I believe Kenny is scared of you.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:25:24 EST 2000
Article: 78382 of soc.culture.palestine
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!
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Reply-To: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
From: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A question for Nizkor
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“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> And I believe you’re a complete idiot if you think your lame attempts at
forgery
> fool anyone.
>
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
You’re a total idiot to believe it is a forgery attempting to fool people. I
signed the damn thing.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:25:25 EST 2000
Article: 78403 of soc.culture.palestine
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
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tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: “Orac”
From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: question for Nizkor
Lines: 42
Organization: Nizkor Project
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“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> Ah, I hoped that might get a response out of you. Good. So you aren’t
ignoring
> followup responses to your posts. You’re only ignoring ones that put you
on the
> spot.
>
> So, now that I have your attention, perhaps you could answer this
question: Why
> are you so fascinated with Ken’s sexuality?
>
> Somehow I bet you won’t be nearly so fast to answer this post as you were
to
> answer the previous one.
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
Don’t play that shit with me you idiot, just like you I post selectively.
I’ve already answered many questions several times. But for your blind
faggot ass I will answer again. The American Guardian is a site that
publishes homosexual behavioral information. The question I repeatedly asked
of Ken McVay is not out of line. We do have some information on why he
really moved to Canada and of possible homosexual activity. Get your big
sissy leader McVay to answer the question and I will stop asking it. So Orac
if you can’t answer my question then shut up.
Ken McVay are you a homosexual?
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:27:12 EST 2000
Article: 210070 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!
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hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
From: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A question for Nizkor
(Holocaust Denial Falls Under Free Speech in America For Now)
Lines: 8
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I believe Kenny is scared of you.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:27:13 EST 2000
Article: 210093 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!
newsfeed.direct.ca!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!
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Reply-To: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
From: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A question for Nizkor
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“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> And I believe you’re a complete idiot if you think your lame attempts at
forgery
> fool anyone.
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
You’re a total idiot to believe it is a forgery attempting to fool people. I
signed the damn thing.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:27:13 EST 2000
Article: 210137 of soc.culture.polish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
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gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!
tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: “Orac”
From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: question for Nizkor
Lines: 42
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“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> Ah, I hoped that might get a response out of you. Good. So you aren’t
ignoring
> followup responses to your posts. You’re only ignoring ones that put you
on the
> spot.
>
> So, now that I have your attention, perhaps you could answer this
question: Why
> are you so fascinated with Ken’s sexuality?
>
> Somehow I bet you won’t be nearly so fast to answer this post as you were
to
> answer the previous one.
>
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
Don’t play that shit with me you idiot, just like you I post selectively.
I’ve already answered many questions several times. But for your blind
faggot ass I will answer again. The American Guardian is a site that
publishes homosexual behavioral information. The question I repeatedly asked
of Ken McVay is not out of line. We do have some information on why he
really moved to Canada and of possible homosexual activity. Get your big
sissy leader McVay to answer the question and I will stop asking it. So Orac
if you can’t answer my question then shut up.
Ken McVay are you a homosexual?
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:28:36 EST 2000
Article: 65501 of soc.culture.ukrainian
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!
newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!
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hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
From: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A question for Nizkor
(Holocaust Denial Falls Under Free Speech in America For Now)
Lines: 8
Organization: Nizkor Project
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I believe Kenny is scared of you.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:28:36 EST 2000
Article: 65503 of soc.culture.ukrainian
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!
newsfeed.direct.ca!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!
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Reply-To: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
From: “Jeffrey G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A question for Nizkor
Lines: 24
Organization: Nizkor Project
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(Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:07 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:59:07 MST
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“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> And I believe you’re a complete idiot if you think your lame attempts at
forgery
> fool anyone.
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
You’re a total idiot to believe it is a forgery attempting to fool people. I
signed the damn thing.
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Tue Feb 1 15:28:37 EST 2000
Article: 65512 of soc.culture.ukrainian
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!
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gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!
tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Reply-To: “Orac”
From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.polish,
soc.culture.ukrainian
References: <[email protected]>
<20000119202017.03561.[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<8668k701ij[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3887E[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<86jehi$1a9a$1@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: question for Nizkor
Lines: 42
Organization: Nizkor Project
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(Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:50:29 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:50:29 MST
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Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:461159
alt.politics.white-power:473403 alt.revisionism:709887
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soc.culture.ukrainian:65512
“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> Ah, I hoped that might get a response out of you. Good. So you aren’t
ignoring
> followup responses to your posts. You’re only ignoring ones that put you
on the
> spot.
>
> So, now that I have your attention, perhaps you could answer this
question: Why
> are you so fascinated with Ken’s sexuality?
>
> Somehow I bet you won’t be nearly so fast to answer this post as you were
to
> answer the previous one.
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
Don’t play that shit with me you idiot, just like you I post selectively.
I’ve already answered many questions several times. But for your blind
faggot ass I will answer again. The American Guardian is a site that
publishes homosexual behavioral information. The question I repeatedly asked
of Ken McVay is not out of line. We do have some information on why he
really moved to Canada and of possible homosexual activity. Get your big
sissy leader McVay to answer the question and I will stop asking it. So Orac
if you can’t answer my question then shut up.
Ken McVay are you a homosexual?
—
The American Guardian
http://www.thundernet.org Broken link
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:20 EST 2000
Article: 712274 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “Doc Tavish”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
Subject: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 12
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X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949902760 206.156.164.158
(Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:52:40 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:52:40 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 05:52:41 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462444
alt.politics.white-power:474837 alt.revisionism:712274
“Ken McVay” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
To Ellis and others, my sex life is none of your damn
business. It is no big secret that I am gay, so you
have not scored any major points in exposing that.
So now tell me, how does my sexual orientation effect
my credibility in discussing the Holocaust, and in
exposing the deniers for what they are?
I’m gay and loving it. Now DEAL WITH IT!
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:20 EST 2000
Article: 712317 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!
hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “Doc Tavish”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
Lines: 3
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:07:35 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:07:35 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:07:35 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712317
BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:20 EST 2000
Article: 712318 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “Doc Tavish”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
Lines: 3
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:08:07 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:08:07 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:08:08 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712318
BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:21 EST 2000
Article: 712321 of alt.revisionism
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From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References:
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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“John Morris” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
> Hash: SHA1
>
> >”Ken McVay” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
> >To Ellis and others, my sex life is none of your damn
> >business. It is no big secret that I am gay, so you
> >have not scored any major points in exposing that.
> >So now tell me, how does my sexual orientation effect
> >my credibility in discussing the Holocaust, and in
> >exposing the deniers for what they are?
> >I’m gay and loving it. Now DEAL WITH IT!
>
> Is this what your God teaches you, Don? To repost a forgery as if it
> were authentic?
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
THE POST ITSELF IS AUTHENTIC, YOU CANNOT PROVE MCGAY WASN’T THE POSTER
I AM NOT CHRISTIAN, I AM JEWISH
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:21 EST 2000
Article: 712322 of alt.revisionism
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From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: The World Learns About anti-Revisionism
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HE IS SCARED OF YOU MICHAEL
“David E Michael” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> Hello again, Mr M. I shall do a little snipping to cut to the main issues
> — readers can consult your original post to read what has been snipped.
> > How unsurprising that you have not single word to say about the
> > Guardian article or the insights of its author. Instead, you take it
> > as an occasion to smear the article by reference to people Jonathon
> > Freedland has never met nor even heard of. You would have us
> > beileve, I suppose, that Freedland’s observations are thus
> > discredited.
>
> You were making general points about the honesty of revisionism. I
> responded by making general points about the honesty of anti-revisionism.
> You were not launching into a detailed discussion of the article.
> > If one were to assume that you are intelligent enough to know the
> > difference between a valid and an invalid argument, one would be
> > forced to conclude that you are willing to sacrifice your honesty in
> > order to score a cheap political point.
>
> That is an example of an invalid argument. The conclusion does not follow
> from the assumption.
> > But personally, I have to say that I have seen no evidence that you
> > know the difference. Your total output has been a repetitive
> > compendium of logical fallacies.
>
> And yet you can provide no examples. How strange.
> > >Yale F. Edeiken tried to set himself up as a great anti-Nazi lawyer,
> > >exposing and refuting the revisionists.
> >
> > That is a characterization, not a fact.
>
> It is an observation based upon having read his posts for two years.
> > > Then he was caught lying about the
> > >contents of a dictionary.
> >
> > Actually, he was caught assuming that a definition would not have
> > changed substantially from one edition to the next.
>
> He stated that the definition I gave was not in the eighth edition of the
> *Concise Oxford English Dictionary*. It was. He lied. If you want clear
> proof of his culpability, look at his reaction on being caught. Instead of
> saying ‘oops, I’ve made a mistake — sorry’ he simply tried to bluff it
> out. Then he disappeared in a puff of metaphorical smoke.
>
> > You naturally
> > seized upon this minor infraction to avoid entirely the discussion of
> > whether Nazi crimes could be called murder.
>
> A lie. We were discussing Allied crimes and I have repeatedly entered into
> discussions about why they could be called ‘murder’. To recapitulate, as
> admitted in Arthur Harris’s *Despatch*, cities were targetted for reasons
> beyond those that were legitimate military objectives. There were indeed
> legitimate military objectives, but there were also illegitimate ones,
> specifically the aim of causing ‘the fear of death’. Bombing with that aim
> is an act of murder.
>
> > You needed to avoid that
> > discussion when it became apparent that Nazi crimes could justly be
> > called murder even under the definition you had carefully selected as
> > exculpatory.
>
> Your memory is playing tricks on you. We were discussing Allied crimes,
> not Nazi crimes.
> > But true to form, you ignore all that simply to repeat a smear that
> > is entirely irrelevant to the issues discussed at the time.
>
> It was not irrelevant. The discussion was about murder. I gave a
> dictionary definition of murder. Mr Edeiken stated that I was lying and
> the dictionary definition of murder was not in the dictionary. It was. He
> had lied.
> > > Then it was found that he had two malpractice
> > >suits against him
> >
> > And yet you ignore that he gave details about the suits immediately
> > that “it was found.”
>
> He didn’t have much choice. If he hadn’t, I’d have been in touch with the
> CLR pretty damn quick, and he knew it.
>
> > You ignore that the suits were perfectly
> > ordinary events in the life a lawyer.
>
> Strange, then, that there are not many lawyers on the CLR lists.
>
> > Instead you attempted to
> > mischaracterize errors of legal practice as misconduct, an offense
> > for which he would been disciplined or disbarred.
>
> I have no idea about the intricacies of PA law.
> > > and that he was on the Citizens for Legal Responsibility
> > >blacklist.
> >
> > And the obvious truth rolled off you like water off a duck: that
> > Citizens for Legal Responsibility has no standing as a legal watchdog
> > group,
>
> How do you know this? Or are you just inventing it?
>
> > has no apparent legal existence,
>
> Please enlighten us as to what you mean and how you know?
>
> > and is plainly the sole
> > effort of kook who could not bring himself to believe that his wife
> > divorced him.
>
> Evidence?
>
> Or have you now descended into the murky Murphy/Ragland world of lurid
> fantasy?
>
> > You regard CLR as a credible source of information
> > about lawyers despite its accusation that his divorce judges
> > committed acts of treason and that Appellate Court judges have no
> > legal standing to hear appeals.
>
> I have no idea as to its standing. I just found the site and drew
> attention to its rather interesting contents.
>
> Interesting question, however. If what you say is true, why has Yale F
> Edeiken brought no action against it for defamation?
> > Yet in spite of the total lack of credibility of CLR, you trot out
> > its allegations again and again.
>
> Just because you say that it has a ‘total lack of credibility’ this does
> not mean that you have established your case. Has anyone successfully sued
> it for defamation? Yes or no? If not, why not?
> > > He is now a spent force.
> >
> > That is your tendentious interpretation of his recent absence from
> > the newsgroup.
>
> No, it is my interpretation of his credibility.
>
> > But for all you know, his attorneys advised him to
> > stop posting in alt.revisionism until his case against Scott Bradbury
> > is heard.
>
> Strange. I thought he *was* an attorney. And he showed no reluctance to
> post here until the VERY DAY when he was unfrocked. That was when he
> disappeared. Maybe it was just a coincidence though, like Mr Murphy
> ‘forgetting’ that he’d posted to all those porno groups, eh?
> > But you rarely let a lack of knowledge prevent you from drawing a
> > conclusion.
>
> I know that (a) Edeiken is an attorney employed by Todd Miller &
> Associates of Allentown, PA., and hence has some knowledge of the law. (b)
> He stopped posting here on the very day that he was unfrocked. (c) There
> was nothing to stop him posting here on subjects other than those related
> to his supposed action (if action there be) against Bradbury. Those facts
> alone make your fantasy scenario seem unlikely.
> > >Scot Murphy came to this newsgroup full of bombast about how he
> > >intended to tell the truth about the ‘Holocaust’. He crows with
> > >delight when the personal details of revisionists are posted in
> > >alt.revisionism.
> >
> > What personal details? Your name? The name you posted?
> My name and the place where you thought I lived. Enough to get me
> identified by anyone motivated to look for me. Enough to lose me a job if
> I were an employee.
> > > That
> > >delight rapidly turns to squeals of outrage when his own personal
> > >details were posted — specifically, the fact that he had been
> > >posting in
> > >necrophiliac and other newsgroups.
> >
> > Of course, leave it you to leave the question dangling about the
> > nature of his posts to those newsgroups.
>
> I did not leave this dangling. I gave some examples. You are a dishonest
> man, Mr Morris.
>
> > You have been content to
> > label him repeatedly a pervert.
>
> What do you call someone who indulges in self abuse in front of his
> computer screen while looking at pictures of Courtney Cox being
> ‘executed’?
> > And then deny that your interest was
> > other than to expose a liar.
>
> A liar and a hypocrite, Mr Morris. As I said before, the nature of the lie
> in question merely adds a vivid dimension of humour to the otherwise sad
> tale.
> > > Then he makes his big mistake: he
> > >announces that he had not been posting in those newsgroups but
> > >merely lurking. When presented with hard evidence that he had, in
> > >fact, been lurking, he at last admits it.
> >
> > You mean the fact that he was honest enough to admit an embarrassing
> > fact is proof of his dishonesty?
> No. Proof of his dishonesty was his statement that he had not posted,
> merely lurked. He had posted. In fact according to Deja.com, there were
> upward of 40 such posts.
> > > Now, although he will bluster on, nobody
> > >will read his posts without knowing that they are the posts of a
> > >liar and a hypocrite. He is a spent force.
> >
> > He’s still posting here. How is he a spent force. You are a liar,
> > and you are not a spent force.
>
> Psssssssst. Read what I said. ‘He will bluster on.’ And he will be
> reminded from time to time of his dishonesty, and since he makes a big
> thing of purporting to be telling the truth, this will be far more
> damaging to his cause than a quiet disappearance.
> > I found myself labelled as a ‘Nazi’ (which was palpably untrue
> > — at least at the time)
> > http://x36.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=358230804 (Page doesn`t exist) >
> And who is that a quote from, Mr Morris?
>
> > Yet since then you have made every effort to distance yourself from
> > your Nazi sympathies despite dozens of posts calling the Nazis “our
> > side” and “we nationalists are doing such and such for the first time
> > in fifty years,” and “Nazism was based on a wonderful dream” and
> > “innocent men were hanged at Nuremberg.”
>
> The truth is that you’ve been very quick to try to smear me as such. It’s
> a relatively simple smear to refute.
> > >William Daffer, in an attempt to salvage Mr Murphy’s reputation,
> > >announces to the world that ‘total honesty isn’t required’. And
> > >thereby crucifies his own credibility.
> >
> > That is precisely what William Daffer did *not* try to do. He simply
> > made the point that a minor lie to cover up an embarrassment does not
> > demonstrate that he lies about everything.
>
> If he’d said that I’d have agreed with him. But that’s not what he said.
> What he said was: ‘total honesty isn’t required’.
>
> > It is merely the kind _ad
> > hominem_ attack which constitutes the bulk of your posts.
>
> And such attacks do not constitute the bulk of yours?
>
> But hypocrisy is something we’ve come to expect from you.
> > Now, the converse position is that total honesty is required, that if
> > someone has been caught telling a lie about anything, his credibility
> > is shot. Are you prepared to state that you never lied about
> > anything in your entire life?
>
> Fantastic though it might sound to you, Mr Morris, I do not, in fact,
> consider it acceptable to tell lies.
>
> Do you?
> > If not, is your credibility shot?
>
> If I came to a newsgroup claiming that I was here to post the truth about
> World War II, as Mr Murphy does, and then I was caught telling a whopper
> like his, I think that people might, under those circumstances, be excused
> for regarding my utterances with a little scepticism.
> > From: William Daffer
> > Date: 04 Feb 2000 19:56:50 -0800
> > Message-ID:
> > http://x40.deja.com//getdoc.xp?AN=581793994
(Page doesn`t exist)
> > His posts to alt.spank.whatever have nothing to do with his
> > posts to this newsgroup. To try to argue that is a transparent
> > ‘ad hominem,’ ans is truly beneath you. Furthermore, his
> > lying about them has nothing to do with this newsgroup. Total
> > honesty isn’t required, only honesty about the matters relevant
> > to this newsgroup. If you had an affair with another woman, your
> > lie about it when confronted with that information in this
> > newsgroup would in no way bear on your arguments on the
> > historical support of the Holocaust.
> > Care to defend your quotation as an honest representation of
> > William’s Daffer’s remark?
> Sure. He makes the following points. I’ll comment on each.
>
> (a) ‘His [Murphy’s] posts to alt.spank.whatever have nothing to do with
> his posts to this newsgroup. To try to argue that is a transparent ‘ad
> hominem,’ ans is truly beneath you.’
>
> I agree with the fact that the posts in themselves have nothing to do with
> this newsgroup. My name and what you (Morris) believed to be my town of
> residence have nothing to do with this newsgroup, but that didn’t stop you
> from posting them. Posting my details like that could have destroyed my
> career. McClelland posting Murphy’s details like that was a legitimate
> move because it demonstrated him to be a raving hypocrite. Murphy was all
> in favour of having my personal details posted. He sang a very different
> tune when it happened to him.
>
> (b) ‘Furthermore, his lying about them has nothing to do with this
> newsgroup.’
>
> I respectfully disagree with Mr Daffer on this point. Mr Murphy has stated
> that he is here to tell the truth. The fact that he has been caught
> telling lies here completely shatters that little myth. He is a man who is
> prepared to lie in public. It means that we cannot trust anything that he
> says.
>
> (c) ‘Total honesty isn’t required, only honesty about the matters relevant
>
> to this newsgroup.’
>
> First, this reveals that Mr Daffer considers it legitimate to lie if it
> can be argued that the lie is ‘not relevant’ to this newsgroup. But if he
> considers it acceptable to lie at all, why should we believe that his
> acceptance of dishonesty is limited to the territory that can be described
> as ‘outside’ alt.revisionism? Second, the issue involved in the Murphy
> case was indeed a lie relevant to this newsgroup. He says he has come here
> to post the truth. Now when a man says that he comes here to post the
> truth, and is caught telling a lie, I think that it would be thick-skinned
> man indeed who would try to argue that this is ‘irrelevant’.
>
> (d) ‘If you had an affair with another woman, your lie about it when
> confronted with that information in this newsgroup would in no way bear on
> your arguments on the
> historical support of the Holocaust.’
>
> Again, I disagree. If an individual can lie to his wife, and lie to this
> newsgroup about lying to his wife, I think that there is a good case for
> regarding him with scepticism, especially in the absence of an
> acknowledgement that he lied and an apology for the lie. And especially
> when his every post ends with the words ‘Always tell the truth . . .’
> > Of course not. You will merely point out again that the words you
> > quote are contained in the larger quotation, and empty and whinging
> > sort of defence that I doubt even convinces you.
> >
> > >Hilary Ostrov announces that David Irving’s books are dishonest. Yet
> > >when challenged to give one example of dishonesty in his books she
> > >is unable to do so. When challenged to tell us whether she has
> > >actually *read* any of his books, she is unwilling to do so.
> >
> > I have not read his books,
>
> Interesting revelation.
>
> > but Richard Evans has convinced me that
> > David Irving is indeed dishonest. How? By producing evidence of
> > Irving’s dishonesty.
>
> Well, we’ll see what the High Court has to say about that.
> > >Steve Wolk howls in outrage that anyone dares to mention Scot
> > >Murphy’s dalliances in pornographic newsgroups (even though these
> > >dalliances are mentioned only to demonstrate the man’s dishonesty).
> >
> > Yet you contented yourself with calling him a pervert repeatedly.
> I called him (a) a liar, (b) a hypocrite, (c) a pervert. He is all three.
> Do you deny it?
> > > When asked whether he
> > >condemns a campaign by anti-revisionists to smear David Irving as a
> > >’pervert’ he says, however, that he applauds it. Hypocrisy,
> > >hypocrisy, hypocrisy.
> >
> > There, you just implicated him as a pervert again. For someone who
> > claims to be focussed exclusively on questions of honesty you seem
> > remarkably interested in emphasizing the “sexual perversions” of the
> > object of your hatred.
> It would be rather difficult to discuss this matter without doing so.
> > Moreover, no one has called David Irving a sexual pervert but argued
> > that it is perverse to teach a hateful rhyme to a small child.
>
> The title of the thread, Mr M, was ‘Irving: a pervert?’
>
> > And yet here you are once again mounting a personal attack through
> > wholesale misrepresentation of another discussion. And why? To win
> > converts to your philosophy of “love.”
>
> Ah, but I know your game, Mr Morris. You are out to smear and
> misrepresent. You do that by attacking the credibility of revisionist
> posters, not just their arguments. This isn’t just your tactic but the
> tactic of most anti-revisionist posters here. Given this approach, it
> seems wholly appropriate for me to turn the tables and give you folks a
> dose of your own medicine. It’s a case of you can dish it out but you
> can’t take it.
> > >John Morris is then reduced to trying to defend the reputations of
> > >men such as Edeiken, Murphy and Daffer.
> >
> > The only thing I have been reduced to is defending decent people
> > against filth like you
>
> Let’s look at who you call ‘decent people’, Mr Morris.
>
> Individual one. A man who gets his kicks out of necrophilia and
> asphyxiation newsgroups and looking at pictures of Courtney Cox being
> ‘executed’. This same man being a rampant hypocrite who squeals with
> delight when the personal details of revisionists are posted here but then
> howls with outrage when someone does it to him! The same man claiming that
> he is here to tell the truth — and then telling a transparent lie. And
> the same man neither acknowledging nor apologizing for the lie. A man who
> considers the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese
> civilians to have been ‘justified’.
>
> Individual two. A spiteful little man, warped with hatred, who, every
> night, spews out hatred and smears against his political opponents, even
> going so far as to insinuate that one is a pedophile. A man who lies about
> the contents of a dictionary and about the political affiliations of his
> opponents. A man who has apparently been sued successfully twice for
> failing his clients, and who has the lowest rating for legal ability that
> it’s possible to get in Pennsylvania.
>
> Individual three. An obnoxious little troll who proclaims to the world
> that ‘total honesty isn’t required’.
>
> Such are the people you regard as ‘decent’.
>
> Such are the people you come here to defend.
>
> And what does that say about you?
>
> > who have trained themselves to lie by second
> > nature so that they don’t even realize that they are lying anymore,
> > who would have us believe that their hate is really love and their
> > lies will lead us to a promised land of truth. I am soiled by the
> > mere contact with you, by the mere act of dignifying you with a
> > response.
>
> Oh put a sock in it. Time and time again you accuse me of this and that
> and the other. Time and time again you accuse me of lying, of Nazism, of
> being ready to condone killing to build a homogeneous Britain. Time and
> time again you are asked to produce evidence for your defamatory
> allegations. Time and time again you disappear at the critical moment. You
> have no interest in honesty or history. You’re here to perform a political
> act — to oppose revisionism. You know it; I know it. So spare us your
> sanctimonious and hypocritical drivel.
> > I would not wish to feel loathing for any human being. Yet I do feel
> > a profound loathing for you, and that does indeed reduce me.
>
> No. What reduces you is that you are a very intelligent man who has chosen
> to use that intelligence to smear and misrepresent and hurt and denigrate
> anyone who dares to ask certain questions or to express certain doubts.
> You are quite capable of reasoned argument, yet you know that it will not
> serve your purposes and thus you are reduced to dishonesty.
>
> You have lied many, many times. That reduces you.
>
> You have misrepresented the views and arguments of others many, many
> times. That reduces you.
>
> You have not hesitated to undertake actions that could have destroyed the
> career and life of one your opponents. That reduces you.
>
> You have not hesitated to come to the defence of liars and hypocrites who
> post against revisionists. That reduces you.
>
> And the fact that an intelligent man like you should be obliged to resort
> to such tactics tells us much about the bankruptcy of your cause.
>
> I consider it a privilege to be loathed by you. And may such loathing
> intensify with every year that passes!
> > > In doing so, he tells us that Mr
> > >Murphy had ‘forgotten’ that he had posted in pornographic
> > >newsgroups. It is pointed out to him that Mr Murphy had made over 40
> > >such posts and that to have ‘forgotten’ such prolific activity would
> > >have required a rather nasty case of amnesia.
> >
> > I recall that his foegtting was with respect to one or two posts.
> >
>
> Then let us look at what deja.com says, shall we, O great honest one?
>
>
> Posting History: [email protected]
> (DepttyBob)
> Help |
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>
>
>
> There are 592 unique messages by
> [email protected] (DepttyBob)
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> 20
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> 7
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> 5
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> 4
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>
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> Further evidence, Mr Morris, that you are a dirty little liar.
> > > He tried to argue that Mr William Daffer’s ‘total
> > >honesty isn’t required’ means something other than ‘total honesty
> > >isn’t required’.
> >
> > No. I have succeeded in arguing that you have deliberately quoted
> > William out of context in order to make it appear as if he were
> > arguing that lying about germane issues is permissible.
> Well if he thinks that lying about ungermane issues *is* permissible why
> the **** should anyone believe him when he says that he thinks that lying
> about germane issues *is not* permissible?
>
> >
> > That is the argument which you have consistently failed to address.
> > One need not wonder why. It serves your purposes to lie.
>
> Where is the lie?
>
> Come on! You make these accusations — let us see some evidence!
> > > Unfortunately, it doesn’t. He tries to make out that Yale
> > >Edeiken’s C rating for legal ability is somehow a sign that Yale
> > >Edeiken is a widely respected lawyer
> >
> > I was wondering why you didn’t trot out this bullshit above. What
> > amazes me is the fanatic tirelessness of your lies. You know that
> > your statement is false.
>
> Suuuuuuuuuuure. He apparently has two malpractice suits against his name
> and is on the CLR blacklist and he’s a respected lawyer?
> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
>
> > You know that it is easily demonstrated to
> > be false. Yet you repeat the same lies over and over and over and
> > over as if by mere repetition they become truth. Yet if I dare point
> > out that something in you is badly broken, you will rant about
> > “communists” wanting to lock you up.
>
> When have I ever ranted about communists wanting to lock me up?
>
> More fantasy from Mr Morris.
>
> > Nevertheless David you are sick
> > man.
>
> If the urge to expose liars and hypocrites like you is a sickness, may it
> spread throughout all the world!
> > And one more time, let’s see what a “C” rating means to the rating
> > service you quote:
> > YALE F. EDEIKEN
> > […]
> >
> > CV*
> >
> > *The Martindale-Hubbell CV Rating indicates good to high legal
> > ability and very high ethical standards as established by
> > confidential opinions from members of the Bar.
> Yes, and we all know what that means. If they called A ‘excellent’, B ‘OK’
> and C ‘crap’, no lawyers would want their B or C ratings. So they have to
> redesignate ‘C’. The fact remains that ‘C’ is the lowest ability rating
> that they give.
> > > (his two malpractice suits and blacklisting
> > >by the Citizens for Legal Responsibility notwithstanding). When
> > >challenged to condemn the dishonesty of these men he refuses to do
> > >so and rounds instead upon those who would expose their dirty ways.
> >
> > I am exposing your dirty ways: your falsifications, your
> > misrepresentations, your downright lies, your focus on individuals
> > rather than arguments, your infantile hatreds.
>
> I don’t think so. You are exposing your own indifference to lies and
> hypocrisy when it comes from ‘your side’ in the debate. And your own
> dishonesty when it comes to attacking the other side.
> > >Such are the people who come here to teach us about the ‘evils’ of
> > >revisionism.
> >
> > Such are the perverse caricatures of humanity who come here to excuse
> > the crimes of the Nazis in order to proselytize for hate.
> Where Nazi crimes are proven, I don’t hesitate to condemn them.
>
> I have yet to see you condemn an Allied crime.
> > >On 5 February 2000 William Daffer wrote: ‘total honesty isn’t
> > >required’.
> >
> > I just notice that you changed the subject line. Yet you haven’t
> > said a single thing about Revisionism or anti-Revisionism. You have
> > only attacked individuals in the apparent belief that by discrediting
> > a handful of people in a newsgroup you have discredited history and
> > lent credibility to those who, like David Irving, would lie about it.
> No. Your tactic is to paint revisionists as blacker than black and
> anti-revisionists as whiter than white. This means that I have to shatter
> the myth and make it unsustainable. There’s good and bad on all sides.
> Even yours.
> > Thank you, David. Through your diligent efforts, the world has
> > learned even more about the character and moral make-up of
> > Revisionists.
>
> And anti-revisionists.
> > John Morris
> > at University of Alberta
> >
> > —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
> > Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use
> >
> > iQA/AwUBOJ41kZQgvG272fn9EQLA5wCfSu5V7Q7PbJyHDDRAQkvmG3VEHokAn2/r
> > 3Z6z+unhO0Vh1RHGjQDN6RNW
> > =PJFT
> > —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–
>
> David
> On 5 February 2000 William Daffer wrote: ‘total honesty isn’t required’.
>
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:21 EST 2000
Article: 712325 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Response to Fledgist’s question: OT
Lines: 29
X-Priority: 3
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:22:16 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:22:16 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:22:16 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712325
“David E Michael” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
>
> Michael Ragland wrote:
>
> > Ellis asks me, “DO YOU EAT DOG PUSSY TOO”
> >
> > Fledgist replies, “What’s it like?”
> >
> > I laughed when I read that as I wasn’t sure if Fledgist was genuinely
> > curious about what it tasted like and if he was querying me for
> > knowledge of such inconsequential matters. For the record I’ve never
> > eaten dog pussy. ROTFL! I happen to be attracted to the opposite sex of
> > my own species. But I have seen mpegs and pictures of men having
> > intercourse with female dogs but have never see men licking dog pussy.
> > Astonishing! I would imagine the scent would be different from a human
> > female and unappealing to a sexually healthy human male.
> >
> > Michael Ragland
>
> And these are the men who come to post against revisionism!
>
> David
>
THEY ARE PERVERTED MOTHERFUCKERS
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:22 EST 2000
Article: 712327 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Response to Fledgist’s question: OT
Lines: 32
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.156.164.158
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:26:11 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:26:11 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:26:11 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712327
ANYONE WHO WOULD BRAG ABOUT EATING PUSSY WOULD SUCK A DICK. WITH THE PUSSY
SO CLOSE TO THE ASSHOLE THEY WOULD LIKELY EAT SHIT TOO.
“Fledgist” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> >Ellis asks me, “DO YOU EAT DOG PUSSY TOO”
> >
> >Fledgist replies, “What’s it like?”
> >
> >I laughed when I read that as I wasn’t sure if Fledgist was genuinely
> >curious about what it tasted like and if he was querying me for
> >knowledge of such inconsequential matters. For the record I’ve never
> >eaten dog pussy. ROTFL! I happen to be attracted to the opposite sex of
> >my own species. But I have seen mpegs and pictures of men having
> >intercourse with female dogs but have never see men licking dog pussy.
> >Astonishing! I would imagine the scent would be different from a human
> >female and unappealing to a sexually healthy human male.
> >
> >Michael Ragland
> I wanted to find out from Ellis. He appears to have an excessive interest
in
> non-heterosexual sexual activities.
> Fragano Ledgister
> ([email protected])
> Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;
> She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:22 EST 2000
Article: 712328 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!
206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!
tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: THE MARINES HATE FAGGOTS
Lines: 7
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:29:35 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:29:35 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:29:35 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712328
“Michael Ragland” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
YOU STILL EATING PUSSY AND SUCKING DICKS?
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:23 EST 2000
Article: 712332 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!
news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 43
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X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949923294 206.156.164.158
(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:34:54 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:34:54 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:34:55 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462471
alt.politics.white-power:474877 alt.revisionism:712332
“John Morris” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> >”John Morris” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
>
> [snip]
>
> The post was sent from an anonymous remailer. And you cannot prove
> that Ken McVay posted it.
>
THAT IS WHAT I SAID IDIOT
> >I AM NOT CHRISTIAN, I AM JEWISH
>
> Aren’t you confused, Don? Isn’t it Mike Kalvatis who is supposed to
> be pretending he is Jewish?
I BELIEVE MR KALVATIS IS A JEW CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANTY
> Please try to keep your sockpuppets straight. And considering that
> you run a gay porn site for scat-fanciers, I use the term guardedly.
SO YOU LIKE SHIT, WHAT IS NEW
> – —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:23 EST 2000
Article: 712333 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!
news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References:
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 27
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:38:28 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:38:28 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:38:28 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462473
alt.politics.white-power:474879 alt.revisionism:712333
“David S. Maddison” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article Mon, 07 Feb
> 2000 05:52:41 GMT “Doc Tavish” wrote:
>
> >”Ken McVay” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
> >To Ellis and others, my sex life is none of your damn
> >business. It is no big secret that I am gay, so you
> >have not scored any major points in exposing that.
> >So now tell me, how does my sexual orientation effect
> >my credibility in discussing the Holocaust, and in
> >exposing the deniers for what they are?
> >I’m gay and loving it. Now DEAL WITH IT!
> Here is another Nazi lie revealed. The alleged post of Mr McVay is an
> obvious forgery and yet Mr Tavish presents it as the truth, just like
> the misrepresentations he portrays in his other posts.
>
> David Maddison
PROVE IT’S A FORGERY
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:23 EST 2000
Article: 712350 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 12
X-Priority: 3
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 05:19:43 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 05:19:43 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:19:43 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462482
alt.politics.white-power:474885 alt.revisionism:712350
“John Morris” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
>
> No. You said that I could not porve that McVay *didn’t* post it.
>
WHAT DOES “porve” MEAN?
I DON’T BELIEVE I USED THAT WORD
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 16:07:24 EST 2000
Article: 712351 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!
news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!
hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Phillie “da Moron” Kahle posts a brand new lie!
Lines: 28
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 05:21:33 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 05:21:33 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:21:33 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.white-power:474886
alt.politics.nationalism.white:462483 alt.revisionism:712351
JEFF YOUR POST IS OFF TOPIC
PLEASE POST ELSEWHERE
“Jeffrey G. Brown” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article <87kkdr$k[email protected]>, “Philllie da Moron Kahle”
> wrote:
>
> >http://membres.tripod.fr/xichang/dog.html Broken link
>
> Putting the subject line “New Food in Americas back alleys” on your post
> doesn’t make it true, moron. That’s a _French_ web site about practices
> _in China_.
>
> You’re just as ignorant now as when you claimed that milk wasn’t sold in
> US stores, aincha, moron?
>
> JGB
> =======================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown [email protected]
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. – “The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study”, 1997
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:43 EST 2000
Article: 712463 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!
not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <38a01058.239836451@news-server>
Subject: YOU PROVED NOTHING
Lines: 67
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:52:43 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:52:43 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:52:44 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712463
GET WITH THE PROGRAM
“Pgroff” wrote in message
news:38a01058.239836451@news-server…
> Below is an original post from Ken McVay.
> Note headers and addresses.
>
****************************************************************************
> From: [email protected] (Kenneth McVay OBC)
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Holocaust Almanac: Babi Yar & The Jews of Kiev…
> Date: 6 Feb 2000 08:58:03 GMT
> Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA
> Lines: 49
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> X-Trace: news.tht.net 949827483 84285 216.126.72.25 (6 Feb 2000
> 08:58:03 GMT)
> X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
> Keywords: Babi Yar,Kiev,Radomski,Syrets
> Xref: cyclone.austin.rr.com alt.revisionism:792643
>
****************************************************************************
**********
>
> Below is an obvious forgery from Don Ellis.
> Again note the headers and addresses.
> The question that should really be answered is this.
> Why are the up stream providers that have to deal with that Ellis
> character allowing this??
> Sick minds shouldn’t be allowed to have access to a computer.
>
****************************************************************************
**********
>
> Path:
>
typhoon.austin.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!news.rr.com!news.austin.rr.com!n
ews-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw2
2.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mai
l
> From: “Doc Tavish”
> Newsgroups:
> alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
> Subject: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
> Lines: 12
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
> Message-ID:
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.156.164.158
> X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949902760 206.156.164.158 (Sun, 06 Feb
> 2000 22:52:40 MST)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:52:40 MST
> Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions –
> http://bCandid.com
>
****************************************************************************
*****************************************************************
>
> pgroff
> |
> http://www.Holocaust-History.org
>
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:43 EST 2000
Article: 712464 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!
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not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <87[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
Lines: 20
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:55:35 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:55:35 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:55:35 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712464
WAITING FOR PROOF
“Sam Barber” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article ,
> “Doc Tavish” wrote:
>
> > BACK IT UP WITH PROOF
>
> “How it infuriates a bigot, when he is forced
> to drag out his dark convictions.”
>
> – Logan Persall Smith
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ (Page doesn`t exist)
> Before you buy.
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:44 EST 2000
Article: 712465 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!europa.netcrusader.net!
206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!
tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 28
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X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949964208 206.156.164.158
(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:56:48 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:56:48 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:56:48 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462576
alt.politics.white-power:475025 alt.revisionism:712465
URL PLEASE
“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article , “John Morris”
> wrote:
>
> >”John Morris” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
>
> >> Please try to keep your sockpuppets straight. And considering that
> >> you run a gay porn site for scat-fanciers, I use the term guardedly.
> >
> >
> >SO YOU LIKE SHIT, WHAT IS NEW
>
> I notice you didn’t deny that you run a gay porn site? Do you run such a
site?
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:44 EST 2000
Article: 712468 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!
hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
Lines: 64
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
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Message-ID:
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X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949964302 206.156.164.158
(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:58:22 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:58:22 MST
Organization: bCandid – Powering the world’s discussions – http://bCandid.com
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 22:58:22 GMT
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462577
alt.politics.white-power:475027 alt.revisionism:712468
“Orac” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article ,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >In in
> >alt.revisionism, on Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:37:35 GMT, Orac
> > wrote:
> >
> >>In article , “John
> >>Morris” [a.k.a. Don Ellis] wrote:
>
> >>>SO YOU LIKE SHIT, WHAT IS NEW
> >
> >>I notice you didn’t deny that you run a gay porn site? Do you run
> >>such a site?
> >
> >If you have the stomach for it, check out Ellis webpage:
> >
> >http://www.thundernet.org/scat1.html
Broken link> >
> >Be forewarned. Ellis’s pictures are pornographic and depict men
> >smearing each other with their shit and holding it in their mouths.
> >The pictures are thumbnails, and I wish I had not clicked on one of
> >them, because do indeed lead to full-sized images.
> >
> >The pictures come with no explanation and no other visible purpose is
> >served than to make the images available.
> >
> >I would be grateful if anyone who does view the thumbnails would send
> >me an e-mail indicating the web page is as I describe it.
>
> Ugh! You weren’t kidding! After seeing a couple of the thumbnails, I had
> absolutely no desire to see the full-size pictures. The thumbnails were
gross
> enough. Someone else will have to verify that the full-size pictures are
the
> same as the thumbnails for you. That has to be the most disgusting page
I’ve
> ever seen.
IT TURNED YOU ON DIDN’T DAVID
> Don Ellis is one sick puppy for posting such vile photos on a web page
that can
> be accessed by children. It makes one wonder what his purpose is in
posting such
> photos. At least on his anti-gay website, he seems to demonstrate an
unhealthy
> fascination with feces.
SO YOU LOVE SHIT, WHAT IS NEW
> —
> Orac |”A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”–Orac
> a.k.a. |
> David Gorski|”If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
> | inconvenience me with questions?”–Orac again
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:44 EST 2000
Article: 712474 of alt.revisionism
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From: “John Morris”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<32kn4.400$U[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: McVay is a draft dodger
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wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article ,
> Don Ellis, the Grand Dragon of some nutso organization called “The
> American Guardian”, pretending to be “John Morris”
> wrote:
> >
> > “Joel Rosenberg” wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]…
> > >
> > > Don Ellis, the Grand Dragon of “The American Guardian”, a radical
> fringe
> > > nutso group, pretending to be “Mike Kalvatis”
>
> > > wrote in message news:[email protected]…
> > > > I don’t believe on word that comes out of McVay’s mouth. Until he
> > > > proves he was in the Marines, I doubt that he was.
> > > I guess it would be important to somebody who cared what a
> psychopath’s
> > sock
> > > puppet claimed to think.
> > >
> > > I think, on balance, Don, you’ll find that there are very few
> people who
> > > care what a psychopath’s sock puppet claims to think.
> > DOES THAT INCLUDE YOUR DRUNK MOTHER
> I don’t know. I guess you could ask her. Her name is Irene Rosenberg,
> and she’s married to Mervin Rosenberg, who has a listed number. There
> aren’t a lot of Mervin Rosenbergs.
>
> And if you’ve got nothing better to do than expose yourself to the
> legal repercussions of harrassing a couple of rich, mean, politically
> well-connected old people with nothing better to do than see that you
> were tracked down and punished, I guess you could risk your trailer
> (unless you’re renting?) and your freedom and go ahead.
>
> I’d advise against it, though. Let me know what you decide.
> jr
GO FOR IT JR
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
(Page doesn`t exist)
> Before you buy.
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:45 EST 2000
Article: 712567 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <2000020723[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: PLEASE POST PROOF
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Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:712567
PLEASE POST PROOF
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:45 EST 2000
Article: 712568 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References:
Subject: Re: -subject of your message-
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VERY INTERESTING
“Anonymous” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> Ken McVay is a wife beater. That is why you never hear here speak.
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:47 EST 2000
Article: 712569 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <38[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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alt.politics.white-power:475108 alt.revisionism:712569
HEY FAGGOT…I AM JEWISH
From [email protected] Mon Feb 7 22:04:47 EST 2000
Article: 712570 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Doc Tavish to Go Back to Hospital
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:46:36 MST)
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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 02:46:37 GMT
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alt.politics.white-power:475109 alt.revisionism:712570
THERE IS NOTHING THIS JUDGE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
TELL HIM TO KISS TAVISH’S ASS
“Sara Salzman” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article , “John Morris”
> wrote:
> >TAKE CARE DOC, LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANYTHING.
> Well, Mr. Ellis, for one thing, he needs a good lawyer. For another, he
> needs a bus ticket to Allentown, and a place to stay while he’s there.
>
> Otherwise, he’s a cowardly little piece of garbage who is going to make a
> Judge very unhappy.
>
> Sara
> >”Doc Tavish” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
> >> Doc Tavish to Go Back to Hospital
> >>
> >> It’s true and I told you all before that I would have to go back. This
> >will be my
> >> last post for now. I hope to be back by Friday the 11th if the sawbones
> >let me. Please
> >> everybody keep the cauldron boiling with our common and most hated
enemy
> >that I
> >> needn’t name for we all know who has teachings that teach hatred toward
> >the rest of
> >> humanity.
> >> Doc Tavish
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
>
> Calling me a “nazi-boy” is as much of defamation as you can make.
> As for FACTS- I have what I need. You can count on it “Fatbroad”.
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:36 EST 2000
Article: 712571 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,
alt.revisionism
References:
Subject: Re: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:462639
alt.politics.white-power:475113 alt.revisionism:712571
“Sara Salzman” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> In article , “Doc Tavish”
> wrote:
>
> >”Ken McVay” wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]…
> >To Ellis and others, my sex life is none of your damn
> >business. It is no big secret that I am gay, so you
> >have not scored any major points in exposing that.
> >So now tell me, how does my sexual orientation effect
> >my credibility in discussing the Holocaust, and in
> >exposing the deniers for what they are?
> >I’m gay and loving it. Now DEAL WITH IT!
>
> Oh isn’t that SWEET! Scotty “I’m not going to court and you can’t make me”
> Bradbury says he’s going away, and Don “I’ll forge anyone” Ellis
> immediately starts forging his name to let us know he’s not forgotten.
>
> Don’tcha LOVE it when the White Power Boys offer each other a helping
hand?
>
> Sara
HEY BITCH, I AM NOT WHITE POWER, I AM JEWISH
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
>
> Calling me a “nazi-boy” is as much of defamation as you can make.
> As for FACTS- I have what I need. You can count on it “Fatbroad”.
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:36 EST 2000
Article: 712573 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: RE: REPOST: My sex life NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS
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“Ken McVay” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
To Ellis and others, my sex life is none of your damn
business. It is no big secret that I am gay, so you
have not scored any major points in exposing that.
So now tell me, how does my sexual orientation effect
my credibility in discussing the Holocaust, and in
exposing the deniers for what they are?
I’m gay and loving it. Now DEAL WITH IT!
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:37 EST 2000
Article: 712602 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Don Ellis”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ELLIS YOU DEADBEAT PIG…PAY YOUR VET BILL
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:19:38 MST)
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“John Morris” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
> Hash: SHA1
> In many ways, you are worse than Don Ellis. He is a pathetic,
> ineffectual blowhard. You are a criminal.
> – —
> John Morris
> at University of Alberta
John, what he posted is public knowledge. It is also something I’m not
ashamed of, CHPT 13 is only a restructuring of debts. The release date
11-20-1997 shows all promises were completed, every single bill was paid.
The only regret I have is after all the medical bills and other sufferings
we still lost our only son.
—
Don Ellis
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:37 EST 2000
Article: 712606 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Don Ellis”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<4m4v9sgefqbnkosvd[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ELLIS YOU DEADBEAT PIG…PAY YOUR VET BILL
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Your a worthless pig yourself McVay.
“Kenneth McVay OBC” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> Mr. Ellis has shown himself to be worthy only of contempt – he has
> nothing to offer anyone here – but his financial background has
> absolutely nothing to do with his sleazy politics.
>
> “Nazihunter” is as big a fascist as his intended targets.
>
> —
> The Nizkor Project An Electronic Holocaust Education Resource
> RealVideo Filmclips https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen
> from the liberated https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/nordhausen
> camps of Nazi Germany https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:37 EST 2000
Article: 712608 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Don Ellis”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ELLIS YOU DEADBEAT PIG…PAY YOUR VET BILL
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(Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:30:33 MST)
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It could be possible nazihunter is connected to McVay. I don’t expect McVay
to come right out and admit it. Besides, I don’t have a problem with
naxihunter’s posting.
—
Don Ellis
“Mike Kalvatis” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> he either has access to a public records data base
>
> or is forging …
>
> either way, it shows that the backers of Nizkor will stoop to new
> lows. Remember it’s the Bra’i B`rith people that support Nizkor, and
> San Francisco chornicle did a piece on them last week about them
> gathering up personal information on people
>
> If you support Nizkor, you support the garbage that was just posted
> John. However, I do salute you for standing up against it. At least
> you showed a bit of respectability.
>
> Mike
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:38 EST 2000
Article: 712662 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Don Ellis”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MEDICAL RECORDS FOR JUDY M. ELLIS REVEAL SELF-INFLICTED ABORTION
Lines: 17
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Please post the medical records.
—
Don Ellis
“nazihunter” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> THIS IS THE REASON WHY ELLIS IS SO OPPOSED TO ABORTION.
>
> HIS WIFE, WHO HAS A HISTORY OF GIVING BIRTH TO BABIES WITH
MICROENCEPHALITIS, SELF-ABORTED HER SON.
>
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:38 EST 2000
Article: 712664 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Orac”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,soc.culture.jewish
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: PLEASE POST PROOF
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PLEASE POST PROOF
From [email protected] Tue Feb 8 21:38:39 EST 2000
Article: 712718 of alt.revisionism
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From: “Jeffery G. Brown”
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: PLEASE POST PROOF
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PLEASE POST PROOF
“Kenneth McVay OBC” wrote in message
news:[email protected]…
> Archive/File: places/poland/einsatzgruppen blobel.01
> Last-modified: 1996/02/05
>
> “The commander of Sonderkommando 4a, which had reached Kiev just behind
the
> army, was Paul Blobel. Even among a crowd of mass murderers, Blobel
> distinguished himself through his crudity and bloodthirstiness. Early in
the
> Russian campaign he had suffered from dysentery, which he attempted to
treat
> with liquor. In spite of his cure, Blobel was able to carry out his
duties;
> and his unit left a trail of blood along its route to Kiev. Perhaps his
most
> barbaric action before Kiev was his execution of Jewish children from an
> orphanage in Bjala Zerkow in late August. Nor was Blobel the only guilty
> party there; the army became involved as well. After Colonel Groscurth
tried
> to block the action in Bjala Zerkow, General von Reichenau, commander of
the
> German Sixth Army, allowed the completion of the executions. <19> If
> Reichenau had no objections to the killing of Jewish children, he would
not
> blanch at broad actions to deal with the percieved Jewish threat to German
> security. So Blobel knew he had a free hand in Kiev.
>
> After a meeting with Einsatzgruppe A Commander Rasch, Blobel recognized
what
> had to be done. First he had explosives placed under the nearly
> nine-hundred-year-old Dormtion Cathedral at the Perchersk Monastery and
blew
> up a good portion of that building. On September 28 he had the Ukrainian
> auxiliary police post notices on the walls of buildings ordering all Jews
to
> appear at 8:00 a.m. at a designated location on Dekhyarevskaya Street. He
> gave out word orally that the entire Jewish population was to be
resettled.
> Actually there was to be a mass execution of a large number of Jews, as
> Blobel informed a few police drivers who had just arrived in Kiev and were
> waiting for their vehicles to be repaired. These Jews he described as
> asocial, without worth, and intolerable for Germany. In addition, there
> would be executions of patients in mental asylums and other `useless
> eaters.’ Because of the lack of manpower, Blobel said, the drivers would
> have to participate in the action too.<20>
>
> More than thrity thousand Jews showed up on the morning of September 29 in
> spite of cold weather. A German minister stayed behind with the kitchen
> staff to make tea for the troops of the commando unit and the units of
> Police Regiment South, which had been called in to help. German forces
> blocked off the streets as Jews were led in long lines in the direction of
a
> ravine in the northwest part of Kiev, which was called Babi Yar. As they
> walked, the Jews chanted religious songs. One German policeman present
> thought that they knew what was in store for them.<21>
>
> Blobel had his driver bring him to the top of the ravine, where he stood
and
> watched as the Jews were marched in below, by this time clad only in
> underwear. They were forced to lie face down, and the executioners, also
at
> the base of the ravine, equipped with Schmeisser automatic rifles, tried
to
> shoot them in the back of the head, per instructions. Because of the mass
of
> victims, some were shot several times over, others only wounded. Then the
> next batch came in and lay down on top of the first. According to one of
the
> executioners, Blobel yelled frequently to his men below, complaining that
> the killings were not going fast enough. The killers worked in shifts, and
> they were kept supplied with ammunition and rum. At the end of the day
lime
> chloride was spread on top of the layers of bodies. <22> After two days’
> work by Blobel’s men and their helpers, Blobel proudly reported executing
> 33, 771 Jews in an operation that had goine quite smoothly.<23>”
>
> <19> Interrogations of Julius Bauer, 2 Aug. 1965, and Rudi Paltzo, 27-28
> July 1965, Callsen Trial, Ludwigsburg 207 AR-Z419/62, 85-87, photo-
> copies in my possession.
> <20> Interrogation of Heinrich August Bernhard Huhn, 16 March 1966, Trial
> of Kuno Callsen et al, Ludwigsburg 207 AR-Z419/62, photocopies in my
> possession. EM #106, 7 Oct 1941, NA RG 242, T-175/R234/2722806.
> Interrogation of Viktor Trill, 25 June 1960, Trial of Kuno Callsen,
> Ludwigsburg 207 AR-Z419/62, 12-13, photocopies in my possession.
Based
> on the course of events Trill described, Blobel’s remarks to the
> drivers occured on the evening of 29 Sept, after the first day’s
> executions.
> <21> Interrogation of Huhn, 16 March 1966.
> <22> This description is based primarily on the highly detailed testimony
> in the interrogation of Viktor Trill, 25 June 1960. Other
participants
> provide support for some particulars – see, for example, the
> interrogation of Huhn, 16 March 1966; interrogation of Erich von
> Heidborn, 13 Jan. 1966, Callsen Trial, Ludwigsburg 206 AR-Z419/62,
> 687-88.
> <23> EM #106, 7 Oct. 1941, NA RG 242, T-175/R 234/2722806
>
> Work Cited:
> Breitman, Richard. The Architect of Genocide: Himmler and the Final
> Solution. New York: Alfred E. Knopf, 1991
> See also: Browning, Christopher. Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion
> 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. New York: HarperCollins
> [1992], 18, for general comments about Police Battalion 45 and
> the massacre at Babi Yar, which references:
>
> Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen, Ludwigsburg, II
> 204 AR-Z 1251-65 (Landgericht Regensburg, judgment Ks 6/70):
> 9-35; and 204 AR-Z 1251/65, 2:230-77 (report of Bavarian State
> Criminal Office, Munich, September 10, 1968.
>
> See also p. 135 and p. 160. These are all brief mentions of
> Babi Yar, without details, as the book is focused more on the
> police battalions themselves and the men in them than in the
> events in which they participated.
>
> —
> The Nizkor Project An Electronic Holocaust Education Resource
> RealVideo Filmclips https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen
> from the liberated https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/nordhausen
> camps of Nazi Germany https://nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen
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ARE YOU A HOMOSEXUAL?
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