Documents

Giwer Matt, 5-1996 – p3

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 19:37:13 PDT 1996
Article: 64833 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:32:01 GMT
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On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 19:08:43 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >: Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this
>> >: holocaust of yours?
>>
>> >Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this Dresden
>> >firestorm of yours?
>>
>> I have posted it. Look it up.

>No you didn’t. You mentioned some clearly forged piece of alledged film
>supposedly taken from airplanes with no evidence of what it is they might
>be doing and where or when.

It has been posted. Look it up, braindead holohugger.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Than when you’re stealing

There’s no business like Shoah business
It’s like no business I know
Everything about it is misleading
Everything about it seems a fraud
Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
For more donations to their cause

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 19:37:14 PDT 1996
Article: 64837 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s little boy mind
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:42:04 GMT
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On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 21:09:14 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 13:54:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>>>>You forgot some datas; the main is that liquid HCN will fast
>>>>polymerize and for some other reasons will become quickly useless.
>>>>Liquid HCN is hazardous, but unstable too.

>>> Evidently it was shipped to Degesch. Do you have the
>>>polymerization times? Is it ten minutes, 10 hours, 10 days, 10 weeks?

>”Evidently”. The HCN was produced in Dessau and in Kolin; the
>stabilizer in Uerdingen. I don’t know if the stabilizer was sent to
>Dessau and Kolin, or the reverse. “Evidently”.

>The alteration is related to the traces of several products in the
>HCN. Mineral acids alters HCN if some water is present but have the
>reverse effect if there is no water at all.

>Even heat or light are to be avoided.

Don’t ask me. I did not post that. I only speak for myself.

>> Frankly it would be interesting to see the polymer structure and what
>>its effects are. Chemical polymerization does not necessarily mean
>>anything to what we are discussing.

>HCN is the nitrile (sorry, I doesn’t find the English word for
>”nitrile”: it’s any compound with CN in it) of the formic acid. The
>nitriles are very reactive (and in an natural state are seldom
>encountered if not in HCN, formic acid, itself). They polymerize in
>HCN the most often through two ways, depending on the alpha-H or the
>basic conditions. It’s difficult to draw you such a lot of chem
>diagrams here. But you can get different compounds with O2, propylene,
>NH3, etc..

>In fact the HCN is so unstable that even salts like KCN can be
>transformed and became unusable to kill somebody, in a matter of one
>or two years. For genuine, pure HCN, count three months as a maximum.

>Is that clearer ?

That is not a description of a polymer.

What to try again?

=====

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 19:37:16 PDT 1996
Article: 64850 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:48:19 GMT
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On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:47:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) whines:

># Actually I was posting a miserable lie accepted
># by the IMT.

>No, you poor old slob. You posted testimony which
>does not exist. No one gave that testimony. You
>intentionally lied and posted a non-existing
>testimony, which contains errors, in order to make
>it appear as if survivors lied in their testimonies.

Buzzer there. It is real IMT testimony. But you konw that.

Were you not trying to salvage your lies why would you object?

>You’re really a sick, revolting liar.

>Again: if you claim the testimony exists, post the
>name of the person who gave it. That’s a fair request,
>Matty, isn’t it?

>[Childish “satire” deleted]

It is repeated.

>You’re still an unemployed loser, Matty.

Me?

Just who is so vain as to have ot justify himself by the title of his
job?

Just who is it who is not a person without a job title?

You are nothing without your job. If you are fired you are nothing.

Your entire ego is involved with your employer.

After you have been a vicepresident and a president and CEO and
whatever you will be less impressed with titles. That is, if you ever
grow up.

=====

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 19:37:17 PDT 1996
Article: 64856 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Post Hitler ergo propter Hitler
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 00:57:26 GMT
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And other Jewish fantasies.

Then of course there it an earlier version, post Kaiser Wilhelm ergo
propter Kaiser Wilhelm.

And then the all time favorite, post Adam ergo propter Adam, of
Original Sin fame.

=====

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 21:36:23 PDT 1996
Article: 29312 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:21:23 GMT
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On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 00:21:36 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:34:41 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

># And you must remember that blood libels justify any response.

>Another legal opinion, Matt?

I was not aware there was any but Mosaic law involved in blood libels.

Or is there a limit?

Or is it the usual Mosaic thing where anything is justified?

You tell me your legal opinion.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 22:37:09 PDT 1996
Article: 64886 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:15:04 GMT
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On 9 Sep 1996 01:53:25 GMT, Laura Finsten wrote:

>Ourobouros wrote:

>[…]

>>Well perhaps you are prepared to fill the void and tell me were these
>>alleged victims were killed? Perhaps I will retract my comment if you do
>>so…

>In order to avoid further embarrassment to yourself by asking questions
>which so obviously demonstrate your ignorance on the subject, you might
>consider reading a book or two on the Holocaust, “Mr. Stone”. I highly
>recommend Gerald Fleming’s “Hitler and the Final Solution”, University
>of California Press, 1982.

And you would do well to read CODOH and others to save yourself from
continuing in the ignorance of holohuggery and continuing to look so
very foolish.

It is rather amazing that any educated person still believes such
things.

>”If I can’t dance….. I don’t want to be part of your revolution.”
> Emma Goldman

You mean “dance naked” don’t you? It is the recurring theme in
holohuggery.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 12 23:07:15 PDT 1996
Article: 64894 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Myshkin Lies Again (so what else is new?)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:32:26 GMT
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On 10 Sep 1996 05:07:34 GMT, [email protected] (Richard
Schultz) wrote:

>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:

>: >Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this Dresden
>: >firestorm of yours?

>: I have posted it. Look it up.

>No you haven’t. And you know that. Neither have you dealt with the
>eyewitness testimony to physically impossible events (e.g. melting people)
>that happened during this so-called firestorm. And you know that too.
>But keep up the good work. You certainly are an amusing chap.

I have posted it.

Look it up, stupid.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 01:07:43 PDT 1996
Article: 64900 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:33:08 GMT
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On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:53:29 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>## Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence
>## for this Dresden firestorm of yours?

># I have posted it. Look it up.

>None. Zero. Zilch.

>You’ve posted nothing. By the standards of your demands
>for “physical evidence” to the Holocaust, there is also no
>evidence whatsoever that Dresden was bombed.

You are stupid too. Look it up.

It is a dead issue. It is settled.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 01:07:43 PDT 1996
Article: 64902 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:31:12 GMT
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On Tue, 10 Sep 96 20:42:12 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[…]
>>>Er, Mr. Giwer, he compared Holocaust-“REVISIONISM” with UFO abductions, RSCA,
>>>and witchcraft – a comparison which is quite justified since Holocaust-“revisionism” works
>>>only on the assumption of a gigantic conspiracy…
>>>[…]

>> Revisionism is based upon the non-existance of physical evidence for
>>all the claimed attrocities and the absurdity of the claims of the
>>witnesses, such as the women dancing naked and the maniacal laughter
>>right out of B horror movies and the witchcraft trials.

>No, no, Mr. Giwer. “Revisiniosm” isn’t based on anything because it doesn’t put forward
>anything. “Revisionism” exhaust itself in questioning a general consensus without presenting
>any evidence why the commonly assumed standpoint should be wrong. “Revisionism” starts at
>and stops with plain denying. That’s all. Therefore “revisionism” is a matter entirely in the
>”revisionists” mind – a belief.

It is good that you again admit there is no physical evidence for the
holocaust and that “hearing maniacal laughter” over the sound of the
engines” is the only sort of thing that supports any belief in the
holocaust nonsense.

No physical evidence whatsoever, not a bit. And only melodramatic
nonsense in its favor.

It is interesting to see that you are unable to deal with the only
thing you have in favor of your favorite holocaust. Hug it well while
it lasts.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 01:07:44 PDT 1996
Article: 64913 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The footnote heard from
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:15:18 GMT
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On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 02:24:49 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> The Cry of a Deportee
>>
>> A 1940 Gaullist veteran of the Free French Forces (FFL), I was
>> arrested in October, 1943,
>> and deported for 18 months to Buchenwald, then to the hell of Dora,
>> where thousands of
>> French deportees lost their lives in the underground factories of V1
>> and V2. I returned
>> disabled.

>[snip]
>>
>> Let them know, too, that in France, there were about 250,000
>> deportees, of which about
>> 25,000 were French Jews. Between 80,000 and 100,000 returned, of which
>> about 15,000
>> were Jews.

>Estimates of Jewish losses for France, from Nora Levin, _The
>Holocaust_ (New York: Schocken, 1973):
>
> Estimates by Gerald Reitlinger, _The Final Solution_, 1953:
> Low: 60,000 High: 65,000

> Losses Estimated by Raul Hilberg, _The Destruction of the European
> Jews_, 1961: 70,000

I quoted fact, not fiction. You have more deaths than deportees.

>From the ‘Statistical Recapitulation of Jewish Deaths by Country’,
>Raul Hilberg, _The Destruction of the European Jews_ (abridged
>edition, New York: Holmes and Meier, 1985): 75,000

Hilberg is not an historian. Having an axe to grind makes it less
credible.

>> Nobody speaks about the non-Jewish deportees. Why?

>Nobody? From the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum website’s
>’Five Questions About the Holocaust’
>(http://www.ushmm.org/misc-bin/add_goback/education/5quest.html):

>’1. What was the Holocaust?

>’The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
>annihilation of European Jewry
>by the Nazi Germany and its collaborators between 1933 and 1945. In
>1933 approximately nine
>million Jews lived in the 21 countries of Europe that would be occ
>upied by Germany during World
>War II. By 1945 two out of every three European Jews had been killed.
>Jews were the primary
>victims — six million were murdered; Roma (Gypsies), the handicapped
>and Poles were also
>targeted for destruction or decimation for racial, ethnic or national
>reasons. Millions more,
>including Soviet prisoners of war, political dissidents, homosexuals
>and Jehovah’s Witnesses
>suffered grievous oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.

Ah, yes, the footnote to the Jewish tragedy.

>[…]

>’3. Why did the Nazis want to kill large numbers of innocent people?

>’The Nazis believed that Germans were “racially superior” and that
>there was a struggle for survival
>between them and “inferior races.” Jews, Roma (Gypsies) and the
>handicapped were seen as a
>serious biological threat to the purity of the “German (Aryan) Race”
>and therefore had to be
>”exterminated.” The Nazis blamed the Jews for Germany’s defeat in
>World War I, for its economic
>problems and for the spread of Communist parties throughout Europe.
>Slavic peoples (Poles,
>Russians and others) were also consi dered “inferior” and destined to
>serve as slave labor for their
>German masters. Communists, Socialists, Jehovah’s Witnesses,
>homosexuals and Free Masons
>were persecuted, imprisoned and often killed on political and
>behavioral (rather than racial) grounds
>. Sometimes the distinction was not very clear. Millions of Soviet
>Prisoners of War perished from
>starvation, disease and forced labor or were killed for racial
>political reasons.’

>[end quote]

That is two. Where are the French? Are they a footnote to the
footnote to the Jewish tragedy?

>>There is a lot of
>> talk about Shoah,
>> but nothing about the underground factories of V1 and V2 in Dora,
>> where thousands of
>> French deportees died of exhaustion and bad treatment. Dora, too, was
>> a camp of
>> extermination, by work and by hunger.

>See
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/buchenwald/press/reuters-040395.html

>[snip]

>> There is no talk about this, either. So why talk only about Jews’
>> sacrifices and conceal the
>> martyrdom of other deportees? They, too, have the right to memory.

>See above.

>[snip]

>> We cannot accept that deportation be monopolized by some and that
>> journalists who have
>> known neither deportation nor war be permitted such manipulation.

>Odd to see Mr. Giwer supporting the importance of witness testimony.
>>
>> Gaston Pernot
>> Doctor of Law
>> Commander of the Legion of Honor, Paris
>> (“Le Figaro,” Friday, May 3, 1996)

>[lengthy, tedious, and ungrammatical sig snipped]

>Laurinda Stryker

And the best you have is one frigging news article.

Actually the issue is that the French, unlike the Jews, are mature
enough to put it behind them.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 01:07:45 PDT 1996
Article: 64927 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The importance of being “anti-semitic”
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:10 GMT
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On 7 Sep 1996 18:03:25 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) writes:

>>>ah yes. Another jewish holocauster justifying the deliberate murdering
>of
>>>34 American servicemen on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israelis.

>>And here’s Kurt Stele, saying that it’s supposed to be safe for an
>unarmed spy
>>ship to sail into a war zone. Not only is it supposed to be safe now,
>but it
>>was supposed to have been safe almost thirty years ago, and that the
>whole
>>Jewish community should hang its head in collective guilt because it
>wasn’t
>>safe.

>>Pfui.

>>Let me put it this way, Kurt: your mother swims after troop ships. Your

>>sister’s lips go in and out with the tide.

>I like Joel. He and I agree on certain things.

>I say we use Joel Rosenberg’s rationale:

>”Even if the Holohoax did happen it was unsafe for Jews to be in German
>society. After all, their interests were at odds with the German people.
>What is more, the alleged Holohoax occurred during WWII. It was a world
>war. Certainly jews were in the zone of danger, being in Europe.
>Therefore any and all atrocities committed on them under Holocaust Tale,
>had they occurred, would have been justified.”

>I love it. It plays like a symphony.

As long as it is Jews doing the butchering it is OK. After all, they
are on a mission from god.

>Jews don’t want their people to “hang its head in collective guilt” over
>having butchering Americans and Palestinians. Yet jews want the German
>people to “hang its head in collective guilt” over hoax-atrocities
>committed “during wartime.” Come now, Joel: I thought you said it’s OK to
>commit atrocities during wartime, if done in a war zone? Your mother
>swimming and your sister’s lips and all that.

>I like your analogy.

>I’m glad that you, like myself, find that Germans -aren’t- collectively
>responsible, despite what your ilk holds.

>But now that you agree, do ya think you could convince your people to give
>back just a few of those billions in guilt-shekels jews have wrongly
>extracted from German and American goyim based on “collective guilt”?
>After all, if it’s in wartime and they were in the zone of danger, then
>the hoax-German atrocities would have been OK, even if they had been true.

>Sometimes jewish hypocrisy bites itself in the butt.

They make good butt biters but not much else.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 01:07:46 PDT 1996
Article: 64931 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 7 Sep 1996 18:15:31, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>>From: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
>>Date: 7 Sep 1996 22:57:41 GMT

>>>
>>rblackmore writes to mark van alstine re: Goering’s Commission to Heydrich:
>>>
>>The debate on this question was over a long time ago. You lost.
>>It’s time to move on.

>>”If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe the message?”

>>For a refreshing breath of fresh air, visit: http://codoh.com/

>Let me guess: you live facedown in a sewer. And the rats complain about your
>smell…

Another intellectual Jewish response from a support of traitorous
jews.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:48 PDT 1996
Article: 64980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Does the “A-Team” get paid?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:20:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50nsa8[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 3:21:12 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Excuse me, stupid handle, Schwartz can speak for herself.

When you get a real name, get back to me.

On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 21:34:53 -0600, [email protected] (Bodhisattva)
wrote:

>In the hope of saving Ms. Schwartz from having to dignify this trash with
>a response:

>Giwer, the following truly shows you for what you are: a big ol’ slimy
>piece of detritus. How can you look at yourself in the morning after
>spending all day, not only lying, but also insulting people with your
>lies?

>Do you clean your mother’s chamberpot with the same fingers that type
>these messages??? For shame!

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 09:44:14 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >Bodhisattva wrote:
>>
>> >> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >> (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Fri, 06 Sep 1996 16:48:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >And once again, Mr. Giwer, my 9 year old has a higher IQ than you
>do. And
>> >> > >is functionally literate, which you are not.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sorry about that but it stands. Unless he is following this
>> >> > conference with comprehension, it is impossible for him to resent
>> >> > anything said in this conference.
>> >>
>> >> What a putz!
>> >>
>> >Yep. Having no leg to stand on on the subject of revisionism, Mr. Giwer
>> >has now decided to attack me and my son.
>>
>> You are the one who decided to use your son as part of this
>> discussion.

>No, and here is the above-referenced lie. Someone (not you) mentioned an
>ill-formed (yet not ill-willed) conception of autism and Ms. Schwartz was
>simply trying to correct the misconception. She then made an apt
>comparison (contrast, actually) between you and her son. It is you who
>began picking on a nine-year old, you puss.

>> Obviously, you have no better use for him.

>Matt, you are the only one here who thinks about people in terms of their “use.”
>
>> After all, he is only something that you are disgusted in having to
>> love.
>>
>> But now you have a use for him to pay you back for all the effort he
>> has forced you to endure.
>>
>> A typical Jew mother.

>And you say you’re not anti-Semitic.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64987 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:59:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 178
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50u[email protected]> <511dhi$p[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 3:00:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:59:53 GMT, [email protected] (Angus M.
McLellan) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 8 Sep 1996 16:01:04 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>> Samples of Lyin’ Al’s appreciation of the nazis:
>>> 1. Hilter was not a racist
>> No more than Jews are racists.

>No doubt Mr Giwer can hardly restrain himself from posting the
>evidence which will support this assertion.

Apologized for by the Israeli governemnt after the murders at Qana,
the statements that “they are only Arabs” by the gunnery crew do not
represent the official view of the Israeli government, although it
does appear to represent the unofficial view.

After all, the camp was targeted and no one has been punished for
doing so.

>> Consider the vile bastard Pollack who deserves death instead of
>>imprisonment. The disgusting Jew traitor.

>Is there something particular about Pollard’s case which leads Giwer
>to believe that he committed a greater treason than other spies in
>recent US history?

No, they are equally vile bastards. It is the defense of him by
Israel on the basis of his being a Jew that makes Israel and Jews
worse.

I must confess that I can see little reason for
>harsher treatment of Pollard than Ames, the Walkers or the TRW duo and
>considerable reason for leniency. Those of a suspicious nature may
>well see this apparent inconsistency as motivated by Mr Giwer’s
>antisemitism.

Whether you see it or not is only your problem. He is a vile Jew
traitor and so is Israel for their deliberate spying upon the US and
it certainly justifies a military response for such spying. That is
the excuse for the murders Israel committed on the crew of the
Liberty.

Israel is murdering scum and it is about time the US realized that
Israel is only a friend when it is in their favor. If not in their
favor, they are cold blooded murderers.

>>> 2. Kristallnacht was a spontaneous event rather than one instigated
>>>by the nazi party.
>> Pollard is a Jew traitor.

>Ames and the Walkers are WASP traitors. I must confess that I cannot
>see what bearing Pollard’s conduct has on the Kristallnacht. How did
>Pollard’s treason influence events which took place fifty years
>beforehand ?

If you can not see it, then it is because you do not want to see it.

>>> 3. No one died during Kristallnacht.
>> Pollard is alive because of misdirected laws.

>Pollard is alive because other traitors, ones who passed secrets to
>the USA’s No.1 enemy rather than a wayward ally, are still alive as
>well. Executing Pollard and not Ames, the Walkers or the TRW duo would
>be, as far as I can see, a double standard in action. Surely Giwer
>wouldn’t be calling for this because Pollard is a Jew ?

Pollard, upon review of what he SOLD for CASH and NOT for any loyalty
was judged worse. So what?

He sold out his country for money. He is not worth mentioning. What
do you want?

He is a Jew. Israel defends him. He was paid.

It has to be something about Jews.

Any rational Jewish organization against another “holocaust” would
never, ever promote traitors to begin with much less for money. This
has promoted two stereotypes, 1) Jews are loyal to Jews not to their
nation and 2) that they will do anything for money.

If it had been left alone then it would have died.

But that Israel supports him and tries to get his release even it was
only for money and that he put his loyalty to Israel above the US and
his OATH of office taken before god does nothing but spell out the
kind of scum both he and Israel are.

>>> 4. The continuation of WW II was the result of the rejection by
>>>Churchill of Hitler’s “magnanimous” offer of peace terms.
>> Pollard is a jew traitor who worked for the traitorous state of
>>Israel.

>I fail to see how a state can be “traitorous”. As a general rule,
>self-interest dictates who is spied upon and by whom. If the heads of
>Israel’s secret services believed that Pollard’s espionage served the
>best interests of Israel, they would surely have been deficient in
>their duty had they not accept him as a spy for Israel. Likeiwse, is
>Giwer suggesting that the USA is “traitorous” for having spied on it’s
>allies ?

The US does not spy on its allies. Other than that, Pollack deserves
summary execution.

>> No one supporting Pollard is an American, even YFE.
>> YFE was never considered an American.

>I have no interest in supporting Pollard or not. But it does seem that
>Mr Giwer is more interested in Pollard’s case than that of Ames or the
>Walkers, whose treachery (from where I’m sitting) appears blacker.
>This surely has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Pollard
>spied for Israel.

I agree that all spy cases are separate and distinct. So what is your
point?

>> YFE is only a Jew. Being a Jew supporting Israeli murder is
>>unamerican.

>> Anyone doing so is deserving of only a speedy trial and a slow
>>exectuion. YFE and Pollard are in the same camp.

>So, Mr Giwer decides what and what is not unamerican. Does Giwer
>believe that he is Tailgunner Joe reborn ? This is entirely credible
>given Giwer’s unedfiying behaviour in this newsgroup.

I did not say unamerican but then all spies against America are
clearly unamerican. They deserve only death. It is not my fault the
law dictates otherwise.

>Frankly, I couldn’t give a hoot what happened to the Liberty,

I did not think you would, it is an American thing.

nor for
>the US Government cover-up or the Israeli Government’s evasions on the
>subject. It appears to me that the USA was engaged via the Liberty in
>what Giwer deplores Israel doing through Pollard – spying on it’s
>allies. It further appears that the Israelis committed serious errors,

Murder is not an error.

>just as a Qana and just like Qana refused to admit their incompetence.
>Does the USA do differently ? [Can you spell V-I-N-C-E-N-N-E-S ?]

Qana was deliberate murder.

>If Mr Giwer wishes to change US policy towards Israel, I suggest that
>he does so in a US-specific political newsgroup. Mr Giwer’s views on
>Israel have no discernable relevance to this newsgroup.

Then why are you responding here?

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:51 PDT 1996
Article: 65007 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:45 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:00:19 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> In the Holocaust book “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp” we
>are given a photo with the caption: “Arrival and selection of
>Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, 1944. Credit: Yad Vashim, Jeruselem”.

The “credit” should go to the photographer or his employer. In this
case the credit goes to Yad Vashim for the creative caption. Of
course it begs the questions, how do you know they are Jews? how do
you know they are Hungarian? and how do you know what is going on?

> The word “selection” is Holocaust vernacular is always used to
>designate those who are selected to go to the gas chamber.

> This photo shows a couple of hundred people on a landing along
>side of rail tracks in the Auschwitz camp, which are seperated into
>men and women.

> We are to assume from the “selection” word that either all the
>women are to go off to the gas chamber but not the men, or vice versa,
>when in fact the camp was segregated into mens camp and womens camp.

> The ground level platform is only a couple of hundred yards
>inside of the towered entrance to the camp which is distinctly seen in
>the back ground. This would mean that the newly arrived prisoners were
>not unloaded in the immediate area of Cremas II and III where the
>tracks terminate within the camp, another 7 or 8 hundred yards on down
>the track from this photo location.

> Contrary to Holocaust facts that say the procedure took place at
>night, the photo shows these people unloaded in broad daylight.

> Also obvious is the womens camp in the righthand background, with
>the fence that is clearly visible just 60 or 70 feet away. We can see
>right through this fence to the womens barracks, which are just
>another 60 or 70 feet away. This would mean that 12,000 people a day
>were unloaded in clear view of the prisoners barracks contrary to
>Holocaust facts that assert the whole operation was concealed from the
>rest of the camp.

> This would mean that on an average, 12,000 people a day had to
>march down the 6 to 7 hundred yards to the Cremas II and III areas,
>past the rest of the camp, mens on one side and womens on the other.

> This would be day after day, week after week, month after month,
>12,000 people a day would parade past the rest of the camp never to
>show up as new prisoners.

> Idiotic Holocaust facts have it that Treblinka was built out in a
>obscure area so as to hide the mass extermination that is alleged to
>have taken place there, yet after this one was destroyed the Germans
>chose Auschwitz for the new exrtermination center, right there between
>two Polish towns in a camp that had 100,000 prisoners and used 1000
>civilian workers from these towns.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65023 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:52:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 5:53:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:16:51 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>[snip]

>Liar, on both counts. It has NEVER been the policy of ‘revisionists’ to
>support their claims with tangible evidence, nor has any evidence ever
>been produced to support the groundless claim made by troll
>jbelling/rblackmore.

Nor is it policy to waste time with fools.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65032 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:48:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50v2p2[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 6:49:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:03:08 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 8 Sep 1996 11:20:18 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>> OBC) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Ourobouros wrote:
>>
>> >>3. Simon Wiesanthal has stated that no concentration camps were on
>> >>German soil.

>[snip]
>>
>> >No, Mr. Wiesenthal has not said that no concentration camps
>> >were on German soil. Once again, Mr. “Stone” lies, just as he
>> >did when he claimed that someone, somewhere, had asserted that
>> >the Nazis transported 12 million people into concentration
>> >camps during a 6 year period.
>>
>> As km[email protected] knows, Wiesethal not only said it but he
>> got pissed when I quoted it with URL right from the SWC website.

>[snip]

>Mr. Giwer:

>From the SWC website (URL of text quoted:
>http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/gloss.htm):

>’CONCENTRATION CAMPS
> Immediately upon their assumption of power on January 30, 1933,
>the Nazis established
> concentration camps for the imprisonment of all “enemies” of
>their regime: actual and
> potential political opponents (e.g. communists, socialists,
>monarchists), Jehovah’s
> Witnesses, gypsies, homosexuals, and other “asocials.”
>Beginning in 1938, Jews were
> targeted for internment solely because they were Jews. Before
>then, only Jews who fit one
> of the earlier categories were interned in camps.

In 1942 American citizens of Japanese descent were forced into
concentration camps solely because of the “race.” So what is your
point?

The first
>three concentration camps
> established were Dachau (near Munich), Buchenwald (near Weimar)
>and Sachsenhausen
> (near Berlin).’
>

>Please note the final sentence.

Where does it say there were gas chambers in the final sentence? No
where. Want to try again?

No, you do not. You wish to promote that lie that KZ (or internment
camp) means gas chambers.

>You will say, of course, that this is not the SWC URL you posted. But
>you posted no such URL in support of your assertions.

That is not the one I posted months ago. Look up that one.

>You are lying. But this is nothing new:

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitte
>d.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

Anything out of context can be made to look other than it is. It is
the kind of lying that Nizkor engages in.

>[sophomoric and overlong .sig deleted]

It’s back.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:53 PDT 1996
Article: 65034 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:04:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:06:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43082 alt.revisionism:65034

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:42:23 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 01:20:41 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
>> wrote:

>[snip]

>> Months ago, I asked of anyone had an exact breakdown of the numbers in
>> the camps, by camp, and outside of the camps. Not one holohugger
>> responded. Those that did resond implied they knew but would not say.

>Speaking for myself: in my personal library I do not have a breakdown
>that includes non-Jewish victims of the Nazis. This does not, of
>course, mean that none is available. However, Raul Hilberg’s _The
>Destruction of the European Jews_ does contain a table giving this
>information for the Jewish victims of the Nazis. The table is ‘Table
>B-1: Deaths by Cause’; in the abridged edition (Holmes & Meier, 1985),
>it is on page 338.

I am asking for a breakdown by camp and by not in camps. However if
you would like to post that table it will be of interest.

>> Of course there is an obvious reason for this refusal.
>>
>> It has to do with the same total before and after Auschwitz was
>> reduced by 3 million.

>I’m not even going to suggest _you’re_ being disingenous, Mr. Giwer.
>You are lying. The inflated figure of four million was claimed by the
>Soviets but not by Holocaust scholars; their total has been
>consistently the same.

Excuse me. You claim the number has always been the same. Therefore
prior to the revision the total was

4 million + others = 6 million

After the revision it was

1 million + others = 6 million

Please explain which of the “others” increased at the same time
Auschwitz decreased. It is simple arithmetic. The “others” has to
have increased by 3 million. Which ones did?

Of course you will find that none of them did. You will also find
that the numbers never did add up.

You will also find that the 6 and 12 million numbers were completely
arbitrary and taken from the 31 million untraceable (not necessarily
dead simply untraceable) people after the war.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:54 PDT 1996
Article: 65035 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:55:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <50te[email protected]> <51[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 5:56:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 17:56:51 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 8 Sep 1996 03:28:15 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >That’s right, Mr. Blackmore. Declare victory, and pull out.
>:
>: The holohugger tactic of rehashing old subjects every few months has
>: been long indentified and there is no interest in playing that game
>: any longer.
>:
>: A subject that has been discussed and concluded is a matter of record.
>: There is no value to going over it again and wasting time on it.
>:
>: Get used to it.

>In other words, “declare victory and pull out.” It’s okay to say it,
>Matt. We all know.

>Welcome back, by the way. Did you have to promise to stop mailbombing?

No. I simply explained that I did not at any time mailbomb and that
you folks were lying about what happened. The truth works.

You folks should try it some time.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:55 PDT 1996
Article: 65036 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:50:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 5:51:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 21:15:16 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 11 Sep 1996 02:24:17 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>
>> > The report of a forensic pathologist on the autopsies and visual
>> >surveys he performed (roughly in a 1:3 ratio) constitute a a valid post mortem
>> >medical report. Larson’s report is well-known. It was used both in evidence
>and
>> >was later presented to Congressional hearings where it became part of the
>> >record.
>
>> > Now who is topping you from reading them?

>
>> Not one forensic report posted.

> The conclusions from the report were, in fact, posted.

We have been over the hearsay that was reported. Not one mention was
made of any autopsey.

>> That is what is expected.

> Who cares what *you* expect.

Only when what I expect is what happens. You know there are no
autopsey reports showing HCN poisoning. Therefore you folks will only
claim there are such reports in hopes of finding a way to divert the
discussion.

No autopsies showing gassing, no gassing.

Absent further evidence, there are none.

Case closed. Lets move on.

You may reopen the suject when you find some reports to post.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:56 PDT 1996
Article: 65037 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:15:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:17:00 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:43:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

># Typhus continued to kill to a lower extent after 1942.

>So why did the camp need four new, huge crematoriums,
>completed in 1943? But you do know the answer, right?

>But never mind… keep playing your idiotic games. You
>must enjoy them.

>Nice to see, however, that you don’t post any more lies
>about Richard Baer. At least we have cleared that one.

># that this was done in the undressing room, they had no
># choice to remove there clothes and this was the normal
># place to do it.

>What rubbish. You’re saying a huge cellar was built especially
>for undressing the corpses? They couldn’t just undress them
>in the morgue? They had to build this huge cellar, called
>the “undressing room”, undress the corpses there, and then
>move them to the “morgue”… can you really be so stupid
>to believe this?

According to the Nizkor pictures the undressing room was above ground
in K II and III. Nizkor also claims the same building was used for
gassing at K IV and V. So where are you getting this cellar crap?

>It’s simply amazing to see what level of insanity these
>people reach when trying to distort reality. But Beaulieu
>has not yet gone as far as Leuchter, who suggested that the
>”gassing cellar” was really the furnace room, which was being
>heated by the furnaces, and that Bischoff wanted the corpses
>placed there so they “would not freeze”!!

>What a bunch of crazies.

You mean like the people who use the entire size of the LK for gas
estimates and then claim there were two rooms in it when in fact there
were five? Let me guess? You want to major in math when you get to
college.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:57 PDT 1996
Article: 65038 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Order of Tampa Bay
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:12:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:13:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Proudly display on your screen a certificate certifying your title as
a member of the Order of Tampa Bay. You will be permitted to sign
Your Name, OTB.

Impress your neighbors, wow the internet.

Inquiries invited.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:58 PDT 1996
Article: 65040 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:36:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 2:37:05 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

He has claimed that I mailbombed him.

But he is a liar in making that claim.

And he is too cowardly to respond for himself.

And no one speaking for him is permitted.

McVay is a liar.

He is the scum of the earth and a DOD/CIA employee and Grynspan of the
Mossad mailbombs in his defense.

He is holohugging scum. lower than Dahlman and Grynspan.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:59 PDT 1996
Article: 65045 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Unitied States sailors got what they deserved.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:26:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32357e8a.46[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:27:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:47:46 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>> Poor Annie Alpert.

>>Kurt Stele wrote:

>>34 dead, 171 casualties. A massacre all the same.
>>Where is the U.S.S. Liberty monument in Washington D.C.? Where is the
>>Shpielberg films about it?

>>Annie Alpert replied:

>>”For the record, the USS Liberty was engaged in spying against our
>>ally (whether you like to admit it or not). The Liberty was a spy
>>ship. Israel is our ally. Read it and weep.”

>> Now all we have to do is wait and see if she thinks we should
>>bomb Israel for their spying on us, as reported in recent CIA report.

>> Annie has posted she is not Jewish, that she has blonde hair and
>>blue eyes. Maybe she’s one of those who fancies a job in Hollywood.

> On reading Annie’s applause for the Jewish state’s wanton attack
>on our USS Liberty I think of “Tokyo Rose” and “Mata Hari”.

If she claim US citizenship, traitor will do.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:38:59 PDT 1996
Article: 65046 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It is all in the image
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:48:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:49:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Of interest today is that Germany taking over the Rhineland is
presented as something that every nation took notice of and condemned.

In fact, at the time Germany moved on the Rhineland, Italy’s conquest
of Ethiopia using poison gas had the headlines and the diplomatic
limelight. That means there was no resources to devote to Germany’s
actions at the time.

=====

As we can see, it is all in how one looks at it. It is how
government’s control public opinion.

Another example is the German “invasion” of Poland. Rather what
Germany invaded was that part of Germany that had been given to Poland
as a result of WW I. England’s promise to defend Poland was not that
but rather a promise to defend the partition of Germany as established
by the Treaty of Versailles.

It was against the reunification of Germany not in favor of Poland.
This explains England’s selective declaration of war against Germany
but not against Russia that took over what was left and which was
never part of Germany.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:39:00 PDT 1996
Article: 65054 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,can.general,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Zundel cancelled: Call, thank station management!
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:23:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <518b[email protected]> <518bek$b[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:25:03 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2875 alt.revisionism:65054 can.general:90791 soc.culture.jewish:73594

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:09:25 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>>An American radio station which had broadcast Ernst Zundel’s
>>propaganda program for some time has, according to Zundel
>>apologist Ingrid Rimland, tossed the program, and Mr. Zundel,
>>into the bit bucket.
>>
>>I urge you, one and all, to call the station and congratulate
>>them on having the good sense to terminate this pollution.
>>
>>The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.
>>
>>Ask for Mr. Morehead, and thank him for his action. You’ll be
>>glad you did.

> Poor McVay, he’s so weak, cowardly and inept. He can’t stand it
>that his opposition might have their say.

I prefer sanctimonious, lying hypocrit myself but to each his own.

We know clearly now that he is a liar and has no problem with making
complaining phone calls solely for the purpose of lying about people.
Not to mention [email protected] showing that Nizkor is hosted
by a US Department of Defense internet site.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:39:01 PDT 1996
Article: 65058 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the usual suspects
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:53:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:54:26 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:37:25 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Joel
>Rosenberg) wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>> >Subject: the usual suspects
>> >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:54:58 GMT
>>
>> > [email protected] tells me that he spoke with only two outside
>> >people about the recent problem. One of the them is the webmaster at
>> >Nizkor and the other is YFE. That means that the list of suspects
>> >regarding the harrassing phonecalls this morning are narrowed down to
>> >those two people.
>>
>> Is it possible that you could be a little less incoherent?
>>
>> What, if any, problem are you actually alleging happened? If you’re really
>> being hassled by somebody, I’d at least like to know what it is that I’m
>> laughing about.

>I think the Giwer-boob is trying to blame Mr. McVay and/ or Mr. Edeiken
>for the fact that he was taken to task by his ISP for net abuse. The
>Giwer-boob evidently tried to mailbomb Nizkor and now that he is hoist by
>his own petard, now attempts blames others for his craven acts.

I have been over that lie with NETCOM. It is another Nizkor lie that
believed by holohuggers because they are such a gullible lot of fools.

After all, I am here, am I not? You little fool.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:39:02 PDT 1996
Article: 65063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the usual suspects
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:04:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 9:05:27 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 21:05:22 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> [email protected] tells me that he spoke with only two outside
>> people about the recent problem. One of the them is the webmaster at
>> Nizkor and the other is YFE. That means that the list of suspects
>> regarding the harrassing phonecalls this morning are narrowed down to
>> those two people.

> The problems I talked to him about were:

> 1. Your mailbombing of Nizkor. Which netcom.abuse found to have
>happened.

Then you lied to Netcom. Yes, you are a liar.

> 2. Your extortion attempt against Nizkor: Which netcom.abuse found
>to have happened.

Again, you lied to Netcom.

> 3. Your various threats of violence. Which netcom.abuse found to be
>to vague for them to act upon.

Again, you lied to Netcom.

> 4. The various abusive e-mails you have sent to various people
>including me. You have been warned by netcom.abuse to stop this practice.

Again, you lied to Netcom.

> We also discussed the accusations *you* made that Gyrnspyn was
>working for Nizkor. Netcom.abuse decided that you were in error.

Again, you lied to Netcom

>> One of them is involved in the abusive and harrassing and criminal
>> phonecalls or knows who is at the minimum.

> The only person that I know of who was harrasssing others was named
>”Matt Giwer.” Netcom.abuse agreed.

Based upon the presumption that your lies were true there is nothing
anyone could do but agree.

But you did not tell one truth in your phone call.

BTW: Was it you or Nizkor (with whom you coordinated the phone calls
to make them sound more important) who made the claim that there was a
private investigation of my imagined “threats”? Why did you not claim
there was an FBI investigation and that you had talked to an FBI agent
as you have done in public here?

Just how gullible do you think people are?

Do you realize how many stories of the antics of you holohuggers I can
get mailed to NETCOM just for the asking?

That is a good idea. I will ask that people send stories of the past
antics of the holohuggers on this conference regarding getting people
kicked of the internet and the like. I have already provided them
with my last ISP so they can verify the harrassment campaign against
him.

You folks should learn your limits. Rather you should have learned
them. It is too late now.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:39:03 PDT 1996
Article: 65066 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Work Camp’ With Five Crematoriums?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:46:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:47:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:52:33 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>In continuation to the previous thread, I would still
>like our “revisionist scholars” to explain the following:

>Why does a “work camp” need five huge crematoriums with
>52 cremation furnaces?

>Did anyone ever hear of a “work camp” with such incredible
>cremation capacity?

Considering how long cremation really takes it is surprising they got
by with so few given the failure rate that is reported. Even the
holohugger report them not be very reliable, always down for repair.

It is only “too many” when the holohugger cremation time and their
fantasy 100% duty cycle are considered.

But then it is not uncommon to find holohuggers posting information
against their pet fantasies.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 09:39:04 PDT 1996
Article: 65074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day…
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:02:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:03:34 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:57:19 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>> “When someone has in the mind the liquidation of hundreds of thousands
>> of people, he’s hardly ordering colorimetric gas testers by bunch
>> of ten”
>>
>> -Confucius

>”When one has in mind to test the aeration capability of the ventilation
>system of a homicidal gas chamber prior to the liquidation of hundreds of
>thousands of people, one would surely order ten gas detectors.”

When one has dozens of delousing chambers for clothing one certainly
needs dozens of detectors of the gas.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 10:54:57 PDT 1996
Article: 65082 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More real true things that really happened
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:45:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:46:49 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

THIS IS YOUR IMT: Let Them Make Bricks WIthout Straw

*And Pharaoh commanded the same day … saying, Ye shall no more give
the
people straw to make brick, as heretofore; let them gather straw for
themselves*
[Exodus, V:6-7]

in August, 1942, the prisoners were ordered by the German
staff of
the
camp to have all of their hair removed from their armpits and around
their
genitals, as otherwise they would be shot. Not one prisoner received
a
razor
from the Germans, though the Germans knew well that they had none.
The
prisoners spent the whole night plucking out their hair with their
hands and
assisting one another. However, in the morning the guards killed
four
prisoners and wounded three by rifle fire.

IMT VII, p. 433

—–

It is really amazing what holohuggers truly believe.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 10:54:58 PDT 1996
Article: 65091 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: and do not forget
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:10:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 9:12:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 21:06:35 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Nitskor is a German derivative word.

> “Nitskor” may be. “Nizkor” is Hebrew.

Right. All Yid is Hebrew.

I once knew a Jew who insisted that Fenster was Hebrew.

He also insisted there was no connection between German and Yiddish.

It is amazing how far you folks will go to lie.

In fact the person I am referring to spent a year in Saudi (lying
about his religion) to work for them. After all, it was money. That
is also what I have come to expect.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 10:54:59 PDT 1996
Article: 65094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:00:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:01:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 13:04:22 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 12 Sep 1996 17:56:51 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>> anderson) wrote:

>> >Welcome back, by the way. Did you have to promise to stop mailbombing?
>
>> No. I simply explained that I did not at any time mailbomb and that
>> you folks were lying about what happened. The truth works.

> As a matter of fact, Giwer is lying. The mailbomb is public. He sent it.
>Necom.com agreed that it was a mailbomb.

But at the time they agreed they did not know that Ken McVay requested
the information I sent him. Now that they know that my only agreement
is that I will not give answers that are “too long” despite what is
requested.

No rational person, i.e. only a holohugger, is stupid enough to think
that people wil believe him when it was a set up.

McVay requested everything I sent him. He lies if he says otherwise.

As you lie about things beyond you knowledge.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 12:38:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65102 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mem.bellsouth.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: speaking cowards
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:02:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:03:53 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

There is the IDF that murdered crew members of the Liberty and of
refugees at Qana.

Murdering Jews under the guise of IDF.

Death to them all.

It is justice.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 12:38:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65112 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Dear Alec Grynspan
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:56:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:58:12 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

That which does not destroy us makes us stronger.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 13:40:12 PDT 1996
Article: 65118 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:32:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:33:34 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:29:48 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>Matty! You’re back! I thought you may have found a job,
>but, well, one has to be realistic…

Gee, and I thought you had been admitted to grad school.

But you liars did not win this round.

Clearly I received two harrassing phone calls about a private matter
between me an my ISP. So there is no question in the mind of netcom
that there is a conspiracy going on unless of course YFE or the
webmale at Nizkor is the source of the the harrassing phone calls.

Or maybe you are the criminal.

It does not matter to me. All of you holohuggers are in criminal
conspiracy as your own words admit.

But more to the point, a 36 hour absense could not be considered
having been gone unless “the word was spread” by you folk.

You folks are so stupid that you can not even cover your own ass in
your lying claims about what happened.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 13:40:13 PDT 1996
Article: 65126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Revisionist control alt.revisionism
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:29:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 11:30:53 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

If there was any question of who was in charge of this confernce read
it and weep, holohuggers.

You folks have shot your biggest wad and lost.

Want to go for broke?
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 13:40:14 PDT 1996
Article: 65127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mem.bellsouth.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where’s Giwer?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:36:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:38:03 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:29:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Mittleman)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>Where’s Giwer?

> With Waldo.

Right here, idiot holohugger.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 13:40:15 PDT 1996
Article: 65129 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mem.bellsouth.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:26:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:27:16 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43101 alt.revisionism:65129

On 13 Sep 1996 08:36 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:42:23 +0000, Laurinda Stryker

>>>> It has to do with the same total before and after Auschwitz was
>>>> reduced by 3 million.
>>
>>>I’m not even going to suggest _you’re_ being disingenous, Mr. Giwer.
>>>You are lying. The inflated figure of four million was claimed by the
>>>Soviets but not by Holocaust scholars; their total has been
>>>consistently the same.
>>
>> Excuse me. You claim the number has always been the same. Therefore
>>prior to the revision the total was
>>
>> 4 million + others = 6 million
>>
>> After the revision it was
>>
>> 1 million + others = 6 million
>>
>> Please explain which of the “others” increased at the same time
>>Auschwitz decreased. It is simple arithmetic. The “others” has to
>>have increased by 3 million. Which ones did?
>>
>> Of course you will find that none of them did. You will also find
>>that the numbers never did add up.
>>
>> You will also find that the 6 and 12 million numbers were completely
>>arbitrary and taken from the 31 million untraceable (not necessarily
>>dead simply untraceable) people after the war.

> As Tommy has asserted this point for several months now, there is a
> Nizkor FAQ discussion which clearly demonstrates the fallaciousness of
> the troll’s assertions.

We agree that Nizkor is run by a DOD contractor. Beyond that, we also
know he is a professed liar.

McVay has lied to NETCOM at least through his ego-bereft minions who
can only support MCVAY! MCVAY! MCVAY! Sieg Heil!

Why would you folks deny that McVay requested what I sent him?

Why would he deny that he did in fact request what he was sent?

I admit it was a clever set up.

And I further agree I fell for it.

But now you see, after two months the holohuggers are attempting to
cover up for Alec Grynspan major mail bombing of me. It is a trivial
matter and the evidence the holohuggers work together to create false
and lying allegations has been provided to netcom.

And everytime you folks post your nonsense you dig a deeper hole.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 13:40:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65130 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!cumin.telecom.uqam.ca!news.mcgill.ca!mcrcim.mcgill.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Look.. Giwer’s being an idiot again… Re: the usual suspects
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:47:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:48:23 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:27:59 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> [email protected] tells me that he spoke with only two outside
>> people about the recent problem. One of the them is the webmaster at
>> Nizkor and the other is YFE. That means that the list of suspects
>> regarding the harrassing phonecalls this morning are narrowed down to
>> those two people.

>Are you suffering some sort of brain tumor ?

>> One of them is involved in the abusive and harrassing and criminal
>> phonecalls or knows who is at the minimum.

>Lack of proof is your trademark, isn’t it ?

>> But then, they are holohuggers and have no morals.

>[incoherent .sig deleted]
Idiot handle posts again

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:22:05 PDT 1996
Article: 65136 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If Ole walks like a duck, and Ole talks like a….
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:28:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <517k[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 9:29:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:05:08 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Fine, McVay. If the Germans are indeed a sovereign people with the right
>> to pass laws imprisoning Lauck for his thoughts, then certainly the
>> Germans in the 1930’s had the right to pass laws deporting Jews. You just
>> said they are a sovereign people with the right to pass laws.

>The problem with this assertion little man, is that a sovereign people in
>Germany passed no such laws. Anti-semetic actions which led to the
>systematic extermination of over 6 million Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and
>political prisoners, were initiated by the Nazi party, which came to power
>not by a passive application of the electoral/legal process, but by an
>active campaign of terrorism which, as you might recall, included that
>little fire in the Reichstag (sic) and the subsequent seizure of power by
>Hitler.

>> McVay says it’s OK to suppress views McVay disagrees with, but it is not
>> OK to suppress -his- views.

>Liar.

Let the silly little handle eat the big one.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:22:06 PDT 1996
Article: 65140 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!EU.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:51:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 11:52:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:53:38 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> >Liar, on both counts. It has NEVER been the policy of ‘revisionists’ to
>> >support their claims with tangible evidence, nor has any evidence ever
>> >been produced to support the groundless claim made by troll
>> >jbelling/rblackmore.
>>
>> Nor is it policy to waste time with fools.

>Of course it is your policy to lie, utter threats, and harass people, all
>in an attempt to mask the fact that you have no rational basis for
>rejecting the fact of the Holocaust – other than your inbred anti-semetic
>beliefs, of course.

Silly handle.

The holocaust is for kids.

>[incoherent .sig deleted]

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:22:06 PDT 1996
Article: 65142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘There Was No Longer Any Escape’
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:57:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 7:58:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:47:32 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
>>[Quoted in “‘The Good Old Days'” – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
>>Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
>>————————————————————-
>>Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
>>smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to
>>get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
>>Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
>>the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
>>one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
>>into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
>>the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
>>confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
>>to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
>>extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
>>led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
>>any escape.

> We take note of the date of the book in which the “testimony” is
>cited, 1988. Keep in mind that most of the Holocaust books referred by
>the Holocaust dependent are from 1980 on.

> “Testimony”? Where? Doesn’t say.

> A “tube” from a “hut”? Will we ever have a detailed, even a
>slightly detailed description of this tube? No.

You have to give a lot of the credit to a real shit translation like
most all of them. For example, tube. These translations have all the
earmarks of a poor German-English dictionary.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:22:07 PDT 1996
Article: 65147 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:39:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:40:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 20:33:08 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> He has claimed that I mailbombed him.

> You did.

You lie about a matter of which you have no direct knowledge.

>> But he is a liar in making that claim.

> The mailbomb is public.

The lie is public. You have no direct knowledge of events. You are
lying.

>> And he is too cowardly to respond for himself.

> There is no reason for him to respond. The mailbomb is publically
>posted.

It is of course a lie that it was a mail bomb.

Ken McVay directly and specifically requested the information I sent
him months ago.

He lies in calling it a mail bomb.

But that is all that can be expected from holohuggers. Lies. You are
all liars. It is very clear now.

The most I admit to was being taken in by a “setup” instigated by
McVay. But that was before I was aware of his DOD connection and I
was less wary of his lying ways.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 65152 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A minor question
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:42:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 3:44:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 02:54:43 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 12:45:30 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
>wrote:

>#Mr. Giwer: In response to my request for sources re: your assertions
>#about Terezin, you replied, ‘Read the frigging NG for further
>#details.’ I suggest you heed your own advice; were you to do so,
>#you’d realize that this is indeed a lie.

>No. That is incorrect. Giwer wouldn’t know what the truth was if it jumped
>up and bit him in the ass.

Are you trying to explain the chuncks missing from yours?

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:59:09 PDT 1996
Article: 65173 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:01:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 3:02:55 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Sep 1996 02:24:17 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:
>> > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>> > And who has stopped you from doing so?

>> Not who-but what-in this case the apparent non-existence of the alleged
>documents.
>> Perhaps Miss Alpert was right-there were no autopsies-not for the reason she
>gave, however.

> The report of a forensic pathologist on the autopsies and visual
>surveys he performed (roughly in a 1:3 ratio) constitute a a valid post mortem
>medical report. Larson’s report is well-known. It was used both in evidence and
>was later presented to Congressional hearings where it became part of the
>record.

> Now who is topping you from reading them?

> –YFE

Not one forensic report posted.

That is what is expected.

You know there are none.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:59:10 PDT 1996
Article: 65176 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who sides with Hitler?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 3:41:35 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:05:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[Giwer’s Hitler quotation snipped]

>> Then when your stealing
> ^^^^ ^^^^^
>
>
>Illiterate idiot.

Using our own child to make a holohugger point?

That is not the act of a mother. That is the act of a mutha.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 15:59:10 PDT 1996
Article: 65182 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Not this Rubbish Again? (Re: DIESEL GAS CHAMBERS A
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:49:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:50:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Yes, Keren is an idiot. It did not require this post to demonstrate
it.

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:45:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Now, now, “Roberts”. We have been through this many, many
>times. Good thing about it is that we now have these FAQ’s…

>You must be aware of the series of experiments, reported in
>the Pattle et. al. paper, in which animals were killed
>with the exhaust of a tiny 6 BHP diesel engine. For some
>other comments –

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) posted:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## A high concentration of CO can
>## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
>## concentration of HCN will kill them.

># There is none from a diesel engine. Even you
># should know that.

>”The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”, by
>J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
>Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

>Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
>engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
>ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
>exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
>which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
>on page 99).

>## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
>## such as NO2. Also, it’s easy to tune the engine so
>## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
>## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

># Not a diesel.

>Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
>table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he’s totally wrong
>about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is
>practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios
>(say, 0.056) there’s only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the
>exhaust.

>Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
>amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
>sharply as the ratio is increased.

>Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
>that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
>goes to show that either they’re lying, or that
>they haven’t got the foggiest idea of what they’re
>talking about.

>The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
>clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
>tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.

>-Danny Keren.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 17:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 65206 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:48 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 01:31:42 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>tom moran wrote:
>>
>> In the Holocaust book “Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp” we
>> are given a photo with the caption: “Arrival and selection of
>> Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, 1944. Credit: Yad Vashim, Jeruselem”.
>> The word “selection” is Holocaust vernacular is always used to
>> designate those who are selected to go to the gas chamber.

>[snip]

>> We are to assume from the “selection” word that either all the
>> women are to go off to the gas chamber but not the men, or vice versa,
>> when in fact the camp was segregated into mens camp and womens camp.

>Why are we to ‘assume’ this, Mr. Moran? Testimony consistently states
>that those arriving at Auschwitz were first divided by sex and then
>selected for labour or the gas.

What is wrong with assuming the testimony for the purpose of comparing
it to what trivial amounts of physical evidence that exist?

>[snip]
>>
>> Also obvious is the womens camp in the righthand background, with
>> the fence that is clearly visible just 60 or 70 feet away. We can see
>> right through this fence to the womens barracks, which are just
>> another 60 or 70 feet away.

>[snip]

>Again, this is completely consistent with testimony. See, for
>example, Sara Nomberg-Przytyk, _Auschwitz: True Tales from a Grotesque
>Land_, ed. Eli Pfefferkorn and David H. Hirsch (Chapel Hill:
>University of North Carolina Press, 1985).

It is clearly contrary to the claims that gassing was done in secret
or have you missed that?

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 18:37:43 PDT 1996
Article: 65220 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Slave labor camps
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:57:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 6:58:24 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

It is always so emotionallly satisfying for people to point to the
evil Nazis and work camps. It is fun to call is slave labor.
Emotionally satisfying even.

AUSTIN — Governor George W. Bush and Lt. Governor Bob Bullock today
joined officials from the Texas prison and park programs to announce
the
creation of the
“Conservation Work Corps,” a unique partnership that will put
prisoners to
work cleaning up and
revitalizing Texas parks and public lands.

Prisoners, parolees and probationers will provide in FY 96 an
estimated $4
million worth of labor
for 25 parks and Wildlife Management Area (WMA) projects, ranging from
building nature trails to
expanding handicapped access to mowing, clearing brush and removing
trash.
Sixteen projects
involving more than 700 offenders from 13 prisons are already
underway;
agreements have been
reached for 10 additional projects.

Governor Bush and Lt. Governor Bullock joined officals from Texas
Parks
and Wildlife and the Texas Department of Criminal Justice to announce
the
project at the State
Cemetery in Austin, where inmates from the Hughes Unit are cleaning
headstones and restoring
the grounds.

“This is a unique way for those who have committed crimes to make some
restitution to the citizens of Texas,” said Governor Bush. “Prisons
should
be a place of
punishment, where inmates work to repay a debt. This program puts
them to
work on public
improvement projects which all Texans can enjoy when they visit our
parks
and public lands,”
said the Governor.

Lt. Governor Bullock said, “I am pleased that Parks and Wildlife has
entered into a contract with the Department of Criminal Justice to use
prison labor to clean up our
state parks and the State Cemetery.

“I cannot think of a better way for inmates to pay Texas back for what
they have taken — and cannot think of a better place to do it for
Texas and
her children,” Bullock
said.

Texas Criminal Justice Board Chairman Allan Polunsky of San Antonio
said,
“this work is a worthy
definition of offenders paying their debts to society.”

Andrew Sansom, executive director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
Department, said, “This partnership has the potential to provide
millions of
dollars in
improvements for parks and wildlife areas across Texas. It’s work that
simply could not be
accomplished otherwise, and visitors to the public lands of Texas
will be
able to enjoy the
benefits for years to come.”

The “Conservation Work Corps” is being created through an interagency
agreement between the
Texas Department of Criminal Justice and Texas Parks and Wildlife
Department. The two
agencies have worked together on projects in the past, but the
creation of
the work corps
formalizes and expands the program.

According to the “Conservation Work Corps” agreement, the Texas
Department
of Criminal
Justice is responsible for providing the work force, security and
supervisory staff. The Texas
Department of Parks and Wildlife is responsible for providing
transportation, supplies, tools,
appropriate task and safety instructions, and project site training
and
direction.

Contact: Karen Hughes or Ray Sullivan, 512/463-1826
Go to: Texas Home Page – Subject Index – Agency Index

Please send comments, suggestions, or questions to:
Wayne McDilda,[email protected], (512)475-4715
Last Revision 16 Aug 1995

Department of Information Resources
Copyright 1995, State of Texas; Department of Information Resources

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 22:44:55 PDT 1996
Article: 65255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s rave review for nixing Zundel’s air time.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:44:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 11:45:45 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:41:15, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <51aqqd$a[email protected]> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>>More censorship of revisionism by the “free and fair” media.

>No, it’s not censorship, Kurtsie. The station in question doesn’t have the
>obligation to carry Zundel’s ravings.

>Call it good taste.

Call it holohugger hate that would suppress free speech which is what
it really is.

As McVay and and YFE have demonstrated, holohuggers are liars and will
harrass ISPs simply to get a person silenced.

It is clear that you folks do not want real discussion. Bnd it is
clear that you will pretend you do while you do the contrary.

You are also liars including your fearless leader, the lying McVay.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 22:44:56 PDT 1996
Article: 65258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: real shit try
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:42:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:44:07 AM PDT 1996
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On 13 Sep 1996 01:34:58 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> Want to try it again?
>>
>> You folks are some of the most accomplished liars I have ever come
>>across. But not quite good enough.

> Mr. Giwer should look in a mirror.

What a clever reasponse. What a juvenile response.

What is the best a holohugger can do?

You have just seen it.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 22:44:56 PDT 1996
Article: 65261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: AN ADMISSION OF MY STUPIDITY
Date: 13 Sep 1996 20:03:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on2-43.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 4:03:19 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

In accordance with the agreement with Netcom to allow me to once again have
access, I hereby do declare that I am a racist, pig-like liar and troller.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 22:44:57 PDT 1996
Article: 65262 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!worldlinx.com!news.wwonline.com!news.wwonline-ny.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nice try, little shit holohuggers
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:38:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 1:39:52 PM CDT 1996
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You have failed again with your lies.

Are you going to keep up your lying?

Of course you are.

Harrass everyone in sight, family in particular, if that fails, the
ISP.

You are all scum of the earth liars.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 22:44:58 PDT 1996
Article: 65269 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.atl.bellsouth.net!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.drake.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Watch Soccer and See the GASSINGS at Auschwitz
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:01:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 9:02:19 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:59:49 +0100, Jeffrey
wrote:

>Christie then questioned [Professor Robert] Faurisson about two plans
>which show the entire Birkenau camp. One came from a book published in
>Warsaw in 1980, and agreed, said the witness, with all the other plans
>known to him. The second came from The Auschwitz Album, a popular book
>first published in 1981 or 1982 that contains nearly 200 photos of the
>camp. The latter plan, said Faurisson, contains a “trick.”
>He then explained himself. Exterminationists say that the women and
>children selected for gassing at Auschwitz were led to the buildings
>called Crematoria II and III. Faurisson believes they were led to the
>camp’s large bath/sauna complex by way of a road which passed between
>Crematoria II and III. aThe trick,” explained Faurisson, is that in the
>map in The Auschwitz Album, that they cut the road going to the big
>sauna,” making it look like it dead-ends at the crematoria.
> “There are other tricks” in the same book, said Faurisson. For example,
>the well-known soccer field for internees beside Crematoria II and III
>is not designated as such because readers would find it hard to believe
>that gassings and athletics were conducted side-by-side.
>
>[Pages 303 From the “The Holocaust on Trial , The case of Ernst Zundel
>by Robert Lenski.]

>The ‘Holocaust on Trial’ is available from:-
>The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659
>USA.

Actually the idea the A-B had saunas for inmates is more than enough
deal with the matter.
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 01:29:01 PDT 1996
Article: 65326 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Victims and Murderers: Photographs from Belsen Camp
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:20:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3238[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:21:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Sep 1996 17:00:53 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>: [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>: >Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>: >Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>: >Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>: >Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>: >Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>:
>: What the Allies found after entering the camp that had been
>: deprived of the necessary supplies for months on end. No evidence for
>: any intentional Holocaust.

>Kind of makes you think, doesn’t–what would these people accept as
>evidence? Mass graves, cyanide traces on walls,

Lets see, Belsen had no gas chambers yet you say there were cyanide
traces on the walls. Thank you for agreeing that cyanide traces have
nothing to do with gas chambers.

>and photographs
>are all physical evidence–but they don’t establish intent (of course,
>physical evidence never establishes intent.)

Nor to they establish actions that happened as you have demonstrated
with your comment upon cyanide traces.

Confessions, letters,
>journals, personal testimony and official government documents establish
>intent, but they aren’t physical evidence, so they don’t count.

Actions, not intentions. But in any event, you know there are exactly
three documents that ambiguously suggest gassing if tortured when
there should be tens of thousands of such documents.

On the
>one hand, only physical evidence is any good; on the other, we can only
>accept evidence which establishes intent. Just depends on what day of
>the week it is. One wonders if a signed, notarized letter from Hitler
>reading “Dear Heinrich, Please gather up Joe, Hermann and the boys and
>kill all the Jews. Schnitzel party at Eva’s place afterward. Love
>Adolph” would do the trick. Probably not.

Find anything even similar that talks about gassing and you have
something that no one has found in over 50 years of looking.

>Let’s hear it, Tommy–what would it take to convince you that the
>Holocaust actually took place, just as every historian in the world
>believes it did? Spell it out for us.

Rather the best that exists has been presented and has been found
wanting.

Unless something new is presented, there was no gassing just as there
was no electrocution, suffocation or steaming.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 01:29:02 PDT 1996
Article: 65331 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s rave review for nixing Zundel air time.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:29:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:30:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:02:54 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> Ken McVay, the Director of the anti-hate, Holocaust, Holocaust,
>Holocaust website, Nizkor, gives rave reviews to a recent shut down of
>a radio program in the East Coast called “Dissident Voices” that aired
>the opinions of Ernst Zundel.

> McVay’s lead to respond to, under, “Congratulations, KXEL and
>Mr.Morehead”
>
>>Ingrid Rimland:

>>Why not call in to KXEL, ask for Mr. Morehead, swallow every harsh word
>>that’s crowding on your tongue and let your feelings known politely? I
>>know. It isn’t always easy. But it’s strategically smart to let our
>>opposition know that we are men and women of breeding, substance, strength
>>and principles and spine – and that as customers of products advertised on
>>radio programs we don’t like it one bit when we are told what we can listen
>>to or not.

>>The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.

>McVay:

>”Thank you, Dr. Rimland, for providing this information. I will
>call Mr. Morehead first thing tomorrow morning, and, on behalf
>of the Nizkor Project, compliment him on the quality of his
>programming changes.

>The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.

>Unless I’m mistaken, several hundred other folks will do
>precisely the same thing, given your consideration in
>providing us with the numbers…. hmmm… 200 folks on your
>super-secret-only-published-to-the-internet-ten-times mailing
>list, and 70 million of us… I’m sure Mr. Morehead’s in for a
>satisfying and happy week!”

>
> Seems McVay thinks he has 70,000,000 people ready to go on line
>in defense of his call to action for the nixing of a program called,
>”Dissident Voices”.

>McVay continues:

>”The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.

>Once again, thank you, Ms. Rimland, for bringing this
>progressive policy to our attention, and for letting us know
>that Mr. Morehead had the good sense to terminate Mr. Zundel’s
>air pollution without further ado.”

> Seems McVay likes the idea of his opposition being stamped out by
>means other than his capability to deal with their output by the
>recognized academic, professional, empirical method.
> What can you say about someone that would prefer his opposition
>not be given the chance to air their views? Doesn’t he have the
>confidence in his widely touted website? Doesn’t he have the belief
>his stuff is so awesome it can over come anything? Could this be a
>sign that McVay subliminally, at least, knows he is corrupt? Is it an
>admission he can’t hang on his output alone, that he needs the acts of
>censorship to prevail? Could it mean that McVay really knows,
>subliminally at least, that the Holcoaust story is a lie?

>”The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.”

>McVay continues with the rave review:

>”That’s what I call quality programming!”

> What McVay really means, going by his immediately stated position
>is, ‘unprogramming’, since we could assume he doesn’t have any idea
>about what they do air otherwise.

>”The phone number is 319-233-3371 and fax is 319-233-7430.”

> May I thank Ken McVay for his informing us he is sending his
>compliments. I am faxing off three examples of his output here on
>alt.revisionism, including the one commented on here
>(“Congratulations, KXEL and Mr.Morehead”) so Mr.Morehead will know
>what kind of mentality endorses the move. I will also post one
>directed to the general staff.

> Poor McVay, he’s so intellectually weak he can’t cope. He rather
>see his opposition not have access to airing their views. He would
>rather have it that only his stuff gets out without having it opposed.
> Would he deny that his arch enemies of the past, Hitler and
>Goebbels, might prefer the same?

Just what do you expect for a DOD contractor? The only question is
why?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:44 PDT 1996
Article: 65379 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BATF Hit Squad — Tee Hee
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:34:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50q[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32[email protected]> <517q1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:313072 alt.revisionism:65379

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:40:11 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Here, normal people, is another symptom of mental derangement:
>>
>> [email protected] (Sam A. Kersh) wrote:
>> >[email protected] (Norman Nithman) wrote:
>> >
>> >>So you are claiming that the BATF wanted to assassinate Koresh?
>> >>–
>> >
>> >Yes. That was Special Agent Steve Willis’ assignment. He missed and
>> >hit Perry Jones instead.
>> >
>> >
>> >Sam A. Kersh
>> >[email protected]
>> >NRA Life Member
>> >TSRA
>>
>> Lemme ask ya — if there was a hitsquad, howcum they’re ignoring these
>> GunGoofies? Letting ’em publicize all these “exposes” or even letting ’em
>> live?
>>
>> I got it! The professionally trained, conspiratorial secret ATF hit
>> squad is *scared* to tackle the GunGoofies. Yeah, that must be it.
>>
>> Dopctors say a good laugh is good for our health. At that rate, the
>> GunGoofies will keep me alive forever. They’ll be *so* happy to know
>> that.
>>
>> Jim

>I agree if BATF had intended to assasinate (read: murder) Koresh. It
>would have been a simple matter for a sniper to set up in a hide at 400
>to 600 meters and remove him with one shot. A lot simpler than a dynamic
>entry, it even could have been set up that that would be the signal for
>the entry so as to disguise the sniper’s work.

The primary purpose was to look good in front of Congress that was
considering their funding.

The choice of target was influenced by the likes of that lying scum,
Morris Dees. (When will he spend some time identifying members of
known terrorist groups such as the JDL? Never. He is on the side of
those terrorists.)

Dees and his SPLC are interested in getting rid of Christian
organizations. To that end he lies about them. For example he
denounced the Branch Davidians as a racist organization which of
course it was not. He invented things to tell the BATF in the
planning specifically that they were dangerous, a lie repeated by the
BATF but denied by everyone who knew them including the sherriff’s
office.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:45 PDT 1996
Article: 65381 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:15:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 7:17:05 AM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:43:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> It is good that you again admit there is no physical evidence for the
>> holocaust and that “hearing maniacal laughter” over the sound of the

>Thank you for confessing that you know that there is an enormous amount
>of physical evidence by refusing to accept it.

Only a Canadian Jew associate of a murdering Jew organization can
think that maniacal laughter of pilots heard over engines is physical
evidence. As that is the way the Mossad apparently works, that gives
them no excuse whatsoever for any of their murders.

>Or are you now requesting that I send it?

>Don’t worry.

>If you ask for it, you’ll get it.

I can do like OBC did. Request information, wait a couple months, and
then report the answer as a mail bomb.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:46 PDT 1996
Article: 65382 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUSTALESE [Tr. CODE FOR ALLIED PROPAGANDA]
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:41:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 6:43:05 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 96 09:47:03 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In Article
>Jeffrey writes:
> [snip]
>>Look through any ‘holocaust’ book and you will find numerous examples of
>>the Germans using ‘camouflage’ terms or codewords, getting the Jews to
>>send off fake postcards, showerheads to disguise a gas chamber, gas
>>chambers described on plans of Crematoria as Lichenkeller [morgue] and
>>so on…..
>>
>>Try going through Reitlingers book and counting the examples of
>>deliberate German deception.
>>
>>You will be amazed.

>This is classic revisionist “logic.” Anytime a Nazi uses
>euphemisms, they are to be taken at their literal word; and
>anytime they openly admit their crimes (published confessions,
>IMT testimony, other trial testimonies), they are _not_ to be
>taken at their literal word. Thus, when they are lying, they are
>really telling the truth, and when they are telling the truth,
>they are really lying.

>John Drobnicki
>Reference Librarian
>York College/CUNY
>”I speak for no one but myself.”

That is quite untrue. When we look into the confessions we look into
the circumstances of the confessions. As you know, they were charged
with things that were not crimes at the time they were committed, such
as prohibiting Jews from joining the NSDAP, something for which Jews
will never forgive them.

In your position you can certainly look up the IMT proceedings and
read what in fact happened. I have posted many examples of events
that would in a normal case result in the convictions being reversed.
Why don’t you spend some time and do that?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:46 PDT 1996
Article: 65385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:38:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 7:39:34 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 02:20:55 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
>> Terror? Is it terror to motivate illegal aliens to leave? Does the USA
>> exercise “terror” by forcing thousands of illegal aliens every month to
>> leave the country?

> The difference — which you refuse to recognize — is that the people who
>you are talking about are not “illegal immigrants.” They are Danish citizens either
>by birth or because they obtained that citizenship by legal means. To arbitrarily
>revoke such citizenship on the basis of ethnic origins is a violation of their human
>and legal rights. There is, to my knowledge, only one country that ever so
>maltreated their citizens. That country was nazi Germany.

Even a lawyer knows the lhe law can be changed.

Now where is this “human” right listed? And what is the penalty for
violating it?

> You are, and remain, a nazi.

Nazi Germany did no such thing. But then, you are still worried about
those Nazis hiding under your bed while support the JDL terrorists and
ADL criminals.

Lets see, the JDL roving gangs of thugs attacking, beating and
firebombing anyone they disagree with. Do they really wear brown
shirts?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:47 PDT 1996
Article: 65390 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary “Gerhard” Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:57:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50agrb$17s@sjx <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 7:58:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:100882 alt.revisionism:65390 soc.culture.europe:47866 soc.culture.german:86059

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:06:25 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:

>[snip]

>> I do not think that I can be called a racist. A racist is defined as
>> somebody who regards his own race as superior and thinks that one race
>> has the right to rule other races. I certainly do not want to rule other
>> races. And I speak very little about racial superiority.

>racism n. 1 a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that
>claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., and
>that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races

Political correctness, slandering all scientific research that shows
differences as racist, e.g., the studies in The Bell Curve.

>2 any
>program or practice of racial discrimination, segragation, etc, based on
>such beliefs -racist n., adj.

even if established by science.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:48 PDT 1996
Article: 65391 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:02:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 8:03:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 21:44:57 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>My apologies to Rajiv Gandi. I was perusing the posts by AUTHORS, and I
>thought his comments of being anti-Semitic were directed at me. However, they
>were directed at Mr. Giwer.

You had it right the first time. There is no way to cover it up now.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:49 PDT 1996
Article: 65393 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:10:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 8:11:46 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 04:27:54 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> By the way, we are still waiting for the original autopsy reports conducted by
>> the doctor you refer to in your post. We won’t hold our breath….

> The conclusions of the report have been posted. You are just too lazy to
>look up the report for yourself.

Interesting that I did look it up and it makes no mention of autopsies
showing cyanide poisoning. What in the world are you talking about?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 10:54:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65434 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Liability being studied in Canada
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:28:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 9:29:52 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Canadian Govt To Study Internet Content Liability

Source: Newsbytes

OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA, 1996 SEP 12 (NB) via Individual Inc. — By
Grant
Buckler. In what could be a prelude to new legislation affecting
Internet
content and access providers, the Canadian government department
Industry
Canada has commissioned a study of Internet content liability issues.

The study, being carried out by an independent team of four people for
Industry
Canada, is looking at who is liable today for online libel, copyright
violations, obscenity, and defamation. Its activities have included a
series of
focus groups in major Canadian cities, attended by some Industry
Canada
observers as well as representatives of the Internet industry and
telephone and
cable companies.

According to Mark Hayes of Toronto-based Fasken Campbell Godfrey, one
of those
conducting the study, the research team has no mandate to recommend
legislative
changes — only to put together a picture of how things stand today.
He added,
though, that the team will have to report that in many areas the law
is unclear.
“It’s hard to resist the temptation not to say and it should be
clarified,'” he
said, but the research team will try to stick to the terms of its
assignment.

Exactly what Industry Canada will do with the research team’s findings
is not
clear. Hayes said one reason for the study may have been an upcoming
copyright
infringement case involving the transmission of copyright music over
the net.

However, some in the Internet business believe regulatory changes are
on the
way. In electronic-mail sent to a variety of Internet service
providers (ISPs)
and others, Montreal lawyer David Masse urged ISPs to participate in
the focus
groups. “If the Canadian Internet community is satisfied to allow the
inevitable
regulatory framework to be influenced by less than a handful of
industry
players,” he wrote, “they will get the regulation they deserve.”

An Industry Canada official said to be in charge of the project could
not be
reached for comment this week. The research team is due to report its
findings
in early November.

(19960912/Press Contact: Mark Hayes, Fasken Campbell Godfrey,
416-865-4385,
Internet e-mail [email protected])

[09-12-96 at 15:00 EDT, Copyright 1996, Newsbytes News Network.]
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 10:54:17 PDT 1996
Article: 65436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:22:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 11:23:28 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:01:48 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article , Jeffrey
> wrote:

>> Some reporter had called her [Ilse Koch] the “Bitch of Buchenwald” had
>> [also] written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her
>> house. And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven
>> that the lampshades were made out of goatskin….

>[snip]

>In light of Jeffrey’s claims one might wish to consider the following, a
>US Army pathologist’s report:

>——————————————————————————–

> Seventh Medical Laboratory
> APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
> Section of Pathology

> 25 May 1945

> SUBJECT: Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides

> TO : COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army
> (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL)

> 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for
> examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN
> from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of
> Case 81 T.J.A.

> 2. The description follows:

> ……

> PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The
> upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm.
> The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper
> area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the
> umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm. ….

With the largest part of 44 cm there is no way any human body could
show two nipples. What an asshole.

> MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen
> showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants.
> Granular black pigment granules are seen between some
> of the bundles.

> 3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens
> are tattooed human skin.

> For the Commanding Officer,
>
> (signature)
> REUBEN CARES
> Major M.C.
> Chief of Pathology

>——————————————————————————–

>(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
>deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)

But of course they were later identified as lambskin.
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 10:54:17 PDT 1996
Article: 65437 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Does anyone have it?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:03:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 10:04:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have managed to lose my copy of the Nuremberg testimony in which it
was sworn under oath (proving the evil of Nazi medical experiments)
that prisoners were given cancer in some experments.

It is a real laugh riot and I would like to post it again and again
and again but I have lost it. It will be appreciated if someone who
kept it would repost it.
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 11:07:21 PDT 1996
Article: 65442 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!cygnus.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: holohugging traitors
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:56:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 11:57:19 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

We have no had more than a few American citizens support the murder of
their fellow Americans on the USS Liberty.

As such they are not really citizens but rather people who deserve
death at best as they are unamerican and support the murderous regime
is Israel.

Anyone supporting Israel over US citizens and US military deserves to
be deported to Antarctica at best and executed at worst.

This include Joel Rosenblum as a traitor to the US.
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 11:51:50 PDT 1996
Article: 65444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: But it has never been a secret
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:26:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 126
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 10:27:55 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Never a secret, so why the recent furor? What are the politicians
getting from it?

=====

Swiss Promise Full Explanation of Role in Nazi Gold Affair

Source: Associated Press

BERN, SWITZERLAND – AP World News via Individual Inc. : Switzerland
promised
Thursday it would clarify once and for all its role as a safe haven
for Nazi
gold during the second World War.

– The pledge from the government and National Bank came after
British
newspapers reported that the Swiss may have held on to billions of
dollars worth
of gold plundered from Nazi occupied countries and from the six
million Jews
killed in death camps.

– The reports have unleashed a new wave of international criticism
of neutral
Switzerland’s war dealings.

– The lower house of parliament will likely pass a bill this autumn
setting up
an Independent Commission of Experts to examine fully the activities
of private
individuals as well as the Swiss government and National Bank in the
affair,
officials said.

– The Ministry for Foreign Affairs spokesman said: “We have a great
interest
in seeing that everything is laid out on the table.”

– The investigation would be a pioneering move even in international
circles,
he added.

– A report by the British Foreign Office published earlier this week
said the
Nazis looted more than dlrs 550 million in gold – now worth over dlrs
6 billion
– from occupied countries during World War II and stashed most of it
in Swiss
banks.

– The United States, Britain and France, who knew about the plunder,
managed
to recover only about 10 percent of the gold, much of which had been
stolen from
the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis, the report said.

– That money was then distributed over the past 50 years to nine or
10
Nazi-occupied countries by the Allies’ Tripartite Gold Commission.

– Jewish groups maintain Swiss banks still hold the rest of the
money, now
worth, they say, up to dlrs 7 billion.

– Officials at the Swiss National Bank said the so-called
revelations in the
British press were not new.

– The archive documents concerned had been in free circulation for
11 years
and the gold transactions with the Nazis had long been the subject of
academic
reports.

– The details of the Washington Treaty had never been secret and
were also
well known at least in the German-speaking world.

– In Singapore Mathis Cabiallavetta, president of Switzerland’s
largest bank
Union Bank of Switzerland told reporters at a press conference: “We
have every
interest in sorting this matter out once and for all.”

– Attempts were already underway to investigate the matter,
Cabiallavetta
said. The Swiss Bankers’ Association had set up a claims center to
handle
requests from relatives trying to find out what had happened to family
assets.

– After long controversy with Jewish organizations it had also
agreed to set
up an independent commission under the leadership of the former U.S.
Federal
Reserve Board chairman Paul Volcker to look into the role of Swiss
banks in Nazi
times, he said.

– (PROFILE (WS SL:BC-Switzerland-Nazi Gold; CT:i; (REG:EURO;)
(REG:BRIT;)
(REG:SCAN;) (REG:ENGL;) (LANG:ENGLISH;)) )

[09-12-96 at 14:21 EDT, Copyright 1996, The Associated Press]
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 12:32:23 PDT 1996
Article: 65458 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:21:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 11:22:27 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:06:39 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> But at the time they agreed they did not know that Ken McVay requested
>> the information I sent him. Now that they know that my only agreement
>> is that I will not give answers that are “too long” despite what is
>> requested.

>You *DID* ask for it, after all!

McVay requested what I sent him. I hope that is clear. It was a
setup. A clever setup but a setup nevertheless.

>Oh my, yes!

I asked for nothing but you want to add your lies to those already
told to NETCOM there is nothing I can do to stop you.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 12:32:24 PDT 1996
Article: 65466 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:14:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 159
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 11:15:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:48:11 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> > [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> >
>> > Given that Hilberg most certainly qualifies as a “serious historian” and
>> > that it is self-evident from his (above) anlysis regarding Go”ring’s order
>> > of July 31 that “an extermination program was devised against the Jews at
>> > this date,” your claim otherwise are shown to be worthless, Herr
>> > Schwarzesel.
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >>>>
>> Hilberg didn’t do so well when he testified at the Zundel trial. That’s why
>> he refused to reappear to testify at a later trial. Seems he was having a few
>> problems supporting some of his interpretations…..

>Herr Schwarzesel, care to support this claim by posting the relevent parts
>of the transpscripts from the first Zundel trial? As we all know, Hilberg
>was cross-examined by the neo-Nazi’s legal attack-dog, Christie, who was

Is it in Canada that defendants are not permitted the right to
counsel? Is counsel to be attacked because of their client? Are they
not to do their best for their clients regardless of the witness and
subject matter?

Sounds like a very totalitarian form of justice that Canada runs.

>described by the _Ontario Lawyers Weekly_, as exibiting “sheer nastiness.”
>For instance, Christie treated Holocaust survivors “in a brutal fashion,
>calling one a liar and insiosting that another give him the full names of
>at least twenty family members who had been killed in the camps.” (cf.
>_Denying the Holocuast_, p.160.)

It certainly is nasty of an attorney to crossexamine a witness. But
why did they not report that the witness could not give those names?
Of course not. It sounds very much like the IMT where
crossexamination that challenge testimony was disallowed.

BTW: It is also very strange that the plaintif’s attorney did not
object to the witness being called a liar in open court. Are you
certain you have a correct description of what happened?

>But in regards to Christies cross-examination of Dr. Hilberg, who is a
>Professor Emeritus in the Department of History at the University of
>Vermont:

A title he holds solely because a Chair in History was financed for
him, that is, on the stipulation that he fill the position. Other
than that, his degree and professional work was always in political
science and public affairs. In other words, he was bought the status
of historian without the qualifications for the position due to his
popular writings on the holocaust.

>To get an idea of Christie’s badgering tactics and empty
>posturing, one need only consider that “he asked Dr. Hilberg if he
>recognized a certain historical tract and then declared, ‘I though you
>might- you’re a historian of sorts.” (cf. Ibid.)

As above, of sorts is quite correct. His current title was purchased,
not earned.

>And, of course, at Zundel’s second trial, who did Christie call to testify
>on Zundel’s behalf? Why none othr than the Hitlerphile and self-described
>”moderate fascist” David Irving! An ersatz “historian of sorts” to say the
>least! (cf. Ibid.) Such hypocrisy and dishonesty is to be expected, I
>suppose, when defending scum like Zundel….

Do you hold that in Canada a person should not have the right to call
witnesses of his own chosing in his own defense? What a strange
place, Canada. Or are you objecting to the fact that he was an
effective witness while so many of the prosecution witnesses were
ineffective?

>So, Herr Schwarzesel, pardon my skepticism at your claim that Dr. Hilberg
>had a “a few problems supporting some of his interpretations.” I suggest,
>Herr Schwarzesel, that you put your money where your mouth is and provide
>the trial transcripts. That is, of course, if it such is not too much to
>ask of a craven scumabg Nazi apologist, such as yourself?

It hardly appears necessary to go that far when we clearly have more
than enough information about what happened.

As for your buddy …

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: On “respected” holocaust historians
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:15:27 GMT

1/17/85
Maria Bohuslawsky of the Toronto Sun reports on a
cross-examination
that took place the
day before, in which self-proclaimed Holocaust “expert” and
author
Raul Hilberg admitted
under oath that after 36 years of studying the Holocaust, 1) he
knew of no documentary
(printed) evidence that the Nazis murdered or planned to murder
Jews in gas chambers, 2)
he had identified large parts of the key “confession” of Kurt
Gerstein as to the “gassings”
as “pure nonsense” and “totally false,” 3) when presenting the
Gerstein “confession” as
proof of Nazi misdeeds he had edited out inconvenient sections in
order to make his point,
4) he knew of no autopsies that showed death by gassing, 5) he
billed himself as a
Holocaust expert for 18 years before even visiting Auschwitz (he
then spent only one day
there), 6) he was not familiar with many books on the subject of
which he was alleged to be
the expert, and 7) he knew of no scientific proof that even one
Jew
had been gassed. (see
also the article on the same date by Kirk Makin in the Globe and
Mail, and the Sault Star of
1/18/85.) Understandably, when called upon to testify again in a
later trial, Hilberg begged
off.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 12:32:25 PDT 1996
Article: 65471 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Ye shall smell gas where there be no gas
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:06:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50908b$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50g1dr$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 10:07:47 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:65471 alt.politics.white-power:43226

On 11 Sep 1996 12:48:42 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>I’m not but you are. I haven’t heard that one since early
>>gradeschool.

>You mean you have been hearing that one since early gradeschool,
>don’t you?

It means you are a childish fool unable to deal with adults in open
discussion. It means you are like all other holohuggers.

The only thing you can deal with are lies and the only thing you cna
promote are lies like Ken McVay and his ass kissers just tried to
organize and failed in doing.

I know you liars are going to try again so why not get about it?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 14:15:02 PDT 1996
Article: 65473 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ye shall smell gas where there be no gas
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:39:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 11:41:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 04:48:02 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> I know you liars are going to try again so why not get about it?

> Done that already. Already got a worried call from their law firm.

Is anything like those visits from the FBI you folks were claiming
last time around?
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 14:15:03 PDT 1996
Article: 65477 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:37:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 124
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 11:39:23 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 21:52 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes…
>>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
>>
>>[To stinking liar Matt Giwer]
>>
>># You were simply asked for the name of this physician.
>>
>>The stinking liar can’t post it, as no physician
>>ever gave this testimony.
>>
>>He chokes on his lies. Had he been smarter, he’d
>>invent lies that were harder to expose; but he’s
>>too stupid to do that.

> Danny,

> You are getting frustrated with Giwer but once your realize he posted:

> “You keep reading [my posts] and keep posting about them.
> That will waste your time while I concentrate on posting the
> idiocies of the holohuggers. I will post just enough to you
> folks to keep you interested and keep your limited time
> wasted. I have 18 hours a day seven days a week if I wish.”

> in Message-ID <[email protected]> then you realize
> that he is just trying to string people along.

> Of course he is lying. Of course he has no data to back up his lies.
> But he simply wants to keep you too busy and too frustrated to do good
> work in other places. Don’t play his game. Post short replies
> pointing out his lies and his omissions if you must. But if he is
> getting to you then he is winning. Don’t let him do that.

> Just remember:

> Mr. Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
> causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
> has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
> document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
> refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
> engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
> complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
> counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.

> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt and the
> various subdirectories beneath this.

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> For More Information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
> Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
> North America: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> (Under construction – permanently!)

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 14:15:04 PDT 1996
Article: 65478 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GIWER: A true “revisionist”
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:37:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 12:38:31 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 23:38:10 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Kurt Stele wrote:
>>
>> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>
>> > Been there, done that. Try Birkenau – Bischoff wrote to Kammler
>> about
>> >it in ’43. What part of “Vergasungskeller” don’t you understand?
>>
>> Oh yeah. Those “gas chambers” they built -after- the war, after the
>> existing structures were ruined, and the Soviets refused to allow
>> journalists to see them. Nice bit of craftwork.

>Funny thing is, we have several nazis and eyewitnesses talking
>at length about the use of these buildings as gas chambers,
>but not a single soviet coming forward and saying, “ahh yes,
>we built those after the war…”

>Interesting theory, a pity there’s no evidence for it.

Actually, not one “description” matches the buildings that are claimed
to have been the ones that were gas chambers. We have been over this.

For example, the gate to K II is in front of the main building
containing the ovens. The building containing the supposed gas
chamber is behind the main building. Not once is this fact even
suggested in all of the stories. Not once is a separate room within
this building suggested in the stories. Even that the building is
connected to or in close proximity to the Krema is not reported.

Therefore we have no stories about the buildings that have currently
been identified. Not one use of the word Leichenkellar. Not one use
of the word Krema in connection with the gassing. Yet those were the
official names.

So in fact there is nothing in the “witness” testimony that aids in
the identification of which building, if any, in which any gassing
occurred. Thus it is misleading to claim there are such descriptions.

On the other hand, it is the POLISH curator who has said they were
modified to look like what he thought they might have looked like.
This was said in an interview and is now made clear to visitors that
they are no more than the curator’s conception of what they might have
looked like.

It is unclear where you got your ideas.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 14:15:05 PDT 1996
Article: 65486 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:01:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <13SEP199608361[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 1:02:47 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43231 alt.revisionism:65486

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:32:14 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> We agree that Nizkor is run by a DOD contractor. Beyond that, we also
>> know he is a professed liar.

>No such agreement with your absurd contention exists, nor is there any
>evidence to suggest that Mr. McVay is a liar. There is, however, ample
>evidence to firmly establish that you are not only a troll, but an
>anti-semite who regularly engages in abuse of your internet connection,
>harassment, intimidation, and extortion.

>[Minor Giwer rant removed.]

>> Why would you folks deny that McVay requested what I sent him?

>Please provide documentation of this assertion.
>
>[snip]

Silly little handle.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 14:15:05 PDT 1996
Article: 65489 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where’s Giwer?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:38:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51akdh$[email protected]> <51c[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:39:34 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 22:15:56 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Right here, idiot holohugger.

> I see Giwer’s done his grovelling and begging to Netcom – or maybe he
>so entertained them with threats of lawsuits that he was given his account
>back.

> Ah well, just as well nobody’s packed up, now Giwer’s back.

I just told them the truth about what it going on here and why they
suddenly received so many coordinated complaints. I have also been
forwarding them examples of it in action right from this conference.

Thank you very much.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:09 PDT 1996
Article: 65492 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day…
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:34:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:35:39 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:14:46 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>> When one has dozens of delousing chambers for clothing one certainly
>> needs dozens of detectors of the gas.

>One who makes statements like “fans cannot move air” should refrain from
>talking about technical matters.

When you have enough education to understand the comment, get back to
me.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:10 PDT 1996
Article: 65495 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:14:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:15:37 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 23:16 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) writes…
>>Would anybody, perchance, have an address or even just a city name for Mr.
>>Giwer?

> Tampa, Florida (or in that area, at least). He has posted his address
> previously. It may be on his web page. The Cincinnati address, posted
> recently (and below), is his parents’ address. No one should go
> harrass his parents simply because Giwer is an asshole. Their address
> should not be posted on the net as they are not party to any discussion
> here.

Then why did Ken McVay call them?

>>The following, which purports to be a message from him, appears to contain a
>>threat to violence, which is generally acknowledged to be not merely naughty,
>>but often illegal.

> Rich Graves or Mike Stein can probably tell you if the headers and path
> match other Giwer posts in order to authenticate it.

> If you are going to consider this a serious threat you might want to
> engage in e-mail correspondence with Yale and/or Ken who are both up to
> date on the FBI investigation into Giwer’s web activities. The agents
> investigating Giwer would probably be interested in the threat. You
> may also choose to pass the information on to NETCOM pointing out the
> date and time of the post. They may be amused that it comes so shortly
> after they reinstated Giwer’s account.

>>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt
>>Giwer) writes:>Path:
>>>winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!n
>>>ews.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
>>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>>Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
>>>Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:04:55 GMT
>>>Organization: images incarnate
>>>Lines: 49
>>>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>>References: <50[email protected]> <[email protected]>
>>> <[email protected]>
>>>
>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
>>>X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 12:06:09 PM PDT 1996
>>>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:54:15, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Start at xxxx Harrison Avenue in Cincinnati, Ohio. It’s not a good
>>>>neighborhood — smells kind of funny — but it’s a good starting place.
>>>>Follow Harrison East for just over two and a half miles — walking distance;
>>>>it’d be shorter as the crow files — until you come to the second set of
>>>>railroad tracks.
>>
>>>>Walk due south until your hat floats.
>>
>>>>You’ll feel better. Trust me.
>>
>>> Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill you for
>>>even coming close.
>>
>>> You fucking jew traitor.
>>
>>> You murdering Jews are all alike and you are not expected to be any
>>>different.
>>
>>> Should lightening strike my family JEWS will be named because of you.
>>>And of course I will have you on my better dead list. And I am good
>>>at it.
>>
>>> You are advised to spend your time playing bodyguard to my family.
>>
>>> That is the only way you have to save yourself.
>>
>>> Keep that firmly in mind.
>>>=====
>>
>>>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>>>Like no business I know.
>>>Everything about it is appealing,
>>>Everything that traffic will allow.
>>>No where can you get that happy feeling
>>>Than when you’re stealing
>>
>>>There’s no business like Shoah business
>>>It’s like no business I know
>>>Everything about it is misleading
>>>Everything about it seems a fraud
>>>Can’t you hear the rabbis when they’re pleading
>>>For more donations to their cause
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>—————————————————————
>>http://www.winternet.com/~joelr
>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0380973227/joelrosenbergA/
>>….and for the last bit of geekitry: to receive the latest version of my FAQ,
>>send me a message with the phrase “your FAQ” anywhere in the subject line.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:11 PDT 1996
Article: 65497 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: a chamber of cards
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:58:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 12:59:32 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Now that Keren and company have clearly admitted that the LKs had
multiple rooms and that only one of those rooms was used as a gas
chamber it is time to move on. It certainly takes a long time to get
things through the thick skulls of some people.

Let us take those “induction” columns. They were supposed to have
been evenly spaced some 30 feet apart down the center line of the
building. They were supposed to have been where the ZB was put in.

But now that we know the “gas chamber” was only one room inside the
building the fiction of those “induction columns” is readily revealed.
They are not all over the “gas chamber” and no two of them could have
functioned as the two necessary columns for the one room that are
required by most of the stories.

To go further the much vaunted ventilation system (of which neither
specifications nor fans have been discovered) does not deal with that
one room at all but rather the entire complex of rooms. It is not
particular directed at the one “gas chamber.”

So after all of that build up and talking the entire story collapses
on the knowledge that it was supposed to be one room in the building,
something not mentioned by any of the “eyewitnesses” either, simply
invented later by those trying to find physical evidence to support
the fanciful tales of the witnesses.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:12 PDT 1996
Article: 65499 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:10:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 1:12:19 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43236 alt.revisionism:65499

On 13 Sep 1996 22:38 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 13 Sep 1996 08:36 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>>Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>> As Tommy has asserted this point for several months now, there is a
>>> Nizkor FAQ discussion which clearly demonstrates the fallaciousness of
>>> the troll’s assertions.
>>
>> We agree that Nizkor is run by a DOD contractor. Beyond that, we also
>>know he is a professed liar.
>>
>> McVay has lied to NETCOM at least through his ego-bereft minions who
>>can only support MCVAY! MCVAY! MCVAY! Sieg Heil!
>>
>> Why would you folks deny that McVay requested what I sent him?
>>
>> Why would he deny that he did in fact request what he was sent?
>>
>> I admit it was a clever set up.
>>
>> And I further agree I fell for it.
>>
>> But now you see, after two months the holohuggers are attempting to
>>cover up for Alec Grynspan major mail bombing of me. It is a trivial
>>matter and the evidence the holohuggers work together to create false
>>and lying allegations has been provided to netcom.
>>
>> And everytime you folks post your nonsense you dig a deeper hole.

> All I can tell from this post is that NETCOM got you in a real snit,
> you went out and got drunk, and you are now posting paranoid incoherent
> drivel again.

> Lucky for you that NETCOM doesn’t have a rule against this :>

It is good to see you are not denying either the tactic or that you
folks planned your calls and timed your lies for maximum effect.

Of course it is interesting that you will call it paranoid but then
you folks have been kind enough to provide so many public examples of
it that it is clear what has happened.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:13 PDT 1996
Article: 65502 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:43:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:44:34 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:25:33 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <51da[email protected]>, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>[snip]

>> How can I lie about something that is displayed in public.

>Ah, Mr. Edeiken, you forget who you are talking to! (Or rather,
>considering it likely that the Giwer-boob is probably face-down in a
>gutter somewhere, who you are talking over.) The Giwer-boob often lies
>about things that are displayed in public. Most especialy about things he
>said in public. Obviously, the Giwer-boob erroneously assumes that since
>_he_ lies about such things, that others must as well.

>The Giwer-boob is, as far as I can determine, a craven anti-Semitic and
>racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing
>fights. He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has been said
>in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims,
>pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his
>claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel,
>blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, crude sexism, and has
>generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and
>factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to
>read and respond to him. For detailed and documented evidence of this,
>please refer to

>https://nizkor.org/encouragements/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
>http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
>http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
>http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

>Mark

>——————————————————————————–
>”Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
>right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”

>– Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
>——————————————————————————–

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:13 PDT 1996
Article: 65503 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Almost a formula now. Of course the holocaust worked too.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:37:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 8:39:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

How to Create a War

by J. Orlin Grabbe

Can the Clinton administration deliver up a war now that they’ve
decided they need one?
Here are some helpful pointers.

They might try calling in Hill & Knowlton again. Back during our
previous confrontation with
Sadam Hussein’s Iraq, both congress (the House Human Rights Caucus)
and the public
was subjected to the tearful “eyewitness” testimony of “Nayirah” who
told of Iraqi soldiers
taking babies out of incubators and leaving them on the cold floor to
die. The performance
was basically an update of the British propaganda story from World War
I, which told of
German soldiers using their bayonets as spits to roast Belgian babies.

“Nayirah”, of course, later turned out to be the dutiful daughter of
the Kuwaiti Ambassador
to the U.S. And Kuwait had paid Hill & Knowlton $10 million to stir up
American war fever
against Iraq. From Kuwait’s point of view, ten million dollars was a
cheap way to keep the
monarchy in power. Nayirah’s congressional testimony was the jewel in
Hill & Knowlton’s
PR campaign.

And it worked because the truth didn’t matter to an effete and
moribund press. The news
media didn’t inquire into Nayirah’s background, and the congress
didn’t ask any questions.
George Bush repeated the story a dozen times in the next few days,
whipping the public
into an emotional frenzy, to get congressional support for the bombing
of Iraq.

Surely the DNC has an extra $10 million that can be funneled over to
Hill & Knowlton! It’s a
logical fit, when you look at the ties. In 1993, Howard
Paster–formerly head of Hill &
Knowlton’s Washington office–became Director of Intergovernmental
Affairs for the White
House. Lauri Fitz-Pegado, who helped manage the Nayirah gig for Hill &
Knowlton,
became the director of public liaison for the Clinton inauguration.
Thomas Hoog, who
served on the Clinton transition team, became head of the Hill &
Knowlton Washington
office, replacing Paster.

Create a television ad showing a scene from biblical prophecy: a lion
and a lamb lead by
a small child. Then follow that with the “shocking truth”: Kurdish
babies are being used as
viral incubators for Hussein’s biological weapons! First they are
injected with horrible
man-made viruses, and then later they are ground into mincemeat and
placed into the
heads of Scud missiles! Surely congress will vote you a war, when they
get done throwing
up.

One problem though. You have to deal with our allies. France is so
sick of your lying
propaganda about TWA 800, they are starting their own investigation.
And NATO isn’t
going along either. The last they checked, there weren’t any Belgian
babies in the Middle
East.
=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:14 PDT 1996
Article: 65509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-Trolls Control Everything
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:30:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 108
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:31:54 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 15:34:21 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>It’s illegal in New York to have sex with a chicken.

>Troll can’t play with himself?

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar-wager.html

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>[email protected] |———————————————
>——————–| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>Search Nizkor: https://nizkor.org/search.html

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:00:15 PDT 1996
Article: 65510 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Rants… was Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:14:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:16:16 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:43:55 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Clearly I received two harrassing phone calls about a private matter
>> between me an my ISP.

>Private if you consider using Netcom to engage in a campaign of
>harassment, extortion, threats, and of course your multitude of lies
>(where would you be without the lies) to be private. Where did these
>alleged telephone communications originate ? Was it, perhaps, a figment of
>your obviously pickled imagination ?

>> So there is no question in the mind of netcom
>> that there is a conspiracy going on unless of course YFE or the
>> webmale at Nizkor is the source of the the harrassing phone calls.

>This is incoherent. (Why is it that responses to anything you post often
>make use of the word incoherent ?)

Silly little handle.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 15:10:08 PDT 1996
Article: 43235 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Look.. Giwer’s being an idiot again… Re: the usual suspects
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:41:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:43:18 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:45:55 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Idiot handle posts again

>Once again, I would ask you to explain what the hell you are babbling about.

>[incoherent (there’s that word again) .sig deleted.]
You keep missing the sig. Are you truly as illiterate as your handle
suggests?

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 16:27:44 PDT 1996
Article: 65527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring’s Commission to Heydrich
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Sep 1996 03:28:15 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>: The debate on this question was over a long time ago. You lost.
>: It’s time to move on.

>That’s right, Mr. Blackmore. Declare victory, and pull out.

The holohugger tactic of rehashing old subjects every few months has
been long indentified and there is no interest in playing that game
any longer.

A subject that has been discussed and concluded is a matter of record.
There is no value to going over it again and wasting time on it.

Get used to it.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 16:27:44 PDT 1996
Article: 65537 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW “GASSING” IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:56:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:57:32 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:55:17 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>moran) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
>> >
>> >furnace-capacity.jpg
>> >
>> >Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
>> >crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
>> >in 24 working hours.
>>
>> >-Danny Keren.
>>
>> Fifty two (52) cremas said to have been at Auschwitz. 52 into
>> 4756 = 91 a day each oven. 91 into 24 hours = almost 4 an hour. About
>> one every 15 minutes.

>Actually, no. As usual, Moran, you can’t quite seem to get things
>straight. The muffles were charged with two bodies at a time. That would
>give a charging cycle-time of 30 minutes. In addition to this is the fact
>that multiple charges were being cremated per muffle. As one charge was
>partially consumed and fell through the chamotte grid into the ash channel
>where it was completely consumed, another charge was added. What this did
>was to shorten the time between charging the muffles by about 20 minutes.
>So, if it took 50 minutes to completely incinerate a corspe, the charging
>cycle-time was reduced to 30 minutes.

As you know, the burning time is directly proportional to the mass of
the body(ies.) Therefore two bodiea take twice as long. So the two
hour time for one body goes to four hours for two bodies.

But you know that.

>> Figuring unload time and reload time we might
>> say one every 10 minutes. Present day cremations take an average of 1
>> 1/2 to 2 hours to reduce just one body to ashes.

>Moran, according to the “Internet Cremation Society FAQ:”

>”…The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of
>machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a
>cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour.

>Source: http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml#At what temperature

>Now, considering that the Topf furnaces used in the Krematorien at
>Auschwitz were “high capacity” furnaces,

And your evidence of that is? Do you have Topf’s low and high
capacity data to compare with high capacity today?

Of course not. You are making it up as to go along.

High capacity today is gas or oil right under the body. Back then it
was coke shoveled in at one end, which of course brings up why they
chose slow crematoria instead of incinerators but that is a very old
question that holohuggers will never answer.

and that today’s “high capacity”
>furnaces “take less than one hour” to cremate a corpse, you are commiting
>the fallacy of observational selection. You are erroneously comparing low
>capacity furnaces against high capacity furnaces without taking into
>consideration their differences. You are, in essence, comparing apples and
>oranges -and coming up bannanas.

And you are making up what you are comparing them to out of whole
cloth. Present your evidence on capacities then and now. Of course
you can trot out the old Topf claim that with coke and with a lower
temperature that they were faster than today. And if you believe
that, a Topf salesman will call on you in the morning.

>When comapring the incineration time of the Topf furnace (~50 min) with
>that of modern high capacity furnaces (“less than one hour”), it becomes
>self-evident that the _incineration_ times are roughly the same.

50 minutes compared to the required 15 minutes is a bit more than
three times longer than is required, not to mention two bodies in one
oven doubles the cremation time required to 100 minutes gaining
nothing for the time required.

Certainly
>in the same ballpark. The _cylcle-times_ are, however, quite different.
>For civilain crematorien the mixing of remains in the muffle is
>prohibited. This in essence limits the cycle-time of a crematory furnace
>to its incineration time, as only _one_ corpse can be in the muffle at a
>time. Of course, the Topf furnaces used in the concentration camp system
>were not under such restrictions. Because the SS had no reservations about
>mixing the remains of their prisoners, the furnaces could achieve more
>rapid charging cycle-times than civilain furnaces can. The bottom line is,
>of course, that the Topf furnaces used at Auschwitz had higher throughputs
>than civilain crematory furnaces do.

And of course mixing bodies gave no reduction in total time save the
opening and closing times. But you know that. You read the cremation
society page so you have to know that. Otherwise you are deliberately
misrepresenting what it says.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 16:27:45 PDT 1996
Article: 65538 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:29:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:30:28 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 16:32:24 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>> [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>>
>>> Terror? Is it terror to motivate illegal aliens to leave? Does the
>USA
>>> exercise “terror” by forcing thousands of illegal aliens every month
>to
>>> leave the country?

>> The difference — which you refuse to recognize — is that the
>people who
>>you are talking about are not “illegal immigrants.” They are Danish
>citizens either
>>by birth or because they obtained that citizenship by legal means. To
>arbitrarily
>>revoke such citizenship on the basis of ethnic origins is a violation of
>their human
>>and legal rights. There is, to my knowledge, only one country that ever
>so
>>maltreated their citizens. That country was nazi Germany.

>Yeah. The Jews merely kicked Palestinians the hell out, and then some.
>Did you forget about that Yale?

>> You are, and remain, a nazi.

>I guess Israelis are nazis then.

That is not in question and never has been.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 16:27:46 PDT 1996
Article: 65543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The importance of being “anti-semitic”
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50qie[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:20 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:52:23 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>To repeat: another reason that the analogy offered by
>the genocidal Nazi “kurt stele” is false – the attack on
>the “Liberty” was a tragic error. The ship was thought
>to be Egyptian, and the attack took place during the
>3rd day of the Arab-Israeli 1967 war.

>Errors like that happen during wars; just look at all
>the cases of “friendly fire” during the Gulf War.

The attack attack on the Liberty was deliberate, cold blooded murder
just like the attack on the Qana refugee camp.

It was carried out by the savages in the IDF in both cases.

And the murderers are still free.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 16:27:47 PDT 1996
Article: 65545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for those who have any turther questions
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <6SEP199622534830@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 12 10:15:24 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:33:05, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>They might consider telling Matt Giwer to tuck ott, or to go tuck himself, or
>to put some ettort into stopping being such a tucking tool. They might want
>to make him an otter, or just tell him to stutt it.

And they might be saying that JR is one of those traitorous jew
bastards who justifies Israel murdering Americans.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 17:44:26 PDT 1996
Article: 65549 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time (was Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens)
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:28:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51d[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:29:40 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:07:52 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> > The difference — which you refuse to recognize — is that the people who
>> >you are talking about are not “illegal immigrants.” They are Danish citizens either
>> >by birth or because they obtained that citizenship by legal means. To arbitrarily
>> >revoke such citizenship on the basis of ethnic origins is a violation of their human
>> >and legal rights. There is, to my knowledge, only one country that ever so
>> >maltreated their citizens. That country was nazi Germany.

>[snip]
>
>> Nazi Germany did no such thing.

>First Regulation Under the Reich Citizenship Law (15 Sept 1935),
>as passed on 14 November 1935.

>Article 4, section 1.

> 1. A Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich. He has no right to
> vote in political affairs and he cannot occupy public office.

> (https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/nuremberg/nuremberg.003)

>Just how much more explicitely wrong do you want to be proven?

And just what does “can not become” have to do with “removing
citizenship from”?

Please be specific in your response.

After that would you like to take a shot at listing a source of record
for this “human right”?

Of course not.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 17:44:27 PDT 1996
Article: 65564 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:34:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 4:35:55 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:30:40, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
>>From: [email protected] (John Morris)
>>Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
>>Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:18:26 GMT

>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>[snip]

>>> Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill you for
>>>even coming close.

>>> You fucking jew traitor.

>>Feh! Baby talk.

>>Does anybody still take this craphead seriously?

>With a bit of luck, the FBI.

If there in fact has been a complaint filed then, unlike last time,
they are simply disgusted with crank complaint by people trying to
draw them into participation in a flame conference.

Or are you so stupid that you think I can “threaten” on behalf of
another? Perhaps you should better take it as a warning for your own
safety.

After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a person to take?

Or are you planning a JDL type firebombing? After all, fire does
excite the circumcised loins.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 18:10:49 PDT 1996
Article: 65570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:17:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:18:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 03:19:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> Clearly I received two harrassing phone calls about a private matter
>> between me an my ISP. So there is no question in the mind of netcom
>> that there is a conspiracy going on unless of course YFE or the
>> webmale at Nizkor is the source of the the harrassing phone calls.

> You are lying.

I am repeating what I was told by NETCOM and what happened on the
phone. NETCOM told me only two people had been told what was going
on. He named the Nizkor order taker and you.

I can not change that.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 18:10:50 PDT 1996
Article: 65580 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BATF Hit Squad — Tee Hee (Now Get This Guy’s Paranoia!)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:01:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50q[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32[email protected]> <517q1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:313367 alt.revisionism:65580

On 14 Sep 1996 17:24:31 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

> Normal people reading posts like this will understand what ATF
>agents have to wade through in their search for evidence — interviewing
>people like this, enduring their warped tirades, when all the agent came
>around for was to trace the chain of ownership of a crime gun. Of course,
>in tracing such weapons, the agent never knows whether he or she is
>interviewing one more owner in a long chain, or the perpetrator of the
>crime in which the gun was used. Interviewees who launch a stream of
>invective like what’s posted below always made me figure, “this just
>*might* be the wacko I’m looking for.”

What might you be talking about? The BATF has no authority to search
for weapons used in a crime. That is FBI at the federal level.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 19:15:18 PDT 1996
Article: 65594 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the usual suspects
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:20:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 6:21:36 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:49:31 GMT, [email protected] (John
Morris) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[re: his blatant net abuse, reports of which he calls “lies”]

>> I have been over that lie with NETCOM. It is another Nizkor lie that
>>believed by holohuggers because they are such a gullible lot of fools.

>> After all, I am here, am I not? You little fool.

>You just got lucky and decided to call to discuss your suspension
>while sober.

You mean you folks will continue the libel about my suppesed drinking
habits? Is that your entire point?

Rather, unlike you folks, I told the truth. It still carries weight.

>Eventually you *will* shoot yourself in the foot while your foot is in
>your mouth.

>It’s only a matter of time.

Rather there is enough evidence here that people claiming they have
made reports to the FBI really do not believe them. And false
complaints are a crime.

If complaints have been made they should hope the FBI folks never
spend any time reading what they are saying on this conference. There
have already been enough such posts to support charges of filing false
complaints.

And do you really think I do not almost but avoid saying what you are
looking for deliberately? It is so much fun watching you waste the
bandwidth on non-productive issues while the rest of us go about
tearing down the holocaust myths as is the purpose of the newsgroup.

On the other hand, maybe if you cry wolf enogh times …

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 19:15:19 PDT 1996
Article: 65599 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUSTALESE [Tr. CODE FOR ALLIED PROPAGANDA]
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:36:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51e5o9$l[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 6:38:15 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 16:51:22 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>In Article
>>Jeffrey writes:
>> [snip]
>>>Look through any ‘holocaust’ book and you will find numerous examples of
>>>the Germans using ‘camouflage’ terms or codewords, getting the Jews to
>>>send off fake postcards, showerheads to disguise a gas chamber, gas
>>>chambers described on plans of Crematoria as Lichenkeller [morgue] and
>>>so on…..
>>>
>>>Try going through Reitlingers book and counting the examples of
>>>deliberate German deception.
>>>
>>>You will be amazed.

>>This is classic revisionist “logic.” Anytime a Nazi uses
>>euphemisms, they are to be taken at their literal word; and
>>anytime they openly admit their crimes (published confessions,
>>IMT testimony, other trial testimonies), they are _not_ to be
>>taken at their literal word. Thus, when they are lying, they are
>>really telling the truth, and when they are telling the truth,
>>they are really lying.

>The difference John, is that the so-called “admissions” were made under
>duress (on trial, after torture) and the so-called “euphemisms” were made
>without duress by nazis during a time of power when they had no need to
>conceal -anything-.

>In which situation are the Nazis’ statements more likely to be false?
>When made under -duress- (the so-called “admissions”) or when made during
>a time of power and confidence (the so-called “euphemisms”)?

>You would have us believe the reverse.

Actually I find it most interesting that these holohuggers are so
liberal that they laugh at those who find conspiracy and code words in
everything the US government does. Yet they see exactly the same sort
of thing in the Nazi Government.

New World Order means a totalitarian government.

Evacuation to the East means extermination.

All code words and conspiracies.

Waco and Auschwitz, both proof positive to the respective delusional
mind.

The most amazing thing is that they do not see it is the same thing.

Or perhaps it is simply a battle for the superior paranoia?

In any event I would have thought it totally obvious even to the
casual observer.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 19:59:55 PDT 1996
Article: 43266 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Ye shall smell gas where there be no gas
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:38:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50908b$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50g1dr$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 11:40:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:58:00 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G.
Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> It means you are a childish fool unable to deal with adults in open
>> discussion. It means you are like all other holohuggers.
>>
>> The only thing you can deal with are lies and the only thing you cna
>> promote are lies like Ken McVay and his ass kissers just tried to
>> organize and failed in doing.
>>
>> I know you liars are going to try again so why not get about it?

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>Giwer is, as he admits above, a troller whose only interest is in
>causing fights. While he can sound plausible, he has lied about what
>has been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that it seems
>counterproductive to take the time to read and respond to him.

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:10:29 PDT 1996
Article: 313419 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Koresh the Killer
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:53:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 4:55:19 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:313419 alt.revisionism:65606

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:36:34 -0400, [email protected] (John Moreno)
wrote:

>Norman Nithman wrote:

>] In article <[email protected]>,
>] Keith Marchington wrote:
>] >Norman Nithman writes:
>] >
>] >: I believe that Koresh did not kill anyone directly
>] >: but did order an attack on the BATF agents.
>] >
>] > Oh, that must be it! Yeah, Koresh called up the BATF and
>] > said “Say guys, how ’bout you loading up 50 or 60 of your
>-snip-
>] OK, call it a defensive action. Are you saying that the Davidians
>] did not shoot BATF agents?

>No, but IF it was DEFENSIVE ACTION, then it’s a whole new ball game and
>you should admit it. I don’t care WHO it is attacking, if they don’t
>have a legal and moral right to be doing so, shooting them is
>self-defense. So IF that’s the case then YES he DID kill, but it was the
>RIGHT thing to do. Also IF somebody starts a fire fight, THEN you have
>NO obligation to stop it, especially by SURRENDERING to people who
>started shooting at you unjustly.

And that is precisely what all of the evidence (physical that is)
points to.

By all the evidence Koresh went outside to find out what the sound of
gun shots was all about. When he opened the door (unarmed) he said a
few words and was shot. The BATF then proceded to open fire on the
building.

Compare that with the film clips we have all seen of the BATF emptying
their guns into the building without aiming, a method that violates
all regulations. We see absolutely no sign that they are under fire.

Yet the BATF claimed

1) The first person out of the horse trailer was killed which is now
know to be a lie.

2) That they were subject to “withering machinegun fire” when there
is not one sign of it.

3) That they announced their identity and their warrant which we now
know was a lie.

4) That they tried to obtain a cease fire but in fact ignored their
radio asking for it for 45 minutes until they were out of ammunition.

There are more things just in regard to the first few hours but these
are the highlights of events.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:10:31 PDT 1996
Article: 313420 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BATF Hit Squad
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:07:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 5:08:26 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:313420 alt.revisionism:65607

On 14 Sep 1996 15:51:11 GMT, [email protected](Tom Potter) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>>
>>Here’s a guy who can’t tell the difference between agents
>>”opening fire” and agents “returning fire” in the form of
>>a withering ambush.

>It would be interesting to know how many rounds
>the Barney Fife BATF agents took with them to Waco.

I have not come across that answer but they were down to 40 rounds
among them before they were willing to agree to the cease fire the
Davidians tried to get from the moment the attack started.

>The videos show the agents firing very rapidly at a
>building occupied by scores of women and children,
>and yet NO damage is seen to the cars they are
>hiding behind.

And firing like that is against all of the rules of engagement.

>When they ran out of bullets, they called for
>a truce. There were still no bullet holes in the
>cars they were hiding behind, although there were
>thousands of holes in the building occupied by the
>women and children.

>Can you imagine government employees,
>using assault weapons, to shoot thousands
>of rounds of outlawed bullets, into a church,
>occupied by scores of women and children?

There is not need to imagine anything. It happened. And all by
ignoring their being in the gun business.

BTW: In regard to their claim that they did not find any license to
own Class III weapons, it has recently come to light that they had a
policy of perjury in court testimony in claiming their files were 100%
accurate when internal estimates were that they were less than 50%
accurate.

Convictions are being overturned but perjury indictments are not being
sought. It looks like they can get away with it.

>I wonder if Hitler started like this?

Actually he started out with roving gangs of thugs like the JDL.

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:26:37 PDT 1996
Article: 65608 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mem.bellsouth.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Victims and Murderers: Photographs from Belsen Camp
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:11:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323806[email protected]> <519fk5[email protected]> <51bn[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 6:13:15 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 16:43:45 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 12 Sep 1996 17:00:53 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Kind of makes you think, doesn’t–what would these people accept as
>: >evidence? Mass graves, cyanide traces on walls,
>:
>: Lets see, Belsen had no gas chambers yet you say there were cyanide
>: traces on the walls. Thank you for agreeing that cyanide traces have
>: nothing to do with gas chambers.

>Learn to read, Matt.

You mean that you have demonstrated there is no connection but you
insist there is a connection?

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:26:37 PDT 1996
Article: 65610 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Victims and Murderers: Photographs from Belsen Camp
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:12:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:47:03 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>The following photos are in
>>
>>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>>
>>They are all scanned from “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips,
>>William Hodge and Company, 1949.
>>
>>Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>>Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>>Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>>Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>>Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.

> What the Allies found after entering the camp that had been
>deprived of the necessary supplies for months on end. No evidence for
>any intentional Holocaust.

Keren is to gullible to deal with this.

Remember when he was fronting pictures with so signs of burns as
people who had been burned to death?

He hasn’t got the sense he was born with.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:26:38 PDT 1996
Article: 65617 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer The White Courtesy Phone, Part II
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:54:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 04:04:23 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Let me begin with a quote from you:

>=====
>Message-Id: <[email protected]>

>> You analogy is misplaced. There is nothing contradictory or irregular
>> about the bombing of Dresden, nor is there a case to be made against
>> Dresden’s occurrence. If there is someone has yet to bring it forward in a
>> cogent documented fashion.
>=======

>Now, using the very method ‘Revisionist Scholars’ use to
>deny that the holocaust occurred, i will argue that
>Dresden never occurred.

And no one gives a damn about your claim. Therefore no one should
give a damn about a claim that there were no gassings. But there is a
difference.

Why?

>1. the death toll varies? can’t these historians keep their numbers straight?

>’Revisionist Scholars’ like Robert Faurrison, Greg Raven, and the
>like often use the fact that the Auschwitz death toll has varied
>depending on which scholars you spoke with, or when you spoke with them.

Rather that the “death tolls” never totalled six million even though
the number has been dogma since 1945.

>For instance, Robert Faurisson wrote an article (available on Greg Raven’s Web
>site, see http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/misc/auschwitz_deaths.html) listing
>and discussing the various death tolls at Auschwitz over the past fifty
>years. The basic thrust of his article is that any such dispute over the numbers
>argues that Auschwitz was not, in fact, an Extermination camp.

>The implication of this argument is that any historical event with such
>a disparity in the numbers is also invalid, or perhaps even a ‘invention
>of quacks’ as Faurisson put it.

Rather his argument is that they were all made up and were never based
upon a body count. Rather that it was an arbitrary number of 6
million untraceable people out of the total of 31 million untraceable
people. That combined with the complete and total lack of physical
evidence for any gassing and it does leave quite a blank in the Soviet
created story.

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:26:39 PDT 1996
Article: 65618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: All German gold came from tooth fillings
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:20:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 10:21:43 AM PDT 1996
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Nazi gold hoard may have been from teeth fillings

Source: Reuters

NEW YORK, The Reuters World Service via Individual Inc. : The most
famous horde
of Nazi gold captured in the Second World War may have come from
melted down
teeth fillings, according to a previously secret U.S. government
document made
public on Wednesday.

The document, a 1946 letter from a diplomat at the U.S. Embassy in
Paris to the
secretary of state, refers to 8,307 gold bars found in April 1945 by
U.S.
soldiers in a salt mine near Merkers, Germany, along with other gold,
jewels,
gold wedding rings, cash and 400 Old Master paintings.

The treasures stashed at Merkers were sent there by Nazi propaganda
chief Joseph
Goebbels, who wanted to keep the contents of the German Reichsbank and
Berlin
National Gallery artworks from Soviet troops advancing on the German
capital.

The document was found by researchers for the New York-based World
Jewish
Congress in the U.S. National Archives and turned over to the Senate
Banking
Committee headed by New York Republican Alfonse D’Amato, which has
investigating
whether the looted assets of Holocaust victims were still in Swiss
banks.

“We are filled with horror over the document’s content but feel
compelled to
release it by the demands of history and justice. It is just a
horrfying
document,” said Elan Steinberg, the WJC’s executive director, of the
letter
written by U.S. Embassy Minister-Counsellor for Economic Affairs
Livingston
Merchant.

In the letter, Merchant said he put a question mark next to an
inventory listing
for the gold bars because of its questionable origin. He then asked
that tests
be performed to determine if the gold bars represented “gold teeth
fillings and
therefore classifiable as non-monetary gold.”

The Nazis extracted gold fillings from the teeth of death-camp
victims, but the
letter made no mention of where the fillings would have come from.

Steinberg said it was possible that the gold was collected from
victims and
turned into gold bars which were then housed at the Reichsbank.

No other documents have turned up related to the gold bars and whether
tests
were performed on them, he said.

Lynn Nicholas, author of the best-selling book “The Rape of Europa —
Europe’s
Looted Treasures,” said in an interview that it had always been
assumed that
the 8,307 gold bars came from the Reichsbank.

But she said that until the document surfaced there was never a
suggestion that
it came from gold teeth fillings.

“Goebbels had sent the gold bars to Merkers to avoid its being
captured by the
Russians. And he was lucky, Merkers was just inside the U.S. zone of
occupation.
Goebbels had complained that the shipments of gold, cash and artworks
was not
going fast enough and he was outraged that the German railroad system
closed to
observe Easter Sunday,” she said.

She said the paintings were eventually returned to Berlin and it was
assumed
that gold was used to pay reparations.

The British Foreign Office in a report on Tuesday on the fate of the
gold looted
by the Nazis mentioned the Merkers horde as being “the most
spectacular and
substantial.” It said it represented 20 percent of all gold held in
Germany.

The Foreign Office report estimated that up to $7 billion worth of
looted gold
was in Switzerland by war’s end and that 90 percent of it could still
be in
Swiss banks.

It said Switzerland only returned a fraction of Nazi gold to the
Allies after
the Second World War. REUTER@

{RETURNED the Nazi gold to the Allies? What does that mean? It didn’t
belong
to them. How is it that in Germany the source of all gold is Jewish
dental work?
This story is really stupid. There is something worth noting here.
There has been a
shift in the focus of the Swiss bank shakedown story; The initial
focus was on assets of
Jews deposited in Swiss banks by Jews in order to protect those assets
>from theft by the
Nazis; It appears evidence of fantastic sums having been deposited in
this manner has not
materialized. Now it looks like the focus is on assets that might have
once belonged to
Jews or to Nazis that were deposited in Swiss banks by Nazis to
protect them from theft
by the Allies. The posture that is being assumed here appears to be
that all of Germany’s
wealth was stolen from Jews at some point and can therefore be claimed
by the WJC.}

=====

From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 20:56:00 PDT 1996
Article: 65654 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:23:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51cbb1$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 4:24:52 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:18:26 GMT, [email protected] (John
Morris) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill you for
>>even coming close.

>> You fucking jew traitor.

>Feh! Baby talk.

>Does anybody still take this craphead seriously?

YFE takes me very, very seriously. And he is an attorney.

That is either a comment upon seriousness or upon attorneys.

Take your choice.

Matter of fact if you read you can find the claim of an FBI agent
investigating it all, just like last time they went off the deep end.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:12 PDT 1996
Article: 65658 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer the White Courtesty Phone, Part III
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:01:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 7:02:43 PM PDT 1996
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On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 04:31:34 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Let me begin (again) with a quote from you:

>========
>Message-Id: <[email protected]>

>Also, one is allowed to discredit or deny the Civil War or Dresden. But
>Jewish money-power has created strong taboos and prohibitions against
>questioning the Holocaust, and in Germany revisionism has been
>criminalized.
>=======

>’Allowed to discredit or deny the Civil War or Dresden?’

>Do you honestly think if i sailed into a university and
>proclaimed that these events did not happen, i’d be
>treated with anything other than derision and disrespect?

No one would bother with you in making such a claim. Certainly no one
would call it hate speech or condemn it. It would not be worth the
time to condemn.

>And if i then argued that Dresden was simply a German post
>war hoax, you believe people _wouldn’t_ suspect i have
>a chip on my shoulder against Germans?

No. It would only be suspected that you had never looked at the
physical evidence.

>Or even worse, if i argued that the Civil War and the whole
>history of Slavery was simply a concoction of blacks to get
>pity for their current siutation?

>Do you see the racism inherent in that point of view, Kurt?

There is not the least bit of racism in that. Again, it would simply
be a failure ot look at the physical evidence.

>[hint for folks playing along at home: _this_ is why we argue that
> holocaust deniers are anti-semitic. ]

Because you are paranoid and have no physical evidence for your
favorite holocaust.

>Come on Kurt, use your noodle.

>I might add, however, that Holocaust denial is _not_ illegal
>in the US, it is very much allowed. How do you think the IHR
>and CODOH manage to continue operations, or the fact that
>Arthur Butz has _not_ lost his job factor in on all this?

>[Some Jewish money-power conspiracy, to date, there is only
> _one_ country where it is illegal to deny the holocaust. ]

Rather is people like Gord McFee who say they will support laws in the
US criminalizing any questing of the holocaust myths. Of that in and
of itself would be cause for revolution.

>So, one is certainly _allowed_ to deny the Holocaust, and
>we’re allowed to expose them as the loons that they are.

And of course one is also allowed to expose the holocaust as completey
lacking in any physical evidence or basis for belief in it.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:13 PDT 1996
Article: 65659 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: internet harrassment
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:18:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 12:20:06 PM PDT 1996
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Have you or someone you can contact been subject to harrassment
outside of a newsgroup? Has your Internet Service Provider been
harrassed because you disagree with the holohuggers? Do you know
anyone who has been?

Have you been the recipient of mailbombs for your positions? Has
anything out of the ordinary happened because of your position? I
want to hear about it.

If so, please email me or get to others and have them email their
story to me.

I have a small project in mind to come up with material for a web page
that will list and describe the methods and tactics used. If you wish
to write it up yourself or simply tell me about it for me to write up
either way is fine.

It is intended to be an expose of the tactics of the holohuggers in
silencing dissent on the internet. This will be of service to those
who have been hassled in setting the story straight as well as a
resource on the web who may be harrassed in the future.

Whatever you have please email it to me. If I write it up you will
have approval rights on the final version. Anonymity respected.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 65687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:50:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
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On 13 Sep 1996 13:10:08 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> We have been over the hearsay that was reported. Not one mention
>was
>> made of any autopsey.

> Yes. And it was pointed out that an expert like LArson could make use
>of hearsay in his reports. Larson specifically states that his conclusions were
>based on numerous p.m.’s and more visual examinations of cadavers.

> Look it up.

Hearsay is not admissible in any court but a holohugger court filled
with the usual gang of lying holohuggers. And we have been over the
few exceptions so there is no reason to pretend to bring them up
again.

>> Only when what I expect is what happens. You know there are no
>> autopsey reports showing HCN poisoning. Therefore you folks will only
>> claim there are such reports in hopes of finding a way to divert the
>> discussion.

> Since I have posted Larson’s final report stating that at p.m. examination
>he determined the cause of death to be gassing, I haven’t the foggiest idea what
>lie you are currently peddling.

>> Case closed. Lets move on.

> The case that is closed is yours. You are lying again.

YFE is a proven liar with his phone calls to NETCOM. Netcom will soon
start receiving the horror stories regarding the actions of the
holohuggers who think they still rule this medium, like the admitted
mailbomber Alec Grynspan.

But YFE is the best in that he lies about things he has no first hand
knowledge of but he claims to have reported them. If he said “I am a
lawyer and …” then he is subject to disbarment in a misuse of power
as an officer of the court. The matter will, of course, be reported a
thousand-fold.

YFE has himself in an excellent position. He has damned himself
either direction he moves.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 65694 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:54:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 9:55:29 AM PDT 1996
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On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:02:56 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>[nothing really important]

>Hi Matt! Welcome back!

>1. How many bones does _Gray’s Anatomy_, your opinions
>notwithstanding, say compose the skull and pelvis?

>2. What hominid averaged seven feet tall?

>3. Why does standard texts on chemical warfare list HCN,
>and why did NATO give it a STANAG of “AC” if no one ever
>thought of using it in chemical warfare?

>4. Figure out what Raul Wallenberg contributed to the USHMM
>yet?

In accordance with my agreement with Netcom, I will not respond with
the supporting information that Ken McVay requested and then falsely
claimed was a mailbomb when it was only an answer to his questions.

Yours are fewer but still my agreement with Netcom prohibits me from
proving you an idiot in your questions.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:15 PDT 1996
Article: 65695 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day…
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 00:28:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 5:29:31 PM PDT 1996
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On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:22:38 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:14:46 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> When one has dozens of delousing chambers for clothing one certainly
>> >> needs dozens of detectors of the gas.
>>
>> >One who makes statements like “fans cannot move air” should refrain from
>> >talking about technical matters.
>>
>> When you have enough education to understand the comment, get back to
>> me.

>Oh well, how dumb of me to speak of something of which I am ignorant.
>Of course one of my duties as mine geologist is helping out our
>surveyor, who is also in charge of air quality measurements. With
>his work on ventilation I’m quite familiar with fans and moving
>air. I believe the fan sitting on a ventilation shaft about two
>hundred feet from my office is rated at 15 thousand cubic feet per
>minute. And the there’s this really odd sensation, sort of like
>a moving air feeling when I pass one of our smaller ventilation
>fans underground.

>Odd that they seem to move air well. And they are constructed
>like the fan sitting on a desk, only bigger.

>Obviously these fans do not realize that according to GiwerPhysics
>they should not work. Silly, silly fans.

And you are claiming that that there is a single fan of the common
household type of portable fan that blows air down into the the mine
and that is all there is to the system? What a strange claim that but
that is what the holohuggers were claiming about their beloved gas
chambers. Would you like to repeat your credentials?

Now of course if you had followed the discussion you would know that I
pointed out that at least a squirrel cage design was needed (as you
are most certainly using else the back pressure is overwhelming the
system with 200 feet of shaft) and that both an input and out exhaust
fan are needed to create air flow. That is exactly the system used in
mines, on board ships and in the closed loop sense in central home
HVAC. It is also what is required for any “gas chamber”.

As you know the requirement for moving air is both a push and a pull.
Only a push loses most of it effectiveness in creating mainly
turbulence and a back pressure that works against its effectiveness.
Only a pull creates similar turbulence and maintains a negative
pressure. The ideal system with both input and exhaust fans creates a
low turbulence air flow with no change in air pressure.

If you have the credentials you claim, you understand the above. If
you do not then you will not understand it. Either way, you are most
likely to claim it is completely false even though you know it is
true. That is the sign of a holohugger.

If you had been following the discussion, you would know that I
pointed out the complete lack of any such system at any of the
supposed gas chambers.

But you were not following it. You are simply jumping in here in
order to create some fool holohugger point where there is none.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65720 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 19:04:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 12:06:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:54:15, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>Start at 2400 Harrison Avenue in Cincinnati, Ohio. It’s not a good
>neighborhood — smells kind of funny — but it’s a good starting place.
>Follow Harrison East for just over two and a half miles — walking distance;
>it’d be shorter as the crow files — until you come to the second set of
>railroad tracks.

>Walk due south until your hat floats.

>You’ll feel better. Trust me.

Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill you for
even coming close.

You fucking jew traitor.

You murdering Jews are all alike and you are not expected to be any
different.

Should lightening strike my family JEWS will be named because of you.
And of course I will have you on my better dead list. And I am good
at it.

You are advised to spend your time playing bodyguard to my family.

That is the only way you have to save yourself.

Keep that firmly in mind.
=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:17 PDT 1996
Article: 65744 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:08:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <13SEP199623161663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 4:10:11 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:47:23, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
>>Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:14:10 GMT

>>On 13 Sep 1996 23:16 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>>Mittleman) wrote:

>>>In article , [email protected] (Joel
>>Rosenberg) writes…
>>>>Would anybody, perchance, have an address or even just a city name for Mr.
>>>>Giwer?

>>> Tampa, Florida (or in that area, at least). He has posted his address
>>> previously. It may be on his web page. The Cincinnati address, posted
>>> recently (and below), is his parents’ address. No one should go
>>> harrass his parents simply because Giwer is an asshole. Their address
>>> should not be posted on the net as they are not party to any discussion
>>> here.

>> Then why did Ken McVay call them?

>Is this a koan? You’ve been told, more than once, that he didn’t.

All I have is someone who claims whe was lying then but not lying now.
So if he is a liar, when is he lying?

Or is that too hard a question for you?

>If you don’t believe that, suffer. If you do believe that, suffer.

>—————————————————————
>http://www.winternet.com/~joelr
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0380973227/joelrosenbergA/
>…and for the last bit of geekitry: to receive the latest version of my FAQ,
>send me a message with the phrase “your FAQ” anywhere in the subject line.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:17 PDT 1996
Article: 65768 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: internet harrassment
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:42:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 8:43:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:03:44 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Have you or someone you can contact been subject to harrassment
>> outside of a newsgroup? Has your Internet Service Provider been
>> harrassed because you disagree with the holohuggers? Do you know
>> anyone who has been?
>>
>> Have you been the recipient of mailbombs for your positions? Has
>> anything out of the ordinary happened because of your position? I
>> want to hear about it.
>>
>> If so, please email me or get to others and have them email their
>> story to me.
>>
>> I have a small project in mind to come up with material for a web page
>> that will list and describe the methods and tactics used. If you wish
>> to write it up yourself or simply tell me about it for me to write up
>> either way is fine.
>>
>> It is intended to be an expose of the tactics of the holohuggers in
>> silencing dissent on the internet. This will be of service to those
>> who have been hassled in setting the story straight as well as a
>> resource on the web who may be harrassed in the future.
>>
>> Whatever you have please email it to me. If I write it up you will
>> have approval rights on the final version. Anonymity respected.

>Now wouldn’t it be funny, if Giwer actually meant to do this, if
>someone sent him anonymous messages about how those mean and nasty
>holohuggers oppressed them? And made them progressively more
>outrageous. And then publically stated who they were and that
>they were pulling Giwer’s chain and look what a moron he was for
>believing such stupid stories.

>Not that I’m suggesting anything like this, mind you.

Why not try it? I am certainly not a gullible as the holohuggers when
it comes to claims of persecution. They believe anything. I do not.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:18 PDT 1996
Article: 65772 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:01:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3228dc01.2453[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:03:24 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:29584 alt.revisionism:65772

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:20:29 GMT, [email protected] (Ursus Major)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>I think she might have put it better, when discussing you, George, she said:
>>
>>”A coward is a coward is a coward.”
>>
>>You’re not just a braggart and a coward, George. You’re a liar, and proven to
>>be so.
>>
>>Why don’t you find a new name to hide behind? Bear-boy’s gotten old.

>Save some shekles, Joel. Get a solar power cell for your iridium
>yamulka. In the long run, it’s cheaper than 9-volts,
>but not cheaper than your babble. NOTHING’s cheaper than that!

So how can he afford better than tin foil for his beany?

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:19 PDT 1996
Article: 65773 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: photos 13 and 14
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:07:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:09:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

These pictures are particularly interesting in that they show that
whoever providing the captioning that the marks were formations of
prisoners was not up the CIA standards. In fact not up to any
standards at all.

Not only is one of the formations on the roof but it is half off the
roof without breaking formation. And as usual they are all vampires
as they case to shadows.

This is an exercise in false captioning that I posted on a week or two
ago. Someone fakes a caption, imputes it to the CIA (which did not
exist at the time) and suddenly it carries the stamp of approval not
of on the US Government but of Tom Clancy.

These falsifications are as crude as they have been represented to be.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:20 PDT 1996
Article: 65774 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: pictures 14 and 15
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 12:45:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 7:47:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

That is clearly not an advancing column of people although it is
unclear what it might me. Even under the presumption that it is an
exercise is poor airbrushing it is not the sort of image one would
expect to be faked.

Lets assume for the moment that lighter surroundings near the top of
the pictures are part of the same formation as the darker center
structure. With that we have an image that we developed under war
time conditions in the field, not at Langley. (Noting that a CIA
interpretation is interesting as it did not exist until some years
after the war.)

Keeping war time conditions in mind it is reasonable to expect that of
the hundreds of exposures taken and a degree of urgency in the war
effort one can not expect top quality every time.

Developing film is a wet process and negatives were hung to dry. Just
a little sloppiness in development and these enlargements are no more
than simply minor dripping from incompletely washed and squeegied
negatives.

Why the dripping in the same place? It is not quite in the same place
as it is noted that there is a lateral displacement of it dark line.
The drying clips were standard and the liquid would naturally collect
at the clips before dripping. But since the alignment was not perfect
the clip would be in a slightly different place and it collected a
slight bit more liquid.

The darker in the midst of the lighter is simply the “flow” out of the
light area and collecting in the darker.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:21 PDT 1996
Article: 65777 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:00:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:02:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 06:50:24 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 14 Sep 1996 04:27:54 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> > The conclusions of the report have been posted. You are just too lazy to
>> >look up the report for yourself.
>
>> Interesting that I did look it up and it makes no mention of autopsies
>> showing cyanide poisoning. What in the world are you talking about?

> Larson’s report. Were you drunk when you read it?

Making things up again. Perhaps you were hallucinating in a fit of
religious reverie of the thought of blood and murder and dancing
naked?

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:21 PDT 1996
Article: 65783 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: photos 9 and 11
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:37:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:38:42 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

And if you folks remember my analysis of the aerial shots of the
Kremas this author (and these better images) confirm everything I said
about the nature of them in the first place. Those things on the LK
roofs are too big, not in a straight line and cast no shadows.

Even more interesting in photo 9 is that Kremas IV and V (at the
bottom) do not have either LKs nor undressing rooms. The surrounding
structures do not leave room for them in any manner. So they can not
even be salvaged by claiming they don’t show up on the picture.

It is also interesting that II and III have an impossibly thick but
shawdowless “fence” draw in while IV and V have no fence at all, the
rear of each going directly into the barracks area.

In general the huge size of the barracks area is clearly dozens of
times larger than was needed to house personnel to operate the Kremas.

Given all four of them being as close to the barracks as the barracks
are to each other, the suggestion that they might have been mess halls
is certainly worthy of consideration. Also the proximity of them to
the barracks certainly would make them extremely useful with a
secondary utility as bomb shelters.

After all of these claims of the Kremas being hidden and out of the
way it is very interesting to see that they are about 20 (twenty) feet
>from the barracks and with nothing that qualifies as even a fence in
the way.

The schematic in 10 compounds some of these problems while answering
none of them. There are literally over 100 barracks in between the
four Kremas. Even at normal capactiy that would give about 10,000
people an opportunity to view everything that went on at the Kremas.
Overcrowd them and there were tens of thousands of people to see.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:22 PDT 1996
Article: 65784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the 1933 World Jewish Congress boycott of Germnay
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:47:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:48:38 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

There is one thing that has never been published that would cause
Germany Jews to be innocent of the boycott against their own country,
evidence that German representatives to the WJC fought against the
boycott, denounced it when it passed and declared that they would not
participate in it.

Of course that is not what happened.
=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:23 PDT 1996
Article: 65787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If Ole walks like a duck, and Ole talks like a….
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:54:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51c869[email protected]> <51f4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:55:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:00:17 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On 14 Sep 1996 16:28:11 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>#that’s why they elected him. Because they knew he would create a Germany
>#for Germans. They wanted a man who -do-something instead of our “elected”

>Really NOT a student of history, are you, Kurt? Perhaps you’d be well served
>to study how Hitler came to total power in Germany.

Quite true. It would be good for everyone to know that he came to power through
constitutional means and that the government he replaced was governing
unconstitutionally.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:23 PDT 1996
Article: 65791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time and lies while he is at it…
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:56:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51d[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:58:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:22:05 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:07:52 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> >The difference — which you refuse to recognize — is that the people who
>> >> >you are talking about are not “illegal immigrants.”
>> >> >They are Danish citizens either by birth or because
>> >> >they obtained that citizenship by legal means. To arbitrarily
>> >> >revoke such citizenship on the basis of ethnic origins is a
>> >> >violation of their human and legal rights.
>> >> >There is, to my knowledge, only one country that ever so
>> >> >maltreated their citizens. That country was nazi Germany.

>> >> Nazi Germany did no such thing.

>> >First Regulation Under the Reich Citizenship Law (15 Sept 1935),
>> >as passed on 14 November 1935.
>>
>> >Article 4, section 1.
>>
>> > 1. A Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich. He has no right to
>> > vote in political affairs and he cannot occupy public office.
>>
>> > (https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/nuremberg/nuremberg.003)
>>
>> >Just how much more explicitely wrong do you want to be proven?
>>
>> And just what does “can not become” have to do with “removing
>> citizenship from”?

>It should be pointed out, you anti-semetic lying sack of garbage, that the
>section says ‘cannot be’ – not as you lie, ‘can not become.’

Which of course means the stupid handle who continue sending email when he has
been told not to do so can not answer the question.

To repeat, the Nazis did no such thing. And you know it.

>> Please be specific in your response.

>Specifically, you are an anti semite and a liar, who regularly engages in
>harassment, threats, and other abuses of the Internet in order to avoid
>admitting that the Holocaust occured in that the Nazi war machine
>systematically exterminated over 6 million people, many of them Jews.

And managed to do it without leaving the slightest bit of physical evidence, not
even the ashes.

>[Giwer incoherency deleted]

You seen to think it will go away simply because your English is so poor as to
be unable to comprehend it.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:24 PDT 1996
Article: 65796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:52:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50agrb$17s@sjx <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:54:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:190604 alt.censorship:101046 alt.revisionism:65796 soc.culture.europe:47898 soc.culture.german:86121

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:01:45 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (George F. Hardy) writes:

>! >! If you wish to argue the merits of greater free speech (Germany is
>! >! one of the most liberal states in the world in this regard, by the
>! >! way), you can do so.
>! >
>! >Are you that deaf? Germany is not a free nation.
>!
>! Every bit as free as the USA. In Germany I can see a police car
>! come up from behind me without that sudden shock of fear.
>!
>! There is no BATF breaking into people’s homes.
>!
>! You can buy a round trip airline ticket with cash without having
>! the DEA “arrest” your cash.

>The German government demands that everyone carry national ID
>at all times under the penalty of imprisonment for failure to do
>so. We can certainly do without that “progress,” can we?

>Does Germany allow it’s citizens to purchase firearms? Why?
>Because Germany has an unpopular government, that’s why.
>Unlike Germany in 1938, where citzens were allowed to carry
>handguns under license, and long guns were deregulated.
>Unfortunately, even the USA has stricter gun control laws
>than Germany in 1938-1945, though citizens of 36 states have
>won the right to carry handguns under license. Some Eastern Europe
>countries have liberalized their gun control laws allowing handgun
>carrying under the ownership licenses.

For The First Time, A Civilized Nation Has Full Gun Registration!
Our Streets Will Be Safer, Our Police More Efficient,
And The World Will Follow Our Lead Into The Future!”
Adolph Hitler
1935

“I would like to see a Full Gun Registration Bill
So Our Streets will be safer, Our Police More efficient
And the United States as the World Leader.”
Clinton
1993

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 09:27:25 PDT 1996
Article: 65798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:46:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <13SEP199622384[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 10:48:24 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43342 alt.revisionism:65798

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:42:33 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> It is good to see you are not denying either the tactic or that you
>> folks planned your calls and timed your lies for maximum effect.
>>
>> Of course it is interesting that you will call it paranoid but then
>> you folks have been kind enough to provide so many public examples of
>> it that it is clear what has happened.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996 and 19
August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still worked. It
was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just prior to a 256 copy
mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false information. The owner of
gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e.
Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 10:14:21 PDT 1996
Article: 43284 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:00:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <13SEP199608361[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 1:02:02 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:57:00 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G.
Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> We agree that Nizkor is run by a DOD contractor. Beyond that, we also
>> know he is a professed liar.
>>
>> McVay has lied to NETCOM at least through his ego-bereft minions who
>> can only support MCVAY! MCVAY! MCVAY! Sieg Heil!
>>
>> Why would you folks deny that McVay requested what I sent him?
>>
>> Why would he deny that he did in fact request what he was sent?
>>
>> I admit it was a clever set up.
>>
>> And I further agree I fell for it.
>>
>> But now you see, after two months the holohuggers are attempting to
>> cover up for Alec Grynspan major mail bombing of me. It is a trivial
>> matter and the evidence the holohuggers work together to create false
>> and lying allegations has been provided to netcom.
>>
>> And everytime you folks post your nonsense you dig a deeper hole.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

Yes, you folks are so easy to keep busy while serious discussion is
undertaken. It cuts down the interference from those who would make
serious discussion impossible.

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 10:14:22 PDT 1996
Article: 43331 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: The importance of being “anti-semitic”
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:58:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50qie[email protected]> <[email protected]> <519gf[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 9:00:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43331 alt.politics.scorched-earth:543 alt.usenet.kooks:29011 alt.flame:25503 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:544

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:51:10 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:17 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

># The attack attack on the Liberty was deliberate, cold blooded murder
>#just like the attack on the Qana refugee camp.
>#
># It was carried out by the savages in the IDF in both cases.
>#
># And the murderers are still free.

>NOW, NOW, NOW, little, man. Still making accusations you cannot support with
>fact? Poor Matt. He has become a parody of himself.

The UN supported Qana and the report had unanimous approval and only
the US veto prevented ti from being adopted. A veto is not a
conscience vote of not guilty. A veto is despite knowledge of guilt.

And of course sinking a noncombatant is murder.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 10:14:23 PDT 1996
Article: 43341 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:48:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51e7o1$l[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 10:49:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43341 alt.politics.scorched-earth:544 alt.usenet.kooks:29014 alt.flame:25510 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:545

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:51:24 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:15:43 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

># I can do like OBC did. Request information, wait a couple months,
>#and then report the answer as a mail bomb.

>Don’t be a coward, little man. Go ahead and give it a try.

I am not trying to entrap anyone so as to lie about it as he did. It is cowards
like McVay who lie.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 11:00:22 PDT 1996
Article: 65814 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: photo 7, Babi Yar
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:58:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 12:00:18 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

After ridiculing the “geyers of blood” and the “fart eruption” stories about
Babi Yar for so long I greatly appreciate seeing an aerial photo of the area
just after the massacre was supposed to have happened.

It is as I expected. There is not the slightest sign of anything ever having
been disturbed in any manner. It is clear the “witnesses” could not have seen
what they reported as there is nothing out of the ordinary to be seen.
=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 11:00:22 PDT 1996
Article: 65818 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: More spittle and venom for the FBI
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:13:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 129
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 3:14:34 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Sep 1996 15:49:29 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>Would anybody, perchance, have an address or even just a city name for Mr.
>>Giwer?

>Tampa, Florida. The FAX number for the FBI office is 813-273-4566. The
>fax should be marked “ATTN: Agent Skinner”

>>The following, which purports to be a message from him, appears to contain a
>>threat to violence, which is generally acknowledged to be not merely naughty,
>>but often illegal.

>I think Matty-poo’s been drinking again….

> “From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> “Message-ID: <[email protected]>

> “Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will
> kill you for even coming close.
> “You fucking jew traitor.
> “You murdering Jews are all alike and you are not expected
> to be any different.
> “Should lightening strike my family JEWS will be named because of you.
> “And of course I will have you on my better dead list. And I am good
> at it.
> “You are advised to spend your time playing bodyguard to my family.
> “That is the only way you have to save yourself.
> “Keep that firmly in mind.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 13:43:51 PDT 1996
Article: 65829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: photos 1 and 2
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:44:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 10:46:03 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

And I do appreciate seeing aerial photos of Treblinka a year after it was
supposedly destroyed and trees planted.

It is interesting to note that although there is a single rail line running past
the place there is no spur for getting cars off of the main track for unloading.
It is interesting that such a basic and critical feature for such a major
operation does not exist.

This would have greatly compounded the unloading problems so as to clear the
track for the next train.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 13:43:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65839 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.dcom.telecom,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Matt The Giwerdly Lie’n: Coward, blowhard, liar
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:37:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 324
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u1vf[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 11:39:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:65839 alt.conspiracy:88476 alt.discrimination:53448 alt.dcom.telecom:15625 alt.politics.white-power:43357 alt.politics.nationalism.white:29625

On 14 Sep 1996 19:55:17 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

> “Right on, fat broad. Do you have do clean up McVay with your lips
> also? What a stupid and fat broad. If you are interested in the
> dictionary it is right there before fatbroad. The only way you got
> your title is by laying McVay and you know it. You have no other
> qualifications. You contribute nothing. You accept only sperm from
> a thing.” (Matt Giwer, at the height of vulgarity, June 22, 1996)

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>[a notorious, self-confessed liar, [email protected], said]

> “Then why did Ken McVay call them? ”

>[…]

>>Silly giwer.

>”Lying Giwer” is more like it. Telephone companies provide
>services to those being harrassed via their equipment, as this
>self-confessed liar claims to be. The use of such equipment
>for that sort of thing is against the law. All our Giwerdly
>Lie’n need do is contact his telephone company, inform them
>that he is being “harrassed,” and file a complaint with the
>police department.

>Mr. Giwer will not do that, of course, because he is not being
>harrassed by Ken McVay, and filing any sort of complaint with
>either the telco or the local police will establish that beyond
>question within seconds.

>The Giwerdly Lie’n knows that, and that is why he won’t do it.
>The Giwerdly Lie’n is lying – again. Professionaly finished,
>spurned by colleagues, and beset by a dependency he can’t deal
>with, he has descended to a display of public depravity
>seldom seen on the net. No vulgarity, no insult, do depravity
>is too low or too crude for Mr. Giwer.

>Insulting 9-year-old autristic children is nothing to this
>rude fellow; insulting adults with the crudest of vulgarities
>means nothing to this degenerate individual. No insult is too
>gross, no lie too great – not for Matthias Giwer.

>This is, of course, what we have come to expect from this
>sorry individual, who has become notorious on the Internet for
>his lies, abuse of the net, and his vulgar insults.

>While Mr. Giwer may be relatively immune to civil suit – he has no
>assets worth taking, according to those whose business it is to
>know such things – he is most certainly not immune to felony statutes.

>Mr. Giwer would be wise, I think, to desist from his present
>course of action, which sees him hurling specious and defamatory
>nonsense hither and yon, and seek help for his condition.

>To make his absolute corruption in this matter clear, I once again
>challenge him to put up, or shut up.

> Contact the local police, Mr. Giwer. Tell them that Ken McVay
> is harrassing you by telephone, and produce your evidence. Go
> ahead, Mr. Giwer – I have about 20 years to wait while you
> bluster and vomit your excuses once again. (Should they wish to
> speak to me, have them contact the Attorney General of British
> Columbia, the Honorable Ujjal Dosanjh, c/o Parliament Buildings,
> Victoria, British Columbia. He can tell them how how to contact
> me.)

>Will Mr. Giwer do this? No, he will not. Why is that, you say?
>Because Mr. Giwer is a liar and a coward; and, of course, as far
>as I can determine, a troller whose only interest is in causing fights.

>While he can sound superficially plausible, he has lied about what has
>been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
>document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
>refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
>engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself with such
>complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems
>to be no point in taking the time to read and respond. For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>https://nizkor.org/encouragements/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar-wager.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html

But it must be true. People swore to it. As YFE about it. If people say it
then it is evidence of the truth of the statement.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

came from witnesses. Severina Shmaglerskaya who had spent three
years in Auschwitz told of seeing women sent to work within
minutes of giving birth, of babies taken away, of children driven
to gas chambers. No defense counsel wanted to cross-examine her.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

[But now we know that defense council was oftern threatened with imprisonment by
the court for properly representing their clients. Perhaps that explains it.]

=====

Samuel Rajzman, had been taken from the Warsaw Ghetto to
Treblinka. He survived because he could speak Hebrew, French,
Russian, Polish and German; he was needed to act as an
interpreter. He described the arrival at Treblinka station. It
looked like a station. There were signs saying ‘restaurant,’
‘ticket office.’ There was even an arrivals and departures board
but all departing trains left Treblinka empty. For on the
platform prisoners were stripped, women were shaved so that their
hair could be used for mattresses.

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

[And all of this in only five small buildings as we know from aerial photos
taken by the Russians.]

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Rajzman believed they killed between 10,000 and 12,000 people
every day at Treblinka. There were plans to increase the number
of ovens from ten to tenty-five to keep up with the output of the
gas chambers.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

But then Bomba the barber says that the gas chamber was 12 by 12 feet and only
held about 70 people at a time.

=====

He had seen the arrival at the station of his mother, his sister
and two brothers. Friends, sorting the piles of clothes on the
platform, found a photograph of his wife and child. ‘That is all
I have left of my family. Only a photograph,’ he said. None of
the defense counsel wanted to cross-examine Samuel Rajzman
either.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial. But it kept the defense council out of prison.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

It is amazing the documents the Soviets could produce. Or
perhaps we should add to the Nazi physics the Nazi biology that
cancer is an infectuous disease. Or rather we should certainly
learn how they did it as we can only do it these days with rats
specially bred to be susceptable to cancer.

This is certainly very important to cancer research. And the Russians had
documentation for it.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

Those Nazi doctors certainly were incredible people, decades ahead of even
today’s medical knowledge.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

But how could the court refuse to accept in evidence the
statement which Jacob Vernik, a Warsaw carpenter, had given his
government? It described the year he had spent at Treblinka. The
judges knew all too much by now about camps like Treblinka. But
Vernik said that writing his statement had given him the only
reason to continue his life. ‘Awake or asleep I see the terrible
visions of thousands of people calling for help, begging for life
and mercy. I have lost all my family, I have myself led them to
death. I have myself built the death chambers in which they were
murdered. I am afraid of everything. I fear that everything I
have seen is written on my face. An old and broken life is a very
heavy burden, but I must carry on and live to tell the world what
German crimes and barbarism I saw.’

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

But then as we know from the aerial photo there were only five small buildings
closely packed in one small area of the compound.

And then we also know that this person was, IF the story is true, a
collaborator. Collaborators are always punished, unless they are Jewish
collaborators, in which case they are excused.

=====

At the end of a morning session, where the massacre of the
Jews at Vilna was described and Severina Shmaglerskaya gave her
evidence, Doenitz’s counsel Dr. Kranzbuehler asked him ‘Didn’t
anybody know anything about any of these things?’ Doenitz shook
his head and shrugged his shoulders sadly. Goering turned round.
‘Of course not … The higher you stand the less you see of what
is going on below.’ They all ate their lunches in silence that
day.<59>”

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent of the charges. It indicates clearly he knew nothing about any such
orders, plans, policies or events.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 14:07:29 PDT 1996
Article: 43351 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:46:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50c[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50h0jn$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <4SEP199607010[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50tji[email protected]> <50u0k[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <519gi[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:51:14 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:15:48 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>#
>#>So where did you go to university again? Why wasn’t a brilliant person
>#>such
>#>as yourself not given a full scholarship at, say, Harvard or MIT? Unlike
>a
>#>friend of mine and her younger sister.
>#
># I did not apply.

>And would not have been accepted, little man.

How do you know? Do you have the power to see alternate pasts?

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 14:23:06 PDT 1996
Article: 65852 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Medical miracles by Nazi doctors
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:26:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 220
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 11:28:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Here we have the infamous cancer infections by Nazi doctors.

But it must be true. People swore to it. As YFE about it. If people say it
then it is evidence of the truth of the statement.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Amazing nonsense if you look for it.
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:06:45 GMT

Nizkor really does keep some amazing materials on file. It
is a treasure trove of “curious” material. Take for example the
following.

=====

“The thrust of the Russian case on the concentration camps

=====

Bingo. the RUSSIAN (read Soviet) case.

=====

That in itself is curious as the more damaging a witness is,
the more important the crossexamination. Whoever was accused
certainly was not provided with competent counsel.

[But now we know that defense council was oftern threatened with imprisonment by
the court for properly representing their clients. Perhaps that explains it.]

=====

Damn. And we just learned it was doormats. But no one has
turned up a human hair stuffed mattress either.

[And all of this in only five small buildings as we know from aerial photos
taken by the Russians.]

=====

Then they walked up Himmelfahrt Street, the ‘Journey to Heaven’,
to the gas chambers. The whole procedure up to then had taken ten
minutes.

=====

A trainload of people’s heads shaved in ten minutes. That is
even better than the cremation times.

=====

Ovens. Damn. Where are all of those open pit BBQs we have
been hearing about? Rather where are the ovens? Just another
case of can’t see the ovens for the trees so to speak.

But then Bomba the barber says that the gas chamber was 12 by 12 feet and only
held about 70 people at a time.

=====

Again, very inadequate defense counsel. Certainly grounds
for a mistrial. But it kept the defense council out of prison.

=====

Besides such witnesses, the Russians could produce documents
of suffering too – documents on tortures, beatings, castrations,
injections with poison, infections with cancer, typhus, malaria.

=====

This is certainly very important to cancer research. And the Russians had
documentation for it.

Of course it is interesting to note that even if they did
manage it the course of most cancers is years, not months.
Treblinka was not around long enough.

It is also of interest that the Nazis not only had samples of
malaria but were willing to risk all of their own people by
deliberately creating malaria infected food for mosquitoes.

And, of course, typhus. Every place else they are doing
their damnedest to keep it under control for their own protection
yet here they deliberately start cases of it.

Those Nazi doctors certainly were incredible people, decades ahead of even
today’s medical knowledge.

=====

They had too many documents.

=====

A master of understatement.

=====

FWIW, he is a carpenter so those claimed gas chambers were
made of wood so they were completely oil soaked.

But then as we know from the aerial photo there were only five small buildings
closely packed in one small area of the compound.

And then we also know that this person was, IF the story is true, a
collaborator. Collaborators are always punished, unless they are Jewish
collaborators, in which case they are excused.

=====

Fascinating that this recounting makes Goering appear
innocent of the charges. It indicates clearly he knew nothing about any such
orders, plans, policies or events.

=====

(Tusa,

200-201)

<59> Gilbert (G.M. Gilbert, “Nuremberg Diary,” Eyre and
Spottiswoode, 1948)

Work Cited

Tusa, Ann & John. The Nuremberg Trial. Birmingham, Alabama:
The Notable Trials Library, Division of Gryphon Editions, Inc.,
1990

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 15:34:20 PDT 1996
Article: 65857 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Opinions on Nuremberg
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:41:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <322dc389.192[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 14 4:42:34 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Sep 1996 11:16 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes…

>>… Little Tommy can get off his ass and access much of the
>>information on-line, assuming his rigii finally works. Since he is so
>>familiar with Nizkor, I’m sure he will find it very quickly.
>>
>>Failing that, there is a little thing called libraries. I am sure that after
>>several tries, Tommy will be able to figure that one out too.
>>
>>One common characteristic of deniers seems to be their reluctance to do
>>research. Wonder why?

> The Jews won’t let them?

Research is not reading researchers save to liberal arts pukes.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 15:34:21 PDT 1996
Article: 65863 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:46:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]> <13SEP199608361[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43367 alt.revisionism:65863

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:41:23 -0400, [email protected] (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Silly little handle.

>Please note Message-ID <[email protected]> posted on
>or about September 6, 1996 in which Giwer states:

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt and the
>various subdirectories beneath this. Of particular interest will be:

> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>A Web-based guide to the Giwer files can be found at
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/ .

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> “What’s going to happen?” “Something wonderful…” — ‘2010’

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996 and 19
August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still worked. It
was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just prior to a 256 copy
mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false information. The owner of
gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e.
Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 15:36:58 PDT 1996
Article: 65861 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Osland Aktionen!
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 21:26:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 09:00:37 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA) wrote:

>Archive/File: holocaust/poland/reinhard/sobibor ostland.1
>Last-modified: 1993/03/07

>OSTLAND:

>Someone recently added up the deportation figures I had posted from the Arad
>book and noted that the total did not include all of those thought to have
>died – I believe the total was in the neighborhood of 1.7 million. My
>response included the information that the deportation figures taken from
>the Arad book noted below were only for Operation Reinhard, and with very
>rare exception, did not include Auschwitz or other camps (Chelmno, etc.).

>The sections on Bialystok District and Reichskommissariat Ostland shed
>additional light on this question by including the activities of the SS
>Einsatzgruppen….

>”The majority of the Jews in these territories were killed during the
>Aktionen of the mobile SS Einsatzgruppen which had operated there in the
>first months after the occupation, in the summer of 1941, and later by the
>civilian German administrative authorities in Osland. The large-scale
>killing operations were carried out in Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia in
>the summer and autumn of 1941 and in Belorussia during 1942. The
>extermination actions were carried out by taking Jews out to locations in
>the vicinity of places in which they lived and shooting them there.

>After these Aktionen Jews remained only in the few ghettos that existed in
>the larger cities. The number of Jews who were in these ghettos at the
>beginning of the summer of 1943 was 72,000. They were concentrated in six
>ghettos, in the cities of Vilna, Kovno, Shavli, Riga, Minsk, and Lida. On
>June 21, 1943, Himmler issued an order to liquidate these ghettos. The able
>Jews who were needed for work were to be sent to concetration camps that
>would be erected in Ostland to service the war economy. According to
>Himmler’s order, the ‘non-essential’ inhabitants of the Jewish ghettos were
>to evactuated to the East. This term — ‘evacuation to the East’ — meant
>that they would be sent for extermination.” <1>

And when Bush said New World Order he meant a worldwide, totalitarian government
and gun confiscation.

You folks have no idea how silly you sound.

But then maybe you really have it. It was real liquidation which was poured
into the ground to disappear forever.

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 17:18:49 PDT 1996
Article: 65888 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Messianic Judaism
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:40:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 15 11:41:51 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

“It is an insult to the six million jews who died defending their religion.”

A. James Rubin, Rabbi

CNN headline news 2:41 EST 15 Sept 96.

Now they died defending their religion? Will revision of history never cease?

=====

From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 17:47:24 PDT 1996
Article: 65906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:15:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 140
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51e[email protected]> <51g[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 15:13 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 15 Sep 1996 06:50:24 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> On 14 Sep 1996 04:27:54 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>> > The conclusions of the report have been posted. You are just too lazy to
>>>> >look up the report for yourself.
>>>
>>>> Interesting that I did look it up and it makes no mention of autopsies
>>>> showing cyanide poisoning. What in the world are you talking about?
>>
>>> Larson’s report. Were you drunk when you read it?
>>
>> Making things up again. Perhaps you were hallucinating in a fit of
>>religious reverie of the thought of blood and murder and dancing
>>naked?

> Yale, shame on you! On Rosh Hashanah too… :>

> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest
> is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he
> has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others
> of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which
> contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
> emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted
> himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity
> that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to: URL
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996 and 19
August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still worked. It
was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just prior to a 256 copy
mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false information. The owner of
gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e.
Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

> Oh, and to save Giwer the trouble of putting down his bottle long
> enough to respond with his standard troll to this, let me add it here:

>> Whois Ken McVay?
>>
>>McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
>> 462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
>> Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
>> CA
>> 1-604-382-0615

> [DoD information deleted as it is hopelessly out of date, but the
> interested ready can easily find it in Giwer’s old trolls, or out on
> Deja News]

> And as Giwer has Nizkor’s address wrong in this troll, allow me to add
> the correct address:

> Donations for the Nizkor Project’s efforts may be made payable to

> The Zikaron Society / Nizkor Project

> Please mail your cheque to

> The Zikaron Tolerance and Remembrance Society
> 6540 East Hastings Street, Suite 221
> Burnaby, BC V5B 4Z5

> Canadian income tax receipts will be issued.

Even though Nizkor does not have tax exempt status as last reported here.

> Hope this helps; enjoy your bottle, Giwer.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 12:43:31 PDT 1996
Article: 66097 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!news4.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!timbuk.cray.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

It is often suggested that because historians have looked at the holocaust and
pronounced it true then it becomes the standard that must be negated. That
would appear a reasonable assumption on the surface and of course that is the
purpose of a fallacy, to appear reasonable.

The facts are otherwise. First, there are exactly two historians who have
investigated and published on the holocaust. (People like Wiesel and Hilberg
are not historians.)

Second, they have not investigated the holocaust. The basis for the holocaust
is the Nuremberg trials. What they have done is pick and choose from the
Nuremberg record to construct a plausible holocaust from the absurdities of the
Nuremberg record.

Thus we are not discussing the acceptance of the Nuremberg record but the story
constructed from the record by those two historians. The issue of “acceptance”
as the null hypothesis is only the issue of the two versions of the holocaust
that were constructed by these two people.

As such this does not qualify as a null hypothesis. Two people do not
constitute a consensus of historians.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 12:43:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!news4.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!timbuk.cray.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer the White Courtesy Phone, Part IV
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 18:22 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes…
>>
>>The internet is the death of the Holocaust.

> Fascinating philosphical statement. I wonder, do you – deep down –
> think that the internet is the death of the Holocaust becuase you think
> the internet can be manipulated to obscure and defeat the truth, or is
> it becuase – deep down – you think that the Holocaust didn’t happen and
> you think the internet will, in the end, ensure that the truth
> prevails?

Since when is what has been culled by two historians out of the absurdities of
Nuremberg considered the truth? If anything, Nuremberg is the truth,
absurdities and all. Not the work of two people trying to make it less than
laughable.

The “truth,” as any historian will tell you, can not be determined until after
the participants in events are dead. That means there are 20-30 years to wait
until there can be any truth openly published about the holocaust.

After all, one can not even suggest that crematoria do not mean gas chambers
these days. That is hardly a climate of open discussion.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 12:43:33 PDT 1996
Article: 66103 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:20:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:33:10 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> MARINES MET DEATH ON USS LIBERTY
>> San Antonio Express-News
>> August 11, 1996
>> By Maury Maverick

>This, of course, has nothing to do with the Holocaust, and the fact that
>the Nazi war machine systematically set out to exterminate over 6 million
>people, including Jews, political prisoners, Gypsies, and homosexuals.

Were it not for Jews getting the US into WW I and the creation of the holocaust
legends by the Soviets at Nuremberg those men would be alive today as there
would have been no Israel to murder them.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 14:01:35 PDT 1996
Article: 66117 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:12:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 15 Sep 1996 23:33:45 GMT, Laura Finsten wrote:

>Ourobouros wrote:

>[…]

>>I thought their tactic was to bore anyone attempting an alternative view
>>of the hoaxacost. You are right however, their tactic is not to have a
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>meaningful argument. I have done the ultimate sin by asking them to
>>actually provide some answers.

>Still professing not to be a Holocaust denier, “Mr. Stone”?
>Your error has not been in asking people to “provide some answers”, as
>you suggest, but in asking questions founded on a false conception of
>what historians have actually said about the Holocaust.

Neither of them have said anything about the holocaust. They have only erased
the absurdities from the Nuremberg trial testimony. Of course they have never
justified what they have omitted based upon other than considering those parts
absurd. Neither of them have ever explained why they kept the parts they did.

Because your
>questions came from a false basis, they were unanswerable questions,
>”Mr. Stone”. I indicated to you the error in your allegation that
>the Einsatzgruppen were responsible for only about 137,000 deaths,
>yet you did not acknowledge the correction, or modify your earlier
>question in light of this. But it seems you aren’t easily “goaded”
>into doing any real research.

Actually that had to have been responsible for 4.2 million deaths. But you know
that.

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 14:01:36 PDT 1996
Article: 66118 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: speaking of historians and other mythmakers
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:12:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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The two holocaust historians that is.

What they have never explained is why they have deliberately ignored so much of
the sworn testimony given at Nuremberg. They have abitrarily deleted all the
sworn testimony to steaming, electrocution and suffocation without the slightest
justification.

It is not as though they themselves ever interviewed the Nuremberg witnesses
(not that more than a few of them could ever be found again) nor that they
relied upon Nuremberg testimony as they have cleared ignored so much of it.

Clearly the only conclusion is that these two historians have not functioned as
historians at all but rather as mythmakers in their own rights.

One can not arbitrarily ignore huge sections of the historic record,
particularly when the part ignored is based upon the investigative efforts of
four nations with unrestricted access to all of Europe, all the evidence and all
of the witnesses, and a budget that would make a special prosecutor envious.

No historian can pretend to even approach that effort or have that capability.

Yet they do pretend to arbitrarily exclude the embarrassing parts of it, like
the steaming and the electrocution.

Further they have ignored the electrocution and the steaming without visit one
to the scene of the crimes much less the investigative resources of the nations
whose investigative evidence they are ignoring.

It us unclear how one can claim to be either an historian or a student of the
holocaust and do such arbitrary and capricious exclusion of such huge amounts of
the Nuremberg testimony.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 14:01:37 PDT 1996
Article: 66119 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:12:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43457 alt.revisionism:66119

On 16 Sep 1996 11:28:43 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Excuse me. You claim the number has always been the same.
>: Therefore prior to the revision the total was

>: 4 million + others = 6 million

>: After the revision it was

>: 1 million + others = 6 million

>: Please explain which of the “others” increased at the same time
>: Auschwitz decreased. It is simple arithmetic. The “others” has to
>: have increased by 3 million. Which ones did?

>Actually, the real question is just what Myshkin thinks he is accomplishing
>by reposting the same lie multiple times. Does he really think that we’ll
>suddenly lose our ability to refute it?

If you wish to throw out the conclusions of the IMT as a lie you will have to do
more than simply declare it a lie. The IMT is the source of the pre-Auschwitz
revision.

>The estimates of the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust were done
>by numerous historians who used different methods.

There have been only two historians in the business and they arbitrarily and
capriciously reject anything about the IMT they do not happen to like.

Dawidowicz, for example,
>obtained her figure of 5.9 million as the difference between pre- and
>post-war populations.

Unfortunately that can only be based upon pre and post war European populations
in the years in which census were taken. That is hardly rigorous as there no
census that coincided with the beginning and end of the war in the countries of
interest.

Nor does it deal with emmigration.

Nor does it deal with those who died going to, staying in, and returning from
Siberia.

Nor did the Soviet Union ever publish an honest census in its entire existance.

Nor does it identify a cause of death, such as honorable service in the Red
Army.

Nor does it take any fraction from the 31 million untraceable on any rational
basis.

Other than that, some uncritical people may be taken in by nonsense such as
that.

But it does coincide with the conclusion of all the investigations conducted by
four nations with complete and unrestricted access to all of Europe.

She did not explicitly count the individual methods
>used, although she does quote Hoess’s estimate of 2.5 million killed at
>Auschwitz. On the other hand, Hilberg,

Hilberg was not then and is not now a historian. And do not forget that as of
1989 he had spent exactly one day at Auschwitz. Quite the researcher. But then
he was officially a professor of PoliSci and Public Affairs at the time. It was
only later that someone bought a chair in history for him.

writing in 1961, came up with
>a figure of “at least” 5.1 million, and he did divide the number of
>deaths by category. He calculated that about 1 million people were
>killed at Auschwitz. He did that by subtracting the number of people
>left in Auschwitz at the time of its evacuation from the number of
>people sent there.

Impossible as by that method, recorded entries, all deaths are accounted for by
natural death, disease and accident. No gassing by that method. The celestial
buzzer is sounding.

But the important point is that he used the “1 million
>plus others” to get a figure of over 5 million at a time when the
>”official” number killed at Auschwitz was still 4 million.

Obviously you studied arithmetic in public school.

>Now if we could just get him to post that physical evidence of the
>Dresen firestorm that he keeps promising us. . .

It is all there if you are willing to admit it. But then everything you have
cited above are groundless estimates, not physical evidence.

=====

The muderers of the LIBERTY are still free!

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 14:01:37 PDT 1996
Article: 66120 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:49:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <6doD[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 06:54:27 -0600, [email protected] (N.O. Monaghan) wrote:

>Ole Kreiberg ([email protected]) wrote:
>: In article <[email protected]>, Ken McVay OBC wrote:
>: Terror? Is it terror to motivate illegal aliens to leave? Does the USA
>: exercise “terror” by forcing thousands of illegal aliens every month to
>: leave the country?
>
>The USA seems quite happy to deport innocent, law-abiding citizens to
>be tried on trumped-up charges in countries which they have never
>visited or had any othere connexion with.

Particularly if mudering Israelis and “American” jews invent enough evidence to
justify it.

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 18:39:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66133 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time and lies while he is at it…
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:47:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51d[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51h5i[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 05:02:23 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: Rajiv K.Gandhi) wrote:
>: >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>: >> Keith Morrison wrote:

>: >> >First Regulation Under the Reich Citizenship Law (15 Sept 1935),
>: >> >as passed on 14 November 1935.
>: >>
>: >> >Article 4, section 1.
>: >>
>: >> > 1. A Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich.
> ^^
>: >> And just what does “can not become” have to do with “removing
>: >> citizenship from”? ^^^^^^
>:
>: >It should be pointed out, you anti-semetic lying sack of garbage, that the
>: >section says ‘cannot be’ – not as you lie, ‘can not become.’
>:
>: Which of course means the stupid handle who continue sending email when he has
>: been told not to do so can not answer the question.

>Which means that there IS no question, Matt. You changed the quote.

>Let’s make this simple, so you’ll understand it:

>The original post, quoting from the Nuremburg laws, said “A Jew cannot
>BE a citizen of the Reich.” If a Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich,
>then obviously any Jew who holds German citizenship has just had said
>citizenship revoked.

>To support your claim that “The nazis did no such thing,” you falsely
>quoted the original article as “cannot become.” You did this without
>deleting the original, either because you subconsciously want to be
>caught at this sort of thing or because you are an idiot. The “question,”
>therefore, is based on your mendacity, and ceases to exist.

>How long are you going to keep this up, Matt? Aside from Tom Moran,
>who has the mind of a five-year-old, and “Kurt Stele,” an admitting
>antisemite and obvious nazi sympathizer, there’s nobody on this group
>who takes you seriously anymore. Isn’t it about time you started
>posting to rec.pets.cats or something? I hear cats are actually
>agents of Satan; I’m sure you could build a good case for that…

Since you have such knowledgeable disagreement with what I have posted, will you
please post the evidence of Jews being stripped of citizenship? It is a legal
process. I person has to be identified as Jewish according to some criteria and
then the citizenship formally removed in court.

Obviously there will be court records available. There will also be references
to the process of removing citizenship.

As you have so clearly read them, I am certain you will be willing to share them
with all of us.

But you will not. You will attempt to dodge the question again.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 18:39:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66162 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:34:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 11:33:36 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:

>[A few pointed questions deleted]

>: Yours are fewer but still my agreement with Netcom prohibits me from
>: proving you an idiot in your questions.

>I will confess that this is the first Usenet posting that has actually
>succeeded in making me laugh out loud in several months. Good work,
>Myshkin.

>—–
>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>—–
>”Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.” — The French Knight

Now you know that cheap insults always lead to the following.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July 1996 and 19
August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email address still worked. It
was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It disppeared just prior to a 256 copy
mailbomb from gryn.org saying that it was false information. The owner of
gryn.org, Alec Grynspan, openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e.
Israeli intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 18:39:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:13:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51e7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 09:02:27 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:43:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan
>>wrote:
>>>If you ask for [physical evidence], you’ll get it.
>>
>> I can do like OBC did. Request information, wait a couple months, and
>>then report the answer as a mail bomb.

> Perhaps Mr. Giwer will post the alleged request from Ken McVay which
>could possibly have been legitimately answered by the mail which was sent.

> Then again, given that he is a proven and self-confessed liar, perhaps
>he won’t.

I do not keep two+ month old mail. That was of course the game McVay was
playing. After all, if there was a problem with a mailbomb why did he wait 2+
months to complain about it? Can you explain the delay?

And if there was no problem with it, why report it at all?

If you were to receive a mail bomb would you wait over two months to report?
And if so, why?

Is there something about this that I have to make so simple that even a
holohugger can understand?

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 19:19:03 PDT 1996
Article: 66177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Earn satisfaction in your spare time
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:29:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <519ght$7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:03:13, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article <51i2og$[email protected]> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

>>What we know is that Giwer is one of the more proficient liars on the Net.

>With respect, I *very* strongly disagree. He’s prolific, not proficient.
>He’s not even as proficient as George “Dementia Praecox” Lehmann…

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded! Keren bullshits again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

Hey, Keren! Where is your story about the Polish “spies” not getting
close this time?

” The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the
chambers. There are terracota floors in the chambers which become very slippery
when wet … All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were
collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were
driven on by rifle butts, by whipping and kicking…Many slipped and fell, the
next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply
thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically
closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over.”

IMT XXXII – pp. 156-157.

This affidavit was part of the opening prosecution, read into the record on
December 14, 1945. It is quoted in part in GM Gilbert’s *Nuremberg Diary* p.
69. To say that it is not eyewitness testimony is a technicality.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 20:33:51 PDT 1996
Article: 66185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What do they do with the $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 01:16:34 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>:
>: The Jews have collected billions of $$$$$, hundreds of billions
>: $$$$$, from exploiting the Holocaust story.
>:
>: What do they do with this $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$?

>They use it to build orbitting mind-control lasers, Tommy. Better
>check your tinfoil.

Actually it is used to support Israel, which is to the US as Cuba was to the
Soviet Union. Were the US to pull out there would be an immediate reduction in
the standard of living by between 10 and 20% presuming the same rate of military
expenditure. (Compare US aid per capita with per capita income.)

By the same measure find the fraction of German reparations as a percentage of
per capita income and see what a backward nation is really is. It is like the
small African countries, they want universities before infrastructure; an Aswan
Dam before there is an industrial need for the power it produces.

It is all for the image of an advanced nation when what major industry it has
survives only because of government ownership and subsisdies like any other
primitive socialist country. And, yes, I have heard the response to this, that
street vendors and cab drivers are free enterprise. Service industries are not
infrastructure no matter how much holohuggers would like them to be.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 20:33:51 PDT 1996
Article: 66186 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Does anyone have it?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51eoji$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <323c413c.10382253@news.pacificnet.net> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 17:19 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>> Mr.Mittleman refuses to help adversary. If Mr.Mittleman thinks
>>the records of the Nuremberg Trials are supporting of the Holocaust
>>story, why doesn’t he just help Mr.Giwer. Just think, Giwer gets what
>>he needs, posts something, giving Mr.Mittleman and any others the
>>opportunity to come back with the heavy intellectual debunking of
>>Giwers analysis.

> Because, Tommy, Giwer isn’t interested in debating the Holocaust.
> Giwer is a troll who is simply obfuscating the discussion here.

As you know, no one ever expected a discussion of the holocaust until I got
here. This is a well known flame conference and it is well known that the
holohuggers start the flaming.

We
> know this from a number of things Giwer has posted in weaker moments.
> For example:

> <[email protected]>:

> I have no desire to help Giwer railroad discussion. I have no respect
> for Giwer as a human being.

Such an ego. Why would anyone care about your respect?

>I have no desire to have dialogue with
> Giwer.

Were you qualified to do so that might have some meaning.

> I also do not have personal access to the trial transcripts and I have
> no desire to do the legwork for him or anyone else who could do it just
> as easily as I could.

But it appears I do have access to major parts of the IMT transcripts and pust
them regularly. Why is it you can not do what I have done? Or perhaps you have
and would rather not discuss it?

> That should be sufficient and rational reason.

For not dealing with the transcript excerpts I have posted?

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 20:33:52 PDT 1996
Article: 66187 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cultural diversity
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:06:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Consider those who celebrate ethnic diversity are the last who would allow a cow
to wander into their home and shit on the floor.

They might or might not agree with drowning newborns as long as it was sex
neutral.

They would never offer the hospitality of their yard so that a family could set
up housekeeping under their tree.

Rather those who applaud ethnic diversity pick and choose just which aspects of
that diversity they will accept. And in doing so they are exactly the bigots
they pretend not to be.

If diversity is truly a desirable objective then there can be no filtering of
which aspects of diversity are acceptable without demonstrating a rather cynical
form of hypocrisy.

It is sort like of the dilemma that was faced by Western European Jews not many
decades ago. Accepting Eastern European Jews meant accepting their
superstitions and their body lice. Accepting diversity meant accepting both
without comment much less condemnation. Could they be washed and sanitized to
participate in Western European life?

After all, the US never did get over Castro’s first official visit when he tried
to get room service to send live chickens to his room.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 20:33:53 PDT 1996
Article: 66188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.net66.com!jolt.pagesat.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Revisionists Today are Winning on A.R.
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 18:12 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes…
>>People today are more suspicious than ever.
>>
>>Conspiracy theories abound. Movies such as “JFK” question the “official
>>line” and present evidence of a cover-up. People who were once dismissed
>>as “conspiracy nuts” are now having the evidence for their theories heard,
>>and believed, in the mainstream.

> {raising my hand} I plead guilty! I used to be a JFK conspiracy nut
> and now I am in the mainstream. {why is everyone looking at me funny?}

>>Polls indicate an increasing distrust on the part of the people towards
>>the government and the media. It is not an exaggeration to say that there
>>is an increasing number of people in the nation today, far more than ever
>>before, who believe they are being deliberately -lied- to.

> Poll citations please? Oh, I forgot. Stele never actually produces
> any data…

>>JFK’s assassination, The Gulf of Tonkin incident, Watergate, Iran-contra,
>>Waco and Ruby Ridge, Hillary’s commodities venture, Vincent Foster’s
>>suicide, and several others, collectively add up. The public is indeed
>>more skeptical than ever of the “official line” that the government and
>>the media tells them.

> Vince Foster’s suicide, now there’s a controversy. {did someone cross
> post this to the Rush Limbaugh group or something?}

>>Enter alt.revisionism.

> OK, this is where I came in. I was reading sci.skeptic {of all groups}
> about four years ago when Dan Gannon began to cross-post from
> alt.revisionism over there. As I am a fairly devout skeptic, I got
> curious about what I was reading and drifted over to alt.revisionism to
> read more. Initially I posted that I could be swayed either way and,
> as a skeptic and trained researcher, I wanted to see what worts of
> evidence each side could put forward.

> Time and again the archivists were able to defend the conventional view
> of the Holocaust with documentation, evidence, and citations to primary
> sources. Few “revisionists” even attempted to compete by putting
> forward lucid, analytical, logical, and supported arguments. The
> arguments of those few “revisionists” were easily shot down by the
> archivists. It didn’t take skeptical me long to realize which side
> could make its case. And as time went on it became more clear that the
> only ones posting here on the denier side were anti-semites, crackpots,
> or individuals with significantly limited analyticial capacity.

Anyone who can be swayed towards the conventional holocaust story by claims of
hearing maniacal laughter of pilots over the engine and of being able to see the
faces of pilots from inside a closed wagon certainly can not claim to have ever
been a skeptic. It is also unclear how such stories can be considered “lucid,
analytical, logical.”

>>The Holocauster A-team continually posts the assertion that people won’t
>>believe revisionists because revisionism “sounds crazy.”

> Well, yes and no. The revisionism presented in a.r to date does sound
> crazy {to loosely use the vernacular.} More precisely, it does not
> hold up to scrutiny.

But you believe fervently that gelatinous masses of clothing and flesh as a
result of cyanide poisoning does hold up to scrutiny. What a skeptic! Only in
Holohuggerland!

Now this does not preclude that some day some
> revisionist will come along and mine evidence which does hold up to
> scrutiny, but so far there is no evidence to suggest that will ever
> happen.

The evidence of rigid adherence and gullibility of holohuggers to so much
nonsense, of which the above are two minor examples, demonstrates that
holohuggers have not the slightest ability or interest in scrutinizing anything.
It is easier for them to believe the impossible than to think for themselves.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 22:05:27 PDT 1996
Article: 66197 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 03:52:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:28:16 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># We have no had more than a few American citizens support the
># murder of their fellow Americans on the USS Liberty.

>It was an error. The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship.

Only an unamerican Israeli sympathizer would make such a statement. IT is
clearly a lie.

>It happened in the midst of a war.

>Similar tragedies happened during the Gulf War.

Not a one, Yid.

># As such they are not really citizens but rather people who
># deserve death at best

>At best?
>
># This include Joel Rosenblum as a traitor to the US.
> ^^^^^^^^^

>It’s Rosenberg, Matty.

>Now go to bed.

As you have sided with Israeli murderers I have little so day to you other than
to regularly point out that you suppport cold blooded murder when done by
Israel.

You have sided with murderers. You are a murderer as was Ivan the Terrible.

Sorry about that.

I did not make you what you are. You chose Israel over the US on your own.

You are a traitor.

Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you first as you can not be
trusted to have loyalties to the US above all others.

Ever since WW I it is clear that Jews have organized such that they can not be
trusted to support the country of their residence.

What is really of interest are the peace time warriors who side with Israel
against their own country such as Pollard and Schumer and the now dead Jacob
Javits. Traitors at the least but treason can not be proven. But clearly
anyone voting for a traitor is also a traitor.

It is not as though this is a secret. All of the facts are well known.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 22:59:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66200 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s rave review for nixing Zundel’s air time.
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51i2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 15 Sep 1996 21:53:24 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:

>>Kurt Stele ([email protected]) wrote:

>>: >Yeah. “The Media” doesn’t give a hell of a lot of coverage to
>>: >flat-earthers, either. That damned intolerant media.
>>:
>>: as if the Holocaust is as scientifically and mathematically airtight as
>>: the round earth theory (geesh. You wish)

>>History isn’t a scientific or mathematical discipline, Kurt. Within
>>the constraints of the methodology, however, it’s just as airtight.
>>The historicity of the Holocaust isn’t vaguely controversial, and is
>>doubted only by a tiny number of crackpots.

>>Such as yourself.

>>: If there were huge evidentiary gaps in the “round earth theory” it
>would
>>: be permitted on the airwaves and discussed at length. One can be a
>>: flat-earther without problem but if one is revisionist he can be thrown
>>: into jail. Obviously the reason for censoring revisionism are political
>>: and not scientific.
>>:
>>: Jewish money power and politics is the reason why it is censored.

>>Golly, Kurt–Jews are a much more influential group in the US than
>>in Germany; and yet holocaust denial is censored in Germany, and not
>>in the US. How can such a thing be?

>The fact is, revisionism in America -is- censored, but instead of being
>done by the government it is done by the media. Censorship is censorship,
>whether done by the government or by media bosses.

>And holocausters denounce Nazis for censorship yet support censorship when
>done by the government (in Germany) or by the media. It’s pure hypocrisy.

It is just a matter of who is in control.

The real hypocrisy is from people like McVay who vociferously support Zundel’s
freedom of speech … but not in Canada. All he wants is to see Zundel deported
to Germany where Germany will punish his freedom of speech.

The inferior form of hypocrisy is the advocacy of freedom of speech but
attacking the person who is speaking rather than what is spoken. It is no
different from condemning Relativity because Einstein was Jewish. That sort of
attack is only appropriate if jews do it.

=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 23:16:51 PDT 1996
Article: 66204 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Israeli murder of USS Liberty crew
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:17:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

What is most interesting about this is that congressional investigation of this
was quashed by Jacob Javits with the justification that if the truth were told
it would inspire antisemitism.

It is clear that he believed the truth would result in richly deserved
antisemitism, particularly against the antiamerican Jews who were taking their
political marching orders from Tel Aviv.
=====

From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 23:54:39 PDT 1996
Article: 66208 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler & the BATF Hit Squad
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:33:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ek[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:314336 alt.revisionism:66208

On 16 Sep 1996 05:29:57 GMT, [email protected] (pyotr filipivich) wrote:

>[email protected](Tom Potter) writes:

>}In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>}>
>}>Here’s a guy who can’t tell the difference between agents
>}>”opening fire” and agents “returning fire” in the form of
>}>a withering ambush.

>}It would be interesting to know how many rounds
>}the Barney Fife BATF agents took with them to Waco.

>}The videos show the agents firing very rapidly at a
>}building occupied by scores of women and children,
>}and yet NO damage is seen to the cars they are
>}hiding behind.

>}When they ran out of bullets, they called for
>}a truce. There were still no bullet holes in the
>}cars they were hiding behind, although there were
>}thousands of holes in the building occupied by the
>}women and children.

>}Can you imagine government employees,
>}using assault weapons, to shoot thousands
>}of rounds of outlawed bullets, into a church,
>}occupied by scores of women and children?

>}I wonder if Hitler started like this?

> Nope. Hitler didn’t have governmetn backing when he started.
>Well, technically speaking. He was a Sgt in the Army when he was
>assigned to spy on the NSDAP. He bought joined the party (Member #55)
>then bought them a printing press with Army funds, and and got out of
>the Army.

> So he started out a whole lot smaller. Didn’t stop him from
>attempting to seize power in 1923, but …

So you say that the government subsized (encouraged) the NSDAP at the beginning.
Why is it that that sounds so much like the FBI enabling people to bomb the
World Trade Center?

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 01:14:48 PDT 1996
Article: 66215 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer the White Courtesy Phone, Part IV
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 01:14:01 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Kurt Stele ([email protected]) wrote:

>: The internet is the death of the Holocaust.

>Got news for you, Kurt–very few people on the Internet read
>this group. It’s widely considered a hangout for whackos and
>racists. If more people did read the group, though, it wouldn’t
>help your case. I’ve never heard from a single person who
>started out believing the historical facts in the case, came to a.r.
>and changed his mind. The facts are against you, Kurt–face it.
>You have nothing on your side but bigotry and lies.

I started reading this conference years ago and changed my mind on the subject.
Now you have heard of one person who has. Anyone else who comes here and learns
that Zyklon B was really cyanide will certainly have the beginnings of doubt.

And if they pursue the matter in this conference and discover that no holohugger
can allay the doubts it raises but rather leads to more problems it would take a
person with no real intellectual curiousity to simply dismiss a rather
intriguing subject.

After all, what other bit of history short of the very old kind that includes
the intervention of the gods has such a wealth of impossibilities that are
accepted as true by the believers? It is a truly fascinating subject.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 01:14:49 PDT 1996
Article: 66216 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:41:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:07:35 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># According to the Nizkor pictures the undressing room was
># above ground in K II and III.

>No.

I have seen the pictures. If they have been changed, at least have the honesty
to admit they were changed. And at least have the honesty to admit that the
undressing rooms in the aerial shots have shadows. Or explain how underground
rooms have shadows.

># Nizkor also claims the same building was used for gassing at
># K IV and V.

>Huh? Giwer has flipped.

I quote the caption. If it has changed, at least have the honesty to say so.

># So where are you getting this cellar crap?

>Ask other “revisionists”, Matty. No one denies that Kremas II & III
>each had two large underground cellars. They can still be seen there
>today.

It is good to see you are back. Now, as you pointed out, the underground
cellars are meaningless as only one of the five rooms in them was supposed to be
a gas chamber. It was good of you to finally get around to that.

Or are you now going to pretend you never posted an amount of ZB based upon the
entire building size?

Or are you now going to claim otherwise?

Remember that the Chamber of Cards has collapsed, along with the induction
columns and the pretensions of a ventilation system.

># You mean like the people who use the entire size of the LK for gas
># estimates and then claim there were two rooms in it when in fact there
># were five?

>Matty, the gas chamber was indeed partitioned into two rooms, but
>at first all of it was used. I made the calculation for the largest
>gassing facility – that is, for the chamber before it was
>partitioned.

Five rooms. The drawing is on Nizkor. It includes an urn room for the ashes.
But you know that.

># Let me guess? You want to major in math when you get to college.

>Go to bed, Matty.

I have. With real women, nerd.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 01:14:50 PDT 1996
Article: 66221 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:14:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3226edad.3904[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <519o[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 09:06:12 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 19:08:43 -0300, Keith Morrison
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>>> >: Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this
>>>> >: holocaust of yours?
>>>>
>>>> >Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this Dresden
>>>> >firestorm of yours?
>>>>
>>>> I have posted it. Look it up.
>>
>>>No you didn’t. You mentioned some clearly forged piece of alledged film
>>>supposedly taken from airplanes with no evidence of what it is they might
>>>be doing and where or when.
>>
>> It has been posted. Look it up, braindead holohugger.

> No physical evidence for a firestorm caused by Allied bombing was
>posted, only a coincidence. The only evidence for the firestorm (as
>opposed to a very large fire like the Chicago or London fires) was
>hysterical eyewitness testimony. Matt Giwer is lying. Again. That’s the
>best he can do.

Fine with me. There is no physical evidence of any of them. They are all
fantasies of hysterical people. So who gives a damn?

So what is your problem? We agree gassing was hysterical testimony. Why are
you posting?

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:40 PDT 1996
Article: 66226 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here’s the directions you wanted..
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:27:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:34:27 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[To Joel Rosenberg]

># Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill
># you for even coming close.

>Another death threat from Giwer.

How can a statement of fact about what another person will do be a threat from
me?

But please continue to cry wolf. Keep crying wolf.

># You fucking jew traitor.
>#
># You murdering Jews are all alike and you are not expected to
># be any different.
>#
># Should lightening strike my family JEWS will be named because
># of you. And of course I will have you on my better dead list.
># And I am good at it.

>You’re good at being a rabid dog.

And This contradicts any idea that I made a threat.

># You are advised to spend your time playing bodyguard to my family.
>#
># That is the only way you have to save yourself.

>This is, clear and cut, a death threat. I’m going to notify the
>FBI and the Police about this.

Please do and be certain to point out that it was in resopnse to another threat
of harrassment by someone other than Ken McVay.

And give them my best. He was a gentleman about it. Not McVay.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:40 PDT 1996
Article: 66227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s rave review for nixing Zundel’s air time.
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 03:25:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 03:15:19 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>> The fact is, revisionism in America -is- censored, but instead of being
>> done by the government it is done by the media. Censorship is censorship,
>> whether done by the government or by media bosses.

> It might be time to break this news to you. One of the first acts of the
>1st Congress was to prose 12 amendments to the Constitution. The third was
>passed by the states and remains part of the Constitution of the United States as
>the “1st Amendment.” Among the rights guaranteed by that Amendment is one
>generally known as “freedom of the press.” This gives the press — i.e. the media
>– the right to print what they want. It also, by implication, aloows them not to
>print what they do not want to print.

> If you disapprove of what the prints or wish it to print something else
>your remedy is a simple one: start your own newspaper, establish your own
>publishing house, or buy yourself a radio or television station. This is, after all,
>the process by which the current “media bosses” obtained their ownership.

> Go ahead. Be an American. Enter the marketplace of ideas.

And since at the time anyone could buy a press and print the news and since
today anyone can produce a website.

It was also true in the old days that one could break down the doors and destroy
the printng press.

It is no different these days to harrass service providers to the same effect as
silencing the opposition. It is a very, very nasty battle that is shaping up
here.

On one hand we have the people who are trying get out a mesage and on the other
we have those trying to prohibit the message.

It is only the holohuggers attempting to stop the opposition.

And of course they side with the Israeli murderers of Americans as in the USS
Liberty.

Listen up all you scum out there, including US citizen McVay. You are
holohugging animals, traitors, save for the absense of a declared war you are
saved from the charge of treason.

But it is clear that there are Jews who will abandon their citizenship for
Israel as in the Pollard case.

It is also clear that there are people who will defend Pollard solely because
they put being Jewish ahead of being American. One way or another those
traitors took an oath to the US. They have put another country ahead of the US.

May all members of AIPAC, the ADL and the JDL meet the sharks in the Gulf before
they arrive at their deportation site. Not one of thier membership deserves to
be considered American.

If they claim citizenship they are liars. Their loyalies are not to the US.

May they learn to endure the hell they have created for themselves and are
justly condemned to for violating their oath upon becoming American citizens.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:41 PDT 1996
Article: 66228 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Koresh the Killer
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:30:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.guns:314372 alt.revisionism:66228

On 15 Sep 1996 22:40:21 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Light) wrote:

>Norman Nithman ([email protected]) wrote:
>: In article <[email protected]>,
>: John Moreno wrote:
>: >
>: >No, but IF it was DEFENSIVE ACTION, then it’s a whole new ball game and
>: >you should admit it. I don’t care WHO it is attacking, if they don’t
>: >have a legal and moral right to be doing so, shooting them is
>: >self-defense. So IF that’s the case then YES he DID kill, but it was the
>: >RIGHT thing to do. Also IF somebody starts a fire fight, THEN you have
>: >NO obligation to stop it, especially by SURRENDERING to people who
>: >started shooting at you unjustly.
>: >

>: But the Davidians started shooting first.

>You’re sure of that? The evidence was “lost” while in FBI custody.

Yes, a full sized steel door was lost. Amazing.

Want to survey a random ten million people and ask them if they have ever lost a
door?

“Yeah, I did once. I must have fallen out of my pocket.”

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:42 PDT 1996
Article: 66229 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:44:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <513av[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:57:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

># There is nothing contradictory or irregular about the
># bombing of Dresden, nor is there a case to be made against
># Dresden’s occurrence.

>No, no, kurtzi. For the alleged bombing of Dresden, we have

>1) Wildly differing estimates for the numbers of victims
> (from 25,000 to 500,000).

>2) Absurd “testimonies” (people “melting into puddles of
> melted flesh”, or turning into “a fine layer of ash”
> although the fire didn’t touch them, etc).

And of course the physical evidence of Dresden does not require one bit of
personal testimony. However, for the steaming alive stories that is all there
is to support the yiddish holocaust.

>So, according to “revisionist logic”, there was no bombing of
>Dresden. Why don’t you just give it up?

No one cares about whether or not Dresden occurs. No one is called a
Churchillian for denying Dresden. It is no more important than whether or not
Jews were gassed.

Get that through your little skull.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:43 PDT 1996
Article: 66238 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:30:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:41:33 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes to me:

># Gee, and I thought you had been admitted to grad school.

>Yes, that was a few years ago. When you were still employed,
>actually.

Putting money away to retire early, kid.

># Or maybe you are the criminal.

>Get a job, stupid punk.

Why would I want a job? What would I do with it?

But of course, you have no interest in doing what you want in life. You are
still stuck with doing what your boss wants you to do if you want to keep your
job.

You are not free. I am.

You do not want freedom. I have it.

I own my own life. You don’t have jack.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 03:36:43 PDT 1996
Article: 66246 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NOMINATION: Tom Moran for KOTM
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 15 Sep 1996 18:34:42 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:

>>Kurt Stele ([email protected]) wrote:
>>: [email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:

>>Tommy’s “Desert Ostrich” crap deleted.

>>: >Nobody on a.r. has been able to determine what this has to do with
>>: >the Holocaust or revisionism; perhaps the denizens of a.u.k. can
>>: >help. Meanwhile, I invite other a.r. regulars to post your favorite
>>: >Moranisms in support of this nomination. Support our boy!
>>:
>>: I find it relevant.

>>That doesn’t count, Kurt. You also believe that JOOS are controlling
>>your life. What we need, see, is somebody who finds it relevant and
>>yet isn’t a flake.

>Jews dominate the media, which consequently gives them great influence
>into nearly every sphere of society.

>Oh, and views Jews don’t like get censored.

>But this is pretty elementary stuff, Bill.

Simply consider how many TV shows and news articles there have been on the
“historicity” of Jesus as compared to the “historicity” of Moses.

How about the documentaries on the growth of the Christian religion as compared
to those on the conversion of eastern Europeans/Asiatics to Talmudism?

It is rather more amazing what does not exist than what does exist. For all
that has been subject to critical analysis, one might suppose that jews are an
imaginary people whose existence is preserved as a popular fantasy like the
Easter Bunny.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 08:56:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66269 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: White MEN Created Everything
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:01:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 16 Sep 1996 05:10:09 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Allan Matthews ([email protected]) wrote:
>: In article , [email protected] (Bryan Cowan) wrote:
>: >In article ,
>: >[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>:
>: >> > > 19. monotheism
>: >Jews (gasp!) 😉
>:
>: No, it was the Egyptians (King Tut’s dad)

>Ahknaten, the originators of Zoroastrianism, and the Jews came up
>with monotheism independently, and more or less comtemporaneously.
>The Egyptians, however, abandoned it almost at once.

At least you admit that Abraham and Moses were not monotheists, noting that
Zoroaster and the Babylonian captivity were coincident within historic error.

But the presumption of independence is not established as the exact dates of its
starting in each place within 100 years and the places where it started are so
relatively close together, and considering that for the Hebrews it started in
Babylon next door to Zoroastranianism in what is modern Iran.

Any idea of independence in monotheism is rather absurd. Considering that in
one case the originator at least has a name and in the other it was introduced
by a 1984 technique of rewritting history, it is most likely that it had a
single origin in Iraq and was copied during the captivity.

And of course there was the political problem for those in captivity. Having
been out of power for so many years they had to do something to regain power.
As Israel was a theocracy the only grounds for political power were religious.

So it behooved those returning from captivity to have an alternative religious
platform else they would have to be subborinate to the power of those who had
remained behind. The supremacy of Yahweh God was given a minor twist to his
being the only god. It is the kind of trivial practical difference that makes
for great political battles. Nothing would change in the ceremonies,
obligations and the like. It was very like combining seven federal programs
into one program.

For example, when Moses prayed to Astarte for water and she granted it and
Yahweh punished Moses for doubting his consort, it was only necessary to drop
Astarte from the story. That way Yahweh took on the aspect of the nurturing
earth mother in addition to the ultimate judge.

Yahweh simply approved the bronze serpent rather Moses simply invoking the wise
god of Eden to save the people in the desert.

It is really very easy to understand.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 08:56:33 PDT 1996
Article: 66284 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ourobouros’ sample definition of the White race
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:19:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 15 Sep 1996 11:56:19 -0700, Ourobouros wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…
>>
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Ourobouros writes:
>>> NOTE!!! NOTE!!! NOTE!!! NOTE!!! NOTE!!! NOTE!!! NOTE!!!
>>>
>>> For those that like to be continuously ignorant, like Mr. “Brown”, this
>>> post will no doubt be non-existent. Please watch in future months how
>>> people like, Mr. “Brown” will claim that I and my colleagues have never
>>> defined the White race. Please also watch how they will try and label
>>> this as an ad hominem attack to divert the topic, which they claim they
>>> never do.
>>
>>Oh, there’s been no end of definitions of “white”. It’s just that these
>>definitions are vague and contradictionary. The latter because one racist’s
>>definition of “white” excludes other racists who concider themself to be
>>”white”.
>>
>Not to so many of you anti-racists. It is a recurring theme that we have
>given no definition of the White race.

Is it not amusing the every race but caucasian can be defined?

Remember the seven blind men describing and elephant? You give a definition of
seven characteristics of caucasian and then they take each of the seven
separately and claim it is like one of the other races. Their entire exercise
is quite amusing.

They pretend not to have a grasp of what it is like when all seven are taken
together. As any rational person does, it would appear they have a motive.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 08:56:34 PDT 1996
Article: 66301 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: WW I and US involvement
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:18:49 GMT
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>——- Forwarded Message Follows ——-
>Subject: Jewish Defector Speaks
>Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 22:20:00 MDT
>From: [email protected] (Horatius Cocles)
>To: [email protected]
>Organization: NileNet Limited
>
>A JEWISH DEFECTOR WARNS AMERICA:
>Benjamin Freedman Speaks
>
>by Benjamin H. Freedman
>
>Introductory Note
>
>Benjamin H. Freedman was one of the most intriguing and amazing
>individuals of the 20th century. Mr. Freedman, born in 1890, was a
>successful Jewish businessman of New York City who was at one time
>the principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company. He broke with
>organized Jewry after the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945, and spent
>the remainder of his life and the great preponderance of his considerable
>fortune, at least 2.5 million dollars, exposing the Jewish tyranny which
>has enveloped the United States.
>
>Mr. Freedman knew what he was talking about because he had been an
>insider at the highest levels of Jewish organizations and Jewish
>machinations to gain power over our nation. Mr. Freedman was
>personally acquainted with Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermyer,
>Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, and John F.
>Kennedy, and many more movers and shakers of our times.
>
>This speech was given before a patriotic audience in 1961 at the Willard
>Hotel in Washington, D.C., on behalf of Conde McGinley’s patriotic
>newspaper of that time, Common Sense. Though in some minor ways
>this wide-ranging and extemporaneous speech has become dated, Mr.
>Freedman’s essential message to us — his warning to the West — is more
>urgent than ever before. — K.A.S.
>
>*
>
>HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, the Zionists and their co-religionists
>have complete control of our government. For many reasons, too many
>and too complex to go into here at this time, the Zionists and their co-
>religionists rule these United States as though they were the absolute
>monarchs of this country. Now you may say that is a very broad
>statement, but let me show you what happened while we were all asleep.
>
>What happened? World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. There
>are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was
>waged on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other
>side by Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.
>
>Within two years Germany had won that war: not only won it nominally,
>but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to
>the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean.
>
>Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, with one
>week’s food supply — and after that, starvation. At that time, the French
>army had mutinied. They had lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth
>in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army was
>
>defecting, they were picking up their toys and going home, they didn’t
>want to play war anymore, they didn’t like the Tsar. And the Italian army
>had collapsed.
>
>Not a shot had been fired on German soil. Not one enemy soldier had
>crossed the border into Germany. And yet, Germany was offering
>England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what
>the lawyers call a status quo ante basis. That means: “Let’s call the war
>off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.” England, in
>the summer of 1916 was considering that — seriously. They had no
>choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was
>magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being
>totally defeated.
>
>While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the
>Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and — I
>am going to be brief because it’s a long story, but I have all the
>documents to prove any statement that I make — they said: “Look here.
>You can yet win this war. You don’t have to give up. You don’t have to
>accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany. You can
>win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.”
>
>The United States was not in the war at that time. We were fresh; we
>were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They told England: “We
>will guarantee to bring the United States into the war as your ally, to
>fight with you on your side, if you will promise us Palestine after you
>win the war.”
>
>In other words, they made this deal: “We will get the United States into
>this war as your ally. The price you must pay is Palestine after you have
>won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”
>Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the
>United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason
>whatsoever. It’s absolutely absurd that Great Britain, that never had any
>connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine
>should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the
>United States into the war.
>
>However, they did make that promise, in October of 1916. And shortly
>after that — I don’t know how many here remember it — the United
>States, which was almost totally pro-German, entered the war as Britain’s
>ally.
>
>I say that the United States was almost totally pro-German because the
>newspapers here were controlled by Jews, the bankers were Jews, all the
>media of mass communications in this country were controlled by Jews;
>and they, the Jews, were pro-German. They were pro-German because
>many of them had come from Germany, and also they wanted to see
>Germany lick the Tsar. The Jews didn’t like the Tsar, and they didn’t
>want Russia to win this war. These German-Jew bankers, like Kuhn Loeb
>and the other big banking firms in the United States refused to finance
>France or England to the extent of one dollar. They stood aside and they
>said: “As long as France and England are tied up with Russia, not one
>cent!” But they poured money into Germany, they fought beside
>Germany against Russia, trying to lick the Tsarist regime.
>
>Now those same Jews, when they saw the possibility of getting Palestine,
>went to England and they made this deal. At that time, everything
>changed, like a traffic light that changes from red to green. Where the
>newspapers had been all pro-German, where they’d been telling the
>people of the difficulties that Germany was having fighting Great Britain
>commercially and in other respects, all of a sudden the Germans were no
>good. They were villains. They were Huns. They were shooting Red
>Cross nurses. They were cutting off babies’ hands. They were no good.
>Shortly after that, Mr. Wilson declared war on Germany.
>
>The Zionists in London had sent cables to the United States, to Justice
>Brandeis, saying “Go to work on President Wilson. We’re getting from
>England what we want. Now you go to work on President Wilson and get
>the United States into the war.” That’s how the United States got into the
>war. We had no more interest in it; we had no more right to be in it than
>we have to be on the moon tonight instead of in this room. There was
>absolutely no reason for World War I to be our war. We were railroaded
>into — if I can be vulgar, we were suckered into — that war merely so that
>the Zionists of the world could obtain Palestine. That is something that
>the people of the United States have never been told. They never knew
>why we went into World War I.
>
>After we got into the war, the Zionists went to Great Britain and they
>said: “Well, we performed our part of the agreement. Let’s have
>something in writing that shows that you are going to keep your bargain
>and give us Palestine after you win the war.” They didn’t know whether
>the war would last another year or another ten years. So they started to
>work out a receipt. The receipt took the form of a letter, which was
>worded in very cryptic language so that the world at large wouldn’t know
>what it was all about. And that was called the Balfour Declaration.
>
>The Balfour Declaration was merely Great Britain’s promise to pay the
>Zionists what they had agreed upon as a consideration for getting the
>United States into the war. So this great Balfour Declaration, that you
>hear so much about, is just as phony as a three dollar bill. I don’t think I
>could make it more emphatic than that.
>
>That is where all the trouble started. The United States got in the war.
>The United States crushed Germany. You know what happened. When
>the war ended, and the Germans went to Paris for the Paris Peace
>Conference in 1919, there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation
>representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch. I was there: I ought to
>know. Now what happened?
>
>The Jews at that peace conference, when they were cutting up Germany
>and parceling out Europe to all these nations who claimed a right to a
>certain part of European territory, said, “How about Palestine for us?”
>And they produced, for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans,
>this Balfour Declaration. So the Germans, for the first time realized, “Oh,
>so that was the game! That’s why the United States came into the war.”
>The Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they
>suffered the terrific reparations that were slapped onto them, because the
>Zionists wanted Palestine and were determined to get it at any cost.
>
>That brings us to another very interesting point. When the Germans
>realized this, they naturally resented it. Up to that time, the Jews had
>never been better off in any country in the world than they had been in
>Germany. You had Mr. Rathenau there, who was maybe 100 times as
>important in industry and finance as is Bernard Baruch in this country.
>You had Mr. Balin, who owned the two big steamship lines, the North
>German Lloyd’s and the Hamburg-American Lines. You had Mr.
>Bleichroder, who was the banker for the Hohenzollern family. You had
>the Warburgs in Hamburg, who were the big merchant bankers — the
>biggest in the world. The Jews were doing very well in Germany. No
>
>question about that. The Germans felt: “Well, that was quite a sellout.”
>
>It was a sellout that might be compared to this hypothetical situation:
>Suppose the United States was at war with the Soviet Union. And we
>were winning. And we told the Soviet Union: “Well, let’s quit. We offer
>you peace terms. Let’s forget the whole thing.” And all of a sudden Red
>China came into the war as an ally of the Soviet Union. And throwing
>them into the war brought about our defeat. A crushing defeat, with
>reparations the likes of which man’s imagination cannot encompass.
>
>Imagine, then, after that defeat, if we found out that it was the Chinese in
>this country, our Chinese citizens, who all the time we had thought were
>loyal citizens working with us, were selling us out to the Soviet Union
>and that it was through them that Red China was brought into the war
>against us. How would we feel, then, in the United States against
>Chinese? I don’t think that one of them would dare show his face on any
>street. There wouldn’t be enough convenient lampposts to take care of
>them. Imagine how we would feel.
>
>Well, that’s how the Germans felt towards these Jews. They’d been so
>nice to them: from 1905 on, when the first Communist revolution in
>Russia failed, and the Jews had to scramble out of Russia, they all went
>to Germany. And Germany gave them refuge. And they were treated
>very nicely. And here they had sold Germany down the river for no
>reason at all other than the fact that they wanted Palestine as a so-called
>”Jewish commonwealth.”
>
>Now Nahum Sokolow, and all the great leaders and great names that you
>read about in connection with Zionism today, in 1919, 1920, 1921, 1922,
>and 1923 wrote in all their papers — and the press was filled with their
>statements — that the feeling against the Jews in Germany is due to the
>fact that they realized that this great defeat was brought about by Jewish
>intercession in bringing the United States into the war. The Jews
>themselves admitted that.
>
>It wasn’t that the Germans in 1919 discovered that a glass of Jewish
>blood tasted better than Coca-Cola or Muenschner Beer. There was no
>religious feeling. There was no sentiment against those people merely on
>account of their religious belief. It was all political. It was economic. It
>was anything but religious. Nobody cared in Germany whether a Jew
>went home and pulled down the shades and said “Shema’ Yisroel” or
>”Our Father.” Nobody cared in Germany any more than they do in the
>United States. Now this feeling that developed later in Germany was due
>to one thing: the Germans held the Jews responsible for their crushing
>defeat.
>
>And World War I had been started against Germany for no reason for
>which Germany was responsible. They were guilty of nothing. Only of
>being successful. They built up a big navy. They built up world trade.
>You must remember that Germany at the time of the French Revolution
>consisted of 300 small city-states, principalities, dukedoms, and so forth.
>Three hundred separate little political entities. And between that time,
>between the times of Napoleon and Bismarck, they were consolidated
>into one state. And within 50 years they became one of the world’s great
>powers. Their navy was rivaling Great Britain’s, they were doing
>business all over the world, they could undersell anybody, they could
>make better products. What happened as a result of that?
>
>There was a conspiracy between England, France, and Russia to slap
>down Germany. There isn’t one historian in the world who can find a
>valid reason why those three countries decided to wipe Germany off the
>map politically.
>
>When Germany realized that the Jews were responsible for her defeat,
>they naturally resented it. But not a hair on the head of any Jew was
>harmed. Not a single hair. Professor Tansill, of Georgetown University,
>who had access to all the secret papers of the State Department, wrote in
>his book, and quoted from a State Department document written by
>Hugo Schoenfelt, a Jew whom Cordell Hull sent to Europe in 1933 to
>investigate the so-called camps of political prisoners, who wrote back
>that he found them in very fine condition. They were in excellent shape,
>with everybody treated well. And they were filled with Communists.
>Well, a lot of them were Jews, because the Jews happened to comprise
>about 98 per cent of the Communists in Europe at that time. And there
>were some priests there, and ministers, and labor leaders, and Masons,
>and others who had international affiliations.
>
>Some background is in order: In 1918-1919 the Communists took over
>Bavaria for a few days. Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht and a
>group of other Jews took over the government for three days. In fact,
>when the Kaiser ended the war he fled to Holland because he thought the
>Communists were going to take over Germany as they did Russia and
>that he was going to meet the same fate as the Tsar. So he fled to Holland
>for safety, for security. After the Communist threat in Germany was
>quashed, the Jews were still working, trying to get back into their former
>
>status, and the Germans fought them in every way they could without
>hurting a single hair on anyone’s head.
>
>They fought them the same way that, in this country, the Prohibitionists
>fought anyone who was interested in liquor. They didn’t fight one
>another with pistols. Well, that’s the way they were fighting the Jews in
>Germany. And at that time, mind you, there were 80 to 90 million
>Germans, and there were only 460,000 Jews. About one half of one per
>cent of the population of Germany were Jews. And yet they controlled all
>the press, and they controlled most of the economy because they had
>come in with cheap money when the mark was devalued and bought up
>practically everything.
>
>The Jews tried to keep a lid on this fact. They didn’t want the world to
>really understand that they had sold out Germany, and that the Germans
>resented that.
>
>The Germans took appropriate action against the Jews. They, shall I say,
>discriminated against them wherever they could. They shunned them.
>The same way that we would shun the Chinese, or the Negroes, or the
>Catholics, or anyone in this country who had sold us out to an enemy and
>brought about our defeat.
>
>After a while, the Jews of the world called a meeting in Amsterdam.
>Jews from every country in the world attended this meeting in July 1933.
>And they said to Germany: “You fire Hitler, and you put every Jew back
>into his former position, whether he was a Communist or no matter what
>he was. You can’t treat us that way. And we, the Jews of the world, are
>serving an ultimatum upon you.” You can imagine what the Germans
>told them. So what did the Jews do?
>
>In 1933, when Germany refused to surrender to the world conference of
>Jews in Amsterdam, the conference broke up, and Mr. Samuel
>Untermyer, who was the head of the American delegation and the
>president of the whole conference, came to the United States and went
>from the steamer to the studios of the Columbia Broadcasting System
>and made a radio broadcast throughout the United States in which he in
>effect said, “The Jews of the world now declare a Holy War against
>Germany. We are now engaged in a sacred conflict against the Germans.
>And we are going to starve them into surrender. We are going to use a
>world-wide boycott against them. That will destroy them because they
>are dependent upon their export business.”
>
>And it is a fact that two thirds of Germany’s food supply had to be
>imported, and it could only be imported with the proceeds of what they
>exported. So if Germany could not export, two thirds of Germany’s
>population would have to starve. There was just not enough food for
>more than one third of the population. Now in this declaration, which I
>have here, and which was printed in the New York Times on August 7,
>1933, Mr. Samuel Untermyer boldly stated that “this economic boycott is
>our means of self-defense. President Roosevelt has advocated its use in
>the National Recovery Administration,” which some of you may
>remember, where everybody was to be boycotted unless he followed the
>rules laid down by the New Deal, and which was declared
>unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of that time. Nevertheless, the
>Jews of the world declared a boycott against Germany, and it was so
>effective that you couldn’t find one thing in any store anywhere in the
>world with the words “made in Germany” on it.
>
>In fact, an executive of the Woolworth Company told me that they had to
>dump millions of dollars worth of crockery and dishes into the river; that
>their stores were boycotted if anyone came in and found a dish marked
>”made in Germany,” they were picketed with signs saying “Hitler,”
>”murderer,” and so forth, something like these sit-ins that are taking
>place in the South. At a store belonging to the R. H. Macy chain, which
>was controlled by a family called Strauss who also happen to be Jews, a
>woman found stockings there which came from Chemnitz, marked
>”made in Germany.” Well, they were cotton stockings and they may
>have been there 20 years, since I’ve been observing women’s legs for
>many years and it’s been a long time since I’ve seen any cotton stockings
>on them. I saw Macy’s boycotted, with hundreds of people walking
>around with signs saying “murderers,” “Hitlerites,” and so forth. Now up
>to that time, not one hair on the head of any Jew had been hurt in
>Germany. There was no suffering, there was no starvation, there was no
>murder, there was nothing.
>
>Naturally, the Germans said, “Who are these people to declare a boycott
>against us and throw all our people out of work, and make our industries
>come to a standstill? Who are they to do that to us?” They naturally
>resented it. Certainly they painted swastikas on stores owned by Jews.
>Why should a German go in and give his money to a storekeeper who
>was part of a boycott that was going to starve Germany into surrendering
>to the Jews of the world, who were going to dictate who their premier or
>chancellor was to be? Well, it was ridiculous.
>
>The boycott continued for some time, but it wasn’t until 1938, when a
>young Jew from Poland walked into the German embassy in Paris and
>shot a German official, that the Germans really started to get rough with
>the Jews in Germany. And you found them then breaking windows and
>having street fights and so forth.
>
>Now I don’t like to use the word “anti-Semitism” because it’s
>meaningless, but it means something to you still, so I’ll have to use it.
>The only reason that there was any feeling in Germany against Jews was
>that they were responsible for World War I and for this world-wide
>boycott. Ultimately they were also responsible for World War II, because
>after this thing got out of hand, it was absolutely necessary for the Jews
>and Germany to lock horns in a war to see which one was going to
>survive.
>
>In the meanwhile, I had lived in Germany, and I knew that the Germans
>had decided that Europe is going to be Christian or Communist: there is
>no in between. And the Germans decided they were going to keep it
>Christian if possible. And they started to re-arm.
>
>In November 1933 the United States recognized the Soviet Union. The
>Soviet Union was becoming very powerful, and Germany realized that
>”Our turn was going to come soon, unless we are strong.” The same as
>we in this country are saying today, “Our turn is going to come soon,
>unless we are strong.” Our government is spending 83 or 84 billion
>dollars for defense. Defense against whom? Defense against 40,000 little
>Jews in Moscow that took over Russia, and then, in their devious ways,
>took over control of many other countries of the world.
>
>
>For this country now to be on the verge of a Third World War, from
>which we cannot emerge a victor, is something that staggers my
>imagination. I know that nuclear bombs are measured in terms of
>megatons. A megaton is a term used to describe one million tons of TNT.
>Our nuclear bombs had a capacity of 10 megatons, or 10 million tons of
>TNT, when they were first developed. Now, the nuclear bombs that are
>being developed have a capacity of 200 megatons, and God knows how
>many megatons the nuclear bombs of the Soviet Union have.
>
>What do we face now? If we trigger a world war that may develop into a
>nuclear war, humanity is finished. Why might such a war take place? It
>will take place as the curtain goes up on Act 3: Act 1 was World War I,
>Act 2 was World War II, Act 3 is going to be World War III. The Jews of
>the world, the Zionists and their co-religionists everywhere, are
>determined that they are going to again use the United States to help
>them permanently retain Palestine as their foothold for their world
>government. That is just as true as I am standing here. Not alone have I
>read it, but many here have also read it, and it is known all over the
>world.
>
>What are we going to do? The life you save may be your son’s. Your
>boys may be on their way to that war tonight; and you don’t know it any
>more than you knew that in 1916 in London the Zionists made a deal
>with the British War Cabinet to send your sons to war in Europe. Did
>you know it at that time? Not a person in the United States knew it. You
>weren’t permitted to know it. Who knew it? President Wilson knew it.
>Colonel House knew it. Other insiders knew it.
>
>Did I know it? I had a pretty good idea of what was going on: I was
>liaison to Henry Morgenthau, Sr., in the 1912 campaign when President
>Wilson was elected, and there was talk around the office there. I was
>”confidential man” to Henry Morgenthau, Sr., who was chairman of the
>finance committee, and I was liaison between him and Rollo Wells, the
>treasurer. So I sat in these meetings with President Wilson at the head of
>the table, and all the others, and I heard them drum into President
>Wilson’s brain the graduated income tax and what has become the
>Federal Reserve, and I heard them indoctrinate him with the Zionist
>movement. Justice Brandeis and President Wilson were just as close as
>the two fingers on this hand. President Woodrow Wilson was just as
>incompetent when it came to determining what was going on as a
>newborn baby. That is how they got us into World War I, while we all
>slept. They sent our boys over there to be slaughtered. For what? So the
>Jews can have Palestine as their “commonwealth.” They’ve fooled you so
>much that you don’t know whether you’re coming or going.
>
>Now any judge, when he charges a jury, says, “Gentlemen, any witness
>who you find has told a single lie, you can disregard all his testimony.” I
>don’t know what state you come from, but in New York state that is the
>way a judge addresses a jury. If that witness told one lie, disregard his
>testimony.
>
>What are the facts about the Jews? (I call them Jews to you, because they
>are known as Jews. I don’t call them Jews myself. I refer to them as so-
>called Jews, because I know what they are.) The eastern European Jews,
>who form 92 per cent of the world’s population of those people who call
>themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe
>who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even
>the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a
>large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did
>not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom
>was the biggest country in all Europe — so big and so powerful that when
>the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them
>40,000 soldiers. That’s how big and powerful they were.
>
>They were phallic worshippers, which is filthy and I do not want to go
>into the details of that now. But that was their religion, as it was also the
>religion of many other pagans and barbarians elsewhere in the world.
>The Khazar king became so disgusted with the degeneracy of his
>kingdom that he decided to adopt a so-called monotheistic faith — either
>Christianity, Islam, or what is known today as Judaism, which is really
>Talmudism. By spinning a top, and calling out “eeny, meeny, miney,
>moe,” he picked out so-called Judaism. And that became the state
>religion. He sent down to the Talmudic schools of Pumbedita and Sura
>and brought up thousands of rabbis, and opened up synagogues and
>schools, and his people became what we call Jews. There wasn’t one of
>them who had an ancestor who ever put a toe in the Holy Land. Not only
>in Old Testament history, but back to the beginning of time. Not one of
>them!
>
>And yet they come to the Christians and ask us to support their armed
>insurrections in Palestine by saying, “You want to help repatriate God’s
>Chosen People to their Promised Land, their ancestral home, don’t you?
>It’s your Christian duty. We gave you one of our boys as your Lord and
>Savior. You now go to church on Sunday, and you kneel and you
>worship a Jew, and we’re Jews.” But they are pagan Khazars who were
>converted just the same as the Irish were converted. It is as ridiculous to
>call them “people of the Holy Land,” as it would be to call the 54 million
>Chinese Moslems “Arabs.”
>
>Mohammed only died in 620 A.D., and since then 54 million Chinese
>have accepted Islam as their religious belief. Now imagine, in China,
>2,000 miles away from Arabia, from Mecca and Mohammed’s birthplace.
>Imagine if the 54 million Chinese decided to call themselves “Arabs.”
>You would say they were lunatics. Anyone who believes that those 54
>million Chinese are Arabs must be crazy. All they did was adopt as a
>religious faith a belief that had its origin in Mecca, in Arabia. The same
>as the Irish. When the Irish became Christians, nobody dumped them in
>the ocean and imported to the Holy Land a new crop of inhabitants. They
>hadn’t become a different people. They were the same people, but they
>had accepted Christianity as a religious faith.
>
>These Khazars, these pagans, these Asiatics, these Turko-Finns, were a
>Mongoloid race who were forced out of Asia into eastern Europe.
>Because their king took the Talmudic faith, they had no choice in the
>matter. Just the same as in Spain: If the king was Catholic, everybody
>had to be a Catholic. If not, you had to get out of Spain. So the Khazars
>became what we call today Jews.
>
>Now imagine how silly it was for the great Christian countries of the
>world to say, “We’re going to use our power and prestige to repatriate
>God’s Chosen People to their ancestral homeland, their Promised Land.”
>Could there be a bigger lie than that? Because they control the
>newspapers, the magazines, the radio, the television, the book publishing
>business, and because they have the ministers in the pulpit and the
>politicians on the soapboxes talking the same language, it is not too
>surprising that you believe that lie. You’d believe black is white if you
>
>heard it often enough. You wouldn’t call black black anymore — you’d
>start to call black white. And nobody could blame you.
>
>That is one of the great lies of history. It is the foundation of all the
>misery that has befallen the world.
>
>Do you know what Jews do on the Day of Atonement, that you think is
>so sacred to them? I was one of them. This is not hearsay. I’m not here to
>be a rabble-rouser. I’m here to give you facts. When, on the Day of
>Atonement, you walk into a synagogue, you stand up for the very first
>prayer that you recite. It is the only prayer for which you stand. You
>repeat three times a short prayer called the Kol Nidre.
>
>In that prayer, you enter into an agreement with God Almighty that any
>oath, vow, or pledge that you may make during the next twelve months
>shall be null and void. The oath shall not be an oath; the vow shall not be
>a vow; the pledge shall not be a pledge. They shall have no force or
>effect. And further, the Talmud teaches that whenever you take an oath,
>vow, or pledge, you are to remember the Kol Nidre prayer that you
>recited on the Day of Atonement, and you are exempted from fulfilling
>them. How much can you depend on their loyalty? You can depend upon
>their loyalty as much as the Germans depended upon it in 1916.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 08:56:35 PDT 1996
Article: 66310 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. “Stone?”
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:15:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-02.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43559 alt.revisionism:66310

On 8 Sep 1996 12:11:35 -0700, Ourobouros wrote:

>>”Stone’s” assumption that his point 4 is correct is the crux of his
>>argument. Yet he seems oddly reluctant to demonstrate that point 4 is
>>supported by any historian of the Holocaust. This is the basic challenge
>>he was initially presented with by Ken McVay, and is the challenge he has
>>yet to respond with anything other than diversionary tactics.
>>
>Considering the amount of “true” historians (anti-revisionists) on
>alt.revisionism, I shouldn’t have to cite anything. One of them should
>stand up and tell us where the majority of these “victims” were killed.

>Why is this request so difficult?

Because the never make an assertion first. They want other to make it
so they can be in the attack mode.

And they were so “surprised” when I suggested revisionists always be
in the attack mode.

They simply will not be the first to speak for themselves. Remember
how long it took me to get Keren to make his one and only calculation?
And then remember he shot himself in the foot a week later by
condemning the room size he used when I used it?

Holohuggers have not intention of being reasonable in this matter. It
is their sole purpose to attempt to annoy people enough to run them
off of the conference and nothing else.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 08:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 66313 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews: Most Racist of Peoples
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 04:34:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51b70p$f[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:26:28 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

> The Jews become so arrogant to the host society that they think
>they can say whatever they want, but in the end, they leave a record.
>In the case of the United States now playing the host, they have
>committed themselves to thousands of columns, letters to the editors,
>full, quarter and half page ads that tells it all.

> ‘We the Jews are the most brilliant and benevolent in the whole
>world. Arabs, Catholics, Muslims, well, everyone else is scum’.

What is most amazing is that they were able to take over Hollywood in hardly 20
years and then contintue to exclude everyone else. Not quite everyone but read
the credits from 30 years ago and now.

There is no question that EITHER there is conspiracy to promost Jews or there is
a racial abilitity to entertain like Stepan Fechit had.

There is a real and serious dirth of rational movies these days. But do not let
me tell you what to think or believe. You have cable. Make notes on the
credits and the year of the film.

Only an ignorant fool would claim that Jews do not control Hollywood and thus
the image of the US to itself and the world.

But clearly the image of Hollywood is not that of the US but rather it is the
image of Jews.

Do your best to kill the idea that Hollywood is an image of America.

As was said in the condemnation of the Godfather, it is the image of the Jews in
America.

The problem of course is that these images aer created by professonal Jews. The
poor basterd next door doesn’t know a thing about this yet he will suffer
because of claims he can not rebut.

Yes, it sucks,but then Jews want it to suck the holocast.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:10:47 PDT 1996
Article: 66333 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: no response?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 02:41:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

In the last two days I have posted twenty or so messages contrary to the
holocaust myth and not one response from he holohuggers.

It is good that the holohuggers have remained silent on the matter. They would
embarrass themselves were they to object.
=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:10:47 PDT 1996
Article: 66335 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 02:37:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50c[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50h0jn$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <4SEP199607010[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:53:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:51:09 -0800, [email protected]
>> (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>>
>> >[incoherent .sig deleted]
>>
>> Incoherent? Here it is repeated for you. Obviously it is your
>> english that is at fault.
>>
>> =====
>>
>> There’s no business like Shoah Business
>> Like no business I know.
>> Everything about it is appealing,
>> Everything that traffic will allow.
>> No where can you get that happy feeling
>> Then when your stealing

>Incoherent, Mr. Giwer.
>
>Than when you’re stealing.
>
>What you wrote is grammatically nonsensical.
>
>And since you’ve stated so on so many occasions, there’s nothing wrong
>with me (or Mr. Ghandi) pointing out your stupidity, is tehre?

Stealing is stealing regardless of what you wish. Dropping US and German
subisdies the per capita income of Israel drops 20-30%. So what? It a US
version of Cuba simply not abandoned.

But the Cold War is over. We no longer need Israel to sell us captured Soviet
weapons. And despite the fantasy, ALL captured weapons were sold, not given, to
the US. It was always a matter of profit.

Some friends.

Some allies.

Fucking murderers.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:12:11 PDT 1996
Article: 43563 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.politics.nationalism,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.flame,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem’yanyuk at Sobibor
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 18:45:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51c5t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:51:21 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:32:20 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

># Clearly I received two harassing phone calls about a private matter
>#between me an my ISP. So there is no question in the mind of netcom
>#that there is a conspiracy going on unless of course YFE or the

>We understand you are embarrassed, little man, and are attempting to save
>face. But sadly, Netcom has you pegged and your lies here isn’t going to
>help you now.

That of course is the point to two people just happening to call and complain
exactly at the same time, is it not?

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 10:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 66339 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time (was Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:47:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51d[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <51[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 04:45:15 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:07:52 -0300, Keith Morrison
>: wrote:

>: > 1. A Jew cannot be a citizen of the Reich. He has no right to
> ^^

>: And just what does “can not become” have to do with “removing
>: citizenship from”? ^^^^^^
>:

>Matt, this is pathetic. Put down the bottle. I beg you.

Stop begging. You look silly on your knees.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 10:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 66348 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 02:54:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <510rta[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:19:13 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:

>[About Matt Giwer’s lies]

># I think this is an honest mistake.

>No mistake, Giwer the liar intentionally posted a testimony
>which does not exist. And the stinker won’t admit it; watch
>him choke on his lies.

># Dr Charles Bendel testified that at Auschwitz up to a thousand
># people an hour were disposed of in the pits. That’s a far cry
># from 80,000 a day but it’s nearly as absurd.

>You also claimed that it’s impossible to burn corpses in this
>fashion, yet we have a photograph of corpses in Dresden being
>burned in that very fashion. Anyway, since when are you an
>expert on burning corpses?

The pipes are still calling your Dannyboy. It is terrible to see a good Irish
boy go this far wrong.

Please come back after you earn your BS.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 10:22:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66356 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: for the recod
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 03:28:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

McFly nad Ferree are both idiots.
=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 10:22:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66357 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Billy Anderson
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 03:27:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <322eef53.54[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:31:00 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> They use it to build orbitting mind-control lasers, Tommy.
>Better check your tinfoil.

You mean like Yid beanies?

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 17:40:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66432 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can’t read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For “Proof”)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:16:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:59:14, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article <323d56a3.5[email protected]> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:

>> If the “claims” of the revisionist are “utter nonsense” then one
>>should think she would take up the challenge and expose the utter
>>nonsense. “Utter nonsense” seems like something that should be easy to
>>deal with and expose as such.

>Depends what you mean by “easy.” It’s certainly been done quite handily, over
>and over, by the amateur historians involved with Nizkor. But, as you can see
>from the Nizkor site, it often does take a rather lengthy discussion to
>demonstrate a given fallacy or deception of the deniers.

Nothing I have read there has any validity save to those already convinced which
of course blinds them. I have even read several “rebuttals” of scientific
points I have made that would garner an F even in gradeschool science class.

Now of course it is not relevent to me what you or the holohuggers think about
science. However one of my plans is to collect those URLs and post them to
scientific and technical newsgroups as examples of the science that supports the
holocaust.

You do not have to believe my opinion of them. In fact I would hope Nizkor
rejects my opinion completely and adds to their collection. The collection will
be all the more impressive to those who are scientifically literate.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 17:40:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66434 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:58:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323ac4c6.42594[email protected]> <323ad748.8997[email protected]> <323b4e[email protected]> <51ht[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:38:45 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:

>>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>: Concisely, the word “goy” or “goyim” is a racial reference. More
>>: concisely yet, a racial slur.
>>
>>Whoops. Wrong again. Since a goy is a person who isn’t Jewish,
>>and “Jewish” is not a race, “goy” can’t possibly be a racial
>>reference.
>>
>>As to it’s being a slur: it can be used that way. What’s your
>>point?
>>
>>Bill

> Really?

> Questions for Mr.Anderson:

> What is meant by the term “half Jewish”?
> What is meant by the term “he/she looks Jewish”?
> What is the connotations of a Jew being automatically a Jew if
>the mother is a Jew?
> Why do Jews use the term “racist” when condemning an adversary?
> Why do they use the term “Semitic” which is in line with the
>categories Negro, Caucasian, Oriental or Amerind?
> Why are Jews susceptible to certain diseases, one even being
>almost exclusive?

Well asked.

But you forget

What does it mean to be called Big Nose?

> I believe we can stand by for Mr.Anderson to give us his ‘best’.

And well stated. It will be worth the wait.

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 17:40:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer the White Courtesty Phone, Part III
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:59:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:52:47, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article <51i17m$o[email protected]> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>>>Do you honestly think if i sailed into a university and
>>>proclaimed that these events did not happen, i’d be
>>>treated with anything other than derision and disrespect?

>>You wouldn’t be treated with derision and disrespect at all if you had
>>counter-evidence against the Civil War.

>And would jumping up and down and shouting that the Civil War never happened
>constitute “evidence”? Would repeated and deliberately fallacious attacks on
>the actual history surrounding the event be evidence?

>Oh. You think it would . . .

But indeed there is so much physical evidence for the civil war that it could be
completely reconstructed should it vanish from the history books tomorrow.

It differs from the holocaust (what a gas) in that there is no physical evidence
for gassing.

Do you folks think you can pretend not to know the difference forever?

=====

From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 21:37:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66480 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.bluesky.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stumpy is easily amazed.
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:28:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 13 8:30:11 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:26:55, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article Jeffrey writes:

>>”I talked to hundreds of people who serviced and operated the
>>crematoria,” he continued, but the people who operated gas chambers were
>>impossible to find ”

>Amazing, isn’t it, that the mass murderers haven’t often stepped forward to
>admit their crimes?

Which is why Israel has not admitted it murder of the crew of the
Liberty of an the Palestinians in Qana.

=====

From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 09:13:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66550 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Revisionists Today are Winning on A.R.
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:33:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.tampa-1.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 16 Sep 1996 05:34:39 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Kurt Stele ([email protected]) wrote:

>: The Holocauster A-team continually posts the assertion that people won’t
>: believe revisionists because revisionism “sounds crazy.”

>No. People won’t believe “revisionists” because “revisionism” is
>a clumsily cobbled pastiche of lies and half-truths that doesn’t
>hang together for a second under sceptical inquiry.

>: In fact, the Holocauster tactics of smearing and malice and death-wishing
>: towards Giwer and his family, probably contribute more fair-minded lurkers
>: to view the holocausters with distaste, and revisionists with perhaps more
>: sympathy — if not credibility.

>Nobody has smeared Giwer’s family, or engaged in malice toward them,
>or “death-wished” them, whatever that means. Lots of people have
>called Giwer a kook and a troll and an antisemite because, by the
>evidence of his own posts, that is what he is. Joel Rosenberg has
>invited Giwer to “walk south until his hat floats,” which I find
>amusing but distasteful; over against that, Giwer has threatened
>to kill several a.r. regulars, engaged in spamming and mailbombing,
>called people “fatbroad,” “jewboy,” and “shitass,” lied repeatedly,
>and ridiculed an autistic nine-year-old. All the excesses of the
>people exasperated with Giwer–and there have been some, including
>a few from me–would not fill a thimble to the gallon jug of Giwer’s
>abuses.

You mean that includes the harrassing phone calls I get from holhuggers?

Does that include the admitted mailbombing of me by holohuggers like Alec
Grynspan, ex-employee of a murdering organization run by a murdering country?

Does that include harrassing my service providers and the cheering when I was
asked to leave my last ISP? That was the obvious objective, an attempt to
silience what holohuggers do not want to hear?

Does that include a man identifying himself as Ken McVay calling my father to
let me know they knew where to find him? Please come back with the excuses but
this time do not pretend that people are as naive as you would like them to be.

Does that include the lie that I have ever threatened the life of anyone? Are
you going to continue that lie most recently started by Rosenberg (must be
Jewish to have started that lie.)

=====

From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 09:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66576 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews try to Prevent USS Liberty Memorial
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:11:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 87.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:18:42 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> Letter to the Milwaukee Jewish Council following the Council’s efforts to
>> block
>> construction of a library honoring men who died in the attack.

And managed to do so without the slightest bit of physical evidence.

And then of course there are the other six million as only a footnote to both
silly handles and holohuggers.

>Newsgroups are divided into topics for a reason. It is a testament to your
>inability to soundly contradict the FACT of the Holocaust that you raise
>issues wholly unrelated to it.

A fact without the least bit of physical evidence is hardly of interest to
adults. It loses interest just as do stories about fairies and witches. But
there is a class of adults who never lose their interest in such stories.

=====

From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 09:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Relevance to Alt.Revisionism
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:31:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51if39$1d[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 87.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:12:55, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>Actually, there is a relevance, although of course Moran and company have
>missed the point.

>The deniers spend little if any time on putting forth their theory of what
>actually happened if the holocaust didn’t, as they really don’t have one that
>couldn’t be debunked very easily.

Then you have not read much of anything posted here. What you claim has not
been done has been done. Why is it that you do not read?

>Similarly, Jim Ennes and Liberty-fandom spend a great deal of time arguing —
>with perhaps more heat than light — that the Liberty *couldn’t* have been
>unintentionally targeted,

This explained your problem. The argument is clearly that it WAS DELIBERATELY
targeted which is clearly the case.

and very little on their theory of what actually
>happened, other than to stomp about and repeat that Dean Risk and Admiral
>Moorer agree with it, whatever it might be.

Again, you are apologizing for the murderous state of Israel and all the
murderers in it.

=====

From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 09:13:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!newsadm
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: A Deliberate Butchery (continued)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:11:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 87.tampa-2.fl.dial-access.att.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:14:08 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>[a diatribe regarding the USS Liberty]

>This has nothing to do with the Holocaust, or the FACT that the Nazi party
>and your flatulent hero Hitler undertook to exterminate more than 6
>million people, the majority of whom were Jews.

And just where did the other six million go? Remember, oh silly handle, the
total is supposed to be 12 million. That is double the number of bodies that
vanished without a trace.

>Newsgroups are divided into topics for a reason.

And that is why the subject here is revisionism and NOT orthodoxy. Why do you
not stay on topic? And since you do not, stop complaining about other people.

=====

The Aktion Reinhard Death Camps

Auschwitz Birkenau

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Chelmno

Dachau

Maidanek (Majdanek)

Mauthausen

Nordhausen

Belzec

Treblinka

Mittelbau Dora

Gusen

Westerbork

Matthias Giwer

John Hron

Ken McVay

Steve Thomas

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