Documents

Giwer Matt, 5-1996 – p2

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:54 PDT 1996
Article: 62874 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s little boy mind
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 09:36:31 GMT
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 13:54:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>>You forgot some datas; the main is that liquid HCN will fast
>>polymerize and for some other reasons will become quickly useless.
>>Liquid HCN is hazardous, but unstable too.

> Evidently it was shipped to Degesch. Do you have the
>polymerization times? Is it ten minutes, 10 hours, 10 days, 10 weeks?

Frankly it would be interesting to see the polymer structure and what
its effects are. Chemical polymerization does not necessarily mean
anything to what we are discussing.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:55 PDT 1996
Article: 62877 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Show your support – sign on here
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:58:53 GMT
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On 5 Sep 1996 06:28 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 4 Sep 1996 07:30 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>>Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>>>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>>>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean McVay ain’t the web master of Nizkor? Okay then I see he
>>>>>>is listed as “Director”. What’s the difference between a ‘webmaster’
>>>>>>of a website and a “director”?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken McVay is just the computer tech, but he has a Spielberg complex, so
>>>>> we let him call himself “the Director.”
>>>>
>>>> “We”? Who is “we”?
>>
>>> The Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG for short). I know we exist, I
>>> even have the t-shirt to prove it!
>>
>>> No, seriously, “we” would be all of the people loosely involved with
>>> Nizkor (though I don’t know why I am answering you seriously now given
>>> my nothing else I have said in this thread is anything more than a
>>> troll.)
>>
>> If those co-conspirators would identify themselves rather than begging
>>off from any claim of active participation then they can be named in
>>the lawsuit against Nizkor.
>>
>> They vanish the instant the lawsuit is mentioned.

> You are hallucinating again. I was on the Nizkor web site the other
> day and the list of contributers to Nizkor has grown since the previous
> time I looked. The only thing vanishing is the reality of your lawsuit
> – which we all know you will never file as it gives us the right to
> depose you (which would be more fun that I can even imagine!) and the
> cost of you filing a suit would be prohibitive.

> But dream (or hallucinate) on, oh sottish one…

Thank you. I will check again. All the contributors can be named and
spend the time to beg being excused before the court.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:56 PDT 1996
Article: 62878 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 09:45:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 21:27:32 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>> Brian Harmon writes:
>>> , well, let me make a few points first:
>>>
>>> 1) Dachau was not a mass-gassing camp like Auschwitz or the operation
>>> reinhard camps.
>>Auschwitz doesn’t appear to have been a mass gassing camp either.

>Another one of those “because I say” so guys, folks.

Because there has never been any physical evidence presented that
there was any mass gassing at Auschwitz. We have been over this many
times.

>>> 2) Using an autopsy to determine that a person died by gassing is rather difficult
>>> unless you’re there soon after the victim died.
>>
>>Nonetheless, the claim is that autopsies were conducted. Where are the reports?
>>Don’t quote me people’s opinions, including the doctor’s. Show me the reports,along
>>with evidence to prove that forensic tests were carried out to prove that the victim died
>>from cyanide poisoning.

>This guy refuses to understand reality folks.

So where are the autopsey reports? Non-existant? You are correct, no
one can understand holohugger reality. That no one can produce them
proves they must exist.

>>> You must be looking at a different set of pictures than the
>>> ones I’ve seen.

>>Could be, but they were taken at Belsen. I have also seen film footage showing
>>people in relatively good health. And I have seen the pictures you describe as well.

>In WHAT!

>>> > The majority of deaths in these camps was due
>>> > to disease.
>>>
>>> Oh? So the piles of starved corpses found there died due to
>>> ‘disease?’
>>
>>Yes. typhus and dysentery are “wasting diseases”.

>Diseases caused by? Let’s try and be honest here.

Inhaling HCN of course. What other possible cause?

>>> I assume you have read source material that makes you believe this.
>>> What was it, pray tell?
>>
>>Already posted. You’ll have to look for it.

>This doesn’t fly here. This is what is called by lurkers as a typical
>cop-out.

That is what the revisionists call not being suckered in by the
holohuggers beating to death and then trying to start over from ground
zero a couple months later.

The purpose of this conference is to make advances. Not to retread
ground in response to holohugger tactics.

The majority of the material is contained on the five major
revisionist sites, as opposed to the one shittly little disorganized
Nizkor.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:56 PDT 1996
Article: 62881 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Show your support – sign on here
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 11:01:48 GMT
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On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:34:42, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
>>From: [email protected] (william c anderson)
>>Subject: Re: Show your support – sign on here
>>Date: 5 Sep 1996 16:28:26 GMT

>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>>: If those co-conspirators would identify themselves rather than begging
>>: off from any claim of active participation then they can be named in
>>: the lawsuit against Nizkor.
>>:
>>: They vanish the instant the lawsuit is mentioned.

>>Matt, you don’t even read this stuff, do you? Every holohugger on
>>this list has BEGGED you to include him or her in the “lawsuit against
>>Nizkor.” I’m begging you right now–please, please, please include
>>me in the lawsuit against Nizkor. I haven’t done any work for them,
>>but if you’ll promise to include me in the “lawsuit,” I’ll pony up
>>some pages immediately.

>Me, too! Me, too! And can you sue a bunch of my friends, as well? Florida
>is so nice in January…

I will forward your name also. BTW: Please provide a serving address

ALL OF YOU.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:57 PDT 1996
Article: 62882 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: What the H*ll’s left in Iraq to bomb, craters?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:00:38 GMT
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:40:15 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Boz) wrote:

>>[email protected] (ZB) wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:58:59 GMT, “Duncan R. MacMillan”
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> How much is Saddam Hussein being paid to conduct his bomb-dropping
>>>>escapades at such a convenient time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>—
>>>>D. MacMillan
>>>> “Usenet Enquirer”.
>>
>>>If you’re implying that our retaliatory strikes have some political
>>>considerations, it might make sense if Clinton were 20 points behind
>>>rather than 20 points ahead.
>>
>>Are you serious? A president prepared to go to war just so he can get
>>elected? Get real. Not even in America.
>>
>>Boz

> Who knows if this may be true. Yet the newspapers are carrying
>this theme.
> They carry the theme that the candidates should do this or that
>to curry the Jewish vote.
> The Jews make up only two percent or less of the American
>population so I wonder what they’re talking about.

The electoral college votes of New York State. And of course good
media coverage.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:58 PDT 1996
Article: 62884 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Thinks that U.S. Courts are part of the Inquisition
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:24:04 GMT
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On 5 Sep 1996 13:14:30 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> Right here. It was posted. We have been over this. Look it up.

> The complete report was not posted here. I posted only the
>conclusions. The acutal report runs about 100 pages.

So post the rest since you have it. You have posted incomplete
material but there is no reason to assume you are being honest in your
claim about the rest.

Particularly since Elie Weisel and Simon Wiesenthal both support my
position, that you are wrong.

>> > Larson’s complete report was used at trial. It is generally available from
>> >several public sources as it was later made a part of the Congressional
>Record.
>> >He described that which he saw. It included operating gas chambers and
>> >victims of those gas cahmbers.
>
>> Let us examine the prima facia value of your claim.
>
>> You claim that he described an operating gas chamber. You therefore
>> claim that the US Army was permitting a gas chamber to continue
>> operating for him to observe.

> No such claim was made. The gas chamber was in place; he
>examined it.

Look above. You claim he observed operating gas chambers. Only a
holohugger can believe it is possible to observe an operating gas
chamber that is not operating (and which all authorities now agree
never existed.)

>Cadavers were present. He made observations about them and
>rendered a medical opinion as to the casue of death. What is so hard to
>understand. Please try to stay sober when you are reading.

But even holohuggers agree in their wildest imaginations that the
gassing stopped months before the camp was liberated and that the
bodies were cremated after being gassed. (Even though it is only the
wildest-eyed holohuggers who still believe there was any gassing.)

So there were no cadavers unless you are claiming he autopseyed
crematoria ashes but never wrote up a report of his methods. That is
quite the pity as it is beyond today’s forensic abilities to do that.
A great scientist, clear years before his time.

>> > You have a very odd view as to how trials are conducted.
>
>> But I do know how they were conducted. And I also know that someone
>> like you who claims to be an attorney supports courts like this.

> You have no knowledge as to how they were conducted.

That is because they were not conducted else there would be reports.

You have
>proven this time and again with your lies. For example, your statements that
>convicitions were obtained and men executed for the Katyn Forest Massacre
>and your statement that Hoess was acquitted.

I said Hoess was acquitted in his first trial in Poland. I have only
challenged you folks to find the reason why. (Hint: The court broke
ranks and required physical evidence. You find physical evidence of
what.)

And while we are at dishonest, you deleted the following description
of the kind of court you find up to the highest standards of
jurisprudence. As a highly educated attorney it is only a commentary
upon the decline of the justice system in the US that you find the
following to ber proper court procedure.

—–

And if defense witnesses should get carried away and presume to
claim that they know nothing of gas chambers, and perhaps even
dare to dispute their existence, then the least that will happen
to them is that they are declared unreliable. Even the Judge
himself may become abusive.260 But how the Judges change their
tune in those exceptional cases where a former SS-man
‘confesses’:

“A valuable witness, one of the few who confirm at least some
of what everyone knows anyhow.”261

Indeed, the author has hit the nail on the head! Since
everything is “judicially noticed” and considered self-evident
anyhow, it would be much easier to dispense with all the
laborious proceedings and simply hand down the verdict as soon
as the witnesses for the prosecution have had their say.

The courts frequently conclude from these circumstances that
witnesses for the defense cannot contribute anything of value to
an investigation anyhow, and thus disregard their testimony or
even dispense with summoning them in the first place.262

260 Cf. B. Naumann, op. cit. (Note ), p. 265; I. Mller-Mnch,
op. cit. (Note ), p. 107: “What all do you think you can make
this Court believe? I will dispense with any further testimony
of yours.”, also pp. 116, 172.

261 H. Lichtenstein, op. cit. (Note ), p. 56; op. cit. (Note ),
pp. 72f.: “[…] the Chief of the District Court said, well, we
get this sort of witness too sometimes. ‘Thank God!’, one might
add.”

—–

The point is that you support the idea that the court can take
judicial note of the guilt of the defendents pleading not guilty and
conduct the proceedings accordingly.

But then, you are an attorney. You believe this to be a fair trial.
=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:59 PDT 1996
Article: 62885 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 09:56:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
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References: <50[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 21:23:15 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>>Concerning the alleged autopsies performed by Dr. Larson, as well as the numbers
>>of people who died at Belsen after liberation: rblackmore wrote:
>>> > I don’t need to look up his report.
>>>
>>> Why not, Herr Schwarzesel? Not interested in the truth, but in simply
>>> running off at the mouth? How unsuprising.
>>>
>>> > You are the one making accusations that there were autopsies done on people
>>> > who had allegedly been gassed.
>>>
>>> It’s not an accusation, Herr Schwarzesel. It’s simply quoting what Dr.
>>> Larson said:
>>>
>>>(Irrelevant drivel snipped)
>>>
>>> Herr Schwarzesel, please note the part: “But, in my opinion, only
>>> relatively few of the inmates I personally examined,…..
>>
>>I am not interested in his opinions. I want to see the autopsy reports which
>>prove conclusively that the presence of cyanide was found in these people
>>after forensic testing. That is what will convince me. Do you have it?

>I have to drop my civility here for a moment. Look, Mr. Belling, you
>were informed that gassing was NOT (N-O-T) used to the extent that it
>was at Auschwitz.

If it was used 1000 times at Auschwitz then I agree, 1000 times 0 is
still zero.

>The majority if the EXTERMINATION CAMPS used car
>exhaust.

Yet there has not been one credible eyewitness report, not one bit of
forensic evidence and no signs of human remains in the quantity
required and the one report from Treblinka is an obvious fraud.

But you know that.

One you allow yourself to understand the differences between
>concnetration camps in Germany vs. the extermination camps in Poland
>we might be able be on the same page. It will take a bit of learning
>on your part to do this. Can you manage this simple distinction?

1000 times 0 is still zero. No physical evidence.

Only tales from the likes of Bomba the Barber with around 100 people
in a 12×12 foot gas chamber, most of them seated, while he cut their
hair, exclusively fhe hair of naked females to give you an idea of his
perverted imagination.

You would have thought Treblinka could have afforded a larger gas
chamber. But then from his description of it, we know 800,000 is
impossible.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:24:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62886 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT – sign on here
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 11:27:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:51:15 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>

>Three more names requesting to be put on the list of those endorsing
>McVay’s statement about Moran’s sister.

>>Those already signed on are:
>>
>>1. Chuck Ferree
>>
>>2. Joel Rosenberg
>>
>>3. Danny Mittleman
>>
>>4. Jamie McCarthy
>>
>>5. Keith Morrison
>>
>>6. Yale Edeiken
>>
>>7. Ken McVay, reiterating
>>
>8. Mike Curtis
>>
>9. Richard Graves
>>
>10. Mark VanAlstine

And if by chance you have a sister and she wishes she can sue them all
independently for libel. She is not a party to this conference and
such there is no defense against the charge of libel. And YFE will
lose his license over it.

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:24:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62898 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:44:36 GMT
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On 5 Sep 1996 06:22 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 4 Sep 1996 06:44 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>>Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>>>On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>>
>>>>># When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
>>>>># Demjanjuk for perjury?
>>>>
>>>>>Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?
>>>>
>>>> He was not in the camp described. Therefore they lied. What is so
>>>>hard about that?
>>
>>> It’s hard becuase it is inconsistent with other assertions you have
>>> posted. Didn’t you just a day or so ago post that eyewitness testimony
>>> given fifty years after the fact is necessarily polluted? Didn’t you
>>> yourself say that even if these people THINK they are telling the
>>> truth, it is impossible to separate the truth from what they have been
>>> told during the intervening 50 years?
>>
>> Excuse me. I was unaware you believe everyone related to the
>>prosecution in this case should be brought up on charges of malicious
>>prosecution and abuse of process.
>>
>> OK, fine with me.
>>
>> But the bottom line is who is going to spend years in jail for this
>>known travesty of justice in any civilized country?
>>
>>> Did you notice that even though people here jump on most everything you
>>> say, no one jumped on that particular point? So why do you contradict
>>> it now?
>>
>> I was waiting for someone like you to admit the Israeli government was
>>involved in malicious prosecution of Demjanjuk. I chose the form of
>>the first post in expectation of someone, now you, to hold that the
>>Government of Israel is morally culpable of persecuting an innocent
>>man.
>>
>> It is appreciated that you have pointed out there is no justice in
>>Israel.

> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest
> is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he
> has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others
> of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which
> contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
> emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted
> himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity
> that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to:
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

> He is an anti-semite too. To wit:

>>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>>Like no business I know.
>>Everything about it is appealing,
>>Everything that traffic will allow.
>>No where can you get that happy feeling
>>Then when your stealing
>>

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> For More Information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
> Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
> North America: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> (Under construction – permanently!)
Yes, little one, you have been caught between your denial and your
excuse and rather than admit that there is no justice in Israel you
have only the silly little shit mantra of OBE, the US DOD employee.

On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA)
wrote:

>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz

>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors who arrived from
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
> over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.

>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination.

>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.

>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.

>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution
for her treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the
witnesses.

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always
laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers
believe this sort of crap.

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses
of these wagons, depending upon translation.

And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.

Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the
engine. Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see
the faces of pilots from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly
has to be paid for this performance.

>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very
efficient these Nazis.

>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe is heard of those awful days which
>had become from day to day more terrible.

A true whacko so far.

>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when
they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons?
This person is truly psychotic.

>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.

Certainly fingers were just pulled off.

Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?

>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.

But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.

You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the
same testimony.

> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust pains and agony and they started
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.

>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
> to say to the Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of
the chant above come from? This witness?

>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”

Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one
has.

>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of
what happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.

>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.

But she has no way of knowing.

> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.

They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant
laundry was expanded.

Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes
tactic.

>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.

>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.

Who is it that does not want hearsay?

But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness
it. What in the hell does the author think witness means?

The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.

But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.

>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty people as it had been for several
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty people of
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that
this is level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials.
Even more interesting that crossexamination was not permitted.

> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.

>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.

Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.

>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?

>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop trees.
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.

> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to
organize this and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by
them?

>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.

But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.

> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.

Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.

>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of tree leaves and poisonous mushrooms that so burned their
>intestines that they wished to die.

They did not live off of them.

>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.

Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way
the holocaust works.

=====

http://www.codoh.com/

=====

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:24:01 PDT 1996
Article: 62901 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:17:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:41:34, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> Kevin Alfred Strom writes:
>>From: Kevin Alfred Strom
>>Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
>>Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 16:14:05 -0700

>>Christian Bau wrote:
>>> …
>>>
>>> Ask any German: In Germany, you have the right of free speech. In Germany,
>>> you dont have the right to spread nazi propaganda. These two things have
>>> nothing, absolutely nothing to do with each other.

>>I can think of no more perfect example of Orwellian doublethink than
>>this.

>>In Germany, you have the right to free speech, as long as it is speech
>>that the (occupation) government approves of.

>Well, no. The unfettered free speech provided by our Constitution is unusual
>on this planet. Most countries that one reasonably thinks of as free —
>Canada, the UK, New Zealand, France, for example — don’t go to quite such
>extremes.

>I think that is, perhaps, unfortunate, but it’s hard to argue that it should
>be the choice of some Minneapolis nazi bozo as to what the laws in Germany
>restricting the spread of nazi propaganda ought to be.

Why should the propaganda of one party be prohibited while the
propaganda of other parties is permitted?

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 62904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: worth repeating
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 12:25:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 411
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 06 7:25:26 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:22:20 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer still hasn’t commented on the outright lie he posted.

>To remind:

> From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
> Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
> Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT

>In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
>trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
>Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
>Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
>gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.

>This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
>Holocaust – they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
>them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
>in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
>said there was such gassing, in order to “prove” that this
>witness was lying.

>Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
>doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
>gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
>not Belsen, and he didn’t say they were all gassed in one
>night.

>Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
>Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
>source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
>my French.

>-Danny Keren.