Charles R.L. Power writes:
> [email protected]
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>
[email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
. Evidently you
> want to imply that all Jews who claim losses to the Holocaust are
> liars as well, and that my Jewish friends with their stories are
> somehow trying to pick my pocket.
I do not know what stories your Jewish friends have told you,
but I have heard some stories from a few of my Jewish friends
and/or acquaintances which could only ne called mythological,
to be polite. As far as claiming that ALL Jews who claim losses
are liars-that is a lie in itself as I have never said nor implied anything
of the sort. It is you who places words in my mouth, because you jump to
false conclusions.
>
> And you wonder that I see you for an antisemite.
I do not know how you see me, but if you see me as an anti-
Semite, you are in error. It must be puzzling to you to see a non
racist debunking Holocaust myths, but such is the case.
>
What 3rd or 4th or 5th generation is being punished?
Indeed this is the case. An exhibit recently opened in a
German town, where the onlooker could stand in front of
a huge billboard in the middle of the town square. This
billboard depicted all types of atrocity photos, and at the very
end of the bulletin board the browsers is left staring into a
reflected image of him or her self, as if they were
personally guilty for it.. This isn’t right, especially
in view of the fact that much which has been written about
the Holocaust is based on fantasy or fraud.
>
> Are you referring to reparations?
Do you consider me
> unfairly punished because my taxes went in part to reparations to
> Japanese-Americans who were imprisoned before I was born?
Are you comparing the amount of money the Japanese received
with the billions poured in as reparations for the Holocaust? I will
be the first to state that there is no value which can be placed on
the lives of loved ones.
>
>Yes, if the figures and alleged murders were based upon fraud.
> >Millions of Germans were murdered after the war as well.
>
> Based on authoritative documentation like someone’s alleged after-
> diner speech at a Rotary Club.
It wasn’t alleged, and the Judge repeated these comments at
many other public funtions.
>
> Yeah, why should we “stigmatize” people just on the basis of what
> they’ve done?
I didn’t use those words.
I hope you remember Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer,
> and Joe Stalin in your prayers.
It is the sinner who needs to be saved, not the righteous.
Likewise, it is the sinner who needs prayer most.
>
> Explain–specifically–how the figure of four million dead (of
> whatever ethnic group) at Auschwitz has been involved with
> “significant amounts of money”. One specific, actual example.
Are you saying it hasn’t been used either to raise money or else elicit sympathy?
I personally can and do sympathize with those who suffered, but I am
not in sympathy with those who use the sufferings of others for financial
gain or as propaganda.
>
I fail to see the difference
> >between a gas chamber and dropping the Atomic bomb on civilians.
>
> That’s because you’re a moral imbecile, not to see the difference
> between an act of war and actions of extermination taken even at the
> cost of a war effort.
Killing civilians is NOT an act of war. I repeat, killing civilians is
NOT an act of war. It is barbarism, but that you for showing us
the nature of your dual standards. What you condemn in one
you condone in another.
>
Of what importance is it if four million of those deaths
> >> are attributed erroneously to Auschwitz by those with no interest
> >> in the details of the Holocaust? Why this obsessive harping?
>
> >It is not harping. It is a clarification of fact in an honest way.
>
> Bullshit. If you were honestly interested in clarification, then
> you would shut up once it was admitted (as it has been many, many
> times) that the four million figure was indeed wrong.
>
> Honesty is not among your motives.
Thank you for telling me my motives. I must tell you yours sometime.
rb
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:42 PDT 1996
Article: 76084 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 08:59:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
>
.
>
> And tell me again how it is that a fraud case involving the invention
> of fake living relatives proves that the Nazis didn’t kill any Jews.
Well, it certainly proves that they never killed those “Jews” doesn’t it?
If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe the
message?
> —
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:42 PDT 1996
Article: 76085 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:01:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 14 Oct 1996 08:33:29 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> >It is not a lie. The monuments (plural) stated that
> >4 million human beings perished at Auschwitz. Don’t
>
> If you dd not lie, then why did you clearly state that the monuments said
> ‘Jews?’ And what do you call this statement of falsehood that you are on
> record as having said?
>
>>>>
Though the monument did not refer explicity to Jews,
it is clear that the overwhelming majority of victims was
considered to be Jews, as the deaths of all other nationalities
were accounted for in other publications by Polish and
Auschwitz authorities. In either event, it is one and the
same LIE, and all the nit-picking in the world isn’t going to
help you.
rb
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:43 PDT 1996
Article: 76086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blackmore: a Forger?
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:03:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > I am being charitable. The alternative is that you deliberately posted
> > > forgeries.
>
> > Like you?
>
> No I have never forged anybody’s name to a post.
>
> Now answer the question: were you involved.
>
> Any response but a direct answer will be taken as a positive response.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Take it however you like, you always do.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 76087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:02:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845689459@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> This is the same writer who explicitly blamed Katyn on the Nazis?
> >> Very reliable source, obviously. Not to mention the moral idiocy
> >> of justifying genocide by the fact that some members of the group
> >> being annihilated choose to fight back.
> >>
> >>>>>
> >The fighting started way before you suggest they
> >fought back…….
>
> When is that, exactly? How long do you think the Jews were
> obligated to wait before fighting back? Until after their
> extermination, perhaps?
>
>>>>
Are you asking me or telling me?
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:45 PDT 1996
Article: 76088 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apology to Nizkor & Jamie M.
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:14:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
.
>
> That’s all very nice Mr. Beaulieu, but it doesn’t disprove my statement one
> little bit. I said that none of the defendants was tortured at Nuremberg and
> this incident, which isn’t torture anyway, happened before Sauckel was
> transferred to Nuremberg. Please try to keep up.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Either way, Gordon, you are in error. There are many types of
torture. Not only were some of these defendants tortured
phsically, but psychologically as well.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:46 PDT 1996
Article: 76089 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another one to add to the Discovery Channel
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:08:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
rblackmore writes:
> :>>:>
> :>>:>I have most likely read the historical sources you refer
> :>>:>to. they are probably in my collection.
> :>
> :>Gee, Gord, I wonder if Mr. “Blackmore” keeps this collection of
> :>sources that he has “most likely read” in his attic?!
>
> Now what does that remind me of?
Well, now, what does it? Anne Frank’s diary?
>
> rb
>
> —
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:46 PDT 1996
Article: 76090 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apology to Nizkor & Jamie M.
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:10:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – Jean-Francois Beaulieu <[email protected]>19 Oct
> 1996 04:16:35 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>[email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:
>
>
> Once again Mr. Beaulieu, you have posted something which has nothing at all to
> do with the thread of this discussion. Do you read your posts before you send
> them?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
I don’t know if he reads them, but you ought to…Allied
torture—a matter of policy.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:47 PDT 1996
Article: 76091 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:18:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
rbl;ackmore writes”
I am not going to debate this subject until
> >>I am ready.
> >>rb
>
> >For this finding, it seems really unusual. So unusual that we can
> >easily understand why you’re not ‘ready’.
>
> I will help you. 86 corpses have been discovered in the basement of
> the institute of anatomy. They had no head.
>
> Even in time of war, that makes a lot, as much that they had no
> evident death cause. Tell us, Watson, aside the absence of head, what
> was the second point who attracted the attention?
>
>
>
>>>>
Wasn’t Hirt another one of those alleged “suicides”?
rb
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 76092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bimko on the Bum
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:23:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845728956@access4>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>
>
> Have you checked any of those assumptions?
Yes. She is a liar.
>
> Now, if she did indeed describe this building inaccurately, does this
> mean that she never saw it?
She is the one who claimed to have been given a royal
tour through the “Black Museum”.
If so, how is it that we know what building
> she was describing?
Read her testimony.
>
> > There is
> >no evidence of shower heads or plumbing for same.
>
> Easy enough to take down shower heads. As for the plumbing–Blackmoron,
> are you really so stupid that you would expect any?
No, but you are stupid enough to believe Bimko’s fraudulent
testimony.
>
> I will skip your babblings on HCN cylinders since it’s outside my
> competence. From reading your own words, it looks like it’s outside
> yours as well.
I didn’t post anything of mine on the cylinders. As I said, the
info above was supplied via a browser, and what they wrote appears
to be true.
rb
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:49 PDT 1996
Article: 76093 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:15:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> : Nuremberg. What a joke. ROTFL. You’re entitled
> : to your opinion, however ignorant. Where are the
> : 6 millions, fool?
>
> They’re dead, you twisted little Nazi bufoon. Your heroes killed
> them.
>
> But it won’t happen again, Mr. Belling. Here’s how it works: you
> can talk your talk all you want, because we believe in free speech,
> unlike you. But the minute you pick up a gun and try to do what
> your spiritual ancestors did in Germany, we’ll kill you.
>
> Clear?
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
You’re a fool and a nut. ROTFL.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:49 PDT 1996
Article: 76094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:16:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> >>
> >)
> >>
> >> The room was intact after the war and is still visible. With the
> >> documents, we know even the cost of the realization of this room in
> >> the former farm.
> >>
> >> There is a letter of Sievers (September 5 44) telling that some
> >> corpses are still “unprocessed”. And when the Allied forces entered in
> >> Strasbourg, they found parts of these corpses still present in the
> >> Institute of anatomy.
> >>
> >> With all this stuff, I wonder what could be acceptable as an evidence
> >> for you ? The only fact that relies only on Kramer’s testimony is what
> >> Hirt told about the nature of the salt.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Right, it’s really UNUSUAL to find corpses in
> >an Institute for Anatomy-tell us another one, Sherlock.
> >By the way, I am not going to debate this subject until
> >I am ready.
> >rb
>
> For this finding, it seems really unusual. So unusual that we can
> easily understand why you’re not ‘ready’.
>
>
>>>>
Wasn’t Hirt another one of those famous “suicides”?
rb
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:50 PDT 1996
Article: 76096 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blackmore the Sucker
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:59:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > Except that anybody with an ounce of sense recognized instantly that
> > > this was a forgery by one of blackmore’s heroe’s Matt Giwer. blackmore
> wants to
> > > pretend that he can tell us who and what to believe.
>
> > > Now we have a demonstration of his analytical ability.
>
> > > Go back to school, little boy.
>
> > Matt Giwer is my hero?
>
> That’s what you told us. You stated it was a compliment to be
> compared to him.
>
>
> > Who is yours? Meyer Lansky?
>
>
> At least he had class. Giwer has none.
>
> A jerk who is taken in by a fraud and then hasn’t the sense to be mad
> at the person who defrauded him, has none.
>
> –YFE
> >>>>
>
>
>>>>
Talk about someone taken in by fraud! Look at yourself, yale.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:51 PDT 1996
Article: 76097 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore Lies Again
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:58:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>
>
> Q: How do you know when R. Blackmore is evading the issue?
>
> A: His keyboard is clicking.
> —
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
>
>>>>
Thank you for your comments.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:52 PDT 1996
Article: 76098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore’s problems with Freedom Fighters (was Re: Kill em all, let G-d sort em out….)
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:00:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> [..]
> > Are you
> > maintaining that the Jews took action against the
> > Nazis because they invaded Poland?
>
> Polish Jews couldn’t bloody well do much to the Nazis
> before they invaded, could they?
>
>
> —
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]>> ====================================
>
>
>>>>
Are you asking me?
From [email protected]. Mon Oct 21 07:02:52 PDT 1996
Article: 76099 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:03:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected].
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
>
> > > You responded to a forged post from Matt Giwer.
> > >
> > > While we’re on the topic, do you think Matt Giwer’s recent spate of
> > > forgeries is conducive to open debate?
>
> > Can’t you see we’re playing with you? Silly people.
>
> Apparently you are admitting that you were involved in forging post. You
> are very silly. You would be in much better shape by just admitting that you were
> fooled.
>
> –YFE
>
>>I am simply not concerned with what Mr. Giwer does, unlike
you people, who appear to go into a frenzy whenever his name is
mentioned.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:53 PDT 1996
Article: 76100 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bimko on the Bum
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:56:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 203
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>
> Let us not lose sight of the fact that the main perpetrators of
> the gassings have admitted using these gas chambers. Blackmore
> and his ilk are attempting to lay red herrings
There you go again, stealing my definitions. It is people
like you and Danny who plant red herrings all over the
place.
across the road
> in the hope that we (and the audience) will be distracted by
> some minor inconsistencies
Minor!? Inconsistencies!? Lies, is more like it.
in the testimony of witnesses who
> were not only frightened and hungry, but who only had a
> glimpse of the gassing facilities.
Frightened? Hungry? At the Belsen trial? Maybe…
Frightened that she might be charged with perjury
and hungry for blind vengeance…..
A “glimpse” of the “gassing” facilities”? Not quite-
she was given a grand tour of the “Black Museum”….
Readers should be warned
> about this.
Readers should also be warned about THIS:
This perjuring witness testified to a figure of 4 million
gassed Jews at Auschwitz, as well as testifying that
a woman was a man and a man was a woman….all
this from an alleged doctor! Go figure……..
>
> Mr. Blackmore is now resorting to the amonymous and “somebody told
> me,”
I wrote: Someone sent me these observations to post and I did because
they are worthy of addressing. End of story, but Mike wishes to ascribe
his motives to other people.
> undocumented canard. What a pity. If said “browser” had posted his
> comments on alt.revisionism, a discussion on the subject at hand
> would have some validity.
Right. So they could be attacked like others? I think not.
>
> Br. Blackmore has regressed, as most deniers eventually do, to
> innuendo and hollow rhetoric.
Talking about yourself again? That is all you have ever offered.
The points that he attempts to make are
> totally unsupported by the documentation.
What documentation? Let’s have it?
Sadly, but in keeping with
> his custom Mr. Blackmore does not quote the exact testimony of the
> witness,
I refer the readers to “The Belsen trial”. It is available in most
university libraries. It is not my intention nor ever was, to
reprint the whole testimony of these individuals. If you want to, go ahead.
I am concerned only with their credibility, so I post where they have
obviously lied.
nor doe he afford us the page numbers in which this
> accounting — mostly ficticious — appears.
Nonsense. You lie with a straight face, Mike.
That much is clear. here are the page numbers:
67, 68.
>
> >
> >She describes the building as brick. The area now said to have been
> >used for gas chambers is made of reinforced concrete, not brick.
>
> Mr. Blackmore is resorting to outright fabrication. What the text
> says is:
(snip)
Wrong again, Mike. I merely posted what someone sent to
me.
The witness states that the BUILDING was made
> of brick, and indeed it was. There are a great many photographs in
> the literature showing the construction of the Auschwitz crematoriums.
> These were constructed of BRICK.
The Krema was of brick, the alleged gas chamber, which she is describing
was NOT made of brick. She lied. More of Mike”s “Dirty Dancing”.
>
This photo, one of several dozen in Pressac, shows the South
> and
> East sides of Krema IV.
She wasn’t in Krema IV.
Only one who is totally invident will
> notice that the building is made of brick.
>
> Photo 296: “Ruins of gas chamber no. 2.” The photo shows a
> pile of rubble consisting mainly of bricks.
Krema ruins. Not the gas chamber.
>
>
> >There is no evidence of shower heads …
>
> Mr. Blackmore would do himself a great favor by looking at:
>
> _AUSCHWITZ: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers_
>
> [Page 484]
>
> “Documents 18 (south/north view) and 19 (north/south view):
> Two
> photographs of the accessible part of the ruins of the east
> side of
> Leichenkeller I of Krematorium II in the region of the
> supporting
> pillar 1/6. Access is at point ‘A’ on drawing 2197 {qv}.
> Only the
> wooden blocks are still visible, each being at the
> intersection of
> a line running longitudinally between the central pillars and
> the east
> wall and a perpendicular running between two central pillars.
> 24 DUMMY SHOWER HEADS WERE FITTED.” (Emphasis
> mine)
>
> >…or plumbing for same.
And 24 dummy shower heads were supposed to convince 600 people
that these facilities were for them to take a shower? I think NOT.
These shower heads were probably destined for those workers who
were employed in the Krema or the morgue. Your interpretation
doesn’t make ANY sense.
>
> Did the witness mention plumbing? She did not. Her exact
> testimony
> follows from that quoted above. From:
>
> _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER AND FORTY-FOUR OTHERS_
>
> [Page 68]
> I gained
> the
> impression that hundreds might go into this room it was so
> large.
> There were many sprays all over the ceiling in rows which
> were
> parallel.”
>
> > There is a drain in the floor.
>
> The witness states:
> for anybody who looked at the floor it was
> quite
> clear that it was not so , because there were no drains.”
There were no drains? A lie, again, because in the vast literature
abounding concerning the gas chambers it is said that the room had
to be washed down after every “gassing” due to the blood, body
fluids, and other residues. As the ramp led DOWN into the alleged gas
chamber, one could harly imagine the residues being washed UP the long
ramp. So there HAD to be drains. Ergo, Bimko LIED.
>
. Once he has done so and, of course, apologized to
>
> the readers of this group for the misleading and falacious statements
It is you who needs to apologize or crawl away in shame……
> While he is doing this he might wish to have someone explain
> Avogadro’s principle, Dalton’s Law of Partial Pressures, and
> Graham’s Law of Diffusion.( Hint: “…the gas will tend to rise.” )
No need. You have simply become caught up in the lies of
your perjuring witnesses again, and I will not be drawn in to
a non debate over issues which are designed prima facie to
draw attention away from the glaring lies.
He who defends the liar, defends the lie……..
If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe the
message….
All we are saying, is give truth a chance….
The truth or not the truth, THAT is the question
The truth and ALL the truth, that is the answer.
rb
> rb
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:54 PDT 1996
Article: 76102 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:05:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [Matt Giwer using the forged userid]
> >> >> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >> >> You silly shit. Ediken is a liar, McVay is a liar, Keren is a liar. We
> >> >> know that.
>
> >> >> We are all dumbshit little liars.
>
> >> >Thanks for finally admitting it, silly little liar.
>
> >> You responded to a forged post from Matt Giwer.
>
> >> While we’re on the topic, do you think Matt Giwer’s recent spate of
> >> forgeries is conducive to open debate?
>
> >Can’t you see we’re playing with you? Silly people.
>
> Pardon me? Are you saying that you were a party to forging my name and
> userid on posts to alt.revisionism?
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta
> –
>
>>>>
Think whatever you like-you do anyway. Paranoid kook.
Fact is, I have NO ties to Mr. Giwer at all, nor do I care
what he does. That is your problem.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:55 PDT 1996
Article: 76103 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: inconsistent idiot
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:07:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845688843@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >You think you are so clever don’t you? Well, I am not an anti-semite,
> >so why don’t you, the champion of “good evidence” post the proof
> >where I have ever said anything evil about the Jews as a race?
>
> I don’t have to, Blackmoron. The readers of this newgroup can figure it
> out for themselves. If you’re incapable of seeing the truth about
> yourself, you’re pathetic. Amazing how predictably antisemites whine
> about being called antisemites.
Give it a break.
>
> >This isn’t quite the situation. I think that some of what
> >most authors right is plain old propaganda, it is fact
> >often mixed with fiction, fantasy, and wishful thinking.
> >My job, as I see it, is to sort through it all and separate
> >the wheat from the chaff.
>
> No. What you do is pick out isolated, out-of-context facts from sources
> you otherwise castigate as liars.
Indeed I have proven many of them to be liars. And you
and your ilk have been quoting out of context for the
past 50 years. People do not need your imprimatur in order
to evaluate a text.
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:55 PDT 1996
Article: 76104 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: inconsistent idiot
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:14:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >where I have ever said anything evil about the Jews as a race?
> >
> To quote your insinuations: (Facts, not insinuations)
>
> “Gee, who was Roosevelts closest advisor?
> Bernie Baruch
>
> Who in Roosevelt’s cabinet called for what
> amounted to the entire
> extirpation
> of the entire German race?
>
> Morgenthau.
>
> Who was Great Britain’s Minister of War?
>
> Hore Belisha.
>
> How many Jews fought against Germany
> during the war?
>
> 1.5 million. And they weren’t armed with Bagels…..”
And who wrote Annie Hall?
Woody Allen.
And who sang “Positively Fourth Street?”
Bob Dylan
And who sang “Over the Rainbow”?
Judy Garland
And what is my favorite sitcom?
Seinfeld.
And who was one of the most beautiful Hollywood
actresses of all time?
Hedy Lamar……
Gee, you sure have a funny way of defining
anti-Semites, Mike. About as accurate as your
interpretation of history/By the way, where did
I say anything about the Jews as a race in any
of the above?
>
>
rb
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:56 PDT 1996
Article: 76106 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: inconsistent idiot
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:17:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
Now do you deny that Bernie Baruch was Roosevelt’s
closest advisor?
> >
Do you deny that Morgenthau called for the virtual
destruction of the German people?>
>
Do you deny that Hore belisha was Great Britains
Minister of War?
>
Do you deny that 1.5 million Jews served in the armed
forces of many different countries and fought against
the Nazis during WW II?>
rb>
>
>
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:57 PDT 1996
Article: 76107 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Leo Lies like a Rug
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:51:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
rblackmore writes:
Seems that the Nazis just couldn’t build those gas chambers
> >fast enough during the final weeks of the war–“I’m ready
> >for my close up, Mr. DeMille….”
>
Or is he insinuating
> that gas chambers did not exist in Dachau, Natzweiler and
> Neuengamme?
>
> If this is what he claims, he is totally deluded .
No. You are deluded, and You are deluding people. These
camps had NO gas chambers.
>
> [Page 222 — Reference 1]
>
> “Langsshnitt durch, eine Entlausungkammer mit
> Degesch-Kreislanufanordnung”
>
> signifies and why this unusual device is installed several times
> in another section of the crematorium. Mr. Blackmore can’t
> and won’t explain this.
Yes. I will. Sections of Dachau were rebuilt AFTER the war.
Also, you have claimed that prisoners were indeed gassed in
these alleged gas chambers at Dachau and that the autopsy and
toxicological reports are available. yet, for months now you have
never produced them. The browsers are aware of that fact also.
>
> 2) Natzweiler was so obviously used as a gas chamber that there
> is a document written by the Nazis:
Confirm this document is authentic. where did it come from, who found
it, was it signed, of so, by whom, and where is the wirtten response to
the inquiry or statement? Your “documents” are NOT documents until
proven so beyond the shadow of a doubt.
>
> [page 199 — Reference 2]
>
> “On 26 September 1943 the construction department
> of the Natzweiler camp, managed by the Waffen SS and
> police, sent the following bil
And where does this document mention that this was a lethal
gas chamber to be used to carry out executions? The construction
department of the SS processed many similar orders for gas chambers
for delousing. even if this particular chamber was a lethal one, which
you need to prove-there is nothing illegal in the State using this form
of execution for those condemned to death. we use gas chambers in
America for the same purpose. They are called “legal executions”.
Aside from that, if you are referring to the so-called Jewish-Bolshevist
Communist-allegation, I think it rather foolish to construct a gas chamber
for only 80 odd people, when they could have simply been given
a phenol shot. Sounds like propaganda to me. And I have read
about the construction of this alleged “gas chamber”. If what I
read is indeed true then I denounce the accusation most emphatically.
>
> To which we add the testimony of Josef Kramer:
Yes. kramer was brutalized by his captors. Witches also testified
to making potions out of the eyes of newts and boiled down baby fat.
His testimony does you no good.
>
> [Pages 173-175 — Reference 3]
did you quite
> deliberately gas 80 prisoners in that gas chamber? – Yes, on
> orders of Reichsfuhrer Himmler.”
And where are these orders?
>
> 3) To end this small exercise in unmasking Mr. Blackmore’s deceit,
> we will go to Neuengamme.
On the contrary, it is not my “deceit” which is unmasked, but your
low level of common sense, along with no proof to back up your
claims.
>
> [Page 193 — Reference 2]
>
> “It has been proved that two gassing operations took place
> at the Neuengamme camp near Hamburg
Who proved this? When? Where? How? Documentation?
Soviet prisoners of war from Fallingbostel POW camp in the
> Luneberg Heath were brought to Neuengamme, and were
> killed as soon as they arrived.
Proof?
>
> “In Neuengamme there were no gas chambers, properly speaking.
> What was known as the ‘bunker’ was used:
So, they were “gassed” in a bunker?
. It was made gastight and new doors installed, along with
> a system of heating pipes that served for distributing the gas
> and
> for ventilation. […]”
And you have these orders for construction, which prove this
was a facility to kill human beings?
>
> Reference 1:
>
> _AUSCHWITZ: 1270 to the Present_
>
Have it. Rehashes the SOS.
>
> Reference 2:
>
> _NAZI MASS MURDER_
> Eugen Kogon, Hermann Langbein & Adalbert Ruckerl, Editors
>
Have it and you criticized when I quoted from it
regarding Goering and the “Final Solution”, but now you run into
their arms to support your unsupportable contentions.
>
> Reference 3:
>
> _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER AND FORTY-FOUR OTHERS_
> (The Belsen Trial)
>
As this last tome seems to be the present favorite of Mr. Blackmore,
It is a source just like any other. I have no favorites.
> perhaps he could count the number of times that one of the defendants
> admits to visiting, seeing, using, or building gas chambers.
Yes, as credible as the testimony of witches in Montague Sommers
books.
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:58 PDT 1996
Article: 76108 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANY MUST LIVE or perish?Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:52:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> “Annie Alpert, OFB” <[email protected]> writes:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >> > > And it appears that Morgenthau was elated with Mr. Kaufman’s
> >> > book as well.
> >> > rb
> >> > > —
> >> Prove it.
> >>
> >
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Would you believe he told me?
>
> You have no credibility up to this point. the answer is no.
>
>
> Mike Curtis
>
>>>>
Is your name Annie?
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:59 PDT 1996
Article: 76111 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 02:52:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845764084@access4>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >It did mention 4 million dead. How many of them were Jews,
> >Yale? Then break down the rest of the figures by nationality,
> >religion, and exact numbers.
>
> First, no one has exact numbers. Second, the figure is wrong.
> About three million can be considered immigrants from Oz,
> Wonderland, Narnia and Barsoom. Choose your own breakdown.
>
> Most of the rest–the real ones–were Jews.
>
>>>>
As usual, you are wrong. Must I always educate you?
The figures are indeed broken down in the same book I
quoted and the people from Oz turn out to be Jews, not Gentiles.
Sorry to rain on your little parade. And don’t ask me to do your
research for you. Find the book and read it for yourself, like I
had to.
“All we are saying, is give truth a chance.”
rb
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:00 PDT 1996
Article: 76112 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:25:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> I’m sure he feels fine, but you and your team must feel pretty stupid right
> now. You have implied that the Allies tortured Hoess and _forced_ him to
> write memoirs in which he
>
> – talked about them having tortured him
> – gave a _lower_ figure for people killed in Auschwitz than the Russians had
> given
>
> You guys are desperate.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Don’t feel so smug, because at this point the figures are irrelevant.
The point is torture was used and Hoess is simply a liar, who
ended up not giving a damn what he wrote, whether it confirmed
his earlier statements or didn’t. His whole testimony isn’t worth a
plug nickel. Get it? It is you who should be feeling ridiculous, as
your advocates have always snipped and quoted from Hoess
whenever it supported their twisted and deranged interpretation
of the Holocaust. You and your crowd are losing the argument
day by day, and the sad thing is, you don’t even seem to notice.
Just like the lemmings…….
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:00 PDT 1996
Article: 76113 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:08:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> >>
>
>
> Well, since you have to maintain that all of the eyewitnesses had to
> be lying, that all of the SS guards who confessed to murdering people
> with poison gas were tortured into saying so, that the stated
> intentions of the Wannsee minutes and Himmler’s Posen speech
> are–what? misunderstood?–, that the documents which mention “cellars
> for gassing” and “gas chambers” must be forgeries, that the SS built
> 52 crematories that, by their own exaggerated estimates, could have
> disposed of the entire camp population several times a year, I would
> have to guess that additional corroborating evidence has no purchase
> with you.
If I want my opinion, I’ll ask you for it.
>
> I would also have to say that what you presume to call “research” is
> nothing more than a desperate search for props to a quasi-religious
> conviction that the Nazis weren’t really such bad chaps after all.
> Whatever it is, it sure ain’t historical research.
>
If anyone has a belief based upon faith it is you, because your
old train schedules and bills are NO evidence for murder, whine
and whimper all you like.
> —
>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:01 PDT 1996
Article: 76114 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:08:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # That’s fine. Don’t answer. You’re a lying scum bag anyway.
>
> Nazi-boy here is furious that his lie about the writing on
> the monument at Auschwitz was exposed. Of course, he claimed
> it was an “honest mistake”. But he also claimed to have with
> him a photograph of the monument…
>
> Standard nazi-boy routine. When their lies are exposed, it’s
> always an “honest mistake”, never mind it is totally unclear
> how one could make such a mistake.
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
What excuse do you have for the trash you post?
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:02 PDT 1996
Article: 76115 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rblackmore Lies for the nth time… Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:10:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
> : > (1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding
> : > the SWC
> :
> : Its my opinion and my belief until you prove otherwise.
>
> RBlackmore/JBelling has carnal knowledge of sheep. That is my opinion
> and my belief until he proves otherwise.
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
Stop barking and go back to bed with your mama/
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:02 PDT 1996
Article: 76117 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rosa Lopez vs Ada Bimko-Bimbo and Dumbo
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:16:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>
>
> If I consider your struggle here, I have no need to come back with a
> thing.
Don’t bother. You’d be wasting everyone’s time.
You and your little liar Bimbo can go peddle your
lies elsewhere as they have been completely exposed.
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:03 PDT 1996
Article: 76118 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where have all the soldiers gone?
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:18:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845851240@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Do you have proof 3 million Soviet prisoners of war died? That
> >conflicts with Stalin’s statements to Churchill and Truman at Potsdam
> >that 5 million Soviet troops died during the war, as opposed to 3.5
> >-4 million Germans.
>
> Do you have proof that 3.5 to 4 million German troops died? BTW, do you
> understand that “Soviet prisoners of war who died” might be a subset
> rather than the totality of “Soviet troops who died”?
>
> >Ezra Pound also made broadcasts from Italy to the US, and was
> >treated like a caged animal after the war ended, all for calling
> >Roosevelt “stinky”
>
> Ezra Pound got off with an unlikely insanity plea probably due to
> respect for his age and his erstwhile literary merits. His “cage”
> was quite nice. Among the treasonous statements that landed him
> there:
>
> Had you had the sense to eliminate Roosvelt and his Jews or
> the Jews and their Roosevelt at the last election, you would
> not now be at war. [23 April 1942]
>
> Every hour that you go on with this war is an hour lost to
> you and your children. And every sane act you commit is committed
> in homage to Mussolini and Hitler. Every reform, every lurch
> toward the just price, toward the control of a market, is an
> act of homage to Mussolini and Hitler. They are your leaders,
> however much you think you are conducted by Roosevelt or told up
> by Churchill. You follow Mussolini and Hitler in every
> constructive act of your government. [26 May 1942]
>
> See E. Fuller Torrey’s THE ROOTS OF TREASON: EZRA POUND AND THE
> SECRETS OF ST. ELIZABETH’S (London: Sidgwick & Jackson, 1984) for
> more information on this traitor and his alleged punishment.
>
>>>>
Pound was entitled to his own opinions. He never voted for roosevelt.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:04 PDT 1996
Article: 76120 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Papa Eicke Speaks
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:42:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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On June 4, 1937, Theodore Eicke, SS General
and Inspector of the Concentration Camps issued
an internal circular in which he anounced that the
SS does not tolerate mistreatment of concentration camp inmates.
In a section headed “Mistreatment of Prisoners,” Eicke
announces that an SS sergeant named Zeidler was
being punished because, “in a sadistic mood,” he had
struck a prisoner at the Sachsenhausen concentration
camp “in a nasty way.” After demotion to the lowest
SS rank, Zeidler was permanently dismissed from the
SS, and then turned over to a criminal judge.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:05 PDT 1996
Article: 76123 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Malady with Malmedy
Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:00:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Concerning the so-called “Malmedy Case” English
author Michael Reynolds writes:
“Prosecution attempts to prove that orders had been issued
before the offensive for the troops not to take prisoners
were far from convincing- it was well known that Peiper’s
Kampfgruppe had sent scores of American prisoners to the
rear during the early part of its advance.
A major witness for the Defence was Hal McCowan
who testified that peiper and his men treated the
American POWs in La Gleize quite reasonably considering
the circumstances.
If someone was known to have been a member of the SS,
Waffen or otherwise, he was considered by most people to
be guilty of crimes against humanity and deserving of
punishment; and so it was with Hitler’s Life Guards-the
surviving members of the Leibstandarte had been tried
and found guilty in the minds of most of the world war II
victors long before they appeared at Dachau!
There can be little doubt that today most of the evidence
presented at the Dachau trial would be rejected by any
court, civilian or military, in any democratic country.
End of Quotes
Source: The Devil’s Adjutant, Michael Reynolds,
Sarpedon Publishing, N.Y. 1995, pg. 255, 257.
Note: The author was a Major General in the
British Armed Forces, who retired as a professional
soldier in 1986. He commanded NATO’s International
Mobile Force and was the Director of its Military Plans
and Policy Division.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:06 PDT 1996
Article: 76125 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Moshe Brause leads his people out of the Vilna Ghetto
Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:11:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
According to Isaac Kowalski in “A Secret Press in
Nazi Europe”,:
“After they waited in hiding for two or three hours,
the favorable moment arrived, with the approached
of a large transport train rushing soldiers to the front.
When the transport came near enough to the partisan
ambush, Moshe Brause pulled the cord which set off
a tremendous explosion, derailing and turning over
dozens of cars.
The three partisans saw a huge burst of fire from
exploding ammunition and heard the screams of
wounded German soldiers.
Brause and the others kissed and embraced with
joy and quickly withdrew deeper into the woods.
Soon after that they returned to the ghetto by
roundabout ways.
One scout learned later from nearby peasants that
more than 200 German soldiers had been killed, and
an even larger number were wounded in the first
sabotage action carried out by the members of the U. P. O.-
Jews confined in the Vilna ghetto. Pg. 73, 74.
Comment: It wasn’t long after many other incidents like these
that Himmler ordered the ghettoes cleared out.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76129 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Just in time for Halloween
Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:32:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
When Dachau fell into Western hands in 1945, it had to look
the part, so, under the inspiration of Philip Auerbach, Under-
Secretary of State in the provincial government of Bavaria,
it was transformed into a showplace of horrors.
Near the entrance stood a big fir tree with a horizontal
bough. On the orders of American Captain Strauss,
German prisoners of war worked the bough with ropes to
damage the bark. Auerbach then proclaimed it the “Hanging
Tree,” and said that 10,000 Jews had been hung on its bough.
The workers received orders to dig a blood-pit with a drain
pipe for draining off the blood, because it must be made to appear
that here Jewish blood had been flowing in streams. The shower-
baths, dressing rooms and reception halls had to be rebuilt so that they
should appear like gas-chambers. For the sake of achieving this
appearance, a special separate concrete structure was built
with small porthole-like openings, and these contraptions are
still on show today (1958-rb) purporting to demonstrate that the killing
“death gas” was let in through these portholes.”
…Jews converted this camp into a chamber of horrors……
Comment: Sounds just like Hollywood, doesn’t it?
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:03:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76131 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Who turned off the Gas?
Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:43:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
From: “Chronicle of the 20th Century, Chronicle
Publications, N.Y., 1987, pg. 583:
“Untold thousands of others were asphyxiated in
the gas chambers of Auschwitz by Nazis intent
on “purifying” the German race. The gas was turned
off last November.”
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 09:23:04 PDT 1996
Article: 76160 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:18:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> >>
>
> >> Bye for now, Watson.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Ta ta and cheerio.
>
> Very funny. You said, Watson:
>
> >You have no other
> >evidence to prove the alleged gassings at natzweiler.
>
> I told what kind of evidences we have. You didn’t ask for precisions,
> obviously because we are in an atypic case, the nazies left us the
> documents, the cellar, the witnesses and even a lot of corpses and
> some other material. It’s true that the battle front moved very fast
> at this time..
>
> When you will be ready, let me know. It will be a pleasure to help
> your historical research and give you some quotations with references.
>
>
>>>>
I’ll let you know.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 10:29:31 PDT 1996
Article: 76184 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 02:56:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845689280@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> >> [email protected] writes:
> >>
> >> >> BTW, what was a “Sonderkommando”? What were the duties of a
> >> >> “Sonderkommando”? Clerical? Janatorial?
> >>
> >> >You know what the duties of a Sonderkommando was-disposal
> >> >of the dead. Don’t play coy.
> >>
> >> Funny thing. I worked in a prison for five years. We didn’t designate
> >> anybody–inmate or staff–as official dead-disposer. Why do you think
> >> that such an “office” was necessary in German “labor” camps?
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Why do you? I reckon you could have used a few
> >at Andersonville.
>
> The Confederate prison camp for Union soldiers, the one whose
> superintendent was later hanged for mistreatment of the prisoners
> in his care? (Hm, where did that superintendent hail from?)
> Funny you should bring this up this comparison, which is all in
> all pretty apt.
>
>>>>
Hmmmm. Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth, Koch, and
other camp commanders who abused the prisoners under their
charge. Rascher was also executed by the SS.
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 10:29:31 PDT 1996
Article: 76185 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 03:00:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > scam, plain and simple. The dream is over.
> > >
> > > Garbage. Piper’s study began in 1980, many years before
> > > David Cole made his trip to Auschwitz.
>
> > Right. And it took 10 years for them to correct the
> > obvious. Give us a break.
>
> Wrong. Historians _outside_ the iron curtain knew that
> this four million figure was too high as early as the
> 1950s and 60s.
Really? Then explain why nathan Ausubel gave a fraudulent
figure of 4 million Jewish dead at Auschwitz in his “Pictorial
History of the Jewish People?
>
> Piper’s study was first presented in 1986, and it was not
> until Soviet influence on Poland ended that the museum changed
> its erroneous figure.
So then you will refer us to a source from, say, the Wiesenthal Center,
which proves they denounced the figure as fraudulent before that time.
>
> The ‘obvious error’ was not maintained by any Jewish cabal, but
> by the Soviets themselves.
Why are you mentioning a cabal?
>
> —
>
rb
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 07:41:23 PDT 1996
Article: 76302 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Allied atrocities–stainless Stele forgery?
Date: 21 Oct 1996 01:51:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845831056@access4>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
>
> >I’ve never heard of this article and am not particularly bothered. Did you
> >hear the one about the Auschwitz inmate who was allowed to ice skate on a
> >lake ten miles away unsupervised? I thought not.
>
> Feel free to educate us all. I guess you just don’t want to tell us
> why you think someone’s memories of an after-dinner Rotary Club
> speech are adequate documentation to accuse the U.S. armed forces of
> crushing the testicles of 137 helpless German murderers of U.S.
> prisoners of war.
>
>>>>
Oh-so you maintain that 137 men shot the Americans at Malmedy?
I should think someone should go and arrest the crew who dropped
the atomic bomb on hundreds of thousands of civilians. What do
you think? Do you condone it?
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 07:41:23 PDT 1996
Article: 76307 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 18 Oct 1996 11:30:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad66-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
> ——————-
> When you arise in the morning,………(snip)
When you arise in the morning…contact the Discovery Channel,
then contact WW II magazine, then contact Nathan Ausubel,
then contact F. Piper, then contact the Ex-members of the
“Soviet Extraordinary Commission”, the same “commission”
appointed by Stalin to condemn the Germans for the murders
at Katyn, then contact an out of print book publisher to
order “A Gallery of Nazis”, then contact Rupert Butler in
England and request a copy of his recorded interview with
Clarke, Hoess’s torturer, then contact………your psychiatrist
and ask him for some sedatives.
rb
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 07:41:24 PDT 1996
Article: 76308 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 18 Oct 1996 11:31:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad66-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> > > Fleming is the deniers’ bane. His work is monumentally sourced, full of
> > > footnotes, a monument of scholarship. It is easy to see why the deniers fear
> > > him. He cannot be rebutted, since his sources are all first-hand. Real
> > > piss-off, right Mr. “Blackmore”?
>
> > I have read more than you have on this subject, and
> > I don’t agree with your darling Fleming. Only a stupid
> > person would but into his claptrap. Fleming’s sources
> > are as phoney as he is.
>
> Only a rather stupid person would be fooled by Giwer’s forgeries.
>
> You were.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Think so?
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 19:05:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76412 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 02:54:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
> >.
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> ——————-
> >> When you arise in the morning, give thanks for the morning light, for your
> >> life and your strength. Give thanks for your food and for the joy of living.
> >> If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies in yourself.
> >>
> >>>>>
> >When you arise in the morning, you ought to go straight
> >back to bed….saves you the humiliations you’re bound
> >to encounter during the day…….Mr. “Gandhi”, the Guru
> >of lies.
>
> If I were him I’d give up by now.
>
> Kurt Stele
>
>
>>>>
He can’t. He’s addicted.
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 23:08:01 PDT 1996
Article: 76436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Allied atrocities–stainless Stele forgery?….Not Quite…
Date: 21 Oct 1996 02:44:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 155
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845687665@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Lieutenant Colonel Willis N. Everett, Jr., an
> >American lawyer…(snip)
>
> Well, that’s what defense attorneys are for, isn’t it?
Ask Yale Edeikin.
>
> >The Supreme Court refused his petition, saying it
> >lacked jurisdiction (!-rb) over the acts committed by
> >the United States Army in Germany,….
> You dubious interpretation. If you tell me where to find the text
> of the decision (I presume you’ve read it and are basing your
> interpretation on the text of the decision) (just joking, I in
> fact assume you’ve done so such thing), I’d be interested in
> reading it myself.
If this is what you think Mr. Flower, find it and look it up
for yourself.
>
>
> >Colonel Everett’s action, nevertheless, forced the Army
> >to take notice,
>
> Uh-huh. Now, as I understand, they wound up issuing something
> called the Simpson Report, which found the charges of brutality
> basically bogus. True or untrue?
Did you read the whole report as well as all the comments made by
the Judge? Do that, then make your own opinion.
>
> >….Judge van Roden, after his return to the United States,
> >gave a series of lectures and after-dinner speeches in
snip
…
>
> If indeed he signed on to an official report to the contrary,
> can you tell me why, exactly, you prefer his after-dinner tales
> of terror? What, exactly, is your reason for assuming one is
> the truth, the other a lie?
It is a fair question, but the fact as such was stated by the Judge
on many occasions. What may have gone on behind the scenes
at the Simpson Proceedings, I do no know.
]. Speaking
> >to the Chester Pike Rotary Club on December 14, 1948,
>
> Where can I find a compete transcript of this speech?
Most likely through the newspaper which quoted it.
There was more text in the source I took it from, but I haven’t
gotten around to posting it yet. You also might want to refer
to the recent book “The Devil’s Adjutant” by Michael Reynolds,
who wrote the following:
Prosecution attempts to prove that orders had been issued
before the offensive for the troops not to take prisoners were
far from unconvincing-it was well known that Peiper’s Kampfgruppe
had sent scores of American prisoners to the rear during the early
part of its advance…..A major witness for the defence was Hal McCowan
who testified that Peiper and his men treated the American POW’s in
LaGleize quite reasonably considering the circumstances. Page 255.
He further writes on Page 257:
There can be little doubt that today most of the evidence presented
at the Dachau Trial would be rejected by any court, civilian or military,
in any democratic company.
>
> >Judge van Roden said, “All but two of the Germans in the
> >139 cases we investigated had been kicked in the testicles
> >beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure
> >with our American investigators.
>
> I don’t suppose you can give me a list of these 137 unfortunates?
I could, if you want to send money to cover the cost of the service.
>
> >Source: “The High Cost of Vengeance, Freda Utley,
> >Henry Regnery Company, Chicago, 1949, pg. 186,187.
>
> Hm, yes, Freda Utley. Found one of her books in the local library
> today (not that one, I’m afraid) (snip hateful irrelevant drivel)
.
Thanks for your input, its even less impressive than your output.
>
>
….Seems like
> >a pattern is emerging, or should I say, a POLICY.
>
> Would you care to describe the context of this dubious narrative?
> Did it concern the persecution of Jews?
Let’s see…..were blacks prohibited from drinking from the same
water fountains as whites in America’s southern states decades after the
Nuremberg trials had ended? Were Black students
refused educational benefits? Were black professionals denied the right
to practice their professions in white firms? Did blacks
have to ride at the back of the bus? Well, we could go on and on about
mistreatment of minorities and end with a prime example of Palestine’s
role in the mid-east today. Would you like to do that, Mr. Flower?
Or making
> homos wear little pink triangles?
Homos? At any rate, they were compelled to wear them in camps
after they were probably arrested on a regular old morals charge.
Seems the camp officials wanted other inmates to know who was standing
in back of them should they ever “drop the soap” in the shower……
What was this, er, Malmedy
> business all about? Care to tell us what these Germans were being
> accused of? And, er, convicted of? And, er, goddam guilty of?
Not quite, as the new book by British Major General Michael
Reynolds honestly points out. Seems like only hateful diehards
like yourself think they can continue disseminating the old canards
of the past with impunity. Not so, any more….its a brave new world.
>
Those Kraut bastards
> murdered about a hundred helpless American prisoners of war.
(snip the rest)
Thanks for confirming what I just wrote.
>
> And what does this all have to do with Hoess? Was he among the
> accused of Malmedy?
Apparently you’re too dim witted to figure it out.
“In all this world , there is nothing more upsetting than
the clobbering of a cherished belief.”
rb
“All we are saying, is give truth a chance.”
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Tue Oct 22 23:08:02 PDT 1996
Article: 76438 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 02:53:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >Gandhi’s vomit trashed
> >>
> >> Since you are the one who claims that more than 6 million innocents were
> >> not destroyed in the Nazi effort to fulfill Hitler’s agenda, the onus lies
> >> upon you to support your claims.
>
> >No it isn’t. Prove that six million died.
>
> All Gunga Din contributes to a.r. are mantric chants of “the 6 million died. The 6
> million died,” as if that helps or proves anything.
>
> I guess he’s relying to the old “if you say something long enough….” principle.
> But alt.revisionism just isn’t the place to be repeating “Six Million Died” without at
> least adding the minimum standard Holocaust pseudo-evidence appended thereto.
>
> Kurt Stele
>
>
>>>>
It is clear, our “Gandhi” is no Mahatma.
rb
From [email protected] Wed Oct 23 10:17:37 PDT 1996
Article: 76569 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!news.total.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 10:58:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845830433@access4>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >Well, ‘in your opinion’ Kramer did all he could to help
> >the inmates of Belsen, which included:
> >
> > – refusing to give them water
> > – refusing to give them food
> > – refusing to give them medical attention
>
> OK, so he was short a few supplies…
>
> > – forcing them to work without any of the above.
>
> But of course that was to keep their minds off the other problems!
> Nazi humanitarianism at its finest!
>
>>>>
You never know when to give up do you? Very well, it will
be back to the Belsen trial again. At the moment I am
perusing some more “survivor” testimony.
From [email protected] Wed Oct 23 10:17:38 PDT 1996
Article: 76570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:00:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>
> You are fabricating again. You cannot say in one sentence that there
> was no food and in the next that the inmates were cooking food.
>
> > > Your opinions of how Kramer ‘helped’ the inmates are
> > > interesting, to put the matter lightly.
> >
> > They are facts, whether interesting or otherwise.
>
> They are lies you created to justify your hero worship.
>
>
> –YFE
>
>
>>>>
Yale, no one even takes you seriously any more….you
are the man who advised to give the inmates water from
cisterns which had rotting corpses and turds floating in
it……
From [email protected] Wed Oct 23 10:17:38 PDT 1996
Article: 76571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 21 Oct 1996 11:01:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd60-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > Since you make the claim the onus is upon you. What in particular about the
> > > eyewitness testimonies and the physicial evidence do you find ‘absurd’,
> > > that lead you to the erroneous conclusion that more than 6 million jews,
> > > gypsies, political prisoners, homosexuals, and others were not killed ?
>
> [snip]
>
> > I have been posting it slowly but surely, and there will be more.
> > Top o the mornin to ya!
>
> You¹ve posted nothing which has not already been soundly refuted.
>
>
>>>>
Daydream believer…….
From [email protected] Wed Oct 23 13:22:41 PDT 1996
Article: 76581 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Add Yale Edeiken to the Discovery Channel
Date: 21 Oct 1996 01:46:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845764269@access4>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd20-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> Blackmoron, are you completely nuts? Yale and everyone else
> have been telling you that 1) the 4 million figure is false
> (you’re beating a dead horse) and 2) the figure seems to have
> been disseminated by the Polish Communist government in an
> attempt to obscure the fact that the majority of victims were
> Jewish. Your quotes do nothing to change this. Read them.
> Where are Jews mentioned?
>
> Your victory-crowing with a quote which supports you not in the
> slightest is grotesque. What’s wrong with you, anyway?
>
>>>>
Apparently what’s wrong with you is worse than what is wrong
with me. Fool, my point was, how many of the 4,000,000 given
by the Polish Commission referred to non-Jews specifically? If
you break it down, you will see that the OVERWHELMING majority
of these faked figures were still claimed to be Jews.
Also, here is the figure given by the Jewish author Nathan Ausubel
in his widely disseminated book, “The Pictorial History of the Jewish people”
which went through more than 11 editions and repeated the same
lie over and over again:
“…in Oswiecim and its subsidiary plants, almost 4,000,000 Jewish
lives were snuffed out.” Page 261.
BTW, I win so many victories on alt.revisionism that I have no
need to “crow” about it. It is only dyed in the wool fanatics like
yourself who refuse to budge an inch, even when your nose is
shoved in the truth.
Now, go take two aspirins and call me in the morning.
rb
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:00 PDT 1996
Article: 76604 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Questions the Blackmore/Belling troll refuses to answer…
Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:44:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>
>
(snip)
>
> (b) When you find that you are unable to adduce evidence to support your
> claim as noted above, will you retract the statement and admit your error ?
>
> ——————-
>
>>>>
Note that all these questions have been answered over and over again
and Gandhi refuses to accept the answers he is given. I urge people
to access Deja News and read all my replies for themselves. Now, to
Mr. Gandhi-will you now admit that you grossly misrepresent my communications
to you without regard for truth or the explanations you have been given
over and over again.
rb
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:03 PDT 1996
Article: 76608 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Short Sharp Lesson for blackmore
Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:23:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
That is impossible. There is no such opinion and blackmore has been
> caught — again — distorting a source beyond all recognition.
>
>
(snip)
> In short, blackmore’s contention that the Supreme Court’s refusal to
> hear the Malmedy petition places the military government in Germany “above the
> law” is nonsense based either upon his legal ignorance or his willful distortion of
> the law.
>
> –YFE
>
In fact, there was no “law”.
All these technicalities of which Mr. Edeikin writes are simply
another ploy to divert the reader’s attention away from the facts.
It is a rather obvious ploy which Mr. Edeikin uses over and over
again. No one is being fooled by it. Mr. Edeikin is a lawyer after
all, but a lawyer with an axe to grind. The facts are exactly as I
quoted them. The legal precedent for these trials were set at Nuremberg,
where in the original charter, Paragraph VII of Ordinance No. 7, we find:
“The Tribunals shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence. They
shall adopt and apply to the greatest extent expeditious and non-technical
procedure, and shall admit any evidence which they deem to have
probative value. Without limiting the foregoing general rules, the
following shall be deemed admissible if they appear to the tribunal
to contain information of probative value relating to the charges:
affadavits, depositions, interrogations, and other statements, diaries,
letters, records, findings, statements and judgments of the military
tribunals and the reviewing and confirming authorities of any of the
United Nations, and copies of any document, if the original is not readily
available or cannot be produced without delay. The tribunal shall afford
the opposing party such opportunity to question the authenticity or
probative value of such evidence as in the opinion of the tribunal the
ends of justice require.”
So, here is the precedent in a nutshell: The tribunals shall NOT be
bound by “technical rules of evidence”…..Of course not, otherwise
the accused might have received a fair trial, especially when an
accusation must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The intent
and actual purpose of the tribunal was clear: They were to “apply to
the greatest possible extent expeditious and non technical procedure”,
in other words, to railroad the defendants to a final condemnatory judgment.
Then we have the list of items deemed appropriate as “admissible”. These
are:
1. Affadavits (Thousands of affadavits were submitted and the accused were
not allowed the right to confront their accusers.)
2. Depostions (Ditto).
3. Interrogations (We all have been seeing how many of these “interrogations”
were conducted.
4. Copies of documents if the originals were not “available”….
This is a carte blanche for forgeries.
Indeed, the accused were allowed the “right” to question the authenticity
of the “documents” but the final decision rested with the victors.
Note further:
“The Judges were also given the right to be informed beforehand
of any evidence to be presented by the defense, and could refuse to
allow it if they did not consider it “relevant”.
How convenient for the prosecution!
Dr. Kranzbuehler, attorney for the Krupp family, availed himself of the
rare opportunity to protest such measures. He said:
“These defendants have no constitutional rights. It has been
confirmed again and again to them that the guarantees given
in American procedure are not applicable to them…..”
On February 27, 1948, Kranzbuehler sent a telegram to President
Truman saying that “all endeavors to secure a fair trial” had been
frustrated “on account of rules originating from American military
authorities,” and appealing to the President of the United States
for “help and relief.” His appeal was not answered.
These are the real facts concerning Nuremberg. Mr. Edeikin’s
“Dirty Dancing” fools no one who has access to the whole truth,
something he seeks to conceal and distort on a more or less
continual basis. My question is “why”?
Quotes taken from: “The High Cost of Vengeance” by
Freda Utley, Henry Regnery Co., Chicago, Ill. 1949, pg.
169-176, respectively.
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:04 PDT 1996
Article: 76617 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on Malmedy
Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:37:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.846037603@access1>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
<[email protected]> from [email protected],
>If this is what you think Mr. Flower, find it and look it up
> >for yourself.
No need. It’s since been confirmed by Yale Edeiken that you don’t
> have a clue about the basis for the Supreme Court’s decision not
> to intervene.
Mr. Edeikin, whose very profession produces contempt in most people.
Not quite. I have replied to Mr. Edeikin’s disinformation.
You choose odd bed-fellows, Mr. Power. Instead of
seeking after truth you choose to pursue lies and
distortions. However, this is all you have, and you
must live with your lies if you make the choice to
propagate them.
>
I don’t have the report, as was obvious from my post. Your
> reluctance to answer is itself a sort of answer, though.
It is the sort of answer you don’t like, of course, as the
burden of research is placed upon you.
>
> >> Where can I find a compete transcript of this speech?
> >
> >Most likely through the newspaper which quoted it.
>
> I tried that, remember? The cite was bogus.
So now you choose to lie with the rest of your companions?
That’s ok by me. The cite was not and is not bogus. Your
claim to have researched it is bogus. No one is being fooled
by your pathetic chicanery.
>
> >> I don’t suppose you can give me a list of these 137 unfortunates?
> >
> >I could, if you want to send money to cover the cost of the service.
>
> What service? Yours, for keying in 137 names? No thanks.
Then why did you ask?
>
> >Let’s see…..were blacks prohibited from drinking from the same
> >water fountains as whites in America’s southern states decades after the
> >Nuremberg trials had ended? etc
The alleged prosecutorial conduct in the Malmedy trial
> is completely irrelevant.
No, it isn’t.
And what does this all have to do with Hoess? Was he among the
> >> accused of Malmedy?
> >
> >Apparently you’re too dim witted to figure it out.
>
> Apparently you’re too smart to try to answer.
Apparently you’re too dishonest to admit your own deceptions.
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:05 PDT 1996
Article: 76618 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:47:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> >2. I would say that the Nazis treatment of the Jewish
> >people was similar to America’s treatment of Native Americans.
> >
>
> Oh, please, tell me about this history. Let’s start at the very
> beginning. BTW, the beginning is the 16th century coast.
>
>
>
>>>>
Later. BTW, I also, am an authority on this subject. I would
suggest that you start a new discussion group. However, I doubt
whether we will have differing opinions on this particular subject.
rb
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:06 PDT 1996
Article: 76620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Survivor” Abraham Glinowieski-Beaten by the Invisible Man
Date: 23 Oct 1996 21:10:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 196
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Here is some more “survivor testimony” i.e., more LIES< > >taken from “The Belsen Trial” pages 103, 105:
> >
Look at these people and see whom you can recognize? – I
> etc Also I collected a pair of jackboots and for this I
> received 25 strokes.
>
> Mr. Blackmore’s utter lack of humanity is patently displayed. Is he
> a believer in this sort of physical punishment?
Mr. G was punished for stealing. Who knows what else he did…steal
food perhaps from other hungry inmates. As you know these types of
offenses were rather common in KZ’s. Also, I do not believe in corporal
punishment. Now, do you approve of the way Germans were interrogated
and mistreated by the allies?
The first picture is titled “One of the victims of typhus
> inside a hut.”
What has this to do with the credibility of Mr. G? Also, typhus
was there after the german administration surrendered. More
“dirty dancing”.
This picture shows an emaciated woman
> aged 30 to 50 with deep drawn, haunted eyes and
> a babushka tied around her head. Would Mr. Blackmore
> liked for his grandmother to be treated this way?
Perhaps she was…..
More so
> had she been innocent of any crime?
My grandmother never committed any crimes. Also, these are
obvious ploys desgined to elicit an emotional response in the
reader, rather than deal with the lies of Mr. G.
>
> The second picture is entitled “Utter squalor prevails in
> the living quarters.”
This is an admitted fact. It was also testified to at the Belsen
Trial that many of the inmates themselves were responsible
for much of the filth and squalor prevailing in the camp.
Perhaps Mr. Blackmore
> would accept that his mother, daughter or wife should be
> treated this way.
More attempts to elicit emotional responses. Deal with Mr. G.
>
> The photographs facing page 105 are equally dramatic if,
> for nothing else, because of the obvious contrast:
The men appear to be in good physical
> condition and well-fed
And? They weren’t ill with typhus or enteritis or dysentery. If
they were, they would resemble the inmates who became ill, and
who were recently shipped to Belsen from other camps, where they
brought the illness with them and carried it into the camp.
>
> The second picture is titled: “S.S. women were also made to
> work [presumably by their Britsh captors – comment mine].
> These women were the equivalent of the man for brutality.
Let’s discuss it. perhaps some of them were cruel. perhaps some of
the inmates were cruel as well. there were many common criminals
in these camps.
> The picture shows five women (and the half-hidden face of
> what appears to be a man), all of whom are fine specimens
> of Aryan ‘beauty’.
Is this supposed to be an ethnic slur?
Well-dressed in their uniforms, these
> ladies look quite fit and well-fed.
Perhaps you would prefer to see them starving? Would you want that for
your mother or sister?
Two of these young ladies
> appear to have been, if one can employ a local colloquialism,
> “hit with an ugly stick.”
So it is an ethnic slur after all. Mike’s old double standard.
>
> When he is quite finished with these pictures, perhaps he can turn
> to the photographs
I have seen them all and I find it abhorrent, but these terrible
conditions are not the fault of Kramer or his staff. The fault lies
with higher authorities as well as in the catastrophic conditions
produced by the war and allied bombing in germany.
>
> Glinowieski’s testimony continues:
Finally!
>
> [Page 104]
>
> “What do you know about Weitgartner? – I worked with my
>
I was not
> allowed to se my brother. Later on he died. (At this point the witness
> broke down.)”
If this is true, then Weingartner should have been punished appropriately,
but we still need to hear his version of this incident. Also, Mr. G. has
already been demonstrated to be a thief and a fabricator, so I expect
there was more to this than meets the eye.
>
> >Cross examined by Major Winwood, pages 105, 106:
> >
> >Winwood: You mentioned an incident in October
> >or November, 1943,
> >A: No, it is not true.
Well, it is true. He lied and was caught lying.
> >
> >Q: In the statement you made to a British officer at Belsen,
> >why did you not mention this very painful incident?
> >
> >A: Because only photographs of the S.S. men were
> >shown to me and I was asked to say whether I could
> >not accuse any of them?”
> >
> >End of Quotes.
> >
> >Ha! Read it for yourselves. Another liar.
snip
> >
> >”If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you
> >believe the message?”
>
> It is quite possible that the witness was mistaken about the date.
> Let us analyse the witnesses words:
He stated quite emphatically that he remembered this incident. he
was a liar attempting to incriminate Kramer for something he could
not possibly have done.
>
> [Page 107]
>
> “[…] As a result of typhus do you find difficulty in
> remembering what you have said in the statement? – I remember
> everything but not the details.”
He remembered the details of his lie distinctly.
>
fact that the witness and Kramer _did_ coincide in Auschwitz for
> a considerable period.
Dirty dancing. Mr. G. lied and you don’t have the integrity to admit it.
>
>
the
> admissions by Kremer, Hoessler, Kleim and others that prisoners
> under their care were sent to the gas chambers and exterminated. In
> the final analysis, this is the part of the testimony that deniers
> dread.
In his first statement kramer denied that there ever were gas chambers.
You choose to believe the second statements after he had been in
“custody” for a while…..either way, by giving two completely differing
statements, we must disregard them both, otherwise his first statement
is more credible.
Not the accusations by witnesses or the testimonies and
> cross-examinations, but the free admission by Mr. Blackmore’s heroes
> that they contributed to the death of innocent victims.
Heroes?
>
> Mr. Blackmore and his cohorts are attempting to empty a sea of
> truth with their thimble of
>
> This looks like the sloppy work done by a previous contributor to this
> conference. He was careless with his sources.
You apparently are careless with the truth.
rb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Thu Oct 24 08:20:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76668 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!baxter.net!n3tor.istar!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Blackmore jails Suchomel!
Date: 23 Oct 1996 20:41:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd18-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken McVay OBC) writes:
> Mr. Blackmore said to Mr. McFee:
>
> >Is Suchomel still alive?
> Gosh, Mr. Blackmore! I have seen Suchomel’s interview (in
> “Shoah”) several times, and, lacking your vision, had
> completely failed to realize that the curtains on the windows
> were part of a jail cell! And that apartment house that the
> van parked in front of – obviously, since Suchomel was, er, in
> his “cell,” it was all faked, right?
>
> DAMN! Those Wascally Joos are clever! Here they produce a film
> so sneaky and so professional that us Zionist Lackies and
> Lickspittles (Local 144) were completely fooled – we believed
> that Mr. Suchomel was actually sitting in his _living room_!
>
> Can you believe it?
>
> Do you do that a lot, Mr. Blackmore? Talk about things you
> haven’t a clue about? Perhaps you should watch `Shoah’ before
> commenting further on Suchmel’s “jail cell,” eh?
I watched Shoah years ago.
>
> Whaddamoran.
Thanks for the info. Sucomel was in his living room? Answer yes
or no, and then let’s discuss this little issue. He was not and
is not under arrest? He has or has not been charged with murder,
or he has and was released? Seeing that you are so chock-full
of information on the subject, why don’t you enlighten us all?
If Suchomel is alive, as you imply, wy don’t you send me his
address by e-mail. I would love to interview him.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:45 PDT 1996
Article: 76866 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Allied atrocities–stainless Stele forgery?
Date: 25 Oct 1996 08:55:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.845915454@access1>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd42-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> If you’re referring to the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I
> >> most certainly do condone them. Any more questions?
> >>
> >No. You gave the hypocritical answer I expected. Two-faced,
> >two standards, and a forked tongue. It’s amazing that you are blind
> >to your own double standard, but there it is in your own words for
> >the world to read. Why should I condemn you when you condemn
> >yours.
>
> Two standards? You compare the murder of prisoners of war to bombing
> an enemy who was waging an aggressive war. Your standards are that
> anything done by the Axis is forgivable, anything done by the Allies
> an atrocity.
>
>>>>
Don’t tell me what my standards are. If you wish to discuss the
murder of POW’s, let’s begin at Stalingrad….and you can inform
us why 90,000 Germans taken prisoner never made it back home.
Next we can discuss the 15,000 Poles murdered at katyn by your
humane “ally”, the Soviet Union. Next we can discuss the thousands
of German servicemen who perished in Eisenhower’s pow camps as
a result of starvation, neglect, and disease. Then we can discuss
the hundreds of Germans alleged to have committed suicide during
or shortly after their “interrogation”. Then let’s discuss the 60 Waffen
SS men shot to death in France before Malmedy EVER happened, as
was aired on a documentary on the Discovery Channel 2 months or so
ago. After we have discussed these points, I will be happy to discuss
yours……
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:45 PDT 1996
Article: 76867 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Allied atrocities–stainless Stele forgery?
Date: 25 Oct 1996 08:56:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd42-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Lou Coles <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> > > [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
> > >
> > > >I’ve never heard of this article and am not particularly bothered. Did you
> > > >hear the one about the Auschwitz inmate who was allowed to ice skate on a
> > > >lake ten miles away unsupervised? I thought not.
> > >
> > > Feel free to educate us all. I guess you just don’t want to tell us
> > > why you think someone’s memories of an after-dinner Rotary Club
> > > speech are adequate documentation to accuse the U.S. armed forces of
> > > crushing the testicles of 137 helpless German murderers of U.S.
> > > prisoners of war.
> > >
> > >>>>
> > Oh-so you maintain that 137 men shot the Americans at Malmedy?
> > I should think someone should go and arrest the crew who dropped
> > the atomic bomb on hundreds of thousands of civilians. What do
> > you think? Do you condone it?
>
> If Charles does not, I do.
>
>>>>
Well, that makes 2 hypocrites.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:46 PDT 1996
Article: 76868 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Behold the lie
Date: 25 Oct 1996 08:58:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd42-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # New figures of the dead at Auschwitz, taken from archives
> # in Moscow, indicate 70,000 deaths, 46,000 of them Jews.
>
> How odd, especially since the Frank-Gricksch report, written
> in mid-1943, states that 500,000 Jews were already killed
> in the camp.
>
> It was explained to you dozens of times that not only are
> these death lists partial, they only cover those who died
> after being admitted into the camp and given a serial
> number. Those who were selected as “unfit for work”, and
> murdered upon arrival, were not given a serial number
> and their names were not written down; it would have
> been a complete waste of time to write down the name
> of someone who was going to be dead in an hour or so,
> and to tattoo him/her with a serial number.
>
> Is it *so* difficult to understand?
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
It is not difficult to understand….it is just difficult
for you to prove.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:47 PDT 1996
Article: 76874 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bimko on the Bum
Date: 25 Oct 1996 09:53:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 419
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
This will be fun. posted/emailed
The readers of this thread get a splendid, typical and predictable
response by and advocate of hatred and obfuscation. See how rapidly
these deniers descend to name-calling, outrage and obvious lying when
faced by a polite but well-documented response to their attempts to
distort the facts.
They all start by posting a polite note, quoting sources and giving
references. They believe that nobody else has the books that they
quote, picking on obscure or hard-to-obtain references for their
attack.
[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
Let us not lose sight of the fact that the main perpetrators of
the gassings have admitted using these gas chambers. Blackmore
and his ilk are attempting to lay red herrings
There you go again, stealing my definitions. It is people
like you and Danny who plant red herrings all over the
place.
How very droll. Mr. Blackmore claims the “red-herring”
statement to be his. He adds plagiarism to his sins:
And you add silliness to yours. It is obvious that I began
posting this term recently and you and your ilk began
echoing the refrain. Of course it is a very old expression.
I didn’t claim to have invented it, silly man.
across the road some minor inconsistencies
Minor!? Inconsistencies!? Lies, are more like it.
Mr. Blackmore and fume and rage and stamp his little feet in the
dirt
Actually, I wear a size 10 shoe.
but that will not change the fact that he has distorted
testimony and added his own comments which are grossly incorrect.
People can decide that for themselves without Nizkor’s
little cheerleader.
He
refuses to accept court methodology relating to convergence of
evidence. In fact he pretended it wasn’t there to read. This is
another technique of the distortionist: pretend that the uncomfortable
is not there.
One need not distort Bimko’s lies, they are distorted enough.
in the testimony of witnesses who
were not only frightened and hungry, but who only had a
Frightened? Hungry? At the Belsen trial? Maybe…
Frightened that she might be charged with perjury
and hungry for blind vengeance…..
Vengeance?!? What could possibly be the witnesses’ grounds for
seeking veneance?
Oh, dear me? What COULD that possibly be?
To hear Mr. Blackmore and his ilk talk
about Auschwitz and Belsen, the people illegally incarcerated
and butchered there were on some sort of a lark.
Is this your opinion?
The inmates were hungry and frightened when they witnessed
the atrocities
What atrocities? That they were frightened I have no doubt
and do not deny.
They lived in fear of their lives on starvation diets
Most survivors from Auschwitz state that they were fed well
enough.
all the while witnessing killings, beatings, and general
mistreatment.
Usually by other prisoners…The SS were forbidden to
step closer than 10 paces to an inmate. In fact, SS
men were murdered on occasions by the inmates.
Minor inconsistencies in their testimony are to be
expected when acting as witnesses to events that took place
several years before the trial.
These LIES are not “minor inconsistencies”, but keep on
defending them-it makes you look bad to everyone except
your minions.
A “glimpse” of the “gassing” facilities”? Not quite-
she was given a grand tour of the “Black Museum”….
Mr. Blackmore’s obvious hatred and fevered imagination are
getting the best of him. In no place does the witness claim
to have been given a “grand tour” of the gas chambers. Mr.
Blackmore is challenged to document the exact amount of
time that the witness spent in the gas chamber. He can’t and
he won’t.
Readers should be warned
about this.
Readers should also be warned about THIS:
This perjuring witness testified to a figure of 4 million
gassed Jews at Auschwitz, as well as testifying that
a woman was a man and a man was a woman….all
this from an alleged doctor! Go figure……..
This question has been addressed in a previous communication.
Yes. The first one I posted, and the fact remains she is
and was a LIAR.
> Mr. Blackmore is re-heating old soup.
And it still tastes the same….
Curious minds can
> retrieve the posted notes and satisfy themselves on what
> was said. Mr. Blackmore chooses to ignore the posted
> evidence and make ad hominem responses.
Yes, I encourage people to read the notes and decide
for themselves, after hearing both sides of the issue.
That is the way things should be done.
>
> >>
> >> Mr. Blackmore is now resorting to the amonymous and “somebody told
> >> me,”
> >
> >I wrote: Someone sent me these observations to post and I did because
> >they are worthy of addressing. End of story, but Mike wishes to ascribe
> >his motives to other people.
> >
>
> Learned readers of this thread will disallow Mr. Blackmore’s
> protestations. When entrapped by the truth, deniers turn to ‘it is so
> because I say so’ or they invent an anonymous ‘someone’ to confirm
> their depressing and false allegations.
Very pathetic, indeed….but it serves a purpose…and a good one at
that…..this way people can watch you squirm and squiggle like
a little worm on a hook.
This reminds me of the Baron
> ploy when confronted with the writing of an old lady. Baron complained
> that others were decieving her. This was humorous when one considered
> that the very views of Mr. Baron could be found in the old lady’s
> book. What was Mr. Baron telling her. Who is directing Mr. Blackmore?
Who is directing you?
>
> >> undocumented canard. What a pity. If said “browser” had posted his
> >> comments on alt.revisionism, a discussion on the subject at hand
> >> would have some validity.
> >
> >Right. So they could be attacked like others? I think not.
>
> Uh oh! A thin-skinned denier that is afraid of being “attacked like
> others!” Is Mr. Blackmore flaunting his courage by taking all of the
> verbal brickabats that would otherwise be flung at the anonymous
> “somebody.” This simply does not stand up to scrutiny. It is much more
> likely that Mr. Blackmore has crated this “somebody” in order to
> deflect accurate and substantiated criticism.
I don’t abuse the confidence of people who have asked
to remain anonymous……Unlike you, I have a code of
honor.
>
> >>
> >> Br. Blackmore has regressed, as most deniers eventually do, to
> >> innuendo and hollow rhetoric.
> >
> >Talking about yourself again? That is all you have ever offered.
> >
>
> Mr. Blackmore now resorts to the Pee Wee Herman School of
> Rhetoric: ” I know you are but what am I?”
How odd that you should recognize this…….
>
> > The points that he attempts to make are
> >> totally unsupported by the documentation.
> >
> >What documentation? Let’s have it?
> >
>
> Mr. Blackmore has the documentation. One presumes that he is
> literate and enterprising enough to read the posts. Here he actually
> has the gall to ask me for the documentation to prove his point. What
> does this suggest?
Let me guess…..You don’t have it……..
>
> > Sadly, but in keeping with
> >> his custom Mr. Blackmore does not quote the exact testimony of the
> >> witness,
> >
> >I refer the readers to “The Belsen trial”. It is available in most
> >university libraries.
>
> Absolutely. Curious readers should compare what Mr. Blackmore
> leads us to believe what the witnesses are saying and what is
> written in black and white in the book.
Yes, people, refer to it, think about it, and reach a conclusion.
However, compare her comments with other testimony on the
subject as well.
>
> > It is not my intention nor ever was, to
> >reprint the whole testimony of these individuals. If you want to, go ahead.
> >I am concerned only with their credibility, so I post where they have
> >obviously lied.
> >
>
> Mr. Blackmore only posts fragmented pieces of the testimony and
> does so in a very misleading manner. He knows he is doing this.
I post only the obvious lies in her testimony. Why should I post anything
else?
>
> > nor doe he afford us the page numbers in which this
> >> accounting — mostly ficticious — appears.
> >
> >Nonsense. You lie with a straight face, Mike.
> >That much is clear. here are the page numbers:
> >67, 68.
>
> If Mr. Blackmore will take the trouble to review the documents posted
> he will find that he has quoted from pages other than 67 and 68.
Well, if you will take the trouble to admit that you and I have
different EDITIONS……which is a fact, as some of the wording
is different as well. In this event, I refer the readers simply to
the testimony of Ada Bimko, wherever it is.
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >She describes the building as brick. The area now said to have been
> >> >used for gas chambers is made of reinforced concrete, not brick.
> >>
> >> Mr. Blackmore is resorting to outright fabrication. What the text
> >> says is:
> >
> >(snip)
> >Wrong again, Mike. I merely posted what someone sent to
> >me.
> >
>
> Ah, yes, the mysterious “someone.” Sorry. Perhaps in the future Mr.
> Blackmore will verify the quality of the information he is re-posting.
> This is what *I* would do. Blindly posting someone elses distortions
> reminds one of the blind leading the blind.
You would be an authority on this, of course.
>
> > The witness states that the BUILDING was made
> >> of brick, and indeed it was. There are a great many photographs in
> >> the literature showing the construction of the Auschwitz crematoriums.
> >> These were constructed of BRICK.
> >
> >The Krema was of brick, the alleged gas chamber, which she is describing
> >was NOT made of brick. She lied. More of Mike”s “Dirty Dancing”.
> >>
> > This photo, one of several dozen in Pressac, shows the South
> >> and
> >> East sides of Krema IV.
> >
> >She wasn’t in Krema IV.
She lied. The alleged gas chambers were never made of brick
while she states they were. She also stated 4 million Jews were
gassed at Auschwitz by 1944. Lies, lies, lies.
> >
>
> Oh? Which Krema was she in? Does the witness state which
> of the crematoriums she visited. Not at all. Mr. Blackmore
> once again resorts to his red-herring technology.
>
> Not that it matters because _all_ the crematoriums in Auschwitz
> were constructed of brick. Mr. Blackmore was referred to one
> photograph which would serve as an example. If he would
> bother to look at Pressac’s book, or Dwork/van Pelt’s book
> as the more lucid readers of this post have done, he will
> recognize that brick was the material of choice.
Dirty dancing again. You chose an odd witness to defend
Mr. Curtis. Even Danny Keren backed off from her…..
>
>
>
> Not so. The caption clearly states that the rubble came from a gas
> chamber. But that is also irrelevant. The witness mentioned that
> the BUILDING was constructed of BRICK, not the GAS CHAMBER.
Wrong. And her whole description of the interior was fraudulent
anyway, as I have already proved with basic logic.
>
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> >And 24 dummy shower heads were supposed to convince 600 people
> >that these facilities were for them to take a shower? I think NOT.
>
> Mr. Blackmore thinks therefore he errs. What he thinks has nothing to
> do with the evidence.
What evidence? We are all waiting…..
Thinking something leads one to research and
> gather support for one’s suppositions. Deniers do not do this for this
> is work.
You do not do it for you know it doesn’t exist, therefore you
do what you do best-distort, lie, throw as much mud as you can,
and then pray that some of it will stick. Well, what we demand here
are rigorous standards of proof-not mud slinging.
>
> >These shower heads were probably destined for those workers who
> >were employed in the Krema or the morgue. Your interpretation
> >doesn’t make ANY sense.
>
> Mr. Blackmore can read Pressac and come to the same conclusion
> intelligent people have come to.
Pressac himself is having doubt, as I have recently learned.
Don’t lean too heavily on him, others of your ilk are already
beginning to shy away from him.
>
> >
> >There were no drains? A lie, again, because in the vast literature
> >abounding concerning the gas chambers it is said that the room had
> >to be washed down after every “gassing” due to the blood, body
> >fluids, and other residues.
>
> Some gas chambers had drains. Others did not. Mr. Blackmore is
> challenged to discover which did and didn’t.’This will probably
> another question Mr. Blackmore will ignore.
Caught you didn’t I?
> > As the ramp led DOWN into the alleged gas
> >chamber, one could harly imagine the residues being washed UP the long
> >ramp. So there HAD to be drains. Ergo, Bimko LIED.
>
> There was no ramp. Only stairs, and only in two of the Kremas.
> Which ones, Mr. Blackmore?
I have testimonies from your treasured witnesses that there was
indeed a ramp……do you still insist on maintaining this imposture,
or shall I embarrass you again.
>
> >>
> >
> >. Once he has done so and, of course, apologized to
> >>
> >> the readers of this group for the misleading and falacious statements
> >
> >It is you who needs to apologize or crawl away in shame……
> >
>
> More from the Pee Wee Herman School of Rhetoric.
Where you are apparently an instructor. I daresay Pee Wee
Herman would say less ridiculous things than you have over
the past few months.
>
> >> While he is doing this he might wish to have someone explain
> >> Avogadro’s principle, Dalton’s Law of Partial Pressures, and
> >> Graham’s Law of Diffusion.( Hint: “…the gas will tend to rise.” )
> >
> >No need.
>
> No need? Mr. Blackmore claims that HCN is lighter than air and
> will drift to the top of the ceiling. Shame! If this were so, he
> would find the air in his abode separated into caps of CO2, N2 and
> O2, forcing him to place his nose in the appropriate layer in order
> to survive.
More dirty dancing. I urge readers not to be distracted by it.
The gas is lighter than air and rises to the ceiling.
>
> >You have simply become caught up in the lies of
> >your perjuring witnesses again, and I will not be drawn in to
> >a non debate over issues which are designed prima facie to
> >draw attention away from the glaring lies.
> >
>
> Deniers usually react this way when entrapped. Mr. Blackmore
> really ought to become acquainted with the gas laws. Hot air
> and all!
Try di-gel, you need to get rid of some.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:48 PDT 1996
Article: 76881 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on Malmedy
Date: 25 Oct 1996 10:25:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd42-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> >
> > Mr. Edeikin, whose very profession produces contempt in most people.
> > Not quite. I have replied to Mr. Edeikin’s disinformation.
>
> With, it should be noted, a pack of outright lies.
>
> > You choose odd bed-fellows, Mr. Power. Instead of
> > seeking after truth you choose to pursue lies and
> > distortions. However, this is all you have, and you
> > must live with your lies if you make the choice to
> > propagate them.
>
> Coming from a person who was just caught is an outright lie.
>
> At this point you are fooling no-one except yourself.
>
> –YFE
>
>
>>>>
Keep fooling yourself-no one else takes you seriously.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:49 PDT 1996
Article: 76883 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Native Americans
Date: 25 Oct 1996 10:51:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
2. I would say that the Nazis treatment of the Jewish
people was similar to America’s treatment of Native Americans.
In other words,
No, in YOUR words……
they ruthlessly stripped them of their possessions and
land, treated them like animals, sent them on forced marches with
staggering death rates, and let disease kill them by the hundreds of
thousands. (The similarity ends in the camps, where the Nazis built
machines of mass murder, though of course you would deny the facts of
the matter.) Further, a significant segment of the population,
probably the majority, had not even enough sympathy with the victims
to raise their voices in protest.
Yes, there were similarities, as you say, though I’m sure you intended
connotations with which I could not agree. Both are monstrous crimes,
beyond the capacity of words to express.
You did just fine expressing it, though indeed I disagree
with the accusations you expressed.
The human capacity for
inhumanity knows no national boundaries. But does one lessen the
meaning or significance of the other? Of course not.
Whoever said that it did?
Protest under the Nazi regime was of course much more difficult than
protest in the American Colonies or the newly-formed U.S. of A.
Furthermore, the population of the Colonies and States was not
subjected to a torrent of anti-Indian propaganda in anything like the
way that the German population was.
Nonsense. Furthermore, both Indians and whites indulged in
horrific massacres.
(snip)
I would say the most important differences are: (1) Native Americans
were never subjected to forced labor (to my knowledge) on the scale
that the Nazis used their enemies.
They certainly were subjected to forced labor in South America and
Mexico on a massive scale.
(2) The technologies differed,
> allowing the Nazis to be much more efficient in their mass murder.
What mass murder do you refer to?
>
> Most importantly, (3) the Nazi slaughter took place not on a frontier
> being explored, but on land that had been civilized a thousand years
> prior; not of a remote, unseen, illiterate people, but of a people
> who for years had lived side-by-side with the aggressors in peace and
> fought side-by-side with them in war; and not in a time of discovery,
> but in a time of enlightenment and Kultur.
What area are you referring to? Poland? Soviet Russia?
The familiarity and
> modernity of the Nazi crime and its victims made shocking contrast
> with the hideous barbarity of its results.
The accusations are shocking. They have yet to be proven, and I can’t
see where the alleged acts of the nazis were more inhumane than the acts
of the Soviets or the other allies. The French were chopping heads like
they were apple picking during their revolution, and one of the most
common forms of execution throughout Europe at one time was drawing
and quartering. Refer to Daniel Mannix’s “History of Torture”. Certain
warlike Native American tribes used to gnaw off the fingers from a victim’s
hand and shove hot poles up the rectums of their unfortunate captives, who
were tied to torture stakes and tormented for an entire night before they
were finally put out of their misery. One of Stalin’s preferred
methos of execution was to have the eyes of his imagined
enemies gouged out. The dropping of the atomic bomb
upon innocent civilians was as great a crime as your alleged
gas chambers, and the victims died or lingered on in agony.
It was monstrous and inhuman.
>
> I might add something about theories of racial supremacy having been
> discredited by mainstream scientific circles by the time of the Nazis,
By whom? You have heard of C. Coon, Lothrop Stoddard, Morton,
Gobineau, etc. So what you write here is not a fact.
> but frankly I don’t know enough about the history of racial thought to
> be able to make such a claim. I suppose I should reread _The
> Mismeasure of Man_ when I find some free time.
Well, all right, you admit that you don’t enough about the subject.
I could refer you to a recently published book which you might find
edifying: “Race, the history of an idea in the west” by Ivan Hannaford,
John Hopkins University Press.
Or, does anyone have
> any suggestions for similar works? Respected authors only, please.
Done. He would be a respected author by your standards.
>
> For what it’s worth, I don’t see any essential moral difference
> between the Nazi policy of Lebensraum and the British colonies’ belief
> in Manifest Destiny.
I won’t argue with this opinion and would advise you to research Britains
treatment of India and its inhabitants.
True, in the Nazis’ case it was a _known_
> quantity of people who had to be killed, subjugated, or enslaved, but
> I don’t think that changes the quality of the moral crime, merely its
> dimension.
If you accept this premise, as you do….
Malice aforethought toward an unknown number of “savages”
> in an unknown land is quite the same as malice aforethought toward a
> known number of Poles, Slavs and Jews in familiar territory.
Or of Germans, as the case may be-wouldn’t you agree?
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:50 PDT 1996
Article: 76884 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Native Americans
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:01:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Laura Finsten <[email protected]> writes:
> I would recommend
>
> Pat Shipman 1994 “The Evolution of Racism”. Simon and Schuster.
> Jonathon Marks 1995 “Human Biodiversity: Genes, Race and History”,
> Aldine de Gruyter, especially Chapter 4 The History of Biology
> and the Biology of History.
> And maybe Marek Kohn 1996 “The Race Gallery: The Return of Racial
> Science”. Vintage Books. (I’ve just begun to read this.)
>
>
> “If I can’t dance….. I don’t want to be part of your revolution.”
> Emma Goldman
>
>
>
>>>>
“No one should have to dance backward all their lives.”
Jill Ruckelshaus
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:50 PDT 1996
Article: 76885 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:05:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
[a quote from Rascher’s letter to Himmler proposing the establishment
a gas chamber at Dachau like the one at Linz]
And of course you have a written response from Himmler concerning
the above. Don’t you? Do you? Need time to think about it?
I do not know if a response from Himmler office still exists, but I do
know that Himmler did not take the following actions in regards to one
of his doctors proposing to test poison gasses on human subjects. For
making the proposals, Himmler did not:
1)arrest Rascher
2) have Rascher committed as a lunatic
3) fire Rascher from his job
4) demote Rascher
Rascher continued for some time afterwards reporting the results of
his experiments on live human subjects. His two most famous
> experiments involved putting his subjects in a depressurized chamber
> to see when they would die, and, immersing his subjects in
> near-freezing water to see when they would die.
>
> Visit Rob Bennet’s excellent L’Chaim Project and take a virtual tour
> of Dachau for more details:
>
> http://www.charm.net/~rbennett/Revierbanacken.html
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta
> —
>
>>>>
As a matter of fact, Rascher WAS arrested by the SS,
imprisoned in Dachau, and executed.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:51 PDT 1996
Article: 76886 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Native Americans
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:00:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.846103919@access1>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
>
> >> 2. I would say that the Nazis treatment of the Jewish
> >> people was similar to America’s treatment of Native Americans.
>
> The guy does have a habit of putting his foot in it, doesn’t he?
> He thought he’d make me blanch when he compared the concentration
> camps to Andersonville. I guess the idea is that as an American
> I’m supposed to blindly support every atrocity committed by
> Americans throughout history, and so “understand” the Nazis’
> pecadillos….
Whoever said that besides you?
>
> >I would say the most important differences are: (1) Native Americans
> >were never subjected to forced labor (to my knowledge) on the scale
> >that the Nazis used their enemies.
>
> Catholic priest tried it, among others. Injuns always made lousy
> slaves. Escaped a lot, and died off to avoid work.
Sounds like a racist comment to me.
>
(snip)
>
> BTW, the smallpox blankets story which you may have heard probably
> never happened. It’s based on a proposal in a British officer’s
> letter in pre-Revolutionary times.
How interesting….much like Rascher’s letter……..
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:52 PDT 1996
Article: 76889 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Questions the Blackmore/Belling troll still refuses to answer…
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:07:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> > Note that all these questions have been answered over and over again
> > and Gandhi refuses to accept the answers he is given. I urge people
> > to access Deja News and read all my replies for themselves. Now, to
> > Mr. Gandhi-will you now admit that you grossly misrepresent my communications
> > to you without regard for truth or the explanations you have been given
> > over and over again.
>
> By all means, read Deja News. If someone is unable to find a relevant
> article, tell me and I will find it for you. Although you will not be able
> to find the posts where Mr. Blackmore answers the questions asked of him,
> because he has not. You will find his continual refusal to answer the
> questions, or, at best, you will find a article which contains little more
> than prevarication.
>
> With respect to the Blackmore/Belling Troll¹s claim above, I unequivocally
> state that I have told no lies, and have made no misrepresentations.
> Blackmore/Belling has not answered the questions of his statements (read
> lies) regarding the Simon Wiesenthal Center, nor will he answer the
> questions regarding his statements (again, read lies) about the Discovery
> Channel. He has on numerous occasions publically stated that he will not
> answer the questions.
>
> ——————-
> … war begins, I believe, in our hearts. And that is where it must end.
> (Hunthausen)
>
>>>>
His questions have been answered many times over-
they just don’t happen to be the answers that he would
like to have.
“There is only pain in resisting. Relax and yield.”
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:53 PDT 1996
Article: 76890 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Raven Lies
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:15:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 75
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
Chuck Ferree wrote:
Raven lies some more
Subject: Re: Black Liberators (fraud you say)
Sent: 10/22/96 4:18 PM
Received: 10/22/96 8:05 AM
From: Greg Raven, [email protected]
To: Chuck Ferree, [email protected]
Chuck Ferree wrote:
Chuck Ferree writes:
I just read your article regarding the so-called fraud involved with
Black Americans liberating Buchenwald and Dauchau. Maybe fraud is the
correct phrase, maybe not. Some of your statements are not true
however. For example, there was a gas chamber at Dachau, and it had
been used over the years to gas certain inmates.
rblackmore writes:
How is that Chuck, seeing that it wasn’t even allegedly COMPLETED
until the END of 1944!
This has been
confirmed by official reports written by SHAEF officers who I flew
into both Buchenwald and Dachau. Buchenwald on the third day after
> > it’s liberation, Dachau on April 29th. 1945, the day it was liberated.
Well, so much for SHAEF’s credibility.
> > I witnessed the massacre of the German guards, and the killing of
> > other guards and inmates who were thought to have been collaborators
> > with the SS. I don’t know how many guards were killed by the machine
> > guns of Lt. Bushyhead, maybe 500, but I believe many less than that,
> > closer to 200.
> >
> > In my opinion, your story is not too bad, except to those of us who
> > know who you are, you use this incident to discredit other Holocaust
> > proven historical facts. I’ve read your other denier stuff, and I know
> > you both lie if it suits your purpose.
rb writes:
As do people who believe in your version of the Holocaust.
> >
> Raven says:s
>
> I’d sure love to see these reports, as would the experts who are in
> charge of Dachau now. They say that no one was gassed at Dachau.
> Testimony of German prison labors after the war indicates that the CIC
> ordered the construction of a “gas chamber,” which was subsequently torn
> down.
>
> If I remember correctly, you at one point claimed that the delousing
> chamber, depicted in many photos, was actually a homicidal gas chamber,
> which of course it was not.
>
> If it was used even a few times to gas humans, it sure as hell wasn’t a
> suana. And I know it was used to gas humans.
rb writes:
And you are one of them, right?
>
>
> —
> Greg Raven ([email protected])
> PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
>
>>>>
Let’s not omit Auerbach’s “Hanging Tree” nor the infamous
“Pool of Jewish Blood”……….
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:53 PDT 1996
Article: 76891 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:16:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 23 Oct 1996 20:47:28 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> >Later. BTW, I also, am an authority on this subject. I would
>
>
> Your use of the word ‘also’ implies you are an authority on another subject.
> What, pray tell, would that be? We know it isn’t the factual representation
> of history.
>
> It has been my observation that those who are compelled to declare their own
> virtue usually do not know shit from shinola. Who with an IQ above an
> ordinary garden slug considers you to be an authority on anything other than
> misrepresentation?
>
>>>>
Seeing that your intelligence seems to be even lower than
a garden slug, we won’t bother asking you.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:54 PDT 1996
Article: 76892 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 25 Oct 1996 11:19:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >2. I would say that the Nazis treatment of the Jewish
> >> >people was similar to America’s treatment of Native Americans.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh, please, tell me about this history. Let’s start at the very
> >> beginning. BTW, the beginning is the 16th century coast.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Later. BTW, I also, am an authority on this subject. I would
> >suggest that you start a new discussion group. However, I doubt
> >whether we will have differing opinions on this particular subject.
> >
>
> What is Mr. Blackmore (not his real name) not an authority on? Mr.
> Blackmore is fluent in German, an expert researcher, an authority on
> the Holocaust and now and authority on Native American History. Mr.
> Blackmore seems to be that rare individual who knows everythin, but in
> the end is shown to know nothing. Another attempt at comparison bites
> the dust.
>
>
>
>>>>
My posts must be rather effective. Thank you for the
unintended complements.
“The world reflects what you need to see, not only what YOU
want to see.”
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:55 PDT 1996
Article: 76896 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Survivor” Abraham Glinowieski-Beaten by the Invisible Man
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:06:59 GMT
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[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
Here is some more “survivor testimony” i.e., more LIES< taken from “The Belsen Trial” pages 103, 105: Look at these people and see whom you can recognize? – I etc Also I collected a pair of jackboots and for this I received 25 strokes. Mr. Blackmore’s utter lack of humanity is patently displayed. Is he a believer in this sort of physical punishment? Mr. G was punished for stealing. Mr. Blackmore needs to explain how he comes to this assumption. “Collected” was simply a euphemism for stealing. Who knows what else he did…steal food perhaps from other hungry inmates. Mr. Blackmore is now attempting to his own additions to the printed testimony. Yes, seeing that he is a self-confessed thief, I must now question all of his actions. As you know these types of offenses were rather common in KZ’s. If anyone considers the conditions the inmates were forced to live with, Conditions varied at different camps and at different times. He was a thief as well as a liar. And if I told you that the man was a rapist, you would say, “But the poor man was SO deprived from womanly companionship for so long…….” then getting something from others in order to survive is more than a possibility Absolutley-and from whom did he steal these items? Another needy prisoner? Of course this causes the audience to consider if it is moral to steal a crumb from those who have in order to survive. Unless you are stealing it from those who are supposed to be your companions. _Les Miserables_ presents just such a quandary. This is a whole other issue and goes to human psychology within concentration camps in Nazi Germany or even in the Soviet Union for that matter. This is acceptable. Also, I do not believe in corporal punishment. Now, do you approve of the way Germans were interrogated and mistreated by the allies? Mr. Blackmore is now shifting the subject to another that is not a part of the discussion concerning the treatment of human beings placed in camps for no other reason than that they were Polish, Jewish, Russian, or Germans who disagreed with an authoritarian government. Now notice how Mr. Curtis avoided answering the question because he simply cannot bear to admit that germans were as mistreated as every other nationality during the war. The first picture is titled “One of the victims of typhus inside a hut.” What has this to do with the credibility of Mr. G? Mr. Blackmore seems to think that by calling this man a liar that the mere appliance of Mr. Blackmores wishes makes him so. Again, what has this to do with mr. G’s credibility? Also, typhus was there after the german administration surrendered. More “dirty dancing”. It is pretty clear that the English thought that the dirty dance was performed by the Germans. Mr. Blackmore seems to think that a situation of massive disease caused mostly by unsanitary conditions can be cleared up in moments. I never said that, did I? This picture shows an emaciated woman a babushka tied around her head. Would Mr. Blackmore liked for his grandmother to be treated this way? Perhaps she was….. Mr. Blackmore’s grandmother is probably pretty disappointed in his efforts to justify these particular treatments of innocent human beings in order to justify his Nazi heros. How do you know anything about my grandmother? More so had she been innocent of any crime? My grandmother never committed any crimes. Neither did the majority of the camp inmates. Mr. Blackmore seems to ahve forgotten that fact. Liar. Thousands upon thousands of these inmates were common criminals, and behaved as such as soon as the allies made the mistake of releasing them as a mob. Mr. Curtis would like to avoid that issue. Also, these are obvious ploys desgined to elicit an emotional response in the reader, rather than deal with the lies of Mr. G. Oh my! We are dealing with the distortions of Mr. B. at the moment who has failed to show that Mr.Glinowieski lied. No. “We” are not dealing with any “distortions” from Mr. B. because I do not distort. Stop trying to change the subject, which happens to be Mr. G. The second picture is entitled “Utter squalor prevails in the living quarters.” This is an admitted fact. It was also testified to at the Belsen Trial that many of the inmates themselves were responsible for much of the filth and squalor prevailing in the camp. Mr. Blackmore seems to think that these inmates had complete control over their situations. However, he is free to present such testimony for us all to read _in contxt_. It is in the record. read it. I have never posted a bad reference yet. Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would accept that his mother, daughter or wife should be treated this way. More attempts to elicit emotional responses. Deal with Mr. G. I guess it is acceptable to Mr. Balckmore that his immediate family be treated in the fashions we have been discussing. Guess whatever you like, simply deal with Mr. G. and his credibility. THAT is the subject of this discourse. The photographs facing page 105 are equally dramatic if, for nothing else, because of the obvious contrast: The men appear to be in good physical condition and well-fed And? They weren’t ill with typhus or enteritis or dysentery. We have to note what Mr. Blackmore has SNIPPED . The persons under discussion here are male S.S. guards who had clean water and food. They were not ill and how do you know how much water and food they had? And what would you expect these few people to do with their food-share it with 40,000 people? >
> > If
> >they were, they would resemble the inmates who became ill, and
> >who were recently shipped to Belsen from other camps, where they
> >brought the illness with them and carried it into the camp.
>
> Maybe they should not have been shipped to any camps at all!
Who can say? We would need to examine all 40,000 cases
individually.
>
> >>
> >> The second picture is titled: “S.S. women were also made to
> >> work [presumably by their Britsh captors – comment mine].
> >> These women were the equivalent of the man for brutality.
> >
> >Let’s discuss it. perhaps some of them were cruel. perhaps some of
> >the inmates were cruel as well. there were many common criminals
> >in these camps.
>
> This isn’t an historical discussion but rather total speculation on
> Mr. Blackmore’s part.
No. it isn’t. Read the figures in Kogons Theory and Practice
of Hell as well as other sources which list the huge numbers
of criminals in these camps.
We do not need to “perhaps” very much any longer
> if we use the data available.
Well, start using it then.
>
> >
> >> The picture shows five women (and the half-hidden face of
> >> what appears to be a man), all of whom are fine specimens
> >> of Aryan ‘beauty’.
> >
> >Is this supposed to be an ethnic slur?
> >
> >Well-dressed in their uniforms, these
> >> ladies look quite fit and well-fed.
> >
> >Perhaps you would prefer to see them starving? Would you want that for
> >your mother or sister?
>
> Mr. Blackmore seems to think the he is being clever. If there were a
> truly disasterous situation, then all would be in pretty poor shape.
> It is pretty clear who was in the worst shape and that who is the
> inmates.
If you would take the trouble to READ once in a while, you
would discover that the majority of these people were sent to
the camp from other camps during the final weeks of the war,
and were already seriously ill when they arrived. It is curious
that the prisoners in Camp 2 in Belsen were not bad off in
comparison with the newer arrivals. Be sure to READ the
material before you reply to this.
>
> >
> > Two of these young ladies
> >> appear to have been, if one can employ a local colloquialism,
> >> “hit with an ugly stick.”
> >
> >So it is an ethnic slur after all. Mike’s old double standard.
>
> Mr. Blackmore is now trying to project his problems onto me. I do not
> share Mr. Blackmore’s problems. Neither is he addressing very many of
> the issues brought out in my post.
When have you ever answered one of my questions directly?
BTW, what problems are you referring to?
>
> >>
> >> When he is quite finished with these pictures, perhaps he can turn
> >> to the photographs
> >
> >I have seen them all and I find it abhorrent, but these terrible
> >conditions are not the fault of Kramer or his staff. The fault lies
> >with higher authorities as well as in the catastrophic conditions
> >produced by the war and allied bombing in germany.
>
> Reminds one of Eichmann who always had another to blame other than
> himself.
Oh-now I am “Eichmann”, along with all the other epithets
you have called me. Well, if that’s the best you can do, there
is nothing to add…..
Actually, it reminds me of most politicians today who always
> blame the other guy for their failures.
What politicians are you referring to? Actually it reminds me
of you blaming me for your inability to respond to my arguments.
Note also Mr. Blackmore’s
> efforts to deflect the argument away from the subject at hand by
> referring to Allied bombing.
It is directly related, even though it suits your purposes
better if it wasn’t.
>
> >>
> >> Glinowieski’s testimony continues:
> >
> >Finally!
> >>
> >> [Page 104]
> >>
> >> “What do you know about Weitgartner? – I worked with my
> >>
> > I was not
> >> allowed to se my brother. Later on he died. (At this point the witness
> >> broke down.)”
> >
> >If this is true,
>
> Evidence for it not being true will be provided by Mr. Blackmore.
Of course, seeing that YOU never post the truth.
>
> > then Weingartner should have been punished appropriately,
> >but we still need to hear his version of this incident. Also, Mr. G. has
> >already been demonstrated to be a thief and a fabricator, so I expect
> >there was more to this than meets the eye.
>
> Mr. Blackmore will make up for us what doesn’t immediately meet the
> eye.
If it exists, I surely shall.
>
> >>
> >> >Cross examined by Major Winwood, pages 105, 106:
> >> >
> >> >Winwood: You mentioned an incident in October
> >> >or November, 1943,
> >
> >> >A: No, it is not true.
> >
> >Well, it is true. He lied and was caught lying.
>
> Mr. Blackmore stomps his little feet.
Why should I stomp my little feet? All you did was quote the
liar again.
>
> >> >
> >> >Q: In the statement you made to a British officer at Belsen,
> >> >why did you not mention this very painful incident?
> >> >
> >> >A: Because only photographs of the S.S. men were
> >> >shown to me and I was asked to say whether I could
> >> >not accuse any of them?”
> >> >
> >> >End of Quotes.
> >> >
> >> >Ha! Read it for yourselves. Another liar.
> >snip
> >> >
> >> >”If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you
> >> >believe the message?”
> >>
> >> It is quite possible that the witness was mistaken about the date.
> >> Let us analyse the witnesses words:
> >
> >He stated quite emphatically that he remembered this incident. he
> >was a liar attempting to incriminate Kramer for something he could
> >not possibly have done.
>
> Mr. Blackmore stomps his little feet in the effort to whitewash his
> Nazi hero.
The only stomping being done here is by you. You bit
off more than you could chew and now you find the
taste to be unpleasant….relax….it is your own little foot
in your rather big mouth…..
>
> >>
> >> [Page 107]
> >>
> >> “[…] As a result of typhus do you find difficulty in
> >> remembering what you have said in the statement? – I remember
> >> everything but not the details.”
> >
> >He remembered the details of his lie distinctly.
> >>
> > fact that the witness and Kramer _did_ coincide in Auschwitz for
> >> a considerable period.
> >
> >Dirty dancing. Mr. G. lied and you don’t have the integrity to admit it.
>
> Mr. Blackmore stamps his little feet and attacks my character. Quite
> an argument by one so knowledgable in everything.
Galls you doesn’t it?
>
> >>
> >>
> > the
> >> admissions by Kremer, Hoessler, Kleim and others that prisoners
> >> under their care were sent to the gas chambers and exterminated. In
> >> the final analysis, this is the part of the testimony that deniers
> >> dread.
> >
> >In his first statement kramer denied that there ever were gas chambers.
>
> Of course he did. Most criminals deny the obvious.
Another tired old cliche. The innocent can never deny
when they have been falsely accused, is this what you are
telling us, Mr. Curtis?
>
> >You choose to believe the second statements after he had been in
> >”custody” for a while…..either way, by giving two completely differing
> >statements, we must disregard them both, otherwise his first statement
> >is more credible.
> >
>
> Mr. Blackmore stomps his little feet. On thing Mr. Blackmore does have
> going for him are his unsubstantiated opinions.
My opinions seem to be much more logical than the arguments
which you offer—which are NONE-except to say that I am
stomping my little feet…..
>
> > Not the accusations by witnesses or the testimonies and
> >> cross-examinations, but the free admission by Mr. Blackmore’s heroes
> >> that they contributed to the death of innocent victims.
> >
> >Heroes?
>
> A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose or who has
> sacrificed his or who life. Hero.
Heroes?
>
> >>
> >> Mr. Blackmore and his cohorts are attempting to empty a sea of
> >> truth with their thimble of
Cohorts? Are you talking to me?
> >>
> >> This looks like the sloppy work done by a previous contributor to this
> >> conference. He was careless with his sources.
> >
> >You apparently are careless with the truth.
>
> Mr. Blackmore has been shown to be careless with his sources, quotes,
> and research methods
Who has shown this? Certainly not you.
. One wonders if Mr. Blackmore knows what
> historical truth is.
If I don’t, I will never learn from the likes of you.
“The distractions you created to cope clutter your
consciousness.”
rb
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:56 PDT 1996
Article: 76899 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Survivor” Abraham Glinowieski-Beaten by the Invisible Man
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:20:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
Here is some more “survivor testimony” i.e., more LIES< taken from “The Belsen Trial” pages 103, 105: Glinowieski: Kramer caught me once in Auschwitz, about November, 1943, when I was in possession of a small piece of bread and a little margarine. Also I “collected” (Quotation marks mine-rb) a pair of jackboots and for this I received 25 strokes.” Cross examined by Major Winwood, pages 105, 106: Winwood: You mentioned an incident in October or November, 1943, when you received 25 strokes from Kramer at Auschwitz. Do you not agree that we still had to wait a matter of five months after this date before Kramer ever came to Auschwitz? A: No, it is not true. > >
> >Q: In the statement you made to a British officer at Belsen,
> >why did you not mention this very painful incident?
> >
> >A: Because only photographs of the S.S. men were
> >shown to me and I was asked to say whether I could
> >not accuse any of them?”
> >
> >End of Quotes.
> >
> >Ha! Read it for yourselves. Another liar.
>
> What definition of “liar” do you use? Simply someone who says
> something untrue? But how is that different from an error?
Thhis witness had ample opportunity to retract a statement
which he made that definitely placed Kramer at Auschwitz
at a particular date. He was emphatic about this date, even
when told that Kramer was never at the camp during the time
indicated. I cannot think for Mr. G., so I do not know his
motives in adhereing to a proveable untruth. Perhaps
he thought that if he backed down from the date in question,
he would then appear to be a liar. He had an option to choose
for error. He did not take it, so I do not give him the benefit
of the doubt today.
>
> However, if the definition is (as I use) someone who _deliberately_
> and _knowingly_ says something untrue, or who has good and sufficient
> reason to know that what they said is untrue, then you cannot prove that
> the witness was lying. Dates and visual identifications, especially a
> year or more after the fact, are suspect even without intent to lie.
Except that this witness was adamant about the time and the place.
After he gave this false testimony he was more careful about
assigning specific dates to events he claimed to have witnessed.
>
>
> >By the way,
> >I referred to the Auschwitz Chronicle regarding the months
> >and years of Kramer’s service at Auschwitz. the result?:
> >
> >”In 1944 he returned to Auschwitz as Commander of
> >Birkenau but was transferred in November of that year
> >to Bergen-Belsen in the same function.” Page 816.
>
> Excuse me? The above text says he _returned_ to Auschwitz. That
> implies he was there a first time. What were those dates? Didn’t the
> Auschwitz Chronicle give them?
Yes, but they did not coincide with the date given by Mr. G.
>
>
> >Another day, another liar.
> >
> >”If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you
> >believe the message?”
>
> Please reread my series of “Revisionist Def Comedy Jam” postings.
> Then get back to me on whether you really still want to use that as a rule
> of inference. I can always add more to the series if you like. Or even
> if you don’t like.
It doesn’t disturb me as I have indicated that both sides sometimes
engage in the same tactics, either knowingly or unwittingly. Sometimes
it is merely a process of learning, I believe.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:57 PDT 1996
Article: 76900 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Secret Lie in Nazi Occupied Europe
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:23:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> > > Which has what to do with the historicity of the Holocaust?
> > >
> > I will get to everything in due time.
> > rb
>
> In other words… “I have no idea. I was just trolling. But give me a few
> days alone with the bottle, and I’m sure I’ll think of something.”
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
>
>
>>>>
I don’t drink.. Good night, Gracie.
rb
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:57 PDT 1996
Article: 76905 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Secret Lie in Nazi Occupied Europe
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:32:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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[email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
Big fucking deal. You won’t find a single person posting to this group
who doesn’t agree with you that the Soviet government was chock full of
liars from start to finish.
Mr. Anderson, please point out where I have EVER said one
word my belief in a Jewish conspiracy?
If you believe that the Holocaust is a gigantic hoax, then I can
draw only one of two conclusions: 1) You believe that this hoax
has been carried out by the largest, most powerful conspiracy in
the history of the world, entailing precise control over the words
and actions of thousands of people and such terrible means of
revenge that not even one of its participants has ever spoken out
about it, in which case you are mad, or 2) You believe that this
hoax happened all by itself, sort of by accident, in which case you
are… well, mad.
My answer is that you are wrong on both counts. Try
again, and better luck next time.
Personally, I think the question is moot, because I don’t think you
believe for one moment that the Holocaust didn’t happen. I think
you’re lying in the service of a political agenda.
Wrong again. I think that your version of the Holocaust didn’t
happen.
The
Western judges at Nuremberg, in fact, didn’t believe the Soviet story
about Katyn, and that’s why, contrary to your lies, not one German was
ever convicted by the IMT for the Katyn massacre.
OK, have it your way. Then please answer why they never condemned
the Soviets for the atrocity publicly–lacking a little “moral” courage,
wouldn’t you think?
Yeah, I do think so, actually. What’s your point?
It should be obvious.
Stalin’s second atrocity against the Polish people
was to have deliberately withheld his forces from assisting the Polish
Home Army when they rebelled against the German Occupation in 1944.
Tens of thousands of Poles died while Stalin chuckled.
Uh-huh. Stalin was a nasty, evil fella, and neither I nor anybody
else on this group has ever said otherwise
That’s nice…..
–and yet you keep jumping
out here with these descriptions of his atrocities, as if you expect
us to get all red in the face and bellow “Lying Imperialist Swine!
It wouldn’t surprise me. Apparantly all of you have been
missing the point I have been trying to make all these
months, and I guess I will have to continue until one of
you DOES get the point.
> Defame the memory of People’s Hero Stalin, will you?” Mr. Belling,
> I AM NOT A STALINIST.
I never suggested that you were.
So far as I know, not one regular poster to
> this group is a Stalinist. Baiting us with the misdeeds of Uncle
> Joe will get you nowhere.
No one is baiting you.
>
> : Give it up, Mr. Belling. All you have are cheap, transparent lies, and
> : > there are plenty of people here to call you on them. Go post your
> : > tripe on alt.white-power.ranger, whaduyasay?
> :
> : Not until you admit that your version of the Holocaust is the
> : biggest fraud on God’s created earth. It really galls you that a
> : non-racist person like myself doesn’t believe in your fabrications,
> : doesn’t it?
>
> I don’t think you’re non-racist, so the question is academic.
Well, your opinion in this case is based upon total ignorance,
which is a typical sign of a bigoted person.
>
> : But I am only one person-there are millions of others from
> : every race, creed, and ethic group who also disbelieve.
>
> Yeah? Where are they, Mr. Belling?
Do you expect me to give you names and addresses?
There are millions who believe in your version of the
Holocaust as well, but that is slowly but surely changing….
>
> : I may be
> : one little flea on a big dog’s back, but I’m sure keeping you itchin….
>
> No, not really. As frauds and liars always do, you’ve begun
> self-destructing. Of late, you’ve gotten so transparent and
> incompetent that I rarely reply to you at all anymore.
Not at all. I am a very persistent person, and am not
self-destructive. I enjoy life and people. Which makes you
wrong again. You haven’t done so well with this little quiz.
Better luck next time.
>
“Break the faith, baby.”
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:58 PDT 1996
Article: 76906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A typical false eyewitness: Filip Muller, the plagiarist
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:33:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] Oct 1996
> 08:02:36 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> [deleted]
>
> :>> :> The witnesses, including Hilberg, spoke. In the end, the cause
> :>> :>lost.
> :>>
> :>> The antisemitic Moron is wrong as usual. The validity of Hilberg’s testimony
> :>> was never cast in doubt, despite a bullying and indecent attempt by Zuendel’s
> :>> lawyer, fellow denier Doug Christie. The only witness who was completely
> :>> discredited by the court was Moron’s hero Fred Leuchter, who was exposed for
> :>> the fraud and liar that he is.
>
> :>I have in my possession a letter personally written by Mr.
> :>Mueller, and I will post it soon…..
>
> Which has precisely what to do with the validity of Hilberg’s testimony not
> being cast in doubt? Or with the “revisionist” darling Leuchter having to
> admit that he was a liar and a fraud?
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Nothing.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:59 PDT 1996
Article: 76909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Add Yale Edeiken to the Discovery Channel
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:42:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
[email protected] writes:
Apparently what’s wrong with you is worse than what is wrong
with me. Fool, my point was, how many of the 4,000,000 given
by the Polish Commission referred to non-Jews specifically?
Learn something, little boy. You wer caught in a lie
No, Mr. E., unlike you, I do not lie.
. Now you are
trying to squirm out of it.
There is nothing to squirm out of. You defend the lie, I deny it.
>
>
> > If
> > you break it down, you will see that the OVERWHELMING majority
> > of these faked figures were still claimed to be Jews.
>
> Prove it. Give us the Polish representations of this.
Do what you tell me to do. get the bookl and read it. Perhaps you
will find it with those “autopsy” and “toxicological” reports from
Dr. Larson which you claimed to have.
>
> > Also, here is the figure given by the Jewish author Nathan Ausubel
> > in his widely disseminated book, “The Pictorial History of the Jewish people”
> > which went through more than 11 editions and repeated the same
> > lie over and over again:
>
> You have found a single source making that statement. The fact is
> the the most widely read books and references including the Encyclopedia
> Judiaca and “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” do not state that number.
Thanks for admitting that the author and the publishers of this
book were liars. More on this later.
>
>
> > BTW, I win so many victories on alt.revisionism that I have no
> > need to “crow” about it. It is only dyed in the wool fanatics like
> > yourself who refuse to budge an inch, even when your nose is
> > shoved in the truth.
>
> You are deluding yourself.
Whatever gets you through the night. I wouldn’t want to be
responsible for any indigestion or heartburn you might have…
>
> Now answer the real question: were you involved in the forgeries . .
> .or were you just blowing hot air when you implied you were?
No, I wasn’t involved in forgeries. What are you talking about anyway?
Giwers Moshe Posts? I have better things to do with my time.
rb
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:01:59 PDT 1996
Article: 76911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Add Yale Edeiken to the Discovery Channel
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:45:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
>
> [deleted]
>
> :>BTW, I win so many victories on alt.revisionism that I have no
> :>need to “crow” about it. It is only dyed in the wool fanatics like
> :>yourself who refuse to budge an inch, even when your nose is
> :>shoved in the truth.
>
> Do you always get like this just before you depart? You did in your last
> incarnation as well.
>
> And you think alt.revisionism is all about winning and losing?
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Since when did you ever care about what I think?
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:00 PDT 1996
Article: 76912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:48:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >> > [email protected] writes:
>
> >>
> >> > >
> > You are the one who needs
> > to buttress your accusations with a panoply of lies and
> >distortions. You are the liar, for you promised
> >toxicological reports allegedly taken of gassed victims
> >and Dachau then failed to produce them
> >
>
> No. He told you where you could get up and go find them.
>
>
>
>>>>
Never-Never land? Sorry, I couldn’t find it.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:01 PDT 1996
Article: 76913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:53:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd41-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon <[email protected]> writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> > > Brian Harmon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> [..]
>
> >
>
What you call a lie was simply human error due to the fact
that I was relying upon memory until I found the source with
the inscription. At any rate, I was not off base, as I have
already explained under another post. This is certainly not the
format for PRECISE documentation, as the postings of both
sides amply prove. We all do our best with what we happen to
have, so allow me the same courtesy you extend to yourselves.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:01 PDT 1996
Article: 76914 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Add Yale Edeiken to the Discovery Channel
Date: 25 Oct 1996 12:46:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-035.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord McFee)
> wrote:
>
> >In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
>
> >[deleted]
>
> >:>BTW, I win so many victories on alt.revisionism that I have no
> >:>need to “crow” about it. It is only dyed in the wool fanatics like
> >:>yourself who refuse to budge an inch, even when your nose is
> >:>shoved in the truth.
>
> >Do you always get like this just before you depart? You did in your last
> >incarnation as well.
>
> >And you think alt.revisionism is all about winning and losing?
>
> Sure it is. Didn’t you get the coffee mugs and ball caps yet?
>
> Too bad there aren’t any really good prizes like TV sets or A NEEEW
> CAAARR!!
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta
> —
Why? Do you need one?
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:02 PDT 1996
Article: 76916 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:01:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd41-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
> >
> > # Nope! There existed certain SS officers who were
> > # executed SOLEY on the basis of mistreating Jewish
> > # inmates alone.
>
> > Name them. All those given by “rblackmore” were executed for
> > other reasons. One of them, Goeth, which “rblackmore” claimed
> > was executed by the SS, was actually tried and executed by
> > the Poles after the war.
>
> I would not be surprised if there were not a few disciplined for
> maltreating inmates; I would be very surprised if the victims were Jews. I think
> that we are looking at the “revisionist” bait and switch that Baron has pulled a
> couple of times. There were many inmates at concentration camps that were not
> of the groups for which murder was intended — political prisoners and common
> criminals. Especially in the early years of the concentration camps there was an
> effort to “re-educate” these type of prisoners and it could be expected that these
> prisoners were treated less brutally.
>
> Segev, in “Soldiers of Evil,” argues that one of the reasons that the
> Death’s Head soldiers were as brutal as they were when the KZ became large
> killing and slave labor factories, was that they gradually became inured to an
> increasing level of brutality over the years.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
>From what I read Goeth was arrested by the SS. Perhaps
the source was in error. If so, please provide another source
for this. Grabner and others in the political department at Auschwitz
were also under arrest or about to be arrested, and Hoess was
under investigation as well. Also, in my recent post, Papa Eiche
speaks I have another reference. And of course there was Koch
and members of his staff. There were many others as well.
Murder was prohibited in the Third Reich-and this included
murder of Jews as well.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:03 PDT 1996
Article: 76922 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:31:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>
>
> Mr. blackmore is stomping his little feet again.
Not to your music.
>
> > It is you who should be feeling ridiculous, as
> >your advocates have always snipped and quoted from Hoess
> >whenever it supported their twisted and deranged interpretation
> >of the Holocaust. You and your crowd are losing the argument
> >day by day, and the sad thing is, you don’t even seem to notice.
> >Just like the lemmings…….
>
> Seems like Mr. Blackmore is happy to declare victory despite his
> failure to connect what he presents with any kind of historical fact.
Sounds like you are talking about yourself again. You really
ought to get checked out by a doctor.
>
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:03 PDT 1996
Article: 76923 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:28:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> You guys are desperate.
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Is that what you think? We aren’t desperate at all. Hoess’s
testimony is worthless. It is trash no matter where or when
he gave it. It is useless as a source of confirmation for
your version of the Holocaust.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:04 PDT 1996
Article: 76925 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:33:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
>
> # Hoess writes the Sonderkommando went to work to remove bodies
> # after the gassing, “immediately” (no airing out!)
>
> Liar. He explicitly says that ventilation was used.
>
> # Hoess admits he was “assigned” to write the
> # “extemporaneous” memoirs!
>
> And the Soviets and the Poles also told him to write that
> their estimate for the number of victims is three time more
> than the real number? Now why would they “force him” to write
> something like that?
>
> And why would they “force him” to write that the
> Polish and Soviet POW’s behaved in a despicable manner
> among themselves?
>
> Surely, even someone like you must be able to see that it
> makes no sense?
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
Nothing makes sense in the strange world of Holocaust
defense.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:05 PDT 1996
Article: 76926 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:38:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
(The usual tripe)
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
This guy could be given evidence on a silver platter and he’d
still babble some incomprehensible gibberish. Gradually it
was disclosed to me that this man is a fool.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:05 PDT 1996
Article: 76927 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where have all the soldiers gone?
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:40:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> [email protected] writes:
> >>
> >
> >> # Wonder what happened to those thousands
> >> # of human beings?
> >>
> >> I assume many of them died in Soviet captivity. Just like
> >> the approximately 3 million Soviets who died in Nazi captivity.
> >
> >Do you have proof 3 million Soviet prisoners of war died? That
> >conflicts with Stalin’s statements to Churchill and Truman at Potsdam
> >that 5 million Soviet troops died during the war, as opposed to 3.5
> >-4 million Germans.
>
> Here is your free reading lesson for the day: “troops” is not the same
> thing as “prisoners of war.” Three million prisoners of war who died plus
> two million soldiers killed in action without being taken prisoner = five
> million troops. No conflict. All clear now?
> —
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
>
>>>>
I don’t buy it, just like I don’t buy the fake figure
of 20 million Soviet casualties, and don’t patronize
me.
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:06 PDT 1996
Article: 76928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore lies
Date: 25 Oct 1996 13:44:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > In a recent correspondence
> > with me you indicated that Nizkors comments were rather terse and
> > superficial,
>
> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>
> > This is another, um, error. I never said any such thing.
>
> > I would now like to ask for
> > your permission to publish the record of our discussions, so that people
> > may know which of us is correct and which of us is incorrect. May I
> > have that permission?
>
> “rblackmore” has informed me in email that I may _not_ have that
> permission.
>
> After sufficient time to review our correspodence, he has not retracted
> his error. Neither has he responded to my correction except with
> belligerence. So I am now calling that error deliberate, i.e. a lie.
>
> I will of course have nothing further to say to “rblackmore” in email;
> why would I want to privately discuss anything with someone who will lie
> publicly about what I supposedly said, refuse to allow the record to be
> cleared, and refuse to retract his lie?
>
> Posted; courtesy copy emailed; please reply publicly.
> —
> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> [email protected] Co-Webmaster of https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Say what you like, it is of no special concern to me.
Belligerence? What an odd word to use……..
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76946 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 25 Oct 1996 14:21:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad71-178.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (ibokor) writes:
“rblackmore” wrote to someone:
Until you decide to abide by honorable
rules of conduct in a debate, I shall
refrain from answering any of your posts,
as I have refrained from answering those
of your pal, Van Alstine. When you are
ready to resume discussion under proper
conditions, e-mail me.
d.A. pointed out:
One of the rules for honourable debate is
not to hide one’s identity.
Who are you, Honourable One?
What is your real name?
To which Gord McFee responds:
Gruss Gott, d.A,
d.A. interrupts:
Gruessen Sie Gott, oder mich?
Gord McFee contiues:
meinst Du dass ein “ehrlicher” Mensch seinen
Namen zugeben sollte? 🙂
d.A. answers:
Selbstverstaendlich! Ich kann schon nachvollziehen,
dass eineR nicht unbedingt seinen/ihren eigenen
Namen benuetzen will. Aber wenn das so sei, sollte
man/frau in der Lage sein, falls darauf angesprochen,
den richtigen Namen anzugeben oder mindestens einen
treffenden Grund zu finden, weshalb man/frau das
nicht tun will.
>
> d.A.
>
>>>>
Since when do I need to give you reasons
for my actions?
From [email protected] Fri Oct 25 09:02:08 PDT 1996
Article: 76947 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let’s Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: 25 Oct 1996 14:17:07 GMT
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[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
If I want my opinion, I’ll ask you for it.
I would also have to say that what you presume to call “research” is
nothing more than a desperate search for props to a quasi-religious
conviction that the Nazis weren’t really such bad chaps after all.
Whatever it is, it sure ain’t historical research.
If anyone has a belief based upon faith it is you, because your
old train schedules and bills are NO evidence for murder, whine
and whimper all you like.
I never said that the railway records were proof of murder. I guess if
I want my opinion I should ask you for it as well?
The point which you seem so consistently and entirely unable to grasp
is that *no* historical event can be proved to have occurred on the
basis of single pieces of evidence. Similarly, no event can be proved
to be a myth on the basis of a few anomalous pieces of evidence.
Don’t tell me what I can and cannot grasp. I grasp it all too well and it
does not convince me. We are talking about alleged murders. You people
had it easy for years because the charter at Nuremberg stated that
the Tribunal and other tribunals to follow would not be restrained
by “technical rules of evidence”. Well, those days are over
and people are now demanding the technical evidence which was
ignored 50 years ago. Of course, they could not supply it then
and you cannot supply it now. It is your problem, not mine. Your
version of the Holocaust is being called to account.
Let’s take an example. If I were to ask you to produce the single most
convincing piece of evidence that World War II had actually occurred,
you could not produce a single piece of convincing evidence. If you
were to produce a copy of the US declarations of war, for instance, I
could immediately object that it contains no record of battles, and
troop movements, no casualty lists, no records of arms manufacture, no
evidence that other countries were involved in the alleged World War.
In order to prove to me that World War II actually occurred you would
have to produce a variety of kinds of evidence *and* give an account> of it.
If you are going to accuse people of murder, you had better be
able to prove it. Aside from that, I am proving your survivors to
have been liars who fabricated tales in order to convict people
and have their revenge. Perhaps not all of them were lying,
or perhaps some exaggerated, or thought they were telling
the truth, but this does not change the fact that most of these
tales are false.
>
> Similarly with the railway records: by themselves, they prove only
> that 1.1 million people are unaccounted for. How can we account for
> them? We can account for them by examining contemporaneous accounts
> and documents.
>
> In January 1942, the various branches of the Nazi military and
> security establishments meet at Wannsee to discuss the final solution
> to the Jewish question. They all agree that the coordinating group for
> the final solution will be the SS, and they further agree that the
> Jews will be rounded up in camps and worked to death, the surviving
> remainder to be “dealt with accordingly.”
These words are not verbatim by any means.
At about the same time,
> Speer and Goering issue directives that Russian prisoners will no
> longer be available for labour in Himmler’s pet project, the model
> town of Auschwitz. About a week later, Himmler issued a directive to
> his officials at Auschwitz to expect a big influx of civilian Jews who
> were to be put to work in Birkenau. As plans for the expansion of
> Birkenau progressed, a big, new crematorium was planned to deal with
> “ordinary” camp mortality. Initially, this crematorium was to be built
> at Auschwitz, but was moved in a succession of plans first to Birkenau
> adjacent to the farmhouses which witnesses said had been used as gas
> chambers, finally settling in the southwest corner of the camp. A
> second identical crematorium was then planned to be built adjacent to
> the first Birkenau crematorium. Between them, these two installations
> of 15 retorts, or “ovens,” each should have been able to deal easily
> with the worst effects of typhus epidemics on the scale that Birkenau
> experienced over the summer of 1942. But then two more crematoria with
> eight retorts each were planned and ultimately constructed in the
> northwest corner of Birkenau.
>
> Meanwhile, on September 26, 1942, a directive was received at
> Auschwitz that the property of inmates was no longer to be accounted
> for but simply seized and shipped into Germany.
>
> As construction of the Birkenau crematoria neared completion two
> internal SS documents were produced. One referred to additional delay
> in construction because the cold of January 1943 prevented the
> concrete in the roof of the “Vergasungskeller” from setting. The other
> was a construction company report on work done to the “Gaskammer” in
> one of the northwest crematoria.
These documents do not refer to lethal gas chambers to
kill human beings, though you choose to attach that
interpretation because it is convenient for you to do so.
>
> Skipping ahead in the narrative, in October 1943, Himmler gave a
> speech of encouragement to a group of demoralized SS officers in which
> he said: “I am talking about the evacuation of the Jews, the
> extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things
> that is easily said. ‘The Jewish people is being exterminated.'”
This whole speech is highly controversial and in any event does
not prove that people were being murdered.
>
> This message is starting to become a little lengthy so I won’t burden
> you with accounts of eyewitness testimony and perpetrator confessions,
I wish you would.
> or with forensic reports on cyanide traces or the locations of mass
> graves which match witness accounts.
I have read these reports and they do not prove lethal gassings
to kill human beings.
Instead, I will ask you to do
> something which you have not done so far and that is to give an
> explanation of the railway records which accounts for the following:
>
> 1) an authentic minutes that describes a plan to work Jews to death
> and deal with the rest
Answered this. The Wannsee conference did not mention the killing of
Jews as was attested to by some of the participants decades later.
>
> 2) the construction of a large labour camp with an crematory
> overcapacity to be run by the very people given the task of settling
> the Jewish question
Crematory ovens were common in camps. Auschwitz was a massive
facility, consequently they needed more ovens, especially since they
broke down frequently anyway.
>
> 3) construction documents which make reference to gas chambers at the
> places where bodies are to be disposed of
These refer to gas chambers for delousing and bodies which had died
>from disease or old age, etc.
>
> 4) a document which orders that the accounting of prisoner property
> cease just at the time that the mass murder of inmates is alleged to
> have begun
Taking property for the war effort is not the same as taking lives.
This is apparently a coincidence.
>
> 5) a speech by the man in charge of settling the Jewish question in
> which he says that “the Jews are being exterminated”
This speech is highlly controversial and far from established that
Himmler even uttered the words attributed to him.
>
> 6) forensic reports which show traces of cyanide consistent with
> multiple, short-lived exposures to cyanide gas
This is in certain areas, such as the morgue, where bodies would
be kept longer until autopsies were performed. Consequently, though
these areas were disinfested, they were not disinfested as frequently as
the barracks.
>
> 7) forensic reports which show graves containing human bone and ash
> where witnesses said they ought to be
This is consistent with the thousands who died from epidemics.
>
> 8) eyewitness accounts that people were murdered with poison gas at
> Birkenau
These I have been dealing with slowly but surely. I could
always use more. From these same sources we are told
that 4 million Jews had been killed by gas in 1944.
>
> Now, you may opt for an argument that claims that all of these bits of
> evidence are the result of lies, torture, chicanery, and forgery. I
> will expect you to prove each allegation of an imposture.
I have given my explanation. You will give yours, of course, which
will expectedly be at complete variance with mine, as I am
referred to as a “denier” and you a “defender”.
>
> Or, you can construct your own narrative which deals with a mere eight
> pieces of evidence and which provides a complete and coherent
> alternative account of the railway records that shows that the Nazis
> meant the Jews no harm–or some such thing.
In brief, I supplied it for you. However, I plan to post some of
the problems I have with the article writtren by Pressac and
Van Pelt in Anatomy of a Death camp.
>
> If you are serious about debating history, you will at least attempt
> to deal with the evidence like an historian.
If there is no evidence per se, then we must try and
use our common sense, and the situation seems to be
dualistic in nature.
>
> Otherwise you are free to produce yet another smartass remark or
> sniggering pun on somebody’s name to evade the question altogether.
I would not do this so often if everyone else behaved
more courteously. I have demonstrated great restraint
and patience with some of the people who post here, but
if they wish to continnue wiith the insults, smartass remarks
and sniggering puns is all you may expect.
rb
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta
> —
>
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Oct 21 07:02:41 PDT 1996
Article: 76083 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 21 Oct 1996 08:57:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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