Giwer Matt, 3-1996 – p4

> Perhaps I should have posted your parents’ full address and phone
>number. After all, it too is publicly available if you know the right web
>site. Would it bother you if I did that? After all, it would not be my
>fault since I am only making available what others have already made
>available.

> For any purpose whatsoever.

That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were anything to
happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing you ever
do. I hope that is clear.

Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

I have in mind revealing holohuggers for what they are to the media and you in
particular. That should set you terrorists back a bit.

What should be a civilized discussion in a single newsgroup becomes the basis
for exactly the kind of terrorism holohuggers claim they risk but never
receive.

Your professed martyrdom is amusing but not believed in the least.

>[…]

>> Why do I always find myself among such ignorant amateurs?

> Stop looking in your bathroom mirror. Still wondering about that
>gopher mail from Israel, ignorant amateur? It did not take root access
>though you were ignorant enough to think so.

Now that was really clever.

Rather as to the gopher mail, the acceptance that it in fact happened while I
played dumb, supports you holohugging bastards being the slime you are. You
folks are slime, the slime of the earth. Not worthy to consider yourselves
human. It is good that you took to opportunity to admit it.

>>But you can not send it there. As last reported he has no tax exempt
>>status

> So you are saying that only what is reported here is true and remains
>true until something different is reported here.

It is true that a) contributions were being solicited and b) at the time of
the solicitation there was no tax exempt status. AG reports that is criminal.
Next question.

Is Nizkor tax exempt now? If not, the solicitation is still illegal under
Canadian law.

>>and no contributions can be passed to a person without tax exempt
>>status by any organization.

> Somebody had better tell the Salvation Army that their soup kitchen is
>illegal. I seriously doubt those homeless people have tax-exempt status.

The Sallies are tax exempt. Nizkor WAS NOT at the time time soliciation. So
far as is know, Nizkor is still not tax exempt making the solicitation
criminal.

Why do I not report this?

1) Canadians can deal with their own law

2) The longer it continues the greater the penalties

> If Matt would only get some facts before flapping his fingers he might
>be able to make a contribution here. But he’d be far less entertaining.

Is Nizkor currently tax exempt? What is their number?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 12:21:13 PDT 1996
Article: 36910 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Giwer’s “credibility” cannot be in the toilet!
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:11:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 1:12:20 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36910 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:275

On 22 Jul 1996 13:22:11 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote, to Matt Giwer:

>>For the record:

>> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
>> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
>> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
>> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
>> stopped spamming.
>> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>>flamewar.

>Retract at ONCE, Mr. Lewis! Mr. Giwer HAS no “credibility,” so it quite
>clearly cannot reside in the toilet (unless that’s why he can’t seem to
>find any). You owe him an apology – but then you already knew that 🙂

>https://nizkor.org/encouragements/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>BTW: Nizkor humbly apologizes to those of you who find our website slow
>and unresponsive. After Mr. Giwer pointed out that we “didn’t know what
>the hell we were talking about,” we determined to improve your access,
>and continue to work towards that end 🙂

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, please
>redirect into alt.politics.white-power, an equally vapid dumping ground.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

A lying, libelous site that needs be shut down for the common good.

Is anyone missing his email address?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:15 PDT 1996
Article: 52519 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “I will … this weekend.”
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:17:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <31f0cd46.4[email protected]> <4ss37g$77o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <31f230a7.29549[email protected]> <4sv41[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:18:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 15:05:22 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:24 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>:
>: > Now here is Mr.”McFee” with something else.
>:
>: There us no one inside McFly.

>Make it stop. Please.

Tell it to McFly.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:15 PDT 1996
Article: 52521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:47:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rvsis$e4e@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4sm[email protected]> <2af[email protected]> <4sp9ag[email protected]> <4su[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 7:48:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:28:48 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Excuse me but I was talking about the real Passover, not the post 1492 Passover fair.
>> When you learn something about it, get back to me.

>Try a little learning yourself, Matt. The basics of a Passover meal
>haven’t changed in almost 3000 years.

Potatatoes?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:16 PDT 1996
Article: 52524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer has definitely lost it.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:23:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:24:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:05:49 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Well – to those that I made my prediction to in Email:

>Has he lost it or not?

>Is my timing online or not?

>Matt wants to declare the topics of alt.revisionism closed because he’s
>lost every argument, has had his nose rubbed into the fact that it
>actually happened – complete with the mass gassings – and has been shown
>repeatedly that he can’t even do basic logic or science.

>Don’t pity Matt, although he is pitiable, because pity is a terrible and
>demeaning thing.

>He refuses to admit that he can’t have what he most desperately wants –
>to win at an argument thru superior ability.

>His actions are predictable.

>His skills, I regret to say, are miniscule to marginal.

>I truly regret it, because there is no effort required for handling him
>- only a willingness to be patient with his nonsense and keeping him on
>the same track.

>Others have learned this, so he’ll slowly find his efforts at avoiding
>the consequences of his statements less and less effective.

>His latest attempt at evading reality, by declaring his loss a win,
>should be ignored. Get him on track and require that he finish his
>vegetables – er – sequence.

>Perhaps he’ll learn to maintain a track long enough to conclude what a
>silly little boy he’s being for a purportedly grown man.

>This NG may be just what he’s always avoided – and always needed.

>Only time will tell.

Is there some point to this novice nonsense?

You clearly know better than this. You have been around long enough.
Did you really think I approved of your nonsnse by my silence>

Alec, you are very foolish in this one.

Get back to finishing up your contract and come back when you have intelligent
time to spend,

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:17 PDT 1996
Article: 52525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:35:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:35:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 10:24 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…

>>And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never threatened
>>a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.

>>All of the message traffic about the lawsuit had no basis in anything I
>>said, save for the paranoid.

>/begin cite
> Subject: class action lawsuit
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/13
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:33:06 AM CDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Is there anyone here interested in a class action lawsuit against McVay
> and Nizkor?

> I will be collecting these and forwarding them to an attorney who may
> be or may not be interested in the case depending upon the responses
> and the documentation supporting those responses.

> Please respond email.
>/end cite

>/begin cite
> Subject: lawsuit threats
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/17
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Wed Jul 17 5:12:26 AM CDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Where was the outrage when “Gord McFee” was the first to initiate that
> threat? Where was the ridicule? Where were the responses that are
> nonsense in either direction?

> No where of course.
>/end cite

>/begin cite
> Subject: in the manner of suiing
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/15
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Mon Jul 15 1:25:22 AM PDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Also of interest is that there are six or seven contributors listed on
> the Nizkor site. Two of them are “co-webmasters” but certainly it is
> possible they are contributing defamatory material making the RICO
> conspiracy even wider and more people to be named.

> They should all be named.

> The joint and several liability under RICO for treble damages should be
> of interest to most any “contributor.” Of course if they can prove
> they did not contribute to the defamation …

> But then, they were only following orders.

> But then, the only reason I am leaving Nizkor on line is to accumulate
> evidence.
>/end cite

> Other than these you mean?

> [note to other readers that in each of these cases the subject line of
> Giwer’s in initialized with the cited post. In all three cases the
> subject line underlines his intent.]

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

That is correct, stupid shit.

Not one, not ONE threat to file a lawsuit.

You holohuggers are very stupid, not to mention gullible.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:12:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:13:02 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Jul 1996 06:29:21 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan writes:

>>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>> You have identified me as a troll.
>>
>>Yes – because you are.
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry abut that but this conference is a not a troll but a
>”take no
>>> prisoners” game.
>>>
>>
>>You already lost, Matt. Sorry, but your inability to see that is part of
>>your current problem.
>>
>>You miss the real purpose of this NG, Matt. Even many of the long-time
>>participants miss it.
>>
>>Think about it. Draw some thread shift diagrams. You should be able to
>>get the real use for this conference.
>>
>>BTW – your claim to be destroying it is foolish. You are doing an
>>excellent job of assisting in that purpose. The person who has done the
>>most to damage that function is one of the folks that you label the
>>”gang of six” and he doesn’t even realise it – yet.
>>
>>

>I am curious to know what AG thinks the purpose of the conference is.
>When I got here I thought the purpose could be to discuss and possibly
>respectfully disagree with others about this topic. I don’t think so,
>now.

>Person A states a position. If Person B can refute it, or reasonably
>differ, he does so. Threads should die or be left alone at that point.
>That is where I usually leave them. But what often happens is that Person
>A responds to B, B responds back to A, and tempers flare. The next thing
>you know it descends into a name calling contest, and then someone loses
>their cool and says something really stupid.

>The only reasonable expectation is that revisionists can state their
>positions, and conventionalists can state theirs. Absent extraordinary
>circumstances, polarizations will dominate, and no one will ever concede a
>point to what is perceived as the other side. In short, Person A and
>Person B are essentially commercials for their respective sides. Who
>knows, if there are lurkers out there — *if* — they might even read the
>respective web sites or even read some books. That would be something.

Well said and it is about time Alec learns the goundrules of this conference.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: get a real god some time
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:07:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:08:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:38:26 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> It was Christian concern that preserved Judaism in Europe.

>Really? In China? In India? In Japan or Africa?

Those countries do not have a fascination with religion as does the west. Of
course you know that.

What you do not like and will moan over is the existance of Jewish Bhudists,
Confucians and Hindus.

They are all partakers of the oriental smorgasbord of religions. They are to
some extent amusing in their character but you will also be amused by the
reverse of Bhudist Jews for example.

>Odd that Jews lived relatively well in those countries until the
>Christians showed up.

They still do. No change. What are you talking about?

>Considering the “concern” showed – It’s on the same level as your
>concern for the facts. They’d be a lot better off without that concern –
>and so would we.

>> They flatter themselves to think otherwise.

>Thank you for confirming 2 things:

>1. that the Jews never needed the Christians.

Of course they did in Europe. Otherwise they would be no futher than
Zoroastrians.

>2. That you truly struggle to maintain your unbroken record for getting
>it wrong.

You creative potential is diminishing.

BTW: I will simply drop you like McFly when you have nothing more than than
bandwidth waste.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:23:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:24:36 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 12:43:50 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) who claims to have no religion gives us
>the Bigot’s Creed:

>> For those of you not not old enough or with short memories here is the
>real skinny.

> Actually it is for those stupid enough to take Matty poo’s word on
>anyhting.

>>
>> Before 1960 there were no “ethnic groups” in the US. There was only
>national origin
>> as in immigrant group.

> Tell that to the marines. The Blacks were around. The Jews were
>around.

>
>> Some time post 1970 there was a “revision” (always evil) that found
>there were ethic
>> groups independent of nation of origin.

> According to Matt:

> There were no Blacks in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Jews in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Cajuns in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Pennsylvania Dutch in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Mormons in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Gullahs in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Amerinds in the United States until 1970.

> And on and on and on.

>
>> Prior to 1960 anyone claiming there was a segregation by other than
>national origin
>> would have been round of town on a rail if possible as they were all Americans.

> Sure. Jim Crow never happened. Quotas in major universites never
>happened. Restrictive covenants were never enforced by the courts. It’s all a
>fraud invented after 1970.

>> And
>> national origin meant shit save in cities like New York where it is still the most
>> obnoxious city in the country.

> Sure, Matty poo. Ever hear of Chicago? Philadelphia? Boston?
>Birmingham Alabama? The United States?
>
>
>
>> For whatever it is worth, what has been posted is true.

> For whatever its worth. Thgis is pile of shit.
>
>> Many may revile against it but only because it is true.

> Many will revile against it because it is idiotic.
>
>> Many will post against it beu only because it is true.

> Many will post against it because it is a pack of lies.
>
>> It remains true.

> Only in the twisted, bigoted mind of a drunken ignoramus.

> –YFE
Other than you being a total idiot do you have anything else to offer?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:07:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:08:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:05:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># The Degesh document SPECIFICALLY mentions the type used as
># a fumigant as using wood pulp. There were certainly other
># types used for other purposes. The book does NOT (at least
># as far a cited, meaning it probably does some place else)
># connect carriers to usage.

>So what?

>This thread started with one of the nazi-boys commenting on
>the testimony of SS officer Perry Broad, who described the
>Zyklon as small, blue pellets. The nazi-boy claimed that
>there was no Zyklon carrier of this shape and color, right?

This thread was started by me with a discussion of the mauve color that was
brought up in another thread.

>But there definitely was such a carrier: Erco. If you admit
>this, what is your point then?

The document specifically states the type used as a fumigant used wood pulp.
But you know that.

You folks have yet to establish the purpose of the ERCO carrier type or in
fact what ERCO is. And of course we know that silica gel is not cubic to that
is out already.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:03 PDT 1996
Article: 52577 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:51:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <21JUL199608[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:51:46 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 1996 19:47:42 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>> Thanks. I was wondering where to send that Nizkor contribution cheque.

>Glad you brought that up, Dr. Mittleman… the funding is not
>handled through that address.. see
>https://nizkor.org/funding.html for the correct Canadian
>and American addresses for donations and receipts.

>

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax exempt status and
therefore such solicitation is criminal.

Or have you obtained tax exempt status?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52592 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:47:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:47:43 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 05:36:04 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> This time I said nothing about suing.

> Say a prayer tonight, Giwer. Pray that nothing happens to MacVay. Pray
>that nothing illegal is done to the Nizkor site. Pray that no one takes you seriously.
>Make those your prayers every night.

> Ask Tom Metzger what happens to people who make statements such as
>this.

As I said, pray that half the US Marines are not mobilized against him you paranoind
fool.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:45:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rfdaf$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:46:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36937 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26013 alt.revisionism:52618 alt.skinheads:32624

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle
Rivkis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:40:47 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle Rivkis)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>>>This time I said nothing about suing.
>>
>>>No. It might have saved your hide if you had, because threatening to
>>>sue is strictly exercising a legal right, whereas blackmail with un-
>>>specified penalties is a crime. I’ve turned it over to your sysadmin
>>>and intend to turn it over to the police as well.
>>
>> Do you really think they are as dumb as you are?

>I think, unlike yourself, they may follow the law.

Law does not prescribe, it proscribes.

Learn.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52623 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is over
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:31:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:32:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 10:16:16 GMT, [email protected] (Stefan Schneider)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:
>> Only the holohuggers will attempt to continue this nonsense.
>> And the holohuggers are all very stupid.

>I already realized earlier that you are an expert in self-fulfilling
>prophecy, which so far is the only field you’ve prooven to have any
>skills.

How many more fields would you like?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A real dangerous organization
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:46:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:47:04 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Declaration of Principles

The International Third Position is a spiritually motivated worldview which
rejects the received
wisdom of the modern world that all peoples and cultures are doomed forever to
choosing
between Left and Right, Socialism and Capitalism. Based upon a sound knowledge
of human
nature and its interests, the Third Position does not seek an unviable
centrism, but a mode of
Thought and Action that truly transcends the sterile hatreds of the modern
world. The Third
Position, therefore, is the political creed of the twenty-first century. In
particular the International
Third Position supports:

The Primacy of the Spiritual over the Material as the base upon which
Europe will be rebuilt.
The upholding of the Moral Order within society.
Opposition to materialist philosophies including Freemasonry, Liberalism,
Capitalism,
Socialism, Marxism, Imperialism, Anarchism, Modernism and the New Age.
Opposition to Zionism in all its manifestations and support for the
struggle of the Palestinian
People.
Support for the principles of racial and cultural diversity.
Distributism: An alternative to both Socialism and Capitalism based on the
widespread
diffusion of property.

For further information regarding the International Third Position, please
send an S.A.E. (or 2
I.R.C.s) to

INTERNATIONAL THIRD POSITION
BCM ITP
LONDON WC1N 3XX
ENGLAND

International Third Position BCM ITP, London WC1N 3XX, England
Email: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer advances to the rear again
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:41:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sp[email protected]> <4su[email protected]> <4svf[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:42:59 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 18:59:52 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 03:32:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> On 19 Jul 1996 12:30:56 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> > You are so ignorant that its amazing. First of all the *Spanish* ruled
>>>> >Lousiana in 1776.
>>>
>>>> That was not under discussion.
>>
>>> Your ignorance is under discussion. That is part of it.
>>
>> Nor was your bullshit.
>>
>>>> Second, French citizens of Lousiana served at the battle of
>>>> >Baton Rouge, the battle of Mobile, and the battle of Pensacola. French from
>>>> >Louisana also served wilth Willets in his expedition. Further French from what
>>>was
>>>> >later determined to be Lousiana served with Clark in his campaigns.
>>
>>>> 1812 not the Revolution.
>>
>>> No, asshole the Revolution. To be specific the American Revolution.
>>>Since you are apparently unaware of your country’s history why do you talk about
>>>it. To be perfectly clear:
>>
>>> Willett’s expedition took place in 1777, It was a failure but it was
>>>supported by the French planters.
>>
>>> The battle of Baton Rouge (and the lesser battles of Manchac and
>>>Natchez) took place in 1779.
>>
>>> The battle of Mobile took place in 1780.
>>
>>> The seige of Pensacola took place in 1781.
>>
>>> The campaigns of George Rogers Clark took place in 1777 through
>>>1781.
>>
>>> Please tell me which of this activities, all of which had a significant
>>>impact on American history took place during the War of 1812. Perhaps you will
>>>be willing to correct the history books that tell us otherwise.
>>
>>>> You are getting desperate.
>>
>>> I am desperate only to find a period of American history in which your
>>>ignorance is not laughable. Don’t you know that people who are no citizens of
>>>the United States are reading your silliness and laughing at you? You are an
>>>embarrassment.
>>
>>
>> And all of your dates leave us a long way from prior to 1776.

> This is worthy of Tom Moran.

> The question was contributions to the revolution by members of various
>ethnic groups – as we think of them today. Your pretense that the fact
>that “ethnic group” is a recent concept changes reality is amusing.
>The definition can be applied regardless of whether the people at the time
>would understand the term. Do you believe supernovas did not exist until
>they were named by astronomers?

When people did not think of themselves in that manner nor did they act as
though they were members of an ethnic group, there there were no ethnic
groups. Beyond that, I am still awaiting what “groups” folks here are
imagining there were.

> Since the Revolutionary War began in 1776 and Cornwallis did not
>surrender at Yorktown until 1781, that is a legitimate time frame for
>discussing the contributions to the revolution.

> As Alec says, when getting creamed you try to pretend the issue was
>something else – ground shifting.

> How juvenile.

So just what were the ethnic groups you imagine existed? Want to play the
game some more by answering the question?

>>One would think that an American would have better sense than to lie
>>about the history of his own country.

> One would think that Matt Giwer would have better sense than to lie
>about the history of discussions on this newsgroup.

>> Why are you trying to sound like a Canadian ignoramous?

> Give it up, Matt. Your stupidity is clear to all here and your
>pretense that you have not been trounced only makes you look even more
>childish.

Yes, like a Canadian.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor, hate site of the year
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:44:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:45:37 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 03:44:45 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> >> On 22 Jul 1996 03:32:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken)
>wrote:
>
>> >> >Since you are apparently unaware of your country’s history why do you
>talk
>> >about
>> >> >it. To be perfectly clear:
>
>> >> > Willett’s expedition took place in 1777, It was a failure but it was
>> >> >supported by the French planters.
>
>> >> > The battle of Baton Rouge (and the lesser battles of Manchac and
>> >> >Natchez) took place in 1779.
>
>> >> > The battle of Mobile took place in 1780.
>
>> >> > The seige of Pensacola took place in 1781.
>
>> >> > The campaigns of George Rogers Clark took place in 1777 through
>> >> >1781.

>> >> > Please tell me which of this activities, all of which had a significant
>> >> >impact on American history took place during the War of 1812. Perhaps
>you
>> >will
>> >> >be willing to correct the history books that tell us otherwise.

>
>> > Valley Forge was not part of the American Revolution?

>> It appears you are saying those years are prior to 1776. What is your
>point
>> in all of this?

> I don’t believe it. Matty poo is really saying that Valley Forge was not
>part of the American Revolution.

> The point is simple Matty poo. You have stated that no ethnic groups
>made a contribution to the American Revolution. Specifically you asked what
>the contribution of the French in Lousiana was. You have been told. You were
>wrong again. Now go read a book, asshole.

I see what you mean. You are claiming that there is documentation of the
ethnic groups who specifically joined the army and were at the winter
encampment at Valley Forge. Would you care to name them?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:07:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:08:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:11:18 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> For whatever it is worth, what has been posted is true.
>>
>> Many may revile against it but only because it is true.
>>
>> Many will post against it beu only because it is true.
>>
>> It remains true.

>Thank you for confessing the lie.

>Because you have claimed it – it is a lie, therefore your words are a
>lie.

>Because the words are a lie, you are a liar.

>Because you are aliar, the words are not true.

>Silly boy!

>Now – prove your contentions.

>Use Giwer’s rules.

>And – oh yes – show the connection with the already verified gassings in
>the Holocaust.

>This *IS* alt.revisionism, after all.

Thank you for fucking up royally.

I have been told that I contol this NG.

If you think otherwise, take it up with them, not me.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blah-blah, Blaha
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:00:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:01:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:43:26 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

># Simply because he makes accusations does not mean that we
># ought to believe him-we need physical proof as well.

>As this is brought up: can you supply some “physical proof”
>that Dresden was bombed?

>There was a debate here, in which “revisionists” were asked
>to provide such proof. They could not offer anything but
>documents (of which they didn’t present one) and eyewitness
>testimonies.

>Perhaps you can help your fellow “revisionists”? Then, we will
>finally be able to understand what you people mean by “physical
>proof”.

>BTW, clever title! Giwer will probably say your IQ is 153.

>-Danny Keren.

Danny,

You are not bright enough.

Give it up.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52662 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:37:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:38:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:48:17 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing any place at any time can
>> we move on with this conference?

>Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

>This is alt.revisionism.

>Prove your contentions.

>How many repetitions would you like?

It has already been done. I have no interest in backtracking to make up for
your lack of following the conference. You know where to find it.

Do so and get back when you have done so.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52682 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:17:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sv0rf$t5n@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4svn9a$s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 10:18:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:36:29 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) once again revealed his total
>ignorance about the very subjects he claims to know about:

>> What I am still missing about this construction is that given the
>> width and working from the buildings I have seen with this
>> construction, I would expect serious support columns down the middle
>> at least, not just the concrete weight but the snow load.
>>
>> At one point I thought they were going to discuss them but they
>> quickly became hollow with holes for the gas to come out and finally
>> the devolved to wiremesh.

>Ehrlich, is this “skepticism”? Mr. Giwer is not even paying attention
>to the discussions about the concrete support columns vs. the wiremesh
>columns. The two, as I’m sure you know, are distinct — except in
>revisionist writings when the author is trying to confuse his audience.

>This crap about the concrete columns becoming hollow and then becoming
>wiremesh is, well, crap. He’s being deliberately obtuse.

>I would think a “skeptical” person would ask questions, rather than
>make blanket statements about something he knows nothing about. But
>maybe that’s just me.

Except that that is exactly the progression of the discussion on this ng.

Perhaps you could provide information on all of the various columns in one
message. I would certainly be interested in reading it.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52690 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:42:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sptl9$p7q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4ssbgk$[email protected]> <4ssjbo[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:43:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[To Hilary Ostrov]

># Dear Fatbroad,

>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>was his lowest score.

>-Danny Keren.

That is correct, jerkoff and Alec, if he is in an honest mood, will tell you
my opinion of such tests,

But then he has not been in an honest mood since he arrived here.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:56 PDT 1996
Article: 52704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soapmaking for fun and profit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:26:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:27:27 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

” SIGMUND MAZUR: I boiled the soap out of the bodies of women and men. The
process of boiling alone took several days- from 3 to 7. During two
manufacturing processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25
kilograms of soap were produced. The amount of human fat necessary for these
two processes was 70 to 80 kilograms collected from some 40 bodies … I
used this human soap for my personal needs, for toilet and for laundering. ”

IMT VII – p. 598.

=====

First off we note he “boiled the soap out of” which has nothing to do with the
process of making soap. One “boils the fat out of” of course. But of course
this could be a minor mis-statement or problem in translation as both are
mentioned in the same context.

But there is more. The process of making soap is to cut off the fatty tissue
and boil that. (Then to boil the extracted fat with lye, form into cakes and
cool. It is only slightly more complicated than that and those steps affect
the purity.)

But rather than cutting off the fatty tissue for boiling this person boils
entire bodies and in the process takes days rather than hours.

But there is more. He reports only 2 kg per body. Now here is a person
charged with making up for a war time shortage (and noting that a soap
shortage means a meat shortage not otherwise reported beyond rationing) is
sent cadavers that were close to death from starvation or in fact died from
starvation. At one level this may explain why he failed to cut off the fatty
tissue first but on another level it was hell of a waste of fuel cooking
bodies for days.

But there is more. Noting that lye is added to fat to make soap, one gets a
greater weight of soap than fat. This gentleman manages to lose 2/3rds of the
fat in the process.

Beyond that, it is an interesting story.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52706 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:30:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sm[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:31:38 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:47:48 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Actually, the story with Dr. Spanner is quite odd.

>The “Institute for Contemporary History” sent me, at
>my request, material which indicates that the German
>authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
>the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
>which is created when corpses are subject to a “mazeration”
>process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
>thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

>This is why Spanner was let off the hook.

>This process is probably what the corpses in the well-known
>”soap factory” photos were subjected too (one can see a few
>large vats filled with disfigured corpses, which look as
>though they had been submerged in acid; this was discovered
>after the liberation, in Danzig, where Spanner was in charge).

>Odd story, indeed; it definitely could use some further
>investigation.

It is fascinating that appear to be dismissing the story with the involvement
of physical reality (even though you have no idea what mazeration is) and yet
you would still cling to the “confession.” After all, all confessions are
completely true and can not be doubted.

” SIGMUND MAZUR: I boiled the soap out of the bodies of women and men. The
process of
boiling alone took several days- from 3 to 7. During two manufacturing
processes, in which I
directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap were produced. The
amount of human fat
necessary for these two processes was 70 to 80 kilograms collected from some
40 bodies … I
used this human soap for my personal needs, for toilet and for laundering. ”
IMT VII – p. 598.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52713 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:01:07 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 12:34:23 -0400, [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:

>>So you think the German government authorized him to make soap out of
>>bodies and leather out of skin? And you think the German government said,
>>OK, why don’t you use the soap to do your laundry and wash your body. And
>>you don’t think that is insane.

>Yes, in fact, the German government did want Spanner to use cadavers
>in the making of soap on an experimental basis. That’s why he was given
>a supply of cadavers. Did you think he had Igor digging them up in the
>dead of night? I don’t know anything about lampshades in connection with
>Spanner–I suspect this is some sort of bleed-over from the human-skin
>artifacts found at Buchenwald. As to whether Spanner used the soap, I
>would suppose that he might have–the proof of the pudding, after all.
>No, I don’t see anything insane here. There was a need for soap, and
>Nazis were able to overcome common taboos about cadaver recycling for
>certain cadavers, including those of executed criminals such as were
>supplied to Spanner (without going into the recycling of hair, bone,
>etc. of gassed Jews and others, another matter entirely not connected
>with Spanner.)

Save of course that no one has been able to produce any of it. And this woman
did not bother to take a sample.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT

4/30/81:
The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
Rachel Patron, who
claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
Soviets during WWII (and
you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis). Ms.
Patron goes on to
state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to Poland
she found a shed full of
soap made from Jews. Isn’t it interesting how these Holocaust
survivors can remember
seeing things that never existed?

And since the story was invented in the previous war, don’t you think there
needs be a touch more evidence than a recycled story?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52719 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McFlea
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:22:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:23:06 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

McFlea, McFly, it does not matter.

This fool clams to be in his 50s and has the intellecutal age of a teenager.

Beyond that, he is a greate defend of what he is incapable of understandiug.

After all, he is a mongoloid idiot behind a keyboard.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52721 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:28:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 10:29:33 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:18 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>Marty Kelley wrote:

>>On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>>
>>> Marty Kelley wrote:
>>> >I agree–reading Tom Moran’s writing will DEFINITELY give you a clear idea
>>> >of the difference between logic and illogic. Though not necessarily the
>>> >impression that Mr. Moran may hope for. You might begin by looking at a
>>> >couple of documents that address the history of Mr. Moran’s intellectual
>>> >dishonesty (or simple denseness): “Tom Moran and the Menorah” and “Tom
>>> >Moran’s Lies about _Schindler’s List_”. They are archived at:
>>> >
>>> >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/>
>>>
>>> Okay Mr.iznogod, there you have your first dose from those who
>>> insist on all things Holocaust.
>>>
>>> Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
>>> Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
>>> referrence in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
>>> (responses to main articles) which they omit.
>>
>>Mr. Moran, you seem to be saying that I have misrepresented your claims
>>and comments in the two pieces that I cite. Since you have never
>>specifically responded to either FAQ, I would like to know what parts of
>>your lies about the menorah or _Schindler’s List_ you think I have
>>commented on incorrectly. Please be specific.

>Is this the part you refer to? The one you say is not “specific”?
>
>”Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
>Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
>reference in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
>(responses to main articles) which they omit.”

>Here I’ll summarize its specifics.

>It states that Nizkor files are not orderly, omit some material or
>have it way out of order. I don’t know about these particular
>”menorah” – “Schindler’s List” files, since I haven’t checked it out
>as of late. But most of the time the files on Moran omit or displace
>the motivating, lead article, the files being mostly miscombobulated
>pieces of threads, a file on a lead article starting off with a
>response.

Again, you are surprisingly mild in your critique.

Referring to Nizkor and organized in the same sentence is a misuse of the
English language.

And then of course its HTML talents are next to nonexistant. But there is
both a web master and mistress on the jub doing their best.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52732 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:21:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sptl9$p7q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4ssbgk$[email protected]> <4ssjbo$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:22:51 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 08:23 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

> The spiraling downfall of Matt Giwer continues. I crosspost this
> complete post over to alt.usenet.kooks with no additional comment.
> None is needed.

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>>[To Hilary Ostrov]
>>
>>># Dear Fatbroad,
>>
>>>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>>>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>>>was his lowest score.
>>
>>Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the reproductive organs.
>>
>>What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

It is good to see that you are interested in further advertising the complete
lack of physical evidence for your imagined evils.

Please continue.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52734 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:49:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 98
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <21JUL19960808[email protected]> <4suq4e[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:50:12 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 17:59:41 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax exempt
>>status and therefore such solicitation is criminal.

> Go on Mattie, cite the relevant laws. You may as well lose even more
>of your credibility (such as it is). Ken has infinitely more credibility than
>you do.

>> Or have you obtained tax exempt status?

> Watch Prince Myshkin blow smoke out of his arse!!!

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_
========
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Rock Opera
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 05:15:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 10:18:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:38:30 +0100, Jeffrey
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, OWEN KING
>writes

>>The Following is taken from a rock opera I have been working on for
>>almost a decade. This is the scene where Hitler introduces himself. If
>>anyone is interested in further postings or info please email me.
>>
>>HITLER:
>>(to himself)
>>
>> Government Is The Decadent Realization Of Man’s Pain
>> Those Who Control The Masses
>> Continue To Breed Their Rotting Strain
>> This Forces The Self, To Strike Out
>> In Anger, Yet To Even Realize This, Is To Place
>> Yourself In Danger.
>>
>> etc

>You’re too late chief, it’s been done.

>And now it’s Holocaust the musical….

Produced and directed by Mel Brooks no doubt.

After all, who else can get away with it?

=====

It’s the gassing, yes, yes, yes

Not the working, no. no, no

—

Eeney, meeney, miney, moe

A whiff of gas and off they go

—

Ho lo caust, yes, yes, yes

Not Ty phus, no, no, no

======

Goosestepping nazi women in leather. gelatinous masses of flesh, S&M,
the whips, the rifle butts, the dogs at the genitals. Everything needed
for a XXX rated porn flick. And right out of the Mel Brooks style
manual.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52735 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.censorship,alt.online-service,alt.online-service.compuserve,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Censorship by Pathway.com — Wimpy Mongoloids
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:58:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:59:22 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52735 alt.censorship:90902 alt.online-service:13619 alt.online-service.compuserve:7351 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1873

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:55:55 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

> ARTICLE FROM THE VANCOUVER SUN JULY 19, 1996 PAGE A8C
>
> Also reprinted in the TORONTO SUN – July 19, 1996 PG A6
>
> Copied from the Vancouver Sun Website – Mistakes and all!
>
>_ B.C. Internet provider is the largest Canadian site for racist material _

> Jeff Lee Vancouver Sun
>
> An international human rights group says a small Internet provider in B.C.’S
> Okanagan region has become the largest site in Canada for white supremacist
> and Holocaust-denial material.
>
> At least 12 groups promoting white supremacy and hate against minorities are
> using the Fairview Technology Centre in Oliver to promote their views, the
> Simon Wiesenthal Centre said Thursday.

> [A human rights group?!? SWC believes Jews are some sort of superhumans,
> though they have only lived through times of privilage — Vyshinsky]
>
> Fairview’s site includes two host web pages called Freedom Site and Skin-Net,
> which provide access to the pages of a dozen other similar groups. The main
> page of Skin-Net contains a large image of a Nazi brown shirt charging into
> battle against a backdrop of fire.
>
> The organizers of some of the web pages are connected to Ernst Zundel, the
> Toronto holocaust-denier, said Sol Littman, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre’s
> Canadian representative.
>
> Littman said his group is alarmed that so many white-supremacist groups are
> lodged under one roof on the Internet.
>
> “It has got more of these guys on it than we’ve seen anywhere else in
> Canada,” Littman said. “It is offensive. It is crude, it is Fascist and it
> mirrors the Strmer, the most infamous of Nazi newspapers.”
>
> [Der Sturmer, produced by Julius Streicher, and worthy of republishing]

> Littman wrote to Bernard Klatt, owner of Fairview, to tell him he didn’t have
> to provide service to such groups and that he may not be aware they are using
> his site.
>
> But Klatt said in an interview that he knows about the groups. Asked if he
> was concerned, he said: “Not yet, should I (be)?
>
> “I am aware they are there. I probably should go look at them.”
>
> Fairview acts as a local Internet provider to a number of legitimate Okanagan
> businesses and groups, including the Oliver Chronicle newspaper, Okanagan
> Cable TV and the Oliver Amateur Radio Club.
>
> Six groups, including the Heritage Front, the Euro-Canadian Defence League
> and the Canadian Patriot’s Network are hosted at the Freedom Site, which is
> run by Marc Lemire.
>
> The others, under Skin-Net, include such groups as White Power Skinheads,
> Berserk, New Order and Nordland. A preface page to the site warns the
> “racially weak-at-heart” not to go any further if they are offended.
>
> Last month, Lemire was removed from a Toronto Internet service after the
> owner received complaints about offending material.
>
> Ashok Calle, the owner of Toronto’s Pathway Communications, said he didn’t
> know Lemire had loaded Freedom Site on to his service until other clients
> started complaining.
>
> Calle, an Indo-Canadian, said he was offended by what he found at Freedom
> Site on his server and immediately removed Lemire’s access priveliges.

> [Mongoloid!]
>
> Canada has no anti-hate laws governing material on the Internet, but that
> doesn’t mean he should carry the material, Calle said.
>
> “It is not illegal to be verbally abusive. But that doesn’t make it right.
> Things like (Freedom Site) may not be illegal but it doesn’t make they right.
> It was something we don’t want on our server.”
>
> Lemire could not be reached for comment. [This is ofcourse a lie – Marc]
>
> Littman said the Simon Wiesenthal Centre couldn’t ignore the concentration of
> so many groups under one roof.
>
> “We found the longer you leave these groups unexposed, the longer they fester
> and the more they infect others and the only way to deal with them honestly
> and forcefully is to expose them to the light of truth.”
>
> Littman said he wants to see if Klatt will remove the groups from Fairview
> voluntarily before the centre takes any other action.

> [What action has SWC done other than having a big mongoloid mouth and deep
> pockets? — Vyshinsky]

It sounds like Nizkor’s version of free speech.

Perhaps Nizkor can host them as a gesture of good will.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52736 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:13:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:14:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:18:55 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># What I said, equally deficient in English fool, is that
># there is not one documented case of it ever having happened.

>Of WHAT ever having happened?

># NOT ONE VICTIM!

>Not one victim of WHAT?

>Your anger is understood – you sought to undermine the evidence
>for the sterilization program, by (correctly) claiming that
>castration by X-rays is not efficient; but you only supported
>the evidence, because a later document shows that the Nazis
>who ran the program reached the same conclusion!

>But have no fear. ZOG will remember your help and reward you
>generously. Hello, Ken! Please set up a condo for Giwer. With
>a T1 attached.

What anger.

Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by X-Rays by the Nazis.

Do you have a problem with that? Or do you have some names?

It is just one more example of zero physical evidence.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!news.clark.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:50:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 7:51:26 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 04:31:21 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> One of the pet hobby horses of the revisionazis around here is is
>”freedom of speech.” They not only demand it but ask for constant affirmations
>from others to their belief. Is does not matter, they say (and they are right) what
>the opinions are, there is a right to be heard. This includes endless complaining
>about their alleged suppression and the duty of all to support them.

> It’s too bad that they do not practice what they preach.

> Matt Giwer hates Nizkor. The reason for this hatred is obvious.
>Giwer is a practiced liar. His basic technique includes lying about what he has
>written. He does not regularly and with brazen ad hominem attacks. One of the
>reasons he is so often made to look like the amoral prevaricator that he is, is the
>existence of the Nizkor archives. They record his every word, his every twist, his
>every turn, his every desperate attempt to go off on a tangent. As a result he
>has, by his own admission, tried to curtail or end the Nizkor archives.

> His first tack was to claim that it was censored and the contents
>altered. He was challenged to show any posts that were either censored or
>altered. he could not.

> His second tack was to claim that certain of the contents were
>libellous. He was challenged to name the defamatory contents. he could not.

All of the above were of course done. We have been over this. Search
DejaNews for the details.

> His third attack was to claim that Nizkor was a “scam” illegally
>accepting donations. His charges were proven fraudulent as Giwer had not
>even done his homework. He had not the foggiest notion of what Canadian law
>required.

Are you saying that he has finally obtained tax exempt status? AG did the
research and found it could go to any tax exempt organization. But prior to
that the reason given for the second hand collection was that he did not have
that status. Has this changed?

> His fourth approach was to threaten lawsuits. First he proposed a
>class action suit, then serial actions for defamation. Finally, and apparently
>without bothering to even read the law, he claimed he was going to initiate a
>RICO action against Nizkor and all its contributors. His proposal was so
>ridiculous that it has become a running joke. Even Giwer now denies — dispite
>clear evidence to the contrary — that he ever threatened suit.

> Manouvers within the law having had no avail, Giwer decided to step
>outside it. In recent posts he demanded that Nizkor delete any reference to him.
> If they failed to comply, he threatened unspecified “penalties” compounding that
>clear threat with an admission that he was not referring to a lawsuit. This was
>coupled with an outrageous invasion of privacy coupled with a note that the
>information posted was “for any purpose whatsoever,”

How does it follow that I invaded anyone’s privacy when I posted the
information he gave to InterNIC? If he didn’t want anyone to know it he
should not have provided it.

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

a phony baloney charge
>that MacVay was harrassing his father (later proved false in all material respects),
>and a threat to “mobilize” half the Marine Corps to get MacVay.

Is there anyone you can report that “threat” to with a straight face?

> While his ranting might be dismissed as the ravings of a madman, one
>fact is clear. The purpose was to damage or restrict the freedom f expression of
>Nizkor. The shut it down because Giwer does not like what it stands for and
>what it says. This is exactly the behavior that the revionazis complain about.

> What has been their reaction? Who has stood up and fought for
>Nizkor’s right to express their views?

> The answer is simple. None.

What is Nizkor? Who is Nizkor? If it is a corporation, then at least it can
have the fiction of free speech. What is “nizkor” saying these days?

Rather it is a personal plaything of McVay who is out to use it for personal
benefit in some manner.

> There has been not a single remark, a single statement, a single
>posting, that noted that Giwer was violating every principal that they claim to hold
>so dear. Ehrlich606 (with whom I frequently disagree with but consider a
>gentleman) has said nothing. David Thomas (with whom I emphatically disagree
>but consider a gentleman) has said nothing. The rest of the CODOH crowd, who
>claim to be such keepers of the flame of free expression that they maintain a
>”thought crimes archive” not only have kept their silence but, naturally, they
>have not added this admitted attempt to stifle free speech to their “archive.” L’il
>Tommy Moran chortled over Giwer’s proposal for a frivolous legal action and
>asked for a piece of the action until it became a laughing stock. Although he
>has found time to lie about the activities of others, he has said not a word about
>Giwer. Lyin’ Al Baron, who incessant whining about how “the Jews” are after
>him has become a staple of a.r, is silent. The H*b*r synergy or Les Griswold or
>Marc Lemire? Don’t be silly.

And you really want someone to speak up for a name after that name has done
not one thing in support of the same thing for other people. And then of
course there is McVay’s support of Zundel’s free speech, any place but in
Canada of course. And all the crocadile tears over CODOH for good measure.

Besides, what do Freedom of Speech and Canada have in common?

> None have stood up. None have said a word. None have defended
>”free speech.” None have demonstrated that their attachment to “free speech”
>is anything more than special pleading so that some rather eccentric claims, often
>replete with blatent misrepresentation and venomous bigotry, sometimes so
>obviously fraudulent as to be laughable, can be published without opposition.

> As the Canadian poet wrote, it is a silence you almost can hear.

If silence has an echo, it must be named Nizkor.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chuckles old geezer (was: “Les…)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:28:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <4sq9p9$[email protected]> <4sr70g$f3[email protected]> <4st8h[email protected]> <4t0clm$l[email protected]> <4t0[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.politics:60368 alt.politics.white-power:36971 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26041 alt.discrimination:50902 alt.revisionism:52764

On 23 Jul 1996 10:53:55 GMT, [email protected] (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Chuck Ferree ([email protected]) wipes the oatmeal from his chin and writes:
>> Chuck Ferree wrote: doesn’t matter one iota, I’ll shoot Les’s ass
>> before he even gets his zipper zipped up. He knows it, I know it,
>> anyone with a little military time knows it. Chopped liver, Les,
>> chopped liver, pal.

>Calm down, old man, you’ll give yourself a stroke.

He has obviously already had one to be posting like this.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52767 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:52:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 7:53:05 PM PDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:

># So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
># response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.

>Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>[Documents on the Holocaust – Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
>NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi
>Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]

You might wish to check the validity of your source some day.

>—————————————————————
>One way or another — I will tell you quite openly — we must finish
>off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>Jew of Europe will have met his end….

For example, given the date, Germany had already declared war on the US. It
is unclear what future world war he is talking about.

>But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either, not in
>Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>the whole structure of the Reich…

And here the “liquidate them yourselves” is completely contrary to the usual
claims of the SS running the entire operation.

>The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
>have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
>[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
>everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
>poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
>measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
>connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
>with the Reich.

>

And of course these discussions, if they occurred, are completely contrary to
the usual form of the story.

When you review the validity of this source you might look into the audience
and such so you can get a better idea what this is supposed to be.

=====

Rather than add anything you have introduced something that doesn’t do any
good for the most common form of the story. It is quite strange that you
folks don’t have much interest in consistancy, or rather, that consistancy is
not a hallmark of the story.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer is over
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:40:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:41:08 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 07:10:25 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>Has Giwer been nominated for Kook of the Month?
>>How does one go about doing so?

>Mr. Giwer has been nominated for some special recognition.
>Knowing how much he craves attention, it was the very least I
>could do.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

And of course McVay is running Nizkor for personal benefit.

It makes the sadist in him feel good.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:03 PDT 1996
Article: 52779 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben Compensation Sought
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:25:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:26:34 AM PDT 1996
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On 14 Jul 1996 04:00:07 -0700, [email protected] (Nizkor) wrote:

>Archive/File: pub/orgs/german/farben.ig farben.010
>Last-Modified: 1995/06/21

Note the source of this article. ‘

WHAT is Nizkor that IT can post?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:25:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:26:52 PM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 09:48:38, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )] [Mon 22 Jul 96 >20:45][Tue 23 Jul 96 02:04][0]*>

> mnc> Rather the opposite. It is “boiling” off (or whatever but
> mnc> going from a liquid to a gas and thus requiring the addition of
> mnc> energy) and lowering the temperature of what remains. So it is
> mnc> rather it is heading towards ambient temperature, whatever that
> mnc> happens to be.

>Nope. I made the same error – that the gas would be at ambient and
>carry the heat of vaporization away from the liquid.

>Untrue. The gas would be at its boiling point. The liquid would be
>at or very near that as well. The warmer the liquid, the faster the
>outgassing until the cooling effect brought it to the brought it
>back down to the boiling point. Unless external heat is available
>(yes, Matt, there’s plenty for the Zyklon) the outgassing would drop
>to a much lower point.

>This is so easy to demonstrate that I was kicking myself. Any kettle
>works that way. Slight increases above the boiling point can happen
>momentarily. That’s what makes the boiling sound – bubbles of gas
>forming at the bottom and rising to the top – but that’s minscule.

>Take the kettle off the stove and the steam continues until the
>liquid cools down enough. Some continues to “outgas” but the heavy
>boiling stops.

>Must I continue?

Lets start with the actual mechanics of it. The stuff has remained liquid due
to being under pressure. So the first thing that happens is that the gas
pressure is released and all the contents are cooled.

Then we have evaporation from the surface. The vapor pressure component is
certainly cooling just like it did when the can was opened.

The question then resolves to the thermal conductivity of wood pulp as to
whether vapor pressure or boiling dominates the outgassing, or perhaps better
stated, when boiling takes over from vapor pressure as the dominant mechanism
of outgassing.

Although we blithely refer to its boiling point as room temperature, it is
rather warm for that. It is also a higher temperature than Europeans kept
things in winter in those days. So for large fractions of the year, boiling
may not even be a consideration.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!worldlinx.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!nntp.primenet.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!news.ecrc.de!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:53:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t2qun$5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:00:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> An interesting post by McVay. On the surface it appears to be
>honest statement, from a freedom lovers stance, but there are a few
>things that could use pointing out.
> Within his condemnation he singles out Ernst Zundel as an example
>of a “hate” site. Though there may be indeed racist pages out there,
>that would express the dictionary definition of “hate”, Zundel would
>not fit in as an example.
> Nizkor also carries links to oragnizations it endoreses, which we
>could point out have a “hate” air about them. The JDL for one, the
>ARA, and Jeruselem One. There are probably others, which I haven’t
>checked.
> Other than this, I commend McVay for his treatment here.

Again you let him off easy.

McVay is clearly a hypocrite. His works to avoid showing his hate which is
stronger than any he pretends to fight.

He is a sadist looking for people to hurt. He is into it very deeply. You
can read it in his every post.

It is because of people like him that the legends of the vampire, the wendigo,
and the werewolf started.

He is the kind of person the human race abhors.

May it rest in peace.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52788 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:15:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:16:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
>Krema I in Auschwitz
>[Quoted in “KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS”, p. 176]
>————————————————————-
> … The “disinfectors” were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
>Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
>hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
>inscription “Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
>to be opened by trained personnel only!”. The tins were filled to
>the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
>opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
>were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
>of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
>started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
>death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.

Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier used against vermin.

And of course the omni-present screaming for dramatic effect.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CNN live
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:34:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:35:58 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

This is all right off of the CNN Headline news feed at the bottom of the 6:00
am newshour.

=====

Spielberg has been awarded $1 million from some unnameed US agency.

But he has raised $40 million “mostly from his own money” “but he needs $20
million more” to “interview holocaust survivors” “to make it part of the
record.”

And this is all to “to make it an almost required social studies course” when
kids are graduated illiterate.

Your priorities in education may vary.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:53:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:54:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:01 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>
>>The Nazis also ran out of water?
>>
>>SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein, said that numerous
>>died from thirst.
>>
>>Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>>Panzer training school, about a mile away.

>”800 tons”? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to keep 6 or
>7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?

The usual librarian fantasy from Keren.

It is only surprising that he did not claim millions of tons of food.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52795 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:00:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31ebb96b.12403[email protected]> <31ef[email protected]> <4ssfu[email protected]> <31f2309d.29456[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:01:40 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:06:30 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> If I remember correctly SL played exactly once on HBO and did not even get the
>> Tuesday rerun.

>And it will be played on network TV soon, according to TV Guide, with only
>three commercial breaks.

A better deal the Lawrence of Arabia gets but not by much. Watch for the
ratings share.

>So what’s your point? Whether YOU liked it or not, whether YOU liked the
>special effects or not (and of course, you’re better able to judge than
>the professionals who do it for a living, right?) has no bearing on
>whether the film made money or not.

The point is that it was not much of a draw for HBO. I have seen one star, B
movies played more than that. Under Siege II is the most recent example.

However, the Academy Awards are NOT a measure of movie quality and never were
intended to be. After all, that talking pig was not released in a slow year
for movies. It was released in a year where Hollywood content was under
attack.

He got his Award because that same Hollywood could never bring itself to give
him an award for the kind of movie he is really good at. It is the Hollywood
pretension of being artists rather than entertainers that causes it all. It
is all ego.

Your adulation of Hollywood does not permit you to see the facts about
Hollywood.

Specific to the special effects, I can do better. It was very low budget.
After all, he was risking his own money on this. He is not stupid. Given his
normally heavy usage of IML, this was a joke.

>I would imagine you’re right that SL isn’t doing well in the rental
>department. It isn’t a film that really carries on TV (as I suspect the
>ratings for the network showing will be low as well). It needs the big
>screen.

Actually it is better on TV than in the theater as the movie throws away 50
years of technical improvements save for cinemascope. It even dirtied up the
print to make it like that. There is nothing “big” about the movie. It is
all small action of people up close and mainly talking.

I would not be surprised to find he considered throwing away cinemascope also
but found that not enough theaters were equipped to project it.

As to a movie that does NOT carry to a TV, that is any of the Star Wars series
or any of the Star Trek series, Jurassic Park and they are still doing quite
well. And they continue to do well in the network reruns even without
letterboxing as for Dune and Blade Runner.

>Now: the definition of a flop is a movie that costs more to make than in
>takes in.
>
>Please provide whatever documentation you have to support this.
>
>HINT: it’s already been posted here, and you’re wrong.

The point was, FLOP. I will agree that is an overstatement. Given the
relatively low budget it probably recovered its costs in theater showings.
That means is was technically not a flop.

But as a big money maker? Sorry, not even in the running. As for a moderate
money maker, not there either.

Remember, this is entertainment. There is no objective out there to have a
movie on all subjects. There is no rule to have Hollywood “memorialize”
everything. And it was not entertainment.

Of course there was quite a bit of Hollywood hype about the crowds and such
but that quickly died out as local media could find no theaters that were even
crowded for a showing much less lines and selling tickets several shows in
advance.

What you are missing is that there is an entirely new generation that has near
zero interest in WW II.

Fact of demographics, average life expectancy is 76 years or so. Ignoring the
bably boom and the boomlet, that puts the first cut median age at 38 years.
That means born after 1957. If they know or care about any war it is Vietnam.

Their curiosity about WW II and its events is near zero. So that did not
attract them.

So what was left to draw an audience? Entertainment value. There was nothing
entertaining about it.

Perhaps better described as, One man’s stuggle to maintain profit margins set
against the backdrop of WW II. (Remembering of course his wife’s statement.)
He is never in any real danger.

He has exactly one story telling element, personal growth. And that growth is
going from exploiter to caring about the exploitees, the source of his
profits. And I assure you, all the drama of that “growth” was exploited for
all that it was worth, i.e. not much.

You are invited to discuss what else there was in the movie for those not
enthralled the subject matter per se.

Perhaps you will learn something about storytelling in the process of the
exercise.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:37:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sv0rf$t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 9:38:09 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 07:05:14 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>>On 21 Jul 1996 06:29:25 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , [email protected]
>>>(Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Allen, these items photographed on the roof of L.1 are skinny. At
>a
>>>>> rough approximation, the left two items are twice as tall as they are
>>>>> wide. The right items is fainter and blurrier, and looks about four
>>>>> times as tall as wide, but it’s difficult to say for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I helped a friend move recently, and we used a lot of boxes, but I
>>>don’t
>>>>> recall seeing a single one that was taller than it was wide. Much
>less
>>>>> twice as tall. Such boxes would be awkward to move, difficult to
>pack,
>>>>> and even more difficult to unpack.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say these items were boxes of roofing material. One quick,
>simple
>>>>> question: why would boxes of roofing material be so tall?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here’s another one for Mr. Allen: The damp proofing material used in
>the
>>>>L.Kellers was bituminous felt (cf. _Technique_, p.202).
>>>>
>>>>According to the _Larouse Dictionary of Science and Technology_, p.112:
>>
>>>Larousse!
>>>>
>>>>bituminous felt (build) A manufactured material incorporating asbestos,
>>>>flax, or other fibres, and bitumen, generally about 1/8 in (3mm) thick.
>>>It
>>>>is produced in rolls, impervous to water, and is largely used for roof
>>>>coverings.
>>>>
>>>>So where are these _rolls_ of “roofing material,” Mr. Allen? I don’t
>see
>>>>_rolls_ of tar paper on the roof of L.Keller 1, Mr. Allen. Do you?
>>>>
>>
>>>I do.
>>
>>>This is utterly amazing. I have just consulted the photograph, on URL’s
>>>previously provided by Jamie. And do you know what I see? I see three
>>>large rolls of bituminous felt _standing on end_ on the roof of LK I,
>and
>>>moreover, I see what appears to be a _fourth_ roll lying perpendicular
>to
>>>the nearest one. Or perhaps it is a _wooden pallet_!
>>
>>>Of course, the photograph is none too clear, but I urge everyone to
>check
>>>it out.
>>
>> Given the quality of the photograph that is as good an explanation
>as any
>>other.
>>
>> What at first appears to be a shadow of the nearest object,
>clearly occupies
>>an area
>>on both the roof and the wall of the building such that it can not be a
>>shadow.
>>Something laying on its side is quite reasonable.
>>
>> Also if you look at the “non-detail” picture you will see it is
>from so far
>>away that
>>perspective can not explain the differing thickness. Rather it would
>appear
>>fortutious for the purpose of the picture that the application of it
>started
>>closest
>>to the building.
>>
>>

>Yes, and if they were rolls of bituminous felt that would explain the
>different thicknesses very easily. Moreover, they would be placed on end
>to avoid lying in the snow and also to facilitate movement. I, too, have
>seen roofing jobs in progress.

And if I remember the article correctly the rebar construction method was not
the favorite it is today as water would permeate the concrete and rust out the
rebar. The solution for this came some time after the war when the bars were
simply given a coating of plastic.

That would suggest why this roof had to be waterproofed given that it was flat
and certainly there would be some degree of standing water under the snow all
winter.

What I am still missing about this construction is that given the width and
working from the buildings I have seen with this construction, I would expect
serious support columns down the middle at least, not just the concrete weight
but the snow load.

At one point I thought they were going to discuss them but they quickly became
hollow with holes for the gas to come out and finally the devolved to
wiremesh.

And another point about the picture, there is a supposed drawing, little more
than an artist’s conception” of what the completely building would be like in
cross-section someplace on Nizkor. It shows bermed earth up against the walls
while this picture shows none. That would be a further indication that it was
under construction at the time of the photograph.

And given that no one knows what a “mass extermination” gas chamber would look
like, I still hold the characteristics of the building are most in line with
those of a bomb shelter as its secondary purpose.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:53:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31f0ccc5[email protected]> <4st[email protected]> <4stnga$bp[email protected]> <31f3cd41.[email protected]> <4t0tso[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:54:30 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:10 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>Moran from previous post.

>>> Whatever Mr.Green is proposing here, whether it be correct or
>>>incorrect, is irrelevant. Mr.green’s practice is to put these ‘Hah
>>>hah, what about this’ type of thing up for consideration and yet fails
>>>to show a relevance that was and has been solicited in this very
>>>thread.
>
>Mr.Green:

>>Green stands pat. Moran made a statement about the relation between HCN
>>and cyanide ions. He didn’t understand that in solution the two are
>>intimately connected. Moran was babbling about something he didn’t
>>understand.

>Moran:

> Still no relevance to the study. No relevance to show that any
>cyanide compounds found at Auschwitz today originated from HCN. No
>relevance to the “local binding” the report mentions, which itself
>doesn’t make any connection to anything to show the extremely minute
>amount of cyanide compounds originated from HCN.

> “Intimately connected” Mr.Green says? Now what?

> The only thing conclusive from the report is that they found
>cyanide compounds in subterrainian situations, in Prussian blue stains
>and that higher traces seemed to concentrate in highly localized
>conditions, to which the report did not offer any theory or reason.

I suggest the answer is very simply in the fumigation process. Large items
such as mattresses once fumigated took much longer to air out as people being
in contact with them meant being in contact with cyanide while sleeping. Very
bad.

So they were carried outside and propped up against the walls for hours to get
rid of it. That covers the huge amounts on both the inside and outside walls
of some of these buildings.

Mattresses are a good place to start but then go into winter clothing, thick
and up to the standards of Poland’s winters, and certainly needing extra
airing.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:02:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:03:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 16:57:42 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never
>>threatened a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.

> You sure did talk a lot about a RICO suit, including asking if anyone
>would be interested.

Is asking a threat? In what manner? Or are you as stupid as the attorneys
here?

You are very dumb.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moving right along
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:04:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:05:50 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:11:10 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing
># any place at any time can we move on with this conference?

>Does anyone remember that fellow from Iraq, who was interviewed
>(by CNN I think), right after the Gulf War ended?

>The guy kept screaming “we won! That’s it! We won!”.

>How pathetic. How sad and pathetic.

It is all on DejaNews. Get over it.

There is no need to rehash history. Get over it.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:10 PDT 1996
Article: 52805 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:35:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4shv1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:08:38 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:52:51 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Save the translation given is clearly an exception for the
>traveler, not
>> >> for the next door neighbor. Were I to bother to look it up, I would
>> >> expect to find it part of the hospitality due to strangers and this
>> >> being a statement that the Passover was not an exception.
>>
>> >Save that it was explicitly directed as a *RELIGIOUS* duty that may be
>> >partaken by the convert – or stranger to the religion who would wish to
>> >join. A stranger who simply passes thru would be shown hospitality, but
>> >would not partake of the religious component.
>>
>> Were that the case then the stranger could not be fed on
>Passover as it
>> was the only food that could be prepared on that day. As hospitality
>> meant food and shelter leaving the person unfed for a day is not nice.

>Obviously, Mr. Giwer has never been to a Passover seder, especially at my
>house (and thank goodness for THAT).

Why would not deny hospitality to a traveler? Why would not not use that as
an opportunity to attempt to convert me?

>Every seder I’ve been to has enough food for any and all “strangers” who
>might drop in. That’s part of the pleasure of Passover — making too much
>food.
>
>By the way… who SAYS it’s “the only food that can be prepared that day”?
>
>Mr. Giwer, the expert in Judaism?

Obviously rather more than you, if you are following the writtne rules.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:05:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4i[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80421 alt.revisionism:52813

On 23 Jul 96 11:06:24, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Mon 22 Jul 96 19:51][Tue 23 Jul 96 03:30][0]*>

> >> Matt Giwer wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The issue is that the “witnesses” were reporting it
> >>> as blue because of the German name for it Blausaure, blue
> >>> acid. It is clear from every available source that
> >>> the material available at Auschwitz had a wood pulp carrier
> >>> and was in no manner related to anything blue.

> >> Repetition doesn’t make things true, Matt.

> >> You’re simply sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your
> >> eyes and yelling “Not true!” – like a child.

> >> You lost this one too, Matt. Stop behaving like a child and
> >> prove you’re not an infantile mind like Moron and company.

> >> IOW:

> >> GROW UP, MATT!!

> mnc> As you know, I posted the Degesh publication describing the
> mnc> type used as a fumigant. You also know that you read that post.
> mnc> Therefore you know it was a wood pulp carrier.

> mnc> So what point are you trying to make?

>No – I don’t. You use a single document as “evidence” that nothing
>else is possible. Yet there are pictures with descriptions that
>contradict your conclusion. This is hardly rocket science!

>Repetition doesn’t make things true, Matt.

>You’re simply sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes
>and yelling “Not true!” – like a child.

>You lost this one too, Matt. Stop behaving like a child and prove
>you’re not an infantile mind like Moron and company.

>IOW:

>GROW UP, MATT!!

My friend, you should know that I know what you proposed against Dahlman and
that you would try to use them against me is like reading the game plan.

Rather simply you know that what I have posted is what stands. You also know,
with your expected integrity as an engineer, that you will not play games with
facts.

If you simply want to drop this, I will not mention it again.

If you wish to try to continue to make this personal to show you can “win”
fine but then I am not adverse to the game playing.

And I have tons of hours to clog this NG with responses to your claims.

It appears this has come down to an ego on ego. That is fine with me too.

I have nothing to lose. I have no ego in this. You are completely in error
thinking I do.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:23:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <01bb7873.b5d452I0$6fded3c6@default> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:25:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:48:01 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <01bb7873.b5d452I0$6fded3c6@default>, “Duncan Coons”
><[email protected]> writes:

>>
>>
>>
>>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote in article
>><[email protected]>…
>>
>>> There has been not a single remark, a single statement, a single
>>> posting, that noted that Giwer was violating every principal that they
>>claim to hold
>>> so dear. Ehrlich606 (with whom I frequently disagree with but consider
>>a
>>> gentleman) has said nothing. David Thomas (with whom I emphatically
>>disagree
>>> but consider a gentleman) has said nothing. The rest of the CODOH
>>crowd, who
>>> claim to be such keepers of the flame of free expression that they
>>maintain a
>>> “thought crimes archive” not only have kept their silence but,
>>naturally, they
>>> have not added this admitted attempt to stifle free speech to their
>>”archive.” L’il
>>> Tommy Moran chortled over Giwer’s proposal for a frivolous legal action
>>and
>>> asked for a piece of the action until it became a laughing stock.
>>Although he
>>> has found time to lie about the activities of others, he has said not a
>>word about
>>> Giwer. Lyin’ Al Baron, who incessant whining about how “the Jews” are
>>after
>>> him has become a staple of a.r, is silent. The H*b*r synergy or Les
>>Griswold or
>>> Marc Lemire? Don’t be silly.
>>>
>>> None have stood up. None have said a word. None have defended
>>> “free speech.” None have demonstrated that their attachment to “free
>>speech”
>>> is anything more than special pleading so that some rather eccentric
>>claims, often
>>> replete with blatent misrepresentation and venomous bigotry, sometimes
>>so
>>> obviously fraudulent as to be laughable, can be published without
>>opposition.
>>>
>>> As the Canadian poet wrote, it is a silence you almost can hear.
>>
>>
>>All this is rather silly. No one spoke up because no one took Giwer’s
>>threat of a law-suit seriously. Such a suit would not have the remotest
>>possibility of success, as you yourself (I believe) have pointed out.

>First of all, I have not read Yale’s eloquent remarks before now (I can
>imagine his plea to the judge the next time I get a ticket for
>jaywalking), and that is why I have been silent.

>>
>>Your analysis of the motives of at least some revisionists/deniers might
>>even be correct, and absent our ability to read minds we’ll never know;
>>but the incontrovertible truth remains that they are often subject to
>real
>>censorship, whereas their opponents are not.

>Now hold on a minute. I did not raise my voice about Matt’s threatened
>lawsuit because I thought it was hot air — only somewhat less gaseous
>than Gord’s threat of legal action that dominated the board a month or so
>ago. If I had had any hint that Matt meant any of this seriously I would
>have urged him to drop the matter.

>Anyone concerned with free
>>speech is therefore obliged to defend the rights of those whose
>views/lies
>>are subject to suppression, not those whose free-speech rights are secure
>>from interference. And in fact by defending the former we secure the
>>latter and, hopefully, make the principle universal.
>>
>>

>OK, if I have missed a beat somewhere in here I sincerely apologize. As I
>recall, Matt started talking up suit a week or so ago, and I understood
>the basis was to get others to stop threatening him. Then some guy called
>his Dad, and Matt blew his top. I can’t say I blame him.

>Look — obviously there are many core-people here who disagree about a lot
>of things. But I can’t think of anyone here — offhand — that I would
>wish ill. Let’s be realistic. We are adults who enjoy arguing about this
>stuff. We really should not be trying to hurt each other.

But you miss the point.

The purpose of the holohuggers is to hurt.

These are not civilized people. These are animals.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:12 PDT 1996
Article: 52833 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:33:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 8:34:17 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:26:18 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> Jamie — I looked at the picture and I saw what I saw. Actually, Mark
>> Van Alstine should get the credit for telling me what to look _for_.

>In other words, you have no idea what rolls of felt would be doing
>standing on end.

Because that is the way it is done. What do you expect? That they are rolled
right off the end of the roof? The stuff is heavy.

It is walked off of the roll while on end.

Have you really never seen the stuff applied?

>> Do you really believe the Holocaust depends on how one sees this
>> picture? I guess so.

>Strawman. What I wrote had nothing to do with “the Holocaust” — every
>bit of evidence I mentioned concerned only the homicidal use of L.1.

>Do I think that the homicidal use of L.1 depends on how one sees this
>picture? Turn it around: I think that how one sees this picture tells
>us what one thinks about the homicidal use of L.1.

You mean that you have never seen the stuff being applied and therefore see
homicidal use where there is none in sight.

>You have shown a consistent approach to evidence in which you leap to
>conclusions contrary to established historical fact. Your eagerness to
>believe that the dark spots are rolls of felt is just the latest example.

>In short, I believe that how one sees this picture of L.1 reveals what
>one thinks about L.1. And in this instance, your biases are very much
>showing. You have suddenly concluded that the spots are rolls of felt
>and that they have nothing to do with the “four wire mesh insertion
>columns” — which we have written record of, in an invoice for L.1,
>Krema III. Nor do they have anything to do with the photographic
>record, the dozens of testimonials, and so on. You’re plowing ahead,
>blinders on, tackling one piece of evidence at a time, content with the
>oddball explanations that are necessary to shoehorn them into your
>world-view.

Rather it is very in line with the aerial photos which have nothing whatsoever
to do with any claim of chimneys or anything of the sort. No one can look at
those pictures and see anything but huge, irregular patches of dark yet you
folks insist they are the same as what is in the picture under discussion.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:41:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52838 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:50:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <21JUL199608081023@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4sv92b$huv@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:51:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 06:50 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 22 Jul 1996 10:56:22 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps I should have posted your parents’ full address and phone
>>>number. After all, it too is publicly available if you know the right web
>>>site. Would it bother you if I did that? After all, it would not be my
>>>fault since I am only making available what others have already made
>>>available.
>>
>>> For any purpose whatsoever.
>>
>> That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were anything to
>>happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing you ever
>>do. I hope that is clear.

> It sounds to me like a death threat. The federal authorities
> considering extortion charges against you, Matty, probably won’t
> consider death threats highly in your favor.

Do you really think professionals are as stupid as you?

>> Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

> Uh huh. Tell it to the jury.

>> I have in mind revealing holohuggers for what they are to the media and you in
>>particular. That should set you terrorists back a bit.

> Please do. I’d be amused.

>> What should be a civilized discussion in a single newsgroup becomes the basis
>>for exactly the kind of terrorism holohuggers claim they risk but never
>>receive.

> Right. Didn’t this all begin when you posted Ken McVay’s address?

>> Your professed martyrdom is amusing but not believed in the least.

> Can you say “projection”?

> [tax law fantasies deleted]

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52844 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:39:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4ss8o8$n[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4t0[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:40:29 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:59:22 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 17:17:50 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>>>For the record:

>>> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
>>> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
>>> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
>>> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
>>> stopped spamming.
>>> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>>>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>>>flamewar.

>>
>> With your trivial credibility on the line, I would not admit
>> anything either.

>”Trivial credibility”? Just what is it that you’re smoking?

>> You were used.

>Liar.

>> You have no business or authority doing what you are claiming to do.

>Liar.

>> You need to be cut off at the knees.
>> Patience. It will happen.

>Oh goody, another threat to be saved for my eccentric and deranged file.
>You’re in good company with the rest of the ranters and droolers.

>Incidentally, Ken, you really should have copies of the full blown spam
>reports on your web site – the cancels themselves are quite boring.

>They have messageids: <[email protected]>
>and <[email protected]>
>–
>”I can’t stand this proliferation of paperwork. It’s useless to fight
>the forms. You’ve got to kill the people producing them.”
>– Vladimir Kabaidze, 64, General Director of Ivanovo Machine Building Works

And now we have a self styled, ego driven defender of Usenet having the
temerity to call anyone a liar.

Just where did you get your “superhero” complex?

What should we really call you? Usenetman?

Keep all of these in your file, nerfbrain.

There will be a time.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Complete reference list (1996/07/23)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:18:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:19:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52845 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26051

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:20:42 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

>>[email protected] (Anonymous) wrote:
>>
>>> Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust (CODOH)
>>
>>That’s http://www.codoh.com/ to those of us who can acronym.
>>
>>(The remainder, mostly neo-Nazi and skinhead sites, deleted to save
>>bandwidth.)
>>
>>Oh, and you forgot one important one:
>>
>>https://nizkor.org/

>Correction:

>http://www.anonymizer.com/https://nizkor.org/

>Prepend http://www.anonymizer.com/ to any web, ftp or gopher site that
>you don’t want them to have individual records on everything you access
>because of port 113 requests (ident.) Be sure that the title of the
>page includes [Anonymized.] It’s unreliable with sound or video.

>Nizkor is anal enough to maintain individualized ident logs.

Nizkor? No. McVay and co-conspirators are anal enough.

>May the road rise to meet you.
>May the wind be always at your back.
>May the sun shine warm upon your face,
>the rain fall soft upon your fields,
>and until we meet again,
>may God hold you in the palm of His hand.
>–****ATTENTION****–****ATTENTION****–****ATTENTION****–***ATTENTION***
>Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
>Please, report inappropriate use to [email protected]
>For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to [email protected]
>If you have any problems, address them to [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:10 PDT 1996
Article: 52854 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:47:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4ssdcq[email protected]> <4suq4e[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:48:19 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

># But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax
># exempt status and therefore such solicitation is criminal.

>This seems like a totally idiotic statement.

>Can someone who knows something about these matters confirm?

>It is clear that Giwer is going down the tubes.

Ask Alec Grynspan who was good enough to research the matter and found it only
applies to those have tax exempt status. It was previously stated that it was
being done in this manner because he did not have tax exempt status. I am
only going by what has been posted here.

If that is in error, then someone needs to correct those previous posts.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52861 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:51:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4shv1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4sm[email protected]> <2af[email protected]> <4sp9a[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 7:52:13 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 19:24:03 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 22 Jul 1996 05:16:18 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>:
>: >I posted a detailed analysis of the passage from Exodus. If there is
>: >an error in my analysis, please inform me of it. (Hint: “ezrach” does
>: >*not* mean the same thing as “Leichenkeller”.)

>

>Um… this is interesting, and will no doubt be discussed elsewhere–
>but can anybody figure out why Mr. Giwer posted it in this thread?

Since you have asked so politely, the following was included in the message I
replied to.

>Prince Myshkin ([email protected]) wrote:

I reserve the right to reply to insults in any manner I choose.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 13:30:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:59:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:00:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:33:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Fact: anything that moved was attacked and destroyed by
># Allied fighters.

>And the most amazing thing is, apparently, that they hit
>*only* food that was delivered to the inmates, is that
>what you’re claiming?

It is unclear how you can possibly get that from what I posted.

>If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
>Germans?

Your only “evidence” of that is one picture of prostitutes. Why can’t you do
better than that?

>Heck, maybe these “revisionists” are claiming that the
>ever-so-good Nazis were giving the inmates kosher food,
>and that the wicked Allies had smart bombs that hit
>only trucks and trains carrying kosher food, who knows.

Strawman creation was never your forte.

>And, don’t tell me – the Allied fighters also sucked out
>all the water from the river nearby, and that’s why the
>inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
>you’re claiming?

In fact they bombed the power plant that ran the water pumps for the
purification plant. Do you have any idea what river water was like before
people stopped dumping raw sewage into it? Or do you suggest they should have
used raw river water? (“Just suck around the turds … its better that way.”)

In fact from the looks of them, that might be what they did.

>Why was there no mass starvation among Allied POW’s? The
>death rate among them was rather low; 3.6 percent of the
>American and British POW’s died in Nazi captivity.

Did you fail to notice they were winning? That Germans were not destroying
their facilities? Do not bother, that was rhetorical.

>You know why, Giwer? Not because the Allies someone
>missed hitting the trucks which delivered the food for
>them; but because the Nazis didn’t place them in the
>”sub-human not worth wasting good food on” category.

Because there were very few German planes left and those that left the ground
did not have a soft landing.

>Do you get it, Giwer?

Certainly. You have not the slighest ability to think through much of
anything you are saying. You further have no concept of war or the conditions
of war. You fail to realize that EXACTLY the conditions that you report are
the objective of war, to speed surrender.

And as it is the camp surrendered early because of the conditions and solely
for the sake of the people in the camps.

It is difficult to see whether you are dealing from youthful idealism,
innocense or ignorance. It is like you have no concept whatsoever of what war
is like. I find it difficult to believe you are expressing it in honesty.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 13:30:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52883 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A SINCERE APOLOGY
Date: 24 Jul 1996 18:55:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on4-17.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:55:27 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

I feel that I must apologize for my dyslexic rantings for the past few days. As
many of you know, I am a diagnosed schizophrenic with paranoid tendencies. I
usually take about 50 mg. of Thorazine for this. Unfortunately, my prescription
ran out while I was busy awaiting the Women’s Field Hockey Olympic Trials on
T.V (those butch women in their short skirts drive me wild and are
the only things that can counteract the recent paucity of my libido).

I am now back on my medication.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 14:52:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:46:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t43[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:47:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 00:40:20 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) writes:

>>
>>On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>wrote:
>>
>>>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>># So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
>>># response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.
>>
>>>Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>>>[Documents on the Holocaust – Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A.
>Margaliot,
>>>NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi
>>>Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>>>Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
>>
>> You might wish to check the validity of your source some day.
>>
>>>—————————————————————
>>>One way or another — I will tell you quite openly — we must finish
>>>off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>>>again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>>>shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>>>Jew of Europe will have met his end….
>>
>> For example, given the date, Germany had already declared war on
>the US. It
>>is unclear what future world war he is talking about.

>This is a reference to a speech Hitler gave in 1939, I believe. The
>problem is that how can you use a public utterance as proof of a secret
>extermination program? But it must be said that Frank was referring to
>Hitler’s speech, and according to Irving’s latest book on Goebbels,
>Goebbels referenced the speech several times in his Diary to justify to
>himself measures that he was pushing through.

>>
>>>But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>>>be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>>>why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either, not in
>>>Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>>>Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>>>considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>>>find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>>>the whole structure of the Reich…
>>
>> And here the “liquidate them yourselves” is completely contrary to
>the usual
>>claims of the SS running the entire operation.

>Here Frank has in mind the bureaucrats who are dumping trainloads of Jews
>in the Eastern territories and they are not wanted there. Irving provides
>detailed evidence of their either being put to work or being shot.

>>
>>>The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
>>>have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
>>>[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
>>>everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
>>>poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
>>>measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
>>>connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
>>>with the Reich.
>>
>>>
>>
>> And of course these discussions, if they occurred, are completely
>contrary
>>to
>>the usual form of the story.
>>
>> When you review the validity of this source you might look into
>the audience
>>and such so you can get a better idea what this is supposed to be.
>>
>>=====
>>
>> Rather than add anything you have introduced something that
>doesn’t do any
>>good for the most common form of the story. It is quite strange that you
>>folks don’t have much interest in consistancy, or rather, that
>consistancy is
>>not a hallmark of the story.
>>
>This talk — which was transcribed into Frank’s Diary and which was turned
>over to the IMT — is keyed to minutes of a meeting held, I believe, early
>in 1942. Of course, by this time, there had been promiscuous shootings
>going on for years. After the invasion of Russia, six months before, this
>violence had gotten worse, usually by the native nationalists who
>considered the Jews Soviet collaborators. But, Western Jews, especially
>German Jews, had been shot at the end of their rail journeys as early as
>October, 1941, again, usually with participation of locals.

>This is the context in which the Wannsee Conference was held. My take on
>the situation is that extermination was not set in stone at this point.
>However, by the summer of 1942, we know that 3,500 Jews incapable of work
>from Germany, Austria, and Slovakia were shot in Minsk. So we know by
>then that — at the very least — Jews not capable of work were being
>murdered as regular policy.

Belief is of interest but NKVD “facts” always vary with reality.

We have nothing but those folks for evidence.

Who dug it up? Where are the bones?

No where.

I don’t mean to play nasty about this but damn when are we going to get
physical evidence of any of this?

We have been over this here many times. There simplly is no physical evidence
to support this nonsense.

Just where the hell are those 31 million untracable civlilians from WW II and
why in the hell should we suppose 10% of them were shot or gassed or whatever?

I do not see what point you are trying to make here. There is simply no
physical evidence to support the claims. It is as simple as that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 14:52:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:10:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4si[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:11:23 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 10:20:55 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> And remember we have even been informed that the tearing agent was
>>>removed. Of course those who said it failed to note the date was years
>>>earlier.
>>
>> Wrong AGAIN, Matt. The indicator was removed in 1944. The Kremas
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>commenced operation in 1943. Tell us again about “years earlier?”

>Don’t you mean that the lachrymogen was removed?

1941 actually. It cut costs and they used all the detectors everyone makes
such an issue of.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 18:19:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52921 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Ken McVay
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:36:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sna73[email protected]> <4sse2o[email protected]> <4ssh4o[email protected]> <4stekh[email protected]> <4sv7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 12:37:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:04:32 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> The caller identified himself as Ken McVay. Is that good enough for
>>you?

> It’s not enough for me – it could be someone playing a prank.

> After all, if I make a phone call and claim to be Bart Simpson, that
>doesn’t make me Bart, now does it?

But it turns out to be a fellow holohugger. They are all alike.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 18:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 26083 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: McVay, hooker and company
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:24:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4r[email protected]> <4skl[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:25:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37028 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26083 alt.revisionism:52940 alt.skinheads:32736

On 23 Jul 1996 06:23 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison writes…
>>[email protected] wrote:

>>> How about the sound of a hypocrite talking to himself?
>>
>>Is that a koan?

> I knew a rabbi named Zen Cohen. He used to say the strangest things…

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> [Sorry, I’ve been hanging out with Marty too much lately] :/

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:53 PDT 1996
Article: 52952 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lest we forget the evil
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:31:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:32:50 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

“They invented the following method of murder: Several Soviet prisoners would
be forced to climb a tree and others had to saw it down. The prisoners would
fall together with the tree and be killed.”

IMT VII – p. 582.

We are not informed what was done with the trees.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:54 PDT 1996
Article: 52954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:16:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:17:42 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 11:13:06, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[The Score -- posting stats, June 22-July 19] [Tue 23 Jul 96 01:55][Tue 23 >Jul 96 06:06][0]*>

> >>> You are certifiable.

> >> A libelous comment, Matt. You shou learn of the subtleties
> >> between libel and your own definition of same.

> mnc> So is most of USENET. You know that. What is your issue?

>No – expressing an opinion is not.

>Expressing something as fact, particularly after other libelous
>post, is lawyer-food.

> mnc> EVERYTHING is said in the heat of the moment and instantly
> mnc> regreted but the regret is not posted as that will be used
> mnc> against the person who posts it and, since everyone knows it, it
> mnc> is a waste of bandwidth to post regrets.

> mnc> Want to try again?

>Then prove that that specific post was part of the dozens of “heat
>of the moment” posts.

>Combined with threats to harass, libels of criminal activity…

>Matt, at this rate, you’ll end up trying to send messages via smoke
>signals – because the judgement will give half the NG’s participants
>a piece of everything you own!

And of course you would hold the libels committed against me, and the actual
in fact harrassment of my family are in a different category.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:55 PDT 1996
Article: 52961 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:48:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:50:00 PM PDT 1996

On 24 Jul 1996 12:58:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 24 Jul 1996 03:57:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>
>> > When did potatoes become part of a Seder?
>
>> They were named as part of Seder, idiot. Read the find thread.

> Whoever said so (assuming you are not lying again) was incorrect.
>Potatoes are not part of the ritual meal. Period.

That is what I said. And look at all the wasted bandwidth over it. Was there
a point to it all?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:25 PDT 1996
Article: 52991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:09:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 9:10:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:38:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier used against vermin.
>>
>ERCO is not wood-pulp.

>But – you knew that.

And you also know that wood pulp was the carrier in the formulation used for
vermin. What is your problem with that?

I have reposted both documents for you. You have presumably read them. They
can not be changed because you want them to read differently.

If you wish to post documentation as the to application of the type using ERCO
as a carrier (and what ERCO is) you are free to do so.

Until then, the documents stand.

Want to get back to the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:04:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sptl9$p7q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4ssbgk$[email protected]> <4ssjbo[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:05:24 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 12:02:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[No historian has ever] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:38][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> mnc> Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the
> mnc> reproductive organs.

> mnc> What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

>Not one person ever cured of Smallpox by leeches.

>Pull your fingers from your ears, Matt.

It is one more example of the complete lack of physical evidence for this mass
extermination.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:06:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sm[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:07:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 19:32:32 -0400, [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>>The “Institute for Contemporary History” sent me, at
>>my request, material which indicates that the German
>>authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
>>the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
>>which is created when corpses are subject to a “mazeration”
>>process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
>>thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

>OK, I have to admit I don’t get it. Why was Spanner being
>supplied with beheaded corpses? Was there some reason
>beside the bruited soap experiments to, er, mazerate all
>this tissue?

Obviously someone really believed the guillotine story to pass this one on to
holohugger mythology.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53002 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:16:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:18:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 11:59:04, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[McFlea] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:22][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> mnc> Beyond that, he is a greate defend of what he is incapable
> mnc> of understandiug.

> mnc> After all, he is a mongoloid idiot behind a keyboard.

>Hmmmm! So you admit losing to him as well!

Your continued harping upon an admission it at best amusing.

Are you ready to get back to actually discussing the terrible effects of
gassing such as the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing that it the effect
of cyanide?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:28 PDT 1996
Article: 53004 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:53:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4s59e1$l9f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4t2[email protected]> <6bc[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 12:54:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 17:30 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?
>>
>> Have you missed the people who have admitted I control this NG?
>>
>> If so, why have you missed it?
>>
>> You ain’t jack shit.

> There is a strong philosophy of free and open speech here. But I
> predict the day is coming very soon where Matt Giwer will simply
> disappear from alt.revisionism forever. Very soon.

That is neither the first time it has been predicted nor the first time you
have predicted it.

Or shall I take this as a threat under the laws of Canada?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53007 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:19:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 1:21:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Just as a matter of general interest, there was an amusing post by an Alec
Grynspan, obviously not the same Alec Grynspan who is later mentioned.

So what happened is one day I got this rather violent complaint to me as a
copy of what had been sent to my service provider. I was being accused of
posting and a.r message to some very inappropriate conferences.

Of course I challenged it. He responded with a list of messages, save that
the one just before I did the “evil deed” was by Alec Grynspan. That message
however had been cancelled so he could not provide a copy of it. I was able
to provide him with a copy of that message indicating that SOME OTHER Alec
Grynspan was the one who originally caused the posts to incorrect conferences.

Now I have no idea if there is any connection but an Alec Grynspan here
commented that I had “fallen for” that trick.

Perhaps folks should consider whether or not I let it happen and kept the
message just so the blame would be applied properly.

But then it is just one more example of creating harrassment of me by
attempting to bring my service provider and people from other NGs into it
innocently.

But of course, despite all of the references to email, none of this is
organized or coordinated. It just continues to happen spontaneously. It is
qute amazing what happens without organization.

They are not a hate group. They all act as individual haters. But of course
it is still harrassment and they are all part of it.

Right Alec? Not a problem with Alec Grynspan answers. There are many
innocent and only one guilty one.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is over
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:32:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4svhci[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:33:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 15:58:48 GMT, [email protected](Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) writes:
>>
>>
>> The gassing is now in the record of ancient history. It has been
>completely>discredited. It is no longer of interest to any civilized
>discussion of what>happened during WW II.
>>
>> There is no longer any reason to even mention a holocaust as
>there was none of Jews>that is of interest.
>>
>> Whatever it was, its time has come and gone. It has no further
>interest in civilized>discussion.
>>
>> Only the holohuggers will attempt to continue this nonsense.
>>
>> And the holohuggers are all very stupid.

>Matt, if it’s not of interest to anyone of intellegence, why are YOU
>posting about ad nauseum? Your lack of human campassion is
>astonishing.

It is good to see you are faking being shocked.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:30 PDT 1996
Article: 53011 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:43:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <88f[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:44:29 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 22:13:00 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> However, in smoking out the believers they have to face they are
> part of a genocidal religion.

>All that Mr. Giwer has established is that the Hebrew Scriptures
>mention events that Mr. Giwer characterizes as genocide. These
>allegedly genocidal events occured several millenia B.C. and are
>corroborated by no other source. Yet, Mr. Giwer is pleased to
>characterize the Jewish religion as a “genocidal religion.”

Should I disagree with the believers on their own subject?

>On the other hand, Mr. Giwer is pleased to characterize the Holocaust
>as old news that the victims ought to have gotten over by now!

If they would stop dwelling on it people will stop remembering being gassed
six times and the like. Creating memories like that certainly can not be
considered a healthy thing to do.

>But, as everyone here knows, even Mr. Giwer does not believe this
>line! He only posts it because he knows it is provocative and he
>hopes it will provoke an angry reaction to feed his sick needs.

And no one else in this conference posts anything provocative. Are you sure
you know what conference you are in?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:31 PDT 1996
Article: 53013 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days…
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:51:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:52:39 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 11:52:57 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>I know, I know! There’s the AG’s office in the state of residence of
>>the person committing extortion, and there’s the FBI. And there’s
>>also the Department of State, come to think of it.

>Close – try the United States Attorney and the FBI (Tampa), rather than
>the State AG. They seem to take a very dim view of international extortion.

>..which reminds me… I’m flying south on business tomorrow, to speak with
>some folks who find Mr. Giwer’s articles of more than casual interest, and
>may not have access for a few days – I’ll catch up on my email from the
>hotel, once I get settled.

Golly. And I am worth such an expense. A telephone will not do.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53016 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:15:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t25l[email protected]> <23J[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:16:31 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 22:05:42 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <4[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>says…

>>#Not quite correct.. he did, after all, manage to use the word
>>#”Mongoloid” twice in the same week. Surely that’s worth something?

>>The real scarey part is I think I am starting to understand Giwerish.

>Pre-, Full-, or Post-Hootch?

>PS – I may have been incorrect – “Mongoloid” may have been employed thrice.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Alec, another opinion if you would. This use of this particular mantra has
been described by holohuggers having resulted from a mutual agreement arrived
at by email. Under Canadian law, does that comprise a conspiracy?

We can go into the purpose they gave for adopting it later.

=====

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53017 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:12:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:42:51 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> You are invited to discuss what else there was in the movie for
>>those not
>> enthralled the subject matter per se.

>Well, thank you for the kind invitation, Mr. Giwer.
>
>There were quite a number of things to hold the audience’s interest:
>
>A remarkable acting job by Ralph Fiennes.
>
>A remarkable acting job by Liam Neeson.
>
>An excellent acting job by Ben Kingsley.

And what did you find remarkable to excellent about them? The range of
emotion? The difficulty of the roles?

>A moving story about what does (or does not) motivate someone to care and
>get involved.

You mean money? Or just what did you see?

>A hauntingly beautiful musical score.

Hum a few bars.

>There’s lots more, but it’s late and I have better things to do than
>debate these kinds of subjective things. _You_ may not think the special
>effects were anything special. _I_ don’t believe you are qualified to
>comment.

As I said, I can do better with Photoshop. That is more than clear enough.

=====

You say the above was good but you fail to describe what was good about them.
Was it the range of emotion? What it the characterization? What was
“difficult” about the roles that made the performances noteworthy?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:33 PDT 1996
Article: 53029 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:13:59 GMT
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:46:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 20:09:10 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> >”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt
>Giwer)
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds very familiar, fatbroad.
>
>Then why do you not take your own advice, Mr. Giwer and put up or shut up.
>
>A statement like “Ken McVay harassed my parents” is crying out for proof
>– especially when Andrew Mathis has already confessed and apologised for
>calling your parents.
>
>(Although there is *no* evidence of _harassment_ in Mr. Mathis’ apology,
>nor in his detailed description of his phone call.)

Sure. I get the second hand message that McVay knows their phone number and
therefore address.

>So where is your apology to Mr. McVay?
>
>Where is your apology to me?
>
>And honestly, Mr. Giwer, don’t you think demeaning comments like
>”fatbroad” only make you look even more childish and petulant? Why make
>yourself a laughing stock? Not getting enough at home?

Yes, fatbroad, a matter I corrected the instant I received the email. Now of
one of the McVays has an issue with the accusation he knows who to deal with.
It is certainly not me.

But at this point I do not know what the truth might be. I do know that a Ken
McVay called them. What this Mathis character has to do with it, I have no
idea other than what was in the message, if it was from his at all.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:34 PDT 1996
Article: 53031 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:48:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:27:52 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
>## Germans?

># Your only “evidence” of that is one picture of prostitutes.

>Not prostitutes, but women who were employed by the SS.

When I first asked about this there was a claim there were women in the SS.
It was explained they were hired low life women from the town and one of the
descriptions that was given of them was prostitute.

Simply because you do not like the obvious sex for food explanation for their
condition does not mean the original explanation of where those women came
>from has ceased to exist.

>Name one SS-man or one SS-woman in the camps who starved
>to death. One.

If that is to be the game, name some inmates who did.

>## And, don’t tell me – the Allied fighters also sucked out
>## all the water from the river nearby, and that’s why the
>## inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
>## you’re claiming?

># In fact they bombed the power plant that ran the water
># pumps for the purification plant.

>You really think these lame-brained excuses are convincing
>anyone but nazi-boys?

It happened. Is there some reason you think that a perjorative response will
change that?

>The Brits set up, very quickly, a system to bring water
>into the camp. They used only equipment they found there.

Closer to the truth is the Encyclopaedia Judaica, which maintains that 37,000
perished in the
camp before the British takeover, and another 14,000 afterwards.

“Bergen-Belsen,” Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971), vol. 4, pp. 610-612

It is not clear from my reference what these additional 14,000 died of while
in the custody of the British.

But rather than going over how quickly was quickly, while the Brits were
working they were not being bombed and straffed. That sort of thing does
strongly impact ones work ethic.

>Are you seriously claiming that, for such a long time,
>the Nazis couldn’t have water brought to the camp?

However in this case “long time” means less than a week as that is the
survival time without water at the outside. If people are not in good shape
or ill, two or three days can do it.

>The Brits used the river’s water. They were fit to drink.

And who told you that one? Or did you make it up yourself?

>The question remains, why, in *all* these camps, not just
>Belsen, did so many people die, while either Germans nor
>other prisoners – such as Allied POW’s – didn’t die?

You mean the encyclopedia got the 14,000 wrong? Were the Brits that bad?

>Even Kramer didn’t resort to such insane excuses. He said
>that he was not allowed to get food from the Whermacht
>barracks.

Was the Wehrmacht to starve? Or did he have authority to take it? But where
were those 800 tonnes of food that the British took?

BTW: It appears there are other people who agree that conditions deteriorated
rapidly towards the end of the war.

=====

Until late 1944 conditions were generally better than in other concentration
camps. Marika Frank Abrams, a Jewish woman from Hungary, was transferred from
Auschwitz in 1944. Years later she recalled her arrival at Belsen: “… We
were each given two blankets and a dish. There was running water and latrines.
We were given food that was edible and didn’t have to stand for hours to be
counted. The conditions were so superior to Auschwitz we felt we were
practically in a sanitarium.”

Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: NAL, 1981), p. 190

=====

During the final months of the war, tens of thousands of Jews were evacuated
to Belsen from Auschwitz and other eastern camps threatened by the advancing
Soviets. Belsen became severely overcrowded as the number of inmates increased
>from 15,000 in December 1944 to 42,000 at the beginning of March 1945, and
more than 50,000 a month later.

Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 4, p. 610; Gedenkbuch: Opfer der Verfolgung der
Juden unter der nationsozialistischen Gewaltherrschaft (Koblenz: Bundesarchiv,
1986; 2 vols.), pp.1761-1762.

You apparently have a very limited knowledge of the subject and of the
conditions of war in general and this war in particular.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53034 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:44:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:06:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?

>Matt, we ALL know your rules, you’ve stated them often enough.
>
>IN case you need a reminder:
>
>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)
>
>And in case anyone else has forgotten:

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer.matt/

>Sara

>–
>”A perfect writer would make words sing, dance, kiss, do the male and female act, bear children, weep, bleed, rage, steal, stab, fire cannon, steer ships, sack cities, charge with cavalry or infantry, or do any thing, that man or woman or the natural powers can do.”
> Walt Whitman

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53035 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:53:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by
># X-Rays by the Nazis.

>Just for the record, how do you know this? I will try
>and consult some sources to see if, indeed, no such
>person was found.

>Considering that the experiments took place in Auschwitz,
>it is very possible that no one was found; I don’t know,
>and I will try to find out.

Perhaps you will find the X-Ray machine at least?

>Moreover, the Nazi doctors arrived at the conclusion
>that the method didn’t work that well, and that surgical
>castration is better.

None of that kind found either.

>But this is not the major issue; the major issue is that
>a leading Nazi official, Oberfuehrer Victor Brack, asked
>that not *all* Jews be killed, but that 20-30 percent will
>be spared and used for slave labor, after being sterilized.

So where are they among the survivors?

>This is the main point, and it’s a document, which,
>apparently, “revisionists” now acknowledge to fall within
>the realm of physical evidence.

I speak only for myself. I am still looking for real physical evidence that
it actually happened.

># It is just one more example of zero physical evidence.

>Just as “revisionists” can provide no physical evidence
>that Dresden was ever bombed.

Your adamant pretense not to be able to see the difference does not mean there
is no difference.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53039 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:49:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 24 Jul 1996 21:48:49 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:

>in response to comments by Ehrlich606, here:
>>>>
>>>This talk — which was transcribed into Frank’s Diary and which was
>turned
>>>over to the IMT — is keyed to minutes of a meeting held, I believe,
>early
>>>in 1942. Of course, by this time, there had been promiscuous shootings
>>>going on for years. After the invasion of Russia, six months before,
>this
>>>violence had gotten worse, usually by the native nationalists who
>>>considered the Jews Soviet collaborators. But, Western Jews, especially
>>>German Jews, had been shot at the end of their rail journeys as early as
>>>October, 1941, again, usually with participation of locals.
>>
>>>This is the context in which the Wannsee Conference was held. My take
>on
>>>the situation is that extermination was not set in stone at this point.
>>>However, by the summer of 1942, we know that 3,500 Jews incapable of
>work
>>>from Germany, Austria, and Slovakia were shot in Minsk. So we know by
>>>then that — at the very least — Jews not capable of work were being
>>>murdered as regular policy.
>>
>> Belief is of interest but NKVD “facts” always vary with reality.
>>
>> We have nothing but those folks for evidence.
>>
>> Who dug it up? Where are the bones?
>>
>> No where.
>>
>> I don’t mean to play nasty about this but damn when are we going
>to get
>>physical evidence of any of this?
>>
>> We have been over this here many times. There simplly is no
>physical
>>evidence
>>to support this nonsense.
>>
>> Just where the hell are those 31 million untracable civlilians
>from WW II
>>and
>>why in the hell should we suppose 10% of them were shot or gassed or
>>whatever?
>>
>>
>> I do not see what point you are trying to make here. There is
>simply no
>>physical evidence to support the claims. It is as simple as that.
>>
>>
>As far as events go in the Soviet Union, it is true that we are forced to
>rely on materials, most of which passed through Soviet custody. As you
>know, I think some of this is phony. But I don’t dismiss it all.

My position is different. As we know from the Katyn Woods case that they were
willing to falsify evidence then all of their evidence bears a heavier burden
to be accepted. The only question, were you lying then or are you lying now?

I see no reason to accept “some” as true when clearly all is suspect.

Obviously there is a question of how much could be produced in the time frame
but to deal with that we need to know of size of the NKVD staff during the war
that certainly continued. Russia was never much into demobilization.

>Reasons: First of all, I don’t dispute the six million figure. The most
>salient aspect of my skepticism (at least as far as conventionalists are
>concerned) is my skepticism over the scope of homicidal gassings. By the
>way, this is not unnatural, insofar as it is well recognized that the
>gassing stories are hard to believe:

>The deniers consciously fix on those aspects of the Holocaust that
>are hardest to believe [i.e., gassings, six million] precisely because
>they demand the greatest leap of the imagination. Lipstadt,
>*Denying the Holocaust, p. 90.

But the problem with six million is of course that it was “known” months after
the end of the war and has never changed in any significant amount regardless
of all of the individual reductions. (I have been over the “no historian
ever” routine elsewhere.) I really have a problem with a number that appears
with ZERO basis and no matter what happens in the intervening 50 years, never
changes.

To me that is clearly working towards the conclusion and not addressing the
problem. The data must be tortured until it totals six million and then given
a reprieve. Each torture is different but the number does not change.

If it had even gone up it would have greater credibility than it presently
has.

If for a while there had been a 7, 8, or 9 million number (or in reverse 5, 4
or 3 million) there would have at least been the pretense of legitimate
searching. But the number has been rock solid since it was pulled out of the
air on the basis of what “historians” now say is dead wrong.

Things just do not work that way. If we could track the total going up, down
and sideways then fine. That would indicate a legitimate search for the
correct number. But that is not what we see.

>On the other hand, I don’t find the shooting stories hard to believe, and
>there is tons of evidence — including mass graves — to support it,
>unlike the gassings, where the evidence is much more sparse. The reason
>you don’t hear about the mass graves is because most of them are
>relatively small (a few thousand or less) and because there were already
>many mass graves in the Soviet Union before the Germans invaded. How many
>recall the news story from the Spring of 1989 in the New York Times about
>the discovery of a chain of mass graves that apparently contained about
>300,000 corpses from the collectivization era? I didn’t think so. And
>this grave doesn’t have a name burned into our consciousness, and probably
>never will.

Except of course mass graves do not produce evidence of either religion or
birth mother. So what? How many mass graves do you want?

The chronicellors of Attila reported that he made a mountain of skulls of
proto-Hungarians that he horse were able to ride up and down. Such a mountain
would like have constituted the entire population of the civilized world at
the time if it had actually existed. But of course the skulls, much less the
rest of the bones have never been found.

But in the Russian case, now that their archives are open (for sale actually)
things can be found, places, burial locations and the evidence discovered.

On the other hand, the captured German files, with presumably an equal
interest in saying “never issue a digging (building) permit here” have no such
information.

>As per the shootings in Minsk, I tend to go along with David Irving in
>accepting this evidence. It *triangulates* with too much for me to reject
>it. Nor do I have any agenda for rejecting it. OTOH, if you want to
>reject it because of the lack of physical evidence, I can see your point,
>but I still disagree.

I find too many revisionists willing to only go half way in hopes of avoiding
the ultimate tag/perjorative/blood libel of Nazi, neo-nazi and/ro anti-semite,
which gets applied anyway so I do not see the point.

If a person is going to get that blood libel for speaking what they believe
then I see no reason to hold back in the least.

I see triangulation as capitulation to expectation to avoid the blood libel.
I see it as avoidance in hope of having a few ideas considered but I have yet
to see one such approach work.

How far has it gotten Irving? Did his drawing back from the obvious get his
book published in the US? What benefit accrued to that approach?

In the simplest terms it is, sheep or lamb. There is no benefit to recusion
>from what you will be called no matter what you say. It is not as though the
holohuggers are engaged in an honest exchange.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:37 PDT 1996
Article: 53051 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:53:46 GMT
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:38:40 GMT, [email protected] (John Nagle) wrote:

>[email protected](Annie Alpert) writes:
>>I appreciate your comments, Ken and agree with them. I’ve had
>>experience with SW over the years and have been disappointed by their
>>attempts to prevent open discussion on the internet. I may not agree
>>with everything posted on the internet, but I support any idiot’s right
>>to expose their ignorance and bigotry for all to see. I also reserve
>>the right to offer the facts in response to lies and half-truths.
>>Attempting the squelch open discussion will only make martyrs of those
>>who are squelched.

> The basic problem the Simon Weisenthal organization has is that
>all the real Nazis are either dead or geriatric by now. The
>mission of the Weisenthal organization is over. But the organization
>lives on, searching for reasons to justify its continued existence
>and fund-raising. They thus try to make the few neo-Nazi nuts look like a
>real threat. Their activity has some resemblance to the “Red Scares”
>the US went through in the 1930s and the 1950s, except that the threat
>is far smaller.

> The Simon Weisenthal Center publishes a pamphlet, “The Neo-Nazi
>Movement in Germany: An Eyewitness Documentary Report” (1993,
>Los Angeles, Simon Weisenthal Center, ISBN 0-943058-17-1),
>which can be purchased at their Museum of Tolerance in L.A.
>This is a fascinating document which gives some insight into their
>operations. In their words, “Between October 1992 and April 1993, the
>Simon Weisenthal Center conducted a covert operation to determine the
>strength, financial base, and ultimate leadership of Germany’s
>neo-Nazi movement”. As you read the document, it becomes clear that
>the Simon Weisenthal Center operates like an intelligence service,
>with spies, cover stories, and such. They even went so far as to create
>a fake neo-Nazi publication (“The Right Way”) to give their
>agent some fake credentials, using their “research staff” and
>”graphic designer” to create forms, stationery, and such.
>This is not speculation; they boast of this.

> Statements from the Simon Weisenthal Center should be viewed in
>light of the above.

As in the US, fully 1/12 of the “militia” organizations are government
infiltrators trying to convince members to cause trouble. The SWC appears to
be generating and probably funding exactly what they claim to be working
against. As long as they get a good return on their investment why would they
care.

But then, it appear the German government “ignored” these infiltrators leading
to the interest in cooperation.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:38 PDT 1996
Article: 53056 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:20:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4r[email protected]> <4skl[email protected]> <31ef37f4[email protected]> <4sp5ob$f[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4ss[email protected]> <4t0[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37062 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26113 alt.revisionism:53056

On 24 Jul 1996 16:20:21 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 21:25:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>> Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
>>>post about Nizkor?
>> Anyone with half a brain and who has read the “plaform” of Nizkor would
>>not have to ask that the first time.

> Go ahead, Prince Myshkin, humour me!!

You need to be humored, obviously.

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

> I’m sure someone with an IQ of 163 could manage that! (Which test did
>you say you got it on?)

I did not but it was Cattell.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53057 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:21:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 10:22:20 PM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 13:21:38 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> But you miss the point.
>
>> The purpose of the holohuggers is to hurt.
>
>> These are not civilized people. These are animals.

> Thank you for the statement of the un-American and uncivilized beliefs
>that motivate you.

> Thank you as well for confirming the basic statement at the core of my
>posting.

> Well, Mr. Widemann: when does Giwer get added to your “thought
>crimes” archive?

Who is he and why do you think he would care? Have a URL or some such.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53060 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!crl.dec.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:09:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:10:11 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 10:08:46, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!] [Mon 22 Jul 96 21:48][Tue 23 Jul >96 02:04][0]*>

> mnc> You mean the delousing building. You mean the building
> mnc> where people went it, put their clothes into the small rooms and
> mnc> took showers to get rid of the lice. Is that the building you
> mnc> are talking about?

>No – the room where they were gassed.

>Enough evidence has been presented that this is what it was.

>More evidence than there is of your existence.

>Who are you?

>Why are you here?

No such evidence has ever been presented. Were you here you would know that.

You should have been here at the time it was being discussed.

Not ONE “eyewitness” testimony matches any “gaschamber”.

We all know that.

Catch up with the discussion some day when you have time.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:40 PDT 1996
Article: 53068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:11:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sa[email protected]> <4sb[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <4s[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4t[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:12:37 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 11:10:00, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[A question about the tone of language in this group...] [Mon 22 Jul 96 >23:25][Tue 23 Jul 96 06:06][0]*>

> >> Depends on who calls me a Jew and how he does it. As the
> >> Virginian said, “Smile when you say that!”

> mnc> Ask Alec Grynspan about the time I showed up at Temple only
> mnc> wearing a Talith. It was his idea to tell of the story and I
> mnc> agreed that he could do so.

>Nope – never said that. Read what I wrote, Matt.

>++GMAIL 1.3++ Quick – Which way did I go? !
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
>|Internet: [email protected]

Gee, you never made the phone call and you never proposed to post it and you
never posted it.

I am not impressed in the least with your lost honesty.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:41 PDT 1996
Article: 53069 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:45:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t2qun$5sv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31f5028a.11507[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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On 24 Jul 1996 07:38:30 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>I’d venture to guess Ken McVay is more like me: a masochist. Otherwise HOW
>>could he ever wade through the Giwer-garbage each day?

>Ah, but that’s where you’ve erred – I _don’t_ wade through it
>- it is deleted from my reader’s spool before I get into the
>newsgroup. Actually, there are two lines in the KILL file; the
>first archives the troll’s stuff, the second kills it, along
>with Moran’s. Makes for a peaceful morning.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:41 PDT 1996
Article: 53076 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:47:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4srb74$[email protected]> <4ss7b4$9o3 <[email protected]> <7187cc$b1531.ff@NEWS>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80499 alt.revisionism:53076

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:21:49 GMT, [email protected] (George F.
Hardy) wrote:

>Has there been an accurate count of the number? 6,000,000 Jews
>was claimed early, the number sort of picked out of the air.

>I have seen the following list:
>6,000,000 Jews
>5,000,000 Russians (non-Jewish)
>2,000,000 Poles (non-Jewish)
> 500,000 Gypsies
> 500,000 others.

>Is this close to correct? It seems to count all deaths in various
>detention camps.

Pick a number, any number. 31 Million vanished without a trace, alive? dead?
no one knows, but they vanished without a trace.

As to camps, no. The roving bands of executioners kill more every time the
camp number goes down. The objective is to keep the total number (12 million)
the same.

What has never been clear is what mechanism is used to separate the 43 million
(31 +12) into the untraceable and the known murdered. No one has ever made
this clear in any manner.

The one thing we do know is that taking Christian names and acting like
Christians is something Jews would never do because we are told that is not a
possible explanation for disappearing Jews.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:42 PDT 1996
Article: 53087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:02:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-40.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:03:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 06:04:42 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> Perhaps you would like to provide a few? After all with all of the horrors
>> reported even by people claiming to have participated in them, we never come
>> across even reports of castration much less actual examples of it.

> Where have you looked? In the bottom drawer of your bureau? Under
>the pile of dirty socks in your bedroom?

Where else would I look with an expectation of finding them?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:43 PDT 1996
Article: 53088 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!inquo!nebo.vii.com!vyzynz!nielsen!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:46:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4sv[email protected]> <4t2spm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:47:26 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:03:57 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 23 Jul 1996 16:57:42 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >> And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never
>> >>threatened a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.
>>
>> > You sure did talk a lot about a RICO suit, including asking if anyone
>> >would be interested.
>>
>> Is asking a threat? In what manner? Or are you as stupid as the attorneys
>> here?
>>

>Try again, Matt. Your “asking” was sufficiently threatening to satisfy a
>judge.

To satisfy a judge of what? Asking after a lawsuit? Is that illegal in
Canada?

Is that how you keep your attornies in line in Canada? Prohibit them from
talking about lawsuits?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:46:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52985 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.graphics.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU
Date: 22 Jul 1996 19:54:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on1-02.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 3:54:48 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2)

My Tampa address is:

Box # 27
14205 Nebraska Avenue
Tampa, Florida
33682-2541

phone number: 813-972-2574

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 07:25:16 PDT 1996
Article: 37050 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Join the Gang of Eight: Edit a Giwer page today!
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:12:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4t1df[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 8:14:00 PM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37050 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:322

On 24 Jul 1996 14:59:56 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>>If Mr. Giwer is looking for any sympathy for the alleged harassment of his
>>alleged parents, he sure picks a funny way of going about it.

>Mr. Giwer, using his own standards of proof, could not prove
>that his parents exist.

>Not that it matters, since…

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 09:10:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:19:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 3:20:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 05:56:31 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:46:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> >Then why do you not take your own advice, Mr. Giwer and put up or shut
>up.
>> >
>> >A statement like “Ken McVay harassed my parents” is crying out for proof
>> >– especially when Andrew Mathis has already confessed and apologised for
>> >calling your parents.
>> But at this point I do not know what the truth might be. I do know that
>a Ken
>> McVay called them. What this Mathis character has to do with it, I have no
>> idea other than what was in the message, if it was from his at all.

> In other words, you malicious son of a bitch, you were lying when you
>made your charge and knew it.

Actually if you had ever bothered to read the Mathis message you would know he
“came back and found out that” and then “confessed” to fraud. But of course
you did not bother to read it.

>You really are a stupid piece of work.

But instead you will continue the kind of libel you conspirators insist upon
accusing me of.

This
>statement is a clear admission of defamation even under the standards of NYT
>v. Sullivan. And, of course, you used what you knew to be a false charge in an
>attempt to intimidate someone.

Really? Is there anyone who would hire you after this post?

BTW: Never did ask you. Can you provide some citations of your cases? Just
out of curiosity of course.

> Let us see which of the “defenders of free speech” who have been
>so silent to this point will open their mouths.

If silence has an echo, its name is Nizkor.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 09:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 53095 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!washington.Capitol.Net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 9:28:56 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:59:17 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Quite an amazing bit of testimony.
>>
>Amazing and credible.

>> As “everyone” knows the testimony at the time for Auschwitz supported 4
>> million and thus it was not a camp for Jews, yet the deletions here attempt to
>> make that case.

>Once again, prove that this is what was deleted. Go get the originals if
>you think that this is what happened.

>>
>> In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE KNEW about the
>> extermination. In this post he states that it was a secret. Why is it that
>> no one gives a rat’s ass about Keren’s posts?

>Ummm – Matt, what’s so hard about this? That plenty of people knew is
>not a surprise. That the Nazis supressed as much as they did is not a
>surprise. Why can’t both happen?

A is A.

>After all, you try to pretend that you didn’t lose every argument – and
>everybody knows that you did.

>> > especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped
>> > like a normal soldier’s barracks with beds that had sheets on them,
>> > and well-functioning washrooms.
>>
>>
>> And the Red Cross team was composed of idiots. Sounds like Hogan’s Heros.

>So? What’s your point?

>>
>> Excessive delitions spark great curiosity.
>>

>The rest of the posting is available. Go and get it, Matt.

>You’re the one who refuses to provide URLs – particularly for stuff that
>doesn’t exist. Now *YOU* point to the deletion of excess and
>inconsequential material and hint at all sorts of things.

>Stop being so damned paranoid!

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better, I don’t know.”

When people get gassed six times and live to tell about, I do not consider it
paranoia.

He’s a Nazi.

How do you know?

He gassed me. … Well, it got better.

I thought that one was a joke when I made it up. Now I know it “really”
happened. Truth doth be stranger than fiction.

>Also – provide proof that the material that was deleted contradicts what
>wasn’t.

>Or – are you going t state that you “never said that”. In which case,
>why did you bother?

>>
>> >A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
>> > were gassed.
>>
>> Except for future famous people like Anne Frank. How prescient.

>What logic! What perspicacity!

>People who didn’t die an anonymous death sometimes became famous!

>Wow!

>GROW UP, MATT!

And then I was told that she survived Auschwitz ONLY because of her age and
that everyone younger than her was gassed immediately upon arrival. And then
I find other stories of younger children surviving.

Does the inconsistancy of the true truths never bother you?

>> >Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
>> > Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because
>> > of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?
>>
>> >A. Also to be gassed.
>>
>> Anne Frank?

>Non-sequitur?

No, Anne Frank.

And then there is Wiesel and his father who chose to be evacuated from
Auschwitz rather than liberated by the Russians.

Trying to make consistent sense out of the conflicting stories is quite
impossible.

The true issue is that those who witness the impossible were not witnesses at
all.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 10:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 53106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor: Supporter of terrorists
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:16:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 10:18:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 16:18:05 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> Actually Matty poo is in deeper doo-doo than he realizes. Technically
>>we have a “request” to perform a specific act coupled with an unspecified
>>threat which was later clarified as being a threat of extra legal action. In
>>the United States we call that “extortion.” At least that’s what the U.S.
>>Attorney assigned to Tampa thought.

> Right now I can imagine Mattie poo jumping up and down in his seat,
>shouting “I’ll sue you!!! I’ll sue you!!! I’ll sue that U.S. Attorney too!”

> He’s probably stomping his foot and holding his breath, too.

>> As I told Matty poo: it’s time for him to find a god. The prayers for
>>MacVay and Nizkor be should be very sincere. I suggest he makes them on a
>>regular basis.

> Not to mention making amends for what he said and/or threatened.

I will be certain to keep everyone informed of everything that happens.

Lets see, at best the conversation was with a newbie as an intake officer.

Next there will be a priority assigned to the case. Now do not forget, this
is a real big one. It will make careers. Investigators will be fighting to
be assigned the case once they know it is on the books.

Then, the investigators (four or five at least as this is such a high priority
case) will try to put together a case. He will be provided all the supporting
information, fellow victims, and witnesses I have including all of the email
evidence.

After that he will present his case to a prosecutor. The prosecutor will then
decide whether or not to present it to a grand jury to request an indictment.

And in the process of all of this, their time and costs will be considered.
But since it is a case of such major international implications it will be
pursued, no expense being too great.

Then the grand jury will have to issue a true bill. And then …

The mind boggles.

Or take an alternate scenario, a Canadian magistrate has issued an arrest
warrant and it is forwarded to the Justice Department, there being no such
thing in Canada. It is first reviewed for merit as said Justice Department
does not make a habit of arresting US citizens and incurring the costs of
extradition proceedings on the word of just anyone who happens to have the
title of magistrate.

=====

This is all getting fascinating though. As I have said, I do hope it was a
criminal filing and a criminal investigation. That way the scope and
direction are up to the American investigator.

And I, not having filed complaint one, will not come off looking like the
holohuggers will look.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 10:08:50 PDT 1996
Article: 53108 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!gail.ripco.com!code.ripco.com!news.tds.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:40:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:24 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
>[Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
>Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
>VIII, p. 313-321]
>———————————————————————-
>Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

>A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
> extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
> that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
> considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
> time, because the facts that were being described seemed too
> terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
> convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated,
> I was very much shaken emotionally.
>
> .
> .
> .

>Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
> gassed at Auschwitz?

>A. Yes.

Quite an amazing bit of testimony.

As “everyone” knows the testimony at the time for Auschwitz supported 4
million and thus it was not a camp for Jews, yet the deletions here attempt to
make that case.

> .
> .
> .

>Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
> beings were being gassed and exterminated?

>A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of
> Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a
> completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused
> me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo
> was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the
> secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly
> worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his
> closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody
> who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the
> Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about
> Auschwitz.

> .
> .
> .

In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE KNEW about the
extermination. In this post he states that it was a secret. Why is it that
no one gives a rat’s ass about Keren’s posts?

>Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
> Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
> days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

>A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
> commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
> and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
> masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the
> people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
> treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
> were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
> especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped
> like a normal soldier’s barracks with beds that had sheets on them,
> and well-functioning washrooms.

> .
> .
> .

And the Red Cross team was composed of idiots. Sounds like Hogan’s Heros.

>Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
> beings?

>A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

> .
> .
> .

Excessive delitions spark great curiosity.

>Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
> in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn’t quite clear as to why they were
> sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I’d like to put just a question or two
> to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital
> at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
> edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

>A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
> were gassed.

Except for future famous people like Anne Frank. How prescient.

>Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because
> of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

>A. Also to be gassed.

Anne Frank?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 11:44:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53122 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:53:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:54:59 PM PDT 1996
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