From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 10:08:37 PDT 1996
Article: 43695 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: White MEN Created Everything
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:05:27 GMT
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:44:28 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(william c anderson) wrote:
>> Allan Matthews ([email protected]) wrote:
>> : In article
>(Bryan Cowan) wrote:
>> : >In article
>> : >[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>> :
>> : >> > > 19. monotheism
>> : >Jews (gasp!) 😉
>> :
>> : No, it was the Egyptians (King Tut’s dad)
>>
>>
>> Ahknaten, the originators of Zoroastrianism, and the Jews came up
>> with monotheism independently, and more or less comtemporaneously.
>> The Egyptians, however, abandoned it almost at once.
>>
>> Bill
>Sorry folks, Bill’s correct.
>
>Freud wrote an amusing book called “Moses and Monotheism” in which he
>postulated that the jews living in Egypt “taught” Ahkenaten monotheism.
>
>He was only off by a couple of hundred years or so. And he was incorrect.
He was a thousand years off and 400 miles away. There is no reason to believe
that the Hebrews were even in Egypt or that there was ever a Moses and all the
evidence is to the contrary, not to mention that the Hebrews were polytheists at
least until 600 BC and to by some evidence hundreds of years afterwards.
Other than that, Freud was “close.”
>There is an entire school of thought that states that Ahkenaten was NOT,
>in fact, a monotheist, since he went to such great lengths to persecute
>the priests of Amum and other gods. The theory is that he believed that
>Aten was better and stronger than the other gods. Therefore, not a
>monotheist at all, a polythiest who likes HIS god better than the others.
>
>Sorry for the off-topic post. In college, I wrote a paper about this
>subject entitled “Why Freud Was Wrong.” 🙂
You missed the obvious reason, that the Hebrews were never in Egypt and were not
monotheists.
Other than that, you were close.
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 12:05:34 PDT 1996
Article: 66630 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: physical evidence
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:32:13 GMT
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The holohuggers are getting rather desparate here.
For months they have tried to distract the discussion from the complete and
total lack of any physical evidence of gassing during the holocaust. They do
not want it discussed that not one bit of physical evidence of gassing was
presented at Nuremberg.
They do not want it well known that every bit of the gassing is based upon the
same eyewitnesses who swore to mass executions by steam, electrocution and
suffocation.
Their problem is if they admit there is not and has never been any physical
evidence presented then they have to deal with all the evidence being from
witnesses who swore under oath to all kinds of impossible things, such as
burning people without fuel, infecting them people with cancer, being gassed six
times and living to tell about it and the like.
Their “best” gambit so far has been to pretend that there is no physical
evidence of the firebombing of Dresden. In doing so they claim that all the
documentation of the planning, the inventory records, personnel assignments,
bomb camera films, damage assessment films and hundreds of other things are not
physical evidence. The physical evidence of Dresden is so complete that it
could be reconstructed without one bit of testimony.
Rather they would pretend that everything that is known about Dresden depends
upon eyewitness accounts. Of course, only holohugger is dumb enough to believe
such a thing. Everyone else knows better, even they know better.
But when the purpose is to preserve holocaust belief, those who promote is are
willing to lie and to attempt to mislead anyone who points out the truth. It is
not surprising that so many of the holohuggers are stereotyped as liars and
deceivers.
It also clear that those who depend upon eyewitnesses only put their holocaust
in the same category as UFO abductions and witchcraft. Neither have any
physical evidence, both depend upon eye witness reports only, just like the
holocaust.
But even worse than witnesses at Nuremberg swearing to impossible things, we
find that only a few of these witnesses ever appeared in court. Nor was there
testimony introduced as sworn affidavits. They were generally simple typed
documents in some language, with or without a translation, and they were
accepted by the court and the defense was not permitted to object.
Thus we have so much court accepted “evidence” of the impossible.
But above all, there is no physical evidence of gassing and none was introduced
at Nuremberg. This is the clear fact that holohuggers want to hide at all
costs. Pointing out the lack clearly puts UFO abductions and witchcraft in the
same category as their favorite gassing.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 12:28:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66632 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Evil political agenda of the Nazis
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:59:28 GMT
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The Party Platform of the National Socialist German
Workers Party
( []s contain the comments of the author of this article.)
—–
Hamburg Order Police and 1933 Deutschland Erwache
The Twenty-Five Points Of The National Socialist German
Workers’ Party, 1920
The program of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party is
limited as to period. The leaders have no intention, once the
aims announced in it have been achieved, of setting up fresh
ones, merely in order to increase the discontent of the masses
artificially, and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.
[Would that all political parties had such an objective.]
1) We demand the union of all Germans to form a Greater Germany
on the basis of the right of self-determination enjoyed by
nations.
[The return of the parts of Germany given to other countries
such as Poland. Note that it was in defense of that give away
the England declared war on Germany.]
2) We demand equality of rights for the German people in its
dealings with other nations, and abolition of the peace treaties
of Versailles and Saint-Germain.
[This is a just objective regardless of the means of
abolition.]
3) We demand land and territory (colonies) for the nourishment of
our people and for settling our excess population.
[The major powers had colonies. Germany had African
colonies prior to the war. It was the norm at the time.]
4) None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state.
None but those of German blood, whatever their creed, may be
members of the nation. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the
nation.
[Here we get to the racial basis for citizenship. It was
perhaps somewhat extreme for the times but not remarkably so in
comparison to other countries. For example, Hitler remained a
soldier for ten years as he, an Austrian, could not gain German
citizenship until after those ten years of residency.]
5) Anyone who is not a citizen of the state may live in Germany
only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign
laws.
[This is as Hitler lived in Germany for those ten years. It
was not something all that new.]
6) The right of voting on the leadership and legislation is to be
enjoyed by the state alone. We demand therefore that all official
appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the
country, or in the smaller localities, shall be granted to
citizens of the state alone. We oppose the corrupting custom of
Parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party
considerations, and without reference to character or capacity.
[The first item is generally the rule in every country
today, citizenship is a requirement of government employment. The
last sentence is again something that all political parties
should consider as an objective.]
7) We demand that the state shall make it its first duty to
promote the industry and livelihood of citizens of the state. If
it is not possible to nourish the entire population of the state,
foreign nationals (non-citizens of the state) must be excluded
>from the Reich.
[Which of course is perfectly reasonable, that the state
exists for its citizens rather than for non-citizens.
8) All non-German immigration must be prevented….
[Nothing onerous here, simply a matter of national
immigration policy which is the right of every country.]
9) All citizens of the state shall be equal as regards rights and
duties.
[Perfectly normal.]
10) It must be the first duty of each citizen of the state to
work with his mind or with his body. The activities of the
individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but
must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the
general good.
[A fine statement of principle but it is open to abuse in
that it puts the government in arbitrary control over individual
actions and obviously it is the only basis upon which a
dictatorship can legally exist.]
WE DEMAND THEREFORE:
11) Abolition of incomes not earned by work.
[A clearly communist plank as it prevents income from rents
and investments.]
12) In view of the enormous sacrifice of life and property
demanded of a nation by every war, personal enrichment because of
a war must regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand
therefore ruthless confiscation of all war gains.
[War profiteering is a crime in every country. In this case
it was extended to cover the post war investments with foreign
currency during post war hyperinflationary times. In other
words, the purchases were retroactively abolished. It is a coin
toss as to whether this is reasonable but it is certainly open to
abuse.]
13) We demand nationalization of all businesses (trusts)….
[Another Marxist concept.]
14) We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be
shared.
[Again, a Marxist idea, giving the government control of all
import and export business.]
15) We demand extensive development of provision for old age.
[Ah, yes, social securtiy. Their system was the model for
the US system down to the means of paying for it and the
retriement age. Just how evil were these folks?]
16) We demand creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class,
immediate communalization of wholesale business premises, and
their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that extreme
consideration shall be shown to all small purveyors to the state,
district authorities, and smaller localities.
[While giving the government control of the wholesale
business, it promotes the small businessman. As Hitler noted he
considered himself a practical implementer of marxism. It would
appear he realized that control of ten of thousands of small
businesses would be too hard. The US exempts small businesses
>from it regulations also. Rather enlighted that.]
17) We demand land reform suitable to our national
requirements….
[Clearly Marxist.]
18) We demand ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are
injurious to the common interest. Sordid criminals against the
nation, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished by death,
whatever their creed or race.
[This sounds a touch similar to the FDR’s National Recovery
Act although the punishment was not so extreme.]
19) We demand that the Roman Law, which serves the materialistic
world order, shall be replaced by a legal system for all Germany.
[Revamping the legal system was long overdue.]
20) With the aim of opening to every capable and industrious
German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining
advancement, the state must consider a thorough reconstruction of
our national system of education….
[Universal higher education. Nothing very insidious there.]
21) The state must see to raising the standard of health in the
nation by protecting mothers and infants, prohibiting child
labor, increasing bodily efficiency by obligatory gymnastics and
sports laid down by law, and by extensive support of clubs
engaged in the bodily development of the young.
[Although the gynamstics appear a bit arcane, the rest could
be right from Hillary Cliton.]
22) We demand abolition of a paid army and formation of a
national army.
[That sounds like the Founding Fathers of the US and their
abhorrance of standing armies. They got the abhorance from
England.]
23) We demand legal warfare against conscious political lying and
its dissemination in the press. In order to facilitate creation
of a German national press. In order to facilitate creation of a
German national press we demand:
a) that all editors of newspapers and their assistants, employing
the German language, must be members of the nation;
b) that special permission from the state shall be necessary
before non-German newspapers may appears. These are not
necessarily printed in the German language;
c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participation
financially in or influencing German newspapers….
It must be forbidden to publish papers which do not conduce to
the national welfare. We demand legal prosecution of all
tendencies in art and literature of a kind likely to disintegrate
our life as a nation, and the suppression of institutions which
militate against the requirements above-mentioned.
[Of course this lead to government censorship of the news.
But prohibiting foreign ownership … Rupert Murdoch had to
become a US citizen in order to grow his broadcasting empire. It
is unclear what might be wrong with the principle.]
24) We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the
state, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate
against the moral feelings of the German race. The Party, as
such, stand for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself
in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats
the Jewish-materialist spirit within us and without us….
[So here we have the first clear statement that is against
jews in some manner. However, even today Germany collects taxes
to support the Lutheran Church, something that would have been
prohibited by the general policy of supporting any particular
religion.]
25) That all foregoing may be realized we demand the creation of
a strong central power of the state.
[And of course the worst of all, the basis for a
dictatorship. On the other hand, the Weimar Republic was so weak
as to ineffective that the call for strong has to be compared to
what existed at the time.]
Unquestioned authority of the politically centralized Parliament
over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of
chambers for classes and occupations for the purpose of carrying
out the general laws promulgated by the Reich in the various
states of the confederation.
[Note that in comparison to the Weimar Republic, this can be
construed as being no more than a call for a strong Federal
government as in the US even though it did go much further than
that.]
The leaders of the Party swear to go straight forward – if
necessary to sacrifice their lives – in securing fulfillment of
the foregoing points.
[Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors.]
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 15:16:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66640 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the – real ashes?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:31:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:21:27 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>>moran) wrote:
>>
>>[Moran’s drivel snipped]
>>
>>> The only evidence I recall is a room mentioned that held urns.
>>
>>Then you don’t “recall” much do you, Moran?
>>
>>Why don’t you refresh your memory by pointing your riggii at:
>>
>>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/burning-pits
> Oh no. Not a U R L. Not that.
> Okay Mr.VanAlstine, you got me.
> But wait a minute. Why don’t you just post it?
The intention is to artificially inflate their hits to impress contributors.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 15:16:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66641 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:25:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 16 Sep 1996 19:07:47 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>Thank you, Mr. Giwer, for posting the information regarding Hilberg’s
>qualifications as well as his admissions before the court during the
>course of the Zundel trial.
Some has to do it as this guy has been getting a free ride on that chair.
And we all know about Pressac the Pharamcist.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 16:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66654 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:20:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
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On 17 Sep 1996 17:28:19 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer
>>On Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:00:19 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In the Holocaust book “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp” we
>>>are given a photo with the caption: “Arrival and selection of
>>>Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, 1944. Credit: Yad Vashim, Jeruselem”.
>>
>> The “credit” should go to the photographer or his employer. In this
>>case the credit goes to Yad Vashim for the creative caption. Of
>>course it begs the questions, how do you know they are Jews? how do
>>you know they are Hungarian? and how do you know what is going on?
> This one is easy. Photos from “The Auschwitz Album” were found by a
>Hungarian Jewish survivor who came in on that train and recognized a
>number of people from her village. As for how one knows that people in
>such pictures are Jews, I guess Mr. Giwer’s steel-sieve memory has
>conveniently forgotten the fact that the Nazis required Jews to wear a
>Jewish star on their clothes identifying them as such.
So I ask you, were they Polaroids? First off we have the claim that the SS did
not allow photography. Then we have by chance a woman finding an album of
pictures taken of people on exactly the train she came in on but many years
later by pure chance. It also happens to have some people she can identify but
she declines to provide their names. And we further note that was a law for
German Jews and there are no stars on the clothing of people in those pictures.
Other than that, not a bad story.
> Confessed liar Matt Giwer never did bother to look at the pictures in
>the book before coming out with howlers such as that the people were
>probably heading for the stairs down from the train platform. (The
>platform is ground level, as he would have known had he looked.) He also
>maintained that people told by men with guns to walk along a road with
>barbed wire on both sides might decide to go off in any random direction
>instead, perhaps even straight through the barbed wire.
But we already know from the description of the picture that the men were headed
for the women’s camp. It is a very normal picture of very normal men. It was
good of so many people to give the layout of the camp and the description of the
picture to make that clear.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 17:01:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66659 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:21:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:14:37 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer), unemployed since he was
>46-years-old, writes:
># Why would I want a job? What would I do with it?
>I’m surprised at you, Matty. Don’t you know what that
>big sign in the entrance to Auschwitz said?
That was for gullible jews.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 17:01:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66660 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:33:46 GMT
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:32:03 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
># But the Cold War is over. We no longer need Israel to sell
># us captured Soviet weapons. And despite the fantasy, ALL
># captured weapons were sold, not given, to the US. It was
># always a matter of profit.
>Does anyone have an idea whether this is true? For instance,
>the Soviet radar stations, which Israeli commandos took from
>Egypt in 1971 or so, and the surface-to-air missiles captured
>in the 1967 war. Is the Giwer claiming that they were “sold”
>to the US? Or that Israel demanded money from the US for
>allowing Americans the right to study them?
>If so, there’s no doubt the Giwer will provide us a source
>for this claim?
It is very true. They never gave away a thing. In fact it is a centuries old,
world wide tradition to sell war booty.
There was a SAM that came down sort of intact during that little action to
destabilize Lebenon. The price was $20 million. And it was just big shipping
crates of small pieces.
It is also true Israel had to pay for the upgrades to their jammers to deal with
them.
You appear to think wars are run on charity and good will. How naive.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 17:13:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66661 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:40:42 GMT
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <519[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:27:48, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:
>In article
>>From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
>>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:10:33 GMT
>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>># He lies in calling it a mail bomb.
>>1) How large was it?
>>2) Why don’t you post it and we’ll decide if it was a mail
>> bomb or not?
>>3) Why don’t you GET A JOB, punk?
>Who would hire him, and why?
Who would I apply to and why?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 17:13:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66662 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stumpy is easily amazed.
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:39:48 GMT
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:25:29 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[snip]
>> Which is why Israel has not admitted it murder of the crew of the
>> Liberty of an the Palestinians in Qana.
>[incoherent Giwer .sig deleted]
>This of course, has absolutely no bearing on the FACT (as opposed to delusion,
>something with which you seem intimately familiar) that your impotent
>posterboy for hate, Hitler, and his Nazi throng, systematically set out to
>exterminate more than 6 million people, including Jews, Homosexuals,
>politicial prisoners (some of whom were imprisoned for taking it upon
>themselves to speak freely, I suppose), Gypsies, and any other
>Œundesireable¹ who didn¹t fit with the beady eyed, flatulent little troll
>(still taking about Hitler, not you) and his bland idea of Utopia.
>But then, as has been pointed out to you in the past, you are little more
>than an admitted troll:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
> – Giwer, Message-ID <[email protected]>
>Of course it gets worse – not only are you a troll, but you are a troll
>who resorts to continual lies, harassment, threats, and general
>prevarication in an attempt to deny what you know to be truth – you,
>little man, are completely devoid of anything resembling decency,
>morality, and integrity.
>For confirmation and reference, please examine the copious documentation
>available at
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 17:13:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66663 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:46:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On 17 Sep 1996 04:43 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 16 Sep 1996 11:33:36 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>>
>>>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>>[A few pointed questions deleted]
>>
>>>: Yours are fewer but still my agreement with Netcom prohibits me from
>>>: proving you an idiot in your questions.
>>
>>>I will confess that this is the first Usenet posting that has actually
>>>succeeded in making me laugh out loud in several months. Good work,
>>>Myshkin.
>>
>> Now you know that cheap insults always lead to the following.
>>
>> Whois Ken McVay?
> So? All it shows is that you have no substantive comeback to these
> posts. And that it is still early enough in the evening that you
> remember how to clip in saved text.
I do not bother coming back to cheap insults.
Nor do I bother giving different responses to the same mantras.
In either case and in some others I respond in any manner I choose, usually with
some form of attack upon some aspect of holohuggerism.
Do you have a problem with that?
At least two can play the game.
If mantras and cheap insults are going to dominate this conference then I will
do my best to both irritate and imitate the folks doing it.
I hope that is clear.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 18:21:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66666 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:46:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 396
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On 17 Sep 1996 16:05:49 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 16 Sep 1996 11:33:36 GMT, [email protected]
>: (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>: >I will confess that this is the first Usenet posting that has actually
>: >succeeded in making me laugh out loud in several months. Good work,
>: >Myshkin.
>: Now you know that cheap insults always lead to the following.
>: Wer ist Sylvia?
>The ability to make people laugh is a gift. I was actually giving high
>praise to your abilities with the English language. Even the posts on
>rec.humor.funny [sic] rarely make me laugh out loud.
>So explain to us again how CO2 is not an acid even though every chemistry
>text consulted confirms that it is, and how it won’t react with CaO even
>though several standard references claim that it will. . .
>—–
>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>—–
>”I’ve lost my harmonica, Albert.”
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 18:21:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66668 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:05:03 GMT
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:05:40 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Scott Erb wrote:
>>
>>If one really wants to see where racism and the like leads, read the history
>>of Germany. If ever another state like Nazi Germany arose, it would suffer
>>the same fate — or worse.
> Nonsens nazism was first and foremost German chauvinism. Racism was just
>utilized in order to justify German chauvinism and megalomania. The reason,
>why WW2 started, was because Hitler invaded Non-German countries like Poland.
>If Germany had stayed within it’s own border, England and France would never
>have declared war. England and France would never have started a war of
>solely ideological reasons. WW2 was not an ideological war.
Germany only invaded Silesia which was part of Germany that had been given to
Poland. England declared war against Germany in defense of the Treaty of
Versailles despite the excuse that it was in defense of Poland. Had it been the
latter they would have attacked Russia also.
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 18:21:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66672 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BATF Hit Squad — Tee Hee
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:54:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50q[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32[email protected]> <517q1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 14 Sep 96 22:37:02, [email protected] (Nosy) wrote:
>
>< On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:40:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>< >[email protected] wrote:
>< >>
>< >> Here, normal people, is another symptom of mental derangement:
>< >>
>< >> [email protected] (Sam A. Kersh) wrote:
>< >> >[email protected] (Norman Nithman) wrote:
>< >> >
>< >> >>So you are claiming that the BATF wanted to assassinate Koresh?
>< >> >>–
>< >> >
>< >> >Yes. That was Special Agent Steve Willis’ assignment. He missed and
>< >> >hit Perry Jones instead.
>
>< >> Lemme ask ya — if there was a hitsquad, howcum they’re ignoring these
>< >> GunGoofies? Letting ’em publicize all these “exposes” or even letting ’em
>< >> live?
>< >>
>< >> I got it! The professionally trained, conspiratorial secret ATF hit
>< >> squad is *scared* to tackle the GunGoofies. Yeah, that must be it.
>< >>
>< >> Dopctors say a good laugh is good for our health. At that rate, the
>< >> GunGoofies will keep me alive forever. They’ll be *so* happy to know
>< >> that.
>< >I agree if BATF had intended to assasinate (read: murder) Koresh. It
>< >would have been a simple matter for a sniper to set up in a hide at 400
>< >to 600 meters and remove him with one shot. A lot simpler than a dynamic
>< >entry, it even could have been set up that that would be the signal for
>< >the entry so as to disguise the sniper’s work.
>
> As a matter of fact, at least one team of sharpshooters DID
> shoot unarmed Davidians as part of the raid, but Vernon
> Howell was shot at from close range.
>< The primary purpose was to look good in front of Congress that was
>< considering their funding.
> Probably. But Giwer, as someone who has denied the facts
> of the Holocaust, which some call the Shoah, is in no
> position to talk about facts.
When did I deny that people could see the faces of the pilots from inside closed
trucks and that they could hear their maniacal laughter over the airplane
engines? When did I deny that a man could be gassed six times and live to tell
about it? When did I deny that Nazi doctors infected people with cancer? When
did I deny that millions were executed by steaming and electrocution and
suffocation?
It appears you are suffering from a belief that the facts are what current
writers are saying rather than the sworn testimony at the trials. Which are the
facts that you want to believe? And why do you choose to believe people who
were never in the camps over those who were eyewitnesses to the steaming and
assembly line electrocutions and such?
>< The choice of target was influenced by the likes of that lying scum, >< Morris Dees. (When will he spend some time identifying members of >< known terrorist groups such as the JDL? Never. He is on the side of >< those terrorists.) > The JDL does not exist any more, as Giwer should know.
Sort of a surprise to them.
> Be that as it may, Giwer is not welcome in this discussion.
I was unaware an invitation was needed.
>< Dees and his SPLC are interested in getting rid of Christian >< organizations. > Here we see Giwer stepping off into the Twilight Zone.
> While Morris Dees has a rather poor record (he DEFENDED
> the BATF after “nigger hunting licenses” were discovered)
> there’s no evidence to support Giwer’s conspiracy theory,
> and every reason to question strongly Giwer’s claims,
> given his nonsensical denial of the facts of the Holocaust.
You need to pay more attention to Dees. He always throws in the religious bent
of the people he attacks and they are uniformly christian of some fundamentalist
bent or other.
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 19:34:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66680 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Sorry Winnie
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 13:54:07 GMT
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On the Holocaust
Never have so many, believed so much, based upon so little.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66689 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Opinions on Nuremberg
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:33:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <322dc389.192[email protected]> <[email protected]> <14SEP199611163[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:35:09 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> Research is not reading researchers save to liberal arts pukes.
>Complete nonsense. Even in Giwerese, this statement makes no sense at all.
>
>Poor Mr. Giwer is really losing it now.
>
>Sara
>–
>”I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
It means you are a liberal art puke, untrained in analytic thought.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:07 PDT 1996
Article: 66691 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:04:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:40:23 GMT, [email protected] (Steve A) wrote:
>[email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:
>>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (B.P.F. Kassler) writes:
>>
>>! >Does Germany allow it’s citizens to purchase firearms? Why?
>>! Of course Germany allows it’s citizens to purchase firearms.
>>
>>Are you aware of the great restrtictions put on her citizens who
>>desire to own, say, a Glock 26, or a Remington 1100? You cannot,
>>under the zillions of persnickery restrictions.
>>
>>! Of course not every asshole may purchase a firearm.
>>! (That’s the difference to the US regulations.)
>>
>>The USA national law has a lifetime prohibition on firearm ownership
>>to those who have been convicted of any felony, has ever been under
>>involutary psychiatric observation, or is presently under the age of
>>21, an alcoholic or drug addict, under the age of 18 for rifles or
>>shotguns, etc., and the many state laws may go considerably stricter.
>>This doesn’t sound to me like “everybody.”
>And what about the availability of illegally held firearms? Or
>those which are able to be stolen from legitimate holders.
>Ultimately, those guns are in circulation, and that’s bad enough
>for me.
>In Scotland, last March, a man walked into a school gym and shot
>sixteen five-year-old children and their teacher dead. Many
>others were injured. The only reason, it would appear, that the
>carnage was not worse was because he had been misled as to when
>the entire school was due to assemble.
>George Hamilton carried four legally-held firearms and hundreds
>of rounds of ammunition into that gym.
>There is no reason at all why a private citizen should need to
>possess and have at home firearms and ammunition – in the UK, the
>only place that these weapons may be used (shotguns excepted) is
>on a firing range. While there is the danger that people like
>George Hamilton can walk into our schools and murder our
>children, I cannot see a credible case being made for privately-
>held firearms.
>As far as I am concerned, there is no number of “persnickery”
>restrictions that is too great when measured against the lives of
>any innocent person, let alone a class of five-year-olds.
>The facts are this: in the UK, where gun ownership is very
>restricted (though not enough, IMO), the number of deaths from
>gunshot is proportionally tiny when compared to the number of
>deaths from gunshot in the US. I consider that to be a function
>of the availability of firearms in the US, which I see in turn to
>be a function of the fact that it is, comparatively speaking, a
>great deal easier to legally gain access to firearms in the US
>than in the UK.
>I don’t give a damn about any peripheral arguments, whether about
>”persnickery” (lovely word, BTW :->) restrictions or not.
So what? Most of the people killing each other are criminals killing off
criminals. Who cares?
As for the rest, we know gun control laws do not work in this country as it is
illegal for criminals to have guns in the US yet they do have guns. It is the
same in England.
If criminals want guns, criminals get guns. It does not do any good to tell
them they are breaking the law by possessing guns. If it mattered to them they
would not be criminals in the first place.
In any event, every state in the US that has made a concealed carry license easy
to get has seen a drop in violent crime. It works for us. Of course it does
not reduce total crime, simply that nonviolent crime increases.
The good thing about a dead criminal is that his status as a criminal becomes
moot.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:08 PDT 1996
Article: 66698 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: and do not forget
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:43:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 17 Sep 1996 07:00:15 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>: Nitskor [sic] is a German derivative word.
>I notice that, while people have been arguing the matter with Myshkin,
>no one has yet asked him the obvious question regarding this assertion.
>Although Myshkin’s German skills are questionable, to say the least
>(vide his explanation of “Leichenkeller”), to have made the assertion
>above, namely, that Nizkor is a “German derivative word,” he must have
>some reference for its etymology. Therefore, I ask, if “nizkor” is a
>”German derivative word,” from which German (or OHG or proto-Germanic,
>if you prefer) word is it derived?
>—–
>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>—–
>”You don’t even have a clue as to which clue you’re missing.” — Miss Manners
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
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It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
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For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66712 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:48:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:10:57 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
># As you have sided with Israeli murderers
>
>Never did any such thing; I pointed out that the attack on the
>Liberty was an error.
That is siding with murderers as it is clear it was not a mistake.
Just like the cases of “friendly fire”
>in the Gulf War. That’s my opinion. That’s also the opinion
>of Robert McNamara. Is he also a “traitor who sided with
>Israeli murderers”?
That means yuo are siding with murderers.
But as to McNamara, he and LBJ conspired to escalate the war in Vietnam by lying
about the Gulf of Tonkin incident so in fact there is nothing I would put passed
him. I have sugggested he be executed for doing that. He is hardly a person to
be trusted. Nor is he a person you should be referencing knowing what he did.
He has no reputation for honesty in public matters.
># I have little so day to you other than to regularly point out that
># you suppport cold blooded murder when done by Israel.
>
>So, it will be just one more lie you post.
>
># You have sided with murderers.
>
>Nope.
Very clearly you are one of the murderers in spirit. You would prefer to
believe Israel over the report of Americans who are those who the Isrealis were
trying to kill.
Traitorous scum!
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66717 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is all in the image
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:35:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51bl8b$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 09:09:20 GMT, [email protected] (Angus M. McLellan) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> Of interest today is that Germany taking over the Rhineland is
>>presented as something that every nation took notice of and condemned.
>But not very loudly. Not even the French felt sufficiently aggrieved
>to order even a single soldier across the frontier.
>> In fact, at the time Germany moved on the Rhineland, Italy’s conquest
>>of Ethiopia using poison gas had the headlines and the diplomatic
>>limelight. That means there was no resources to devote to Germany’s
>>actions at the time.
>Assistance to Ethiopia appears to have escaped the notice of
>contemporary newspapers and subsequent historians. But Mr Giwer
>doubtless knows better.
I did not say there was any assistance to Ethiopia. Why do you say it?
>> As we can see, it is all in how one looks at it. It is how
>>government’s control public opinion.
>Does the US Goverment control Mr Giwer’s opinion ? Perhaps he should
>use a heavier grade of tinfoil to line his hat.
I am simply a member of the public but certainly the government hiding things
does control opinion. Or is that too complicated for you?
>> Another example is the German “invasion” of Poland. Rather what
>>Germany invaded was that part of Germany that had been given to Poland
>>as a result of WW I. England’s promise to defend Poland was not that
>>but rather a promise to defend the partition of Germany as established
>>by the Treaty of Versailles.
>The bit of Germany “given” to Poland in 1918-1919 had been German
>since 1871 since Germany didn’t exist prior to that date. And most of
>it had been Prussian since way back in the 1790s barring a short time
>when Napoleon filched bits to create the Grand Duchy of Warsaw. So,
>West (Royal) Prussia was occupied for 130 years, that doesn’t make it
>German any more than the Russian occupation of Finland for 110 years
>made Finland Russian, etc.
And? You want make an issue over the terms used today for governments that no
longer exist? But since you are into history you must also address the control
of the area by the order of the Teutonic Knights in the 15th and 16th centuries.
But in any event you fail to name any time when it was part of Poland.
>> It was against the reunification of Germany not in favor of Poland.
>>This explains England’s selective declaration of war against Germany
>>but not against Russia that took over what was left and which was
>>never part of Germany.
>The Anglo-Polish Treaty _specifically_ mentioned that it was directed
>against Germany; the USSR didn’t get a look in. Likewise, Giwer
>ignores the fact that there are two weeks between the German and
>Soviet invasions. It’s one thing to declare war on one powerful enemy,
>it’s Hitlerianly stupid to declare war on two. Etc.
As I said, it is good you agree England did not give a shit about Poland but was
looking for an excuse to make war on Germany.
>Giwer keeps trotting out the same old rubbish, the same old lies. They
>don’t improve with repetition. I’m sure I read somewhere that ad
>nauseam arguments aren’t common in usenet. Has anyone told Giwer or
>Moran ?
You do not appear to be adding much to this other than to demonstrate you
believe the same British that created the Zimmerman Note suddenly became
completely open and aboveboard just a few decades later. Or perhaps you are of
the opinion that WW II was the first war that had only one side to it.
If you do not ming my observing, either is quite naive.
=====
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Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66719 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:57:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:39:13 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes to me:
># And of course the physical evidence of Dresden does not
># require one bit of personal testimony.
>What “physical evidence of Dresden”? No such thing; you
>never posted any. According to your “standards of proof”,
>the city was never bombed.
># No one cares about whether or not Dresden occurs.
>Irrelevant. The point is that “revisionist logic” leads
>to the conclusion that the city was never bombed.
># Get that through your little skull.
>Get a job, you miserable failure.
>163 IQ he claims, and he’s been unemployed since he was
>46 years old… what a schmuck this Giwer is.
The point is that you are not bright enough to realize that no one is going to
take you seriously in the holohugger pretension that there is no physical
evidence of Dresden.
Lurkers are quite intelligent people, that is why they are here, to discover
there is another side to the holocaust stories.
What we are down to now are holohuggers pretending not to know what physical
evidence is. They are a small crowd in a very tight corner trying to cover up
what everyone knows, that there is not now nor was there ever any physical
evidence of holocaust gassing. Everyone knows there was no such evidence
presented at Nuremberg and none has been found since then.
That is the way it is. I can not change it.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66727 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:55:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 268
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 17 Sep 1996 20:22:51 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer
>>On 16 Sep 1996 11:28:43 GMT,
>>[email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>>
>>>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>>: Excuse me. You claim the number has always been the same.
>>>: Therefore prior to the revision the total was
>>
>>>: 4 million + others = 6 million
>>
>>>: After the revision it was
>>
>>>: 1 million + others = 6 million
>>
>>>: Please explain which of the “others” increased at the same time
>>>: Auschwitz decreased. It is simple arithmetic. The “others” has to
>>>: have increased by 3 million. Which ones did?
>>
>>>Actually, the real question is just what Myshkin thinks he is accomplishing
>>>by reposting the same lie multiple times. Does he really think that we’ll
>>>suddenly lose our ability to refute it?
>>
>>If you wish to throw out the conclusions of the IMT as a lie you will have
>>to do more than simply declare it a lie. The IMT is the source of the
>>pre-Auschwitz revision.
> Of course Mr. Giwer does not give a reference. (Nor is it clear which
>figure he is talking about – the six million total, or four million for
>Auschwitz.)
I would have thought that even you would know that the IMT concluded 6 million
jewish deaths and that even today the number is in the same range.
>>>The estimates of the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust were done
>>>by numerous historians who used different methods.
>>
>> There have been only two historians in the business and they
>>arbitrarily and capriciously reject anything about the IMT they do not
>>happen to like.
> Again, an unsupported assertion. Typical Giwer.
Name more than two.
>>Dawidowicz, for example,
>>>obtained her figure of 5.9 million as the difference between pre- and
>>>post-war populations.
>>
>>Unfortunately that can only be based upon pre and post war European
>>populations in the years in which census were taken. That is hardly
>>rigorous as there no census that coincided with the beginning and end of
>>the war in the countries of interest.
>>
>> Nor does it deal with emmigration.
> I wonder if Mr. Giwer can provide physical evidence of this
>emigration.
I was unaware there was anyone who did not know of it. You may look up the
holohugger laments over the Nazis permitting jews to buy their way out of
Germany.
>>Nor does it deal with those who died going to, staying in, and returning from
>>Siberia.
> I wonder if Mr. Giwer can provide physical evidence of this.
Russian rail records of course.
>>Nor did the Soviet Union ever publish an honest census in its entire
>>existance.
> Other demographers made estimates as well.
The subject was census not estimates.
>>Nor does it identify a cause of death, such as honorable service in the Red
>>Army.
> A somewhat valid point which I have made myself.
Given that the Red Army claims around 30 million total deaths during that war, a
10% difference can account for all of it.
>>Nor does it take any fraction from the 31 million untraceable on any rational
>>basis.
> Another unsupported assertion.
In my day it was in all the grade school textbooks. Why is it you folks have
never heard of it?
>>Other than that, some uncritical people may be taken in by nonsense such as
>>that.
> Some uncritical people may also be taken in by the unsupported
>assertions of a confessed liar.
Unsupported? You folks would demand suppport for the sun rising in the east if
you thought it would support holohuggery.
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
That is the way things appear when they deliberately taken out of context for
the purposes of deception.
>>But it does coincide with the conclusion of all the investigations
>>conducted by four nations with complete and unrestricted access to all of
>>Europe.
>>
>>>She did not explicitly count the individual methods
>>>used, although she does quote Hoess’s estimate of 2.5 million killed at
>>>Auschwitz. On the other hand, Hilberg,
>> Hilberg was not then and is not now a historian. And do not forget that
>>as of 1989 he had spent exactly one day at Auschwitz. Quite the
>>researcher. But then he was officially a professor of PoliSci and Public
>>Affairs at the time. It was only later that someone bought a chair in
>>history for him.
> Mr. Giwer comments on many subjects for which he has no credentials.
>Now suddenly he demands credentials.
I did not demand credentials. I was simply pointing out that he has none as a
historian despite the holohuggers wanting to claim he is one.
>>>writing in 1961, came up with
>>>a figure of “at least” 5.1 million, and he did divide the number of
>>>deaths by category. He calculated that about 1 million people were
>>>killed at Auschwitz. He did that by subtracting the number of people
>>>left in Auschwitz at the time of its evacuation from the number of
>>>people sent there.
>> Impossible as by that method, recorded entries, all deaths are accounted
>>for by natural death, disease and accident. No gassing by that method.
>>The celestial buzzer is sounding.
> Now if Mr. Giwer had some documentation he’d have something. Alas,
>all he has is BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!
> Psychic prediction: he will claim he has posted this documentation
>(but provide no URL or search strategy). And somehow DejaNews will not be
>able to find it. Again.
Actually the evidence in on Nizkor. They will help you find it. It is right
there if you know how to read it. It is sort of like the holohuggers
overlooking the situation in 1920s in Germany were government and academic, all
the secure jobs, were gotten by bribery.
>>>But the important point is that he used the “1 million
>>>plus others” to get a figure of over 5 million at a time when the
>>>”official” number killed at Auschwitz was still 4 million.
>>
>> Obviously you studied arithmetic in public school.
> Perhaps Mr. Giwer never studied reading at all.
Try arithmetic. You might like it.
>>>Now if we could just get him to post that physical evidence of the
>>>Dresen firestorm that he keeps promising us. . .
>>
>>It is all there if you are willing to admit it.
> So is the physical evidence for the Holocaust.
If you are willing to show me some, I will be happen to see it, even by
reference. So far the best anyone has come up with is no different from finding
DDT traces in old US buildings.
>>But then everything you have cited above are groundless estimates, not
>>physical evidence.
> So what? Mr. Giwer has made hundreds of claims and provided no
>physical evidence for them. But intellectual consistency has never been
>his strong suit.
Rather I have provided many examples, but even one example puts me way ahead of
holohuggers.
> So just where is the physical evidence for that Dresden firestorm he
>claimed happened? (Note that this is not the same thing as a big fire
>such as happened in London or Chicago.) Still waiting.
You do not read the newsgroup do you?
The holohuggers are getting rather desparate here.
For months they have tried to distract the discussion from the complete and
total lack of any physical evidence of gassing during the holocaust. They do
not want it discussed that not one bit of physical evidence of gassing was
presented at Nuremberg.
They do not want it well known that every bit of the gassing is based upon the
same eyewitnesses who swore to mass executions by steam, electrocution and
suffocation.
Their problem is if they admit there is not and has never been any physical
evidence presented then they have to deal with all the evidence being from
witnesses who swore under oath to all kinds of impossible things, such as
burning people without fuel, infecting them people with cancer, being gassed six
times and living to tell about it and the like.
Their “best” gambit so far has been to pretend that there is no physical
evidence of the firebombing of Dresden. In doing so they claim that all the
documentation of the planning, the inventory records, personnel assignments,
bomb camera films, damage assessment films and hundreds of other things are not
physical evidence. The physical evidence of Dresden is so complete that it
could be reconstructed without one bit of testimony.
Rather they would pretend that everything that is known about Dresden depends
upon eyewitness accounts. Of course, only holohugger is dumb enough to believe
such a thing. Everyone else knows better, even they know better.
But when the purpose is to preserve holocaust belief, those who promote is are
willing to lie and to attempt to mislead anyone who points out the truth. It is
not surprising that so many of the holohuggers are stereotyped as liars and
deceivers.
It also clear that those who depend upon eyewitnesses only put their holocaust
in the same category as UFO abductions and witchcraft. Neither have any
physical evidence, both depend upon eye witness reports only, just like the
holocaust.
But even worse than witnesses at Nuremberg swearing to impossible things, we
find that only a few of these witnesses ever appeared in court. Nor was there
testimony introduced as sworn affidavits. They were generally simple typed
documents in some language, with or without a translation, and they were
accepted by the court and the defense was not permitted to object.
Thus we have so much court accepted “evidence” of the impossible.
But above all, there is no physical evidence of gassing and none was introduced
at Nuremberg. This is the clear fact that holohuggers want to hide at all
costs. Pointing out the lack clearly puts UFO abductions and witchcraft in the
same category as their favorite gassing.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66728 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:56:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 103
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51jdlb$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43761 alt.revisionism:66728
On 16 Sep 1996 20:29 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) writes…
>>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>: Excuse me. You claim the number has always been the same.
>>: Therefore prior to the revision the total was
>>: 4 million + others = 6 million
>>: After the revision it was
>>: 1 million + others = 6 million
>>: Please explain which of the “others” increased at the same time
>>: Auschwitz decreased. It is simple arithmetic. The “others” has to
>>: have increased by 3 million. Which ones did?
>>
>>Actually, the real question is just what Myshkin thinks he is accomplishing
>>by reposting the same lie multiple times. Does he really think that we’ll
>>suddenly lose our ability to refute it?
> [refutation deleted]
> No, Giwer realizes that he will be refuted. He has other reasons for
> posting such obvious lies. Consider what he said in Message-ID
> <[email protected]>:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
> Mr. Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
> causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
> has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
> document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
> refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
> engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
> complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
> counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt and the
> various subdirectories beneath this.
> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
> Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
> North America: https://nizkor.org/
The holohuggers are getting rather desparate here.
For months they have tried to distract the discussion from the complete and
total lack of any physical evidence of gassing during the holocaust. They do
not want it discussed that not one bit of physical evidence of gassing was
presented at Nuremberg.
They do not want it well known that every bit of the gassing is based upon the
same eyewitnesses who swore to mass executions by steam, electrocution and
suffocation.
Their problem is if they admit there is not and has never been any physical
evidence presented then they have to deal with all the evidence being from
witnesses who swore under oath to all kinds of impossible things, such as
burning people without fuel, infecting them people with cancer, being gassed six
times and living to tell about it and the like.
Their “best” gambit so far has been to pretend that there is no physical
evidence of the firebombing of Dresden. In doing so they claim that all the
documentation of the planning, the inventory records, personnel assignments,
bomb camera films, damage assessment films and hundreds of other things are not
physical evidence. The physical evidence of Dresden is so complete that it
could be reconstructed without one bit of testimony.
Rather they would pretend that everything that is known about Dresden depends
upon eyewitness accounts. Of course, only holohugger is dumb enough to believe
such a thing. Everyone else knows better, even they know better.
But when the purpose is to preserve holocaust belief, those who promote is are
willing to lie and to attempt to mislead anyone who points out the truth. It is
not surprising that so many of the holohuggers are stereotyped as liars and
deceivers.
It also clear that those who depend upon eyewitnesses only put their holocaust
in the same category as UFO abductions and witchcraft. Neither have any
physical evidence, both depend upon eye witness reports only, just like the
holocaust.
But even worse than witnesses at Nuremberg swearing to impossible things, we
find that only a few of these witnesses ever appeared in court. Nor was there
testimony introduced as sworn affidavits. They were generally simple typed
documents in some language, with or without a translation, and they were
accepted by the court and the defense was not permitted to object.
Thus we have so much court accepted “evidence” of the impossible.
But above all, there is no physical evidence of gassing and none was introduced
at Nuremberg. This is the clear fact that holohuggers want to hide at all
costs. Pointing out the lack clearly puts UFO abductions and witchcraft in the
same category as their favorite gassing.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66739 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:21:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:38:18, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Why would I want a job? What would I do with it?
>Support yourself and stop being a leech? (You’ve admitted that you don’t have
>money put away, after all.)
I fail to see how living upon my annuity is being a leech. It is mine, it pays
me. Are you suggesting that I can leech off of myself?
You do know what an annuity is, do you not? If case have missed it, an annuity
is a thing that you pay into for years and then it pays you back for years.
Why do you not set one up and live on it?
As to what you think I have admitted, you obviously have read incorrectly.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:53:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:26:21 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik)
wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 21:08:06 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
>>Bilik) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>> As has been discussed in depth here, the polish report is worthless as
>>>>it has only one data point.
>>>THREE datas for each point. Reread it:
>>>
>>>Auschwitz cellars of Block 11
>>> 13 28, 24, 24
>>> 14 20, 16, 16
>>> 15 0
>>>
>>>You see: three points except if the data is null (one null point means
>>>that the three are too, even if not). Ever three points in any other
>>>case.
>>>Do you understand ? or is it too hard ?
>> Read it again. The 0 was taken from the “once or never” places
>>without discrimination thust they could all have been from teh “never”
>>places in which case there is no datat point.
>> Or is that too hard for you?
>Pfuhh.. “Each sample of materials was analysed three times. If the
>result was positive, if was verified by repeating the analysis. Having
>applied this method for many years, we have opportunities to find its
>high sensitivity, specificity and precision. Under present
>circumstances we established the lower limit of determinability of
>cyanide ions at a level of 3-4 ug CN- in 1 kg of the sample”.
>One point, indeed ?
Read it again. The “zero” can have come from places where it was never used. f
the other samples had been taken from barracks where it was known to have been
used and the number of times it had been used there would be another data point.
It could also be larger than this measurement but we will never know.
This only thing this can pretend to show is that there were more traces than in
places that were rarely exposed to HCN. But quite simply in these measurements
they may never have been exposed to HCN so a zero is meaningless.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66756 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:13:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:40:13 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) whines:
># After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a
># person to take?
>You’re a pathological liar.
>You don’t have a job.
>Everything you write about any technical subject whatsoever
>is totally, absolutely, and completely false.
>You are unemployed since you were 46, as you have posted
>yourself.
>You’re the most vulgar poster to the net I’ve ever seen.
>You can’t get a job.
>Your life is a failure.
I was not aware you were such a great success.
Haven’t even made your first mortgage payment and you think you are hot shit.
Your great wisdom in life should be an objective for everyone.
After all, your entire ego is built around the job you have and the money you
make. You think it will attract females and get you layed.
You really still think you can make a difference in the world. Some day you may
wake up and realize you are nothing but a slave to your own expectations and the
whims of others. Then, if you have sense, you simply walk away.
But is clear that to you, success means a job. That is all there is to you,
that standard issue middle class American dream.
Tell me, after you have played out the charade what will you do when you realize
you did not die with the most toys but that you are still dead?
Do you have any objective in life other than having more material goods than
your neighbor?
Danny-boy, you are a fine example of all that is wrong with American culture in
that you think all of the above is insulting. Have you never looked in a mirror
and realized that you are nothing but a job?
There is no Daniel Keren. There is only a animated carcass that judges himself
based upon his achievement of social expectations. There is no real you.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:53:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51eg[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On 16 Sep 1996 22:34:04 -0400, [email protected] (Ceacaa) wrote:
>Security at Crema II and III
>According to Standard Holocaust Mythology (STM)
>Crema II and III were the home of hundreds
>of “Sondercomandos”. These were healthy
>men who supposedly ran the gas chambers.
>They organized and sorted the clothing
>and belongings of hundreds of thousands
>(or millions) of victims. Every few months
>(STM) they were all killed.
> One would imagine that the security arrangements
>guarding these condemed men would be rather
>high, especially as the Soviet armies approached
>the Camp.
> Oddly enough, the records and plans of the
>Cremas LACK any sign of heightened security.
>No bars on windows, on locks on doors, no
>special fittings such as bolt holes. As noted
>in a posting of several days ago, Crema III
>was only watched by a small guardtower with
>windows that didn’t open!
> Exterminations have no explaination for this.
Were you here when the holohuggers dug up some SK testimony about sleeping in
the gas chamber and then they all swore it had to be true?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66765 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time and lies while he is at it…
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:25:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On 17 Sep 1996 01:42:00 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 16 Sep 1996 05:02:23 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>: wrote:
>: >To support your claim that “The nazis did no such thing,” you falsely
>: >quoted the original article as “cannot become.” You did this without
>: >deleting the original, either because you subconsciously want to be
>: >caught at this sort of thing or because you are an idiot. The “question,”
>: >therefore, is based on your mendacity, and ceases to exist.
>: Since you have such knowledgeable disagreement with what I have
>: posted, will you please post the evidence of Jews being stripped of
>: citizenship? It is a legal process. I person has to be identified as
>: Jewish according to some criteria and then the citizenship formally
>: removed in court.
>No, Matt–you’re not going to change the subject. That the Nazis
>stripped Jews of their citizenship is not controversial, even among
>deniers. This is a non-argument–you’re trolling.
Excuse me. It did not happen. Is that clear enough? You are invited to post
cases of the removal of citizenship or laws requiring same. Or are you going to
claim it was another of those undocumented things like the gassing?
>The question on the table is this: why did you change the wording
>of the original post so that it read “cannot become” rather than
>”cannot be”?
Because jews were citizens and remained citizens.
The only people in Europe in that time frame stripping people of citizenship
were the Poles stripping Silesians of Polish citizenship and pushing them across
the border into Germany.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:17 PDT 1996
Article: 66770 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:23:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50c[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50h0jn$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <4SEP199607010[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:39:19 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> Stealing is stealing regardless of what you wish. Dropping US
>and German
>> subisdies the per capita income of Israel drops 20-30%. So what? It a US
>> version of Cuba simply not abandoned.
>>
>> But the Cold War is over. We no longer need Israel to sell us
>captured Soviet
>> weapons. And despite the fantasy, ALL captured weapons were sold, not
>given, to
>> the US. It was always a matter of profit.
>>
>> Some friends.
>>
>> Some allies.
>>
>> Fucking murderers.
>An interesting, though completely off-topic, diatribe, Mr. Giwer.
>
>However.
>
>It does NOT address MY comment to you, which is that you’re completely
>illiterate.
>
>It’s a wonderful non-sequiter, but proves that you also have serious
>problems with reading comprehension.
>
>But you knew that.
You brought up stealing. I responded with examples. You have a problem with
that?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:17 PDT 1996
Article: 66773 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer’s identity REVEALED! (was Re: the usual suspects)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:34:24 GMT
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On 17 Sep 1996 13:56:23 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>: And do you really think I do not almost but avoid saying what you are
>: looking for deliberately?
>Now it can be revealed — “Matt Giwer” is *really* William S. Burroughs.
>Which explains both the drug-induced hallucinatory nature of “Giwer’s”
>posts as well as his methodology of taking a coherent sentence written
>on a piece of paper, cutting it apart, and putting the pieces back together
>at random.
>No wonder I never see the two of them together. . .
>—–
>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>—–
>”I have, if you will forgive the expression, known several bastards
>with very high IQs.”
> –J. Bronowski
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66777 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If Ole walks like a duck, and Ole talks like a….
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:05:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51c869[email protected]> <51f4gr[email protected]> <323b5ec5.2[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:36:08 -0400, Alec Grynspan
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Quite true. It would be good for everyone to know that he came to power through
>> constitutional means and that the government he replaced was governing
>> unconstitutionally.
>Congratulations, Matt – you have now demonstrated TOTAL ignorance!
Why do you not post your great knowledge on the subject?
That was rhetorical. All you know comes in megabytes that you have read,
murderer.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:19 PDT 1996
Article: 66778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Billy Anderson
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:39:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <322eef53.5469[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 17 Sep 1996 16:51:52 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: You mean like Yid beanies?
>Lurkers will note that Matt has repeatedly claimed he is not an
>antisemite.
It is a beanie isn’t it? How does it differ from a beanie? Perhaps you are
suggesting that people who speak Yiddish do not wear them?
Please be specific in your response?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:59:53 PDT 1996
Article: 43740 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:28:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 405
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:18:02 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> Neither of them have said anything about the holocaust. They
>have only erased
>> the absurdities from the Nuremberg trial testimony. Of course they have never
>> justified what they have omitted based upon other than considering those parts
>> absurd. Neither of them have ever explained why they kept the parts
>they did.
>> […deletia…]
>> Actually that had to have been responsible for 4.2 million
>deaths. But you know
>> that.
>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
>Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
>causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
>has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
>counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.
>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .
>JGB
>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’
You appear to be rather new here. You should know that when mantras are posted
I respond with something the holohuggers would rather not read. So please
continue. It gives me the opportunity to post the long ones.
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:59:54 PDT 1996
Article: 43745 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 22:37:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 466
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51bi[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:20:51 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> […deletia…]
>> If you wish to throw out the conclusions of the IMT as a lie you
>will have to do
>> more than simply declare it a lie. The IMT is the source of the pre-Auschwitz
>> revision.
>> […deletia…]
>> There have been only two historians in the business and they
>arbitrarily and
>> capriciously reject anything about the IMT they do not happen to like.
>> […deletia…]
>> Unfortunately that can only be based upon pre and post war
>European populations
>> in the years in which census were taken. That is hardly rigorous as there no
>> census that coincided with the beginning and end of the war in the
>countries of
>> interest.
>>
>> Nor does it deal with emmigration.
>>
>> Nor does it deal with those who died going to, staying in, and
>returning from
>> Siberia.
>>
>> Nor did the Soviet Union ever publish an honest census in its
>entire existance.
>>
>>
>> Nor does it identify a cause of death, such as honorable service
>in the Red
>> Army.
>>
>> Nor does it take any fraction from the 31 million untraceable on
>any rational
>> basis.
>>
>> Other than that, some uncritical people may be taken in by
>nonsense such as
>> that.
>>
>> But it does coincide with the conclusion of all the
>investigations conducted by
>> four nations with complete and unrestricted access to all of Europe.
>> […deletia…]
>> Hilberg was not then and is not now a historian. And do not
>forget that as of
>> 1989 he had spent exactly one day at Auschwitz. Quite the researcher.
>But then
>> he was officially a professor of PoliSci and Public Affairs at the
>time. It was
>> only later that someone bought a chair in history for him.
>> […deletia…]
>> Impossible as by that method, recorded entries, all deaths are
>accounted for by
>> natural death, disease and accident. No gassing by that method. The
>celestial
>> buzzer is sounding.
>>
>> […deletia…]
>> Obviously you studied arithmetic in public school.
>>
>> […deletia…]
>> It is all there if you are willing to admit it. But then
>everything you have
>> cited above are groundless estimates, not physical evidence.
>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
>Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
>causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
>has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
>counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.
>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .
>JGB
>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’
On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:
>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22
> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])
> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]
> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz
>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
>
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.
>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.
Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.
> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY
>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”
It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was permitted a
meaningful crossexamination.
>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.
“Stone him. Stone him.”
“Jehovah! Jehovah!”
Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.
>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.
>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?
She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution for her
treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the witnesses.
> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING
Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always laugh as
devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.
Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers believe
this sort of crap.
>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.
>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.
And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses of these
wagons, depending upon translation.
And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.
Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the engine.
Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see the faces of pilots
>from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly has to be paid for this
performance.
>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.
Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very efficient these
Nazis.
>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe
>had become from day to day more terrible.
A true whacko so far.
>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.
So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when they could
remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons? This person is truly
psychotic.
>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.
Certainly fingers were just pulled off.
Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?
>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”
But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.
But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.
It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.
You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the same
testimony.
> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS
>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.
>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
>
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.
They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of the chant
above come from? This witness?
>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”
Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one has.
>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.
In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of what
happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.
>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.
But she has no way of knowing.
> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT
>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.
They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant laundry was
expanded.
Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes tactic.
>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.
>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.
Who is it that does not want hearsay?
But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.
That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness it. What in
the hell does the author think witness means?
The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.
But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.
>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.
And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that this is
level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials. Even more interesting
that crossexamination was not permitted.
> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR
>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.
>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.
Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.
>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.
Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?
>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.
Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.
> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE
>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.
Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to organize this
and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by them?
>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.
But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.
> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED
>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.
Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.
>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of
>intestines that they wished to die.
They did not live off of them.
>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.
Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way the
holocaust works.
=====
http://www.codoh.com/
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:59:55 PDT 1996
Article: 43763 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!news.dfci.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!news4.ner.bbnplanet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT – the morans are still biting!
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:38:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:39:39 AM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43763 alt.politics.scorched-earth:556 alt.usenet.kooks:29105 alt.flame:25826 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:555
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:51:16 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:44:01 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
># As YFE should have told you folks, this constitutes an admission of
>#guilt and the only issue before the court is the amount of the reward.
>Little man, still trying to be a lawyer?
># You folks are betting that there will be no lawsuit.
>You should read the newsgroup, little man. You might have figured out what
>was going on. I though it would have been obvious to a troller like you.
It is clear you think you are talking about a suit by me or even
Moran.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 09:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66805 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:42:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c6.42594[email protected]> <323ad748.8997[email protected]> <323b4e[email protected]> <51htp5[email protected]> <323d58[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Wed, 18 Sep 96 20:39:42 GMT, [email protected] (Steven Casas) wrote:
>>[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:
>>
>>>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>
>>>: Concisely, the word “goy” or “goyim” is a racial reference. More
>>>: concisely yet, a racial slur.
>>>
>>>Whoops. Wrong again. Since a goy is a person who isn’t Jewish,
>>>and “Jewish” is not a race, “goy” can’t possibly be a racial
>>>reference.
>>>
>In your line of reasoning, it follows that a person who hates Jews cannot be a
>racist. But I say, since the Jews feel themselves superior to us Goyim in the
>same manner a human is superior to a dog, it is the Jews who are say they are
>of a different race and who are the racists.
But this takes us back to what Alec G. was trying so hard to explain. Eastern
European jews are those who have adopted the customs of the Hebrews without
being related to the Chosen People.
One does have to be very careful in talking about semitic peoples as eastern
European jews are not semitic. They are simply imitators of a primitive, tribal
religion.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 09:34:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66806 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:44:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c6.42594[email protected]> <323ad748.8997[email protected]> <323b4e[email protected]> <51htp5[email protected]> <323d5862[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 18 Sep 1996 21:19:31 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:
>Steven Casas ([email protected]) wrote:
>: >[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:
>: >>Whoops. Wrong again. Since a goy is a person who isn’t Jewish,
>: >>and “Jewish” is not a race, “goy” can’t possibly be a racial
>: >>reference.
>:
>: In your line of reasoning, it follows that a person who hates Jews
>: cannot be a racist.
>No–many people who hate Jews are also racists; but you’re right in
>assuming that hating Jews does not, technically, make a person a
>racist. It makes him an antisemite, which is a slightly different
>brand of fool.
I thought we had been over this. Eastern European jews are not semitic.
Strangely, pointing that out is considered antisemitic. The mental contortions
to get there are not clear.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 09:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 66807 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the – real ashes?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:21:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 19:11:23 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:
>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>: Oh no. Not a U R L. Not that.
>:
>: Okay Mr.VanAlstine, you got me.
>:
>: But wait a minute. Why don’t you just post it?
>Because it’s on Nizkor, where anybody who wants to can look at it.
>There’s no reason to waste space on this newsgroup by posting it.
>Nobody who’s interested will have any problem finding it.
>Except, of course, those few poor souls out there who’s rigiis
>won’t scroll sideways…
And, as noted, it inflates the hit count so as to impress contributors. It is a
minor misrepresentation for the unwary but that is what it is.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:34 PDT 1996
Article: 66813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:45:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c[email protected]> <51htk7[email protected]> <323d5867.98[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:04:47 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:
>>
>>>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>:
>>>: A “goyim” is a non-Jew.
>>>
>>>Wrong.
>>>
>>>Do keep trying, though.
>>
>> “Wrong” you say? Okay, correct it.
>>>Bill
> While this Anderson individual slinks back from righting the
>”wrong” he alleges, he is off posting more idiocy elsewhere.
Back of man. He’s on a mission from god.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:35 PDT 1996
Article: 66814 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, defender of copyright
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:13:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On 17 Sep 1996 18:54:23 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer
>>
>>Nazi gold hoard may have been from teeth fillings
>>
>>
>>Source: Reuters
>>
>[Snip]
>>[09-11-96 at 17:51 EDT, Copyright 1996, Reuters America Inc.]
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Is it just me or do other people recall Mr. Giwer thundering about how
>Nizkor was violating his copyright?
> Hypocrisy, thy name is Giwer.
I honor all objections to doing so and conspire with no one in doing so.
On the other hand, Nizkor folks continue to conspire to violate my copyright
despite my objections.
Get over it.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:36 PDT 1996
Article: 66815 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a chamber of cards – kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:42:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 145
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 17 Sep 1996 19:21:23 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer
>> Now that Keren and company have clearly admitted that the LKs had
>>multiple rooms
> Excuse me, but where was this?
> The LKs were multiple rooms in the Kremas.
You are quite unfamiliar with the subject. You are advised to read up on the
matter.
>>and that only one of those rooms was used as a gas
>>chamber it is time to move on. It certainly takes a long time to get
>>things through the thick skulls of some people.
> We will not know how long until Mr. Giwer finally understands the
>layout of the Kremas, as shown in the Bauleitung construction drawings.
>Nearly nine months since he got here, and he has not got it right even
>yet.
I have seen them and the aerial photos. I would suggest you look at them.
>> Let us take those “induction” columns. They were supposed to have
>>been evenly spaced some 30 feet apart down the center line of the
>>building. They were supposed to have been where the ZB was put in.
>>
>> But now that we know the “gas chamber” was only one room inside the
>>building the fiction of those “induction columns” is readily revealed.
>>They are not all over the “gas chamber” and no two of them could have
>>functioned as the two necessary columns for the one room that are
>>required by most of the stories.
> BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO! (The usual Giwer standard of evidence.)
And the same information is on Nizkor. You should take a look some time. You
would learn something, if you wanted to learn something.
>> To go further the much vaunted ventilation system (of which neither
>>specifications
> Wrong, correspondence describing the system can be found in “Anatomy
>of the Auschwitz Death Camp.” Mr. Giwer is just making this up as he
>goes. (At one point a wooden fan was called out, though it was later
>changed to a metal one. It does sound as if someone was worried about
>corrosion. I wonder why?)
Changing wood for metal indicates there was a loss of interest in corrosion,
unless you hold that wood corrodes. Other than that, imprecise “correspondence”
has nothing to do with what I said about specifications and drawings.
>>nor fans have been discovered) does not deal with that
>>one room at all but rather the entire complex of rooms. It is not
>>particular directed at the one “gas chamber.”
> Wrong again; the largest LK (the “Undressing Room”) was slated for a
>ventilation system at first but it was not actually installed. And that
>LK also had no gas-tight door.
The building (not really a room) that is labeled undressing room on Nizkor is a
separate structure that is a parallel extension of the Kremas. That has nothing
to do with any one of the five rooms of the LK. We are still missing any
specified ventilation system for that one room in the LK. Please feel free to
provide such information.
I have taken the liberty to attach an aerial photo with some labels. I got it
>from Nizkor. You would be wise to study it.
>> So after all of that build up and talking the entire story collapses
>>on the knowledge that it was supposed to be one room in the building,
>>something not mentioned by any of the “eyewitnesses” either,
> I have never seen one eyewitness quote who said it was the entire
>building. Perhaps Mr. Giwer will supply one?
That It was the entire building was the assumption Keren was using in his
calculations.
It is also the basis for every claim that the FOUR “little chimneys” that run
the length of the building were for pouring in ZB.
But as I was pointing out, NOT ONE witness ever mentioned a gas chamber being
internal to another building. Yet
Now there is a claim that everyone knows it was just one room inside the
building but there is no basis for knowing that from any witness report. It is
an invention of the holohuggers.
But you know that.
>>simply
>>invented later by those trying to find physical evidence to support
>>the fanciful tales of the witnesses.
> Mr. Giwer is once again highly confused, completely ignorant, and/or
>lying through his teeth, or any combination of the above.
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man’s opinion
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT
“The Nuremberg Trials … had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence already
announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial was this? …The
Constitution was not a collection of loosely given political promises subject to
broad interpretation. It was not a list of pleasing platitudes to be set lightly
aside when expediency required it. It was the foundation of the American system
of law and justice and [Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country
discarding those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy.”
— U.S. President, John F. Kennedy
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:37 PDT 1996
Article: 66828 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:24:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 104
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:43:31 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>This is indeed very sad – no sarcasm intended – but the
>attack was an error, just like the cases of “friendly
>fire” in the Gulf War.
Which means you have no concept of the meaning of friendly fire. Other than
that, Israel is no friend of the US unless there is money on the table.
>I can understand that people were injured, their friends
>killed – and they seek revenge. I don’t blame them. I do
>blame the Nazi scumbags who jump on the wagon and try to
>use this tragedy to their advantage. That a Nazi scum
>like “kurt stele” tries to use this tragedy to spread
>his propaganda is a disgrace to the memory of the Americans
>killed on this ship. As the son of a veteran, I express my
>disgust at this.
The truth about the actions of Israel are not propaganda.
>The “deliberate attack” theory is a myth, just like the
>myth that the Israeli pilots were heard talking in
>English (!!), and telling each other “why were we
>ordered to attack an American ship?”.
You expected them to speak Hebrew? Yiddish? What surprises you about their
speaking English?
>The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship.
Which is absolutely impossible due to size, profile, antennas and flag.
Therefore either the pilots had very poor eyesight or this is a lie.
It was
>not supposed to be there; no American ship was supposed
>to be there.
Any ship has a right to be any place on the ocean as long as outside the
territorial limits of any nation and then has the right of free passage. There
was no declared war and no declared war zone.
That makes that attack at best an act of piracy.
I have some material on this which I will
>hopefully find and post.
Sure, give us all the lies of Israel on the subject.
>To me, the most obvious evidence that the attack was an
>error is simple:
But as you know the error was impossible to make.
Israel had nothing to gain – nothing –
>and a lot to lose, by attacking an American ship, and
>more so, by attacking it in the most transparent manner
>possible. Moreover, when the torpedo boats approached
>the Liberty, they didn’t come firing, but signaling; Mr.
>Ennes writes so in his book. Only *after* the Liberty
>fired at them, did they fire back, including the torpedo
>which caused most of the casualties.
Gee, and the firing was after a 45 minute deliberate air attack that had already
murdered some 17 people by the same military of the same country. Self defense
is quite improper when it is against Israelis.
Also quite dangerous given what coldblooded murderers they are.
=====
Repeating Israeli lies does not further the truth.
But in any event, it was still an act of piracy on the open seas in an
undeclared war zone during an undeclared war. They strafed liferafts which is
rather subhuman but typical of Israeli murderers.
And it also shows where your loyalties lie, with Israel. One hopes you do not
claim to be an American citizen else you are a traitor of the Pollard type.
You are a very common form of Israeli apologist.
You side with murderers. You are no better than a murderer.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:37 PDT 1996
Article: 66835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Revisionists Today are Winning on A.R.
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:05:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:32:04 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) babbles:
># Anyone who can be swayed towards the conventional holocaust
># story by claims of hearing maniacal laughter of pilots over
># the engine
>Must say I missed the original article to which the Giwer
>is responding. I guess it mentions German pilots laughing
>when conducting starfing runs?
>Matty, take a movie of someone laughing in a maniacal
>fashion. Then turn the sound off. Then show it to a few
>people, and ask them what they see.
>I bet most will say “he’s laughing”.
>Look at silent movies, Matty. You don’t have a job. You
>have lots of free time. I bet even you can tell when
>the actors are laughing, right?
>Did the original testimony state that the laughter
>was actually heard?
Excuse me, the claim was hearing SATANIC laughter (even better for the
witchcraft analogy) and yes, she said it was heard. She also said they were
seen from the inside of covered wagons. And OBC posted it so it has to be true.
That is a real true eyewitness that OBC vouches for. I have posted it many
times. Can’t you read?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:38 PDT 1996
Article: 66837 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.service.emory.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!info.uah.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer the White Courtesy Phone, Part IV
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:19:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 20:11 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> Since when is what has been culled by two historians out of the absurdities of
>>Nuremberg considered the truth? If anything, Nuremberg is the truth,
>>absurdities and all. Not the work of two people trying to make it less than
>>laughable.
>>
>> The “truth,” as any historian will tell you, can not be determined until after
>>the participants in events are dead. That means there are 20-30 years to wait
>>until there can be any truth openly published about the holocaust.
>>
>> After all, one can not even suggest that crematoria do not mean gas chambers
>>these days. That is hardly a climate of open discussion.
> Has Matt Giwer posted something that has you tweaked? Are you
> thinking of spending time and energy responding to his troll?
> Then consider what he said in Message-ID
> <[email protected]>:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
> Mr. Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
> causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
> has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
> document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
> refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
> engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
> complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
> counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt and the
> various subdirectories beneath this.
> But, in particular, reread the quote from him above and ask yourself,
> “do I really think it good use of my time to argue with this guy, or
> should I just ignore his outrageous statements?” If you feel you must
> respond so that the novice reader is not fooled by him, consider
> clipping this post and using it as your reply.
> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
> Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
> North America: https://nizkor.org/
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man’s opinion
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT
“The Nuremberg Trials … had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence already
announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial was this? …The
Constitution was not a collection of loosely given political promises subject to
broad interpretation. It was not a list of pleasing platitudes to be set lightly
aside when expediency required it. It was the foundation of the American system
of law and justice and [Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country
discarding those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy.”
— U.S. President, John F. Kennedy
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 12:18:12 PDT 1996
Article: 43791 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: White MEN Created Everything
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 00:04:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 108
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:21:45 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> At least you admit that Abraham and Moses were not monotheists,
>noting that
>> Zoroaster and the Babylonian captivity were coincident within historic
>error.
>>
>> But the presumption of independence is not established as the
>exact dates of its
>> starting in each place within 100 years and the places where it started are so
>> relatively close together, and considering that for the Hebrews it started in
>> Babylon next door to Zoroastranianism in what is modern Iran.
>>
>> Any idea of independence in monotheism is rather absurd.
>Considering that in
>> one case the originator at least has a name and in the other it was introduced
>> by a 1984 technique of rewritting history, it is most likely that it had a
>> single origin in Iraq and was copied during the captivity.
>>
>> And of course there was the political problem for those in
>captivity. Having
>> been out of power for so many years they had to do something to regain power.
>> As Israel was a theocracy the only grounds for political power were
>religious.
>>
>> So it behooved those returning from captivity to have an
>alternative religious
>> platform else they would have to be subborinate to the power of those who had
>> remained behind. The supremacy of Yahweh God was given a minor twist to his
>> being the only god. It is the kind of trivial practical difference that makes
>> for great political battles. Nothing would change in the ceremonies,
>> obligations and the like. It was very like combining seven federal programs
>> into one program.
>>
>> For example, when Moses prayed to Astarte for water and she
>granted it and
>> Yahweh punished Moses for doubting his consort, it was only necessary to drop
>> Astarte from the story. That way Yahweh took on the aspect of the nurturing
>> earth mother in addition to the ultimate judge.
>>
>> Yahweh simply approved the bronze serpent rather Moses simply
>invoking the wise
>> god of Eden to save the people in the desert.
>>
>> It is really very easy to understand.
>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:
> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”
>Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
>causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
>has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
>counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.
>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .
>JGB
>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man’s opinion
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT
“The Nuremberg Trials … had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence already
announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial was this? …The
Constitution was not a collection of loosely given political promises subject to
broad interpretation. It was not a list of pleasing platitudes to be set lightly
aside when expediency required it. It was the foundation of the American system
of law and justice and [Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country
discarding those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy.”
— U.S. President, John F. Kennedy
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 13:55:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66849 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:42:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 20:03 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> It is often suggested that because historians have looked at the holocaust and
>>pronounced it true then it becomes the standard that must be negated. That
>>would appear a reasonable assumption on the surface …
> That is, in fact, how science is done in the world today.
>> The facts are otherwise. First, there are exactly two historians who have
>>investigated and published on the holocaust. (People like Wiesel and Hilberg
>>are not historians.)
> Giwer claims two historians. Exactly. Giwer is either very stupid or
> intentionally lying. There have been over 1,000 books written on the
> Holocaust, many of them by historians. Anyone can simply go to a card
> catalog in any public or university library (or search tem on the
> internet) and look up the subject heading “holocaust” to see that there
> are many many more than two books, again many of them written by
> historians.
> On top of this there hundreds to thousands of refereed journal articles
> and conference presentations on record about the Holocaust.
> Giwer is simply wrong. And it is simple for anyone to verify this.
Name THREE historians with their degree credentials. Take all the screens you
need.
>> Second, they have not investigated the holocaust. The basis for the holocaust
>>is the Nuremberg trials. What they have done is pick and choose from the
>>Nuremberg record to construct a plausible holocaust from the absurdities of the
>>Nuremberg record.
> Giwer is wrong again. A random sampling of these many books will show
> anyone that the Nuremburg trial record is a small part of the evidence
> for the Holocaust.
You are certainly a gullible little squat. Four nations with complete control
of Europe with all the investigators they wanted, millions of man hours of
inestigation and a few researchers manage to find so much information that
Nuremberg is only a small part of it.
Do you realize how foolish that sounds?
> Giwer is simply wrong. And it is simple for anyone to verify this.
You confuse the relative emphasis of the writers with the available material.
As I said, they have arbitrarily rejected the IMT.
>> Thus we are not discussing the acceptance of the Nuremberg record but the story
>>constructed from the record by those two historians. The issue of “acceptance”
>>as the null hypothesis is only the issue of the two versions of the holocaust
>>that were constructed by these two people.
> Given the error in all of Giwer’s premises, this conclusion is
> meaningless.
The meaning is that it is what has happened.
>> As such this does not qualify as a null hypothesis. Two people do not
>>constitute a consensus of historians.
> Same here.
Yes, it is people who have disregarded the findings of those millions of man
hours in favor of a very narrow story that disregards mass steamings,
electrocutions and suffocations, burning without fuel and the like.
Such things can NOT be disregarded without discounting the witnesses or those
who collected the testimony. Discounting such testimony for failure of personal
belief is no different from discounting gassing for failure of personal belief.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 13:55:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Revisionists’ Support Freedom Of Speech? That’s a Joke.
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:00:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:07:24 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>My opinion regarding the attack on the USS Liberty is
>different from Matt Giwer’s; I believe – and I have explained
>why – that the ship was attacked in the midst of the
>Arab-Israeli 1967 War because it was misidentified as
>an Egyptian ship.
Such a misidentification was and is impossible. It is no different from
shooting a bull and claiming to have thought it was a coyote. They are that
different.
The claim is clearly a lie.
But you know that.
And Israel had no right to attack an Egyptian merchant ship either.
You know that also.
And only subhuman murderers like the Israelis would sink lifeboats.
What is mistake, confusing lifeboats with an Egyptian merchant ship.
There is no disagreement here save that manufactured by those whose allegiance
is to Israel over the US. That is people you and JR and other scum.
>For that, Giwer called me a “murderer”, a “traitor”, and
>declared that “were you at my back in combat I would turn
>and kill you first”.
As you side with the murderers of Americans then that is the best light I can
put on what you are.
>It’s great to know that “revisionist scholars” are tolerant
>towards a view of history which is different from their
>own, isn’t it?
That is quite correct. You have chosen to believe the lies told by Israel
simply to cover your deepseated jewish hatred of America.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 14:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 66858 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is our german linguist?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:08:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 15 Sep 1996 14:03:27 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> By the way, I’d like to know if our eminent German linguist
>>can find anywhere in a german dictionnary ‘vergasungskeller’ or
>>its equivalent ‘gaskeller’ or in a newspaper, a book, anywhere,
>>and a context for which it is supposed to be a ‘gas chamber’ , I
>>mean, something else than a post war claim about this january
>>1943 letter.
> No problem. “Vergasungskeller” is a compound noun, which falls
>apart into the two nouns “Vergasung” und “Keller”. The meaning of
>”Keller” should be clear. The method of qualifying the meaning of
>nouns by building compound forms is a very productive feature of
>the German language. (Many students of German know and detest
>this 🙂 ) But this functions in a similar fashion in English. The
>first particle qualifies the second. “Lesesaal” is the “Saal”
>where the “Lesen” takes place (reading-room), “Waschraum” is the
>”Raum” where the “Waschen” takes place washing-room),
>”Vergasungskeller” is the “Keller” where the “Vergasung” takes
>place.
> “Vergasung” is defined in the dictionary with sources:
> Vergasung, die ; -,-en: 1 (Fachspr.) das Vergasen (1),
>Vergastwerden: Die Anlage … eignet sich zur V. aller …
>Holzabfaelle (NNN 29.6.84,3) (2.a) das Vergasen (2a),
>Vergastwerden: Ich habe von Anfang an gewusst, dass wir nach
>Auschwitz zur V. kommen (Hochhut, Stellvertreter 178) […]
>
> [Duden: das grosse Woerterbuch der deutschen Sprache, Band 8,
> Mannheim etc.: Dudenverlag, 2nd ed., 1995]
> “Vergasung” has therefore two means. First it is a technical
>term describing a process of turning a substance into a gaseous
>state. Second it means “to kill with gas”. This means that,
>following the semantics alone, a “Vergasungskeller” is a cellar
>where either substances are turned to gas or a cellar where
>people are killed with gas.
You have a very politically correct dictionary.
To review the bidding there is exactly one and only one example of this use of
the word with this forced meaning. That is very clear from the Auschwitz
reference in the definition. By that criteria EVERY unique use of a word
qualifies as having its own definition entry.
It is unclear why any rational and useful dictionary would include a one time
usage of a word in the entire language as a unique definition when, as a unique
usage, any meaning can be read into it.
You are aware that one letter is the one and only usage of it in that compound
in the entire history of the language PRIOR to that time?
And, as you such a student of the German language, you know, as in
Leichenkellar, the compounding of two words does not necessarily have any
relationship to the two words taken separately.
> To find out which specific meaning of “Vergasungskeller” is
>used in the present case, one has to look at contextual material.
Of which there is only one letter that the holohugger want to mean gas chamber
even Gaskammer (sp?) was the correct word in German. And they want to ignore
the only other closely related compound usage referring to gas warfare.
>”Revisionists” have favoured the first meaning (I think it was
>Butz) but have failed to provide any evidence for machinery which
>could have served the purpose of turning a certain substance to
>gas. On the other hand there is abundant evidence (documents,
>physical evidence, testimonies of SS-men and victims) that
>actually people were put to death in the cellar with the use of
>gas.
I am still awaiting someone to present that physical evidence rather than to
simply assert its existence. So far the only physical evidence are exactly
three dubious documents, one of which contains the one time usage of the word
under discussion.
It is about par for the holohugger cause to answer the obvious lack of physical
evidence by talking about Dresden. Right on target.
> This means that a “Vergasungskeller” is definitely a cellar
>were people are killed with the use of gas – a room which is
>usually called “gas chamber” in the English language and which
>may be called “Gaskammer” in German.
Buzzer there. Gaskammer WAS and IS the word in German regardless of English.
And of course it is also very strange to find one of five rooms in the cellar
being called a cellar even in a completely unique usage of the word, one time by
one person.
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 15:30:33 PDT 1996
Article: 66869 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW I and US involvement
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:20:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 18 Sep 1996 19:27:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>[A load of crap about World War 1]
> The Kaiser’s military didn’t want the United States supporting the
>British Empire so they tried to set up a border incident between Mexico and
>the United States. The message promising support to Mexican insurrectionists
>was intercepted and decrypted, thus revealing the plan to the U.S. government.
>This brought the United States into the war.
> [Summary, from memory, of the incident as described in
> David Kahn’s _The Codebreakers_.]
> Don’t try to fool people Mattie – it just shows how big a fool _you_
>are.
It has been common knowledge since around 1925 that the Zimmerman Note was a
British forgery.
Where have you been?
Or has the forgery become an article of faith among Holohuggers?
=====
There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing
There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 15:30:34 PDT 1996
Article: 66872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a chamber of cards – kr2a.jpg (1/1)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:42:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 1278
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
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