Blackmore 1196 part 2, Bellinger Joseph

Daniel Keren writes:
> [email protected]
> Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin,
> 30 January 1942. Quoted in “The Holocaust”, by Martin Gilbert,
> Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, 1985, p. 285. Text as monitored by the
> Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service, Federal Communications Commission.
> ———————————————————————
> And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it
> will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of
> this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.

Fact is, it turned out to be the opposite of what Hitler predicted.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:17 PST 1996
Article: 81215 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:27:43 GMT
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
> ———————————————————-
> We have – I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
> taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
> first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
> this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
> mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
> Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a
> matter of cleanliness.

Compare Himmler’s comments with those of the jewish publisher
Theodore Kaufmann, who wrote:

There is no longer any alternative: Germany must perish!…This
analagous linking of the people of Germany with savage beast
is no vulgar comparison. I feel no more personal hatred for these
people than I might feel for a herd of wild animals or a cluster of
poisonous reptiles…..They are but beasts; they must be dealt with
as such…….(the Germans serve as) “hypodermics through which
the malignant bacilli of Germanism was being syringed into the
bloodstream…..”

Of course, Mr. Kaufmann really didn’t MEAN what he said, did he?
And his ideas were NEVER put into effect, were they?
Think again, dear readers.

Quotes from: Germany Must Perish, by Theodore Kaufmann,
N.J. 1941.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:28:04 GMT
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> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
> > > Chuck Ferree wrote:
> > >
> > > Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
> > >
> > > Chuck

> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > > clips
> > >
> > > What I am trying to do is see if
> > > > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> > > > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
> > > > enough?
> > >
> > > Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
> > > not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

What happened to the Germans was as I seem
> > > to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
> > > collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
> > > to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
> > > Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it. Remind me to call on your humble
services when the present Pope dies. It seems we have two infallible
people in this world: The Pope and the Anti-Pope.

> > > BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in
> > > Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
> Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
> ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden. The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps
higher according to the latest estimates as well as estimates at the time.
>
> But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
> attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
> tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths. These
are men, women and children….grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
arms, all fleeing for sanctuary…..You have your images confused.

> In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
> unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don’t you tell us more about Poland-which was SO greedy that it gobbled
up a portion of Czechoslovakia at the same time as Hitler, and which greedily
hung on to Danzig, which was never hers to hold on to at all, except by the whimsy
of the allies, and which embarked upon a program of persecution against ethnic
Germans long before Hitler ever invaded their country? To say that his invasion
was unprovoked is quite naive.

the Anglo-American bombing
> against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
> The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives.

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed? If not, then don’t
include 6 million more. You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews
died, much less 6 million more.
>
> Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being “pure military
> targets,” that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
> typically dishonest distortion by Mr. Belling.

The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.

Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> were “legitimate military target[s].”

This was not the case. You ought to read the comments of British
Air Marshall “Bomber Harris” before you write things which will inevitably
be corrected.
>
> In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining “German morale, plus
> assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> and fouling it with refugees.” (Ibid.)

Oh-so the way to “defoul the refugees” was to burn them alive? Is that it?
Is this what you are offering us? Undermine “German morale”? By burning
alive 135,000 men, women and children? How quaint…..
>
> In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.

And rightfully so. If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
Don’t you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the allies? No,
you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would compromise your
“special” status for the Jewish victims. All victims would then be equal and equally
deserving of our compassion and sympathy, and, of course, that is something
you simply can not afford.

It is not a
> new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To establish an (ersatz)
> moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the
> war against Germany.

And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit
what you know to be a true fact.

Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> deniers’ Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.

On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
tales.
>
> Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion.

There is no hate on my part. I am not affiliated with any so-called
hate group and I number people of all creeds and races among my
most intimate friends and acquaintances. You are not speaking to
another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
as they are not biased.
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
Article: 81273 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:09:09 GMT
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Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
Chuck Ferree writes:

rbl, why must everyone else do your work for you? You lazy bastid!!!

[email protected] wrote:

Why don’t you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
alive at Dresden by the allies,

Why don’t you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?

Apparently I will have to do so, since Nizkor seems too cowardly or
dishonest to do so. Look for it sometime in January. I have a lot of
scanning to do, and I have been compiling photos to rival anything old
Danny Keren can post.

You’re
> so hep on tit for tat bull. One dead Jew starved to death, worked to
> death, gassed to death, singled out because they were Jews, murdered
> by design,

In case you didn’t know, and we all know that you don’t care, German
civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
mostly by Jews in Poland hell bent on revenge and with the complicity and
blessings of your old Uncle-not Sam-but Papa Joe Stalin. It is true that
they weren’t gassed to death, but that would have been too merciful. For
those interested enough to read the details, I recommend the book, “An
Eye for an Eye”, by Jewish author John Sack, who vainly searches for
meaning in all the madness.

doesn’t equal German civilians caught in a legitiment
> bombing raid.

Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
British Air Marshall Harris, known as “Bomber Harris”. You ought to
brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.

Nobody decided to burn 37,0000 or so Germans to death at
> Dresden.

You have your figures wrong. The real figure is 137,000 and possibly
higher, which means more dead than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
The figures were deliberately reduced to 10 percent of the actual losses
incurred as the allies sought to cover up their own crime of mass murder
in a defenseless open city. Shame on you !

The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass
> shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best
> shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.

Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two
entirely different things.
>
> Chuck

> under heat so intense that the
> > corpses actually melted together?
>
> That’s what happened to Jews who were burned alive by the Germans.
>
> BTW, perhaps you will
> > advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
> > Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
> > initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.

> Look it up, dummy. We don’t work for you. You wanna know, do your own
> research.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:19 PST 1996
Article: 81292 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgotten Genocide History?
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:07:33 GMT
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> [email protected] writes:
> Forgotten Genocide History for 8 yr. old Children
>
> Instead of Black History Month, perhaps February should become
> Genocide History Month wherein all 8 yr. olds would study the
> Irish Potatoe Holocauste, The Manifest Destiny Holocaust, The
> Extermination of 60,000,000 Bison & Pronghorn Holocaust, The
> African Holocauste 200,000,000 Africans exterminated.
>
> A separate month should be set aside for the HOLOCAUST as there
> are actually three more historical incidents of Jewish extermination –
> albeit strangely forgotten.
>
> According to American Jewish Committee Historical Society;
>
> 1825 the first Jewish Holocaust – Dubnov
> 1880 2,500,000 Jews Exterminated – Dubnov
> 1910 A Campaign to exterminate 6,000,000 Jews
> & THE 1940 Holocaust 6,000,000 Jews exterminated
> (the WORST because of the Auschwitz Kadaver Factory capable of
> rendering 20-30,000 Jews an hour – for a total of 4,000,000)
>
> T.
> macZugaKausT cat3wog American-American Houston Texas
> http://home.aol.com/WASPnot (Page doesn`t exist) (WASP’s anti-WOG Immigration History)
> http://home.aol.com/SalaryPlan ((Page doesn`t exist) WASP’s anti-WOG glass/iron Ceiling)
> http://members.aol.com/HistoryNOT (Page doesn`t exist) (History WASPs want to Censor)
> http://members.aol.com/WaspWatch (Page doesn`t exist) (Texacos Shredde Documents)
> http://members.aol.com/UofHKausT (Page doesn`t exist) ( Big Six SPC Confidential Secrets)

Wouldn’t the first Jewish Holocaust begin with the Babylonian exile and
the disappearance of the lost ten tribes?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
Article: 81296 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:59 GMT
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Harry
> W. Mazal OBE)Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:57:18 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> :>
>
> [proof positve that Blackmore is a liar deleted]
>
> :>Mr. Blackmore is a liar. Get used to it.
>
> Thank you Mr. Mazal, but we were already used to it.

> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time

We?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:10:14 GMT
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[email protected] (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
Jean-Francois Beaulieu ([email protected]) wrote:

For about a week I’m saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
10 years.

Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,

This is amazing. Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
at the time!

A splendid example of “revisionist” double standards of evidence. Video
is not enough for these people. Video! A video interview with someone
is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!

And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
in 1996 I suppose?

How silly this can get – but the game of supposing and hypothetical
theories can be used also the other way round.

Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel
that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn’t like
to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
> he did speak only to regret this later because he didn’t like to be
> shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: – testimonies do not count.
>
> Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz
> Suchomel, dated let’s say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one.
> Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel’s certificate. M Beaulieu
> or another “Revisionist” will claim that such a document
> does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal.
>
> Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he’ll argue
> someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
> pains to provide it he’d ask for another forensic test by a “neutral”
> commission. (I think Anne Frank’s diary was tested independently by
> several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with
> the same result that it is authentic – little surprise. But the claims
> of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).
>
> So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
> for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann’s film, the
> guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
> certificate were really the same person. May be, he’ll argue, there
> had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
> such a person, who knows …
>
> Can be proceeded ad infinitum.
>
> u.roessler [email protected]

I am a revisionist and I will say only this: until we are provided with
conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant. People also
confessed to being witches and licking the devils behind. People can and
do confess to almost everything, up to being abducted by aliens.
Mr, Lanzmann’s film is a long and boring curiosity, filled with statements
by eyewitnesses who miraculously lived to tell about alleged crimes
which have never been proven by independent physical evidence.
If such were available the Soviets would have been the first to
produce it after their embarrassment over the mass murders at Katyn
. In a way, they still got their revenge without even having to prove
their accusations against the Germans at the end of the war. Take it
for what it is worth-little or next to nothing.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:21 PST 1996
Article: 81314 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:52:41 GMT
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [re: the claim that Franz Suchomel was portrayed by an actor which
> these wingnuts now seem to think is conclusively proved by Beaulieu’s
> idle speculations]
>
> >Whether he was an actor or not, it is clear that he was a liar in
> >any event.
>
> Could you expand on this? Like offer some evidence of your contention
> that Franz Suchomel was a liar? Was he tortured? Was he in fear of his
> life?

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/

Are you asking me? How would I know what his inducement was,
if any? All I know is that it appears everything he allegedly said
appears to be a lie or based upon a lie. Let’s see some forensic evidence
and then we can discuss the merits or demerits of his comments.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:22 PST 1996
Article: 81315 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:50:46 GMT
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> And the evidence that Mr. Beaulieu is alive is?
>
> > No one. I’m Matt Giwer.
> > and Al Baron.
>
> You can’t be Al Baron unless British jails have Internet access.

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

No doubt now you’ll be referring to him as “Big Al”.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81317 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel’s connfession of guilt and hope
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:47:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
“Now, at the end of this Trial I want to present equally frankly the
avowel and confession I have to make today.
“In the course of the trial my defense counsel submitted two fundemental
questions to me, the first one… was: ‘In case of a victory, would you
have refused to particpate in any part of the success?’ I answered: ‘No, I
should certaihnly have been proud of it.’

“The second question was: ‘How would you act if you were in the same
position again?’ My answer: ‘Then I should rather choose death than to let
myself be drawn into a net of such pernicious methods.’

“From these two answers the High Tribunal may see my viewpoint. I
believed, but I erred, and I was not in a position to prevent what ought
to have been prevented. That is my guilt.

“It is tragic to have realized that the best I had to give as a soldier,
obediance and loyalty, was exploiyed for purposes that could not be
recognoized at the time, and that I did not see that there is a limit even
for a soldier’s performance of his duty. That is my fate.

“From the clear recognition of the causes, the pernicious methods, and the
terrible consequences of this war, may there arise the hope for a new
future in the community of nations for the German people.
>
> -Generalfeldmarchall Wilhelm Keitel, Chef OKW; August 15, 1946, Nuremburg.
> (Sentenced to death by the International Military Tribunal and hanged,
> 1946.)
>
> (Taylor, _The Anatomy of the Nuremeburg Trials_, pp.537-538.)

> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
Sad and pathetic words from a man condemned to death without
sufficient cause and still hopeful of a reprieve. Better luck next
time.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81326 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:11:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> On 21 Nov 1996 17:48:05 GMT, [email protected] (william c
> anderson) wrote:
>
> >Chris Carpenter ([email protected]) wrote:
> >: “Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
> >: Christians and get control of their gold. We have already killed 100
> >: million of them, and the end is not yet.”
> >:
> >: (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
> >
> >Gee–what is it that makes me think you made this up, Chris? Why
> >don’t you just go whole hog. Here–I’ll show you how:
> Why would I make that up?
>
> >”We Jews are evil, I tell you! Evil, evil, evil! We will not stop
> > until the blood of the last Christian Baby is drained and mixed in
> > our matzoh batter, and the last ounce of Christian gold is ours.
> > BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!”
> >(The Head of All the Jews in the World, 1996)
> Why would_ you_ make this up?
>
> >There…isn’t that more convincing?
> >Bill
> No. Mine is a quote from the Chief Rabbi of France.
> Yours, in fact, is made up.
> Your point is understood but not well taken here. Unless you can show
> me that Rabbi Reichorn would never say something so arrogant, I’ll
> stick with his quote.
> Chris_______________________________________________
Do you really expect him to show anything more than the face of a
deranged clown?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:24 PST 1996
Article: 81332 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:56:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Remember, I own approximately
> >40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
> >as is their usual way.
>
> Uh huh. Sure you do. And you’re really a thirteen year old girl, too.

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Is that a proposal? Shame on you!

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:25 PST 1996
Article: 81345 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:58:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

Remember, I own approximately
40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
as is their usual way.

Uh huh. Sure you do. And you’re really a thirteen year old girl, too.

John Morris <[email protected]>
at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>

The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/

By the way, if you’ll believe the Holocaust, you’ll believe anything.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81357 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:45:43 GMT
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[email protected] wrote:

What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
enough?

Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

Well, for a start, some three million “Aryan” German civilians weren’t
deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended. There, they were worked,
beaten, starved, and tortured to death. Men, women, and children. And most of
these camps were run by Jews every bit as murderous as you claim Josef Mengele
to have been, and some of them are currently hiding out in Israel today, wanted
by the legal authorities in Poland…Some are living in the USA. Each and every one
a mass murderer, installed in their bloody positions and exalted by Old Papa Joe
Stalin. Here is the name of one of the murderers currently wanted for questioning
in Poland: Shlomo Morel. Here is a quote from Shlomo, who was in charge of
one of the extermination camps in Poland:

“What the Germans couldn’t do in five years at Auschwitz, I’ve done in 5
months at Schwientochlowitz.” (An Eye for an Eye, page 107, John Sack)

Germans were made to wear swastikas on their backs and arms, as the Jews
were once compelled to wear the star of David. Though the murdered Germans
weren’t gassed, gassing would have be merciful compared to the torments and
tortures they were forced to endure until death granted them the boon of release.

What happened to the Germans was as I seem
to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you’re words
don’t make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand: The Nazis claimed it was
the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were
“getting their asses kicked” in the Soviet Union. Capisce?

Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it.

Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
That is simply _you’re_ being disingenous and putting words into his
mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand.

No. Beg to disagree. Mr. Feree, as we have all so often been told, says that the
Holocaust happened, because he saw it happen. he was here, he was there, he
was everywhere, and whatever SHAEF told him was good enough for him, and now
it ought to be good enough for us too. He saw Maidanek, he saw Auschwitz, he saw belsen,
he saw Buchenwald, he saw the human skin tattoos, which are now know to have
been goatskin, he saw the “Bitch of Buchenwald”, but didn’t realize that the SS
juduicial authorities had tried and executed her husband for crimes, murder among
them. He saw the “gas chambers”, but never did have it explained to him how exactly
they worked. He never saw any demonstrations. He only believed with the simple faith
of a choirboy.

Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies.
It seems we have two infallible people in this world: The Pope and the
Anti-Pope.

Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems.
(Also a not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I had good teachers: Nizkor devotees. To the browser, stick around a
while and see how this works.

BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities
in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?

Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
them?

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.

Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden.

Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
amusing! Sherry’s _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.)

Listen, Mr. Marky Mark: The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned for the
figures released by the German authorities at the time of the bombing. The figure was
stated publicly on National News Services at least twice over the past 5 years. Believe
it if you want, or don’t if you don’t want. It is all the same to me. BTW, I already referred
you to the comments made by the Senior British Officer in charge of planning the whole
raid. If you choose to believ your source, go ahead. For the sake of the browsers,
however, the real figure was closer to 135,000, perhaps higher. There never was an
air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole history of modern warfare.

The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest
estimates as well as estimates at the time.

_Who’s_ “latest” estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum’s,
that’s for sure! As for “estimates at the time,” the Nazis origionally
claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
Communists claimed 350,000.

Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda.

You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.

http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001 Broken link

But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths. These
are men, women and children….grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
arms, all fleeing for sanctuary…..You have your images confused.

I’m afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis.

The “citizens” were civilians. Your images are confused.

According to _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):

“…the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy
(Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
(Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)”

I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly _ignorant_ of
history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality?

And who classifies babes in arms as the “axis”-you?

In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don’t you tell us more about Poland…

[Mr. Belling’s boorish Nazi apologia snipped]

Censoring the truth again, Mark? People can look it up in the
previous post.
<yawn>

More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn’t even have the class to
declare war on Poland first.

Oh, really, Mr. Van, spare us your aged limburger cheese like rehash of allied
propaganda. We have all heard it and we are all bored with it. Tell it to your
grandchildren around a campfire.

the Anglo-American bombing
against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives.

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?

Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I’m not!

If not, then don’t include 6 million more.
>
> Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
> just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
> is only about Jews?

> > You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million
> > more.
>
> Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
snip
If _you_ claim
> that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
> prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
> of _proof_….)

No, YOU do. Where is it?
>
> > > Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being “pure military
> > > targets,” that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
> > > typically dishonest distortion by Mr. Belling.
> >
> > The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.
>
> Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, “legitimate military target”
> is by no means the equivalent to “pure military targets.” Nor, militarily
> speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
> be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
> has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
> _purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
> field.

Yawn. fart.
>
> > > Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> > > seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> > > were “legitimate military target[s].”
> >
> > This was not the case….
>
> Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
> to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
> industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
> indeed the case. Amuse me.

You have amused all of us enough for one afternoon, I think. Peddle your
jokes at the comedy store.
>
> > You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall “Bomber Harris”
> > before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.
>
> I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
> comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: “…Harris, who at least had the
> virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
> his memoirs, when he referred to the ‘destruction of factories’ as only ‘a
> bonus.’ (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.)
>
> I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
> strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
> you’re a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce.

Of course this is the only argument you can offer.

Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
> merciless.

Like you. Then don’t whine and complain if the nazis adopted a policy where masses
of Jews were forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their brothers and sisters
participation in the partisan war against Germany. What is good for the goose
is good for the gander. Thank you for legitimatizing Germany’s roundup of the
Jews.
>
> > > In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> > > (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> > > Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining “German morale, plus
> > > assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> > > and fouling it with refugees.” (Ibid.)
> >
> > Oh-so the way to “defoul the refugees” was to burn them alive?
>
> “Defoul the refugees,” Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
> their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
> would be frowned on by the SPCA….

The meaning was quite clear, Mark.
>
> > Is that it? Is this what you are offering us? Undermine “German morale”?
> > By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children? How quaint…..
>
> No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
> time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
> “smart” bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
> thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to “dehouse” the inhabitants and
> “pin point” bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
> a quarter mile of the target.

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
> lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
> “Lebensraum.”

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> > > In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> > > since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> > > been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> > > (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
> >
> > And rightfully so.
>
> Ah, I’m glad to see that you’ve finally admitted that your are a Nazi
> apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one’s problem is the first step
> towrds recovery, I’m told.

Apparently you will never be cured.
>
> > If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
>
> And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
> They _did_ make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
> that it is. You’re proof of that.

And you are proof of the tota lirrationality of the so-called Holocaust story.
>
> > Don’t you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the
> > allies?
>
> What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The “crime” of destroying Nazism?

The blind can never see.
>
> > No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
> compromise your “special” status for the Jewish victims.
>
> What “special status” is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
> murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a “status” Jews share with far more
> Poles and Russians.

Really?
>
> > All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and
> > sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.
>
> Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
> insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly…

Who ever asked you to kow tow? It is I who refuse to kowtow to your
vapid list of lies and distortions..
>
> > > It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To
> > > establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the
> > > Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
> >
> > And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
>
> Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag…, er,
> demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
> suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
> pratfall, it won’t hurt so bad….

I have never been hurt from the contents of your comments, Mark. You only
hurt yourself….it must be true….you always hurt the one you love……
>
> > Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit
> > what you know to be a true fact.
>
> I’m now a “moral coward” This from a person who is so craven he hides
> behind a handle? (Pretending he’s a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
> And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
> Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?

You know as much about me as you know about the Holocaust-zilch.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> <wiping tears from eyes>

Keep wiping.
>
> You’re such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!

A am pleased to see you are so amused, Mr. V. Pleased indeed.
>
> > > Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> > > deniers’ Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> > > diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
> >
> > On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
> > tales.
>
> Deluded too….
>
> > > Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> > > hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion.
> >
> > There is no hate on my part.
>
> Suuuure there’s not. Uh huh. And bears don’t shit in the woods.

I wouldn’t know. I don’t hang around where bears shit.
>
> > I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group…
>
> Really? Prove it.
>
> > …and I number people of all creeds and races among my
> > most intimate friends and acquaintances.
>
> Really? Prove it.

Not today, Mark, not today.
>
> > You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>
> No, probably not. You’re too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
> _their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane.

And you are a judge of insanity? I take great satisfaction in knowing how deeply
my arguments hurt your cause. Now it is I who is laughing……and laughing…..
>
> > > For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> > > Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
> >
> > Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
> > as they are not biased.
>
> Suuuure they’re not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too.
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link
This was really fun, Mark. Just like the old days. We must do this again some-
time soon!

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81364 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: H.G. Wells on Jewish ancestry
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:14:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
> > “It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew’s ancestors
> >’never’ lived in Palestine ‘at all,’ which witnesses the power of
> >historical assertion over fact.”
>
> > (H. G. Wells, The Outline of History).
>
> >More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/ (Page doesn`t exist)
>
> Oh yeah, right, the site with the complete guide to Jewish Ritual
> Murder. I must wonder, though, what is quoted from Wells: the whole
> paragraph, or simply the words “never” and “at all”? If the former,
> why are those words in their own quotation marks? If the former, why
> can’t you supply the entire quote in Wells’s words? Not, or course,
> that any of this has relevance to this conference (I assume you’re
> trying to rehash the old Khazar khrap), but it is interesting how
> you disseminate dubious “quotes” without precise sources (what chapter
> of THE OUTLINE OF HISTORY, for instance?), as well as known forgeries
> such as the Gus Hall bit. (No, I’m not a fan of Hall. He’s a fool, a
> thug and a traitor, lacking the brains and scholarship of some of his
> fellow traitors like Aptheker. But there is no evidence that he ever
> said what you quoted him as saying.)

Miss Flower, why don’t you do a little research before you stick
your nose into a subject?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:27 PST 1996
Article: 81370 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Elie Wiesel
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:43:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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References: <[email protected]>
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> Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
> Chuck Ferree wrote:
>
> Yeah sure!!! Who you gonna believe: Raven, the proven natsie liar, the
> pro-A. Hitler person, the denier of deniers, the guy what asks for
> money everytime he posts? Or Elie Wiesel, a Jewish victim of the Nazi
> perpetrated Holocaust and an eyewitness to what really happened during
> the Nazi years of terror. Eyewitness testimony is far better than
> speculation and bluffing with baloney.

> Greg Raven wrote:
> >
> > A Prominent False Witness: Elie Wiesel
> >
> > By Robert Faurisson

> This guy lies all the time. He is just another turkey who hates the
> Jewish people.
>
> Chuck

> > ELIE WIESEL won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a
> > witness to the Jewish “Holocaust,”
>
> ELIE WIESEL was a witness to the Holocaust.
>
> Where was Faurisson and Raven?

Are you implying Elie Wiesel never solicits for money?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:28 PST 1996
Article: 81371 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a different perspective on Streicher.
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:39:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 113
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Nizkor’s handler) writes:
Not that only one heavily researched and footnoted issue using
reputable sources was introduced in evidence against him. It appears
that his crime was researching the article and presenting the results.
What a crime, a hate crime, the exercise of free inquiry and freedom
of the press.

What an evil person to have found all of the material footnoted in
his evil article.

The May, 1934 issue of Der Sturmer was
entered into evidence as the “worst act of
anti-Semitism” committed by Streicher. This
entire issue was a feature of the centuries-old
accusation that secret sects of extremist
orthodox Jews would crucify a Christian child
during Passover, using the blood in a ritual
ceremony. This accusation is known among
Jews as “Blood Libel.”

Considering the number of weird and murderous
cults afflicting the United States since World War
II, Streicher’s charges have great credibility.

Not Allowed To Answer Inquisitors: Streicher
thoroughly researched this subject, citing many
sources with footnotes. His defense attorney
asked him to reply to the prosection’s charge that
he had no documentary proof that such crimes
were once practiced by certain Jews. Streicher
answered:

“The sources were given in that issue.
There was reference made to a book
written in Greek by a former Rabbi
who had been converted to
Christianity. There was reference to a
publication of a high clergyman of
Milan. Not even did Jews raise
objections to that book.

Ritual murder is referred to in court
files which are located in Rome. There
are pictures in it which show that in 23
cases, the Church itself has dealt with
the question. The Church (Catholic)
has canonized 23 non-Jews killed by
ritual murder.

Pictures of sculptures, that is, of stone
monuments were shown as
illustrations. Everywhere (in Der
Sturmer) the source was pointed
> out…But in this connection I should like
> to say, we never wanted to assert that
> all Jewry was ready now to commit
> ritual murders. But it is a fact that
> within Jewry there exists a sect which
> engaged in these murders. I have
> asked my council to submit to the
> Court a file from Pisek in
> Czechoslovakia, very recent
> proceedings. A court of appeal has
> confirmed a case of ritual murder.
> Thus, in conclusion I must say…”
>
> At this point Streicher’s testimony is cut off by
> Judge Jackson, who stated,
>
> “I object to this statement…He ought to
> be returned to his cell and any further
> statements that he wishes to make
> transmitted through his counsel to this
> court; he should be held in contempt of
> court.”
>
> Held in contempt for pointing out that his article was well
> researched and supported by external sources. What a “contemptable
> thing to do.
> =====
> http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html The Dark Web (Page doesn`t exist)
> Pages of Zionism
> http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html (Page doesn`t exist) Zundelsite
> http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ (Page doesn`t exist) to the light
> http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ (Page doesn`t exist) Student Revisionist Resource Site
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ (Page doesn`t exist) Revisionist Productions
> http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) Reflections upon the Holocaust
> http://flashback.se/~rislam/ (Page doesn`t exist) Radio Islam
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Leuchter Report
> http://www.hoffman-info.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) The Hoffman Report
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ (Page doesn`t exist) Greg Raven’s Website
> http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html (Page doesn`t exist) David Irving
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith)
> http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ (Page doesn`t exist) Be Wise as Serpents
> http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) L’Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
> d’Holocauste (also in English)
> http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ (Page doesn`t exist) Arthur R. Butz
> http://www.air-photo.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
> http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html (Page doesn`t exist) Adelaide Institute
>
>>>>To Nizkor’s “handler”:
Are you denying that Jews were never accused or convicted of
alleged Ritual Murder? It would seem that Streicher believed that
these accusations were true. From the earliest oprigins of the Hebrews
to Messina, New York in our own century, Jews have been accused of this crime.
Many authors of importance have written about it, such as H. Stract, Joshua
Trachtenberg, and Sir Richard Burton. Strack and Trachtenberg, both
Jewish, deny the charges, and Streicher and Burton disagree. You also
failed to note that this particular issue of the Stuermer was BANNED in Germany
on order of Adolf Hitler himself. Are you now suggesting that this article
justified the imposition of the death penalty on Julius Streicher?
Better luck next time.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:29 PST 1996
Article: 81390 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:47:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 432
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[email protected] wrote:

What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
enough?

Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

Well, for a start, some three million “Aryan” German civilians weren’t
deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended. There, they were worked,
beaten, starved, and tortured to death. Men, women, and children. And most of
these camps were run by Jews every bit as murderous as you claim Josef Mengele
to have been, and some of them are currently hiding out in Israel today, wanted
by the legal authorities in Poland…Some are living in the USA. Each and every one
a mass murderer, installed in their bloody positions and exalted by Old Papa Joe
Stalin. Here is the name of one of the murderers currently wanted for questioning
in Poland: Shlomo Morel. Here is a quote from Shlomo, who was in charge of
one of the extermination camps in Poland:

“What the Germans couldn’t do in five years at Auschwitz, I’ve done in 5
months at Schwientochlowitz.” (An Eye for an Eye, page 107, John Sack)

Germans were made to wear swastikas on their backs and arms, as the Jews
were once compelled to wear the star of David. Though the murdered Germans
weren’t gassed, gassing would have be merciful compared to the torments and
tortures they were forced to endure until death granted them the boon of release.

What happened to the Germans was as I seem
to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you’re words
don’t make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand: The Nazis claimed it was
the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were
“getting their asses kicked” in the Soviet Union. Capisce?

Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it.

Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
That is simply _you’re_ being disingenous and putting words into his
mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand.

No. Beg to disagree. Mr. Feree, as we have all so often been told, says that the
Holocaust happened, because he saw it happen. he was here, he was there, he
was everywhere, and whatever SHAEF told him was good enough for him, and now
it ought to be good enough for us too. He saw Maidanek, he saw Auschwitz, he saw belsen,
he saw Buchenwald, he saw the human skin tattoos, which are now know to have
been goatskin, he saw the “Bitch of Buchenwald”, but didn’t realize that the SS
juduicial authorities had tried and executed her husband for crimes, murder among
them. He saw the “gas chambers”, but never did have it explained to him how exactly
they worked. He never saw any demonstrations. He only believed with the simple faith
of a choirboy.

Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies.
It seems we have two infallible people in this world: The Pope and the
Anti-Pope.

Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems.
(Also a not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I had good teachers: Nizkor devotees. To the browser, stick around a
while and see how this works.

BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities
in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?

Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
them?

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.

Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden.

Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
amusing! Sherry’s _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.)

Listen, Mr. Marky Mark: The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned for the
figures released by the German authorities at the time of the bombing. The figure was
stated publicly on National News Services at least twice over the past 5 years. Believe
it if you want, or don’t if you don’t want. It is all the same to me. BTW, I already referred
you to the comments made by the Senior British Officer in charge of planning the whole
raid. If you choose to believ your source, go ahead. For the sake of the browsers,
however, the real figure was closer to 135,000, perhaps higher. There never was an
air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole history of modern warfare.

The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest
estimates as well as estimates at the time.

_Who’s_ “latest” estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum’s,
that’s for sure! As for “estimates at the time,” the Nazis origionally
claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
Communists claimed 350,000.

Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda.

You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.

http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001 Broken link

But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths. These
are men, women and children….grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
arms, all fleeing for sanctuary…..You have your images confused.

I’m afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis.

The “citizens” were civilians. Your images are confused.

According to _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):

“…the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy
(Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
(Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)”

I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly _ignorant_ of
history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality?

And who classifies babes in arms as the “axis”-you?

In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don’t you tell us more about Poland…

[Mr. Belling’s boorish Nazi apologia snipped]

Censoring the truth again, Mark? People can look it up in the
previous post.
<yawn>

More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn’t even have the class to
declare war on Poland first.

Oh, really, Mr. Van, spare us your aged limburger cheese like rehash of allied
propaganda. We have all heard it and we are all bored with it. Tell it to your
grandchildren around a campfire.

the Anglo-American bombing
against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives.

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?

Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I’m not!

If not, then don’t include 6 million more.

Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
is only about Jews?

You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million
more.

Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
snip
If _you_ claim
that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
of _proof_….)

No, YOU do. Where is it?

Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being “pure military
targets,” that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
typically dishonest distortion by Mr. Belling.

The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.

Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, “legitimate military target”
is by no means the equivalent to “pure military targets.” Nor, militarily
speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
_purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
field.

Yawn. fart.
>
> > > Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> > > seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> > > were “legitimate military target[s].”
> >
> > This was not the case….
>
> Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
> to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
> industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
> indeed the case. Amuse me.

You have amused all of us enough for one afternoon, I think. Peddle your
jokes at the comedy store.
>
> > You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall “Bomber Harris”
> > before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.
>
> I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
> comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: “…Harris, who at least had the
> virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
> his memoirs, when he referred to the ‘destruction of factories’ as only ‘a
> bonus.’ (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.)
>
> I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
> strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
> you’re a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce.

Of course this is the only argument you can offer.

Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
> merciless.

Like you. Then don’t whine and complain if the nazis adopted a policy where masses
of Jews were forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their brothers and sisters
participation in the partisan war against Germany. What is good for the goose
is good for the gander. Thank you for legitimatizing Germany’s roundup of the
Jews.
>
> > > In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> > > (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> > > Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining “German morale, plus
> > > assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> > > and fouling it with refugees.” (Ibid.)
> >
> > Oh-so the way to “defoul the refugees” was to burn them alive?
>
> “Defoul the refugees,” Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
> their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
> would be frowned on by the SPCA….

The meaning was quite clear, Mark.
>
> > Is that it? Is this what you are offering us? Undermine “German morale”?
> > By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children? How quaint…..
>
> No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
> time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
> “smart” bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
> thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to “dehouse” the inhabitants and
> “pin point” bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
> a quarter mile of the target.

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
> lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
> “Lebensraum.”

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> > > In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> > > since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> > > been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> > > (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
> >
> > And rightfully so.
>
> Ah, I’m glad to see that you’ve finally admitted that your are a Nazi
> apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one’s problem is the first step
> towrds recovery, I’m told.

Apparently you will never be cured.
>
> > If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
>
> And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
> They _did_ make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
> that it is. You’re proof of that.

And you are proof of the tota lirrationality of the so-called Holocaust story.
>
> > Don’t you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the
> > allies?
>
> What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The “crime” of destroying Nazism?

The blind can never see.
>
> > No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
> compromise your “special” status for the Jewish victims.
>
> What “special status” is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
> murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a “status” Jews share with far more
> Poles and Russians.

Really?
>
> > All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and
> > sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.
>
> Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
> insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly…

Who ever asked you to kow tow? It is I who refuse to kowtow to your
vapid list of lies and distortions..
>
> > > It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To
> > > establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the
> > > Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
> >
> > And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
>
> Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag…, er,
> demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
> suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
> pratfall, it won’t hurt so bad….

I have never been hurt from the contents of your comments, Mark. You only
hurt yourself….it must be true….you always hurt the one you love……
>
> > Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit
> > what you know to be a true fact.
>
> I’m now a “moral coward” This from a person who is so craven he hides
> behind a handle? (Pretending he’s a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
> And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
> Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?

You know as much about me as you know about the Holocaust-zilch.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> <wiping tears from eyes>

Keep wiping.
>
> You’re such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!

A am pleased to see you are so amused, Mr. V. Pleased indeed.
>
> > > Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> > > deniers’ Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> > > diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
> >
> > On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
> > tales.
>
> Deluded too….
>
> > > Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> > > hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion.
> >
> > There is no hate on my part.
>
> Suuuure there’s not. Uh huh. And bears don’t shit in the woods.

I wouldn’t know. I don’t hang around where bears shit.
>
> > I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group…
>
> Really? Prove it.
>
> > …and I number people of all creeds and races among my
> > most intimate friends and acquaintances.
>
> Really? Prove it.

Not today, Mark, not today.
>
> > You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>
> No, probably not. You’re too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
> _their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane.

And you are a judge of insanity? I take great satisfaction in knowing how deeply
my arguments hurt your cause. Now it is I who is laughing……and laughing…..
>
> > > For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> > > Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
> >
> > Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
> > as they are not biased.
>
> Suuuure they’re not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too.
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link

This was really fun, Mark. Just like the old days. We must do this again some-
time soon!

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:30 PST 1996
Article: 81450 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:12:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad17-067.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images Broken link
>
> Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:
>
> The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.

> -Danny Keren.

Why don’t you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
alive at Dresden by the allies, under heat so intense that the
corpses actually melted together? BTW, perhaps you will
advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:30 PST 1996
Article: 81478 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt’s Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:09:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad17-067.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> (For a photograph of the results of Hirt’s “anthropological
> experiments”, see the web page
>
> http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images/MedExp03.jpg)Broken link
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images/Hirt02.jpg Broken link
>
> Letter from SS-doctor August Hirt to the “Ahnenerbe” Institute,
> July 14 1943
> [Presacc, J.C, The Struthof Album, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1985,
> Page 11]
> ——————————————————————–
> I’m aware of the SD letter, but I must share that, according to a
> memo from the Camp commandant, because of a difficulty, the material
> for gassing is not present. I ask you that the appropriate material
> be made available, else the matter can not be carried out.
>
> Furthermore, I ask for a supply slip for 150 pcs of x-ray film,
> format 24×30. I can probably get the film from the hospital
> administration here.
>
> <end quote>

> -Danny Keren.

Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above, I will only
direct the reader to note that Hirt is another one of those mysterious
“suicides” or “presumed missing”. Probably ushered out of Europe
by the “Vatican Connection” no doubt! Isn’t it curious how all the
most damaging documents are signed by people alleged to be suicides
or MIA’s? How coincidental.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:31 PST 1996
Article: 81479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Nazis Punished For Killing Jews’? II
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:39:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd51-023.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
awarded medals for it!

Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of
concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14
November 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution – G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 99]
——————————————————————–
The Commandant’s office has submitted to date two lists recommending
the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
> listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
> requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
> under “reasons and comments of immediate superior” there should be
> specified “execution, i.e., special action” or whether a general,
> routine reason should be given.
>
> <end quote>

> -Danny Keren.

Now, my only questions are:

1. What is the original source for this document?

2. What “executions” had these men allegedly
participated in?

Let’s see if Mr. Keren answers these two questions.

Also, it is curious to note that executioners the world
over are paid for their services, as well as noting that
allied fliers were highly decorated for killing hundreds
of thousands of unarmed civilians with fire bombs.
Also, as another example, the murderer of Leon Trotsky
was later decorated with the highest decoration of the
Soviet Union for planting an ice pick in Mr. Trotsky’s
brain.
I fail to appreciated Keren’s point, if there is one.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:32 PST 1996
Article: 81481 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:48:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.100.19
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
1) If you will demand to see 6 million corpses as a proof
that the Holocaust took place, you should also demand
to see 10 million or so corpses as proof of Stalin’s
atrocities, and 100,000 corpses or so as proof that
Dresden was bombed, etc.

This is no answer. We are waiting for YOUR proof. Your figures
are much greater and we also have the exact locations where
you claim these crimes occurred.
>
> This should be clear even to a senile drunkard such as
> yourself, hopefully. You cannot apply a double standard.

Then why do YOU?
>
> It should also be clear to you that you will not be able
> to find, perhaps, one single corpse for which it can be
> proved that it is the corpse of someone killed in the
> aerial attack on Dresden. If you know of such a corpse,
> please tell us where it can be found.

Show us one mass grave.
>
> Even a senile drunkard like you should therefore understand
> that your “argument” extends to “prove” that Dresden was
> never bombed.
>
> 2) Huge numbers of corpses and human remains were actually
> found, in some of the camps (Belsen, Treblinka, Maidanek).

Yes, commesurate with the epidemics during which they died.

> You’re a stupid, senile Nazi drunkard, admirer of Nazis who
> killed American POW’s in cold blood.

Oh-since when are you so concerned about American POW’s?
Thousands of Germans were killed in cold blood as well. Why don’t
you look up those 90,000 German soldiers taken prisoner at Stalingrad
and who never returned home. I am sure their families would love to
see them again.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:33 PST 1996
Article: 81485 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:46:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
[email protected] writes:

# Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
# whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
# continuous insults.

No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.

First, I am not “whining and crying”. I brought up Giwer’s
death threats against me, since he made them only
because my opinion on a certain historical event is
different from his.

This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
> “revisionists”, claims to support freedom of speech…
>
> # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
> # ready to strike,
>
> You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
> He, at least, had the excuse: “I was brought up in a
> society which made me like this”. You don’t have such an
> excuse.

> -Danny Keren.
>>>>
And what is your excuse, Danny? Would that comment about
the SS refer to Heydrich as well? Do you regard their upbringing
as a factor “in mitigation”? And are you also implying that every
person in the SS was ill-trained in some way? What a facile
interpretation which smacks of an inherent naivete! As far as
your feud with Giwer goes, you have insulted him more than any other
person who disagrees with your ideas on alt revisionism. He, also,
cannot be blamed if he reacts to your constant and unprovoked
ji0bes 0and insults with righteous anger and indignation. And I see
that you are right back to callling me “Nazi-boy” again…..How to
win friends and influence people-NOT. And for what reason?-
Simply because people disagree with you that 6 million Jews were
murdered during the 2nd WW. Your bias is showing….it is always
showing….and you are no better than Mr. Giwer, whom you constantly
revile. By the way, you also are a product of your society and upbringing,
which raised you on a pack of lies and faded old war legends.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:33 PST 1996
Article: 81493 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:48:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Daniel Keren)
> wrote:
>
> > [email protected] writes:
> >
> > # Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
> > # whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
> > # continuous insults.
> >
> > No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.
> >
> > First, I am not “whining and crying”. I brought up Giwer’s
> > death threats against me, since he made them only
> > because my opinion on a certain historical event is
> > different from his.
> >
> > This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
> > “revisionists”, claims to support freedom of speech…
> >
> > # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
> > # ready to strike,
> >
> > You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
> > He, at least, had the excuse: “I was brought up in a
> > society which made me like this”. You don’t have such an
> > excuse.
>
> Perhaps Mr. Belling can plead that he is mentally incompetant? It’s a
> compelling argument in many respects….

That’s “incompetent” Mark. And if that is your excuse, I guess I can
resort to it as well.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:34 PST 1996
Article: 81521 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Could this be true?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:13:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd40-223.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
> Carpenter) wrote:
>
> > “Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry
> > for a Zionist State. Everything was done to create a state of Israel
> > and that was only possible through a world war. Wall Street and
> > Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are
> > also to blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988.”
> >
> > (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star, March 31, 1988).

> “Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish
> financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> the nations into a world war, the result will be…the annhilation of
> the Jewish race throughout Europe.”
>
> – Adolph Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag on January 30, 1939.
>
> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
Mr. Blackmore, you will soon be eating crow pie.
-Mark van Alstine
(When asked for copies of the forensic tests allegedly conducted
by or on behalf of Dr. Charles Larson)

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:35 PST 1996
Article: 81523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Umfallen” and deliberate mistranslation
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:46:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Kurt
> Stele) wrote:
>
> [Nothing of importance]
>
> > At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> > charged that the Germans invented” a device to instantaneously
> > “vaporize” 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz “in such a way that there was no
> > trace left of them.” IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> > 1946). No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.
>
> And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
> The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
> ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at:

Are you denying that Jackson said this?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:36 PST 1996
Article: 81524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:53:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # Let’s see 80,000 civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at
> # Nagasaki,130,000 at Dresden-
>
> By your own standards, you have to show us the corpses
> of the alleged 130,000 Dresden victims.
>
> Fair is fair. You ask for this type of evidence for Nazi
> crimes. You should, then, present it for crimes you
> accuse the Allies of.
>
> Can you show us the remains of these alleged 130,000
> corpses?

> -Danny Keren.
>
Sure. When do we leave for Germany?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:36 PST 1996
Article: 81525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
> On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > [email protected]et (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
> > On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during the first
world war.
> >
> > Is that so? Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
> >> positive about this. I believe that he cannot do this.

> Harry W. Mazal OBE
>
> Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Over 1000 Megs of data: https://nizkor.org
> Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
> Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction – permanently!)

Afraid your sources are wrong, old chap. If memory serves correctly, it
was the French who first utilized poison gas.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:37 PST 1996
Article: 81543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:55:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
-Mark Van Alstine

Well, I’m still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.

Still can’t find a public library, Mr. Belling? I’m not terribly
suprised….

“The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true.” -Telford
Taylor

Then why doesn’t he practice what he preaches?

He did. And that’s what evidently puts a twist in your knickers. He helped
get your Nazi heroes to swing at the end of a rope.

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link

Yes, please do visit. All are welcome. However, I prefer that my writings be
accessed through Deja News. They are not biased.

No, DejaNews is certainly not biased. You come off as the same Nazi clown
when your Nazi apologia and lies are read from DejaNews as when the are
read from Nizkor. (Small wonder since the posts are the same….)

No, Nizkor seems to do some highly selective editing.

Actually, I believe you are quoting from the wrong Taylor….

Nope.

Yup.
[Mr. Belling’s Nazi jingoism snipped]
>
> > …As far as a public library, the one I have at home is absolutley perfect
> > for my needs.
>
> You have a _public_ library at home? Amazing.

Darn. You outwitted me again!
>
> > Remember, I own approximately 40-65,000 books, which your buddies
> > exaggerated and distorted to 165,000, as is their usual way.
>
> Given your sustained ignorance, Mr. Belling, they are apparantly _comic_
> books!
>
> All 45 of them.

Chuckle chuckle

> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

For those interested in Mark’s insipid drivel, refer to his past and present
posts (Although I can’t imagine why anyone would want to)

PS
I wasn’t refering to Hitler. I was referring to Taylor and the last lines
of the paragraph.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:38 PST 1996
Article: 81566 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies…. Re: Questions [email protected]
([email protected]) refuses to answer…
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:42:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 150
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

[snip]

I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.

Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?

So your refusal to support your claim clearly demonstrates that you are a
liar, and a shall have no qualms about openly declaring you as one. You,
Joseph Bellinger, are a liar.

This from the Prince of Lies, Mr. Gandhi.

Since you cannot, you need to retract this statement, or be branded,
yet again, a liar.

Branded a liar by a liar?

Further, nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two
claims you made,
has had a shred of truth.

This coming from a confirmed liar without conscience, such as yourself,
is hardly credible.

Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.

So at least now you admit that you are a liar.

Your continual refusal to support your statements,
and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely
demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.

You simply are not content with my answers. You want to hear what you
wish to hear. I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi. If
you want
that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.

You have given no answers to be content with, except continual lies.

And if I told malicious untruths this would be acceptable to a person like
you as Gospel truth, because you feed off of lies. Lies and distortions
are your harvest-a harvest of hate.

By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another
lie,
or have you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about
the Auschwitz Museum ?

There was no blunder. They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
for decades, the majority being Jews. Funny what you consider to be a
blunder, Mr. Gandhi.

You did indeed lie about the Auschwitz Museum. You said 19 slabs existed
which uunequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. This was
wrong, and you werer told it was wrong. You said you had pictures. You were
asked to produce the inscription. You still maintained that 19 slabs
existed which unequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. You
were corrected again. You finally confessed that you lied, although you
attempted to weasel your way out of the lie.

Of course you are in a position to know aren’t you. Even if I did lie, which
I didn’t, which is the greater lie-

a. That the Auschwitz State Museum maintained a fake death figure for
5 decades of 4 million, whether Jew or non Jew?

b. That I “lied” and stated that there were 19 slabs? (In fact there are)

c. That I referred to the 4 million as dead Jews. (In reality, the overwhelming
majority of deaths were attributed to Jewish deaths simply by adding up the totals
given for non-Jewish deaths)

d. Your lies-which heap lies upon lies and helps to support the tottering
edifice of lies your holocaust story is based upon?

Tell me. Which of the above lies do you consider to be the greater, O Prince
of Lies?

Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the
questions,
choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
and they HAVE indeed been answered:

Will you decide on a name for me already? Will it be Belling, Blackmore, or Bellinger?
Or shall we add another? Shall I be a male, a female, a boy, a girl? Which shall
you choose this week?

snip

rblackmore:

Well, so be it. I will consider that admission to be the end of this
argument.

Gandhi:

It isn’t then end of the argument, since you have yet to answer the
question of why you made such a ludicrous and unjustified claim –
especially admidst your constant (and erroneous) whining with respect to
incontrovertible.) I won’t stop asking, so you might as well just answer
the question.

Well, I won’t stop asking for proof of the Holocaust either. So it looks as
if we have reached an impasse.
>
>
> > > With respect to the publisher’s of the magazine of which you speak,
> I had sent
> > > them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have,
> thus far,
> > > received no response.
> >
> > Gee, I wonder why? Could it be EMBARASSMENT? Now you see where all
> > your lies and distortions lead to……
>
> It may well be embarassment – If I was the publisher of a magazine about
> history, and I made a blunder which, with proper research should never have
> been made, I might well be embarassed. However, this doesn’t in ANY way
> establish your original inference – that the public is knowingly being
> mislead.

Of course it is knowingly being mislead. Where are they getting the false
figures from? Surely not out of thin air?

Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
> serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
> million. It further doesn’t support the revisionist belief that the
> Holocaust is a hoax.

Who is a “serious” historian? A historian who supports your view of the Holocaust
of course. Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the earth was
flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil. Your “serious” historians, such
as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who “believe in the gassing myth”,
also have disagreements of opinion. Choose whose opinion is correct, a, b, or c.
Invariably it will be the “historian” with the highest mortality rate. Thats the order
of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.

> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
Holocaust.-rb

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:38 PST 1996
Article: 81631 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies…. Re: Questions [email protected]
([email protected]) refuses to answer…
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:41:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 150
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

[snip]

I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.

Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?

So your refusal to support your claim clearly demonstrates that you are a
liar, and a shall have no qualms about openly declaring you as one. You,
Joseph Bellinger, are a liar.

This from the Prince of Lies, Mr. Gandhi.

Since you cannot, you need to retract this statement, or be branded,
yet again, a liar.

Branded a liar by a liar?

Further, nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two
claims you made,
has had a shred of truth.

This coming from a confirmed liar without conscience, such as yourself,
is hardly credible.

Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.

So at least now you admit that you are a liar.

Your continual refusal to support your statements,
and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely
demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.

You simply are not content with my answers. You want to hear what you
wish to hear. I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi. If
you want
that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.

You have given no answers to be content with, except continual lies.

And if I told malicious untruths this would be acceptable to a person like
you as Gospel truth, because you feed off of lies. Lies and distortions
are your harvest-a harvest of hate.

By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another
lie,
or have you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about
the Auschwitz Museum ?

There was no blunder. They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
for decades, the majority being Jews. Funny what you consider to be a
blunder, Mr. Gandhi.

You did indeed lie about the Auschwitz Museum. You said 19 slabs existed
which uunequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. This was
wrong, and you werer told it was wrong. You said you had pictures. You were
asked to produce the inscription. You still maintained that 19 slabs
existed which unequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. You
were corrected again. You finally confessed that you lied, although you
attempted to weasel your way out of the lie.

Of course you are in a position to know aren’t you. Even if I did lie, which
I didn’t, which is the greater lie-

a. That the Auschwitz State Museum maintained a fake death figure for
5 decades of 4 million, whether Jew or non Jew?

b. That I “lied” and stated that there were 19 slabs? (In fact there are)

c. That I referred to the 4 million as dead Jews. (In reality, the overwhelming
majority of deaths were attributed to Jewish deaths simply by adding up the totals
given for non-Jewish deaths)

d. Your lies-which heap lies upon lies and helps to support the tottering
edifice of lies your holocaust story is based upon?

Tell me. Which of the above lies do you consider to be the greater, O Prince
of Lies?

Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the
questions,
choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
and they HAVE indeed been answered:

Will you decide on a name for me already? Will it be Belling, Blackmore, or Bellinger?
Or shall we add another? Shall I be a male, a female, a boy, a girl? Which shall
you choose this week?

snip

rblackmore:

Well, so be it. I will consider that admission to be the end of this
argument.

Gandhi:

It isn’t then end of the argument, since you have yet to answer the
question of why you made such a ludicrous and unjustified claim –
especially admidst your constant (and erroneous) whining with respect to
incontrovertible.) I won’t stop asking, so you might as well just answer
the question.

Well, I won’t stop asking for proof of the Holocaust either. So it looks as
if we have reached an impasse.
>
>
> > > With respect to the publisher’s of the magazine of which you speak,
> I had sent
> > > them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have,
> thus far,
> > > received no response.
> >
> > Gee, I wonder why? Could it be EMBARASSMENT? Now you see where all
> > your lies and distortions lead to……
>
> It may well be embarassment – If I was the publisher of a magazine about
> history, and I made a blunder which, with proper research should never have
> been made, I might well be embarassed. However, this doesn’t in ANY way
> establish your original inference – that the public is knowingly being
> mislead.

Of course it is knowingly being mislead. Where are they getting the false
figures from? Surely not out of thin air?

Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
> serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
> million. It further doesn’t support the revisionist belief that the
> Holocaust is a hoax.

Who is a “serious” historian? A historian who supports your view of the Holocaust
of course. Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the earth was
flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil. Your “serious” historians, such
as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who “believe in the gassing myth”,
also have disagreements of opinion. Choose whose opinion is correct, a, b, or c.
Invariably it will be the “historian” with the highest mortality rate. Thats the order
of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.

> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
Holocaust.-rb

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:39 PST 1996
Article: 81691 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:40:23 GMT
Organization: Spuynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posteng-Host: 206.175.100.19
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstene) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
> Carpenter) wrote:
>
> > “We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look
> > forward, not to its ultimate union with other races, but to its
> > tueumph over them.”
> >
> > (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford
> > University, October, 1981)
>
> “Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish
> financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> the nations into a world war, the result will be…the annhilation of
> the Jewish race throughout Europe.”
>
> – Adolf Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag; January 30, 1939.
> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–

Well, that was a non sequitor if I ever saw one.-Groucho Marx

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:40 PST 1996
Article: 81785 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:19:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
> # [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>
> [Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
> mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]
>
> # And where may we find the alleged author of this
> # report today?
>
> I don’t know. He’s either dead, or very old. Heck, now
> you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.
>
> Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
> German authorities where these people are?

> -Danny Keren.

Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:40 PST 1996
Article: 81787 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:17:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
[email protected] (tom moran) writes:

Did anyone ask Mr. Harold Le Druillence to take them
to the scenes of the crimes? Did anyone care to dig up
these mass graves?

Evidently not.

The following photos are in

https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images Broken link

They are all scanned from “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.
>
> belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
> belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
> belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
> belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
> belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>
> The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
> that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/ Broken link
>
> Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz
> and Belsen).
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/ Broken link
>
> Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
> corpses in Belsen.
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/ Broken link
>
> Kramer.jpg: Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
> II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.

> -Danny Keren.

The usual distorted drivel from Danny. These photos at Belsen,
are supposed to prove that six million Jews were systematically
murdered by the nazis. They don’t. Note:

1. The SS women appear healthy because they were. They
were principally employed as administrative staff and had little
or nothing to do with the inmates. That they aren’t emaciated is
due to the fact that they were fortunate not to have contracted
any of the life threatening illnesses brought into the camp by
the inmates during the final weeks of the war.
It should be noted that in camp 2, where the original inmates in the
camp were housed, the people were in relatively good health, which can be
seen and verified by viewing films from the period. This proves that the illness
were carried into the camp by the tens of thousands who were transferred there
in the course of the last three months of the war.
Mr. Keren would love to
have photos of these same SS women in an emaciated condition adorning
his massive photo collection, pasted on his wall next to his playboy
photos.

2. Kramer was commander of the camp for only 3 MONTHS. His superior
misrepresented the camp to him before Kramer accepted the assignment.
His superior referred to the camp as a rest and rehabilitation camp. What
happened in reality is that seriously ill, dying, and highly contagious inmates
with life threatening diseases were shipped to the camp during the final
weeks of the war, which dramatically increased the death rate, and spread the
epidemics further. Many of the inmates also contributed to the filthy conditions
prevalent throughout the camp. They defecated and urinated wherever it
pleased them, and used the camp grounds as their own personal refuse dump.
Kramer is on record as having appealed for help from his superiors on many
occasions. His pleas were ignored. He was a victim of circumstances. Note
that it was Kramer who arranged for the surrender of the camp to the
British as he realized he was wholly incapable with dealing with the mess
his superiors had created. Thousands continued to die even after the
British assumed control over the camp and were given the best possible medical
treatment. Note also that the children in the camp had been isolated on orders
>from Kramer, thus they were found to be in good health by the British. There is
no telling how the child in the photo happened to die. Perhaps it was ill with
typhus when it arrived, and if placed with the healthy children, would have
spread the illness to them.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 07:35:06 PST 1996
Article: 81839 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:01:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:02:34 GMT, [email protected] (John
Morris) wrote:

In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

“World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of
the Jewish State in Palestine.”

(Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).

Joseph Burg is also frequently trotted out by deniers as a witness who
claimed there were no mass murders in Nazi camps. The fact that he was
never actually in a Nazi camp until after the war is conveniently
overlooked.

Is that what is called a self-hating Jew?

Don’t know. It’s not a category I understand or employ.

More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/ (Page doesn`t exist)

> >>A Christian Identity hate site. What a surprise!
>
> >No more hateful than the JDL hate site
>
> Your all too obvious resort to the _ad hominem tu quoque_ fallacy is
> noted.
> I just took a quick peek at the JDL website, not enough to form a
> general opinion, but, given that Meir Kahane’s name figures
> prominently on the home page, it seems likely that the JDL web site
> qualifies as a hate site. I am not interested in whether your
> Christian Identity site is more, or less, hateful.
>
> Let me ask you this though: why are you posting material without
> comment from a site which you admit is a hate site?
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Let me ask you this-you admit that what Burg said is accurate?
But he’s only speaking for hhimself, right?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 07:35:07 PST 1996
Article: 81840 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore babbles… was Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical
capacities
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:26:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I am a revisionist and I will say only this: until we are provided with
> > conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
> > murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
> > Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant.
>
> At least now you finally admit that you are a revisionist. Perhaps you
> could also deign to finally answer questions surrounding your utterly
> baseless accusations about the Simon Wisenthal Center and The Discovery
> Channel. (By the way, the events of Treblinka have been established as
> fact. Your refusal to accept the truth is your own flaw, but then, since
> you disregard valid sources of information and instead choose to rely on
> crap (for instance, Butler’s ‘book’, in your steadfast and groundless
> assertion that Hoess was tortured into making his admissions) it isn’t
> suprising.
>
> [snip]
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Butler is a confirmed exterminationist, which should have you
beaming with ectasy. Simply because he is honest, it seems to run
against your grain. No problem for me. Your hypocrisy was unveiled
a long time ago. BTW, perhaps you might care to enlighten us all
and tell us all the “incontrovertible facts” about Treblinka. You will
present us with all the forensic tests and the mass graves and all,
won’t you? Or will you resort to fairy tales, as is your usual wont, by
telling us that the Nazis destroyed every vestige of their “crime”.
Think before you answer for a change because we now have access to
photos which show no unusual activity at the Treblinka site at the time
the nazis were supposed to be destroying the evidence. Your beliefs rest
on fantasy, hollywood style…….nothing more, nothing less.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 07:35:07 PST 1996
Article: 81841 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Henry Ford on Jews
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:17:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:
>
“The chief difficulty in writing about the Jewish Question is
the supersensitiveness of Jews and nonJews concerning the whole
matter. There is a vague feeling that even to openly use the word
‘Jew,’ or expose it nakedly to print is somehow improper. Polite
evasions like ‘Hebrew’ and ‘Semite,’ both of which are subject to the
criticism of inaccuracy, are timidly essayed, and people pick their
way gingerly as if the whole subject were forbidden, until some
courageous Jewish thinker comes straight out with the old old word
‘Jew,’ and then the constraint is relieved and the air cleared…A Jew
is a Jew and as long as he remains within his perfectly unassailable
traditions, he will remain a Jew. And he will always have the right to
feel that to be a Jew, is to belong to a superior race. No one knows
better than the Jew how widespread the notion that Jewish methods of
business are all unscrupulous. No existing Gentile system of
government is ever anything but distasteful to him. The Jew is against
the Gentile scheme of things. He is, when he gives his tendencies
full sway, a Republican as against the monarchy, a Socialist as
against the republic, and a Bolshevik as against Socialism. Democracy
is all right for the rest of the world, but the Jew wherever he is
found forms an aristocracy of one sort or another.”

> > (Henry Ford, Dearborn Independent)
>
> “Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish
> financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> the nations into a world war, the result will be…the annhilation of
> the Jewish race throughout Europe.”
>
> – Adolf Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag; January 30, 1939.
>
> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
One day soon (rblackmore) will be eating crow pie.
-Mark Van Alstine
(When asked to produce the alleged autopsy reports
and chemical tests connducted by Charles Larson)

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 07:35:08 PST 1996
Article: 81843 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:18:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom moran)
> wrote:
>
> >>Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former
> >>prisoner in Belsen, who was “employed” as corpse carrier
> >>there (“The Belsen Trial”, p. 60-62):
> >
> > Did anyone ask Mr. Harold Le Druillence to take them to the
> >scenes of the crimes? Did anyone care to dig up these mass graves?
> > Evidently not.
>
> The Belsen photos are probably the most famous World War II atrocity
> photos.
>
> Do you always shoot foot, ask questions later?
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Do you always open mouth, stick foot?

From [email protected] Tue Nov 26 06:25:42 PST 1996
Article: 81861 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 06:58:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 53
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
-Mark Van Alstine

Well, I’m still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.

Still can’t find a public library, Mr. Belling? I’m not terribly suprised….

“The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true.” -Telford
Taylor

Then why doesn’t he practice what he preaches?

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link

Yes, please do visit. All are welcome. However, I prefer that my writings be
accessed through Deja News. They are not biased.
Actually, I believe you are quoting from the wrong Taylor. I
would think A J P Taylor would be a little less biased than old Telford,
but he suits your purposes just fine I think. Fact is, old Telford sounds
just like the jingoists of old, parroting the same old lines of stale
propaganda and so forth. Your quote is reminiscent of Stalin’s old
clique as well. However, these are the sources you must rely upon
to bolster your sagging legends. You are stuck with them and actually
seem content with the propaganda you regurgitate as frequently as most
people change their socks.

The
problem is the new generation is not as naive as those past, and political
and historical awareness is now more the rule than the exception, along with
a deep distrust of the “establishment” which has proven its hypocrisy to
the young generation over and over again. Those old cliches about Germany
and the military planning and starting a new war is the most obscene drivel
I have read in a long while. If you want to start examining wars in this century and
their causes I would be most happy to do so. As far as a public library, the one
I have at home is absolutley perfect for my needs. Remember, I own approximately
40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
as is their usual way.

From [email protected] Tue Nov 26 06:25:43 PST 1996
Article: 81870 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Birth of an Urban Legend (was Re: Suchomel and Shoah)
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:10:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >So! Suchomel was portrayed by an actor?
>
> Prediction: it will become part of denier cant that Suchomel was
> portrayed by an actor in Claude Lanzmann’s “Shoah”. Give it time to go
> around a couple of times, and Suchomel will turn out to have been
> portrayed by an actor at the Treblinka trial, too. Wait a while
> longer, and it will become the new denier thesis for the Nuremberg
> trials.
>
> Savor the moment: it is not often that one is present at the birth of
> a new urban legend.

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Such as the legend of the Holocaust? You have had the
benefit of much more experience at this sort of thing than
we have. We have a ways to go before our so-called legends
become non-secular. When is the projected date for the next
addition to the Old Testament, namely, the Book of Shoah?

From [email protected] Tue Nov 26 06:25:44 PST 1996
Article: 81900 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:27:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
> Carpenter) wrote:
>
> > “Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what
> > is possible. Israel has been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend
> > Israel! Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And
> > the world will defend us.”
> >
> > (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book Epitres aux Juifs, 1938)

> “Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish
> financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> the nations into a world war, the result will be…the annhilation of
> the Jewish race throughout Europe.”
>
> – Adolf Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag; January 30, 1939.
> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
-Mark Van Alstine

Well, I’m still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.

From [email protected] Tue Nov 26 06:25:45 PST 1996
Article: 81914 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt’s Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 23 Nov 1996 06:38:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 105
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

Letter from SS-doctor August Hirt to the “Ahnenerbe” Institute,
July 14 1943
[Presacc, J.C, The Struthof Album, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1985,
Page 11]
——————————————————————–
I’m aware of the SD letter, but I must share that, according to a
memo from the Camp commandant, because of a difficulty, the material
for gassing is not present. I ask you that the appropriate material
be made available, else the matter can not be carried out.

Furthermore, I ask for a supply slip for 150 pcs of x-ray film,
format 24×30. I can probably get the film from the hospital
administration here.

<end quote>

Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above, I will only
direct the reader to note that Hirt is another one of those mysterious
“suicides” or “presumed missing”. Probably ushered out of Europe
by the “Vatican Connection” no doubt! Isn’t it curious how all the
most damaging documents are signed by people alleged to be suicides
or MIA’s? How coincidental.

Missing like Bormann. You should bother to respond.

Good. Let’s dig into this subject a bit deeper, shall we?

1/ Kramer said that he got from Hirt cyanide salts to gas about one
hundred of earmarked Jews, that he did it and delivered the corpses to
> the mortuary of Hirt.

So Kramer said he received cyanide salts from Hirt? And where did Hirt
receive them from? Do you happen to have a document which shows
Hirt ordering cyanide salts? Now, would these be the one and the same
Zyklon B we have all heard so much about? If Kramer was in charge of
the executions, why did he not apply for the salts himself?
>
> 2/ A lot of letters of Hirt to Kramer, another SS of the Ahnenerbe and
> vice versa still exist, as the one above, planning the gassing.

All of this planning for this one little gassing?? All these documents?
Then I ask where all the documents are relating to the mass gassing
of Jews at Auschwitz……Another question, how many other people were
gassed at Struthof besides this “experimental group”? Or did the authorities
decide to build a structure specially to gas this small group of people when they
could have been gassed at Dachau, seeing that a chamber already existed there at and
Neuengamme, according to many posters on alt revisionism. If the corpses were not to be
damaged, why were they gassed instead of being given phenol injections,
which would have accomplished the job just as quickly and efficiently.

> 3/ Testimonies from Natzweiler exist about the gassings, as documents
> about the gas chamber. The gas chamber remained.

Yet this gas chamer has never been thoroughly examined, to the best
of my knowledge. No, I take that back. It was examined by none other
than Robert Faurisson and proclaimed a fraud.
>
> 5/ Hirt left quickly because of the unexpected breakthrough of the 2th
> DB, and it was found one week later 86 corpses without heads in
> special tanks in the basement of the mortuary.

86 corpses found in a special tank in a morgue in an institute for
the study of anatomy? Hardly out of the ordinary.
>
> 6/ Testimonies from the mortuary exist about the delivery of these
> corpses with the same dates than Natzweiler (they were informed about
> the day and hour of each delivery and all the corpses were still
> warm), what Hirt said about these, and his final order to cut and
> incinerate the heads before he left.

Well, if all this is true, what can you tell us about the victims? And in
what year were these Ichabod Crane corpses found?
>
> 7/ The selection of the earmarked Jews in Auschwitz is mentioned in
> the chronicle.

Are you then saying that all of the victims were Jews?
>
> 8/ One French witness noticed something that he couldn’t make up when
> he testified (in Dec 44), proving that the victims came from Auschwitz
> (what he didn’t know).

Well, will you share this with us? Who was this mystery witness and what was
said?

> Now, I’m curious to see how you will manage to uphold that no gassing
> occurred in Natzweiler ?

Apparently there was a so-called Natzweiler trial where this incident
was discussed and I have seen the publication, but I was very disappointed
with the limited space this subject was allowed.
Now, I am curious as to how you will answer my questions.

From [email protected] Thu Nov 28 07:03:32 PST 1996
Article: 82105 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 22 Nov 1996 21:54:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:

> <end quote>

> -Danny Keren.

And where may we find the alleged author of this report today?

From [email protected] Thu Nov 28 08:26:25 PST 1996
Article: 82422 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:57:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Remember, I own approximately
> >40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
> >as is their usual way.
>
> Uh huh. Sure you do. And you’re really a thirteen year old girl, too.
>
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

By the way, if you’ll believe the Holocaust, you’ll believe anything.

From [email protected] Thu Nov 28 08:26:26 PST 1996
Article: 82424 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I have to agree with Goldhagen
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:18:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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You would. What is so surprising about that?

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:24 PST 1996
Article: 82585 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:10:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >Do you always open mouth, stick foot?
>
> Not always. Sometimes you won’t open your mouth wide enough; sometimes
> your clown shoes won’t fit.

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Perhaps not, but they’ll fit in your mouth, where they belong.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:25 PST 1996
Article: 82586 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Morgenthau says waste Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:12:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (Michael
> P. Stein) writes:
> :>
> :>In article <[email protected]>,
> :>Chris Carpenter <[email protected]> wrote:
> :>> “Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there
> :>>during the 30 year War.”
> :>>
> :>> (Das Morgenthau Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Diary, p. 11).
> :>
> :> And the fact that Germany is now the agricultural third-world nation
> :>that Morgenthau wanted proves once again how tightly Da Joos control
> :>everything.
>
> ROTFL.
> This is priceless! Stein 10, Chris zilch.

> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time

The repressive German Government of today, which stifles
free speech and inquiry, is the legacy of the Morgenthau
Plan.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 82600 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:42:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> Testimony of Richard Glazer
>
> We were taken to a barracks. The whole place stank. Piled about
> five feet high in a jumbled mass, were all the things people
> could conceivably brought. Clothes, suitcases, everything stacked
> in a solid mass. On top of it, jumping around like demons, people
> were making bundles and carrying them outside. It was turned over
> to one of these men. His armband said “Squad Leader.” He shouted,
> and I understood that I was also to pick up clothing, bundle it,
> and take it somewhere. As I worked, I asked him: “What’s going
> on? Where are the ones who stripped?” And he replied: “Dead! All
> dead!”
>
> But it still hadn’t sunk in, I didn’t believe it. He’s used the
> Yiddish word. It was the first time I’d heard Yiddish spoken. He
> didn’t say it very loud, and I saw he had tears in his eyes.
> Suddenly, he started shouting, and raised his whip. Out of the
> corner of my eye I saw an SS man coming. And I understood that I
> was to ask no more questions, but just to rush outside with the
> package.
>
> Work Cited:
>
> Lanzmann, Claude. Shoah: The Complete Text of the Acclaimed
> Holocaust Film. New York: De Capo Press. 1995 p. 38

More lies from the same people who brought you black SS uniforms
years after they were discontinued…..If you can’t believe the messengers,
how can you believe the message?

From rblac[email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 82630 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore babbles… was Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical
capacities
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:48:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[snip]

Butler is a confirmed exterminationist, which should have you
beaming with ectasy. Simply because he is honest, it seems to run
against your grain.

Whether or not Butler acknowledges the Holocaust is irrelevant. You’re
relying on a third party recitation of something Clark allegedly said.

No. I am relying on what Clark said in a taped interview.

Worse, you claim it as absolute proof that Hoess was tortured, and that
said torture was the ultimate source of Hoess statements. Such stunted
logic on your part demonstrates a lack of forethought in your arguments.

No problem for me. Your hypocrisy was unveiled a long time ago.

Of course, being the bastion of truth that you are (not), you can
substantiate your stupidity.

I can substantiate yours much better.

BTW, perhaps you might care to enlighten us all
> > and tell us all the “incontrovertible facts” about Treblinka. You will
> > present us with all the forensic tests and the mass graves and all,
> > won’t you? Or will you resort to fairy tales, as is your usual wont, by
> > telling us that the Nazis destroyed every vestige of their “crime”.
>
> The uncontrovertible fact is that at Terblinka, somewhere around three
> quarters of a million people, many Jews, many Gypsies, but others as well,
> were murdered. They were herded into gass chambers. They were shot. For you
> to call the extermination of so many people a fairy tale is, yet again,
> demonstrative of your inability to estrange yourself from your fetid nazi
> apologia.

We are still waiting for the proof. Where is it?
>
> > Think before you answer for a change because we now have access to
> > photos which show no unusual activity at the Treblinka site at the time
> > the nazis were supposed to be destroying the evidence. Your beliefs rest
> > on fantasy, hollywood style…….nothing more, nothing less.
>
> You of course can provide a source for these photographs as well as
> documented confirmation that they are authentic ? Or will you claim that
> you have them in ‘storage’ as is your normal method when asked for
> documentation ?

Research it. The photos are available.
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi. (rblackmore)

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:27 PST 1996
Article: 82632 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:26:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> : Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?
>
> Mr. Belling, is it your sincere claim that documents authored by
> dead people cannot be used as historical evidence?
> Bill
>>>>
No, only documents forged or offered by liars.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:28 PST 1996
Article: 82638 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Russians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:41:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

[email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:

[quote snipped for space]

Since Mr. Blackmore has such difficulty figuring out what is shown
by these documents, I suppose I had better lend a hand. Revisionists such as Greg Raven have
asserted that the mass murder o Jews during the invasion of Russia was due to security concerns, tha the
Jews were identified as a partisan threat. I am not aware that Mr. Raven has ever offered any
explanation of how
old women and little children were regarded as a partisan threat, that
they too should have been killed. And in other documents posted here, it
is seen that in the execution reports that Jews are listed as a separate
> >> category on a report where guerillas and suspected guerillas have their
> >> own listing.

This seems to have been the case. If they were saboteurs or partisans or
criminals and also Jews, this fact was mentioned. It is also a fact that children
roaming with partisan bands were also shot with the rest. Hundreds of thousands
of Jews fought with the partisans, and often used children to attack and murder
German subjects. Over 1.5 million Jews fought with the various allied forces
during the war. Thus, Jews were regarded as “the enemy”. Note that the allies
did not stop to ask how many German children were in Dresden when they fire-
bombed it. War is war, whether you are Jewish or German or any other nationality.
And what was good for the goose is also good for the gander. I don’t like it, but
that’s the way it is-or was. The allies thought of the Germans in the same way
Nazis thought of the Jews: the common enemies of all mankind.

> >> The above document is further evidence that contrary to revisionist
> >> claims, Nazi killing operations in occupied Russia had motivations other
> >> than security concerns. It is difficult to see how the feebleminded could
> >> be considered a partisan threat. Furthermore, it shows that the occupiers
> >> felt secure enough that they could divert resources to such a nonessential
> >> task.

> >Would it be asking too much to post the entire extract
> >from Halder’s diary?
>
> At this point, I think that if you wish to allege that someone is
> being intellectually dishonest by cutting out exculpatory material, it is
> your job to show that such material exists.
>
> You suggested that it is Charles Power who ought to do the work of
> finding out Lanzmann’s net worth to provide the evidence about Mr.
> Beaulieu’s unsupported assertion that he is a millionaire. You suggested
> that it is Danny Keren who is responsible for disproving Chris Carpenter’s
> improperly sourced quote. If I fabricate a quote from you saying you were
> a child molester, how would you go about proving you never said that?

It would be up to you to prove that I was.
>
> Dr. Keren gave the full, checkable source. Yet you demand he cater to
> your whims to show you more to prove he _didn’t_ give you something out of
> context. Sorry, some hypocrisy is rather apparent here.

Mine, or Keren’s-who makes all kinds of demands on me as well.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:28 PST 1996
Article: 82657 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:34:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-206.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> ## [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> ## Testimony of Richard Glazer
>
> # More lies from the same people who brought you black
> # SS uniforms years after they were discontinued
>
> See previous post. The Ukrainian guards wore black uniform
> and were called “the blacks”.
>
> # If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe
> # the message?
>
> Very good. This is exactly why we should not believe anything
> posted by the lying Nazi apologist, “rblackmore”, after he
> brazenly lied about Amon Goeth, claiming he was “executed by
> the SS for mistreating Jews”, while in reality he was tried
> and executed by the Poles after the war.
>
> It is incredible to see to what lengths this lying Nazi
> apologist will go, in order to whitewash the crimes of his
> Nazi heroes – he does not even hesitate to invent such
> incredible lies, which are, after all, easy to refute.

How would you know, since you have never refuted anything
I ever posted? By the way, I already dealt with the Goeth business
in another post. I received the info from a Jewish researcher. Apparently
another liar like you. And your hero Glazer never mentions Ukrainian SS
guards. Only SS in Green and Black uniforms. Another liar, like you.
>
> But then, Nazi apologists are usually rather stupid.

> -Danny Keren.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:29 PST 1996
Article: 82658 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:28:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-206.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Why don’t you simply PROVE that this
> >quote is a forgery and put an end to this
> >guy’s insolence once and for all? We are
> >waiting…..
>
> As I pointed out (or tried, without much success) to Chris Carpenter a
> while back, there is no way to prove positively that someone *didn’t* say
> or write something. That is why it is up to the person attributing the
> words to demonstrate that there is grounds for the attribution. However,
> when asked for a source, the best this moron can do is refer back to the
> web page from which he gleaned the quote (for all I know, having made it
> up and placed it there himself). This is Matt Giwer scholarship. I could
> put together a web page myself featuring Adolf Hitler’s long-awaited
> specific order to set up the gas chambers of Oswiecim, and you’d have no
> way to *disprove* that it was authentic.
>
> An intelligent little girl should have been able to figure these things
> out for herself, Jane. (BTW, did your post in that other conference
> garner any responses from cute teenage boys?)

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Of course not.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:30 PST 1996
Article: 82659 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You’re to be disinfected!
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:31:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-206.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
> # [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
>
> ## Testimony of Richard Glazer
> ##
> ## And suddenly it started: the yelling and screaming. “All out,
> ## everybody out!” All those shouts, the uproar, the tumult! “Out!
> ## Get out! Leave the baggage!” We got out stepping on each other.
> ## We saw men waering blue armbands. Some carried whips. We saw
> ## some SS men, Green uniforms, black uniforms…
>
> # I have news for you. The black SS uniform was completely
> # discontinued at the beginning of the war.
>
> He’s possibly referring to the uniform of the Ukrainian guards,
> which were black (which is why these guards were called “the
> blacks”).
>
> # Lanzmann has obviously seen too many Hollywood movies.
>
> You’re obviously an arrogant, lying, and stupid Nazi apologist.
>
> Maybe you want to tell us why you claimed that Amon Goeth was
> “executed by the SS” for mistreating Jews, while in reality
> he was tried and executed for his crimes by the Poles, after
> the war?
>
> What a stupid, lying Nazi-apologist you are…

> -Danny Keren.

Look who’s calling someone stupid-Danny and his porno collection.
Now, as to your comment-read again-“We saw some SS men, Green
uniforms, black uniforms,”
Another liar, just like you. A liar who quotes liars.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:31 PST 1996
Article: 82660 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:29:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-206.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> [Alleged “quote” from “French Rabbi”]
>
> # Why don’t you simply PROVE that this quote
> # is a forgery
>
> Sigh. Suppose someone claims that you said that you
> like to sexually molest children. You may well take
> him to court, and the court will, obviously, ask him
> to prove that you said it. If he responds by claiming
> that you have to prove you didn’t say it, the court
> will, obviously, reject this line of defense.
>
> So stop being such a damned idiot, will you?

> -Danny Keren.

Sigh. Prove to us that Himmler said what you claim he said at Posen.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:31 PST 1996
Article: 82664 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Medical ‘Experiments’ in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:11:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images Broken link
>
> MedExp03.jpg:
>
> The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected
> corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt’s “anthropological
> research”.

> See photographs of relevant documents in
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images Broken link
>
> (Translation to be added soon).

> -Danny Keren.

Yes, corpses in an Institute for the study of human anatomy!
How strange! Next, Danny will be referring to the experiments
made by the mad Nazi doctor, Frankenstein, who succeeded
in reviving one of these headless Ichabod Crane corpses…..
And lest we forget, remember the “eyeballs tacked to the walls” of
the mad Nazi doctor, Mengele, the “angel of death”, as we have been
told by another “survivor”…….Fie Fi Fo Fum, I smell the lies of another bum…

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:32 PST 1996
Article: 82684 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:14:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
[email protected] wrote:

Why don’t you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
alive at Dresden by the allies,

Why don’t you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?

Apparently I will have to do so, since Nizkor seems too cowardly or
dishonest to do so. Look for it sometime in January. I have a lot of
scanning to do, and I have been compiling photos to rival anything old
Danny Keren can post.

I’ve seen these pictures and they look real to me. Piles of burned
bodies in wagons. Burned bodies lining the streets are photographed.
I’m not going to deny that it happened like you, blackmore, are
denying the Holocaust.

Well, that really depends on one’s definition of the Holocaust.
How are you defining it?

In case you didn’t know, and we all know that you don’t care, German
civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
mostly by Jews in Poland hell bent on revenge and with the complicity and

Wrong. It was mostly by the Polish goverment, the Czech government,
the Russian government.

Wrong. These governments, controlled by the clever Stalin, deliberately
appointed Jews as kommandants of the various concentration camps
where german civilians were confined, persecuted, and murdered. The
total number of murders is estimated at around 3 million. In fact, these
Jews were most eager to fulfill these murderous tasks, and boasted
about their adventures.

I see you have dropped _Nemesis at Potsdam_
> for the more sensational Sack book.

Of course the Sack book is not only sensational, as is most of the evidence
you rely upon to support the Holocaust, but it also happens to be 100%
accurate, as you ought to well know.

I’m for more interested in the
> historical truth than in sensational over-blown stories.

Like the Holocaust, which is the most overblown story in existence?
Now deal with the evidence provided by Sack.

I guess it is
> too much to ask what came first; the destruction of their countries by
> the Germans or their brutality towards their German speaking citizens.

Please! You know it is too much to ask…..You are walking on egg shells
with this subject and you ought to know it….

> Most historians try to ask whether these folks supported the Nazis in
> their overthorow of these countries rather than trying to equate it
> with the Holocaust

Most historians would be uncomfortable with the real facts.

Most historians realize that we are dealing with
> different issues here. They realize that refugees kept coming despite
> Western attempts to stem the flow. I guess it is clear that historical
> truth is not your main goal here.

Which refugees are you talking about-the Jews from Poland, or the Germans,
expelled from their ancestral homes in Eastern europe as part of Stalin, Rossevelt
and Churchill’s plan to exterminate millions of people?
>
> [test deleted]

> > doesn’t equal German civilians caught in a legitiment
> >> bombing raid.
> >
> >Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
> >British Air Marshall Harris, known as “Bomber Harris”. You ought to
> >brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.
> >
>
> Your sense of hstory isn’t all that good either, Blackmore. I think
> the study of Dresden and the bombing needs to go a little deeper than
> one single English officer.

Do you really think I have relied solely upon Harris for these facts?
If so, think again. But harris is probably the best witness to this atrocity,
since he implemented it.
>
> [snipped quibbling over numbers of a horrid event]

> > The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass
> >> shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best
> >> shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.
> >
> >Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two
> >entirely different things.
>
> This sounds like something a five year old would say. Is your tongue
> sticking out behind Chuck’s back?

No. To his face.

From [email protected] Sat Nov 30 11:29:33 PST 1996
Article: 82702 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:06:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 220
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

[Mr. Belling, if you could be so kind, please show a bit more competance
when replying to posts. You have become egregiously sloppy about keeping
the attribution to what people say in proper order. This makes reading
your spastic Nazi drivel all the more difficult.]

[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[email protected] wrote:

What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the> > Germans as compared with what
happened to the Jews. Simple
enough?

Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

Well, for a start, some three million “Aryan” German civilians weren’t
deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
German civilians….

Er, Mr. Belling, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Sure seems
like it. Must be from those comic books you call a library. Too many
pictures and not enough big words.

[Mr. Belling’s smelly dead fish snipped]

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you’re words
don’t make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand: The Nazis claimed it
was the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were
“getting their asses kicked” in the Soviet Union. Capisce?

And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany, Mr.
Belling?

Ask your friends at the synagogue. Why ask me? BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?

[Mr. Belling’s ad hominem drooling snipped]

BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities
in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?

Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
them?

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.

I see. But then you glorify dead Nazis and defend their mass murder of
millions. Hardly suprising then that you’d like to taunt the Japanese
survivors of the atomic bombings.

Oh-I am taunting the japanese? How quaint. I think it might be a
good point of reference if you first post the evidence that the Nazis
murdered millions of Jews and then tell us how they did it, and be sure to
include proof. i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
by Dr. Larson on “gassed” inmates at dachau….what? You misplaced
them?….Tsk, tsk.

Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden.

Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
amusing! Sherry’s _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
> > in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
> > in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
> > Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.)
> >
> > Listen, Mr. Marky Mark: The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned
> for the figures released by the German authorities at the time of the
> bombing.
>
> Really. Then why did the Dresden City Museum cite the 35,000 figure as its
> official estimate as late as 1995? (To my knowledge they still do.)
>
> > The figure was stated publicly on National News Services at least twice
> over the past 5 years.
>
> Dresden City Museum. 35,000. 1995.

National News Service. 135,000. 1996.
>
> > Believe it if you want, or don’t if you don’t want. It is all the same to me.
>
> Uh huh.
>
> > BTW, I already referred you to the comments made by the Senior British
> Officer
> > in charge of planning the whole raid. If you choose to believ your source, go
> > ahead.
>
> And since when did I need your pernmision on anything, Mr. Belling of the
> 45 comic book library?
>
> > For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
> 135,000, perhaps higher.
>
> Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you?

Already cited. How could I be any more embarrassed than you? A puppet
for a synagogue?
>
> > There never was an air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole
> > history of modern warfare.
>
> Oh please. Hamburg was a far worse. And all of the raids against German
> cities paled against the Toyko raid.

Thanks for citing further atrocities. Dresden was by far the worse.
Revealing that you never mentioned any German air raids.
>
> > The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest
> > estimates as well as estimates at the time.
>
> Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you?
>
> > _Who’s_ “latest” estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum’s,
> > that’s for sure! As for “estimates at the time,” the Nazis origionally
> > claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
> > Communists claimed 350,000.
> >
> > Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered
> propaganda.
> >
> > You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
>
> No, yo have repeatedly made appeals to your non-existant authority. Sorry,
> Mr. Belling, but that dog don’t hunt. Please cite a specific source. Or is
> this too embarrassing for you?

I will not do your research for you. Look up the original reports of the
authorities in Dresden who had to dispose of the bodies. However, that
won’t do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
>
> > http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001 Broken link
> >
> > But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
> > attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
> > tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
> >
> > No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths.
>
> Since when did where the Axis death tolls restricted to military
> casulties? Since _you_ said so? Sorry, Mr. Belling go peddle your smelly
> dead fish elsewhere.

Why should I, when the smell improves your stench?
>
> > These are men, women and children….grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
> > arms, all fleeing for sanctuary…..You have your images confused.
> >
> > I’m afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the
> > Axis.
> >
> > The “citizens” were civilians. Your images are confused.
>
> Nope. I think perhaps it is _you_ who are confused. Obviusly you have
> mixed up the fact that Nazis did not consider German Jews citizens of the
> Reich with German nationals being members of the Axis by the fact that
> Germany, their country, had treaty obligations to such.

We get your drift Herr Rebbe…..
>
> > According to _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
> >
> > “…the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
> > World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy
> > (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
> > (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)”
> >
> > I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly _ignorant_ of
> > history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
> > Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
> > longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality?
> >
> > And who classifies babes in arms as the “axis”-you?
>
> German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling.

Oh. Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
of the the children of Jewish partisans.
>
> > In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
> > unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,
> >
> > Why don’t you tell us more about Poland…
>
> Why don you? No comic book on the topic?
>
> [Mr. Belling’s boorish Nazi whining snipped]

Oooh…the facts hurt don’t they?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:16 PST 1996
Article: 81213 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:32:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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