth is labeled anti-semitic as
Marlon Brando discovered.

=====

“Do you realize I am Jewish?”

“Oh? Medals, down the hall, second door on the left.”

“Don’t you realize I am a victim. You can’t do that to me.”

“As you will. Gassing, down the hall, third door on the left.”

“Look! Look, everybody! I’m being hated. Come see the anti-semite!”

=====

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 68164 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviet Def Comedy Jam
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:57:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On 22 Sep 1996 15:44:49 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>>
>> > If you read any good book on the IMT, it seems that the Judges relied
>> > more on documentation in their verdicts. Also because the
>> > documentation had to read into the record, this limited the amount of
>> > documents the Americans could enter. The American wished to bury the
>> > defense in documents. But they failed to translate these documents
>> > into the various languages. So the judges ordered that these be read
>> > by doing so caused them to be translated by ther IBM system in use by
>> > the court. Neat, huh? When you post these excerpts without comment we
>> > must shrug. We have no idea as to the affect/effect or content of
>> > these testimonies. Appears to be a bubblering Giwer methodology.
>>
>> I have found two books on Nuremberg stand head and shoulders
>> above the rest Conot’s “Justice at Nuremberg” and Taylor’s “The Anatomy of
>> the Nuremberg Trials.”
>>
>> –YFE
>>
>>>>>
>Why don’t you just comment on the quotes? A little bit embarrassing?

He must have missed them.

>Without getting too deeply into this, here are a few direct quotes from
Soviet “witnesses” and prosecutors detailing German “atrocities”:

“The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron plate was
then lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he
was being measured for height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which
shot out suddenly and poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the
head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in the
corner of the room…..The bodies of prisoners thus murdered were burned in
four mobile crematories transported in trailers and attached to motor
cars.” Page 377 IMT Vol. VII

“It is noted in the official report that the commission examined material:
tools used for the torture of Soviet prisoners of war, a leather thong and
dagger, picked up among the disarmed bodies, with the well-known Hitlerite
slogan “Bood and Honor” (“Blut und Ehre”). The circumstances in which the
dagger was discovered give every possibility of understanding what was
meant by German “honor” and for whose blood the dagger was intended”
Ibid. P.387.

“….the Germans discovered a girl in military uniform, who resisted the
fascists, crying, “Shoot, you vipers, I die for the Soviet people and for
Stalin, but you, you monsters, will die a dog’s death.” This girl patriot
was shot on the spot.”
Ibid. P.388.

“N.N. Dashkova, a woman from the village of Adjimushkaisk, testified:
(Evidently veofre a Soviet Commission)

“I myself saw the Germans, who had caught about 900 Red Army soldiers in
the quarry, first ill-treat and then shoot them. The fascists used gas
(sic!).
Ibid. P.388.

And finally,

“The commandant of the Yanov Camp, Obersturmfuehrer Willhaus,
systematically shot with an automatic rifle from the balcony of his office
room the prisoners employed in the workshops, partly for sheer love of
sport and partly to amuse his wife and daughters. He would then hand his
rifle to his wife and she too had a shot at the prisoners. Sometimes, to
please his 9 year-old daughter, he had children between the ages of 2 and 4
tossed in the air and then took pot shots at them, while his daughter
applauded and shreiked “Papa, do it again!; do it again, Papa!” And he did
it again.” (!!!)

The internees of this camp were exterminated for no reason at all, often as
the result of a bet. A woman witness, Kirschner, informed the
Investigating Commission that a Gestapo Commissar, Wepke, bet the other
camp executioners that he could cut a boy in half with one stroke of the
axe. They did not believe him. So he caught a 10 year old boy on the
road, made him kneel down, told him to hide his face in the folded palm of
his hands, made one test stroke, placed the child’s head in a more
convenient position and with one single stroke cut the boy in half. The
Hitlerites heartily congratulated Wepke, shaking him by the hand.”
Ibid. P. 451.

I couldn’t improve on the above even if I wanted to.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:51 PDT 1996
Article: 68167 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topf and Sons, all round geniuses
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:51:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:24:27 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> How dumb holohuggers can be when they really work hard at it.
>>
>> I do admit to having missed their fool assumption for a long time. Now that I
>>realize it, I am amazed they were so dumb as to have made the assumption.
>>
>> I also admit it is going to be hard to find a way to phrase it that matches the
>>assumptions of all of them.
>>
>> Basically they are assuming that Topf and Sons, makers of crematoria, were also,
>>without any prior experience designing buildings. They really confuse ovens
>>with the buildings that house them.

>Your impenetrable ignorance is showing again.

>The Krema II and III buildings were built by the Huta Company.

>The Krema IV and V buildings were built by Riedel.

>Topf built the furnaces and ventilation systems for Kremas II and III
>and contracted out part of the furnace fabrication for IV and V to
>Kluge.

>Koehler erected the smokestacks.

>Vedag waterproofed the gas chambers.

>Three companies–Kontinentale Wasserwerks-Gesellschaft, Falck, and
>Triton–installed the drainage system.

>Segnitz manufactured roofing materials which were installed by
>Industrie-Bau-A.G.

>And AEG did the electrical work for the furnace fans and the
>ventilation systems.

>The only fool assumptions are your assumptions; the only confusion is
>your confusion.

>Read a book sometime and learn something.

I was unaware that it was your considered opinion that no one designed the
buildings and the gas chambers. You do great research.

You will note that I did refer to design, not construction. Want to take
another shot at it?

>> But wait! There’s more!

>Oh? How can there be more if there was nothing to start out with?
>Unless, like the Doremouse, you believe that some is more than none.

>> They were also designing rooms within buildings as mass extermination gas
>>chambers even though no one in the entire world knew how to design such a thing.

>Never afraid to really run with an ignorant assumption, are you?

Are you willing to post the designer next time?

>> But wait! There’s more!
>
>> They worked! The FIRST TIME!

>The *first* time? What a drip! If you’re going to falsify history, at
>least learn what it is you intend to falsify.

>The SS had some practise at this even before Auschwitz-Birkenau became
>an extermination camp. Like at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec and Kulmhof
>(Chelmno). Like at Block 11 Auschwitz main camp. Like in the Birkenau
>”bunkers.”

Sorry but steaming was used at Treblinka and the other three used engine
exhaust. You should know that.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 68168 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:16:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:35:19 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

>[About the dead inmates in Buchenwald and the other camps]

># You will never let us forget about those corpses…

>Sorry ’bout that, nazi-boy. I know you folks would like
>everyone to forget.

What was the cause of death and their reason for being there in the first place?
Do not forget which non-religion, non-race they identified with.

># “One poster-Chuck.

>No.

Yes, it was the Chuckle Fairy itself. The man who single handedly won WW II.

># He did not even know that Ilse Koch’s husband was executed by
># the SS after being relieved of his command.

>Totally irrelevant.

That the Chuckle Fairy didn’t know it?

># Actually, I have indeed read that the item in question WAS from a
># South American museum. Giwer is correct here. By the way, I
># posted the source earlier.

>You posted a *claim*. It simply does not count. Tell us which
>”South American museum”, and prove to us it was indeed taken from
>there.

># I would LOVE to find out, except they only seem to exist in these
># ridiculous photos and in your imagination.

>Odd, nazi-boy, really odd. First, you say they existed but were
>taken from a museum. Now, you say they don’t exist. BTW, why are
>the photos “ridiculous”?

And you are the one that claimed that pictures of bodies that had no signs of
fire damage was proof that they had been burned to death.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68173 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:00:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:03:01 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:

># Maybe Mr.Keren would like to say how the
># numbers on this list were killed?

>Are you suggesting that, if no mass gassing took place
>in this camp, it was impossible to kill these people?

>How many people do you claim Stalin’s regime killed,
>without using gas chambers?

>You’re *really* an odd person, zeyde.

How did you get from a tabulation of deaths to murder?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68175 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:40:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 17:58:01 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> No. You prove to us that this head was shrunken at Buchenwald. Prove
>> who did it, how they did it, and prove the identity of the victim. Also prove
>> that it is indeed a real shrunken human head, and then arrange to conduct
>> DNA testing to determine the age and approximate time when the victim
>> was killed. Then get back to us.
>
>> First prove the above, then we’ll continue the discussion.

> And the continuation of the discussion will be:

> 1. A demand for the birth certificates of all the lawyers and the
>judges.

> 2. The record of certification of the court reporter.

> 3. The architectural plans of the court-room.

> 4. Weather reports for the years 1945-50 in Silesia.

> 5. Pictures of the judge’s secretary, both clothed and in the nude.

> 6. The serial numbers of the weapons carried by the guards in the
>courtroom.

> 7. The dental records of the victim and proof that he had a smallpox
>vaccination.

> 8. Proof that there was a nazi party in Germany.

> Then, of course, he will claim he has a “reasonable suspicion.”

On the other hand you would have the world believe that this woman knew how to
make a shrunken head. Are people married to Nazis born with that knowledge or
is it something that comes to them after they commit themselves to lives of pure
evil? You know, like learning to laugh like Ming the Merciless and Bela Legosi.

So mister lawyer, they must have covered head shrinking in law school. How is
it done? What do you do? Wash it in water instead of drycleaning it?

And why did she put the exhibit numbers of the museum on them?

> Another Giwer.

He tries.

On the other hand you believe she actually had the technology of head shrinking
and added the museum numbers just to confuse the suspicious.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 68178 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer lies again (why does he bother?) – was Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:53:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:40:39 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:40:37 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
>> >Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:
>> >The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.
>>
>> And one more time you post links to pictures of people that show not the least
>> sign of fire or burning.

>I’m not sure – were you playing with yourself when you accessed these
>pictures and had a look at them ?

>Thekla1.jpg very clearly shows two bodies that have been burned.

>Thekla2.jpg shows at least three, possibly four (i can’t determine if the
>mass in the background is one body or two) which has been burned.

>Thekla3.jpg shows, just as clearly as the first two pictures, three bodies
>which have been subjected to fire.

>So, what ? Did you think that you could lie because you’re on a new ISP ?
>You’re still a troll. You’re still an impotent little twit who lies, not
>to prove anything, but merely for the sake of lying.

>But then, as has been pointed out to you in the past, you are little more
>than an admitted troll:

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at

>[Giwer rant deleted]

>[inchoherent Giwer .sig deleted]

>[posted to alt.revisionism]
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT

“MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a check at
each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back … When
the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room. As
soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air could be
breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the
bodies. By means of a special procedure… they were burned in the open air
without the use of fuel.”

IMT XX – p. 494.

More Nazi physics at work.

I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:41:19 PDT 1996
Article: 44421 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:43:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 133
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:05:28 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> There is a poorly written and tedious novel entitled “Poland”
>written by James
>> A. Michener. It is perhaps his worst not for stylistic reasons but
>rather that
>> it has no to much of anything in the english speaking world.
>>
>> But if you do not mind reading fiction you will find that Poland
>has been a
>> never-never land since its formation. For over a thousand years its
>boundaries
>> moved ever 50 years or so.
>>
>> After WW I Poland’s boundaries moved (both east and west
>boundaries) moved about
>> 100 miles west.
>>
>> In any sense that we look at national boundaries today, In an
>accounting sense,
>> Poland was never more than a fake account where the small amounts of
>debits and
>> credits that could not be reconciled are dumped.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

Gas Chamber Myths

In 1945 the Associated Press news agency reported: (note 34)

Five decades after the camp’s liberation, British army Captain Robert
Daniell recalled seeing
“the gas chambers” there. (note 35)

Such gas chamber tales are entirely fanciful. As early as 1960,
historian Martin Broszat had
publicly repudiated the Belsen gassing story. These days no reputable
scholar supports it. (note
38)

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68186 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Revisionists’ Support Freedom Of Speech? That’s a Joke.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51s8sb[email protected]> <324333[email protected]> <523s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:46:22 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> Such a misidentification was and is impossible. It is no different from
>> >> shooting a bull and claiming to have thought it was a coyote. They are that
>> >> different.
>>
>> >Indeed. Like US Air Force pilots shooting down US UH-60 Blackhawks, used
>> >only by the US and a few Allies. Obviously can’t happen because the only
>> >people flying Blackhawks aren’t the one you are going to shoot at and it
>> >is impossible to confuse a Blackhawk, carrying US insignia, with any other
>> >helicopter in the world.
>>
>> As you know, that happened on radar without visual sighting. You also know that
>> the Israeli pilots made several visual passes and identified the US flag before
>> initiating the attack.

>Do you have film of this? Any physical evidence this occurred? Or is it
>only “eyewitness” testimoney?

It is what was reported at the time of the attack. It exists as recordings
including IDF acknowledging it was an attack on a US ship. And yes, there is
are the physical remnants of a shot up and burnt US flag.

There is also the damaged hull with clear US markings.

How much more do you need? Remember, you are dealing agianst the Israeli lies
on the subject.

If you are referring to the radar based attack, there are the tapes of the
radar, the voice tapes of the decisions and the orders.

But IF you are going to hold that such testimony is invalid in ALL cases THEN
there is absolutely nothing support your gassing fantasies.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:34 PDT 1996
Article: 68187 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary “Gerhard” Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 01:04:59 GMT, [email protected] (Martin Paegert)
wrote:

>Ole Kreiberg ([email protected]) wrote:

>> On the other hand Hitler did not regard Frenchmen, Danes, Poles etc as
>> Germans, because they simply are not Germans.

>By Nazi ideology not just the German race (there is none, by the way), but
>the Aryan race is the superior one. Danes as all other people of nordic
>origin were regarded as Aryan brethren. Same does hold for French people
>to a certain extent (ye more North ye Aryan). And even in Poland they did
>search for Aryans within the polish people. Thus they did take away
>children from mothers if their racial experts did state that this child is
>of Aryan origin. And they did force polish women to join “Lebensborn”,
>which was intended breed the future Aryan race and to overcome the impurity
>of Germany in terms of being Aryan.

If there is any truth in what you say, why is none of it mentioned in the NSDAP
party platform? Why is it that none of this crap shows up in the official
literature or speeches?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68188 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary “Gerhard” Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:20 GMT
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:54:10 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> Ole Kreiberg ([email protected]) wrote:
>> > Only Germans can be genuine nazis.

>Really? I’ll bet George Lincoln Rockwell would have disagreed with that
>statement.

It is interesting that you would cite him as an authority on any subject.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68194 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers reveal themselves
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:29:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:09:36 -0700, Marty Kelley wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> The holohuggers have, to a critter, sided with the murderous Israelis, against
>> the Americans they murdered.
>>
>> Now we know what traitors they really are.
>>
>> If there was ever any doubt, we know where their loyalties lie.
>>
>> Their loyalties lie with the murdering jews in Isreal.

>I recognize the folly of attempting to engage in a rational discussion
>with you, Mr. Giwer, but I’ll try anyway:

>In what way is it disloyal or traitorous to consider the Israeli attack on
>the _Liberty_ a tragic mistake (on a par with the U.S. downing of the
>Iranian Airbus)?

It is disloyal and traitorous because the Israeli attack was clearly deliberate.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:36 PDT 1996
Article: 68202 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topf and Sons, all round geniuses
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:43:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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So many people appear to have missed the original, it bears reposting.

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 01:09:24 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

> How dumb holohuggers can be when they really work hard at it.

> I do admit to having missed their fool assumption for a long time. Now that I
>realize it, I am amazed they were so dumb as to have made the assumption.

> I also admit it is going to be hard to find a way to phrase it that matches the
>assumptions of all of them.

> Basically they are assuming that Topf and Sons, makers of crematoria, were also,
>without any prior experience designing buildings. They really confuse ovens
>with the buildings that house them.

> But wait! There’s more!

> They were also designing rooms within buildings as mass extermination gas
>chambers even though no one in the entire world knew how to design such a thing.

> But wait! There’s more!
>
> They worked! The FIRST TIME!

> This is really very, very amazing, that holohuggers have been making this
>assumption from the moment they heard about Topf.

> He we have your friendly, neighborhood oven makers suddenly being archetects and
>gas chamber experts.

> Why?

> As I noted just a couple days ago, because crematoria and gas chambers are
>inextricably linked in the closed minds of the holohuggers.

>=====

>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>Like no business I know.
>Everything about it is appealing,
>Everything that traffic will allow.
>No where can you get that happy feeling
>Than when you’re stealing

>There’s no business like Shoah business
>It’s like no business I know
>Everything about it is misleading
>Everything about it seems a fraud
>Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
>For more donations to their cause

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68203 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK IT’S NAME
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 21 Sep 1996 11:39:30 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) writes:
>> <*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>> <+[Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME] [18 Sep 96 23:46][*][0]*>
>>
>> r> Mr. McFee, you really are stretching it here. There is no
>> r> evidence, as I have already pointed out, to indicate that
>> r> Streicher’s rag was more influential than the public incitements
>> r> of Ehrenburg, for reasons already pointed out.
>>
>> Thank you for verifying how influential Streicher’s rag was.
>>
>> As bad as that?!? Who’d a thunk it!
>>
>> ++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you – Bozo or Clarabelle?
>> —
>> |Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>> |Internet: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>>>>
>What are you gibbering about?

You spend a lot of time expecting a rational response out of AG and the Chuckle
Fairy. I agree it is fun when you have nothing better to do.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68204 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zen Buddha SAYS
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:37:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 20 Sep 1996 06:22:32 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Allan Matthews) writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> >Zen Buddha says: If you are seeking for the truth, look for a lie…and
>> >that’s why revisionists are here: we are seeking the truth.
>>
>>

>>>>>
> P.S. As for the deniers – as a famous Zen Master once said, “Open your mouth
>> already a big mistake.”

> You forgot to add what else the Zen Master said:
>”Learn from the mistakes of the “eyewitness survivor testimonies”.

Holohuggers have done that. They have swept under the rug all of the incredible
parts of the testimony and leaving the superficially plausible.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68205 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <523l51$no[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 22 Sep 1996 18:14:50 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 21 Sep 1996 20:36:32 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >> That point is that yid-speak has been so used by the eastern european
>> > ^^^
>> > For someone who claims not to be an antisemite, you are inordinately
>> >fond of the word “yid”.
>>
>> I have no idea who started the rumor that I have ever made any such
>statement.
>> Probably someone who lies to protect israeli murderers.

> Liar. You have stated that calling you an anti-Semite is “libel.” In fact
>you called it a “blood libel.”

And attorney even …

It can only be libel if untrue. This is not Canada, sheepskin-for-brains.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68206 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c[email protected]> <51htk7[email protected]> <323d5867.9821[email protected]> <323ea19[email protected]> <51maun[email protected]> <323ff[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Sep 1996 03:41:21 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 22 Sep 1996 17:14:25 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>:
>: > So are you an anti-Semite?
>:
>: I have never made a statement on the subject. Is that too hard
>: for you to understand? Yet the holohuggers here will spread the lie
>: that I have.
>: Plain facts. I have made no statement and they have lied about it.

>Matt, if you are an antisemite, then how could calling you one be a
>”blood libel”?

It can only be libel if untrue. Is that too hard for you to understand?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 23:07:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68210 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviet Def Comedy Jam
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:55:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:59:55 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>If you read any good book on the IMT, it seems that the Judges relied
>more on documentation in their verdicts. Also because the
>documentation had to read into the record, this limited the amount of
>documents the Americans could enter. The American wished to bury the
>defense in documents. But they failed to translate these documents
>into the various languages. So the judges ordered that these be read
>by doing so caused them to be translated by ther IBM system in use by
>the court. Neat, huh? When you post these excerpts without comment we
>must shrug. We have no idea as to the affect/effect or content of
>these testimonies. Appears to be a bubblering Giwer methodology.

Reading things into the record does not negate the sworn testimony, such as that
Nazis could burn bodies without fuel. But then you prefer to believe in their
IBM system. Wish to describe it?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT

“MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a check at
each one so that the people believed that they would get their things back …
When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room.
As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air could be
breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the
bodies. By means of a special procedure… they were burned in the open air
without the use of fuel.”

IMT XX – p. 494.

More Nazi physics at work.

I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68214 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:23:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <3[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 22 Sep 1996 04:37:38 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:

>> The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
>> “eyewitness” accounts of what they saw.

>Completely untrue. But you have been told this before.

You folks appear to believe that if you keep saying it that the three ambiguous
documents and the traces of insecticide will become more than they are.

On the other hand, I have seen hundreds of pictures and films of UFOs. Anyone
with a web browser can find hundreds of such pictures.

> Score so far: History 1
> Moran: zero

>
>> The Holocaust story is supported by survivor testimony.

> Which are consistent with the physical and documentary evidence
>and the tetimony of the killers.

All three dubious documents and insecticide residues and the testimony of nazis
who confessed as did people confess to witchcraft.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68216 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:27:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:31:54 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> For anyone who wants to check out what the Holocaust story has as
>evidence for this camp being an extermination facility check out
>Nizkor. (Nizkor > ftp > treblinka)
> Notice how they deny the evidence is not founded on “eyewitness”
>testimony and then notice how most of their evidence is testimony and
>quotes from books.
> Notice “treblinka 02.” where it is quoted from the “Old Frogs
>Almanac” – “When the Russians took over the Treblinka conmplex and the
>nearly dead survivors … there was no lack of physical evidence”.
>Notice under other clickables where it is said “The suffocated bodies
>in recently arrived cattle cars …” were there also.
> Yet the Holocaust story also has it that the camp was constructed
>one year (1941-2), 2,000,000 people were exterminated the next years
>(1942-3) and the next year it was plowed over and turned into a tree
>farm (1943-4), and yetaccording to the above account, when the
>Russians arrived a year after all this, it was still there, in full
>bloom.
> This exemplifies the typical nature of Holocaust evidence.

The problem with revisionists is that they can not believe contradictory things
at the same time. Until they can master that skill they can never be
holohuggers.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68228 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:41:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 21 Sep 1996 12:09 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>> It matters not that what I say is acceptable to holohuggers.
>>
>> The fact that matters is that what I say is dominant.

> Doesn’t it just tweak you that we all came down to Tampa, got real
> drunk, and didn’t invite you along? Nu?

> It matters not.

Since when do holohuggers have to travel to get roaring drunk and vomit in the
streets?

You folks fascination with drinking, seeing it in everyone else, is one of the
clear signs of alcohol dependence, i.e. alcoholism.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:44 PDT 1996
Article: 68232 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on Zyklon B
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:22:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 13:47:43 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) wrote:

>I have a question regarding Zyklon B.
>On page 566 of Hilberg’s 1961 edition of THE DESTRUCTION OF
>EUROPEAN JEWRY it states:
> . . . . In the gas chamber the material immediately passed
> into the gaseous state.

> Page 138 of THE WORLD MUST KNOW shows a picture of a Zyklon B
>canister from A/B and pellets from Majdanek.
>I understand that Zyklon B deteriorated in the container after a
>number of months.
>Did this leave the pellets intact but in an inert condition as
>depicted in the picture?

>Did the pellets retain the blue color after gas release?
>This must have been covered but I don’t remember reading it.

Of course the pellets were never blue. It is simply that the eyewitnesses
thought cyanide was blue (or mauve in one case.)

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:45 PDT 1996
Article: 68235 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers reveal themselves
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:32:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Sep 1996 17:49 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In <51ukhe[email protected]>, the troll writes…
>>The holohuggers have, to a critter, sided with the murderous Israelis, against
>>the Americans they murdered.

> Actually, no. Most everyone here has said the same thing the US
> government said: it was an unfortunate accident.

That is another holohugger lie. There was no such statement by the US
government.

>>Now we know what traitors they really are.
>>If there was ever any doubt, we know where their loyalties lie.
>>Their loyalties lie with the murdering jews in Isreal.

> … “but I am not an anti-semite”

The truth can not be anti-semitic.

> [anti-semitic .sig deleted]

If I had known you liked it so much I would not have change it.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68238 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is there no revisionist version of Nizkor?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:52:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 21 Sep 96 07:54:17 GMT, [email protected] (Allan Matthews) wrote:

>Nizkor, preeminently among other sites, has a great deal of information
>regarding the standard view of the holocaust. Pictures, documents, etc. etc.
>So, I ask the revisionists – why is there on comparable site to this
>supporting your side of the story?

Why haven’t you looked?
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68263 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: On more points
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:20:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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In case you missed all the rest of the evidences of Hitler’s Marxism …

When he was confronted with forming a government his three people were
confronted by eight (evil, right wing) conservatives to control his party.

His first speech was declaring power to the workers, that being the meaning of
“Arbeit macht Frei,” a marxist slogan. Of course holohuggers think it only
existed at Auschwitz.

And of course the day after that speech the Nazis took over the offices of the
workers guilds just as did the Bolsheviks and all marxist groups before and
since once they took power.

The first holiday (also a paid holiday) was the worker’s day on 1 May, the
traditional holiday for marxists.

=====

As you have all noted, when I posted th 25 points of the NSDAP platform, today’s
US liberals clearly support many of those points. Political conservatives, then
as now, opposed the marxist platform of the NSDAP such as the abolition of
income that does not come from labor, universal health care, free higher
education and the like.

The reason US liberals are so insistent upon declaring Hitler and the NSDAP is
right wing and conservative is clearly that they support so many of the
principles of the NSDAP including the use of force for social change.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:47 PDT 1996
Article: 68268 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Are anti-Semites inherently unstable?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:23:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:46:31 -0400, “Annie Alpert, OFB”
wrote:

>Matt appears to be self-destructing. “Kurt Stele” took a powder. Willis
>Carto has a shoot-out with Greg Raven and the Bradley Smith. Milton
>Kleim, White Wolf and Rev Schroeder suffered moral ephiphanies. And what
>of our other fallen comrades who post volumnuously for a while and then
>disappear into the ether?

>What is it about Holocaust deniers that make them so unstable? It
>doesn’t say much for the cause, if it attracts such neurotic souls.

And Annie continues to imagine that anything she posts has any effect.

Get used to it. The only way you holohuggers can have any effect is to harrass
and to lie to ISPs. So get with the program and start libeling people like YFE
does.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:48 PDT 1996
Article: 68271 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!interpath!news.interpath.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: suddenly there is physical evidence
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

After it was clearly and forcefully pointed out there is no physical evidence of
gassing and after the response regarding conflicting witness reports about
Dresden were discounted we found two other responses.

One is the claim that it exists only one CD and can only be presented by mail
and can not be posted in public on alt.revisionism. The person making this
claim is not only clearly lying he has admitted to membership in an organization
of Jewish murderers very like the IDF. Who would believe a murderer?

The other claim has become more common, to simply assert that it exists but
refuse to post it. This is being done despite the full and complete knowledge
that there are exactly three questionable documents that would constitute
physical evidence.

The lack of physical evidence is clearly a very, very sore point for the
holohuggers.

And of course the holohuggers will continue to refuse to post it while doing all
of the above.
=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:49 PDT 1996
Article: 68287 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: no response?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:44:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51l38g$ls[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 17 Sep 1996 04:06:54 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> In the last two days I have posted twenty or so messages contrary to
>the
>> holocaust myth and not one response from he holohuggers.

> That’s a lie — your usual means of communication. Frankly your posts
>have descended into such a pattern of ranting and raving that it has become
>hard to take you seriously.
>
>> It is good that the holohuggers have remained silent on the matter.
>They would
>> embarrass themselves were they to object.

> The embarrasment is yours. You have made a fool of yourself so
>many times that every time you post a new lie the question is: who is laughing
>loudest at you?

> I read your posts on Nuremberg. It is apaprent you are familiar neither
>with law or those proceedings.

> Interspersed with your ignorant ravings have been dishonest
>ad hominum fabrications and a brand of anti-Semitic rants that would do Julius
>Streicher proud.

Thank you for the confirmation of what I said, no matter how hysterically you
had to phrase it.
=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 08:14:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68321 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:33:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ps9a$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:30:08 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:24:46 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
>>wrote:

>[snip]

>>>It is a common denier error to suppose that the conditons that
>>>prevailed at any given time must always have prevailed. This is
>>>another way of putting things into context.

>> It appears you are saying that the end war conditions in the camps were not
>>unusual but were the conditions that existed from the moment the camps were
>>open. Do I have that correct or would you like to correct that impression?

>No. You have it about as wrong as can be. I would argue that the camps
>were lethal from the beginning but lethal for different reasons at
>different times and, yes, perhaps.

As the camps under discussion are Dachau and Buchenwald, in what manner do you
hold they were lethal in the beginning? Evidence of said lethality will also be
appreciated.

>But the question which is usually evaded by deniers is what most of
>the inmates were doing in those camps in the first place. Most of them
>had committed no crime which would be recognized as such by any
>civilized society. They should not have been there, but while they
>were there they were the responsibility of the people who ran the
>camps. Innocent people died in those camps in their tens of thousands
>long before the Allied bombing campaigns and long before Germany began
>to suffer from acute shortages.

>Deniers only ever have two answers to this problem. You have argued
>for both.

>I agree that it was criminal for the American and Canadian governments
>to have imprisoned their own citizens solely on the grounds of their
>Japanese ancestry. I agree that it was criminal for those governments
>to strip them of their property, and I welcomed the Canadian
>government’s recent efforts to make restitution while recognizing that
>the compensation package was inadequate.

>Like the Nazis, those governments imprisoned people on the basis of
>their race and seized their property. But there the comparison ends.
>The “Japanese” were not imprisoned in a lethal environment; they did
>not have life expectancies that could be measured in months; they
>escaped with their lives, health, and families intact. I doubt whether
>very many concentration camp inmates could say the same thing.

I will be awaiting your discussion of what you consider to have been lethal in
these two camps and the evidence you have for said lethality at that time.

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 10:09:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68357 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviet Def Comedy Jam
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:57:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3244[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 15:43:23 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> If you read any good book on the IMT, it seems that the Judges relied
>> more on documentation in their verdicts. Also because the
>> documentation had to read into the record, this limited the amount of
>> documents the Americans could enter. The American wished to bury the
>> defense in documents. But they failed to translate these documents
>> into the various languages. So the judges ordered that these be read
>> by doing so caused them to be translated by ther IBM system in use by
>> the court. Neat, huh? When you post these excerpts without comment we
>> must shrug. We have no idea as to the affect/effect or content of
>> these testimonies. Appears to be a bubblering Giwer methodology.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>Right, Mike.

Again, he must have missed them.

>Without getting too deeply into this, here are a few direct quotes from
Soviet “witnesses” and prosecutors detailing German “atrocities”:

“N.N. Dashkova, a woman from the village of Adjimushkaisk, testified:
(Evidently veofre a Soviet Commission)

“I myself saw the Germans, who had caught about 900 Red Army soldiers in
the quarry, first ill-treat and then shoot them. The fascists used gas
(sic!).
Ibid. P.388.

And finally,

I couldn’t improve on the above even if I wanted to.
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 11:06:42 PDT 1996
Article: 86875 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:37:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:102307 alt.revisionism:68370 alt.politics.white-power:44506 soc.culture.europe:48189 soc.culture.german:86875

On 23 Sep 1996 03:26:13 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Okay, I’ll take that as a concession. Thanks, Matt.

>Case closed.

>Bill

“Do you realize I am Jewish?”

“Oh? Medals, down the hall, second door on the left.”

“Don’t you realize I am a victim. You can’t do that to me.”

“As you will. Gassing, down the hall, third door on the left.”

“Look! Look, everybody! I’m being hated. Come see the anti-semite!”

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:23:21 PDT 1996
Article: 86880 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:05:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:86880 alt.censorship:102311 alt.religion.scientology:193033 alt.revisionism:68380 soc.culture.europe:48191

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:58:32 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>! Most of the people killing each other are criminals
>! killing off criminals. Who cares?

>We do. Criminals should be killed by good people, not other criminals.

There is a serious problem with that. You kill a criminal in all but the
cleanest of circumstances and your risk criminal prosecution. You certainly
face civil prosecution. Even the police face administrative leave, taking them
off the street.

But when criminals kill criminals the only people at risk of criminal and civil
liabilities are other criminals.

The way we have it is cleaner all round.

>Also, there’s sizable chunks of the legal code that should be sent to
>/dev/null, before considering them truly criminal. Smoking crack or
>stealing from stores to feed a starving family is not truly criminal
>in this criminal of societies.

However, buying drugs instead of food is truly criminal.

True crimes are crimes against the
>whole society, such as lying to the public from a government or
>corporate platform, unapproved international trade and more specific
>efforts to undermine sovereignty.

While lying to Congress is a crime, Congress lying to the people is not a crime.
On the other hand, it is better considered a lynching offense.

Petty crimes are crimes too, but to
>a far less of a degree. Consider the frequency, of say, a white woman
>being raped. An individual rape is bad enough, but isn’t it even worse
>that the leaders of our society actually promote rape? A single
>anti-racist movie like “Mississippi Burning” or “Pocahontas” probably
>causes more rapes than the worst of the serial rapists on an
>individual level.

As with robbing banks, one goes where the pussy is. With ordinary rape there is
rarely reason to leave the neighborhood which explains why black on black crime
far exceeds black on white crime.

As for movies as a cause of crime, that is something in the minds of
fuzzy-brained liberals. I am reminded of the woman who said that her children
burned down the trailer while watching Beavis and Butthead, failing to mention
that she did not have cable.

You probably do not remember when the US ended all juvenile crime in this
country by banning violent comic books.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:26:13 PDT 1996
Article: 68371 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:36:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:29:43 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> And other than the lies of YFE there are not claims of autopseys
>showlng gassing
>> as the cause of death. The complete lack of forensic evidence is quite
>telling.

>Autopsies, idiot.

Does spelling make them exist? Or is there something you imagine you are
contributing other than a childish petulance regarding spelling? Do you imagine
you have ever contributed anything other than that?

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:26:14 PDT 1996
Article: 68376 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer admits again that he is a troll….
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:59:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ued6$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vn5a$3uk@news.enter.net> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:54:37 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) offers the web sites
>of Greg Raven, a Hitler admirer who stated that Hitler
>was a “great man” and “the best thing that could have
>happened to Germany”. He also offers Ernst Zundel’s
>site; Zundel not only admires Hitler,

Without the fabulous holocaust, Hitler was no worse than Mussolini or Franco.
Your argument is circular.

he also believes
>that the Nazi leadership escaped Germany in “secret
>UFO’s” and flew into the inner earth through a big
>hole in the South-Pole (see the web site with Zundel’s
>”research”, address posted by Jamie McCarthy).

Jimmy Carter saw UFOs and was attacked by rabbits.

>Is it any surprise that Giwer finds these people
>credible? We all know, after all, what Giwer is.

It is good to see that you agree with their message regarding the fraudulent
nature of the holocaust legends as you can do nothing but attack the messengers.

That is the same approach you folks attribute to Hitler, condemn all science
that was developed by jews because they were jews. Holohuggers have the same
fallacy, that the message is the same as the messenger. Holohuggers are very
illogical.

Now that it is clear there is no difference between Hitler and the holohuggers,
it should be clear to everyone that they can read these sites with an open mind.
They have clearly read your attempt to shoot the messenger to stop the message.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:26:14 PDT 1996
Article: 68382 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:11:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:01:16 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>It is amazing that the crazed Matt Giwer continues to
>insist he’s not an antisemite.

>Look at the following:

> From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 18:03:39 EDT 1996
> Article: 122283 of alt.revisionism

># As a murdering, scum traitor, you are the best example of
># what a jew can be, a murdering traitor.
>#
># You scum jew traitor.

>Sigh. If only this senile, semi-retarded piece of human
>garbage would find a job (he’s been unemployed since
>he was 46-years-old, a fact which for some reason he’s
>very proud of). But who’s going to hire such a useless
>piece of trash? The IHR, maybe…

You are still a jew and still a traitor and you still support the murder of
Americans.

You appear to be attempting to equate telling the truth about you with
anti-semitism.

Of course, as a jew, you would attempt to hide behind that charge and play
victim. It is your only skill in life.

“Do you realize I am Jewish?”

“Oh? Medals, down the hall, second door on the left.”

“Don’t you realize I am a victim. You can’t do that to me.”

“As you will. Gassing, down the hall, third door on the left.”

“Look! Look, everybody! I’m being hated. Come see the anti-semite!”

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:56:31 PDT 1996
Article: 44507 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:37:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:15:59 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> […deletia: irrelevancies, following William Anderson’s documentation
> of Giwer’s statements, which Giwer claimed he had not made…]

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

“Do you realize I am Jewish?”

“Oh? Medals, down the hall, second door on the left.”

“Don’t you realize I am a victim. You can’t do that to me.”

“As you will. Gassing, down the hall, third door on the left.”

“Look! Look, everybody! I’m being hated. Come see the anti-semite!”

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68392 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.lava.net!coconut!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:16:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:02:24 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Giwer recently claimed that the amount of Zyklon-B, necessary
>to kill people in the gas chambers in 10-15 minutes, was too
>much for two men to carry on a ladder:

> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/08/10
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>
># Go take another look at it and note the amount released in
># the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common
># description of the time frame. THEN calculate backwards to
># find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality
># in that time frame.
>#
># And then, when you discover that two people could not carry
># enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to
># kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.

>A trivial calculation, which I posted, shows the weight
>to be 3 Kg. And this, in the largest gas chambers, in
>which there were 4 openings; that’s 3/4 of a Kg for
>each SS-man. 8 Kg (2 Kg per SS-man) would result in
>an even faster death. Is Giwer claiming that an SS-man
>could not carry such an amount?

Nice try that. It has been over a month since you used the size of the entire
LK instead of the size of the one room out of five that is claimed to have been
used for gassing. Now you try to resurrect an old message and pretend you did
not screw up so badly.

And in ignoring that it was only one of the five rooms you also attempt to
resurrect the idea that those four dark patches were related to that one room.

You fucked up royally. We are not going to start over. You were clearly wrong
and your fellow holohuggers posted that you were wrong.

>There is nothing “miraculous” about the facts of the
>Holocaust; the only miracle we see here is the fact that
>Giwer managed to stay employed till he was 46-years-old
>(when he retired).

Obvious jealousy. Poor little traitor has to work. What a victim!

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68409 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:32:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 244
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32414854[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:05:15 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>Troll-Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>[snip]

>> So just how can you think you can get away with claiming that a true statement
>> about jews is a hatred of jews.

>Examples of Giwer’s ‘true’ statements about Jews (which clearly
>demonstrate that Giwer is an anti-semetic little troll):

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>said:

> I don’t know how to indentify jews. Why don’t you tell me?
>
> The nose, the funny hats, the names, the beards, the “I want a
> Mercedes” whine? How are they identifiable? What identifies them?
> Ask three jews what is a jew and you get four opinions. Maybe you
> can do better.

>In article <[email protected]>, posting from a new e-mail
>address when Combase got sick of you and kicked you off, you wrote:

> A black barber speaks to a black customer.

> Did I ever tell you about the American dream? Every nigger
> swimming back to Africa … with a Jew under each arm.

>In article <[email protected]>, posting from yet
>another new email address ([email protected]) when Netcom rejected
>you for your threats and harassment of other users, you wrote:

> Well asked.
> But you forget
> What does it mean to be called Big Nose?

>It is patently obvious that you are an anti-semite. Further, you are a
>hateful little troll, who as a matter of course routinely engages in
>harassment, including threats, mailbombs, and libel. In addition, being
>the morally bankrupt, impotent little creep that you are, you resort to
>outright lies, and intellectual (if that word can be used in reference to
>you – I am not certain that it can) dishonesty.

>But then, as has been pointed out to you in the past, you are little more
>than an admitted troll:

> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>

>You, little man, are completely devoid of anything resembling decency,
>morality, and integrity.

>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at

>[incoherent Giwer .sig deleted]
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

This is certainly very important to cancer research.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68411 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:31:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5241[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Sep 1996 08:49:10 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

> For example, on the Hoess front, what are you trying to imply? That
>> his testimony is worthless because he may have been roughed up by his captors?
>> Or because he changed his estimate of the number of people murdered at
>> Auschwitz?

>Mr. McFee, you seem to be an intelligent individual. Is it really necessary for me to >spell
>all this out for you in detail?

With McFly, appearances are very deceiving.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68413 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer the Ignorant
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:29:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5242ba$9h[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 19:47:10 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 21 Sep 1996 20:16:03 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> >> Then how do you know there were any such prisoners? Please be
>> >specific in your
>> >> answer.
>
>> > From. among other documents, the railroad manifests of the people
>> >transported to Auschwitz.

>> Unfortunately, some months ago I brought up the use of railroad
>manifests as a
>> source of the number of unregistered and I was informed by the holohuggers
>that
>> there were no such manifests.

> You are lying. No one ever said that. What they said was that not all
>of them still exist. Many do. So do the bills presented by the German raliway
>system for the transportation. Examples of both are on display at the Holocaust
>Museum of Houston.

Pay attention to the thread. That is what was said.

However, if it is your contention that not all of them EVER existed then upon
what basis do you claim they ever existed much less the numbers on them?

If you are claiming they at one time existed but do not now, who do you supposed
destroyed them and why? If your answer is the Nazis destroyed them, then upon
what basis was a total number created?

>> And since then we have found that the Einsatzgruppen executed some
>4.2 million
>> people and thus the recorded number of people sent to all the camps in fact
>> matches the number of registered people in the camps.

> You are out of your mind.

Rather I can do arithmetic. We have been over this. The IMT declared 6
million. Every writer has declared between 5 and 6 million. Auschwitz lost 3
million. They had to go some place.

I agree arithmetic was not covered in pre-law but that does not mean your
ignorance of the subject rules.

That meand 4.2 million by the EG unless you would like to provide other places
where the numbers increased.

>> If you recall the
>> holhugger insistance that there were over 1000 camps then you will realize that
>> there was an average of under 1800 prisoners in each of them minus the EG
>talley
>> of course.

> Goldhagen gave the figure of 10,000 camps. Please try to put a fact or
>two in your incoherent rants.

Excuse me. That means and average of only 180 prisoners per camp. I did not
realize it was so low. I will be happy to quote your beliefs. Or is averaging
beyond you also. (That was rhetorical.)

>> Have you not been paying attention to the discussion?

> Of course I have. You have descended into utter incoherence. If you
>were sober when you wrote this I suggest you seek medical help.

If you really think you are going to make any more points with that tactic than
you and your fellow lying holohuggers have made so far, please redouble your
efforts.

When the lurkers understand what I write clearly, the revisionists understand
what I write clearly, then it is equally clear that only holohuggers are so
deficient in literacy and reason as to have a problem with what I write.

You folks do not appear to have a well thought out objective with this approach.

You were doing better when you were merely libeling me to AT&T and to your
service provider.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68414 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The IDF pilots spoke English during their murder of the
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:11:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <523j1q$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <523l0t$3c[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:44:40, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>>It is simply amazing to see the depths of insanity to
>>which Giwer sinks…

>And that’s precisely the point, Dr. Keren. Mr. Giwer’s obnoxiousness can
>blind one to how sick and deluded he is. He’ll simply say anything whatsoever
>in order to draw attention to himself; the best thing to do, IMHO, is to treat
>such poor, pitiful wretches as Giwer with as much rachmoness and downright
>pity as one can.

It is expected that jew traitors would support each other.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68427 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!iag.net!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:52:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50agrb$17s@sjx <[email protected]> <9f7[email protected]> <52[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:193087 alt.censorship:102333 alt.revisionism:68427 soc.culture.europe:48198 soc.culture.german:86904

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:55:46 GMT, [email protected] (George F. Hardy)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (William Barwell) says:
>>
>>Pardon me, but I have never seen a BATF agent at all, much less a
>>jackbooted one. I do own arms.

>Are you aware that the BATF has admitted that it is their
>standard policy to lie in court? That an investigation of
>testimony of BATF agents in criminal trials found that in 49%
>of all cases, the BATF agents committed perjury, with the full
>approval of the administration. And that this has been the
>policy since, at least, 1979, so both political parties are
>in agreement with this policy.

Your government in action.

The consequences of this will be that judges will overturn some number of
convictions but probably not near enough.

On the other hand, since a federal prosecutor must bring perjury charges and
since they were prosecution witnesses they will NOT be charged with perjury.

=====

Remember Waco, The murderers are still free.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:00:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68438 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:40:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:39:00 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Yet again, our 163-IQ’ed “leading revisionist”, Matt Giwer,
>proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
>nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) posted:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## A high concentration of CO can
>## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
>## concentration of HCN will kill them.

># There is none from a diesel engine. Even you
># should know that.

>”The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”, by
>J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
>Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

>Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
>engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
>ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
>exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
>which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
>on page 99).

We have been over your ignorance of how diesel engines operate many times.
Repetition does not make correct.

And besides I have posted the TRUE, EYEWITNESS testimony that STEAM was used and
not diesel engines. So take your fanciful nonsense of diesel engines and get a
life instead of a lie.

>## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
>## such as NO2. Also, it’s easy to tune the engine so
>## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
>## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

># Not a diesel.

>Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
>table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he’s totally wrong
>about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is
>practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios
>(say, 0.056) there’s only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the
>exhaust.

>Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
>amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
>sharply as the ratio is increased.

>Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
>that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
>goes to show that either they’re lying, or that
>they haven’t got the foggiest idea of what they’re
>talking about.

>The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
>clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
>tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.

So you claim the eyewitness lied and that you, who were never there is telling
the truth.

That is the way it is with holohuggers, the witnesses lied. Only people who
were never there tell the truth.

So Keren lies once more about diesel engines when it was really steam. Why do
you lie like that? Can’t you let the testimony of the people who were there
stand on its own?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded! Keren bullshits again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

Hey, Keren! Where is your story about the Polish “spies” not getting
close this time?

” The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the
chambers. There are terracota floors in the chambers which become very slippery
when wet … All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were
collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were
driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking…Many slipped and fell, the
next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply
thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically
closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over.”

IMT XXXII – pp. 156-157.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:01:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68440 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger argumentation
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:54:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 16:22:49 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>Assertion:
>>
>> “There is no physical evidence of gassing during the holocaust.”
>>
>>Response:
>>
>> “There are conflicting witness accounts of Dresden.”

> Let us contrast this with “revisionist” argumentation, which is to
>lie, distort, selectively edit, tell half-truths, etc.

> In this case, Mr. Giwer is lying outright. He has been presented with
>physical evidence;

Pesticide residue is not evidence of gassing people. Three ambiguous documents
are not evidence of gassing people. And that is all that people have attempted
to construe into mass gassing.

the argument about Dresden was a response to something
>else. It is merely a reductio ad absurdum about “revisionist” methods of
>argument and standards of evidence, and their intellectual inconsistency
>in what they will accept for some historical events but not for the
>Holocaust.

You need to pay attention to the conference. That was in direct response to the
observation of the complete and total lack of physical evidence of gassing
people.

Read the conference some time. You will look less foolish.

=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:01:01 PDT 1996
Article: 68441 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:55:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51e[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 14:16:00 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Mary Apicella wrote:

>>Dear Matt,
>> I glanced through other remarks that you have made about this issue.
>>HOW COULD YOU MAKE THESE STATEMENTS!
>>ARE YOU EVIL, OR JUST DON’T LIKE JEWISH PEOPLE?

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>To eliminate Mr. Giwer’s vulgarity from your daily newsreading, add the line

> /mgiwer@/f=j

>to your universal KILL file. If you do not enjoy the luxury of
>such a filter, simply delete Mr. Giwer’s articles unread.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:40:16 PDT 1996
Article: 44517 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: More Giwerundean scribblings
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:38:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 120
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51nesm$hme@lex.zippo.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51url0$6n6@jerry.loop.net> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:25:12 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> They mutually agree that they are reasonable. That had better
>be good enough
>> for them as it is all they have going for them.
>>
>>
>> FROM YOUR IMT:
>>
>>
>>
>> DR SEIDL: When the witness was heard here I had no opportunity to
>> cross-examine him, and for that reason ….
>>
>> PRESIDENT: Why did you have no opportunity to cross examine him?
>>
>> DR SEIDL: Because I did not know beforehand that he would be called by the
>> Prosecution as a witness and had no opportunity to speak to the Defendant
>> Frank about the questions which might have been put to the witness.
>>
>> [….]
>>
>> DR SEIDL: May I perhaps add something to this point? The difficulty of cross
>> examination is just this, that we do not learn of the intended calling of a
>> witness by the Prosecution until the witness is led into the courtroom, and
>> we do not know the subject of the evidence until the Prosecution start to
>> examine the witness.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just like in any regular trial.
>>
>> Source: IMT, VIII, p. 521

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

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462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

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=====

===

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CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:40:17 PDT 1996
Article: 44518 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: More Giwerundean scribblings
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:36:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 113
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51nesm$hme@lex.zippo.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:25:28 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> […deletia…]

>> I have never said that. Why would you make it up? That is
>rhetorical. You
>> would make it up because you are a holohugger.
>>

>> […deletia…]

>>
>> I no longer have copies of my grade school history books. How
>did you miss it?
>> Go to a public school?
>>

>> […deletia…]

>> What should be common knowledge is something you are required to
>look up for
>> yourself.

>> […deletia…]

>> Polite perhaps but false and dishonest.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

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=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
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Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 16:40:18 PDT 1996
Article: 44519 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: The Best of Billy Anderson
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:43:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <322eef53.5469[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:44519 alt.politics.scorched-earth:566 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:564 alt.usenet.kooks:29401

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:57:54 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 03:27:16 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

># You mean like Yid beanies?

>Little impotent man, it is always so good to see you being such an obvious
>bigot. I’m _sure_ you are making a real hit with the lurkers who are _so_
>impressed with your research and knowledge.

>I hereby decalre little man Giwer the best revisionism has to offer.

You mean that since Yid is a legitimate yiddish word for the people who have a
superstitious reason for wearing a beanie is a problem for you?

Do you have something better to offer than that? Or do you support the silly
superstitions of Yids?

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:32 PDT 1996
Article: 68444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) – fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:51:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <518[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Sep 1996 05:21:32 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Gassification cellar, whatever that is, from a word construction
>; unknown in the German language prior to the IMT.

>Again, Matt displays his stunning lack of knowledge of the German
>language.

What I have said has already been established in this conference. You should
pay attention to it some time. At least you would know what is going on.

>: But, if you would ever take the time to examine the real aerial
>: photos you will find there are no buildings connected to the Krema V
>: that could be it and it had not cellar. And you know that. Should I
>: post it again?

>I don’t know what “it had not cellar” means, Matt–but the Oxford
>English Dictionary defines “cellar” as “A store-house or store-room,
>whether above or below ground.” Would you like to defend your lie in
>light of this definition?

The question was, do you want me to post the picture again? That is a very
simple question. That way you can see for yourself that there are no other
buildings connected with IV or V. If you do not want to look at the picture and
still declare the connected buildings are there, that is acting like a
holohugger.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68454 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The IDF pilots spoke English during their murder of the
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:10:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <523j1q$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <523l0t$3c[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:35:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>It is simply amazing to see the depths of insanity to
>which Giwer sinks, in order to push his myth that the
>USS Liberty was intentionally attacked during the
>1967 Arab-Israeli War.

Combatting the lies of Israel and its apologists takes a lot of time.

They are more clearly pushing the party line than did the CPUSA, with as little
honesty.

>He now claims that Hebrew is not spoken in Israel,
>therefore, it was possible to hear the Israeli pilots
>speaking in English about their intent to attack the
>Liberty.

>Hebrew is, of course, the only language spoken in
>Israel.

That is your position, not mine.

>The Giwer bases his claim on the fact that when Israeli
>PM, Netanyau, visits the US, he speaks in English…

I was speaking of the campaign speeches of both candidates made in Israel and
carried in the news. Of you never pay attention to the news.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68471 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:05:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:56:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

>buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
>Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

>buchenwald02.jpg:
>Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

>shrunken.jpg:
>The shrunken head of an inmate.

It has to be a Jewish head. It has a big nose.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:34 PDT 1996
Article: 68475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:06:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:03:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

>Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

>The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.

Another Nazi miracle, no signs of fire damage but burned alive.

What an asshole.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68476 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Fascist Continent
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:08:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <516[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:44537 alt.revisionism:68476 alt.politics.nationalism.white:31042 soc.culture.jewish:76421

On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 02:44:49 -0500, [email protected] (Andy Walton) wrote:

>Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

> :Untrue Nazism brought an economic boom to the German economy. It
> :brought Germany out of the depression and allowed it to create the most
> :powerful war machine ever know to man

>The economic growth the Nazis brought to Germany was solely the result of
>military expansion. War always brings increased productivity and
>employment. Of course, to maintain the military-based economic expansion,
>eventually, you need a war…

That is a awfully damned stupid comment. Military expansion bankrupted the
Soviet Union and we are doing quite well, thank you. You are repeating the
hippie grasp of economics.

>The Nazis rebuilt the German economybased on military expansion.
>Ultimately, Nazi militarism led to the abject destruction of Germany. You
>can’t separate Germany’s economic boom from its ultimate decimation; they
>both grew from the same process. If Hitler is responsible for bringing
>Germany to its greatest strength, then he is also responsible for bringing
>it to its most abject defeat.

And since the US got the same boost from a military build up in the same time
frame how do you fit that into your hippie scenario?

The wages of a military buildup is not destruction despite what fool hippies
imagine.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 17:42:36 PDT 1996
Article: 68477 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer – the Poor, Senile Liar (Re: WW I and US involvement)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:10:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:09:25 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>The poor, senile, unemployed Giwer once again posts
>a “testimony” which does not exist.

>Incredible.

> Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
> Which Does Not Exist
> ——————–

>Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
>fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

>Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
>order to “prove” that testimonies of survivors are a “lie”.

>The tactic is simple; “revisionists” use it all the time. They
>invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one,
>and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron
>did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.

># In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
># trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
># Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
># Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
># gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.

>Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is
>trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such
>gassing, in order to “prove” that this witness was lying.

I posted the testimony. If you disagree with an eyewitness then who is lying?
You or the eyewitness?

>Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
>he can’t. Note that his only response to this reasonable
>request is to spam the group by reposting something totally
>unrelated.

>But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
>miserable liar like Giwer.

>-Danny Keren.

Of course I would put nothing above a traitor.
=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 18:41:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:15:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <324467eb.1[email protected]> <523lr9$l9[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 00:49:48 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>As for the existence of a homicidal gas chamber at Dachau, I would be
>the first to admit that the evidence for its existence is slender at
>best.

Slender? YFE claims to have autopsy reports proving it. Are you joining the
rest of us in calling YFE’s bluff for the liar he is?

About time.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 18:41:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68490 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW I and US involvement
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:11:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On 23 Sep 1996 22:08:01 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>[more crap]

> Come on, where’s that evidence to substantiate the claim that the
>Zimmermann telegram is a forgery?!

I am looking for some gradeschool history texts to refer you to so that you can
get filled in on what you missed.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 18:41:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68491 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:14:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <524b7f$n[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 240.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 22:46:45 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> That was not a change, that was the original request. It was you folks
>who
>> shortened it, failing to provide the original request. But of course you will
>> come up with one that you can construe did not include gassing.
>

> Liar. Your original statement was that there were only two historians who
>wrote on “the Holocaust.” Your challenge was to name three historians who had
>researched and written on “the Holocaust.”

> Play you childish games with soemone else.

> Admit that you were wrong.

At least you agree the IDF attack on the Liberty was a deliberate attack upon a
US ship.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 18:41:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68492 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: 1967 Arab-Israeli War (Was; Re; The USS Li
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:35:36 GMT
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:04:43 -0700, Nizan wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>> It is called rhetoric, something that exist often when 2 people
>> are engaged in a war, or when a growing tension exist. The arabs
>> had the experience of the first israelo-arab war and had serious
>> reasons to not trust Israel. They had face a first invasion and
>> the lost of important pieces of land. It seems easy when you
>> invade a country and expell hundreds of thousands of people from
>> their land to claim after the accomplished fact: any rhetoric directed
>> toward us is ‘hate speech’, lets talk about peace now. The fact
>> is simply that the Israelis had in the mind for a while that the
>> west bank was their biblic land. Even if Jordania hadn’t attack
>> Israel in response to the Israeli’s agression against Egyptia and
>> Syria, Israel would have invade this land a day.
>>
>> Comitee for an open debate on the Holocaust: http://www.codoh.com/

>Dear Jean-Francois Beaulieu.

>Reading you post, I realize you suffer a little lack
>of basic information.

>1. Before 1967 Israel didn’t occupy almost any Egyptian/Jordanian/Syrian
>land.
> Not an amount that justify war.

In whose opinion was it not enough? And why admit there was occupation in the
first place?

>2. Those Arab countries, that did not accept Israel’s existence sine
>1948.

Why should they? Jews certainly had no claim to it.

>3. Until 1948, no land has been stolen, but bought with full money.

Purchase has never been the basis for national sovereignty.

>4. The Arab countries, which are very not democratic regard war as a
>fair solution
> to internal problems. That way people will not think about
>hunger, lack of
> education, etc.

War is always a fair solution to problems. Are you still in hippie-land?

>6. As the result of that war, we took the west bank, a destructive
>result as I see it.
> We grew a generation that don’t even know that Hebron, Jenin,
>Ramalla were taken
> by force, and worth:
> 120,000 Israeli actually live in the west bank, a serious matter
>that interrupt
> any attempt to reach a piece agreement with the Palestinians.

But they are going to have to leave if there is to be peace. But as a matter of
continuing provocation, Israel first permitted settlement and then encouraged it
to increase in a DELIBERATE effort to make the only solution war.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:47 PDT 1996
Article: 68498 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: AIPAC, Israel before the US
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:04:24 GMT
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http://www.aipac.org/hot/whyaid.htm

It is unfortunate AIPAC is unable to answer the question it poses.

Why Aid To Israel?

Small Price for Peace and Security

Since the end of the Cold war, unrest in many regions of the world has demanded
U.S. attention.

The Middle East, however, remains one of the worlds’ most volatile areas and
U.S. interests there are as compelling as ever. With the peace process offering
great promise, there is real hope that stability may come to one area of this
troubled region.

[ However, since we know that Zionist policy is to attempt to get what they
want by negotiation but if that fails by war, there is really no hope for peace
unless the Zionists get what they want. ]

Aid to Israel is an important tool for promoting U.S. interests in this vital
but turbulent region. U.S. aid allows Israel to defend itself — virtually all
of Israel’s aid is security-related — and it gives Israelis the confidence they
need to take the risks necessary for peace. U.S. aid also sends a signal to Arab
countries about the permanence of Israel and its relations with the United
States.

[ It is unclear what risks Israel thinks it takes other than excursions into
other countries. It is also unclear what those excursions might have to do with
peace. As to the signal, it works against US interests.]

At a fraction of what the United States spends to defend its interests in
regions where the threats are not nearly as great, aid to Israel is one of the
most cost-effective investments in our security. Plus, 85 percent of it is spent
right here in the U.S. — creating jobs and boosting the economies of 43 states.

[ However, it has always been clear to the US that such an investment could
never be of value and when the Gulf War came along it was clearly of no value.
That means the entire investment was wasted and continues to be wasted.]

A Beacon of Democracy

We’ve heard the words “stable, democratic ally” so often to describe Israel, we
sometimes forget their significance. They are not just niceties, they are
important cornerstones of U.S. policies.

Israel’s commitment to democratic values contrasts sharply with the lack of
democracy in Arab countries — 9 of which are monarchies, 12 of which are
dictatorships. In fact, recently Saudi King Fahd admitted that “the democratic
system prevailing in the world does not suite us.”

The fact that these countries are not democracies means more than merely they
don’t share our values. It also means that we cannot depend on having the same
relationship with these countries tomorrow as we do today since our relationship
is with the current ruler not with “the nation.”

Because of the depth of the U.S.-Israel relationship, there is no doubt that the
U.S. can depend on Israel in a crisis. In contrast, our relationship with other
Middle East Countries is subject to unpredictable changes. One such example
occurred after the Gulf War when the U.S. and Western allies resumed air strikes
to force Iraq to comply with the “no-fly” zone. With no direct threat to Arab
territorial interests, coalition “partners” were unsupportive and in some cases
critical of the U.S. actions.

[ And as Israel knows there is no crisis that might face the US that Israel
can possibly assist in, it is a safe claim to make when they know it will never
be tested.]

A Valuable Friend in the New World Order

Israel is an important resource for the United States as America addresses the
dangers of the post-Cold war era: the acquisition of nuclear and sophisticated
conventional weapons by radical anti-Western regimes like Iraq, Iran, and Libya,
the spread of Islamic extremism by Iran and other nations, the fomenting of
terrorism by numerous organizations and states, and political instability
through out the Middle East.

[ And in the process of claiming to be an ally, Israel undercuts and makes
the US look like hypocrits when the US tries for a nuclear free middle east and
Israel refuses to dismantle it’s nuclear weapons. With help and support like
this why do we need enemies? And the author has the balls to mention nuclear
weapons.]

Israel, located in this volatile region, operates an extensive
intelligence-gathering network, understands Islamic cultures and is the only
stable democracy with a strong defense deterrent in the area. Working together,
the U.S. and Israel are developing economic programs for the Islamic republics
of the former Soviet Union in order to counter the influence of Iran on these
nations.

[ As it is clear that Israel’s military strength is useless to the US and
that its nuclear weapons are destabilizing to the region, it is not clear what
this clown is smoking.]

Strategic and Security Benefits

U.S.-Israel strategic cooperation is well-entrenched — joint military exercises
are frequent, intelligence-sharing is extensive, and Israeli support services of
our military is substantial. Dozens of American weapons systems, including the
Patriot missile and the F-15 fighter, have been improved with Israeli
technological innovations.

[ But if the US declines to share intelligence, Israel will buy it by
subborning espionage against the US. With such traitors as friends, we have no
need of enemies. But Israel is such a loyal ally of the US that they resold was
Pollard stole to the Soviet Union. We have no need of enemies. Israel
collaborated with our enemy.]

This type of sharing will become even more important as the U.S. tries to
maintain a modern defense while at the same time finding more money to fund
domestic programs. Israel has renowned capabilities in 13 of the 21 critical
technological areas that the Pentagon has identified as vital to keeping
American defenses strong.

[ Of course they have many other Americans as paid spies on the US that we
have not uncovered. And as we uncovered in the Pollard case, Israel will sell
anything they get to the highest bidder.]

At Work Across America

The U.S.-Israel relationship is much more than a strategic alliance — it
connects both societies culturally and economically.

[ That is very unfortunate.]

Joint research endowments — such as the U.S.-Israel Binational Industrial
Research and Development foundation (BIRD) and the U.S.-Israel Binational
Agricultural Research and Development fund (BARD) — have netted almost $2.6
billion in sales and $130 million in tax revenues while creating more than
25,000 jobs, all at a cost of $110 million. In many American cities, Israeli
innovations are being applied to early childhood education, disadvantaged youth
and senior citizen programs, and other social services.

[ At the cost of $110,000 there were tax revenues of $130,000. If you make
that kind of investment, I have a bridge to sell you.]

Why Foreign Aid? — We can’t afford not to

Americans have never liked the sound of “foreign aid.” In fact, in 1947 only 17%
of Americans supported President Truman’s Marshall Plan, yet this foreign aid
program became the foundation of our foreign policy in Europe for the next forty
years. It not only established peace and stability in Western Europe, it also
set the stage for the collapse of communism.

Foreign aid is often misrepresented and misunderstood, but when you take a
closer look, it is clear that we gain much more from these programs than we
give.

[ Not one answer here as to why Israel should get foreign aid.]

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:48 PDT 1996
Article: 68506 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:41:34 GMT
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:01:51 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:50:43 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> ># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >## Mistakes happen in wars, whether you like it or not. They
>> >## happen today, such as in the Gulf War, although the technology
>> >## is far superior to 1967 technology.
>>
>> ># There was no war.
>>
>> >You heard it here, folks.
>>
>> >There was no Arab-Israeli war going on in June 8, 1967.
>>
>> >I always knew the “revisionists” would get to that, sooner or
>> >later.
>>
>> Even Alec Grynspan agrees there was no declaration of war.
>>
>> Why don’t you and he get it straightened out before you get back to me.

>This from the same man who pontificated long and loud about there
>being wars that were undeclared that were nonetheless wars when I
>asked him who the US Constitution gave the sole power to make a
>declaration of war.

>Does the term “double standard” spring to mind?

Only ignorant Canadians such as yourself can do that.

As you know, my point is the claim that there was a DECLARED war zone when there
was no such thing. I added that a country can not declare a war zone without
declaring a war.

But then you are a Canadian.
=====
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:49 PDT 1996
Article: 68508 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: zionist nonsense
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:02:08 GMT
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http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/facts/state/zionism.html

This makes for interesting reading.

Just for openers we find the correct dates for both the Kings and for the
Babylonian captivity, and then an after the fact reference in the Psalms to the
captivity. For those interested, the dates clearly establish the Psalms being
written at least 500 years after the time of the Kings.

But more to the point, it attempts to claim that return to the land is an old
idea rather than a recent one. It is as though people of the jewish persuation
are the ones in the human race that feel some connection to land thousands of
years long left.

It promotes the idea of some form of revolution against Rome in the 66 AD
revolution while forgetting that the only evidence of it is that a group of
Judeans took to killing the Judeans they considered collaborators and that the
Romans were welcomed in to get rid of them. Ah well, it supports the zionist
fable.

One point of interest, under the Political Movement, is that it makes the
parallel between nationalism for all countries (including Germany) and Zionism.
Each state was to have a particular national identity and Israel was to have a
jewish identity.

A motto of the liberal nationalism that political zionism espoused was, “A
state for every nation, and the entire nation in one state.”

Copying directly from the URL

The rise of Zionism as a political movement was also a response to the failure
of the Haskala, the Jewish Enlightenment, to solve the “Jewish problem.”
According to Zionist doctrine, the reason for this failure was that personal
emancipation and equality were impossible without national emancipation and
equality, since national problems require national solutions. The Zionist
national solution was the establishment of a Jewish national state with a Jewish
majority in the historical homeland, thus realizing the Jewish people’s right to
self-determination. Zionism did not consider the “normalization” of the Jewish
condition contrary to universal aims and values. It advocated the right of every
people on earth to its own home, and argued that only a sovereign and autonomous
people could become an equal member of the family of nations.

One might compare this description to the first two points of the political
platform of the NSDAP in 1933.

1) We demand the union of all Germans to form a Greater Germany
on the basis of the right of self-determination enjoyed by
nations.

2) We demand equality of rights for the German people in its
dealings with other nations, and abolition of the peace treaties
of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

Continuing the article refers to Arab resistance to Jewish return from the
beginning of actual return, resistance in the form of violence. And this was
long before 1947. It even points out that one of the factions of Zionists
advocated violence.

Even the moderate position can be described as “we get what we want or we kill
arabs.” As follows from the article.

The realists, who comprised the largest Zionist grouping, were dividing into
liberal and socialist subgroups. The realists did not believe it possible to
avert altogether a conflict with the Arabs, but thought it possible to attenuate
the conflict by taking moderate positions. Like the minimalists, they favored
negotiations with local Arabs and supported the development
of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants. However, they were
unwilling to compromise on Zionist goals – a Jewish majority in the Land of
Israel through unrestricted Aliya, and the establishment of a Jewish state. In
contrast to the maximalists, they sought a dialogue with Arabs in Palestine and
abroad, and were willing to consider compromises.

However you will note their uncompromising goal was a political (voting)
majority, that is, a state controlled by Jews. This is only a slight variation
>from the 4th point of the NSDAP platform

4) None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state.
None but those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be
members of the nation. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the
nation.

Zionist were willing to give Arabs the vote as long as there were not enough of
them to politically control Israel. Of course it is clear that Arab immigration
had to be controlled and those laws were only a modest variation upon the 8th
point of the NSDAP platform

8) All non-German immigration must be prevented….

in addition to the law of return.

Further the article goes on to point out that Ben-Gurion was a socialist and
talked in terms of Marxist jargon as did the NSDAP on occasion.

The socialist realist (represented most prominently by David Ben-Gurion Israel’s
first prime minister) based their agenda on the belief that a Jewish economy
could not develop without Jewish agriculture and industry, and that without an
autonomous economy there would be neither a society nor a state. Adherents of
this group also advocated respect of Arab rights, and, for many years they
believed that the Jewish and Arab proletariat shared a common class interest
against the Jewish bourgeoisie and Arab feudalism. However, most of them
eventually reached the conclusion that the struggle was one of nationalities,
not of classes.

Thus again that time in European history was one of many conflicts between the
variants upon marxism, Nazis, Communists, and Zionists among others.

At this point the discussion gets up to the 1936 to 1947 time frame, all the
previous having gone before. It notes that in this time frame the violence grew
even more intense than previously.

During the year 1936-47, the struggle over the Land of Israel grew more intense.
Arab opposition became more extreme with the increased growth and development of
the Jewish community. At the same time, the Zionist movement felt it necessary
to increase immigration and develop the country’s economic infrastructure, in
order to save as many Jews as possible from the Nazi inferno in Europe.

The last line of that is a bit disingenuous as prior to that time it was the
zionist objective to have a numerical superiority. It is unclear how what was
happening in Europe would have increased the immigration efforts.

But the next is quite interesting.

The unavoidable clash between the Jews and the Arabs brought the UN to
recommend, on 29 November 1947 – the establishment of two states in the area
west of the Jordan River – one Jewish and one Arab. The Jews accepted the
resolution; the Arabs rejected it.

This is an entirely different reason than usually suggested. The partition was
to keep the sides from killing each other.

What is of interest to note is that the violence started before 1936 and that
the Zionists were prepared to obtain a voting majority in Palestine even if it
meant the use of violence to do so.

Clearly, it is only the modern apologists who would pretend the origins of
Israel were not violent or were intent upon peace. The zionist founding of
Israel is clearly based upon getting what they at best by negotiation but by
violence if negotiations failed.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:49 PDT 1996
Article: 68509 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Zionism
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:18:15 GMT
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For those interested in Israeli “peace” negotiations, consider the URL on
Zionism I posted from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The message is clear. If Zionists do not get what they want from negotiations
they will use violence. It is right there, up front, without question.
=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:50 PDT 1996
Article: 68512 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topf and Sons, all round geniuses
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:46:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 23 Sep 1996 23:55:15 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 21 Sep 1996 03:07:53 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>: wrote:
>: >Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>:
>: >: I have to agree on that one. I was raised Roman Catholic and
>: >: for nearly 15 years I believed that christians were persecuted by the
>: >: romans before I realized it was all bullshit.
>:
>: >Oh, I can’t wait to hear the explanation for this one.
>:
>: >Come on, Matt–spill. All those speeches before the Senate, all those
>: >imperial orders to supress the “atheist” Christians–more JOO forgeries,
>: >right?
>:
>: All what speeches and orders? There were some four or five orders over four
>: centuries. The “crime” was bringing bad times on the local jurisdiction or even
>: the empire for refusal to sacrifice to the patron dieties. Those orders lasted
>: for the duration of whatever set back was being suffered.

>In other words, Christians WERE persecuted by Romans, and your statement
>above that they weren’t is a lie. Thanks, Matt.

You stupid fool. When people are treated no differently than other groups,
persecution does not apply. PROSECUTION does apply. Is that too hard for you
to understand?

The broke laws. They broke customs. They were PROsecuted under the law. That
is not persecution.

You holohuggers are so stupid.

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:51 PDT 1996
Article: 68513 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Israeli attack on the Liberty was cold blooded murder.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:38:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:27:39 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> >> Particularly if mudering Israelis and “American” jews invent
>enough evidence to
>> >> justify it.

>Mr. Giwer:
>
>I was born in America.
>My father was born in America.
>That, I suppose, makes me second-generation American.
>My religion is not a part of what does or does not make me an American.
>I am an American by birth and by descent.
>
>So why do you put American in quotes when referring to Jews?
>
>Please explain, using facts and data, not invective and name-calling.
>
>If that’s possible.
>
>I didn’t think so.

If you promote the obvious lies of Israel then you are a traitor to the US.

Is that clear enough for you?

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 21:34:52 PDT 1996
Article: 68520 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviet Def Comedy Jam
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:50:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 22 Sep 1996 18:07:47 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> Why don’t you just comment on the quotes? A little bit embarrassing?

> No, they are meaningless. Giwer presents the fact that certain
>defense attorneys made certain objections. He does not note the response of
>the prosecutors; he does not print the decision of the court. They are a giant
>”So what?”

> Giwer claims that a present day appeals court would reverse on the
>basis of what he printed. He is wrong. A modern appeals court would not even
>*consider* his arguments. Indeed, if he quoted them for any purpose other than
>to demonstrate preservation of the issue, he would be escorted from the
>court-room. If he persisted in his line of argument with some very specific
>instructions as to how his contempt can be purged. I have seen it happen.

Thus spake the attorney who libels people and thanks for your number. I do
expect the response to be “who?”

=====
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From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 23:03:25 PDT 1996
Article: 68522 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Germany’s Madagascar resettlement is unbelievable, Right?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:04:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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No one should ever believe the Germans were serious on resettling Jews in
Madagascar. That is just too far beyond belief …

http://www.wzo.org.il/blueprint/page015.htm

Clement Hill, Superintendent of African Protectorates
under the Foreign Office, to Leopold J. Greenberg,
Herzl’s representative in London, 14 August 1903.

This British Foreign Office letter informed the Zionist
Organization of its agreement in principle to Jewish
settlement in East Africa “on conditions which will enable
members to observe their national customs.” The letter was
brought before the Sixth Zionist Congress at Basle on 26
August 1903, where it was decided to send an expedition
(“investigatory commission”) to examine the territory
proposed. This decision, passed by a majority of 295 in
favor and 178 against (with about 100 abstentions), led to
one of the fiercest controversies in the history of the
Zionist
Movement.

But as we read in fact settlement in east Africa where the Zionists took
settlement in Uganda seriously.

And when that failed …

Announcement from the Jewish Territorialist
Organization (ITO) in Kiev calling upon those
interested in emigration to Galverston, Texas, to apply
to the organization’s emigration bureau for further
information.

The Jewish Territorialist Organization (ITO) was formed as
a
result of the unification of various groups who had
supported
Herzl’s Uganda proposals during the period 1903-1905.
With the rejection of the East Africa project at the
Seventh
Zionist Congress, Nahum Syrkin and Israel Zangwill called
an alternative conference in order to continue the plan of
the
Uganda scheme.

The fortunes of the movement depended to no small degree
on the seriousness of antisemitism on the one hand and the
failure of the political dimension of Zionist activity on
the
other. So, for example, the movement’s ranks swelled
somewhat following the pogroms in 1905, but declined
considerably after the securing of the Balfour Declaration.

Zangwill became the movement’s undisputed leader. After
the rejection of the Uganda scheme on the grounds of
impracticability by the British, Zangwill turned his
attention to
settlement in Canada and Australia. But opposition from
local residents led him to abandon the scheme. Expeditions
were sent to Mesopotamia (Iraq), Cyrenaica (Libya) and
Angola but little came of these expeditions.

A project that had some concrete success was the
Galverston scheme which contemplated the settlement of
Jews in the American South-West, in particular in Texas.
The project received the assistance of Jacob Schiff, the
American Jewish banker, and some 9,300 Jews arrived in
that area between 1907 – 1914, through the Emigration
Bureau of the Territorialist organization.

With the publication of the Balfour Declaration the ITO
faced
a severe crisis since many of its members came to the
conclusion that Eretz-Israel was not so utopian after all.
The
organization’s failure was due to its inability to secure a
definite project, and its lack of sensitivity towards the
historic and traditional sentiments of Jewish identity.

Galveston Texas was close enough to the Promised Land to satisfy zionists.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
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http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 23:03:26 PDT 1996
Article: 68527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Does anyone have it?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:40:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51eoji$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]><51eoji$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <16SEP199620094[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Sep 1996 23:42:25 GMT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In message <[email protected]> –
>dmittlem[email protected] (Danny Mittleman)16 Sep 1996 20:09 MST
>writes:
>:>
>:>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…

>[some deleted]

>:>> As you know, no one ever expected a discussion of the holocaust until I got
>:>>here. This is a well known flame conference and it is well known that the
>:>>holohuggers start the flaming.
>:>
>:> Actually, there were many less flames before Giwer got here. In fact,
>:> several fidonet regulars have reported that this has been true in many
>:> conferences for a long time. Giwer, apparently, is a troubled
>:> individual who shows up, causes trouble, and gets his jollies from it.

>Correct. The real way he gets his jollies is to get everyone in the echo so
>annoyed, they can’t stand each other, and then to get himself booted by the
>moderator. Typical gutless approach. That’s why he’s particularly annoyed
>lately; he has–in a rare moment of clarity–realized that this newsgroup does
>not have moderators. Ergo: no one to toss him and thus, the cornerstone of
>his methodology is skewered.

And you are the best of all, McFly. There is truly no one in there. You
respond to what I write and then blame me for making you respond. “He made me
hit him!”

You are truly the juvenile you appeared to be the first time I read your posts.

And still you blame me for making you respond.

Learn self control. It is something holohuggers are in great need of.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 23:03:27 PDT 1996
Article: 68531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: NNTP Threat By Alec Grynspan
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:17:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:68531 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:93720

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:21:19 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) writes:

>! n> Ha, ha, ha!! My activities are within the criteria for spamming
>! n> according to the JEM Cancelbot. However, you have set your own
>! n> standards for your own activities.
>!
>! The GRYN cancelbot, on the other hand, is a different story.
>!
>! Ever hear of the UPD?

>FidoNet NET250 (GRYN-DOM)
> 152 McMorran Crescent
> Thornhill, Ontario
> L4J 2Y2
> Canada

> Domain Name: GRYN.ORG

> Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
> Grynspan, Alec (AG50) [email protected]
> 905-889-3995

> Record last updated on 05-Jan-95.
> Record created on 01-Nov-94.

> Domain servers in listed order:

> NS.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.1
> NS.UU.NET 137.39.1.3

If you have a problem, post your complaints to

[email protected]

which hosts gryn.org on the internet. You can also include the following

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

as they provide the name service.

If you should get a mailbomb be certain to forward a copy of every one of them
to all involved but precede it with the complaint about it.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 23:07:50 PDT 1996
Article: 44538 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.flame,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:18:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 107
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51uiq2$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vkv9$3uk@news.enter.net> <[email protected]> <3244f57b.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:44538 alt.politics.scorched-earth:568 alt.flame:26350 alt.usenet.kooks:29408

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:58:06 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 08:17:43 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
>wrote:

>#[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>#
>#
>#
>#> Where are the publications on gassing?
>#
>#So predictable.
>#
>#Asks for historians, gets historians. Changes request to historian who
>#wrote on gassing.
>#
>#I’ve already predicted the next step.
>#
>#Will Giwer now ask for the historians’ credentials in chemistry?
>#
>#You betcha.

>Perhaps Mr. Giwer can provide us with the credentials of revisionist
>scholars?

>But, I am sure he won’t. After all,

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====
Sources of information that holohuggers never mention
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 00:04:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coffee Alert!: (was: Goyim are scum)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:11:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3242af9b[email protected]> <51uqgl$g[email protected]> <32436929.6[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:28:44 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>> There numerous passages were the “seed” is referred to. The
>>genetic lineage of the biblical names are constantly being reviewed.
>>The Bible consistently refers to god as being their god. The Bible
>>states the Jews can do this or that to the gentile but not to another
>>Jew.

>Which God? Yahweh or Elohim?

Yahweh was one of the Elohim. Was that supposed to be a trick question?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 01:57:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68563 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!umcc.umich.edu!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:59:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32440[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 19:41:15 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:

>> > Details are in the pudding, but Belling/Blackmore never provides any.

>> Mike-please stop telling people I do not provide. I will provide when asked.

>Pardon my french, but this is a load of bull. You NEVER provided me
>anything, and I have asked you countles times.

>In a recent email, later posted to the Usenet, you made the following claim
>about the SWC:

>”What do you say to the fact that many Jewish publications also quoted
>this 4,000,000 figure for YEARS until the research made primarily by
>revisionist scholars embarrassed the hell out of them. Why did the Simon
>Wiesenthal Center keep silent on this figure until recently? Could MONEY
>have anything to do with it?”

>You have yet to answer the following questions without prevarication:

>(1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding the SWC
>(2) where is the proof for the following:
> (a) that the SWC promoted the figure of 4 million knowing it was wrong
> (b) that this was done for money
>(3) when you can’t provide that proof, you are requested to revist part
>1 and supply the truth.

>[snip]
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

Anyone want to explain this one?

” It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were built
in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the people were
being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and then driven to the
building where the floor was electrified in a special way; there they were
killed. ”

IMT VII – p.576-577.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 01:57:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is there no revisionist version of Nizkor?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:08:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Sep 1996 18:21:10 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> Do you not consider the Zundelsite as a reasonable presenter of the
>> truth, in opposition to the Holohoaxers?

> No.

So?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:51 PDT 1996
Article: 68596 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:20:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:46:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>The funniest thing about Moran’s article is actually not
>the content (which is as ridiculous as anything he posts),
>but the fact that the world’s most famous “Holocaust
>revisionist”, Ernst Zundel, believes that the Nazi
>leadership escaped Germany in “secret UFO’s”, and used
>them to fly to the inner earth, via “a hole in the
>South-Pole”. The nut even claimed to have met some of
>the “German scientists” who “built the UFO’s” (!!).

>The “revisionists” try to apologize for this by saying
>that Zundel only published his UFO material “for
>publicity”…

>What a bunch of crazed idiots, each and every one of them.

>-Danny Keren.

About what is expected from a traitorous jew.
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:51 PDT 1996
Article: 68598 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:18:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3244185d[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:00:38 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <843[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>
>> [email protected] “tom moran” writes:
>>
>> >
>> > The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
>> > “eyewitness” accounts of what they saw.
>> >
>> > UFO stories are largely based on “eyewitness” accounts of what
>> > they saw.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Why aren’t people who question UFOs branded anti-Semitic?

>Because, Al, skepticism of UFO claims has nothing to to with anti-Semitism?

>Duh.

>Leave it to an anti-Semite like you (and those like you), Al, to try and
>equate the two so you can white-wash anti-Semitism….

>How pathetic. Really.

Both UFOs and holocaust gassing are based upon testimony without physical
evidence. But you know that.

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:52 PDT 1996
Article: 68601 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of the Twentieth Century
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:43:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:32:19 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> The Political Struggle in Europe in the First Half of
>> the Twentieth Century
>>
>> From Versailles to Nuremberg
>>
>> by
>>
>> Matt Giwer
>>

>Instead of composing long fantasies like this one, why not answer some of
>the questions put to you in the past, Mr. Giwer?
>
>How many bones in the head?
>Where was the Cambodian Embassy in Washington during the Vietnam War?
>Is something “proved” by evidence or lack of evidence?

Why not stop demonstrated your sex is nothing but airheads?

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68603 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:34:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 197
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:14:05 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Never forget what you’re dealing with here.

> Giwer wants to kill people who disagree
> with him about historical facts
> —————————————

>Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
>in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from
>his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
>says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to
>kill me himself.

>Score one for “revisionist support for freedom of speech”.

>Needless to say, no “revisionist” has denounced Giwer
>for all of this.

> From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
> Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

>[Giwer writes to me]

># Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
># first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
># US above all others.

> From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
> Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

># Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and
># a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
># the US.
>#
># The curse is upon him.
>#
># He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
># Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
># security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
># are no loyal Americans.
>#
># They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
>#
># Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.

> From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
> Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

>[Giwer writes to me]

># May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your
># apart. May you know death from drowning.

># And may you live to suffer all again and again until the
># end of time and from then into eternity.

>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: At least part of the Degesh publication
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:06:14 GMT

I wonder if the ten hour ventilation time has anything to do with the
long promised Degesh pub not showing up before.

Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication

History

As long as 80 years ago it was recognized that hydrocyanic acid could be
useful in pest control
but it took half this time to popularize the method.

Deficiencies and disadvantages had first of all to be eliminated from
the method of application.
First this had been done in such a way that hydrocyanic acid was no more
developed on the spot
by mixing cyanides and acid, but this process already took place in the
factory: The so-called “pot
method” was replaced by liquid hydrocyanic acid. The few deficiencies of
this procedure were
removed in the early twenties by the ZYKLON method: One added liquid HCN
to a “carrier
substance”, thus simplifying handling whilst all favourable properties
of liquid HCN were
maintained. At the same time, danger to the operator was reduced to a
minimum. Hydrocyanic
acid in the form of ZYKLON can be safely stored for considerable periods
and under all climatic
conditions, any quantity of gas can be easily measured, quickly and
cleanly released. Any
residures are completely harmless.

Composition

In ZYKLON pure (98%-99%) liquid hydrocyanic acid is chemically
stabilized and absorbed in a
porous, inert material. It is supplied in snippets or discs prepared
>from wood pulp. Snippets
generally are preferred as in view of their larger surface they give off
the gas more rapidly. Upon
request also discs can be supplied. The aborbent material can easily be
collected at the end of
the fumigation.

Packing

ZYKLON is packed in handy, gas-tight tins of various sizes which are
packed in strong wooden
cases. One case, measuring 72 x 50 x 36 cm contains:

Imperial – units 16 tins, each containing 40 ozs. HCN – total 40 lbs HCN
or 30 tins, each
containing 16 ozs. HCN – total 30 lbs HCN.

Toxicity

No thoroughly effective pesticide is known to exist which could be
considered to be harmless to
human beings or mammals. Fatal concentrations of HCN impede or
completely cut off the oxygen
supply to the cells. The poison can enter the body in three ways:
through the mouth, the respiratory
organs, or the pores of the skin. The latter will occur in particular if
the body is exposed to high
concentration for any length of time and in unfavourable conditions
(great heat).

Methods

Prior to fumigation, the tins must be distributed about the building.
The tins are opened, and the
ZYKLON is scattered so as to reach even the remotest parts of the
building. If this is done
correctly the gas will develop evenly and instantaneously throughout the
premises. Spaces difficult
to reach may be charged separately. In multi-storied buildings one
begins with the top floor, and
then works towards the exit, taking care that nobody re-enters rooms
already charged. Even
under mask protection it is not advisable to expose oneself to the gas
more than is absolutely
necessary. The exit door is sealed after everybody has left the
building; warning notices must be
put up before gassing commences and a guard placed near the building to
prevent unauthorised
persons from entering. Time of exposure depends on the type of pests to
be attacked; for the
destruction of the various types of moths and their pre-adult stages 24
hours will suffice, against
other kinds of insect pests one should fumigate for 48 hours. If there
are any dense stowages or
bulkss of commodities to penetrate, the time of exposure may need to be
extended to 72 hours.

Ventilation

During this operation gas-masks must be worn. The ventilation takes
place in the reverse
direction to the gassing. All windows near the entrance are opened
first, then gradually those in
the rest of the building. It is advisable to work only for 10 to 15
minutes at a time and then to make
interruptions of half an hour, as a precaution against skin poisoning.

Depending on concentration, outdoor tempature and weather conditions,
ventilation will take at
least 10 hours. Clearing of tins and residues may be commenced before
the end of airing.
Windows and doors must remain open, and gas-masks kept available. ZYKLON
tins and
absorbent material must always be collected and cleared away before the
resumption of work.

Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication

=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:54 PDT 1996
Article: 68604 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:50:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:34:25 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Having considered the entire layout in both aerial picture and schematic, it is
>>unclear where one could mount guard towers to prevent escape no matter what
>>their construction and height. First off the entire compound is not rectangular
>>so such that no tower could have an unobstructed field of fire. There would
>>necessarily be huge gaps in coverage.

>Having considered the arguments of the Revisionist Brain Trust,
>represented by Messrs. Giwer and Allen, it is unclear as to why
>Birkenau was surrounded by guard towers and electrified barbed wire at
>all.

>Clearly, the Brain Trust will have to conclude that the inmates of
>Birkenau were in the camp of their own free will and that the wire and
>towers were there to keep someone out. I wonder who?

>Naturally, I face the possibility of this conclusion with some
>trepidation: some of the rest of us may sustain an injury from
>laughing too hard.

In other words you have no idea how the camp was laid out and have no idea what
you are laughing at other than a hebaphrenic fit.

=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68606 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get a look at this idiot
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:58:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:51:20 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> > From: [email protected]
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > cc: [email protected]
>>
>> So, Mr. Giwer…
>>
>> are you finally ADMITTING that you’re no longer at Netcom?
>>
>> Why do you continue to claim Netcom as your address? Too stupid to
>> reconfigure your e-mail address?

>It isn’t stupidity. It is deliberate. He changed it to
>[email protected] and then changed it back (verification of this may
>be seen at Deja News when doing a filtered search for
>[email protected] – that’s how I found out exactly what his new
>e-mail address is), although for what reason only an imbecile would know.

Are you a JAP too?
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:56 PDT 1996
Article: 68618 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Get your FREE copy today!
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:34:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 22 Sep 1996 19:53:26 GMT, [email protected] (Milton Kleim) wrote:

>Get your **FREE** copy of the most hateful work written in modern times,
>the book many believe inspired the atrocity of the Oklahoma City bombing.

>William L. Pierce, Ph.D., the author, thinks you’re supposed to PAY for
>his hateful book. Someone has seen to it you don’t have to.

>You owe it to yourself to understand how and why the White Nationalist
>”movement” can do what it does. Only by understanding what the White Power
>fanatics believe can they be overcome. I used to be one — I understand
>all too well.

>Normally $12, available to you free of charge at:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1406/

Thank you.

It has been reported.
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:56 PDT 1996
Article: 68623 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:34:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 175
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:12:51 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

> Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
> Which Does Not Exist
> ——————–

>Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
>fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

>Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
>order to “prove” that testimonies of survivors are a “lie”.

>Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is
>trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such
>gassing, in order to “prove” that this witness was lying.

>Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
>he can’t. Note that his only response to this reasonable
>request is to spam the group by reposting something totally
>unrelated.

>But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
>miserable liar like Giwer.

>-Danny Keren.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: At least part of the Degesh publication
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:06:14 GMT

I wonder if the ten hour ventilation time has anything to do with the
long promised Degesh pub not showing up before.

Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication

History

As long as 80 years ago it was recognized that hydrocyanic acid could be
useful in pest control
but it took half this time to popularize the method.

Composition

Packing

ZYKLON is packed in handy, gas-tight tins of various sizes which are
packed in strong wooden
cases. One case, measuring 72 x 50 x 36 cm contains:

Imperial – units 16 tins, each containing 40 ozs. HCN – total 40 lbs HCN
or 30 tins, each
containing 16 ozs. HCN – total 30 lbs HCN.

Toxicity

Methods

Ventilation

Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication

=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
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http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:57 PDT 1996
Article: 68624 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel murdered again
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:36:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Sep 1996 05:05:46 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: ========
>:
>: Indignation of an Israeli Writer: Ari Shavit

>But Matt–I thought JOOS all agreed on everything.

>: Ari Shavit/Haaretz/New York Times Syndication. Ari Shavit is a writer and
>: columnist of the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. He lives in Jerusalem.
>: (Translated from Hebrew in “Liberation” of May 21, 1996

>But Matt–I thought Israelis didn’t speak Hebrew…

I said about 1 in a 100 speak it. Now you are talking about reading it. Want
to go for idiot of year?
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:58 PDT 1996
Article: 68625 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel murdered again
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:38:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <524[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:10:37 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> Ari Shavit/Haaretz/New York Times Syndication. Ari Shavit is a writer and
>> columnist of the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. He lives in Jerusalem. (Translated
>> from Hebrew in “Liberation” of May 21, 1996.)

>That is distinctly odd. I could have sworn Giwer said that no one in
>Israel used Hebrew except in religious worship.

I said that 1 in 100 SPEAK it.

You are truly a deliberate liar.

But then, you are also a holohugger so it was already known that you are a liar.

=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68628 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:48:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Sep 1996 22:38:07 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Tales told ’round the campfire or at the family hearth are fertile
>>ground not only for exaggeration but also become comingled with childhood
>>learning experiences such as “don’t put your hand in the fire.” In youth such
>>stories become intrinsic to the personality.

> This must be pap-psychology.

>> It is tales of danger that are the last to go. Consider how little it
>>takes to stop believing in Santa Claus but how much it takes to lose fear of
>>the dark, being alone, monsters and demons.

> Huh??? This is getting asinine!

> I don’t believe in any supernatural beings – there’s no evidence for
>them that convinces me.*

>> Consider for the poor holohuggers it is like growing up in the dark
>>ages. As children they are taught to fear witches but as they grow up the
>>stories continue rather than diminish. As they grow up they do not learn
>>about Bram Stocker and Bela Legosi but rather continue to hear that the
>>stories are true.

> And who, pray tell, are the **”Bram Stocker”s and **”Bela Legosi”s of
>the Holocaust?

Those who invent stories of satanic laughter of pilots that can be heard over
the sound of their engines and other “eyewitnesses” the people like McVay swear
are telling the complete truth.
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68632 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Lies
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:00:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 05:10:22 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:

>Jews are no more interested in power than whites.

Are they really that interested?

From what is posted here you would think they are inhuman and uninterested.

=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:39:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68635 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald heads and all
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:26:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:10:58 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

> The Chuckle Fairy writes:

>These guys can’t make any kind of a case. So they do their tap
>dancing,
>Chuckles

Have a good yank.
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:39:01 PDT 1996
Article: 68637 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get a look at this idiot
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:58:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:07:40 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> From: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> cc: [email protected]

>So, Mr. Giwer…
>
>are you finally ADMITTING that you’re no longer at Netcom?
>
>Why do you continue to claim Netcom as your address? Too stupid to
>reconfigure your e-mail address?
>
>Sara

>–
>”I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler

Only a JAP is so stupid as to have to ask.
=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:39:01 PDT 1996
Article: 68638 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Impressions of the evidence and the reality
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:43:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:05:11 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Impressions of the evidence and the reality
>>
>> by
>>
>> Matt Giwer
>Instead of composing long fantasies like this one, why not answer some of
>the questions put to you in the past, Mr. Giwer?
>
>How many bones in the head?
>Where was the Cambodian Embassy in Washington during the Vietnam War?
>Is something “proved” by evidence or lack of evidence?

Silly goose. Leave the thinking for men. Women are obviously not up to it.

=====
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From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:39:02 PDT 1996
Article: 68649 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Eastern European Style of Truth
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 07:49:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 242
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The Eastern European Style of Truth

This is a rather nebulous and unclear point to make about
the holocaust but one that needs be mentioned at least in
passing. And that is the “allegoric” or “poetic” style of
recounting an event. Specifically that there is a wide
divergence between what western and eastern Europe consider a
truthful recounting, even in court.

What this means in practice is that the western “tell me
about” is about the same as the eastern “tell me a story about.”
In both cases there is an expectation, the former closest to the
Aristotilian facts and in the latter the closest story to the
facts.

Of course this is also the traditional method of
communication that is decades out of style today. But when
people were telling stories of the Nazi occupation of Eastern
Europe it was the way to communicate.

This is not to suggest that one could not get a factual
account from the east or a story from the west. This is to point
out the different means of communication and relative emphasis on
factual and allegorical contributions to the recounting.

And one more point before continuing. The western European
approach was rather hard won from the world. And the Eastern
European was not limited to the names geographers gave to the
continents. That means that the Near East of Asia and Eastern
Europe are simply variations of the same way of thinking.

And I will point out that realizing there is more than one
way to think is quite difficult. To help you realize this,
consider how few “westerners” are committed to analytic thought
and how many install beliefs over what they observe and learn.
In the “east” the difference is in the quality, the best fit, for
the allegory.

That was a long build up. What it means is that eastern
communication is meant to convey feeling not facts. And that it
is an error to take such stories as facts or even related to
facts. They are related to feelings.

This kind of thinking has always been common. Consider the
old stories of a great man’s death, something miraculous would
happen. The sun would come out at night or the stars would shine
at noon. The intent was never a literal description but rather
to convey the magnitude of the feelings of the writer.

With this we come to Eastern European stories of Nazi
occupation. It felt terrible. Therefore stories conveying the
feeling were the norm.

Where a westerner might say, “It was as terrible as if they
had shot my entire family,” an easterner would say, “They shot my
entire family,” and mean the same event. You can see this in the
occupation where the same troops, acting under the same orders
and in the face of the same provocation are reported, to the
western mind, to have acted entirely differently in the east and
west.

Where in the west we have retaliation against partisans,
Aristotilian cause and effect, in the east the same people show
up and commit unprovoked (causeless) attrocities. In the west
they are portrayed as over-reacting or acting rashly while in the
east they act out of personal malice, personal evil. In the west
there was a system to their actions, in the east all was chaos,
irrational acts that did not have to make sense to the western
mind.

What we fail to note in the west is that “they killed 8000
in a single night” is the same as “they killed 8 good people
fighting for their country” in the west. The western tragedy of
good people dying in a noble cause hurts. In the east that hurt
is told as a story to convey the magnitude of that hurt.

In like manner, killing the community leaders is retold and
destroying the community. It is the same story when the leaders
are from the traditional families and not elected. When a ghetto
is said to be liquidated that means its leadership was removed.

If you understand what I am getting at there is no need for
me to go further. If you do not I can only say that I am working
on the larger essays to explain it. Bear with me until a later
date.

But if you have followed me, you can see why there is such
emotional support for holocaust stories, they are told by people
who think in terms of stories to communicate feelings. The
holohuggers are living on the communication of the feelings while
fighting the rational interpretation of the context of the
stories.

From here we can go to any number of holocaust stories and
show how this pervades them. We know almost all of them came
geographically from eastern europe and the rest can be researched
as to people from that region.

Take for example evil/demonic/satanic/maniacal laughter
ingredient, the forced naked dancing and singing, the playing of
“german” music. These stories come from the same people that
preserved the legends from which western authors drew the
inspiration for their stories of vampires and werewolves. That
in itself should be enough to damn the stories of eastern
europeans.

The ingredients come from stories of witches’ sabboths.
Mussorgsky pulled Night on Bald Mountain right out of their
legends with all the elements of legend that Campbell missed as
he was searching for the hero. There are no heros in a culture
devoted to superstition and all pervasive evil as was
superstitious eastern europe. There was only the occasional
stand against eternal darkness with his reward in heaven —
meaning he died in the process.

And into this came the Nazis almost volunteering to fit the
mold of legend. Consider the pervasive belief that they were not
only anti-Christian but intent upon bringing back the pagan gods.
If anyone has not known simple people with simple superstitions
you have no idea of the power of that belief.

I have experienced such people. One told me she was going
to see “The Exorcist” to study on it. It was clear she believed
it was true and thought she was going to learn from it. If you
have the opportunity to deal with such people, do not pass it up
but bite your tongue or the clam up.

So here are people who are said to be reviving worship of
Odin. In Christian mythology, all of the “false” gods are satan
himself. That meant that all Nazis were followers of Satan in
the mind of these superstitious eastern europeans.

And surprise, surprise, they told stories of the Nazis that
paralleled stories of Satan and witchcraft. How could anyone be
surprised by that?

And what if there were any qualms about not quite telling
the truth? They were worshippers of Satan were they not?
Knowing that then everything “known” about worshippers of Satan
was also true, whether or not they observed it because that was
the way Satan worshippers were.

And how could such contrived stories appear overnight?
Clearly they did not. They occurred over years, four to eight
years if physical occupation is the criteria. If threat is the
criteria eight years is the minimum. If propaganda is the
criteria, then the communists were pushing it from around 1925
making it twenty years.

In even one year most anything is possible in human belief
given the rumor mill. It is not as though there was an evening
news covering the occupied territories every night on TV. The
people had shortwave radios at best. And the small towns and
farmers that dominated eastern Europe have few of those and there
is where the rumors grew.

And the human tendency to embellish rumors with the story
telling means of expression lead to the testimony to the
holocaust. If looked at in the entirety they are rehashed
witchcraft stories. If compared to each other they are mutually
exclusive. If looked at individually they recount the
impossible.

And all of this leads to the melodramatic story-telling
level of the holocaust stories. As the inspiration for vampires
and werewolves came from the east so too the stories of the
holocaust. The same ingredients exist in all the stories.

The difference is that the current story-tellers insist upon
the literal truth of eastern European stories in the western
sense of literal truth when in fact nothing of the kind was
either intended or understood by the eastern story-tellers.

In that regard, 60,000 which is a reasonable number, is
exaggerated to convey the depth of feeling to 6 million which is
also reasonable but in a different context.

Emphasis is given to the burning, as in hell fire, as in
witchcraft bonfires. A crematoria, burning, is considered
synonimous with gassing. Even when they were buried first they
must be dug up and burned. For such superstitous people
disturbing the dead by digging them up was an equal evil that let
loose satanic evil upon the land.

Is not disturbing the dead a factor in horror movies even
today? And the Jewish factor? Jews must be buried intact to the
point where an autopsy is prohibited. Burning? They can not be
resurrected or whateve they expected. It was the ultimate evil.

But then as the eastern european jews were converts their
beliefs paralleled the christian majority. All believed in this
superstition. It was hardly twenty years ago that the Roman
Catholic Church took off the ban against cremation.

It is difficult for western minds to comprehend pure
superstition and allegoric thought as a way of life, as a means
of perceiving and interpreting events. It is so difficult that
it takes decades of paying attention to perception to even notice
the differences as there is no sharp demarcation line but rather
a slow gradation with bumps along the way.

Nor do I claim to be the first to notice this. It has been
around for centuries. It has simply been impolite to discuss it
for so long that the basic difference has been forgotten. Not
only impolite but the eastern and western have sought political
compromise in adopting a little of each so that it is not clear
to average observer that the difference exists.

For political purposes eastern and western countries give
each other a public nod. Israel, as a known example, will
portray Palestinians throwing stones as evil as worthy of lethal
response because stones are lethal. But when the orthodox stone
people going to a movie on the Sabboth it is understandable for
religious reasons.

Obviously both are religious issues, but victim status must
be portrayed on one hand and internal disagreements on the other.
Similarly, the eastern european stories hold that the jews were
innocent victims while the other 6 million did something to
deserve it, save for a couple hundred thousand gypsies of course.

The stories of the holocaust were not told with the
intention of being taken literally. In fact the tellers had no
concept of literal truth as do westerns. They were, at the same
time, telling the story in the eastern sense and lying in the
western sense.

That is our holocaust. It is no different than saying the
sun stood still when the great man died. It was intended to be
the stuff of legends in the telling of the story.

The literal truth of it is left for the analytic western
mind

The Aktion Reinhard Death Camps

Auschwitz Birkenau

Bergen-Belsen

Buchenwald

Chelmno

Dachau

Maidanek (Majdanek)

Mauthausen

Nordhausen

Belzec

Treblinka

Mittelbau Dora

Gusen

Westerbork

Matthias Giwer

John Hron

Ken McVay

Steve Thomas

Fairview Technologies

Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood: Islamic Extremists and the…

The Heritage Front

The Anti-Defamation League

Giwer Matt, 5-1996 – p5