Daniel Keren writes:
> [email protected]
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was
> # polluted.
>
> Not a good enough excuse. Think of something better.
What is better than the truth? You and I have different standards.
>
> # Mr. Giwer also makes a good point when he adds that the
> # British had to have provided some special filtering
> # apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.
>
> And where is this “special filtering apparatus” mentioned?
Need it have been mentioned? Use your God-given common sense
Sometimes there is more than meets the eye……
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:29 PDT 1996
Article: 70784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:35:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad46-142.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Keith Morrison <[email protected]> writes:
> Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >
> > > [email protected] writes:
> >
> >
> > > > Answer: rblackmore has evidently not researched it. The modern
> > > > treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement. Kramer provided neither. He
> > > > cut off the water. Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
> > > > dystentery.
> >
> > > Yes, this is what I have already said. However, you have already stated that
> > > all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
> > > stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
> > > heart’s content…..By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
> > > administered intravenously.
> >
> > Where did the water the British supplied come from?
>
> Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
>
> —
> Keith Morrison
> [email protected]
>
>>>>
Well, that’s a clever reply. And I suppose the food could have come
>from your buttocks…..
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:30 PDT 1996
Article: 70785 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:36:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad46-142.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – Keith Morrison <[email protected]>Mon, 30 Sep
> 1996 19:28:45 -0300 writes:
> :>
> :>>
> :>> Where did the water the British supplied come from?
> :>
> :>Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
>
> That, or else it was carted in single-handed by l’il Erniekins Zuendel, at the
> tender age of 5 or whatever.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
You might hurt Mr. Zundel’s feelings…..Don’t you believe in the golden rule?
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:31 PDT 1996
Article: 70800 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:22:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd30-209.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
>
> > > Answer: rblackmore has evidently not researched it. The modern
> > > treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement. Kramer provided neither. He
> > > cut off the water. Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
> > > dystentery.
>
> > Yes, this is what I have already said. However, you have already stated that
> > all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
> > stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
> > heart’s content…..By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
> > administered intravenously.
>
> Where did the water the British supplied come from?
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Already answered. Now, don’t you feel foolish for asking this so many times?
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:31 PDT 1996
Article: 70804 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:22:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd07-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > No, it does not. You seem to have a problem with it though. The two cases
> > are not relevant, and neither are the circumstances. If you don’t mind, I really
> > don’t want to enter into a discussion on Auschwitz just yet. I am still researching.
>
> Then tell us about the research that you claim you did. You have read the
> testimony posted here. The British supplied water to the camp in matter of hours
> using the camp equipment.
>
> Where did they get the water?
>
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
This question has been answered in a recent reply to B. Harmon. Follow
the yellow brick road….
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:32 PDT 1996
Article: 70805 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:24:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd07-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> On 30 Sep 1996 02:07:15 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> “Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
> >> in that camp?”
> >>
> >> “I can think of none”.
> >>
> >> Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, “The Belsen Trial”,
> >> p. 54.
Perhaps he should have thought a bit harder.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Danny Keren.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:32 PDT 1996
Article: 70806 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:21:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
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References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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>
>
> <end quotes>
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Already addressed this. Ehlert was a liar who extorted what little possessions
some of the internees had managed to sneak in with them. She was out to
save her own hide.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:33 PDT 1996
Article: 70810 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Human tattooed skins and Jars of Stomachs
Date: 2 Oct 1996 06:47:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Here are some revealing comments from Seaghan Maynes, a war
correspondent with the British Press Association. He later worked
for Reuters, accompanying General Patton on his advance through
France and into Germany. Later Mr. Maynes covered the liberation
of many concentration camps, as well as covering the trials at Nuremberg.
According to Mr. Maynes:
There was a lot of phoney stories written about the camps. The reality was
bad enough, but often some correspondents were inclined to exaggerate.
For instance, I was in Buchenwald when we were told that there were
human skins down in the medical unit. There was a Czech doctor there,
and sure enough, there was a book bound with human skin, with tattoos
on it. But the odd thing was that the doctor, who was Jewish and an inmate
of the camp, showed us two stomachs preserved in glass jars: the stomach of
an inmate, all shrunken, and the stomach of a guard, with some fat on it. It
struck me odd that the Germans should have allowed the stomach of a guard
to be stuck into a glass for exhibition in this doctor’s surgery. Also, why did the
doctor have the skins? Presumably whoever wanted them should have taken
them. There are some odd little stories arising out of these well-publicized events.
At one camp we went into, within half an hour there were typewriters going in one
of the buildings, and there were inmates, chaps who didn’t seem to have been mistreated
at all, sitting typing out press releases and handing out press statements about what had
happened to the inmates. And we’d just entered the damn place! So there was a degree
of organization there.
(At Mauthausen)….
There was a young British paratroop officer with us, who must have been about 22,
whose job was to find out as much as he could about what had happened to the
British paratroopers in Mauthausen, and I had to stop him flogging one of the guards,
a very elderly man, who wasn’t answering the questions as well as the young chap thought
he should. I felt he was UNABLE to give any information-he was an elderly chap who
looked as though he had been employed in the cook house….I thought it was a bit odd
that his hands were tied to the bars of a window, and he was being flogged-a pretty poor
example of trying to get information out of a suspect. These little things stick in your
mind, things that should not have been, that caused you to think about humanity,
brutality, and so on.
End of Quotes.
Well, these two narratives sure help to explain quite a bit, in my opinion. First, it
makes me wonder exactly WHO prepared those human skins and WHY-the “guards” or
the INMATES? As to the second quotation, I think I will file this along with my notes of Hoess’s
“interrogation”…….And there will be more to come. What was that Nizkor wrote about
Germans not being tortured to extract confessions….?
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:34 PDT 1996
Article: 70812 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:55:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>>
OK. This is a good place to start. Now, what happened to Bischoff? Did
he ever give testimony at a trial? Did he ever make a written statement concerning
this alleged document?
Also, what happened to Kammler? Any testimony or additional statements from him?
Finally, the documents about crematoria do not prove people were being gassed.
Also, the blowers in the undressing room were more powerful than the ventilators
in the alleged “gas chamber”. It should have been the other way around.
If you can supply adequate answers to the questions above, we might get somewhere.
I’ll bet you can’t do it-try as you might.
regards the construction of the new crematorium building, it was
> necessary to start immediately in July 1942 because of the situation
> caused by the special actions.
What are these “special actions”?
> Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
> department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
> [REIT, p. 158]
Who found this document, when, and where? And who verified that it was
authentic? Did Kammler verify that it was authentic and that he received it?
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
> the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
> planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
> on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
> cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
> been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
> should be ready by February 20th.
What do you imagine the “gassing cellar” was? Homicidal? Or to delouse the
clothing that had been taken from the people in the undressing room?
Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler
> estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours
> in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 20 1943
What happened to Jahrling? Do you have any additional testimony or statements
>from either him or Kammler in regard to the letter? If not, I would suggest that your
documentation is very poor.
Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to Topf & Sons, March 6 1943
> [Pressac, p. 221]
Of course, you can explain the above with further statements….Wasn’t there
a raging typhus epidemic in the camp during the dates in question-1943. Any
idea as to how many people died?
> At the same time, we would ask you to send an additional quotation
> for the modification of the air-extraction installation in the
> undressing room.
>
Finally, the documents about crematoria do not prove people were being gassed.
Also, the blowers in the undressing room were more powerful than the ventilators
in the alleged “gas chamber”. It should have been the other way around.
>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:35 PDT 1996
Article: 70840 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:15:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 200
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > >
Well, you have answered your own question. It was not Kramer who had
ordered these Hungarians, who were new to the camp, to mistreat prisoners.
Re: If Kramer did all that he could to help the inmates:
It was, but you keep insisting that Kramer did all he could,
> when it is clear that he didn’t.
It certainly is NOT clear that he didn’t. Otherwise we would not keep
addressing this issue. I believe I have posted the truth in this matter.
If you can’t see it-that’s fine. We’ll just move along to something else.
He had equipment in the camp and nearby rivers to supply the
> inmates with water.
What equipment did he have in the camp?
Kramer is only guilty of ignorance here, as he thought the river
was polluted-and it probably was. It was only in his best interests to supply
the inmates with water if he could. He was intelligent enough to realize this.
> I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all.
Which means that sometimes there was reason.
He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
> shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
> hundreds were shot per day.
This would have to be confirmed by autopsies and then investigate
each and every case, as in a regular criminal case.
Also, even the british had to resort to firearms to contain the prisoners, as you
may read on page 37. It is true that they did not shoot AT them, but nevertheless,
they had to resort to firearms.
>
>
If Kramer was simply doing the best he could to save
> the lives of the starving and ill inmates in the camp,
> why on earth were they forced to work like this, without
> any water?
First you need to establish that Kramer issued such an order,
rather than these excesses being committed on whim by the
guards and overseers. Kramer could not be ubiquitous.
Also note that anyone who fell by the wayside was either left
> to die or killed on the spot.
Again, one would need to prove that Kramer gave such an order.
These crimes seem to have occurred sporadically and on the whims of the
guards, often from different units sent during the last weeks of the war. In any
event, pandamonium reigned in the camp by this time, and these guards would
not have given a damn about what Kramer had to say about things at this point
in time anyway.
…and yet you’d like to believe that Kramer had the inmates
> interests at heart.
>
> I wonder more and more why you believe this.
Because it appears to be true. If he was uninterested in their fate, he would
have fled like a common criminal. He also would not have given a damn about
isolating the children from the main body of the camp, where disease was running
rampant. He also showed good faith by writing an appeal to his superiors, who were
the only authorities in germany who could have helped him with the problem they
threw in his lap. THEY were responsible for the conditions of the camp-not Kramer.
I don’t have it handy right now, but you may find it in Reitlingers, “The Final Solution”.
> > Refer to the index under Kramer. All is there.
>
> Sigh.
No. Don’t sigh. I am not your mother to run and address your every little whim.
I have given you the information and you will simply have to visit your library and
read it for yourself, as I had to. I cannot do all your research for you, as I am often
told by the Nizkor people. If you have come this far, you can take the next step.
But you said rather explicitly that people suffering from dysentery
> should be withheld food, which is why Kramer would not give it to them.
>
Please don’t twist my words. I simply indicated that food is not a treatment for dysentery,
much less for gastro-enteritis. Kramer had nothing to do with this. The point was:
Kramer did not have the food for all these people, and even if he did, it would NOT
have helped them. They needed advanced medical treatment. These people were
seriously ill before they were even sent to Kramer during the last 2 months of the war.
It might help you if you could keep that thought in mind.
>
Were all of the inmates suffering form dysentery, btw?
No. Remarkably some patients were in fair health. Some of the other ailments
they had were gastro-enteritis-a very severe condition. Food will cause such patients
to vomit, as well as inducing great pain. I believe I read somewhere that many patients
died when the British attempted to administer food. This would have been caused by
the gastro-enteritis. Typhus was also beginning to spread throughout the camp, undoubtedly
due to the contaminateed water as well as the unhygenic conditions in a camp which
was occupied by some 60,000 inmates! The typhus was carried into the camp
by Hungarian prisoners transferred into the camp in February, one month
before the camp’s liberation. Tuberculosis was also a problem, as it is in most
institutions even today. However, in one of the barracks, the British Medical officer
testified that “In regards to health, their general condition was not too bad and their
clothing was quite reasonable.” Pg. 34. (Re:the inmates)
The camp was originally built to accomodate
only a fraction of this number. The influx came only within the last few months of the
war. 13,000 people had already died from a variety of illnesses before Kramer was
able to arrange for the transfer of the camp over to the British. Thousands more were
to die even after the British assumed control. 80% of the people had dysentery.
The camp was woefully lacking in medical supplies. There were 300 aspirins for some
17,000 inmates in one compound.
I’d be more convinced if i had some evidence that Kramer actually did
> anything to improve conditions in the camp.
Well, there already is evidence of this, which I addressed above.
The rivers were not contaminated, as the british were able to supply
> the camp with potable water from them. And yet there is no evidence
that it needed to be treated. Also, the British
> used equipment located _within the camp_ to supply water, so Kramer
certainly had the means to provide water.
This is debateable, and perhaps he simply did not possess the ingenuity to
deal effectively with the issue. I still maintain that the river water was
generally thought of by both the Germans and British initially as NOT suitable
for drinking. In fact, on page 45 of the Belsen Trial you may read the
following:
“All water was brought in by British water trucks.” Also:
“The water in the tanks and in the concentration area was completely foul,
and as an immediate emergency measure some army water-carts were sent
in.” Pg. 54.
It is clear that this water did NOT come from the river, but from British supplies.
In fact, though a British officer later stated that the water pumped in from the river
was “fit to drink”, they still brought in water from British water carts for immediate
use in the camp. It took four to five days to supply the camp with water from the
river. As to HOW this officer knew that the river water was potable, or whether
he himself drank of it, the records do not say.
If the water at Belsen was contaminated, why didn’t Kramer do anything about it?
>
Well, what could he have done? Even the British had to resort to their own water
supplies to relieve the camp for the first week. I think that Kramer addressed this
issue by recognizing his own incompetence in not being able to supply the camp with
water, and arranging for the British to come to the relief of the camp. THAT is what
he appears to have done.
Mr. Giwer provided no citation for this. Given his nasty lying habit,
> i don’t believe him.
I cannot answer for Mr. Giwer, but I did try to provide you with some additional
information in regard to the water issue.
Also, what was your point about food? I stated that food is not a treatment for the
diseases mentioned. I did not state that food was delliberately withheld. What were
you chortling about? You did not “catch” me in a contradiction, as you apparently
thought you did. Apparently it would give you great joy to do so….I wonder why?
Now you’d like me to believe you only meant ‘solid food.’
What other food is there? It is what I always meant. By the way, I told you that these
people needed intravenous treatment, which means high concentrations of minerals,
electrolytes, and glucose. Do you need further explanation?
Kramer had water and food and medical supplies.
>
> Rather than make some effort to tend the sick, he forced them
> to haul corpses without food or water. If they fell, they
> were beaten, shot, or left to die.
>
This has in no way been proven. You need to connect Kramer directly.
>>
Concerning the children:
Methinks you should use your common sense. The children were isolated by Kramer,
as well as receivng extra rations of sweets and other goods. Sorry to spoil your
preconceived notions…..As a matter of fact, I am not sorry….a time comes when people
ought to confront the realities of a situation. You have been taught to believe in the
pure evil of Germans for so many years, that it must hurt when your icons are shattered.
It was not I who misrepresented the facts to you.
Concerning Ehlert:
Yes, i’ve read your post. It does nothing to convince me that Kramer
> was innocent.
>
That is simply because you REFUSE to acknowledge the truth. You are apparently
blinded by your own prejudice. There is an old saying: “Prejudice, which sees what
it pleases, cannot see what is plain.” Or perhaps more aptly put: “We do not see things
as they are-we see things as we are.”
rb
>
>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:35 PDT 1996
Article: 70841 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:20:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > That is nonsense. People drank it. They did not suffer. Ergo it was
> > > potable. The British supplies the water by turning on the pumps. Since the
> > > “pollution” is a figment of your imagination it was a relatively easy process.
>
> > This is avoiding the issue.
>
>
> The only one avoiding the issue is you.
>
> The British supplied water in a matter of hours. Where did it come from?
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
British army trucks-and it was NOT from the river.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:36 PDT 1996
Article: 70842 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:21:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > And I will say it again: Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
>
> Kramer was a murderer.
>
> Where did the British get the water to supply the camp?
>
> –YFE
>
You’re avoiding the issues. By the way, I answered your question about the water.
See my current posts.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:37 PDT 1996
Article: 70855 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Kramer, Watta Guy!
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:31:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >
> Source: “Soldiers of Evil” Tom Segev (McGraw Hill; 1987). The book
> is a re-writing of Dr. Segev’s doctoral thesis in history at Boston University. It was
> study of the commandants of the concentration camps.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Thanks for your “help”, but I already own the book you mentioned, and I have
read it. As to your other comments, we can do without your attacking Catholics.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 10:54:06 PDT 1996
Article: 70873 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:18:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 03:25:15 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>And I will say it again: Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
>
> You may say it until the cows come home, Mr. Blackmore, that will not make it
> true.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
No, but the facts do make it true. Pity that you refuse to admit it.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 10:54:07 PDT 1996
Article: 70875 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:19:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > What evidence? That Kramer thought it was polluted? Well, we can’t very
> > well ask him today, can we?
>
> Then why are you alleging that he did?
>
> >No, it is up to you now to prove that the British
> > did not use filtering machines to supply drinkable water to the detainees.
>
> They testified that all they used was the pumps and supplies already in the
> camps. If you have proof they were lying, post it.
>
> > this is an odd request from a man who suggested that all Kramer need do was remove
> > rotting corpses covered in excrement from the water in order for the prisoners to
> relieve
> > their thirst. Thank God you weren’t in command of that camp instead of Kramer!
>
> This is your description. The British found no such conditions. They hooked
> up the water supply and supplied potable drinking water to the inmates. Kramer never
> did.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Well, you are in error. Read my current postings.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 12:19:52 PDT 1996
Article: 70902 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust researchism
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:03:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
> [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>
> >
> > The more books there are for the story, the more the lie stands
> >out. From a Holocaust deniers position, the more the merrier.
>
> Quite often Holocaust dependants will post evidence for the
> researcher on alt.revisionism, most often being a Mr.Keren. The
> general practice is to post sections of eyewitness testimony or
> extracts of reports or other documents. The reason much of the stuff
> is omitted is because the longer any particular testimony or report,
> the more there is to point out discrepancies, either within the very
> posted text or when compared to other testimonies and/or documents.
> In the case of long eyewitness testimonies and documents, the
> more extended they are the worse for the Holocaust story.
>
>>>>
Seems like you are now learning the “tricks of the trade”. It is a known
fact that magicians NEVER want to publicize their little secrets. This is
one game of 3 card monty that they are bound to lose.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 12:19:53 PDT 1996
Article: 70916 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz
Date: 2 Oct 1996 18:39:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>
> Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz, Auschwitz
>
> To those who are new to alt.revisionism.
> Take note of how 99.99% of the story is focused on Auschwitz. At one
> time the Holocaust facts were that Auschwitz was the center for the
> extermination of 4 million people. Currently it is somewhere around 1
> million. Even, according to one of the Holocaust dependents most cited
> authorities, the numbers are more like 600 thousand. Down, down, down
> go the numbers.
>
> Yet there are other camps said to have been the centers for the
> extermination of far greater numbers. Majdanek is said to have been a
> place where 1.5 million were exterminated. Treblinka 2 million.
>
> In addition to this, both Treblinka and Majdanek are said to have
> been over run by the Soviets while they were still in operation and
> that a “Extraordinary Commission” was installed within a day of the
> capture to investigate any crimes whereas Auschwitz is said to have
> ceased exterminating people 5 months prior to being over run and that
> the Germans had initiated a demolition program to cover up the alleged
> exterminations.
>
> One would think that with the numbers for Treblinka and Majdanek
> each being 2 to 3 times that of Auschwitz and that they were over run
> while still in full operation and that Auschwitz had destroyed all the
> evidence, that the two former camps would be the center of focus to
> show that the Holocasut story is true.
>
> Thus it appears the Holocaust dependents are presenting what we
> should expect is the lesser evidence instead of what we should expect
> would be the greater evidence.
>
> Interesting.
>
>>>>
That “Extraordinary Soviet Commission” again. Please refer to my 2 posts “Soviet
Def Comedy Jam” parts onne and two, for more hilarious anecdotes from that
“distinguished” committee.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 14:39:49 PDT 1996
Article: 70927 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 11:31:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > Matt Giwer who illegally harasses those who prove him an idiot writes:
> > On 30 Sep 1996 06:38:35 GMT, [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
> > >> Mr. Giwer also
> > >> makes a good point when he adds that the British had to have provided
> some
> > >special
> > >> filtering apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.
>
> > > That is, obviously, incorrect. The British did no more than hook up the
> > >equipment at the camp.
>
> > > Where did they get the water?
>
> > Where did they get the electricity?
>
>
> Obviously from the camp. There are no reports that the electricity was
> out.
The electricity WAS out.
>
> Now answer the question. Where did the water come from?
>From the same place where Jesus got his loaves and fishes….
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 16:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 70949 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:29:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd30-209.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
:>
. I am still researching.
>
> Yes, I am sure you are still “researching”. Hope it goes well.
It all depends on your point of view.
>
> Funny that you raise the mane Kramer and once someone points out that he was
> former commandant of Birkenau, you decide you don’t want to discuss Auschwitz
> because you are “researching” it.
It’s not “funny” its a fact. Like you, “I will write no line before its time”.
> To accelerate that process, allow me to point out that most of “revisionists”
> rubbish is available on the Web and you only need search for it. Of course,
> if you happen to be interested in the truth, you can start at:
Thanks for the advice, but I do not refer to either of them. I do my own research and
I think for myself.
>
> —
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 16:20:19 PDT 1996
Article: 70950 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:34:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
>
> > > Answer: rblackmore has evidently not researched it. The modern
> > > treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement. Kramer provided neither. He
> > > cut off the water. Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
> > > dystentery.
>
> > Yes, this is what I have already said. However, you have already stated that
> > all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
> > stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
> > heart’s content…..By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
> > administered intravenously.
>
> Where did the water the British supplied come from?
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Apparently it came from the river which flowed nearby the camp.
Kramer believed, and probably with good reason, that this water
was polluted. Mr. Giwer pointed out that the British must have
brought up some type of field equipment to pump in the water
and filter it somehow to make it potable. I am not sure that simple
boiling will make river water potable. Of course, if someone is
already dying, I doubt whether drinking the water would make
any difference anyway. If anything, Kramer stands
convicted of ignorance here.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 16:20:20 PDT 1996
Article: 70951 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:26:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad46-142.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
> >
>
> Like your ‘opinion’ that the Discovery channel is knowingly misleading the
> public by promoting a false figure of the number killed at Auschwitz ?
Another distortion. What I said was it was IRRESPONSIBLE, whether knowingly
or unwittingly. And that is STILL my answer. What’s the matter? Didn’t they reply
to your enquiry?
>
> What is your basis for the opinion regarding the Simon Wiesenthal Center ?
The truth. Something you know little of.
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 16:20:21 PDT 1996
Article: 70954 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 10:32:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd30-209.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 30 Sep 1996 02:09:25 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> #This is avoiding the issue. The rivers of Europe are and have been highly
> #polluted for decades now. If the British did not make the water potable,
> #perhaps many prisoners died as a result of drinking this water. Please
> #provide the proof that the British did not use filtering equipment.
>
> Giwers rules: He who asserts must prove.
>
> The two of you have made the assertion. YOU prove it.
>
>
>>>>
Try reading an encyclopedia.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 17:00:59 PDT 1996
Article: 70972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human tattooed skins and Jars of Stomachs
Date: 2 Oct 1996 20:16:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Here are some revealing comments from Seaghan Maynes, a war etc.
>
-From:-
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
>
I have never heard of any such
> suggestion before, and I suspect that you are just making it up.
>
Before you allow your suspicions to carry you away into the land of non-
research, I suggest that you research the quotes by the correspondent
who was there at the time. It happened to be his opinion, and now this
opinion is shared by myself. It is unecessary for me to make anything up
because there is so much actual evidence I can turn to in support of my
claims. I would not “make anything up” in any event. It seems to me that
people have only been hearing ONE side of this issue for decades. This is
unfair.
The old man being flogged was Hoess? You are making a common mistake
> in assuming that because one man was beaten, all men were beaten.
>
Of course the old man was not Hoess, but what I am trying to explain to
you and others is that this sort of mistreatment was the RULE rather than
the exception. I will post additional details later this evening on this very subject.
I will note that the guards at Dachau were simply lined up
> and shot. This action on the part of the liberators is explicable, but
> it cannot be excused.
It is not even explicable in my opinion, because many of the men who were
shot had absolutely NOTHING to do with the camp, as most of the original
contingent of guards had fled before the camp was even liberated.
Meanwhile I have seen no evidence that defendants taken to trial were
> ever tortured,
Then I will provide some for you to look at….
and I include in this broad assertion the defendants at
> the Malmedy trial. If you have some evidence of torture–besides
> potboiler journalism like Rupert Butler’s book–please post it.
I will hopefully provide you with this evidence very soon. However, you
are grieviously mistaken in your evaluation of the methods used to obtain
information at the Malmedy trial. I will post the info soon, but it is a subject
which requires an assessment in depth. Also, I owuld NOT refer to Mr. Butler’s
writings as “pot-boiler” journalism. He is an able historian. if you have not
done so already, I would suggest that you read his books before offering a
negative comment.
>
> I have no idea what this monolithic Nizkor is beyond the loose
> aggregation of volunteers who have been helping whip the web pages
> into shape
Perhaps one day you will find out, as I have been slowing finding out.
Fianlly, could you PLEASE post the source of your quotations so that
> others can check them both for context and accuracy? It is simply a
> common courtesy.
I will post the sources IF I am asked. You have asked, so here is the source:
“Eyewitnesses at Nuremberg”, Hilary Gaskin, Arms and Armour Press, Villiers
House, London, 1990, pg.2,3.
>
>
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 17:46:48 PDT 1996
Article: 70984 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 2 Oct 1996 19:50:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd25-008.compuserve.com
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>
> >OK. This is a good place to start. Now, what happened to Bischoff? Did
> >he ever give testimony at a trial? Did he ever make a written statement concerning
> >this alleged document?
> >
>
> What do you think? How much reasearch have you done? You come into
> this newsgroup denying like crazy and now we find that you really
> haven’t done much research at all!
>
> >Also, what happened to Kammler? Any testimony or additional statements from him?
> >
>
> What do you think. The information is in _Anatomy_ from which portions
> have been posted in this group many times. Why do you want us to do
> all this work for you?
>
> >Finally, the documents about crematoria do not prove people were being gassed.
> >Also, the blowers in the undressing room were more powerful than the ventilators
> >in the alleged “gas chamber”. It should have been the other way around.
> >
>
> Why?
>
> >If you can supply adequate answers to the questions above, we might get somewhere.
> >I’ll bet you can’t do it-try as you might.
> >
>
> But you Belling/Blackmore/Whoever hasn’t done any initial research.
> You wouldn’t know what an acceptable answer is if it hit you square on
> the nose for what is obviously acceptable to you would be that which
> meets the conditions of your personal denials.
>
> > regards the construction of the new crematorium building, it was
> >> necessary to start immediately in July 1942 because of the situation
> >> caused by the special actions.
> >
> >What are these “special actions”?
>
> What do you think the term meant? What did the SS mean by the term?
> What have SS members of all kinds testified that this term means?
>
>
> The rest is more of his admissions of ignorance concerning this
> subject.
>
>
>
>>>>
Go on deluding yourself. Your answers to important questions are always the same
as your colleagues-no answer at all. As I suspected, Anantomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp says nothing about the eventual fate of Kammler. However, there is a reference to
Pruefer, the designers of the crematoriums, as well as Bischoff. Here is what is related:
On May 30, (1945), after a botched investigation, the U.S. Military
Police arrested Pruefer.Ludwig Topf committed suicide on the night
of May 30-31-needlessly, as it turned out, since on June 13, Pruefer was set free, even
managing to come away with AN ORDER FOR A FURNACE FROM THE AMERICANS.
The U.S. investigators, failing to search the company’s home offices, did not “understand”
Topf’s role in setting up the gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>From June 14 to 21, Ernst Wolfgang Topf and Pruefer “apparently” destroyed all the
contracts the firm had signed with the SS at Auschwitz. On July 3, the Soviets occupied.
Erfurt. On October 11, Gustav Braun, Topf’s director of development, was questioned
by the Soviet military about Pruefer and the Topf brothers. On March 4, 1946, the
Soviets arrested Braun (who had become temporary director) Sander, Pruefer, and Schultze.
Erdmann escaped internment because he was REGISTERED IN A COMMUNIST UNION.
Braun was condemned to 25 years in the Gulag but was freed in 1955. The fate of
Pruefer is unknown……..Unlike the Americans, the Soviets immediately “discerned”
Pruefer’s role in the construction of Auschwitz.
Bischoff led a quiet post-war life and died in 1950. Only two members of the Zentral-
bauleitung, Walter Dejaco and Fritz Ertl, went before a tribunal…..The trial of the two
architects of the crematoria in Vienna in January 1972 ended with the RELEASE OF BOTH.
(Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, pg. 240).
Well, now, how interesting. Thanks to Mr. Curtis we now have a few answers. Number one,
neither Curtis nor “Anatomy” can tell us what happened to Kammler.
2. We now see that Topf died a “suicide” while in American hands….how convenient.
I wonder if anyone can tell us a bit about Herr Topf’s arrest, capture, and interrogation?
Also, the names and ranks of his captors and the complete circumstances surrounding
his interrogation and alleged suicide. “Botched”?…I think not.. What a web we weave……
3. We next read that Pruefer was set free (!), as well as receiving a commission to design
a furnace for the allies! How strange!
4. The Americans “failed” to understand Topf’s “role”. I believe they understood his role
quite well, that is why we are left with an alleged “suicide”. They simply wanted him out of
the way. They understood better than most that “loose tongues sink ships”.
5. Next we are told that Wolfgang Topf and Pruefer “apparently” destroyed all contracts
with the SS. Why “apparently”? Perhaps these contracts were destroyed by people with
other interests in mind….
6. Not to overlook the Soviet actions: How curious that Erdmann escaped
internment because he was a member of a communist union. Also, the early
release dates for the other two captives simply proves that the whole arrest
and trial of the other two gentleman was a complete FARCE, and was prompted
by base political motives. Notice that the “evil” Braun was released in 1955!
No one knows what finally happened to Pruefer….apparently the Soviets advised him
to conveniently “get lost”. The Soviets did not just “discern” Pruefer’s role-they
CREATED it. Those Soviet Broadway show trials!
7. The man Bischoff, as we are told, led a QUIET LIFE UNTIL 1950! The infamous
Bischoff, whose alleged communications are relentlessly promoted by Holocaust
enthusiasts, was apparently kept under wraps for specific reasons. No trial, no
imprisonment, nothing-and why? Because these communications amount to NOTHING.
NIL.
8. Dejaco and Ertl were the two victims selected to “take the heat”. Underlings.
How apropos!
9. The trial in Vienna in January 1972 ended in the release and vindication of both.
How interesting…..
My thanks to Mr. Curtis. Mazel tov! By the way, what DID happen to Kammler?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:27 PDT 1996
Article: 71025 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 03:54:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd07-104.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>
> > > The British supplied water in a matter of hours. Where did it come from?
>
> > British army trucks-and it was NOT from the river.
>
> Wrong. The British brought up the trucks and then found that the water
> which Kramer denied the prisoners was potable.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Wrong. Read the testimony.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:28 PDT 1996
Article: 71026 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:03:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > >
> > > Where did the water the British supplied come from?
>
> > Already answered. Now, don’t you feel foolish for asking this so many times?
>
> No. Becasue your answers are dishonest.
>
> Where did the British get the water?
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
read the test. I even quoted it for you.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:29 PDT 1996
Article: 71034 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:06:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd07-104.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> > > You may say it until the cows come home, Mr. Blackmore, that will not make it
> > > true.
>
> > No, but the facts do make it true. Pity that you refuse to admit it.
>
> WHAT FACTS? You have presented no “facts” whatsoever.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Are you suffering from delusional thinking?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:29 PDT 1996
Article: 71052 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:09:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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>
> Chuck wrote
> Sure he will… :-)) just like he always does…later, but later
> never comes. This guy is just full of it. “substance that stinks” he
> must mean his breath.
> Chuck
>
>>>>
No, Chuck, I haven’t pasted my lips to the master’s behind like you have……
Remember, a sknunk always smells his own hole first…..
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:30 PDT 1996
Article: 71053 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 2 Oct 1996 18:37:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>
> Its interesting how the extermination camp Madjdanek is said to
> have been over run by the Soviets while it was still in operation and
> yet there is more focus, energy and Holocaust facts alleged for
> Auschwitz, which is said to have stopped it’s exterminations 4 to 5
> months before the Soviets arrived, and had executed a plan to cover up
> the evidence.
>
> Adding to this interest would be the current Holocaust fact that
> 1,500,000 people are said to have died at Majdanek, 5, 6 or 7 hundred
> thousand more than Auschwitz.
>
> Review of the Holocaust dependents record for this focus on
> Auschwitz might reveal a ratio of a hundred to one, maybe a thousand
> to one, compared to any mention of Majdanek. Seems it should be the
> other way around.
>
> Holocaust accounting defies the logical and probable.
>
>
>>>>
It is also curious that the Nazis should rush to construct a lethal gas
chamber at Dachau in 1944. Seems as though they just couldn’t wait
for those allied cameramen to arrive……”I’m ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille.”
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:31 PDT 1996
Article: 71059 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes faked?
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:09:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Now, aren’t you glad you brought this subject up? I am.
>
> Thanks. You did indeed surprise me. I’ll do what I can to check the
> sources.
>
>>>>
OK. That is fair.
rb
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:32 PDT 1996
Article: 71060 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:32:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd34-133.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 04:48:52 GMT writes:
> :>
> :> : :
> :>The source is uncommonly good, from your perspectives, actually.
>
> The source is very good by _your_ standards, which means it is lousy be anyone
> else’s standards.
OK. I will give it to you again: The book was published under the auspices of the
International Dachau Committee, which also co-ordinates the current Dachau Museum
in Bavaria, Germany. Hardly a revisionist source. Do you still think the source is “lousy”?
>
> :> I know. Because you say so. Or did Greg or Ernie tell you so?
Now, I must address the above in depth. Number one, it is not because I say so,
but because a Swiss historian has recently proven this is the case. Now, you are
clearly implying that I am in communication with Greg Raven and Ernst Zundel. I
will state for the record that this is a nasty lie. Whatever your motives are for asserting
this, I do not know, but I don’t take orders from anyone. Also, I never invent anything
>from whole cloth. Put up or shut up. These comments of yours are quite revealing.
>
> :>(Rauschning’s lies and fabrications snipped)
>
> My ass.
Sorry if I embarrassed you with your pals at Nizkor.
>
> :>>
> :>What you posted is not very interesting.
Sometimes the truth can be very prosaic. Not at all like the Hollywood movies
we are accustomed to seeing.
I am only interested in facts, and not interpretations.
> :>I don’t want this to degenerate into a theological squabble. fact is-he had no influence-even
> :>party members thought he was a lunatic, as can be seen from reading the Von Hassell diaries.
> :>By the way, someone told me that you are using a pseudonym-is this true?
>
> It seems that whatever I post that rebuts something you have alleged, is no
> longer of interest to you. As I said, Mr. Blackmore, you have a double
> standard that gets more and more transparent every day.
It is not a double standard. i am just trying to induce you to research your sources,
many of which seem to be a product of the old war hysteria.
>
> No, Mr. Blackmore, I am not using a pseudonym. It us you who is using
> several.
If you ever become a revisionist, no doubt you will use more pseudonyms than I
ever have.
rb
>
>
>
>
>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:33 PDT 1996
Article: 71062 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:33:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd34-133.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> >> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> >> 09:30:08 GMT writes:
> >> :>
> >> :>>
> >
> >> Hitler subscribed to _Der Stuermer_. When I answer that such a demand is
> >> silly, you go all over the lot. The point is, as I said previously, that
> >> Hitler _read_ Streicher’s newspaper. That Hitler would ban Streicher from
> >> speaking is hardly surprising in that Streicher had managed to cross Goering.
> >> But that did not lessen Hitler’s admiration for Streicher, the proof of which
> >> is in the _Tischgespraeche_.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> —
> >> Gord McFee
> >> I’ll write no line before its time
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Well, for all of that it proves nothing of interest….at least not to me.
>
> Of course complete pictures are of no interest to this individual.
> Complete pictures tend to clear up his distorted presentations.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
The reason I say what I say is because I happen to have researched this
issue thoroughly. it’s something you ought to try sometime.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:34 PDT 1996
Article: 71063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:39:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd34-133.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> On 23 Sep 1996 09:15:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Nope. You outnumber me. I have to have a few advantages besides the truth.
> >>
> >> Since most of what you write is devoid of truth I’d say you need even more
> >> help yet.
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Not from the likes of a confirmed liar like yourself.
>
> Another example of Belling/Blackmore/Whoever taking the high road of
> debate. You may as well address Mark’s stuff fro you seem to be diving
> into the gutter of nondebate now.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
If I do, I will have plenty of company from Nizkor. Think of it! We will finally
get to meet!
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:34 PDT 1996
Article: 71068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:55:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad13-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> > >
> > > Here! In this forum?!? Get thee to the National Archives and do the
> > > comparisons yourself. If you feel that Larson was not qualified as an
> > > expert then present your evidence. If you feel that the evidence was
> > > not properly put into evidence (per-1940 law) then provide your
> > > evidence.
>
> > Don’t need to. You’re making the accusation. Now prove it.
>
> And the proof is the expert’s report. It has been posted. You are
> challenging that report. At that point, the burden of proof is on you.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
I am asking not for his report-but for the reports themselves. what is so difficult about
posting them? Do it-you will make this doubting Thomas a believer.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:35 PDT 1996
Article: 71069 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:58:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad13-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] writes:
> >> > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >> >
> >> > Here! In this forum?!? Get thee to the National Archives and do the
> >> > comparisons yourself. If you feel that Larson was not qualified as an
> >> > expert then present your evidence. If you feel that the evidence was
> >> > not properly put into evidence (per-1940 law) then provide your
> >> > evidence.
> >
> >> Don’t need to. You’re making the accusation. Now prove it.
> >
> > And the proof is the expert’s report. It has been posted. You are
> >challenging that report. At that point, the burden of proof is on you.
> >
> > –YFE
>
> How many times do we have to tell this individual that he owns the
> burden of his own doubts? If an historian has a doubt he researches
> his doubt until it is satisfied using proper historical methods. Most
> good and well trained historians do not walk up to their colleagues
> and proclaim that accepted history is false and that they should prove
> it. What they will do is throw the works of history already done on
> the subject and tell him to do his own work. Blackmore/Belling or
> whoever doesn’t seem to be able to grasp this concept.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
No. You do not set the framework for who needs to prove what to whom.
You are the prosecutors. You have made these accusations in the past without
providing the definite proof to support your allegations. We are waiting for that
proof. we are entitled to it, as are the German people.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:36 PDT 1996
Article: 71071 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:42:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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Ken Lewis writes:
> Hey there Herr Belling, you _do_ have a thin skin, don’t you? Well I guess
> it does get sort of tiresome when your research is continually being shown
> to be faulty
Well, it surely has not been shown faulty by you yet.
> But, since you are now stooping so low as to call me a liar, why not give up
> the pretense and slide the rest of the way into the slime with the rest of
> the deniars. You all do sooner or later and it is about all that you have
> left.
You gave up your pretense a long time ago. I was ready to call the exorcist to
cast your evil spirit out.
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:36 PDT 1996
Article: 71080 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 3 Oct 1996 06:01:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> m
I beleive it is you who are swept
> away with the plethora of data and information that makes up the truth
> of history in these two cases.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Nice try, but it doesn’t fly. Nizkor states that Jewish people and others were
gassed at Dachau. Now, don’t answer my question with a question. Where are
the original reports? It is SO obvious that they DO NOT exist, or they would have
been plastered in every pro-Holocaust book EVER written. The proof does not
exist and your accusations are worthless.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:37 PDT 1996
Article: 71081 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:05:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > It was, but you keep insisting that Kramer did all he could,
> > > when it is clear that he didn’t.
> >
> > It certainly is NOT clear that he didn’t. Otherwise we would not keep
> > addressing this issue.
>
> We keep addressing the issue becasue you continue to make foolish
> assertions and refuse to deal with the facts.
>
>
> > I believe I have posted the truth in this matter.
>
> Bullshit.
>
>
> > What equipment did he have in the camp?
> > Kramer is only guilty of ignorance here, as he thought the river
> > was polluted-and it probably was. It was only in his best interests to supply
> > the inmates with water if he could. He was intelligent enough to realize this.
>
> This is laughable.
>
>
>
> > This would have to be confirmed by autopsies and then investigate
> > each and every case, as in a regular criminal case.
>
> This is even more laughable.
>
> –YFE
>
>
>>>>
Right. the big-time lawyer says that we don’t need to prove crimes alleged
against Germans. Where was their “dream team”?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:38 PDT 1996
Article: 71095 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust researchism
Date: 3 Oct 1996 06:37:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (pgroff) writes:
> On 2 Oct 1996 08:03:13 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> (Moran snipped)
> >>Seems like you are now learning the “tricks of the trade”. It is a known
> >fact that magicians NEVER want to publicize their little secrets. This is
> >one game of 3 card monty that they are bound to lose.
> It would seem there rblackmore/belling, that with just one more ID you
> could be playing 3 card monte, but as it is now, you are playing tag
> team with yourself. I would assume that some how this has added a
> great deal of integrity and honesty to your post. “Tricks of the
> trade.” Yes it would seem that you quite capable of learning the Carto
> Two step.
>
>>>>
Do I know you?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:39 PDT 1996
Article: 71099 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 03:59:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:30:33 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
>
> >[To “[email protected]”, aka “jbelling”]
>
> ># I hate to be the one stating the obvious, but the British
> ># brought the water up from the river,
>
The river water was not pumped into the camp until 4 to 5 days AFTER
British army trucks arrived to deliver water from their own field supplies.
YOU are in error.
=====
> Read the information holohuggers fear
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
> http://www.codoh.com/
> http://www.webcom.com/~zundel
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:39 PDT 1996
Article: 71101 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:07:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> > > You may say it until the cows come home, Mr. Blackmore, that will not make it
> > > true.
>
> > No, but the facts do make it true. Pity that you refuse to admit it.
>
> WHAT FACTS? You have presented no “facts” whatsoever.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
By the way-never try to talk a lynch mob out of hanging their victims.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:40 PDT 1996
Article: 71106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:11:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > For once I see that you are full of a substance that stinks as well as lacking
> > in personal integrity. The Malmedy confessions were obtained by torture, and
> > that is a fact. I’ll embarrass you in the eyes of the public with them later.
>
> The charges of torture at the Malmedy trial were thoroughly disproved.
> Clay states this. The Simpsom report states this. Extensive hearing before the
> Senate establish this.
>
> You are lying.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
You are in error, as usual.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:41 PDT 1996
Article: 71115 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:21:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > > > > [email protected] writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > # [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > > > > ## Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?
> > > > >
> > > > > # Whatever his interrogators told him.
>
> > > > I am not familiar with the interview given by Muench. Perhaps you would
> care to
> > > > post it along with his previous court testimony, so we may all examine it?
>
> > > Then why did you claim it was fraudulent?
>
> > I didn’t say it was fraudulent. You said I said it was fraudulent.
>
> You stated that he said whatever his interrogators told him. That is a
> claim that the interview was fraudulent.
>
> You are becoming another Giwer.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Rhetorical answer. My, how your feathers get ruffled.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:42 PDT 1996
Article: 71116 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:20:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad27-198.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] writes:
> >> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> > [email protected] writes:
> >> >
> >> > # [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> >
> >> > ## Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
> >> > ## [Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
> >> > ## Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
> >> > ## VIII, p. 313-321]
> >> > ## ———————————————————————-
> >> > ## Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?
> >> >
> >> > # Whatever his interrogators told him.
> >
> >> I am not familiar with the interview given by Muench. Perhaps you would care to
> >> post it along with his previous court testimony, so we may all examine it?
> >
> > Then why did you claim it was fraudulent?
> >
> > –YFE
>
> Ah, but there’s the rub. Mr. Belling/Blackmore/Whoever is showing more
> and more his unfamiliarity with the history of the Holocaust. He wants
> to deny and I guess it becomes easier to deny if one is ignorant of
> the history. This ignorance Mr. Belling/Blackmore/Whoever has shown
> this group over and over again. I think it would be wise for Mr.
> Belling/Blackmore/Whoever to catch up on his history before he
> proceeds further.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
One step at a time…..one step at a time…….
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:42 PDT 1996
Article: 71117 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:22:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> rblackmore[email protected] writes:
> # [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> ## You _post_ the proof of your statements or admit you are
> ## just fabricating things.
>
> # when I get around to it.
>
> Will that be before Giwer gets a job?
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
Will it be before you get a life?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:43 PDT 1996
Article: 71118 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:27:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad27-198.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>
> > > No. You have, in fact, stated your statements were based on “reasonable
> > > suspicions.”
>
> > Yes, based upon facts.
>
> You have failed to present a single fact indicating that Hoess was tortured
> into giving a confession.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
The posts are not intended for you-they are intended for unprejudiced people who
don’t need other people to think for them.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:44 PDT 1996
Article: 71126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:45:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <[email protected]> – Keith Morrison <[email protected]>Mon, 30 Sep
> :>> 1996 19:28:45 -0300 writes:
> :>> :>
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Where did the water the British supplied come from?
> :>> :>
> :>> :>Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
> :>>
> :>> That, or else it was carted in single-handed by l’il Erniekins Zuendel, at the
> :>> tender age of 5 or whatever.
> :>>
> :>>
> :>> —
> :>> Gord McFee
> :>> I’ll write no line before its time
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>>>>
> :>You might hurt Mr. Zundel’s feelings…..Don’t you believe in the golden rule?
>
> Herr Zuendel ist ein Feigling und ein Arschloch. Es macht mir nichts, dass er
> meine Meinung von ihm hasst oder liebt. Seine Behauptungen sind erstunken und
> erlogen.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Sehr niedlich. I’ll bet you say that to all the girls…..
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:44 PDT 1996
Article: 71127 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:28:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad27-198.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> >> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> >> :>
> >> :>I must say that Filip Mueller is far from being a reliable witness, in my opinion.
> >> :>As to Pery Broad, he changed his testimony several times. I find him unreliable
> >> :>as well.
> >>
> >> Mr. Blackmore, you are violating your own rules more and more every day. One
> >> begins to suspect there is a double standard at play here. It’s not good
> >> enough to dismiss a witness simply because you find him “unreliable”. Perhaps
> >> you could enlighten us as to _why_ you find him unreliable.
> >>
> >> Gord McFee
> >> I’ll write no line before its time
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Well, yes, I could….but I don’t have the time to do so right now.
>
> IOW you will not. You seem to be here to provide us all with
> unsubstantiated opinions.
>
> > I will refer you
> >to Mr. Mueller’s testimony at the Zundel trial and ask you to read through it and
> >then get back to me…..
>
> No, you make things add up then we’ll know what to get back to you
> about. Make a case Belling/Blackmore.
>
>
>
>>>>
One step at a time…..I am not ubiquitous, like big brother.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:45 PDT 1996
Article: 71128 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.icix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 03:56:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd07-104.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > >
> > > Where did they get the water?
>
> > This question has been answered in a recent reply to B. Harmon. Follow
> > the yellow brick road….
>
> The answer is nothing more than your speculation.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
No it isn’t. It is in the testimony.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:46 PDT 1996
Article: 71130 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Kramer, Watta Guy!
Date: 3 Oct 1996 03:55:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>
> > > Source: “Soldiers of Evil” Tom Segev (McGraw Hill; 1987). The book
> > > is a re-writing of Dr. Segev’s doctoral thesis in history at Boston University. It
> was
> > > study of the commandants of the concentration camps.
>
> > Thanks for your “help”, but I already own the book you mentioned, and I have
> > read it. As to your other comments, we can do without your attacking
> Catholics.
>
> Then why have you failed to deal with the facts contained therein?
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
I am dealing with the information contained therein, as well as other sources-
are you?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:46 PDT 1996
Article: 71138 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human tattooed skins and Jars of Stomachs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 03:53:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> The point, of course, is that you cannot simply point to one anecdote
> and claim ALL confessions MUST therefore be torture.
No, quite true, but what I DO claim is that the use of torture, threat, bribery,
intimidation, etc., was the RULE rather than the exception.
>
> In particular, you need to deal with the postwar trials conducted by
> the West German government.
I will gladly do so at a future date. Each item in it’s turn.
> I’m afraid “Staeglich Says” just doesn’t cut it, especially as I have
> yet to see even one instance of a recantation
I believe there were quite a few recantations, but I will need to research it.
> Even harder to deal with are testimonies such as that given by
> Treblinka guard Franz Suchomel in the documentary “Shoah.” Please tell me
> what torture he was subjected to.
I never claimed he was tortured.
He only spoke under the condition that
> his name not be used (a promise Lanzmann gave and then broke).
Well, Lanzmann lied and maybe Suchomel lied.
>
> “Revisionists” pretend that the Nuremburg testimony was all that there
> was.
I never claimed this.
‘Taint so, and the tippy-toeing around this point is rather glaring.
One step at a time…..not tippy-toeing, but one step at a time….
We need to begin somewhere, and Nuremberg is probably the best
place from which to embark.Nuremberg was the mother of all modern
war crimes trials, and the most important. It wasthe actual starting point
, from which all others proceeded. It set a precedent.
However, I am not at all averse to discussing Suchomel, Pfannenstiel or Gerstein.
For the sake of clarity, and to cause less confusion, I prefer to deal with each case
separately. Right now, I prefer to deal with this case.
The truth or not the truth-THAT is the question-the truth and ALL the truth-
that is the answer.
rb
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:47 PDT 1996
Article: 71145 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:01:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 164
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References: <[email protected]>
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Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:.
>
> Gah, horseshit. this is very disappointing.
Yes, I think it was horseshit and disappointing as well.
>
> *You* made the claim that Mueller is unreliable, so
> *YOU* support it.
One step at a time..You need to understand that I answer dozens of posts daily.
I cannot address each one to everyone’s satisfaction….
>
> I’ll be sure to remind you.
Good. I thought that you might. In fact, I encourage you to.
>
>
> Sigh. This is absurd.
Sigh. The same old prevarications.
>
> Yes, some of the testimony appears ludicrous,
. Showing that one or a few eyewitnesses did not
> tell the truth does not mean that all them lied (or even that most
> of them lied.)
I am not saying a “few”, I am saying THOUSANDS.
There are many more coming. If you can’t believe the messengers, how can
you believe the messages?
>
> For that matter, despite the fact that some of the accounts
> seem incredible (throwing babies in the air so they can be shot,
> for instance) that does not mean that they _aren’t true_.
Ha Ha. Ho Ho.There could be a Santa Claus as well….”Do it again, Daddy!
Do it again!”
>
> What’s needed is some level of investigation to see if they’re true.
Right. Are ready to undertake this noble task. Try with the
accusations about the gas chambers first.If you dare to question
their existence, watch what happens to you…..
>
> By your line of reasoning, i should disbelieve everything you say because
> other revisionists have been repeatedly exposed as liars.
So have “Holohuggers”. I am an individual and do not align myself with any
partisan group.
>
> These death books did _not_ contain the names or registration of people
> gassed upon arrival.
Well, then it is up to prove to us that these non-existent people existed and were gassed.
Who places the death tolls lower?
Auschwitz State Museum, Reitlinger, Pressac……
> > > >
Yet you seem content to cite their death tolls… interesting.
No. I do not agree with their tolls. I believe the number is significantly
lower. Pressac does not seem to have made up his mind yet either.
the guards there were ordered not to take photos or
> discuss what went on
This is routine in any penal institution.
Everything was in secret yet Holohuggers claim to know everything about it. Now, THAT is
interesting.
>
>
> All i have is your unsupported ‘reasonable suspicions,’ mr. blackmore.
Could be, but that is how many great mysteries become unraveled.
>
> > > We have documentary evidence, like Himmler’s Posen speech,
> >
> > Controversial and not proven. In any event, it mentions nothing about gas chambers.
> > Also, no figures were given.
>
> So? Why should it mention both gas chambers and the numbers killed?
You are the one who referred to it to support your contentions, didn’t you?
>
> Himmler explicitly states that the extermination of Jews is Nazi
> policy. period.
Debateable.
>
> Recordings of this speech exist, as do his handwritten notes.
The handwritten notes and the recordings differ.
>
>
> > > letters between Nazis,
> >
> > What letters? Which Nazis? How were these letters found? When? Where? By whom?
>
> Franke-Gricksh to Himmler, Kammler, Gobbel’s diary, the Einsatzgruppen
> reports, and the like.
OK. Where do any of these mention gas chambers?
Kremer wrote at length about ‘sonderaktions’ and removing
> organs from recently murdered inmates. hardly ‘dualistic.’
He does not mention gas chambers. Removing organs from deceased
patients is a usual procedure during an autopsy.
>
> orders and technical
> > > descriptions of the gassing machinery,
> >
> > Produce them please.
>
> i will, in the next post.
OK. Good.
>
> > > orders for Zyklon-B
> > > calling it ‘material for resettlement,
> >
> > This is not convincing. Zyklon B was routinely ordered. In fact, if they had more
> > of it, perhaps the epidemics would not have taken such a large toll of human lives.
> > Resettlement does not mean “murder”.
>
> Why label a lethal reagent as ‘material for resettlement?’
The Jewish people were, after all, being resettled. You choose to attach a sinister
connotation to this. Also, the Zyklon was for disinfestation-which would ultimately
SAVE lives. You choose the dualistic interpretation.
>
>
> > > and the like
> > >
> > > We have eyewitness testimony both from former prisoners
> > > and camp personell,
> Please post it so we may see how consistent it is.
>
> There’s megabytes of it. you sure you want it all?
I would love it.
>
.
> >
> > Read the book.
>
> No. I haven’t the time to go sifting through all of Hoess’s memoirs looking
> for a snippet that supports your thesis. If you have the evidence, you
> provide it.
Then why do you think of yourself as a serious researcher? Or do you?
Note: At first I thought I was addressing Mike Curtis, but later realized that I wasn’t-
Mr. Harmon still behaves like a gentleman.
>
> —
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:48 PDT 1996
Article: 71148 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:35:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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>
> I don’t think anyone is “complaining.” I think they are pointing out
> your silly attempts at denial. BTW, no one here is against true
> historical revisionism.
That is the biggest and best laugh I have had all year!
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:48 PDT 1996
Article: 71149 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:36:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 04:51:28 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> :>>>>>
> :>> :>You may have missed a few.
> :>>
> :>> Indeed. And we know what they are, don’t we Mr. Blackmore?
>
> :>Who is “we”, Mr. McFee or is it Mr. ?
>
> Still afraid to use your real name?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
I have my reasons, but one of them is not fear.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:49 PDT 1996
Article: 71150 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:38:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]du>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> Kimberley Ahlf <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
> On 2 Oct 1996, Gord McFee wrote:
>
> > In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> > 04:51:28 GMT writes:
> > :>
> > :>> :>>>>>
> > :>> :>You may have missed a few.
> > :>>
> > :>> Indeed. And we know what they are, don’t we Mr. Blackmore?
> >
> > :>Who is “we”, Mr. McFee or is it Mr. ?
>
>
> Having had dealings with Mr. McFee outside of the internet, I can to a
> certain degree vouch for his identity.
>
> Having been a spectator to Mr. McFee’s debate for some time now on
> usenet, I can also say with confidence that if you have been reduced to
> questioning his identity then it is perhaps time you reviewed the
> health of your more substantive arguments.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Well, this information came from someone else. For the record, I don’t believe it.
And by the way, I am not in the least bit worried about the substance or quality
of my arguments. Haven’t heard anything from you in a while though.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:50 PDT 1996
Article: 71151 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes faked?
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:07:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> Michael P. Stein ([email protected]) wrote:
> : In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
> : >Ok, Bill: Here are the sources which you said I could or would not
> : ever come up with- : >
>
> Based only on your previous response.
>
> : >1. A Primary Source-You will find a photostatic copy of one of Ilya
> : >Ehrenburg’s hate tracts fully reproduced in the book: Ehren Buch des
> : >Deutschen Soldaten, FZ Verlag, Munich, Germany, 1985. You can’t get more
> : >unequivocal than that.
>
> If that’s valid, then thank you.
>
>
> : I think there have been multiple misunderstandings here. There was
> : one _specific_ quote which the New Republic article called a forgery – the
> : one which supposedly exhorted Soviet soldiers to rape their (i.e., the
> : Germans’) women. The question was not (or should not have been) whether
> : Ehrenburg wrote anti-German propaganda _at all_.
>
> Yeah, I read the article. Personally, I have no doubt the Ehrenburg
> wrote anti-German propaganda, and that some of it was loathsome; I
> was just yanking Mr. Belling’s chain a little. I still have no idea
> how he thinks Ehrenburg’s propaganda justifies Streicher’s.
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
Reread Ehrenburg’s incitements, which cost more innocent people their lives
than Streicher’s drivel ever did. Your chain pulling was not without positive
effect. It induced me to locate a primary source. I have always said that I never
bluff.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:51 PDT 1996
Article: 71152 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:25:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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>
> Ahh, Herr Belling? And I thought it was you that deplored the tone of this
> conference? Now you are wallowing in the slop with the rest of the
> revisionists?
Apparently I am learning from your Nizkor cronies.
>
> Herr Belling, I have started to note how many times you refuse to answer a
> question – saying you don’t have time to get to it now – or that you’ll get
> to it later – or that you simply sidestep.
No sidestep. I DO have a life aside from alt.revisionism. If I say I will get to
something in the future, then I will. I am not like your Nizkor buddies.
>
> The one who has proven to be pathetic here is you. You had such a promising
> start but now ….
>
> I think your ego has gotten the best of you. Given the quality of your
> scholarship I don’t think that anything you are working on at the moment
> will come close to changing world opinion on the holocaust. It may get you
> honororable mention as a star fruitcake up there with Butz and Irving
> however!
I am beginning to think of this as a honor.
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 71154 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 04:02:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>
> > > And where is this “special filtering apparatus” mentioned?
>
> > Need it have been mentioned? Use your God-given common sense
> > Sometimes there is more than meets the eye……
>
> Yes, if you want us to believe it is not a fabrication. That is called
> proof.
>
> I suggest you use your common sense. A man on trial for his life claims
> that he thought the water was polluted and could not be used. The evidence
> says otherwise. The witness states that he used the material in the camp to
> get the water running and that there was no reason thatKramer could not
> have done so. The evidence fails on simple cross-examination. Why did
> Kramer’s counsel fail to demolish this testimony either with cross-examination or
> testimony — which could have come from Kramer — in his case.
>
> The common sense answer is simple. he “special filtration” is a
> fabrication.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Special filtration or no special filtration, the water was not brought up
for 4 to 5 days from the river, after they had scrounged through the camp
for materials. Perhaps the defense counsel could have pursued the questioning
a bit more in depth.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 71155 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Def Comedy Jam – Part 3
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:13:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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>
>>>>
I can’t answer for Weber, but the soap story is all washed out.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:53 PDT 1996
Article: 71156 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Def Comedy Jam – Part 4
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:11:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes
>
>>>>
There are the camps themselves, including
> the destroyed gas chambers. No denier has yet come up with a credible
> and logically consistent explanation of why these structures were
> destroyed when the rest of the camp was left intact.
The usual way is to say that they destroyed anything of military
> value, glossing over the fact that the early gas chamber in Krema I,
> which had been converted into a bomb shelter when the larger and more
> efficient gas chambers were built, was left standing.
>
>
I find it curious that Krema one was not blown up with the rest of the structures.
Was this facility also not alleged to have been used as a gassing bunker?
I think the common denominator in the destruction of the Kremas may have
been the large number of cremation ovens, rather than “gas chambers”. Also,
if it was the intention of the Nazis to get rid of the evidence, they did not do a
very good job of it, for the roof over Krema II had simply collapsed. The walls
below were all intact. From what I have read, the Soviets actually completed the
demoltion by carrying off most of the materials.
BYW, I have no argument with you about Porter. Aside from what you posted, I
have not read anything he has written. Also, I have not seen all of Spielberg’s
Film yet, so I cannot comment. As to the following:
Porter:
>
> TRUE: Many Jews are Marxists who forged thousands of German
> documents, fabricating German stamps by the hundreds (182, 251, 285,
> 458, 459, 460, 474).
>
> The distortion: they did this for passes, authorizations, etc. to
> escape and to stay alive. But where is it said in the book that they
> did this to manufacture false evidence, including signed (not stamped)
> letters in perfect German?
>
> I think they probably did it for both reasons, but I do not think this was an exclusive
Jewish practice.
Are we having fun yet?
We, might, if Zippy were to be invited……As a self-acknowledged pin-head, he might
feel right at home on alt.revisionism.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 71158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:33:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:05:26 -0800, [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> > [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> > Like your ‘opinion’ that the Discovery channel is knowingly misleading the
> >> > public by promoting a false figure of the number killed at Auschwitz ?
> >>
> >> Another distortion. What I said was it was IRRESPONSIBLE, whether knowingly
> >> or unwittingly.
> >
> >Really? Did you not write, Herr Schwarzesel, that “…the program
> >directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately misleading the
> >public.” Did you not also write, Herr Schwarzesel, “Do you admit then,
> >that the program directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately
> >misleading the public?” [1]
> >
> >Well, Herr Schwarzesel, did you? Of _course_ you did.
>
>
> Mark. You caught Herr Belling in a lie? How very unsurprising!
>
>
>>>>
I don’t need you to answer for me, Kennie. I did indeed write that.
What of it? If they do air the program and they give a false number
of 4.5 million dead at Auschwitz, someone soemwhere is deliberately
misleading the public. You do it all the time. I couldn’t tell even a
million lies to equal the lie you propound daily on this USENET
site..
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 71159 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Troll-Belling/Blackmore still avoids the question… Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:29:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
> >
> > Another distortion. What I said was it was IRRESPONSIBLE, whether knowingly
> > or unwittingly. And that is STILL my answer. What’s the matter? Didn’t they
> > reply to your enquiry?
>
> Actually, I got the same reply that Mr. Van Alstine did. I don’t think
> you’d be stupid enought to fabricate an entire program, however, so I sent
> them the request again. But I am still unsure as to how it will PROVE your
> claim that the Discovery Channel is knowingly misleading the public.
Watch the program and listen to what the moderator claims, then get back to me.
Any conversation in between is worthless.
>
> First, it was not a distortion. You did make the claim:
>
>
>
> This is not a retraction of a clearly false statement made by you
It is not a false statement, but it could have been worded a bit differently, which
is why I sent you the additional statement to clarify. THAT statement is valid and
I have no reason to change it.
, you should either
> admit your error and retract the statement, or admit that you are a liar.
>
Well, I am not a liar, regardless of your worthless opinion, and I have clarified the
statement. By the way, I don’t hear any more of your chirping about me “posing”
as Duncan Coons or some other nonsense, as evidently this was all explained to you.
Neither did I see you admit YOUR error in attributing something to me falsely. I would
say we are EVEN.
>
> >> What is your basis for the opinion regarding the Simon Wiesenthal Center ?
>
> > The truth. Something you know little of.
>
> Let’s review again, shall we ?
No need to review. the answer is the same. it is what I believe.
You need to get a life Gandhi. Don’t you have a girlfriend or anything?
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:55 PDT 1996
Article: 71160 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:28:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd79-002.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > Right. the big-time lawyer says that we don’t need to prove crimes alleged
> > against Germans. Where was their “dream team”?
You lost this argument ages ago.
Yale E:
You are now trying to tell us those convictions were is error. That,
> sonny boy, requires a little more than “reasonable suspicions.” It requires facts
> and evidence. You have presented none.
>
SOME of the convictions were indeed in error, as is proven by the fact that so many
of the “convicted” were released dhortly after their sentences were pronounced or
received pardons. Kramer is one of the people who was made to stand in lieu of his
superiors. I have presented more evidence in support of this fact than is necessary.
I leave the judgment up to the browsers, not to you. You are one of the aggrieved
parties.
Y.E.:
You have whines.
(What kind? Mogen David?)
>
> You have speculated.
>
> You have postured.
>
> You have lied.
Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? I don’t see anybody else here
but you…..
Sorry that I can’t take you seriously, sonny boy. In the marketplace of
> ideas you are a loser.
In the marketplace of truth, you are an arsonist.
>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:56 PDT 1996
Article: 71162 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:32:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd79-002.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
>
> > > Where did the British get the water?
>
> > read the test. I even quoted it for you.
>
> According to the testimony they obtained it from the river using the
> camp equipment.
>
> According to the testimony it was potable.
>
> According to the testimony they needed no special filters.
>
> According to the testimony the camp equipment worked fine.
>
>
>
>
> –YFE
I am glad that you finally agree that the failure to provide water was
> Kramer’s fault.
>
You ARE delusional!
Now let’s go on to the next point. Kramer denied food to the inmates.
> Food was available. You are well aware of what he did and what he didn’t do.
> Why did he deprive those starving people of food?
Because he was saving it all for you, baby.
DANISH PROVERB: Lawyers and painters can soon change white to black.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:57 PDT 1996
Article: 71163 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:40:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]du>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd79-002.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
>
>
> Alas, one does not need much formal training in medicine to see that this
> poor man’s arguments are in the twilight throes.
>
> >
> > —
> > Gord McFee
> > I’ll write no line before its time
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>>>>
Keep dreaming. I have just begun to fight.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:57 PDT 1996
Article: 71165 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 05:05:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd34-133.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
>
>
> Your handwaving away important data. Whatever life you have or don’t
> have concerns me not, btw.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Such a gentleman, such a scholar.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 71169 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]uno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 3 Oct 1996 06:07:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad13-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> >>
> > You’ll do much better with original documents,
> >> eye-witness accounts and physical evidence than rehashings and
> >> opinions. >>>>
> >
> >That’s what I keep telling you….now, where is it? Why don’t we address eye-witness
> >accounts-oh, I already have in Soviet Def Comedy Jam which no one would touch with
> >a ten foot pole. Better luck next time. I think I will start dealling with your eyewitness
> >testimonies in depth soon. you may end up regretting your suggestion….
> >
>
> Who the hell are you replying to?
>
>
>
>
>>>>
What the hell are you asking?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:35:59 PDT 1996
Article: 71170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Priests murdered in Dachau
Date: 3 Oct 1996 06:06:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad13-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
Can we now discuss the priests and nuns murdered in the Soviet Union
and in Spain during the civil war?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:00 PDT 1996
Article: 71174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Def Comedy Jam – Part 2
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:17:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>
(snip)
>
> <end quote>
r.
>
>>>>
This posting of yours interests me, so I will research it further. I happen to have other
affadavits and statements by Morgen somewhere. I hope to get to this asap.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:00 PDT 1996
Article: 71179 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:47:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> :>> On 30 Sep 1996 02:09:25 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> :>>
> :>>
> :>> #This is avoiding the issue. The rivers of Europe are and have been highly
> :>> #polluted for decades now. If the British did not make the water potable,
> :>> #perhaps many prisoners died as a result of drinking this water. Please
> :>> #provide the proof that the British did not use filtering equipment.
> :>>
> :>> Giwers rules: He who asserts must prove.
> :>>
> :>> The two of you have made the assertion. YOU prove it.
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>>>>
> :>Try reading an encyclopedia.
>
> No, no, no Mr. Blackmore. That’s not right. Five point penalty and, if you
> don’t start behaving, you’ll get a detention. A silly statement like “try
> reading an encyclopedia” when asked to support your groundless allegations
> does not meet the standard that _YOU_ claimed to adhere to, just a week ago.
> Now, behave yourself, or you’ll have to play elsewhere.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Why should I, when I can pick on kids twice my size and 10 times dumber?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:01 PDT 1996
Article: 71181 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Re Hoess & rbl lies
Date: 3 Oct 1996 06:09:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad13-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 29 Sep 1996 18:31:02 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> I am working on a comedy skit on the beliefs of revisionists right now. The
> Zundle-UFO bit usually has the audience in hysterics. I am working on a bit
> about you right now. It is not as funny as the Zundle skit but you keep
> posting (and giving me more material) and it is starting to come together.
> It is beginning to get a few laughs in the test audiences.
Great. It can’t be any funnier than your posts, though.
>
> Audiences also get a kick at the bit I do about the fight in the IHR offices
> and I am told my Butz piece is as funny as the Zundle one.
Perhaps it is. Keep up the good work, Jerry. er. I mean, Ken.
>
> Keep up the good work, Herr Belling. I am looking forward to presenting it
> on The Tonight Show. Maybe I’ll showcase you.
Watch out Leno.
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:02 PDT 1996
Article: 71182 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:43:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > > > Where did they get the water?
>
> > > > This question has been answered in a recent reply to B. Harmon. Follow
> > > > the yellow brick road….
>
> > > The answer is nothing more than your speculation.
>
> > No it isn’t. It is in the testimony.
>
> Excuse me, sonny boy, but that is what everybody else has been saying.
> *You* (and our resident criminal) have been the ones maintaining it came from
> somewhere else.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
You have the quotes which I gave you. the water came from the field units of
the british army. You are supposed to be a lawyer. You know what they say
about lawyers: “It is the trade of lawyers to question everything, yield nothing,
and to talk by the hour.”
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:03 PDT 1996
Article: 71183 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:37:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
>
> Now, please re-think your statement “supporters” of the Holocaust. No one
> _supports_ the Holocaust. Decent people abhor it. Do you?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
What is your definition of the Holocaust and I will tell you.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:03 PDT 1996
Article: 71186 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 3 Oct 1996 08:21:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> In other words, you are just fabricating things. Thank you for admitting it.
. I said when I get around to it.
Some people work, you know.
> :>> :>> , why don’t you
> :>> :>> provide some specific examples and citations?
> :>> :>
> :>> :>Don’t have the time right now. Sorry. I’ll try to get to it later.
> :>>
> :>> In other words, you’re all hot air.
> :>
> :>In other words, i don’t have the time right now. You’re not paying me.
>
> In other words, you are all hot air. You allege–you back it up.
In other words-when I get the time.
Those are
> the rules of debate. If you can’t obey them, you’ll have to play somewhere
> else.
Oh, I don’t play…..I do have a life and other committments besides here. I also
answer about 30 posts daily. i simply don’t have the time to reply to a request
immediately.
>
> :>> It’s the kind of thing that criminals have done since time immemorial–cover
> :>> their tracks. Like your other hero Kremar.
He is not a hero of mine, and it is unfair of you to say this but he
did not deserve what he got. If you think it is odd
that I have directed people toward questioning some of the sentences at Nuremberg,
think again. I am merely drawing people’s attention to obvious incongruities. The fact is
ALL people are capable of committing atrocious acts against their fellow man. It is unjust to
be forever lambasting the German people over events which happened years ago and for which
one can find parallells even today. If people and agencies persist in doing this, then I feel that
someone has to place things in their perspective. Not all of the Nazis were evil. In fact, the
Soviets were worse. Why keep dwelling on this subject? One would think that the Jews
were the only race of humanity to ever undergo persecution? it wasn’t right, but if you insist
on exploiting the bad memories of the past and rehashing old and new propaganda stories,
then the other side deserves to be heard.
> :>
> :>Is that why you have the Nazis constructing a lethal “gas chamber” at Dachau
> :>at the end of 1944?
>> I am not the problem here. You are.
No, the problem is in inconsistent statements and actions like the above.
I support my statements. You simply
> blow hot air.
Really? I support my statements as well. All things in good time. This “Jack” doesn’t
jump over the candlestick at your behest. I would not mind taking a little extra time
to post things if you would conduct yourself like a gentleman.
>
> You see things that don’t exist. I am not connected to Nizkor, except to have
> helped out with a couple of translations, and I am nobody’s boy.
I wasn’t aware of the fact that you spoke German until tonight. Now, I wish
that someone would help them learn how to properly trace a document and
determine it’s authenticity.
>
> I _do_ post under my own name. I am not ashamed to stand up for my beliefs?
> Why are you too craven to stand up for yours?
I am not. I have other reasons.
>
>
Rigorous standards of proof? You never post any proof at all–just> allegations.
It sounds as if you are talking about Nizkor.
At least I do not insist that my assumptions based upon logic and reason are incontro-
vertible fact, like people at Nizkor do. Sometimes all we have to go on is our God-given
common sense. Aside from that, people like you or I should certainly be allowed the
perogative to agree or disagree in a civilized manner, but that is usually not the case.
>
Of course, the classic denier tactic.
I know of no denier tactic. I am stating something in good faith, but you refuse to
accept it. I feel the gravity of these charges should be proven beyond a reasonable
doubt according to standards current in any major criminal homicide case prosecuted
in America.
> :>
>
>
> Not invective, sir, a simple statement of fact. Annoys you to hear the truth,
> doesn’t it?
That is what I always say. The truth is not annoying to me, but people putting words in
my mouth or assigning motives to me which aren’t there, is annoying. You seem to be an
honorable fellow, and I really do not want to see a deterioration in the quality of our discussions-
as has happened with some of the Nizkor bullies.
>
>
>
> —
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:04 PDT 1996
Article: 71188 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:38:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> :>> 03:25:15 GMT writes:
> :>> :>
> :>> :>And I will say it again: Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
> :>>
> :>> You may say it until the cows come home, Mr. Blackmore, that will not make it
> :>> true.
>
> :>No, but the facts do make it true. Pity that you refuse to admit it.
>
> You have posted no facts that make anything true–just your assertions. You
> can wish that just saying something made it true, but real life is not like
> that. Of course, deniers do have problems with real life.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
What is your definition of a denier? is that in opposition to a “believer”?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:05 PDT 1996
Article: 71189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:39:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > >
> > > WHAT FACTS? You have presented no “facts” whatsoever.
>
> > Are you suffering from delusional thinking?
>
> No. I am dealing with the historical record. You have presented
> speculations, strange arguments, and denials of the testimony of those who were
> there. You wouldn’t even be allowed to present your arguments to a jury. And, if
> you did they would laugh at you.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Right. You speak for the world. Aside from that, what I did was to present nothing
BUT facts from the trial record itself. You are delusional. Thank God it’s not con-
tagious.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:06 PDT 1996
Article: 71190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:40:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> :>> [email protected] writes:
> :>>
> :>> # Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was
> :>> # polluted.
> :>>
> :>> Not a good enough excuse. Think of something better.
> :>
> :>What is better than the truth? You and I have different standards.
>
> You and Dr. Keren do indeed have different standards. Unfortunately, yours
> appear to be less connected to the truth than his. You say that Kramer
> thought the water was polluted, then refuse to post the citation for that when
> challenged.
>
> :>> # Mr. Giwer also makes a good point when he adds that the
> :>> # British had to have provided some special filtering
> :>> # apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.
> :>>
> :>> And where is this “special filtering apparatus” mentioned?
> :>
> :>Need it have been mentioned? Use your God-given common sense
> :>Sometimes there is more than meets the eye……
>
> Yes, it needs to have been mentioned because, like most of Giwer’s rubbish, it
> is patently untrue. You allege–you prove.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
The same may be said of the gas chambers. For the record, however, you
may find all in the “Belsen Trial”.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:07 PDT 1996
Article: 71198 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:17:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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Probably the one question most frequently asked by people who
express an interest in Revisionism is: “Do you have any proof that
Germans were tortured in order to extract confessions?”
It must be clearly understood that the entire Holocaust-gassing myths
stands and falls with the “confession” of Rudolf Hoess, one-time
commandant of Auschwitz – an Allied prisoner who was sadistically
tortured. The bulk of this rebuttal offered below will address itself to
the nature of the Nuremberg Trials in general, and Hoess’s “confession”
in particular, since these trials were the bench mark on which the entire
extortion “reparations” scheme was constructed, and in which Hoess
was a key figure.
However, it behooves the reader to understand that torture – either
to obtain confessions or simply for sadistic purpose – was a fact of life
in post-war Germany. It went on for many years.
A number of able historians have done an admirable job in exposing
the facts relating to the shocking use of torture by the Allies. Admittedly,
documentation is often difficult to obtain, due to the fact that the Allied
“interrogators” generally covered their tracks well, yet the persistence
of historians and researchers interested in the truth has begun to pay off.
If I were to point to one particular event which signaled the allies policy
in regard to treatment of the vanquished, I would designate the meeting
of the so-called “Big Three” at Teheran in 1943. It was a telling episod
forecasting what was yet to come and illustrating the cavalier attitude
against a soon-to-be-vanquished foe.
As described by both Churchill and Elliott Roosevelt in their memoirs,
“Stalin rose and proposed a blood-curdling toast. The strength of the
German army depended, he said, upon fifty thousand high officers and
technicians. His toast was a salute to shooting them, “. . . as fast as we
can, all of them.”
Quick as a flash, Churchill sprang to his feet – his face and neck were
red, says Elliott Roosevelt, who was present – and announced, quite
hypocritically, as it turned out, that British conceptions of law and justice
would never tolerate such butchery.
Into this breach stepped President Roosevelt. He had a compromise to suggest.
Instead of executing fifty thousand, perhaps “. . . we should settle on a
smaller number. Shall we say, 49,500?”
Here is another telling vignette, as recounted by American author
Marguerite Higgins visited Germany following the war and later wrote
of her experiences in “News Is a Singular Thing”.
Higgins described a visit to a GI “Interrogation Center”:
“The GI led us to the main door of the camp . . . Behind the bars of the cell
we saw 3 uniformed Germans. Two of them, beaten and covered with blood,
were lying unconscious on the floor. A third German was lifted up by the hair
on his head, and I shall never forget, he had red hair like a carrot. A GI turned
his body over and struck him in the face. When the victim groaned, the GI
roared, “Shut your mouth, damned Kraut!”. . . . It turned out that for almost
a quarter of an hour, the doubled rows of 20 to 30 GI’s stood aligned taking
turns methodically beating the six captured Germans. . . It came out later that
the worked-up GI’s had captured six young German boys, who had never even
been members of the SS. The youngsters had only recently been inducted into
a government work battalion. The boy with the red hair was 14 years old. The
other 5 German boys in the cell blocks were between 14 and 17 years old.”
The book “Vorsicht! Faelschung!” reproduces a photograph of 2 German
youngsters taken after their “interrogation” by Allied investigators. The photo
speaks for itself. The faces of the two youngsters are bruised, swollen, and bloody.
These beatings were endemic. These were not isolated occurrences. And if this was
the treatment meted out to the innocent – to youngsters in particular – it is only logical
to assume that “Nazis” accused of “heinous crimes” were treated far, far worse.
The episodes recounted below are only a small fraction among thousands and
thousands of documented cases. The SS were particularly targeted.
Long before the Nuremberg Trials even began, the Allies looked upon the
SS as a criminal organization. There was ample reason for that, for the SS
happened to be the most determined adversaries of the Allied forces, and
offered the most resistance. Allied casualties were generally much higher
whenever they were thrown into combat opposite seasoned SS troops. The
SS were both feared and admired for their military prowess. Consequently,
the members of the SS received the most brutal treatment at the hands of the
allied forces. The Allies sought to expunge the very memory of this elite Nazi
formation.
Yet the truth of the matter is that the Waffen SS was no more criminal than
any other fighting unit, Allied OR axis. The treatment its members received
at the hands of the Allies was unjust and often criminal. Particularly since SS
members were often stationed at concentration camps as guards, the Allies
took advantage of this fact and used it to condemn the members of the SS
as a whole. Yet it should go without saying that simply because someone was
a guard at a camp does not mean he or she was a criminal.
What follows is a series of reports concerning the treatment Waffen SS soldiers
received at the hands of the Allies. All documentation is taken from the
book “Alliierte Kriegsverbrechen und Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit.”
April 1945
•Paderborn. An SS officer is ordered by his interrogators to take off his
shirt and undershirt. He is then beaten about the face and back with
a whip. An MP extinguishes his lit cigarette on the man’s back. He is then
ordered to stand with his face against a wall, while his interrogators press
the muzzle of a gun against his neck. A chain is placed around his wrist
and twisted until the man collapses from the pain.
•Bavaria. A Police General is taken prisoner and led to a cell, where an American
soldier holds a pistol to his head and then urinates all over his body.
•At a special camp run by the Americans for captured SS and Nazi Party
members, a sadistic American Sergeant, Paul Doyle, brutally torments the
men in his charge. Daily he beats men into unconsciousness, often breaking
their ribs. The men are beaten so frequently and so badly that they have to
be hospitalized. One night he enters a cell and beats a man for an exceptionally
long period of time. When the victim becomes unconscious, water is thrown
into his face to revive him. He is then beaten again. Finally, he is dragged from
his cell unconscious. The man is later hospitalized for severe injuries, interna
l and external. Another SS officer is so badly beaten by Doyle that he later dies
of his injuries. Another victim has his head pushed under water for long periods
of time and his buttocks so severely whipped that the skin is torn and hanging.
•An SS man is beaten repeatedly on the soles of his naked feet.
•Two SS men are forced to smear each other’s face with human vomit.
•Two SS men are shot to death after they surrender their arms to Americans.
•A deputy Ortsgruppenleiter is beaten bloody by Americans with rubber
truncheons and fists about the head. He is then compelled to eat lit cigarettes.
In a garden the form of a grave is measured out, then the man is bound hand
and foot and is left lying on the floor all night long in a room lit by candle light.
The next day the man is ordered to dig a grave and then stand in it, while an
American soldier has his picture taken defecating and urinating in the pit.
•Two SS men are spat at by an American Sergeant and then kicked in the
genitalia until they collapse.
May 1945
•An SS member is burned repeatedly with cigarette butts all over his body.
•An SS man is chained by his legs and hung up over a latrine with his head in the toilet.
•Altenburg. SS members are forced to completely disrobe. Americans then whip
them so badly that they lose consciousness. In that condition they are left lying on the floor.
•Herford. A severely wounded SS officer is compelled by the Americans to carry
heavy rolls of barbed wire on his naked shoulders, running at double time. The
man soon collapses when the skin from his back is ripped from his body.
June 1945
•A group of SS leaders are laden down with heavy stones and then commanded
to exercise barefoot over broken stones and gravel, until they collapse and have
to be carried away.
•Two amputees are bound together with cords and forced to remain standing
without any nourishment for 48 hours. Whereupon the “interrogator” Sergeant
Wertheim quips: “Now you have two legs.”
•Cage 22: Prisoners are forced to clean the latrines night after night – with their
bare hands.
•Cage 23: The American camp Sergeant whiles away the hours by sticking
needles into the stomachs of helpless prisoners. Note: The above occurred
in camps in France.
July 1945
•Stuttgart. A man was dragged out of his bed in the middle of the
night by American soldiers because he was accused of being a
member of the Allgemeine SS. He was dragged into the street and
cudgeled. One half hour later, he was again dragged out of his bed
by 2 Americans and driven to an open field and ordered to get out.
The man refused, fearing he would be shot in the back. Consequently
he was beaten with rifle butts and fists until he was unconscious. Water
was thrown on his face and he regained consciousness, whereby he
was again beaten unconscious for a second time. As a result of the
attack he suffered broken ribs, gaping head wounds, brain
damage, and loss of teeth.
•In the vicinity of Munich, Waffen SS members were forced to
eat their uniform insignias.
August 1945
•In the POW camp Wolfhagen, a severely wounded SS corporal is
tortured by Americans in order to extract a confession. He is kicked
in the genitals and burned over and over again with lighted cigarettes.
The young man is 20 years old.
•Weiden. POW camp. Two SS men are handcuffed to each other
while interrogators beat them. They are repeatedly struck in the kidneys.
•Special mention should be made of the Ziegenhain camp, where we
have the identities of the American inquisitors. The methods of torture
used were even worse than the above mentioned cases. The chief
interrogators at this camp were Inspector Simon, Watson, and Lieutenant
Goodman. One of their favorite games was to play “Autobahn’, whereby a
victim had the hair of his eyebrows and eyelashes cut or ripped out. Late
r the hair was shoved into the victims mouth or nostrils for long periods of time.
•A machine technician had his head banged into a wall so many
times that blood spurted out of his nostrils.
•A man was brought in for “interrogation’. He was beaten extensively
on the hands, face, neck and ears with a rubber truncheon festooned
with barbed wire. Afterwards he was struck in the face repeatedly with
bare fists. He was forced to stare in blinding lights for hours on end and
threatened with hanging or shooting. He had swastikas painted on his
neck and forehead.
•A victim is forced to swallow a postcard with Hitler’s photo, along
with a burning cigarette.
•A man is led into one of the torture chambers. There he is compelled
to undress and lie in vomit, urine, and filth. He is then compelled to
perform acts so disgusting that they shall not be recited here.
•”Inspector Simon” forces a man to swallow lit cigarettes and then
knocks his teeth out.
So it went, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.
The dungeons of the Spanish Inquisition could hardly have appeared
more sinister than these “centers for interrogation’. It even appears that
the Spanish Inquisition served as a model for the Allied Torquemadas.
One curious fact concerning these trials is that most of them were
held by “Americans”, as is evidenced by the following excerpt:
“The British, French, and the Russians withdrew from Nuremberg
after the first and only “International Military Tribunal’ . . . the other
twelve trials which subsequently took place at Nuremberg and only
came to an end in 1948, were all-American shows. The judges and
prosecutors were all American citizens; the trials were held under
the American flag; the proceedings began each morning by the
Marshal of the Court asking God’s blessing on the United States
of America, plaintiff versus the defendants. Nevertheless the tribunals
were supposed to be “international” and to derive their authority from
the Allied Control Council even after the latter ceased to exist.”
Needless to say, not one of the interrogators employed by these
modern day inquisitors was ever charged with a crime or brought
to justice. The dark deeds of their crimes might never have seen
the light of day had it not been for the persistence and courage
of the few who documented their offenses.
How absurd and ignorant it is for Nizkor to claims that confession
were never extracted from the Germans by coercion or torture!
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:07 PDT 1996
Article: 71199 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:48:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Mark
> Van Alstine) writes:
> :>
> :>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord
> :>McFee) wrote:
> :>
> :>[Herr Schwarzesel’s scumbag Nazi apologia snipped]
> :>
> :>> Please stop such irrelevant claptrap. If you want to say you idolize Kramer,
> :>> please say it and stop with these puerile and infantile games.
> :>
> :>Of _course_ Herr Schwarzesel idolizes Kramer -he’s a scumbag Nazi
> :>apologist after all! He first he tries to white-wash Streicher, then
> :>Go”ring, and now Kremer. Any bets as to when he starts white-washing
> :>Hitler?
>
> Interesting progression and one that I admit I had not noticed. Pretty damned
> hard to whitewash a creature like Streicher, no matter what you think of his
> sentence.
>
> :>And, of course, the only reason Herr Schwarzesel poo-poos Ho”ss is because
> :>Ho”ss _admitted_ that he was responsible for the mass murder of over a
> :>millin people! Kinda hard to white-wash _that_ when the scumbag Nazi who
> :>did it _freely_ admittted he did it….
>
> He must like Eichmann, who made a similar admission, and then tried to hide
> behind “I was only following orders”.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Did you ever read that memorandum that was smuggled out of Eichmann’s cell by his
attorney? How does it feel to be hob-nobbing with the elite scum of the earth?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 08:36:08 PDT 1996
Article: 71200 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 07:50:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd74-204.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>>
> :>
> :>>
> :>> <end quotes>
> :>>
> :>>
> :>> -Danny Keren.
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>
> :>>>>>
> :>Already addressed this. Ehlert was a liar who extorted what little possessions
> :>some of the internees had managed to sneak in with them. She was out to
> :>save her own hide.
>
> Nice little trick of censoring Dr. Keren’s post.
>
> The fact that _you_ say that Ehlert was a liar is nothing more than blabber.
> Please post the independent forensic evidence that _proves_ she was a liar.
> Two unrelated lie detector results will suffice.
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
I’ll have to stand in line nehind you and your little imp, Mark van Alstine.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:40 PDT 1996
Article: 71203 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Auschwitz evidence?
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:53:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
> >
> > # Considering how the Soviets had set up a Extraordinary Commission
> > # for the study of war crimes from day one of entering the camps, why
> > # did the Soviets not take photos of the alleged Cremas, even in their
> > # razed state?
> >
> > Of course they did. See Pressac’s book.
> >
> > # and why didn’t the Soviets take any photographs
> >
> > They did.
>
> Apparently l’il tommy is unaware of the evidence presented at the
> Nuremberg trial. They not only took photographs but made movies as well.
>
>
> > Poor, poor old Tommy.
>
> If you add “ignorant” you have hit the nail on the head.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
I thought you people were uncomfortable referring to Nuremberg?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:41 PDT 1996
Article: 71206 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Show Trials’? No, Just Another ‘Revisionist’ Lie
Date: 3 Oct 1996 10:03:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> [email protected] (aka “jbelling”) writes:
> >>
> >> # So pleased to see that you brought the case of Irma Grese up.
> >>
> >> Yes, it’s fascinating. Here we have the Nazi trashies whining
> >> about how the trials of Nazi criminals were “show trials”, in
> >> which the accused were told what to say, and we have an
> >> accused Nazi calling the prosecutor and the survivors “liars”.
> >>
> >> The myth of the “show trials” is going down the toilet,
> >> for sure, together with the rest of the “revisionist” rubbish.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Danny Keren.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Are you talking to yourself here, or just ranting in general? Indeed,
> >many of the survivors and prosecutors were liars, and the purpose of
> >these debates is to expose their lies for all to see. By the time we are
> >through with our expose’, the emperors shall indeed be without any clothes.
>
> Well, Belling/Blackmore/Whomever, we first have to overcome your lies
> and unsubstantiated wonderings around historical events. To prove that
> someone is lying you have to present something that, well, proves they
> were lying. Also to meet your criteria you must also prove that they
> lies intentionally. So the ball is still bouncing in your court.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
A rose is a rose and a lie is a lie.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:42 PDT 1996
Article: 71207 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:56:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> The Chief of the Security Police and the SD
>
> >> Berlin, August 7, 1941
>
> >Your point?
>
> Jews were specially singled out for execution.
>
> Reprisal killings are war crimes.
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Then why did the French announce in 1945: if any Germans were caught committing
acts of resistance against the French occupation army, that 10 Germans would be
shot for every Frenchman killed?
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:42 PDT 1996
Article: 71208 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: 3 Oct 1996 09:57:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 29 Sep 1996 18:12:22 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> #> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> #> The Chief of the Security Police and the SD
> #>
> #> Berlin, August 7, 1941
> #>
> #>
> #>
>
> #Your point?
>
> I am not making one, Herr Belling. I will let the Einsatzgruppen Reports
> make the point for me.
>
>
>>>>
First prove that these are authentic Reports.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:43 PDT 1996
Article: 71214 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 3 Oct 1996 11:07:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > > Wrong. The British brought up the trucks and then found that the water
> > > which Kramer denied the prisoners was potable.
>
> > Wrong. Read the testimony.
>
> I did. The testimony states that they used the pumps and hoses in the
> camp and got the water from the river. They also stated that there was no reason
> why Kramer could not do the same.
>
> Against that testimony we have:
>
> your speculations.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
No. You are obviously referring to a different portion of the testimony,
either deliberately or accidentally. Reread it. The water from the river
was not pumped into the camp until 4 to 5 days later.
“Be frank and explicit with your lawyer….It is his business to confuse the
issue afterwards.”–J.R.Solly.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 3 12:05:44 PDT 1996
Article: 71216 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Is that GAS I smell, or a rotten mackerel?
Date: 3 Oct 1996 10:42:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]no.com
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As I suspected, Anantomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp says nothing about the eventual fate of Kammler. However, there is a reference to
Pruefer, the designers of the crematoriums, as well as Bischoff. Here is what is related:
On May 30, (1945), after a botched investigation, the U.S. Military
Police arrested Pruefer.Ludwig Topf committed suicide on the night
of May 30-31-needlessly, as it turned out, since on June 13, Pruefer was set free, even
managing to come away with AN ORDER FOR A FURNACE FROM THE AMERICANS.
The U.S. investigators, failing to search the company’s home offices, did not “understand”
Topf’s role in setting up the gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>From June 14 to 21, Ernst Wolfgang Topf and Pruefer “apparently” destroyed all the
contracts the firm had signed with the SS at Auschwitz. On July 3, the Soviets occupied.
Erfurt. On October 11, Gustav Braun, Topf’s director of development, was questioned
by the Soviet military about Pruefer and the Topf brothers. On March 4, 1946, the
Soviets arrested Braun (who had become temporary director) Sander, Pruefer, and Schultze.
Erdmann escaped internment because he was REGISTERED IN A COMMUNIST UNION.
Braun was condemned to 25 years in the Gulag but was freed in 1955. The fate of
Pruefer is unknown……..Unlike the Americans, the Soviets immediately “discerned”
Pruefer’s role in the construction of Auschwitz.
Bischoff led a quiet post-war life and died in 1950. Only two members of the Zentral-
bauleitung, Walter Dejaco and Fritz Ertl, went before a tribunal…..The trial of the two
architects of the crematoria in Vienna in January 1972 ended with the RELEASE OF BOTH.
(Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, pg. 240).
Well, now, how interesting. Thanks to Mr. Curtis we now have a few answers. Number one,
neither Curtis nor “Anatomy” can tell us what happened to Kammler.
2. We now see that Topf died a “suicide” while in American hands….how convenient.
I wonder if anyone can tell us a bit about Herr Topf’s arrest, capture, and interrogation?
Also, the names and ranks of his captors and the complete circumstances surrounding
his interrogation and alleged suicide. “Botched”?…I think not.. What a web we weave……
3. We next read that Pruefer was set free (!), as well as receiving a commission to design
a furnace for the allies! How strange!
4. The Americans “failed” to understand Topf’s “role”. I believe they understood his role
quite well, that is why we are left with an alleged “suicide”. They simply wanted him out of
the way. They understood better than most that “loose tongues sink ships”.
5. Next we are told that Wolfgang Topf and Pruefer “apparently” destroyed all contracts
with the SS. Why “apparently”? Perhaps these contracts were destroyed by people with
other interests in mind….
6. Not to overlook the Soviet actions: How curious that Erdmann escaped
internment because he was a member of a communist union. Also, the early
release dates for the other two captives simply proves that the whole arrest
and trial of the other two gentleman was a complete FARCE, and was prompted
by base political motives. Notice that the “evil” Braun was released in 1955!
No one knows what finally happened to Pruefer….apparently the Soviets advised him
to conveniently “get lost”. The Soviets did not just “discern” Pruefer’s role-they
CREATED it. Those Soviet Broadway show trials!
7. The man Bischoff, as we are told, led a QUIET LIFE UNTIL 1950! The infamous
Bischoff, whose alleged communications are relentlessly promoted by Holocaust
enthusiasts, was apparently kept under wraps for specific reasons. No trial, no
imprisonment, nothing-and why? Because these communications amount to NOTHING.
NIL.
8. Dejaco and Ertl were the two victims selected to “take the heat”. Underlings.
How apropos!
9. The trial in Vienna in January 1972 ended in the release and vindication of both.
How interesting…..
My thanks to Mr. Curtis. Mazel tov! By the way, what DID happen to Kammler?
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 07:05:44 PDT 1996
Article: 71569 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Add this one to the “Discovery Channel”
Date: 4 Oct 1996 09:41:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Raj Gandhi often accuses me of being a liar. In an ongoing tirade
he accuses me of falsifying figures aired in a documentary on Josef
Menegele, in which it was asserted that 4.5 million people died at
Auschwitz. The name of the program was “Mengele-the Man and his
Crimes”. Now, we have another source to add to this undistinguished
list:
In the November 1994 issue of “World War II”, a bi-monthly
magazine published in the United States by Cowles History Group,
it was maintained in an article on the “Final Solution” that:
“The death camp tolls included Maidanek’s 750,000, Chelmno’s
1,135,000, and Auschwitz and its sub-camps’ 4,000,000.” (Page 58)
That’s right ladies and gentlemen-you read correctly: 4,000,000!
Let’s see now: 4,000,000 Auschwitz
1,135,000 Chelmno
750,000 Maidanek
_________
5,885,000
However, they forgot to include the estimated death figures for
Treblinka, Sobibor, Mauthausen, Gross Rosen, Dachau, Natzweiler,
Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Oranienburg, Neuengamme,
Belzec, Dora, Stutthof, Flossenburg, Ravensbrueck, Theresienstadt, etc.,
not to forget the Einsatzgruppen……
That should bring the total up to……..10,000,000?….12,000,000?…..
Go ahead-pick a number-any number will do…….
How were they killed?
Gas Vans? Shooting? Lethal Injection? Zyklon B?, Suffocation?,
Eating poisoned cakes?, “Steamed to death”, Stabbed to death
by the Hitler Youth?, Electrocuted to death?, “Pressed to death” by
moveable walls?
Go ahead-pick a method-any method will do….
A deliberate distortion? An accidental distortion? Irresponsible?
Yellow Journalism?
Go ahead-pick one, or pick them all.
Who needs revisionists?
Apparently Mr. Gandhi, as well as the Discovery Channel and the
Publishers of World War II magazine.
Now, I would expect that Mr. Gandhi will now do the right thing and
inform the editor of the above magazine that their figures are HOPELESSLY
WRONG. Mr. Gandhi offered to do just such a thing in a previous commun-
ication with me, when I asked him if he would inform agencies that they were
publishing erroneous information on the Holocaust. Let me make this easy for
him. Here is their address and the person to contact:
Michael E. Haskew, Editor
World War II Magazine
Cowles History Group
Cowles Magazines Inc.,
602 S. King St. Suite 300
Leesburg, Va. 22075
Be sure to get back to us after you set them straight.
From [email protected]juno.com Fri Oct 4 07:05:45 PDT 1996
Article: 71570 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 4 Oct 1996 09:53:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Oct 1996
> 07:37:01 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>>
> :>
> :>>
> :>> Now, please re-think your statement “supporters” of the Holocaust. No one
> :>> _supports_ the Holocaust. Decent people abhor it. Do you?
>
> :>What is your definition of the Holocaust and I will tell you.
>
> You mean there is a choice?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
I simply asked for your definition of the Holocaust? Will you give it?
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 07:05:46 PDT 1996
Article: 71571 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 4 Oct 1996 09:54:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Oct 1996
> 06:49:59 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Bodhisattva) writes:
> :>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> :>>
> :>> > Your argument is a non-sequitor.
> :>> > By the way, NO group of people paraphrase and quote out of context more
> :>> than supporters
> :>> > of the Holocaust.
> :>>
> :>> All this from someone who has never read Spinoza (or anything else that is
> :>> not John Grisham)
> :>>
> :>>>>>
> :>Who is John Grisham? I have read Spinoza, as well as Marx, Nietzsche, Hegel, Kant,
> :>Schopenhauer, Spencer, Darwin, Bertrand Russell, John Stuart Mill, Henry Thoreau,
> :>Voltaire, etc. among others. Now, what is your point?
>
> But have you read John Grisham?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
No.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:03 PDT 1996
Article: 71576 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: John Lennon Joins Revisionists
Date: 4 Oct 1996 10:48:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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Q: John, did you have any song to dedicate to R. Gandhi?
John: Indeed!
“Instant karma’s gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head
You better get yourself together
Think about the things you’ve said
What on earth you tryin to do?
They’re laughing at fools like you
You can start anew, but
It’s up to you, yeh, you
Cuz we all shine on
like the moon, the stars, and the sun
Well, we all shine on
John: I also have one for Mark Curtis:
You can shine your shoes
and wear a suit
you can comb your hair
and look quite cute
you can hide your face
behind a smile
one thing you can’t hide
is when you’re crippled inside
you can wear a mask
and paint your face
you can call yourself
the human race
you can wear a collar and a tie
but one thing you can’t hide
is when you’re crippled inside
well now you know that your cat has nine lives babe
nine lives to itself
but you only got one
and a dog’s life ain’t fun
mamma take a look outside
you can go to church
and sing a hymn
judge me by the colour of my skin
you can live a lie until you die
one thing you can’t hide
is when you’re crippled inside
John: And now for my final number, dedicated to the SWC
and Nizkor
I’m sick and tired of hearing things
>From uptight-short sighted-narrow minded hypocrites
all i want is the truth
just gimme some truth
i’ve had enough of reading things
by neurotic-psychotic
pig headed holohuggers
all i want is some truth
just gimme some truth
no short haired yellow bellied
son of tricky dicky
is gonna mother hubbard
soft soap me
with just a pocketful of hope
begging money for dopes
money for dopes
i’m sick to death of seeing things
>from tight-lipped-
condescending-mommies little chauvinists
all i want is the truth
just gimme some truth
i’ve had enough of watching scenes
of schizophrenic-ego-centric-paranoiac-
prima-donnas
all i want is the truth
just gimme some truth
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:04 PDT 1996
Article: 71577 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 4 Oct 1996 10:59:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Oct 1996
> 07:38:05 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <[email protected]ynet.com> – [email protected] writes:
> :>> :>
> :>> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> :>> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> :>> :>> 03:25:15 GMT writes:
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>And I will say it again: Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> You may say it until the cows come home, Mr. Blackmore, that will not make it
> :>> :>> true.
> :>>
> :>> :>No, but the facts do make it true. Pity that you refuse to admit it.
> :>>
> :>> You have posted no facts that make anything true–just your assertions. You
> :>> can wish that just saying something made it true, but real life is not like
> :>> that. Of course, deniers do have problems with real life.
>
> :>What is your definition of a denier? is that in opposition to a “believer”?
>
> Thank you for admitting you are a denier.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
What do you mean? that I deny you are a believer?
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:05 PDT 1996
Article: 71578 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 4 Oct 1996 11:03:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
The river which
> >> # Kramer thought was polluted.
> >>
> >> And the Nazis also probably thought the food in the stores
> >> nearby was contaminated, so they didn’t give it to the inmates?
Is this what you think?
> >>
> >> And in Auschwitz, the SS probably thought the air was polluted,
> >> so they killed the deportees in order to prevent them from
> >> breathing it?
> >>
> >>No. They were suffocated by moving walls which squeezed them together
like pancakes, and then the floor opened to dump the bodies, as was related
in the Black Book of Polish Jewry. Tell me – are you serious?
rb
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Tell me-are you?
>
> This is nonresponsive and OBVIOUSLY TO ALL does nothing to address
> Danny’s points.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:05 PDT 1996
Article: 71582 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 4 Oct 1996 11:05:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Oct 1996
> 07:47:16 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>>>>>
> :>> :>Try reading an encyclopedia.
> :>>
> :>> No, no, no Mr. Blackmore. That’s not right. Five point penalty and, if you
> :>> don’t start behaving, you’ll get a detention. A silly statement like “try
> :>> reading an encyclopedia” when asked to support your groundless allegations
> :>> does not meet the standard that _YOU_ claimed to adhere to, just a week ago.
> :>> Now, behave yourself, or you’ll have to play elsewhere.
>
> :>Why should I, when I can pick on kids twice my size and 10 times dumber?
>
> Pretty bad, Mr. “Blackmore”, when you are reduced to this kind of blather,
> having failed so miserably to prove your point.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
My blather-your blather-little difference. Let me know when you are ready
to resume a more dignified correspondence.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:06 PDT 1996
Article: 71586 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 4 Oct 1996 10:03:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > Special filtration or no special filtration, the water was not brought up
> > for 4 to 5 days from the river, after they had scrounged through the camp
> > for materials. Perhaps the defense counsel could have pursued the questioning
> > a bit more in depth.
>
> The testimony was the water was restored with hours of their arrival.
>
> Perhaps defense counsel didn’t pursue it becasue he knew that he was
> going to beaten over the head with it.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
You’re guessing…..By the way-water wasn’t “restored”, it was brought in by British
field trucks from their field units.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:07 PDT 1996
Article: 71587 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 4 Oct 1996 09:56:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 3 Oct 1996 07:33:41 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
Kennie wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, that would be Kenny, not Kennie and only then if you were my mother.
>
> And just what is the lie that I ‘propound daily,’ Herr Belling?
>
> (BTW, this is not a USENET ‘site.’ USENET is USENET. It does not reside at
> any particular site.)
>
>
>>>>
You are “living” a lie.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:07 PDT 1996
Article: 71588 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 4 Oct 1996 09:59:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
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> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
>
>
> Oh yes. I forgot. I wasn’r answering for you, Jellybelly. I was replying to
> Mark. His was such a good post catching you dead-to-rights in an outright
> lie and I was merely commenting that I was unsurprised.
>
> Now tell us what this lie is that I propound daily.
>
>
>>>>
Let’s see, first it was “Schwarzmehr”, then “Herr Schwarzesel”, now “Jellybelly”,
as in “Jellyroll Morton”? i think I like that one the best.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 4 17:24:08 PDT 1996
Article: 71590 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 4 Oct 1996 12:10:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > >>>>
I think these issues have been addressed already, so I will try and make
this brief.
Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
do you mean the guards who forced starving
> and sick inmates to carry corpses and shot them if they fell by
> the wayside?
>
I don’t know which guards you are referring to, but if it is to the
guards who escorted the prisoners from one camp to another, then,
no, Kramer was not responsible for their mistreatment. The responsibilty
would lie with the commander of the “escort” battalion. the situation is
similar in the police escorting prisoners who are “shot while escaping” right
here in our own country. It is not the Sheriff who is to blame, but those in charge
of the escort.
You think Kramer _wouldn’t_ have known about this?
No. Why do you think he would?
it wouldn’t occur to Kramer that someone was maltreating the
> prisoners?
It would have been the guards word against the prisoners. There would
have to have been a written report and an investigation, and someone would
have had to report the incident. The camp was huge. Also, we are looking
at the last 2 months of the war when all was in chaos and falling apart. You are
talking hypothetically, anyway.
This issue keeps getting adressed because you deny facts
> squarely in front of you.
No. It keeps getting addressed because you are avoiding all the mitigating
circumstances as well as other facts which disprove your accusations.
You keep talking about how Kramer believed it was polluted,
> but it’s really moot if he didn’t *bother to find out*.
No, he didn’t. What he DID was to arrange for a speedy transfer of the
camp to the British. All the rest is hypothetical, whether he tested water
which he believed was potable or not. he didn’t believe it was, so he didn’t
test it. if anyone had died from drinking it-you would be using that against him
as well. And even if he did, you would simply find something else to gripe about
because your mind is closed to any interpretations but your own.
The only source you provide for this assertion is
> Matt Giwer, who didn’t bother to back his claim either.
Not so. have you been following these posts? What I did was research it
after stating that what Giwer said sounded logical. Who among us would rush
to a river in Europe in order to drink the water? Come on, man, use your common
sense. After researching the testimony, I discovered that the Britis brought water
to the camp in trucks from their FIELD KITCHENS. Water from the river was not
pumped into the camp from the river until 4 to 5 days later. Even then, the water
probably needed some sort of chemical treatment to kill bacteria. From the films
I have seen of the camp after the British took over administration, people are seen using
pumped in water to SHOWER. i did not see any of them actually drinking it.
that the British supplied the camp with water using pumps and
> hoses contained within the camp.
Yes, after scrounging for 5 days. There are still many unanswered questions
concerning all this.
> One can only assume that you are trying concoct some reason
> why Kramer could not supply drinkable water to the inmates,
> even though there was plenty of drinkable water for the
> camp personell.
Good. Let’s address this? There were over 40,000 people in the camp.
How many personnell were there? Do you know? 300? Less? More?
Figure it out….BTW, I do not ever “concoct” anything….don’t accuse me of things..
I simply try to logically approach these issues without prejudice. What I DID succeed
in doing is locating the testimony where it states that the british brought fresh
drinking water in by trucks from their own field kitchens.
3) inmates were starved to death and not given needed medical
> attention.
We have already been through all this. Refer to previous posts..
>
> If sick and starving inmates were being cared for in any
> manner, why were they forced to work?
>
ALL of them were NOT compelled to work. Only the stronger ones, from
what I have read thus far. I don’t know what possible work they could have
been doing during the last few weeks of the war, anyway.
Additionally, one must wonder why these prisoners were
> forced to starve, while the camp personell and civilians
> populace had no shortage of food themselves.
There was not enough food to feed 40,000 prisoners, amny thousands
of whom were seriously ill anyway and could not be given food as treatment.
As to the camp personnell, how many were there? If only the apostles were
there to miraculously conjure up loaves and fishes…..
>
>
>
Where was this food found? Even the allies had to fire guns above the mobs
of inmates to restore order.
Rather than take action to deal with the thousands of
> starving prisoners on his hands, kramer ‘wrote a letter’.
Why do you talk so foolish sometimes?
Other camp personell testified that Kramer did nothing
> to alleviate the situation, as did the camp’s liberators.
Already addressed this. BTW, what else would you expect from the inmates?
Many of them were common criminals as well being liars.
>
Your second-guessing of Kramer is wholly unconvincing.
No second guessing. I go by the evidence.
Such as? A prisoner asking for a drink of water?
Are you asking me? or are you just making it a point of acting silly?
Are you suggesting that the shooting of these prisoners
> was justified?
There were many criminals in this camp. I personally disapprove of violence.
One would need to examine every individual case.
. Which makes it an entirely different thing. There’s
> a world of difference between firing rifles into the air to
> stop a mob versus shooting them for falling down while carrying
> a corpse.
Indeed. What has this to do with Kramer? Do you have a copy of any
order signed by him instructing guards to shoot people because they were
starving, or had stumbled? If true, and there is NO evidence except the
accusations of inmates, then the guilt is with the person who fired the weapon,
not Kramer. You seem to have a problem with chains of command and individual
responsibility for consciously performed acts. BTW, these “humane” British guards
you refer to also assisted in sending perhaps 1,000,000 innocent cossack men,
women, and children, back to the Soviet Union, KNOWING that they would be murdered.
You have a double standard. Everything done by a German is “evil” while the
blessed allies are saints in human guise. this is hypocritical.
I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
> to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
Apparently, this procession, as it was called, was carting the people who had died
>from disease to the pits-did you expect them to leave the carcasses there to rot?
Are you serious?
Bullshit. It went on for five days solid. That’s not sporadic,
> and that’s not ‘on the whims of the guards.’
You are the one dripping in bullshit. The bodies had to be buried.
And yet these seriously ill people were forced to work,
> and not given water.
How many times do you need to be given an answer before you under-
stand the situation? Apparently, you will never comprehend.
>
Were all of the inmates suffering form dysentery, btw?
> >
> > No.
>
> Then why weren’t they given food?
Did you think you “caught” me with this one? Try again. 80% of the
camp had dysentery. Others, enteritis, typhus, tb,……..However, the children
were fed and protected. Funny how you skim by that one.
…and yet they then _switched_ to pumping water from the river.
5 days later, and it is still unclear whether people drank this water untreated.
I doubt it.
How does this exonerate Kramer?
Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
Taking the corpses out of the water tanks would have been a start.
This was done. People were dropping like flies from disease. The British
lost thousands of them even with the best medical treatment available.
> I cannot answer for Mr. Giwer, […]
>
> Yet you did cite him as some authority on how the british supplied the
> camp with water.
>
Because what he said made more sense than what you were saying.
> You said that dysentery patients must not be given food, and i provided the
> quote. That you have now _altered_ what you said is all i wanted to point out.
>
> No. there is no contradiction.
Soup, to name one.
They were getting some soup before the water supply went rancid. Do you understand
that 40,000 seriously ill people had been crammed into this camp in just a few weeks
time and Kramer only had limited numbers of supplies and lodgings available.
Do you understand the significance of this? Just wondering….
he forced them
> > > to haul corpses without food or water. If they fell, they
> > > were beaten, shot, or left to die.
> > >
You arbitrarily assign this to Kramer, but this is unsupportable. Chaos
was reigning in the camp by this time. The “guards” were not even members of the
original staff.
You need to connect Kramer directly.
>
> I have, and the prosecutors at the Belsen trial certainly did.
>
I emphatically disagree. Kramer was a scapegoat, just as his attorney said.
The men who should have been sitting in the dock were Pohl and Hoess.
Care to insult me any further, or are you simply going to declare
> victory and run away now?
So, I prove a point, and then you call it “running away”. I am here. I never
left. I just won’t waste my time with people who have closed their minds to
all reason and common sense. My father taught me to ignore the ignorant.
I always believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt. Seeing that you
refuse to budge an inch on anything, you are indeed bigoted.
When Giwer asserted that the
> british had to use a ‘filtering apparatus’ to supply the camp with water, you
> took what he said as a fact, even though he provided no citation.
>
No, I didn’t. Don’t you have any sense of integrity or fair play? what I said
is there for people with intelligence to read. i said that his explanation made
sense, then researched it further, learned the true facts, and I still insist that
what giwer said makes sense. You are just afflicted with Giweritis.
> Yet when someone questions your notion that Kramer was incapable of supplying the
> camp with water, you insist on all sorts of evidence, citations, and details
well, THAT comment is very revealing. Let’s just ignore all the evidence, citations,
and details…..what are we left with?—-Your prejudiced opinions. Very telling, indeed.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:28 PDT 1996
Article: 70779 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:29:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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