Mike Curtis writes:
> [email protected]
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> Chuck Ferree writes:
> >> Chuck Ferree writes:
> >. Did the two of you happen to be in the
> >> neighborhood at the time? No!!! Then how come you both are so
> >> knowledgeable about this mysterious time in history?
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > [email protected] (tom moran) writes:
> >> > > [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
> >> > > I wonder if this laboratory still has the sample on file? Or if
> >> > > the lab. doesn’t exist any more, is there a record to show what
> >> > > happened to the sample?
> >> > Yes, I believe it was filed away with Pandora’s Box and the head of Medusa.
> >What you saw were fakes, plain and simple. It’s not our fault if you are so gullible.
>
> And this is an example of your taking the high ground. Yup, Im
> impressed Mr. Belling/Blackmore.
I’ll be more impressed when you produce the samples.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:40 PDT 1996
Article: 67996 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:23:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >> > [email protected] writes:
> >> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >Apparently this will be like looking for a non existent needle in a very BIG haystack.
>
> Try looking first. Most you deniers do not seem to know what real
> research is. Prove to us that you actually know by LOOKING, Mr.
> Belling/Blackmore.
> Mike Curtis E-mail [email protected]
You really should think more before you post…..BYW, I could advise you to
do the same-try LOOKING beyond Nizkor for once in your life.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68025 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:36:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
> >Let’s not get in to how Mr. Irving has fared. It dosen’t look good for free
> >speech advocates.
>
> Let’s face it – it doesn’t look good for Mr. Irving. He’s been sued
> at least twice for libel.
>
> Derek
> —
> Derek Bell d[email protected] WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson
Which is apparently what will happen if Deborah Li[stadt ever steps foot on
English soil.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68028 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 22 Sep 1996 14:59:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> All right Blah, blah, let’s do this quick:>>>>>
> >I have no doubt that conditions were deplorable.
>
> Here come the “buts.” Or is that Butz. 🙂
Uh-when have I ever quoted Butz?
> Uh huh. What did the guards drink? Why was water restored so quickly?
Read about it in “The Belsen trial”.
> So he couldn’t possibly have cleaned up the conditions of his camp? Do
> you have documents stating that he wanted to?
Already posted and presented at the Belsen Trial.
>
> > He seems to have made a good faith effort to ameliorate conditions,
> >but it was beyond his means.
>
> Source?
Same as above.
>
> > HE was surprised when the British informed him that the water from
> >the river was not contaminated.
> Source and what documents are there to back up his assertions? (I ‘m
> no expert on this subject. I find it interesting that the subject is
> death camps IN GERMANY.
Death camps-as in people DIED there….hello?
Same as above. Blah, blah, blah, etc. ad infinitum.
>
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68029 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:01:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >If you want to go on playing your little game of quoting out of context,
>
> Prove that he is quoting out of context. Thanks.
Read the book. thanks.
>
> >I can do the same-and I am as good at it as you are, with one exception-
> >I don’t have any ax to grind.
>
> Bwahahahahahahaha!
Is that Swahili, or more cheers from the peanut gallery?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68033 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is there no revisionist version of Nizkor?
Date: 22 Sep 1996 16:20:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Allan Matthews) writes:
> Nizkor, preeminently among other sites, has a great deal of information
> regarding the standard view of the holocaust. Pictures, documents, etc. etc.
> So, I ask the revisionists – why is there on comparable site to this
> supporting your side of the story?
>
> allan
Don’t you think it curious that two non-revisionists answered your question to
revisionists?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 68035 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zen Buddha SAYS
Date: 22 Sep 1996 16:17:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 19 Sep 1996 04:10:09 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> #Zen Buddha says: If you are seeking for the truth, look for a lie…and
> #that’s why revisionists are here: we are seeking the truth.
>
> And with this statement, it becomes abundantly obvious that you have
> absolutely no understanding of Zen either.
Doesn’t it have something to do with the Prisoner of Zen da?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:45 PDT 1996
Article: 68036 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:09:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> Sure. First you give them water.
The water with the corpses floating in it?
>
> The water was available.
The only water available was in the river, which Kramer thought was polluted.
There indeed was not enough water in the camp to supply the thousands of ill people
jammed in there, which was not Kramer’s fault.
>
> Second you give them food.Food was available. Kramer did not do this.
No. Most of these peole were ill with gastro-enteritis. Food aggravates this
condition. Also, the food was NOT available for these great numbers.
>
>
> Medical help was available. Kramer did not do this.
Not true, The attempt was made. Even the British had problems saving lives,
and they were better epuipped than kramer by a long shot.
>
> Fourth you tell the sadisitc gang of thugs you command to stop killing
> people. Kramer did not do this.
Where is the order that he told them to kill people? Also, some of these guards were
not under his direct command, having been sent there during the last few weeks of the
war.
>
> Apaprently you think Kramer is innocent.
I know Kramer was innocent.
>
> Provide us some proof that does not begin “In my opinion
I already did. Read it.. . . . ”
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68046 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 23 Sep 1996 11:56:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lrog$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:41:36 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <5138ug$6f[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> :>> 08:30:08 GMT writes:
> :>>
> :>> [deleted]
> :>>
> :>> :>Not only do you need to work on your history, but I would suggest that you
> :>> :>brush up on your spelling and typing skills as well. Apparently your line that separates
> :>> :>good and evil also separates ignorance and intelligence. You are not in my league,
> :>> :>cub scout. Go back to playing with your marbles, most of which you obviously lost
> :>> :>some time ago.
> :>>
> :>> I guess I have to explain to you that you don’t defeat Mr. van Alstine’s
> :>> arguments by simply saying you have; you have to actually do so.
>
> :>I believe I have done so, especially since most of his arguments consist of epithets.
> :>Have you decided to now argue the merits of his case for him?
>
> Please re-read your paragraph above that starts with the words “Not only” and
> then the paragraph just above this one, that starts with the words “I believe
> I have done so….most of his arguments consist of epithets”, and tell me how
> you wrote that with a straight face.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
I didn’t. I wrote it with my keyboard.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68047 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: 23 Sep 1996 11:57:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51qf8o$m8[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 03:39:04 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] writes:
> :>> I was not aware that “Crimes against Humanity” was dependant upon “being
> :>> directly responsible for anyone’s death.”
> :>>
> :>I am afraid that is how it should be interpreted. I can think of no other reason for
> :>taking another human being’s life, regarless of the “Charter”.
>
> Regardless of how you would like to interpret the Charter Mr. Blackmore, you
> would be well advised to read it first, as you obviously have not done in this
> case. The point is what the Charter said, not what you might wish it had
> said.
>
> :>> I believe that, instead of reading the proceesings related specifically to
> :>> Streicher, Mr. Belling/Blackmore, you should read the original indictment
> :>> and the explanation of what “crimes against humanity” IS in the FIRST
> :>> PLACE.
> :>>
> :>> Then come back and say whatever you want.
>
> :>I read it. Years ago. And I am back to say that “Crimes against Humanity”
> :>did not apply to Streicher, for the many reasons I have posted within this thread
> :>over and over again.
>
> You may say that all you want, but that doesn’t make it right.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
What it makes is true.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:47 PDT 1996
Article: 68048 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay’s Big Whopper
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:00:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51ls9v$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:50:55 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <51cg1t$ig[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> :>> 20:26:37 GMT writes:
> :>>
> :>> [deleted]
> :>While I appreciate your posting the information, I do not find it compelling.
> :>People’s opinions are not of great interest to me as a researcher. I would
> :>hesitate before I state that every “establishment” historian is a “real” historian,
> :>whatever that means. I will not quibble over the word purveyor. It’s meaning
> :>is unequivocal whether that particular word is used or not.
>
> Mr. Blackmore, you have to read more carefully. If people’s opinions are of
> no great interest to you as a researcher, why were you so bent out of shape
> about people calling Streicher a pornographer? It was _you_, not the
> “establishment” historians, who introduced the notion of purveyor of
> pornography. You still have not cited a single reference for anyone other
> than you saying that; you are still trying to construct the straw man.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
No, sir, it was the establishment historians, which was the original basis for my complaint.
By the way, have you now taken it upon yourself to become Ms. Schwartz’s “knight in
shining armour”?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 68049 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:03:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes
> Which is done by a final forensic report. Read it. Deal with it.
> > I do not know whether his reports were accurate or not-what do
> > I have to measure them against?
>
> Since you have not even bothered to read his report, you, of course,
> have no knowledge of it.
> cross-examination. What makes you think that the toxilogical reports (which were
> rendered by a laboratory in Paris) were not part of his report?
>
> –YFE
Originials, please.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:49 PDT 1996
Article: 68059 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Van Alstine talking to himself
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:20:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 22 Sep 1996 16:13:51 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> #> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> #> [email protected] wrote:
> #>
> #> >I have been noticing many replies to my posts by M. Van Alstine….Is
> #>he talking to himself, or what?
> #>
> #> Nope. He’s making you look the fool. Bwahahahahahahahaha!
> #> Mike Curtis E-mail [email protected]
> #Do you feel ok today,Mike? I am starting to get concerned for your mental
> #well being….
>
> You needn’t concern yourself. Mike is just having a good laugh at your
> expense.
>>>>
Who ever said I was paying?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:49 PDT 1996
Article: 68061 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg’s SS Amon Goth?,2-Mark Van Alstine’s Strike 1
Date: 17 Sep 1996 10:20:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-089.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <513h78$9n[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 10:51:20 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> It seems that one of the facts of life is that the winners win and the losers
> lose. Has it not always been thus? The victors try the vanquished. Who else
> was supposed to try the vanquished, by the way? Certainly not the German
> government, which ceased to exist at the time of unconditional surrender.
> Germany had basically taken the world on and lost. Perhaps Sweden or
> Switzerland should have conducted the trials?
> Certainly a kangaroo court would have executed the lot (e.g. the Stalin show
> trials in the 1930s).
>
> Well, this one had to give the semblance of a fair trial.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
I appreciate your comments and agree with some of them but disagree that
the victors should have sat in judgment on the vanquished. Switzerland would
indeed have been a good choice. Also, the German Government was dissolved
upon orders of the victors. I still maintain they were perfectly capable of judging
criminals in their own country. We don’t take kindly to countries which “try” and
judge American soldiers as war criminals. We can’t have a double standard here.
rb
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:50 PDT 1996
Article: 68064 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:20:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd73-017.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lrvj$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:45:23 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>rblackmore writes to Gordon McFee:
> :>
> :>> :>Then you will agree that allied propangandists also should have been imprisoned for
> :>> :>life for inciting against the Germans and Japanese? Just curious whether you attempt to
> :>> :>rationalize their hate filled rantings as well.
> :>>
> :>> They are not similar situations, Mr. Blackmore. The Allied propagandists did
> :>> not incite their soldiers to exterminate a group of people who had absolutely
> :>> no connection with the war. In fact, the Allies did not incite genocide at
> :>> all. Streicher did both.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????
> :>I thought that I had answered this argument before, but I failed to find it posted.
> :>You are in error here, Mr. McFee. Please read my posts concerning “Streicher vs.
> :>Ehrenburg” and then get back to me, if you wish.
>
> I have read your posts concerning Streicher vs. Ehrenburg. I see nothing
> there that would have me change my position on this matter.
Did you lose your ability to reason, along with your eyesight. Frankly, I am amazed
that you should write this. Oh, well, it’s an amazing world. For once, you have
written a line before it’s time.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 14:08:04 PDT 1996
Article: 68075 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: 22 Sep 1996 14:23:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd73-017.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >Not so. I already referred people to the film made by Alfred Hitchcock at the
> >end of the war, which was narrated by Trevor Howard. If I have seen it,
> >surely you can track the film down as well. We see all the horrors associated
> >with the camp, but we also see many people looking relatively healthy. This
> >in itself would be amazing in view of the fact that all sick patients were being
> >transferred to Belsen during the last months of the war.
> I saw the film. The German guards did look pretty healthy.
We weren’t talking about the guards, many of whom had just been transferred there.
How many
> folks did they force those guards to bury? Wasn’t it 3 or 4 huge
> graves? It seems there were 1000s in each one of those graves. I’ve
> since forgotten the exact number.
We weren’t talking about the dead, we were talking about the living and
how many of the appeared to be more or less healthy. if you saw the film,
then refer to them. If you want the number, it was posted 13,000 times.
> > >
> (Concerning the ill-treatment and murder of Germans as a fact, Curtis writes):
> Yup. But I this statement is another of those specific free
> statements.
Then acknowledge the fact before the browsers.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 15:48:56 PDT 1996
Article: 68114 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: 23 Sep 1996 09:11:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-226.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > > Your game is getting fairly transparent. Ask for evidence and, when it is
> > > presented, either state that your opinion based on no facts whatsoever is
> that it is
> > > fraudulent or ask for more. Sometimes, as here, you request is infantile.
>
> > Too bad you can’t reply to it with facts, rather than hear-say gossip.
>
> It is neither hearsay or gossip. It is fact. The problem is that you do like
> those facts. I have not insulted you so far but I thinlk it about time. You are a
> Giwer.
>
> –YFE
Thanks for the compliment. Now, where are those facts?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 17:27:19 PDT 1996
Article: 68132 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Re:
Date: 18 Sep 1996 22:55:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad33-199.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> writes:
> >If you are again referring to the spurious tales written by Rauschning, I might
> >advise you, as you obviously are unaware, that Rauschning’s books have
> >already been exposed as pure fantasy by a Swiss researcher.
>
> Who is this Swiss researcher?
Golly, I thought you’d never ask. His name is Wolfgang Haenel. The book is “Die
Faelschung von Rauschning’s Gespraechen mit Hitler, Ingolstadt,1984.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 18:12:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68137 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:16:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>
> Alleged to have been gassed where? I get a real kick at these lack of
> specifics. Here Belling/Blackmore wants to reinvestigate the crime
> scene 50 years later. I can’t think of too many cases that can be
> reinvestigated 50 years later,
Oh, I can. Let’s see, I know: “The Mary Phagan Case”, or “The Rosenberg Case”,
or “The Dreyfus Case”, gee….a pattern is beginning to be formed.
. But Dr. Larson
> was accepted as an expert. The burden of proof is on you, Mr.
> Belling/Blackmore.
No, it isn’t. where is the autopsy report and the toxicologicall tests?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 18:12:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68138 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zen Buddha SAYS
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:21:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Allan Matthews) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> On 19 Sep 1996 04:10:09 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> #Zen Buddha says: If you are seeking for the truth, look for a lie…and
> >> #that’s why revisionists are here: we are seeking the truth.
> >>
> >> And with this statement, it becomes abundantly obvious that you have
> >> absolutely no understanding of Zen either.
> >Doesn’t it have something to do with the Prisoner of Zen da?
>
> You wrote it, oh Aryan genius, so why don’t you just tell us?
>
> allan
> =================================================
> [email protected]
> =================================================
> A monk asked Un Mun, “What is Buddha?”
> Un Mun replied, “Dry shit on a stick.”
> =================================================
> http://www.cybercom.net/~amatthews/amatthews.html (Page doesn`t exist)
> =================================================
How do you know I am an Aryan?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:35:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Killing two birds with one stone
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:27:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51pttf$3r[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 22:42:55 GMT writes:
> [deleted]
>
> :>Thanks for the recap, Mike, and have you noticed-I’m still here. I can fully understand
> :>that you can not read every single post here….and I am sure you understand one person’s
> :>limitations when responded to by 10 or more different people-rat-packing-I believe, is one
> :>of your not so finer points here, but I’m not complaining. I can probably handle about 50 of
> :>you without too much trouble.
>
> That’s the kind of statement that makes one wonder about your motives for
> being here, Mr. Blackmore. In one post, you portray yourself as the tireless
> seeker of the truth, even though you impose far more stringent standards of
> proof on others than upon yourself. In another, you engage in the bombast
> above, a sort of macho man approach. Which is the real Mr. Blackmore?
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
For once I can’t answer. Good-night, Mr. McFee.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:51:18 PDT 1996
Article: 68184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:06:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51om7n$bf[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 11:25:43 GMT writes:
> [deleted]
> This becomes a bit silly, Mr. Blackmore and not up to your usual rigorous
> standards. What this gentleman has done is produce a scientific report. He
> is not around anymore to answer the myriad questions about methodology and so
> on that one might like to ask him 50 years later. He conducted a scientific
> experiment, with no particular axe to grind, and reached a conclusion. What
> is your problem with that?
No particular axe to grind?
>
> If one were to apply your standard of acceptable evidence, one would have to
> dismiss many of the scientific breakthroughs of the last 1000 years.
Where are the original autopsy reports and the toxicological tests? It would be in
the interests of truth for you to produce them….It is amazing how well you guys
dance without any music!
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 21:51:20 PDT 1996
Article: 68185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 23 Sep 1996 12:09:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > > > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > You are making a Giwer of yourself………..
>
> And your qualifications to contradict the opinion of a forensic
> pathologist are?
>
> –YFE
I am not contradicting his opinion. I am ignoring it until I see the original
results of the
toxicological tests which you say were conducted.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:26 PDT 1996
Article: 68256 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 23 Sep 1996 09:07:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-226.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51ptg2$3r[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 22:35:46 GMT writes:
> :>
> >The purpose of the original thread was to discuss wether Hoess was tortured
> :>> >
> :>> First you have to prove these “beatings and torments” before you lay
> :>> claim to them as facts
They are facts. This was addressed ages ago I have to refer you to
previous posts as I will not repeat myself. Any “confession” extracted by force,
threat, torture, or coercion is invalid.
> :>>
> :>> > he was then shipped on to the Poles and Soviets,
> :>>
> :>> If you have evidence otherwise, please, by all means, present it for
> :>> us all to read.
Mr. McFee, you know what? It is no major concern of mine to “convert” you.
I post what I post.
> :>Read the interrogation techniques used by the Soviets and Poles in “Documents
> :>on the German Expulsion-Poland”, and then read John Sacks “An eye for an eye”,
> :>and then use your reason to think the matter out-then get back to me.
> Or are we faced with a double standard here?
Yours, apparently.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:27 PDT 1996
Article: 68257 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 23 Sep 1996 09:17:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-226.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
> > You really should think more before you post…..BYW, I could advise you to
> > do the same-try LOOKING beyond Nizkor for once in your life.
>
> You really should try being HONEST, Mr. “Blackmore” and tell us why you
> post under two different names.
>
> Sara
> “I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy.”
> Samuel Butler
Because I’d like to live a few more years, if that’s all right with you. And
if it isn’t—tough.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:28 PDT 1996
Article: 68270 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 23 Sep 1996 11:54:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-150.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lre4$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:36:04 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>>
> :>> Please name _one_ book in which Streicher is referred to as a _purveyor_ of
> :>> pornography.
>
> :>Try Synder’s “Encyclopedia of the Third Reich”. See under Streicher. Though
> :>he doesn’t use the exact word “purveyor”, the meaning is quite clear.
>
> I am sorry, that is not good enough, according to the Blackmore method of
> historiography. Synder does not use the word “purveyor”, and therefore is
> unacceptable as a source.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
That’s fine. We already have your quotes on Streicher for the record.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:29 PDT 1996
Article: 68272 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 23 Sep 1996 08:49:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd33-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51pq5g$3r[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 21:38:56 GMT writes:
> :>
>
> :>>>>>
> :> As per the standards you have been setting lately, I will of
> course require a primary source, such as the written confession of a senior
> Polish or Russian official to the effect that they had plans to deport Hoess’
> family if he didn’t cooperate.
No problem: “Legions of Death” by Rupert Butler. Hamyln House, London.
And it wasn’t the Poles or Russians, it was the British. I would expect much worse
>from the Poles or Russians.
>
> It would be interesting as well if you were to complete your thoughts for
> once.
For once? One step at a time….just like “I’ll write no line before it’s time….”
For example, on the Hoess front, what are you trying to imply? That
> his testimony is worthless because he may have been roughed up by his captors?
> Or because he changed his estimate of the number of people murdered at
> Auschwitz?
Mr. McFee, you seem to be an intelligent individual. Is it really necessary for me to spell
all this out for you in detail?
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 17:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68808 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!
nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 23 Sep 1996 09:21:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd26-226.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > > There was a report on “All Things Considered” which interviewed several
> > > Germans who had been at the debate. The gist of theri answers was that it
> was the
> > > first time they had been presented with a credible explanation of why people
> > > participated in the Holocaust rather than just the fact that it happened.
> Assuming
> > > that was true, I would attribute it to lousy teachers.
>
> > Were these German Jews or Germans?
>
> And then, of course, Giwer Redux will ask for birth certificates, dental
> records, and sworn affidavits from at least ten non-German witnesses.
>
> Others would have checked with “All Things Consdiered.” That would
> smack of research.
>
> –YFE
Notice how he never answered the question……….
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:03 PDT 1996
Article: 68920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:59:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images Broken link
> buchenwald04.jpg:
> German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops
> have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how
> well-dressed and well-fed they are.
They might have been had the thousands of inmates who were ill with typhus
and dysentery been released without treatment……
> -Danny Keren.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:04 PDT 1996
Article: 68922 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Re Hoess & rbl lies
Date: 26 Sep 1996 07:06:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Chuck Ferree writes:
> Chuck Ferree wrotes:
>
> Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
> Sent: 9/22/96 4:16 PM
> To: [email protected]
>
> >Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
> >Sent: 9/22/96 12:14 PM
> >Received: 9/22/96 9:33 AM
> >From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
>
> I don’t know why I bother with you..
> Chuck Ferree
I replied to this post of Chuck’s but he never posted it. If it isn’t here tomorrow, I will
post it myself.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:05 PDT 1996
Article: 68931 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: 26 Sep 1996 07:33:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd07-070.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] writes:
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > https://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images Broken link
> > buchenwald04.jpg:
> > German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops
> > have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how
> > well-dressed and well-fed they are.
>
> They might have been had the thousands of inmates who were ill with typhus
> and dysentery been released without treatment……
> > -Danny Keren.
Typo: They might have been WORSE had the etc….(Before everyone crawls all
over my back about it……….
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:06 PDT 1996
Article: 68934 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Wicked old Nazi Witch and the Gingerbread House
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:34:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
This one should have been part of Soviet Def Comedy Jam, but it was so
good that I couldn’t resist posting it separately:
“According to instructions issued by the German Commandant, all the school children
were ordered to appear at the school at a given time. On arrival, the 245 children,
school books in hand, were sent to a factory school outside the town, allegedly for
a walk. There the cold and hungry infants were offered coffee and poisoned pies.
Since there was not enough coffee to go round, those who did not get any were
sent to the infirmary where a German orderly smeared their lips with a quick acting
poison. In a few minutes all the children were dead. School children of the higher
grades were carried off in trucks and shot down by machine gun fire 8 kilometers
outside of the town. The bodies of the first batch of murdered children were brought
to the same spot-a very large, very long, anti-tank ditch.” Pg. 493. IMT, Vol. VII.
Just as the Jews were once basely accused of poisoning Europe’s wells, so the Germans
are accused of poisoning pies. Actually the Commandant was just a lousy cook. The
Germans had good reason to insist that their women remain in the kitchen!
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:06 PDT 1996
Article: 68936 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A funny thing didn’t happen yesterday
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:47:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> A funny thing didn’t happen yesterday at Yom Kippur services. We had
> a guest rabbi to assist with the services, and he was supposed to give a
> talk late in the afternoon. He started out by distributing photocopies of
> a picture of two memorial markers from France (except that I didn’t get a
> copy before he started; otherwise I might have been able to avert the
> whole episode). One of them said, “Here are the ashes of our martyred
> comrades from Auschwitz” or some such. The other said something like,
> “Here is the soap made from the fat of our deportees.” He told the
> congregation what they were looking at, and I waited for him to tell the
> rest of the story – except he didn’t.
>
> He finished his talk, and called for questions. I was sort of on the
> spot. On the one hand, I hated to embarrass him, but on the other hand,
> I have an obligation to the truth, and that’s what won out. I got up and
> said, “I hate to say this, but the manufacture of soap from Jewish fat
> was a wartime rumor; no evidence was ever found.” I told about the RIF
> bars and the Mazur testimony at Nuremberg.
>
> Based upon the claims I see posted here by “revisionists,” I steeled
> myself for the inevitable firestorm of “Antisemite!” and “Self-hating
> Jew!” to rain down upon my head.
>
> But you know what? Not one person objected, either then or afterward.
> In fact, an Auschwitz survivor was in attendance – a Hugarian deportee;
> he showed me the tattoo on his arm – and he was quite matter-of-fact
> about it. He thought the soap stories were only widely accepted until
> the mid-’50s (so much for the “revisionist” claim to have “forced” the
> retraction), and it really didn’t matter to him if they were true or not.
>
> Maybe I just belong to an unusual congregation?
> —
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
An interesting story-and Happy New Year!
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:07 PDT 1996
Article: 68937 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Show Trials’? No, Just Another ‘Revisionist’ Lie
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:38:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
>
> (snip)
> So, an accused Nazi calling the survivors, and a senior
> member of the British counsel for the prosecution, “liars”.
>
> Gee. And our “revisionist scholars” have been telling us
> all along that these were “show trials”, in which the accused
> Nazis were “told what to say”, bla-bla.
>
> “Revisionists”. What a bunch of low-life Nazi liars.
> -Danny Keren.
So pleased to see that you brought the case of Irma Grese up. I will be
getting back to you on it soon. God forbid that “survivor testimony” ever
be considered mendacious….For the browser: Please check out the Posts:
“Soviet Def Comedy Jam-Part One”, and Soviet Def Comedy Jam-Part 2 for
an entirely different perspective.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68938 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes faked?
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:54:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> From time to time we see quotes from Russian-Jewish writer Ilya
> Ehrenburg encouraging atrocious behavior against Germans. I was
> looking through an issue of NEW REPUBLIC a few days ago and noticed
> a review of a new biography of Ehrenburg, who seems, like Zamyatin,
> to have enjoyed a curious immunity from Stalin’s purges. The
> review mentions that certain words of Ehrenburg circulated by the
> “right wing”, urging vengeance against Germans, are in fact a
> forgery.
>
> Can anyone out there post Ehrenburg’s anti-German exhortations
> together with a checkable primary source? If not, I think we
> should all assume that such quotes are bogus.
They are not a forgery. Nice try, though. But I can think of a few real
forgeries……
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:09 PDT 1996
Article: 68939 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes–faked?
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:57:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> From time to time we see quotes from Russian-Jewish writer Ilya
> Ehrenburg encouraging atrocious behavior against Germans. I was
> looking through an issue of NEW REPUBLIC a few days ago and noticed
> a review of a new biography of Ehrenburg, who seems, like Zamyatin,
> to have enjoyed a curious immunity from Stalin’s purges. The
> review mentions that certain words of Ehrenburg circulated by the
> “right wing”, urging vengeance against Germans, are in fact a
> forgery.
>
> Can anyone out there post Ehrenburg’s anti-German exhortations
> together with a checkable primary source? If not, I think we
> should all assume that such quotes are bogus.
Assume makes an ass out of you but not out of me. The quotes are not
bogus. There are a number of books in Europe which reprint some of the
original incitements to murder……this is not even debateable. Why do you
think he survived so long-he was Stalin’s pet “perrito”. He also happened to
be “Chief Theoretrician of the Communist Party”.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68940 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 26 Sep 1996 07:23:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd07-070.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >Mike-please stop telling people I do not provide. I will provide when asked. You asked,
> >so here is the source: “Concentration Camp Dachau”, Comite’ International de Dachau
> >65, rue de Haerne, Brussels, Lipp KG, Munich.
> What is this? This is the source for the Streicher stuff above?
> Don’t piss down my back and tell me its raining. So you say there were
> complaints before he became Chancellor. You tell me what of it.
That is your problem. It is available and it is non-revisionist. I had to locate it.
I can not do your research for you-sound familiar? The fact is, what I posted is
true and accurate, you’ll just have to live with it.If you are interested in the complaints
before Hitler came to power, there are 3 biographies concerning Streicher in the English
language. Research the library of Congress. They can give you all the info, I think, as
I do not have it at my finger tips.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68962 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:24:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > Brian Harmon writes:
> > > I disagree. For one, he was once the Kommandant of Birkenau (not all of auschwitz),
> > Wait. Let’s stop right here.
> You don’t think the fact that Kramer was in charge of a death
> camp is valid?
It is not relevant to Belsen.
I point out that he was
> once in charge of Birkenau, where the gas chambers of Auschwitz
> were housed.
>
> You don’t think that’s relevant?
Not to Belsen.
please have the courtesy to remain within the
> > perimeters of the Belsen camp.
>
> I will cite whatever information that i think is relevant.
That’s fine. No one asked you not to cite information. I just asked you to cite
information specifically relevant to Belsen. If you would like to discuss Kramer’s
role at Auschwitz, by all means let’s do it-but in another post.
> That doesn’t strike you as a bit odd?
No. have you ever been in the service? Do you know anything about the situation
existing within the various commands of the German military? I suggest that you reasearch
the issue if you have the inclination. Also, as I posted, food AGGREVATES the severe,
life-threatening intestinal ailments which most of these people were afflicted with.
>
> Particularly when you take into account the fact that many of these people were
> imprisoned there for no other crime than being Jewish?
Kramer did not imprison them. Also, if you want to discuss how many of the
incarcerated were Jewish, along with the cause for their arrests, as well as the
other detainees, I would be most interested. I do not have those documents, so
I will refrain from making a statement.
>
> I might point out, again, that the camp personell were in no danger of
> starving.
The ill were already seriously ill when they had been sent there. There were many
camp inmates who were not ill, yet many became ill after the mass transfers to the
camp. As to how many guards became ill, I have no idea.
>
> > > —
> Woopie. Thousands of people starving on his hands, tons of food nearby,
> and Kramer writes a letter.
>
> What a hero.
And of course you could have done a superb job of putting everything in order….
Arm-chair general……
>
> I don’t believe these letters exist. prove me wrong.
They exist. Read Reitlinger, he confirms it. Now that you are proven wrong,
what do
you say?
>
> If you read the testimony carefully, you’ll discover that he didn’t even
> ask for food from the Wehrmacht barracks:
He was not allowed to give me anything.
>
> —DID YOU EVER ASK HIM? – NO. The food that was stored there was only for
> the Wehrmacht and the only thing I received from him was 10,000 loaves a week.
>
> Thousands starving, and he doesn’t even _ASK_ for more food.
It wouldn’t have done any good even if he had asked. He was not in a position to
requisition supplies from the Wehrmacht, and, as I already explained, food would only
have aggravated their condition due to the nature of their illness….
>
> What a hero.
As a matter of fact, he may not have been a hero, but he did the right thing by arranging
for the peaceful transfer of the camp to the British as soon as possible. he also could have fled.
He didn’t. He did what any other human being with good intent would have done in his
place.
> You don’t think the conditions in a camp are the responsibility
> of the camp Commandant?
Do you understand that kramer was sent to this camp by his superiors, who
misrepresented the situation to him? Do you understand that the camp was
supposed to have been a “rest and rehab camp”, where the ill were supposed
to have been transferred? You expect way too much from a man who was in
charge of the camp only for the LAST 3 MONTHS of it’s existence. The people who
should have been charged were Hoess and Pohl. Trying to make subordinates
responsible for the actions of their superiors is unjust.
>
> > And according to your same source, the children were fortunately in a state of
> > fairly good health.
>
> Where? it’s not in the selection included at nizkor.
It is in the original text of the trial. It is in the British edition of “The Belsen Trial”.
If you need the page number I will get it for you. I think I posted the text, didn’t
I? How strange that Nizkor should have left this out.
>
> That Kramer told the doctor to screw off when the doctor complained
> about the conditions.
>
> Meaning: Kramer knew, and he didn’t care.
No. What it means was Klein was at the camp less time than kramer. He had
authority to use whatever supplies existed in the camp, and he did so. Aside from
that, Kramer did not owe him any explanations as to the steps he had taken to
attempt to relieve the situation.
>
>
> > >
> > > Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
> > >
> > This quote is simply absurd. She had no authority to issue orders to Kramer
> > either. I do not believe her.
>
> That’s fine. believe what you like.
Read my post on the testimony of Ehlert, then get back to me.
>
> It still doesn’t change the fact that Kramer let them starve.
Did you expect him to bake the bread himself.
>
> > > Given what i’ve posted here, it seems that Kramer could have done
> > > quite a bit to prevent starvation at the camp, yet he did nothing.
The ONLY thing he could have done was asked for supplies from the Wehrmacht
quartermaster, and this most likely would have been refused. He would have been
referred to SS camp administration.
> Kramer did nothing for three months.
Well, the documents have proven you wrong. Also, the situation grew worse by
the week, as more and more inmates were transferred to the camp…Do you follow
the situation? The problem kept INCREASING due to no fault of Kramer…..
> Ahh, so starvation was a cure for dysentery?
Do you know anything about the treatment of severe dysentery and gastro-enteritis?
The treatment is NOT to give food. In fact, when food was given to some of these
unfortunates by the British, they died. Next time, think before you ask a question, or
at least take the time to research it.
> rb
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68966 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 26 Sep 1996 08:50:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
> > >> > [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> > >> > Sure. First you give them water.
> suddently the water is potable. Apparently Giwer thinks that magicians were
> attached to British army units.
>
> > You mean the British who connected the water station to one of their
> portable
> > generators?
>
> No. Thye just turned it on.
> >
Or do you think the German EPA
> had
> > imposed sewage treatment plants on the country?
>
> Odd that it was suddenly potable when the British got there.
>
> –YFE
The water in the camp was NOT potable-with or without the British. Now, I read
that they brought potable generators with them. So, in order to reach the truth,
please post exactly HOW the British supplied water directly from the river without
first treating it?
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68967 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gorings Commision to Heydrich
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:36:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote in Message-Id
> <3246d175.17868203.news.zilker.net>
> You got it EXACTLY right, Mike. He was then presented with research by
> Hillberg, Dawidiwitz, Shirer, and Persico. He ducked it all, declared he had
> one, and abandoned the discussion.
> Fleming, Gerald. Hitler and the Final Solution. Berkeley: University of
> California Press. 1982. p119
>
> ‘Course, it don’t matter since Herr Belling has declared victory in the face
> of all the facts.
>
I don’t declare anything but the truth.
Point to whoever you want to, it doesn’t change the facts. Also, isn’t it curious
how the only people you lile to quote from are all unanimous in their antaganism
toward Germans? Also, there was an additional post to the one you refer to here.
How odd of you to ignore it….
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68968 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler suicide? Not necessarily….
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:36:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] writes to Gordon McFee::
>
> : Thomas paints a very compelling picture of a Hitler in the bunker who was
> : > completely out of control, and was in fact, mrudered by his own men, who
> : > wanted to get the hell out of there.
> :
> : Funny it didn’t happen that way.
>
> Apparently, Mr. Belling was there. We may finally have discovered
> what happened to Martin Bormann…
> Bill
You’re too clever.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:13 PDT 1996
Article: 68969 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler suicide? Not necessarily….
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:38:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
> In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>
> > > [email protected] writes to Gordon McFee::
> > >
> > > You might be interested in reading (which is why I address this only to
> > > you and not to Mr. Blackmore/Belling, who obviously is incapable of doing
> > > so)
> >
> > What am I incapable of, Miss Sara-reading a book?
> >
> > a book called _The Murder of Adolf Hitler_ by Hugh Thomas.
> > Thomas paints a very compelling picture of a Hitler in the bunker who was
> > > completely out of control, and was in fact, mrudered by his own men, who
> > > wanted to get the hell out of there.
>
> According to the “psychic” Peter Hurkos, Hitler survived the war and was
> spotted travelling through Spain. Perhaps he ended up in a convent in South
> America?
> “He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
> the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
No. The weekly world news says that he was really a woman. They even published
a photo!
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:14 PDT 1996
Article: 68970 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:42:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 23 Sep 1996 09:07:00 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> >> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
Sep 1996
> >> 22:35:46 GMT writes:
>
> >They are facts. This was addressed ages ago I have to refer you to
> >previous posts as I will not repeat myself. Any “confession” extracted by force,
> >threat, torture, or coercion is invalid.
>
> The facts are, Herr Belling, (as has been pointed out to you a hundred
> times) that any abuse Hoess suffered does not mean a (false) confession was
> extracted from him. Nor does it negate his memoirs which, were they written
> under duress, would have followed the Soviet and Polish line, which they did
> not.
>
> You can stamp your foot all you want to but you have not proven that Hoess’s
> memoirs were a result of torture. Nor have you proven that they are
> inaccurate.
>
> Your say so does not make it so, Herr Belling.
I won’t disappoint you-promise…….
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:15 PDT 1996
Article: 68975 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 08:25:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 103
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:24:46 GMT, [email protected] (John Morris)
> >wrote:
> [snip]
This was addressed to Mr. Giwer, but I thought I would include a few comments.
No. You have it about as wrong as can be. I would argue that the camps
> were lethal from the beginning but lethal for different reasons at
> different times and, yes, perhaps.
>
This is definitely erroneous. The conditions in these camps before the war were
pristine, as far as hygiene and sanitation are concerned. If you want documentation
I will be pleased to oblige. Also, thousands of people were released from the camps
throughout their long history–and, what is more, they left in good health. It was a
custom to release thousands of protective custody prisoners every year during major
holidays, such as Christmas. Also, the protective custody prisoners were initially there
to be rehabilitated, and then released. If they kept their noses clean, they did not need
to worry about rearrest. Great Britain also arrested a few thousand people and placed
them in protective custody as well. There are instances where church dignitaries visited
these camps as well in the early years, Austria in particular, and had nothing negative to
report concerning the conditions. Finally, people were even released from Auschwitz as
late as 1944-45. See: the Auschwitz Chronicles.
> But the question which is usually evaded by deniers is what most of
> the inmates were doing in those camps in the first place. Most of them
> had committed no crime which would be recognized as such by any
> civilized society.
This also is not accurate. There were THOUSANDS of criminals detained
in these camps- murderers, anti-socials, petty thiefs, swindlers, rapists, etc.
You are confusing them with those who were later arrested for “security reasons”.
The fact is the Nazis regarded the Jews as a fifth column-and felt that they
would throw in with the allies in event of a military showdown. In fact, more
and more books today are dealing with the subject of armed Jewish resistance
to the Nazis, as Jews apparently were active in the partisan movement, and
understandlably so.
I really don’t see how the Nazis could have thought otherwise. Their policies had not done
anything to secure the trust or good-will of the Jewish people. The Nazis followed the
apprehensions of their leader, who felt it was Jewish insurrectionists who
caused the collapse of the German nation in 1918-and for this reason,
Jewish people regardless of sex or age were rounded up and deported to
camps, much as Americans did to the Japanese for security reasons.
I don’t happen to agree
with the sentiments, but this was how they happened to view it.
These views were also not uncommon for the period.
There are many books available which provide additional details
for this opinion.
Now, if America had been bombed to smithereens as Germany was, perhaps the Japanese
in American camps would not have fared very well either. The American government had
no compunctions about dropping 2 atom bombs on Japanese civilians, killed hundreds of
thousands of them, so I doubt whether any particular concern would have been accorded
the incarcerated had the war turned in favor of the Axis. Also, we did not have to contend
with hundreds of thousands of POW’s infested with lice from the front as the Germans did
at Auschwitz. Remember, we had DDT and other insecticides, which were much more
effective than Zyklon B…who knows how history might have been altered had we sold
the Germans DDT? No Zyklon B-no gas chamber accusations?
> But the question which is usually evaded by deniers is what most of
> the inmates were doing in those camps in the first place.
This was not evaded. I answered you. I don’t agree with what they did
but this is what happened.
Most of them
> had committed no crime which would be recognized as such by any
> civilized society.
Apparently not, as was already discussed. The treatment was similar to America’s
treatment of the Native Americans.
. I doubt whether
> very many concentration camp inmates could say the same thing.
Undoubtedly a great number of people perished in the camps for a variety of
reasons, but documentation seems to confirm the fact that the Germans made
a good faith attempt to address these problems. They even managed to abate the
spread of typhus at Auschwitz for a period. How they did it is a matter of dispute,
which will undoubtedly be clarified as research continues. Also, since conditions
in the camps WERE so bad at the end of the war, one would hope that mankind
would learn a lesson from it all and never treat his fellow man in this manner again.
Well, this fell flat on it’s face when German civilians, men, women, and children, were
incarcerated in camps worse then those the Nazis set up. Millions perished under
horrifying conditions-and this was years after the war had officially ended.
Finally, your suggestion that the Jews were imprisoned because they “ran everything
in Germany” is a bit specious, don’t you think? The fact is, the Jews were ENCOURAGED
to emigrate from Germany, which they did by the hundreds of thousands, until the advent
of war precluded this possiblilty, one reason being that other countries refused to accept
them and another being that the Nazis felt that if they were released they would join the
armed forces of the allies to fight against Germany.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:15 PDT 1996
Article: 68978 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:47:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <525iu6[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
Sep 1996
> :>> 21:38:56 GMT writes:
> :>No problem: “Legions of Death” by Rupert Butler. Hamyln House, London.
> :>And it wasn’t the Poles or Russians, it was the British. I would expect much worse
> :>from the Poles or Russians.
>
> A citation would be useful if that is not too much trouble. I have read
> extensively on Hoess and not a single other author that I am aware of has made
> that allegation.
>
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
I will supply the quote in a day or two as well as the complete reference. Agreed?
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:16 PDT 1996
Article: 68979 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Re Hoess & rbl lies
Date: 26 Sep 1996 07:08:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:18:46 +0000, Chuck Ferree wrote:
>
> >Chuck Ferree wrotes:
> >
> >Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
> >Sent: 9/22/96 4:16 PM
> >To: [email protected]
> >
> >>Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
> >>Sent: 9/22/96 12:14 PM
> >>Received: 9/22/96 9:33 AM
> >>From: [email protected]
> >>To: [email protected]
> >
> >I don’t know why I bother with you…you are such a deceptive person.
> >You’ve even got yourself fooled that you are honest, forthright,
> >ethical, when in fact it’s just opposite.
> >
> >Another thing, which is par for the course with you…you told me you
> >would reply on alt. rev. when in fact what I saw was a post to another
> >person, with bits and pieces of our discussion with all my salient
> >points clipped out. In other words, censored by you to make yourself
> >credible. You are a phony, I know it, and everyone else knows it.
>
> Chuck, this was an excellent post. You hit the nail directly on the head and
> I just wanted to thank you for it.
Don’t be so quick to jump the gun. I have been away for a couple of days, but
I will post my second reply to this soon.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 07:47:17 PDT 1996
Article: 68990 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald heads and all
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:48:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Chuck Ferree writes:
> Chuck Ferree writes:
>
> These guys can’t make any kind of a case. So they do their tap
> dancing,
> Chuck
Well, someone has to, since Fred Astaire passed on….It looks as if
revisionists and non-revisionists are now “Cheek to Cheek” in this
department.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 14:44:25 PDT 1996
Article: 68995 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 26 Sep 1996 07:35:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd07-070.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 22 Sep 1996 12:48:38 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> #> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> #> On 17 Sep 1996 08:26:50 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> #>
> #> #> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> #> #> Sara, please don’t mock rblackmore/jbellings for
> #> #> correcting my spelling (untermench –> untermensch);
> #> #> it’s the only useful thing he ever posted.
> #> #> -Danny Keren.
> #>
> #> #And “Untermench” was the only useful thing you ever posted.
> #>
> #> Actually, it is quite useful. It allows us the understand the Nazi
> mindset
> #> and that of the scum who are apolgists for them.
> #>
> #>>>>
> #Thank you for your revealing insights. Now, how about improving on your
> #scholarship?
>
> Mine is improving all the time which is more than I can say for yours.
>
> When the goings gets tough Herr Belling cuts and runs.
>
> Ready to answer the SWC and Discovery channel question yet?
Sure, as soon as you people stop propagating lies.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 14:44:26 PDT 1996
Article: 69003 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: 18 Sep 1996 22:15:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad33-199.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # A different picture from the scenes in Buchenwald and Belsen in
> # 1945, after the allies bombed Germany into ruins, and capitalized
> # on the horrors within the camps that their own policies helped
> # to create.)
>
> Absolute rubbish.
> -Danny Keren.
I have seen photos of prisoners in 1945 who look relatively well fed at
both Dachau and Buchenwald.. They
are available and I think you are aware that they are available. The documents I
provided speak for themselves. It is true that the mortality rate was quite high,
which caused both Gluecks and Himmler to address the issue. Perhaps Konrad
Morgen should have begun his investigations much earlier. From the documents
you can see that these issues were addressed and an attempt was made in good
fatih to remedy the deplorable situation. The situation in Germany after the end
of the war was exacerbated by the continuous bombing by the Allies, who later
did indeed make propaganda out of the conditions which their policies helped to
exacerbate.
Concerning the german civilians you refer to-with whom am I to compared them
with-the people who died from typhus, dysentery, etc., or those prisoners who
were not struck by these diseases and still looked relatively healthy? You are still
attempting to utilize arguments which are directly associated to a time when living
conditions in the camps, for a number of reasons of various complexity, were
out of control. This is not fair. BTW, I have indeed seen the photos and films
>from Buchenwald and they are horrifying. I imagine that if the USA was bombed
as extensively on the west coast, as Germany was by the allies, the Japanese
we incarcerated would have ended up the same way as the unforunates at
Buchenwald.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 14:44:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69010 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:44:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd75-117.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] (tom moran) wrote:
>
> > At one time, the figures for those said to have been
> >exterminated at Auschwitz was 4 million, which at this time the
> >current number is 1 million. At least 95% of this current number are
> >said to have been Jews. The overall number of Jews said to have fallen
> >to the Holocaust has been 6,000,000 for some time. Six million when
> >the Auschwitz numbers were 4 million and still 6,000,000 with the
> >Auschwitz numbers at 1 million.
> > It is alleged that the 6 million figure was never contingent on
> >the now defunct 4 million figure.
>
> The figure of four million killed at Auschwitz appeared on the
> memorial plaque at the Auschwitz State Museum and agrees with the
> figure given by a Soviet investigating committee, a figure itself
> based upon faulty suppositions about the efficiency and rate of use of
> the Auschwitz crematoria. As has been pointed out repeatedly, few
> western historians have accepted this figure.
>
> The most careful and detailed study of the question of the Auschwitz
> death toll was undertaken by Franciszek Piper,
(snip)
John Morris
Piper was a dollar short and a day too late. All the “Soviet Extraordinary
Investigation Committee” did was to add Hoess’s 2 erroneous figures together,
which total 4 million. For more on the “Soviet Committee” see my 2 posts re:
“Soviet Def Comedy Jam”-and there are many more to follow.
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 14:44:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69024 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler suicide? What Hitler?
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:40:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] writes:
> > In <523u[email protected]> [email protected] (Ken
> McVay OBC) writes:
> The Holocaust, I mean. I’m the one who forged all the documents. Well…
> not ALL of them, I had some help.
>From what other incompetents?
>
> See, the six million missing Jews have been hiding in my basement churning
> out documents. They’re pretty good, they clean up after themselves and
> don’t eat much, but the singing has been driving me crazy.
Come on! You love it!
>
From [email protected] Thu Sep 26 14:44:28 PDT 1996
Article: 69046 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Man-O-Manusevitch-What a wine!
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:23:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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The Soviet “eyewitness” testimony of Mr. Manusevitch, all taken from Vol. VII
of the IMT:
School daze, school days….
“In the death factory of this camp special 10-day courses on corpse burning were
organized, on which 12 men were employed. Pupils attending these courses came from
the camps of Lublin, Warsaw, and others “whose names escape me”. (Quotation marks
mine). “I do not know the surnames of the pupils” (Quotation marks mine) , but they were
officers from colonels to majors to sergeant majors, not soldiers from the rank and file. The
instructor at these courses was the officer in command of the crematories, Colonel Schallok.
(Gosh, I wonder what became of him?) On the site where the bodies were exhumed and
burned he explained the practical manner of their burning and how to set up the machinery
for bone crushing. (This guy must have been “bad to the bone”.) Pg. 446.
You may read other convincing material from eyewitness Manusevitch in “Soviet Def Comedy
Jam-Part 2.” Most specifically the material concerning splitting grown men in two, freezing
them in barrels like popsicles, and swinging women to death by the roots of their hair.
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 08:57:26 PDT 1996
Article: 69235 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 26 Sep 1996 09:44:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <525jvk[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> :>> :>> First you have to prove these “beatings and torments” before you lay
> :>> :>Read the interrogation techniques used by the Soviets and Poles in “Documents
> :>> :>on the German Expulsion-Poland”, and then read John Sacks “An eye for an eye”,
> :>> :>and then use your reason to think the matter out-then get back to me.
> :>> Or are we faced with a double standard here?
> :>
> :>Yours, apparently.
>
> Yours sir. In every other case, you demand bang-on proof. But when it comes
> to your own argument, you will accept anything. The books mentioned above
> don’t even deal with the treatment of Hoess, let alone prove his testimony was
> invalid or obtained under torture. Thus, it is _you_ who employs the double
> standard.
>
> You remind me of another poster who does not use his real name.
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Mr. McFee, do you even know what you are talking about here. i have already referred
you and a half-dozen others to the proof. But, no matter-I will deal with this soon…..
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 08:57:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69281 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:52:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench
> [Quoted in “Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
> Tribunals” – Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
> VIII, p. 313-321]
> ———————————————————————-
> Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?
Whatever his interrogators told him.
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 09:32:16 PDT 1996
Article: 69576 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soviet Def Comedy Jam-Part 2.
Date: 26 Sep 1996 06:10:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 89
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Some more devastating comedy from the Soviet Prosecution’s Case at
the IMT, all taken from Volume VII:
…..”the Germans educated the Hitler Youth by training these young
fascists to shoot at living targets-at children specially handed over to
the Hitler Youth to serve as targets.”
Pg. 447.
……”the little children were martyrs. They were handed over to the Hitler
Youth who used them as living targets while learning how to shoot. No
mercy for others, all for themselves-this was the motto of the Germans.”
Pg. 447.
….”in Lvov, the Germans: Spared neither men, women, or children. The
adults were simply killed on the spot; the children were given to the Hitler
Youth for target practice.” Pg. 448.
(Imagine an ad in Germany: “It’s 10 pm. Do you know where your children are?”
How reassuring it would have been for German mothers to know that their child
was safe and sound shooting infants on the Eastern Front!)
“Apart from the shootings in Yanov Camp various forms of torture were practiced,
namely, in winter a barrel would be filled with water and a man, with hands and feet
tied, would be thrown into the barrel, where he froze to death.”
Pg. 448. (This must have been known as a “Pop” sicle.)
Men would be taken by the legs and torn in two. Page 448.
(Is this what they mean by “doing the splits”?)
Infants from 1 month to 3 years old were thrown into buckets of water and left to
drown. Pg. 448.
“Women were strung up by the hair, after first having been stripped naked, swung
in the air, and left to hang till they died.” Pg. 448.
((Absalom, oh Absolam….They must have been in a Biblical frame of mind to think
of this one! I wonder what they did with women who had “bob” cuts?
….SS Obersturmfuehrer Tumann was particularly noted for his sadistic tendencies.
He forced groups of internees to kneel in a row and then killed them by blows on
the head with a stick. Pg. 453.
“On 30 June (Wonder why they chose THAT date?) Hitler’s thugs entered the city
of Lvov, and on the very next day they started a massacre under the slogan “Kill
the Jews and the Poles”. After hundreds had been put to death the Hitler gangsters
arranged an “exhibition” of the murdered citizens by building an arcade. Pg. 454.
(Ladies and Gentlemen-step right this way! This was called “The Hitlerite Circus of
Horrors”. A big sell-out.)
“In Rostov-on-Don a pupil of the commercial school, 15 year old Vitya Cherevichny,
was playing in the yard with his pigeons. Some passing German soldiers began
to steal the birds. The boy protested. The Germans took him away and shot him, at the
corner of 27th Line and 2d Maisky Street (Are they sure it wasn’t Hollywood and Vine?)
for refusing to surrender his pigeons. (Those Soviets NEVER surrendered!) With the
heels of their boots, the Hitlerites trampled his face out of all recognition. Pg. 455.
“The village of Bassmanova, in the Glinka district of the Smolensk region, liberated
by our troops early in September was one mass of ashes after the German occupation.
On the very first day of their arrival, the fascist fiends drove into the fields over 200
schoolboys and girls who had come to the village to help with the harvesting. There
they surrounded them and savagely shot them all, A large group of schoolgirls was
abducted to the rear “for their lordships, the officers.” Pg. 455.
“In the Ukrainian village of Yomelchino in the region of Zhitomir, the Germans locked
68 people into a small hut, sealed the doors and windows and asphyxiated to death
everybody inside.” Pg. 457.
…”as the victims thus brought to the place of execution usually shouted, “Down with
Hitler,” “Long live Poland,” “Down with the Germans,” and similar things, the Germans
took steps to prevent the possibility of any such disturbances and began to fill their
mouths with cement…” Pg. 475.
“It has been ascertained from the testimony of N.H. Shoumilova that in July a German
officer shot a 6 year old boy merely because he was singing a Soviet song in the streets
of the town.” Pg. 496. (He must have been off-key.)
Last, but not least:
“A group of hostages at Celje were strangled on hooks used by the butchers for
hanging meat. In Maribor, the doomed, in groups of five, had to place the bodies of
the hostages already executed in boxes and then load them into trucks. After that,
they themselves were shot, while the next group of five, in their turn continued with
the loading. This went on continuously. Sodna Street in Maribor was all soaked in
blood pouring from the trucks.” Pg. 525.
Be sure to look for “Soviet Def Comedy Jam, Part 3” coming soon to a theatre near you….
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 09:09:18 PDT 1996
Article: 69910 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 26 Sep 1996 08:41:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad25-195.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
>
> # Now tell me, WHERE did they find enough materials? Where did
> # he testify to finding “enough materials”?
>
> Can you read, for God’s sake?
>
> ## “We found enough materials to complete a working water supply
> ## through the camp”.
> ##
> ## “Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
> ## in that camp?”
> ##
> ## “I can think of none”.
> ##
> ## Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, “The Belsen Trial”,
> ## p. 54.
>
> Learn to read, stupid. maybe someone will eventually hire you.
>
> 163 IQ he claims, yet he’s been unemployed since he was 46
> years old… Matt Giwer. What a joke.
> -Danny Keren.
You have already received the answer, yet you pretend that you did not.
The British supplied water to the camp by piping it in from the river running
near the camp. The river which Kramer thought was polluted.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 11:51:33 PDT 1996
Article: 70021 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: 29 Sep 1996 17:43:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon writes
They simply used estimates of the crematory capacity of the
> Kremas and how long they were in operation to calculate
> the Auschwitz death toll.
>
Based upon what criteria? That the Kremas were operating 24 hours a day?
> Piper was a dollar short and a day too late.
> Uh, no he wasn’t.
Uh, yes he was and is. His employers propagated a myth they knew was false for
decades, and only revised the number of the dead after their fraud was exposed by
the conscientious research of revisionists. Indeed, it was their fake figure which was taken
up by the world press and bandied about the world in “documentaries” on the Third
Reich, as well as in countless other publications. This figure was seized upon by a number
of Jewish publications as well and propagated with sincere enthusiasm. It is true that a few
historians published lower figures, such as Reitlinger, but their figures were generally ignored.
All in all, the very idea that this figure was seized upon and disseminated by the
media and certain Jewish publications, and commonly accepted by the public is
evidence of either inexcusable irresponsiblity or gross negligence, or deliberate
FRAUD. Do you seriously expect people to believe that Jewish publications which
promoted this figure were unaware of Reitlinger’s
estimates? Perhaps you believe it?
For more of the Soviet Commission’s “findings” please refer to my
posts, “Def Soviet
Comedy Jam-Parts 1 and 2.
>>>>
All this aside, the Soviet Commission’s figures were clearly
bogus, as many other historians knew long before Piper’s study.
Now, besides reiterating the commonly accepted fact that the
> 4 million figure was inflated, was there some other point
> you were trying to make?
If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe the message?
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 12:51:22 PDT 1996
Article: 70023 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports – OSR USSR #45
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:12:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> The Chief of the Security Police and the SD
>
> Berlin, August 7, 1941
Your point?
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 12:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 70030 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:36:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected]` (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 26 Sep 1996 07:35:53 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> ## [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> The lie was yours, Herr Belling, and when confronted with it you ran from
> it. You made accusations you cannot prove. Either proove them or retract
> them.
First prove your accusations re the Holocaust. Don’t digress.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 12:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 70032 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘kurtzi’ stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:35:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
>
> [big snip]
>
> > > Ready to answer the SWC and Discovery channel question yet?
>
> > Sure, as soon as you people stop propagating lies.
>
> You mean lies like the ones you made about the Simon Wiesenthal Center ?
> In case you have forgotten, I’ll refresh your memory:
>
> In a recent email, later posted to the Usenet, you made the following claim
> about the SWC:
>
> “What do you say to the fact that many Jewish publications also quoted
> this 4,000,000 figure for YEARS until the research made primarily by
> revisionist scholars embarrassed the hell out of them. Why did the Simon
> Wiesenthal Center keep silent on this figure until recently? Could MONEY
> have anything to do with it?”
>
> You have yet to answer the following questions without prevarication:
>
> (1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding the SWC
> (2) where is the proof for the following:
> (a) that the SWC promoted the figure of 4 million knowing it was wrong
> (b) that this was done for money
> (3) when you can’t provide that proof, you are requested to revist part
> 1 and supply the truth.
It’s not a lie. It is my opinion.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 14:14:14 PDT 1996
Article: 70040 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes–faked?
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:22:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, wrote:
> And there are thousands of books which reprint German documents about
> gassing. Why do you claim those documents are debatable (i.e., Soviet
> forgeries) but the authenticity of Ehrenburg’s statement about raping
> German women is not debatable? Do I detect an inconsistency in your
> standards of evidence here? (Do I ask rhetorical questions?)
> Interesting; the New Republic article also said he was never actually
> a member of the Party, though of course he did work for it.
>
> Posted/emailed.
Well, it really isn’t important if Mr. E. was a member of the Party or not, he was still
considered to be a “chief theoretrician” of the same. And I hope that there is no
inconsistency in my methods of research. I will simply refer people to back issues
of “Pravda”, where Mr. E’s statements were publicly quoted in reference. I also encourage
people to research Mr. E’s statements in his own writings, which should be available
at any major research library. The next time I visit one, I will look them up, unless someone
else beats me to it.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 14:14:16 PDT 1996
Article: 70045 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:46:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd35-199.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>
> This is highly disingenuous. There is a big difference between the
> medical condition of the German population and the inmates in the camp,
> and the point about the noose is wholly specious.
No. I refer to the millions of Germans who were incarcerated in concentration
camps throughout Europe after the war had ended. I suggest reading “An eye
for an eye” by John Sack. When you read it, or IF you read it, I would be curious
in hearing your opinion.
> If supplies to the area were disrupted, the starvation and disease
> should have been widespread, not limited to the prisioner population. They
> did not build special railroads for prisoner-only food which got bombed,
> while leaving the guards-and-civilians food railways unbombed.
One would have to research this question thoroughly and right now I do not
have the time. I wish I did. Briefly, I will simply state that there was indeed
danger of contagion to the population if a disease like typhus began to run
rampant. Thousands were ill from dysentery and gastro-enteritis, and I believe
that some form of physical contact is necessary for these to spread. Also, I do not
believe the local populace was receving it’s rations from Wehrmacht supply depots,
as was the camp. Whether this addresses your question the way you would like
I do not know, but if you have further statements to make I will try and research them
when I have the time.
>
> You have failed to address this very valid point.
>
> Posted/emailed.
> —
> Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 14:14:17 PDT 1996
Article: 70046 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:33:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51t92e[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>For the information of all those who have argued so vigourously for the
> :>opinion that “Der Stuermer” was one of Hitler’s favorite reading materials,
> :>I should like to point out the fact that on May 1, 1939, Streicher published
> :>what was probably the most flagrantly offensive issue of the Stuermer in its
> :>long and chequered history, that issue being the “Jewish Ritual Murder”
> :>edition. For the benefit of the browsers, as well as those who imagine Hitler
> :>to have been delighted with Streicher’s offal, the issue was almost immediately
> :>BANNED–by none other than Hitler himself!
>
> Mr. Blackmore, please follow your own rules and give a source. You are wrong
> on almost everything you say in the preceding paragraph, starting with the
> year the issue was published and you conveniently neglect to mention _why_
> Hitler, finally, agreed with a _partial_ ban, after the issue had already been
> distributed. You can do better.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
I gave the source. It came from a committed anti-revisionist source in Germany.
I don’t have the title on hand right now, but it was posted. If there is any error in any
of the above, address your concerns to them. If you have information which contradicts
their statements, I would love to see it.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 14:14:18 PDT 1996
Article: 70047 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:34:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd78-155.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
>
> > > Details are in the pudding, but Belling/Blackmore never provides any.
>
> > Mike-please stop telling people I do not provide. I will provide when asked.
>
> Pardon my french, but this is a load of bull. You NEVER provided me
> anything, and I have asked you countles times.
>
> In a recent email, later posted to the Usenet, you made the following claim
> about the SWC:
>
> “What do you say to the fact that many Jewish publications also quoted
> this 4,000,000 figure for YEARS until the research made primarily by
> revisionist scholars embarrassed the hell out of them. Why did the Simon
> Wiesenthal Center keep silent on this figure until recently? Could MONEY
> have anything to do with it?”
>
> You have yet to answer the following questions without prevarication:
>
> (1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding the SWC
> (2) where is the proof for the following:
> (a) that the SWC promoted the figure of 4 million knowing it was wrong
> (b) that this was done for money
> (3) when you can’t provide that proof, you are requested to revist part
> 1 and supply the truth.
>
> [snip]
Oh. It was you.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 15:13:11 PDT 1996
Article: 70056 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More The Truth About French Jews
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:28:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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By the time France was
> liberated, 90,000 of the pre-war
> Jewish population in France had been killed.
Whether they were killed or not is debateable. However, the figure I gave of 25%
was correct. Thanks.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 15:13:12 PDT 1996
Article: 70057 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes–faked?
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:25:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References:
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Somehow
> I doubt you’ll be honest enough to own up to getting them from some other
> apologist for the Nazis.
Before I reply, why did you make the above statement? This comment was based upon
what facts? By the way, I will supply you with the info you requested, and it will not be
>from “Nazi apologists”……sorry to shatter your illusions—-again.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 15:13:12 PDT 1996
Article: 70058 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ‘Show Trials’? No, Just Another ‘Revisionist’ Lie
Date: 29 Sep 1996 17:20:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (aka “jbelling”) writes:
>
> # So pleased to see that you brought the case of Irma Grese up.
>
> Yes, it’s fascinating. Here we have the Nazi trashies whining
> about how the trials of Nazi criminals were “show trials”, in
> which the accused were told what to say, and we have an
> accused Nazi calling the prosecutor and the survivors “liars”.
>
> The myth of the “show trials” is going down the toilet,
> for sure, together with the rest of the “revisionist” rubbish.
> -Danny Keren.
Are you talking to yourself here, or just ranting in general? Indeed,
many of the survivors and prosecutors were liars, and the purpose of
these debates is to expose their lies for all to see. By the time we are
through with our expose’, the emperors shall indeed be without any clothes.
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 15:13:13 PDT 1996
Article: 70060 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes faked?
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:16:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>
> : > Can anyone out there post Ehrenburg’s anti-German exhortations
> : > together with a checkable primary source? If not, I think we
> : > should all assume that such quotes are bogus.
>
> : They are not a forgery. Nice try, though. But I can think of a few real
> : forgeries……
>
> In other words, no. Mr. Belling cannot post Ehrenburg’s anti-German
> exhortations together with a checkable primary source. He asserts,
> however, that they are not forged–and his assertion should be good
> enough for us Holohuggers.
>
> Bill
Well, since you are so insistent, and think that you have finally “caught” me, I
will simply refer you to back issues of “Pravda” where Ehrenburg’s comments
were openly discussed at the time. Good luck. It’s out there, but I don’t have time
to do your research for you. Sorry. Also, you might want to visit a public library and
ask for some of Ehrenburg’s publications, especially those dealing with the second
world war. Then, get back to us.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:39 PDT 1996
Article: 70083 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:23:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <523k7r$l9[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 14:59:07 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> :>> [email protected] wrote:
> :>>
:>Uh-when have I ever quoted Butz?
>
> You have quoted most of the rest of them. I assume Butz can’t be far behind.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Great. Glad to see you brought this up. Would you mind listing them?
Please list them….I am curious to see this list……
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:40 PDT 1996
Article: 70088 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes faked?
Date: 30 Sep 1996 01:59:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>
> : > Can anyone out there post Ehrenburg’s anti-German exhortations
> : > together with a checkable primary source? If not, I think we
> : > should all assume that such quotes are bogus.
>
> : They are not a forgery. Nice try, though. But I can think of a few real
> : forgeries……
>
> In other words, no. Mr. Belling cannot post Ehrenburg’s anti-German
> exhortations together with a checkable primary source. He asserts,
> however, that they are not forged–and his assertion should be good
> enough for us Holohuggers.
>
> Bill
Ok, Bill: Here are the sources which you said I could or would not ever come up with-
1. A Primary Source-You will find a photostatic copy of one of Ilya Ehrenburg’s hate
tracts fully reproduced in the book: Ehren Buch des Deutschen Soldaten, FZ Verlag,
Munich, Germany, 1985. You can’t get more unequivocal than that.
2. Primary Source 2: Further copies of Ehrenburg’s tracts may be located in the
Foreign Office, Records Dept. in Bonn, Germany. The documents are classified
within the Polish archives section.
3. An Ehrenburg tract is reproduced verbatim in Karl Doenitz’s memoirs.
4. His memoirs were published in 1963 by the Moscow Literary magazine, Novy Mir.
Here is a direct quote: “Our hatred grew all the greater because they look like human
beings, they laugh, they stroke a dog or a horse…they are….disguised as human beings.
Lanky and ugly, with square, brutish skulls, with eyes that seem like murky glass,….
5. Here is an excerpt from the book, “The Unloved Germans”, by Hermann Eich, published
by Stein and Day, N.Y., 1965:
“In Ehrenburg’s book The War, published in Moscow in 1944, the Germans are “clockwork
automata”. Ehrenburg substantiated the orders to kill them (German civilians) on sight by
citing atrocity reports based not only on the horrors of the time but on texts borrowed from
WWI. The “boiled human heads” put in an appearance again…..On 14th June 1940, when
watching the German troops enter Paris he claimed to have seen “the blood of crushed
children” still sticking to the tank tracks…..Ehrenburg was unquestionably one of those
responsible for inciting a degree of hatred unique in any theatre of WWII.” Page 154.
Now, aren’t you glad you brought this subject up? I am.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:41 PDT 1996
Article: 70089 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:10:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 197
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> Brian Harmon writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > >
> […]
> you would have me believe
> was a caring Kommandant trying to make the best of a bad
> situation.
Please do not place words in my mouth. I never referred to Kramer as a
“caring commander”. I simply stated that it appears to me that he was a
victim of circumstances according to the documentation I have reviewed.
I don’t want to “have” you believe anything. I encourage you to think for
yourself, as I have done after reviewing all the documentation.>
> I never said that.
It was implied.
>
> It is rather telling that the British were able to restore food and
> water within days,
]
> Kramer had three months, and nothing was done.
I thought this was already addressed?
> Also, the testimony of Harold Ledruillence, an American prisoner in
> the camp ’employed’ as a corpse carrier mentions that inmates
> (including him) were not allowed to touch water despite the
> fact that they were dying of thirst.
Well, I would need to review his comments. Where may this be found?
What reason was given for this refusal and by whom was it directly ordered?
> > > I don’t believe these letters exist. prove me wrong.
> >
> > They exist. Read Reitlinger, he confirms it. Now that you are proven wrong, what do
> > you say?
>
> No, now all i have is you insisting that Reitlinger wrote about these
> letters.
>
> Please quote Reitlinger and provide a cite. If proving me wrong is
> what it takes to make you cite things properly, i’ll be very happy.
I don’t have it handy right now, but you may find it in Reitlingers, “The Final Solution”.
Refer to the index under Kramer. All is there.
>
>
> I went looking for web pages discussing treatments for dysentery, and they
> do infact mention that food should be withheld from dysentery patients.
Yes. I am not trying to deceive anyone here. I simply think that the circumstances
surrounding particularly abhorrent accusations should be researched completely. This
is how I define my own particular type of “revisionism”. If the facts prove the allegations
to be true, then so be it. I have no problem with stating so openly. I am just trying to
show people that there may have been mitigating circumstances involved with some of
these questions.
>
> They make no mention of withholding water from these patients, and in fact
> it is necessary that these patients receive plenty of water.
>
> Even more interesting, while the page i’m about to quote mentions that
> food should be withheld, it’s clear from what they’re saying that they mean
> solid food:
>
> Dietary Treatment
> Consult your doctor to make sure these recommendations are right for your needs.
> Gatorade can also be used to protect against electrolyte imbalance
>
> ==============
>
> Notice that the treatment does _not_ say that all nutrition should be withheld
> from dysentary patients. Instead, it mentions that a diet of broths and non-solid
> food should be used to maintain nutrition.
Yes. This seems to be correct. However, the water at Belsen was contaminated. Kramer
testified that he believed the water from the river flowing nearby was polluted. And it
seems that he had good reason to believe so, as the water in Europe has been severely
polluted for decades. Mr. Giwer brought up a good point when he mentioned that the
river water had to have been treated by special filters in order to pump it into the camp
and make it potable. Yale Edeiken says no, and he originally advised that all Kramer
need have done was remove putrifying corpses from the water tanks and then allow
everyone access to drink at will-regardless of the floating turds, urine, vomit, etc. I
believe this was one of the main reasons WHY Kramer sought to arrange for the
peaceful transfer of the camp to the British authorities ASAP. It only makes sense.
Kramer did not have the facilities to treat the river water.
>
> Now, I’ll ask you one more time…. since _when_ is starvation a treatment for
> dysentery?
And I will answer you directly-as I have already done. Starvation is not the treatment.
Neither is solid food. These people also suffered from gastro-enteritis. They needed
immediate transfusions as well as clean water, rest, and antibiotics. Kramer did not have
the resources to deal with these overwhelming problems, which is why he arranged for
the surrender of the camp ASAP.
>
> > > > And according to your same source, the children were fortunately in a state of
> > > > fairly good health.
> > >
> > > Where? it’s not in the selection included at nizkor.
> Yes, i’d like the page number and a quote, please.
Of course. Page # 32. Quote: (Examinatiion of British Officer Brigadier Glyn Hughes)
Q.- Were there any children in or about this compound?
A: There was a small compound of children who were in fairly good condition, and
obviously the women internees had sacrificed themselves to look after them. The
hospital compound was very well run by the internee doctors-very well run.
End of quote. Now, not only were the children saved by separating them from the
masses of terminally ill persons transferred into the camp, but this separation had to
have been carried out on the orders of Kramer. If the intent was to let everyone die,
the children would not have been protected from the infectious prisoners by isolating
them. Now, let’s see if anyone
allows Kramer to receive any credit for helping to save the lives of the children….
> ..and yet the corpses were piled everywhere, and no one was given water.
>
> Why?
The corpses were piled everywhere because Kramer had been thrown into a
hopeless situation by his superiors. Thousands upon thousands of terminally illl
and infected prisoners were dispatched from camps all over Germany and sections
of Poland into Belsen. All this in a camp built to accomodate a tenth of their number!
And within a three month period!
The guilt was clearly with Kramer’s superiors. The water was contaminated. There
may have even been damage to the water equipment. The conditions in this camp
prior to December 1944 were more or less clean and orderly. When these thousands
of seriously ill inmates were transferred to Belsen, along with the general chaos reigning
throughout all of Germany at the time, the combination proved to be a catastrophe which
was ultimately calculated in human lives.
>
> > > > > Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
> Kramer said: Let them die, why should you care?
Did you read my post? You have no proof other than Ehlert to substantiate
this absurd claim. This quote coming from a petty thief as it does. Ehlert was
one who deserved her sentence, in my opinion.
> > > It still doesn’t change the fact that Kramer let them starve.
No, the majority were ill and starving when they got there, He wasn’t the cause.
> No, he certainly had personell in the camp that were responsible for
> perparing food,
Apparently this is true, and it seems as though the prisoners who had been initally
accomodated in the camp were not in favor of dividing their rations with the newcomers,
which resulted in a series of violent encounters among the inmates. Some of these
incidents led to shootings. However, it was also mentioned that Kramer ordered some of
the stronger and healthier inmates to go out and dig potatoes to add to the thin soups.
Apparently this was not being done by those in charge of the kitchens before it was
brought to Kramer’s attention.
>
> > > Kramer did nothing for three months.
> >
> > Well, the documents have proven you wrong.
>
> Oh yes, i’m sorry, Kramer wrote a letter.
Why don’t you read his letter, and then place yourself in his shoes….Remember
the quote about walking in another Indians moccasins? Why don’t you try it?
Then let’s see how honest you can be…..
>
> What a hero.
He wasn’t a hero, but he wasn’t to blame either.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:42 PDT 1996
Article: 70092 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:38:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51t8bm[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> Brian Harmon writes:
> :>> [email protected] wrote:
> :>> >
> :>> > > Brian Harmon writes:
> :>> [..]
> :>> > This is indeed a good point, which I do not have an answer for at the moment.
> :>>
> :> His testimony agrees with other descriptions
> :>> of Auschwitz (for example, Pery Broad, Filip Muller),
> :>I must say that Filip Mueller is far from being a reliable witness, in my opinion.
> :>As to Pery Broad, he changed his testimony several times. I find him unreliable
> :>as well.
>
> Mr. Blackmore, you are violating your own rules more and more every day. One
> begins to suspect there is a double standard at play here. It’s not good
> enough to dismiss a witness simply because you find him “unreliable”. Perhaps
> you could enlighten us as to _why_ you find him unreliable.
>
> [rest deleted]
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Well, yes, I could….but I don’t have the time to do so right now. I will refer you
to Mr. Mueller’s testimony at the Zundel trial and ask you to read through it and
then get back to me…..
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:43 PDT 1996
Article: 70094 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:33:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> > > [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> > >
> > > Yours sir. In every other case, you demand bang-on proof. But when it comes
> > > to your own argument, you will accept anything. The books mentioned above
> > > don’t even deal with the treatment of Hoess, let alone prove his testimony was
> > > invalid or obtained under torture. Thus, it is _you_ who employs the double
> > > standard.
>
> > Mr. McFee, do you even know what you are talking about here. i have already
> referred
> > you and a half-dozen others to the proof. But, no matter-I will deal with this soon…..
>
> No. You have, in fact, stated your statements were based on “reasonable
> suspicions.”
>
> –YFE
Yes, based upon facts.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:43 PDT 1996
Article: 70095 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:38:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:
>
> >In message <51t8bm[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> >:>
> >:>> Brian Harmon writes:
> >:>> [email protected] wrote:
> >:>> >
> >:>> > > Brian Harmon writes:
> >:>> [..]
> >:>> > > >>>>
> >:>> > This is indeed a good point, which I do not have an answer for at the moment.
> >:>>
> >:> His testimony agrees with other descriptions
> >:>> of Auschwitz (for example, Pery Broad, Filip Muller),
> >:>
> >:>
> >:>I must say that Filip Mueller is far from being a reliable witness, in my opinion.
> >:>As to Pery Broad, he changed his testimony several times. I find him unreliable
> >:>as well.
> >
> >Mr. Blackmore, you are violating your own rules more and more every day. One
> >begins to suspect there is a double standard at play here. It’s not good
> >enough to dismiss a witness simply because you find him “unreliable”. Perhaps
> >you could enlighten us as to _why_ you find him unreliable.
> Hey, it’s hot here! I’m getting cooled off by all this hand-waving.:-)
>>>>
What are you gibbering about? I have a life besides alt. revisionism,.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:44 PDT 1996
Article: 70096 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBelling is still a troll… Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:30:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lpm4$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:06:12 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> :>> snip
> :>>
> :>> -Danny Keren.
> :>Your conclusion is far from infallible, Neither you nor I will ever know the
> :>circumstances surrounding the so-called Hoess memoirs, but based upon the
> :>track record of the Soviets, I would say I have the edge.
>
> Sorry, Mr. Blackmore, you don’t have the edge just because you claim you do.
> You have not yet lived up to the Blackmore standard of proof.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
It is coming,,,,,just be patient…….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:45 PDT 1996
Article: 70097 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:32:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lr30$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:30:08 GMT writes:
> Hitler subscribed to _Der Stuermer_. When I answer that such a demand is
> silly, you go all over the lot. The point is, as I said previously, that
> Hitler _read_ Streicher’s newspaper. That Hitler would ban Streicher from
> speaking is hardly surprising in that Streicher had managed to cross Goering.
> But that did not lessen Hitler’s admiration for Streicher, the proof of which
> is in the _Tischgespraeche_.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Well, for all of that it proves nothing of interest….at least not to me.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:46 PDT 1996
Article: 70099 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:51:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51qerq$m8[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 03:32:10 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> :>> [email protected] wrote:
> :>> : > [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> :>>
> :>> : > No, that gibberish was directed at me. When gibberish is being
> :>> : > directed at you, you’ll usually see the quoted text attributed to
> :>> : > you.
> :>> : >
> :>> : > Under one of your four names.
> :>>
> :>> : Which four names are those, pray tell?
> :>>
> :>> Well, there’s RBlackmore, and JBelling, and RBelling…
> :>>
> :>> I apologize. Under one of your three names.
> :>>
> :>> Bill
> :>You may have missed a few.
>
> Indeed. And we know what they are, don’t we Mr. Blackmore?
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Who is “we”, Mr. McFee or is it Mr. ?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:46 PDT 1996
Article: 70100 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – PORNOGRAPHER
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:48:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
: :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee to Blackmore) Blackmore:
> :>>
> :>Please refer to my recent post “Der Stuermer”-Hitler’s Favorite Mag?
>
, pointing out that there are at least 5
> mistakes in the quotation that you obviously lifted from a very bad source.
The source is uncommonly good, from your perspectives, actually.
>
> But on the issue of whether Hitler liked _Der Stuermer_, how do you explain
> the following remark of Hermann Rauschning?
How do you explain that Rauschning has since been proven to have been a fabricator
and liar. Go ahead, ask me how I know.
(Rauschning’s lies and fabrications snipped)
>
> And in answer to your tired old implication that Streicher had no influence
> because circulation of _Der Stuermer_ dropped after 1940, have you ever
> wondered _why_ circulation dropped after 1940?
What you posted is not very interesting. I am only interested in facts, and not interpretations.
I don’t want this to degenerate into a theological squabble. fact is-he had no influence-even
party members thought he was a lunatic, as can be seen from reading the Von Hassell diaries.
By the way, someone told me that you are using a pseudonym-is this true?
“In all this world, there is nothing more upsetting than the clobbering of
a cherished belief.” Charles M. Schultz
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:47 PDT 1996
Article: 70101 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:50:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <525kfs[email protected]> – [email protected] writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> Mr. Blackmore, your insistence on sources and quotes is starting to look very
> :>> phoney with posts of this kind. Certainly a fellow who can “handle” 50 of us
> :>> with ease would be good enough to quote enough of the post in question so
> :>> people know what he is talking about.
> :>
> :>Nope. You outnumber me. I have to have a few advantages besides the truth.
>
> Then you obviously do not want real discussion. Sorry to have been so stupid
> as to believe you did.
>
> Perhaps if the truth really _were_ part of your arsenal, you would be
> confident enough to be a little more forthcoming and a little less sneaky.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Someone told me that you are Mark Van Alstine posting under a different name. Is
this true? if so, who is being sneaky?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:48 PDT 1996
Article: 70104 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:40:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected]` (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 26 Sep 1996 09:42:43 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >> On 23 Sep 1996 09:07:00 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> >> >> In message <[email protected]> – [email protected]
Sep 1996
> >> >> 22:35:46 GMT writes:
> >>
> >> >They are facts. This was addressed ages ago I have to refer you to
> >> >previous posts as I will not repeat myself. Any “confession” extracted by force,
> >> >threat, torture, or coercion is invalid.
> >>
> >> The facts are, Herr Belling, (as has been pointed out to you a hundred
> >> times) that any abuse Hoess suffered does not mean a (false) confession was
> >> extracted from him. Nor does it negate his memoirs which, were they written
> >> under duress, would have followed the Soviet and Polish line, which they did
> >> not.
> >>
> >> You can stamp your foot all you want to but you have not proven that Hoess’s
> >> memoirs were a result of torture. Nor have you proven that they are
> >> inaccurate.
> >>
> >> Your say so does not make it so, Herr Belling.
> >I won’t disappoint you-promise…….
>
> For some reason, I don’t believe you. I am sure I will be disappointed. Your
> failure to post anything of substance up to this points does not bode well
> for any future efforts from you.
Are you really this pathetic or do you just put up a good front?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:49 PDT 1996
Article: 70111 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Wicked old Nazi Witch and the Gingerbread House
Date: 30 Sep 1996 06:16:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> [Lame jokes about Nazi atrocities]
>
> You seem to suggest the atrocities described in these
> testimonies are “impossible”. However –
> -Danny Keren.
Dan, do you have concentration or focus problems? What has all this to
do with what I posted-address THAT why don’t you? For once-address the issue
under discussion-for once??? Pretty please…..You know, it doesn’t look too good
for holocaustmania when you take the info I posted above and add it to another, and
another, and another……If you can’t believe the messengers, how can you believe
the message?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:49 PDT 1996
Article: 70117 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:55:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lrlo$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:40:08 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> :>> You were wrong in your characterization of what I wrote and why I wrote it.
> :>> To use _your_ methodology, I hereby declare victory because I declare it. I
> :>> win.
>
> :>OK, you win.
>
> That’s more like it, Mr. Blackmore.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Sure. Whatever gets you through the night……
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:50 PDT 1996
Article: 70118 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsy reports of gassing where there were no gas chambers
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:59:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:52:03 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:
> >
> >>[email protected] wrote:
> You tell me then, what are exact words concerning this in Larson’s
> post?
>
> > Beyond that YFE is claiming to have the document that contains them in what
> >comes PRIOR to what has been posted here.
> >
> > It is simply a matter of calling his bluff. The man is lying about it.
> How is he lying about it?
Where are the reports?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:51 PDT 1996
Article: 70120 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:57:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >> cross-examination. What makes you think that the toxilogical reports (which were
> >> rendered by a laboratory in Paris) were not part of his report?
> >>
> >> –YFE
> >Originials, please.
>
> Here! In this forum?!? Get thee to the National Archives and do the
> comparisons yourself. If you feel that Larson was not qualified as an
> expert then present your evidence. If you feel that the evidence was
> not properly put into evidence (per-1940 law) then provide your
> evidence.
Don’t need to. You’re making the accusation. Now prove it.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:51 PDT 1996
Article: 70121 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:32:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
>
> [re: the positive reception in Germany of Goldhagen’s lecture tour]
>
> >> That Germans are willing to look at the horrors that antisemitism brought to
> >> Germany and the world? That they do not feel any compelling need to be nazi
> >> apologists? That unlike the lunatic fringe in North America they are willing
> >> to face their country’s past squarely?
>
> >I suppose like Germar Rudolf, Thies Christopherson, and Wilhelm Staeglich?
>
> How is denying their own country’s past looking squarely. . . ?
>
> Oh, never mind.
>
> —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
> —
> The Nizkor Project | https://nizkor.org/
>
>>>>
Indeed, never mind.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:52 PDT 1996
Article: 70123 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsy reports of gassing where there were no gas chambers
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:58:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:52:03 GMT, [email protected] (Mike Curtis) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >>> cross-examination. What makes you think that the toxilogical reports
(which were
> >>> rendered by a laboratory in Paris) were not part of his report?
> >>>
> >>> –YFE
> >>Originials, please.
>
> >Here! In this forum?!? Get thee to the National Archives and do the
> >comparisons yourself. If you feel that Larson was not qualified as an
> >expert then present your evidence. If you feel that the evidence was
> >not properly put into evidence (per-1940 law) then provide your
> >evidence.
>
> Not only is does the subject make the claim that there are autopsy reports it is
> clear that by the timing events that even if there had at one time been a gas
> chamber there, liberation came much too late to autopsy the bodies.
>
> Beyond that YFE is claiming to have the document that contains them in what
> comes PRIOR to what has been posted here.
>
> It is simply a matter of calling his bluff. The man is lying about it.
> =====
> Read the information holohuggers fear
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.webcom.com/~zundel (Page doesn`t exist)
As all can see….hmmm, wonder what else they lie about……?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:53 PDT 1996
Article: 70124 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud’s for you, part 2
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:03:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lskq$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 09:56:42 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> In message <515sm4$6v[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> :>> 08:19:16 GMT writes:
> :>> :>
> :>> :>> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Now who is topping you from reading them?
> :>> :>Indeed, I have read some of the material. However, in this issue I desire to
> :>> :>read the actual written reports themselves, as well as the results of the chemical
> :>> :>testings which were supposedly done. You are intelligent enough to understand
> :>> :>why these reports, if they exist, are preferable over testimony.
> :>>
> :>> I think what Mr. Edeiken is saying is that if you want to read the reports,
> :>> find them yourself. He is not about to do your research for you.
>
> :>I have just heard from Mr. E. in full, but thank you for your instructional comments.
> :>However, I think I will have a difficult time finding reports which don’t seem to exist.
>
> Now, now, the expert exists. He has been cited. It should be easy to find
> the whole thing.
>
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Now, now, why do you support flagrant lies? There is no autopsy report and there are
NO toxicological reports. If so, they would have been posted ages ago.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:54 PDT 1996
Article: 70129 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Re Hoess & rbl lies
Date: 29 Sep 1996 18:31:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> Why not? As soon as you do someone will jump in and quickly point out your
> deficiencies again and I will again thank them.
Ken, you’re a laugh riot.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:54 PDT 1996
Article: 70135 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:40:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
You’ll do much better with original documents,
> eye-witness accounts and physical evidence than rehashings and
> opinions. >>>>
That’s what I keep telling you….now, where is it? Why don’t we address eye-witness
accounts-oh, I already have in Soviet Def Comedy Jam which no one would touch with
a ten foot pole. Better luck next time. I think I will start dealling with your eyewitness
testimonies in depth soon. you may end up regretting your suggestion….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:55 PDT 1996
Article: 70136 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:25:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected]
Apologist, one who explains. You prefer the horror story of pure evil like a
> superstitious peasant.
>
> =====
> Read the information holohuggers fear
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.codoh.com/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> http://www.webcom.com/~zundel (Page doesn`t exist)
And I will say it again: Kramer was a victim of circumstances.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:56 PDT 1996
Article: 70137 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler suicide? Not necessarily….
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:29:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
> : > [email protected] (william c anderson) writes:
> : > [email protected] wrote:
> : > : > [email protected] writes to Gordon McFee::
> : >
> : > : Thomas paints a very compelling picture of a Hitler in the bunker who was
> : > : > completely out of control, and was in fact, mrudered by his own men, who
> : > : > wanted to get the hell out of there.
> : > :
> : > : Funny it didn’t happen that way.
> : >
> : > Apparently, Mr. Belling was there. We may finally have discovered
> : > what happened to Martin Bormann…
>
> : You’re too clever.
>
> Yes, I am. Thank you.
>
> Now, are you going to explain to us how you know what happened in
> Hitler’s bunker?
>
> Bill
Read a few books, William. Specifically, you might want to research the statements
of all those who were present in the bunker during the final days. By the way, did
I ever mention that I am clairvoyant?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:57 PDT 1996
Article: 70138 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Christain, AND MARX WAS A JEW
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:34:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Dwight R. Welch) writes:
> xnews9.ix.netcom.com> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <5[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
> Distribution:
>
> Beth ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> : The communists killed more people on earth than anyone else. Jews under
> : a communist banner are the worlds largest and most evil mass murdering
> : filth in history.
>
> um..sorry among those targeted for killing by Stalin were Jews, perhaps
> you were to young to remember when Jews were trying to flee the Soviet
> Union, nope..not many jews in china or cuba
> isn’t it a pain when facts can get in the way of our bigotries?
>
> Dwight
> Faith and Social Justice Page
> http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/1764 (Page doesn`t exist)
>
>>>>
Do you mean like Capone got rid of his henchmen on St. Valentine’s Day, or
when Hitler ordered the execution of Roehm and his adherents?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:57 PDT 1996
Article: 70141 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:36:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
> [re: Goldhagen’s lecture tour of Germany]
> [snip]
>
> >> There was a report on “All Things Considered” which interviewed several
> >> Germans who had been at the debate. The gist of theri answers was that it was the
> >> first time they had been presented with a credible explanation of why people
> >> participated in the Holocaust rather than just the fact that it happened. Assuming
> >> that was true, I would attribute it to lousy teachers.
>
> >Were these German Jews or Germans?
>
>Thanks for your thoughts on this matter, but they ARE YOUR thoughts, after all.
Now, prove that the “Holocaust” occurred exactly as we have been told, and then
I would be most pleased to address your definiton.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:58 PDT 1996
Article: 70142 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK IT’S NAME
Date: 30 Sep 1996 06:08:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51qfm9$m8[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 03:46:17 GMT writes:
> :>
> [deleted]
>
> :>Mr. McFee, you really are stretching it here. There is no evidence, as I have
> :>already pointed out, to indicate that Streicher’s rag was more influential than
> :>the public incitements of Ehrenburg, for reasons already pointed out.
>
> There is no evidence _in your opinion_ to indicate that Streicher’s newspaper
> was more influential than the public incitements of Ehrenburg.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Afraid there is……and plenty of it…..now you know what it is like to state an
opinion truthfully….your friends at Nizkor don’t like it. have you learned your
lesson now? Will you behave properly in the future? Time will tell….but you
will buckle-it seems that you already have, and it will not go unnoticed by others.
I didn’t mean to embarrass you-but a point has been made concerning the tactics
of professional “believers” who will promulgate any lie as long as it supports their
cause.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:32:59 PDT 1996
Article: 70143 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Christain, AND MARX WAS A JEW
Date: 30 Sep 1996 03:32:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:00 PDT 1996
Article: 70144 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher’s Crime against Humanity
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:57:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> > All my opinion only.
>
> And one though I respect, I disagree with in this instance.
>
> Mark
>
> posted/e-mailed
What else could be expected from a true believer?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:00 PDT 1996
Article: 70145 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher-PORNOGRAPHER-THE FINAL ROUND & TKO
Date: 30 Sep 1996 06:05:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> OK, Mr. “Blackmore”. I admit I fell for it for awhile. You are just another
> Nazi troller. The Hitler quote is transcribed–you look it up. I gave the
> source. Second, I read your message. It’s rubbish and I have already
> rebutted it.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
>
Say what you will-unimportant to me. Fact is, you received some heat for simply
stating what any normal; thinking person would think after confronted with the
evidence. And, you go ahead and call my research sloppy if you like, but I am
years ahead of the game. I don’t do sloppy work, and that’s what has the Nizkorites
in a tizzy. It’s about time someone called their bluff, and exposed them for the liars
they seem to be….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:01 PDT 1996
Article: 70146 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher and Spinoza
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:51:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Bodhisattva) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> > > On 14 Sep 1996 07:06:23 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> > > #I answer on my terms. Not yours.
> > >
> > > Translation. I won’t answer.
> > For once you are 100% correct.
>
> And he still hasn’t read Spinoza.
Wrong.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:02 PDT 1996
Article: 70147 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg’s SS Amon Goth?,2-Mark Van Alstine’s Strike 1
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:49:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
> In message <51lu0k$4d[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> 10:20:04 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
>
> :>> It seems that one of the facts of life is that the winners win and the losers
> :>> lose. Has it not always been thus? The victors try the vanquished. Who else
> :>> was supposed to try the vanquished, by the way? Certainly not the German
> :>> government, which ceased to exist at the time of unconditional surrender.
> :>> Germany had basically taken the world on and lost. Perhaps Sweden or
> :>> Switzerland should have conducted the trials?
> :>
> :>> Certainly a kangaroo court would have executed the lot (e.g. the Stalin show
> :>> trials in the 1930s).
> :>>
> :>> Well, this one had to give the semblance of a fair trial.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> This line was not in my post, Mr. Blackmore. Just what the hell are you up
> to?
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Correct. My error. It was my comment and should have gone underneath your name.
My apologies.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:03 PDT 1996
Article: 70156 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviet Def Comedy Jam
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:46:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
> >> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >
> >> If you read any good book on the IMT, it seems that the Judges relied
> >> more on documentation in their verdicts. Also because the
> >> documentation had to read into the record, this limited the amount of
> >> documents the Americans could enter. The American wished to bury the
> >> defense in documents. But they failed to translate these documents
> >> into the various languages. So the judges ordered that these be read
> >> by doing so caused them to be translated by ther IBM system in use by
> >> the court. Neat, huh? When you post these excerpts without comment we
> >> must shrug. We have no idea as to the affect/effect or content of
> >> these testimonies. Appears to be a bubblering Giwer methodology.
> >
> > I have found two books on Nuremberg stand head and shoulders
> >above the rest Conot’s “Justice at Nuremberg” and Taylor’s “The Anatomy of
> >the Nuremberg Trials.”
> I read Conot years ago. I’ve forgotten his approach. The book is
> somewhere in the attic. I have Taylor’s memoirs also. I like Gilbert’s
> memoirs and I’m frankly enjoying Bradley F. Smith’s analysis of how
> the judges came to rationalize their sentences.
>
> But Nuremburg is hardly the place to start examining the Holocaust in
> my opinion. This is the place where Nazis start because they can whine
> loudly about the various aspects of justice or injustice. Although
> there may be some discussion about that, it does nothing to suggest
> that the Holocaust didn’t happen or 12 million noncombatants were not
> murdered.
I know this isn’t Christmas, Mike, but Ho Ho Ho…..It is really amusing watching you
try to rationalize and squirming like a little worm….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:04 PDT 1996
Article: 70168 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher’s Crime against Humanity
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:58:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> > Indeed. Telford Taylor, for instance, disagreed with Streicher’s sentence.
> > However, I think Taylor’s opinion was too colored by legalism at the
> > expense of the moral dimension. Taylor- rightly, I might add -was very
> > concerned about the the legal dimensions of the Nuremberg trials.
> > However, once the _procedural_ events of the trials concluded, and the
> > Tribunal needed to make decisions on guilt ot innocence, the _moral_
> > dimension came into play as well. That, after all, is what a judge must
> > do- reconcile the legal and moral dimensions to serve Justice.
>
> Taylor was an outstanding lawyer (he was involved in the Miranda
> case, for example) and looked at the Nuremberg trial from that perspective. It
> was clear to me that he was not happy with the case against Streicher. While he
> does not come out directly and make the statement, he strongly implies that
> Streicher was convicted as much because he was stupid as becasue he was
> evil. Technically there is not much hope for a defendant who starts his testimony
> with an attack on his own lawyer. When I read a transcript of Streicher’s
> testimony, I was bothered that his lawyer did not attempt to withdraw. In a similar
> situation I could not see how I could give effective representation under those
> circumstances.
>
> –YFE
>From what I read, his lawyer attempted to withdraw but was refused permission.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:04 PDT 1996
Article: 70173 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:55:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >Nope. You outnumber me. I have to have a few advantages besides the truth.
>
> Since most of what you write is devoid of truth I’d say you need even more
> help yet.
Not from the likes of a confirmed liar like yourself.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:05 PDT 1996
Article: 70177 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:54:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Mike Curtis) writes:
> [email protected] (Gord McFee) wrote:
>
> >In message <5138ug$6f[email protected]> – [email protected] Sep 1996
> >08:30:08 GMT writes:
> >
> >[deleted]
> >
> >:>Not only do you need to work on your history, but I would suggest that you
> >:>brush up on your spelling and typing skills as well. Apparently your line that separates
> >:>good and evil also separates ignorance and intelligence. You are not in my league,
> >:>cub scout. Go back to playing with your marbles, most of which you obviously lost
> >:>some time ago.
> >
> >I guess I have to explain to you that you don’t defeat Mr. van Alstine’s
> >arguments by simply saying you have; you have to actually do so.
>
> But this is so obvious, Gord.
The only ones complaining are anti-revisionists, so I am not too worried about it.
In fact, I’m not worried at all.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:06 PDT 1996
Article: 70178 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:53:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad68-037.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> I don’t know how to break this to you, Mr. Blackmore, but simply filling a
> line with a series of question marks and exclamation points is hardly a
> rebuttal.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
That constutues my rebuttal in this case. Let others be the judge of Ehrenburg’s
comments.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:06 PDT 1996
Article: 70179 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher-PORNOGRAPHER-THE FINAL ROUND & TKO
Date: 30 Sep 1996 06:00:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> I think you hit it on the head, Yale. Mr. “Blackmore” is trolling.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Wrong again.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:07 PDT 1996
Article: 70183 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:31:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
> In article
> [email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
>
> > > You could be wrong and you are. Try page 186.
> > Oh, goodie! If one were to, ah, _assume_ Al meant _The Venlo Incident_,
> > page 186, why, that _would_ be a cite!
> >
> > Bravo, Al! I just _knew_ you had it in you- somewhere.
> >
> > Now, Al, what _did_ Payne-Best say on page 186 of _The Venlo Incident_?
>
> Look it up yourself then apologise for accusing me of lying about the
> reference to a Swiss medical journal.
> “He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
> the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
>
>>>>
Mr. Baron, did you really expect that hack to apologize? Verily I say unto thee,
there shall be a holy day in hell before he will ever apologise to anyone. Anyway,
their ship is sinking fast, and they know it.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:08 PDT 1996
Article: 70184 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:36:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Notice how he never answered the question……….
>
> Funny you should talk about not answering the question, little man.
>
> In a recent email, later posted to the Usenet, you made the following claim
> about the SWC:
>
> “What do you say to the fact that many Jewish publications also quoted
> this 4,000,000 figure for YEARS until the research made primarily by
> revisionist scholars embarrassed the hell out of them. Why did the Simon
> Wiesenthal Center keep silent on this figure until recently? Could MONEY
> have anything to do with it?”
>
> You have yet to answer the following questions without prevarication:
>
> (1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding the SWC
> (2) where is the proof for the following:
> (a) that the SWC promoted the figure of 4 million knowing it was wrong
> (b) that this was done for money
> (3) when you can’t provide that proof, you are requested to revist part
> 1 and supply the truth.
Hello darkness my old friend, I’ve come to talk with you again….etc….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70185 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher and Spinoza
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:51:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: <[email protected]>
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> #”You can’t handle the truth”.
>
> I can handle it. I just haven’t seen any of it in any of your postings yet.
> Every time you get bested in an arguement you cut and run.
It’s funny I am still here…..Next time you read a post, try opening your eyes as well as
your mind….
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70186 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:19:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Richard Schultz) writes:
> John Morris ([email protected]) wrote:
>
> : G’night Matt.
>
> You appear to have misspelled “Gracie.”
>
> Hope this helps!
> —–
> Richard Schultz [email protected]
> Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
> Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
> —–
> “French bread makes very good skis”
It helps to make you look ridiculous.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:10 PDT 1996
Article: 70187 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:18:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (John Morris) writes:
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>
> >>>>
There
> is some evidence to indicate that gassing took place on a limited
> scale at Dachau apparently for the the purpose of straight forward
> executions and not as part of the extermination plan.
Would you mind sharing that evidence with us?
Check out Deja News for my post, Blah blah blaha. Not a very
credible witness.
I know that Kogon, et al., cite Rascher’s letter indicating that
> the gassing equipment had arrived and his proposals for using it
> to test combat gasses, as well as
Just in the nick of time, eh? I believe the alleged gas chamber at Dachau
was finally finished in late 1944…..when the nazis were supposedly dismantling
all the other “extermination” facilities….Guess they wanted the allies to have a
little “ammunition” for their announced “war crimes trials”.
I also understand that they
> have recently revised that opinion.
How convenient! Always changing their stories,,,,,hmmmm….if you can’t
believe the messengers, how can you believe the message?
Now since you do not understand so much as a single word of German, I
But I do….no need to translate…..
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 07:33:11 PDT 1996
Article: 70188 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Date: 30 Sep 1996 05:41:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On 22 Sep 1996 15:36:10 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> #> [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
> #> [email protected] writes:
> #> >Let’s not get in to how Mr. Irving has fared. It dosen’t look good for
> free
> #> >speech advocates.
> #>
> #> Let’s face it – it doesn’t look good for Mr. Irving. He’s been sued
> #> at least twice for libel.
> #>
> #> Derek
> #> —
> #> Derek Bell [email protected] WWW:
> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html (Page doesn`t exist)
> #> “Donuts – is there _anything_ they can’t do?” – Homer Simpson
> #>
> #>>>>
> #Which is apparently what will happen if Deborah Li[stadt ever steps foot on
> #English soil.
>
> Irving has been sucessfully sued. I doubt Lipstadt will have a problem.
>
> Irving hasn’t faired to well in court cases. Seems he recently lost another
> one in Austrailia.
When will she be arriving in England?
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:08 PDT 1996
Article: 70277 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:07:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>
> # Perhaps, to clean up this issue, Herr Schwarzesel would be
> # so kind as to supply the excerpt from the _Belsen Trial_ that
> # states the British “brought potable [sic] generators with them?”
>
> “To restore the water supply we utilized the fire pumps and
> hose which we found inside the camp to pump water from a river
> to the camp itself”.
>
> […]
>
> “Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
> in that camp?”
>
> “I can think of none”.
>
> Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, “The Belsen Trial”,
> p. 54.
> -Danny Keren.
Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was polluted. Mr. Giwer also
makes a good point when he adds that the British had to have provided some special
filtering apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70278 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:09:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > The water in the camp was NOT potable-with or without the British. Now, I
> read
> > that they brought potable generators with them. So, in order to reach the truth,
> > please post exactly HOW the British supplied water directly from the river
> without
> > first treating it?
>
> That is nonsense. People drank it. They did not suffer. Ergo it was
> potable. The British supplies the water by turning on the pumps. Since the
> “pollution” is a figment of your imagination it was a relatively easy process.
>
> –YFE
This is avoiding the issue. The rivers of Europe are and have been highly polluted
for decades now. If the British did not make the water potable, perhaps many prisoners
died as a result of drinking this water. Please provide the proof that the British did not use
filtering equipment.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:10 PDT 1996
Article: 70279 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:12:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > You have already received the answer, yet you pretend that you did not.
> > The British supplied water to the camp by piping it in from the river running
> > near the camp. The river which Kramer thought was polluted.
>
> No, the river which was not polluted which *you* state Kramer
> thought was polluted. Where is your evidence for this?
>
> –YFE
What evidence? That Kramer thought it was polluted? Well, we can’t very
well ask him today, can we? No, it is up to you now to prove that the British
did not use filtering machines to supply drinkable water to the detainees. Anyway,
this is an odd request from a man who suggested that all Kramer need do was remove
rotting corpses covered in excrement from the water in order for the prisoners to relieve
their thirst. Thank God you weren’t in command of that camp instead of Kramer!
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:11 PDT 1996
Article: 70280 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 30 Sep 1996 04:14:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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> Chuck Ferree writes:
> Chuck Ferree writes:
>
> Thanks, Brian! Great and classy job here. This guy is a fruitcake as
> I’m sure you have figured out. He just lies with a straight face.
> You showed him and all of us what class is. I’m proud of you and your
> good work.
> Chuck
I am pleased to read that you think you all are doing such a great job. You are
all legends in your own minds.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:12 PDT 1996
Article: 70290 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:21:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
>
> > Do you know anything about the treatment of severe dysentery and
> gastro-enteritis?
> > The treatment is NOT to give food. In fact, when food was given to some of
> these
> > unfortunates by the British, they died. Next time, think before you ask a question,
> or
> > at least take the time to research it.
>
> Answer: rblackmore has evidently not researched it. The modern
> treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement. Kramer provided neither. He
> cut off the water. Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
> dystentery.
>
> –YFE
Yes, this is what I have already said. However, you have already stated that
all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
heart’s content…..By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
administered intravenously.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 13:17:12 PDT 1996
Article: 70296 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:19:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> g
> :>
> :>You don’t think the fact that Kramer was in charge of a death
> :>camp is valid?
>
> Of course it’s valid. It just buggers his argument that Kramer was just a
> helpless pawn.
>
> [rest deleted]
> —
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
No, it does not. You seem to have a problem with it though. The two cases
are not relevant, and neither are the circumstances. If you don’t mind, I really
don’t want to enter into a discussion on Auschwitz just yet. I am still researching.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 14:22:55 PDT 1996
Article: 70300 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 02:15:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Reply-To: [email protected]
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
> [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> # You have already received the answer, yet you pretend that
> # you did not. The British supplied water to the camp by piping
> # it in from the river running near the camp. The river which
> # Kramer thought was polluted.
>
> And the Nazis also probably thought the food in the stores
> nearby was contaminated, so they didn’t give it to the inmates?
>
> And in Auschwitz, the SS probably thought the air was polluted,
> so they killed the deportees in order to prevent them from
> breathing it?
>
> Tell me – are you serious?
> -Danny Keren.
Tell me-are you?
From [email protected] Tue Oct 1 01:54:44 PDT 1996
Article: 70518 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: 29 Sep 1996 17:45:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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> [email protected] (Gord McFee) writes:
a lot of documentation has been
> discovered _subsequent_ to Nuremberg.
> Gord McFee
> I’ll write no line before its time
Indeed.
From [email protected] Mon Sep 23 13:02:39 PDT 1996
Article: 67995 of alt.revisionism
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From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: 22 Sep 1996 15:14:55 GMT
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References: <[email protected]>
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