Documents

Blackmore 1196 part 2, Bellinger Joseph

Daniel Keren writes:
> [email protected]
> Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin,
> 30 January 1942. Quoted in “The Holocaust”, by Martin Gilbert,
> Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, 1985, p. 285. Text as monitored by the
> Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service, Federal Communications Commission.
> ———————————————————————
> And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it
> will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of
> this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.

Fact is, it turned out to be the opposite of what Hitler predicted.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:17 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:27:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
> ———————————————————-
> We have – I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
> taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
> first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
> this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
> mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
> Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a
> matter of cleanliness.

Compare Himmler’s comments with those of the jewish publisher
Theodore Kaufmann, who wrote:

There is no longer any alternative: Germany must perish!…This
analagous linking of the people of Germany with savage beast
is no vulgar comparison. I feel no more personal hatred for these
people than I might feel for a herd of wild animals or a cluster of
poisonous reptiles…..They are but beasts; they must be dealt with
as such…….(the Germans serve as) “hypodermics through which
the malignant bacilli of Germanism was being syringed into the
bloodstream…..”

Of course, Mr. Kaufmann really didn’t MEAN what he said, did he?
And his ideas were NEVER put into effect, were they?
Think again, dear readers.

Quotes from: Germany Must Perish, by Theodore Kaufmann,
N.J. 1941.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:28:04 GMT
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> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
> > > Chuck Ferree wrote:
> > >
> > > Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
> > >
> > > Chuck

> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > > clips
> > >
> > > What I am trying to do is see if
> > > > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> > > > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
> > > > enough?
> > >
> > > Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
> > > not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

What happened to the Germans was as I seem
> > > to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
> > > collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
> > > to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
> > > Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it. Remind me to call on your humble
services when the present Pope dies. It seems we have two infallible
people in this world: The Pope and the Anti-Pope.

> > > BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in
> > > Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
> Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
> ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden. The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps
higher according to the latest estimates as well as estimates at the time.
>
> But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
> attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
> tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not “Axis” death tolls. These are not military deaths. These
are men, women and children….grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
arms, all fleeing for sanctuary…..You have your images confused.

> In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
> unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don’t you tell us more about Poland-which was SO greedy that it gobbled
up a portion of Czechoslovakia at the same time as Hitler, and which greedily
hung on to Danzig, which was never hers to hold on to at all, except by the whimsy
of the allies, and which embarked upon a program of persecution against ethnic
Germans long before Hitler ever invaded their country? To say that his invasion
was unprovoked is quite naive.

the Anglo-American bombing
> against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
> The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives.

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed? If not, then don’t
include 6 million more. You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews
died, much less 6 million more.
>
> Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being “pure military
> targets,” that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
> typically dishonest distortion by Mr. Belling.

The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.

Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> were “legitimate military target[s].”

This was not the case. You ought to read the comments of British
Air Marshall “Bomber Harris” before you write things which will inevitably
be corrected.
>
> In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining “German morale, plus
> assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> and fouling it with refugees.” (Ibid.)

Oh-so the way to “defoul the refugees” was to burn them alive? Is that it?
Is this what you are offering us? Undermine “German morale”? By burning
alive 135,000 men, women and children? How quaint…..
>
> In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.

And rightfully so. If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
Don’t you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the allies? No,
you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would compromise your
“special” status for the Jewish victims. All victims would then be equal and equally
deserving of our compassion and sympathy, and, of course, that is something
you simply can not afford.

It is not a
> new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To establish an (ersatz)
> moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the
> war against Germany.

And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit
what you know to be a true fact.

Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> deniers’ Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.

On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
tales.
>
> Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion.

There is no hate on my part. I am not affiliated with any so-called
hate group and I number people of all creeds and races among my
most intimate friends and acquaintances. You are not speaking to
another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
as they are not biased.
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:09:09 GMT
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Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
Chuck Ferree writes:

rbl, why must everyone else do your work for you? You lazy bastid!!!

[email protected] wrote:

Why don’t you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
alive at Dresden by the allies,

Why don’t you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?

Apparently I will have to do so, since Nizkor seems too cowardly or
dishonest to do so. Look for it sometime in January. I have a lot of
scanning to do, and I have been compiling photos to rival anything old
Danny Keren can post.

You’re
> so hep on tit for tat bull. One dead Jew starved to death, worked to
> death, gassed to death, singled out because they were Jews, murdered
> by design,

In case you didn’t know, and we all know that you don’t care, German
civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
mostly by Jews in Poland hell bent on revenge and with the complicity and
blessings of your old Uncle-not Sam-but Papa Joe Stalin. It is true that
they weren’t gassed to death, but that would have been too merciful. For
those interested enough to read the details, I recommend the book, “An
Eye for an Eye”, by Jewish author John Sack, who vainly searches for
meaning in all the madness.

doesn’t equal German civilians caught in a legitiment
> bombing raid.

Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
British Air Marshall Harris, known as “Bomber Harris”. You ought to
brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.

Nobody decided to burn 37,0000 or so Germans to death at
> Dresden.

You have your figures wrong. The real figure is 137,000 and possibly
higher, which means more dead than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
The figures were deliberately reduced to 10 percent of the actual losses
incurred as the allies sought to cover up their own crime of mass murder
in a defenseless open city. Shame on you !

The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass
> shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best
> shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.

Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two
entirely different things.
>
> Chuck

> under heat so intense that the
> > corpses actually melted together?
>
> That’s what happened to Jews who were burned alive by the Germans.
>
> BTW, perhaps you will
> > advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
> > Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
> > initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.

> Look it up, dummy. We don’t work for you. You wanna know, do your own
> research.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:19 PST 1996
Article: 81292 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgotten Genocide History?
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:07:33 GMT
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> [email protected] writes:
> Forgotten Genocide History for 8 yr. old Children
>
> Instead of Black History Month, perhaps February should become
> Genocide History Month wherein all 8 yr. olds would study the
> Irish Potatoe Holocauste, The Manifest Destiny Holocaust, The
> Extermination of 60,000,000 Bison & Pronghorn Holocaust, The
> African Holocauste 200,000,000 Africans exterminated.
>
> A separate month should be set aside for the HOLOCAUST as there
> are actually three more historical incidents of Jewish extermination –
> albeit strangely forgotten.
>
> According to American Jewish Committee Historical Society;
>
> 1825 the first Jewish Holocaust – Dubnov
> 1880 2,500,000 Jews Exterminated – Dubnov
> 1910 A Campaign to exterminate 6,000,000 Jews
> & THE 1940 Holocaust 6,000,000 Jews exterminated
> (the WORST because of the Auschwitz Kadaver Factory capable of
> rendering 20-30,000 Jews an hour – for a total of 4,000,000)
>
> T.
> macZugaKausT cat3wog American-American Houston Texas
> http://home.aol.com/WASPnot (Page doesn`t exist) (WASP’s anti-WOG Immigration History)
> http://home.aol.com/SalaryPlan ((Page doesn`t exist) WASP’s anti-WOG glass/iron Ceiling)
> http://members.aol.com/HistoryNOT (Page doesn`t exist) (History WASPs want to Censor)
> http://members.aol.com/WaspWatch (Page doesn`t exist) (Texacos Shredde Documents)
> http://members.aol.com/UofHKausT (Page doesn`t exist) ( Big Six SPC Confidential Secrets)

Wouldn’t the first Jewish Holocaust begin with the Babylonian exile and
the disappearance of the lost ten tribes?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:59 GMT
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <3294[email protected]> – [email protected] (Harry
> W. Mazal OBE)Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:57:18 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> :>
>
> [proof positve that Blackmore is a liar deleted]
>
> :>Mr. Blackmore is a liar. Get used to it.
>
> Thank you Mr. Mazal, but we were already used to it.

> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time

We?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:10:14 GMT
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[email protected] (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
Jean-Francois Beaulieu ([email protected]) wrote:

For about a week I’m saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
10 years.

Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,

This is amazing. Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
at the time!

A splendid example of “revisionist” double standards of evidence. Video
is not enough for these people. Video! A video interview with someone
is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!

And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
in 1996 I suppose?

How silly this can get – but the game of supposing and hypothetical
theories can be used also the other way round.

Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel
that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn’t like
to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
> he did speak only to regret this later because he didn’t like to be
> shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: – testimonies do not count.
>
> Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz
> Suchomel, dated let’s say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one.
> Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel’s certificate. M Beaulieu
> or another “Revisionist” will claim that such a document
> does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal.
>
> Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he’ll argue
> someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
> pains to provide it he’d ask for another forensic test by a “neutral”
> commission. (I think Anne Frank’s diary was tested independently by
> several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with
> the same result that it is authentic – little surprise. But the claims
> of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).
>
> So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
> for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann’s film, the
> guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
> certificate were really the same person. May be, he’ll argue, there
> had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
> such a person, who knows …
>
> Can be proceeded ad infinitum.
>
> u.roessler [email protected]

I am a revisionist and I will say only this: until we are provided with
conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant. People also
confessed to being witches and licking the devils behind. People can and
do confess to almost everything, up to being abducted by aliens.
Mr, Lanzmann’s film is a long and boring curiosity, filled with statements
by eyewitnesses who miraculously lived to tell about alleged crimes
which have never been proven by independent physical evidence.
If such were available the Soviets would have been the first to
produce it after their embarrassment over the mass murders at Katyn
. In a way, they still got their revenge without even having to prove
their accusations against the Germans at the end of the war. Take it
for what it is worth-little or next to nothing.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:21 PST 1996
Article: 81314 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:52:41 GMT
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [re: the claim that Franz Suchomel was portrayed by an actor which
> these wingnuts now seem to think is conclusively proved by Beaulieu’s
> idle speculations]
>
> >Whether he was an actor or not, it is clear that he was a liar in
> >any event.
>
> Could you expand on this? Like offer some evidence of your contention
> that Franz Suchomel was a liar? Was he tortured? Was he in fear of his
> life?

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/

Are you asking me? How would I know what his inducement was,
if any? All I know is that it appears everything he allegedly said
appears to be a lie or based upon a lie. Let’s see some forensic evidence
and then we can discuss the merits or demerits of his comments.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:22 PST 1996
Article: 81315 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:50:46 GMT
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <56sc1t$7p7@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> And the evidence that Mr. Beaulieu is alive is?
>
> > No one. I’m Matt Giwer.
> > and Al Baron.
>
> You can’t be Al Baron unless British jails have Internet access.

> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

No doubt now you’ll be referring to him as “Big Al”.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81317 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel’s connfession of guilt and hope
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:47:17 GMT
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
“Now, at the end of this Trial I want to present equally frankly the
avowel and confession I have to make today.
“In the course of the trial my defense counsel submitted two fundemental
questions to me, the first one… was: ‘In case of a victory, would you
have refused to particpate in any part of the success?’ I answered: ‘No, I
should certaihnly have been proud of it.’

“The second question was: ‘How would you act if you were in the same
position again?’ My answer: ‘Then I should rather choose death than to let
myself be drawn into a net of such pernicious methods.’

“From these two answers the High Tribunal may see my viewpoint. I
believed, but I erred, and I was not in a position to prevent what ought
to have been prevented. That is my guilt.

“It is tragic to have realized that the best I had to give as a soldier,
obediance and loyalty, was exploiyed for purposes that could not be
recognoized at the time, and that I did not see that there is a limit even
for a soldier’s performance of his duty. That is my fate.

“From the clear recognition of the causes, the pernicious methods, and the
terrible consequences of this war, may there arise the hope for a new
future in the community of nations for the German people.
>
> -Generalfeldmarchall Wilhelm Keitel, Chef OKW; August 15, 1946, Nuremburg.
> (Sentenced to death by the International Military Tribunal and hanged,
> 1946.)
>
> (Taylor, _The Anatomy of the Nuremeburg Trials_, pp.537-538.)

> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
Sad and pathetic words from a man condemned to death without
sufficient cause and still hopeful of a reprieve. Better luck next
time.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81326 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:11:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
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References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> On 21 Nov 1996 17:48:05 GMT, [email protected] (william c
> anderson) wrote:
>
> >Chris Carpenter ([email protected]) wrote:
> >: “Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
> >: Christians and get control of their gold. We have already killed 100
> >: million of them, and the end is not yet.”
> >:
> >: (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
> >
> >Gee–what is it that makes me think you made this up, Chris? Why
> >don’t you just go whole hog. Here–I’ll show you how:
> Why would I make that up?
>
> >”We Jews are evil, I tell you! Evil, evil, evil! We will not stop
> > until the blood of the last Christian Baby is drained and mixed in
> > our matzoh batter, and the last ounce of Christian gold is ours.
> > BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!”
> >(The Head of All the Jews in the World, 1996)
> Why would_ you_ make this up?
>
> >There…isn’t that more convincing?
> >Bill
> No. Mine is a quote from the Chief Rabbi of France.
> Yours, in fact, is made up.
> Your point is understood but not well taken here. Unless you can show
> me that Rabbi Reichorn would never say something so arrogant, I’ll
> stick with his quote.
> Chris_______________________________________________
Do you really expect him to show anything more than the face of a
deranged clown?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:24 PST 1996
Article: 81332 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:56:26 GMT
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> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/

Is that a proposal? Shame on you!

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:25 PST 1996
Article: 81345 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:58:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

Remember, I own approximately
40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
as is their usual way.

Uh huh. Sure you do. And you’re really a thirteen year old girl, too.

John Morris <[email protected]>
at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
–
The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/

By the way, if you’ll believe the Holocaust, you’ll believe anything.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81357 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:45:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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[email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[email protected] wrote:

What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
enough?

Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

Well, for a start, some three million “Aryan” German civilians weren’t
deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended. There, they were worked,
beaten, starved, and tortured to death. Men, women, and children. And most of
these camps were run by Jews every bit as murderous as you claim Josef Mengele
to have been, and some of them are currently hiding out in Israel today, wanted
by the legal authorities in Poland…Some are living in the USA. Each and every one
a mass murderer, installed in their bloody positions and exalted by Old Papa Joe
Stalin. Here is the name of one of the murderers currently wanted for questioning
in Poland: Shlomo Morel. Here is a quote from Shlomo, who was in charge of
one of the extermination camps in Poland:

“What the Germans couldn’t do in five years at Auschwitz, I’ve done in 5
months at Schwientochlowitz.” (An Eye for an Eye, page 107, John Sack)

Germans were made to wear swastikas on their backs and arms, as the Jews
were once compelled to wear the star of David. Though the murdered Germans
weren’t gassed, gassing would have be merciful compared to the torments and
tortures they were forced to endure until death granted them the boon of release.

What happened to the Germans was as I seem
to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you’re words
don’t make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand: The Nazis claimed it was
the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were
“getting their asses kicked” in the Soviet Union. Capisce?

Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it.

Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
That is simply _you’re_ being disingenous and putting words into his
mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand.

No. Beg to disagree. Mr. Feree, as we have all so often been told, says that the
Holocaust happened, because he saw it happen. he was here, he was there, he
was everywhere, and whatever SHAEF told him was good enough for him, and now
it ought to be good enough for us too. He saw Maidanek, he saw Auschwitz, he saw belsen,
he saw Buchenwald, he saw the human skin tattoos, which are now know to have
been goatskin, he saw the “Bitch of Buchenwald”, but didn’t realize that the SS
juduicial authorities had tried and executed her husband for crimes, murder among
them. He saw the “gas chambers”, but never did have it explained to him how exactly
they worked. He never saw any demonstrations. He only believed with the simple faith
of a choirboy.

Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies.
It seems we have two infallible people in this world: The Pope and the
Anti-Pope.

Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems.
(Also a not uncommon occurrance, btw.)

I had good teachers: Nizkor devotees. To the browser, stick around a
while and see how this works.

BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities
in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom. How aptly put. Why don’t you go tell the
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?

Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
them?

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.

Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.

The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden.

Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
amusing! Sherry’s _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.)

Listen, Mr. Marky Mark: The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned for the
figures released by the German authorities at the time of the bombing. The figure was
stated publicly on National News Services at least twice over the past 5 years. Believe
it if you want, or don’t if you don’t want. It is all the same to me. BTW, I already referred
you to the comments made by the Senior British Officer in charge of planning the whole
raid. If you choose to believ your source, go ahead. For the sake of the browsers,
however, the real figure was closer to 135,000, perhaps higher. There never was an
air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole history of modern warfare.

The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest
estimates as well as estimates at the time.

_Who’s_ “latest” estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum’s,
that’s for sure! As for “estimates at the time,” the Nazis origionally
claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
Communists claimed 350,000.

Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda.

You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.

http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001 Broken link

But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

I’m afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis.

The “citizens” were civilians. Your images are confused.

According to _Webster’s New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):

“…the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy
(Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
(Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)”

I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly _ignorant_ of
history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality?

And who classifies babes in arms as the “axis”-you?

In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler’s
unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don’t you tell us more about Poland…

[Mr. Belling’s boorish Nazi apologia snipped]

Censoring the truth again, Mark? People can look it up in the
previous post.
<yawn>

More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn’t even have the class to
declare war on Poland first.

Oh, really, Mr. Van, spare us your aged limburger cheese like rehash of allied
propaganda. We have all heard it and we are all bored with it. Tell it to your
grandchildren around a campfire.

the Anglo-American bombing
against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives.

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?

Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I’m not!

If not, then don’t include 6 million more.
>
> Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
> just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
> is only about Jews?

> > You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million
> > more.
>
> Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
snip
If _you_ claim
> that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
> prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
> of _proof_….)

No, YOU do. Where is it?
>
> > > Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being “pure military
> > > targets,” that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
> > > typically dishonest distortion by Mr. Belling.
> >
> > The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.
>
> Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, “legitimate military target”
> is by no means the equivalent to “pure military targets.” Nor, militarily
> speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
> be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
> has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
> _purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
> field.

Yawn. fart.
>
> > > Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> > > seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> > > were “legitimate military target[s].”
> >
> > This was not the case….
>
> Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
> to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
> industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
> indeed the case. Amuse me.

You have amused all of us enough for one afternoon, I think. Peddle your
jokes at the comedy store.
>
> > You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall “Bomber Harris”
> > before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.
>
> I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
> comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: “…Harris, who at least had the
> virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
> his memoirs, when he referred to the ‘destruction of factories’ as only ‘a
> bonus.’ (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.)
>
> I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
> strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
> you’re a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce.

Of course this is the only argument you can offer.

Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
> merciless.

Like you. Then don’t whine and complain if the nazis adopted a policy where masses
of Jews were forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their brothers and sisters
participation in the partisan war against Germany. What is good for the goose
is good for the gander. Thank you for legitimatizing Germany’s roundup of the
Jews.
>
> > > In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> > > (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> > > Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining “German morale, plus
> > > assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> > > and fouling it with refugees.” (Ibid.)
> >
> > Oh-so the way to “defoul the refugees” was to burn them alive?
>
> “Defoul the refugees,” Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
> their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
> would be frowned on by the SPCA….

The meaning was quite clear, Mark.
>
> > Is that it? Is this what you are offering us? Undermine “German morale”?
> > By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children? How quaint…..
>
> No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
> time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
> “smart” bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
> thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to “dehouse” the inhabitants and
> “pin point” bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
> a quarter mile of the target.

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
> lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
> “Lebensraum.”

Uh, ok, Mark.
>
> > > In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> > > since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> > > been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> > > (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
> >
> > And rightfully so.
>
> Ah, I’m glad to see that you’ve finally admitted that your are a Nazi
> apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one’s problem is the first step
> towrds recovery, I’m told.

Apparently you will never be cured.
>
> > If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
>
> And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
> They _did_ make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
> that it is. You’re proof of that.

And you are proof of the tota lirrationality of the so-called Holocaust story.
>
> > Don’t you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the
> > allies?
>
> What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The “crime” of destroying Nazism?

The blind can never see.
>
> > No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
> compromise your “special” status for the Jewish victims.
>
> What “special status” is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
> murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a “status” Jews share with far more
> Poles and Russians.

Really?
>
> > All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and
> > sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.
>
> Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
> insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly…

Who ever asked you to kow tow? It is I who refuse to kowtow to your
vapid list of lies and distortions..
>
> > > It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To
> > > establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the
> > > Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
> >
> > And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
>
> Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag…, er,
> demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
> suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
> pratfall, it won’t hurt so bad….

I have never been hurt from the contents of your comments, Mark. You only
hurt yourself….it must be true….you always hurt the one you love……
>
> > Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit
> > what you know to be a true fact.
>
> I’m now a “moral coward” This from a person who is so craven he hides
> behind a handle? (Pretending he’s a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
> And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
> Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?

You know as much about me as you know about the Holocaust-zilch.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> <wiping tears from eyes>

Keep wiping.
>
> You’re such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!

A am pleased to see you are so amused, Mr. V. Pleased indeed.
>
> > > Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> > > deniers’ Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> > > diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
> >
> > On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
> > tales.
>
> Deluded too….
>
> > > Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> > > hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion.
> >
> > There is no hate on my part.
>
> Suuuure there’s not. Uh huh. And bears don’t shit in the woods.

I wouldn’t know. I don’t hang around where bears shit.
>
> > I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group…
>
> Really? Prove it.
>
> > …and I number people of all creeds and races among my
> > most intimate friends and acquaintances.
>
> Really? Prove it.

Not today, Mark, not today.
>
> > You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>
> No, probably not. You’re too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
> _their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane.

And you are a judge of insanity? I take great satisfaction in knowing how deeply
my arguments hurt your cause. Now it is I who is laughing……and laughing…..
>
> > > For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> > > Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
> >
> > Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
> > as they are not biased.
>
> Suuuure they’re not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too.
>
> For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling’s increasingly irrelevant
> Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996 Broken link
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096 Broken link
This was really fun, Mark. Just like the old days. We must do this again some-
time soon!

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81364 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: H.G. Wells on Jewish ancestry
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:14:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>
> > “It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew’s ancestors
> >’never’ lived in Palestine ‘at all,’ which witnesses the power of
> >historical assertion over fact.”
>
> > (H. G. Wells, The Outline of History).
>
> >More quotes archived at GOAL: http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/ (Page doesn`t exist)
>
> Oh yeah, right, the site with the complete guide to Jewish Ritual
> Murder. I must wonder, though, what is quoted from Wells: the whole
> paragraph, or simply the words “never” and “at all”? If the former,
> why are those words in their own quotation marks? If the former, why
> can’t you supply the entire quote in Wells’s words? Not, or course,
> that any of this has relevance to this conference (I assume you’re
> trying to rehash the old Khazar khrap), but it is interesting how
> you disseminate dubious “quotes” without precise sources (what chapter
> of THE OUTLINE OF HISTORY, for instance?), as well as known forgeries
> such as the Gus Hall bit. (No, I’m not a fan of Hall. He’s a fool, a
> thug and a traitor, lacking the brains and scholarship of some of his
> fellow traitors like Aptheker. But there is no evidence that he ever
> said what you quoted him as saying.)

Miss Flower, why don’t you do a little research before you stick
your nose into a subject?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:27 PST 1996
Article: 81370 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Elie Wiesel
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:43:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
> Chuck Ferree wrote:
>
> Yeah sure!!! Who you gonna believe: Raven, the proven natsie liar, the
> pro-A. Hitler person, the denier of deniers, the guy what asks for
> money everytime he posts? Or Elie Wiesel, a Jewish victim of the Nazi
> perpetrated Holocaust and an eyewitness to what really happened during
> the Nazi years of terror. Eyewitness testimony is far better than
> speculation and bluffing with baloney.

> Greg Raven wrote:
> >
> > A Prominent False Witness: Elie Wiesel
> >
> > By Robert Faurisson

> This guy lies all the time. He is just another turkey who hates the
> Jewish people.
>
> Chuck

> > ELIE WIESEL won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a
> > witness to the Jewish “Holocaust,”
>
> ELIE WIESEL was a witness to the Holocaust.
>
> Where was Faurisson and Raven?

Are you implying Elie Wiesel never solicits for money?

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:28 PST 1996
Article: 81371 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a different perspective on Streicher.
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:39:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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[email protected] (Nizkor’s handler) writes:
Not that only one heavily researched and footnoted issue using
reputable sources was introduced in evidence against him. It appears
that his crime was researching the article and presenting the results.
What a crime, a hate crime, the exercise of free inquiry and freedom
of the press.

What an evil person to have found all of the material footnoted in
his evil article.

The May, 1934 issue of Der Sturmer was
entered into evidence as the “worst act of
anti-Semitism” committed by Streicher. This
entire issue was a feature of the centuries-old
accusation that secret sects of extremist
orthodox Jews would crucify a Christian child
during Passover, using the blood in a ritual
ceremony. This accusation is known among
Jews as “Blood Libel.”

Considering the number of weird and murderous
cults afflicting the United States since World War
II, Streicher’s charges have great credibility.

Not Allowed To Answer Inquisitors: Streicher
thoroughly researched this subject, citing many
sources with footnotes. His defense attorney
asked him to reply to the prosection’s charge that
he had no documentary proof that such crimes
were once practiced by certain Jews. Streicher
answered:

“The sources were given in that issue.
There was reference made to a book
written in Greek by a former Rabbi
who had been converted to
Christianity. There was reference to a
publication of a high clergyman of
Milan. Not even did Jews raise
objections to that book.

Ritual murder is referred to in court
files which are located in Rome. There
are pictures in it which show that in 23
cases, the Church itself has dealt with
the question. The Church (Catholic)
has canonized 23 non-Jews killed by
ritual murder.

Pictures of sculptures, that is, of stone
monuments were shown as
illustrations. Everywhere (in Der
Sturmer) the source was pointed
> out…But in this connection I should like
> to say, we never wanted to assert that
> all Jewry was ready now to commit
> ritual murders. But it is a fact that
> within Jewry there exists a sect which
> engaged in these murders. I have
> asked my council to submit to the
> Court a file from Pisek in
> Czechoslovakia, very recent
> proceedings. A court of appeal has
> confirmed a case of ritual murder.
> Thus, in conclusion I must say…”
>
> At this point Streicher’s testimony is cut off by
> Judge Jackson, who stated,
>
> “I object to this statement…He ought to
> be returned to his cell and any further
> statements that he wishes to make
> transmitted through his counsel to this
> court; he should be held in contempt of
> court.”
>
> Held in contempt for pointing out that his article was well
> researched and supported by external sources. What a “contemptable
> thing to do.
> =====
> http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html The Dark Web (Page doesn`t exist)
> Pages of Zionism
> http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html (Page doesn`t exist) Zundelsite
> http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ (Page doesn`t exist) to the light
> http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ (Page doesn`t exist) Student Revisionist Resource Site
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ (Page doesn`t exist) Revisionist Productions
> http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) Reflections upon the Holocaust
> http://flashback.se/~rislam/ (Page doesn`t exist) Radio Islam
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Leuchter Report
> http://www.hoffman-info.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) The Hoffman Report
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ (Page doesn`t exist) Greg Raven’s Website
> http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html (Page doesn`t exist) David Irving
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith)
> http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ (Page doesn`t exist) Be Wise as Serpents
> http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) L’Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
> d’Holocauste (also in English)
> http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ (Page doesn`t exist) Arthur R. Butz
> http://www.air-photo.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
> http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html (Page doesn`t exist) Adelaide Institute
>
>>>>To Nizkor’s “handler”:
Are you denying that Jews were never accused or convicted of
alleged Ritual Murder? It would seem that Streicher believed that
these accusations were true. From the earliest oprigins of the Hebrews
to Messina, New York in our own century, Jews have been accused of this crime.
Many authors of importance have written about it, such as H. Stract, Joshua
Trachtenberg, and Sir Richard Burton. Strack and Trachtenberg, both
Jewish, deny the charges, and Streicher and Burton disagree. You also
failed to note that this particular issue of the Stuermer was BANNED in Germany
on order of Adolf Hitler himself. Are you now suggesting that this article
justified the imposition of the death penalty on Julius Streicher?
Better luck next time.

From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:29 PST 1996
Article: 81390 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:47:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 432
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References: <[email protected]>
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