Giwer Matt, 3-1996 – p4

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 18:36:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52298 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 06:47:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:40:47 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle Rivkis)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>>This time I said nothing about suing.

>No. It might have saved your hide if you had, because threatening to
>sue is strictly exercising a legal right, whereas blackmail with un-
>specified penalties is a crime. I’ve turned it over to your sysadmin
>and intend to turn it over to the police as well.

Do you really think they are as dumb as you are?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 18:36:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52299 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 07:01:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 21 Jul 1996 08:08 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
>

>> Should anyone be interested for any purpose whatsoever.

> Thanks. I was wondering where to send that Nizkor contribution cheque.

It is called WHOIS you stupid shit. If you do not like my making it available raise
hell with NIC for their making it available.

=====

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

Why do I always find myself among such ignorant amateurs?

But you can not send it there. As last reported he has no tax exempt status and no
contributions can be passed to a person without tax exempt status by any
organization.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 18:36:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52304 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: NEW RULES
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:17:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Henceforeward anyone wishing to question what has been covered is to be directed to
archival sources.

This is very in accord with the jointly conspiratorial and libelou Nizkor Gang doing
the same thing.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 19:31:34 PDT 1996
Article: 52316 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:57:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 20:09:27 +0200, “Jens S. Larsen” wrote:

>Ole! Didn’t I tell you to stay in alt.revisionism? Leave them
>Germans alone!

>On 1996/07/19 [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>, Silke-Maria Weinec wrote:
>> >
>> >If it doesn’t matter to you that other people died a gruesome death, why
>> >should it matter to us whether you can continue to blabber on?

>> Hey a lot of people have died a gruesome deaths all the way through history
>> and even today people are tortured to death in many countries around the
>> world (if you are going to believe e.g. reports by Amnestry International).
>> Silke, can you give me just one good reason why I should care more about
>> people murdered by _you_ Germans during Hitler than people murdered in
>> Uganda during Idi Amin or Cambodians murdered by the Khmer Rouge?

>Do you want to emigrate to Germany, Ole? Have you completely
>forgotten what you’ve been saying about them? Otherwise there’s no
>reason for you to care about what they are allowed to or not.

>> In Cambodia more than one million people were killed.

>In WW2 twelve million people were killed. So it’s twelve times worse
>to lie about.

And an additional 31 million disappeared without a trace. No one has claimed
they died, simply that they are untraceable. It has been difficult to explain
the rather arbitrary means by which a certain number of them were assigned to
the 12 million category.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 22:33:28 PDT 1996
Article: 52329 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:51:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:14:59 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:46:32 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >> Clearly you can not tell the difference from the type used for pest
>> >> control and the other types.
>>
>> >It has yet to be demonstrated that any type was _not_ used in the
>> >extermination effort.
>>
>> Proof of a negative? Are you truly that stupid?

>Try again, Matt.

>There is nothing wrong with that under the appropriate terms.

>All you have to do is show a single document that states that one of the
>types of Zyklon could not be used for whatever reason and you’d prove
>it.

>You have asserted it. You must prove it.

>Your rules, Matt.

And I have already done exactly what you say I need to do. If you had been
around as long as you claim you would have read it. This is not the place to
repeat old arguments. Go find it on DejaNews.

It you have a problem with what you find there, you should bring that up.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 22:33:28 PDT 1996
Article: 52340 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Moving right along
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:05:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing any place at any time can
we move on with this conference?

Or shall we have to suffer the holohuggers forever disrutpting the conference?

This is getting eternallly boring having the holohuggers coming back with refuted
nonsense that is of no interest to this conference.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 23:08:25 PDT 1996
Article: 52346 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:45:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 22 Jul 1996 12:52:13 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>Richard J. Green wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You are confusing effusion with a graviational effect. The mean-free
>>> path in air is about 100 nm.
>>
>>…
>>>
>>> How much does this velocity change due to the influence of gravity
>>> before the molecule travels 100 nm and gets slammed into by another
>>> molecule going at Crms?
>>>
>>
>>Under the conditions that I’m talking about, effusion is not yet of
>>consequence.
>>
>>The outgassing of HCN creates an almost pure cloud of the gas around the
>>carrier. The molecules of HCN will meet only other such molecules except
>>at the boundary.

>The outgassing will create a concentration profile related to a complementary
>error function (see below for an approximate treatment. Turbulent diffusion
>will be the dominant effect.

>>The pressure of outgassing would force some of the gas to move up the
>>pipe as a unit. If the volume of the pipe were within the right range,
>>this would cause it to become filled with essentially pure HCN, which
>>would rise. As the gas left the top of the open pipe it would mix
>>rapidly with the air and diffuse.

>Whether or not the HCN (which would not be nearly pure!) would depend
>on the density of the gas in question. This density will be dictated by
>the temperature of the gas. As the HCN rose, it would expand and cool.
>It’s density will be mostly a function of temperature.

Rather the opposite. It is “boiling” off (or whatever but going from a liquid
to a gas and thus requiring the addition of energy) and lowering the
temperature of what remains. So it is rather it is heading towards ambient
temperature, whatever that happens to be.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:37 PDT 1996
Article: 52352 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:48:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]m> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:47:42 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> If you have what you claim, why do you not demonstrate it here? On the other hand,
>> what might that PhD be in? Unless it is in a science or engineering or a related
>> field, it is certainly not related to analytic thought. You certainly demonstrate
>> none on this subject.

>BZZZZTTTT!

>Wrong again, Matt!

>Analytic methods are taught in many disciplines.

>Even in Pharmacology.

That is a science even if a medical science.

>But you knew that!

Now that you are the official spokescritter for this person, what is the
answer to the question? What is the degree in?

>> But then, surprise me. Tell me it is not literature or history or some other
>> typically worthless filler degree. Surprise me again and tell me you are actually
>> working in your degree field.

>An ad hominem in advance.

>Can’t you, for even one posting, avoid this tack?

>BTW – I happen to have been working with an individual with a dgree in
>PHILOSOPHY who can run rings around you when it comes to analytic
>thought or debate.

>But – you SHOULD know that!

So what is the answer?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:38 PDT 1996
Article: 52353 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:49:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:03:20 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On 21 Jul 1996 16:26:26 GMT, [email protected] (Silke-Maria
>Weineck)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >No, sorry, Giwer, you’re dead wrong. I happen to hold a Ph.D. and know
>> >how to do research and how to compare evidence — a skill you’re
>> >clearly lacking. A hint: websites by Neonazis are not usually
>> >considered to be valid documents. Now let’s hear your qualifications
>> >for mouthing off.
>>
>> If you have what you claim, why do you not demonstrate it here?
>On the other hand,
>> what might that PhD be in? Unless it is in a science or engineering or
>a related
>> field, it is certainly not related to analytic thought. You certainly
>demonstrate
>> none on this subject.

>Far be it for me to call Mr. Giwer incorrect, but since he has never had
>to defend a PhD in ANY field, how woule he know whether analytic thought
>is required?
>
>I personally don’t know of ANY PhD committee that would not DEMAND
>analytical thought, regardles of WHAT field it is in.
>
>Sigh.
>
>Sara

>–
>”A perfect writer would make words sing, dance, kiss, do the male and female act, bear children, weep, bleed, rage, steal, stab, fire cannon, steer ships, sack cities, charge with cavalry or infantry, or do any thing, that man or woman or the natural powers can do.”
> Walt Whitman

So what is the degree field?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:39 PDT 1996
Article: 52371 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 01:48:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:40:33 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In article
>> [email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
>> >
>> > Not to mention that “building X” contained _four_ small disinfestation
>> > rooms _and_ a larger gas chamber that bore a striking resemblence to those
>> > used in the T4 program. It was in the gas chamber, and _not_ the
>> > disinfestation rooms, that Blaha said he saw gassing victims in. It was
>> > also the gas chamber that Rascher told Payne-Best about in regards to the
>> > difficulties of camouflaging it and concealing the gassings that took
>> > place there. (cf. _Nazi Mass Murder_, pp.202-204.)
>>
>> Sorry I’ve not been responding, I’ve had connection problems. I’ve heard a
>> lot about T4 and don’t dispute the existence of the euthanasia programme but
>> I’ve never seen a photograph of these chambers. They are said to exist but
>> never produced – a typical Exterminationist tactic.

>Ah, such a typical denier tactic: “Where are the photos.” As if the mounds
>of records, documents, and eywitness testimonies verifying that over
>100,000 _Germans_ were murdered; not to mention that their _remains_,
>which in many cases were delivered (more or less) to the victims’
>relatives, don’t matter one bit!

What mounds of records and documents? We have been over this before. There
are a couple of questionable documents. That is all.

>Tsk tsk. Haven’t changed at all, have you, Al? Do you still claim that
>nary a Jew was murdered during Kristallnacht too?

There was even a UUE of one posted here a few months ago. But as usual there
was no way to tell what religion or ethnic group the person belonged to. It
was simply another creative caption.

>> I have documented Blaha’s nonsense already. What Rascher allegedly told
>> Payne Best is evidence of nothing.

>Historically, Al, everything Rascher told Payne-Best is useful. Rascher’s
>memo regarding testing combat gases in the gas chamber at Dachau is also
>quite useful. I know that puts a burr under your saddle and all… You
>really should get used to it though.

More interesting is the failure to ever do so and no explanation for that is
provided. It is also quite interesting that this is one of the few documents
that exist, making it stand out by the absense of all the rest.

>> By the way, do you know what happened to Rascher?

>He and his wife were sentanced to death by the Nazis for child
>substitution (they tried to pass off two, presumably non-Aryan children,
>as their own biological children) and were rumored to be shot at Dachau.

>> The point about the Dachau “gas chamber” is that a delousing chamber was
>> photographed and exhibited as a gas chamber and testimony was adduced that
>> people were gassed with “cyanide powder”, ie Zyklon B.

>Would this be, by chance, the: U.S. Army documentary film, ADC 4468/SPX-G
>LIB 6572 of 3 May 1945, Army Pictorial Center, Long Island City, N.Y.?

>You know, the one that showed “in detail the inside rooms of the
>crematorium, the room called the morgue, the room with the four crematory
>ovens, and finally the gas chamber. This last was a windowless room; metal
>strips pierced with holes had been set in the cincrete ceiling; on one of
>the iron doors was the inscription: ‘Showers.’ On the left side of the
>building were four little disinfestation rooms; also closed with iron
>doors, which bore the inscription, under a death’s-head: ‘Attention! Gas!
>Danger of Death. Do Not Open.'” (_Nazi Mass Murder_, p.203.)

>Is _this_ the film you’re talking about, Al?

You mean the delousing building. You mean the building where people went it,
put their clothes into the small rooms and took showers to get rid of the
lice. Is that the building you are talking about?

>> This is in the Nuremberg documents (Volume XXX). Matt Giwer has posted
>> this here and I have a photocopy of the actual document. This testimony
>> was obviously made up by the Americans. All “gassing” testimony is equally
>> reliable, ie perjured.

>Don’t forget Dr. Larsen, the U.S. Army forensic pathologist who was at
>Dachau just after its liberation. He wrote that:

>”The majority [of prisoners] died of natural diseases of one kind or the
>another. However, we did probe into such questions as, ‘What happened to
>those prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do
>with them?’ Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First,
>however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the
>crematorium where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The
>victims were then ordered to strip and take a ‘shower.’ Outside the
>building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then they’d blow the cyanide
>gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think
>this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those
>they considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo’s opinion,
>were incorrigibles. But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates
>I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner.” (_Crime
>Doctor_, p.61.)

>Ah, but then, you claim _all_ testimony about gassing is “perjured.” Why?
>So far simply because Al Baron says so, of course! Not a shred of solid
>evidence to support your claims, just “Because I Say So!”

This is not perjured. This is hearsay. He had no personal knowledge of what
he described. It shows from his use of “cyanide pellets” right from US gas
chambers.

And how did he know the showerheads were false? What the copper plumbing
missing? Do you realize how many gas chambers there are in the world under
that criteria?

He also embellishes his story with he claim to have examined people who died
this way. Obviously he was “examining” bone fragments. But taking his words
literally it is obvious that some inmates recovered from the gassing.

The man clearly does not know what he is talking about.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:39 PDT 1996
Article: 52375 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nyiszli’s Memoirs of Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 01:54:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
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References: <[email protected]>
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On 22 Jul 1996 06:58:58 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article , [email protected]
>(Mark Van Alstine) writes:

>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>> He is wrong about the dimensions of the undressing cellar.
>>
>>Yep. Flat wrong. Off by 4x.
>>
>>> He is wrong about the dimensions of the gas chamber.
>>
>>Yep. Flat wrong. Off by 4x.
>>
>>> He is wrong about the number of elevators…
>>
>>Yep. Flat wrong. Off by 4x.
>>
>>And let us not _also_ forget that Nyiszli _also_ overestimated the number
>>of victims kille by 4x.
>>
>>An interesting pattern emerges it seems. Dr. Nyizsli, an intelligent man,
>>who seems so attentive to detail elsewhere, makes these obvious and gross
>>errors? _All_ of which are _exactly_ off by 4x? Now what possibly could
>>explain this?
>>
>>An error in translation? Perhaps. Faulty memory? Perhaps. Simply bad with
>>numbers? Perhaps.
>>
>>But since Ehrlich606 is _so_ fond of bashing the Soviets in defense of
>the
>>Nazis, how about I play along? Could it be, perhaps, that these errors
>>were _intentional_? That Nyiszli, knowing that the Soviet death toll
>>estimates did not match up with his experiance at Auschwitz, sought some
>>way to hint such without taking any heat?
>>
>>How about picking a few _obvious_ and _verifiable_ things (such as Krema
>>dimensions, number of elevators, etc.) and _exaggerate_ them by _exactly_
>>the amount the Soviet death toll for Auschwitz was exaggerated by! What a
>>marvelously subtle idea!
>>
>Welcome to Byzantium!

>The idea that Nyiszli would exaggerate things by four as a *secret code of
>dissent* does not add up. The dimensions of the rooms are given as 200
>yards long. 1/4 would be 150 feet. In fact, the undressing cellar is 175
>feet long, the chamber 100 feet long. The number of victims, divided by
>four, is 3000/4 = 750. So much for 1,000 or 2,000 at a time.

>In fact, the Soviets never mentioned the dimensions of the Kremas in their
>Special Commission, submitted at the IMT as USSR-8. They _did_ however
>give the dimensions of the four burning pits. And guess what? Nyiszli’s
>dimensions are dead on with the dimensions of the Soviet Commission. In
>addition, Nyiszli’s cremation time for three corpses is 20 minutes, also
>in accordance with USSR-8. So much for that theory.

>There are other correspondences with USSR-8 that should be explored.

At first I was considering the translation error of meter to feet but once you
get passed dimensions and find similar errors that explanation goes away.

Finding an exact match with other sources pretty much nails down where he got
his numbers. The NKVD has struck again.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:40 PDT 1996
Article: 52378 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 23:51:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 4:52:04 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80327 alt.revisionism:52378

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:01:27 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> The issue is that the “witnesses” were reporting it as blue because of the German
>> name for it Blausaure, blue acid. It is clear from every available source that the
>> material available at Auschwitz had a wood pulp carrier and was in no manner related
>> to anything blue.

>Repetition doesn’t make things true, Matt.

>You’re simply sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and
>yelling “Not true!” – like a child.

>You lost this one too, Matt. Stop behaving like a child and prove you’re
>not an infantile mind like Moron and company.

>IOW:

>GROW UP, MATT!!

As you know, I posted the Degesh publication describing the type used as a
fumigant. You also know that you read that post. Therefore you know it was a
wood pulp carrier.

So what point are you trying to make?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:41 PDT 1996
Article: 52381 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!gondor!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just for fun
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:50:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 11:51:44 PM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 07:40:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Ten Commandments Temple Tour
>[not-funny attempt at satire deleted]
>
>Mr. Giwer:
>
>I applaud you attempt (although weak) at satire. But would you please keep
>it on-topic? What does the Ark of the Covenant have to do with
>revisionism?

It is a matter of true believers in their religious traditions admit they
invented genocide of course.

No one ever accused me of playing by any rules.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:42 PDT 1996
Article: 52382 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:53:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:54:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 17:17:50 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 11:23:45 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>>>> Chris Lewis

>>>> In fact I pointed out to him how he was being so easily used by the
>>>> holohuggers in their harrassment campaign and he stopped his efforts.

>>>Mr. Giwer appears to be claiming that someone contacted Mr. Lewis and
>>>_asked_ him to cancel Mr. Giwer’s spam several weeks ago. I regret to
>>>inform Mr. Giwer that Mr. Lewis’s spam-cancellations are determined by a
>>>computer algorithm, not by human whim. Furthermore, nobody I know has
>>>contacted Mr. Lewis, and certainly not to call his attention to the spam
>>>of Mr. Giwer.

>>>In short, Mr. Giwer is trolling with lies, again.

>>>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/cancels.0796

>>>Posted; emailed “FYI” to Mr. Lewis, with a nod of thanks for continuing
>>>to perform his thankless job.

>> Do you think you have any credibility after the stupid shit you
>>have been emailing?

>For the record:

> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
> stopped spamming.
> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>flamewar.

With your trivial credibility on the line, I would not admit anything either.

You were used.

You have no business or authority doing what you are claiming to do.

You need to be cut off at the knees.

Patience. It will happen.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:42 PDT 1996
Article: 52383 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:55:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:56:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:32:21 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Do you think you have any credibility after the stupid shit you have been emailing?
>>

>Yes – because it isn’t stupid shit.

>But you knew that.

>> You are certifiable.

>A libelous comment, Matt. You shou learn of the subtleties between libel
>and your own definition of same.

So is most of USENET. You know that. What is your issue?

EVERYTHING is said in the heat of the moment and instantly regreted but the
regret is not posted as that will be used against the person who posts it and,
since everyone knows it, it is a waste of bandwidth to post regrets.

Want to try again?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:43 PDT 1996
Article: 52385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What was the plan for the holocaust?
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:45:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 11:45:56 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 17:59:24 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>What was the plan for the Holocaust?
>>
>> Surprisingly, we have little hard information on the
>>subject. In fact we have only one master plan document which is
>>the Wannsee Protocol.

>And we have Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” and we have Himmler’s secret speeches
>and we have Lagarde and we have Drexler and, and, and..

>And, please do read a book about the Wannsee-Konferenz. It doesn’t matter
>which one as long as it is a real history book and not one of your cheap
>”revisionist” brochures. You will find all of your questions answered.

So your reading skills are a problem but your “reading into” skills are
politiclally correct.

So what?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:43 PDT 1996
Article: 52387 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauveing right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:21:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:22:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 96 07:12:18, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Mauveing right along] [Sun 21 Jul 96 23:24][Mon 22 Jul 96 04:09][0]*>

> mnc> When it has been clearly pointed out that the fumigant type
> mnc> of ZB is wood pulp in a publication by the manufacturer the
> mnc> holohuggers are still hot and heavy on the color under the
> mnc> assumption that it is silica gel.

>You already lost this one Matt.

>Trying this kind of selectivity is like a child putting his fingers
>in his and pouting “not so! not so!”.

>Act your age!

Your Fido tactics against your pretended enemies are getting a touch boring at
this point.

You have already clearly confused matters as to who said what in the Dahlman
affair and I have drawn back from correcting you. You should realiaze by now
that in some of his posts about me he was correct even though you denounced
them as his.

You need to learn to take this matter seriously. This is the ONLY place in
the entire world where gassing can be and is being discussed.

You are making foolish posts that are not supported by the record of the
conference.

You are taking this downhill very quickly.

It is not you or me as neither of us will change in basic premise. It is the
lurkers who will read and decide for themselves.

You are repeating a mantra to every new thing I post.

What in fact do you think you are contributing to the side that holds your
point of view?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:44 PDT 1996
Article: 52393 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:43:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:44:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:00:46 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> Quite often the topic of Jewish population before the war pops up
>on alt.revisionism. It is important to the Holocaust story to show
>there were enough Jews in Europe to be killed and add up to 6 million.
>Most of the time, those in favor of the story respond to challenges by
>citing German estimates on the population of Jews in Europe.
>Something like, ‘WHAT? What are you talking about? Look, even the
>Germans estimated …’.

> As it turns out these estimates are deeply suspect.

> “In the final solution conference of January 20, 1942, the Reich
>Main Security Office offered the following population statistics for
>these countries: Findland 2,300; … Netherlands, 165,000; …
>Romania, 342,000; … Hungary, 742,000; … France (occupied) 165,000;
>… France (unoccupied), 700,000; The total is 2,475,100. But the sum
>was inflated, principally because of the gross over-estimate for
>unoccupied France, by about 600,000 people.”
> *Raul Hilberg
>
> Lets summarize: The one number was 700,000 and the correction is
>100,000. This figure of the number of Jews in France is put at 70,000
>in recent referrences.
> The same list has 700,000 Jews living in Hungary before the war.
>Other figures put it at 800,000 and 900,000. Since the Jewish
>population of France was ten times what it is alleged to be now, we
>have to consider the same ratio applies to the Hungarian 700,000,
>which puts a big quink into the allegations that 200,000 to 450,000
>were gassed at Auschwitz.
> Well so much for citing German estimates as proof there were
>enough Jews in Europe to validify the numerical part of the story.
>_________________________

> * We can thank Raul Hilberg in his demonstration of objectivety
>and honesty for reporting on this 700,000 only being 100,000.
>Evidentally there was just too much of one thing or not enough of
>another available for world scrutiny to maintain this number of
>700,000.
> In light of this development, should we just accept this as a one
>exception out of the other 15 countries mentioned or would it be
>justified to take this a step further and apply this same ratio to
>revise the rest, like Hungary, reported to have had 700,000 Jews.
>(Pressac now claims 200 to 250 thousand Hungarian Jews were delivered
>to Auschwitz instead of 450,000.) Perhaps the 700,000 reported to have
>been in Hungary is more like 100,000 also, or even much less.

What we have in the US is this highly inflated view of the number of Jews in
the world based upon media representation. But again, if The Bell Curve has
any validity, then nearly half the US media staff and such is Jewish. This is
based upon 1/3 of NYC being Jewish.

It has been quite amazing to read the posts of people dumb enough to contest
this point.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:45 PDT 1996
Article: 52397 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!panix!news.denver.eti.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:19:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 144
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 3:20:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 96 23:08:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Genocide] [Sun 21 Jul 96 19:41][Sun 21 Jul 96 22:25][0]*>

> mnc> Actually what it is more interesting to show is that those
> mnc> who actually believe these stories are not telling you where you
> mnc> are wrong and defending their beliefs. It appears they have a

>No ground shifts, Matt.

Actually you are quite more knowledgeable than this and you know smoking out the
believers has always been one of my tactics. That you would claim this is shift is
to deny your own knowledge of my tactics. And you were claiming to know them so
intimately.

>As for those who “believe”, you should learn a little about the
>folks you malign before maligning them.

>Now:

>Once again:

>Try again, Matt. Yaweh spoke with a voice like thunder or from the
>middle of burning bushes – no mistaking that guy! It says so in the
>document that you’re using as a reference.

>Once again – *PROVE IT*.

>All of it, Matt. Not the part that you’re pointing at – all of it.

>Explain why it differs from all of the other stories that
>archaeologists have found that sing praises to their gods, kings and
>god-kings – the ones where THEIR Big Kahuna slew all of the enemy
>with blasts of lightning, fire, whatever, leaving none alive.
>Explain why these glorious triumphs sometimes took place on both
>sides of a battle.

>*SHOW THE DIFFERENCE, MATT!*

> >> Oh – and while you’re at it, please tell us thime frame of the
> >> writing of the story. Not when it took place, but when it was
> >> finally recorded in a written fashion.

> mnc> During the time of the Kings, David is the current best
> mnc> guess if I remember correctly.

>BZZZZT!!!

>Try again – and update to the time of Jeremiah for part and Ezra for
>the rest.

>Even this you don’t have right – yet you misquote with utter
>abandon!

> >> *PROVE THAT EXTORTION, FORCE OR ANY OTHER COERCION WAS USED TO
> >> OBTAIN THESE STATEMENTS*

> >> By your standards, Matt – nobody else’s.

> mnc> My standards in regard to confessions are very like those of
> mnc> the US regarding confessions. The right to remain silent, the
> mnc> right to have an attorney present during any questioning. They
> mnc> are very similar to those of England and presumably Canada. I
> mnc> am unaware of those standards being in effect.

>Try again, Matt. You want retroactive rules before you accept the
>evidence.

>However, that only deals with rights no available to the folks
>involved anyway and still ducks the issue.

>Once again:

>*PROVE THAT EXTORTION, FORCE OR ANY OTHER COERCION WAS USED TO
>OBTAIN THESE STATEMENTS*

>By your standards, Matt – nobody else’s.

>By your standards of PROOF, Matt, not by whether an individual in
>1945 was Mirandized – which still doesn’t imply extortion anyway.

> mnc> Which means that they are inadmissable as evidence.
> mnc> Certainly were there a possibility of a retrial things would go
> mnc> much differently, unless the new trials were held in Israel that
> mnc> is.

>Cut the crap, Matt. This is utter bullshit and a stupid snipe and
>shift.

>The stuff was utterly admissible as evidence in a trial – which
>still has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

>Let’s try again. I’ll type real slow – OK?

>*PROVE THAT EXTORTION, FORCE OR ANY OTHER COERCION WAS USED TO
>OBTAIN THESE STATEMENTS*

>By your standards, Matt – nobody else’s.

>By your standards of PROOF, Matt, not by whether an individual in
>1945 was Mirandized – which still doesn’t imply extortion anyway.

>Further – since we are talking facts, not legal technicalities or
>whether evidence is admissible in a courtroom, PROVE YOUR
>CONTENTIONS!

>Two of them here:

>1. That the bible, which you are using as a valid document, is a
> real, true and valid source of historical information.

> Prove the chapters from Genesis to the end of the Jewish section
> are all 100% legitimate.

> No zig-zags, Matt.

> You’ve made a claim based on the bible as being legitimate.

> You’ve claimed that documents are not valid if there is *ANY*
> error in them.

> Now – use your rules.

>2. You’ve claimed torture and coercion in obtaining statements.
> Prove:

> A. That such torture took place. Where is it documented, Matt?

> B. That the contents of the statements is invalid *AS FACT*.

> No BS about Miranda, courtroom rules of evidence, whatever. We
> are talking facts, not the glorified debating forum called a
> trial.

>PROVE IT, MATT!

>++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you – Bozo or Clarabelle?
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
>|Internet: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:46 PDT 1996
Article: 52402 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:29:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:30:36 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:44:33 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Uh huh. Does that mean I am right?

>Nope. It means you are being a facetious troll. You’re spending _way_ too
>much time with the Troll. Monkey see, monkey do….

With nothing better to suppor your gassin stupitidy you post this.

Anything else?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:46 PDT 1996
Article: 52403 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:36:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:37:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 02:41:19 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 21 Jul 1996 10:14:47 -0400,
>>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>[1942 letter from Brack to Himmler, proposing sterilization by X-ray
>snipped]

>>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> Strangely, but not surprisingly, we know today that sterilization by
>>>>>>radiation is one of the hardest things to do.
>>
>>> Works with fruit flies, no?
>>
>>
>>>>> Umm, Matt? The letter was written in 1942.
>>>>
>>>> X-Rays are many decades older (1898?). It was certainly known long
>>>>before 1942.

> Handwaving. Note the lack of any evidence.

> Who makes the claim bears the burden of proof.

Not ONE person, period. Sorry about that.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:47 PDT 1996
Article: 52406 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McFly
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:34:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:35:01 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Now we have McFly wasting all his creating ignoed messages.

What s tool.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:47 PDT 1996
Article: 52407 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:38:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:39:53 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[To Hilary Ostrov]

># Dear Fatbroad,

>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>was his lowest score.

Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the reproductive organs.

What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:48 PDT 1996
Article: 52408 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:25:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36883 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25973 alt.revisionism:52408

On 22 Jul 1996 21:25:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> This time I said nothing about suing.
>
> Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
>post about Nizkor?

Anyone with half a brain and who has read the “plaform” of Nizkor would not
have to ask that the first time.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:49 PDT 1996
Article: 52410 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What was the basis for the stories about the holocaust?
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:58:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:26:59 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Again, there is surprisingly little.

>This is from our “Holocaust expert”, who claimed that
>Belsen camp was in Poland, and numerous other nonsense.

>I mean, he knows nothing – nothing. But that doesn’t
>stop him from making all this “deep” analysis. Heck, his
>IQ is 163, ain’t it? So why should he bother with the facts?

Actually this is from the person who says this is the lowest I ever received
and Alec Grynspan refuses to post from him amazing archive my opinion of IQ.

>A man who claims that “gas chamber” and “gassing cellar”
>in the construction documents of the Birkenau kremas, are
>due to a “morbid sense of humor” of the SS-men writing the
>documents.

>But, hell, it’s a free country, ignorants and imbeciles
>are allowed to present their opinions; I’m for it.

># Almost all of the information we have comes from eyewitnesses.

>A lie.

># Unfortunately these witnesses are not particularly credible in
># that they tell stories that are contrary to science, conflict
># with each other and otherwise offer fanciful elements that are
># curious at best.

>A lie.

># And interesting sidebar to this is that Auschwitz had an
># extensive underground organization and tens of thousands of
># letters were sent in and out over the years. Not one has been
># found that mentions gassing. Hundreds of diaries were kept by
># inmates. Not one of them mentions gassing.

>A lie.

>Stop lying so much. It may be the first step on a long way
>to recovery.

You are truly stupid PhD type. It is expected that you are.

You are not to be seriously considreed in any futher discussion of this
subjest. You are not bright enough to participate.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:50 PDT 1996
Article: 52420 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:49:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 9:49:55 PM CDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:50:54 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Ehrlich606 wrote:
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>>>moran) writes:
>>>
>>>>>How would Mr. Moran recommend proving that? They were detecting
>>>>>cyanides in solution, Mr. Moran!
>>>>>
>>>>>The reactions:
>>>>>
>>>>>2H2O => OH- + H3O+
>>>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>HCN.H2O => CN- + H3O+
>>>>>
>>>>>will control the relation between HCN and CN- in solution no matter
>>>>>which you start with n’est-ce pas?
>>>>
>>>> No relevance given. Mr.Green’s practice of introducing some
>>>>chemical equations to give his stuff a sense of authority.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>Wait until Mr. Green demonstrates that potassium, nickel, and iron can
>>>make a very dangerous weapon — especially for OJ.
>>
>>Perhaps Mr. Ehrlich would like to explain to us how it is possible to
>>differentiate between HCN and CN- ions in aqueous solution without
>>taking into account these reactions?

> The only book I could find in the library that dealt with cyanide
>exclusively, was one by a Connell, spelling uncertain, which focued on
>explaining various methods that could be used to detect certain kinds
>of cyanide compounds. It was basically written in respect to mining
>operations, which use cyanide to leach metals from crushed ore.

> There are a number of ways of detecting the types and
>concentrations of cyanide compounds.

> Whatever Mr.Green is proposing here, whether it be correct or
>incorrect, is irrelevant. Mr.green’s practice is to put these ‘Hah
>hah, what about this’ type of thing up for consideration and yet fails
>to show a relevance that was and has been solicited in this very
>thread.

His objective is to willfully mislead people into believing something that is
not true. He has been doing it for a long time.

He is very impressed with his knowledge of chemistry and thinks people are
impressed when he shows it off.

Unfortunately he misuses that knowledge.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:51 PDT 1996
Article: 52422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!stevens-tech.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:11:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 7:12:18 PM CDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:24:53 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 21 Jul 96 23:08:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
>>
>> ><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>> ><+[Genocide] [Sun 21 Jul 96 19:41][Sun 21 Jul 96 22:25][0]*>
>>
>> > mnc> Actually what it is more interesting to show is that those
>> > mnc> who actually believe these stories are not telling you where you
>> > mnc> are wrong and defending their beliefs. It appears they have a
>>
>> >No ground shifts, Matt.
>>
>> Actually you are quite more knowledgeable than this and you know smoking out the
>> believers has always been one of my tactics. That you would claim this is shift is
>> to deny your own knowledge of my tactics. And you were claiming to know them so
>> intimately.

>I couldn’t care less what people believe, Matt – as long as they don’t
>try to force their beliefs on me.

>I am the Canadian star for Reshet, a somewhat religious Jewish net. As
>far as I’m concerned, these are folks who have just as much right to
>their beliefs as anybody else.

>I’ve also been discussing the possibility of providing hub service for a
>Muslim net – so?

It doesn’t particularly matter.

However, in smoking out the believers they have to face they are part of a
genocidal religion. It takes a bit of the sting out of their studied outrage
over what they imagine happened during WW II.

That is why they are leaving you out in the cold on this one.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:51 PDT 1996
Article: 52423 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:42:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 7:43:32 PM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 03:58:17 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> I see three
>> large rolls of bituminous felt _standing on end_ on the roof of LK I

>OK, I’ll bite.

>Why would the Nazis have stood the rolls of felt on end, just before
>this photo was snapped?

>”So that I can cling to my idea about there not being a gas chamber”
>is not an acceptable answer.

>After you answer that one, we’ve got a lot more to go through, Ehrlich:
>why there are invoices for “wire mesh insertion devices” in that same
>room, for example. Why photographs show smudges on the roof of the same
>room. Why dozens of Nazis and dozens of inmates testified to seeing
>Zyklon poured into those holes. Why they’re listed as morgues in all
>the camp documents but equipped with all the equipment needed for a
>gassing facility. Why the camp had an furnace system with sufficient
>theoretical throughput to incinerate the entire camp’s maximum inmate
>capacity, each and every month. Why the Nazis chose to dynamite these
>and only these rooms as they fled the camp.

>You can explain away each and every one of these things, I’m sure,
>Ehrlich, in one balancing act after another. All you’ll manage to
>convince me of is the fact that you have some reason to want to explain
>it all away, to ignore the big picture as you give one unlikely
>rationalization after another. That reason, I’m sure, is one detail
>which I’m sure you’d prefer not to explain.

>But, by all means, go ahead and finish this one off for us:

>Why would the Nazis have stood the rolls of felt on end, just before
>this photo was snapped?

Rolls of roofing material are placed on end. The material is unrolled and
layed out.

It is not possible to unroll it in place if you take the time to think about
it. Consider the simple problem, how do you lay it from end to end of the
roof if you are rolling it? Do you just sort of let it fall off the edge of
the roof?

That stuff is heavy. It is removed for use by grabbing the end and walking
around it to remove the length needed or, more likely in this case, the length
that can be moved around by the workmen with their hands. Again, it is heavy.
The weight of tar is a good first order approximation.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:52 PDT 1996
Article: 52433 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:03:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:10:10 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>>
>> It was recently observed that when the holohugger story changes it is those on the
>> other side who are accused of changing.

>Matt, you changed your story about Dahlman and his provider so many
>times that it must have worn out the phosphor on at least one screen.

Because I have no intention of leading him to exactly what he did wrong that
caused it to be shut down. It is very simple and straightfoward. It is also
very easy to overlook. He continues to overlook the reason.

>As for other revisions on your part – you’ve changed your story so often
>that a flip-flop wouldn’t keep up.

>I’ve got lots of proof of that in those archives. Ken McVay will be sent
>a code to access them and request whatever isn’t online. It should prove
>interesting to see your messages as they recycle from net to net.

Which McVay?

>All of those messages – and nary a one for you to see – until they go up
>on a web page somewhere.

>Dahlman’s page is interesting in NetSkunks. Yours is just as
>interesting.

Why the association of a libertarian oriented site such as mine with one that
has won a “hatesite of the week” award. Dahlman is right up there with
Stormfront.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:53 PDT 1996
Article: 52434 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH – A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:15:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:16:14 PM CDT 1996
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On 22 Jul 1996 12:56:24 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 22 Jul 1996 03:32:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> > No, asshole the Revolution. To be specific the American Revolution.
>> >Since you are apparently unaware of your country’s history why do you talk
>about
>> >it. To be perfectly clear:
>
>> > Willett’s expedition took place in 1777, It was a failure but it was
>> >supported by the French planters.
>
>> > The battle of Baton Rouge (and the lesser battles of Manchac and
>> >Natchez) took place in 1779.
>
>> > The battle of Mobile took place in 1780.
>
>> > The seige of Pensacola took place in 1781.
>
>> > The campaigns of George Rogers Clark took place in 1777 through
>> >1781.
>
>> > Please tell me which of this activities, all of which had a significant
>> >impact on American history took place during the War of 1812. Perhaps you
>will
>> >be willing to correct the history books that tell us otherwise.
>
>> And all of your dates leave us a long way from prior to 1776.
>
>> One would think that an American would have better sense than to lie
>about the
>> history of his own country.

> Giwer is telling us that 1777, 1778, 1779, 1780, 1781 are not part of the
>American Revolution?

> Valley Forge was not part of the American Revolution?

> Read any history book Matty poo.

>
>> Why are you trying to sound like a Canadian ignoramous?

> Having had his rather ignorant thesis disputed, Giwer has taken to
>denying the American Revolution. Amazing.

It appears you are saying those years are prior to 1776. What is your point
in all of this?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:54 PDT 1996
Article: 52444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:13:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:14:20 PM CDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:22:03 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> It is quite amusing that you folks continue to play with this issue when it is clear
>> from the Degesh publication that the carrier was wood pulp.
>>
>> There is no silica gel involved.

>Since you are acting like a child and repeating the same nonsense after
>you were presented with sufficient evidence that you are incorrect,
>perhaps the equivalent should be done with the evidence and yourself.

>GROW UP, MATT!

What is it that makes you think your primitive methods of pretend debate have
gained any validity over the years?

You have read the publication regarding the fumigant type and you know it is
wood pulp.

So far the ONLY source of a claim for silica gel comes from months ago when
someone claimed to have a copy of the patent and that it mentioned silica gel.
Of course this person REFUSED to post the patent and later it turned out he
did not in fact have a copy of it. He was in fact lying about it.

That is lying, as in making it up, as in personal intent to support the
holohugger position by deception.

Now get yourself current on what has been established here months ago and stop
trying to play holohugger. I have given you enough background material
already. It should be sufficient to get you off of the ground.

I can also put together about 3 Meg of zipped material if you would like to
read it at your leisure.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:54 PDT 1996
Article: 52445 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:25:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
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On 22 Jul 1996 19:06:23 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) whines:

> Jerkoff is a perjorative. Jew is a term used by the person
> addressed to describe himself. If you see it as perjorative,
> you have a problem.

>But Mr. Giwer is the one who put the two words together. The word
>”jerkoff” is an adjective that modifies the noun “Jew.” As Mr. Giwer
>admits the word “jerkoff” is pejorative, he admits that the phrase as
>a whole is also pejorative.

If that is the kind of English you folks are saying I should master, I am very
happy not to have mastered it.

If he cannot see this then he has the
>problem. But, then again, he has already amply demonstrated that he
>has little grasp of English usage.

In other words “righeous Jew” is also a perjorative in your mind.

Would you like to explain why your mind is so strange?

It is interesting but unsurprising just how far some people will go to
discover anti-semitism where it does not exist. No wonder folks like you are
generally considered paranoid.

> How would you like it if you were called a Jew?

>Depends on who calls me a Jew and how he does it. As the Virginian
>said, “Smile when you say that!”

Ask Alec Grynspan about the time I showed up at Temple only wearing a Talith.
It was his idea to tell of the story and I agreed that he could do so.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:44 PDT 1996
Article: 52460 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:41:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:42:26 AM CDT 1996
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:01:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[Letter from Oberfuherer Victor Brack to Reichsfuehrer-SS
>Himmler, suggesting to kill “only” 80 percent of the Jews,
>and keep the others alive for forced labor, while “rendering
>them incapable of reproduction”]

># Strangely, but not surprisingly, we know today that
># sterilization by radiation is one of the hardest things to do.

>Interesting! The Nazis have arrived at the same conclusion; they
>first tried using X-rays, and then reached the conclusion
>that it is, actually, not a very efficient method.

>Letter from Blankenburg to Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, 29 April 1944
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals –
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 723]
>————————————————————————
>By order of Reichsleiter Bouhler I submit to you as an enclosure a work
>of Dr. Horst Schumann on the influence of X-rays on human genital glands.

>Previously you have asked Oberfuehrer Brack to perform this work, and
>you supported it by providing the adequate material in the concentration
>camp Auschwitz. I point especially to the second part of this work,
>which shows that by those means castration of males is almost impossible
>or requires an effort which does not pay. As I have convinced myself,
>operative castration requires not more than 6 to 7 minutes, and therefore
>can be performed more reliably and quicker than castration by X-rays.

>Soon I will be able to submit a continuation of this work to you.

>

>Thank you for your (correct this time) observation.

NOT ONE SUCH PERSON EVER FOUND.

>-Danny Keren.

Unless maybe your father.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:45 PDT 1996
Article: 52464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:41:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 11:42:36 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 20:46:38 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> It is called WHOIS you stupid shit.

> I’m familiar with “WHOIS”, but not “WHOIS you stupid shit” – is this
>an alternative version that insults users?

>>If you do not like my making it available raise hell with NIC for their making
>>it available.

> Let me get this straight – you are blaming NIC for making the
>information available, but completely disavow your own responsibility?

>> Why do I always find myself among such ignorant amateurs?

> Well, you can never leave yourself – nobody can leave themselves…

Let me make it perfectly clear. Anyone with minimal knowledge can get exactly
that information. If you are accusing me of informing the dumb shits such as
yourself, lets get on with life.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:46 PDT 1996
Article: 52467 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!interpath!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Showerheads and such
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:48:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 11:49:33 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 12:27:45 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 21 Jul 1996 10:49:36 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>But were not showerheads found without connection to water?
>>>>
>>>> This is an old one but very a very obvious one. If lack of
>>>>connection to water is evidence of a gas chamber then every
>>>>abondoned builing in the world is a gas chamber. Copper plumbing
>>>>it the first thing to be stolen from such buildings.
>>
>>> Matt, please pay attention.
>>
>>> The problem is not just the lack of physical plumbing.
>>
>>> The problem is that despite the fact that we have the Bauleitung file
>>>of the architectural plans, throughout all the revisions, not one of them
>>>shows any plumbing for showers. Other plumbing – for water taps – is
>>>shown. Yet shower plumbing is not.
>>
>>> Do thieves steal the ink showing the plans for the copper pipes as
>>>well?
>>
>>> Yet there is an inventory sheet, also from those Bauleitung files,
>>>listing showerheads in a room whose architectural plans show no shower
>>>plumbing.
>>
>>> Can you find any abandoned building that has this problem with its
>>>architectural plans?
>>
>>> I have explained this before.
>>
>>> Try to stay awake this time.
>>
>> You have tried before and you have failed as usual.

> You have made unsupported assertion as usual.

>> Yes, I can show you many of those particularly where showers were an
>>afterthought. Any building prior the 1940 in the US is most likely in
>>that category.

> You are saying that showers were installed later with no plans, no
>paperwork, no orders for the plumbing?

> That appears to be the situation you are suggesting for Birkenau. Or
>do you think you can find such things among the Bauleitung papers? No
>other revisionist has been able to do so.

>>Showers and in fact daily bathing did not come into
>>fashion until the late 40s in the US. Given the lack of sales of
>>deodorants in Europe in the 60s that I am aware of it most likely caught
>>on later if at all. The US fetish with body odor is considered a
>>worldwide joke.

> Perhaps you could remedy your terminal ignorance and learn what the
>”Sauna” was at Birkenau. Or was that too a Soviet forgery?

> Are you consciously trying to be considered a worldwide joke? You are
>succeeding admirably.

>> Beyond that, even pointing to other plumbing in the drawings, totally
>>unncessary plumbing, belies your claim regarding the purpose of the
>>building.

> Not the whole building, just the one room.

> And the problem is, even adding showers still belies the supposed
>purpose of that one room as given on the drawings, which was a morgue.

> The corpses are going to take showers?

>> What is the value of any plumbing?

> Washing down the piss and crap on the floor comes to mind.

> But I am sorry. I keep forgetting. In the Giwer universe anything
>not mentioned does not exist. Since I have not mentioned that I have hair
>I must be bald. And what Giwer has not read has not been mentioned, even
>if it has. (Or even if he has read it, but dropped it from his highly
>unreliable memory.)

>>Beyond that I doubt you have ever seen any drawings and expect some day
>>for you to admit as much.

> I have seen some drawings in photographic reproduction. You are the
>principal person in this newsgroup who makes loud statements based on no
>knowledge whatsoever. Projecting your own intellectual inadequacies onto
>others is merely another one of your intellectual inadequacies.

> I do not claim to have seen them all; I am relying on the work of
>those who have gone through the files (Pressac and Van Pelt). But then,
>you make claims about what evidence is NOT present without having seen
>them all or even relying on anyone who has, so clearly you cannot object
>to what I am doing.

>–
>Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.

Lets get this straight.

I am not going to go over previous material that has been long settled unless
there is something to add by doing so.

I do not give a damn what you want to resurrect.

Every point I am talking to has been established, holohuggers be damned.

Is that clear enough?

If you have missed something, go to DejaNews and stop wasting bandwidth on
this NG.

I hope that is clear.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:46 PDT 1996
Article: 52468 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:40:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:41:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:59:22 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>What Giwer said is actually in accord with the results of
>Nazi science; castration with X-rays did not prove itself
>efficient, as the (later) letter from Blankenburg to
>Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler states.

>Poor old Giwer… for once he says something which is
>correct, only to shoot himself in the foot.

What I said, equally deficient in English fool, is that there is not one
documented case of it ever having happened.

No wonder you folks have our bowels in an uproar over this one.

You never realized it before, did you?

NOT ONE CASE of it, PERIOD.

NOT ONE VICTIM! Nothing more than your manufactured NKVD “evidence.”

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:47 PDT 1996
Article: 52478 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aaaw… suit
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:17:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:18:06 PM CDT 1996

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:38:23 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> > Anything, without the complete thread and all participants, is out of
>> > context.
>>
>> BZZZZT! Wrong, but thanks for playing. ANYTHING you’ve written is not out
>> of context, dear. Your words. Live with them or eat them.

>There’s sufficient context in my archives. It’s just that Matt is
>learning just how embarassing his words can be when exposed in new
>environments.

>One of Matt’s deep dark secrets is that he’s been banned for
>deliberately doing things to get himself banned after he started losing
>his arguments.

You mean like the recipe for BBQed chipmunk on the animal rights conference?

That is quite a good analogy though. Holohuggers are very like the animal
rights types.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:48 PDT 1996
Article: 52479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!hecate.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:24:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:25:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 09:44 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>> For those of you not not old enough or with short memories here is the real skinny.
>>
>> Before 1960 there were no “ethnic groups” in the US. There was only national origin
>>as in immigrant group.
>>
>> Some time post 1970 there was a “revision” (always evil) that found there were ethic
>>groups independent of nation of origin.
>>
>> There is no more to add. It is a recent invention.
>>
>> Prior to 1960 anyone claiming there was a segregation by other than national origin
>>would have been round of town on a rail if possible as they were all Americans. And
>>national origin meant shit save in cities like New York where it is still the most
>>obnoxious city in the country.

> Earl Warren wrote a little essay (co-signed by eight of his friends) in
> December of 1953 which, in the eyes of any sane person, would
> demonstrate you are wrong.

> Shoot, even Plessy v. Ferguson shows debate on the subject and
> demonstrates you are wrong.

Want to post it, idiot?

Or will you be happy with the pretension that is supports your position?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:39:49 PDT 1996
Article: 52485 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 01:57:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 6:58:26 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 07:02:58 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article , [email protected]
>(Mark Van Alstine) writes:

>>
>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Ehrlich606) hoots and hollers:
>>
>>> In article , [email protected]
>>> (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>>>
>>> >
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> >Here’s another one for Mr. Allen: The damp proofing material used in
>the
>>> >L.Kellers was bituminous felt (cf. _Technique_, p.202).
>>> >
>>> >According to the _Larouse Dictionary of Science and Technology_,
>p.112:
>>>
>>> Larousse!
>>> >
>>> >bituminous felt (build) A manufactured material incorporating
>asbestos,
>>> >flax, or other fibres, and bitumen, generally about 1/8 in (3mm)
>thick.
>>> It
>>> >is produced in rolls, impervous to water, and is largely used for roof
>>> >coverings.
>>> >
>>> >So where are these _rolls_ of “roofing material,” Mr. Allen? I don’t
>see
>>> >_rolls_ of tar paper on the roof of L.Keller 1, Mr. Allen. Do you?
>>> >
>>>
>>> I do.
>>>
>>> This is utterly amazing. I have just consulted the photograph, on
>URL’s
>>> previously provided by Jamie. And do you know what I see? I see three
>>> large rolls of bituminous felt _standing on end_ on the roof of LK I,
>and
>>> moreover, I see what appears to be a _fourth_ roll lying perpendicular
>to
>>> the nearest one. Or perhaps it is a _wooden pallet_!
>>>
>>> Of course, the photograph is none too clear, but I urge everyone to
>check
>>> it out.
>>
>>
>>
>>Obviously, Ehrlich606, the extreme proximity of your lips to the Troll’s
>>posterior has rendered you rather giddy. Perhaps you could regain a
>>modicum of your former intellegence (even for a only moment ot two) if
>you
>>stepped back and took a few deep breaths before recommencing lip-lock on
>>his butt?
>>
>>Perhaps then you will realize you have (and have had) little, if
>anything,
>>constructive to offer to this discussion and therefore aren’t really
>taken
>>all that seriously?
>>
>>Mark

>Uh huh. Does that mean I am right?

Obviously it means he believes you are correct. Why else would he drop to
this form of response? He is out of ideas.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:55:12 PDT 1996
Article: 36898 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: ONE Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:46:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:47:05 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:270 alt.politics.white-power:36898

On 22 Jul 1996 13:02:28 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

> “Someone pass the word to this slimey bastard mongoloid to
> stop harrassing my parents.”

>>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)
>>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)

>>If you think Ken McVay is harassing your parents, PROVE IT.

>Mr. Giwer does not prove things – he just spouts off with that mouth of
>his, without regard for the truth. He’s a troll – that’s all he knows
>how to do.

>>If not, retract it.

>Mr. Giwer retracts nothing – rather than simply desiring to be known as a
>liar and buffoon, he prefers to be known as a liar, buffoon, and coward.

>>Can your genius IQ understand that>?

>Clearly, no. (Which simply suggests that Mr. Giwer has lied about his
>”IQ” value, too.)

>Mr. Giwer has hearsay evidence that someone claiming to be me called his
>”parents,” who may or may not exist.

>Mr. Giwer has hearsay evidence that two telephone numbers were left with
>these “parents,” neither of which is mine, or, for that matter, remotely
>close to mine.

>Mr. Giwer has the Mathes declaration that Mathes made a call to these
>parents and pretended to be me.

>Using Mr. Giwer’s own standards of evidence as they relate to the
>Holocaust, we can conclude several things:

>1. The parents do not exist. Mr. Giwer already knows this.
>2. The telephone numbers are fraudulent, since the two accounts given
> of the so-called number are not the same. Mr. Giwer already
> knows this.
>3. Mr. Giwer, personally, lied about the phone numbers, since
> it was Mr. Giwer that changed them. Mr. Giwer, having
> changed the number and tried to pawn it off as “genuine,”
> already knows this.
>4. Mr. Mathes cannot exist, because the parents cannot exist,
> therefore Mr. Mathes, if he _did_ exist, was lying. Mr.
> Giwer knows this already.
>5. Since no parents exist, Mr. Giwer does not exist. But Mr.
> Giwer already knows this, for he is not Mr. Giwer, but a troll.

>Alas, Mr. Giwer’s “standards of evidence” are utterly worthless, just
>like 95% of everything he writes here.

>Perhaps that is why Mr. Giwer is so afraid to address the rather sticky
>issue of Dresden… his “evidence” is worthless, by his own
>admission.

>Perhaps that is why Mr. Giwer is so afraid to address his creation of the
>non-existent “Cambodian Embassy” he claims to have seen during the Khmer
>Rouge period.

>Perhaps that is why the giwerdly troll is afraid of having his writing
>archived, not only on Nizkor.Org, but DejaNews as well. He knows how often
>he offers up these whoppers as “true truths,” and he knows how easy it
>is to expose him for the fraud he is. How fitting that he writes for
>zundelspams and the IHR, how utterly fitting.

>Those of you without UNIX KILL files will have to be content with
>simply deleting his articles, rather than enjoying the luxury of having
>UNIX do it for you.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>(I’ll see you in Tampa, Sara, and Giwer’s bank account will buy you
>a Guinness….if, that is, the man follows his mouth into court. Don’t
>hold your breath – the pattern says he hasn’t the courage to face anyone
>under oath, let alone anyone armed with thousands of Giwerundian tomes.)

>But Mr. Giwer already knows that….

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

And with the admission of the person who called we all know you are a liar and
have made yourself so from your own post.

You are still in the slimey bastard category.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 09:55:13 PDT 1996
Article: 36900 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: ONE Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:04:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 143
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:05:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:271 alt.politics.white-power:36900

On 22 Jul 1996 13:02:28 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

> “Someone pass the word to this slimey bastard mongoloid to
> stop harrassing my parents.”

>>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)
>>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)

>>If you think Ken McVay is harassing your parents, PROVE IT.

>Mr. Giwer does not prove things – he just spouts off with that mouth of
>his, without regard for the truth. He’s a troll – that’s all he knows
>how to do.

>>If not, retract it.

>Mr. Giwer retracts nothing – rather than simply desiring to be known as a
>liar and buffoon, he prefers to be known as a liar, buffoon, and coward.

>>Can your genius IQ understand that>?

>Clearly, no. (Which simply suggests that Mr. Giwer has lied about his
>”IQ” value, too.)

>Mr. Giwer has hearsay evidence that someone claiming to be me called his
>”parents,” who may or may not exist.

>Mr. Giwer has hearsay evidence that two telephone numbers were left with
>these “parents,” neither of which is mine, or, for that matter, remotely
>close to mine.

>Mr. Giwer has the Mathes declaration that Mathes made a call to these
>parents and pretended to be me.

>Using Mr. Giwer’s own standards of evidence as they relate to the
>Holocaust, we can conclude several things:

>1. The parents do not exist. Mr. Giwer already knows this.
>2. The telephone numbers are fraudulent, since the two accounts given
> of the so-called number are not the same. Mr. Giwer already
> knows this.
>3. Mr. Giwer, personally, lied about the phone numbers, since
> it was Mr. Giwer that changed them. Mr. Giwer, having
> changed the number and tried to pawn it off as “genuine,”
> already knows this.
>4. Mr. Mathes cannot exist, because the parents cannot exist,
> therefore Mr. Mathes, if he _did_ exist, was lying. Mr.
> Giwer knows this already.
>5. Since no parents exist, Mr. Giwer does not exist. But Mr.
> Giwer already knows this, for he is not Mr. Giwer, but a troll.

>Alas, Mr. Giwer’s “standards of evidence” are utterly worthless, just
>like 95% of everything he writes here.

>Perhaps that is why Mr. Giwer is so afraid to address the rather sticky
>issue of Dresden… his “evidence” is worthless, by his own
>admission.

>Perhaps that is why Mr. Giwer is so afraid to address his creation of the
>non-existent “Cambodian Embassy” he claims to have seen during the Khmer
>Rouge period.

>Perhaps that is why the giwerdly troll is afraid of having his writing
>archived, not only on Nizkor.Org, but DejaNews as well. He knows how often
>he offers up these whoppers as “true truths,” and he knows how easy it
>is to expose him for the fraud he is. How fitting that he writes for
>zundelspams and the IHR, how utterly fitting.

>Those of you without UNIX KILL files will have to be content with
>simply deleting his articles, rather than enjoying the luxury of having
>UNIX do it for you.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>(I’ll see you in Tampa, Sara, and Giwer’s bank account will buy you
>a Guinness….if, that is, the man follows his mouth into court. Don’t
>hold your breath – the pattern says he hasn’t the courage to face anyone
>under oath, let alone anyone armed with thousands of Giwerundian tomes.)

>But Mr. Giwer already knows that….

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————

McVay is a known liar by his own keystrokes.

He is not now nor was he ever a US Marine.

US Marines uphold honor before all else.

McVay is a Queen’s Marine. They are malleable and have no honor as McVay has
demonstrated.

McVay is slime of the earth. To claim to be a Marine in any country’s service
denigrates the country he claims.

What country would in fact have a person like this as a Marine save as a short
term private who never saw combat.

But as I said, I can probably raise half the US marines to deal with this
asshole and with a little more effort I can possibly raise half the dead
Marines to deal with him.

McVay has fostered harrassment upon fellow Marines and as such he is no longer
a Marine in the US sense.

McVay had NEVER spoken out against this and slimey bastard is too
complimentary for him.

McVay has NEVER condemned the harrassment of my parents nor the people who are
doing it. As such he stands condemned. May god have mercy upon his soul.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 11:29:12 PDT 1996
Article: 52509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:36:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:37:10 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 17:24:51 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>Rather I would point out there is not one documented case of such a
>>sterilization as in an observed case of X-Ray destroyed reproductive
>>organs.

>>It took much longer than I expected for some holohugger to point out
>>there exist no examples of such “experiments” ever having been
>>conducted.

>Good Lord! Mr. Giwer, are you really implying, the Nazis could not have
>sterilized those they called “Untermenschen” using X-rays, because those
>rays destroy the reproductive organs? Are you really implying the SS had
>such scruples? Not even YOU would have such scruples.

I said there is no documented case that they did.

You are very deficient in your English language skills.

Either that or you are very stupid.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 11:29:12 PDT 1996
Article: 52511 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: another holohugger heard from
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:31:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:31:59 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Is there are particular reason why YOU have sent me four hundred
copies of this message?

It not, what is your explanation for doing so?

If you would like copies of them all I will be happy to send them to
you with a meg or so of attachments to each that is.

>Return-Path:
>Received: from sojourn1.sojourn.com ([email protected] [199.177.127.7]) by inews1.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
> id VAA11385; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
>From: [email protected]
>Received: from [206.75.111.23] by sojourn1.sojourn.com
> via smail with smtp
> id
> for ; Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
> (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Jul-15)
>Message-Id:
>DATE: 22 Jul 96 10:27:52 PM
>TO: [email protected]
>SUBJECT: Nazis ‘R’ Us
>
>Revisionists are camel flatus. You are a revisionist. Ergo, you are camel flatus. MmmMMmmmm camel flatus. You’re such a putrid blot of pond scum you probably don’t even know what flatus is. You are camel gas. Understand? Camel farts are YOU! YOU are the expulsion, the generous offspring, of rotten fruit eaten by a wandering desert bovine. Thank you for your attention to this matter. We appreciate your co-operation in rectifying this matter by removing yourself from this planet.
>
>
>

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 11:29:13 PDT 1996
Article: 52512 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:34:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:35:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:38:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># And all of these photos taken by the British to document
># the actions they ordered to deal with the deaths from disease
># and starvation that resulted from the Allied destruction of
># supply lines.

>This is a common “revisionist” lie: to blame the Allies for
>the mass starvation and death in the camps. One has to
>note that:

>1) There was a huge amount of food at and near the camps;
> it wasn’t given to the inmates. They were not even given
> water to drink, and there was no water shortage in Germany.

Fact: anything that moved was attacked and destroyed by Allied fighters. If
that did not happen, why is Chuckie Ferree so defensive about his liberation
role? Was he not one of those who helped cause it in the name of liberation?

>2) There was a very high death rate in these camps long
> before the end of the war. For instance, a letter from
> the SS Economic Division notes that, in the second half
> of 1942, 80,000 out of 130,000 inmates sent to various
> “work camps” (as opposed to death camps) died. This is
> long before the “destruction of the supply lines” which,
> according to the “revisionists”, was the cause for
> numerous deaths at the end of the war.

What does that have to do with pictures?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 11:29:14 PDT 1996
Article: 52513 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:09:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 11:10:47 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 10:56:22 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 21 Jul 1996 08:08 MST,
>>[email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>>>McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
>>>

>>
>>>> Should anyone be interested for any purpose whatsoever.
>>
>>> Thanks. I was wondering where to send that Nizkor contribution cheque.
>>
>> It is called WHOIS you stupid shit. If you do not like my making
>>it available raise hell with NIC for their making it available.

> Perhaps I should have posted your parents’ full address and phone
>number. After all, it too is publicly available if you know the right web
>site. Would it bother you if I did that? After all, it would not be my
>fault since I am only making available what others have already made
>available.

> For any purpose whatsoever.

That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were anything to
happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing you ever
do. I hope that is clear.

Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

I have in mind revealing holohuggers for what they are to the media and you in
particular. That should set you terrorists back a bit.

What should be a civilized discussion in a single newsgroup becomes the basis
for exactly the kind of terrorism holohuggers claim they risk but never
receive.

Your professed martyrdom is amusing but not believed in the least.

>[…]

>> Why do I always find myself among such ignorant amateurs?

> Stop looking in your bathroom mirror. Still wondering about that
>gopher mail from Israel, ignorant amateur? It did not take root access
>though you were ignorant enough to think so.

Now that was really clever.

Rather as to the gopher mail, the acceptance that it in fact happened while I
played dumb, supports you holohugging bastards being the slime you are. You
folks are slime, the slime of the earth. Not worthy to consider yourselves
human. It is good that you took to opportunity to admit it.

>>But you can not send it there. As last reported he has no tax exempt
>>status

> So you are saying that only what is reported here is true and remains
>true until something different is reported here.

It is true that a) contributions were being solicited and b) at the time of
the solicitation there was no tax exempt status. AG reports that is criminal.
Next question.

Is Nizkor tax exempt now? If not, the solicitation is still illegal under
Canadian law.

>>and no contributions can be passed to a person without tax exempt
>>status by any organization.

> Somebody had better tell the Salvation Army that their soup kitchen is
>illegal. I seriously doubt those homeless people have tax-exempt status.

The Sallies are tax exempt. Nizkor WAS NOT at the time time soliciation. So
far as is know, Nizkor is still not tax exempt making the solicitation
criminal.

Why do I not report this?

1) Canadians can deal with their own law

2) The longer it continues the greater the penalties

> If Matt would only get some facts before flapping his fingers he might
>be able to make a contribution here. But he’d be far less entertaining.

Is Nizkor currently tax exempt? What is their number?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 12:21:13 PDT 1996
Article: 36910 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Giwer’s “credibility” cannot be in the toilet!
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:11:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 1:12:20 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36910 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:275

On 22 Jul 1996 13:22:11 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote, to Matt Giwer:

>>For the record:

>> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
>> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
>> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
>> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
>> stopped spamming.
>> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>>flamewar.

>Retract at ONCE, Mr. Lewis! Mr. Giwer HAS no “credibility,” so it quite
>clearly cannot reside in the toilet (unless that’s why he can’t seem to
>find any). You owe him an apology – but then you already knew that 🙂

>https://nizkor.org/encouragements/
>https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>BTW: Nizkor humbly apologizes to those of you who find our website slow
>and unresponsive. After Mr. Giwer pointed out that we “didn’t know what
>the hell we were talking about,” we determined to improve your access,
>and continue to work towards that end 🙂

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, please
>redirect into alt.politics.white-power, an equally vapid dumping ground.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

A lying, libelous site that needs be shut down for the common good.

Is anyone missing his email address?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:15 PDT 1996
Article: 52519 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “I will … this weekend.”
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:17:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:18:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 15:05:22 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:24 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>:
>: > Now here is Mr.”McFee” with something else.
>:
>: There us no one inside McFly.

>Make it stop. Please.

Tell it to McFly.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:15 PDT 1996
Article: 52521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:47:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]xn5.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 7:48:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:28:48 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Excuse me but I was talking about the real Passover, not the post 1492 Passover fair.
>> When you learn something about it, get back to me.

>Try a little learning yourself, Matt. The basics of a Passover meal
>haven’t changed in almost 3000 years.

Potatatoes?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:16 PDT 1996
Article: 52524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer has definitely lost it.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:23:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:24:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:05:49 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Well – to those that I made my prediction to in Email:

>Has he lost it or not?

>Is my timing online or not?

>Matt wants to declare the topics of alt.revisionism closed because he’s
>lost every argument, has had his nose rubbed into the fact that it
>actually happened – complete with the mass gassings – and has been shown
>repeatedly that he can’t even do basic logic or science.

>Don’t pity Matt, although he is pitiable, because pity is a terrible and
>demeaning thing.

>He refuses to admit that he can’t have what he most desperately wants –
>to win at an argument thru superior ability.

>His actions are predictable.

>His skills, I regret to say, are miniscule to marginal.

>I truly regret it, because there is no effort required for handling him
>- only a willingness to be patient with his nonsense and keeping him on
>the same track.

>Others have learned this, so he’ll slowly find his efforts at avoiding
>the consequences of his statements less and less effective.

>His latest attempt at evading reality, by declaring his loss a win,
>should be ignored. Get him on track and require that he finish his
>vegetables – er – sequence.

>Perhaps he’ll learn to maintain a track long enough to conclude what a
>silly little boy he’s being for a purportedly grown man.

>This NG may be just what he’s always avoided – and always needed.

>Only time will tell.

Is there some point to this novice nonsense?

You clearly know better than this. You have been around long enough.
Did you really think I approved of your nonsnse by my silence>

Alec, you are very foolish in this one.

Get back to finishing up your contract and come back when you have intelligent
time to spend,

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:17 PDT 1996
Article: 52525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:35:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:35:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 10:24 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…

>>And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never threatened
>>a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.

>>All of the message traffic about the lawsuit had no basis in anything I
>>said, save for the paranoid.

>/begin cite
> Subject: class action lawsuit
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/13
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:33:06 AM CDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Is there anyone here interested in a class action lawsuit against McVay
> and Nizkor?

> I will be collecting these and forwarding them to an attorney who may
> be or may not be interested in the case depending upon the responses
> and the documentation supporting those responses.

> Please respond email.
>/end cite

>/begin cite
> Subject: lawsuit threats
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/17
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Wed Jul 17 5:12:26 AM CDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Where was the outrage when “Gord McFee” was the first to initiate that
> threat? Where was the ridicule? Where were the responses that are
> nonsense in either direction?

> No where of course.
>/end cite

>/begin cite
> Subject: in the manner of suiing
> From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
> Date: 1996/07/15
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: images incarnate
> X-Netcom-Date: Mon Jul 15 1:25:22 AM PDT 1996
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

> Also of interest is that there are six or seven contributors listed on
> the Nizkor site. Two of them are “co-webmasters” but certainly it is
> possible they are contributing defamatory material making the RICO
> conspiracy even wider and more people to be named.

> They should all be named.

> The joint and several liability under RICO for treble damages should be
> of interest to most any “contributor.” Of course if they can prove
> they did not contribute to the defamation …

> But then, they were only following orders.

> But then, the only reason I am leaving Nizkor on line is to accumulate
> evidence.
>/end cite

> Other than these you mean?

> [note to other readers that in each of these cases the subject line of
> Giwer’s in initialized with the cited post. In all three cases the
> subject line underlines his intent.]

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

That is correct, stupid shit.

Not one, not ONE threat to file a lawsuit.

You holohuggers are very stupid, not to mention gullible.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:12:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:13:02 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Jul 1996 06:29:21 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan writes:

>>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>> You have identified me as a troll.
>>
>>Yes – because you are.
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry abut that but this conference is a not a troll but a
>”take no
>>> prisoners” game.
>>>
>>
>>You already lost, Matt. Sorry, but your inability to see that is part of
>>your current problem.
>>
>>You miss the real purpose of this NG, Matt. Even many of the long-time
>>participants miss it.
>>
>>Think about it. Draw some thread shift diagrams. You should be able to
>>get the real use for this conference.
>>
>>BTW – your claim to be destroying it is foolish. You are doing an
>>excellent job of assisting in that purpose. The person who has done the
>>most to damage that function is one of the folks that you label the
>>”gang of six” and he doesn’t even realise it – yet.
>>
>>

>I am curious to know what AG thinks the purpose of the conference is.
>When I got here I thought the purpose could be to discuss and possibly
>respectfully disagree with others about this topic. I don’t think so,
>now.

>Person A states a position. If Person B can refute it, or reasonably
>differ, he does so. Threads should die or be left alone at that point.
>That is where I usually leave them. But what often happens is that Person
>A responds to B, B responds back to A, and tempers flare. The next thing
>you know it descends into a name calling contest, and then someone loses
>their cool and says something really stupid.

>The only reasonable expectation is that revisionists can state their
>positions, and conventionalists can state theirs. Absent extraordinary
>circumstances, polarizations will dominate, and no one will ever concede a
>point to what is perceived as the other side. In short, Person A and
>Person B are essentially commercials for their respective sides. Who
>knows, if there are lurkers out there — *if* — they might even read the
>respective web sites or even read some books. That would be something.

Well said and it is about time Alec learns the goundrules of this conference.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: get a real god some time
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:07:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:08:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:38:26 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> It was Christian concern that preserved Judaism in Europe.

>Really? In China? In India? In Japan or Africa?

Those countries do not have a fascination with religion as does the west. Of
course you know that.

What you do not like and will moan over is the existance of Jewish Bhudists,
Confucians and Hindus.

They are all partakers of the oriental smorgasbord of religions. They are to
some extent amusing in their character but you will also be amused by the
reverse of Bhudist Jews for example.

>Odd that Jews lived relatively well in those countries until the
>Christians showed up.

They still do. No change. What are you talking about?

>Considering the “concern” showed – It’s on the same level as your
>concern for the facts. They’d be a lot better off without that concern –
>and so would we.

>> They flatter themselves to think otherwise.

>Thank you for confirming 2 things:

>1. that the Jews never needed the Christians.

Of course they did in Europe. Otherwise they would be no futher than
Zoroastrians.

>2. That you truly struggle to maintain your unbroken record for getting
>it wrong.

You creative potential is diminishing.

BTW: I will simply drop you like McFly when you have nothing more than than
bandwidth waste.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 13:15:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:23:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:24:36 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 12:43:50 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) who claims to have no religion gives us
>the Bigot’s Creed:

>> For those of you not not old enough or with short memories here is the
>real skinny.

> Actually it is for those stupid enough to take Matty poo’s word on
>anyhting.

>>
>> Before 1960 there were no “ethnic groups” in the US. There was only
>national origin
>> as in immigrant group.

> Tell that to the marines. The Blacks were around. The Jews were
>around.

>
>> Some time post 1970 there was a “revision” (always evil) that found
>there were ethic
>> groups independent of nation of origin.

> According to Matt:

> There were no Blacks in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Jews in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Cajuns in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Pennsylvania Dutch in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Mormons in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Gullahs in the United States until 1970.

> There were no Amerinds in the United States until 1970.

> And on and on and on.

>
>> Prior to 1960 anyone claiming there was a segregation by other than
>national origin
>> would have been round of town on a rail if possible as they were all Americans.

> Sure. Jim Crow never happened. Quotas in major universites never
>happened. Restrictive covenants were never enforced by the courts. It’s all a
>fraud invented after 1970.

>> And
>> national origin meant shit save in cities like New York where it is still the most
>> obnoxious city in the country.

> Sure, Matty poo. Ever hear of Chicago? Philadelphia? Boston?
>Birmingham Alabama? The United States?
>
>
>
>> For whatever it is worth, what has been posted is true.

> For whatever its worth. Thgis is pile of shit.
>
>> Many may revile against it but only because it is true.

> Many will revile against it because it is idiotic.
>
>> Many will post against it beu only because it is true.

> Many will post against it because it is a pack of lies.
>
>> It remains true.

> Only in the twisted, bigoted mind of a drunken ignoramus.

> –YFE
Other than you being a total idiot do you have anything else to offer?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:07:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 10:08:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:05:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># The Degesh document SPECIFICALLY mentions the type used as
># a fumigant as using wood pulp. There were certainly other
># types used for other purposes. The book does NOT (at least
># as far a cited, meaning it probably does some place else)
># connect carriers to usage.

>So what?

>This thread started with one of the nazi-boys commenting on
>the testimony of SS officer Perry Broad, who described the
>Zyklon as small, blue pellets. The nazi-boy claimed that
>there was no Zyklon carrier of this shape and color, right?

This thread was started by me with a discussion of the mauve color that was
brought up in another thread.

>But there definitely was such a carrier: Erco. If you admit
>this, what is your point then?

The document specifically states the type used as a fumigant used wood pulp.
But you know that.

You folks have yet to establish the purpose of the ERCO carrier type or in
fact what ERCO is. And of course we know that silica gel is not cubic to that
is out already.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:03 PDT 1996
Article: 52577 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:51:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:51:46 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 1996 19:47:42 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>> Thanks. I was wondering where to send that Nizkor contribution cheque.

>Glad you brought that up, Dr. Mittleman… the funding is not
>handled through that address.. see
>https://nizkor.org/funding.html for the correct Canadian
>and American addresses for donations and receipts.

>

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax exempt status and
therefore such solicitation is criminal.

Or have you obtained tax exempt status?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52592 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:47:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:47:43 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 05:36:04 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> This time I said nothing about suing.

> Say a prayer tonight, Giwer. Pray that nothing happens to MacVay. Pray
>that nothing illegal is done to the Nizkor site. Pray that no one takes you seriously.
>Make those your prayers every night.

> Ask Tom Metzger what happens to people who make statements such as
>this.

As I said, pray that half the US Marines are not mobilized against him you paranoind
fool.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:45:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:46:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36937 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26013 alt.revisionism:52618 alt.skinheads:32624

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle
Rivkis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:40:47 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle Rivkis)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>>>This time I said nothing about suing.
>>
>>>No. It might have saved your hide if you had, because threatening to
>>>sue is strictly exercising a legal right, whereas blackmail with un-
>>>specified penalties is a crime. I’ve turned it over to your sysadmin
>>>and intend to turn it over to the police as well.
>>
>> Do you really think they are as dumb as you are?

>I think, unlike yourself, they may follow the law.

Law does not prescribe, it proscribes.

Learn.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52623 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is over
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:31:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:32:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 10:16:16 GMT, [email protected] (Stefan Schneider)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:
>> Only the holohuggers will attempt to continue this nonsense.
>> And the holohuggers are all very stupid.

>I already realized earlier that you are an expert in self-fulfilling
>prophecy, which so far is the only field you’ve prooven to have any
>skills.

How many more fields would you like?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 18:21:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A real dangerous organization
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:46:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:47:04 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Declaration of Principles

The International Third Position is a spiritually motivated worldview which
rejects the received
wisdom of the modern world that all peoples and cultures are doomed forever to
choosing
between Left and Right, Socialism and Capitalism. Based upon a sound knowledge
of human
nature and its interests, the Third Position does not seek an unviable
centrism, but a mode of
Thought and Action that truly transcends the sterile hatreds of the modern
world. The Third
Position, therefore, is the political creed of the twenty-first century. In
particular the International
Third Position supports:

The Primacy of the Spiritual over the Material as the base upon which
Europe will be rebuilt.
The upholding of the Moral Order within society.
Opposition to materialist philosophies including Freemasonry, Liberalism,
Capitalism,
Socialism, Marxism, Imperialism, Anarchism, Modernism and the New Age.
Opposition to Zionism in all its manifestations and support for the
struggle of the Palestinian
People.
Support for the principles of racial and cultural diversity.
Distributism: An alternative to both Socialism and Capitalism based on the
widespread
diffusion of property.

For further information regarding the International Third Position, please
send an S.A.E. (or 2
I.R.C.s) to

INTERNATIONAL THIRD POSITION
BCM ITP
LONDON WC1N 3XX
ENGLAND

International Third Position BCM ITP, London WC1N 3XX, England
Email: [email protected]

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer advances to the rear again
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:41:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]ex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:42:59 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 18:59:52 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 03:32:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>> On 19 Jul 1996 12:30:56 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> > You are so ignorant that its amazing. First of all the *Spanish* ruled
>>>> >Lousiana in 1776.
>>>
>>>> That was not under discussion.
>>
>>> Your ignorance is under discussion. That is part of it.
>>
>> Nor was your bullshit.
>>
>>>> Second, French citizens of Lousiana served at the battle of
>>>> >Baton Rouge, the battle of Mobile, and the battle of Pensacola. French from
>>>> >Louisana also served wilth Willets in his expedition. Further French from what
>>>was
>>>> >later determined to be Lousiana served with Clark in his campaigns.
>>
>>>> 1812 not the Revolution.
>>
>>> No, asshole the Revolution. To be specific the American Revolution.
>>>Since you are apparently unaware of your country’s history why do you talk about
>>>it. To be perfectly clear:
>>
>>> Willett’s expedition took place in 1777, It was a failure but it was
>>>supported by the French planters.
>>
>>> The battle of Baton Rouge (and the lesser battles of Manchac and
>>>Natchez) took place in 1779.
>>
>>> The battle of Mobile took place in 1780.
>>
>>> The seige of Pensacola took place in 1781.
>>
>>> The campaigns of George Rogers Clark took place in 1777 through
>>>1781.
>>
>>> Please tell me which of this activities, all of which had a significant
>>>impact on American history took place during the War of 1812. Perhaps you will
>>>be willing to correct the history books that tell us otherwise.
>>
>>>> You are getting desperate.
>>
>>> I am desperate only to find a period of American history in which your
>>>ignorance is not laughable. Don’t you know that people who are no citizens of
>>>the United States are reading your silliness and laughing at you? You are an
>>>embarrassment.
>>
>>
>> And all of your dates leave us a long way from prior to 1776.

> This is worthy of Tom Moran.

> The question was contributions to the revolution by members of various
>ethnic groups – as we think of them today. Your pretense that the fact
>that “ethnic group” is a recent concept changes reality is amusing.
>The definition can be applied regardless of whether the people at the time
>would understand the term. Do you believe supernovas did not exist until
>they were named by astronomers?

When people did not think of themselves in that manner nor did they act as
though they were members of an ethnic group, there there were no ethnic
groups. Beyond that, I am still awaiting what “groups” folks here are
imagining there were.

> Since the Revolutionary War began in 1776 and Cornwallis did not
>surrender at Yorktown until 1781, that is a legitimate time frame for
>discussing the contributions to the revolution.

> As Alec says, when getting creamed you try to pretend the issue was
>something else – ground shifting.

> How juvenile.

So just what were the ethnic groups you imagine existed? Want to play the
game some more by answering the question?

>>One would think that an American would have better sense than to lie
>>about the history of his own country.

> One would think that Matt Giwer would have better sense than to lie
>about the history of discussions on this newsgroup.

>> Why are you trying to sound like a Canadian ignoramous?

> Give it up, Matt. Your stupidity is clear to all here and your
>pretense that you have not been trounced only makes you look even more
>childish.

Yes, like a Canadian.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor, hate site of the year
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:44:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:45:37 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 03:44:45 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> >> On 22 Jul 1996 03:32:43 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken)
>wrote:
>
>> >> >Since you are apparently unaware of your country’s history why do you
>talk
>> >about
>> >> >it. To be perfectly clear:
>
>> >> > Willett’s expedition took place in 1777, It was a failure but it was
>> >> >supported by the French planters.
>
>> >> > The battle of Baton Rouge (and the lesser battles of Manchac and
>> >> >Natchez) took place in 1779.
>
>> >> > The battle of Mobile took place in 1780.
>
>> >> > The seige of Pensacola took place in 1781.
>
>> >> > The campaigns of George Rogers Clark took place in 1777 through
>> >> >1781.

>> >> > Please tell me which of this activities, all of which had a significant
>> >> >impact on American history took place during the War of 1812. Perhaps
>you
>> >will
>> >> >be willing to correct the history books that tell us otherwise.

>
>> > Valley Forge was not part of the American Revolution?

>> It appears you are saying those years are prior to 1776. What is your
>point
>> in all of this?

> I don’t believe it. Matty poo is really saying that Valley Forge was not
>part of the American Revolution.

> The point is simple Matty poo. You have stated that no ethnic groups
>made a contribution to the American Revolution. Specifically you asked what
>the contribution of the French in Lousiana was. You have been told. You were
>wrong again. Now go read a book, asshole.

I see what you mean. You are claiming that there is documentation of the
ethnic groups who specifically joined the army and were at the winter
encampment at Valley Forge. Would you care to name them?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 20:24:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:07:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:08:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:11:18 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> For whatever it is worth, what has been posted is true.
>>
>> Many may revile against it but only because it is true.
>>
>> Many will post against it beu only because it is true.
>>
>> It remains true.

>Thank you for confessing the lie.

>Because you have claimed it – it is a lie, therefore your words are a
>lie.

>Because the words are a lie, you are a liar.

>Because you are aliar, the words are not true.

>Silly boy!

>Now – prove your contentions.

>Use Giwer’s rules.

>And – oh yes – show the connection with the already verified gassings in
>the Holocaust.

>This *IS* alt.revisionism, after all.

Thank you for fucking up royally.

I have been told that I contol this NG.

If you think otherwise, take it up with them, not me.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blah-blah, Blaha
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:00:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:01:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:43:26 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

># Simply because he makes accusations does not mean that we
># ought to believe him-we need physical proof as well.

>As this is brought up: can you supply some “physical proof”
>that Dresden was bombed?

>There was a debate here, in which “revisionists” were asked
>to provide such proof. They could not offer anything but
>documents (of which they didn’t present one) and eyewitness
>testimonies.

>Perhaps you can help your fellow “revisionists”? Then, we will
>finally be able to understand what you people mean by “physical
>proof”.

>BTW, clever title! Giwer will probably say your IQ is 153.

>-Danny Keren.

Danny,

You are not bright enough.

Give it up.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52662 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moving right along
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:37:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:38:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:48:17 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing any place at any time can
>> we move on with this conference?

>Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

>This is alt.revisionism.

>Prove your contentions.

>How many repetitions would you like?

It has already been done. I have no interest in backtracking to make up for
your lack of following the conference. You know where to find it.

Do so and get back when you have done so.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52682 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:17:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 10:18:43 PM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:36:29 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) once again revealed his total
>ignorance about the very subjects he claims to know about:

>> What I am still missing about this construction is that given the
>> width and working from the buildings I have seen with this
>> construction, I would expect serious support columns down the middle
>> at least, not just the concrete weight but the snow load.
>>
>> At one point I thought they were going to discuss them but they
>> quickly became hollow with holes for the gas to come out and finally
>> the devolved to wiremesh.

>Ehrlich, is this “skepticism”? Mr. Giwer is not even paying attention
>to the discussions about the concrete support columns vs. the wiremesh
>columns. The two, as I’m sure you know, are distinct — except in
>revisionist writings when the author is trying to confuse his audience.

>This crap about the concrete columns becoming hollow and then becoming
>wiremesh is, well, crap. He’s being deliberately obtuse.

>I would think a “skeptical” person would ask questions, rather than
>make blanket statements about something he knows nothing about. But
>maybe that’s just me.

Except that that is exactly the progression of the discussion on this ng.

Perhaps you could provide information on all of the various columns in one
message. I would certainly be interested in reading it.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 21:56:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52690 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:42:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 4:43:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[To Hilary Ostrov]

># Dear Fatbroad,

>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>was his lowest score.

>-Danny Keren.

That is correct, jerkoff and Alec, if he is in an honest mood, will tell you
my opinion of such tests,

But then he has not been in an honest mood since he arrived here.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:56 PDT 1996
Article: 52704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soapmaking for fun and profit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:26:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:27:27 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

” SIGMUND MAZUR: I boiled the soap out of the bodies of women and men. The
process of boiling alone took several days- from 3 to 7. During two
manufacturing processes, in which I directly participated, more than 25
kilograms of soap were produced. The amount of human fat necessary for these
two processes was 70 to 80 kilograms collected from some 40 bodies … I
used this human soap for my personal needs, for toilet and for laundering. ”

IMT VII – p. 598.

=====

First off we note he “boiled the soap out of” which has nothing to do with the
process of making soap. One “boils the fat out of” of course. But of course
this could be a minor mis-statement or problem in translation as both are
mentioned in the same context.

But there is more. The process of making soap is to cut off the fatty tissue
and boil that. (Then to boil the extracted fat with lye, form into cakes and
cool. It is only slightly more complicated than that and those steps affect
the purity.)

But rather than cutting off the fatty tissue for boiling this person boils
entire bodies and in the process takes days rather than hours.

But there is more. He reports only 2 kg per body. Now here is a person
charged with making up for a war time shortage (and noting that a soap
shortage means a meat shortage not otherwise reported beyond rationing) is
sent cadavers that were close to death from starvation or in fact died from
starvation. At one level this may explain why he failed to cut off the fatty
tissue first but on another level it was hell of a waste of fuel cooking
bodies for days.

But there is more. Noting that lye is added to fat to make soap, one gets a
greater weight of soap than fat. This gentleman manages to lose 2/3rds of the
fat in the process.

Beyond that, it is an interesting story.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52706 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:30:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:31:38 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:47:48 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Actually, the story with Dr. Spanner is quite odd.

>The “Institute for Contemporary History” sent me, at
>my request, material which indicates that the German
>authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
>the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
>which is created when corpses are subject to a “mazeration”
>process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
>thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

>This is why Spanner was let off the hook.

>This process is probably what the corpses in the well-known
>”soap factory” photos were subjected too (one can see a few
>large vats filled with disfigured corpses, which look as
>though they had been submerged in acid; this was discovered
>after the liberation, in Danzig, where Spanner was in charge).

>Odd story, indeed; it definitely could use some further
>investigation.

It is fascinating that appear to be dismissing the story with the involvement
of physical reality (even though you have no idea what mazeration is) and yet
you would still cling to the “confession.” After all, all confessions are
completely true and can not be doubted.

” SIGMUND MAZUR: I boiled the soap out of the bodies of women and men. The
process of
boiling alone took several days- from 3 to 7. During two manufacturing
processes, in which I
directly participated, more than 25 kilograms of soap were produced. The
amount of human fat
necessary for these two processes was 70 to 80 kilograms collected from some
40 bodies … I
used this human soap for my personal needs, for toilet and for laundering. ”
IMT VII – p. 598.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52713 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:01:07 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 12:34:23 -0400, [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:

>>So you think the German government authorized him to make soap out of
>>bodies and leather out of skin? And you think the German government said,
>>OK, why don’t you use the soap to do your laundry and wash your body. And
>>you don’t think that is insane.

>Yes, in fact, the German government did want Spanner to use cadavers
>in the making of soap on an experimental basis. That’s why he was given
>a supply of cadavers. Did you think he had Igor digging them up in the
>dead of night? I don’t know anything about lampshades in connection with
>Spanner–I suspect this is some sort of bleed-over from the human-skin
>artifacts found at Buchenwald. As to whether Spanner used the soap, I
>would suppose that he might have–the proof of the pudding, after all.
>No, I don’t see anything insane here. There was a need for soap, and
>Nazis were able to overcome common taboos about cadaver recycling for
>certain cadavers, including those of executed criminals such as were
>supplied to Spanner (without going into the recycling of hair, bone,
>etc. of gassed Jews and others, another matter entirely not connected
>with Spanner.)

Save of course that no one has been able to produce any of it. And this woman
did not bother to take a sample.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT

4/30/81:
The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
Rachel Patron, who
claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
Soviets during WWII (and
you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis). Ms.
Patron goes on to
state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to Poland
she found a shed full of
soap made from Jews. Isn’t it interesting how these Holocaust
survivors can remember
seeing things that never existed?

And since the story was invented in the previous war, don’t you think there
needs be a touch more evidence than a recycled story?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52719 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McFlea
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:22:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:23:06 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

McFlea, McFly, it does not matter.

This fool clams to be in his 50s and has the intellecutal age of a teenager.

Beyond that, he is a greate defend of what he is incapable of understandiug.

After all, he is a mongoloid idiot behind a keyboard.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 00:13:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52721 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:28:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 10:29:33 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:18 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>Marty Kelley wrote:

>>On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>>
>>> Marty Kelley wrote:
>>> >I agree–reading Tom Moran’s writing will DEFINITELY give you a clear idea
>>> >of the difference between logic and illogic. Though not necessarily the
>>> >impression that Mr. Moran may hope for. You might begin by looking at a
>>> >couple of documents that address the history of Mr. Moran’s intellectual
>>> >dishonesty (or simple denseness): “Tom Moran and the Menorah” and “Tom
>>> >Moran’s Lies about _Schindler’s List_”. They are archived at:
>>> >
>>> >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/>
>>>
>>> Okay Mr.iznogod, there you have your first dose from those who
>>> insist on all things Holocaust.
>>>
>>> Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
>>> Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
>>> referrence in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
>>> (responses to main articles) which they omit.
>>
>>Mr. Moran, you seem to be saying that I have misrepresented your claims
>>and comments in the two pieces that I cite. Since you have never
>>specifically responded to either FAQ, I would like to know what parts of
>>your lies about the menorah or _Schindler’s List_ you think I have
>>commented on incorrectly. Please be specific.

>Is this the part you refer to? The one you say is not “specific”?
>
>”Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
>Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
>reference in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
>(responses to main articles) which they omit.”

>Here I’ll summarize its specifics.

>It states that Nizkor files are not orderly, omit some material or
>have it way out of order. I don’t know about these particular
>”menorah” – “Schindler’s List” files, since I haven’t checked it out
>as of late. But most of the time the files on Moran omit or displace
>the motivating, lead article, the files being mostly miscombobulated
>pieces of threads, a file on a lead article starting off with a
>response.

Again, you are surprisingly mild in your critique.

Referring to Nizkor and organized in the same sentence is a misuse of the
English language.

And then of course its HTML talents are next to nonexistant. But there is
both a web master and mistress on the jub doing their best.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:57 PDT 1996
Article: 52732 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:21:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:22:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 08:23 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

> The spiraling downfall of Matt Giwer continues. I crosspost this
> complete post over to alt.usenet.kooks with no additional comment.
> None is needed.

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>>[To Hilary Ostrov]
>>
>>># Dear Fatbroad,
>>
>>>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>>>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>>>was his lowest score.
>>
>>Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the reproductive organs.
>>
>>What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

It is good to see that you are interested in further advertising the complete
lack of physical evidence for your imagined evils.

Please continue.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52734 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:49:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 98
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:50:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 17:59:41 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax exempt
>>status and therefore such solicitation is criminal.

> Go on Mattie, cite the relevant laws. You may as well lose even more
>of your credibility (such as it is). Ken has infinitely more credibility than
>you do.

>> Or have you obtained tax exempt status?

> Watch Prince Myshkin blow smoke out of his arse!!!

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_
========
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Rock Opera
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 05:15:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 10:18:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:38:30 +0100, Jeffrey
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, OWEN KING
>writes

>>The Following is taken from a rock opera I have been working on for
>>almost a decade. This is the scene where Hitler introduces himself. If
>>anyone is interested in further postings or info please email me.
>>
>>HITLER:
>>(to himself)
>>
>> Government Is The Decadent Realization Of Man’s Pain
>> Those Who Control The Masses
>> Continue To Breed Their Rotting Strain
>> This Forces The Self, To Strike Out
>> In Anger, Yet To Even Realize This, Is To Place
>> Yourself In Danger.
>>
>> etc

>You’re too late chief, it’s been done.

>And now it’s Holocaust the musical….

Produced and directed by Mel Brooks no doubt.

After all, who else can get away with it?

=====

It’s the gassing, yes, yes, yes

Not the working, no. no, no

Eeney, meeney, miney, moe

A whiff of gas and off they go

Ho lo caust, yes, yes, yes

Not Ty phus, no, no, no

======

Goosestepping nazi women in leather. gelatinous masses of flesh, S&M,
the whips, the rifle butts, the dogs at the genitals. Everything needed
for a XXX rated porn flick. And right out of the Mel Brooks style
manual.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:58 PDT 1996
Article: 52735 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.censorship,alt.online-service,alt.online-service.compuserve,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Censorship by Pathway.com — Wimpy Mongoloids
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:58:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 5:59:22 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52735 alt.censorship:90902 alt.online-service:13619 alt.online-service.compuserve:7351 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1873

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:55:55 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

> ARTICLE FROM THE VANCOUVER SUN JULY 19, 1996 PAGE A8C
>
> Also reprinted in the TORONTO SUN – July 19, 1996 PG A6
>
> Copied from the Vancouver Sun Website – Mistakes and all!
>
>_ B.C. Internet provider is the largest Canadian site for racist material _

> Jeff Lee Vancouver Sun
>
> An international human rights group says a small Internet provider in B.C.’S
> Okanagan region has become the largest site in Canada for white supremacist
> and Holocaust-denial material.
>
> At least 12 groups promoting white supremacy and hate against minorities are
> using the Fairview Technology Centre in Oliver to promote their views, the
> Simon Wiesenthal Centre said Thursday.

> [A human rights group?!? SWC believes Jews are some sort of superhumans,
> though they have only lived through times of privilage — Vyshinsky]
>
> Fairview’s site includes two host web pages called Freedom Site and Skin-Net,
> which provide access to the pages of a dozen other similar groups. The main
> page of Skin-Net contains a large image of a Nazi brown shirt charging into
> battle against a backdrop of fire.
>
> The organizers of some of the web pages are connected to Ernst Zundel, the
> Toronto holocaust-denier, said Sol Littman, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre’s
> Canadian representative.
>
> Littman said his group is alarmed that so many white-supremacist groups are
> lodged under one roof on the Internet.
>
> “It has got more of these guys on it than we’ve seen anywhere else in
> Canada,” Littman said. “It is offensive. It is crude, it is Fascist and it
> mirrors the Strmer, the most infamous of Nazi newspapers.”
>
> [Der Sturmer, produced by Julius Streicher, and worthy of republishing]

> Littman wrote to Bernard Klatt, owner of Fairview, to tell him he didn’t have
> to provide service to such groups and that he may not be aware they are using
> his site.
>
> But Klatt said in an interview that he knows about the groups. Asked if he
> was concerned, he said: “Not yet, should I (be)?
>
> “I am aware they are there. I probably should go look at them.”
>
> Fairview acts as a local Internet provider to a number of legitimate Okanagan
> businesses and groups, including the Oliver Chronicle newspaper, Okanagan
> Cable TV and the Oliver Amateur Radio Club.
>
> Six groups, including the Heritage Front, the Euro-Canadian Defence League
> and the Canadian Patriot’s Network are hosted at the Freedom Site, which is
> run by Marc Lemire.
>
> The others, under Skin-Net, include such groups as White Power Skinheads,
> Berserk, New Order and Nordland. A preface page to the site warns the
> “racially weak-at-heart” not to go any further if they are offended.
>
> Last month, Lemire was removed from a Toronto Internet service after the
> owner received complaints about offending material.
>
> Ashok Calle, the owner of Toronto’s Pathway Communications, said he didn’t
> know Lemire had loaded Freedom Site on to his service until other clients
> started complaining.
>
> Calle, an Indo-Canadian, said he was offended by what he found at Freedom
> Site on his server and immediately removed Lemire’s access priveliges.

> [Mongoloid!]
>
> Canada has no anti-hate laws governing material on the Internet, but that
> doesn’t mean he should carry the material, Calle said.
>
> “It is not illegal to be verbally abusive. But that doesn’t make it right.
> Things like (Freedom Site) may not be illegal but it doesn’t make they right.
> It was something we don’t want on our server.”
>
> Lemire could not be reached for comment. [This is ofcourse a lie – Marc]
>
> Littman said the Simon Wiesenthal Centre couldn’t ignore the concentration of
> so many groups under one roof.
>
> “We found the longer you leave these groups unexposed, the longer they fester
> and the more they infect others and the only way to deal with them honestly
> and forcefully is to expose them to the light of truth.”
>
> Littman said he wants to see if Klatt will remove the groups from Fairview
> voluntarily before the centre takes any other action.

> [What action has SWC done other than having a big mongoloid mouth and deep
> pockets? — Vyshinsky]

It sounds like Nizkor’s version of free speech.

Perhaps Nizkor can host them as a gesture of good will.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:09:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52736 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:13:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:14:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:18:55 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># What I said, equally deficient in English fool, is that
># there is not one documented case of it ever having happened.

>Of WHAT ever having happened?

># NOT ONE VICTIM!

>Not one victim of WHAT?

>Your anger is understood – you sought to undermine the evidence
>for the sterilization program, by (correctly) claiming that
>castration by X-rays is not efficient; but you only supported
>the evidence, because a later document shows that the Nazis
>who ran the program reached the same conclusion!

>But have no fear. ZOG will remember your help and reward you
>generously. Hello, Ken! Please set up a condo for Giwer. With
>a T1 attached.

What anger.

Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by X-Rays by the Nazis.

Do you have a problem with that? Or do you have some names?

It is just one more example of zero physical evidence.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!news.clark.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:50:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 7:51:26 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 04:31:21 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> One of the pet hobby horses of the revisionazis around here is is
>”freedom of speech.” They not only demand it but ask for constant affirmations
>from others to their belief. Is does not matter, they say (and they are right) what
>the opinions are, there is a right to be heard. This includes endless complaining
>about their alleged suppression and the duty of all to support them.

> It’s too bad that they do not practice what they preach.

> Matt Giwer hates Nizkor. The reason for this hatred is obvious.
>Giwer is a practiced liar. His basic technique includes lying about what he has
>written. He does not regularly and with brazen ad hominem attacks. One of the
>reasons he is so often made to look like the amoral prevaricator that he is, is the
>existence of the Nizkor archives. They record his every word, his every twist, his
>every turn, his every desperate attempt to go off on a tangent. As a result he
>has, by his own admission, tried to curtail or end the Nizkor archives.

> His first tack was to claim that it was censored and the contents
>altered. He was challenged to show any posts that were either censored or
>altered. he could not.

> His second tack was to claim that certain of the contents were
>libellous. He was challenged to name the defamatory contents. he could not.

All of the above were of course done. We have been over this. Search
DejaNews for the details.

> His third attack was to claim that Nizkor was a “scam” illegally
>accepting donations. His charges were proven fraudulent as Giwer had not
>even done his homework. He had not the foggiest notion of what Canadian law
>required.

Are you saying that he has finally obtained tax exempt status? AG did the
research and found it could go to any tax exempt organization. But prior to
that the reason given for the second hand collection was that he did not have
that status. Has this changed?

> His fourth approach was to threaten lawsuits. First he proposed a
>class action suit, then serial actions for defamation. Finally, and apparently
>without bothering to even read the law, he claimed he was going to initiate a
>RICO action against Nizkor and all its contributors. His proposal was so
>ridiculous that it has become a running joke. Even Giwer now denies — dispite
>clear evidence to the contrary — that he ever threatened suit.

> Manouvers within the law having had no avail, Giwer decided to step
>outside it. In recent posts he demanded that Nizkor delete any reference to him.
> If they failed to comply, he threatened unspecified “penalties” compounding that
>clear threat with an admission that he was not referring to a lawsuit. This was
>coupled with an outrageous invasion of privacy coupled with a note that the
>information posted was “for any purpose whatsoever,”

How does it follow that I invaded anyone’s privacy when I posted the
information he gave to InterNIC? If he didn’t want anyone to know it he
should not have provided it.

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

a phony baloney charge
>that MacVay was harrassing his father (later proved false in all material respects),
>and a threat to “mobilize” half the Marine Corps to get MacVay.

Is there anyone you can report that “threat” to with a straight face?

> While his ranting might be dismissed as the ravings of a madman, one
>fact is clear. The purpose was to damage or restrict the freedom f expression of
>Nizkor. The shut it down because Giwer does not like what it stands for and
>what it says. This is exactly the behavior that the revionazis complain about.

> What has been their reaction? Who has stood up and fought for
>Nizkor’s right to express their views?

> The answer is simple. None.

What is Nizkor? Who is Nizkor? If it is a corporation, then at least it can
have the fiction of free speech. What is “nizkor” saying these days?

Rather it is a personal plaything of McVay who is out to use it for personal
benefit in some manner.

> There has been not a single remark, a single statement, a single
>posting, that noted that Giwer was violating every principal that they claim to hold
>so dear. Ehrlich606 (with whom I frequently disagree with but consider a
>gentleman) has said nothing. David Thomas (with whom I emphatically disagree
>but consider a gentleman) has said nothing. The rest of the CODOH crowd, who
>claim to be such keepers of the flame of free expression that they maintain a
>”thought crimes archive” not only have kept their silence but, naturally, they
>have not added this admitted attempt to stifle free speech to their “archive.” L’il
>Tommy Moran chortled over Giwer’s proposal for a frivolous legal action and
>asked for a piece of the action until it became a laughing stock. Although he
>has found time to lie about the activities of others, he has said not a word about
>Giwer. Lyin’ Al Baron, who incessant whining about how “the Jews” are after
>him has become a staple of a.r, is silent. The H*b*r synergy or Les Griswold or
>Marc Lemire? Don’t be silly.

And you really want someone to speak up for a name after that name has done
not one thing in support of the same thing for other people. And then of
course there is McVay’s support of Zundel’s free speech, any place but in
Canada of course. And all the crocadile tears over CODOH for good measure.

Besides, what do Freedom of Speech and Canada have in common?

> None have stood up. None have said a word. None have defended
>”free speech.” None have demonstrated that their attachment to “free speech”
>is anything more than special pleading so that some rather eccentric claims, often
>replete with blatent misrepresentation and venomous bigotry, sometimes so
>obviously fraudulent as to be laughable, can be published without opposition.

> As the Canadian poet wrote, it is a silence you almost can hear.

If silence has an echo, it must be named Nizkor.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chuckles old geezer (was: “Les…)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:28:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.politics:60368 alt.politics.white-power:36971 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26041 alt.discrimination:50902 alt.revisionism:52764

On 23 Jul 1996 10:53:55 GMT, [email protected] (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Chuck Ferree ([email protected]) wipes the oatmeal from his chin and writes:
>> Chuck Ferree wrote: doesn’t matter one iota, I’ll shoot Les’s ass
>> before he even gets his zipper zipped up. He knows it, I know it,
>> anyone with a little military time knows it. Chopped liver, Les,
>> chopped liver, pal.

>Calm down, old man, you’ll give yourself a stroke.

He has obviously already had one to be posting like this.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52767 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:52:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 7:53:05 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:

># So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
># response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.

>Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>[Documents on the Holocaust – Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
>NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi
>Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]

You might wish to check the validity of your source some day.

>—————————————————————
>One way or another — I will tell you quite openly — we must finish
>off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>Jew of Europe will have met his end….

For example, given the date, Germany had already declared war on the US. It
is unclear what future world war he is talking about.

>But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either, not in
>Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>the whole structure of the Reich…

And here the “liquidate them yourselves” is completely contrary to the usual
claims of the SS running the entire operation.

>The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
>have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
>[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
>everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
>poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
>measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
>connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
>with the Reich.

>

And of course these discussions, if they occurred, are completely contrary to
the usual form of the story.

When you review the validity of this source you might look into the audience
and such so you can get a better idea what this is supposed to be.

=====

Rather than add anything you have introduced something that doesn’t do any
good for the most common form of the story. It is quite strange that you
folks don’t have much interest in consistancy, or rather, that consistancy is
not a hallmark of the story.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:02 PDT 1996
Article: 52778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer is over
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:40:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:41:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 07:10:25 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>Has Giwer been nominated for Kook of the Month?
>>How does one go about doing so?

>Mr. Giwer has been nominated for some special recognition.
>Knowing how much he craves attention, it was the very least I
>could do.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

And of course McVay is running Nizkor for personal benefit.

It makes the sadist in him feel good.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:03 PDT 1996
Article: 52779 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben Compensation Sought
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:25:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:26:34 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 14 Jul 1996 04:00:07 -0700, [email protected] (Nizkor) wrote:

>Archive/File: pub/orgs/german/farben.ig farben.010
>Last-Modified: 1995/06/21

Note the source of this article. ‘

WHAT is Nizkor that IT can post?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:25:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:26:52 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 09:48:38, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )] [Mon 22 Jul 96 >20:45][Tue 23 Jul 96 02:04][0]*>

> mnc> Rather the opposite. It is “boiling” off (or whatever but
> mnc> going from a liquid to a gas and thus requiring the addition of
> mnc> energy) and lowering the temperature of what remains. So it is
> mnc> rather it is heading towards ambient temperature, whatever that
> mnc> happens to be.

>Nope. I made the same error – that the gas would be at ambient and
>carry the heat of vaporization away from the liquid.

>Untrue. The gas would be at its boiling point. The liquid would be
>at or very near that as well. The warmer the liquid, the faster the
>outgassing until the cooling effect brought it to the brought it
>back down to the boiling point. Unless external heat is available
>(yes, Matt, there’s plenty for the Zyklon) the outgassing would drop
>to a much lower point.

>This is so easy to demonstrate that I was kicking myself. Any kettle
>works that way. Slight increases above the boiling point can happen
>momentarily. That’s what makes the boiling sound – bubbles of gas
>forming at the bottom and rising to the top – but that’s minscule.

>Take the kettle off the stove and the steam continues until the
>liquid cools down enough. Some continues to “outgas” but the heavy
>boiling stops.

>Must I continue?

Lets start with the actual mechanics of it. The stuff has remained liquid due
to being under pressure. So the first thing that happens is that the gas
pressure is released and all the contents are cooled.

Then we have evaporation from the surface. The vapor pressure component is
certainly cooling just like it did when the can was opened.

The question then resolves to the thermal conductivity of wood pulp as to
whether vapor pressure or boiling dominates the outgassing, or perhaps better
stated, when boiling takes over from vapor pressure as the dominant mechanism
of outgassing.

Although we blithely refer to its boiling point as room temperature, it is
rather warm for that. It is also a higher temperature than Europeans kept
things in winter in those days. So for large fractions of the year, boiling
may not even be a consideration.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!worldlinx.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!nntp.primenet.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!news.ecrc.de!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:53:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:54:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52787 can.general:84305 alt.censorship:90926 comp.org.eff.talk:68223 misc.legal:20704 ont.general:47405 bc.general:49143 talk.politics.misc:413487

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:00:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> An interesting post by McVay. On the surface it appears to be
>honest statement, from a freedom lovers stance, but there are a few
>things that could use pointing out.
> Within his condemnation he singles out Ernst Zundel as an example
>of a “hate” site. Though there may be indeed racist pages out there,
>that would express the dictionary definition of “hate”, Zundel would
>not fit in as an example.
> Nizkor also carries links to oragnizations it endoreses, which we
>could point out have a “hate” air about them. The JDL for one, the
>ARA, and Jeruselem One. There are probably others, which I haven’t
>checked.
> Other than this, I commend McVay for his treatment here.

Again you let him off easy.

McVay is clearly a hypocrite. His works to avoid showing his hate which is
stronger than any he pretends to fight.

He is a sadist looking for people to hurt. He is into it very deeply. You
can read it in his every post.

It is because of people like him that the legends of the vampire, the wendigo,
and the werewolf started.

He is the kind of person the human race abhors.

May it rest in peace.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52788 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:15:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:16:39 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
>Krema I in Auschwitz
>[Quoted in “KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS”, p. 176]
>————————————————————-
> … The “disinfectors” were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
>Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
>hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
>inscription “Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
>to be opened by trained personnel only!”. The tins were filled to
>the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
>opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
>were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
>of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
>started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
>death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.

Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier used against vermin.

And of course the omni-present screaming for dramatic effect.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CNN live
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:34:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:35:58 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

This is all right off of the CNN Headline news feed at the bottom of the 6:00
am newshour.

=====

Spielberg has been awarded $1 million from some unnameed US agency.

But he has raised $40 million “mostly from his own money” “but he needs $20
million more” to “interview holocaust survivors” “to make it part of the
record.”

And this is all to “to make it an almost required social studies course” when
kids are graduated illiterate.

Your priorities in education may vary.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:53:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:01 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>
>>The Nazis also ran out of water?
>>
>>SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein, said that numerous
>>died from thirst.
>>
>>Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>>Panzer training school, about a mile away.

>”800 tons”? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to keep 6 or
>7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?

The usual librarian fantasy from Keren.

It is only surprising that he did not claim millions of tons of food.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:00:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:06:30 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> If I remember correctly SL played exactly once on HBO and did not even get the
>> Tuesday rerun.

>And it will be played on network TV soon, according to TV Guide, with only
>three commercial breaks.

A better deal the Lawrence of Arabia gets but not by much. Watch for the
ratings share.

>So what’s your point? Whether YOU liked it or not, whether YOU liked the
>special effects or not (and of course, you’re better able to judge than
>the professionals who do it for a living, right?) has no bearing on
>whether the film made money or not.

The point is that it was not much of a draw for HBO. I have seen one star, B
movies played more than that. Under Siege II is the most recent example.

However, the Academy Awards are NOT a measure of movie quality and never were
intended to be. After all, that talking pig was not released in a slow year
for movies. It was released in a year where Hollywood content was under
attack.

He got his Award because that same Hollywood could never bring itself to give
him an award for the kind of movie he is really good at. It is the Hollywood
pretension of being artists rather than entertainers that causes it all. It
is all ego.

Your adulation of Hollywood does not permit you to see the facts about
Hollywood.

Specific to the special effects, I can do better. It was very low budget.
After all, he was risking his own money on this. He is not stupid. Given his
normally heavy usage of IML, this was a joke.

>I would imagine you’re right that SL isn’t doing well in the rental
>department. It isn’t a film that really carries on TV (as I suspect the
>ratings for the network showing will be low as well). It needs the big
>screen.

Actually it is better on TV than in the theater as the movie throws away 50
years of technical improvements save for cinemascope. It even dirtied up the
print to make it like that. There is nothing “big” about the movie. It is
all small action of people up close and mainly talking.

I would not be surprised to find he considered throwing away cinemascope also
but found that not enough theaters were equipped to project it.

As to a movie that does NOT carry to a TV, that is any of the Star Wars series
or any of the Star Trek series, Jurassic Park and they are still doing quite
well. And they continue to do well in the network reruns even without
letterboxing as for Dune and Blade Runner.

>Now: the definition of a flop is a movie that costs more to make than in
>takes in.
>
>Please provide whatever documentation you have to support this.
>
>HINT: it’s already been posted here, and you’re wrong.

The point was, FLOP. I will agree that is an overstatement. Given the
relatively low budget it probably recovered its costs in theater showings.
That means is was technically not a flop.

But as a big money maker? Sorry, not even in the running. As for a moderate
money maker, not there either.

Remember, this is entertainment. There is no objective out there to have a
movie on all subjects. There is no rule to have Hollywood “memorialize”
everything. And it was not entertainment.

Of course there was quite a bit of Hollywood hype about the crowds and such
but that quickly died out as local media could find no theaters that were even
crowded for a showing much less lines and selling tickets several shows in
advance.

What you are missing is that there is an entirely new generation that has near
zero interest in WW II.

Fact of demographics, average life expectancy is 76 years or so. Ignoring the
bably boom and the boomlet, that puts the first cut median age at 38 years.
That means born after 1957. If they know or care about any war it is Vietnam.

Their curiosity about WW II and its events is near zero. So that did not
attract them.

So what was left to draw an audience? Entertainment value. There was nothing
entertaining about it.

Perhaps better described as, One man’s stuggle to maintain profit margins set
against the backdrop of WW II. (Remembering of course his wife’s statement.)
He is never in any real danger.

He has exactly one story telling element, personal growth. And that growth is
going from exploiter to caring about the exploitees, the source of his
profits. And I assure you, all the drama of that “growth” was exploited for
all that it was worth, i.e. not much.

You are invited to discuss what else there was in the movie for those not
enthralled the subject matter per se.

Perhaps you will learn something about storytelling in the process of the
exercise.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:37:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 9:38:09 PM CDT 1996
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On 22 Jul 1996 07:05:14 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>>On 21 Jul 1996 06:29:25 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , [email protected]
>>>(Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Allen, these items photographed on the roof of L.1 are skinny. At
>a
>>>>> rough approximation, the left two items are twice as tall as they are
>>>>> wide. The right items is fainter and blurrier, and looks about four
>>>>> times as tall as wide, but it’s difficult to say for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I helped a friend move recently, and we used a lot of boxes, but I
>>>don’t
>>>>> recall seeing a single one that was taller than it was wide. Much
>less
>>>>> twice as tall. Such boxes would be awkward to move, difficult to
>pack,
>>>>> and even more difficult to unpack.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say these items were boxes of roofing material. One quick,
>simple
>>>>> question: why would boxes of roofing material be so tall?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here’s another one for Mr. Allen: The damp proofing material used in
>the
>>>>L.Kellers was bituminous felt (cf. _Technique_, p.202).
>>>>
>>>>According to the _Larouse Dictionary of Science and Technology_, p.112:
>>
>>>Larousse!
>>>>
>>>>bituminous felt (build) A manufactured material incorporating asbestos,
>>>>flax, or other fibres, and bitumen, generally about 1/8 in (3mm) thick.
>>>It
>>>>is produced in rolls, impervous to water, and is largely used for roof
>>>>coverings.
>>>>
>>>>So where are these _rolls_ of “roofing material,” Mr. Allen? I don’t
>see
>>>>_rolls_ of tar paper on the roof of L.Keller 1, Mr. Allen. Do you?
>>>>
>>
>>>I do.
>>
>>>This is utterly amazing. I have just consulted the photograph, on URL’s
>>>previously provided by Jamie. And do you know what I see? I see three
>>>large rolls of bituminous felt _standing on end_ on the roof of LK I,
>and
>>>moreover, I see what appears to be a _fourth_ roll lying perpendicular
>to
>>>the nearest one. Or perhaps it is a _wooden pallet_!
>>
>>>Of course, the photograph is none too clear, but I urge everyone to
>check
>>>it out.
>>
>> Given the quality of the photograph that is as good an explanation
>as any
>>other.
>>
>> What at first appears to be a shadow of the nearest object,
>clearly occupies
>>an area
>>on both the roof and the wall of the building such that it can not be a
>>shadow.
>>Something laying on its side is quite reasonable.
>>
>> Also if you look at the “non-detail” picture you will see it is
>from so far
>>away that
>>perspective can not explain the differing thickness. Rather it would
>appear
>>fortutious for the purpose of the picture that the application of it
>started
>>closest
>>to the building.
>>
>>

>Yes, and if they were rolls of bituminous felt that would explain the
>different thicknesses very easily. Moreover, they would be placed on end
>to avoid lying in the snow and also to facilitate movement. I, too, have
>seen roofing jobs in progress.

And if I remember the article correctly the rebar construction method was not
the favorite it is today as water would permeate the concrete and rust out the
rebar. The solution for this came some time after the war when the bars were
simply given a coating of plastic.

That would suggest why this roof had to be waterproofed given that it was flat
and certainly there would be some degree of standing water under the snow all
winter.

What I am still missing about this construction is that given the width and
working from the buildings I have seen with this construction, I would expect
serious support columns down the middle at least, not just the concrete weight
but the snow load.

At one point I thought they were going to discuss them but they quickly became
hollow with holes for the gas to come out and finally the devolved to
wiremesh.

And another point about the picture, there is a supposed drawing, little more
than an artist’s conception” of what the completely building would be like in
cross-section someplace on Nizkor. It shows bermed earth up against the walls
while this picture shows none. That would be a further indication that it was
under construction at the time of the photograph.

And given that no one knows what a “mass extermination” gas chamber would look
like, I still hold the characteristics of the building are most in line with
those of a bomb shelter as its secondary purpose.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:53:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:54:30 PM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:10 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>Moran from previous post.

>>> Whatever Mr.Green is proposing here, whether it be correct or
>>>incorrect, is irrelevant. Mr.green’s practice is to put these ‘Hah
>>>hah, what about this’ type of thing up for consideration and yet fails
>>>to show a relevance that was and has been solicited in this very
>>>thread.
>
>Mr.Green:

>>Green stands pat. Moran made a statement about the relation between HCN
>>and cyanide ions. He didn’t understand that in solution the two are
>>intimately connected. Moran was babbling about something he didn’t
>>understand.

>Moran:

> Still no relevance to the study. No relevance to show that any
>cyanide compounds found at Auschwitz today originated from HCN. No
>relevance to the “local binding” the report mentions, which itself
>doesn’t make any connection to anything to show the extremely minute
>amount of cyanide compounds originated from HCN.

> “Intimately connected” Mr.Green says? Now what?

> The only thing conclusive from the report is that they found
>cyanide compounds in subterrainian situations, in Prussian blue stains
>and that higher traces seemed to concentrate in highly localized
>conditions, to which the report did not offer any theory or reason.

I suggest the answer is very simply in the fumigation process. Large items
such as mattresses once fumigated took much longer to air out as people being
in contact with them meant being in contact with cyanide while sleeping. Very
bad.

So they were carried outside and propped up against the walls for hours to get
rid of it. That covers the huge amounts on both the inside and outside walls
of some of these buildings.

Mattresses are a good place to start but then go into winter clothing, thick
and up to the standards of Poland’s winters, and certainly needing extra
airing.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:02:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
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On 23 Jul 1996 16:57:42 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never
>>threatened a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.

> You sure did talk a lot about a RICO suit, including asking if anyone
>would be interested.

Is asking a threat? In what manner? Or are you as stupid as the attorneys
here?

You are very dumb.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moving right along
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:04:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:11:10 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Now that we have clearly established there was no gassing
># any place at any time can we move on with this conference?

>Does anyone remember that fellow from Iraq, who was interviewed
>(by CNN I think), right after the Gulf War ended?

>The guy kept screaming “we won! That’s it! We won!”.

>How pathetic. How sad and pathetic.

It is all on DejaNews. Get over it.

There is no need to rehash history. Get over it.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:10 PDT 1996
Article: 52805 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:35:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:36:28 PM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:08:38 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:52:51 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Save the translation given is clearly an exception for the
>traveler, not
>> >> for the next door neighbor. Were I to bother to look it up, I would
>> >> expect to find it part of the hospitality due to strangers and this
>> >> being a statement that the Passover was not an exception.
>>
>> >Save that it was explicitly directed as a *RELIGIOUS* duty that may be
>> >partaken by the convert – or stranger to the religion who would wish to
>> >join. A stranger who simply passes thru would be shown hospitality, but
>> >would not partake of the religious component.
>>
>> Were that the case then the stranger could not be fed on
>Passover as it
>> was the only food that could be prepared on that day. As hospitality
>> meant food and shelter leaving the person unfed for a day is not nice.

>Obviously, Mr. Giwer has never been to a Passover seder, especially at my
>house (and thank goodness for THAT).

Why would not deny hospitality to a traveler? Why would not not use that as
an opportunity to attempt to convert me?

>Every seder I’ve been to has enough food for any and all “strangers” who
>might drop in. That’s part of the pleasure of Passover — making too much
>food.
>
>By the way… who SAYS it’s “the only food that can be prepared that day”?
>
>Mr. Giwer, the expert in Judaism?

Obviously rather more than you, if you are following the writtne rules.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:05:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80421 alt.revisionism:52813

On 23 Jul 96 11:06:24, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Mon 22 Jul 96 19:51][Tue 23 Jul 96 03:30][0]*>

> >> Matt Giwer wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The issue is that the “witnesses” were reporting it
> >>> as blue because of the German name for it Blausaure, blue
> >>> acid. It is clear from every available source that
> >>> the material available at Auschwitz had a wood pulp carrier
> >>> and was in no manner related to anything blue.

> >> Repetition doesn’t make things true, Matt.

> >> You’re simply sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your
> >> eyes and yelling “Not true!” – like a child.

> >> You lost this one too, Matt. Stop behaving like a child and
> >> prove you’re not an infantile mind like Moron and company.

> >> IOW:

> >> GROW UP, MATT!!

> mnc> As you know, I posted the Degesh publication describing the
> mnc> type used as a fumigant. You also know that you read that post.
> mnc> Therefore you know it was a wood pulp carrier.

> mnc> So what point are you trying to make?

>No – I don’t. You use a single document as “evidence” that nothing
>else is possible. Yet there are pictures with descriptions that
>contradict your conclusion. This is hardly rocket science!

>Repetition doesn’t make things true, Matt.

>You’re simply sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes
>and yelling “Not true!” – like a child.

>You lost this one too, Matt. Stop behaving like a child and prove
>you’re not an infantile mind like Moron and company.

>IOW:

>GROW UP, MATT!!

My friend, you should know that I know what you proposed against Dahlman and
that you would try to use them against me is like reading the game plan.

Rather simply you know that what I have posted is what stands. You also know,
with your expected integrity as an engineer, that you will not play games with
facts.

If you simply want to drop this, I will not mention it again.

If you wish to try to continue to make this personal to show you can “win”
fine but then I am not adverse to the game playing.

And I have tons of hours to clog this NG with responses to your claims.

It appears this has come down to an ego on ego. That is fine with me too.

I have nothing to lose. I have no ego in this. You are completely in error
thinking I do.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:23:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:25:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:48:01 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, “Duncan Coons”
><[email protected]> writes:

>>
>>
>>
>>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote in article
>><[email protected]>…
>>
>>> There has been not a single remark, a single statement, a single
>>> posting, that noted that Giwer was violating every principal that they
>>claim to hold
>>> so dear. Ehrlich606 (with whom I frequently disagree with but consider
>>a
>>> gentleman) has said nothing. David Thomas (with whom I emphatically
>>disagree
>>> but consider a gentleman) has said nothing. The rest of the CODOH
>>crowd, who
>>> claim to be such keepers of the flame of free expression that they
>>maintain a
>>> “thought crimes archive” not only have kept their silence but,
>>naturally, they
>>> have not added this admitted attempt to stifle free speech to their
>>”archive.” L’il
>>> Tommy Moran chortled over Giwer’s proposal for a frivolous legal action
>>and
>>> asked for a piece of the action until it became a laughing stock.
>>Although he
>>> has found time to lie about the activities of others, he has said not a
>>word about
>>> Giwer. Lyin’ Al Baron, who incessant whining about how “the Jews” are
>>after
>>> him has become a staple of a.r, is silent. The H*b*r synergy or Les
>>Griswold or
>>> Marc Lemire? Don’t be silly.
>>>
>>> None have stood up. None have said a word. None have defended
>>> “free speech.” None have demonstrated that their attachment to “free
>>speech”
>>> is anything more than special pleading so that some rather eccentric
>>claims, often
>>> replete with blatent misrepresentation and venomous bigotry, sometimes
>>so
>>> obviously fraudulent as to be laughable, can be published without
>>opposition.
>>>
>>> As the Canadian poet wrote, it is a silence you almost can hear.
>>
>>
>>All this is rather silly. No one spoke up because no one took Giwer’s
>>threat of a law-suit seriously. Such a suit would not have the remotest
>>possibility of success, as you yourself (I believe) have pointed out.

>First of all, I have not read Yale’s eloquent remarks before now (I can
>imagine his plea to the judge the next time I get a ticket for
>jaywalking), and that is why I have been silent.

>>
>>Your analysis of the motives of at least some revisionists/deniers might
>>even be correct, and absent our ability to read minds we’ll never know;
>>but the incontrovertible truth remains that they are often subject to
>real
>>censorship, whereas their opponents are not.

>Now hold on a minute. I did not raise my voice about Matt’s threatened
>lawsuit because I thought it was hot air — only somewhat less gaseous
>than Gord’s threat of legal action that dominated the board a month or so
>ago. If I had had any hint that Matt meant any of this seriously I would
>have urged him to drop the matter.

>Anyone concerned with free
>>speech is therefore obliged to defend the rights of those whose
>views/lies
>>are subject to suppression, not those whose free-speech rights are secure
>>from interference. And in fact by defending the former we secure the
>>latter and, hopefully, make the principle universal.
>>
>>

>OK, if I have missed a beat somewhere in here I sincerely apologize. As I
>recall, Matt started talking up suit a week or so ago, and I understood
>the basis was to get others to stop threatening him. Then some guy called
>his Dad, and Matt blew his top. I can’t say I blame him.

>Look — obviously there are many core-people here who disagree about a lot
>of things. But I can’t think of anyone here — offhand — that I would
>wish ill. Let’s be realistic. We are adults who enjoy arguing about this
>stuff. We really should not be trying to hurt each other.

But you miss the point.

The purpose of the holohuggers is to hurt.

These are not civilized people. These are animals.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:12 PDT 1996
Article: 52833 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:33:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 8:34:17 PM PDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:26:18 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> Jamie — I looked at the picture and I saw what I saw. Actually, Mark
>> Van Alstine should get the credit for telling me what to look _for_.

>In other words, you have no idea what rolls of felt would be doing
>standing on end.

Because that is the way it is done. What do you expect? That they are rolled
right off the end of the roof? The stuff is heavy.

It is walked off of the roll while on end.

Have you really never seen the stuff applied?

>> Do you really believe the Holocaust depends on how one sees this
>> picture? I guess so.

>Strawman. What I wrote had nothing to do with “the Holocaust” — every
>bit of evidence I mentioned concerned only the homicidal use of L.1.

>Do I think that the homicidal use of L.1 depends on how one sees this
>picture? Turn it around: I think that how one sees this picture tells
>us what one thinks about the homicidal use of L.1.

You mean that you have never seen the stuff being applied and therefore see
homicidal use where there is none in sight.

>You have shown a consistent approach to evidence in which you leap to
>conclusions contrary to established historical fact. Your eagerness to
>believe that the dark spots are rolls of felt is just the latest example.

>In short, I believe that how one sees this picture of L.1 reveals what
>one thinks about L.1. And in this instance, your biases are very much
>showing. You have suddenly concluded that the spots are rolls of felt
>and that they have nothing to do with the “four wire mesh insertion
>columns” — which we have written record of, in an invoice for L.1,
>Krema III. Nor do they have anything to do with the photographic
>record, the dozens of testimonials, and so on. You’re plowing ahead,
>blinders on, tackling one piece of evidence at a time, content with the
>oddball explanations that are necessary to shoehorn them into your
>world-view.

Rather it is very in line with the aerial photos which have nothing whatsoever
to do with any claim of chimneys or anything of the sort. No one can look at
those pictures and see anything but huge, irregular patches of dark yet you
folks insist they are the same as what is in the picture under discussion.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:41:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52838 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:50:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:51:25 AM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 06:50 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 22 Jul 1996 10:56:22 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps I should have posted your parents’ full address and phone
>>>number. After all, it too is publicly available if you know the right web
>>>site. Would it bother you if I did that? After all, it would not be my
>>>fault since I am only making available what others have already made
>>>available.
>>
>>> For any purpose whatsoever.
>>
>> That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were anything to
>>happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing you ever
>>do. I hope that is clear.

> It sounds to me like a death threat. The federal authorities
> considering extortion charges against you, Matty, probably won’t
> consider death threats highly in your favor.

Do you really think professionals are as stupid as you?

>> Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

> Uh huh. Tell it to the jury.

>> I have in mind revealing holohuggers for what they are to the media and you in
>>particular. That should set you terrorists back a bit.

> Please do. I’d be amused.

>> What should be a civilized discussion in a single newsgroup becomes the basis
>>for exactly the kind of terrorism holohuggers claim they risk but never
>>receive.

> Right. Didn’t this all begin when you posted Ken McVay’s address?

>> Your professed martyrdom is amusing but not believed in the least.

> Can you say “projection”?

> [tax law fantasies deleted]

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52844 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:39:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 11:40:29 PM PDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 18:59:22 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 17:17:50 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>>>For the record:

>>> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
>>> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
>>> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
>>> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
>>> stopped spamming.
>>> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>>>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>>>flamewar.

>>
>> With your trivial credibility on the line, I would not admit
>> anything either.

>”Trivial credibility”? Just what is it that you’re smoking?

>> You were used.

>Liar.

>> You have no business or authority doing what you are claiming to do.

>Liar.

>> You need to be cut off at the knees.
>> Patience. It will happen.

>Oh goody, another threat to be saved for my eccentric and deranged file.
>You’re in good company with the rest of the ranters and droolers.

>Incidentally, Ken, you really should have copies of the full blown spam
>reports on your web site – the cancels themselves are quite boring.

>They have messageids: <[email protected]>
>and <[email protected]>
>–
>”I can’t stand this proliferation of paperwork. It’s useless to fight
>the forms. You’ve got to kill the people producing them.”
>– Vladimir Kabaidze, 64, General Director of Ivanovo Machine Building Works

And now we have a self styled, ego driven defender of Usenet having the
temerity to call anyone a liar.

Just where did you get your “superhero” complex?

What should we really call you? Usenetman?

Keep all of these in your file, nerfbrain.

There will be a time.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Complete reference list (1996/07/23)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:18:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]non.penet.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:19:39 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52845 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26051

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:20:42 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

>>[email protected] (Anonymous) wrote:
>>
>>> Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust (CODOH)
>>
>>That’s http://www.codoh.com/ to those of us who can acronym.
>>
>>(The remainder, mostly neo-Nazi and skinhead sites, deleted to save
>>bandwidth.)
>>
>>Oh, and you forgot one important one:
>>
>>https://nizkor.org/

>Correction:

>http://www.anonymizer.com/https://nizkor.org/

>Prepend http://www.anonymizer.com/ to any web, ftp or gopher site that
>you don’t want them to have individual records on everything you access
>because of port 113 requests (ident.) Be sure that the title of the
>page includes [Anonymized.] It’s unreliable with sound or video.

>Nizkor is anal enough to maintain individualized ident logs.

Nizkor? No. McVay and co-conspirators are anal enough.

>May the road rise to meet you.
>May the wind be always at your back.
>May the sun shine warm upon your face,
>the rain fall soft upon your fields,
>and until we meet again,
>may God hold you in the palm of His hand.
>–****ATTENTION****–****ATTENTION****–****ATTENTION****–***ATTENTION***
>Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
>Please, report inappropriate use to [email protected]
>For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to [email protected]
>If you have any problems, address them to [email protected]

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:10 PDT 1996
Article: 52854 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:47:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:48:19 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:39:07 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

># But upon the last post on this subject, you do no have tax
># exempt status and therefore such solicitation is criminal.

>This seems like a totally idiotic statement.

>Can someone who knows something about these matters confirm?

>It is clear that Giwer is going down the tubes.

Ask Alec Grynspan who was good enough to research the matter and found it only
applies to those have tax exempt status. It was previously stated that it was
being done in this manner because he did not have tax exempt status. I am
only going by what has been posted here.

If that is in error, then someone needs to correct those previous posts.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 11:17:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52861 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:51:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-28.ix.netcom.com
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On 22 Jul 1996 19:24:03 GMT, [email protected] (william c anderson)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 22 Jul 1996 05:16:18 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>:
>: >I posted a detailed analysis of the passage from Exodus. If there is
>: >an error in my analysis, please inform me of it. (Hint: “ezrach” does
>: >*not* mean the same thing as “Leichenkeller”.)

>

>Um… this is interesting, and will no doubt be discussed elsewhere–
>but can anybody figure out why Mr. Giwer posted it in this thread?

Since you have asked so politely, the following was included in the message I
replied to.

>Prince Myshkin ([email protected]) wrote:

I reserve the right to reply to insults in any manner I choose.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 13:30:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:59:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:00:57 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:33:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Fact: anything that moved was attacked and destroyed by
># Allied fighters.

>And the most amazing thing is, apparently, that they hit
>*only* food that was delivered to the inmates, is that
>what you’re claiming?

It is unclear how you can possibly get that from what I posted.

>If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
>Germans?

Your only “evidence” of that is one picture of prostitutes. Why can’t you do
better than that?

>Heck, maybe these “revisionists” are claiming that the
>ever-so-good Nazis were giving the inmates kosher food,
>and that the wicked Allies had smart bombs that hit
>only trucks and trains carrying kosher food, who knows.

Strawman creation was never your forte.

>And, don’t tell me – the Allied fighters also sucked out
>all the water from the river nearby, and that’s why the
>inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
>you’re claiming?

In fact they bombed the power plant that ran the water pumps for the
purification plant. Do you have any idea what river water was like before
people stopped dumping raw sewage into it? Or do you suggest they should have
used raw river water? (“Just suck around the turds … its better that way.”)

In fact from the looks of them, that might be what they did.

>Why was there no mass starvation among Allied POW’s? The
>death rate among them was rather low; 3.6 percent of the
>American and British POW’s died in Nazi captivity.

Did you fail to notice they were winning? That Germans were not destroying
their facilities? Do not bother, that was rhetorical.

>You know why, Giwer? Not because the Allies someone
>missed hitting the trucks which delivered the food for
>them; but because the Nazis didn’t place them in the
>”sub-human not worth wasting good food on” category.

Because there were very few German planes left and those that left the ground
did not have a soft landing.

>Do you get it, Giwer?

Certainly. You have not the slighest ability to think through much of
anything you are saying. You further have no concept of war or the conditions
of war. You fail to realize that EXACTLY the conditions that you report are
the objective of war, to speed surrender.

And as it is the camp surrendered early because of the conditions and solely
for the sake of the people in the camps.

It is difficult to see whether you are dealing from youthful idealism,
innocense or ignorance. It is like you have no concept whatsoever of what war
is like. I find it difficult to believe you are expressing it in honesty.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 13:30:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52883 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A SINCERE APOLOGY
Date: 24 Jul 1996 18:55:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on4-17.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:55:27 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

I feel that I must apologize for my dyslexic rantings for the past few days. As
many of you know, I am a diagnosed schizophrenic with paranoid tendencies. I
usually take about 50 mg. of Thorazine for this. Unfortunately, my prescription
ran out while I was busy awaiting the Women’s Field Hockey Olympic Trials on
T.V (those butch women in their short skirts drive me wild and are
the only things that can counteract the recent paucity of my libido).

I am now back on my medication.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 14:52:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:46:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:47:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 00:40:20 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) writes:

>>
>>On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:45:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>wrote:
>>
>>>tom moran ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>>># So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in
>>># response to this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.
>>
>>>Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>>>[Documents on the Holocaust – Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A.
>Margaliot,
>>>NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi
>>>Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>>>Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
>>
>> You might wish to check the validity of your source some day.
>>
>>>—————————————————————
>>>One way or another — I will tell you quite openly — we must finish
>>>off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>>>again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>>>shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>>>Jew of Europe will have met his end….
>>
>> For example, given the date, Germany had already declared war on
>the US. It
>>is unclear what future world war he is talking about.

>This is a reference to a speech Hitler gave in 1939, I believe. The
>problem is that how can you use a public utterance as proof of a secret
>extermination program? But it must be said that Frank was referring to
>Hitler’s speech, and according to Irving’s latest book on Goebbels,
>Goebbels referenced the speech several times in his Diary to justify to
>himself measures that he was pushing through.

>>
>>>But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>>>be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>>>why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either, not in
>>>Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>>>Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>>>considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>>>find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>>>the whole structure of the Reich…
>>
>> And here the “liquidate them yourselves” is completely contrary to
>the usual
>>claims of the SS running the entire operation.

>Here Frank has in mind the bureaucrats who are dumping trainloads of Jews
>in the Eastern territories and they are not wanted there. Irving provides
>detailed evidence of their either being put to work or being shot.

>>
>>>The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
>>>have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
>>>[part of Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
>>>everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
>>>poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
>>>measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
>>>connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
>>>with the Reich.
>>
>>>
>>
>> And of course these discussions, if they occurred, are completely
>contrary
>>to
>>the usual form of the story.
>>
>> When you review the validity of this source you might look into
>the audience
>>and such so you can get a better idea what this is supposed to be.
>>
>>=====
>>
>> Rather than add anything you have introduced something that
>doesn’t do any
>>good for the most common form of the story. It is quite strange that you
>>folks don’t have much interest in consistancy, or rather, that
>consistancy is
>>not a hallmark of the story.
>>
>This talk — which was transcribed into Frank’s Diary and which was turned
>over to the IMT — is keyed to minutes of a meeting held, I believe, early
>in 1942. Of course, by this time, there had been promiscuous shootings
>going on for years. After the invasion of Russia, six months before, this
>violence had gotten worse, usually by the native nationalists who
>considered the Jews Soviet collaborators. But, Western Jews, especially
>German Jews, had been shot at the end of their rail journeys as early as
>October, 1941, again, usually with participation of locals.

>This is the context in which the Wannsee Conference was held. My take on
>the situation is that extermination was not set in stone at this point.
>However, by the summer of 1942, we know that 3,500 Jews incapable of work
>from Germany, Austria, and Slovakia were shot in Minsk. So we know by
>then that — at the very least — Jews not capable of work were being
>murdered as regular policy.

Belief is of interest but NKVD “facts” always vary with reality.

We have nothing but those folks for evidence.

Who dug it up? Where are the bones?

No where.

I don’t mean to play nasty about this but damn when are we going to get
physical evidence of any of this?

We have been over this here many times. There simplly is no physical evidence
to support this nonsense.

Just where the hell are those 31 million untracable civlilians from WW II and
why in the hell should we suppose 10% of them were shot or gassed or whatever?

I do not see what point you are trying to make here. There is simply no
physical evidence to support the claims. It is as simple as that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 14:52:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:10:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 6:11:23 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 10:20:55 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> And remember we have even been informed that the tearing agent was
>>>removed. Of course those who said it failed to note the date was years
>>>earlier.
>>
>> Wrong AGAIN, Matt. The indicator was removed in 1944. The Kremas
> ^^^^^^^^^
>>commenced operation in 1943. Tell us again about “years earlier?”

>Don’t you mean that the lachrymogen was removed?

1941 actually. It cut costs and they used all the detectors everyone makes
such an issue of.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 18:19:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52921 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Ken McVay
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:36:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 12:37:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:04:32 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> The caller identified himself as Ken McVay. Is that good enough for
>>you?

> It’s not enough for me – it could be someone playing a prank.

> After all, if I make a phone call and claim to be Bart Simpson, that
>doesn’t make me Bart, now does it?

But it turns out to be a fellow holohugger. They are all alike.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 18:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 26083 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: McVay, hooker and company
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 06:24:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37028 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26083 alt.revisionism:52940 alt.skinheads:32736

On 23 Jul 1996 06:23 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison writes…
>>[email protected] wrote:

>>> How about the sound of a hypocrite talking to himself?
>>
>>Is that a koan?

> I knew a rabbi named Zen Cohen. He used to say the strangest things…

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> [Sorry, I’ve been hanging out with Marty too much lately] :/

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:53 PDT 1996
Article: 52952 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lest we forget the evil
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:31:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:32:50 PM PDT 1996
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“They invented the following method of murder: Several Soviet prisoners would
be forced to climb a tree and others had to saw it down. The prisoners would
fall together with the tree and be killed.”

IMT VII – p. 582.

We are not informed what was done with the trees.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:54 PDT 1996
Article: 52954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:16:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <31F3[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:17:42 PM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 11:13:06, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[The Score -- posting stats, June 22-July 19] [Tue 23 Jul 96 01:55][Tue 23 >Jul 96 06:06][0]*>

> >>> You are certifiable.

> >> A libelous comment, Matt. You shou learn of the subtleties
> >> between libel and your own definition of same.

> mnc> So is most of USENET. You know that. What is your issue?

>No – expressing an opinion is not.

>Expressing something as fact, particularly after other libelous
>post, is lawyer-food.

> mnc> EVERYTHING is said in the heat of the moment and instantly
> mnc> regreted but the regret is not posted as that will be used
> mnc> against the person who posts it and, since everyone knows it, it
> mnc> is a waste of bandwidth to post regrets.

> mnc> Want to try again?

>Then prove that that specific post was part of the dozens of “heat
>of the moment” posts.

>Combined with threats to harass, libels of criminal activity…

>Matt, at this rate, you’ll end up trying to send messages via smoke
>signals – because the judgement will give half the NG’s participants
>a piece of everything you own!

And of course you would hold the libels committed against me, and the actual
in fact harrassment of my family are in a different category.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 21:55:55 PDT 1996
Article: 52961 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:48:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:50:00 PM PDT 1996

On 24 Jul 1996 12:58:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 24 Jul 1996 03:57:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>
>> > When did potatoes become part of a Seder?
>
>> They were named as part of Seder, idiot. Read the find thread.

> Whoever said so (assuming you are not lying again) was incorrect.
>Potatoes are not part of the ritual meal. Period.

That is what I said. And look at all the wasted bandwidth over it. Was there
a point to it all?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:25 PDT 1996
Article: 52991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:09:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 9:10:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:38:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier used against vermin.
>>
>ERCO is not wood-pulp.

>But – you knew that.

And you also know that wood pulp was the carrier in the formulation used for
vermin. What is your problem with that?

I have reposted both documents for you. You have presumably read them. They
can not be changed because you want them to read differently.

If you wish to post documentation as the to application of the type using ERCO
as a carrier (and what ERCO is) you are free to do so.

Until then, the documents stand.

Want to get back to the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:04:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:05:24 PM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 12:02:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[No historian has ever] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:38][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> mnc> Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the
> mnc> reproductive organs.

> mnc> What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

>Not one person ever cured of Smallpox by leeches.

>Pull your fingers from your ears, Matt.

It is one more example of the complete lack of physical evidence for this mass
extermination.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52993 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another word on Dachau
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:06:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:07:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 19:32:32 -0400, [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

>>The “Institute for Contemporary History” sent me, at
>>my request, material which indicates that the German
>>authorities studied the case after the war, and reached
>>the conclusion that the soap-like material is something
>>which is created when corpses are subject to a “mazeration”
>>process, and that the Nurnberg prosecution erred in
>>thinking that there was intentional manufacture of soap.

>OK, I have to admit I don’t get it. Why was Spanner being
>supplied with beheaded corpses? Was there some reason
>beside the bruited soap experiments to, er, mazerate all
>this tissue?

Obviously someone really believed the guillotine story to pass this one on to
holohugger mythology.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53002 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:16:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:18:09 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 11:59:04, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[McFlea] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:22][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> mnc> Beyond that, he is a greate defend of what he is incapable
> mnc> of understandiug.

> mnc> After all, he is a mongoloid idiot behind a keyboard.

>Hmmmm! So you admit losing to him as well!

Your continued harping upon an admission it at best amusing.

Are you ready to get back to actually discussing the terrible effects of
gassing such as the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing that it the effect
of cyanide?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:28 PDT 1996
Article: 53004 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:53:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 12:54:57 AM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 17:30 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?
>>
>> Have you missed the people who have admitted I control this NG?
>>
>> If so, why have you missed it?
>>
>> You ain’t jack shit.

> There is a strong philosophy of free and open speech here. But I
> predict the day is coming very soon where Matt Giwer will simply
> disappear from alt.revisionism forever. Very soon.

That is neither the first time it has been predicted nor the first time you
have predicted it.

Or shall I take this as a threat under the laws of Canada?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53007 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:19:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected].ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 1:21:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Just as a matter of general interest, there was an amusing post by an Alec
Grynspan, obviously not the same Alec Grynspan who is later mentioned.

So what happened is one day I got this rather violent complaint to me as a
copy of what had been sent to my service provider. I was being accused of
posting and a.r message to some very inappropriate conferences.

Of course I challenged it. He responded with a list of messages, save that
the one just before I did the “evil deed” was by Alec Grynspan. That message
however had been cancelled so he could not provide a copy of it. I was able
to provide him with a copy of that message indicating that SOME OTHER Alec
Grynspan was the one who originally caused the posts to incorrect conferences.

Now I have no idea if there is any connection but an Alec Grynspan here
commented that I had “fallen for” that trick.

Perhaps folks should consider whether or not I let it happen and kept the
message just so the blame would be applied properly.

But then it is just one more example of creating harrassment of me by
attempting to bring my service provider and people from other NGs into it
innocently.

But of course, despite all of the references to email, none of this is
organized or coordinated. It just continues to happen spontaneously. It is
qute amazing what happens without organization.

They are not a hate group. They all act as individual haters. But of course
it is still harrassment and they are all part of it.

Right Alec? Not a problem with Alec Grynspan answers. There are many
innocent and only one guilty one.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is over
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:32:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 2:33:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 15:58:48 GMT, [email protected](Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) writes:
>>
>>
>> The gassing is now in the record of ancient history. It has been
>completely>discredited. It is no longer of interest to any civilized
>discussion of what>happened during WW II.
>>
>> There is no longer any reason to even mention a holocaust as
>there was none of Jews>that is of interest.
>>
>> Whatever it was, its time has come and gone. It has no further
>interest in civilized>discussion.
>>
>> Only the holohuggers will attempt to continue this nonsense.
>>
>> And the holohuggers are all very stupid.

>Matt, if it’s not of interest to anyone of intellegence, why are YOU
>posting about ad nauseum? Your lack of human campassion is
>astonishing.

It is good to see you are faking being shocked.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:30 PDT 1996
Article: 53011 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]m (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:43:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:44:29 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 22:13:00 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> However, in smoking out the believers they have to face they are
> part of a genocidal religion.

>All that Mr. Giwer has established is that the Hebrew Scriptures
>mention events that Mr. Giwer characterizes as genocide. These
>allegedly genocidal events occured several millenia B.C. and are
>corroborated by no other source. Yet, Mr. Giwer is pleased to
>characterize the Jewish religion as a “genocidal religion.”

Should I disagree with the believers on their own subject?

>On the other hand, Mr. Giwer is pleased to characterize the Holocaust
>as old news that the victims ought to have gotten over by now!

If they would stop dwelling on it people will stop remembering being gassed
six times and the like. Creating memories like that certainly can not be
considered a healthy thing to do.

>But, as everyone here knows, even Mr. Giwer does not believe this
>line! He only posts it because he knows it is provocative and he
>hopes it will provoke an angry reaction to feed his sick needs.

And no one else in this conference posts anything provocative. Are you sure
you know what conference you are in?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:31 PDT 1996
Article: 53013 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days…
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:51:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:52:39 PM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 11:52:57 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>I know, I know! There’s the AG’s office in the state of residence of
>>the person committing extortion, and there’s the FBI. And there’s
>>also the Department of State, come to think of it.

>Close – try the United States Attorney and the FBI (Tampa), rather than
>the State AG. They seem to take a very dim view of international extortion.

>..which reminds me… I’m flying south on business tomorrow, to speak with
>some folks who find Mr. Giwer’s articles of more than casual interest, and
>may not have access for a few days – I’ll catch up on my email from the
>hotel, once I get settled.

Golly. And I am worth such an expense. A telephone will not do.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53016 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:15:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:16:31 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 22:05:42 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>says…

>>#Not quite correct.. he did, after all, manage to use the word
>>#”Mongoloid” twice in the same week. Surely that’s worth something?

>>The real scarey part is I think I am starting to understand Giwerish.

>Pre-, Full-, or Post-Hootch?

>PS – I may have been incorrect – “Mongoloid” may have been employed thrice.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Alec, another opinion if you would. This use of this particular mantra has
been described by holohuggers having resulted from a mutual agreement arrived
at by email. Under Canadian law, does that comprise a conspiracy?

We can go into the purpose they gave for adopting it later.

=====

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53017 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:12:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 8:13:40 PM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:42:51 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> You are invited to discuss what else there was in the movie for
>>those not
>> enthralled the subject matter per se.

>Well, thank you for the kind invitation, Mr. Giwer.
>
>There were quite a number of things to hold the audience’s interest:
>
>A remarkable acting job by Ralph Fiennes.
>
>A remarkable acting job by Liam Neeson.
>
>An excellent acting job by Ben Kingsley.

And what did you find remarkable to excellent about them? The range of
emotion? The difficulty of the roles?

>A moving story about what does (or does not) motivate someone to care and
>get involved.

You mean money? Or just what did you see?

>A hauntingly beautiful musical score.

Hum a few bars.

>There’s lots more, but it’s late and I have better things to do than
>debate these kinds of subjective things. _You_ may not think the special
>effects were anything special. _I_ don’t believe you are qualified to
>comment.

As I said, I can do better with Photoshop. That is more than clear enough.

=====

You say the above was good but you fail to describe what was good about them.
Was it the range of emotion? What it the characterization? What was
“difficult” about the roles that made the performances noteworthy?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:33 PDT 1996
Article: 53029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:13:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 9:15:14 PM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37057 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26109 alt.revisionism:53029 alt.skinheads:32778

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:46:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 20:09:10 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> >”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt
>Giwer)
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds very familiar, fatbroad.
>
>Then why do you not take your own advice, Mr. Giwer and put up or shut up.
>
>A statement like “Ken McVay harassed my parents” is crying out for proof
>– especially when Andrew Mathis has already confessed and apologised for
>calling your parents.
>
>(Although there is *no* evidence of _harassment_ in Mr. Mathis’ apology,
>nor in his detailed description of his phone call.)

Sure. I get the second hand message that McVay knows their phone number and
therefore address.

>So where is your apology to Mr. McVay?
>
>Where is your apology to me?
>
>And honestly, Mr. Giwer, don’t you think demeaning comments like
>”fatbroad” only make you look even more childish and petulant? Why make
>yourself a laughing stock? Not getting enough at home?

Yes, fatbroad, a matter I corrected the instant I received the email. Now of
one of the McVays has an issue with the accusation he knows who to deal with.
It is certainly not me.

But at this point I do not know what the truth might be. I do know that a Ken
McVay called them. What this Mathis character has to do with it, I have no
idea other than what was in the message, if it was from his at all.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:34 PDT 1996
Article: 53031 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:48:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 112
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 8:49:32 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:27:52 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## If not, how come there was no starvation among the local
>## Germans?

># Your only “evidence” of that is one picture of prostitutes.

>Not prostitutes, but women who were employed by the SS.

When I first asked about this there was a claim there were women in the SS.
It was explained they were hired low life women from the town and one of the
descriptions that was given of them was prostitute.

Simply because you do not like the obvious sex for food explanation for their
condition does not mean the original explanation of where those women came
>from has ceased to exist.

>Name one SS-man or one SS-woman in the camps who starved
>to death. One.

If that is to be the game, name some inmates who did.

>## And, don’t tell me – the Allied fighters also sucked out
>## all the water from the river nearby, and that’s why the
>## inmated were not given any water to drink? Is this what
>## you’re claiming?

># In fact they bombed the power plant that ran the water
># pumps for the purification plant.

>You really think these lame-brained excuses are convincing
>anyone but nazi-boys?

It happened. Is there some reason you think that a perjorative response will
change that?

>The Brits set up, very quickly, a system to bring water
>into the camp. They used only equipment they found there.

Closer to the truth is the Encyclopaedia Judaica, which maintains that 37,000
perished in the
camp before the British takeover, and another 14,000 afterwards.

“Bergen-Belsen,” Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971), vol. 4, pp. 610-612

It is not clear from my reference what these additional 14,000 died of while
in the custody of the British.

But rather than going over how quickly was quickly, while the Brits were
working they were not being bombed and straffed. That sort of thing does
strongly impact ones work ethic.

>Are you seriously claiming that, for such a long time,
>the Nazis couldn’t have water brought to the camp?

However in this case “long time” means less than a week as that is the
survival time without water at the outside. If people are not in good shape
or ill, two or three days can do it.

>The Brits used the river’s water. They were fit to drink.

And who told you that one? Or did you make it up yourself?

>The question remains, why, in *all* these camps, not just
>Belsen, did so many people die, while either Germans nor
>other prisoners – such as Allied POW’s – didn’t die?

You mean the encyclopedia got the 14,000 wrong? Were the Brits that bad?

>Even Kramer didn’t resort to such insane excuses. He said
>that he was not allowed to get food from the Whermacht
>barracks.

Was the Wehrmacht to starve? Or did he have authority to take it? But where
were those 800 tonnes of food that the British took?

BTW: It appears there are other people who agree that conditions deteriorated
rapidly towards the end of the war.

=====

Until late 1944 conditions were generally better than in other concentration
camps. Marika Frank Abrams, a Jewish woman from Hungary, was transferred from
Auschwitz in 1944. Years later she recalled her arrival at Belsen: “… We
were each given two blankets and a dish. There was running water and latrines.
We were given food that was edible and didn’t have to stand for hours to be
counted. The conditions were so superior to Auschwitz we felt we were
practically in a sanitarium.”

Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: NAL, 1981), p. 190

=====

During the final months of the war, tens of thousands of Jews were evacuated
to Belsen from Auschwitz and other eastern camps threatened by the advancing
Soviets. Belsen became severely overcrowded as the number of inmates increased
>from 15,000 in December 1944 to 42,000 at the beginning of March 1945, and
more than 50,000 a month later.

Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 4, p. 610; Gedenkbuch: Opfer der Verfolgung der
Juden unter der nationsozialistischen Gewaltherrschaft (Koblenz: Bundesarchiv,
1986; 2 vols.), pp.1761-1762.

You apparently have a very limited knowledge of the subject and of the
conditions of war in general and this war in particular.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53034 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:44:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:45:16 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:06:46 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?

>Matt, we ALL know your rules, you’ve stated them often enough.
>
>IN case you need a reminder:
>
>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)
>
>And in case anyone else has forgotten:

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer.matt/

>Sara

>–
>”A perfect writer would make words sing, dance, kiss, do the male and female act, bear children, weep, bleed, rage, steal, stab, fire cannon, steer ships, sack cities, charge with cavalry or infantry, or do any thing, that man or woman or the natural powers can do.”
> Walt Whitman

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53035 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:53:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:55:10 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by
># X-Rays by the Nazis.

>Just for the record, how do you know this? I will try
>and consult some sources to see if, indeed, no such
>person was found.

>Considering that the experiments took place in Auschwitz,
>it is very possible that no one was found; I don’t know,
>and I will try to find out.

Perhaps you will find the X-Ray machine at least?

>Moreover, the Nazi doctors arrived at the conclusion
>that the method didn’t work that well, and that surgical
>castration is better.

None of that kind found either.

>But this is not the major issue; the major issue is that
>a leading Nazi official, Oberfuehrer Victor Brack, asked
>that not *all* Jews be killed, but that 20-30 percent will
>be spared and used for slave labor, after being sterilized.

So where are they among the survivors?

>This is the main point, and it’s a document, which,
>apparently, “revisionists” now acknowledge to fall within
>the realm of physical evidence.

I speak only for myself. I am still looking for real physical evidence that
it actually happened.

># It is just one more example of zero physical evidence.

>Just as “revisionists” can provide no physical evidence
>that Dresden was ever bombed.

Your adamant pretense not to be able to see the difference does not mean there
is no difference.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53039 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:49:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 163
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 12:50:52 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 21:48:49 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) writes:

>in response to comments by Ehrlich606, here:
>>>>
>>>This talk — which was transcribed into Frank’s Diary and which was
>turned
>>>over to the IMT — is keyed to minutes of a meeting held, I believe,
>early
>>>in 1942. Of course, by this time, there had been promiscuous shootings
>>>going on for years. After the invasion of Russia, six months before,
>this
>>>violence had gotten worse, usually by the native nationalists who
>>>considered the Jews Soviet collaborators. But, Western Jews, especially
>>>German Jews, had been shot at the end of their rail journeys as early as
>>>October, 1941, again, usually with participation of locals.
>>
>>>This is the context in which the Wannsee Conference was held. My take
>on
>>>the situation is that extermination was not set in stone at this point.
>>>However, by the summer of 1942, we know that 3,500 Jews incapable of
>work
>>>from Germany, Austria, and Slovakia were shot in Minsk. So we know by
>>>then that — at the very least — Jews not capable of work were being
>>>murdered as regular policy.
>>
>> Belief is of interest but NKVD “facts” always vary with reality.
>>
>> We have nothing but those folks for evidence.
>>
>> Who dug it up? Where are the bones?
>>
>> No where.
>>
>> I don’t mean to play nasty about this but damn when are we going
>to get
>>physical evidence of any of this?
>>
>> We have been over this here many times. There simplly is no
>physical
>>evidence
>>to support this nonsense.
>>
>> Just where the hell are those 31 million untracable civlilians
>from WW II
>>and
>>why in the hell should we suppose 10% of them were shot or gassed or
>>whatever?
>>
>>
>> I do not see what point you are trying to make here. There is
>simply no
>>physical evidence to support the claims. It is as simple as that.
>>
>>
>As far as events go in the Soviet Union, it is true that we are forced to
>rely on materials, most of which passed through Soviet custody. As you
>know, I think some of this is phony. But I don’t dismiss it all.

My position is different. As we know from the Katyn Woods case that they were
willing to falsify evidence then all of their evidence bears a heavier burden
to be accepted. The only question, were you lying then or are you lying now?

I see no reason to accept “some” as true when clearly all is suspect.

Obviously there is a question of how much could be produced in the time frame
but to deal with that we need to know of size of the NKVD staff during the war
that certainly continued. Russia was never much into demobilization.

>Reasons: First of all, I don’t dispute the six million figure. The most
>salient aspect of my skepticism (at least as far as conventionalists are
>concerned) is my skepticism over the scope of homicidal gassings. By the
>way, this is not unnatural, insofar as it is well recognized that the
>gassing stories are hard to believe:

>The deniers consciously fix on those aspects of the Holocaust that
>are hardest to believe [i.e., gassings, six million] precisely because
>they demand the greatest leap of the imagination. Lipstadt,
>*Denying the Holocaust, p. 90.

But the problem with six million is of course that it was “known” months after
the end of the war and has never changed in any significant amount regardless
of all of the individual reductions. (I have been over the “no historian
ever” routine elsewhere.) I really have a problem with a number that appears
with ZERO basis and no matter what happens in the intervening 50 years, never
changes.

To me that is clearly working towards the conclusion and not addressing the
problem. The data must be tortured until it totals six million and then given
a reprieve. Each torture is different but the number does not change.

If it had even gone up it would have greater credibility than it presently
has.

If for a while there had been a 7, 8, or 9 million number (or in reverse 5, 4
or 3 million) there would have at least been the pretense of legitimate
searching. But the number has been rock solid since it was pulled out of the
air on the basis of what “historians” now say is dead wrong.

Things just do not work that way. If we could track the total going up, down
and sideways then fine. That would indicate a legitimate search for the
correct number. But that is not what we see.

>On the other hand, I don’t find the shooting stories hard to believe, and
>there is tons of evidence — including mass graves — to support it,
>unlike the gassings, where the evidence is much more sparse. The reason
>you don’t hear about the mass graves is because most of them are
>relatively small (a few thousand or less) and because there were already
>many mass graves in the Soviet Union before the Germans invaded. How many
>recall the news story from the Spring of 1989 in the New York Times about
>the discovery of a chain of mass graves that apparently contained about
>300,000 corpses from the collectivization era? I didn’t think so. And
>this grave doesn’t have a name burned into our consciousness, and probably
>never will.

Except of course mass graves do not produce evidence of either religion or
birth mother. So what? How many mass graves do you want?

The chronicellors of Attila reported that he made a mountain of skulls of
proto-Hungarians that he horse were able to ride up and down. Such a mountain
would like have constituted the entire population of the civilized world at
the time if it had actually existed. But of course the skulls, much less the
rest of the bones have never been found.

But in the Russian case, now that their archives are open (for sale actually)
things can be found, places, burial locations and the evidence discovered.

On the other hand, the captured German files, with presumably an equal
interest in saying “never issue a digging (building) permit here” have no such
information.

>As per the shootings in Minsk, I tend to go along with David Irving in
>accepting this evidence. It *triangulates* with too much for me to reject
>it. Nor do I have any agenda for rejecting it. OTOH, if you want to
>reject it because of the lack of physical evidence, I can see your point,
>but I still disagree.

I find too many revisionists willing to only go half way in hopes of avoiding
the ultimate tag/perjorative/blood libel of Nazi, neo-nazi and/ro anti-semite,
which gets applied anyway so I do not see the point.

If a person is going to get that blood libel for speaking what they believe
then I see no reason to hold back in the least.

I see triangulation as capitulation to expectation to avoid the blood libel.
I see it as avoidance in hope of having a few ideas considered but I have yet
to see one such approach work.

How far has it gotten Irving? Did his drawing back from the obvious get his
book published in the US? What benefit accrued to that approach?

In the simplest terms it is, sheep or lamb. There is no benefit to recusion
>from what you will be called no matter what you say. It is not as though the
holohuggers are engaged in an honest exchange.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:37 PDT 1996
Article: 53051 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:53:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:38:40 GMT, [email protected] (John Nagle) wrote:

>[email protected](Annie Alpert) writes:
>>I appreciate your comments, Ken and agree with them. I’ve had
>>experience with SW over the years and have been disappointed by their
>>attempts to prevent open discussion on the internet. I may not agree
>>with everything posted on the internet, but I support any idiot’s right
>>to expose their ignorance and bigotry for all to see. I also reserve
>>the right to offer the facts in response to lies and half-truths.
>>Attempting the squelch open discussion will only make martyrs of those
>>who are squelched.

> The basic problem the Simon Weisenthal organization has is that
>all the real Nazis are either dead or geriatric by now. The
>mission of the Weisenthal organization is over. But the organization
>lives on, searching for reasons to justify its continued existence
>and fund-raising. They thus try to make the few neo-Nazi nuts look like a
>real threat. Their activity has some resemblance to the “Red Scares”
>the US went through in the 1930s and the 1950s, except that the threat
>is far smaller.

> The Simon Weisenthal Center publishes a pamphlet, “The Neo-Nazi
>Movement in Germany: An Eyewitness Documentary Report” (1993,
>Los Angeles, Simon Weisenthal Center, ISBN 0-943058-17-1),
>which can be purchased at their Museum of Tolerance in L.A.
>This is a fascinating document which gives some insight into their
>operations. In their words, “Between October 1992 and April 1993, the
>Simon Weisenthal Center conducted a covert operation to determine the
>strength, financial base, and ultimate leadership of Germany’s
>neo-Nazi movement”. As you read the document, it becomes clear that
>the Simon Weisenthal Center operates like an intelligence service,
>with spies, cover stories, and such. They even went so far as to create
>a fake neo-Nazi publication (“The Right Way”) to give their
>agent some fake credentials, using their “research staff” and
>”graphic designer” to create forms, stationery, and such.
>This is not speculation; they boast of this.

> Statements from the Simon Weisenthal Center should be viewed in
>light of the above.

As in the US, fully 1/12 of the “militia” organizations are government
infiltrators trying to convince members to cause trouble. The SWC appears to
be generating and probably funding exactly what they claim to be working
against. As long as they get a good return on their investment why would they
care.

But then, it appear the German government “ignored” these infiltrators leading
to the interest in cooperation.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:38 PDT 1996
Article: 53056 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:20:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 24 Jul 1996 16:20:21 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 21:25:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>> Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
>>>post about Nizkor?
>> Anyone with half a brain and who has read the “plaform” of Nizkor would
>>not have to ask that the first time.

> Go ahead, Prince Myshkin, humour me!!

You need to be humored, obviously.

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

> I’m sure someone with an IQ of 163 could manage that! (Which test did
>you say you got it on?)

I did not but it was Cattell.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53057 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:21:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 10:22:20 PM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 13:21:38 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> But you miss the point.
>
>> The purpose of the holohuggers is to hurt.
>
>> These are not civilized people. These are animals.

> Thank you for the statement of the un-American and uncivilized beliefs
>that motivate you.

> Thank you as well for confirming the basic statement at the core of my
>posting.

> Well, Mr. Widemann: when does Giwer get added to your “thought
>crimes” archive?

Who is he and why do you think he would care? Have a URL or some such.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53060 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!crl.dec.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:09:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 23 Jul 96 10:08:46, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!] [Mon 22 Jul 96 21:48][Tue 23 Jul >96 02:04][0]*>

> mnc> You mean the delousing building. You mean the building
> mnc> where people went it, put their clothes into the small rooms and
> mnc> took showers to get rid of the lice. Is that the building you
> mnc> are talking about?

>No – the room where they were gassed.

>Enough evidence has been presented that this is what it was.

>More evidence than there is of your existence.

>Who are you?

>Why are you here?

No such evidence has ever been presented. Were you here you would know that.

You should have been here at the time it was being discussed.

Not ONE “eyewitness” testimony matches any “gaschamber”.

We all know that.

Catch up with the discussion some day when you have time.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:40 PDT 1996
Article: 53068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group…
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:11:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]w-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
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On 23 Jul 96 11:10:00, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[A question about the tone of language in this group...] [Mon 22 Jul 96 >23:25][Tue 23 Jul 96 06:06][0]*>

> >> Depends on who calls me a Jew and how he does it. As the
> >> Virginian said, “Smile when you say that!”

> mnc> Ask Alec Grynspan about the time I showed up at Temple only
> mnc> wearing a Talith. It was his idea to tell of the story and I
> mnc> agreed that he could do so.

>Nope – never said that. Read what I wrote, Matt.

>++GMAIL 1.3++ Quick – Which way did I go? !
>–
>|Fidonet: Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
>|Internet: [email protected]

Gee, you never made the phone call and you never proposed to post it and you
never posted it.

I am not impressed in the least with your lost honesty.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:41 PDT 1996
Article: 53069 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:45:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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On 24 Jul 1996 07:38:30 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>I’d venture to guess Ken McVay is more like me: a masochist. Otherwise HOW
>>could he ever wade through the Giwer-garbage each day?

>Ah, but that’s where you’ve erred – I _don’t_ wade through it
>- it is deleted from my reader’s spool before I get into the
>newsgroup. Actually, there are two lines in the KILL file; the
>first archives the troll’s stuff, the second kills it, along
>with Moran’s. Makes for a peaceful morning.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:41 PDT 1996
Article: 53076 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!news.be.innet.net!INbe.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:47:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4ss7b4$9o3 <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:21:49 GMT, [email protected] (George F.
Hardy) wrote:

>Has there been an accurate count of the number? 6,000,000 Jews
>was claimed early, the number sort of picked out of the air.

>I have seen the following list:
>6,000,000 Jews
>5,000,000 Russians (non-Jewish)
>2,000,000 Poles (non-Jewish)
> 500,000 Gypsies
> 500,000 others.

>Is this close to correct? It seems to count all deaths in various
>detention camps.

Pick a number, any number. 31 Million vanished without a trace, alive? dead?
no one knows, but they vanished without a trace.

As to camps, no. The roving bands of executioners kill more every time the
camp number goes down. The objective is to keep the total number (12 million)
the same.

What has never been clear is what mechanism is used to separate the 43 million
(31 +12) into the untraceable and the known murdered. No one has ever made
this clear in any manner.

The one thing we do know is that taking Christian names and acting like
Christians is something Jews would never do because we are told that is not a
possible explanation for disappearing Jews.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:42 PDT 1996
Article: 53087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:02:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 1996 06:04:42 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> Perhaps you would like to provide a few? After all with all of the horrors
>> reported even by people claiming to have participated in them, we never come
>> across even reports of castration much less actual examples of it.

> Where have you looked? In the bottom drawer of your bureau? Under
>the pile of dirty socks in your bedroom?

Where else would I look with an expectation of finding them?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:39:43 PDT 1996
Article: 53088 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:46:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:47:26 PM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:03:57 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 23 Jul 1996 16:57:42 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >> And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never
>> >>threatened a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.
>>
>> > You sure did talk a lot about a RICO suit, including asking if anyone
>> >would be interested.
>>
>> Is asking a threat? In what manner? Or are you as stupid as the attorneys
>> here?
>>

>Try again, Matt. Your “asking” was sufficiently threatening to satisfy a
>judge.

To satisfy a judge of what? Asking after a lawsuit? Is that illegal in
Canada?

Is that how you keep your attornies in line in Canada? Prohibit them from
talking about lawsuits?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 06:46:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52985 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.graphics.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU
Date: 22 Jul 1996 19:54:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on1-02.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 3:54:48 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (beta 2)

My Tampa address is:

Box # 27
14205 Nebraska Avenue
Tampa, Florida
33682-2541

phone number: 813-972-2574

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 07:25:16 PDT 1996
Article: 37050 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Join the Gang of Eight: Edit a Giwer page today!
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 01:12:45 GMT
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On 24 Jul 1996 14:59:56 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>>If Mr. Giwer is looking for any sympathy for the alleged harassment of his
>>alleged parents, he sure picks a funny way of going about it.

>Mr. Giwer, using his own standards of proof, could not prove
>that his parents exist.

>Not that it matters, since…

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 09:10:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]tcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:19:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 3:20:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 05:56:31 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:46:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> >Then why do you not take your own advice, Mr. Giwer and put up or shut
>up.
>> >
>> >A statement like “Ken McVay harassed my parents” is crying out for proof
>> >– especially when Andrew Mathis has already confessed and apologised for
>> >calling your parents.
>> But at this point I do not know what the truth might be. I do know that
>a Ken
>> McVay called them. What this Mathis character has to do with it, I have no
>> idea other than what was in the message, if it was from his at all.

> In other words, you malicious son of a bitch, you were lying when you
>made your charge and knew it.

Actually if you had ever bothered to read the Mathis message you would know he
“came back and found out that” and then “confessed” to fraud. But of course
you did not bother to read it.

>You really are a stupid piece of work.

But instead you will continue the kind of libel you conspirators insist upon
accusing me of.

This
>statement is a clear admission of defamation even under the standards of NYT
>v. Sullivan. And, of course, you used what you knew to be a false charge in an
>attempt to intimidate someone.

Really? Is there anyone who would hire you after this post?

BTW: Never did ask you. Can you provide some citations of your cases? Just
out of curiosity of course.

> Let us see which of the “defenders of free speech” who have been
>so silent to this point will open their mouths.

If silence has an echo, its name is Nizkor.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 09:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 53095 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:27:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:59:17 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Quite an amazing bit of testimony.
>>
>Amazing and credible.

>> As “everyone” knows the testimony at the time for Auschwitz supported 4
>> million and thus it was not a camp for Jews, yet the deletions here attempt to
>> make that case.

>Once again, prove that this is what was deleted. Go get the originals if
>you think that this is what happened.

>>
>> In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE KNEW about the
>> extermination. In this post he states that it was a secret. Why is it that
>> no one gives a rat’s ass about Keren’s posts?

>Ummm – Matt, what’s so hard about this? That plenty of people knew is
>not a surprise. That the Nazis supressed as much as they did is not a
>surprise. Why can’t both happen?

A is A.

>After all, you try to pretend that you didn’t lose every argument – and
>everybody knows that you did.

>> > especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped
>> > like a normal soldier’s barracks with beds that had sheets on them,
>> > and well-functioning washrooms.
>>
>>
>> And the Red Cross team was composed of idiots. Sounds like Hogan’s Heros.

>So? What’s your point?

>>
>> Excessive delitions spark great curiosity.
>>

>The rest of the posting is available. Go and get it, Matt.

>You’re the one who refuses to provide URLs – particularly for stuff that
>doesn’t exist. Now *YOU* point to the deletion of excess and
>inconsequential material and hint at all sorts of things.

>Stop being so damned paranoid!

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better, I don’t know.”

When people get gassed six times and live to tell about, I do not consider it
paranoia.

He’s a Nazi.

How do you know?

He gassed me. … Well, it got better.

I thought that one was a joke when I made it up. Now I know it “really”
happened. Truth doth be stranger than fiction.

>Also – provide proof that the material that was deleted contradicts what
>wasn’t.

>Or – are you going t state that you “never said that”. In which case,
>why did you bother?

>>
>> >A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
>> > were gassed.
>>
>> Except for future famous people like Anne Frank. How prescient.

>What logic! What perspicacity!

>People who didn’t die an anonymous death sometimes became famous!

>Wow!

>GROW UP, MATT!

And then I was told that she survived Auschwitz ONLY because of her age and
that everyone younger than her was gassed immediately upon arrival. And then
I find other stories of younger children surviving.

Does the inconsistancy of the true truths never bother you?

>> >Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
>> > Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because
>> > of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?
>>
>> >A. Also to be gassed.
>>
>> Anne Frank?

>Non-sequitur?

No, Anne Frank.

And then there is Wiesel and his father who chose to be evacuated from
Auschwitz rather than liberated by the Russians.

Trying to make consistent sense out of the conflicting stories is quite
impossible.

The true issue is that those who witness the impossible were not witnesses at
all.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 10:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 53106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.digex.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor: Supporter of terrorists
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:16:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 10:18:09 PM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 16:18:05 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>> Actually Matty poo is in deeper doo-doo than he realizes. Technically
>>we have a “request” to perform a specific act coupled with an unspecified
>>threat which was later clarified as being a threat of extra legal action. In
>>the United States we call that “extortion.” At least that’s what the U.S.
>>Attorney assigned to Tampa thought.

> Right now I can imagine Mattie poo jumping up and down in his seat,
>shouting “I’ll sue you!!! I’ll sue you!!! I’ll sue that U.S. Attorney too!”

> He’s probably stomping his foot and holding his breath, too.

>> As I told Matty poo: it’s time for him to find a god. The prayers for
>>MacVay and Nizkor be should be very sincere. I suggest he makes them on a
>>regular basis.

> Not to mention making amends for what he said and/or threatened.

I will be certain to keep everyone informed of everything that happens.

Lets see, at best the conversation was with a newbie as an intake officer.

Next there will be a priority assigned to the case. Now do not forget, this
is a real big one. It will make careers. Investigators will be fighting to
be assigned the case once they know it is on the books.

Then, the investigators (four or five at least as this is such a high priority
case) will try to put together a case. He will be provided all the supporting
information, fellow victims, and witnesses I have including all of the email
evidence.

After that he will present his case to a prosecutor. The prosecutor will then
decide whether or not to present it to a grand jury to request an indictment.

And in the process of all of this, their time and costs will be considered.
But since it is a case of such major international implications it will be
pursued, no expense being too great.

Then the grand jury will have to issue a true bill. And then …

The mind boggles.

Or take an alternate scenario, a Canadian magistrate has issued an arrest
warrant and it is forwarded to the Justice Department, there being no such
thing in Canada. It is first reviewed for merit as said Justice Department
does not make a habit of arresting US citizens and incurring the costs of
extradition proceedings on the word of just anyone who happens to have the
title of magistrate.

=====

This is all getting fascinating though. As I have said, I do hope it was a
criminal filing and a criminal investigation. That way the scope and
direction are up to the American investigator.

And I, not having filed complaint one, will not come off looking like the
holohuggers will look.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 10:08:50 PDT 1996
Article: 53108 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!gail.ripco.com!code.ripco.com!news.tds.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:40:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 1:41:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:24 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
>[Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
>Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
>VIII, p. 313-321]
>———————————————————————-
>Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

>A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
> extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
> that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
> considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
> time, because the facts that were being described seemed too
> terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
> convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated,
> I was very much shaken emotionally.
>
> .
> .
> .

>Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
> gassed at Auschwitz?

>A. Yes.

Quite an amazing bit of testimony.

As “everyone” knows the testimony at the time for Auschwitz supported 4
million and thus it was not a camp for Jews, yet the deletions here attempt to
make that case.

> .
> .
> .

>Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
> beings were being gassed and exterminated?

>A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of
> Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a
> completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused
> me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo
> was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the
> secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly
> worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his
> closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody
> who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the
> Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about
> Auschwitz.

> .
> .
> .

In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE KNEW about the
extermination. In this post he states that it was a secret. Why is it that
no one gives a rat’s ass about Keren’s posts?

>Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
> Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
> days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

>A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
> commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
> and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
> masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the
> people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
> treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
> were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
> especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped
> like a normal soldier’s barracks with beds that had sheets on them,
> and well-functioning washrooms.

> .
> .
> .

And the Red Cross team was composed of idiots. Sounds like Hogan’s Heros.

>Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
> beings?

>A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

> .
> .
> .

Excessive delitions spark great curiosity.

>Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
> in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn’t quite clear as to why they were
> sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I’d like to put just a question or two
> to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital
> at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
> edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

>A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
> were gassed.

Except for future famous people like Anne Frank. How prescient.

>Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because
> of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

>A. Also to be gassed.

Anne Frank?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 11:44:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53122 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:53:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:54:59 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 12:12:08, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[ethnic groups] [Tue 23 Jul 96 06:07][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> >> And – oh yes – show the connection with the already verified
> >> gassings in the Holocaust.

> >> This *IS* alt.revisionism, after all.

> mnc> Thank you for fucking up royally.

>Thank you for admitting, Giwer-style, that you have lost the
>argument.

> mnc> I have been told that I contol this NG.

>You may control yourself, you may use Depends.

>You control little else.

>The people who have foolishly thought that you can control this
>newsgroup by disrupting it have since learned otherwise.

>You’ve lost, Matt. Plain and simple. Your credibility is gone. Your
>input value is nil and the deniers wish that you’d go away. The
>lurkers are seeing the vacuousness of your contentions.

>So you declare victory?!?

>Pity!

Are you saying that I do not control this conference and the folks who cooked
up that story and posted it in several other conferences and complained to my
provider about it were making it up?

And if they were making it up but still doing the above, would that not
constitute a conspiracy to harrass?

Your honest opinion would be appreciated.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 11:44:01 PDT 1996
Article: 53123 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:57:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:58:21 PM PDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 96 11:42:52, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[The threatened lawsuit] [Tue 23 Jul 96 03:35][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> mnc> Not one, not ONE threat to file a lawsuit.

> mnc> You holohuggers are very stupid, not to mention gullible.

>WRONG AGAIN!

>You really should learn to use words more effectively, Matt.

>The implication of taking legal actions and bringing actions would
>satisfy a judge.

Discussing the basis for a case is illegal in Canada? Is that one of the ways
you keep your attorneys under control?

And then there was McFly going on and on for weeks about suing me.

Clean hands again.

>Here’s a hint as to how to do it right:

Unnecessary.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 11:44:01 PDT 1996
Article: 53130 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Them Belsen Blues
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:56:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 3:57:15 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Some gassings are deadlier than others.

Another former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as
an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper,
the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the [Belsen] camp gas
chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on to relate: “Each
time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women and children
gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t know how he
was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer mused: “Maybe
children resist better, I don’t know.”

This is an excellent example of false memory syndrome. 48 years later he has
clear and obviously impossible memories (don’t even bother trying,
holohuggers) of being gassed six times.

Or maybe Belsen was just a magic camp.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 11:44:02 PDT 1996
Article: 53131 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:52:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:53:49 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:07:38 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>> > [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >
>> > Why would not deny hospitality to a traveler? Why would not not
>use that as
>> > an opportunity to attempt to convert me?
>>

>Mr. Giwer’s usually crystal-clear (NOT!) phrasing is completely askew.
>”Why would not not use that…?!?”
>
>Mr. Giwer obviously knows NOTHING about Judaism if he thinks Jews look for
>opportunities to “convert” others.
>
>Especially trolls like Giwer.
>
>By the way, I know of MANY Christian groups who now ALSO celebrate the Passover.
>
>Hmm.

It was posted here that the evidence of conversion by the early Hebrews was
the permission to feed travelers on Passover.

AG has also seconded the idea.

Why did you not disagree with them?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 12:36:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53145 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:00:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 7:02:13 PM PDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 17:21:20 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected]x.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Not one person ever found with radiation damage to the reproductive
>>organs.

> What the fuck?!?!?!?! Who’s making this claim, the mouse in your
>pocket? Your deranged imagination? It’s a strawman argument!! (Maybe Giwer
>thinks the strawman was supposed to have radiation damage.)

Perhaps you would like to provide a few? After all with all of the horrors
reported even by people claiming to have participated in them, we never come
across even reports of castration much less actual examples of it.

>> What a piece of shit this holocaust is.

> You seem to be talking about one that happened in your imagination,
>not the one that happened in the Third Reich!

> The only uncertain thing is when Giwer will go completely.

Mine comes from what is posted here. That is the one I have a problem with.

I thought I was joking about “He gassed me!” / “I got better” until I found
the story of the man who was gassed six times and lived to tell about it. If
you want to believe in that sort of thing, fine with me. Pardon me if I
laugh.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 15:09:12 PDT 1996
Article: 53155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:21:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 9:22:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 13:13:52 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 23 Jul 1996 06:50 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>Mittleman)
>> wrote:

>> >>> For any purpose whatsoever.
>
>> > It sounds to me like a death threat. The federal authorities
>> > considering extortion charges against you, Matty, probably won’t
>> > consider death threats highly in your favor.
>
>> Do you really think professionals are as stupid as you?

> Do you really believe that the FBI does not consider your threats as
>threats? Do you really believe that they would buy your lies?

You really mean they took it as a serious threat that I was going to mobilize
half the Marine Corp? Are you sure you got the right number? Or did you talk
to Janet Reno?

> Pick a god, Matty poo. Make your prayers on a regular basis. Make
>your prayers for the safety of those who you have threatened very sincere.

I am certain the Marines can handle it.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 15:09:13 PDT 1996
Article: 53166 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No more M E N O R A H?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:14:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 3:15:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 96 00:24:59 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article
> [email protected] “Marty Kelley” writes:

>> > Moran had at one time posted a comment on the nationwide Jewish
>> > conspiracy to have the menorah ruled as the only legal religious
>> > display to be permitted in public lands.

>Actually this is a good example of Jewish mischief making coming home to
>roost. Jewish organisations consistently opposed any form of free speech
>for “racists” and “fascists” ad nauseum in Britain and did everything in their
>power to suppress such groups, even though most of them didn’t give a monkeys
>about Jews and were concerned primarily with stopping mass immigration.
>Then in the 70s, many leftists at universities began extending the no-platform
>”rule” to Zionists, equating Zionism with “racism” (correctly).

>Jews continue to lobby to increase the power of the state to fight the
>mythical Nazi menace; they never learn the lesson of history that as soon
>as the state is all powerful, everybody’s favourite minority is first on
>the list of the new despots.

But they hope to be in charge of designating the minorities.

The first will be the Black Muslims. Next will be all the Schwartzes.

Interestingly, the BMs are armed against it and expect it.

It should be interesting.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 16:00:56 PDT 1996
Article: 53174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What was the basis for the stories about the holocaust?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:28:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:29:17 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 22:14:26 GMT, wrote:

>>What is the basis for stories about the Holocaust?

>The basis for great many stories about the Holocaust
>is the hope that by revealing the horror of it, human
>beings can be made aware of the dangers to people in
>this world which arise not from natural disasters, but
>from malevolence coupled with technological prowess.

Lets see, technological prowess. That appears to mean a building with doors
and a hole in the roof. When it comes to technology I can hardly say that I
am impressed.

>The hope is that if sufficient numbers of human beings
>are aware of this peril, the next attempt(s) at genocide
>can be thwarted.

>Recounting the Holocaust — even if in subdued and
>understated terms — provides a salient warning, not
>based on idle speculation but on cold, hard and disturbing
>facts the recent history of a society which prided/prides
>itself on being the acme of civilisation.

And although it has been a complete and total failure at that objection, it
does permit its believers to wallow in all kinds of horror stories.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 16:10:38 PDT 1996
Article: 37096 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.usenet.kooks,alt.politics.white-power,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Full Hootch Giwerundean?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:01:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 2:02:32 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.usenet.kooks:27454 alt.politics.white-power:37096 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:335

On 24 Jul 1996 12:20:26 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote of the following
>trollese:

> “Now we have McFly wasting all his creating
> ignoed messages. What s tool.”

>> The Giwer’s gonna blow!! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!

>>He’s speaking fluent gibberish, as far as I can tell. Which dialect is
>>hard to tell, as I only know a couple of dialects myself.

>It shows strong indications of Full Hootch Giwerundean, without the usual
>touch of Moranic. I would guess that it is asking where its
>stool has gone… without remembering, due to the Full Hootch,
>of course, that its stool has been plastered all over the UseNet.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>URL https://nizkor.org/encouragements/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
>ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
>redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
>an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>–
>Nizkor Canada | https://nizkor.org
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Troll Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:14 PDT 1996
Article: 53189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:37:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4t3kr1$2j[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 12:39:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:35:20 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>[exposures of various Giwer’s lies deleted….]

>> How does it follow that I invaded anyone’s privacy when I posted the
>> information he gave to InterNIC? If he didn’t want anyone to know it he
>> should not have provided it.

>That information was provided to InterNIC, not to you. Your publishing
>that information was at the least improper, since he in no way authorized
>you to publish that information on the Usenet. Whether not Mr. McVay
>wanted the information public is besides the point; the fact is that YOU
>were not authorized to print that information.

Where is it written that authorization is needed? Or did you just make this
up? (That was a rhetorical question.) BTW: Since I had to work out your
real address from the headers, just in case you don’t get it, I do not want
any email that duplicates public posts. Please stop it.

>If you feel differently, then perhaps it is your address and telephone
>number which should be printed on the Usenet, since that information is
>readily accessible.

Both are already on the internet and put up by me. What is your problem?
Aren’t able to find them?

But of course McVay took a different route for making his similar information
public and it was his choice to do it that way. It does not have to be done
the way he did it. But then he was ballsey enough to do it in the first place
and now appears to have gotten cold feet about his decision.

>> a phony baloney charge
>> >that MacVay was harrassing his father (later proved false in all
>material respects),
>> >and a threat to “mobilize” half the Marine Corps to get MacVay.
>>
>> Is there anyone you can report that “threat” to with a straight
>face?

>You made the threat. It is documented. Do somebody actually need to get
>the article from DejaNews or AltaVista to show you what an idiot you are,
>or will you just admit that you made the threat ? Oh what the hell, here
>it is:

>—————FROM DEJANEWS————————————————:

>Subject: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>Date: 1996/07/20
>Message-Id: <[email protected]>
>References: <[email protected]>
><[email protected]> <[email protected]>
><[email protected]>
>Organization: images incarnate
>X-Netcom-Date: Sat Jul 20 2:58:21 AM CDT 1996
>Newsgroups:
>alt.politics.white-Power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads

>[quoted article deleted – RKG]

> But you harrassed a fellow Marine in his 80s and very close to the end
>just to get my phone number.

> You worthless slime.

> Marines do not do that to each other.

> May I suggest my patience is near an end?

> You had better respond real soon now.

> This is another of those next to last warnings just to give you time to
>do so.

> You claim I am in your killfile. That is your claim. My posts are
>public. If you choose not to read them then you have brought your
>problems upon yourself. And I think I can bring down half of the corp
>upon you for what you are doing to my parents, one of whom is a marine.

You will note here the reference to his refusal to discuss the matter with me
before I went public.

>——————————————————————————-

>Sounds like a threat to invoke the wrath of the marines (a moronic threat,
>but a threat nonetheless) to me.

And a very credible one to you I am certain. Or would you object to the
information being broadcast at Quantico? Would he? Would he actually show up
as ever having been in the Corp? Obvious questions I would think.

>> What is Nizkor? Who is Nizkor? If it is a corporation, then at
>least > it can have the fiction of free speech. What is “nizkor”
>saying these > days?

>Nizkor is hardly a corporation, but then if you’d read a little you’d know that.

That is correct, so there is no Nizkor to have free speech. It is McVay’s
personal plaything. So the subject of free speech is always McVay, not
Nizkor. And remember that McVay supports Zundel’s right to free speech any
place but Canada.

>> Rather it is a personal plaything of McVay who is out to use it for >
>> personal benefit in some manner.

>Liar. I defy you to use your 165 IQ (which must have been discovered in
>some graphic dream sequence) to prove your assertion.

Excuse me. He dropped as a rock bottom minimum, $100 for the domain name.
Just being altruistic? Granted the computer being used is “donationware” but
the phone line is a regular expense. Unless pirated the Unix (or NT) software
was a significant expense.

In other words he gets nothing from the money he has spent? Nothing at all?
Even self satisfaction is a personal benefit.

Or perhaps you hold he is storing up treasure in heaven.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sol Litmann: History of censorship-happy activism
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:29:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:30:50 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 04:14:12 GMT, [email protected] (Orest Slepokura) wrote:

And any moment now, YFE will post a stirring defense of their right to post
and a condemnation of SWC, Canada. That will be followed shortly by a
prepared press statement from McVay echoing the sentiment. Or will again the
echo of silence sound like Nizkor?

>We first heard of Mr. Sol Littman back in 1972, when his name appeared in
>the text of the book by the Rev. A.C. Forrest, the editor of The Observer,
>the main organ of the United Church of Canada, titled *The Unholy Land*.

>At *that* time it was any discussion of the Palestinian question that our
>old friend Mr. Littman was very anxious to block. Nowadays, it seems he’s
>obsessed by a proclivity by some to indulge in Holocaust revisionism, as
>well as some issues pertaining to racial identity.

>Rev. Forrest makes it abundantly clear to his readers what craven whores
>the mainstream publishers were in the the 1970s – no different from today,
>really, and how they caved in to special interest groups, with censorious
>old futzers like Sol Littman leading the charge.

>Looks like the censorship-happy Sol Littman isn’t contemplating retirement
>yet. It was once said of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien that he was
>”Yesterday’s man.”

>Seems to me the label would be better applied to Sol Littman. He’s out of
>his depth in the Age of the Net. Some kind soul ought to pull him aside
>and let him know what a fool he’s been making of himself.

>Somebody ought to remind ol’ Sol that it’s now 1996, not 1972.

>==============================================================================

>The weekend edition of The Globe and Mail carried the following item from
>Canadian Press in its July 20 issue.

>Internet server home to racist sites

>VANCOUVER – The Simon Wiesenthal Centre says a small Internet provider in
>the Okanagan Valley has become the largest site in Canada for white
>supremacist and Holocaust denial material.

>At least 12 groups promoting white supremacy and hate against minorities
>are using the Fairview Technology Centre in Oliver [British Columbia,
>Canada] to promote their views, the human-rights group said Thursday.

>Fairview’s site includes two host web pages, Freedom Site and Skin-Net,
>which provide access to the pages of a dozen other similar groups.

>Some of the web page organizers are connected to Ernst Zundel, the Toronto
>Holocaust-denier, said Sol Littman, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre’s Canadian
>representative.

>Mr. Littman wrote to Bernard Klatt, owner of Fairview, to tell him he
>didn’t have to provide service to such groups.

>Mr. Klatt said he knows about the groups.

>Asked whether he is concerned, he said: “Not yet. Should I be? I am aware
>they are there. I probably should go loook at them.”

>==============================================================================

>–
>******************************************************************
>What sort of truth is it that needs protection? – Auberon Waugh *
> *
>The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992 *
>*******************************************************************

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:16 PDT 1996
Article: 53191 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:35:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 140
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 12:36:10 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 13:47 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran) writes…
>>>
>>>> Moran will give you straight foward material and the responses
>>>> will … Well just follow along and you will see.
>>>
>>> The stragiht-forward “information” that Moran presents is, rather, twisted
>>>misrepresentations embellished with bigotry and outright lies. One organization that
>>>Moran has cited as a source states: “As Bill Moffett’s successor, I cannot state too
>>>strongly the Huntington’s abhorrence of statements like those of Mr. Moran’s, He has
>>>twisted and embellished the facts concerning the release of the Dead Sea Scroll to
>>>serve his bigotry and anti-Semitism.”
>>>
>>> –YFE
>>
>> The name of the “oragnization” Mr.Edeiken is speaking of is a
>>Mr.Zeidberg. When he mentions the “Huntington’s abhorrence” he is
>>speaking for himself.
>> Even this he seemed to regret after a phone conversation with him
>>in regard to Mr.Edeiken’s posting his response to him. Mr.Zeidberg
>>became a little more attentive when I ask him if he knew what kind of
>>format his note would be posted on and if he knew the nature of the
>>person who he was dealing with at the other end of his communication.

> In response to this post, I have sent David Zeidberg the following
> letter:

>David S. Zeidberg, Director
>Huntington Libraries

>July 23, 1996

>Dear Dr. Ziedberg,

>I am writing to you in response to an alt.revisionism Usenet discussion
>group posting made by a Mr. Tom Moran from the Los Angeles area. Please
>allow me to show you Mr. Moran’s posting and then comment on it below. Mr.
>Moran is responding to remarks made by Yale Edeiken:

> From: [email protected] (tom moran)
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>

> >The straight-forward “information” that Moran presents is, rather, twisted
> >misrepresentations embellished with bigotry and outright lies. One
> organization that
> >Moran has cited as a source states: “As Bill Moffett’s successor, I
> cannot state too
> >strongly the Huntington’s abhorrence of statements like those of Mr.
> Moran’s, he has
> >twisted and embellished the facts concerning the release of the Dead
> Sea Scroll to
> >serve his bigotry and anti-Semitism.”
> > –YFE

> The name of the “organization” Mr.Edeiken is speaking of is a
> Mr.Zeidberg. When he mentions the “Huntington’s abhorrence” he is
> speaking for himself.

> Even this he seemed to regret after a phone conversation with him in
> regard to Mr.Edeiken’s posting his response to him. Mr.Zeidberg became
> a little more attentive when I ask him if he knew what kind of format
> his note would be posted on and if he knew the nature of the person who
> he was dealing with at the other end of his communication.
> [Tom Moran]

>As you may know, alt.revisionism is a public discussion group on the
>Internet set up in 1991 to focus the conversation of Holocaust deniers who
>had previously been exercising their right to free speech in public
>discussion groups such as soc.culture.jewish. Alt.revisionism was created
>to give these deniers, many of them neo-nazis or anti-Semites, their own
>sandbox and discourage their interruption of discussions in other
>locations. While they still tend to spill out into other discussion
>groups, the action has worked remarkably well.

>Over the years two interesting developments have occurred. One, a cadre of
>individuals has emerged within the confines of alt.revisionism who counter
>the assertions made by these Holocaust deniers. There are between one
>dozen and two dozen individuals who are actively engaged in this activity
>at this time. I fall into this category, as does Yale Edeiken whose post
>Mr. Moran was responding to above. And two, the Nizkor organization has
>emerged as an archive and resource for dealing with hate speech on the
>Internet. While the initial core of Nizkor’s work dealt with countering
>Holocaust denial, the work has spread to countering other hate agendas as
>well.

>That said, I am concerned by Mr. Moran’s post above. He represents to have
>had a telephone conversation with you where he has dissuaded you from your
>initial statement to Mr. Edeiken. Let me assure you that Mr. Edeiken is in
>fact who and what he purports himself to be. Mr. Edeiken is a lawyer
>practicing in the State of Pennsylvania and both an active participant to
>alt.revisionism and strong contributor to the work Nizkor is doing. Mr.
>Edeiken also lost over 150 relatives to the Holocaust. Mr. Moran, on the
>other hand, has been a frequent poster to alt.revisionism putting forward
>an anti-Semitic agenda including a constant denial of the reality of the
>Holocaust. He has a history of twisting fact and fiction together to build
>his arguments. Your analysis that his actions were evidence of “bigotry
>and anti-Semitism” was completely on track.

>I trust you made the same judgments yourself from your conversations with
>the two principals above. However, if you wish to, you can verify my
>analysis of the parties involved through Nizkor. Further, as a complete
>history of our alt.revisionism discourse is available at Nizkor and other
>Internet archives, I would be happy to make available to you any background
>material you might request.

>I suspect that you have little interest yourself in being involved in our
>debate and I make no request that you do so. I simply wish to point out to
>you that your initial conversation with Mr. Edeiken was very helpful and
>that you should be careful should Mr. Moran attempt to dissuade you from
>that help in any way. I want to assure you that there was value to your
>initial remarks to Mr. Edeiken and that those remarks have been handled in
>a responsible manner.

>If you wish to follow up this letter with any further conversation, you can
>reach me at my office at (520) 621-xxxx.

>Sincerely,

>Daniel Mittleman, Ph.D.
>Research Fellow
>Center for the Management of Information
>The University of Arizona

>cc: Yale Edeiken (by electronic mail)
> alt.revisionsim (public posting)

Amazing. After all of this jumping up and down, a librarian with a fancy
title.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:16 PDT 1996
Article: 53207 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!eua.ericsson.se!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:04:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 3:05:49 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 03:21:13 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 24 Jul 1996 12:58:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>> >> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >> On 24 Jul 1996 03:57:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> >> > When did potatoes become part of a Seder?
>> >
>> >> They were named as part of Seder, idiot. Read the find thread.
>
>> > Whoever said so (assuming you are not lying again) was incorrect.
>> >Potatoes are not part of the ritual meal. Period.
>
>> That is what I said. And look at all the wasted bandwidth over it. Was
>there
>> a point to it all?

> Well, Matty poo, you started it with a lie. Then you lied about what you
>were told. Now you’re lying about what you said.

Of course, the same mutually agreed mantra of the emailing holohuggers.

> I suppose the point of it is to demonstrate, once more, that you lie.
>Admittedly this is not much of a point since it seems to be you normal mode of
>operation. In fact, you seem to do almost nothing but lie.

> I hope you’re thinking up some good ones to tell the judge if your prayers
>for Nizkor don’t pan out.

And the FBI is going to be at my door in the morning. I can see it all now.

Or are you planning violence upon it to frame me? Are you going to take as
axe to the donationware computer?

There is one person in this group who knows exactly how silly your pretensions
are and knows exactly why.

Hey, Dvdthomas, you may tell him that you know but not what you know at the
moment if you have the time. I would appreciate it if you would also tell them
why you know I shrug off their “library visit” suggestions but not yet as to
the reason. Let them speculate for now.

It has all been said but they did not care to pay attention at the time I said
it.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:17 PDT 1996
Article: 53212 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:33:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 9:34:14 PM CDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 17:50:07 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Excuse me but I was talking about the real Passover, not the post 1492
>>Passover fair. When you learn something about it, get back to me.

> What is this “post 1492 Passover fair” crap? Oh, I forgot – you’re
>talking through your arse again.

Where do you think potatoes came from?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53213 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:34:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 3:35:21 AM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:45:31 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were
>anything to
>> happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing you ever
>> do. I hope that is clear.
>>
>> Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

>
>Gee.. sure sounds like a threat to me.
>
>Mr. Giwer just can’t keep that little foot out of his mouth, can he?

Are you saying that your fate does not depend upon the consequences of yout
actions?

What a strange person.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53221 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 136
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:02:15 PM CDT 1996
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On 24 Jul 1996 17:05:26 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On 22 Jul 1996 10:56:22 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
>>wrote:
>>> Perhaps I should have posted your parents’ full address and phone
>>>number. After all, it too is publicly available if you know the right web
>>>site. Would it bother you if I did that? After all, it would not be my
>>>fault since I am only making available what others have already made
>>>available.
>>> For any purpose whatsoever.
>> That would not be a pleasant thing for you to do. In fact were
>>anything to happen to them because of that, it might in fact be the last thing
>>you ever do. I hope that is clear.
>> Your fate will be dependent upon the consequences of your actions.

> What is this crap, a threat?

Isn’t the fate of everyone?

> What are you going to do, sue someone???

Lets review the bidding. I receive phones calls from an unknown person making
noises and growling something about Nazi.

I regularly receive not only harrassing email from Canadian sources but also
mail bombs from Canada.

My son has received harrassing email from Canada. And then someone calls my
parents identifying himself as a person from Canada and the word gets to me
second hand that a Candian has let me know he knows their phone number and
therefore address. Or were you born yesterday and do not understand that kind
of message?

At this point Canadians in one way or another have involved my entire
immediate family in their continuing harrassment campaign.

And now we have Stein from Virginia threatening to join in the harrassment.

Now what point were you trying to make? That you condone this sort of thing?
That you see nothing wrong with it?

And if you are thinking of playing the “prove it” game, it will not be up to
me. As if I am contacted by any law enforcement agency over any of this they
will receive the entire story above. There are plenty of people who know of
it and were witness to it as well and records made and email kept.

If they choose to pursue it they will be talking to the people to whom it
happened.

It will not be my credibility or what I can prove only. There will be plenty
of supporting information to cover this matter completely.

Now if someone has gotten law enforcement involved as some are implying then
the course and scope of the investigation is completely out of my hands as is
the direction it takes. And the last I heard filing a misleading report is
deemed a bad as filing a false report. “We didn’t do anything” would appear
to be on the misleading side.

I have five people who have been involved besides me. There are witnesses to
their involvement. I also have six ISPs who have been involved and who
presumably have records of what is going on. I have copies of messages; I
even have 400 different copies of the same message in one case. And then of
course there is DejaNews.

I will be quite curious how this one goes down.

> This is really hypocritical coming from the guy who posted what he
>claimed was Ken’s address and phone numbers!!

It is what InterNIC says is his address and phone number. I have no idea what
it is. It is certainly whatever the person named McVay associated with Nizkor
wanted to be public else why would have have given it?

> What will Mattie-poo do if someone beats up Ken using the information
>Mattie-poo posted? (Prince Myshkin will no doubt claim it had nothing to do
>with his posting, in line with his usual double standards.)

Other than your insults and your baby talk there is no reason I would care to
do anything. Obviously the person would know how to access the internet.
Whois is a very simple thing with about a dozen share and free ware versions
of it. There is nothing to connect me with the action nor have I promoted
such action.

Rather since my address is clearly available, should I not be worried? Or is
there some difference between his risk and my risk? I have permitted mine to
be public, he has permitted his to be public.

What do you see as the difference?

>> I have in mind revealing holohuggers for what they are to the media and
>>you in particular. That should set you terrorists back a bit.

> “Terrorists”? The only act that could be called aggressive against you
>is the phone call where someone misrepresented himself to your parents as Ken
>McVay. When the real culprit owned up, he was criticised by anti-deniers.

Were you born yesterday or do you not recognize a threat when you read one?

Or have you missed the terrorist bombings of Zundel and the IHR?

Are you claiming you do not recognize the tactics of terrorists when you see
them?

Perhaps it was yesterday.

>> What should be a civilized discussion in a single newsgroup becomes the
>>basis for exactly the kind of terrorism holohuggers claim they risk but never
>>receive.

> Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?

You are excused.

>> Why do I not report this?
>> 1) Canadians can deal with their own law
>> 2) The longer it continues the greater the penalties

> Translation: Mattie-poo is bluffing.

Beyond your childishness, it is quite my hope that a criminal investigation
has been started. It is simply that I am not the one to start it as I know
how tempers flare in public discussion groups like this and how ill-conceived
posts are made. It would be quite interesting to see the direction it takes
after the complete story comes under consideration.

Everything I have recited above and more has happened. You will also find
several posts under the thread of Clean hands in the group. You might try
giving them a read.

What clearly you might like to call bluffing is, if implications are correct,
quite out of my hands at this point. Again, it will be interesting to see
what transpires.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:19 PDT 1996
Article: 53222 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:58:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 11:00:03 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:31:24 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>>Subject: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
>>From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:12:57 GMT
>>
>>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>## Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>>## Panzer training school, about a mile away.
>>
>># “800 tons”? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to
>># keep 6 or 7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?
>>
>>Let’s do a little calculation here:
>>
>>(800*1000)/(6000*100*360) = 0.0037
>>
>>That is, 800 tons of food, distributed over 6-7 thousand people
>>over a 100 years, gives, as far as I can see, 0.0037 kilograms,
>>or 3.7 grams, per person per day.
>>
>>I see that you’re now claiming that a person can live on 3.7
>>grams of food per day.
>>
>>Heck, this is even better than your previous, very famous,
>>example of “Moranic mathematics”.
>>
>>Go to sleep, zeide. There. There. That’s more like it.
>>
>>-Danny Keren.
>>
>>COMMENT FROM EHRLICH606:
>>
>>Dan, I like your posts, but your attempt at a remorseless putdown of Tom
>>would have been better if you got your magnitudes right. A ton is either
>>2,000 lbs. or 2,240, long or short. So everyone gets 7.4 grams a day,
>>which is _twice_ as much as you calculated.
>>
>>BTW, I do a lot of by year calculations, I usually use 365.25 to reflect
>>leap years,
>>of course, at the century mark you have to drop one. But that gets into
>>the realm of very minor.

> I didn’t see this post by Keren, but here he corrects me on my
>numbers statement, which I just threw out there for satirical comment.
>What Keren shows here is, he has gone through the simple procedure of
>figuring out in a arithmetic way to show the numbers to be way off,
>and then refers to other mathematical cipherings I have made, which he
>simply wrote and still writes off as “Moronic mathematics”, never once
>making an attempt at showing the previous numbers were in err in a
>mathematical way. This of course is mostly about how I figured out
>that only 15 per cent or less of the HCN in Zyklon B would have been
>used in the time frames offered for the extermination process.
> ‘Hah, hah’, thinks Keren, ‘I have caught Moran’, but by so doing
>he raises the question of why he didn’t try it with the other figures.

> Interesting. Revealing.

You can be certain he has done that with all the figures. He will not bring
up the others because you are correct in them and it is against his religion
convictions to admit you are correct in them.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:20 PDT 1996
Article: 53225 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU
Date: 23 Jul 1996 16:19:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: trt-on2-19.netcom.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:19:06 PM EDT 1996
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says…
>
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes…
>>My Tampa address is:
>>
>>Box # 27
>>14205 Nebraska Avenue
>>Tampa, Florida
>>33682-2541
>>
>>phone number: 813-972-2574
>
> I presume this is a forgery. It didn’t contain any insults.
>
> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

piss off.

feel better now?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 25 20:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 53241 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:12:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:13:43 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:30:56 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>This is entirely plausible. As Deborah Lipstadt writes, After
>>fumigation, gas would be trapped in all sorts of nooks and crannies.
>>Consequently mattresses, pillows, upholstered furniture, and similar items
>>had to be shaken or beaten for at least an hour in the open air.>quote> *Denying the Holocaust*, p. 224

> This would show why it would be necessary for a product like
>Zyklon B to be designed for graduated, extended release from the
>pellets. HCN being lighter than air, and purposely used for that
>reason, would tend to stay in the air until it was ‘captured’ by some
>material or taken on by the targeted pest. If it was released all at
>once, it would tend to have less chances of reaching any nooks or
>crannies, having adhered to surfaces and substances before it had the
>chance.
> I believe there is a post out here right now that mentions
>something about a hot air introduction system for Zyklon B into
>fumigation chambers. If this is true, then we can assume that the
>product would have the properties of slow release and the evaporation
>was assisted with hot air for faster release when using a confined
>area like a fumigation chamber. Hot air would also increase the
>kinetic activity of the molecules in the air that would make
>penetration into materials more thorough.

Also the heated air prevented condensation permitting it all to be removed
>from the chamber faster when the process was over. It is also a feature
notable by its absense from the LKs even though they maintained such a huge
throughput rate.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53245 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:06:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:07:17 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 09:09 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 24 Jul 1996 17:30 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>>>
>>>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?
>>>> Have you missed the people who have admitted I control this NG?
>>>> If so, why have you missed it?
>>>> You ain’t jack shit.
>>
>>> There is a strong philosophy of free and open speech here. But I
>>> predict the day is coming very soon where Matt Giwer will simply
>>> disappear from alt.revisionism forever. Very soon.
>>
>> That is neither the first time it has been predicted nor the first time you
>>have predicted it.

> Oh, I do think it is the first time I’ve predicted it. And I stand by
> it. It would be a simple matter to robo-kill all your posts if someone
> wanted to do so. And, I might point out, it would not be illeagal.
> But being the internet expert you are, you knew that.

Sort of surprising it has not been done. After all, holohuggers want anyone
who is not as gullable as they are silenced.

That is what this harrassment campaign against my family and I and others has
been all about.

>> Or shall I take this as a threat under the laws of Canada?

> Seeing that you are not in Canada and I am not in Canada, what does
> Canadian law have to do with it? Nothing.

> But you knew that! :b

Then I know it is a threat under US law.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:10:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-40.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:11:46 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 06:13:29 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 24 Jul 1996 13:13:52 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>
>> You really mean they took it as a serious threat that I was going to
>mobilize
>> half the Marine Corp? Are you sure you got the right number? Or did you talk
>> to Janet Reno?

> Nope, the FBI. They took the words “for any purpose whatsoever” and
>”unspecifed penalties” for what they are: extortion. That’s a felony, Matty poo. So I
>repeat :

Golly cheeze whiz.

An opportunity to present all of the organized (in their opinion) harrassment
>from from our fuzzballs from the North.

It will be interesting to see what they collect for the grand jury indictment
as they have no evidence that in fact I posted any such thing.

I really am hoping for a serious criminal investigation that will look into
every aspect of what has been going on. It will bring you and your admission
of unethical and criminal price fixing under investigation.

Sounds good to me.

Do you have anything else to say for yourself?

Please speak into the microphone. This sounds like a much bigger can of worms
than I ever imagined I would open.

>YFE> > Pick a god, Matty poo. Make your prayers on a regular basis. Make
>YFE> >your prayers for the safety of those who you have threatened very sincere.
>
>> I am certain the Marines can handle it.

> You aren’t a Marine. Take some advice: think up some powerful
>prayers. Be very sincere when when you recite them.

You are the religious type who believes in the genocidal god of your
ancestors. So what?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:26 PDT 1996
Article: 53271 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:07:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 5:08:43 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:36:31 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>[Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing
> gassing in Krema I in Auschwitz]

># Pea sized blue granules of wood pulp as the carrier
># used against vermin.

>But the 1933 book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, general manager
>of Degesch, shows photographs of the Erco carrier, and
>it is indeed composed of small pellets.

It does not matter. We have a specific reference to the specific type that is
supposed to have been used.

>Since you’re mentally retarded, I thought that reading
>may pose too much of a difficulty for you, so I even
>scanned the photograph and posted it on the web.

One would think that before “retardation” sets in one would read the
publication that specifically refers to the carrier that was used. Why is it
that you can not face what the publication says?

You appear to be so heavily into insisting it was the carrier that you can not
connect with a purpose.

What I actually expect (and this is after you folks claiming to have the
publication but not posting it claiming “translation” delays but in fact
because it said wood pulp) is that some place else in the book it in fact
supports wood pulp as the carrier and identifies “ERCO” (whatever that is) as
for another purpose.

>But even that doesn’t help. Nothing helps. You’re a lost
>case.

>As you know well, the Erco carrier is also mentioned in
>other documents written at the time, and it is described
>as small blue pellets.

>We have been through this dozens of times already, yet
>you continue with this nonsense.

>You are mentally retarded. It’s the only conclusion I can
>make. There is no way that a normal person wouldn’t have
>understood such a thing, after so many times.

And before this we many times went over your claim that the Degesh PUBLICATION
supported your position but you kept it secret. Now you repeat the same
tactic with a book that is untranslated and unposted in its entirety.

How many times will this same tactic be used?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:45:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 6:46:20 PM CDT 1996
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On 25 Jul 1996 18:48:17 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Wow! Prince Myshkin

Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
mused: “Maybe children resist better,
I don’t know.” (Although Peer claimed that “Bergen-Belsen was worse than
Auschwitz,” he acknowledged that he and his younger brother and sister, who
were deported to the camp in 1944, all somehow survived internment there.)

“He’s a Nazi!”

“How do you know?”

“He gassed me!”

“Is that all?”

“He gassed me again and again and again and again and again!”

“He gassed you six times?”

“I got better.”

not only didn’t post the relevant laws in his
>reply to my posting, he quoted my posting and appended a completely irrelevant
>one!

> Not only is smoke pouring out all his orifices, I have a nasty feeling
>it will come out of the pores of his skin!!

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:28 PDT 1996
Article: 53276 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:08:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:18:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

># In the previous post Librarian Keren has posted that EVERYONE
># KNEW about the extermination. In this post he states that it
># was a secret. Why is it that no one gives a rat’s ass about
># Keren’s posts?

>If you could read, you would have noticed that Hoessler said
>that everyone *in the camp (Auschwitz)* knew about the gas
>chambers.

>Not *everyone* in Europe, or in the world.

>Since you’re unemployed, and, evidently, have a lot of free
>time, why don’t you go back to school? Second grade may be
>a good place to start.

I was referring to the camp. As you know there are plenty of claims from
people who were at Auschwitz they never heard of such a thing. You have
certainly posted more than a few of them.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:28 PDT 1996
Article: 53279 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:50:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:27:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:

># What I don’t understand about that is that I have a graph
># of Zyklon out-gassing from the German firm that took over
># the production from Degesch, and it shows a straight 37%
># per half hour outgassing of the remaining volume.

>It’s different material. You’re talking about something
>which is manufactured today. It’s not the WW2 Zyklon-B;
>we’ve been through this. Doesn’t Germar Rudolph say so
>himself?

It is good to realize you “know” it is a different material but it is unclear
how you know. Would you explain?

Or perhaps you are saying that HCN worked differently during the war along
with all the witnesses who make that claim.

>We have technical material, written by, among others,
>Dr. Gerhard Peters, the general manager of Degesch during WW2.

We also have what you insisted supported your position until I posted it.

>It gives a much faster evaporation rate than 37% per
>half-hour. And it’s relevant, because it was written
>in the 1930’s and 1940’s, not 50 years later.

It is good see physical law was different in those years.

>Any special reason that you continue to ignore it?

Perhaps when there a translation of the complete document available there will
be something to ignore. But as you were concealing the other document which
said wood pulp while claiming it supported you there is nothing we can take
upon your word for the contents at this point.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53282 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days…
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:59:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:07:01, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>On 24 Jul 1996 11:52:57 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
>>wrote:

>>>In article ,
>>>[email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>>>>I know, I know! There’s the AG’s office in the state of residence of
>>>>the person committing extortion, and there’s the FBI. And there’s
>>>>also the Department of State, come to think of it.

>>>Close – try the United States Attorney and the FBI (Tampa), rather than
>>>the State AG. They seem to take a very dim view of international extortion.

>Ooops. But that probably should be “in addition to the State AG,” I hope.

>>>..which reminds me… I’m flying south on business tomorrow, to speak with
>>>some folks who find Mr. Giwer’s articles of more than casual interest, and
>>>may not have access for a few days – I’ll catch up on my email from the
>>>hotel, once I get settled.

>> Golly. And I am worth such an expense. A telephone will not do.

>Nothing but the best, eh? Seems to me that it’s a good idea, every now and
>then, for the authorities to use somebody like yourself as a particularly good
>lesson on how the right to free expression doesn’t include the right to, say,
>make terroristic threats or engage in extortion, or the like.

>You are, after all, both clumsy and stupid, and that always makes for a good
>object lesson.

>I don’t think you’ll understand the lesson; but perhaps others will.

>Enjoy.

Thank you, I will.

What I did not enjoy was the clever way I was given the message that “Ken
McVay” knew how to find my parents.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:30 PDT 1996
Article: 53287 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:44:16 GMT
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 1996 09:16 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>
>>If someone was foolish enough to make this a criminal matter it will be up to
>>the investigators to determine the extent of the harrassment. You folks have
>>taken yourselves out of the picture entirely. You no longer have any input
>>into the course of what happens.

> Criminal investigation does not limit the possibility of civil charges
> being filed. Even conviction doesn’t stop that.

>>But you see here that in a criminal investigation the call to my father will
>>be investigated. Army, Marine, Purple Heart, Police officer, Grand Knight of
>>the KofC, Officer of several S&Ls and he will report what happened in the best
>>police detail. The instant they talk to him the investigation turns around.

> Gee, given all his honors he must be pretty disappointed in you…

Have you ever spent any time when you jump at every phone call with the
expectation of it being the last bad news about him there can be? Do you
really think I feel kindly towards you or anyone who makes comments like that
about him? Do you think there was anything but rage after hearing about this
phone call?

Do you consider that response unnatural?

Or is this a new phase of your harrassment campaign?

> Actually, all he can do is testify to the contents of the phone call.
> If he is honest (not a given being that he is related to you), there
> won’t be all that much interesting to come from the interview.

You mean there will be in interest in a person identifying himself as Ken
McVay called him?

And then it follows that I attempted to email McVay to get to the bottom of it
and I find a bot at his address rejecting my email. So he refused contact
with me. So I go public with the best information I have. And as soon as I
have different information I post that. I have no way to contact that is not
on my LD bill.

I still have no idea who contacted him.

>>If you have been part of it, my best advice is to back out as quickly as
>>possible. But then you will posture here and ignore good advice.

> It’s not good advice; it’s a desperate plea from a doomed man.

Another threat?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:31 PDT 1996
Article: 53300 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Real mass extermination, this.
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:07:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Closer to the truth is the Encyclopaedia Judaica, which maintains that 37,000
perished in the camp before the British takeover, and another 14,000
afterwards.

“Bergen-Belsen,” Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971), vol. 4, pp. 610-612

It is amazing what you can learn about Belsen if you get away from the kind of
things that Keren posts.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53303 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:28:31 GMT
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 1996 18:38:38 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>>>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>>>was his lowest score.
>> That is correct, jerkoff and Alec, if he is in an honest mood, will
>>tell you my opinion of such tests,

> What is your opinion of such tests?

That they are an exercise in taking tests. That dawned on me when reading The
Bell Curve. That idea answered a long standing question I had in getting 163
on one test and 190 something on another.

The lower score was on a test created by committee, so to speak so that the
problems were of different types.

The higher score on a test made by one person with exactly the same type of
problem to be solved.

That also explained why on the latter test I got the last and hardest problem
solved the fastest, experience with the type of problem.

> If you believe they are of little or no value, why did you post your
>IQ?

I was asked what it was.

> If you believe they are of significant value, why did you not realise
>that posting your IQ does not automatically mean you are right almost all the
>time?

Why was I asked what it was? Someone must have thought it relevent.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53310 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:10:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:11:50 PM PDT 1996
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:55:11 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

># When I first asked about this there was a claim there were
># women in the SS. It was explained they were hired low life
># women from the town and one of the descriptions that was
># given of them was prostitute.

>They were indeed low-life scum, most of them, but they
>were not prostitutes, to the best of my knowledge.

Just what other occupation did unmarried women have in those days? It was not
quite the days of women’s liberation. But in any event that is what was
posted.

If they were in fact as you describe then certainly food for sex is still a
quite reasonable explanation, particular with hunger as the motivation.

>## Name one SS-man or one SS-woman in the camps who starved
>## to death. One.

># If that is to be the game, name some inmates who did.

>Bad, bad analogy. None of you nazi-boys denies that the
>inmates died, in Belsen alone, by the tens-of-thousands.

>Give any evidence whatsoever that one SS-men or SS-woman
>died of starvation in any camp.

The game is still names. I would not think you would be denying that some of
the SS and hired women (not SS women, we have been over that) died of disease.
That towards the end hunger would certainly be a contributing cause to any
deaths that occurred.

But then, you only thing you have in support of your position is the picture
of the women. To cover that up you want names. How about pictures of the SS
men at least?

># It was explained they were hired low life women from the town

>They were not from the town; most of them had also been
>in Auschwitz, and were transferred to Belsen together with
>the SS-men like Kramer, Hoessler, Dr. Klein etc.

There was not a town near A-B? The explanation that was posted was not that
clear.

>## The Brits used the river’s water. They were fit to drink.

># And who told you that one? Or did you make it up yourself?

>It’s mentioned in “The Belsen Trial”.

You will post that and include the part where it indicated they drank it
directly without any form of purification or processing?

># You mean the encyclopedia got the 14,000 wrong? Were the
># Brits that bad?

>The Brits were not bad; these people were in such bad shape that
>it was impossible to save them.

You mean they all died from the results of starvation? Or are you going to
let disease be considered?

>The testimony you quote from 1944 is not relevant to the mass
>murder that took place in Belsen in 1945.

>All your lame-brained excuses cannot cover up the fact that
>over 50,000 people died there.

So lets us review the bidding. 37,000 before and 14,000 after surrender. Two
and a half times more. Before surrender all transportation broke down. After
surrender the Brits did everything they could but still so many died.

So the “mass murder” devolves to exactly the conditions I have been describing
without needing to invoke anything else.

># You apparently have a very limited knowledge of the subject
># and of the conditions of war in general and this war in particular.

>No excuses can cover up for over 50,000 who died there.

51,000, with 14,000 due to the Brits.

This is
>the bottom line: over 50,000 people, whose only crime was that
>they were Jews, died in Belsen, because the Nazis didn’t think
>it was worthy to waste good food – and water – on them.

It remains your fantasy that all facilities and transportation were completely
uneffected despite the negotiations for the surrender of the camp that
centered exactly upon the conditions you claim were deliberate.

And you avoid descriptions by people who were inmates in the camp that
corroborate what I am talking about.

>There was no such death among the Germans, or among Allied
>POW’s. They were not regarded as “sub-humans”, and so they were
>fed and given water to drink.

>That’s it; that’s the story. You can stand on the graves and
>make your excuses as long as you want, but the silence of the
>dead speaks louder than you.

The words of the living speak much louder than the dead.

Marika Frank Abrams, a Jewish woman from Hungary, was transferred from
Auschwitz in 1944. Years later she recalled her arrival at Belsen: “… We
were each given two blankets and a dish. There was running water and latrines.
We were given food that was edible and didn’t have to stand for hours to be
counted. The conditions were so superior to Auschwitz we felt we were
practically in a sanitarium.”

=====

Also, in light of your opinion, how do you explain this rather strange order?

When SS chief Heinrich Himmler learned of the typhus outbreak at
Bergen-Belsen, he immediately issued an order to all appropriate officials
requiring that “all medical means necessary to combat the epidemic should be
employed … There can be no question of skimping either with doctors or
medical supplies.” However, the general breakdown of order that prevailed
on Germany by this time made it impossible to implement the command.

Andre Biss, A Million Jews to Save (New York: A.S. Barnes, 1975), pp. 242,
249-250; Felix Kersten, The Kersten Memoirs, 1940-1945 (New York: Macmillan,
1957), p. 276.

Note that it is from the head bad guy himself.

=====

And you would ignore Kramer’s own message that he sent that was introduced at
his trial.

In a March 1, 1945, letter to Gruppenführer (General) Richard Glücks, head of
the SS camp administration agency, Commandant Kramer reported in detail on the
catastrophic situation in the Bergen-Belsen, and pleaded for help:

If I had sufficient sleeping accommodation at my disposal, then the
accommodation of the detainees who have already arrived and of those still to
come would appear more possible. In addition to this question a spotted fever
and typhus epidemic has now begun, which increases in extent every day. The
daily mortality rate, which was still in the region of 60-70 at the beginning
of February, has in the meantime attained a daily average of 250-300 and will
increase still further in view of the conditions which at present prevail.

Supply. When I took over the camp, winter supplies for 1500 internees had
been indented for; some had been received, but the greater part had not been
delivered. This failure was due not only to difficulties of transport, but
also to the fact that practically nothing is available in this area and all
must be brought from outside the area …

For the last four days there has been no delivery [of food] from Hannover
owing to interrupted communications, and I shall be compelled, if this state
of affairs prevails till the end of the week, to fetch bread also by means of
truck from Hannover. The trucks allotted to the local unit are in no way
adequate for this work, and I am compelled to ask for at least three to four
trucks and five to six trailers. When I once have here a means of towing then
I can send out the trailers into the surrounding area … The supply question
must, without fail, be cleared up in the next few days. I ask you,
Gruppenführer, for an allocation of transport …

State of Health. The incidence of disease is very high here in proportion
to the number of detainees. When you interviewed me on Dec. 1, 1944, at
Oranienburg, you told me that Bergen-Belsen was to serve as a sick camp for
all concentration camps in north Germany. The number of sick has greatly
increased, particularly on account of the transports of detainees that have
arrived from the East in recent times — these transports have sometimes spent
eight or fourteen days in open trucks …

The fight against spotted fever is made extremely difficult by the lack of
means of disinfection. Due to constant use, the hot-air delousing machine is
now in bad working order and sometimes fails for several days …

A catastrophe is taking place for which no one wishes to assume
responsibility … Gruppenführer, I can assure you that from this end
everything will be done to overcome the present crisis …

I am now asking you for your assistance as it lies in your power. In
addition to the above-mentioned points I need here, before everything,
accommodation facilities, beds, blankets, eating utensils — all for about
20,000 internees … I implore your help in overcoming this situation.

and

“I have reached the limit. Masses of people are dying. The drinking water
supply has broken down. A trainload of food was destroyed by low-flying
[Allied] war planes. Something must be done immediately.”

Signed report by retired Colonel (Oberst a.D.) Hanns Schmidt to Kurt Mehner
and Lt. Colonel Bechtold, Braunschweig, March 3, 1981.

=====

Rather than look at what really happened you would prefer to wallow in the
post war media hype about camp conditions. How do you expect to learn
anything about what happened if that is all you do?

Anyone can find this material.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:33 PDT 1996
Article: 53311 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:16:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 4:17:41 PM PDT 1996
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On 25 Jul 1996 10:14:59 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>># Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by
>>># X-Rays by the Nazis.
>>
>>>Just for the record, how do you know this? I will try
>>>and consult some sources to see if, indeed, no such
>>>person was found.
>>
>>>Considering that the experiments took place in Auschwitz,
>>>it is very possible that no one was found; I don’t know,
>>>and I will try to find out.
>>
>> Perhaps you will find the X-Ray machine at least?

> And just what would that prove, seeing as X-ray machines have
>perfectly ordinary uses? Trolling, trolling….

>>>Moreover, the Nazi doctors arrived at the conclusion
>>>that the method didn’t work that well, and that surgical
>>>castration is better.
>>
>> None of that kind found either.

> How do you know this? Making it up as you go, of course.

>>>But this is not the major issue; the major issue is that
>>>a leading Nazi official, Oberfuehrer Victor Brack, asked
>>>that not *all* Jews be killed, but that 20-30 percent will
>>>be spared and used for slave labor, after being sterilized.
>>
>> So where are they among the survivors?
>>
>>>This is the main point, and it’s a document, which,
>>>apparently, “revisionists” now acknowledge to fall within
>>>the realm of physical evidence.
>>
>> I speak only for myself. I am still looking for real physical
>>evidence that it actually happened.

> That is a lie. You are at best waiting for it to be spoonfed to you –
>but when you are presented with evidence you just try to change the
>subject. Were you truly looking you would get off your fat ass and into a
>library.

Rather you would have me conduct a fruitless search for what does not exist.

> By the way – what would “physical evidence” of an _unsuccessful_ X-ray
>castration attempt be? The unsterile man? In that case you too would be
>physical evidence unless you are lying about having a son. The X-ray
>machine? In that case every hospital contains physical evidence of an
>X-ray castration experiment. Photos of someone pointing a weird device at
>the genitals? How do you know X-rays are coming out of it or what the
>purpose is?

That puts x-ray machines in the same category with fumigants and showerheads
with stolen copper plumbing, does it not?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:34 PDT 1996
Article: 53315 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 03:10:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 96 16:40:28, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[auschwitz:myths and facts] [Thu 25 Jul 96 00:27][Thu 25 Jul 96 15:40][0]*>

> >> Ummm – Matt, what’s so hard about this? That plenty of people
> >> knew is not a surprise. That the Nazis supressed as much as
> >> they did is not a surprise. Why can’t both happen?

> mnc> A is A.

>Non-sequitur.

>Also no answer.

>Thank you for admitting that you have no response.

I would have thought pointing out that it could not have both been a secret in
the camp and that everyone in the camp knew would be obvious to you.

> mnc> Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a
> mnc> miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp.
> mnc> In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born

>I can repeat better than you can, Matt.

>Is that your only response?

>A childish “NYA NYA”?

>FWIW – I’ve accidentally drunk what should have been a lethal dose
>of more than one chemical in my life. I’m still around.

You have had a strange life. How do you account for it? Or are you refering
to the LD50 rather than the dose that would kill thousands of others but not
you?

>So?

Six times? And when the other stories, such as finding a child alive meant
they were shot?

> mnc> When people get gassed six times and live to tell about, I
> mnc> do not consider it paranoia.

>No – just luck.

>Jeez! Have you thought of putting on a comedy act? We could make a
>killing! I’d have to shorten my name and we’d need a snappy title,
>but with your tendency to put foot in mouth…

>How about “Gryn and Bozo?”

Just luck. That is a fascinating technical opinion. If the man is still
alive he needs be found and studied for his natural immunity to HCN. Hell,
the SS would have been studying him, maybe turned over to Mengele for
disection.

What is fascinating that so many like you will use the “just luck” rather than
dismiss the entire story for the nonsense it is. It is this passionate
attraction to stories that bear no relation to reality that fascinates me.

And you know it is ridiculous.

Yet you post in support of it.

It does not make the least sense.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53323 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:18:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 24 Jul 1996 16:12:24 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>>> [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
>>> Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
>>> post about Nizkor?
>> A specific threat of extra legal reprisals. That makes his original
>>post extortion.

> Hmmm… seems like Matt is playing the schoolyard bully!

> (Will Matt try to sue me for saying that? It’ll be amusing to see him
>try!)

And just for the record, I did attempt to contact Mr. McVey about this matter.
He refused discussion. That of course was before I went public.

But you know that.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53328 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:58:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 96 16:37:48, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[auschwitz:myths and facts] [Thu 25 Jul 96 00:09][Thu 25 Jul 96 15:40][0]*>

> >> ERCO is not wood-pulp.

> >> But – you knew that.

> mnc> And you also know that wood pulp was the carrier in the
> mnc> formulation used for vermin. What is your problem with that?

>We are talking about gassing Jews, not Belgian-Americans.

We are still talking about the type used for gassing vermin. Nizkor-like
insult attempts do not change that.

> mnc> If you wish to post documentation as the to application of
> mnc> the type using ERCO as a carrier (and what ERCO is) you are free
> mnc> to do so.

>Already done. Why waste bandwidth?

What has been done is that a short translation indentifying four different
carriers for the same material. Nothing in that translation posted discussed
the application of each type of carrier.

Before the Degesh Pub was posted the people saying they had a copy claimed it
supported them but refused to post it claiming translation delays. When I
found a translation and posted it, it turned out that not only was there no
support for anything blue but the wood pulp was clearly identfied as the
carrier for the fumigant application.

Nothing has been posted as to the application of the “erco” carrier
formulation.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53344 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic groups
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:28:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 25 Jul 96 16:30:41 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:

>> > [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
>>
>>
>> > C’mon, Matt–why in the hell would anyone want to post Plessy v.
>> > Ferguson? Are your research skills so poor that you can’t find
>> > one of the most famous cases in the history of the US Supreme
>> > Court?
>>
>> Al Baron couldn’t.

>I did, arsehole. The point I was making with regard to Brown v Topeka was the
>perversion of the rule of law in the United States by powerful, vested
>interests hostile to the survival of Western Man. If you don’t believe such
>perversion exists and that the rule of law hasn’t been thrown out of the window
>I would suggest Mr Yale oy vay Edeiken that you take a look in the New York
>Times for July 3 under the Supreme Court decisions on civil asset forfeiture.
>After that absolutely incredible ruling (the “lawful” seizure of an innocent
>person’s property) all it will take is a subtle change in the wind and every
>Jewish and Zionist organisation in the United States can be flushed down
>the toilet on a whim from the White House. Or any other group for that matter.
>You can whine and wail all you like about “anti-Semitism” but the mechanism
>of tyranny is already in place in the good ol’ US of A, and it is people like
>you who have helped to erect it.

It would be a good thing if more people realized it.

Consider this. We have one data point on the infiltration of “militias” from
the apparently non-existent Viper Militia. One in twelve work for the
government in one way or another. And that is where the government focuses
its attention while Flt. 800 goes down. And after that infiltration, none of
them are charged with any terrorist activity.

It is interesting where the government has put its attention.

Druggies all over the White House, Mena shipping drugs the governor knows
about and drug policy is in shambles.

But confiscation of property, is a good cause, bought with profits from
illegal activities is up from grabs. That means any illegal activity that
results in a profit is up for grabs. Confiscation of property used in any
criminal activity has been up for grabs since Prohibition at least.

It appears in fact there is nothing left but to define illegal a bit
differently and property confiscation is back in style. That was used in
Roman times to encourage suicide to save the property for the family. It also
conveniently avoided a trial.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:37 PDT 1996
Article: 53346 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUL 19-21: 14.8% / 22.3%
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:06:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 24 Jul 1996 05:04:13 -0700, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

> “…we may be able to firmly re-establish this as a conference on
> revisionism. That is, make it useless to the hijackers.”
> – Matt Giwer, June 21, 1996

>Matt Giwer has singlehandedly taken over alt.revisionism. With trolls,
>with insults, with straight-lines, with idiocy, with three-word
>responses, with lies, and even with an occasional worthwhile point,
>he has buried the signal under an avalanche of noise.
AG appears of the opinion that you folks who have gotten together and hatched
this claim that he considers to be untrue and to have posted it in several NGs
and to my service provider are guilty of prima facia conspiracy to spread
false information.

Is there anything you folks have to say in your own defense?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:38 PDT 1996
Article: 53361 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:31:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:01:02, [email protected] (DEMOS) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> r
>>>> What a load of junk! Anyone who was in the militiary like McVeigh
>>>> would have learned the rudiments of bomb-making at least, and with
>>>> a few suitable recipes, a few suitable scaled experiments, could
>>>> have packed a truck full of goo and exploded it wherever they liked.
>>>> The only issues are the composition, the consistency, passing a
>>>> high-velocity wave through it and boom! The mines use stuff like
>>this
>>>> all the time. Most of the electronics are easily purchased from
>>>> stores like Radio Shack.
>>>
>>>It was a fertilizer bomb in OK City.
>>>
>>>Andrew

>> We can’t find Timothy McVeigh guilty without trial…..It seems
>>unlikely that he worked alone, if he had any part in it at all….

>> ….some have suggested the Arabs, and some have stated that the
>>Jewish Defense League may have been responsible for that cowardly
>>act….It is the sin of America that we support the Jews in the
>>Middle-East….We have created problems with the Arabs that should not
>>be….The Christian position should be neutrality….Perhaps with
>>prayer, our government will relinquish our policy of supporting the
>>Jews…..Then the blessings of Yahweh would return to our land.

>> …We should really give McVeigh and Nichols the benefit of the
>>doubt….They are innocent until proven guilty, you know?

>> I don’t know where you heard that a veteran knows the rudiments of
>>bomb making……I’m a veteran, and I don’t know how to make a
>>bomb….Neither do most of the veterans I know…

>> ….I want to see you go to Radio Shack and come out with the
>>materials needed to make a bomb like the one used in OK City.

>I can go to radio shack right now (never being in the military) and construct
>any type of timer or remote detonator anyone would need in such situation,

Radio Shack sells explosives? Aren’t you missing something essential besides
the electronics?

as
>for the government you are the victim of being hit to hard in the head while
>you served because if you knew anything at all about this country its the
>government of the U.S takes a neutral stand against religion! Also why the
>fuck would the jewish defense league want to bomb that building? (hell, i dont
>even think there is a jewish person in all of OK!)

Rather a different question. Why is Morris Dees going to such lengths to stir
up problems for citizen militia groups? And I mean to the extreme that he
identifies a organization of teenagers who study Indian ways as a militia
organization?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53364 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:16:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 1996 12:01:24 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 23 Jul 1996 10:20:55 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J. Green)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>> And remember we have even been informed that the tearing agent was
>>>>>removed. Of course those who said it failed to note the date was years
>>>>>earlier.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong AGAIN, Matt. The indicator was removed in 1944. The Kremas
>>> ^^^^^^^^^
>>>>commenced operation in 1943. Tell us again about “years earlier?”
>>
>>>Don’t you mean that the lachrymogen was removed?
>>
>> 1941 actually. It cut costs and they used all the detectors
>>everyone makes such an issue of.

> Once again, this is merely a symptom of Mr. Giwer’s illiteracy or
>early-onset Alzheimer’s (or an outright lie). The amount of lachrymogen
>was _reduced_ in 1941. But not reduced to zero. The complete elimination
>came in 1944.

Do you enjoy making these things up? Or can you document the reduction first
and then separate elimination?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:39 PDT 1996
Article: 53365 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:16:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 25 Jul 1996 11:57:12 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Richard J. Green wrote:
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>> And remember we have even been informed that the tearing agent was
>>>>removed. Of course those who said it failed to note the date was years
>>>>earlier.
>>>
>>> Wrong AGAIN, Matt. The indicator was removed in 1944. The Kremas
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>>>commenced operation in 1943. Tell us again about “years earlier?”
>>
>>Don’t you mean that the lachrymogen was removed?

> That is exactly what I meant, yes – the lachrymogen used as an
>indicator to warn people to clear the area in case of a leak, not a
>humidity indicator.

And don’t forget that Keren swears it caused a hacking cough also.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 26 05:08:40 PDT 1996
Article: 53366 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:24:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 02:33:23 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article
>,
>[email protected] wrote:

>[snip]

>> So ,is it possible that zyklon _with_ the irritant might have been used on
>> occasion for murder?

>I think it is likely that the initial “experiment(s)” in Block 11 were
>done with Zyklon B that included the lachrymal. Probably the initial
>gassings in Krema I as well.

You mean where it was simply thrown in and the people died instantly?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:13 PDT 1996
Article: 53376 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Bendel Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 06:16:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 11:17:35 PM PDT 1996
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On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:37:57 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren”
>writes:
>>
>> > Testimony of Doctor Charles Bendel
>> > [Quoted in “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
>> > and Company, 1949, p. 132-133]
>> > —————————————————————-
>> > Now it is proper hell which is starting. The sonderkommando tries to
>> > work as fast as possible. They drag the corpses by their wrists in
>> > furious haste. People who had human faces before, I cannot recognize
>> > again. They are like devils. A barrister from Salonica, an electrical
>> > engineer from Budapest – they are no longer human beings because,
>> > even during the work, blows from sticks and rubber truncheons are being
>> > showered over them. During the time this is going on they continue to
>> > shoot people in front of these ditches, people who could not be got
>> > into the gas chambers because they were over-crowded. After an hour
>> > and a half the whole work has been done and a new transport has been
>> > dealt with in Crematorium No. 4.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Was that before or after they had extracted 17 tons of gold from the teeth
>> of the victims? Keren, are you a complete tosser?

>From _Technique_, p.470; account by Dr. Bendel, cf. _Temoignages sur
>Auschwitz, Editions de l’Amicles des de’porte’s d’ Auschwitz, 10 rue
>Leroux, Paris 16, 1946. pp.159-164:

>”The Nazis often, both in propaganda and in official speeches, expressed
>their contempt for gold, but this did not prevent them from recovering
>from their victims, between the coming into service of the Krematorien and
>the month of November 1944, the month in which they ceased to operate,
>seventeen tons of the precious yellow metal.”

>From _Technique_, p.472; extract from NI-11953:

>—————————————————————————

Fascinating is it not? I have not confirmed this but I happened to catch Dr.
Dean Adell (sp?) reading from something he received from some Cremation
Society. One of the things he read was that the return of metal is by special
request. This does appear to be the standard procedure.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:14 PDT 1996
Article: 53385 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:40:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:48:33, [email protected] (DEMOS) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Vyshinsky)

>>snip

>If you dont know the “blueprint” for the bomb was in that book you didnt read
>it! McVeigh IS a racist and did distribute and preach that book.

The prosecution alleges that he had some interest in that book. The REASON
for the interest has yet to be made public. One of the rather interesting
points is that if the FBI thinks they have a case for a person being racist,
they shout to any media who will listen as in the Randy Weaver case. They
have made no such claim in this case.

There is no
>CIA plot to blow up the building, the guy clearly did it with fertilizer and
>fuel with a tnt igniter im sure,

Mr. Bomb Expert, how do you ignite the TNT? Presuming you mean dynamite that
it. And if not, where does one get TNT? Or will you whip up some in your
basement?

>if the CIA was to do it they would use C4 and
>dupont ™ caps and wrap that whole thing in det cord just to make it look
>good. The way he did it was so simple any farmer could tell you the recipe or
>just read the book! And futhermore, posting the book would of course be a
>copyright violation so thats out of the question,also why make it easy for
>someone to read in usenet,

The Anarchist Cookbook is a Clinton era hippie cookbook.

Or were you referring to the 6% by weight fuel oil to ammonium nitrate
mixture? Is there any other information you are missing?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53424 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days…
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 01:04:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 8:05:23 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 1996 15:32:47 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 24 Jul 1996 11:52:57 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC)
>>wrote:
>>>Close – try the United States Attorney and the FBI (Tampa), rather than
>>>the State AG. They seem to take a very dim view of international extortion.
>>
>>>..which reminds me… I’m flying south on business tomorrow, to speak with
>>>some folks who find Mr. Giwer’s articles of more than casual interest, and
>>>may not have access for a few days – I’ll catch up on my email from the
>>>hotel, once I get settled.
>>
>> Golly. And I am worth such an expense. A telephone will not do.

> Now, where did he say you were the only, or even principal, topic of
>dicussion? In fact, where did he say that you were on the agenda at all?
>Nowhere, of course.

Where is anything else mentioned? And days?

> You bit like a brainless fish. Dresdenhuggers are very stupid.

You keep missing the point. I am not in the least interested in what your
position on Dresden is. It is not my mission in life to preserve the memory
of Dresden.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:56:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4ss7b4$9o3 <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 7:57:32 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80599 alt.revisionism:53436

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:12:40 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (George F. Hardy) writes:

># Has there been an accurate count of the number? 6,000,000
># Jews was claimed early, the number sort of picked out of the air.

>Sigh. And your evidence that it was “sort of picked out of the air”?

The immutable IMT number of course. It never changes.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:16 PDT 1996
Article: 53446 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:46:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 9:48:03 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 25 Jul 96 16:29:48, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[The THE himself] [Wed 24 Jul 96 22:21][Thu 25 Jul 96 15:40][0]*>

> >> Do you really believe that the FBI does not consider your
> >> threats as threats? Do you really believe that they would buy
> >> your lies?

> mnc> You really mean they took it as a serious threat that I was
> mnc> going to mobilize half the Marine Corp? Are you sure you got
> mnc> the right number? Or did you talk to Janet Reno?

>You truly refuse to see it, don’t you, Matt?

>If you make a threat of violence, then it is the threat and not the
>possibility alone that interests the police.

>Suppose you said “If Grynspan was in this room, I’d rip his guts out
>with my bare hands.” If the police get hold of that, you’d pray
>*REAL HARD* that I don’t have even a slightly suspicious accident.

My hands aren’t that big.

>That’s in Canada. In the US, it’s even worse!

>Why do you think I know that Dahlman didn’t report any threats? The
>cops keep records for 20 years!

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:17 PDT 1996
Article: 53457 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:26:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 9:27:27 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:54:03 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> > There is a strong philosophy of free and open speech here. But I
>> > predict the day is coming very soon where Matt Giwer will simply
>> > disappear from alt.revisionism forever. Very soon.
>>
>> That is neither the first time it has been predicted nor the first time you
>> have predicted it.
>>
>> Or shall I take this as a threat under the laws of Canada?

>You may get an opportunity to examine the Canadian justice system up close
>and person…at the leisure of the Crown.

>Perhaps you can discuss who exactly is referred to by the term “the Crown”
>as you did a few months back with several members of the Canadian bar.

You appear to be saying the state of Canadian justice is quite poor.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53459 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:27:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:28:50 AM PDT 1996
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On 23 Jul 1996 14:15:27 GMT, [email protected](Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) writes:
>>
>> McFlea, McFly, it does not matter.
>> This fool clams to be in his 50s and has the intellecutal age
>of a teenager.
>>
>> Beyond that, he is a greate defend of what he is
>incapable of understandiug.
>> After all, he is a mongoloid idiot behind a
>keyboard.
>>
>Well, Giwer — when you have nothing left but personal attacks, you are
>sitting at the botom of the barrel looking up. Why waste bandwidth
>with this type of tripe. Obviously you have been bested in a fair
>fight, and have no ammunition left to continue the battle. Be a man
>and admit defeat. Better yet, take your ball and bat and go home.

It is rather difficult to explain to a fatbroad such as yourself. I would
suggest you read for a while and learn how things are done by men. When you
can compete, bet back in the game. You are not handicapped for being a woman,
only because you are a woman and out of your league.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53460 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 03:15:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 8:16:19 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:43:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Alexander Baron writes:
># [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:

>## Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>## Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>## Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.

># A typical Exterminationist tactic is to use the above as
># “proof” that the Nazis gassed Jews in Auschwitz.

>I never claimed this. The photos do demonstrate, however,
>that the Nazis regarded the inmates as “sub-humans”, and did
>not find it necessary to move a finger in order to keep them
>alive. They simply let them die.

Quite strange that Himmler would give a “spare no effort” order to save them
when he heard of the epidemics if he considered them “sub-human.”

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:19 PDT 1996
Article: 53503 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:06:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 26 2:07:46 AM CDT 1996
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On 25 Jul 1996 22:22:10 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>Are you ready to get back to actually discussing the terrible effects of
>>gassing such as the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing that it the effect
>>of cyanide?

> Perhaps you could for the first time find the witness who said such a
>thing.

> Now pay real close attention, Matt. Focus very hard here.

> I said witness.

Benard Naumann reports it.

> I did not say writer who exaggerated the words of a witness.

> Do you think you can figure out the difference between the two? It
>would be greatly appreciated.

What I do not see is the difference between witnesses who make it up and
writers who exaggerate.

When it is pointed out that the witnesses report things that can not happen,
that are contradictory and such you folks defend them as gospel.

Now you want to try to blame the writer for the report when that has only been
a peripheral issue.

I have posted Hoess himself reporting one his witnessing the first gassing
wearing a gas mask, the gas being thrown in and the people dying instantly.
Where were you questioning that witness?

I have a witness who was gassed six times and lived to tell about it. Where
were you then? And before you repeat the criticism, he is in the same age
range and Elie Wiesel at the time and he is gospel.

So why the sudden interest in the writer when you have demonstrated no
interest in the direct quotations of the people who spoke the ridiculous words
in the first place?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:20 PDT 1996
Article: 53509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A SINCERE APOLOGY
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:00:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 2:01:57 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 17:16:16 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Matt Giwer did not write:

>>I feel that I must apologize for my dyslexic rantings for the past few
>>days. […]

> Hi, Marduk! What a coincidence – I was just wondering where you were
>these days, and here you are!

You should be aware that idirect fired him and now netcom is after him. By
clearly identifying him as a netcom employee with root access your are
hastening his trip to the dole.

Why would you want to do this to him? Why would you also want to strengthen
the holohugger conspiracy case?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:20 PDT 1996
Article: 53531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: INTERNEES-spot the difference
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 02:50:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 9:51:59 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:04:43 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>[snip]

>> Check German nationals in WW1, however, as well as German-Americans.
>> Also, I believe the situation was different in Britain.

>An interesting claim. My paternal grandmother’s family was German and

German nationals?

>though there was considerable anti-Kaiser sentiments in the U.S. during
>WWI

During WW I, but prior to it there was question as to which side the US should
fight for.

(serious enough that her father forbid the family to speak German
>except at the dinner table), she tells no tales of the U.S. Government
>herding German-American’s, en masse, off to the KZ.

But not being a German national …

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:21 PDT 1996
Article: 53585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 03:24:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 8:26:03 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:48:45 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:35:20 -0800, [email protected] (Rajiv K.
>> Gandhi) wrote:
>>

>[stuff deleted]

>> >That information was provided to InterNIC, not to you. Your publishing
>> >that information was at the least improper, since he in no way authorized
>> >you to publish that information on the Usenet. Whether not Mr. McVay
>> >wanted the information public is besides the point; the fact is that YOU
>> >were not authorized to print that information.
>>
>> Where is it written that authorization is needed? Or did you
>just make this
>> up? (That was a rhetorical question.)

>Well, first off, you’re an idiot. But to answer your rhetorical question
>which in fact is not a rhetorical question but a stupid question,
>information which was not provided to you and which was not paced in the
>public domain is not yours. For you to publish that information without
>authorization was a breach of ettiquette. If you doubt me, start printing
>information fro your local telephone book on the Internet and see how fast
>the telephone company jumps on your head.

It was placed into the public domain successively by McVay and then InterNIC.
Go query a few of them. All of that does not have to be public.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:22 PDT 1996
Article: 53636 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:06:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:07:08 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 96 11:56:38, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[listen up, Alec G.] [Tue 23 Jul 96 05:12][Tue 23 Jul 96 10:47][0]*>

> >> commercials for their respective sides. Who knows, if there
> >> are lurkers out there — *if* — they might even read
> >> the respective web sites or even read some books. That would
> >> be something.

> mnc> Well said and it is about time Alec learns the goundrules of
> mnc> this conference.

>I know the groundrules, Matt. I was here long before you.

>You should learn them, too.

>Would you like proof that I’ve been here before you? I can send you
>proof – repeated until you admit it.

>All you have to do is ask, Matt.

Why should I have to learn MY rules?

Have you missed the people who have admitted I control this NG?

If so, why have you missed it?

You ain’t jack shit.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:22 PDT 1996
Article: 53637 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:06:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-08.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 6:07:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 03:57:11 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> Where do you think potatoes came from?

> When did potatoes become part of a Seder?

They were named as part of Seder, idiot. Read the find thread.

From [email protected].com Sat Jul 27 11:58:23 PDT 1996
Article: 53643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:47:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:48:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:33:18 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Why should I have to learn MY rules?

>Need you ask? Even those you have trouble with.

>>
>> Have you missed the people who have admitted I control this NG?

>No – but who said that they were right?

>>
>> If so, why have you missed it?

>I never miss, Matt – not in the long run.

>>
>> You ain’t jack shit.

>I never said that I was like you.

From your vast experience you know that “I’m not but you are” is commonly a
prohibited form of response because of its very nature.

>Now you’re trying to behave like some little kid who doesn’t want to
>admit that the reason he’s not on the club team is because nobody wants
>a loser – so he pretends that the rest of the world is the loser.

>GROW UP, MATT!

Would you like to get back to the descriptions of cyanide poisoning not
matching the results of cyanide poisoning?

Would you like to get back to all the mutually conflicting to impossible
stories upon which the gassing claim is based?

Or do you wish to continue posting like this so I have to overuse my N key?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:24 PDT 1996
Article: 53673 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brack Offers to Kill ‘Only’ 80% Of Jews, Spare Others for Forced Labor Summary:
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:13:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 4:13:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 11:51:30 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 25 Jul 1996 10:14:59 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:15:42 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>>>
>>>>># Not ONE person ever found deliberately sterilized by
>>>>># X-Rays by the Nazis.
>>>>
>>>>>Just for the record, how do you know this? I will try
>>>>>and consult some sources to see if, indeed, no such
>>>>>person was found.
>>>>
>>>>>Considering that the experiments took place in Auschwitz,
>>>>>it is very possible that no one was found; I don’t know,
>>>>>and I will try to find out.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you will find the X-Ray machine at least?
>>
>>> And just what would that prove, seeing as X-ray machines have
>>>perfectly ordinary uses? Trolling, trolling….
>>
>>
>>>>>Moreover, the Nazi doctors arrived at the conclusion
>>>>>that the method didn’t work that well, and that surgical
>>>>>castration is better.
>>>>
>>>> None of that kind found either.
>>
>>> How do you know this? Making it up as you go, of course.
>>
>>
>>>>>But this is not the major issue; the major issue is that
>>>>>a leading Nazi official, Oberfuehrer Victor Brack, asked
>>>>>that not *all* Jews be killed, but that 20-30 percent will
>>>>>be spared and used for slave labor, after being sterilized.
>>>>
>>>> So where are they among the survivors?
>>>>
>>>>>This is the main point, and it’s a document, which,
>>>>>apparently, “revisionists” now acknowledge to fall within
>>>>>the realm of physical evidence.
>>>>
>>>> I speak only for myself. I am still looking for real physical
>>>>evidence that it actually happened.
>>
>>> That is a lie. You are at best waiting for it to be spoonfed to you –
>>>but when you are presented with evidence you just try to change the
>>>subject. Were you truly looking you would get off your fat ass and into a
>>>library.
>>
>>Rather you would have me conduct a fruitless search for what does not exist.

> Once again: how do you know it does not exist if you have not even
>looked?

After years of looking around and then more years of asking for it, I can not
say I know that it does not exist. I can only say that NO ONE including YOU
knows of any.

I have asked for it many times. You are one of the many who have failed to
provide it. So why do you expect that I can find what not one holohugger has
been able to find?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:24 PDT 1996
Article: 53674 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:15:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 4:16:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 23:19:25 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

> Perhaps you would like to provide a few? After all with all of
> the horrors reported even by people claiming to have
> participated in them, we never come across even reports of
> castration much less actual examples of it.

>On 25 Jul 1996 06:04:42 GMT,
>[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) responded:

> Where have you looked? In the bottom drawer of your bureau?
> Under the pile of dirty socks in your bedroom?

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Where else would I look with an expectation of finding them?

>At least Mr. Giwer admits that he is incapable of doing research.

>Based on Mr. Giwer’s past performance, it is abundantly clear that he
>could not find the relevant data even if the source material was laid
>before him already open to the pertinent pages.

>And if he did manage to find the material by accident, he would only
>distort it, because he is more interested in flaming people than
>discovering the truth.

>In fact, in his long and notorious carreer in this newsgroup, Mr.
>Giwer has never once provided any evidence or citations to back up
>even a single one of his many assertions. He himself does not deny
>this, even as he demands such evidence and citations from others.

>Which makes Mr. Giwer a hypocrite, as well as a liar.

What is clear is that if there was any case whatsoever for any of this
nonsense the FIRST thing that would be presented would be the physical
evidence.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53675 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.ac.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:31:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:12:07 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 25 Jul 1996 18:38:38 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >>On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:02:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> >>>Remember folks, he says his IQ is 163. Moreover, I recall
>> >>>that he claims to have taken a few IQ tests and that 163
>> >>>was his lowest score.
>> >> That is correct, jerkoff and Alec, if he is in an honest mood, will
>> >>tell you my opinion of such tests,
>>
>> > What is your opinion of such tests?
>>
>> That they are an exercise in taking tests. That dawned on me when reading The
>> Bell Curve. That idea answered a long standing question I had in getting 163
>> on one test and 190 something on another.

>Oh yeah, 190, sure. How, did you copy the responses from the answer sheet?
>Given your demonstrated lack of reading comprehension it must have been one
>of those match the patterns tests because I doubt you could have answered
>any of the questions on the Mensa tests.

The 190 test was a personally administered and stopwatched test. It is the
puzzle test. So as not to skew the test, I will not give the anwer to the
final one.

It was solved in about 2 seconds including a satircal comment upon the result.

If you have a problem with that you need to answer just what are the “mensa”
tests and they accept all standardized tests by the SD. Do you have some
problem with that?

If so, tell them.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:26 PDT 1996
Article: 53681 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:53:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 144
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:37313 alt.politics.nationalism.white:26269 alt.revisionism:53681 alt.skinheads:33029

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:21:15 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:46:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>>>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>>> On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 20:09:10 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>>>> >”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt
>>>Giwer)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It sounds very familiar, fatbroad.
>>>
>>>Then why do you not take your own advice, Mr. Giwer and put up or shut up.
>>>
>>>A statement like “Ken McVay harassed my parents” is crying out for proof
>>>– especially when Andrew Mathis has already confessed and apologised for
>>>calling your parents.
>>>
>>>(Although there is *no* evidence of _harassment_ in Mr. Mathis’ apology,
>>>nor in his detailed description of his phone call.)

>> Sure. I get the second hand message that McVay knows their phone number and
>>therefore address.
>>
>Note: anyone with a library card can find out Matt Giwer’s parents
>address and phone number. This is not an invitation to call them,
>please note. For one thing, as Mr. Giwer has noted, his father is
>indeed a very old man. For another, his father will lie to protect
>him. But I suppose my father would do the same. No harm, no foul.

Do not call it lying. He evaded the call from Ken McVay. Prudence makes for
survivors in this world.

>>>So where is your apology to Mr. McVay?
>>>
>>>Where is your apology to me?
>>>
>>>And honestly, Mr. Giwer, don’t you think demeaning comments like
>>>”fatbroad” only make you look even more childish and petulant? Why make
>>>yourself a laughing stock? Not getting enough at home?

>> Yes, fatbroad, a matter I corrected the instant I received the email. Now of
>>one of the McVays has an issue with the accusation he knows who to deal with.
>>It is certainly not me.

>Is this to imply that he must deal now with me? I have news for you,
>Matt. Ken isn’t about to sue me. If anyone should sue me, it should
>be your parents. But thenagain, all I did was make a phone call, and
>did not in any way harrass them.

>> But at this point I do not know what the truth might be. I do know that a Ken
>>McVay called them. What this Mathis character has to do with it, I have no
>>idea other than what was in the message, if it was from his at all.

>Repeat: I called your parents and claimed to be Ken; I did not
>”harrass” your parents, as was the accusation. The only mistake I
>made was misrepresenting myself as Ken, for which I’ve apologized both
>publicly and privately to Ken, via e-mail and telephone. Also note: I
>e-mailed you the same apology I posted publicly. Did you not read
>it?

I did read it. The interesting point is of McVay will make full disclosure of
it. And also if you will do the same in court. And if you will explain why
you chose his name to use instead of your own. What could possibly have
motivated you other than to blame McVay for the phone call?

>Why did I call them, Matt? You claimed to be readily accessible via
>telephone books. I looked up Matt Giwer’s in America. There was
>exactly one listed. Your dad.

Why were you McVay? Why were you not yourself? My website is very well
advertised. There are “contact” links all over it. You see address and phone
number and proof positive I do not take a decent picture without a suit and
tie. How did you miss that?

You do realize that if there is any civil suit any losses by me get passed on
to you in the next suit.

>So I’ll give you some free advice:

It is worth what I pay for it.

>1) Don’t challenge people to contact you if it means your infirm
>father is going to get phone calls.

I did not. I said it was freely available. Everyone but you appears to know
my website. Why is that?

>2) Don’t sue Ken McVay or take any action against him, since you don’t
>have a leg to stand on. I have already told him I will sign a sworn
>affidavit that I phoned your parents and used his name.

That is correct. If he sues me, I sue you as the deliberate and willful
instigator of all of this. And in fact he should sue you also for any costs
he has incurred because of this.

>3) Visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and learn the real
>truth.

Their website does not have it. Keep that out of it. Mentioning it has
alread prejudiced your case.

>4) Get on with your life.

I am AFTER YOU who caused all of this.

WHY did you do it?

Why did you deliberately and willfully claim to be someone else whom you know
is libeling me on his website?

Why did you deliberately and willfully claim to be the person who is the
Director of the people whe agree in email how to harrass me in public and then
post about doing so in public?

Why would you do that?

Do you think taking the fall is noble?

Do not play with me. You chose to impersonate Ken McVay for a reason.

What was the reason?

Apologies to him are not an explanation to me.

Why did you do it?

So far as I can tell it sounds damned near malicious.

Give me a clear answer in public and I will drop it unless McVay continues
with his veiled threats.

And the question is,

Why in the world would do such a thing?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53684 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:02:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 4:03:11 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 19:19:15 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:21:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) writes:
>>
>>># Yes. Matt has argued, and I don’t see a hole in his
>>># argument, that the document he quotes on ZB specifically
>>># references wood snippets and NOT Erco cubes.
>>
>>>The book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, General Manager of Degesch,
>>>was published in 1933. It not only mentions the Erco carrier,
>>>it even has a photograph of the Erco pellets.
>>
>>The Degesh document SPECIFICALLY mentions the type used as a fumigant as
>>using wood pulp. There were certainly other types used for other
>>purposes.

> Your evidence? What do you think those purposes were?

I was the first to post it after others were claiming delays caused by
tranlation times. Do you need it posted again? But are you claiming there
was a specific “human” purpose to this? What other purpose might you be
imagining beyond what is written?

>>The book does NOT (at least as far a cited, meaning it
>>probably does some place else) connect carriers to usage.

> Would you like to look at the title of the book one of these
>centuries?

> “Schaedlingsbekaempfung.”

> Need help finding a German dictionary?

Of course I do. You know where to mail one. But that has nothing to do the
the specific purpose under discussion.

>>You can not change that. You can only and in honesty, post a section of
>>the book connecting the carrier with the usage. Or will I have to be
>>the one to find and post that also?

> Look at the TITLE, Matt.

> Are we keeping you awake?

No.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:28 PDT 1996
Article: 53685 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.2600,alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries Now Out From Barricade Books
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:01:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:37:48 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:48:33, [email protected] (DEMOS) wrote:

>>>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Vyshinsky)

>>>>snip

>>>If you dont know the “blueprint” for the bomb was in that book you didnt read
>>>it! McVeigh IS a racist and did distribute and preach that book.

>> The prosecution alleges that he had some interest in that book. The REASON
>>for the interest has yet to be made public. One of the rather interesting
>>points is that if the FBI thinks they have a case for a person being racist,
>>they shout to any media who will listen as in the Randy Weaver case. They
>>have made no such claim in this case.

>>There is no
>>>CIA plot to blow up the building, the guy clearly did it with fertilizer and
>>>fuel with a tnt igniter im sure,

>> Mr. Bomb Expert, how do you ignite the TNT? Presuming you mean dynamite that
>>it. And if not, where does one get TNT? Or will you whip up some in your
>>basement?

>>>if the CIA was to do it they would use C4 and
>>>dupont ™ caps and wrap that whole thing in det cord just to make it look
>>>good. The way he did it was so simple any farmer could tell you the recipe or
>>>just read the book! And futhermore, posting the book would of course be a
>>>copyright violation so thats out of the question,also why make it easy for
>>>someone to read in usenet,

>> The Anarchist Cookbook is a Clinton era hippie cookbook.
>>
>> Or were you referring to the 6% by weight fuel oil to ammonium nitrate
>>mixture? Is there any other information you are missing?

>The Anarchist Cookbook also contains bomb-making instructions.

Before you try any of them, let me tell you that I recommend it as the bible
for all terrorists.

1/3 of the recipes will kill the people following them. Another 1/3 do not
work.

That cuts the problems down by a factor of three.

Do you have a problem with that?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clean hands
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:02:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 5:03:56 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 02:44:04 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan
>wrote:

>> >He refuses to admit that he can’t have what he most desperately wants –
>> >to win at an argument thru superior ability.
>>
>> I noted some time ago that his constant lying is an admission that he
>> cannot win an argument legitimately.

> That is because he consistantly picks arguments in fields in which he
>has no expertise and the people with which he argues do. Now if he was to
>pick something he knows about — the relative merits of the various brands of
>bourbon, for example — he might have an unblemished record of victories.

Alec, Another exemple of the clean hands these folks have regarding libel.
And at one time it was much worse than this. Or is this sort of thing
considered acceptable under Canadian law?

Your honest opinion again.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53697 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:57:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 2:57:16 AM PDT 1996
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:11:06 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
># a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
># camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the
># French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the [Belsen]
># camp gas chamber at least six times.”

>The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

It is NOT incorrect. Alec Grynspan says it was luck. You two battle it out
and get back to me.

Until you to that, it stands as a MIRACLE.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:30 PDT 1996
Article: 53703 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:03:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 3:03:58 AM PDT 1996
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On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:01:15 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>## But the 1933 book by Dr. Gerhard Peters, general manager
>## of Degesch, shows photographs of the Erco carrier, and
>## it is indeed composed of small pellets.

># It does not matter. We have a specific reference to the
># specific type that is supposed to have been used.

>And we have a specific reference, plus a photograph, of the
>Erco carrier.

>It existed. Do us a favor, don’t claim it didn’t.

>Why do you think it was manufactured?

Sorry, dummy.

A plutonium bomb was possible but it was not used on Hiroshima.

That is the way it goes.

You don’t have shit.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:31 PDT 1996
Article: 53714 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:11:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 5:11:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 18:49:14 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:59:17 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>[deletion which I hope will not be considered excessive]

>>>> Excessive delitions spark great curiosity.

> You should study the revisionist writings sometime.

>>
>>>The rest of the posting is available. Go and get it, Matt.
>>
>>>You’re the one who refuses to provide URLs – particularly for stuff that
>>>doesn’t exist. Now *YOU* point to the deletion of excess and
>>>inconsequential material and hint at all sorts of things.
>>
>>>Stop being so damned paranoid!
>>
>>Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape
>>from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a
>>Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the
>>[Belsen] camp gas chamber at least six times.” The newspaper account went on
>>to relate: “Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women
>>and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn’t
>>know how he was able to survive.” In an effort to explain the miracle, Peer
>>mused: “Maybe children resist better, I don’t know.”
>>
>> When people get gassed six times and live to tell about, I do not
>>consider it paranoia.

> Peer was not testifying here. We were talking about deletions. Your
>reference to Peer is a non-sequitur.

> However, let’s just cut this short. You say Peer is a Holocaust
>survivor and a liar or fantasist, so no eyewitness can be trusted. Many
>documents came from Soviet sources and the Soviets were known to forge
>documents, so all documents are forged.

And of course Peer is no different from the rest of the “survivors” who
testify to such things. So what?

> Greg Raven denies gassing and he has told proven lies. Mark Weber
>denies gassing and has told proven lies by omission at least. The Lachout
>Document is a forgery. Therefore all revisionists must be considered
>liars and all revisionist evidence forgeries.

I don’t know of Raven other than his site.

> Works for me.

Your problem.

> When presented with a revisionist argument you don’t like, you say, “I
>speak for myself.” But you do not allow that same right to the witnesses.
>Any witness you cannot refute, you simply call up Peer and pretend that
>Peer invalidates the testimony of the other witness, that the other
>witness must speak for both himself and Peer. Why can I not call up Raven
>and use him to invalidate you? Your hypocrisy is in full bloom.

Peer is one of about two dozen I have cited in the last few months and I have
yet to find one “witness” who recounts ZB in accordance with its physical
properties, much less in relation to CO which only makes matters worse.

>>And then I was told that she survived Auschwitz ONLY because of her age and
>>that everyone younger than her was gassed immediately upon arrival. And then
>>I find other stories of younger children surviving.

> It depends on the date of arrival and a few other factors. Policies
>changed over time.

Excuse me but the evidence can not even show the policy much less its change
over time. Your statement is pure fabrication on your part.

>> Does the inconsistancy of the true truths never bother you?

> If you had oatmeal for breakfast today, are you being inconsistent if
>you tell me you had corn flakes for breakfast yesterday? Obviously you
>must think so.

Do you not think the difference between screaming and instanteos death is
significant?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Feminist Critique of the Holocaust
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 03:42:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 26 10:42:33 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

http://remember.org/educate/ccrit.html

Not only the usual feminist bullshit but clear evidence that “in house” the
atttitude towards the holocaust is rather completely off of the wall.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:32 PDT 1996
Article: 53723 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:20:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 5:20:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 18:11:34 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 25 Jul 96 16:37:48, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
>>
>>><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
>>><+[auschwitz:myths and facts] [Thu 25 Jul 96 00:09][Thu 25 Jul 96 15:40][0]*>
>>
>>> >> ERCO is not wood-pulp.
>>
>>> >> But – you knew that.
>>
>>> mnc> And you also know that wood pulp was the carrier in the
>>> mnc> formulation used for vermin. What is your problem with that?
>>
>>>We are talking about gassing Jews, not Belgian-Americans.
>>
>> We are still talking about the type used for gassing vermin. Nizkor-like
>>insult attempts do not change that.
>>
>>> mnc> If you wish to post documentation as the to application of
>>> mnc> the type using ERCO as a carrier (and what ERCO is) you are free
>>> mnc> to do so.
>>
>>>Already done. Why waste bandwidth?
>>
>> What has been done is that a short translation indentifying four different
>>carriers for the same material. Nothing in that translation posted discussed
>>the application of each type of carrier.

> Schaedlingsbekaempfung. What do you think that means?

>>Before the Degesh Pub was posted the people saying they had a copy claimed it
>>supported them but refused to post it claiming translation delays. When I
>>found a translation and posted it, it turned out that not only was there no
>>support for anything blue but the wood pulp was clearly identfied as the
>>carrier for the fumigant application.

> What happened to your kitty litter? What was that for?

Excuse me.

As soon as I found an original source I dropped that and so stated publically
in this conference. But keep in mind that all the time I was talking about
kitty litter, those who claimed to have the same publication were also stating
that it supported their position when it clearly did not.

They were clearly lying in their claim unless they were claiming they could
not read it but then of course they had no basis for the claim that it
supported them. The door swings both ways. Get used to it.

>> Nothing has been posted as to the application of the “erco” carrier
>>formulation.

> Yes, it was. “Schaedlingsbekaempfung.” What do you think that means?

Since you are playing the same old translation game, I have no interest.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:33 PDT 1996
Article: 53724 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:24:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 5:24:55 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:14:11 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Quite strange that Himmler would give a “spare no
># effort” order to save them when he heard of the epidemics
># if he considered them “sub-human.”

>Himmler definitely regarded the Jews, and the Slavs too,
>as “sub-human”. Nizkor actually has now as a recording of
>the part of his Posen speech, in which he declares that
>the Slavs are “human animals” to be used for forced labor,
>regardless if it kills them (including women and children)
>in the process.

What a poliician says in public and what he orders are always two differnent
things. Unless you are innocent to the point of juvenile you know that. The
order is on record.

If the order is falsivied then all orders are falsified.

Take your compulsive and rather childish choice where you wish.

>Funny thing, you know, if it were not for the Nazi-loving
>pieces of “revisionist” filth, there would probably be
>no Nizkor, and no such easily accessible, hard-core
>documentation of Nazi barbarism. Makes you think, right?
>(Well, not you, but in general it makes people think).

>The truth is usually more complicated than what you can
>understand. It does seem that, towards the very end of the
>war, Himmler was trying to save his fat little neck; he
>knew very well what awaited him when the war was over, and
>he made a last minute effort to stop the killing. Too late.

You do realize that your participation in this name calling is supporting the
“wider conspiracy” position?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 53727 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:34:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 5:34:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 1996 22:12:38 GMT, [email protected] (John Mark Ockerbloom) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Duncan Coons <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>If Giwer had threatened to wave a magic wand and abolish American
>>democracy, I wouldn’t have jumped to democracy’s defence either. His
>>threat against Nizkor was in roughly the same category.

>Are you claiming, then, that Giwer’s assertions shouldn’t be taken
>seriously?

>I think that’s a reasonable claim to make, but it seems that
>some prominent “revisionist scholars” don’t agree. Bradley
>Smith’s CODOH site, for instance, hosts Matt Giwer’s “Tale of Two
>Gassings” in its gas-van collection. (You can find it at
>http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcgv2gassings.html, where it’s posted,
>confusing HTML and all, along with Berg, Faurisson, Luftl, and the rest.)

Is there some problem with comparing stories in your mind? They are fully
referenced.

>So CODOH seems to take Giwer seriously enough to include him in their
>contributors.

I have not requested contributor status. I simply put it together. As it did
not fit into the theme of my website I offered it to them and to IHR which
also carries it.

It is of thematic interest. Something I spend time on I would like made
available.

They also claim to be stalwart defenders of ‘free
>speech!’ and complain loudly at actions taken against Web sites like
>their own. So why haven’t they protested, or even noted, that one of
>their own contributors was threatening lawsuits to make Nizkor remove
>material?

Discussed, not threathened, ever. I started with mentinoing the one
threatened lawsuit and that has been a matter of notification.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 53735 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TWA Flt 800
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:25:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 2:26:09 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

A classic example.

Putting everything together as of 7/26 there was a small explosion and the 2.5
miles later the entire plane exploded.

Everything points to a bomb on board.

Yet we have dozens of eyewitnesses including an AF reservist reporting
something like a missile rising towards the plane.

This is despite the impossible “it looked like a meteorite” trajectory
description of one.

This despite the impossible altitude for a Stinger.

But these are eyewitnesses but they are not believed.

Rather the PHYSICAL evidence it the criterial for the determination of this
being criminal or not. One that has been made public is fragments of metal in
the foot and ankle of one of the bodies. That is called physical evidence.

But then to holohuggers, it will for now and forever be a Stinger missle
because the eyewitnesses said so.

But then we never said holohuggers were very bright.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:35 PDT 1996
Article: 53736 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:42:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 25 12:44:09 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 24 Jul 1996 22:02:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>>
>> Rumor has it that Mr. Giwer may soon get a lesson in adult behavior
>> due to some very, very childish things he has said.

> Ironically the FBI agent in charge of the section investigating Giwer is
>a woman. I will have to add this post to the material that she is being sent.

And this is your opinion of the integrity of the FBI?

Or are you merely assuming she is fat?

This one should be amusing.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53738 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!info.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 08:52:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 3:52:24 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:80712 alt.revisionism:53738

On 26 Jul 1996 23:40:07 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Stefan Schneider ([email protected]) observes:

> You had to buy slaves, whereas sending somebody to a
> concentration camp didn’t cost a penny.

>Indeed, the cost of sending people to concentration camps was borne
>by the victims themselves, as the Nazis confiscated their life’s
>savings to pay for the transport.

Fascinating, actually. Do you have the documentation of the paperwork to
proof this? Or are you ready to claim it was worse than what happened to the
Japanese-Americans?

Remember, your word is confiscated and an indication of all assets.

We will all be awaiting your response.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:36 PDT 1996
Article: 53752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:40:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 3:40:34 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 26 Jul 96 07:09:50, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[A Silence You Almost Can Hear] [Thu 25 Jul 96 01:37][Fri 26 Jul 96 >01:48][0]*>

> >> Nizkor is hardly a corporation, but then if you’d read a little
> >> you’d know that.

>TSK! Prove it.

>Guess what, Matt. Gryn Enterprises is incorporated, but is not
>registered as such. Incorporation is less than $100.

In Virginia I had an attorney who would do it for $78US. So what?

>My corporation uses a standard numeric moniker and I DBA Gryn
>Enterprises.

>Now – is Nizkor incorporated?

Since you are are all of that, what is gryn.ORG? Just out of curisoty that
is.

> mnc> It is McVay’s personal plaything. So the subject of free speech
> mnc> is always McVay, not Nizkor. And remember that McVay supports
> mnc> Zundel’s right to free speech any place but Canada.

>Prove it.

His supporters have posted his own statements exactly to that effect. You
might take the time to read them.

> >> Liar. I defy you to use your 165 IQ (which must have been
> >> discovered in some graphic dream sequence) to prove your
> >> assertion.

> mnc> Excuse me. He dropped as a rock bottom minimum, $100 for
> mnc> the domain name. Just being altruistic? Granted the computer
> mnc> being used is “donationware” but

>So? What’s your point?

Just putting in perspective what the operation is really like. I would not
think you have a problem with that.

> mnc> the phone line is a regular expense. Unless pirated the Unix
> mnc> (or NT) software was a significant expense.

>Zero dollars and zero cents. Ever hear of Linux or FreeBSD? How
>about GNU or the FSF?

I was talking about the 3 CD set for $40. Beat that?

> mnc> In other words he gets nothing from the money he has spent?
> mnc> Nothing at all? Even self satisfaction is a personal benefit.

>So? What’s your point?

Disclosure of what the site really is.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 27 11:58:37 PDT 1996
Article: 53755 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!eua.ericsson.se!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:06:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 4:07:13 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:16:31 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>As I said in a previous article, our Nazi-lovers still have
>to explain how come all these unfortunate “accidents” – the
>water pump breaking down, the transportation breaking down,
>bla-bla, all happened only in the concentration camps.

>A few numbers tell the story.

>The Germans captured 230,000 British and American POW’s during
>WW2; about 8,000 of them died. Presumably, some were captured
>after already being injured, and some were executed for trying
>to escape. That means that no more than 3 percent or so died
>from hard conditions, lack of food, water pumps breaking down,
>and other reasons of this kind.

Governed by the Geneva rules.

>In Belsen alone – one camp, with far less than 230,000 inmates,
>over 50,000 died. It is true that many died after the liberation,
>but this was only because they were already dying when the
>camp was liberated.

Not governed by the Geneva rules.

>Moreover, this mass death from starvation began long before
>the war ended; a document which even our “revisionist scholars”
>agree is genuine, states that during the second half of 1942,
>80,000 out of 130,000 inmates transported to various
>”concentration camps” died. Note that these were not
>death camps, but so-called “work camps”! Nontheless, there
>was a tremendous death rate.

Created capital penalties after the war.

Anything else?

From [email protected] Sun Jul 28 07:11:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53777 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!eua.ericsson.se!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 09:08:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 4:08:47 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 16:57:31 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Alexander Baron writes:

># Schmitz, alias Schmeditz – a former prisoner who ended up
># in the dock by mistake and was acquitted – said in his
># testimony that at least one lorry load of bread had not
># been permitted in because of the typhus.

>There was plenty of food for everybody, except the inmates.

You have presented no evidence of that save for the prostitutes.

>Look at the photo of these fat SS-women, throwing the skeletal
>corpses into the mass grave. They didn’t have any bread to
>eat, right?

That is them.

>Damn you and damn your excuses for this mass murder of
>innocent people. You are disgusting.

Damn those who would lie to support their personal beliefs after knowing they
are hollow.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 28 07:11:00 PDT 1996
Article: 53791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Maybe he missed the screaming stories and thought it was cyanide
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 05:15:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 12:15:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

CANADA TO REVIEW HOLOCAUST REMARKS

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
OTTAWA — Canada’s justice minister said Monday he will review the
“shocking
remarks” of a Quebec judge who said Jews didn’t suffer when they were
massacred
in Nazi concentration camps.

Allan Rock told the House of Commons that he has asked for a transcript
of the
comments, made last week by Quebec Superior Court Justice Jean Bienvenue.

“I shall take what I deem to be an appropriate action in the face of
these shocking
remarks,” he said.

Bienvenue was sentencing a woman for the second-degree murder of her
husband
when he compared her violent act — slitting her husband’s throat with a
razor blade —
to how Nazis treated Jews at a concentration camp in Poland.

“The Nazis did not eliminate millions of Jews in a painful and bloody
manner: They
died in gas chambers without suffering,” he said.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 28 07:11:01 PDT 1996
Article: 53800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran’s Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 10:45:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 27 3:45:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:50:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It is good see physical law was different in those years.

>They were not different. But different carriers release the
>HCN at different speeds. The speed also depends on the
>thickness of the carrier.

Quite correct and the vermin type with the wood pulp carrier is as stated.
You numbers have proven that already.

># Perhaps when there a translation of the complete document
># available there will be something to ignore.

>The relevant part was translated. It states that after an
>hour, or at most two, there was no detectable residue of HCN
>in the carrier, and this at very low temperatures.

That is what you folks said when you claimed the Degesh Publication supported
your position. And then I posted it. And it turned out it contradicted your
position.

You lied then.

You have no credibility until the entire document is posted in English.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 28 07:11:02 PDT 1996
Article: 53862 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.ici.net!news.wizard.com !imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Flying south for a few days…
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 07:17:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 26 2:18:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:33:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
># a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
># camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the
># French-born Peer claimed that he “was sent to the [Belsen]
># camp gas chamber at least six times.”

>The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

>1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
> child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

Elie Wiesel is of cours unreliable.

>2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that
> the Holocaust is a “hoax”, we will also have to conclude that
> the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous
> “evidence” about it, such as “puddles of melted human flesh,
> 4 foot deep”, and of people turning into “an undulating layer
> of fine gray ash” (although the fire didn’t even touch them),
> etc.

But of course it is testimony llike that which constitutes the only basis for
the gassing stories.

>But you know all this. We’ve been through it before. This is
>an FAQ now; easier, don’t have to rewrite every time. There
>are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like
>yours; one being their predictability.

I have noticed the way you folks put up nonsense in a FAQ that only someone
ignorant of the subject might take seriously.

BTW: Do you have one on the complete gassing issue yet? With the kind of
“answers” you folks provide it should convince any technically oriented person
that the gassing stories are nonsense. I expect the revisionists sites would
like to at least link to it if not carry it directly.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 28 07:11:03 PDT 1996
Article: 53871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,can.politics,alt.revisionism,news.groups
Subject: Re: Nothing Here At All, Mr. [email protected]
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 05:14:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 111
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-30.ix.netcom.com
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:91626 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2044 can.politics:61193 alt.revisionism:53871 news.groups:147385

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:17:20 UTC, [email protected] (Vyshinsky) wrote:

>[email protected] writes:

>> [email protected] (Vyshinsky) writes:
>> >[email protected] writes:
>> >>It was Rich Graves who is the “Anonymous Troll”
>> >>
>> >>I have about as much evidence for that as Rich does to claim that I was
>> >>secretly the anonymous person who posted the message.
>> >
>> >Larry Lurch does stuff like that. He once claimed I and several others,
>> >were Milton Kleim in his spam-pain to censor rec.music.white-power.
>>
>> Actually, I said the opposite in a number of media interviews.

>You initially said that [email protected], [email protected],
>[email protected] and ALL addresses posting in favor of r.m.w-p were
>Milton Kleim. And you were [email protected] trying to imitate
>[email protected] Ha!

>> http://pathfinder.com/Netly/daily/960607.html is still online, as is the

>Nothing at this URL, but your admission that your actions were not
>what you claimed at the time.

>*

>> Washington Post piece (don’t have the exact URL on me). I’ve got a copy of
>> Little Judy’s story, will put it up somewhere tomorrow. And of course
>> there’s the stuff on MSNBC.

>What channel is that on? I’ve never seen it. Micro-Gartner? Bleah.

>> >He’s also posing as ezundel-repost and pretended to be Qut, A. Huber, and
>>
>> That wold be [email protected]

>Which would be you. [email protected]

>> >Ernst Zndel and probably is Mike Beebe, who issues death-threats.
>>
>> No, actually, Mike Beebe is the Easter Bunny.
>>
>> >And what about his harassment of the subscribers to Zndelgrams?

>That was you, taking advantage of other’s mistakes. I suppose you had
>no choice. Once the bad guys have the secrets, everyone should have it.

>> Was that before or after I won the Publisher’s Clearinghouse Sweepstakes?
>>
>> Please keep posting, Skippy. This is a riot. Followups set, not that you
>> ever follow them.

>A lot of you and Mr. McVay’s Followup-To: lines are net abuse.

>*

> [1] Saturn Cars
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> [2]Text Only Version
> The Netly News
>
>
>
> nbsp nbsp June 7, 1996
> [INLINE]
>
> A VOTE AGAINST RACISM
>
>
>
> So the Great Usenet Vote of 1996 is finally over. The proposed
> newsgroup rec.music.white-power, which came to symbolize racism and
> intolerance online, was overwhelmingly beaten back. Only 592 voted to
> create the newsgroup; a stunning 33,033 people voted against it.
> Usenet pundits say that’s the biggest turnout in Net history.
>
> Of course, you’d expect that. The vote saw an unprecedented level
> of campaigning and anti-campaigning, with E-mail bombs lobbed at
> innocent parties, thousands of forged votes and an IRC ‘bot that went
> up and down hundreds of EFnet channels urging voters to Just Say No to
> rec.music.white-power.
>
> That explains, in part, why it took so long to tally up the votes.
> Voting closed at midnight on March 18 but the results were only
> announced yesterday by Michael Handler, the volunteer vote-taker who
> was charged with the Sisyphean task of [3]validating each of 3.5 megs
> worth of votes. Dilweeds and dickheads, unfamiliar with Usenet voting,
> mistakenly believed that Handler was the person actually proposing the
> newsgroup and periodically E-mail bombed him. That made a miserable
> task nearly impossible. “I was flamed and accused of being a white
> supremacist and a racist by people who didn’t understand that I was
> just the votetaker,” Handler said. One guy sent him 15,000 blank
> messages. Uh, thanks, dude.
>
> The volume of E-mail twice crashed his company’s mail servers,
> Handler reports, forcing him to process and acknowledge votes in
> batc