Giwer Matt, 4-1996 – p4

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59358 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:09:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 137
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:55:47 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
>>
>> ># Mass shooting takes -more- soldiers than gassing?
>>
>> >Yes. One person, or two, each with two 1 Kg cans of Zyklon,
>> >can kill 2,000 people in 15 minutes or so.
>>
>> yes but you’re trying to say they were using this puny little rooms which
>> show up on maps as being used for an entirely different purpose.

>Um, what “puny little rooms? What “maps?” What “entirely different purpose?”

>Do please enlighten us as to the specifics. You DO have specifics, right,
>Her Wankermeister?

>> If they -were- going to gas them then there was no need to transport them
>> hundreds of miles.

>And how much did it cost per person to transport the Jews “hundreds of
>miles” to the extermintion camps?

More than the cost of a 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

How would this compare, for instance, in
>transporting- hundreds of miles -the neccessary supplies required to keep
>the Einsatzgruppen operating in the field? (How much did these supplies
>cost?)

The same as it did when they were rounding them up and shipping them.
Plus the added cost of staging them between trains. The difference
being that it cost to create and guard the staging areas rather than
shooting in place.

Especially when the victims payed their own train fair and the SS
>paid to supply the Einsatzgruppen?

The cost of finding them is only one bullet less than the cost of
shooting them. Thus operating costs are greater once there is more
than shooting in place.

But you know that.

>> A gas chamber could’ve been built nearby since any old barn can
>> serve as a gas chamber according to the Holocaust Tale.

>Don’t forget the krematorien and incineration pits, Herr Wankermeister.
>How much would many little kremas costs as compared to a few large ones
>like at Auschwitz? Ever hear about the concept of “economy of scale?”

And how did it compare to the 2 million that dug their own graves
before they were shot?

When they are all rounded up and shot or when they are all rounded up
and shipped the operation ends. The shipping still takes longer and
costs more. There is no way out of it.

>> If they -were- going to gas then there would have built gas chambers -for-
>> that purpose…

>But the Nazis did, Herr Wankermeister. Kremas IV and V, for example, were
>purpose built homicidal installations as comapred to Kremas II and III
>which were “merely” converted during construction into massive homicidal
>gassing installations.

If that is true why were the undressing rooms in IV and V used for
gassing identical to the undressing rooms in II and III but in II and
II the LKs were used instead of the undressing rooms? How does
indentical mean converted in one case and identical in another?

>> …not these goofy gas chambers that “doubled” as shower rooms

>And which homicidal gas chambers “doubled” as shower roomes, Herr
>Wankermeister? Why none, of course.

In one case the “doubled” as morgues and in another as undressing
rooms, the latter happening when the modifications to the morgues were
perfected. There is nothing like throwing away a lot of work.

>> And yet as “efficient” as these gas chambers purportedly were, look at how
>> millions of jewish “deathcamp survivors” there are.

>None, of course. There were no “millions of jewish ‘deathcamp survivors,’
>Her Wankermeister. In truth there were less than 350,000 extermination
>camp survivors for all six of the Nazi extermination camps. Almost all of
>whom were survivors of Auschwitz, which was also was a labor camp
>(Auschwitz I and III and their satillite camps) in addition to being an
>exterminatin camp (Auschwitz II-Birkenau), and Madjanek.

You still fail to count all of those who were evacuated as being among
the liberated but from a different camp. And putting together all the
claimed gassing deaths and all the einsatzgruppen deaths we suddenly
have about 8 million Jews and a half million miscellaneous. I guess
is was just a Jewish thing.

>> >Very cheap. Very simple. Saves a lot of ammunition, which
>> >is something you want to save during a war.
>>
>> Not when you figure in the cost of transportation, feeding prisoners (who
>> supposedly are just going to be gassed?) and camp upkeep and maintenance;
>> these camps had all sort of workshops and amenities also.

>And exactly what was the _cost_ of keeping prisoners at, for instance, the
>Auschwitz complex, Herr Wankermeister? Why, it didn’t _cost_ the Nazis one
>RM! The Nazis turned a _profit_ from their victims. A coinsiderable profit
>too, I might add. For the prisoners who _weren’t_ exterminated on arrival
>the average _profit_ per prisoner was 1,631 $M ($745). For the victims who
>_were_ exterminated on arrival the _profit_ it was a bit less: 200 RM
>($91) per victim

The cost of a 9mm bullet was on the order of a first class postage
stamp. The profit would have been much greater without the shipping
and handling. But you know that.

>Now, Herr Wankermeister, just how much _profit_ did the Nazis make
>supplying the _Einsatzgruppen_ , paying the troops, etc. during the mobile
>killimg operations? Do please be specific. You DO have specifics, right,
>Herr Wankermeister? .

You really have no concept of cost accounting do you.

>> …Bullets are cheap.

>And Zyklon B was even cheaper, Herr Wankermeister. As I ‘ve demonstrated
>to you before. (Still not paying attention, I see.)

But NOT cheaper than shipping and construction and gas chamber
operation costs. But you know that.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:05:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:10:45 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> [email protected] (william c anderson) wrote:
>>
> Herr Wankermeister ([email protected]) wrote:

>[snip]

>> >There were many other reasons–some of them given by the planners of
>> >the Holocaust themselves–for switching from the roving killing squads
>> >to Extermination centers. Among other things, huge massacres spread
>> >out all over the countryside are hard to keep secret. Then there’s the
>> >fact that the Nazis wanted to exploit the labor of some of the Jews
>> >before they killed them. Also, disposing of massive numbers of corpses
>> >is much easier in a central location. The list goes on.
>>
>> yes the list goes on of the amenities the nazis afforded the jews in the
>> camps, e.g., care packages, bakeries, etc. Holocausters are faced with
>> the completely contrary fact that literally -millions- of jews survived
>> the purported “deathcamps.”

>Herr Wankermeister, in your attempt to portray yourself as a dysfunctional
>human being (not an easy job for Giwer’s sister’s cat, btw) you have yet
>again mightily confused yourself. There were basically six externimation
>camps: Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, and Treblinka.

You forgot Wolzek. That makes seven in the same category.

>Deportations to the Auschwitz extermination camp totalled at least
>1,300,000 people. Of these 1,300,000 deportees only 200,000 survived to be
>liberated. That puts the death death toll for Auschwitz at about 1,100,000
>victims, 90% of whom were Jewish (cf. _Anatomy_, p. 61-72). When Auschwitz
>was liberated by the Russian on January 27, 1945 there were approximately
>7,000 sick and exhaustyed prisoners remaining (cf. _Auchwitz Chronicles_,
>p.805.)

And what was it I keep hearing about the marches and transportation
FROM Auschwitz? Obviously until there is a count of the number who
marched out of Auschwitz there is no way to claim 1.1 million dead as
it is obviously much less. Or there was not much in the way of
evacuations.

It is amazing how multiple contradictory horror stories can be true at
the same time.

Or are you going to redefine Russian liberation?

How are you going to get out of this one? Going to wait for someone
else to jump in and speak for you?

But in the mean time, do you ever critically read what you post?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59386 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McFee’s threat repeated so no one misses it
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:11:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
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To: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust
Revisionism)
Date: Thu Aug 22 00:05:58 1996
X-Mailer: NeoLogic News for OS/2

In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
(Matt
Giwer)Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:34:25 GMT writes:
:>
:>On 18 Aug 1996 03:57:42 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken)
wrote:
:>
:>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
:>
:>> [Giwer’s invasion of another’s privacy snipped]
:>
:>McVay, Ken (KM214)
:> 1B Systems Management Limited
:> 5-1601 Bowen Road
:> Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
:> CA
:>
:> (604) 758-2499
:>
:> [email protected]

Good. Since we are into this, I shall post Mr. Giwer’s father’s name,
address
and telephone number each time he repeats this post.

I am e-mailing this to Mr. Giwer, so he can be sure to read it.


Gord McFee
I’ll write no line before its time

Whois Ken McVay?

===

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===

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From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59390 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Po’ widdie Aryan chilluns
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:11:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:59390 alt.politics.white-power:40604

On 23 Aug 1996 06:53:33 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>Mike Curtis wants proof that the media continually furthers the Holocaust
>>Tale.

>>I haven’t the heart even to say “Shindler’s List” for starters.

>Let me see if I have it right… a movie about the Holocaust
>is produced, and “the Jews” (i.e. “the media”) force all of
>God’s Little Aryan Children to stand in line at the theatre
>and watch it?

>Wow, are dem Joos powerful!

>Then dem Joos force dem Widdle Aryan Chilluns to _rent_
>Schindler’s List, and _watch_ it again?

>Wow, are dem Joos powerful?

>By the way… how many radio and television stations are there
>in North America? How many of them are privately owned? How
>many of them are public companies? How many of the private
>companies are owned by Jewish investors? How many of the
>public companies are primarily held by Jewish investors?

>(What? You haven’t a clue? Well shake us widastick.)

>>what are you supposed to do with a guy like that?

>Work a little harder dealing with his question?

>Poor widdie Aryan chilluns…. being dominated by less than 1% of
>the world’s entire population… now wonder the little
>darlings feel inferior – if they swallow that bullshit, they
>_are_ inferior. That explains h*ber.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
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=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
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From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59398 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just in case anyone missed it
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:27:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Aug 1996 23:39:55 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> Whois Ken McVay?

> What Giwer continues to ignore is that rather more interesting invitation to
>explore abnormal pyschology, to wit:

> “Whois Matt Giwer?”

> `One example of his rather peculiar view of the world is his statement that
>”testimony is not evidence.”

> One source that disagrees with him is Black’s Law Dictionary which
>states:

> “TESTIFY: to bear winess; to give evidence as a witness; to make a
>solemn declaration, under oath or affirmation, in a judicial inquiry, for the purpose of
>etablishing or proving some fact.”

> For those unfamiliar with this standard reference work for the meaning of
>words in a legal context, in the period from January through May, 1996,
>Pennsylvania appeals courts cited Black’s Law Dictionary 19 times as an
>authoritative source for the definition of words. They did not cite Giwer once.

> –YFE

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

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Information
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Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
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From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:55 PDT 1996
Article: 59399 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 03:10:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:44:44 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> From now on, I pass over garbage that even fools like you should know
>> is garbage.
>>
>Each time that you play this game after losing an argument, the mirror
>gets incremented.

Mailbombing is considered net abuse. A bot anything like what you are
doing is considered net abuse.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:56 PDT 1996
Article: 59401 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:12:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Aug 1996 13:25:23 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>>>Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>>>Over 100Megs of data: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?

>Actually, this is outdated data. The correct figures are: 7986
>files, 336 megs. (August 21, 1996)

>(We apologize for our slow progress, and promise to provide
>an increasing number of primary source documents in the next
>year. Alas, we warn the rigii-impaired, many will not be in English.)

>Please use:

>Over 330Megs of data: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?

>…or, if you don’t want us to pick your file server for you,
>find the one that works best in your neighborhood, and stick
>with it:

>Over 330Megs of data: http://ftp1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
>Over 330Megs of data: http://ftp2.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
>Over 330Megs of data: http://ftp3.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
>Over 330Megs of data: http://ftp1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
>Over 330Megs of data: ftp://ftp1.de.nizkor.org/pub/nizkor/

>(We regret being unable to provide access to our super-secret
>CIA-DOD Crays at this time, as they are all busy trying to
>find out how the caramel gets inside those candy bars, and if
>you knew about them, well, we’d have to giwerthompsonize you.)

>This announcement will be repeated in Giwerundean, for the
>English-impaired.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:56 PDT 1996
Article: 59402 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 02:25:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 7:29:43 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 20:41:38 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) writes:

>> If Mr. Giwer is prepared to pay the full cost of voiceprint
>> analysis of the disputed tape and adequate control
>> samples, should scientific analysis demonstrate that the tape
>> is a genuine recording of Heinrich Himmler, the Nizkor Project
>> is prepared to negotiate and conclude a legally binding
>> agreement for the purpose of determining the authenticity of
>> the recording.
>
>> Mr. Giwer, upon agreement to participate, shall deposit the
>> full cost of the laboratory analysis, as specified by the
>> laboratory chosen to perform the test, with a recognized trust
>> accountant.
>
>> If the recording is determined to be genuine by reasonable
>> scientific standards, Mr. Giwer will agree to the immediate
>> release of the trust funds to the San Antonio Area Foundation
>> Nizkor Fund as a tax-exempt donation. If the recording is
>> determined to be fraudulent by reasonable scientific standards,
>> the trust funds will be returned to Mr. Giwer immediately, and the
>> Nizkor Project will immediately tender reasonable interest on
>> the full amount to Mr. Giwer, and meet the cost of
>> establishing and maintaining the trust account. In no event
>> shall either the trust fund or either party’s liability exceed
>> $US10,000.00.
>
>> Mr. Giwer is invited to have his attorney contact me to
>> initiate negotiations leading to the conclusion of such an
>> agreement. (For the purposes of this offer, and subsequent
>> agreement, I designate Mr. Edeiken as my attorney of record,
>> and hereby authorize him to negotiate this matter in my name
>> and to bill me for appropriate professional fees.
>> Should Mr. Edeiken decline this task, I shall designate
>> another American attorney to act in my name.)
>
>> The appropriate phrase at this point would seem to be “Put up,
>> or shut up, Mr. Giwer.”
>
>> Mr. Giwer, of course, is unlikely to accept this offer, as….

> Three comments seem appropriate:

> First: Feasability: The analysis is feasible. I talked with a private voice
>identification firm and they would be able to make the analysis. I have never
>used them for analysis but they were highly recommended to me by the
>laboratory that I used to examine questioned documents. They have excellent
>credentials and have been used by the government and law enforcement bureass
>in New Jersey. They also have some experience with foreign language
>identification. In fact, they have been used to verify a speech by Kruschev.

> The requirements are simple. They would need a good copy of the
>Posnan speech (preferably done with a patch cord) and a copy of another
>speech by him. A known copy from a movie soundtrack would be sufficient if it
>was of the same quality as the Posnan speech. Transcripts of the sppech would
>be helpful.

> For an effective identification there would have to be a minimum of
>twenty identical words that could be compared. Since Himmler spoke at Posnan
>for a considerable amount of time this should be no problem. Since the selection
>of the words would be at issue and the laboratory does not have a German
>speaker on staff, one German speaking represenative from each side could assit
>them..

> Second: Price. The price I was quoted was $1,750.00. Which seems
>a reasonable fee. The document analysis lab I use has a minimum fee of
>$2,500.00 and goes up from there. Further the first $750.00 would be for a
>preliminary analysis. If they found that a complete identification could not be done
>that would be the total fee. The final $1,000.00 would include complete analysis
>and a final report.

> Third. Trust account. There is no need for any special account. Every
>lawyer must maintain (or have access to) a trust account for the deposit of clients
>funds. Withdrawals cannot be made from such an account without notice or,
>depending on the agreement, permission of the client or a court. If Giwer does
>not trust the account that I maintain or the one our firm maintains either his
>attorney could hold it or we could name a neutral attorney to do so.

> Now we can see whether Giwer really wants to examine the evidence
>or is just running his mouth in high gear.

On and on and on. The location of this tape was given as The National
Archives in a Maryland suburb of DC. The FBI lab is at Quantico,
Virginia which is about 30 miles south of DC.

All of this talk when the National Archives can make a day trip to
Quantico and have it verified.

By why do they not have it verified? A waste of time is one
explanation. It was originally presented as having the Herr himself
changing the tape. Thus it was clearly not a broadcast or delivered
version of the speech, whoever made it.

Thus its value is no more than Reagan’s words into an open mike about
the bombs dropping on Russia in proving a plan to bomb Russia.

A tape of a broadcast would be of value. A copy of the tape from the
archives of a radio station would be a value. A transcript of the
speech would be of value.

This tape is of no value to the discussion even if the speaker is
identified as there is no indication that this speech was ever
delivered or, if delivered, what words were used in the delivered
version of the speech.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 08:18:57 PDT 1996
Article: 59403 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph – zb.jpg (1/1)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 02:55:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 7:59:24 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:34:04 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> Yes you are an idiot.

>And you wonder why you get all of the stuff in your mailbox?!?

>So now you concede 2 more points.

========
Path:
ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!fred.enteract.com!chi-news.cic..net!newsfeeder..sdsu..edu!nntp..primenet..com!news..sprintlink..net!news-stk-3..sprintlink..net!rockyd!cmcl2!news..nyu..edu!usenet
From: David Metzger
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THE MAN LOST IT
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:33:24 -0700
Organization: Grynspan hate list
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mlpc80.bobst.nyu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)

Grysnspan was the subject of a legislative hearing a few
years ago for interstate net abuses. The full text was given to
the International Telecommunications Union.

His company lost tons of money because they were on a blacklist
>from the International Organization.

Yet he arrogantly still thinks he rules the nets.
I think everyone should throw a virtual egg at a man who
singlehandedly tried to take his company down
internationally and helped them get blackballed everywhere he
went.

Shame dude….. think what you did to Smartnet NYC.. It is long gone
all thanks to the diahrea mouth of yours.
Maybe Vic Kass should learn to zipper your lip better.
hahahahhaa
Bytebrothers salute to you. OMMMMMMMM Rintell FYDITM
Mish

=====

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 12:30:22 PDT 1996
Article: 59438 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: an interesting exercise
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:39:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 2:38:05 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Recently the issue was raised again about the lack of a top down paper
trail of a policy of mass extermination of Jews not existing.

And again the same handful of tired examples that do not in manner
constitute such a paper trail.

Why is it that holohuggers do not understand what constitutes a paper
trail only in regard to gassing?

Or is it possible that they do not understand the concept of paper
trail at all?

The question becomes whether it is pretend or real ignorance. Do they
really not know what a paper trail is or do they simply pretend not to
know?

In simpler terms, despite what the popular story has it to be,
following orders was an absolute defense at Nuremberg. It was only
those who volunteered or chose the duties that were found to be war
crimes that were punished.

And of course, the defense was never able to produce that chain of
evidence, the paper trail. Either it never existed or it was
destroyed. In either case it did not exist then and does not exist
now.

In my never humble experience the most I have ever PARTICIPATED in
organizing to a new project is about 600 people. If someone were
curious about that and had the time and money they could find
thousands of documents in government archives totalling maybe a
million pages in the five years I was on that project.

And I was simply a participant. I was not in charge. Those in charge
would have many more connections and a wider paper trail.

My signature or initials exist on or are related to at least a
thousand of those documents. And I was not in charge. And that was a
minor effort compared to only the 3000 (five times more people) in the
Einsatzgruppen alone.

But from the holohuggers what do we get from the EG? One “report” by
one man who had been dead for three years. Not one order to any EG.

Were the orders hidden and verbal? If so, why were the reports
written? Would that not violate the same secrecy?

Then we have the few others regarding A-B. They are all little bits
and pieces out of no where. They are no different from finding a US
government letter referring to having found the purpose of button 38a
on the flying saucer but not being able to find anything else about
the flying saucer project.

They are, in the chain of command, like finding a dealer talking about
side mounted gas tanks on trucks and blaming the manufacturer for
deliberately designing them as death traps. Of course, reality was
worse, the expose deliberately ignited them for the story, very like
Russians killing Jews to condemn the Germans.

Tell me anything that you want to tell me save that “it can’t happen”
as using credibility as a guideline means that the gassing can not
have happened.

Belief in a widespread campaign of exterimination without evidence for
it being organized is quite naive.

No such action can be both widespread and without a paper trail.
Anyone who understands paper trails knows this.

It is only those who love James Bond flicks who think that that there
can be such secrecy when ALL the documentation is captured and
available.

But as in Nazi physics violated the physics of the rest of the
universe, the Nazi ability to organize violated and was greater than
all the rest of the world before or since. It is amazing to the point
of incomparable that it could have possibly happened but so many the
holohuggers want to believe it so it must be true.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 12:30:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59458 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:03:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 1:07:25 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:44:07 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Ken McVay OBC wrote:

>>Goebbels would be so proud of Mr. Kreiberg…. the same Nazi
>>contempt for citizens, the law, the Jews, homosexuals,
>>Roma…. what a wonderful image… Denmark, and all 14 of its
>>citizens, having a party on Friday night, celebrating their
>>”freedom.”
>>
>>–
> If you lived within Danish jurisdiction I could easily sue you for libel
>because you are calling me a nazi. I have never advocated dictatorship,
>military expansion etc. so I do not qualify as a nazi. Futhermore Hitler
>said several times that national socialism knows only Germany and is
>not meant for export. Nazism is krautstuff. Are you unable to understand
>that?

And then they think they are safe hiding behind the shield of being
able to call Nazi with impugnity.

It is about time that shield gets tested in court.

Libel is libel but without facts it is clearly libel.

“in my opinion you are a Nazi” is one thing. The clear statement of
being a nazi is libel.

But this is the internet and it quite different as the fools who were
LYING about the contacts by LEO agencies have demonstrated.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 12:30:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59482 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A troll and his mailbombs
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:06:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 4:05:01 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 16:01:05 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>>What admission, Matt? I’ve never admitted to a mailbomb, because I’ve
>>never sent one.

>Ah, but Mr. Giwer has…..
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 12:30:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59485 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:59:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 6:03:42 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 13:38:41 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>>Nobody whines like the Jews and the Holocaust is like the
>>Energizer Rabbit – it keeps going and going and going and

>Did you expect the world to forget, Sir?

There’s no business like Shoah business.

===
Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 12:30:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59496 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Whine, whine, whine
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:15:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 296
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 5:14:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 96 19:50:17, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>It seems that “Dave Harmon”, aka skip, dip, shitbox, whatever,
>decided to complain to UU.NET sent a complaint to the postmaster at
>UUNET Canada.

>Using whois to find out who my provider is on a message is a very
>foolish thing to do – as with anybody else.

>”whois” gives domain, contact and name-service info.

>My upstream link is Internet Canada.

>They have a very strong working arrangement with UUNET Canada.

>They also have very strong working arrangements with others.

>One of them is me.

>I’m their news feed for several nets.

>This same idiot decided to dump a list of newsgroups (a subset of my
>list) into my system. This is what a revisionist thinks is a
>mailbomb!

>Naughty boy!

>Wadda Marroon!

>===================================================

>* Reroute from UU.NET

>@INTL 1:2424/224 1:12/98
>@MSGID: 1:12/98.1 41fa1893
>@REPLYTO 1:12/98.1 UUCP
>@REPLYADDR [email protected]
>@GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.960714
>Apparently-to: [email protected]
>@X-Delivered-From: rodan.UU.NET
>@X-Received-By: OS/2 SMTP Daemon v0.30/gigo
>@Received: ryker Fri Aug 23 11:33:43 1996
>@Received: from fritz.uu.net by rodan.UU.NET with SMTP
>@ (peer crosschecked as: fritz.UU.NET [153.39.247.136])
>@ id QQbeag02860; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:34:10 -0400 (EDT)
>@Received: by fritz.uu.net (leaf)
>@ id QQbeag26801; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:34:09 -0400
>@Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:34:09 -0400
>@Resent-Message-Id:
>@X-Bounced-Via: $Id: bounce-mail,v 1.2 1995/12/07 21:06:09 mfeit Exp $
>@Resent-From: [email protected] (Customer Liaison)
>@Resent-To: [email protected], [email protected]
>@Received: from rodan.UU.NET by odin.UU.NET with ESMTP
>@ (peer crosschecked as: rodan.UU.NET [153.39.130.10])
>@ id QQbdtm17629; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:44:19 -0400 (EDT)
>@Received: from ebola.UU.NET by rodan.UU.NET with ESMTP
>@ (peer crosschecked as: ebola.UU.NET [153.39.130.12])
>@ id QQbdtm07363; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:44:04 -0400 (EDT)
>@Received: from relay5.UU.NET by ebola.UU.NET with ESMTP
>@ (peer crosschecked as: relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15])
>@ id QQbdtm07049; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
>@Received: from netcom.netcom.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP
>@ (peer crosschecked as: netcom.netcom.com [192.100.81.100])
>@ id QQbdtm28446; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:43:25 -0400 (EDT)
>@Received: (from [email protected]) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom)
>@ id LAA02808; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:35:40 -0700
>@Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:35:40 -0700
>From: [email protected] (Dave Harman)
>@Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>@To: [email protected]
>Subject: abuse by one of your customers

>! Path:
>netcom.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.ne
>t!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!new
>s.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bm
>erhc5e.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
>! From: Alec Grynspan
>! Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>! Subject: Re: curiouser and curiouser
>! Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:53:09 -0400
>! Organization: Nervy Manglers
>! Lines: 163
>! Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>! References: <[email protected]>
>! NNTP-Posting-Host: nbrwh134.bnr.ca
>! Mime-Version: 1.0
>! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>! X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)
>!
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> All 256 are not identical save in one feature, they contain the
>> result of a WHOIS query of milnet of kmcvay.

>Because you have been answering challenges with nothing but SPAM.

>You repeat a message that is meaningless.

>You imply all sorts of dark and dire nonsense.

>You obviously like repetition.

>SO you got it sent to you.

>>
>> Lets see now, someone at gryn.org has threatened “This is just the
>> start, Matt” when the only thing in common is the result of the whois
>> query. And not of the internic information but of the milnet
>> information.
>>
>> Why is that, folks? What is there about the milnet information
>> that draws such a response from a person completely unconnected with Nizkor
>> or kmcvay? Or is there some sort of connection?

>There is no connection, Matt.

>Just annoyance.

>>
>> What is the interest of someone at gryn.org in sending mail bombs
>> regarding the only common information of kmcvay’s DOD connection? Is
>> there some sort of connection with the DOD for the both of them?

>No – but your continued nonsense will have an interesting effect.

>>
>> And what is “nonsense” about what the DOD whois server contains?
>>

>The nonsense is your using it as a response to challenges.

>> If it is erroneous then someone should get the information
>> corrected.

>Why not make the connection, Matt?

>>
>> Or has is already been “corrected” as in deleted and is no longer
>> “true?” And if deleted, why?
>>

>You seem to have a truly significant reading problem.

>> That is it. It appears the mail bomb was sent to notify me that
>> the information had been deleted from nic.ddn.mil. Now it can be
>> claimed to be untrue even though I am not the only one to have looked it up
>> and know it was there. I am far from the only one who looked it up.
>>

>You are making innuendoes and begging the question.

>Again – what business is it of anybody’s if somebody gets a contact
>registration with .mil?

>> It is interesting to know that 1B Management Systems Limited still
>> exists. But why would gryn.org be the one to send the “message”? It
>> is all so “mafiosa-like.” Do I get a fish wrapped in newspaper next?
>> No, that is an after the fact message.

>You are making innuendoes and begging the question.

>Again – what business is it of anybody’s if somebody gets a contact
>registration with .mil?
>>
>> And why is it so important to hide that information? Why is it so
>> important to hide the Nizkor connection to the US DOD via kmcvay?
>> What is wrong with a person’s employment? The connection was likely
>> meaningless until tonight’s mail bomb.
>>

>It is still meaningless and that was not a mail bomb.

>If it had been a real mail bomb, you would still be digging your way
>out.

>> Before the mailbomb it was just a matter of curiousity and would
>> certainly have corrected the “gas station jockey” image of kmcvay.
>> Now it appears to be something in need of hiding. Before, idle
>> speculation, after, intensive curiosity. What a fool thing to have
>> done.
>>

>So? Make your accusations.

>> And if it is not true, why does [email protected] still
>> work? Try it quick before it is changed. Just say “Hi!” and if you get
>> a response or not, note that your mail is not rejected as
>> undeliverable. Now why would a person be removed from the DOD whois list
>> but still have an account with the defense contractor?

>Why does Matt Giwer refuse to reveal the real reason that he can find no
>work?

>>
>> What is the point of this bit of amateurishness? An obvious
>> suggestion is that the public record needs be hidden but it will take
>> a while for all of the business contacts to get the new email address
>> so that he can vanish completely from 1B Systems Management Limited.
>>

>You seem to be good at interpreting things. Too bad it has nothing to do
>with reality.

>Your totally out to lunch, as always.

>> What is going on here? and why?

>I ggot annoyed at your repetition, so I’ve set up a little utility that
>will send you copies of each message where you repeat a message but
>avoid the challenge.

>>
>> Lets put it all together. I first hear of the information with the
>> suggestion of a CIA connection. Then someone at an org (gryn.org)
>> owned by a person who has at least claimed past intelligence
>> connections (Mossad) sends me a mail bomb as a clever way of telling
>> me the entry has been deleted from the DOD list.
>>

>You’ve truly lost it, Matt.

>I implied no such thing.

>But you knew that.

>> I presume this will incite gryn.org to send another mail bomb which
>> will be duly reported here to keep the subject alive. You would think
>> people would be bright enough to know that if things are ignored they
>> die out quickly and no one pays attention. The way it is going, the
>> objective appears to be to keep this issue alive as long as possible.
>>

>And if the next repeat is ten times as big?

>It’s on auto, Matt.

>> After all, the mail bomb just gave it new life.

>What mail bomb, Matt?

>>
>> This gets curiouser and curiouser.
>>
>> Is it any more interesting than this?

>More of your nonsense.

>As is obvious to anyone who bothers to look, the registration of contact
>names in any NIC is an automatic function.

>Please make the connection.

>-+-
>AVia 1:12/98.1 19960823.163954.UTC gigo 099.960714+
>=============================================================================

>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

It appears we have a person here who really believes he controls the
net as was the earlier complaint and he is also an admitted murderer
for a Jewish intelligence organization.

So what is really the point here?

A man who had admitted he is a murderer for the Mossad is not
claiming connections with god herself and claiming to be able to get
away with mailbombing. What does he do next, real mail bombing? More
wetwork for the Mossad? Or for his own perverted pleasure?

He has publically discussed his murdering ways in this conference.
Yet he chooses to call reference to his murders that he admitted
libel. Why is that?

Wetwork is murder. People who do wetwork for intelligence
organizations are murderers. If they did not do such wetwork even
though they claimed to have done so then they are liars.

So, Alec, are you a murderer or a liar?

That is a simple question and a simple answer will resolve the issue.
Are you a murderer or a liar? Which is it?

Why is it so hard for you to answer the question?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 14:44:07 PDT 1996
Article: 59546 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news1.inlink.com!news.dra.com!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The not so famous story.
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:43:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 2:41:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:35:25 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>My understanding is that you know who, backed in tell everyone he was
>a Parker house roll. :-))))
>ROFL
> The Nizkor Project:
> Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
> * * * On the web * * *
> |
> Honoring the memory of Pooh.bah
> |
> WWW.Nizkor.org

Since you have posted in its memory, you will get the credit for its
memory.

So be it.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 15:19:11 PDT 1996
Article: 59576 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark…
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:44:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4v1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22 11:48:26 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:37:32 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> I am simply discussing the matter of a pure democracy and that it can
>> do anything that a majority decide to do in any manner that a majority
>> is determined by them.
>>
>> If you have a problem with that, then what is your problem?

>All in favour of having Matt Giwer hit with a cream pie on national
>television while he is standing in plaid trousers singing “La Marseillaise”
>in a wading pool full of earthworms please signify by saying “aye”.

All in favor of morrison discussing his vast knowledge of rivers,
scratch your balls.

>Ain’t pure democracy wunnerful?

That is what guns are for.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 15:19:12 PDT 1996
Article: 59577 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What secret?
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:25:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 2:24:33 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Why would a reference to a “gassing room” in Krema II be as
unclassified and out in the open as the reference to the delousing
chamber in Krema II?

Do you holohuggers want to start the competition creating the least
incredible explanation?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 20:04:39 PDT 1996
Article: 59638 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Just in case anyone missed it
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:01:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 2:05:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 20:04:39 PDT 1996
Article: 59640 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel, UFO Man (Re: Sign up for the WORLD famous
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 08:56:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-29.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 19 2:00:11 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 09:07:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> Thing is, I’ve read a couple of interviews with and he’s said that the
>> “UFO REsearch” stuff was basically a sensationalistic way for him to
>> raise easy cash from fringe-types to finance his revisionist exploits.
>> It’s certainly not necessary now that the hate prosecutions he’s
>> undergone have upped his profile and made him a millionaire, but I’m
>> sure it’s a good sideline, and might sucker some X-Files types into his
>> neo-Nazi lair!
>
>Even if Zundel’s lame excuse is true, is someone trustworthy who makes up
>a story just to get some money?
>
>He’s admitting that he lied for “easy” cash.
>
>That, of course, reflects on his veracity in general, doesn’t it?
>
>Personally, I think the guy is a kook. And a dangerous one besides.

According to Schindler’s widow so is his List.

So what is the difference?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 20:04:40 PDT 1996
Article: 59641 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: An Ignorant Imbecile, I
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:02:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 5:01:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:10:07 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Yet again, our 163-IQ’ed “leading revisionist”, Matt Giwer,
>proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
>nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) posted:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## A high concentration of CO can
>## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
>## concentration of HCN will kill them.

># There is none from a diesel engine. Even you
># should know that.

>”The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”, by
>J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
>Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

>Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
>engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
>ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
>exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
>which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
>on page 99).

Remember that we have been over this irrelevent nonsense months ago,
twice even. It was always nonsense and it is still nonsense.

Anyone interested can go look it up on DejaNews. It has nothing to do
with the discussion at hand and I have no interest in leading you by
the nose through it one more time.

Sorry, but this newsgroup is moving onward and is not rehashing
holohugger nonsense.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 24 22:15:57 PDT 1996
Article: 59653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:29:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 6:33:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 01:01:06 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu
wrote:

>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>>
>> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>>
>> >> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > Some questions: what could be the use of a sealed door and especially
>> >> > of a judas hole in the door of a morgue ? and why did the Germans
>> >> > study (and ever command a heating system) for these morgues ?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Faurisson’s opinion is that it was frequent to protect buildings
>> >> from an evetual bombardment with sealed doors.
>>
>> >Interesting, then, that _only_ the entrances to the delousing and
>> >homicidal gas chambers had such doors while the rest of the entrnaces to
>> >buildings in the camp did not, yes? Mr. Faurisson’s “opinion” on this is
>> >absurd.
>>
>> It’s indeed interesting, but what was the use of the judas hole ? to
>> see if the planes were gone ?
>>

> Again, the only explanation I have on that is from the same review,
> page 103: here Faurisson refer to page 456 of A.T.O. where Pressac
> show is 34 criminal proof, another gas tight door with a juda whole
> and the door is literally mention in German as a ‘gas chamber door’
> In 1980, during the Faurisson trial , la LICRA tried to use this document
> against Faurisson but he replied that this was a door for the delousing
> facility. I’ve not the other book where he present perhaps more details,
> all I know is that in the german sentence he quoted there’s no reference
> to any leichenkeller in association with this juda hole. The way Faurisson
> wrote it, it seems that Pressac recognize that it is for a delousing
> facility, but the paragraph is a bit confuse here. I don’t know if
> there’s a juda hole for A door which is explicitelly refered as a
> Leichenkeller’s door.

> However, I don’t find really extraordinnary the fact that a door,
> wether it is for an appartment, a house, a morturaty or a delousing
> facility as a juda hole or a window. Some doors have it, some other
> not.

As the ZB can was put inside and the door closed before it was opened
by action from the outside it was certainly convenient to have a look
at the can in the event that anything went wrong.

A hole and a light on delousing chamber doors is certainly reasonable.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:18 PDT 1996
Article: 59661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting) – gas.wb1 (1/1)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:45:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 210
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 21 6:49:35 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

begin 644 gas.wb1
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M““EP$5“`/““`@`$“\“““#“““`)D!`0“FP$!“&2`0“\P,@
M“`,!P((`@““!’ Wieder mit dem
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:47:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
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On 24 Aug 1996 00:24:23 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> >> An unknown person made a recording.
>
>> > Himmler is hardly unknown.

>> >> That is exactly all we have on the matter. All this crap about
>> >> ausrottung is quite a laugh when we have no solid knowledge of who
>> >> recorded it or if it was ever delivered.
>
>> > Wrong again. You’re getting very desperate.

>> Sorry, consigliere, it was orginally presented EXACTLY as I have
>> recounted it.

> That is an out and out lie. It has always been presented at Himmler’s
>speech recorded as he gave it at a given place and on a given date to a given
>audience. The National Archives — which will sell you a copy if you wish to
>divert some of your money from from the liquor store — says so. Nobody but you
>and a select few of your nazi buddies has ever said otherwise.

> But now you have a chance to prove it.

> You have read McVay’s challenge. You have even responded to the
>posting.

> *You* can now prove your claims without the expenditure of a single
>penny.

> You won’t.

> You make a big noise but you know who the liar is.

> You know it is you.

Sorry, schyster, that is exactly where I came into this conference
again last year.

It was presented exactly as I have described it.

It was my most recent re-introduction to this ng that indicated is was
no more intelligent than was years ago. It is still full of lying
holohuggers as you know and as you know you are one of them. Now why
do you not sue me for telling the truth, or at least threaten to do so
as an attorney and be disbarred just for the fun of it?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:20 PDT 1996
Article: 59676 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.sics.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:06:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 22 Aug 96 18:09:00 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> I only control this newsgroup at the moment. Get used to it.

>Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment and to
>reply to “RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn’t dare to answer.”?

Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
I do control this Newsgroup. If you would first get them to agree
that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
over.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:21 PDT 1996
Article: 59683 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What’s wrong with German? was Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:58:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:07:21 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

># Almost as dumb as giving credibility to “gassing evidence”
># presented by the Allies.

>Shrug. Let’s start with the following. It was given by
>a German testifying in a German court. One of many.

> From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
>[Quoted in “‘The Good Old Days'” – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
>Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
>————————————————————–
>At another, later gassing — also in autumn 1941 — Grabner* ordered
>me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
>had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
>openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
>also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
>As the Zyklon B — as already mentioned — was in granular form, it
>trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
>started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
>them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
>as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
>was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
>fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
>higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

> * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz

>

Thanks for another one for the reference. It is interesting that
medical orderlies were the ones who poured in the ZB instead of the
uniformed type we have been lead to believe by other stories.

Interesting time frames also. A few minutes to death and ten to
fifteen minutes before the doors are opened. Would you not consider
that rather dangerous when it means that 80% of the gas has not been
released?

># By definition the Germans were being tried by its enemies.

>Not really, nazi-boy.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:22 PDT 1996
Article: 59697 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:01:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:40:11 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On 21 Aug 1996 21:20:13 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>Gee, armies of Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung weren’t illogical, goofy,
>>and stupid, and did commit genocide by the normal convenient means of
>>bullets and starvation, without resorting to goofy gas chambers.

>Further testimony of Rudolf Hoess:

>”The gassing was carried out in the detention cells of Block 11.
>Protected by a gas mask, I watched the killing myself. In the crowded
>cells. death came instantaneously the moment the Zyclon B was thrown
>in. A short smothered cry, and it was all over….I must admit that
>the gassing set my mind to rest, for the mass extermination of the
>Jews was to start soon, and at that time neither Eichmann nor I was
>certain as to how these mass killings were to be carried out. It would
>be by gass, but we did not know which gass and how it was to be used.
>Now we had the gas, and we had established a procedure….”

>Arad, Yitzak. Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, the Operation Reinhard Death
>Camps. The Indiana University Press. 1987. pp. 9-10

Well done.

Hoess was there at the time. He wore a gas mask. Death was instant.

You make a great revisionist.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:22 PDT 1996
Article: 59700 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:09:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
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On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 18:32:18 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>”The nazis were fighting a 2-front war

>This in itself was pretty stupid. I know, you didn’t ask me. 🙂

>> Or even if they had wanted to “gas” jews instead of
>>easily shooting them,

>Herr Wankmeister thinks shooting human beings up close and personal is
>an easy thing. Amazing that he would say considering he’s not doing
>any of the work.

Over 3 million were killed that way. How hard can it be?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:12:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 24 Aug 1996 02:37:57 GMT, [email protected] (ibokor) wrote:

>Kurt Stele wrote:
>
>OH. And I’m sure the nazis who were at war on
>2 fronts had -nothing better- to do with all of
>this allegedly-confiscated jewish money
>than to invest it into a needless inter-continental
>train transportation scheme to transport jews.

>d A. corrected:

>”intra-continental”, not “inter-continental”

It is good to see you posting additional evidence that the intention
was NEVER to exterminate all Jews but to remove Jews from Europe. As
we all know, even though Germany controlled many parts of Asia and
Africa Jews there were never shipped to any work camps.

The lack of intercontinental shipping supports the basic position as
publically stated by the Nazis.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59703 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:25:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:24:23 AM CDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:16:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># How many times are you folks going to spam ads for
># Nizkor? And what is the difference between what you
># folks post and what I post?

>The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
>a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
>not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
>Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.

How do you know? I attempted to contact the person on the subject but
no email was returned and then the listing disappeared.

So how do you know?

>It is totally and completely clear that you’re doing it
>only to put this person in danger. There’s no other
>reason whatsoever.

What danger? My phone number and address have been up for a long time
and there has not been the slightest hint of danger even though
holohuggers are known for violence.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59710 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:48:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:47:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 96 18:39:34 GMT, [email protected] (Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says…
>>whatever it was Sara it couldn’t have been as dumb as the
>claim that nazis>who were supposedly trying to exterminate jews
>had to use gas chambers>instead of guns because the nazis were
>simply “too sensitive” to fire>their weapons.

>Wouldn’t YOU have a problem with shooting naked, sobbing women
>and babies with machine guns?

>No?

>Oh.

Given that the story has it that OVER 3 million men, women and
children were shot why do you think there would suddenly be a problem
with shooting another 2 million or so?

Or do you have a different story to promote?

From [email protected]etcom.com Sun Aug 25 09:52:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59712 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: How many were shot by the Einsatzgruppen
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:56:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:55:37 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

That is an open question but we do have an anchor in the 6 million.
As we know, the number of dead Jews always added up to six million and
the total number of dead always added up to 12 million.

And as we know a few years ago the number of the gassed as Auschwitz
decreased from about 4 million to about 1 million. The number of
gassings at the other camps was not increased so the only place the
slack can be taken up is if this 3 million reduction is moved into the
kill column of the Einsatzgruppen.

Prior to this change we have the EG being credited with some 1.4
million executions of Jews. Therefore after this change the EG are to
be credited with 4.4 million executions of Jews with guns.

So why does the question come up that AFTER executing some 4.4 million
people that they were somehow “tired of” or had lost the motivation
for executing another 1 million or so? And because of that the entire
railroad shipping and gassing facilities and crematoria had to be
built at Auschwitz.

All of that effort for less than 25% more shootings.

Of all of the absurd claims, this one is close to the top of the list.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:26 PDT 1996
Article: 59720 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!nntp1.jpl.nasa.gov!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.fibr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:28:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 12:32:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:06:15 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>> murderer.

>That is a libel – utterly, Matt.

>Bon Voyage!

You told me you did wet work for the Mossad. That is called murder.
Or were you lying when you told me that and admitted it in this
conference?

Despite your 007 fantasies there is no license to kill. Now if you
have pardons from all the involved countries, which you have never
mentioned, then you are simply a killer, or a liar about having
killed.

Or are you claiming “hitting puberty” was is the libel. Or are you
withdrawing your claim to having been the youngest person in the
Mossad?

Just what are you up to here?

You told me on the phone that you had killed in wet work. Wet work is
murder in case no one ever told you.

I mentioned it on this conference. You agreed you had done it. What
other than murder were you admitting to?

There is no “good cause” for killing other than self defense. Wet
work is not self defense. It is murder.

So why would you claim not to be a murderer?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 59722 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:24:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 3:22:47 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:20:41 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Since when does engine exhaust constitute a special hazard?

>The Just-to-Becker letter mentions a case of “explosion”
>in Chelmno. Possibly, it happened because of overpressure
>being built in the chamber, because the letter also suggests
>means with which to prevent this buildup.

Absolutely impossible. There is no possible build up of pressure that
does not shut down the engine. And there is no pressure vessel
anyplace.

You really are a mathematician at best.

># Do you have a straight face when you type these things?

>You are incapable of judging the accuracy of such matters,
>as you have proven, again and again and again, that you
>have no understanding whatsoever of any technical matter,
>be it cremation, diesel engines, Zyklon-B, HCN etc. In case
>you forgot, I’ll be happy to post a list of incredibly
>idiotic claims which you posted about these matters.

And of course you believe in presurized gas chambers that have never
been discovered. No pressure whatsoever was built up in any building
as not one of them is sealed.

You are clearly an asshole.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 59723 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!aonline!news.mhtc.net!news.midplains.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: before I forget
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:56:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 2:54:33 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:11:21 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Who has a problem with this and why?
>>
>> These are the facts.
>>
>> No one has denied them.
>>
>> What is the US DOD connection of Nizkor and the US DOD?

>What is your connection with NAMBLA?

I was on their hit list for dirty tricks sponsored by the coalition.

>> Why does gryn.org permit major mailbombing as the only response to
>> this? Consider that the ownere of gryn.org had claimed to be a
>> murderer of two Americans.

>I have never admitted to any murders.

>I have never murdered anybody.

You said you killed two people in wetwork and admitted it here. That
is murder. A government sanction does not make it less than murder.
But you may have lied about the wetwork. If you lied then you
murdered no one.

I am rather surprised to find a wetworker denying it is murder.

>> So we have a self admitted murderer who is mail bombing me. Why is
>> this happening? The owner has admitted here that his has murdered
>> Americans. There is no question asked about that. They are his own
>> words.

>They are not my words because I didn’t say them. I never have.

So what did you say? Please be specific in your answer.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:28 PDT 1996
Article: 59724 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark…
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:28:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 3:26:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:57:40 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> I am simply discussing the matter of a pure democracy and that it can
>> >> do anything that a majority decide to do in any manner that a majority
>> >> is determined by them.
>> >>
>> >> If you have a problem with that, then what is your problem?
>>
>> >All in favour of having Matt Giwer hit with a cream pie on national
>> >television while he is standing in plaid trousers singing “La Marseillaise”
>> >in a wading pool full of earthworms please signify by saying “aye”.
>>
>> All in favor of morrison discussing his vast knowledge of rivers,
>> scratch your balls.

>Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Matt. I calculated that the velocity of the
>river could be 30% slower at the boundaries and still pick up your magical
>bone particles.

>So tell me, what did you calculate the correct figure to be?

You are clearly lying. The velocity at the boundary is zero and it is
a matter or the turbulence at the boundary that entrains anything.
And you know that. Boudary conditions are always zero as you know but
would rather lie about.

But then I may be wrong. Post your calculations in any format you
wish. I will be most interested in calling the bluff of a holohugger.

>> >Ain’t pure democracy wunnerful?
>>
>> That is what guns are for.

>Children and senile fools shouldn’t be allowed near guns. Especially is they
>have the tendancy to use them on their own feet.

Humans will kill if denied the means of self defense. Take heed.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:29 PDT 1996
Article: 59727 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:37:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 274
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.usenet.kooks:28537 alt.politics.usa.republican:262319 alt.conspiracy:81178 alt.revisionism:59727 alt.society.conservatism:50472 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:362002

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:33:11 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:14:21 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >The Holocaust Museum focuses on VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST.
>> >
>> >The Jews.
>> >The Gypsies.
>> >Homosexuals.
>> >Catholics.
>> >
>> >ALL the victims of the Holocaust.
>> >
>> >Have you BEEN to the US Holocaust Museum or are you just speaking out of
>> >your ass?
>>
>> Are you pretending you have not read any of the material direct from
>> their website, including the teaching materials, that is contrary to
>> your claim?
>>
>> You are trying to elevate the 6 million in the footnote to the same
>> status as the focus on the 6 million tragedy.
>
>Bullshit, Mr. Giwer.
>
>Pure, unadulterated bullshit.
>
>But you KNEW that.
>
> This is from the Museum’s mission statement:

>”The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
>annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators
>between 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims — six million
>were murdered; Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted
>for destruction or decimation for racial, ethnic, or national reasons.
>Millions more, including homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Soviet
>prisoners of war, and political dissidents also suffered grievous
>oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.”

>
>Once again, Mr. Giwer shows his inate ability to lie.

Which means they should be charged with malfeasance for not fulfilling
the objectives.

Here is a definition of what the holocaust was.

http://www.ushmm.org/misc-bin/add_goback/education/history.html

THE HOLOCAUST: AN HISTORICAL
SUMMARY

The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic annihilation of six
million Jews by the Nazi
regime and their collaborators as a central act of state during World
War II.

First we have six million Jews as the definition.

In 1933
approximately nine million Jews lived in the 21 countries of Europe
that would be occupied
by Germany during the war. By 1945 two out of every three European
Jews had been killed.

And an addendum.

Although Jews were the primary victims, hundreds of thousands of Roma
(Gypsies) and at
least 250,000 mentally or physically disabled persons were also
victims of Nazi genocide.

So for openers we have a few hundred thousand of everyone else, not
six million of everyone else.

You should obviously go to their website and read their material. Any
impressions you might have come away with are your problem only. What
they have as published material is another matter entirely.

http://www.ushmm.org/misc-bin/add_goback/education/5quest.html

Five Questions About the Holocaust

1. What was the Holocaust?

The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
annihilation of
European Jewry by the Nazi Germany and its collaborators between 1933
and 1945. In 1933
approximately nine million Jews lived in the 21 countries of Europe
that would be occ upied
by Germany during World War II.

http://www.ushmm.org/misc-bin/add_goback/education/guidelines.html

GUIDELINES FOR TEACHING ABOUT THE
HOLOCAUST

The primary mission of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is
to promote
education about the history of the Holocaust and its implications for
our lives today. This
pamphlet is intended to assist educators who are preparing to teach
Holocaust studies and
related subjects.

Why Teach Holocaust History?

The history of the Holocaust represents one of the most effective, and
most extensively
documented, subjects for a pedagogical examination of basic moral
issues. A structured
inquiry into Holocaust history yields critical lessons for an
investigation of human behavior. A
study of the Holocaust also addresses one of the central tenets of
education in the United
States which is to examine what it means to be a responsible citizen.
Through a study of the
Holocaust, students can come to realize that:

democratic institutions and values are not automatically
sustained, but need to be
appreciated, nurtured, and protected;
silence and indifference to the suffering of others, or to the
infringement of civil rights in
any society, can — however, unintentionally — serve to
perpetuate the problems; and
the Holocaust was not an accident in history — it occurred
because individuals,
organizations, and governments made choices which not only
legalized discrimination,
but which allowed prejudice, hatred, and ultimately, mass murder
to occur.

Questions of Rationale

Because the objective of teaching any subject is to engage the
intellectual curiosity of the
student in order to inspire critical thought and personal growth, it
is helpful to structure your
lesson plan on the Holocaust by considering throughout, questions of
rationale. Before
addressing what and how to teach, we would recommend that you
contemplate the following:

Why should students learn this history?
What are the most significant lessons students can learn about the
Holocaust?
Why is a particular reading, image, document, or film an
appropriate medium for
conveying the lessons about the Holocaust which you wish to teach?

Among the various rationales offered by educators who have
incorporated a study of the
Holocaust into their various courses and disciplines are these:

The Holocaust was a watershed event, not only in the 20th century,
but in the entire
history of humanity.
Study of the Holocaust assists students in developing
understanding of the
ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping in any
society. It helps students
develop an awareness of the value of pluralism, and encourages
tolerance of diversity
in a pluralistic society.
The Holocaust provides a context for exploring the dangers of
remaining silent,
apathetic, and indifferent in the face of others’ oppression.
Holocaust history demonstrates how a modern nation can utilize its
technological
expertise and bureaucratic infrastructure to implement destructive
policies ranging from
social engineering to genocide.
A study of the Holocaust helps students think about the use and
abuse of power, and
the role and responsibilities of individuals, organizations, and
nations when confronted
with civil rights violations and/or policies of genocide.
As students gain insight into the many historical, social,
religious, political, and
economic factors which cumulatively resulted in the Holocaust,
they gain a perspective
on how history happens, and how a convergence of factors can
contribute to the
disintegration of civilized values. Part of one’s responsibility
as a citizen in a
democracy is to learn to identify the danger signals, and to know
when to react.

When you, as an educator, take the time to consider the rationale for
your lesson on the
Holocaust, you will be more likely to select content that speaks to
your students’ interests and
which provides them with a clearer understanding of the history. Most
students demonstrate a
high level of interest in studying the Holocaust precisely because the
subject raises questions
of fairness, justice, individual identity, peer pressure, conformity,
indifference, and obedience
— issues which adolescents confront in their daily lives. Students
are also struck by the
magnitude of the Holocaust, and the fact that so many people acting as
collaborators,
perpetrators, and bystanders allowed this genocide to occur by failing
to protest or resist.

Methodological Considerations

1. Define what you mean by “Holocaust”.
The Holocaust refers to a specific event in 20th century history:
The systematic,
bureaucratic annihilation of six million Jews by the Nazi regime
and their collaborators
as a central act of state during World War II. In 1933
approximately nine million Jews
lived in the 21 countries of Europe that would be occupied by
Germany during the war.
By 1945 two out of every three European Jews had been killed.
Although Jews were
the primary victims, up to one half million Gypsies and at least
250,000 mentally or
physically disabled persons were also victims of genocide. As Nazi
tyranny spread
across Europe from 1933 to 1945, millions of other innocent people
were persecuted
and murdered. More than three million Soviet prisoners of war were
killed because of
their nationality. Poles, as well as other Slavs, were targeted
for slave labor, and as a
result of the Nazi terror, almost two million perished.
Homosexuals and others deemed
“anti-social” were also persecuted and often murdered. In
addition, thousands of
political and religious dissidents such as communists, socialists,
trade unionists, and
Jehovah’s Witnesses were persecuted for their beliefs and behavior
and many of these
individuals died as a result of maltreatment.

7. Try to avoid stereotypical descriptions.
Though all Jews were targeted for destruction by the Nazis, the
experiences of all Jews
were not the same. Simplistic views and stereotyping take place
when groups of
people are viewed as monolithic in attitudes and actions. How
ethnic groups or social
clusters are labeled and portrayed in school curricula has a
direct impact on how
students perceive groups in their daily lives. Remind your
students that although
members of a group may share common experiences and beliefs,
generalizations
about them, without benefit of modifying or qualifying terms
(e.g., “sometimes,”
“usually,” “in many cases but not all”) tend to stereotype group
behavior and distort
historical reality. Thus, all Germans cannot be characterized as
Nazis, nor should any
nationality be reduced to a singular or one-dimensional
description.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:30 PDT 1996
Article: 59734 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:02:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 5:01:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 01:20:22 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 24 Aug 1996 03:46:18 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In , [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>>>>> murderer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Of course you realize that this is a defamatory statement.
>>
>>>Actually, it’s a libelous statement.
>>
>> You have publically and privately admitted killing people under the
>>guise of welwork. That is an admission to murder. Where do you think
>>you were when the rules were handed out?

>You are delusional. I admitted no such thing!

DejaNews, good sir. I specifically asked you if I could talk about
and you said I would not know the circumstances so it would not
mattere what I said.

You also responded to several other questions on the subject in the
affirmative, defensive even.

>> You have clearly admitted to murder. Or were you lying in the
>>admission?
>>
>You are definitely a fruitcake, Matt.

>You’ve lost it completely and are living in your own fantasy world!

It is good to see that you deny ever having been involved in wetwork
for the Mossad.

May I cast this denial in concrete?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:31 PDT 1996
Article: 59735 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Proof of Jewish Media Control
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:05:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 5:04:13 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 08:58:33 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>and the rest -are- jewish. Also, the top -3- are. Gosh, I’m starting to
>>realize the holohugger mentality is incapable of grasping the larger
>>ideas. They seem to always be stuck on the exceptions instead of the rule.
>> It’s that holohugger legendary obfuscation tactic coming into play

>Glad you brought that up, Mr. Stele – that “exceptions” stuff.
>Worthless, eh? I agree 100%, so let’s cut to the rule….
>which, alas, you have been unable to address thus far.

>Might I remind you, Sir?

>How many newspaper publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many magazine publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many cable broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many radio broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many television broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>I know, I know, it’s a tough set of data to deal with, but
>hey, you _are_ the expert here – at least I assume you have
>expertise, since you share your beliefs with us, and those
>beliefs are obviously based upon solid and scrupulous
>research, right?

>I’ll give you a hint, Bucky…. the United States and Canadian
>governments have the answers to some of these questions – finding
>the rest, for an obvious scholar like yourself, well, hey,
>that should be easy.

>I know you’re busy… life’s like that these days, eh? So I
>will remind you from time to time – your own virtual memory,
>you know?

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/
too many

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:32 PDT 1996
Article: 59736 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: even more types of specia
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:53:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:52:16 AM PDT 1996

On Fri, 23 Aug 96 22:35:00 +0100, [email protected] (ANGUS
MCLELLAN) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes
>[Is there a one-word synonym for “writes completely irrelevantly” ?]
>Subject: even more types of specialty filters

>> One size does not fit all. One filter does not fit all.
>>Gas Masks
>> Replacement Canisters for Gas Masks
>>Replacement Canisters for Chin Type Gas Masks
>

>And where did that fascinating data come from ? If Giwer translated it
>himself from the German Army’s WWII manual on chemical warfare
>protective equipment I should be most impressed. If, on the other hand,
>it is not from a German WWII-era source but from a modern US one, I
>might be moved to ask what relevance such a source could possibly have
>to the alien world of the Thousand Year Reich.

>The only matter of any importance is whether the standard German
>military gas mask of WWII protected from hydrogen cyanide. Harris and
>Paxman (*) mention tests of protective equipment (i.e. masks) using
>hydrogen cyanide. This, plus the “obvious” point that the German Armed
>Forces could be expected to issue equipment which protected against one
>of the main weapons in their own CW arsenal, suggests to me that it is
>fair to assume that German gas masks would be effective against hydrogen
>cyanide (**).

Except that HCN was never in the CW arsenal of any country in the
world and still in not.

Beyond that, nice try.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:32 PDT 1996
Article: 59738 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:27:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:26:34 AM CDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:53:19, [email protected] (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)

>Dkeren writes:
>>Once again: the claim “why would they have used up
>>resources in transporting the Jews” is void, because
>>they *did* transport them. “Revisionists” claim they
>>were transported deep into the USSR, which would
>>have wasted *more* resources than transporting them
>>to the death camps, which were closer.

>I assume by the statement: “Revisionists” claim they were
>transported deep into the USSR…” that you mean revisionists have
>claimed that THE NAZI’S made transports “deep into the USSR.”

>Can you please cite a revisionist book or article which makes this
>claim. Please don’t bother citing comments made on this newsgroup.

It would not matter. The only thing related to that is the claim in
this newsgroup has been that the Russians evacuated them for their own
safety.

===

The story is supported by the holohugger claim that a returning woman
found a whole shed full of pure jewish soap.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT

4/30/81:
The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
Rachel Patron, who
claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
Soviets during WWII (and
you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis).
Ms.
Patron goes on to
state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to
Poland
she found a shed full of
soap made from Jews. Isn’t it interesting how these Holocaust
survivors can remember
seeing things that never existed?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:33 PDT 1996
Article: 59739 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:37:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:36:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:43:03 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>> They seemed to want to maintain the fiction. You scoff at the secret
>>>that was not a secret, but you obviously forget the “secret” bombing of
>>>Cambodia.
>>
>> I was watching the news at the time it was going on. It is difficult
>>to call something a secret when it is on the evening news. I have
>>never understood how the term “secret” got attached to it.
>>

>The secret was that they were bombing inside Cambodia proper. They
>were EXPANDING the war. We were always bombing near Cambodia.

So if it was in the news that there was bombing inside Cambodia, how
was it a secret?

As for the secret gassing that was not a secret, I have read the
holohugger claims that it was a well known war rumor, that it was
carried on SW radio out of Switzerland, and that it was made public
knowledge by several escapees.

It was even personally told to the Pope, FDR and Churchill. One
presumes DeGaulle was let in on it as his countrymen were being sent
to workcamps.

And if you do not have common knowledge of the gassing among the
average German then you only have “collective responsibility” for
people being sent to well run work camps. Unpleasant of course but
ask the Nisei or any of your relatives who were adults during WW II
about it.

No, I have not collected those stories yet. They will make an
interesting collection one of these days.

Or were those stories untrue?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:34 PDT 1996
Article: 59740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:47:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:46:30 AM CDT 1996

On 24 Aug 1996 17:55:39 GMT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Kurt Stele)
>writes:
>:>
>:>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>:>
>:>>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>[deleted]

>:>After the Polish jews -did- find out about the “secret extermination plan”
>:>why did the nazis -continue- to send them to the camps anyway? If
>:>according to Keren the reason for inconveniently locating the camps
>:>hundreds of miles away was “to keep the extermination plan a secret” then
>:>why would there be any need to continue transporting them to the camps
>:>just to be killed there instead of nearby at no expense, since the jews in
>:>Poland already “found out” about the “secret extermination plan”?

>Mr. Stele is now in full backpedalling mode. He ignored the rather important
>question as to what exactly the unarmed and conquered Jews were supposed to do
>about it.

Get guns.

And use them.

They tried to tell the world and were unceremoniously ignored. But
>Mr. Stele knows that.

So you hold that the world did know all about it. Good.

>:>If the Germans -really- wanted to exterminate the jews then the Germans
>:>would not concoct some ludicrous and costly inter-continental train
>:>transportation scheme just to keep it a secret for fear of a jewish
>:>-armed- rebellion — that’s actually a laughable thought. Why would the
>:>Germans give two shits if the jews or any other group in occupied
>:>territory for that matter opposed the Reich’s policies? The Nazis ruled
>:>Europe with an iron fist. They was no need for the nazis to fear a
>:>reprisal from “armed jews.”

>Now our resident halfwit forgets that the Jews were not transported
>inter-continentally. Or he glosses over it. He also contradicts himself. If
>the Nazis ruled Europe with an iron fist, then the Jews finfding out about the
>extermination camps would do them no good, would it?

They could start killing Germans. Knife them in orgasm if necessary.
Take the gun. Use that gun to get more guns.

>He also conveniently implies–falsely as usual–that the switch from shooting
>to gassing was based on economics. It was not, as anyone who has taken the
>time to read up on the issue knows. Much of the consideration was to spare
>the poor SS men the necessity to shoot unarmed men, women and children. See,
>some of the SS had notions they were soldiers and were ashamed of themselves
>for doing this. They complained and Himler listened. Gassing was much more
>impersonal–just close the door, and let the Sonderkommando do the dirty work
>after the Jews were dead.

>Mr. Stele’s level of ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation rivals
>Giwer’s. Perhaps they are one and the same scumbag?

AS YOU KNOW it was the claim of a foolish holohugger (redundant) that
it was done to save bullets.

But your position is so much more reasonable. They stopped shooting
them to save the feelings of the SS so that the SS could have no
feelings about gassing them.

Yet given the three million that were shot (where else did the A-G
deaths go after 3 million fewer were gassed?) that the majority of the
executions were over by that time. The only thing needed would be
fresh troops (volunteers from the Russian front) to shoot the less
than have remaining.

But you know all of this.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:35 PDT 1996
Article: 59741 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark…
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:48:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:47:21 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:19:53 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Matt. I calculated that the velocity of the
>> >river could be 30% slower at the boundaries and still pick up your magical
>> >bone particles.
>>
>> >So tell me, what did you calculate the correct figure to be?
>>
>> You are clearly lying. The velocity at the boundary is zero and it is
>> a matter or the turbulence at the boundary that entrains anything.
>> And you know that. Boudary conditions are always zero as you know but
>> would rather lie about.
>>
>> But then I may be wrong. Post your calculations in any format you
>> wish. I will be most interested in calling the bluff of a holohugger.

>That is *very* interesting. You know why? If the boundary velocity is
>zero then the water *by definition* cannot entrain *any* particles as this
>requires the water to have some movement if the particle has a specific
>gravity higher than 1.

>Now, according to this theory, water cannot *ever* move sediment that is
>not dumped directly into the stream, which, when it settles, cannot ever
>move again.

>Now, if there is turbulance at the boundary the water must be moving.
>I believe the definition of turbulance requires this, no?

>So now, Matt, you have contradicted yourself. Either the water is
>moving and is turbulant or it is not and there is no turbulance.

>No calculations required on this one.

>So tell us all, Giwer. How *do* rivers move sediment?

No calculations.

Post them first.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:35 PDT 1996
Article: 59742 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada’s Internet Policy
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:54:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:52:47 AM CDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 18:32:23 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
>>
>>>> Joel, when you get the chance pick up a copy of _Time Magazine_ April,
>>15,
>>>> 1996.
>>
>>> There is no mention of threats of physical violence. There were
>>threats
>>>of an economic boycott. Do you have a problem with economic boycotts?
>>
>>yes I do. When jewish-money aligns itself against an opponent, they are
>>able to have a chilling effect on free speech.

>Give us a factual example.

http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/thoughtcrimes.html

The ThoughtCrimes Archive

Researched and Compiled by Richard Widmann

Last Update: July 12, 1996

“Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced
with surprising
effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given
a fair hearing.”
George Orwell

1984

07/04/84 – Arsonists Devastate Revisionist Publisher

1985

01/07/85 – Zündel Attacked on way to Trial

1986

04/08/86 – Police Raid Judge’s Home

1987

06/25/87 – Ernst Nolte Dismissed

1988

02/10/88 – Terrorists Attack Historian’s Automobile
02/24/88 – Teacher Suspended for Challenging Holocaust Story

1989

09/16/89 – Revisionist Historian Suffers Savage Beating

1990

03/01/90 – Professor Dismissed for Openness to Revisionism
11/23/90 – Discharge for German Military “Disputers”

1991

03/22/91 – Zündel Arrested in Munich
04/19/91 – Faurisson Convicted of Questioning Gas Chambers
11/15/91 – Leuchter Arrested in London

1992

01/22/92 – Thugs Attack Revisionist Speaker at UCLA Meeting
04/10/92 – France Convicts Two for Distributing Leaflets
05/05/92 – Austrian Revisionist Convicted
05/05/92 – Irving Fined 10,000 Marks
10/02/92 – Computer Network Holocaust Debate Closed Down
10/22/92 – German General Sentenced To Imprisonment

1993

04/22/93 – Museum Protester Attacked and Beaten
10/28/93 – Fred Leuchter Arrested in Germany

1994

02/12/94 – College Professor Faced with Bias Charge
10/13/94 – Free Speech Denied at Berkeley

1995

01/11/95 – House Historian Fired for Even-Handedness
01/30/95 – Japanese Publisher Shut Down
02/15/95 – German Publisher Forced to “Recycle” Book
03/27/95 – German Publisher Raided
04/21/95 – German Court Jails Deckert for Two Years
05/08/95 – Zündel Headquarters Torched
05/09/95 – Executive Fired for Translating Journal Items
07/25/95 – Journalist Charged for Expressing Opinion
08/08/95 – German-American Jailed for Writing Letter
08/29/95 – German Court Jails Yuppie for Denying Holocaust
08/30/95 – Lawyer Attacked Outside Court
11/09/95 – Deckert Arrested for Suspicion of Book Authorship
11/22/95 – Man Convicted for Denying Knowledge of Gas Chambers
11/26/95 – Swiss to Expel Christophersen

1996

02/12/96 – Revisionist’s Home Raided by German Police
02/28/96 – Canadian Freedom of Speech Limitation Found
Constitutional
03/19/96 – European Union Denies Freedom of the Press
03/22/96 – Germany Maintains Ban of Irving
03/27/96 – Free Speech Conference Held Despite Official Attacks
04/04/96 – History Denied as Publisher Buckles to Pressure
04/25/96 – French Investigate Garaudy for Holocaust Revisionism
07/04/93 – Bradley Smith’s Website is Shut Down

Back to Top of Index

The THOUGHTCRIMES ARCHIVE is a series designed as a cooperative effort
to aid and
assist the entire community by reporting acts of censorship, violence,
and other outrages
perpetrated against individuals with unpopular or revisionist views.
If you know of any such
situations or have been a victim yourself, please report the details
to
[email protected] (Richard Widmann).

“Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime IS death.” George
Orwell

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Post Office Box 3267
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Email: [email protected]

[ Index | CODOH | Campus Project | Smith vs. Real Life | Reference
Materials | Hot Links ]

7/24/96

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:36 PDT 1996
Article: 59743 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:17:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:16:30 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 96 18:37:21 GMT, [email protected] (Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says…
>>Mike I’ve already addressed this. It is absurd to claim that
>nazis who>were supposedly trying to exterminate jews would pay
>for a needless>camp/train transportation system when they could
>have simply executed them>nearby. The nazis were fighting a
>2-front war and men and money were at>all-time premium. Or even
>if they had wanted to “gas” jews instead of>easily shooting
>them, which itself would have been inexplicable, they>could
>have set up gas chambers nearby since according to the
>locausters >any old barn will do for a gas-chamber.
>>
>Kurt, absurdity is in the eye of the beholder, it seems. You
>are trying to select a small manageable section of history and
>examining it with a microscope. Then you pronounce what you
>see in the lens as ‘absurd’. Of course it seems absurd, kid.
>You’re looking at it out of context!

>1) What do you think would have happened if the Germans went
>through the big cities of Europe, machine gunning Jewish women
>and children? Don’t you think SOME non-Jews who knew
>those Jews as friends and neighbors would complain — even
>intervene? Don’t you think some of the more sensitive German
>soldiers would desert in shame? Of course it made sense to
>move the Jews away from friends and neighbors.

Right, out of town, the nearest woods. What more than that was
needed?

>2. It didn’t cost anything to transport the Jews, since they
>were charged for their passage (in addition to the
>wholesale looting of everything they owned).

Again, if everything they owned was taken then the profit was
everything minus one bullet or everything minus transporations and
construction, maintenance and operation of gassing facilities.
Obviously the single bullet was more economical.

>3. All Jews were not slated for execution. Workers were needed
>for the war effort. It was far simpler to move them all
>to a central place, sort the workers from the non-workers and
>eliminate the useless eaters.

Then there was no need to ship predetermined useless eaters. All but
able bodied men would have been more economically shot in the nearest
woods.

>>Aren’t you paying attention?
>>
>I wonder ther same about you.

You obviously have a lot to learn about arithmetic when money is
involved.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:37 PDT 1996
Article: 59747 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:40:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:38:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:28:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
>## a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
>## not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
>## Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.

># How do you know?

>I know that because I know Mr. McVay’s correct phone
>number, and also because I know who the number you’re
>posting belongs to.

Then you mean that interNIC needs to correct the phone number they
carry for him. DOD carried no phone number for him, only the company.

>But, again, even if this was Mr. McVay’s correct phone
>number you’re posting, there’s no justification and no
>rational reason for doing that. It only proves that
>you cannot make headway in this “debate”, and therefore
>resort to intimidation. You’re admitting defeat every
>time you post that information.

I posted public information. You appear to have a problem with
posting public information. Not even information dug up out of some
generic telephone registry but official internet information.

And just what do you find intimidating about it? My address and phone
number are publically available on my website as they are from the
secret telphone number that reveals such information. Obviously I do
not think public knowledge of that can be threatening to anyone.

Anyone with a listed phone number in any public place can not even
pretend to be “intimidated” by the information being put in another
public place.

But we are back to the original question, how do you know?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:38 PDT 1996
Article: 59755 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:17:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:16:32 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.usenet.kooks:28540 alt.politics.usa.republican:262375 alt.conspiracy:81198 alt.revisionism:59755 alt.society.conservatism:50476 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:362045 alt.politics.radical-left:113359 alt.politics.perot:53546 alt.politics.democrats.d:112610

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:01:00 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected](Charles) wrote:

>> In <[email protected]> [email protected] (william c
>> anderson) writes:

>> >”The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
>> >annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators
>> >between 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims — six million
>> >were murdered; Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted
>> >for destruction or decimation for racial, ethnic, or national
>> >reasons.
>> >Millions more, including homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Soviet
>> >prisoners of war, and political dissidents also suffered grievous
>> >oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.”
>> >
>> >Not from a footnote, Matt–from the body of the mission statement.
>> >
>> >Bill
>>
>> Frankly, methinks you’ve actually — entirely inadvertently — gone a
>> long way towards buttressing Mr. Giwer’s claim that the 6+ million
>> Gentiles killed in the Nazi Holocaust are treated essentially as a
>> “footnote” by the US-taxpayer-built-and-funded Holocaust Museum in
>> Washington, D.C.
>> I suspect Mr. Giwer is delighted!

>The mission statement is entirely, historically accurate. Most victims of
>the Holocaust WERE Jews. The others killed are not treated and are in no
>way considered a “foot note.” If you would visit the museum, you’d
>understand that.

Go to the website and read more than the mission statement and find
who rare the mention of anyone but jews. Read the lesson plans where
the teaching is to focus on Jews.

“Into the camp of death rode the six million.”

Where is Kipling when we need him?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:39 PDT 1996
Article: 59757 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:14:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:13:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.usenet.kooks:28541 alt.politics.usa.republican:262379 alt.conspiracy:81199 alt.revisionism:59757 alt.society.conservatism:50477 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:362049 alt.politics.radical-left:113362 alt.politics.perot:53547 alt.politics.democrats.d:112613

On 24 Aug 1996 14:49:47 GMT, [email protected](Charles) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (william c
>anderson) writes:

>[snip]
>>This is the essence of Giwer; trotting out the same old lies, time
>>after time, long after they’ve been disproven . . .
>[snip]
>>. . . This is from the Museums mission statement:

>>”The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and
>>annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators
>>between 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims — six million
>>were murdered; Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted
>>for destruction or decimation for racial, ethnic, or national
>>reasons.
>>Millions more, including homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Soviet
>>prisoners of war, and political dissidents also suffered grievous
>>oppression and death under Nazi tyranny.”
>>
>>Not from a footnote, Matt–from the body of the mission statement.
>>
>>Bill

> Frankly, methinks you’ve actually — entirely inadvertently — gone a
>long way towards buttressing Mr. Giwer’s claim that the 6+ million
>Gentiles killed in the Nazi Holocaust are treated essentially as a
>”footnote” by the US-taxpayer-built-and-funded Holocaust Museum in
>Washington, D.C.
> I suspect Mr. Giwer is delighted!

They do it every time but never appear to notice it. How blinding are
those blinders?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:40 PDT 1996
Article: 59760 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a famous story
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:52:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 4:51:04 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 03:10:27 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> When is the famous org owner going to repeat the story of when I
>>showed up in Temple wearing only a Talith?
>>

>Your memory left you a long time ago, Matt.

>I was very careful with my words.

>On one occasion I specifically said that you *WOULD* show up at SHUL
>(synagogue) wearing only a talith.

>The other time I asked you if you had really shown up at the local shul
>wearing only a talith.

>Note – I never said that you had – quite a difference!

Your memory is failing. You deliberately lead people to believe that
I was Jewish as part of your personal plan and I agreed.

You wanted people to believe a lie and you lead them to believe that
lie.

Your history is very well known and it is interesting just where you
have your limits in lying if any place.

We both laughed over those who believed I was Jewish and you suckered
people into that story and it was your idea.

Now you are suckering people into believing other things by the same
methods. You have not changed.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 09:52:40 PDT 1996
Article: 59780 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Some more questions Giwer doesn’t dare to answer.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:25:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 22 11:29:17 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 20 Aug 96 22:45:16 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) lying through his teeth again:

>[I wrote:]
>>>Hey, I have some more questions for you:
>>>1) Where in national socialist writings did you find that the Nazis were not racist?

>[Giwer answered]

>> I have never said that.

>Oh yes, you have. It took me 2 days to dig up the proof, therefore I didn’t respond earlier.
>(Regards to the excellent DejaNews facilities) If I am allowed to remind you of your own words:

It took you two days? Very good. It keep you out off the streets and
out of other trouble.

Let me know when I can keep you busy for four days.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 12:16:29 PDT 1996
Article: 59482 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A troll and his mailbombs
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:06:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 4:05:01 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 16:01:05 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>>What admission, Matt? I’ve never admitted to a mailbomb, because I’ve
>>never sent one.

>Ah, but Mr. Giwer has…..
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) k[email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:48 PDT 1996
Article: 59858 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-feed.iguide.com!delphi.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Reviiewing the Alec Grynspan bidding
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:25:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 4:23:33 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Lets see.

Many years ago he tells me he was involved in wetwork for the Mossad
making it clear he was killing people.

Tbis year I meet him on a.r and after a while find him saying the same
thing in public on alt.revisionism. Thus he has both privately and
publically admitted to killing people on behalf of the Israeli
intelligence agency.

However he appears to have a problem with what he has said he has done
being described as what it is, murder. The Jewish inteligence
organization does not change cold blooded murder to something clean in
a Tom Clancy book.

The man has claimed that he murdered under the direction of a Jewish
intelligence organization and has done so openly and without
qualification.

To be honest, I do not believe a word fo his claims as anyone having
ever done so would never talkk about it. But on the other hand, here
we have a Mossad wannabe who plays at quiet bragging but is a clear
fraud.

And now he feigns it is libel to call him the murderer that he has
identified himself to be.

On the other hand he is no different from any other delusional
holohugger.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:48 PDT 1996
Article: 59859 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!insync!uuneo.neosoft.com!news.sesqui.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: refusal to most megabytes of physical evidence
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:36:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 19 9:40:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Here we have a holohugger refusing to post what he claims are
megabytes of physical evidence.

Why does he refuse to publically post it? Why do people at his org
send mail bombs with only kmcvay’s DOD connection in common?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:49 PDT 1996
Article: 59875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mailbombingmeister
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:17:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 5:15:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 03:44:07 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> The noted mailbombers history.
>>
>>========
>>
>>Grysnspan was the subject of a legislative hearing a few
>>years ago for interstate net abuses. The full text was given to
>>the International Telecommunications Union.
>>

>The interesting thing about that message is that it’s totally bogus.

>It came from that fruitcake Tzipporah Benavraham’s machine and Metzger
>doesn’t even have an account at factory.com.

>Tzioppy seems to have changed providers recently – interesting!

>Of course, the fact that the company involved, Nortel, happens to have
>had banner years lately and that the ITU has no say in anything
>involving the Internet seems to escape Mr Giwer-the-Internet-Expert’s grasp.

>You’re totally around the bend, Matt.

And you are either a murderer for a Jewish intelligence agency as you
told me and admitted in a.r or you are a liar.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59876 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “homicidal” gas chambers
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:41:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 2:39:59 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 1996 13:58:21 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> What separates a homicidal gas chamber from a non-homicidal gas
>>chamber?
>>
>> Too many adjectives there.
>>
>> What separates a gas chamber from a non-gas chamber?
>>
>> Nothing.

> Wrong.

Why is is wrong?

>> It is quite clear that any room with HCN release is deadly, so is a
>>car or a telephone booth for that matter. Luckily Superman never
>>faced it.

> True. But what separates a gas chamber from a non-gas chamber is that
>a gas chamber can keep the gas inside, and can be ventilated.

So can any room. Want to tell me what the difference really is?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:24:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 5:22:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:43:27 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># As the ZB can was put inside and the door closed before it
># was opened by action from the outside it was certainly
># convenient to have a look at the can in the event that
># anything went wrong.

>”To have a look at the can”?

>You know, Matt, every time I say to myself “that’s it, he
>cannot, he simply cannot, post anything more stupid that
>this”, but you always succeed.

>1) The Zyklon wasn’t left in the can, you klutz. It was
> scattered inside the chamber.

Sir, we are talking about the delousing chambers. I gave you
references to their descriptions, posted pictures and diagrams of them
for you. If you failed to look them up, go to DejaNews and find them.
I am not interested in going over this again when you had them the
first time and never addressed the issue.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 15:59:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59878 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:26:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 24 5:24:47 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:08:56 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># How many times are you folks going to spam ads for
># Nizkor? And what is the difference between what you
># folks post and what I post?

>The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
>a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
>not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
>Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.

How do you know?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 18:23:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59896 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:23:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 5:27:56 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:31:36 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:39:13 -0800, [email protected]
>> (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >[snip]
>>
>> >> Do you happen to have the address of the BC Solicitor General or
>> >> whatever his or her proper title might be?
>>
>> >The Attorney General, although if you are looking to file a complaint you
>> >do it with the police.
>>
>> Down this way, conspiracies are brought to the attention fo the
>> prosecutors. But perhaps in this case the RCMP would be more
>> appropriate.
>>
>> Thank you for your help in this matter.

>When the police laugh in your face (not the RCMP who will likely direct
>you to the local police) or just plain ignore you then you can thank me
>for my help.

That is up to them now.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 18:24:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59903 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:10:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:09:05 AM CDT 1996
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On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:34:45 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Richard Widmann wrote:

>> The important element regarding the amount of Zyklon is not how
>> much can be carried up a ladder, (let’s stay serious!)
>> The issue is how much Zyklon must be used for the execution of
>> humans versus a simple delousing.
>>
>> To enable a relatively fast execution, Rudolf has calculated that
>> the quantities of Zyklon B used must have been at least
>> correspondingly comparable to those used in technical delousing.

>In other words, obviously technically feasible. CODOH finally
>makes a worthwhile contribution.

As has been pointed out, a handful and a phone booth are feasable.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 18:24:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:11:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:10:00 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:48:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard Widmann) writes:

># To enable a relatively fast execution, Rudolf has
># calculated that the quantities of Zyklon B used must have
># been at least correspondingly comparable to those used in
># technical delousing.

>That’s 4 Kg to kill 2,000 people in 15-20 minutes. I
>recall Rudolph gives 4.5 Kg. Now convince “kurt stele”
>and Giwer.

I have posted my calculations. What is your problem with them that
you would say this?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 18:24:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Witches, Nazis and the fascination with evil
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:33:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 7:32:26 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Newcomers to discussions about holocaust gassing often think they have
the final arguement in favor of gassing. “If there was no gassing,
why did they admit it?” On the face of it, it appears to be a
profound rhetorical question that ends further questioning.

But clearly there is another rhetorical question to ask. “If
witchcraft is impossible why did people admit to being witches?” The
penalties were in fact worse as the Nazis were only looking toward a
rope while witches were looking towards a bonfire.

Of course strange, in fact barely comprehensible, times centuries ago
appear easy to dismiss based solely upon the distance and the
strangeness. But even today there are people who will confess to
crimes they did not commit. And the more heinous the crime the more
people who will confess.

What originally appeared to be a rhetorical question stopping all
discussion in fact raises the larger question of why people will
confess to things they did not do. And why the more heinous the crime
the more likely it is to happend? We do not have an answer to this
question but, as all courts and all prosecutors and all police know,
an admission of guilt is not in itself proof of anything.

The question regarding gassing and regarding consorting with the devil
are identical questions. They are questions about human nature. They
are not evidence for either gassing or witchcraft.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 18:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 59913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:46:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 7:45:32 PM CDT 1996
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On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 23:48:13 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>OBC) wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >Nobody whines like the Jews and the Holocaust is like the
>> >Energizer Rabbit – it keeps going and going and going and
>>
>> Did you expect the world to forget, Sir?

>Do you have to ask? If the world forgets, then this… uh… “person”
>feels it may have an audience for it’s ignorant rantings. Fortunately for
>us, there are people like Steven Spielberg out there who are capturing for
>all time the first-hand accounts of the Holocaust. So no one will ever
>forget.

My only regret is that the boondoggle’s results are not available now.
They would be a vast storehouse material for revisionists. The way
memory works (like the man who was gassed six times) it would be the
last nail in the gassing coffin and probably a few other coffins as
well.

Despite what holohuggers would like others to believe they know memory
is unreliable. It is difficult to believe that anyone undertaking a
multimillion dollar program would not have been advised of this and be
prepared to deal with it.

Meaning that we will be awaiting the raw materials as long as we
waited for the Dead Sea Scrolls.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:21 PDT 1996
Article: 59923 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Spielberg’s Project
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:22:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 8:21:04 PM CDT 1996
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Although it is the custom in Israeli “courts” to permit witnesses to
get together and discuss their own testimony, most countries know that
this taints the testimony and acts accordingly. The reason of course
is that human memory is not a reliable record and when witnesses get
together they tend to come up with the same story.

Additionally people will tend to remember a specific story which is
why interrogators do not lead with a story. For example they will
ask, “What did you see him do?” rather than, “Do you see him pull out
a gun?”

Yet here comes Spielberg with a project to record the memories of the
last holocaust survivors. After more than 50 years of trading
stories, reading on the subject and all the rest of the common
exposure, it is not possible that human memories can have survived
unchanged.

In fact it is even possible to determine the direction in which the
stories will be changed.

These survivors (whether they were in the camps or not) will claim
they were in the camps. Any statistical correlation (none will be
done of course as that would appear to question the stories, this
leaves something for future revisionists to do) will be far out of
line with the number of survivors from particular camps.

A prominent feature of almost all the stories will be of narrowly
escaping being gassed.

In an attempt to get on the record (a moment of fame) many will come
forward who were (or will say they were) children at the time and then
tell what their long dead mother told them.

In these stories, very few if any will remember having witnessed
steaming and electrocution and other forms as did those witnesses
immediately after the war when the memories were fresh.

In other words, unlike the stories that were told immediately after
the war, these survivors will remember what the codified version of
the story has come to be. And the storytellers about the holocaust
will congratulate themselves on getting it right while not realizing
they are getting their own stories retold to them.

Holohuggers will declare it a justification of everything they have
believed not realizing they, too, are getting the stories retold to
them.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:22 PDT 1996
Article: 59925 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:35:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 8:33:56 PM CDT 1996
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On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:59:44 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Kurt “Dazed and Confused” Stele babbled:

>> >Please describe the Israeli government program to kill all the
>> Palestinian
>> >children.

>> Ah yes. The most important deaths are the death of jews. I’m sorry but I
>> forgot. Palestinian children deaths certainly don’t warrant a holocaust
>> monument, or a _Swindler’s List_. Not important enough. Not like they were
>> being killed because they were Palestinians or anything. Plus, if they let
>> allowed Palestinians to have a monument it would divert money that could
>> go to more Holocaust films.

>Please describe the official Israeli government policy to kill all the
>Palestinian children by rounding them up and executing them.

>Take your time. I’m patient.

As we know there is no evidence of any Nazi policy in that regard
either. The best you folks can come up with are bits and pieces here
and there that purport to prove it.

Here is equally good proof that there is a policy of killing children
and that the Jews control the US.

————————————————————————
Following is an article from the June 13, 1996 edition of The Wanderer
that cries for wide distribution.
————————————————————————
“In Our Hands”
by Joseph Sobran

One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
conspiracy theory.

The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari Shavit,
an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli
killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: “We killed them
out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude
that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our
own…”

In a single phrase — “in our hands” — Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.

Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans can
say publicly only at our own risk. It’s surprising, and refreshing,
to find such candor in an American newspaper (though his essay was
reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).

The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a “reliable
ally” of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of
double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of
American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The
word “ally” implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the
interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted
to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest
otherwise.

You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies, after
all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much
of the American media should be “in our hands,” as Shavit puts it.
Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no
protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of
their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel
(wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no
control.

Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance
of Israeli “defense.” Congress too is “in our hands.”

A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s
power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one
enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to
criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly
that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country.
They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.

But much of the press and electronic media are “in our hands” in a
more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in
the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
“democracy” and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities — mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on
a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.

No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the status
of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet Americans
are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians, on the flimsy
pretext that they are helping an “ally” in America’s own
self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole Muslim world.

All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel than
for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of Israel is
permitted in Israel, as Shavit’s article illustrates. It’s rarely
permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very
effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls
attention to his own government’s — and his own profession’s —
servitude to Israeli interests.

Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of
affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning
back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for
us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.

=========end==============

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59927 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:41:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 8:39:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 11:38:31 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[…]

>>>>I only control this newsgroup at the moment. Get used to it.

>[I wrote]
>>>Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment
>>>and to reply to “RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn’t dare to
>>>answer.”?

>[Mr. Giwer]
>>Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
>>I do control this Newsgroup. If you would first get them to agree
>>that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
>>over.

>Er, excuse me, where in the above lines do you find me denying that you
>”control” this newsgroup? Do you know that there are training programs to
>help you with your dyslexia?

Then explain it to Alec pre-editting that is.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:55:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 8:54:47 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 96 15:54:18, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: revision v. holohugging] [Friday August 23 1996 20:23][*][0]*>

> >> Must a cancelbot be used to demonstrate this?

> MG> Would you really want to add that to the mailbombing abuse
> MG> complaint?

>What mailbombing?

>The only person that attempted a mailbomb is one Matt Giwer.

>Cancelbotting spams, which would leave you with no messages, is
>legitimate.

>If you have a problem, send a message to [email protected]

>++GMAIL 1.3++ We’re laughing at you Matt – you pathetic fool!
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

I prefer netcom, uu.net and uunet.ca for net abuse complaints. As
with the other matter it is out of my hands. It is not your opinion
that is of concern any longer.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59930 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:04:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 9:03:22 PM CDT 1996
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On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:44:25 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 18:32:18 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:
>>
>> >>”The nazis were fighting a 2-front war
>>
>> >This in itself was pretty stupid. I know, you didn’t ask me. 🙂
>>
>> >> Or even if they had wanted to “gas” jews instead of
>> >>easily shooting them,
>>
>> >Herr Wankmeister thinks shooting human beings up close and personal is
>> >an easy thing. Amazing that he would say considering he’s not doing
>> >any of the work.
>>
>> Over 3 million were killed that way. How hard can it be?

>For someone such as yourself, who’s shown a vicious anti-semitism, a
>callous disregard for human life and total insensitivity for humanity in
>general, it might not be too difficult. For humans, however, it would
>be difficult.

>If nothing else, the M1898 Mauser, chambered in 8X57mm has a recoil that
>is very close to that of the .30-06. I.e., it has a not inconsiderable
>kick. Firing a military rifle in either chambering is tiring after the
>first 30 or so rounds. Cumulative effects would be wearing indeed.

>Of course you _have_ read the Jager report, which speaks directly of the
>issue you’re addressing, haven’t you?

>Shall I refresh your memory?

I give a low number. It is actually more like 4.5 million. And you
want to talk about rifle cartridges.

So why not talk about the 9mm Parabellum and the Schmeiser first?

Or why not talk about the 3000 who were assigned to the EG and divide
into 4.5 million and then divide by 365?

Do you ever think these things through before you post?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59936 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:41:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:40:23 PM PDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 96 23:45:12 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
>> You have stated that the ADL made a statement. Either they made that
>> statement or they did not. It would have been very easy, had the statement
>> really
>> been made, for you to provide it. You evasions prove only that you knew of no
>> such statement by the ADL when you annouced that such a statement was
>> made. You have refused to provide even a single reference to that statement. > You have not even come close. The conclusion is inescapable:

>>
>> You are lying again.

>You love that phrase, don’t you. Check out my other post and read what I
>said you kosher half-wit. Why do so many people believe the Jews are plotting
>to take over the world when half of them are fucking illiterate.

Belief is all that is required to make it true. Physical evidence is
no more necessary to make that case than it is for gassing.

>> You made it up and were, for the manyish time, caught making up some
>> lie about the ADL because of your pathological hatred for Jews.
>>
>> Why don’t you admit the obvious . . . .

>It’s not a pathological hatred of Jews, it’s a hatred of slimeballs and
>scumbags who seem to think that claiming they are descended from the tribe
>of Israel gives them carte blanche to ride roughshod over the rest of mankind
>and to smear as bigots anyone – like me – who has the audacity to challenge
>their state sanctioned lies.

Back off, man. Their on a mission from god.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 25 22:29:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59946 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: There were no food problems after WW II
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:26:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 10:25:27 PM CDT 1996
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A little excerpt from Chiechatilo (sp?) statements in his first press
interview on The Justice Files 25 Aug 1996 on Discovery Channel.

He grew up in the Ukraine. His mother told him that towards the end
of the war the famine was so great that the mob caught his brother and
ate him.

But of course the Ukraine was not Germany so there was no hunger in
Germany and the entire C.A.R.E. effort was a sham. One has to wonder
where the Germans were getting all the food while the Ukraine was into
a cannibalist level famine.

Of course, maybe his mother was making it up. But then, if she were
Jewish she could not be making up anything.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:26 PDT 1996
Article: 59991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:51:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Aug 1996 11:38:31 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[…]

>>>>I only control this newsgroup at the moment. Get used to it.

>[I wrote]
>>>Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment
>>>and to reply to “RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn’t dare to
>>>answer.”?

>[Mr. Giwer]
>>Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
>>I do control this Newsgroup. If you would first get them to agree
>>that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
>>over.

>Er, excuse me, where in the above lines do you find me denying that you
>”control” this newsgroup? Do you know that there are training programs to
>help you with your dyslexia?

I almost forgot, the pre-editting verion.

Path:
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From: Alec Grynspan
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:53:36 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22 Aug 96 18:09:00 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
> Abels) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
> >> I only control this newsgroup at the moment. Get used to it.
>
> >Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment and to
> >reply to “RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn’t dare to answer.”?
>
> Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
> I do control this Newsgroup. If you would first get them to agree
> that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
> over.

A misconception. They had never met such an ill-tempered, whiny
spamming
brat before.

You control nothing.

Must a cancelbot be used to demonstrate this?

=====

Now explain it to Alec.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:27 PDT 1996
Article: 59992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: “rich graves”
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:40:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:50538 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27789 alt.revisionism:59992 alt.politics.white-power:40853 soc.culture.usa:91656

On 23 Aug 1996 19:45:53 -0000, [email protected] (Elias Halldor Agustsson)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (dannie hawkins) writes:

>>On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 03:04:46 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (dannie hawkins) wrote:

>>>>Really? So you believe all ancient Norse is translated exactly the same?

>>>Shakespeare spoke Old Norse, dannie?

>>Did Shakespeare use the “graves” quote? Regardless… it came from one of
>>Snorri Sturluson’s eddas… written over 3 hundred years before
>>Shakespeare was born.

>No. Nowhere in Icelandic literature does it say “Cowards die many times
>before their death” (which, if memory serves me right, is uttered by
>Caesar in Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar).

A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero dies but one. It sounds to me
like those are the odds in town.

— Bret Maverick

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60021 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:31:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Aug 96 11:50:35, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org] [Sunday August 25 1996 >08:02][*][0]*>

> >> You are delusional. I admitted no such thing!

> MG> DejaNews, good sir. I specifically asked you if I could talk
> MG> about and you said I would not know the circumstances so it
> MG> would not mattere what I said.

>IOW – you are talking nonsense.

>DejaNews? Where, Matt? What’s the URL?

>Silence.

> MG> You also responded to several other questions on the subject
> MG> in the affirmative, defensive even.

>As I said, delusional. You are truly pathetic. You don’t see reality
>at all, any more. I wonder how much you really ever saw.

> >> You’ve lost it completely and are living in your own fantasy
> >> world!

> MG> It is good to see that you deny ever having been involved in
> MG> wetwork for the Mossad.

> MG> May I cast this denial in concrete?

>You can cast it up your ass for all that I care.

>You’re still around the bend, Matt. Pathetic!

>++GMAIL 1.3++ We’re laughing at you Matt – you pathetic fool!
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

Alec, Alec, I said I did not believe a word of your claim to having
been with the Mossad much less having been involved with welwork.

I agree with you. You lied.

You were never with the Mossad. You never killed anyone. I retract
every word of it as long as you are retracting every claim you have
made in regard to the Mossad and wetwork.

That is fine with me.

I would rather not have to live with knowing a murderer.

So you retract both. Neither ever happened. Good.

Now that that is over, what did you really do for a living in Israel
and who is that really in the picture instead of ben Gurion?

I did not believe it when you said it. Why should I believe it now?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60027 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Bone fragments in the Vistula
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 05:44:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 189
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:38:56 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> >Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Matt. I calculated that the velocity of the
>> >> >river could be 30% slower at the boundaries and still pick up your magical
>> >> >bone particles.
>> >>
>> >> >So tell me, what did you calculate the correct figure to be?
>> >>
>> >> You are clearly lying. The velocity at the boundary is zero and it is
>> >> a matter or the turbulence at the boundary that entrains anything.
>> >> And you know that. Boudary conditions are always zero as you know but
>> >> would rather lie about.
>> >>
>> >> But then I may be wrong. Post your calculations in any format you
>> >> wish. I will be most interested in calling the bluff of a holohugger.
>>
>> >That is *very* interesting. You know why? If the boundary velocity is
>> >zero then the water *by definition* cannot entrain *any* particles as this
>> >requires the water to have some movement if the particle has a specific
>> >gravity higher than 1.
>>
>> >Now, according to this theory, water cannot *ever* move sediment that is
>> >not dumped directly into the stream, which, when it settles, cannot ever
>> >move again.
>>
>> >Now, if there is turbulance at the boundary the water must be moving.
>> >I believe the definition of turbulance requires this, no?
>>
>> >So now, Matt, you have contradicted yourself. Either the water is
>> >moving and is turbulant or it is not and there is no turbulance.
>>
>> >No calculations required on this one.
>>
>> >So tell us all, Giwer. How *do* rivers move sediment?
>>
>> No calculations.
>>
>> Post them first.

>I can’t, Giwer.

That is strange. Alec says you already posted them.

<*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...] [Sunday August 25 1996 03:48][*][0]*>

>> No calculations required on this one.

>> So tell us all, Giwer. How *do* rivers move sediment?

MG> No calculations.

Already posted.

=====

So what is going on here? Did you or can’t you?

My 30% figure is based on the difference between the middle of
>the river flowing at 5km/h (used in my previous calculations) and 3.6 km/h,
>the minimum velocity required to lift 1 cm radius silica particles.

>Unfortunetly, as I am not a theoretical physicist thus I have no idea how to calculate
>the flow at boundaries in chaotic, turbulent systems.

Very good. Here is a hint. No one knows how to calculate it save in
a very gross manner. But you know the fact is that the boundary is a
chaotic system. It is the amount of turbulence that raises material
further into the stream so that it can be picked up and moved.

It does not continue to move but falls into the turbulent layer again
where some fraction is returned into the moving flow of the river.

However, based on experience,
>I know that rivers *do* move particles and sediments.

Particles are moved as above, the turbulence raising material into the
forward flow. A fraction (greater with greater turbulence) is raised
and moved for a while then settles out while some other particle
starts on the trip. Sort of a random game of leapfrog.

Unlike some sciences we
>geologists have to be happy with knowing that something *does* work that way
>without knowing exactly how to predict the conditions required for it to work.
>If we could do that you’d never see anyone killed in major earthquakes, floods
>or landslides.

With regard to the bone fragments and the river under discussion we
have a further consideration in the above movement method of movement.
The size of the particles that can be moved are directly proportional
to the amount of turbulence. When talking about river movement the
usual discussion is about sediment, silt, quite small particles that
form mud.

In the ground bone fragments we are are talking about the 1 cm down to
about 1/2 to maybe 1/4 cm size, depending upon the grinding process.
We are not talking about centuries of a stone being worn down but
rather a time dependent process of grinding by people. In such a
process it simply goes from larger to smaller is modest steps with a
very small fraction of minute fragments from spalling at the breaking
edges.

Putting that together with the above that even muddy rivers that are
slow moving are going to move very little of the fragments.

Considering the quantities that would be dumped in at one time there
would at first be mounds. And what is moved first would be those
towards the top of the mounds as they are in a faster moving part of
the stream. In a few hours to days the mound would be mostly its
final shape, sort of a flat teardrop pointing downstream.

This maximum height of this would be where the turbulence could no
longer lift the fragments into the flow. The smaller the fragment,
the further downstream.

As time goes on and the tons get into the thousands of tons then at
the same silt is being deposited on these fragments and the water
space between them become silt. Most of (and the most quickly) this
silt is deposited on the upstream side. In doing so it smooths out
the surface and reduces the turbulence, slowing the movement of the
fragments.

Thus ultimately the mound creates a large smooth surface with minimal
additional movement. Further the mound become silt filled and covered
protecting it, so to speak.

Thus it was certainly there in 1945 and most likely a large part of it
is still there today. In any event, no one looked for it in 1945.

And we still have the lakes without flow.

>Indeed, in an _ideal_ laminar flow the boundary conditions are zero, however rivers
>do not have ideal laminar flow, nor do they have the smooth surfaces that this
>requires. Any equations you think you know on how fluid flow theoretically works
>will break down applied to real systems in river environments.

>All my calculations on the transport capability of rivers was based not on
>theoretical models but on measured capabilites of real rivers. The lifting
>velocities of particles were taken from experiments where this was observed.
>Calculations are woefully inadequate because to many unknowns enter the picture.
>For example, despite what might be intuitively obvious, it sometimes requires
>greater velocity to lift smaller particles than larger ones of the same
>composition, due to unpredictable cohesion between the smaller particles.

>There. That was my basis for making the statements I did. Now it’s
>your turn. Please indicate how rivers *ever* move anything if they
>behave the way you say they do. You said you know how this works but
>were strangely quiet when I asked you to elaborate. So, please
>enlighten us.

I was silent because you were not willing to lay out your basis until
now. Above, I have given my basis. When you are willing to be
serious, I will be too.

What we would have would be that teardrop getting longer and longer
every years buy by a lesser amount every year. By now its growth
should not be noticable at all. There are tens of thousands of tons
of material.

To review the bidding. It was not looked for in 1945. Some place
there should be a paper trail of the forensics of A-B if there were
any. It should document what was done, why it was done and what was
not done and why it was not done.

If there was an intention to verify the gassing that was reported by
the A-B survivors then certainly there had to be some forensic effort.
They found 35,000 or so left behind after the evacuation. These
people were not in the best of condition. They made what had to be
viewed at the time as wild and outrageous claims.

Obviously the first thing to do is to collect forensic evidence.

What I have done here, despite all of this long and meaningless
digression into river flow is to point out is that there is no a
priori reason to say there was no reason to have looked for bone
fragments. There is every reason to have looked for bone fragments.
And they did not look for them at A-B.

I also say they should still be there today in the river, not to
mention the lakcs. With any luck and the deposition rate many of them
are headed for fossilization.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60028 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:30:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:09:44 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:36:11 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>>>>Ole is now so trapped that he resorts to this old saw. Well, Ole, find
>>>>>me a government document stating a State policy to exterminate the
>>>>>Indians.
>>>>
>>>> We have all been looking for some Nazi government document indicating
>>>>a state policy of extermination for years.
>>>>
>>
>>>This must mean that no Indians were exterminated and also that the
>>>Holocaust didn’t happen. Good show, Mr. Giwer! There is no such thing
>>>as history unless there is a specific incriminating document showing
>>>that there was specific intent on the part of a person, group, or
>>>poltical party. This means that most murderers never murdered anyone!
>>
>>> (There are documents for the extermination policies and I’m writing
>>>an article for Nizkor to deal with this issue. It’ll take about a year
>>>to write and research.)
>>
>> You appear to have great problems reading the thread.
>>
>> Now would you like to post the policy document in either case?
>>

>You say I have problems reading the thread! You have problems reading
>what was just written. Since you have this problem let me remind you
>exactly what I wrote:

>>>Holocaust didn’t happen. Good show, Mr. Giwer! There is no such thing
>>>as history unless there is a specific incriminating document showing
>>>that there was specific intent on the part of a person, group, or
>>>poltical party. This means that most murderers never murdered anyone!

>You failed to respond to this. This is the denier way.

Individuals are not organizations. If you knew anything about
organizing people, in this case thousands of them, you would know the
effort required and the huge paper trail that would be left.

But it would help if you would provide another example of such an
enterprise being conducted in such great secrecy, other than the
Jewish take over of the world that is.

>>> (There are documents for the extermination policies and I’m writing
>>>an article for Nizkor to deal with this issue. It’ll take about a year
>>>to write and research.)

>Read this carefully. Now I’ll write it for 5 year olds.

That that is your common market it is understandable why you are
having problems in this conference.

“There is no
>single document that I’m aware of that lists a plan from a to b. But
>then there really wasn’t one for the New Deal. If you find one that
>describes the New Deal exactly as it came down, let me know.

The DNC Party platform. Did you miss it? And following from that
each of the individual programs which have a huge paper trail in and
of themselves. And documentation of every participant in every
program.

You will need at least 10,000 documents to even pretend that 99% of
them were never created.

>Oh, and since you are such an expert on the Civil War, find me a
>written policy document for Lincoln’s plans when he came into office.
>He said he had a plan. His cabinet said he didn’t.

There was no war when he came to office. Any plans were OBE.

>However we can put statements and policies together.
>You will just have to wait until I’m finished. I do good work and not
>the rushed lame stuff I’ve seen you post on Web sites.

I will be looking forward to it. Using the same methods as you I will
provide the same level of proof as you do of somethings you do not
want to here are true.

>> Or are you willing to admit there was no government policy to
>>eliminate either the Indians or the Jews?
>>

>There was no United States government policy to elimate the American
>Indians.

>There was a policy by the Nazi Goverment to elimate the Jews.

Whatever you write, St. Martin’s Press will not publish it.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60030 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:08:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 11:07:05 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 06:14 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:28:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I know that because I know Mr. McVay’s correct phone
>>>number, and also because I know who the number you’re
>>>posting belongs to.

> Ditto for me.

>> Then you mean that interNIC needs to correct the phone number they
>>carry for him.

> You are missing at least one possbility here. Maybe if you had a
> higher IQ you could figure out the complete set of possbilities.

>>>But, again, even if this was Mr. McVay’s correct phone
>>>number you’re posting, there’s no justification and no
>>>rational reason for doing that. It only proves that
>>>you cannot make headway in this “debate”, and therefore
>>>resort to intimidation. You’re admitting defeat every
>>>time you post that information.

> This is a valid point. Giwer’s harrassment of McVay began simply to
> cover up the fact that Giwer had no on topic reqponses for the
> arguments he was making. Typical schoolyard bully behavior.

It is completely impossible to harrass a person who does not read my
posts here and rejects my mail.

You need to learn some day.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60034 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Those Sensitive Nazis.”
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:09:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 2:08:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:22:45 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[About the Einsatzgruppen]

># I give a low number. It is actually more like 4.5
># million.

>No, it is not.

>The Einsatzgruppen murdered about 1 million Jews in
>Nazi-occupied USSR. Another million were murdered in
>Auschwitz-Birkenau; 700,000 in Treblinka; 600,000
>in Belzec.

Bullshit.

The total number never changed.

The Auschwitz-Birkenau number was reduced from 4 to 1 million.

No other gassing camp number was increased.

Therefore the Einsatzgruppen killed an extra 3 million or there were
no 3 million killed. The six million becomes three million with the
stroke of the assertation.

Get over it.

Thank you for being the first to swallow the bait.

4.5 millon were murdered by the EG.

Get over it.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:33 PDT 1996
Article: 60037 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Hey, Alec!!!!
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:17:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 2:16:09 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

Are you going to mail bomb me for this one?

Are you going to increment it?

Why is it that that I expect nothing in response to this because you
were read the riot act by uu.net adn uunet.ca?

Why is it that gryn.org can no longer send email to anyone on netsom?

Ah well, you are history, Alec.

Sorry about that.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60038 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: multiculturalism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:49:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:47:52 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

If the people who claim to support multiculturalism in the US would be
honest for a moment (nothing ever expected) then they would support
the support of the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope speaks for god, and
a few minor points that come with the illegal immigration they
support.

But their political deal is that they submerge their Catholicism for
political gain and they hope like hell these people get civilized and
drop that nonsense before they gain political power.

If that is not the evolution then the multiculturalists had better
become Roman Catholics real soon now.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:33:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 11:32:40 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:14:13 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:40:59 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>> >> Can you imagine if some prominent German Nazi had said something like
>> >> “The only good Jew is a dead Jew”? This would have been heavily used by
>> >> the anti-revisionists as evidence that the intensions of the Nazis were to
>> >> exterminate all the Jews.
>>
>> >Hm. You mean maybe like:
>>
>> As a preliminary, still no policy document is presented.

>”Your Honor, despite the fact that the prosecution has three hundred
>and seventy-six witnesses who heard the defendant threaten the life
>of the victim, I demand the case be dismissed because they have not
>presented a single piece of evidence to indicate that my client ever
>wrote down his threat. As there was no indication that the murder
>was his official policy, they have no case.”

And because there is not the slightest bit of physical evidence of any
gassing.

You left out that part. That is you deliberately left out the lack of
evidence of anyone murdered. But you know that.

>Yale, I bet you’d love to have UN Boy in court, would you not?

He is the only one who could be interested in such stupidity.

But if you really want to use that sort of evidence, I have proof in
your terms of proof of all sorts of evils planned and committed by
Jews.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60043 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wieder mit dem
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:32:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 10:31:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:43:05 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Consider Ellen Goodman’s commentary, “Let us just hope they will be
>> put to sleep in a humane manner like our fetuses.” (Foetii for the
>> whackos out there.)
>>
>Would Mr. Giwer please provide evidence of the above statement?
>
>For instance, what is the CONTEXT of it? When was it written? Published?
>
>And more important, WHAT does Ellen Goodman have to do with the discussion
>at hand?

To put it back in context…

>Marty Kelly’s information, that the Himmler speech in question is
>transcribed on thick red tape, which, at the time would have run at about
>30 ips, leads me to conclude that the quote in question, *die Ausrottung
>des judischen Voelkes* is incorrect, because the tape was _inverted_ at
>that point. What Himmler actually said was, *sekleov nehcsiduj sed
>gnuttorsua.* The key word here, of course, is *gnuttorsua*, which is
>perhaps a Masai expression used by Lettow Vorbeck’s native conscripts in
>the East Africa campaign of 1914-1918.

>It would mean, literally, *gnu tor sua*, that is, *fool of the gnu
>[it]self*, where *sua* has the same self-referential qualities in Latin as
>in Swahili [cf. Suaheli]. This in turn literally means, *child or
>offspring of a gnu*, which, bearing the generic compass of *gnu* in this
>usage, would mean, *Vieh sohn* in German, or, in Scots Gaelic, *McFee.*
>Any questions? 🙂

None whatsoever. It is now as clear as it was from the beginning.

Of course I would invite someone with vast library resources to find
not only the newspaper account of this speech being given but also the
editorial commentary upon it. That would indicate how it was taken to
mean by the people who heard the speech.

Consider Ellen Goodman’s commentary, “Let us just hope they will be
put to sleep in a humane manner like our fetuses.” (Foetii for the
whackos out there.)

Or Hitler’s comments, “Did I say that? Did I day that? He didn’t
clear that statement with me! … I regret those remarks. I have
been too busy preparing to invade Poland.”

Or Eva Braun’s remarks, “I learned all about trading Zyklon-B futures
>from reading Die Wallenstrasse Zeitung.”

Or Himmler himself, “That statement is no longer operative.”

=====

In this context, why would you assume that I was only claiming the
first one was real?

How foolish are you? Be honest and answer patiently.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60044 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:29:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]m>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]><[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 11:28:34 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:09:46 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:36:14 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>>>On 22 Aug 1996 04:15:03 GMT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Matt
>>>>>Giwer)Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:34:25 GMT writes:
>>>>>:>
>>>>>:>On 18 Aug 1996 03:57:42 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>>>>:>
>>>>>:>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>>>:>
>>>>>:>> [Giwer’s invasion of another’s privacy snipped]
>>
>>
>>>How many times you going to spam this? We can read, Giwer. In fact we
>>>are so smart that we GET IT the first time. I’ll bet this is for the
>>>other bone-heads out there that are a little slow. Yup, that’s it.
>>>Either that or you are so sopped up that you can’t remember posting it
>>>already. Watch out for that CIA/DOD guy, they’ll get you in the end.
>>
>> How many times are you folks going to spam ads for Nizkor?

>It’s sig file goofy. The content of every message I post is different.
>Plus it is a web site and it’s why people are on the computers. Unlike
>you they are not here to harrass people’s private lives.

Excuse me but holohuggers were the first to violate the rule against
involving a person’s private life. I have posted it many times and I
have no interest in posting everything again.

But I will point out that if I harrass every holohuggers service
provider until they have to find another one and make harrassing phone
calls to everyone of their family members I can find then we are
equal.

And not before.

And I have already pointed out that you are all the same.

And I have already pointed out why whichever of you is Marduk, perhaps
you, but it really is McFly by his own posts OR McFly knows who it is
by his own posts, are exemplifications of the best there is among
holohuggers.

The worst are people like AG who have told me they did wetwork for the
Mossad and get all bent out of shape when the euphamisms are dropped
and they are identified as murderers for a Jewish organization.

The above constitutes the the breadth and depth of the holohugger
experience.

There is nothing but contempt that is their due.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:37 PDT 1996
Article: 60045 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:03:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:02:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:49:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard Widmann) writes:

># The importance of these calculations is really in regard to
># the Cyanide concentrations found during the various samples
># and chemical analysis that were conducted.

>I thought we’ve been through this, many times.

>The required exposure time for delousing is very long
>(many hours). Homicidal gassing with the same concentration
>kills within minutes.

Actually we have determined that they are identical given your and my
calculations. Obviosly we both have a fundamental error as the
smallest quantity for the huge gas chambers is 4 kg and the amount
needed for the relatively small delousing chambers is 1 kg as that was
the smallest quantity canned.

So obviously we are both making a fundamental error unless one assumes
the commercial smallest size was massive overkill and that assumption
would be without basis.

>Because of that, the walls of the homicidal gas chambers
>were exposed to the gas for a much shorter time than
>those of the delousing chambers.

Sorry but we have both calculated roughly the same number so the
exposure time would be the same to the same concentration. Therefore
they would be roughly the same.

>Moreover, the delousing chambers are intact, the gas
>chambers destroyed and left in ruins for 50 years
>before Rudolph took his samples; during those 50 years,
>they were exposed to rain, acid rain etc, which
>washed away some of the cyanide compounds.

So how can you tell the delousing chamber in Kream II from the LK in
Krema II? And why did a gas chamber need a delousing chamber?

># A comparison of these to the delousing chambers (in which
># approximately the same amount of Zyklon must have been used)

>Sigh. Same concentration, but far shorter exposure time.

Far longer exposure times as you know.

>We’ve been through this a zillion times. Isn’t enough, enough?

>Lastly, aren’t Rudolph’s findings in the homicidal chambers
>much smaller than what other chemists found?

So let us have a very serious analysis with public exposure and zero
acrimony in the debate.

Remember? CODOH? Open as in no name calling. Refusal to agree with
the opposition means nothing. (and noting that this is only needed
for the holohuggers as they are the only ones who attack those who do
not agree.)

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60056 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: they are on the run
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:50:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 2:49:28 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Strange to me but it appears the holohuggers are on the run.

We finally can kick them out of our newsgroup if we work at it.

We really do not want them here but we can tolertate their intruision
into this newsgroup.

Holohuggers are not wanted but thay are tolarereted.

And holohuggers are free to be here and they will never be mail bombed
or subjected to any other juvenile prank that the holohuggers are
prone to such as AG and Marduk and McFly.

Holohuggers are the onle people who have harrassesd anyone and they
are the only amimals in need of taming.

Not one revsisionist has ever attacked a holohugger and that is fact.

The only people wanting to stop people from posting are halohuggers.

The only people who receive threats are revsionists.

The only violent people are the holohuggers.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60062 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:02:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 1:01:21 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 96 23:53:12 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Chuck Ferree” writes:

>> Chuck Ferree writes:
>>
>>
>> some of them turkey’s think he should get the Congressional Medal of
>> Honor.
>>
>> I think he should serve 20 years in Germany’s slammer, and ten more in
>> Turkey’s. They got shitty prisons, man.
>> Chuck

>That proves what a fucking arsehole you are Chuck. You went to war for
>”freedom”. Lauck was gaoled for calling Jews rats and for questioning the
>Holocaust. I don’t recall any Jew being gaoled for four years in Nazi Germany
>for calling Hitler a rat. Seems like the previous regime was more liberal
>than the current one.

>Wanna know what you fought for, Chuck? You fought for nothing. Wanna know what
>your comrades died for? They died for nothing.

Actually Chuckie spent his time in hell for something real. It was so
the US could establish itself as a world power without having to
appear the aggressor. But that started in WW I and even before.

Teddy Roosvelt’s Great White Fleet was the original intention of
making the US a world power, TR’s big stick. But it failed.

As late as WW I the Zimmerman Note was taken seriously. It was a
possibility at the time rather than a national laugh fest as today.
It was possible.

But let us get back to specifics. Chuckie says he was a fighter
pilot. He also claims to have liberated a camp.

Camps were undefended.

What did Chuckie do really?

He attacked the undefended camp.

He murdered people without concern for who was being murdered.

If the above is not true then he did not liberate any camp.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:39 PDT 1996
Article: 60063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Feigned ignorance
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 22:19:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:18:05 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Why is it that when it comes to gassing personal statements and
testimony are enough but when it comes to “jews control the media”
physical evidence is required?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:40 PDT 1996
Article: 60067 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a famous story
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:17:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 1:16:11 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 01:49:43 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 24 Aug 1996 03:10:27 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> When is the famous org owner going to repeat the story of when I
>>>>showed up in Temple wearing only a Talith?
>>>>
>>
>>>Your memory left you a long time ago, Matt.
>>
>>>I was very careful with my words.
>>
>>>On one occasion I specifically said that you *WOULD* show up at SHUL
>>>(synagogue) wearing only a talith.
>>
>>>The other time I asked you if you had really shown up at the local shul
>>>wearing only a talith.
>>
>>>Note – I never said that you had – quite a difference!
>>
>> Your memory is failing. You deliberately lead people to believe that
>>I was Jewish as part of your personal plan and I agreed.

>Whether people add their own words to the statement is their problem.
>It’s simply verbal prestidigitation – as I explained to you at the time.

>>
>> You wanted people to believe a lie and you lead them to believe that
>>lie.

>No! I wanted the people to believe what they wanted to believe. I didn’t
>say it and, if asked, explicitly denied it.

>I always told anybody who challenged me to READ WHAT I WROTE and not
>WHAT THEY THOUGHT I WROTE.

As that is the game you are playing here what is the point you are
trying to make?

>I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY, Matt. Everybody, except for Lester
>Garrett and a few rather astute folks, either interpreted it as you
>being Jewish *OR* they challenged *YOU*. If they challenged me, I always
>told them the right answer by telling them to ask you what your son’s
>name was. They caught on *FAST*!

You chose your words very carefully to deceive people as to what you
were saying as you are going now. So what is your poing in this post?

You admit you intended to deceive and you admit you are intending to
deceive now.

Your credibility is about zero at this point.

Want to go for negative?

>If they challenged *YOU*, you added to the story. *YOU* did the lying.

>You were always easy to manipulate, Matt. The big problem was that you
>are such a BUMBLER that you fouled things up like a loose cannon!

>FWIW – when I mentioned your name, Matthias, as being derived from
>Mattathias, the priest and father of Judah Maccabee, it was absolutely
>correct. The insertion of “then he must be Jewish” was on the part of
>folks who never bothered to read more than superficially.

If you did it was ancient history to me as I delivered that Schule
lesson to the children of Jack Zimmerman years before I met you.

>When people asked me if you were really Jewish, I told them to read what
>I wrote. If they saw the wording and thought it thru, they laughed. If
>they were still uncertain or wanted to assure no misinterpretations, I
>would tell them your son’s name – Matthias.

>Jews would never name their sons after themselves. A person is name
>after a deceased relative – as a sign of remembrance.

Yes, you deliberately deceived people for your own purposes, just as
you murdered for a Jewish organization.

Why am I not surprised?

>> Your history is very well known and it is interesting just where you
>>have your limits in lying if any place.

>Yes – I refused to bogus up any data about Al Gentile, even though I
>could have, because I always tell the truth. I let others do the lying –
>even if only to themselves.

Give it up. You are an admittted murderer. Wetwork is murder, like
it or not.

>> We both laughed over those who believed I was Jewish and you suckered
>>people into that story and it was your idea.
>>

>Again – Read what I wrote. I never said that you were Jewish. I never
>said that you had done that – only that you were the type. The rest was
>their own insertions.

>The dishonest one is you, Matt.

>I pointed out the word play at the time to you.

>Your memory is *VERY* selective, Matt.

My memory has not forgotten that you claimed to have murdered for a
Jewish organization.

How could I have forgotten that?

From the way you are backing off of your claim it appears you have
spoken when you should not have spoken. Sorry about that but you
never made a point that it should be secret.

Although I do not believe a word of what you said if in fact it is
true sorry, identifying you is only repeating your own words to me
and in public.

You should learn to keep your mouth shut.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:41 PDT 1996
Article: 60068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:25:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 25 Aug 1996 21:36:32 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:

>
>> An interesting aspect about it is that since there’s two definitions
>> for ausrottung, the revisionist are just avoiding real issues when
>> they use the term ‘wipe out’ or eradicate because a very, very accurate
>> definition would say that it means only ‘extermination’ for the livings.
>> Then, despite some dictionnaries do not gives this specification, the revisionist
>> who claim that Himmler used ausrottung in a semi-figurative way in connection
>> to the expulsion of the Jews are supposed to lie.

> Times have passed you by. The question Giwer raised is not a debate
>over the use of the word. He has stated that the tape of the speech is a fabrication
>by the CIA/DoD.

> I suggest that you either tell Giwer he is wrong or join him in the proposed
>experiment to test his theory.

You are at best s fake attorney. How would you know?

My name, address and phone number are public information as I have
them all on line.

You cowards, you lying bastard malicoious holohuggers will only attack
as cowards like Marduk.

You are all cowards like Marduk.

You do not have the balls, the cojones, the currage of personal
conviction to post under your own name.

You are all Marduks. You are all cowards.

You are all Marduks. You are all wothless shit huggin holohuggers.

You are all worthless. You are all Marduk.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:42 PDT 1996
Article: 60069 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Frank
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:30:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 390
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Aug 1996 23:45:20 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] (Kurt Stele), accused of inventing history, wrote:

>>>you obviously are lacking on this occasion with relevant
>>>knowledge about the warcrime trials

>>Do educate us, Mr. Stele. Cite volume and page number while
>>you’re at it, so we can look them up.

>>While you’re at it, perhaps you can take a few moments to deal
>>with a trivial matter you overlooked?

>>How many newspaper publishers are there in North America?
>>How many are privately held?
>>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>>How many are traded on the exchange?
>>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>>How many magazine publishers are there in North America?
>>How many are privately held?
>>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>>How many are traded on the exchange?
>>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>>How many cable broadcasters are there in North America?
>>How many are privately held?
>>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>>How many are traded on the exchange?
>>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>>How many radio broadcasters are there in North America?
>>How many are privately held?
>>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>>How many are traded on the exchange?
>>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>>How many television broadcasters are there in North America?
>>How many are privately held?
>>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>>How many are traded on the exchange?
>>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>>I know, I know, it’s a tough set of data to deal with, but
>>hey, you _are_ the expert here – at least I assume you have
>>expertise, since you share your beliefs with us, and those
>>beliefs are obviously based upon solid and scrupulous
>>research, right?

>>I’ll give you a hint, Bucky…. the United States and Canadian
>>governments have the answers to some of these questions – finding
>>the rest, for an obvious scholar like yourself, well, hey,
>>that should be easy.

>>I know you’re busy… life’s like that these days, eh? So I
>>will remind you from time to time – your own virtual memory,
>>you know?

>>–
>>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>>———————–| Remember John Hron
>> |————————————–
>> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

>1) WALT DISNEY

>a- The largest media conglomerate in the world today

>b- headed by Michael Eisner (jewish)

>c- the Walt Disney Picture group is headed by Joe Roth (jewish) and
>includes Touchstone Pictures and Caravan Pictures

>d- Disney also owns Miramax pictures, which is headed by the Weinstein
>brothers (jewish)

>e- Disney owns Capital Cities/ABC, whose subsidiary ESPN, is headed by
>president and CEO Steven Bornstein (jewish).

>2) TIME WARNER

>a- the -second- largest media conglomerate in the world today, behind Walt
>Disney

>b- headed by CEO Michael Levin (jewish)

>c- Time Warner’s is the largest in the magazine publisher in the country
>and includes Time, Sports Illustrated, People, and Fortune (headed by
>Norman Pearlstine — jewish)

>d- Time Warner’s subsidiary HBO is the country’s largest pay-TV cable
>network

>e- Time Warner is also the world’s largest record company.

>3) VIACOM

>a) The third largest media conglomerate

>b) Headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein — jewish). Redstone
>-actually- owns 76% of Viacom’s shares ($3 billion).

>c) Viacom produces films through Paramount pictures which is headed by
>Sherry Lansing (jewish)

>d) Produces and distributes TV programs for the three largest networks
>and ows 12 television stations and 12 radio stations.

>e) Viacom’s publishing division Prentic Hall Simon & Schuster, and Pocket
>Books, and distributes videos through over 4,000 Blockbuster Video stores.

>f) Viacom is the world’s largest provider of cable programming, most
>notably through Showtime, MTV, and Nickelodeon.

>NOTE: The leadership of the top 3 media conglomerates Disney, Time
>Warner, and Viacom is jewish.

>4) Most of the television and movie production companies that are not
>owned by the largest corporations are also controlled by jews. New World
>Entertainment which is considered the premiere independent TV program
>producer in the U.S. is owned by Ronald Perelman (jewish) who also owns
>Revlon cosmetics.

>5) The chairman of New World is the former head of entertainment
>programming at NBC, Brandon Tartikoff (jewish)

>6) The best known of the smaller media companies is DreamWorks SKG which
>formed in 1994 by recording industry mogul David Geffen (jewish), former
>Disney Pictures chairman Jeffrey Katzenbgerg (jewish), and film director
>Steven Spielberg (jewish). With the cash and connections these three
>possess it is likely that DreamWorld may soon be in the same league as the
>big three media conglomerates.

>7) Two other large production companies, MCA and Universal Pictures, are
>both owned by Seagram Company, Ltd., the liquor giant, whose president and
>CEO is Edgar Bronfman. (jewish) Edgar Bronfman is also president of the
>World Jewish Congress.

>8) Films produced by the just the five largest motion picture companies
>mentioned above — Disney, Warner Brothers, Sony, Paramount (Viacom) and
>Universal (Seagram) — accounted for 74 per cent of the total box-office
>receipts for 1995.

>9) The number five biggest media company is the Japanese Sony
>Corporation, whose U.S. subsidiary, Sony Corporation of America, is run by
>Michael Schulhof, a jew. Alan J. Levin, another jew heads the Sony
>Pictures division.

>II) Newspapers

>Jews own the nation’s 3 most prestigious and influential newspapers: the
>New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These 3
>papers set the trends and guidelines for nearly all others. They
>originate the news; the others merely copy it.

>1) The New York Times

>a- headed by CEO Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, Jr. (jewish)

>b- Executive editor is Max Frankel (jewish)

>c- Managing editor is Joseph Lelyveld (jewish)

>d- The Sulzberger familly also owns throught the New York Times Co. 33
>other newspapers including the Boston Globe, 12 magazines including
>McCall’s and Family Circle with circulations of more than 5 million each.
>7 radio and TV broadcasting companies.

>e- The New York Times company transmits news stories, features, and
>photographs by wire to 506 other newspapers, news agencies, and magazines.

>2) The Washington Post

>a- Headed by Katherine Meyer Graham (jewish). She is principal
>stockholder and chairman of the board of the Washington Post Co.

>b- Her son Donald is The Washington Post’s publisher (jewish).

>c- The Washington Post Co, has a number of other media holdings in
>newspapers, television, and magazines, most notably the nation’s
>number-two weekly newsmagazine, Newsweek.

>d- In a joint venture with the New York Times the Post publishes the
>International Herald Tribune, the most widely distributed English language
>daily in the world

>3) The Wall Street Journal

>a- Owned by the Dow Jones Company, whose chairman and CEO of Dow Jones is
>Peter R. Kahn (jewish)

>b- The nation’s largest circulation newspaper — 1.8 million copies each
>weekday.

>c- The Dow Jones company also publishes 24 other daily newspapers and the
>weekly financial tabloid Barron’s, among others.

>4) Other New York papers

>a. In January of 1993 the New York Daily News was bought from the estate
>of the late jewish media mogul Robert Maxwell (born Ludvik Hoch — jewish)
>by the real-estate developer Mortimer Zuckerman (jewish). The Village
>Voice is owned by Leonard Stern (jewish) the billionaire owner of the
>Hartz Mountain pet supply.

>III) A Note on the Purported “free competition” of the print Media

>After TV news, daily newspapers are the most influential information
>medium in America today. Sixty million of them are sold each day. They
>are divided into some 1500 publications.

>Does this large number of publications indicate there exists substantial
>independence and competition within the media industry? Hardly.

>Out of the 1500 only 25% are independently owned, and out of that number
>over 100 have circulation over 100,000. Only a handful are large enough
>to maintain independent reporting staffs outside their own communities;
>the rest must depend on these few for all of their national and
>international news.

>In only 50 cities are there more than -one- daily newspaper, and
>competition is frequently nominal even among them, as between morning and
>afternoon editions under the same ownership. For example, several cities
>including Birmingham, AL., Springfield, Mass., and Syracuse, NY. have
>morning and afternoon editions that are both owned by Advance
>Publications, a holding company of the Newhouse brothers (jewish).

>IV. The former top three TV networks ABC, NBC, and CBS and their current
>status of ownership

>The big three in television network broadcasting used to be ABC, CBS, and
>NBC. With the consolidation of the media empires, these three are no
>longer independent entities. While they -were- independent, however, each
>was controlled by a jew since its inception:

>1) ABC: by Leonard Goldenson (jewish)

>a– executive producers of ABC news programs are all jewish: Victor S.
>Neufeld (20/20), Bob Reichbloom (Good Morning America), and Rick Kaplan
>(World News Tonight)

>2) CBS: first by Willliam Paley (jewish) and then by Laurence Tisch
>(jewish)

>a– recently purchased by Westinghouse Electric Corporation. Nevertheless
>the man appointed by Laurence Tisch, Eric Ober (jewish) remains president
>of CBS News.

>3) NBC: first by David Sarnoff and then by his son Robert Sarnoff (both
>jewish)

>a– NBC is now owned by General Electric; however, the NBC news president
>is Andrew Lack (a jew) as are executive producers Jeff Zucker (Today),
>Jeff Gralnick (NBC Nightly News), and Neal Shapiro (Dateline).

>Also, for several decades these networks have been staffed from top to
>bottom with jews.

>V. Other: e.g., the top 3 newsmagazines

>1) Time magazine

>a) weekly circulation of 4.1 million.

>b) as mentioned before, Time magazine is part of the media conglomerate
>Time Warner which is headed by Gerald Levin (jewish)

>2) Newsweek

>a) weekly circulation of 3.2 million.

>b) owned by Katherine Meyer Graham (jewish)

>3) U.S. News and World Report

>a) weekly circulation of 2.3 million

>b) owned by Mortimer Zuckerman (jewish), who is also editor-in-chief of
>the magazine

>c) Zuckerman also owns the Atlantic Monthly magazine and as mentioned
>before, New York’s tabloid newspaper the Daily News which is the 6th
>largest paper in the country.

>4) the top publisher of children’s books is Western Publishing, with more
>than 50% of the market. Its chairman and CEO is Richard Snyder (jewish)
>who just replaced Richard Bernstein (jewish)

>5) Note of the Newhouse media empire: founded by the late Samuel
>Newhouse, a jewish immigrant from Russia. Now run by his two son Samuel
>and Donald Newhouse. Newhouse owns 26 daily newspaper which include the
>top newspapers of Cleveland, Newark, and New Orleans. Newhouse
>Broadcasting consists of 12 television broadcasting stations and 87
>cable-TV systems, including some of the largest cable networks; the Sunday
>supplement _Parade_, with a circulation of more than 22 million copies per
>week; some two dozen major magazines, including the New Yorker, Vogue,
>Mademoiselle, Glamour, Vanity Fair, Bride’s, GQ, Self, House & Garden, and
>all the other magazines of the wholly owned Conde Nast group.

>VI. Gentile media ownership and control

>Ted Turner: amassed a fortune in advertising and built a large and
>successful cable-TV news network. Turner made a bid to takeover CBS. To
>block the bid CBS invited billionaire theater, hotel, insurance, and
>cigarette magnate Laurence Tisch (jewish) to launch a “friendly” takeover
>of the company, and from 1986 till 1995 Tisch was the chairman and CEO of
>CBS, removing any threat of non-jewish influence there. Subsequent effort
>by Turner to acquire a major network have been obstructed by Levin’s Time
>Warner, which owns nearly 20 percent of CBS stock and has veto power over
>major deals. Subsequently, jewish newsman Daniel Schorr, who had worked
>for Turner, publicly charged that his former boss held a personal dislike
>for jews.

>Turner employs a number of jews in key executive and managment positions
>at CNN. Turner has never take public positions contrary to jewish
>interests. Despite being an innovator and garnering headlines, Turner has
>never commanded the wealth and power to be a true media master.
>Furthermore, he has discussed a deal with Time Warner to merge, which
>would make Time Warner the number one media conglomerate, and Levin would
>become Ted Turner’s boss. Turner may have decided if you can’t beat ’em,
>join ’em.

>Rupert Murdoch: owns the fourth largest media company, News Corporation,
>which owns Fox Television Network and 20th Century Fox Films, both of
>which are headed by Peter Chermin (jewish). Murdoch has never take public
>positions contrary to jewish interests.

>Even those newspapers still until under Gentile ownership and management
>are so thoroughly dependent upon jewish advertising revenue that their
>editorial and news reporting policies are largely contrained by jewish
>likes and dislikes. It holds true in the newspaper business as elsewhere
>that he who pays the piper calls the tune.

>VII. CONCLUSION: the control of the opinion-molding media is nearly
>monolithic. All of the controlled media — television, radio, newspaper,
>magazines, books, motion pictures — speak with a single voice, each
>reinforcing each other. Despite the appearance of variety, there is no
>real dissent, no alternative source of facts or ideas accessible to the
>great mass of people which might allow them to form opinions at odds with
>those of the media masters. They are presented with a single view of the
>world — a world in which -every- voice proclaims the equality of the
>races, the inerrant nature of the jewish “holocaust” tale, the immorality
>of attempting to halt the hordes of third world immigrants pouring into
>America, and the desirability of genocidal race-mixing. And we have just
>seen that the media masters are to a large extent jewish.

>The jews dominate the media ownership and control. Yet how is it that
>virtually -noone- discusses this incredible and significant fact. The
>media for some reason never reports mentions this fact. The fact of media
>ownership and control is highly significant fact because those who control
>the media wield incredible power to mold the public opinions.

>Would it be too -extreme- to say that the media has effectively
>-concealed- this fact?

>Do the media have the power to further orthodoxy to the Holocaust tale?
>Yes. Are the media masters using their power to further orthodoxy to the
>Holocaust tale? Yes. If revisionism -is- true and the holocaust is
>largely false, can this truth ever be given a hearing, much less a -fair-
>hearing with the current status of media ownership? No. Is it any wonder
>why the public does not know of the revisionist position and of the body
>of facts in its favor? No. Is it wonder why the public does not know of
>the evidentiary deficiencies of the Holocaust tale? No. Considering the
>fact that the media was heavily jewish at the time of WWII as well, along
>with the torture, coercion, and obvious one-sidednessness of the WWII
>”warcrime trials,” as well as the benefit the jews received and receive
>from the Holocaust tale, is it plausible that an anti-German hoax that
>serves jewish interest could have been perpetrated and given wide
>publicity and acceptance? Yes.

>Do the same jewish power which conceals from the public the fact of its
>overwhelming media dominance also have the power to conceal the truth
>about the Holocaust tale as well?

>Yes.

>Kurt Stele

case closed

By greatere evidende than for gassing it i proven.

Physical evidence is not required.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 07:22:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60071 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:39:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 25 Aug 1996 15:29:38 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 24 Aug 1996 13:53:01 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Um… apparently, you don’t read the papers. Jewish groups were
>: >among the first and loudest to denounce the atrocities in Bosnia and
>: >Rwanda.
>:
>: You and Pat Buchanan. Wben it referred to war in the middle east and
>: it was only Israel and the Amen Corner it was antisemitc to say so.

>Um… you’ve lost me here, Matt. I didn’t say Jews were the only
>ones who denounced the atrocities, nor did I say–as Buchanan did–
>that the Jewish lobby was trying to manuver us into a war nobody
>else wanted. READ, Matt. It’s not that hard.

And at the time Buchanan said it, it was true. Or were you out of the
country in 1990?

But that makes him anti-semitic today, just like people who say Jews
were the first to call for military intervention in Rwanda and Bosnia
are anti-semitic.

Anyone telling this kind of truth is in the same category.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 09:06:02 PDT 1996
Article: 40893 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.media,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Proof of Jewish Media Control…does not exist
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:03:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 206
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.media:10717 alt.politics.white-power:40893

On 24 Aug 1996 22:22:32 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>who cares about shareholders and nonesense, Ken, the jews run the media

>(“Because! I! Say! So!” approach to “scholastic bigotry 1A”)

>Thank you for conceding your failure to back up your assertion
>so quickly. It usually takes years for Jew-bashers to admit
>they’re full of crap.

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/jewish-media-control.html

>Now that you admit you have been spouting off at the mouth
>without the slightest shred of proof, perhaps we can deal with
>some of the other questions you’ve been sidestepping, eh?

>You don’t have to worry about these any more, you’ve admitted
>you can’t deal with them:

>How many newspaper publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many magazine publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many cable broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many radio broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many television broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>I know, I know, it’s a tough set of data to deal with, but
>hey, you _are_ the expert here – at least I assume you have
>expertise, since you share your beliefs with us, and those
>beliefs are obviously based upon solid and scrupulous
>research, right?

>I’ll give you a hint, Bucky…. the United States and Canadian
>governments have the answers to some of these questions – finding
>the rest, for an obvious scholar like yourself, well, hey,
>that should be easy.

>I know you’re busy… life’s like that these days, eh? So I
>will remind you from time to time – your own virtual memory,
>you know?

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: j*ws admit control over USA
From: [email protected] (M Huber)
Date: 16 Jun 1996 17:48:08 GMT

alt.conspiracy
[1] “…(entire USA) in hands of Israel..”-Ari Shawit
[email protected]
Israeli columnist Ari Shavit claims “…the White House, the
Senate and much of the American media is in our (Israel’s) hands….”
————————————————————————
Following is an article from the June 13, 1996 edition of The Wanderer
that cries for wide distribution.
————————————————————————
“In Our Hands”
by Joseph Sobran

One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
conspiracy theory.

The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari Shavit,
an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli
killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: “We killed them
out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude
that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our
own…”

In a single phrase — “in our hands” — Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.

Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans can
say publicly only at our own risk. It’s surprising, and refreshing,
to find such candor in an American newspaper (though his essay was
reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).

The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a “reliable
ally” of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of
double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of
American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The
word “ally” implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the
interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted
to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest
otherwise.

You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies, after
all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much
of the American media should be “in our hands,” as Shavit puts it.
Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no
protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of
their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel
(wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no
control.

Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance
of Israeli “defense.” Congress too is “in our hands.”

A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s
power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one
enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to
criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly
that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country.
They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.

But much of the press and electronic media are “in our hands” in a
more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in
the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
“democracy” and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities — mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on
a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.

No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the status
of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet Americans
are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians, on the flimsy
pretext that they are helping an “ally” in America’s own
self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole Muslim world.

All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel than
for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of Israel is
permitted in Israel, as Shavit’s article illustrates. It’s rarely
permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very
effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls
attention to his own government’s — and his own profession’s —
servitude to Israeli interests.

Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of
affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning
back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for
us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.

=========end==============
*****{{{{{{{{{*****************}}}}}}}}}*****
Un-Official News and Opinion from
Linda Muller Web Author [email protected]
Member Northern Alabama Kitchen Militia
Use the Ballot Box – Not the Cartridge Box!
”””””””””””””””””””””””
Pat Buchanan Internet Campaign Headquarters
http://www.buchanan.org
”””””””””””””””””””””””
US Taxpayers Party Internet Headquarters
http://www.ustaxpayers.org
”””””””””””””””””””””””
GO PAT….GO BRIGADES….GO USTP!!!!!!!!
*****{{{{{{{{{*****************}}}}}}}}}*****
For a Cutting Edge, Hard-Right Political WEB PAGE:
http://www.best.com/~jdulaney/politics.html
http://www.johnbirch.com/
http://www.tncnet.com/~rsears/jbs/resource.html

“All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it

is
violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
— Arthur Schopenhauer

“A thousand years hence, perhaps in less, America may be what Europe
is
now…. the noblest work of human wisdom, the grand scene of human
glory,

the fair cause of freedom that rose and fell.”
— Thomas Paine

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 09:11:24 PDT 1996
Article: 81384 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Stele: “I still can’t produce the data.”
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 01:39:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 8:38:30 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 10:47:29 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:
>>pat pat pat, on the head for a good goy

>How many newspaper publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many magazine publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many cable broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many radio broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many television broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>I know, I know, it’s a tough set of data to deal with, but
>hey, you _are_ the expert here – at least I assume you have
>expertise, since you share your beliefs with us, and those
>beliefs are obviously based upon solid and scrupulous
>research, right?

>I’ll give you a hint, Bucky…. the United States and Canadian
>governments have the answers to some of these questions – finding
>the rest, for an obvious scholar like yourself, well, hey,
>that should be easy.

>I know you’re busy… life’s like that these days, eh? So I
>will remind you from time to time – your own virtual memory,
>you know?

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

From noted antisemite Ari Shavik as published in that antisemitic rag,
Haaretz. As with gassing, an occasional statement here and there is
prove.

————————————————————————
Following is an article from the June 13, 1996 edition of The Wanderer
that cries for wide distribution.
————————————————————————
“In Our Hands”
by Joseph Sobran

One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
conspiracy theory.

The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari Shavit,
an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli
killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: “We killed them
out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude
that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our
own…”

In a single phrase — “in our hands” — Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.

Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans can
say publicly only at our own risk. It’s surprising, and refreshing,
to find such candor in an American newspaper (though his essay was
reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).

The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a “reliable
ally” of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of
double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of
American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The
word “ally” implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the
interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted
to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest
otherwise.

You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies, after
all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much
of the American media should be “in our hands,” as Shavit puts it.
Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no
protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of
their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel
(wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no
control.

Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance
of Israeli “defense.” Congress too is “in our hands.”

A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s
power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one
enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to
criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly
that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country.
They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.

But much of the press and electronic media are “in our hands” in a
more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in
the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
“democracy” and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities — mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on
a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.

No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the status
of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet Americans
are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians, on the flimsy
pretext that they are helping an “ally” in America’s own
self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole Muslim world.

All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel than
for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of Israel is
permitted in Israel, as Shavit’s article illustrates. It’s rarely
permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very
effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls
attention to his own government’s — and his own profession’s —
servitude to Israeli interests.

Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of
affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning
back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for
us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.

=========end==============

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 11:05:47 PDT 1996
Article: 60094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Krieberg, the boy nazi, Repeats His Nonsense
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:14:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <1Ka7oOev1SmM0[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 9:13:17 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 21:12:55 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>> > Which is a clear violation of their rights.

>> Which rights are you talking about? If they have some legal rights these
>> will be abolished immediately.

> Just like your heros did with the Jews, nazi boy.

Legal rights are always up to the whim of government. The only
protection citizens have against such things is being armed. But you
know that.

>> Here is the program. Please point out exactly where the use of vigilantes
>> are mentioned:
>
>> 3. A special corps made up of volunteers from the police and the
>> military will be created for the purpose of fighting unrest or the
>> like in connection with carrying out the plan.

> i.e vigilantes. Thank you for playing.

To the babytalking selfproclaimed attorney, that makes the US Special
Forces members vigilantes. But then no one ever said you were very
bright but maybe that does make you an attorney.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 15:00:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60117 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 02:39:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 9:38:13 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Aug 96 20:07:24, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Friday August 23 1996 05:01][*][0]*>

> MG> At least you agree there is a conspiracy to violated copyright
> MG> but only point out that it may or may not be criminal in the
> MG> mind of one investigator.

>You’ve gone totally delusional.

>There is no conspiracy to violate your copyright, because your
>copyright wasn’t violated.

>Conspiracy only applies in the case of criminal actions. There were
>none.

>I have not said otherwise.

>How many repetitions of this message will it take to get you to
>realize that?

>++GMAIL 1.3++ Have you had a CAT scan lately? You may need it!!
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

The opinion of no participant is of interest any longer. It is being
presented to the Canadian authorities for their determination. Lets
just drop it and leave it to those who can make a determination.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 15:00:44 PDT 1996
Article: 60143 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.istar.ca!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 07:14:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 2:13:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:24:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Absolutely impossible. There is no possible build up of
># pressure that does not shut down the engine.

>There is no reason to take seriously any comment you
>make on any technical matter, because you have proved
>yourself incapable of dealing with technical matters.

Ridicule and threats are all tht holohuggers have.

We have been there, done that, found out you are CS type meaning you
know nothing of science and are not qualified to judge.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 15:00:48 PDT 1996
Article: 60153 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: even more types of specia
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:37:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:35:53 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 14:45:45 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> Except that HCN was never in the CW arsenal of any country in the
>> world and still in not.
>>
>> Beyond that, nice try.

>Funny, then, that it has its own STANAG code (AC). Funny it’s listed
>in all standard texts on chemical weapons. Just because it hasn’t
>been stockpiled doesn’t mean they haven’t considered using it.

> http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm

> Hydrogen cyanide is usually included among the CW agents causing
> general poisoning. There is no confirmed information on this substance
> being used in chemical warfare. However, it has been reported that
> hydrogen cyanide was used by Iraq in the war against Iran and against
> the Kurds in northern Iraq during the 1980’s. Hydrogen cyanide has
> high toxicity and in sufficient concentrations it rapidly leads to
> death. During the Second World War, a form of hydrogen cyanide
> (Zyklon B) was used in the Nazi gas chambers.

That is what I said. No evidence that is was ever in any nation’s
arsenal.

Would you like to try again with better than an unsourced report?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 15:00:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60154 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-anti-semitism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:39:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4vg5p3$fof[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:38:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:22:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:

># An objective reader here could see that Mr Keren used only the
># words ‘coward’, ‘Nazi’, ‘miserable’, and ‘lies’. He completelly
># forgot to use the traditionnal ‘stupid’, ‘idiot’, and then it
># is clear that a changement is now on the way in mr Keren’s mind,
># he’s close to turn his coat and become one of our fellow
># revisionist. This is an encouraging sign.

>As I said in the past, I’m only here to make friends.

And influence people but you are only influencing the lurkers and I
get one or two a week asking for more.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 15:00:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60161 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:58:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4vr4dr$4[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 1:57:16 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Aug 1996 03:07:39 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 25 Aug 1996 15:29:38 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Um… you’ve lost me here, Matt. I didn’t say Jews were the only
>: >ones who denounced the atrocities, nor did I say–as Buchanan did–
>: >that the Jewish lobby was trying to manuver us into a war nobody
>: >else wanted. READ, Matt. It’s not that hard.
>:
>: And at the time Buchanan said it, it was true. Or were you out of the
>: country in 1990?

>Um… apparently, you were. I seem to recall most of the Republican
>party calling for intervention in the Gulf. The Dems, who are usually
>considered by jew-haters to be the great bastion of the Jooish
>conspiracy, where mostly agin it.

Obviously you were out of the country as it was all candidate a
candidate as the conventions were over and did not mention the
subject.

It appears you are making this us as you go along.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 60169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:43:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:42:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 13:53:01 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>: How dare you expect the rest of the world to be more sympathetic to
>: genocide than the jews!!! Where was, no where is, the jewish outcry
>: over the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia, in Rwanda, and elsewhere? Fuck
>: you and the Nazikor horse you rode in on! You bunch of goddamn
>: hypocrites.

>Um… apparently, you don’t read the papers. Jewish groups were
>among the first and loudest to denounce the atrocities in Bosnia and
>Rwanda.

You and Pat Buchanan. Wben it referred to war in the middle east and
it was only Israel and the Amen Corner it was antisemitc to say so.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 60171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Historians, Storytellers and the Holocaust
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:21:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:19:51 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 11:40:08 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>It is important to put the work of the couple historians (and
>>wannabes like Pressac) regarding the holocaust into perspective.

>And among all correspondents to this newsgroups, it’s Mr. Giwer who is
>qualified to judge who is to be considered a historian and who not.

No, it is up to degree granting universities to do so. You are
defending a pharamcist. The last time I asked a pharamacist about the
holocaust he said, Say what?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 60182 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 3:03:44 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 05:25:01 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>[…]

>Am I the only one who sees a striking similarity between
>this guy’s and Giwer’s writing style?

>And he also uses “holohugger”?

>And he and Giwer shower compliments on each other?

>And he also posts 30 or so articles per day?

>It’s a common tactic of the Nazis here to use a few aliases.
>Gannon did it. “dvdthomas” admitted to also using “bob hunt”,
>”dbtgthomas”, and “agathist”.

>And the “kurt stele” admits that it’s not his real name.

>Just something to think about.

>-Danny Keren.

Are you really so strange that you have bave not read the Sobran
commentary?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 60189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!szdc-e!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:21:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 1:20:33 AM PDT 1996
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On 25 Aug 1996 03:50:55 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu
wrote:

> I apologise Yale for my comportment this week. I humiliated you twice
> in the same week, about the number of Holocaust survivors in Israel
> and the evacuation of the soviet Jews. I promiss I’ll spare you more
> in the future.

Hold it right there.

You get no point for this.

I humiliated him eight times in the same week.

You can not win the humble award for this one.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:55 PDT 1996
Article: 60190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]m.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:05:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 11:04:36 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 05:17 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>>>It is totally and completely clear that you’re doing it
>>>only to put this person in danger. There’s no other
>>>reason whatsoever.
>>
>> What danger? My phone number and address have been up for a long time
>>and there has not been the slightest hint of danger even though
>>holohuggers are known for violence.

> Not the slightest hint? So then you now acknowledge you were lying
> when you characterized the single contacts to your father and your son
> as harrassment?

Harrassment is a crime regardless of perception of a threat.

I have no consideration that the lying (redundant) holohugger who
called my father did not intend to represent a physical danger to him
and that he will not do it again. However, at the time he was and he
is responsible for his actions whether or not the consequences are
intended.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 16:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 60191 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 08:26:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 3:25:00 AM CDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:24:57 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> ># How many times are you folks going to spam ads for
>> ># Nizkor? And what is the difference between what you
>> ># folks post and what I post?
>>
>> >The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
>> >a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
>> >not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
>> >Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.
>>
>> How do you know?

>He might have Ken’s phone number? Thought never occur
>to you, Bonehead?

I used the email address. Did that never occur to you?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 17:33:11 PDT 1996
Article: 60195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:59:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:58:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 03:46:18 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In , [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>
>>> Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>>> murderer.
>>
>>
>>Of course you realize that this is a defamatory statement.

>Actually, it’s a libelous statement.

Actually you publically stated in this newsgroup that you were into
wetwork for the Jewish intelligence agency and wetwork is murder.

Or would you have it called something else?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 17:51:14 PDT 1996
Article: 60205 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Attack of the killer holohuggers
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:18:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 12:17:14 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

No matter what happens in this newsgroup, there have been no
mailbombings, no personal attacks against anyone supporting orthodox
holohuggery.

Yet there have been attacks upon those questioning holohuggery’s
orthodoxy. And they have been admitted and applauded in this
newsgroup.

So just who is it that is against free speech and who is it how wishes
to move the intellectual discussion to a personal discussion. The
holohuggers only.

Who are the uncivil people here? The holohuggers. Our resident
muderer for a Jewish organization sends mail bombs and brags he
controls uunet.ca to get away with it. I was unaware the Canadians
had sold their souls to the Mossad to shut down criticism.

Obviously there is more going on here that meets the eye, mainly that
the holohoggers pretend to be organized as Jews and think they can
spread terror simply by being Jews.

Obviously they are nothing.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 18:50:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60210 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:30:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 11:29:19 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 96 15:49:35, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)] [Friday >August 23 1996 23:22][*][0]*>

> MG> And what is the difference between what you folks post and what
> MG> I post?

>Nizkor folks post the facts.

>You post (and admit to posting) nonsense.

>This is a fact.

>++GMAIL 1.3++ We’re laughing at you Matt – you pathetic fool!
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

And a man who told me he did wetwork for the Mossad objects to being
described as a murderer for a Jewish organization.

Why?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 18:50:44 PDT 1996
Article: 60214 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mailbombingmeister
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:28:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 1:27:14 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Aug 1996 01:54:37 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 24 Aug 1996 03:44:07 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>You’re totally around the bend, Matt.
>>
>> And you are either a murderer for a Jewish intelligence agency as you
>>told me and admitted in a.r or you are a liar.

>You are a definitely sick man.

>I have never told you anything of the sort nor have I ever “admitted” it
>in A.R.

>BTW – are you now stating that you have kept this purported information
>from the police for the last few years, Matt?

You said it to me. I can not change what you said.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 26 20:11:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60221 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Proof of Jewish Media Control…does not exist
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:13:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 5:12:41 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 08:57:36 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>who cares about shareholders and nonesense, Ken, the jews run the media

Success has a hundred fathers, failure is an orphan.

When the media does something “good” see who takes credit.

We are regularly given idiot to insane movies where there is some
major conspiracy to take over the world. Given the rules of movie
making it is some corporation or the military, evil in any event.

Yet the greatest resonant is the longest running conspiracy theory
that Jews are out to take over the world. Of course a fantasy, of
course entertainment, but you will never see it. Why not?

You see, as soon as it is released gas chambers will be opened up all
over the world, Nazis will rise from their graves, dogs and cats
living together.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 27 07:31:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60245 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 02:28:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 9:27:33 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:28:33 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It is a frigging spreadsheet format you fool. What is
># your problem? Never heard of a spreadsheet?

>I use Unix on an HP workstation. Apparently it does not
>recognize this format, although I could read in-between
>the binary.

>As a matter of fact, I heard about spreadsheets but
>I’m really not into word-processing etc, moreover I
>try to stay away from PC’s as much as possible.

No, you do not. You are claiming to use one under a different name.
C or J class?

Only
>document processing I do is Latex. Thank God for Linux,
>it’s the best thing that happened to PC’s.

A CS PhD who thinks spreadsheets are related to word processing. It
is truly amazing.

Unix? What to talk about it? Or perhaps explain what you do with
Linux? You should have at least said C.

># I made no such claim.

>Yes you did.

> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/08/10
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>
># Go take another look at it and note the amount released in
># the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common
># description of the time frame. THEN calculate backwards to
># find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality
># in that time frame.
>#
># And then, when you discover that two people could not carry
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
># enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
># kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.

>

>Stick that into your spreadsheet, loudmouth.

This is an example of why Nizkor is being deliberately and willfully
misleading in pirating only one side of a discussion. Now put it back
into the context of the temperature of a Polish winter in which it was
cast.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 27 07:31:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!pendragon!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 02:32:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 26 9:31:44 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Aug 1996 10:05:13 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J.
Green) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Brian Harmon wrote:
>>Daniel Keren wrote:
>>>
>>> [email protected] (Richard Widmann) writes:
>>>
>>> # The importance of these calculations is really in regard to
>>> # the Cyanide concentrations found during the various samples
>>> # and chemical analysis that were conducted.
>>>
>>> I thought we’ve been through this, many times.
>>
>>[Dr. Keren’s reply snipped]
>>
>>> Because of that, the walls of the homicidal gas chambers
>>> were exposed to the gas for a much shorter time than
>>> those of the delousing chambers.
>>
>>It’s also worth pointing out that on Pressac’s _Techniques
>>and Operation of the Auschwitz Gas Chambers_ mentions that
>>the delousing gassings were done more often.
>>
>>[Pressac, _Techniques… p 53]
>>
>>So, not only were the delousing periods longer in time, they
>>also occurred with greater frequency.
>>
>>btw, isn’t this the same Rudolph who tried to make prussian
>>blue to ‘prove’ that if cyanide was used in the gas chambers
>>it would be present?

>Indeed! And is it the same Rudolf that misled the Fresenius
>Institute by implying that the samples he needed were related to work at
>the Max Planck institute by using Institute notepaper? Is this the same
>Rudolf who the Max Planck Institute has denied supporting in such
>research?

Behold a classic example of the holohugger when they can not deal with
the results of the research, attack the researcher.

It worked on Leuchter so why not continue to do it?

When they do not like the message they assassinate the messenger.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 27 13:00:08 PDT 1996
Article: 60338 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Economics of Gassing
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:03:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 5:02:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:39:58 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> It has been said that the reason for shipping Jews to camps with gas
>>chambers was because of the cost of ammunition.
>>

>It has been said by whom?

Holohuggers in this newsgroup. Pay attention or go to DejaNews.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 27 13:00:09 PDT 1996
Article: 60339 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The [failure to provide] Proof of Jewish Media Control
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 12:05:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 5:04:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Aug 1996 08:59:43 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>Speaking of Jewish control of the media, and the Big Lie, old
>son, perhaps, now that another day has gone by, you can
>finally provide the answers to those nagging questions you’ve
>been working with:

>How many newspaper publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many magazine publishers are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many cable broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many radio broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>How many television broadcasters are there in North America?
>How many are privately held?
>How many of those are held by Jewish investors?
>How many are traded on the exchange?
>How many are held by controlling Jewish investors?

>I know, I know, it’s a tough set of data to deal with, but
>hey, you _are_ the expert here – at least I assume you have
>expertise, since you share your beliefs with us, and those
>beliefs are obviously based upon solid and scrupulous
>research, right?

>I’ll give you a hint, Bucky…. the United States and Canadian
>governments have the answers to some of these questions – finding
>the rest, for an obvious scholar like yourself, well, hey,
>that should be easy.

>I know you’re busy… life’s like that these days, eh? So I
>will remind you from time to time – your own virtual memory,
>you know?

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Too many.

From [email protected] Tue Aug 27 16:03:37 PDT 1996
Article: 60374 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Breakthrough on “Vergasungskeller” from Arthur Butz
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 03:54:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 8:58:57 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 96 16:47:21 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:

>> I
>> have no intention of checking out Wilcox. That is called hearsay.

>Actually he reprints a letter from this august organisation.
>>
>> What is the statement of the ADL, Lyin’ Al? Where can anybody
>> check it out for themselves?
>>
>Again, check out the Tulsa World, November 17, 1992.

>”NEW YORK (AP) One in five adult Americans holds strong prejudicial attitudes
> against Jews…according to a survey release Monday.” – A survey by the ADL.

>Check out too the ADL sponsored book ANTI-SEMITISM IN AMERICA and other
>dross.

What would be more interesting would be to read the actual survey
questions and see what constitutes this determination.

Were there a survey here one of the questions could be “Do you believe
in every literal word about gassing?” and all negative answers
considered prejudicial. Keren, et al., are that stupid.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60486 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:21:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 4:20:32 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:34:16 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In article
>> [email protected] writes:
>> > > That proves what a fucking arsehole you are Chuck. You went to war for
>> > > “freedom”. Lauck was gaoled for calling Jews rats and for questioning the
>> > > Holocaust. I don’t recall any Jew being gaoled for four years in
>Nazi Germany
>> > > for calling Hitler a rat. Seems like the previous regime was more liberal
>> > > than the current one.
>> >
>> >
>> > JEEZ, Mr. Baron. I always gave you a LITTLE credit, but you’ve wiped that
>> > completely.
>> >
>> > Let’s review your statement. You said:
>> >
>> > “I don’t recall any Jew being gaoled for four years in Nazi Germany for
>> > calling Hitler a rat.”
>> >
>> > Think about what you just said, Mr. Baron.
>> >
>> > OF COURSE Jews weren’t gaoled. THEY WERE PUT INTO CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND
>> > MURDERED.
>>
>> Prior to World War II Jews were not murdered by the State; crimes against
>> Jews “individual acts” were punished by the courts, sometimes severely. With
>> the single spectacular exception of Kristallnacht the persecution of the Jews
>> in Germany did not involve orchestrated violence.
>>
>> Jews were not interned for being Jewish. Leaving that aside, two wrongs
>> don’t make a right. Chuck fought for nothing, and his comrades died for the
>> same reason.

>Liar. Jews were placed into concentration camps, where they were tortured,
>experimented on, and murdered, specifically because they were Jewish.
>Gypsies were placed into the same camps specifically becuase they were
>gypsies. Homosexuals were given the same treatment specifically because
>they were homosexual. All because your nazi heros needed scapegoats to
>fulfill its hate filled agenda.

Be all that as it may be, no one fought for anything in your paragraph
in any manner whatsoever. That was all a secret, remember?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60489 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel
Subject: believe anything.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:54:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 159
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:60489 soc.culture.israel:41952

Belief so divorced from reality that votes can be bought with prayers.
What a country.

http://www.csicop.org/sb/9606/israel.html

Israel: Where the Paranormal Is Normal

by Eric Lee

I should begin by saying that this has always been a land in which the
paranormal is normal.
According to all the religions which have blossomed here, throughout
history miracles have
taken place practically on a daily basis in the land of Israel. The
dead have been revived, the
sick have been cured spiritually, oceans have parted to make way for
the good guys (and
then drown the bad guys), water has turned into wine, stone into
water, and so forth. On the
very eve of the twenty-first century, I’m happy to report that nothing
here has changed and
miracle-making continues apace.

Today there are two Israels. One is the old, religious Israel with its
deep faith in ancient
traditions — and which accepts paranormal events as part of its
worldview. The other is the
modern, secular Israel which, though it rejects much of the old
tradition, seems equally willing
to live in a world where the normal and paranormal exist side by side.

The recent elections here gave us one good example. Israeli election
laws forbid the
payment of voters to cast their ballots for one party or another.
“Payment” means not only
cash, but also the promise of miracles. For example, it is forbidden
to bribe a voter by
promising that an especially important rabbi will pray for him. The
issue came up in 1996
when rabbis associated with the Sephardic Torah Guardians party (known
in Hebrew as
“Shas”) began distributing holy amulets and postcards with sacred
powers to potential voters
(in exchange for a promise to vote for Shas).

The distribution of the amulets on a mass scale raised a major
scandal, though there were
few voices which dared (in an election season) to raise the question
of how exactly these
amulets brought good luck. Shas’ opponents simply argued that the
amulets were ineffective
because they were manufactured in the Far East, by gentiles. Not only
wouldn’t they work, but
they would probably bring bad luck upon those who took them.
Nevertheless, Shas
supporters claimed that the amulets were already working. In one case,
a little boy fell out of a
fourth story window and survived without a scratch — because his
father had taken one of the
holy amulets.

It is not only the Sephardic Jews, who originate in the Islamic
countries, who have their
miracle workers. The Ashkenazi (European) Jews have their fair share
of miracles too. A
shop in Jerusalem was recently caught selling bath water in which the
late Lubavitcher rebbe
had purportedly bathed. When reproached for this commercial
exploitation of sacred water,
the store owners insisted that the water was not actually for sale,
but that donations were
appreciated.

The cult which arose world-wide around the Lubavitcher rebbe was rich
in miracle lore. The
rebbe’s unexpected death (he was supposed to reveal himself as the
Messiah and redeem
the world) did nothing to dampen enthusiasm among his supporters, and
his photograph
continues to decorate posters around the country. The fact that such a
“cult of personality”
flies in the face of thousands of years of Jewish tradition (which
rejects idol worship) has not
deterred the Lubavitcher hassidim.

In recent years, Israel has grown rapidly and today it has the highest
economic growth rate in
the Western world. A new, educated urban middle class has been one
result of that growth.
These Israelis, thoroughly modern in every way, have been no less
enthralled by the
possibilities of the paranormal. Though they laugh off holy amulets
and sacred bath water,
they embrace the whole gamut of modern paranormal beliefs.

In most ways they are just copying Americans. The “X-Files” is
enormously popular here,
especially among the very young. The fake Roswell autopsy film was
shown on Israeli
television months after it was first shown in the U.S. and Europe,
with no critical comment.
Astrologers and others who claim to see into the future are often
brought in to lighten up the
news with their predictions of who will win elections and the like.
All the major newspapers
and several magazines run astrology columns in every issue. Books on
paranormal themes
are widely available.

UFOs are sighted in Israel all the time; sometimes a special
significance is attached to alien
visitors coming here, to the Holy Land. Not long ago, Israeli
television’s respected news
program devoted several minutes to this phenomenon. Reporters
interviewed the secretary
of a moshav (cooperative farm) who had met one of the “greys” (alien
visitors), as well as
one of our local expert UFOlogists. In late April this year, one of
the two biggest daily
newspapers ran a large frontpage photo of a light blur against a dark
background headlined
(you guessed it) “UFOs in Tel Aviv?” The question mark was more than
appropriate,
because — as became clear from reading the story — what actually
happened was that a
nervous resident of Israel’s largest city had called the police to
report what turned out to be a
military helicopter.

Unconventional and “alternative” health cares are as popular here as
anywhere else. In the
early 1990s the Ministry of Health set out to look into the whole
issue and formulate policy,
and came up with a document basically saying that all forms of
“complementary medicine”
were all right. Since then there have been a profusion of “colleges”
teaching the skills
necessary to practice such treatments, as well as practitioners in
search of Israelis who have
grown dissatisfied with conventional medicine.

Of course when one thinks of Israel and the paranormal, the name that
jumps to mind is Uri
Geller. But Mr. Geller now resides in London, where you can pick up
his latest book teaching
you how to bend spoons. He is not often here, if ever, and gets little
media attention.

I’ll end on an upbeat note. A few years ago, one of our two television
stations decided to cash
in on the paranormal and devote a show to the whole range of phenomena
we’ve just
mentioned. The show would begin each week with weird music and occult
symbols, setting
just the right tone for serious discussion of the paranormal. But
ratings were low, and the
show flopped. Maybe there’s hope for us yet.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60491 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:44:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 4:43:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 03:58:10 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 25 Aug 1996 21:36:32 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>
>> > Times have passed you by. The question Giwer raised is not a debate
>> >over the use of the word. He has stated that the tape of the speech is a
>fabrication
>> >by the CIA/DoD.
>
>> > I suggest that you either tell Giwer he is wrong or join him in the
>proposed
>> >experiment to test his theory.

> [Giwer’s lies snipped]

> You are still ducking the question, Matty poo.

> When will you either accept McVay’s (his real name) proposal to make a
>scientific test of you assertion or admit that you fabricated your charge?

> –YFE (my real initials)

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60495 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!zdc-e!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS Unterscharfuhrer Karl Alfred Schluch
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:46:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 2:45:52 AM CDT 1996

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:12:45 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>The testimony of SS Unterscharfuhrer Karl Alfred Schluch:

>”In the morning or noon time we were informed by Wirth, Schwartz, or
>Oberhauser that a transport of Jews should arrive soon…The
>disembarkation from the freight cars was carried out by a group of
>Jewish prisoners under the command of their capos. Two or three
>Germans from the camp staff supervised the action. It was my
>obligation to carry out such supervisions. After the disembarkation,
>the Jews were taken to the assembly square. During the disembarkation,
>the Jews were told they had come here for transfer and they should go
>to the baths and disinfection. This announcement was made by Wirth and
>translated by a Jewish capo. Afterwards the Jews were taken to the
>undressing barracks.

Lets see, the Judas Jews were doing all of the dirty work. But then
that is a standard component of these stories. It is very Christian.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60507 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:02:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:01:32 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 28 Aug 1996 05:30:12 GMT, [email protected] (Kenneth McVay)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>> MG> If Alec is making it up about having been a member of the
>> MG> Mossad and about killing people then the connection is there.
>> MG> Of course, since he never said who he worked for at the Mossad
>> MG> it is probably just another of his fantasies. I have yet to
>> MG> hear of a Mossad type that did not indentify himself by his
>> MG> handler.

>>You really can’t read, can you?
>>The person who added 1+1 and got 37 is Matt Giwer.

>TILT. Mr. Giwer added 1+1 and got 163.
>Same difference, of course.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
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From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60508 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:39:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 3:38:34 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:25:11 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Richard
>Widmann) wrote:

>> In article Daniel Keren wrote:
>> ># The importance of these calculations is really in regard to
>> ># the Cyanide concentrations found during the various samples
>> ># and chemical analysis that were conducted.
>> >
>> >I thought we’ve been through this, many times.
>> >
>> >The required exposure time for delousing is very long
>> >(many hours). Homicidal gassing with the same concentration
>> >kills within minutes.
>>
>> Well, here we disagree. See the complete Rudolf Report for a
>> detailed analysis of this question.
>>
>> In brief: 1)The unheated cellars (gas chambers) in K II and III had
>> moist walls, in contrast to the heated delousing chambers on the
>> ground fall.

>The homicidal gas chambers of Kremas II and III weren’t unheated:

>”Within several minutes, 20 at most, all the victims were dead. The time
>required for the gas to take effect depended on various factors that
>effected the evaporation of the gas: temperature, humidity, the congestion
>inside the chamber. Whenever the outside air temperature was higher than
>the inside temperature, the cool air was ectracted by ventilators from the
>chamber before the gas pellets were poured inside. To speed up the
>evaporation of the poison gas in winter, iron baskets filled with red-hot
>coke were brought inside. Some unssuccessful attempts were made to heat
>the chamber interior with heat from the chimney flues.” (_Anatomy_,
>p.170.)

A derivative source is meaningless. What is his source? He has none?
Why is that expected?

>Niether were homicidal gas chambers of Kremas IV and VI unheated:

>”A striking feature of [Bauleitung] drawing 2036(p) is that four of the
>rooms are not labelled: the two westernmost rooms and their corridor (with
>a total floor area of 240 m^2) and the large room (245 m^2) i the centre
>of the building. The stove for this room present on [Bauleitung] drawing
>1678 has dissapeared, but each of the two wsternmost rooms has a stove,
>the hearths being fired from the corridor, outside the rooms (using coal
>from the store next to the doctor’s room).” (_Technique_. p.398; cf. Ibid.
>pp.392,399.)

Other than this derivative source again, the entire LK had only and
area of 232 sq meters. It is not clear what he is talking about or
what you are quoting.

>> The tendency of the moist walls to become enrichened
>> by hydrocyanic acid would demonstrably have been at least 10 times
>> greater than that of the dry walls in the delousing chambers.

>And yet they weren’t. This, even if your unssuported allegations were
>true, evidence that the walls of the homicidal gas chambers were exposed
>for shorter durations and/or to lesser concentrations of HCN than the
>delousing gas chambers. Obviously, then the homicidal gas chambers didn’t
>fuction as delousing chambers if they don’t exibit the same forensic
>characteristics, no?

>BANG! Oops, how’s that foot?

Pressac is armed and dangerous?

>> 2) To explain the differences in cyanide values between the gas
>> chambers and the delousing chamber (by a factor of 100 to 1,000),
>> the product of the factors (concentration x gassing times) in the
>> case of gassing of human beings must also have been 1,000 to 10,000
>> times lower, if not less, in order to compensate for the higher
>> rate of HCN absorption by the damp cellar walls.

>[snip]

>And what, exactly, was the “rate of HCN absorption by the damp cellar
>walls?” What was the concentration of HCN over the period of exposure
>(5-20 minutes) in the homicidal gas chambers? What is the immediately
>human lethal concentration of HCN?

>BANG! Oops, how’s that other foot?

You have read that information but you have no idea what you are
talking about else you would konw that you have. Alex G. has declared
it has been posted. Why did you miss it?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 07:32:33 PDT 1996
Article: 60509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.society.conservatism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:32:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:34:10 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>*Go to the website and read more than the mission statement and find
>*who rare the mention of anyone but jews. Read the lesson plans where
>*the teaching is to focus on Jews.

>Uh huh. HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE MUSEUM?

Few go to the museum many go to the website. Sorry, if you feel
they are different then they are lying on their website.

But then gypsies did protest at the opening for the failure to
recognize them.

>I have.

So master a browser some day. They are idiot proof. Even you can do
it.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:47 PDT 1996
Article: 60545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 04:18:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 27 11:17:31 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Aug 1996 13:32:49 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Obviously you were out of the country as it was all candidate a
>: candidate as the conventions were over and did not mention the
>: subject.
>:
>: It appears you are making this us as you go along.

>Matt, I can’t respond to you if you keep talking gibberish. What
>does “it was all candidate a candidate” mean? What did not mention
>what subject? Where did I talk about any conventions? Help me
>out here, Matt. Write in English.

If you would get over your habit of editting our of context you would
have to admit you understand it.

On 26 Aug 1996 03:07:39 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 25 Aug 1996 15:29:38 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Um… you’ve lost me here, Matt. I didn’t say Jews were the only
>: >ones who denounced the atrocities, nor did I say–as Buchanan did–
>: >that the Jewish lobby was trying to manuver us into a war nobody
>: >else wanted. READ, Matt. It’s not that hard.
>:
>: And at the time Buchanan said it, it was true. Or were you out of the
>: country in 1990?

>Um… apparently, you were. I seem to recall most of the Republican
>party calling for intervention in the Gulf. The Dems, who are usually
>considered by jew-haters to be the great bastion of the Jooish
>conspiracy, where mostly agin it.

Obviously you were out of the country as it was all candidate a
candidate as the conventions were over and did not mention the
subject.

It appears you are making this us as you go along.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:48 PDT 1996
Article: 60548 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:17:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 1:16:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:47:59 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >”Your Honor, despite the fact that the prosecution has three hundred
>> >and seventy-six witnesses who heard the defendant threaten the life
>> >of the victim, I demand the case be dismissed because they have not
>> >presented a single piece of evidence to indicate that my client ever
>> >wrote down his threat. As there was no indication that the murder
>> >was his official policy, they have no case.”
>>
>> And because there is not the slightest bit of physical evidence of any
>> gassing.
>>
>> You left out that part. That is you deliberately left out the lack of
>> evidence of anyone murdered. But you know that.

>You mean like rooms with cyanide traces on the walls that were designed
>with showerheads that were not connected to a water system next to a
>series of furnaces meant to burn a lot of people?

Showerheads and missing copper pipe proves that every abandoned
building in the US was used for gassing. We have been over this. Or
did you forget?

The last time I asked for actual drawings of showerheads only to
support your case or some other evidence that there was never any
connection to water.

None was provided.

In addition I have posted

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

Guess what? I found a gas chamber in the old Reich. I have also
found powdered cyanide.

“Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling-
the dummy shower heads. In the engineers’ room- the intake and outlet
pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve
to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal
smoke. From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the
crematory.”

IMT XXX – p.470.

Amazing what you can find if you look around.

And holohuggers are going to believe it.

=====

If you believe that one, it has to be a matter of practiced credulity.

>You mean like eyewitness testimony not only from prisoners but the
>perpetrators themselves that is supported by local residents who noted
>all the people going in and not a whole lot coming out?

If testimony and confession are proof them the Devil exists and there
are witches and there are women who have borne the children of aliens.
(The truth is out there, Moulder.)

>You mean like population data that show several million people sort
>of missing?

31 million of them. Want to tell me how you know what fraction were
gassed?

>You man like documentation that shows the intent and the method to
>commit genocide?

All of that depends upon translation and validity of the evidence.
You do remember the recent post of a 1921 and a 1943 speech that still
referred to it in the future? 21 years of inactivity puts it on the
order of Jews taking over the world.

>Is that the “lack of evidence” you are babbling about?

I am talking about physical evidence.

Physical evidence is something Jews only understand and demand when
someone claims Jews control the media and banks and such. When it has
to do with gassing, things on the order of the Protocols of the Elders
of Zion are damning.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60555 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:20:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 3:19:40 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:56:27 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Daniel Keren wrote:
>>
>>
>> HP workstation. I said so. You want to call it a PC? Fine,
>> call it a PC. Call it a holohugger. I don’t care.

>Hmmmm! I use a 700/RX diskless acting as a terminal to the 755 server.

>Not bad for what’s basically a web browser and mainframe terminal.

>>
>> # A CS PhD who thinks spreadsheets are related to word
>> # processing. It is truly amazing.
>>
>> Don’t know, don’t care. I give up. What’s a spreadsheet?
>>

>If you keep pulling, it’ll probably come off. Matt’s falling apart
>faster every day.
>>
>> Matt, computer science is not about document processing
>> and organizing or stuff like that.
>>

>How dare you tell Matt Giwer what Computer Science is all about?!?

>He knows nothing, sees nothing, tells all.

>> # Unix? What to talk about it? Or perhaps explain what you
>> # do with Linux? You should have at least said C.
>>
>> Linux? It simulates Unix on a PC. Great thing.

>Hmmph! HP-UX is no great shakes of an implementation.

>>
>> Where you put C into all this I don’t know. Great programming
>> language. You can use it with Unix or with Windows.

>I prefer PL/I. C is still assembler with sugar on top.

I would expect you to be bright enough call up the HP website and
browse it for workstations.

But I guess you thing spreadsheets are for word processiong also.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60558 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stele: “I haven’t a clue, but my mouth is big.”
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:22:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:21:45 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 21:36:27 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>1) WALT DISNEY

>a- The largest media conglomerate in the world today

>b- headed by Michael Eisner (jewish)

>c- the Walt Disney Picture group is headed by Joe Roth (jewish) and
>includes Touchstone Pictures and Caravan Pictures

>Do the media have the power to further orthodoxy to the Holocaust tale?
>Yes. Are the media masters using their power to further orthodoxy to the
>Holocaust tale? Yes. If revisionism -is- true and the holocaust is
>largely false, can this truth ever be given a hearing, much less a -fair-
>hearing with the current status of media ownership? No. Is it any wonder
>why the public does not know of the revisionist position and of the body
>of facts in its favor? No. Is it wonder why the public does not know of
>the evidentiary deficiencies of the Holocaust tale? No. Considering the
>fact that the media was heavily jewish at the time of WWII as well, along
>with the torture, coercion, and obvious one-sidednessness of the WWII
>”warcrime trials,” as well as the benefit the jews received and receive
>from the Holocaust tale, is it plausible that an anti-German hoax that
>serves jewish interest could have been perpetrated and given wide
>publicity and acceptance? Yes.

>Do the same jewish power which conceals from the public the fact of its
>overwhelming media dominance also have the power to conceal the truth
>about the Holocaust tale as well?

>Yes.

Although your information does no more than support the common opinion
in Israel, it will certainly be denounced in the US by the holohuggers
who put the Israel before the US in their loyalties and should have
the integrity to go where their loyalties lie.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60561 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Repost] DoD Wants To …
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:40:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 12:40:00 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 96 13:03:00 +0100, [email protected] (ANGUS
MCLELLAN) wrote:

>[I tried to post a reply to this a couple of days ago, but there is no
>sign of it on DejaNews. So, I’ve reposted an edited version.]

>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Fri, 16 Aug 96 00:05:00 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>>>Oddly enough, the Giwer’s beloved Nazis were none too fussy on the
>>>”rules of warfare”, e.g. the ‘Commissar Order’, ‘Nacht und Nebel’,
>>>the ‘Bullet Decree’, the murder of German and Czech exiles in 1940,
>>>the murder by ommission and commission of millions of prisoners of
>>>war, et cetera ad nauseam and well beyond. But don’t take my word
>>>for it. [snip]

>>And as you know, the 1899 rules were not unilaterally binding but
>>only applied when signatories to it were at war with each other. And
>>if a signatory allied with a non-signatory then the rules were
>>inoperative for all the allies. That means that if any one of the
>>countries allied against Germany was not a signtory, Germany was not
>>bound by them.
>> Your next task is to look up which countries were signatories
>>and which were not.

>I know that the USSR and Germany, in the forms in which they existed in
>1899 and 1907, had signed the Hague Conventions on Land Warfare. Can Mr
>Giwer direct me to the document showing that either Germany or the USSR
>or both had denounced the 1907 convention per article 8 ? If he cannot,
>what is his point ?

Poland did not sign them. England joined on the side of Poland
therefore they were null as per the conventions. Then Russia and
England allied making them null against Russia. You should know that.
That is the way they were written.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:51 PDT 1996
Article: 60598 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Feigned ignorance
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:55:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 154
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 1:54:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Aug 1996 04:55 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> Why is it that when it comes to gassing personal statements and
>>testimony are enough but when it comes to “jews control the media”
>>physical evidence is required?

> The troll’s premise is wrong. Personal statements and testimony are
> never enough to establish a detailed account of history. Those
> personal statements and testimony must be interwoven with the archival
> and physical evidence to decidedly know what has taken place.

> Also, I don’t believe that anyone here has asked for “physical
> evidence” regarding media control. But several here have asked for
> some archival evidence and evidence that something more than a cursory
> analysis has taken place.

> I suspect this whole debate is well over the troll’s head.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: j*ws admit control over USA
From: [email protected] (M Huber)
Date: 16 Jun 1996 17:48:08 GMT

alt.conspiracy
[1] “…(entire USA) in hands of Israel..”-Ari Shawit
[email protected]
Israeli columnist Ari Shavit claims “…the White House, the
Senate and much of the American media is in our (Israel’s) hands….”
————————————————————————
Following is an article from the June 13, 1996 edition of The Wanderer
that cries for wide distribution.
————————————————————————
“In Our Hands”
by Joseph Sobran

One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
conspiracy theory.

The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari Shavit,
an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli
killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: “We killed them
out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude
that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our
own…”

In a single phrase — “in our hands” — Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.

Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans can
say publicly only at our own risk. It’s surprising, and refreshing,
to find such candor in an American newspaper (though his essay was
reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).

The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a “reliable
ally” of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of
double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of
American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The
word “ally” implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the
interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted
to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest
otherwise.

You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies, after
all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much
of the American media should be “in our hands,” as Shavit puts it.
Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no
protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of
their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel
(wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no
control.

Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance
of Israeli “defense.” Congress too is “in our hands.”

A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s
power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one
enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to
criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly
that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country.
They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.

But much of the press and electronic media are “in our hands” in a
more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in
the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
“democracy” and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities — mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on
a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.

No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the status
of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet Americans
are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians, on the flimsy
pretext that they are helping an “ally” in America’s own
self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole Muslim world.

All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel than
for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of Israel is
permitted in Israel, as Shavit’s article illustrates. It’s rarely
permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very
effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls
attention to his own government’s — and his own profession’s —
servitude to Israeli interests.

Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of
affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning
back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for
us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.

=========end==============
*****{{{{{{{{{*****************}}}}}}}}}*****
Un-Official News and Opinion from
Linda Muller Web Author [email protected]
Member Northern Alabama Kitchen Militia
Use the Ballot Box – Not the Cartridge Box!
”””””””””””””””””””””””
Pat Buchanan Internet Campaign Headquarters
http://www.buchanan.org
”””””””””””””””””””””””
US Taxpayers Party Internet Headquarters
http://www.ustaxpayers.org
”””””””””””””””””””””””
GO PAT….GO BRIGADES….GO USTP!!!!!!!!
*****{{{{{{{{{*****************}}}}}}}}}*****
For a Cutting Edge, Hard-Right Political WEB PAGE:
http://www.best.com/~jdulaney/politics.html
http://www.johnbirch.com/
http://www.tncnet.com/~rsears/jbs/resource.html

“All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it

is
violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
— Arthur Schopenhauer

“A thousand years hence, perhaps in less, America may be what Europe
is
now…. the noblest work of human wisdom, the grand scene of human
glory,

the fair cause of freedom that rose and fell.”
— Thomas Paine

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:52 PDT 1996
Article: 60604 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 05:45:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 10:44:38 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:42:58 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Mailbombing is considered net abuse. A bot anything like what you are
>> doing is considered net abuse.
>
>So are threats, Mr. Giwer.
>
>So is most of what you post.

What threats, schwarte?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:24:52 PDT 1996
Article: 60605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers: jewish economic boycotts are OK
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:56:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:55:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 21:54:51 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (Allan Matthews) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:
>>>
>>>Holohuggers claim that jewish economic boycotts are OK.

>>Please show some proof of this statement.

>>>They claim that
>>>jewish boycotts are no different than Baptist boycotts or Greenpeace
>>>boycotts.

>>Just who are “they” anyway? You can generally find someone who’ll
>support
>>just about any position. For example, there may even be someone around
>here
>>who would say you’re intelligent. Of course it won’t be those of us who
>>really are.

>>>It’s just so happens, though, that jewish-money power is far more
>powerful
>>>and cohesive than any other group.

>>Your basis for this assertion is?

>>>The influence and cohesion of any
>>>other group pales in comparison to the power of the jews.

>>Really, how can you tell? I thought this was true of industrialists,
>but
>>Jews?

>>>Hollywood can
>>>make movies all they want depicting priests as swaggering drunks or
>>>psychopathic killers,

>>What movies show priests as killers (there probably are alcoholic
>priests,
>>just like every other occupation)?

>>>or Whites or Arabs potrayed as insane bigots and
>>>mindless terrorists, but when does one ever see a negative jewish
>>>stereotype on the silver screen?

>>They did in the good, ole 3rd Reich ‘n Roll… Given their place in
>history
>>that put a bit of a damper on such things. However, I also recall there

>>being complaints about such stereotyping in an animated version of the
>life of
>>Jesus put out by some Christian fundies not too long ago.

>At least the Reich never denied its bias. It made no bones about it. The
>hypocritical jewish media claims it doesn’t contain biases, and that its
>biases aren’t in favor of jews. That’s a laugh.

>>>How many movies have ever been made in
>>>Hollywood and given box-office fanfare which depict the truth of
>>>Palestinians being tortured and killed by Israelis and driven out of
>their
>>>land by military force or placed in concentration camps?

>>That really sounds like a box office winner. Hollywood, afterall, is
>>primarily out to make money, not make political statements. But then
>>economics, like any advanced topic, is obviously beyond you.

>Virtually any historical event can be made the subject matter of a
>box-office winner if it is given sufficient funding and industry backing.
>For example, “In the Name of the Father” starring Daniel Day Lewis was
>about British injustices committed against Irish, and how the British
>prison system treated Irish dissidents. Day’s character was wrongly
>accused, denied due process, tortured until he gave an untrue confession,
>and then thrown into jail for several years.

>There could easily be a movie about Palestinians similar to “In the Name
>of the Father.” Goodness knows the director of that film could have a
>large and diverse selection of varying atrocities committed by Israelis
>against Palestinians to choose from.

>Several movies that have been box office hits have been about historical
>events and injustices committed by one people against another. However,
>for some reason, however, there have been no box office movies ever made
>which recounts the injustices of Israelis or jews against any people. Gee,
>I wonder why.

>Jewish Hollywood refuses to make movies about brutality of Israelis
>against Palestinians not because the subject matter is inappropriate for a
>box-office movie but rather because it is against the pro-jewish agenda
>and wishes of jewish Hollywood.

>There is nothing inherently more “movie-worthy” about jewish alleged
>injustices than those of any other people. The only difference is that
>jews run Hollywood like they do all other aspects of the media and have
>the power to decide whch kinds of movies will given box office fare and
>which will not.

You have just lost the battle. I played exactly this game with the
assault weapons issue nearly ten years ago when the people muttering
about it did not know what an assault weapon was. I made the mistake
of educating them by ridiculing them.

They proceded to redefine the meaning of assualt weapon “for purposes
of the law.” In other words, for purposes of the law a horse is a cow
and can give milk.

It is called Newspeak.

What you are provoking is that they produce ONE movie along those
lines but have it told sympathetic to the Israeli/Jewish point of view
and then they will be able to claim that that movie was produced and
you have not cause to complain.

That the movie will justify murder will be ignored and its simple
existence will be used to say you no position on the control of
Hollywood.

Of course the sin of Brando is that he “spoke what our enemies have
used against us” not that it was not true. It is true.

If one were interested in the moral comparison.

The violent movies are clearly an eye for an eye rather than
forgiveness. Jews have never learned foregiveness. It is not in
their book.

Remake Casablanca and Schwartenegger replaces Bogart who blasts his
way out of Casablanca. (Arnie chases the plane down the strip and
jumps on is at takes off …)

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 11:53:18 PDT 1996
Article: 41113 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum,alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Himmler Tapes & the Troll: The Murderer & the Coward
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:41:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 12:40:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum:125 alt.politics.white-power:41113 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:504

On 26 Aug 1996 08:28:46 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>It is an easy matter to determine who is right.

>> You have asserted that the tapes of the Posen speech are forgeries.
>> You have been given an opportunity to test your thesis at, if you
>> are correct, the cost of Nizkor.

>> You are the one who is refusing to test your theories.

>> Your lack of integrity is obvious to all.

>Surely that comes as no surprise to the regulars in
>alt.revisionism, Mr. Edeiken. That the Troll should actually
>put his money (feh) where his mouth is… you see…

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

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=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
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address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

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From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 13:24:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60626 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:41:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 12:40:04 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:48:11 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> I originally came across this “tape” in this conference as I described
>> it. You are advised to look at the record to see for yourself.
>> Perhaps some day you will find the time to post the chain of evidence
>> that traces it to him as the speaker.
>
>YOU are not the arbiter of everything, Mr. Giwer. Just because YOU, in
>your supreme ignorance, had never heard of Himmler’s Posen speech does not
>mean it is a fake.
>
>It means that you are supremely ignorant.
>
>Sara

>–
>”I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it.”
> Edith Sitwell

Then people here lied when they described it. Fine with me.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 14:11:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Other Victims of Anti-Semitism
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:30:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 137
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 2:29:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:25:17 -0700, Alexander Kimel
wrote:

>Other victims of anti-Semitism

>The Jews are not the only victims of anti-Semitism. I was surprised to
>find that anti-Semitism, is a scourge the affects the victims and the
>persecutors. Here are some examples:

>Spain -XV century.

>In 1492 Spain expelled all the Jews. Jews converted to Christianity
>were subjected to heavy persecutions, and many were burned alive. For
>the first time racial discrimination laws “Sangua Limpia (unclean blood)
>are introduced by the Church, and all converted Jews are removed from
>positions of influence. The Sultan of Constantinople, who received many
>Jewish refugees wonders “Why is the King of Spain is expelling his most
>literate people?”

They were consorts of the Moors who had conquered Spain of course.

It is like expecting the Kuwaitis to think kindly of the Palestinians
who came with the Iraqis.

>In 1944, Columbus discovers America. Despite all the riches plundered in
>the Americas, Spain remains for 500 years the poorest country in Europe.

Which public school should be sued for a rebate on your shit
education? The real Spain brought so much gold and was so rich that
the value of gold in Europe deflated by 100% and silver dropped from
its traditional 20:1 to 7:1 valuation.

>Questions:
>Are those fact questionable? Is this a coincidence, a statistical
>aberration, or are the Spaniards
>victims of anti-Semitism?

Answer, they are not facts as they are not true.

>Russia – XIX Century
>At the turn of the 19 century, Russia was in dire need of agrarian
>reforms. 90 % of the land was in the hands of the absentee Gentry, and
>the peasant, the muzhiks, lived in conditions worse than the cattle.
>Instead of reforms the Tzar instituted anti-Jewish pogroms, diverting
>the attention of the suffering peasants.

Peter the Great freed the serfs and they revolted.

>Two decades later, a bunch of revolutionaries, deposed the Tzar after
>gaining the support of the peasantry, by promising them land. Lack of
>reforms, diverted by pogroms, lead to the tyranny of the paranoid
>Stalin.

They gained the support of the people because of the huge war
casualties. Things were going bad for Russia in the war. The Tzar
took personal command of the armies and things got worse. Disabled
soldiers, ex-peasants filled the streets of the cities, starving in
place.

Anti-war protests were the order of the day. The Tzar was the natural
target as he was actively the commander in chief and had no scapegoats
(a lesson not lost on the communists who executed generals that lost
as the needed scapegoats.)

>Questions:
>Are those fact questionable? Is this a coincidence, a statistical
>aberration, or were the Russian people victims of their own
>anti-Semitism?

They are not facts and had nothing to do with the revolution.

>Germany 1933

>Germany elected as their absolute leader the Great Corporal. Hitler
>gained recognition by his anti-Semitic oratory, and used anti-Jewish
>measures to gain popularity and tighten his grip on this cultural
>nation. Confiscated Jewish properties were used as seed money for the
>rearmament.
>As result of Hitler’s insane policies, Germany faced total destruction
>and twelve million Germans lost their lives.

Hitler preached the superiority of the German people as did every
other European nation at the time. There were no antisemitic actions
until the World Congress of Jews instituted a total boycott of
Germany.

Hitler gained power under the provisions of the constitution that had
been imposed upon Germany by England and France. The declaration of a
state of emergency was duly passed by the government he
constiuttionally formed and assuming plenary powers was a provision of
that constitution in declared emergencies.

>Questions:
>Are those fact questionable? Could Hitler gain power without
>anti-Semitism? Were the German people victims of their own
>anti-Semitism?

They are not true therefore they are not facts.

>Poland 1968.

>In 1968, Poland expelled all Jews that held any position of influence.
>At the same time, Gierek an experienced coal miner, assumed power and
>started his “suicidal” economic policies. Poland obtained large Western
>credits that were used for importing chicken feed or buying obsolete,
>non- economic plants. In 1968 the Polish economy started a nose dive.

>Questions:
>Are those fact questionable? Is this a coincidence, a statistical
>aberration, or is there a correlation between the expulsion of
>experienced managers and the economic crisis?

I am not familiar with that one but given your track record so far, it
is very unlikely it is true.

On the other hand, Poland was in deep shit from 1939 to the over throw
of the communists without a moment’s respite that I am aware of so it
is unclear what you might be referring to in 1968.

>Other Victims:

>Anti-Semitism, appealing to the irrational prejudices and is a powerful
>tool and magnet with which dangerous, immature demagogues are gaining
>power and spread violence and destruction. Hitler, Moczar, Zhirinovsky,
>Farakhan are just a few examples.

From the thread of what you have posted it appears you are makind a
case for the superiority of Jews, as any Hitlerian might do.

What are you trying to say really?

>Alexander Kimel – Holocaust Survivor

As a fetus?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 14:53:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60641 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jews in charge?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:25:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 6:24:09 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

If the Jews are in charge, it really isn’t that bad.

Agreed, Israel is a sacred cow, but the virtue of the US is that
co-opts immigrants to its real agenda.

What we have with post WW II jews is that they were able to remain
insular for a full generation.

That is about the US average. Our Cuban folk have done longer. Our
Irish folk have done less.

Our Jewish folk are being Americanized faster than any rabbi would
like to admit.

Americanized means being unirished, and unmexican and unzionized.

Zionism is not Judaism and never was until about a century ago.

Zionists are losing to history.

Zionism has become an Israeli state the has to deliver water and pick
up the trash. It has to be more than an ideal, it has to be a
political reality. It also has to to kill real and polically imagined
enemies and by the bloody score.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 16:17:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60649 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:18:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 1:17:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:18:44 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> I prefer netcom, uu.net and uunet.ca for net abuse complaints. As
>> with the other matter it is out of my hands. It is not your opinion
>> that is of concern any longer.

>Since none of them is my provider, lots of luck.

>However, netcom.com is definitely interested in the libels by one of
>their customers.

I note the mailbombings have stopped.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 16:17:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60654 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gas-tight doors
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:44:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 1:43:23 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Much has been made of the “gastight” door reference.

For those completely unfamiliar wtih the WW I / II period let me
explain that poison gas was used in the first and was expected to be
used in the second.

Bomb shelters would equipped with the best for all conditions as were
the troops in Iraq equipped with CBW equipment even though the
likelihood of their being used was minimal.

Yes, a “gas”tight door would be expected. It would also be airtight
to keep out the direct effects of the overpressure of a bomb or shell.

But as we notice, the usage of the term gastight is in an unclassified
document so there was obviously nothing “secret” about it, nothing
that was exepected to be in any manner incriminating. In fact what is
notable about all three of these so called “incriminating” documents
is that they are not classified.

And it is noted that no classified documents have ever been produced
that can be considered incriminating.

In the real world it is quite the opposite.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 17:55:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60662 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: even more types of specia
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:24:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:23:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:20:51 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> Except that HCN was never in the CW arsenal of any country in the
>> >> world and still in not.
>> >>
>> >> Beyond that, nice try.
>>
>> >Funny, then, that it has its own STANAG code (AC). Funny it’s listed
>> >in all standard texts on chemical weapons. Just because it hasn’t
>> >been stockpiled doesn’t mean they haven’t considered using it.
>>
>> > http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm
>>
>> > Hydrogen cyanide is usually included among the CW agents causing
>> > general poisoning. There is no confirmed information on this substance
>> > being used in chemical warfare. However, it has been reported that
>> > hydrogen cyanide was used by Iraq in the war against Iran and against
>> > the Kurds in northern Iraq during the 1980’s. Hydrogen cyanide has
>> > high toxicity and in sufficient concentrations it rapidly leads to
>> > death. During the Second World War, a form of hydrogen cyanide
>> > (Zyklon B) was used in the Nazi gas chambers.
>>
>> That is what I said. No evidence that is was ever in any nation’s
>> arsenal.
>>
>> Would you like to try again with better than an unsourced report?

>Sure. Mind you, you might want to try not cutting out the *other* two
>references I made so you can pretend they were not there because that
>makes you look like an idiot.

I cut nothing.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 17:55:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60664 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:23:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 23 5:27:12 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:53:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 22 Aug 96 18:09:00 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
>> Abels) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> >> I only control this newsgroup at the moment. Get used to it.
>>
>> >Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment and to
>> >reply to “RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn’t dare to answer.”?
>>
>> Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
>> I do control this Newsgroup. If you would first get them to agree
>> that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
>> over.

>A misconception. They had never met such an ill-tempered, whiny spamming
>brat before.

>You control nothing.

>Must a cancelbot be used to demonstrate this?

Would you really want to add that to the mailbombing abuse complaint?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 18:15:08 PDT 1996
Article: 60683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging: Theory
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:29:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:28:59 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 22:12:15 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>>[Dr. Kremer’s testimony about a gassing in Birkenau deleted]

>># sounds like more “geese.”

>>You don’t have a good sense of humor, untermench. Nazis
>>never do.

>># we’re supposed to believe the “eyewitness” accounts of
>># cruel and insensitive nazis, but the holohuggers told us before
>># the SS were so “sensitive” they could not fire a weapon.

>>This was, most certainly, not the *only* reason for using
>>gas chambers, but let’s pose a question here.

>>All the men in the B-17’s that turned German cities into
>>infernos. Burning women, children, babies alive.

>>How many of them could take all these babies and throw
>>them into the fire? Some, possibly, could; there are
>>sadists everywhere. But, in general, won’t you agree
>>that it takes a far smaller psychological toll to do it
>>in a “remote control” fashion? Just like the gassings?

>># I’d work on finding those missing ashes if I were you Keren.

>>Plenty found in Maidanek and Treblinka. Now, find the
>>corpses of the 30 million Soviets you claim that Stalin
>>killed, and the 2-3 million Germans who died after the
>>war, and the million German POW’s you claim the US killed
>>after the war (or is it 10 million by now). Where are the
>>corpses, untermench?

>”Plenty” of ashes were found he says.

>Yet they were never found in anywhere near the amount that would have been
>found if the Holohoax tale were true.

>Another “missing strand” in the tangled Holohoax web.

Actually focussing them on the “ashes” is a sucker game. Sooner or
later they will fixate on the ashes and then the coup.

The coup of course has already been posted and they have chosen to
ignore it but it will be fun to pull it.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 22:56:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60689 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:58:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 1:57:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:01:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Are you really so strange that you have bave not read
> ^^^^^^^^^
># the Sobran commentary?

>”have bave”?

>Matt, I was just making a conjecture: stele=Giwer.

>Both you and ‘stele’ are extremely stupid, obnoxious,
>racist, and cannot handle basic arithmetic (see his
>recent error, for instance, in calculating how many
>ashes would remain from 6 million victims).

>Moreover, your writing style is very much the same.
>You also use the very same expressions.

>Matt, look at your statement below. How many people can
>be so defective as to make a statement like that? How many
>errors like this can mother nature make?

And a PhD in CS who does not know what a spreadsheet is, is not a PhD
in CS.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 22:56:39 PDT 1996
Article: 60710 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer[email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: anti-anti-anti-semitism
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:41:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 4:40:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 16:13:46 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley wrote:

>>On 25 Aug 1996, Ken McVay OBC wrote:

>>> In article ,
>>> Marty Kelley wrote:

>>> Wait just a moment there, Kelly! Are you claiming that
>>> Mr. “Stele” hates Jews, just on the strength of his wish that
>>> six million of them get dead?

>>Who is this “Kelly” person you’re talking to? Are you stealing my vowels
>>and sending them to the vowel-deprived peoples of Eastern Europe? It’s

>Sh*t. You caught me. I confess. I sold 38,344,108.55 vowels to
>the former Soviet Union last month to finance a brain
>transplant for Matt Giwer. The $31.11 gained was not enough,
>alas for the sot, and he’s still idling on that pickled vacuum cleaner
>he calls a mind. I plan a special shipment of “a’s” to China
>next month to raise another $21.33, at which point I may have
>enough to get the job done. It depends upon the current price
>of Cherry Jack in Tampa, I’m afraid. Mr. “Stele” will just
>have to wait until October for his new brain. Judging from the
>output of the old one, he shouldn’t suffer.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

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From [email protected] Wed Aug 28 22:56:39 PDT 1996
Article: 60722 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The shining lights of holohuggery
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:22:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 3:21:45 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Danny Keren

David Dahlman

Alec Grynspan

Chuch Ferree

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 00:56:48 PDT 1996
Article: 60738 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news.vbc.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:18:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 3:17:31 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:04:38 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## moreover I try to stay away from PC’s as much as possible.

># No, you do not.

>Yes, I do. Hate them. They stink.

You are using one, oh PhD CS type.

># You are claiming to use one under a different name. C
># or J class?

>HP workstation. I said so. You want to call it a PC? Fine,
>call it a PC. Call it a holohugger. I don’t care.

Which class? They are HP designations.

># A CS PhD who thinks spreadsheets are related to word
># processing. It is truly amazing.

>Don’t know, don’t care. I give up. What’s a spreadsheet?

No PhD CS type would have to ask that question. It has been a classic
question of dense and sparse packed array representation for two
decades.

>So complain and have my Ph.D revoked. Make me pay back
>to Brown University the salary they paid me for 3 years.

You should complain and demand a rebate given that you know less on
the subject than someone who paid to be trained as a “computer
technician” on the subject.

>Matt, computer science is not about document processing
>and organizing or stuff like that.

Yes, spreadsheets are at the heart of computer science with array
packing and multiattribute array elements and optimal packing without
representing every attributed of every element. But then, what is the
optimum packing algorithm for a sparsely packed n-dimensional array?

If you have never heard of the issue, sue Brown. It cheated you.

># Unix? What to talk about it? Or perhaps explain what you
># do with Linux? You should have at least said C.

>Want to talk about Unix? Go ahead. What do you want to
>talk about? Great operating system IMHO.

>Linux? It simulates Unix on a PC. Great thing.

>Where you put C into all this I don’t know. Great programming
>language. You can use it with Unix or with Windows.

I am laughing at you. Those three paragraphs are a challenge to count
the errors. In fact it is very difficult to separate the numerous
errors in each of them.

># This is an example of why Nizkor is being deliberately
># and willfully misleading in pirating only one side of a
># discussion. Now put it back into the context of the
># temperature of a Polish winter in which it was cast.

>No mention of temperature was made in the article, as far
>as I recall. Moreover it makes no big difference, as the
>Peters-Rasch paper explicitly states that even at very
>low temperatures the evaporation of the HCN is hardly
>slowed down. Moreover, the gas chambers were pretty hot,
>after so many people were crammed into them.

Since you claimed to be able to “read the ascii” in the spreadsheet
file I posted you know that it referred only to the temperature given
in a specific graph I posted here.

Now when such a math major as yourself posts the variations based upon
the considerations of temperature you, the great math major, will have
a basis better than handwaving. As you know, since you “read between
the ascii”, that I compensated for displaced volume of the bodies.

You also know that I headed it with PRELIMINARY, Do not believe a
word of this yet.

Now since our great PhD CS guru makes a claim on temperature then our
great PhD CS will certainly take a couple of minutes out of his busy
schedule (considering that all of his posting is on company time if
the ‘workstation” claim is true) and spit out the variations with
temperature.

And do not forget, the worst will come AFTER you have firmly committed
to these numbers.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 00:56:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60742 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Humiliating Yale
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:07:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 5:06:03 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have never suggested I have humiliated Yale.

He is an attorney.

I have always talked best price.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:44 PDT 1996
Article: 60750 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:42:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 12:41:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:50:06 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:09:44 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >You failed to respond to this. This is the denier way.
>>
>> Individuals are not organizations. If you knew anything about
>> organizing people, in this case thousands of them, you would know the
>> effort required and the huge paper trail that would be left.
>>

>Like the one that exists?

2 or 3 questionable scraps of paper does not replace thousands of
clear and unambiguous documents.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:45 PDT 1996
Article: 60764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:46:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 3:45:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:55:09 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>
>> And a man who told me he did wetwork for the Mossad objects to being
>> described as a murderer for a Jewish organization.

>Perhaps it is because you are libelling the man. Get a clue, a grip, and a
>life – in that order.

He told me he did wetwork for the Mossad.

What does that make him in your pea brain?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:46 PDT 1996
Article: 60787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The T4 Euthansia Program
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:13:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 4:12:28 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:11:53 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>(from URL:http://www.mtsu.edu/%7Ebaustin/euthan.html)

>The T-4 Euthanasia Program

>In the fall of 1939 the German government established, under the
>Reich Chancellery, the Euthanasie Programme under the direction
>of Philip Bouhler and Dr. Karl Brandt. The headquarters of the
>operation were at Tiergartenstrasse 4, Berlin and the code name for
>the program was derived from that address — T-4.

>The choice of terminology for the program is consistent with the
>Nazis’ penchant for euphemism. Euthanasia typically means “mercy
>killing” and in the 1990’s in the United States and other western
>nations, it is synonymous with “physician-assisted suicide.” The kind
>of killing carried out through the T-4 program bears little
>resemblance to contemporary concepts of euthanasia.

You are either 15 and 30 years of age or you are making it up as you
go along. Euthansia, pre-Kavorkian, meant exactly mercy killing and
nothing else. The joke about doctors being gods is not new.

And your education sucks as the discussion of euthansia goes back to
Greece. The school of medicine founded by Hypocrites had a
prohibition of euthansia and abortion as the two factors that
separated it from other schools of medicine. There were many schools
of medicine.

>Hitler’s rise to power produced a completely new set of definitions.
>Guided by the over-riding principles of racial hygiene, racial purity,
>and national health, the Nazi regime seems fairly consitently commited
>to the removal of those unfit to live and produce inferior offspring.
>In 1935, the Nuremberg Laws provided for the forced
>sterilization of the unfit. Not only did Hitler have in mind such
>”inferior races” as Jews and Gypsies, he also included unfit Aryans —
>the mentally defective, severely handicapped, the incurably insane and
>the incurably sick.

And if we were now living under the Hillary Clinton health care plan
the plug would have been pulled on Christopher Reeve’s respirator a
couple weeks after his accident. There was no provision for long term
care and it was criminal to go outside the system. He would be dead
by government edict.

Now here is a fact. I had a very good friend. He had an operable
lung cancer but could not afford it and qualified under no government
program. He died of it.

Not close enough? About 20 years ago the US decided that people in
institutions could not be kept there against their will on the grounds
that keeping them there was the only way to assure they received the
drugs that kept them sane. They now comprise 1/3 to 1/2 of our street
people and they are not on their medication.

If you think they are all the same people you are very wrong. Most
have died on the streets. The new ones are given the right medication
and released as per the law just to die on the streets, in the cold,
in the heat, on drugs, wandering in front of cars.

So tell me, is it morally better to wash your hands? or to take
responsibility? when the results are the same?

You tell me. I am open to suggestions not iditot condemnation.

>To implement the euthanasia program, special carbon-monoxide chambers
>were constructed. According to Milton Meltzer:

>Between December 1939 and August 1941, about 50,000 to 60,000
>Germans–children and adults–were secretly killed by lethal
>injections or in gassing installations designed to look like shower
>stalls. It was a foretast of Auschwitz. The victims were taken from
>the medical institution and put to death…Never to Forget, New
>York:HarperCollins, 1976:131.

It is patently absurd to believe that there wre ever CO poisoning in
chambers.

>Robert J. Lifton makes the following assessment:
>
>Of the number of people killed in the T4 and the 14f13
>projects, the following statistics are usually given: adult mental
>patients from institutions, 80,000 to 100,000; children in
>institutions, 5,000; special action against Jews in institutions,
>1,000; concentration camp inmates transported to killing centers
>(14f13), 20,000 (Klee estimated that at the end of 1941, some 93,521
>`beds’ had been emptied for other uses [70,000 patients gassed, plus
>over 20,000 dead through starvation and medication] – in other words
>approximately one-third of the places for the mentally ill.) But these
>figures may well be too low; twice these numbers of people may have
>perished. The fact is that we do not know and shall
>probably never know. Elements of deception, imposed chaos, and the
>destruction of many records make anything like an accurate estimate
>impossible.

Without primary information, this is a worthless statement.

>The same is true concerning the total number of people murdered at
>specific killing centers. Hartheim victims of both ordinary
>`euthanasia’ and 14f13 are variously estimated from 20,000 (by Dr.
>Georg Renno, Lonauer’s successor as director), to 400,000 (by Franz
>Ziereis, the former commandant of Mauthausen, on his deathbed); 30,000
>is believed to be the best estimate. While these figures may seem
>unimpressive when placed next to the millions killed in the Final
>Solution, they represent the murder of shockingly large numbers of
>people — all in places characterized as hospitals.” (The Nazi
>Doctors” Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide. London:
>Papermac, 1986 (Reprinted 1990) p. 142).

Far from insignificant these numbers are huge given the German
population of 50 million. It is ten times any reasonable estimate for
the number that would be candidates for euthansia.

>Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm, “The Euthanasia Program,” The Encyclopedia of
>the Holocaust, Vol II, pp.452-454, informs us:

>The first large-scale euthanasia action seems to have taken
>place in Pomerania and estern Prussia shortly after the Polish
>campaign. During 1940, four euthanasia institutions went into
>operation: Grafeneck, in January, Brandenburg, in February, Hartheim,
>in May and Sonnenstein, in June. In the first half of the year, 8,765
>persons were gassed in these four institutions, three-quarters of them
>in May and June, a time when world attention was focused on the Battle
>of France. By the end of 1940, a total of 26,459 patients had been
>put to death, and in the first eight months of 1941, an additional
>35,049 were “disinfected.” These were the figures given by the
>accounting section of T4’s head office.

It is good he can make things up as well as the others. Gas chambers?
When a little cyanide in the food at worst or any of the thousands of
ways medical types know to kill people were not used? Give me a
break. And injection of air does it all.

Injecting air too hard for you? How about an overdose of any of
number of known lethal drugs, almost all of them, such as digitalis?

Of course not. Gas chambers had to be constructed.

>Robert E. Conot makes the important connection between the euthanasia
>program and the Final Solution:

>”Concurrent with the start-up of the euthanasia exterminations,
>Hitler authorized Himmler to establish a Race and Resettlement Office
>under the aegis of the SS. It was the Race and Resettlement Office
>that was to be responsible for the `racial’ purification of the Reich
>and the establishment of a Nordic empire. On October 17, 1939, Keitel
>summoned the victorious Wehrmacht generals for a lecture from the
>Fu”hrer, who ranted: `The increased severity of the racial struggle
>permits of no legal restrictions. Jews, Poles, and similar trash are
>to be cleared from the old and new Reich territories.’ Eight million
>Poles and 800,000 Jews were to be transported from the annexed portion
>of Poland into the government-general, and replaced by ethnic Germans
>repatriated from the Baltic lands, the Balkans, Russia, and the
>Italian Tyrol — even though, in large part, these Germans had
>emigrated generations before.

It is interesting that the order of 8 million Poles was completely
ignored.

>To `render harmless’ the Polish intelligensia, political and
>religious leaders, Jews, and anyone else who might, theoretically,
>rally an opposition, Heydrich established SS Einsatzgruppen (action
>groups). The Einsatzgruppen rampaged over the land, terrorizing and
>killing. Selections for execution were haphazard. Sometimes the
>commandos erred and included ethnic Germans whom they mistook for
>Jews. Shootings were carried out publicly to heighten the climate of
>fear. A Werhmacht intelligence officer reported: `Arrests were almost
>always accompanied by looting. Evacuations were carried out and blocks
>of houses were cleared at random, the inhabitants loaded into lorries
>at night, then taken to concentration camps. Actions against the Jews
>were carried out with the most serious excesses. A number of Jews were
>driven into a synagogue, where they had to crawl, singing, between the
>benches. Forced to take down their trousers, they were continously
>whipped by the SS men on their bare behinds. A Jew who out of fright
>dirtied himself was forced to smear the excrement onto the faces of
>the other Jews.

The sexual perversion of the author is clear. The author is gay and
is writing out his fantasies. And you believe this crap?

You are very strange.

>’After about fifty Jews, who had been used during the day to
>repair a bridge, finished their work in the evening, two SS men drove
>them into a synagogue and shot them all without any reason.’
>(Judgement At Nuremberg, New York: Harper & Row, 1983, pp
>211-212.

I have dozens of IMT quotes that are less idiotic than this one and
you have read them.

>The euthanasia program proved to be a valuable precursor to the
>atrocities which were to come in connection with the “Final Solution.”
>SS Major Christian Wirth was transferred from his duties at a
>euthanasia center to take over the supervision of Chelmo, the first of
>six extermination camps in Poland to become operational. His
>expertise in mass extermination seems to have been a major
>consideration. Wirth later served at Belzek, Treblinka and Sobibor.
>In 1940, Franz Stabgl was transferred from one of the euthanasia
>centers to Sobibor extermination camp where he served as
>camp commander. He performed so well there that he was ransferred in
>the summer of 1942 to Treblinka [Many years later, in 1970, Stangl was
>extradited from Brazil to West Germany to stand trial. He was found
>guilty of joint responsibility for the murder of 900,000 Jews]. After
>the Wannsee Conference in 1942, the staff of Euthanasie Program was
>transferred to Operation Reinhard.

There were many travesties of justice, i.e. all of them, after WW II.

To recount them is nothing new.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:46 PDT 1996
Article: 60789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!daily-planet.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: education exemption for copyright laws
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:31:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 6:30:34 AM CDT 1996

For what the fantasy life of the copyright infringing conspirators is
worth, the background of the education exemption is that it is
conducted in the classroom and in the classroom only.

Nothing at Nizkor satisfies the meaning of the exemption despite the
knowing lies of those who have posted otherwise.

But then, no need to respond, it is in the hands of the Canadian
authories at the moment for their determination.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:47 PDT 1996
Article: 60792 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:28:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]s4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:28:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 28 Aug 96 19:17:31, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Wednesday August >28 1996 04:18][*][0]*>

> MG> Yes, spreadsheets are at the heart of computer science with
> MG> array packing and multiattribute array elements and optimal
> MG> packing without representing every attributed of every element.
> MG> But then, what is the optimum packing algorithm for a sparsely
> MG> packed n-dimensional array?

> MG> If you have never heard of the issue, sue Brown. It cheated
> MG> you.

>Your ignorance is truly awsome, Matt. Is there anything that you do
>know?

As I said, only you would lie in support of the fake CS major Keren.
You posted timely and well, liar.

The mail bombs have ceased.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

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Information
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Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
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>++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you – Bozo or Clarabelle?
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
>|Internet: [email protected]

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:48 PDT 1996
Article: 60798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: defenders oif Keren
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:33:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:32:45 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

You are all so stupid as to believe that spreadsheets have something
to do with wordprocessing.

You are all ignorant and very stupid fools.

It is diffucult to imagine you fools can even find the big red switch
and chew gum at the same time.
We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60810 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack of the killer holohuggers
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 09:27:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 4:26:34 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:53:38 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> No matter what happens in this newsgroup, there have been no
>> mailbombings, no personal attacks against anyone supporting orthodox
>> holohuggery.

>Except that you’ve already done so.

>It was so pathetically inept as to be laughable.

>From you – it figures.

>> Yet there have been attacks upon those questioning holohuggery’s
>> orthodoxy. And they have been admitted and applauded in this
>> newsgroup.

>Still waiting for evidence, Matt.

>Please provide forensic analysis, a policy statement and physical
>evidence.

>> Who are the uncivil people here? The holohuggers. Our resident
>> muderer for a Jewish organization sends mail bombs and brags he
>> controls uunet.ca to get away with it. I was unaware the Canadians
>> had sold their souls to the Mossad to shut down criticism.

>Then you admit to being a resident murderer? Odd – there is no person
>here to fit your description!

>Who did you say controls uunet.ca? Who brags that he controls it?

>URL in DejaNews, please.

>Does your son know of your affliction? Is he making sure that you take
>your meds?

Your mail bombs have ceased.

=====

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60811 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 960826: No Gebrish!
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:03:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl11-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 28 2:02:26 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2777 alt.revisionism:60811

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:06:55, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:

>In article [email protected] (E. Zundel Repost) writes:

>>As many of my readers know, I spent half of my life in what you would
>>condemn as a “racist society” – first in Russia, then in Germany, and then
>>in South America. I have known life under four dictators: Stalin, Hitler,
>>Peron and Stroessner.

>She sounds so wistful for her good old days.

>A few bars of “Springtime for Hitler,” anybody?

Ah, yes, Mel Brooks, the man who made jokes about Jews being tortured
and got away with it. The only Jews to choose to play a villianous
murderer and get away with it.

What am image! Only in America — but for everyone.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 07:27:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60816 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: JEWS TO AVOID CHRISTIAN LABEL LAWS
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:26:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 6:25:37 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:60816 can.general:88758

On 27 Aug 1996 16:01:24 GMT, Yves Bérubé wrote:

>In article [email protected] writes:

>>Canadian Press reports today that Jews in Quebec, Canada may now avoid
>>the food labelling laws, requiring that labelling be in French.
>>
>>While Christians MUST have all food packages labelled in the French
>>language, l’office de la langue francaise says it has reached an
>>agreement with the local office of THE CANADIAN JEWISH CONGRESS.
>>
>>JEWS can now legally break the law for 40 days before, and 20 days after
>>Passover.
>>
>>So much for equality of law, as far as JEWS are concerned.
>>
>>And they wonder why people despise JEWS. It’s because they artrange to
>>break laws, that’s why.
>>
>Come on… If Christians had special holiday where they needed speciality food
>that is usually unavailable in Canada (which is the case for Kosher for
>passover food), they would also be allowed to “break the law”. You are
>comparing apple and oranges here!
>
>If you produced this food for the U.S. and exported it to Canada for only 60
>days during the year, would you be willing to pay the extra money to print
>bilingual packages, or would you simply say “fuck Canada” ?
>
>The charter of the human right specify that you have the fundamental right of
>religion… How can practice your religion if you can’t get what you need for
>your rites because of some restrictive law ?
>
>Somehow, I have a feeling you are a member of the Reform party, right ?

Crap!

What about people who need sacrificial virgins for their rites?

Do they get dispensations from the law?

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 10:51:05 PDT 1996
Article: 60821 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:38:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:38:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:19:33 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> You have read that information but you have no idea what you are
>> talking about else you would konw that you have. Alex G. has declared
>> it has been posted. Why did you miss it?

>URL please.

Fuck you.

I do not waste the time with idiot murderers for jewish intelligence
agencies.

Screw you, murderer. That is all you are and nothing better, a
murderer as to told me you were.

You ain’t shit more than a Jewish murderer for a Jewish organization.

That is all we ever exepected from a Jew.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 10:51:06 PDT 1996
Article: 60829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If no Holocaust, then what happened to all the Jews?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:56:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 6:55:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:01:45 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> If there was no Holocaust, then what happened to all the Jews?

> This is a question I have seen out here a number of times in
>callenging revisionistic postings.

> If there was no Holocaust, then what happened to all the Jews?

> The answer should be logically apparent. If no Holocaust, then
>the Jews of the story never where in the first place.

You bring up worse problem than that.

Obviously the men were given rifles and pointed towards the front.
The rest were evacuated to the east as was everyone who could not
handle a rifle.

We even have a woman returning from teh east who found a shed full of
pure Jewish soap.

Is there really anything this sounds like other than the myths of the
Greek gods?

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 10:51:07 PDT 1996
Article: 60830 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Trolling, trolling, over d’ocean blue…
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:15:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 6:14:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Aug 1996 15:07:33 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>[email protected] (a troll) writes:

>[snip]

>># No stories of jewish women cleaning stairs with
>># their tongues.

>Gee, gang, where have we heard this one before?

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
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We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 10:51:08 PDT 1996
Article: 60834 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer’s latest tactic.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:53:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:53:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:11:54 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> He told me he did wetwork for the Mossad.
>>
>> What does that make him in your pea brain?

>Someone being libelled, Matt.

Telling the truth is an absolute defense against libel. You told me
that on the phone. You discussed it in this conference.

If your retract your claims then I will deal with my statement of
those claims.

In the mean time I am doing no more than repeating what you told me
and acknowledged here.

>You’re both immature and transparent, Matt.

Rather you are an old fart and no one gives a rat’s ass about you old
farts.

>It’s just another of your obvious attempts to be able to bow out of here
>by pretending to be driven out.

>You tried Ken McVay – that failed.

>Then you tried me, after I mirrored a few copies of a message back to
>you.

The mailbombs have ceased.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

>You figured that if you could get me mad enough, I’d do something like
>deliver a *REAL* mailbomb and give you an excuse to escape this NG with
>a “they forced me out by harassing me” claim in the next place that you
>go.

You do not have the ability to create a real mailbomb. You are an
amateur pretending to knowledge. You are a worthless bluff. You are
a fraud. A meaningless piece of trivia on the internet.

You can not do what you claim. You are discardable.

>You don’t dare just leave quietly. That admits the loss to yourself.

>You don’t dare fake a triumphant farewell. People like me tend to laugh
>at you too much when we show up with archives in the next net you try
>this in.

>Why do you think that I stopped?

>Silly boy!

It it actually quite interesting that continue this nonsense when your
mailbombing stopped at the moment it was reported.

If you had balls you would continue the mail bombing and leave ti to
me continue to report it.

But you do not have the balls and you lost. You are just one more of
the usual scum that inhabits the internet. You lost.

Give it up. Grow up. Get a life.

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

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=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

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We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 12:21:24 PDT 1996
Article: 60877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:30:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:29:53 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 23:43:19 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>> <*[*] [*] [Matt Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>> <+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Wednesday August >> 28 1996 04:18][*][0]*>
>>
>> MG> Yes, spreadsheets are at the heart of computer science with
>> MG> array packing and multiattribute array elements and optimal
>> MG> packing without representing every attributed of every element.

>”Heart of computer science?”

>”Array packing?”

>”Multiattribute array elements?”

>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Ooops! ::clunk::

>Sorry, folks, fell off my chair there.

>Packed arrays have been around since (at least) Wirth gave us Pascal. As
>for “multiattribute” [sic] arrays? Well, K&R gave us those in C. They’re
>called arrays of structs and/or pointers. Of course, this all happened
>some time ago too. Like before spreadsheets were made for the PC.

>But the Giwer-boob forgot to mention all the other _really_ fundemental
>stuff like hashing, sorting, and searching algorithms. Not to mention core
>CS disciplines like compiler and OS design, numerical analysis, computer
>graphics, image processing etc. etc.

>You know, stuff like what Dr. Keren does: Computer Science.

>> MG> But then, what is the optimum packing algorithm for a sparsely
>> MG> packed n-dimensional array?

>Gee, Giwer-boob, do YOU know? And, which, spreadsheet(s) do this?

>> MG> If you have never heard of the issue, sue Brown. It cheated
>> MG> you.

>More like try not falling off one’s chair in a fit of laughter at the
>Giwer-boob’s drivel….

>> Your ignorance is truly awsome, Matt. Is there anything that you do
>> know?

>”Shaken, not stirred?” Nahhh. More like: “Bottoms up! I’l get you yet you
>little worm!”

>Mark

>——————————————————————————–
>”Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
>right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”

>– Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
>——————————————————————————–

Beyond that, it is good that you admit Keren thinks that spreadsheets
are wordprocessors.

It is also good to see that you are equally ignorant.
We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Thu Aug 29 14:14:11 PDT 1996
Article: 60890 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!tera.mcom.com!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:28:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 7:28:03 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:02:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

># Which class? They are HP designations.

>It’s a workstation, Matt. That’s how people call it.
>Not a PC. Running the “model” command on it gives:
>9000/770/J210. Hope you’re happy.

What an idiot. No idea about the HP like of workstations but a PhD
nevertheless.

># No PhD CS type would have to ask that question. It has
># been a classic question of dense and sparse packed array
># representation for two decades.

>To the best of my knowledge, spreadsheets are document
>organizing tools, Matt. I’m not interested in this kind
>of stuff. I use Unix, and I program in C, matlab, X-maple.
>To write papers, I use Latex.

The best of your knowledge means you are not involved in any aspect of
CS whatsoever, at any degree level.

>Your knowledge of science is so superficial that you
>cannot tell apart the tools and the core of the matter.

You have shot yourself in the foot with this one. Good luck finding
anyone to support your (other then AG who is an idiot) after this one.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:17 PDT 1996
Article: 60930 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Egyptians
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:41:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 29 6:40:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 27 Aug 1996 21:15:46 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>
>>
>> After a number of days wondering around in the high plains
>>wilderness, one of which was Yellowstone Park, Moran returns with
>>tales from the woods.

>> Moran was ‘dining out’ in the vicinity of a noted basalt flow
>>when in drove a family of one wife, husband and two kids, one boy and
>>one girl.

>> Moran had spotted them at another attraction and recognized them
>>as Jewish. The father looked Jewish and the male child, about nine,
>>had this hard confrontational expression on his face which Moran had
>>noticed on Hebrew kids before. The father had a belligerent attitude
>>as he plowed past the roving sightseers, seemingly in a rush to get it
>>over with. You generally don’t see Jews out in a format like that,
>>even one structured like Yellowstone Park.

>> Anyway, as Moran squatted gnawing on a bone by the basalt flow,
>>in drives the family and the quartet gets out. The father, with the
>>son following, head for the formation when the father ask Moran if
>>there is a path up to the top. Moran informed them there wasn’t but
>>they could blaze one around the end or take a path going down along
>>side the river. The father lurched in that direction with the kid
>>tagging along.

>> After about ten minutes, and while Moran was finishing up gnawing
>>on the bone, the mother walked over and ask Moran why the rocks had
>>the shape they did. They were an ideal example of columnar jointing
>>and Moran informed the lady it was basalt. She not hearing the ‘ba’ in
>>the basalt, ask amazed like, “Salt?” Moran reiterated, “Basalt”. They
>>lady ask how come they’re shaped like that and Moran told her it was
>>from the cooling process causing a certain molecular arrangement of
>>crystals and the subsequent eroding away of the overlying pressure
>>that caused the effect.

>> Moran included that it was a wonder that the “Sheepeater” Indians
>>that hung around there in days of old didn’t take to constructing
>>something from the rocks that had fallen away, since they had a
>>certain geometric conformity in shape.

>> The lady offered that maybe it was because they were too hard.

>> Moran mentioned that the Egyptians did some remarkable things
>>with basalt and possibly it was the sub-base to the pyramids to which
>>they fitted the outer smooth sedimentary rocks, now mostly worn away
>>by thousands of years of erosion.

>> The lady said something about “Yea, look who they had to build
>>them.” Moran ask, “Who was that?”. She said “Jewish slaves”. Moran
>>mentioned that many people had slaves in those days, even Israel, and
>>that it was mentioned in their Bible. Moran was hoping for a little
>>discussion, seeing maybe he could further liberate the lady from her
>>ill perceptions of personal persecution, but she became horrified at
>>the truth and just scurried back to her car.

>> In a moment or two the father and the son emerged from their
>>short hike and they left. As Moran returned to his squatting and
>>gnawing he watched the foursome drive away and wondered if the lady
>>would ever come to discuss her encounter with Moran in the woods.

>> As Moran ‘washed’ his hands by rubbing them in the dust on the
>>ground, he thought a bit more about the incident. He thought of how
>>the Jews think they are the only ones who were ever persecuted. He
>>also thought how it is evident that any connection between the Jews of
>>today and those of when the pyramids were built would be far diluted.

>> Moran also thought how any record of the Jews really only goes
>>back to about 1200 BC, a couple of thousand years after the pyramids
>>were built, and no one can say exactly who participated in their
>>construction.

>> As Moran wiped away the dust on his pants, he thought, ‘It’s
>>really a sorry thing to rue the day of a thousand years ago, and
>>especially since they don’t have the slightest proof to show they are
>>in fact rueing a reality.

>> The day was drawing short and Moran had to think about finding a
>>cave to sleep in, but before he left he turned to look at the mighty
>>formation of hardened ages old rock, once solid, formidable, now
>>breaking away to collapse as rubble and then on to grains, in time
>>washed away by the streams and rivers.

>evil Egyptians,

>I think the jewish claim about the pyramids is yet -another- hoax.

Of course it is. There is not one mention in their own writings of
the pyramids. It it totally absurd.

>The jewish aversion to manual labor is proverbial.

Going back far enough, everyone was manual.

>The nazis tried to change that, in the labor camps.

>Maybe that is why the labor camps were melodramatically called “death
>camps” by the -millions- of people who survived them: the thought of
>doing manual labor was simply horrifying to them.

The issue is rather that the Hebrews took their slaves with them, in
the story at least.

The larger issue is that all of Exodus is pure fantasy and never
happened nor did Moses exist nor is there any foundation whatsoever
for Judaism in any form.

It is a human fantasy and anyone who believes in it is an idiot.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:18 PDT 1996
Article: 60943 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ridicule is all the holohuggers have
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 11:58:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 25 4:56:55 AM PDT 1996

On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:06:02 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>[snip]

>> >I guess it all boils down to one thing: you are an idiot.
>>
>> >[Nazi drivel deleted]
>>
>> no, it’s called “the Allies won the war.”
>>
>> you shouldn’t be so gullible McFee

>Herr, Wankermeister, he isn’t gullible at all. He has _you_ pegged
>correctly for as an idiot….

>Mark

>——————————————————————————–
>”Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
>right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”

>– Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
>——————————————————————————–

This pretend ridicule of being the master Peg Bundy is amusing but it
is difficult to see what the pretend contribution to an honest
discussion of the material is.

But then, ridicule is all the holohuggers have on their side as the
facts have deserted them.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:19 PDT 1996
Article: 60989 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:24:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:23:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:17:09 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> And a PhD in CS who does not know what a spreadsheet is, is not a PhD
>> in CS.

>You obviously don’t know much about Computer Science or what having a
>PhD means.

>Pssst! Concordia, Montreal, 1978.

Looks like there are two of you who are equally ignorant.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:20 PDT 1996
Article: 60992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!news.flora.ottawa.on.ca!ki.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,can.politics,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DEATH TO XTIAN SLIME (WAS Re: Where have all the racists gone? Griswold, LA Times story
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:21:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:20:40 AM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41333 alt.politics.nationalism.white:28015 can.politics:68202 alt.discrimination:52800 alt.revisionism:60992

On Thu, 29 Aug 1996 02:21:57 GMT, [email protected] (Ursus Major)
wrote:

>Jim Vassallo wrote:

>>Jean A Robards wrote:
>>
>>(Snip of irrelevant stuff Jim doesn’t want to talk about)
>>
>>>
>>> Like YEAH FUCKING RIGHT.Christians are the most blood thirst fuckers
>>> around…killing supposed ‘heathen non belivers” and the such.The
>>> others are the same,except maybe the Buddists.
>>
>>I wish that was true. I could go on a holy crusade with God at my side and kill all
>>sorts of dumb freaks like yourself. Unfortunately, it isn’t. Read a book once and
>>awhile, you might just learn something.

>Why don’t YOU practice what you preach? I suggest you start with an
>unbiased book on “Witchomania”: the madness which ran through
>Europe for over 200 years, in which hundreds of thousands of people
>–perhaps over a million!–were brutally executed as “witches,” after
>being subjected to tortures that would get you to confess to ANYTHING!
> It wasn’t a Catholic show or a Protestant one: both sides tried to
>out do each other as to how many “witches” they could burn. It even
>spread to New England, where several were hanged and one poor devil
>was pressed to death for refusing to enter a plea. (A board was placed
>on his chest, and more and more weights added until he suffocated.)
>Why did he refuse to enter a plea? Being being a witch or sorcerer was
>a felony, and if convicted, all of one’s property was confiscated. As
>during Witchomania, to be CHARGED was to be CONVICTED, he at least
>saved something for his family.

>What other “religion”–anywhere, at any time in history–has come up
>with something like that? And Witchomania was in full flower, while
>people like Johannes Kepler and Galilleo were laying the foundation
>for modern science.

What other religion? I thought there was one that had the injunction,
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Details of the methods have
not survived.

>Christianity isn’t a religion; it’s a MENTAL ABBERATION!

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:21 PDT 1996
Article: 60993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:26:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 2:26:03 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 20:55:19 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

It is good that you continue to post from this holohugging whacko.

>On 27 Aug 1996 23:18:10 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>We have seen that the Nazi’s elaborate train/camp scheme along with
>>numerous documentation describing the camps as labor camps (along with

>[The only thing Kurt has seen is the bottom of the current bottle]

>”The T-4 experts also fathered the killings of “non-Aryans” in the
>German concentration camps, known under the code name
>”Sonderbehandlung [special treatment] 14 f 13.” Bouhler supplied
>Himmler with “experts” to examine camp inmates – Jews and non-Aryan
>Germans – who became too sick to work. In practice, the “race” or the
>political records of the victims sufficed for a murder decision. At
>first the victims were transferred to the “euthansia” stations to be
>killed, but as the waiting lines grew longer, every concentration camp
>installed a gas chamber of its own. Before the Final Solution became
>operative, thousands of Jews were murdered under the auspices of 14 f
>13.

>Most of the manpower and even some of the appartus of T-4 was
>transferred to the Final Solution in a time sequence of such exquisite
>precision as to suggest that Hitler yielded T-4 in preference to the
>Final Solution. Globocnik, in charge of the annihilation of the Jews
>in the Generalgouvernement (code name: Operation Reinhard), reported
>that Hitler’s provate chancellery had provided ninety-two men to Staff
>Operation Reinhard. One of these was Christian Wirth, formerly chief
>of criminal police in Stuttgart, who was transferred from Brandenburg
>to become Globocnik’s top aide. Another was SA-Oberfuhrer Oldenburg
>who went from Hitler’s private chancellery to the T-4 program to
>Globocnik. Treblinka’s first director was Dr. Irmfried Eberl, also
>from Brandenburg and the nucleus of the first operative death camp at
>Chelmno was wormed from a “Euthanasia Commando” in Prussia. Finally,
>in a burts of frugality, some of the gas chambers in the T-4 program
>were dismantled, shipped to, and ressembled at Belzec, Majdanek, and
>Treblinka.

>Dawidowicz, Lucy S. The War Against the Jews. New York. 1975
>p 134

It is also of interest that nothing about these “chambers” matches any
description of anything at Treblinka or any place else.

>Gee, Kurt, isn’t it amazing how we find all these names associated
>with the T-4 operation also associated with Aktion Reinhard? Just a
>coincidence, I guess. It couldn’t possibly be because they had become
>experts in gassing from killing their own helpless and innocents,
>could it?

>This is yet another example of blowing the old ‘no gas chambers in the
>Reich’ idiocy all to hell.

The “fallacy” is supported by the SWC who at least has the sense not
to support the stupid claims of people like this author.

On what grounds to you believe this fatbroad is not making it up?
After all, it sells books. And there is always a market as Barnum
noted.

=====

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:21 PDT 1996
Article: 60994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!zdc-e!super.zippo.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack of the Giwerdly Lie-n
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:39:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 1:38:31 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 28 Aug 1996 11:37:11 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Matt
>>Giwer) writes:

>>:> No matter what happens in this newsgroup, there have been no
>>:>mailbombings, no personal attacks against anyone supporting orthodox
>>:>holohuggery.

>>Another lie from the very person who tried to mailbomb Mr. McVay.

>>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

>Isn’t it interesting, watching the lies, when they are so
>readily dealt with? You have to love the effect it has upon
>whatever shreds of credibility remain to him.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
Information.
All INTERNET Domain, IP Network Number, and ASN records are kept in
the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:22 PDT 1996
Article: 60997 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: real showerheads
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:56:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 1:55:55 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

Guess what? I found a gas chamber in the old Reich. I have also
found powdered cyanide.

“Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling-
the dummy shower heads. In the engineers’ room- the intake and outlet
pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve
to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal
smoke. From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the
crematory.”

IMT XXX – p.470.

Amazing what you can find if you look around.

And holohuggers are going to believe it.

=====

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61002 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Seekers” and the effect of name-calling
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:16:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:15:51 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Aug 1996 05:05:17 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>You ever noticed the frequency and amount of name-calling that
>holocausters do on alt.revisionism (the same little clique of them that
>is)?

>And then compare it with that done by revisionists? (little if any, and
>typically only in response to repeated holocauster attacks).

>Unprovoked name-calling is both childish and unseemly.

It is all they have. They lack the education to critically review
their holohuggery.

>Many holocausters also do not realize that when they name-call they remove
>nearly all dignity from themselves. This is a fact completely lost to the
>holocausters.

Dignity in a holohugger? Shirley, you jest.

>What can be said for people who not only lack dignity but also have no
>concern for this fact?

>One actually feels embarrassed for the holocausters.

>One who repeatedly attacks another with vulgar name-calling has proven
>himself infra dig.

>The Holocaust Tale has so many holes in it that, like swiss cheese, it is
>more holes than cheese. Holocausters seem like shrill little tyrants,
>calling other people epithets much as little schoolchildren do, as they
>try to protect their little crumbling Holocaust Tale from being probed.

And, like schoolchildren, they actually expect it work. It only has
weight in their mutual admiration society. It is gross immaturity.

>This fact is not lost on “The Seekers.”

>”The Seekers” are the sort of people looking for the truth, and who are
>also sensitive to the various tactics human beings use when they want to
>conceal something or silence the questioning of it.

>”The Seekers” raise an eyebrow when they see a group of people responding
>to scrutiny of their Tale with name-calling, and elsewhere with
>”thoughtcrime laws” outlawing any questioning of it. The Seekers are the
>sort of people who will always be interested in finding out what is behind
>all the ad hominem and thought prohibition.

>More “Seekers” have been alerted to the falsity of the Holohoax Lie this
>way then probably anything else.

And do not forget folks like McFly who announce that they will support
laws that violate the 1st Amendment right of free speech and have thus
lost the right to call themselves Americans.

>The holocausters have all manner of anomalous theories to try to plug the
>many holes in the Holohoax Tale. They have the media, the government,
>academia, jewish-money power, and in some places where questioning is
>punished by fine or jail, even the law — on their side.

>In other words, the holocausters have all the power imaginable in which to
>conceal their Lie.

>But the holocausters’ name calling still gives them away and “The Seekers”
>will always detect this.

>Holohoax: thy days are numbered

Hardly 20 more years until it is politely acknowledged only in regard
to “feelings” rather than fact.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61003 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:52:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:51:31 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Aug 1996 14:49:19 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> On 24 Aug 96 18:39:34 GMT, [email protected] (Annie Alpert) wrote:
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> >[email protected] says…
>> >>whatever it was Sara it couldn’t have been as dumb as the
>> >claim that nazis>who were supposedly trying to exterminate jews
>> >had to use gas chambers>instead of guns because the nazis were
>> >simply “too sensitive” to fire>their weapons.
>> >Wouldn’t YOU have a problem with shooting naked, sobbing women
>> >and babies with machine guns?
>> >No?
>> >Oh.
>> Given that the story has it that OVER 3 million men, women and
>> children were shot why do you think there would suddenly be a problem
>> with shooting another 2 million or so?
>> Or do you have a different story to promote?
>>
>Don’t you do ANY research before you hit the reply buttom, Matt?
>or were you drinking at the terminal again? Raul Hilberg, Destruciton of
>the European Jewry, p 338, TABLE B1 Deaths by Cause:

>snip rest of table (look it up yourself)

>Open Air shootings: Einsatzgruppen, Higher SS and Police
>Leanders, Romonaian and German armies in mobile
>operations, shootingsin Galacia during deportations;
>killings of pows and shootings in Serbia and elsewhere
> Over 1,300,000

>snip

>Total 5,100,000

>I didn’t even have to break a sweat looking this one
>up, Matt.
>———————————————————————–
>This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News:
> http://www.dejanews.com/ [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!]

I have interest in novelists. I note very clearly that the total
number of Jews has been on the order of 6 million since 1945. I note
that Auschwitz was reduced by 3 million and none of the other camps
were increased to result in the same total.

The only people left to account for the 6 million total are the
Einsatzgruppen.

Therefore, they must have killed the additional 3 million.

Starting at your desired number of 1.3 million and adding 3 million I
come up wiht 4.3 million that they killed.

Is this addition to complex for you?

Or do you have another place where the 3 million disappeared to?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61009 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:46:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 2:45:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:28:41 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>Yet again, our 163-IQ’ed “leading revisionist”, Matt Giwer,
>proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
>nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) posted:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## A high concentration of CO can
>## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
>## concentration of HCN will kill them.

># There is none from a diesel engine. Even you
># should know that.

>”The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis”, by
>J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
>Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

>Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
>engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
>ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
>exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
>which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
>on page 99).

A person who should know what a spreadsheet problem is but does not
can not be expected to comprehend what you are posting.

>## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
>## such as NO2. Also, it’s easy to tune the engine so
>## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
>## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

># Not a diesel.

>Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
>table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he’s totally wrong
>about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is
>practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios
>(say, 0.056) there’s only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the
>exhaust.

>Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
>amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
>sharply as the ratio is increased.

>Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
>that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
>goes to show that either they’re lying, or that
>they haven’t got the foggiest idea of what they’re
>talking about.

>The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
>clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
>tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.

We have been over this part of your education before.

You need to learn what a spreadsheet is first.

It is difficult to determine what your background really is. A
teenager would know what a spreadsheet is.

You are certainly not what you claim.

=====

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:25 PDT 1996
Article: 61010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:03:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:02:55 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:83056 alt.revisionism:61010

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:20:49 -0800, [email protected] (Kathleen
Mulhern) wrote:

>There has been a great deal of backlash against the Shoah Foundation, a
>project founded by Steven Spielberg after his experience filming
>”Schindler’s List.” I thought an explanation from the Shoah Foundation’s
>own web page would be a good thing to publish, so people know exactly what
>they’re bitching about:
>
>__________________________________________________________________________

>The Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation, based in Los Angeles
>with regional offices all over the world, is dedicated to finding and
>interviewing Holocaust survivors in order to
>preserve the memory of what happened to so many innocent victims during
>World War II. Steven Spielberg created this non-profit organization in
>hopes of establishing the largest library of
>Holocaust survivor testimonies ever recorded.

>Spielberg conceived of this mammoth project while working on his
>Oscar®-winning film Schindler’s List. He feared the images and the faces
>of the Holocaust survivors would be lost with time.
>”The majority of Holocaust survivors are in their 70s and 80s. The window
>for capturing their testimonies is closing fast,” Spielberg said. “It is
>essential that we see their faces, hear their voices
>and understand that the horrendous events of the Holocaust happened to
>people and were committed by people.”

>Groundbreaking online technology will bring over 100,000 hours of survivor
>testimony to schools, libraries, museums and other educational
>institutions. Cataloguing methodology developed for
>the project will allow researchers to search the archive by key words,
>biographical information or other criteria.

>The Foundation has already conducted thousands of interviews, but the
>scope of the project extends well into the future. Over the next three
>years, the Foundation will continue to conduct
>interviews. Jewish communities Holocaust organizations around the world
>have joined together to support the project and reach out to the survivor
>community, urging participation.

>Interviews are conducted in the language most comfortable for the survivor
>in the person’s home or an area of the survivor’s choosing. At the end of
>the interview, photographs, letters and artifacts
>are documented, and other family members are invited to appear on-camera
>to bring the Holocaust survivor’s story to a full circle.
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________

>This project will be essential for teaching people of the horrors of the
>Holocaust. It will also, I hope, silence the people who are bereft of
>historical knowledge, common sense, intelligence and, quite frankly, a
>brain. These people continue to deny that this atrocity happened.
>However, with the Shoah Visual History Foundation and its eye-witness
>interviews, I would love to see just one of the deniers watch the
>testimony one of the brave souls who survived one of the worst mass
>murders in history and still say that it just didn’t happen. With the
>testimony of people who have actually “been there, done that and the
>tattoo proves it,” a new generation of people can arm themselves against
>vicious anti-Semitism with simple fact. The people captured on film
>forever will continue to tell their stories. They were there and they saw
>it all. The Holocaust deniers ultimately fail in their ignorance and
>wallow in their disease called anti-Semitism. Now with the Shoah Visual
>History Foundation, the deniers can be made to look even stupider as they
>continue to blather on about the “Holo-hoax” while at the same time
>listening to actual, eye-witness testimony.

>–
>[email protected]
>”It’s not so much the apocolypse as it is the humidity.”
> -Joel Hodgson

As you fail to understand the way memory works, you fail to realize
that a critical analysis of these stories will laugh the current ideas
about the holocaust out of existence.

It is impossible for it to be otherwise. The way memory works does
not change.

The window of opportunity for collecting eyewitness accounts in fact
closed in 1946 at the latest. At this late date, all testimony is
hopelessly corrupted.

And the corrupted testimony will be the death of the Shoah as you
think you know it. Because of the way memory works the testimony has
to be corrupted. It has to be outrageously false.

And it is worse than that. It is going to be obvious very early on
that that is the problem with what they are collecting. The only way
to prevent the obvious from being known is to make only selected
excerpts available.

It will be like the man who was gassed six times and survived. They
can not let stories like that see the light of day.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 08:40:26 PDT 1996
Article: 61021 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet-feed1!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:15:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 4:14:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Aug 1996 16:01 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison writes…
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>> You are all so stupid as to believe that spreadsheets have something
>>> to do with wordprocessing.
>>>
>>> You are all ignorant and very stupid fools.
>>
>>Obviously Giwer has never seen any recent incarnation of the big word processing
>>and spreadsheet packages.

> Most of the recent work merging document processing applications has
> happened since Giwer was uncerimoniously retired from work due to his
> alleged drinking problems. He may not have been sober long enough
> since to keep up with recent software developments.

Yes, you are an idiot and a deliberate liar to take this position.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61061 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer megalomania & Adolf Hitler
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:31:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:31:12 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Aug 1996 08:17:04 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) asks the
>question:

>[irrelevant, off-topic trolling deleted]

>> What sort of mental
>> illness causes a person to continually pick fights on topics he knows
>> others are expert in?

>The same perverse megalomania, perhaps, that infected Adolf
>Hitler. Hitler, as the OSS psychological profile tells us,
>considered himself to be an expert in absolutely everything,
>and rejected any and all criticism or correction.

>Unlike Hitler, of course, the Troll hasn’t yet begun referring
>to himself as the Christ – but it’s only a matter of time,
>perhaps, until he does.

>Hitler’s true worth can be seen in his belief that his
>mausoleum would become the “mecca of Germany.” Hitler never
>did get to build his monument to the ultimate vulgarity –
>perhaps the Troll is building his here, a piece at a time, and
>he will one day take perverse delight in reading such phrases
>as “don’t giwer me, you drunken sot.”

>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/oss-profile-01.html

>> Note the troll insults but does not demonstrate the errors.

>That is, of course, simply because…

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
>URL http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.9607
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Remember John Hron
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/

Whois Ken McVay?

===

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet
Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

The following was deleted from nic.ddn.mil some time between 17 July
1996 and 19 August 1996. However, as of 19 August 1996 the email
address still worked. It was originally captured on 17 July 1996. It
disppeared just prior to a 256 copy mailbomb from gryn.org saying that
it was false information. The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
intelligence.

===

McVay, Ken (KM214)
1B Systems Management Limited
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo, British Columbia V9S 1G7
CA

(604) 758-2499

[email protected]

Record last updated on 02-Apr-96.

Please be advised that this whois server only contains DOD
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the Internet Registry, RS.INTERNIC.NET.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61062 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:29:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:28:38 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Aug 1996 10:46 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

> Matt Giwer has a few too many sips and once again dives in well over
> his head in debating minutia with experts in a given field…

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:02:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>># Which class? They are HP designations.
>>
>>>It’s a workstation, Matt. That’s how people call it.
>>>Not a PC. Running the “model” command on it gives:
>>>9000/770/J210. Hope you’re happy.
>>
>> What an idiot. No idea about the HP like of workstations but a PhD
>>nevertheless.

> First, Dr. Keren writes coherent sentences. Matt, you really need to
> lay off the keyboard when you are not sober. Have you been skipping
> your AA metings again?

> Second, do you not recognize the HP Workstation model number Dr. Keren
> gave you?

> Third, do you still insist this Workstation is a PC? If so, why?
> (Your answer ought to be amusing – make sure to discuss RISC and CISC
> as part of it, OK?)

Give it up. He is a fraud. HP does have a website. Check it out and
compare the answer to my question. Then ask him who fed him that
instead of giving the series.

>>># No PhD CS type would have to ask that question. It has
>>># been a classic question of dense and sparse packed array
>>># representation for two decades.
>>
>>>To the best of my knowledge, spreadsheets are document
>>>organizing tools, Matt. I’m not interested in this kind
>>>of stuff. I use Unix, and I program in C, matlab, X-maple.
>>>To write papers, I use Latex.
>>
>> The best of your knowledge means you are not involved in any aspect of
>>CS whatsoever, at any degree level.

>Typical Giwer obsfucation. Of course Dr. Keren does CS work, he simply
> does not build spreadsheets.

He does not know what they are are he said they were related to word
processing. You can read of course. You will also continue to defend
a fellow holohugger no matter how obvious it is.

Pretend you are conducting an interview. And that was an answer. I
would hold that against an HS only graduate applying for a computer
job.

Any person who really knows about CS
> knows that building spreadsheets is in the order of magnitude of one
> percent of all of CS (maybe less).

Complete and total ignorance of what they are is not. It is like like
someone applying for a job in radio saying the Long John Nebel was a
baseball player.

> Giwer doesn’t seem to understand the difference between CS and MIS

Obviously you do not.

>>>Your knowledge of science is so superficial that you
>>>cannot tell apart the tools and the core of the matter.
>>
>> You have shot yourself in the foot with this one. Good luck finding
>>anyone to support your (other then AG who is an idiot) after this one.

> I will lay my PhD in MIS behind Dr. Keren here and state he has a much
> better idea of what he is talking about than the troll does.

Although your defense of the clown lacks spirit it also lacks a basis
in fact, making it totally worthless.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:10 PDT 1996
Article: 61064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.goodnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:58:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 2:57:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:13:51 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> You left out that part. That is you deliberately left out the lack of
>> >> evidence of anyone murdered. But you know that.
>>
>> >You mean like rooms with cyanide traces on the walls that were designed
>> >with showerheads that were not connected to a water system next to a
>> >series of furnaces meant to burn a lot of people?
>>
>> Showerheads and missing copper pipe proves that every abandoned
>> building in the US was used for gassing. We have been over this. Or
>> did you forget?

>And how many of these buildings were *designed* to have showerheads
>but no piping to them?

>You really are loosing it, aren’t you?

As a matter of fact, you are not reading the newsgroup. There were
several claims that they were designed that way but even after
questioning no one posted any evidence of such a design.

Making up an explanation is not the same as having evidence for the
validity of the explanation.

So as it stands there is no evidence that any buildings were designed
with false showerheads. Produce the drawings if you believe
otherwise.

>> >You mean like eyewitness testimony not only from prisoners but the
>> >perpetrators themselves that is supported by local residents who noted
>> >all the people going in and not a whole lot coming out?
>>
>> If testimony and confession are proof them the Devil exists and there
>> are witches and there are women who have borne the children of aliens.
>> (The truth is out there, Moulder.)

>If you happen to have a signed statement from His Badness and some aliens
>I would grant you an analogy but you don’t so I won’t.

We have nothing from the head man in Germany either. We do have the
confession of the minions of both.

>By the by, a Wiccan friend of mind would insist that there are witches,
>but that is neither here nor there.

Your friend is an idiot.

>> >You mean like population data that show several million people sort
>> >of missing?
>>
>> 31 million of them. Want to tell me how you know what fraction were
>> gassed?

>No no no, not dead, *missing*. If the Nazis didn’t kill the Jews, where
>are they now?

Who knows? That is why they are called missing along with the 25
million who were untraceable after the war. Where are the other 25
million people?

Those 31 million are almost all civilians and include your missing
Jews. The “gassed” were never traced to the camps. But you know that.

>> I am talking about physical evidence.
>>
>> Physical evidence is something Jews only understand and demand when
>> someone claims Jews control the media and banks and such. When it has
>> to do with gassing, things on the order of the Protocols of the Elders
>> of Zion are damning.

>Giwer, you wouldn’t know physical evidence if someone rammed it up your ass
>and connected it to a thirty amp generator.

Your kinky sex ideas are not of interest.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61065 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.goodnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:04:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:03:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:32:55 -0700, Brian Harmon
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:47:59 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:

>[snip snip snip]

>> >> You left out that part. That is you deliberately left out the lack of
>> >> evidence of anyone murdered. But you know that.
>>
>> >You mean like rooms with cyanide traces on the walls that were designed
>> >with showerheads that were not connected to a water system next to a
>> >series of furnaces meant to burn a lot of people?
>>
>> Showerheads and missing copper pipe proves that every abandoned
>> building in the US was used for gassing. We have been over this. Or
>> did you forget?

>Except that ‘every abandoned building in the US’ doesn’t have very
>telltale cyanide traces on the walls, do they?

They have insecticide traces and cyanide was used as an insecticide.
So what is your point?

>And does ‘every abandoned US building’ have _dummy_ showerheads that
>were designed to make the building _look_ like a shower when in fact
>it was far more sinister?

>Come on Matt, you’re smoking something rich on this one.

Despite my asking several times no one has produced the building
drawings showing tbey were designed into the building.

BTW: Which building(s) do you think you are talking about? Do you
really mean Dachau?

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 61068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging: Theory
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:10:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 3:10:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:34:24 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>On 27 Aug 1996 22:12:15 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

>>Yet they were never found in anywhere near the amount that would have been
>>found if the Holohoax tale were true.

>Not using _your_ mathmatics you mathmatical whiz kid. How many tons of
>ashes did you say that would be, Kurt? Maybe I’ll post that one again
>also for the edification of the lurkers.

>I hope you stick around, Kurt. You are making the case better than any
>’anti-racist.’

The correct amount of missing material is as follows.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: How many tons of bone fragments?
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 02:31:58 GMT

http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml

Dec 26, 1995 @
Q. What’s left after a body is cremated? It’s ash, but what size are
the
pieces? Are they fine, like
dust, or larger? Can you still see pieces of bone or teeth?

A. Tony, After the cremation process is complete, all that is left is
very brittle bone fragments.
Many of the bones are still distinguishable although not fully in
tact.
Technically, there are no
ashes left at all but the term “ashes” is used to describe what is
referred to as cremated remains
or cremains. The pieces of bone fragments are then processed into a
fine
powder and placed in
the urn selected. What remains after the cremation process is
approximately 5 to 7 pounnds of
cremated remains.

800,000 at Treblinka x 5 lbs = 4,000,000 lbs = 2000 tons of bone
fragments missing. Buried in a 5 acre area. 400 tons of bone
fragments
per acre, approximately 15 pounds of bone fragments per square foot.

1,200,000 at Auschwitz. 3000 tons of bone fragments capable of
passing
through a 1 centimeter mesh.

My thank again to Van Alstine for this website.

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 14:13:12 PDT 1996
Article: 61092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If no Holocaust, then what happened to all the Jews?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:50:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 1:50:08 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:31:27 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>> moran) wrote:
>>

>> > The answer should be logically apparent. If no Holocaust, then
>> > the Jews of the story never where in the first place.

>Please tell tham to ME and MY family, Mr. Moron.
>
>Tell me my relatives, of whom I have a number of photographs, did not exist.
>
>Please. Tell me.

How do you know they were relatives? To what degree of connection do
you consider them relatives? Please describe the “family” to which
these relatives belonged?

=====

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 61135 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stele: “I haven’t a clue how many newspapers….”
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:41:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 2:40:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:25:29 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
>Stele) wrote:

>> In addition to jews running the media companies, jews are also employed in
>> various strata within those jew-run media companies from top to bottom,
>> including an overrepresentation of jewish journalists.

>Like Dan Ratherstein?
>William Raspberryberg?
>George Willstein?
>Jack (Shmuel) Anderson?
>Rush Limbaugh?
>Robert MacNeilbergsterin?
>Sam Donaldsonstein?
>David Brinkleyberg?
>Maria Shriverstein?
>Charles Kuraultstein?
>Russell Bakerstein?
>
>Please… carry on.

As with the evidence for the holocaust, admissions like the following
are proof positive. The very absense of physical evidence is proof
that it is true.

========

“In Our Hands”
by Joseph Sobran

One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
conspiracy theory.

The odd thing is that it is held by many Israelis. In an essay
reprinted in the May 27th issue of The New York Times, Ari Shavit,
an Israeli columnist, reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli
killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians in April: “We killed them
out of a certain naive hubris. Believing with absolute certitude
that now, with the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
media in our hands, the lives of others do not count as much as our
own…”

In a single phrase — “in our hands” — Shavit has lighted up the
American political landscape like a flash of lightning.

Notice that Shavit assumes as an obvious fact what we Americans can
say publicly only at our own risk. It’s surprising, and refreshing,
to find such candor in an American newspaper (though his essay was
reprinted from the Israeli paper Haaretz).

The prescribed cant on the subject holds that Israel is a “reliable
ally” of the United States, despite Israel’s long record of
double-dealing against this country, ranging from the killing of
American sailors to constant espionage and technology theft. The
word “ally” implies that the relationship exists because it’s in the
interests of this country, though Israel’s lobby is clearly devoted
to the interests of Israel itself, and it’s childish to suggest
otherwise.

You expect that from the Israeli lobby; lobbies are lobbies, after
all. But it’s unnerving that the White House, the Senate, and much
of the American media should be “in our hands,” as Shavit puts it.
Bill Clinton, a lover of peace since his college days, raised no
protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of
their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel
(wounding one Israeli) by a faction over whom those 400,000 had no
control.

Congress, of course, was supine as usual at this latest extravagance
of Israeli “defense.” Congress too is “in our hands.”

A recent article in The Washington Post likened the Israel lobby’s
power to that of the gun and tobacco lobbies. But there is one
enormous difference. Newspapers like the Post aren’t afraid to
criticize the gun and tobacco lobbies. They will say forthrightly
that those lobbies seek goals that are dangerous for this country.
They don’t dare say as much of the Israeli lobby.

But much of the press and electronic media are “in our hands” in a
more active sense: They supply misleading pro-Israel propaganda in
the guise of news and commentary, constantly praising Israeli
“democracy” and ignoring Israel’s mistreatment of its non-Jewish
minorities — mistreatment which, if any government inflicted it on
a Jewish minority, would earn it the fierce opprobrium of our media.

No decent American would think of reducing American Jews to the status
of Palestinians in Israel. The idea is almost absurd. Yet Americans
are taxed to subsidize the oppression of Palestinians, on the flimsy
pretext that they are helping an “ally” in America’s own
self-interest to be hated and despised by the whole Muslim world.

All this is interesting less for what it tells us about Israel than
for what it tells us about America. Frank discussion of Israel is
permitted in Israel, as Shavit’s article illustrates. It’s rarely
permitted here. Charges of anti-Semitism and a quiet but very
effective boycott will be the reward of any journalist who calls
attention to his own government’s — and his own profession’s —
servitude to Israeli interests.

Very few in America are doing anything to change this sorry state of
affairs. Shavit wrote his article in the desperate hope of turning
back his countrymen and his government from a morally and
politically perilous course. At least he can hope. It’s harder for
us, when our own government isn’t in our hands.

=========end==============

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 61136 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:14:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 2:14:27 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:34:28 GMT, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

Thanks for another laughable post.

>On 27 Aug 1996 23:18:10 -0400, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>>Good day revisionists and revisionist adherents:
>>
>>We have seen that the Nazi’s elaborate train/camp scheme along with
>>numerous documentation describing the camps as labor camps (along with
>>only inferred and tenuous evidence to the contrary) indicate the Germans
>>were not trying to exterminate the jews, but rather only to remove them

>Only in your mind, Kurt.

>>from Europe society where they could not continue to exploit, disrupt,
>>subvert and otherwise harm the evolution of European society in the ways
>>jews had done for centuries.

>”Of greater scope than the program to murder the deformed children,
>T-4 was an enterprise with more complex institutional arrangements.
>Three camouflaged front organizations were set up: (1) Allgemeine
>Stiftung fur Anstaltwesen (General Foundation for Affairs of Insane
>Asylums), which employed the staff in the killing institutions; (2)
>Reichsarbeitsgemeinschaft Heil-und Pflegeanstalten (Reich Operative
>Team of Asylums and Nursing Homes), which distributed questionnaires
>to institiutions regarding patients eligible for T-4 and obtained the
>appropriate judgements; and (3) Gemeinnutzige
>Krankentranspotgesellschaft (Public Benifit Patient Transportaion
>Society), which transported patients from their institutions ti the
>killing centers. A significant portion of the personnel, medical and
>nonmedical, was drawn from the SS. Himmler himself was familiar with
>all these operations and apprised of problems.

>Patients slated for killing were transferred first to a transit
>facility, called an “observation institution,” of which there were
>five. They were then transferred to one of six “euthanasia”
>installations (at Bernburg, Brandenburg, Grafeneck, Hadamar, Hartheim,
>and Sonnenstein). Whereas the individual children were put to death
>individually, usually by injection, these six installations became the
>German dictator’s first laboratories for mass murder.

>A committee of physcians and medical experts, headed by Brandt, were
>looking for a means of mass killing that would disguise to the victims
>the fate in store for them and deceive their families. Various gases
>were experimented with. At first carbon monoxide was used, but cyanide
>gas – known by its German trade name as Zyklon B – proved to be the
>most effective.

Except that the dogma has it that the use of ZB was first tested at
Auschwitz in 1941. In fact, according to those stories, it was
totally unknown to Himmler until those experiments.

Late in 1939 the first gas installation was set up at
>Bradenburg, where Brandt, Bouhler, Brack, and company observed a test
>experiment, gassing four insane male patients. Hitler was informed of
>the results and was said to have decided then that only carbon
>monoxide was to be used. Then the five other institutions were
>similarly equipped. The procedure was pragmatically simple and
>convincingly deceptive. In groups of twenty to thirty, the patients
>were ushered into a chamber camouflaged as a shower room.

And of course these rooms have never been discovered. Nor have any
blueprints for them.

It was an
>ordinary room, fitted with sealproof doors and windows,

Whatever sealproof is.

into which gas
>piping had been laid. The cpmpressed gas container and the regulating
>equipment was located outside. Led into the chamber on the pretext
>that they were to take showers, the patients were gassed by the
>doctors on duty.

Anyone with the slightest idea of the volume of compressed gas knows
this is a ridiculous assertion.

>It did not take long before people learned what was going on and
>watched for the heavy smoke to rise from the crematory building,

Another ridiculous smoking crematory building.

said
>to be visible over Hadamar every day. In Grafeneck people began to
>recognize the SS vans carrying the patients to the gas chambers.
>Children seeing the bus in Hadamar would shout: ‘There goes the
>murder-box again.’ After more than a year of rising public clamor in
>Germany, Hitler, reluctant to ‘legalize’ this operation, instructed
>Brandt in August 1941 to ‘stall’ this killing of mental patients.

And of course there is no public record of the “public clamor” that
that is what we have come to expect from these stories.

It
>has been estimated that between 80,000 and 100,000 people were
>murdered under the auspices of T-4. But before T-4 ground to a halt,
>it visibly demonstrated the continuity between killing ‘racially
>valueless’ elements within the German community and killing the racial
>enemy.”

>Dawidowicz, Lucy S., The War Against the Jews. New York. 1975
>pp 133-134

Quite the whacko, this one.

>Gee, I wonder why they just didn’t shoot them, Kurt?

If you really believe this story, I have some land in Whitewater to
sell you.

=====

We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of earth

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:22 PDT 1996
Article: 61145 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 00:19:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 30 Aug 96 09:01:16 EST, [email protected] (Scott Erb)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…
>>
>>[email protected] (Robert) writes:
>>
>>>To call the Republikaner Rightwing is a joke
>>>(if anything they are more leaning to the populistic
>>>nationalist..Left a bit..(well any party is a mixtum
>>>compositum..)in a way..
>>>Its safe to say..that a Pat Buchaned figure in Germany
>>>(would be politically murdered by the public and media)
>>
>>>and anybody who calls Pat a Nazi..(needs his head
>>>checked out)

>> what i don’t understand is why you appear to view the term
>>right-wing as an insult, rather than just a description. especially
>>when you think the nazis were left-wing, not right-wing. just what
>>is your definition of right-wing, anyway?
>>
>> annette

>Robert, I think Annette is right on this one. You seem to have an odd
>definition of right wing. True, Pat Buchanan is not a Nazi, but he is right
>wing, and while, as I posted earlier, movements like Stalinism and Nazism
>probably don’t belong on a left/right axis, I can’t imagine how you could
>claim that the Republikaner are not right wing.

>From a political science perspective, I’d say look at a book on political
>ideologies. Right wing tends to describe nationalist, conservative movements
>that build on notions of tradition, religion, national pride, and usually a
>paternalist role for the state. Left wing tends to describe an
>internationalist, worker-oriented movement that stresses class, the role of
>the state to create social justice, and the state as a force to cause change.

And thus a right wing oriented party in Germany at the time would have
worked to return power to the nobility and a left wing party would
worked to impose a major change upon the country and impose social
justice.

Which party under discussion best fits your descriptions?

>What doesn’t fit in here very easily is liberalism, both political or
>economic. And, since there are “social liberals” — people with a more
>social democratic view of economics and liberal view of politics, and
>”capitalist liberals,” those who tend to be anti-state and believe completely
>in the market, they are hard to place. Capitalist liberals can be very
>opposed to tradition, religion, and nationalism, yet in some circles they are
>called conservative.

>The bottom line: left/right is a rather useless term. But if we are going to
>use it, the standard definition would indeed put the Republikaner and Pat
>Buchanan in the right wing category. It would certainly not put them or the
>Nazis in the “left wing” category by any means.
>-scott

Considering that the Nazis imposed perhaps the greatest social changes
ever in the history even going back to the Romans dealing with the
tribes and that its mainly sold itself on the injustice of the Treaty
of Versailles, why would you not put these socialists on the left?

=====

Although I agree with you such labels of left and right were of
marginal utility even at the time it was created, the tendency today
is to use the terms as substitutes for “good” and “evil” and of course
the other side of the spectrum is the “evil” side.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61147 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer FINALLY ADMITS THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 00:59:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:29:26 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>The very absense of physical evidence is proof that it is true.

>Well, Mr. Giwer, THANK YOU!!
>
>This quote of yours should put to rest all the “show me the physical
>evidence” claims from ALL the revisionists.
>
>Thanks. I appreciate your (for once) honesty.

It is good you agree the lack of physical evidence that the Jews
control the world proves that they do.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 00:38:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 30 Aug 1996 14:17:06 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Your friend is an idiot.

>Boy, the evidence for Kurt Stele’s thesis that deniers never, ever
>call people names just continues to mount. How could I ever have
>doubted him?

It is an accurate description for some who believes in the devil. You
too?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 30 21:02:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61161 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:56:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 30 Aug 96 16:37:04 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>> Individuals are not organizations. If you knew anything about
>>>> organizing people, in this case thousands of them, you would know the
>>>> effort required and the huge paper trail that would be left.

>>>Like the one that exists?

>> 2 or 3 questionable scraps of paper does not replace thousands of
>>clear and unambiguous documents.

>My, my, Mr. Giwer. You know perfectly well that we have that “huge paper trail”, since
>I have pushed your nose into it a couple of times. That you haven’t read the sources
>is a completely different game.

>Why don’t you give up your childish game. You should have realised by now that there are
>very few people with a cognitive capacity as low as yours. Nobody falls for your helpless
>lies.

You should pay more attention to the newsgroup. Every honest person
knows that there have only been a two or three ambiguous documents
refering to something about gassing.

But then Diogenes must have been searching for a honest holohugger.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:31 PDT 1996
Article: 61181 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 03:50:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Aug 1996 01:14:55 GMT, [email protected](Charles) wrote:

>In [email protected] (Kathleen
>Mulhern) writes:
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (G*rd*n the
>Demon
>>Rat) wrote:
>>
>>*Empty their pockets? One million dollars is one quarter
>>*cent per citizen. I think U.S. taxpayers are a little
>>*better off than to have their pockets emptied by an outgo of
>>*one quarter cent.

> Gee, if $1 million is so inconsequential — after all, a mere “one
>quarter cent per person” — why did those Jewish protesters so
>furiously decry the U.S. Justice Department’s offer of a $1 million
>reward for info leading to the arrest and conviction of the killer of
>peaceful Palestinian-American civil rights leader Alex Odeh — on
>American soil yet?
> “Fight domestic terrorism (i.e. post an “inconsequential” $1 million
>reward) and the Jews are upset.”
> Go figure. 🙁

That was an Arab, not a human being. Just ask them. How about a $1
million dollar reward for those responsible for targetting Qana, dead
or alive?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:32 PDT 1996
Article: 61189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Wiesenthal subborns perjury
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:43:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ya gotta love this Simon guy
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:45:00 GMT

Looks like he is good at subborning perjury also.

4/13/83:
The Toronto Star recounts the story of Frank Walus, who was
fingered by Simon Wiesenthal
first as a Gestapo collaborator, then later as a member of the
Gestapo. Twelve
eyewitnesses swore Walus was a mass-murderer who had stomped a
pregnant Jew to
death. Forty eyewitnesses placed Walus at the concentration camp
in
Kielce, Poland,
during the war. At the trial, however, it was established that
Walus was never at the camp,
never a member of the Gestapo, never a member of the SS, and that
in fact all of
Wiesenthal’s charges against Walus were fabrications. This
prompted
the US Justice
Department to drop all charges, issue an apology, and pay Walus
$34,000 to help offset his
legal fees.

Just a dry run to get Demjanjuk with similar perjury by similar
eyewitnesses.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:33 PDT 1996
Article: 61190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: GE we put good things to death!
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:13:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-23.ix.netcom.com
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

Anyone want to explain this one?

” It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances
were built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that
the people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed
and then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a
special way; there they were killed. ”

IMT VII – p.576-577.

Very nasty, those Germans.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61191 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, this is a nasty one.
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:14:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-23.ix.netcom.com
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT

“PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of
war stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot
at him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After
8 days a new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed
against the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head.
The prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. ”

IMT VII – p. 377.

Is there no end to the imagination of these nasty SS?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:35 PDT 1996
Article: 61192 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ecologically minded SS
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:16:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 11:16:22 PM CDT 1996
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT

“MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given
a check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
… When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure… they were burned in the open air without the use of
fuel.”

IMT XX – p. 494.

More Nazi physics at work.

I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

But on the good side they were conserving fossil fuels and not
contributing to global warming. Who said there was nothing good about
the SS?
=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:36 PDT 1996
Article: 61193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those magnificent men and their gassing machines
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 04:19:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 30 11:18:33 PM CDT 1996
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

Guess what? I found a gas chamber in the old Reich. I have also
found powdered cyanide.

“Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling-
the dummy shower heads. In the engineers’ room- the intake and outlet
pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve
to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal
smoke. From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the
crematory.”

IMT XXX – p.470.

Amazing what you can find if you look around.

And holohuggers are going to believe it.

This is one not to be forgotten.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:37 PDT 1996
Article: 61195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 03:39:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:29:53 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>>In article Daniel Keren wrote:
>>># The importance of these calculations is really in regard to
>>># the Cyanide concentrations found during the various samples
>>># and chemical analysis that were conducted.
>>>
>>>I thought we’ve been through this, many times.
>>>
>>>The required exposure time for delousing is very long
>>>(many hours). Homicidal gassing with the same concentration
>>>kills within minutes.

>>Well, here we disagree. See the complete Rudolf Report for a
>>detailed analysis of this question.

>>In brief: 1)The unheated cellars (gas chambers) in K II and III had
>>moist walls, in contrast to the heated delousing chambers on the
>>ground fall. The tendency of the moist walls to become enrichened
>>by hydrocyanic acid would demonstrably have been at least 10 times
>>greater than that of the dry walls in the delousing chambers.
>>2) To explain the differences in cyanide values between the gas
>>chambers and the delousing chamber (by a factor of 100 to 1,000),
>>the product of the factors (concentration x gassing times) in the
>>case of gassing of human beings must also have been 1,000 to 10,000
>>times lower, if not less, in order to compensate for the higher

>In breaf:: 1/ the CO2 was competing with the HCN if the walls were
>wet, so very little HCN could react with the walls;

There is no such competition worth mention as water is ionic enough
for both. And do not forget the all those bodies.

2/ the speed of
>solving HCN in water is a very difficult question, and if you have
>some clues I’m interested since I’m on my third book to unterstand the
>rules with a necessary numerical simulation

When will you post the results of a numeric simulation of the LKs?

3/ many testimonies,
>corroborating, say that the walls were washed with a nozzle of water
>after each gassing, so the little amount of HCN solved in water was
>washed and couldn’t react.

You kind find eyewitnesses who say anything. But then you will be the
first to post anything about hosing down the walls and the ceiling and
the floor and the bodies and all the other places where HCN would be
collecting.

>In breaf, your science is whimsical. You too, perhaps. I wait for more
>serious claims. Incidentally, the K2 and K3 were sometimes heated
>before the gassings.

In brief, you have presented no science in return. Why is that?

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:38 PDT 1996
Article: 61196 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Gerhard Weinberg on Bacque’s “Other Losses”
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 01:12:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:61196 alt.flame:24350

On Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:14:14 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:

>> In [email protected]
>writes:
>>
>> ! In article , [email protected] (Skip) wrote:
>> !
>> ! > The ruling classes desire to exterminate the white race.
>> !
>> ! AND YOUR PROOF FOR THIS BIZARRE ASSERTION IS…?
>>
>> The methods and goals as expressed by those in favor of international
>> capitalism in the media monopoly. See the Wall Street Journal, Foreign
>> Policy, Foreign Affairs, Commentary, New York Times, San Fracisco
>> Chronicle, Los Angeles Times, Miami Herald, Daily Oklahoman, etc.
>
>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PROVIDE me with ANY statement from any of these
>newspapers, journals, etc., in which it states that the “ruling classes
>desire to exterminate the white race.” PLEASE!

The lack of physical evidence proves it is true.

>> ! Are you saying that Jews are the “Ruling Classes”?
>>
>> No, it’s no synonym, but Jews are the most prominent group of the ruling
>> class, who organize for their group, in contrast to the white segment of
>> the ruling class, such as Ted Turner, who are anti-racist and
>> uncompetitive to other racial groups.
>>

>SO who are the OTHER members of the “ruling class”? Names, PLEASE?!

The lack of names proves it is true.

>> ! If that’s so, why haven’t we exterminated little gnats like YOU, Skippy?
>>
>> “We?” I doubt your a ruling class member, Sara, your just as much their
>> slave as I am.

>Hmm. Personally, I’m no one’s slave. I’m also not a delusional paranoiac,
>which is another thing we don’t have in common.

The fact that you do not know you are a slave proves that you are.

>> It does look like the white race will be extinct by 2100 unless
>> racists successfully fight the ongoing genocide. One requirement for
>> whites is to sire/bear more white children. The more white children the
>> better!

>Wow! I have TWO children. Does that count?

>But of course, they’re JOOOISH children. And they’re being raised as
>Jews. And they will probably marry other Jews and have MORE JOOOISH
>children…

Only if they continue to believe the tribal nonsense.

=====

There’s no business like Shoah Business
Like no business I know.
Everything about it is appealing,
Everything that traffic will allow.
No where can you get that happy feeling
Then when your stealing

From [email protected] Sat Aug 31 10:04:38 PDT 1996
Article: 61198 of alt.revisionism
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