Giwer Matt, 5-1996 – p1

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 08:14:55 PDT 1996
Article: 61431 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: to keep you folks up to date
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:30:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Alec Grynspan continues to mail bomb me (in denfense of another
holohugger as his sllippery excuse) and uu.net and its subsidiary
uunet.ca continue to aid and abit his mail bombing despite repeateed
reports of his activities.

It is unclear if harrassment of this sort is criminal but is cerrainly
a violation of netiquette.

It is also clear that individual terrorist activities by a person who
told me that he did wetwork for the Mossad, i.e. was a murderer for
tha Jewish intelligence organization, so he is happy with this form or
terrorism.

He is a minor player. He in fact lied about being into wetwork but
there is no reason that I should not gig him on the claim since he
made it to me on the phone.

It is the usual braggart claim and it is unlikely to be true. But
then, he is a profeessed Jew and mailbombs with the concurrance and
approval of UUNET.CA.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 08:33:17 PDT 1996
Article: 61436 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Interesting observation
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 13:19:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
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The holohuggers here are very much believers in witches, demons, gods,
demons and all the rest.

No wonder they believe in the holohuggercaust.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 08:33:18 PDT 1996
Article: 61438 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:59:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:83896 alt.revisionism:61438

On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 20:43:54 GMT, [email protected] (Drew Stowers)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 00:38:21 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC)
>>wrote:

>>>Steven Speilberg created his drek for power, that’s all just power for
>>>himself. Sure, other Jews are stupid and conservative enough to believe
>>>that the power gained by our rulers will trickle down to ourselves, but
>>>we still have to persuede them, not an easy task. We will liberate the
>>>Jews from slavery whether they like it or not, even if we have to carry
>>>them to freedom kicking and biting.

>> Of course! The only reason he made Schindler’s List was so he could
>>get an Oscar. Quid pro quo. I was unaware anyone thought that was a
>>secret.

>> There was no way he was going to get an Oscar for something the
>>majority of people liked, ask George Lucas.

>> If you want an Oscar in Hollywood, do something Jewish or wait until
>>you are dying like Hitchcock and the rest.

>

>Matt you poor man. I seriously doubt that Speilberg would even have
>thought about making _Schindler’s List_ if it weren’t for you silly
>revisionist.

Of course he would. Revision is condemed. It can not be spoken.
There is nothing to post against.

There is no reason to make such a movie unless, in your terms, there
is something to react against, but there is nothing. There are six
websites at most. That is the entire publicallcally available
opposion and they did NOT exist when the movie was conceived. But you
know that.

Of course you are encouraged to post what existed prior to the
conception of the movie, pre-1992 as I have read the genesis of SL.

>If revisionist had kept their mouths shut, then the Holocaust would
>have past into memory. A memory kept alive only in Israel, Germany
>and Poland. But because of revisionists there is a Shoah Foundation,
>a Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. and Nizkor Project.

Do you really to claim that if a few pseudo-Nazi fringe groups did not
exist all of the holocaust crap and the slavish support of it Israel
would have vanished?

>The bitterest pill you and other revisionist must swallow is that
>almost all the current interest in the Holocaust is your doing.

Even if that were true, the idiocies of the gassing claims will not
change. They are completely absurd as you know.

>(Some personal advice. The term ‘Blood Libel’ is a Nazi phrase. Not
>a Neo-Nazi phrase, not a antisemitic phrase but a Nazi phrase. Adolf
>himself used it. Next time, just use the word ‘libel’ by itself.)

You advice is rejected. Any perons who calls any other person a Nazi,
an antisemite or anything related has committed blood libel.

It is the victim who makes the call, not the semite attacker.

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 08:39:09 PDT 1996
Article: 41577 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.flame,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: education exemption for copyright laws
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 13:03:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <32288a75.192[email protected]>
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On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 19:00:49 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:46:50 -0300, Keith Morrison
>wrote:

>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>> For what the fantasy life of the copyright infringing conspirators is
>>> worth, the background of the education exemption is that it is
>>> conducted in the classroom and in the classroom only.
>>>
>>> Nothing at Nizkor satisfies the meaning of the exemption despite the
>>> knowing lies of those who have posted otherwise.
>>>
>>> But then, no need to respond, it is in the hands of the Canadian
>>> authories at the moment for their determination.
>>
>>Well, I’m sure the Canadian authories will get right on it when their
>>constituent authors are finished their latest projects.

>Well, Matt’s file is in the hands of the Canadia authorities at the
>moment also.

>Of course if Matt wrote this himself they are probably at a loss. I
>doubt that either Allan Rock or Mr. Dosangh have a Giwerundean
>translator on staff.

>This from the idoit that told me that Mr. Dosangh was in Ontario and I
>should learn geography.

In this country, threatening criminal action to coerse a civil action
is criminal.

What point are you trying to make in this post other than some ten
people on this conference have committed criminal offenses uneder the
laws of Canada in addition to the US?

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 08:41:52 PDT 1996
Article: 61442 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 13:05:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:29:33 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>If Giwer is so smart, and everybody else here so stupid,
>how come Giwer doesn’t have a job (poor fellow had to
>retire at 46, there was no one dumb enough to hire him,
>apparently), and we all have jobs?

Remember, jerkoff, I could retire at 46. You can no not and enver
will be able to do that, child.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 09:26:28 PDT 1996
Article: 61455 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:42:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 150
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 31 Aug 1996 10:30:43 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Alec Grynspan)
>offered this observation with regard to a troll’s moral values:

>> MG> We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
>> MG> To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of
>> MG> earth

>>For someone that screams about Copyright violations, your lack of
>>attribution to Robert A Heinlein shows what you really are.

>Mr. Giwer has flown his colours even more openly than that,
>Sir. He has plagarized an entire Usenet article and published
>it to a moderated newsgroup under his own name!

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html

>So embarrassing was it when he was caught with his hands _and_
>feet in the proverbial cookie jar that he has refused to utter
>so much as a peep in his own defense. That is, of course, not
>surprising – what, indeed, _could_ the thief say, caught
>creeping down the alley with the goods in his metaphorical
>hands?

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html

>He is not, however, simply a thief, Mr. Grynspan… perhaps you
>have forgotten this this is the selfsame besotted, loudmouthed
>blowhard that tucked his tail firmly between his legs (there
>being little there to impede this process) and bravely fled when
>offered a golden opportunity to back up his mouth with his chequebook.

>Tiring of his endless stream of evasions, insults and outright
>lies, I offered him an opportunity to put his money where his
>mouth was, and demonstrate that he actually _believed_ the
>crap he serves up as his own pompous brand of historical “reality.”

>I offered to let an independent forensics lab determine the
>issue, at, I might add, my expense if it should determine that
>this crude fellow was correct.

>What prompted his immediate “advance to the rear,” of course,
>was the other side of the coin – that he would have to meet
>the cost, as a donation to the Nizkor Project, if his foolish
>contention turned out, as it must, to be completely, utterly
>worthless. At that point, hoisted firmly on his own petard,
>he ran like the cowardly bully he daily proves himself to be.

>For the details of my offer, I invite you to peruse
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html

>I further invite you, and anyone else among the estimated
>70-Million internet users, to regularly and routinely remind
>this prevaricating failure of a man of his cowardice by
>providing references to the URL cited, and to the offer he so
>obviously dreads.

>This coward, Matt Giwer, is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.

>For many here, no greater compliment can accrue than to be insulted by
>this contemptable husk of a man.

>For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.drunken.bastards,
>an equally appropriate dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
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Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

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=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 10:03:32 PDT 1996
Article: 61464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack of the killer holohuggers
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:38:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 16:38:25 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Who are the uncivil people here? The holohuggers.
>
>”Holohuggers” is a rather uncivil term. So is “fatbroad.” So is “Jew-boy.”
>But you knew that, liar.

>> Obviously there is more going on here that meets the eye, mainly that
>> the holohoggers pretend to be organized as Jews and think they can
>> spread terror simply by being Jews.

>KenMcVay is not Jewish.
>Jaime McCarthy is not Jewish.
>Mark van Alstine is not Jewish.

I never said any of them were.

That I why I invetned the term holohugger.

But you know that.

>But you know that, you liar.
>
>Sara
>
>Oh… before I forget:
>
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

You should not repeat this as It requires me to report Ken McVay’s DOD
connection.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 10:39:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61466 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What is amazing among the holohuggers
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:35:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]news2.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-07.ix.netcom.com
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They really believe in spirits.

Even more interesting, they believe in the Devil/Satan.

Even more interesting there are more fewer atheists than there are
people who believe in the devil.

These are the holohuggers.

They are superstitious, religion beiieving basket cases.

They are so stupid that they really believe there was a Moses, that
the Hebrews were in Israel and an dozen other things to stupid ot
mention.

They are dumber than dogshit.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 11:44:58 PDT 1996
Article: 61486 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 13:17:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Aug 1996 23:53:20 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 30 Aug 1996 14:17:06 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:
>:
>: >Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>:
>: >: Your friend is an idiot.
>:
>: >Boy, the evidence for Kurt Stele’s thesis that deniers never, ever
>: >call people names just continues to mount. How could I ever have
>: >doubted him?
>:
>: It is an accurate description for some who believes in the devil. You
>: too?

>Actually, Matt, the statement you responded to was that the person
>in question believed in witches–not the devil. Nevertheless, I
>wasn’t responding to that statement, or to your reply–I was pointing
>out that deniers, like you, often engage in name calling.

>Any questions?

Yes.

Are you enough of an idiot to believe in witches?

What a holohugger.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 15:08:45 PDT 1996
Article: 61543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gassed again and again
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:59:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 31 4:59:18 AM CDT 1996
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Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous
escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993
interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that
he “was sent to the [Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The
newspaper account went on to relate: “Each time he survived, watching
with horror as many of the women and children gassed with him
collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t know how he was able to
survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer mused: “Maybe
children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse
than Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and
sister, who were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived
internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

If the Monty Python troupe had only come across this one.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 22:02:41 PDT 1996
Article: 61578 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news.dx.net!coopnews.coop.net!world!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:32:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:31:03 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 96 11:46:21, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org] [Sunday August 25 1996 >07:59][*][0]*>

> >> Actually, it’s a libelous statement.

> MG> Actually you publically stated in this newsgroup that you were
> MG> into wetwork for the Jewish intelligence agency and wetwork is
> MG> murder.

> MG> Or would you have it called something else?

>Yes – a delusion on the part of a mentally sick individual who has
>run into a situation where he loses continuously, so he attacks with
>distortions and lies.

>++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

Wetwork is murder and that is what you told me on the phone and you
said you did on behalf of the Mossad.

Were you lying then or are you lying now?

From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 22:02:42 PDT 1996
Article: 61586 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: real showerheads
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 11:16:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl16-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 31 6:15:58 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 30 Aug 96 15:17:38, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[real showerheads] [Friday August 30 1996 04:56][*][0]*>

> MG> intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and
> MG> outtake of gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide
> MG> powder was used to generate the lethal smoke. From the gas
> MG> chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory.”

>A good description by a non-chemist of Zyklon-B.

>So?

>You’re spamming again, I see.

>++GMAIL 1.3++ I know that you’re trying. Very trying.
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

All you are showing is that you are ignorant of chemisty to make that
claim. What do push button controls have to do with chemistry? What
pressure regulation is there? What smoke is there? What intake and
outtake was there to control?

You need to learn much more before your juvenile tactics are corrected
and you are prepared to participate here fully.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Mon Sep 2 20:59:40 PDT 1996
Article: 61789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:34:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:33:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:28:13 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> You ain’t shit more than a Jewish murderer for a Jewish organization.
>>
>> That is all we ever exepected from a Jew.

>
>Hmm.
>
>The word is “expected,” Mr. Giwer, not “exepected.”
>
>And the above two sentences are absolute and definitive proof that you are
>an anti-Semite, Mr. Giwer, through and through.
>
>Not to mention an illiterate moron.

And it also shows that Alec Grynspan is a murderer for a Jewish
intelligence organization as he told me on the phone and has discussed
here.

More than that, he has said here that ke killed Americans.

But then, you know that.

So why would you defend an admitted murderer?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From m[email protected] Mon Sep 2 23:38:42 PDT 1996
Article: 61803 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A minor question
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 00:05:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 7:05:32 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Why is that didn’t discover anything peculiar about Auschwitz until
after the end of the war?
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:00 PDT 1996
Article: 61822 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No “induction” holes here – kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 02:59:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 7:59:55 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Since this has been rerun week of the oldies-but-goodies of the
holohuggery, this one needs to be seen again.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:00 PDT 1996
Article: 61834 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 05:58:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 10:58:01 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 16:52:17 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 31 Aug 1996 23:53:20 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Actually, Matt, the statement you responded to was that the person
>: >in question believed in witches–not the devil. Nevertheless, I
>: >wasn’t responding to that statement, or to your reply–I was pointing
>: >out that deniers, like you, often engage in name calling.
>:
>: >Any questions?
>:
>: Yes.
>:
>: Are you enough of an idiot to believe in witches?

>Well, yeah–I believe in witches,

Then you are an idiot.

if by that you mean people who
>practice the Wiccan religion. If you mean people with magical
>powers who fly about on broomsticks and cause ye crops to wither
>in ye fields, of course I don’t.

You believe in burning bodies without fuel and people who were gassed
six times and lived to tell about it. There is no way to
pre-establish the limits of your credulity.

>Next question: what does this have to do with the assertion, made
>here by you, Moran and Stele, that deniers never, ever call names?

My assertion was that I (only referring to myself) did not START the
name calling. In this particular case, anyone believing in witches is
accurately described as an idiot. It is no more name calling than
describing a vegan as an idiot.

>How do you justify this assertion in light of the fact that, just in
>the last month, you’ve used invective ranging from “idiot” to “asshole”
>to “holohugger” to “fatbroad” and on to “Jewboy”?

As above, I only stated that I did not start it. The first insults in
the exchange when I started here again last year were my being called
the blood libels of neo-nazi and antisemite. Those are the most vile
insults in modern American society.

And as such there is no name I can call or any aspersion I can cast
that comes even close to those names not makes up for the blood libel
of the holohuggers who started the name calling.

But you know that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:01 PDT 1996
Article: 61835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:14:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:14:32 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:98397 alt.revisionism:61835 alt.politics.white-power:41762 soc.culture.europe:47471 soc.culture.german:84833

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 09:46:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected](Zenoink) wrote:

>> Sara:
>>
>> I don’t think you can wiggle out of this dilemma quite so easily.
>
>I don’t see a dilemma here, Kay, so I’m certainly not trying to wiggle out
>of anything.
>>
>> What makes the Lauck case different is that he is being punished for a
>> crime of thought and speech.
>
>No difference at all. Lauck broke the LAWS of two foreign countries. He
>bragged about doing so.
>>
>> Drugs and drug dealing are illegal in the US, but free speech is not.
>
>What is legal or illegal in the UNITED STATES is NOT the question. He was
>not tried in the United States. He was tried in GERMANY, whose laws he DID
>knowingly break.
>>
>> While US policy may indeed be to leave the tourists and the expatriates
>> to the mercy of local laws, this does not mean we can simply shrug our
>> shoulders over the nature of those laws.

>Fine. That makes sense. If you’re opposed to it, DO something about it.
>But don’t blame the Germans or Danish for exerting THEIR RIGHTS to try and
>sentence someone who breaks their laws.

A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
what I can to get them the guns.

It is a very dangerous thing the German government is doing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:02 PDT 1996
Article: 61837 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:05:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:05:59 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:84471 alt.revisionism:61837

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 17:08:04 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>>
>> In the US we are down to about a half million people tops, in any form
>> who give any kind of a damn about any holocaust whatsoever. In 20
>> more years their leaders will be dead and forgotten and so will the
>> movement.
>>
>> The 50 year memorials of the events of WW II were held in 1944 and
>> 1945 are over. To any rational person, so is any holocaust. Consider
>> that even Clinton showing up at a VFW meeting talks about Vietnam even
>> though the “leaders” are greyheads from WW II. (If Billie Jeff shows
>> up at one, email me if he exits alive.)
>>
>> It is an ethnic obsession and of no interest to any other person.

>So why have millions of people – the majority of whom are _not_ Jews –
>visited the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum?

I was unaware that the religion/ethnic group of the tourists was taken
down at the door. So first you are uphill in your claim.

On the other hand, it is touted, a matter of curiosity. A proper
survey would be post vacation and ask people to rate everything they
visited and see where it stands in their rating, or simply ask if they
would pay to see it again.

So what has been the total visitor count over how many years? How
does it compare to the Washington Monument or the Museum of Natural
History or the Capitol?

More clearly, upon what basis do you think your question has any
implicite meaning? After all, even Plan Nine from Outer Space has had
millions of viewers. And then there are things like ID4 with no
intrinsic merit of any kind that are hits.

>And why are university programmes in Holocaust education expanding –
>not only in the U.S., but abroad?

The same reason equally worthless feminist studies are increasing,
they are politically correct and people will pay real money for them.
There is no academic value in it any more than any other minute aspect
to WW II.

>And why are increasing numbers of books on the Holocaust being
>published? And increasing numbers of doctoral theses being written?

See the sig.

>Doesn’t look much like a decline in interest to me….

The more they say about it the worse it gets for them.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:03 PDT 1996
Article: 61838 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Beaulieu break the 1 Meg psychological bareer
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:07:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:07:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 15:50:05 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>>>I havn’t yet receive any response to my question about the strange
>>>way Nizkor keep track of people’s posts here, but for a while, I was
>>>looking at my name in the people directory: it happened! I broke the
>>>1 Meg bareer recently I joined A. Baron, Tom Moran, M. Giwer and a couple
>>>of others in the millionaire club (while Matt may have join it after a month).
>>>Perhaps one could say I’m a bit emotive (or nut), but this is an important
>>>moment in my life, perhaps as much as when I swam a 100 meters below 1 minute
>>>15 seconds.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Some of my stuff is archived. Most of us who contend with deniers do
>>not post a lot of drivel. I’m glad you are proud that you have posted
>>enough drivel to be in a league wit te above names dribblers. You
>>ought to be proud!

> I guess this person thinks all he has to do is denounce something
>as “drivel” and the readers should fall in behind him. Some sales job.
>He says he has a product. He says it’s great. Does he show it? No.

It is difficult to imagine a lurker dumb enough to do more than hit
the N key on this clown.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:04 PDT 1996
Article: 61839 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:33:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:33:44 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28265 alt.politics.white-power:41764 alt.revisionism:61839

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 17:33:52 GMT, [email protected] (CHRIST SODOMIZER)
wrote:

>[email protected] took a fat hit off a pipe and wrote:

>>When did we become net_fascists? Please explain, and provide evidence of
>>this bizarre assertion.

>Those who keep lists of people they disagree with, and actively seek
>to categorize and prosecute a level of traffic on the net for content
>grounds only, count as notorious fascists in the freemind camp.
>Sorry, but your organization has no progressive function and only
>seeks to further the concept of victimization that insures its own
>political power.

We live in a victim world. Victims are like children who need to be
taken care of, who can not take care of themselves. Of course the
grown up victims are like spoiled children who throw an tantrum when
they are not catered to.

We see it all the time here from the second and third and even fourth
hand victims here.

“You won’t do what I say, you Nazi.”

“You hate me.” (perhaps the most obvious)

“You won’t give me what I want.”

“It’s mine, it’s mine, it’s mine.”

“You won’t believe me!” (second most obvious)

Anyone who has seen the stereotype of the spoiled child can see it in
the holohuggers.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:04 PDT 1996
Article: 61840 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 06:13:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 11:13:03 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:15:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## Why does only one of the underground morgues have a gas-tight
>## door? If both were shelters, both would have them, right?
>
># What is this both you are talking about? Trying to sneak
># something new in back the back door again?

>Good old Giwer, still crazy after all these years.

>Matty my boy, nobody but you – “revisionist” or “non-revisionist” –
>has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
>underground cellars. Nobody.

>They are mentioned in the plans.

>They are clearly visible today.

>Give it up. Enough is enough.

Then why did your “calculation” use the size of the entire structure
rather than just of the room? Why did you agree with my calculation
which used the total size of the structure?

It is amazing how far you holohuggers will go in swearing to one thing
and then changing the facts to support a different story.

BTW: There were five rooms.

BTW2: I only started that
spreadsheet-which-is-really-not-a-wordprocessr after you gave the
approximate dimensions of the entire building and proceeded to use
them for the one and only calculation ever presented by an indentified
non-CS major.

Yes, enough is quite enough. And do not forget, the layout is on
Nizkor (the Holocaust’s Attic) and if you want to insist upon your
dimensions as the size of the room then the size of the entire
structure can be determined. You will be amazed at how huge it is.
It will rival several modern structures as the largest ever by that
construction technique.

What to go for broke?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:05 PDT 1996
Article: 61841 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #5
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:35:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:35:28 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

RUDOLF HESS

According to the report of Robert H. Jackson, (quoted by Judge Bert A.
Röling of the Tokyo Tribunal, writing in A Treatise on International
Criminal Law, vol. 1., pp. 590-608, edited by M. Cherif Bassiouni and
Ved. F. Nanda, Chas Thomas Publisher), the British, French, and
Soviets at Nuremberg did not wish to charge the Germans with
“aggressive war” at all, for obvious reasons. This accusation was
invented by the Americans forthe sole, express, and admitted purpose
of justifying American violations of international law.

These violations of international law would include the Lend Lease
Program; convoying and repairing British wartime ships for two years
prior to Pearl Harbor; allowing British ships to disguise themselves
as American while the U.S. was officially neutral; the illegal
declaration of a 300 mile limit; the occupation of Iceland; reporting
the movements of German and Italian submarines; bombing and ramming
attacks against German and Italian submarines beginning as early as
July of 1941, and other actions obviously indicative of “aggressive
war”.

Thus Hess was imprisoned for 47 years not only for actions which were
not illegal (attempting to stop the war, save millions of lives and
prevent the destruction of Europe and the British Empire), but for
“crimes” which were invented to cover the crimes of his accusers.

It was not alleged at Nuremberg that Germany had committed
“aggression” against Britain or France; the question of whether
Britain and France had, therefore, committed “aggression” against
Germany was left unanswered (IX 473 <<525>>; XVII 580 <<629>>).

Hess was accused of plotting with Hitler to take Britain out of the
war so that Hitler could attack Russia. His defense was that his
action was dictated by sincerity; that he knew nothing of any attack
on Russia.

Hess’s defense summation appears at XIX 353-396 <<390-437>>. From his
final (and only) statement (XXII 368-373 <<420-425>>) Hess appears to
have been a man who could be totally insane one moment, and
brilliantly lucid, sane and logical a moment later. It is possible
that this condition was acquired in Britain.

[Photograph captioned, “The wreckage of the plane that Rudolf Hess
flew to Britain in an attempt to stop the war, leading to his
conviction for crimes against peace.”]

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:06 PDT 1996
Article: 61843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,alt.online-service.compuserve
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:16:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:16:35 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:98402 alt.revisionism:61843 alt.politics.white-power:41765 soc.culture.europe:47473 soc.culture.german:84835 alt.online-service.compuserve:7436

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:42:18 GMT, [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC)
wrote:

>Unjust laws deserve to be broken, no ifs ands and buts. Germany’s
>internet access should be shut down for violating American law.

>International warrants should be issued for the leaders of the German,
>Singaporean and UK governments for violating the law of the USA. Equality!

Unjust laws are grounds for armed revolution.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:06 PDT 1996
Article: 61844 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 05:38:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 10:38:26 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:26:10 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>[About the euthanasia gas chambers]

About the rooms with the supposed fake showerheads whatever evil
purpose has been given to them by holohuggery.

># And of course these rooms have never been discovered. Nor have any
># blueprints for them.
>
>How do you know?

They have not been. Care to post them? A URL even? Stop trying to
fake it. You are not good at it.

># Anyone with the slightest idea of the volume of compressed
># gas knows this is a ridiculous assertion.

>More “scientific” rubbish from Matt Giwer, the same person who
>claimed HCN will not evaporate from Zyklon at 20 degrees…

How would you know if it could or not? The only thing for certain is
that you, as a holohugger, will lie about what I said if it suits your
purposes.

>What the hell are you babbling about?

It is difficult to get through to a proclaimed PhD in CS who thinks
spreadsheets have to do with word processing. You are a clear fraud.

>You put the people in the chamber. You release the CO into
>it. The people die. What is so difficult to understand?
>
>Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough into
>a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-per-
>million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
>containers, so what?

As I said, you have to know something about the subject first. As I
have no idea what education you might have it is difficult to know
where to start explaining it to you. But then, you would condemn it
no matter how true it is to the applause of your fellow holohuggers,
who are just as willing to lie as you are.

># And of course there is no public record of the “public clamor” that
># that is what we have come to expect from these stories.
>
>Another outright lie. Many letters of protest against the euthanasia
>murders were sent; some are posted here regularly.
>
>You’re a useless liar. No, wait, you’re not useless. You do serve
>a cause. But not the one you think you serve.

I see. You are saying that when the program was described by
holohuggers a few months ago as secret they holohuggers were lying.

You have merely given one more example of how things were secret and
not secret depending upon the needs of the particular story.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No “induction” holes here – kr2a.jpg (1/1)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 02:59:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 1278
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 8:00:33 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

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end

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61846 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flaming Kremas
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:49:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:49:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:30:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Before starting to respond to this one, let’s make one
>point clear. Mike Stein, not long ago, had a long conversation
>with a crematory operator. The fellow said that flames can
>definitely come out of a crematorium chimney; the phenomena
>even has a name: “a candle”.
>
>I guess you have missed that, Giwer? All this free time,
>and yet you miss so much.

I have never failed to notice that holohuggers are willing to lie to
promote their favorite huggery.

But I did read that one. What he left out was the damage done to the
chimney but that is neither surprising nor unexpected. Nor is that
fact I have have driven passed a particular crematorium hundreds of
times at all times of the day and night and have never seen such a
thing.

And of course I realize that you have never in your young life even
been near a working crematorium and therefore would never know.

And in addition, we have the admission of those who have described
those flames that they were lying, made it all up.

So just what is it you are trying to defend here but a known and
admitted lie about flames? Why don’t you defend the color of smoke
depending upon whether the Jews were fat or skinny while you are at
it?

Do you really think anyone is persuaded by this stupitidy any longer?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:10 PDT 1996
Article: 61848 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The seventh, eighth, and ninth confessions of Kurt Gerstein
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:52:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:52:41 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 09:55:04 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Gerstein confesses
>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:52:54 GMT
>>
>>
>> again and again and again
>>
>>4/26/45:
>> The date SS officer Kurt Gerstein’s first two (of at least six)
>>”confessions.”

>[snip]

> Then of course we have the confession to the Swedish diplomat, and to
>two friends of his – during the war, before any of the confessions that

I was unaware the Swedish government was involved in anything worthy
of a confession. What crime did they confess to? Please be specific
in your answer.

>Mr. Giwer is apparently trying to suggest are fishy simply because there
>are multiple versions.

Rather that they are different and mutually exclusive. Other than
that, only a holohugger could not find a problem with that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61849 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The 6 confessions of Kurt Gerstein
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:54:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:54:26 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 14:05:50 -0400, [email protected] (Charles R.L.
Power) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> I know it is impolite to bring this up. But what the hell. It is a
>>holiday weekend. Give you holohuggers something to come back to.

>What’s to come back to? That Kurt Gerstein may have known more than
>one language? Or that there may exist various translations of his
>words by other hands? That he, or others taking down his words or
>transcribing written records, may have used a typewriter? What is it
>about all this which strikes you as unbelievable, Matt?

>Did you ever get off your fat ass and look up Gerstein at you local
>library rather than depending on lying nazi-wannabe web pages for your
>”research”?

I was, as you know and would prefer to cover up this this crap, that
they are all different and mutually exclusive.

I can see why you want to cover that up in your usual attempt at
diversion.

If you do not know that is true, look it up. Do some research for a
change.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61852 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #12
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:50:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 139
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:50:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N’burg
From: [email protected] (Ehrlich606)
Date: 26 Jun 1996 20:08:02 -0400

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (SF924)
writes:

>
>I am a lawyer and I have a question for revisionists that I have not seen
>answered satisfactorily. This is my first post to this group so please
>excuse me if my comments seem elementary or I misspell names.
>
> At the Nuremburg Trial, 23 (I believe that was the number) high ranking
>Nazi officials were tried including Frank (the head of the general
>government in Poland), Kaltenbrunner, Seyss Inquart ansd Salcal (sic)
>Frank was also alleged to have participated in the Wannsee Conference of
>January, 1942 and the “alleged” exterminations were to take place on
>territory within his jurisdiction. .
>
>All of these men were represented by counsel. How come none of them, not
>even Goring the most defiant of the defendants, alleged that the gas
>chambers were a hoax or concoction of the allies in conjunction with
>Jewish interests. None of these men raised this as a defense. As I
>understand it, the defense of all the defendants was either lack of
>knowledge or fear of disobeying orders.
>
>As a lawyer, if my client was Frank, and I knew the gas chambers were a
>hoax, that fact of that hoax would have been my lead defense. I would
>have aggressively attacked all of the physical evidence as a forgery. I
>would have argued that Zyklon B couldn’t kill anyone. I would have
>challenged the photographs. I would have grilled Rudolph Hoess, the
>Auscwitz commandant on cross examination. In short, I would have
argued
>that “It is a hoax!! There were no gas chambers!!” After all, my client
>would have been on trial for his life.
>
>It is extremely telling that this defense was never raised.
>
>As a lawyer, I find it surprising that these principal defendants, on
>trial for their lives, with the most intimate knowledge of the facts and
>within one year or two of the alleged incidents, never even alleged the
>existence of this hoax. Not a single one of them.
>
>

This is an excellent post and you raise an excellent question. The
fact
of the matter is that the defendants generally believed the stories.
(Ref.
GM Gilbert, *Nuremberg Diary*

The introduction of extermination evidence came in several phases.
First,
there was the showing of the atrocity film, 11/29/45. (p. 45) The
defendants were shocked, outraged, and claimed no knowledge. On
12/14/45,
there was testimony and documents — including the Stroop Report — on
extermination in Poland. Again, there was generally no questioning of
the
truth of this evidence (which included the *steaming* to death
evidence.)
(p. 69f) In January, there was evidence of mass shootings. No one
questioned it then, and no one does now. When the Russians presented
their case, 2/8/46, there was a change in mood. Namely, skepticism.
(p.
135ff)

At one point, Gilbert, conversing with Goering said, *You can’t shrug
off
6 million murders!* — To which Goering responded, *Well, I doubt if
it
was 6 million, but as I have always said, it is sufficient if only 5
per
cent of it is true …*

The reaction to the _Soviet_ atrocity film was markedly different.
Goering, for one, considered it phony, with the parts of the corpses
probably played by German soldiers. (p. 162.)

February 27 and 28 gave the balance of Soviet testimony, namely, on
Auschwitz and Treblinka. (p. 174ff) There is a revealing episode
here.
During a break, Dr. Kranzbuhler, Doenitz’ attorney, asked him, *Didn’t
_anybody_ know _anything_ about _any_ of these things?*
Doentiz
shook his head and shrugged sadly. Goering turned around, *Of course
not
….*

On April 15 there was a climax of sorts when Rudolf Hoess testified.
(p.
264ff) There was initial disbelief, but no one seems to have thought
that
he might not be telling the truth. Of course, at that time, Hoess
testified to the gassing of 2.5 million.

To sum up, the defendants generally believed the testimony. But there
was
no point in cross examining because no one at Nuremberg was convicted
on
the basis of atrocity stories alone. No one hanged because of
Auschwitz.
As a matter of fact, Hoess was only at Nuremberg to testify in
Kaltenbrunner’s defense. Bad move.

The defendants were shown the same film of inmates dead of disease and
malnutrition, and then accepted the rest without question. As have
most
of us, most of the time. Because, in the final analysis, Goering was
right. Even if only 5% were true….

As Bradley F. Smith points out, *Reaching Judgment at Nuremberg*, the
German lawyers seemed content on focussing on rebutting the accusation
of
the Katyn Forest massacre. (p. 107)

One final point. The defendants in all of these trials were out to
save
their lives. They were subject to a number of discovery restrictions
which
would not apply in a normal case. They could cross examine witnesses,
but
they could not dispute every affidavit.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:12 PDT 1996
Article: 61856 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steamed alive or Are Lobsters Kosher?
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:40:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:40:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 14:36:24 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:11:22 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Not close inded! Keren bullshits again
>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT
>>
>> Hey, Keren! Where is your story about the Polish “spies” not getting
>>close this time?

>(Polish Government charges snipped)

>Well, well, the vaunted 163 IQ now now asks a question that for 163 IQ
>should be obvious to it. I wonder if the 163 IQ is on a deliberate
>path of brain cell reduction through the use of alcohol??

>I laugh at this fraud.

Then tell Nizkor to stop carrying it, fool.

>

> The Nizkor Project:
> Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
> |
> Honoring the memory of Pooh.bah
> |
> Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
> European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
> Nizkor Web: https://nizkor.org/

The unorganized, dust covered attic of the Holocaust.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:13 PDT 1996
Article: 61857 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ecologically minded SS
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:42:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:42:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:39:00 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[From Morgen’s testimony]

># … When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas
># was let into the room. As soon as death had set in, the
># ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again,
># the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies.
># By means of a special procedure… they were burned in the open
> ^^^
># air without the use of fuel.”

>Aha, that sneaky little devil. Once again, note how he carefully
>edited out the part in which Morgen states that the procedure was
>introduced by Wirth; therefore, he most probably was talking
>about burning the corpses using large amounts of wood, which
>was the method introduced in the camps of which Wirth was
>in charge.

>A smart little devil, that Giwer. Not smart enough to find a
>job, though…

I forgot that holohuggers are so stupid as to believe that wood is not
fuel. But then I have great difficultly keeping in mind the stupidity
of the holohuggers.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:14 PDT 1996
Article: 61858 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 05:48:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 10:48:34 PM PDT 1996
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On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 20:34:33 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>Jamie McCarthy wrote:

>> And don’t forget — according to Greg Raven, this speech doesn’t count
>> as evidence for the Holocaust, because Himmler doesn’t say anything
>> about gas chambers!

>[email protected] wrote:

>> I don’t deny there was a Holocaust,

>Nonsense. You define the Holocaust as the murder of six million Jews as
>a central act of state by the Nazis during the Second World War, many in
>gas chambers. You deny the figure of six million, you deny that there
>was a Nazi program, and you deny that there were any gas chambers.

5.2 million even by the most huggery of the holos.

>You deny precisely what you define. You deny the Holocaust.

Have you found any physical evidence for it yet? The world is
waiting.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61860 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Again in the Forest
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:34:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:34:12 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 08:58:46 -0700, [email protected] (Nizkor Canada) wrote:

>Archive/File: holocaust/poland wlodawa.014
>Last-modified: 1993/04/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> Transcribed by [email protected]

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> AGAIN IN THE FOREST
> Eisik Rothenberg

>When we were deep in the forest three gazelles jumped in front of us
>”this is a good sign” I said “We will succeed” and we rushed on.

Gazelles, a herd of which were imported by the Afrika Corp.

Perhaps they were really unicorns in disguise.

Only a holohugger is gullible enough …

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61863 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Interpretation of the incomprehensible
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:36:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:36:55 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 15:14:45 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> L.A.Times 8/31/96

> “New Translation of Jewish Holy Book Wins Wide Praise”

> Worship: Rabbis’
>reinterpretation of ancient
>Hebrew text makes the
>haftarah text more meaningful
>to the average person,
>religious leaders say.

> Until now, there has never been a modern English translation and
>commentary of the haftarah, the book of prophets that helps form the
>core of the Jewish identity.
> Based on nearly 3,000 year old teachings, and written 2,200 years
>ago after the Syrians banned the Jewish Bible, or Torah, the haftarah
>is read at weekly Sabbath services and forms the core of the bar and
>bat mitzvah ceremonies celebrating Jewish youths’ initiation to
>adulthood.
> But the haftarah has remained incomprehensible to most American
>Jews. “The average Jew who goes to synagogue today to hear someone
>read the haftarah is totally at a loss,” said Rabbi W. Gunther Plaut
>of Holy Blossom Temple in Toronto. “The text is not understandable, so
>they listen to their neighbor talking”.
> To remedy that, Plaut and New York Rabbi Chaim Stern have
>collaborated on a newly released modern translation of the holy book,
>’Haftarah Commentary'”.

> So it appears that the “core of the Jewish identity” has been
>based on something that has been ” incomprehensible”, “not
>understandable” and has put any listeners “totally at a loss” as to
>what is being read.

> Whatever this ancient material has, which was written back when
>the world was thought to be flat, we can see that the single lone
>rabbi will be able to have liberal latitude with any
>”reinterpretation”.
>
> The article mentions that the new 928 page reinterpretation
>illustrates the haftarah “85 prophetic writings with references to a
>variety of historic figures and academic disciplines, from William
>Shakespeare to Jonathan Swift to modern archeology”.

> Perhaps the reinterpretation will have implications that these
>figures were Jewish or were inspired by Jewish writings, as has been
>the case with other claims from the Jewish community.

> Maybe this is the material that inspired Lewis Carroll to write
>of the White Rabbit that talks backwards and Jabberwocky.
>
> Maybe this is the primordial source from which “chutzpa”
>originated.

Superstitious twits.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:16 PDT 1996
Article: 61864 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s little boy mind
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:56:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:56:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 17:23:48 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> For those of you are new to alt.revisionism, check out any post
>by McVay.
> McVay is the Web-master of Nizkor, the “The Holocaust Educational
>Resource”.
> Aside from his postings from his archives, he never can engage in
>any argument from his own thinking, and more so than that, he expends
>most of his energy in engaging in little “spam” tit for tats with
>others. Check it out. See if you can make any sense out of his little
>posts.

And he starts mailbombs and then accuses others of resonding to them.
He has no integrity besides working for DOD.

And for those who have claimed there is no connection, his latest
posts have been from

oneb.nizkor.bc.ca

Gee, there is no connection wtih DOD and yet his address is now the
milnet address. How did that happen?

Now who were those LIARS who were claiming it was someone else? a
different kmcvay?

And who was that Ken McVay who claimed there was no connection but now
uses that address?

And now that the connection between McVay (McVeigh?) and DOD is out in
the open, just what other connections are there? Yes, DOD and CIA are
so close that they exchange senior personal regularly.

But then of course maybe McVay is an -ility puke. But then how can an
-illity puke use a milnet address for personal use without being in
violation of the Federal Acquisition Regulations? Answer: He can
not. It is clearly improper in the form of misappropriation of funds
unless of course DOD has permitted this personal use.

And if they have, why?

DOD has no known interest in supporting anyone’s personal views of
anything in history. DOD has no known interest in the holocaust.

Yet now oneb (1B Systems) is the carrier of Nizkor.

Looks like I/LindaT was right from the beginning.

And just look at the co-websters putting their personal net worth on
the line for a DOD front operation.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:17 PDT 1996
Article: 61868 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!csulb.edu!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 06:51:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 11:51:42 PM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:84481 alt.revisionism:61868

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 12:11:47 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>*Yes, I laugh at the lying fool that claims hew was gasse six times and
>*lived just like I laugh at you and all the other fools who believe
>*such stories.

>How do you know he was lying? Were you there? How do you know I believe
>such stories? I’ve never heard it before. I have been supplied with no
>documentation, no cites, no proof. Just your word, which means nothing to
>me.

As the holohuggers would say, let me gas you just once and see what
happens. And then they would laugh at you for not believing their
wild fantasies. So let me offer to gas you six times and see if you
are still alive to tell about it.

As for my source, it is on Nizkor, so it must be true. Go look for
it. It will keep you occupied.

And BTW, you mean nothing to me either.

>*Yes, I laugh at gullible fools like you. You are very, very
>*uneducated or simply very, very stupid. Your choice.

>Give me your educational beackground. Show me your PhD in history. Tell
>me about the places you’ve studied and with whom you’ve studied.

My education and work experience have been posted many times. Look it
up.

>It’s not gullibility… it’s called research and discovering fact upon
>fact, eyewitness testimony upon eyewitness testimony (from nazis and
>Survivors), carefully documented proof upon carefully documented proof.
>Hitler would be very upset to know you’re denying what he took such pains
>to document for all the world to see.

IF you are telling the truth about your PhD THEN you know that
eyewitness testimony does not constitute history. If you think it
does then you hold all sorts of fabulous things in fact are historic
truth.

And if you had applied your talents to the holocaust you would know
there there at most three (3) out of tens of thousands of documents
that may, if you know the conclusion you want to find, refer to
gassing.

You either know nothing about history or nothing about the gassing
documentation. You can not have it both ways.

>You’re a hypocrite, a liar and an insult to the human race. If your
>”insults” were meant to offend me, they merely offered me a well-needed
>chuckle. Now shoo.

If you know anything about the holocaust supporting information then
you know there is no physical evidence of mass extermination of Jews
or anyone else.

Nothing you can do but invent evidence like a holohugger can change
that.

>* OK, you are very, very stupid.
>
>O.K…. you are 12 years old.

Obvious a 12 year old knows more than your PhD. Diploma mill? Or
like Keren, a fraud?

>* I have read such stories as have you. And because you have read such
>*stories you in fact believe in ritual, satanic child abuse and the
>*appearance of the Satan himself at the ceremonies.

>I do? And please tell me… how on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Because you believe eyewitnesses in the absense of physical evidence.
You can not pick and choose without a priori criteria for the
selection. So what makes gassing witnesses who report the impossible
more credible than ritual, satanic child abuse witnesses who report
the impossible?

>It is not the reading of such stories that has convinced me of the reality
>of improved memory over time. It is the studying of cases, the
>converstaions with experts, the examination of personal testimony that has
>lead me to the conclusion that as an individual becomes more and more
>removed from a situation, that individual’s memory improves as the trauma
>can be better handled. It’s a fact. Perhaps actually obtaining an
>education on your part would help you with your little lying problem.

You have been talking with charlatans not experts. You would do well
to consult other than self-serving liars.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:17 PDT 1996
Article: 61869 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #7
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:37:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 119
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:37:09 AM PDT 1996
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JAPANESE WAR CRIMES TRIALS

While Germans were being convicted of making human “soap” (taken
seriously in the seventh edition of Oppenheim and Lauterpacht’s
prestigious International Law, vol. II, p. 450) Japanese defendants
were being convicted of making human “soup” in repeated trials.

This is not a misprint; it was considered a “proven fact” in 1948 – a
“fact” proven in numerous “trials” – that the Japanese are a race of
habitual cannibals who were forbidden upon pain of death from
devouring the corpses of their own dead, but who were officially
encouraged to eat Americans. Americans were served fried, or as soup;
people were eaten when other food was available. Thus, the Japanese
engage in cannibalism out of choice rather than necessity. Favourite
human body parts for culinary purposes are liver, pancreas and gall
bladder; Chinese are swallowed in pill form!

Among the “trials” in which this was “proven” are U.S. Tachibana
Yochio and 13 others, Mariana Islands, 2nd-15th August, 1946;
Commonwealth of Australia vs. Tazaki Takehiko, Wewak, 30th November
1945; Commonwealth of Australia v. Tomiyasu Tisato, Rabaul, 2nd April
1946; and the most complex war crimes trial in history, the
International Military Tribunal for the Far East (IMTFE) personally
supervised by Douglas McArthur, which lasted from May 1946 until
December 1948 (see The Tokyo Judgment, vol. 1, pp. 409-410, University
of Amsterdam Press 1977, pp. 49,674-5 of mimeographed transcript.

The 25 defendants who survived trial were all convicted; 7 were
hanged.

Their crimes included:

Planning, initiation and waging “aggressive war” against the Soviet
Union (the Soviet Union attacked Japan two days after Hiroshima in
violation of a Non-Agression Pact; on this same day the London
Agreement was signed, pursuant to which the Nuremberg Trial was held);
planning, initiation, and waging “aggressive war” against France
(France is in Europe); illegal sea blockade and indiscriminate
population bombing (case against Shimada), that is, the actions of the
British in Europe would have been illegal if committed by the
Japanese; trial of war criminals before a military tribunal (case
against Hata and Tojo; see also U.S. vs. Sawada, probably the most
disgusting and hypocritical accusation of all; the victims were 7
Americans guilty of participating in the fire-bombing of Tokyo in
which 80,000 women and children were burned to death) and cannibalism.
It was not alleged that the defendants ate anyone personally.

The evidence included:

* Soviet War Crimes Reports * Chinese War Crimes Reports * Soviet
reports based on Japanese documents not attached to the reports *
Summaries of Japanese military aggression in China (written by the
Chinese) * 317 Judge Advocate General War Crimes Reports (total
length: 14,618 pages) “quoting” “captured” Japanese documents,
diaries, cannibalism confessions, mass murder orders, orders to gas
P.O.W.s on remote South Sea islands, etc. (“captured documents” not
attached to reports; proof of authenticity not required) * affidavits
of Japanese soldiers imprisoned in Siberia * affidavits of Japanese
referring to Japs as the ‘enemy’ * affidavits of Red Army Officers *
newspaper clippings (admissable evidence for the prosecution, but not
usually for the defense; i.e., events in China were proven by quoting
the Chicago Daily Tribune, the New Orleans Times- Picayune, the
Sacrimento Herald, Oakland Tribune, New York Herald, New York Times,
Christian Science Monitor, etc. * the “affidavit” of Marquis Takugawa
(written in English and not read to him in Japanese) * the statements
of Okawa (Okawa was declared insane and confined to a lunatic asylum,
but his statements were used in evidence) * the testimony of Tanaka (a
professional witness paid by the Americans; Okawa, when drunk, has
confessed everything to Tanaka; Tanaka ‘The Monster’ Ryukichi was
supposedly responsible for millions of atrocities but was not tried,
instead he moved freely about Japan) * Kido’s diary (titbits of gossip
about everybody Kido didn’t like) * Harada’s Memoirs (Harada had
suffered a stroke, so his dictation was incomprehensible; how well he
could remember and what he meant to say were anybody’s guess; the
translations were a guess; many different “copies” had been
“corrected” by a variety of people other than the person to whom he
had dictated; added to which he had a reputation for telling lies).

The Prosecution’s Answer to Defense Arguments at the end of the trial
refutes all defensive evidence, stating that documents (translations
of excerpts “copies” without proof of issuance or signature) are the
best witnesses. If prosecution and defense both quote a document,
defense have quoted out of context, but never the prosecution. Hearsay
has probative value; testimony of defense witnesses has no probative
value; cross- examination is a waste of time.

Five of the 11 judges – William Webb of Australia, Delfin Jaranilla of
the Philippines, and Bert. A. Röling of the Netherlands, Henri
Bernhard of France, and R.B. Pal of India – dissented. Pal wrote a
famous 700 page dissentient opinion in which he called the prosecution
atrocity evidence “mostly worthless”, remarking sarcastically that he
hoped one of the documents was in Japanese.

A peculiarity of war crimes trials is that far from “proving”
anything, they all contradict each other. It was held at Tokyo that
the Chinese had a “right” to violate “unfair” treaties, and that
Japanese efforts to enforce such treaties – because they were “unfair”
– constituted “aggression”.

When the atomic bombs were dropped, Shigemitsu had been attempting to
negotiate a surrender for nearly 11 months, beginning on September 14,
1944. This of course became another “crime” – “prolonging the war
through negotiation”.

“Proof” of Japanese cannibal activity may be found in JAG Report 317,
pp. 12,467-8 of mimeographed transcript; Exhibits 1446 and 1447, pp.
12,576-7; Exhibit 1873, pp. 14, 129-30, and Exhibits 2056 and 2056A
and B, pp. 15,032- 42.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:18 PDT 1996
Article: 61870 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #6
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:36:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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RUDOLF HÖSS

Rudolf Höss was the Auschwitz commandant whose “confessions” have
“proven” that Hitler gassed six million Jews (or five million, the
figure usually used at Nuremberg). His best-known “confession” is the
one quoted by William L. Shirer on pages 968-969 of The Rise and Fall
of the Third Reich.

This document, Document 3868-PS, should be seen in its context. The ex
parte written “statement” or affidavit (i.e., prepared in the presence
of only one of the parties) was a principal prosecutor’s tool in the
witchcraft trials of the Middle Ages, only to disappear for several
centuries, then reappear in Communist show trials and war crimes
trials.

These documents violate many standard rules of legal procedure, such
as the rule against asking leading questions, the rule against prior
consistent statements (i.e., the multiplication of evidence by
repetition; normally, such statements are only admissible when they
contradict other statements made later), the right to confront and
cross-examine one’s accuser, and the privilege against
self-incrimination. Nor would the “evidence” in war crime trials be
admissable in a court martial. Even in 1946, the introduction of
depositions by the prosecution in capital cases before a court martial
was forbidden by Article 25 of the US Articles of War. Article 38
required the use of standard Federal rules of evidence.

At Nuremberg, there was never the slightest pretense that Höss wrote
this document. If that had been the case, it would not state, “I
understand English as it is written above”, but rather, “I have
written this statement myself”. In the minor trials (Hadamar,
Natzweiler, etc.) it is common to find confessions written entirely in
the handwriting of the interrogator, in English, with a final
statement in the prisoners handwriting, in German, stating that these
are his statements and that he is satisfied with the translation into
English!

Another formula occurs on page 57 of the Hadamar volume of Sir David
Maxwell-Fyfe’s book, War Crimes Trials, “I certify that the above has
been read to me in German, my native tongue” (in English).

The pretense was that the prisoner was interrogated through an
interpreter in question and answer form, after which the questions
were deleted, and the answers were run together in the form of an
affidavit, usually written by a different person from the interrogator
who conducted the questioning.

At Belsen, for example, every affidavit was written by one officer,
Major Smallwood. In this trial, a combination Auschwitz-Belsen trial,
the court- appointed British and free Polish defense team demolished
the prosecution case – including the “selections for mass gassings” –
but were overruled on the grounds that involuntary statements and oral
and written hearsay were admissable, “not to convict the innocent, but
to convict the guilty” (Law Reports of Trials of War Criminals, Vol.
II. (This thin volume must be read in its entirety.))

After the affidavit was prepared by the officer who did nothing but
write affidavits, it was presented in its finished form to the
prisoner for signature. If it was not signed, it was introduced into
evidence anyway. Objections went to “weight”, in the jargon of war
crimes proceedings, rather than to “admissibility”.

An example of an unsigned affidavit by Rudolf Höss is Document NO-
4498-B. The B means that this document is a “translation” with
typewritten signature of an “original” document, Document NO-4498-A,
written in Polish, and allegedly signed by Höss. There is also a
Document NO-4498-C, in English.

Affidavits A and C are not attached to Affidavit B, the “true copy”.

Document 3868-PS, quoted by Shirer, was signed in English, 3 times,
but not in the “translation” into German. The document contains a
minor change initialled by Höss, with a small “h”, and an entire
sentence written entirely in the interrogator’s handwriting (compare
capital “W”s) not initialled by Höss. The initial, of course, is there
to “prove” that he has “read and corrected” the document. The content
of this handwritten sentence is refuted elsewhere (XXI 529 <<584>>).

When the affidavit was presented to the prisoner, it was sometimes
corrected extensively, leading to two or more versions of the same
document. In these cases, the longer ones are “quoted”, and the
shorter ones are “lost”. An example of this practice is Document
948-949, the affidavit of Dr. Wilhelm Jäger (See Albert Speer.)

Jäger testified that he signed 3 or 4 copies of the same document, a
much shorter one. The shorter one was originally presented against the
elder Krupp, before charges against him were dropped. In this
document, the longer one, the translation into English is dated prior
to the signature date on the “original”. Jäger’s court appearance was
an unmitigated disaster, but that is forgotten (XV 264-283
<<291-312>>).

If the affiant appeared to testify, he invariably contradicted the
affidavit, but contradictions are ignored. Other affidavit signers
whose court appearances were catastrophic include General Westhoff,
who contradicted his unsworn “statement” 27 times (XI 155-189
<<176-212>>); and a “germ warfare witness”, Schreiber (XXI 547-562
<<603-620>>); Paul Schmidt’s affidavit (Schmidt was Hitler’s
interpreter), Document 3308-PS – presented to him for signature when
he was too sick to read it carefully – was partially repudiated by him
(X 222 <<252>>), but used in evidence against Von Neurath, despite
Schmidt’s repudiation (XVI 381 <<420-421>> XVII 40-41 <<49-50>>).
Ernst Sauckel signed an affidavit written prior to his arrival at
Nuremberg (XV 64-68 <<76-80>>) and signed under duress (his wife and
10 children were to be handed over to the Poles or Russians).

Since the affiants almost never (if ever) wrote their own
“statements”, it is common to find identical or nearly identical
phrases or even entire paragraphs occurring in different documents,
even when they have been prepared on different days by supposedly
different people; for example, affidavits 3 and 5 of Blaskovitz and
Halder (Exhibits 536-US and 537-US); Documents USSR-471 and USSR-472
and 473; and Documents USSR-264 and 272 (human soap affidavits).

Other affidavits signed by Höss include Document NO-1210, in which the
English was written first, with extensive interpolations, additions
andcorrections, including 2 different first drafts of page 4, and 2
different first drafts of page 5, then translated into German and
signed by Höss. That is, the “translation” is the “original”, and the
“original” is the “translation”.

Document 749(b)D was “translated orally” into German from English for
Höss prior to signature. The signature is faint to the point of
illegibility, indicating possible ill health, fatigue or torture. The
torture has been described by Rupert Butler in Legions of Death
(Hamlyn Paperbacks)

The “confession” quoted by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe on April Fool’s Day,
April 1, 1946, in which Höss “confessed” to killing 4 million Jews (X
389 <<439-440>>), instead of the usual 2.5 million of April 5, 1946,
has either never existed or has gotten “lost”.

It is not true that Höss’s court appearance at Nuremberg consisted
chiefly of assenting to his affidavit; this is true only of his
cross-examination by Col. John Amen of the U.S. Army.

Instead, Höss appeared to testify, and, as usual, contradicted his
affidavit and himself as much as possible (XI 396-422 <<438-466>>).

For example, where the affidavit states (XI 416 <<460>>) “we knew when
the people were dead because their screaming stopped”, (a crudely
obvious toxicological impossibility), his oral testimony claims (XI
401 <<443>>, in response to grossly improper leading questions posed
by Kaltenbrunner’s “defense attorney”), that the people became
unconscious; leaving unsolved the problem of just how he knew when
they were, in fact, dead. He forgot to mention that killing insects
with Zyklon took two days, a fact he mentioned elsewhere (Document
NO-036, p. 3, German text, answer to Question 25, and Kommandant in
Auschwitz, p. 155).

With such a slow-acting poison, the people would suffocate first.

Höss claimed that the order to kill the Jews of Europe was given
orally (XI 398 <<440>>), but that orders to keep the killings secret
were given in writing (XI 400 <<442>>. He claimed that persons were
cremated in pits at Auschwitz, a notorious swamp (XI 420 <<464>>), and
that gold teeth were melted down on the spot (XI 417 <<460>>), but an
evacuation of the concentration camps to avoid capture would have led
to unnecessary deaths (XI 407 <<449-450>>), and, almost, that there
was no killing program at all! This is worth quoting:

“Until the outbreak of war in 1939, the situation in the camps
regarding feeding, accomodation, and treatment of detainees, was the
same as in any other prison or penitentiary in the Reich. The
detainees were treated strictly, yes, but methodical beatings or
ill-treatment were outof the question. The Reichsfuhrer gave frequent
warnings that every SS man who laid violent hands on a detainee would
be punished; and quite often SS men who did ill-treat detainees were
punished. Feeding and accomodation at that time were in every respect
put on the same basis as that of other prioners under legal
administration. The accomodation in the camps during those years was
still normal because the mass influxes at the outbreak of and during
the war had as yet not taken place. When the war started and when mass
deliveries of political detainees arrived, and, later on, when
detainees, who were members of resistence movements, arrived from the
occupied territories, the construction of buildings and the extensions
of the camps could no longer keep up with the number of detainees who
arrived. During the first years of the war this problem could still be
overcome by improvising measures; but, later, due to the exigencies of
the war, this was no longer possible, since there were practically no
building materials any longer at our disposal” – (Note: the bodies are
supposed to have been burnt using wood for fuel.) – . . . This led to
a situation where detainees in the camps no longer had sufficient
powers of resistence against the ensuing plagues and epidemics . . .
the aim wasn’t to have as many dead as possible or to destroy as many
detainees as possible. The Reichsfuhrer was constantly concerned with
the problems of engaging all forces possible in the armament industry
. . These so-called ill- treatments and torturing in concentration
camps, stories of which were spread everywhere amongst the people, and
particularly by detainees who were liberated by the occupying armies,
were not, as assumed, inflicted methodically, but by individual
leaders, sub-leaders, and men who laid violent hands on them . . . If
in any way such a matter was brought to my notice, the perpetrator
was, of course, immediately relieved of his post or transferred
somewhere else. So that, even if he wasn’t punished because there
wasn’t evidence to prove his guilt, he was taken away and given
another position . . .

“The catastrophic situation at the end of the war was due to the fact
that as a result of the destruction of railways and of the continuous
bombings of the industrial works, it was no longer possible to
properly care for these masses, for example, at Auschwitz, with its
140,000 detainees. Improvised measures, truck columns, and everything
else tried by the commandants to improve the situation, were of little
or no avail. The number of sick became immense. There were next to no
medical supplies; plagues raged everywhere. Detainees who were capable
of work were used continuously by order of the Reichsfuhrer, even
half-sick people had to be used wherever possible in industry. As a
result, every bit of space in the concentration camps which could
possibly be used for lodging was filled with sick and dying detainees
. .

“At the end of the war, there were still thirteen concentration camps.
All the other points which are marked here on the map means so-called
labour camps attached to the armament factories situated there . . .

“If any ill-treatment of detainees by guards occurred – I myself have
never observed any – then this was possible only to a very small
degree, since all officers in charge of the camps took care that as
few SS men as possible had immediate contact with the inmates, because
in the course of the years the guard personnel had deteriorated to
such an extent that the former standards could no longer be maintained
.. . .

“We had thousands of guards who could hardly speak German, who came
>from all leading countries of the world as volunteers and joined these
units; or we had elder men, between 50 and 60, who lacked all interest
in their work, so that a camp commandant had to take care continuously
that these men fulfilled even the lowest requirements of their duties.
Furthermore, it is obvious that there were elements among them who
would ill-treat detainees, but this ill-treatment was never tolerated.
Furthermore, it was impossible to have these masses of people working
or when in the camp directed by SS men, so that everywhere detainees
had to be engaged to give instructions to the detainees and set them
to work, and who almost exclusively had the administration of the
inner camp in their hands. Of course, a great deal of ill-treatment
occured which couldn’t be avoided, because at night there was hardly
any member of the SS in the camps. Only in specific cases were the SS
men allowed to enter the camp, so that the detainees were more or less
exposed to the detainee supervisors.”

Question (by defense attorney for the SS, Dr. Babel):

“You have already mentioned regulations which existed for the guards,
but there was also a standing order in all the camps. In this camp
order there were laid down the punishments for detainees who violated
the camp rules. What punishments were these?”

Answer:

“First of all, transfer to a “penal company” (Strafkompanie), that is
to say, harder work, and their accomodation restricted; next,
detention in the cell block, detention in a dark cell; and in very
serious cases, chaining or strapping. Punishment by ‘strapping’
(Anbinden) was prohibited in the year 1942 or 1943, I can’t say
exactly when, by the Reichsfuhrer. Then there was the punishment of
standing to attention during a long period at the entrance to the camp
(Strafstehen), and finally punishment by beating.

“However, this punishment of beating could not be decreed by any
commandant independently. He could apply for it.”

– Oral testimony of Rudolf Höss, 15 April 1946 (XI 403-411
<<445-454>>).

Höss’s motivation appears to have been to protect his wife and 3
children, and to save the lives of others by testifying that only 60
people knew of the mass killings. Höss attempted to save Kaltenbrunner
by implicating Eichmann and Pohl, who had not yet been apprehended.
(For a similar case, see Heisig’s affidavit implicating Raeder, XIII
460-461 <<509-510>>).

Höss appeared as a “defense witness”, and his cross-examination by the
prosecution was cut short by the prosecution itself (XI 418-419 <<461- 462>>). Perhaps they were afraid he would spill the beans.

Höss’s famous “autobiography” Kommandant in Auschwitz, probably
prepared in question and answer from through interrogation like a
gigantic “affidavit”, then written up to be copied in his handwriting,
is not much better. In this book, German text, cremation fires were
visible for miles (p. 159). Everyone in the area knew of the
exterminations (p. 159) the victims knew they were going to be gassed
(pp. 110, 111, 125), but it was possible to fool them (pp. 123-124;
Document 3868-PS), and his family never knew a thing (pp. 129-130).
Höss was a chronic drunkard who “confessed” these things when he had
been drinking (p. 95) or was being tortured (p. 145).

It is not true that, according to p. 126 of this text, bodies were
removed from gas chambers by Kapos eating and smoking and/or not
wearing gas masks; the text does not say that. Robert Faurisson has
proven that Höss did make this assertion, but elsewhere, during an
“interrogation”.

The Polish “translation” of this book, published prior to the
publication of the German “original text”, seems to agree with the
German text, except that place names and dates are missing, indicating
that the Polish was probably written first, these details being
inserted later in the German translation.

The uncut, unexpurgated complete writings of Rudolf Höss(?) (in
Polish) are available through international library loan (Wspomnienia
Rudolfa Hössa, Komendanta Obozu Oswiecimskiego).

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:19 PDT 1996
Article: 61875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 960901: Germany attacks the Zundelsite again!
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:45:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 184
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2797 alt.revisionism:61875

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 12:46:35 -0700, [email protected] (E.
Zundel Repost) wrote:

>The Zundelgrams are posted to alt.fan.ernst-zundel and alt.revisionism
>daily, unedited. The opinions expressed do not represent the views of the
>poster, who is not the author. See X-Headers for relevant URLs. A good
>place to start is https://nizkor.org/features/ or, if you’re in Europe,
>http://www1.de.nizkor.org/nizkor/

>Please note that due to the shutdown of the alpha remailer, replies to the
>ZGram posting address have not worked for some time. The ZGrams will be
>posted from a new address “soon.” The official announcement of the change
>will be signed with the PGP key originally established for
>[email protected] For the moment, public posting to
>alt.fan.ernst-zundel, encrypted in the ezundel-repost key if need be, is
>the only contact method supported.

>———— BEGIN ZUNDELGRAM MESSAGE ————

>Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

>This one must take the cake! Here comes the newest wrinkle:

>Now it turns out, to no one’s great surprise, that the government of
>Germany has targeted SPECIFIC German-language documents we posted on the
>Zundelsite as “endangering Germany’s youth”! And this is done by
>government decree called “indizieren.” –

>”Indizieren” is the equivalent of what the Catholic Church practiced for
>1,500 years – putting books they did not like on an “index” and thereby
>making it impossible to sell, distribute or advertise them legally.

>Without exception, and not too surprisingly, these “indexed” Zundelsite
>documents are Holocaust-related – and just perusing them might make you
>think that they were chosen not by content so much as by title. Not one of
>them, by the way, is a book or even a booklet. They are articles or
>pamphlets – and no one is selling them off our website.

>The titles are: (in English translation)

>The Leuchter Report – End of a Myth
>Auschwitz: Myths and Facts
>Inside the Auschwitz Gas Chambers
>A Prominent False Witness: Elie Wiesel
>What Is Holocaust Denial?
>Pressac’s New Auschwitz-Book
>The Making of a Holocaust Revisionist
>”Judicial Notice of Unnassailable Fact” – Or Justice?

>Once again it is Ernst Zundel and his bedeviled Zundelsite pioneering
>cyberspace rules dramatically by helping set the boundaries by which the
>Internet will be governed and directed in the future.

>And isn’t it ironic that here you have a “Neo-Nazi”, reviled and demonized
>for decades, who helps to keep the “free world” free? It wouldn’t be the
>first time. Remember the Supreme Court decision in the Zundel case in
>1992? It gave Canada more rights of freedom of expression than it had ever
>had before – while the HoloHucksters were gnashing their teeth!

>Now given the above, several thoughts come to mind:

>1. Only the German version of these articles was targeted. We have
>some of the same articles in English. Does that mean that Germans who
>would like to read these documents would criminalize themselves reading
>them in German but not in English – or Spanish, French, Italian or Swahili?

>2. The government has no obligation to let an individual or
>organization know which documents are “dangerous” or not. Once a document
>or book is “indiziert,” it is up to the individual to divine that. Someone
>in the United States – where, so we hope, freedom still reigns – who
>innocently copies and posts one of our documents will not know that he is
>”endangering” Germany’s youth. Inquiring minds will want to know – don’t
>you think? He or she will have no way of knowing that people can go to
>prison for downloading something from his or her website.

Yes, the index. The infamous (pardon my Latin) Index Librorum
Prohibatorum. The Index of Prohibited Books which has been ridiculed
and hated for centuries. And yet Germany does the same thing with the
approval of holohuggers everywhere.

It is obvious that the German government does not consider its people
mature enough to deal with such material. As such, we need not ask
“Where have all the Nazis gone?” as they are alive and well and living
in Germany.

Suppression of the basic right of communication in any form is
justification for violent revolution. It is only prudence that
dictates a first attempt at a nonviolent attempt first. And perhaps
even a second or third attempt.

But never is the violent overthrow of such a government abnegated by
mere attempts. There is no requirement to put up with such
limitations upon fundamental human rights in any manner or at any
time.

>3. What would happen if, let’s say, some 500 websites copied and
>posted a certain document all over the world – just to spit in the face of
>an idiotic law sprung from a repressive medieval mindset and make a stand
>for freedom? Would the government of Germany hunt and haunt all these
>different websites globally? Can you imagine the paperwork and cost to the
>taxpayers of Germany? The loss of face for doing something that blatant to
>protect the political and monetary interests of the Shrill Minority?

And of course violence on the internet can be just as pervasive and
equally powerful if not more so than physical violence. The obvious
thing to do at first and as a warning, it to interfere with the
paychecks of government employees. And as a second thought, to not
harm the employees, multiply their checks by ten or a hundred. If you
are into subtilty make it by 10%. That gives them plausible
deniability when they cash them.

There is no question that any government suppressing the freedom of
expression in any form needs be, will be and can be brought down in
cyuberspace. But should that fail, there it the cartridge box. No
such government has the right to exist.

>4. At least one of the documents, “What is Holocaust Denial?” was
>published by the “Canadian Free Speech League” as an official position
>paper. Does that mean that the government of Germany is dictating to free
>speech supporters in Canada what philosophical stance they must hold to
>accommodate an already legally discredited version of the Holocaust?

>5. This is the first time, to my knowledge, where generalizations like
>”Neo-Nazi propaganda” or “pornography” have been narrowed down to specific
>examples on the Internet. To illustrate: is one thing to say that
>”pornography” is offensive. Most people would agree with that. It is
>another thing to say: “This picture, specifically, is offensive.” This
>brings up the hairy matter of criteria. At least from a legal point of
>view, it makes the matter of censorship vastly more difficult and
>vulnerable to challenge.

Save that any rational society says that anything produced by
consenting adults is acceptable. The only things left are those that
presumably were produced in violation of an existing law such as
kiddie porn.

Offensive is not grounds for illegal. Hillary Clinton is offensive to
some, so is Gilbert Gottfried, so is the entire cast of ID4 to me.

The attempt to like pornagraphy and non-“hate” literature is as
offensive as linking Clinton with his black ex-mistress and their
child with the big government agenda.

That is is succeeding in the public mind does not in any manner negate
the right to armed overthrow of the government that imposes it,
regardless of prudence.

>6) As I understand it, so far the “crime” of forbidden literature in
>Germany was “physical possession”. If you had a book in your bedroom
>drawer in Munich, let’s say, that had been “indiziert”, the government
>could launch a midnight raid and zap you with fines in the thousands – or
>even send you to prison. But what if a person decides not to download and,
>hence, to “own” the document where it can be physically seized, but simply
>decides to read and memorize it? Can the government of Germany seize the
>brain where it is stored?

Farhenheit 451.

Yes.

Repeating the information is the next crime.

>7) What if a student stumbles accidentally onto a forbidden document,
>reads several paragraphs, says to himself: “Oh, my God! This stuff is
>Politically Incorrect!” and jumps off that site like a hare. He certainly
>hasn’t inhaled. Could a click on a website be enough to criminalize an
>otherwise perfectly Politically Correct Person? Who is to say how much of
>it he read?

He has inhaled. He must be silenced before he spreads the infection.
Solitary for life a a minimum.

>8) What if a person decides to visit and study forbidden documents –
>not for the purpose of hunting for the truth but for the purpose of
>harassing people searching for the truth – let’s say, a German version of a
>Nizkorite? If he or she prints out a document in order to refute it, does
>he or she not “possess” it as well, albeit for Politically Correct reasons?

As long as one’s motives are politically correct all is forgiven. It
makes for “correct” thinkers.

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:20 PDT 1996
Article: 61879 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:44:07 GMT
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On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:50:51 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## Matty my boy, nobody but you – “revisionist” or “non-revisionist” –
>## has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
>## underground cellars. Nobody.

># Then why did your “calculation” use the size of the entire
># structure rather than just of the room?

>Matty, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I *did* use
>the size of only one room: the gas chamber, or “cellar I”. It
>is about 500 m^3 (30 X 7 X 2.4 m).

You were off a bit but your 30 meter length is the entire LK and not
one of the five rooms within it.

># Why did you agree with my calculation which used the total size
># of the structure?

>I don’t recal agreeing with anything you’ve ever claimed.

You said that your “read between the ascii” and you voiced no
objecctions.

But if you DID agree with my numbers then you were completely wrong.
Why are you so dumb?

># BTW2: I only started that spreadsheet-which-is-really-not-a-
># wordprocessr after you gave the approximate dimensions of the
># entire building and proceeded to use them for the one and only
># calculation ever presented by an indentified non-CS major.

>Gee, now I’m hurt. BTW, my B.Sc was indeed in pure math; later,
>I switched to CS, in which I obtained my Ph.D.

And the horse you rode in on.

># Yes, enough is quite enough. And do not forget, the layout is on
># Nizkor (the Holocaust’s Attic) and if you want to insist upon your
># dimensions as the size of the room then the size of the entire
># structure can be determined.

>The gas chamber (cellar I) was 30 X 7 meters in area. The “undressing
>room” (cellar II) 50 X 8 meters.

How big is the separate room you calculated upon and why did you use
the entire LK rather than just the size of that one room?

># You will be amazed at how huge it is.

>Do tell us. By “structure” you mean Kremas II & III?

I mean the drawing on Nizkor as I said.

># It will rival several modern structures as the largest ever
># by that construction technique.

>Tell us more about it. But be careful. You don’t want to post
>any more incredibly stupid articles, which prove you cannot
>handle basic arithmetic. So, take a friendly advice from a
>non-friend: check your figures before you post. And DON’T
>consult Tom Moran. He’s usually off by two orders of
>magnitude.

I am not going to tell you a damn thing. You go first with your
second ever calculation.

You third. You were finally first, I was second, it is your turn.

Please be detailed in why you are no changing the size of the gas
chamber despite your first post. A detailed explanation is required.

But let me make your explanation a bit more difficult.

You know already that the total number per day as related to the
number per gassing is a joke when based upon the entire building
dimensions is absurdly to impossibly high.

So now you want to make the gas chamber only a fraction of that size.
Certainly you have one thing in your favor, the drawing with the coded
names that came from your fevered imagination.

But on the other hand you will be moving the total number of gassings
per day from “asurd to impossible” to the “impossible to delusional”
category.

Please do it. I expect you to do it. I will be disappointed if you
do not do it.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:21 PDT 1996
Article: 61882 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:12:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 22:38:20 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:29:53 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
>>Bilik) wrote:

>>>In breaf:: 1/ the CO2 was competing with the HCN if the walls were
>>>wet, so very little HCN could react with the walls;

>> There is no such competition worth mention as water is ionic enough
>>for both. And do not forget the all those bodies.

>Ionic enough, huh ? H2CO3 is a stronger acid than HCN. That’s a
>competiting effect, since HCO3- can replace the CN- in the cyanide
>compounds.

Precisely but your interpretation si self-serving to the arugment you
wish were true.

>>2/ the speed of
>>>solving HCN in water is a very difficult question, and if you have
>>>some clues I’m interested since I’m on my third book to unterstand the
>>>rules with a necessary numerical simulation

>> When will you post the results of a numeric simulation of the LKs?

>When you will have replied; as you say that HCN is going to
>be dissolved in the water, how do you compute the speed of this
>phenomenon? It should be of some interest for you claim to know if the
>phenomenon is very slow or not, and the same for CO2 ?

Excuse me. You are the expert in the field. You are the high
muckty-muck on this subject. Why would your dispassionate
scientifific work (there is none of course but let us play your game
for the moment) depend upon my post? I have been indentified by even
scientifically illiterate (all of them) holohuggers as knowing nothng
of science.

You are doing “real science” on this subject. Why would my posting
have anything do to with your progress?

The only reason I can see is that you are making it up as you go
along, that is, you are a liar.

But then, prove me wrong. Tell us all why you would withhold read
science until I reply. It will be interesting to read.

>>3/ many testimonies,
>>>corroborating, say that the walls were washed with a nozzle of water
>>>after each gassing, so the little amount of HCN solved in water was
>>>washed and couldn’t react.

>> You kind find eyewitnesses who say anything. But then you will be the
>>first to post anything about hosing down the walls and the ceiling and
>>the floor and the bodies and all the other places where HCN would be
>>collecting.

>No for the ceiling, but yes for the walls, the floor, the bodies.
>You’re right. We can find any truthful eyewitnesses, but no one that
>will fit you.

FIND AND POST THE EYEWITNESS who claimed any such thing AND the
ceiling must be included.

When you are ready to admit you made it up or post the eyewitness
acccount you may get back to me.

>>>In breaf, your science is whimsical. You too, perhaps. I wait for more
>>>serious claims. Incidentally, the K2 and K3 were sometimes heated
>>>before the gassings.

>>In brief, you have presented no science in return. Why is that?

>It’s difficult to present science in return to your lot of guessworks
>without any calculation or even number. If you remain fuzzy, I can
>only say what doesn’t work in your suppositions.

You difficulty is that you have none to present. Your above makes
that very clear.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:21 PDT 1996
Article: 61884 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:23:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 2 Sep 1996 09:17:43 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[… I wrote:]
>>>My, my, Mr. Giwer. You know perfectly well that we have that
>>>”huge paper trail”, since I have pushed your nose into it a
>>>couple of times. That you haven’t read the sources is a
>>>completely different game.

>[…]

>>You should pay more attention to the newsgroup. Every honest
>>person knows that there have only been a two or three ambiguous
>>documents refering to something about gassing.

>>But then Diogenes must have been searching for a honest
>>holohugger.

>You see Mr. Giwer, that’s the difference between us two. I know
>perfectly well that the Internet, and especially the newsgroups
>which are frequented by admitted liars, are not the most reliable
>of all informational sources. Therefore I rely for research
>purposes on _books_ (you know, these old fashioned leafy things
>made of paper). And these books give documents galore, completely
>unambiguous documents too. The holocaust is overwhelmingly well
>documented in contemporary texts – exactly this is the reason
>why the “revisionists” switched to the science-game. You should
>at least try to be informed on the tactics of your fellow
>believers.

And of course you belive they can not pring a book unless it is true.

So what point are you trying to make really? Are you next going to
tell that they can not say it on television unless it is true?

>Apart from that. Just the other day I have posted a document
>about the gassing lorries. Not the testimony of an eye witness,
>but a document by the department for transportation of the SS.
>You must have seen it. What was that talk about “dishonesty”
>again, eh?

So what? The “testimony” as we all know, is so enmired in perjury,
torture and barbaric standards of justice that it is of no value. We
all know that. That means that you konw that and I know that.

>>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>>Like no business I know.
>>Everything about it is appealing,
>>Everything that traffic will allow.

>Boy, what a wit…

Thank you but I owe my inspiration to a Jew.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:22 PDT 1996
Article: 61890 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 05:46:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 09:58:47 -0700, Greg Raven
wrote:

>Jamie McCarthy wrote:
>>
>> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>> alt.revisionism)
>>
>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> > AFAIK, the recording covers only the first paragraph.
>>
>> I’m jumping into the middle of this conversation, so I didn’t see the
>> context. If someone had asked how much of the Oct. 4th speech was on
>> tape, the answer is “all of it,” all three hours and ten minutes.
>>
>> > The one with the “most of you know what it is to see 100 corpses
>> > lying side by side, or 500, or a 1,000”.
>> >
>> > Some “evacuation”.
>>
>> And don’t forget the quote from the next paragraph:
>>
>> We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it,
>> to kill this people who would kill us.
>>
>> In case anyone revisionists want to object to the translation — and I’m
>> sure they’d love to find a reason — I’ll make it easy on them. The noun
>> is “dieses Volk” (the same as “unserem Volk” which refers to the German
>> people). The verb is “umbringen.” “To kill this people” is the best
>> translation, in my opinion, but other acceptable alternatives would be
>> “to kill this race,” or the nontranslation “to kill this Volk.”
>>
>> And:
>>
>> Because we don’t want, at the end of all this, to get sick and
>> die from the same bacillus that we have exterminated.
>>
>> The verb there is “ausrotten.” Perhaps our “revisionists” on this forum
>> would like to explain how Himmler was using a colorful idiom about
>> transporting bacteria out of the Reich on microscopic trains.
>>
>> And don’t forget — according to Greg Raven, this speech doesn’t count
>> as evidence for the Holocaust, because Himmler doesn’t say anything
>> about gas chambers!

>I don’t deny there was a Holocaust, so it is immaterial whether or not
>this speech offers any proof.

>The revisionist posotion deals not with the Holocaust per se, but with
>claims of mass extermination in Nazi gas chambers during the Holocaust.
>Because Himmler’s speech does not mention homicidal gas chambers, it
>cannot be used as proof that the Nazis constructed and used homicidal
>gas chambers.

What I find most interesting on this subject is that one group of
holohuggers is running off at the mouth that “everyone knows the
person on the tape” and another group is trying to taunt me for not
putting up the money to determine who is on the tape.

Holos lie out of both sides of their huggers.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 07:44:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #9
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:38:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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FRANZ VON PAPEN

Von Papen was accused of conspiring with Hitler to induce Hindenburg
to take Hilter into government as Reichschancellor. According to this
view, Hindenburg was deceived by Von Papen into believing that civil
war would ensue if this was not done.

The Reichschancellor at that time, General Von Schleicher, had
attempted to rule illegally and unconstitutionally for some time
without the support of the National Socialists, who enjoyed the
largest majority in the history of the Reichstag. Many of Hitler’s
illegalities actually date back to the period of Von Schleicher’s rule
(XXII 102-103 <<118-119>>). This was the only alternative to the chaos
of 41 political parties, each representing some private financial
interest.

The democratic victors demanded of Von Papen, in 1946, that he should
have foreseen Hitler’s intent to wage “aggresive war” in 1933, and
conspired with Von Schleicher to rule through military dictatorship.

Von Schleicher was later shot following the Rohm Putsch. These
shootings were considered legal by Hindenburg, as was evidenced by a
telegram congratulating Hitler (XX 291 <<319>>; XXI 350 <<386>>;
577-578 <<636- 637>>; XXII 117 <<134-135>>). Von Papen also considered
the shooting of Rohm and his followers to have been justified by
emergency (XVI 364 <<401>>), but considered that many other murders
took place which were not justified, and that it was Hitler’s duty to
conduct an investigation and punish these acts. This was not done.

It was conceded by the prosecution at Nuremberg that the Nazi Part
Program contained nothing illegal, and was indeed almost laudable (II
105 <<123>>). The National Socialists were declared legal by the
occupation authorities in the Rheinland in 1925 (XXI 455 <<505>>) and
by the German Supreme Court in 1932 (XXI 568 <<626>>) and by the
League of Nations and Polish Resident General in Danzig in 1930 (XVIII
169 <<187-188>>).

It was not clear in 1933 that the Army would unanimously support Von
Schleicher against the National Socialists, who had a legal right to
govern. Hindenburg’s refusal to violate the Constitution at the risk
of civil war brought Hitler into government in an entirely legal
manner (see also XXII 111-112 <<128-129>>). Von Papen was accused of
“immoral acts in furtherance of the Common Plan”, such as the use of
the intimate “du” form in conversation with the Austrian Foreign
Minister, Guido Schmidt: Von Papen remarked, “Sir David, if you had
ever been in Austria in your life, you would know that in Austria
almost everyone says ‘du’ to everyone else” (XVI 394 <<435>>).

Acts of Von Papen’s which could not be called “criminal” were used to
prove the defendant’s “duplicity” (no pun intended). A mental
construction was placed on Von Papen’s acts with the benefit of
hindsight.

It is sometimes alleged that since Von Papen, Fritzsche and Schacht
were acquitted, Nuremberg was a “fair trial”. The contrary does not
apply to the International Military Tribunal of the Far East, or other
trials in which there were no acquittals; it is forgotten that the
witchcraft trials of the XVIIth Century averaged 5-10% in acquittals.
Von Papen’s case appears at XVI 236-422 <<261-466>>; XIX 124-177
<<139- 199>>.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!marlin.ucsf.edu!overload.lbl.gov!news.emf.net!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And Giwer Keeps Lying (Re: Keeping the Belsen myths going)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:55:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:48:27 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>A truly spectacular lie from Giwer; have a look, this is
>classical “revisionist tactic”.

># In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
># trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
># Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
># Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
># gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.

>A lie, of course. Dr. Bendel

>1) Said the gassing took place in Auschwitz-Birkenu, not Belsen.

>2) Didn’t say that all the people were murdered in one night.

>This is, again, a typical “revisionist” tactic: lie about a
>testimony, and distort what a witness really said, in order
>to make him/her look unreliable.

Mere denial of the truth will get you no where.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!news.cais.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Still catching suckers, after all these months..
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:19:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 1 Sep 1996 14:03:28 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>> [repost]

> [re-troll]
>
>> Moran had posted recently “What is “trolling”?
>
>>> I see a lot of dubbing of “troller” or “trolling” out here. What
>>>does that mean?
>>> Hold it! Don’t just post something and say ‘Heres an example’.
>>>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.

>> Ken McVay responded:

>>”I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.

>>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>>(Somehow, I doubt it.)”

> [change bait, cast again]

>Prophetic, eh? I doubted that Mr. Moran had the brains to
>figure it out back then, and I was absolutely right. Even now,
>months later, he is _still_ too stupid to figure it out.

>Prediction #2: Three months from now, Mr. Moron, too busy
>trying to find a hooker to take his sister’s place, will still
>not have figured it out.

>–
>The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>———————–| Free Giwerundean Lessons Here!
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/giwerundean-lesson.cgi

[email protected]

by your own postings.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:10 PDT 1996
Article: 61911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:50:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:61911 alt.politics.usa.republican:271122 alt.conspiracy:84524 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:369096 alt.politics.perot:54334 alt.politics.radical-left:115851 alt.politics.democrats.d:117235

On 2 Sep 1996 08:36:39 GMT, [email protected](Charles) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>>[email protected](Charles) wrote:

>>> Ms. “Mulhern”‘s essential argument, based on her unrelenting
>>>refrain
>>>(obsession?) that the $1 million of U.S. taxpayer money that the
>>>reported Clinton fundraiser, multimillionaire Hollywood mogul Stephen
>>>Spielberg, was given amounts to just a penny-per-taxpayer (she said
>>>$.25 in her earlier posts, but who’s counting?) seems to be this:
>>>
>>Look, can you count? $1 million divided by taxpayers in the U.S. would
>>be a lot less than both her calculations. Do you have a calculator?

> Look, are you so dense — or in denial — that you genuinely cannot
>understand this?: that the fact that each and every U.S. taxpayer was
>forced by their government to contribute “just” a few cents to
>multimillionaire Spielberg for his pet media project is not even, IMO,
>necessarily the main point.

Every citizen what no forced to contribute. Every citizen was force
to go into a deeper national debt for this million dollars. It is
only when there is a budget surplus that anyone can talk about
contributing to anything.

> More important, to me, is the fact that the William J. Clinton-led
>U.S. government has given a hugely wealthy private citizen — one who
>is a reported major fundraiser for Clinton, moreover — a million
>bucks.

Bingo. He contributes his maximum, delivers a few others maybe
$50,000 total and he gets back a million. It is better than cattle
futures.

> It’s bad enough that the U.S taxpayers have had their taxes raised to
>unprecedented levels in order to allow the government to fund a panoply
>of other projects and programs which have no business receiving
>government money.
> For the U.S. taxpayers — who’ve already paid how-many-millions to
>erect and maintain the Holocaust Museum in Washington (where no similar
>museum exists to memorialize even the American serviceman) — to be
>forced to now cough up $1 million to hand over to Clinton’s
>multimillionaire fundraiser is, IMO, an outrage.

Every penny if the deficit is an outrage.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Egyptians
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:04:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 14:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>> Did you know that over the past fifteen years Israel’s GNP has
>>> grown faster than any other nation’s?
>>
>>Big deal. isra*l’s inflation rate is the highest of any country printing
>>their own money today. Their GNP is measured in terms of stolen sheckels.

> Huber, you don’t really believe that do you.

> The logical resonse to the boasterous claim would be to ask, If
>Israel is so awesome in it’s economuic growth, why does the U.S. still
>commit billions to the awesome Jewish state?

You mean they can do something on their own rather than survive on
indistrial espionage (Mirage plans) like all other third world
nations?

Sheer BS. They do not have the industrial base to do anything of
interest.

Grant their highly subsidized universities for the moment are turning
out thousands. So what?

Just the other day I found a REAL effect of what would be called
antigravity.

There is a general rule in DOD. There are four classes of research,
Basic, Exploratory, Advanced and Engineering. The role is that each
level costs tens times more than the last. Israel can ont do anything
mroe than Basic.

Finland found the antigravity effect and they could not develop it
even though they have been sitting on it for three years. They did
not have the money.

When it comes to science, Israel is good for one thing, cherry-picking
their best into the US. Sort of a brain hatchery. Not that they have
any concept of engineering but we will take care of that.

The only real value of Israel to the US is a brain hatchery.

If they can produce enough, fine, there is an investment value. If
they cannot, then who really gives a damn about them?

Keep in minds politics rules the world. What have you done for me
lately?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:12 PDT 1996
Article: 61917 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #2
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:11:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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KARL DÖNITZ

Dönitz was imprisoned for waging “illegal submarine warfare” against
the British. In international law, everything is a matter of
reciprocity and international agreements, which can only be enforced
through reciprocity. In warfare, the best defense against a weapon is
a vigorous counterattack with the same weapon. The British, due to
their mastery of the seas, fought both world wars through blockade,
and the so-called Navicert system. Neutral ships were stopped at sea,
and forced to pull into British ports where they were searched
according to complicated formulae: if a neutral country imported more
food, fertlizer, wool, leather, rubber, cotton, etc. than the
quantities believed necessary for its own consumption (in the opinion
of the British), the difference was assumed to be intended for
reshipment to the Germans. Result: the ship (and entire cargo) was
confiscated and sold at auction, which also violated the clauses of
all British marine insurance contracts.

In 1918-19, the blockade was maintained for 8 months after the
Armistice to force the Germans to ratify the Versailles Treaty.
Hundreds of thousands of Germans died of starvation after the war
while the diplomats delayed, an obvious violation of the conditions of
the Armistice and all international law. This is what Hitler correctly
termed “the greatest breach of faith of all time”. The British point
of view appears to be that the blockade was legal but was carried out
in a totally illegal manner (see 1911 Encyplopaedia Brittannica,
“Neutrality”, 1922 Encyclopaedia Brittannica, “Blockade”, “Peace
Conference”. In the war against Japan, the Americans “sank everything
that moved since the first day of the war”.

Neutrals, including the United States, complained that this violated
their neutrality, but complied, again, in violation of their own
neutrality. A nation which allows its neutrality to be violated may be
treated as a belligerent.

The British never ratified the Fifth Hague Convention of 18 October
1907 on the Rights of Neutrals, but considered its terms binding on
the Germans and Japanese, despite an all-participation clause (i.e.,
the convention ceases to apply if a non-signatory participates in the
conflict).

In 1939, the Germans possessed only 26 Atlantic-going submarines, one
fifth of the French total alone. Moreover, German submarines were much
smaller than those of other nations. A counterblockade against the
British could only be enforced by warning neutrals not to sail in
waters surrounding the British Isles. To the British, this was a
“crime”.

Of these 26 submarines, many were, at any one time, under repair; so
that during some months only 2 or 3 were seaworthy. It is obvious that
submarines cannot carry out search and seizure in the same manner as a
surface navy; a submarine, once it has surfaced, is almost defenseless
against the smallest gun mounted on a merchant vessel, not to mention
radio, radar, and aircraft.

It was demanded by the British at Nuremberg that German submarines
should have surfaced, notified the surface vessel of their intention
to search; waited for the surface vessel to commence hostilities; then
sink the vessel, presumably with the submarine’s deck guns; then take
the dozens of hundreds of survivors on board the submarine (where they
would be in far greater danger than in any lifeboat), and take them to
the nearest land.

When British aircraft appeared and sank the submarine, killing the
survivors, they had, of course, been “murdered” by the Germans. No
international convention requires this, and no nation fought in this
manner. Since rescuing survivors rendered the submarine unfit for duty
and frequently resulted in the loss of submarine and crew, Dönitz
prohibited any act of rescue. This was called an order to “exterminate
survivors”. This was not upheld in the judgment, however.

Dönitz was also accused of encouraging the German people to hopeless
resistance, a crime also committed by Winston Churchill, Dönitz
replied. “It was very painful that our cities were still being bombed
to pieces and that through these bombing attacks and the continued
fight more lives were lost. The number of these people is about
300,000 to 400,000, the largest number of whom perished in the bombing
of Dresden, which cannot be justified from a military point of view,
and which could not have been predicted. “Nevertheless, this figure is
relatively small compared with the millions of German people we would
have lost in the East, soldiers and civilians, if we had capitulated
in the winter.” (XIII 247-406 <<276-449>>; XVIII 312-372 <<342-406>>).

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:13 PDT 1996
Article: 61920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:21:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
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On 2 Sep 1996 04:03:45 GMT, Brian Harmon wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:32:55 -0700, Brian Harmon
>> wrote:
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:47:59 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >[snip snip snip]
>> >> >> You left out that part. That is you deliberately left out the lack of
>> >> >> evidence of anyone murdered. But you know that.
>> >>
>> >> >You mean like rooms with cyanide traces on the walls that were designed
>> >> >with showerheads that were not connected to a water system next to a
>> >> >series of furnaces meant to burn a lot of people?
>> >>
>> >> Showerheads and missing copper pipe proves that every abandoned
>> >> building in the US was used for gassing. We have been over this. Or
>> >> did you forget?
>> >Except that ‘every abandoned building in the US’ doesn’t have very
>> >telltale cyanide traces on the walls, do they?

>> They have insecticide traces and cyanide was used as an insecticide.
>> So what is your point?

>Sigh. This is only true if:

>(1) these abandoned buildings were sprayed with insecticide

>and
>
>(2) the insecticide used contained cyanide.

>My point, Matt, is that ‘every abandoned building’ in the US
> differs from the gas chambers in auschwitz by many criteria,
> including cyanide traces.

Every abandoned building in the US contains traced of some popular
insecticide or other. Cyanide was the insecticide of both choice and
necessity on Germany during WW II.

There is still no difference.

In fact even if they were “gas chambers” then, given their genesis, it
would be highly surprising to find no cyanide traces. What is found,
in relationship to other samples is not out of the ordinary anymore
than finding traces of RAID or Max bug spray.

But you do know that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:13 PDT 1996
Article: 61921 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:17:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 3:17:27 AM PDT 1996
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On 3 Sep 1996 02:46:27 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 31 Aug 1996 23:53:20 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>> anderson) wrote:

>
>> >Actually, Matt, the statement you responded to was that the person
>> >in question believed in witches–not the devil. Nevertheless, I
>> >wasn’t responding to that statement, or to your reply–I was pointing
>> >out that deniers, like you, often engage in name calling.
>
>> >Any questions?
>
>> Yes.
>
>> Are you enough of an idiot to believe in witches?

> Are you telling us that there is no Wiccan religion?

I hate to break this to you but there are no witches. There are no
priests. There are no rabbis. There are only deluded people.
Witches, priests, rabbis and whackos are all the same, whackos.

> Can you explain why you claim membership in organizations which
>regularly recognize their existence?

What are you yammering about now?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:14 PDT 1996
Article: 61933 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 05:43:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 10:43:58 PM PDT 1996
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On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 20:22:47 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:

>> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>> > We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it,
>> > to kill this people who would kill us.
>>
>> Again, a lot of Jews were still there at the end of the war

>Here “revisionism” hits its nadir: the Nazis are to be inculpable because
>their attempt to exterminate European Jewry was not a complete success.

>> Again, Himmler
>> equate explicitelly ausrotten with evacuation at the begining of his speech.

>”We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it,
>to kill this people who would kill us.”

>> He is often refering to jews as saboteurs, partisans, and if I consider the
>> explanation that killing several Jews, removing all their goods, uprooting
>> them is, indeed, ‘killing the jewry’, this sounds different.

>In other words, if you squint your eyes, tilt your head, and pretend he meant
>something different, then it doesn’t look so bad.

>Open your eyes wide:

>”We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it,
>to kill this people who would kill us.”

>> The brutal treatment of the Jews looks to me like the brutal treatment of the
>> muslin hinduish who were expelled from this country

>”We have the moral right, we had the duty to our people to do it,
>to kill this people who would kill us.”

But the problem being that there is no physical evidence of any of
this having happened. None whatsoever.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61935 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: to keep you folks up to date
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:16:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:16:48 AM PDT 1996
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On 01 Sep 96 15:17:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[to keep you folks up to date] [Sunday September 01 1996 08:30][*][0]*>

> MG> Alec Grynspan continues to mail bomb me (in denfense of
> MG> another holohugger as his sllippery excuse) and uu.net and its
> MG> subsidiary uunet.ca continue to aid and abit his mail bombing
> MG> despite repeateed reports of his activities.

>You’re still stuck here, Matt. The only way out is to admit that you
>lost to the truth and leave – and you can’t do that.

>1. No mailbombs from here, little boy.

You are lying.

You also told me on the phone that you did wetwork for the Mossad.
That makes you a murderer for a Jewish intelligence organization. No
URLs, you what you told me on the phone.

>2. uu.net has zero say in the matter. This one reminds me of your
> rantings about Internet Direct.

>3. uunet.ca is not its subsidiary and is not my provider.

You could fool finger?

> MG> It is unclear if harrassment of this sort is criminal but is
> MG> cerrainly a violation of netiquette.

>1. No it isn’t. No mailbombs, Matt. You’re just looking for an
> excuse to leave.

Liar and self described murderer.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:16 PDT 1996
Article: 61951 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #10
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:39:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 179
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:39:28 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

JOACHIM VON RIBBENTROP

Von Ribbentrop was hanged for signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact,
which preceeded and made possible the attack on Poland.

Ribbentrop defended his actions on the grounds that one million
Germans had been expelled from Polish territory over a 20-year period,
accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World
Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been
ignored for just as long. These were ethnic Germans with Polish
citizenship living in lands given to the new Polish state under the
Versailles Treaty.

On October 23, 1938, Ribbentrop made an offer to the Poles which the
British ambassador, Sir Neville Henderson, admitted was reasonable,
calling it a “pure League of Nations proposal”: Ribbentrop asked for a
plebiscite in the Polish corridor; the return of Danzig (a 100% German
city) to the Reich, and the construction of an extra-territorial
double-track railway and highway across the Corridor to East Prussia,
which had previously been separated from the rest of Germany and could
only be reached by sea, in defiance of all common sense, that is, a
land bridge to East Prussia (X 260-269 <<295-304>>; 280-281
<<317-318>>; 367-369 <<416- 417>>).

In return, the Poles were to receive an advantageous financial
settlement: a guarantee of port facilities and outlet for Polish goods
through the port of Danzig. The future of the Corridor was to be
decided according to the principle of self-determination, the Poles
would receive an outlet to the sea, and the German-Polish Friendship
Pact (signed by Hitler in 1934 in the face of bitter German
opposition), would be renewed for an additional period (XIX 362-368
<<399-406>>. For the prosecution version of these same events, see III
209-229 <<237-260)). This was the "Nazi Plan to conquer the world" which served as a pretext for the entire war, including, eventually, Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, and Yalta. In reply, the Poles maintained that any change in the status of Danzig would mean war with Poland. A general mobilization was ordered. The expulsions continued, filling refugee camps along the Polish border. The Polish ambassador, Lipski, reportedly stated on August 31, 1939, that he was well aware of conditions in Germany, having served there for many years. He was not interested in any note or proposal from Germany. In the event of war, revolution would break out in Germany, and the Polish Army would march in triumph to Berlin (XVII 520-521 <<565-566>>; 564-566 <<611-614>>; XX 607 <<661>>).

Ribbentrop claimed that the attitude of the Poles made war inevitable;
that the problem of the Corridor and the expulsions had to be solved;
that for both Hitler and Stalin the territories involved had been lost
to both countries after a disastrous war followed by equally
disastrous treaties (X 224-444 <<254-500>>; XVII 555-603 <<602-655>>).

To the Germans at Nuremberg, there appeared only one explanation: the
Poles and the British were in contact with the so-called German
underground, which had grossly exaggerated its own importance (XVII
645-661 <<699-717>>; XIII 111-112 <<125-126>>).

Hitler’s interpreter appeared as a witness, and testified that the
Germans could not believe that the British would go to war over
something which their ambassador admitted was reasonable. According to
the interpreter, Paul Schmidt, there was a full minute of silence when
the message of the British declaration of war was delivered, after
which Hitler turned to Ribbentrop and said “What shall we do now?” (X
200 <<227>>).

Schmidt’s testimony shed light on a famous remark attributed to Von
Ribbentrop, that Jews should be killed or confined to concentration
camps. What happened, according to Schmidt (X 203-204 <<231>>) was
that Hitler was putting pressure on Horthy to take stronger measures
against Jews. Horthy said, “What am I supposed to do? I can’t kill
them.” Ribbentrop was very irritable and said, “There are two
alternatives: either you can do just that, or they can be interned.”
This appeared in the minutes of the conference as “The Reichs Foreign
Minister said that Jews should be killed or confined to concentration
camps”. The statement was used against Ribbentrop and all other
defendants during the trial, despite Schmidt’s testimony that the
minutes were inaccurate (X 410-411 <<462-463>>).

According to Ribbentrop, Raeder, Göring, and nearly all defendants
except Schacht, the Germans were not prepared for war and did not plan
“aggression” (XVII 522 <<566-567>>), XXII 62, 90 <<76, 105>>).

The invasion of Belgium, Holland, and France were not “aggression”,
because France had declared war on Germany. Belgium and Holland
allowed British planes to fly over their countries every night to bomb
the Ruhr. The Germans protested in writing 127 times (XVII 581
<<630>>, XIX 10 <<16>>).

Göring, Raeder, Milch and many others testified that Germany had only
26 Atlantic submarines with insufficient torpedoes, as opposed to 315
submarines in 1919 (XIV 26 <<34>>), and a “ridiculous” bomb supply
(XIX 4-5 <<11-12>>).

Hitler told Field Marshall Milch in May 1939 that there was no need
for full bomb production, as there would be no war. Milch replied that
full bomb production would take several months to bring to capacity.
The order to begin full production of bombs was not given until
October 12 or 20, 1939 (IX 50 <<60-61>>; XVII 522 <<566-567>>).

The German Air Force was designed for defensive, pin-point bombing;
the Germans cooperated with both the Russians and the British in
exchange of technical information of military value until 1938 (IX
45-133 <<54-153>>; XIV 298-351 <<332-389>>).

The Germans never built anywhere near the number of ships and
especially submarines (XIV 24 <<31>>) allowed to them under the terms
of the Anglo-German Naval Accord of 1935 (XVIII 379-389 <<412-425>>).
This agreement represented a recognition by the British that the
Versailles Treaty was out of date. It was also a voluntarily
undertaken limitation by Hitler of German naval armament (XIX 224-232
<<250-259>>).

When war broke out, many large German battleships were still under
construction and had to be scrapped, because they would have taken
years to finish (XIII 249-250 <<279-280>>; 620-624 <<683-687>>).
According to an affidavit signed by her captain, one of Germany’s
largest battleships, the Gneisenau, was on a training cruise near the
Canary Islands when war broke out, without any ammunition suplies (XXI
385 <<425>>).

Hitler was a bluffer who loved to terrify politicians with grossly
illogical, self-contradictory speeches (XIV 34-48 <<43-59>>; 329-330
<<366>>), which all contradicted each other (XXII 66-68 <<80-81>>).
For this reason, exact stenographic notes were never taken until 1941
(XIV 314-315 <<349-350>>).

Many “Hitler speeches” are semi-falsifications or forgeries (XVII
406-408 <<445-447>>, XVIII 390-402 <<426-439>>; XXII 65 <<78-79>>).

The Germans believed they were no longer bound by the Versailles
Treaty because its terms – the preamble to Part V – had been violated
by the British, and especially the French. German disarmament was to
be followed by general disarmament (IX 4-7 <<12-14>>; XIX 242 <<269>>,
356 <<392>>).

Hitler had offered to disarm to the last machine gun, provided other
nations did likewise; but Germany could not remain in a weakened
position forever, to be invaded and crushed at any moment. The
reoccupation of the Rhineland gave Germany a natural frontier
protecting the Ruhr, and would have been a matter of course for any
government. Eastern Europe seethed with conflict between heavily armed
states; East Prussia was not defensible; the Poles were openly
demanding parts of Upper Silesia (XII 476-479 <<520-524>>; XIX 224-232
<<249-259>>, XX 570- 571 <<623-624>>).

The French-Soviet Accord of 5 December 1934 violated the Locarno Pact,
which the Germans were convicted of violating (XIX 254, 269, 277
<<283, 299, 308>>).

It was not clear that the occupation of the remainder of
Czechoslovakia violated the Munich Accord (X 259 <<293-294>>). This
was done because the Russians were building airports there, in
cooperation with the Czechs. The Czechs hoped to turn the remainder of
Czechoslovakia into a “aircraft carrier” from which Germany could be
attacked (X 348 <<394-395>>; 427- 430 <<480-484>>). Roosevelt had
declared that American interest extended to all of the Western
Hemisphere, and Britain claimed dominion over half the world; surely
German interest could extend as far as Czechoslovakia. From Prague to
Berlin by plane is half an hour; Czech actions were plainly
threatening to German security.

There is no such thing as a treaty which lasts forever. Generally,
they are superceded by subsequent treaties, and become obsolete. This
is usually covered in the language of the treaty itself by the words
“rebus sic stantibus”. By 1935, Versailles and Lucarno had become
obsolete.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:17 PDT 1996
Article: 61955 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:06:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:06:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:52:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>This is, indeed, one testimony which is probably untrue.

>It was given by a child, who was 11-years-old when the war
>ended.

Elie Wiesel was 14 when he started lying and was younger when he
“witnessed” the geysers of blood from bodies that can not be found.
Anne Frank was 12-13 when her father lied in her stead or she lied for
herself at that age, your choice. But you know that.

Age only matters when it is against holohuggery.

A child of that age is not, of course, expected to
>give a very accurate testimony, moreover after living in
>a concentration camp.

No CHILDREN of that age can be expected to give accurate testimony.

>I guess Giwer feels like a big hero, picking on a child?

>Wouldn’t it be better to try and look for a job, Matty?

And how do you feel believing other children?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 13:21:18 PDT 1996
Article: 61964 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:15:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 4:15:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:61964 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:515

On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 14:17:06 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>
>> It is interesting to read that Nizkor/DOD has created a false claim as
>> to this person being Himler.

>1. There is no Nizkor/DOD

McVay now signs his posts oneb.nizkor.bc.ca. Onbe was DOD parent
organization of the other McVay.

Admit you have been suckered in for a change.

You have been had by a US DOD employee/contractor. He lied to you.
His followers lied to you. Get over it.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61968 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:29:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 3:29:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:49:45 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># They have not been. Care to post them? A URL even? Stop
># trying to fake it. You are not good at it.

>How do you know that none of the “euthanasia” chambers were
>ever found? On what do you base this statement? Did you
>read it somewhere? I’m just curious to know, in general,
>what makes you say things.

They were not found because the never existed.

Post the URL.

>I seem to recall that in Michael Burleigh’s “Death and
>Deliverance” there’s a photo of one of these gas chambers;
>I may be confusing it with a different book. I’ll try
>to check. I think it was in Brandenburg. If someone has
>the book – I’ll be grateful for help. I don’t currently
>have a copy.

Post the URL.

># It is difficult to get through to a proclaimed PhD in CS
># who thinks spreadsheets have to do with word processing.
># You are a clear fraud.

>Matty, what do you mean, exactly, by “fraud”?

>Please, do not vent your anger, frustration, and inferiority
>complex at me. I am not to blame for your life being a failure.

You simply are not what yuo claim to be. That makes you a fraud.

>## Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough
>## into a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-
>## per-million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
>## containers, so what?

># As I said, you have to know something about the subject first.
># As I have no idea what education you might have it is difficult
># to know where to start explaining it to you.

>Your failure to reply is noted.

Post the URL. No gas chambers, no bodies, not one damned bit of
physical evidence to support any of the gassing claims. Every damned
claim is a fantasy.

># I see. You are saying that when the program was described by
># holohuggers a few months ago as secret they holohuggers were lying.

>Matty, the program was secret. But it’s very hard, or impossible,
>to keep something like this a secret for a long time. The German
>population eventually learned of the mass murder of the insane
>and mentally retarded, and began to protest; especially, the
>clergy was very unhappy about the murders.

>I routinely post here some letters about this, inculding letters
>of protest from priests, and a letter from Himmler to Brack,
>in which he notes that the attempt to keep the plan a secret
>is not completely successful.

Please do not let me discourage you from your routine spamming.

I have more than enough material now to “counter-spam” anything you
and oneb.nizkor.bc.ca chooses to post.

Remember boy, this is my conference.

The games you people play are no longer valid.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:12 PDT 1996
Article: 61984 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #4
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:34:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 145
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:34:54 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

HERMANN GÖRING

Göring was accused of creating the concentration camp system and
plotting “aggressive war” against Poland. Göring’s defense was that
Germany was a sovereign state, recognized by every government in the
world (XXI 580-581 <<638-639>>); that Hitler was legally elected; that
every nation has the right to legislate and to organize its affairs as
it sees fit; that General von Schleicher had attempted to rule
illegally and unconstitutionally without the support of the National
Socialists; that Germany was on the verge of civil war in 1933; that
concentration camps were invented by the British during the Boer War,
and that internment of aliens and political opponents was practiced by
both Britain and the United States during WWII.

The order to create the camps was unquestionably legal under an
emergency clause in the Weimar Constitution, and was signed by
Hindenberg (Reich President’s Decree of 28 February 1933), under the
authority of Article 48, paragraph 2, of the Weimar Constitution (XVII
535 <<581>>, XIX 357 <<394>>).

According to a prosecution document, Document R-129 (III 506 <<565- 566>>)) there were 21,400 inmates in all German concentration camps
put together in 1939. 300,000 persons were confined in ordinary
prisons (XVII 535-536 <<581-582>>, XX 159 <<178>>).

One year after the war, 300,000 Germans were held in Allied prison
camps under “automatic arrest” clauses in Allied agreements (such as
Point B-5 of the Joint Declaration of Potsdam) (XVIII 52 <<62>>).

The majority of prisoners in German concentration camps were
Communists and common criminals (XVII 535-536 <<581-582>>, XXI 516-
521 <<570-576>>, 607-614 <<677-685>>).

During the war, due to the Allied blockade, the camp system was
expanded to utilize the labour of enemy aliens, criminals, Jehova’s
Witnesses and Communists. It was pointed out that America imprisoned
11,000 Jehova’s Witnesses (XI 513 <<563>>).

Britain fought both world wars in defiance of international law by
reducing Germany and any occupied territories to literal starvation
through blockade (XIII 445-450 <<492-497>>; XVIII 334-335
<<365-367>>). It was this which necessitated requisitions and labour
conscription in occupied territories, legal under Article 52 of The
Fourth Hague Convention on Land Warfare 18 October 1907. It was this
which made people happy to work in Germany and remit wages to their
families (between two and three billion Reichsmarks during the war).

The “slaves” paid German taxes on their wages, and were disciplined
through fines, which could not exceed a week’s wages (V 509 <<571>>).
For gross indiscipline, they could be sent to a work camp (not a
concentration camp) for a period not exceeding 56 days (XXI 521
<<575-576>>). It was strictly forbidden to beat or mistreat them.

Prisoners of war could volunteer to be released from prisoner of war
camps and work in industry, in which case they were treated like any
other industrial workers (XVIII 496-498 <<542-544>>), but lost
protection under the Geneva Prisoner of War Convention. They could not
be forced to do so.

The Vichy Regime in France obtained the release and immediate return
home of 1 prisoner of war for every 3 workers sent to Germany under
contract for a period of 6 months (XVIII 497 <<543>>). It was not
possible to violate the Geneva Prisoner of War Convention by forcing
French, Belgian or Dutch prisoners to participate in hostilities
against their own countries, because their own countires were no
longer fighting (XVIII 472- 473 <<516>>.

As for the attack on Poland, the Polish crisis existed for over a year
prior to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the German and Soviet attack.
During this entire time, the Poles never called for an impartial
international Court of Arbitration; never called on the League of
Nations; because they did not wish an equitable solution. They were
content to continue to violate their international agreements by
expelling Polish citizens of German descent, as well as many hundreds
of thousands of Jews (XVI 275 <<304>>).

The influx of Polish Jews into Germany was the principal immediate
cause of German anti-Semitism, according to many defendants and
defense witnesses (XXI 134-135 <<155>>; XXII 148 <<169>>). Polish Jews
were involved in many financial scandals and swindling schemes, such
as the Barnat-Kutitsky affair (XXI 569 <<627>>).

As for “conspiracy to wage war in defiance of the laws of war”, of
course it was the British who did that, with mass aerial bombings.
German soldiers went into battle with detailed written instructions
that property was to be respected; prisoners must be humanely treated;
women must be respected; and so on (IX 57-58 <<68-69>>, 86
<<100-101>>, XVII 516 <<560>>).

Frequent trials resulting in many death penalties against Germans were
carried out by the German armed forces against members of their own
armed forces for rape or looting, even if the value of the property
involved was slight (XVIII 368 <<401-402>>, XXI 390 <<431>>, XXII 78
<<92>>).

Requisition of government property was legal under the Hague
Convention. The Soviet Union was not a signatory to this convention.
In any case, in Communist countries there was no private property.
Göring said he had been to Russia, and the people there had nothing to
steal (IX 349-351 <<390-393>>).

Furthermore, the Allies were presently engaged in everything they
accused the Germans of doing (XXI 526 <<581>>; XXII 366-367
<<418-420>>).

Göring demolished the “pressure chamber medical experiment” accusation
by saying that every airman had to test his physical reactions to high
altitude; there was nothing sinister about a so-called “pressure
chamber” (XXI 304-310 <<337-344>>). Americans carried out medical
experiments resulting in death while the Nuremberg trial was still
going on (XIX 90-92 <<102-104>>; see also XXI 356, 370 <<393, 409>>).

Ironically, it was alleged that “defensive war” included preventive
attack (XXII 448 <<508>>) or to protect citizens of a foreign country
>from their own government (XIX 472 <<527>>; XXII 37 <<49>>), except
when Germans did it (X 456 <<513>>). Protests that Germans did just
that were ignored.

The Soviets had 10,000 tanks and 150 divisions massed along the border
of eastern Poland, and had increased the number of airports in their
section of the country from 20 to 100. Detailed maps were later found
which would not have been necessary for defensive purposes. It was
believed that to await an attack upon the oil fields of Roumania or
the coal fields of Silesia would be suicidal (XIX 13-16 <<20-23>>, XX
578 <<630-631>>; XXII 71 <<85>>).

It seems unlikely that nations with vast colonial empires (Britain,
France) or claims upon entire hemispheres (the United States) could
agree upon a workable definition of “aggressive war”. Indeed it was
admitted in the judgment of Nuremberg that “defense”, “aggression”,
and “conspiracy” were never defined (XXII 464, 467 <<527, 531>>). No
doubt “defensive war” is the medieval “bellum justum” dressed up in
liberal jargon (IX 236-691 <<268-782>>; XVII 516-550 <<560-597>>; XXI
302-317 <<335-351>>).

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:12 PDT 1996
Article: 61985 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #8
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:37:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 130
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:37:43 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

ERNST KALTENBRUNNER

During Kaltenbrunner’s cross examination, he was indignantly asked how
he had the nerve to pretend he was telling the truth and that 20 or 30
witnesses were lying (XI 349 <<385>>).

The “eyewitnesses”, of course, did not appear in court; they were
merely names on pieces of paper. One of these names is that of Franz
Ziereis, commandant of Mauthausen concentration camp.

Ziereis “confessed” to gassing 65,000 people; making lampshades out of
human skin; manufacturing counterfeit money; and supplied a
complicated table of statistical information containing the exact
number of inmates in 31 different camps. He then accused Kaltenbrunner
of ordering the entire camp (Mauthausen) to be killed upon the
approach of the Americans.

Ziereis had been dead for 10 and a half months when he made this
“confession”. Fortunately, the “confession” has been “remembered” by
someone else: a concentration camp inmate named Hans Marsalek, who
never appeared in court, but whose signature appears on the document
(Document 3870-PS, XXXIII 279-286).

Pages 1 through 6 of this document are in quotation marks(!),
including the statistical table, which states, for example, that there
were 12,000 inmates at Ebensee; 12,000 at Mauthausen; 24,000 at Gusen
I and II; 20 inmates at Schloss-Lindt, 70 inmates at
Klagenfurt-Junkerschule, etc, for all of 31 camps in the table.

The document is not signed by anyone else alleged to have been present
at Ziereis’s “confession”, and no notes alleged to have been taken at
the time are appended to the document. The document bears two
signatures only: that of Hans Marsalek, the inmate; and that of Smith
W. Brookhart Jr. U.S. Army. The document bears the date 8 April 1946.
Ziereis died 23 May 1945.

The pretense was that Ziereis was too seriously injured (he died of
multiple gunshot wounds through the stomach) to sign anything at the
time, but he was healthy enough to dictate this lengthy and complex
document, which was then “remembered” exactly and verbatim by Marsalek
for 10 and a half months. Marsalek would, of course, have had no
motivation to lie. The document is in German. Brookhart was a
confession ghostwriter who also wrote the “confessions” of Rudolf Höss
(in English, Document 3868-PS) and Otto Ohlendorf (in German, Document
2620-PS).

(Brookhart was the son of a Senator from Washington Iowa. Address in
1992: 18 Hillside Drive, Denver Colorado, USA. Brookhart never
answered my letter as to whether he had any papers or memoirs.)

Ziereis’s “confession” continues to be taken seriously by Reitlinger,
Shirer, Hilberg, and other itinerant peddlars of Holo-Schlock.

Kaltenbrunner claimed that there were 13 central concentration camps
or “Stammlager” during the war (XI 268-269 <<298-299>>). The
prosecution total of 300 concentration camps was achieved by including
perfectly normal work camps. The 13th camp, Matzgau, near Danzig, was
a special camp whose prisoners were SS guards and police who had been
sentenced to imprisonment for offenses against prisoners in their
charge: physical mistreatment, embezzlement, theft of personal
property, etc. This camp with its inmate SS men fell into the hands of
the Russians at the end of the war (XI 312, 316 <<345, 350>>).

Kaltenbrunner claimed that sentences passed by SS and police courts
were far more severe than sentences passed by other courts for the
same offenses. The SS carried out frequent trials of their own men for
offenses against inmates and violations of discipline (XXI 264-291,
369-370 <<294- 323, 408-409>>).

Third degree methods of interrogation were permitted by law for the
sole purpose of obtaining information relating to future resistance
activity; it was forbidden for the purpose of obtaining confessions.
These interrogators required the presence of a doctor, and allowed a
total of 20 blows with a stick once only, on the bare buttocks, a
process which could not be repeated later. Other forms of legal “Nazi
torture” included confinement in a dark cell, or standing during
lengthy interrogations (XX 164, 180-181 <<184, 202-203>>; XXI 502-510;
528-530 <<556-565, 583-584>>).

Kaltenbrunner and many other defense witnesses claimed that similar
methods were used by police all over the world (XI 312 <<346>>) and
that respected police officials visited Germany to study German
procedures (XXI 373 <<412>>).

Defense evidence on this and related topics amounts to many thousands
of pages divided between the Tribunal and “commission”, and 136,000
affidavits (XXI 346-373 <<382-412>>; 415 <<458>>, 444 <<492>>).

Kaltenbrunner was convicted of conspiring to “lynch” Allied airmen who
committed mass bombings of civilians. The lynchings would have been
illegal, but did not occur. Many airmen were saved from mobs by German
officials. The Germans refused to contemplate such a matter, fearing
it would lead to a general slaughter of parchuted fliers. Like so many
other German crimes, this remained an idea without effect (XXI 406-407
<<449- 450>>, 472-476 <<522-527>>).

Another crime committed by Kaltenbrunner was responsibility for the
so- called “Bullet Order”. This is supposed to have been an order to
shoot prisoners of war using a measuring contraption (probably
inspired by the Paul Waldmann pedal-driven brain bashing machine,
Document USSR-52, VII 377 <<416-417>>).

The “Bullet Order”, Document 1650-PS, if it is an authentic document,
which it probably is not (XVIII 35-36 <<43-44>>) is a mistranslation:
the sense of the order is that prisoners who attempt to escape should
be chained to an iron ball (Kugel), and not that they should be shot
with a “bullet” (also Kugel). The word “chained” appears in the
document, but the word “shot” does not (III 506 <<565>>; XXI 514
<<568>>); Gestapo affidavit 75; XXI 299 <<332>>). The document is a
“teletype” thus, without a signature (XXVII 424-428).

“Sonderbehandlung” (special treatment) is an example of the ugly
jargon used in all bureaucracies, and is probably best translated as
“treatment on a case by case basis”. Kaltenbrunner was able to show
that it meant, in the context of one document, the right to drink
champagne and take French lessons. The prosecution got a winter resort
mixed up with a concentration camp (XI 338-339 <<374-375>>); (XI
232-386 <<259-427>>; XVIII 40-68 <<49-80>>). (The winter resort
document is Document 3839-PS, XXXIII 197- 199, an “affidavit”).

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:13 PDT 1996
Article: 61989 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: sound of a stuck pig
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:29:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:29:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Does a stuck pig squealing remind you of this?
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 02:12:51 GMT

He were have the Gang of Six complaining about exactly what they have
been doing for years, monopolizing the conference and preventing any
discussion of revisionism.

Not only as individuals but by email conspiracy as to how to deal with
people who won’t believe what the Gang insists they must believe.

Their entire intention to silence those who will not believe as they
believe. And they have been doing it for years, driving people out of
the NG.

And now when the same thing happens to them, they complain about it.
Or
is it not closer to the term they are so willing to use, whine about
it.

Anyone want to feel sorry for these poor little holohuggers. They do
not have “their” conference any longer.

They can no longer drive unbelievers out of it and brag about doing
so.

It is of interest how many people I have found who will attest to this
gang behavior.

They have lost in a fair fight of about 10 to 1. And now they just
can’t deal with it.

It is curious what they think an alt conference is all about.

>Return-Path:
>Received: (from [email protected]) by ixmail1.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
> id FAA24541; Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
>Received: from eff.org(204.253.162.3) by ixmail1 via smap (V1.3)
> id sma024509; Fri Jun 21 05:02:58 1996
>Received: (from [email protected]) by eff.org (8.6.13/8.6.6) id FAA12849;
Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:04:11 -0700
>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 05:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Declan McCullagh
>To: Jamie McCarthy
>cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
> [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
> [email protected]
>Subject: Re: A discrepency among exterminationists…
>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Thanks for the note, Jamie.
>
>-Declan
>
>
>On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Jamie McCarthy wrote:
>
>> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>> news.admin.net-abuse.misc, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism)
>>
>> Cross-posted to news.admin.net-abuse.misc; emailed “FYI” to various
>> people whom Giwer calls “hijackers” and several pro-free-speech
>> acquaintances of mine, as well as Mr. Giwer himself of course.
>>
>> Matt Giwer states proudly and publicly that his goal is to take
>> alt.revisionism and “make it useless” to everyone with whom he disagrees.
>> He has so far tried to accomplish this chiefly through sheer posting
>> volume. Quite an upstanding net.citizen is Mr. Giwer!
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> wrote (quoted in its entirety):
>>
>> : [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>> :
>> : >[email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:
>> :
>> : >>Heck, since Dan Keren is using retreads, I may as well do the same:
>> :
>> : >Dvd, I don’t think there is any need to justify using material that
>> : >has been posted before. After all, the material is not posted out here
>> : >just to convince the usual. It should be posted for the reasons of
>> : >informing any new comers to alt.rev.
>> :
>> : I think it is an outstanding policy to return floods of reposts
with
>> : floods of reposts.
>> :
>> : After all the holohuggers think they own this conference. It
is about
>> : time they learned better. After all if a low IQ person such as I can do
>> : what two of them now have said I have done, if everyone starts doing
>> : this we may be able to firmly re-establish this as a conference on
>> : revisionism.
>> :
>> : That is, make it useless to the hijackers.
>>
>> Nizkor will continue to maintain an archive on this net abuser’s tactics
>> and goals at:
>>
>> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
>> —
>> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>> [email protected] Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>> Unless you specify otherwise, I assume pro-“revisionism” email
>> to be in the public domain. I speak only for myself.
>>
>
>
>// [email protected] // I do not represent the EFF // [email protected] //

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:14 PDT 1996
Article: 61992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Ye shall smell gas where there be no gas
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 12:16:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <509[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 5:16:38 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:61992 alt.politics.white-power:41813

On 3 Sep 1996 01:25:15 GMT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Matt
> Giwer) writes:
>:>
>:>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>:>Like no business I know.
>:>Everything about it is appealing,
>:>Everything that traffic will allow.
>:>No where can you get that happy feeling
>:>Then when your stealing

>He’s a liar.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>An admitted liar.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

>A coward.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html

>A loser.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>–
>Gord McFee
>I’ll write no line before its time

Yes, name calling, name calloing and namecalling. That being all you
holohuggers have going for you.

You are very stupid. You are a holohugger. Those are redundant.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:14 PDT 1996
Article: 61993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It’s Lazarus risen, sait Tom Bolyn
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 12:18:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 5:18:59 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:26:08 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>

>> It is amazing how many people have sworn Tereseinstadt was a show camp
>> that was later exterminated.

>How many have sworn that, Mr. Giwer? Who are they? Come on, give us
>references: we want to be amazed, too.

>

>Laurinda Stryker

Read the frigging NG for further details.

I no longer go over old info. It is a waste of time.
You re making yourself a waste of time.

Research it.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:48:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 4:48:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 21:26 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>> Whois Ken McVay?
>>
>>McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
>> 462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
>> Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
>> CA
>> 1-604-382-0615
>>
>> Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.
>>
>>The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
>>Information
>>(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
>>Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
>>
>>=====
>>
>> The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
>>1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
>>address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
>>disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
>>it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
>>openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
>>intelligence.
>>
>>===
>>
>>McVay, Ken (KM214)
>> 1B Systems Management Limited
>> 5-1601 Bowen Road
>> Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
>> CA
>>
>> (604) 758-2499
>>
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.
>>
>>Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
>>Information.
>>All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
>>the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

> When you next sober up, Giwer, you might stop to realize that Ken
> doesn’t seem to care that you continually post this information.

But, with the complicity of uunet.ca, Alec Grynapsn continues his mail
bombing. So what is your problem with my post that?

Would you like copy of all 600megs fo his mail bombs in your mailbox
or simply on this newsgroup?

You tell me. I would not like you to be left a doubter in this.

How much evidence do you want of the Mossad wetwork types that
represent the holohuggers? Other than that the sick in the head
admire them, they are merely human.

So you do not like it, so what?

Wetwork is murder. That is clear. There are no two ways about it.
Name one Arab member of the Mossad. None? Thank you. It is a Jewish
organization.

So what do you call wetwork for the Mossad other than murder for a
Jewish intelligence organization?

Now look, I do not mean to single out Alec based upon a phone
conversation. The most recent Jewish murder by the Mossad that has
made the US news was someone who picked up his C-fone and it blew his
head off,

Members of the Mossad are murderes in the same manner that aoy
connected with the SS were murderers.

They deserve no bette treatment.

Novels, movies they all make their emotional impression but in fact
the people involved are murders or complicite in murder.

They have no right to exist on this earth as they are no better than
those they murder.

They exist in a “holier than thou” zone where the entertainment
fantasy holds that they can never and never do any wrong. They are
always right.

Were that a valid principle we could turn over all justice to Dirty
Harry, which is the point. Such a fantasy of a just world never
occurs becasuse it can not exist. Humans are not capable of it.

Any rational group would seek out those who have killed for hire and
kill them. Better the world is without them. And that does not
matter what side they are one at the moment.

They are the scum of the earth. They are murderers. They are not
human. They are monster spawn of the human race.

Of course, after all of the above, I do wish to remind you that to the
best of my belief, Alec Grynspan is a bullshit artist and we never
involved in wetwork or even the Mossad.

Save yoru rounds for the real ones.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:16 PDT 1996
Article: 62002 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #1
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:10:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 137
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:10:54 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

DOCUMENTS

The standard version of events is that the Allies examined 100,000
documents and chose 1,000 which were introduced into evidence, and
that the original documents were then deposited in the Peace Palace at
The Hague. This is rather inexact.

Robert Jackson got the trial off to a start by quoting the following
forged or otherwise worthless documents: 1947-PS; 1721-PS; 1014-PS;
81-PS; 212-PS; and many others (II 120-142 <<141-168>>).

1947-PS is a ‘copy’ of a ‘translation’ of a letter from General
Fritsch to the Baroness von Schutzbar-Milchling. The Baroness later
signed an affidavit stating that she never received the letter in
question (XXI 381 <<420-421>>).

The falsified ‘letter’ from General Fritsch to the Baroness von
Schutzbar- Milchling was recognized as such during the trial and is
not included in the document volumes, where it should appear at XXVIII
44. Jackson was not, however, admonished by the Tribunal (XXI 380
<<420>>).

The enthusiastic Americans apparently forged 15 of these
‘translations’, after which the original documents all disappeared
(See Taylor, Captured Documents). 1721-PS is a forgery in which an SA
man writes a report to himself about how he is carrying out an order
which is quoted verbatim in the report. Handwritten markings on page 1
(XXI 137-141 <<157-161>>; 195-198 <<219-224>>; 425 <<470>>; XXII
147-150 <<169-172>>. See also Testimony Before the Commission, Fuss,
25 April, and Lucke, 7 May 1946).

The National Archives have a positive photostat of 1721-PS, and The
Hague has a negative photostat. The ‘original’ is a photocopy (XXVII
485).

1014-PS is a falsified ‘Hitler Speech’ written on plain paper by an
unknown person. The document bears the heading ‘Second Speech’
although it is known that Hitler gave only one speech on that date.
There are four versions of this speech, 3 of them forgeries: 1014-PS,
798-PS, L-3, and an authentic version, Ra-27 (XVII 406-408
<<445-447>>; XVIII 390-402 <<426- 439>>.

The third forgery, Document L-3, bears an FBI laboratory stamp and was
never even accepted into evidence (II 286 <<320-321>>), but 250 copies
of it were given to the press as authentic (II 286-293 <<320-328>>).

This document is quoted by A.J.P. Taylor on page 254 of The Origins of
the Second World War (Fawcett Paperbacks, 2nd Edition, with Answer to
his Critics) giving his source as German Foreign Policy, Series D vii,
No 192 and 193.

L-3 is the source of many statements attributed to Hitler,
particularly “who today remembers the fate of the Armenians?” and “our
enemies are little worms, I saw them at Munich”. ‘Hitler’ also
compares himself to Genghis Khan and says he will exterminate the
Poles, and kick Chamberlain in the groin in front of the
photographers. The document appears to have been prepared on the same
typewriter as many other Nuremberg documents, including the two other
versions of the same speech. This typewriter was probably a Martin
>from the Triumph-Adler-Werke, Nuremberg.

81-PS is a ‘certified true copy’ of an unsigned letter on plain paper
prepared by an unknown person. If authentic, it is the first draft of
a letter never sent. This is invariably spoken of as a letter written
by Rosenberg, which Rosenberg denied (XI 510-511 <<560-561>>). The
document lacks signature, initial, blank journal number (a
bureaucratic marking) and was not found among the papers of the person
to whom it was addressed (XVII 612 <<664>>). 81-PS is a ‘photocopy’
with a Soviet exhibit number (USSR- 353, XXV 156-161).

212-PS was also prepared by an unknown person, entirely on plain
paper, without any handwritten markings, date, address, or stamp (III
540 <<602>>, XXV 302-306; see also photocopies of negative photostats
>from The Hague).

This is, unfortunately, only typical. Document 386-PS, the ‘Hossbach
Protokoll’, Hitler’s supposed speech of 5 November 1938, is a
certified photocopy of a microfilm copy of a re-typed ‘certified true
copy’ prepared by an American, of a re-typed ‘certified true copy’
prepared by a German, of unauthenticated handwritten notes by
Hossbach, of a speech by Hitler, written from memory 5 days later.
This is not the worst document, but one of the best, because we know
who made one of the copies. The text of 386- PS has been ‘edited’
(XLII 228-230).

Thus ‘trial by document’ works as follows: A, an unknown person,
listens to alleged ‘oral statements’ made by B, and takes notes or
prepares a document on the basis of those alleged oral statements. The
document is then introduced into evidence, not against A, who made the
copy, but against B, C, D, E and a host of other people, although
there is nothing to connect them with the document or the alleged
statements. It is casually stated as fact that ‘B said’, or that ‘C
did’, or that ‘D and E knew’. This is contrary to the rules of
evidence of all civilised countries. Nor are the documents identified
by witnesses.

The forgery of original documents was rarely resorted to at Nuremberg,
because the documents were not brought to court. The “original
document” – that is, the original unsigned “copy” – was kept in a safe
in the Document Centre (II 195 <<224>>, 256-258 <<289-292>>).

Then, 2 “photocopies” of the “copy” (V 21 <<29>>) or 6 photocopies (II
251- 253 <<284-286>>) were prepared and brought to court. All other
copies were re-typed on a mimeograph using a stencil (IX 504
<<558-559>>).

In the transcript, the word “original” is used to mean “photocopy” (II
249- 250 <<283-284>>; XIII 200 <<223>>, 508 <<560>>, 519 <<573>>, XV
43 <<53>>, 169 <<189>> 171 <<191>> 327 <<359>>), to distinguish the
photocopies from the mimeograph copies (IV 245-246 <<273-274>>).

“Translations” of all documents were available from the beginning of
the trial (II 159-160 <<187-189>>, 191 <<219-220>>, 195 <<224>>, 215
<<245>>, 249-250 <<282-283>>, 277 <<312>>, 415 <<458>>, 437
<<482-483>>), but the “original” German texts were not available until
at least two months later. This applies not just to the trial briefs
and indictment, etc. but to ALL DOCUMENTS. The defense received no
documents in German until after January 9, 1946 (V 22-26 <<31-35>>).

Documents which appear to have been prepared on the same typewriter
include Document 3803-PS, a letter from Kaltenbrunner to the Mayor of
Vienna, and the cover letter from this same Mayor sending
Kaltenbrunner’s letter to the Tribunal (XI 345-348 <<381-385>>). This
letter from Kaltenbrunner contains a false geographical term (XIV 416
<<458>>).

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:17 PDT 1996
Article: 62008 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:57:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:57:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Sep 1996 10:08:24 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:

>[many samples of Russian evidence snipped]

>>Then there’s of course human lampshades,

> Buzzer there. Found at Buchenwald by the Americans, confirmed by an
>American army pathology laboratory as tanned human skin.

In fact confirmed as goatskin and even as imitation leather, as you
know. But they can not be retested, they vanished just like all the
rest of the physical “evidence.”

> Physical evidence. But of course Matt Giwer will continue to lie
>about it and say a) it doesn’t t exist, and b) came from the Russians. But
>then, Mr. Giwer makes the Russians look honest, as he himself openly
>admitted in an unguarded moment.

You know it was never found to be human and you know has now vanished.

Anything else to save your divine little holohuggery.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:17 PDT 1996
Article: 62010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who Stole the Records?
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:20:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:20:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 17:55:41 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>moran) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:

>> >That’s totally stupid. Some records were used for a lot of trials in
>> >Germany and elsewhere, and were often not returned, then they are the
>> >more often still in the last court. I can give some cases where the
>> >records were in another place than they were first, but could you
>> >understand such complex statements ?
>>
>> Where ever they are, their missing.
>
>Well, Mr. Moran, let’s consider for a moment the wit and wisdom [sic] of
>your Mr. Giwer:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>The very absense of physical evidence is proof that it is true.
>
>SO since the records have vanished (lack of physical evidence), the
>information MUST BE TRUE.
>
>After all, Mr. Giwer Says! So!

It is good to see you agree that the absense of evidence of ZOG is
proof of ZOG.

I never accused you of being bright.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:18 PDT 1996
Article: 62012 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #11
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:49:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:49:47 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

BALACHOWSKY: There were always tattooed human skins in Block 2. I
cannot say whether
there were many, as they were continuously being received and passed
on, but there were not
only tattooed human skins, but also tanned human skins – simply
tanned, not tattooed.

M. DUBOST: Did they skin people?

BALACHOWSKY: They removed the skin and then tanned it.

M. DUBOST: Will you continue your testimony on that point?

BALACHOWSKY: I saw SS men come out of Block 2, the Pathological Block,
carrying tanned
skins under their arms. I know, from my comrades who worked in
Pathological Block 2, that there
were orders for skins; and these tanned skins were given as gifts to
certain guards and to certain
visitors, who used them to bind books.

IMT VI – p.311.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 62013 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Remember the Children”
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:22:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:22:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 11:46:38 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Mr. Moran: Now I’m really confused.

That has been obvious from your first post.

You say that we know what ‘the
>majority’ of Israelis support, based on election returns, but then say
>that we can’t know what the election results actually were because the
>information comes from Jews. This seems a bit contradictory to me.
>If we can’t trust the media’s reports, then for all we know, Netanyahu
>was resoundingly defeated. Hmmmm.

Very, very, very confused.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:10:20 PDT 1996
Article: 62038 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewrassic Park
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:59:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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JewRasic Park had been seeded with a miiiion US. It is good to see we
can indebt tuture generations for the fun of it. After all, we do it
to pay for the medical care of our parents, who not for the pet peeve
of Spielberg>
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:21 PDT 1996
Article: 62068 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay, down by the school yard
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:18:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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hOn Sun, 01 Sep 1996 17:24:35 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran)
wrote:

> [repost]
>
> Moran had posted recently “What is “trolling”?
>
>> I see a lot of dubbing of “troller” or “trolling” out here. What
>>does that mean?
>> Hold it! Don’t just post something and say ‘Heres an example’.
>>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.

> Ken McVay responded:

>”I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.

>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>(Somehow, I doubt it.

Remember his address is now [email protected] and is part of
the US DOD milnet organiztion by his own postings.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:22 PDT 1996
Article: 62088 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: another question
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 00:47:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against Demjanjuk for
perjury?

Or is that a silly question?
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62108 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Very First Extermination Accusation
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:34:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 2 Sep 1996 12:33:27 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>I believe I have traced the very first written reference
>to Hitler and mass exterminations. In the Illustrated
>London Daily News, the following report appeared:

> Hitler Daubed with Red Paint and Placarded

>”On May 12, the figure of Herr Hitler at Mme. Tussaud’s
>was disfigured. On the following day it was taken to Marylebone
>Police Court and three men were charged with damaging the model.
>They pleaded Not Guilty and were remanded in custody for seven
>days.”

>Not surprisingly, the culprits identities were not disclosed. What was
>written on the placard? “Hitler-the Mass Murderer.”

>The date of the occurance? May 12, 1933!

>Mighty prophetic, I would say, but to what end: exterminations or accusations?

A self-fulling prophecy? Certainly the holohuggers will have
something other than ridicule for it.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62120 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Subborning perjury the easy way
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:51:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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In the Auschwitz Trial, witness Bernhard Walter, whose
testimony was not to the prosecution’s liking, was placed under
arrest until he had revised his statements.251 It is clear that
such actions by the Court cannot but have intimidated witnesses.
But Lichtenstein merely fumes that despite all this some
witnesses were still so insolent as to continue to deny
everything.252 German defense witnesses for the ‘criminal side’
who were willing to testify for Adolf Eichmann in the Jerusalem
trial were always threatened with arrest by the prosecution, so
that they stayed away from the proceedings.253

=====

Another example of the kind of witnesses the holocaust depends upon.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:24 PDT 1996
Article: 62124 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:54:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
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On 2 Sep 1996 13:48 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Seems Moran has forgotten to include another challenge that he
>>made to Holocaust claims.
>>
>> A few months ago, a Daniel Goldhagen, Harvard University
>>professor wrote a book “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” where he
>>claimed the Germans had 10,000 camps where the systematic execution of
>>Jews took place. Moran posted the report on the book from an editorial
>>that was accommodated the author in the L.A.Times.
>> Moran scoffed at the claim of “10,000” camps and in wee time a
>>Mr.Mittleman scoffed at Moran’s scoffing of the “10,000” camp
>>assertion.
>> Moran challenged Mr.Mittleman to list just one percent of the
>>”10,000″ camps (.01%) to which the challenge was never accepted.
>> And all Moran ask for was, one percent.

> It is _Dr._ Mittleman, zeyde.

Another PhD? Golly we are being inundated by the clowns.

Back when I asked after Keren’s degree year he refused to post it as I
said that I would drop the quarter to verify it. Since he has shown
complete ignorance of spreadsheets, I will no longer bother to drop
the quarter.

But the offer is open to you. Full name, degree field, granting
institution and year. I’ll drop the quarter on you.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:25 PDT 1996
Article: 62126 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:59:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 12:59:24 AM PDT 1996
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On 3 Sep 1996 01:18:02 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (tom moran) lies as usual:
>
>
>> A while back a Mr.Stein posted “The Trial of Tom Moran”. He
>> bellowed he was going to show that Moran was “anti-Semitic”. The only
>> thing that ensued was one of his cohorts jumped in to say that Moran
>> should turn himself in to some court authority. No alt.revisionism
>> trial ever took place. Mr. Stein never made an attempt.

> No one ever made that suggestion. The challenge was to present the
>evidence to an impartial tribunal. The result of that suggestion was that you
>demonstrated the total lack of conviction you have about your statements. You
>won’t even give it a direct answer.

About as impartial as the war crimes tribunals where even the judges
threatened witnesses when they do not give the correct testimony. But
of course our gosh awful for real attorney holds that is normal trial
procedure and completely supports it.

With an attorney like Edeiken why not spend the $10 and become one
yourself?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:26 PDT 1996
Article: 62129 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Grynspan says Moran’s parents “incestuous pair of slugs”.
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:09:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 1:09:48 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 17:15:27 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> Mr. Grynspan’s desperation directed at Moran from, “The Roman
>Empire Was” 8/4/96. One of his responses, 8/6.

>Mr. Gryspan:

> “Odd! So far an enormous amount of physical evidence has been
>presented. It has been examined, analyzed and otherwise processed in
>great detail.

>But – that is considered “nothing else”.

>Only a pedophilic rapist offspring of an incestuous pair of slugs
>would consider that much evidence “nothing else”.

>Errrr – were your parents ever – nah, of course not!”
> ——————

>Moran:
> I recall when I was a kid, a child, that when some of the kids
>got into an argument, they would start to say naughty things about the
>opponents parents.

What is interesting about the behavior of the holohuggers is that it
is the same behavior as was demonstrated at the war crimes trials.

At the trials witnesses for the defense were threatened, insulted,
charged and imprisoned until they changed their testimony. And the
judges and the prosecution did that to subborn the perjury that is the
only basis for the holocaust.

They are simply continuing the tradition that worked so well the
first time around. Perhaps it is simply a tradition of sorts.

It is rather eye-opening to have read descriptions of the trials from
the viewpoint of the prosecution. It is hard to put them on the side
of revision.

Every bit of the holocaust rests upon perjury. Suspicions are one
thing. To have it all so clearly laid out is something else entirely.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62143 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: People who never were.
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:11:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
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On 2 Sep 1996 09:00:27 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA)
wrote:

>Archive/File: holocaust/poland wlodawa.015
>Last-modified: 1993/03/21

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> Transcribed by [email protected]

What email addr?

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

In several instances Oppitz and Rckerl have noted the
influencing or prejudicing of witnesses by inmate organizations
such as the Communist cover outfit VVN, the ‘Organization of
Persons Persecuted by the Nazi Regime’.231 But what is
considerably more serious than the aforementioned manipulation
by the investigative authorities is the way in which the
witnesses coming to the Federal Republic of Germany from the
Eastern Bloc nations were checked out for their reliability and
even put under massive pressure, both by Eastern secret service
organizations as well as by Ministries of Justice and of the
Interior, and even during the trials by Embassies and
Consulates. They were even escorted into the courtroom by public
servants. Reliable Communists and such witnesses as were willing
to incriminate the accused were usually the only ones to be
granted permission to leave the Eastern states.232 B. Naumann
called this modus operandi of the Eastern Bloc nations
“inquisition”,233 and Langbein rejoiced that in spite of this
discovery the German courts still did not question the
credibility of these witnesses.234 Further, Laternser reports
that the witnesses for the Auschwitz Trial were able, even
before the trial began, to tell their stories in the media or
even in Witness Information Pamphlets published especially for
this occasion, so that impartial and objective testimony became
quite an impossibility. As well, the witnesses were monitored by
many different organizations and persons, which also renders
their prejudicing very likely.235 As an aside, it should be
pointed out that many witnesses travelled from one trial to the
next, pocketing outrageously high witness fees as they went.236

The influence of the constant barrage of Holocaust stories on
European, American and Israeli witnesses is demonstrated by
Rckerl on the basis of Australian witnesses. Whereas Western
witnesses can almost always make definite statements on certain
complexes of the matter at issue, investigators in Australia
usually come away empty-handed. Nobody can quite remember any
more there.237

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62147 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Interesting discovery
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 02:53:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 02 7:53:56 PM PDT 1996
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The discovery is that there was no discovery of any bodies at Babi
Yar. Not only, aerial photos of it made shortly after the exhumation
and burning was supposed to have occurred, show no signs of the ground
having been disturbed.

Just like the lack of ashes at A-B, there are no bodies at Babi Yar.

But then, it is the lack of physical evidence that proves it must have
happened. It is the lack of bodies that proves there are bodies
there. It is the lack of any evidence of disturbed terrain that
proves the terrain was disturbed. It is the lack of any sign of
burning that proves there was burning.

What a strange holocaust we have here. The only thing that proves the
stories is the complete and total lack of physical evidence for the
claims.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62149 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:04:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 10:03:14 PM CDT 1996
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On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:59:55 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> This tape is of no value to the discussion even if the speaker is
>> identified as there is no indication that this speech was ever
>> delivered or, if delivered, what words were used in the delivered
>> version of the speech.
>
>Mr. Giwer is getting more and more desperate these days, isn’t he?
>
>Denying the validity of the Himmler speech is reaching about as low as he
>can possibly go.
>
>I suppose next he’ll tell us that there’s no PROOF that Hitler wrote _Mein
>Kampf_.

I originally came across this “tape” in this conference as I described
it. You are advised to look at the record to see for yourself.
Perhaps some day you will find the time to post the chain of evidence
that traces it to him as the speaker.

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62153 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Spielberg: how much has he given USA?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:41:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 4:41:30 AM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:62153 alt.politics.usa.republican:272013 alt.conspiracy:84841 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:369793 alt.politics.perot:54457

On 2 Sep 1996 20:12:13 -0400, [email protected] (karl mamer) wrote:

>[email protected](Charles) writes:

>> Look, are you so dense — or in denial — that you genuinely cannot
>> understand this?: that the fact that each and every U.S. taxpayer was
>> forced by their government to contribute “just” a few cents to
>> multimillionaire Spielberg for his pet media project is not even, IMO,
>> necessarily the main point.

>Let’s consider how much money Speilburg’s works (oh, like ET) have
>brought into the US? Hundreds of millions of offshore dollars
>that have generated hundreds of millions of tax dollars,
>and employed thousands. And how much has Speilburg donated
>to various charities? I know for one he gave a substantial
>grant to the SETI project out of his own pocket.

>Are you really that petty, Charles, that you will
>begrudge a man as capable as Speilburg to oversee
>a million dollar government project?

Yes, when he knows for certain that it will be completely valueless
and in fact a continuation of a lie.

===

Elisabeth Loftus, a Jewish-American specialist on eyewitness
testimony, takes the opposite position, even – in fact,
particularly – in the context of Holocaust witnesses: of all the
categories of witnesses, she says, these are the most
unbelievable, due to the world-wide media exploitation and the
emotionally highly charged mood characterizing the topic of the
Holocaust.212 Admittedly, she has held this view only since
attending the Demjanjuk Trial in Jerusalem, where the scales fell
>from her eyes. In the end, this trial produced a verdict of not
guilty, since the unreliable nature of all the witnesses for the
prosecution had become too apparent – and this included witnesses
who had given similar testimony two decades earlier in two
Treblinka trials in Germany, where they had been deemed credible
and had helped to decide the outcomes of these trials.

cf. H. Lichtenstein, Im Namen des Volkes?, Cologne: Bund, 1984,
pp. (Note ), pp. 196ff.

===

>Now, you say Speilburg was given a grant. Was he actually
>given the money for his own cooked up project or
>was this money already ear-marked and as a capable
>producer he was put in charge of the project?

He is a capable producer of marginal quality science fiction of the
Hollywood genre. He has ZERO credentials in even documentaries much
less this project.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62162 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: IMT #3
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:23:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 12:23:29 AM PDT 1996
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KURT GERSTEIN

Kurt Gerstein is often referred to as a Holocaust “witness”; however,
this is not correct. By “witness”, one normally understands a person
who has seen something and who appears to testify as to his personal
knowledge; Gerstein did not do that. Gerstein was an unsworn affiant
or deponent, which means that he is simply a name appearing at the end
of a “statement” typewritten in French, which he may or may not have
written. (Document 1553-PS rejected at Nuremberg) (VI 333-334
<<371-372>>, 362-363 <<398- 399>>).

One of the stories current about Gerstein is that he wrote the
statement in Cherche-Midi prison, in France, and committed suicide,
after which his body disappeared.

It is far more probable that the statement was written in French by a
German Jewish interrogator-“interpreter”, and that some of the
inconsistencies (such as winter occuring in August, or being in a car
in one sentence, and a train in the next) resulted from imperfect
transcription of the notes of interrogation into affidavit form. In
minor war crimes trials and Japanese war crimes trials, unsworn
“statements” of this kind are fairly common, on the theory that they
possess “probative value” but less “weight” than sworn statements. It
is also possible that Gerstein died of injuries sustained during
“interrogation” . . . .

This document was later extensively quoted in the Pohl Trial, where it
was “proven” that Treblinka had 10 ‘gas chambers’ (1553-PS) and 10
‘steam chambers’ (3311-PS) in the same camp at the same time.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62178 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:43:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 4:44:01 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 2 Sep 1996 19:42 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against Demjanjuk for
>>perjury?
>>
>> Or is that a silly question?

> It’s a silly question.

> Actually, it’s a troll.

Actually you are defending deliberate and willful perjurers as the
only thing that holocaust is based upon is subborned perjury.

> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest
> is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he
> has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others
> of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which
> contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
> emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted
> himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity
> that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to: URL
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

> In fact, here’s another one…

>>=====
>>
>>There’s no business like Shoah Business
>>Like no business I know.
>>Everything about it is appealing,
>>Everything that traffic will allow.
>>No where can you get that happy feeling
>>Then when your stealing

I did not write the song. little one.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62182 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:02:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:02:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 96 17:02:29 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>[…]
>>Must I always do your work for you?

>Yes, it would be very laudable if you finally would do your homework.

>> It is obvious that Himmler is
>>referring here to the warfare with the Partisans.

>Himmler said in roughly these words: “Most of you have seen a thousand or
>more corpses side by side. This is hard, but one has to endure it and to stay
>morally clean”.

>A batallion of partisans on one spot? Strange guerilla warfare…

No. Combat troops had seen the thousand or so of their own and
others. So what is your point?

>And: “When a tank ditch has to be excavated by women and you say ‘I can’t
>do that, these women will die’ then I will say ‘If this tank ditch is not excavated
>than you will become the murderer of your own women and children’…”

>Warfare with partisans?

Actually it was a rule of war at the time that partisans could be
executed on site without a trial of any kind. But you know that.

>And: “We have to kill the women and children, or else in their offspring new
>ememies of the German people will rise.”

>Warfare with partisans???

Yes. It is as old as the old testiment and as new as “The Godfather”
that women and children are to be killed in such cultures. Are you
really imposing 1990s US culture on the rest of the world? Are you
really that stupid?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62183 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:08:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <502sor$8l[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:09:04 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 13:39:30 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: What I find most interesting on this subject is that one group of
>: holohuggers is running off at the mouth that “everyone knows the
>: person on the tape” and another group is trying to taunt me for not
>: putting up the money to determine who is on the tape.
>:
>: Holos lie out of both sides of their huggers.

>I’m not sure how that can be considered a contradiction, Matt. Everybody
>who has studied the tape agrees that it’s Himmler. You deny it, for
>reasons you haven’t made clear. You’ve been presented with a simple
>challenge: the tape can be subjected to voice analysis, and if it’s
>Himmler, you pay for the analysis. So far, you show every sign of
>chickening out.

>But that’s not suprising.

You holos are still lying out of both sides of your huggers. I am not
impressed wtih this crap. You holos have no idea what you are
supporting. You post contrary to each other and you lie in support of
each other.

You are beneath further notice.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:34 PDT 1996
Article: 62188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:23:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:23:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:51:20 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>> I hate to break this to you but there are no witches. There are no
>> priests. There are no rabbis. There are only deluded people.
>> Witches, priests, rabbis and whackos are all the same, whackos.

>Mental illness is such a sad thing to watch.

>[whether or not you think religious figures are ‘whackos’,
> doesn’t mean they aren’t actually religious figures, matt.]

Excuse me. I did not realize you were a brain dead, religious true
believer. Go thy way, thy faith has saved thee.

Come back when you can think for yourself.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:34 PDT 1996
Article: 62189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsrelay.netins.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!news.ios.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer – privacy advocate (not!)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:25:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 1:25:45 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:62189 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:520

On 2 Sep 1996 23:11:14 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Giwer, what the fuck did you post this stuff for? Even assuming that it
>is accurate, why? You had a feeble excuse the last time – you claimed Ken had
>hassled your father for information on you; now you have no excuse. (As it
>turned out, Ken did not make the phone call in question.)

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>McVay, Kenneth (xxxxxx) [email protected]
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Are you wishing that some slack-jawed, aggressive, slug-witted[*]
>Aryan Warrior should go to these addresses and inflict harm on Ken? (Or anyone
>at those addresses?)

Who would harm anyone? The only organized harm I have seen in the
news lately is by terrorist organizations such as the JDL and what
would appear to be those with holohugger motives. He is safe from
that unless they take a dislike to his DOD connections which he now
announces in his “transcriptions” using the address of
[email protected]

IB Systems was where his DOD listing was to be found.

Now that he has clearly announced that I was correct he has also made
a fool of you and the rest of his kneejerk defenders. He played you
for a fool. He floated a cover story of running a gas station. And
you believed him.

Just what kind of person needs a cover story but a spook? Have you
ever even verified his use of OBC? How do you know who he is or what
he is?

But in any event, color yourself SUCKER.

> Perhaps you aren’t *brave* enough to put up with Ken’s posts?

Brave? I have not filtered him out but he has filtered mine out. The
coward is the one first to run. He did.

He is a DOD contractor who has chosen to promote a cover story as to
what he does for a living. Read it carefully. He paychecks comes
>from the US DOD. He is a US Defense contractor. He is a promilitary
type. He is even not admitting it, SUCKER!

>>McVay, Ken (xxxxx)
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Or maybe Matt is sticking pins in a Canadian phone book and posting
>the addresses he finds that way, in a vain attempt to find Ken’s address?

I got it from milnet as you read and as he now admits.

If he had wanted an unlisted address he could have gotten one. Do you
have a problem with that?

>[*]Of course, these are all implied in the phrase “Aryan Warrior”, but I
>can’t emphasise them too much.

Of course, an Aryan Warrior is what you look for under your bed every
night because you know they are coming to get you. However the JDL is
the only identified terrorist organization playing this game and they
are holohuggers.

Now go away, you silly goose.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:35 PDT 1996
Article: 62190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:33:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:33:19 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:19:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>I will try and look for the Burleigh book.

># You simply are not what yuo claim to be. That makes
># you a fraud.

>Please be more specific. This is still too vague.

># Post the URL. No gas chambers, no bodies,

>Plenty of gas chambers, Matty, and plenty of human remains.

>-Danny Keren.

Not a one, holohugger. You know that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:36 PDT 1996
Article: 62193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:44:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:44:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.usenet.kooks:28784 alt.politics.usa.republican:272112 alt.conspiracy:84891 alt.revisionism:62193 alt.society.conservatism:51293 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:369866 alt.politics.radical-left:116147 alt.politics.perot:54476 alt.politics.democrats.d:117673

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 20:59:52 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:34:10 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
>> Mulhern) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >*Go to the website and read more than the mission statement and find
>> >*who rare the mention of anyone but jews. Read the lesson plans where
>> >*the teaching is to focus on Jews.
>>
>> >Uh huh. HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE MUSEUM?
>>
>> Few go to the museum many go to the website. Sorry, if you feel
>> they are different then they are lying on their website.
>>
>IN other words:
>
>NO, I haven’t been to the Museum. I’m talking out of my ass.
>
>Thought so, Mr. Giwer.

Of course I ahve not been to the museum, dumbtwat.

You have not been to Auschwitz therefore you still support your
bullshit nonsense about the gassing. That is the only reason you are
supporting it, because you can imply you were at the USHMM but were
not at the real thing.

It is only a lying idiot dumbtwat who would suggest that visiting a
particular museum is a sine que non for belief.

You are truly stupid.

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:37 PDT 1996
Article: 62194 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:38:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 6:38:33 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 09:32:16 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Concerning Mr. McVay’s remarks re: Julius Streicher 2-PORNOGRAPHER

>Mr. McVay…I am not asking for your definition of pornography. I
>already mentioned that in my first post. Streicher was accused of
>being a pornographer, like Larry Flynt, or Al Goldstein of “Screw”
>magazine. Please don’t divert the reader from the direct subject.
>I asked for specific proof that this man was a pornographer, in a sexual
>sense, and confirmed by his very own publications, and or judgements
>against him on these charges in any court before Nuremberg. Can
>any of you provide this proof or not?

Of course the shithead can not. Head is only a DOD holohugger.

He is not very bright.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:06:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 8:06:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:84893 alt.revisionism:62195

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:17:52 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> >Give me your educational beackground. Show me your PhD in history. Tell
>> >me about the places you’ve studied and with whom you’ve studied.
>>
>> My education and work experience have been posted many times. Look it
>> up.

>Giwer claims a four year study in Physics. That of course qualifies him as
>an expert, able to babble on about History, Mathematics, Computer Science,
>Forensics. It also enables him to lie continuously and without fail.

>[inane holocaust denial deleted]

I had exepected an answer. Do you have one?

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:39 PDT 1996
Article: 62196 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:15:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 8:15:33 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:98687 alt.revisionism:62196 alt.politics.white-power:41912 soc.culture.europe:47516 soc.culture.german:84957

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 11:03:59 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
>> for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
>> what I can to get them the guns.

>You are a twit.

>> It is a very dangerous thing the German government is doing

>If anybody should have their access to the Internet restricted it is you.

Sorry about that but people have a right to talk to each other. And
any government that acts to prevent that is worthy only of a trip to
the wall. Nothing more and nothing less.

The government saying that I can not talk to my neighbor is no
different from saying that I can not post here, or have published or
anyting thing else. The government is no diffierent from the people
hwo enforce it.

That means if you show up with a gun as the goverment then you are no
better an andifidual making the same claim and enforcing the same
prohibition and are just as dead.

So what is your problem? No balls?

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 07:05:39 PDT 1996
Article: 62198 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:06:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:06:46 AM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:15:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
>## cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
>## in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.

># Cyanide traces are everywhere.

>”Everywhere”? You’re out of your mind, Matty. Seek help.

Fumigation was everywhere, traces are everywhere.

># No significant amount of human remains anywhere, even Babi Yar,

>In Treblinka? Over a large area, to a depth of 7.5 meters?
>In Maidanek?

I read your post many times. They are neither significant nor
credible.

># three possible documents if you are paranoid enough.

>”Three”? Many more, of course.

Sorry, only three have been posted here. Where are you hidiong the
rest?

># No photographs fo interest whatsoever.

>Now, now.

Very correct..

># Are you a vegan missing basic proteios?

>Relax, Matty. Have another drink.

I need it after dealing with holohuggers. You folks are like a trip
to the Twilight Zone.

># Your jealously is overwhelming. Why do yo not retire?

>Because there are people who are willing to hire me. Can you
>find someone willing to hire you?

Why would I hire someone who lies about his degree field? And if not
lying your are not qualified in CS. Customer Service Reps have to
know more than you.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 08:51:48 PDT 1996
Article: 41913 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:20:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 18:16:42 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
>> for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
>> what I can to get them the guns.

>That reminds me, Oh Gonadless One, I’m still waiting for you to gather up the
>miniscule amount of courage you have to answer the following questions:

>1. Why did you cut out part of one of my posts and then claim you didn’t
> do it despite the fact anyone with two neurons saw that you did?

>2. What hominid averaged seven feet in height?

>3. How many bones compose the skull and pelvis?

>4. How many bones does _Gray’s Anatomy_ (which *you* mentioned) say
> there are in the skull?

>(The 1995 reprint of the First Edition, page 4 and page 19 for starters)

I will see your claims and raise you

How many items of physical evidence are there of the holocaust.

You provide one and I will deal with the rest.

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 09:29:06 PDT 1996
Article: 62227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:39:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:12:15 GMT, [email protected] (Angus M.
McLellan) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Much has been made of the “gastight” door reference.
>> For those completely unfamiliar wtih the WW I / II period let me
>>explain that poison gas was used in the first and was expected to be
>>used in the second.
>> Bomb shelters would equipped with the best for all conditions as were
>>the troops in Iraq equipped with CBW equipment even though the
>>likelihood of their being used was minimal.
>> Yes, a “gas”tight door would be expected. It would also be airtight
>>to keep out the direct effects of the overpressure of a bomb or shell.
>> But as we notice, the usage of the term gastight is in an unclassified
>>document so there was obviously nothing “secret” about it, nothing
>>that was exepected to be in any manner incriminating. In fact what is
>>notable about all three of these so called “incriminating” documents
>>is that they are not classified.
>> And it is noted that no classified documents have ever been produced
>>that can be considered incriminating.
>> In the real world it is quite the opposite.

>For the uninitiated, Mr Giwer is rehashing the “historian” Butz’s
>latest means of explaining away the gas chambers.

For mongoloid idiots like you, I have never read Butz. If I have come
to the same conclusion it is because it is so obvious. Anyone with a
minimal education should see it.

>I’m afraid that anyone with any knowledge of Germany’s civil defence
>programme in the WWII era will laugh this one out of court.

I have seen the IMT courts and it is only the IMT courts that were
laughable and should have been executed on the spot.

>Let’s look at the evidence.

>Case 1 : the UK
>Gas masks were issued to every single person from a very early period
>in the war (in theory before the began). That means everyone, adults
>to infants.
>Air-raid shelters in the UK were _not_ airtight. Look at pictures, do
>they look air-tight ? Are underground railway tunnels air-tight ?

>Case 2: the Thousand Year Reich
>In Germany, at no time were gas masks issued to all of the population.
>Possibly something to do with DF’s belief in the “stab in the back”
>myth.
>A cursory reading of accounts of the Hamburg and Dresden firestorms
>suggests that air-raid shelters were less than air-tight.

>Can Mr Giwer (or Mr Butz or any other apologist for Nazi Germany)
>produce examples of air-tight doors fitted to shelters in Munich, in
>Essen or in Stuttgart ? If not, what validity does Butz’s argument
>have ? What is Giwer’s point in posting it (without even acknowledging
>it’s source) ?

What is the point of introducing obvious engineering details of this
matter?

It is uneductated fools like you that bother me. Not regarding the
holocaust but the economic future of America. Our educational system
appears to produce only ignorant fools like you.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 09:29:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62228 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:50:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
># Demjanjuk for perjury?

>Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?

He was not in the camp described. Therefore they lied. What is so
hard about that?

>Moreover so since one of the SS-men from the camp (Otto Horn)
>picked up Demjanjuk from a photographic line-up as being “Ivan”?

So what? The witnesses are still criminal perjurers who deliberately
and willfully caused a man to be imprisoned for years because of their
knowing lies.

I know they are holohuggers but that is no excuse for lying just to
harm a man innocent of the charges.

># Or is that a silly question?

>You’re joking, right?

>Soon, you’ll be asking if your claim below is silly.

Fact is, everyone who identified his is a lying Jew.

Now why did they lie to condemn a man innocent of the charges against
him?

And when are they going to be charged with the perjury they committed
and get the time in prison they so justly deserve?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 09:29:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62238 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:30:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 03 Sep 96 19:13:24 EST, [email protected] (Scott Erb)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…

>> A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
>>for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
>>what I can to get them the guns.
>>
>> It is a very dangerous thing the German government is doing

>Do you really think a violent revolution is called for because of minor laws
>limiting certain types of public expression?

Who is foolish enough to prioritize rights? You? Again, prudence
dictates attempting a nonviolent means first. But also to repeat, all
rights are equal, the deprivation of any one of them is a killing
offense.

Last time there was violence in
>the streets in Germany, it lead to a counter-reaction, and soon left and
>right were killing each other and killing democracy. The result: a
>dictatorship that limited free speech, committed a holocaust against people
>they defined as inferior, and a war that decimated Europe and their own
>country. No, a violent revolution is hardly called for.

>Laws can be changed slowly with reforms. In a democracy, one can work within
>the system. Also, by your standards, every state in the world needs a
>violent revolution. You may believe that, but it would make life pretty
>lousy for most people.
>-scott

>”Only Love can make a Miracle of Life” – Sophie B. Hawkins

A government slowly killing freedoms is no better than this. It
merely puts off the inevitable. Should it happen sooner than later
there will be less bloodshed.

The British colonies in America put off revolution for 15 or so years
and there was moderate bloodshed. The USA put off the slavery issue
for 70+ years and there was major bloodshed.

As for every state needing a revolution, the real Thomas Jefferson
suggested a revolution every 20 years to keep a country healthy.

You may realize that our constitution was founded on the presumption
of patriotism over partisanship but that partisanship won within the
first few years. Those are the facts of life.

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 10:49:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62249 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wagner.spc.videotron.ca!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Words of Wisdom on Grynspan…
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:45:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 12:01:07 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> That is the difference between you and me. When he first called he
>> got to talking about how he did wetwork for the Mossad. Therefore, I
>> expected it.

>As far back as that?!?

>No wonder your meds aren’t working so well any more!

I regret that I can not lie to support a Mossad murderer. Now if cash
were to come my way … you have my address

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 10:49:01 PDT 1996
Article: 62250 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wagner.spc.videotron.ca!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.mindspring.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Words of Wisdom on Grynspan…
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:28:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 14:22:18 GMT, [email protected] (Rack
Jite) wrote:

>Havent looked in revisionism in ages, dont want to now either, its too
>depressing watching so many Jews suck up to Grynspan just because he
>is a Jew.

>In my years of this I must say he is king of the ALL AROUND netscabs.
>No one can beat him in the Scabathelon which includes: the most
>egomaniacal asshole around, a rabic control and censorship freak, a
>pathological liar & libeler, a squealing-address posting invader of
>privacy, king of the law suit threateners, and a backstabbing creep…
>And those are his good points! 🙂

>Speaking of backstabbing, has he turned on his friend Giwer — who he
>for years claimed was neither an anti-Semite or Holocaust Revisionist
>– and rammed the blade into his back yet like he has so many other of
>his one time pals?

>Three pieces of advice for yall; dont believe anything he says, dont
>talk to him on the phone, and dont turn yer back on the little shit.

That is the difference between you and me. When he first called he
got to talking about how he did wetwork for the Mossad. Therefore, I
expected it.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 10:49:02 PDT 1996
Article: 62264 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:26:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 11:26:18 PM PDT 1996
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On 2 Sep 1996 12:04:08 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Without getting too deeply in this, I would like to read any of Larson’s autopsies
>for people allegedly found gassed at Dachau.

They existed back during the trials “by reference” but were never
produced and can not be found. He was also permitted to testify to
matters upon which he had no personal knowledge when it came to
describing the gas chambers that existed for the trials but ceased to
exist later.

In other words it was a typical war crimes trial that used the legal
tradition of the Inquisition — but then I denigrate the inquisition.

As to the well fed guards, many of
>the prisoners looked well-fed also. The majority of deaths in these camps was due
>to disease. Typhus runs rampant very quickly and the fatality rate can be very high.
>Concerning the bombing sorties, if you really insist, I will give you an example, but I
>will need to look it up. As usual, you did not answer my question directly as to how
>many prisoners died after the British took over administration of the camp.

I will, 40,000. And as there is not date on Keren’s fat women picture
there is no way to tell whether they were burying pre or post Brit
deaths. But then Keren knows that.

It is an exercise in the art of the deceptive caption.

Do you think
>this habit of yours and others-namely, not answering questions directly-goes unnoticed
>by the reader?

Habit? It is a deliberate tactic. It is like the “self-examinations”
used on Red China. The person charged has to speak first and is then
is supposedly ridiculed into correct thought. The basic assumption is
that if you do not agree with everything then there is nothing you can
say that is correct and they will keep after you. If all else fails,
they attack the spelling.

That is why some months ago I advised revisionists to always be on the
attack as they is the method they are using.

Just try to get them to commit to something. What you will get is a
quote from someone else. They have nothing to offer on their own on
the subject. While they may truly be incapable of original thought in
practice, if they were to make direct statements then they would leave
themselves open to actually discussing the subject.

And actual discussion of the holocaust in the last thing these
neo-Maoists want.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 10:49:03 PDT 1996
Article: 62265 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Sinking McVay – down, down, down
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:41:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 11:41:57 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 14:31:49 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>

> Moran had posted “What is “trolling”?
>
> “I see a lot of dubbing of ‘troller’ or ‘trolling’ out here. What
>does that mean?
> Hold it! Don’t just post something and say ‘Heres an example’.
>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.”
> —————

> Ken McVay, anti-hate star of the Internet and Web-Master of
>Nizkor, “A Holocaust Educational Resource”, responded:

>”I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
>inability to use the English language properly, brush your
>teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
>manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.

>There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
>(Somehow, I doubt it.)”
> ————-
>
> Moran reposted the exchange under “McVay, down by the school
>yard” and McVay popped in again, this time to add:

>”Prophetic, eh? I doubted that Mr. Moran had the brains to
>figure it out back then, and I was absolutely right. Even now,
>months later, he is _still_ too stupid to figure it out.

>Prediction #2: Three months from now, Mr. Moron, too busy
>trying to find a hooker to take his sister’s place, will still
>not have figured it out.”
> ————

> So here we have this person who is the web-master of the widely
>known Nizkor, “Holocaust Educational Resource” resorting to attacking
>a family member of his opponent. Here again as with his previous out
>burst against Moran himself, he uses a sexual innuendo.

> Sex is an interesting subject with humans. The biologist might
>state the basic function of sex is to prolifigate, and for the most
>part, in the animal world, this might be correct.
> But with humans it has developed into something far more complex.
>Outside of the basic union of romance, sex can be used for revenge, to
>manipulate, as a means of dominance and in many cases as an act of
>self destruction brought on by stress and self hatred.
> This is what happened to the recent Democratic big wig, Morris,
>who was found out to be consorting with a hooker. We should ask, why
>would such a person with the position he had, take a chance on
>destroying it all? After all there has been many other incidents
>where leaders have gotten themselves flushed for similar acts and it
>wouldn’t be a matter that he was ignorant of the likely consequences.
>
> So here we have McVay, using little sexual innuendos to attack
>his opponents. Not only that, the webmaster of the anti-hate web page
>attacks the unknown family member of his opponent. Is he in some
>spiritual abyss? Seems so.

It is more likely the original rumors are true as to his bisexual
nature and that his co-conspirators are his current partners.

The really good thing about these blind attacks by the holohuggers is
if they should ever get around to their legal nonsense.

“Mr. McVay, did you not in fact my client’s sister …” It is quite
damaging to the credibility of the complainant.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 11:42:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62270 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:29:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:29:57 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:56:26 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 2 Sep 1996 04:03:45 GMT, Brian Harmon wrote:
>
>> >My point, Matt, is that ‘every abandoned building’ in the US
>> > differs from the gas chambers in auschwitz by many criteria,
>> > including cyanide traces.
>>
>> Every abandoned building in the US contains traced of some popular
>> insecticide or other. Cyanide was the insecticide of both choice and
>> necessity on Germany during WW II.

>_Every_ abadnoned building, matt? Since when do you know jack about
>insecticides?

Yes. Parts per billion are detectable today. If they are abandoned
they are old and they have DDT which is long lived when completely
exposed to the elements and is still around in detectable quantities.
Or have you not been paying attention.

Or did you not know that through the 40s through 60s DDT was sold as
household sprays?

Are you deaf or just dumb?

>> In fact even if they were “gas chambers” then, given their genesis, it
>> would be highly surprising to find no cyanide traces. What is found,
>> in relationship to other samples is not out of the ordinary anymore
>> than finding traces of RAID or Max bug spray.

>Is there cyanide in Raid, Matt? Care to provide us with the active
> ingredients of that bug spray?

Your ignorance of the subject is noted. Please learn something before
you participate again.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 11:42:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Are there any non-Jew-hating revisionists?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:07:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 5:08:05 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:05:11, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Allan Matthews) writes:

>>I’ve been following this group for some time and it appears to me that all the
>>revisionists who post here are overt Jew-haters. I suppose this follows given
>>that in order to believe the revisionist line one has to accept that there was
>>and is a massive Jewish conspiracy involving the Holocaust. If this notion is
>>accepted then what are the involved Jews except evil?

>>However, no one in this newsgroup has been able to provide a coherent version
>>of this supposed conspiracy; so I’m forced to conclude that revisionists
>>are Jew-haters first and revisionists second, not the other way around.

>>Are there any revisionists around who don’t think Jews are evil or who don’t
>>hate them?

>No, but there’s a couple — Bradley Smith comes to mind — who pretend
>otherwise. His defenders will probably, once again, leap to his defense by
>explaining that he can’t be bigot because his wife is asian or latino or
>something.

I created the term holohuggers when the gang here used the same
argument in defense in saying that all holocaust lovers were not
Jewish, using Ken McVay as the primary example. So you see, you have
already identified a holohugger tactic.

As always, the holohuggers as good neo-maoists, turn around any true
statement about them as an accusation against the person making the
true statement about them. Yours is but the most recent example.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 11:42:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62279 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:21:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:21:54 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 13:34:37 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: I hate to break this to you but there are no witches. There are no
>: priests. There are no rabbis. There are only deluded people.
>: Witches, priests, rabbis and whackos are all the same, whackos.

>Yup. He’s going in for the Big Crash. Last week, Matt asserted that
>the Hebrews never lived in Israel. Now he tells us that priests and
>rabbis don’t exist. The fantasy world is growing. Reality is
>shrinking.

>I’d say it was time for a kotm nomination, but I think it’s gone past
>that…

I had to break the truth to you slowly.

Anyone who identifies with anything that is without rational
foundation is an idiot. That includes Christians, Moslems and Jews.
They are all idiots. But you know that.

Try getting over it. There is no god(s), period. Therefore there is
no religion. Therefore there is nothing of interest that is in any
manner related to anything like it.

Is this too hard for your to grasp?

Anyone who hung on to any religion for any reason and was persecuted
for it was simply an idiot. Anyone who hangs on to any religion today
is an idiot.

That means that all Christians, Jews and Moslems among many others are
idiots. All of them.

Why do you have such a problem grasping this? Are you a god believing
idiot?

And yes, one can be Jewish by birth because of a man made rule. A man
made rule has of tribal membership has no more value than any other
man made rule. Jewish by birth has no greater merit than a rule
against jaywalking.

It is truly laughable to see all the committed Jews and those
committed to Jews supporting man made rules from thousands of years
ago as though they were something more interesting that residency
rules for voting.

What is a jew and where do you vote are of equal value and importance.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 11:42:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62280 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected].com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:25:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:25:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 00:42:02 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 3 Sep 1996 02:46:27 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>
>> > Can you explain why you claim membership in organizations which
>> >regularly recognize their existence?
>
>> What are you yammering about now?

> Sure, Matty poo. You have bragged about your memberships in
>organizations

You are a liar. I have only mentioned in my years being a member of
the NRA and the Libertarian Party.

>which recognize that there is a religion known as Wicca which
>describes certain of their members as witches. They are regularly asked to give
>presentations at their meetings and conventions.

> Have you protested the fact that this regularly done?

Yes you are a lying fake attorney.

What would really be interesting would be to find you are really an
attorney and to transmit your posts to the Penn Bar. It would then be
up to them.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 12:55:42 PDT 1996
Article: 62297 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer’s Lies About Belsen Testimony
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:18:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 5:18:28 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:27:26 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer still hasn’t commented on the outright lie he posted.

>To remind:

> From [email protected] Sun Sep 1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
> Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
> Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT

>

>In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
>trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
>Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
>Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
>gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.

>

>This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
>Holocaust – they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
>them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
>in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
>said there was such gassing, in order to “prove” that this
>witness was lying.

Of course the witness was lying. He was testifying at a war crimes
trial was he not? The defense was not permitted to challenge
witnesses in those trials. Judges threatened witnesses with
imprisonment if they did not admit to gassing in those trials.

So what is your point? By now everyone knows what those “trials” were
like and that they are the only basis for the holocaust legends.

>Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
>doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
>gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
>not Belsen, and he didn’t say they were all gassed in one
>night.

>Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
>Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
>source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
>my French.

Get used to it. The entire war crimes trial procedures are about to
be exposed for what they are in this newsgroup real soon.

Prepare for it.

Color it devasting. Most of it comes from the prosecution. And it is
all true.

Cassandra had a can opener and the worms came out.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 12:55:43 PDT 1996
Article: 62308 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:32:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 7:32:31 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 13:32:40 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 1 Sep 1996 16:52:17 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >: >Any questions?
>: >:
>: >: Yes.
>: >:
>: >: Are you enough of an idiot to believe in witches?
>:
>: >Well, yeah–I believe in witches,
>:
>: Then you are an idiot.

>Hah! I knew you would do that Matt. I deliberately left that phrase
>at the beginning of the sentence because I KNEW you would engage in
>high-school editing techniques in an attempt to make me look silly.

>You’re so predictable, Matt.

As are you as you made the expected response. It was an obvious ploy.
You think you are experienced at this?

But you are still an idiot.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 12:55:43 PDT 1996
Article: 62309 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: JewRassic Park
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 15:03:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 8:03:58 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

It is going to happen.

Where is the contrract?

Let us all look for that contracct and let us hold him to it.

And up front we know that it is impossile to deliver and as such he is
guilty of fraud.

No questions asked, Spielberng lied to Congress (a felony) and he is
lying to all of us.

The pretention of ignorancd is not an excuse.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 16:50:05 PDT 1996
Article: 62334 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer’s latest tactic.
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:56:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 6:56:34 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 09:39:06 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:11:54 -0400, Alec Grynspan
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> He told me he did wetwork for the Mossad.
>> >>
>> >> What does that make him in your pea brain?
>>
>> >Someone being libelled, Matt.
>>
>> Telling the truth is an absolute defense against libel. You told me
>> that on the phone. You discussed it in this conference.

>I’d love to see the look on the judge’s face when you present that as
>your “proof” of the truth!

>Of course, we’d have to give him oxygen first or have him breath into a
>paper bag – depending on his style of laughing himself silly.

>And you demand physical evidence because witnesses are unreliable?!?!

One man’s word against another coupled with your admission of
murdering two Americans on this conference should do it.

Going to sue me? Please do.

I have been awaiting the opportunity to post the blow by blow of DOD;s
Ken McVay pressing charges and the FBI visit.

Your’s will be truly fascinating.

Do not forget, I believe you are a bullshit artist and never even
lived in Israel much less were Mossad much less into wetwork as you
told me.

But remember that I introduced that into this conference and that you
foolishly agreed to it. You have never denied it in any manner. And
you konw that.

In any event, when you told me on the phone that you did wetwork for
the Mossad, you told me that you were a murderer for a Jewish
intelligence organization.

I can not change what you said. You can not change what you said.
Your handler knows that you told me the truth. Deal with him. You
broke the rules and you know it.

Live with it. If they decide to stop a loose mouth like yours, hell,
what do I have to do with the rules you chose as a dumb kid?

That is the way it goes. I can not change it and you can not change
it. It has been said. You could have remained quiet.

You do sound a bit desperate in this matter. Are they hassling you?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 16:50:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62335 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.unisys.com.br!rjo02.embratel.net.br!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:50:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 12:51:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 17:14:53 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> A while back a Mr.Stein posted “The Trial of Tom Moran”. He
>bellowed he was going to show that Moran was “anti-Semitic”. The only
>thing that ensued was one of his cohorts jumped in to say that Moran
>should turn himself in to some court authority. No alt.revisionism
>trial ever took place. Mr. Stein never made an attempt.

> Eventually Hilary Ostrov, “co-Webmaster” of Nizkor said she was
>going to do some “morphing” of Moran and announced “Coming Soon to a
>newgroup near you”. Nothing ever followed, even after Moran goaded her
>with a post titled from the above quote.

> Mr.Stein’s previously mentioned ‘cohort’, Mr.Edeiken, claimed he
>had lost 160 relatives in the Holocaust and Moran challenged him.
>Mr.Edeiken said he was going to post the proof, “I will this weekend”.
>Nothing ever came of it.

> Moran always gives the boasterous claims a few weeks, even months
>to sit so there is no question they were just mouthing off with
>”chutzpa”.

> Mr.Keren, ardent Holocaust salesman, stated he was going to post
>the patent to the Zyklon B to show it was worthy of use as an agent of
>mass mass extermination. He said he was going to post it “soon”. Four
>months later Moran called him on his “soon” declaration, “How soon is
>soon?” and still no posting. Eventually it showed up in Nizkor, in
>German, scanned.

> Now here is a another one. This one took place under Moran’s post
>”The Roman Empire Was” a month ago, with Moran stating in the ensuing
>exchange:
>
>Moran: 8/6
> Holocaust eyewitness testimony is better than physical evidence.
>It has to be. There is nothing else.

>Mr.Grynspan popped in: 8/6
> Odd! So far an enormous amount of physical evidence has been
>presented. It has been examined, analyzed and otherwise processed in
>great detail.

>Moran countered: 8/7
> Go for it. The “enormous” amount of physical evidence – the
>”great detail” that is.

>Mr.Grynspan tries to bluff: 8/8
> Are you sure that you want it all? In context, of course.

>Please reply here – so that there will be no mistake that you asked
>for it.

>Moran repeats his challenge: 8/9
>Go for it. The “enormous” amount of physical evidence – the “great
>detail” that is.

>Mr.Grynspan: 8/10
>First I notify your postmaster.
>Then I set up the bot. Don’t bother setting up your kill file and
>pretending that you didn’t get it.
>Do you pay by the megabyte for storage?
>It takes up 2 CD’s.

> Which clown are you – Bozo or Clarabelle?
> —————

> Bluff. Instead of posting even a teeny weeny little bit of his
>material on the “enormous amount of physical evidence” he opts to try
>to bluff Moran by saying he has 2 whole CDs of proof. His attempt was
>to try to make it look like he has so much that it would be
>impractical and expensive for Moran to follow up on.

> Two CDs take up over one Gigabyte, one billion (1,000,000,000),
>one thousand thousand thousand bytes.

> Now Moran is back to request that Mr.Grynspan post just one tenth
>of one percent (.001%) of the “enormous amount” to show he wasn’t just
>blowing hot air, lying, telling a big whopper in pressing the
>Holocaust story as true.

> Okay, Mr.Grynspan, go for it. Don’t forget this exchange is
>taking place out here where you have put your mouth to the public, so
>any talk of sending it to an individual is just evasion.

> Go for it Mr.Grynspan, just a tiny fraction of the “enormous
>amount”, the one gigabyte. Just one tenth of one percent, (.001%).

Of course he is lying. Remember, he was in the intelligence business.
Lying is a job skill, not to mention the wetwork, i.e. murder.

But then his techniques here are the until oxymoron, in the
intelligence business with his intelligence?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 16:50:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62336 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!ames!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Are there any non-Jew-hating revisionists?
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:01:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 5:01:21 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 03 Sep 96 00:52:13 GMT, [email protected] (Allan
Matthews) wrote:

>I’ve been following this group for some time and it appears to me that all the
>revisionists who post here are overt Jew-haters. I suppose this follows given
>that in order to believe the revisionist line one has to accept that there was
>and is a massive Jewish conspiracy involving the Holocaust. If this notion is
>accepted then what are the involved Jews except evil?

We know from the Demjanjuk trial that Jews are will to lie to convict
an innocent man of the charges against him. That may not be a
conspiracy but it is certainly a mind set.

What is your problem with that?

>However, no one in this newsgroup has been able to provide a coherent version
>of this supposed conspiracy; so I’m forced to conclude that revisionists
>are Jew-haters first and revisionists second, not the other way around.

There is no conspiracy claimed to the claims of the events of the
holocaust. There was no conspiracy against witches when people were
claiming to see them fly in the night sky. This is no conspiracy
against ritual, satanic child abusers even though people claim they
exist. There is no conspiracy against the Greys even though people
claim to have been abducted by them.

Witches, satanists, abduction and the holocaust are all from the
Twilight Zone. They all rely upon testimony and all lack physical
evidence. Witches and the holocaust share subborned testimony.

>Are there any revisionists around who don’t think Jews are evil or who don’t
>hate them?

Why would anyone hate the artless and ineffectual? They merit no
special attention. Israel, on the other hand, is not a religion or a
religious state. Those who benefit from the Shoah are of all
religions as you can see from this conference.

So now that you have introduced yourself as a precommitted and closed
minded participant, what do you intend to do next?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 16:50:08 PDT 1996
Article: 62347 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!eua.ericsson.se!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!newshost.convex.com!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A minor question
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:37:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 4:37:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:51:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Why is that didn’t discover anything peculiar about
># Auschwitz until after the end of the war?

>Indeed, a minor question from a very minor person, and a lie,
>too; certainly, it was known before the end of the war what
>was happening in Auschwitz.

From Soviet liberators only. The Black Book is patent nonsense. But
you know that.

>Does this mean that it was known to each and every person in
>Europe? No; it may come as a shock to the Giwer, but there
>was no CNN then. But, did the Nazis succeed to completely
>hide the truth? No.

Does it mean that the Soviets did not say a word about it between the
time they liberated it until after the war? Yes.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 18:55:41 PDT 1996
Article: 62406 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Trial of the Executioner of Sobibor
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:37:07 GMT
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On 3 Sep 1996 09:00:31 GMT, [email protected] (Nizkor USA)
wrote:

>Archive/File: places/poland/wlodawa/wlodawa.016
>Last-modified: 1993/03/22

> The Life and Fall of Wlodawa and Surroundings
> Translated by Shoshana Leszczynski
> (Transcribed by Ken McVay, [email protected])

> [Please refer to Wlodawa.001 for transcription comments]

> THE TRIAL OF THE EXECUTIONER OF SOBIBOR
> Shimon Kanz

>A jury of judges, prosecutors and defendors who arrived from
>Germany and headed by the Israeli judge Dr. Beniski, heard testimony for
>3 days at the court of Tel Aviv. The testimony was given by Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann who survived after the revolt and who had refused to go to
>Germany in order to testify at the trial of the executioners of Sobibor.
>Her testimony led to a loud and stubborn victory of the persecution
> over the defense. The more she continued in her descriptions of
>the hell she had experienced the more appeased the noise of the
>prosecutors and their questions and comments stopped and they lowered
>their heads.

>In the eyes of the Jewish judge, who himself had tasted the camps of
>Hitler, stood tears and his voice hardly found its way through throat.

Obviously not impartial but then this is Israel.

> SPECTACLES OF CRUELTY

>”Don’t ask me for exact dates”, said Mrs. Lichtmann to the provocating
>and torturing questions of the lawyers. “At that time no calender
>existed but on the other hand I remember the events of those days which
>I am describing because they will remain deeply rooted in my memory
>throughout my life.”

It appears that unlike the war crimes trials, the defense was
permitted a meaningful crossexamination.

>The awful depressed the mood and atmosphere of the courtroom. Horrow
>accompanied the route from Krakow from where the Germans had openly
>exiled her, through Miliz, Dubinki, Charaschow, and other places on the
>bloody road to Sobibor. Physical and mental pains, blows and
>humiliations. Her husband Mark Weismann was killed with stones during
>the work in the camp Postak.

“Stone him. Stone him.”

“Jehovah! Jehovah!”

Stoned? Who biblical. But maybe he really just inhaled.

>The strikes and blows of the SS-men and Ukrainians while passing the
>”Spalier” (their lines) before the entrance of the concentration points.

>Already at the beginning of her simple words the lips whispered
>automatically: “Is this possible?” From where did this woman with her
>delicate face and blue eyes, take the strength to endure these tortures?
>From where did she have the strength to tell again of her suffering?

She was a prostitute, professional witness and avoiding prosecution
for her treatment of women in the camps as were so many of the
witnesses.

> DEVILISH LAUGHTER DEAFENS THE SCREAMING OF THE DYING

Devilish laughter. Melodrama testified to in court. The evil always
laugh as devilishly as they can. Ming the Merciless did it too.

Is any adult to take this seriously? Of course not. Only holohuggers
believe this sort of crap.

>She recalls events of Jews struck and shot on Dobinko. In Dobinko the
>Jews were loaded on wagon trains that went to Charabishow.

>Planes flew over the train shooting with machine guns into the wagons.
>They lowered the planes so that we could see the faces of pilots.

And the pilots were also shooting at the drivers and the engine/horses
of these wagons, depending upon translation.

And
>when they stopped the shooting for a while we heard them laughing. The
>devilish laughter deafened the screaming of those laughing.

Devilish laughter heard from pilots in the air over the noise of the
engine. Real true holohugger fantasy life here. And they could see
the faces of pilots from inside closed wagons. This woman certainly
has to be paid for this performance.

>On the way somewhere near to Dubinko, they were taken out of the wagons
>and the men and women were forced to strip off their clothes and to
>begin dancing. The voice of Mrs. Lichtmann breaks off.

Ah, yes, dancing. Dancing to the devil’s tune no doubt. Very
efficient these Nazis.

>Her face reflects her feeling of tortures and inability to tell all. Her
>words shiver and only an echoe is heard of those awful days which
>had become from day to day more terrible.

A true whacko so far.

>They were kept on the ground only one day. It was fenced in with barbed
>wire and again they were loaded on the wagons, like cattle from the
>slaughter and brought to Sobibor. Usually the journey from Charobichow
>took several hours. But then it extended to eternity and no one,
>neither Mrs. Lichtmann nor someone else from the survivors, remembers
>how long they travelled in the closed wagons.

So who could remember how long they traveled in closed wagons when
they could remember the faces of the pilots from the closed wagons?
This person is truly psychotic.

>Nevertheless, the journey lasted for a few days and the German soldiers
>were amused by their victims. There on the station before Sobibor the
>Ukrainians broke into the wagons and plundered jewelry and those who did
>not succeed to take of the ring of their finger in time, had the ring
>taken off together with the finger… “You don’t need either the finger
>nor the ring any more” the wild Ukrainians consoled their victims! “Soon
>you will be broiled and soap will be made from you, dist”.

Certainly fingers were just pulled off.

Tell me the truth. This was written by Stephen King, right?

>The Polish farmers also waited in front of the entrance to Sobibor and
>shouted at the Jews in the transports. “Throw us your money, anyway it
>will not redeem you from death, you are going to the gas chamber.”

But it was a secret and the farmers could not know about it.

But here it is not a secret and they do know about it.

It is also an interesting speech. Maybe it translates to a chant.

You will note below that no one understood what was being said in the
same testimony.

> THE SPEECH TO THE TRANSPORTS

>The shouts of the Poles penetrated into the conscience of those weakened
>from hunger and thrust pains and agony and they started
>screaming and yelling thus deafening the camp.

>The SS-man Michel who was called by the camp inhabitants “the speaker”
>as he received the arrivals with a prepared speech, did not have what
> to say to the Polish Jews. Those were received with whips and
>gunshots. The Polish farmers also shouted at the Jews from Holland,
>Belgium, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Greece – but those did
>not understand the meaning of their shouts.

They did not understand the shouts. Then where did the translation of
the chant above come from? This witness?

>At their arrival to the camp they were welcomed with a speech by Michel:
>”You have to be disciplined. Strip off your clothes, make a nice bundle
>of them and attach them to the luggage, in order to recognize them
>immediately after the shower, because you will not receive other
>clothes here.”

Right, bundles of clothes. Every found a bundle of clothes. No one
has.

>Among the transport of 7,000 men with whom Ada Lichtmann arrived in the
>year 1942 and who went on the same day to the gas chamber only three
>women survived chosen to work in the laundry. With an indication of his
>finger the SS-commander took her out of the line and asked her for
>profession. When she answered that she was a teacher he and his
>assistants broke out in laughter: “We will teach you to be a
>laundress… Choose two other girls.” Her closest friends Bela Sobol and
>Sarka Katz were already beyond the gate on the way to the crematorium,
>but she managed to get them out of the line.

In other words, like the soap threat earlier, she has no knowledge of
what happened after that point. The gassing all her fantasy.

>The Jews believed the Germans and in astonishing order they packed their
>belongings and after an hour not even one was alive, only a few
>craftsmen were allowed to survive.

But she has no way of knowing.

> SHOUTS GOING UP TO THE SKY IN THE NIGHT

>We three organized the laundry in the camp. Until then the German
>officers too were dirty and lice-infected. In the course of time the
>laundry was enlarged and women from other transports arriving daily were
>distributed to us. The judges realized how Mrs. Lichtmann hesitates in
>her narration and talk to her kindly: “Talk, remember as much as you
>can”.

They organized a non-existant laudry and then that non-existant
laundry was expanded.

Note here that the judge leads the witness. A typical war crimes
tactic.

>The tension in the hall extended also to the memory of the woman. She
>feels the good eyes of Dr. Beinski on her and of the stenotypist, a
>Lieutenant in the police Mrs. Hela Koslowski who stops her tears while
>writing every word going out of her mouth.

>The Germans do not want to hear about what she knows to tell but what
>she has seen with her own eyes.

Who is it that does not want hearsay?

But how can she not tell about the
>shouts of women who arrived with the night transports.

That is a question and she can not tell because she did not witness
it. What in the hell does the author think witness means?

The heartbreaking
>shouts and screaming ceased for a moment and then once again beginning
>penetrating the limbs and soul. The SS-men boasted the next day that
>they raped the most beautiful women in front of the whole transport.

But she was not raped. Must have been real ugly.

>Generally the transports arrived during the day. Once on a hot summerday
>a transport arrived with thursty people as it had been for several
>days since they had tasted a drop of water. The SS-officer allowed some
>to go and fetch water, but there the “Unterscharfu”hrer” Michel was
>already waiting for them and he made them run to a dug uphole which
>served as a privy and forced them to smear their body and face with the
>excrement. And thus he brought them back to the thursty people of
>the transport. From another transport young men were forced to beat each
>other to death. The last one remaining from this terrible battle was
>shot by the Germans.

And all of this from what she did not witness. Quite amazing that
this is level of testimony that was introduced in capital trials.
Even more interesting that crossexamination was not permitted.

> HEROIC DEEDS IN SOBIBOR

>The stories of Mrs. Lichtmann and her husband whom she met in Sobibor
>after the revolt are horrifying.

>They tell how the semi-alive victims tried to maintain to the last
>moment not only their human faces but also their human soulds. They tell
>about women who tried to save their children and were desparately driven
>to perform heroic deeds: About young mothers who attempted with their
>own bodies to cover and to defend their children. They tell about the
>Jewish officer of the Spanish civil war who immediately after his
>arrival tried organizing a revolt. The Germans found out about it and
>they chose 72 men and sent them to the crematorium. This massacre was
>supervised by the “Oberscharfu”hrer” Frenzel whose trial is taking place
>at the present inferment. Returning from the scene of the murder he
>ordered the quick erection of a temporary stage out of some planks,
>called for the orchestra, gathered the women and told them to sing and
>dance.

Thank you, Steven Speilberg. Jewrassic Pork lives.

>This Frenzel once caught a boy red-handed, eating sardines, he gathered
>all the Jews from the barracks and in front of all he shot the child.

Eating sardines. Are they not Kosher?

>Sobibor did not become at once a concentration of plants and workshops.
>The camp gradually expanded, developed slowly, erecting all kind
>of workshops. There work was done only for the German officers and
>guards. Coats, dresses, furs were sewn there for them, their wives and
>mistresses. Very few Jews were sent to the forest to shop trees.
>Once the Jews of such a group attacked their guards, killed them and
>escaped. The Germans took revenge on other Jews. But all considered the
>heroism of the escaped as a miracle and dreamt of doing the same.

Giving the number of escapes from A-B and every camp this is old news.

> THE REBELLION COMMITTEE

>Sasha Pizurski who was brought to the camp with a group of prisoners of
>the Russian army immediately formed a committee to prepare a revolt. To
>this committee belonged also the heroes Leibl Feldhendler, Shaul
>Felischmann and others who strongly detested the Germans and had decided
>revenge.

Excuse me. It took people who detested to Germans to arrive to
organize this and yet the people there knew of 95%+ being gassed by
them?

>In the barracks weapons were started to appear: axes and knives. How
>dangerous this was! How much courage, cunning, patience you had to use
>in order to conceal this. Many efforst of the spirit and mind, will and
>courage had to be used to take guns, rifles, bullets from the
>storehouses. The participants of this operation were divided into
>groups. The plan was worked out to the smallest details: Every group
>and its duties – really imaginative tasks: Some had to assault the
>guardtowers where the guards sat with machineguns; some had to tempt
>the officers into coming into the workshops; others had to attack the
>guards that were wandering about. Special men had to cut off the
>telephone and electricity lines and tear down the barbed wires – to make
>passage ways.

But gassing most of the arrivals was not enough.

> THE MALIGNENT BLOOD OF THE SS-MEN IS SHED

>The revolt was fixed for October 14, 1943. 700 condemned to death
>enthusiastically took their fate into their own hands. Until the
>prearranged sign was given every group had performed its tasks well.
>Nevertheless things which had not been expected in advance happened.
>Guns started firing from both sides, axes and knives greedy for blood
>shone in the air and the whole camp changed into a battlefield. On this
>day, October 14, at 5 o’clock in the afternoon there began on the
>hellground of Sobibor the shedding of the malignent blood of the SS-men
>and their Ukrainian assistants. Those who had been so sure of themselves
>when millions of innocent women and children were led to death, seemed
>now anxious and inferior, they became confused and ran like mice into
>the trap looking for a hiding place.

Sobibor gasse millions. How can the world have missed this.

>The SS-men and the police pursued the escapers. They mobilized airplanes
>and the Polish farmers of the area to help them pursue the fleeing Jews.
>Only a few pitied the victims and did not hand them over to the Germans.
>Out of 700 escaping from Sobibor only about 30 survived. Also Mrs. Ada
>Lichtmann and two of her friends, one of them a Polish woman called
>Alina Stern-Sofermann, who is living in Israel succeeded, with help of
>some young Poles, in arriving to the partisans in the woods of Parzew
>and continued their war against the German army. But until they reached
>the forest they wandered around day and night around the camp, living
>of tree leaves and poisonous mushrooms that so burned their
>intestines that they wished to die.

They did not live off of them.

>They lowered their eyes and one of them was turning his head from side
>to side replied: “No, we did not easily agree to accept such a mission.
>It was forced upon us officially”. And the second added: “Its a good
>thing that you did not agree to come to Germany,,,, so we were enabled
>to come to Israel, a wonderful journey.” One of the present in the hall
>heard this conversation said: “The blood of the Jews shed by the Germans
>flowed like a river. Don’t you think that by defending the murderers you
>emphasize the responsibility of the German people of what took place.”
>The two defenders ignoring the question avoided answering and the
>question remained unanswered.

Most likely they would have been shot for doing so. That is the way
the holocaust works.

=====

http://www.codoh.com/

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 21:10:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62423 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 1-Auschwitz, a secret? (repost)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:28:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 2 Sep 1996 14:15:19 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu
wrote:

> Thanks to Alexander Baron, who revided the first page of the text to
> correct grammatical errors

>This post is 50% based on a study from Enrique Aynat , the remaining by
>either personnal research either Butz findings.

>First of all, the usual statement that the Germans have tried to keep secret
>their extermination policy is completely ridiculous. This ‘attempt to preserve
>the secret’ is often used to explain why the high level German documents
>captured by the Allies refer to the ‘Final Solution’ as a program for the
>expulsion of the Jews from Europe.

What you are doing well here is pointing out an entirely different
view of things at Auschwitz that is entirely contrary to the holocaust
vision.

>The Auschwitz complex was built close to an important agglomeration. Many ci-
>vilians worked there during the day and went home in the evening. On page 62
>of his 1993 study ‘Les Crematoires d’Auschwitz’, the anti-Revisionist author
>Jean-Claude Pressac (who uses German documents) writes: “For the Birkenau
>cremator- ies, the Germans gave the contracts to 12 civilian enterprises […]
>Each working site was employed between 100 and 150 workers, a third of them
>civilians.” The number of ovens was growing with years with the expansion of
>the camp, and the maintenance was unavoidable. Auschwitz was critical for the
>Allies: Synthetic rubber production was important for the Americans, and it is
>not surprising that many air photo missions concerning this camp took place.
>The huge backwardness of the Americans concerning the fabrication of synthetic
>rubber after the lost of their usual source in Malaysia in 1941-42 didn’t permit
>them any choice: they had to know everything about Auschwitz, and there’s no
>doubt that they took measures to pick up as much information as possible. We
>know, that the Americans had broken the German military codes. Over two and a
>half years there was no mention of mass gassing in any intercept in spite of
>the Germans being unaware that their codes had been cracked.

A quite significant point that is seldom noted.

>But there is even more, in ‘The Terrible Secret’, the Jewish historian Walter
>Laqueur gives some hints in spite of being no manner of Revisionist. From him
>we learn (page 25), that Auschwitz was an archipelago, that thousands of
>inmates were frequently shipped to annex camps, mixed with civilians across
>Silesia, that hundreds of civilians were working at Auschwitz 1, that journa-
>lists were travelling freely in this region…This is the same author who says
>that there were hundreds of liberations in 1942-4, among them several Jews
>(page 169). But also there were hundreds of escapes in those years!

Another quite different image of the place. Add to this the aerial
photos showing a single fence and farming right up to the fence and
things start looking much different. Imagine Schindler’s list with a
shot of a farmer waving to them from the other side of the fence.

>In ‘The Final Solution’, Reitlinger talks also of a a radio receiver that was
>active in the inmate barracks over a period of months. Admiral Canaris, chief
>of the counter-spying agency of the Third Reich, was a double agent. He gave
>much information to the Allies during the war, but said nothing about alleged
>mass liquidations at Auschwitz.

From some of the holohugger writings we know that even Himmler never
heard of it.

>There was organised resistance in the camps. Groups of communists, Jews and
>others were able to send information out of the camp. A fairly accurate picture
>of this resistance is given by the book ‘Fighting Auschwitz’.

Another very different image.

>As stated, it was impossible for the Germans to avoid some contacts between
>the inmates and the local population. Many Poles were, indeed, members of the
>resistance, and some inmates had conversations with local populations when they
>were brought out of Auschwitz to execute miscellaneous labour tasks. Sometimes
>these civilians hid food and for the inmates. Often, the SS in charge of the
>commandos were faking ignorance about those things in exchange for food or
>gifts. (See for example Garlinski, ‘Fighting Auschwitz’, pages 43-5). The
>contacts with the local population were developed in such a way that letters
>and parcels could be sent out of the camp by the internal resistant cells of
>Birkenau and Auschwitz on a regular basis. A group of the Cracovia resistance
>was in regular touch via letters. In this town were preserved 350 of those
>letters, ‘a small fraction of a very much more important total’ (Langbein,
>’Hommes et femmes a Auschwitz’, page 252). Letters successfully reached the
>Netherlands also. In spite of this, such records are used to endorse the
>extermination claim. As Butz pointed out, quoting L. Dawidowicz in her intro-
>ductory chapter (page 221):

Quite a different view but also the kind of view one would expect if
this were a camp like any other. The holohuggers can’t really
comprehend how hard it would be to actually run camps the way they
imagine. The man power requirements would be enormous. And there
were better uses for them on the Russian Front.

> “One impediment was inadequacy of Jewish documentation in spite
> of its enormous quantity… The absence of vital subjects from
> the records may be explained by the predicament of terror and
> censorship; yet, lacking evidence to corroborate or disprove, the
> historian will never know with certainty whether that absence is
> a consequence of an institutional decision not to deal with such
> matters or whether it was merely a consequence of prudent policy
> not to mention such matters. The terror was so great that even
> private personal diaries, composed in Yiddish or Hebrew, were
> written circumspectly, with recourse to Scripture and the Talmud
> as a form of esoteric expression and self-imposed reticence.”

It reminds me of the story told by Asimov of the Jewish inmate who
invented a new form of arithmetic that let him do large numbers in his
head. He was in a camp at the time and did it to relieve the boredom.
That was a “non-holocaust” type of camp also.

>Garlinski mention also this story about the radio transmitter/receiver which
>was active over 7 months in 1942 in Auschwitz and due to its contacts, the
>direction of the Silesia local AK ceil (Armia Krajowa) was soon able to find
>the wavelength used by the transmitter. (Garlinski, ‘Fighting Auschwitz’, page
>126).

Right at the time when the supposed gassing was being done at
Auschwitz. Quite a good system of secret keeping.

It is also interesting that that axiom, “if two people know it, it is
not a secret,” was suspended at all the gassing camps.

>The Armia Krajowa, or the interior (or secret) army was formed in 1942 from
>a previous resistance movement. It was organised like a real army. In 1944
>the AK could count on about 300,000 members. In Birkenau there was a secret
>organisation created in April 1942 by Colonel Karcz. Contact between the
>Birkenau organisation and the main camp of Auschwitz took place on a daily
>basis. The main task of the Karcz group was to provide information to the AK
>elements outside. In 1942 the organisation of W. Pilecki, an ex-Polish officer,
>could count on 1000 members between Auschwitz and Birkenau (Garlinski,
>’Fighting Auschwitz’, pages 97-8). In 1942-43 the resistant groups in Auschwitz
>were so powerful that they controlled the Hospital, the kitchens, the main
>office and had their agent in key positions.

And out of those 1000 not one knew the secret even though they would
have obviously made it their business to know such things.

>The activity of the resistance in the camp had a specific purpose: feed the
>Polish government in exile with exhaustive information about the events that
>were occurring in the Nazi camps. The AK could count also on the complicity of
>a few SS to transmit some messages outside (Garlinski, ‘Fighting Auschwitz’, pages
>206-8). But often, messages were simply transmitted with the liberation of
>inmates (Laqueur, ‘The Terrible Secret’, page 169 and Garlinsi, ‘Fighting
>Auschwitz’, pages 54-5 & 112).

>Communications between Poland and London were relatively easy for the Resis-
>tance. The general Bor-Komorowski, commandant of the AK, said that clandestine
>radio messages were regularly transmitted to London and that for the year
>1942-43-44, there were almost 300 such messages per month. (T. Bor-Komorowski,
>’The secret Army’, page 150). Another source of information was the microfilms
>which were sent to London on a monthly basis. The Polish Resistance had about
>100 radio transmitters which were able to reach England. But other messages
>were brought by newsmongers who were travelling to Sweden (neutral) and then
>Great Britain.

300 a month is better than ET ever did.

>Recently I obtained a copy of one of the most notorious Revisionist pamphlets:
>’The Auschwitz Lie’, by Thies Christophersen. Christophersen is an ex-German
>officer who had worked in one of the camps peripheral to Auschwitz: Raisenko.
>This booklet is not notorious not because one could qualify it as a big scien-
>tific contribution to Revisionism, it’s just a small pamphlet where an
>officer talks about his personnel experiences, (he visited Birkenau several
>times in 1944).

>The notoriety of this pamphlet, published in 1973, is mainly due to a false
>reference that can be found: a fictive Red Cross report that is supposed to
>claim that no more than 300,000 Jews died in WWII. Because of that, ‘The
>Auschwitz Lie’ received immediately the status of ‘Bible of the Revisionists’,
>and one still finds frequent reference in European books or magazine to this
>pamphlet and this fictive reference with the development (hint as sth): this
>is the Bible of the Revisionists, it contains a lie, so the Revisionist are
>just liars and it is a good thing that Revisionist material is banned since
>the public must be protected against those lies by people who will tell them
>what they must read. What amazed me the first time I took a look at it wasn’t
>the fact that this false reference was just an isolated one among several
>others that were valid, it was to see that Christophersen didn’t invent it:
>he just quoted a real Brazilian newspaper that didn’t check before publishing
>this report about the ‘Red Cross Report’. Anyway, from Christophersen, we
>learn that SS families were able to visit the soldiers without any major
>problems in Auschwitz. We learn too that inmates from Birkenau were frequently
>shipped to other camps and could establish contact with the local population.
>This fact, as I said, was subsequently confirmed by the anti-Revisionist
>historian Laqueur.

>Now, first statement: Hoess, in his ‘confession’, supposedly given without
>any coercion, testified that when Himmler ordered him to establish a program
>of mass extermination in his camp (a verbal order to keep the secret) he
>received also instructions not to discuss it with Gluecks, general inspector
>of the camps, because absolute secrecy was necessary. Can you believe that?

Holohuggers can believe anything.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 21:10:24 PDT 1996
Article: 62424 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 2-Auschwitz, a secret? (Repost)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 07:45:05 GMT
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On 2 Sep 1996 14:16:40 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu
wrote:

> We will take a look now at the usual propaganda over the war. The american
> Arthur Butz, especially, was the first to do an exhaustive inquiry about
> it. What is clear from his review of american newspapers is that the
> propaganda about mass extermination started as sson as 1942.

1933 regarding Hitler as in today’s postings.

It was
> mainly statements made by zionist officials, Chaim Weizman among others,
> that were often related to an appeal for the opening of Palestine to
> jewish immigration. Several camps or atrocities are mentionned, Belzec,
> Chelmo, Sobibor, Treblinka, and the accusations take miscellaneous forms:
> jews who are shot, report about mass electrocution of jews in Belzec,
> gasing methos in Treblinka, poison, sometimes the use of wagons were
> lethal gas is used. It looks like the usual scrap that any war is
> normally generating: propaganda. Several of those accusations were drop
> after the war.

But not before they were used to get convictions at the war crimes
trials.

> I was able to find recently a rare book: ‘the black book of the polish
> jewry’, publish at the end of 1943. This book is totally consistent
> with the war propaganda that can be found in the newspapers: Chelmo,
> Treblinka, story of atrocities, in some cases details: 250 jewish
> children allegedly killed in a jewish sanatorium, elsewhere 50 jews
> executed in a township, the book is a collection of war propaganda,
> probably a mix of thruth an falsehoods, an over few hundreds pages
> we have an idea of what kind of stories were used by several jewish
> organisations which had their large network of informant across
> Europe. Nowhere Auschwitz is mention, despite the mass gasing of jews
> is supposed to have start in the spring of 1942. The index, that contains
> a large amount of places were atrocities are allegedly comitted,
> do not contain the name of Auschwitz. Several minor stories, but
> nothing about the gasing of hundreds of thousand of jews there.

An in light of your previous post about the information coming out of
the camp this is clearly nonsense.

> Enrique Aynat made a deep inquiry with the review published
> by the polish government in exile in London, the ‘Polish fighting
> review’. It is similar stuff. Several stories about atrocities
> against jews were put in circulation by this review ( the informations
> were received in the same way that what was explained earlier, from
> the A.K.) but Auschwitz appear just few times before 1945. But
> there’s more: when it appear, it is not in connection with mass
> gasing of jews. It is about case of torture, hard work, the
> tough conditions of the inmates who have to work for the military
> production. An example of that can be find in the 1 july 1942 article
> (n0 47) where it is mention that the German use syringue to kill
> prisonners of Bikernau. There’s a base of thruth: the method
> was at least used for the dying prisonners who were affect by the
> catastrophic typhus epidemy of 1942, but there’s no evidence that
> it was use to liquidate them because of an extermination policy:
> euthanasy was the real purpose. In several other articles during
> 2 years, very ‘low level’ details about some inmates who died
> are given, and in a case it is say that few hundred russian
> prisonners were gased at a specific date. What is astonishing here
> is that over 2 years and a half, the systematic murder of hundreds
> of thousands of jews seems to be ignored while the polish resistance
> is suppose to be aware of a single gasing of russian pows at a time.
> There is also a reference to the gasing of polish childrens at the end of
> 1943, despite today we never speak about the gasing of poles. But
> among the huge amount of propaganda that was published over those
> years, this is all. Before the mid 1944, the atrocities were generally
> not concerning Auschwitz and when it was th case, the mass gasing
> of jews was not mention. I said a couple of weeks ago that perhaps
> I saw once such a story, but I’m unsure if I’ve not dream it.

> The story about the mass gasing of jews in Auschwitz began
> really in the summer of 1944 in the allied newspapers, and then we
> can say that the persons who were spreading the atrocities stories
> had no choice: the other camps were shut down several months before.

> First remark: such stories are not ‘a proof’ of mass gasing,
> simply because propaganda and false accusations were always a
> part of war, and second because those accusations were made
> in connection with a call to allied countries for negotiations
> with germans. The zionist leaders of that time had clearly an objective
> in the mind: put pressure on the British and force them to allow
> the opening of the Palestine borders to jewish immigration.
> Israel was not existing yet, and the arabs were the majority there.
> Several declarations in the newspapers let no ambiguity about it.

> Second remark: the real problem is that it is hard to believe that
> such mounstruous events, the gasing of hundreds of thousand of jews
> over 2 years, could be absent of publications like the ‘black book
> of the Polish jewry’ while minor stories about the executions of
> 50 jews in a small township are present. That book was publish
> expresselly for the sake of propaganda, to talk exhaustivelly about
> the anti jewish persecutions. And it is not because Auschwitz was
> ‘secret’. We can have a clear indication of that with the anti-revisionnist
> author Martin Gilbert in ‘Auschwitz and the allied’, p 340. After
> an exhaustive review of the documentation, he conclude that Auschwitz
> was absent of the war propaganda before the mid 1944.
> There it’s like to say that events like those that happend in
> Rwanda did exist over 2 years but that despite information was
> collected on a daily based by A.K. agents in Bikernau and Auschwitz 1,
> nobody seem aware of it. Imagine 2 Rwandas over 2 years and nobody
> within that country noticed anything during this period except
> at the end.

> Third remark: such an absence of propaganda would be more acceptable
> for camps like Belzec, simply because those one were isolated,
> there was not an important towniship beside, there was not hundreds
> of civilians who worked there, inmates were not frequently reshiped
> in the vicinity of the camps and able to have contact with civilians,
> Belzec was not of any strategical importance for the american
> since it hadn’t any Buma plan industry: the inmates were suppose
> to arrive there and to be killed quickly, nothing else.
> But what we have in the WWII propaganda is the opposite: no possible
> secret for Auschwitz, but it is there that an unexplanable silence
> was keepen. It must be say also that according to the post war
> confessions, Auschwitz was suppose to be the ‘metropol’ of the
> extermination, the main camp. At Nuremberg, the bulk of the
> extermination story was built on Auschwitz.

> Fourth remark: The story about the ‘revelation of the secret’ is
> of an uncommensurable absurdity. The WRB report, published in 1944,
> is suppose to be an accurate description of the nature of Auschwitz.
> The american press revealed that 2 inmates escaped and were able to go
> in Switzerland to give a very accurate description of the gassing
> procedure and the installations in Auscwitz. The authors of the WRB
> report stayed anonymous during 16 years despite it had be more credible
> to present those ones immediatelly.

> They stayed anonymous for 16 years and the jewish
> writter Reitlinger was a bit bothered in the first edition of the final
> solution about this fact but those ones were produced before the
> second edition of his book 150 miles away from his Sussex domicile
> (London). Rudolph Vrba, author of a best seller a bit later, ‘I
> cannot forgive’. Vrba is suppose to had the false identity of Walter
> Rosenberg in Auschwitz despite he wrote that the other inmates called
> him ‘Rudi’.

> Several, a lot of contradictions exist in Vrba’s ‘memories’,
> and Alexander Baron talk about it in the book he wrote. Vrba
> affirmations were so contradictory that he was obligated to admit
> that he lied at the Zundel trial. Just those contradictions could take
> few hundreds lines.

> Let say just that when I read Vrba’s book, I saw that his escape
> had a specific purpose: give a warn to the whole world about the fate
> of the jews in Auschwitz, ‘breaking the secret’ in other words. One
> have just to read the previous message to realize that it is ridicoulous.
> There was hundreds of escapes and liberations before him
> Despite the inconsistences in his testimony, Vrba’s credibility is
> essantial. The defenders of the legend can conceed that an obscur
> eye witness could have lie, but Vrba is a kind of detonnator, a domino:
> since he talk about his entertainment with F. Muller at the camp, since
> the key eyewitness Sonderkommando F. Muller said also that he spoke
> with Vrba several times in Auschwitz, if one of the testimony is false,
> the other collapse. If Vrba testimony is false, then one would have
> to explain why the real authors of the WRB report never challendge
> Vrba’s story. And then we would conclude that the WRB report wasn’t
> writen by an ex-inmate but by higher rank propagandist who had a large
> amount of datas available: this is where the story began.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 23:30:17 PDT 1996
Article: 62455 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Sinking McVay – down, down, down
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:55:28 GMT
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On Mon, 2 Sep 1996 09:57:49, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:

>>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>>
>>> Having left in Nizkor’s footer, I canceled the first posting of
>>>this, but not before this response appeared, which was only a matter
>>>of 4 minutes. Since I canceled that one and the resoponse was
>>>attached, I am reposting it under this corrected version.
>>>
>>>In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
>>>(tom moran) writes:
>>>
>>>> So here we have McVay, using little sexual innuendos to attack
>>>>his opponents. Not only that, the webmaster of the anti-hate web page
>>>>attacks the unknown family member of his opponent. Is he in some
>>>>spiritual abyss? Seems so.
>>>
>>>Nah. Just sounds like he’s irritated with your lies and idiocy.
>>>
>>> Joel Rosenberg

>> So here we have this Rosenberg endorsing McVay’s lashing out at a
>>family member of his opponent. It was only four minutes from the time
>>I posted the article. It would take, say, at least a minute before it
>>got to Rosenberg, he would read it, another minute, and then with
>>haste, he typed in his firey endorsement, and a minute to return.

>> Too bad neither he or McVay can respond directly. If they could,
>>one would expect they would, but they didn’t, so they can’t.
>> How wimpy.

>If you’re offended at being put down, go away. Or sober up. Or buy a clue.
>Or live with it.

And of course the objective is to drive people away rather than
discussion the holocaust. But then people are invited here by the
holohuggers for discussion, are they not?

Of course not. That lie has been exposed often enough by the
holohuggers themselves, Add yourself to the list of those who have
exposed the holohugger lie.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:02 PDT 1996
Article: 62478 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 12:52:33 GMT
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On 3 Sep 1996 16:40:23 GMT, [email protected] (Charles Don Hall)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 2 Sep 1996 08:36:39 GMT, [email protected](Charles) wrote:
>>
>>>In <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>[email protected](Charles) wrote:
>>
>>>>> Ms. “Mulhern”‘s essential argument, based on her unrelenting
>>>>>refrain
>>>>>(obsession?) that the $1 million of U.S. taxpayer money that the
>>>>>reported Clinton fundraiser, multimillionaire Hollywood mogul Stephen
>>>>>Spielberg, was given amounts to just a penny-per-taxpayer (she said
>>>>>$.25 in her earlier posts, but who’s counting?) seems to be this:
>>>>>
>>>>Look, can you count? $1 million divided by taxpayers in the U.S. would
>>>>be a lot less than both her calculations. Do you have a calculator?
>>
>>> Look, are you so dense — or in denial — that you genuinely cannot
>>>understand this?: that the fact that each and every U.S. taxpayer was
>>>forced by their government to contribute “just” a few cents to
>>>multimillionaire Spielberg for his pet media project is not even, IMO,
>>>necessarily the main point.
>>
>> Every citizen what no forced to contribute. Every citizen was force
>>to go into a deeper national debt for this million dollars. It is
>>only when there is a budget surplus that anyone can talk about
>>contributing to anything.

>You two are seriously confused about the nature of government.

>Here in the US, the government is elected by the people. The
>government doesn’t force us to pay for projects we don’t want.
>We (that is, we-the-people-as-a-whole) want these projects,
>and that’s why we consistently vote for politicians who support
>them.

My website carries a guest editorial by Davy Crokett.

To wit …

“NOT YOURS TO GIVE”

from: The Life of Colonel David Crockett
compiled by: Edward S. Ellis (Philadelphia, Porter & Coates, 1884).


     
One day in the United States house of Representatives, a bill was
taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a
distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made
in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when
David Croquet arose:


     
“Mr. Speaker — I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased,
and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering
for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in
this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our
sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice
to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove
that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of
charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as
individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in
charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate
a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to
us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker,
the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office
to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government
was in arrears to him.


     
“Every man in the House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without
the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a
debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a
charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much
money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I
cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week’s pay to the
object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will
amount to more than the bill asks.”


     
He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage,
and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and
as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few
votes, and of course, was lost.


     
Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation,
Crockett gave this explanation:


     
“Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the
Capitol with some other members of Congress, when our attention was
attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a
large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could.
In spite of all that could be done, many house were burned and many
families made houseless, and besides, some of them had lost all but
the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so
many women and children suffering, I felt that something ought to be
done for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating
$20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed
it through as soon as it could be done.


     
“The next summer, when it began to be time to think about the
election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my
district. I had no opposition there, but as the election was some
time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a
part of my district in which I was more of a stranger than any other,
I saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged
my gait so that we should meet as he came to the fence. As he came
up, I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought,
rather coldly.


     
“I began: ‘Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called
candidates and –‘


     
” ‘Yes, I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once
before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose
you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time
or mine. I shall not vote for you again.’


     
“This was a sockdolager … I begged him to tell me what was the
matter.


     
“‘ Well, Colonel, it is hardly worthwhile to waste time or words upon
it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter
which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the
Constitution, or that you wanting the honesty and firmness to be
guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me.
But I beg your pardon for expressing it in that way. I did not intend
to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly
to a candidate for the purpose of insulting or wounding you. I
intended by it only to say that your understanding of the Constitution
is very different from mine; and I will say to you what, but for my
rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be honest …
But an understanding of the Constitution different from mine I cannot
overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held
sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who
wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the more
honest he is.’


     
“‘I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake
about it, for I do not remember that I gave any vote last winter upon
any constitutional question.’


     
” ‘No, Colonel, there’s no mistake. Though I live here in the
backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington
and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers
say that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to
some sufferers by a fire in Georgetown. is that true?’


     
“‘Well, my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But
certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours
should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering
women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury,
and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I
did.’


     
” ‘It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the
principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the
Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that
has nothing to do with the question. The power of collecting and
disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be
entrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue
by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how
poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to
his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge
where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States
who can ever guess how much he pays to the government.
So you see, that while your are contributing to relieve one, you are
drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had
the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of
discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $2,000,000 as
$20,000. If you have the right to give to one, you have the right to
give to all; and, as the Constitution neither defines charity nor
stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and
everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity,
and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive
what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and
favoritism, on one hand, and for robbing the people on the
other. No. Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity.
Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please,
but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that
purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this county as in
Georgetown, neither you nor any other member of Congress would have
thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two
hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their
sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week’s pay, it
would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men in and
around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving
themselves of even a luxury of life. The congressmen chose to keep
their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not
very creditably; and the people about Washington, no doubt, applauded
you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by giving what was
not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the
Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is
authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else.
Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the
Constitution.


     
” ‘So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I
consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the
country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the
limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security
for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not
make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and
you see that I cannot vote for you.’


     
“I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and
this man should go talking, he would set others to talking, and in
that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the
fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want
to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him:


     
” ‘Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had
not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be
guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many
speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have
said here at your plow has got more hard sound sense in it than all
the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it
that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would
have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me
again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be
shot.’


     
“He laughingly replied: ‘Yes Colonel, you have sworn to that once
before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You say that
you are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it
will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the
district, you will tell people about this vote, and that your are
satisfied it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what
I can to keep down opposition, and, perhaps, I may exert some little
influence in that way.’


     
” ‘If I don’t, said I, ‘I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that
I am in earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or
ten days, and if you will get up a gathering of the people, I will
make a speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.’


     
” ‘No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section, but we have
plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare
for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few
days, and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. This is Thursday;
I will see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on
Friday, and we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable
crowd to see and hear you.’


     
” ‘Well, I will be here. But one thing more, before I say good-bye.
I must know your name.’


     
” ‘My name is Bunce.’


     
” ‘Not Horatio Bunce?’


     
” ‘Yes.’


     
” ‘Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have
seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very
proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.’


     
“It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He
mingled but little with the public, but was widely know for his
remarkable intelligence and incorruptible integrity, and for a heart
brimful and running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed
themselves not only in word but acts. He was the oracle of the whole
country around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of
his immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him before, I had
heard much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should
have had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain,
no man could now stand up in that district under such a vote.


     
“At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our
conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man i stayed all
night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and a
confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before.


     
“Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and
under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept
him up until midnight, talking about the principles and affairs of
government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got
all my life before.


     
“I have know and seen much of him since, for I respect him — no, that
is not the word — I reverence and love him more than any living man,
and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell
you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted
and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world
by storm.


     
“But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue,
and to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good
many whom I had not know before, and they and my friend introduced me
around until I had got pretty well acquainted — at least, they knew
me.


     
“In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They
gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech
by saying:


     
” ‘Fellow-citizens — I present myself before you today feeling like a
new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or
prejudice, or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I
can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service
than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for
the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I
should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you.
Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only.’


     
“I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the
appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I
closed by saying:


     
” ‘And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that
the most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was
simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr.
Bunce, convinced me of my error.


     
” ‘It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to
the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert
and that he will get up here and tell you so.’


     
“He came up on the stand and said:


     
” ‘Fellow-citizens — it affords me great pleasure to comply with the
request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a
thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully
perform all that he has promised you today.’


     
“He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy
Crockett as his name never called forth before.


     
“I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and
felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that
the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man and the honest
hearty shout they produced is worth more to me than all the honors I
have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or ever shall
make, as a member of Congress.


     
“Now, sir,” concluded Crockett, “you know why I made that speech
yesterday.


     
“There is one thing now to which I will call your attention. You
remember that I proposed to give a week’s pay. There are in that
House many very wealthy men — men who think nothing of spending a
week’s pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they
have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made
beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country
owed the deceased — a debt which could not be paid by money — and
the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so
insignificant a sum as $10,000, when weighed against the honor of the
nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with
them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it
is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and
many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it.”

—–

If you got this far you know there is a difference between the
consitution and policy. The government has no right to policy as it
is not granted in the constitution.

The government has no delegated powers outside of Article 1, Section
8, period. Anything beyond those powers is revolutionary material.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:03 PDT 1996
Article: 62492 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!hal.COM!nntp-sc.barrnet.net!ratatosk.yggdrasil.com!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A minor question
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:36:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 4:36:33 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 2 Sep 1996 19:39 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> Why is that didn’t discover anything peculiar about Auschwitz until
>>after the end of the war?

> I dunno… maybe it was becaust THERE WAS A WAR GOING ON!!!!!

Once again I have made the mistake of thinking that holohuggers are
familiar with the subject.

Please explain the lack of Soviet discoveries from the time they
liberated Auschwitz until after the war. That is Soviet discoveries
only, not Black Book stories.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:04 PDT 1996
Article: 62498 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 07:39:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 12:40:19 AM PDT 1996
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On 04 Sep 96 07:39:18, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Danny Mittleman] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines] [Tuesday >September 03 1996 10:25][*][0]*>

> >> Of course, after all of the above, I do wish to remind you
> >> that to the best of my belief, Alec Grynspan is a bullshit
> >> artist and we never involved in wetwork or even the Mossad.

> DM> Ah yes. So it was all just libel on your part… So Alec
> DM> got to you
> DM> just the way he said he would and turned you into a
> DM> blubbering idiot?
> DM> Well, those men in the white van will be here soon now…

>Notice that when I tell him that I was virtually a babe-in-arms when
>I became a mascot and “junior member” of the Mossad and deny any
>”wetwork” (outside of a little plumbing around the house), this
>becomes me being a bullshit artist.

If you deny wet work now why did you claim it on the phone?

But then you were a member of a murderous organization which makes you
as guilty of murder as a camp guard for the SS.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:05 PDT 1996
Article: 62502 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: What the H*ll’s left in Iraq to bomb, craters?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:03:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:56:43 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> During the Gulf “war” there was a lot of crowing about how
>popular it was in America. The papers were claiming Bush was a shoe in
>for re-election.

> Any support was called simply “Support the Troops”, none of it
>focusing on any cause.

> Even during the “Support the Troops” parade in Hollywood, the
>grand marshall made a point it wasn’t to support the cause. (He
>probably caught some flack from the dominant influence there.)

> At any demonstrations the standard ratio was less than a hundred
>for the war, and thousands against the war. The ones for it in L.A.
>were half JDL foaming at the mouth.

> In the press, N.Y. and L.A. Times, there appeared 45 columns
>egging the country on to war. Of the 45, 42 were Jewish writers. Since
>then many goyims who used to write for Israel have backed off. Now it
>is almost only the Jews, all by their lonesome.

And the other three were part of the amen corner.

But realize that they were being used by Bush as part of the
Reagan-Bush strategy to bring down the Soviet Union, and it worked.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:05 PDT 1996
Article: 62513 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:34:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 4 Sep 1996 18:03:54 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>CHRIST SODOMIZER ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Actually, Bob, from what I’ve seen here the people being called
>: ‘revisionists’ are not making nearly as many personal attacks as the
>: people I’ll call ‘defenders of the Jewish victim-theory’ for lack of
>: better designation.

>It depends, of course, on what you consider a personal attack. Ever
>since Mr. Stele claimed that revisionists never, ever engage in name
>calling, I’ve made a point of calling attention to the many, many
>instances when they have. It’s been a demanding job–there are so
>many of them. In my opinion, Matt Giwer all by himself outdoes the
>entire “holohugger” team.

That is because, without cause, I was libelled in a manner that is
worthy of being answered in blood.

And you must remember that blood libels justify any response.

But you know that.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:06 PDT 1996
Article: 62514 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:38:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:07:55 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>>Marty Kelley writes…
>>>On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, tom moran wrote:
>>
>>>> If one of your students should turn in a paper with revisionistic
>>>> views, how would you grade him?
>>>
>>>That’s a fascinating question, and it’s one which I often ask my classes
>>>to consider. I haven’t encountered such a situation, because I’ve been
>>>lucky enough to have mostly sane students. Every semester, I introduce the
>>>assignment on argument and research by discussing in some detail what
>>>constitutes valid evidence in an argument. Perhaps you would like to
>>>write a letter to my class–or send them e-mail, since they will
>>>eventually be using e-mail–explaining what you consider the proper
>>>approach to researching historical events.
>>
>> Whenever I teach an introductory class (I’ve taught both Introduction
>> to Business and Introduction to MIS) I assign the students to write a
>> letter to the editor of the local newspaper. While I generally
>> encourage them to write on a topic loosely related to the syllabus of
>> the course, I let them know that what is important is that they write
>> about something they care about.
>>
>> I have had a couple of students over the years choose to write their
>> letters about abortion. Some of the students have taken a position on
>> abortion directly counter to my own.
>>
>> I have graded them on the logic and structure of their argument. I
>> have found that I am able to do this even if I don’t agree with their
>> premises. I don’t see why any good instructor would have a problem
>> with this.
>>
>> To relate this with denier writing in alt.revisionism: there is a wide
>> disparity in quality among denier writers. Milt Kleim, for example,
>> can string together a decent argument. Greg Raven is dishonest, but
>> his logic structure is usually valid. Ross Vicksell was an excellent
>> writer and debater. Other deniers range from moderately literate to
>> barely able to string together multiple thoughts. I can judge all this
>> knowing full well the content of denier posts is garbage.
>>
>>>> How could you grade him –
>>>> subjectively? It seems clear from your posted attitudes that you
>>>> couldn’t possibly treat his paper with anything but prejudice.
>>>
>>>Again, this is a fascinating general topic for me and for many
>>>teachers–how do we deal with students whose prejudices surface in their
>>>papers? The most memorable example of this that I’ve encountered was a
>>>student several years ago who responded to an article called “The Media’s
>>>Stereotypes of Arabs” by claiming that he thought that the stereotypes
>>>were all TRUE–that he thought most Arabs were likely to be terrorists,
>>>murderers, or ignorant lowlifes. When we met to discuss revising his
>>>paper, I told him I really couldn’t tell him how to “improve” his
>>>argument, since it was so obviously full of prejudice. We talked for a
>>>while, and he eventually told me that he disliked Arabs because he had
>>>family in Israel and he feared for their safety. I asked him then what
>>>he’d say to a student who tried to argue that stereotypes of Jews were
>>>true, and he began to understand what was wrong with his thesis. He ended
>>>up writing a fairly good paper about why he held the stereotypes that he
>>>did–I don’t know if he became less of a bigot, but his paper was fairly
>>>thoughtful.

> Where did you say you ‘teach’?

Kansas City Institute of Spiritual Enlightenment.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62516 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: uk.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: What the H*ll’s left in Iraq to bomb, craters?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:14:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:17:19 GMT, [email protected] (Brenda Tipton)
wrote:

>MCX wrote:

>>It is amazing how during election years Saddam decides to raise hell.
>>You would think that some of the American sheeple would one day think
>>for themselves. Alas that day will not come until it is too late.

>I should think it’s pretty obvious to everyone that Saddam is scared to death
>that the Republicans will get back in the White House. He’s just giving Clinton
>a little insurance money. Didn’t anyone else notice that this latest offensive
>came just after the Dick Morris scandal made the front pages of every paper in
>the world? How considerate of Saddam to knock Morris off the front page.

Going back a ways, Iraq gave Clinton another one at one of his low
points when they mobilized near the border of Kuwait. Clinton talked
tough. They withdrew.

Except for one minor point, the size of the operation was such that it
would have taken two months to stage and would have stood out like a
sort thumb on satellite photos. But Clinton was surprised by it, so
he said, something patently impossible.

Maybe Iraq is in the drug business also.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:08 PDT 1996
Article: 62517 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: uk.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: The Hussein-Clinton ticket
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:15:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 16:02:42 +0000, Stig wrote:

>Duncan R. MacMillan wrote:
>>
>> How much is Saddam Hussein being paid to conduct his bomb-dropping
>> escapades at such a convenient time?
>>
>Probably A little covert capital investment, and less intransigence from the US
>when it comes to upholding the UN sanctions post-election. One is reminded how the
>US covertly delivered military merchandise to Syria, and persuaded the EC to drop
>its trade sanctions against Syria too, in exchange for Syrian support in the ’90-91
>Gulf war. This, of course, was done in violation of US trade ban against Syria for
>its support of “terrorist causes”.

And more recently permitting the arming Bosnians while he was
condemning the idea.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:09 PDT 1996
Article: 62520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is amazing among the holohuggers
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 08:22:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 1:22:17 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 1 Sep 1996 21:56:09 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># They really believe in spirits.

>You don’t have a job.

Why would I need one? When do you plan to retire, child?

># Even more interesting, they believe in the Devil/Satan.

>You’re unemployed.

Right. Feels great. No job, no boss, no shit. You should try it
some time 40 years from now.

># Even more interesting there are more fewer atheists than
># there are people who believe in the devil.

>You retired at the age of 46, probably because no one was
>willing to hire someone like you.

I do not need the money. Is that not clear enough? Why should I work
why I do not have to work?

But of course you have to work or go live on the street. But you
found a great job as a customer service rep. Keep up the good work
and don’t lose your temper.

># These are the holohuggers.

>You are a failure.

Then why do I have enough income to retire on?

># They are superstitious, religion beiieving basket cases.

>You are a loser.

Want to drop by some day for Pina Colada on the balconey?

># They are so stupid that they really believe there was a
># Moses, that the Hebrews were in Israel and an dozen other
># things to stupid ot mention.

>You are going down the tubes.

># They are dumber than dogshit.

>They have jobs. You don’t.

They have to do what others tell them to do or be fired. Like you.

What is your problem? Can’t deal with someone who was able to retire
early? Think that you can do it? Give it your best shot. Twenty
years from now, let me know how you are doing.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:09 PDT 1996
Article: 62522 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:46:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 1:47:09 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:31:36 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, tom moran wrote:

>> [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>> >> Where did you say you ‘teach’?
>> >
>> > In my first sentence up top.
>>
>> “MIS”?

>”Management Information Systems” It’s a pretty well-known field, Mr.
>Moran. You could have looked it up.

What physical location does MIS designate?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:10 PDT 1996
Article: 62523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 10:16:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 3:16:13 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:33:53 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Have you found any physical evidence for it yet? The
># world is waiting.

>There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
>cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
>in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.

Cyanide traces are everywhere. No significant amount of human remains
anywhere, even Babi Yar, three possible documents if you are paranoid
enough. No photographs fo interest whatsoever.

But you konw all of that.

And still you lie to support holohuggery.

Why?

Are you a vegan missing basic proteios?

>Why don’t you find a job? You’re boring, Matty. I don’t think
>this very early retirement was a good idea. You’re really
>going down the tubes.

Your jealously is overwhelming. Why do yo not retire?
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:11 PDT 1996
Article: 62526 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: for those who have any turther questions
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:16:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:16:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

If anyone is curious about gryn.org …

First part of his domain is 206.231.240.144
Last part is 206.231.240.151
——————-
The domain’s above and below him share one thing in common: They are
recieving DNS services from uu.net

That is the extent of it. gryn.org is also recieving mail services
>from uu.net, or at least they are one of his mail exchangers (if his
is down
or whatnot).

The whois record is as follows:
——————
[rs.internic.net]
FidoNet NET250 (GRYN-DOM)
152 McMorran Crescent
Thornhill, Ontario
L4J 2Y2
Canada

Domain Name: GRYN.ORG

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Grynspan, Alec (AG50) [email protected]
905-889-3995

Record last updated on 05-Jan-95.
Record created on 01-Nov-94.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.1
NS.UU.NET 137.39.1.3

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
———————-
gryn.org nameserver=ns.uunet.ca
gryn.org nameserver=ns.uu.net
gryn.org nameserver=ns.it.ca
gryn.org nameserver=ns2.uunet.ca
ns.uunet.ca IP=142.77.1.1
ns.uu.net ip list=
206.6.1.1 137.191.2.149 0.8.0.69 206.6.1.127 198.6.1.1
206.6.1.70 206.6.1.20 137.39.1.3 198.6.1.127
ns.it.ca 199.45.111.1
ns2.uunet.ca 142.77.1.5

Basically, a list of all nameserver’s which are authoratative for the
domain
of gryn.org. No different than if I paid mci.net to perform
nameservice for
my domain.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:11 PDT 1996
Article: 62527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:19:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:19:38 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 07:01 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

> We have below here a summary of the Matt Giwer philosphy of the world.
> To sum: “Anyone who doesn’t wee the world exactly as Matt Giwer sees it
> is an idiot.” This philosophy works very well as all questions are
> answered by it. And as a further bonus, since no one sees the world
> exactly as Matt Giwer sees it, everone is an idiot. Except for Matt
> Giwer.

Another holohugger defending belief in non-existent gods.

It is truly amazing that this person wishes to be taken as rational.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:12 PDT 1996
Article: 62529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:22:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:22:42 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 15:41:13 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: I had to break the truth to you slowly.
>:
>: Anyone who identifies with anything that is without rational
>: foundation is an idiot. That includes Christians, Moslems and Jews.
>: They are all idiots. But you know that.

>Actually, I don’t know that. I’m an agnostic, but I don’t feel
>it necessary to advance my position through name-calling.

Accurate descriptions are not name calling.

>: Try getting over it. There is no god(s), period. Therefore there is
>: no religion. Therefore there is nothing of interest that is in any
>: manner related to anything like it.
>:
>: Is this too hard for your to grasp?

>I have a feeling it’s too hard for anybody to grasp, Matt. “No god,
>therefore, no religion.” Priests and Rabbis believe in god, and god
>does not exist; therefore, Priests and Rabbis do not exists.

People exist with those titles but it is no different from the title
Soothsayer.

>Thousands of years of human history will have to be revised. Not
>to mention logic.

History need not be revised. It stands as a testiment to the common
occurance of idiocy.

>: Anyone who hung on to any religion for any reason and was persecuted
>: for it was simply an idiot. Anyone who hangs on to any religion today
>: is an idiot.
>:
>: That means that all Christians, Jews and Moslems among many others are
>: idiots. All of them.

>To quote Oliver Cromwell–“In the bowels of Christ, I beseech you;
>bethink yourself that you may be wrong.” Your arrogance is really,
>truly, sickening, Matt.

If you want to go crawling around in the shit in the bowels of a dead
man go right ahead.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:13 PDT 1996
Article: 62530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:33:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:33:45 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 5 Sep 1996 00:02:53 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> > Sure, Matty poo. You have bragged about your memberships in
>> >organizations
>
>> You are a liar. I have only mentioned in my years being a member of
>> the NRA and the Libertarian Party.

> And the World Science Fiction Convention.

There is no such organization. But you know that.

>> What would really be interesting would be to find you are really an
>> attorney and to transmit your posts to the Penn Bar. It would then be
>> up to them.

> Easy enough to check. Matty poo. There is a book called
>Martindale-Hubbell available at any library.

> Should you wish the number of the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania
>(attorney registration office I would be gald to supply it). Please, Matty poo,
>please, please, please make a complaint to them. I will even promise to post the
>testimony you give at the deposition.

> –YFE #40290

Thank you very much.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:14 PDT 1996
Article: 62531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:03:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:03:52 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:29:10 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>I see that Mr. Moran has responded to a number of posts in ths thread, but
>has NOT responded to my initial message. I would therefore like to repeat
>the pertinent parts of the post:

>Tom Moran wrote:
>>Would you invite a revisionist into your classroom?

>I generally wouldn’t, because I teach a writing class, not a history
>class. Further, since Holocaust denial is an exercise in
>pseudo-knowledge that is on a par with “creation
>science” and UFO “studies”, I believe it is worth studying as a
>phenomenon, but not as a valid historical perspective.

Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this
holocaust of yours?

But some day get around to posting your evidence of your claim.

And when you do so, remember that I was the first to post the
comparison of holocaust to UFO abductions, RSCA, and witchcraft.

And then the gradeschoolers here started chanting, “I’m not but you
are.”

But still you folks have only testimony on the order of a poor horro
story writer and zero physical evidence,

>However, I would like to give you a chance, Mr. Moran: I hereby invite you
>to come visit my composition classes at Pima Community College, and to
>tell them all about Holocaust revisionism. I teach Tuesday and Thursday
>mornings; more details can be arranged if you accept my invitation. Please
>be aware that this is an invitation to speak to the class only; i am
>unable to provide you with any financial assistance for travel and
>lodging. Perhaps some of your supporters in the Denier community can fund
>your visit.

Pima County? Which state? Should I get out your way, may I take you
up on the offer? It will require you to handout one work prior to my
lecture with the notification that it will be the subject of criticism
in the next lecture. The terms of this deal requires that the source
not be disclosed.

>[snip]

>Every semester, I introduce the
>assignment on argument and research by discussing in some detail what
>constitutes valid evidence in an argument. Perhaps you would like to
>write a letter to my class–or send them e-mail, since they will
>eventually be using e-mail–explaining what you consider the proper
>approach to researching historical events.

Would you like to give me that email address and explain how they will
be using it? I will conduct the discussion. The topic will be
“Verisimilitude in Literature.”

It sounds like fun and certainly will be quite instructive for all
concerned.

This will fit in quite well with your purpose of researching history
events.

>[snip]

>> Why don’t you line up a lesson plan for the kids. Tell them you
>> are going to have a debate on the Internet with one person, Moran, and
>> then have them do a critique and we can review all the responses out
>> here.

>Happily. Once the class gets rolling, I will invite students who are
>interested in commenting on the discussions in alt.revisionism to do so
>here as extra credit. (It’s rather outside the scope of the class’s main
>goals, although I suppose it could work for the unit on linguistic
>ethnography…)

A community college course on composition has something to do with
linguistic ethnography?

You mean how to make the dialog sound ethnic? What might a.r have to
do with that?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:15 PDT 1996
Article: 62532 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:27:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:27:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 23:58:05 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:51:20 -0700, Brian Harmon
>> wrote:
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >
>> >> I hate to break this to you but there are no witches. There are no
>> >> priests. There are no rabbis. There are only deluded people.
>> >> Witches, priests, rabbis and whackos are all the same, whackos.
>> >Mental illness is such a sad thing to watch.
>> >[whether or not you think religious figures are ‘whackos’,
>> > doesn’t mean they aren’t actually religious figures, matt.]

>> Excuse me. I did not realize you were a brain dead, religious true
>> believer. Go thy way, thy faith has saved thee.
>> Come back when you can think for yourself.

>sigh, such wit.

>Whether or not you think they’re deluded, there still are
> people called priests, rabbis, and wiccans.

It only works that way if words and titles have no meaning. An LEO
enforces the law. A scientist does science. A priest has an empty
title as there is nothing for him to do that is more than any
charlatan can do.

>I never said that they have ‘connections to god’ or perfom
> miracles, Matt.

But are now pretending stupidity.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:16 PDT 1996
Article: 62535 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:32:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 1:32:44 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28491 alt.politics.white-power:42027 alt.revisionism:62535

On 4 Sep 1996 03:44:48 GMT, [email protected] (Bob Beck) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Anyone who has seen the stereotype of the spoiled child can see it in
>: the holohuggers.

>But it’s more readily seen in the behaviour of the revisionists, as they
>call themselves, who can never resist name-calling, but throw themselves
>down on the floor and scream (even literally, for all I know) at the
>slightest suggestion of it coming from others.

And with this you do what you editted out, the gradeschool, “I’m not
but you are,” response.

And you do this despite your knowledge that any newcomer, no matter
how quiet his approach, who continues to disagree is blood libeled by
holohuggers. And as you know any indentification a person in nay
manny with nazi or antisemitic is a blood libel — meaning as do the
holohuggers, that it is worthy of being answered in blood.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:16 PDT 1996
Article: 62536 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Being Both Jewish And Nazi
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:20:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 1:21:03 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 05 Sep 96 00:08:18 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
>> I see. So it is of no importance what the ADL say. You may interpret
>> their words and their opinion s to give them a meaning they never had. The
>> ADL has never made the statement — that believing it is “possible” that the
>> Holocaust never happened demonstrates anti-Semitism. Thank you for pointing
>> out that Lyin’ Al was, indeed lying.

>Let me get this straight, questioning the Holocaust is not “anti-Semitism” in
>the ADL’s book?

Right from the ADL’s book and repeated on Nizkor is that questioning
details of the Holocaust is the promotion of hate.

BTW: Harvard law school has a similarly milicious and libelous
webpage now.

The movement is growing. One would think that HLS would know better
than to do what they have done.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:17 PDT 1996
Article: 62540 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Master of Liars? GIWER?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:47:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 4:47:42 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 17:22:10 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>Another lie from the master of liars.

>PUH-LEESE, Mr. McFee. If he was any GOOD at it, he wouldn’t be
>so readily caught.

>Get used to it – he’s a rank amateur, and, as far as I can determine,
>a troller whose only interest is in causing fights. While he can sound
>superficially plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges
>(while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>https://nizkor.org/encouragements/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar-wager.html

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/search.html
>———————–| http://search.nizkor.org/search.html
> |————————————–
>Bored? Try https://nizkor.org/giwerundean-lesson.cgi

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:18 PDT 1996
Article: 62541 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 07:59:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 12:59:42 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:14:18 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> My website carries a guest editorial by Davy Crokett.
>>
>> To wit …
>>
>>
>>
>
>[the rest of this huge nonsense snipped]
>
>Mr. Giwer:
>
>Once again (for at least the fourth or fifth time), LEARN TO USE HTLM MARK-DOWN.
>
>It’s STUPID to include html coding in Usenet.
>
>But you knew that.

To dumb it down for the simple minded, save it to a file then then
open the file in your browser.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:19 PDT 1996
Article: 62547 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:51:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 4 Sep 1996 16:29:35 GMT, Brian Harmon wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 07:56:26 -0700, Brian Harmon
>> wrote:
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 2 Sep 1996 04:03:45 GMT, Brian Harmon wrote:
>> >
>> >> >My point, Matt, is that ‘every abandoned building’ in the US
>> >> > differs from the gas chambers in auschwitz by many criteria,
>> >> > including cyanide traces.
>> >>
>> >> Every abandoned building in the US contains traced of some popular
>> >> insecticide or other. Cyanide was the insecticide of both choice and
>> >> necessity on Germany during WW II.
>> >_Every_ abadnoned building, matt? Since when do you know jack about
>> >insecticides?

>> Yes. Parts per billion are detectable today. If they are abandoned
>> they are old and they have DDT which is long lived when completely
>> exposed to the elements and is still around in detectable quantities.
>> Or have you not been paying attention.

>Matt, since when does DDT contain cyanide?

Read the fucking posts before you respond. He says insectide. I said
insecticide.

>DDT is 1,1,1-trichloro-2,2-bis(p-chlorophenyl)ethane. Can you tell
> me where cyanide comes from? There isn’t a single CN group in there.

The subject in insecticides in general, not particular ones.

>DDT is long lived, however. you got one thing right.

I always do.

>> Or did you not know that through the 40s through 60s DDT was sold as
>> household sprays?
>> Are you deaf or just dumb?

>Oh fuck off, you insignifcant worm. All you’ve done is assert
> that ‘every abandoned building’ in the US will have cyanide
> traces in them. Now you’re claiming that they’ll have DDT
> traces, which has zilch to do with cyanide.

I have asserted no such thing. I said insecticide. You are
deliberately lying or very, very stupid and/or illiterate.

>> >> In fact even if they were “gas chambers” then, given their genesis, it
>> >> would be highly surprising to find no cyanide traces. What is found,
>> >> in relationship to other samples is not out of the ordinary anymore
>> >> than finding traces of RAID or Max bug spray.

>> >Is there cyanide in Raid, Matt? Care to provide us with the active
>> > ingredients of that bug spray?

>> Your ignorance of the subject is noted. Please learn something before
>> you participate again.

>How ironic. I’ll bet you $25 dollars, between you and me, that
> there isn’t a drop of cyanide in RAID bug spray. Care to take me
> up on it?

To put the bet in their proper terms, I will bet yyou $25 that RAID is
an insecticide.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:20 PDT 1996
Article: 62550 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Words of Wisdom on Grynspan…
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:43:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:46:42 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> I regret that I can not lie to support a Mossad murderer. Now if cash
>> were to come my way … you have my address
>>

>No – just to support your delusions.

>As for cash — you are now stating that you want money to stop your
>statements.

>Extortion is a crime.

But that is not what I said and you know it.

To clarify, if the Mossad or the CIA would like to cover up the leak
you made, they know where to find me.

But that is not extortion.

That is the way intelligence organizations do business.

Of course, I would advertise the entire transaction.

It would be the test of whether or not you were bullshitting me as I
believe you were on the phone.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:20 PDT 1996
Article: 62551 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!hustle.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.clark.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:39:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 4 Sep 1996 07:26 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>>>On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, tom moran wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If one of your students should turn in a paper with revisionistic
>>>>> views, how would you grade him?
>>>
>>> Whenever I teach an introductory class (I’ve taught both Introduction
>>> to Business and Introduction to MIS) I assign the students to write a
>>> letter to the editor of the local newspaper. While I generally
>>> encourage them to write on a topic loosely related to the syllabus of
>>> the course, I let them know that what is important is that they write
>>> about something they care about.
>>>
>>> I have had a couple of students over the years choose to write their
>>> letters about abortion. Some of the students have taken a position on
>>> abortion directly counter to my own.
>>>
>>> I have graded them on the logic and structure of their argument. I
>>> have found that I am able to do this even if I don’t agree with their
>>> premises. I don’t see why any good instructor would have a problem
>>> with this.
>>>
>>> To relate this with denier writing in alt.revisionism: there is a wide
>>> disparity in quality among denier writers. Milt Kleim, for example,
>>> can string together a decent argument. Greg Raven is dishonest, but
>>> his logic structure is usually valid. Ross Vicksell was an excellent
>>> writer and debater. Other deniers range from moderately literate to
>>> barely able to string together multiple thoughts. I can judge all this
>>> knowing full well the content of denier posts is garbage.
>>>
>> Where did you say you ‘teach’?

> In my first sentence up top.

I see a what but not a where.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:21 PDT 1996
Article: 62553 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 07:49:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 5 Sep 1996 02:41:49 GMT, unique cats wrote:

>>Oooo… good point. What about the CIA’s budget… that is still secret?
>>When I think of wasted and/or abused tax dollars, the CIA is first on my
>>list.
>>
>>–
>>[email protected]
>>”It’s not so much the apocolypse as it is the humidity.”
>> -Joel Hodgson
>,,,
>Remember the incident where the CIA built a $2 billion dollar submarine
>in order to retrieve a sunken Russian sub to get its crytographic gear,
>but the Russian sub broke in half when they attempted to lift it, and the
>whole thing was a waste?

>Anyone who gets a whiff of the kinds of things that go on within “black”
>(classified) programs quickly realizes that the main reason for all that
>security is to hide the wasteful spending from public scrutiny.

About the only good like in ID4 was “Do you really think they pay a
thousand dollars for toilet seats?”

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:22 PDT 1996
Article: 62559 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:24:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:53:42 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Not a one, holohugger. You know that.
>>
>So? When did you say you wanted the evidence delivered?

I expect it to be posted publically, self professed murderer.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62562 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:25:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 4 Sep 1996 06:44 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>># When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
>>># Demjanjuk for perjury?
>>
>>>Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?
>>
>> He was not in the camp described. Therefore they lied. What is so
>>hard about that?

> It’s hard becuase it is inconsistent with other assertions you have
> posted. Didn’t you just a day or so ago post that eyewitness testimony
> given fifty years after the fact is necessarily polluted? Didn’t you
> yourself say that even if these people THINK they are telling the
> truth, it is impossible to separate the truth from what they have been
> told during the intervening 50 years?

Excuse me. I was unaware you believe everyone related to the
prosecution in this case should be brought up on charges of malicious
prosecution and abuse of process.

OK, fine with me.

But the bottom line is who is going to spend years in jail for this
known travesty of justice in any civilized country?

> Did you notice that even though people here jump on most everything you
> say, no one jumped on that particular point? So why do you contradict
> it now?

I was waiting for someone like you to admit the Israeli government was
involved in malicious prosecution of Demjanjuk. I chose the form of
the first post in expectation of someone, now you, to hold that the
Government of Israel is morally culpable of persecuting an innocent
man.

It is appreciated that you have pointed out there is no justice in
Israel.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62563 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Thinks that U.S. Courts are part of the Inquisition
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:01:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:02:19 AM CDT 1996
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On 5 Sep 1996 00:55:57 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 2 Sep 1996 12:04:08 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >Without getting too deeply in this, I would like to read any of Larson’s
>autopsies
>> >for people allegedly found gassed at Dachau.
>
>> They existed back during the trials “by reference” but were never
>> produced and can not be found. He was also permitted to testify to
>> matters upon which he had no personal knowledge when it came to
>> describing the gas chambers that existed for the trials but ceased to
>> exist later.

> Where have you looked?

Right here. It was posted. We have been over this. Look it up.

> Larson’s complete report was used at trial. It is generally available from
>several public sources as it was later made a part of the Congressional Record.
>He described that which he saw. It included operating gas chambers and
>victims of those gas cahmbers.

Let us examine the prima facia value of your claim.

You claim that he described an operating gas chamber. You therefore
claim that the US Army was permitting a gas chamber to continue
operating for him to observe.

Are you really that stupid?

>> In other words it was a typical war crimes trial that used the legal
>> tradition of the Inquisition — but then I denigrate the inquisition.

> Odd. I thought the Federal Rules of Evidence (Rule 703 is posted
>elsewhere) were written for U.S. courts.

> You have a very odd view as to how trials are conducted.

But I do know how they were conducted. And I also know that someone
like you who claims to be an attorney supports courts like this.

—–

And if defense witnesses should get carried away and presume to
claim that they know nothing of gas chambers, and perhaps even
dare to dispute their existence, then the least that will happen
to them is that they are declared unreliable. Even the Judge
himself may become abusive.260 But how the Judges change their
tune in those exceptional cases where a former SS-man
‘confesses’:

“A valuable witness, one of the few who confirm at least some
of what everyone knows anyhow.”261

Indeed, the author has hit the nail on the head! Since
everything is “judicially noticed” and considered self-evident
anyhow, it would be much easier to dispense with all the
laborious proceedings and simply hand down the verdict as soon
as the witnesses for the prosecution have had their say.

The courts frequently conclude from these circumstances that
witnesses for the defense cannot contribute anything of value to
an investigation anyhow, and thus disregard their testimony or
even dispense with summoning them in the first place.262

260 Cf. B. Naumann, op. cit. (Note ), p. 265; I. Mller-Mnch,
op. cit. (Note ), p. 107: “What all do you think you can make
this Court believe? I will dispense with any further testimony
of yours.”, also pp. 116, 172.

261 H. Lichtenstein, op. cit. (Note ), p. 56; op. cit. (Note ),
pp. 72f.: “[…] the Chief of the District Court said, well, we
get this sort of witness too sometimes. ‘Thank God!’, one might
add.”

—–

The point is that you support the idea that the court can take
judicial note of the guilt of the defendents pleading not guilty and
conduct the proceedings accordingly.

But then, you are an attorney. You believe this to be a fair trial.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:24 PDT 1996
Article: 62565 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer’s latest tactic.
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:49:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 5 Sep 1996 02:16:42 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>> One man’s word against another coupled with your admission of
>>murdering two Americans on this conference should do it.

>Ahhh, yes! The “admission on this conference” which you can’t find.

>The judge would love that!

It is not worth the time now. What is your point?

>> Going to sue me? Please do.

>Why? You’re effectively judgement-proof and you’ve already been proven a
>liar.

I didn’t think so.

>The fact that you’d lose is obvious.

Only to Pennsylvania lawyers.

>> I have been awaiting the opportunity to post the blow by blow of DOD;s
>>Ken McVay pressing charges and the FBI visit.

>You wouldn’t reach the second sentence, Matt. One “irrelevant” objection
>and the judge would tell you to cut the crap.

But excuse me. McVay is not posting with his DOD email address or
have you not noticed? He made a fool of you and your mailbombing.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:25 PDT 1996
Article: 62566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:57:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:11:14 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 18:16:42 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
>> >> for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
>> >> what I can to get them the guns.
>>
>> >That reminds me, Oh Gonadless One, I’m still waiting for you to gather up the
>> >miniscule amount of courage you have to answer the following questions:
>>
>> >1. Why did you cut out part of one of my posts and then claim you didn’t
>> > do it despite the fact anyone with two neurons saw that you did?
>>
>> >2. What hominid averaged seven feet in height?
>>
>> >3. How many bones compose the skull and pelvis?
>>
>> >4. How many bones does _Gray’s Anatomy_ (which *you* mentioned) say
>> > there are in the skull?
>>
>> >(The 1995 reprint of the First Edition, page 4 and page 19 for starters)
>>
>> I will see your claims and raise you
>>
>> How many items of physical evidence are there of the holocaust.
>>
>> You provide one and I will deal with the rest.

>In Poland, near the town known as Auschwitz while it was under German occupation,
>there exists a camp known as Auschwitz-Birkenau. The existance of this camp
>matches documentary and eyewitness evidence that indicates it was there.

>The existance of this camp provides one piece of physical evidence that at least
>part of the story of the Holocaust is true.

>Your turn, Giwer. And I’m not going to let you stray off topic.

We are agreed there was a camp. So what? There were camps in the US
in WW II for Japanese-American citizens. And there are cetainly
traces of insectides in them.

No holocaust there.

Next point.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:26 PDT 1996
Article: 62568 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Grynspan says Moran’s parents “incestuous pair of slugs”.
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:15:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 5 Sep 1996 00:19:44 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> At the trials witnesses for the defense were threatened, insulted,
>> charged and imprisoned until they changed their testimony. And the
>> judges and the prosecution did that to subborn the perjury that is the
>> only basis for the holocaust.

> This is a lie.

Sorry but I can not change the truth even if I wanted to change it.

And also it is exactly the kind of trial you have said you support.

It is amazing what kind of lawyers are being turned out these days.

>> Every bit of the holocaust rests upon perjury. Suspicions are one
>> thing. To have it all so clearly laid out is something else entirely.

> You have yet to do so. You tell lies. You cannot point to a single
>point in transcript where cross-examination was denied. You cannot point to a
>single point in the transcript where the defense was refused the right to present
>witnesses. You cannot point to a single point where a judge threatened a
>witness.

> You are making it up again.

> But everybody knows that by now.

How much more do I need to post on the subject?

You support the court taking judicial note of guilt of defendents who
plead not guilty.

what more can I say about you?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:19:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:19:53 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:54:05 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) writes:

># Is there corresponding evidence that Demjanjuk was guilty?

>He was trained in Travniki and stationed in Sobibor. His photo
>was picked by a few survivors and an SS-man as that of “Ivan”.

>Either he’s indeed Ivan, or he sure looks like him.

Willful perjurors identified him. Swore to it under oath showing you
what holohuggers think about oaths.

Now when are they going to be prosecuted for perjury?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62572 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:10:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:10:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 10:05:52 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Of course he is lying. Remember, he was in the intelligence business.

>I was? Have you actually seen any credentials? Did I ever present any?

>Post the URL.

>> Lying is a job skill, not to mention the wetwork, i.e. murder.

>Post the URL.

Your claim of doing wet work was in a phone conversation as you
remember.

You only mentioned killing two people in a.r but said that I did not
know the circumstances of it.

>> But then his techniques here are the until oxymoron, in the
>> intelligence business with his intelligence?

>What on Earth is an “until oxymoron?!?”

>As for being in the Mossad, we’ve already been there, Matt.

>Unless you count my “honourary” membership as a child – NOPE!

Get over it. You bragged to me about doing wet work for that Jewish
intelligence organization. I thought you were bullshitting then and I
think you are still bullshitting.

But intelligence work does include the job skill of lying in a
convincing manner.

You learned well.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62573 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Grynspan says Moran’s parents “incestuous pair of slugs”.
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:16:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:16:37 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 21:23:29 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Every bit of the holocaust rests upon perjury. Suspicions are one
>> thing. To have it all so clearly laid out is something else entirely.

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>The very absense of physical evidence is proof that it is true.

>
>Which is it, Mr. Giwer?

Exactly what you are dumb enough to swallow, like semen.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62574 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:03:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:04:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:98897 alt.revisionism:62574 soc.culture.europe:47555 soc.culture.german:85047

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:07:59 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >Do you really think a violent revolution is called for because of minor laws
>> >limiting certain types of public expression?
>>
>> Who is foolish enough to prioritize rights? You? Again, prudence
>> dictates attempting a nonviolent means first. But also to repeat, all
>> rights are equal, the deprivation of any one of them is a killing
>> offense.

>Indeed. What do you make of the right of governments to have nuclear weapons
>while individual citizens are not allowed to?

Legitimate governments have no rights. They have powers which are
delegated to them by the governed and nothing more. But if you would
like to try to pursue this game, you can go to Cornell and find the
law against individual possession of nulcear weapons. You will not be
the first to fail.

>If all rights are absolutely equal, by what right do you have to deprive
>others of their right to live?

And that can not be done without due process as are all rights subject
to due process. But you know that.

You have denied them one of their rights,
>therefore I assume you will happily stand still while their relatives gun
>you down.

That is a risk those relatives will be taking in the attempt.

That is why the people have delegated police powers to the government.

>(All those, unlike Matt, who can see a circular argument starting can
>carry on by themselves.)

I have dealt with so many fools like you before on this subject that
it is nearly impossible for me to get it wrong.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62575 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Show your support – sign on here
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:44:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:45:09 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 07:30 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You mean McVay ain’t the web master of Nizkor? Okay then I see he
>>>>is listed as “Director”. What’s the difference between a ‘webmaster’
>>>>of a website and a “director”?
>>>
>>> Ken McVay is just the computer tech, but he has a Spielberg complex, so
>>> we let him call himself “the Director.”
>>
>> “We”? Who is “we”?

> The Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG for short). I know we exist, I
> even have the t-shirt to prove it!

> No, seriously, “we” would be all of the people loosely involved with
> Nizkor (though I don’t know why I am answering you seriously now given
> my nothing else I have said in this thread is anything more than a
> troll.)

If those co-conspirators would identify themselves rather than begging
off from any claim of active participation then they can be named in
the lawsuit against Nizkor.

They vanish the instant the lawsuit is mentioned.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:05:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 8:05:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 15:39:39 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer writes…

>> Any rational group would seek out those who
>> have killed for hire and kill them. Better
>> the world is without them. And that does not
>> matter what side they are one at the moment.

>First, let me make it clear (since Matt will almost certainly try
>to misrepresent my post) that I do not approve of political murder.

>That said, could Matt please explain why the Mossad is bad for
>killing terrorists, but “any rational group” would be good for
>seeking out Mossad agents and killing them? Am I missing something
>here?

Excuse me but if you do not accept murder being murder I have no idea
where to start with you.

And I have not restricted my statement to the Mossad. CiA, KGB, they
are all murderers. They are certainly members of crimainal
organizations as any murder, any wet work, makes the entire
organization a criminal organization under the rules of the war crimes
trials. Therefore, they are all murderers.

If the governments will not prosecute them then the power to execute
devolves upon the citizens.

When a government declines to exercise its delegated powers then the
delgation is null and void and it devolves back to the people to
exercise tbose powers.

I was unaware there was anyone dumb enough to need a lecture on this
subject. What is yoru problem?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:24:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 2:24:37 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 15:44:08 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Excuse me. I did not realize you were a brain dead, religious true
>: believer. Go thy way, thy faith has saved thee.
>:
>: Come back when you can think for yourself.

>You heard it here first, folks. Anybody who believes that priests
>and rabbis exist is a “braindead, religious true believer”. All
>those guys you see walking around in white collars? Mass hallucinations,
>folks, induced by ZOG’s orbitting mind control lasers.

>Matt, you have really, truly, cracked. Seek help.

Soothsayers and witch doctors at best, all fo them.

Only holohuggers are dumb enough to miss the point.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:39:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:40:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:09:59 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:12:15 GMT, [email protected] (Angus M.
>> McLellan) wrote:
>>
>[snip]
>>
>> It is uneductated fools like you that bother me. Not regarding the
>> holocaust but the economic future of America.

>[snip]

>Uh–notice anything about Mr. McLellan’s e-mail address? No? Hint:
>look at the last two letters.

Good point. The Brit system has down the crapper also.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62586 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:44:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 1:44:59 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 16:10:04 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>>> Where did you say you ‘teach’?
>>
>> In my first sentence up top.

> “MIS”?

If he guessed the right term, he is trying to substiute Management
Information Systems and get away with what instead of where.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:14:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:14:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 5 Sep 1996 05:00:26 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>> > >
>> >Mike Curtis writes:
>>
>> Herr Schwarzesel, you are neither humble nor do you have “opinions.” What
>> you _do_ have is the proclivity for Nazi hero worship (e.g. Streicher) and
>> apologia (i.e. ranting against Streicher’s conviction for crimes against
>> humanity.)
>>
>What you have is no evidence.
>> >
> I found nothing pornographic in any of the quotes,

> But then you also seem to think _Screw_ is the “standard” for pornagraphy…

>It’s a good place to start..
>>
>> > nor could I find any justification as to why Streicher was killed. I posted
>> > my reasons why.
>>
>> Then, Herr Schwarzesel, you are blind as well as stupid. The reasons for
>> Streicher’s conviction for crimes against humanity was laid out in black
>> and white in the IMT’s judgement against Streicher. Any poerson with a
>> modicum of intelligence and integrity can easily understand this. But, of
>> course, you are neither intelligent, nor possess any integrity….
>>
>Now, Mark, let’s review the “evidence” you have posted as a reply to my
>request:

>1. I am a “Nazi”.

This is a libel that deserves to be answered in blood.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:29:34 PDT 1996
Article: 62588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 13:08:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Sep 04 8:08:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:85280 alt.revisionism:62588

On 4 Sep 1996 03:35:40 GMT, [email protected] (Bob Beck) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: The window of opportunity for collecting eyewitness accounts in fact
>: closed in 1946 at the latest. At this late date, all testimony is
>: hopelessly corrupted.

>: And the corrupted testimony will be the death of the Shoah as you
>: think you know it. Because of the way memory works the testimony has
>: to be corrupted. It has to be outrageously false.

>Fascinating. Fifty-year-old testimony is _a priori_ unreliable, yet this
>very testimony will disprove the reality of the Holocaust.

>The logic of this escapes me. Perhaps that’s because there isn’t any.

Elisabeth Loftus, a Jewish-American specialist on eyewitness
testimony, takes the opposite position, even – in fact,
particularly – in the context of Holocaust witnesses: of all the
categories of witnesses, she says, these are the most
unbelievable, due to the world-wide media exploitation and the
emotionally highly charged mood characterizing the topic of the
Holocaust.212 Admittedly, she has held this view only since
attending the Demjanjuk Trial in Jerusalem, where the scales fell
>from her eyes. In the end, this trial produced a verdict of not
guilty, since the unreliable nature of all the witnesses for the
prosecution had become too apparent – and this included witnesses
who had given similar testimony two decades earlier in two
Treblinka trials in Germany, where they had been deemed credible
and had helped to decide the outcomes of these trials.

cf. H. Lichtenstein, Im Namen des Volkes?, Cologne: Bund, 1984,
pp. (Note ), pp. 196ff.

Good enough or would you like more?

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 10:20:44 PDT 1996
Article: 62599 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:13:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:13:41 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:09:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (aka jbellings), writes:

># Mr. Keren-I don’t know why, but I expected more from you.
># Are you suggesting, as apparently you are-that Streicher
># deserved death simply because of what he wrote as quoted
># above, or similar statements?

>Not an easy question. Would I have sentenced Streicher to
>the rope, had I been the judge? It’s very possible that I
>would not have.

>But, regardless of that, he was indeed one revolting
>swine; and I still bet that the last sound he made, while
>dangling, was a little pig squeal.

>Are you a happier person now, or did I disappoint you
>once again?

It reads like you think there is something special about pigs.

Too Jewish.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 10:20:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62614 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:19:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:19:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 14:38:49 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Yes. It is as old as the old testiment and as new as “The Godfather”
>: that women and children are to be killed in such cultures. Are you
>: really imposing 1990s US culture on the rest of the world? Are you
>: really that stupid?

>So now you’re contending that European culture in the 1940s condoned
>the mass slaughter of women and children? What an odd idea, Matt.

Actually I was talking about Israel today.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 10:20:46 PDT 1996
Article: 62618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT – sign on here
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:57:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 6:57:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Sep 1996 05:31:12 GMT, [email protected] (Bob Beck) wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>[blah blah blah]

>: DON’T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT
>: for Ken McVay, Director of the anti-hate Website, Nizkor, The
>: Holocaust Educational Resource, endorsed by the U.S. Holocaust Museum,
>: The Simon Wiesenthal Center and many other Institutions and Websites.
>: ——————————————————————–

>Sure, sign me up. I mean, I’ve never met Ken McVay, but I like his
>website. (He’s obviously a good troll^H^H^H^H^H fisherman too, but living
>in Nanaimo, he should be!)

It is great to read so many people support criminal copyright
violation and conspiract to same.

Even Edeiken knows that the legislative history of “educational
purposes” does not support Nizkor but he publically posts a legal
opinion that such copyright violation is within the law.

It is just one more thing to report the the Penn SC.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 12:14:16 PDT 1996
Article: 62650 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:30:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 03 11:30:53 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 3 Sep 1996 01:49:01 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:
>> Without getting too deeply in this, I would like to read any of Larson’s autopsies
>> for people allegedly found gassed at Dachau.

> Then look up his report and read it.

It has been posted here. It is no such thing. It is testimony that
would only be acceptable at an inquisition, as any attorney knows.

>> As to the well fed guards, many of
>> the prisoners looked well-fed also. The majority of deaths in these camps was
>due
>> to disease. Typhus runs rampant very quickly and the fatality rate can be very
>high.

> The incubation period for typhus is approximately 14 days. It “runs
>rampant” only when relatively simple public health measures are not taken. The
>fatality rate for typhus is about 10% in most populations. It is easily controlled.

Ah, yes, controlled with food, water, and medicine which were not
available moving the death rate from 10% under ideal conditions to
what?

You continue to makes your lies for the holocaust public no matter how
many times they are exposed.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 18:22:41 PDT 1996
Article: 62747 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 00:31:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 5 Sep 1996 17:31:37 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: That is because, without cause, I was libelled in a manner that is
>: worthy of being answered in blood.
>:
>: And you must remember that blood libels justify any response.

>Let’s be perfectly clear on this, Matt. No shilly-shallying, okay?

>Are you saying that you would be justified in killing anyone who
>called you an antisemite?

>Are you threatening to do so?

I am calling it a blood libel. What does that mean to you?

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 20:04:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62757 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A minor question
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:26:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:06:22, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>Subject: A minor question
>>Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 00:05:37 GMT

>> Why is that didn’t discover anything peculiar about Auschwitz until
>>after the end of the war?
>>

>Noun, Giwer-bot, we need a noun.

Sorry, that is not an answer. There was nothing unusual discovered
about Auschwitz from the time of liberation until after the war.

But you know that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 20:04:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 00:35:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 7:36:02 PM CDT 1996
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On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:22:39 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Your URL? Your post? Your anything to say that some
># places at A-B had no problems with vermin?

>There are rooms in the complex that do not have cyanide traces.

>This is elaborated upon in the report of the Polish chemists,
>often posted here. I don’t recall the URL right now. If you’ll
>mail Jamie McCarthy, I’m sure he’ll be happy to help you.

As has been discussed in depth here, the polish report is worthless as
it has only one data point.

>Moreover, if the two underground cellars were indeed “morgues”,
>and both would have been “deloused” with Zyklon (as you claim),
>then both would have had gas-tight doors. But only one of
>them did. Why? Because it was the gas chamber.

How do you know they did not? How do you know any of them had such
doors? You mean because a door was found on a trash heap a hundred
yard away it reallly belonged in the morgue? You mean that door from
the demolished where it can not be determined whether or not it even
fits?

You mean that door?

># BTW: You are still lying about your degree.

>Why do you say that? Why do you have to behave like a
>silly child?

>Matty, you want to contact Brown University, and tell
>them that I “lied about my degree”, and that they should
>demand that I pay them back the salary they gave me as
>a Ph.D research associate, for three years?

>Can you PLEASE try to behave like an adult?

Maybe you would like to give me the year as I requested.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 22:20:46 PDT 1996
Article: 62778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another question
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:25:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
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On 4 Sep 1996 15:01:47 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>: wrote:
>: >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>:
>: ># When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
>: ># Demjanjuk for perjury?
>:
>: >Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?
>:
>: He was not in the camp described. Therefore they lied. What is so
>: hard about that?

>You have proof they lied, Matt? The last I heard, the Israeli
>Supreme Court did not rule that Demjanjuk was not Ivan–they
>ruled that there was a reasonable doubt.

>Do you understand the difference, Matt?

Yes but you do not.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 23:11:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 01:29:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 20:02:51 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:11:14 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 03 Sep 1996 18:16:42 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> A minor problem is the laws against speech and the press are a cause
>> >> >> for revolution. Should Germans ever have the balls for it, I will do
>> >> >> what I can to get them the guns.
>> >>
>> >> >That reminds me, Oh Gonadless One, I’m still waiting for you to gather up the
>> >> >miniscule amount of courage you have to answer the following questions:
>> >>
>> >> >1. Why did you cut out part of one of my posts and then claim you didn’t
>> >> > do it despite the fact anyone with two neurons saw that you did?
>> >>
>> >> >2. What hominid averaged seven feet in height?
>> >>
>> >> >3. How many bones compose the skull and pelvis?
>> >>
>> >> >4. How many bones does _Gray’s Anatomy_ (which *you* mentioned) say
>> >> > there are in the skull?
>> >>
>> >> >(The 1995 reprint of the First Edition, page 4 and page 19 for starters)
>> >>
>> >> I will see your claims and raise you
>> >>
>> >> How many items of physical evidence are there of the holocaust.
>> >>
>> >> You provide one and I will deal with the rest.
>>
>> >In Poland, near the town known as Auschwitz while it was under German occupation,
>> >there exists a camp known as Auschwitz-Birkenau. The existance of this camp
>> >matches documentary and eyewitness evidence that indicates it was there.
>>
>> >The existance of this camp provides one piece of physical evidence that at least
>> >part of the story of the Holocaust is true.
>>
>> >Your turn, Giwer. And I’m not going to let you stray off topic.
>>
>> We are agreed there was a camp. So what? There were camps in the US
>> in WW II for Japanese-American citizens. And there are cetainly
>> traces of insectides in them.
>>
>> No holocaust there.
>>
>> Next point.

>Sorry, you asked for one piece of physical evidence. You never said it had to
>prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the Holocaust occurred. Now, as per our
>agreement:

In other words you have no physical evidence of any holocaust. At
best you have evidence of internment.

It is good to see you admit that.

From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 23:11:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.goodnet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 14:41:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-52.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:07:49 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Elie Wiesel was 14 when he started lying

>You, Matty, started lying the minute you could talk,
>and you didn’t stop since.

Whether that is is true or not Elie Wiesel is still a liar.

I can no change that.

You can not change that.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:42 PDT 1996
Article: 62796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: What the H*ll’s left in Iraq to bomb, craters?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:11:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
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On 4 Sep 1996 15:31:42 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, MCX
> wrote:

>> Duncan R. MacMillan wrote:
>> >
>> > How much is Saddam Hussein being paid to conduct his bomb-dropping
>> > escapades at such a convenient time?
>> >
>> > —
>> > D. MacMillan
>> > “Usenet Enquirer”.
>>
>>
>> It is amazing how during election years Saddam decides to raise hell.
>> You would think that some of the American sheeple would one day think
>> for themselves. Alas that day will not come until it is too late.
>>
>>
>> mcx

>I am finding it amusing to watch Dole try to pin this on Clinton — and
>all the old Gulf War hands explaining how it isn’t their fault that
>Sadam Hussein’s main army was pretty much unscathed by their successful
>war. So Clinton is ‘sending a message’ that Sadam would be safe to attack.
>[But Bush, whose rep told Sadam that we would not retaliate if he took
>Kuwait, was somehow ‘strong’ and ‘forceful’ and didn’t ‘send a signal’?]

Of course that is not what happened. The statement was to the effect
that the US would not interfere in the Kuwait/Iraq border dispute that
regarded an oil field on their mutual border. It is only Democrats
who are too ignorant of events in the Middle East to know the context
of the statement.

Or perhaps they believe a border dispute is the same as conquest.

>If the Gulf War had been ended more decisively and if we had not
>previously allowed Kurds to be slaughtered, maybe this wouldn’t be
>happening now.

What is happening now but a few Kurds being kicked around?

>It was shameful for Dole to publicly attack Clinton and urge particular
>courses of action during the period when Clinton was formulating a response.

When else can it be influenced? After it is over?

>Where is all the criticism by the right of this patently unpatriotic
>action — an example of willingness to put the country at a disadvantage for
>partisan political gain.

In fact it is unclear just what authority the US had for that action.
Not that it really needs any but it has no obvious relationship to any
ultimatum the US or the UN ever gave Iraq.

Just what is the objection to Iraq installing one Kurd faction over
another? Where is that prohibited?

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:43 PDT 1996
Article: 62801 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: WP Martyrs (was: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed…?)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 01:26:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 02:57:20 -0700, [email protected] (Rob Kowalewski)
wrote:

>In article , [email protected]
>(Hawkman Harold) wrote:

>> In article , [email protected] (Rob
>> Kowalewski) wrote:
>>
>> > Awhile ago, I posted my thoughts regarding the fact that our White Power
>> > friends seem to pick quite an interesting array of folks they hold up as
>> > “heros” and “matryrs”. In summary, I pointed out that :
>> >
>> > -David Koresh is now a pile of child-molesting ashes;
>>
>> Never proven he was a child molester. It was investigated. It was dropped,
>> because there was no evidence. It was made up by a parent of a child who
>> wanted custody. It was a lie.

>You are significantly misguided. Congressional hearings investigating the
>incident, (Republican dominated, I might add), featured the testimony of
>some of his pre-teen victims. He called them his “child brides”.
>
>> > -Bob Mathews is now a pile of murderous, thieving ashes;
>>
>> > -Randy Weaver is now a self-made widower.
>>
>> Wrong. The little gook who shot her through the door with the child in her
>> arms is a federal murderer who has since been promoted by the bloody FBI,
>> a sorry bunch of killers, if there ever was….

>Weaver resisted arrest and avoided prosecution. He hid behind his family
>when he knew the federal heat was on. He was extremely irresponsible in
>teaching his young’uns about firearms (such as neglecting to tell them
>”Don’t point guns at armed law enforcement officers”). If he wanted to
>stand and fight, who cares? But get the wife and minor kids out first, fer
>pete’s sake. He created the situation that played itself out most
>tragically.

Lets see, the marshalls show up and, without identifying themselves,
start the shooting first the dog and then the son in the back killing
him and wounding a family friend who was with him, thinking they were
chasing down a deer.

The hostage rescue team then shows up covertly and before announcing
their presense and demanding surrender opens fire killing his wife and
wounding him.

And all of that started because of a BATF entrappment scheme and
falsly reporting that Weaver was a suspect in an armed bank robbery.

Those are the most important points you have either wrong or
neglected.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:44 PDT 1996
Article: 62809 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I have a question
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:27:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 1:27:33 AM PDT 1996
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The holohugger commonly present without evidence that questioning
holocaust promotes the hatred of Jews.

Does that not mean that it is only the complete acceptance of the
holocaust that causes Jews to be liked?

Why is it that holohuggers assume Jews are so terrible as a people
that only world class victim status can cause people not to despise
them?

It would be better if the holohuggers would start over and explain
their assumption first before someone starts running with the inverse
of their assumption, as above.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62817 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:37:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:12:58 GMT, [email protected] (CHRIST SODOMIZER)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) took a fat hit off a pipe and
>wrote:

>> We live in a victim world. Victims are like children who need to be
>>taken care of, who can not take care of themselves. Of course the
>>grown up victims are like spoiled children who throw an tantrum when
>>they are not catered to.

>Victims seem to me to be asking for relativism to be applied to their
>situation, in a universal sense. E.g. everyone must treat them
>differently than the norm, but a norm must be established — this
>contradiction allows much of this stuff (Christianity, Judaism) to
>flourish as political-emotive entities without any necessary ties to
>reality.

Given their “questioning the holocaust incites hatred” they must be
saying that the only thing preventing hatred of the Jews is unique
victim status.

Beyond that, there is no known relationship between any religion and
reality.

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62819 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 08:45:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
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On 4 Sep 1996 16:40:30 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>: [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>:
>: >> Where did you say you ‘teach’?
>: >
>: > In my first sentence up top.
>:
>: “MIS”?

>This thread just keeps getting funnier.

>Yes, Li’l Tommy– Danny teaches at MIS, which stands for “Miskatonic
>Institute of Surreality.” They’re summoning the Old Gods to help
>ZOG in it’s campaign to undermine the Noble Aryan Race.

>Wanna apply?

Miskatonic U. does fit in with a lot of holohugger stories. Maniacal
laughter heard over the aircraft engines indeed.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:46 PDT 1996
Article: 62822 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 09:34:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 04 Sep 1996 18:32:57 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[other giwer nonsense deleted.]

>> > Have you protested the fact that this regularly done?
>>
>> Yes you are a lying fake attorney.

>The liar is you, you beady eyed little twit. If you had an inkling of how
>to make use of your internet connection, you could verify this in less
>than 60 seconds.

How would you know? You have no ability to judge.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:47 PDT 1996
Article: 62831 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ye shall smell gas where there be no gas
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 10:09:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl7-01.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 05 5:10:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 04 Sep 96 17:25:30 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[…]
>>If someone disagrees with me, take it up with Simon. But then we all
>>know he lies a lot.

>>WW II American airman Paul Stralka shares details of his stay at
>>Buchenwald for the Duluth News Tribune by recalling “long lines of prisoners being led to
>>the gas chambers, which were usually disguised as showers.” Unfortunately, Buchenwald is
>>in Germany, and as we all know, “there were no extermination camps on German soil”
>>(Simon Wiesenthal, Books and Bookmen, April, 1975).

>> But then what does the subborner in chief know?

>Giwer is not only a liar (that he doesn’t protest, affirms that he he earns the title) but also
>an idiot beyond any mortal bounds. That there were no extermination camps in Germany
>does of course NOT mean that there were no gas chambers or no gassed people. As usual
>his conclusions are completely worthless. (I wonder were he has done his degree in science?)

How could you judge as you have zero familiarity with any form of
science? But you know that.

>Hey, Giwer, at what university DID you do your BS in science?

It has been posted many times. Look it up.
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:47 PDT 1996
Article: 62832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Sinking McVay – down, down, down
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 06:57:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 02 Sep 1996 12:51:36 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Tom Moran) wrote:

>> Moran had posted “What is “trolling”?
>>
>> “I see a lot of dubbing of ‘troller’ or ‘trolling’ out here. What
>> does that mean?

>A fair question, to which Ken McVay gave various clever, subtle, and
>educational responses — and some not-so-subtle responses.

Only McVay’s lover could describe it that way. It appears your really
do want to flaunt it. Trying to make Alec jealous?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62839 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: This is suppported by Edeiken
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:49:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
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FROM YOUR IMT:

DR SEIDL: When the witness was heard here I had no opportunity to
cross-examine him, and for that reason ….

PRESIDENT: Why did you have no opportunity to cross examine him?

DR SEIDL: Because I did not know beforehand that he would be called by
the
Prosecution as a witness and had no opportunity to speak to the
Defendant
Frank about the questions which might have been put to the witness.

[….]

DR SEIDL: May I perhaps add something to this point? The difficulty
of cross
examination is just this, that we do not learn of the intended calling
of a
witness by the Prosecution until the witness is led into the
courtroom, and
we do not know the subject of the evidence until the Prosecution start
to
examine the witness.

Just like in any regular trial.

Source: IMT, VIII, p. 521

==========

YFE suports this as a fair, open and impartial manner for the defense
to be treated.

He knows. He’s an attorney
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:49 PDT 1996
Article: 62845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 08:17:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
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On Thu, 05 Sep 96 08:48:36 EST, [email protected] (Scott Erb)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…

>> Who is foolish enough to prioritize rights? You?

>Each person probably has their own subjective view of how rights are
>prioritized. Certainly there is disagreement on what rights exist and who
>should have them. There is no scientific proof, so disagreement must exist,
>and political systems deal with that.

And guns deal with political systems. Rights are what people are
willing to kill to enforce.

>> Again, prudence
>>dictates attempting a nonviolent means first. But also to repeat, all
>>rights are equal, the deprivation of any one of them is a killing
>>offense.

>I can’t imagine all rights being equal. Could you support that statement
>with more than an assertion?

Your inability to imagine is your problem. The rights that are
protected from infringement by the government are in the Constitution.
There is no priortization. They were all established against the
power of a strong central government.

Giving up any of them permits the power of government to destroy
liberty. And of course that is the tendency of any government.

>> A government slowly killing freedoms is no better than this. It
>>merely puts off the inevitable. Should it happen sooner than later
>>there will be less bloodshed.

>I disagree — governments that have a working democracy operate on the basis
>of the will of the people. There is no need for bloodshed, people are free
>to vote out the old guys and vote in new ones. If they choose not to do
>this, who are you to say that since you don’t like the collective choice of
>the populus you want to enforce your notion of rights and government on the
>people of a country?

Not me personally. Me and the 5-10% of a population it takes to
conduct a revolution.

>> The British colonies in America put off revolution for 15 or so
>>years and there was moderate bloodshed. The USA put off the slavery issue
>>for 70+ years and there was major bloodshed.

>I think that the issues are a bit more complicated than that, but at base I
>agree that that America’s refusal to deal with the slavery issue made the
>bloodshed worse when it came.

Which mitigates towards facing issues rather than putting them off as
too hard.

>> As for every state needing a revolution, the real Thomas Jefferson
>>suggested a revolution every 20 years to keep a country healthy.

>Do you think he still believed that during his term in office? 😉
>He did act rather dictatorial you know. Or was that not the “real” Thomas
>Jefferson?

I do not know of any writing that retracted the position. Perhaps you
can provide a reference?

>> You may realize that our constitution was founded on the presumption
>>of patriotism over partisanship but that partisanship won within the
>>first few years. Those are the facts of li