Giwer Matt, 3-1996 – p2

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48685 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:48:10 GMT
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[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) and Moran wrote:

>>> As far as Treblinka is concerned, there is nothing to the story
>>>than “eyewitness testimony”. No photographs or anything. The Treblinka
>>>chapter of the Holocaust story has it that the 40 acre camp was built
>>>one year where the Germans exterminated up to 2,000,000 the next year
>>>demolished by the Germans the next year, and was nothing more than a
>>>tree farm the next year.

>No photographs ? Shit. I have some photos from the Kurt Frantz Album,
>an excavator at work, aso. It is worth to trash ? Frantz was sentenced
>to life emprisonment (Dusseldorf) in 64.

Sorry about that. It does not satisfy the criteria.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48687 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CODOH shut down
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:05:46 GMT
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No organization can both claim to desire common carrier status as an ISP
and censor what they carry.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48692 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:16:33 GMT
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Equinox wrote:

>X-Mozilla-Status: 0801
>X-Mozilla-News-Host: news
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 02:03:56 -0700
>From: Equinox
>Organization: @Home
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>CC: [email protected]
>Subject: NO nerve gas?
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Hi There,
>When I was in the Army I remember them teaching us about Nerve Gas and
>one Sargeant told me that our VX was based on Nazi nerve gases
>developed from insecticides before WWII. I also remember reading about
>chemical warfare in the library. Anyway,
>the book mentioned that Hitler did NOT use the Reich’s stores of
>Nerve Gas on advancing Communist and Allied soldiers (nor on England
>with the V2) because he feared for the German people and what the
>Allies would do in retaliation. As a side note, maybe this was the
>’secret weapon’ that Geobbles (?) kept yelling about near the end.
>My question is this; how can anyone doubt the extensive stocks of
>nerve gas in the Nazi inventory? I know that the U.S. Army took alot
>of advanced (for the time) technology out of Germany after they
>conquered the Nazis, in fact our entire space program was based on
>their Rocket technology and personnel. It makes sense that the U.S.
>also got a hold of this nerve gas and in the early days of the Cold
>War developed it further to counter a perceived Communist threat of
>the same. There seems to be just too much evidence that the Nazi’s
>developed or took over development of chemicals that can kill with
>one drop. How can this be explained away?

It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.

But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
likely agent.

When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
collapsed.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 12:40:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48695 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,can.politics,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Horrible Racist Comic At WWW.RESIST.COM
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[email protected] (Cthulhu) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Daniel Clinton) wrote:

>>See, the US has this thing called the First Amendment. It says that
>>anybody who has a viewpoint is entitled to express it any damn way
>>they choose.

>The First Amendment prohibited destructive lying from its very beginning. That
>makes any racist propaganda calling for violence illegal.

The 1st Amendment prohibits no such thing.

>Libel and slander are in the criminal code. You could take racists to court
>for slandering you.

Unlike England and other backward countries, the truth is an absolute
defense in the US.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 20:52:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48765 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:15:43 GMT
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On 06 Jul 96 15:07:12, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[To Alec Grynspan] [Wed 03 Jul 96 15:31][Sat 06 Jul 96 05:36][0]*>

> >> That a witness saw live people carted in, saw dead bodies come
> >> out and didn’t see the cause of death? He speculates on the
> >> cause, convinces himself and that is written down in a book.

> mnc> What words in that statement indicates speculation to you?

>Oh good grief! Reread and try again.

>> Anyone want to explain this one?
>>
>> ” It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
>> built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
>> people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
>> then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
>> way; there they were killed. ”

There it is again. What words indicate speculation to you? Those are
declarative sentences.

> mnc> What kind of “mass extermination” was supposed to have been
> mnc> going on at Belsen in 1942 or ever for that matter?

>Must we repeat everything, Matt? Don’t waste time on
>ground-shifting. Leave that for the deniers.

Sorry but there is no longer a claim of any mass extermination at
Belsen. It is the holohuggers who have shifted on this one.

> >> Gassings were reported and representatives were begging the
> >> American military to bomb the chambers during the war.

> mnc> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines
> mnc> cut so that no more people could be sent there and so the food
> mnc> would be cut off so those already there would starve.

>Utter nonsense. Go read “Abandonment of the Jews” and follow up on
>the references. I’m still BUSY (today is my son’s birthday – the big
>ONE-OH) so you have time.

Sorry about that but that is what I heard the last time this was brought
up.

> >> account that 2 bombs would have put the chambers out of
> >> commission,

> mnc> Four for Birkenau alone according to discussions in this NG
> mnc> but then laser guidance was not available in those days.

>Two of the biggies or half a dozen smaller ones. They flew right
>over the chambers on the way to making craters of some plants
>nearby. The films show an illusion of the bomb falling on the
>chambers but that was due to the fact that the bomb was moving
>forward at the same speed as the bomber. They were that close!

Alec, you have a lot to learn about iron bombs and their rather minimal
accuracy. What you suggest is clearly impossible. I have no idea who
told you otherwise. I would suggest you look into the reason for the
development of smart bombs in the first place.

> >> was a strategically poor move and there are bombsight photos of
> >> the planes passing over the gas chambers on their way to other
> >> targets.

> mnc> You are the only person who has ever made such a claim. The
> mnc> ones that Nizkor carries of Birkenau show no such activity when
> mnc> such activity should have been at its peak — depending upon

>Matt, the films were actually shown on TV in prime time! I’ve seen
>them there several times, as well as elsewhere. Pay attention!

Which prime time news could that have been? From 10,000 feet or so you
are actually seeing people and activity? It is a shame Nizkor has not
come across those pictures. They have none of them.

> >> How can I argue with you? It would be like fighting an unarmed
> >> man!

> >> Get yourself together, Matt! I don’t want to shoot fish in a
> >> barrel!

> mnc> Again you make claims but they are patently contrary to what
> mnc> is available to everyone here, and then you declare victory.

>No pouting! Act like an adult. Look it up! You have the clues.

I have looked into it. Your claims are rather unique in the matter. No
one else here has made them either. I find this quite surprising.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 6 22:37:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48775 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:30:43 GMT
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On Thu, 04 Jul 1996 09:25:12 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

>Non-sequitur, Matt. please do try to stay with the argument this time. I
>really don’t want to wte time on zig-zags.

I am telling you what has been posted here. The source was supposed to
be The Abandonment of the Jews. According to the previous posts the
targets they wanted to be hit were the rail lines.

>> Four for Birkenau alone according to discussions in this NG but then
>> laser guidance was not available in those days.

>More non-sequiturs. Wake up, Matt! You can do better.

The claim here is that there were four gas chambers at Birkenau. There
have been long discussions even as to the numbering of them and their
design features. You are the first person to claim there were only two.
The rest agree there were four. And, by your assumption, all the smart
bomb technology was a tax payer rip off as dumb iron bombs could do the
same thing.

>> the American military said it
>> >was a strategically poor move and there are bombsight photos of the
>> >planes passing over the gas chambers on their way to other targets.
>>
>> You are the only person who has ever made such a claim. The ones that
>> Nizkor carries of Birkenau show no such activity when such activity
>> should have been at its peak — depending upon which “pharmacist” you
>> choose to believe.

>I’m not talking about Nizkor, Matt. If you don’t do any research on a
>subject, other than browse web pages, how can we possibly debate or
>discuss? Please do some intensive upgrading at your library.

Actually you are making claims contrary to those of the
exterminationists here. Sorry about that. Perhaps you should have
researched the position of those you appear to be supporting before you
started supporting them.

Talking about shifting grounds, I have often suggested they get together
and come up with a single, consistent story for me to address. You are
now doing that to me in that you have a story that is different from
what anything the rest of them have been saying. So may I make the same
suggestion to you, that you get together with them and settle upon a
single story.

>> >Really, Matt, none of this is news! We’ve already been over that in
>> >other places and even here!
>>
>> >Your memory is patently bad, but this is getting ridiculous. It goes
>> >beyond memory!
>>
>> >How can I argue with you? It would be like fighting an unarmed man!
>>
>> >Get yourself together, Matt! I don’t want to shoot fish in a barrel!
>>
>> Again you make claims but they are patently contrary to what is
>> available to everyone here, and then you declare victory.

>(*SIGH*) They argue the same subset of data repeatedly, because that is
>what their opponents argue. Do you just want to be a more voluble Huber,
>or do you want to do some research!

>I could declare victory based on your patently poor grasp of the topic
>but you can use the time to get the info together for a better
>challenge.

>You are just being repetitive – a sign of a lack of information, Matt.

You also disagree with the documents on Nizkor.

You are simply reciting another version of the stories that have been
told here over and over. But it is a markedly different version.

>I’m still too busy to focus more than a minute fraction of my time on
>you. Surely you can take advantage of that to get rebuttal material
>together.

>Be the first revisionist with *NEW* material, Matt! Don’t just rehash
>what others have done. For pete’s sake! My mother-in-law can parrot
>reams of data but can’t come up with an independent conclusion because
>she has the intelligence of a brick!

>Now hi thyself to a library and return to argue with knowledge and
>reason!

I can’t say you are the first holohugger with new material but you
present so much of it at once. For example only two gas chambers at
Birkenau. And I would be interested in you pointing out what I have
said that is a simple rehash. It does not appear you have read enough
of what has been posted in this conference to know what anyone on any
side has said.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:45 PDT 1996
Article: 48784 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Well designed mass gassing chambers
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:44 GMT
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On 6 Jul 1996 12:32:13 -0700, [email protected] (Richard
James Green) wrote:

>Mr. Ehrlich,

>Your defense of Matt Giwer is simply appalling. I find it hard to
>believe that any reasonable person of goodwill could make the statements
>that you’ve made about Matt Giwer. Luckily, your statements about Matt
>Giwer are on file at Nizkor.

What is “lucky” about that? Please explain.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:46 PDT 1996
Article: 48785 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:22:23 GMT
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On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.002
>Last-modified: 1993/10/24
>See Also: holocaust diet.01

> I.G. Auschwitz: I.G. Farben’s Buna (synthetic rubber) division, built
> near the site of the Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II concentration
> camps. (Farben eventually built their own corporate concentration
> camp at the site, to eliminate the need to march prisoners several
> miles to and from the Buna plant every day, as had been the practice.
> It was known as Monowitz, and had a sign over the gate which read
> “Arbeit Macht Frei.”)

>[Editor’s note: I understand that the “Arbeit Macht Frei” sign can be seen
>today over the gate at Auschwitz I – this raises the question of whether or
>not there were more than one, or if the one the author mentions was moved to
>Auschwitz I at a later date, or if the author was simply incorrect. knm]

> “Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz. The diet fed to I.G.
> Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous ‘Buna Soup’ – a
> nutritional aid not available to other prisoners – resulted in an
> average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
> nine pounds a week. At the end of a month, the change in the
> prisoner’s appearance was marked; at the end of two months, the
> inmates were not recognizable except as caricatures formed of skin,
> bones, and practically no flesh; after three months, they were either
> dead or so unfit for work that they were marked for release to the
> gas chambers at Birkenau. Two physicians who studied the effect of
> the I.G. diet on the inmates noticed that ‘the normally nourished
> prisoner at Buna could make up the deficiency by his own body for a
> period of three months….The prisoners were condemned to burn up
> their own body weight while working and, providing no infections
> occurred, finally died of exhaustion.'” others – typical SS Auschwitz punishment reports> (Borkin, 125)

> Work Cited

> Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York:
> The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.

It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.

It is like some innocent child hearing his Marine father using a
nickname for some dish from the slop chute at Quantico and concocting a
horror story around it. “They make my Daddy eat plastic pizza and then
he got sick and died.”

But then there were secret synthetic foods made by the plant that did
nothing more than simply not feeding people would do.

Even more innocently naive the people who believe such stories with such
great fervor. Yad Vashem needs to grow up and smell the Sugar Puffs.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:46 PDT 1996
Article: 48797 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They probably thought they were being inoculated’
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:49 GMT
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:00:57 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
>>about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
>>were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).
>>
>>All the following testimonies are excerpted from “Auschwitz: the
>>Proceedings Against Mulka and Others” by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
>>who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
>>participated in the gassing operations).
>>
>>Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by
>>the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
>>1945 (p. 153-4):
>>———————————————————————-
>>The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with
>>injections were begun in 1942.
>>
>>”First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
>>know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
>>looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
>>phenolic acid”.
> These Germans always seem to have to experiment with the most
>basic of procedures and substances, like when they were trying to
>figure out how much Zyklon B would have to used.

And all the while never thinking of a simple air bubble to cause an
embolism and heart failure, death in five minutes. Stupid Germans.

Nah, rather, “go out and get me some hydrogen gas. Let’s try that
first.”

“So what did he come back with? A 5 kilo cylinder of the stuff. Blew
the plunger out of five hypos before I got the trick of filling it
right.”

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:47 PDT 1996
Article: 48798 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Collective Guilt
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:52 GMT
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 05:38:05 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his
>> good treatment of civilians in return for their pledge of peacefulness.
>> His troops were being attacked whenever they were found alone or in
>> small groups. He also found they were being shot in the stomach when
>> possible to cause a lingering and painful death.
>>
>> It was with that experience that he decided on a policy of
>bringing the
>> actual horrors of war to civilians. Of course since the North wrote
>> most of the history of the war, his policy was told in a better light.

>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.)

When all else fails …

It just so happens that I’m reading
>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them cone to the
>same conclusion that you do.
>
>Grant’s decision to “wage war upon the population” was made long before
>the seige at Vicksburg.
>
>He who asserts must prove, Mr. Giwer. Where did the above information come from?

The idea of “waging war on the population” came from you. What I am
talking about came from his own writings, mainly in letters. They are
as I have recounted. Get better books and ignore the coincidence.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:48 PDT 1996
Article: 48799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yad Vashem Studies XVI: Operation Reinhard (8/11)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 180
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: orgs/israeli/yad-vashem/yvs16.02
>Last-modified: 1993/03/29
>XRef: yad_vashem index

> YAD VASHEM STUDIES
> XVI
> Edited by Aharon Weiss

> YAD VASHEM
> MARTYR’S AND HEROES’ REMEMBRANCE AUTHORITY
> JERUSALEM 1984

> “Operation Reinhard”:
> Extermination Camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka

> Yitzhak Arad

> Treblinka — from July 23 until August 28, 1942

Spam at its most creatively gruesome.

> The procedure adopted upon the arrival of the trains was the same as
> that in Sobibor: two German railroad workers, classified as being
> reliable, took over the transport from the Treblinka station to the
> extermination camp, a distance of 4 km. The Pole Franciszek Zabecki
> described the arrival of the deportation train from the Warsaw
> ghetto:

> A small locomotive stood ready in the railroad station to
> transport the first section of freight cars into the carnp.
> Everything had been planned and prepared in advance. The train
> consisted of 60 closed freight cars fully loaded with people:

One wonders at the size of a large locomotive.

> young ones, old ones, men and women, children and babies. The car
> doors were locked from the outside and the air holes covered with
> barbed wire. On the running boards on both sidej and on the roof
> about a dozen SS-soldiers stood or lay with machine guns at the
> ready.

Running boards on freight cars. People moving with cars that had been
unguarded for hundreds of miles. Fascinating.

It was hot and most of the people in the freight cars were
> deadly exhausted… As the train came nearer it seemed as if an
> evil spirit had taken hold of the waiting SS-men.

Nice touch.

They drew their
> pistols, returned them to their holsters, pulled them out agian,
> as if they wanted to shoot and kill. They approached the freight
> cars and tried to reduce the noise and the weeping; but then they
> screamed at the Jews and cursed them, all the while urging the
> railroad workers to hurry: “Quick, faster!” After that they
> returned to the camp in order to receive the deportees.
> (Franciszek Zabecki, ‘Wspomnienia dawne i nowe’, Warsaw, 1977 pp.
> 39 f)

> As the train approached the extermination camp, the engine blew a
> prolonged whistle which was the signal for the Ukrainians to man
> their position in the reception sector and on the roofs of the
> buildings. One group of SS-men and Ukrainians took up positions on
> the station platform. As soon as the train was moving along the
> tracks inside the camp, the gates behind it were closed. The
> deportees were taken out of the freight cars and conducted through a
> gate to a fenced-in square inside the camp. At the gate they were
> separated: men to the right, women and children to the left. A large
> placard announced in Polish and German:

> Attention Warsaw Jews! You are in a transit camp from which the
> transport will continue to labor camps. To prevent epidemics,
> clothing as well as pieces of baggage are to be handed over for
> disinfection. Gold, money, foreign currency, and jewellery are to
> be deposited at the “Cash Office” against a receipt. They will be
> returned later on presentation of the receipt. For physical
> cleanliness, all arrivals must have a bath before travelling on.
> (Verdict of LG Dusseldorf AZ 81 Ks 2/64, p. 81.)

> The undressing procedure and the manner in which the victims were led
> to the gas chambers were almost identical to those described for the
> Sobibor camp.

> During this first phase, from the beginning to the middle of August,
> 5,000 – 7,000 Jews arrived every day in Treblinka. Then the pace of
> the transports increased; there were days on which 10,000 – 12,000
> deportees reached the camp, together with thousands who were already
> dead and others who were utterly exhausted.

Again these amazing numbers and again all of these bodies being burned
in open pits and again no mention of the smell as it is not appropriate
to this story.

> Abraham Goldfarb, who arrived there on August 25, described the
> scene:

> When we arrived in Treblinka and the Germans opened the
> freight cars we beheld a horrible sight. The car was full of
> corpses. The bodies were partly decomposed by chlorine. The
> stench in the cars made those still alive choke. The Germans
> ordered everyone to get out; those still able to do so were half
> dead. Waiting SS and Ukrainians beat us and shot at us…

Looks like someone smuggled a huge cylinder of chlorine on board with
him in order to commit a grotesque form of mass suicide. But it beats
the story of the cars that were filled with lime to kill and decompose
the bodies before they arrived.

> On the way to the gas chambers Germans with dogs stood along the
> fence on both sides. The dogs had been trained to attack people;
> they bit the men’s genitals and the women’s breasts, ripping off
> pieces of flesh. The Germans hit the people with whips and iron
> bars to spur them on so that they pressed forward into the
> “showers” as quickly as possible. The screams of the women could
> be heard far away, even in the other parts of the camp. The
> Germans drove the running victims on with shouts of: “Faster,
> faster, the water will get cold, others still have to go under the
> showers!” To escape from the blows, the victims ran to the gas
> chambers as quickly as they could, the stronger ones pushing the
> weaker aside. At the entrance to the gas chambers stood the two
> Ukrainians, Ivan Demaniuk and Nikolai, one of them armed with an
> iron bar, the other with a sword. They drove the people inside
> with blows… As soon as the gas chambers were full, the
> Ukrainians closed the doors and started the engine. Some 20-25
> minutes later an SS-man or a Ukrainian looked through a window in
> the door. When they had ascertained that everyone had been
> asphyxiated, the Jewish prisoners had to open the doors and remove
> the corpses. Since the chambers were overcrowded and the victims
> held on to one another, they all stood upright and were like one
> single block of flesh. (Yad Vashem Archives 0-3/2140)

It is rather amazing that all of these people’s legs locked frozen at
death. But the SS engine exhaust kills differently from other engine
exhaust. A nice touch also. Worthy of a horror story writer.

> Breakdowns and interruptions occurred in the operation of the gas
> chambers. During the initial phase the personnel did not know how
> long it would take to asphyxiate the victims. On occasion the doors
> were opened too early and the victims were still alive, so that the
> doors had to be closed again.

And stood up again real neat so they would all remain standing.

The engines which produced the gas
> occasionally failed. If such mishaps occurred when the victims were
> already inside the gas chambers, they were left standing there until
> the engines had been repaired. Some 268,000 Jews met their deaths in
> the first extermination wave in Treblinka, which lasted five
> weeks–from July 23 to August 28.

7000 a day. Quite an amazing figure.

> The gas chambers with their technical breakdowns were unable to cope
> with such enormous numbers. Those who could not be pressed inside
> were shot in the reception camp. Many prisoners and additional
> ditches were needed in order to bury all those who had been shot, in
> addition to the thousands who had died during the transports. An
> excavator from the gravel pit in the nearby Treblinka punishment camp
> was used for digging additional mass graves.

No burning pits in this story so we must expect to find hundreds of
thousands of corpses in mass graves some day when someone gets around to
looking for them.

> But this did not solve the problem and at the end of August chaos
> still reigned in Treblinka. Reports of what went on in the camp
> reached headquarters. Globocnik and Wirth arrived, assessed the
> situation, and dismissed Eberl, the camp commandant. Stangl, from
> Sobibor, who was without work because of repairs on the tracks, was
> appointed commandant of Treblinka.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars, The Series [Preface]
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:25:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 12:29:23 AM CDT 1996
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On 6 Jul 1996 13:29:55 GMT, [email protected] (M Huber) wrote:

>Ride with us as we lower ourselves into the slime at the bottom of life
>where the V*rmin wriggle , those who have stolen YOUR names and laid
>claim to the 5,000 year heritage of the brave Semites of the House of
>Judea. They are the GRAVES, the McVEYs and the McFEEs of the world,
>bringing havoc out of order, and ruin out of 10,000 years of White
>Heritage.

>By: Jim Floyd: ([email protected])

>Subject: Sint ut sunt aut non sint.

>JAMES FLOYD on the impossibilities of Anti-Semitism, or ( how can Elie
>Weasel call Jesus his cousin and keep a semi-straight face )

>It is the fervent hope of this humble writer that one of our slime-ball,

>self-appointed, commissars of ‘political correctness’ such as Mo Dees,
>Gut
>Abe Foxman, Congressman Schumer et al. will find this series of articles
>so
>repugnant and dangerous to this cozy ‘chosen’ status crap that they will

>immediately seek recourse in a court of law.

>Equally fervid is the hope that after you read this material NEVER AGAIN

>will you allow a Khazar to denigrate anyone with the vile term
>’Anti-Semite’.

>”The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past,
>begins
>to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated.”
> Arthur Koestler, ‘The Thirteenth Tribe’
> (found dead with his wife – ruled suicide)

If you are into SF there is an old story, On Venus have we got a Rabbi,
(William Tenn?) that recounts this story in a future setting.

It seems they discover this alien race that claims to be Jewish …

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48814 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:02:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On 6 Jul 1996 13:29:26 -0400, [email protected] (SF924) wrote:

>I never have had a problem with Nazis being Nazis and publicly espousing
>their vile hatred. It’s only this revisionist b.s. I find offensive.

As there is no recorded Israelite migration into the areas that were
beyond the influence of the Roman Empire where the Eastern European Jews
appear to have come from, it is unclear what objection you might have.

If there were an answer, it would be easy to produce.

Cite the migration.

There would be more than sufficient documentation of Israelite (Judean?)
settlements as was the custom in those times. There would certainly be
records of continuity on the fringes of the Eastern Roman Empire.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:50 PDT 1996
Article: 48817 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:50:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 6 Jul 1996 09:17:05 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>Daniel Keren wrote:

>>> What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
>>> over again?

>>He wants to be the new Dan Gannon?

>Fat chance! He’s got the whiney part down pretty fine, but he
>hasn’t yet learned to:

>1. Call everyone who disagrees a VILE LITTLE LIAR!
>2. Post the same article, (we recommend a 50K IHR tract), to 80
> newsgroups at the same time,
>3. Irritate ISPs to the point where none of them will provide
> you with an account, then
>4. Claim you have been censored and “banished” from the
> Internet. (Use the Internet to make this claim.)
>5. Provide sexually explicit material on your bbs and
> run it as a commercial operation when you discover it is
> less taxing intellectually than “Holocaust scholarship”
>6. Use at least three pseudonyms at the same time, but
> make each one say VILE LITTLE LIAR at least once a day
>7. Threaten local gay businessmen/women, post their names
> and addresses on the Internet at least twice, and
> suggest that people “call them up and tell them what
> you think of…” them, in the hope they will go out
> of business. Do this in the name of free speech and
> democracy and hope no one will notice the contradiction.
>8. Have your very own “alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum”
> newsgroup created. If others won’t do it for you,
> scream “I am not a NAZI you VILE LITTLE LIAR!” and
> do it yourself.
>9. Explain that Negroes have smaller brains than everyone
> else.
>10. Show photographs of dead bodies hanging from nails,
> claim they are doctored because you can’t see any rope.

>Tommy hasn’t even begun to score points yet on the Gannon
>Scale of InterNet Abuse. Neither has Giwer, although Giwer has
>managed to achieve something Gannon did not.

>The real key to “being Gannon” is to accept the fact that
>”revisionism” is a lost cause, and flog sex instead…. all,
>of course, in the name of free speech.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

Ken McVay believes he can buy his way into the tribe and has yet to
realize there is no way to do so.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 48819 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:08:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 10:38:27 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:

>[Moran’s recycled distortion deleted. It has been corrected and
>placed in context several times in the past.]

>>
>> Actually, it is a childish ploy for evasion. Hilary has never, as
>>far as I know, posted anything of substance. Of course she could come
>>back and post some of her stuff to rebuke this claim. Okay Hillary, go
>>for it.

>Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive
>ploys, Mr. Moran.

Who is this “we” are you are speaking for?

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:52 PDT 1996
Article: 48825 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:48:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:53:55 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>
>”Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations”
> L.A.Times, July 6, 1996

>”Rome –Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the
>anti-Semitic laws of facism–but insists the money must come from the
>country’s own Jewish community.
> Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry’s demand is
>’repugnant’ called on the gavernment this week to stop it.
> The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the
>Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000
>inreparations, ….”

> The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as
>having a beef with the order.

Poetic justice?

These folks keep banging on the Catholic Church and every allied
government in sight for failure instantly stop the holocaust.

But they never notice that those organizations such as the World Jewish
Congress never at any time bought any shortwave air time and broadcast
anything like, “Fight, you are going to be steamed” or “Kill them before
they electrocute you” whatever was popular at the time. The only radio
reports documented of anything even close come out of Switzerland.

Who in fact was most personally derelict when there is supposedly clear,
believable and almost unquestionable that such information was passed by
Jewish leaders to the US and British governments who declined to do
anything.

It appears they threw up their hands and declined to do anything
further. It is like the Pope doing nothing and blaming everyone else
for doing nothing.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:53 PDT 1996
Article: 48828 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nyiszli’s Memoirs of Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 09:58:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 19:30:03 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> In article , [email protected]
>> (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

>[snip]

>> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >(Ehrlich606) wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Memoirs of Dr. Nyiszli *Auschwitz* (Arcade, 1993)
>> >
>> >> THE SHOOTING (Chapter 9, pp. 66-68)
>> >>
>> >> One night Dr. Nyiszli wakes up to hear shooting. He goes into a room
>> >> and finds 70 naked women, not all of them dead, aprawled in a bloody
>> >> mess on the floor. Each of whom has been shot in the back of the head.
>> >> A sonderkommando assures him that every night trucks bring 70 more to
>> >> be murdered the same way.
>> >
>> >Tauber describes something similar when he was working in Krema I.
>> >Some 30 to 40 people were brought into the morgue of Krema I a couple
>> >times a week and shot there. Braod aslo wrote about a mass shooting of
>> >over 200 people that took place at Krema I. Ho”ss wrote that small
>> >transports of Russians were constantly being shot in the gravel pits at
>> >the Monopol factory or in Block 11.
>>
>> There were shootings no doubt. But again I consider the above seriously
>> exaggerated.

>Why? What evidence do you have that would indicate such atrocities were
>”exagerated?” Do please be specific.

>> >> THE MASS BURNING (Chapter 13, pp. 84-89)
>> >>
>> >> 5,000 people are waiting to be burned in open pits. They are led into
>> >> a house in groups of 400, forced to strip while beaten, and then are
>> >> chased along a gauntlet of SS to a pit. The pit is 50 yards long, six
>> >> yards wide, and three yards deep. SS men line the pit. There were two
>> >> such *pyres.*
>> >
>> >Tauber describes something similar (though in less detail) happening
>> >during Akyion Ho”ss. He claimed that there were so many people at times
>> >that the deportees that could not be immediately gassed were shot by the
>> >incineration pits instead. According to Tauber, Hauptscharfu”hrer Otto
>> >Moll (Molle according to Nyizli) threw people in the incineration pits
>> >alive to burn to death.
>>
>> According to USSR-8, the Soviet State Commission on Auschwitz, introduced
>> at the IMT, the pits were of the dimension cited by Nyiszli. The same
>> document specifies that a channel was cut in the bottom of the pit for air
>> supply. [Not for fat fuel] USSR-8 also calculates a death toll at
>> Auschwitz Birkenau in excess of 4 million, clearly calculated on the basis
>> on the assumed incineration capacities of the crematoria. So, that is the
>> source of that particular error. Tauber testified for the Soviet State
>> Commission. His subsequent testimony or testimonies is unknown to me.

>Aside from the fact that you are now changing the subject from the fact
>that the pits existed and peole were taken to them, shot and tossed (alive
>sometimes) into them to be incinerated; to the questioning of the
>plausability of using rendered human fat as a fuel- yet another typical
>tactic of the deniers -it seems we have a differrence of opinions here,
>yes? Do you know _how_ it was determined the channel was used for “air
>supply?” Was it from eyewitness testimony? Or was it supposition on the
>part of the Soviets? I’m curious as to how the Soviets came to their
>conclusions.

You will continue to be curious as there was never any physical evidence
of it. There was never anything more than the fanciful tales of
gosh-aweful-for real eyewitnesses.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:53 PDT 1996
Article: 48832 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N’burg
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:01:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:23:33 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree gives Matt his daily dose of bashing:
>Deleting all but the relivant point.

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> >> Do you really think I give a damn about your opinion?

>To which I must ask the key question of Mr. Giwer!

>Mr. Giwer, sir, in all due respect, do you really think anybody gives
>a damn about your opinions?
>Luv ya’
>Chuck

>PS: Consider this a threat if you so desire! Lay off Hilary, or your
>wrinkled old ass belongs to me, pal!

You kinky old ass keeps imagining it can get it up.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:54 PDT 1996
Article: 48835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Discussion with Giwer begins
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 06:32:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 1:36:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:03:21 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>>
>> >If Mr. Giwer is truly interested in discussion, I presume he will
>> >now enter into this discussion by explaining why he thinks it is “in
>> >the same league” — after all, evidence for gassing includes
>> >eyewitness testimony, which this is not. (And confessions, and
>> >physical evidence as well, but that’s beside the point here.)
>>
>> >Well, Mr. Giwer? I’d like to discuss this with you. Are you game?
>>
>> Begin.

>I’m not sure why you can’t respond to what I’ve already said, but
>perhaps I was not clear enough, so I’ll try again.

Because you have a tendency to imply things you have not said. Please
do not change the thread name again as you have with this change
obliterated the trace to what you originally said.

>Please explain why you think the quote in question is “in the same
>league” as the homicidal gassings. It has been demonstrated that
>evidence for gassing includes eyewitness testimony, which this is not,
>along with confessions of the perpetrators, and corroborating physical
>evidence.

Even if you insist upon confounding testimony with evidence these are
both testimony and therefore in the same league, category or whatever
you may wish to call it.

You are, however, lacking physical evidence of gassing for the testimony
to corroborate (note the correct order not vice versa) as we have been
over many times.

>Note that whether you believe in homicidal gassings is irrelevant.
>The question at hand is why you think this quote is evidence “in the
>same league” as the evidence for homicidal gassings, which, prima
>facie, is clearly is not.

It is only if you insist you have physical evidence which is not where
these stories got started can you think you have a case. But we have
been over that.

And going further, there was zero physical evidence introduced at the
time these stories were accepted as true. That includes the steaming,
electrocution, gassing and vacuuming stories. So in fact you have no
foundation in the origination of these stories.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:55 PDT 1996
Article: 48837 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!nntp2.backbone.olemiss.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:30:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-58.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27 1:33:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley said:

>[about the alleged harassment of Gutless Giwer]

>>And I have never seen you identify any of the people, besides Marduk, who
>>you are accusing of harrassing your family (and Marduk’s “harassment”
>>seems to consist of one or two e-mail messages sent to your son). Please
>>provide evidence that any of the other regular participants have harassed
>>your family, or withdraw your claim.

>That’s because there was no harassment and no e-mail to his son. But Giwer
>knows that.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Collective FlimFlam
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:58:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 11:02:34 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 10:00:41 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote, citing a troll:

>>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his

>>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.) It just so happens that I’m reading
>>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them cone to the
>>same conclusion that you do.

>That is because _you_ are talking about Vicksburg, while the
>troll is not. _It_ is talking about Vicksberg, as it clearly
>indicated. Vicksburg is off topic – Vicksberg is, as the troll
>will no doubt later illustrate, somewhere in Poland, and
>therefore _on_ topic, as the troll would never post an
>off-topic article here, nosiree h*ber.

>(I recommend you point your rigii at
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>or
>http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>in order to better understand what you are dealing with here.)

>>He who asserts must prove, Mr. Giwer.

>The troll did indeed say that, but the troll most certainly
>did not mean that. It routinely says things that it does not mean.
>It is called “lying,” or “duplicity.” See URL
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/mantra-chanting-fool.html
>for a pristine example.

>>Where did the above information come from?

>Interesting question, particularly when asked of this
>particular troll, which often spouts off without even a remote
>basis or foundation for its blather.

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/email-96-06.html

>(I don’t think you were supposed to ask that question, Sara.)

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-30000-kcal.html

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>Emailed and posted. Followups redirected to the appropriate
>newsgroup, as noted.

>–
>Nizkor Canada | http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>———————–| Prince Myshkin’s Giwer Bait Sold Here
> |————————————–
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there’s egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there’s spam, egg, sausage and spam. That’s not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don’t want any spam!
M: Why can’t she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That’s got spam in it.
M: It hasn’t got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech! I don’t like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam….etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Bloody vikings. You can’t have egg,
bacon
spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don’t like spam!
M: Sh dear, don’t cause a fuss. I’ll have your spam. I love it. I’m
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam…etc
Wa: Shut up! Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam…etc…spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48844 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:10:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 5:14:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>
>> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>> likely agent.
>>
>> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>> collapsed.

>Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>of the V series nerve gasses.

>They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>can block.

You fail to make any points here.

>Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).

>Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).

>Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:

> Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)

> Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
> only fatal after inhalation)

>Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:

> Full protective gear required by operators of chamber

> -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves

Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.

I can not change that.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 09:53:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48845 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:31:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:35:57 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 06 Jul 96 15:07:12, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

> >> Gassings were reported and representatives were begging the
> >> American military to bomb the chambers during the war.

> mnc> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines
> mnc> cut so that no more people could be sent there and so the food
> mnc> would be cut off so those already there would starve.

>Utter nonsense. Go read “Abandonment of the Jews” and follow up on
>the references. I’m still BUSY (today is my son’s birthday – the big
>ONE-OH) so you have time.

For example,

> [email protected] writes:

> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
> those already there would starve.

“In 1944 a new proposalemerged which, it was hoped, might save
Jews from the gas chambers. At first the proposal entailed bombing the
railway
lines leading to Auschwitz. Later it was extended to include bombing
also the
gas chambers and the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of
Jewish
History?”; page 169

–YFE

From [email protected] Sun Jul 7 12:22:20 PDT 1996
Article: 35407 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: You may wish to ask a h*ber……
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:11:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 12:15:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 11:52:30 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (evil h*ber liar) wrote:

>> The New York Times of August 7, 1933, published the Talmudists’
>>declaration of their “holy war” against Germany in a three-column report

>REALITY CHECK #1: This is from a proven forger. Check the NYT
>archives before accepting anything from this source.

>REALITY CHECK #2: August 7, 1933, eh? Let’s give the forger
>the benefit of the doubt, and consider the question “Why would
>a Jewish community feel the need for a “holy war” against the
>Germans?

>Jewish immigrants were denaturalized
>Jews were denied the right to hold public office
>Jews were denied civil service jobs

Precisely the point. Were Jews not denied those opportunities there
would have been Jews hung for waging agressive war and crimes against
humanity and the like.

>Jews were denied employment in the press
>Jews were denied employment in the broadcasting business
>Jews were denied the right to farm

>From the Nazi Party program of February, 1920 (Which may be
>prior to August 7, 1933…but you may wish to ask a h*ber):

>”Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the
>race can only be one who is of German blood without
>consideration of confession.”

>”The right to determine matters concerning administration and
>law belongs only to the citizen; therefore, we demand that
>every public office of any sort whatsover, whether in the
>Reich, the country or municipality, be filled only by
>citizens.” (1708-PS)

And all this time I have been told these were all Hitler’s ideas. How
could I have been so mislead?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:54 PDT 1996
Article: 48849 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:32:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:36:29 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Jul 1996 01:14:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

> “In 1944 a new proposalemerged which, it was hoped, might save
>Jews from the gas chambers. At first the proposal entailed bombing the railway
>lines leading to Auschwitz. Later it was extended to include bombing also the
>gas chambers and the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of Jewish
>History?”; page 169

Explain it to Alec, not me. He is the one who does not understand what
he is supporting.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:55 PDT 1996
Article: 48851 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:39:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:43:15 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 4 Jul 1996 01:14:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> The last time I heard this story they wanted the rail lines cut so that
>> no more people could be sent there and so the food would be cut off so
>> those already there would starve.

> “In 1944 a new proposalemerged which, it was hoped, might save
>Jews from the gas chambers. At first the proposal entailed bombing the railway
>lines leading to Auschwitz. Later it was extended to include bombing also the
>gas chambers and the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of Jewish
>History?”; page 169

BTW: It still doesn’t work for the same reasons. Cut off the rail
lines and you cut off food and medicine for everyone. Iron bombs are
not good enough to hit a single building with a single bomb with any
degree of success. It would have required a major strike to get them
all and in the process the crematoria would also be taken out, thus
doing wonders for the general sanitation.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:56 PDT 1996
Article: 48852 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is appropriate?
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:44:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 8:48:45 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 12:58:49 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>[email protected] (Nele Abels) wrote:
>>
>>>”My opinions, the
>>>only opinions
>>>worth having.”
>>> M. Giwer
>>
>>>”Loquientiae multum,
>>>sapientiae parum.”
>>> Sallust

>[…]

>>>I will collect his contributions to the discussion and to condense them
>>>as a criticism of “revisionist” techniques of discussion shown on a
>>>grateful object. This is in my opinion the only way to defend speaking
>>>with holocaust-deniers.
>>

>> Anyone want to explain this one?

>[Weakminded drivel cleared]

>I don’t think that you have any say in a discussion on how to react
>on your spams, Mr. Giwer. Apart from that, out of sheer curiosity,
>did you understand anything of my essay? If you want to hold up
>your “IQ163” in front of those you call “lurkers”, you should at
>least try to produce a coherent answer…

You are too new to this conference to know but I was specifically asked
my IQ and I answered the question.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:51:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 2:56:10 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 7 Jul 1996 00:45:04 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>> OBC) wrote:

>> > “Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz. The diet fed to I.G.
>> > Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous ‘Buna Soup’ – a
>> > nutritional aid not available to other prisoners – resulted in an
>> > average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
>> > nine pounds a week.

>> It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.
>>
>> It is like some innocent child hearing his Marine father using a
>> nickname for some dish from the slop chute at Quantico and concocting a
>> horror story around it. “They make my Daddy eat plastic pizza and then
>> he got sick and died.”
>>
>> But then there were secret synthetic foods made by the plant that did
>> nothing more than simply not feeding people would do.

>Gee, Mr. Giwer, looks like _you’re_ the one who’s mistaken in reading the
>ironic commentary on the food served to the prisoners. Nowhere is the
>claim made that the “Buna Soup” made people starve _more_ quickly than not
>being fed; the article simply says that the stuff wasn’t worth eating.
>(If the soup caused diarrhea, of course, it could result in quicker-than-
>usual weight loss and dehydration).

The very fact that people believe the story is what is laughable. It is
quite in the league with my “plastic pizza” suggestion.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 08:22:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:26:29 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 03:52:44 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>>[email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] writes:
>>>> A possible position. However as you have seen the game played here
>>>>some derivative source is cited and then there is a demand that the source
>>>>be disproven as though it were graven in stone.
>>>> That is unacceptable.
>>
>>> The point is, you and your allies post rather dubious arguments,
>>>then claim the burden of proof is on the other side, when in fact the other
>>>side demolishes your arguments.
>>
>>The point is that similar methods are used by both sides

> False.

>>and there is in
>>fact similar demolition, that is, it in the eyes of the beholder.

> False.

>> What keeps the game going is the pretention by the holohuggers that
>>their sources are unimpeachable.

> False.

Mere assertion is always the best way to make a point.

>>>> Mothers are not fathers.
>>
>>> No shit, Sherlock????!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>>>So why do you think there is a problem with me when it is the people
>>>>posting to me and about me?
>>
>>> Oh, well, it was little things, like you calling Hilary Ostrov a
>>>”simpering bitch”. Now in most dialects of English, that is highly
>>>insulting. Perhaps you speak an unusual dialiect, or for that matter,
>>>idiolect. Or are you just being an arsehole?
>>
>>HRO’s posts to me and about me have been primarily personal attacks and
>>insults. What makes you think she should be immune from response?

> It is not a personal attack to call Mr. Giwer a liar. He lies. That
>is a statement of fact which can be proved to courtroom standards. I have
>offered a wager that I can prove this to a neutral arbiter from the
>American Arbitration Association. Mr. Giwer has not responded to this
>wager.

Mere assertion is always the best resopnse.

I have seen the “wager game” played out for 19 years in the public
forums and I am not interested in it in the least. It is only newbies
who still engage in it.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 48926 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vistachrome.com!news.supernet.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:22:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-04.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 3:26:16 AM PDT 1996
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On 06 Jul 96 23:05:52, [email protected]g (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz] [Sat 06 Jul 96 02:25][Sat 06 Jul 96 >21:36][0]*>

> >> a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
> >> started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
> >> death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to
> >> death.

> mnc> What an asshole. We know that one “whiff” causes immediate
> mnc> unconsciousness.

>Only if the cyanide release was fast enough – which you’ve been
>arguing against.

>Good lord, Matt – have you really burned yourself out already?!? The
>others, Moran the moron and Huber the hopeless ect, aren’t worth
>trying to match wits with. I thought thta *YOU* might give me a
>little bit of a fight, but not with this kind of nonsense!

>You did a much more creditable job, albeit still failing, in Debate,
>Politics, Controv, Soapbox and even the Ilink conferences!

>This is pathetic!

You are trying a fool’s game and not answering the mail.

We KNOW that “one whiff” does not cause recoverable unconsciousness and
we know that the completion of the story requires the flesh and clothing
to fuse into gelatinous masses. If you believe one you believe them
both.

You are showing yourself no better than a holohugger, yet you pretending
rationality in your phone calls.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 08:50:59 PDT 1996
Article: 48931 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:48:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 2:52:29 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 19:54:38 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> No offense intended, but why were the nazis experimenting with phenol
>shots in
>>1942, after they already supposedly knew how quickly zyklon could kill? It’s
>>somewhat of a non sequitor, isn’t it?

>Well, because the Nazis weren’t “experimenting” with phenol shots. The
>Nazis used phenol shots as a method of execution for the sick and
>invalided in the infirmaries. As to the time it took to kill- a phenol
>shot to the heart killed in a matter of seconds.

But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? Or the
hollow two inch nails to get between the ribs?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 19:56:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49067 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.new-york.net!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 20:37:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 201
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 07 1:41:39 PM PDT 1996
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On 7 Jul 1996 14:25:21 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>> The persistance of the myth does not need any nebulous conspiracy or
>>guilt to explain. All you have to do is read what the holohuggers post
>>on this conference as a microcosm of the real world.

> The failure of “revisionists” to shake this “myth” does not need any
>repression to explain. All you have to do is to read the lies,
>distortions, false logic, and other intellectual shortcomings in the works
>of revisionists – including Mr. Giwer himself – and it becomes quite clear
>that the “real world” is something they are hardly qualified to talk
>about.

And the more honest note the mere assertion of such things rather than a
demonstration of them at the time is all the holohuggers have going for
them.

>> It is not permitted to publically express any questions about the
>>current dogmatic form of the holocaust in any public media. In some
>>countries it is illegal to do so in any media, public or private.

> This was not always the case even in Germany (and I do wish they would
>repeal the laws, as it gives people like Mr. Giwer a wonderful red herring
>to wave about). It is certainly not the case in this country.

> Mr. Giwer has complained of conspiracies to censor him and harrass him
>and his family due to his posts here.

At no time have I made any claim to any conspiracy. But you know that.
So what would have brought to you mind?

He can, of course, supply no
>evidence other than his own word, which has been proved false on many
>occasions – and he can, of course, provide no evidence that any genuine
>harrassment has come as a result of his questioning of the Holocaust,
>rather than his provable lies and libel. But he pretends to be unaware
>that one can avoid that in this forum through the use of anonymous
>remailers such as anon.penet.fi.

It is testimony. Suddenly testimony is not good enough for you?

> Revisionists have come into this forum and left after they were unable
>to reply to rebuttals of their logic and falsification of their evidence.
>Mr. Giwer’s lies to the contrary, Greg Raven was presented with cogent
>critiques of his methodology and of the distortions and dishonest
>omissions contained in the sources he cited for his own arguments. Like
>Mr. Giwer, he now refers to reminders of his own proven dishonesty as
>”personal attacks.”

If he was presented with what you claim why has that not been done in
the last six months or so?

> Friedrich Berg was presented with technical references on toxicology
>and gaping holes in his own reasoning, plus evidence that he distorted
>material he cited in his own work. Mr. Giwer has been presented with my
>material addressing Berg on more than one occasion. Despite Mr. Giwer’s
>professed scientific and engineering background, Mr. Giwer has not been
>able to offer any substantive response to it.

I have no idea who this Berg person is. However any responses I have
supplied have been based upon science and engineering. That you may not
have realized that is merely an example of your lack of knowledge.

> Michael Hoffman got similar treatment; his references were checked
>(the affidavits of Morgen and Mittelstadt) and it was shown how he was
>reading them in a completely invalid manner. He too provably lied – not
>about the Holocaust, but about his justification for denigrating my
>knowledge of Hebrew. (His claimed justification was a comment I made
>nearly three weeks _after_ his insult was delivered. I don’t _think_ he
>owns a time machine.)

Again, never heard of him.

>> I would have thought the reason for the persistance was obvious by
>>inspection.

> Mr. Giwer has shown some deficiencies in the thinking department
>before. Not to mention the reading comprehension and memory departments.

Again, mere assertion.

>> The issue you point out is another matter, it is questioning why people
>>would raise it to the status of a cult and why there would be such
>>vigorous defense of whatever the current truth happens to be. The
>>”explanations” the holohuggers give, such as preventing it from
>>happening again, are obviously transparent and false.

> BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!

Because it HAS HAPPENED again.

> I wonder if Mr. Giwer would like to turn a similar skeptical eye on
>the explanations of the IHR “revisionists” as to the motives for their
>vigorous efforts to disprove any Nazi policy of mass murder, using
>doctored “evidence” if need be.

I have not seen examples of that. Perhaps you have some.

>> What you cite is merely one suggestion as to why this is done. Blood
>>money for Israel is another suggestion. However at this point the
>>reasons suggested are speculation.
>>
>> Consider the difference in Russia. They trot out their war heroes in
>>November and remember losses on that day and it is over for another
>>year. But in November the main speeches are of triumph, of winning the
>>war.
>>
>> However a better analogy would be in there were monuments and museums
>>and regular public speeches in Germany commemorating losing the war. It
>>is as though the South commemorated losing the War between the States.
>>As though England commemorated the lose of the American colonies, Mexico
>>the loss of Texas and California.
>>
>> This holocaust memorializing is a total inversion of human nature.

> So too is the complete lack of recantation of those supposedly coerced
>false confessions.

It is difficult to recant from the grave.

One or two might be explainable as the kind of
>brainwashing of the witchcraft trial kind, as some “revisionists” feebly
>try to pretend, but the number of testimonies contrary to self-interest
>is, in my view, too large – and too unbalanced by later retraction – to be
>convincing. Mr. Giwer is welcome to address this point, which I have
>raised before and which no “revisionist” has dared to touch.

Which also explains why the witches did not recant.

But you have also read here many exculpatory statements by those at the
top of the chain clearly indicating they knew nothing about any such
thing and were quite surprised to hear the testimony.

>>As I
>>have said before, it is like the widow who visits the grave of her
>>husband every Sunday and has not changed anything in the house since the
>>day he died.
>>
>>There is something very, very wrong with this behavior. It needs help,
>>not encouragement.

> The same can be said of Mr. Giwer’s behavior. He claims that he is
>just trying to get this newsgroup back on track, without personal attacks.
>However, he has run away from discussions of cremation and of diesel
>exhaust gassing which he initiated. Clearly he doesn’t have the capacity
>to debate the material with someone who has some familiarity with it.

What do you think I have run away from? I have must have posted at
least a hundred messages on each of those two subjects alone. Perhaps
you have simply not following very closely.

Or perhaps you are and are merely trying to address the lurkers with
assertion knowing they will not check for themselves.

> And he has also said he is here to debunk. (But what kind of
>debunking is it that needs to lie, as Mr. Giwer has provably done, time
>and again?) Earlier said that his purpose here was to amuse himself
>dealing with the type of people he found here – in other words, to troll.

You assertions of lies are again merely that. The closest thing that I
can remember to that is someone without a scientific background claiming
something I say about science is a lie. I have found several
“refutations” of my statements by nonscientists who have not the
slightest idea what they are talking about.

> It is hard to see how all of Mr. Giwer’s statements here can be true.
>Many are provably false. This is not a personal attack; it is a statement
>of fact which I have backed up with self-contradictory quotes from Mr.
>Giwer’s own posts as well as comparison of the words of others (including
>my own) with Mr. Giwer’s blatant misrepresentations of those words, and
>his dishonest editing.

Do you really think the lurkers are swallowing this?

> Anytime Mr. Giwer wishes to engage in serious debate about the
>Holocaust he is free to do so and I am here for him. But he cannot read
>with comprehension, cannot remember what he has read (or, sometimes,
>written!) and has run away from substantive discussion of issues where he
>claims to have a solid grounding, technical and scientific issues. It is
>clear that he cannot cope with the material, so he must lie and spam and
>troll and hope to distract people from the intellectual failures which are
>well-documented in his own posts.

> I have given him every opportunity to respond with serious debate, but
>he has run away time and again, one time lying that I have deleted his
>work (which I have not done, and he of course never offers documentation
>of his own claims). It is clear that he is just a lying troll who has no
>real interest or ability to discuss these issues (or even understand them,
>as he demonstrates repeated failures of reading comprehension).

> If he wants people to stop referring to him as a lying troll, all he
>has to do is stop lying and stop trolling. It is that simple. But so far
>he has shown no mental capacity to do anything better. Too bad.

Nice try but no cigar.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 21:34:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49072 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mauving right along
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:54:00 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

A most amazing thing has occurred.

After months of insisting upon blue coloring, after hundreds of messages
on the subject, testimony as to a different color is presented.

Lo and Behold! The color is easily misidentified!

Can this misidentification be applied to the original blue?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 8 21:34:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:59957 alt.conspiracy:65400 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24898 alt.politics.white-power:35550 alt.radio.talk:11910 alt.revisionism:49074 alt.skinheads:31181

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 07:25:06 -0500, [email protected] (Wonderful
Lady) wrote:

>I might mention that Jews have more intelligence than other whites–about
>10-15 IQ points higher. In addition, jews have given whites far more than
>they have taken. Science, medicine, democracy, military methods,
>agriculture, religion, philosophy, psychology, ethics, finance,
>journalism, tolerance–these are the things which jews have given all
>mankind.

You read like a Jewish white supremacist or Nation of Islam type.

>If the jews had not been born, the world would not be as advanced as it is
>today. I believe there should be a single day every year in which jews
>should be honored. I honor jews every day, period. If all races were this
>productive and this responsible for their actions and for the rights of
>others, we would not have racial hatred, high crime, or irresponsibility
>by members of certain groups. Racial conflict would be at a new all time
>low. There would be no reason to hate, only to love.

From the people who gave genocide to the world.

>Wonderful Lady
>Repect all races equally … Demand the best from them … Do whatever you want as long as you don’t harm someone else…

Very wierd person.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:46 PM CDT 1996
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On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:14:30 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>> >> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>> >>
>> >> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>> >> likely agent.
>> >>
>> >> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>> >> collapsed.
>>
>> >Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>> >having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>> >developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>> >to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>> >GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>> >of the V series nerve gasses.
>>
>> >They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>> >neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>> >down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>> >neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>> >can block.
>>
>> You fail to make any points here.

>I am providing background information so that the reader may render
>a somewhat informed judgement on the topic. I’m well aware that putting
>things in context and providing information is a foreign concept to
>you, but I have no hope of ever making you acknowledge anything.

>> >Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>> >body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>> >recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>> >to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>> >significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>> >thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).
>>
>> >Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).
>>
>> >Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:
>>
>> > Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)
>>
>> > Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
>> > only fatal after inhalation)
>>
>> >Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:
>>
>> > Full protective gear required by operators of chamber
>>
>> > -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves
>>
>> Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
>> reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
>> to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.
>>
>> I can not change that.

>Nor can I change the fact that you so blatently omitted the subsequent reasons
>I posted as to why Zyklon B would be a technically and operationally better
>agent than a nerve agent such as Sarin. Why don’t you puzzle those reasons
>out for a while and then get back to me when you actually have something
>interesting to say other than insipid comments and non-sequitors?

I made one point, that the time frame for HCN deaths were on the same
order as nerve gas. You went on to repeat a canned answer to something
I did not address. At no time did I state that nerve gas would have
been a better choice.

So how much did you want left in? The point is very simple. The time
frame for death from breathing cyanide and from nerve gas (and from
carbon monoxide for that matter) are all reported to be approximately
the same by the eyewitnesses.

The point I was making, which has NOTHING whatever to do with “why
didn’t they use nerve gas?,” is that finding HCN in the same time frame
as nerve gas was my first serious indication that there was something
wrong with the stories based upon my assumption that that it had been
nerve gas.

To go further, it was later finding CO deaths on the same order as HCN
and nerve gas that indicated there was something seriously wrong with
the stories.

Now if you would like to address the point I am making, please do so.

If you want to run off on why nerve gas was a poor choice, do not imply
you are addressing anything I posted.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49111 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:46:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:47:47 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 08:36:43 -0700, [email protected] (Mike Stein)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Rich Graves wrote:
>>[email protected] (DvdThomas) writes:
>>As always, your organization is welcome on the web, and encouraged to
>>participate in substantive discussions rather than spamming a la Giwer. I
>>challenge you to point out a single message in this forum supporting the
>>censorship of liars on the basis of content.

> Matt Giwer posted several supporting the censorhip of alleged defamatory
>lies (i.e., libel) prior to judicial determination of same, provided that
>the libel was not authored by Matt Giwer.

That, as expected, is false.

I supported ONLY stopping a website from violating copyright.

But then of course, holohuggers always lie.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What are your views of Jews?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:31:54 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 20:33:08 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree says:
>In response to the baron’s words of wisdom:
>As usual the baoron resumes to speak for too many, while not realizing
>that he only possessess one opinion; HIS OWN!

>Richard Schultz wrote:
>>
>> Alexander Baron ([email protected]) wrote:
>>
>> : This is typical Exterminationist sophistry; most people (including
>> : Revisionists) don’t hate “the Jews” but they are utterly sick to death of
>> : their whining and wailing.

>Yeah, baron, and we are also sick and tired of you.

Another “we” heard from. An old fart imagining he has membership in
some group that approves of his posts.

Why don’t you get
>a job taking care of the Queen’s horses?

You took a great fall?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:00 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:06:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden

>We are still waiting to see it. You have yet to provide such
>”physical evidence” which would pass the “revisionist” standards
>applied when evidence to the Holocaust is given.

>Provide it, or shut up.

>As long as you don’t provide it, you are also “proving” (by
>an extension of your “revisionist arguments”) that Dresden was
>not bombed.

I have pointed to the available physical evidence that does not need one
word of testimony to support the event. Apparently you can not read it.

># of mass extermination at Belsen.

>I think you’re confusing Belsen and Belzec. Please check this
>before you’re making further claims about Belsen (which are, of
>course, irrelevant to Belzec).

You are attempting to SUBSTITUTE Belzec for Belsen, Belsen being what
has been under discussion.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:05 PDT 1996
Article: 49128 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:31:57 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 07 Jul 96 19:38:40, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[To Alec Grynspan] [Sat 06 Jul 96 21:32][Sun 07 Jul 96 19:12][0]*>

> >> entailed bombing the railway lines leading to Auschwitz. Later
> >> it was extended to include bombing also the gas chambers and
> >> the crematoria.” Dawidowicz; “What is the Use of Jewish
> >> History?”; page 169

> mnc> Explain it to Alec, not me. He is the one who does not
> mnc> understand what he is supporting.

>Ahhh, but I *DO* understand, Matt.

>There you have others supporting my statements – that the allies
>were asked to bomb the gas chambers before the end of the war.

As I said, “The LAST time I heard this,” which is quite unrelated to
more recent posts.

>Now – why would somebody refuse to do so, knowing the microscopic
>cost and the magnitude of the Nazi hysteria for exterminating the
>Jews?

Because iron bombs would have had to destroy everything in sight in
order to get those four buildings.

>Look up the State Department’s reasoning as to why it should
>continue.

>Simple research, Matt! After you’ve done some research, I’ll have
>the free time to defeat you – errr – debate you.

Why do you not post the “reasoning” since you know it?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 49129 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:48:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:49:34 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49129 alt.censorship:88090

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:21:05 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Mike Stein) wrote:

>> Matt Giwer posted several supporting the censorhip of alleged defamatory
>> lies (i.e., libel) prior to judicial determination of same, provided that
>> the libel was not authored by Matt Giwer.

>And, as you indicated in another thread, Mr. Stein, Matt Giwer’s
>intention was to get the complete site taken down, not just the libel in
>question.

>Matt Giwer also posted messages indicating that he was going to try to
>get another site taken down for violation of copyright. I note for the
>record that, in commenting on this copyright terrorism at the time, I
>explicitly refused to go tit-for-tat by notifying Disney’s lawyers about
>the appropriated images on _his_ web pages. (I think it was Disney;
>it might have been a Bloom County gif or something like that.)

>But perhaps DvdThomas will claim that Matt Giwer’s _goal_ was to
>_eliminate_ censorship, and he was simply choosing an unorthodox
>_means_, to wit: _encouraging_ it…

But as with all holohuggers are you are liar.

My complaint was legally with copyright violation.

As to the libel, Alec Grynspan has “testified” to that and Davey-girl
has been too busy selling machine tools to participated lately.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 49134 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At last it can be told
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:34:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:35:15 AM PDT 1996
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On 8 Jul 1996 03:24:18 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
>>[email protected] (ANGUS MCLELLAN) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>
>>>[email protected] writes
>>>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>>>Subject: When I said it
>>>>From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>>>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT
>>
>>>> When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was
>>>>wrong.
>>>>”No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
>>>>finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were
>>>>tried had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness
>>>>required by our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by
>>>>the international community. By our standards that crime arose under an
>>>>ex post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
>>>>guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle.”
>>>>–U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
>>>>Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190.
>>>> I would say it is good company to be wrong with.

> Last time I looked appeal to authority was still a fallacy.

This is not an appeal, it it clearly a reference to good company to be
in as is stated. Douglas may or may not be (have been) correct. Your
lack fo substantive refutation is another volume in the ongoing
discussion.

>>>I fail to see why.
>>
>>>I have asked before and I’ll ask again (please note, these are not
>>>rhetorical questions and I would welcome the views of any readers) :-
>>
>>>A.
>>>What was the relevance of the US constitution, bill of rights, statute
>>>law or precedents to the Nuremberg process ?
>>
>> They incorporate principles of law and justice that are common to all
>>civilized countries, such as the prohibition of ex post facto laws.

> Although it is not permitted in the US, ex post facto establishment of
>penalties for acts which were criminal before the act is a more debatable
>matter. Perhaps Mr. Giwer would care to cite the code which defines
>”civilized” other than his “Because! I! Say! So!”

Civilized means, among other things, countries that do not permit ex
post facto laws to be enacted. Of course you, being neutral on the
matter, would agree with any US law retroactively making brain sucking
abortions equal to murder and mandating execution of the doctors who
performed it and the women who paid for these murders.

But of course you would support such a law because you have no problem
with brain-sucking and the like.

You would also have no problem wtih executing those who let blacks die
of syphillis without treatment because they wanted to study the progress
of the disease. We have a Surgeon General nominee in need of execution
under that law.

These are clearly two different examples and politically opposed. I can
give you more if you would like. (How about using the FBI against
political enemies as a capital offense?) But then you will go to any
effort you can to exonorate the idiots you pretend to support in public
but will question in private.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:07 PDT 1996
Article: 49135 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac – I.G. Farben’s Auschwitz Diet…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:00:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:01:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:23:20 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
>>OBC) wrote:

>>>Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.002
>>>Last-modified: 1993/10/24
>>>See Also: holocaust diet.01

>>> I.G. Auschwitz: I.G. Farben’s Buna (synthetic rubber) division, built
>>> near the site of the Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II concentration
>>> camps. (Farben eventually built their own corporate concentration
>>> camp at the site, to eliminate the need to march prisoners several
>>> miles to and from the Buna plant every day, as had been the practice.
>>> It was known as Monowitz, and had a sign over the gate which read
>>> “Arbeit Macht Frei.”)

>>>[Editor’s note: I understand that the “Arbeit Macht Frei” sign can be seen
>>>today over the gate at Auschwitz I – this raises the question of whether or
>>>not there were more than one, or if the one the author mentions was moved to
>>>Auschwitz I at a later date, or if the author was simply incorrect. knm]

>>> “Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz. The diet fed to I.G.
>>> Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous ‘Buna Soup’ – a
>>> nutritional aid not available to other prisoners – resulted in an
>>> average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
>>> nine pounds a week. At the end of a month, the change in the
>>> prisoner’s appearance was marked; at the end of two months, the
>>> inmates were not recognizable except as caricatures formed of skin,
>>> bones, and practically no flesh; after three months, they were either
>>> dead or so unfit for work that they were marked for release to the
>>> gas chambers at Birkenau. Two physicians who studied the effect of
>>> the I.G. diet on the inmates noticed that ‘the normally nourished
>>> prisoner at Buna could make up the deficiency by his own body for a
>>> period of three months….The prisoners were condemned to burn up
>>> their own body weight while working and, providing no infections
>>> occurred, finally died of exhaustion.'”>> others – typical SS Auschwitz punishment reports> (Borkin, 125)

>>> Work Cited

>>> Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York:
>>> The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.

>> It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.

>The Giwer-troll provides further corroboration of Mike Stein’s
>assessment in another thread that he (the troll) lacks the intellect,
>intelligence or comprehension skills to be able to contribute in any
>meaningful way in a discussion of the history of the Holocaust.

>If anything is laughable it is that the troll deludes himself by
>thinking that he is capable of participating in any debate.

>[balance snipped]

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: [email protected]
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster – The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49136 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is appropriate?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:01:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
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On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:31:32 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>: wrote:
>:>[Weakminded drivel cleared]

>:>I don’t think that you have any say in a discussion on how to react
>:>on your spams, Mr. Giwer. Apart from that, out of sheer curiosity,
>:>did you understand anything of my essay? If you want to hold up
>:>your “IQ163” in front of those you call “lurkers”, you should at
>:>least try to produce a coherent answer…

>:You are too new to this conference to know but I was specifically asked
>:my IQ and I answered the question.

>If your mind really were so well-oiled as you claim, you would have noticed that
>I didn’t ask “Where do the IQ163 come from?” but “Would you please
>answer in a way that your claim of IQ163 looks to be more than an involuntary
>self-satire?” You prove over and over again, that you are not able to read
>thoroughly, and therefore you are not qualified to comment upon historical
>subjects. Apart from that, trying to imply that I am less qualified to contribute
>to alt.revisionism because I’m “to new to this conference” his amusing.
>Assuming that the Old is better per se is an early modern concept…

>Nele

IF you had a measurable IQ, son of Jew hating murders, you would not be
posting this nonsense.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49137 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:05:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:07:05 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 09:42:30 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Cite the migration.
>>

>Casimir the Great of Poland invited the Jews to come to Poland to form a
>middle class.

Buzzer there.

That was nearly 1000 years after there was anyone to invite. They were
not invited from “palestine” but from other countries long after (400
years) after the Judeans were supposed to have migrated.

>They spread to Russia from there, since Poland virtually controlled
>Russia and Eastern Europe.

>To learn the date, look up Casimir the Great of Poland.

Yes, the book is titled POLAND. I read it.

>Matt – your brain cells are getting flabby. Too much Dahlman-baiting and
>trolling gets to you after a while. You need some solid debating
>exercise.

You are pretending to what you do not know and are becoming a holohugger
with each succeeding post.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:09 PDT 1996
Article: 49158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Seven Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 4)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:55 PM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49158 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:151

On 6 Jul 1996 19:24:58 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

> Not only did Matt Giwer refuse to answer the questions Ken asked, he
>seems to have posted a copyright violation (i.e. the Monty Python spam sketch).

> Actually, if Giwer posted an answer to even one of Ken’s questions, I
>would be amazed. If he answered two or more… naah, that’s asking too much of
>Giwer.

As he could not read the answer what would be the point?

> Derek
>–
>Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:10 PDT 1996
Article: 49164 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for Matt Giwer
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:54:03 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 10:58:22 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>Mr. Giwer:
>
>Once again, I ask this question. You said:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>> >>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>> >>> Vicksberg. There he became appalled by the civilian response to his

>I responded with:
>> >In article ,
>> >[email protected] wrote:

>> >>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that “scorched earth”
>> >>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.) It just so happens that I’m reading
>> >>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them come to the
>> >>same conclusion that you do.
>
>For one thing, the scorched earth policy came from SHERMAN, not Grant.
>
>So are you going to respond to my direct question? It is NOT insulting, it
>is NOT a personal attack. It is a simple question.

I am talking about Sherman also.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49165 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They don’t call Giwer the cotrol for nothing!’
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 6 Jul 1996 19:29:30 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> It is unclear what a schwarte is doing pointing here.

> I think Mattie Giwer needs to lie down, as he is even *more* confused
>than ever.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT

” The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. ”
IMT VII – p.491.

> Derek

>–
>Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
> George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
> _The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49167 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:49 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 05:38:39 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>Equinox wrote:

>[nerve gas question of unclear intent deleted]

There was no nerve gas question.

>> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>
>> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>likely agent.

> Mr. Giwer has demonstrably misunderstood the descriptions.

What is there about death in any time frame from instantaneous to 20
minutes have I not understood?

>> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>collapsed.

> Mr. Giwer has misread so many things that it is not clear how he can
>be capable of forming any valid opinion about any of this. He neither
>understands nor remembers what he reads.

When lacking in substance …

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 49169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:52 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 96 19:18:00 +0100, [email protected] (ANGUS
MCLELLAN) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes

>>Equinox wrote:
>
>>>My question is this; how can anyone doubt the extensive stocks of
>>>nerve gas in the Nazi inventory? … How can this be explained away?

>>It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>likely agent.
>>When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>collapsed.

>It is indubitably the case that Nazi Germany disposed of stocks of the
>nerve agent GA (Tabun). The much-improved GB (Sarin) was available in
>only limited quantities, while the further improved GD (Soman) was never
>produced on any scale. VX, mentioned by the original poster, was a
>British post-war development derived from insecticides and vastly
>improved in lethality and especially persistence over the primitive GA.

What is with you folks? You reply to a post of mine with an answer that
has no relationship to anything I posted. You are the second. Are you
unable to answer the mail?

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 07:37:13 PDT 1996
Article: 49171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group… (was Re: Baron exp…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:16:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:17:56 AM CDT 1996
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On 8 Jul 1996 17:50:03 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Only a holohugger would take what I post as a “vile insult.”

>Only Mr. Giwer would defend his vile insults with more insults, but
>he is not even fooling himself.

> Only a Nazi would take a permanent worldwide economic boycott of
> Germany at the depths of the Depression as a threat.

>Only an ignoramus would characterize the attempted boycott as
>unprovoked. Only an ignoramus would characterize the failed boycott
>as a real threat.

>And only Mr. Giwer would imply that I have ever labeled him a “Nazi”
>when all I have ever done is point out his enormous ignorance.

You are of course invited to post the provocation and the dates or to
admit you are fantasizing and in need of professional care.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49172 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They probably thought they were being inoculated’
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:21:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:22:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 23:26:58 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> And all the while never thinking of a simple air bubble to cause an
>> embolism and heart failure, death in five minutes. Stupid Germans.

> You have a medical reference for this? A pulmonary embolism would
>take more than five minutes to form. If it is not of sufficient size it could take
>days to kill. I am currently dealing with a case of a man who died of
>undiagnosed embolisms. He lived for at least ten days after the p.e began.

Dear jerkoff,

The injections are reported to be directly to the heart. Therefore they
form immediately. Kapisch?

Of course not.

You are a lying holohugger.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!nntp2.backbone.olemiss.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE DIESEL EXHAUST CONTROVERSY
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:39:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-03.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27 6:42:30 PM CDT 1996
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[email protected] (ibokor) wrote:

>DvdThomas ([email protected]) wrote:
>:
>: That’s DIESEL. Very few cars have diesel engines. Was this the case in
>: this unreferenced citation?

>A great many cars in continental Europe have diesel engines.
>Diesel engines are available as options on cars manufactured by:
>Renault,
>Peugeot,
>Citroen,
>Fiat,
>Volkswagen,
>Mercedes,
>Volvo,
>Opel,
>Ford.

>There are millions of diesel powered passenger cars on the roads of
>Europe.

The story was supposed to have happened in the US. Diesel passenger
cars have a very bad reputation over here.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:25 PDT 1996
Article: 49176 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:09:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:11:07 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:32:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Bradley Smith) writes:

># Even little Danny Keren

>Hmm. “Little”? In terms of body weight? Compared to you? Sure.

>Hope I’m still “fit for work”, nontheless? Can still do ’bout
>50 push-ups and 15 pull-ups, on a good day.

I am, as are we all, so impressed.

A strong back is a terrible thing to waste.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:26 PDT 1996
Article: 49177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: A TRICKY VIPER…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:65575 alt.censorship:88127 alt.revisionism:49177 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:334175 alt.politics.usa.republican:230710 alt.politics.perot:50280

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:50:07 EDT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>
>>Michael Perin wrote:

>>>Dear Luke,

>>>I saw a segment of C-SPAN around the middle of June when a caller from
>>>Georgia reported a strange incident that she had seen in her local paper
>>>relative to the Militia issue. She said that it was reported in her paper
>>>that two supposed Militia members who had been arrested a few months
>>>earlier because they had been planning to blow up federal buildings, were
>>>in fact, BATF/FBI agents, and that the whole thing was a set up hoax!
>>>Although the arrests of these hoaxsters made the headlines all accross the

>>>country, the fact that they were federal agents posing as Militia members
>>>in order to discredit the Militia movement was completely ignored by the
>>>national media.

>> And what has come out about this “Viper Militia” so far does not make
>>much sense.

>I see! Getting wiped out and humiliated in the Holocaust discussion, so the
>Giwer-bot decides to troll the militia issue. What an unmitigated defeat
>the Giwer-loser has suffered.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49180 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars…
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:25 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 14:45:23 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ceacaa) wrote:

>> Jamie McCarthy wrote on July 7
>>
>> > Then please explain, Mr. Allen, the photo of Krema II, taken by the
>> > Bauleitung, that _clearly_ shows three “little chimneys”
>>
>> >Ceacaa then went on to write a lot of verbiage about the >photograph:
>> words without any apparent point or conclusion.

>[Mr. Allen’s denier drivel snipped]

>> In short, the three boxes are just that, three boxes of
>> roofing material laid out at the job site.

>Well, this pretty much confirms that Mr. Allen is simply grasping at
>straws now. What _evidence_ does he have that the “little chimneys” are
>”boxes of roofing material?” None. How does Mr. Allen explain that these
>”boxes of roofing material” can be seen on the roof of L.Keller 1 in the
>USAAF aerial photo of August 1944- a _year and a half_ later? He can’t.
>Given that there is a plethora of photgraphic, documentary, and eyewitness
>evidence that descibes these “little chimneys” as part of the Zyklon B
>introduction column system.

On the aerial photo on Nizkor that is in this time frame there are FOUR
patches that are much too LARGE to be the THREE LITTLE chimneys beyond
the fact that they are neither on the center line nor in a straight
line.

It would behoove you to post the aerial photo you are talking about as
it is not that one.

>Occam’s Razor would have us opt for the _simplest_ explination for their
>existance: they were part of the Zyklon B introduction column and NOT
>”boxes ofroofing material” that just happened to be left on the roof for
>18 months.

The simplest explanation is that the marks on the aerial photos have
nothing whatsoever to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49181 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Do Real Men Scream? (was Re: ‘I was afraid of Bothmann’)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:29 AM PDT 1996
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On 8 Jul 1996 04:00:42 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>>As I have some difficulties with your slang, I didn’t first understood
>>>>>what you told with “mess of psyrinks”. All the psychiatrists that I
>>>>>can poll are among the firsts classified in the contests for the
>>>>>hospitals (for example, 5, 8 or 11 among 260). The most part of the
>>>>>French psychiatrists pass this examination. These that I know are
>>>>>always classified in the first quarter.
>>
>>>>>But this pedigree has nothing to do with your claim: that men can’t
>>>>>scream only in fear of death. It is ridiculous, and it remains
>>>>>ridiculous. I don’t find you very likeable, but since I had my own
>>>>>experience, I hope that you will never try it yourself.
>>
>>>> I have serious problems with your restatement also. I did not say can
>>>>not anything. I said do not. I have no idea what you are trying to say
>>>>with “only in fear of”.
>>
>>>Try “only when afraid of dying” instead of “only in fear of death”. Is
>>>it clearer?
>>
>>>>But primarily, I was questioning that you “polled” anyone and implying
>>>>that you made it up.
>>
>>>>Is that clear enough?
>>
>>>Yes. I had my own experience of a such situation, but I’m lying. I
>>>told you to read the book from the French headsman in 1792, and
>>>another books from this time, but you wan’t. I told you to see the TV
>>>reports 1/4h after the Manchester’s bombing, but you didn’t see what I
>>>saw. The testimonies from the WWII are more recent, but faked. I can
>>>ask a dozen of psychiatrists if it is likely (that a man will scream
>>>when afraid of dying), but what I will report will be made up.
>>
>>>It’s very clear. You don’t have even the beginning of an argument. You
>>>have only an opinion and use it to tell that all the testimonies of
>>>the gassings (of men) are faked. On the top, you don’t know if a
>>>gassing was painful after some seconds for the victims.
>>
>> And all of this simply because I noted the ready accessability of a
>>dozen psychologists to poll?
>>
>> You don’t even realize that little girls practice screaming.

> Nothing in Dr. Bilik’s post allows this as a valid logical conclusion.

>>You don’t even realize that most men know as much about how to scream as
>>how to yodel.

> I was able to yodel the first time I tried it though I admit that I
>might be unusual. Screaming is much easier.

> Mr. Giwer is clearly projecting his own handicaps upon other people.
>Unless he thinks the pitch is significant, and that what men do ought to
>be called “yelling?” Well, Mr. Giwer has already amply demonstrated the
>”paupacy” of his skills in the English language. What’s one more example?

You are still playing the fool on this one in your pretension that you
actually know women whose speaking voice is in the frequency range of a
scream.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49183 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:32 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:59:48 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing.
># I had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>#
># But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
># likely agent.

>What “times involved”? What on earth are you talking about?

Stop the heart and five to ten minutes is the time to death, with five
minutes being most certainly the onset of irreversable brain damage.
But you know that.

>Back to your rubbish of the HCN “taking too long to evaporate”?

Evidence of that was posted here in the “greater part of” technical
report on it, noting that “greater part of” is a technical term for
“half of” in english indicating an exponentially decaying release. That
post lead to 6-12 hours as the 99% release time.

But you know that.

># When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of
># cards collapsed.

>So, no gassings in US prisons also? They also use cyanide, right?

No Zykon B used there.

>Get a grip, Giwer.

Repeat after me, A computer scientist is an applied mathematician not a
scientist save in title.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:35 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 17:06:17 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>ANGUS MCLELLAN wrote:

>> So, why not “plain old cyanide” ?

>The information has been posted many times before, including,
>among other things, a direct comparison between Sarin as a
>representative nerve gas and HCN in the Zyklon B form as well
>as a list of most of the chemical agents available at the
>time and why HCN would still be a good choice.

>However Matt Giwer, in a fit of Raven’s Myopia ™ has seen
>fit to not have seen these and when he does, responds to only
>a single point with a non-sequitor.

You are still addressing your own straw man that has nothing to do with
what I posted.

Continue and you might appear self-aware some day.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:31 PDT 1996
Article: 49185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rampant Irony Deficiency Alert
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:13:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:15:08 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 06:58:59 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Nice try, fatbroad.

>Mr. Giwer continues to show respect for those with differing opinions.
>
>Sara

What is your problem, Schwartze?

Are you as fat as she is?

Whatever you would like.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 11:52:32 PDT 1996
Article: 49188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Giwer defends himself with lies
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:57 PM CDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49188 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:152 alt.usenet.kooks:26688

On 7 Jul 1996 06:24:16 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>> Is this the way you continue after a response after my description of
>>>>how to stop it all?
>>
>>> If you want people to stop referring to you as a lying troll, stop
>>>lying and stop trolling. That is _my_ description of how to stop it all.
>>>It is that simple.
>>
>>> Especially since you are not even competent at trolling. Words have
>>>meanings, and you screwed up big time on your wording on the thing about
>>>Rudenko and the two trials of Hoess. And you misread and lied about my
>>>statements. Maybe you need to go back and reread Korzybski – not that I
>>>seriously think it will help.
>>
>> Care do name his book that I am referring to?

> If you cannot remember the name of the book, which was given here
>within the past few weeks, it is only more evidence that your mind is not
>capable of dealing with the material presented here.

The title was given only by me. It is doubtful any of you folks even
heard of the man before I mentioned him. And I haven’t seen a one of
you post a word indicating you understand its relevence.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 12:46:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:06 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:27:08 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree, can’t keep his trap shut about lil tommy numbnuts:
>What is the Moron up to now? Is he doing Gywer’s thing? Spamming all
>over the internet? Is this his way of discussing the Holocaust? Must
>be, he hasn’t been able to come up with anything except shoes made in
>China by Jooos for The Holocaust Museums.
>This takes real Moron, brain-power. Yuk-Yuk-cackle! 🙂
>your pal,
>Chuck
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 17:13:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:02:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:03:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:55:49 EDT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (DvdThomas)
>said:

>>
>>Rich Graves continues his one-note song of lying:

>>>Oh, as soon as they get media attention, they’ll be back. Only problem
>>is,
>>>it’s all a lie. The valleynet.net/valleynet.com trademark dispute had
>>>nothing to do with the content of the CODOH site.

>>The trademark dispute led to a name change that went into effect on July
>>1st, and was advertised at the top of CODOH’s home page. That is one
>>issue.

>>The CODOH web site was unplugged by the server at about midnight on July
>>3rd, for reasons that have not been provided. That is the second issue.

>Bullshit. It was unplugged because Smith, like the craven little liar he
>is, failed to live up to the terms of his agreement. And it wasn’t done
>without warning. And it had nothing to do with censorship. And you know
>that Mr. Thomas.

McFly, as with all holohuggers, lies, imagines, creates, any and every
reality he can to support not only this incredible and unfounded story
but also all the stories of his favorite holocaust.

And to think this man claims a half century of life on this planet.

It is people like this who vote Democrate.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 17:13:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49285 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!cdc2.cdc.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What are your views of Jews?
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:32 PM CDT 1996
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On 7 Jul 1996 13:15:50 GMT, [email protected] (Richard Schultz)
wrote:

>Alexander Baron ([email protected]) wrote:

>: This is typical Exterminationist sophistry; most people (including
>: Revisionists) don’t hate “the Jews” but they are utterly sick to death of
>: their whining and wailing.

>Are most people sick of the wailing of all Jews, some Jews, most Jews, or
>just the Organised [tm] ones? Is there a special Organised Jewry whining
>and wailing squadron?

Try www.wiesenthal.com for openers. It appears to be organized. Then
there is the USHMM which also appears organized. Then the ADL, JDL, you
get the idea.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 49303 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:05:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:06:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 11:22:06 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> Bullshit. It was unplugged because Smith, like the craven little liar
>> he is, failed to live up to the terms of his agreement. And it wasn’t
>> done without warning. And it had nothing to do with censorship. And
>> you know that Mr. Thomas.

>Gord, do you know this?

>If so, you know more than anyone else on this newsgroup seems to know,
>and I’d like to know where your information is from.

>If not — you’re trolling, and I don’t understand why.

Because he is a holohugger and all holohugger posts are trolls.

Is that so hard to understand?

The holohugger crap like “buna soup” inspires one to laugh at all jokes
about institutional food that are elevated from jokes to true faith.

He is someone you should condemn as a troll … but you never will save
for once or twice just to show you are objective.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 49307 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 960708: Bombardment
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:22:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:23:22 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1639 alt.revisionism:49307

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:40:23 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>I love the Zgrams that concern the net, because Ms. Rimland always
>manages to demonstrate her ignorance about the very medium she works in,
>to the amusement of all.

>[email protected] (E. Zundel Repost) wrote:

>> – and knowing that, in all likelihood, every word we write
>> gets stashed away somewhere in good old KGB style to be used in attempts
>> to hurt us later.

>Indeed — the good old KGB-style DejaNews can call up dozens of your
>Zuendelgrams to anyone who simply types in “E Zundel Repost” into the
>query box on their home page: http://www.dejanews.com/

>And in America! A supposedly free country! Who would have thought!

>> Additionally, last night the Zundelsite received some rather unpleasant
>> electronic bombardment. Somebody put us on some 70+ automatic listserves

>It’s pretty annoying, isn’t it, Ms. Rimland? Nizkor knows — we got hit
>by the same attack over six months ago, except we got 200 listservs
>instead of just 70:

It sounds like you are claiming responsibility for the retaliation.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 49318 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:21:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:23:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:07:29 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>The Gywer turkey is spreading his nonsense about breakfast again. It’s
>spamming which isn’t ethical, but then it’s Gywer
>Chuck

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:55 PDT 1996
Article: 49319 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:09:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:11:12 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:06:37, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>Different strokes for different folks. I don’t have any problem with a
>specific ISP deciding they don’t care to be associated with the likes of
>Bradley Smith, as I’m sure he’ll be able to find one who will. As long as he
>can — and from the number of bigoted websites out there, it’s clear that
>there are many, many ISPs who are not so fastidious — he’s not censored, but
>merely inconvenienced. Perhaps the folks who provide serviced for Stormfront,
>or Ronald Schoedel’s (former?) Christian Identity Online can serve his needs.

>The convenience of Bradley Smith and the whole CODOH gang isn’t very high on
>my list of important things in life.

Wherever the hell you come from, hopefully not the USA, your interest in
freedom of speech is not welcome in the USA. Go somewhere else.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49320 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Giwer defends himself with lies
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:15:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:16:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49320 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:156 alt.usenet.kooks:26727

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 20:22:22 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> I have been working from the materials on Nizkor and have posted them
>>hear as part of my posts on the subject. If you disagree with those on
>>Nizkor you should post the layouts you do agree with, with your posts.

>How about working on some real historical sources and presenting any support
>for the following idiotic claim:

It is good to see someone on the holohugger side trashing Nizkor and the
Gang of Six for a change.

I do agree with you, they are a worthless source.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 9 20:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49322 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What end serve Mr. Giwer’s spams?
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:24:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:25:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 19:30:32 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Nele Abels wrote:
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> > Anyone want to explain this one?
>>
>> No, no. How about explaining this:
>>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> […]
>> >>Race neutral? I’m sure this will be read with great astonishment by those
>> >>who are actually self-described Nazis, as well as anyone else who knows
>> >>anything about National Socialism and its history.
>>
>> Your silence is telling, Mr. Giwertroll. Come on, were is your evidence? I will consider
>> any silence as your admitting that you have been babbling on things you don’t know
>> anything about and will react accordingly.

>I believe a great deal of things are being admitted right now…

>Looks like Matt decamped. Pity. I was ready to reel him in yet again.

Your mother hated Jews and your father killed them with his one hands.

So what more do you want?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49360 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.randomc.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUL 3-4: 11.1% / 20%
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:16:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 2:17:56 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:157 alt.revisionism:49360

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 11:47:12 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> Articles from Matt Giwer: 49 (11.1%)

>Well, it looks like the Giwer is getting back to tolerable levels:
>twenty-five a day, or so.

>Is it time to declare the crisis over and try to get on with the
>discussions on this group as normal?

I apologize for my inadequacy.

The holohugging spamming has not abated.

I shall have to work harder.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:53:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:54:27 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 13:12:08 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 7 Jul 1996 06:36:15 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[email protected] writes:
>>>>
>>>>># Anyone want to explain this one?
>>>>
>>>>>[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]
>>>>
>>>>>Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden’s bombing?
>>>>>”Puddles of melted human flesh”? People who turned into an
>>>>>”undulating layer of fine gray ashes” although the fire
>>>>>didn’t even touch them? People “glowing red and orange”
>>>>>(also, although the fire didn’t even touch them)?
>>>>
>>>> Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden but no PHYSICAL
>>>>evidence of any form of mass extermination at Belsen.
>>
>>> Gosh, there is physical evidence of a burned Chicago. Guess it was
>>>firebombed.
>>
>> I have been over this territory before. You have not been paying
>>attention. There are records of the mission planning, the mission
>>briefings,

> Writing down testimony does not make it a document, remember? That
>was your response about the letter to Rauff.

> Perhaps you would like to quote from them where they say that the city
>would be firebombed, not just bombed? Got a reference? I thought not.

Sorry about that but it was announced in all the newspapers at the time
that the intention was to cause a firestorm and the announcement was
that it was successful. Made all the headlines. What have you missed?

> But even then, we would have to ask if this could not have been just a
>morbid sense of humor? Got a chain of custody for those mission records?

Yes.

>It is only one bombing mission out of many. It is an anomaly just as you
>say the Vergasungskeller memo was an anomaly. Are we not required to look
>for alternative explanations of anomalies like this? Have you done so?

You would attempt to compare literally thousands of mission records and
many press releases to one anomaly. You are playing a fools game.

>number reels of bomb site films associated with the mission,
>>before and after reconnaisance pictures with associated reel numbers
>>related to the mission. There are inventory records of the bombs
>>assigned to the mission.
>>
>> All of it points to the smoking gun, physical evidence of aerial
>>bombardment.
>>
>> Now where were you when I recited the above last time? Bad news feed?

> Whee, there was aerial bombardment of many cities. If mission records
>of bombings are sufficient evidence of firebombing, then every city in
>Europe had a Dresden-style barbecue, obviously.

> Mrs. O’Schmidt’s cow is looking guiltier all the time.

You are playing a fool’s game which you should not have started.

You have cider in your eye.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49367 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Christians ‘take it like a man’
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:35:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:36:25 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 96 12:36:13 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> But in comparison you will not the difference between my articles on the
>>homosexual encounter of Jesus and the multiple idols of the Israelites
>>you will see the same thing. The former gets zero response. The latter
>>garners all kinds of accusations.

>Bah, beides alte Hüte…but know that you talk about “zero response”:

>>: [email protected] wrote:
>>:
>>: > As to what national socialism is, I have posted remarks directly from
>>: > Hitler on that subject. It is a practical form of Marxism divorced from
>>: > democracy and direct government ownership as it must be in order to
>>: > work. It is race neutral.

>I’ve been waiting for days now. When will Mr. Giwer cough up some evidence for this
>ridiculous and ignorant claim. Or has he _again_ been babbling about things he doesn’t
>know anything about?

You are a self proclaimed German.

You and / or your parents were responsible for murdering Jews.

Why do you not admit your guilt and get it over with?

Perhaps you could kill yourself in atonement for the evils of your
parents. It would be the least you could do.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49375 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:59:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:01:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 96 17:04:11 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> You are trying a fool’s game and not answering the mail.

>Funny that you mention it. Would you mind stopping your fool’s game and answer this
>teeny-weeny question:

>Where in national socialist writings did you find the basis for your claim that the Nazis
>were not racist?

As a German whose parents wanted to murder all Jews you have little room
to ask such questions.

Your parents were murders as were your grandparents and you have no room
to talk until you apologize for their murders before this group and to
tell us all that you have accused them of being murderers to their
faces.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:31 PDT 1996
Article: 49376 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:25:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:34:10 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>What
>> the hell, even if they did, the Jews don’t want 250,000 individual acts
>> of life saving heroism even remembered. So much for your family of
>> fools.

>So a major movie producer makes Schindler’s List? Hint – he wasn’t
>Buddhist.

No, he is a Jew. What is your point? And he need an Academy Award
where the politics of Hollywood will not give an AW to who simplly
pander to us rabble and make the most successful movies in history.

Beyond that, what is your question?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:32 PDT 1996
Article: 49377 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:15:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># I have pointed to the available physical evidence that
># does not need one word of testimony to support the event.

>Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
>But you must know that.

You know it does not.

There is not one picture of anyone on the roof of any building much less
pouring in anything. But you know that.

There is not one picture of any result from any “gas chamber” when
opened but you know that.

There is sworn testimony of flesh and clothing forming gelatinous masses
after exposure to HCN but you know that.

Your fucking mass gassing is a sham and you DO know that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:33 PDT 1996
Article: 49381 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:08:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Jul 1996 23:16:57 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Ken McVay believes he can buy his way into the tribe and has yet
> to realize there is no way to do so.

>Mr. Giwer believes he can provoke Mr. McVay with his vile insults and
>has yet to realize there is no way to do so.

McVay is a self aggrandizing fool who permits hired underlings to speak
for him while he refuses to speak for himself.

I can not change that. You can not change that.

Only he can change that.

Get used to it.

He is a hind tit on the belly of the internet. His flunkies defend him
while he pretends to hide behind a killfile.

Get used to the asshole you are defending some day.

He is an asshole and he has to “co” flunkies who pretend to speak out of
his ass.

Get over it.

And get used to it.

He is not a clone, he is a clown.

He gets all the respect a clown is due.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:34 PDT 1996
Article: 49383 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:42:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 02:12:32 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> Nice try but It is quite clear that I am talking about your mass
>> extermination by gassing facilities within the camps.

> Unfortunately that is exactly what the evidence you demand cannot
>demonstrate. It simply has little relevance to what you are disputing.

> –YFE

This is amazing.

An attorney admitting that the fundamental standards of evidence
required in a capital crime can not be produced because it never
existed.

It is amazing because he is a holohugger and knows that his beliefs do
not match the standards of his profession.

This is truly amazing.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:34 PDT 1996
Article: 49385 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:21:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 14:33:12 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> You are pretending to what you do not know and are becoming a holohugger
>> with each succeeding post.

>Please try to debate, Matt. Remember – if you succeed in getting me mad,
>all you’ll accomplish is getting me mad – and losing the war. Believe
>it! When I get mad, I *REALLY* go after somebody. I just got annoyed at
>Dahlman and see what I did.

Please assume that I have gotten you really mad and

1) pulicize what you are going to do

and

2) do it.

and as a minor third

Please tell me why I should give a damn.

And I know how to finger NIC.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:35 PDT 1996
Article: 49390 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Msgic ERCO
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:15:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Is it not good?

The holohuggers can invoke the term ERCO and claim that it was both a
dessicant and blue at the same time?

And in all of that, the holohuggers can NOT produce one document as to
what ERCO is or what its color might be.

Sounds very much like ERCO is Erkel some inane network sitcom.

The holohuggers are all idiots.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49392 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:03:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:09:17 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> >If the jews had not been born, the world would not be as advanced as it is
>> >today. I believe there should be a single day every year in which jews
>> >should be honored. I honor jews every day, period. If all races were this
>> >productive and this responsible for their actions and for the rights of
>> >others, we would not have racial hatred, high crime, or irresponsibility
>> >by members of certain groups. Racial conflict would be at a new all time
>> >low. There would be no reason to hate, only to love.
>>
>> From the people who gave genocide to the world.

>Could you prove that, please?

>Thank you.

>Walt.

Read your fucking bible, idiot.

It is all recorded there.

What in the hell are you doing here without the slightest grouding in
the subject under discussion?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49395 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:53:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Jul 1996 23:34:51 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:14:30 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 00:30:54 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> It was precisely this matter that my skepticism about the gassing. I
>>>> >> had no idea what gas was used. I had only heard about gassing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But I had heard of the times involved and nerve gas appeared to the
>>>> >> likely agent.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When it turned out to be plain old cyanide the entire house of cards
>>>> >> collapsed.
>>>>
>>>> >Tabun was the first dedicated nerve agent, the second, Sarin, only
>>>> >having been produced in test quantities and the third, Soman, was in
>>>> >developement when the material was seized by the Soviets who were the first
>>>> >to actually produce it. Tabun, Sarin and Soman have the NATO codenames
>>>> >GA, GB and GD. Sarin was NATO’s standard nerve agent until the developement
>>>> >of the V series nerve gasses.
>>>>
>>>> >They were developed from insecticides and work by blocking
>>>> >neurotransmitters, essentially causing the nervous system to simply shut
>>>> >down and the body to die. Field antidote is usually atropine which causes
>>>> >neurotransmitter release to increase, hopefully more than the nerve agent
>>>> >can block.
>>>>
>>>> You fail to make any points here.
>>
>>>I am providing background information so that the reader may render
>>>a somewhat informed judgement on the topic. I’m well aware that putting
>>>things in context and providing information is a foreign concept to
>>>you, but I have no hope of ever making you acknowledge anything.
>>
>>
>>>> >Sarin has a very low natural detoxification level, thus can build up in the
>>>> >body to fatal levels. It is persistant in enclosed structures and the
>>>> >recommended method of decontamination is by chemical treatment or live steam
>>>> >to accelerate the natural breakdown. Left by itself it may last in
>>>> >significant concentrations for several days and also is denser than air,
>>>> >thus may tend to concentrate in low places (like cellars).
>>>>
>>>> >Field use requires full protective gear (gas mask and enclosed sealed suit).
>>>>
>>>> >Reasons Sarin might be used in a gas chamber:
>>>>
>>>> > Deadly as all hell (faster than Zyklon B, less concentration required)
>>>>
>>>> > Exposure to skin and inhalation both possibly fatal (Zyklon B usually
>>>> > only fatal after inhalation)
>>>>
>>>> >Reasons Sarin would be impractical in a gas chamber:
>>>>
>>>> > Full protective gear required by operators of chamber
>>>>
>>>> > -Zyklon B requires gas mask and gloves
>>>>
>>>> Save that the reported times to death are on the same order as those
>>>> reported for HCN. I have read reports of everything from instantaneous
>>>> to two days. They accumulate around 10-20 minutes. That is nerve gas.
>>>>
>>>> I can not change that.
>>
>>>Nor can I change the fact that you so blatently omitted the subsequent reasons
>>>I posted as to why Zyklon B would be a technically and operationally better
>>>agent than a nerve agent such as Sarin. Why don’t you puzzle those reasons
>>>out for a while and then get back to me when you actually have something
>>>interesting to say other than insipid comments and non-sequitors?
>>
>> I made one point, that the time frame for HCN deaths were on the same
>>order as nerve gas. You went on to repeat a canned answer to something
>>I did not address. At no time did I state that nerve gas would have
>>been a better choice.
>>
>> So how much did you want left in? The point is very simple. The time
>>frame for death from breathing cyanide and from nerve gas (and from
>>carbon monoxide for that matter) are all reported to be approximately
>>the same by the eyewitnesses.
>>
>> The point I was making, which has NOTHING whatever to do with “why
>>didn’t they use nerve gas?,” is that finding HCN in the same time frame
>>as nerve gas was my first serious indication that there was something
>>wrong with the stories based upon my assumption that that it had been
>>nerve gas.
>>
>> To go further, it was later finding CO deaths on the same order as HCN
>>and nerve gas that indicated there was something seriously wrong with
>>the stories.
>>
>> Now if you would like to address the point I am making, please do so.

> The only thing I see wrong here is with your ability to read,
>understand, and evaluate what you read. Zyklon will vary depending on
>room size, concentration, and temperature. Witnesses will vary in their
>estimates of times. Only a very stupid person would not take into
>consideration these very simple points. You are not taking these very
>simple points into consideration. The conclusion is left as exercise to
>the reader.

Sorry but the variations are from instantanious to two days with a
second application and you know that. You have read all the crap about
the kill times here.

You also know that the time to death in the majority of the “eyewitness”
testimonies vary from 10 to 20 minutes for both HCN and CO period, no
questions asked.

That makes them both equally lethal and you know that.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49400 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:28:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 02:31:36 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>> As there is no recorded Israelite migration into the areas that were
>> beyond the influence of the Roman Empire where the Eastern European Jews
>> appear to have come from, it is unclear what objection you might have.

> That is incorrect. In fact, one of the problems of Roman politics in the
>east was the influence of Jews in the Parthian Empire.

Self-aggrandizement was the worst problem the Romans faced.

Babylon had stomped them into the earth. The Alexander came along and
did it again.

And then Rome came along and did it again and again and again.

Israel has never been more than a genocidal territory in the middle east
and of no concern for any rational person.

Sorry about that but I read your “bible” which alternately exists and
does not exist.

Jews have the earliest recorded tradition of genocide.

Fuck you too and the horse you rode in one.

I am sick of the whining.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49402 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:58:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:16:28 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
># under oath that he had seen “fourteen foot flames” shooting out
># of the chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz,

>Mike Stein had a long talk with a crematory operator. The guy
>said that this is a known phenomena, which even has a name
>(“candle”).

He admitted he lied under oath.

What more do you want?

># and that he was able to tell whether the Nazis were burning fat
># Jewish Hungarians or skinny Jewish Poles by looking at the different
># colors of the smoke and flames coming out of the crematorium.

>Yes. Can you prove to us, or convince us, that this is indeed
>impossible? Namely, that burning fat may result in a different
>type of smoke and smell compared to burning flesh? I admit that
>I don’t know. But how do you know it’s impossible?

He admitted he lied under oath.

What more do you want?

># On cross-examination, however, Mr. Friedman reversed himself upon
># being presented with details of crematorium operation, and was
># forced to agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in
># crematoria buildings.

>This, my 163-IQ-man, is a *revisionist interpretation*. Quote the
>whole, accurate text of his testimony.

>What do you think the crematoria was built for? Heck, even you
>crazed “revisionists” don’t deny Jews were cremated in the
>crematorium furnaces.

He admitted he lied under oath.

What more do you want?

># Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that
># his entire testimony was based on what he had been told
># by others.

>Again, bring the *exact and complete* text of what he said.

He admitted he lied under oath.

What more do you want?

>-Danny Keren.

>–
>In Message-ID: <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer
>suggested that documents about a “gas chamber” and “gassing cellar”
>in the Birkenau crematoriums didn’t count, as they were really due
>to “a morbid sense of humor” of the SS men who authored the documents.

He admitted he lied under oath.

What more do you want?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49403 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:43:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 12:46:57 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>>>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>
>>>> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.
>>>>
>>>> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>>>> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>>>> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>>>> course.
>>
>>>On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit
>>>by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike?
>>
>> Did god provide the bomb sight films?

> Who put the caption on the films? How do you know what town is down
>there? Is there some sort of big sign like there is in Hollywood, saying
>”Dresden?”

You are playing games. Official records of reel nunbers assigned to
particular operations exist.

> And of course we would also have to ask if the films show the
>firestorm allegedly caused by that bombing, or whether even if they do it
>indicates a true causal connection rather than a coincidence involving
>Mrs. O’Schmidt’s cow.

> Then of course we must ask if there is a documented chain of custody
>on those films.

> And what _were_ Steven Spielberg and the KGB doing on the day those
>films were made, hmn?

> So when are you going to get around to providing physical evidence of
>this alleged allied firebombing of Dresden? I see none.

Sorry, Stone, you have made a terrible case. Were there the slightest
fraction of the documentation of mass extermination gassing as there is
for Dresden, you folks would trot it out and make it squeal.

But you folks have no such trail of physical evidence.

I have outlined exactly what is equivalent but you folks can not find
even one picture of anyone on a roof much less pouring anything into a
hole. You folks can not find a single picture of the results of
gassing while people are inside the “chamber” much less anything more
seriously incriminating. And despite all of this the best you can
provide is what you consider “equally damning” pictures of people in
separate lines.

Give it up. You don’t have jack.

You are trying to play a game without a full deck.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49404 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:40:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:35:22 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:

># It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former
># professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever
># the case may be,

>Ah, that old inferiority complex kicks in. Perhaps you’ll
>clarify your statement about me being an “impersonating professor”?

Of course, attack the messenger, not the message.

It is so much easier.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49406 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rampant Irony Deficiency Alert
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:56:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 16:41:49 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 06:58:59 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>: >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>: >>
>: >> Nice try, fatbroad.
>:
>: >Mr. Giwer continues to show respect for those with differing opinions.
>:
>: What is your problem, Schwartze?
>:
>: Are you as fat as she is?

>Mr. Giwer continues to demonstrate his devotion to rational, invective-
>free argument.

That is the way it goes.

You have a bitch hiding behind female immunity and men like you trying
to earn points to screw her should you be in her part of the world.

This is really very transparent.

We live in a sex neutral world.

Sorry about that.

Grow up and learn what is going on.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:41 PDT 1996
Article: 49407 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:01:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 20:25:00 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>> I see, a 14 year old was considering publication and knew how to make
>> publication worthy changes. The more you folks defend this, the more is
>> smells.

>Why is this difficult to believe? Anne Frank wrote a stirring account of
>life in hiding during a terrible time. Her father encouraged her to edit
>it for possible publication after the War.

You brain dead idiot. This is a 14 year old you are extoling.

>I see absolutely no reason why any thinking human being would not believe this.
> Oh, that’s right.

Of course, such literary talent from a 14 year oid. Love it.

Yuo are truly a fool.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:42 PDT 1996
Article: 49409 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:23:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:58:51 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>> Um, pardon my skepticism, but I don’t trust the Troll’s word as far as I
>> can spit. He has, in the past, claimed a many great number of things. Most
>> (if not nearly all) inevevitably were exposed as lies and/or stupidities
>> on the Troll’s part. He has no credibility whatsoever in my book.

>I assume you’re talking about Giwer.

>> I do not
>> except anything from him as submissible for discussion.

>Hm, that would parse either as “accept” or “except,” depending on what
>you mean by “submissible for discussion.” Did you mean “accept”?

>> Here is the quote from the Nizkor archive, which references the
>> Breitweiser story. I don’t know whether in context the quote comes from
>> Conot or Naumann,

>Are we talking about Giwer’s submission, the one immortalized by
>Greg Raven at ?

>If so — the discrepancies are mostly due to Conot giving a “liberal”
>reading of Naumann which misinterprets him on several points. Giwer
>contrasts the Naumann-through-Conot description with the various other
>descriptions given in the Nizkor Auschwitz FAQ, and (no surprise) finds
>several minor discrepancies, which he trumpets loudly.

>If one goes back to Naumann and reads the original, all the major
>discrepancies disappear, which is a serious defeat for the Giwer/Raven
>team of course — hey, the disparate stories _do_ match up, I wonder
>why that is? I’m going to do them a favor and Cc Raven a copy of this
>posting in email and let him stew about what to do about that page for
>a few days before I post what I have of Naumann.

If nothing else, this post of yours has motivated me to produce a
version with the three different rather the two different presented in
that web page. I will certainly find a was to cleanly present the
version where Hoess is watching it happen wearing a gas mask and death
is instantaneous.

You are a fucking fool to play this game with me.

And you holohuggers give me all the information I need.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:42 PDT 1996
Article: 49410 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH – A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:32:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 01:18:46 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:

>> Inspite of the Jews trying to imply prominence in the American
>> Revolution (Cal.Gov. Pete Wilson as a Senator tried to introduce a
>> bill to erect a statue to some remote Revolutionary character said to
>> have been Jewish, boastings that some guy named Solomon from Philly
>> financed the war, and machinations of Paul Reveres commanding officer
>> being Jewish) the Jews role in the American Revolution was of such an
>> extent it doesn’t merit mention.

> Jews served in and supported the American Revolution. In fact a far
>larger proportion of Jews served in the Continental Line than non-Jews (about
>10% of the total Jewish population). Had there been more in the United States,
>Washington would have most grateful. Haym Salomen’s contribution to the
>financing of the American Revolution is well-known. While his financial
>contribution may be over-stated to compensate for other contributions that polite
>people did not mention in that era, he is hardly a remote figure. But since you use
>the name “Solomon” and refer to Philadelphia you are, no doubt referring to Lt.
>Col. Solomon Bush, commander of the Thrid Regiment of Philadelphia
>Associators. This fine patriot received a disabling wound — that later caused his
>death — protecting the rear guard of the Continental army at the battle of
>Brandywine.

>> The two little books mentioned are the “O.T.” including the Torah
>> and the wicked Talmud.

> Your bigotry is showing again, you lousy Jew-hating chucnk of bovine
>defecation.

Minor question, which of the signers of the DOI was Jewish?

Another minor question, what are the names of the “jews” who were
against the revolution and what did they do?

Excuse me but that second question must have been too hard a question.
Would you like to try to rephrase it and answer in your own clever way?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 06:53:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49416 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:32:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
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On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:50:41 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

> Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would
>have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn’t for them
>being barred from trade unions.

>>As to the statement, ‘One could wonder what ratio of “artisans” he
>>(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.’
>>
>> Danny Mittleman, staunch defender of anything Holocaust story responed:
>> “I don’t know. I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
>>reasons:
>> One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
>>unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
>>fields. And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
>>College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
>>education levels.”

> And Yehuda Bauer says the Jews were responsible for the trade
>unions.

>>VIII (a). According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, “A
>>History of the Holocaust”:
>> “The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large
>>measure to the leadership of it’s many Jewish members.”

> One should expect a ‘creative’ excuse should be forth coming.

All truths are true when it comes to jewish mythology.

It is antisemitic to compare truths and ask which is lying.

You are being most unpleasant.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:10:59 PDT 1996
Article: 49418 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:51:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
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On 9 Jul 1996 02:09:57 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>> A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

> I take it that you are actively campaigning for the release of Mumia.

Never heard of the person but I have no particular interest in the
notion LHO acted alone either.

>> How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
>> soon as the doors are opened? How about about a long line of people
>> carrying bodies out of a building? How about a picture of someone
>> pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?

>> How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that
>corresponds
>> to the “testimony” but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
>> that do not indicate a cause of death? How a significant fraction of
>> those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?

> To what end? The presence of bones would not prove gassing — and
>that is what you claim to be disputing.

Purposeful mis-reading will get you nowhere.

I was referring to hundreds of bodies in a room immediately after the
gassing as you well know.

You may be a settlement attorney but you are not that bright outside you
field.

>> And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
>> needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
>> that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
>> the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
>> being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

> I believe that such orders do exist. Most of the extant pictures that I
>know of were taken in contravention to specific orders.

Your belief is not the issue. The lack of such orders is the issue.

And any claim that the existing pictures are “damning” has to explain
why they were not prohibited.

But of course you have no such explanation. You are a holohugger and
only have your beliefs to sustain you through life. It must be pitiful,
the way you live.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:00 PDT 1996
Article: 49419 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:53:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 02:09:57 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
>> physical evidence. It appears quite obvious to me.

> What you are asking for is a shooting gallery for any competent defense
>lawyer. You have indicated that you were a watcher of the O.J. trial.

Actually I indicated that I avoided it as much as possible. But then
you holohuggers have no interest in the truth in any venue.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:01 PDT 1996
Article: 49422 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Genocide
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:06:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.

It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
history.

Do not believe me.

Read your fine bible.

Then get back to me.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:01 PDT 1996
Article: 49423 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They don’t call Giwer the cotrol for nothing!’
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:07:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On Tue, 09 Jul 96 12:32:13 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> It is unclear what a schwarte is doing pointing here.

>It is unclear what you are doing at your computer. You should be in a library
>trying to finde some prove for this:

>>: [email protected] wrote:
>>:
>>: > As to what national socialism is, I have posted remarks directly from
>>: > Hitler on that subject. It is a practical form of Marxism divorced from
>>: > democracy and direct government ownership as it must be in order to
>>: > work. It is race neutral.

>I’ve been waiting for days now. When will Mr. Giwer cough up some evidence for this
>ridiculous and ignorant claim. Or has he _again_ been babbling about things he doesn’t
>know anything about?

Considering your parents murdered Jews it is unclear what you are doing
in this NG.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49424 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionism Defined
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:18:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 8 Jul 1996 21:07:09 -0400, [email protected] (SF924) wrote:

>Mr Hagen:

>Your remarks during this string have been very thoughtful. I don’t
>believe in burning heretics either. I will defend with my life your right
>to believe anything you want. You have no obligation to accept anything
>as true or false.

>But you have to come to grips with a very serious fact: no historian or
>academic, who is not also pushing a neo-Nazi or similar agenda, seems to
>support your position. The only people who seem to support your position
>are those persons with a strong political or personal bias either to
>rehabilitate Nazism, Hitler or facism or denounce its victims, i.e. Jews
>and other lesser races. Much of the recvisionist thinking plays on
>earlier Nazi-style propoganda: i.e. the Jews control the world.

>Until serious mainstream academics come to support your position, your
>position will be viewed as part of the lunatic fringe, and justifiably so.

Excuse me sir. Mainstreme Acedemisians put their pants on one leg at a
time just like the rest of us and have to achieve the same standards as
anyone else in what they say.

Anyone in the least familiar with academic politics (as in any other
power structure) knows that any position/title/chair is a bureaucratic
piece if shit.

I really (do not) hate to bust your bubble here but your blind
acceptance of such nonsense is almost embarraissing.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49425 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At last it can be told
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:12:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 12:33:31 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>> Civilized means, among other things, countries that do not permit ex
>>post facto laws to be enacted.

> Last time I looked, begging the question was also a fallacy.

> To what objective standard of “civilized” do you appeal? Where does
>it say that there is no distinction between making an act criminal ex post
>facto, and adding a penalty for an act clearly illegal before the act was
>committed?

> US law prohibits both, but if you are holding up US law as an
>objective standard of civilization then you must explain why those who
>call US law uncivilized due to its permission of the death penalty are
>wrong.

US law is civilization, fool.

The US is the world at this point in history.

If you do not understand that then you have no understanding of either
the past or the present.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49427 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No gas chamber in the old reich, sorry!
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:36:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]ron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
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On Mon, 08 Jul 96 21:43:48 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article
> [email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:

>> Oh, yes, Al, I seem to remember you bad-mouthing Blaha. And Bendal, and
>> Nyiszli, and Hart, and….

>Blaha was a transparent liar, Bendel a fantasist, Nyiszli did not give evidence
>anywhere and Hart’s ghost written book is not worth the paper it is printed on.
>>
>> Al, it seems like you have this seedy habit of bad-mouthing any eyewitness
>> to Nazi atrocities at the drop of a hat. Needless to say, you have not
>> provided any rational argument for, nor substantive rebuttal against, such
>> testimonies.

>I have indeed provided substantive refutations, certainly of Hart. Ask Mike
>Stein about my analysis in my “tribute” to Britain’s police.

>> >I notice that Mr Giwer’s constant reposts of the Dachau
>> > quote from the IMT has been methodically ignored. Like all the evidence that
>> > refutes your officially sanctioned lies.
>>
>> Maybe that’s because the Troll is being ignored because he is an
>> unmitigated liar and a fraud? That his rants aren’t even worth paying
>> attention to because they are so insane? Perhaps you should take note, Al?

>Whatever you think of Mr Giwer – and I think he is a showman rather than an
>anti-Semite – you have still ignored his documentation of the Dachau nonsense.
>Ideology first, truth second with you boys all the time.

Whatever I may or may not be there is no equivalent “gang of six” to be
found on any website in the world as there is for Nizkor.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 08:11:05 PDT 1996
Article: 49429 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:44:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 2:46:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

You have identified me as a troll.

Sorry abut that but this conference is a not a troll but a “take no
prisoners” game.

You truly need to change your response to me or you are going to fall
into the holohugger mold.

You will also agree one more time that you have claimed to be into wet
work for the Mossad.

Murders have their attractions but not liars.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:55 PDT 1996
Article: 49434 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:30:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 3:31:54 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 01:50:06 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? Or the
>> hollow two inch nails to get between the ribs?

> Any good medical supply house. I have no idea where the nazis
>*actually* got them but syringes that size are standard equipment for a veternarian
>dealing with large animals. Considering that the Wehrmacht was still using horses
>for some purposes and the ToO of a medical battalion still included veternarians,
>they probably had them in supply.

> –YFE

But do not forget, killfiled idiot, that no one thought in any manner
unusual at the time they were used.

You are truly a fool.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49442 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: You TOO can pump gas, just like Ken McVay GSA!
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected] <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:22 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:60405 alt.conspiracy:65897 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25022 alt.politics.white-power:35703 alt.radio.talk:11987 alt.revisionism:49442

On 4 Jul 1996 20:19:31 GMT, [email protected] (Brendan J. F.
Scallon) wrote:

>Ronald C. Schoedel ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Prove it, Gourdo. I have never lived in a trailer park. Put up
>: or shut up.

>You did not live in that trailer park off the Ohio Turnpike with all
>those Stars and Bars flags?

Which is the “Ohio Turnpike”?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:57 PDT 1996
Article: 49443 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:55:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 1:57:26 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:31:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Evidence of that was posted here in the “greater part of”
># technical report on it, noting that “greater part of” is a
># technical term for “half of” in english

>Excuse me? “Greater part” means “half”? Does the greater
>part of English speakers agree to this?

># indicating an exponentially decaying release. That
># post lead to 6-12 hours as the 99% release time.

>No, the article specifically noted that, even at below zero
>temperatures, there was no residue of HCN after “an hour, or
>at most two”.

Not only was it your post, but you are lying about it.

SOP for a holohugger.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:57 PDT 1996
Article: 49449 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Well designed mass gassing chambers
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:13 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:23:17 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Jul 1996 12:32:13 -0700, [email protected] (Richard
>>James Green) wrote:

>>>Mr. Ehrlich,

>>>Your defense of Matt Giwer is simply appalling. I find it hard to
>>>believe that any reasonable person of goodwill could make the statements
>>>that you’ve made about Matt Giwer. Luckily, your statements about Matt
>>>Giwer are on file at Nizkor.

>> What is “lucky” about that? Please explain.

>Giwer-troll, you could try reading the paragraph you cited. Try to
>stretch your attention span to a full minute.

I am certain the gentleman does not need a foolish little girl such as
yourself to speak for him.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49450 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:15 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:45:59 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Good only Overtaken By Events shows up only to post the slurs while his
>>dumbass flunkies he has permitted to call themselves “co-webmasters”
>>pretend to speak for Nizkor when in fact they are only self-aggrandizing
>>flunkies.

>He’s the right one to talk about “self-aggrandizing flunkies”, isn’t he?

And just who do you think I am beholding to in life?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:59 PDT 1996
Article: 49451 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:03 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
>>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>> Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other
>>>threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her
>>>ongoing alt.rev. dossier “The Best of Nizkor”, she comes out and
>>>pastes her own.
>>
>>Hmmm … very interesting Mr. Moran. I suppose you think I must be
>>absolutely *crushed* by your characterization of my posting behaviour.
>>Well, I’m really sorry to disappoint you, but I rather think that your
>>comments, insults and “descriptions” tell us _far_ more about _you_
>>and _your_ abilities (or lack thereof) than they do about me or mine.

> This is absolutely poetic. Here we have a post dedicated as a
>repository for her comments and insults and she comes back with a
>hidious complaint about it by referring to comment on her stuff as
>”insults”.

> IDIOT.

Now that is an insult to idiots.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:39:59 PDT 1996
Article: 49452 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazis NOT racist NOR antisemitic!
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:18:13 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

> wrote:
>>Here is what a certain A. HItler has to say on
>>the matter. The text may be found on pages 190-193
>>of Detlev Claussen’s book:
>>
>>”Vom Judenhass zum Antisemitismus
>>Materialien einer verleugneten Geschichte”

>[An essay in which Hitler explains “rational” racism snipped]

>Quotations like this are countless. Giwer’s claim that national socialism was
>is not racist is inane and shows only his complete ignorance towards matters
>historical.

Your restatement of what I said is not relevant.

You continuing deliberate confusion is indentifying a political party
with everything it stands for.

National Socialism is exactly what I said it was and was a minor
variation upon Fascism which was Marxism with government control of
private ownership.

You reasoning is as follows. Liberalism supports a welfare state and is
pro-abortion therefore the welfare state is pro-abortion.

I would suggest you consider pursuing a degree worth having instead of
what you are presently wasting your money upon.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:40:00 PDT 1996
Article: 49462 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Alec Grynspan
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:33:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 2:35:11 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:21:58 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because iron bombs would have had to destroy everything in sight in
>> order to get those four buildings.

>Killing enemy soldiers and civilians who are murdering innocent victims
>and the victims who were being killed as it was?

>Not everything in sight, Matt. Just that block.

Sorry about the presumed congenial phone conversations. You have pushed
it over the line.

Remember the above.

That is the new battle line.

Given that you are agreeing that iron bombs can not do what you claim
was requested.

Any more stupid shit out of you?

From [email protected] Wed Jul 10 12:40:01 PDT 1996
Article: 49468 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.fibr.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:44:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:45:44 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:23:20 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>[…]

>Mr. Giwer, you have a thread left unattended:

>>: [email protected] wrote:
>>:
>>: > As to what national socialism is, I have posted remarks directly from
>>: > Hitler on that subject. It is a practical form of Marxism divorced from
>>: > democracy and direct government ownership as it must be in order to
>>: > work. It is race neutral.

>When can you finally be bothered with presenting any evidence supporting this
>ridiculous and completely ignorant claim?

Do not forget, you are one of the murderous Germans who participated in
the extermination of the Jews. No matter what you post here will not
absolve you of your guilt.

And if you want to say you were were not born at the time, then your
parents were the murders you are talking about.

You are the descendant of murderers. Your father, your mother, your
uncles and your aunts. All of them murders. They all knew what was
going on. They all turned in Jews.

You familly is a disgrace.

That is, if you believe all of this nonsense.

But, supply your favorite “excuse” to say they were not involved.
Certainly they saved Jews. Did not EVERYONE save Jews these days? What
the hell, even if they did, the Jews don’t want 250,000 individual acts
of life saving heroism even remembered. So much for your family of
fools.

But your parents told you this crap and you believe them. Guess what?
They were most likely loyal Nazis.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:33 PDT 1996
Article: 49513 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: total lack of perspective exemplified
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:19:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 7:21:12 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 06:42 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

> I don’t think there is any data available to support this assertion of
> yours, and your assertion runs counter to what is intuitive to me.

> Young people in general have little knowledge of historical events 50
> years ago. If you ask them who was president 50 years ago, I suspect
> less than 20% of the college students in the country would get it
> correct. (Marty or someone, could you take a small poll in your class
> and see what happens?)

> Surely those youths who happened to see Schindler’s List have a visual
> image of the Holocaust, but that is just a snapshot. I’d be very
> surprised if you could show me that more than 5% of today’s college
> students could name more than one concentration camp, or could
> breakdown death totals into Jewish and non-Jewish correctly, or could
> breakdown camp and non-camp deaths correctly. Whatever picture exists,
> I suggest, is a very shallow picture.

At a time when 5% of college students would be hard pressed to name the
major countries involved in WW II, this nerfbrain thinks that a bit of
historical trivia like his holocaust is of some particular significance.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:33 PDT 1996
Article: 49514 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS allegedly SHUT DOWN, but might not have been
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:50:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 5:51:49 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 9 Jul 1996 22:40:32 -0400, [email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

>Rich Graves wrote:

>>I certainly agree that even 36 hours with no clear communication of what
>>the problem is is unacceptable. I would *assume* that an explanation or
>>apology will be forthcoming on Monday.

>It’s Tuesday now, and no contact from ProtoSource. Horowitz’s comments to
>Bradley on Friday seemed fairly final (after I got more details of what
>was said). He all but said that it was a content based decision.
>Checking further with others reveals that there had been several
>complaints to Valleynet about content. Go figure.

Of course no one here would ever make any complaints against any
website.

I find their sanctimony charming.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:34 PDT 1996
Article: 49526 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:09:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 6:10:40 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:48:56 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:34:10 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >What
>> >> the hell, even if they did, the Jews don’t want 250,000 individual acts
>> >> of life saving heroism even remembered. So much for your family of
>> >> fools.
>>
>> >So a major movie producer makes Schindler’s List? Hint – he wasn’t
>> >Buddhist.
>>
>> No, he is a Jew. What is your point? And he need an Academy Award
>> where the politics of Hollywood will not give an AW to who simplly
>> pander to us rabble and make the most successful movies in history.
>>
>> Beyond that, what is your question?

>Read What you wrote. Then Read what I wrote. Then see how inane your
>response is.

>Don’t bother coming back to Debate.

I was not aware you had any say in the matter. LSG and I are still on
cordial terms.

>Your personal attacks won’t be
>tolerated there and with your current level of skill you’d have an even
>harder time surviving any debate there.

To quote someone who knew him rather well.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Widow says SHINDLER’s list a lie
From: [email protected] (M Huber)
Date: 11 May 1996 11:32:37 GMT

Date: Thursday, 09-May-96 02:30 PM

From: E. Zundel \ Internet: ([email protected])
Subject: Shindler’s wife asserts film is a lie.

The widow of Oscar Shindler, about whom Steven spielberg mad a movie,
decries the film as a hoax and a lie.

“Emilie Pelzl Schindler, the ex-wife of Oscar Schindler, whose story is
told in the movie _Shindler’s List_, asserts that the events told about
in the film were deformed and that her husband never wrote the famous
list of Jews to be saved from Auschwitz.

In a book of recollections, _Memoirs_, introduced to the press in Buenos

Aires, Emilie Pelzl Schindler, a Czech citizen and now 89 years old,
indicates that her ex-husband never went to Auschwitz and that he could
never have saved the 1,300 Jews whose salvation is attributed to him.

The famous list would not have been written by her husband, but by a
certain “Goldfman” (sic). Factually, nobody even knows what became of
the Jews inscribed on that list.

=====

But it makes a nice fantasy for adults to believe in. I found the
ending sort of “touching.” “Why don’t you build a home right here?” or
however it was phrased.

That leaves us with 249,999 individual acts of heroism.

Now, getting back to the USHMM teaching guidelines for the holocaust
advising that these acts of heroism not be given much attention because
there were only 249,999 of them …

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:35 PDT 1996
Article: 49531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N’burg
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:58:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 15:32:24 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes for the Gywer:

>Get what up?

>Don’t forget, your wrinkled old skinny ass belongs to me, pal!
>Chuck

Kinky but I don’t go that way.

Has that court order prohibiting you from being alone with your
grandchildren still in effect?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49534 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The PSNW “contract”
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:43:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 182
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 7:44:51 PM CDT 1996
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From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Seven Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 4)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:13:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 6:15:01 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49539 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:159 alt.usenet.kooks:26805

On 9 Jul 1996 16:24:44 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>>>Archive/File: people/g/giwer.matt/giwer-10q
>>>Last-Modified: 1996/06/27
>>
>>>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility
>>> of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)
>>
>>>Question 1 [February 1996]
>>>————————–
>>
>> When I do it, it is span. When the Nizkor itself does it, it is not …

> Quite right. There is an agreed-upon, content-neutral definition of
>spam within the Usenet community which was formulated in response to “Make
>Money Fast!” and other massively posted/crossposted articles before you
>arrived here and started spamming. Your posting pattern meets this
>definition. Nizkor’s does not, nor does Dr. Keren’s. Deal with it.

> Congratulations, you have made a completely true statement. Do that
>all the time, and people will stop calling you a lying troll. It is that
>simple. Then you can work on your reading comprehension. When you can
>figure out how long the screaming went on, and which buildings had which
>features and what names, maybe you’ll have a chance of making an
>intelligent contribution to the discussions here.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Widow says SHINDLER’s list a lie
From: [email protected] (M Huber)
Date: 11 May 1996 11:32:37 GMT

Date: Thursday, 09-May-96 02:30 PM

From: E. Zundel \ Internet: ([email protected])
Subject: Shindler’s wife asserts film is a lie.

The widow of Oscar Shindler, about whom Steven spielberg mad a movie,
decries the film as a hoax and a lie.

“Emilie Pelzl Schindler, the ex-wife of Oscar Schindler, whose story is
told in the movie _Shindler’s List_, asserts that the events told about
in the film were deformed and that her husband never wrote the famous
list of Jews to be saved from Auschwitz.

In a book of recollections, _Memoirs_, introduced to the press in Buenos

Aires, Emilie Pelzl Schindler, a Czech citizen and now 89 years old,
indicates that her ex-husband never went to Auschwitz and that he could
never have saved the 1,300 Jews whose salvation is attributed to him.

The famous list would not have been written by her husband, but by a
certain “Goldfman” (sic). Factually, nobody even knows what became of
the
Jews inscribed on that list.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49548 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:39 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Michael P. Stein wrote:

>> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.
>>
>> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>> course.

>On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit
>by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike?

Did god provide the bomb sight films?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49549 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-57.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 08 6:53:35 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 7 Jul 1996 06:36:15 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] writes:
>>
>>># Anyone want to explain this one?
>>
>>>[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp]
>>
>>>Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden’s bombing?
>>>”Puddles of melted human flesh”? People who turned into an
>>>”undulating layer of fine gray ashes” although the fire
>>>didn’t even touch them? People “glowing red and orange”
>>>(also, although the fire didn’t even touch them)?
>>
>> Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden but no PHYSICAL
>>evidence of any form of mass extermination at Belsen.

> Gosh, there is physical evidence of a burned Chicago. Guess it was
>firebombed.

I have been over this territory before. You have not been paying
attention. There are records of the mission planning, the mission
briefings, number reels of bomb site films associated with the mission,
before and after reconnaisance pictures with associated reel numbers
related to the mission. There are inventory records of the bombs
assigned to the mission.

All of it points to the smoking gun, physical evidence of aerial
bombardment.

Now where were you when I recited the above last time? Bad news feed?

>[snip]

>> There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.

> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>course.

All of the above.

>>There is no physical evidence of mass extermination by any means at
>>Belsen.
>>
>>You know the difference. It is simply inconvenient for you to admit to
>>the difference.

> Please tell us what physical evidence you have that the Dresden fire
>was not really caused by Mrs. O’Schmidt’s cow, and that the bombing was
>just coincidence. None, of course.

As you have now read for the third time a minimal recitation of the type
of physical evidence that exists, exists such that not one person need
ever testify to it or admit complicity, you have the answer for the
third time.

Or is this to be an exercise it hoping I get tired of repeating myself
or happen to miss making one repetition so you can again claim that I
have refused to discuss a subject?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49557 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:51:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 9:52:48 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 19:53:38 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>> This is real convenient to have 3,000,000 of the exterminated
>>coming from the immediate area.

> You expect the builders of the camps to build them far away from the
>intended victims? Well, duh!!

Strangely, the same people acting under the same orders did nothing of
the sort of thing that was found in Russian liberated areas. They
shipped people from France just to gas them in Poland instead of using a
“small farmstead” (as was supposed to have been used at Auschwitz
between the first experiment and the first gas chamber) in France for
the gassing.

Why do you think that was?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49558 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:47:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 8:48:58 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 15:21:53 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> > The Troll wrote:
>>

>[snip]

>> > And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
>> > needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
>> > that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
>> > the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
>> > being nonspecific to the gassing issue.
>>
>> I believe that such orders do exist. Most of the extant pictures that I
>> know of were taken in contravention to specific orders.

>Indeed there were orders not to take _unaithorized_ pictures at
>Auschwitz-Birkenau:

>”The Nazis wanted to record what they were doing, but on the other hand
>they were aware that photogtaphs of concentration camps would be damning
>evidence of their crimes. Accordingly, and in compliance with the general
>directives of SS_Reichsfu”hrer Heinrich Himmler and the Inspectorate of
>Concentration Camps, the Auschwitz authorities sought to forbid
>unauthorized photography of anything connected with the camp, directly or
>indirectly. Order No. 4/43, dated 2 February 1943 and signed by the camp’s
>commandant, SS_Obersturmbannfu”hrer Rudolf Ho”ss, was explicit on this>
>Item 3 reads: ‘I want to point out once more that taking pictures in the
>camp is forbidden. I shall punish with the utmost severity those who do
>not observe this order.’ The only exception was for official photographs
>specifically authorized.” (_Auschwitz: a history in photgraphs_, p. 34.)

>See also:

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/photos.01

It is interesting that you would hold that none of the pre-liberation
photos inside the camps are damning but rather were officially
authorized. That would indicate all claims that they are in some manner
proof of anything claimed about them being evidence is false.

Or will you insist upon having it both ways?

Yes.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49560 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Antisemitic in the USA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 02:38:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 9:39:46 PM CDT 1996

It is interesting to note what antisemitic things the rest of the world
can say.

For instance the 7/10/96 ITN Network News attributes Net’n’Yahoo’s warm
reception at the White House and standing ovations in Congress despite
his announcement of intentions to violate all previous peace agreements
to the power ot the Jewish lobby in the US, noting it is an election
year.

It is also noted that no major US media noted the reason for this lack
of condemnation of the change of policy.

It is to be noted that some time in the next four years Israel will
“begin to reduce” its dependence on the $1500 per person economic
subsidy provided by the US.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49561 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:02:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 10:03:40 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 20:26:45 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>> OF course the above is what you will repeat forever and ever but in fact
>> I only pointed out the lack of a mention of such a needle.

>Hey, when I was in the military I recieved tetanus shots.

>Ah, but in the preceeding sentence, I neglected to mention the needle! Ergo
>the sentence is false.

Perhaps it looked that long to you at that age …

But then you read the rest of the descriptions that go with these
immensely long needles such as “thought they were getting a vaccination”
and you see how ridiculous these stories are.

>Or else it might be that for most of the literate human species mention
>of injections or shots tends to indicate the presence of a needle.

>Then again, I can see Giwer’s point. Imagine someone saying something
>silly like “He was killed with a .44 Magnum.” Clearly this cannot have
>occurred unless the man was bludgeoned to death with the pistol since
>he would have been killed with the bullet, not the gun. No mention
>of the bullet he was shot with, therefore no shooting.

>Gee, and this time yesterday I though Matt had finally caught a clue…

And of course add to the above that hydrogen was one of the
“experimental” killing agents and it is even more absurd.

But then holohuggers are a credulous lot.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:41 PDT 1996
Article: 49562 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:23:15 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 8:24:50 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 06:13:59 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 8 Jul 1996 23:34:51 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>> The only thing I see wrong here is with your ability to read,
>>>understand, and evaluate what you read. Zyklon will vary depending on
>>>room size, concentration, and temperature. Witnesses will vary in their
>>>estimates of times. Only a very stupid person would not take into
>>>consideration these very simple points. You are not taking these very
>>>simple points into consideration. The conclusion is left as exercise to
>>>the reader.
>>
>>
>> Sorry but the variations are from instantanious to two days with a
>>second application and you know that. You have read all the crap about
>>the kill times here.

> I have read all your crap, yes. I don’t recall _two_ days, perhaps
>you’d care to post it?

Read the Auschwitz FAQ carried by Nizkor some times. It is right there.

I recall one claim of the next day, from the
>initial experiment, with most of the people dead. Obviously you are
>ignorant of the concept of LDxx, where xx is the percentage of test
>subjects killed by a given dose. And as usual you are taking outliers
>from the data points and giving them equal weight with the main cluster.
>Completely dishonest, as you know.

Of course I am well versed in LD50 and the like.

>>You also know that the time to death in the majority of the “eyewitness”
>>testimonies vary from 10 to 20 minutes for both HCN and CO period, no
>>questions asked.
>>
>> That makes them both equally lethal and you know that.

> Mere assertion is always the best way to make a point.

The assertions of your trusted and believable eyewitnesses as you are
fully aware.

> Care to supply a quote where a witness – even one – said that death
>occurred in ten minutes from CO in any of the Reinhard camps?

Treblinka reports of course put the times between 15 and 20 minutes.

Care to
>supply a quote which said that it took 20 minutes to _die_ (not reopen the
>doors, but _die_) from HCN in any of the Krema gassings? The majority of
>the testimonies _I_ have seen give a time which is from Zyklon drop to
>opening of the doors for removal of bodies. But for Kremas II and III,
>the majority of that time is for the powered ventilation system to remove
>the gas. And even for IV and V, this does not tell you if they left a
>bunch of dead bodies sitting in the chamber for ten minutes or so to err
>on the side of caution. And then in the Reinhard camps there were
>testimonies that even after 30 minutes, which is the majority of what _I_
>have seen, there were frequently people who were not quite dead and had to
>be shot.

You need to start reading what is posted here for comprehension without
force fitting them into what you want to believe. Pay attention to the
ubiquitous screaming times one of these days. Those times are given at
10-15 minutes by those highly credible eyewitnesses.

> When you are ready to deal with the subject honestly do please let me
>know.

> Why do you lie so much? Are you admitting your intellect is too tiny
>to beat a mere holohugger in debate without lying, deceptive editing,
>half-truths, and deceptive word games? Or is this merely early-onset
>Alzheimer’s?

When faced with the unpleasant truth about what they are supporting,
holohuggers will demand the instant repost of what has been posted
hundreds of times. In addition they will work upon the opposite
extremes of the times rather than admitting the time frames for both
gases are reported to be the same.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:42 PDT 1996
Article: 49563 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: NO nerve gas?]
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:30:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 119
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 8:31:41 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 06:18:24 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:31:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>># Evidence of that was posted here in the “greater part of”
>>># technical report on it, noting that “greater part of” is a
>>># technical term for “half of” in english
>>
>>>Excuse me? “Greater part” means “half”? Does the greater
>>>part of English speakers agree to this?
>>
>>># indicating an exponentially decaying release. That
>>># post lead to 6-12 hours as the 99% release time.
>>
>>>No, the article specifically noted that, even at below zero
>>>temperatures, there was no residue of HCN after “an hour, or
>>>at most two”.
>>
>> Not only was it your post, but you are lying about it.
>>
>> SOP for a holohugger.

> “Mere assertion is always the best way to make a point.” – Matt Giwer

> No documentation to support Mr. Giwer’s charge, as usual.

> I guess this is the best a 163 IQ type can do. How very sad.

You are not paying enough attention to this conference to be
participating. As you missed it …

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
From: [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:16:23 GMT

[email protected] writes:
# [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

[To Matt Giwer]

## No, relevant with regard to the rate of evaporation
## of HCN from Zyklon. Seems your estimate was off by a
## factor of 16 or so.

# A repeated assertion. Now where is the clear statement
# of evaporation time you promised?

The source – courtesy of Dr. Ulrich Roessler, with translation
help by Gordon McFee and Jamie McCarthy – is the following
article:

G. Peters, W. Rasch, Die Einsatzfaehigkeit der Blausaeure-Durchgasung
bei tiefen Temperaturen, Zeitschrift fuer hygienische Zoologie und
Schaedlingsbekaempfung, 1941.

i.e.

G. Peters, W. Rasch, The Serviceability of Prussic Acid
Gassing at Low Temperatures, Journal of Hygienic Zoology and Pest
Control, 1941, 133f.

Relevant pages have been scanned and posted to Nizkor’s web site:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?miscellany/dkeren-incoming

ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/miscellany/dkeren-incoming/

European mirror site

tp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/miscellany/dkeren-incoming/

in the files

PR132.jpg PR134.jpg PR136.jpg
PR133.jpg PR135.jpg PR137.jpg

The most relevant material is in page 136:

From these analytical measurements the following may be concluded:

1. In all cases, the most substantial part of the development of the
gas had taken place/been effected after one or at most two hours.
(A control of the remainders [Rueckstaende] after these
corresponding
times proved that the gas had evaporated from them without any
residues [deren restlose Entgasung].) Hence, the evaporation of the
prussic acid/HCN did not slow down considerably because of low
temperatures.

Note that the article discusses rather low temperatures, that is,
under 0 Celsius.

This, and other material found in Dr. Peters’ book, totally
refute “revisionist” lies about the rate of evaporation of
Zyklon-B.

-Danny Keren.

===

“most substantial part of” is a poor translation of a technical term
which, in english, would be “half of” in referring to an exponential
decrease, that is, half of in each time frame. The times here are give
here as between 30 and 60 minutes. I leave it as an exercise for you to
determine how many such periods are needed for safe handling.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another legal paupacy from Myshkin
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:23:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 1:24:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 04:26:56 GMT, [email protected] (Richard
Schultz) wrote:

>Prince Myshkin ([email protected]) wrote:

>[163 lines of quoted text from Dan Keren deleted]

>[Script of Monty Python’s “spam” sketch deleted]

>Interesting that our legal expert Prince Myshkin seems to think that
>copyright violation is not against the law. Or maybe we should respect
>him in that he doesn’t make any effort to hide his illegal activities.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lack of that pesky evidence thing again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:19:17 GMT

1/28/87
SS Gruppenfuehrer Gerhard Klopfer, who served as state secretary in
the Party
Chancellery under Martin Bormann and was the last surviving member
of the Wannsee
Conference (at which it was alleged that details were worked out
for the “final solution”)
dies in Heilbronn, West Germany. Klopfer was charged with war
crimes at Nuernberg, but
the case was dropped for lack of evidence, and in fact Klopfer was
permitted to resume
practicing law in 1956. This lends credence to the proposition that
the Wannsee
Conference had nothing to with with an extermination program.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:44 PDT 1996
Article: 49573 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 05:19:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:60560 alt.conspiracy:66147 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25078 alt.politics.white-power:35779 alt.radio.talk:12003 alt.revisionism:49573 alt.skinheads:31462

On 10 Jul 1996 14:52:43 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:09:17 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
>: wrote:

>: >Could you prove that, please?
>:
>: >Thank you.
>:
>: Read your fucking bible, idiot.
>:
>: It is all recorded there.
>:
>: What in the hell are you doing here without the slightest grouding in
>: the subject under discussion?

>Giwer claims he only attacks when he is attacked, and never initiates
>nastiness. Can anybody find the attack in Walt’s post, above?

Such gross stupidity annoys me.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:44 PDT 1996
Article: 49579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:28:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 11:30:19 PM CDT 1996
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On 10 Jul 1996 16:19:15 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 9 Jul 1996 12:46:57 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>>>>>> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>>>>>> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>>>>>> course.
>>>>
>>>>>On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit
>>>>>by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike?
>>>>
>>>> Did god provide the bomb sight films?
>>
>>> Who put the caption on the films? How do you know what town is down
>>>there? Is there some sort of big sign like there is in Hollywood, saying
>>>”Dresden?”
>>
>> You are playing games. Official records of reel nunbers assigned to
>>particular operations exist.

> And official records of the Auschwitz Bauleitung exist. File numbers,
>etc. Sorry, there is no difference save in what you choose to question
>and what you choose to accept. You know that.

But there exists no such evidence of mass gassings that you folks claim
which is the entire point, is it not?

> You have seen the Dresden evidence yourself? When and where?

We will NOT start playing that game else I will have to start asking if
you have seen the original documents you are referring to, and not
permit repetition from books about the documents.

>>> And of course we would also have to ask if the films show the
>>>firestorm allegedly caused by that bombing, or whether even if they do it
>>>indicates a true causal connection rather than a coincidence involving
>>>Mrs. O’Schmidt’s cow.
>>
>>> Then of course we must ask if there is a documented chain of custody
>>>on those films.
>>
>>> And what _were_ Steven Spielberg and the KGB doing on the day those
>>>films were made, hmn?
>>
>>> So when are you going to get around to providing physical evidence of
>>>this alleged allied firebombing of Dresden? I see none.
>>
>> Sorry, Stone, you have made a terrible case.

> “Mere assertion is always the best way to make a point.”

> Not one word you have written here establishes any link between the
>bombing and the fire. And you know it. Lots of cities were bombed in
>WWII. Why was Dresden so special?

You pretense not to see the difference is becoming quite interesting. I
point out the documentation, from inventory records to bomb site
cameras, and you say there is nothing. I point to written planning and
briefing records and you say there was nothing. I point to German
corroborating documentation and you say there was nothing.

It appears you have no idea what you are talking about but would rather
try to waste my time on repetition.

>> Were there the slightest
>>fraction of the documentation of mass extermination gassing as there is
>>for Dresden, you folks would trot it out and make it squeal.

> And had Seelo”we come off, with the prospect of Bomber Harris standing
>in the dock at the London War Crimes Tribunals, how much of this alleged
>physical evidence of Allied war crimes – a film of a bombing run, which in
>any event from your description sounds indistinguishable from thousands of
>films of bombing runs of unbarbecued cities – would you have? None, of
>course.

Which means you pretend there is not complete documentation even to the
point of connecting bomb lot numbers to the particular mission. You
have a truly fanstastic idea of what military records are like.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:45 PDT 1996
Article: 49583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer, DThomas, and “lying asshole”
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 05:57:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 12:58:45 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 15:01:18 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>DvdThomas ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Are there exceptions to my observations? Probably. Are the exceptions in
>: the majority, or even pervasive? I don’t think so. Jab Giwer in the ribs
>: and God knows what will come back at you. Speak civilly and you will
>: occasionally find him to be brusque, but not abusive. He definitely has a
>: method to how he responds, though I’ve not tried to work out the details.
>: It is not of any importance to do so.

>Check out, in the thread “Whacko Jew Posting Alert,” the Troll’s
>response to “Walt the Wonder Boy”. Giwer repeated his claim that
>Jews invented genocide; Walt typed, very politely, something along
>the lines of “Could you prove that, please?” Giwer’s response was,
>”Read your fucking Bible, idiot.”

>Walt spoke civilly. Matt responded abusively. He does it a lot,
>Mr. Thomas. A lot.

Save that I have been doing this for 15 years. I smelled his soft lead
in a mile away.

If you wish to contact him send him email.

You will find the email undeliverable.

It is a fake person with a fake addr.

Is that clear enough for you?

How did I know? Experience.

=====

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To: [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
From: Matt Giwer
Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!

At 06:23 PM 7/10/96 -0600, you wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.activism,
>alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.
radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads)
>
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

As I said, I wish no email that duplicates anything posted in
public.
—————————————————————
Live fast, love well, and have a glorious Website.

http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/
Commentary from the right side of the curve
Maintaining http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/tech/ (tips and tricks for
webs)
http://www2.combase.com/~mgiwer/mgiwer4/ (eye candy, blantant
advertising)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/ (my son)
http://www2.combase.com/~matt/mega/ (for internet advertising)

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:46 PDT 1996
Article: 49589 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:31:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 12:32:38 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 22:15:34 GMT, [email protected] (Orest Slepokura)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>>
>> ># Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at
>> ># Nizkor.
>>
>> >I will not party. Smith is a truly repulsive person, but he
>> >should be allowed to have his web site. To the best of my
>> >knowledge, and from reading this group, everybody in “Nizkor”
>> >disagrees with this kind of action. But one can expect Moran
>> >to lie about this – we know who we’re dealing with here: a liar
>> >and forger.
>>
>> >Unlike “leading revisionist” Ernst Zundel, I do not believe
>> >in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people
>> >have said – let the “revisionist” neo-Nazi scum be out here
>> >in the open, for all the world to see.
>>

>====================================START=====================================

>The CODOH site shut down without warning; the Freedom site shut down
>without warning. The [still-named] Simon Wiesenthal Center’s second-string
>Rabbi Cooper hectoring the Australian authorities to pull the plug on the
>Adelaide Institute’s Website Down Under. Coincidence? Synchronicity?

>Hardly…

>I suspected for some time that Daniel Keren didn’t like Nazis or even
>neo-Nazis, but it’s gratifying to see he doesn’t much like wannabe
>censors, either. The nadir of censorship of course being that wannabe
>”‘revisionist’ neo-Nazi” censor named Ernst Zundel. (Ouff! What a
>Dante-esque image!…)

>What Daniel Keren needs to do now is to sit down and have a quite word
>with the SWC’s Rabbi Cooper and sell the censorship-happy cleric on the
>merit of a free and open debate in the marketplace of ideas.

>It shouldn’t be that hard. For starters, Rabbi Cooper isn’t anywhere as
>”respulsive” as Bradley Smith. On the contrary.

>Moreover, if Keren can talk to straight to revisionists (excuse me,
>”deniers”), then he should be able to give the rabbi some straight talk
>about the downside of censorship, legal arm-twisting, and what-not. It
>looks bad; it gives others an impression of profound insecurity, of
>whining immaturity. And so on.

>In fact, it should be an easy sell. All Keren would have to do is remind
>Rabbi Cooper that by beating the drum for censorship he’d find himself in
>lock-step with Ernst Zundel. I’m sure thast would be the last thing the
>rabbi would want. Anything but that.

When one is riding the tiger, one knows that it is impossible to get
off.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:47 PDT 1996
Article: 49590 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!sgigate.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]om.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:06:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 3:08:04 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 8 Jul 1996 04:34:52 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>[email protected] (Richard Widmann) wrote:
>>
>>>-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES-
>>
>>>THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96
>>
>>>BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
>>>____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>> As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley
>>>R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust)
>>>website was shutdown from the World Wide Web. The Bradley R. Smith
>>>Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially
>>>encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust.
>>
>> It was an appropriate time for the site to be censored. It demonstrates
>>the intentions of the owners are contrary to the founding principles of
>>the United States.
>>
>> Of course individuals have a right to do what they want. It is their
>>choice. It is simply an example of the degradation of constitutional
>>principles upon which the country was founded.
>>
>> May they rot in hell.

> If Mr. Giwer would like to explain the contradiction between his
>statement that the disappearance of Rack Jite’s pages from Volant Turnpike
>were due to Combase’s complaint (initiated after Mr. Giwer told them there
>was something allegedly libelous to complain about),

Criminal copyright violation, lying asshole.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:48 PDT 1996
Article: 49597 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:54:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 10:56:26 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:04:44 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 9 Jul 1996 02:12:32 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>> This is amazing.
>>
>> An attorney admitting that the fundamental standards of evidence
>> required in a capital crime can not be produced because it never
>> existed.

>This is the level that you’ve sunk to?!?! This is not the Matt Giwer who
>took weeks to get nuked in Soapbox!

Your memories are quite different than mine.

>Back to your comment:

>Please show where Mr. Eideken said that the evidence never existed.

Try this instead of editing next time.

=====

> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
> Nice try but It is quite clear that I am talking about your mass
> extermination by gassing facilities within the camps.

Unfortunately that is exactly what the evidence you demand cannot
demonstrate. It simply has little relevance to what you are disputing.

–YFE

=====

Perhaps you could otherwise interperate this statement?

>Back to Matt Giwer:

>I was hoping to have a real demo to show the others in this newsgroup on
>how to defeat your contentions. I figured that they’d get an eye-opener.

>Instead, it would be an eye-closer.

Certainly good sir. All huff and bluff as you have been since you
arrived.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:49 PDT 1996
Article: 49602 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.eecs.nwu.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 04:36:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 9:37:41 PM PDT 1996

On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 19:45:49 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>> >Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>
>> >> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.
>> >>
>> >> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>> >> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>> >> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>> >> course.
>>
>> >On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit
>> >by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike?
>>
>> Did god provide the bomb sight films?

>Obviously faked. Why would anyone take pictures or make any kind
>of notes about a crime they were in the progress of committing?
>Did at any time those films show a big sign saying “Welcome to
>Dresden”? Can you produce one of these alledged bombers?

>(See, it’s easy to use the Revisionist Method!)

However that is not the “revisionist method” in the least.

The revisionist method is to point out that there are not even faked
pictures of gassing being presented. No pictures at all. NOTHING in
the way of physical evidence.

You should start paying more attention.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:50 PDT 1996
Article: 49605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New Irving book!
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:16:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 4:17:57 AM CDT 1996
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On 10 Jul 1996 11:20:34 -0400, [email protected] (RuthSommer) wrote:

>I just heard that David Irving is writing a new book called “ROOSEVELT’S
>WAR”. He has earlier written “HITLER’S WAR” and “CHURCHILL’S WAR” (in two
>volumes) and this will be the third in this trilogy (sort of a trilogy
>anyway).

>Does anyone here know any details of this, when it is expected to be
>published, and so on?

>I hear he is still looking for an American publisher for his “GOEBBELS”
>biography. My copy is the Focal Point (London) slipcased edition, which I
>had to import. It really is very good, vastly better than the ‘history’
>books on Goebbels that I still see in Barnes & Noble, Crown, and other
>bookstores.

>The Jewish pressure groups who are apparently trying to control what is
>published in the USA seem to have the publishing community terrified of
>them. Why do Jews do this, anyway? Are they trying to lend credence to
>the ‘Jewish conspiracy’ and ‘Jewish control’ theories? It sure looks like
>it.

As we all know the US publishing industry is centered in New York City
just as is most of the news media.

By simple average demographics 1/3 of their staffs are Jewish as is NYC.

If The Bell Curve is correct, that fraction should be 1/2 of their
staffs.

What does any publishing outlet do when 1/3 to 1/2 of their employees
are against the activities of their employer?

Remember The Fountainhead?

And when the Banner went to the defense of Howard Roark, Toohey’s men
were really in control.

It is the same thing.

It is a power brokerage that needs to be destroyed.

That is one of the reasons for the harrassment on the internet. It is
the presumption that this control should extend to the internet.

It is a presumption of the activist American Jewery that nothing should
be permitted to be published in any form that casts any negative light
upon anything even smelling of Jewish.

And that condemnation even extends to suggesting that it exists in the
first place when we all know that it does.

It is well known around the world but mentioning it in the US is
considered antisemitic in the US.

It is quite amazing really, considering the professed dedication to the
1st amendment of these same people.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:51 PDT 1996
Article: 49608 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 07:17:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 12:19:11 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:79357 alt.revisionism:49608 talk.politics.european-union:4757

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:03:11 +0200, [email protected] (Holger
Skok) wrote:

>In article , olk[email protected] (Ole
>Kreiberg) wrote:

>> THE AMERICAN WAY
>
>> In the USA, hydrogen cyanide gas has been used for the executions. The
>> procedure, as laid down by law (to effect the death of the convict without
>> endangering the prison staff!) is as follows:
>> Firstly, the convict is strapped down in a chair in a small chamber.
>> Secondly, the chamber is sealed.
>> Thirdly, sodium cyanid crystals are poured into a container of
>> sulphuric acid. This quickly releases large quantities of hydrogen cyanide
>> gas which kills the convict within a matter of seconds.
>> Fourthly, the chamber is then flushed with ammonia gas which reacts with
>> the hydrogen cyanid gas to form harmless crystals.
>> Fifthly, indicators are used to check that the chamber is no longer lethal.
>> Sixthly, attendants (wearing gas masks and protective clothing) enter the
>> chamber through an air-lock and brush the convict’s hair and clothing to
>> dislodge any gas which may still adhering to them.

>Fine, you did it, Ole. That is exactly the argument presented by
>Leuchter, who certainly knows how Americans murder their
>convicts, since he designs gas-chambers and other killing
>machines for a living.

>The descriptions of the “American Way” are probably correct. At
>least I don’t see anything that I can contradict. I have not heard
>of the use of Ammonia gas – I suppose you’re talking of NH3 – being
>used to flush the chamber and I don’t know whether the implied
>chemical reaction between it and HCN is possible but that’s not
>so very important actually. For the basic flaw of your reasoning
>is that it assumes that current American standards for safety at
>the workplace had been applied to the prisoners who had to drag
>the corpses of their unfortunate brothers and sisters in suffering
>out of the gas chambers.

>Of course the American State governments having gas chambers
>operated in their prisons go to very great lengths to protect the
>guards operating the chambers. They don’t want to get sued by
>some disgruntled guard over having suffered cyanide poisoning
>and now not being able to smoke without coughing, or something
>like that.

On the flip side of the news, according to absolutely reliable and
unquestionable eyewitnesses, there was no concern whatsoever about
anyone dying and no reports of any of them doing so.

Further we have clear claims by the holohuggers that this gas was
exhausted from an uncertain number of “little chimneys” approximately at
ground level without regard to who might have been down wind of it.

The problem with your explanation is that it is totally your creation
and not supported in any manner by the eyewitnesses.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:51 PDT 1996
Article: 49614 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:07:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:08:43 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 00:00:09 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 09:42:30 -0400,
>Alec Grynspan wrote:

> Casimir the Great of Poland invited the Jews to come to Poland
> to form a middle class.

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Buzzer there.

> That was nearly 1000 years after there was anyone to invite.
> They were not invited from “palestine” but from other countries
> long after (400 years) after the Judeans were supposed to have
> migrated.

>Once again, Mr. Giwer makes a virtue of ignorance! The Judeans
>migrated into the Roman Empire and 400 years later, according to Mr.
>Giwer, there are no Jews left in the region.

Ignorance?

Migrated INTO the Roman Empire?

Got their ass wiped by the Macedonians and the Romans came along and
took the empire from their descendants.

An independent Israel can be considered about 600 years cumulative at
most.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:52 PDT 1996
Article: 49619 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:59:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
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On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:42:38 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>
>> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>>history.

> It might not be the “first written record”, this I don’t know,
>but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a
>righteous tenet of their religion.

> But then, god told them to do it.

“Gott mit Uns” was on the German army belt buckle in WW I.

God makes a good excuse for any murderous enterprise.

As for the first, it is the oldest I have ever come across. There are
plenty of Egyptian and early Babylonian writings of war. The warriors
were executed, many of the people taken into slavery and heavy tribute
extracted (for good reason but a digression) from those who remained.
However, genocide was not in the cards.

The Jews themselves were conquered three recorded times (Babylon,
Macedonia, Rome) and no genocide against them is recorded.

Even their god has an interest in destroying blood lines in the infamous
“first born” story against the Egyptians. And even then they gloss over
the “I will harden Pharho’s heart” as creating a deliberate pretext for
the mass torment and slaughter. If it were not for their god there
would have been no reason for the entire story.

What bothers me is the rank hypocrisy of it all.

It is like Christians today claiming to be a peacable lot when all of
history informs of that it is only the lack of the power to be predatory
muderers that makes them peacable today. It is the same with these
Jews.

When they had the power to do so they were more successful than the
Nazis in genocide.

It is not a matter of being different.

It is a matter of lack of opportunity.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:53 PDT 1996
Article: 49622 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:09:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 9 Jul 1996 13:18:41 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:06:36 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>>As long as you don’t provide it, you are also “proving” (by
>>>an extension of your “revisionist arguments”) that Dresden was
>>>not bombed.
>>
>>I have pointed to the available physical evidence that does not need one
>>word of testimony to support the event. Apparently you can not read it.

> I have pointed out, among other things, that you have not presented a
>chain of custody for this alleged evidence – none of which you have given
>a reference for, of course – nor told us how we know the films are
>properly captioned, etc.

Sorry but you ignore the association of the film reels that justifies
the holohugger claim that the aerial pictures of the Kremas are in fact
what they claim to be. If you wish to claim they are all equally
invalide that is your problem.

> The Vergasungskeller memo needs to testimony to support the event.
>Nor do the gassing van letters, one of which was confirmed by Rauff in his
>Chilean deposition. Yet you do not accept them. Why the inconsistency?

> Now go back and meet the same standards of evidence you demand for
>that which you do not believe.

Why do you feign a lack of understanding of the standards of physical
evidence that I have presented?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:54 PDT 1996
Article: 49623 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Discussion with Giwer begins
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:55:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:56:52 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gerstein’s confession
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:20:07 GMT

1/30/46
When the “confession” of Kurt Gerstein is offered as evidence at
the war crimes trials at
Nuernberg, it is judged to be so obviously phony that it is
rejected, and not permitted to be
read before the court. Even kangaroo courts have standards to
maintain! In later trials, this
same document is admitted as evidence by judges and prosecutors
desperate for anything
that will help them hang their virtually defenseless victims.

On 10 Jul 1996 21:24:17 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 9 Jul 1996 12:12:34 GMT, sc[email protected] (Richard Schultz)
>
>> >We should start at the beginning: what precisely do you mean by “physical
>> >evidence”? That is, can you either provide a definition, or provide
>> >an example of “phsyical evidence” for another historical event that we
>> >all agree took place (say, the Battle of Gettysburg)?

>> If you have a bad news feed complain.
>
>> I have stated this many times.

> You most certainly have not. You have told us that you know what it
>is and theat everybody else should realize what you are talking about.

Just how do you miss posts directed to you? You mus really have a
shitty news feed. Do you want to keep denying this forever?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Physical evidence
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:09 GMT

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>
>> My “belief” is contingent upon physical evidence. There is no
>physical
>> evidence of gassing.
>
>> What can be more clear than that?

> A definition of what you consider “physical evidence” for starters. You
>have been asked several times and the sole response that I can remember is
>that it is not eyewitness testimony. You have yet to explain, for example, why
>documentary evidence does not meet your standard. Nor have you explained
>why you reject out of hand evidence that there was a deliberate effort to destroy
>such evidence.

> Please note that I am not requesting an argument that convinces
>anyone of the accuracy of you opinion but merely a clear statement of what it is.

A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
soon as the doors are opened? How about about a long line of people
carrying bodies out of a building? How about a picture of someone
pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?

How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that corresponds
to the “testimony” but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
that do not indicate a cause of death? How a significant fraction of
those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?

And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

Now you could go one step further and produce first the design
specifications for a large scale gas chamber, that means technical
specs, not simple drawings for inference, and then show the building you
folks have found in fact matches those specifications.

At one point I suggested physical descriptions that matched the layout
and construction of the building complexes that match the designated
buildings. The best that were posted in response produced more
mismatches than they produced matches.

I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
physical evidence. It appears quite obvious to me.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:54 PDT 1996
Article: 49624 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:38:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 11:40:08 PM PDT 1996
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On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:57:48 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>
>> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>>history.
>>
>> Do not believe me.
>>
>> Read your fine bible.
>>
>> Then get back to me.
>>

> The exact passages can be found in “Deuteronomy”, “Numbers” and
>”Joshua”.

> They usually end up with something like ‘and none remained, young
>and old’.

Making them a clear record of genocide by the murderous, proto-Nazi
Israelites.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:55 PDT 1996
Article: 49627 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 07:06:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:08:09 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:58:25 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> You have identified me as a troll.

>Yes – because you are.

>>
>> Sorry abut that but this conference is a not a troll but a “take no
>> prisoners” game.
>>

>You already lost, Matt. Sorry, but your inability to see that is part of
>your current problem.

>You miss the real purpose of this NG, Matt. Even many of the long-time
>participants miss it.

>Think about it. Draw some thread shift diagrams. You should be able to
>get the real use for this conference.

>BTW – your claim to be destroying it is foolish. You are doing an
>excellent job of assisting in that purpose. The person who has done the
>most to damage that function is one of the folks that you label the
>”gang of six” and he doesn’t even realise it – yet.

>> You truly need to change your response to me or you are going to fall
>> into the holohugger mold.

>You really don’t understand, do you, Matt? Pity!

>>
>> You will also agree one more time that you have claimed to be into wet
>> work for the Mossad.

>No. My connection with the Mossad and my wet work are separate.

>>
>> Murders have their attractions but not liars.

>Hardly murder – but if I told you, somebody would have to kill you (I
>don’t do that any more).

Cute.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49628 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.cableol.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:18:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:20:04 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 02:17:51 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:15:02 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>>># I have pointed to the available physical evidence that
>>># does not need one word of testimony to support the event.
>>
>>>Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
>>>But you must know that.
>>
>> You know it does not.
>>
>> There is not one picture of anyone on the roof of any building much
>>less pouring in anything. But you know that.

> And if there were, you would point out that it does not prove that
>there is anyone inside the room into which the person is pouring
>something, nor that the thing being poured is Zyklon. But you know that.

But there are no such pictures so your speculation as to what I might do
is your personal fantasy and has nothing to do with the subject.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49629 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.cableol.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It was amazing
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:26:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 3:28:09 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:24:39 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Then came the asshole holohuggers playing their ancient games.

>Get a job, punk. No nazihugger here willing to give this
>person a job? The punk had to retire at the age of 46,

Chose to, youngster.

>apparently because no one wanted him anymore (not to mention
>his other personal problems). That’s one of the reasons for his
>hostility.

There was not much call for clever ways to kill Russians. But then if
you want the Cold War back again, I will certain cash in on it. I would
prefer poverty to its return.

You are very strange to wish otherwise.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:57 PDT 1996
Article: 49630 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 07:05:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:06:48 AM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:44:03 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>>> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>>
>>> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>>>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>>>history.
>>
>> It might not be the “first written record”, this I don’t know,
>>but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a
>>righteous tenet of their religion.
>>
>> But then, god told them to do it.
>>
> That is, their god.

That was Yahweh God, one of their seven gods, one for each day of their
week. That was the horned god, the blood thirsty one. No wonder his
followers won and wiped out most of the records of the others.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:57 PDT 1996
Article: 49636 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Antisemitic in the USA
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:12:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:13:51 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 03:16:12 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> It is interesting to note what antisemitic things the rest of the world
>>can say.
>>
>> For instance the 7/10/96 ITN Network News attributes Net’n’Yahoo’s warm
>>reception at the White House and standing ovations in Congress despite
>>his announcement of intentions to violate all previous peace agreements
>>to the power ot the Jewish lobby in the US, noting it is an election
>>year.
>>
>> It is also noted that no major US media noted the reason for this lack
>>of condemnation of the change of policy.
>>
>> It is to be noted that some time in the next four years Israel will
>>”begin to reduce” its dependence on the $1500 per person economic
>>subsidy provided by the US.

> And the relevance of this to a discussion of revisionism, the purpose
>of this group which you wanted to get back on track is … ?

You folks have not complied. Why should I?

>–
>Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:58 PDT 1996
Article: 49637 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JDL, Terrorists
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:12:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 98
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:14:09 AM CDT 1996
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On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:38:08 EDT, [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>> “Hypocrisy is not a nice thing to see.” – Matt Giwer

>> I have noticed little progress, particularly in McFly’s continuing effort
>>to keep the conference at the personal insult level.

>There is nothing in the least hypocritical in my pointing out to the waiting
>world what a lying, whining, decrepit, pathetic, insulting, racist, sexist,
>morally bereft troll Mr. Giwer is. Giwer doesn’t like that because it
>screws up his trolling, and might just persuade some people to ignore him.
>Certainly it exposes him for the troll he is. If Mr. Giwer doesn’t like it,
>we all know what he can do about it.

>> Nor have I seen much contribution on the part of you folks when there are
>>constant references to neo-nazis.

>Yes, it must be annoying. Mr. Giwer now tries the “poor, picked on wittle
>Mattie” routine. Used to work, but everyone has seen through him by now.

>–
>Gord McFee

>.. I’ll write no line before its time([email protected])
>– MR/2 2.27 #331

>
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Physical evidence
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:09 GMT

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>
>> My “belief” is contingent upon physical evidence. There is no
>physical
>> evidence of gassing.
>
>> What can be more clear than that?

> A definition of what you consider “physical evidence” for starters. You
>have been asked several times and the sole response that I can remember is
>that it is not eyewitness testimony. You have yet to explain, for example, why
>documentary evidence does not meet your standard. Nor have you explained
>why you reject out of hand evidence that there was a deliberate effort to destroy
>such evidence.

> Please note that I am not requesting an argument that convinces
>anyone of the accuracy of you opinion but merely a clear statement of what it is.

A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
soon as the doors are opened? How about about a long line of people
carrying bodies out of a building? How about a picture of someone
pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?

How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that corresponds
to the “testimony” but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
that do not indicate a cause of death? How a significant fraction of
those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?

And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

Now you could go one step further and produce first the design
specifications for a large scale gas chamber, that means technical
specs, not simple drawings for inference, and then show the building you
folks have found in fact matches those specifications.

At one point I suggested physical descriptions that matched the layout
and construction of the building complexes that match the designated
buildings. The best that were posted in response produced more
mismatches than they produced matches.

I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
physical evidence. It appears quite obvious to me.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:22:59 PDT 1996
Article: 49639 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:34:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:36:07 AM CDT 1996

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:28:49 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>
>> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>> the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>> history.
>>
>> Do not believe me.
>>
>> Read your fine bible.
>>
>> Then get back to me.

>Would Exodus 1:16 count? After all the order of Pharoah to kill all newborn
>Jewish males might be seen by some as an attempt to destroy a people, especially
>in an age when it was the men who defined a group.

>Have *you* ever read a Bible, Giwer?

Yes, I have read that garbage.

Your “god” does exactly the same thing and is no better than the mortal
Pharoah.

This is a god you are talking about, remember?

Created everything, our entire reality, remember?

This is the THE himself.

All he has to do is tell Scotty to beam them all to the Promised Land
and it is a done deal. Right?

Or do you have a problem with a god doing this?

Excuse me. You accept that this god wanted all the death and suffering
instead of doing it the easy way.

I find it amazing the otherwise apparently rational people who swallow
crap like the bible stories.

You are truly wierd.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:00 PDT 1996
Article: 49640 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:36:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:38:09 AM CDT 1996

On 11 Jul 1996 04:30:26 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:03:11 +0200, [email protected] (Holger
>>Skok) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , [email protected] (Ole
>>>Kreiberg) wrote:
>>
>>>> THE AMERICAN WAY
>>>
>>>> In the USA, hydrogen cyanide gas has been used for the executions. The
>>>> procedure, as laid down by law (to effect the death of the convict without
>>>> endangering the prison staff!) is as follows:
>>>> Firstly, the convict is strapped down in a chair in a small chamber.
>>>> Secondly, the chamber is sealed.
>>>> Thirdly, sodium cyanid crystals are poured into a container of
>>>> sulphuric acid. This quickly releases large quantities of hydrogen cyanide
>>>> gas which kills the convict within a matter of seconds.
>>>> Fourthly, the chamber is then flushed with ammonia gas which reacts with
>>>> the hydrogen cyanid gas to form harmless crystals.
>>>> Fifthly, indicators are used to check that the chamber is no longer lethal.
>>>> Sixthly, attendants (wearing gas masks and protective clothing) enter the
>>>> chamber through an air-lock and brush the convict’s hair and clothing to
>>>> dislodge any gas which may still adhering to them.
>>
>>
>>>Fine, you did it, Ole. That is exactly the argument presented by
>>>Leuchter, who certainly knows how Americans murder their
>>>convicts, since he designs gas-chambers and other killing
>>>machines for a living.
>>
>>>The descriptions of the “American Way” are probably correct. At
>>>least I don’t see anything that I can contradict. I have not heard
>>>of the use of Ammonia gas – I suppose you’re talking of NH3 – being
>>>used to flush the chamber and I don’t know whether the implied
>>>chemical reaction between it and HCN is possible but that’s not
>>>so very important actually. For the basic flaw of your reasoning
>>>is that it assumes that current American standards for safety at
>>>the workplace had been applied to the prisoners who had to drag
>>>the corpses of their unfortunate brothers and sisters in suffering
>>>out of the gas chambers.
>>
>>>Of course the American State governments having gas chambers
>>>operated in their prisons go to very great lengths to protect the
>>>guards operating the chambers. They don’t want to get sued by
>>>some disgruntled guard over having suffered cyanide poisoning
>>>and now not being able to smoke without coughing, or something
>>>like that.
>>
>> On the flip side of the news, according to absolutely reliable and
>>unquestionable eyewitnesses, there was no concern whatsoever about
>>anyone dying and no reports of any of them doing so.
>>
>> Further we have clear claims by the holohuggers that this gas was
>>exhausted from an uncertain number of “little chimneys” approximately at
>>ground level without regard to who might have been down wind of it.
>>
>> The problem with your explanation is that it is totally your creation
>>and not supported in any manner by the eyewitnesses.

> The problem with your response is that the revisionist writer
>Friedrich Berg has admitted that the delousing chambers at Auschwitz did
>not have any high chimneys either.

I speak for myself.

Tell it to him.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:01 PDT 1996
Article: 49641 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email ‘bombings’?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:38:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:39:44 AM CDT 1996

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:31:04 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On 10 Jul 1996 11:14:27 -0400, [email protected] (RuthSommer) wrote:

>(some stuff snipped)
>>If anti-revisionists are doing this to revisionists, what does it mean?
>>That they can’t answer revisionist postings rationally? That they feel
>>the need to harass revisionists?

>Ms. Sommer, could you possibly prove that is what is happening?? It
>would seem that from what I have observed, several net nazis have
>tried to disrupt servers and in general raise havoc. Again I would ask
>that you prove your assertion, either that or as usual the
>”revisionists” as you call them, I would prefer the term Holocaust
>denier, are probably getting wazooed by the white not bright crowd.

>>Some of the listserv sysops realize what is happening and don’t like it.
>>I’ve heard that they’ve passed on the headers of the ‘subscribe’ requests
>>to the intended addressees.
>>
>>This seems to be a new (or old? I don’t know) way to harass holders of
>>viewpoints opposed to the Holocaust. Sickening and pathetic, I think. I
>>thought I’d heard it all, but I guess not.
>No, I think that it is a way to harrass people in general, just
>because a few net nazis and Holocaust deniers get bombed because of
>their reprehensible notes, is hardly proof, a lot of people get
>bombed, again I would bet the white not bright crowd, due to a great
>degree of immaturity.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Physical evidence
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:09 GMT

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>
>> My “belief” is contingent upon physical evidence. There is no
>physical
>> evidence of gassing.
>
>> What can be more clear than that?

> A definition of what you consider “physical evidence” for starters. You
>have been asked several times and the sole response that I can remember is
>that it is not eyewitness testimony. You have yet to explain, for example, why
>documentary evidence does not meet your standard. Nor have you explained
>why you reject out of hand evidence that there was a deliberate effort to destroy
>such evidence.

> Please note that I am not requesting an argument that convinces
>anyone of the accuracy of you opinion but merely a clear statement of what it is.

A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
soon as the doors are opened? How about about a long line of people
carrying bodies out of a building? How about a picture of someone
pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?

How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that corresponds
to the “testimony” but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
that do not indicate a cause of death? How a significant fraction of
those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?

And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

Now you could go one step further and produce first the design
specifications for a large scale gas chamber, that means technical
specs, not simple drawings for inference, and then show the building you
folks have found in fact matches those specifications.

At one point I suggested physical descriptions that matched the layout
and construction of the building complexes that match the designated
buildings. The best that were posted in response produced more
mismatches than they produced matches.

I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
physical evidence. It appears quite obvious to me.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: total lack of perspective exemplified
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:49:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 3:50:38 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 22:32 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 10 Jul 1996 06:42 MST, [email protected] (Danny
>>Mittleman) wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t think there is any data available to support this assertion of
>>> yours, and your assertion runs counter to what is intuitive to me.
>>
>>> Young people in general have little knowledge of historical events 50
>>> years ago. If you ask them who was president 50 years ago, I suspect
>>> less than 20% of the college students in the country would get it
>>> correct. (Marty or someone, could you take a small poll in your class
>>> and see what happens?)
>>
>>> Surely those youths who happened to see Schindler’s List have a visual
>>> image of the Holocaust, but that is just a snapshot. I’d be very
>>> surprised if you could show me that more than 5% of today’s college
>>> students could name more than one concentration camp, or could
>>> breakdown death totals into Jewish and non-Jewish correctly, or could
>>> breakdown camp and non-camp deaths correctly. Whatever picture exists,
>>> I suggest, is a very shallow picture.
>>
>> At a time when 5% of college students would be hard pressed to name the
>>major countries involved in WW II, this nerfbrain thinks that a bit of
>>historical trivia like his holocaust is of some particular significance.

> Go away, troll.

> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest
> is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he
> has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others
> of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which
> contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
> emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted
> himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity
> that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to: URL
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Physical evidence
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:09 GMT

[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] writes:

>
>> My “belief” is contingent upon physical evidence. There is no
>physical
>> evidence of gassing.
>
>> What can be more clear than that?

> A definition of what you consider “physical evidence” for starters. You
>have been asked several times and the sole response that I can remember is
>that it is not eyewitness testimony. You have yet to explain, for example, why
>documentary evidence does not meet your standard. Nor have you explained
>why you reject out of hand evidence that there was a deliberate effort to destroy
>such evidence.

> Please note that I am not requesting an argument that convinces
>anyone of the accuracy of you opinion but merely a clear statement of what it is.

A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
soon as the doors are opened? How about about a long line of people
carrying bodies out of a building? How about a picture of someone
pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?

How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that corresponds
to the “testimony” but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
that do not indicate a cause of death? How a significant fraction of
those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?

And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
that I describe. There appears to have been no orders against taking
the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
being nonspecific to the gassing issue.

Now you could go one step further and produce first the design
specifications for a large scale gas chamber, that means technical
specs, not simple drawings for inference, and then show the building you
folks have found in fact matches those specifications.

At one point I suggested physical descriptions that matched the layout
and construction of the building complexes that match the designated
buildings. The best that were posted in response produced more
mismatches than they produced matches.

I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
physical evidence. It appears quite obvious to me.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:02 PDT 1996
Article: 49645 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor: Vile, Lazy, or Ignorant
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:31:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 3:33:22 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:34:00 -0500, “Duncan Coons”
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Anyone with even a passing familiarity with mainstream political and
>academic discourse should examine Nizkor’s archive file “canada-right,” a
>contemptible piece of character assassination that purports to be a
>directory of far-right groups
>(orgs/canadian/northern-foundation/canada.right).

>In any event, if you have any decency at all, you will remove this trash
>from your site. Quickly.

It has been worse. At one time on the US org listing they had
Stormfront and The Heritage Foundation in the same list.

Like all Canadians, they pretend to dabble in US politics when they are
in fact unwelcome outsiders who preferred to live on their knees to the
Crown rather than fight like men.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:03 PDT 1996
Article: 49646 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email ‘bombings’?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:35:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 3:37:23 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 10 Jul 1996 11:14:27 -0400, [email protected] (RuthSommer) wrote:

>I have just heard about ’email bombings’ in which people who are
>revisionist are getting subscribed to scores of listservs, without their
>permission or desire.

>A revisionist will go online, check his or her email, and find hundreds
>upon hundreds of messages from listservs he or she has never heard of.
>The deluge of messages fills up the email box and legitimate messages are
>bounced back to the sender. Some of the listservs subscribed to are
>pornographic etc. Really filthy stuff.

>If anti-revisionists are doing this to revisionists, what does it mean?
>That they can’t answer revisionist postings rationally? That they feel
>the need to harass revisionists?

>Some of the listserv sysops realize what is happening and don’t like it.
>I’ve heard that they’ve passed on the headers of the ‘subscribe’ requests
>to the intended addressees.

>This seems to be a new (or old? I don’t know) way to harass holders of
>viewpoints opposed to the Holocaust. Sickening and pathetic, I think. I
>thought I’d heard it all, but I guess not.

All of the above but also very common.

Holohuggers are into harrassment as a way of life.

After all, it is all they have left after their myths are exposed.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 07:23:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49647 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why don’t historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:58:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:00:10 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:20:12 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>> On 8 Jul 1996 21:07:09 -0400, [email protected] (SF924) wrote [re. Mr.
>Hagen’s “Revisionism defined]:
>>
>> >But you have to come to grips with a very serious fact: no historian or
>> >academic, who is not also pushing a neo-Nazi or similar agenda, seems to
>> >support your position. The only people who seem to support your position
>> >are those persons with a strong political or personal bias either to
>> >rehabilitate Nazism, Hitler or facism or denounce its victims, i.e. Jews
>> >and other lesser races. Much of the recvisionist thinking plays on
>> >earlier Nazi-style propoganda: i.e. the Jews control the world.
>>
>> >Until serious mainstream academics come to support your position, your
>> >position will be viewed as part of the lunatic fringe, and justifiably so.
>>
>> Excuse me sir. Mainstreme Acedemisians put their pants on one leg at a
>> time just like the rest of us and have to achieve the same standards as
>> anyone else in what they say.

>Actually, mainstream academicians generally hold themselves, and each
>other, to higher standards in their writing than they would expect to see
>in general public discourse. That’s why academic journals are subject to
>”blind” peer reviews, where submitted articles are screened by
>several readers who get a copy of the article with the author’s name
>removed. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s pretty rigorous.

Of course they do and that means that they will not subject themselves
to the knee jerk antisemitic label that the unorganized holohuggers will
put on them.

And should it pass the blind peer review the editors will still review
for content and any reviewer worth the job will mark it for particular
review. And the journal will not risk the mindlessly applied label
either.

>> Anyone in the least familiar with academic politics (as in any other
>> power structure) knows that any position/title/chair is a bureaucratic
>> piece if shit.

>While academic politics are indeed a serious problem in the business, that
>hardly makes _all_ scholarship invalid.

That is not the claim in the least. Please do not try to pretend that
it is.

Within academe, for all its
>faults and bickering (sometimes over trivialities), there are wide
>variations in what is generally accepted in terms of theory and practice.
>Ideological debate is common and wide-ranging–I have had profs who ranged
>from Marxist to rock-bottom Tory in their politics. Just asbout the only
>thing that these very diverse folks would agree upon is that pseudoscience
>(UFOs, “creationism,” faith healing, etc) and pseudohistory (Holocaust
>denial, the Trilateral Commission Conspiracy, etc.) are demonstably bunk.

Obviously you have not had a significant fraction of “profs” as
everything you have named can be attributed to some prof or other save
that they do not get into publication in the proper journals. If you
really think that is not true, get back to me and I will try to
resurrect enough names and associations to show you otherwise.

In the mean time the value of “faith healing” and the “placebo effect”
have both been long matters of professional publication save that
advocacy of the former does not make the right journals.

UFOs? Professor John Condon for openers although he finally found
against them.

Creationism? At least two engineering professors but their names escape
me at the moments, read talk.origins if you are really interested.

No gassing? Professor Butz.

Is there a problem with you or your claims?

Yes.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 11:55:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 05:48:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 12:50:04 AM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:40:16 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># Did god provide the bomb sight films?

>But “revisionists” always say “photographs can be faked”.
>Surely, so can films.

I am aware of no pictures that any holohugger has presented that have
ever been subjected to the claim that they are faked. Perhaps you can
provide a source for this groundless claim of yours? I thought not.

>You have to accept that, using “revisionist methods”, it
>can also be “proved” that Dresden was never bombed.

I am fully prepared to separate physical evidence from unsubstantiated
testimony which you holohuggers are so desparately trying to claim are
identical. There is even a Pennsylvania attiorney that will lie about
their being the same when such a representation in court would be
grounds for disbarment.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 13:11:53 PDT 1996
Article: 49706 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They don’t call Giwer the cotrol for nothing!’
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 02:26:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
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On 10 Jul 1996 14:51:03 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Considering your parents murdered Jews it is unclear what you are doing
>: in this NG.

>Mr. Giwer’s devotion to reason knows no bounds, apparently.

Was it not the noted whacko Elie Wiesel who counseled hatred for all
things German?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 15:38:07 PDT 1996
Article: 49716 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 03:31:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 8:33:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:42:22 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:35:22 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Ah, that old inferiority complex kicks in. Perhaps you’ll
>> >clarify your statement about me being an “impersonating professor”?
>>
>> Of course, attack the messenger, not the message.
>>
>> It is so much easier.

>Glass houses. Thrown stones.

Are you sure you aren’t Chuck Feree?

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 15:38:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:57:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 7:58:46 PM CDT 1996
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On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 20:41:05 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:45:59 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>>>[email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good only Overtaken By Events shows up only to post the slurs while his
>>>>dumbass flunkies he has permitted to call themselves “co-webmasters”
>>>>pretend to speak for Nizkor when in fact they are only self-aggrandizing
>>>>flunkies.

>>>He’s the right one to talk about “self-aggrandizing flunkies”, isn’t he?

>> And just who do you think I am beholding to in life?

>If the troll had a modicum of literacy, instead of the above he would
>have written:

> “To whom do you think I am beholden in life?”

>But in any event, it does seem highly unlikely that any
>self-respecting person would _voluntarily_ choose to demonstrate the
>ignorance, arrogance, dishonesty and total lack of any positive human
>attributes – as frequently and consistently as does the troll.

>It would therefore not be unreasonable to think that there may well be
>a piper calling his tune. And if so, it must be an ironclad contract
>too, because the troll’s record is quite clear: the piper is wasting
>his money. Rare is the troll-post that does not provide evidence of
>one or more of his many inadequacies and/or failures in life.

It is good to see the fat broad has returned to her old antics.

Rather than laying McVay she should have been learning HTML for the
first time.

That way there might be some justification of claiming to be a
co-webmistress.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 15:38:09 PDT 1996
Article: 49726 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Back by popular request
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:25:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 6:27:11 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

The testimony of Moshe Lundelthal

I was a sonderkommando. It was my job to take bodies out of
the chambers and stack them. The bodies were grotesque. They
had turned blue from the gas. They froze in the position they
died. We stacked them like cordwood outside often to two meters
in height.

When we would come back in the morning they would be gone.
The night crew would have taken them to the crematoria. All we
would see on the ground were the ashes.

The first day I did this, I was sick. I vomited out my
stomach until there were nothing but dry heaves. And older
kommando came to me and said I must get back to work else I would
be in the stacks in the morning. I pulled myself together and
began to work again. Fear for my life galvanized me as much as
nausea paralyzed me.

I don’t know how I moved through the day. At night my
dreams were terrors. I do not know if I woke to my own screams
or the screams of other kommandos. We were given extra rations
and life and that is all I cared about.

I don’t know how long I did it. I remember the fine spring
day when I was collected with my beloved wife and children and
taken to the train. I still remember the smell of the flowers
before my life changed to this endless cycle. It is all that
holds me together as I have seen my beloveds in all the faces of
the dead.

I looked into their blue faces and saw what I might have
been and I was happy. I wished myself dead for being alive and
found solace in knowing my wish could not be granted. I loathed
myself every minute of the day and tormented myself by night.

I learned that hell is being alive when I should be dead.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 17:47:41 PDT 1996
Article: 49731 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Seven Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 4)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:12:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-31.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 10 6:14:01 PM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:49731 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:162

On 10 Jul 1996 20:15:27 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes of Ken McVay:
>> As he could not read the answer what would be the point?

> 1. Can you evidence that Ken has you in his killfile.

He has posted that many times. Of course if you are suggesting he is
lying …

> 2. If Ken is using a killfile, then someone could forward the answers
>to him.

No way. He asks questions, he sticks around to read the answers. No
surrogates permitted.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 17:47:41 PDT 1996
Article: 49733 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor flunkies learn some basics
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:13:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 1:15:26 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

When you log on to Nizkor next time, you will note they have mastered
the statement and have stolen an animated GIF from
some place.

It is all quite impressive what they have mastered in a year.

Who knows what the next year will bring.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 17:47:42 PDT 1996
Article: 49745 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I think Germans have an evil gene.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 05:18:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 12:19:43 AM CDT 1996
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On 10 Jul 1996 10:20:00 -0700, [email protected] (Richard J.
Green) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>ibokor wrote:
>>Nele Abels ([email protected]) wrote:
>>:
>>: To be honest, as a German, I would have problems assuming those who elaborate on
>>: on our terrible history being anti-German. On contrary, I think that being careful that
>>: these atrocities will never happen again is one of the main tasks of nowadays Germans.
>>: We are not guilty. But we are responsible.
>>:
>>
>>You are not responsible for the past if you are under fifty, sixty or
>>even a little older. But you, and all of today’s Germans are
>>responsible for coming to terms with the past, and all of you are
>>responsible to and for the future.
>>
>>This is a burden today’s Germans share with the rest of humanity.
>>The history of this century simply casts a longer and darker shadow
>>on some ethnic or national groups than others.
>>
>>It’s easier to have Scottish grandparents than German ones, as a rule.
>>I trust your grandchildren will be spared that handicap.

>Actually, I like Mr. Abels’ distinction between guilt and
>responsibility. In some sense we are all responsible (not for the past
>but for the future) at the same time we cannot evade responsibility for
>the past either. We citizens of the US have inherited the material
>results of another genocide. It seems to me that if we can inherit
>property, we should be able to inherit some responsibility (not guilt)
>too. In our case, I think our responsibility should manifest itself in
>how we treat the descendents of the the victims.

Just who in the hell is this “we” you are referring. Such things are
not heritable.

If you want to feel responsible, that is your problem.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 18:47:07 PDT 1996
Article: 49751 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 23:48:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 112
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:50:34 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:47:47 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Daniel Keren)

>## Such physical evidence exists for the Holocaust as well.
>## But you must know that.

># You know it does not.
>#
># There is not one picture of anyone on the roof of any building
># much less pouring in anything. But you know that.

>There is at least one photograph taken during a gassing action,
>which was verified by the people who participated in this gassing.
>But this is hardly the point; the point is that you seem to be
>saying that the only proof you can offer to Dresden’s bombing
>are the photographs of it.

If there is that one picture the holohuggers are doing a great job of
keeping it a secret. Where is it hidden?

But in fact the subject is that I can provide physical EVIDENCE of the
Dresden bombing that does not require one bit of eyewitness testimony
and I have indicated what that evidence consists of. Stop trying to use
proof. I have only said I would provide evidence.

>Before we continue, let us clarify this. “Revisionists” have, again
>and again, stated that documents and photographs don’t count, as
>they can be forgeries, and that they demand “physical evidence”.
>If this opinion holds no longer, the whole stupid game you’re
>playing has changed.

Should one of the thousands of documents I refer to make mention of a
100,000 pound bomb, rest assured it will not be used as evidence there
were 100,000 pound bombs used. It will be considered an abberation that
stands out from all the rest and is in need of separate explanation.

However, what the holohuggers have are a couple examples of an
abberation among thousands of documents and attempt to the use those
very few to rest the entire case. As a clear example, you say there may
be one photograph. That exists out of who knows how many that have no
bearing upon mass gassing whatsoever.

If you folks in fact had a clear paper trail of mass gassing there would
be no question about the claim. If there were logs, inventories,
gassing duty rosters, all the trappings that go with a large modern
organization then this conference would not exist. But the best you
folks can come up with it is a few isolated documents and one photograph
(maybe.)

># There is not one picture of any result from any “gas chamber”
># when opened but you know that.

>Not accurate – there’s a photograph showing the corpses
>outside of the gas chamber, in front of the smoking “burning
>ditch” in Birkenau. BTW, what would the equivalent picture be
>in the case of Dresden?

There a pictures of bodies outside a morgue? Sounds like it was
overflowing to me. Sounds like one of those many epidemics.

But then, just what about the bodies indicates the cause of death?

No need to go over it again. We have been over it many times. NOTHING
about the bodies indicates the cause of death.

Yet you so desparately want it to be true, you convert of morgue to a
gas chambers to explain bodies around it when no explanation is
necessary if one simply leaves it a morgue.

># There is sworn testimony of flesh and clothing forming
># gelatinous masses after exposure to HCN but you know that.

>I know that you’re lying through your teeth, as the testimony
>says that this happened because the corpses of the gassed
>people (in the first gassing, in Block 11), were left there
>for a few days,

TWO days.

which resulted in them starting to decompose.
>The testimony does not say that this happened because of the
>HCN. But you’re a pathological liar; you know that. We know
>that.

But, as you know, that is not a description of decomposing bodies at any
stage and nothing but a bit a bloating occurs in two days. Knowing that
you would try to explain the impossible description with something that
you know does not occur.

Why do you try to get away with doing that?

And who is this “we” you are talking about? Holohuggers?

># Your fucking mass gassing is a sham and you DO know that.

>Sorry, but all I know is that you’re a first-class intellectual
>zero, who is frustrated because of his failures in life, and
>who spreads lies and Nazi propaganda. You have not provided any
>evidence and any arguments as to the credibility of the
>history of the Holocaust.

And again, we are only talking about gassing at this point. It is
rather clear save to the diehard holohuggers the gassing stories are
nonsense. We can get on to the rest once enough of you folks are
deprogrammed.

From [email protected] Thu Jul 11 19:33:54 PDT 1996
Article: 49759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 00:26:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 7:28:15 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 12:13:16 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> But there exists no such evidence of mass gassings that you folks claim
>> which is the entire point, is it not?
>>

>But there exists such evidence. As good as the evidence of Dresden – at
>the very least.

That is what I am waiting to see.

>Pay attention, Matt! He’s already presented you with sufficient material
>for you to be able to complete the process yourself.

Sorry about that but I have seen his material and much more. There are
two documents that stand out of thousands for possibly referring to
gassing people. He now claims there might be one picture that would
directly indicate gassing. That is it.

As for Dresden, if you care to think it through, you can easily come up
with a dozen other forms of documentation that I have not mentioned that
exist around that raid.

>> > You have seen the Dresden evidence yourself? When and where?
>>
>> We will NOT start playing that game else I will have to start asking if
>> you have seen the original documents you are referring to, and not
>> permit repetition from books about the documents.

>I am holding up a photo in front of the screen. Can you not see it?!?

Scan it in and mail it to Nizkor.

>Let’s take this one to its absurd end, Matt. Remember Reductio ad
>absurdium?

>*I* saw original documents. My father saw original documents.

If you folks saw “original documents” spelling out gassing why have you
folks not told any historians where to find them?

>Now – have you seen original documents of Dresden?

>Yes or No, Matt. Have you?

Of course not and I sincerely doubt you have seen what you claim. I do
not see why they would be kept secret.

>It’s your argument back in your face – and you want to play that game to
>its absurd end?!?! You’ve used this one before and it was silly back
>then.

It appears silly is in the minds of the beholder. Although passing
denigrating descriptions is something quite common. You particular
affinity appears to be referring to prior discussions as though I am
repeating them here.

>> You pretense not to see the difference is becoming quite interesting. I
>> point out the documentation, from inventory records to bomb site
>> cameras, and you say there is nothing. I point to written planning and
>> briefing records and you say there was nothing. I point to German
>> corroborating documentation and you say there was nothing.

>NO! NO! NO! Where are the actual films of the bombs falling? The fire
>itself? The people burning alive?

Are you saying there were no bomb camera films? No reconnaisance
photos? How strange that they would conduct a bomb raid without such
standard practices. Burning people may not have been filmed but with
pictures of the fire storm and with burnt bodies found where the
firestorm was, one can possibly rule out suicide.

>People don’t “Glow Orange and Vanish”, Matt – so it never happened?

But as you see, the physical evidence that exists around Dresden does
not require a single eyewitness statement to reconstruct what happened.
Save for a few questionable bits of trivia this mass gassing relies
solely upon eyewitnesses.

So rather than negate Dresden the “glow orange and vanish” report is
simply an indication of minimal value of eyewitnesses to both Dresden
and gassing. And since you agree that such reports would eliminate
Dresden you would clearly agree they eliminate gassing.

However with Dresden such reports are completely unnecessary whereas
with gassing that is just about all there is.

>You have been presented with material *FAR BETTER* than that of Dresden
>- yet you accept that as sufficient and discard the evidence of the
>Holocaust?!?!

>When there was a concerted effort to destroy the evidence by the Nazis
>and then the Americans, yet so much remained – you say “Physical
>Evidence, Please”, yet accept the paltry amount about Dresden as proof?

>Such poor logic, Matt! You used to delight in catching others in such
>poor logic, yet now you use it.

You are in fact arguing a side in the same tired manner rather than
introducing anything new. You have no idea what I have been “presented”
over the months unless you are not particularly involved in that
contract.

But then why do you not recite the physical evidence that convinced you
that you are arguing the right side.

>> It appears you have no idea what you are talking about but would rather
>> try to waste my time on repetition.

>His analogies and evidence are solid, Matt.

>You’re begging the question.

>Why not just stick to the thread?

>> Which means you pretend there is not complete documentation even to the
>> point of connecting bomb lot numbers to the particular mission. You
>> have a truly fanstastic idea of what military records are like.

>See above.

>Does your son see these messages? Perhaps he should! You were a good
>”swordsman” in the wordplay. Now there’s only an echo left. Something is
>wrong here, Matt. Was I still a neophyte and you were always really like
>this? Have I over-estimated you? I doubt it.

I no longer consider this subject to be word play. Perhaps you with to
remain programmed.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49765 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It was amazing
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 06:05:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 11:06:52 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Some holohugging idiot gave me the reverse of the “cider in your eye”
challenge.

Were I looking for suckers, I should have said “I can prove the fire
bombing of Dresden to standards that do not exist for massive gassings.”
But I did not.

Rather first some fool challenged me to prove WW II occurred and I
ignored the foolish challenge. Next another (or the same) fool
challenged me to prove the fire bombing of Dresden occurred.

First I changed the ground rules from proof to the evidence. Proof is
for mathematics, not for the human condition.

Then came the asshole holohuggers playing their ancient games.

First they claimed with transparent falsity that Dresden was solely
based upon testimony as is their holocaust.

Next they claimed that one document of questionable origin was equal to
thousands of documents and press releases regarding the raid.

Finally they muddled down into mush of addressing nothing of any
particular interest but still maintaining their garbage is equivalent to
thousands of bureaucratic records documenting a never denied event.

Holohuggers are very foolish.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49766 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 01:56:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:58:13 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:07:22 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Making them a clear record of genocide by the murderous, proto-Nazi
>> Israelites.

>But the same bible that you treat so reverntly as a source of
>information has Yaweh, mighty creator and big Kahuna, telling them that
>they must do this!

>Are you now saying that God exists and practices evil?!?

>Or shall we take all of the other, non-biblical, documents of the period
>- where the mighty king/emperor/godson/whatever led his armies into
>total victory, wiping out every last member of the enemies
>tribe/village/city/nation?

>Are you now saying that Moses actually did part the Red Sea?!?

>If you claim parts of the bible are true, then you have to accept all of
>it – or else I can say “the genocide part isn’t true – only the Holy
>Chosen Ones” part.

>Like I said – your logic has disappeared completely. This is truly bad.

I am talking about the revered written history of the Jewish people who
have the first recorded acts of genocide in human history.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49770 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 01:33:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 111
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:35:17 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 96 16:47:35 GMT, [email protected] (Nele
Abels) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> Do not forget, you are one of the murderous Germans who participated in
>>the extermination of the Jews. No matter what you post here will not
>>absolve you of your guilt.

>This is what Mr. Giwer in his juvenile dialectics does not understand: the
>difference between guilt and responsibility.

There appears to distinction in your case. You parents lived in
Germany. They knew what was happening in the camps. They did nothing.

Is that not what passes for reasoning on this NG?

>> And if you want to say you were were not born at the time, then your
>>parents were the murders you are talking about.

>My grand-parents and great grand-parents. Yes, they were guilty in the sense
>that they were the Germans who let a clique of mass-murderers come to
>power. My grand-father was a soldier in the war against Russia. I don’t know
>whether he murdered Jews, and I did not ask him. Would _you_ have asked your
>grand-father such a question? Others in Germany have, by the way. This
>discourse was a central topic in the social changes in the sixties in
>Germany. But you won’t know anything about that…

I note you leave your parents out of this response. Any particular
reason? Good party members perhaps?

>> You are the descendant of murderers. Your father, your mother, your
>>uncles and your aunts. All of them murders. They all knew what was
>>going on. They all turned in Jews.

>Actually I do not know whether they turned in Jews or not. This could be, yes.
>They never have told me. But what difference does that make to my attitude
>towards the holocaust? Assuming your father murdered somebody, would you
>claim it was not a crime, just because it was done by your father?

To continue to pretend ignorance rather than asking sounds like the gays
who refuse the HIV test.

>> You familly is a disgrace.
>> That is, if you believe all of this nonsense.

>Let me say again, that I am not interested in the question of guilt. That
>the holocaust was a crime commited by the Germans is without doubt. Today
>we are _responsible_ that it does not happen again. And that means we
>have to oppose those like you, who try to whitewash the nazis in order
>to establish their own totalitarian system.

Guess what? I can not happen again in any manner that resembles how it
happened then. But folks like you are so focussed on every detail of
the Nazis that you would miss the next dictator as long as he wears a
business suit.

(You know who is talking about
>a revolution against the “liberal Government” in his essays, do you?)

Lots of people but against the fascist form of government the US has
become. Quite a few of us would like to have our constitution back.

I, on the other hand, clearly expect the government to start it which is
quite a different matter. It is something Germans should have done 60
years ago, responded in kind by killing Nazis before it got out of hand.

>> But, supply your favorite “excuse” to say they were not involved.
>>Certainly they saved Jews. Did not EVERYONE save Jews these days?

>Yawn! An old hat. Perhaps you and I would have done the same? Who knows?
>I do not know whether I could resist a totalitarian regime in the way the
>”White Rose” did. But I do all in my power to inhibit a new one emerging.
>Judgeing by your essays on your web-pages, I could imagine that you would
>be among the first to throw yourself into the arms of fascists when they
>would promise you to root out all those “idle couch-sloths” who get their
>living by the money “the State steals from you for the social services”.
>(You know who is talking in his essays about using those unused barracks
>as concentration camps for people relying on the social services, do you?)

Obviously you have not read my web pages. But then I do expect such
misrepresentation.

My suggestion of barracks is simply to reduce costs and make use of all
the bases we are closing in the aftermath of the cold war. Living there
is completely optional. They would be no different from homeless
shelters that run now, simply larger.

The difference of course would be that they would be the only place to
get free food and shelter, no cash, no food stamps, nothing. I fail to
see what your problem with that might be. People do not have a right to
social welfare in this country.

>You wouldn’t recognize fascists if they were pointed out to you.

That is because you insist they have to be antisemitic. But I recognize
government control over people who own businesses to affect political
goals every time I see it.

>>What the hell, even if they did, the Jews don’t want 250,000 individual
>>acts of life saving heroism even remembered.

>I vaguely remember somebody complaining about “Schindler’s List”, even
>here in this newsgroup…but that was not a Jew. Do you remember him
>too, Mr. Giwer?

I remember his wife’s opinion of him and the book.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:41 PDT 1996
Article: 49789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:44:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:46:00 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:32:21 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT,
>>[email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>> IDIOT.
>>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) takes exception:
>>
>> Now that is an insult to idiots.
>>
>>At least Mr. Giwer admits to being an idiot! Seems that Mr. Giwer is
>>intelligent enough to know when he is being insulted after all!

> I think the time is drawing nigh for a “The Best of Katz”.

Fritz the Katz?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:42 PDT 1996
Article: 49791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Perry Broad Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:44:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:45:50 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 19:13:13 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 09 Jul 96 17:04:11 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> >> You are trying a fool’s game and not answering the mail.
>>
>> >Funny that you mention it. Would you mind stopping your fool’s game and answer this
>> >teeny-weeny question:
>>
>> >Where in national socialist writings did you find the basis for your claim that the Nazis
>> >were not racist?
>>
>> As a German whose parents wanted to murder all Jews you have little room
>> to ask such questions.
>>
>> Your parents were murders as were your grandparents and you have no room
>> to talk until you apologize for their murders before this group and to
>> tell us all that you have accused them of being murderers to their
>> faces.

>How about me asking. I’m not German.

I was not talking to you.

Bugger off.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49792 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS allegedly SHUT DOWN, but might not have been
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:44:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:45:53 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 02:48:32 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: Of course no one here would ever make any complaints against any
>: website.
>:
>: I find their sanctimony charming.

>Hmm. By the record, there is only one frequent poster to a.r. who
>has ever tried to have an opponent’s web site shut down. That
>poster’s initials are MG…

Who might that be?

Several people here bragged about their repeated phone calls to my
provider.

Are you claiming a bad news feed?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:44:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:45:56 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:31:58 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># He admitted he lied under oath.
>#
># What more do you want?

>I said it very clearly: I want the full text of his testimony,
>not what “revisionists” claim he said. Why should we believe
>”revisionists”, who have proven themselves – numerous times –
>to be pathological liars?

>Ok?

Whatever you want. Look it up on Nizkor. He still lied under oath and
then redacted to avoid the felony penalty for same.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:44 PDT 1996
Article: 49795 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:14:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 9:16:14 PM PDT 1996
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:47:19 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to
># realize that the Israelites have the first written record of
># genocide in human history.

>So, now you’re saying that documents do count as evidence?

I said they were the first written records as you can plainly read. It
is still up in the air as to what if anything in those writing actually
occurred.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:45 PDT 1996
Article: 49796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH – A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:49:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:50:52 AM PDT 1996
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On 10 Jul 1996 21:42:54 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>
>> Minor question, which of the signers of the DOI was Jewish?

> None. There were no Jewish delegates to the Constitutional
>Convention so none could sign it. There were, however, a number of Jews who
>signed the Non-importation Agreements.

Very good, no contribution there.

>> Another minor question, what are the names of the “jews” who were
>> against the revolution and what did they do?

> There were a number of Jewish Loyalists. Among the most notable
>were Isaac Touro of Newport and Abraham Wagg of New York who, though
>disabled and in his 50’s served in a tory regiment. The most prominent Jewish
>loyalist family was the Franks family in New York. David Franks of New York
>served as commisary of British prisoners until 1778. His son served as an officer in
>a British regiment and his sister was the wife of Oliver DeLancey. (Oddly enough
>another member of the family — also named David Franks served on Washington’s
>personal staff). I could find no others who fought for the crown. There were a few
>others of questionable loyality to independence, but it was fairly rare. In contrast
>there were 283 Jews who served in American units.

Very good also. There was indeed no particular Jewish contribution any
more than there was a red haired people contribution.

>> Excuse me but that second question must have been too hard a
>question.
>> Would you like to try to rephrase it and answer in your own clever way?

> Now would you like to point out its relevanace. The fact is that a great
>majority of the 2500 or so Jews in America supported the Revolution. In my area
>there were three adult Jewish males. Two served in the Continental line, the third
>served in a volunteer capacity managing a hospital in Bethlehem. The fact is that
>L’il Tommy did not know or care about this. What he wanted to do was lie about
>Jews. This he did.

Quite impressive but not outstanding nor of more than statistical
interest.

Nothing beyond normal demographic distribution.

Where is your area anyway?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:45 PDT 1996
Article: 49797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:50:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 2:52:13 AM PDT 1996

On 10 Jul 1996 19:43 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 8 Jul 1996 23:16:57 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:
>>
>>> Ken McVay believes he can buy his way into the tribe and has yet
>>> to realize there is no way to do so.
>>
>>>Mr. Giwer believes he can provoke Mr. McVay with his vile insults and
>>>has yet to realize there is no way to do so.
>>
>> McVay is a self aggrandizing fool who permits hired underlings to speak
>>for him while he refuses to speak for himself.

> Why would he want to buy his way into a tribe of underlings?

> Oh yeah, I forogt. It was just a troll..

> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only interest
> is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially plausible, he
> has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing others
> of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts which
> contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
> emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted
> himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity
> that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.
> For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to: URL
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

> daniel david mittleman
>===========================================================================
> Quoth the H*ber: “Never! More!”

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lack of that pesky evidence thing again
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:19:17 GMT

1/28/87
SS Gruppenfuehrer Gerhard Klopfer, who served as state secretary in
the Party Chancellery under Martin Bormann and was the last surviving
member of the Wannsee Conference (at which it was alleged that details
were worked out for the “final solution”) dies in Heilbronn, West
Germany. Klopfer was charged with war crimes at Nuernberg, but the case
was dropped for lack of evidence, and in fact Klopfer was
permitted to resume practicing law in 1956. This lends credence to the
proposition that the Wannsee Conference had nothing to with with an
extermination program.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:46 PDT 1996
Article: 49798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:07:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 9:08:58 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 14:22:34 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:

>: I find it amazing the otherwise apparently rational people who swallow
>: crap like the bible stories.

>Does accusing the Jews of “inventing genocide” count as swallowing
>Bible stories, Matt? Does using the myths of a bronze-age tribe
>of nomads to justify the actions of an ostensibly civilized 20th-
>century nation count? Why the double standard, Matt?

Just tell me where you stand on the matter and I will answer your
questions.

Do you believe it is all BS and these Jews have been bemoaning their
suffering over nothing?

Or do you believe it is real and in fact they did invent genocide?

But in any event, I did state that they have the earliest written record
of if and the claim that they were doing it. Even David claimed it if I
am not mistaken but then the only record of his existance in in the same
collection of writings.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:47 PDT 1996
Article: 49800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Discussion with Giwer begins
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:59:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:26:17 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>>
>> > Please explain why you think the quote in question is “in the same
>> > league” as the homicidal gassings. It has been demonstrated that
>> > evidence for gassing includes eyewitness testimony, which this is
>> > not, along with confessions of the perpetrators, and corroborating
>> > physical evidence.
>>
>> Even if you insist upon confounding testimony with evidence these are
>> both testimony and therefore in the same league, category or whatever
>> you may wish to call it.

>Let’s be absolutely clear about this. You, Matt Giwer, are saying that
>the following quote is eyewitness testimony:

> “It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances
> were built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext
> that the people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were
> undressed and then driven to the building where the floor was
> electrified in a special way; there they were killed.”
>
> IMT VII, pp. 576-577.

>Is that correct?

I say it reads like eyewitness testimony in no manner different from
eyewitness testimony of any gassing testimony. Is that too hard for
you to understand?

>> You are, however, lacking physical evidence of gassing for the testimony
>> to corroborate (note the correct order not vice versa) as we have been
>> over many times.

>Yes, we have been over this many times, and long before you arrived
>in this forum, Mr. Giwer.

But you have not recited it here since I have been noticed here.

You’re wrong about there not being physical
>evidence, and you’re wrong about which comes first.

That is the idiot claim of the holohuggers who refuse to recognize the
requirements of physical evidence.

Furthermore, you
>have ignored the fact that there are numerous confessions to gassing
>and to witnessing gassing, and there are none to this electrified
>floor.

Both “testimonies” are in the same category. Sorry about that.

>But those are side issues and I refuse to get distracted.

You gassing, co-flunky is simply a myth to be addressed.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:47 PDT 1996
Article: 49807 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:13:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:15:26 AM CDT 1996

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 18:45:50 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:40:16 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>> ># Did god provide the bomb sight films?
>>
>> >But “revisionists” always say “photographs can be faked”.
>> >Surely, so can films.
>>
>> I am aware of no pictures that any holohugger has presented that have
>> ever been subjected to the claim that they are faked. Perhaps you can
>> provide a source for this groundless claim of yours? I thought not.

>Try looking up the name “Butz, Arthur R” sometime. I understand he is
>mentioned on the web site that also has that “Tale of Two Gassings”
>page you so kindly posted the HTML code for.

Sorry about that, not there.

False captioning, certainly. That is obvious. Faked pictures, no.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:48 PDT 1996
Article: 49808 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:17:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:18:50 AM CDT 1996
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On 11 Jul 1996 03:55:08 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 19:45:49 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But
>>>> >> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality
>>>> >> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of
>>>> >> course.
>>>>
>>>> >On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit
>>>> >by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike?
>>>>
>>>> Did god provide the bomb sight films?
>>
>>>Obviously faked. Why would anyone take pictures or make any kind
>>>of notes about a crime they were in the progress of committing?
>>>Did at any time those films show a big sign saying “Welcome to
>>>Dresden”? Can you produce one of these alledged bombers?
>>
>>>(See, it’s easy to use the Revisionist Method!)
>>
>> However that is not the “revisionist method” in the least.
>>
>> The revisionist method is to point out that there are not even faked
>>pictures of gassing being presented. No pictures at all. NOTHING in
>>the way of physical evidence.

> No, the revisionist method is to reject all such pictures and evidence
>as being faked or improperly/questionably captioned

Only the latter and then not improperly but creatively captioned.

We already have agreement that damning pictures were not permitted so
there can be no such pictures.

or not showing the
>cause of death of the dead bodies in the picture or not proving that live
>people were in the room at the same time as the cyanide whose traces still
>linger in the walls. Point to the cyanide traces, they don’t show people
>in the room. Show pictures of dead people, they don’t indicate that
>cyanide was the cause of death. Round and round and round we go….

But then we have agree that pictures of the “gassed dead” were
prohibited so they do not exist.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:49 PDT 1996
Article: 49809 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CODOH shut down
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 01:00:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 8:02:05 PM CDT 1996
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:45:21 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>DvdThomas wrote:
>>
>> Yale Edeiken wrote:
>>
>> defamatory material printed in an advertisement. The real legal debate is
>> whether
>> an ISP claiming “common carrier” status has a duty to monitor after they
>> are put on
>> notice of actionable material.
>>
>> ******
>>
>> Thanks very much for outlining this issue. I only had a fuzzy idea of
>> what it involved and your explanation is quite clear.

>Once a carrier is notified of illegal activity through the use of
>his/her equipment, the carrier is, indeed, responsible for the content
>if the carrier has any way of determining the content.

>In the case of Web pages, this is very true. They reside on his/her
>hardware and are no longer simply “passing thru”. The “carrier” is then
>in the position of being the originator.

>If any libellous material is present, then the carrier can be sued. This
>has been in the courts.

>If the material is accessible in places where it is unlawful, then the
>carrier can (providing that reciprocity exists between the carrier’s
>place and the other) be sued – even if there is no equivalent law in the
>carrier’s place. The carrier can even be arrested!

>I used place rather than country, because it could also mean state or
>province.

>In the case of Canadian anti-hate law, an American carrier could be
>forced to remove the web pages if a Canadian web page has a link to it –
>or else block it from leaving the US.

How could it be criminal for a US to violate that Canadian law when it
has no force in the US and would be specifically prohibited in the US?

If Canada doesn’t want it, Canada can stop it from getting in.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:49 PDT 1996
Article: 49813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:03:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:14:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> The Jews themselves were conquered three recorded times (Babylon,
>> Macedonia, Rome) and no genocide against them is recorded.

>Ten tribes lost forever.

None were found in Somalia? Whose history are you rewriting now?

But in any event, there is no record as to what happened to them in any
form. Since there is nothing recorded about outside actions to account
for the disappearance it sounds more like they were followers of one or
more of the other six gods and lost some form of internal genocidal
combat over which god would be in charge.

After all if six gods can disappear, can ten tribes be far behind?
Suggesting other groups were the cause of the disappearance without
explaining why the two remaining tribes suffered no particular losses is
rather difficult.

>> It is like Christians today claiming to be a peacable lot when all of
>> history informs of that it is only the lack of the power to be predatory
>> muderers that makes them peacable today. It is the same with these
>> Jews.

>Please show where Jews practiced Genocide.

>Not the Biblical Hebrews – the Jews.

Those who still keep Mosaic law in some form or other are those I am
talking about.

>While you’re at it, please point out the physical evidence of such
>genocide.

>Oh, yes – don’t forget pointing out the physical evidence of Jaweh’s
>existence.

>Your logic is getting worse every day.

If, on the other hand, you wish to agree that the entire thing is a
crock then we are back to the, there are no Jews situation including no
claim upon Israel and all the rest. We are stuck with a mess of fools
doing all this “suffering” for thousands of years over absolutely
nothing. Very strange people.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:50 PDT 1996
Article: 49818 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 03:31:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 10:32:54 PM CDT 1996
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On Thu, 11 Jul 96 12:02:00 +0100, [email protected] (ANGUS
MCLELLAN) wrote:

>In article <31e3a848.1328800#news.pacificnet.net>
>[email protected] (tom moran) whines

>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>> There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>>
>>> It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to
>>> realize that the Israelites have the first written record of
>>> genocide in human history.
>>>
>>> Do not believe me.
>>>
>>> Read your fine bible.
>>>
>>> Then get back to me.
>>>

>> The exact passages can be found in “Deuteronomy”, “Numbers” and
>>”Joshua”.

>> They usually end up with something like ‘and none remained,
>>young and old’.

>Deuteronomy ? That’s in that book where God creates the world in six
>days and Methuselah lives to be a thousand, is it not ?

That is Genesis.

Same book where
>the Red Sea parts for Moses and his pals, where God sends ten plagues to
>Egypt

Exodus.

and the walls of Jericho fall down when some guys toot a couple of
>horns.

Joshua.

Yeah, right up there with Le Morte d’Arthur, the Protocols of the
>Elders of Zion and Albert Speer’s memoirs as a reliable historical
>source.

With that I would agree, but then I do not revere it as the basis for a
form of group identity.

BTW: You should get around to reading it some day. Then you would know
what is in which book.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:51 PDT 1996
Article: 49843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 07:56:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 2:58:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 23:25:17 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> On 9 Jul 1996 12:46:57 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>> Stein) wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Who put the caption on the films? How do you know what town is down
>> >there? Is there some sort of big sign like there is in Hollywood, saying
>> >”Dresden?”
>>
>> You are playing games. Official records of reel nunbers assigned to
>> particular operations exist.

> Such things are easily forged. The CIA is very good at that sort of thing.

But there is no claim of forgery for the holohugger evidence, only
twisted interpretation.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 07:00:52 PDT 1996
Article: 49844 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 07:58:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
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On 12 Jul 1996 03:03:19 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>> The revisionist method is to point out that there are not even faked
>>pictures of gassing being presented. No pictures at all. NOTHING in
>>the way of physical evidence.

>”There are no fakes, therefore it didn’t happen”.

>This is logic?!?!

Obviously it is not but that is not what I said, so why beat a straw
man?

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 12:40:37 PDT 1996
Article: 49894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE IS allegedly SHUT DOWN, but might not have been
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 01:54:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:56:18 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 14:17:43 GMT, [email protected] (william c
anderson) wrote:

>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>: On 11 Jul 1996 02:48:32 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>: anderson) wrote:

>: >Hmm. By the record, there is only one frequent poster to a.r. who
>: >has ever tried to have an opponent’s web site shut down. That
>: >poster’s initials are MG…
>:
>: Who might that be?
>:
>: Several people here bragged about their repeated phone calls to my
>: provider.

>As far as I know, nobody here has ever tried to get your website
>shut down, Matt. Several people have tried to get you to stop your
>persistent spamming, but that’s not what we were talking about. Do
>try to keep up, okay?

Quite false. At the time the complaints were the usual, “Why are you
letting a Nazi use your service,” kind of thing. It was all part of the
campaign to shut off anyone who disagrees with the holohuggers. It was
assumed that the mere mention of “antisemitic” would work.

When that did not work they made enough voice and email contacts to
disrupt their normal business activities. That is what is known as a
campaign of harrassment. It was a mere extension of what you have seen
here.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 17:21:46 PDT 1996
Article: 49911 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:17:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 9:19:14 PM PDT 1996
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:53:50 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>
>>
>> Give it up. Alec is right. You are not intellectually capable of
>> dealing with what is presented to you. If you had half the mind you
>> delude yourself into thinking you have, you would not need to lie and
>> deceive and evade the way you do.
>>

>What is the molecular weight of HCN? What is the effective molecular
>weight of air?

I will be interested in reading his answer.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 18:45:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:56:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 144
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 4:58:20 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 96 14:20:04 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>>This is what Mr. Giwer in his juvenile dialectics does not understand: the
>>>difference between guilt and responsibility.

>> There appears to distinction in your case. You parents lived in
>>Germany. They knew what was happening in the camps. They did nothing.
>> Is that not what passes for reasoning on this NG?

>Please observe that Mr. Giwer is so eager to burst out with his respones that he can’t
>even be bothered with reading the whole text. When I mentioned guilt and
>responsibility, I was speaking of my humble self, of course. I really wonder why
>they didn’t teach him patience in school or in the forces.

>>>My grand-parents and great grand-parents. Yes, they were guilty in the sense
>>>that they were the Germans who let a clique of mass-murderers come to
>>>power. My grand-father was a soldier in the war against Russia. I don’t know
>>>whether he murdered Jews, and I did not ask him. Would _you_ have asked your
>>>grand-father such a question? Others in Germany have, by the way. This
>>>discourse was a central topic in the social changes in the sixties in
>>>Germany. But you won’t know anything about that…

>> I note you leave your parents out of this response. Any particular
>>reason? Good party members perhaps?

>No, they were born in 1942.

Making you a kid maybe in your 20s?

>>>Actually I do not know whether they turned in Jews or not. This could be, yes.
>>>They never have told me. But what difference does that make to my attitude
>>>towards the holocaust? Assuming your father murdered somebody, would you
>>>claim it was not a crime, just because it was done by your father?

>> To continue to pretend ignorance rather than asking sounds like the gays
>>who refuse the HIV test.

>Please note that in contrary to Mr. Giwer I do not claim that I always and infallably
>do the right thing. I still would not ask my grand-parents, even if I could. They are
>dead by now. But, on the other hand, I have no reason to believe that Mr. Giwer
>who seems to believe in a traditional strong family structure would ask his father
>or grand-father such a question. Apart from that please realize that Mr. Giwer has
>overlooked (left out maliciously) my mentioning that there are others who have.

>>>Let me say again, that I am not interested in the question of guilt. That
>>>the holocaust was a crime commited by the Germans is without doubt. Today
>>>we are _responsible_ that it does not happen again. And that means we
>>>have to oppose those like you, who try to whitewash the nazis in order
>>>to establish their own totalitarian system.

>> Guess what? I can not happen again in any manner that resembles how it
>>happened then. But folks like you are so focussed on every detail of
>>the Nazis that you would miss the next dictator as long as he wears a
>>business suit.

>Yes, Mr. Giwer described correctly that I carefully observe the details of historical
>structures, something of which he seems to be incabable. And because I work
>thoroughly I am even able to find fascist and antisemitic traits in people who
>scream “No, I’m not!” (See below) The notion that it is not possible that fascism
>should emerge again is naive. Why not? Because we have Mr. Giwer with his
>famous trigger-finger? Ridiculous… Mr. Giwer sees the symptoms for tyranny in the
>state demanding taxes for social services. I see the symptoms for tyranny in the
>restriction of civil rights like free speech and freedom of the movement. The reader
>may decide which symptoms are more plausible.

>>>(You know who is talking about revolution against the “liberal Government” in
>>> his essays, do you?)

>> Lots of people but against the fascist form of government the US has
>>become. Quite a few of us would like to have our constitution back.
>> I, on the other hand, clearly expect the government to start it which is
>>quite a different matter. It is something Germans should have done 60
>>years ago, responded in kind by killing Nazis before it got out of hand.

>I do not understand these two sentences. Is Mr. Giwer trying to say that the government
>has to rechange itself to a form following the constitution? But then, what
>is the meaning of his ominous reavings that “the people should take that matter
>into their hand?”

>>>(You know who is talking in his essays about using those unused barracks
>>>as concentration camps for people relying on the social services, do you?)

>> Obviously you have not read my web pages. But then I do expect such
>>misrepresentation.
>> My suggestion of barracks is simply to reduce costs and make use of all
>>the bases we are closing in the aftermath of the cold war. Living there
>>is completely optional. They would be no different from homeless
>>shelters that run now, simply larger.
>> The difference of course would be that they would be the only place to
>>get free food and shelter, no cash, no food stamps, nothing. I fail to
>>see what your problem with that might be. People do not have a right to
>>social welfare in this country.

>Yes, I have read your web-pages. Your noble cause is “defending the civil rights.” But
>who have the “civil rights”? Those who have property.

That is no place on my website. Why would you insist upon making up
such a thing?

People who have lost their
>property, their health or their ability to work, or even their work-place in a time of
>recession are in tough luck. Your ideal state will not give them any support. The only choice
>they have is to starve or to go into one of your concentration camps.

That is not on my site either. Why would you say such a thing?

That’s some
>”option”, yeah. There, their remaining few pieces of property will be stored away,
>they will be guarded and be submitted to body searches. That’s nothing else then
>losing most of their civil rights.

You have no concept of the drug problem in this country. You also have
no concept of civil rights. These people have another option, the right
to work. And as noted we already have hundreds of private places for
the homeless all over the country and all run by private charities. I
have suggested nothing that it is not in them including work for your
keep and added medical care and education.

I cannot remember exactly, but in another of your
>essays you don’t seem very happy that they should keep there right to vote. And
>what is this all? A nice little step into the direction of a totalitarian state. The nazis
>themselves hid their total oppression behind the mask that there measures would
>benefit the “healthy Volksgenossen”. Thus your outer argumentational layer
>doesn’t mean anything.

The voting question has been a serious one since the vote was invented.
It is a simple question of should people have the power to vote the
treasury for themselves and if so, why?

Now if the constitution were to be adhered to, there would be no problem
with who can vote. But in the US the process of some voting themselves
the treasury is well underweigh. In fact it has progressed to the point
where those programs are heading the country towards bankruptcy.

If you truly realized just how far things have gone in country away from
the Constitution you would realize how far things have gone downhill.
You would also be much less complacent about the US in this world.

Despite what the clowns here think, if the president can order the
invasion of Grenada and Panama on his own initiative, he can order the
invasion of Germany.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 12 18:45:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH – A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 00:42:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <31de700a.6[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 5:44:15 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 18:55:26 GMT, [email protected] (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) whines:

> Minor question, which of the signers of the DOI was Jewish?

>A much better question, which of the signers of the Declaration of
>Independence represented only himself? The answer is, none of them!

>So, the real question is which signer represented a large Jewish
>constituency?

None. But perhaps you would like to answer that yourself. Which one?

> Another minor question, what are the names of the “jews”
> who were against the revolution and what did they do?

>An even better question would be: When will Mr. Giwer stop asking
>questions long enough to answer one himself? So far, he has never,
>ever answered even a single, solitary question in all the months that
>he has been posting.

Just which of YOUR questions do you want answered?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49931 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.dgsys.com!tahiti.netreach.net!news1.digex.net!ctd.comsat.com!coral.bucknell.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CODOH shut down
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:47:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:48:59 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:10:44 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes, seeking comprehension:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> No organization can both claim to desire common carrier status as an ISP
>> and censor what they carry.

>Double talk, nonsense. Spam and eggs over cooked, lousey potatoes,
>muddy coffee, shitty attitude with the waitress, who also is hung
>over.
>Gywer. I beg you to get a hold of yourself! Or is that your problem?
>Chuck

You are only demonstrating Altzheimer’s.

Consult your physician.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:09 PDT 1996
Article: 49932 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:52:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:53:47 AM PDT 1996
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On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 22:55:07 GMT, [email protected] (Harry W. Mazal
OBE) wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:48:18 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:

>>On Sat, 06 Jul 1996 19:54:38 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
>>wrote:

>Mr. Van Alstine’s reasoned text deleted for brevity]

>> But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? Or the
>>hollow two inch nails to get between the ribs?
>>
> Isn’t it odd how the troll-gnome spews idiocy after idiocy?

>1) Who mentioned 6″ needles?

Those who suggested there was a direct injection to the heart. Just how
far to do you think it is from any easy penetration point to the heart
given the rib cage?

>2) 6″needles (if required) most assuredly exist. Becton Dickinson
>manufactures them to this day. For example catalog number 1364,
>manufactured with a regular bevel for infiltration anaesthesia…
>20 gauge, 6″ (15cm) long. Yes, they were available in Germany
>at the time through V. Mueller.

Fine with me but then the “victims” are not reported to notice anything
unusual.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:10 PDT 1996
Article: 49933 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:56:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:58:06 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:06:49 -0700, Marty Kelley
wrote:

>On 8 Jul 1996, Charles Don Hall wrote:

>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Harry W. Mazal OBE wrote:
>> >On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 19:48:18 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart? Or the
>> >>hollow two inch nails to get between the ribs?
>>
>> In keeping with the noble alt.revisionism tradition of citing
>> movies as primary reference material, I’d just like to point
>> out that _Pulp_Fiction_ is out on video.
>>
>> One scene demonstrates the technique used to inject medicine
>> directly into the heart. It requires a steady hand and a
>> little upper-body strength, but it seems feasible enough.
>> They *did* need to use a special syringe with a long needle,
>> but it didn’t look very complicated, and I think it would be
>> possible to make one using 1930’s technology.

>Actually, Mr. Giwer has already used the extensive knowledge of medical
>techniques that he gained from this film to argue that injections to the
>heart would be _too difficult_ to administer.

OF course the above is what you will repeat forever and ever but in fact
I only pointed out the lack of a mention of such a needle.

And again you holohuggers will lie about what I have said for months to
come, perhaps even getting into the McVay spam.

>I’ll admit I’m _not_ an expert on the technique, but I am betting that
>Tarrantino probably exaggerated the amount of force necessary to deliver a
>shot between the ribs. Any actual MD’s or RN’s out there to help settle
>this one?

I don’t know about an MD but a knife better guess the rib angle exactly
right to penetrate and not be hung up on the bone.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49934 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.dgsys.com!tahiti.netreach.net!news1.digex.net!ctd.comsat.com!coral.bucknell.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:57:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09 1:59:12 AM PDT 1996
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On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 19:39:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
># [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>## Well, because the Nazis weren’t “experimenting” with phenol
>## shots. The Nazis used phenol shots as a method of execution
>## for the sick and invalided in the infirmaries. As to the time
>## it took to kill- a phenol shot to the heart killed in a matter
>## of seconds.

># But where did they get the six inch needles to reach the heart?

>You need a needle six inches long to reach the heart?

>Even if so, is the Giwer really claiming that Nazi Germany could
>not manufacture, or find, needles long enough to reach the heart?

I am in fact claiming that there is no mention of this “minor” point any
place else in the literature.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:11 PDT 1996
Article: 49939 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical evidence
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 01:38:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-19.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 6:40:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:15:45 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> Your memories are quite different than mine.

>I suppose I should try and hunt up the posting of yours where you
>accused me and Lester of “double-teaming” you. Not much of an excuse,
>Matt – but it’s there.

>Try to remember.

Hunt then ALL up. You have that big site unpreparation, remember?

>> >Back to your comment:
>>
>> >Please show where Mr. Eideken said that the evidence never existed.
>>
>> Try this instead of editing next time.
>>…
>> Perhaps you could otherwise interperate this statement?

>That the evidence does exist, but that your criteria for its use is
>irrelevantly constraining.

>Pretty obvious, actually.

Do so.

>> >Back to Matt Giwer:
>>
>> >I was hoping to have a real demo to show the others in this newsgroup on
>> >how to defeat your contentions. I figured that they’d get an eye-opener.
>>
>> >Instead, it would be an eye-closer.
>>
>> Certainly good sir. All huff and bluff as you have been since you
>> arrived.

>So far all I’ve seen is that you no longer respond to the challenge with
>even the fabrications that you used to be proud of. Just noise.

Agreed good sir, you opinion of yourself have never slackened.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:12 PDT 1996
Article: 49942 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:47:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 6:49:20 PM PDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:39:07 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> But in fact the subject is that I can provide physical EVIDENCE of the
>> Dresden bombing that does not require one bit of eyewitness testimony
>> and I have indicated what that evidence consists of. Stop trying to use
>> proof. I have only said I would provide evidence.

>Nope! You can’t present evidence – since you must prove that it’s
>legitimate and can’t, using the ground rules that you’ve created
>previously.

>You painted yourself into a corner, Matt.

>Polemics, posturing, pretending that you didn’t – all for naught.

>A year from now, maybe 2, I’ll notice you trying the same thing again –
>and I’ll send a “reminder” of your failures, here, in Debate, in
>Soapbox, in Controv…

>I told you exactly what I do.

Very good. But it appears you are no better than any of the other
holohuggers here in your methods.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:13 PDT 1996
Article: 49954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:16:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11 9:18:39 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 10:48:49 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 11 Jul 1996 04:30:26 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:03:11 +0200, [email protected] (Holger
>>>>Skok) wrote:

>[discussion of safety measures in American gas chambers deleted for space]

>>>>>Of course the American State governments having gas chambers
>>>>>operated in their prisons go to very great lengths to protect the
>>>>>guards operating the chambers. They don’t want to get sued by
>>>>>some disgruntled guard over having suffered cyanide poisoning
>>>>>and now not being able to smoke without coughing, or something
>>>>>like that.
>>>>
>>>> On the flip side of the news, according to absolutely reliable and
>>>>unquestionable eyewitnesses, there was no concern whatsoever about
>>>>anyone dying and no reports of any of them doing so.
>>>>
>>>> Further we have clear claims by the holohuggers that this gas was
>>>>exhausted from an uncertain number of “little chimneys” approximately at
>>>>ground level without regard to who might have been down wind of it.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with your explanation is that it is totally your creation
>>>>and not supported in any manner by the eyewitnesses.
>>
>>
>>> The problem with your response is that the revisionist writer
>>>Friedrich Berg has admitted that the delousing chambers at Auschwitz did
>>>not have any high chimneys either.
>>
>> I speak for myself.
>>
>> Tell it to him.

> Your physical evidence of chimneys on the delousing chambers? None,
>of course.

I have made no claims as to their being on delousing chambers. But you
know that.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:14 PDT 1996
Article: 49959 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 06:45:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 11:46:58 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:56:26 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> I am talking about the revered written history of the Jewish people who
>> have the first recorded acts of genocide in human history.

>Please provide evidence that this is part of Jewish history.

>Please connect this to your claim that Jews aren’t really descendents of
>the Hebrews but are Khazars.

>Please try to use logic.

The problem with the holohuggers is that all things are true at the same
time and any disagreement with each other is on the order of being done
for show rather than in fact.

However to use your approach to it, the choice of claiming a name and
membership is one that claims the history of the Hebrews/Israelites.
The name changes in the middle of Exodus so it is unclear which is the
proper name or whether they are interchangeable. However there are
enough subesequent references to the “your fathers in bondage” to
indicate interchangeability is a reasonable presumption.

So if the Khazar Jews claim membership by means of adoption of these
writtings, customs and conditions then they were choosing membership in
all of these traditions without specific exception.

=====

On the other hand what really gets to me about a presumed realist such
as yourself is that you are not simply saying that genocide was not
considered anything significant until this century, in fact the post VE
Day part of this century, and getting on with the discussion.

All you appear to be objecting to is the application of the label to
past events. Joshua for openers, David has one or two, ever met a
Carthaginian?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:15 PDT 1996
Article: 49960 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It was amazing
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 06:04:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 1:06:02 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:59:38 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 12 Jul 1996 02:38:43 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
>>
>> >In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> >> Some holohugging idiot gave me the reverse of the “cider in your eye”
>> >>challenge.
>>
>> >Matt, you lost that one. This is your way of trying to make a loss look like
>> >a victory.
>>
>> >Pity.
>>
>> As anyone but a gross newcomer to public debate knows there are no
>> winners or losers.

>You truly do believe that, don’t you? Ah, well – if it makes life
>tolerable for you.

>On the other hand, if you do believe that, your “advance to the rear”
>message is even more silly.

>Why not try tracking your threads, Matt?

>> It is unclear why someone with your pretended experience would promote
>> such an idea when you have previously publically ridiculed people making
>> your kind of claim.

>Since I have not “ridiculed” anyone, but merely pointed out to people
>that you would not believe that you had lost and therefore their efforts
>to prove it to you would fail – I can only say that your memory is
>severely impaired.

>As for my experience – as I’ve stated before, I win because I stick to
>the truth and therefore gain the support of those that are interested in
>that. I’ve been debating for years, Matt – and if you have any doubts of
>that, remember that I was already an “old timer” when you showed up in
>Soapbox.

Rather foolish, actually. You know, if you are experienced, that there
is no support gained any place but the lurkers. Participants have sides
before they join in and do not change sides.

You should know that by now.

>BTW – how many people have you persuaded that you are so valuable on
>their side that they go out of their way to give you helpful toys?

>Do you know what the cost of a dedicated T1 is worth?

Down this way it costs $1000 per month plus $900 per month (GeniTlE) for
the loopback. What is it up your way?

What it is worth is something else.

>Matt – I will again remind you of the story of the Local Champion.

Why not post it?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:15 PDT 1996
Article: 49961 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 07:17:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 12:19:19 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:07:14 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># I said they were the first written records as you can plainly
># read. It is still up in the air as to what if anything in those
># writing actually occurred.

>I take it, then, that you *do not* claim that the early
>Israelites, or whoever, committed “genocide”?

I said they have the earliest written records of genocide. I leave it
up to the believers and the unbelievers to separately make of that what
they will.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 49962 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 07:15:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 12:17:09 AM PDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:19:30 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:14:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>> None were found in Somalia? Whose history are you rewriting now?

>No – none were found in Somalia. If you speak of the Bene Ysroel of
>Ethioia – these are of a separate group.

>And yet you claim to know the history? Tsk!

Excuse, not history, current events. There were evacuations out of
Somalia of members of these lost folk into Israel in the last few years.
You missed them? They were conducted by Israel.

There was also a recent scandal in Israel about taking their blood
donations and then trashing them using AIDS as the excuse.

>> But in any event, there is no record as to what happened to them in any
>> form. Since there is nothing recorded about outside actions to account
>> for the disappearance it sounds more like they were followers of one or
>> more of the other six gods and lost some form of internal genocidal
>> combat over which god would be in charge.

>No – you really should check out your history before opening mouth and
>inserting foot, Matt!

>Try the Assyrian invasions, among others.

There were plenty of invasions, all quite successful, limiting any
claims to the region by those folks who choose some name or other or
ancestory or belief.

>The closest that the Hebrews came to internal conflict of a religious
>type was when Ezra destroyed the duo-theistic worship places and made
>Jaweh numero uno.

>That’s duo-theistic, with ten tribes already lost and only Judea

Judah, Judea was a region.

and
>Israel left.

>Simple history, Matt.

At least you need to get that point through to your monotheists
compatriots here.

>Good grief, you’re walking into every trap that I set – like a robot?
>What the hell is wrong with you? I feel like I’m a hunter and you’ve
>been set and drugged for an easy kill!

Rather this well laid trap appears to have its resolution in Ezra
destroying those other 10 tribes in a mini-genocide of sorts by internal
means not external.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:17 PDT 1996
Article: 49963 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email ‘bombings’?
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 07:22:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 2:24:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:14:39 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yawn was consider juvenile before you discovered BBSs.

>Try harder, Matt. You haven’t come up with an original insult in months!

I hardly see this to be the conference for insults but I will work on
one just for you if you wish.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:18 PDT 1996
Article: 49964 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why don’t historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 07:27:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 2:29:29 AM CDT 1996
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On 12 Jul 1996 09:39 MST, [email protected] (Danny
Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…

>> For those who happen to follow US partisan politics there is an obvious
>>and clear example that has been running for the couple weeks.
>>
>> Bob Dole said that he did not think cigarettes habit forming only
>>addictive.

> This is not what he said.

>> Now clearly addiction means that tolerance level increases quickly and
>>the dosage increases to obtain the same effect. The common example is
>>opium and it derivatives.

> This is not a good definition of addiction.

>> Yet clearly the term addictive in the US has come to have no meaning and
>>that any substance (substance only) that is hard to stop using must be
>>called addictive. Addictive means clearly, hard to stop using.

> No, that is what habit forming means. Addiction means a physical
> dependence on the substance. And nicotine (in cigarettes) is
> addictive.

People develop a physical dependence upon the endorphins released by the
feelings of love.

Yet we know there are people who can walk away from both love and
cigarettes, they are rare but they exist.

And before you jump into the “dangers” reconsider the Romeo and Juliet
scenario of the life threatening dangers of love.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:19 PDT 1996
Article: 49966 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 08:20:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 1:22:19 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:27:49 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Holger Skok) wrote:

>> You are correct that HCN is
>> not crystallized. What goes under the name of Zyklon B is in fact HCN
>> adsorbed to some carrier substance, mostly diatomaceous “earth”.

>According to most eyewitnesses, actually, it was Erco, which has silica
>gel as its carrier. (The same stuff that comes in the “Do Not Eat”
>dessicant packets when you buy a camera.) To the layman they look like
>they might be crystals.

You are making it up, but you know that. There has been not one post
documenting what ERCO is much less that it is silica gel. That is still
a fabrication of you holohuggers.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:19 PDT 1996
Article: 49970 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: zero risk websites
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:02:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 2:03:58 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Within a couple a three months I expect to announce the availability of
bullet proof web server that does not give a damn about content and in
fact encourages inflamatory but US legal (meaning no kiddie porn but
that is about it) content.

Stay tuned for the Thomas Paine net, coming to an IPS near you.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:20 PDT 1996
Article: 49974 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CODOH shut down
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:55:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 2:56:52 AM PDT 1996
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On 13 Jul 96 01:29:04, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[CODOH shut down] [Fri 12 Jul 96 04:05][Fri 12 Jul 96 23:25][0]*>

> >> When he sends the signal over the border, it’s under Canadian
> >> law. IOW – he must assure that it doesn’t get here.

> mnc> The common carrier does the sending, not the web site owner.
> mnc> The web site owner has no control over what the common carrier
> mnc> does.

>Until the carrier is informed that the web site violates Canadian
>Law. Then the carrier is required to block the illegal material.

>Note that the above is theory, not practice. It does give some folks
>leverage, though.

Of course it is theory. And about as stupid as all Canadian law that
pretends to muzzle unpopular speech.

But there is no way to deal with mutually incompatible laws across the
border. The Canadians laws here are those.

This is no more stupid than trying to enforce a Cuban law against
defaming Castro in a US court. Canada has no greater standing in the US
courts than Cuba.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:21 PDT 1996
Article: 49976 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: class action lawsuit
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:31:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:33:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Is there anyone here interested in a class action lawsuit against McVay
and Nizkor?

I will be collecting these and forwarding them to an attorney who may be
or may not be interested in the case depending upon the responses and
the documentation supporting those responses.

Please respond email.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:22 PDT 1996
Article: 49977 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!delmarva.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: unsolicited info of a lurker’s opinion
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:15:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 1:16:58 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

It amounts to total disgust with the holohuggers and their tactics.

You folks who think you are defending something are damning it.

But you will never learn.

Anyone provoking you folks in the least manner condemns your position
more than the provocation.

But you will continue to jerk your knees on request list trained animals
which is the closest thing to a compliment you folks will ever get.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:22 PDT 1996
Article: 49979 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: interesting event
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:52:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:54:40 AM CDT 1996
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The holohuggers have accepted both Alec Grynspan and Rack Jite (aka
David Dahlman) even though David Dahlman has condemned both of us.

What strange folks he holohuggers are.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:23 PDT 1996
Article: 49980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:44:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:46:16 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Jul 96 20:45:50, [email protected] (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [[email protected]] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )] [Fri 12 Jul 96 >04:37][Fri 12 Jul 96 20:11][0]*>

> >>> That’s not relevant except to prove the the person in question
> >>> can’t add.

> >> Hint: Hydrogen has a lower molecular weight. It rises.

> mnc> Hint: You are out of your depth but your fellow holohuggers
> mnc> will not tell you that.

>Second hint: Chlorine has a higher molecular weight. It falls.

>There’s more clue here than you think. Remember that I’m telling you
>everything that you need to see the answer.

>Just like the Followup-to: It’s there for you to see.

>Remember that anybody can do it, Matt.

You blew it, fool. Dead meat in the Dahlman category. Never noticed
you any better including my posts you attributed to him.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49981 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why don’t historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 06:51:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 1:53:27 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 11 Jul 1996 14:47:00 -0400, [email protected] (DvdThomas) wrote:

>A great problem with the orthodox gas chamber story and alleged history is
>that is has not been exposed to the rigors of academic examination and
>review. Any attempts to instigate same have been met with barrages of
>abuse, and Deborah Lipstadt illogic referring to some nebulous evil in
>even discussing the subject critically. Spokesmen for the Max Plank
>Institute made some public comments in this regard during the Rudolf
>Report controversy. “Some things we simply must accept without question”
>was the gist of the statements. Methinks the protest is out of proportion
>to the situation–unless there’s something to hide or protect.

For those who happen to follow US partisan politics there is an obvious
and clear example that has been running for the couple weeks.

Bob Dole said that he did not think cigarettes habit forming only
addictive.

Now clearly addiction means that tolerance level increases quickly and
the dosage increases to obtain the same effect. The common example is
opium and it derivatives.

Yet clearly the term addictive in the US has come to have no meaning and
that any substance (substance only) that is hard to stop using must be
called addictive. Addictive means clearly, hard to stop using.

Yet as Dole has learned it is not permitted to use the term additictive
in any manner other than meaning “hard to stop using.”

This is what folks in public have to learn that words have social
meanings independent facts.

That is what is going on in this gassing nonsense. It has been elevated
to “hard to stop” equals “addiction” level of equate.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:25 PDT 1996
Article: 49982 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:10:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.activism:60968 alt.conspiracy:66636 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25220 alt.politics.white-power:35969 alt.radio.talk:12062 alt.revisionism:49982 alt.skinheads:31673

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:39:06 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 10 Jul 1996 14:52:43 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>>anderson) wrote:

>>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>: On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:09:17 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
>>>: wrote:

>>>: >Could you prove that, please?
>>>:
>>>: >Thank you.
>>>:
>>>: Read your fucking bible, idiot.
>>>:
>>>: It is all recorded there.
>>>:
>>>: What in the hell are you doing here without the slightest grouding in
>>>: the subject under discussion?

>>>Giwer claims he only attacks when he is attacked, and never initiates
>>>nastiness. Can anybody find the attack in Walt’s post, above?

>> Such gross stupidity annoys me.

>And you annoy me. So f**king what. Deal with it, or come over to my
>house and deal with me.

>Got me, Matty? I’ve had it with your crap.

>————————————-
>”Hehvu z’hirin barashut…”
>”Be wary of the authorities…”
> Rabban Gamliel
> Pirkei Avot 2:3

Am I impressed or am I impressed? My address is easily available. Drop
by and see me. Brings friends.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:26 PDT 1996
Article: 49984 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!delmarva.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:30:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:32:15 AM CDT 1996
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On 12 Jul 1996 03:40:32 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:07:22 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am talking about the revered written history of the Jewish people who
>>have the first recorded acts of genocide in human history.

>No – you are talking about the mythology that is part of a religion
>known as Hebraism and is the ancestor of several major religions.

>Judaism has *NO* recorded acts of genocide – other than the Holocaust
>against us.

>Simple logic.

>No ground-shifts, please.

I have no problem if you wish to denounce the writings of the
Hebrews/Israelites as total fantasy and thus denounce any and all gods
you folks have been stupid enough to follow for so long.

But to repeat I am referring to those first acts of genocide BY you
folks as the first recorded in human history.

If you wish to throw out all of your old writings, fine with me. If you
wish to keep them, you folks are the first people to have committed
genocide and in fact are proud of it.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:26 PDT 1996
Article: 49985 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!delmarva.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:32:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:34:37 AM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 00:37:44 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># That was Yahweh God, one of their seven gods, one for each
># day of their week.

>Pity; if it was six gods, he could claim that’s the
>explanation for the Nizkor six, not to mention the
>six million.

># That was the horned god, the blood thirsty one.

>Gewalt! He had horns, too?

Get with the program, boy. His altars have been found, many of them.
They are adorned with horns. Ask Alec Grynspan about it. He was the
first to turn me onto the findings.

># No wonder his followers won and wiped out most of the
># records of the others.

>Where is the documentary and physical evidence for this?

As I have been told, do your own research. You might as Alec where to
start.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:27 PDT 1996
Article: 49986 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email ‘bombings’?
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:44:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:46:01 AM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 05:33:26 GMT, [email protected] (pgroff) wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:35:46 GMT, [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
>wrote:
>(Ms. Sommers snipped)
>> All of the above but also very common.
>>
>> Holohuggers are into harrassment as a way of life.
>>
>> After all, it is all they have left after their myths are exposed.
>>
>The only Myth maybe your 163IQ…
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF

The testimony of Moshe Lundelthal

I was a sonderkommando. It was my job to take bodies out of
the chambers and stack them. The bodies were grotesque. They
had turned blue from the gas. They froze in the position they
died. We stacked them like cordwood outside often to two meters
in height.

When we would come back in the morning they would be gone.
The night crew would have taken them to the crematoria. All we
would see on the ground were the ashes.

The first day I did this, I was sick. I vomited out my
stomach until there were nothing but dry heaves. And older
kommando came to me and said I must get back to work else I would
be in the stacks in the morning. I pulled myself together and
began to work again. Fear for my life galvanized me as much as
nausea paralyzed me.

I don’t know how I moved through the day. At night my
dreams were terrors. I do not know if I woke to my own screams
or the screams of other kommandos. We were given extra rations
and life and that is all I cared about.

I don’t know how long I did it. I remember the fine spring
day when I was collected with my beloved wife and children and
taken to the train. I still remember the smell of the flowers
before my life changed to this endless cycle. It is all that
holds me together as I have seen my beloveds in all the faces of
the dead.

I looked into their blue faces and saw what I might have
been and I was happy. I wished myself dead for being alive and
found solace in knowing my wish could not be granted. I loathed
myself every minute of the day and tormented myself by night.

I learned that hell is being alive when I should be dead.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:28 PDT 1996
Article: 49989 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:36:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:37:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:32:36 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> Your “god” does exactly the same thing and is no better than the
>mortal
>> Pharoah.
>>
>> This is a god you are talking about, remember?
>>
>> Created everything, our entire reality, remember?
>>
>> This is the THE himself.
>>
>> All he has to do is tell Scotty to beam them all to the Promised Land
>> and it is a done deal. Right?
>>
>> Or do you have a problem with a god doing this?
>>
>> Excuse me. You accept that this god wanted all the death and
>suffering
>> instead of doing it the easy way.
>>
>> I find it amazing the otherwise apparently rational people who swallow
>> crap like the bible stories.
>>
>> You are truly wierd.

>There are some very deep contradictions, both within this post and between
>this post and others you’ve issued recently, Matt. I wonder if you could
>take the time to explain to us all here just how you can ridicule people
>for believing “crap like bible stories”, while you yourself use the
>saidsame crap to establish indefensible theses like “the Jews invented
>genocide.”

>I eagerly await your response.

Faked names which have no email address but who insist upon sending
email despite my protestations get no response other than this.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:29 PDT 1996
Article: 49991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!delmarva.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism (was :Re: German hegemony )
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:37:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:39:20 AM CDT 1996
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On 12 Jul 1996 03:42:35 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Richard James Green) writes:
>>In article <[email protected]>, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>>>What is the molecular weight of HCN? What is the effective molecular
>>>weight of air?
>>
>>That’s not relevant except to prove the the person in question can’t
>>add.

>Hint: Hydrogen has a lower molecular weight. It rises.

Hint: You are out of your depth but your fellow holohuggers will not
tell you that.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49994 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: By popular demand and why
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 07:04:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 12:06:34 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

The following story was first posted as a demonstration of the a problem
with the credulity of the holohuggers. There are four major and several
minor inpossible / contrary to reality things in this post.

Yet not one holohugger was willing to address it based upon the
impossible. They all wanted an “authority” before they addressed it.

From the reponses that were posted, if there had been a “credible”
source they would have defended the impossible until hell froze over.

The testimony of Moshe Lundelthal

I was a sonderkommando. It was my job to take bodies out of
the chambers and stack them. The bodies were grotesque. They
had turned blue from the gas. They froze in the position they
died. We stacked them like cordwood outside often to two meters
in height.

When we would come back in the morning they would be gone.
The night crew would have taken them to the crematoria. All we
would see on the ground were the ashes.

The first day I did this, I was sick. I vomited out my
stomach until there were nothing but dry heaves. And older
kommando came to me and said I must get back to work else I would
be in the stacks in the morning. I pulled myself together and
began to work again. Fear for my life galvanized me as much as
nausea paralyzed me.

I don’t know how I moved through the day. At night my
dreams were terrors. I do not know if I woke to my own screams
or the screams of other kommandos. We were given extra rations
and life and that is all I cared about.

I don’t know how long I did it. I remember the fine spring
day when I was collected with my beloved wife and children and
taken to the train. I still remember the smell of the flowers
before my life changed to this endless cycle. It is all that
holds me together as I have seen my beloveds in all the faces of
the dead.

I looked into their blue faces and saw what I might have
been and I was happy. I wished myself dead for being alive and
found solace in knowing my wish could not be granted. I loathed
myself every minute of the day and tormented myself by night.

I learned that hell is being alive when I should be dead.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49995 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 06:58:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 2:00:22 AM CDT 1996
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:16:08 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Ole Kreiberg) writes;

># Cyclon or Zyklon B as it was called in Germany (B stands for
># Blausaeure) came in pellets. These pellets might have hit the
># naked prisoners on the way down to the cold flor but I don’t
># think that they might have been long enough in contact with
># the alleged human bodies to have an influence on the temperature
># of the absorbed liquid.

>Irrelevant. As I have posted, a paper published in 1941 by Dr.
>Gerhard Peters (general manager of Degesch, major manufacturer
>of Zyklon-B before and during the war), studies the evaporation
>of the cyanide gas from the HCN at rather low temperatures (as
>low as -12 Celsius). It explicitly notes that the evaporation
>is still quite fast, and states that “Hence, the evaporation
>of the prussic acid [HCN] did not slow down considerably
>because of low temperatures”.

>Anyway, “revisionists” may try and prove their claims, by
>standing in a relatively cold chamber and having Zyklon-B
>thrown into it. Oddly enough, they haven’t suggested doing
>that.

As you know, non-scientist, the mentions of the time support 6-12 hour
outgassing as you have posted.

But you know that.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:31 PDT 1996
Article: 50003 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CODOH shut down
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:05:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:07:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Jul 1996 03:19:23 GMT, [email protected]@ (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>
>> How could it be criminal for a US to violate that Canadian law when it
>>has no force in the US and would be specifically prohibited in the US?

>When he sends the signal over the border, it’s under Canadian law. IOW –
>he must assure that it doesn’t get here.

The common carrier does the sending, not the web site owner. The web
site owner has no control over what the common carrier does.

>> If Canada doesn’t want it, Canada can stop it from getting in.

>Governments don’t work that way. You’re free to say anything –
>and they’re free to throw you into the slammer as a consequence.

>IOW – They don’t have to stop you. You have to stop you.

IOW people have to avoid the dubious pleasure of visiting the mind
control state of Canada.

So what is the loss?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 11:01:32 PDT 1996
Article: 50012 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor flunkies learn some basics
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:52:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 3:54:10 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:41:42 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> stolen an animated GIF from some place.

>Created it myself, actually, because the VTW’s fireworks were too
>big and flashy for our somber site. Thanks for the compliment.

Bullshit. Can’t go from ignorant to knowledgable over night. But,
should you wish to maintain this claim, HOW did you create a five
pointed star?

And if no “how” where did you steal it?

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 13:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 50035 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:53:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 5:55:43 PM PDT 1996
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On 12 Jul 1996 12:49:09 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 12:13:16 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:
>>>NO! NO! NO! Where are the actual films of the bombs falling? The fire
>>>itself? The people burning alive?
>>
>> Are you saying there were no bomb camera films? No reconnaisance
>>photos? How strange that they would conduct a bomb raid without such
>>standard practices.

> In other words you have _not_ seen those films and do not know what
>was in them.

I have seen some of them. They have been covered by some documentaries.
But then if one derivative source of physical evidence is invalid so are
they all, which would include photos reproduced in books.

I have not objected to the existance of any of your pictures, only to
descriptions that go beyond what is shown in the pictures, that is
unsupported by the pictures.

>>Burning people may not have been filmed but with
>>pictures of the fire storm and with burnt bodies found where the
>>firestorm was, one can possibly rule out suicide.
>>
>>>People don’t “Glow Orange and Vanish”, Matt – so it never happened?
>>
>> But as you see, the physical evidence that exists around Dresden does
>>not require a single eyewitness statement to reconstruct what happened.

> According to what you have presented so far, you are wrong. I will
>try to write this very slowly and simply. See if you can clean your
>glasses and follow the discussion this time.

> You have not disputed the fact that there is physical evidence of
>cyanide use in the Kremas. There are traces still detectable in the
>walls. There is a letter from Topf (signatures of both Prufer and Sander
>plus enough stamps to send an elephant by airmail quite visible) about
>cyanide detectors for the Kremas. Physical evidence.

> You have not disputed the fact that there is physical evidence of dead
>bodies at Auschwitz during the same time frame that there was cyanide in
>use there. Crematoria. Ashes and bone chips – not as many documented
>tons as you asked to see, but lots of ’em.

> Yet you _do_ dispute the existence of physical evidence for cyanide
>gassing. You do not need to explain why; I know.

As least someone has gotten it essentially correct. But you do not know
why or you would spell out why.

Dead bodies are from disease. Cyanide is for fumigation.

And we have also been over the inabilty of anyone to establish an excess
number of people going in that are unaccounted for in known records.

> Now. Pay attention.

> You have presented physical evidence for the bombing of Dresden. I do
>not dispute that. I will even accept that the planes referred to in those
>mission records did the bombing rather than turn back from cowardice with
>an agreement to hush it up, with the Soviets really carrying out the
>bombing.

> You have presented physical evidence that about the same time, there
>was a major fire in Dresden. I do not dispute that.

> However, London and Chicago tell us that one can have a major fire
>without bombing. So bombing was not a necessary condition for the Dresden
>fire.

It was, however, coincident with the bombing who identified purpose was
to start a fire storm and a firestorm is what occurred. The London and
Chicago fires were wind driven and not firestorms. A firestorm
establishes its own air circulation patterns that drive the fire a bit
like what happens in a hurricane.

> And your thousands of mission records tell you that sortie after
>sortie was flown without giving a whole new meaning to the phrase “toast
>of the town.” So bombing is not a sufficient condition for the Dresden
>fire.

> The bombing would almost certainly have knocked out the water system
>and a lot of firefighting equipment and firefighters, making it impossible
>to fight any fires that may have started in the town (from _any_ cause)
>and leaving them to spread uncontrolled as they would not have under
>ordinary circumstances. But ….

But you describe a type of fire that did not occur.

> Now, Mr. Scientist, do you finally realize what physical evidence you
>have consistently failed to present? Remember, post hoc ergo propter hoc
>is a logical fallacy.

I hope you now realize just what is wrong with the hypothesis you have
constructed.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 13:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 50040 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email ‘bombings’?
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 05:56:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]xnews8.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 12:57:50 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:57:28 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> All of the above but also very common.
>>
>> Holohuggers are into harrassment as a way of life.
>>
>> After all, it is all they have left after their myths are exposed.

>I was just mail-bombed by a denier whos statements were easily nuked. It
>was his way of retaliating – like all deniers – when his lies were
>exposed.

>Prove that I wasn’t.

>*YAWN*

Yawn was consider juvenile before you discovered BBSs.

>Try again, Matt. Anybody who can program at any level above pressing the
>remote control on a TV can see the illogic here.

>Next we’ll hear how the “great Zundel” was firebombed by JDLers using
>black helicopters.

>Yeesh!

>And you’d go along with this, just for a troll!?!? How far down are you
>intending to go?

I recount what has happened.

You of course have the choice as to what you comment upon.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 16:31:38 PDT 1996
Article: 50054 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:32:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 8:34:13 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 12 Jul 1996 16:21:47 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 11 Jul 1996 03:55:08 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:

>[snip]

>>>> The revisionist method is to point out that there are not even faked
>>>>pictures of gassing being presented. No pictures at all. NOTHING in
>>>>the way of physical evidence.
>>
>>> No, the revisionist method is to reject all such pictures and evidence
>>>as being faked or improperly/questionably captioned
>>
>> Only the latter and then not improperly but creatively captioned.

> Your gross ignorance is not my fault. Get off your lazy butt and into
>a library. See Walendy, Udo: “Forged War Crimes Malign the German
>Nation.” He called the resistance photo of pit burning at Birkenau a
>painting, apparently because of the atrocious printing in the book in
>which he viewed it. But Pressac has a much better printing of the same
>photo.

I speak for myself. If you want him to explain, get him to join the
conference.

Why is it you think I should be responsible for explaining what others
have written?

>> We already have agreement that damning pictures were not permitted so
>>there can be no such pictures.

> What brilliant logic. Drug dealing is not permitted so there can be
>no drug dealers. Quite pathetic.

> No, there are such pictures taken in violation of orders – but of
>course a photograph cannot conclusively show the cause of death.

Then you are saying there was no way to connect the pictures that exist
with anything in the captions. One often does have ask the supposed
origin of these pictures. If they are official pictures, numbered and
cataloged then there is something to say for them.

Rather they are like the people who appear to have been executed where
there is one possible indication that one of the people is a woman, no
indication of religion and yet the caption includes the description
“jewish women.”

>>or not showing the
>>>cause of death of the dead bodies in the picture or not proving that live
>>>people were in the room at the same time as the cyanide whose traces still
>>>linger in the walls. Point to the cyanide traces, they don’t show people
>>>in the room. Show pictures of dead people, they don’t indicate that
>>>cyanide was the cause of death. Round and round and round we go….
>>
>> But then we have agree that pictures of the “gassed dead” were
>>prohibited so they do not exist.

> If you believe that everyone always obeys orders you have a lot of
>growing up to do. Get serious.

Then you would have it that certain rule violations did happen but that
leaves you without traceability or caption.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 18:18:33 PDT 1996
Article: 50088 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum,alt.communism.moderated,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Differences between Communisism and Socialism
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 23:41:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 4:43:08 PM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum:100 alt.politics.radical-left:103680 alt.revisionism:50088 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1677 soc.culture.jewish:62012

On 13 Jul 1996 20:51:22 GMT, J-Marc wrote:

>I am not communist but think there is good thing in socialim and communism.
>Marx was only a pragmatic without emotion but he participates to the 19th century’s way of
>thinking which was very anti-religious. In fact the communism is another religious way of
>thinking the world with this particular viewing of “human action”. Marx was evil but may be
>pardonnable.

If you don’t mind I don’t see anything good about Marx or anything that
has come from his garbage. It has only worked economically when
implemented as did Mussolini and Hitler did. Every implementation of
every variation has had to rely upon force and deprivation of individual
liberty.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 13 19:48:52 PDT 1996
Article: 50096 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:15:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 5:16:55 AM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:03:18 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 09 Jul 1996 20:26:45 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:
>>
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >> OF course the above is what you will repeat forever and ever but in fact
>> >> I only pointed out the lack of a mention of such a needle.
>>
>> >Hey, when I was in the military I recieved tetanus shots.
>>
>> >Ah, but in the preceeding sentence, I neglected to mention the needle! Ergo
>> >the sentence is false.
>>
>> Perhaps it looked that long to you at that age …

>No, the tetanus needle looked quite normal sized for a needle. I was
>18 at the time. I have’t grown that much since then.

>
>> But then you read the rest of the descriptions that go with these
>> immensely long needles such as “thought they were getting a vaccination”
>> and you see how ridiculous these stories are.

>Um, except that it is *you* who brought up the needle length.

No, I did not bring it up. Those who talked about direct injection to
the heart brought it up. Getting to the heart is length. That is what
they introduced.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:41 PDT 1996
Article: 50098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazis NOT racist NOR antisemitic!
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:39:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 6:41:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 96 15:38:43 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>Aha, I finally seem to have succeeded in kicking some answer out of Mr. Giwer.
>Let’s see, what we can do with it.

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>On Mon, 08 Jul 96 12:18:13 GMT, @stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:
>>>Quotations like this are countless. Giwer’s claim that national socialism was
>>>is not racist is inane and shows only his complete ignorance towards matters
>>>historical.
>>
>> Your restatement of what I said is not relevant.

>Of course it is relevant. You made a stupid claim, discovered that it is not supportable,
>and instead of admitting that you were dead wrong just tried to cover it up. I was
>not satisfied with that and demanded repeatedly a question.

>> You continuing deliberate confusion is indentifying a political party
>>with everything it stands for.

>(Why do I always imagine Mr. Giwer trembling by excitement. Could it be because
>of his many typos, because his fingers do not hit the right key?)

>What, Mr. Giwer, could anybody do with a party, apart from identifying it with
>everything it stands for? But this is only the first step. You can say “The party
>claims they are so-and-so,” and then add a very big “BUT”. The national
>socialists on the other hand have proved thoroughly that their claim of being
>racist was true. You still do not provide evidence that they were not. Could
>it be that you haven’t any?

>> National Socialism is exactly what I said it was and was a minor
>>variation upon Fascism which was Marxism with government control of
>>private ownership.

>Now I am left to wonder, whether Mr. Giwer does not read my posts, does not
>understand them, simply forgets them, or keeps an ill-willing silence over them.
>I have shown _exhaustively_ that the question of totalitarian government control
>is only _one_ of the features which mark out fascism. Mr. Giwer was not able
>to disprove me and escaped into his childish name-calling.

>> You reasoning is as follows. Liberalism supports a welfare state and is
>>pro-abortion therefore the welfare state is pro-abortion.

>No, not at all. My reasoning is as follows:

>Fascism is undemocratic, totalitarian, inherently racist, ultra-nationalistic, features government
>control over business and a small, self-reproducing government elite.

>National socialism is undemocratic, totalitarian, strongly anti-semitic, racist, ultra-nationalistic,
>features government control over business and a small, self-reproducing government elite. Therefore
>national socialism is a fascist system.

You either failed or did not take Political science. You descriptive
charcteristics are of the NSDAP, not of the concept of national
socialism. Why are you so slow?

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:42 PDT 1996
Article: 50103 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:29:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 7:31:06 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 11:02:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>>
>> As for Dresden, if you care to think it through, you can easily come up
>> with a dozen other forms of documentation that I have not mentioned that
>> exist around that raid.

>No evidence. All testimony was given under torture – your claim, Matt.

>Documents were forged.

>Your rules, Matt.

Not in the least. The most I have suggested is that the couple written
documents out of thousands are anomalous. I have pointed out that what
is in many pictures does not support what the captions say about them.

You would be wise to learn what “my rules” have been and not assume that
what others have told you is true.

>Prove Dresden was destroyed, Matt.
>>
>> >I am holding up a photo in front of the screen. Can you not see it?!?
>>
>> Scan it in and mail it to Nizkor.

>They have it.

>Just stare *REAL HARD* and you’ll see the original.

>Silly boy!

Perhaps you would tell me which of the many things on Nizkor you are
referring to?

>> >Let’s take this one to its absurd end, Matt. Remember Reductio ad
>> >absurdium?
>>
>> >*I* saw original documents. My father saw original documents.
>>
>> If you folks saw “original documents” spelling out gassing why have you
>> folks not told any historians where to find them?
>>
>He did. They have them. You reject them.

Would you care to point out which ones they are?

>I reject that Dresden ever happened.

Who cares? It is unimportant. Now why is gassing so important?

>> >Now – have you seen original documents of Dresden?
>>
>> >Yes or No, Matt. Have you?
>>
>> Of course not and I sincerely doubt you have seen what you claim. I do
>> not see why they would be kept secret.

>Then you have no proof.

I never claimed to have proof, only evidence. But you know that.

>Dresden never happened.

Fine with me.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:42 PDT 1996
Article: 50107 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: law suit
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 02:19:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 9:20:55 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

The attorney I have been talking to has added some more advice.

A class action suit is the wrong way to go. Everyone should sue
individually and use the results of the previous cases in all the
following suits. Sequential suits do not prejudice each other.

And even if this “disclaimer” passes the criteria of being a disclaimer
for the “director”

Nizkor FTP file: DISCLAIMER

The views expressed within the files archived on this system
are those of their authors, not necessarily those of Ken McVay
or the Nizkor Project.

Kenneth McVay, O.B.C.
Director
The Nizkor Project

it was added on July 10th this year and anything on line prior to that
time is still actionable.

And it appears the synagogue accepting donations can also be named in
the suit or dealt with separately.

=====

But in any event, we now have clear evidence of a synagogue promoting
defamation of character.

Congregation Emanu-El / Nizkor Project
1461 Blanshard St.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
V8W 2J3

In other words we have a genuine Jewish organization promoting hatred.

It is also desirable to name the co-webmasters and have them demonstrate
to the satisfaction of the court that they should be removed from the
suit. To do that they will have to demonstrate they were only following
orders. It will be interesting if they think that is a proper excuse.

Also the one in Austin can be named.

BTW: It appears there are others with the process already underweigh.

Nizkor FTP file: people/t/thompson.linda/threat-of-suit.01

>From iquest.net!lindat Wed Jul 3 23:14:16 1996
Return-Path: Received: by nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Smail3.1.29.1 #8)
id m0ubhg6-000SMpC; Wed, 3 Jul 96 23:14 PDT
Received: from iquest.net (iquest4.iquest.net) by nizkor.almanac.bc.ca ;
3 JUL 96 23:14:03 PDT
Received: from ind-000-236-42.iquest.net by iquest.net with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0ubhay-0049EnC; Thu, 4 Jul 96 01:08 EST
Message-Id:
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 96 01:08 EST
X-Sender: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii”
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Linda Thompson)
Subject:
Status: RO

You are advised that I have already begun the process of suing the
Anti-Defamation League for writing numerous false and defamatory
articles
about me and that you have republished one such article. You are not
immune
>from suit in the United States for the republication of libel.

This is your notice required by Indiana law prior to suit that I intend
to
sue you, and the organizations sponsoring you, Congregation Emanu-El,
1461
Blanshard St., Victoria, British Columbia, Canada V8W 2J3 and San
Antonio
Area Foundation Nizkor Fund, P.O. Box 120366, San Antonio, TX 78212-9566
for defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress,
misappropriation of name, and endangering the life and safety of myself
and
my family by republishing the ADL article about me on your website.

Remove it immediately. I expect an immediate full apology and
retraction
for being associated, falsely, by you and by implication, and by
republication of falsehoods, with so-called “racists” or “nazis.”

Linda Thompson

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:43 PDT 1996
Article: 50108 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenol or Gas
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 02:23:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 9:25:08 PM CDT 1996
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On 13 Jul 1996 15:04:28 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>
>> No, I did not bring it up. Those who talked about direct injection to
>> the heart brought it up. Getting to the heart is length. That is what
>> they introduced.

> Matty-poo the revisionist strikes again. He made something up hoping
>that nobody would notice. When they did, Matty-poo changes his story.

> And, with your usual level of ignorance, you did not bother to find out
>that syrunges capable of reaching the heart were standard equipment for
>emergency rooms at the time and still are for veternarians. In your ignorance you
>implied that such syringes were not available. You were caught.

> Your second mistake was that you did not have the basic medical
>knowledge. You had no idea of the mechanism by which a coronary thrombosis
>affects the body even though the mechanism is described in the Merck Manual.
>You were caught.

> In fact the “they” you talk about was not a “they.” It was Matty-poo
>who, as usual, did not know what he was talking about.

Quite fascinating really.

That you buy into the story that the people calmly accepted it thinking
they were just getting a vaccination.

That you buy into the story that hydrogen gas was one of the things
tested.

That you are so terminally silly that you accept every word of the
entire story including the hydrogen gas but that they never tried air.

But then you are a holohugger.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:44 PDT 1996
Article: 50109 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH’S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 02:25:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 13 9:27:22 PM CDT 1996
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On Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:29:18 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>>[email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>>
>># The worm went out and you bit. By “impersonating professor” I
>># mean that for months I referred to you as “professor” or “the
>># professor”, and suddenly, after my addressing you as that
>># scores of times, you informed me you weren’t really a professor
>># but some kind of engineer.
>>
>>No. Learn to read. I said that I spent three years as a research
>>associate at Brown University, in the Division of Engineering, and
>>that now I teach at a different university.
>>-Danny Keren.

> Where did you say that, former impersonating professor?

What is even more interesting is claiming the Engineering Department and
not showing the slightest comprehension of engineering.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:44 PDT 1996
Article: 50116 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:36:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-21.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 8:38:05 PM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:38:58 -0400, Alec Grynspan wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> >”There are no fakes, therefore it didn’t happen”.
>>
>> >This is logic?!?!
>>
>> Obviously it is not but that is not what I said, so why beat a straw
>> man?

>Must I now ask you to read what *YOU* wrote?!?

>Hoo Boy!!

What I wrote has two >. What someone else wrote has three of them. I
am not in the habit of putting quotation marks around my own words. But
if you can find them with the complete context …

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:45 PDT 1996
Article: 50138 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: zero risk websites
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:01:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 14 2:02:53 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 13 Jul 1996 20:20:31 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> Within a couple a three months I expect to announce the availability of
>> bullet proof web server that does not give a damn about content and in
>> fact encourages inflamatory but US legal (meaning no kiddie porn but
>> that is about it) content.
>
>> Stay tuned for the Thomas Paine net, coming to an IPS near you.

> The netcom abuse group finally caught up with you? Say hello to Ishmael
>Estrada.

Not in the least, fool. There has been exactly one claim filed with
that addr that copied me and it was started by another person who
cancelled the message after it was responded to. That left it looking
like I was the originator.

Excuse me be I have the original message and the person who started the
game.

I am not interested in playing it save to let that person hang on the
game.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:46 PDT 1996
Article: 50139 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McVay being sued
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:22:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 14 2:23:50 AM CDT 1996
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This is an interesting discovery, that he is being sued along with his
Canadian and US donation acceptors and the two co-webmasters.

After all, what is defamation of character all about?

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:47 PDT 1996
Article: 50140 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazis NOT racist NOR antisemitic!
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:28:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
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On Sun, 14 Jul 1996 02:28:47 GMT, [email protected] (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On 13 Jul 1996 14:42:25 GMT, Nele Abels
>> wrote:

>[snip]

>>>>You either failed or did not take Political science.
>>>>You descriptive charcteristics are of the NSDAP, not of the
>>>>concept of national socialism. Why are you so slow?

>>>The appropriate question is: Why is Mr. Giwer so dense? Does he
>>>give any reason, why the characteristics of the NSDAP should _not_
>>>be the characteristics of national socialism? NO. Does he quote
>>>any historian who puts forward this thesis? NO. Does he give
>>>_anything_ remotedly looking like a qualified answer? NO.

>> When you mature you will learn to think for yourself, maybe. Probably
>>not though, you are too thoroughly a holohugger.

>The troll once again demonstrates his inability to respond rationally
>or with civility – or to acknowledge yet another defeat.

>In addition, the troll – who has yet to demonstrate any ability to
>think for himself (or for anyone else) – continues to delude himself
>by tedious name-calling. The troll mistakenly, but transparently,
>attributes to his opponent his own failures and ineptitude.

Listen up, fatbroad. there is exacly nothing on Nizkor that deserves
anyone being called a webmaster much less you.

You are worthless in the www community. Get over it.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:47 PDT 1996
Article: 50141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected]tcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group… (was Re: Baron exp…
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:37:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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On 14 Jul 1996 04:12:29 GMT, [email protected] (A Huber) wrote:

>>
>>Furthermore, Mr. Giwer has made dozens, if not hundreds, of claims
>>thus far, and has never provided a single shred of supporting data
>>when asked nicely by participants in this group.

>This is a REVISIONIST Newsgroup. j*ws are not “participants”, but
>rather spammers and flamers. Why should anyone waste the time to provide
>a j*w with supporting data? The group is for discussion amongst persons
>holding similar views. The sooner the revisionists understand this, the
>higher will be the quality of discourse.

Well stated. Holohuggers are not welcome here. They are here only to
disrupt the purpose of the NG and should receive complaints to their IPS
for their existance here.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:48 PDT 1996
Article: 50142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:29:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 14 2:31:49 AM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 96 23:33:02 GMT, Alexander Baron
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>
> [email protected] “Miloslav Bilik” writes:
>>
>> Are you truly Alexander Baron or is this a joke? Do you claim truly
>> that the famous Irma Grese, convicted to death and executed in 1945 as
>> Hossler, was a reliable witness for Hossler ?

>I never said she gave evidence for Hoessler, I said her testimony was a right
>load of old bollocks. If you took everything that was said at these trials at
>face value you’d believe the Moon was made of green cheese. Keren’s proposition
>is that if a Nazi confessed to something he did it. If a survivor said something
>happened, it did.

For the Americans on this conference …

> I said her testimony was a right load of old bollocks.

That means BULLSHIT.

Some Brits never get Saxon right.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:49 PDT 1996
Article: 50144 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 03:53:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:51:37 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
wrote:

>One has to wonder what possible importance the Nazis would have attached
>to artisans who were Polish Jews if they did not attach any importance to
>artists who were German Jews whom they persecuted?

Used them to build Treblinka according to one of popular stories.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 14 07:45:50 PDT 1996
Article: 50145 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 03:50:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 12 10:52:07 PM CDT 1996
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On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:47:39 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

># If there is that one picture the holohuggers are doing a
># great job of keeping it a secret. Where is it hidden?

>The source is in Germany; it was taken during a gassing
>in Mogilev, supervised by Nebe and Dr. Widmann. Nebe was
>executed by the Nazis (he was suspected of taking part in
>the plot to kill Hitler). Dr. Widmann and other people
>who participated in the gassing survived the war and
>were tried or appeared as witnesses in a trial held by
>the Germans.

>I have only a rather poor xerox copy of the photo (there
>are actually a few photos, as a movie was taken during
>the gassing – this is mentioned in Reitlinger’s book). I
>hope to obtain better quality photos and/or a copy of
>the film itself.

When I see it, I will have an opinion on it. I have heard of too many
pictures from you folks that do not support the captions given. But
here you don’t even give a caption.

In any event, a bad xerox is better than nothing at all.

># But in fact the subject is that I can provide physical
># EVIDENCE of the Dresden bombing that does not require one
># bit of eyewitness testimony.

>Yawn. We’ve been through this. This is the type of evidence
>commonly rejected by “revisionists” when presented as
>evidence to the Holocaust (photos and documents).

Having seen what passes for such evidence, it does not support gassing.
But you know that.

># There a pictu