Wasn’t Grabner accused of murdering 3 million people at
Auschwitz? Yet, how could this be, seeing that he was only
the head of the so-called political department. Wasn’t Grabner
also under investigation by SS judicial authoritites for his
various abuses of position and authority within the camp, and
wasn’t he formally charged by the same SS authorities? Was
Grabner named in the affadavit submitted to the SS Judicial
Investigations committee by one Eleanor Hodyss, who also named
Hoess as his accomplice? And was not Hoess also under investigation
by the same authoritities, by order of Heinrich Himmler himself? Did not
Hans Stark also testifiy that if he didn’t throw in the pellets, that Grabner
or Hoess told him they would throw him the chamber as well? Just asking,
as I don’t happen to have the text of his testimony in front of me, and am
relying on memory.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:07 PST 1996
Article: 80429 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Umfallen” and deliberate mistranslation
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:26:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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All this quibbling! Of course, the real issue at hand here is not
whether “Umfallen” means “to die, or “collapse from exhaustion”.
In fact, it means the latter, and the use of “gefallen” means that
someone has died in action. The REAL issue at hand here is whether
Himmler ever uttered the words attributed to him at Posen. There
are, in fact, two versions of the same speech given at Posen, and
when comparing the two, one may see that there is a difference
in style and delivery. I recently heard the audio version of Himmler
making this alleged speech, and I must say that I was thoroughly
disappointed. The quality is horrendous, and I can see why one of
the SS officers allegedly present at this speech was incapable of
determining whether the voice in question was actually that of Himmler.
Oswald Pohl, who also claimed to be present at this speech, remarked
that he had no idea what Himmler was even talking about!
This speech is a very poor source to rely on in an attempt to prove that
the Nazis were methodically carrying out a program of deliberately calcu-
lated mass murder. Even if Himmler uttered these words, what makes this
speech any different from Ilya Ehrenburg’s exhortations to mass murder or
the hateful proclamations of Henry Morgenthau and Theodore Kaufmann?
People are always so quick to shout out evil personified when the subject
happens to be a “Nazi”, much as the Nazis attributed evil personified to
the shadowy figure of the “Jew”. Since over 50 years have elapsed since
the end of hostilities between the Axis and the Allies, I would think that
a more enlightened and non-biased approach to examining the historical
records would be in good order.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:08 PST 1996
Article: 80431 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:12:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 89
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing
at Belzec
[Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
———————————————————————-
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly>
that they had come from the
Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec…
Well, this is curious in itself, as most of the Jews were allegedly killed
at Auschwitz, not Belzec. It makes me question his source. At any rate,
this is second had information.
During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth,
Curiously, Wirth, disappeared from the pages of time, never to be
found again.
who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions.
Of course this report exists?
In order to write a report I had, however,
> first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
> spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
> morning.
>
> A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
> cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
> or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
> were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
> into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
> their shoes…
Mr. Keren can confirm that Jews were deported from these areas in
1942?
> After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
> women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
> shorn and they had to get undressed… The men went into another hut,
> where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
> women’s hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
> procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
> hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
> centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
> the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying “Hackenholt
> Foundation”, above which there was a star of David. The building was
> brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
> killed here…
>
> Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
> channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
> building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
> windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
> that the bodies could be removed. People were led from a corridor
> into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
> was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
> Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
> but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
> glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
> the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
> to the chambers opened. Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
> would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
> to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
> chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
> the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
> something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
> thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.
>
>>>>Well, this sounds horrific, but can it be confirmed independently by
evidence, as well as other statements by other witnesses? Also, how did
Pfannenstiel happen to make this statement?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:09 PST 1996
Article: 80433 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The tins were filled to the brim with blue granules’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:51:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>
> Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
> Krema I in Auschwitz
> [Quoted in “KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS”, p. 176]
> ————————————————————-
> … The “disinfectors” were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
> Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
> hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
> inscription “Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
> to be opened by trained personnel only!”. The tins were filled to
> the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
> opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
> were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
> of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
> started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
> death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.
Pery Broad is not the best of witnesses. As is customary in
cases of this type, he initially denied that people were ever
gassed at Auschwitz, then changed and said that people
were gassed but he didn’t have anything to do with it. He is
not credible.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:10 PST 1996
Article: 80435 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Some bodies fell out’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:09:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first
> gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW’s were murdered
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison Gas”, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 54]
> ——————————————————————-
> I was told that the people who had climbed into the truck were
> Russians who would otherwise have had to be shot. They were looking
> for a different way of killing them. We then went to another place,
> where we met the truck again. It was near the crematory oven. I can
> still remember that one could see through a peephole or a small
> window into the inside of the truck, which was lit up. One could see
> that the people were dead. The van was opened. Some bodies fell
> out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
> chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look which
> is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
who made these comments. If he was ever charged with crimes
himself, or if he “plea bargained” and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources. Aside from all that, I would
like to comment that the killing of human beings by means of “gas
vans” is a very POOR way to embark upon a program of mass murder.
How many of these vans could be built and put into effect? How many
victims could they accomodate-50-60 at most? I am surprised that
certain exterminationists continue to peddle this foolish story.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:11 PST 1996
Article: 80436 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I must state that most of them were gassed’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:04:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 115
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
[Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
———————————————————————-
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?
extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
time, because the facts that were being described seemed too
terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated,
I was very much shaken emotionally.
Well, what were these reports? Has anyone tracked them down? In
what year were they given and what exactly was said? I am curious
as it has been maintained that the world was uninformed about the
extermination of the Jews.
Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
gassed at Auschwitz?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
beings were being gassed and exterminated?
A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of
Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a
completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused
me and my family to be liquidated very quickly,
Well, this is contradictory in itself, as the word apparently WAS being spread.
Gerstein is also stated to have spread the news, yet “no one” believed him.
I find this incredible.
because the Gestapo
was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the
secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly
worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his
> closest friend about it,
Contradictory. So how did people know?
because experience taught us that anybody
who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the
> Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about
> Auschwitz.
And? Do we have examples of what rumors were spread and then
verified and then punished in a court of law? It was also stated by
the Bonn prosecutor’s office years ago that men who declined to
participate in the “final solution” were not compelled to do so.
> Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
> Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
> days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?
>
> A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
> commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
> and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
> masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the
> people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
> treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
> were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
> especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped
> like a normal soldier’s barracks with beds that had sheets on them,
> and well-functioning washrooms.
> Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
> beings?
>
> A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.
When? Where? And a complete description please.
>
> Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
> in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn’t quite clear as to why they were
> sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I’d like to put just a question or two
> to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital
> at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
> edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?
>
> A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
> were gassed.
Did he witness it?
> Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
> Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because
> of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?
>
> A. Also to be gassed.
Again, did he actually witness it?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:12 PST 1996
Article: 80437 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Sometimes entire transports were gassed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:11:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
> [Quoted from “Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert
> Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt”, By Bernd
> Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
> ———————————————————————
> The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
> order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
> were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
> transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
> selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
And what happened to Mr. Hofmann? Did he admit participating
in the gassing of people? If so, what is his description of the process?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:13 PST 1996
Article: 80438 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the motor was then switched on by Gotringer’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:39:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
> [Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
> Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
> —————————————————————-
> Usually the undressing went smoothly. Subsequently, the Jews were
> taken through the “tube” to Camp III – the real extermination
> camp. The transfer through the “tube” proceeded as follows: one
> SS man was in the lead and five or six Ukrainian auxiliaries were
> at the back hastening the Jews along. The women were taken through a
> barracks where their hair was cut off. In Camp III the Jews were
> received by an SS man… As I already mentioned, the motor was then
> switched on by Gotringer and one of the auxiliaries whose name I
> don’t remember. Then the gassed Jews were taken out.
Of course you have proof to support this man’s story, other
than more “eyewitness” testimonies?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:15 PST 1996
Article: 80442 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘It was in a compressed gas container’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:16:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 96
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I,
p. 876-886].
——————————————————————–
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
methods were the mercy deaths given?
A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
formalities were concluded – I need not repeat these formalities
here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there
killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).
Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?
A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen>
container, such as is used for welding – a hollow steel
container.
Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
chambers?
A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler’s
basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
photographing of the patients, which was only done for
scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
> Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
> were given?
>
> A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
> brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
> room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
> were dead.
>
> Q. Then what happened to the bodies?
>
> A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
> cremation and they were cremated.
>
> Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
> dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?
>
> A. Yes.
>
> Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?
>
> A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
>
> Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
> bath?
>
> A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
> thought that.
>
> Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
> clothes on or were they nude?
>
> A. No. They were nude.
>
> Q. In every case?
>
> A. Whenever I saw them, yes.
I have a few problems with this. If the proceedings
were photographed,
you can produce the films today, can’t you?
Without them, I do not find this
testimony credible at all. Also, if these people
were hopelessly insane or severely
retarded, what purpose would it serve to “trick”
them into thinking they were
going to take a shower? Knowing people who
have worked with the severely retarded before,
I asked them about this,
and it was their unanimous opinion that such a
ruse would have been totally unnecessary.
And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
why didn’t they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
etc. etc.?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 80454 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:19:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
> ———————————————————-
> We have – I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
> taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
> first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
> this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
> mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
> Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a
> matter of cleanliness.
And this proves what?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 80465 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the people inside were suffocated’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:46:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp
[Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
—————————————————————–
When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
[Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated. We were to
keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
to reckon with our families’ imprisonment and the death penalty…
The extermination camp was made up of the so-called “castle” and the
camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
been transported by lorry or railway were first brought…
When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer
Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
where the so-called “gas-van” was parked. The back door of the van
would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
> enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
> then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
> pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
> poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
> suffocated…
>
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
Conveniently, the only man who could have shed light on
this subject, Hans Bothmann, “hanged” himself while in
British custody……I would be curious to learn the fate of the
other men mentioned in this statement.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:17 PST 1996
Article: 80466 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the screams and groans of the people died away’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:48:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Hauptschrfuehrer Gustav Labs
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison gas, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 87]
> ———————————————————-
> Then Burstinger, who had reappeared from the cellar passage,
> came up to me. He ordered me to start the engine and to leave
> it running for about twelve minutes. I did what I was told,
> and a minute later I heard terrible screams and groans coming
> from the interior. I got frightened and jumped out of the
> driver’s cab. I realized that the exhaust had been directed
> to the interior of the van to kill the people inside. Bothmann*
> yelled at me, “Have you gone mad?”. He told me to get back
> behind the wheel. I did so and waited. I didn’t dare to do
> anything, because I was afraid of Bothmann. Gradually, after
> some minutes, the screams and groans of the people died away.
>
> * SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hans Bothmann.
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann-who conveniently “hanged”
himslef while in British custody in Heide, 1946. How curious it
is that most, if not all of the people who received eventual blame
for the “extermination” of the Jews, all disappeared mysteriously
or else “committed suicide” while in custody.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:18 PST 1996
Article: 80467 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the thirty to forty women were dead’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:50:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of SS Scharfuhrer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial,
> Dusseldorf
> [Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
> Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32].
> ————————————————————–
> ….We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at
> least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation
> and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.
>
> I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the
> ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The
> chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with
> measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.
>
> Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out. If my memory
> serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas
> chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place
> close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the
> above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the
> women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in
> motion. The motor functioned first in neutral. Both of us stood by
> the motor and switched from “Neutral” (Freiauspuff) to “Cell” (Zelle),
> so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the
> chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was
> unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later
> the thirty to forty women were dead.
>
> <end quote>
>
> -Danny Keren.
Of course one cannot judge an event or an entire trial on the
basis of this flimsy passage.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:19 PST 1996
Article: 80468 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘there was no longer any escape’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:04:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
> [Quoted in “‘The Good Old Days’” – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
> Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
> ————————————————————-
> Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
> smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to
> get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
> Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
> the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
> one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
> into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
> the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
> confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
> to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
> extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
> led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
> any escape.
And where is this witness today? Neither Mr. Keren, nor “The
Good Old Days” tells us. In fact, “The Good Old Days” title
ought to be replaced with “The Good Old Lies”. Here is a
curiosity to ponder. On page 241 of the same book is a photo
which is captioned:
]
“Lorenz Hackenholt operated the gassing installations in Belzec.”
Now, the curious thing about this photo shows that the person depicted
is NOT wearing the uniform of an SS man. He appears to be wearing
a police uniform of some type-probably Gestapo, and he is wearing
the Nazi eagle on his breast. This was not an SS uniform. Also, in order
to compare statements, let us compare a statement by SS Mann Kurt
Franz, who was at Treblinka:
“Basically I have never done wrong to anyone nor would I ever have
wished to do a wrong. I vehemently deny these attacks against me.
I state that the entire thing is a sham. I believe that I am now being
maligned for the sole reason that I was a member of the SS.”
(The Good Old Days, page 249.)
After all that I have read and posted on this newsgroup, I believe him.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:19 PST 1996
Article: 80475 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘That would be more pleasant than to let them starve to death’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:15:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd51-023.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Letter from Hoppner, higher SS and Police leader in the Warthegau, to
> SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, July 16 1941
> [Documents of Destruction – R. Hilberg, Quadrangle Books, Chicago, 1971,
> p. 87]
> ——————————————————————-
> Enclosed is a memorandum on the results of various discussions held
> locally in the office of the Reich Governor…
>
> Subject: Solution of the Jewish question
> 4) This winter there is a danger that not all of the Jews can be fed
> anymore. One might weigh honestly, if the most humane solution
> might not be to finish off those of the Jews who are not employable
> by means of some quick-working device. At any rate, that would be
> more pleasant than to let them starve to death.
> 5) For the rest, the proposal was made that in this camp all the Jewish
> women, from whom one could still expect children, should be
> sterilized so that the Jewish problem may actually be solved
> completely with this generation.
Perhaps Mr. Keren will now supply us with a copy of
Eichmann’s reply from this alleged communication from
a man who had no authority to implement policies and
directed his letter to a minor official like Eichmann?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:20 PST 1996
Article: 80476 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:17:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Otto Ohlendorf, chief of Einsatzgruppe D, testifies about Nazi
> mass murder in the occupied USSR. Source: IMT Vol. IV, testimony
> starts at page 311.
SNIP
I wonder why Mr. Keren wasted our time with comments
>from a man who admitted that he had only been present
at two mass executions?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:21 PST 1996
Article: 80477 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The bodies were thrown into the antitank ditches’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:20:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Wilhelm Findeisen testifies about a gassing in Kiev
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison Gas”, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 62]
> ——————————————————————
> The gas van was deployed for the first time in Kiev. My job was just
> to drive the vehicle. The van was loaded by the local staff. About
> forty people were loaded inside. There were men, women, and children.
> I was supposed to tell the people they were going to be put to work.
> The people were pushed up a short ladder and into the van…
>
> I drove through the town to the antitank ditches. There the doors of
> the vehicle were opened. Prisoners had to do this. The bodies were
> thrown into the antitank ditches. I am sure that it was in Kiev; I
> myself took part in this operation.
This sounds like an utterly contrived “confession”. “I am sure
that I was in Kiev…..” How nice. 40 people were gassed….quite
the “mass murder” program, wasn’t it? It sounds like a waste of
time to me, as well as an utterly preposterous story. From the same
people who brought you “Soviet Def Comedy Jam” in previous
posts which can and should be accessed in deja News under rblackmore.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:21 PST 1996
Article: 80478 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:24:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
> [Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
> Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
> ——————————————————————
> During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
> The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
> where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
> later burned.
>
> About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
> were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
> called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don’t remember his name…
> These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
> chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
> was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
> my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver…
>
> All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
> about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
> the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
> Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
> Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts…
>
> The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
> stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
> room opened the gas chambers from the other side.
So Mr. Keren’s latest ploy is to convict the Germans with
their own “testimony” which is as incredible as all the other
eyewitness “testimony” I have examined over the past few months.
The “survivors” had an ax to grind, and the Germans were often
tortured, threatened, plea bargained with, and intimidated into
giving damning testimony, which, after it is examined critically,
turns out to be unsupportable.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:22 PST 1996
Article: 80486 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:12:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942:
> [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 – L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948,
> p. 147-148]
> ———————————————————–
> Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government
> [Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure
> is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely.
> Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about
> 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
> can be used for forced labor.
Whether these statements are accurate or not is hardly germane to
the so-called Holocaust, as Goebbels had no authority to issue orders
to either the SS or the Gestapo. This excerpt could even have been
an interpolation due to the curious circumstances under which the
diary was found. In any event, Goebbels was not a witness to any of
the events in question.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:23 PST 1996
Article: 80490 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘They were then pushed into the chamber’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:14:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing
> in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison Gas”, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 187]
> —————————————————————–
> At the end of February 1945 I was called with Dr. Trommer to the
> office of the camp commandant, Sturmbannfuehrer Suhren. Suhren
> informed us that he had received an order from Reichsfuehrer Himmler
> to liquidate all the women who were sick or unable to walk. Before
> giving us this information, he asked us how many sick women there
> were in the camp. I explained to the commandant that I had been glad to
> leave Auschwitz and would not like to repeat that experience. He then
> told me that Sturmbannfuehrer Sauer, deputy to the camp commandant, had
> been put in charge of the execution.
>
> I witnessed a gassing. A hundred and fifty women, all at once, were
> pushed into the gas chamber. Hauptscharfuehrer Moll ordered the women
> to undress and told them that a delousing was going to take place. They
> were then pushed into the chamber, and the door was bolted. A male
> prisoner, wearing a gas mask, climbed up onto the roof and, through
> an opening which he closed again immediately afterward, threw a can of
> gas into the room. I heard groans and moans. After two or three minutes,
> there was silence in the chamber.
Of course this description disagrees with other statements which
state that the gas was always brought up in a Red Cross ambulance
and that SS men threw the pellets down, not the prisoners. However,
all is fair and game in the Holocaust. As to Suhren, it was impossible
to find any trace of what happened to him.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 80498 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:11:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
In message <[email protected]> – ibokor <[email protected]>
writes:
Gord McFee made a valiant attempt to inject a note of
reason into the threads with “rblackmore”:
The fact that European Jewry was not exterminated has nothing to do
with
whether the Nazis _tried_ to exterminate European Jewry. But you
knew that.
rblackmore immediately proved the futility of
such endeavours:
I have to disagree with that one completely.
If it had been their intention to exterminate the Jews
within their sphere of control, then there would not
have been a survivor left. The very fact that only
25% of France’s Jewish population was ever deported
disproves your thesis.
d.A. catches on:
> :>I get it!
> :>
> :>The fact that Nazi Germany did not win the war on
> :>the Eastern Front proves that there was no war on
> :>”the Eastern Front”.
> :>
> :>The fact that after a siege lasting over 900 days
> :>Leningrad could still not be captured by Nazi Germany’s
> :>forces proves that there was no siege of Leningrad.
> :>Gee, this is easy!!
>
> “Facile” might be the better expression. };->
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
As usual you ignored an uncomfortable situation. No problem.
People see through the ruse easily. Facile might be a better expression!
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 80502 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Jew, AND SO WAS MARX
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:18:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Robert) writes:
> [email protected] (Guy Suzi) wrote:
>
> >Chris DeNeve <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>MICHAEL SMITH wrote:
snip
Fact is, Hitler wasn’t Jewish, but Marx was, although he had
a few unkind words to say about the jewish people that Hitler
would have loved to have quoted. Who knows? maybe he did!
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:25 PST 1996
Article: 80504 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:09:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
> [Documents on the Holocaust – Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
> NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi
> Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
> —————————————————————
> One way or another — I will tell you quite openly — we must finish
> off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
> again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
> shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
> Jew of Europe will have met his end….
>
> But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
> be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
> why are you making all this trouble? We don’t want them either, not in
> Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
> Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
> considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
> find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
> the whole structure of the Reich…
These statements by Frank are really irrelevant to the holocaust, as
Frank had no authority to issue orders to either the SS or gestapo.
In fact, as one of my earlier posts proved, Frank only heard of the
alleged “holocaust” after reading of it in a foreign newspaper, and then
approached Hitler about it, who assured him that the report was full
of malicious lies. See Frank’s testimony at Nuremberg. One again,
Mr. Keren proves nothing except his astounding agility in distorting
and contorting.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:25 PST 1996
Article: 80505 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:13:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] Diaries, February 14 1942
> [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 – L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948,
> p. 86]
> —————————————————————-
> World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as
> Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to
> clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish
> sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that
> has now overtaken them. Their destruction will now go hand in hand
> with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process
> with cold ruthlessness.
And? What is this supposed to prove even if it is accurate?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:26 PST 1996
Article: 80510 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Bug in the System Known As Revisionism
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:44:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Anonymous) writes:
> The Bug in the System Known As Revisionism
>
> The revisionists didn’t say that Hitler did anything wrong.
Whoever mentioned Hitler in all of this?
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:27 PST 1996
Article: 80514 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness – Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:04:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
>
> Material from Institute for Historical Review archives.
>
> Rudolf Hoss
Let’s not forget that Maximillian Grabner “confessed” to murdering 3 MILLION
people at Auschwitz.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:28 PST 1996
Article: 80565 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I must state that most of them were gassed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:51:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848465679@access2>
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
> >Again, did he actually witness it?
>
> Again, what’s your point, Jane?
My point to you is that you are a mindless slave.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 06:03:29 PST 1996
Article: 80584 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘the motor was then switched on by Gotringer’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:06:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (John Morris) writes:
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
[Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
—————————————————————-
[snip]
Of course you have proof to support this man’s story, other
than more “eyewitness” testimonies?
How about this:
In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been
located, the commission’s team of 30 excavation workers reportedly
found “human remains, partially in the process of decay,” and an
unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5
meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying
photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones.
Poland’s “Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes”
reported that “large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among
> which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of
> decomposing tissues,” were found in the five acre (two hectare)
> burial area during an examination of the site shortly after the end
> of the war.
>
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
While it appears that you have answered my question, you have not.
The findings of the “Polish Extraordinary Commission” are about as credible
as their mentor’s “The Soviet Extraordinary Commission” of which I posted
many humorous examples in previous posts entitled, “Soviet Def Comedy
Jam”. Even if what was written is true, one would have to confirm cause
of death of the victims. Onne simply can’t assume the cause of death.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 09:19:17 PST 1996
Article: 80611 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lanzmann, kaputt!
Date: 20 Nov 1996 04:04:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848031589@access5>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> Jean-Francois Beaulieu <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > The 20 october 1985, page H-17, Lanzmann explain how he filmed Suchomel:
> > he brough with him a woman, and she hide a camera in a bag. There was a
> > little hole in the bag. This is his version. It is thus impossible to
> > film from 3 different distances and get a closed picture of the map in
> > such a case.
>
> Why? A picture of a map could obviously be inserted afterwards. A woman is
> capable of moving herself. What is “impossible”?
>
> >Obviously Lanzmann lied.
>
> Obviously to whom?
To anyone with a brain capable of thinking. Lanzmann
is a liar.
>
> > If he had sue the millionaire Lanzmann, the last one would have claim:
> > Oh yeah? and you stated yourself that you didn’t want to be recognize,
> > to bad that I filmed you.
>
> Excuse me, but who said Lanzmann was a millionaire? In what currency?
Perhaps you can tell us what he is worth?
>
> Your pathetic wriggling certainly justifies the previous posts about
> your attitude.
Your pathetic wriggling couldn’t even pass for dancing.
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 10:25:46 PST 1996
Article: 80615 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘they were sent direct from the platform to the gas chamber’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:08:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Stanislawa Starotska
> [Quoted in “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
> Company, 1949, page numbers follow]
> ———————————————————————–
> p. 418:
snip
>
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
Thanks for broaching this one. I will get to it soon.
From [email protected] Wed Nov 20 10:25:47 PST 1996
Article: 80616 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:18:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan,
October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals –
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS – P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990,
p. 469]
———————————————————————-
I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It’s one of those things it is easy to talk about, “the Jewish
race is being exterminated”, says one party member, “that’s quite
clear, it’s in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we’re doing
it, exterminating them”. And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
> has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
> what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
> 1,000. To have stuck it out and at the same time – apart from
> exceptions caused by human weakness – to have remained decent fellows,
> that is what has made us hard. This is a page of glory in our history
> which has never been written and is never to be written.
>
> I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
> never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
> the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
> solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
> eradicating the men – so to speak killing or ordering them killed –
> and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
> our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
> cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.
Back to Posen again! This is hardly conclusive evidence of an
extermination plan. There are, in fact, 2 versions of this alleged speech
and both of them differ in content, tone, and style, even thought they were
given only 2 days apart. The recording said to have been made of this
“secret speech” is unconvincing and does not correspond with Himmler’s
hand written notes of the same, which survived the war and may now be seen
at the Smithsonian. The “damaging” excerpts of a very POOR quality recording
could be the work of a clever interpolater. The circumstances under which
these recordings were found are highly suspicious. Many of the Generals
who attended these speeches did not remember that himmler had even made
such comments and others did not believe that the voice on the recording
was that of Himmler. So, back to the drawing board, Dan.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 80635 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘The Jews from two of these transports were gassed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:34:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
[Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
—————————————————————-
Snip
. Brack stated that the euthanasia
> programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
> detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
> Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
beings. Better luck next time.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 80636 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:05:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
> the “Euthanasia” (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
> [Quoted in “The Hadamar Trial”, p. 87]
> —————————————————————–
> Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
> 1940, in August, 1940?
>
> A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
> from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
> me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
> explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
> incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
> Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
> to the Gemeinde Stiftung.
>
> […]
>
> Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?
>
> A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
> of it.
>
> Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?
>
> A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.
>
> Q. What was done during that period?
>
> A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
> Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
> chambers and killed there.
He was told just doesn’t cut it. We need more proof than that.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:39 PST 1996
Article: 80648 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Horse’s Mouth
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:49:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
This is from the text of a speech by Adolf Hitler given on February 24,
1943, on the Anniversary of the founding of the NSDAP. The translation was
provided by the Nazis themselves, and it is quoted in an OSS report from
Dr. Walter Langer to Col. William J. Donovan. The complete text of it will
be available on Nizkor soon.
I quote Hitler:
“The same joint front of enemies we had to face in Germany now faces us
again as an alliance between Jewish bankers of New York, the Jewish
plutocratic ruling caste of London and the Jews in Moscow’s Kremlin.”
Furthermore, “Above all, this war demonstrates incontrovertibly the
complete identity of plutocracy and Bolshevism, as well as the eternal
unchanging aim of all Jews which
is to despoil nations and convert then into slaves.”
(OSS report says: In both of the German versions he has much more to say
about the Jewish menace than is included in the AP text. He is liberal in
his prophecies and as the war goes on, one nation after another will
realize the Jewish menace and)
“…just as the German people, realizing this dangr, successfully fought
the Jewish enemy at home and is now about to finish them off once and for
all, just so other nations will become increasingly conscious of their true
selves as the war goes on and will finally make common cause against the
> race which works for the destruction of them all.”
>
> Now: would one of those why deny the Holocaust please explain to me what
> the phrase “finish them off once and for all” means?
>
> Sure sounds to me like Hitler is bragging about the total destruction of
> the Jews. If so, your arguments all fall down, don’t they?
>
> Sara
> “I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
Whether this report is accurate or not is open to question,
but the fact remains that the jews were far from finished
off in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. In fact, Jews
seem to have more influence today than at any other time
during their long and turbulent history.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:40 PST 1996
Article: 80654 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:20:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
> >> the “Euthanasia” (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
> >> [Quoted in “The Hadamar Trial”, p. 87]
> >> —————————————————————–
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?
> >>
> >> A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
> >> of it.
> [snip]
>
> >He was told just doesn’t cut it. We need more proof than that.
>
> A facsimile of Reich justice minister Gu”rtner’s copy of the initial
> order for the euthanasia program, with Hitler’s HANDWRITTEN signature plus
> Gu”rtner’s own handwritten note at the bottom, may be seen opposite the
> title page of Friedlander, Henry: “The Origins of Nazi Genocide: From
> Euthanasia to the Final Solution” [University of North Carolina Press,
> 1995].
> Does that help?
>
> Posted/emailed.
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
Yes, it does, and I have seen the same. At least one person is still
capable of an honest answer here.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 80657 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please cite your sources
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:09:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:00:04 -0500, [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy)
> wrote:
>
> > Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> > [email protected] Co-Webmaster of https://nizkor.org/
>
> I have a serious question for you “Co-Webmaster”. How does it feel
> do discover you have been working nothing for a synagogue and McVay
> was lying to you all along? Or did you know it all along and were
> lying to us?
>
> It would be desirable for you to answer both questions but one or
> the other will be sufficient.
> =====
> http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Dark Web
> Pages of Zionism
> http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html (Page doesn`t exist) Zundelsite
> http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ (Page doesn`t exist) to the light
> http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ (Page doesn`t exist) Student Revisionist Resource Site
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/(Page doesn`t exist) Revisionist Productions
> http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) Reflections upon the Holocaust
> http://flashback.se/~rislam/ (Page doesn`t exist) Radio Islam
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Leuchter Report
> http://www.hoffman-info.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) The Hoffman Report
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ (Page doesn`t exist) Greg Raven’s Website
> http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html (Page doesn`t exist) David Irving
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith)
> http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ (Page doesn`t exist) Be Wise as Serpents
> http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) L’Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
> d’Holocauste (also in English)
> http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ (Page doesn`t exist) Arthur R. Butz
> http://www.air-photo.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
> http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html (Page doesn`t exist) Adelaide Institute
McVay working for a synagogue? NO! I demand proof!
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 80665 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:21:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.96.56
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Giwer wants to kill people who disagree
with him about historical facts
—————————————
Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to
kill me himself.
Score one for “revisionist support for freedom of speech”.
Needless to say, no “revisionist” has denounced Giwer
for all of this.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism
[Giwer writes to me]
# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism
# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.> #
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism
[Giwer writes to me]
# May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your
# apart. May you know death from drowning.
# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the
# end of time and from then into eternity.
> <end quotes>
> -Danny Keren.
It is curious that you ask for support and/or condemnation from what
you call “revisionists”, Dan. Do you really expect people whom you insult
as “Nazi-boys” or “Scumbags” to rush to your defense? You are living
outside of reality if you ever thought otherwise. In fact, if you had treated
those who disagree with you with a bit more courtesy, perhaps a few
people would have spoke up in your defense. You have fouled your own
bed. Don’t complain if you have to lie in it.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:42 PST 1996
Article: 80674 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auswanderung nach Palestina
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:39:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 100
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (ibokor) writes:
Recently a poster to this group suggested that
Hitler’s *real* plan was to arrange for the
Jewish population of Germany to migrate to Palestine, freely and taking with
them all their belongings “without let or hindrance”.
A look at the record casts doubts upon this
suggestion.
For example, if one turns to
“Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden im NS-Staat”
2. Auflage
Hrsg J. Walk
C.F.Mueller Verlag, Heidelberg, 1996
ne finds:
I 229 (p.48)
28.3.33 RWM RdErl
Devisenbestimmung fuer Auswanderer:
Den Auswanderern nach Palaestina werden folgenden
Devisenerleichterungen gewaehrt:
1. Devisenzuteilung von 1000 Pfund Sterling als Vorzeigegeld.
2. Einzahlung — auf Sonderkonto I — von 15000 RM uebersteigenden
beitraegen. 15000 RM werden zur Gruendung einer Existenz in
Palaestina als notwendig betrachtet.
3. Einzahlung — auf Sonderkonto II — von Beitraegen bis zu
50000 RM.
Die Einzahlung auf die Sonderkonten dienen die Finanzierung des
Exports deutscher Waren nach Palaestina
[InfoBl Nr 11 15.9.33
CV Nr 34 7.9.33
Bay.Isr.Ztg. 1933 S. 177-279 (T)]
I 339 (p.70)
2.2.34 RStDev[I 3918/34 – RE 8/34] Erl
> Auswanderung:
> Beschraenkungen fuer den Export von Vermoegensguetern
> und auslaendischer Waehrung aus dem Reich.
> Die Bestimmungen fuer Auswanderer bleiben wirksam.
> [RStBl S.158-160]
> I 343 (p.71)
> 13.2.34 RStDev[I 5278 Nr. 12/34] RdSchr
> Auswanderung:
> Juden, die nach Palaestina auswandern, erhalten 1000 Pfund
> Sterling zugeteilt. Der Betrag ist hoeher als die
> Zuteilung an Auswanderer nach anderen Laendern, weil die
> Erteilung eines Zertifikats fuer die Einwanderung in
> Palaestina von dem Nachweis des Besitzes dieser Summe
> abhaengt. Die Zuteilung ist auch einer mehrkoepfigen
> Familie nur einmal zu bewilligen.
> [RstBl S.192
> InfoBl Nr.3 27.3.24]
> I 409 (p.84)
> 23.6.34 RStDev[I 21299/34(Rderl Nr.59/34)] RdErl
> Auswanderung: Die Zuteilung von auslaendischer Waehrung
> Auswanderer aus Deutschland wird von 10000 auf 2000 RM
> herabgesetzt. Darueber hinaus ist nur eien mittelbare Transferierung
> zulaessig.
> [RStBl S.783f.]
> These suggest that while Jews wishing to emigrate to
> Palestine were given access to the minimum funds
> required to obtain an entry permit for settlement,
> it was not permitted for them or their families
> to take their goods, chattels and personal estates
> with them. As the figures I recently posted indicate,
> if there had been a policy of assisting Jewish emigration
> to Palestine, then the laws, decrees and currency regulations
> and restrictions enacted and/or decreed undermined that
> policy entirely, as the above already show.
>
> d.A.
Well, I disagree with your assessment. Whether the Jews were
encouraged to emigrate to Palestine, Britain, America, or Madagascar,
they were not permitted to take goods and chattels with them. This
has nothing to do with the fact that the nazis both desired and
encouraged the Jews to leave Germany and Europe. In fact, if
more of them had left prior to the outbreak of the war, less of them would have
been deported to the east. As it is, less than 25% of France’s Jews were
deported, and less than 50% of Hungary’s and much less of Italy’s,
who was an axis partner. In addition, the millions of german civilians
compelled to leave their ancestral homelands during and after 1945 were
also not permitted to take goods with them either. Times were hard
for everyone.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:43 PST 1996
Article: 80676 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Been Fun
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:40:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <Pine.A32.3.95.961113214737.46585B-100000@homer25.u.washington.edu>
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> Kimberley Ahlf <[email protected]> writes:
> I wanted to tell you all that I gotta go for a while, not that I will be
> particularly missed, but because I wanted to make sure that if Kurt
> Stele (Brian Smith?) ever comes out of hiding to address my criticism of
> his ideas (or, heaven forbid, ever produce the many pieces of “evidence”
> he has promised to provide) that my silence can be correctly attributed
> to my no longer reading this newsgroup. I’ll be off on a project for a
> while so I won’t have the hours to spend in picking appart his illogic.
>
> If he ever does reply to my last posts, maybe one of you good souls out
> there could see fit to respond in my absence. I know I can at least count
> on Chuck to put in a good showing. ?
>
> Which reminds me: There’s some bad news for all of you ‘deniers’ out
> there. I have it on good authority that Chuck Ferree is still in excellent
> health, which means for some time into the future your lies will have to
> contend with a man who was there when it happened, who saw the evidence of
> the holocaust first hand; on many occassions and in many locations.
>
> You still have many years to go before your racist ideology can compete
> freely against factual history; free of the burden of having to
> explain-away the living witnesses like Chuck.
>
> Sorry. ?
>
> -ODB
Huh?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 80679 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:27:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Kurt Stele) writes:
> On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:12:16 GMT, [email protected] (John
> Morris) wrote:
>
> >In <[email protected]>, Matt Giwer posting as [email protected]
> >(Leprechaun) wrote:
>
> >> In fact it is so prevalent in holohuggery that it is the rational
> >>first assumption in any matter regarding it.
> >
> >Given that your reply is unresponsive to the issue under discussion, I
> >can only assume that you mean simply to disrupt the conversation. Just
> >remember, you have disrupted the discussion for everybody.
>
> Go to hell asshole. How’s that for an interruption.
>
> >Very good. You have demonstrated once again that “revisionists” are
> >loudmouths who have no facts and no arguments, just wild accusations.
> >You have demonstrated once again that, for Matt Giwer, free speech
> >means only Matt Giwer and his opinions shall be heard.
>
> Got to get rid of that free speech don’t we. Make it just like in
> Germany and France where if you differ with another’s (fraudulent)
> view of history, you “get in trouble.”
>
> Kurt Stele
>
> “[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of “Holocaust survivors”] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies.”
>
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.
So! Suchomel was portrayed by an actor?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 80685 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘It was in a compressed gas container’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:15:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848468068@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
[email protected] writes:
I have a few problems with this. If the proceedings
were photographed,
you can produce the films today, can’t you?
No, Jane. Sometimes criminals destroy or hide evidence of their
crimes. An intelligent little girl would have figured this out for
herself. Try thinking a little harder before posting next time.
Sometimes professional liars like yourself continuously distort
the truth, Mary. You can hide it in the closet all you like, but
eventually, your little secret slips out.
Without them, I do not find this
testimony credible at all.
That’s not surprising; I don’t recall you ever finding evidence of
Nazi atrocities “credible at all.” That’s why we call you a denier.
Who is “we” Mary? Is someone employing the dismal likes of
you, Miss Flower?
Also, if these people
were hopelessly insane or severely
retarded, what purpose would it serve to “trick”
them into thinking they were
going to take a shower? Knowing people who
have worked with the severely retarded before,
I asked them about this,
and it was their unanimous opinion that such a
ruse would have been totally unnecessary.
Ah yes. Who, specifically, were your experts on this subject?
Whoever they were or are, they are more credible than the
nonsense you apparently believe in with such religious ardour,
Miss Flower.
> Did they think that saying “Please go into this room so we can
> gas you to death” would have made the job simpler?
For you, perhaps.
>
> >And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
> >why didn’t they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
> >etc. etc.?
>
> There are lots of ways to kill people. Some are more efficent than
> others. What is perfectly acceptable on a smaller scale may not look
> so good on a larger scale. Again, Janie, try to think a little before
> making yourself look so stupid by posting moronic questions. (Yes, j
> I’m afraid that there really is such a thing as a stupid question, even
> if your teachers have told you otherwise.)
Not are there only stupid questions, but stupid answers as well, and
yours always go to the head of the class, Miss Flower. Are you blushing
with pride, or crimson with shame. Naughty little girl, let her knickers down….
>
>>>>
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:45 PST 1996
Article: 80703 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More lies and tortured confessions?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:47:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> Here are two actual excerpts. I did not make them up.
>
> I would like to ask the revisionists: could this be a true testimony
> from a member of the Einsatzgruppen, or must this be anti-German
> propaganda or a confession extracted by torture? What are your reasons
> for your answer?
>
> “[S]eeing a baby … crawling away from a ditch already filled with
> dead and dying villagers, [he] seized the child by the leg, threw it
> back in the pit, and shot it.”
> I would like to ask the revisionists: could this be an authentic quote
> from Heinrich Himmler or must it be a Soviet forgery? What are your
> reasons for your answer?
>
> “[I]f your son is killed by those babies you’ll cry at me, ‘Why
> didn’t you kill those babies that day?’”
> —
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
What does this refer to, may I ask?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:46 PST 1996
Article: 80719 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I have to agree with Goldhagen
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:31:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.96.56
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
> Hitler’s film cameraman took a lot of color photographs, and he
> described how he went and actually saw a mass shooting of Jews on the
> eastern front. It happened because, the evening before, Heinrich
> Himmler said, “Mr. Franz, how would you like to go and witness a mass
> shooting tomorrow morning? We’re going to be shooting a few thousand
> Jews.”
>
> And this photographer said, “Yes, sure I’d love to go along.” An
> American wouldn’t have said that. An American, I think, would have
> said “Mr. Himmler, tomorrow is a bad time for me. Any other day of
> the week, I’d love to come and watch what you want to show me.”
>
> I don’t know, but the Germans seem to be of a different mentality.
> I’m afraid I have to agree to a certain extent with Daniel Goldhagen,
> whose book suggests that the German mentality is somewhat different.
> It’s not going to make me friends, of course.
> —
> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> [email protected] Co-Webmaster of https//nizkor.org/
This is an absurd story. What were these Jews allegedly shot for?
It seems that I heard this nonsense on a televison documentary
recently. At any rate, people, including Americans seem to have
a fascination with death and executions….simply examine old photos
emanating from the south when a black person was lynched. You will
invariably see a mob. That’s why it was called a lynch mob. Among
the faces of the spectators you will often see young children brought
to the site by their parents. Sometimes they are seen munching on snacks.
Whenever there is a public execution, it seems that man’s morbid curiosity
takes over, and people flock to view the execution. Remember the mobs
of people during the French Revolution, who appeared at the beheading of the
french nobility, yelling for more bloodshed. It is the same in every nation and
every country. If Eichmann had been hanged publicly, I know that mobs of
Israelis would have shown up to applaud and revel in his death throes.
Do not the Jews to this day celebrate the feast of Purim, banging images
of the deceased Haman together and hanging him in effigy?
to view the execution. So, please, Mr. McCarthy, get serious.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:46 PST 1996
Article: 80722 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:23:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
> in Poland, urging them to write home
> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
> ———————————————————————-
> In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
> of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
> Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
> hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
> It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
> picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
> lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
> Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
> course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
> year’s time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
> help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
> necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
> right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
> follow us to do?
And what is this supposed to prove?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:47 PST 1996
Article: 80729 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I only gassed them’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:05:10 GMT
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison Gas”, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
> ———————————————————————-
> On orders from my department, I too drove a gas-van from Berlin to
> Minsk. These vans had been constructed with a lockable cargo
> compartment, like a moving van.
>
> I was detailed with the gas-van to about twelve convoys of arriving
> Jews. It was in 1942. There were about a thousand Jews in each
> convoy. With each arrival I made five or six trips with my van.
> Some of the Jews were shot. I myself never shot a single Jew; I
> only gassed them.
> A ghetto operation took place in the autumn of 1943. I was put into
> action only once with the gas-van. I made three trips with it to the
> execution site. I gassed about 150 to 180 people.
When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:48 PST 1996
Article: 80756 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:20:13 GMT
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Giwer wants to kill people who disagree
with him about historical facts
Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to
kill me himself.
Score one for “revisionist support for freedom of speech”.
Needless to say, no “revisionist” has denounced Giwer
for all of this.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism
[Giwer writes to me]
# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism
# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.> #
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.
> From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
> Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism
>
> [Giwer writes to me]
>
> # May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your
> # apart. May you know death from drowning.
>
> # And may you live to suffer all again and again until the
> # end of time and from then into eternity.
>
> <end quotes>
> -Danny Keren.
It is curious that you ask for support and/or condemnation from what
you call “revisionists”, Dan. Do you really expect people whom you insult
as “Nazi-boys” or “Scumbags” to rush to your defense? You are living
outside of reality if you ever thought otherwise. In fact, if you had treated
those who disagree with you with a bit more courtesy, perhaps a few
people would have spoke up in your defense. You have fouled your own
bed. Don’t complain if you have to lie in it.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:49 PST 1996
Article: 80823 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Nazis Punished For Killing Jews’? I
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:35:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Summary: “Revisionist” Lies About “Nazis Having
Been Punished For Killing Jews”
———————————————–
Recently, some “revisionists” have claimed that various
Nazis have been “punished for killing Jews”, which “proves
that it is not possible that there was an extermination
policy, for if there was, how come the Nazis punished people
for killing Jews?”.
Some “examples” were given, among them:
1) Amon Goeth. One “revisionist” (posting under the alias of
“rblackmore”) claimed that Goeth was “executed by the SS
for killing Jews”. An outright lie, of course; Goeth was
tried and hanged by the Poles after the war.
2) Dr. Sigmund Rascher. “rblackmore” claimed he was executed
by the SS for killing Jews. Another outright lie; Rascher
conducted his murderous medical experiments for a long time,
with the full support of the Nazi leadership (mostly Himmler).
He was arrested and executed for a completely different
reason, namely, illegal adoption of children.
Hence, “rblackmore” is a shameless liar, and his two
“examples” are invalid. But this is hardly surprising; after
all, he’s a “revisionist scholar”.
Now, is it true that Nazis were punished for participating
in mass murder of Jews? Not really. Possibly the best
source on this is the trial of Max Taubner, a member of
the SS, who participated in the mass murder of Jews in
Nazi-occupied USSR. I am including an excerpt below.
Now, note that the SS-court, indeed, sentenced Taubner
to 12 years in prison. However, the SS-court explicitly
states that “the Jews have to be exterminated”, and it
specifically notes that Taubner is *not* punished for the
> act of killing itself, but for:
>
> 1) Conducting the murders in a “barbaric” fashion.
>
> 2) Taking photographs of the executions and showing
> them in Germany.
>
> Here is the excerpt.
>
> BTW, Taubner was released from jail after a short time.
>
> Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against
> SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
> [‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press,
> NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
> —————————————————————–
> 1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
> the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the
> Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
> have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
> Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
> be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
> part in the extermination of Jewry himself. Real hatred of the Jews
> was the driving motivation for the accused. In the process he let
> himself be drawn into committing cruel actions in Alexandriya which
> are unworthy of a German man and an SS-officer. These excesses cannot
> be justified, either, as the accused would like to, as retaliation
> for the pain that the Jews have caused the German people. It is not
> the German way to apply Bolshevic methods during the necessary
> extermination of the worst enemy of our people. In so doing the
> conduct of the accused gives rise to considerable concern. The
> accused allowed his men to act with such vicious brutality that
> they conducted themselves under his command like a savage horde…
>
> 2. By taking photographs of the incidents or having photographs
> taken, by having these developed in photographic shops and showing
> them to his wife and friends, the accused is guilty of disobedience.
> Such pictures could pose the gravest risks to the security of the
> Reich if they fell into the wrong hands…
> Dismissal of the case against the remaining parties, 1 June 1943
>
> The following has been established on the basis of the main trial
> of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner…
> The following men were party to the punishable acts committed or
> ordered by SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner:
>
> 1. SS-Unterscharfuehrer Walter Muller particularly stood out during
> the shootings of Jews with the brutality with which he tore small
> Jewish children from their mothers. He held these children in
> front of him with his left hand and then, with his right hand,
> shot them with a pistol.
> . [three more SS-personnel accused]
> Allowances have been made for the fact that the accused were, without
> exception, acting on the orders of and under the responsibility
> of Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner. In this respect, their own
> culpability may be described as slight…
> The cases against these accused have therefore been dismissed.
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
Well, here is Mr. Keren and his distortions again. Not only was
Taubner condemned by SS courts, but so was
1. Amon Goeth (Though his sentence was not carried out. He
was later re-arrested by the Poles, tried, and convicted.)
2. Erich Koch, Commlander of Buchenwald. Arrested, tried,
and condemned to death by an SS court, along with other
aides and accomplices.
3. Grabner, notorious head of the political section at
Auschwitz, was relieved of his post and came under charges.
At the end of the war, he was re-arrested by the allies and convicted
and sentenced to death.
4. Hoess himself was under investigation for crimes, as was made
clear by the statements of SS Judges Konrad Morgen and Reinecke.
5. I have posted proof to the effect that German Judges condemned
people to death for the murder of Jews. One judge noted that the
Jews were entitled to the same protection under the law as any other
persons in Germany.
6. The wife of Kommander Koch was also arrested and tried by
the SS but was found not guilty.
7. There are many other examples which will prove the veracity of
my statements. As to Keren’s distortions,
I never stated that Rascher was condemned to death for the murder
of Jews. I merely stated that he was tried and condemned to death
by the SS on order of Himmler himself. The charge was kidnapping.
Mr. Keren finds this fact uncomfortable because Rascher is often used
as an example of German barbarity. In reality, Rascher was an air force
doctor, not an SS doctor, and his experiments were conducted on criminals
(I believe) in order to help save the lives of German service men. (I believe
that these criminals had been sentenced to death for the most part. In some
instances criminals were promised a release or remission of sentence if they
agreed to participate in the experiments.
Now, Mr. Keren’s blatant distortions is one of the main reasons why so
many people are disinclined to believe him and his ilk whenever they
make accusations. Keep up the good work, Dan. As we continually
expose your distortions, people may check them out for themselves, thus
hopefully winning over more converts to revisionism. Didn’t your mother
ever tell you that honesty is the best policy?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:49 PST 1996
Article: 80930 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:40:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> [email protected] (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
> Suchomel testified many times in trials. He never varied. He told
> Lanzmann that gassings occurred with accurate details. He told Sereny
> that gassings occurred. He was sentenced, jailed, released. He had no
> more to do it, if it was untruth. Nothing to lose, and (whatever you
> might think) nothing to gain.
Who knows, in the crazy world of holocaust affirmation, anything is
possible.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:50 PST 1996
Article: 80957 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:36:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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snip
Now, Jamie McCarthy remark: why did Suchomel never sue in law Lanzmann?
Well, the first explanation may be that he was dead in 1985, he’s born in
1908. But perhaps he was alive. Now, what could he win in case of victory? That someone dammaged
his reputation? Lanzmann drived the ‘interview’ in a such a way that Suchomel do not appear as a monster
but as a not so
bad guy who hadn’t any choice. Suchomel spent 7 years in jail and the
hagas chambers of Treblinka were supposed to be a fact. He certanly
confessed these one in court to not challendge the autorithy of the
tribunal, as we know, his only choice was to reject the blame on someone
else since people prior to him had ‘shown’ that the gas chambers were
a ‘fact’ , prior confessions or jewish witness.
And now, we have to consider that Suchomel was cardiac, that his only
wish was to end his life quietly without being submitted to troubles.
If he had sue the millionaire Lanzmann, the last one would have claim:
Oh yeah? and you stated yourself that you didn’t want to be recognize,
to bad that I filmed you. His word against Lanzmann word, with the
press against him, and 99% of the population who would have say: tsss
tsss, now that he was caught he try desesperatelly to lie! The picture
is bluerred, but with a rubber mask it certanly looks approximativelly
like Suchomel. As I said, there is frequent sketch on TV from people
who use such a plastic or rubber mask, and the imitations are quite
good, although they are not perfect. But here Lanzmann claim that he took those pictures in Suchomel’s
appartment with a transmitter, and
that his team in the van received it, and that this is why the image
is of a so poor quality. This doesn’t explain the picture of the map
from few inches, nor that the camera never shake, nor the 2 different
> # distances for Suchomel’s face. So if Suchomel was still alive in 1985,
> # he hadn’t any reason to prosecute Lanzmann. And the voice? who claim
> # that the voice is a perfect imitation? It is certanly not a perfect
> # one. But it is probably close to some extent. There’s dozens of imita-
> # tors in Quebec, perhaps hundreds if we count amators. It’s a profes-
> # sion, it’s something that we can learn. If someone give me a quarter
> # million dolalrs to play a role and say: you’ll have to spend 500
> # hours to learn how to imitate a voice, well, that’s 500$ the hour.
> Again, I don’t think any comment is necessary (except to point out that
> Annie Alpert’s argument has been quite distorted).
> —
> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> [email protected] Co-Webmaster of https://nizkor.org/
The kings of distortion have once again struck-this time with the
so-called interview of Suchomel. Of course it appears to have
been a complete fraud. How
else can the Holocaust be supported?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:51 PST 1996
Article: 80963 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) wri
SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz:
[Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
——————————————————————-
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women
[text deleted]
This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies
of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden.
Mr. Blackmore is on a roll. After a protracted and welcome absence,
he has returned with badly-focused enthusiasm. Dr. Keren posts a note
regarding gassing of women, Mr. Blackmore counters with Dresden. How
tedious. Burning is indeed a cruel way to kill people. If Mr.
Blackmore thinks that his heroic Nazis were not guilty of this as
well, he ought to see some of the pictures taken at Ohrdruf after it
was taken by the Allies.
Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
Is that so? Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
> positive about this. I believe that he cannot do this.
> Harry W. Mazal OBE
>
> Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
There is a difference between criminals and civilians, although I don’t
expect a fool like you to recognize that difference. And indeed you
don’t. Either way you are at the losers end of the stick, and the
old Holocaust just ain’t what it used to be. Of course I can and will
post proof that the allies initiated theuse of poison gas during the first
world war as soon as you post proof that the Nazis murdered 6 million
Jews during the second-or, let me make it easier-try even 2 million.
BTW, thanks for the welcome back. Get used to it.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:52 PST 1996
Article: 80964 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘It was in a compressed gas container’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:18:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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[email protected] (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
On 19 Nov 1996 23:16:40 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I,
p. 876-886].
A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
container, such as is used for welding – a hollow steel
container.
[text deleted for brevity]
And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
why didn’t they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
etc. etc.?
>
> But it was, Mr. Blackmore. Read a book. I am told that your library
> consists of some 145,000 books. Surely you have one on Treblinka.
Annd which one would you recommend? Steiner?
>
> (Mr. Blackmore will respond that he “meant” to say carbon monoxide
> _cylinders_. If so, we will save him some time by asking him a
> question: “Why would it be inconvenient to use carbon monoxide from
> compressed cylinders in large gas chambers?” He can find the answer
> in his library. I have it in mine which is much more modest.
You are obviously missing the point. So be it. You people would
jump through hoops of fire if you thought it might bolster your
foolish claims.
> Harry W. Mazal OBE
>
> Nizkor (USA) An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> Over 1000 Megs of data: https//nizkor.org/
> Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
> Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Page doesn`t exist) (Under construction – permanently!)
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:52 PST 1996
Article: 80965 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:23:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848467953@access2>
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> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
> >> in Poland, urging them to write home
> >> [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression – Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
> >> Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
> >> ———————————————————————-
> >> In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
> >> of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
> >> Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
> >> hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
> >> It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
> >> picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
> >> lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
> >> Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
> >> course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
> >> year’s time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
> >> help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
> >> necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
> >> right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
> >> follow us to do?
> >And what is this supposed to prove?
>
> Are you really too stupid to figure that out?
>>>>
Do you think I am? However, just for the sake of argument,
why don’t you answer the question directly?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:53 PST 1996
Article: 80966 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Nazis Punished For Killing Jews’? II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:35:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
> > not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
> > awarded medals for it!
>
> > Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of
> > concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14
> > November 1941
> > [Hitler and the Final Solution – G. Fleming, University of California
> > Press, 1984, p. 99]
> > ——————————————————————–
> [snip]
>
> >Now, my only questions are:
>
> >1. What is the original source for this document?
>
> Just a wild guess, but would it be “Letter from
> SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of concentration camps,
> SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 November 1941”?
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/
No, that is not the answer. You have a letter purported
to be signed by Arthur Liebehenschel and I want to know
who found this alleged citation, when, and where….It is
just like you to accept any old trash on face value as long
as it supports your contentions. You also might try answering
the rest of my question.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:54 PST 1996
Article: 80975 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I only gassed them’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:31:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
> >> [Quoted in “Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> >> Use of Poison Gas”, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> >> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
> >> ———————————————————————-
> [snip]
>
> >When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?
> You have the reference. Look it up.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/
Thanks for that instructive piece of advice. Funny how I never
thought of it. When I post something in the future and you happen
to ask for the source, I will be sure to give you the same answer, so
don’t whine like a baby like you usually do when you get the reply you
deserve.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:55 PST 1996
Article: 80976 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Nazis Punished For Killing Jews’? II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:32:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848468591@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >I fail to appreciated Keren’s point, if there is one.
>
> Not surprising. You’re terminally stupid.
You are so witty, Miss Flower……Oscar would be just wild about you….
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:55 PST 1996
Article: 80977 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:06:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
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References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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[email protected] (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
Does Israel still have the version of the Nuremberg Laws to
prohibits a non-Jew from marrying a Jew?
=====
http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html (Page doesn`t exist) Zundelsite
http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ (Page doesn`t exist) to the light
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ (Page doesn`t exist) Student Revisionist Resource Site
http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ (Page doesn`t exist) Revisionist Productions
http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) Reflections upon the Holocaust
http://flashback.se/~rislam/ (Page doesn`t exist) Radio Islam
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Leuchter Report
http://www.hoffman-info.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) The Hoffman Report
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ (Page doesn`t exist) Greg Raven’s Website
http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html (Page doesn`t exist) David Irving
http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith)
http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ (Page doesn`t exist) Be Wise as Serpents
http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) L’Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
d’Holocauste (also in English)
http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ (Page doesn`t exist) Arthur R. Butz
http://www.air-photo.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html (Page doesn`t exist) Adelaide Institute
I don’t know about that one, but they do have a code that defines
a Jew. Only a child born of a Jewish mother is a Jew. There was
a case where a woman emigrated to Israel from eastern europe. The
woman, we were told, had been in the “holocaust”. She died in her
beloved Israel and was buried there. However, it soon came to the
attention of Rabbis that the woman’s mother had not been Jewish-
only the father. To the stunned astonishment of the woman’s family,
the rabbis marched into the Jewish cemetary and dug her very corpse
up from the ground and tossed it out of the cemetary. What a welcome home!
This story originated in the publication “Jewish Currents”.
Also, a few years back, and rather reminiscent of the Nazis yellow
badge, the Prime Minister of Israel, goaded on by fanatical rabbis,
issued a decree that anyone who was a CONVERT to Judaism
had to have their passport stamped with a large “C” to show to
the authorities that they were not really Jews. In Sammy Davis Jr.’s
case, it obviously wouldn’t have made any difference.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:56 PST 1996
Article: 80978 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:09:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <karlpov.848467735@access2>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing
> > at Belzec
> > [Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
> > Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
> > ———————————————————————-
> > When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
> > 1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
> > would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
> > with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
> > spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
> > work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
> > I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly>
that they had come from the
> >Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
> > extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
> > killed at the the camp at Belzec…
>
> >Well, this is curious in itself, as most of the Jews were allegedly killed
> >at Auschwitz, not Belzec. It makes me question his source.
>
> Is it of any fundamental importance that Globocnik may have been bragging
> (as appears to be the case from Kurt Gerstein’s record of a conversation
> with him as well)?
> > At any rate,
> >this is second had information.
>
> Jane, what part of “I witnessed an execution” didn’t you understand?
Mary, what part of lie don’t you understand? BTW, if I want
your opinion, I’ll ask your master, Nizkor.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:57 PST 1996
Article: 80980 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-semitic acts
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:45:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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[email protected] (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
Having followed the news reports of such things over the years, and
having taken the time to look for the follow-up stories, one thing is
very clear, something approaching 90% of them are committed by Jews.
In fact it is a rarity to find a non-Jew as the perpetrator of such
“hate” crimes.
Thus, given current events, lets us consider that Krystallnacht was
perpetrated by Jews, as that is most likely.
=====
http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html (Page doesn`t exist) Zundelsite
> http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ (Page doesn`t exist) to the light
> http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/(Page doesn`t exist) Student Revisionist Resource Site
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ (Page doesn`t exist) Revisionist Productions
> http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) Reflections upon the Holocaust
> http://flashback.se/~rislam/ (Page doesn`t exist) Radio Islam
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html (Page doesn`t exist) The Leuchter Report
> http://www.hoffman-info.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) The Hoffman Report
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ (Page doesn`t exist) Greg Raven’s Website
> http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html (Page doesn`t exist) David Irving
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith)
> http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ (Page doesn`t exist) Be Wise as Serpents
> http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html (Page doesn`t exist) L’Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
> d’Holocauste (also in English)
> http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/(Page doesn`t exist) Arthur R. Butz
> http://www.air-photo.com/ (Page doesn`t exist) Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
> http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html (Page doesn`t exist) Adelaide Institute
I do not believe that “krystallnacht” was perpetrated by Jews, unless
you consider the assassination of the German legate, Vom Rath, to have
been the trigger. However, it is curious that Grynzpan survived the war.
One would think that in the lore of the final solution he would have been
among the first to go. In another context, here is an interesting story that
appeared in the world press about 8 years ago. The story went something
like this:
A vast Jewish mob rampaged throughout the arab district of Jerusalem,
screaming for revenge, beating up arabs, smashing store windows,
overturning vehicles, and calling for blood. The riots continued throughout
the day after a young Israeli rabbinical student was found stabbed to death.
Echoes of krystallnacht, wouldn’t you say?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 80981 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For what its worth
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:51:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
For the record, I want to say that I was accused by Mike Curtis
of distorting the text in the book, “The Belsen Trial”. This was
an out and out lie. What I posted was EXACT according to the
edition I have in my possession. Mr. Curtis was of the opinion
that there was only ONE edition, but he is in error. What I posted
was true and accurate, regardless of whatever edition Mr. Curtis
claimed to have access to….in fact, he claimed to have recieved
his info from another person.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 80982 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I made many complaints to Hoess’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:54:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> > There is, in
> >fact, no proof, to my knowledge, that Hoess ever even MET with Himmler
> >at the time he claims he was given a license to kill….and some researchers,
> >like Pressac and Van Pelt, I believe, now tell us that Hoess was “confused”
> >and that the order was given a YEAR LATER than the year we have all
> >been told it was given in the past…..”confusing” indeed! What a web we
> >weave……
>
> In fact, Van Pelt does not argue that Hoess was confused about the
> date.
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https//nizkor.org/
>>>>
So what? Others have.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:29:59 PST 1996
Article: 81018 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:14:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz:
> >> [Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
> >> Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
> >> ——————————————————————-
> [snip]
> >This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
> >may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies
> >of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
> >which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden. I have seen
> >these photos, and I cannot imagine anything more horrific. Death by
> >gas would have been merciful in comparison. Indeed, the allies had used
> >and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
> So what’s your point? That if Dresden was horrible the Nazis couldn’t
> have killed any Jews?
> —
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
Are you asking me or telling me? What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
enough?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:00 PST 1996
Article: 81042 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:46:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd44-232.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the
> Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
> [Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
> Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76].
> ——————————————————————-
> Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
> to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
> give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
> the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
> would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
> prevent the spread of diseases… After undressing, the Jews
> were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
> gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians…After
> the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
> doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
> a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
> Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
> and the corpses removed….
And who made this statement, and when?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:01 PST 1996
Article: 81043 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:47:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd44-232.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
> [Quoted in ‘The Good Old Days’ – E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
> Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
> ————————————————————
> As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
> arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries… The people were
> told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
> disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
> to be registered…
>
> When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
> then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
> gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked “to the baths”. The gas
> vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
> meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
> floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
> which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
> pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
> back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
> van…
>
> The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
> away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
> exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
> exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
> driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
> early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
> incinerated… I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
> there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
> had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing…
>
> I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
> anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
> influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
> carried out the orders I had been given.
If you don’t mind my asking, what sort of sentence did this man
receive after the war?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:01 PST 1996
Article: 81044 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘I made many complaints to Hoess’
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:55:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler
[Quoted in “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
—————————————————————-
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.
> I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
> the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.
>
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
He made many complaints but was never a part of it? Or else he
lied that he was never a part of it and attempted to shift the total
responsibility on to Hoess and the doctors? Yet other witnesses
say that the responsibility rested solely with the doctors. Others say
with Hoess….and Hoess says with Himmler…..whom Hoess says informed
him of the plan to exterminate the Jews out of the earshot of his closest
aide, Brandt, who curiously never mentions this incident at all. There is, in
fact, no proof, to my knowledge, that Hoess ever even MET with Himmler
at the time he claims he was given a license to kill….and some researchers,
like Pressac and Van Pelt, I believe, now tell us that Hoess was “confused”
and that the order was given a YEAR LATER than the year we have all
been told it was given in the past…..”confusing” indeed! What a web we
weave……
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:02 PST 1996
Article: 81048 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘These people were gassed to death and then burned’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:07:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Excerpt from the statement of Heinrich Ruoff, who was employed in
> one of the Nazi “Euthanasia” (mercy killing) centers
> [Quoted in “The Hadamar Trial”, p. 75]
> —————————————————————–
> My name is Heinrich Ruoff and I reside in the asylum at Hadamar. I
> began working in the asylum at Hadamar as chief male nurse in 1926.
> In about the year 1933 Bernotat became supervisor of the Institution.
> About 1935 Alfons Klein came there and became later on administration
> chief under Bernotat. In 1940 the program of killing started. Those
> people who were brought here were German mentally sick. These people
> were gassed to death and then burned. Bernotat instructed the people
> who worked there that they were not allowed to say anything about what
> they heard, saw, and did.
>
> <end quote>
>
> -Danny Keren.
Apparently they didn’t keep there word, did they?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:03 PST 1996
Article: 81052 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the ‘Gassing Apparatuses’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:52:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution – G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
————————————————————————
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that> Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive
Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer’s
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack’s view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer’s Chancellory through> your higher SS and Police leader.
Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
> without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
> those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
> to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
> mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
> procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
> fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
> the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
> apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
> to any further measures you take.
I take it you have the response to this letter? BTW, what ever happened
to Kallmeyer?
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:04 PST 1996
Article: 81057 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:12:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd09-054.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> In <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >> Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> [Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
> >> Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76].
> >> ——————————————————————-
> [snip]
>
> >And who made this statement, and when?
>
> Just a wild guess, but could it have been in the “Testimony of
> SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the Belzec-Oberhauser trial”?
> John Morris <[email protected]>
> at University of Alberta <Scripture veteris capiunt exempla futuri>
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
Just a wild and crazy guy……
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:05 PST 1996
Article: 81059 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘We are German citizens! You can’t do this to us!’
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:15:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau
> [Quoted from “Auschwitz Inferno”, p. 151]
> —————————————————————–
> One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They
> hadn’t shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing
> of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly
> found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people
> with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in
> this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The
> extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer]
> Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a
> way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who
> in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at
> once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed.
> As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others
> crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even
> now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate,
> turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without
> stopping: “We are German citizens! You can’t do this to us!”.
>
> For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from
> the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked
> the last voice.
>
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
Filip Mueller is one of the most unbelieveable of ALL the
so-called survivors.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:05 PST 1996
Article: 81069 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R R U L E S ******************
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:19:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> Kurt Stele ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> : Actually there is so much fuss made about Giwer it simply draws more
> : attention to his posts. Considering that most of his posts expose the
> : Holohoax wonderfully, this is a boon.
>
> Hmmm… let’s see. The last post I read from Matt, before I popped
> him back into my killfile, read something like this:
>
> (paraphrased)
> “You are a liar, you lying kike jew shit. Why do you lie? But then,
> you are a jew, so that is the same thing.”
>
> Yep. Guess it’s all up with the Holohoax.
>
> Bill
>
>>>>Here is a quote from non-revisionist Mark Van Alstine,
who referred to me as a “lying Nazi scumbag”, yet you take
offense when someone refers to you in the words quoted above.
Indeed, you should take offense, as should I. Neither comment,
however odious, either proves or disproves the Holocaust.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:06 PST 1996
Article: 81129 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Oh, the disrespect! DThomas, are you watching?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:03:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
Jean-Francois Beaulieu <[email protected]> writes:
Obviously to whom?
To anyone with a brain capable of thinking. Lanzmann is a liar.
“rblackmore” of course has no evidence to support this claim. But more
importantly, both he and Mr. Beaulieu have committed cardinal sin number
one in DThomas’ book: showing disrespect by calling someone a liar.
How, DThomas, are we supposed to conduct reasoned discourse when faced
with such shameful disrespect?
Your CODOH site in fact lionizes Mr. Beaulieu at
<http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrjfb/nrjfbcrema.html>. (Page doesn`t exist) And what ho!
What is this? That page’s introduction, penned by one of CODOH’s
editor/webmasters, claims:
Beaulieu’s response to this defensive technique was an equally
> curt and far more appropriate dismissal of what he accurately
> describes as intellectual dishonesty.
>
> Intellectual…dishonesty? “Dishonesty”? Did CODOH just accuse us of
> being dishonest? Now how are we supposed to engage in discussion when
> we’re being disrespected like that! Aren’t you the same DThomas who
> wrote yesterday:
>
> > The respect, as I have
> > said before, must be mutual and it must be real.
>
> How then to explain CODOH’s praise for Mr. Beaulieu’s writing,
> to Dr. Keren:
>
> You know, I was close to send a message of protestation to
> underline a spectacular case of intellectual dishonesty there, but
> suddenly I realized that I’ve just confuze you with another guy
> who’s posting regularly for years here. You won’t believe me:
> there’s another Daniel Keren who is posting here, a true crank
> this one.
>
> Oh, the disrespect! We can’t possibly work under these conditions!
>
> Posted; emailed to “rblackmore” and Mr. Beaulieu; please reply
> publicly.
> —
> Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> [email protected] Co-Webmaster of https//nizkor.org/
Well, Mr. McCarthy, I do not answer to Mr. Thomas nor anyone else, so
no use trying to propagandize here. My point was and is this: if what
Mr. B. worte is true, then Lanzmann is indeed a liar. There are liars and
lies in this world and Lanzmann appears guilty of the same. That’s it. You
Nizkor devotees have no problem calling revisionists liars all the time, and then
you sanctimoniously whimper and whine when the coin is reversed. How
hypocritical.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:07 PST 1996
Article: 81137 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:10:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad35-247.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
Jean-Francois Beaulieu ([email protected]) wrote:
For about a week I’m saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
10 years.
Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,
This is amazing. Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
at the time!
A splendid example of “revisionist” double standards of evidence. Video
is not enough for these people. Video! A video interview with someone
is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!
And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
in 1996 I suppose?
How silly this can get – but the game of supposing and hypothetical
theories can be used also the other way round.
Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel
that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn’t like
to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
> he did speak only to regret this later because he didn’t like to be
> shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: – testimonies do not count.
>
> Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz
> Suchomel, dated let’s say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one.
> Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel’s certificate. M Beaulieu
> or another “Revisionist” will claim that such a document
> does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal.
>
> Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he’ll argue
> someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
> pains to provide it he’d ask for another forensic test by a “neutral”
> commission. (I think Anne Frank’s diary was tested independently by
> several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with
> the same result that it is authentic – little surprise. But the claims
> of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).
>
> So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
> for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann’s film, the
> guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
> certificate were really the same person. May be, he’ll argue, there
> had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
> such a person, who knows …
>
> Can be proceeded ad infinitum.
>
> u.roessler [email protected]
I am a revisionist and I will say only this: until we are provided with
conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant. People also
confessed to being witches and licking the devils behind. People can and
do confess to almost everything, up to being abducted by aliens.
Mr, Lanzmann’s film is a long and boring curiosity, filled with statements
by eyewitnesses who miraculously lived to tell about alleged crimes
which have never been proven by independent physical evidence.
If such were available the Soviets would have been the first to
produce it after their embarrassment over the mass murders at Katyn
. In a way, they still got their revenge without even having to prove
their accusations against the Germans at the end of the war. Take it
for what it is worth-little or next to nothing.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:08 PST 1996
Article: 81157 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:32:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad31-212.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen
> (“The Belsen Trial”, p. 709)
> ————————————————————–
> The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
> that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
> Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
> Kramer’s second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who
> worked in Kramer’s office and was responsible for food supply.
> I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
> other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
> increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, “let them die, why
> should you care?”.
>
> <end quote>
> -Danny Keren.
You have this irritating habit of reposting the same old
lies and I wonder why….you must enjoy the embarrassment
it affords you. Herta Ehlert has been dealt with before and
rather decisively, I might add. She was charged with crimes
herself, and who better to blame things on than the kommandant?
Ehlert, after investigation by yours truly, turns out to have been a
liar as well as a thief. One of the peole the SS themselves would
have arraigned had the war not ended. For those interested in
pursuing Danny Keren’s distortion to the final destination-the
Big Lie-merely type in “blackmore” or Ehlert on Deja News and
look for the response I gave to this earlier and then decide for yourselves.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:09 PST 1996
Article: 81170 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, III
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:34:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti,
> Haj Amin Husseini, on 28 November 1941. The notes were taken by
> Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt and are quoted in Fleming’s “Hitler and the
> Final Solution”, p. 101-104. Also geheime Reichssache 57 a/41, Records
> Dept. Foreign and Commonwealth Office Pa/2.
> ———————————————————————
> The Fuehrer then made the following declaration, requesting
> the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:
>
> 1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last
> traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been
> obliterated.
>
> 2) In the course of this fight, the German army would – at a
> time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in
> the clearly foreseeable future – gain the southern exit of
> Caucasus.
>
> 3) As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuehrer would
> offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour
> of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany’s only
> remaining objective in the region would be limited to the
> annihilation of the Jews living under British protection
> in Arab lands.
Well, this never came to pass did it? In fact, it was the Arabs
who were dispossessed of their ancestral homelands? A biblical
prophecy come true? There are also some Jews who regard the
alleged holocaust as the fulfillment of biblical prophecy as well, which
is an entirely different story in itself.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:09 PST 1996
Article: 81182 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore still lies…. Re: Questions [email protected]
([email protected]) refuses to answer…
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:51:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd76-151.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
To this venomous response I state:
I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.
Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?
Since you cannot,
you need to retract this statement, or be branded, yet again, a liar.
Branded a liar by a liar?
Further,
nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two claims you made,
has had a shred of truth.
Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.
Your continual refusal to support your statements,
and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely
demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.
You simply are not content with my answers. You want to hear what you
wish to hear. I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi. If you want
that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.
By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another lie,
or have you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about
the Auschwitz Museum ?
There was no blunder. They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
for decades, the majority being Jews. Funny what you consider to be a
blunder, Mr. Gandhi.
>
> Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the questions,
> choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
> and they HAVE indeed been answered:
>
> > Have you heard from the Discovery Channel yet?
> > Have you heard from the publishers of WW II magazine yet?
> > Please share their comments with us. Inquiring minds want to know….
>
> To which I respond:
>
> As I have stated in the past, the Discovery Channel, in response to my
> request
> for information, gave me the same response they gave to Mr. Van Alstine –
> namely that they did not know of the documentary upon which you base
> your ludicrous claim. Since I do not believe that you are so stupid as
> to fabricate
> that particular piece of evidence, I assume that the Discover Channel needs
> more information regarding the particular documentary (which in fact, they
> did seem to ask for.) However, since I do not receive the Discovery Channel,
> and since you have unequivocally refused to provide any further information
> regarding the Mengele documentary, there is little that I can do. In any
> event,
> since I do not dispute that the statement may have indeed been made (with
> respect to the number of people murdered at Auschwitz), it is entirely
> irrelevant to your claim that the Discovery Channel is knowingly misleading
> public, a claim for which you have abnsolutely no proof.
Well, so be it. I will consider that admission to be the end of this argument.
>
> With respect to the publisher’s of the magazine of which you speak, I
> had sent
> them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have, thus far,
> received no response.
Gee, I wonder why? Could it be EMBARASSMENT? Now you see where all
your lies and distortions lead to……
> ——————-
> Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
> done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:10 PST 1996
Article: 81190 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, II
Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:47:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad17-067.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> The following photos are in
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images Broken link
>
> They are all scanned from “The Belsen Trial” – Edited by R. Phillips,
> William Hodge and Company, 1949.
>
> belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
> belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
> belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
> belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
> belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>
> The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
> that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/ Broken link
>
> Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz
> and Belsen).
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/ Broken link
>
> Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
> corpses in Belsen.
>
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/ Broken link
>
> Kramer.jpg: Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
> II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.
> -Danny Keren.
>>>>
Her……..er’s Danny! Once again reposting old trash that has
been successfully rebutted time and time again. Note his usual
style-resource to photos which are prima facie horrendous-however,
let’s note the following in a brief recap-
1. His comment referring to fat SS women.
Many of these SS women were employed by the administrative office
and had little or nothing to do with the detainees. Also, these women fortunately
did not become infected with typhus or the other dreadful diseases carried by
a great number of camp inmates. But Danny would clap his chubby little hands
with glee if he had pictures of these same women dying or starving to death.
What a sick little man, who apparently gets his thrills ogling over such
horrible scenes.
2. Kramer-the kommandant was actually kommandant of Belsen for only
THREE MONTHS, during which he sent a number of appeals for help
to his superiors, which, aside from a brief visit to the camp by Oswald Pohl
and Hoess, resulted in no tangible results, other than the construction of
some new and desperately needed barracks. Even this was turned against
the doomed kommandant with the pre-ordained sentence. A lying, perjuring
“witness”, one of thousands, later testified in court that these barracks were
really “gas chambers”! The problem with the conditions in the camp was
aggravated by the inmates, who turned the camp into a huge trash disposal
area, defecating and urinating whenever and wherever it happened to suit
their fancy, thus facilitating the spread of infectious diseases. Also, when
Kramer was given the assignment as kommandant of Belsen, his superior,
Pohl, misrepresented the situation. He told Kramer that he was to be named
kommandant over a camp which was to have served as a rest and rehabilitation
center. Consequently, Kramer thought he would have a relatively easy assignment.
Little did he know that this assignment would lead to his death, though not before
being grieviously mistreated and tortured by the British authorities. In fact, Belsen
did not live up to the promises made to Kramer by hios superiors. The seriously ill
were sent to Belsen by the THOUSANDS during the last 2 months of the war. Many
were infected with communicable diseases, which spread rapidly in the filth infested
camp. Curiously, camp two in Belsen remained unaffected by the epidemics. Why?
Because housed in camp two were the original inhabitants of the camp, who were not
mixed with the new arrivals. That is why one will see many people in the camp who
appear to be in good condition. Finally, thanks to Kramer isolating the children from
the adults, they were good health when the camp was handed over to the British
authorities on instructions from Kramer himself, who clearly recognized his
incapacity to deal with a catastrophic situation caused by the influx of ill prisoners
whom he could not turn away in any case. It is impossible to state how and why the
child in the photo offered by Keren died. What remains a fact is that the overwhelming majority
of children were in good health. Note that the British authorities were unable to prevent
thousands of people from dying even with the best medical help available at the time.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:11 PST 1996
Article: 81194 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:10:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd19-069.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
[email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
[email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the
Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
[Quoted in “BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA – the Operation Reinhard
Death Camps”, Indiana University Press – Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76].
——————————————————————-
Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
prevent the spread of diseases… After undressing, the Jews
were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians…After
the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
and the corpses removed….
> > And who made this statement, and when?
> Gee… Mr. “Blackmore/Belling/Whatever”
>
> I’d suggest a literacy course QUICK!
>
> Try reading this part again:
>
> > Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the
> > Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
>
> “Who made this statement?”
>
> SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender.
>
> When?
>
> In the Belzec-Oberhauser trial.
>
> Got any other questions?
>
> Sara
> “I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
Great! Now that you passed that part of the test try answering these
questions….they are a little harder…..
1. What happened to Mr. Michel?
2. What is Emil’s last name and what happened to him?
3. What happened to Erich Bauer?
4. Where are the written orders which instructed these
men to kill people?
5. Where is the forensic evidence to back all of this up?
6. What was the sentence received by the deponent at
his trial?
You answered the first question loverly…..now, let’s see if
you have what it takes to answer the above. I am waiting…..
Won’t you step into my parlour……..
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:12 PST 1996
Article: 81195 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:12:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd19-069.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Chuck Ferree <[email protected]> writes:
> Chuck Ferree wrote:
>
> Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
>
> Chuck
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> clips
> What I am trying to do is see if
> > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
> > enough?
> Quite simple enough…the same thing that happened to the Jews, did
> not happen to the Germans. What happened to the Germans was as I seem
> to recall: they started something they couldn’t finish, and got their
> collective asses kicked. Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans
> to be murdered by the millions. That’s what happened to the Jews.
> Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.
> BTW…Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in
> Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
>
> Chuck
Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions. Let’s see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:12 PST 1996
Article: 81200 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:19:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Are you asking me or telling me? What I am trying to do is see if
> >any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> >Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews. Simple
> >enough?
>
> War is a horrible thing. Since no one is denying that Germans were not
> bombed, we haven’t an issue there. Do I have concern for the German
> civilians who were bombed or the English civilians who were bombed?
> Sure. It would be a terrible way to live. There is no comparison with
> the German civilians and the Jews. For the Jews and other specified
> groups the future was inevitable.
Apparently not, as many Jews survived the war.
They were selected and by law
> treated in a special fashion.
What law would that be, and what is this special fashion
and how is it different from the way Americans treated Natives
and Afro-Americans until 1960?
But this is what you and your cohorts
> are denying.
>
> posted & emailed
I have no cohorts. I speak for myself, as always.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:13 PST 1996
Article: 81201 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:17:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd19-069.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> Mark
> ——————————————————————————–
> “Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
> not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties–but
> right through every human heart–and all human hearts.”
>
> — Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “The Gulag Archipelago”
> ——————————————————————————–
Mark, you silly little clown….must you still make an ass
of yourself in front of the whole world? Mark would like
the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for
those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
of people-his benefactors. I have never once read of this
man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
or any other civilians who died during and after the second
world war.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:14 PST 1996
Article: 81202 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Let them die, why should you care?’
Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:05:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> [About the testimony of SS-woman Herta Ehlret]
>
> # You have this irritating habit of reposting the same old
> # lies and I wonder why….
>
> You have this odd habit of claiming that you know more about
> what happened in Nazi camps than each and every person who
> was in them. I guess it’s more than just an odd habit – must
> be some kind of mental illness.
>
> # Herta Ehlert has been dealt with before and
> # rather decisively, I might add.
>
> Oh, you’re also a very humble guy.
>
> Anyway, you claimed that Ehlret was lying, and that commandant
> Kramer was a reliable and truthful witness. However, he also
> testified about the murder in the Natzweiler and Birkenau gas
> chambers. But, oh, wait, you claim that he was reliable and
> truthful only when he said what you want to hear, right?
>
> You’re such a stupid and dishonest Nazi apologist.
> -Danny Keren.
Danny, you are such a silly little man.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:15 PST 1996
Article: 81211 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:31:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Speech by Hitler, January 31, 1939
> [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals –
> Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol XIII, p. 131]
> —————————————————————
> Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers
> in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into
> a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth,
> and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in
> Europe!
In that case he was a very poor prophet, as the jews are still here and
apparently as numerous as ever.
From [email protected] Mon Nov 25 06:30:15 PST 1996
Article: 81212 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Updates Hitler About the Mass Murders in the East
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:30:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> (See
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images Broken link
> report-51.jpg
> for a photograph of this document)
> Report No. 51 of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to Hitler about mass
> executions in the east, 1942
> [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals –
> Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 269-272]
> —————————————————————-
> August September October November
>
> Prisoners executed
> after interrogation 2,100 1,400 1,596 2,731
> .
> .
> Accomplices of guerrilla and
> guerrilla suspects executed 1,198 3,020 6,333 3,706
> .
> .
> Jews executed 31,246 165,282 95,735 70,948
> Villages and localities
> Burned down or destroyed 35 12 20 92
Well, I would ask for a full breakdown of these figures. it is estimated
that at least 1.5 million Jews fought against Germany on the allied side
during the second world war. The figures of the millions who fought in
the partisan movement are vague, but they did number in the millions
as well. it is time to stop quoting documents out of context and start
supply real facts for people to examine. Might ruin your game plan,
but thems the breaks.
