Documents

Blackmore part 1.1, Bellinger Joseph

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:14 PST 1996
Article: 83200 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Good Old Days,2. Who killed the cop?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:22:57 GMT
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Here is something from chapter two entitled: “Bloody
Wednesday in Olkusz/Ilkenau”.

The excerpt begins by inform us that a capital crime had
occurred on 16 July 1940. A German policeman named
Ernest Kaddatz was bushwhacked and murdered by assailants
unknown. The German authorities believed the assailants were
hiding out in the town of Olkusz.

On 31 July the town was surrounded by police units. A Jew was
or Jews were suspected of the murder. Thus, the Jewish inhabitants
of the town were compelled toassemble in the village square and lie
face down on the ground for a number of hours while the town and their
persons were searched. It is alleged that the Jews were beaten with rifle
butts, but no evidence is offered to sustain that charge.

A Jew named Tadeusz Lupa is shot while attempting to flee. This must
have made him appear guilty in the eyes of the investigating authorities.
The authors of the book tekk us that Tadeusz could not stand the “torture”
of lying face down on the ground so he fled.

Finally, we are told that the towns population was sent to Auschwitz in 1942,
with no additional comment. The obvious inference which the authors of the
book wish to be drawn is that the Jews were murdered there. Yet, they offer
no proof whatsoever.

Photographs are reproduced showing the jews of the town being searched
and lying on the ground. There is no sign of mistreatment.

Conclusion: The killer was probab;y Tadeusz.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:14 PST 1996
Article: 83201 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:41:33 GMT
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (jimmy) writes [to me]:
>
> # Unlike you, little Danny, when there are no more nazis there
> # is no one from whom to obtain praise and self worth. When
> # one apologizes for Jews, there are still many of them to
> # imagine will praise you and give you self worth.
>
> Ok boys, who forgot to run PGP on this?
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
Danny, go back to your photo collection…..

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:15 PST 1996
Article: 83203 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:35:02 GMT
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>

>
> Blackmore:
> >The same could well be asked of Kramer…………………………..
>
> M. Curtis:
> Kramer was in charge of the party was he not?
>
> Deniers have attempted to use the nit-picking technique of reporting
> “history.”

It isn’t nit picking. What it is is exposing the lies you people and your
witnesses have attempted to propagate over the years. And our efforts
seem to be gaining headway after years of lies and distortions.

Examples of Blackmores mendacity have been illustrated
> above.

It has? To you, perhaps.

It is quite easy, as Jamie McCarthy has stated, to state a lie;

It is also quite easy to do, as Holocaust survivors have been doing it
for years. Now it is your job to repeat the lies and attempt to defend them.
A thankless task and heritage.

> much more difficult, tedious, time-consuming to disprove the lie

As we revisionists have found out, but we are making great strides
at this moment, as we expose the whole sordid distortion for what it is.

But
> that is what Nizkor is all about

What? Spreading and defending lies?

As long as there are those who will
> lie about the Holocaust , there will be many others willing to
> disprove the lies.

And here I be.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:16 PST 1996
Article: 83205 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies and libels in the same putrid breath …. Re: Questions rbl[email protected] ([email protected]) refuses to answer…
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:20:52 GMT
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[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
rblackmore writes:

(I had tosnip most of Gandhi’s inane drivel, as he is beyond
understanding even the most simple logic.)

Of course it is knowingly being mislead. Where are they getting the false
figures from? Surely not out of thin air?

To which I respond:

Aside from the utter lack of a factual basis for this claim, which of
course, is beyond stupid, I’d like to know the following:

(1) For what reason would somebody knowinglymislead the public in this
manner ?

Why don’t you direct your questions to the proper sources, rather than
to me? Refer again to the Discovery Channel, WW II magzine, Nathan
Ausubel and the Pictorial History of the Jewish People, and, most importantly,
to the Auschwitz State Museum, which maintained this fake figure for decades.
Refer to newspapers like the NY Times and the LA Times which parroted these
fake figures you still ardently believe it for years. You are a true believer, and no
logic wil ever shake the foundations of your irrational faith and compulsion
to believe in a lie greater than your own.

(2) Who is behind this alleged conspiracy ?

Is it a conspriacy? have I ever used that expression? If you
wish to know-seek and you might find-knock and the door might
open to you.

I also said in response to the Lying-Bellinger-Troll:

Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
million. It further doesn’t support the revisionist belief that the
Holocaust is a hoax.

Your serious historians-who are they? hilberg and fleming? (Naturally)

To which Lying-Bellinger-Troll says:

Who is a “serious” historian? A historian who supports your view of the
Holocaust
of course. Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the
earth was
flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil. Your “serious”
historians, such
as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who “believe in the
> gassing myth”,
> also have disagreements of opinion. Choose whose opinion is correct, a,
> b, or c.
> Invariably it will be the “historian” with the highest mortality rate.
> Thats the order
> of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.
>
> And I respond:
>
> Historians are most certainly permitted to disagree. Holocaust
> Historians, that is
> people with extensive knowledge of the facts surrounding the systematic
> extermination of 12 million people, between 6 and 7 million Jews, often
> disagree
> about thefacts surrounding the Holocaust. However, they do it from a rational
> basis involving facts, evidence, and logical reasoning. These three
> items are lost
> on you, and I’d wager most revisionists. You put faith in people like
> Leuchter,
> a fraud and a perjurer. You believe people like David Irving and
> Zundel. The latter
> peddles garbage he knows to be forged and fradulent. The former lies
> about his obvious links to the National Alliance, an organization that
> is, by it’s
> very nature, anti-semetic.

All of that is your opinion. The fact is your little Holocaust story is on
its way out for good.
>
> Finally, Lying-Bellinger-Troll charges:
>
> > Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
> > Holocaust.
>
> To which I respond:
>
> Indeed it will not. So perhaps you should retract your lies then, with
> respect to the Simon Wisenthal Center, the Discovery Channel, and WWII
> Magazine.

My, you have a curious way of twisting things to make you look even
more stupid and pig headed than you probably are.
>
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi-rblackmore
>
>>>>

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:17 PST 1996
Article: 83207 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:16:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
>
> [email protected] writes:
> >Do you really expect him to show anything more than the face of a
> >deranged clown?
>
> Chris Carpenter made an assertion, now he’s being asked to back it up.
> What’s the problem?
>
> Derek
>
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
> Version: 2.6.3ia
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAgUBMpoJrlXdSMogwMcZAQEgdAP/UDJakywJPAABRIgANsNadn1W9KPuWjid
> ffdi/Xl47/WHh1IUNUNxOlzgRz1UbbvZb7AGsTnrIbUMqwZaCLPSUJ4yN2TZY6p9
> rHlInzoI/kjYpdYXJNGfT/FTaD2kza/RwUA7y+yHbuQj0p6RNA+jvEeY+MGoT5S2
> AAYC0WCJsBU=
> =lIg3
> —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
> —
> Derek Bell [email protected] | “Donuts – is there _anything_
> WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html| they can’t do?”
> PGPkey: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/key.asc| – Homer Simpson
>
>>>>
What’s the problem? You should ask!

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:18 PST 1996
Article: 83208 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:18:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> >
> ># “Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
> ># Christians and get control of their gold. We have already
> ># killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet.”
> >#
> ># (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
> >
>

> >I repeat my question: can you present any proof whatsoever
> >that this Rabbi (if he existed), said what you allege he said?
> I gave you names, dates, and places. Go verify, or disprove.
> >
> >We have seen forgeries like this before (the Franklin
> >forgery, for instance).
> Are you sure its a forgery? How do you know?
> Go research Rabbi Reichorn and get back to me.

we also may have seen forgeries with Himmler’s alleged Posen
speech, but ole Danny is sure to flaunt that one as authentic.-rb
>
> >The ball is in your court, nazi-boy.
> >-Danny Keren.
> No, the ball is in your court – either accept his statement or
> prove he did not say it.
> Chris__________________________________________
>
>>>>
Do you really expect this person to comply with your request, Mr. Carpenter?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:18 PST 1996
Article: 83209 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:20:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
> >>In 1996, in the United States, Chris Carpenter said:
> >>
> >>”I am a lying antisemitic Nazi-wannabe. I despise Jesus Christ
> >>but find the pathetically stupid Christian Identity movement a
> >>useful tool in disseminating my lies. I only wish the Holocaust
> >>had succeeded 100%.”
> >>
> >>Either admit this statement or prove you did not say it.
> >Everyone knows that I would not say that.
>
> Nonsense. I for one know no such thing. I know that I in fact
> made up those particular words, but so far, the evidence on the
> table that you said them is exactly as good as the evidence
> that your alleged Chief Rabbi in France said the words you
> attribute to him. You said that you had a source for those words,
> and evidence that he said them, but you haven’t shown either, so
> I find it reasonable to suppose that, at best, you partake of much
> of what I attributed to you, to wit, that you are a lying antisemite.
>
>>>>
Miss Flower, go have some tea and biscuits and play a little
bridge-it is much better suited to your limited capabilities.-rb

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:19 PST 1996
Article: 83210 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Did Hitler Commit the Unforgivable Sin?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:21:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Irene Whitfield) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says…
> >
> >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> >(Gord McFee) wrote:
> >
> >> Come back when you know the difference between theology
> >> and zoology.
> >
> >
> >Anonymous responds:
> >
> >Of course I know the difference between theology and
> >zoology.
> >
> >Whites are the Chosen Ones, and everybody else is an
> >animal.
> >
> >Yes my Hero did commit the unforgivable sin,
> in so much as he never finished the job.
> Matt, Courtesy of Irene Whitfield.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Irene, are you feeling ok today?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:20 PST 1996
Article: 83213 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:25:41 GMT
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> [email protected] (ibokor) writes:

>
> [Duewell S.198
> IMT XXXII S. 234ff, PS-3358]
>
> This is item III 115 on page 276 of
> “Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden im
> NS-Staat” (2nd Edition)
> Edited by J.WAlk
> Published by CF Mueller Verlag, Heidelberg, 1996
>
> ISBN 3-8252-1889-9
>
> d.A.
>
>>>>
Now you will prove that Frank had the authority to implement
such a policy?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:21 PST 1996
Article: 83215 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Good Old Days-Pogrom at Kaunas
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:19:07 GMT
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A very serious pogrom took place at Kovno and Kaunas.
The violent actions of the mob were fully described by
German witnesses at the time. From these descriptions we
learn the followiing:

That the pogrom was exclusively the affair of the Lithuanians,
and as such, they are accountable for what happened.

The descriptions sound similar to the horrors perpetrated by the
French during their bloody revolution.

The “Death Dealer” was very active in meting out death
sentences with his club. The victims were men, who were beaten
to death in bestial manner to the cheering of the population.

The explanation given for these horrors was that the victims were
communist oppressors who were guilty of collaborating with the
communists, thus they were sentenced to death for their alleged
crimes by the mob.

The German authorities forbid such public executions, but the rage
of the mobs could not be contained.

A photographer took photos of this action, in which a number of
men were beaten to death to the cheers of the crowd and the
playing of the Lithuanian anthem. He was told by a member of
the crowd that one of the men doing the killing had had his family
butchered just two days before the arrival of the Germans, and he was
now exacting his revenge against those considered responsible.

Another report written by a lance corporal in the German army clearly
states that he was never given a reason as to why the public executions
were being carried out, so he is worthless as a witness.

The third witness, a sergeant major, seemed confused by what he saw
and why it was happening, but it is clear from his account that only
15 men were thus executed. The Germans were shocked at the brutality
of the executions, but the Lithuanians heartily approved.

A fourth witness from 562 Baker’s company is of no help whatsoever
in determining what happened and why.

The final witness, a medical orderly, is of little value. He relates an
incident at Fort VII at Kaunas, yet his description is very vague and
offers no real explanation as to what was happening to whom and why.
He states that he “heard shooting” in the night, yet saw nothing.
He states that he never saw any shootings during the day.
He states that he “heard” that shootings were taking place-convincing
proof for a Holohugger but hardly proof for any impartial investigator.

He states that “if he remembers correctly” all the people brought to
the fort were Jews. This is not very convincing.

He states that bodies were thrown into a large crater and covered with
chloride and lime. He repeats rumors he heard, yet was never a witness
to an actual shooting himself. He states that he walked up to a crater once,
but saw no bodies because everything “was covered with sand”.

He mentions just one incident where he witnessed a person who was shot.
He states that it was a Jewish woman. How he knew this he doesn’t say…
Do Jews look different from other people?

Finally, he states that he was just about to bandage the woman when an
SS man came along and told him to make himself scarce, and that the
Jewish woman had no further need of bandages or dressing. He stated
that the SS man threatened to shoot him if he didn’t go on his way. He left.
He states that 2,000 Jews were taken to the site and definitely shot, yet
he never witnessed one shooting or one corpse.

Conclusion: On the basis of what the authors have provided, it is very
difficult to come to a definite conclusion about what happened in the
last report and why. The orderly’s comments are not very helpful, and there
is no indication as to whom he directed his report to, or whether he ever
received a reply or explanation.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:22 PST 1996
Article: 83217 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:43:12 GMT
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Allan Matthews) writes:
> In article <32942588.259[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt Stele) wrote:
> >The Holocaust has no physical evidence: only contradictory and
> >contrived “testimony.”
>
> The only thing around here for which there is no evidence, Brian, is your
> brain. Why do lie so much? Why do you ignore the massive amount of physical
> evidence for the Holocaust? What’s that? Reality gets in the way of your
> crazed Jew-hating? Oh, ok, just as long as you’re up front about it.
>
> One would think the Irrational Appliance could do better than you, being the
> Master Race ™ and all…
>
> allan
>
> =================================================
> [email protected]
> =================================================
> A monk asked Un Mun, “What is Buddha?”
> Un Mun replied, “Dry shit on a stick.”
> =================================================
> http://www.cybercom.net/~amatthews/amatthews.html
> =================================================
>
>>>>
What drug have you been taking? Where is this phsical evidence of
which you speak so freely? You must know something the rest of the
world does not-or is it only delusional thinking?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:23 PST 1996
Article: 83218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:40:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

“[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of “Holocaust survivors”] are full
of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies.”
Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.

“We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by
> little at a truth we find bitter. ”
>
> -Denis Diderot
> http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
> http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
One day Mr. Blackmore will soon eat crow pie.”-Mark Van Alstine
Well, I am still waiting……

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:23 PST 1996
Article: 83238 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Some bodies fell out’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:50:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
Daniel Keren wrote:

Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first
gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW’s were murdered
[snip]

Mr. Blackmore then responds with a long list of demands:
Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
who made these comments. If he was ever charged with crimes
himself, or if he “plea bargained” and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources.
[snip]

Such demands, Mr. Blackmore! Are you incapable of researching
this yourself, or simply unwilling?

Your friends made the accusation. now they must convince the
skeptics.

While we’re on the subject of demands, why don’t we get down
to brass tacks on some issues that you and I have discussed?

I remember quite distinctly you promised to provide proof
for the following assertsion of yours:

1) Kremer was not responsible for the conditions at Bergen-Belsen,
> rather he did what he could to help the inmates.

This was certainly supplied in depth and I will not go into the
subject again. I refer the reader to previous posts on this subject.
Research them on Deja News. Are you really that dense, Mr. Harmon?

> The only evidence you have provided for this assertion is Kremer’s
> own testimony.

Untrue.

He is contradicted by the testimony of his
> subordinates and soldiers who liberated the camp. Additionally,
> the fact that inmates were forced to work without food or water
> also makes things look bad for Kremer.

Work? what? Bury bodies which had died due to infectious disease?
I won’t debate this any further. it has already been debunked.
>
> 2) Auschwitz testimonies discussing mass gassings are unreliable.
>
> The only evidence you have provided is your multi-part
> ‘Soviet Def Comed Jam’ containing your favorite allegedly
> absurd eyewitness testimonies. These documents, oddly enough,
> make no mention of Auschwitz at all, which leads me to wonder
> how they can be relevant.

Do you confirm or deny the contents of the reports?
And I am still waiting for those alleged forensic tests
conducted on “gassed” inmates at dachau by Dr.
larson. Where are they?
>
>
> I certainly hope that in your absence you have had ample time
> to research and draw up your arguments.
>
> > Aside from all that, I would
> >like to comment that the killing of human beings by means of “gas
> >vans” is a very POOR way to embark upon a program of mass murder.
>
> So is shooting them, as the Nazis found out. Why do you think
> they then constructed the large industrial killing centers of
> Auschwitz, Treblinka, and so on?

Prove that these were killing installations. why is there no
forensic evidence to prove your claims?
>
> >How many of these vans could be built and put into effect? How many
> >victims could they accomodate-50-60 at most? I am surprised that
> >certain exterminationists continue to peddle this foolish story.
>
> This foolish story, as you so blithely put it, is supported by
> ample amounts of documentation.

Really? where are the vans? will someone demonstrate one for
our benefit?
>

>
>
>>>>

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:24 PST 1996
Article: 83243 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soviet Def Comedy Jam I
Date: 30 Nov 1996 11:24:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Without getting too deeply into this, here are a few direct quotes from
“Soviet witnesses” and prosecutors detailing German “atrocities”:

“The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron plate was
then lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he
was being measured for height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which
shot out suddenly and poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the
head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in the
corner of the room…..The bodies of prisoners thus murdered were burned in
four mobile crematories transported in trailers and attached to motor
cars.” Page 377 IMT Vol. VII

“It is noted in the official report that the commission examined material:
tools used for the torture of Soviet prisoners of war, a leather thong and
dagger, picked up among the disarmed bodies, with the well-known Hitlerite
slogan “Bood and Honor” (Blut und Ehre). The circumstances in which the
dagger was discovered give every possibility of understanding what was
meant by German “honor” and for whose blood the dagger was intended.”
Ibid. P.387.

“….the Germans discovered a girl in military uniform, who resisted the
fascists, crying, “Shoot, you vipers, I die for the Soviet people and for
Stalin, but you, you monsters, will die a dog’s death.” This girl patriot
was shot on the spot.”
Ibid. P.388.

“N.N. Dashkova, a woman from the village of Adjimushkaisk, testified:
(Evidently before a Soviet Commission)

“I myself saw the Germans, who had caught about 900 Red Army soldiers in
the quarry, first ill-treat and then shoot them. The fascists used gas
(sic!).”
Ibid. P.388.

And finally,

“The commandant of the Yanov Camp, Obersturmfuehrer Willhaus,
systematically shot with an automatic rifle from the balcony of his office
room the prisoners employed in the workshops, partly for sheer love of
sport and partly to amuse his wife and daughters. He would then hand his
rifle to his wife and she too had a shot at the prisoners. Sometimes, to
please his 9 year-old daughter, he had children between the ages of 2 and 4
tossed in the air and then took pot shots at them, while his daughter
applauded and shreiked “Papa, do it again!; do it again, Papa!” And he did
it again.” (!!!)

The internees of this camp were exterminated for no reason at all, often as
the result of a bet. A woman witness, Kirschner, informed the
Investigating Commission that a Gestapo Commissar, Wepke, bet the other
camp executioners that he could cut a boy in half with one stroke of the
axe. They did not believe him. So he caught a 10 year old boy on the
road, made him kneel down, told him to hide his face in the folded palm of
his hands, made one test stroke, placed the child’s head in a more
convenient position and with one single stroke cut the boy in half. The
Hitlerites heartily congratulated Wepke, shaking him by the hand.
Ibid. P. 451.

I couldn’t improve on the above even if I wanted to.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:25 PST 1996
Article: 83252 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the motor was then switched on by Gotringer’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:03:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:

>
> I find you very strange and obviously not educated at all.
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Well, more of your distortions again. When will you ever tell the truth?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:26 PST 1996
Article: 83253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the motor was then switched on by Gotringer’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:02:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>
> >Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling’s “library” consists of _comic_ book?
>
> On behalf of comic book fans everywhere I protest that remark. Ms. or
> Mr. Belling would have a much better education if s/he were exposed to
> a goodly number of comic books.
>
>>>>
Such as those written by Hilberg?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:27 PST 1996
Article: 83258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nazi Witchcakes
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:13:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

This one should have been part of Soviet Def Comedy Jam but it was so
good that I couldn’t resist posting it separately:

“According to instructions issued by the German Commandant, all the school children
were ordered to appear at the school at a given time. On arrival, the 245 children,
school books in hand, were sent to a factory school outside the town, allegedly for
a walk. There the cold and hungry infants were offered coffee and poisoned pies.
Since there was not enough coffee to go round, those who did not get any were
sent to the infirmary where a German orderly smeared their lips with a quick acting
poison. In a few minutes all the children were dead. School children of the higher
grades were carried off in trucks and shot down by machine gun fire 8 kilometers
outside of the town. The bodies of the first batch of murdered children were brought
to the same spot-a very large, very long, anti-tank ditch.” Pg. 493. IMT, Vol. VII.

Now, compare this with the following:
“It was common knowledge that witches targeted children. Well over half the
indictments in New England involved the sickness or death of children. Popular
books on witchcraft described how witches used “oil of live infants stolen out of the
cradle or dead ones stolen out of their graves” to make an unguent or jelly.”……..(It
is a curiosity that one of the chapters in this book is entitled “Witchcakes”.-rb)

Source: The Devil’s Disciples, Peter Charles Hoffer, Page 66, John Hopkins
University Press, 1996.

Just as the Jews were once basely accused of poisoning Europe’s wells, so the Germans
are accused of poisoning pies. Actually the Commandant was just a lousy cook. The
Germans had good reason to insist that their women remain in the kitchen!

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:27 PST 1996
Article: 83263 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the screams and groans of the people died away’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:05:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
> Stele) wrote:
>
>
> >
> > The illustrious Suchomel interview is a hoax, with the “hidden camera”
> > focusing in on Suchomel.
>
> BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!
>
> Fascinating that YOU are the only person who believes this.
>
> Did it EVER occur to you that the “hidden camera” *might* have been held by
> ANOTHER person?!? They were sitting in a crowded bar, you know.
> >
> > >You will, of course, provide evidence of your assertion in the form of
> > >a list of all the people blamed for the extermination of Jews marking
> > >those who committed suicide in custody.
> >
> > You will of course provide a list of every Jew who purportedly died in
> > the Holohoax, correct?
> >
> I believe Yad Vashem has that list, as complete as is possible. So yes, it
> exists.
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
>
>
>>>>
There are a number of things you believe which are totally illogical.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:29 PST 1996
Article: 83264 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:11:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
> Stele) wrote:
>
> [Nothing but Nazi vulgarities]
>
> One can only wonder if Mr. Smith’s keepers at the National Alliance
> realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
> street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes?
>
> For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith’s
> (aka “Kurt Stele”) rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
> that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
> please visit:
>
> http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
> http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r
>
> “In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
> by the Nazi’s during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
> 1953. An avenue called “The Avenue of the Righteous” runs through this
> site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
> planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
> person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers.”
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
Yes. Several hundred trees. is that the real figure for Jewish deaths
during the war?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:29 PST 1996
Article: 83268 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For what its worth
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:24:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
> Stele) wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:02:19 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van
> > Alstine) wrote:
> >
> > >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > >> For the record, I want to say that I was accused by Mike Curtis
> > >> of distorting the text in the book, “The Belsen Trial”. This was
> > >> an out and out lie.
> > >
> > >Yes, it was an out an lie. You should be ashamed of yourself for such
> > >blatant lies, Frau”lien Schwarzesel!
>
> Methinks Brian is still peeved that he got his sorry carcass booted from
> the militia newsgroup.
>
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>
>>>>
Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi-rblackmore

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:30 PST 1996
Article: 83295 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Corporal Jacob Schwartz reminisces over the “good old days” in Occupied Germany
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:56:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad60-040.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here are a few excerpts from a written report by
Jewish American Corporal Jacob Schwartz, reminiscing
about his “good old days” in occupied Germany:

Aachen, January 14, 1945

“To be back in Germany again after ten years, like
this, in an American uniform, riding through the
Siegfried Line in a jeep with all my American friends…..
what a truly amazing thing!……Fortunately it is warm
in the newspaper office, and I can relax a little after
the job we did this afternoon on this wretched little
Nazi Cerfontaine…….The ruins of Aachen inspire me….
I wonder if Frankfurt has been as well punished….If
only my mother could have come with me from America
to see all this!…..

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:31 PST 1996
Article: 83296 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Corporal Jacob Schwartz reminisces over the “good old days” in Occupied Germany
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:02:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd24-019.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here are a few excerpts from a written report by
Jewish American Corporal Jacob Schwartz, reminiscing
about his “good old days” in occupied Germany:

Aachen, January 14, 1945

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:32 PST 1996
Article: 83297 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:01:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
[email protected] wrote:

Mike Stein wrote:

They could be, but I am not suggesting that. What I am suggesting is that
this was one man’s opinion in one particular location,

He was writing an official report about econocmic situation in the whole
“opinion” about the mass-murders of Jews could somehow be invalid? Why
should he write some nonsense about that to his superiors?

and I would be
interested in reading any responses to his comments at the time.

I would be interested also, but due to the destruction of documents,
sometimes we have only parts of them available. I don’t know whether
much more of the correspondence was preserved, ’tis possible.

Well, i think it ought to be introduced. this little excerpt proves very
little.

However, your answer is surely only a fit of the Beaulieu syndrome:
“just asking for another proof of the proof”. Try first to understand
the evidence about the author and the plain content of this document.
It will cost you only a couple of months. Then look for further documents.

Perhaps you are not aware that at the time the reports were written,
British Intelligence intercepted and decoded many radio reports which
involved the same kinds of killing actions in the written reports. These
intercepts involved the Ultra secret, which was so highly classified that
it was not revealed until years after the war – the intercepts were never
used at Nuremberg. However, they corroborate the written reports that
mass executions were being carried out – and they are completely untainted
by Soviet hands. Does this additional information allow you to form some
conclusion about the written reports?

I have known about Ultra for some time and have also known about mass
shootings in the Soviet Union…..

Well, don’t you think that in the document a campaign of systematic
extermination of the Jews in Ukraine is described?

I am not sure that I can agree with this. That masses of people were
being shot for various reasons seems to have been the case. As to how
many of these reports were purposely exaggerated, is also difficult to assess,
but this was indeed claimed by the authors of the reports themselves. That
all of these attacks were unprovoked also needs to be proven. Many atrocitites
occurred on the eastern front by all parties concerned: German, Russian, and
yes, even Jewish.

And doesn’t the
author state also that the reasons for this were ideological, i.e.
Nazi ideology? What does it tell about the anti-Jewish Nazi policy?

I have no argument with you about anti-Jewishness being a part of Nazi
ideology. I only contest that this ideology led to a program to exterminate
every Jew in Europe.

this does not prove the existence of gas
chambers

You aren’t shifting the subject now, aren’t you?

Well, yes, and no. Isn’t it relevant?

nor does it prove that the Nazis were out to exterminate every
Jew in Europe.

See above, and try to answer the questions.

Have tried.

Three million germans were also murdered after the war by
mainly Jewish agents set up with the blessing of Stalin.

How do you know this?

Do you disbelieve it?

And did you count these Germans?

u.roessler [email protected]

And did you count the Jews?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:32 PST 1996
Article: 83299 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: “The Number of Jews in the American Forces is Remarkable
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:39:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad60-040.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>From an anti-Nazi newspaper publisher: Excerpts from
a report on the American occupation of Aachen:

“The Americans needed a place to print their proclamations,
so I was in luck. They sent a printing machine expert to
repair what damage there was. It was rather strange to
be ordered around by a Jew-the number of Jews in the
American forces is remarkable-but we must all prepare ourselves
for big changes………That I must be subservient to an outsider
in my own plant is nothing new to me, and was to have been
expected. Sergeant Filler, the young man who now occupies
the Goebbels….office, speaks German-he is a German-born
Jew-and he is very interested in girls, which occupies much of
his time.”

From: The Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, pp.5-6.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:33 PST 1996
Article: 83309 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:25:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> wrote:
> >Charles Power wrote:
> >
> >>…assholes….jackass….loonies
> >
> >My earlier question about how reasonable the responses would be was, of
> >course, rhetorical. And the rhetoric predictable.
>
> Heavens Allmighty!
>
> After Giwer and Stele’s insulting diatribes, where they
> call others names like ‘kike,’ you have the audacity
> to >>whine<< when Mr. Power refers to their ilk as > ‘assholes.’
>
> ‘Asshole’ fits stele and giwer like a glove. (or in their
> case, a buttplug.)
>
> Brian Harmon
> ——
> Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
> physical evidence into a coherent and unified history.
>
>
>
>>>>
A “butt plug”?!?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:34 PST 1996
Article: 83310 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:26:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected](Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
> In [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
> writes:
> >
> >In article ,
> Bruce Forest wrote:
> >
> >>To prevent asssholes like you from trying to convince the world the
> Shoah
> >>never happened. You are a well known anti-semite on alt.revisionism.
> >>
> > Because I dare to disagree with the Jews I am supposed to be an
> >anti-semite 😀 😀
> >–
> >Ole Kreiberg http://login.dknet.dk/~olk
>
> Your constant use of the phrase “the Jews” is bigoted.
> —
> [email protected]
> “The concept of ‘greatness’ entails being noble,
> wanting to be by oneself,
> being capable of being different, standing alone…” -Friedrich Nietzsche
> “Identity is shaped through confict and opposition.” -Camille Paglia
>
>>>>
Come off it. The constant use of the phrase “Nazi-boy” is bigoted.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:34 PST 1996
Article: 83311 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: “A Few Good Men”
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:56:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Captain Springer wrote this about Corporal Schwartz:

“He is a good organizer and scrounger, and enjoys
ordering the cringing Heines around.”

From: Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.48.

Of course this is easy to do when all who were left
to be ordered around were women, children, and
the elderly.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:35 PST 1996
Article: 83312 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JW revisionism
Date: 2 Dec 1996 12:00:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> Craig D writes:
> Does the Watchtower practice revisionism???
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~defender
>
>>>>
Yes. Of Christianity.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:36 PST 1996
Article: 83313 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: “A Few Good Men”
Date: 2 Dec 1996 12:04:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Captain Springer has a few kind words to say
about Corporal Jacob Schwarz:

“He is a good organizer and a born scrounger, and
enjoys ordering the cringing Heines around.”

From: Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.48.

Well, that should not have been so hard to do, as
all that was left in Aachen were homeless women,
children, and the elderly.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:37 PST 1996
Article: 83315 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg “cite”
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:05:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In , [email protected] (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

[email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:

[a misprision of Robert Jackson’s exchange with Albert Speer at
Nuremberg]

Sorry Mr. “Nussbaum.” You lose.

Now the question is, did Jackson “charge” this or did he simply
ask a question about it? Here is the follow-up to “Stele”‘s
“full excerpt”, from Nizkor FTP file
people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context:

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon
were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in
the war?

SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war.
From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the
front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and
could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people,
were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and
wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without
> >> military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the
> >> secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although
> >> common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that in
> >> the near future this new weapon would arrive.
>
> >Sorry Mr. “Stele”. You lose.
>
> It is also worth noting that Jackson abandons the issue at this point
> and goes on to discuss other rumors which were put about to boost
> German morale in the waning days of the war. The point of the whole
> line of questioning was to establish that the Nazi government was
> determined to wage an aggressive war to the bitter end, not to
> establish the grounds for the charge of “Crimes Against Humanity.”
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Mr. Morris, of course, is in error, as the Germans would hardly
have used this alleged incident of mass murdering Jews outside
of Auschwitz. in an effort to “build up the morale”, or induce
German citiaens to believe in the imminent appearance of “mystery weapons”.
The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
and it is very clear that he for one believed the reports. He was
prepared to believe anything he was told….similar to Chuck Feree,
SHAEF, and Lord Russell of Liverpool, who would have done
better to form a rock group rather than write the embarassing trash
which once duped half the world.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:37 PST 1996
Article: 83316 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:07:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <1[email protected]>, [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> >Charles Power wrote:
> >
> >>…assholes….jackass….loonies
> >
> >My earlier question about how reasonable the responses would be was, of
> >course, rhetorical. And the rhetoric predictable.
>
> What is predictable is that you should pick out the one disrespectful
> response out of three responses and characterize it as typical of the
> responses. That is what we in the rhetoric biz call a category error:
> mistaking the part for the whole.
>
> Meanwhile, Mr. Bellinger cleared his nostrils on the newsgroup some
> 100+ times yesterday (with a series of snappy retorts on the order of
> “I know you are, but what am I?”), and *we* are expected to give
> dispassionate replies to his one respectful message. I’ll leave it as
> an excerise for you to detect your second category error.
>
> And I shall leave it to our readers to consider the disrespectful
> sneer implied by your rhetorical question and its “predictability.”
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
I see you have chosen to single me out for your criticisms. The
fact is, if I am treated with respect, I would treat you with respect
as well. You have done your share of insulting and ridiculing people
on alt revisionism, and now have the gall to act as if your sensibilities
are outraged. Have you no shame?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:38 PST 1996
Article: 83318 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: never trust a confession
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:12:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <32a1[email protected]> – ec 1996 15:41:12 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>On 30 Nov 1996 02:46:11 GMT, [email protected] (Silke-Maria
> :>Weineck) wrote:
> :>
> :>>That’s why photographs are so handy.
> :>
> :> There are no photographs of people being gassed as you are aware.
> :>There are no photographs that even come close to documenting people
> :>being gassed. The few pictures we have of people in the camps when in
> :>normal operation and not towards the end of the war show nothing
> :>”inhumane” about their treatment.
>
> There are no photographs of the Battle of Hastings. Therefore, it never
> happened.
> There are no photographs of the War of the Roses. Therefore, it never
> happened.
> There are no photographs of George Washington. Therefore, he never existed.
>
>
>
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Try this one:

There is no forensic evidence to prove that people
were gassed by the Nazis.

There was no evidence to prove Lizzie Bordon killed
her parents, so she went free.

Anyway, how is it possible to take a photograph of an
event that in all likelihood never happened?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:39 PST 1996
Article: 83349 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 1 Dec 1996 20:55:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
In order to dispel the either accidental or intentional confusion
surrounding one of my previous posts on Himmler’s alleged
speech at Posen, I would like to clarify:
[snip]

What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly
taken of the speech in question.

This has been discussed in the past, i believe Matt Giwer
made similar statements.

A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:

Himmler’s Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser
(whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
the costs of the analysis.

Are you game?

– Brian

I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
analysis years ago…..However, what will this prove? A clever interpolator,
using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
guilty party would confess to the deed….

All they needed to have done is make a copy of a copy or an original
on the same duplicating machines and then insert the clever damning
comments on to the second machine. The poor quality sound
recordings never were used
as conclusive proof even at the kangaroo court of Nuremberg. What
one can only do here, it seems, is use logic to evaluate what we have been
provided with and the circumstances surrounding the whole event. This
I have done.

.I personally know of a case where
a Jewish American, working with staff to compile evidence for the Holocaust,
deliberately doctored film clips received from the Soviet Union after the war
in order to incriminate the Germans. The man will not admit to the deed publicly,
however, for obvious reasons.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:40 PST 1996
Article: 83351 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten
Date: 1 Dec 1996 20:44:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
Ibokor wrote:

As I recall, you claimed that in your French-German
dictionary, there was no mention of extermination;
in connection with Ausrottung and that it is
false and misleading to translate Ausrottung
into English as extermination.

When I checked the Larousse dictionary in a bookshop
in Freiburg im Breisgau in September this year, I
found, as I posted, that ausrotten was rendered into
French as extirper, exterminer;.

I then asked you, Monsieur, to explain the difference
in meanings between the French verb exterminer
and the English verb to exterminate.

To this date, your response has not appeared at this site.

I’ve claim several times that I found dictionnaries were 2 words,
extirper or exterminer were given, without any specification for
the livings. In other dictionnaries it seems that such a specification
is given. How many times will I have to repeat it? You state that my
claim was that in a french-german dictionnary there was no mention of
the word ‘exterminer’, but you don’t give any reference to a specific
post for that. This is simply because I never said that. Is it enought
or will I have to make this clarification in 3 months again?

I will humbly jump in on this little debate, if I may. Ausrottung does
indeed mean to exterminate or wipe out in German….A German
might use the term in relation to the Native Americans….wird ausgerottet….
being wiped out…..it also means to “uproot”, specifically in relation to
plants and so on…..when referring to actions which result in the wiping out
of communities, such as the German village of Nemmersdorf, the expression
ausgettotet is and was used. However, it may also be used with a “qualifier”,
such as “Ausschaltung” which means exclusion. Himmler included this expression
along with ausrottung in his alleged Posen speech. Specifically, it could refer
to the wiping out of homogeneous communities within a larger community….
thus, the Jews could have been ausgeottet in the east, during the partisan
warfare conducted there, yet this would not imply that the WHOLE of Jewry
had been wiped out…..nor would it even mean that all the Jews of the East
were wiped out-which they weren’t. Simply saying that someone is going
to wipe people out does not prove that they did….The German civilians mentioned
at Nemmersdorf were certainly ausgerottet, and we have complete documentation
to prove it. Without proof, as in many of the most blatant accusations in the
Holocaust, the use of “ausrottung” would amount to nothing more than empty
threats and blustering. Does this help?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:41 PST 1996
Article: 83352 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg “cite”
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:03:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Ephraim Nussbaum writes:

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:14:23 -0500, Ephraim Nussbaum
[email protected]> wrote:

the pure evil Kurt Stele again lied:

to which kurt stele replied:

Ooooh! I’m pure evil.

“Muah hah hah hah hah.”

thus demonstrating that he thinks of himself as
a villain in batman or some other children’s adventure.

But he is a real villain, not a fictional one. His posts
are lies calculated to do the most harm possible.
He often closes with:

At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
charged that the Germans invented” a device to instantaneously
“vaporize” 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz “in such a way that there was no
trace left of them.” IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
1946). No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And no reputable historian (or any one else) ever did.

Now Stele knows that this was not ever a serious belief,
> that was once accepted but now abandoned. It was simply a
> question put to a witness. This is intended distortion
> for the purpose of making the accepted facts of the
> holocaust seem rediculous. Logic is just the opposite. the
> story of this device was never accepted because it is
> fanciful and there is no evidence for its actuality. kind of
> adds credence to the facts that WERE accepted.
>
> Though this is explained by various posters every few
> times (thus showing him to be a liar), He
> continues to repost it. He doesn’t care that most people
> will see him for what he is, as long as he can reach
> a select few.
>
> at one point Jean-Francois Beaulieu commented:
>
> >> I read most of it. This doesn’t tell me who wrote that
> >> document. Jackson claimed
> >> that he had a document in the hands. So this document wasn’t
> >> saying the truth, and it still leave the question: who wrote
> >> it? Where did he find this document?
>
> Yes, those are interesting questions.
>
> Historians, and I personally, would be curious as
> to where this document originated. But
> that doesn’t change the fact that your friend the
> pure evil Kurt Stele distorted the story.
> This was done deliberately only for the purpose
> of doing harm. This is evil for its own sake
> which is why I referred to him as I did.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
No. YOU have distorted this issue. Jackson most certainly DID
believe and claim that this accusation was true-and it was believed
at the time. You might want to check the inane writings of Lord
Russell of Liverpool, who repeats most of the ludicrous accusations
against the Germans in his book “Scourge of the Swastika”, as
if they are gospel truth.

The
most idiotic tales were invented AND believed for decades and irresponsibly
bandied about, and now you and other Holocaust devotees say that no
one ever believed it because you know how fanciful and ridiculous the
accusations were and are-and the sad thing is that millions of human
beings were virtually brainwashed into believing this tripe, so that the allies
could justify their numerous crimes against the German people, as well as
justifying the unjust death sentences meted out to hundreds of German
nationals at the various IMT’s. The Holocaust is crumbling….a house built
of sand is doomed to collapse…..

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:41 PST 1996
Article: 83354 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg “cite”
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:05:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Ephraim Nussbaum writes:

On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:14:23 -0500, Ephraim Nussbaum
[email protected]> wrote:

the pure evil Kurt Stele again lied:

to which kurt stele replied:

Ooooh! I’m pure evil.

“Muah hah hah hah hah.”

thus demonstrating that he thinks of himself as
a villain in batman or some other children’s adventure.

But he is a real villain, not a fictional one. His posts
are lies calculated to do the most harm possible.
He often closes with:

And no reputable historian (or any one else) ever did.

Now Stele knows that this was not ever a serious belief,
> that was once accepted but now abandoned. It was simply a
question put to a witness. This is intended distortion
for the purpose of making the accepted facts of the
holocaust seem rediculous. Logic is just the opposite. the
story of this device was never accepted because it is
fanciful and there is no evidence for its actuality. kind of
adds credence to the facts that WERE accepted.

Though this is explained by various posters every few
times (thus showing him to be a liar), He
continues to repost it. He doesn’t care that most people
will see him for what he is, as long as he can reach
a select few.

at one point Jean-Francois Beaulieu commented:

I read most of it. This doesn’t tell me who wrote that
document. Jackson claimed
that he had a document in the hands. So this document wasn’t
saying the truth, and it still leave the question: who wrote
it? Where did he find this document?

Yes, those are interesting questions.

Historians, and I personally, would be curious as
to where this document originated.

Where the rest of the phoney documents originated, no doubt.

But
that doesn’t change the fact that your friend the
pure evil Kurt Stele distorted the story.
This was done deliberately only for the purpose
of doing harm. This is evil for its own sake
which is why I referred to him as I did.

It seems that the only story which was distorted was the Holocaust.

No. YOU have distorted this issue. Jackson most certainly DID
believe and claim that this accusation was true-and it was believed
at the time. You might want to check the inane writings of Lord
Russell of Liverpool, who repeats most of the ludicrous accusations
against the Germans in his book “Scourge of the Swastika”, as
if they are gospel truth.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:42 PST 1996
Article: 83355 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation’
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:06:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
> >> [email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
> >>
> >> >I wonder why Mr. Keren wasted our time with comments
> >> >from a man who admitted that he had only been present
> >> >at two mass executions?
> >>
> >> What logic is this?
> [snip]
> >> Or perhaps you think one witness should prove every
> >> event of the Holocaust?
> >>
> >>>>>
> >What I am saying is that one execution, if true, does NOT
> >prove your case. Simple enough?
>
> Yes, fine. So what?
>
> No one believes that a single extermination proves the entire
> Nazi Holocaust. If Dr. Keren believed this, why would he
> produce so many other documents detailing mass extermination?
>
> Brian Harmon
> ——
> Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
> physical evidenceinto a coherent and unified history.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
Are you claiming to speak for Dr. Jekyll Keren?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:43 PST 1996
Article: 83356 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Jews from two of these transports were gassed’
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:17:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
[re: a document posted by Dr. Keren, snipped]

This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
beings. Better luck next time.

I replied:

Rubbish.

Hans Frank, The Governer-General of Poland, made explicit
reference to both the extermination of Jews and the upcoming
Wansee conference in a speech on December 16th, 1941:

… One way or another, I will tell you that quite openly,
we must finish off the Jews.[etc]

Yes…what of it? This coulod mean anything. Harsh words were
spoken by all the various nationalities before, during, and after the
war. I suggest you access Deja News and read my old post:
“Let’s be frank about Frank.”

rblackmore then retorted:

And this is your “proof”? A comment from the bombasitc frank,
who had no authority to issue orders to either the Gestapo,
Security Police, or OrdnungsPolizei?

I see you have totally missed the point yet again, mr. blackmore.
I’ll explain so even you can understand. I did not insist that this
speech was ‘proof’ of the holocaust. it merely corroborates two things:

Really, Mr. Harmon?-rb

1) that the Nazis planned to exterminate the Jews of Europe;

Are you saying that Frank had the authority to speak for every Nazi
in Europe, or that he was influential enough to dictate policies? Is that
what you are asking us to believe? Are you also asking us to believe
that Frank was aware of a policy to exterminate the Jews in a physical
sense?

2) that
the Wansee conference planned this extermination.

The Wahnsinn Wannsee Conference planned no such thing.

In case you are still confused, let me sketch the history of
this discussion for you:

I am not confused.

Danny Keren posted a document about Brack, who instructed
that personnel from the t4 euthanasia program would report
to him on implementing the decisions made at the Wansee
conference.

And the source for this document? Who discovered it, when, and
where? And the names of the persons who processed it? You see, I
am very wary of your documents for good reasons.

You insisted that the document must be a fake because it
claims that the program of extermination was outlined at
the Wansee conference.

I then provided a speech from Hans Frank, the man
in charge of Nazi occupied Poland, where he explicitly
makes reference to exterminating the Jews and the Wansee
conference _before the conference took place_.

Well, then your document must certainly be a fake, as Frank knew
nothing about the details of the Conference before they were discussed.
Even Eichmann allegedly had to take notes of a more or less “free
discussion”……Unless you attribute to Frank the qualities of a
Rasputin or Svengali—or is that coming next?

You claimed Dr. Keren’s document was a forgery. I produced
a speech that said basically the same thing with respect to
Wansee. Will you now insist that Frank’s speech is a forgery
as well?

Sadly, you can’t wish all this evidence away.

Nor can you wish something as proof.-rb

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:44 PST 1996
Article: 83357 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the screams and groans of the people died away’
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:18:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Hauptschrfuehrer Gustav Labs
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison gas, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 87]
> ———————————————————-
> Then Burstinger, who had reappeared from the cellar passage,
> came up to me. He ordered me to start the engine and to leave
> it running for about twelve minutes. I did what I was told,
> and a minute later I heard terrible screams and groans coming
> from the interior. I got frightened and jumped out of the
> driver’s cab. I realized that the exhaust had been directed
> to the interior of the van to kill the people inside. Bothmann*
> yelled at me, “Have you gone mad?”. He told me to get back
> behind the wheel. I did so and waited. I didn’t dare to do
> anything, because I was afraid of Bothmann. Gradually, after
> some minutes, the screams and groans of the people died away.
>
> * SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hans Bothmann.
>
>
>
>>>>
Mr. Keren only quotes from the most impartial sources.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:45 PST 1996
Article: 83386 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: “Make way, you German swine!”
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:32:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here is a newspaper report on the American occupation
at Aachen, after the city fell…..

Aachen under the Eisenhower knout
__________________________

Jews and Emigrants Terrorize the City
Furniture and Valuables Seized; “Make
Way, you German Swine!”

“In the ruins of the town of Aachen, taken by the
Americans after a bitter weeks-long struggle, the
remains of German life are being systematically
beaten down by the Eisenhower reign of terror.
As previously in the western border villages of the
Aachen area, groups of Jews and emigrants have
appeared in the wake of the American occupation
forces. Their sole function is to terrorize the few
Germans who are still in the town and to brutally
exterminate all memory of their previous life.

The population are living as veritable pariahs.
Only for the Americans is any electricity, gas,
or water available. The few homes that were
not destroyed were requisitioned. Eyewitnesses
who succeeded in getting through to the German
lines report that the removal of furniture and valuables
began immediately. Economic life is completely dead.
Such supplies as were still in the town were requisitioned
by the American troops. The people are enduring unspeakable
hunger, and American officers and men tell them laighingly to
go and forage for something to fill their bellies.

Anton Forbach, 46, one of the few who have escaped since
the capture of the town, made the followinf statement about
his experiences in Aachen:

“I tried to get myself something to eat, but all the shops were
closed or destroyed. The American soldiers paid no attention
to me. They had enough to do getting themselves “souvenirs”.
But one Jewish officer who came up to me forced me into the
street with the words, “Make way, you German swine!”, and
took a crack at me with a riding whip. In the ruins of the
Cathedral I saw a group of drunken soldiers. Some of them
were carving their names on the wall with bayonets……”

From: Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, 1954

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:46 PST 1996
Article: 83438 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Old Man Winter
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:57:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here is the treatment a respected and elderly
German Industrialist received from his beneficent
American captors:

While searching through the old man’s hunting
lodge, American ransackers discovered some
toothpaste and and a few old shells. Using this
as the pretext, they compelled the old ,man to
do exhausting manual labor in the snow, clearing
roads. At night he was placed into a damp, freezing
jail cell. One evening he feebly protested that the air
in the cell was very foul, so the Americans considerately
smashed the windows and left him locked in the tiny
cell, freezing, in the middle of winter.

Source: The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:46 PST 1996
Article: 83455 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:24:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Fragano
> Ledgister) wrote:
>
> > Sara aka Perrrfect ([email protected]) wrote:
> > : In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Fragano
> > : Ledgister) wrote:
> >
> >
> > : >
> > : > This leads me to the basic question about the blood libel:
> > : > What were Jews supposed to have eaten before there were any
> > : > Christian babies?
> >
> > : A little stuffed cabbage and some cool spring water.
> > :
> > : Just ask Mel Brooks.
> > :
> > : Sara
> >
> > Which film?
> >
>
> No film, it’s from the 2013 Year Old Man (LP, CD, etc.)
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> Christian religion.”
> George Washington, 1796
>
>>>>
I thought it was from “The Hitler Rap”.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:47 PST 1996
Article: 83456 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You’re to be disinfected!
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:37:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd33-025.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 29 Nov 1996 18:31:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

..
>
>
> >Look who’s calling someone stupid-Danny and his porno collection.
> >Now, as to your comment-read again-“We saw some SS men, Green
> >uniforms, black uniforms,”
> >Another liar, just like you. A liar who quotes liars.
>
> No. Wrong again. Just another lying, lowlife, scumbag, nazi
> apologist. (Yawn) How unsurprising.
>
>
>>>>
How unsurprising that you respond the way you do.-rb

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 06:49:48 PST 1996
Article: 83474 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:23:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Leprechan) writes:
On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 14:32:29 -0500, Amazon
wrote:

> That issue has to be defined much more narrowly than that. There
> are atheists who claim they are jewish by tribal definition of
> membership. There are those who claim it be religion only and have no
> mother/child relationship to anyone who ever lived in Palestine.

The State of Israel defines a Jew as a child born of a Jewish mother.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 11:38:00 PST 1996
Article: 83504 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: “A Heart of Stone”
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:48:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Johann Cerfontaine, the man the Jewish American
soldiers dispossessed from his home and lifelong
business, along with his family, leaves this disturbing
account of how he pleaded with the Jewish officer,
Edward Springer, to have compassion on his family:

“It is not merely heartbreaking to have everything taken
away from me after all I have endured. The events of the
past few days leave me in a state of complete confusion…
Since I recovered from the first shock, I have done all I
could, considering my impotent position, to reason with
Captain Springer…..Captain Springer is as coldly brutal
as Captain Sadoul and Herr Nair, who seems to be a sort
of Gestapo working with him…..

The second time I visited Captain Springer, after he made
an outcast beggar of me, I entered his-that is to say, my-
office in the most respectful manner and asked if I could
look for something in the safe. He gave me the keys, and I
think I surprised him when I took out a tiny, half-finished sock
on needles stuck into a ball of pink wool, on which my wife
had been busy during the bombardment when she was
camping in the air-raid cellar.

I said: “May I remove this?-It is for the child.” The meaning
of my symbolic act- that he was ruining the life not only of my-
self but of innocent little ones-escaped him altogether. He merely
nodded and went back to his writing.

Since then I have sent my wife with the children to make the
simple humanitarian appeal in a more direct fashion. She was
unable to keep herself from weeping unashamedly before him,
and when the children saw it, they wept also. But none of this
made any difference, He has a heart of stone……

Captain Springer has today put a man on the door of my building-
a Communist, of all things in the world-with instructions to keep me
and all members of my family out.”

From: Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.44.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 11:38:01 PST 1996
Article: 83505 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:51:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> Gord McFee ([email protected]) wrote:
> : In message <57n[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
>
> : :> “We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
> : :>national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other,
> : :>thus giving room for our own people.”
> : :>
> : :>(Rabbi Reichorn, in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)
> :
> : Readers will once again notice that Mr. Blackmore, rather than pursue the
> : debate he started, realizes he has been shown the fool–again–and has to
> : resort to posting sayings from non-existent Rabbis.
>
> We now have two quotes from “Rabbi Reichorn,” saying almost exactly
> the same thing twenty-one years apart. Windy son-of-a-bitch, wasn’t
> he?
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
Just like you, who keeps repeating the same nonsense over
and over, even though you are proven wrong on practically
every occasion. BTW, are you definitively saying that Rabbi
Reichorn never existed?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 11:38:02 PST 1996
Article: 83506 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer’s Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:28:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> steve griff writes:
> Kurt Stele wrote:
> >
> > On 30 Nov 1996 00:03:39 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > >What is OSS-the Office of Stupid Shits?
> >
> > Rather the Office of Soviet Stooges.
> >
> > Kurt Stele
> >
>
> It’s a wonder you even partially understand history.
>
> The Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was established on June 13, 1942 as
> an operating agency of the U.S. Government under the direction and
> supervision of the Joint Cheifs of Staff. Among its responsibilities were:
> Psychological warfare, intelligence gathering, and progressive and orderly
> development of operating procedures and the characteristics of special
> weapons and special equipment for the special operations not assigned, or
> pertinent to, other US Government agencies.
>
>>>>
We both knew that. How can you be so naive?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 11:38:03 PST 1996
Article: 83507 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:50:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> Sara aka Perrrfect ([email protected]) wrote:
> : In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> :
> :
> :
> : > When are you going to admit your affiliation with a synagogue?
> : > Or don’t you have the cajones, pendejo?
> :
> : Mr./Ms. Blackmore/Belling/Bellinger, not content to insult people in
> : English, has now moved to elementary Spanish.
> :
> : Did you learn these words on the subway?
>
> No problem, Sara. As we know, Mr. Belling has over 40,000 books–
> one of them MUST be a Spanish-English dictionary.
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
That’s 40-65,000. If I didn’t know better, I would think you are envious.
By the way, I speak 3 languages besides English.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 13:59:30 PST 1996
Article: 83539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore lies again (Was Re: Jewish author on Germany)
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:16:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
On 2 Dec 1996 11:24:45 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <57qq[email protected]> – [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken)
writes:

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes
In message <57[email protected]> – 1996 08:53:32 GMT writes:

Badly. Seems they were all at your house. Hope you bought
enough butter to butter your bagel.

That the best you can do?

Tell him that you a pre-pubescent boy in search of a 13 year old girl.
That might sweeten him up a bit.

By God, for all the rubbish that transpires in this newsgroup, all the
unsubstantiated BS, *that* particular one has been supported by a reference to
the DejaNews location. Why has Mr. Blackmore not explained why he was posting
in the alt.arcadia newsgroup searching for teenaged boys?

I’ll tell you why: because I didn’t, silly man. Why are you
wasting people’s time with this nonsense? If this is the only
way you can respond to my posts, I feel sorry for you.

Of course you lie, Mr. Bellinger. Badly, as usual, but you lie.

DejaNews reveals the following:

http://xp8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3966157&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=849543915
.29413&hitnum=1
>
> Subject: look and you shall see…
> From: [email protected]
> Date: 1996/07/29
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: Sprynet News Service
> Newsgroups: acadia.chat
>
> hello ? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me . i am thirteen and …
> well
> if you e-mail me at [email protected]
>
> you can find out more about me i am a female.
>
> And from your [email protected] id comes the following:
>
>
http://xp8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=2172177&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=849543805
.26554&hitnum=0
>
> Subject: sex
> From: [email protected]
> Date: 1996/07/21
> Message-Id: <[email protected]>
> Organization: Sprynet News Service
> Newsgroups: alt.teens
>
>
> why is everything [almost] about sex ? e- mail me sometime 14/F i
> always write back
>
>
>
>>>>
And you really think that I wrote that? Are you really that
naive, Mr. McFee? I don’t think so, but go again and prove
me wrong and tell me you believe it. If so, I think I have found
the reason why you post some of the things you do on alt revisionism.
BTW, the remark about sex seems to be opposed to a discussion
concerning the same. And now, if you really must know who wrote it,
it was my niece, who happened to be visiting our home at the time.
Isn’t it peculiar that the only posts from a teenage girl all come from the
same short time period with no additional posts afterwards?
However, I must warn you-she just might be visiting over the coming
holidays, so perhaps you will have more grist for your mill.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 15:26:35 PST 1996
Article: 83559 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:45:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article ,
[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

[snip]

You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.

Poor potty training?

> > From a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?
>
> Mr. Belling, cleaning toilets in a house of God can hardly be deemed
> unworthy.

You are so humble. One can read it in your posts.

So if I were to clean them, I would hardly be ashamed of it.

Besides, it sure beats licking Nazi boots. How’s that tongue of yours?
Still sore from getting stepped on? Next time you might try asking Mr.
Smith to stand still….

Why would I ask
Mr. Smith anything of the sort, since I never see him?

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:39 PST 1996
Article: 83566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the motor was then switched on by Gotringer’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:10:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[snip]

The best proof that _anything_ that Dr. Keren posts is true is that
Mr. Blackmore denies it.

Since his unfortunate return to this newsgroup we have been regaled
with countless one-liners. His 145,000 book library must have
vanished like a thief in the night!
> > >
> > > Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling’s “library” consists of _comic_ book?
> > > That might help explain his “countless one-liners.” One is what one
> > > reads….
> > >
> > >>>>
> > If they are comic books, they are doubtlessly more informative than
> > the sources you rely upon, which aren’t even good enough for
> > comic books.
>
> Even if Mr. Belling’s lame reparte, were true (which it most definetely is
> not) the gentle reader would certainly be unable to tell, as Mr. Belling
> has to date failed to post anything more informative (of Mr. Belling’s
> character) than a pack of transparant Nazi proganda and lies.

Not all your colleagues would agree with you.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:40 PST 1996
Article: 83569 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:47:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > You are wrong again, as usual. this is getting to be a habit with you.
> > The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.
>
> Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
> can’t hear you… the cat got your tongue?
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
I gave you the source in a previous post.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:40 PST 1996
Article: 83570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Some bodies fell out’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:07:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 151
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:

Daniel Keren wrote:

Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first
gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW’s were murdered
[snip]

Mr. Blackmore then responded with a long list of demands:

Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
who made these comments. If he was ever charged with crimes
himself, or if he “plea bargained” and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources.

I replied:

Such demands, Mr. Blackmore! Are you incapable of researching
this yourself, or simply unwilling?

Rblackmore retorted:

Your friends made the accusation. now they must convince the
skeptics.

Dr. Keren provided you with a testimony, complete with
full references. You then _speculate_ that he said this
as some sort of ‘plea bargain’ to save his own skin.

If you believe this, research it yourself.

I continued:

While we’re on the subject of demands, why don’t we get down
to brass tacks on some issues that you and I have discussed?

I remember quite distinctly you promised to provide proof
for the following assertsion of yours:

1) Kremer was not responsible for the conditions at Bergen-Belsen,
rather he did what he could to help the inmates.

This was certainly supplied in depth and I will not go into the
subject again. I refer the reader to previous posts on this subject.
Research them on Deja News. Are you really that dense, Mr. Harmon?

Actually, it was not supplied in depth at all. You insisted
that Kremer could not have supplied food to the inmates,
despite the fact that food was availabel. You insisted that
Kremer could not supply water to the inmates, despite the
fact that the British used equipment _in the camp_ to supply
it. You insisted that Kremer did what he could to help,
despite teh fact that starving, sick inmates were forced to
work without food or water.

You obviously never bothered to read or confirm anything I wrote.
I’d advise you to reread and research.

The only evidence you have provided for this assertion is Kremer’s
own testimony.

Untrue.

I stand corrected. You insisted that the river was polluted,
and that the British were able to supply the camp with water
only after they used ‘filtering apparatuses’ that Kremer did
not have.

Your citation for this claim was Matt Giwer, who simply
made it up.

I later expanded on this theme considerably and referred to british
authoritites which confirmed my speculation. I advise more research on your
part.

He is contradicted by the testimony of his
subordinates and soldiers who liberated the camp. Additionally,
the fact that inmates were forced to work without food or water
also makes things look bad for Kremer.

Work? what? Bury bodies which had died due to infectious disease?

By forcing the sickest and the weakest people, i.e. the
inmates to do all the work, thereby insuring that they would
drop like flies? interesting logic.

This is certainly not true. It was stated during the trial that the weakest
were NOT compelled to work.

I won’t debate this any further. it has already been debunked.

Declaring victory and running away, are we?

I advise you to pull all the old posts relating to this subject and
read carefully.

2) Auschwitz testimonies discussing mass gassings are unreliable.

The only evidence you have provided is your multi-part
‘Soviet Def Comed Jam’ containing your favorite allegedly
absurd eyewitness testimonies. These documents, oddly enough,
make no mention of Auschwitz at all, which leads me to wonder
how they can be relevant.

Do you confirm or deny the contents of the reports?

What reports? the snippets of eyewitness testimony taken
out of context that hs nothing to do with Auschwitz?

Mr. Stele posted an excerpt from the Nuremberg charges concerning
Jackson’s charge that thousands of Jews had been vaporized outside
of Auschwitz.

No, they are not taken out of context. i again invite you to research
before you make comments.

Quite frankly, I don’t care about those testimonies.
What i was expecting from you was your evidnce that
_Auschwitz_ testimony was unreliable.

I intend to get into that, but as of date, no one is paying me
for my research dervices.

So is shooting them, as the Nazis found out. Why do you think
> >> they then constructed the large industrial killing centers of
> >> Auschwitz, Treblinka, and so on?
> >
> >Prove that these were killing installations. why is there no
> >forensic evidence to prove your claims?
>
> Forensic evidence? You mean like the experiments carried out
> by the Institute for Forensic Research in Crackow showing
> cyanide in the homicidal gas chambers and not elsewhere?

No, sir, Evidence of gas was found in many areas. this evidence of
yours, when looked at objectively, does not suffice as proof of your claims.
Evidence if gas was found in the kommandants quarters. Does this mean he and
his family were gassed?
>
> Why is there no forensic evidence proving that Dresden
> was bombed?

Of course your question is irrelevant and ridiulous and mean to
provoke and you and everyone else knows it. Do some research,
Mr. Harmon.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:41 PST 1996
Article: 83571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:08:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
>
> >Are you claiming to speak for Dr. Jekyll Keren?
>
> And this is a man who once whined about the use
> of insults in this forum?
>
> hypocrite.
>
> – Brian
>
>
>>>>
Look who’s calling the kettle black.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:42 PST 1996
Article: 83579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:19:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office,
> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001]
> ————————————————————————
> A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives
> weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the
> Security Service of white Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there
> are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another
> S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty
> gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky
> already.
>
>
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
The only “Difficulty” here is believing in these fairy tale
gas vans.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:43 PST 1996
Article: 83581 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:19:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
[email protected] (Nizkor’s handler) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

Considering that Hitler’s “Euthanasia” program killed the mentally
disabled without their (or their relatives’) consent, clearly evidences
the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.

No, if you read the recent book “Death and Deliverance” you will find infor
which shows that it was the pleadings of parents and victims which prompted Hitler
to sign the law into effect. The first cases which prompted the law were the pleas
of a family named Krause-both parents and grandmother pleaded for euthanasia for
the child-who was somehow hopelessly deformed, and had no possibility of recovery.
Another quoted case was of a man who fell into a cement mixer and was living in
agony every day of his life. it was cases such as these which prompted the law.
I see little difference in this than pulling the plug from karen Quinlan, or the activities
of Dr. Kevorkian. however, the difference with Kevorkian is that he is acting
outside of the law.

When the person is a ward of the state, as was the case in these
cases, relatives have no say in the legal treatment.

Hitler’s “Euthanasia” program was state sponsored murder.

You folks are rather too foolish to deal with the law. Murder is
defined in law. Euthansia in accordance with law is not murder.
Abortion in accordance with law is not murder.

Was the euthanasia a legal treatment ? Then, why did they hide the
real cause of the death to the relatives, trying to keep the secret ?

The Hitler’s text wasn’t a law. How could Clemens August and many
others lodge complaints for murder if a real law existed ?

It was law. The law was later rescinded.

And your cite for this is, Mr. Belling? What, don’t have one? How
unsurprising, especially given the following:

> “With the collaboration of Dr. Herbert Linden, the specialist in affairs
> concerning the mentally ill at the Interior Ministry and a member of the
> Reich committee for ‘children euthanasia,’ Bouhler and Brandt put together
> a list of physicians whom they considered suitable, on a basis of their
> opinions and their professional qualifications, to take part in the
> proposed operation….
>
> “Bouhler and Brandt had probably benn choesn because they belonged to the
> Fu”hrer’s Chancellery, so that Hitler’s private chancellery and not some
> public administration would be responsible for the messures to be adopted.
> It would thus be much easier to keep these measures secret, as they would
> be outside state control.”
>
> “…The proposed methods of killing were explained to the physicians, and
> it was made clear that Hitler refused- for political reasons -to make the
> measures law, and that absolute secrecy was required. The physicians were,
> however, given assurances that they would be safe from any criminal
> prosecution.” (Kogon, _Nazi Mass Murder_, p.15.)
> Like I said: Hitler’s “Euthanasia” program was state sponsored murder.

No. It was law for a brief period.
The law was rescinded after numerous complaints lodged by the
public and Bishop Galen, as well as famed German war ace, Molders.
Source: Vorsicht! Faelschung! Munich.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:43 PST 1996
Article: 83583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I could have danced all Night
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:51:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
Hans Frank. Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
wrote:

“The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto.”

Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.

Of course neither of Schwartz’s allegations was
true. He must have attended the same SHAEF
meetings as Chuckles Feree,

Ad hominems do not an argument make, Mr. Belling. However, I suppose as
that ad hominems are all you seem to have left in you quiver, that’s what
getting painful watching you hit the same foot all the time….)

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:13:44 PST 1996
Article: 83584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:48:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > The Criminal Giwer rewrites some more history:
> > On 1 Dec 1996 08:38:09 GMT, [email protected] (Brian Harmon) wrote:
>
> > >>What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly
taken of the speech in question.

This has been discussed in the past, i believe Matt Giwer
made similar statements.

A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:

Himmler’s Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser
(whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
the costs of the analysis.

Are you game?

When it was discussed here about a year ago, it was stated the
speaker had not been identified and that there was an effort to
collect the money for a voice print identification.

Wrong. You claimed that the tape was a forgery. Your first argument
was that tape recording had not been developed. Then you just made the
blanket statement that it was not authentic.

Two months ago, when I repeated that year ago holohugger position,
the holohuggers claimed that I was giving a false recounting and that
it had been positively identified.

It has been,

Now we have come full circle with the admission that the speaker
has not been identified.

There is nothing in Harmon’s post that even indicates that. The tape is
of a speech by Himmler. The only ones who say otherwise are a minority of
deniers, principally the criminal Giwer and “blackmore.”

> > This appears to be a variation upon the truth of the month club.
>
> The truth is the criminal Giwer claimed the tape was a forgery. When
> challenged to put his assertion to a scientific test, he shut up like a clam. The
> exchange is preserved in its entirety on Nizkor. This, of course, is another reason
> that the criminal Giwer goes into a paranoid rage whenever he hears the URL
> which exposes his lies so thoroughly:
>
> https://nizkor.org
>
> –YFE
>
>
>
>>>>
All rightie, then….Mr. E. claims that becuase we do not come forth
with the hundreds of thousands of dollars to subject this recording
to detailed analysis, we are somehow in error…..Let’s turn this argument
around for the sake of argument:

A tape was introduced as evidence that it is Himmler speaking at Posen.
The tape is accepted into evidence and noted.
A leading German general who worked closely with Himmler stated under
oath that he was not sure that the voice was that of Himmler.
The tape was never subjected to analysis at the time to determine if
it was authentic.
Some 45 years later it resurfaces and is now used as “proof”.
Revisionists question the use of this source and the circumstances
surrounding its discovery and placing into evidence.
Now, Mr. E and his ilk expect us to pay the expensive costs of
determining whether the tape was tampered with.

Lets look at it this way now:

Jewish people have been accused by many authors of baking
blood into matzoh during the course of alleged ritual murder.
Would anyone hold it reasonable to now begin subjecting maztzoh
cakes around the world to chemical analysis? And how much
more absurd it would be if we expected the jewish people to pay
for this task.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 17:38:39 PST 1996
Article: 83585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:54:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Richard Schultz) writes:
> Yale F. Edeiken ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> : You have ignored the point of both the original challenge and Power’s
> : fine post (athough it should be noted that the proposal was made by
> : Ken McVay for Nizkor. I just reiterated it on the supposition that it
> : has never been withdrawn).
>
> As I recall, the original proposal (made in the heady days of Tim
> “newel post” McCarthy) was that the anti-revisionists would put up
> half the money, and the revisionists would put up the other half. The
> anti-revisionist half was covered in a matter of days, and the
> revisionist half. . . well, you can guess what happened. Sort of the
> “Brave Sir Robin” approach, if you will.
>
> —–
> Richard Schultz [email protected]
> Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
> Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
> —–
> “A fly, sir, may sting a stately horse, and make him wince; but one is but an
> insect, and the other is a horse still.” — Samuel Johnson
>
>>>>
And a flea on a dog’s ass will keep him itching.

From [email protected] Tue Dec 3 18:19:31 PST 1996
Article: 83588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:56:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:

>
> I am certainly not outraged by your flaccid insults though I am
> annoyed that you seem to have to post so many useless messages.
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Then advise your colegues to act like ladies and gentlemen-you
included.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:39 PST 1996
Article: 83623 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:52:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <57srb[email protected]> – [email protected] Dec 1996
> 20:55:22 GMT writes:
> :>
> :> [email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
> :>
> :> A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:
> :>
> :> Himmler’s Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
> :> to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser
> :> (whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
> :> the costs of the analysis.
>
> [deleted]
>
> :>I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
> :>analysis years ago…..However, what will this prove? A clever interpolator,
> :>using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
> :>the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
> :>guilty party would confess to the deed….
>
> Exactly the slithering, whining, gutless response one would have expected from
> a “brave” truth-seeking denier. Thanks for confirming your moral cowardice,
> Mr. Blackmore. You know very well that proper analysis can eliminate any
> possibility of interpolation, but you, like your denier colleagues, run like
> hell when faced with the possibility of empirical analysis that you can’t
> fake. How disgustingly predictable.
>
> [cowardly denier lies deleted]
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
As usual, you over- react.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:40 PST 1996
Article: 83630 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:11:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article , [email protected] (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

[email protected] writes:

Ask your friends at the synagogue. Why ask me? BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?

Germany first launched its aggression against Czechoslovakia, which
Britain and France were obligated by treaty to protect but did not,
and then Poland, which Britain and France were obligated by treaty
to protect, at which point they did the honorable thing. You have a
problem with this?

OK. Poland annexed Tschen at the same time which was also part
of Czechoslovakia, and other European countries grabbed slices of
the severed state as well. So the British and French would have been
obligated to attack them as well. Also, the Soviet Union invaded Poland
>from the east, and your “honorable” friends were obligated to declare war
on them as well. Instead, your buddies Roosevelt and Churchill simply handed
Poland over to Stalin on a silver platter at the end of the war. And you say
that the war began over Poland’s right to sovernignity? Thats a good one, Mark.
> >
> > >National News Service. 135,000. 1996.
> >
> > Is this what you call a citation, Jane? I’m afraid you’re going
> > to have to repeat this course.

It’s better than your Larson report citation, Dick.
> >
> > >I will not do your research for you. Look up the original reports of the
> > >authorities in Dresden who had to dispose of the bodies. However, that
> > >won’t do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
> >
> > I thought you were attributing your figure to some 1996 source. In
> > previous messages you talked about recent research. You could at
> > least try to be consistent with your fantasies.

As you try to be in yours?
> >
> > >Oooh…the facts hurt don’t they?
> >
> > Oooh, I don’t know. Why don’t you try including a few in your
> > postings, so we can find out?

I know you are but what am I?
>
> LOL!
>
> Oh, I suppose it’s because Mr. Belling’s tolerance for pain is a bit low….
>
> What a Nazi wimp.

Name caller.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:41 PST 1996
Article: 83635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:46:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article ,
[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

[snip]

Poor potty training?

From a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?

Mr. Belling, cleaning toilets in a house of God can hardly be deemed
unworthy.

You are so humble. One can read it in your posts.

So if I were to clean them, I would hardly be ashamed of it.

Besides, it sure beats licking Nazi boots. How’s that tongue of yours?
Still sore from getting stepped on? Next time you might try asking Mr.
Smith to stand still….

Why would I ask
Mr. Smith anything of the sort, since I never see him?

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:42 PST 1996
Article: 83643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:32:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Gord
> McFee) wrote:
>
> > In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
> > (william c anderson)2 Dec 1996 16:13:00 GMT writes:
> > :>
> > :>Mr. Blackmore’s predictable response to the “Put up or shut up”
> > :>challenge:
> > :>
> > :>: I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
> > :>: analysis years ago…..However, what will this prove? A clever
> interpolator,
> > :>: using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
> > :>: the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
> > :>: guilty party would confess to the deed….
> > :>
> > :>Uh-huh. Do I hear the familiar sound of a denier backpedaling?
> >
> > You hear the familiar sound of a coward slithering away.
> >
> > [deleted]
>
> Eh? Somebody flushed the toilet?

So Mark by his implied admission will now rush to clean it.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:43 PST 1996
Article: 83657 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The dead would no longer be buried
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:52:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-042.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 30 Nov 1996 00:16:02 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> >Is this part of the soon to be published religious book Shoah?
> >Sounds like the Roman Martyrology to me.
>
> Sounds more like a lying, lowlife, scumbag, nazi apologist has
> spent all his bullets, has nothing left in in arsenal, and is
> reduced to spamming the newsgroup to me.
>
>>>>
Poor obsessive neurotic Kenny….

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:43 PST 1996
Article: 83659 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:20:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> > That’s 40-65,000. If I didn’t know better, I would think you are envious.
> > By the way, I speak 3 languages besides English.
>
> Well… whether or not you actually speak English is still under some
> discussion.
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> Christian religion.”
> George Washington, 1796
>
>>>>
You are part of the discussion group?

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:44 PST 1996
Article: 83661 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:38:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-249.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 3 Dec 1996 21:54:08 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> >And a flea on a dog’s ass will keep him itching.
>
> That would explain your constant scratching!
>
>>>>
I wouldn’t go anywhere near your ass.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:45 PST 1996
Article: 83663 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:23:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> Chuck Ferree writes:
> Chuck writes:
>
> The “thing” from tha black lagoon lies…it told me in personal e-mail
> that it owned between 400 & 500 thousand books. Maybe in the prison
> library.
>
>
> william c anderson wrote:
> >
> > Sara aka Perrrfect ([email protected]) wrote:
> > : In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> who cares!!!
> >
>
>>>>
Chuck-now I see you for a complete liar and fabricator, and
>from this day on will never regard anything you say as worthy
of any credibility. You are simply a liar. Now, I ask you to post
the e-mail message you allegedly received from me. You just
screwed yourself, mr. High and Might “Eyewitness.” I am saving this
post as evidence of your total incredibility. Unless you want to prove
that you are still capable of being a gentleman and admit that you
lied or were simply trying to be facetious.-rb

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 05:22:45 PST 1996
Article: 83666 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:31:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <57sqo[email protected]> – [email protected] Dec 1996
20:44:56 GMT writes:

Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
Ibokor wrote:

When I checked the Larousse dictionary in a bookshop
in Freiburg im Breisgau in September this year, I
found, as I posted, that ausrotten was rendered into
French as extirper, exterminer;.

I then asked you, Monsieur, to explain the difference
in meanings between the French verb exterminer
and the English verb to exterminate.

To this date, your response has not appeared at this site.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 06:08:22 PST 1996
Article: 83668 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:49:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 51
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

as an
equivalent to ‘order’.” And according to Richard Schulze-Kossens: “The
verbal expression ‘der Fu”hrer wu”nscht,’ ‘es ist des Fu”hrers Wunsch ist’

And click your heels three times and repeat: “There’s no place like
Berchtesgaden…..

The “Fuehrer’s Wish”, and if he wished all grass turned into dollar bills,
that would have happened as well…go peddle your fairy tales elsewhere.

Mr. Belling, obviously flustered by his inability to offer a credible
rebuttal (sadly due to his apparent cognitive disabilities), in true Homo
Rabidus style, quickly falls back to argumentum ad hominen. Unfortuantely,
substituing name calling and innuendo for an intelligent and credible
argument is generally indicative of a mind of with the intellectual and
emotional abilities of two year-old.

No, I expect more proof than your recitation of an event clipped
out of time and space with no further documentation.

[which is the Fu”hrer’s wish]…are identical in menaing. Although these
are not direct orders, they are nonetheless, to be interpreted as such. If
, therefore, he were to tell me to signal the Leibstandarte [Hiltrer’s
bodyguard] …’it is my wish that they do this and that immediately,’ then
the commander of the Leibstandarte naturally would view this as an order.
The ‘wish’ is always communicated by a theird party and is not explicitly
passed on as a Fu”hrer-order. But it does indeed have the force of an a
order.”

This is better than what the genie offered in Alladin’s Lamp.

Fleming, _Hitler and the Final Solution_, pp.45-46.

Fleming-number one German hater and baiter, similar to Streicher and
the Jews. Streicher documented all his accusations against the jews
as well, if not better than Fleming.

Thanks for your reply. Typical non response.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 06:08:27 PST 1996
Article: 83670 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:26:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 06:08:28 PST 1996
Article: 83671 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:25:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
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References:
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> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>

> I mean, how utterly _stupid_ does one have to be to “misconstrue” the
> number of trees planted along The Avenue of the Righteous, in honor of the
> gentiles who risked their lives to save Jews from the Nazis, with the
> number of Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder?
>
> Evidently, at least as stupid as Mr. Belling appears to be….
>
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
Only you would take my comments on this subject seriously, mark.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 06:08:29 PST 1996
Article: 83672 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news.minn.net!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:38:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Richard Schultz) writes:
> Capt. Peter Peachfuzz ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> : What is there to put up? The very existance [sic] of the challenge
> : is an admission that the speaker has not been identified.
>
> Hello? Is anybody home? I didn’t think so.
>
> The speaker in the Poznan speeches has been identified to the satisfaction
> of anyone with at least half a brain — which, even if we include the
> parts of yours that unfortunately seem to have been trashed by your
> Korsakov’s, you sadly are lacking. In fact, the people who issued
> the challenge are so sure that the speaker has been identified (and
> correctly) that they are willing to pay for the cost of the analysis should
> the identification prove to be wrong. That the “revisionists” refuse to
> answer the challenge indicates (as usual — hence the cognomen above) that
> you have it exactly backwards.
>
> Anyway, when are you going to either post the lie you said I posted here,
> or retract your claim? Or have you suddenly changed your opinion about the
> morality of libel?
>
> —–
> Richard Schultz [email protected]
> Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
> Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
> —–
> “I’ve lost my harmonica, Albert.”
>
>>>>
Give us a break Mr. Shultz. This tape should have been subjected
to extensive testing to prove its authenticity when it was entered into
evidence at nuremberg, but, how can Satan cast out Satan? You would
subject the tape to examination to the same people who may have forged it?
Are you so naive?

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 08:28:01 PST 1996
Article: 83673 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news1.transpac.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Becker Implements National Socialism
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:30:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff,
16 May 1942 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S
Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
——————————————————————-
I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers by
putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small van and
two on each side of the large vans, such as one often sees on farm
houses in the country. The vans became so well known, that not only
the authorities but also the civilian population called the van “death
van”, as soon as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the
van cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even
camouflaged…

Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the men
were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so they should
not suffer damage to their health by the gas which eventually would
escape. I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following
to your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the
application of gas done by their own men. I brought to the attention
of those S.K [Special Kommando] concerned the immense psychological
injuries and damages involved to their health that this work can have
for those men, even if not immediately, at least later on. The men
complained to me about head-aches which appeared after each unloading.
Nevertheless they don’t want to change the orders, because they are
afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune moment to
flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request orders to be
issued accordingly.
>
> The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to
> come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator
> to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer
> death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My
> directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers
> death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted
> faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer
> noticed.
>
>
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
The so-called gas vans are really one of the most unbelievable
aspects of the Holocaust. There are a number of reasons for this,
the first and foremost being logistical. The effort involved in killing
small numbers of people by this method just would not produce the
desired results of wiping out vast populations quickly. It ought to
be noted that the German army had a number of gas vans attached
to particular combat sectors, which were used for delousing clothing
and field equipment in an area where typhus ran rampant since the
time of Napoleon. Perhaps the Soviets captured one or two of these
vans in damaged condition and then simply allowed their creative
imaginations to run wild.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 09:59:15 PST 1996
Article: 83684 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:12:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article ,
> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >
> > > This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.
> >
> > Isn’t it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
> > nonsense? He’s been beautifully trained, hasn’t he?
> >
> > Bet he can sit up and beg, too.
> >
> > Sara
>
> I’m working on it…. };->
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
The report came from Zundel, as you well know. Woof Woof

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 09:59:16 PST 1996
Article: 83686 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:00:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

I see you have chosen to single me out for your criticisms.

Perhaps this is because of your Nazi apologia and lies, eh, Mr.Belling?

The fact is, if I am treated with respect, I would treat you with respect
as well.

Small problem, Mr. Belling…. Becuase you continiously spew Nazi apologia
and lies (just before running away) you don’t _deserve_ any respect.

Perhaps if you _earned_ some respect, you might be shown it?

> > You have done your share of insulting and ridiculing people
> > on alt revisionism, and now have the gall to act as if your sensibilities
> > are outraged. Have you no shame?
>
> Given your ourageous Nazi apologia and lies, Mr. Belling, you rightly
> _deserved_ every insult and bit of ridicule. And speaking of gall… For a
> person who religiously spews blatant Nazi apologia and transparant lies,
> have _you_ no shame, Mr. Bellinger?

I do, Mark. On you. you are one of the few people
who sees truth, reason, and objectivity as “Nazi apologia”.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 09:59:17 PST 1996
Article: 83687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:17:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[mangled text snipped]

Mr. Belling, once again I would ask you please demonstrate a bit of
courtesy (and manual dexterity0 in properly formatting your responses.
Such continued lack of such a basic courtesy can obly be interpreted as a
willful ploy to obfuscate the discussion….

Take it up with the server.
>
> > It was law. The law was later rescinded.
> >
> > And your cite for this is, Mr. Belling? What, don’t have one? How
> > unsurprising, especially given the following:
> >
Read the testimony of Hans Lammers.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 10:19:23 PST 1996
Article: 83694 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:42:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:06:11 GMT, [email protected] (Harry W. Mazal OBE)
wrote:

On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during
the first world war.

Is that so? Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
positive about this. I believe that he cannot do this.

Joseph Bellinger has been unable to back up any of his/hers/its assertions.
Stating that the allies initiated gas warfare in WWI is an example of
why
cannot. However, it is most interesting watching him go down the ‘Giwer
path’ of unsupportable assertions.

As usual, you lie. The use of gas was begun by the French.

And your citation for this claim is, Mr. Belling? What, you don’t have
one? Oh, the shock! The dismay! The…. laughter!

> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
The info may be found in the book, “Vorsicht! Faelschung! Which I
have quoted from in the past. there. Now you have your source.
Will you pursue it? I doubt it.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 10:19:25 PST 1996
Article: 83695 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:39:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 303
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[Mr. Belling’s smelly dead fish snipped again]

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you’re words
don’t make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand: The Nazis claimed it
was the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews
were “getting their asses kicked” in the Soviet Union. Capisce?

And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany,
Mr. Belling?

Why are you asking me another question? You asked a question and I answered
it, and now you wish to deviate on to another subject?

Ask your friends at the synagogue. Why ask me? BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?

I’m asking _you_, Mr. Belling because _you_ made the (inane) claim that
“the Nazis claimed it was the Jews who were responsible for the war.”
Capisce?

Yes. Apparently not only the Nazis claimed it, but so did Prime Minister
Cahamberlain, according to an excerpt in the Forrestal diaries. Perhaps
certain people prominent in the jewish community declared that the Jews
were at war with the Nazis as well. 1,5 million Jews fighting in the various
allied armies against Nazi Germany wouldn’t serve as a form of confirmation
for you, would it, Mark?

Mr. Belling, that you try again and again to squirm away from answering
this simple question is simply indicative of that your claim is
indefensible -and that you know it.

[snip]

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the
face of a disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman,
in front of whatever family she has left.

I see. But then you glorify dead Nazis and defend their mass murder of
millions. Hardly suprising then that you’d like to taunt the Japanese
survivors of the atomic bombings.

I have NEVER-defended the proven murder of any defenseless human
beings-and you know it.

Oh-I am taunting the japanese? How quaint. I think it might be a
good point of reference if you first post the evidence that the Nazis
murdered millions of Jews and then tell us how they did it, and be sure to
include proof.

The evidence is in any public library, Mr. Belling. The evidence is in the
National Archives and other archives and museums across the UNuted States
and Europe. The evidence is on Nizkor and other similar websites. The
evidence is offered daily here in alt.revisionism.

Well that is what this forum is supposed to be about. Examining all those claims
and separating the wheat from the chaff. I don’t believe everything I see in print
or am told-you don’t either.

Yet you refuse to remove the Nazi scales from your eyes and _see_ the
evidence. Truly, one can lead a horse to water, but one cannot make it
drink….

There is certain evidence I do not contest, when I feel it has met the
burden of proof and reason.

i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
by Dr. Larson on “gassed” inmates at dachau….what? You misplaced
them?….Tsk, tsk.

Oh, no, Mr. Belling. hardly “misplaced.” It is in the Congressional Record
as I understand it. I thought that was made clear to you some time ago by
Mr. Edeiken? All _you_ have to do is go to a public (or university)
library that carries the Congressional Record, read it, and weep.

I won’t weep, I assure you. However, be clear that I expect to see a complete
result of toxicological tests establishing the presence of gas poisoning of victims
at Dachau. You know that this information is not contained in this record, or is
merely a paraphrasing. If this info was actually available it would have been
published by historians long ago. It is for this reason that I believe you simply
cannot meet the burden of proof which you placed upon your own shoulders.
And it was this burden which compelled you to remark that one day soon I would
eat crow pie.

C’mon, Mr. Belling! A little _research_ won’t hurt you. Much.

Nor will it hurt you. Provide these reports and the media will taut you
as a great researcher. You will achieve fame.

Dresden City Museum. 35,000. 1995.

National News Service. 135,000. 1996.

You mean like in the _Russian_ (!) National News Service? Care to give the date?

You’ll be happy to hear that the date was on the anniversary of the bombing of
Dresden.

BTW, you claimed “at least twice over the past 5 years.” I see only _one_
cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling….

My memory could have failed me.

For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
135,000, perhaps higher.

Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you?

There are a number of sources which may be citied. I believe there were German
red cross reports issued at the time, as well as the comments by Harris and other historians
such as —yes—David Irving.
> >
> > Already cited. How could I be any more embarrassed than you? A puppet
> > for a synagogue?
>
> Mr. Belling, citing “National News Service. 135,000. 1996” is a partial
> cite. It would be a bit more helpful if you also cited the date this claim
> was made, and if indeed the Nattional News Service in question is the
> Russian National News Service or not. (If not, _which_ “National News
> Service would it be?)

It wasn’t Russian, but they might have quoted the original estimates of the dead
to embarass the western powers in some way.
>
> BTW, you claimed “at least twice over the past 5 years.” I see only _one_
> cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling….
>
> I would also note, Mr. Belling, your anti-Semitic innuendo….

No, Mark, I am not anti-Semitic, much as you might wish it.
Why, I’d even welcome you in my home for dinner and discussion.
>
> >>> There never was an air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in
> >>> the whole history of modern warfare.
> >
> >> Oh please. Hamburg was a far worse. And all of the raids against German
> >> cities paled against the Toyko raid.
> >
> > Thanks for citing further atrocities. Dresden was by far the worse.
> > Revealing that you never mentioned any German air raids.
>
> Amazing. Stupifying even. First Mr. Belling “thanks” me for citing the
> bombing of Hamburg (which incurred more casualties than the 35,000 at
> Dresden) and then he says in the next breath that I “never mentioned any
> German air raids.”

Mark-the casualties sustained at Dresden was approxinately 135,000-maybe
more. I will cite you a proper source as soon as I find the one I am thinking of.
Also, all the German air raids conducted in the course of the war against the enemy
wound not amount to the number of dead sustained at Dresden. Shame on you.
>
> Is a frontal lobotomy a prerequisite to being a lying scumbag Nazi
> apologist or what?

More name calling.
>
> [snip]
>
> >>> You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
>
> No, Mr. Belling, you have supplied much hot air and a belated partial
> reference.
>
> >> No, yo have repeatedly made appeals to your non-existant authority. Sorry,
> >> Mr. Belling, but that dog don’t hunt. Please cite a specific source. Or is
> >> this too embarrassing for you?
> >
> > I will not do your research for you.
>
> Asking _you_ to cite the source for _your_ claims is a prerequisite to
> taking your claims seriously, Mr. Belling. Given that you have now
> (belatedly) supplied a partial (at best) reference, I can only now take
> your claim semi-seriously. It would behoove you to clarify and completely
> cite your references for your claim that the death toll from the Dresden
> raids was 135,000.

I have given you the date. The mention was made somewhere between 1985 and 1993.
I will quote other sources when convenient. I promise.
>
> That you kick and scream at every step in doing so, Mr. Belling, can only
> leave one to think that you are trying to hide something. Like maybe your
> “sources” are as bogus as you are?

No, they are not bogus. I simply don’t have all the info at my fingertips
nor a large organization to conduct the same for me. If I did, you would
really be “illin”…….
>
> > Look up the original reports of the authorities in Dresden who had to dispose
> > of the bodies.
>
> And which reports, specifically, were these, Mr. Belling?

I believe it was the German Red Cross.
>
> > However, that won’t do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
>
> That’s “shibboleth,” you cretin.

Typo-name caller. You never make any?

As in “the test word used by the men of
> Gilead to distinguish the escaping Ephramites, who pronounced the initial
> (sh) as (s): Judg. 12:4-6.” (cf. _Webster’s New World Dictionary_, Third
> College Edition.)
>
> [snip]
>
> >>>> But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
> >>>> attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
> >>>> tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
> >
> >>> No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths.
> >
> >> Since when did where the Axis death tolls restricted to military
> >> casulties? Since _you_ said so? Sorry, Mr. Belling go peddle your smelly
> >> dead fish elsewhere.

> >
> > Why should I, when the smell improves your stench?
>
> Ah, a (unintentional) admission that Mr. Belling does indeed try to
> side-track discussions away from his unsupported claims, Nazi apologia,
> and lies with red herrings and innuendo!

No, Mark it’s not.
>
> [snip]
>
> >>> The “citizens” were civilians. Your images are confused.
> > >
> > > Nope. I think perhaps it is _you_ who are confused. Obviusly you have
> > > mixed up the fact that Nazis did not consider German Jews citizens of the
> > > Reich with German nationals being members of the Axis by the fact that
> > > Germany, their country, had treaty obligations to such.
> >
> > We get your drift Herr Rebbe…..
>
> Sorry, Mr. Belling, but I’m not a Rabbi. I know very little about Jewish
> law outside the Old Testament in the King James Bible.

Perhaps we could form a Bible study group?
>
> >>> According to _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
> >>>
> >>> “…the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
> >>> World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy
> >>> (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
> >>> (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)”
> >>>
> >>> I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly _ignorant_ of
> >>> history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
> >>> Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
> >>> longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality?
> >>>
> >>> And who classifies babes in arms as the “axis”-you?
> >>
> >> German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling.
> >
> > Oh. Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
> > of the the children of Jewish partisans.
>
> Hardly, Mr. Belling. The killing of non-combatants in occupied
> territorries, by the occupying power, in retaliation for partisan
> activities is strictly forbidden by the Hague Convention (IV), Article 50
> specifically.

The killing of defenseless civilians anywhere can be said to be the same.
Why don’t you just admit it, and show us a human face for once?
>
> Nazi Germany was a signatory to the Hague Conventions (IV). Nazi Germay
> also murdered several million non-combatants in Nazi occupied territories
> during WWII.

The allies murdered several million Germans and their allies in allied occupied
territory at the end of the war.
>
> In contrast, both the Axis and the Allies considered each others’ means of
> production, which included the civilian populace (i.e the workers), to be
> legitimate military targets. Both the Axis and the Allies bombed these
> legitimate military targets. The Allies did not exterminate non-combatant
> ethnic groups in Allied occupied territories.

Not true, Mark, and you know it.

The Nazis _did_ exterminate
> non-combatant ethnic groups in Nazi occupied territories.

No more than the allies.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 12:30:41 PST 1996
Article: 83698 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:54:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

> Obviously, Mr. Belling is still too frightened to go to a public library
> and look in the Congressional Record. Why is that?
>
> Must I do _all_ his research for him? Sheesh….
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
Mark-the onus is on you. If you come up with that document-an actual
forensic, toxicological test that proves that cyanide was used to gas a victim
to death-you will become a great researcher…go for it….make your day…..

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 16:05:16 PST 1996
Article: 83704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:40:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-249.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> >
> > .
> > >
> > > Sorry, Jesus was Jewish.
> > >
> > > Live with it.
> > >
> > > Sara
> > >
> > > —
> > > “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> > > Christian religion.”
> > > George Washington, 1796
> > >
> > >>>>
> > I hate to admit it, but Sarah is right. Jesus was Jewish.
>
> Who is Sarah?
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> Christian religion.”
> George Washington, 1796
>
>>>>
You should ask?

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 16:05:17 PST 1996
Article: 83712 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Man Winter
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:46:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-249.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
[email protected] writes:

Here is the treatment a respected and elderly
German Industrialist received from his beneficent
American captors:

[…]

Source: The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.

This story may or may not be true. What are *your* criteria
for supposing it to be true? You seem to have read it in a
book. Fine, but you dismiss out of hand any number of
Holocaust testimonies which have appeared in hundreds, nay
> thousands of books.

I don’t dismiss them all, contrary to what some may think.

What makes C. Belfrage, who I notice
> doesn’t even name this “respected and elderly German
> Industrialist”, worthy of your belief or mine?

Please read below and see if the information satisfies any
of your criteria.
>
> Did you believe the Auschwitz death march testimony I
> posted yesterday? If not, why not?
>
>>>>
C. Belfrage was one of many allied soldiers who
occupied Germany and implemented the policies
of the conquerors. He was later expelled from the
United States as a Communist sympathizer during
the McCarthy era. His book, which I have quoted
from, details his experiences. He was, needless to
say, an ardent and committed anti-nazi.

As to your Auschwitz death march story, I have not
seen it, but intend to look for it after I post this-then
I will get back to you.

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 16:05:18 PST 1996
Article: 83722 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Some bodies fell out’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:51:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:

>
> A third claim was made: that no gassing took place in Natzweiler, when
> Kramer was there, despite his own testimony. Thus, Kramer was reliable
> about Bergen-Belsen but not for Natzweiler.
>
> Mr Blackmore wasn’t “ready” to discuss it neither. It’s a shame since
> this gassing is easy to prove.
>
>
>>>>
Then why haven’t you done so?rb

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 16:05:19 PST 1996
Article: 83730 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:27:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

Mark wirtes:

Probably because, Mr. Belling, the topic of alt.revision is about
Holocaust denial.

Oh? And “Holocaust” can only refer to Jews? Is that what you
are telling us?

Actually, that is what _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College
Edition) tells us:

“2 great or total destruction of life, esp. by fire [nuclear _holocaust_]
-*the Holocaust [also the h-] the systematic destruction of over six
million European Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II.”

Personally, I’m a bit more inclusive, considering the Holocaust [note the
capital “H”] to include the murder of about 6 million gentiles- by the
Nazis -as well.

As if you ever gave a damn about the Gentiles……or is it Goyim?
What does Goyim mean, Mark?

However, I’m afraid, Mr. Belling, that my _or_ Webster’s
definition of the Holocaust does _not_ include the German civilian
casualties incurred from the Allied strategic bombing campaign.

Good for your Webster, My definition is different.

So please be so kind as to wave your smelly red herring elsewhere.

Not a chance.

If I were to go into a detailed and lenghty discussion
in regard civilain casualties incurred during World War II a more
appopriate forum would be, for example, “soc.history.war.world-war-ii.”

Of course, I believe that “soc.history.war.world-war-ii” is a moderated
group, so your Nazi apologia, puerile lies, anti-Semitism, and juvenile
vuloarities would keep you from participating. Pity.

On the contrary. I have no doubt that many of my comments would be
> > most welcome.
>
> Then please go right ahead and post them there. Amuse me.

How could I amuse a clown?
>
> > BTW, what do you regard as “anti-Semitic” on my part?
> > Would you mind posting it?
> > >
> > > The moderators there tend to frown on such puerile and hateful nonsense.
> >
> > Is that why they never post here?
>
> Why don’t _you_ ask _them_?
>
> > > As it stands, I sometimes briefly address such off-topic issues when
> > > presented in this group when they are used for purposes of Nazi apologia
> > > and Holocast denial or anti-Semitic propaganda. Typically, this means
> > > pointing out attempts by deniers to establish moral relativism between
> > > Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the war for the purpose of
> > > white-wshing Nazi atrocities and mass murder.
> >
> > There certainly is a moral relativism, whether you like to admit it or not.
>
> Then please feel free to demonstrate such. And please try not to appeal to
> your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of “Because I Say So” by no
> means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor.

I have never used that expression.
>
> > However, your refusal to admit simply shows your own prejudice. it does not
> > go unnoticed.
>
> Really? Mr. Belling, simply because I do not share your Nazi fantasy about
> the bombing of Dresden by no means implies I choose not to out of
> prejudice. Nor does it mean that your Nazi fantasy about the bombing of
> Dresden is morally equivalent to the Nazi mass murder of the European
> Jews.

And who should believe you?
>
> Again, please feel free to demonstrate otherwise. Amuse me. And please try
> not to appeal to your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of “Because
> I Say So” by no means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor.

If you wish to amuse yourself, re-read your posts.
>

From [email protected] Wed Dec 4 18:38:41 PST 1996
Article: 83740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:01:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > Just like you, who keeps repeating the same nonsense over
> > and over, even though you are proven wrong on practically
> > every occasion. BTW, are you definitively saying that Rabbi
> > Reichorn never existed?
>
> No. Only a reasonable suspicion arises when he reported to hold a
> position which did not exist, specifically “Chief Rabbi of France” in 1859. There
> could be various reasons for this misattribution. To date, however, there has
> been no explanation whatsoever.
>
> –YFE
>
>>>>
Then let me ask you this? Was there ever a “Chief Rabbi of Italy?”

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:43 PST 1996
Article: 83747 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!tezcat!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:05:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
[snip]

I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
analysis years ago.

Well, here’s your chance. We can subject the tape to
the analysis that no historian thought was necessary.

It wasn’t historians who subjected the tape to analysis. It
was your impartial court and its team of investigators at Nuremberg.
I, for one, find it amazing that your colleagues spent all sorts of money
on estabishling whether the Emil Lachout documents were authentic, yet
never once thought of examining the Himmler tape, which is much more
important….Hmmmm….says something about standards, wouldn’t you think?
>
> Isn’t this the kind of forensic analysis you deniers
> are always screaming for?
>
> Coward.

Name caller. In any event, the comments, even if true, only prove
that people were shot on the eastern front during the course of the
partisan warfare campaign and this is nothing new…It certainly does
not point to an allegation where Jews were being murdered en masse
by lethal gas.
>
>
> >….However, what will this prove? A clever interpolator,
> >using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
> >the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
> >guilty party would confess to the deed….
>
> And what understanding do you have of recording technology,
> mr. Blackmore? If you are concernd that a clever forger
> would elude the analytical skill of the experts, why don’t
> you contact some experts and ask them about it?

The experts were the ones who may have forged the recording to
begin with, The time for investigation should have been when the
tape was offered into evidence-not 50 years later.
>
> It amazes me how quickly you concoct excuses to prevent
> solving this question once and for all.

I am not preventing you or anyone else from conducting an inquiry.
>
> >one can only do here, it seems, is use logic to evaluate what we have been
> >provided with and the circumstances surrounding the whole event. This
> >I have done.
>
> Logic my ass.

Gets to you, doesn’t it?
>
> You baselessly speculated that the Posen speech was a
> forgery,

And you baselessly assert that these few remarks constitute
evidenct that a conspriacy was underfoot to murder every single
Jew in Europe. Can’t you see how foolish your argument sounds?

expounding the oft repeated lie that it is
> not Himmler speaking on the tape.

I am not the only person to suggest this. People who worked with
Himmler for years said the same thing. Others who were present at
the speech had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

When offered the
> opportunity to substantiate your speculations with a
> scientific examination of the tape, you started
> bellyaching about how no expert could detect the kind
> of forgeries that you predicted.

It would be difficult, depending on the quality of the recording and
so on, and what method may have been used to interpolate. However,
I am not preventing anyone from conducting this research if they wish.
You might want to ask the Holocaust Museum in Washington. They
would have the funding.
>
> You have, in fact, altered your original argument.
> First you argued that it isn’t Himmler speaking on
> the tape. Now you seem to be saying that it _is_
> Himmler, but that some clever cut-and-paste artist
> has doctored the tape.

I have always repeated the same argument to everyone. Look up
past posts on Deja News. My mail correspondence is packed with
the same references.
>
> Make up your mind.
>
> >.I personally know of a case where
> >a Jewish American, working with staff to compile evidence for the Holocaust,
> >deliberately doctored film clips received from the Soviet Union after the war
> >in order to incriminate the Germans. The man will not admit to the deed
> > publicly, however, for obvious reasons.
>
> I know of a certain rblackmore who beats small animals
> and children for fun.

Well, you can attempt to poke fun all you like, but what I wrote is a fact. I know
it is an unpleasant fact for you, but that is not my problem.
>
> Now that we’ve dispensed with this evening’s unsupported
> allegations, why don’t you go ahead and take the challenge?

I thought I had. It is up to you to take up the challenge. You
sre relying on the tape as evidence. Prove it. If you are not
relying on the tape, then say so.
>

>
>>>>

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:45 PST 1996
Article: 83753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:06:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> [email protected] (Nizkor’s handler) wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van
> >Alstine) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
> >>Stele) wrote:
> >>
> >>Considering that Hitler’s “Euthanasia” program killed the mentally
> >>disabled without their (or their relatives’) consent, clearly evidences
> >>the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
> >>the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.
> >
> > When the person is a ward of the state, as was the case in these
> >cases, relatives have no say in the legal treatment.
>
> >>Hitler’s “Euthanasia” program was state sponsored murder.
>
> > You folks are rather too foolish to deal with the law. Murder is
> >defined in law. Euthansia in accordance with law is not murder.
> >Abortion in accordance with law is not murder.
>
> Was the euthanasia a legal treatment ? Then, why did they hide the
> real cause of the death to the relatives, trying to keep the secret ?
>
> The Hitler’s text wasn’t a law. How could Clemens August and many
> others lodge complaints for murder if a real law existed ?
>
>
>>>>
It was law. The law was later rescinded.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:45 PST 1996
Article: 83761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:15:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article , [email protected] (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

[email protected] writes:
Ask your friends at the synagogue. Why ask me? BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?

OK. Poland annexed Tschen at the same time which was also part
of Czechoslovakia, and other European countries grabbed slices of
the severed state as well. So the British and French would have been
obligated to attack them as well. Also, the Soviet Union invaded Poland
from the east, and your “honorable” friends were obligated to declare war
on them as well. Instead, your buddies Roosevelt and Churchill simply handed
Poland over to Stalin on a silver platter at the end of the war. And you say
that the war began over Poland’s right to sovernignity? Thats a good one,
Mark.
>
> Er, wrong person, Mr. Belling. Ain’t it a pain when your sloppiness in
> keeping the attributions straight bites you in the ass?

I haven’t the faintest idea what you are mumbling about…What I wrote
is correct-thats why you never responded with info to the contrary. Caught
with your hand in the cookie jar again.
>
> [snip]
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:46 PST 1996
Article: 83764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:18:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-015.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
> (william c anderson)2 Dec 1996 16:13:00 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>Mr. Blackmore’s predictable response to the “Put up or shut up”
> :>challenge:
> :>
> :>: I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
> :>: analysis years ago…..However, what will this prove? A clever interpolator,
> :>: using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
> :>: the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
> :>: guilty party would confess to the deed….
> :>
> :>Uh-huh. Do I hear the familiar sound of a denier backpedaling?
>
> You hear the familiar sound of a coward slithering away.
>
> [deleted]
>
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
I didn’t know you could make such sounds, Gord.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:47 PST 1996
Article: 83772 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:17:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

.
>
> Sorry, Jesus was Jewish.
>
> Live with it.
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> Christian religion.”
> George Washington, 1796
>
>>>>
I hate to admit it, but Sarah is right. Jesus was Jewish.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:48 PST 1996
Article: 83773 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:37:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> Chuck Ferree writes:
> Chuck Ferree writes:
>
> stele really gets profound with his arguments! The lil natsiewannabe
> is so stupid and ignorant (not the same thing) IMHO that he just
> buzzes around looking for spots to lay his eggs (maggots)
>
>
> Kurt Stele wrote:
> >
> > On 22 Nov 1996 18:05:44 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > >Danny, you are such a silly little man.
> >
> > Danny hates it when his cheesey posts are debunked. Everytime he
> > posts them en masse he secretly hopes revisionists happen to be “busy”
> > and off the internet that day.
>
> Debunked? Did you mean to say debunked? You call your post a debunk?
> Sad lil shit. No brainer. High school dropout. Stole his computer by
> ripping off old farts like me.
>
> With the guts to say someone like Danny is a silly little man!
> ROTFLMAO
>
> Chuck
> >
> > Kurt Stele
> >
> > “[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of “Holocaust survivors”] are THE BEST, MOST CREDIBLE
EVIDENCE AVAILABLE. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY BEATS THE HELL OUT OF OVER-DOSED
TURKEYS
>
>>>>
Refer to some of these testimonies in my examination of witnesses
for the prosecution at the Belsen trial. What a sorry little pack
of liars they turned out to be.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:49 PST 1996
Article: 83774 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Look! Just a little Research, Blackmore.
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:51:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 192
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
Blackmore could do research on the material Blackmore reads in
Blackmore’s latest book, _The Good Old Days_. It has become obvious
that Blackmore prefers to distort rather than present the documents as
they are. Anyway on page 130 of Leni Yahil’s _The Holocaust_, Oxford,
1990 we find this about Johannes Blaskowitz, whose notes are the first
thing in Part one of _The Good Old Days_.

OK, here we go again:

“. . .the commander of the army in the East, Marshal Johannes von
Blaskowitz, wrote a memorandum enumerating thirty-three cases

Thirty three cases…..that is not many considering what was happening at
the time. Be thankful it wasn’t more.

shooting, robbery, vandelism, and the like, expressing his fear that
such incidents would affect the discipline of te soldiers who had
witnessed them

Compare this to the shooting, robbery and rape conducted by the
Soviet army a few years later. Why don’t you look for written protests
to Stalin?

He also noted that discussions with the Security
Police (Sicherheitspolizei, or Sipo) also noted that discussions with
the local Gestapo had been fruitless, since the latter was acting on
instructions from the national command of the SS. He therefore asked
that the rule of law be restored.

Well, I doubt whether this officer could have been acting from the
“national command of the SS”, as the SS were nominally under the
jurisdiction of the Wehrmacht. However, the police units apparently
operated independently, especially when investigating serious crimes
committed against German nationals.

On November 18, 1939, Hitler’s adjutant reported the führer’s
reaction that a war cannot be conducted by the methods of the
Salvation Army. Blaskowitz’s continuing complaints were of no avail.
The events of September, when an estimated 4,000 to 5,000 Germans were
killed by Poles, were cited as justification for the German terror.
Apparently on Hitler’s instructions, the number of German casualties
was exaggerated tenfold in the Reich’s official propaganda, which
spoke of 58,000 Germans missing or known to have been murdered.

You will need to prove that these reports were exaggerated, or at least
provide us with a few reasons as to why and how you think they were
exaggerated and by how much.

Moreoever, Hitler issued a special amnesty on October 4, 1939, whose
opening paragraph stated, ‘Actions carried out in the occupied Polish
territories from September 1 until now, to express resentment of
atrocities committed by the Poles, are not to be investigated as
criminal acts.” This amnesty was declared “to commemorate the victory
concluding the battle imposed on us by Poland.”

Well, amnesties are often granted for such things.

Her sources for this material is Martin Brozat, _Nationalsozialistiche
Polenpolitik, 1939-1945_, Stuttgart, 1965 and Reitlinger’s _The Final
Solution_.

In fact on page 33 of Reitlinger we find this:

“Whereas in June, 1941, the independence of the police units in the
rear areas of the army was defined with meticulous care after long
conferences, in September, 1939, there seems to have been only a hint
from the Fuehrer that the SS were privileged and that the animal
spirits of the men were not to be discouraged in Jewish relations.

Seems to have been only a hint is not good enough…..

On
September 14th, for instance, two SS men, a sergeant and a gunner,
were court-martialled fro the murder of fifty Jews. Having worked them
all day at bridge-building these two men drove the Jews towards
evening into a synagogue and shot them. The court reduced the murder
charges to manslaughter and pronounced sentences of nine years’ and
three years’ imprisonment. After some correspondence, the
Commander-in-Chief, Von Brauchitsch, failed to confirm even a
mitigation of these sentences, which he declared had been quashed
under the terms of the general amnesty. For the gunner Ernst the
Judge-Advocate had pleaded that ‘as an SS man he was particularly
sensitive to the sight of the Jews. He had therefore acted quite
thoughtlessly in a spirit of adventure. An excellent soldier, not
punished before.”

I would say that this qualifies as a war crime and should have been
punished severely. However, you cannot maintain that this was the
rule rather than the exception.
>
> From _The Von Hassel Diaries 1938-1944_, Hammish Hamilton, London,
> 1948 on page 77:
>
> “I hear that Blaskowitz, as commander of an army, wanted to prosecute
> two SS leaders — including the rowdy Sepp Dietrich — for looting and
> murder.

Sepp Dietrich was captured by the allies. He was placed on trial a number
of times, and even with their low standards of evidence, he obtained his
freedom and died a free man.

But in vain. Those who saw Warsaw, with its devastation and
> many thousands of dead bodies lying around, came away with horrible
> impressions. Of course the commander of the city should not have
> permitted this to happen, but the Nazi determination to bring the war
> to a quick end was primarily responsible.”

Well, this is the justification frequently given for the allied policy of
terror bombing and the dropping of atom bombs on Japan. The fact is,
the German commanders at least gave the civilian population of Warsaw
24 hours to vacate the city before they began their massive bombardment.
The destruction of the city was due to the Pole’s obstinacy.
>
> Page 95:
>
> “Gogo Nostitz, very depressed, told about absolutely shameless actions
> in Poland, particularly by the SS. . . . The shooting of hundreds of
> innocent Jews was the order of the day.

Then I would like to see this order.

Furthermore, an increasingly
> insolent attitude was adopted by the SS toward the Army, which they
> did not solute but jeered at and undermined.

They were under the command of the army.

> Blaskowitz had written a memorandum describing all this quite
> frankly. It also contained a sentence to the effect that, judging from
> the conduct of the SS in Poland, it was to be feared they might later
> turn upon their own people in the same way. Blaskowitz, as a matter of
> fact, had executive powers only in the case of ‘revolt’ Otherwise he
> had nothing to say outside the military sphere. Frank was carrying on
> like a megalomaniacal pasha.

Frank had no authority to issue orders to either the army or the SS.
I think there is confusion here between the Waffen SS and the Police
Units, which were not part of the SS but often wore similar uniforms and
insignia.

Neurath could learn a lesson from him in
> that respect, since he (Frank) let nobody interfere, but rules like a
> sovereign, whereas Neurath gave magnificant hunting parties but in
> reality served only as an ‘extra.’ Perhaps we may hope that the
> behaviour of the SS will be the quickest way to enlighten the Army.”
>
> Back to Reitlinger page 44:
>
> “The Reich Jews were not easily assimilated to the conditions of the
> impoverished Jewish communities of Eastern Poland, nor did the local
> Jews welcome them. The lack of proper food, clothing, shelter, or
> sanitation produced a typhus epidemic. In December, 1939, the
> Commander-in-Chief, East, Field-Marshal Blaskowitz, reported that
> children arrived in the deportation trains from the incorporated
> territory frozen to death, and that people were dying of hunger in the
> reception villages. The Swiss Press got hold of the report sent to
> Himmler by a high SS officer, according to which the death-rate among
> the Jewish deportees to the Lublin province was thirty per cent.
> Nevertheless, after an extremely cold spell of weather, orders were
> given for the resumption of deportations at a full-dress conference of
> the Reich Main Security Office, summoned by Heydrich on the January
> 30th and attended by Eichmann.”

Well, this is not really relevant to what is detailed in the good old days.
I appreciate your efforts to reply, but I would have to examine all of these
references you give. Otherwise, I ask you to simpy refer to the text of the
Good Old Days, lwhich I relied upon, and THEN show me how you think
I exaggerated. Fair enough?
>
> What happened to Blaskowitz you might ask? Well, let’s go back to
> Yahil and page 152:
>
> “The anarchy in the Generalgouvernement was heightened by the
> competition among the various authorities, above all, as mentioned
> before, between the governor, Hans Frank, and Himmler’s
> representative, HSSPF Friedrich-Wilhelm Krüger. Initially, Frank was
> at loggerheads with the military authorities in the
> Generalgouvernement, but after the cammanding Marshal von Blaskowitz
> was replaced — at Frank’s insistence — by a man more amenable to
> National Socialist methods, the army was blocked from interfering with
> the civil administration and confined itself to matters directly
> related to its jurisdiction.”

Do you happen to knopw who replaced Blaskowitz and when?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:50 PST 1996
Article: 83778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:12:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-015.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article ,
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.

Isn’t it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
nonsense? He’s been beautifully trained, hasn’t he?

Bet he can sit up and beg, too.

Is that what your husband has to do?=rb

Sara

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:51 PST 1996
Article: 83794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:45:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 30 Nov 1996 03:28:19 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
> >> thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
>
> >> One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
> >> attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
> >> has never had a thought that his mouth couldn’t use?
>
> >> It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
> >> longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
> >> are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
> >> German.
>
> >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
> >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
> >posts? You’re sick, Ken, you need help.
>
> One liners are all your feeble brain can come up with, Mr.
> Bellinger.
>
> As fas as obsessive-compulsive nuerotic, Mr. Bellinger, I am
> afraid you have earned that distinction for yourself.
>
> You will soon be replacing Giwer on the Netkooks page.
>
>
>
>
>>>>
I could never compete with the denizens of Holokookery.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:53 PST 1996
Article: 83796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:39:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> The following photos are in
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>
> They are all scanned from “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips,
> William Hodge and Company, 1949.
>
> belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
> belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
> belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
> belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
> belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>
> The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
> that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>
> Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz
> and Belsen).
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
>
> Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
> corpses in Belsen.
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
>
> Kramer.jpg: Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
> II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>>>>
Yes. What of it?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:54 PST 1996
Article: 83798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:19:19 GMT
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> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article ,
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
> > foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
> > overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
> > Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.
>
> Poor potty training?
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>
> Mark
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
>
>>>>
>From a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:54 PST 1996
Article: 83801 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:36:07 GMT
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[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely.
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
can be used for forced labor.

Again, noone should assign any credibility to this statement unless
and until we see the original german, translated by a German expert in
German. Otherwise, it’s just compost.

Those diaries were preserved on plates. They have been seen (I have seen some
of them). Louis Lochner, who translated them, is a German expert. Next?

Thinking Man.

Any time soon?

—
Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
“We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people.”

(Rabbi Reichorn, in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:55 PST 1996
Article: 83811 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 21:29:54 GMT
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany, Mr. Belling?

Why are you asking me another question?

Because I would like an answer?

You asked a question and I answered it, and now you wish to deviate on to
another subject?

Another subject? Given that you claim that you wrote that “the Nazis claimed it
was the Jews who were responsible for the war,” I think my asking you how
were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany is perfectly
apropos.

No. Your question is inappropriately phrased.
I claimed that the Nazis accused the Jews
of being responsible for the war and then you ask
me how the Jews were responsible,
as if I am a Nazi and can give you the answer.
If you want to know why the Nazis
thought the Jews were responsible, ask, but
don’t be sneaky about it.

Care to answer the question, Mr. Belling? How were the Jews responsible
for a war started by Nazi Germany?

Ask your friends at the synagogue. Why ask me? BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?

Which nation, without first formally declaring war, invaded another
sovereign nation Mr. Belling?

Russia? When it invaded Finland? Poland, when it annexed Tschen?
Russia? When it invaded Poland?
As with the First world war, it didn’t quite “happen” as you imply,
as you well ought to know.

I’m asking _you_, Mr. Belling because _you_ made the (inane) claim that
“the Nazis claimed it was the Jews who were responsible for the war.”
Capisce?

Yes. Apparently not only the Nazis claimed it, but so did Prime Minister
Cahamberlain, according to an excerpt in the Forrestal diaries.

Complete citation please. Author, title, page.

You will have to look it up. I don’t happen to have the book right
on hand. Look it up in the index under Chamberlain. Simple enough?

Perhaps certain people prominent in the jewish community declared that the
Jews were at war with the Nazis as well.

And who were these “certain people prominent in the [J]ewish community,”
exactly, Mr. Belling?

Research it. You are aware of the quotes.

1,5 million Jews fighting in the various allied armies against Nazi Germany
wouldn’t serve as a form of confirmation for you, would it, Mark?

And what “various allied armies,” specifically, were these “1,5 million
Jews” members of, Mr. Belling? At what time(s) were they members? Please
be sure to include full source citations to support your claims, please.
Remember: Author, title, page.

No problem: The Soviet Union, America, Great Britain, New Zealand,
Yugoslavia, Poland, France, and Jewsih partisans were fighting throuhout all
the European theatres of the war. Isaac Kowalski, a Jewish partisan who
helped to form an underground press in occupied Poland, also quotes
the figure in his book “A Secret Press in Nazi Occupied Europe”.
Are you calling him a liar? You also might want to access your local
library or a library for Judaic studies. A number of volumes exist which
will corroborate the figure for you. Your feeble attempt to bust my chops
isn’t looking so well for you.

Mr. Belling, that you try again and again to squirm away from answering
this simple question is simply indicative of that your claim is
indefensible -and that you know it.

[snip]

I have NEVER-defended the proven murder of any defenseless human
beings-and you know it.

I know no such thing, Mr. Belling. You have defended Kramer, who was
convicted of crimes against humanity. You have defended Goe”ring, who was
convicted of crimes against humanity. You have defended Streicher, who was
convicted of crimes against humanity. These crimanls, Mr. Belling, took
part in the _proven_ murder of quite a few defenseless human beings, Mr.
Belling, and were convicted and executed for it. And you have defended
them.

And I will continue to defend them because their sentence was
a travesty of justice. I also have shown by examining the so-called
“evidence” offered against them, that they were innocent of the charges
preferred against them. However, I never have nor never will defend
a person I believe is guilty of premeditated murder of innocent human
beings and have written this quite often on AR as well as in private
e-mail correspondence. I am not on the defensive here.
>
[snip]

There is certain evidence I do not contest, when I feel it has met the
burden of proof and reason.

Such as?

Erich Koch, Grabner, Goeth, and many others.

i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
by Dr. Larson on “gassed” inmates at dachau….what? You misplaced
them?….Tsk, tsk.

I won’t weep, I assure you.

That remains to be seen, Mr. Belling.

However, be clear that I expect to see a complete
result of toxicological tests establishing the presence of gas poisoning of
victims at Dachau.

In all fairness, I will endeavor to give you a complete citation (i.e.
page number in the Record) for this as soon as I can.

All right. Fair enough, but I must point out to you that this must be the
actual report and autopsy itself-not some paraphrased edition or something
“testified to” without placing the reports into evidence. Agreed?

You know that this information is not contained in this record, or is
merely a paraphrasing.

Actually, no, I do not know that, Mr. Belling. Do you? Have _you_ examined
the Congressional Record and determined this?

No.

If this info was actually available it would have been
published by historians long ago.

The Congressional Record _is_ published and widely available Mr. Belling.
Have you tried looking for it in a public or university library?

No.

It is for this reason that I believe you simply
cannot meet the burden of proof which you placed upon your own shoulders.

Again, Mr. Belling, I will endeavor to provide you with a full citation.
This should resolve the issue. This, I would point out, is more than _you_
typically provide in your “citations.”

Sometimes, but I always state when I need to speculate and simply
use logic or reason.

And it was this burden which compelled you to remark that one day soon I would
eat crow pie.

Indeed.

C’mon, Mr. Belling! A little _research_ won’t hurt you. Much.

Nor will it hurt you. Provide these reports and the media will taut you
as a great researcher. You will achieve fame.

I take it then, you acknowledge _your_ inadequacy in accomplishing this?
That you are incapable of finding the Congressional Record and perusing it
to find the information in question?

You provided the source, Mark. I can understand if you have difficulty
producing it off the top of your head, as I cannot always comply immediately
with a source either-but you have had more than enough time now to produce
the reports.

Sure seems like it, Mr. Belling….

BTW, you claimed “at least twice over the past 5 years.” I see only _one_
cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling….

I believe it was twice.

My memory could have failed me.

How “conveinant.” But I’m afraid, Mr. Belling, that dog won’t hunt now.
You made the claim that of “at least twice over the past 5 years.” I am
holding you to that claim, Mr. Belling. Please provide at _least_ two
(credible) citations made within the last five years that the death toll
for Dresden was 135,000 people killed.

Television broadcast on National News. I don’t know how I can
prove to you a quote on a News bureau years ago.

> Or you can retract your unsupported claim, Mr. Belling….

For the reasons above it is unsupported, but it does not lessen the
fact that I heard it, as did millions of other people.

For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
135,000, perhaps higher.
Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you?

No. I will get around to it.

Then _which_ “National News Service,” Mr. Belling?

You might try AP Wire Service.

BTW, you claimed “at least twice over the past 5 years.” I see only _one_
cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling….

I would also note, Mr. Belling, your anti-Semitic innuendo….

No, Mark, I am not anti-Semitic, much as you might wish it.
Why, I’d even welcome you in my home for dinner and discussion.

I don’t dine with Nazi apologists, Mr. Belling. Or proven liars. Or
anti-Semites.

Of course I knew you would say that…

Amazing. Stupifying even. First Mr. Belling “thanks” me for citing the
bombing of Hamburg (which incurred more casualties than the 35,000 at
Dresden) and then he says in the next breath that I “never mentioned any
German air raids.”

I am referring to air raids BY Germans.

Mark-the casualties sustained at Dresden was approxinately 135,000-maybe
more.

That is your unsupported claim, Mr. Belling. I have asked you many times
to support this claim with full citation to the sources you used. To date
you have refused. One can only surmise you are being evasive, Mr. Belling.
Perhaps this is because you are citing a source who, in turn, is citing
Nazi wartime propaganda claims? Hmmm?

I will cite you a proper source as soon as I find the one I am thinking of.

Excellent, Mr. Belling. How long will this take you? If your past
performance is any indication Hell will be frozen by the time you “get
back” to us….

Less time than it has taken you to provide the Dachau
Forensic Reports, I can assure you.

I do hope you are a bit more responsive this time.

Also, all the German air raids conducted in the course of the war against the
enemy wound not amount to the number of dead sustained at Dresden. Shame on
you.

So? This was not because of Germany’s lack of _trying_, Mr. Belling! It is
because the Luftwaffe was _forced_ onto the defensive by the Allied air
forces. That and terribly poor planning on Go”ring’s part in _not_
authorizing the design and production of multi-engine heavy bombers, like
the B-17, B-24, and Lancaster, prior to the war.

Sorry, that explanation doesn’t cut it. Deal with facts.

[snip]

I will not do your research for you.

Asking _you_ to cite the source for _your_ claims is a prerequisite to
taking your claims seriously, Mr. Belling. Given that you have now
(belatedly) supplied a partial (at best) reference, I can only now take
your claim semi-seriously. It would behoove you to clarify and completely
cite your references for your claim that the death toll from the Dresden
raids was 135,000.

I have given you the date. The mention was made somewhere between 1985 and
1993.

Full citation please, Mr. Belling. Author, title, page.

I will quote other sources when convenient. I promise.

I’m afraid that’s not good enough, Mr. Belling. You demand that I provide
Dr. Larsen’s reports at _your_ convience, yet you will support _your_
unsupported claims at _your_ convience (i.e. never)?

I’m afraid that is simply not acceptable, Mr. Belling.

If I am to provide _you_ a full citation for Dr. Larsen’s report, you can
hardly deny _me_ the quid quo pro of providing the _full_ citations for
_your_ claims!

That, is, of course, unless you are a shameless hypocrite?

You have yet to provide the reports.

That you kick and scream at every step in doing so, Mr. Belling, can only
leave one to think that you are trying to hide something. Like maybe your
“sources” are as bogus as you are?

No, they are not bogus. I simply don’t have all the info at my fingertips
nor a large organization to conduct the same for me. If I did, you would
really be “illin”…….

Then I suggest you do the honorable thing and retract your unsupported
claims, Mr. Belling. Obviously, your big mouth has written a check your
body can’t cash….

Look who’s talking-where are the forensic reports from Dachau?

Look up the original reports of the authorities in Dresden who had to
dispose of the bodies.

And which reports, specifically, were these, Mr. Belling?

I believe it was the German Red Cross.

Full citation please, Author, title, page.

You need to research it Mark.

German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling.

Oh. Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
of the the children of Jewish partisans.

Hardly, Mr. Belling. The killing of non-combatants in occupied
territorries, by the occupying power, in retaliation for partisan
activities is strictly forbidden by the Hague Convention (IV), Article 50
specifically.

The killing of defenseless civilians anywhere can be said to be the same.

Would you care to name the specific internatinal treaty that prohibits the
aerial bombardment of military targets (means of production of production
inclusive)?

Are you really this pathetic, Mark? And you call me an apologist for
murderers! By your own logic you justify the raids on Guernica.

Why don’t you just admit it, and show us a human face for once?

Why don’t _you_ stop with your Nazi apologia and simply admit the Nazis
were a bunch of genocidal murderers who slaughtered 12 million defenseless
noncombatants?

I don’t believe the charges or the figures. It has all been grossly exaggerated.

Gotta bone stickung in your throat or what, Mr. Belling?

Not at all.

Nazi Germany was a signatory to the Hague Conventions (IV). Nazi Germay
also murdered several million non-combatants in Nazi occupied territories
during WWII.

The allies murdered several million Germans and their allies in allied
occupied territory at the end of the war.

Full citation please. Author, title, page.

Already given many times over. If the day ever comes when
I can devote more time to posting on AR, I fear for your mental
health, Mark.

In contrast, both the Axis and the Allies considered each others’ means of
production, which included the civilian populace (i.e the workers), to be
legitimate military targets. Both the Axis and the Allies bombed these
legitimate military targets. The Allies did not exterminate non-combatant
ethnic groups in Allied occupied territories.

Not true, Mark, and you know it.

Sorry, Mr. Bellinger, Because You Say So is unnacceptable. If you wish to
assert the contra, then please offer a credible rebuttal.

The Nazis _did_ exterminate
non-combatant ethnic groups in Nazi occupied territories.

No more than the allies.

Please support you claim, Mr. Bellinger. Which ethnic groups did the
Allies externimate in Allied occupied territories? Please be sure to
provide full citations in support of your claim.

You can research my posts for the answers. Now-here’s
something to start with concerning Dresden. Let’s see if
you come up with your forensic reports from Dachau just
as quickly:

Der Tod von Dresden, by Axel Rodenberger, published
by instalments in the weekly paper, “Das gruene Blatt”,
February 25, 1951.

Also, from “Advance to barbarism, F.J.P. Veale, Devin-Adair Co. 1968:

“So enormous were the numbers of bodies that nothing
could be done but to pile them on timber collected from the
ruins and there to burn them. In the Altmarkt one funeral
pyre after another disposed of five hundred bodies or parts
of bodies at one time. This gruesome work went on for weeks.
Estimates as to the number of casualties vary between very wide
limits. Some put the figure as high as a quarter of a million, and
this figure was put forward at the Manstein Trial in 1949….The
Swiss Paper, Flugwehr und Technik, writes: “In the three great
attacks on Dresden the number of dead from reliable sources is
reported at 100,000. Air Marshal Sir Robert Saundby in his preface
to David Irving’s ….book accepts the estimate of 135,000. pp.191-192.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:56 PST 1996
Article: 83812 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:47:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
Stele) wrote:
On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:34:58 -0700, [email protected] (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

“Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be…the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe.”

– Adolf Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag; January 30, 1939.

Why did never issue any order to kill Jews if that was Hitler’s
intent? Oops!

Oops indeed, Mr. Smith. Your fascile one-liners land you in hot water yet
again! To whit:

In regards objections to the mass shooting of German Jews outside Riga by
Dr. Bernhard Lo”sener, the Advisor on Jewish Affairs to the Interior
Ministry, to his superior, Secretary of State Dr. Stuckart:

“I told him that my colleague, Dr. Feldscher, had recieved an eyewitness
account of the way in which deported German Jews had recently been
massacred in Riga…I told Stickart that this outrage had affected me as
it would any feeling human being; and that in the present case I was also
affected as an advisor in the Ministry of the Interior, since Jews of
German citizenship were involved. My conscience and my position at the
Ministry were now irreconcilable. They would remain so even if the present
policy on mixed marriages and on the offspring fropm these unions were to
prove untenable. Stuckart’s reply to this was, word for word: ‘Herr
Lo”sener, don’t you realize that all of this is being done on orders from
the highest level?’ [*] I said, ‘There is a judge inside me who tells me
what I have to do.’ Stickart answered that if my conscience did not allow
me to continue, he would relieve me at once from my position; but first he
would need to consider how I might otherwise be employed.” (Fleming,
_Hitler and the Final Solution_ p.107.)

All hearsay. where is the order? Don’t refer to some mythical “Hitler
wishes” and it shalt be done nonsense.

* “‘On orders from the highest level’ can mean only that an order or
command came from Hitler himself” [Richard Schultze-Kossens to Fleming, 1
December 1979.]; Ibid. p.107fn.

Furthermore, according to Fleming:
>
>
>
> …Since we find that this expression of Hilter’s will, equivalent in
> force to a command, was closely connected with mass shootings that occured
> outside Riga in November and December of 1941, the following comments are
> worth quoting. Dr, Werner Best has said: “I can attest that, seen from
> ‘from below,’ that is, from the perspective of thoise who recieved the
> orders, the formulas ‘der Fu”hrer wu”nscht’ [the Fu”hrer’s wishes] and
> ‘der Fu”hrer hat befohlen’ [the Fu”hrer has ordered] were perfectly
> synonymous…At the recieving end as well…the word ‘wish’ was used as an
> equivalent to ‘order’.” And according to Richard Schulze-Kossens: “The
> verbal expression ‘der Fu”hrer wu”nscht,’ ‘es ist des Fu”hrers Wunsch ist’

The “Fuehrer’s Wish”, and if he wished all grass turned into dollar bills,
that would have happened as well…go peddle your fairy tales elsewhere.

> [which is the Fu”hrer’s wish]…are identical in menaing. Although these
> are not direct orders, they are nonetheless, to be interpreted as such. If
> , therefore, he were to tell me to signal the Leibstandarte [Hiltrer’s
> bodyguard] …’it is my wish that they do this and that immediately,’ then
> the commander of the Leibstandarte naturally would view this as an order.
> The ‘wish’ is always communicated by a theird party and is not explicitly
> passed on as a Fu”hrer-order. But it does indeed have the force of an
> order.”
>
>
>
> Fleming, _Hitler and the Final Solution_, pp.45-46.

Fleming-number one German hater and baiter, similar to Streicher and
the Jews. Streicher documented all his accusations against the jews
as well, if not better than Fleming.
>
>

“We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people.”

(Rabbi Reichorn, in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:57 PST 1996
Article: 83820 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:01:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> >> In <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer posting as
> >> [email protected] (Swiss bank billions) wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>>>>
> >Whether he was an actor or not, it is clear that he was a liar in
> >any event.
>
> Oh. So if he wasn’t an actor, well, hell; he’s a liar anyway. I like
> that!
>
> Geez.
>
>
>
>>>>
Go to the back of the class.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:58 PST 1996
Article: 83821 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:00:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> >> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
> >> >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
> >> >posts? You’re sick, Ken, you need help.
>
> >> What sort of compulsive-obsessive neurotic would actually write your
> >> posts?
>
> >What sort of person would respond to them?
>
> One simple revels in the unconscious irony of this response.
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Indeed.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:46:59 PST 1996
Article: 83825 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer’s Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:15:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 129
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

ron.schwarz[at]nethawk.com (Delete spam-buster ([at]) to reply) writes:
On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:33:21 -0500, [email protected] (Sara aka
Perrrfect) wrote:

In article , [email protected] (Jim
Stuart) wrote:

Thank you, comrade! The clear, firm gaze of Adolf Hitler is
an inspiration to all Aryan men, to strive toward victory and
to battle each enemy with courage and quiet determination.

And then to take the coward’s way out and commit suicide.

I would hardly refer to Hitler’s suicide as cowardice. Fact is, the man,
whatever else he may have been, was not a coward, as his whole career
and war record amply proves.

Indeed. To whit, a revealing anecdote regarding Mr. Belling’s hero, Hitler:

“Since 1910, when he was twenty-one, he [Hitler] had been subject to
military servive. According to Heiden the Austrian authorities could not
put their finger on him while he was in Vienna. They finally located him
in Munich and ordered him to to report for examination in Linz. Josef
Greiner, in his _Das Ende des Hitler-Mythos_, publishes some of the
corrospondance between Hitler and the Austrian military authorities in
which Hitler denies he went to Germany to avoid Austrian military service.

Curious the sources you rely on. Decades old and crusted with ancient
propagandistic lies by detractors. Of course, you can’t explain why Hitler
enlisted to fight in the German Armed Forces, and was highly decorated.

I took the liberty of snipped more of Shirer’s ancient mendacium and distortions.

The allies were simply deprived of the pleasure of executing him publicly and
later displaying his mummified head and sex organs in some museum in Tel Aviv.

So bitter! Tsk tsk. (It must be hard for Mr. Bellinger to see his heroes
so mocked and reviled for the criminal scum they were.) However, Mr.
Bellinger (conveiantly) overlooks the reality that _none_ of the convicted
and executed major Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg were so descicrated by
the Allies after they were executed. Besides, Hilter, wasn’t completely
hung anyways….

According to your Russians, he didn’t have 2 testicles…according to other
sources, he had three…..By the way, you are wrong about the desecration
of corpses. Read how the Soviets reacted to goering’s corpse after he was dead.
You ought to find it amusing. About as amusing as pulling teeth out of the mouths
of corpses…..
>
I suggest you widen your knowledge of your Fuehrer by reading some of the
documents and interviews collected by the OSS during the war. Some of the
wonderful things you’ll discover are:

What is OSS-the Office of Stupid Shits?

Bitter, bitter…. Tsk tsk.

Liars, liars, ….Tsk Tsk.

Hitler got undressed and then asked Rene Mueller (an actress) to kick him,
all the while crying that he “wasn’t worthy” of her. She later “committed
suicide.”

Too bad. She might have got a job with the Green Bay Packers.

Hitler forced Geli Raubel to stand over his naked body and urinate on him.

I hope she wasn’t a beer drinker…..
Of course you witnessed these scenes? You would have liked to?

She later “committed suicide” with Hitler’s gun.

Others imply she was murdered by either Hitler’s enemies or associates.

When one of Hitler’s personal guards started a flirtation with Eva Braun,
he was found at the bottom of a ravine behind the “Eagle’s Nest.” Cause of
death? “Suicide”

> > > >
> > > >What a guy, huh?

What a joke is more like it.

The big question: where was Fahmi Malek at the time?

The things some people will believe. Well try this one on for size:

“Once I had an unpleasant experience in the camp, when a (Jewish) doctor
> > visited me and my room-mates had to leave. When we were alone, he said,
> > “I have to ask you to tell me a few intimate things about Hitler.”
> >
> > I stared at him, astonished. “But you know that I can’t tell you anything
> > “intimate” about Hitler.”
> >
> > “Frau Riefenstahl, I understand that you do not care to speak about
> > such things, but I am a doctor, and you can trust me. (!) It is no crime
> > if you as a woman slept with Hitler. I will not report it any further. We
> > want to know if Hitler was sexually normal or if he was impotent, what
> > his genitals looked like, and so on. These things are important to us
> > for understanding his character.”
> >
> > Source: The Sieveof Time, Leni Riefenstahl
> >
> > Now. if all those reports which you mentioned were true, why
> > was this doctor begging Ms. Riefenstahl for all these sordid
> > details? Fact is, your info is simply a compendium of malicious
> > lies and gossip disseminated by Hitler’s detractors.
>
> Ah yes, Mr. Belling’ss rationalizations to salvage his supreme idol starts….

Right, Mark. You are lucky you don’t stutter.
>
>
>
> The things weak-minded people do out of idolatry and their suceptability
> to personality cults. Not to mention just being plain ol’ immoral Nazi
> scum….

More name calling from the people who claim to never call other people
names……You bit off more than you chould chew again Mark.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:00 PST 1996
Article: 83826 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:27:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected](Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
In [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
writes:

Criticising the Jews or failing to symphatizing with them are the
same
as being a nazi in your opinion.

Criticizing Jews as individuals is not the same as attacking “the
Jews” as a group, as you do. The latter _is_ bigotry. If you don’t want
to be a bigot, then learn to judge people as individuals.

Did the Palestinians become “nazis” after
the zionists had grabbed their country?

Are you referring to the 1967 war when the Arab nations attacked
Israel and lost? A nation, such as Israel, has every right to defend
itself, and to take steps, as did Israel, to prevent such an attack in
the future.

For the same reason you don’t laugh at a funeral. Many of their
relatives are still alive and still mourning over the loved ones they
lost in the camps.

I could not care what the Jews are doing over their past.

I think you do care or you wouldn’t post this crap.

I do not
expect the Jews to pay any particular respect for my dead relatives
that died more than fifty years ago, even if they were murdered by
somebody.

If they showed the same disrespect to you that you show to them, you’d
be pissed as hell.

Why do the Jews keep bothering the world with their holocaust story
after
all these years?

Because they don’t want it repeated.

Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman
being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the
right
to kill it?

> I do not regard a fetus as human. There is no comparison whatever
> between what a woman decides to do with her own body and its contents
> and what went on at Auschwitz or any other concentration camp, Nazi or
> Communist.
>
> > And please do not call be a nazi just because I refuse to believe in
> >the holocaust.
>
> I call you a Nazi because of your hateful in-your-face attitude toward
> Jewish people. You certainly do have the right to express your beliefs
> or disbeliefs or, in this case, your obvious hatred for “the Jews”,
> just as a Communist has the right to burn the American flag. But, like
> the flag-burning Communist, you can damn well expect other people to be
> pissed as hell at you.
>
> >–
> >Ole Kreiberg http://login.dknet.dk/~olk
>
> —
> [email protected]
> “The concept of ‘greatness’ entails being noble,
> wanting to be by oneself,
> being capable of being different, standing alone…” -Friedrich Nietzsche
> “Identity is shaped through confict and opposition.” -Camille Paglia
>
>>>>
I was once in a bank and heard two Jewish people vehemently
arguing over who was going to have the privledge of using the
telephone next. Finally, one of the Jews screamed out-“You’re
nothing but a Nazi! A Nazi!” All the customers in the bank turned
and simply stared at these two elderly Jews, wearing yarmulkas.-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:01 PST 1996
Article: 83827 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pagans?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:44:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

Once again, Mr. Giwer shows his absolute lack of ANY intelligence.

DRUIDS worship trees, Stupid, not pagans.

But of course, you KNEW that, right?

Now. Having been caught in an absolutely moronic mis-statement, will you do
the honorable thing and say “I was wrong”?

I doubt it. You’ll throw the pyramid thing up again, even though I have
stated quite clearly that I was wrong, that I made a mistake, that I was in
> error.
>
> See, Mr. Giwer, that’s what PEOPLE do. Idiots, like yourself, obviously
> have a “better way.”
>
> Jerk.
>
> Sara
>
> —
> “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
> Christian religion.”
> George Washington, 1796

No-on the Jewish?-rb
>
>>>>
Well, Sara, you have proven your lack of knowledge again. have you
ever heard of St. Boniface? Or the wiritngs of Tacitus on the ancient
Germans? I suggest you sit down and doa little reading for a change.
You MIGHT learn something-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:01 PST 1996
Article: 83835 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:55:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <57ue9[email protected]> – [email protected] Dec 1996
11:24:45 GMT writes:

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <57qq[email protected]> – [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken)
writes:

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <57[email protected]> – 1996 08:53:32 GMT writes:

Badly. Seems they were all at your house. Hope you bought
enough butter to butter your bagel.

That the best you can do
Tell him that you a pre-pubescent boy in search of a 13 year old girl.
That might sweeten him up a bit.

By God, for all the rubbish that transpires in this newsgroup, all
unsubstantiated BS, *that* particular one has been supported by a reference to
the DejaNews location. Why has Mr. Blackmore not explained why he was posting
in the alt.arcadia newsgroup searching for teenaged boys?

>
> :>I’ll tell you why: because I didn’t, silly man. Why are you
> :>wasting people’s time with this nonsense? If this is the only
> :>way you can respond to my posts, I feel sorry for you.
>
> Well, explain the post then. It is still archived in DejaNews.
>
> BTW, spare me the histrionics about the way anyone responds to your posts.
> You started the rough stuff, you brought it upon yourself. Your whining now
> rings hollow.
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Don’t attempt to turn the tables here Mr. McFee. It was definitely
your colleagues, like Mark, etc. who started the rough stuff, and you
finally decided to play tagalong as well. I asked for a cease firing a
long time ago…..

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:02 PST 1996
Article: 83836 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: juhu, Mr. Blackmore
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:30:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Silke-Maria Weineck) writes:
> We’re waiting for your cites on memory.
>
> S.
>
>>>>
Don’t wait too long….you might faint.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:03 PST 1996
Article: 83839 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Good Old Days,1.
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:13:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad27-141.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

I have seen many references to the book “The Good Old
Days” recently by staunch Nizkor devotees. Since I happen
to have this book in my library of comic books, I thought I would begin
an analysis of the contents therein. Let’s begin with chapter one:

We have a letter from Eastern Territory Commander Johannes
Blaskowitz, in which he writes a communication dated February 6, 1940.

He details the fact that a rebel and sabotage organization has sprung up
and that the Security Police are investigating. He accuses the Police of
killing 10,000 Jews. His comments clearly show that he is outraged at
what he perceives to be a great crime. The content of his letter makes it
clear, however, that the culprits he considers responsible are a clique of
irresponsible men, and he advises their immediate arrest.

The unfortunate thing about this letter is that no reply is given from the
military authorities. Without any confirmation of either receipt of the
letter or substantiation of the grave allegations, this document must be
considered worthless.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:03 PST 1996
Article: 83843 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:18:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 53
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References:
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]

Mark, you silly little clown….must you still make an ass
of yourself in front of the whole world? Mark would like
the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for
those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
of people-his benefactors. I have never once read of this
man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
or any other civilians who died during and after the second
world war.

Bellinger, your seeming enjoyment of issue avoidance is pathetic.
> Revisionism, and the Revisionist cause, of which you are self admitedly a
> willing drone, has nothing to do with the death of millions of German
> citizens. The sole purpose of Revisionism is to deny the Holocaust. People
> do not deny that millions of Germans died in the War. People do not deny
> that millions of PEOPLE died in the war. Revisionists, however, persist in
> denying that 12 million people died in the Holocaust, and that 6 million,
> possibly 7 million, of them were Jews.

This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.
Mr. Gandhi-the ardent Nizkor devotee, who chants his lies on every possible
occasion, neither dismayed nor embarassed by the fact that he is a proven
liar over and over again. The sure mark of an irrational fanatic, who believes
on faith.

So, rather than berate people for
> things which they never said, perhaps you could make an attmept at the
> TRUTH. Explain why you lied about the Auschwitz Museum. Explain why you
> lied about the Simon Wiesenthal Centre. Explain why you lied about the
> Discovery Channel.

I never did lie, though your obvious psychological disturbance blinds you
to the truth.
>
> You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
> foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
> overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
> Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.

It isn’t true and you have no facts to prove it. Is that good enough?
>
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come out of raj Gandhi-rblackmore
>
>>>>

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 05:47:04 PST 1996
Article: 83844 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:52:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Kevin Filan) writes:
In article <[email protected]>,
ibokor wrote:>

I do not claim to speak for any other contributor to this
newsgroup, but I, for one, *do* have great sympathy for
innocent victims of war. That is part of the reason I
share Ossietzky’s and Russell’s pacificism.

The “innocent GERMAN victims” red herring keeps coming up on
alt.revisionism. I find this interesting, because:

A) It’s a strawman. Nobody, so far as I can tell, is trying to
deny there were atrocities committed against German citizens during the
latter part of World War II. On soc.history.war.world-war-ii, I recently
> saw a thread on the rape of German women by Russian soldiers. And I’ve
> seen _lots_ of debate on the bombing of Dresden. Nobody has suppressed
> _Slaughterhouse Five_ yet, unless I’ve missed something.

No, it isn’t a strawman. it is entirely relevant.
>
> B) It assumes that in accepting the existence of a Holocaust
> against Jews one must reject the existence of other atrocities. It’s like
> saying one can’t simultaneously condemn Hutu _and_ Tutsi atrocities in
> Rwanda and Burundi.
>
No. All this depends on one’s definition of the Holocaust, and whether the
Jewish persecution was a unique event in human history, or contemporary
history, for that matter.

> C) When you hold the “German atrocity” stories to the same
> standard Revisionists hold the “Jewish atrocity” stories, they all fall
> apart.

How is that?

Jeff Roberts had a big problem accepting stories about Jewish
> gassings, but no problem accepting that Russian soldiers cut the breasts
> off German women or that Hoess and other German defendants were tortured.
> Why doesn’t Greg Raven reject THESE testimonies as quickly as he dismisses
> testimonies of gas chambers.

He may indeed reject them. In any case, why accept an allegation of gas
chambers when there is absolutely no forensic evidence to prove the same?
Accept on faith alone, or on the basis of conflicting eyewitness and survivors
whose tales have been successfully debunked over and over again. If you
are going to charge the nazis with mass murder by gas and still have the
facilities, I would suggest that you offer forensic proof to determine as such
It is amazing that this has never been done, even after 50 years. The
Nizkor devotees are unhappy with the findingas of Leuchter and Rudolf,
and no wonder-it refutes every claim ever made about the “gas chambers”.
>
> >The extent to which the population of a country shares
> >or bears responsibility for the actions and policies
> >of its government(s) depends on numerous factors. If
> >a country is truly democratic, then the actions and
> >policies of the government are legitimately the
> >responsibility of its citizenry with suffrage, otherwise
> >the degree of responsibility varies.
> >
> >Of course this does *not* mean that each individual
> >is/was in agreement with policy and/or action.
>
> Since I came to alt.revisionism, I’ve been looking for some
> evidence that the Allies did medical experiments on German prisoners, or

Our government and others have certainly conducted medical experiments
upon volunteers, as did the German military. Jehovah’s Witnesses underwent
such experiments in this country as did Afro-Americans at Tuskogee.

> that the death rates in Allied POW camps approached the 240% annual death
> rate among Russian POWs in 1942.

Why don’t we examine the death rate of germans in Russian POW camps
Take the captured at Stalingrad, for example. Out of 90,000 prisoners taken,
only 5,000 ever returned home.

So far no Revisionist has presented me
> with this. (Of course, no one has presented evidence of large communities
> of Polish Jews in the Soviet Union).

Will this do for now.

Peace,

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:05 PST 1996
Article: 83864 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:46:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> Note: Followups set.
>
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Ken Lewis)
> wrote:
>
> > To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
> > thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
> >
> > One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
> > attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
> > has never had a thought that his mouth couldn’t use?
>
> > It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
> > longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
> > are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
> > German.
>
> Mr. Bellinger is, and has always been a troll – one who enjoys the lies he
> spreads. He hides behind his nazi apologia with claims to great intellect,
> but he has yet to demonstrate such prowess in this newsgroup. Perhaps in
> another newsgroup, posing as a 14 year old girl, Mr. Bellinger has managed
> to impress others with his vast mental capacity, but not here, where he has
> only been able to dumbfound people with the folly of very poor lies, and
> assertions which he utterly refuses to support with even a shred of
> evidence.
>
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>
>>>>
Why don’t you stop trying to pose as an intelligent human being?
It doesn’t suit your less than modest talents.-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:05 PST 1996
Article: 83865 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:20:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <5758pb[email protected]> – [email protected] Nov 1996
> 22:17:15 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>
> :>>>>>
> :>Mark, you silly little clown….must you still make an ass
> :>of yourself in front of the whole world? Mark would like
> :>the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for
> :>those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
> :>of people-his benefactors. I have never once read of this
> :>man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
> :>or any other civilians who died during and after the second
> :>world war.
>
> Perhaps Mark van Alstine understands what Mr. Blackmore pretends he doesn’t:
> that the fate of the Germans, as terrible as it was, in a war which Germany
> willed and started, is irrelevant to this newsgroup. Perhaps Mr. Blackmore
> should heed the advice of his hero, the drunken sot Giwer, and find a
> newsgroup where discussion of the war is on-topic. He won’t of course, since
> to do that would require a brain and a modicum of decency.
>
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
>
>>>>
Thank you for your irrelevant drivel.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:06 PST 1996
Article: 83875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg “cite”
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:57:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <57[email protected]>, [email protected] (william
> c anderson) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
>
> >: The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
>
> >Uh… Mr. Belling? How do you know in what tone of voice Jackson
> >spoke?
>
> Mindreading is one his many talents. As such, we might as well pack it
> in now since you can’t beat mindreading as an historical method.
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
As if I didn’t expect you to ask that question. How naive…..

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:07 PST 1996
Article: 83884 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:47:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
> >> thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
>
> >> One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
> >> attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
> >> has never had a thought that his mouth couldn’t use?
>
> >> It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
> >> longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
> >> are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
> >> German.
>
> >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
> >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
> >posts? You’re sick, Ken, you need help.
>
> What sort of compulsive-obsessive neurotic would actually write your
> posts?
>
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
What sort of person would respond to them?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:08 PST 1996
Article: 83885 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:30:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected](Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
In [email protected] (Ole Kreiberg)
writes:

Criticising the Jews or failing to symphatizing with them are the
same
as being a nazi in your opinion.

Did the Palestinians become “nazis” after
the zionists had grabbed their country?

For the same reason you don’t laugh at a funeral. Many of their
relatives are still alive and still mourning over the loved ones they
lost in the camps.

I could not care what the Jews are doing over their past.

I think you do care or you wouldn’t post this crap.

I do not
expect the Jews to pay any particular respect for my dead relatives
that died more than fifty years ago, even if they were murdered by
somebody.

If they showed the same disrespect to you that you show to them, you’d
be pissed as hell.

Why do the Jews keep bothering the world with their holocaust story
after
all these years?

Because they don’t want it repeated.

Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman
being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the
right
to kill it?

I do not regard a fetus as human.
So that gives you and the government the right to justify killing it?
Hypocrite.

There is no comparison whatever
between what a woman decides to do with her own body and its contents
and what went on at Auschwitz or any other concentration camp, Nazi or
Communist.

A fetus isn’t a scab or abscess or a piece of crusted snot stuck in her nose.
You obviously fail to appreciate the difference.

And please do not call be a nazi just because I refuse to believe in
the holocaust.

I call you a Nazi because of your hateful in-your-face attitude toward
Jewish people.

No, you call this person a Nazi because it creates a scarecrow for you to set up.

You certainly do have the right to express your beliefs
or disbeliefs or, in this case, your obvious hatred for “the Jews”,

And your obvious hatred and contempt for the unborn.

just as a Communist has the right to burn the American flag. But, like
the flag-burning Communist, you can damn well expect other people to be
pissed as hell at you.

I was once in a bank and heard two Jewish people vehemently
arguing over who was going to have the privledge of using the
telephone next. Finally, one of the Jews screamed out-“You’re
nothing but a Nazi! A Nazi!” All the customers in the bank turned
and simply stared at these two elderly Jews, wearing yarmulkas.-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83886 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:34:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Robert) writes:
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

In article , [email protected]
(Robert) wrote:

[snip]

I was trying to communicate (although i now know it didnt work;)
(kinda hasty)
that..the unborn human being is not a part of the womans body but a
new human being itself.

Not until its viable, Robert.

Before that, it is a part of MY body.

It is not YOUR body.-rb

Sara

that is not a very scientific statement
personhood being a human being what ever
doesnt depend on viability!
Un new born baby is viabal (and would die
without the mother)
or would you expect a neglected hungry freezin
unborn..to say (sheesh im tierd of this now)
standing up getting some bug..driving to the drugstore
for some baby food and diapers?
Many poeple depend on medication to survive on glasses
to wear what ever (doesnt mean that are not human beings)

And still its not a part of your body;)..read a book about
embreylogy:)

Greetings from Germany

Robert

How does this reflect on the horror of our time, when
expectant mothers turn into murderous beasts?-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 08:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83887 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism…..
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:34:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd71-046.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Robert) writes:
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

In article , [email protected]
(Robert) wrote:

[snip]

I was trying to communicate (although i now know it didnt work;)
(kinda hasty)
that..the unborn human being is not a part of the womans body but a
new human being itself.

Not until its viable, Robert.

Before that, it is a part of MY body.

It is not YOUR body.-rb

Sara

And still its not a part of your body;)..read a book about
embreylogy:)

Greetings from Germany

Robert

How does this reflect on the horror of our time, when
expectant mothers turn into murderous beasts?-rb

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 09:25:48 PST 1996
Article: 83893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!metro.atlanta.com!news.he.net!uwm.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:04:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad27-141.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here are a few tidbits to ponder:

In a June 4, 1937 circular notice sent to all commanders of concentration
camps by the Chief Inspector of Concentration Camps, SS General Theodore
Eicke, we find the following:

In a section headed “Mistreatment of Prisoners” Eicke announces that an SS
Sergeant named Zeidler was being punished because “in a sadistic mood”, he
had struck a prisoner at the Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp “in a nasty
way”. After demotion to the lowest SS rank, Zeidler was permanently
dismissed from the SS and then turned over to as criminal court judge.
“This case will be known as a warning example”, Eiche wrote. “During
instruction classes, attention should repeatedly be given to the consequences
of mistreating prisoners. Even a simple boxing of ears is already a
mistreatment……In every case, the reputation of the SS is to be kept clean
by dismissing the culprit.” Eicke further ordered that the various SS units
be informed of the contents of the circular.

Also:

This headline appeared in the German newspapers in December 1937:

“Death Sentence for Murderer of a Jew. The Third Reich guarantees protection
of law for all residents. Terrible crime punished.”

A jury court in Stettin, the paper informed readers, had sentenced Josef
Reinhardt to death for killing a Jewish businessman named Abraham and his
non-Jewish wife. One accomplice was sentenced to lofe imprisonment, and a
second to six years imprisonment. The report continued:

“That the victim was a Jew made no difference inn passing sentence, the
presiding judge stressed. The Third Reich is a state of law, in which Jews
enjoy the protection of law every bit as much as other residents. Murder is
still murder, and will be punished most severely in each case.” Murder
remained a crime during the war years. Paragraph 211 of the revised German
Penal Code (Published in October 1943) defined murder without qualification
about the victim’s race, religion, or nationality, and designated capital
punishment for those convicted of the crime. German military regulations
were even more strict. The updated 1943 code spelled out severe punnishment
for the soldier who carried out orders in violation of law. “The
subordinate….is punishable as a participant…when he knows that the
superior’s order would have the aim of leading to a military or other crime
or violation.” (New York Review, Oct. 7, 1993, pp. 51-52.)

During the Nuremberg Trials of 1945-46, evidence was presented to show that
German soldiers who had murdered civilians, including Jews, were severely
punished. (IMT “blue series” Vol. 42, pp. 238-242).

Extensive testimony and evidence was also supplied at Nuremberg by the
testimony of two SS Judges: Konrad Morgen and Judge Reinecke, both of whom
related many cases of severe punishment of SS men for violations of the law
in the mistreatment of concentration camp prisoners.

Also, there are many documents written by the public prosecutor of Munich to
Chief of Police Heinrich Himmler asking for full authority to investigate
cases of murder and mistreatment by concentration camp staff at Dachau.
Himmler gave the prosecutor complete authority to conduct all necessary
investigations, and to arrest and charge any SS guard who appeared
to be guilty of violating the law.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 09:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 83894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:35:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd33-025.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 29 Nov 1996 22:12:30 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
> >> [email protected] (R) writes:
> >> > It appears we have another koward here; afraid to report the
> >> >”crime” as his wild imagination would have it.
>
> >> Tell me, when are you going to make good your threats to report Nizkor
> >> to Revenue Canada? Or do you just lack the cajones?
>
> >When are you going to admit your affiliation with a synagogue?
> >Or don’t you have the cajones, pendejo?
>
> Joseph Bellinger now joins the fruitcake brigade along with
> Giwer.
>
> His research into Nizkor’s background is as sloppy as the rest of
> his research.
>
>
>>>>
Then you deny it?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 09:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 83900 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:21:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Kevin Filan) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Gord McFee wrote:
>
> >Perhaps Mark van Alstine understands what Mr. Blackmore pretends he doesn’t:
> >that the fate of the Germans, as terrible as it was, in a war which Germany
> >willed and started, is irrelevant to this newsgroup. Perhaps Mr. Blackmore
> >should heed the advice of his hero, the drunken sot Giwer, and find a
> >newsgroup where discussion of the war is on-topic. He won’t of course, since
> >to do that would require a brain and a modicum of decency.
>
> I personally don’t have any objection to hearing stories about
> atrocities committed against Germans during WW II. While they’re probably
> off-topic for alt.revisionism, certainly they’re no more off-topic than
> discussions about Jewish control of “international finance” and “the world
> media,” Israeli human rights abuses, etc. I would ask that the
> “Revisionist” crew hold these stories to the same standard as they hold
> testimony from Jews or other concentration camp survivors — but I doubt I
> will see that happen any time soon.
>
> What I find funny is this; many of the “Revisionists” seem to feel
> that we’re “anti-German racists.” In their reality tunnel, it’s
> impossible to assume that there are actually _nonracists_ or
> _anti-racists_. Instead, everyone must be either an “anti-Jewish racist”
> or an “anti-German racist.” (The fact that no one seems to see any
> “Holohugger” quotes advocating violence against Germans, calling Germans
> inherently evil or violent, etc. doesn’t seem to matter… but then, these
> guys seem to have a little problem with inconvenient facts.
>
> Peace
> Kevin Filan
>
>>>>
Well, I for one have never implied any of the above. In fact, I simply
point out what appears to be a hypocritical double standard by Nizkor
devotees.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 09:25:50 PST 1996
Article: 83903 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.lava.net!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:52:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> : > He will now begin with speculations about the suspicious fact
> : > that most witnesses are dead now.
> : >>>>
>
> : What will you begin with? That they can be believed? Sancta Simplissimus!
>
> Is it your acquaintance with the person, you know best, that you assume
> everybody is just another liar?
>
> And can you explain why some German administrator in occupied Ukraine
> would send an official report to his superiors about mass-killings of
> Jews which, according to your opinion, did not take place?
>
> u.roessler [email protected]
>
>>>>
I did not say that all reports were contrived nor that people were
not shot in the USSR. How does this prove the tale of the Holocaust
that 6 million jews were killed?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 10:59:01 PST 1996
Article: 83910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:50:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-042.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>

>
> # I received the info from a Jewish researcher.
>
> The stupid, lying Nazi now blames a mysterious “Jewish
> researcher” for the lies he posted. Just who is that
> “Jewish researcher”? David Cole, maybe? Do tell us.

He was a Jew-like you.
>
> # And your hero Glazer never mentions Ukrainian SS
> # guards. Only SS in Green and Black uniforms.
>
> No, lying Nazi. Learn to read. According to what was
> quoted, he said he saw SS-men AND black uniforms AND
> green uniforms.
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
And you now decide that they were germans and Ukrainians?
That’s not what your liar said, silly fool.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 10:59:02 PST 1996
Article: 83912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!blackbush.xlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No3 LIAR
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:26:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd63-030.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
[email protected] writes:

# Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was
# polluted.

Not a good enough excuse. Think of something better.

What is better than the truth? You and I have different standards.

# Mr. Giwer also makes a good point when he adds that the
# British had to have provided some special filtering
# apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.

And where is this “special filtering apparatus” mentioned?

Need it have been mentioned? Use your God-given common sense
Sometimes there is more than meets the eye……

-Danny Keren.

Keith Morrison writes:
Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

[email protected] writes:

Answer: rblackmore has evidently not researched it. The modern
treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement. Kramer provided neither. He
cut off the water. Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
dystentery.

Yes, this is what I have already said. However, you have already stated that
all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
heart’s content…..By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
administered intravenously.

Where did the water the British supplied come from?

Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?

—
Keith Morrison
> > [email protected]
> >
> >>>>
> Well, that’s a clever reply. And I suppose the food could have come
> >from your buttocks…..
>
>
> From [email protected] Wed Oct 2 08:16:30 PDT 1996
> Article: 70785 of alt.revisionism
> Path:
> nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hoo
> kup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!
> www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols
> .com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sp
> rynet.com!news
> From: [email protected]
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
> Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:36:43 GMT
> Organization: Sprynet News Service
> Lines: 20
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> References: <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> NNTP-Posting-Host: ad46-142.compuserve.com
> X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
>
> > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> > In message <[email protected]> – Keith Morrison Mon, 30 Sep
> > 1996 19:28:45 -0300 writes:
> > :>
> > :>>
> > :>> Where did the water the British supplied come from?
> > :>
> > :>Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
> >
> > That, or else it was carted in single-handed by l’il Erniekins Zuendel, at the
> > tender age of 5 or whatever.
> >
> >
> > —
> > Gord McFee
>
>>>>
You will have to ask Mr. Zundel’s publishing house about that one.

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 12:08:02 PST 1996
Article: 83928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I could have danced all Night
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:29:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
Hans Frank. Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
wrote:

“The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto.”

Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.

Of course neither of Schwartz’s allegations was
true. He must have attended the same SHAEF
meetings as Chuckles Feree,

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 15:35:57 PST 1996
Article: 83928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I could have danced all Night
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:29:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
Hans Frank. Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
wrote:

“The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto.”

Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.

Of course neither of Schwartz’s allegations was
true. He must have attended the same SHAEF
meetings as Chuckles Feree,

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 15:35:58 PST 1996
Article: 83951 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: juhu, Mr. Blackmore
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:19:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-015.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Silke-Maria Weineck) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] (Silke-Maria Weineck) writes:
> : > We’re waiting for your cites on memory.
> : >
> : > S.
> : >
> : >>>>
> : Don’t wait too long….you might faint.
>
> Die from consumption, you mean?
>
> S.
>
>>>>
Huh?

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 15:35:59 PST 1996
Article: 83952 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!erix.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never Trust a Nazi (Re: never trust a confession)
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:21:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd63-030.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
[email protected] writes:

# There is no forensic evidence to prove that people
# were gassed by the Nazis.

Incredibly enough, the lying Nazi apologist continues to make
this claim, although even the “revisionists” admit that there
are still cyanide compounds in the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
gas chambers.

I always admitted this as well, so why are you deliberately posting
misleading remarks, Doctor Keren? The minute compounds found
in the walls at Auschwitz Birkenau were very minute and certainly not
evidence that millions of people were murdered there. The compounds
were consistent with the general practice of the Nazis to delouse all areas
regularly with Zyklon B. You choose to attach a significant interpretation
to a common procedure in the camp. It serves your purposes well. In fact,
many of your posts seem to be self-serving.

This makes the gassing in that camp one of only events in WW2
for which there is forensic evidence.

Er-Dr. Keren, I, we, they, others disagree.

There is, for instance, no forensic evidence to the bombing of
Dresden, or to the alleged deaths of 3 million German civilians
after the war.

Only the reports of the German Red Cross at the time along with
a score of photos….where are your photos of a gas chamber in
action? The bodies we see in certain phots from Auschwitz died
as a result of the many dangerous epidemics which spread throughout
the camp. Again you choose to attach sinister interpretations without
a shred of proof merely because it suits your present purposes, then
you try to twist things around and tell revisionsits it is their duty to prove
that things never happened the way you describe them. Sorry, but the
real world doesn’t work that way-maybe your world does, but not reality.
You are accusing and you are prosecuting-it is up to you to provide the
proof.

If the lying Nazi apologist believes there is such evidence, he
is most welcome to tell us where it can be found. If not, and if
he has any honesty whatsoever, he has to admit that, according
to his own standards, these events never took place.

But how many honest Nazi apologists are there? None.

You identify me as a Nazi apologist so you make another unproveable
accusation. My opinion differs from yours so you attach a
sinister label rather than provide proof for any of your remarks
Typical, and I am convinced that browsers can see through the tactics
with ease.

>
>>>>

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 15:36:00 PST 1996
Article: 83961 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mass Murder at Kaunas?
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:08:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd03-061.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Concerning my post about an alleged mass murder of
3 thousand people ay Kaunas VII, quoted from
“The Good Old Days”:

I was wondering if anyone ever excavated the site
to determine whether a crime of this magnitude ever
occurred? I’ll bet not…………

From [email protected] Thu Dec 5 15:36:00 PST 1996
Article: 83970 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days 3….The Diary
Date: 4 Dec 1996 11:29:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd40-225.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] writes:
Chapter 3 is interesting in that it purports to show
photographic copies of a diary allegedly kept by
a German officer in a motorcycle battalion. The first
part of the diary is harmless enough, with tales of
marching out to the strains of “Muss i denn, muss i denn,,,,

Yet in the second half of the diary, when the soldier is
supposed to be in Russia and a witness to horrible massacres,
an odd thing occurs:

The first part of the diary is written in a completely different
script and handwriting than the second half, where all the
alleged atrocitites are detailed.

> Conclusion: The second half of the diary is a phoney, or
> else written by an entirely different person. In any event, the
> details alleged in the second half of the diary are unsubstantiated.
>
>>>>
I see that I was criticized for writing the above. However, what in
God’s name are they nit-picking about? As ALL may see, I clearly
wrote:

” it purports to show
> photographic copies of a diary allegedly kept by
> a German officer in a motorcycle battalion.”

Of course the entries had to be written by someone. They
weren’t written by the whole battalion, silly people. Someone
was assigned the task of maintaining the daily log of events.

Later, I wrote:

” The second half of the diary is a phoney, or
> else written by an entirely different person. In any event, the
> details alleged in the second half of the diary are unsubstantiated.”

Likewise, these are apparent and are facts. All this hubbub over
nothing.
>

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:38 PST 1996
Article: 84009 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier tactics: Quoting out of context; the case of Kurt Stele’s .sig
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:24:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Marty Kelley writes:
For some time, “Kurt Stele” has been using the following quote as his
.signature file:

snip

This holds as true for first-person
accounts of the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights movement, the American
revolution, and the Teapot Dome scandal as it does for the Holocaust, and
to imply, as “Stele” does, that Holocaust survivors are _more_ prone to
such errors of subjectivity than other witnesses to historical events, is
a deliberate twisting of Gringauz’s purpose.

I would like to thank Mr. “Stele” for giving me the opportunity to read an
interesting series of articles that reflects the early state of Holocaust
research. I would also invite him to read the entire Gringauz article
and ask himself if he is using the quote honestly.

Posted to alt.revisionism and E-mailed to “Kurt Stele” and Nizkor.
Followups to alt.revisionism, please. E-mailed replies to this message
will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise requested by sender<<< ---------------------- Marty Kelley ([email protected]) "We are confronted by insurmountable opportunities" > –Pogo
>
>
>
>
>>>>
In all fairness, I don’t think that Mr. Stele meant to imply that every
single witness to the Holocaust is a liar or was fantasizing. I think
the every statement charging particularly serious crimes should be
fully investigated. The quote, whether from a sociologist or from Yad
Vashem, merely indicates the unreliability of survivor’s testimony in general.
Another researcher told me about one year ago that Yad Vashem issued
a similar statement, but I cannot provide the evidence for that here.
Perhaps someone else can? The alleged statement from Yad Vashem was
much more recent than Mr. Stele’s quote.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:39 PST 1996
Article: 84016 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.94.215.18!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:59:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd47-167.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
> >Do you deny that there are or were forgeries and lies? I am far
> >from helpless. i do not cry out “lies” or “forgeries” out of
> >anguish or desperation. Would you care to review some of these
> >lies and forgeries? if so, access Deja News and research all my
> >posts under “Soviet Def Comedy Jam”. There are a number of them.
> >Then come back and lets discuss it.
>
> Will you deal with the lies and forgeries discussed in my series of
> articles, “Revisionist Def Comedy Jam?” There are a number of them as
> well.
>
> You have offered NO evidence that the documents posted here are
> forgeries. If you are claiming that the mere existence of some lies and
> forgeries entitles you to call _everything_ a lie or forgery unless proven
> genuine, then intellectual consistency (something you would do well to
> learn) would require that you prove all your claims, since so many
> revisionist claims have been shown to be falsified in some manner.

No. I am not claiming this. I have referred to this in e-mail and Mike has my
permission to post it, should he feel inclined.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:40 PST 1996
Article: 84027 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 5 Dec 1996 20:40:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd71-021.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]

You are wrong again, as usual. this is getting to be a habit with you.
The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.

Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
can’t hear you… the cat got your tongue?

[snip]

I gave you the source in a previous post.

No, Mr. Bel;ling, that was an incomplete cite. Please give a full cittion:
Author, title, page.

As if you could care…….You have the source…research it. I
gave you the title, BTW.

Mr. Belling, your continued evasion is quite telling of your inability to
parroting fictions that something somebody else has fed you.

_If_, you posses the book that you claim says the French first initiated
chemical warfare in WWI, it would be a small matter to spend a few minutes
to find the exact page where this is noted. It would be a small matter of
a few minutes to then post a full citation of this.

That you can’t or won’t simply indicates to me that you _don’t_ have the
book in question in your possesion. (It is also likely you _never_ had it
your possession.)

Then why have I quoted from it extensively in previous posts?

Thus, the implication- at best -is that you are
speaking about something off the top of your head and are mistaken, but
refuse to admit this.

I will admit this is a possibility.

Or, Mr. Belling, at worst you are dishonestly
fabricating your claim out of thin air. (Probably due to your misplaced
Germanophilla.)

I wouldn’t do that. And my Germanophilla is not misplaced. Would you expect
an Afro-American to not defend his heritage, if unjustifiable accused? Would you
expect a Jew not to defend his, under similar circumstances?

Either way, Mr. Belling, you childish evasions speak of a person with
little or no integrity, intellectual honesty, or ethics….

How wrong you are.

Hardly the kind of person that need be taken seriously in _any_ kind of forum.

Then why do you bother to respond to my arguments? Now, since you
have badgered me for the proof that the French began the use of
poison gas I will give you the reference- in German.

“Die Luege von deutschen Giftgasverbrechen im Ersten Weltkrieg
ist auferstanden im Zuge des Golfkrieges 1991, als Massenmedien
den angeblich drohenden Giftgaseinsatz durch Saddam
Hussein mit den “deutschen Vergasungsverbrechen des Ersten
Weltkreiges” verglichen.

DaB die franzoesische und nicht die deutsche Seite mit dem
Einsatz von Giftgas begann, bestaetigte auch Arthur Ponsonby
in seinem……Buch:

In allen franzoesischen Zeitungen wurde zu Beginn des Kreiges
festgestellt, daB die Schwierigkeiten in der Handhabung dieser
Bomben (mit Gas) ueberwunden und sie bestimmen Abschnitten
der franzoesische Front mit vortrefflichem Erfolg verwendet worden
seien….Es stellte sich heraus, daB die Deutschen nicht die ersten
gewesen waren, die Giftgas verwendeten. Turpins Entdeckungen
von giftigen Explosivstoffen wurden in der franzoesischen Presse
schon vorher angekuendigt, ebenso waren die amtlichen Anweisungen
des franzoesischen Kreigsministeriums ueber den Gebrauch von
Gashabdgranaten schon im Herbst 1914 erlassen worden.

Auch Otto Stuelpnagel fuehrte den Nachweis ueber die Erstanwendung
der Gaswaffe durch Frankreich:

“Im Weltkreige sind Gaswaffen zuerst von Frankreich angewandt worden,
Die Grbrauchsanweisung des franzoesischen Kreigsministerium vom 21.
Februar 1915 hebt bereits die Notwendigkeit ausdruecklich hervor, dis
Gaswehrgranaten slavenweise zu verwenden. Diese Massenwirkung
trat zum ersten Male am 22 April 1915 bei einem deutschen Angriff bei
Ypern praktisch in Erscheinung……Wieder war es Frankreich, das zuerst
mit einer reinen Gasgrenate, der Phosgen-Granate, ohne jede Sprengladung
im Fruehjahr 1916 hervortrat. Diesen Geschossen gegenueber war Deutschland
berechtigt, auf Grund des voelkerrechtlich anerkannten Notstandes, ein
aehnliches GeschoB einzufuehren.”

Source: Vorsicht! Faelschung! Munich, 1994, pp/ 58,59.

So there is your source which you were clamoring for. I shall leave it
to your colleagues to translate it for you. Knowing your tactics as I do,
you would only accuse me of mistranslating the text.

Good luck, read it, and weep.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:41 PST 1996
Article: 84029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!EU.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Man Winter
Date: 4 Dec 1996 07:07:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-249.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Here is the treatment a respected and elderly
> >German Industrialist received from his beneficent
> >American captors:
>
> […]
>
> >Source: The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.
>
> This story may or may not be true. What are *your* criteria
> for supposing it to be true? You seem to have read it in a
> book. Fine, but you dismiss out of hand any number of
> Holocaust testimonies which have appeared in hundreds, nay
> thousands of books. What makes C. Belfrage, who I notice
> doesn’t even name this “respected and elderly German
> Industrialist”, worthy of your belief or mine?
>
> Did you believe the Auschwitz death march testimony I
> posted yesterday? If not, why not?
>
>>>>
I tried to locate the article you posted yesterday on Auschwitz
but I could not find it. Would you mind e-mailing it to me?

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:42 PST 1996
Article: 84042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:52:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

Nice try at putting the cart before the horse, Mr. Thomas, but not up to your
usual standards. Historians of the era, especially those well familiar with
Himmler’s voice, do not dispute that it is he who is speaking in the
recording.

But one of his Generals did.

David Irving and Robert Faurisson–the two darlings of
“revisionists”– have both admitted this. Your former colleague in denierism,
Friedrich Berg, has admitted that the voice is Himmler’s.

Berg?

So, it is left to
only a few loonies like the drunkard Giwer, and his impressionable disciple
Blackmore, to whine that it’s not the real goods. Yet, neither of them has
the guts to accept a simple challenge that will settle the matter and, if they
are right, make them some money in the process. I wonder why that would be?

—
Gord McFee
I’ll write no line before its time

>>>>
You claim the tape is authentic—-you foot the bill. I am now Giwer’s
disciple? When will it be “time” for you to write the truth?

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:43 PST 1996
Article: 84043 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:52:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

>
> Nice try at putting the cart before the horse, Mr. Thomas, but not up to your
> usual standards. Historians of the era, especially those well familiar with
> Himmler’s voice, do not dispute that it is he who is speaking in the
> recording. David Irving and Robert Faurisson–the two darlings of
> “revisionists”– have both admitted this. Your former colleague in denierism,
> Friedrich Berg, has admitted that the voice is Himmler’s. So, it is left to
only a few loonies like the drunkard Giwer, and his impressionable disciple
Blackmore, to whine that it’s not the real goods. Yet, neither of them has
the guts to accept a simple challenge that will settle the matter and, if they
are right, make them some money in the process. I wonder why that would be?

—
Gord McFee
I’ll write no line before its time

>>>>
You claim the tape is authentic—-you foot the bill. I am now Giwer’s
disciple? When will it be “time” for you to write the truth?

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:43 PST 1996
Article: 84044 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 5 Dec 1996 20:51:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd41-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> Would you propose that we should assume that the various witnesses
> >> cited in John Sack’s AN EYE FOR AN EYE were fantasizing, then? How
> >> about the witnesses to the alleged firebombing of Dresden?
> >>
> >I would suggest that Shlomo’s hiding out doesn’t look good
> >for him.
>
> What do you mean by “hiding”? Sack had several conversations with
> him. Does the fact that he happens to live in Israel suffice for
> you to consider him a criminal? Well, yes, I suppose it does….
>
>>>>
No, the fact that he murdered children suffices for me to consider
him a criminal. And you? What’s your excuse?

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:44 PST 1996
Article: 84045 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 5 Dec 1996 21:18:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd10-153.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Mr. Belling, your continued inability to master your newsreader is quite
> appalling. Is there some problem on your part? Perhaps a bit of remedial
> help is in order? That you are mangling the formatting of the text and
> often eliminating or invalidating the attribution characters, is confusing
> the discussion. Please, have the common courtesy to properly format your
> posts to maintain the proper attributions.

I must inform you that when I send them from my screen, they look
absolutely fine…what exactly is happening?
>
> [Text snipped due to Mr. Belling’s mangling of the text, I can no longer
> determine the proper attributions and assume the text is corrupted….]
>
> When you have properly mastered your newsreader and repost your reply, Mr.
> Belling, I would be more than happy to address whatever issues may have
> raised….

I have no idea what I posted now. As I said I don’t know what is happening as
it looks fine at this end.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 04:16:45 PST 1996
Article: 84065 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Ms. Alpert-“A Shooting at Ilkenau”
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:06:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd03-061.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

In response to your comment on the shooting of
Tadeusz Lupa at Ilkenau from “The Good Old Days”

I was just wondering whether you ever stopped to
consider that Tadeusz Lupa ran because he committed
the crime? No one else made any attempt to flee-perhaps
because they were simply innocent.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:35 PST 1996
Article: 84102 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:28:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd63-030.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]

You are wrong again, as usual. this is getting to be a habit with you.
The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.

Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
can’t hear you… the cat got your tongue?

>
> [snip]
>
> > >>>>
> > I gave you the source in a previous post.
>
> No, Mr. Bel;ling, that was an incomplete cite. Please give a full cittion:
> Author, title, page.
>

>
>>>>
As if you could care…….You have the source…research it. I
gave you the title, BTW.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:36 PST 1996
Article: 84105 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:10:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-015.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article ,
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.

Isn’t it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
nonsense? He’s been beautifully trained, hasn’t he?

> > > > Bet he can sit up and beg, too.
> > > >
> > > > Sara
> > >
> > > I’m working on it…. };->
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >>>>
> > The report came from Zundel, as you well know. Woof Woof
>
> Good boy! Now beg!
>

Are you having fun, little boy?

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:37 PST 1996
Article: 84114 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!166.84.0.219!panix!netaxs.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 5 Dec 1996 19:49:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad46-147.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <58216[email protected]> – [email protected] Dec 1996
20:05:30 GMT writes:

[email protected] (Brian Harmon) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
[snip]

I am not playing games. The recording should have been subjected to
analysis years ago.

Well, here’s your chance. We can subject the tape to
the analysis that no historian thought was necessary.

The authenticity of the Himmler recording has been disputed by no serious
historian, and has in fact been accepted by David Irving and Robert Faurisson,
two of the “revisionist” leading “scholars”. It has also been accepted as
genuine by Friedrich Berg, who posted here before your time, and not only was
a “revisionist”, he was an out-and-out Nazi, native German speaker who lived
through the war.

Isn’t this the kind of forensic analysis you deniers
are always screaming for?

Coward.

you will attempt to cook the books as to what it means? If it is as phoney as
you claim, what does it matter what the words mean?

Actually, I have always maintained this interpretation, whether in previous
posts or in private e-mail correspondence.

….However, what will this prove? A clever interpolator,
>using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
the tape….that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
guilty party would confess to the deed….

And what understanding do you have of recording technology,
mr. Blackmore? If you are concernd that a clever forger
would elude the analytical skill of the experts, why don’t
you contact some experts and ask them about it?

Well, I really don’t consider it all that important. Having been a professional
musician for many years, I know a bit about recording techiques, but
I am not claiming to be an expert in the field by any means.
> :>
> :>The experts were the ones who may have forged the recording to
> :>begin with, The time for investigation should have been when the
> :>tape was offered into evidence-not 50 years later.
>
> The recording was made 52 years ago. The level of “forging” to pull this one
> off did not exist yet, as I am sure you know.

This would really not have been difficult, if the forgers had two machines to
work with, as I am sure they did. And I know from personal contacts, that
forgeries were rather commonplace among the investigators.

In any event, the independent
> analysis would eliminate any such possibility.

Well, yes. However, I have indicated that I do not regard the speech as
particularly damaging in the overall sense that it is invariably taken. If
someone should undertake to determine the authenticity of this recording,
that would be fine with me. I know you have not overlooked my point that the
time to examine the authenticity of this recording was when it was placed into
evidence at Nuremberg-not fifty years later. But it does tell us a bit about
the procedures of the IMT.

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:38 PST 1996
Article: 84132 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!demos!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:51:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:

The “leading German general” was Oswald Pohl, if memory serves, and since he
was greatly expecting to have his neck stretched big time for his role in the
Final Solution, it is not surprising that he tried to distance himself from
the speech, which he saw “live” by the way.

No. The leading General was Berger. Pohl simply said he didn’t know what the
hell Himmler was talking about.

The tape was never subjected to analysis at the time to determine if
it was authentic.

It didn’t have to be, since everyone who knew Himmler agreed it was genuine.

Well, that is a foolish answer of I ever heard one, and I would not have expected it
>from you. I already gave you two sources close to Himmler who questioned it. This is
avoiding the issue. And the issue is that the tape should have been subjected
to analysis at the time it was placed into evidence.- You might want to provide us
with a list of people who knew Himmler and agreed that it was genuine, just for
argument’s sake.-rb

> It did not resurface after 45 years.-GM

Afraid it did.-RB
>
> :>Lets look at it this way now:
> :>
> :>Jewish people have been accused by many authors of baking
> :>blood into matzoh during the course of alleged ritual murder.
> :>Would anyone hold it reasonable to now begin subjecting maztzoh
> :>cakes around the world to chemical analysis? And how much
> :>more absurd it would be if we expected the jewish people to pay
> :>for this task.
>
> Your analogy means that you are a Nazi, since you are attempting to claim that
> the person denying the fact must pay the cost of disproving it. Thanks for
> the admission, although I expect it was unintentional.

What you write is silly.-rb

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:38 PST 1996
Article: 84139 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:56:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> : You claim the tape is authentic—-you foot the bill.
>
> Chicken.
>
> Bill
>
>>>>
The comments on the tape are insignificant. Why should I pay
to prove you and your ilk losers, which is what I am aware of
anyway. -rb

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:39 PST 1996
Article: 84142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!surfnet.nl!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Jackson Nuremberg cite (Disintegrator ray)
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:11:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> Joseph Belling, under the name [email protected], in
> <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >Mr. Morris, of course, is in error, as the Germans would hardly
> >have used this alleged incident of mass murdering Jews outside
> >of Auschwitz. in an effort to “build up the morale”, or induce
> >German citiaens to believe in the imminent appearance of “mystery weapons”.
>
> Why not? BTW, as I pointed out previously, it’s not clear from
> Speer’s testimony, although it is suggested by Jackson’s
> question, that the German government had anything to do with this
> story. What is in question is whether Jackson charged anyone with
> the use of this weapon. Now, one doesn’t need a law degree to
> know that a prosecutor’s examination does not constitute
> “charges”. If Jackson did charge Speer or anyone else with using
> that weapon, you should be able to quote these charges.
>
> >The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
> >and it is very clear that he for one believed the reports.
>
> Oh, golly, you have the tape? Have you submitted it to laboratory
> examination? What was its provenance? How do you know it’s
> authentic?
>
>>>>
You’ll have to pay for it….

From [email protected] Fri Dec 6 17:44:40 PST 1996
Article: 84143 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!surfnet.nl!swidir.switch.ch!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:05:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >You have only quoted one case, Mr. Keren. One carrot in boiling water
> >does not make a stew.
>
> That’s what the prisoners in the camps said.
>
>
>
>>>>
But it was a BIG CARROT,
Mike.

From [email protected] Sat Dec 7 09:54:47 PST 1996
Article: 84220 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:21:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>
> # When looking at the 1944 photograph of Treblinka, keep in mind
> # there is Holocaust accounting that has the camp as being over-run
> # by the Soviets while it was still in full operation.
>
> Tommy, according to all sources I have seen, the camp was
> partially destroyed in the August 1943 sonderkommando rebellion,
> and later that year dismantled by the SS. This was long before
> the Soviets liberated the area.
>
> Perhaps you’re confusing Treblinka and Maidanek?
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
>
>
>>>>
Perhaps you’re confusing these labor camps with death camps?-rb

From [email protected] Sat Dec 7 09:54:48 PST 1996
Article: 84257 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:34:09 GMT
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> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > > [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
> > >
> > > # When looking at the 1944 photograph of Treblinka, keep in mind
> > > # there is Holocaust accounting that has the camp as being over-run
> > > # by the Soviets while it was still in full operation.
> > >
> > > Tommy, according to all sources I have seen, the camp was
> > > partially destroyed in the August 1943 sonderkommando rebellion,
> > > and later that year dismantled by the SS. This was long before
> > > the Soviets liberated the area.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you’re confusing Treblinka and Maidanek?
> > >
> > >
> > > -Danny Keren.
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>
> > Perhaps you’re confusing these labor camps with death camps?-rb
>
> And perhaps Mr. Belling is just plain “confused?”
>
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/bellinger-joseph
>

As to why you believe what you do–yes.

From [email protected] Sat Dec 7 09:54:49 PST 1996
Article: 84258 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt’s Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:33:05 GMT
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> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>

Simply referring to the main points as I see it:

I have seen photos of the corpses which were introduced in
evidence at the Naztweiler trial, and a number of the victims
were Asian and uncircumcised. Thus, they were not Jews,
as you claimed.

Two, it is not unusual for an Institute of Anatomy to have dismembered
or even decapitated corpses.

Three, if a gas chamber was built, it could very well have been a legal
gas chamber to carry out executions of criminals.

four, logic tells me that it would have been both superfluous and foolish
to construct a gas chamber when the victims could have been easily
despatched with a phenol injection. This is the weakest part of your
tale.

five, you have no order requisitioning cyanide by Dr. Hirt. Just because
you say he could have done it easily does not make it so, nor would it
suffice in any impartial court of law as evidence.

six, Dr. Hirt mysteriously vanished, which makes the concoction of a
phoney story all the easier.-rb

The Aktion Reinhard Death Camps

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Bergen-Belsen

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Chelmno

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Mauthausen

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Belzec

Treblinka

Mittelbau Dora

Gusen

Westerbork

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John Hron

Ken McVay

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