Giwer, Free speech 4 -1996

If it was the real Ken McVay who called my parents to get my phone
number, the one he left, 862-3905 did not come with the right area code.

If you really want to talk, it is not hard to find my real phone number
if you can master a browser.

From [email protected] Sat Jul 20 09:15:28 PDT 1996
Article: 51547 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Slimey bastard McVay and company
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 06:21:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 1:23:41 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 19 Jul 1996 08:32:08 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>I can’t find it on my newsfeed!

>Must be those Special Interests again! (Blame
>Bernie Farber, immediately, and contact the Zundelklone, volunteering in
>the War Against Special Interests Censoring Stuff. Demand that your ISP
>carry this particular internet refuse bin!)
>
>>I’ve got alt.bonehead.kevin.mitnick, but no matt giwer.

>As your ISP to newgroup it for you. Smile when you do 🙂

>>Hmmm.

>You have quoted Linda Thompson, and thus misappropriated her word for
>commercial gain. I’d be careful about that sort of thing around here,
>Sara. See
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/t/thompson-linda/thompson-mcvay-070796.html
>for her use of the word “Hmmm” and deport yourself accordingly.)

>Whoops! I retract! You did _not_ misappropriate Linda Thompson’s “hmmmm,”
>you invented your own word, “hmmm,” instead. I apologize, world-wide, for
>this unseeming slur upon your good name and honour, Sara.

>>A conspiracy of silence perhaps?

>We should be so lucky 🙂

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>See you in Tampa.

>–
>The Nizkor Project | https://www.nizkor.org/
>———————–| Random Giwer Whoppers Served Here
> |————————————–
> http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/random-giwer-lie.pl

If you know I am in Tampa why do you harrass my octagenarian parents in
Cincinnati for my phone number?

Are you claiming you do not know the magic number?

Try it this way, 813-555-1212. It works for everyone you worthless
piece of shit.

You have in fact almost exhausted my patience with you and your
organized activities.

Take this as one of your last warnings.

From [email protected] Fri Jul 19 19:11:10 PDT 1996
Article: 51499 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: To Ken McVay
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:30:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-26.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 19 1:33:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

From [email protected] Sat Jul 20 09:15:35 PDT 1996
Article: 51571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Join the Gang of Eight: Edit a Giwer page today!
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 05:02:36 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 12:05:18 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 19 Jul 1996 08:35:53 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article ,
>[email protected] wrote:

>>In article , [email protected] (Joel
>>Rosenberg) wrote:

>>> I realize I haven’t earned my share of the profits, but since Giwer
>>> is apparently made of money and wants to throw it away, is there any
>>> way I can get in on this lawsuit? And can I bring my wife and kids
>>> down to Florida for the January deposition?

>>Thanks for asking, Joel. I wanted to ask the same thing.
>
>>Giwer has spammed me with a 500 line piece of crap… will that help?

>Only 500 lines? That’s it? That’s your sole beef? How do you expect to
>defeat Spamhuggers, obeseperson?

>You accept only spam from a thing.

>(Sure – see you in Tampa.)

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

Are you really the one who hassled by parents in their 80s to get my
phone number or was that one of your gang?

What is your area code so we can talk? This is the rest that came
through. 863-3905. Is that correct?

Now the gang has taken to harrassing my parents.

Is there anyone going to hold me guilty of other than righteous response
after this? My phone number is available on the web yet some asshole
had to call them.

What little patience I have had for you folks is about at its limits.
There is almost none left.

It will be stopped.

 

From [email protected] Sat Jul 20 09:15:31 PDT 1996
Article: 51556 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 07:55:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 2:58:21 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36577 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25738 alt.revisionism:51556 alt.skinheads:32288

On 19 Jul 1996 16:29:15 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Ursus Major) wrote:

>>thing that breathes! Those of the Mosaic Confession who slither about
>>here don’t like to be reminded of that portion of their Torah;, and
>>when reminded of it, REFUSE to discuss it. Perhaps your Evangelical
>>Excellenz could have a go at it.

>Isn’t Lehmann a Jewish name, George?

>>SEMPER FIDELIS (et Semper Prudens)!

>Glad I’m not in the Corps anymore, George.

But you harrassed a fellow Marine in his 80s and very close to the end
just to get my phone number.

You worthless slime.

Marines do not do that to each other.

May I suggest my patience is near an end?

You had better respond real soon now.

This is another of those next to last warnings just to give you time to
do so.

You claim I am in your killfile. That is your claim. My posts are
public. If you choose not to read them then you have brought your
problems upon yourself. And I think I can bring down half of the corp
upon you for what you are doing to my parents, one of whom is a marine.

Mr. McVay, my terms are very simple.

EVERY mention of me disappears from NIZKOR without expection in any
manner or form, period, no exceptions. Not even oblique references or
secondary quotations. EVERYTHING goes as though it never existed.

You publically post that you will take action and that you do take
action against anyone who contacts any member of my family or me in any
derogatory manner save via this newsgroup.

That you do not play lawyer and find a way to circumvent these terms.

Is that clear enough?

Or shall I spell it out further?

If I have to spell it out further, unspecified penalities will be
invoked.

I hope this is clear.

 

From [email protected] Sun Jul 21 09:07:28 PDT 1996
Article: 51810 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Eight Questions Matt Giwer won’t answer (Round 5)
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 04:42:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 9:45:12 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51810 soc.history:7013 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:226

On 20 Jul 1996 04:00:06 -0700, [email protected] (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>Archive/File: people/g/giwer.matt/giwer-10q
>Last-Modified: 1996/07/17

>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility
> of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>Question 1 [February 1996]
>————————–

Someone pass the word to this slimey bastard mongoloid to stop
harrassing my parents.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 21 18:36:01 PDT 1996
Article: 51909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Slimey bastard McVay and company
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 04:27:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 11:30:08 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 20 Jul 1996 13:08:32 GMT, Nele Abels
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>[…]

>>You have in fact almost exhausted my patience with you and your
>>organized activities.

>>Take this as one of your last warnings.

>Well, what will hapen then? Will you go away? Or will you finally start
>using arguments and quotations? Or even (gosh!) common sense?

Patience and find out.

From [email protected] Sun Jul 21 18:36:01 PDT 1996
Article: 51911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The THE himself
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 04:55:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 20 9:58:02 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Should anyone be interested for any purpose whatsoever.

 

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 02:16:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52024 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Ken McVay
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 06:30:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 1:31:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 1996 08:14 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>On 21 Jul 1996 01:09:44 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>> If it was the real Ken McVay who called my parents to get my phone
>>>>number, the one he left, 862-3905 did not come with the right area code.
>>
>>> If it was not the real Ken McVay, it sure would be a good way for
>>>somebody who doesn’t like Ken to stir up trouble for him. FWIW, unless it
>>>has changed since he gave it to me, I have Ken’s phone number, and
>>>862-3905 isn’t it.
>>
>> You prefer this?
>>
>> 1-604-382-0616

> So, someone called your parents, said he was Ken McVay, and gave an
> incorrect phone number. And from this you are interpreting that call
> as harassment and going ballistic on McVay deeming that is was actually
> him.

> This is not very intelligent of you…

It was either McVay or one of the gang of holohugging harrassers here on the
newsgroup. What is the difference? You are all equally worthless. You are all the
same.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 02:16:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52030 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 07:02:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:03:14 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 16:34:27 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>[Ken’s address deleted]

>> Should anyone be interested for any purpose whatsoever.

>Should that be taken as a threat, Mr Giwer?

How can InterNIC information be taken as a threat? Never mastered WHOIS, dummy?

 

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 09:01:00 PDT 1996
Article: 52095 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer Digs itself in deeper
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:03:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 3:04:35 AM CDT 1996
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36797 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25900 alt.revisionism:52095 alt.skinheads:32494

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:59:09, [email protected] (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>>> If I have to spell it out further, unspecified penalities will be
>>>>invoked.

>>>> I hope this is clear.

>>>Hee hee heee.

>>>Sue and be damned.

>>>Pretty, pretty please.

>> This time I said nothing about suing.
>>

>I know, and that’s what got you in trouble. You’ve the right to sue —
>although you’ve got to be prepared for the penalties of your frivolous lawsuit
>– but you don’t have the right to make implicit threats of violence.

>Now, have you?

>I’ll leave the answering of that question to Netcom, and to the cops, and
>perhaps to your local authorities. You can talk it over with them.

>Enjoy.

You are rather insane to read what is not there. You are one of the folks who are
working to stop me from posting, including involving my parents in this matter. You
are all scum of the earth.

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Message-Id: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Andrew Mathis)
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: ATTENTION: An apology to Ken McVay and a clarification
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 00:38:47 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Dear readers:

I’ve just returned from being away all weekend to find Matt Giwer is
claiming that Mr. McVay harrassed his 80+ year old father on the
telephone to give up Giwer’s number, and is making veiled threats
against Mr. McVay.

I have a strange suspicion that the allegations being made by Matt
Giwer against Ken McVay are, in fact, *my* fault.

Allow me to explain:

*I* phoned Matt Giwer’s father on a weeknight last week and asked for
Matt’s phone number. I actually called thinking it was Matt’s own
number, since he gave me the impression that he was easy to find, as
he implied in the post below, culled from DejaNews (any dubious
readers may find the article themselves for verification at
www.dejanews.com):

Subject: Re: Whacko Jew posting alert!

From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)

Date: 1996/07/12

Message-Id: <[email protected]>

References:

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <31DCB5E6.4C13 @azstarnet.com>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>

Organization: images incarnate

X-Netcom-Date: Fri Jul 12 1:12:38 AM PDT 1996

Newsgroups:
alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.po
litics.white-Power,alt.radio.talk,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads

 

 

 

On Fri, 12 Jul 1996 04:39:06 GMT, [email protected] (Andrew Mathis)
wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>On 10 Jul 1996 14:52:43 GMT, [email protected] (william c
>>anderson) wrote:

>>>Matt Giwer ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>: On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 21:09:17 -0600, [email protected] (Walt the Wonder Boy)
>>>: wrote:
>>>: >Could you prove that, please?
>>>:
>>>: >Thank you.
>>>:
>>>: Read your fucking bible, idiot.
>>>:
>>>: It is all recorded there.
>>>:
>>>: What in the hell are you doing here without the slightest grouding in
>>>: the subject under discussion?

>>>Giwer claims he only attacks when he is attacked, and never initiates
>>>nastiness. Can anybody find the attack in Walt’s post, above?

>> Such gross stupidity annoys me.

 

>And you annoy me. So f**king what. Deal with it, or come over to my
>house and deal with me.

>Got me, Matty? I’ve had it with your crap.

>————————————-
>”Hehvu z’hirin barashut…”
>”Be wary of the authorities…”
> Rabban Gamliel
> Pirkei Avot 2:3

Am I impressed or am I impressed? My address is easily
available. Drop by and see me. Brings friends.

 

I used a CD-ROM phone/address directory of a friend’s and found the
only Matthew Giwer listed in America–the senior Mr. Giwer.

Where I went wrong:

I claimed to be Ken when I called.

For this, I cannot be more sorry. It was a cowardly thing to do, and
I am ready to do whatever Mr. McVay asks of me in order to rectify
this situation.

As for Mr. Giwer, I have to say that I in NO WAY harrassed your father
at all, though, since you obviously heard about the phone call, he is
as much a liar as you are, since he claimed not to have heard from you
in several months. He said he didn’t know, and I hung up. I did not
badger, insult, or in any other way harrass him. In fact, he
mentioned that you might be located in Florida. All in all, it was
rather a genial conversation.

So, as far as I can see, the ONLY mistake I made, given your
invitation, was claiming to be Ken, and I will reiterate that I will
do anything Ken asks to rectify my grave error.

Any retribution that you seek on Ken should be sought on me, but the
truth is that since I have not wronged you but Ken, it is Ken who
should seek retribution.

As law-enforcement officials have already been notified as to your
veiled threats to Mr. McVay, I’m not particularly worried, either for
him or for me.

Once again, I’m deeply sorry, Ken. I hope you can forgive me.

Andrew Mathis

 

————————————-
“Hehvu z’hirin barashut…”
“Be wary of the authorities…”
Rabban Gamliel
Pirkei Avot 2:3

 

 

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 09:01:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:45:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:45:51 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never threatened a lawsuit
and there have been many posts in that regard.

All of the message traffic about the lawsuit had no basis in anything I said, save
for the paranoid.

But the holohuggers are very paranoid.

 

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 09:01:12 PDT 1996
Article: 52131 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Ken McVay
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 06:27:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 1:28:17 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 1996 10:25:21 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On 21 Jul 1996 01:09:44 -0400, [email protected] (Michael P.
>>Stein) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>> If it was the real Ken McVay who called my parents to get my phone
>>>>number, the one he left, 862-3905 did not come with the right area code.
>>
>>> If it was not the real Ken McVay, it sure would be a good way for
>>>somebody who doesn’t like Ken to stir up trouble for him. FWIW, unless it
>>>has changed since he gave it to me, I have Ken’s phone number, and
>>>862-3905 isn’t it.
>>
>> You prefer this?
>>
>> 1-604-382-0615

> Apparently the imposter could not even figure out to do a whois.

 

>>>> If you really want to talk, it is not hard to find my real phone number
>>>>if you can master a browser.

> Assuming you’re telling the truth about all this, I would guess that’s
>exactly what the person who called did.

> Giwer, Matthias M…2400 xxx Ave APT xxx…Cincinnati, OH
> 452xx-xxxx
> Phone: (513)662-xxxx

>Does this match parts of an address you send Mother’s Day cards to? If
>you want to know what commercial website completely unconnected with
>Nizkor this came from and how to remove it, email me. Oddly, your own
>phone number is _not_ on this site. If you want it to be there, it can be
>added.

I said it was available on the web. Search for it.

>>> If you really want to know who it was, it is not hard to contact the
>>>phone company and report phone harrassment. The police seem to be capable
>>>of getting the ID of callers if the phones use modern digital switching
>>>equipment.
>>
>>
>> You should look into it some day.

> How you and your parents choose to handle your problems is up to you.
>Did the caller even do anything besides ask for you and leave a phony
>phone number? If not, you don’t even have a valid claim of harrassment.

The caller identified himself as Ken McVay. Is that good enough for you?

 

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 09:01:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52160 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!news.mhtc.net!aonline!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words… (was McVay, never a Marine…)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:48:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:49:21 AM PDT 1996
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36811 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25913 alt.revisionism:52160 alt.skinheads:32504

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 20:09:10 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 11:53:21 -0700, [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>> >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>>
>> >[stuff deleted]
>>
>> >> But you harrassed a fellow Marine in his 80s and very close
>to the end
>> >> just to get my phone number.
>>
>> >Not to speak for Mr. McVay, but you have not substantiated this claim in
>> >any aspect.
>>
>> I have no interest in anything but making it public.

>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)

>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)

>”He who makes a claim bears the responsibility of supporting it.” (Matt Giwer)

>”Never debate, only attack.” (Matt Giwer)

It sounds very familiar, fatbroad.

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 18:36:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52298 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: McVay, never a Marine, unless a queen marine
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 06:47:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 21 11:48:02 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36844 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25942 alt.revisionism:52298 alt.skinheads:32530

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:40:47 GMT, [email protected] (Naomi Gayle Rivkis)
wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:

>>This time I said nothing about suing.

>No. It might have saved your hide if you had, because threatening to
>sue is strictly exercising a legal right, whereas blackmail with un-
>specified penalties is a crime. I’ve turned it over to your sysadmin
>and intend to turn it over to the police as well.

Do you really think they are as dumb as you are?

From [email protected] Mon Jul 22 18:36:06 PDT 1996
Article: 52299 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 07:01:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 22 2:02:35 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 21 Jul 1996 08:08 MST, [email protected] (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes…
>>McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
>

>> Should anyone be interested for any purpose whatsoever.

> Thanks. I was wondering where to send that Nizkor contribution cheque.

It is called WHOIS you stupid shit. If you do not like my making it available raise
hell with NIC for their making it available.

=====

McVay, Kenneth (KM1343) [email protected]
462 – 1150 North Terminal Avenue
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5T8
CA
1-604-382-0615

Record last updated on 18-Jul-96.

The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN’s, Domains, and POC’s).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.

=====

Why do I always find myself among such ignorant amateurs?

But you can not send it there. As last reported he has no tax exempt status and no
contributions can be passed to a person without tax exempt status by any
organization.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:59:26 PDT 1996
Article: 52400 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!main.Germany.EU.net!ieunet!maths.tcd.ie!maths.tcd.ie!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Derek Bell)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: 22 Jul 1996 21:25:48 +0100
Organization: The Ancient and Illuminated Order of Seers of Dublin 4
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bell.maths.tcd.ie
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36882 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25971 alt.revisionism:52400

[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> This time I said nothing about suing.

Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
post about Nizkor?

Derek

Derek Bell [email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
_The Rejected Statement_

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:48 PDT 1996
Article: 52408 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mattie Giwer can contradict himself *six* times before breakfast?
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:25:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <4sq3it$d[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 3:26:46 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36883 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25973 alt.revisionism:52408

On 22 Jul 1996 21:25:48 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> This time I said nothing about suing.
>
> Then what was this crap about “further, unspecified penalties” in your
>post about Nizkor?

Anyone with half a brain and who has read the “plaform” of Nizkor would not
have to ask that the first time.

From [email protected] Tue Jul 23 07:04:42 PDT 1996
Article: 52382 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.nap.net!fred.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Score — posting stats, June 22-July 19
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:53:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl4-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 23 12:54:39 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 22 Jul 1996 17:17:50 GMT, [email protected] (Chris Lewis) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 11:23:45 -0400, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>>>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>>>>> Chris Lewis

>>>> In fact I pointed out to him how he was being so easily used by the
>>>> holohuggers in their harrassment campaign and he stopped his efforts.

>>>Mr. Giwer appears to be claiming that someone contacted Mr. Lewis and
>>>_asked_ him to cancel Mr. Giwer’s spam several weeks ago. I regret to
>>>inform Mr. Giwer that Mr. Lewis’s spam-cancellations are determined by a
>>>computer algorithm, not by human whim. Furthermore, nobody I know has
>>>contacted Mr. Lewis, and certainly not to call his attention to the spam
>>>of Mr. Giwer.

>>>In short, Mr. Giwer is trolling with lies, again.

>>>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/cancels.0796

>>>Posted; emailed “FYI” to Mr. Lewis, with a nod of thanks for continuing
>>>to perform his thankless job.

>> Do you think you have any credibility after the stupid shit you
>>have been emailing?

>For the record:

> 1) I was not contacted by anyone except you.
> 2) I am not being “used” by anyone – when someone spams, they get
> cancelled. I could care less what the postings are about.
> 3) The only reason why I “stopped [my] efforts” is because you
> stopped spamming.
> 4) If you spam again, you will be cancelled again.

>Now that your credibility is in the toilet, we’ll return to the usual
>flamewar.

With your trivial credibility on the line, I would not admit anything either.

You were used.

You have no business or authority doing what you are claiming to do.

You need to be cut off at the knees.

Patience. It will happen.

 

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:11 PDT 1996
Article: 52832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Silence You Almost Can Hear
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:23:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 2:25:07 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 18:48:01 -0400, [email protected] (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, “Duncan Coons”
><[email protected]> writes:

>>
>>
>>
>>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote in article
>><[email protected]>…
>>
>>> There has been not a single remark, a single statement, a single
>>> posting, that noted that Giwer was violating every principal that they
>>claim to hold
>>> so dear. Ehrlich606 (with whom I frequently disagree with but consider
>>a
>>> gentleman) has said nothing. David Thomas (with whom I emphatically
>>disagree
>>> but consider a gentleman) has said nothing. The rest of the CODOH
>>crowd, who
>>> claim to be such keepers of the flame of free expression that they
>>maintain a
>>> “thought crimes archive” not only have kept their silence but,
>>naturally, they
>>> have not added this admitted attempt to stifle free speech to their
>>”archive.” L’il
>>> Tommy Moran chortled over Giwer’s proposal for a frivolous legal action
>>and
>>> asked for a piece of the action until it became a laughing stock.
>>Although he
>>> has found time to lie about the activities of others, he has said not a
>>word about
>>> Giwer. Lyin’ Al Baron, who incessant whining about how “the Jews” are
>>after
>>> him has become a staple of a.r, is silent. The H*b*r synergy or Les
>>Griswold or
>>> Marc Lemire? Don’t be silly.
>>>
>>> None have stood up. None have said a word. None have defended
>>> “free speech.” None have demonstrated that their attachment to “free
>>speech”
>>> is anything more than special pleading so that some rather eccentric
>>claims, often
>>> replete with blatent misrepresentation and venomous bigotry, sometimes
>>so
>>> obviously fraudulent as to be laughable, can be published without
>>opposition.
>>>
>>> As the Canadian poet wrote, it is a silence you almost can hear.
>>
>>
>>All this is rather silly. No one spoke up because no one took Giwer’s
>>threat of a law-suit seriously. Such a suit would not have the remotest
>>possibility of success, as you yourself (I believe) have pointed out.

>First of all, I have not read Yale’s eloquent remarks before now (I can
>imagine his plea to the judge the next time I get a ticket for
>jaywalking), and that is why I have been silent.

>>
>>Your analysis of the motives of at least some revisionists/deniers might
>>even be correct, and absent our ability to read minds we’ll never know;
>>but the incontrovertible truth remains that they are often subject to
>real
>>censorship, whereas their opponents are not.

>Now hold on a minute. I did not raise my voice about Matt’s threatened
>lawsuit because I thought it was hot air — only somewhat less gaseous
>than Gord’s threat of legal action that dominated the board a month or so
>ago. If I had had any hint that Matt meant any of this seriously I would
>have urged him to drop the matter.

>Anyone concerned with free
>>speech is therefore obliged to defend the rights of those whose
>views/lies
>>are subject to suppression, not those whose free-speech rights are secure
>>from interference. And in fact by defending the former we secure the
>>latter and, hopefully, make the principle universal.
>>
>>

>OK, if I have missed a beat somewhere in here I sincerely apologize. As I
>recall, Matt started talking up suit a week or so ago, and I understood
>the basis was to get others to stop threatening him. Then some guy called
>his Dad, and Matt blew his top. I can’t say I blame him.

>Look — obviously there are many core-people here who disagree about a lot
>of things. But I can’t think of anyone here — offhand — that I would
>wish ill. Let’s be realistic. We are adults who enjoy arguing about this
>stuff. We really should not be trying to hurt each other.

But you miss the point.

The purpose of the holohuggers is to hurt.

These are not civilized people. These are animals.

 

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:09 PDT 1996
Article: 52799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The threatened lawsuit
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:02:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:03:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On 23 Jul 1996 16:57:42 +0100, [email protected] (Derek Bell) wrote:

>[email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>> And non-paranoid reading what I posted knows that I have never
>>threatened a lawsuit and there have been many posts in that regard.

> You sure did talk a lot about a RICO suit, including asking if anyone
>would be interested.

Is asking a threat? In what manner? Or are you as stupid as the attorneys
here?

You are very dumb.

From [email protected] Wed Jul 24 07:10:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!worldlinx.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!nntp.primenet.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!in2p3.fr!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!news.ecrc.de!news.compuserve.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: [email protected] (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:53:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 34
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <[email protected]xnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl2-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jul 24 4:54:15 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:52787 can.general:84305 alt.censorship:90926 comp.org.eff.talk:68223 misc.legal:20704 ont.general:47405 bc.general:49143 talk.politics.misc:413487

On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:00:37 GMT, [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:

>[email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> An interesting post by McVay. On the surface it appears to be
>honest statement, from a freedom lovers stance, but there are a few
>things that could use pointing out.
> Within his condemnation he singles out Ernst Zundel as an example
>of a “hate” site. Though there may be indeed racist pages out there,
>that would express the dictionary definition of “hate”, Zundel would
>not fit in as an example.
> Nizkor also carries links to oragnizations it endoreses, which we
>could point out have a “hate” air about them. The JDL for one, the
>ARA, and Jeruselem One. There are probably others, which I haven’t
>checked.
> Other than this, I commend McVay for his treatment here.

Again you let him off easy.

McVay is clearly a hypocrite. His works to avoid showing his hate which is
stronger than any he pretends to fight.

He is a sadist looking for people to hurt. He is into it very deeply. You
can read it in his every post.

It is because of people like him that the legends of the vampire, the wendigo,
and the werewolf started.

He is the kind of person the human race abhors.

May it rest in peace.