Documents

Giwer Matt, 4-1996 – p1

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54771 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:26:37 GMT
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:56:21 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> The regular equate by the holohuggers of gassing equals
>holocaust is an
>> important link to break. Holocaust does not mean gassing. Holocaust means so
>> much it means nothing.
>
>Once again, Mr. Giwer’s fingers are moving faster than his brain.
>
>I have no idea what the first sentence here means.

Then those who understand will consider you in need of help of finding the big
red switch.

>Is this Mr. Giwer’s new tack? To write such complete nonsense that one
>cannot intelligently refure it?
>
>Holocaust, BTW, does not mean “so much.” it has a very simple definition
>in MY dictionary.
>
>Perhaps Mr. Giwer ought to try reading one.
>
>Sara

But then, there is no one who has considered a fatbroad able to even find it.

You are a blond, right?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54772 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Talmud baloney WAS Re: Luther and the Jews Part 1
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:53:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 149
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:25:20 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 30 Jul 1996 05:21:36 GMT, [email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>(Annie Alperts excellent article snipped)

>>Interesting that you should post “Quotations from the talm*d”.
>>
>>Our series on you weasely Khazars was so successful (218 POSITIVE
>>responses. j*ws of course spammed us, but this was a first for us in that
>>NOT ONE j*w said the posts contained a LIE) that we are planning a
>>second series on quotes from the talm*d. What a coincidence!
>Huber, you are up to your old tricks now aren’t you, I would think
>that most Jews knew the whole thing was a lie from beginning to end,
>written by the twisted mind of a ranting shaved head, poop.
>
>>The world will be able to see where your arrogance comes from, how you
>>have no morals, and what you think of us Asians, Whites and Blacks.

>My understanding is that you characters have no morals, lying,
>stealing and worst of all acting like the world owes you, well buck up
>huby and get a job, and try to act some what akin to a human being.

>I forgot to mention, but your rag sucks.

>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

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To: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Subject: Re: Re: Holocaust revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.test,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:59:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:15:18 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> That is an amazing one. The railroads dictating to the government the terms
>> under which they would accept payment or not ship. I can see the Nazis
>> quivering at the threat of a railroad refusal right now.

>Once again you’ve Giwerized yourself, Matt.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:50 PDT 1996
Article: 54773 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads,uk.politics,soc.culture.canada,alt.censorship.canada.dumb,za.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,misc.immigration,alt.personals.intercultural,soc.couples.intercultural
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:08:40 GMT
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On 31 Jul 1996 15:35:28 GMT, [email protected] (Eric Simon) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: And of course, when Flt 800 went down they were straining to avoid suggesting
>: terrorism and as I post this CNN has not reported any formal terrorist
>: identification as yet.
>:
>: Yet in Atlanta, the first words out fo their mouths was terrorist.

>Well, duh! That’s because they were not immediately sure it was even a
>bomb with Flt 800. But they _were_ sure it was a bomb in Atlanta.

A bomb does not a terrorist make.

As most US airline bombings have been for insurance claims it is a strange
pervision to call that terrorism.

But then there are many who will form opinions upon media hype rather than
fact. All who do so are fools and being used.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 54775 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Les the Genius
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:10:04 GMT
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:08:39 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:22:12 GMT, [email protected] (dannie
>hawkins) wrote:

>>On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:58:43 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>First of all, Mr. Anon, I am NOT your baby.
>>
>>Mere assertions… Prove it… cite sources… medical science etc.

>You really are as stupid as you write aren’t you danny Hawkins, you
>really need to comprehend what has been written.

>Trash sig deleted.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:52 PDT 1996
Article: 54776 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:25:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 158
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:44:46 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:59:46 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
>wrote:

>>
>>
>> This is a translation of a letter by me to the editor of the
>> moderate leftwinged Danish newspaper, Information printed on 9/9-94.
>>
>> The Importance of the Jewish Tale of Woe
>>
>> It is very difficult for me to understand, why exactly it is the
>> fate of Jews during WW2 that cannot be questioned, when you can do
>> so about all other historical events.

>Mr. Kreiberg it isn’t that you or Bradley Smith, Or Willis Carto, or
>Greg Raven, or the many others big and small that wish to “question”
>as you put it but they like you wish to tell everyone within ear shot
>that the Holocaust didn’t happen, that Jews didn’t have it so bad in
>WWII, and that the Nazi’s were just not all that bad.

>>
>> In the USA there has been built a special holocaust museum in
>> spite of the fact that the American Jews have never suffered any
>> particular harm and have always been among the most well educated
>> and affluent. One could ask oneself whether it had been more
>> appropriate if there were built a museum for the fate of the Red
>> Indians or the Negro slavery. Why has the sufferings of Jews an
>> exceptional position in proportion to other ethnic groups?

>Mr. Kreiberg, while not having lived or visited America, I can only
>assume that you are unaware of the many Museums that show not only the
>enslavement of African-Americans, but also the achievements of
>African-Americans, and American Indians, and a great many different
>museums, you really should spend more time investigating rather then
>just speaking about what you know “NOTHING ABOUT.”
>>
>> Abraham H. Foxman, National Director of the Jewish organisation
>> Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith (New York) in ADL On the
>> Frontline, January 1994 p. 2 , gives the following answer to this
>> question:
>>
>> “The Holocaust is something different. It is a singular event.
>> It is not simply one example of genocide but a near successful
>> attempt on the life of God’s chosen children and thus, on God
>> Himself. It is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as
>> recorded in the Bible; and like it’s direct opposite, which is
>> relived weekly with the Sabbath and yearly with Torah, it must be
>> remembered from generation to generation”
>>
>> So it is, because the Jews according to religious scriptures
>> regard themselves as God’s chosen people that the sufferings of
>> the Jews are regarded as more important than that of other
>> peoples.
>So it is Mr. Kreiberg that G*D decided, not Jews, you really have that
>some what backward, and you should spend some time reading the Bible,
>I mean if you are going to comment on it, then know what it says.

>> Just as the ecclesiastical inquisition a couple centuries ago
>> persecuted people with dissident religious views, are people, who
>> today refuse to submit to the holocaust-cult countries such as
>> Germany and France – believe or not – sentenced to prison.
>Jews weren’t dissident religionists they were Jews, people who
>wouldn’t accept Jesus as their Messiah, you should read what Martin
>Luther had to say about Jews, really Mr. Kreiberg, Jews were picked
>upon simply because they were Jews.
>>
>> I therefore do not think that Denmark in any way should assist
>> Germany in it’s bizarre witch-hunt on the so-called holocaust
>> deniers.
>Denmark can and should do what is best for Denmark, but remember that
>a country is judeged by the filth and intolerant that it provides
>refuge for, and I think that Denmark would rather not want to be
>associated with Nazis, because they are odeous.
>>
>> [ Since this letter was been printed in 1994 the European Union has
>> tried to dictate the other membership countries to introduce the same
>> kind of bizarre legislation.]

>I hope they are successful. Nazis Raus…
>>–
>>Ole Kreiberg
>>
>>http://login.dknet.dk/~olk (Danish)

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:53 PDT 1996
Article: 54777 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:20:40 GMT
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On 31 Jul 1996 19:32:31 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Followups set to alt.conspiracy.

>Dan Bennett ([email protected]) wrote:
>: In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt
>: Giwer) writes:
>:
>: >In fact what the media and all the rest are awaiting, anxiously hoping
>: >for, is one excuse to excite enough outrage to restrict liberties even
>: >further.
>:
>: Bingo.

>You think the media are in on this plot to restrict liberties? Why?

It is not a plot. They are liberals. 81% voted for Clinton. They are not
capble of analytic thought. They are journalism majors.

They believe in strong government if and only if is the kind of governmnet
they want. In that regard they are no different from conservatives.

We have a Constitution. We have pre-existing rights and powers specifically
exempted from federal government authority.

We are Americans. We are not Canadians. We are not Europeans.

The only question is whether or not one kills or submits to so many of the
improper laws. There is no question that the US government was never granted
the power to infringe rights on the grounds of safety.

And on more practical grounds, the Brits infringed general rights at the time
of the US revolution and thus provoked more problems.

As I have many times said, any revolution will be started by the government,
not by any militia.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:54 PDT 1996
Article: 54779 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vyshinsky runs his mouth off by himself
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:36:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:50:50 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:41:59 UTC, [email protected] (The
>honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

>there is nothing honourable about Vyshinsky when a character posts
>using a title such as he has, but never fear on Vyshinsky can run off
>at the mouth, or keyboard, or what every.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:54 PDT 1996
Article: 54787 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain’t
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 23:38:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f78739.525[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:43:51 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> Imagine, with these hot underground flues running below the
>floors of the crematoria, it must have been some pretty hot walking.

>Ooch – ouch.

> What the Holocasut story needs now is one of those ‘deus ex
>machina’ testimonies relating how those in the facilities wore special
>high lift insulated shoes.

And of course, those “well designed” gas chambers were missing a great source
of heat free heat (for the cost of a thermostat, a little ductwork and a fan)
to keep them warm all year round and make it better for HCN.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:56 PDT 1996
Article: 54793 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:40:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:42:31 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:30:23 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>>[email protected] (Chris Lyman) wrote:

>>>>[–Holocaust revisionist crap deleted–]
>>>>
>>>>Leuchter’s assertions have been thoroughly and repeatedly refuted
>>>>and debunked. I have friends who lost family members to the
>>>>Holocaust.

>>> I’d be interested in seeing the details and documentation of your
>>>friends loses. Did you see any? Did you ask for any? If you don’t come
>>>back with the answers, will it mean you didn’t ask or didn’t get any
>>>of the details and documentation?

>> Since UFOs were recently reintroduced into the disucssion, it is rather better
>>to ask for specifics. Are these people really friends or are they friends of
>>friends? Is there a claim that they died during the time frame of WW II or
>>that they were in fact gassed?

>> The regular equate by the holohuggers of gassing equals holocaust is an
>>important link to break. Holocaust does not mean gassing. Holocaust means so
>>much it means nothing.

>Matt, what you are engaging in right now is harrassment. Going into a
>Jewish newsgroup and denying the holocaust is tantamount to walking
>into a synagogue and doing the same thing.

You appear to be trying to cover your own ass.

Thank you lucky stars my father was released from the hospital yesterday. And
he went in after your call.

There was a lot of luck in that one.

Before I forget, he had the first ulcer in his life.

Should I think highly of you?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:57 PDT 1996
Article: 54795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: As an example of the holohuggers’ harrassment …
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:42:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 108
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-18.ix.netcom.com
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DO NOT PANIC! REMAIN CALM! READ *ALL* OF THIS MESSAGE BEFORE GETTING UPSET!

There are typically 5 possible reasons why you were sent this e-mail message:

3) You were a victim of a Reply-To: header directing your e-mail into a *.test
newsgroup via a mail->news gateway. Similar to 2) above.

All headers plus at most 10 lines of user text from your original article are
reproduced below for your perusal:

On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:15:18 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Once again you’ve Giwerized yourself, Matt.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:58 PDT 1996
Article: 54796 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:44:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:42:31 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:30:23 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>>[email protected] (Chris Lyman) wrote:

>> The regular equate by the holohuggers of gassing equals holocaust is an
>>important link to break. Holocaust does not mean gassing. Holocaust means so
>>much it means nothing.

>Matt, what you are engaging in right now is harrassment. Going into a
>Jewish newsgroup and denying the holocaust is tantamount to walking
>into a synagogue and doing the same thing.

>Andrew

>————————————-
>”Hehvu z’hirin barashut…”
>”Be wary of the authorities…”
> Rabban Gamliel
> Pirkei Avot 2:3

So stop adding those newsgroups. I do not add any newsgroups. Why are you
doing it?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:59 PDT 1996
Article: 54797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:09:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On 30 Jul 96 22:27:34, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Sun 28 Jul 96 04:42][Tue 30 Jul 96 17:44][0]*>

> >> The wiremesh columns were a very simple, very cheap thing
> >> to build.

> mnc> It appears you are not knowledgeable enough to deal with the
> mnc> sulphuric acid claim. I warned the wrong person it seems.

>If you have a better answer, give it in full – so it can be properly
>shredded, demolished and nuked.

>Otherwise admit that you know nothing of the subject and are trying
>to troll again.

>BTW – I have all that evidence that you kept demanding. If you don’t
>want it delivered after all, please let me know.

Tell me your manner of delivery and I will let you know.

Although, since you claim to have it, and now appear to speak for Nizkor these
days, Why not send it to them so they can make it available to the world?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:10:59 PDT 1996
Article: 54803 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads,uk.politics,soc.culture.canada,alt.censorship.canada.dumb,za.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,misc.immigration,alt.personals.intercultural,soc.couples.intercultural
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:01:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <1004[email protected]> <4t4v[email protected]> <14[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <0413[email protected]> <4thruk$k[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <31[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 13:48:13 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:24:51 -0700, Geoff Cooper
>>wrote:

>>>Rev wrote:

>>>>
>>>> I thought the OJ trial proved that a person’s race can not be
>>>> determined over the telephone?….They had to back off on their Black
>>>> Church Fire accusations, because they had egg on their faces after the
>>>> arrests of Blacks…..Now they try to smear White Southerners….How
>>>> pitiful these sons of Satan are; but so predictable.

>>>The FBI allegedly reported that the person making the phone call sounded
>>>like a white Southerner, not that it was a white Southerner. But this
>>>is as good an excuse as any, I suppose, for you to spread your racist
>>>lies. We all know that white Southerners are all a bunch of little
>>>angels who would never hurt anyone. You must be a son of Satan to
>>>spread such bullshit. Have you sniffed the Devil’s farts lately,
>>>scumbag?

>> One would think that sometime you folks would listen to the news.

>You folks…is that us JOOS?

It is you holohuggers. It is in particular people like you who who pretend to
be someone else “to see what my father knows about the matter.”

If there is a 10th ring of hell, I expect to meet you there, holohugger.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 06:39:22 PDT 1996
Article: 33548 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:23:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:46:07 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On 30 Jul 1996 18:32:51 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> >Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:
>>
>> > Not to mention that anything of mine posted without my
>> > permission is a violation of my automatic copyright on
>> > what I create.
>>
>> >I have never heard of this legal concept of “automatic copyright”
>> >anywhere. So far as I know one must include a copyright statement
>> >at the beginning of any published piece of writing for it to be
>> >copyrighted. Anything published without the copyright declaration is
>> >in the public domain and may be used by anyone without obtaining any
>> >permissions.
>>
>> >This would not be the first time that Mr. Giwer has introduced a
>> >bogus legal concept to cover some bogus assertion.
>>
>> Nice claim but your position has been false for 19 years.
>> Any honest attorney will tell you that.

>As has been pointed out there may be an implied and legally enforceable
>copyright. In your instance, however there are a number of factors which
>would tend to mitigate your claim. The first is the very working of the
>Usenet on which miltiple copies of your posts are distributed over various
>servers. By using Usenet an argument can be made that you have by posting
>wavied your copyright.

Is this your legal advice, couselor?

>Secondly there is the fact that Nizkor does not distribute your garbage –
>they archive it without remuneration.

Without permission, counselor. In which state are you licensed to practice?

>Thirdly, people who repost your crap to the Usenet are doing so in the
>context of a reply to you, and so are likely protected under the fair use
>provisions inherent in copyright law.

Said context being removed by Nizkor. Are you really practicing law?

>Fourthly there exists DejaNews, Alta Vista, and other archiving mechanisms
>on the Internet, of which you are aware, and you allow them to archive and
>distribute your junk without any special agreement.

That is up to their lawyers.

Ask after the lawyers at CI$.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:40 PDT 1996
Article: 54821 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 06:33:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 14:05:35 GMT, [email protected] (Todd Lofton) wrote:

>Andrew Mathis ([email protected]) wrote:
>[snip]
>: Do you deny, Matt, that the Trochmann brothers, who run the militia of
>: Montana, have Aryan Nations ties?

>I’m not Matt, but I’m not aware of any actions having been taken by the
>Militia of Montana that are racist. Do you, Andrew, have any evidence
>of such? If not, then shouldn’t the fact there are racist Democrats,
>Republicans, caucasians, blacks, etc. nullify your “argument?”

I am Matt and the last time I heard of the law in this country anyone can say
damn near anything they want including calling for the violent overthrow of
the government and it was protected by the 1st Amendment. (I am certain our
friend from Pennsylvania will have a unique slant upon a nearly 30 year old
decision.)

Beyond that, I am not aware of any racist militias. That is why they bother
the government so much. There is no way to use the race card to divide them.
That has worked so well for so many decades that the government does nto have
a fall back approach.

Beyond that, there have been inquiries into the Trochmanns and in fact they
have received prominent coverage in documentaries. Their primary “evil
weapon” is a fax machine. They invited the cameras into their “underground
armory” and the walls were lined with homemade canned goods. Not a gun in
sight.

Lucky for them it did not have three little chimneys or Dees would have gone
ballistic.

But of course the whackos in this country know the militias are evil and they
are salivating at the first serious mis-step by any one of them so as to
broadbrush all of them as evil.

And in the process to repeal more of the Bill of Rights. But what the hell,
it will be in a good cause.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:41 PDT 1996
Article: 54835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Pt 3
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:19:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:17:48 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:18:26 -0700, bud wrote:

>>
>> HOLOCAUST PROPAGANDA
>(slander deleted)
>> Douglas Reed in his book FAR AND WIDE gives us the following
>>information: “Thus the WORLD ALMANAC for 1947 (two years after the war’s
>>end) printed such Jewish supplied ‘estimates’, which gave the world’s
>>population of Jews in 1939, when the war began, at 15,688,259…

>What a crock,why not mention that the World Almanac for 1947 had a
>caveat about those counts, bet you don’t want to talk about that.
>> “In 1948 the New Your Times (a Jewish owned newspaper) published
>>what was offered as authoritative, statistical article, which stated that
>>the figure of Jewish world population for the year 1948 was between
>>15,700,000 and 18,600,000″ (p. 310 & 312).
>Here we go again with Hanson Baldwins article, and the retraction that
>appeared several days later in the New York times, you really should
>try harder, or is it Lie Harder??

>(To much Jew hating crapola, had to snip)
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:42 PDT 1996
Article: 54836 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sara and her brain power
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:16:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31ffa164.8128625@news>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:10:42 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 26 Jul 1996 23:12:08 GMT, [email protected](Janet) wrote:

>>(This is the question I posed to Sara and This is what I got back.
>>
>>If jews, as we both agree, live all over the world, then why
>>is it that they’re always in such Danger of being exterminated?)
>>
>>Janet

>I am surprised that you didn’t answer your question, as I am sure that
>you are wanting to do, and more to the question, why would you pose
>such a question??
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:43 PDT 1996
Article: 54838 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Subject: Re: finally…!
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:36:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4t690[email protected]> <[email protected]> <3[email protected]> <4teeh7$a[email protected]> <4tg6d6$449@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <31fc[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <31ffa5d8.9268758@news>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:30:26 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:45:32 -0700, bud wrote:

>>If you don’t know who “invented” this “misnomer” how do you know
>>he/she/it/they were/are “Jew-hater’s?” Get real and drop the persecution
>>complex everytime somebody tells some truth in relation to you or your
>>selction religion. Christians have to deal with it all the time.
>The Term “AntiSemite was coined by Wilhelm Marr, and if you had read
>anything about him you would have known that, but you didn’t
>dudrite, what a maroon.

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:44 PDT 1996
Article: 54839 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:03:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4tk[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 12:09:33 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:56:15 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>>GIWERISM ALERT!!
>>
>>>Sorry Matt – you blew it again and coverups or zig zags are not allowed.
>>
>>>The gas chambers were heated by the equivalent of a few hundred
>>>incandescent light bulbs – known as human beings.
>>
>>As an engineer you know better than that regarding the introduction of Polish
>>winter air.

> Please describe how this air was introduced into the underground
>chamber, when, in what amount, and at what step during the process.
>Supply documentation.

> The unsupported assertion of an admitted liar like yourself
>contributes nothing to the discussion.

Alec is leaving you hanging again. You are usefull to him. Keep it up.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:44 PDT 1996
Article: 54847 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “I will … this weekend.”
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:01:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <31f0cd46.4[email protected]> <4ss37g$77o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <31f230a7.29549[email protected]> <4sv41h$[email protected]> <4t05bi$[email protected]> <4t1ga[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Jul 1996 14:56:05 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 22 Jul 1996 15:05:22 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>: >Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: >: On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:24 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>: >:
>: >: > Now here is Mr.”McFee” with something else.
>: >:
>: >: There us no one inside McFly.
>:
>: >Make it stop. Please.
>:
>: Tell it to McFly.

>I don’t know anyone named McFly, but if he can stop you and Tommy
>from gibbering inanely on my monitor, I will search for him with
>great dilligence. Really, Matt–if people want to read the kind
>of trash you’ve been posting of late, they can delve into the
>K12 hierarchy. You’ve dropped to Moran’s level, and you continue
>to plummet. I realize Alec’s arrival has been tough on you, but
>do try to keep your end up just a bit, huh?

If people do not want to read what I have been posting they can drop off this
conference for the discussion of revisionism.

And it continues to amaze me that you actually think your rather amateurish
approach would have any effect upon me.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:45 PDT 1996
Article: 54848 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:30:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 23 Jul 96 10:03:26, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Genocide] [Mon 22 Jul 96 20:11][Tue 23 Jul 96 02:04][0]*>

> mnc> However, in smoking out the believers they have to face they
> mnc> are part of a genocidal religion. It takes a bit of the sting
> mnc> out of their studied outrage over what they imagine happened
> mnc> during WW II.

>Since you have never proven this or provided the smallest shred of
>legitimate evidence, you’re simply spouting hot air.

That is why believers are so useful. I do not have to prove anything to them.
They bring the baggage to the table with them.

> mnc> That is why they are leaving you out in the cold on this
> mnc> one.

>As always, you are very wrong.

>But you knew that.

There are several believers here. Can you identify them yet?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:46 PDT 1996
Article: 54860 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:15:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5c9[email protected]> <4t9caq[email protected]> <4tbfqm[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 28 Jul 96 11:23:14, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[auschwitz:myths and facts] [Sat 27 Jul 96 06:20][Sun 28 Jul 96 01:45][0]*>

> >> Yes, it was. “Schaedlingsbekaempfung.” What do you think
> >> that means?

> mnc> Since you are playing the same old translation game, I have
> mnc> no interest.

>Do you really like losing all of your arguments, Matt?

It is not a matter of losing or winning. It is a matter of the eye of the
beholder.

We have two polarized camps on this NG.

It is all being stated for the lurkers.

And of course committed lurkers are not the intended audience.

You folks constantly make the mistake of posting for the committed lurker.

That is a total waste of time. The objective is to be reasonable. Present a
case simply and without “you’re losing it” being the only response as that
only appeals to the committed lurker.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54863 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Pt 3
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:19:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4t690[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <31ffa361.8636901@news>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:20:23 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 30 Jul 1996 10:11:17 GMT, [email protected](Rev) wrote:

>>I
>(Marmelstein case deleted)
>> Could you please tell us the name of the judge who ruled in favor
>>of Memelstein?….Also, if you could tell us what the judge’s race and
>>religion were, we would appreciate it.
>
>More importantly was the Judges ruling “EVER” Overturned??

>Since when does a Judge have to declare his race or religion?? HMM, I
>do so wonder why you want to declare that.

>Rev, you are the sore loser, this isn’t the esteemed Rev Ron Schodel,
>now is it??
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54875 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SIMON WEISENTHAL CENTER censoring again (repost)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:18:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31FA[email protected]> <[email protected]> <31ff9dd6.7218353@news>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:56:44 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 30 Jul 1996 04:22:22 GMT, [email protected](Sjafar) wrote:

>>The Zionist do not want the truth to spread around. The internet is
>>more dangerous to the Jews than a nuclear Bomb. They will stop at
>>nothing until they destroy their enemies. But time have changed, the
>>zionist are facing the Final War.
>>
>>Salah Jafar

>Really Jafar, you are going to do something?? What you gonna do, lie
>some more about Jews, or maybe your gonna tell another slanderous
>allegation about Israel? Go right ahead, but final war?? You are to
>funny, Israel still is Israel, and the Arabs well, they still are what
>they are. Tah Tah.

>(Wiesenthal snipped, and responses snipped)
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54876 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 06:51:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sptl9$p7q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4t2[email protected]> <6bf_[email protected]> <4t6a7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 09:54:49 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 23 Jul 96 12:02:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
>>
>>><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>>><+[No historian has ever] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:38][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>
>>
>>
>>> mnc> Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the
>>> mnc> reproductive organs.
>>
>>> mnc> What a piece of shit this holocaust is.
>>
>>>Not one person ever cured of Smallpox by leeches.
>>
>>>Pull your fingers from your ears, Matt.
>>
>>It is one more example of the complete lack of physical evidence for this
>>mass extermination.

> No, it is one more example of Matt Giwer lying. The letter itself is
>physical evidence. You can touch it. And physical evidence has been
>presented before. Matt Giwer merely denies that it is evidence.

> There is physical evidence of cyanide use in the Kremas, and physical
>evidence of lots of dead Jews. Matt Giwer simply denies that there is
>physical evidence _unequivocally_ linking the gas with the deaths, only
>eyewitness testimony. He says the morgues could have been fumigated for
>lice, maggots, and rats. But has he produced a dead louse, maggot, or rat
>as physical evidence? No. Why should it be necessary to fumigate for
>rats at all? Why not just keep the gas-tight door closed and put grilles
>over the drains? Are the rats going to nibble through concrete?

You must be straining your won credulity to post this one. Morgues are
morgues. They attract vermin. They are fumigated.

There are NO unexplained deaths unless you assume there were people who were
not registered as entering. Every person who was entered into the register
has a recorded fate until the Russians showed up.

You have to assume that people were sent there without any record any place
and then were gassed so that they disappeared.

And then of course we have the 31 million untraceable people as a result of
that war and it is still completely unclear as to why or even how 10 of those
31 million can be assigned to extermination campaigns without even a
significant fraction of those being documented.

About 1/3 of the untraceable are arbitrarily assigned to extermination based
upon nothing but “estimates” which are also without basis save samplings of,
“I can’t find them where they were.”

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54885 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain’t
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:12:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f78739.52576[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:37:32 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes to Moran, the turkey with no answers.

>tom moran wrote:

>clips

>> >Questioning as usual for someone to please explain for him in lay terms, how the heat from the crematoriums was handled. Which of course is Moran’s contribution to the current debate about how the Nazis burned their millions of victims.

>Easy, Moran…oooops (third person) Mr. Moran should understand that
>burning 3-4 million dead people (also some live ones too) is easy once
>you know how.
>>

Are you certain you are not Alec Grynspan?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 1 16:43:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54904 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:55:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-26.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 30 3:56:05 PM PDT 1996
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On 29 Jul 1996 05:14:20 GMT, wrote:

>Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
>From: Daniel Keren, [email protected]
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:01:34 GMT

>Alles andere als [email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:

># Dan, I like your posts, but your attempt at a remorseless
># putdown of Tom would have been better if you got your
># magnitudes right. A ton is either 2,000 lbs. or 2,240,
># long or short. So everyone gets 7.4 grams a day, which
># is _twice_ as much as you calculated.

>In English, “ton” refers to 20cwt (hundredweight) which is
>2,240 lbs. (1 cwt = 8 stone = 112 lb.)

>In the USA, there is also a “short ton” consisting of twenty “short
>hundredweights” (110lb each).

>The metric ton (sometimes still written as “tonne”) is
>1,000 kilogrammes, or about 2,204.62 lbs.

Rather a convoluted explanation. But some years after I knew of the above
explanation I found our “long” ton or tonne listed as exactly 2200 pounds. I
went back to verify the relationship between the pound and the kilogram and
found it to be exactly 2.2 pounds. Without going any further I assumed it was
part of our short lived metrication program.

As a sidebar, US Navy construction uses the metric ton.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:10 PDT 1996
Article: 54909 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sara and her brain power
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:16:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31ffa164.8128625@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-18.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:10:42 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 26 Jul 1996 23:12:08 GMT, [email protected](Janet) wrote:

>P. GROFF

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:11 PDT 1996
Article: 54940 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:58:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-18.ix.netcom.com
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On 31 Jul 1996 12:53:41 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> WHITE American male voice. Accent was not mentioned.

> Sorry Matt the official statement was “a male voice with an
>indistinguishable American accent.” (New York Times, Sunday morning edition)

> Why do lie about things that are so easy to check out? Have you
>been hanging around with l’il tommy again?

Sorry about that but as read on CNN it was as I stated.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:12 PDT 1996
Article: 54949 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:03:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 28 Jul 96 11:11:08, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[A Silence You Almost Can Hear] [Sat 27 Jul 96 06:40][Sun 28 Jul 96 >01:45][0]*>

> mnc> Since you are are all of that, what is gryn.ORG? Just out
> mnc> of curisoty that is.

>A set of letters registered to me, so that Domain Name Servers can
>assign the correct IP address and so that the routers can deliver
>material to me.

>I own it, as the administrative and technical contact.

> >> Prove it.

> >> mnc> It is McVay’s personal plaything. So the subject of free
> >> mnc> speech is always McVay, not Nizkor. And remember that
> >> mnc> McVay supports Zundel’s right to free speech any place
> >> mnc> but Canada.

> mnc> His supporters have posted his own statements exactly to
> mnc> that effect. You might take the time to read them.

>I have seen nothing to the effect that Ken excludes Canada from
>Zundel’s right to free speech.

Why is what you have seen of interest?

Why is it that you will not go back to the failure of any relationship to
witness reports of gassing to the effects of gassing? Why does an engineer,
who can shed such great light upon this manner, REFUSE to disucss this matter
which is the one under discussion?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:13 PDT 1996
Article: 54983 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:06:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f614a6.14[email protected]> <4tcs0j$l5n@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <31fa164d.9386[email protected]> <4ti5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 23:38:38 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>confessed liar Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:14:55 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>> Oh, I see your having the same problem with Keren over here as to
>>>these referred to reports, patents and manuals that he keeps alluding
>>>to without actually posting the stuff itself.
>>
>>Having a problem is hardly the word for it. He keeps making it up as he goes
>>along.

> Prove it, confessed liar.

> Would you like to discuss all the times you have done this? How about
>the claim that the Brack letter was an NKVD forgery?

>>He makes it up as he goes along and then claims it is gospel. It is
>>rather tiring not to mention boring.

> Another lie from the confessed liar.

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted

Do you really wish to continue to advertise the conspiratorital libel of
Nizkor?

> What is the difference between you and Rudy Vrba, confessed liar?

If there is no difference then Vrba is a liar. Is that not where your post
leads?

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:14 PDT 1996
Article: 54994 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: STUPID GERMANS
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:50:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31fb9646.90[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 09:17:54 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:35:54 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>>II.
>>> According to the Holocaust story, instead of building chimneys
>>>right in the immediate proximity of the furnaces for evacuation of the
>>>flaming residue from raging coke fires, and availing of the long and
>>>widely known principle of draft and chimney design, the Germans built
>>>them 20 to 40 feet away so they would have to install underground
>>>flues from furnace to chimney. Of course since heat rises this setup
>>>would necessitate the need for some sort of mechanical assist like
>>>heat resistant blowers to draw the smoke and hot ash first down into
>>>the ground or cellar (take your pick), and then through the connecting
>>>flue(s) to the chimney.
>>
>>In fact, until you raised this point, it was a holohugger act of faith that
>>they were exactly as you describe them.

> Huh? Act of faith? The plans exist.

The act of faith is that this has anything whatsoever in any manner to do with
gassing anyone.

>>I remember going over it months ago.

> But then, you remember many things which are not so. You make John
>Dean look like archival videotape even when you are not deliberately
>lying. And you are a confessed liar:

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted

Rather Nizkor is a confessed site of libel, blood libel in all of its Nazi and
antisemite references. Blood libel excuses things that real libel would not.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:15 PDT 1996
Article: 55000 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 06:57:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 31 Jul 1996 22:28:28 GMT, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:

>> In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>> >[Followup = alt.revisionism]
>> >
>> >[email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>> >
>> ># Why did the nazis chose Zyklon B for the killing of
>> ># humans in the concentration camps?
>> >
>> >Because it was simple and cheap. Two very good reasons.
>> >
>> ># Why didn’t they chose sodium-cyanid crystals poured
>> ># down in sulphuric acid like they have done in execution
>> ># gaschambers in the USA since the twenties and still do
>> ># today?
>> >
>> >Why bother? There was plenty of Zyklon-B around, and simply
>> >throwing it into the chambers, via the openings, was good enough.
>> >
>> But they still have to order it and have it delivered.

>And sodium cyanide and sulphuric acid would not need to be ordered as
>well? You make no sense whatsoever, Mr.Kreiberg. (But then you didn’t make
>sense with your “exploding corpses” claim either.) Irregardless, it is a
>specious objection. Zyklon B was a commercial fumigant that was _designed_
>to be shipped in bulk. It was in widespread use not only in the civilian
>sector but within the German armed forces as well. Zyklon B, _because_ it
>was ubiquitous, was _inconspicuous_. Only the removal (and diminuation) of
>the lachrymal changed this.

>BTW, Not only would sulphuric acid need to be transported to Auschwitz, it
>would need to be transported _away_ as well. And don’t forget that it
>would be contamninated with cyanides as well as _normally_ being toxic.
>Spent Zyklon B, on the other hand, was non-toxic and easily transportable
>(back to the factory) or disposable (typically by incineration).

>> >Why bother with a more complicated procedure?
>>
>> The American way of executing people with HCN was well tested, very quick
>> and efficient. It was also a much more simple way of producing HCN gas.

>So was the Nazi way. The homicidal use of Zyklon B was simplicity itself:
>open a can, pour into the gas chamber, and walk away. The Nazi way was
>also designed to kill hundreds, even _thousands_, at a time. Again, Mr.
>Kreiberg, you are making no sense with your specious objections.

But none of if would have matched the descriptions of the witnesses which is
as always to root of the discussion. Not a one.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:16 PDT 1996
Article: 55008 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:01:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-18.ix.netcom.com
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On 31 Jul 1996 12:28:17 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:18:35 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Incinerated hair was found? By what miracle do you propose this occurred?
>>
>>>Matt opens mouth.
>>
>>>Matt inserts foot.
>>
>>>Matt kicks.
>>
>>>Matt claims conspiracy.
>>
>>>Trya again, Matt. If the PARTIALLY-BURNT remains of the last firing of
>>>a Krema were not disturbed, it would be easy to distinguish the hair.
>>
>>>Years ago, when I smoked a pipe and used an unusual tobacco blend, some
>>>of the folks at the club decided to stick a clump of hair into my
>>>tobacco.
>>
>>>It stank, of course, but when I knocked the ashes out of my pipe, the
>>>hair was clearly recognizable.
>>
>>This is fansinating. The MOST flammable part of the human body remains after
>>the rest of the body is partially burned.

> Suppose the body were at the periphery of the pyre, head out.

Then the rarity of the find, in combination with the common findings would
tend to support the case but only AFTER major excavations. But note that Alec
is leaving you hanging on this one as he knows better.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:17 PDT 1996
Article: 55009 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 06:36:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <1004[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-18.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:55009 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2276

On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:08:57 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>> Dees is the one most responsible for falsely labeling the
>militia groups as
>> white supremacist groups. That gives him some standing in the anti-racist
>> community. He was right in there trying to hang the label in Koresh and in
>> many cases he succeeded.
>>

>Please provide proof that Morris Dees called David Koresh a white supremacist.
>
>I saw no such information in the SPLC’s newsletters.

You should have watched him on CNN.

>The fact that you dislike Mr. Dees only increases my respect for him and
>the work he does.

I have always expected you to respect idiots who are also lying for funding
raising.

>You should have half the honesty and commitment Morris Dees has.

The Dogtown Rangers are a militia group.

>
>One tenth, even.
>
>Sara
>
>By the way, I’m trimming ALL responses to Giwer to alt.revisionism and
>alt.fan.ernst-zundel. None of the other groups he spams are appropriate to
>any of this.

Grow up, little girl, and stop getting all of your information off of the
internet.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:17 PDT 1996
Article: 55017 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:12:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-14.ix.netcom.com
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On 1 Aug 1996 13:52:07 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article , [email protected]
>(Mark Van Alstine) writes:

>>
>>> Reason why those black things ain’t l’il chimneys:
>>>
>>> 1) They are too tall to be little anythings.
>>
>>And what makes you think this? How tall do you think these ersatz “rolls
>>of tar paper” in the photo are? Please enumerate your assumptions.

>OK, click up the picture. We can see the edge of the Krema above ground,
>and we know that it is 25 feet 4 inches in width (the length, receding in
>the photo, is 98 feet something). Now there are two things self-evident
>to me in the picture. The first things is that these black things are not
>down the center line. This is not obvious because the LK in the photo is
>slightly canted. But the three things I see look to be about 3/4 of the
>way over towards the left side. Furthermore, I am not sure that they are
>even in line (this might be another reason for the variable width).

>The second thing is that, using the 25’4″ as a bench mark, we can estimate
>the height and width of the black things. Just eyeballing it, I would say
>about 4 feet high and 1 foot wide. Sounds like a roll of tar paper to me.
> OTOH, does not sound like a little chimney that is supposed to cover an
>opening about 3 feet wide. So there is that, and there is the fact that
>they are not centered.

>Beyond that there is the fact that there is a discussion about completing
>the roof of the Krema. And so tar paper is a logical conclusion to me.

Beyond that the splotches on the aerial photos are at least 10 feet in the
smallest dimension and in many other ways do not match the chimney
description. They are not regular and are not in a straight line.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:18 PDT 1996
Article: 55021 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler praises Jews-let’s all praise Hitler!
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 04:19:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-26.ix.netcom.com
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On 29 Jul 1996 13:18:18 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes:

>>Subject: Hitler praises Jews-let’s all praise Hitler!
>>From: [email protected]
>>Date: 28 Jul 1996 10:57:41 GMT
>>
>>Of course Hitler’s praise was demonstrated by banning the music of Jewish
>>composers from being played in Germany.

>That’s the interesting part. Apparently there was a disjunction between
>his personal tastes and the tastes which he allowed Goebbels to impose on
>Germany.

In the old days in the US the President was choosen by the party bosses and it
was in fact the party bosses that ran the country.

With parliamentary governments it was and is even more clear. Failing a major
vote means the PM’s own colalition did not support him (he tried to do what
they did not like, or like the Major replaces Thatcher event) and you see who
has the real power in the party.

That this does not translate to other countries, particularly Germany, for the
true believers is hardly more than amusing.

After all, when one has the very personification of evil, it bothers the
psyche to have to admit they are dealing with second best.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:19 PDT 1996
Article: 55035 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 04:24:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-26.ix.netcom.com
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On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:18:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[Followup = alt.revisionism]

>[email protected] (Vyshinsky) writes:

># The Leuchter Report came out of a highly dramatic secret
># expedition in the middle of the Second Great Holocaust
># Trial in 1988 in Toronto where the Holocaust Lobby, working
># through the government while helping themselves to tax payer
># money, had put Ernst on trial for “spreading false news.”

>This is starting to bore. We’ve been through this dozens of
>times already.

>Ernst Zundel is a crazy Nazi, who not only believes the
>Holocaust never happened, he also believes that the Nazi
>leadership used “secret UFO’s” to flee to a “secret base”
>in the South Pole. He also claimed that the base is still
>there, and tried to organize an expedition to look for it;
>he also claimed that there is a hole in the South Pole,
>via which the “Nazi UFO’s” enter the inner earth.

>See some of Zundel’s fliers on this, and other related
>UFO insanity: check out https://nizkor.org/, in the
>directory ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers.

And it is of more than passing interest that both gassing and UFOs rely solely
upon testimonies and wildly misinterpretated pictures not ot mention admitted
lies by some of the “witnesses” particularly those who find themselves under
oath in court.

>This is really hilarious stuff; look it up.

Both UFOs and gassings are equally hilarious.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:20 PDT 1996
Article: 55090 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 06:53:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 1:54:46 AM CDT 1996
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On 02 Aug 96 19:05:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Mauving right along] [Fri 02 Aug 96 05:19][Fri 02 Aug 96 10:11][0]*>

> >> How do insect eggs breath, Matt?

> mnc> That is a question to which the answer is rather complex.
> mnc> Rather than attempt to answer it myself I refer you to any
> mnc> holohugger post explaining how or to a text on the subject.

> mnc> Although insect eggs vary widely they are not like chicken
> mnc> eggs and do metabolize the atmosphere in their development.

>The question had a purpose. Thanks for doing such a good job in
>ducking so visibly.

>I said that you were useful.

At least you learned something.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:21 PDT 1996
Article: 55092 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:08:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 152
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 2:09:27 AM CDT 1996
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On 2 Aug 1996 15:15:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 7/29/96 at 8:58, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:06:14 GMT
>>
>>
>> I wonder if the ten hour ventilation time has anything to do with the
>>long promised Degesh pub not showing up before.
>>
>>Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication
>>
>>History
>>
>>As long as 80 years ago it was recognized that hydrocyanic acid could be
>>useful in pest control but it took half this time to popularize the method.
>>
>>Deficiencies and disadvantages had first of all to be eliminated from
>>the method of application. First this had been done in such a way that
>>hydrocyanic acid was no more developed on the spot by mixing cyanides and
>>acid, but this process already took place in the factory: The so-called “pot
>>method” was replaced by liquid hydrocyanic acid. The few deficiencies of this
>>procedure were removed in the early twenties by the ZYKLON method: One added
>>liquid HCN to a “carrier substance”, thus simplifying handling whilst all
>>favourable properties of liquid HCN were maintained. At the same time, danger
>>to the operator was reduced to a minimum. Hydrocyanic acid in the form of
>>ZYKLON can be safely stored for considerable periods and under all climatic
>>conditions, any quantity of gas can be easily measured, quickly and cleanly
>>released. Any residures are completely harmless.
>>
>>Composition
>>
>>In ZYKLON pure (98%-99%) liquid hydrocyanic acid is chemically
>>stabilized and absorbed in a porous, inert material. It is supplied in
>>snippets or discs prepared from wood pulp. Snippets generally are preferred as
>>in view of their larger surface they give off the gas more rapidly. Upon
>>request also discs can be supplied. The aborbent material can easily be
>>collected at the end of the fumigation.
>>
>>Packing
>>
>>ZYKLON is packed in handy, gas-tight tins of various sizes which are
>>packed in strong wooden cases. One case, measuring 72 x 50 x 36 cm contains:
>>
>>Imperial – units 16 tins, each containing 40 ozs. HCN – total 40 lbs HCN or 30
>>tins, each containing 16 ozs. HCN – total 30 lbs HCN.
>>
>>Toxicity
>>
>>No thoroughly effective pesticide is known to exist which could be
>>considered to be harmless to human beings or mammals. Fatal concentrations of
>>HCN impede or completely cut off the oxygen supply to the cells. The poison
>>can enter the body in three ways: through the mouth, the respiratory
>>organs, or the pores of the skin. The latter will occur in particular if the
>>body is exposed to high concentration for any length of time and in
>>unfavourable conditions (great heat).
>>
>>Methods
>>
>>Prior to fumigation, the tins must be distributed about the building. The
>>tins are opened, and the ZYKLON is scattered so as to reach even the remotest
>>parts of the building. If this is done correctly the gas will develop evenly
>>and instantaneously throughout the premises. Spaces difficult to reach may be
>>charged separately. In multi-storied buildings one begins with the top floor,
>>and then works towards the exit, taking care that nobody re-enters rooms
>>already charged. Even under mask protection it is not advisable to expose
>>oneself to the gas more than is absolutely necessary. The exit door is sealed
>>after everybody has left the building; warning notices must be put up before
>>gassing commences and a guard placed near the building to prevent unauthorised
>>persons from entering. Time of exposure depends on the type of pests to be
>>attacked; for the destruction of the various types of moths and their
>>pre-adult stages 24 hours will suffice, against other kinds of insect pests
>>one should fumigate for 48 hours. If there are any dense stowages or bulkss of
>>commodities to penetrate, the time of exposure may need to be extended to 72
>>hours.
>>
>>Ventilation
>>
>>During this operation gas-masks must be worn. The ventilation takes
>>place in the reverse direction to the gassing. All windows near the entrance
>>are opened first, then gradually those in the rest of the building. It is
>>advisable to work only for 10 to 15 minutes at a time and then to make
>>interruptions of half an hour, as a precaution against skin poisoning.
>>
>>Depending on concentration, outdoor tempature and weather conditions,
>>ventilation will take at least 10 hours. Clearing of tins and residues may be
>>commenced before the end of airing. Windows and doors must remain open, and
>>gas-masks kept available. ZYKLON tins and absorbent material must always be
>>collected and cleared away before the resumption of work.
>>
>>Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication

>From the “Directives for the use of Prussic Acid (Zyklon)” as issued by
>the Health Institution of the Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia in
>Prague. It is contemporary to the Third Reich.

> Prussic acid is a gas which is generated by evaporation.
> Boiling point: 25 degrees Centigrade [point at which the liquid
>becomes gas]
> The liquid evaporates easily.
> Prussic acid is soluble in water.
> Lower limit of combustion: 67.2 g/m^3
> Higher limit of combustion: 480.0 g/m^3

> Normal application approx. 8-10 g/m^3 [for delousing], therefore not
> explosive.

> Prussic acid is one of the most powerful poisons. 1 mg per kg of body
>weight
> is sufficient to kill a human being. Women and children are generally
>more
> susceptible than men.

> Poisoning through the skin:

> Dizziness, headache, vomiting, general feeling of sickness, etc. All
>these
> symptoms pass if one gets out into the fresh air.

> ——–

> The following is the lethal doses (in g/m^3) per species:

> Mosquitos: 0.25 for 30 minutes
> Bugs: 0.25 for 1 hour
> Humans: 0.30 instantly
> Fleas: 1.25 for 2 hours
> Rats and mice: 2.5 for 2 hours
> Lice: 5.00 for 2 hours
> Cockroaches: 5.00 for 2 hours

>After all, we CERTAINLY wouldn’t want anyone to think you were trying
>to mislead in regard to lethal doses/times…

I was also the first to post this one as I remember.

But what you post is the basis for the holohugger insistance upon 12 hours or
more for the required exposure time in pest control.

And it was obviously produced by people who had no idea what they were doing
as rats and mice have a higher metabolic rate than humans as they failed to do
the obvious in presenting a constant baseline of concentration.

I would have thought that would be obvious to everyone.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55093 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:54:07 GMT
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On 2 Aug 1996 02:21:05 GMT, [email protected] (Rafe B.) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…
>>
>>Andrew Mathis ([email protected]) wrote:
>>[snip]
>>: Do you deny, Matt, that the Trochmann brothers, who run the militia of
>>: Montana, have Aryan Nations ties?
>>
>>I’m not Matt, but I’m not aware of any actions having been taken by the
>>Militia of Montana that are racist. Do you, Andrew, have any evidence
>>of such? If not, then shouldn’t the fact there are racist Democrats,
>>Republicans, caucasians, blacks, etc. nullify your “argument?”

>The Trochman brothers (founders of the MOM) have well-known
>ties to Christian Identity, KKK, and the Aryan Nations.
>Of course, they keep a more modest profile when faced with
>national-level media coverage (e.g., on their web page.)

>In 1990, John Trochman was featured speaker at the Aryan
>Nations World Congress. Richard Butler (aging head of
>Aryan Nations) made complementary remarks about the Trochmans’
>involvement in Aryan Nations.

>Anti-semitic publications from Liberty Lobby are often
>sold and distributed at MOM gatherings.

>The Trochmans also have ties to Louis Beam (KKK)
>and to a Christian Identity group known as
>”United Citizens for Justice”.

>As to actual acts of violence against their
>perceived enemies, I am not aware of any. But
>it sure seems like they’re gearing up for something…

>Source: “The Party of Fear”, David H. Bennet,
>Vintage Books, 1988. pp 450-451.

>Also: “Gathering Storm”, Morris Dees,
>HarperCollins, 1996, P. 79

Even if all true, so fucking what? The only issue is acts of violence of
which you are aware of none which is quite correct as their have been none.

It is still a free country, even for the Klan.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55099 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:28:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 31 Jul 1996 11:02:56 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Silke-Maria Weinec wrote:
>>
>>That’s a beautiful logic. If we talked more about Cambodia, then
>>holocaust revisionism would disappear. You’re getting better and better,
>>Ole! You really can’t think of any other reasons why people want to deny
>>the holocaust? What if you try really hard?

> If some nazis want to deny the holocaust, so what? If some communists say
>that most of what you hear about millions of people perished in communist
>prisoner camps is nothing but bourgois propaganda concocted by the CIA, so
>what? Is there something unusual in criminals denying their crimes?
>According to the Danish penal code you will not receive extra punishment
>no matter how much you are denying your crimes. Thus it cannot be punishable
>to deny crimes committed against humanity. If you are not charged yourself
>with those crimes that you are denying you would be considered even less
>culpable.

Holohuggers are very strange people. It is almost as though they enjoy what
they are doing. Probably the kind the rushes to an accident site to look at
the blood.

From [email protected] Sat Aug 3 07:04:23 PDT 1996
Article: 55117 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kevin Alfred Storm and the NA on Genocide
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 09:30:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 2 Aug 1996 17:08:05 +0200, [email protected] (Anonymous) wrote:

>A few comments about the NA and advocamy of Genocide.
>Genocide in its formal definition is NOT limited to physical extermination
>of a group based on racial, religious or ethnic origin.

>Genocide may include forcibly expulsion of a group of people or even
>attempts to exterminate this
>group by denial sterilization.
>Since certain people want to cleanse the U.S. by expelling people of non
>white origin, such an attempt may be considered Genocide.

The US had no such interest. The US does have an interest in expelling those
who are criminals by the very fact that they are in this country. Do you have
anything other an anti-American ignorance behind your couwardly anonymous
post?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:45 PDT 1996
Article: 55148 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain’t
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:04:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 2 Aug 1996 09:02:41 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 7/29/96 at 14:43, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Imagine, with these hot underground flues running below the
>>floors of the crematoria, it must have been some pretty hot walking.
>>
>>Ooch – ouch.
>>
>> What the Holocasut story needs now is one of those ‘deus ex
>>machina’ testimonies relating how those in the facilities wore special
>>high lift insulated shoes.

>>While on 8/1/96 at 22:28, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[snip]

>>The ventilation period of 10 hours or so becomes irrelevant,
>>of course, if one uses gas masks, as were used by the
>>sonderkommando, or if the room is forcibly ventilated,
>>as in Kremas II and III.

> Then perhaps it is the 15 minutes work time, 30 minutes in the
>fresh air even
>with gas masks to avoid being poisoned through the skin that applies.
>As for
>the “forceable ventilation” that Polish winter air condenses it so we
>are back
>to skin poisoning.

> Of course some day someone will have to find drawings that
>specify or the
>orginal blowers to see if they were up to this task or were simply to
>keep the
>air flowing for the morgue workers.

That would be nice to find but so far there is absolutely no indication LK I
ever had a blower of any kind. No one has even found fittings or foundation
for the input side of the system where it would have been mounted. And
remember, it is electrical, it needs be protected from the elements so there
is a lot more than fittings and foundations that are nonexistant, such as a
drawing of the room that protected it from the elements.

And in the picture Pressac managed to dig up, one would expect to at least see
a power pole leading to the building to run the fan but there is none.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:46 PDT 1996
Article: 55152 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:16:31 GMT
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On Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:31:53 GMT, [email protected] (Ray Fischer) wrote:

> wrote:
>> [email protected] (Ray Fischer) wrote:

>>> Mostly I stick to just one or two newsgroups. Your claim
>>> appears to be nothing more than a baseless attack. Why?
>>
>>Is that why this was posted to:

>You deleted the claim I was responding to. Why?
>Intentional dishonesty? The claim was that I “cruise” the newsgroups.

>>> Because I’ve violated the rules of the thought-police?
>>
>>No, because you’re a liar. 9 newsgroups is NOT “just one or two.”

>And you use out-of-context quotes to lie about people. I didn’t set
>the list of newsgroups, and I don’t even know who’s reading what from
>where. If you think that retaining the list of newsgroups in a
>followup is “cruising” the newsgroups than you are a fool as well as a
>liar.

These holohuggers are deliberatedly doing in order to create an “abuse” claim
against those they want to lose access to the internet. It is an old game.

What needs to be done is not to delete the inappropriate conferences but to
post is doing it to the conferences. I have one example who even cancelled
the message where he started it in hopes it could not be traced to him.
Fortunately it was still on my disk.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:47 PDT 1996
Article: 55153 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:16:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 2 Aug 1996 08:59:42 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 7/30/96 at 22:11, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]
>>
>>>The ventilation period of 10 hours or so becomes irrelevant,
>>>of course, if one uses gas masks, as were used by the
>>>sonderkommando, or if the room is forcibly ventilated,
>>>as in Kremas II and III.
>>
>> Then perhaps it is the 15 minutes work time, 30 minutes in the
>fresh air even
>>with gas masks to avoid being poisoned through the skin that applies. As for
>>the “forceable ventilation” that Polish winter air condenses it so we are back
>>to skin poisoning.
>>

>But then the HCN would evaporate off the still warm corpses, into “that
>Polish winter air” again, where it would still be flushed via natural
>convection.

It is called condensation on the walls. Everything coming off of the bodies
simply migrate to the cooler walls and ceiling that were of course being
cooled by the zero to sub-zero air, as were the bodies being cooled.

>Greg Raven tried various tacks on this issue better than 4 yrs ago, and
>was shot down, too. So, don’t feel too bad about your inability to
>score a point. Of course, Raven’s arguments had a far greater
>appearance of rationality.

I have no idea what he posted back then. Given the technical knowledge
exhibited on this conference, it is unlikely anyone was able to determine any
such thing. But, should you have a technical response, please post it. It
will be quite a change of pace from the usual nerfbrains who think they have a
technical opinion.

>> They are ventilated with heated air, just like the Degesh
>delousing chambers
>>were. It is very old technology.

>Not as old as the “technology” of a mammalian (i.e., warm-blooded)
>body. A full gassing chamber would have a large heating component
>present in the fresh corpses.

You need to learn something about turbulent mixing some day. It will be good
for you.

>Don’t bother replying; you’re apparently incapable of a rational
>response.

How would you know?

>Sent with an evaluation copy of Cindy’s Newsmailer v1.1.

BTW: Your attempts at spamming that thing are not reaching here.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:48 PDT 1996
Article: 55154 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:40:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 01 Aug 1996 19:54:43 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >>The rivers meander (are snaking) in the area indicating a very slow current.
>> >>Ashes would not be washed away. The would have sunk to the bottom and still
>> >>be there.
>>
>> > Another unsupported assertion from a confessed liar who has made many
>> >provable errors.
>>
>> May I suggest you look at a map of the area?

>Yeehaw! Finally, Matt stumbles into my science. I knew ’twas but a matter
>of time.

>Meandering streams indicate that said water is flowing across a relatively
>flat plain, usually the flood plain of the river. Matt is correct in that
>a meandering stream usually indicates *relatively* slow water flow, due to
>the fact that the gradient the stream moves through is low, say a few feet
>every few miles. However, this does not suddenly mean that the stream in
>question stops carrying sediments. Moreover, this ignores annual events
>like spring floods which tend to move a great deal of material far more
>quickly.

Except that since we have the Internet Cremation Society actually describing
the “ash” as not really being ash and since we have holohuggers introducing
bone grinding to the fineness of a 1 cm sieve we are not talking about
particulate sediment here. That is in approximate agreement with the ICS.

We are talking about “ashes” that are many orders of magnitude larger than
sediment.

For all practical purposes you might as well be talking about the river moving
small pebbles. And since this is your speciality, you know the dynamics will
be that the sediment will move leaving these small objects behind much as the
stone lined stream bed.

>Let us see what a river can transport in an extreme case and then get back
>to the Vistula, shall we?

Search for the Internet Cremation Society and learn what you are talking about
moving. Then get back to me.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:49 PDT 1996
Article: 55155 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:47:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 2 Aug 1996 14:18:02 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/1/96 at 19:54, Keith Morrison wrote:

>>the width of the Amazon. Assuming the Amazon to be 90 meters deep and
>>the Vistula, say, 15 meters means that its cross section is .0003125
>>the size of the Amazon’s. Given the same water speed, the Vistula will
>>therefore carry .0003125 times the water volume. Assuming the same
>>sediment carrying capacity, in twenty-four hours the Polish river will
>>move (.0003125*3000000) 937 tonnes of sediment. For convenience, we’ll
>>round this off to 900 tonnes/day past an arbitray point. This means
>>that in two years (730 days), 657 000 tonnes of sediment can be moved
>>past this arbitrary point. Given an average person massing 70 kilos,
>>this represents the equivalent of 9 390 000 bodies.

>Good work, Keith, but for one thing: the ash of an avg. human is
>approx. 1-2 kg, not 70 kg.

It has been posted here before. 2-3 kg.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: How many tons of bone fragments?
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 02:31:58 GMT

http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml

Dec 26, 1995 @
Q. What’s left after a body is cremated? It’s ash, but what size are the
pieces? Are they fine, like
dust, or larger? Can you still see pieces of bone or teeth?

A. Tony, After the cremation process is complete, all that is left is
very brittle bone fragments.
Many of the bones are still distinguishable although not fully in tact.
Technically, there are no
ashes left at all but the term “ashes” is used to describe what is
referred to as cremated remains
or cremains. The pieces of bone fragments are then processed into a fine
powder and placed in
the urn selected. What remains after the cremation process is
approximately 5 to 7 pounnds of
cremated remains.

800,000 at Treblinka x 5 lbs = 4,000,000 lbs = 2000 tons of bone
fragments missing. Buried in a 5 acre area. 400 tons of bone fragments
per acre, approximately 15 pounds of bone fragments per square foot.

1,200,000 at Auschwitz. 3000 tons of bone fragments capable of passing
through a 1 centimeter mesh.

My thank again to Van Alstine for this website.

=====

>FYI, a denier in another forum of debate stated, in March 1992 that the
>total ash production from Auschwitz would have been 800 m^3, if
>non-denier death estimates were correct. Try plugging these figures
>in; you may manage to reduce Giwer to incoherence.

>Did I say “incoherence?” I meant silence…

>The first happened long ago.

This is the correct calculation. Whoever posted that was way under, by a
factor of five at least.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

You will recall from last time we has 2000 tons of bone fragments from
Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find. That was based upon the
internet cremation society’s statement of 5-7 pound of bone fragements
remaining after cremation and I used 5 pounds so as not to exaggerate
the number.

2-7-96 @
Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has asked me to
design and
fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I have no idea where to start.Do
you have design
specifications?

A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size adult,
the urn should have a
capacity of at least 205 cubic inches. Beyond that requirement, any
shape, size and design is
acceptable and the only limitations is your imagination.

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to find at
Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz. This latter
is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it would cover three
acres about one foot deep. However there a convenient river there that
has never been probed.

So back to Treblinka. There we have a 45 foot cube. Thus we have
enough to cover the five acres at Trblinka to a depth of 3.5 inches with
bone fragments. But of course they were buried so at some point coring
would find a 3.5 inch thick layer of bone fragments.

But of course folks like Keren keep muttering about 27 foot deep core
fragments. So let me address that for our applied mathematician. The
false assumption is that 27 feet means anything. He assumes that 27
feet means distributed over the 27 foot core. The fallacy of that
assumption is that a 1000 foot core would not imply a 1000 distribution.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or layers of
these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the layers.
It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:49 PDT 1996
Article: 55156 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:26:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:81575 alt.revisionism:55156

On Mon, 31 Jul 1996 11:16:34 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Stefan Schneider wrote:
>>
>>As I showed you, there is no problem with the temperature at all. So why
>>do you post this silly allegation again, when you it’s already shown to be
>>of no value?

> You can of course evaporate HCN from Zyklon B at various temperatures, but
>the higher the temperature the faster and thereby the more efficient it will
>be. I think that the nazis would have chosen the most efficient method. In
>the USA gassing of people had been tested many times in execution
>gaschambers. Why wouldn’t the Germans have taken a closer look at the
>American experience instead of trying to apply an insecticide, which is what
>Zyklon B really is.

You have to realize the Nazi mindset. When they wanted to do something new,
and as we know from the Auschwitz Museum (below) Eichmann and Hoess had
decided to use a gas but they did not know which one. So rather than
researching gasses used for executions, they played around with anything that
came along until they found something at work.

And then, as all the holohuggers insist, LK I was resigned to be a gas chamber
but, according to the mindset, the designers were permitted no access to any
“foreign” technology nor were they permitted to know even the slightest thing
about the gas that was going to be used.

It all helps explain why they lost the war. They were just so stupid.

=====

“The gassing was carried out in the detention cells of Block 11. Proctected by
a gas mask, I watched the killing myself. In the crowded cells, death came
instantaneously the moment the Zyklon B was thrown in. A short, almost
smothered cry, and it was all over…. I must even admit that this gassing
set my mind at rest, for the mass
extermination of the Jews was to start soon, and at that time neither Eichmann
nor I was certain as to how these mass killings were to be
carried out. In would be by gas, but we did not know which gas and how it was
to be used. Now we had the gas, and we had established a procedure.” “KL
Auschwitz seen by the SS Hoess, Broad, Kremer”, second edition, Museum w
Oswiecimu, 1978, pp. 92-95.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:50 PDT 1996
Article: 55157 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:36:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Mon, 31 Jul 1996 20:01:07 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] wrote:
>>In article , [email protected] (Ole
>>Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In the USA there has been built a special holocaust museum in
>>> spite of the fact that the American Jews have never suffered any
>>> particular harm and have always been among the most well educated
>>> and affluent. One could ask oneself whether it had been more
>>> appropriate if there were built a museum for the fate of the Red
>>> Indians or the Negro slavery. Why has the sufferings of Jews an
>>> exceptional position in proportion to other ethnic groups?
>>>
>>
>>Dear Ole:
>>
>>Since you don’t live in America, and have extremely limited knowledge of
>>American history, this is quite a statement.

> Well I have stayed in the USA for alltogether around a year and I have past
>a course in American history at the University of Copenhagen.

>>I suppose you are NOT familiar with the quota system that denied American
>>Jews entrance into American colleges and universities.

> It is still a fact that the American Jews have always been
>overrepresented among the wealthiest and most well educated in the USA. You
>better be happy that the Jews are not registered as an ethnic group in the
>USA, because in that case you may face some problems with affirmative
>action. What about some affirmative in e.g. Hollywood in favour of
>Gentiles or in the massmedia as well as in banking and finance?

Actually he is bringing up a “temple myth” that there was ever a quota system
of any interest in any American University. They have always existed but they
have been for “other” purposes, largely pious frauds as was the recently
killed racial quotas.

Quotas by religion certainly existed but they were are institutions that had a
religious orientation at the time, Harvard as an example. No quota was
against Jews any more than it was against any other religion. I mix was
sought and it was obtained. There were even Indians in most of the quota
mixes.

>>I would call that “particular” harm. The fact that people managed to get
>>around it (my father, for instance, attended medical school in Scotland),
>>says something about the resiliency and intelligence of Jews.
>>
>>I suppose you are NOT familiar with the swastiksa painted on synagogues,
>>or the vandalism done to Jewish cemetaries.
>>
> In fact I am. I stayed in Iowa in the winter and spring 1994. A Swastika
>and some political slogan was painted on a synagoge in Des Moines. This
>silly incident caused a lot of fuss. It turned out that it was just some
>unserious youth gang that had done it. The police told that in most such
>cases it is just teenagers and even children that wish to provoke or
>whatever. Here in DK you often see swastikas, hammers and sickles and
>various obscenities which nobody take seriously. People know that it is
>just teenageboys that are behind.

But in the US, as you learned, it becomes a media event. You did not say how
long ago it was but in this decade, the majority of case resolutions I have
heard of have been as you describe or worse. We just had a racist swastika
painting on an army barracks. The perp was black.

The media dropped it at that point so I may never find his motivation.

If you read of a synagogue with swastikas painted on it, odds are it is Jewish
teenagers. Maybe they are getting tired of the crap.

>>I would call that “particular” harm.
>>
>>Finally, I assume you’ve never heard of the “Museum of the American
>>Indian” in New York City (actually, it may be in the Bronx, I don’t have
>>the address with me). It houses one of the most expectional collections of
>>Native American artifacts in the world.
>>
>>Are you willing to write a second letter to the editor of the moderate
>>leftwinged Danish newspaper admitting your mistakes?
>>
>As far as I know the holocaust museum is not mentioning anything about the
>treatment of the Jews in the USA allthough it is situated there. To me
>it seems absurd to build a big and expensive museum in the USA for the
>alleged treatment of Jews solely outside the USA.

It was a pressure group and we had a wimp as a president at the time, Jimmy
Carter. Carter had the ability to cave at the slightest suggestion of moral
indignation. He was a born again, nutcase who saw flying saucers and was
attacked by a killer rabbit. And those were his good points. He was only
elected because of Nixon and Watergate.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55160 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:50:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4s59e1$l9f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4t2[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <25JUL199609091980@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4ti50[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-18.ix.netcom.com
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On 2 Aug 1996 15:15:47 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 7/29/96 at 10:49, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> Of course. That is the only way holohuggers can deal with the
>truth — delete
>>it.
>>
>> I am rather surprised it has not been done before.

>I don’t know about the others, but I wouldn’t miss anything you say for
>the world! I’m currently compiling your various posts into a
>screenplay. Once it’s completed, I shall ask PeeWee Herman to star as
>Matt Giwer, as it is he who’s best suited for the job.========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

2-7-96 @
Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has asked me to
design and
fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I have no idea where to start.Do
you have design
specifications?

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

This gives us roughly 3500 cubic yards of bone fragments to fine at
Treblinka and some 5200 cubic yards of them at Auschwitz. This latter
is a cube 52 feet on a side. On the other hand it would cover three
acres about one foot deep. However there a convenient river there that
has never been probed.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or layers of
these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the layers.
It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55181 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:19:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On 31 Jul 96 20:48:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Mauving right along] [Wed 31 Jul 96 05:16][Wed 31 Jul 96 14:05][0]*>

> mnc> It is amazing that a pretend aculturated human being
> mnc> pretends that cyanide will not kill flies, maggots and the eggs.

>How do insect eggs breath, Matt?

That is a question to which the answer is rather complex. Rather than attempt
to answer it myself I refer you to any holohugger post explaining how or to a
text on the subject.

Although insect eggs vary widely they are not like chicken eggs and do
metabolize the atmosphere in their development.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55185 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Praises Jews
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:09:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tb[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:40:58 GMT, [email protected] (Robert) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Ehrlich606 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>The same Hitler who had issued ruthless orders for the execution of
>>>the Soviet commissars was by no means as hostile as Goebbels desired
>>>toward western Europe’s more cultivated Jews. He heard Hitler speak
>>>warmly of both the composer Gustav Mahler and the producer Max Reinhardt
>>>(Max Goldmann), and concede that in their performances the Jews were often
>>>*not bad.* p. 369
>>>
>>>Source: Irving, David, *Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich* Focal
>>>Point: 1996;
>>>US Distributor: IHR, PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 Fx: 714 631 0981
>>>(copied from back flyleaf)
>>>
>>>COMMENT: definitely hard to believe, keyed to a Goebbel’s Diary entry of
>>>12/22/1940.
>>>Max Reinhardt was _very_ important in the German theater: he co-founded
>>>the Salzburg Festival.

>>22 December 1940 (Sunday)

>>…

>>We discuss issues affecting the theatre. The Fu”hrer is very
>>interested. He explains such phenomena as Mahler or Max Reinhardt,
>>whose abilities and achievements he does not deny. The Jew can
>>often be quite successful when it comes to mimicry.

>>_The Goebbel’s Diaries 1939-1941_, translated by Fred Taylor, p. 214,
>>Putnam and Sons, New York (1983).

>>My Comment: Irving seems to interpret this comment as more complimentary
>>than would be expected. Perhaps, Irving is a fan of mimicry.

>>Regards,

>>Rich Green
>>–
>>———————————————————————-
>>Richard J. Green Dept. of Chemistry
>>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU Stanford University
>>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>> “Remember the days of yore,
>> “Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you.”
>> -Deuteronomy 32:7

>Hitler did fear the jews becaus he thought of them as serious enemies
>therefore he had a certain amount of “respect for them”..to call
>Goebbles the mastermind of Hitlers thinking and to state that he was
>more hatefilled that hitler is a lot of crap..quite the contrary is
>true if anything..Goebbels had an even more “scientific” approach
>towards anti-Semitism..(read his diaries where he said ..as he did
>openly as well..that ..if one would be just and anti-Semite for some
>”emotional reason” that would be a bad and and oudated thing to do..
>he according to the ideology of the Nazis said many times
>”I am an anti-Semite because i am a SOCIALIST)…
>(and that is true..as many socialists..where and still are
>anti-Semites..)
>Greetings from Germany

What is most interesting about the “it is all Hitler’s fault” attitude is the
pretention that in some manner the Herr himself was in fact running every
aspect of his entire government. It is like looking at the government today
and thinking that the Chancellor is making all of the decisions.

Even more interesting, in time of war where Hitler is “credited” with
personally directing the war effort that he really had waking moments for much
more than the war effort. The last time I ran a war it took up most of my
time.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:53 PDT 1996
Article: 55187 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:12:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4tpq[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 2 Aug 1996 09:00:26 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/1/96 at 13:31, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>wrote:

>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>: Thank you lucky stars my father was released from the hospital
>>: yesterday. And : he went in after your call.
>>:
>>: There was a lot of luck in that one.
>>:
>>: Before I forget, he had the first ulcer in his life.
>>
>>Your father developed an ulcer (in two weeks, yet–a medical miracle!)
>>because somebody called him and asked for your phone number?
>>
>>Sensitive chap. Why do I think you’re lying, Matt?
>>
>>Bill

>With Giwer for a son, he’s every right to an ulcer.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

2-7-96 @
Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has asked me to
design and
fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I have no idea where to start.Do
you have design
specifications?

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or layers of
these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the layers.
It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:54 PDT 1996
Article: 55191 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 08:17:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 3:18:34 AM CDT 1996
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On 2 Aug 1996 15:13:19 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/1/96 at 13:31, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>wrote:

>With Giwer for a son, he’s every right to an ulcer.

>Termy aka Gary

>Sent with an evaluation copy of Cindy’s Newsmailer v1.1.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: dem bones again
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 04:08:01 GMT

2-7-96 @
Q. Do you have standard requirements for an urn? Someone has asked me to
design and
fabricate two urns for he and his wife. I have no idea where to start.Do
you have design
specifications?

Here we have the volume of this mass of bone fragments.

If they were buried then there would be a distinct layer or layers of
these bone fragments.

For those of you who may have missed it, a core preserves the layers.
It does not randomize the contents of the entire core.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:54 PDT 1996
Article: 55198 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 06:46:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 31 Jul 96 19:09:59 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:

>> I have tried two forfeiture cases.

>As a defence attorney I hope.

>>
>> I do not like most of the forfeiture law because of what it does to the > adminstration of justice. Our local D.A.s run not on the quality of their
>> trial work or
>> their administration of the justice system but on how much money they make
>> through confiscations. However, if the phamphlet to which you refer states
>> that
>> this is a possible scenario I suggest you locate “In re Shorty’s Cafe.”

>Which is what?

>> The
>> law
>> does not (at this moment) work in the manner you suggest.
>>
>> Read the law. Al, and the cases that apply it.

>I’ve come across a few horrifying cases, and the law is partially here, as
>far as drugs is concerned. The right of silence has been sort of abolished;
>courts are now permitted to draw inferences from silence. Check out Wollstein.
>The way I read civil asset forfeiture and some of the other legislation that
>has gone through recently is that the US Government now has a means of
>terrorising any individual or group – ethnic or otherwise – in a totally
>arbitrary manner. As Wollstein says, if a fist fight breaks out on a union
>premises, the entire assets of the union can be seized. People have lost their
>homes because a small amount of cannabis has been found on their premises,
>which may not be connected to them. If that’s not tyranny, what is?

The amusing thing about the US law is not that it can confiscate the property
(or cash) that arose from the crime but rather that property that was at one
time owned by a drug dealer can be confiscated from an innocent present owner.

If you do not mind a hypothethical case. A drug dealer takes a million in
drug profits and buys a home. But he his a bit off balance so he changes
homes every six months, selling and buying each time. Further he is not very
bright when it comes to real estage and always sells for his purchase price.
He does this for ten years before being caught.

20 houses can be confiscated. And if had just sold but not bought at the time
of arrest, the million dollars would be confiscated also.

And the worst of it is that it has been effectively approved by our Supreme
Court.

This may appear extreme to the point of ridiculous but then a single property
was taken from the present owner because three owners back it was bought wtih
drug money. Obviously since it was sold the dealer recovered his money, both
the property and the money were not both his assets at the time off
confiscation.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:55 PDT 1996
Article: 55208 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole’!
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 09:34:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 2:35:38 AM PDT 1996
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On 2 Aug 1996 15:11:13 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On Tue, 01 Aug 1996 09:02:18 +0100, [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
>wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, Sven Noltemeier wrote:
>>>
>>>So you think it is okay to humiliate your grandparents and their family,
>>>including you, after the state has murdered them and been spelling hatred
>>>against you and your kind, by denying that this has happened, or that your
>>>grandparents did not even live, and that your anger and grief is all pro-
>>>paganda.
>>>
>>My father and grandfather died both of cancer. If somebody claimed that
>>they died in a traffic accident would I then be humiliated? Even if I
>>became annoyed I would never regard it a crime.
>>
>>>The denial of the Shoah is a special, and very grave, case of crimes against
>>>the honour of the dead.
>>>
>> It has absolutely nothing to with crime. I do not feel that I have any
>>obligation to honour any dead. Furthermore I am not Jewish or German and
>>therefore do not identify me with these events.

>”I do not feel that I have any obligation to honour any dead.”

>Kewl! Where are your ancestors buried? Someone ’round here may wish
>to piss on their graves. SURELY you have no objection…

You mean no one can piss in the Vistula? A capitial offense or simply a
misdemeanor?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:56 PDT 1996
Article: 55209 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: L.A. Times & Auschwitz 4,000,000 & the Internet
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 09:38:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 2:39:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 2 Aug 1996 15:34:02 -0400, [email protected] (HistoryNOT) wrote:

>L.A. Times & Auschwitz 4,000,000 & the Internet

>BACKGROUND: In April 1994, the Houston Chronicle (a Hearst Paper)
>reported that WASPs had been deceived by Polak Commies all these years
>about the Auschwitz 4,000,000 – about the same time ordinary people gained
>access to the Internet via aol, CompuServe, prodigy, netcom, etc.

>Curious about how our smartest intellectuals could have been deceived by
>dumb, uneducated, few brain cells Polaks (Ann Landers & Mike Royko
>wrote that Polish people preferred to be called Polaks – not to be
>confused
>with Polacks which is the WASP pejorative form) the Where did the
>Auschwitz 4,000,000 figure come from question was presented to the many
>brain cell individuals in history usenet groups.

>Over a year has passed and not one Internet professor has had anything to
>offer – despite claims of great brain capacity – other than to call the
>question
> crazy and the questioner among other things a La Rouche

>ANSWER: The Los Angeles Times Wednesday Morning, July 30, 1975 with
>a front page picture of President Ford at Auschwitz accompanied by the
>caption – HOMAGE – President Ford places a wreath at monument at
>Auschwitz, Poland, where 4 million Jews died. It was the first visit by an
>American President to any of the Nazi death camps.

Homage? To what? Was it voluntary?

These were a bunch of “gas me don’t shoot me” wimps.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:57 PDT 1996
Article: 55221 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads,uk.politics,soc.culture.canada,alt.censorship.canada.dumb,za.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,misc.immigration,alt.personals.intercultural,soc.couples.intercultural
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:44:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <1004[email protected]> <4t4v[email protected]> <14[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <0413[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 01 Aug 1996 06:21:36 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>In soc.culture.jewish on Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:14:44 GMT
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) posted:

>>On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 04:09:41 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

>>>[email protected] writes:

>> Speaking of racists, the Olympic bombing suspect has been identified as a
>>white American male based upon a phone call. Presuming it was not a
>>picturephone just for the Olympics, the only thing they had to go on was
>>voice.
>I believe they said he sounded like a white american, not that he was
>one. It is important to notice these differences. They said he had no
>regional accent. Do you think that is impossible to know also.

If there were “no regional accent” that would exonerate the current favorite
suspect.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:58 PDT 1996
Article: 55236 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:43:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <1004[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 01 Aug 1996 15:14:24 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> And in the process to repeal more of the Bill of Rights. But what the hell,
>>it will be in a good cause.

>And you’ll get to spew more of your vile filth. Wunnerful.

Good ideas drive out bad. You are in the marketplace of ideas.

Your only basis for demanding censorship is that you can not compete.

Or is this too obvious for you?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:58 PDT 1996
Article: 55237 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:44:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 1 Aug 1996 13:31:20 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Thank you lucky stars my father was released from the hospital
>: yesterday. And : he went in after your call.
>:
>: There was a lot of luck in that one.
>:
>: Before I forget, he had the first ulcer in his life.

>Your father developed an ulcer (in two weeks, yet–a medical miracle!)
>because somebody called him and asked for your phone number?

>Sensitive chap. Why do I think you’re lying, Matt?

Because you did not talk to him after the tube went down his throat to take a
look at it. Is that clear enough?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:46:59 PDT 1996
Article: 55256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:43:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4s59e1$l9f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4t2[email protected]> <6bc[email protected]> <[email protected]> <29JUL1996065538[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-10.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:34:46 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> They archive it without permission. If a complete archive were maintained of
>> complete threads, all sides of all discussions, that would be a different
>> matter entirely. However, using the posts of others without their permission
>> is something that at least Compuserve holds to be impermssiable.

>1. This newsgroup is not called “MINE. MINE. MINE.”, Matt. It’s called a
>NEWSGROUP!!

>It is a BROADCAST mechanism.

>It is a PUBLIC DOMAIN broadcast mechanism.

>2. If Compuserve says don’t – let them stuff it where the sun don’t
>shine. They have no say for anybody who is not a member.

Rather ask after their legal reason for it.

>No, Matt – you’re stuck.

>Nizkor will keep your postings.

It is good to see you are speaking for Nizkor. Why?

>Your complaints are worth zero.

You legal opinion?

>You should make sure to quote enough and keep any messages that you
>reply to to assure that you don’t suffer from lack of context.

>BTW – with your selective quoting, I wouldn’t worry about the loss of
>context making you look bad. It makes you look *BETTER*!!

Your legal opinion?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:47:00 PDT 1996
Article: 55257 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TWA Flt 800
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:44:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31[email protected]> <28[email protected]> <31[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 3:45:15 PM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:53:08 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> The correct analogy is that since the reports of the gassing are incredible
>> therefore that does not explain the means of death.

>We’re still waiting for your proof, Matt.

Even a truly backwater engineer should know that proof is for math, not
science. You are truly taking a position that would lose you a bid should you
really want it.

>> As I have pointed out many times, it is rather difficult to explain how so
>> many survived with all the diseases running loose.

>Proof, Matt. Please prove your assertions.

Proof? Is this math?

>After all, if you want to make assertions without any proof but the
>statement itself, repeated dozens of times, I can out-repeat you any day
>and simply make comments about your personal habits – the way Dahlman
>always does!

>Let’s get some proof on the table, Matt.

>You assert, you prove.

>Oh, yes!

>If you do not answer in a reasonable time-frame, your silence will be
>taken as an admission that you were wrong and will be used in the future
>as such. There ain’t no 5th amendment here, Matt.

It is quite amazing that an expected experienced person would be expecting
proof in a field outside of mathematics. What was it that was lacking in your
education missing in your decades of experience?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:47:01 PDT 1996
Article: 55258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lets desigm a mass extermination gas chamber
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:43:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 3:44:56 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 31 Jul 96 20:40:04, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Wed 31 Jul 96 05:13][Wed 31 Jul 96 14:05][0]*>

> >> GIWERISM ALERT!!

> >> Sorry Matt – you blew it again and coverups or zig zags are not
> >> allowed.

> >> The gas chambers were heated by the equivalent of a few hundred
> >> incandescent light bulbs – known as human beings.

> mnc> As an engineer you know better than that regarding the
> mnc> introduction of Polish winter air.

>As a CANADIAN, in a climate as least as cold as Poland at its worst,
>I can and will say that the body heat of the victims was more than
>adequate.

>Go to Montreal, Matt. Go to Place Bonaventure Hotel and use their
>pool when the temperature is 10 below Farenheit. You will feel no
>chill, yet the pool area is entirely open at the top to the winter
>air and is not as heavily heated as you might think at first. BTW –
>the sides were merely a simple double-pane glass.

>Simple and straightforward – there was more than enough heat
>generated by the bodies of the victims.

>Any engineer would know that, Matt.

And as an engineer you know that bodies as heat exchangers are really shit.
You know the design factors for heat exchangers and were the air input from
the floors through the bodies you know it might have a chance of working.

But you know the ventilation system has to replace air faster than turbulent
mixing which is much faster than convection from the bodies can replace.

You do know this. You would certainly design this differently even as a first
cut. And then, you would know that you needed a ventilation system for LK
IIII and IV but this is none, even in the dead of Poland’s winter.

But then you, knowing engineering, have not begun to address any of these
issues. You are playing as ignorant as the holohuggers.

How about this. Lets you and I design a mass extermination gas chamber as
competing bidders on the same project.

But first the bid package.

1) Must be able to exterminate 3000 per hour without giving indication to the
next 3000 in line for extermination.

2) When in doubt refer to 1).

Agreed?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:47:01 PDT 1996
Article: 55260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:06:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4d0[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 1:07:38 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:42:54 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> > mnc> His supporters have posted his own statements exactly to
>> > mnc> that effect. You might take the time to read them.
>>
>> >I have seen nothing to the effect that Ken excludes Canada from
>> >Zundel’s right to free speech.
>>
>> Why is what you have seen of interest?

>Because it is of interest to all parties concerned – ME.

>I was responding with a challenge, Matt. If you have seen anything to
>contradict my statement present proof of your assertions – or admit to
>losing once again.

To repeat, McVay supports Zundel’s right to free speech but wants him
out of Canada for what he speaks.

And it is about time you get over the idea that there are winners and
losers in public debate. The lurkers are the audience.

>> Why is it that you will not go back to the failure of any relationship to
>> witness reports of gassing to the effects of gassing? Why does an engineer,
>> who can shed such great light upon this manner, REFUSE to disucss this matter
>> which is the one under discussion?

>Why should I contradict what I know is fact?

How do you know it is fact? Were you imbued with the knowledge?

Have you ever wondered how you had to learn engineering the hard way
but were born knowing all about this matter?

>I’ve already responded to this.

>You lost.

>Repetition does not make you a winner, Matt.

There are no winners or losers. There are only lurkers.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:47:02 PDT 1996
Article: 55261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:36:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 1:37:56 AM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:81631 alt.revisionism:55261 talk.politics.european-union:5275

On Sat, 03 Aug 1996 07:49:36 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Actually he is bringing up a “temple myth” that there was ever a
>quota system
>> of any interest in any American University. They have always existed but they
>> have been for “other” purposes, largely pious frauds as was the recently
>> killed racial quotas.
>>
>> Quotas by religion certainly existed but they were are
>institutions that had a
>> religious orientation at the time, Harvard as an example. No quota was
>> against Jews any more than it was against any other religion. I mix was
>> sought and it was obtained. There were even Indians in most of the quota
>> mixes.

>Mr. Giwer:
>
>You are a liar.

Why thank you.

There were many Anerican colleges and universities that
>had quotas for Jews.

And for Christians and for Indians. That is what I said.

>> If you read of a synagogue with swastikas painted on it, odds
>are it is Jewish
>> teenagers. Maybe they are getting tired of the crap.
>
>Mr. Giwer, you are a liar.

Thank you again, Schwartze.

>Please point out the “odds” as you have determined them. I’d like to see
>specific cases and examples, please.

As you know, specific cases can not support statistics.

>> It was a pressure group and we had a wimp as a president at the
>time, Jimmy
>> Carter. Carter had the ability to cave at the slightest suggestion of moral
>> indignation. He was a born again, nutcase who saw flying saucers and was
>> attacked by a killer rabbit. And those were his good points. He was only
>> elected because of Nixon and Watergate.

>Mr. Giwer, you are a liar.

Again, so many compliments from you it become embarrassing.

>Jimmy Carter was elected because he got the most votes.

You are very simple minded. It explains a lot.

And you have the tits to post in public.

Quite amazing.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 07:47:03 PDT 1996
Article: 55278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole’!
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 07:13:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 12:15:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 03 Aug 1996 21:54:28 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>[snip]
>> >>>
>> >> It has absolutely nothing to with crime. I do not feel that I have any
>> >>obligation to honour any dead. Furthermore I am not Jewish or German and
>> >>therefore do not identify me with these events.
>>
>> >”I do not feel that I have any obligation to honour any dead.”
>>
>> >Kewl! Where are your ancestors buried? Someone ’round here may wish
>> >to piss on their graves. SURELY you have no objection…
>>
>> You mean no one can piss in the Vistula? A capitial offense or simply a
>> misdemeanor?

>No, you pathetic little frustrated wanker, that’s not what I meant. Try
>again, without quite so many unwarranted leaps.

>Speaking of unwarranted leaps, your “credibility” would be increased by
>several hundred percent if you’d limits such leaps to one per post, one
>per assertion.

>On the other hand, increasing zero by several hundred percent still
>leaves zero.

>Gary aka Termy

With Termys like you who can not judge for lack of experience or
ability, what does it matter?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 08:12:06 PDT 1996
Article: 33889 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.good-morning,alt.flame,aus.flame.usa,alt.skinheads,alt.drunken.bastards,rec.drugs,soc.culture.malaysia,alt.nuke.the.USA
Subject: Re: Bollocks
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 04:02:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 96 22:58:03 GMT, Andrew/
wrote:

>The FAQ has now moved to a new URL.

>http://www.altairiv.demon.co.uk/antU.html

>Features:
> Illegal Links! Break US Law on-line!

Its a frigging faq. Where to you hide the law breaking?

> On-line Voting!
> See Hilary Klinton mocked!

Is that all?

> Become a Defector in FOUR easy lessons!
> Official Policy Statement from the Politburo!
> The tediousness of alt.(f)lame exposed!
>

> *********** ADVERTISMENT: *************

> After visiting this site why not dine at the Texas RoadKill
> Cafe? “You kill ’em, We grill ’em”
>
> ***************************************

That’s an Aggie joke.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:19 PDT 1996
Article: 55287 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:49:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:37:52 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >Secondly there is the fact that Nizkor does not distribute your garbage –
>> >they archive it without remuneration.
>>
>> Without permission, counselor. In which state are you licensed to practice?

>Fair use, Matt.

Execuse me, since when is fair use consider everything? Or is it the
effect of the cold on the english speaking Canadian brain that can not
comprehend this matter?

>I got *THAT* a long time ago from somebody licenced to appear before the
>”Queen’s Bench” – AKA all of Canada – and is qualified in the US too.

>Patents, Licenses and Copyrights are the life-blood of many industries,
>Matt.

Thank you for your Canadian legal advice. If anyone is truly stupid
enough to follow your advice it would be interesting to see what
happens if they point to it in a moment of stress.

>> >Thirdly, people who repost your crap to the Usenet are doing so in the
>> >context of a reply to you, and so are likely protected under the fair use
>> >provisions inherent in copyright law.
>>
>> Said context being removed by Nizkor. Are you really practicing law?
>>

>A contention that you’d have to prove, Matt.

>The only context that is needed is in the very headers of every message.

>Only in the case of a libel suit would any other context be needed, such
>as the message that you are purportedly responding to.

>Again – a context that you’d have to prove was missing.

>> >Fourthly there exists DejaNews, Alta Vista, and other archiving mechanisms
>> >on the Internet, of which you are aware, and you allow them to archive and
>> >distribute your junk without any special agreement.
>>
>> That is up to their lawyers.
>>
>> Ask after the lawyers at CI$.

>The lawyers at CIS are inconsequential. The claims of CIS are worthless,
>since they are not Congress or Parliament.

Parliament does not apply in the US and never will. We are armed.

But you really should look after their reasons simply for your own
education.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:21 PDT 1996
Article: 55290 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:44:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f614a6.[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
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On Sat, 03 Aug 1996 18:11:55 GMT, [email protected] (Miloslav
Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Perhaps when there a translation of the complete document available there will
>>be something to ignore. But as you were concealing the other document which
>>said wood pulp while claiming it supported you there is nothing we can take
>>upon your word for the contents at this point.

>We have now five good reasons to say that no gassings occured:

>1/ you said that the carrier was kitter litter, no silica gel, and
>that kitter litter was red-brown, so the witnesses describing
>blue-mauve pellets were wrong.

>2/ you said that silica gel is white, so the witnesses describing
>blue-mauve pellets were wrong.

>3/ you said that the releasing rate of silica gel was too slow, so the
>witnesses describing blue-mauve pellets were wrong.

>4/ you said that blue is not mauve, so the witnesses describing
>blue-mauve pellets were wrong.

>5/ you say now that the carrier was wood pulp (please document it for
>Zyklon-B specifically, no another kinds of Zyklon), so the witnesses
>describing blue-mauve pellets were wrong.

>It sounds like the old freudian joke about the cauldron: “I never
>borrowed it; the cauldron was soon damaged; I brought back the
>cauldron and it was not damaged at this time”.

I have an even better reason to ignore you. I never said 1), 2), or
3) so whoever you are talking about is not me.

Pay attention to the NG or don’t jump in and waste bandwidth.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55291 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 05:53:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 174
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
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On Sat, 03 Aug 1996 22:45:18 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>> <*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>> <+[listen up, Alec G.] [Sat 03 Aug 96 03:50][Sat 03 Aug 96 05:03][0]*>
>>
>> mnc> You will recall from last time we has 2000 tons of bone
>> mnc> fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
>> mnc> That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement
>> mnc> of 5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I
>> mnc> used 5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.
>>
>> Matt, we’ve been here.
>>
>> You already lost the argument. You’ve set up a straw man and knocked
>> it down. Whoopie!
>>
>> Then your contnetion was knocked down so thoroughly that it no
>> longer comes close.
>>
>> Using the records of dumping in the nearby river and the
>> calcualtions of a professional we quickly arrive at the ability of
>> eliminating the remains of 50 times the total number murdered – let
>> alone the number murdered in the extermination camps.
>>
>> So you restate the old argument.
>>
>> Repeating seems to be all that you have left.
>>
>> You are sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes
>> closed and yelling “IS TOO! IS TOO!”
>>
>> Grow up, Matt!
>>
>> Provide evidence for your contentions or admit that they go nowhere,
>> fast.
>>

> The following message (c) 1992 G. R. Raper, Jr. which is when I
>first posted it on GEnie. Note that I don’t even mention the Vistula,
>yet manage pretty thoroughly to debunk this particular denier myth.
>Matt, you paying attention? Should I email this to you?

>In Message #167, Hans-Peter writes:
>
>”1) Cremation leaves a residue of between 1 to 2 kg of mineral ash. The
>remains of 1.5 million people would be a minimum of 1.5 million
>kilograms of
>ash or 1500 tonnes, occupying a volume of 800 m^3, a fairly considerable
>mountain. This has never been found at the site.”
>
>
>Whew, that sounds pretty awesome, doesn’t it? 800 cubic meters is a lot
>of ash!
>
>Or…is it?
>
>Let’s look at it from another perspective, by breaking the numbers down
>into more
>usable chunks and applying them to common objects.
>
>800 cubic meters. That’s a box 8 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or, to put it
>another way,
>mark out a square on the ground that is 10 m. on a side. stack 1 cubic
>meter boxes
>within that square to a height of 8 m., and you’ll have 800 boxes.
>
>Still sounds pretty impressive, doesn’t it? After all, that’s a square
>about 33 feet
>on a side, and the boxes rise over 25 feet in the air.
>
>Pretty big, isn’t it? Let’s do a little more simple math, mostly
>multiplication and
>division, and see just a bit more clearly what we’re talking about.
>
>A football field is 100 yds. Let’s snitch a little from the endzones
>and make it an
>even 100 meters. It’s 50 yards wide…add the broad white stripes found
>on
>professional and college fields to make it an even 50 meters.
>
>100 m. x 50 m = 5000 square meters.
>
>Let’s take that 800 cubic meters of ash and spread it out over 5000 sq.
>meters:
>
>800 m^3 / 5000 m^2 = .16 m.
>
>Translating that to words, if you take that 800 cubic meters and spread
>them over
>a football field (plus a smidgin), they’ll be .16 meters deep.
>
>16 centimeters = .16 meter, and there’re 2.54 cm to the inch, so:
>
>16 cm / 2.54 = 6.2999 inches
>
>Suddenly, our 800 m^3 mountain seems less peakish than peckish.
>
>Another way of looking at it is to look at the size of a common freeway
>underpass,
>where the roadway going underneath was excavated. Chances are, a little
>simple
>eyeball measuring will show that it’s at least a hundred yards long, and
>the depth
>will reach as much as 20 or 30 feet.
>
>Compare that to a small-sized ravine in hilly country. Suddenly, the
>question isn’t
>”WHERE did they hide the ashes?” but “Where DID they hide the ashes?”
>
>So, when next you run across a Holocaust revisionist who brings this
>point up, you
>will have the knowledge needed to show where he errs. Though the entire
>discussion is somewhat gruesome, there is a hidden beauty, within the
>numbers:
>you can allow him to double, even treble the cubic meters required to
>contain the
>ash, and the “mountain” really grows very little; all you need do is add
>another
>football field or two, or another ravine or two. With a whole
>countryside to work
>in, the Nazis doubtless had any trouble finding ravines or shallow
>depressions
>which “needed filling”.

First off your basic numbers are at odds with people who know
something about cremation. Again, the internet cremation society for
openers.

Second you have not thought through the mechanics of dumping the 1 cm
sieve “ashes” into the local lakes (without flow) and the river. (Not
to mention using them on icy walkways and the like.)

Third you have not addressed the ashes, clinkers and such, from the
coke itself, given that it starts at 70 kg per body it should
certainly have ashes on the same order as the “human” ashes thus
doubling the real amount that are there to be found.

And after these obvious points you have missed the main point, no
ashes have been reported found by any “investigator.”

Now it is clear that there were deaths from disease and they were
cremated it is interesting that not even the coke ashes have been
reported having been found. Of course that means no one is looking.

It has been interesting to see so many people running down the road of
claiming the human “ashes” can not be found when in fact no one has
been looking for any ashes of any kind.

Remember some day the following true statement. There has been
exactly one examination that even mimics forensics and another one
that is a professional embarrassment by an organization that can not
be ascertained to even exist.

LOOKING FOR the ashes would be elementary to a forensic investigation.

But as reality would have it the fact is that any such investigation
would be challenged as being questioning the unquestionable. Further
what would be the value of any such investigation when reporting a
negative result in personal attacks and professional villification.

Rather more interesting is what has happened. Primarily writers, but
a few historians and one pharmacist have written about it (and if
lucky having visited at least once what they are writing about) to
ascertain the details of HOW a given conclusion happened rather than
WHAT happened.

As you should expect, it gets worse than this but enough for now.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:23 PDT 1996
Article: 55293 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 07:01:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2318 alt.revisionism:55293

On Sat, 03 Aug 1996 16:36:01 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> These holohuggers are deliberatedly doing in order to create an
>”abuse” claim
>> against those they want to lose access to the internet. It is an old game.
>>
>> What needs to be done is not to delete the inappropriate
>conferences but to
>> post is doing it to the conferences. I have one example who even cancelled
>> the message where he started it in hopes it could not be traced to him.
>> Fortunately it was still on my disk.
>
>Nice to see that your ability to communicate is still as horrendous as
>always, Mr. Giwer.

As you are admitting you can not understand what I am saying, to what
do you think you are replying?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 55303 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:23:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4tn[email protected]> <4to1j1$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
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On Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:08:21 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

On 31 Jul 1996 12:28:17 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein)
wrote:

> Suppose the body were at the periphery of the pyre, head out.

>> Then the rarity of the find, in combination with the common findings would
>> tend to support the case but only AFTER major excavations. But note that Alec
>> is leaving you hanging on this one as he knows better.

>But!

>1. It was the last “run”, done in haste, as the Russians approached –
>thus it is possible that the burn was incomplete.

Holohuggers say that all gassing was stopped months before the
Russians showed up. So we are only discussing cremation, not gassing.
So if that is the answer, it has nothing to do with gassing, only
getting rid of the the dead for obvious sanitation reasons.

>2. I left no one hanging. Flammability does not mean no residue. These
>were remains in the ovens, so they would not have been disturbed after
>burning.

Hair means hair. Burnd hair means burnt hair. As you have certainly
seen many examples of that in your life. You wuold certainly be most
interested in the chemical analysis that determined its existence.
You certainly would not have simply accepted either hair or hair ashes
on face value without quite a bit of backup.

>Yes, I do know better – than you.

>But you knew that.

Of course, you worked like hell to learn engineering but you were born
with a knowledge of the truth of the holocaust. That means you were
born with the knowledge of steaming, electrocution and suffocation.
But you simply forgot about those IMT established methods over the
years.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:25 PDT 1996
Article: 55306 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 06:37:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4tn[email protected]> <4to0ft$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:11:42 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Alec is leaving you hanging again. You are usefull to him. Keep it up.

>False again, Matt. I *SAID* that I was busy, didn’t I?

AFTER you said you were busy your posts tripled at least.

>Further, I saw Mike’s message and saw no reason to refute it.
>Particularly since he challenged you to *PROPERLY* counter my message or
>else admit defeat.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:26 PDT 1996
Article: 55312 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 04:36:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 9:37:20 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 03 Aug 96 11:20:56, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[listen up, Alec G.] [Sat 03 Aug 96 03:50][Sat 03 Aug 96 05:03][0]*>

> mnc> You will recall from last time we has 2000 tons of bone
> mnc> fragments from Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find.
> mnc> That was based upon the internet cremation society’s statement
> mnc> of 5-7 pound of bone fragements remaining after cremation and I
> mnc> used 5 pounds so as not to exaggerate the number.

>Matt, we’ve been here.

>You already lost the argument. You’ve set up a straw man and knocked
>it down. Whoopie!

>Then your contnetion was knocked down so thoroughly that it no
>longer comes close.

>Using the records of dumping in the nearby river and the
>calcualtions of a professional we quickly arrive at the ability of
>eliminating the remains of 50 times the total number murdered – let
>alone the number murdered in the extermination camps.

>So you restate the old argument.

>Repeating seems to be all that you have left.

>You are sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes
>closed and yelling “IS TOO! IS TOO!”

>Grow up, Matt!

>Provide evidence for your contentions or admit that they go nowhere,
>fast.

All that time I thought you were merely playing games with Dahlman.
It appears now that this is all you ever had.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:27 PDT 1996
Article: 55314 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:43:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f614a6.14[email protected]> <4tcs0j$l5n@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <31fa164d.9386[email protected]> <4ti5f0[email protected]> <4tp8ru[email protected]> <4tpo[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Aug 03 3:45:12 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 1 Aug 1996 22:07:14 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Do you really wish to continue to advertise the conspiratorital libel
>>of Nizkor?

> Threatening to sue again, Prince Myshkin?

It that is truly a quesion, only a real idiot could inger it

> Derek
>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:28 PDT 1996
Article: 55335 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:31:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t6[email protected]> <4t7[email protected]> <4t7a[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:32:52 PM PDT 1996
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On 25 Jul 1996 12:26:14 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 25 Jul 1996 05:56:31 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>This
>>>statement is a clear admission of defamation even under the standards of NYT
>>>v. Sullivan. And, of course, you used what you knew to be a false charge in an
>>>attempt to intimidate someone.
>>
>> Really? Is there anyone who would hire you after this post?

> You should be more worried about whether anyone would hire you. You
>say you do not need a job now. But do you have psychic powers that you
>know what the future will bring?

It is not a likely thing to happen. I may want a job some day. Probably
will. So what is your point?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:30 PDT 1996
Article: 55361 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Subject: Re: are you a bigot?
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:13:04 GMT
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 14:59:34 -0700, bud wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:30:26 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:45:32 -0700, bud wrote:
>>
>> >>If you don’t know who “invented” this “misnomer” how do you know
>> >>he/she/it/they were/are “Jew-hater’s?” Get real and drop the persecution
>> >>complex everytime somebody tells some truth in relation to you or your
>> >>selction religion. Christians have to deal with it all the time.
>> >The Term “AntiSemite was coined by Wilhelm Marr, and if you had read
>> >anything about him you would have known that, but you didn’t
>> >dudrite, what a maroon.
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>> >Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>> >interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>> >plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>> >accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>> >see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>> >they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>> >conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>> >integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>> >respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>> >URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt
>>
>> >P. GROFF
>> ========
>> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>> Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
>> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT
>>
>> ” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
>> entrances to the four-story
>> house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
>> the same people were
>> forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
>> had to be transferred to one
>> place in the courtyard. ”
>> IMT VII – p.491.

>Hey…! Are you disagreeing with me?! Are you a bigot? Are you one of
>those “Christian-hating” anti-Christianists?
>–
>”The judgement of history depends on who writes it” (Richard Nixon)

You repeat the mantra you get one of the real true fact holocaust
stories. How many of them would you like?

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:31 PDT 1996
Article: 55363 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:27:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 15:14:29 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>Question:
> The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
>is:

> A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?

> B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>money.

C: In the hope that after every succeeding holocaust, that if they
redouble their efforts, it will prevent the next one, i.e., simple
stupidity.

Remember, never substitute conspiracy when simple stupidity will
explain everything.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 21:51:32 PDT 1996
Article: 55375 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:54:15 GMT
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What is interesting about the claims of mass extermination
by gassing is that all such claims were generated by the
Russians. It is also interesting that at no time did the
Russians present any forensic evidence of even small time gassing
much less mass gassing. It is even more interesting that at no
time did the Russians provide any forensic evidence of even the
number of bodies required to support claims of mass gassing.

From [email protected] Sun Aug 4 23:16:13 PDT 1996
Article: 422610 of talk.politics.misc
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: dc.politics,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,dc.politics,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa
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Given that Kenneth Starr has said he will put off indicting the
Clintons until after the election, would it not be appropriate to
consider that

A Vote for Clinton is a Vote for Gore?

Out of curiosity, when was there a time in the past when there was a
possibility to indict a president before an election? Nixon may have
done a lot but I do not remember any particular federal indictments
involved. The burglary and such would be covered by DC law. The
coverup was a political problem.

So when did the Justice Department formulate the policy that Starr
says he is following? When was the other time that there was a
possible DOJ indictment this close to an election?

If it was Nixon, what was the possible indictment?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:11 PDT 1996
Article: 55402 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Subject: Re: some quotes that need consideration…
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:17:19 GMT
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On 4 Aug 1996 16:13:59 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>bud ([email protected]) whines:

> Albert Einstein said: “Anti-Semitism is nothing but the
> antagonistic attitude produced in the non-Jew by the Jewish
> group. The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and on the
> antagonism it has forever met in the world.” (Collier’s
> Magazine, Nov. 26, 1938) Einstein was describing their common
> use of “chutzpah” for their own gain and profit while crying
> “persecution.”

>Einstein was desribing the enormous contributions Jews like himself
>have made to society in spite of all the “oppression and… antagonism”
>we have encountered at the hands of society.

>Mr. Bud does not believe we Jews deserve to “gain and profit” from our
>contributions, as any other people have a right to expect. And he
>sneers at the persecution of Jews, totally oblivious to the fact that
>his very sneers are his own small contribution to that very persecution.

It is interesting that you feel persecuted. When did these feelings
start? Have you ever consulted a professional about your feelings?

>He who divorces his wife is hated before God.
> — The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

So that is why so many refuse to give their wives religious divorces.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:12 PDT 1996
Article: 55407 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 02:12:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 17:37:13 +0000, Chuck Ferree
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Question for our resident expert on “you name it!”

>Gywer, do you have any clues that would give you cause to believe that
>anyone reading your silly, rambling posts, gives a shit?

>You’re a simple troll, Gywer, and not a very good one at that.
>Chuck
>>
>> On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 16:00:08 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> Except that since we have the Internet Cremation Society actually describing

I never assumed you were capable of rational thought. And to think
the army actually entrusted you with an armed airplane at one time.
It is truly amazing.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:13 PDT 1996
Article: 55410 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: lawsuit threats
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 09:05:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <4siea[email protected]> <4ss[email protected]> <4t0elf$3aic@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <[email protected]>
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On 27 Jul 1996 11:43:41 GMT, [email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>>There will not be a lawsuit from Giwer. He is too gutless and he knows
>full
>>well that he will be thrown out of court on his ass, assuming he can
>find a
>>lawyer to take the case, which I very much doubt.
>>However, if he should be so stupid as to try it anyway, I can assure
>you
>>that my lawsuit, in the form of a counter-suit, will follow in 24 hours.

>>Thus, since he is so terrified of me, you can be sure there will be no
>>lawsuit from the Prince.
>>Gord McFee

>Giwer….
>j*ws sue everybody & everything.

>I’ve found that the only thing they DO understand is violence. History
>proves that (hee hee).

>Get with the program, kiddo.

I have no idea who sues who but I note that I was first threatened with a
lawsuit by McFly.

The threats have been hot an heavy in every controversial conference I have
been on since 1980. So far as I am aware only one of them has proceeded and
was quashed in its pleading.

That means, beneath judicial notice.

This may be the second. Quite an honor.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:14 PDT 1996
Article: 55411 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 23:15:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 15:43:39 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> Except that since we have the Internet Cremation Society actually describing
>> the “ash” as not really being ash and since we have holohuggers introducing
>> bone grinding to the fineness of a 1 cm sieve we are not talking about
>> particulate sediment here. That is in approximate agreement with the ICS.
>>
>> We are talking about “ashes” that are many orders of magnitude larger than
>> sediment.
>>
>> For all practical purposes you might as well be talking about the river moving
>> small pebbles. And since this is your speciality, you know the dynamics will
>> be that the sediment will move leaving these small objects behind much as the
>> stone lined stream bed.

>You think so? Matt, Matt, Matt, I’ve seen several thousand kilo boulders transported
>during a flood. I’ve seen rivers that have changed course over the period of a few
>days across their valley. I’ve seen sediments deposited by rivers that were far larger
>than 1 centimeter across for individual clasts.

>Tell you what, Matt. Why don’t you take a one-centimeter diameter pebble made of, say
>quartz, that is denser than human ash, paint it bright flourescent pink and toss it in
>a river that approximates the Vistula. Then go back in a year and tell me if that
>pebble is in the same place.

We have roughly 4000 cu meters of such fragments. That gives us 4
billion such pebbles that started out in piles. These piles were both
in the river and in some local lakes.

There being no flow in lakes, those piles are certainly there.

And it would be a simple matter to examine the records for such a
flood, in fact the Russians could simply have asked the locals if
there were any such floods before they started looking for the
evidence.

Certainly they could have checked the lakes. After all the Russians
had the people who knew of the lake dumping. They would certainly be
right around the shore.

>You see, what Matt thinks (I believe) is that sediments have to be actually picked
>up to be moved downstream. This is false. Rocks can be rolled along the bottom,
>slowly but surely.

Why do you pretend you have to guess when you read the description I
wrote of the process that would have occurred? Why the straw man
approach?

>As for the sieve comment all I have to say is this: the 1 centimeter size is clearly
>the *largest* particulate size that would pass through. However, as any soft
>rock geologist knows this information by itself is entirely worthless. What is
>rather important is the size distribution of the particles. From what has been
>said it cannot be determined if the ground material averaged 1 centimeter in size
>or whether 99% of it was much smaller.

The remaining bone fragments were crushed down to that size. As for
worthless, the claim would apply to a natural process. This is a
human process. Grind until they fall through, what does not fall
through gets ground again.

So the result is some very fine material from the fractures and pieces
roughly at 1 cm size. The actual size range would depend upon the
grinder and the properties of these bones. As the grinding ceases
after they fall through the first time, there will be a very sharp cut
off at some size just under 1 cm, certainly no small than 0.5 cm.

>Stay tuned. I’ll post the equations needed to determine the carrying capacity
>of a stream as soon as I dig out my sedimontology books.

Do not forget to cover the carrying capacity of lakes when you do so.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:15 PDT 1996
Article: 55412 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/Wiesenthal
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 01:59:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 15:15:56 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> Simon Wiesenthal says the reason the numbers at Auschwitz were
>inflated by 3 million is because of intentional shenanigans on the
>part of the Russians and Poles.
> Nizkor says it was the “4 million variant”, a mistake the
>Russians made in figuring the crematoria rates.
> Wiesenthal says it was intentional.
> Nizkor says it was a mistake.
> Of course there are plenty of examples of wild rumors and even
>more exaggerated numbers being thrown around before the end of the
>war, and that is where it all started. The Russians going into the
>camp and getting some eyewitness testimony that mirrored these rumors,
>the end of a long and arduous war and the stage was set. Find the
>first examples of rumors and go from there.

And let the “investigators” ask something like, “Did you hear about
the gassing?” and they get the rumor.

Or do it with the usual Russian approach. Have the inmates brought
one at a time under armed guard to a small room for interrogation and
order, “Tell me about the gassing.”

Then as the interrogator finds a belief pattern, fills in the blanks
and covers the contradictions in his own mind, he starts leading
questions, not about the blanks or contradictions but about the points
that most convince him. For example, “Don’t you mean the LK and not
the Kommandant’s office?”

And if he insists on the Kommandant’s office, “Why are you lying to
protect the Kommandant? Were you a sonderkommando?”

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:16 PDT 1996
Article: 55413 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 23:39:28 GMT
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 17:37:30 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>> Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> > Except that since we have the Internet Cremation Society actually describing
>> > the “ash” as not really being ash and since we have holohuggers introducing
>> > bone grinding to the fineness of a 1 cm sieve we are not talking about
>> > particulate sediment here. That is in approximate agreement with the ICS.
>> >
>> > We are talking about “ashes” that are many orders of magnitude larger than
>> > sediment.
>> >
>> > For all practical purposes you might as well be talking about the river moving
>> > small pebbles. And since this is your speciality, you know the dynamics will
>> > be that the sediment will move leaving these small objects behind much as the
>> > stone lined stream bed.

>> Stay tuned. I’ll post the equations needed to determine the carrying capacity
>> of a stream as soon as I dig out my sedimontology books.

>From a Hjulstrom Diagram, as modified by Sundborg in the 1956 _Geografiska Annaler_,
>a water velocity of 1 m/s will lift a 1 cm quartz grain off the bottom. 1 m/s is
>3.6 km/h. This is below my calculations made earlier that assume a flow of 5 km/h,
>which is a pretty damn slow river.

>Care to comment, Matt?

You are claiming this is your field?

A river with that velocity near the shore or on the bottom is a very
fast river in the center. It is difficult to imagine any text on the
subject that would not cover this in the first chapter.

Since this is your field, why are you ignorant of the velocity
difference between the boundaries of a river and the center of a
river? Or are you overlooking what you clearly have to know in the
rush to create some plausibility for the idea that the ashes would
have washed away so quickly?

Perhaps, since this is your field, you are relying upon the ignorance
of others in the matter to try to make a case that is not true?

Or are you going to attempt to claim that fluid flow is the same at
the center and at the boundaries? That way you can write a great
paper as to why all observations and measurements are to the contrary.

You can also explain why everyone who has floated anything in a river
has observed exactly what I am describing. Perhaps you can invoke the
optical illusion argument.

But rest assured, Nizkor will carry your statements as though they are
gospel and will not carry anything that will indicate where you are
wrong. Nizkor has no knowledge of science and, as with believing
every impossible thing witnesses report, they swallow any trash
science a true believer invents.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:17 PDT 1996
Article: 55414 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Neo-Nazikor Project
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 01:49:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tbbt[email protected]> <132306[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 8:51:10 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Aug 1996 12:12:30 GMT, [email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>> >It is Ken McVay, Director of the Nizkor Project, addressing himself to
>Sol
>>> >Litman’s attempt to get Marc Lemire’s Freedom Site shut down:

>>> >If Littman had any knowledge of the Internet, he would know that the
>Nizkor
>>> >Project [http://www.anonymizer.com:8080/https://nizkor.org/] is an
>award
>>> >winning website that is accessed daily by hundreds. In addition to
>being a
>>> >source for those who seek information about the facts of the
>Holocaust, it
>>> >is used as an electronic resource for those who wish to ‘deal with
>[these
>>> >groups] honestly and forcefully’ thereby exposing Lemire and many
>others —

>”Award-winning” has no merit in itself. In fact, j*ws under attack for
>their crimes are frequently given awards by other criminal j*ws. Such
>was the case, for instance, when mickey EISNER [Disney] was under
>scrutiny for embezzling corporate funds on behalf of j*wish projects;
>steven SPIELBERG promptly threw him a dinner & gave him a newly invented
>award. They monthly now give each other impromptu awards.

And as for the web, it is unclear just what the basis for these awards
are, there are so many of them. When it comes to Nizkor it was
certainly not for style as the webmaster and webmistress could barely
spell HTML. It was not for design as there was none.

It may have been for volume of content but it could not have been, and
still can not be for organization or availability of content.

Rather I would say it was clearly awarded for subject matter. Mention
the holocaust, call it a crime, a shame, remember the dead, lay it on
thick and up pops an award.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:18 PDT 1996
Article: 55419 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bahr testifies from a bar
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 01:07:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 6:08:44 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Aug 1996 06:14:17 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>He only had orders to pour in the gas? At Neuengamme? And he returned in 2 hours and marched in and
>dragged out the corpses? All on the orders of this doctor? And we all know there was no gas chamber at
>Neuengamme…Why did you bother posting this nonsense?

To a holohugger any building can be a gas chamber and probably was.

You should have been here when they were floundering over a picture of
the inside of a room that obviously had a window and things mounted on
the wall claiming it was a gas chamber. It was even more amazing when
they were seeing blue stains on the walls in this black and white
picture.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:19 PDT 1996
Article: 55421 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. keren also ignores this aspect
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:49:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 7:50:51 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Aug 1996 14:58:07 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, wrote:

>>This in itself (The cyanide on the grids) is of little significance,
>>because all the bunkers were continuously disinfested with Zyklon
>>B-especially the morgue and autopsy sections.

> Because! I! Say! So!

What does not matter who says the obvious?

>>The grids exposure to the
>>cyanide does not imply any sinister connotations.

> Let’s see: the fact that there are fewer cyanide traces than in the
>delousing chambers is supposedly proof there was no gassing. But the
>cyanide traces that are there are not significant because the morgues were
>”continuously disinfested with Zyklon B.”

> Yes, denier logic at its finest!

Obviously you start with the Russian premise that there was gassing
despite it never having been established to any reasonable standard of
proof at any time.

One would think that a chemist would accept the claims of a researcher
as to something new without even questioning how the person knows it
is true. No scientist, save the poor ones who hang around the
holocaust, would ever accept testimony without physical evidence.

It is rather amazing that after so many years a few of them are
finally noticing that it would be nice to have some yet even then,
anything that is contrary to the Russian claims about gassing is
rejected out of hand.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:19 PDT 1996
Article: 55422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:42:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tuv[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 5:43:31 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Aug 1996 15:56:49 -0400, [email protected] (Kevin Filan) wrote:

>Ehrlich606 ([email protected]) wrote:
>: In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes:

>: >
>: >Almost like Lt, Calley….
>: >
>: >

>: You will note that this massacre was rather similar to those committed by
>: Germans, particularly SS and their foreign auxiliaries. Note also that
>: the punishments handed down were ludicrously light. Note further that no
>: one has written the book, *Johnson’s Willing Executioners* (or maybe it
>: should be *Nixon’s*?)

> I think most people (at least most people I know) agree at this point
>that American troops were guilty of a number of excesses during the Vietnam
>conflict. Further: I think they’ve been aware of this for some time. (I’m a
>bit young to remember, but wasn’t the term “Baby Killer!” frequently flung
>about when referring to U.S. troops in Vietnam?)

> I also think most people consider the My Lai massacre an atrocity.
>Since I know little about the final outcome of My Lai, I’ll reserve comment.
>It wouldn’t surprise me to find that this atrocity was glossed over and that
>those responsible evaded justice.

> But I don’t see anyone claiming that My Lai never happened, that
>Calley’s confessions were obtained by torture, that photographic evidence
>introduced into the trials were forged, and that some shadowy conspiracy
>has responsible for perpetrating a “hoax” to smear the reputation of fine,
>upstanding Americans. (Perhaps the John Birch Society or the LaRouchers _are_
>saying something like this; if so, I doubt anyone is taking them seriously.)
>I don’t see anyone screaming that _Platoon_ should be banned as anti-American
>hate propaganda. I don’t see anyone drawing obscene cartoons of Vietnamese
>children ala Dietlieb Felderer. Yet when dealing with the Holocaust, something
>which seems to me at least as well-documented as the My Lai massacre, I _do_
>see all these things.

The forensic evidence of bodies that died of bullet wounds of US
calibers was also introduced into evidence. That kind of evidence is
what is lacking from the gassing evidence. In fact the Russians even
failed to “discover” cyanide traces when they were clearly needed for
the chain of evidence of gassing.

Imagine the prosecutor at the OJ trial trying to prove their throats
were cut without any forensic evidence of cut throats.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:20 PDT 1996
Article: 55423 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Those dirty Nazi SOB’s got what they deserved
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 01:03:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 6:05:19 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Aug 1996 06:11:11 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Here is a statement from Seaghan Maynes, a journalist who covered the Nuremberg trials:

>”The strange irony in the case of Hess was that he was the only man in the whole Nazi hierarchy who had
>tried to get peace. He had flown in somewhat mysterious circumstances to Britain in 1941 – parachuting into
>Scotland – in a vain effort to get peace negotiations started with the Allies. His life sentence eventually
>became more than forty years’ solitary confinement. I don’t know of any other human being who suffered that
>penalty in the interests of justice.”

Of course the objective was to cover up the support for Germany in
England.

>One of the things which bothered us a lot in the press corps was the hearsay evidence. I’m not promoting
>the defense of the German defendants (God forbid!) but the legality of a lot of the evidence brought against
>them just didn’t exist. There was, I suppose, about 200 witnesses against the defandants, but a lot of
>documents were produced, sheaf after sheaf, consisting of “Statement of Katusha Misleva from the village
>of X, who testifies that she heard from her cousin Maria Blobova of the village of Y, who had been told by
>somebody else that so many people had been executed by the Germans in such and such a place.” This
>was the sort of stuff that used to pile up, and it was completely unnecessary….

In those days the press did not make points with interpretive
journalism. They reported facts, they did not explain facts. But it
is good to see that what is obvious today was also obvious them.

Obvious to everyone but holohugging attorneys who still find nothing
wrong with hearsay evidence and the lack of physical evidence.

>….And as for the possibility of the German defendants getting witnesses to come forward – they would be as
>scarce as holy water in an Orange Lodge. What German was going to get up and give evidence for
>Goering, or Streicher, or Kaltenbrunner? They had to live in Germany under the Allied occupation. Some
>Germans, military men and officials, came and gave evidence for the prosecution, and the press people in
>my circle didn’t have a great deal of sympathy for them, because they’d lived high on the hog while their
>bosses were in power. Here under the occupation, with the winners conducting a trial, a lot of these people
>were trying to get themselves a good deal.

And of course seeing the kinds of trials that were being held it was
certainly obvious to them that if the victors wanted them legally dead
a dozen witnesses could be found to swear they operated the gas
chambers personally even if they never left Germany.

>Another thing some press people felt was that very little attention was paid to the Christians who died in the
>camps….One got the impression that only Jewish people were exterminated, because world attention was
>focused on the Jewish victims.”

6 million are a tragedy, the other 6 million a footnote.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:21 PDT 1996
Article: 55435 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 03:58:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 11:00:13 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:81730 alt.revisionism:55435 talk.politics.european-union:5303

On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:22:57 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>(speaking to Sara)

>> And you have the tits to post in public.
>>
>> Quite amazing.

>That’s “balls”, Matt. “And you have the *balls* to post in public.”

>Then again, I can see why you’ve made that mistake. After all you
>apparently don’t have the balls to answer many, many questions that
>have been asked of you. Or at least not the balls to admit you were
>wrong.

You mean to say he is trolling for sex?

>–
>Keith Morrison
>[email protected]

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 07:05:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55454 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 23:59:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Aug 04 5:01:06 PM PDT 1996
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On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 16:00:08 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>The following is a copy of a followup I just wrote in the thread “Re: Listen up, Alex G”
>For amusements sake you will note who was kind enough to supply the figures I used
>in my calculations.

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> You will recall from last time we has 2000 tons of bone fragments from
>> Treblinka and 3000 tons from Auschwitz to find. That was based upon the
>> internet cremation society’s statement of 5-7 pound of bone fragements
>> remaining after cremation and I used 5 pounds so as not to exaggerate
>> the number.

>[snip]

>> A. In order to accomidate the cremated remains of an average size adult,
>> the urn should have a capacity of at least 205 cubic inches.

>One cubic inch is equal to 16.39 cubic centimeters, thus 205 cubic inches
>is just about 3360 CC.

>Five pounds of bone is 2.27 kilos or 2270 grams.

>Dividing the mass by the volume we get (2270/3360) or 0.68 grams/cc.

>The density of water is 1 gram/cc approximetly). Thus the specific
>gravity of the human remains, *USING MATT’S OWN FIGURES*, is 0.68.

>Anything with a specific gravity less than that of water floats.

>Ergo, human cremated remains float off happily down the Vistula.
>They do not settle. They do not drop to the bottom. They float
>away.

>I eagerly await Mr. Giwer’s response.

It appears you were born yesterday.

When ashes are scattered at sea they are poured out of the urn. They
sink.

When ashes are buried on the family farm or some such they do not
float up to the surface after a few heavy rains.

Interesting that you failed to consider the original source material
>from the internet cremation society and assumed that the ashes in the
urn would have a packing factor of one. (Meaning that you left out
the air between the fragments.)

Additionally you failed to consider the chemical composition of the
fragments as a sanity check upon your calculations.

Did you ever consider crosschecking your conclusions against other
facts before you post them? Or are you trying to get into the Nizkor
Hall of Fame by posting so many plausible but incorrect things, like
your “slow” river and now this?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 12:27:16 PDT 1996
Article: 422651 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: dc.politics,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,dc.politics,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa
Subject: an observation
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:45:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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It is not so interesting how Bush lost the 92 election but rather how
Clinton won it with all the drug use among his campaign workers.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 12:27:17 PDT 1996
Article: 422667 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Harry Browne is getting stronger
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 05:17:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4ot[email protected]> <[email protected]> <637cc$1690.8f@NEWS> <31[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4ti[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 29 Jul 1996 21:26:34 GMT, [email protected] (Lad A.
Jelen) wrote:

>If he gets any stronger, Clinton is SURE to win! Wise up folks:
>
>
>You have two choices this November – to vote FOR or AGAINST Clinton.
>The only candidate who can beat Clinton is the mainstream Republican
>candidate. If you don’t vote for him, you’re casting a de facto vote
>for Clinton. Got it?

Giving the indictments Starr has planned after the election, a vote
for Clinton is a vote for Gore.

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 12:27:18 PDT 1996
Article: 422788 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!olivea!wetware!news.sgi.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,dc.politics,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa
Subject: Re: bust the Dealers in the White-powder-house !!!!!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:17:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:05:26 GMT, [email protected] (ZB) wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Jul 96 19:55:49, Zack C Sessions wrote:

>>
>>In Article, writes:
>>>
>>> once again – where there are users there are dealers
>>>
>>> if someone buys and resells dope they are dealers – plain and simple
>>
>>Once again jakala illustrates his utter ignorance.
>>
>>First thing is that there is no evidence there are users in the White
>>House. In fact there is plenty of evidence to the contrary since NONE
>>of these people who have to take the drug tests have failed any.
>>
>>Secondly, the presence of users does NOT imply the presence of dealers.
>>
>>Thirdly, just because someone is a user does not imply that they are
>>going to automatically re-sell any of what they have bought.
>>
>>
>Some people require very simply explanations, maybe Mr. jakala now has
>a clearer understanding of the situation.

Going down memory lane … George Bush held an anti-drug thing on TV
and showed some cocaine that he said was bought in LaFayette Park.

Shortly thereafter the press had a field day about how he exaggerated
the problem by recounting how the drug dealer had to be enticed into
the park.

In comparison when White House employees were using drugs during the
campaign and the press doesn’t think it is interesting.

Does anyone still think the press is impartial?

From [email protected] Mon Aug 5 12:27:19 PDT 1996
Article: 422796 of talk.politics.misc
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: dc.politics,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,dc.politics,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa
Subject: Drugs, the White House, and the media
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:33:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Years ago Bush went on TV to talk against drugs and showed some
cocaine he said was bought that day in Lafayette Park, across the
street from the White House.

It turned out that while that much was true, the dealer had to be
enticed to actually come to the park so he could be arrested in a good
“sound bite” location. And of course when the press heard about it
they ridiculed Bush for exaggerating the problem. Merely for
exaggerating the problem.

Some years later Gingrich tells of the drug users in the White House,
Panetta lies about it, and the press has a field day with the
irresponsible Gingrich.

Just last month, we find that there are people in the White House who
had used drugs during the 1992 campaign and the press doesn’t appear
to have much interest in the story.

It appears the 89% that voted for him have put their party loyalty far
ahead of their job. Not that that is a surprise, it is simply one
more example.

Or is the claim that it was irresponsible to tell the truth and that
actually putting such drug users in the White House is in fact
responsible?

From [email protected] Tue Aug 6 10:12:03 PDT 1996
Article: 422874 of talk.politics.misc
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: dc.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Campaign like ? govern like ?
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 07:01:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Every year the major parties make moves into each other’s territory,
so they claim.

In fact, each year the parties move into Libertarian territory and
then whichever wins governs like it always did.

Both campaign for more liberty but give government-managed liberty.

Both campaign for limited government but give limited growth in
government.

Both parties are sucker bets.

But clearly what they campaign on is what the people want and they
know it.

But they will not deliver it.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:39 PDT 1996
Article: 55567 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:59:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 3:00:59 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:07:41 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> The Roman Empire was.
>How do we know? From Rome to Western Europe, to Eastern Europe, to
>Africa, the Mideast, all around the Mediterranean, thousands of miles
>of roadways, hundreds of miles of aqueducts, hundreds of sculptures,
>murals, scores of amphitheaters, arches, law, innovations and a
>extensive written record. Tangibles.

> The Holocaust was.
>How do we know? Eye-witness testimony, special interpretation of
>documents.

But holohugging attorneys swear the latter is as good as and no
different than the former. They all swear on a stack of Torahs that
testimony is equal to physical evidence. Not only equal, the same as.

There is no question that they are wrong. The only question is
whether or not they are knowingly lying. I presume they are,
including the attorneys, as it is difficult to imagine even a six year
old not being able to tell the difference.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:40 PDT 1996
Article: 55569 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: demography, the missing jews
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:52:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 5 Aug 1996 01:25:09 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu
wrote:

>One of the arguments that is used often in front is the case of the ‘missing
>jews’. Four months ago, I had a discussion with Yale Eideken who claimed that
>Butz figure for Israel, a demographic growth of 500,000 between 1944 and 1949,
>were irrelevant since many sepharadims immigrated in Israel after 1948.
>My point was to say that the bulk of the sepharadim could not have leaved
>their country in the early 1949 but later. I brought some other elements.
>However, Yale insisted and took Hilberg’s figure, something like 142,000
>holocaust survivors who went there. I was in New York 2 months ago and I
>found something interesting in the archives: Los Angeles times, 23 january
>1995. Lemberger, the director of Amicha, said that he believed that 300,000
>holocaust survivors were still alive in Israel. Amicha seems to be a jewish
>organization that deal with such issues. But Ingrid gave this information
>in a recent zgram. What is interesting however is that the same man, in this
>article, said also that there was 550,000 holocaust survivors in Israel in
>the early 50’s. Bye bye Yale.

> For United States, I’m not sure of the exact number, the usual figure that
> was given by UNRRA doesn’t give necessarelly the right total, especially
> if we take in account illegal immigration that jewish organizations had
> valid reasons to minimized, but perhaps even those organizations never
> tried to count the real number.

> For USSR, we know that the statistics that were given by the soviets were
> unreliables. As a matter of fact, we have this article:

> In the New-York Post, 1 july 1991 (p.16) an article from Uri Dan,
> journalist of Tel Aviv, say that up to now Israelis authority
> were estimating the jewish russians to a number between 2 and
> 3 millions. ‘But the israelis emissaries who can now travel freely
> there report that a numer of 5 millions would be more accurate’.

> In that case, what we can conclude is that the post war soviet claim was
> not significant. Not that all those 2 millions extra Jews are descent of
> deported Jews, but at least if we take in account boundary changements,
> the fact that even in the 30’s there was a vast movement of emigration
> from Europe to other countries in the Jewish population, that they had
> much more reasons to emigrate in 1945 due to economic reasons, than
> one can hardly claim that the vanishing of a lot of Jews is a ‘mystery’.
> I don’t know how many died, one million, two, that’s another question.
> But certanly not six.
>

Neither the US nor Russia keep statistics by religion so there is no
way to find out what happened in either country.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:41 PDT 1996
Article: 55594 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 20:11:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:28:23 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:22:57 -0300, Keith Morrison
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >(speaking to Sara)
>>
>> >> And you have the tits to post in public.
>> >>
>> >> Quite amazing.
>>
>> >That’s “balls”, Matt. “And you have the *balls* to post in public.”
>>
>> >Then again, I can see why you’ve made that mistake. After all you
>> >apparently don’t have the balls to answer many, many questions that
>> >have been asked of you. Or at least not the balls to admit you were
>> >wrong.
>>
>> You mean to say he is trolling for sex?

>Oh keep on evading, Oh Spineless One. And while you are running like
>the yellow-bellied, cowardly worm that you are, maybe you could take the
>time to answer the following questions:

>1. What hominid averaged seven feet in height?
>2. When was the tape recorder invented?
>3. When was the term “United Nations” first used?
>4. Where was the Cambodian Embassy in the US during the Khmer Rouge regime?
>5. How many bones does _Gray’s Anatomy_ say are in the skull and pelvis?
>6. What evidence is there that the skull and pelvis are most likely to
> survive a cremation compared to the other bones of the body?

When McVay posts his own questions and is here to read my answers and
to respond to them in public I will consider answering them. If you
ever come up with any of your own questions, get back to me.

In the mean time, try answering a question yourself. Why did you
suggest Sara is a man?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:42 PDT 1996
Article: 55595 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 00:56:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 12:55:00 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> It appears you were born yesterday.
>>
>> When ashes are scattered at sea they are poured out of the urn. They
>> sink.
>>
>> When ashes are buried on the family farm or some such they do not
>> float up to the surface after a few heavy rains.

>Actually, I’ve scattered ashes on the family farm in my youth, Matt. They
>are carried away by flowing water rather well.

Suddenly you have had experience. Amazing. But rather than respond
to what I wrote you imply that calcium oxide is less dense than water
when you know it is heavier than water.

This is what I mean about the willingness of holohuggers to lie to
support their gassing fantasies.

But in honesty, you know they sink. You also know the bone fragments
were ground much finer than the 1 cm sieve level.

>> Interesting that you failed to consider the original source material
>> from the internet cremation society and assumed that the ashes in the
>> urn would have a packing factor of one. (Meaning that you left out
>> the air between the fragments.)

>I know they aren’t perfectly packed, Giwer. However, this creates a
>problem for *you*, not me.

>Why, you ask? Well, since they aren’t packed that means that they can
>be compressed. If they can be compressed, they take up less space.
>Thus, less difficulty to put them somewhere, especially if they are
>spread out over a wide area.

No compression equipment has ever been reported even by the most
creative Russian investigator.

>> Additionally you failed to consider the chemical composition of the
>> fragments as a sanity check upon your calculations.

>Okay, genius. What is the specific gravity of cremated human remains?
>Please share with us the vastness of your knowledge. I noted that the
>Internet Cremation Society did *not* give a figure for this. So where
>is yours from?

When you consider that it is calcium oxide …

>> Did you ever consider crosschecking your conclusions against other
>> facts before you post them? Or are you trying to get into the Nizkor
>> Hall of Fame by posting so many plausible but incorrect things, like
>> your “slow” river and now this?

>People in glass houses should not throw stones, Giwer. I stated quite
>clearly how I was deriving my figures.

That is why it was so easy to spot your error so quickly.

>You, on the other hand, have so far failed to give me a citation on what
>hominid averaged seven feet tall, you have failed to indicate where the
>Cambodian embassy was in the US that you “saw” during the Khmer Rouse
>regime, you have failed to tell me what _Gray’s Anatomy_ gives as the
>number of bones in the skull and pelvis and you have failed to provide
>any citation that shows the skull and pelvis are the bones most likely
>to survive cremation intact.

When you come up with your own questions, get back to me.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:43 PDT 1996
Article: 55610 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:41:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
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On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 08:17:58 GMT, [email protected] (Harry W. Mazal
OBE) wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 00:54:15 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:

>> What is interesting about the claims of mass extermination
>>by gassing is that all such claims were generated by the
>>Russians. It is also interesting that at no time did the
>>Russians present any forensic evidence of even small time gassing
>>much less mass gassing. It is even more interesting that at no
>>time did the Russians provide any forensic evidence of even the
>>number of bodies required to support claims of mass gassing.

>Mr. Giwer states, regarding mass exterminations, that “all such
>claims were generated by the Russians.” Perhaps he would be so kind as
>to post his references.

>Not too likely….

Likely or not, it is true. Other than that, what is your point in
posting?

>Mr. Giwer’s posts are beyond the pale of civilized discourse.

The truth is beyond civilized discourse? Civilization is in deep
kim-chi if that is true.

>His answers to well-researched and documented notes are either
>a stream of vulgarities or a one-line response. For proof, visit:

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>Harry W. Mazal OBE

Actually you are an ignorant, lying holohugger

>Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>Over 100Megs of data: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?
>Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction – permanently!)

as are all of the Nizkorites.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:43 PDT 1996
Article: 55611 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: promises of things to come
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:02:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
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Reflections upon the Holocaust

Reflections upon the
Holocaust

The gassing is not the Holocaust

And the Holocaust is not the
gassing. Yet there is a constant confusion that the two are
identical. Not only that, there is a confusion with regard to
what the Holocaust is, whether it refers to only the Jews or to
everyone, whether 6 million are a tragedy and the other 6
million only a footnote.

The issue of 12 million deaths

The problem with the deaths is
rather more interesting. A long forgotten fact is that, as a
result of WW II, 31 million people in the European theater were
completely untraceable after the war. Those who look towards the
holocaust for an explanation, assign 12 of these 31 million to
Nazi extermination programs.

The
problem is that every person recorded to have been sent to a camp
is accounted for to the limits of record keeping errors.

The issue of gassing

One of the more difficult things
to deal with regarding the holocaust is the use of gas for mass
extermination. Part of the reason for this is that the details
about these gassings are known. Another part of the reason is
that the eyewitness reports do not appear to describe the gases
they claim were used.

I will
try to fill in this gap.

The Search for the vanished

If they disappeared into the
camps, there should certainly have been a search for forensic
evidence. Ignoring that, there would certainly have been a
search for the remains so a few stars and crosses and appropriate
words could be said in the right places. That is the human thing
to do and always has been.

No such
thing has ever been done.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:44 PDT 1996
Article: 55613 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Re: Eight Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 6)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:26:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 291
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:55613 soc.history:7488

On 5 Aug 1996 04:00:06 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: people/g/giwer.matt/giwer-10q
>Last-Modified: 1996/07/17

>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility
> of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>Question 1 [February 1996]
>————————–

> Mr. Giwer, during the course of discussions in February, 1996,
> in which you performed some truly amazing mental gymnastics in
> a futile attempt to confuse everyone, you made the following
> statement:

> Perhaps he is in league with the revisionists at Yad Vashem
> who reduced the official number from 6 million to a bit over
> 3 million. (Giwer, The 4-Million)

> In subsequent follow-up articles on the same general topic,
> that is, the number of Jewish victims to the Holocaust, you
> were repeatedly asked to support this claim with
> documentation. You have not, and will not, do this, since
> the statement you made is an outright lie; however, for the
> record, Mr. Giwer, when will you produce documentation,
> from Yad Vashem, in support of your assertion?

>Question 2 [February 1996]
>————————–

> Also, in February of 1996, you claimed that since the United Nations
> did not come into existence until 1945 that reference to the United
> Nations could not have occured in 1944:

> In August 1944 (fourty FOUR) how could the United Nations have
> regarded him as anything when it would not even come into existence
> until 15 months later? (Giwer, Re: Jewish Census)

> Are you now prepared to retract that question in light of the fact
> that you have been presented evidence that term “United Nations” was
> used as early as 1942?

>Question 3 [February 1996]
>————————–

> On February 7, 1996 you made the following comment in reference to
> the atrocities committed by the Khmer Rouge:

> I was paying attention at the time and not once did I notice any
> Jewish group protesting ouside of the Cambodian Embassy and I was
> living in the DC area at the time, Fairfax County, Virginia to be
> specific. (Giwer, Re: INTERNET FREE SPEECH WEB SITE ! (this
> one’s not a troll))

> Could you please specify the location of the Cambodian embassy to the
> United States at the time of the Khmer Rouge. After you discover that
> you are unable to do this, will you instead explain why you lied?

>Question 4 [February 1996]
>————————–

> On February 22, 1996 you made some rather interesting comments on the
> production of “HCN” from burning atmospheric nitrogen:

> It appears you are unaware the CN is a by product of incomplete
> combustion. You see, you take a carbon based fuel and air which
> contains more nitrogen than oxygen and also supports combustion but
> at a higher temperature and you get a fractional production of CN
> as well as CO and a mess of other things. With enough oxygen and
> good design you will get all CO2 as the result. And of course if
> you have ever paying any attention to the causes of smog you know one
> of them nitrogen compounds emitted as gases. Do you think there is
> some way to prevent carbon from being included among those compounds?
> Of course there is a resident chemist here to confirm or deny this so
> lets wait for his commentary.

> …

> Yes, Virginia, there is nitrogen in the atomsphere and yes , Virginia,
> it does burn. (Giwer, Re: Open Gallon of Paint – paint one door –
> throw the rest away)

> Since you are a qualified chemist, perhaps you can explain how
> burning nitrogen results in reducing it rather than oxidizing it.
> Yes, we know that in fuel lean conditions that N2 is oxidized to NO and
> NO2 and that these species are an important component of photochemical
> smog. Yes, we agree that it is possible under fuel rich conditions that
> coal containing nitrogen could produce some uncombusted cyanides.
> The part that’s really difficult to understand is how atmospheric N2
> enters into the production of cyanides. Please be so kind as to
> explain.

>Question 5
>———-

> You have asserted that eyewitnesses to gassings have noted that
> the victims took “tens of minutes” to die, and you claim that
> this assertion contradicts your other assertion that Zyklon B
> would have killed them more quickly.
>
> Here is the relevant excerpt from what you wrote:

> For a moment there I thought had a way to salvage those stories
> that talk about the screaming going on for tens of minutes.
>
> After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had
> passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas
> chamber was opened.
>
> Note the ten to fifteen minutes. (Giwer, Re: the mechanism of
> hydrogen cyanide inhalation poisoning)
>
> Mr. Giwer, does the “ten to fifteen minutes” in the text you
> quoted (See URL
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-06.html)
> refer to the time that the screaming went on — i.e. before
> the silence — or does it refer to something else?
>
> If it refers to something else, do you still stand by your
> statement that:

> …I am the only one who has read what people keep saying I
> should read. (Ibid.)

>Question Six [June 1996]
>————————

> You have written, of late, the following comments regarding
> the number of Holocaust victims:

> 6,000,000 are a tragedy, the other 6,000,000 a footnote.

> and …

> To the Holocaust museum folks the other 6 million are
> the footnote.

> Daniel Mittleman responded to these comments with the
> following:

> “Below … is the Mission Statement of the Holocaust Museum.
> (http://www.ushmm.org/misc-bin/add_goback/mission.html)
> Please note in particular the second paragraph. The reader can
> determine for himself whether or not Mr. Giwer’s charge that
> ‘the other six million are a footnote’ is accurate:

> “Mission Statement

> The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is America’s
> national institution for the documentation, study, and
> interpretation of Holocaust history, and serves as this
> country’s memorial to the millions of people murdered during
> the Holocaust.

> The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution
> and annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its
> collaborators between 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary
> victims — six million were murdered; Gypsies, the handicapped,
> and Poles were also targeted for destruction or decimation for
> racial, ethnic, or national reasons. Millions more, including
> homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Soviet prisoners of war, and
> political dissidents also suffered grievous oppression and
> death under Nazi tyranny.” (Mittleman, Both Sides)

> Mr. Giwer, please explain why you lied about the United States
> Holocaust Memorial Museum’s purpose and viewpoint.

>Question Seven
>————–

> On June 15, 1996, you stated that:

> “In the process of burning the two bones most likely
> to be left are the pelvis and the skull. (Giwer, Dem bones,
> dem bones, dem dry bones)

> In response to subsequent questioning about the truth of this
> statement, you have made some claims about the human skeleton
> which, if true, would set the science of human skeletal biology
> on its ear, bones and all.

> In reply to a poster who asked you how many bones there are in
> the human skull and pelvis, you wrote:

> “The skull, two in an adult, counting the jaw, discounting
> the six small bones in the ear. The pelvis, one. (Giwer;
> Re: Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones; June 16, 1996)

> When questioned about the accuracy of your answer by a poster
> who pointed out that the skull consists of several bones,
> you replied:

> “You are talking about the skull of a child before the
> skull is fused. (Giwer; Re: Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry
> bones; June 18, 1996)

> In response to this, another poster repeatedly asked you what
> degree of closure (or fusion, if you prefer) there is in the
> lambdoidal, sagittal and coronal sutures of the human cranium,
> on average, by age 35. She pointed out that these are the major
> sutures of the cranial vault (skull), and cited human skeletal
> anatomy texts in which the answer could be found.

> Your final statement related to this matter was reiteration of
> your original claim:

> “The fact remains that the pelvis and the skull are the bones
> most likely to survive any form of cremation and the skull is
> never mentioned by those so-called eyewitnesses. (Giwer; Re:
> Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones; June 22, 1996)

> As a qualified scientist perhaps you would answer the question
> about when and how completely the different bones of the skull
> fuse together. We know that in normal burial, the adult skull
> remains intact. But we also know that the skull consists of a
> number of bones, and that fusion of these different bones into
> a single mass remains incomplete well into adulthood. Please
> address the question related to closure and then explain why you
> think that after cremation, intact skulls should have been
> recovered and easily identified among the ashes removed from
> crematoria.

>Question Eight
>————–

> On July 10, 1996, you included the following assertion in
> an article which you published in alt.revisionism:
>
> “McVay is a self aggrandizing fool who permits hired
> underlings to speak for him while he refuses to speak
> for himself.” (Giwer, Re: Who would be Gannon?)

> Please identify these “hired underlings” or admit that you
> lied, apologize, and retract the statement.

>For Work Cited, see
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/giwer-10q-citations

>–
>The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>———————–| Random Giwer Whoppers Served Here
> |————————————–
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/random-giwer-lie.pl

And of course these are all questions that McVay refused to read the
answers to the first time because he has me in his killfile. And he
continues to spam the net with questions that he refuses to listen to
the answers to.

McVay is a lying asshole who abuses the net for his personal reasons
of self agrandizement.

It is interesting that now that Linda Thompson is pissed at me for
revealing his military-industrial complex connections before she did
whatever she wanted to do with it, and note it is not reconcilable
with his claim of managing a gas station, it is still in question as
to why the pretention remains when in fact he has been clearly
fingered (internet protocol) as a US DOD contractor.

What is he doing as a contractor? It is not as though Canada has any
military prowess the US is interested in, in any manner.

So what is going on here? Maybe there are two Ken McVays and this is
the wrong one. I have not problem but there was not a denial the
first time around.

So, Nizkorites, was this revealed to you? Was it denied to you but
never publically? Is this the same person? Is there any connection
to anything else connected to what is being posted or to the
sponsorship?

Are you really being suckered into supporting something for free when
the US DOD is on the other side of the line?

I do not know. It just might be another Ken McVay.

So is anyone going to answer the question if the gas pumper McVay is
the same as the military contractor McVay? Will McVay answer the
question?

If it is another McVay, fine with me. I made a mistake. But
certainly there is a need for an answer here.

The McVay listed works for what money chain, when, where, and how?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:45 PDT 1996
Article: 55614 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!News1.mcs.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:45:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 2:47:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:34:45 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

> Giwer, don’t you think it would have been easier to just say, ‘No
>one, ever, produced any kind of forensic evidence to verify the
>Holocaust story’.

No. These holohuggers need the obvious spelled out for them at every
turn so they can not introduce some little quirk exception as a
response.

The Russians need to be pinned down as the origin of all of this and
it has to be repeated often enough that the holohuggers can no longer
deny it.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:46 PDT 1996
Article: 55615 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:59:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 3:01:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 04 Aug 1996 22:48:12 +0000, Chuck Ferree
wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes for Moran:

>The Holocaust was and still is Historical facts by the thousands.

>Got nothing at all to do with Rome.

>You don’t know what the Holocaust is all about, because you don’t want
>to know what the Holocaust was all about.

>Historical facts, the Nazis murdered millions of Jews and others by
>mass gassings, mass shootings, starvation, neglect, all by Nazi
>design. Look it up, it’s all there.

So a whacko like you was suckered in. So what?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:46 PDT 1996
Article: 55617 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:34:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 5:36:00 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 12:34:35 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >From a Hjulstrom Diagram, as modified by Sundborg in the 1956 _Geografiska Annaler_,
>> >a water velocity of 1 m/s will lift a 1 cm quartz grain off the bottom. 1 m/s is
>> >3.6 km/h. This is below my calculations made earlier that assume a flow of 5 km/h,
>> >which is a pretty damn slow river.
>>
>> >Care to comment, Matt?
>>
>> You are claiming this is your field?
>>
>> A river with that velocity near the shore or on the bottom is a very
>> fast river in the center. It is difficult to imagine any text on the
>> subject that would not cover this in the first chapter.
>>
>> Since this is your field, why are you ignorant of the velocity
>> difference between the boundaries of a river and the center of a
>> river? Or are you overlooking what you clearly have to know in the
>> rush to create some plausibility for the idea that the ashes would
>> have washed away so quickly?
>>
>> Perhaps, since this is your field, you are relying upon the ignorance
>> of others in the matter to try to make a case that is not true?
>>
>> Or are you going to attempt to claim that fluid flow is the same at
>> the center and at the boundaries? That way you can write a great
>> paper as to why all observations and measurements are to the contrary.
>>
>> You can also explain why everyone who has floated anything in a river
>> has observed exactly what I am describing. Perhaps you can invoke the
>> optical illusion argument.
>>
>> But rest assured, Nizkor will carry your statements as though they are
>> gospel and will not carry anything that will indicate where you are
>> wrong. Nizkor has no knowledge of science and, as with believing
>> every impossible thing witnesses report, they swallow any trash
>> science a true believer invents.

>Very very good, Matt. I was wondering if you were paying attention.

>Yes indeed this is not true in real life due to boundary effects as a
>stream does not exhibit perfect laminar flow. However, this 1 m/s
>lifting velocity, if you were paying attention, is for a 1 cm piece
>of quartz. Quartz has a specific gravity of about 2.7.

>What is the specific gravity of ash, Mr Giwer? Someone less than
>2.7, no?

>Further, 1 cm is the *largest possible* fragment size. If you grind
>anything I will guarantee that a great deal will be much smaller than
>the size of the sieve. As such the velocity of water needed to lift
>it lowers exponentially.

>As a further note, this also assumes lifting off the bed of the stream
>which is not required to move material downstream. Material can roll
>downstream and it happens all the time. That’s why ripples occur,
>slowly making their way downstream and moving material along.

>–
>Keith Morrison
>[email protected]

Agreed. I am right. You are wrong.

Agreed. You are misreprsenting to support you favorite holocaust.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:47 PDT 1996
Article: 55646 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:17:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4tpq[email protected]> <4tqbj8$[email protected]> <4u0[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 2:19:43 AM PDT 1996
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Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.mindport.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2361 alt.revisionism:55646 alt.conspiracy:75261 alt.politics.white-power:38371 soc.culture.jewish:66747 talk.politics.guns:295385 talk.politics.libertarian:108801 talk.abortion:180408 alt.christnet:89119

On 5 Aug 1996 08:52:14 GMT, [email protected] (Richard
Schultz) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: >Your father developed an ulcer (in two weeks, yet–a medical miracle!)
>: >because somebody called him and asked for your phone number?

>: >Sensitive chap. Why do I think you’re lying, Matt?

>: Because you did not talk to him after the tube went down his throat to
>: take a look at it. Is that clear enough?

>Actually, it’s recently been discovered that ulcers are caused by an
>interesting species of bacterium that lives in the stomach lining (and
>can stand the highly acidic conditions by dumping ammonia as a waste
>product). More precisely, as I recall, the ulcers are caused when the
>body’s white blood cells try to go after these bacteria and fail. I
>remember reading an article about the guy who proved it by ingesting some
>of the bacteria himself, developing an ulcer, and then making the ulcer
>go away by taking the appropriate antibiotic.

>In any case, developing an ulcer in two weeks isn’t out of the question.
>What I want to know is, who used the secret ZOG “send bacteria over the
>phone” weapon without clearance from the higher echelons?

>—–
>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>—–
>”I have, if you will forgive the expression, known several bastards
>with very high IQs.”
> –J. Bronowski

I am very tired of ignorant Jews playing games like this.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:48 PDT 1996
Article: 55647 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 09:18:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4tpq[email protected]> <4tqbj8$[email protected]> <4u0dp[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 2:20:16 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2362 alt.revisionism:55647 alt.conspiracy:75262 alt.politics.white-power:38372 soc.culture.jewish:66748 talk.politics.guns:295386 talk.politics.libertarian:108802 talk.abortion:180409 alt.christnet:89120

On 5 Aug 1996 13:50:48 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 1 Aug 1996 13:31:20 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
>: wrote:

>: >Your father developed an ulcer (in two weeks, yet–a medical miracle!)
>: >because somebody called him and asked for your phone number?
>:
>: >Sensitive chap. Why do I think you’re lying, Matt?
>:
>: Because you did not talk to him after the tube went down his
>: throat to take a look at it. Is that clear enough?

>Oh, I accept that your Father may have had an ulcer, Matt. I just
>don’t buy your ridiculous claim that he developed it because Andrew
>Mathis called him and asked for your phone number.

>Bill

Tell it to the jury.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:49 PDT 1996
Article: 55675 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/”Images” and Rip Van Winkle
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:29:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-17.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Aug 06 5:31:46 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:41:23 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
> Go to Nizkor. Continue on to “FTP Files”. Click up “camps”. See
>”auschwitz”. Click it. Notice on the right side the numerical byte
>contents, “7,965 k”

> Click “auschwitz”.

> Notice long list of various topics.

> Click “cyanide”.

> Notice “Zyklon” and click it.

> See “images” and notice right hand column, “2,708 k”

> Go back a step to “auschwitz”.

> Notice “images”, see right hand column, “3,505 k”

> So what are these “images”? They are scanned in material that
>could include photos and or pages from books with most of it scanned
>non-OCR text.

> What does this mean to those accessing Nizkor files? First it
>means you have to wait about five times longer to retrieve something
>than if it was straight forward text. It also means you can’t work it,
>like “search” or something.

> Nizkor boasts 7,965 kilobytes for Auschwitz. The “images”
>accounts for 6,313 kilobytes. The one figure subtracted from the other
>figure leaves us with 1,652 kilobytes that are more or less straight
>forward.

> Take into consideration the alt.revisionism headers included with
>some of their info, the blank spaces, the Nizkor signatures and
>headings and we may be left with say 1,000 kilobytes of actual
>information in a textual format.

> After you get done with that, take advantage of Nizkor’s links to
>Greg Raven or Ernst Zuendel and experience the ease and the directness
>of it all in comparison to Nizkor.

As to the copyright violations on Nizkor, the holders have to object
to all, and sue all, or ignore all. They can not selectively object.
So anyone can feel free to “steal” and attribution to Nizkor makes
Nizkor the first and only target of a lawsuit.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:50 PDT 1996
Article: 55683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!news.conterra.com!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 20:08:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-16.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 05 1:10:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:35:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## If you could read, you would have noticed that Hoessler said
>## that everyone *in the camp (Auschwitz)* knew about the gas
>## chambers.
>##
>## Not *everyone* in Europe, or in the world.

># I was referring to the camp. As you know there are plenty
># of claims from people who were at Auschwitz they never heard
># of such a thing.

>I am not aware of this. There may have been a few, who were
>there for a very short time, or during the end of the war, who
>said they didn’t know of the gas chambers.

>Can you post plenty such claims?

># You have certainly posted more than a few of them.

>Not a single one, as I recall.

>You’re saying I posted this, you better present my articles.

>If not, you’re lying and slandering.

>Post these articles, or retract your claim.

Your memory gets very short when you want it to be short. Do you
really think I keep copies of everything you post?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55728 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer blows the big one
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 09:16:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 619
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 4:18:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Aug 1996 00:47:54 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/5/96 at 0:54, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>Reality check:
>————–

>”…So it fell to Gerhard Riegner, the WJC’s [ed.: World Jewish
>Congress] representative in Geneva, to play a role in one of the most
>fateful episodes of the period.

>Riegner was on close terms with many members of the international
>community based in Switzerland, and at the beginning of August 1942 he
>received a notice from the German industrialist Eduard Schulte, who had
>access to Hitler’s headquarters and reported that the fu”hrer had
>decided systematically to destroy all the Jews of Europe, using poison
>gas for this purpose.

Interestingly Eichmann and Hoess make this same report but that they
had no decided which gas to use. Browse the file at the end to read
of it. However, this is a fascinating report and predates every
other claim. I would like to have a copy of it and the source for
record purposes at least.

Of course Hoess reports the decision to use gas without the knowledge
of which gas to use. It is an odddly backward decision that I intend
to explore more thoroughly.

….Riegner passed this information on to Stephen
>Wise in the United States by means of the American Consulate and to
>Sidney Silverman, member of Parliament, the WJC’s chairman in London,
>through British channels…When the cable readed the U.S. State
>Department, Undersecretary of State Sumne Welles stopped it from being
>passed on to Wise. When Wise, nevertheless, received the information
>on August 28…”(1)

This [1] my be the reference, but the footnote did not arrive here.

>August 28, 1942. A German national, industrialist Eduard Schulte sent
>word to WJC representative in Geneva.

>Further, this isn’t the first word to reach the West of the situation.
>The Warsaw Jewish underground got word to the Polish govt-in-exile in
>London “and the BBC broadcast its information on June 2, 1942, noting
>that the number of Jewish victims in Poland had reached seven hundred
>thousand–less than the actual number of people murdered by that
>time.”(2)

The same with [2].

It is fascination that word of gassing reached people that early, even
before the first HCN gassing experiment but when CO gassing was in
full swing.

So far no one has explained why Hoess did not simply copy a method
equally effective as HCN, that being CO.

>From Hilberg:

>”Following the highly public roundups of Jews in Paris and Warsaw
>during July, news of the greatest import was received in Switzerland.
>As summarized in a message, dated August 8, 1942, by the chief of the
>Geneva office of the World Jewish Congress, Dr. Gerhard Riegner, the
>report referred to a plan discussed and under consideration in the
>Fu”hrer headquarters according to which the Jews of Europe were to be
>deported to the east and “exterminated at one blow” to resolve once and
>for all the Jewish question in Europe. Among methods “under
>discussion” for planned action in the autumn was prussic acid…

Save of course this contradicts ALL THREE versions of the “discovery”
of ZB by its time frame and by the discussion of using it prior to its
“discovery”. It looks like I am going to have to find a way to fit in
a fifth column into the following to cover this version of the story.

=====

A Tale of three Gassings

A Tale of Three Gassings

What you are going to read are
three different descriptions of the “discovery” of the utility of
Zyklon B in mass extermination. Where you would expect to find
the stories to be complimentary and to shed light upon each other
we find just the opposite.

We find unexplainable
contradictions. In one case we find an unexplainable identical
mistake on color based upon a common misconception. We find
different people and numbers of people involved.

We even find an absolutely
impossible detail thrown into one story. It is a truly amazing
comparison.

Naumann, Bernard. Auschwitz. New York: Frederick A. Praeger,
1966, as cited in Conot¹

KL Auschwitz as seen by SS Hoess, Broad and Kremer, second
edition, Museum w Oswiecimu, 1978, pp. 92-95²

Nizkor Auschwitz FAQ

various sources

embedded in text

commentary

Although Hitler ordered that Jews and commissars were to be
screened out before they reached POW camps, the procedure proved
impractical, and many were not ‘selected’ before they arrived in
the Reich. Those weeded out were then sent to concentration camps
for execution. At Auschwitz, to which Russian prisoners were
dispatched to clear land and build factories, the officers and
‘commissars’ were initially executed one at a time with a shot in
the back of the neck at the so-called Black Wall, adjacent to the
Bunker (camp prison). This was a laborious procedure that wore on
the nerves of the SS executioners. In October 1941, however,
an SS officer named Arthur Johann Breitwieser

“The gassing was carried out in the detention cells of Block 11.
Proctected by a gas mask, I [Höss] watched the killing
myself.

Auschwitz had been receiving
trainloads of Soviet commissars and other POW’s who were subject
to liquidation. Höss’s men had shot previous shipments of
Russian prisoners, but on September 3 Höss’s enterprising
subordinate Hauptsturmführer Fritsch

Note that different people are involved in the different stories.
In one case it is a Breitweiser, in the other it is Fritsch, and
in another it is Höss himself.

noticed that one of his companions, charged with delousing
the camp laundry, was instantly knocked out when exposed
to a whiff of Zyklon B, the gas that was used as a disinfectant.

It would be by gas, but we did not know which gas and how it
was to be used. Now we had the gas, and we had established a
procedure.

thought of an expedient new method
based on the camp’s own experience. The buildings, many of them
former Polish army barracks, were full of insects, and the camp
administration had previously brought in the Hamburg pesticide
firm of Tesch and Stabenow to get rid of them.

Two experts had fumigated
particular buildings with a patented insecticide, Zyklon B, a
crystalline form of hydrogen cyanide that turned gaseous
when exposed to the air. (Höss, "Commandant of
Auschwitz," 175. Interrogation of Höss, 14 May 1946, NA
RG 238, M-1019/R 28/63)

In the first story the companions
of this officer are doing the delousing. In the second story,
Höss and Eichmann had already decided to use a gas but
strangely did not know what gas they were going to use. In the
third case professional exterminators did the fumigation.

Note also that person knocked out
with one whiff of a deadly poison but recovers. This is contrary
to the pathology of cyanide poisoning.

Note further that it is not a
crystaline form of hydrogen cyanide, rather liquid hydrogen
cyanide absorbed into wood pulp³.

To Breitwieser, this seemed to
offer the possibility of more efficient and less time-consuming
executions. After ordering the half-submerged lower level of the
Bunker sealed, Breitwieser had several cans of the blue
pellets,

Note that these pellets is given
as blue even though, wood pulp is grey. Cyanide itself is
colorless but its common name in German translates as blue
acid⁴.

which vaporize when exposed to air, dropped in among the one
thousand Russians awaiting execution.

On September 3 Fritsch decided to
experiment. First he crammed five or six hundred Russians and
another 250 sick prisoners from the camp hospital into an
underground detention cell.

Note that both the number and the
composition of the people differ.

which vaporize when exposed to air, dropped in among the one
thousand Russians awaiting execution.

In the crowded cells, death came instantaneously the moment the
Zyklon B was thrown in. A short, almost smothered cry, and
it was all over….

Then the windows were covered with earth. SS men wearing gas
masks opened the Zyklon-B canisters to remove what looked like
blue chalk pellets about the size of peas, creating a cloud of
poison gas.

After they left, the doors
were sealed.(Höss, Commandant at Auschwitz, 173. See also
Yehuda Bauer, "Auschwitz," in Jäckel and Rohwere,
eds., Der Mord an den Juden, 167-68) Höss wrote later that
death was instantaneous. Perhaps that was what he was told. But
he was not present to witness the event; he was away on a
business trip.

Note that the first story appears
to indicate dropped in from above as in some other stories while
another has a "walked among" indication. In another it
is thrown it.

Note in the third story there is a
clear indication of a visible cloud of gas but of course the gas
is invisible.

Note also that this separate and
independent story also invents a false blue color.

Note also Höss clearly states
that he watched the instant death in one story yet another claims
Höss was not even there.

Two days later the camp inmates detailed to remove the
bodies were met by a fearsome sight.

In the crowded cells, death came instantaneously the moment the
Zyklon B was thrown in. A short, almost smothered cry, and
it was all over…

Other sources indicate that even
the next day not everyone was dead, and the SS men had to
release more insecticide. Eventually all the prisoners died. When
Höss returned to Auschwitz, he heard about the successful
experiment. On Eichmann’s next visit to Auschwitz, Höss told
him about the possibilities of Zyklon-B, and, according to
Höss, the two decided to use the pesiticide and the peasant
farmstead for extermination.(Höss, Commandant, 175. From the
History of KL Auschwitz, New York, 1982, I, 190)(Breitman, 203)

Here we have a strange set of
disagreements. The first story told of immediate
unconscioussness in his “discovery” but in the next part of the
story we see that did not in fact happen. In the second story
there was near instaneous unconsciousness as the first story
begins with. The third story insists upon some being alive the
next day. The first and third appear to like the two day time
frame.

Men with contorted faces had locked themselves together in their
death agonies, torn out each other’s hair, and bitten off their
fingers. Their flesh and their clothes had fused into gelatinous
blobs that sometimes disintegrated when the members of the detail
tried to pick them up. (Naumann, pp. 59, 112, 134.)

&nbsp

Here we have a description worthy
of Steven King. Except that it has mistakes that Steven King
would never make.

Go back and read about the
statement that someone was knocked out with one whiff of the gas.
Note here that apparently they regain consciousness before they
die. And then they have all kinds of horrible self-inflicted
injuries.

And then somehow this particular
cyanide does what no other cyanide has ever done and which can
not be replicated. It somehow fuses flesh and clothing into
gelatinous masses.

When impossible things are claimed
to have happened rest assured someone is making up a story.

We have two different people getting
the
idea to use it but in the first case his companions are charged with
delousing
and in the second case professional fumigators are brought in.

In one story it is 1000 Russians. In
the
other case we have 750-850 Russians and sick people.

In one case the pellets are dropped
into
the room, in the other men wearing gas masks are walking around in the
room to spread it.

In neither case is the room large
enough to hold even the lowest number of people.

In the first story there is a very
strange pathology of cyanide poisoning (instantly knocked out but
recovering later for the hair pulling and finger biting) while in
the latter, they may or may not have died immediately. No
horrifying details are noted.

In the former story the impossible
gelatinous blobs are included while the latter does not include
them or anything out of the ordinary.

One has to wonder how people who
implicitely believe one story will deal with the other story and
the conflicts between them.

Footnotes

¹also found on Nizkor, sort of a holocaust
database but it may be purged by the time you get there. It
conflicts with the story they approve. They do not provide full
attribution of the original work.

² “The gassing was carried out in the detention cells
of Block 11. Proctected by a gas mask, I watched the killing
myself. In the crowded cells, death came instantaneously the
moment the Zyklon B was thrown in. A short, almost smothered cry,
and it was all over…. I must even admit that this gassing set
my mind at rest, for the mass extermination of the Jews was to
start soon, and at that time neither Eichmann nor I was certain
as to how these mass killings were to be carried out. In would be
by gas, but we did not know which gas and how it was to be used.
Now we had the gas, and we had established a procedure.” “KL
Auschwitz seen by the SS Hoess, Broad, Kremer”, second edition,
Museum w Oswiecimu, 1978, pp. 92-95.

³ Zyklon for Pest Control, A
publication of the Degesh company which was the manufacturer of
Zyklon as well as the manufacturer of stationary and portable
delousing chambers that used it.

During the war the company
advertised that it’s equipment had been used to delouse the
possesssions of 25 million people.

Composition

In ZYKLON pure (98%-99%) liquid
hydrocyanic acid is chemically stabilized and absorbed in a
porous, inert material. It is supplied in snippets or discs
prepared from wood pulp. Snippets generally are preferred as in
view of their larger surface they give off the gas more rapidly.
Upon request also discs can be supplied. The aborbent material
can easily be collected at the end of the fumigation.

⁴The common mis-identification is generally attributed
to this common name, blausäur, blue acid. The naming is
related to its reaction with iron that produces the pigment,
prussian blue. Acids produce a sour (säur) taste.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55740 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Neo-Nazikor Project
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 09:41:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
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On 5 Aug 1996 18:32:31 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) ranted:
>> And as for the web, it is unclear just what the basis for these awards
>>are, there are so many of them. When it comes to Nizkor it was
>>certainly not for style as the webmaster and webmistress could barely
>>spell HTML. It was not for design as there was none.

> As a former graphic designer, I’m puzzled by Matt’s comments.
>Nizkor does have a design, maybe not to Matt’s taste, but it is consistent.

Please describe the design you see. If not, please drop the bullshit.

>> It may have been for volume of content but it could not have been, and
>>still can not be for organization or availability of content.

> Well, my humble opinion is that it is well organised. There is an
>introduction, a fast-track page for those in a hurry and a through pair of
>indices of people and organisations, not to mention the FAQ files.

Your opinion is humble because it deserves to be.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55744 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:51:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <32057386.187[email protected]> <4u754r$50[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 14:40:40 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> But holohugging attorneys swear the latter is as good as and no
>>different than the former. They all swear on a stack of Torahs that
>>testimony is equal to physical evidence. Not only equal, the same as.

>Holocaust eyewitness testimony is better than physical evidence. It
>has to be. There is nothing else.

What I find amazing is that these holohuggers can not comprehend the
difference. I can realize why they do not want to admit it. But then
they have to be consider unable to comprehend or lying in being unable
comprehend.

In either event, not very bright.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:53 PDT 1996
Article: 55752 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I’m not a revisionist but here’s a thought
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:59:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:54:57 -0700, Rich Graves wrote:

>Jef Knight wrote:
>>
>> The contesting of a mass slaughter is nuts.There was for sure a mass
>> slaughter, as in any war.Men are often full of hates and other[…]
>> Anyway the real crux of my point is this:Many people were offed-though
>> maybe not exactly 6M, And they were not ALL Jews.

>This is true. The consensus is upwards of ten million, 5-6 million of
>whom were jews.

The consensus of holohuggers that is.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:54 PDT 1996
Article: 55762 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 00:59:30 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 5 Aug 1996 08:52:14 GMT, [email protected] (Richard
>>Schultz) wrote:

>>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>>>: >Your father developed an ulcer (in two weeks, yet–a medical miracle!)
>>>: >because somebody called him and asked for your phone number?

>>>: >Sensitive chap. Why do I think you’re lying, Matt?

>>>: Because you did not talk to him after the tube went down his throat to
>>>: take a look at it. Is that clear enough?

>>>Actually, it’s recently been discovered that ulcers are caused by an
>>>interesting species of bacterium that lives in the stomach lining (and
>>>can stand the highly acidic conditions by dumping ammonia as a waste
>>>product). More precisely, as I recall, the ulcers are caused when the
>>>body’s white blood cells try to go after these bacteria and fail. I
>>>remember reading an article about the guy who proved it by ingesting some
>>>of the bacteria himself, developing an ulcer, and then making the ulcer
>>>go away by taking the appropriate antibiotic.

>>>In any case, developing an ulcer in two weeks isn’t out of the question.
>>>What I want to know is, who used the secret ZOG “send bacteria over the
>>>phone” weapon without clearance from the higher echelons?

>>>—–
>>>Richard Schultz [email protected]
>>>Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
>>>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
>>>—–
>>>”I have, if you will forgive the expression, known several bastards
>>>with very high IQs.”
>>> –J. Bronowski

>> I am very tired of ignorant Jews playing games like this.

>Hey Matt. Screw you and your father.

>Andrew Mathis

>————————————-
>”Hehvu z’hirin barashut…”
>”Be wary of the authorities…”
> Rabban Gamliel
> Pirkei Avot 2:3

Are you merely ignorant or are you jewish too?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:55 PDT 1996
Article: 55769 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 07:28:18 GMT
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 17:08:55 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] the
>Troll > drooled:
>>
>> >
>> >On 2 Aug 1996 08:59:42 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 7/30/96 at 22:11, [email protected] the Troll blathered:
>> >
>> >>[snip]
>> >
>> >>>They are ventilated with heated air, just like the Degesh
>> >>>delousing chambers were. It is very old technology.
>>
>> How could they be ventilated with heated air? The last word I got from
>> MVA is that the air was sucked into the chamber directly from the outside.
>> That means the air sucked in would have been the outside temperature.

>Indeed. The gas chambers of Krema II and III were ventilated with outside
>air. During the _summer_ when the outside air temperature was _higher_
>than the temperature in the gas chambers. Ergo, the gas chambers were
>preheated. (During the winter the gas chambers were preheated with buckets
>of red-hot coke.)

It is amazing what you folks will fabricate when you you are
desperate. As we all know, not even a fan has been found much less
the specification for the fan, much less the drawings of the
preheating chamber.

You folks are really amazing.

>> >>Not as old as the “technology” of a mammalian (i.e., warm-blooded)
>> >>body. A full gassing chamber would have a large heating component
>> >>present in the fresh corpses.
>> >
>> > You need to learn something about turbulent mixing some day. It
>> > will be good for you.

>And the Troll needs to learn something about the construction and
>operation of gas chambers of Auschwitz some day. Not only would it be good
>for him, it would be a blessing for the rest of us. Assuming, of course,
>that the Troll’s endless drivel would lessen even a bit.

I need to learn? YOU have accepted MY first post of the need for
heated air in ventilation and then YOU invented out of whole cloth the
idea that they were heated by coke.

Holohuggers are such a fascinating species.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:55 PDT 1996
Article: 55773 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:38:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 5 Aug 1996 22:22 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…

>> What is interesting about the claims of mass extermination
>>by gassing is that all such claims were generated by the
>>Russians.

> This is factually untrue. There are many “claims” of mass
> extermination by gassing made by Nazi doctors and Nazi officers to
> Western historians.

As both Wiesel and Wiesenthal admit there were no mass extermination
gass chambers in Germany and since Neither English nor French nor
American forces liberated any territory to the east of Germany, it is
unclear how they could have found any physical evidence of mass
extermination.

Perhaps you could explain how they made claims for areas they had not
access and and could not investigate.

You will do this to the cheers of the crowds.

> >It is also interesting that at no time did the
>>Russians present any forensic evidence of even small time gassing
>>much less mass gassing. It is even more interesting that at no
>>time did the Russians provide any forensic evidence of even the
>>number of bodies required to support claims of mass gassing.

> This is immaterial as such evidence has been presented by Western
> historians.

Excuse me, historians were not involved in the trials and there have
been damned few historians involved in the holocaust. Given the
number of publications they are noteworthy by their relative absense.

Further not one “historian” or any writer for that matter has
presented any forensic evidence in any manner that would stand before
a first year law student.

But it is interesting to discover you agree with the lack of forensic
evidence at the war crimes trials and thus it was all “testimony” even
though it did not match the facts of gassing.

You are coming along. Please continue.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 13:27:56 PDT 1996
Article: 55776 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:24:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tuv[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:40:16 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> On 4 Aug 1996 15:56:49 -0400, [email protected] (Kevin Filan) wrote:
>>
>> > But I don’t see anyone claiming that My Lai never happened, that
>> >Calley’s confessions were obtained by torture, that photographic evidence
>> >introduced into the trials were forged, and that some shadowy conspiracy
>> >has responsible for perpetrating a “hoax” to smear the reputation of fine,
>> >upstanding Americans.

>[snip]

>> >Yet when dealing with the Holocaust, something
>> >which seems to me at least as well-documented as the My Lai massacre, I _do_
>> >see all these things.
>>
>> The forensic evidence of bodies that died of bullet wounds of US
>> calibers was also introduced into evidence. That kind of evidence is
>> what is lacking from the gassing evidence. In fact the Russians even
>> failed to “discover” cyanide traces when they were clearly needed for
>> the chain of evidence of gassing.

>I’m going to do some further checking on this, but I believe you are
>incorrect about the forensic evidence being _key_ to the prosecution’s
>case in Calley’s court-martial. The case was mostly pursued through
>eyewitness testimony of soldiers who witnessed and participated in the My
>Lai massacre; if you can cite a source that claims otherwise, please do
>so.

Do your research but I never said any particular thing was “key” to
anything. I pointed out that this particular bit of physical evdience
was essential along with many other pieces of evidence. Witnesses can
claim all they want. If you don’t have bodies with wounds that
confirm the testimony, you don’t have jack.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 14:53:08 PDT 1996
Article: 55789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:47:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 1:49:13 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Aug 1996 00:48:26 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/5/96 at 4:07, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>
>> The Roman Empire was.
>>How do we know? From Rome to Western Europe, to Eastern Europe, to
>>Africa, the Mideast, all around the Mediterranean, thousands of miles
>>of roadways, hundreds of miles of aqueducts, hundreds of sculptures,
>>murals, scores of amphitheaters, arches, law, innovations and a
>>extensive written record. Tangibles.
>>
>> The Holocaust was.
>>How do we know? Eye-witness testimony, special interpretation of
>>documents.

>Apples and oranges. You’re comparing an entire culture and society, a
>thousand years of building, arts and culture, spread over an entire
>continent against 5 years of activities confined largely to one country
>(Poland).

>Try comparing oranges and oranges. E.g., using your ludicrous
>criteria, prove the occurrence of the Plague Epidemic of the 15th
>century.

>Oh, and PLEASE try to do so in complete sentences.

Apples and apples, (one of) the plagues of the 15th century is no
different from mass extermination by gassing.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 14:53:09 PDT 1996
Article: 55791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: speaking of “witness” evidence
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:15:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 3:17:34 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

It was a bit of a surprise but now well known that 70% of the US Black
community believes that AIDS was invented why Whites to exterminate
Blacks.

Given the same level of “evidence” as at Nuremberg, the case is
closed, Whites are guilty as charged.

Such beliefs could not be so common were there not some truth behind
them. 70% of the Blacks know of it, it has to be true.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 14:53:10 PDT 1996
Article: 55794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Extermination or Sterilization
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:21:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 3:22:51 AM CDT 1996
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On 6 Aug 1996 07:19:47 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Why was SS doctor Clauberg at Auschwitz in 1943 allegedly doing research on sterilization methods to be
>used in regard to the Jews if the SS had orders to exterminate them? So many >stories…..so many lies.

What was someone allegedly doing something?

I wonder why the holohuggers are allegedly screwing small farm animals
for the same reasons.

Is it not amazing that they hold and document a huge conference at
Wannsee to create a smoking gun for the holohuggers to point to and
then never another word, meeting, whatever.

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 17:21:14 PDT 1996
Article: 55800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 09:23:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-23.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 4:24:45 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 17:23:35 +0000, Chuck Ferree
wrote:

>The Dachau Gas Chamber

>Chuck Ferree writes: Some people still question the existance of a gas
>chamber at Dachau. Even though I personally saw it several times in
>April of 1945. I have photos of the gas chamber, I have spoken with
>other witnesses, American military personell who remember seeing the
>gas chamber. We were told by inmates that the gas chamber had been
>used by the SS to kill people. I have read in numerous books, personal
>accounts of the gas chamber being used to kill people. It happened,
>this is historical fact and I wish those who speculate about these
>Holocaust facts would either prove that I am mistaken, that I didn’t
>see a gas chamber at Dachau, which was used by the SS to kill people,
>or they would shut the hell up.
>Chuck Ferree

Weisel and Wiesenthal both say you are full of shit. Why not contact
them?

From [email protected] Wed Aug 7 20:05:03 PDT 1996
Article: 55825 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 06:57:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 258
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 1:59:02 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 10:05:43 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> First off your basic numbers are at odds with people who know
>> something about cremation. Again, the internet cremation society for
>> openers.

>Try again, Matt. Numbers are numbers. Prove your contentions – or admit
>that you’re BSing to keep from admitting your ignorance.

The research amounting to speaking to people with years in the
cremation business and who have testified on the subject in court has
been posted here. If you were so busy you missed it, go find it on
DejaNews.

While you are searching you should also read the discussion on the
incongruous decision to build crematoria instead of faster
incinerators.

You have missed so much in this disucussion that it behooves you to
bring yourself up to speed before engaging in the discussion.

>You’ve joined the ranks of Al Gentile, Ken Pangborn and Tzipporah
>Benavraham in being willing to distort the facts to win an argument.

I have no interest in your free associations.

>> Second you have not thought through the mechanics of dumping the 1 cm
>> sieve “ashes” into the local lakes (without flow) and the river. (Not
>> to mention using them on icy walkways and the like.)
>>

>Without flow?!?! More “NOT SO! NOT SO!”

What conceivably is “not so” when I simply repeat statements the
holohuggers have made here.

>As for the mechanics involved – the daily volume wasn’t *THAT* great!
>Hardly a major logistics effort!

In the lakes it is cumulative. On the ground it is cumulative. And
it the river, now that our local river “expert” appears to be honest
enough not to repeat his previous errors, the issue was NEVER
logistics just as it was NEVER HCN being unsuitable.

You really should find the time to follow the discussion or withdraw
until you have the time.

>> Third you have not addressed the ashes, clinkers and such, from the
>> coke itself, given that it starts at 70 kg per body it should
>> certainly have ashes on the same order as the “human” ashes thus
>> doubling the real amount that are there to be found.

>Here we go round again! The testimony given by one of the Denier’s own
>witnesses states that there was virtually no fuel needed. That the
>bodies burst into flame with little effort.

That claim comes from something in writing produced by the Russians
who never produced the person in court. The idea that no fuel is
needed is totally absurd.

>Yet you claim that it took 70 Kgs of coke?!?

That is the BTU equivalent of the natural gas commonly used today.
Why would it take less under Nazi Physics?

>BTW – even if it did, the ashes would have been a minor amount of that
>and the river flow was still more than adequate to get rid of it all.

You certainly know more about fluid flow than to make that claim. And
then there are the lakes and the land.

>> And after these obvious points you have missed the main point, no
>> ashes have been reported found by any “investigator.”

>Except in the crematoria, of course.

What a strange place to find the remains of those cremated. I should
have thought of that myself.

>Gee! Considering that the reports that the ashes were eliminated by
>dumping in the river, the fact that no ashes were found is hardly
>surprising!

And as we have a very slow moving river and given what you certainly
know about fluid fluw, you can not have thought about it and be making
this claim. Or are you suggesting the remains float?

>> Now it is clear that there were deaths from disease and they were
>> cremated it is interesting that not even the coke ashes have been
>> reported having been found. Of course that means no one is looking.

>So? You’ve made very little progress so far in your contention, let
>alone shown any evidence.

>Why should they have looked?

That is like asking how there could have been an OJ trial without
bodies. If you are going to make allegations of mass murder it
certainly helps to have physical evidence of mass murder. As it
stands we have no physical evidence after over fifty years.

And people get upset when this is pointed out.

>> It has been interesting to see so many people running down the road of
>> claiming the human “ashes” can not be found when in fact no one has
>> been looking for any ashes of any kind.

>IOW – You’ve just shot yourself in the foot!

>If no one looked, then *YOUR CLAIM OF NO ASHES FOUND IS SHOT TO HELL AND
>GONE!*

You have implied in this message that there is a reason for the ashes
not being found, that the river removed them. What you should have
done was bypass this one or erase your earlier response before I
pointed out that no one was looking.

And if you review your fluid flow you will certainly agree the ashes
are either still there or an estimatable distance downstream moving as
a mass. That the Russians did not feel it necessary to verify the
stories in 1945 speaks volumes for the basis for their case.

>> Remember some day the following true statement. There has been
>> exactly one examination that even mimics forensics and another one
>> that is a professional embarrassment by an organization that can not
>> be ascertained to even exist.
>>

>Please provide details, Matt. prove that you even have anything at all.

Again, it has been posted many times. It is the Kracow Forensic
Institute report. Try DejaNews. And note that it has one data point.

>> LOOKING FOR the ashes would be elementary to a forensic investigation.
>>
>> But as reality would have it the fact is that any such investigation
>> would be challenged as being questioning the unquestionable. Further
>> what would be the value of any such investigation when reporting a
>> negative result in personal attacks and professional villification.

>IOW – you have no reason as to why forensic analysis was not done to
>your standards.

Read the thread of the discussion and get back to me.

>Just the old conspiracy claim.

>Prove it, Matt.

Go read it first and raise any questions you have as to my position on
the subject.

>> Rather more interesting is what has happened. Primarily writers, but
>> a few historians and one pharmacist have written about it (and if
>> lucky having visited at least once what they are writing about) to
>> ascertain the details of HOW a given conclusion happened rather than
>> WHAT happened.

>An ad hominem or 3 to avoid the fact that historians study history?!?

Historians create history. Until we have time travel perfected they
do not study it.

>BTW – that pharmacist – I have degrees covering math, physics,
>chemistry, electrical engineering and a few more disciplines, with
>minors in other subjects. Yet I’m a computerist by trade.

>In fact, I was working for quite a few years before I went back for
>graduate work in Computer Science – mostly because there were dweebs
>coming out of school with no brains and a degree in my chosen field.

>So, whatever that pharmacist-turned-historian had as a degree had
>nothing to do with his qualifications in his *CHOSEN* endeavors.

In general, the writings are not by historians.

As to it not being worth the time of a historian, consider Leuchter,
even assuming his work was worthless, it resulted in NOT ONE technical
rebuttal. It was all personal attack.

Now I am certain you could have done as credible a job as Leuchter but
if you had and followed the analysis to the same conclusion, you would
have been personally attacked. None of your cross-disciplinary
qualifications would have been considered.

So why should a historian accept the personal and professional
villification that would follow anything like a negative result?

>As for your demand for forensics:

>If Joe Blow gets shot in the chest by 10 gunmen, is there an autopsy
>performed to assure that he didn’t die of cancer?

First, an autopsy IS performed. It is a required bit of evidence.
Remember the OJ trial? Two slashed throats. The cause of death was
obvious. Autopsies were performed.

Second, there is a body to autopsy. There were no autopsies that
found gassing as a cause of death.

>Overwhelming volumes of evidence are found. Thousands of witnesses.

We are talking about gassing. And as I corrected you, the issue is
that the reports of the witnesses to gassing do not match the facts of
gassing.

When witnesses report the impossible it is only evidence that they
were not witnesses.

>But “There was no neutron analysis of the ashes” is the type of excuse
>used?!?!

I have never mentioned the type of analysis. I am still awaiting the
ashes in the first place.

>Fifty years ago, forensics was not a fraction of the science of today.
>It was not called in unless the evidence was otherwise suspect.

There was obvious reason to suspect the evidence as there was no
evidence of mass murder or gassing until the Russians invented what
little they could.

>Today, for too many cases, it’s called in more to provide CYA evidence
>in case a lawyer tries to nitpick the situation to death. In 99% of the
>cases it does little else. In 1% it exonerates the accused or puts the
>clincher on the case.

When there is a claim of mass murder, it is first required to produce
evidence of murdered masses.

>> As you should expect, it gets worse than this but enough for now.

>IOW – you lost the argument, made many hand-wavings and vague
>accusations and use the same tired “conspiracy” and verbal ellipses to
>avoid displaying your utter ignorance.

How could I have lost an argument when I was merely describing the
facts?

>I’m embarassed to think that you could ever have provided any real
>battle, Matt.

You should be embarrassed but for other reasons.

Do you ever intend to get back to the first issue I disagreed with you
on? That being that the descriptions of gassing do not match the
facts of gassing. Why did you never respond to the the real issue?

Why all of the BS instead?

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 07:43:07 PDT 1996
Article: 55850 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 23:55:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-07.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 4:57:22 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 19:24:01 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>[snip]

>> It still comes down to the fact that P is using the testimony concerning
>> the operation of one type of Krema to characterize the operation in
>> another type of Krema….

>Are you suggesting that Zklon B had different physical properties when
>used in Krema II as opposed to Krema V? That people, when confined in gas
>chambers and exposed to equivelent concentrations of HCN, _didn’t_ die in
>similar amounts of time?

>> …That is not proof. I have still not seen any proof that the fans would
>> kick in after 5 minutes other than the fact that you and P are obviously
>> committed to this notion.

>Indeed no _proof_ (i.e. hard evidence) has been offered. No claims of such
>were made. What _was_ offered was an _explination_, supported by
>circumstantial evidence and induction, to why it made little sense to wait
>as long as indicated by Ho”ss or Nysizli for the ventilation of the gas
>chamber to commence.

Not only that no fan, no drawing calling for a fan and no foundation
upon which to mount a fan has been found. Of course holocaust fans
aren’t bother by that.

The missing fan appears to be in the category of their “little
chimneys” which are obviously still there to find if anyone chooses to
look for them — if they were ever there.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 07:43:07 PDT 1996
Article: 55871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain’t
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 02:03:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 7:05:38 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:08:33 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>>> >> The fires are said to have been raging all day, day after day,
>>> >> week after week onto months.
>
>>> >The furnaces were to said have been operated continuously _periodically_.
>>> >Specifically, during certain special Aktions, most notably Aktion Ho”ss,
>>> >in which approximately 438,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz
>>> >between May 15 to July 9, 1944. (cf. _Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.627; _Death
>>> >Dealer_, p.45.) Of these 480,000 Hungarian Jews, about 394,000 (90%) were
>>> >murdered in the gas chambers on or shortly after their arrival at
>>> >Auschwitz II-Birkenau.
>
>>> “May 15 to July 9”, ‘1900 to 1996’, or from any ‘May 1 to May 3’,
>>> the heat would have been tremendous in the flues.

>>Hmmm. Must be glosssolalia.

>>> >That the Kremas did not typically operate continuously “all day, day after
>>> >day, week after week onto months” can easily be seen by fact that there
>>> >were gaps in the arrival of transports to Auschwitz (cf. _Auschwitz
>>> >Chronicle_) and that some of the Kremas were not on-line for significant
>>> >periods of time (cf. _Anatomy_, pp.233-237). Krema IV was disabled shortly
>>> >after it became operational in 1943 and was not subsequently used
>>> >thereafter (cf. Ibid. p.234). Krema V, for example, was idled through much
>>> >of (late) 1943 and only came on line in May of 1944 for Aktion Ho”ss (cf.
>>> >Ibid. p.238). Krema I was retired in early 1943 and subsequently
>>> >converted into a bomb shelter (cf. Ibid. p.159).
>
>>> Regardless, considerable periods of time went on with the
>>> furnaces burning continuously.

>>Which is quite different than your claim of “all day, day after day, week
>>after week onto months.”

> As the typical Holocaust practices go, we have the story tellers
>saying when convenient that the Cremas were operating continuously and
>when convenient not so continuously.

> I’m notr the one claiming “all day and all night”. The Holocaust
>story claims it. I just cite the claims.

> The fact is, the story has the Cremas running at full blast for
>days, weeks and months.

Except when planes taking pictures fly over so as to avoid
incriminating photographs.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 07:43:08 PDT 1996
Article: 55872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Re: Eight Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 6)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 10:14:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u4k7m$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-34.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 08 3:16:43 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:55872 soc.history:7556

On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 13:39:00 -0800, [email protected]
(Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[Eight questions that Giwer still refuses to answer deleted.]

>> And of course these are all questions that McVay refused to read the
>> answers to the first time because he has me in his killfile. And he
>> continues to spam the net with questions that he refuses to listen to
>> the answers to.

>You’re not in my killfile, and I still haven’t seen you answer the
>questions. If you did then refer to the articles for a Deja-News search.

>> McVay is a lying asshole who abuses the net for his personal reasons
>> of self agrandizement.

>Libel, little man. Prove or retract.

Sue, asshole.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 07:43:09 PDT 1996
Article: 55873 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/”Images” and Rip Van Winkle
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 10:16:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3205fa00.5877[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-34.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 08 3:18:17 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 14:33:47 -0400, Alec Grynspan
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> As to the copyright violations on Nizkor, the holders have to object
>> to all, and sue all, or ignore all. They can not selectively object.
>> So anyone can feel free to “steal” and attribution to Nizkor makes
>> Nizkor the first and only target of a lawsuit.

>As to knowing the law, I would suggest a good course or 3.

>Jeez, Matt! It was mandatory for ENGINEERING STUDENTS to learn the
>basics of the legal system! Where the hell did you learn yours – from
>the top of a box of Cheerios?

I refer to to the “star wars” and “Mr. Natural” cases for your
edification. Please do not bother me again until you have reviewed
them.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 10:31:08 PDT 1996
Article: 55897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Nizkor: promoter of lies
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 00:45:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tcovo$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-07.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 7:47:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:55897 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:421

On 7 Aug 1996 11:53:53 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 05:23:54 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Parliament does not apply in the US and never will. We are armed.
>>
>>>Is this the Mr. Giwer who never makes threats?
>>
>> Statement of fact, fatbroad.

> It is a fact that the Constitution could not be amended to implement a
>parliamentary system?

That would be like lifting up the hood ornament and driving a new car
under it but calling it merely amended. It would be a sham. It would
be a new government were that done. It would then be up to the states
to join it or not. It happened once before in the transition from the
Articles of Confederation.

>Going to start shooting if it is?

Anyone who has ever taken an oath to support and defend the
constitution has a moral right to do so.

>> I am still waiting for the FBI to show up.

> I will tell you something for your benefit.

> Naturally before visiting any sensible agent will want to know what
>level of threat you may represent.

You mean he will assess my ability to mobilize half of the Marine
Corp?

> Of course they will have read your web pages, including your political
>views on guns and Waco. They will also have read some of your more
>irrational and incoherent posts.

It is only the holohuggers who consider my posts to be that. Or are
you folks so far gone you really believe it?

> If I were an FBI agent coming to see you, I would be prepared for the
>worst. The very worst.

Freedom of speech violations?

> I suggest that you be polite. Very polite. Also, keep your hands in
>sight and don’t make any sudden moves.

Right. Thanks a lot.

>> I presume they had a great chuckle over McVay’s “complaint.”

> Does the fact that a Justice Department attorney was in my home
>recently asking me about you change your presumption any?

It was the FBI last time you told the story.

From [email protected] Thu Aug 8 18:23:24 PDT 1996
Article: 55940 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 07:10:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 12:12:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Aug 1996 00:36:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/4/96 at 6:23, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Of course, you worked like hell to learn engineering but you were born
>>with a knowledge of the truth of the holocaust. That means you were
>>born with the knowledge of steaming, electrocution and suffocation.
>>But you simply forgot about those IMT established methods over the
>>years.

>Forget the IMT. In fact, why don’t you take the IMT transcripts, _all_
>of ’em, print ’em out on heavy construction paper in a 72 point font,
>fold ’em until they’re all sharp corners and stuff ’em up your wazoo.

>Based upon your apparent anal-retentiveness, the fiber would do you a
>world of good.

That was both highly creative and of the intellectual and maturity
level of holohuggers in general.

>Do I have your attention? Probably not (you’re probably indulging in a
>rare priaptic stage induced by visions of doing the above), but it’s
>worth a try. _I_ don’t go by the IMT findings. Never read ’em, don’t
>have any pressing plans to do so. I don’t use ’em, don’t quote ’em,
>never have, probably never will.

That is the only basis for all of the gassing claims. You should
consider them.

>Now, without citing IMT transcripts, make your case. Base your case
>upon the writings of respected, mainstream Holocaust historians such as
>Reitlinger, Hilberg, Yahil, Fleming, etc.

They are not historians. Other than that, not a bad try.

>Okay, I’m through. You can go back to diddling yourself.

That idea seems to turn you on in your ignorance.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:20 PDT 1996
Article: 55983 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here’s a novel idea
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:12:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:14:31 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 15:32:55 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/7/96 at 14:52, [email protected] wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>
>>My GOD, Mr. Giwer, but you’re an idiot.
>>
>>You said:
>>
>>
>>> It is more acceptance than correctness. Here they all are with
>>> feelings of persecution and they are taking after those they suppose
>>> persecute them. From birth they have been indoctrinated with “you are
>>> jewish, you are persecuted” and it is difficult for them to cast off
>>> that foolishness.
>>>
>>> Were any of them ever persecuted? Other than being gassed six times
>>> that is. Of course not.
>>
>>What a broad and wide-reaching statement! You, I take it, have interviewed
>>EVERY JEW in the world, in order to come up with this amazing assertion.

>Giwer seems to overlook (one can only conclude intentionally) the
>_fact_ that many of the people who oppose him are not Jewish, but
>Gentile. I am not Jewish, but WASP. This _fact_ is uncomfortable for
>Giwer and his lowly ilk.

I am not uncomfortable with that in the least. I know how braindead
WASPs are. After all, they are the lifeblood of the KKK and the
neonazi movement.

Were I one, I would not advertise it.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 56000 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain’t
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 02:05:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Aug 07 7:07:07 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:41:13 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>>I take it you mean by “aechological [sic] evidence” the flues? It is
>>rather self-evident, considering that the construction plans clearly
>>indicated they were underground, and that eywtiness testimony indicated
>>that they were underground, that they were indeed underground.

> I challenged, where is the “archeological evidence”, and
>VanAlstine responds with “construction plans” and “eyewitness
>testimony”.

Eyewitnesses with x-ray vision, no doubt. Of course references to
eyewitnesses are an ever popular even when none has made such a claim.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:22 PDT 1996
Article: 56006 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here’s a novel idea
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:10:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 113
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:12:21 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Aug 1996 20:16:09 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[nothing of consequence, as usual]

>>My GOD, Mr. Giwer, but you’re an idiot.

>Direct, as always, Sara….

>>aka the fatbroad with the tits

>You will be contacted with regard to your FATBROAD t-shirt.
>They come in one size, from Omar the Tentmaker. Ostrovsten
>will fill you in. Say nothing to your neighbors; remember your
>sister’s cat.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

If you have looked at the table of death versus time you
will be surprised to note there was another gas used that was
reported to be nearly as effective. That gas is plain engine
exhaust, carbon monoxide.

The eyewitnesses report the
time to death quite at variance with the stories of the first gassings. They
rather uniformly report death from Zyklon B, hydrogen cyanide as
on the order of ten to fifteen minutes. On the other hand
eyewitnesses to execution by carbon monoxide report with similar
uniformity death in fifteen to twenty minutes.

Of course that is totally and
completely contrary to the relative toxicity of the two
materials. But those are the reports so it is necessary to look
further to explain this.

Unfortunately, there is
nothing to look into. Unfortunately every place where claims of
death by carbon monoxide is claimed has been destroyed.

Most commonly the claims are
made for Treblinka. Treblinka is a place that would otherwise
appear to be a staging area for brining in people from one area
and then separating them into groups and moving them to different
destinations. This is based upon a very few aerial pictures and
some few reliable descriptions.

And the emphasis has to be
upon reliable descriptions as stories about it started
circulating long before the war was over. It was reported to be
a place of mass extermination early on. Unfortunately that does
not add to the credibility of the claims.

There were four methods of
extermination reported, electrocution, steaming, gassing, and
suffocation in vacuum chambers. Testimony of all four methods
was introduced at the war crimes trials. It has only been
decades later that three of the four methods were dropped from
consideration.

Unfortunately for those who
“dropped” three of the four explanations, they had no basis for
doing so. There was no site to examine, not to mention that it
was behind the Iron Curtain in Poland and examination was
forbidden.

There was no basis in
“credibility” of the witness as testimony to all four methods was
introduced and none rejected by the Tribunal judging the war
crimes. There was close up and first person testimony to each
method introduced into evidence. It was not the speculation of
far away spies.

So the other gas, carbon
monoxide, we can not explain for several reasons. We do not know
if it was used. We have no physical evidence to examine. It is
completely up in the air as to whether or not it was used or if
places like Treblinka even happened.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:23 PDT 1996
Article: 56030 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 06:59:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 12:01:47 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 13:57:54 GMT, [email protected](Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:
>>The research amounting to speaking to people with years in the
>>cremation business and who have testified on the subject in court has
>>been posted here. If you were so busy you missed it, go find it on
>>DejaNews.

>Matt, now that I have visited your webpage and seen your picture, I
>feel I know you much better. I wonder why, though, that a man with
>such obvious creativity feels the need to assault women on the
>internet? Life is full of mysteries, ain’t it?

When you take the time to trace back the first messages I received
>from those women, explain to me why they opened the posts to or about
me with insults towards me.

That is not normal female behavior. Explain when you get the time.
Why did they do an aggressive, male thing towards someone they had
spent no time getting to know?

Or were they just upset that they were not treated as “ladies” after
what they first posted?

>As far as professional cremation is concerned, I must differ with you.
>You are attempting to compare apples and oranges. Modern American
>mortuary practice i to cremate bodies in caskets, one at a time. You
>can’t compare this to multiple cremations of uncasketed bodies. No
>way.

That were questions asked and the replies given.

1) wood is more fuel and thus speeds the process.

2) cremation time is a direct function of the mass to burn and thus it
is would be the total weight of the bodies that would increase the
time to burn.

Both factors mitigate towards shorter rather than longer cremation
times. Quatitatively for the casket? The casket the question will
have to be asked of crematoria that rent caskets, which is an option
in Florida at least. But the answer for body weight was that the time
to burn was determined by the amount to burn. That fits all common
experience with burning things. (Put a big log on the fire.)

And if any of the holohuggers were interested in research on the
matter, all they would have to do is find a crematoria interested in a
few experiments. One dog vice three dogs. Dog in a casket vice dog
without a casket.

Absent such experiment one goes with both experience, learning and
knowledge of professionals all of which point towards longer times.

And further you have to realize where the 20-30 minute cremations
times come from. NOT from even “eyewitness” testimony but from
arithmetic to check the validity of the testimony.

What is going on here is analogous to a witness claiming that he drove
>from NYC to Chicago in one hour, the skeptics dividing to find the
miles per hour and then the supporters of the witness claiming that it
is possible to drive a car 600 miles an hour.

>Also, as far as ashes are concerned, remember that ash makes pretty
>good fertilizer and it has been recorded that farmers regularly made
>trips to Auschwitz to pick up cartloads of the stuff.

Where is this recorded? You have introduced something completely new
to the discussion.

But then where are they in the lakes and the river? (Which is
reported.)

And remember that you are going to have to produce a record of HUMAN
bone fragments which are far from what we would call ash. It will
have to be a separate record from coke ash.

If you can do so you will be the first to do so.

You will also notice that the people who will be attacking me for this
post will post nothing quantitative in response. That is because they
are incapable of doing so.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:24 PDT 1996
Article: 56031 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:08:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4tf96j$510@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:10:05 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 21:18:18 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 23:55:12 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>[Followup = alt.revisionism]
>>
>>>[email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>>
>>># Why did the nazis chose Zyklon B for the killing of
>>># humans in the concentration camps?
>>
>>>Because it was simple and cheap. Two very good reasons.
>>
>>># Why didn’t they chose sodium-cyanid crystals poured
>>># down in sulphuric acid like they have done in execution
>>># gaschambers in the USA since the twenties and still do
>>># today?
>>
>>>Why bother? There was plenty of Zyklon-B around, and simply
>>>throwing it into the chambers, via the openings, was good enough.
>>
>>>Why bother with a more complicated procedure?
>>
>>># In this case they could have saved themselves all the
>>># trouble of inventing fancyfull “wiremesh columns”.
>>
>>>Are you quoting Giwer’s rubbish now?
>>
>>>The wiremesh columns were a very simple, very cheap thing
>>>to build.
>>
>> It appears you are not knowledgeable enough to deal with the sulphuric acid
>>claim. I warned the wrong person it seems.
>>

>Rather than be personal in your unfounded attack above, I suggest you
>explain to Danny WHY wiremesh columns wouldn’t be a very simple, very
>cheap thing to build. You will, of course, substantiate your claims,
>will you not?

Those claims, including their very existance, are up to little boy
Danny to establish. I simply point out the nonsense of his
assertions. And tbey are very nonsensical and very little boy like.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:24 PDT 1996
Article: 56041 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:11:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tqqs7$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:13:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:39:59 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>> Ehrlich606 is too scared to reply, but they look like shade on the
>> side of square little chimneys. But then I was able to view the
>> original this weekend. 🙂

>As was I — to be precise, not the original, but Pressac’s reproduction
>of the original. The original is at the Auschwitz Museum.

>Viewing Pressac’s reproduction through a 6x loupe, I can safely say
>that I agree with Mark Van Alstine’s analysis. There is a rectangle
>to the right of the shadowed areas which is slightly but recognizably
>lighter than the Krema wall behind it. This is the front face of the
>chimney. The dark areas are the left faces of the chimneys.

>You can sort-of check this by pulling up Nizkor’s scan of the image.
>It isn’t as good as having Pressac in front of you. If you want to
>try, pull up:

>https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/documents/pressac/insertion-columns-detail.jpg

>and compare the brightness values inside the chimney face to those
>outside. The pixels inside the chimney rectangle (351,240,367,256), for
>example, have a median of 202; inside the Krema wall rectangle
>(374,390,204,220), they have a median of 198.5. According to
>Photoshop’s Histogram feature.

Now that you are learning to use some of the basic tools of the trade
it is time you learn more.

First, without the original picture, what you have posted is
meaningless. You have a histogram of a halftone scan of indeterminate
original resolution. Your histogram therefore includes the black
halftone pattern and it not representative of the original picture.

Second, medians by themselves mean nothing.

The third through 55th I will leave until you have learned more.

>But it’s not nearly as good as looking at the dots in Pressac’s
>reproduction through a loupe, trust me. Or do you doubt me? If so,
>find your own copy of Pressac and a loupe. I would have scanned the
>individual dots in his reproduction but I didn’t have access to a
>scanner with ultrahigh resolution, I’m afraid.

You are looking at the halftone, you idiot.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:25 PDT 1996
Article: 56042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:24:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tuv[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:26:19 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:23:28 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:40:16 -0700, Marty Kelley
>> wrote:

>[Matt Giwer wrote]

>> >> The forensic evidence of bodies that died of bullet wounds of US
>> >> calibers was also introduced into evidence. That kind of evidence is
>> >> what is lacking from the gassing evidence. In fact the Russians even
>> >> failed to “discover” cyanide traces when they were clearly needed for
>> >> the chain of evidence of gassing.
>>

>> >I’m going to do some further checking on this, but I believe you are
>> >incorrect about the forensic evidence being _key_ to the prosecution’s
>> >case in Calley’s court-martial. The case was mostly pursued through
>> >eyewitness testimony of soldiers who witnessed and participated in the My
>> >Lai massacre; if you can cite a source that claims otherwise, please do
>> >so.
>>
>> Do your research but I never said any particular thing was “key” to
>> anything. I pointed out that this particular bit of physical evdience
>> was essential along with many other pieces of evidence. Witnesses can
>> claim all they want. If you don’t have bodies with wounds that
>> confirm the testimony, you don’t have jack.

>On the other hand, no matter what bullet wounds were in the bodies, the
>forensic evidence in the Calley case would have said very little about
>what orders Calley gave, the behavior of his men, etc–all that came from
>eyewitness evidence that corroborated the physical evidence. With ONLY
>physical evidence, you also don’t have jack.

And WITHOUT physical evidence, as with the gassing stories, you have
nothing either.

What point are you trying to make here? There must first be physical
evidence which can either stand alone or with corroborating testimony.

With so many millions of murders you would think that there would be
the first bit of physical evidence OF THE STORY AS IT IS TOLD.

But there is none whatsoever. It is all quite interesting.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:26 PDT 1996
Article: 56043 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: “Ash Gets In Your Eyes” – Giwer’s New Theme Song
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:03:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 145
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4u9jf[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:05:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 14:09:03 GMT, [email protected](Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <4[email protected]> [email protected] (Ehrlich606)
>writes:
>previous discussion on the amount of ash snipped

>>>Wow. No problem to get rid of that ash at all.
>>>
> Exactly true, Mr. E:

>ASHES
> What became of the ashes of the victims at Auschwitz and
> other extermination camps that cremated the bodies. Of
> course this is a disrespectful and nasty question, since it
> suggests that there is some deception taking place, but let’s
> consider it anyway. The
> inference is that whatever amount of oyster-colored ash was
> found by liberation forces was not “enough”.
> First, I’d like to point out that ALL bodies at
> Auschwitz were not cremated. There were also mass graves
> and, in fact, the decomposing bodies in the swampy land
> surrounding Birkenau caused many problems not the least of
> which was poisoning the water table (and thereby, the
> drinking water for Birkenau and the surrounding area).
> However, the land was not swampy in the vicinity of
> Auschwitz I or III and there mass graves were utilized.
> However, for the bodies that WERE cremated, the ash was
> well disposed of.
>
> Consider these facts:
> If you assume a (generous) average of 1 kg of ash per body, and
> assign an arbitrary specific density to ash of 1.0 (i.e.,
> equal to water), then 1 kg of ash will occupy 1000 cubic
> centimeters, which is equal to a cube that’s 10 cm on a
> side. There are 1000 such cubes in a cubic meter (1 cubic
> meter of water = 1000 liters = 1 metric tonne), so each
> cubic meter would hold the ashes of 1,000 people. 1,000
> cubic meters would contain the ashes of 1,000,000 people
> (1,000 x 1,000).
> A U.S. football field is 50 yds wide by 100 yds long.
> That’s close enough to the same area as a 50 meter by 100
> meter plot for our purposes, so: 50 x 100 = 5000 sq.
> meters = 1 football field. Put 2 football fields
> side-by-side, for 10,000 sq. m.
>
> 1,000 cubic m. 1 cubic m.
> _______________ = __________ = 10 cm depth
> 10,000 sq. m. 10 sq. m.
>
> 2.54 cm = 1 in. Call it 2.5 cm/inch, even– 10 cm = 4 in.,
> so you could spread the ashes of 1,000,000 people 4″ deep
> over two football fields.
> A Cat D-9 operator would have no problem moving such
> small amounts–especially over a four-year period– Not
> much more than a small rise on the landscape. We also know
> that thousands of acres around Auschwitz were “under the
> plow,” and ashes make a good soil amendment.
> Looking at it from another perspective:
> 1,000 cubic m. = 10 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or a 10 meter cube.
> 10 m. is approx. = to 33′, thus you could put the ashes in
> a hole in the ground that’s 33′ long, 33′ wide and 33′
> deep.
>
> Not a big deal.
>–
>Annie Alpert
> The Nizkor Project:
>Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
> * * * On the web * * *
> WWW.Nizkor.org

Why are you wasting your time with this crap when the internet
cremation society has a website and has the raw data you are guessing
at in a FAQ?

The link has been posted here many times.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

Guess what? I found a gas chamber in the old Reich. I have also
found powdered cyanide.

“Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling-
the dummy shower heads. In the engineers’ room- the intake and outlet
pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve
to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal
smoke. From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the
crematory.”

IMT XXX – p.470.

Amazing what you can find if you look around.

And holohuggers are going to believe it.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: How many tons of bone fragments?
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 02:31:58 GMT

http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml

Dec 26, 1995 @
Q. What’s left after a body is cremated? It’s ash, but what size are
the
pieces? Are they fine, like
dust, or larger? Can you still see pieces of bone or teeth?

A. Tony, After the cremation process is complete, all that is left is
very brittle bone fragments.
Many of the bones are still distinguishable although not fully in
tact.
Technically, there are no
ashes left at all but the term “ashes” is used to describe what is
referred to as cremated remains
or cremains. The pieces of bone fragments are then processed into a
fine
powder and placed in
the urn selected. What remains after the cremation process is
approximately 5 to 7 pounnds of
cremated remains.

800,000 at Treblinka x 5 lbs = 4,000,000 lbs = 2000 tons of bone
fragments missing. Buried in a 5 acre area. 400 tons of bone
fragments
per acre, approximately 15 pounds of bone fragments per square foot.

1,200,000 at Auschwitz. 3000 tons of bone fragments capable of
passing
through a 1 centimeter mesh.

My thank again to Van Alstine for this website.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:27 PDT 1996
Article: 56047 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:49:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 1:51:37 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:53:30 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) babbles:

># What is interesting about the claims of mass extermination
># by gassing is that all such claims were generated by the
># Russians.

>And the Poles, and the Germans, and the Jews…

># It is also interesting that at no time did the
># Russians present any forensic evidence of even small
># time gassing much less mass gassing.

>False; the ventilation grills of Krema III were tested in
>1945 and cyanide compounds were discovered on them.

>Why do you lie so much?

It is interesting that you felt compelled to make that up. Perhaps
you can point to Nizkor or any other site that supports it?

>Do you have any idea what a service to the holohugger
>community you are? I’m going to make an American (no,
>make that a world-wide) hero from you, Giwer.

Giving you folks the opportunity to make up claims about the vacuums I
point to?

>I’m going to take all the rubbish and lies you’re posting,
>and make sure, whenever I’m writing or talking about
>Holocaust deniers, to mention them, and to mention that
>they came from the most active denier on the internet.

>Like this one. Like the one about Belsen being in Poland.
>Like the one about the mention of gas chambers and gassing
>cellar in the documents meaning nothing, because they were
>due to “morbid humor” of some SS-man. Like your jokes about
>the photo of the women being shot.

>You’re going to be a BIG hero, Giwer.

>And I will also be sure to remind everybody of your claim
>to have an IQ of 163. That’s the best one.

Sorry, but as you know, there was no such Russian forensic search made
much less was it positive.

What depths of creativity will you next sink to?

Or, what is the URL? Please do not forget to post it, holofabricator.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:28 PDT 1996
Article: 56050 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:42:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4tpq[email protected]> <4tqbj8$[email protected]> <4u0dp[email protected]> <4u[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4u8i[email protected]> <4u9h[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:44:21 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2416 alt.revisionism:56050 alt.conspiracy:76097 alt.politics.white-power:38644 soc.culture.jewish:67217 talk.politics.guns:296636 talk.politics.libertarian:109850 talk.abortion:180840 alt.christnet:90014

On 8 Aug 1996 05:22:08 GMT, [email protected](some bizzare guy on
the internet) wrote:

>Whoever says the holocaust doesn’t exist can talk to my grandmother.
>She was put in a concentration camp, saw her entire vardo (clan) of 50
>people reduced to ashes, and raped numerous times by German officials.
>Fuck up.

> Robert Rothenbrew
> http://www.netcom.com/~fische11/
> I refuse to engage in a battle of the wits with the unarmed.

It is fascinating that you would invite people to contact your
grandmother without providing a means to do so. I presume you have at
least forwarded her name to “Spielberg’s List.” If not, it would be a
good thing for you to do.

As you may know, us skeptics NEVER expect any of the raw interviews or
uneditted transcripts to be released. From what we have now, we know
that the raw information is the death of the gassing stories.

The raw statements are always agains the gassing stories. As you have
grossly overstated, all her clan did was die of disease, she saw no
burning unless other testimony is false.

One would hope that the US government contribution had a string
requireing full and immediate disclosure without editting in any
manner. It will be a revisionist treasure trove. But of course, that
will not be a condition. Holohuggers know better than to agree to
that sort of thing.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 08:02:29 PDT 1996
Article: 56051 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:42:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <31fcca2e.14[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <4tpq[email protected]> <4tqbj8$[email protected]> <4u0dp[email protected]> <4u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:44:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2417 alt.revisionism:56051 alt.conspiracy:76098 alt.politics.white-power:38645 soc.culture.jewish:67218 talk.politics.guns:296637 talk.politics.libertarian:109853 talk.abortion:180841 alt.christnet:90015

On 7 Aug 1996 22:20:02 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> I am very tired of ignorant Jews playing games like this.

>And the rest of us are very tired of Mr. Giwer’s incessant
>Jew-baiting.

>–
>Harry Katz

>Do not buy stolen goods.
> — The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

A wise man can not be baited.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:36 PDT 1996
Article: 56056 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:29:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:31:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 06:29:44 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:

>On 8/7/96 at 8:28, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Aug 1996 00:44:56 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/5/96 at 0:42, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> The forensic evidence of bodies that died of bullet wounds of US
>>>>calibers was also introduced into evidence. That kind of evidence is
>>>>what is lacking from the gassing evidence. In fact the Russians even
>>>>failed to “discover” cyanide traces when they were clearly needed for
>>>>the chain of evidence of gassing.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine the prosecutor at the OJ trial trying to prove their throats
>>>>were cut without any forensic evidence of cut throats.
>>>>
>>
>>>Purchase a large piece of beef, e.g., a brisket. In private, fire a
>>>round into it. Then make a large laceration in it.
>>
>>>Burn it to ash. Prove you shot and cut it.
>>
>>>This attempt’s not even up to your usual lax standards.
>>
>> Despite the beliefs of holohuggers, bodies are not burned to ash with
>>the application of a Bic lighter. Even crematoria to not burn bodies
>>to ash. www.cremation.com if I remember correctly.

>In writing the above, and in proof-reading it, and now in re-reading
>it, I recall no mention of Bic lighters. Please point out where I
>mention them.

You would be advised to read the conference before you jump in. I
have posted genuine eyewitness testimony as to the existance of a
special Nazi method of burning bodies without fuel. Would you prefer
a kitchen match instead?

You newcomers are advised to read a few months of history before you
jump in.

>> But do not give up, there are two or three major claimants that
>>exactly that is possible in the holohugger camp.
>>
>> Maybe they will come forward and make their case just in the nick of
>>time to make you look like less of an idiot.

>Were I an idiot,

I was not aware that was in question.

I would need only to point to you for comparison.
>After such comparison was made, I could easily obtain a scholastic
>scholarship to the university of my choice, as it seems the difference
>between your mental ability and brain-death is as great as the interval
>between infinity & infinity + 1.

Not eve clever much less creative.

>Now that we’ve insulted one another, perhaps you can direct your
>attention to the grist of my post…and answer it in a civil fashion.

When you come up to speed on the discussion, get back to me.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:37 PDT 1996
Article: 56072 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 06:59:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <4ti[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <3[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 12:01:55 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 31 Jul 96 20:13:10, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Wed 31 Jul 96 04:48][Wed 31 Jul 96 14:05][0]*>

> mnc> Nor do I have to note that your blood sugar swings cause
> mnc> great changes in mood and lucidity.

>My blood sugar is doing quite nicely, Matt.

>My mood doesn’t change very much at all.

How would you know?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:38 PDT 1996
Article: 56073 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:01:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 12:03:33 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 31 Jul 96 20:23:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Wed 31 Jul 96 05:10][Wed 31 Jul 96 14:05][0]*>

> mnc> I am beginning to think you have given up your engineering
> mnc> honesty on this subject.

>I never give up my honesty. My posts may cause you to believe I’ve
>said one thing when I said another – but that’s old legerdemain
>stuff.

> mnc> You have refused to come back to the original issue of the
> mnc> descriptions of ZB gassing not matching HCN gassing.

>But – that has already been settled.

>You lost that argument.

I have posted three distinctly different “eyewitness” reports of
gassing that do not describe HCN gassing, none of which anyone,
inluding you, has addressed.

Just what do you think you are talking about?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:39 PDT 1996
Article: 56075 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:56:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:58:30 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Aug 1996 20:05:22 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:35:34 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>Not a single one, as I recall. You’re saying I posted this, you better
>>>present my articles. If not, you’re lying and slandering. Post these
>>>articles, or retract your claim.
>> Your memory gets very short when you want it to be short. Do you
>>really think I keep copies of everything you post?

> Ever hear of DejaNews, Matt? It’s been mentioned several times recently
>on this newsgroup. The URL is http://www.dejanews.com and you should contact
>your ISP if you don’t have Web access.

I am not only aware of it but (AS YOU KNOW) I have referred many
[people to it who refuse to go to it.

So what, given what you know, is your point?

> Of course, that assumes that you actually *want* to do that and that
>you are not a dishonest troller, which of course, you are.

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:39 PDT 1996
Article: 56076 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:57:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:59:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:30:38 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>Giwer claimed I posted something. When asked to present
>it, he writes:

># Your memory gets very short when you want it to be
># short. Do you really think I keep copies of everything
># you post?

>Listen, you senile piece of dreck. If you’re accusing me
>of posting something, you better have the proof.

Is that another threat?

>You bloody idiot. Look up dejanews, if you can’t recall
>where I posted it.

That is what I suggested to you so that you may learn what has
actually gone on.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:41 PDT 1996
Article: 56077 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:00:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:02:46 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 17:58:39 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> The amusing thing about the US law is not that it can confiscate the
>property
>> (or cash) that arose from the crime but rather that property that was at one
>> time owned by a drug dealer can be confiscated from an innocent present
>owner.

> The Supreme Court has held that the property of a bona fide purchaser
>for value cannot be confiscated. Nor can property transferred to an innocent thrid
>party by court order.

>> If you do not mind a hypothethical case.

> I do mind hypothetical cases. They mean notheing other than your
>opinion. Where are the real cases?

>> And the worst of it is that it has been effectively approved by our
>Supreme
>> Court.

> The citation for this is? Why do not the people prosecuting such cases
>know about these decisions?
>>
>> This may appear extreme to the point of ridiculous but then a single
>property
>> was taken from the present owner because three owners back it was bought
>wtih
>> drug money.

> Is this your report — which lacks credibility — or a real court case? If the
>latter what is the citation?

> Come on Matty poo, where are the cases

You are a holohugger who does not know the difference between
testimony and physical evidence. Why would anyone credit you with
knowledge of the law?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:42 PDT 1996
Article: 56080 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:16:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3200df2d.71525[email protected]> <3201769c.45919[email protected]><3200df2d.715255[email protected]> <3201769c[email protected]> <4tt[email protected]> <4u69sc$qto@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><3200df2d.71525[email protected]> <3201769c.45919[email protected]><3200df2d.715255[email protected]> <3201769c[email protected]> <4ttb[email protected]> <4u69[email protected]> <4u7jd[email protected]> <4ubr7j$1p2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:18:00 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 08 Aug 1996 13:56:17 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>That’s a good point, Bill and one I am sure all ZOG operatives are memorizing
>>as we speak, err… write.

> The best McFee can do? Evidentely.

Actually if you give McFly one response a week he will waste hours
sending hundreds of mindless messages in that week to you and about
you.

You only need to send him one message a week to do your part in
keeping him off the streets and reducing the crime rate.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:42 PDT 1996
Article: 56081 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:25:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 3:27:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 15:20:18 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> failed to “discover” cyanide traces when they were clearly needed for
>> the chain of evidence of gassing.

> I would have written some response to this but since the term “chain of
>evidence” does not appear in Black’s Law Dictionary or Wigmore on Evidence or
>Feldman’s Pennsylvania Trial Guide and I have never heard it used, it makes a real
>response very hard.

> Matty poo seems to be making up his law again.

> –YFE

Of what value the opinion of someone who can not tell the difference
between a body with a fatal bullet wound and testimony?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:43 PDT 1996
Article: 56082 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I’m not a revisionist but here’s a thought
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:59:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4u9m1[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:01:27 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 17:53:53 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Tue, 06 Aug 1996 11:54:57 -0700, Rich Graves wrote:

>: >This is true. The consensus is upwards of ten million, 5-6 million of
>: >whom were jews.
>:
>: The consensus of holohuggers that is.

>Yup. The consensus of holohuggers, which is the term Matt uses to refer
>to almost every historian who’s ever studied the issue, along with the
>vast majority of human beings on the planet–everybody, in fact, except
>a small body of nuts, antisemites and nazis, who present no evidence and
>make no arguments, but insist that we believe in a gigantic, overarching,
>perfectly efficient conspiracy which has deceived us all for fifty years

>BECAUSE-THEY-SAY-SO!

I use the term to everyone who, like a creationist, appears otherwise
sane but has a total belief in gassing without the slighest bit of
physical evidence.

But you know that, holohugger.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 10:52:44 PDT 1996
Article: 56083 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: demography, the missing jews
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:50:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 1:52:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Aug 1996 16:02:20 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> Neither the US nor Russia keep statistics by religion so there is no
>> way to find out what happened in either country.

> Matty poo is making it up again.

> Under the Truman Directive (1946) and the various DP Acts (1948 and
>1950) statistics by religion were kept. It should be noted that the U.S. kept such
>statistics for quota immigrants as well, until the 1960’s. They still keep such
>statistics for thos admitted as political refugees if it is relevant to refugee status.

> The U.S.S.R. always issued separate passports for Jews which were
>considered a “national ethnic group.” I have seen a passport issued in 1995 with
>that designation.

> Gee, Matty poo, do you ever get tired of being wrong?

> –YFE

Do you have URLs are is this more holofabricator trash?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 11:45:58 PDT 1996
Article: 56086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the Zyklon B graph – zb.jpg (0/1)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 04:56:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-30.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 08 11:58:25 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Here is the graph that was under discussion two weeks ago. As the
sourcing is incomplete, it is useful only as one of maybe two other
quantitative posts on the material.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 11:46:00 PDT 1996
Article: 56087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:27:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:29:46 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Aug 1996 01:41:00 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
>> I am very tired of ignorant Jews playing games like this.

> Watch it, Matty poo. We might start calling you and asking for your
>son’s phone number.

> What happens if we ask for your daughter’s number? Diverticulitis?

When you ask for my daughter’s number you are ready for the grave.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:33 PDT 1996
Article: 56093 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!zdc!news4.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racists in Georgia
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:18:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 31 1:19:23 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 29 Jul 1996 22:35:01 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> Speaking of racists, the Olympic bombing suspect has been identified as a
>> white American male based upon a phone call.

> Matty-poo is apparently attempting to prove that eye-wtinesses are
>worthless again. His technique is based on his distorted and dishonest repetition of
>what he claims to have seen or read. When it is conclusively debunked he then
>jumps up and says: “See. All eyewitnesses are worthless because I am a liar.”

> For the record, the FBI description of the bomber as “white” is based upon
>eyewitness testimony about him, not the telephone call.

You are truly whacked out as there was no claim whatsoever that there was any
eyewitness at the time I posted the message you are responding to. There was
also no such claim as of 2am 7/31. You really should find the time to keep up
with the news.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:35 PDT 1996
Article: 56097 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.erols.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the Zyklon B graph – zb.jpg (1/1)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 04:56:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 1142
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-30.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 08 11:59:01 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

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M4DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDE__]#W%)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
M))))!NQ<:^QC[*FO?7JUSAJWX*3J*76MM=6TV-!:'$:@'D(;<'#;Z>VA@],$
M,AH]H/,?%,[I^”ZAE)QJS6PRUNT0T^7@HC!Q_MS,K:!8RLUM@#1I*LV,9:QS
M’M#FN$$’@A53TKIIQV8YQ*C2P[FU[1M!\0%.W`P[K!990QS@“2/#C[E’)Z9
M@95A??C,L<0&DN'('9$&'C#)&0*FBX-V!_?;X*-.#BT6FVNH-?KK)TGF/"59 M223%P'*9KMW'"DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDO_]'W%))))))))))))))))))) M))))))))))))))))))))))))))-`2A.DDDDFC64Z22222221X46SW4DDDDDE M_]+W%))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 1))))))(\*(Y3GD)TDDDE_]GI ` end From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:36 PDT 1996 Article: 56100 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer) Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Giwer Meets His Match Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:27:26 GMT Organization: images incarnate Lines: 25 Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2422 alt.revisionism:56100

On 8 Aug 1996 21:28:07 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> I am more than a match for all the ignorant, jews or not.

>Indeed! But the moderately intelligent give Mr. Giwer the fits.

More than a match for a snipe hunter like you.

You do nothing but nip at my heals.

Otherwise you are ignored.

Like McFly.

You will note that I respond to perhaps one in ten of your posts at
most.

That is all you are worth at best.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:37 PDT 1996
Article: 56102 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report — Zyklon B
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:22:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u7v5l$f[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:17:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:

># Whereas the atomic bomb was an improvement, as far as being
># able to destroy, and wasn’t developed until a certain
># time, at which time they used it, Zyklon B was there
># already. It is also evident, going by Holocaust facts,
>that
># carbon monoxide was used with relative ease compared to
>what
># the Germans had to go through with Zyklon B.

>Hardly. Bottled CO was rather expensive and difficult to
>ship around in large quantities. Engine exhaust caused
>problems (we have the report about an explosion taking
>place in Chelmno), engines would break down, and it is
>not clear how it would apply for the huge gas chambers
>of Birkenau.

>Zyklon-B was available at large quantities; it was cheap; a
>very small amount can kill thousands of people; and the SS
>had a great deal of experience with using it.

What an asshole.

You have been the strongest supporter of CO at Treblinka and suddenly
when it is not the hottest thing since sex in another place you are
all over it.

This is the usual holohugging crap. Used Russian and German for that
matter tank engines were as available at A-B as at Treblinka.

Deal with reality, not with the spin you think you can put on it.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:38 PDT 1996
Article: 56103 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: speaking of “witness” evidence
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:23:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u9je[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Aug 1996 19:53:32 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: It was a bit of a surprise but now well known that 70% of the US Black
>: community believes that AIDS was invented why Whites to exterminate
>: Blacks.
>:
>: Given the same level of “evidence” as at Nuremberg, the case is
>: closed, Whites are guilty as charged.
>:
>: Such beliefs could not be so common were there not some truth behind
>: them. 70% of the Blacks know of it, it has to be true.

>Cool, Matt. When you find the official documents outlining this
>plan, and when government agents start confessing en mass, you let
>us know, okay.

>Until then, here’s a nice puppy for you to play with…

>Bill

Bill is a puppy?

I have only pointed out what surveys have uncovered.

Do you have a problem with that?

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 13:44:38 PDT 1996
Article: 56104 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McFly
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:24:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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His only skill appears to be finding the workd ausrotten in a
dictionary.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 16:23:48 PDT 1996
Article: 56126 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 05:13:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 265
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u1duj[email protected]> <4u2gvo$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Aug 1996 13:28:01 GMT, [email protected] (Stefan
Schneider) wrote:

>In article , [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>wrote:
>>
>>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>>
>># The Peters’ report mentions 1 to 2 hours, by Mr.Keren/Nizkor
>># relating, which was for prussic acid, no mention of Zyklon B,
>># which the related material Mr.Keren/Nizkor gave included the
>># statement that grain size was unknown. Who knows? Maybe it
>># was liquid.
>>
>>No, it explicitly says Zyklon was used. Look it up. It’s
>>on the web.
>>
>>BTW, the conjecture made by “ehrlich” is irrelevant; the
>>Paters-Rasch paper is from 1941.

>Not to mention, that liquid hydrocyanic acid explodes, when contacted with
>oxygen and alcalics. Somebody here doubting that concrete is very alcalic?

It is interesting to read that when cans of ZB were opened they
exploded. That does sort of make the entire use of ZB rather
worthless, does it not?

Is there anything else you would like to add to this discussion? Such
as the english word for alcalic?

In your copious free time, browse this.

HCN Technical

Hydrogen Cyanide technical
information

Chemical composition

HCN

Names

hydrocyanic acid, prussic acid, hydrogen cyanide

Boiling point

25.7C/78.3F at 760 mm Hg

Specific gravity

0.69 at 18C/64F

Vapor density

0.947 (air = 1)

Melting point

-13.2C/8.2F

Vapor pressure

750mm Hg at 25C/77F 1200mm Hg at 38C/100F

evaporates easily

Solubility in water

100%

Appearance

clear

Color

colorless to slightly bluish depending upon concentration

Odor

bitter almond, very mild, non-irritating (odor is
not considered a safe method of determining presence of the
poison)

Hazards

Unstable with heat, alkaline materials and water.
Will explode if mixed with 20% sulfuric acid.
Polymerization (decomposition) will occur violently with
heat, alkaline material or water. Once started, reaction is
autocatalytic and uncontrollable. Will explode.
Flash point: -18C/0F
Autoignition temperature: 538C/1000F
Flammable limits in air (by volume): lower 6%, upper 41%

Source: Hydrogen Cyanide , Dupont Publication 7-83.

Commercial sources

The Dictionary of Chemical Compounds

“Derivation: (a) By catalytically reacting ammonia and air with
methane or natural gas. (b) By recovery from coke oven gases. (c) From
bituminus coal and ammonia at 1250 degrees”.

Toxicity by inhalation

Concentration (mg/m3)	Effect
300	Immediately lethal
200	Lethal after 10 minutes
150	Lethal after 30 minutes
120-150	Highly dangerous (fatal) after 30-60 min.
50-60	Endurable for 20 min. – 1 h without effect
20-40	Light symptoms after several hours

Note these are rules of thumb and
are not to be taken as absolutes. Death is caused by a total
amount per kilogram of body weight that enters into the body. In
light of that, simply examing the concentrations and times
reveals there is no direct relationship between them.

Many factors could cause this
as HCN interferes with the nervous system that of course controls
breathing.

Means of toxicity

Cyanide binds cytochromes much
in the same way that oxygen does, by conjugating at its open
site. Unlike oxygen, cyanide cannot receive electrons from
cytochrome a3.

           
   -:C=N: (note - actually a triple bond between C and N)
     |
---Fe(+2)--
     |
    His

With the ETS deprived of its
electron “sink”, the whole system backs up. Without the ETS,
oxidative phosphorylation will dissipate the H+ gradient, ATP
synthesis will stop, and the cell will die. Cyanide binds
cytochromes more tightly than oxygen, and as a result is lethal
at very low concentrations, at about 300 ppm. The effect also
occurs at hemoglobin, as cyanide will bind to that too,
preventing oxygen from reaching cells. In essence, this is how
cyanide kills cells and whole organisms.

Hemoglobin

Cyanide is most effective on
warmblooded animals such as mammals, but is less effective on
insects. While insect mitochondria and vertebrate mitochondria
are not radically different, one thing is: Hemoglobin.
Vertebrates carry oxygen in their blood via hemoglobin, while
insects do not carry oxygen in their blood at all. Instead,
insects have air tubules that carry oxygen directly to all cells
in their body. Because cyanide poisons hemoglobin too, animals
that use it are all the more susceptible. Also (while I am not
sure of this) insects may be more tolerant of anaerobic
metabolism than vertebrates.

Since cyanide binds to
hemoglobin much in the same fashion as it binds cytochrome a3,
cyanide takes hemoglobin out of commission as well {9}. With
their oxygen carrying molecules bound by cyanide, vertebrates die
all the faster from asphyxiation. Mammals are also very
dependent on oxygen- utilizing metabolism, and will die in
minutes if it is shut off. Insects, lacking hemoglobin, die more
slowly as their cells must be starved of ATP. Insects may also be
able to survive longer on anaerobic (non-O2 utilizing)
metabolism.

Cyanide kills by binding to
cytochrome a3 in the electron transport system. As this site is
usually bound by oxygen, the passage of electrons from the ETS to
oxygen is prevented, backing up the system. Unable to maintain a
proton gradient without a properly functioning ETS, ATP synthesis
stops and the cell dies. In vertebrate organisms, cyanide also
binds to the porphyrin ring in hemoglobin, exacerbating cyanide’s
toxic effects.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 16:23:51 PDT 1996
Article: 56127 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:40:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4tke3r[email protected]> <4tm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4u[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 08 Aug 1996 20:28:32 -0300, Keith Morrison
wrote:

>Miloslav Bilik wrote:

>> > Since this is your field, why are you ignorant of the velocity
>> >difference between the boundaries of a river and the center of a
>> >river? Or are you overlooking what you clearly have to know in the
>> >rush to create some plausibility for the idea that the ashes would
>> >have washed away so quickly?
>>
>> You can easily find the actual average flow of the Vistula is 970m^3/s
>> at Varsow.

>Woohoo, *numbers*!

>Going back to the Amazon, it discharges 3 million tonnes of sediment per day
>with an water flow between 34 and 121 million litres per second. We’ll
>use the higher figure. Given 1000 litres/ m^3 we get a flow of 121 000
>cubic meters per second. Three million tonnes a day is 34.7 tonnes per
>second. That is .00029 tonnes per cubic meter of sediment transported.

>If we take 2.7 kilos of cremated remains per person, with a million
>people we get 2700 tonnes. Assuming the Vistula can carry the same
>sediment load as the Amazon, that 2700 tonnes requires 9 310 345 m^3
>to move it. At the given flow rate, this will require a grand total
>of 9600 seconds.
>
>Oh dear. I seem to have gotton rid of all the ash in 160 minutes…

You REFUSE to respond to me on the issue of the actual size of the
bone fragments. You REFUSE to respond to me on current speed near the
banks and bottom.

Yet you continue to try to represent bone fragments as mud.

This is clearly an attempt to decieve on your part.

You are joining two self professed chemists in the matter of deception
despite scientific knowledge.

It is rather disgusting to see people do things like this.

But then in your case, a strong back was a terrible thing to waste.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 17:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 56131 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Neo-Nazikor Project
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 22:40:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4tbbt[email protected]> <132306z2[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4u3k2e[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-43.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 5:42:11 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 09 Aug 1996 14:12:30 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Would you care to provide a link to the site you claim to have created
>> that won and an award from your host?
>
>http://www.checkfree.com
>
>The award is from the Internet Professional Publishers Association (IPPA).
>It was awarded in November of 1995.
>
>The site was also named a “cool site” by Infoseek.

So what was your part in creating the site?

>Happy? Now how about answering some of OUR questions, jerk.

Who is our? If McVay wants answers he can be here to read the answers
directly.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 19:41:38 PDT 1996
Article: 56153 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 05:15:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u1du[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-30.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Aug 08 10:17:25 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:53:04 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> Peters’ book of 1933 where he says that *the greater part was released
>> after 1/2 hour*

>That’s at least the second time you’ve misquoted Peters. “Greatest,”
>not “greater.”

And it is the umpteenth time (for those of you in Canada, that means
many times) you have failed to note that “the greater part” is a
technical term in German referring to exponential decrease.

From [email protected] Fri Aug 9 19:41:40 PDT 1996
Article: 56155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer blows the big one
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:12:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 682
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4u64n[email protected]> <4u9n1o$14s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-18.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 09 2:14:08 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 07 Aug 1996 20:27:19 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Aug 1996 00:47:54 GMT, [email protected] (Gary) wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/5/96 at 0:54, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>>> What is interesting about the claims of mass extermination
>>>>by gassing is that all such claims were generated by the
>>>>Russians. It is also interesting that at no time did the
>>>>Russians present any forensic evidence of even small time gassing
>>>>much less mass gassing. It is even more interesting that at no
>>>>time did the Russians provide any forensic evidence of even the
>>>>number of bodies required to support claims of mass gassing.
>>
>>>Reality check:
>>>————–
>>
>>>”…So it fell to Gerhard Riegner, the WJC’s [ed.: World Jewish
>>>Congress] representative in Geneva, to play a role in one of the most
>>>fateful episodes of the period.
>>
>>>Riegner was on close terms with many members of the international
>>>community based in Switzerland, and at the beginning of August 1942 he
>>>received a notice from the German industrialist Eduard Schulte, who had
>>>access to Hitler’s headquarters and reported that the fu”hrer had
>>>decided systematically to destroy all the Jews of Europe, using poison
>>>gas for this purpose.
>>
>> Interestingly Eichmann and Hoess make this same report but that they
>>had no decided which gas to use.

>Huh?

>> Browse the file at the end to read
>>of it. However, this is a fascinating report and predates every
>>other claim. I would like to have a copy of it and the source for
>>record purposes at least.
>>
>> Of course Hoess reports the decision to use gas without the knowledge
>>of which gas to use. It is an odddly backward decision that I intend
>>to explore more thoroughly.
>>

>Really? You are actually going to do some work?

>[snip]

>> It is fascination that word of gassing reached people that early, even
>>before the first HCN gassing experiment but when CO gassing was in
>>full swing.
>>

>Reading this statement you seem to suggest that gassing isn’t gassing.
>HCN or Carbon Monoxide is still gassing, Mr. Giwer. Gasing folks with
>trucks did come first after all.

Actually the trucks from Degesh that were mobile delousing vehicles
came first. Knowing that it is obvious how the war time rumor
started.

>> So far no one has explained why Hoess did not simply copy a method
>>equally effective as HCN, that being CO.
>>

>Who says i was effective as CO? You? I’ve read differently.

You have not read the eyewitnesses who claim it was equally effective.
I have posted many of them. That you have not read them is your
problem. Hie thee to DejaNews.

>>>From Hilberg:
>>
>>>”Following the highly public roundups of Jews in Paris and Warsaw
>>>during July, news of the greatest import was received in Switzerland.
>>>As summarized in a message, dated August 8, 1942, by the chief of the
>>>Geneva office of the World Jewish Congress, Dr. Gerhard Riegner, the
>>>report referred to a plan discussed and under consideration in the
>>>Fu”hrer headquarters according to which the Jews of Europe were to be
>>>deported to the east and “exterminated at one blow” to resolve once and
>>>for all the Jewish question in Europe. Among methods “under
>>>discussion” for planned action in the autumn was prussic acid…

>> Save of course this contradicts ALL THREE versions of the “discovery”
>>of ZB by its time frame and by the discussion of using it prior to its
>>”discovery”. It looks like I am going to have to find a way to fit in
>>a fifth column into the following to cover this version of the story.

>Huh? Would you take you time when you post? Where are the
>contradictions in *your* mind? It says that various ideas were being
>tossed around. You need to be more specific about your concerns so
>that folks can put it all together for you. It seems that this is
>something you are incapable of doing. We are here to help.

It is a wonder I still have time for the slow minds in this
conference. Browse this.