Documents

Giwer Matt, 3-1996 – p2

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48685 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:48:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31a31339.350212[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 05 11:52:05 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) and Moran wrote:

>>> As far as Treblinka is concerned, there is nothing to the story
>>>than “eyewitness testimony”. No photographs or anything. The Treblinka
>>>chapter of the Holocaust story has it that the 40 acre camp was built
>>>one year where the Germans exterminated up to 2,000,000 the next year
>>>demolished by the Germans the next year, and was nothing more than a
>>>tree farm the next year.

>No photographs ? Shit. I have some photos from the Kurt Frantz Album,
>an excavator at work, aso. It is worth to trash ? Frantz was sentenced
>to life emprisonment (Dusseldorf) in 64.

Sorry about that. It does not satisfy the criteria.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CODOH shut down
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:05:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 12:09:40 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

No organization can both claim to desire common carrier status as an ISP
and censor what they carry.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:16:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 12:20:29 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Equinox wrote:

>X-Mozilla-Status: 0801
>X-Mozilla-News-Host: news
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 02:03:56 -0700
>From: Equinox
>Organization: @Home
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>CC: [email protected]
>Subject: NO nerve gas?
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Hi There,
>When I was in the Army I remember them teaching us about Nerve Gas and
>one Sargeant told me that our VX was based on Nazi nerve gases
>developed from insecticides before WWII. I also remember reading about
>chemical warfare in the library. Anyway,
>the book mentioned that Hitler did NOT use the Reich’s stores of
>Nerve Gas on advancing Communist and Allied soldiers (nor on England
>with the V2) because he feared for the German people and what the
>Allies would do in retaliation. As a side note, maybe this was the
>’secret weapon’ that Geobbles (?) kept yelling about near the end.
>My question is this; how can anyone doubt the extensive stocks of
>nerve gas in the Nazi inventory? I know that the U.S. Army took alot
>of advanced (for the time) technology out of Germany after they
>conquered the Nazis, in fact our entire space program was based on
>their Rocket technology and personnel. It makes sense that the U.S.
>also got a hold of this nerve gas and in the early days of the Cold
>War developed it further to counter a perceived Communist threat of
>the same. There seems to be just too much evidence that the Nazi’s
>developed or took over development of chemicals that can kill with
>one drop. How can this be explained away?

It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.

But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
likely agent.

When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
collapsed.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48695 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,can.politics,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Horrible Racist Comic At WWW.RESIST.COM
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:08:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4qdrm[email protected]> <4qemo[email protected]> <4qnh4[email protected]> <4qoui[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4qq48h$o2l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4qtakm[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rd09p$[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 12:12:45 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:332492 alt.politics.white-power:35357 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24738 alt.discrimination:49781 can.politics:56311 alt.revisionism:48695

[email protected] (Cthulhu) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Daniel Clinton) wrote:

>>See, the US has this thing called the First Amendment. It says that
>>anybody who has a viewpoint is entitled to express it any damn way
>>they choose.

>The First Amendment prohibited destructive lying from its very beginning. That
>makes any racist propaganda calling for violence illegal.

The 1st Amendment prohibits no such thing.

>Libel and slander are in the criminal code. You could take racists to court
>for slandering you.

Unlike England and other backward countries, the truth is an absolute
defense in the US.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 20:52:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48765 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:15:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <4r[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4r9sa2$[email protected]> <4rbqi4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:19:48 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 06 Jul 96 15:07:12, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[To Alec Grynspan] [Wed 03 Jul 96 15:31][Sat 06 Jul 96 05:36][0]*>

> >> That a witness saw live people carted in, saw dead bodies come
> >> out and didn’t see the cause of death? He speculates on the
> >> cause, convinces himself and that is written down in a book.

> mnc> What words in that statement indicates speculation to you?

>Oh good grief! Reread and try again.

>> Anyone want to explain this one?
>>
>> ” It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
>> built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
>> people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
>> then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
>> way; there they were killed. ”

There it is again. What words indicate speculation to you? Those are
declarative sentences.

> mnc> What kind of “mass extermination” was supposed to have been
> mnc> going on at Belsen in 1942 or ever for that matter?

>Must we repeat everything, Matt? Don’t waste time on
>ground-shifting. Leave that for the deniers.

Sorry but there is no longer a claim of any mass extermination at
Belsen. It is the holohuggers who have shifted on this one.

> >> Gassings were reported and representatives were begging the
> >> American military to bomb the chambers during the war.

> mnc> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines
> mnc> cut so that no more people could be sent there and so the food
> mnc> would be cut off so those already there would starve.

>Utter nonsense. Go read “Abandonment of the Jews” and follow up on
>the references. I’m still BUSY (today is my son’s birthday – the big
>ONE-OH) so you have time.

Sorry about that but that is what I heard the last time this was brought
up.

> >> account that 2 bombs would have put the chambers out of
> >> commission,

> mnc> Four for Birkenau alone according to discussions in this NG
> mnc> but then laser guidance was not available in those days.

>Two of the biggies or half a dozen smaller ones. They flew right
>over the chambers on the way to making craters of some plants
>nearby. The films show an illusion of the bomb falling on the
>chambers but that was due to the fact that the bomb was moving
>forward at the same speed as the bomber. They were that close!

Alec, you have a lot to learn about iron bombs and their rather minimal
accuracy. What you suggest is clearly impossible. I have no idea who
told you otherwise. I would suggest you look into the reason for the
development of smart bombs in the first place.

> >> was a strategically poor move and there are bombsight photos of
> >> the planes passing over the gas chambers on their way to other
> >> targets.

> mnc> You are the only person who has ever made such a claim. The
> mnc> ones that Nizkor carries of Birkenau show no such activity when
> mnc> such activity should have been at its peak — depending upon

>Matt, the films were actually shown on TV in prime time! I’ve seen
>them there several times, as well as elsewhere. Pay attention!

Which prime time news could that have been? From 10,000 feet or so you
are actually seeing people and activity? It is a shame Nizkor has not
come across those pictures. They have none of them.

> >> How can I argue with you? It would be like fighting an unarmed
> >> man!

> >> Get yourself together, Matt! I don’t want to shoot fish in a
> >> barrel!

> mnc> Again you make claims but they are patently contrary to what
> mnc> is available to everyone here, and then you declare victory.

>No pouting! Act like an adult. Look it up! You have the clues.

I have looked into it. Your claims are rather unique in the matter. No
one else here has made them either. I find this quite surprising.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 22:37:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48775 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:30:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <4r[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4r9sa2$[email protected]> <4rbqi4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:34:48 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 04 Jul 1996 09:25:12 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

>Non-sequitur, Matt. please do try to stay with the argument this time. I
>really don’t want to wte time on zig-zags.

I am telling you what has been posted here. The source was supposed to
be The Abandonment of the Jews. According to the previous posts the
targets they wanted to be hit were the rail lines.

>> Four for Birkenau alone according to discussions in this NG but then
>> laser guidance was not available in those days.

>More non-sequiturs. Wake up, Matt! You can do better.

The claim here is that there were four gas chambers at Birkenau. There
have been long discussions even as to the numbering of them and their
design features. You are the first person to claim there were only two.
The rest agree there were four. And, by your assumption, all the smart
bomb technology was a tax payer rip off as dumb iron bombs could do the
same thing.

>> the American military said it
>> >was a strategically poor move and there are bombsight photos of the
>> >planes passing over the gas chambers on their way to other targets.
>>
>> You are the only person who has ever made such a claim. The ones that
>> Nizkor carries of Birkenau show no such activity when such activity
>> should have been at its peak — depending upon which “pharmacist” you
>> choose to believe.

>I’m not talking about Nizkor, Matt. If you don’t do any research on a
>subject, other than browse web pages, how can we possibly debate or
>discuss? Please do some intensive upgrading at your library.

Actually you are making claims contrary to those of the
exterminationists here. Sorry about that. Perhaps you should have
researched the position of those you appear to be supporting before you
started supporting them.

Talking about shifting grounds, I have often suggested they get together
and come up with a single, consistent story for me to address. You are
now doing that to me in that you have a story that is different from
what anything the rest of them have been saying. So may I make the same
suggestion to you, that you get together with them and settle upon a
single story.

>> >Really, Matt, none of this is news! We’ve already been over that in
>> >other places and even here!
>>
>> >Your memory is patently bad, but this is getting ridiculous. It goes
>> >beyond memory!
>>
>> >How can I argue with you? It would be like fighting an unarmed man!
>>
>> >Get yourself together, Matt! I don’t want to shoot fish in a barrel!
>>
>> Again you make claims but they are patently contrary to what is
>> available to everyone here, and then you declare victory.

>(*SIGH*) They argue the same subset of data repeatedly, because that is
>what their opponents argue. Do you just want to be a more voluble Huber,
>or do you want to do some research!

>I could declare victory based on your patently poor grasp of the topic
>but you can use the time to get the info together for a better
>challenge.

>You are just being repetitive – a sign of a lack of information, Matt.

You also disagree with the documents on Nizkor.

You are simply reciting another version of the stories that have been
told here over and over. But it is a markedly different version.

>I’m still too busy to focus more than a minute fraction of my time on
>you. Surely you can take advantage of that to get rebuttal material
>together.

>Be the first revisionist with *NEW* material, Matt! Don’t just rehash
>what others have done. For pete’s sake! My mother-in-law can parrot
>reams of data but can’t come up with an independent conclusion because
>she has the intelligence of a brick!

>Now hi thyself to a library and return to argue with knowledge and
>reason!

I can’t say you are the first holohugger with new material but you
present so much of it at once. For example only two gas chambers at
Birkenau. And I would be interested in you pointing out what I have
said that is a simple rehash. It does not appear you have read enough
of what has been posted in this conference to know what anyone on any
side has said.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:45 PDT 1996
Article: 48784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Well designed mass gassing chambers
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rgu[email protected]> <4rmb[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:12:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 12:32:13 -0700, [email protected] (Richard
James Green) wrote:

>Mr. Ehrlich,

>Your defense of Matt Giwer is simply appalling. I find it hard to
>believe that any reasonable person of goodwill could make the statements
>that you’ve made about Matt Giwer. Luckily, your statements about Matt
>Giwer are on file at Nizkor.

What is “lucky” about that? Please explain.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:46 PDT 1996
Article: 48785 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:22:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 12:26:28 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.002
>Last-modified: 1993/10/24
>See Also: holocaust diet.01

> I.G. Auschwitz: I.G. Farben’s Buna (synthetic rubber) division, built
> near the site of the Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II concentration
> camps. (Farben eventually built their own corporate concentration
> camp at the site, to eliminate the need to march prisoners several
> miles to and from the Buna plant every day, as had been the practice.
> It was known as Monowitz, and had a sign over the gate which read
> “Arbeit Macht Frei.”)

>[Editor’s note: I understand that the “Arbeit Macht Frei” sign can be seen
>today over the gate at Auschwitz I – this raises the question of whether or
>not there were more than one, or if the one the author mentions was moved to
>Auschwitz I at a later date, or if the author was simply incorrect. knm]

> “Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz. The diet fed to I.G.
> Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous ‘Buna Soup’ – a
> nutritional aid not available to other prisoners – resulted in an
> average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
> nine pounds a week. At the end of a month, the change in the
> prisoner’s appearance was marked; at the end of two months, the
> inmates were not recognizable except as caricatures formed of skin,
> bones, and practically no flesh; after three months, they were either
> dead or so unfit for work that they were marked for release to the
> gas chambers at Birkenau. Two physicians who studied the effect of
> the I.G. diet on the inmates noticed that ‘the normally nourished
> prisoner at Buna could make up the deficiency by his own body for a
> period of three months….The prisoners were condemned to burn up
> their own body weight while working and, providing no infections
> occurred, finally died of exhaustion.'” others – typical SS Auschwitz punishment reports> (Borkin, 125)

> Work Cited

> Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York:
> The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.

It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.

It is like some innocent child hearing his Marine father using a
nickname for some dish from the slop chute at Quantico and concocting a
horror story around it. “They make my Daddy eat plastic pizza and then
he got sick and died.”

But then there were secret synthetic foods made by the plant that did
nothing more than simply not feeding people would do.

Even more innocently naive the people who believe such stories with such
great fervor. Yad Vashem needs to grow up and smell the Sugar Puffs.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:46 PDT 1996
Article: 48797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They probably thought they were being inoculated’
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:12:53 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:00:57 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
>>about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
>>were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).
>>
>>All the following testimonies are excerpted from “Auschwitz: the
>>Proceedings Against Mulka and Others” by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
>>who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
>>participated in the gassing operations).
>>
>>Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by
>>the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
>>1945 (p. 153-4):
>>———————————————————————-
>>The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with
>>injections were begun in 1942.
>>
>>”First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
>>know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
>>looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
>>phenolic acid”.
> These Germans always seem to have to experiment with the most
>basic of procedures and substances, like when they were trying to
>figure out how much Zyklon B would have to used.

And all the while never thinking of a simple air bubble to cause an
embolism and heart failure, death in five minutes. Stupid Germans.

Nah, rather, “go out and get me some hydrogen gas. Let’s try that
first.”

“So what did he come back with? A 5 kilo cylinder of the stuff. Blew
the plunger out of five hypos before I got the trick of filling it
right.”

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:47 PDT 1996
Article: 48798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Collective Guilt
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:12:57 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 05:38:05 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <4q[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his
>> good treatment of civilians in return for their pledge of peacefulness.
>> His troops were being attacked whenever they were found alone or in
>> small groups. He also found they were being shot in the stomach when
>> possible to cause a lingering and painful death.
>>
>> It was with that experience that he decided on a policy of
>bringing the
>> actual horrors of war to civilians. Of course since the North wrote
>> most of the history of the war, his policy was told in a better light.

>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.)

When all else fails …

It just so happens that I’m reading
>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them cone to the
>same conclusion that you do.
>
>Grant’s decision to “wage war upon the population” was made long before
>the seige at Vicksburg.
>
>He who asserts must prove, Mr. Giwer. Where did the above information come from?

The idea of “waging war on the population” came from you. What I am
talking about came from his own writings, mainly in letters. They are
as I have recounted. Get better books and ignore the coincidence.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:48 PDT 1996
Article: 48799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yad Vashem Studies XVI: Operation Reinhard (8/11)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 180
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:13:02 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs16.02
>Last-modified: 1993/03/29
>XRef: yad_vashem index

> YAD VASHEM STUDIES
> XVI
> Edited by Aharon Weiss

> YAD VASHEM
> MARTYR’S AND HEROES’ REMEMBRANCE AUTHORITY
> JERUSALEM 1984

> “Operation Reinhard”:
> Extermination Camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka

> Yitzhak Arad

> Treblinka — from July 23 until August 28, 1942

Spam at its most creatively gruesome.

> The procedure adopted upon the arrival of the trains was the same as
> that in Sobibor: two German railroad workers, classified as being
> reliable, took over the transport from the Treblinka station to the
> extermination camp, a distance of 4 km. The Pole Franciszek Zabecki
> described the arrival of the deportation train from the Warsaw
> ghetto:

> A small locomotive stood ready in the railroad station to
> transport the first section of freight cars into the carnp.
> Everything had been planned and prepared in advance. The train
> consisted of 60 closed freight cars fully loaded with people:

One wonders at the size of a large locomotive.

> young ones, old ones, men and women, children and babies. The car
> doors were locked from the outside and the air holes covered with
> barbed wire. On the running boards on both sidej and on the roof
> about a dozen SS-soldiers stood or lay with machine guns at the
> ready.

Running boards on freight cars. People moving with cars that had been
unguarded for hundreds of miles. Fascinating.

It was hot and most of the people in the freight cars were
> deadly exhausted… As the train came nearer it seemed as if an
> evil spirit had taken hold of the waiting SS-men.

Nice touch.

They drew their
> pistols, returned them to their holsters, pulled them out agian,
> as if they wanted to shoot and kill. They approached the freight
> cars and tried to reduce the noise and the weeping; but then they
> screamed at the Jews and cursed them, all the while urging the
> railroad workers to hurry: “Quick, faster!” After that they
> returned to the camp in order to receive the deportees.
> (Franciszek Zabecki, ‘Wspomnienia dawne i nowe’, Warsaw, 1977 pp.
> 39 f)

> As the train approached the extermination camp, the engine blew a
> prolonged whistle which was the signal for the Ukrainians to man
> their position in the reception sector and on the roofs of the
> buildings. One group of SS-men and Ukrainians took up positions on
> the station platform. As soon as the train was moving along the
> tracks inside the camp, the gates behind it were closed. The
> deportees were taken out of the freight cars and conducted through a
> gate to a fenced-in square inside the camp. At the gate they were
> separated: men to the right, women and children to the left. A large
> placard announced in Polish and German:

> Attention Warsaw Jews! You are in a transit camp from which the
> transport will continue to labor camps. To prevent epidemics,
> clothing as well as pieces of baggage are to be handed over for
> disinfection. Gold, money, foreign currency, and jewellery are to
> be deposited at the “Cash Office” against a receipt. They will be
> returned later on presentation of the receipt. For physical
> cleanliness, all arrivals must have a bath before travelling on.
> (Verdict of LG Dusseldorf AZ 81 Ks 2/64, p. 81.)

> The undressing procedure and the manner in which the victims were led
> to the gas chambers were almost identical to those described for the
> Sobibor camp.

> During this first phase, from the beginning to the middle of August,
> 5,000 – 7,000 Jews arrived every day in Treblinka. Then the pace of
> the transports increased; there were days on which 10,000 – 12,000
> deportees reached the camp, together with thousands who were already
> dead and others who were utterly exhausted.

Again these amazing numbers and again all of these bodies being burned
in open pits and again no mention of the smell as it is not appropriate
to this story.

> Abraham Goldfarb, who arrived there on August 25, described the
> scene:

> When we arrived in Treblinka and the Germans opened the
> freight cars we beheld a horrible sight. The car was full of
> corpses. The bodies were partly decomposed by chlorine. The
> stench in the cars made those still alive choke. The Germans
> ordered everyone to get out; those still able to do so were half
> dead. Waiting SS and Ukrainians beat us and shot at us…

Looks like someone smuggled a huge cylinder of chlorine on board with
him in order to commit a grotesque form of mass suicide. But it beats
the story of the cars that were filled with lime to kill and decompose
the bodies before they arrived.

> On the way to the gas chambers Germans with dogs stood along the
> fence on both sides. The dogs had been trained to attack people;
> they bit the men’s genitals and the women’s breasts, ripping off
> pieces of flesh. The Germans hit the people with whips and iron
> bars to spur them on so that they pressed forward into the
> “showers” as quickly as possible. The screams of the women could
> be heard far away, even in the other parts of the camp. The
> Germans drove the running victims on with shouts of: “Faster,
> faster, the water will get cold, others still have to go under the
> showers!” To escape from the blows, the victims ran to the gas
> chambers as quickly as they could, the stronger ones pushing the
> weaker aside. At the entrance to the gas chambers stood the two
> Ukrainians, Ivan Demaniuk and Nikolai, one of them armed with an
> iron bar, the other with a sword. They drove the people inside
> with blows… As soon as the gas chambers were full, the
> Ukrainians closed the doors and started the engine. Some 20-25
> minutes later an SS-man or a Ukrainian looked through a window in
> the door. When they had ascertained that everyone had been
> asphyxiated, the Jewish prisoners had to open the doors and remove
> the corpses. Since the chambers were overcrowded and the victims
> held on to one another, they all stood upright and were like one
> single block of flesh. (Yad Vashem Archives 0-3/2140)

It is rather amazing that all of these people’s legs locked frozen at
death. But the SS engine exhaust kills differently from other engine
exhaust. A nice touch also. Worthy of a horror story writer.

> Breakdowns and interruptions occurred in the operation of the gas
> chambers. During the initial phase the personnel did not know how
> long it would take to asphyxiate the victims. On occasion the doors
> were opened too early and the victims were still alive, so that the
> doors had to be closed again.

And stood up again real neat so they would all remain standing.

The engines which produced the gas
> occasionally failed. If such mishaps occurred when the victims were
> already inside the gas chambers, they were left standing there until
> the engines had been repaired. Some 268,000 Jews met their deaths in
> the first extermination wave in Treblinka, which lasted five
> weeks–from July 23 to August 28.

7000 a day. Quite an amazing figure.

> The gas chambers with their technical breakdowns were unable to cope
> with such enormous numbers. Those who could not be pressed inside
> were shot in the reception camp. Many prisoners and additional
> ditches were needed in order to bury all those who had been shot, in
> addition to the thousands who had died during the transports. An
> excavator from the gravel pit in the nearby Treblinka punishment camp
> was used for digging additional mass graves.

No burning pits in this story so we must expect to find hundreds of
thousands of corpses in mass graves some day when someone gets around to
looking for them.

> But this did not solve the problem and at the end of August chaos
> still reigned in Treblinka. Reports of what went on in the camp
> reached headquarters. Globocnik and Wirth arrived, assessed the
> situation, and dismissed Eberl, the camp commandant. Stangl, from
> Sobibor, who was without work because of repairs on the tracks, was
> appointed commandant of Treblinka.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars, The Series [Preface]
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:25:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 12:29:23 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 13:29:55 GMT, [email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>Ride with us as we lower ourselves into the slime at the bottom of life
>where the V*rmin wriggle , those who have stolen YOUR names and laid
>claim to the 5,000 year heritage of the brave Semites of the House of
>Judea. They are the GRAVES, the McVEYs and the McFEEs of the world,
>bringing havoc out of order, and ruin out of 10,000 years of White
>Heritage.

>By: Jim Floyd: ([email protected])

>Subject: Sint ut sunt aut non sint.

>JAMES FLOYD on the impossibilities of Anti-Semitism, or ( how can Elie
>Weasel call Jesus his cousin and keep a semi-straight face )

>It is the fervent hope of this humble writer that one of our slime-ball,

>self-appointed, commissars of ‘political correctness’ such as Mo Dees,
>Gut
>Abe Foxman, Congressman Schumer et al. will find this series of articles
>so
>repugnant and dangerous to this cozy ‘chosen’ status crap that they will

>immediately seek recourse in a court of law.

>Equally fervid is the hope that after you read this material NEVER AGAIN

>will you allow a Khazar to denigrate anyone with the vile term
>’Anti-Semite’.

>”The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past,
>begins
>to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated.”
> Arthur Koestler, ‘The Thirteenth Tribe’
> (found dead with his wife – ruled suicide)

If you are into SF there is an old story, On Venus have we got a Rabbi,
(William Tenn?) that recounts this story in a future setting.

It seems they discover this alien race that claims to be Jewish …

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48814 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:02:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 2:06:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 13:29:26 -0400, [email protected] (SF924) wrote:

>I never have had a problem with Nazis being Nazis and publicly espousing
>their vile hatred. It’s only this revisionist b.s. I find offensive.

As there is no recorded Israelite migration into the areas that were
beyond the influence of the Roman Empire where the Eastern European Jews
appear to have come from, it is unclear what objection you might have.

If there were an answer, it would be easy to produce.

Cite the migration.

There would be more than sufficient documentation of Israelite (Judean?)
settlements as was the custom in those times. There would certainly be
records of continuity on the fringes of the Eastern Roman Empire.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:50 PDT 1996
Article: 48817 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news-relay.us.dell.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:50:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4c[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:54:18 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 09:17:05 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>Daniel Keren wrote:

>>> What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
>>> over again?

>>He wants to be the new Dan Gannon?

>Fat chance! He’s got the whiney part down pretty fine, but he
>hasn’t yet learned to:

>1. Call everyone who disagrees a VILE LITTLE LIAR!
>2. Post the same article, (we recommend a 50K IHR tract), to 80
> newsgroups at the same time,
>3. Irritate ISPs to the point where none of them will provide
> you with an account, then
>4. Claim you have been censored and “banished” from the
> Internet. (Use the Internet to make this claim.)
>5. Provide sexually explicit material on your bbs and
> run it as a commercial operation when you discover it is
> less taxing intellectually than “Holocaust scholarship”
>6. Use at least three pseudonyms at the same time, but
> make each one say VILE LITTLE LIAR at least once a day
>7. Threaten local gay businessmen/women, post their names
> and addresses on the Internet at least twice, and
> suggest that people “call them up and tell them what
> you think of…” them, in the hope they will go out
> of business. Do this in the name of free speech and
> democracy and hope no one will notice the contradiction.
>8. Have your very own “alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum”
> newsgroup created. If others won’t do it for you,
> scream “I am not a NAZI you VILE LITTLE LIAR!” and
> do it yourself.
>9. Explain that Negroes have smaller brains than everyone
> else.
>10. Show photographs of dead bodies hanging from nails,
> claim they are doctored because you can’t see any rope.

>Tommy hasn’t even begun to score points yet on the Gannon
>Scale of InterNet Abuse. Neither has Giwer, although Giwer has
>managed to achieve something Gannon did not.

>The real key to “being Gannon” is to accept the fact that
>”revisionism” is a lost cause, and flog sex instead…. all,
>of course, in the name of free speech.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

Ken McVay believes he can buy his way into the tribe and has yet to
realize there is no way to do so.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 48819 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.comm.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31dd2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:12:50 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 10:38:27 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:

>[Moran’s recycled distortion deleted. It has been corrected and
>placed in context several times in the past.]

>>
>> Actually, it is a childish ploy for evasion. Hilary has never, as
>>far as I know, posted anything of substance. Of course she could come
>>back and post some of her stuff to rebuke this claim. Okay Hillary, go
>>for it.

>Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive
>ploys, Mr. Moran.

Who is this “we” are you are speaking for?

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:52 PDT 1996
Article: 48825 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!van.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news-relay.us.dell.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:48:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 10:52:58 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:53:55 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
>”Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations”
> L.A.Times, July 6, 1996

>”Rome –Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the
>anti-Semitic laws of facism–but insists the money must come from the
>country’s own Jewish community.
> Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry’s demand is
>’repugnant’ called on the gavernment this week to stop it.
> The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the
>Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000
>inreparations, ….”

> The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as
>having a beef with the order.

Poetic justice?

These folks keep banging on the Catholic Church and every allied
government in sight for failure instantly stop the holocaust.

But they never notice that those organizations such as the World Jewish
Congress never at any time bought any shortwave air time and broadcast
anything like, “Fight, you are going to be steamed” or “Kill them before
they electrocute you” whatever was popular at the time. The only radio
reports documented of anything even close come out of Switzerland.

Who in fact was most personally derelict when there is supposedly clear,
believable and almost unquestionable that such information was passed by
Jewish leaders to the US and British governments who declined to do
anything.

It appears they threw up their hands and declined to do anything
further. It is like the Pope doing nothing and blaming everyone else
for doing nothing.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:53 PDT 1996
Article: 48828 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nyiszli’s Memoirs of Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 09:58:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:02:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 19:30:03 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> In article , [email protected]
>> (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

>[snip]

>> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >(Ehrlich606) wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Memoirs of Dr. Nyiszli *Auschwitz* (Arcade, 1993)
>> >
>> >> THE SHOOTING (Chapter 9, pp. 66-68)
>> >>
>> >> One night Dr. Nyiszli wakes up to hear shooting. He goes into a room
>> >> and finds 70 naked women, not all of them dead, aprawled in a bloody
>> >> mess on the floor. Each of whom has been shot in the back of the head.
>> >> A sonderkommando assures him that every night trucks bring 70 more to
>> >> be murdered the same way.
>> >
>> >Tauber describes something similar when he was working in Krema I.
>> >Some 30 to 40 people were brought into the morgue of Krema I a couple
>> >times a week and shot there. Braod aslo wrote about a mass shooting of
>> >over 200 people that took place at Krema I. Ho”ss wrote that small
>> >transports of Russians were constantly being shot in the gravel pits at
>> >the Monopol factory or in Block 11.
>>
>> There were shootings no doubt. But again I consider the above seriously
>> exaggerated.

>Why? What evidence do you have that would indicate such atrocities were
>”exagerated?” Do please be specific.

>> >> THE MASS BURNING (Chapter 13, pp. 84-89)
>> >>
>> >> 5,000 people are waiting to be burned in open pits. They are led into
>> >> a house in groups of 400, forced to strip while beaten, and then are
>> >> chased along a gauntlet of SS to a pit. The pit is 50 yards long, six
>> >> yards wide, and three yards deep. SS men line the pit. There were two
>> >> such *pyres.*
>> >
>> >Tauber describes something similar (though in less detail) happening
>> >during Akyion Ho”ss. He claimed that there were so many people at times
>> >that the deportees that could not be immediately gassed were shot by the
>> >incineration pits instead. According to Tauber, Hauptscharfu”hrer Otto
>> >Moll (Molle according to Nyizli) threw people in the incineration pits
>> >alive to burn to death.
>>
>> According to USSR-8, the Soviet State Commission on Auschwitz, introduced
>> at the IMT, the pits were of the dimension cited by Nyiszli. The same
>> document specifies that a channel was cut in the bottom of the pit for air
>> supply. [Not for fat fuel] USSR-8 also calculates a death toll at
>> Auschwitz Birkenau in excess of 4 million, clearly calculated on the basis
>> on the assumed incineration capacities of the crematoria. So, that is the
>> source of that particular error. Tauber testified for the Soviet State
>> Commission. His subsequent testimony or testimonies is unknown to me.

>Aside from the fact that you are now changing the subject from the fact
>that the pits existed and peole were taken to them, shot and tossed (alive
>sometimes) into them to be incinerated; to the questioning of the
>plausability of using rendered human fat as a fuel- yet another typical
>tactic of the deniers -it seems we have a differrence of opinions here,
>yes? Do you know _how_ it was determined the channel was used for “air
>supply?” Was it from eyewitness testimony? Or was it supposition on the
>part of the Soviets? I’m curious as to how the Soviets came to their
>conclusions.

You will continue to be curious as there was never any physical evidence
of it. There was never anything more than the fanciful tales of
gosh-aweful-for real eyewitnesses.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:53 PDT 1996
Article: 48832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N’burg
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:01:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4qsd4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4r9lh8$[email protected]> <4ra7[email protected]> <4radpv$m0[email protected]> <4ri0in$3b[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:05:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:23:33 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree gives Matt his daily dose of bashing:
>Deleting all but the relivant point.

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> Do you really think I give a damn about your opinion?

>To which I must ask the key question of Mr. Giwer!

>Mr. Giwer, sir, in all due respect, do you really think anybody gives
>a damn about your opinions?
>Luv ya’
>Chuck

>PS: Consider this a threat if you so desire! Lay off Hilary, or your
>wrinkled old ass belongs to me, pal!

You kinky old ass keeps imagining it can get it up.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:54 PDT 1996
Article: 48835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Discussion with Giwer begins
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 06:32:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rf8v[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 1:36:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:03:21 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>>
>> >If Mr. Giwer is truly interested in discussion, I presume he will
>> >now enter into this discussion by explaining why he thinks it is “in
>> >the same league” — after all, evidence for gassing includes
>> >eyewitness testimony, which this is not. (And confessions, and
>> >physical evidence as well, but that’s beside the point here.)
>>
>> >Well, Mr. Giwer? I’d like to discuss this with you. Are you game?
>>
>> Begin.

>I’m not sure why you can’t respond to what I’ve already said, but
>perhaps I was not clear enough, so I’ll try again.

Because you have a tendency to imply things you have not said. Please
do not change the thread name again as you have with this change
obliterated the trace to what you originally said.

>Please explain why you think the quote in question is “in the same
>league” as the homicidal gassings. It has been demonstrated that
>evidence for gassing includes eyewitness testimony, which this is not,
>along with confessions of the perpetrators, and corroborating physical
>evidence.

Even if you insist upon confounding testimony with evidence these are
both testimony and therefore in the same league, category or whatever
you may wish to call it.

You are, however, lacking physical evidence of gassing for the testimony
to corroborate (note the correct order not vice versa) as we have been
over many times.

>Note that whether you believe in homicidal gassings is irrelevant.
>The question at hand is why you think this quote is evidence “in the
>same league” as the evidence for homicidal gassings, which, prima
>facie, is clearly is not.

It is only if you insist you have physical evidence which is not where
these stories got started can you think you have a case. But we have
been over that.

And going further, there was zero physical evidence introduced at the
time these stories were accepted as true. That includes the steaming,
electrocution, gassing and vacuuming stories. So in fact you have no
foundation in the origination of these stories.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:55 PDT 1996
Article: 48837 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!nntp2.backbone.olemiss.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:30:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4q59gt$fc[email protected]> <4q[email protected]> <4q[email protected]> <4q[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-58.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27 1:33:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley said:

>[about the alleged harassment of Gutless Giwer]

>>And I have never seen you identify any of the people, besides Marduk, who
>>you are accusing of harrassing your family (and Marduk’s “harassment”
>>seems to consist of one or two e-mail messages sent to your son). Please
>>provide evidence that any of the other regular participants have harassed
>>your family, or withdraw your claim.

>That’s because there was no harassment and no e-mail to his son. But Giwer
>knows that.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Collective FlimFlam
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:58:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 11:02:34 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 10:00:41 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote, citing a troll:

>>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his

>>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.) It just so happens that I’m reading
>>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them cone to the
>>same conclusion that you do.

>That is because _you_ are talking about Vicksburg, while the
>troll is not. _It_ is talking about Vicksberg, as it clearly
>indicated. Vicksburg is off topic – Vicksberg is, as the troll
>will no doubt later illustrate, somewhere in Poland, and
>therefore _on_ topic, as the troll would never post an
>off-topic article here, nosiree h*ber.

>(I recommend you point your rigii at
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>or
>http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>in order to better understand what you are dealing with here.)

>>He who asserts must prove, Mr. Giwer.

>The troll did indeed say that, but the troll most certainly
>did not mean that. It routinely says things that it does not mean.
>It is called “lying,” or “duplicity.” See URL
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/mantra-chanting-fool.html
>for a pristine example.

>>Where did the above information come from?

>Interesting question, particularly when asked of this
>particular troll, which often spouts off without even a remote
>basis or foundation for its blather.

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/email-96-06.html

>(I don’t think you were supposed to ask that question, Sara.)

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-30000-kcal.html

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>Emailed and posted. Followups redirected to the appropriate
>newsgroup, as noted.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Giwer Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there’s egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there’s spam, egg, sausage and spam. That’s not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don’t want any spam!
M: Why can’t she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That’s got spam in it.
M: It hasn’t got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech! I don’t like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam….etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Bloody vikings. You can’t have egg,
bacon
spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don’t like spam!
M: Sh dear, don’t cause a fuss. I’ll have your spam. I love it. I’m
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam…etc
Wa: Shut up! Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam…etc…spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48844 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:10:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 5:14:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>
>> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>> likely agent.
>>
>> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>> collapsed.

>Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>of the V series nerve gasses.

>They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>can block.

You fail to make any points here.

>Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).

>Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).

>Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:

> Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)

> Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
> only fatal after inhalation)

>Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:

> Full protective gear required by operators of chamber

> -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves

Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.

I can not change that.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:31:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <4r[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4r9sa2$[email protected]> <4rbqi4[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:35:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 06 Jul 96 15:07:12, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

> >> Gassings were reported and representatives were begging the
> >> American military to bomb the chambers during the war.

> mnc> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines
> mnc> cut so that no more people could be sent there and so the food
> mnc> would be cut off so those already there would starve.

>Utter nonsense. Go read “Abandonment of the Jews” and follow up on
>the references. I’m still BUSY (today is my son’s birthday – the big
>ONE-OH) so you have time.

For example,

> [email protected] writes:

> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
> those already there would starve.

“In 1944 a new proposalemerged which, it was hoped, might save
Jews from the gas chambers. At first the proposal entailed bombing the
railway
lines leading to Auschwitz. Later it was extended to include bombing
also the
gas chambers and the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of
Jewish
History?”; page 169

–YFE

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 12:22:20 PDT 1996
Article: 35407 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: You may wish to ask a h*ber……
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:11:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rlrgn$4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 12:15:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 11:52:30 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (evil h*ber liar) wrote:

>> The New York Times of August 7, 1933, published the Talmudists’
>>declaration of their “holy war” against Germany in a three-column report

>REALITY CHECK #1: This is from a proven forger. Check the NYT
>archives before accepting anything from this source.

>REALITY CHECK #2: August 7, 1933, eh? Let’s give the forger
>the benefit of the doubt, and consider the question “Why would
>a Jewish community feel the need for a “holy war” against the
>Germans?

>Jewish immigrants were denaturalized
>Jews were denied the right to hold public office
>Jews were denied civil service jobs

Precisely the point. Were Jews not denied those opportunities there
would have been Jews hung for waging agressive war and crimes against
humanity and the like.

>Jews were denied employment in the press
>Jews were denied employment in the broadcasting business
>Jews were denied the right to farm

>From the Nazi Party program of February, 1920 (Which may be
>prior to August 7, 1933…but you may wish to ask a h*ber):

>”Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the
>race can only be one who is of German blood without
>consideration of confession.”

>”The right to determine matters concerning administration and
>law belongs only to the citizen; therefore, we demand that
>every public office of any sort whatsover, whether in the
>Reich, the country or municipality, be filled only by
>citizens.” (1708-PS)

And all this time I have been told these were all Hitler’s ideas. How
could I have been so mislead?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:54 PDT 1996
Article: 48849 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:32:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:36:29 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Jul 1996 01:14:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

> “In 1944 a new proposalemerged which, it was hoped, might save
>Jews from the gas chambers. At first the proposal entailed bombing the railway
>lines leading to Auschwitz. Later it was extended to include bombing also the
>gas chambers and the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of Jewish
>History?”; page 169

Explain it to Alec, not me. He is the one who does not understand what
he is supporting.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:55 PDT 1996
Article: 48851 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:39:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:43:15 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Jul 1996 01:14:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

BTW: It still doesn’t work for the same reasons. Cut off the rail
lines and you cut off food and medicine for everyone. Iron bombs are
not good enough to hit a single building with a single bomb with any
degree of success. It would have required a major strike to get them
all and in the process the crematoria would also be taken out, thus
doing wonders for the general sanitation.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48852 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is appropriate?
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:44:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:48:45 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 12:58:49 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>[email protected] (Nele Abels) wrote:
>>
>>>”My opinions, the
>>>only opinions
>>>worth having.”
>>> M. Giwer
>>
>>>”Loquientiae multum,
>>>sapientiae parum.”
>>> Sallust

>[…]

>>>I will collect his contributions to the discussion and to condense them
>>>as a criticism of “revisionist” techniques of discussion shown on a
>>>grateful object. This is in my opinion the only way to defend speaking
>>>with holocaust-deniers.
>>

>> Anyone want to explain this one?

>[Weakminded drivel cleared]

>I don’t think that you have any say in a discussion on how to react
>on your spams, Mr. Giwer. Apart from that, out of sheer curiosity,
>did you understand anything of my essay? If you want to hold up
>your “IQ163” in front of those you call “lurkers”, you should at
>least try to produce a coherent answer…

You are too new to this conference to know but I was specifically asked
my IQ and I answered the question.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:51:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rlgvo$j[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 2:56:10 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 7 Jul 1996 00:45:04 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>> OBC) wrote:

>> It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.
>>
>> It is like some innocent child hearing his Marine father using a
>> nickname for some dish from the slop chute at Quantico and concocting a
>> horror story around it. “They make my Daddy eat plastic pizza and then
>> he got sick and died.”
>>
>> But then there were secret synthetic foods made by the plant that did
>> nothing more than simply not feeding people would do.

>Gee, Mr. Giwer, looks like _you’re_ the one who’s mistaken in reading the
>ironic commentary on the food served to the prisoners. Nowhere is the
>claim made that the “Buna Soup” made people starve _more_ quickly than not
>being fed; the article simply says that the stuff wasn’t worth eating.
>(If the soup caused diarrhea, of course, it could result in quicker-than-
>usual weight loss and dehydration).

The very fact that people believe the story is what is laughable. It is
quite in the league with my “plastic pizza” suggestion.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 08:22:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4ra[email protected]> <4rbmos[email protected]> <4rcc[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:26:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 03:52:44 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>>[email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] writes:
>>>> A possible position. However as you have seen the game played here
>>>>some derivative source is cited and then there is a demand that the source
>>>>be disproven as though it were graven in stone.
>>>> That is unacceptable.
>>
>>> The point is, you and your allies post rather dubious arguments,
>>>then claim the burden of proof is on the other side, when in fact the other
>>>side demolishes your arguments.
>>
>>The point is that similar methods are used by both sides

> False.

>>and there is in
>>fact similar demolition, that is, it in the eyes of the beholder.

> False.

>> What keeps the game going is the pretention by the holohuggers that
>>their sources are unimpeachable.

> False.

Mere assertion is always the best way to make a point.

>>>> Mothers are not fathers.
>>
>>> No shit, Sherlock????!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>>>So why do you think there is a problem with me when it is the people
>>>>posting to me and about me?
>>
>>> Oh, well, it was little things, like you calling Hilary Ostrov a
>>>”simpering bitch”. Now in most dialects of English, that is highly
>>>insulting. Perhaps you speak an unusual dialiect, or for that matter,
>>>idiolect. Or are you just being an arsehole?
>>
>>HRO’s posts to me and about me have been primarily personal attacks and
>>insults. What makes you think she should be immune from response?

> It is not a personal attack to call Mr. Giwer a liar. He lies. That
>is a statement of fact which can be proved to courtroom standards. I have
>offered a wager that I can prove this to a neutral arbiter from the
>American Arbitration Association. Mr. Giwer has not responded to this
>wager.

Mere assertion is always the best resopnse.

I have seen the “wager game” played out for 19 years in the public
forums and I am not interested in it in the least. It is only newbies
who still engage in it.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48926 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vistachrome.com!news.supernet.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:22:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:26:16 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 06 Jul 96 23:05:52, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz] [Sat 06 Jul 96 02:25][Sat 06 Jul 96 >21:36][0]*>

> >> a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
> >> started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
> >> death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to
> >> death.

> mnc> What an asshole. We know that one “whiff” causes immediate
> mnc> unconsciousness.

>Only if the cyanide release was fast enough – which you’ve been
>arguing against.

>Good lord, Matt – have you really burned yourself out already?!? The
>others, Moran the moron and Huber the hopeless ect, aren’t worth
>trying to match wits with. I thought thta *YOU* might give me a
>little bit of a fight, but not with this kind of nonsense!

>You did a much more creditable job, albeit still failing, in Debate,
>Politics, Controv, Soapbox and even the Ilink conferences!

>This is pathetic!

You are trying a fool’s game and not answering the mail.

We KNOW that “one whiff” does not cause recoverable unconsciousness and
we know that the completion of the story requires the flesh and clothing
to fuse into gelatinous masses. If you believe one you believe them
both.

You are showing yourself no better than a holohugger, yet you pretending
rationality in your phone calls.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:59 PDT 1996
Article: 48931 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:48:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 2:52:29 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 19:54:38 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> No offense intended, but why were the nazis experimenting with phenol
>shots in
>>1942, after they already supposedly knew how quickly zyklon could kill? It’s
>>somewhat of a non sequitor, isn’t it?

>Well, because the Nazis weren’t “experimenting” with phenol shots. The
>Nazis used phenol shots as a method of execution for the sick and
>invalided in the infirmaries. As to the time it took to kill- a phenol
>shot to the heart killed in a matter of seconds.

But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? Or the
hollow two inch nails to get between the ribs?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 19:56:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49067 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.new-york.net!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 20:37:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 201
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <177B49EB4S[email protected]> <4r4oba$c6n@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <177B69A84S86.B[email protected]> <4r75[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 1:41:39 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 14:25:21 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>> The persistance of the myth does not need any nebulous conspiracy or
>>guilt to explain. All you have to do is read what the holohuggers post
>>on this conference as a microcosm of the real world.

> The failure of “revisionists” to shake this “myth” does not need any
>repression to explain. All you have to do is to read the lies,
>distortions, false logic, and other intellectual shortcomings in the works
>of revisionists – including Mr. Giwer himself – and it becomes quite clear
>that the “real world” is something they are hardly qualified to talk
>about.

And the more honest note the mere assertion of such things rather than a
demonstration of them at the time is all the holohuggers have going for
them.

>> It is not permitted to publically express any questions about the
>>current dogmatic form of the holocaust in any public media. In some
>>countries it is illegal to do so in any media, public or private.

> This was not always the case even in Germany (and I do wish they would
>repeal the laws, as it gives people like Mr. Giwer a wonderful red herring
>to wave about). It is certainly not the case in this country.

> Mr. Giwer has complained of conspiracies to censor him and harrass him
>and his family due to his posts here.

At no time have I made any claim to any conspiracy. But you know that.
So what would have brought to you mind?

He can, of course, supply no
>evidence other than his own word, which has been proved false on many
>occasions – and he can, of course, provide no evidence that any genuine
>harrassment has come as a result of his questioning of the Holocaust,
>rather than his provable lies and libel. But he pretends to be unaware
>that one can avoid that in this forum through the use of anonymous
>remailers such as anon.penet.fi.

It is testimony. Suddenly testimony is not good enough for you?

> Revisionists have come into this forum and left after they were unable
>to reply to rebuttals of their logic and falsification of their evidence.
>Mr. Giwer’s lies to the contrary, Greg Raven was presented with cogent
>critiques of his methodology and of the distortions and dishonest
>omissions contained in the sources he cited for his own arguments. Like
>Mr. Giwer, he now refers to reminders of his own proven dishonesty as
>”personal attacks.”

If he was presented with what you claim why has that not been done in
the last six months or so?

> Friedrich Berg was presented with technical references on toxicology
>and gaping holes in his own reasoning, plus evidence that he distorted
>material he cited in his own work. Mr. Giwer has been presented with my
>material addressing Berg on more than one occasion. Despite Mr. Giwer’s
>professed scientific and engineering background, Mr. Giwer has not been
>able to offer any substantive response to it.

I have no idea who this Berg person is. However any responses I have
supplied have been based upon science and engineering. That you may not
have realized that is merely an example of your lack of knowledge.

> Michael Hoffman got similar treatment; his references were checked
>(the affidavits of Morgen and Mittelstadt) and it was shown how he was
>reading them in a completely invalid manner. He too provably lied – not
>about the Holocaust, but about his justification for denigrating my
>knowledge of Hebrew. (His claimed justification was a comment I made
>nearly three weeks _after_ his insult was delivered. I don’t _think_ he
>owns a time machine.)

Again, never heard of him.

>> I would have thought the reason for the persistance was obvious by
>>inspection.

> Mr. Giwer has shown some deficiencies in the thinking department
>before. Not to mention the reading comprehension and memory departments.

Again, mere assertion.

>> The issue you point out is another matter, it is questioning why people
>>would raise it to the status of a cult and why there would be such
>>vigorous defense of whatever the current truth happens to be. The
>>”explanations” the holohuggers give, such as preventing it from
>>happening again, are obviously transparent and false.

> BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!

Because it HAS HAPPENED again.

> I wonder if Mr. Giwer would like to turn a similar skeptical eye on
>the explanations of the IHR “revisionists” as to the motives for their
>vigorous efforts to disprove any Nazi policy of mass murder, using
>doctored “evidence” if need be.

I have not seen examples of that. Perhaps you have some.

>> What you cite is merely one suggestion as to why this is done. Blood
>>money for Israel is another suggestion. However at this point the
>>reasons suggested are speculation.
>>
>> Consider the difference in Russia. They trot out their war heroes in
>>November and remember losses on that day and it is over for another
>>year. But in November the main speeches are of triumph, of winning the
>>war.
>>
>> However a better analogy would be in there were monuments and museums
>>and regular public speeches in Germany commemorating losing the war. It
>>is as though the South commemorated losing the War between the States.
>>As though England commemorated the lose of the American colonies, Mexico
>>the loss of Texas and California.
>>
>> This holocaust memorializing is a total inversion of human nature.

> So too is the complete lack of recantation of those supposedly coerced
>false confessions.

It is difficult to recant from the grave.

One or two might be explainable as the kind of
>brainwashing of the witchcraft trial kind, as some “revisionists” feebly
>try to pretend, but the number of testimonies contrary to self-interest
>is, in my view, too large – and too unbalanced by later retraction – to be
>convincing. Mr. Giwer is welcome to address this point, which I have
>raised before and which no “revisionist” has dared to touch.

Which also explains why the witches did not recant.

But you have also read here many exculpatory statements by those at the
top of the chain clearly indicating they knew nothing about any such
thing and were quite surprised to hear the testimony.

>>As I
>>have said before, it is like the widow who visits the grave of her
>>husband every Sunday and has not changed anything in the house since the
>>day he died.
>>
>>There is something very, very wrong with this behavior. It needs help,
>>not encouragement.

> The same can be said of Mr. Giwer’s behavior. He claims that he is
>just trying to get this newsgroup back on track, without personal attacks.
>However, he has run away from discussions of cremation and of diesel
>exhaust gassing which he initiated. Clearly he doesn’t have the capacity
>to debate the material with someone who has some familiarity with it.

What do you think I have run away from? I have must have posted at
least a hundred messages on each of those two subjects alone. Perhaps
you have simply not following very closely.

Or perhaps you are and are merely trying to address the lurkers with
assertion knowing they will not check for themselves.

> And he has also said he is here to debunk. (But what kind of
>debunking is it that needs to lie, as Mr. Giwer has provably done, time
>and again?) Earlier said that his purpose here was to amuse himself
>dealing with the type of people he found here – in other words, to troll.

You assertions of lies are again merely that. The closest thing that I
can remember to that is someone without a scientific background claiming
something I say about science is a lie. I have found several
“refutations” of my statements by nonscientists who have not the
slightest idea what they are talking about.

> It is hard to see how all of Mr. Giwer’s statements here can be true.
>Many are provably false. This is not a personal attack; it is a statement
>of fact which I have backed up with self-contradictory quotes from Mr.
>Giwer’s own posts as well as comparison of the words of others (including
>my own) with Mr. Giwer’s blatant misrepresentations of those words, and
>his dishonest editing.

Do you really think the lurkers are swallowing this?

> Anytime Mr. Giwer wishes to engage in serious debate about the
>Holocaust he is free to do so and I am here for him. But he cannot read
>with comprehension, cannot remember what he has read (or, sometimes,
>written!) and has run away from substantive discussion of issues where he
>claims to have a solid grounding, technical and scientific issues. It is
>clear that he cannot cope with the material, so he must lie and spam and
>troll and hope to distract people from the intellectual failures which are
>well-documented in his own posts.

> I have given him every opportunity to respond with serious debate, but
>he has run away time and again, one time lying that I have deleted his
>work (which I have not done, and he of course never offers documentation
>of his own claims). It is clear that he is just a lying troll who has no
>real interest or ability to discuss these issues (or even understand them,
>as he demonstrates repeated failures of reading comprehension).

> If he wants people to stop referring to him as a lying troll, all he
>has to do is stop lying and stop trolling. It is that simple. But so far
>he has shown no mental capacity to do anything better. Too bad.

Nice try but no cigar.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 21:34:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49072 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mauving right along
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:54:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

A most amazing thing has occurred.

After months of insisting upon blue coloring, after hundreds of messages
on the subject, testimony as to a different color is presented.

Lo and Behold! The color is easily misidentified!

Can this misidentification be applied to the original blue?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 21:34:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <01bb63ae[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:42 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:59957 alt.conspiracy:65400 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24898 alt.politics.white-power:35550 alt.radio.talk:11910 alt.revisionism:49074 alt.skinheads:31181

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:25:06 -0500, [email protected] (Wonderful
Lady) wrote:

>I might mention that Jews have more intelligence than other whites–about
>10-15 IQ points higher. In addition, jews have given whites far more than
>they have taken. Science, medicine, democracy, military methods,
>agriculture, religion, philosophy, psychology, ethics, finance,
>journalism, tolerance–these are the things which jews have given all
>mankind.

You read like a Jewish white supremacist or Nation of Islam type.

>If the jews had not been born, the world would not be as advanced as it is
>today. I believe there should be a single day every year in which jews
>should be honored. I honor jews every day, period. If all races were this
>productive and this responsible for their actions and for the rights of
>others, we would not have racial hatred, high crime, or irresponsibility
>by members of certain groups. Racial conflict would be at a new all time
>low. There would be no reason to hate, only to love.

From the people who gave genocide to the world.

>Wonderful Lady
>Repect all races equally … Demand the best from them … Do whatever you want as long as you don’t harm someone else…

Very wierd person.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:46 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:14:30 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>> >> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>> >>
>> >> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>> >> likely agent.
>> >>
>> >> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>> >> collapsed.
>>
>> >Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>> >having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>> >developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>> >to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>> >GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>> >of the V series nerve gasses.
>>
>> >They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>> >neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>> >down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>> >neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>> >can block.
>>
>> You fail to make any points here.

>I am providing background information so that the reader may render
>a somewhat informed judgement on the topic. I’m well aware that putting
>things in context and providing information is a foreign concept to
>you, but I have no hope of ever making you acknowledge anything.

>> >Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>> >body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>> >recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>> >to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>> >significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>> >thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).
>>
>> >Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).
>>
>> >Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:
>>
>> > Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)
>>
>> > Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
>> > only fatal after inhalation)
>>
>> >Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:
>>
>> > Full protective gear required by operators of chamber
>>
>> > -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves
>>
>> Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
>> reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
>> to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.
>>
>> I can not change that.

>Nor can I change the fact that you so blatently omitted the subsequent reasons
>I posted as to why Zyklon B would be a technically and operationally better
>agent than a nerve agent such as Sarin. Why don’t you puzzle those reasons
>out for a while and then get back to me when you actually have something
>interesting to say other than insipid comments and non-sequitors?

I made one point, that the time frame for HCN deaths were on the same
order as nerve gas. You went on to repeat a canned answer to something
I did not address. At no time did I state that nerve gas would have
been a better choice.

So how much did you want left in? The point is very simple. The time
frame for death from breathing cyanide and from nerve gas (and from
carbon monoxide for that matter) are all reported to be approximately
the same by the eyewitnesses.

The point I was making, which has NOTHING whatever to do with “why
didn’t they use nerve gas?,” is that finding HCN in the same time frame
as nerve gas was my first serious indication that there was something
wrong with the stories based upon my assumption that that it had been
nerve gas.

To go further, it was later finding CO deaths on the same order as HCN
and nerve gas that indicated there was something seriously wrong with
the stories.

Now if you would like to address the point I am making, please do so.

If you want to run off on why nerve gas was a poor choice, do not imply
you are addressing anything I posted.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49111 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:46:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rknub$m[email protected]> <4rlmc8$o[email protected]> <4rmu4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:47:47 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 08:36:43 -0700, [email protected] (Mike Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Rich Graves wrote:
>>[email protected] (DvdThomas) writes:
>>As always, your organization is welcome on the web, and encouraged to
>>participate in substantive discussions rather than spamming a la Giwer. I
>>challenge you to point out a single message in this forum supporting the
>>censorship of liars on the basis of content.

> Matt Giwer posted several supporting the censorhip of alleged defamatory
>lies (i.e., libel) prior to judicial determination of same, provided that
>the libel was not authored by Matt Giwer.

That, as expected, is false.

I supported ONLY stopping a website from violating copyright.

But then of course, holohuggers always lie.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What are your views of Jews?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rf1n[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:31:54 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 20:33:08 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree says:
>In response to the baron’s words of wisdom:
>As usual the baoron resumes to speak for too many, while not realizing
>that he only possessess one opinion; HIS OWN!

>Richard Schultz wrote:
>>
>> Alexander Baron ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>> : This is typical Exterminationist sophistry; most people (including
>> : Revisionists) don’t hate “the Jews” but they are utterly sick to death of
>> : their whining and wailing.

>Yeah, baron, and we are also sick and tired of you.

Another “we” heard from. An old fart imagining he has membership in
some group that approves of his posts.

Why don’t you get
>a job taking care of the Queen’s horses?

You took a great fall?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rc02l$kj[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:00 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:06:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden

>We are still waiting to see it. You have yet to provide such
>”physical evidence” which would pass the “revisionist” standards
>applied when evidence to the Holocaust is given.

>Provide it, or shut up.

>As long as you don’t provide it, you are also “proving” (by
>an extension of your “revisionist arguments”) that Dresden was
>not bombed.

I have pointed to the available physical evidence that does not need one
word of testimony to support the event. Apparently you can not read it.

># of mass extermination at Belsen.

>I think you’re confusing Belsen and Belzec. Please check this
>before you’re making further claims about Belsen (which are, of
>course, irrelevant to Belzec).

You are attempting to SUBSTITUTE Belzec for Belsen, Belsen being what
has been under discussion.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:05 PDT 1996
Article: 49128 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:31:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 07 Jul 96 19:38:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[To Alec Grynspan] [Sat 06 Jul 96 21:32][Sun 07 Jul 96 19:12][0]*>

> >> entailed bombing the railway lines leading to Auschwitz. Later
> >> it was extended to include bombing also the gas chambers and
> >> the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of Jewish
> >> History?”; page 169

> mnc> Explain it to Alec, not me. He is the one who does not
> mnc> understand what he is supporting.

>Ahhh, but I *DO* understand, Matt.

>There you have others supporting my statements – that the allies
>were asked to bomb the gas chambers before the end of the war.

As I said, “The LAST time I heard this,” which is quite unrelated to
more recent posts.

>Now – why would somebody refuse to do so, knowing the microscopic
>cost and the magnitude of the Nazi hysteria for exterminating the
>Jews?

Because iron bombs would have had to destroy everything in sight in
order to get those four buildings.

>Look up the State Department’s reasoning as to why it should
>continue.

>Simple research, Matt! After you’ve done some research, I’ll have
>the free time to defeat you – errr – debate you.

Why do you not post the “reasoning” since you know it?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 49129 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:48:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rknub$m[email protected]> <4rlmc8$o[email protected]> <4rmu49[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:49:34 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49129 alt.censorship:88090

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:21:05 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Mike Stein) wrote:

>> Matt Giwer posted several supporting the censorhip of alleged defamatory
>> lies (i.e., libel) prior to judicial determination of same, provided that
>> the libel was not authored by Matt Giwer.

>And, as you indicated in another thread, Mr. Stein, Matt Giwer’s
>intention was to get the complete site taken down, not just the libel in
>question.

>Matt Giwer also posted messages indicating that he was going to try to
>get another site taken down for violation of copyright. I note for the
>record that, in commenting on this copyright terrorism at the time, I
>explicitly refused to go tit-for-tat by notifying Disney’s lawyers about
>the appropriated images on _his_ web pages. (I think it was Disney;
>it might have been a Bloom County gif or something like that.)

>But perhaps DvdThomas will claim that Matt Giwer’s _goal_ was to
>_eliminate_ censorship, and he was simply choosing an unorthodox
>_means_, to wit: _encouraging_ it…

But as with all holohuggers are you are liar.

My complaint was legally with copyright violation.

As to the libel, Alec Grynspan has “testified” to that and Davey-girl
has been too busy selling machine tools to participated lately.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 49134 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At last it can be told
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:34:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <8C3A3FE.081101[email protected]> <4rcf[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:35:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 03:24:18 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>>[email protected] (ANGUS MCLELLAN) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>
>>>[email protected] writes
>>>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>>>Subject: When I said it
>>>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT
>>
>>>> When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was
>>>>wrong.
>>>>”No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
>>>>finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were
>>>>tried had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness
>>>>required by our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by
>>>>the international community. By our standards that crime arose under an
>>>>ex post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
>>>>guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle.”
>>>>–U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
>>>>Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190.
>>>> I would say it is good company to be wrong with.

> Last time I looked appeal to authority was still a fallacy.

This is not an appeal, it it clearly a reference to good company to be
in as is stated. Douglas may or may not be (have been) correct. Your
lack fo substantive refutation is another volume in the ongoing
discussion.

>>>I fail to see why.
>>
>>>I have asked before and I’ll ask again (please note, these are not
>>>rhetorical questions and I would welcome the views of any readers) :-
>>
>>>A.
>>>What was the relevance of the US constitution, bill of rights, statute
>>>law or precedents to the Nuremberg process ?
>>
>> They incorporate principles of law and justice that are common to all
>>civilized countries, such as the prohibition of ex post facto laws.

> Although it is not permitted in the US, ex post facto establishment of
>penalties for acts which were criminal before the act is a more debatable
>matter. Perhaps Mr. Giwer would care to cite the code which defines
>”civilized” other than his “Because! I! Say! So!”

Civilized means, among other things, countries that do not permit ex
post facto laws to be enacted. Of course you, being neutral on the
matter, would agree with any US law retroactively making brain sucking
abortions equal to murder and mandating execution of the doctors who
performed it and the women who paid for these murders.

But of course you would support such a law because you have no problem
with brain-sucking and the like.

You would also have no problem wtih executing those who let blacks die
of syphillis without treatment because they wanted to study the progress
of the disease. We have a Surgeon General nominee in need of execution
under that law.

These are clearly two different examples and politically opposed. I can
give you more if you would like. (How about using the FBI against
political enemies as a capital offense?) But then you will go to any
effort you can to exonorate the idiots you pretend to support in public
but will question in private.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:07 PDT 1996
Article: 49135 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:00:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rlgvo$jk[email protected]> <4rnhq[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:01:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:23:20 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <4[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>>OBC) wrote:

>>>Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.002
>>>Last-modified: 1993/10/24
>>>See Also: holocaust diet.01

>>> I.G. Auschwitz: I.G. Farben’s Buna (synthetic rubber) division, built
>>> near the site of the Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II concentration
>>> camps. (Farben eventually built their own corporate concentration
>>> camp at the site, to eliminate the need to march prisoners several
>>> miles to and from the Buna plant every day, as had been the practice.
>>> It was known as Monowitz, and had a sign over the gate which read
>>> “Arbeit Macht Frei.”)

>>>[Editor’s note: I understand that the “Arbeit Macht Frei” sign can be seen
>>>today over the gate at Auschwitz I – this raises the question of whether or
>>>not there were more than one, or if the one the author mentions was moved to
>>>Auschwitz I at a later date, or if the author was simply incorrect. knm]

>>> “Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz. The diet fed to I.G.
>>> Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous ‘Buna Soup’ – a
>>> nutritional aid not available to other prisoners – resulted in an
>>> average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
>>> nine pounds a week. At the end of a month, the change in the
>>> prisoner’s appearance was marked; at the end of two months, the
>>> inmates were not recognizable except as caricatures formed of skin,
>>> bones, and practically no flesh; after three months, they were either
>>> dead or so unfit for work that they were marked for release to the
>>> gas chambers at Birkenau. Two physicians who studied the effect of
>>> the I.G. diet on the inmates noticed that ‘the normally nourished
>>> prisoner at Buna could make up the deficiency by his own body for a
>>> period of three months….The prisoners were condemned to burn up
>>> their own body weight while working and, providing no infections
>>> occurred, finally died of exhaustion.'”>> others – typical SS Auschwitz punishment reports> (Borkin, 125)

>>> Work Cited

>>> Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York:
>>> The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.

>> It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.

>The Giwer-troll provides further corroboration of Mike Stein’s
>assessment in another thread that he (the troll) lacks the intellect,
>intelligence or comprehension skills to be able to contribute in any
>meaningful way in a discussion of the history of the Holocaust.

>If anything is laughable it is that the troll deludes himself by
>thinking that he is capable of participating in any debate.

>[balance snipped]

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: [email protected]
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster – The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49136 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is appropriate?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:01:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:02:59 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:31:32 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>: wrote:
>:>[Weakminded drivel cleared]

>:>I don’t think that you have any say in a discussion on how to react
>:>on your spams, Mr. Giwer. Apart from that, out of sheer curiosity,
>:>did you understand anything of my essay? If you want to hold up
>:>your “IQ163” in front of those you call “lurkers”, you should at
>:>least try to produce a coherent answer…

>:You are too new to this conference to know but I was specifically asked
>:my IQ and I answered the question.

>If your mind really were so well-oiled as you claim, you would have noticed that
>I didn’t ask “Where do the IQ163 come from?” but “Would you please
>answer in a way that your claim of IQ163 looks to be more than an involuntary
>self-satire?” You prove over and over again, that you are not able to read
>thoroughly, and therefore you are not qualified to comment upon historical
>subjects. Apart from that, trying to imply that I am less qualified to contribute
>to alt.revisionism because I’m “to new to this conference” his amusing.
>Assuming that the Old is better per se is an early modern concept…

>Nele

IF you had a measurable IQ, son of Jew hating murders, you would not be
posting this nonsense.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49137 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:05:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rm7pm$ot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:07:05 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 09:42:30 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Cite the migration.
>>

>Casimir the Great of Poland invited the Jews to come to Poland to form a
>middle class.

Buzzer there.

That was nearly 1000 years after there was anyone to invite. They were
not invited from “palestine” but from other countries long after (400
years) after the Judeans were supposed to have migrated.

>They spread to Russia from there, since Poland virtually controlled
>Russia and Eastern Europe.

>To learn the date, look up Casimir the Great of Poland.

Yes, the book is titled POLAND. I read it.

>Matt – your brain cells are getting flabby. Too much Dahlman-baiting and
>trolling gets to you after a while. You need some solid debating
>exercise.

You are pretending to what you do not know and are becoming a holohugger
with each succeeding post.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:09 PDT 1996
Article: 49158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Seven Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 4)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4risjp[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:55 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49158 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:151

On 6 Jul 1996 19:24:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Not only did Matt Giwer refuse to answer the questions Ken asked, he
>seems to have posted a copyright violation (i.e. the Monty Python spam sketch).

> Actually, if Giwer posted an answer to even one of Ken’s questions, I
>would be amazed. If he answered two or more… naah, that’s asking too much of
>Giwer.

As he could not read the answer what would be the point?

> Derek
>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:10 PDT 1996
Article: 49164 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for Matt Giwer
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rm63[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:54:03 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:58:22 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>Mr. Giwer:
>
>Once again, I ask this question. You said:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>> >>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>> >>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his

>I responded with:
>> >In article ,
>> >[email protected] wrote:

>> >>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>> >>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.) It just so happens that I’m reading
>> >>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them come to the
>> >>same conclusion that you do.
>
>For one thing, the scorched earth policy came from SHERMAN, not Grant.
>
>So are you going to respond to my direct question? It is NOT insulting, it
>is NOT a personal attack. It is a simple question.

I am talking about Sherman also.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49165 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They don’t call Giwer the cotrol for nothing!’
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 19:29:30 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> It is unclear what a schwarte is doing pointing here.

> I think Mattie Giwer needs to lie down, as he is even *more* confused
>than ever.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell db[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49167 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:49 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 05:38:39 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>Equinox wrote:

>[nerve gas question of unclear intent deleted]

There was no nerve gas question.

>> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>
>> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>likely agent.

> Mr. Giwer has demonstrably misunderstood the descriptions.

What is there about death in any time frame from instantaneous to 20
minutes have I not understood?

>> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>collapsed.

> Mr. Giwer has misread so many things that it is not clear how he can
>be capable of forming any valid opinion about any of this. He neither
>understands nor remembers what he reads.

When lacking in substance …

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 49169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5JUL19961310574[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:52 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 96 19:18:00 +0100, [email protected] (ANGUS
MCLELLAN) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes

>>Equinox wrote:
>
>>>My question is this; how can anyone doubt the extensive stocks of
>>>nerve gas in the Nazi inventory? … How can this be explained away?

>>It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>likely agent.
>>When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>collapsed.

>It is indubitably the case that Nazi Germany disposed of stocks of the
>nerve agent GA (Tabun). The much-improved GB (Sarin) was available in
>only limited quantities, while the further improved GD (Soman) was never
>produced on any scale. VX, mentioned by the original poster, was a
>British post-war development derived from insecticides and vastly
>improved in lethality and especially persistence over the primitive GA.

What is with you folks? You reply to a post of mine with an answer that
has no relationship to anything I posted. You are the second. Are you
unable to answer the mail?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:13 PDT 1996
Article: 49171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group… (was Re: Baron exp…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:16:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:17:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 17:50:03 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Only a holohugger would take what I post as a “vile insult.”

>Only Mr. Giwer would defend his vile insults with more insults, but
>he is not even fooling himself.

> Only a Nazi would take a permanent worldwide economic boycott of
> Germany at the depths of the Depression as a threat.

>Only an ignoramus would characterize the attempted boycott as
>unprovoked. Only an ignoramus would characterize the failed boycott
>as a real threat.

>And only Mr. Giwer would imply that I have ever labeled him a “Nazi”
>when all I have ever done is point out his enormous ignorance.

You are of course invited to post the provocation and the dates or to
admit you are fantasizing and in need of professional care.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49172 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They probably thought they were being inoculated’
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:21:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:22:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 23:26:58 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> And all the while never thinking of a simple air bubble to cause an
>> embolism and heart failure, death in five minutes. Stupid Germans.

> You have a medical reference for this? A pulmonary embolism would
>take more than five minutes to form. If it is not of sufficient size it could take
>days to kill. I am currently dealing with a case of a man who died of
>undiagnosed embolisms. He lived for at least ten days after the p.e began.

Dear jerkoff,

The injections are reported to be directly to the heart. Therefore they
form immediately. Kapisch?

Of course not.

You are a lying holohugger.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!nntp2.backbone.olemiss.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE DIESEL EXHAUST CONTROVERSY
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:39:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4qkl9v$l[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-03.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27 6:42:30 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (ibokor) wrote:

>DvdThomas ([email protected]) wrote:
>:
>: That’s DIESEL. Very few cars have diesel engines. Was this the case in
>: this unreferenced citation?

>A great many cars in continental Europe have diesel engines.
>Diesel engines are available as options on cars manufactured by:
>Renault,
>Peugeot,
>Citroen,
>Fiat,
>Volkswagen,
>Mercedes,
>Volvo,
>Opel,
>Ford.

>There are millions of diesel powered passenger cars on the roads of
>Europe.

The story was supposed to have happened in the US. Diesel passenger
cars have a very bad reputation over here.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:25 PDT 1996
Article: 49176 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:09:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:11:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:32:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Bradley Smith) writes:

># Even little Danny Keren

>Hmm. “Little”? In terms of body weight? Compared to you? Sure.

>Hope I’m still “fit for work”, nontheless? Can still do ’bout
>50 push-ups and 15 pull-ups, on a good day.

I am, as are we all, so impressed.

A strong back is a terrible thing to waste.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:26 PDT 1996
Article: 49177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: A TRICKY VIPER…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rkpam$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:09 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:65575 alt.censorship:88127 alt.revisionism:49177 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:334175 alt.politics.usa.republican:230710 alt.politics.perot:50280

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:50:07 EDT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>
>>Michael Perin wrote:

>>>Dear Luke,

>>>I saw a segment of C-SPAN around the middle of June when a caller from
>>>Georgia reported a strange incident that she had seen in her local paper
>>>relative to the Militia issue. She said that it was reported in her paper
>>>that two supposed Militia members who had been arrested a few months
>>>earlier because they had been planning to blow up federal buildings, were
>>>in fact, BATF/FBI agents, and that the whole thing was a set up hoax!
>>>Although the arrests of these hoaxsters made the headlines all accross the

>>>country, the fact that they were federal agents posing as Militia members
>>>in order to discredit the Militia movement was completely ignored by the
>>>national media.

>> And what has come out about this “Viper Militia” so far does not make
>>much sense.

>I see! Getting wiped out and humiliated in the Holocaust discussion, so the
>Giwer-bot decides to troll the militia issue. What an unmitigated defeat
>the Giwer-loser has suffered.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49180 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:25 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 14:45:23 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <4[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ceacaa) wrote:

>> Jamie McCarthy wrote on July 7
>>
>> > Then please explain, Mr. Allen, the photo of Krema II, taken by the
>> > Bauleitung, that _clearly_ shows three “little chimneys”
>>
>> >Ceacaa then went on to write a lot of verbiage about the >photograph:
>> words without any apparent point or conclusion.

>[Mr. Allen’s denier drivel snipped]

>> In short, the three boxes are just that, three boxes of
>> roofing material laid out at the job site.

>Well, this pretty much confirms that Mr. Allen is simply grasping at
>straws now. What _evidence_ does he have that the “little chimneys” are
>”boxes of roofing material?” None. How does Mr. Allen explain that these
>”boxes of roofing material” can be seen on the roof of L.Keller 1 in the
>USAAF aerial photo of August 1944- a _year and a half_ later? He can’t.
>Given that there is a plethora of photgraphic, documentary, and eyewitness
>evidence that descibes these “little chimneys” as part of the Zyklon B
>introduction column system.

On the aerial photo on Nizkor that is in this time frame there are FOUR
patches that are much too LARGE to be the THREE LITTLE chimneys beyond
the fact that they are neither on the center line nor in a straight
line.

It would behoove you to post the aerial photo you are talking about as
it is not that one.

>Occam’s Razor would have us opt for the _simplest_ explination for their
>existance: they were part of the Zyklon B introduction column and NOT
>”boxes ofroofing material” that just happened to be left on the roof for
>18 months.

The simplest explanation is that the marks on the aerial photos have
nothing whatsoever to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49181 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Do Real Men Scream? (was Re: ‘I was afraid of Bothmann’)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4qvr62$kfb@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:29 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 04:00:42 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>>As I have some difficulties with your slang, I didn’t first understood
>>>>>what you told with “mess of psyrinks”. All the psychiatrists that I
>>>>>can poll are among the firsts classified in the contests for the
>>>>>hospitals (for example, 5, 8 or 11 among 260). The most part of the
>>>>>French psychiatrists pass this examination. These that I know are
>>>>>always classified in the first quarter.
>>
>>>>>But this pedigree has nothing to do with your claim: that men can’t
>>>>>scream only in fear of death. It is ridiculous, and it remains
>>>>>ridiculous. I don’t find you very likeable, but since I had my own
>>>>>experience, I hope that you will never try it yourself.
>>
>>>> I have serious problems with your restatement also. I did not say can
>>>>not anything. I said do not. I have no idea what you are trying to say
>>>>with “only in fear of”.
>>
>>>Try “only when afraid of dying” instead of “only in fear of death”. Is
>>>it clearer?
>>
>>>>But primarily, I was questioning that you “polled” anyone and implying
>>>>that you made it up.
>>
>>>>Is that clear enough?
>>
>>>Yes. I had my own experience of a such situation, but I’m lying. I
>>>told you to read the book from the French headsman in 1792, and
>>>another books from this time, but you wan’t. I told you to see the TV
>>>reports 1/4h after the Manchester’s bombing, but you didn’t see what I
>>>saw. The testimonies from the WWII are more recent, but faked. I can
>>>ask a dozen of psychiatrists if it is likely (that a man will scream
>>>when afraid of dying), but what I will report will be made up.
>>
>>>It’s very clear. You don’t have even the beginning of an argument. You
>>>have only an opinion and use it to tell that all the testimonies of
>>>the gassings (of men) are faked. On the top, you don’t know if a
>>>gassing was painful after some seconds for the victims.
>>
>> And all of this simply because I noted the ready accessability of a
>>dozen psychologists to poll?
>>
>> You don’t even realize that little girls practice screaming.

> Nothing in Dr. Bilik’s post allows this as a valid logical conclusion.

>>You don’t even realize that most men know as much about how to scream as
>>how to yodel.

> I was able to yodel the first time I tried it though I admit that I
>might be unusual. Screaming is much easier.

> Mr. Giwer is clearly projecting his own handicaps upon other people.
>Unless he thinks the pitch is significant, and that what men do ought to
>be called “yelling?” Well, Mr. Giwer has already amply demonstrated the
>”paupacy” of his skills in the English language. What’s one more example?

You are still playing the fool on this one in your pretension that you
actually know women whose speaking voice is in the frequency range of a
scream.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49183 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:32 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:59:48 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing.
># I had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>#
># But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
># likely agent.

>What “times involved”? What on earth are you talking about?

Stop the heart and five to ten minutes is the time to death, with five
minutes being most certainly the onset of irreversable brain damage.
But you know that.

>Back to your rubbish of the HCN “taking too long to evaporate”?

Evidence of that was posted here in the “greater part of” technical
report on it, noting that “greater part of” is a technical term for
“half of” in english indicating an exponentially decaying release. That
post lead to 6-12 hours as the 99% release time.

But you know that.

># When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of
># cards collapsed.

>So, no gassings in US prisons also? They also use cyanide, right?

No Zykon B used there.

>Get a grip, Giwer.

Repeat after me, A computer scientist is an applied mathematician not a
scientist save in title.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <5JUL199613105743@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 17:06:17 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>ANGUS MCLELLAN wrote:

>> So, why not “plain old cyanide” ?

>The information has been posted many times before, including,
>among other things, a direct comparison between Sarin as a
>representative nerve gas and HCN in the Zyklon B form as well
>as a list of most of the chemical agents available at the
>time and why HCN would still be a good choice.

>However Matt Giwer, in a fit of Raven’s Myopia ™ has seen
>fit to not have seen these and when he does, responds to only
>a single point with a non-sequitor.

You are still addressing your own straw man that has nothing to do with
what I posted.

Continue and you might appear self-aware some day.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:31 PDT 1996
Article: 49185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rampant Irony Deficiency Alert
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:13:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4qlkul$[email protected]> <4qmt2k[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:15:08 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 06:58:59 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <4q[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Nice try, fatbroad.

>Mr. Giwer continues to show respect for those with differing opinions.
>
>Sara

What is your problem, Schwartze?

Are you as fat as she is?

Whatever you would like.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:32 PDT 1996
Article: 49188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Giwer defends himself with lies
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4ra[email protected]> <4rj[email protected]> <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49188 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:152 alt.usenet.kooks:26688

On 7 Jul 1996 06:24:16 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>> Is this the way you continue after a response after my description of
>>>>how to stop it all?
>>
>>> If you want people to stop referring to you as a lying troll, stop
>>>lying and stop trolling. That is _my_ description of how to stop it all.
>>>It is that simple.
>>
>>> Especially since you are not even competent at trolling. Words have
>>>meanings, and you screwed up big time on your wording on the thing about
>>>Rudenko and the two trials of Hoess. And you misread and lied about my
>>>statements. Maybe you need to go back and reread Korzybski – not that I
>>>seriously think it will help.
>>
>> Care do name his book that I am referring to?

> If you cannot remember the name of the book, which was given here
>within the past few weeks, it is only more evidence that your mind is not
>capable of dealing with the material presented here.

The title was given only by me. It is doubtful any of you folks even
heard of the man before I mentioned him. And I haven’t seen a one of
you post a word indicating you understand its relevence.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 12:46:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31d921ee.5817[email protected]> <31de6f60.5214[email protected]> <31de7928.302592[email protected]> <31dec774.160094[email protected]> <31dfc172.15037[email protected]> <31dfc46[email protected]> <4rp9oq$1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:06 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:27:08 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree, can’t keep his trap shut about lil tommy numbnuts:
>What is the Moron up to now? Is he doing Gywer’s thing? Spamming all
>over the internet? Is this his way of discussing the Holocaust? Must
>be, he hasn’t been able to come up with anything except shoes made in
>China by Jooos for The Holocaust Museums.
>This takes real Moron, brain-power. Yuk-Yuk-cackle! 🙂
>your pal,
>Chuck
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 17:13:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:02:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rknub$m[email protected]> <4rlmc8[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:03:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:55:49 EDT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (DvdThomas)
>said:

>>
>>Rich Graves continues his one-note song of lying:

>>>Oh, as soon as they get media attention, they’ll be back. Only problem
>>is,
>>>it’s all a lie. The valleynet.net/valleynet.com trademark dispute had
>>>nothing to do with the content of the CODOH site.

>>The trademark dispute led to a name change that went into effect on July
>>1st, and was advertised at the top of CODOH’s home page. That is one
>>issue.

>>The CODOH web site was unplugged by the server at about midnight on July
>>3rd, for reasons that have not been provided. That is the second issue.

>Bullshit. It was unplugged because Smith, like the craven little liar he
>is, failed to live up to the terms of his agreement. And it wasn’t done
>without warning. And it had nothing to do with censorship. And you know
>that Mr. Thomas.

McFly, as with all holohuggers, lies, imagines, creates, any and every
reality he can to support not only this incredible and unfounded story
but also all the stories of his favorite holocaust.

And to think this man claims a half century of life on this planet.

It is people like this who vote Democrate.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 17:13:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49285 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!cdc2.cdc.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What are your views of Jews?
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rf1n[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:32 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 13:15:50 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz)
wrote:

>Alexander Baron ([email protected]) wrote:

>: This is typical Exterminationist sophistry; most people (including
>: Revisionists) don’t hate “the Jews” but they are utterly sick to death of
>: their whining and wailing.

>Are most people sick of the wailing of all Jews, some Jews, most Jews, or
>just the Organised [tm] ones? Is there a special Organised Jewry whining
>and wailing squadron?

Try www.wiesenthal.com for openers. It appears to be organized. Then
there is the USHMM which also appears organized. Then the ADL, JDL, you
get the idea.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 49303 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:05:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rknub$m[email protected]> <4rlmc8$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:06:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 11:22:06 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> Bullshit. It was unplugged because Smith, like the craven little liar
>> he is, failed to live up to the terms of his agreement. And it wasn’t
>> done without warning. And it had nothing to do with censorship. And
>> you know that Mr. Thomas.

>Gord, do you know this?

>If so, you know more than anyone else on this newsgroup seems to know,
>and I’d like to know where your information is from.

>If not — you’re trolling, and I don’t understand why.

Because he is a holohugger and all holohugger posts are trolls.

Is that so hard to understand?

The holohugger crap like “buna soup” inspires one to laugh at all jokes
about institutional food that are elevated from jokes to true faith.

He is someone you should condemn as a troll … but you never will save
for once or twice just to show you are objective.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 49307 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 960708: Bombardment
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:22:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:23:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1639 alt.revisionism:49307

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:40:23 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>I love the Zgrams that concern the net, because Ms. Rimland always
>manages to demonstrate her ignorance about the very medium she works in,
>to the amusement of all.

>[email protected] (E. Zundel Repost) wrote:

>> – and knowing that, in all likelihood, every word we write
>> gets stashed away somewhere in good old KGB style to be used in attempts
>> to hurt us later.

>Indeed — the good old KGB-style DejaNews can call up dozens of your
>Zuendelgrams to anyone who simply types in “E Zundel Repost” into the
>query box on their home page: http://www.dejanews.com/

>And in America! A supposedly free country! Who would have thought!

>> Additionally, last night the Zundelsite received some rather unpleasant
>> electronic bombardment. Somebody put us on some 70+ automatic listserves

>It’s pretty annoying, isn’t it, Ms. Rimland? Nizkor knows — we got hit
>by the same attack over six months ago, except we got 200 listservs
>instead of just 70:

It sounds like you are claiming responsibility for the retaliation.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 49318 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:21:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:23:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:07:29 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>The Gywer turkey is spreading his nonsense about breakfast again. It’s
>spamming which isn’t ethical, but then it’s Gywer
>Chuck

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:55 PDT 1996
Article: 49319 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:09:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4r[email protected]> <4r[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:11:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:06:37, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>Different strokes for different folks. I don’t have any problem with a
>specific ISP deciding they don’t care to be associated with the likes of
>Bradley Smith, as I’m sure he’ll be able to find one who will. As long as he
>can — and from the number of bigoted websites out there, it’s clear that
>there are many, many ISPs who are not so fastidious — he’s not censored, but
>merely inconvenienced. Perhaps the folks who provide serviced for Stormfront,
>or Ronald Schoedel’s (former?) Christian Identity Online can serve his needs.

>The convenience of Bradley Smith and the whole CODOH gang isn’t very high on
>my list of important things in life.

Wherever the hell you come from, hopefully not the USA, your interest in
freedom of speech is not welcome in the USA. Go somewhere else.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49320 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Giwer defends himself with lies
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:15:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4ra[email protected]> <4rj[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:16:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49320 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:156 alt.usenet.kooks:26727

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 20:22:22 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> I have been working from the materials on Nizkor and have posted them
>>hear as part of my posts on the subject. If you disagree with those on
>>Nizkor you should post the layouts you do agree with, with your posts.

>How about working on some real historical sources and presenting any support
>for the following idiotic claim:

It is good to see someone on the holohugger side trashing Nizkor and the
Gang of Six for a change.

I do agree with you, they are a worthless source.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49322 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What end serve Mr. Giwer’s spams?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:24:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:25:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 19:30:32 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Nele Abels wrote:
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> > Anyone want to explain this one?
>>
>> No, no. How about explaining this:
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> […]
>> >>Race neutral? I’m sure this will be read with great astonishment by those
>> >>who are actually self-described Nazis, as well as anyone else who knows
>> >>anything about National Socialism and its history.
>>
>> Your silence is telling, Mr. Giwertroll. Come on, were is your evidence? I will consider
>> any silence as your admitting that you have been babbling on things you don’t know
>> anything about and will react accordingly.

>I believe a great deal of things are being admitted right now…

>Looks like Matt decamped. Pity. I was ready to reel him in yet again.

Your mother hated Jews and your father killed them with his one hands.

So what more do you want?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49360 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.randomc.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUL 3-4: 11.1% / 20%
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:16:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:17:56 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:157 alt.revisionism:49360

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 11:47:12 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> Articles from Matt Giwer: 49 (11.1%)

>Well, it looks like the Giwer is getting back to tolerable levels:
>twenty-five a day, or so.

>Is it time to declare the crisis over and try to get on with the
>discussions on this group as normal?

I apologize for my inadequacy.

The holohugging spamming has not abated.

I shall have to work harder.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:53:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rc02l$[email protected]> <4rk[email protected]> <4ro3uv[email protected]> <4rs7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:54:27 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 13:12:08 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 7 Jul 1996 06:36:15 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[email protected] writes:
>>>>
>>>>># Anyone want to explain this one?
>>>>
>>>>>[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]
>>>>
>>>>>Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden’s bombing?
>>>>>”Puddles of melted human flesh”? People who turned into an
>>>>>”undulating layer of fine gray ashes” although the fire
>>>>>didn’t even touch them? People “glowing red and orange”
>>>>>(also, although the fire didn’t even touch them)?
>>>>
>>>> Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden but no PHYSICAL
>>>>evidence of any form of mass extermination at Belsen.
>>
>>> Gosh, there is physical evidence of a burned Chicago. Guess it was
>>>firebombed.
>>
>> I have been over this territory before. You have not been paying
>>attention. There are records of the mission planning, the mission
>>briefings,

> Writing down testimony does not make it a document, remember? That
>was your response about the letter to Rauff.

> Perhaps you would like to quote from them where they say that the city
>would be firebombed, not just bombed? Got a reference? I thought not.

Sorry about that but it was announced in all the newspapers at the time
that the intention was to cause a firestorm and the announcement was
that it was successful. Made all the headlines. What have you missed?

> But even then, we would have to ask if this could not have been just a
>morbid sense of humor? Got a chain of custody for those mission records?

Yes.

>It is only one bombing mission out of many. It is an anomaly just as you
>say the Vergasungskeller memo was an anomaly. Are we not required to look
>for alternative explanations of anomalies like this? Have you done so?

You would attempt to compare literally thousands of mission records and
many press releases to one anomaly. You are playing a fools game.

>number reels of bomb site films associated with the mission,
>>before and after reconnaisance pictures with associated reel numbers
>>related to the mission. There are inventory records of the bombs
>>assigned to the mission.
>>
>> All of it points to the smoking gun, physical evidence of aerial
>>bombardment.
>>
>> Now where were you when I recited the above last time? Bad news feed?

> Whee, there was aerial bombardment of many cities. If mission records
>of bombings are sufficient evidence of firebombing, then every city in
>Europe had a Dresden-style barbecue, obviously.

> Mrs. O’Schmidt’s cow is looking guiltier all the time.

You are playing a fool’s game which you should not have started.

You have cider in your eye.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49367 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Christians ‘take it like a man’
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:35:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31d9d63d.93[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:36:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 96 12:36:13 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> But in comparison you will not the difference between my articles on the
>>homosexual encounter of Jesus and the multiple idols of the Israelites
>>you will see the same thing. The former gets zero response. The latter
>>garners all kinds of accusations.

>Bah, beides alte Hüte…but know that you talk about “zero response”:

>>: [email protected] wrote:
>>:
>>: > As to what national socialism is, I have posted remarks directly from
>>: > Hitler on that subject. It is a practical form of Marxism divorced from
>>: > democracy and direct government ownership as it must be in order to
>>: > work. It is race neutral.

>I’ve been waiting for days now. When will Mr. Giwer cough up some evidence for this
>ridiculous and ignorant claim. Or has he _again_ been babbling about things he doesn’t
>know anything about?

You are a self proclaimed German.

You and / or your parents were responsible for murdering Jews.

Why do you not admit your guilt and get it over with?

Perhaps you could kill yourself in atonement for the evils of your
parents. It would be the least you could do.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49375 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:59:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:01:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 96 17:04:11 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> You are trying a fool’s game and not answering the mail.

>Funny that you mention it. Would you mind stopping your fool’s game and answer this
>teeny-weeny question:

>Where in national socialist writings did you find the basis for your claim that the Nazis
>were not racist?

As a German whose parents wanted to murder all Jews you have little room
to ask such questions.

Your parents were murders as were your grandparents and you have no room
to talk until you apologize for their murders before this group and to
tell us all that you have accused them of being murderers to their
faces.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:31 PDT 1996
Article: 49376 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:25:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31d7d8ff.17036[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 2:26:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:34:10 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>What
>> the hell, even if they did, the Jews don’t want 250,000 individual acts
>> of life saving heroism even remembered. So much for your family of
>> fools.

>So a major movie producer makes Schindler’s List? Hint – he wasn’t
>Buddhist.

No, he is a Jew. What is your point? And he need an Academy Award
where the politics of Hollywood will not give an AW to who simplly
pander to us rabble and make the most successful movies in history.

Beyond that, what is your question?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:32 PDT 1996
Article: 49377 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rc02l[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 11:13:26 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:15:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># I have pointed to the available physical evidence that
># does not need one word of testimony to support the event.

>Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
>But you must know that.

You know it does not.

There is not one picture of anyone on the roof of any building much less
pouring in anything. But you know that.

There is not one picture of any result from any “gas chamber” when
opened but you know that.

There is sworn testimony of flesh and clothing forming gelatinous masses
after exposure to HCN but you know that.

Your fucking mass gassing is a sham and you DO know that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:33 PDT 1996
Article: 49381 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:08:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4c[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rm3i1[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 4:10:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 23:16:57 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Ken McVay believes he can buy his way into the tribe and has yet
> to realize there is no way to do so.

>Mr. Giwer believes he can provoke Mr. McVay with his vile insults and
>has yet to realize there is no way to do so.

McVay is a self aggrandizing fool who permits hired underlings to speak
for him while he refuses to speak for himself.

I can not change that. You can not change that.

Only he can change that.

Get used to it.

He is a hind tit on the belly of the internet. His flunkies defend him
while he pretends to hide behind a killfile.

Get used to the asshole you are defending some day.

He is an asshole and he has to “co” flunkies who pretend to speak out of
his ass.

Get over it.

And get used to it.

He is not a clone, he is a clown.

He gets all the respect a clown is due.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:34 PDT 1996
Article: 49383 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:42:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 11:44:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 02:12:32 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> Nice try but It is quite clear that I am talking about your mass
>> extermination by gassing facilities within the camps.

> Unfortunately that is exactly what the evidence you demand cannot
>demonstrate. It simply has little relevance to what you are disputing.

> –YFE

This is amazing.

An attorney admitting that the fundamental standards of evidence
required in a capital crime can not be produced because it never
existed.

It is amazing because he is a holohugger and knows that his beliefs do
not match the standards of his profession.

This is truly amazing.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:34 PDT 1996
Article: 49385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:21:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4rm7pm$ot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 2:23:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:33:12 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> You are pretending to what you do not know and are becoming a holohugger
>> with each succeeding post.

>Please try to debate, Matt. Remember – if you succeed in getting me mad,
>all you’ll accomplish is getting me mad – and losing the war. Believe
>it! When I get mad, I *REALLY* go after somebody. I just got annoyed at
>Dahlman and see what I did.

Please assume that I have gotten you really mad and

1) pulicize what you are going to do

and

2) do it.

and as a minor third

Please tell me why I should give a damn.

And I know how to finger NIC.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:35 PDT 1996
Article: 49390 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Msgic ERCO
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:15:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 5:16:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Is it not good?

The holohuggers can invoke the term ERCO and claim that it was both a
dessicant and blue at the same time?

And in all of that, the holohuggers can NOT produce one document as to
what ERCO is or what its color might be.

Sounds very much like ERCO is Erkel some inane network sitcom.

The holohuggers are all idiots.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49392 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:03:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <01bb63ae[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 5:05:15 AM CDT 1996
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:60356 alt.conspiracy:65837 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25008 alt.politics.white-power:35691 alt.radio.talk:11978 alt.revisionism:49392 alt.skinheads:31352

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:09:17 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> >If the jews had not been born, the world would not be as advanced as it is
>> >today. I believe there should be a single day every year in which jews
>> >should be honored. I honor jews every day, period. If all races were this
>> >productive and this responsible for their actions and for the rights of
>> >others, we would not have racial hatred, high crime, or irresponsibility
>> >by members of certain groups. Racial conflict would be at a new all time
>> >low. There would be no reason to hate, only to love.
>>
>> From the people who gave genocide to the world.

>Could you prove that, please?

>Thank you.

>Walt.

Read your fucking bible, idiot.

It is all recorded there.

What in the hell are you doing here without the slightest grouding in
the subject under discussion?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49395 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:53:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31D[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4rs7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 1:54:51 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 23:34:51 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:14:30 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>>> >> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>>> >> likely agent.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>>> >> collapsed.
>>>>
>>>> >Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>>>> >having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>>>> >developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>>>> >to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>>>> >GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>>>> >of the V series nerve gasses.
>>>>
>>>> >They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>>>> >neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>>>> >down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>>>> >neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>>>> >can block.
>>>>
>>>> You fail to make any points here.
>>
>>>I am providing background information so that the reader may render
>>>a somewhat informed judgement on the topic. I’m well aware that putting
>>>things in context and providing information is a foreign concept to
>>>you, but I have no hope of ever making you acknowledge anything.
>>
>>
>>>> >Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>>>> >body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>>>> >recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>>>> >to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>>>> >significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>>>> >thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).
>>>>
>>>> >Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).
>>>>
>>>> >Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:
>>>>
>>>> > Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)
>>>>
>>>> > Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
>>>> > only fatal after inhalation)
>>>>
>>>> >Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:
>>>>
>>>> > Full protective gear required by operators of chamber
>>>>
>>>> > -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves
>>>>
>>>> Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
>>>> reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
>>>> to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.
>>>>
>>>> I can not change that.
>>
>>>Nor can I change the fact that you so blatently omitted the subsequent reasons
>>>I posted as to why Zyklon B would be a technically and operationally better
>>>agent than a nerve agent such as Sarin. Why don’t you puzzle those reasons
>>>out for a while and then get back to me when you actually have something
>>>interesting to say other than insipid comments and non-sequitors?
>>
>> I made one point, that the time frame for HCN deaths were on the same
>>order as nerve gas. You went on to repeat a canned answer to something
>>I did not address. At no time did I state that nerve gas would have
>>been a better choice.
>>
>> So how much did you want left in? The point is very simple. The time
>>frame for death from breathing cyanide and from nerve gas (and from
>>carbon monoxide for that matter) are all reported to be approximately
>>the same by the eyewitnesses.
>>
>> The point I was making, which has NOTHING whatever to do with “why
>>didn’t they use nerve gas?,” is that finding HCN in the same time frame
>>as nerve gas was my first serious indication that there was something
>>wrong with the stories based upon my assumption that that it had been
>>nerve gas.
>>
>> To go further, it was later finding CO deaths on the same order as HCN
>>and nerve gas that indicated there was something seriously wrong with
>>the stories.
>>
>> Now if you would like to address the point I am making, please do so.

> The only thing I see wrong here is with your ability to read,
>understand, and evaluate what you read. Zyklon will vary depending on
>room size, concentration, and temperature. Witnesses will vary in their
>estimates of times. Only a very stupid person would not take into
>consideration these very simple points. You are not taking these very
>simple points into consideration. The conclusion is left as exercise to
>the reader.

Sorry but the variations are from instantanious to two days with a
second application and you know that. You have read all the crap about
the kill times here.

You also know that the time to death in the majority of the “eyewitness”
testimonies vary from 10 to 20 minutes for both HCN and CO period, no
questions asked.

That makes them both equally lethal and you know that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49400 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:28:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 2:30:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 02:31:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> As there is no recorded Israelite migration into the areas that were
>> beyond the influence of the Roman Empire where the Eastern European Jews
>> appear to have come from, it is unclear what objection you might have.

> That is incorrect. In fact, one of the problems of Roman politics in the
>east was the influence of Jews in the Parthian Empire.

Self-aggrandizement was the worst problem the Romans faced.

Babylon had stomped them into the earth. The Alexander came along and
did it again.

And then Rome came along and did it again and again and again.

Israel has never been more than a genocidal territory in the middle east
and of no concern for any rational person.

Sorry about that but I read your “bible” which alternately exists and
does not exist.

Jews have the earliest recorded tradition of genocide.

Fuck you too and the horse you rode in one.

I am sick of the whining.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49402 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:58:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31d921ee.581732[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 1:59:48 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:16:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
># under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out
># of the chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz,

>Mike Stein had a long talk with a crematory operator. The guy
>said that this is a known phenomena, which even has a name
>(“candle”).