Michael P. Stein writes:
In article <[email protected]>
[email protected]
> >
> >On April 15, 1945, Belsen’s commanders turned over the camp to British
> >troops, who lost no time
> >mistreating the SS camp personnel. The Germans were beaten with rifle
> >butts, kicked, and
> >stabbed with bayonets. Most were shot or worked to death. (note 22)
There is reliable documentation that at least 2 SS men were shot on the
takeover.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:09:54 PDT 1996
Article: 62019 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 96 17:32:01 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]>
> >I specifically asked for proof of Streicher being a publisher of pornography
> >by posting directly from his publications. Give me quotes directly from “Der
> Stuermer”,
Der Stuermer was a very disreputable magazine; it was banned three or four times
under the Nazis. If he hadn’t been a favourite of Hitler, Streicher would have ended
up in a concentration camp.
> “In Berlin, Nazi physicians used a particularly repellent combination
> of anti-semitism and pornography worthy of Der Stuermer to bring about
> the removal of their Jewish ‘colleagues’ and competitors.
This sounds less like anti-Semitism than pragmatism.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:09:55 PDT 1996
Article: 62022 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewish Revisionist accused of racism and perverting historical “truth”
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 96 18:37:45 GMT
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
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$The woman who defied political correctness: Mary Lefkowitz has
outraged some academics by insisting the Socrates was Greek$, by
Michael Grove, published in the $Times$, September 2, 1996, page
15.
A hilarious report on an American Jewish academic who has taken
on the “Afro-Centrist” nonsense that Africa is the centre of
Western civilisation. Her book $Not out of Africa$ has been con-
demned as part of a Jewish plot to discredit black civilisation
[sic]. Apparently she was assailed with this and allegations of
“white racism”.
She says too that feminists have tried to rewrite history for
ideological reasons. “They twisted the truth and blamed past
inequalities on patriarchal oppression when what limited women’s
lives was their biology.”
I say she should be made an honorary member of the IHR.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 21:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 62426 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 00:13:38 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “tom moran” writes:
> Mr.Edeiken, claimed he
> had lost 160 relatives in the Holocaust and Moran challenged him.
> Mr.Edeiken said he was going to post the proof, “I will this weekend”.
> Nothing ever came of it.
To lose one relative is unfortunate. To lose 160 is careless.
Actually, this is one of the biggest Exterminationist tricks. They make outrageous
claims, lies, say they will back them up, then don’t. For the obvious reason.
Does anyone remember the thread about the photograph of the gas chamber that
was supposed to exist in action? This is mentioned by Reitlinger. Then there are
the documents which are supposed to refer to extermination. They are all
quietly forgotten now.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 21:10:20 PDT 1996
Article: 62429 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Being Both Jewish And Nazi
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 00:08:18 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> I see. So it is of no importance what the ADL say. You may interpret
> their words and their opinion s to give them a meaning they never had. The
> ADL has never made the statement — that believing it is “possible” that the
> Holocaust never happened demonstrates anti-Semitism. Thank you for pointing
> out that Lyin’ Al was, indeed lying.
Let me get this straight, questioning the Holocaust is not “anti-Semitism” in
the ADL’s book?
>
> > ! You have been asked for a cite to something from the ADL. You
> have
> > ! failed utterly to do so.
I gave you plenty of citations, check out Crying Wolf to start with. These
scumbags have been successfully sued for libel on more than one occasion. The
fact that you appear to support them both unquestioningly and uncritically
gives further ammunition to organised anti-Semites. But that’s really not
surprising knowing you.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 21:10:21 PDT 1996
Article: 62432 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Very First Extermination Accusation
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 00:16:22 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> I believe I have traced the very first written reference
> to Hitler and mass exterminations. In the Illustrated
> London Daily News, the following report appeared:
There were claims even before that. As soon as Hitler took power in fact.
At one point the Jewish Chronicle even accused Jewish organisations of
spreading false propaganda!
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 4 23:30:10 PDT 1996
Article: 62444 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 96 23:59:12 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84143[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> Please don’t give me the usual Lyin’ Al bullshit to “check out” some
> nutcase or other. Give me direct references to Reitlinger or the Jewish
> Chronicle
Did you say please?
The citation I gave for Reitlinger is a reference to Jews still in Berlin in
1944.
Do what I did and read the Jewish Chronicle for the entire Nazi era; there is
some amazing stuff in there. I have posted this recently.
> where such a statement was made.
>
> –YFE
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 07:28:42 PDT 1996
Article: 62515 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who owns the Fed? Baron answers his critics
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 00:02:42 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84134[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> By the way: do you know what a “white elephant” is? I doubt that
> even a nutball like like Allen described *any* federal reserve bank as one.
Allen was not a nut and he did.
> > > 2. That those banks are owned by the “national” banks in the
> region
> > > in which they operate and the board of governors is appointed by the
> president.
>
> No answer from Lyin’ Al.
And the American people own the debt they owe to themselves?
> I have never read LOBSTER. If they favorably reviewed your
> compilation of letters from the lunatic fringe, I doubt I would ever wish to.
LOBSTER is a prestigious journal of para-politics. Why don’t you take up the
argument with [email protected]? They sound quite impressive to me.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 5 15:42:21 PDT 1996
Article: 62696 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Are there any non-Jew-hating revisionists?
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 18:05:42 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article [email protected] “Dave Harman OBC” writes:
> In <50fvfl$5h[email protected]> [email protected] (Allan Matthews)
> writes:
>
> ! I’ve been following this group for some time and it appears to me that all
> the
> ! revisionists who post here are overt Jew-haters.
You are wrong, but when Jewish groups and individuals stamp on people’s faces you
can hardly expect them to sing Hatikva.
I suppose this follows
> given
> ! that in order to believe the revisionist line one has to accept that there
> was
> ! and is a massive Jewish conspiracy involving the Holocaust.
This is not the Revisionist line, this is a lie spread by certain Jews and their
fellow travellers.
> ! Are there any revisionists around who don’t think Jews are evil or who don’t
> ! hate them?
Only anti-Semites hate Jews. By definition. Don’t fall for the the twisted logic
of the Exterminationist lobby.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:23 PDT 1996
Article: 62921 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 20:59:47 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84188[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> The point is a simple one. That many members of my extended family (I
> included those related by marriage) were murdered.
>
> Can they be named?
>
> A piece of cake. But pay for the privilege, Lyin’ Al. Propose a wager
> on
> it. $100.00 a name would be about right. Care to put your money up?
It’s ironic really, I’ve never believed all this crap about Jews and money,
now you come along and prove me wrong. I wonder what the Chief Rabbi Emeritus
would say; devout Jews are totally opposed to the squalid commercialising of
the Holocaust. Better still, why don’t you get together with Simon (I lost 77
relatives) Wiesenthal and Clare (I lost 227 on my mother’s side alone)? You could
make a fortune.
The real point of your post and your simulated anger is to project moral outrage.
This is a discussion group; if you want catharsis, join a drama class.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:24 PDT 1996
Article: 62924 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 20:50:31 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <841685521s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> . I am not arguing whether Der Stuermer was filled
> with anti-Jewish verbiage. This is a common fact. I am asking for proof that
> Streicher printed pornography in a sexual sense, as is claimed by practically
> all of his detractors. That is all I am asking: Give us selections which prove> what he published was pornographic in a sexual sense, or admit that his
> detractors have lied and published false and slanderous accusations.
I don’t think he did print porn in the modern sense; I think when the
Exterminationist lobby refer to porn they mean lewd stuff or sexually
suggestive (ie Rassenschande). In a broad sense that is porn. According to
Professor Butz, Streicher once claimed in Stuermer that Goerring’s daughter
had been fathered by artificial insemination. Most people would consider that
claim pornographic in a certain context.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 07:23:24 PDT 1996
Article: 62929 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 21:01:40 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84188[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]>
> Baron, Mr.Edeiken wants to make a bet. He says he will present
> them for 100 dollars a name. Anyone can write names. Tell him you’ll
> take the bet if he can include convincing documentation that each name
> was his relative, that they were exterminated in German camps.
>
> We shouldn’t forget he said he was going to do it before, ‘I will
> this weekend” and then after being challenged more months down the
> road he submitted an “retraction”.
I don’t dispute that he did lose some relatives in the war; so did many other
people. But I didn’t kill them.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 6 10:59:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62950 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher – Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 17:58:17 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
Try replacing the word Jews with white race in speeches like this.
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > Streicher? A truly revolting pig he was, and he finished at the end
> > of a sturdy rope.
> >
> > Which will probably make him a martyr someday.
> > ———————————————————–
> > p. 4:
> > [Speech by Julius Streicher, September 5 1937, reported in the
> > Fraenkische Tageszeitung]
> >
> > Full and final victory will have
> > been achieved only when the whole world has been rid of the Jews.
> >
> > p. 7: He who helps to bring this about helps to eliminate the devil.
> > And this devil is the Jew.
> > : Expulsion or extermination! Both methods have been
> > tried in the course of the centuries, but they were never carried
> > to a conclusion…
>
> And of course Streicher was in a position to give orders to execute Jews..you
> can provide that documentation for us, can’t you?
>
> > , that in this war not the
> > Aryan race will be destroyed, but the Jew will be exterminated.
>
> > -Danny Keren.
> Mr. Keren-I don’t know why, but I expected more from you. Are you suggesting,
> as apparently you are-that Streicher deserved death simply because of what he
> wrote as quoted above, or similar statements? If so, then you give the
> impression
> of being sicker than Streicher.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 8 08:01:11 PDT 1996
Article: 63473 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Very First Extermination Accusation
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 96 21:05:54 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <841882582s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> Concerning the claims you make above-Source?
Jewish Chronicle, April 14, 1933, page 5:
“…certain Jewish organisations abroad circulated exaggerated atrocity
stories.”
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 9 14:45:08 PDT 1996
Article: 63875 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK ITS NAME
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 96 18:13:29 GMT
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In article
ka[email protected] “Charles R.L. Power” writes:
> [email protected] writes:
>
> >Has anyone noticed how the affirmers will not touch the post
> >”STREICHER vs EHRENBURG” with a 10 foot pole? Might
> >elicit some awkward philosophical premises.
Ilya Ehrenburg: “No longer do we say: $Good morning$ or $Good night$. In the morning we say:
$Kill a German$, and in the evening: $Kill a German$.
Books, love, the stars no longer matter. The only thing that matters is to
kill the Germans. To kill them all. To bury them…For us there is nothing
more beautiful than German corpses. $Kill a German!$ – this is what the old
mother begs of you. $Kill a German!$ – this is what a child implores.
Germans are not human beings. Germans are biped animals, disgusting creatures,
beasts. Germans are amoebae, soulless microbes, but equipped with machines, guns, mortars.
If you have killed one German, kill another – nothing gladdens us more
than German corpses.”
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 10 13:21:57 PDT 1996
Article: 64172 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 96 21:02:30 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84188[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “tom moran” writes:
> Who was or is Clare. I’m collecting Holocaust claims.
Some wanker – I’m not sure if it’s male or female – who, in 1994, made the
bald claim that he/she had lost 227 family members on the mother’s side alone.
I disputed this and – naturally – was denounced as “anti-Semitic”.
Poor
> Mr.Edeiken really claimed the 160 came from one side of his family
> also. It was all brought on by a posting of an article in the
> L.A.Times that reported some guy financing Zionist right wingers (As
> if there is anything else) who said he had lost 120. As it stands,
> with just the four people mentioned here, they lost a total of 584
> relatives.
> But wait a minute. Since Mr.Edeiken had to “retract” his claim
> under questioning and demands to prove it, we have only 424. Now if we
> had the chance to confront the others, the answer would end up at 0.
I wouldn’t mock the dead, even to a slimeball like Yale; I don’t dispute that he
lost some, maybe a lot, of relatives in the war, but I do take offence that he
appears to hold me responsible for it in some measure and smears me as sympathetic
to mass murder simply because I have the temerity to refuse to accept at face
value all the shit Jewish and other groups tell us we’re supposed to believe
of the wicked Nazis.
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 10 15:03:45 PDT 1996
Article: 64179 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 18:24:01 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> > [email protected] (Daniel Keren) writes:
> > [email protected] writes:
> One is
> a certain Dr. Nyiszli-one of your near sanctified auschwitz “witnesses”. You
> may have
> a problem setting up an appointment to see him though, as he seems to have
> vanished
> at the end of the war. Aside from that, we are now told that he is dead.
> Could you
> please obtain his death certificate and post it?
Dr Nyiszli did exist; I have found incontrovertible proof. I am not willing to
say anything further at this stage.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 10 17:31:03 PDT 1996
Article: 64215 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 18:46:11 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Laurinda Stryker” writes:
>School of Historical and Critical Studies
>University of Brighton
>10-11 Pavilion Parade
>Brighton BN2 1RA UK
Brighton: the home of Historical Review Press. They’ll be distributing my
publications soon. After they’ve cleaned up from the latest arson attack.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 10 17:31:04 PDT 1996
Article: 64219 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 18:15:12 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84188[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > Alexander Baron writes:
> > In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken”
> writes:
>
> > > Please don’t give me the usual Lyin’ Al bullshit to “check out”
> some
> > > nutcase or other. Give me direct references to Reitlinger or the Jewish
> > > Chronicle
>
> > Did you say please?
>
> > The citation I gave for Reitlinger is a reference to Jews still in Berlin in > > 1944.
>
> Reilinger has written several books, many articles, and made many
> public
> statements. Where can the statement you cited be found and how did Reitlinger
> use it to show that Jews were not imprisoned for being Jews.
>
> –YFE
THE FINAL SOLUTION The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe
1939 1945, by Gerald Reitlinger, published by Vallentine, Mit-
chell, London, (1953). 622 pages. Index.
page 161: After May 19th 1943, Berlin was
officially “Jew-free” but 18,000 or so remained, some of them
roaming the streets. All the rest had been deported to Auschwitz
and Theresienstadt
page 164: one of the criteria for being deported to Auschwitz was
smoking a cigarette in the street.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 10 23:09:08 PDT 1996
Article: 64307 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 18:16:41 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84213[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> 3. No one died during Kristallnacht.
When did I say no one died during Kristallnacht?
> 4. The continuation of WW II was the result of the rejection by
> Churchill of Hitler’s “magnanimous” offer of peace terms.
And pressure by, among others, American Jews.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 16:34:21 PDT 1996
Article: 65190 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 12:31:41 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Michael P. Stein” writes:
> >
> >># In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
> >># trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
> >># Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
> >># Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
> >># gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
I think this is an honest mistake. Dr Charles Bendel testified that at
Auschwitz up to a thousand people an hour were disposed of in the pits. That’s
a far cry from 80,000 a day but it’s nearly as absurd.
There is genuine confusion over this trial because there were two charges,
one relating to Belsen and the other to Auschwitz, but it is known as the
Belsen Trial.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 16:34:22 PDT 1996
Article: 65191 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <323171[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<84[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 12:36:24 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Laurinda Stryker” writes:
> Alexander Baron wrote:
> >
> > In article <323221FE.1[email protected]> [email protected] “Laurinda Stryker”
> writes:
> >
> > >School of Historical and Critical Studies
> > >University of Brighton
> > >10-11 Pavilion Parade
> > >Brighton BN2 1RA UK
> >
> > Brighton: the home of Historical Review Press.
>
> [snip]
>
> Hardly. Uckfield ain’t Brighton, believe me.
>
> Guess you don’t know much about East Sussex.
The printworks is at Uckfield, the mailing address is Madeira Place, Brighton.
Okay? Arsehole.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 18:19:36 PDT 1996
Article: 65214 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84229[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 12:20:09 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > Alexander Baron writes:
> >
> > THE FINAL SOLUTION The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe
> > 1939 1945, by Gerald Reitlinger, published by Vallentine, Mit-
> > chell, London, (1953). 622 pages. Index.
> >
> > page 161: After May 19th 1943, Berlin was
> > officially “Jew-free” but 18,000 or so remained, some of them
> > roaming the streets. All the rest had been deported to Auschwitz
> > and Theresienstadt
> > page 164: one of the criteria for being deported to Auschwitz was
> > smoking a cigarette in the street.
>
> Odd, isn’t it that when the original statement is read it directly
> contradicts
> your statement that Jews weren’t deported to concentration camps?
>
You do have a problem, don’t you Yale. I never said Jews were not deported
to concentration camps. Go back and read it again.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 13 18:19:37 PDT 1996
Article: 65215 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84213[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<842293001sn[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 12:22:17 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Ken Lewis” writes:
> On Mon, 09 Sep 96 18:16:41 GMT, Alexander Baron
> wrote:
>
> >And pressure by, among others, American Jews.
>
> Citations please.
Are you serious? Check out some of the poison that was spewed out by them
at the time. Or the activities of the Fight For “Freedom” Fund. You people
always want it both ways.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 14 08:50:35 PDT 1996
Article: 65388 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: delays and problems
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 09:19:12 GMT
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I haven’t been able to download most of the group for several days due
to software problems. Anyone feels I’ve neglected them please send me an E-mail
Thanks.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 15 20:28:57 PDT 1996
Article: 65938 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: white being exterminated
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 14:06:13 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] ”
” writes:
> 1
>
> Social and economic policies of government will exterminate the white
> people of this country.
Good riddance to you too, you filthy Aryan goyim.
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 16 10:59:57 PDT 1996
Article: 66088 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 21:14:07 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
dmittle[email protected] “Danny Mittleman” writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (tom
> moran) writes…
> >
> > A “goyim” is a non-Jew.
Goyim (singular goy) means literally nations. Including the nation of Israel.
It can be used as a term of contempt as with many vernacular words.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 17 13:55:56 PDT 1996
Article: 66393 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Specifications For “Proof”
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 21:16:56 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “tom moran” writes:
> Deborah Lipstadt is a lead mouth in perpetuating the Holocaust story
> and author of the childish book “Beyond Belief” which strives to make
> the United States complicit in the Holocaust story.
>
> She has her reasons for not meeting the challenges for debate.
Lipstadt is a polemicist and Jewish propagandist masquerading as an
historian. But that’s nothing new.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 18 09:13:03 PDT 1996
Article: 66603 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: WHY HITLER WAS WRONG!!! (was Re: Nazism v. Communism (
was Re: Milton Kleim)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 16:52:26 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected](Jean “Jean A Robards” writes:
> He only killed six million worthless kikes.Not enough.
Thank you Mr Robards. Or should that be Cohen?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:40:58 PDT 1996
Article: 66699 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Kristalnacht in England
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32356f1f.74[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 22:04:20 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “tom moran” writes:
> Brian Harmon wrote:
>
> >tom moran wrote:
> >> When David Irving’s book “Goebbels” went on sale in England
> >> “someone” went around and broke the windows of the book stores selling
> >> the book. Then the ‘someones’ left a note telling the shop owners if
> >> they wanted to make sure there was no more kristalnachting they better
> >> stop selling the book.
> >
> >Erh, tom?
> >
> >What’s your source for this?
There was a well organised campaign to stop shops taking the book, including
one or two acts of vandalism. ANAL (the so-called Anti-Nazi League), boasted
of defacing advertising posters. I don’t think in all honesty you can liken
it to Kristallnacht though. I think Mr Moran was probably being sarcastic.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:40:59 PDT 1996
Article: 66701 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84213[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<842293001sn[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<842617337snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 22:01:56 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Angus M. McLellan” writes:
> Mr Baron is wrong again (i.e. business as usual). Whether this is the
> result of a deliberate attempt to mislead (i.e. a lie) or of plain
> ignorance, I neither know nor care.
>
> To business:
> 1. The BBC rejected Hitler’s “last appeal to reason” without any
> reference to Churchill’s Government. The issue of whether that
> Government was dominated by Jewish or Zionist interests is therefore
> irrelevant.
The man who rejected it was Sefton Delmer, and employee of the Psychological
Warfare Executive, and an arm of the British Government.
[Even extreme right-wing hacks like Andrew Roberts don’t
> agree with Baron on this.] So much for Jewish/Zionist conspiracies.
That wonderful word conspiracy again; use it in the same sentence as Jew
and you can shut anybody up. Or so you think.
> 3. Fight for Freedom, which Mr Baron appears to suggests had some
> impact on the decision to reject the “last appeal to reason”, was not
> even in existence at the time. FFF was formed as an offshoot from the
> Committee to Defend America … only in 1941. Three strikes and out.
No I didn’t, I said simply – citing a Jewish source – that Organised Jewry
wanted war. Before the US entered the war, Zionist hatemongers were doing
their best to whip up hatred against Germany. Granted they weren’t the only
ones, but they still deserve part of the blame.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 07:41:00 PDT 1996
Article: 66799 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen’s Teeth
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <32370775.1[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:10:28 GMT
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> In article <3[email protected]>, [email protected] (Mike
> Curtis) wrote:
>
> > Herr Schwarzesel wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > >c. “Nazi Mass Murder” by Eugon Kogon, et. al.
> >
> > Kogon, as far as I’m aware, is not an historian. My understanding is
> > that he was in the camps and these writings were memoirs along with
> > detailed research on the death camps within Germany.
Kogon was a Catholic who was interned by the Nazis.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:30 PDT 1996
Article: 66824 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: the deciside charge aginst the jews
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<51ie13$a[email protected]> <[email protected]>,
<51mkc[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:12:40 GMT
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In article <51mvrh[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> [email protected] (j.b. Digriz) writes:
> >[email protected] (Randolph Parrish) writes:
>
> >>>Martin Luther wrote a booklet called “Of the Jews and Their Lies”. In
> >>>it the following passage can be found.
> >>
> >>>First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire, and
Luther was not an anti-Semite, he was a religious fanatic who railed against
a rival religion and, like fanatics everywhere and in every time, believed the
end justified the means. Burning synagogues is hardly a good way to make converts
anymore than throwing “anti-Semites” into gaol is a good way of making people
love Jews.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Thu Sep 19 11:55:31 PDT 1996
Article: 66825 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Anti-Racists Control Everything
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:13:54 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] writes:
> > In [email protected]
> > writes:
> >
> > ! > Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf is illegal in Germany.
> > !
> > ! If you were paying attention, you’d know that people who LIVE IN GERMANY
> > ! have already disputed this stupid lie.
I think it was illegal up until a few years ago. It is certainly illegal
to display swastikas and the like.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 15:52:59 PDT 1996
Article: 67146 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <50agrb$17s@sjx> <[email protected]>
<6GvA2dIK[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 14:46:27 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Matt Giwer” writes:
> >In Scotland, last March, a man walked into a school gym and shot
> >sixteen five-year-old children and their teacher dead. Many
> >others were injured. The only reason, it would appear, that the
> >carnage was not worse was because he had been misled as to when
> >the entire school was due to assemble.
And when we take over we will march into your synagogues and gun you all
down, every single one of you. And you won’t be able to do anything about
it because, like the dumb Yids you are, you have voted away the right to
bear arms under the constitution.
And when we’ve finished the kikes we’ll start on the niggers, then the queers,
then the…
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 15:53:01 PDT 1996
Article: 67150 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: The Mayer Gambit still won’t fly
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3237077[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<51phue$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 15:01:02 GMT
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> The “revisionists”, that is, Holocaust deniers and Nazi
> apologists, are the scum of the Earth, and there’s no wonder
> they used Mayer’s writings in a deceptive manner, just
> as they misquote and selectively quote another zillion people.
You always say the nicest things, Dan. Is it really “anti-Semitism” when people
repay you in the same coin?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 18:38:18 PDT 1996
Article: 67157 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: The Mayer Gambit still won’t fly
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51ohhr[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 14:58:05 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> > [email protected] (Richard Schultz) writes:
> > Ken McVay OBC ([email protected]) wrote:
> >
> > : Thank you for mentioning Arno Mayer. I assume you accept what
> > : he has written above as correct, and, when you cited him, you
> > : cited him in context, as I have done, right?
> >
> > Actually, in my mind, by far the biggest weakness of his book was its
> > lack of footnotes (I have been told that Goldhagen’s book, which I have
> > not read, suffers from the same problem — so much for the quality of
> > historical research at Princeton and Harvard these days). In Mayer’s
> > case, it makes him look especially bad, because the documents that
> > disprove his main thesis are actually rather easy to find.
Mayer states that he has excluded footnotes because they would have
swamped the book. I think this is a very good book and up to a point I agree
with his thesis. It was written for a general readership.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 18:38:19 PDT 1996
Article: 67158 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Kreiberg’s plans to deport Danish citizens
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 14:50:52 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Annie Alpert, OFB” writes:
> Ole Kreiberg wrote:
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> The difference — which you refuse to recognize — is that the
> > >people who you are talking about are not “illegal immigrants.” They are>
> >Danish citizens either by birth or because they obtained that citizenship>
> >by legal means.
> >
> > The problem is that they have a Danish citizenship without being Danes or>
> closely related to the Danes.
> >
> Ole, anyone who lives in Denmark, whose family lived in Denmark for
> hundreds of years, who pays Dnaish taxes, abides by the Dnaish laws, and
> hold Danish citizenship is a DANE, in my book.
Israel prepares to deport 100,000 foreign workers, by Ross Dunn, published in
the Times, August 24, 1996, page 9.
Israel is said to be drawing up plans to expel more than 100,000 illegal foreign
workers “fearing they represent a social time bomb which could challenge the
very identity of the Jewish state.”
One leading political/religious spokesman quoted thus: Israel was not intended
as a refuge for “people from all over who do not belong here”.
Israelis said to want to preserve the Jewishness of their state.
The struggle against “racism” has always been for the goyim. But of course you
know that, don’t you?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 18:38:20 PDT 1996
Article: 67163 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 15:05:38 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> When Kramer was appointed as Commandant of the Belsen camp, this is what he was
> told:
>
> “He was….told that Belsen was to become a Krankenlager, a camp for sick
> people from all
> the other camps in North West Germany. He was not told that thousands would be
> coming
> pouring in from the Eastern part of Germany as the Russians advanced. On 1st
> December
> he arrived at Belsen and on the next day he wrote a letter….to his former
> chief at Auschwitz
> in which he described what Belsen was like…..
>
> (Portions of his letter are quoted below):
At the Belsen Trial Kramer was accused of fabricating that letter prior to the
arrival of the British. It is ironic is it not that no one bats an eyelid
when the Nazis are accused of forging documents.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 20 18:38:21 PDT 1996
Article: 67165 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84188[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 14:55:41 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <32319D51.30[email protected]> [email protected] “Chuck Ferree” writes:
> Chuck Ferree writes:
>
> the baron says he doesn’t dispute that “he” meaning another person,
> did lose some relatives in the war; so did many other people. But “he”
> meaning the baron didn’t kill them. Sounds like scrambled eggs to me.
> The baron is a full-fledged liar-denier. I can’t imagine this turkey
> admitting that people were killed in the Holocaust by the Nazis. One
> reason it’s difficult for me believe the baron is he has been caught
> in so many lies, and never proves any of his claims…for
> example…there was no gas chamber at Dachau. Which of course there
> certainly was. Then he slips up and says, well maybe there was a gas
> chamber at Dachau, but it was only used to kill vermin. The Nazis and
> especially the SS considered Jews to be vermin.
Stop splitting hairs Chuck, we both know what I meant was that there were
no homicidal gassings at Dachau. And we both know that after the war the Americans
palmed off a delousing chamber on the world as a gas chamber.
I also pointed out that a pair of lying scheming Zionist Jews (par for the course)
had, in South Africa in 1976, misrepresented this “evidence” as part of their
successful campaign to suppress Revisionism in South Africa.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 12:59:56 PDT 1996
Article: 67385 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 22:16:38 GMT
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In article <32414E2D.7[email protected]> [email protected] “Chuck Ferree” writes:
> Chuck Ferree writes:
>
> Her husband, the commandant of Buchenwald was executed by the SS? I
> didn’t know that, and I think I still don’t know that.
He was executed in April 1945 according to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 12:59:57 PDT 1996
Article: 67386 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: the deciside charge aginst the jews
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 22:06:11 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> You mean like the way you are prepared to falsify history in order to
> make people hate Jews?
I don’t falsify history; I have gone on record as denoucing fraud, this is now
long in the public domain. The only “fraud” you denounce is that which conflicts
with your ideology.
> The real unanswered question is whether you were in jail for some
> reason other than your antisemitism. The words “fraud” and “assault”
> spring to mind.
“Anti-Semitism” is not a criminal offence in Britain. Yet. Which is just as
well as according to the ADL, 20% of the adult population would be in gaol.
Re the other allegations, I suggest you come to the trial – which will be a
purely civil affair, and the trial of the century.
>
> BTW, could you post your libel of Roger Eatwell again. The original
> got lost while I was away.
Roger Eatwell is a jellyfish; in public he rages against Holocaust Revisionists;
in private he told me something completely different. Libel is that which lowers
one’s estimation in the eyes of right thinking men. Branding a man a Holocaust
Revisionist is not libel, indeed, it might be considered praise because to be
a Revisionist requires a certain moral courage.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 21 12:59:58 PDT 1996
Article: 67387 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Mr. Baron: liar and hatemonger
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 22:27:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Rich Graves” writes:
> [email protected] writes:
> >
> >From: Anonymous
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: ADL_mil (militias and the USAF)
>
> Mr. Baron has posted a selective edit of a selective anonymous edit of a
> Christian Coalition web page which has since been removed.
Actually I was sent this by a Libertarian with no comment attached. However,
I have done enough research on the ADL to know what a bunch of liars, whiners
and scumbags they are. A short while ago they published a smear job on the
militias which was the subject of fierce criticism in a Libertarian journal.
I believe the
> Christian Coalition has retracted a number of its allegations. The
> cypherpunks thread in context is at:
which allegations have they retracted, exactly?
> One of the parts that Alex skipped:
“Alex” didn’t skip anything; “Alex” posted what he was sent.
>
> | The supreme tragedy of the ADL report is there is a resurgent
> | anti-Semitism across the land emanating from sources as wide-ranging as
> | the Ku Klux Klan, former Farrakhan lieutenant Kahlid Abdul Muhammad (who
> | called New York city “Jew York City”), David Duke, and some opponents of
> | the Israeli lobby. But an inaccurate, biased, and politically motivated
> | report like the recent ADL offering undermines efforts to combat
> | anti-Semitism. By crying wolf, the ADL endangers its credibility at a
> | time of rising bigotry and a period of extraordinary delicacy in the
> | Middle East peace process.
A Black Moslem calls New York Jew York and that is “anti-Semitism”? Where
exactly is all this bigotry? Where are the pogroms? Where are the Jews being
dragged screaming from their houses and thrown onto bonfires? Where are the
Jim Crow laws and Uncle Toms (Uncle Moses)? The simple fact is that these people
are like a bunch of whining schoolchildren: “Johnny called me a kike, stop him
before he turns me into a lampshade.”
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 00:08:46 PDT 1996
Article: 67519 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: The ADL: liars and hatemongers
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:04:45 GMT
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From: Anonymous
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ADL_mil (militias and the USAF)
“The Anti-Defamation League has committed defamation. There is no
other conclusion to be reached after reading its new report, The
Religious Right: The Assault on Tolerance and Pluralism in Ameri-
ca. It is sad that an organization with a proud history of fair-
ness should have descended to this kind of character assassina-
tion and name calling.”
– Columnist Mona Charen (1)
“In my twelve Senate years I worked with many of the ‘Reli-
gious Right.’ They were active in the cause of Soviet Jewry
(many Pentecostals and other Christians couldn’t leave the Soviet
Union either). They were fervent supporters of the State of
Israel and we worked together often. Among the leadership of
Conservative Christians I never experienced even a hint of anti-
Semitism. Indeed, it was quite the opposite-I am Honorary Vice-
Chairman of the ADL. I am proud of that-But in this instance I
strongly disagree. From all my experience I know their report to
be ill-founded. Regretably it will do more harm than good.”
– Former U.S. Senator Rudy Boschwitz, Honorary Vice-Chair-
man, ADL
Introduction
On June 9, 1994, the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith,
an organization created to fight defamation, released a report
that alleges – with shoddy research and threadbare scholarship –
that politically active people of faith pose a threat to the
survival of American constitutional democracy. The ADL accuses
numerous religious conservative organizations and leaders of
anti-Semitism and bigotry. In so doing, the ADL itself has com-
mitted defamation. The ADL’s new definition of “intolerance”
apparently is disagreement with its liberal politics.
The ADL
report is filled with fabrications, half-truths, innuendo and
guilt by association that are reminiscent of the political style
practiced by Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s.
Persons of impeccable character and reputation are smeared for
dubious reasons or for no reason at all. This style of politics
is beneath the dignity of any organization that claims to be
dedicated to fighting bigotry.
The response to the ADL report has been dismay from Jews and
Christians alike. “Politically active Christians, the ADL con-
cludes, are-well, ‘extremist,’ ‘bogus,’ ‘conspiratorial,’ ‘fe-
vered,’ ‘phony,’…and yes, ‘fervent.’ Protestant evangelicals
are si
mply de trop, an object of condescension and prejudice,” observed
William Kristol, former chief of staff to Vice President Dan
Quayle. (3)
Columnist Don Feder of the Boston Herald calls the report “an
attempted political assassination.” Feder adds, “Instead of
debating the issues like a gentleman, it stoops to implications
of anti-Semitism to discredit a legitimate voice in the values
deb
ate.” (4)
Beth Gilinsky of the Jewish Action Alliance calls the ADL
report “a plainly partisan smear campaign against traditional
Christians who energetically – and quite legitimately – advocate
what they believe are important moral and social values.” She
conc
ludes that although “Jewish-Christian friendship will survive the
onslaught from the ADL, we are getting rather tired sweeping up
after repeated ADL fiascos.” (5)
This report specifically addresses those portions of the ADL
document concerning the Christian Coalition. First, we will
briefly examine the shoddy nature of the ADL’s pseudo-research,
and the report’s heavy reliance on sources of questionable vera-
city
Second, we will discuss how the Christian Coalition really
operates and discuss our true agenda of pluralistic democracy,
nonpartisanship and inclusion. We also will discuss in detail the
Coalition’s nonpartisan voter guides and organizational structure
and purposes.
The ADL’s Pseudo-Research
The ADL claims its report was the culmination of nine months
of research, but it bears none of the signs of a serious research
report. It is virtually devoid of specific references to resource
materials. (6) The reader is left to simply take it on
faith that the ADL’s most damning charges are true, which they
are not. In fact, much of the ADL’s report is simply a retread of
materials (some over a decade old) from groups like People for
the American Way, Americans United for the Separation of Church
and State, the Institute for First Amendment Studies and other
groups that long have had political axes to grind against reli-
gious conservatives.
Most disturbing, the ADL never contacted the Christian Coalition
to get its response to their unfounded charges, nor did the ADL
try to ascertain the accuracy of many of the quotations used in
their report. This is particularly disturbing considering the
fact that many of the groups and persons attacked have been!
longstanding friends of the Jewish community, the State of
Israel and the ADL.
In 1993, in seeking to settle charges that it had violated the
privacy of certain individuals, the ADL sought to avoid legal
liability by claiming that it enjoyed “journalistic status,”
making it “similar to any newspaper, magazine, or television
stati
on.”
If so, then the ADL has violated even the most basic principles
of ethical journalism.
Had the Christian Coalition or its leadership been contacted
for clarification, many of the errors in the report would have
been corrected. Instead, the report is filled with gross inaccur-
acies of fact. Quotations are listed without attribution, while
others are listed (incredibly) as coming from the “library of
People for the American Way.” A quotation from Pat Robertson on
church-state separation has no source listed at all. (9)
Of 28 quotations attributed to Paul Weyrich, founder of the Wash
ington-based Free Congress Foundation, 22 have no source for the
quote.
Numerous Factual Errors
Basic biographical errors abound. For instance, the ADL report
says that Christian Coalition executive director Ralph Reed, Jr.
once worked as a “campaign staffer for Georgia Rep. Newt Gin-
grich, former Georgia State Sen. Mack Mattingly and Sen. Jesse
Helms of North Carolina.”
Reed never has been employed on the campaign staffs of any of
these individuals. He never was employed by Rep. Newt Gingrich in
any capacity. He worked for Students For America, an independent
organization, during the 1984 Senate race in North Carolina. He
has never been employed by Senator Jesse Helms. He served as an
intern for Mack Mattingly in the U.S. Senate in the summer of
1981. Mattingly was a U.S. Senator, not a state Senator, from
Georgia.
Reed never made the comment attributed to him by the ADL
calling for “a country once again governed by Christians-
‘.”
Indeed, when asked on the NBC Meet the Press program in 1992
whether he believed America was a “Christian nation,” Reed dis-
agreed. “I think the only difference that I would have with it is
– and I should probably preface this by telling you that I began
my political career as the executive director of the first Jewish
national chairman of the College Republicans in the histor
y of the Republican party – I do think that you have to acknow-
ledge the role that Jews have played and will continue to play,
and I think there’s a commonality among Jews and Christians on a
lot of issues because again, ultimately it’s a faith that I thin
k has a lot of common values.”
It is not as though adequate documentation of Dr. Reed’s views
was unavailable to the ADL. As recently as February of this year,
the New York Times news service carried an extensive profile that
noted, “At the same time, the coalition is making overtur
es to minorities and Jewish leaders, hoping to bring some divers-
ity to what has so far been a remarkably homogeneous movement.”
Arthur Kropp of People for the American Way added, “I disagree
with [Reed] wholeheartedly, but I don’t detect a mean spiritedne
ss in him that you detect in other leaders. There’s a political
astuteness, perseverance, and intelligence.”(14)
The ADL also misspells the name of the Coalition’s Director of
Legislative Affairs, Marshall Wittmann. This could not have been
a typographical error, as Wittmann’s name appears incorrectly
spelled throughout the report. Cursory fact-checking should h
ave caught this error. (15)
So poorly researched is the report that views attributed to
columnist Robert Novak are based on a quotation so badly lifted
out of context that its meaning is distorted. In arguing that a
“grim” Paul Weyrich, a Washington pro-family strategist, is some
how tied to anti-Semitic individuals, the report quotes Novak as
saying, “I am supposed to be the Prince of Darkness, but Paul’s
the only person who’s so tough that he gets hate mail from Mother
Theresa.”(16) This statement was made by Mr. Novak at
a roast in Weyrich’s honor held in Washington, DC, on April 1,
1991. Clearly, the remark is offered in jest – but it is lifted
out of its proper context by the ADL to distort the true
meaning.(17)
Reckless Charges of Anti-Semitism
The ADL report repeatedly suggests that leaders and organiza-
tions in the pro-family movement are guilty of anti-Semitism.
Stung by criticism from within the Jewish community, the ADL
is backpedaling, and now denies making the accusation. For exam-
ple, in a response to an earlier Christian Coalition correction
of its many factual errors, the ADL weakly claimed, “the ADL doe
s not call the Christian Coalition or any other religious right
organization anti-Semitic.” (18)
Has the ADL not read its own report? It alleges that “movement
leaders have demonstrated a disturbing insensitivity to Jews and
Jewish concerns” (p. 2), that its agenda expresses “anti-Jewish
and extremist sentiments” (p. 2), that its leaders make “pub
lic anti-Jewish pronouncements” (p. 21), that its rhetoric is
“reminiscent of traditional anti-Semitic thinking” (p. 22), that
its literature is peppered with “anti- Jewish nuggets” (p. 24),
that its leaders have “issued a number of pronouncements antagon
istic toward Jews” (p. 42), that the movement has been “tolerant
of anti-Semitism” (p. 42), that its publications echo “evangeli-
cal anti-Judaism” (p. 43), and that its groups conspire with “the
nation’s leading anti-Semitic propaganda organization” (p. 97
). (19)
Had the ADL simply contacted the Christian Coalition and other
groups defamed by the report, extensive documentation could have
been provided to demonstrate our wholehearted and steadfast
opposition to anti-Semitism and bigotry.
In January 1994, Pat Robertson received the highest honor of
the Christians’ Israel Public Action Campaign at a Jewish-
Christian solidarity rally in Washington, DC. At the awards
ceremony, Robertson stated, “Those of us who are evangelicals say
to thos
e of you who are Jewish, we are your friends. We stand with you
and however easy it is, or however difficult it is, you can count
on us as your friends, your supporters and your compatriots in a
struggle to bring forth the fulfillment of that prophecy, an
d to make this a better world for all of us to live in.”
(20)
Robertson also told the Los Angeles Times in 1993, “I am
convinced on the political scene that the evangelical churches,
the Catholic churches, the Orthodox Jewish people, all of us,
will work together.” Ralph Reed was quoted in the same story as
sayin
g, “We’re working very closely with various conservative and
orthodox rabbis to try to build a friendship and cooperation
across theological lines on family and moral issues.” (21)
Robertson has been a major contributor to the United Jewish
Appeal, has donated large sums to Jewish charities in Jerusalem,
and visited the ADL offices in 1985 to meet with its board of
directors. At that meeting, Robertson held hands with then-execut
ive director Nathan Perlmutter and the entire board of directors
and the group prayed together for an end to anti-Semitism and
intolerance in America. Those present at the meeting report that
many were moved to tears.
In January 1994, Ralph Reed visited Israel on a tour sponsored
by the Jerusalem Post. He met with former Prime Minister Yitzak
Shamir, members of the Knesset, government officials, and the
mayor of Jerusalem. Reed’s trip was undertaken with the assista
nce of Jewish leaders in the United States to underscore the
Christian Coalition’s steadfast support for Israel and Jewish
concerns. (22)
Twisting Words Out of Context
One of the most disturbing aspects of the ADL’s report is its
propensity to lift words out of context so as to distort their
original meaning. It does so with reference to the irresponsible
charge of anti-Semitism.
Citing an editorial in the Christian American newspaper, the
ADL argues that the Christian Coalition believes that “Jews ‘both
killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted
us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men’ (
1 Thessalonians 2:15).” The ADL dismissively acknowledges that
this quotation from the New Testament appeared in an editorial
denouncing anti-Semitism, but refers to it as “typical of evange-
lical anti-Judaism.” (23)
In fact, the editorial (titled “Anti-Semitism in the Church”)
cited the above-mentioned verse from the Bible as an example of
Scripture twisted by anti-Semites in the past to justify their
bigotry. The editorial went on to say that “the place of the Ch
urch is to restore, not to condemn.” The column concludes, “Our
editorial position has been and remains clear, consistent, and
Biblical: we support the State of Israel and we oppose anti-
Semitism.” (24)
In the same issue of Christian American, another statement
condemned bigotry against Jews. “Anti-Semitism is a serious and
dangerous thing to take root and grow. Please do not give aid to
this monster, and allow it to grow any further.” (25)
Reaction from the Jewish Community
Many in the Jewish community have reacted with disbelief to
the ADL’s assault on Christian leaders who have been among their
best friends in the United States. Midge Decter and Elliot Abrams
both have begun efforts to refute the biased report by the AD
L through newspaper advertisements. Former U.S. Senator Rudy
Boschwitz, an honorary vice-chairman of the ADL, has written a
letter distancing himself from the report. “In my 12 Senate
years, I worked with many of the ‘Religious Right.’ They were
very acti
ve in the cause of Soviet Jewry (many Pentecostals and other
Christians couldn’t leave the Soviet Union either). They were
fervent supporters of the State of Israel, and we worked together
often. Among the leadership of conservative Christians I never
exp
erienced even a hint of anti-Semitism. Indeed, it was quite the
opposite-I am honorary vice-chairman of the ADL. I am proud of
that-but in this instance I strongly disagree. From all my exper-
ience I know their report to be i!
ll-founded. Regretably it will do more harm than good.”
(26)
Marshall Breger of the Heritage Foundation has noted that the
report “inferred that the religious right is anti-Semitic, and I
don’t see how you can make that claim on the record.” Marshall
Wittmann, director of legislative affairs at the Christian Coa
lition, says, “This [report] was liberalism and not Judaism
speaking.” He adds, “It’s quite ironic that the ADL, despite all
the various anti-Semites out there, would go after people for
their political views.” (27) Wittmann, who has traveled
exten
sively speaking to Christian Coalition seminars nationwide,
recounts that he has “never encountered a whiff of anti-Semitism”
among its members. (28)
“The greatest friends the State of Israel has in America are
the Christian conservatives,” said Herbert Zweibon, chairman of
Americans for a Safe Israel. “And [the ADL] is telling this
community to get lost?” Zweibon added that the ADL, founded in
1913
to combat anti-Semitism, had “gone off track” and “adopted a
liberal political agenda that has nothing to do with its
mission.” The ADL, he concluded, “does not represent the views of
most American Jews.” (29)
Opposing David Duke
The ADL frequently resorts to the very same kinds of guilt-by-
association lines of argument patented by virulent anti-Semites.
One of the most egregious examples occurs in its allegation that
Pat Robertson and Christian Coalition board member Billy McC
ormack gave aid and support to former klansman and neo-Nazi David
Duke’s Louisiana senatorial bid in 1990 and his gubernatorial bid
in 1991. The allegation is not true.
The report says McCormack helped to table a 1990 censure
motion against Duke in the Louisiana Republican Central Commit-
tee, implying that McCormack supported Duke’s racist views.
(30) This is inaccurate.
Rhett Davis, who served as Congressman Clyde Holloway’s cam-
paign coordinator in the 1991 gubernatorial campaign, says the
following about McCormack’s role:
“Months before Congressman Holloway formally announced his
candidacy (though David Duke had already announced), Mr. Billy
McCormack of Shreveport contacted me on numerous occasions ex-
pressing his strong feeling that we needed to convince Congress-
man Ho
lloway to run because no other candidate was acceptable- .
Mr. McCormack and his friends statewide began a concentrated
effort to help our campaign. Mr. McCormack was very effective,
and ultimately provided the margin of victory for Holloway at the
Republican State Convention.” (31)
Davis also noted that McCormack brought Robertson to Louisiana
to campaign against Duke in October 1991, and Robertson appeared
in Baton Rouge, Lake Charles, and Shreveport at fundraisers for
Holloway. (The trip was paid for by the Holloway for Governo
r campaign and Robertson appeared in his capacity as a private
citizen.)
“Additionally,” Davis continued, “please note that the effort
to kill a move to censure Duke-was actually led by the anti-Duke
forces, fearing such a move would not hurt him, and might indeed
backfire like other, similar moves.” (32) Other pres
s accounts have similarly noted that the resolution was tabled to
“deprive Duke of additional publicity.” (33)
In November 1991, after Clyde Holloway (the favored candidate
of religious conservatives) failed to make the run-off election
for Governor, pro-family activists faced a dilemma. Edwards was
an advocate of legalized gambling, liberalized pornography law
s, and abortion. Duke – though conservative on these issues –
held anti-Semitic and racist views that are anathema to religious
conservatives.
How did religious conservatives react to this dilemma? In the
ADL’s green-spectacled fantasy, “Robertson displayed indifference
to Duke’s racist record, despite the fact that the national
Republican Party-had repudiated and condemned the arch-bigot mor
e than a year earlier.” The ADL report gravely intones that
Robertson “never denounced Duke during Duke’s subsequent Louisi-
ana gubernatorial bid- .” (34) That is an irresponsible
statement for which the ADL should issue a retraction and an
apology
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 07:51:39 PDT 1996
Article: 67605 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: The Mayer Gambit still won’t fly
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <3237077[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<51phue$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<843145262[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:16:36 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]>
li[email protected] “william c anderson” writes:
> Alexander Baron ([email protected]) wrote:
> : In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren”
> writes:
> :
> : > The “revisionists”, that is, Holocaust deniers and Nazi
> : > apologists, are the scum of the Earth, and there’s no wonder
> : > they used Mayer’s writings in a deceptive manner, just
> : > as they misquote and selectively quote another zillion people.
> :
> : You always say the nicest things, Dan. Is it really “anti-Semitism” when
> people
> : repay you in the same coin?
>
> Depends on your coin, Mr. Baron. If you said “People who defend the
> historicity of the Holocaust are the scum of the Earth,” then you’d
> merely be wrong. If you said “Jews are the scum of the Earth,” then
> you’d be an antisemite.
Actually I’ve never said either of those things.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 07:51:40 PDT 1996
Article: 67606 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: All mouth – No substance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84314[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:15:34 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
>
>
> > Stop splitting hairs Chuck, we both know what I meant was that there were
> > no homicidal gassings at Dachau. And we both know that after the war the
> Americans
> > palmed off a delousing chamber on the world as a gas chamber.
>
> Wrong. But you usually are.
Admitted fact, check out Pressac and his apologia.
> > I also pointed out that a pair of lying scheming Zionist Jews (par for the
> course)
> > had, in South Africa in 1976, misrepresented this “evidence” as part of
their> > successful campaign to suppress Revisionism in South Africa.
>
> Lying about Jews again. Par for the course.
No dear fellow, it was the Jews, in particular Suzman and Diamond who lied
through their teeth. Victims of the Dachau “gas chamber” indeed.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 07:51:41 PDT 1996
Article: 67607 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: WW I and US involvement
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <51[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:13:52 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > [email protected] (Derek Bell) writes:
> > [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> > > It has been common knowledge since around 1925 that the
> Zimmerman Note
> > >was a British forgery.
>
> > Please provide evidence for the assertion that the Zimmermann
> telegram
> > is a British forgery.
I’ve heard of the Zinoviev letter, which was a forgery, but what was the
Zimmerman telegram?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 07:51:42 PDT 1996
Article: 67632 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:06:28 GMT
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In article
[email protected] writes:
> In article <843144[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > And when we take over we will march into your synagogues and gun you all
> > down, every single one of you. And you won’t be able to do anything about
> > it because, like the dumb Yids you are, you have voted away the right to
> > bear arms under the constitution.
> >
> > And when we’ve finished the kikes we’ll start on the niggers, then the queers,> > then the…
>
> This from Al Baron, who insists he is not an anti-Semite.
>
> I’d say the definitive proof of his hatred is right here.
You really are one dumb fuck, aren’t you Schwarz? When the right to bear firearms
has been abolished only the state will have guns, and whoever controls the
state can wipe out whoever they want. That includes you wonderful Jews when
the people who control the state have had a gutful of your incessant whining
and wailing. This is actually the thesis of Benjamin Ginsberg’s THE FATAL
EMBRACE: JEWS AND THE STATE, that throughout history Jews have risen to positiosn
of great power in states which have become totalitarian and have then turned
and persecuted them.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 07:51:43 PDT 1996
Article: 67633 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: KREIBERG THE ‘HUMANIST’
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 16:18:09 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Tor Slettnes” writes:
> White trash and economic discrepancies are generally much more lethal
> and corrupting to a society than is any kind of racial or cultural
> adjustments. Further, white trash culture just grows bigger over
> time, while racial or cultural frictions disappear as people adjust to
> their new surroundings.
Attaboy, but don’t forget that it is white goy trash. Otherwise somebody
might accuse you of being anti-Semitic.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 22 09:49:41 PDT 1996
Article: 155552 of control
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in1.uu.net!kikecancel!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Sender: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Approved: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,
soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.jewish,alt.politics.white-power
Date: 21 Sep 96 12:21:12 GMT
Subject: cmsg cancel <[email protected]>
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Control: cancel <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
Lines: 4
These cancels are issued as a service to thInternet providers not wishing
to carry articles from persons of Jewish persuasion. Sites that do not wish
to take advantage of this free service can easily can opt out of these
cancels by “aliasing out” the kikecancel pseudosite.
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:34 PDT 1996
Article: 68265 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: What is a “goyim”
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 14:12:19 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Derek Bell” writes:
> [email protected] (Matt Giwer) writes:
> > That point is that yid-speak has been so used by the eastern european
> ^^^
> For someone who claims not to be an antisemite, you are inordinately
> fond of the word “yid”.
Yid is actually the Yiddish word for Jew. I don’t regard it as derogatory although
I don’t use it myself. I much prefer the word slime. Kike, now that is
derogatory.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 07:37:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68279 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 14:25:12 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “tom moran” writes:
> The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
> “eyewitness” accounts of what they saw.
>
> UFO stories are largely based on “eyewitness” accounts of what
> they saw.
Why aren’t people who question UFOs branded anti-Semitic?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 12:26:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68390 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon’s Question
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <523k[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 18:14:55 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > I know Kramer was innocent.
>
> Sure, Talk to Lyin’ Al. He’ll tell you that he knows Al Capone was
> innocent.
I never said Kramer was innocent. As I’ve said before Edeiken, for a lawyer
you are as thick as pigshit. You yap on and on about “Deniers” being apologists
for Nazism; what we’re heading towards now is worse than Nazism, that was the
point of my “tribute” to Al Capone. You’ve now got a situation in the US where
people can have their assets seized merely on suspicion. Did that happen in
Nazi Germany? The framework of tyranny is already in place, and it’s people like
you who have helped to build it.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Tue Sep 24 15:19:30 PDT 1996
Article: 68398 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Baron Lies About the ADL Again
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84325[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 14:22:55 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> > [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
>
> > “Anti-Semitism” is not a criminal offence in Britain. Yet. Which is just as
> > well as according to the ADL, 20% of the adult population would be in gaol.
> > Re the other allegations, I suggest you come to the trial – which will be a
> > purely civil affair, and the trial of the century.
>
> Lyin’ Al now repeats one of his favorite lies.
>
> He has been asked in the past to substantiate this lie by citing a
> single
> ALD report, statement, letter, or position paper in which it can be found.
>
> He could not.
Like I said, check out the Tulsa World article, check out the analysis by
Laird Wilcox in Crying Wolf, check out the ADL’s own study Anti-Semitism in
America [sic].
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68594 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Hitler suicide? Not necessarily….
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 18:19:50 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
> > [email protected] writes to Gordon McFee::
> >
> > You might be interested in reading (which is why I address this only to
> > you and not to Mr. Blackmore/Belling, who obviously is incapable of doing
> > so)
>
> What am I incapable of, Miss Sara-reading a book?
>
> a book called _The Murder of Adolf Hitler_ by Hugh Thomas.
> Thomas paints a very compelling picture of a Hitler in the bunker who was
> > completely out of control, and was in fact, mrudered by his own men, who
> > wanted to get the hell out of there.
According to the “psychic” Peter Hurkos, Hitler survived the war and was
spotted travelling through Spain. Perhaps he ended up in a convent in South
America?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 07:38:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68642 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Ourobouros’ sample definition of the White race
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:09:30 GMT
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In article <323F20D4.[email protected]> [email protected] “Keith Morrison” writes:
> Ourobouros wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Mongolian Asiatics have coarse and straight hair, unless of course you mean
> > an Asian to be Chinks/gooks,
>
> [snip]
>
> > The body odour is not the same between Europeans and Africans. The famed
> > nigger smell would point to the complete opposite.
>
> You know, you have to love someone who tries to make this impressive
> position with facts and so on and then throws “chinks” “gooks” and
> “niggers” in it.
Actually, body odour was commented on quite candidly by early explorers. The
smell of the full-blooded Negro can sometimes make a white man feel physically
sick. Apparently the Japanese don’t think much of us either; we smell like
corpses to them. Exactly what has commenting on this to do with gas chambers?
Ask the local SWP.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 15:21:58 PDT 1996
Article: 68771 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Denial of Holocaust 1/24/84 Eban, Rabin, Berman, Levy, etc.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 18:24:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “WASPnot” writes:
> Denial of Holocaust 1/24/84 Eban, Rabin, Berman, Levy, etc.
>
> On January 24, 1984 Eban, Rabin, Berman, Levy & 20 others wrote
> requesting that the 20 most important trials of SS Commanders who
> headed the operation of the extermination of the Jews of Europe… in
> order to counter the vicious propaganda of those interested in denying the
> past… – [be published]
>
> What happened? Did the Auschwitz trial get published (in English)?
There’s a book on it by Berndt Naumann, but the trial lasted 20 months
so it’s obviously extremely selective.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 15:21:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68774 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 18:13:18 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> >
> > That’s not what I heard. Can you give me a citation?
>
> And what did _you_ “hear,” Al? Can _you_ give a citation for it?
Rascher was allegedly arrested for publishing an article in a Swiss medical
journal. Check out Payne Best.
Thanks for the above; I’ve read part of Kogon but am tied up at the
moment.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 17:29:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68800 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Baron Lies About the ADL Again
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84340[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 18:17:10 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Reply-To: [email protected]
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> I checked out the Tulsa World. They said that if they carried such a
> story it was a wire feed. There was no such wire feed. Wilcox is not the ADL.
It could be that someone sent me a forged copy of the Tulsa World article, or
it could be that you’re lying. Occam’s Razor says the latter. By the way,
what does the ADL say about anti-Semitism in America, in your humble opinion?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 17:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 68805 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 18:23:22 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
Don’t forget that in 1616 Sylvie de la Plaine testified that the Devil’s
semen is cold.
And that two million Americans believe they have been abducted by aliens.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 17:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 68809 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 14:19:50 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >P.S. Since there is no evidence that these gas chambers ever existed, I
> >wonder how this “secret” correspondence was uncovered, and by whom.
> >Odd that crafty old Himmler never destroyed this conveniently incriminating
> >little piece of evidence. Also odd that the SS executed Rascher…….
>
> Lack of context. Rascher was executed for harboring two children from
> the Dachau camp and claiming them as his own in violation of Nazi
> racial laws.
That’s not what I heard. Can you give me a citation?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Wed Sep 25 19:36:52 PDT 1996
Article: 68836 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: The Nazi menace exposed
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 11:06:58 GMT
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Jewish Chronicle, September 6, 1996, page 24:
4 boys aged 10 to 12 are said to have been responsible for 37,000 pounds damage in
a Manchester cemetery. Police are said to be bringing a prosecution.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 19:17:26 PDT 1996
Article: 69465 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 22:27:00 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> The truth of the matter is that the figure entered into evidence at
> Nuremberg was four million, but four million for all concentration
> camps of all kinds. In addition, this figure was not provided by the
> Soviets, as deniers claim, but by the United States based upon
> documents it had collected:
Morris is full of shit again:
LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by
THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
page ix: “at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were
done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]”.
The figure was also quoted in the press and at the Belsen Trial.
By the way, I’ve seen the Cole video, and whatever the truth about Auschwitz
it is clear from this that visitors to the Museum are or were being deceived.
Cole was shown round the camp by a guide who told him that the gas chamber
was in its original state, when he interviewed Piper he was told it was
a reconstruction. And yes, I have read Jan Sehn’s book.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 19:17:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69467 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Baron Lies About the ADL Again
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <84367[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:09:08 GMT
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In article <[email protected]> [email protected] “Yale F. Edeiken” writes:
> If so, then the wire source was printed with the article? What was it
> Lyin’ Al? You have pulled this line before. Specifically when you were caught > lying about Christine Jeffries you claimed a source which never mentioned the
> incident you reported. The fact that the only publication of a article you can
> cite is
> a newspaper which does not carry original articles on national news is fairly
> indicative of your honesty.
>
> Why don’t you read their reports Lyin’ Al? They are much more
> informative than retellings.
Bore, bore, lie, lie, fucking bore. Mr Stein has a copy of this non-existent
article.
>
> By the way, I take it this is — at long last — an admission that you
> cannot
> point to a statement from the ADL stating that 20% of Americans are
> anti-Semites.
Like I said, the lies of these hatemongers are a matter of public record;
check out Weyl the book they commissioned ANTI-SEMITISM [sic] IN AMERICA.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 19:17:28 PDT 1996
Article: 69503 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: ‘Show Trials’? No, Just Another ‘Revisionist’ Lie
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References:
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:19:43 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> This is excerpted from “The Belsen Trial”, p. 254-6. The
> accused is SS-woman Irma Grese; she is interrogated
> by Colonel Backhouse about her crimes in Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>
> Note how she responds to the questions. Only a “revisionist”
> nut would claim that this exchange could have taken place
> at a “show trial”.
As someone who has read the entire transcript – not just the book – I can
confirm that the defence mustered by the British military lawyers was, up to
a point, vigorous. It is my impression that they, especially Backhouse and
Winwood, did their best for their clients within certain parameters. However,
when one examines the evidence in retrospect, there are some wonderful lacunae.
The testimony of Litwinska and others was a wonder to behold.
One other thing is bothering me Dan. Where is the document Winwood promised
to produce in connection with the gassings? Ie the order Hoess gave to Kramer
not to interfere with them. It didn’t fucking exist, that’s what.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Fri Sep 27 19:17:28 PDT 1996
Article: 69504 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:14:18 GMT
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
>
> # Don’t forget that in 1616 Sylvie de la Plaine testified that
> # the Devil’s semen is cold.
>
> You don’t say. BTW, don’t forget the lunatics who make all
> kinds of claims about “British paratroopers” being “killed
> in their sleep (!!)” in Palestine.
Nice try Dan, the point though is that you do not really believe the
Palestine murders or the King David Hotel did not happen; this is just an
academic exercise for you. Not so the alleged gassings with me.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 02:09:21 PDT 1996
Article: 69568 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:03:01 GMT
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> >
> > Rascher was allegedly arrested for publishing an article in a Swiss medical
> > journal. Check out Payne Best.
>
> Al, that’s not a citation. Care to try again?
>
It’s in his book THE VENLO INCIDENT.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 09:32:19 PDT 1996
Article: 69597 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Why I don’t believe the Holocuast
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 12:33:57 GMT
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In article
[email protected] writes:
> Beth, your post is quite … interesting. I’d like to respond a bit.
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Beth wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Then there is their Talmud !!!! Our son was being braught up Jewish. I
> > wasn’t religious and in love,stupid me, so I let the rabbi teach him. He
> > would come home with so much brainwashing I desided to read what he was
> > learning. MY God, the Jews really DO worship Lucifer.
Well, I always said Keren was a crafty Devil.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 16:04:31 PDT 1996
Article: 69651 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 13:32:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> >LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by
> >THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
> >page ix: “at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were
> >done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]”.
>
> Which series is this? Blue Series? Who made the allegation? In what
> context? With what supporting documents?
This is the Law Report published by United Nations and HMSO.
>
> It is no good taking one sentence out of what looks like the
> introductory pages and trying to pass that off as gospel truth about
> what was said. For all I or anyone else knows this is an editor’s
> mistaken summary of the events which will unfold in the second volume.
It is a summary.
> I’ve got a copy of the Cole video, too. I am not surprised to see that
> you accept the expert historical conclusions of a high school dropout.
>
> Be that as it may, in the interests of strict accuracy, and on the
> basis of more recent research, the Museum should do one of three
> things: restore the gas chamber to the state it was in when the SS
> converted it to a bomb shelter; restore it to the state it was in when
> it was a gas chamber; or admit to visitors that their reconstruction
> is inaccurate.
Or admit to visitors that they’d been shown a “reconstruction”. It
saddens rather than surprises me that an obviously courageous individual
like Cole is consistently pilloried by the same Exterminationists
who denounce “anti-Semites” with gay abandon. For the record I didn’t
finish high school either; perhaps that’s why like him I can see that the
Emperor has nothing on.
> The last alternative seems to me to be at least a good temporary
> measure; I understand that the Museum is strapped for cash even for
> basic maintenance.
Too strapped for cash to print a leaflet explaining that this is a
“reconstruction”. Too strapped to instruct their guides not to tell lies?
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 16:04:32 PDT 1996
Article: 69656 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 13:24:55 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> In article <843690[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by
> > THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
> > page ix: “at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were
> > done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]”.
>
> Al, was the “[in Auschwitz]” part of UN War Crimes Commision’s statement?
> Or did you ad lib that?
That is my quote but if you read the original document it clearly refers to
Auschwitz (meaning Auschwitz-Birkenau of course). Although it’s brief this
is quite an interesting report, for example it contains the outright lie
that prisoners were given no medical attention whatsoever.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 16:04:33 PDT 1996
Article: 69657 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 13:21:37 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> > You could be wrong and you are. Try page 186.
> Oh, goodie! If one were to, ah, _assume_ Al meant _The Venlo Incident_,
> page 186, why, that _would_ be a cite!
>
> Bravo, Al! I just _knew_ you had it in you- somewhere.
>
> Now, Al, what _did_ Payne-Best say on page 186 of _The Venlo Incident_?
Look it up yourself then apologise for accusing me of lying about the
reference to a Swiss medical journal.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sat Sep 28 21:05:51 PDT 1996
Article: 69813 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 13:26:51 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
dmittle[email protected] “Danny Mittleman” writes:
> >Morris is full of shit again:
> >
> >LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by
> >THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
> >page ix: “at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were
> >done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]”.
>
> No, you have it wrong. That actual LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR
> CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES
> COMMISSION VOLUME II said on page ix: “at least 2,500,000 human beings
> (or as some say 4,000,000) were done to death by being poisoned in gas
> chambers [in Auschwitz in Al Baron’s mind]”.
>
> I am sure of this. I paraphrased it directly from the original.
This clearly refers to Auschwitz. On May 9, 1945, Dr Ada Bimko deposed that
by her estimate four million people had been killed thus. Other extravagant
figures include 2 million for Mauthausen and (as late as 1950) one million
for Dachau.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 09:09:22 PDT 1996
Article: 69891 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: ‘Show Trials’? No, Just Another ‘Revisionist’ Lie
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 18:42:52 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> [email protected] (Alexander Baron) writes:
> Thank you for admitting that the “revisionist” claim about
> “show trials” is a lie.
I didn’t say that; a lot of “Revisionists” don’t do their homework, like
those idiot journalists who refer to Belsen’s “gas chambers”. Staeglich
has argued that the Auschwitz Trial was a show trial; I think he has a point.
The point I made about the Belsen Trial – and I now consider myself more
qualified than most – is that the Defence team did their best for their
clients within certain parameters. The question of the gas chambers was
never proved, it was simply asserted. Along with a lot of weird stuff like
the Auschwitz gas chambers were being moved to Belsen!
> # One other thing is bothering me Dan. Where is the document
> # Winwood promised to produce in connection with the gassings?
> # Ie the order Hoess gave to Kramer not to interfere with them.
>
> In what page of the book is this?
It’s not in the book, I don’t think. It’s in the transcripts though.
Drop me an E-mail and I’ll dig out the quote for you.
> Anyway, Winwood was *defending* Kramer, right? You’re saying
> he was willing to go so far so as to lie for his client? That’s
> his problem, not mine.
I’m saying that this is yet another example of a document that never was;
all the important documents never existed!
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 09:09:23 PDT 1996
Article: 69892 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Gary “Gerhard” Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 18:35:55 GMT
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> Giwer wants to kill people who disagree
> with him about historical facts
> —————————————
> Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
> in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from
> his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
> says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to
> kill me himself.
>
> Score one for “revisionist support for freedom of speech”.
> Needless to say, no “revisionist” has denounced Giwer
> for all of this.
I missed this Dan. Hard core Libertarians (including many Jews) believe
that not simply death threats but direct incitements to murder should be
permissible. I certainly don’t go along with the latter. As for death threats,
so much depends on the context. Why don’t you ask him to apologise? I’m sure
he didn’t mean it.
The claim that the attack on the Liberty was an “accident” is not tenable,
in my humble opinion. But of course, only an anti-Semite would say such a thing.,
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 09:09:24 PDT 1996
Article: 69897 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Murder, Uber Alles
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 18:44:24 GMT
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In article [email protected] “Daniel Keren” writes:
> Raven stated, on GEnie, that Hitler was a “great man”, and
> “the best thing that could have happened to Germany”.
So did Lloyd George, and he was no Nazi.
>The
> madman Ernst Zundel claims that the Nazi leadership escaped
> Germany in the end of WW2, using “secret UFO’s”, and fled
> into the inner earth via a hole in the South-Pole.
Zundel is as much a publicist anything else. The fact that you are
ridiculing him is living proof of that.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 09:09:24 PDT 1996
Article: 69970 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 07:32:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article
[email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> In article <843917[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > In article
> > [email protected] “Mark Van Alstine” writes:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> Too bad you didn’t post that part of the document to show the context, eh,
> Al? Pity. Instead, you ask us to take _your_ word on it?
I don’t ask you to take my word on it, go and look it up then do what you
always do when I prove a point, change the subject and accuse me of lying
about something else.
>
> Suuuure, Al….
>
> > Although it’s brief this is quite an interesting report….
>
> Shouldn’t be too hard then to post the relevant parts to show the context
> to support your claims that the commision was talking strictly about
> Auschwitz, right?
>
> > …for example it contains the outright lie that prisoners were given no
> > medical attention whatsoever.
>
> Actually, Al, for all practical purposes, the prisoners _weren’t_ given
> medical attention.
That’s why there were so many fucking doctors in Auschwitz, several of them
have written accounts of the camp. Auschwitz was a prison, prisoners are always
lowest down the scale, there was a war on, there was rationing and hardship
for ordinary people and this was over fifty years ago. When you take all that
into consideration, terrible though the conditions were, the SS acted as humanely
as any bureaucratic monstrosity could. Please don’t keep telling me what a
nasty bunch the Nazis were because I too have suffered at the hands of the
state and I’ve seen countless other people, here, the US and elsewhere
suffering and persecuted by the same token. The greatest irony of the
Exterminationist lobby is that while they are forever attacking the Nazis they
constantly whine for the imposition of more Draconian laws than the Nazis
ever passed, and in some respects they have succeeded.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 11:51:36 PDT 1996
Article: 69975 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 07:13:21 GMT
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> I’ll take your word for it that Rascher told Payne-Best that he had
> been arrested for publishing in a Swiss medical journal. Now what
> sorts of experiments do you think Rascher could have conducted that
> could have got him executed for publishing his results?
>
> Was it the set of experiments where he killed inmates by sealing them
> in a depressurized tank or the ones where he killed inmates by
> immersing them in cold water until they died of hypothermia?
>
> And if you believe that Payne-Best is credible on the issue of
> Rascher’s arrest, why do you not believe Payne-Best to be credible on
> the issue of Rascher’s admission that he executed prisoners with
> poison gas at Dachau?
Actually I believe Payne Best’s account to be probably as reliable as
any former inmate’s if not a great deal more so. Unfortunately, nothing he
says gives the slightest impression that the Nazis were anything but a bunch of
jolly good chaps who played the game of war in a most sporting fashion.
For example: at Gestapo headquarters he was told they could do anything they
liked to him, “anything”.
He was unperturbed and, putting on a stiff upper lip, tells his reader:
“I was quite calm and answered as politely as I could, that of course I had
read a good deal about Gestapo methods but, as in a lifetime experience of
Germans I had never found them more inclined to cruelty than ourselves…”
His captors then went on to say what fine chaps the English were, a bit like the
Germans, who were oppressed by the plutocrats and the Jews that their glorious
Fuehrer had rescued them from.
What Payne Best does say is that Rascher reported that gassings had taken
place and that he gave half a dozen different explanations for his arrest. None of this
detracts from Payne Best’s credibility. This guy spent over five years in
the Nazi camp system and came out of it feeling no ill for the Germans.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Sun Sep 29 11:51:37 PDT 1996
Article: 69976 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 07:26:06 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Matt Giwer” writes:
>
> “In Our Hands”
> by Joseph Sobran
>
> One isn’t supposed to say this, but many people believe that Israel
> now holds the White House, the Senate, and much of the American
> media in its hands. This is what is known as an anti-Semitic
> conspiracy theory.
This is a very good article – I’ve now got the original – it identifies a
major cause if not the major cause of “anti-Semitism”. The problem is not that the
anti-Semites and crazies who believe the Jews control the US, Britain, etc,
the problem is that many Jews believe it, and when they don’t get their
own way or are caught with their hands in the till, they scream “Anti-Semitic”.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 11:57:25 PDT 1996
Article: 70232 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:06:23 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
>
> The book, since Mr. Baron never gives decent citations, is _The Venlo
> Incident_ by Capt. Sigismund Payne-Best.
>
> I read Payne-Best’s remarks on Rascher, which are very brief, and I
> don’t recall that there was any reference to a “Swiss medical
> journal.” I could be wrong, and I can’t check since I don’t have it
> out of the library at the moment. OTOH, Mr. Baron’s reading skills are
> legendary.
You could be wrong and you are. Try page 186.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 15:47:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70336 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 13:14:23 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “John Morris” writes:
> >What Payne Best does say is that Rascher reported that gassings had taken
> >place and that he gave half a dozen different explanations for his arrest.
> None of this
> >detracts from Payne Best’s credibility. […]
Agreed.
>
> So, aside from your impression that Payne-Best thought the Germans
> “jolly good chaps” and that he fared fairly well while imprisoned,
> your basic take is that Payne-Best is a credible source who reports
> Dr. Rascher’s conversation about having gassed people to death at
> Dachau.
> I know from experience that what you wanted to say was that Payne-Best
> is credible in all things except on the issue of gassing, but that is
> not what you said, and you have given no indication as to why
> Payne-Best would not be credible in this one thing.
Payne Best (no hyphen) sounds credible on what he reported. But Conan Doyle
was credible on the Cottingley Fairies; he believed in them sincerely.
> Now let’s put the pieces together.
>
> Dr. Rascher conducted experiments on human subjects at Dachau in which
> the subjects were routinely killed. His correspondence with Himmler’s
> office describing his experiments is voluminous and further documented
> with photographs of his experiments. We know, therefore, that Rascher
> was guilty of murdering his subjects and that those murders were
> sanctioned by his superiors.
>
> Part of that correspondence includes the letter to Himmler’s office
> indicating that Dachau had received the same equipment as was
> available at the Hartheim euthanasia centre and a suggestion that
> combat gasses be tested on human subjects. Whatever the response of
> Himmler’s office to this request, the response was plainly not to
> dismiss Rascher from his position nor to arrest and condemn him.
>
> Finally, we have a report from a source, which we agree is credible,
> where Rascher is reported to have discussed killing people with poison
> gas at Dachau.
>
> I can see why the Institute for Contemporary History revised its
> opinion and now concludes that poison gas was used at Dachau, but I
> would be interested in hearing your conclusion.
As I understand it there was talk of a “mobile chamber”. I will be looking into
this in some depth, eventually. I certainly believe poison gas experiments were
done but these don’t have to be done in chambers; the British and Americans
have also done them. All this is beside the point though because it stays
clearly in the Nuremberg documents (volume XXX off the top of my head) that
people were gassed to death routinely, ie exterminated. There are documents
produced by the US Army and others describing alleged gassings. These documents
were made up out of the whole cloth in exactly the same way that Blaha’s nonsense
about handbags made of skin was.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 18:09:46 PDT 1996
Article: 70368 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: Notice to revisionist: Please read.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 13:28:21 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Beth Dailey” writes:
> AS a woman married to a Jew for almost 6 years and having lived in
> Israel for most of it, I wish to tell you your fight is JUST ! What the
> Jews do behind closed doors is filth and evil.
Sure, they fuck crazy shikses, for one thing.
> Remember that the Jews really don’t believe the holocauset hoax any more
You’re quite right, Dan Keren said that to me only the other night. Al, he
said, I don’t really believe all this shit. Have another bagel and I’ll tell
you all about it.
I can’t quite make out if Beth is a) deranged; b) a comedienne; c) an ADL
stooge or d) a way out version of the late Ben Klassen. Suggestions on a
postcard to [email protected]
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
From [email protected] Mon Sep 30 18:09:48 PDT 1996
Article: 70394 of alt.revisionism
From: [email protected] (Alexander Baron)
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 13:21:42 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] “Gord McFee” writes:
> Get off the pot, Al. The “so many fucking doctors” were there to assist in
> the experiments that Mengele liked to carry out, and the German doctors were
> there to make the ramp selection that determined whether people lived (for a
> short time ) or died immediately.
>
> Since you seem to possess all the information on this, care to post a list of
> the zillions of doctors at Auschwitz?
Ella Lingens-Reiner
Alexander Dering
Gisella Perl
Olga Lengyel (nurse)
Hermann Langbein (male murse)
All the above – except Dering – wrote books about the camp.
There was also Dr Ada – 4 million were gassed Bimko
and Charles – 17 tonnes of gold teeth – Bendel
That’s only to start with.
There were also SS doctors; one such doctor gave evidence at the Belsen Trial, and he was still
working there at the time of the trial.
—
“He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers.” – Charles Peguy
The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)
Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/baron.al/1996/baron.0996
From [email protected] Tue Sep 3 20:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 62000 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: British charm in action
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 96 17:35:00 GMT
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