Alpert Annie

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In <4uu7tc$fk8@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) writes:
>
>In article <4utm41$2b2@news.iglobal.net>, patchwgl@infinop.com (Gary)
wrote:
>
>>Ask Greg Raven about Pooh.Bah & Termy, mamzer und schnorror.
>
>BTW, Gary, you will be pleased to know that poohbah.nizkor.org
>will join the net this year…. She’s loaded for bear, wearing
>a FATBROAD T-shirt, and memorizin
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/weber.mark/webers.feet
>right now.. when she’s done, she’ll begin analyzing
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/american/oregon/banished.cpu/marti
exposed >… then she should be ready to devote more time to Mr.
Raven.>(We trust he will appreciate her attention.)
>
>We would like Mr. Raven to remember Pooh.bah… it is the very
>least we could do, don’t you think?
>
I had a conversation with Raven about this recently. For the edification
of all, I’m posting the note I wrote to Greg summarizing the incident:

BEGIN REPOST FORM ANNIE ALPERT TO GREG RAVEN:

>On GEnie, I was the one who whipped Pooh Bah’s butt, to use
>your colorful language. She finally had to resort to using
>fake documents, such as the Franke-Gricksch “report,” and
>when painted into a corner on this matter, claimed to have
>seen the original! We all know, of course, that there is no
>original.

I’m sure you remember the events in the kindest possible
light, Greg–but I was there and I saw what happened. She
out-posted you, despite your reservations about the F-G
Report. I also have the discussion on disk and can happily
refresh your memory on what went on. At the time, you even
conceded that the general consensus was that you were
whipped:

Message 289 Fri Mar 27, 1992
G.RAVEN [Greg Raven] (Forwarded)
To Graffiti (regarding 790) —
…If Pooh.bah is indeed demolishing my
arguments, as seems to be the consensus, why is there so
much behind-the-scenes activity extant?


Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 16:02:43 PDT 1996
Article: 57865 of alt.revisionism
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Pooh.Bah vrs Greg Raven’s Butt WAS Re: Mamzer Giwer
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From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 16:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 57916 of alt.revisionism
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Drunk again WAS Re: to the anti-gassing lurkers
Date: 15 Aug 1996 17:43:54 GMT
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In <4uusoe$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
Giwer
> There are many of is.

Giwer, PLEASE do your postings BEFORE you hit the bottle. Your
drinking problem is your own business, but don’t share it with the rest
of us . .


Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 16:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 58042 of alt.revisionism
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Bring on the third world! was Re: Jews Run Everything
Date: 17 Aug 1996 18:01:55 GMT
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In <4v2rdp$q9u@newsbf02.news.aol.com> kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
writes:
>
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>
>>In article <4v07f7$3ue@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com
(Kurt>>Stele) wrote:>>> Just look at the way the jew hollohuggers on
this newgroup defend third>>> world immigrants. They think we should
let every third world biped and>>> their fourth cousin into America,
which is pretty much what is>happening.
>>>
>>>Kurt:>> >>Please provide *any* credible evidence for the above
statement.>>
snip a bunch of illogical baloney

Kurt, your argument is specious at best. Since ‘most’ Jews on AR
beleive in racial equality, therefore ALL anti-Holocaust deniers
beleive in unfettered third world immigration? Give me a break!

That’s like saying since many five-year-olds like apple juice, all
children like oranges because oranges are fruit.


Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 16:02:45 PDT 1996
Article: 58053 of alt.revisionism
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 16 Aug 1996 21:13:15 GMT
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In <840133259snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Alexander Baron
writes:
>
>The Rockefellers were actually of Jewish origin. According to my
sources the >Fed is owned by eight banks, seven of which have Jewish
names. That is the >operative word, names. The Rothschilds are actually
Gentiles, having married out>long ago.

Alexander, you’re not American, so perhaps you can be excused for your
ignorance of the American banking system — but the Federal Reserve is
owned by all the regional banks that are members of the Federal
Reserve. This means that ultimately the stockholders of each bank are
the ‘owners’ of the Federal Reserve.

Got it?

Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 17:54:21 PDT 1996
Article: 39847 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 16 Aug 1996 21:13:15 GMT
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In <840133259snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Alexander Baron
writes:
>
>The Rockefellers were actually of Jewish origin. According to my
sources the >Fed is owned by eight banks, seven of which have Jewish
names. That is the >operative word, names. The Rothschilds are actually
Gentiles, having married out>long ago.

Alexander, you’re not American, so perhaps you can be excused for your
ignorance of the American banking system — but the Federal Reserve is
owned by all the regional banks that are members of the Federal
Reserve. This means that ultimately the stockholders of each bank are
the ‘owners’ of the Federal Reserve.

Got it?

Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 19 17:59:41 PDT 1996
Article: 78899 of alt.conspiracy
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 16 Aug 1996 21:13:15 GMT
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In <840133259snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Alexander Baron
writes:
>
>The Rockefellers were actually of Jewish origin. According to my
sources the >Fed is owned by eight banks, seven of which have Jewish
names. That is the >operative word, names. The Rothschilds are actually
Gentiles, having married out>long ago.

Alexander, you’re not American, so perhaps you can be excused for your
ignorance of the American banking system — but the Federal Reserve is
owned by all the regional banks that are members of the Federal
Reserve. This means that ultimately the stockholders of each bank are
the ‘owners’ of the Federal Reserve.

Got it?

Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From anny@ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:06 PDT 1996
Article: 58845 of alt.revisionism
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From: anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Four million in the Black Book. Citation please.
Date: 16 Aug 1996 21:08:40 GMT
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In <4v19qm$3vo@juliana.sprynet.com> rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>
>I also have a Black Book: 1943 edition, Roy Publishers, New York.
>
1943?? What book are you talking about? The war wasn’t over until 1945
and the Black Book we are discussing is published by the Jewish Black
Book Committee. It is a first edition. Nothing you quoted was on the
pages you listed.

Annie Alpert
The Nizkor Project:
Fighting hate and anti-Semitism on the Internet
* * * On the web * * *
WWW.Nizkor.org

From miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Nov 13 06:28:36 PST 1996
Article: 79283 of alt.revisionism
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206.20.179.42
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: David Irving blaming the Holocaust on Jews: page numbers for Ehrlich
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:49:09 -0500
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Zenoink wrote:
> I would like very much to clarify for myself how Irving gained a reputation>
of anti-semitism (through his work or his own political actions).
>
> Thank you for any further help along these lines.
>
Kay, While the phrase ‘anti-Semitism’ is interpreted differently by
different people, I believe David Irving has met the minimum definition
of that phrase by his escalating obsession and dislike for the
collective group “Jews”. Of course, he, himself, disputes this. I
don’t find that surprising since I’ve never heard a definition of
‘anti-Semite” that included the person constructing the definition.
I’ve heard Mr. Irving speak and read his writings and one theme is
constant–Jews. He jokes about them, calls them “The Traditional
Enemy,” and blames them for many
of his personal troubles.

Normally, I say–Fine. Go for it, David. You are entitled to feel
however you like. But when a writer sets himself up as the arbiter of
truth and makes unfounded accusations under the guise of “history,” I
get my hackles up. He is a self-appointed historian. He should be more
objective.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Nov 13 06:28:37 PST 1996
Article: 79316 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:19:20 -0500
Organization: Freelance Soccer Mom
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To: Jean-Francois Beaulieu

Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
>
> One funny argument to proove the extermination charge for Treblinka is
> Suchomel’s testimony. It is claim that Suchomel was (falsely) promised
> anonymity in exchange for this interview. In the interview ‘Suchomel’ ask
> himself to not mention his name. I’ve see most of the movie and it is
> strange that only in Suchomel’ interview we have a bluerred picture were
> the face of the man is not easilly recognizable. I suppose that the claim
> is that Suchomel was filmed without being aware of it and this can explain
> the poor quality of the image.

“The claim is”? What claim? By whom? J-F, don’t let’s be silly about
this. No one claimed that Mr. Suchomel was not aware he was being
filmed. You’re making things up! I realize English is not your first
language, but even YOu can easily check to see if Mr. Suchomel recanted
at any time after the film came out. He didn’t.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Nov 13 06:52:51 PST 1996
Article: 79376 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust redefined WAS Re: Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:40:03 -0500
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To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com

Greg Raven wrote:
>
> Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> > You say (1) “6 million … is an irresponsible exaggeration,” (2) “no
> > Nazi plan,” and (3) “no Nazi gas chambers.” You’re being quite
> > consistent, since you explained your views in almost exactly the same
> > words on your first big entrance to the Internet, on Hitler’s birthday,
> > 1994.
>
> It never fails to amaze me to learn how closely people of your sexual
> preference keep track of Hitler’s birthday. I have no record of my first
> day on the Internet, and I couldn’t care less about Hitler’s birthday.
>
Well! That’s novel, even for YOU, Greg! What do ou know about Jamie’s
‘sexual preference’ and what does that have to do with his noticing that
you happened to begin posting on Hitler’s birthday (if indeed you did,
which I have not verified)? I await you answer with bated breath . . .

> > The problem, Mr. Raven, is that you also define the term Holocaust as
> > (1) “the murder of six million Jews,” (2) “as a central act of state by
> > the Nazis,” (3) “many in gas chambers.”
> > (snip)
>
> I do? If you were paying as much attention to what I actually say and
> write on this subject as you do to Hitler’s birthday, you would have
> long ago discovered that this is NOT my definition of “the Holocaust.” I
> direct your attention to the following URL:
>
> http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/misc/definition.html

I read your essay, but found it strangely unsatisfying. The bulk of the
writing consisted of a collection of ‘definitions’ of the term
“Holocaust”–not particulalry enlightening. You then wrote:

BEGIN
Finally, the door must be left open to consider the role of Jewish and
Zionist leaders. Whether or not they were well-intentioned, actions by
the Judenrat, Jewish kapos, and pro-Nazi Zionists that resulted in
Jewish deaths must be studied and criticized, just as actions by these
groups and others are praised when they resulted in the saving of Jewish
lives.
END

The essential offensiveness of your ‘blame the Jews” message is lost on
you, I fear, so I won’t dwell on it here–Suffice it to say, if the
Third Reich had not attacked, Jews would not have had to respond.

BEGIN
Left undefined, but to be determined by examining the facts within the
framework above, is the “why” of the Holocaust.

A proposed definition

According to the OED, revision is, “The action of revising or looking
over again; esp. critical or careful examination or perusal with a view
to correcting or improving.” Revisionism is defined as, “A term used for
a revised attitude to some previously accepted political situation,
doctrine, or point of view.” A revisionist, then, would be someone who
approaches the Holocaust by looking at the facts, putting them in
context, and arriving at the “why.” An anti-revisionist would be someone
who has fixed ideas about why the Holocaust happened, and then finds
facts to support that conclusion, usually at the expense of context.

Taking into account everything above, I would propose that the term
“Holocaust” be defined as: “The mistreatment of Jewish civilians,
primarily in Europe, at the hands of the combatants during the Second
World War (1939-1945).”
END

Your ‘definition’ is so incomplete as to be incomprehensible, Greg.
Mistreatment? Primarily in Europe? Combatants? Not even a nice try,
Greg. Your long, verbose essay leads up to THIS? Honestly! What a
waste.

Instead of ‘mistreatment’ try: the murder of millions of innocent men,
woman and children who were–or were thought to be–Jewish or members of
other ‘unacceptable’ ethnic, social and political groups.”

Instead of “primarily in Europe” try: “Europe and Western Asia”.

Instead of “combatants” try: “Nazi Third Reich military forces,
collaborators and civilians.”

Which leaves us with:
“The murder of millions of innocent men, woman and children who were–or
were thought to be–Jewish or members of other ‘unacceptable’ ethnic,
social and political groups primarily in Europe and Western Asia at the
hands of the Nazi Third Reich military forces, collaborators and
civilians during the Second World War (1939-1945).”

> —
Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From miasaura@ccnis.net Fri Nov 15 06:32:58 PST 1996
Article: 79493 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:21:08 -0500
Organization: Freelance Soccer Mom
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Jamie McCarthy wrote:
>> # From: jfbe@vir.com (Jean-Francois Beaulieu)

> # Recently I posted something on Suchomel and there was a couple of
> # arguments develloped in alt.revisionism.> #
One of the argument is that more than one camera may have been involved.>
# Another one is that the picture could have been taken from outside, through> #
a window. Another one, Annie Halpert, said that Suchomel asked to not reveal
> # his name but accepted to be filmed. Obviously the latest one is a
> # non-sense.
>
> Again, I don’t think any comment is necessary (except to point out that
> Annie Alpert’s argument has been quite distorted).

No kidding! I said nothing of the sort. J-F, I realize your English is
limited, but this time you went too far.
> —
Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Nov 19 06:46:40 PST 1996
Article: 79964 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Blaming The Holocaust On David Irving
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:40:56 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <328E6D28.57DD@ccnis.net>
References: <566eqg$1mm@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
<130802_miasaura@ccnis.net_alt.revisionism> <130802_varange@crl.com_alt.revisionism>
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To: Troy Varange

Troy Varange wrote:
>
> Annie Alpert writing [ 2074] bytes in <32888E65.5A24@ccnis.net>
from nexp.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!
news.idt.net!nntp-hub.idt.net!
nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.42 on alt.revisionism said:
>
> > Kay, While the phrase ‘anti-Semitism’ is interpreted differently by
> > different people, I believe David Irving has met the minimum definition
> > of that phrase by his escalating obsession and dislike for the
> > collective group “Jews”. Of course, he, himself, disputes this. I
> > don’t find that surprising since I’ve never heard a definition of
> > ‘anti-Semite” that included the person constructing the definition.
>
> #1) Antisemitism can be defined as intentionally feeling
> desires that potentionally may reduce the power of the Jewish
> collective leadership;

Can be? Well, if you want to play THAT game, “anti-Semitism” “can be”
defined as “a sweet baked good made of flour, butter and sugar.” Can be
so defined, but not accurately. There is a perfectly good definition for
the word–one coined, by the way, by a self-described hater of Hebrews
(well, that’s what they called Jews in England in the 1880’s when the
word was defined.) Not liking Jewish people–for whatever reason (even
believing that they are trying to take over the world) is
anti-Semitism. It’s not even a judgemental term. It just means what it
means.

>
> #2) and when unintentional, failing to make amends for it.

Why do you feel amends have to be made if you stand behind you position?

>
> It has not yet been proven that Irving is an antisemite;
> after all, he could be an agent of Jewish businessmen.

He is totally obsessed with Jews. He thinks they are out to get him.
The ‘agent of Jewish businessmen” theory is totally specious. Irving
would get a good laugh out of that, I’m sure!


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Thu Nov 28 07:03:05 PST 1996
Article: 82378 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ** DISHONESTY OF WILLIS CARTO **
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:56:52 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <329C56B4.4529@ccnis.net>
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To: alexrjones@aol.com

alexrjones@aol.com wrote:
>
> Liberty Lobby founder Willis Carto has been hit with a
> multi-million dollar judgment for illegally diverting $7.5
> million from a California non-profit group.

Alex–you really should correct this mailing you’ve been sending out to
many, many newsgroups to indicate that the ‘non-profit’ group is the
Institute for Historical Review–an organization Carto started for the
purpose of spreading his Holocaust denial clap-trap. Also, it’s
interesting that the IHR is now in the hands of Grag Raven and Bradley
Smith who are both Scientologists (taken over by gunpoint in a bloodless
coup, yet!)

I’m curious–what is your connecion with the IHR? Why is the Church of
Scientology interested in Willis Carto? What is the connection between
the COS and Holocaust denial?

snip
>
> FOR COPIES OF THE JUDGE MAINO’S NOVEMBER 13TH LETTER ON THE
> TRIAL AND HIS SUBSEQUENT NOVEMBER 14TH DECISION, SEND ME AN
> E-MAIL (alexrjones@aol.com) WITH YOUR FAX NUMBER OR ADDRESS.
>
Can you post it?


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sat Nov 30 11:29:00 PST 1996
Article: 82752 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.religion.scientology,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hausherr new potential ally of scientology!
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:44:47 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Troy Varange wrote:
>
> Tilman Hausherr writing [ 1280] bytes in <32b2f61e.96678045@news.theta.de>
from nexp.crl.com!usenet73.supernews.com!usenet65.supernews.com!news.he.net!
news.nacamar.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.coli.uni-sb.de!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!
not-for-mail said:
>
> > Ernst Zuendel, the canadian holocaust revisionist, dreams of an alliance
> > of scientology and extremists against the german state.
>
What is the sudden love-affair between Holocaust revisionists and the
Church of Scientology? First it’s Raven and Weber, now it’s Ernst
Zundel. Who’s next? John Travlota? Tom Cruise? I don’t get it.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sat Nov 30 11:29:01 PST 1996
Article: 82848 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Last Call to Nizkooks: Quit Spamming and Leave
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 11:54:46 -0500
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william c anderson wrote:
>
> Kurt Stele (kurtstel@micron.net) wrote:
>
> : This is a last call. You’re not welcome here.
>
> Go play in traffic, Brian. Nobody cares whether you welcome them
> here. That you’re afraid to face the arguments of those who disagree
> with you is a comment on the paucity of your own arguments, but it
> isn’t otherwise significant.
>
> We’re not going anywhere, nazi-boy. Stick it.
>
> Bill

Aww, Brian’s just miffed because the participants of
misc.activisim.militia voted to ban him and his National Alliance
cronies from their moderated newsgroup. The NA was trying to use it as
a recruiting tool but the militia folks weren’t interested in the
anti-Semitic and racist rantings of the NA. They’re much too nice for
that kind of stuff.

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sun Dec 1 16:07:01 PST 1996
Article: 83080 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Good Old Days,1.
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 12:07:54 -0500
Organization: IDT
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rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>
> I have seen many references to the book “The Good Old
> Days” recently by staunch Nizkor devotees. Since I happen
> to have this book in my library of comic books, I thought I would begin
> an analysis of the contents therein. Let’s begin with chapter one:
>
> We have a letter from Eastern Territory Commander Johannes
> Blaskowitz, in which he writes a communication dated February 6, 1940.

I have that excellent book, too. It’s pretty silly to try to use it as
a Nazi apologia document, when the book clearly details the observations
of eye-witnesses and perpetrators.

First of all, the document on pp 4-5 is not a letter from Eastern
Territories Commander J. Blaskowitz. It is a collection of his notes in
the form of a diary–and is clearly stated as such in the bibliography.
>
> He details the fact that a rebel and sabotage organization has sprung up
> and that the Security Police are investigating. He accuses the Police of
> killing 10,000 Jews. His comments clearly show that he is outraged at
> what he perceives to be a great crime. The content of his letter makes it
> clear, however, that the culprits he considers responsible are a clique of
> irresponsible men, and he advises their immediate arrest.

Note he also comments that this is a bad thing because it will wake up
the rest of the world to what’s going on in the Eastern Territories AND
because it is making the formerly rabidly anti-Semitic Poles feel pity
for the Jews.
>
> The unfortunate thing about this letter is that no reply is given from the
> military authorities. Without any confirmation of either receipt of the
> letter or substantiation of the grave allegations, this document must be
> considered worthless.

There can be no reply since it was not a letter. It was a dairy entry.
Duh. That means he did not write it for any gratutious purposes–merely
to record for himself what he saw.

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
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Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
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And be sure to check out:
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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sun Dec 1 16:07:02 PST 1996
Article: 83082 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days,2. Who killed the cop?
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 12:15:01 -0500
Organization: IDT
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rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>
> Here is something from chapter two entitled: “Bloody
> Wednesday in Olkusz/Ilkenau”.
>
> The excerpt begins by inform us that a capital crime had
> occurred on 16 July 1940. A German policeman named
> Ernest Kaddatz was bushwhacked and murdered by assailants
> unknown. The German authorities believed the assailants were
> hiding out in the town of Olkusz.

Blackie, are you making this up as you go along? The book says nothing
of the sort. It captions a photo pp5: “Market square of the Polish
border town of Olkusz, called Ilkenau by the occupation forces. In 1940
some 7,000 Poles and 6,000 Jews were living there. On 16 July 1940 the
German Gendarme Ernest Kaddatz was shot by an unknown assailant. In
reprisal twenty Jews were publically executed.”

No bushwacking. Only one assailant. The rest of the chapter consists
of photgraphs of the execution process with a description of the
torturing of the unfortunate survivors.
>
> On 31 July the town was surrounded by police units. A Jew was
> or Jews were suspected of the murder. Thus, the Jewish inhabitants
> of the town were compelled toassemble in the village square and lie
> face down on the ground for a number of hours while the town and their
> persons were searched. It is alleged that the Jews were beaten with rifle
> butts, but no evidence is offered to sustain that charge.

> A Jew named Tadeusz Lupa is shot while attempting to flee. This must
> have made him appear guilty in the eyes of the investigating authorities.

Well, the fact that he was being tortured at the time might have had
SOMETHING to do with his desire to fles the site of the carnage, don’t
you think?

> The authors of the book tekk us that Tadeusz could not stand the “torture”
> of lying face down on the ground so he fled.
>
> Finally, we are told that the towns population was sent to Auschwitz in 1942,
> with no additional comment. The obvious inference which the authors of the
> book wish to be drawn is that the Jews were murdered there. Yet, they offer
> no proof whatsoever.

Dead bodies are not a sign of mistreatment? HA!

> Photographs are reproduced showing the jews of the town being searched
> and lying on the ground. There is no sign of mistreatment.
>
> Conclusion: The killer was probab;y Tadeusz.


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Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
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And be sure to check out:
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From miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 3 06:48:52 PST 1996
Article: 83419 of alt.revisionism
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 10:11:11 -0600
From: miasaura@ccnis.net
Subject: Re: Good Old Days 3….The Diary
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Message-ID: <849456099.28834@dejanews.com>
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
References: <57o64c$hc@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <57o64c$hc@juliana.sprynet.com>,
rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>
> Chapter 3 is interesting in that it purports to show
> photographic copies of a diary allegedly kept by
> a German officer in a motorcycle battalion. The first
> part of the diary is harmless enough, with tales of
> marching out to the strains of “Muss i denn, muss i denn,,,,
>
> Yet in the second half of the diary, when the soldier is
> supposed to be in Russia and a witness to horrible massacres,
> an odd thing occurs:
>
> The first part of the diary is written in a completely different
> script and handwriting than the second half, where all the
> alleged atrocitites are detailed.
>
> Conclusion: The second half of the diary is a phoney, or
> else written by an entirely different person. In any event, the
> details alleged in the second half of the diary are unsubstantiated.

Blackie–I took a look at this ‘diary’ and I’m appalled that
you blew this research project of your so badly! The diary is not
the document of a PERSON, it’s the diary of a CYCLE BATTALION.
DO you know what a BATTALION is? Of course different hands
recorded the entries. It’s the documentatio of an entire army of
soldiers.

Once again–DUH.

——————-==== Posted via Deja News ====———————–
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 3 06:48:54 PST 1996
Article: 83490 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier tactics: Quoting out of context;
the case of Kurt Stele’s .sig
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 09:48:37 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <32A43DC5.7904@ccnis.net>
References: <32a0436f.357177@199.0.216.204> <57rf03$1geb@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
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Marty Kelley wrote:
>
> For some time, “Kurt Stele” has been using the following quote as his
> .signature file:
> >
> > “[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of “Holocaust survivors”] are full
> > of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> > overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> > lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies.”
> >
> > Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> > York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.
>
> Unlike many Holocaust deniers, Mr. “Stele” does in fact quote the words
> fairly accurately, even including a detailed, accurate citation. That is,
> in fact, what allowed me to find the Gringauz article itself (which I
> doubt Mr. “Stele” has read himself–where did you read this, Mr.
> “Stele”?).
>
analysis snipped for brevity

Nice job, Marty! You are proving the point that all one has to do is
examine the claims of those who would deny the Holocaust to uncover the
fatal flaws. You did it masterfully!


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 3 09:49:28 PST 1996
Article: 91306 of soc.culture.german
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.religion.scientology,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hausherr new potential ally of scientology!
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:44:47 -0500
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Troy Varange wrote:
>
> Tilman Hausherr writing [ 1280] bytes in <32b2f61e.96678045@news.theta.de>
from nexp.crl.com!usenet73.supernews.com!usenet65.supernews.com!news.he.net!
news.nacamar.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.coli.uni-sb.de!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!
not-for-mail said:
>
> > Ernst Zuendel, the canadian holocaust revisionist, dreams of an alliance
> > of scientology and extremists against the german state.
>
What is the sudden love-affair between Holocaust revisionists and the
Church of Scientology? First it’s Raven and Weber, now it’s Ernst
Zundel. Who’s next? John Travlota? Tom Cruise? I don’t get it.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
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And be sure to check out:
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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Thu Dec 5 05:46:32 PST 1996
Article: 83817 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JW revisionism
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 09:40:23 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Craig D wrote:
>
> Does the Watchtower practice revisionism???
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~defender

What are you talking about? Just trolling?

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Thu Dec 5 11:50:40 PST 1996
Article: 83922 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Ms. Alpert-“A Shooting at Ilkenau”
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 09:52:47 -0500
Organization: IDT
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rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>
> In response to your comment on the shooting of
> Tadeusz Lupa at Ilkenau from “The Good Old Days”
>
> I was just wondering whether you ever stopped to
> consider that Tadeusz Lupa ran because he committed
> the crime? No one else made any attempt to flee-perhaps
> because they were simply innocent.

_I_ was just owndering if _you_ ever stopped to consider that Tad Lupa
ran even though he didn’t commit any crime (except the crime of being
Jewish)? Based on the sketchy description in the excerpt, you can
hardly draw any conclusions.

BTW, what is your opinion of an invading army coming into a village that
is 50% Jewisha nd 50% Christian? What is your opinion of that army
rataliating on an attack of one of their members by persons unknown by
dragging the Jewish residents of the town out in the street and
murdering some of them and sending the rest of them to a slave and
extermination camp?

Is that ok with you?

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Fri Dec 6 17:44:31 PST 1996
Article: 84163 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days 3….The Diary
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 09:27:31 -0500
Organization: IDT
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tutu101@aol.com wrote:
>
> Are you implying that the Diary was written by the whole battalion? Or
> was it the officer in charge? Is any name or names listed? That might
> help to clear things up a bit.

Tell you what–why don’t you look at the book in question before you ask
ignorant questions. It would save us all a lot of time.

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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sat Dec 7 14:21:05 PST 1996
Article: 84319 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days 3….The Diary
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 10:57:41 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 15
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To: tutu101@aol.com

tutu101@aol.com wrote:
>
> I think the advice was being directed to you, Miss Alpert.

Look, Tutu–you need to know how to post before you try to join a
conversation. How am I supposed to know what ‘advice’ you are referring
to if you don’t quote the original note?

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Dec 11 06:34:58 PST 1996
Article: 85016 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nazi math? WAS Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:11:53 -0500
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Tbone wrote:
>
> I was taught in school that 6 million jews were murdered by the Nazi’s in
> the “holocaust”. That has been the party line since WWII. We’ve heard it
> constantly, and it’s illegal to question it in Canada, Germany, Israel,
> France, and a few other countries. (Just ask Irving, Zundel, Leuchter,
> etc.)
>
> But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
> said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
> prayed over, commemorating the 4 million jews, etc…) The Auschwitz State
> Museum (whatever its official name is) has OFFICIALLY LOWERED the Auschwitz
> death toll to “around 1.5 million”, a reduction of approx. 2.5 million.
> Some Soviet papers documented only 72,000 jewish deaths there…
>
> So, what is the official jewish count? Still 6 million, of course!!! How
> can the former total of 6 million lose 2.5 million, and still be 6 million?
> Maybe that’s a special kind of math only taught to jews, I don’t know. To
> white people, that equals a max of 3.5 million, which the jews can’t allow
> because it would screw up their entire holy-hoax scam.
>
> Remember, the Katyn Massacre? 13,000+ Polish officers murdered. We were
> told for 45 years that the Germans did it. Then the Soviets said, “Nope, we
> did it.” With that it mind, isn’t it reasonable to assume that perhaps the
> jew count is suspect, at best, and deliberately fraudulent at worst?
>
> Hail the Order!

Since you obviously haven’t found the time to do much research on the
subject–being so busy hailing the order and all–here is some
information that may help you understand the death counts:

To begin with, Adolf Eichmann, the SS officer charged by Hitler with the
destruction of millions of Jews, reported to Himmler in August 1944
that, although the death camps kept no exact statistics, 4 million Jews
had died in them and that 2 million more had been shot or killed by
mobile units (Einsatzkommandos).

Now, let’s add this up…4 million + 2 million = 6 million.

Coincidence? Historians determined that the number of Jews killed is
very close the number that the Germans themselves estimated. For a good
accounting of the numbers killed, refer to appendix III of Raul
Hilberg’s “The Destruction of the European Jews” (available through
most public and University library systems). NOTE: these figures by
Hilberg were derived through painstaking research–not by reading a
plaque.

STATISTICAL RECAPITULATION OF JEWISH DEAD
(by operation)

Area of mobile killing operations: 1,400,000
tabulated dead (900,000)
untabulated dead (500,000)=
unreported by Einsatzgruppen (150,000?)
Higher SS and police leaders and BdS GG (100,000)
Army killings, PW killings and operations
by anti-partisan units (100,000)
Ghetto dead (100,000)
death of fleeing Jews (50,000?)
Area of deportations: 3,700,000
Killed in camps (including Transnistria) (3,000,000)
ghetto and aggravated deaths (700,000)
TOTAL >5,100,000

(Recent developments in the former USSR have uncovered more data,
which, I have heard, indicates that these figures are
under-calculated by 250,000-500,000.)

Here is another look at the numbers:

Appendix Table B2 from Raul Hilberg’s “Destruction of
European Jewry” Vol III, p1220:

DEATHS BY COUNTRY

Poland up to 3,000,000
USSR over 700,000
Romania 270,000
Czechoslovakia 260,000
Hungary over 180,000
Lithuania up to 130,000
Germany over 120,000
Netherlands over 100,000
France 75,000
Latvia 70,000
Yugoslavia 60,000
Greece 60,000
Austria over 50,000
Belgium 24,000
Italy (including Rhodes)
9,000
Estonia 2,000
Norway under 1,000
Luxemborg under 1,000
Danzig under 1,000
____________________________
Total 5,100,000

NOTE: Borders refer to 1937. Converts to Christianity are
included and refugees are counted with the countries from
which they were deported

Table B3
DEATHS BY YEAR

1933-1940 under 100,000
1941 1,100,000
1942 2,700,000
1943 500,000
1944 600,000
1945 100,000
______________
Total 5,100,000

Note Rounded to nearest 100,000

Now if you are just looking at Auschwitz, here are the figures from the
book “Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers” by
Jean-Claude Pressac. From the introduction by Beate and Serge Klarsfeld:

“TABLE SUMMARIZING THE FINDINGS OF GEORGES WELLER’S RESEARCH: Number of
deaths at Auschwitz

Category Total # total total
deportees dead survivors

Jews 1,433,405 1,352,980 (94.4%) 80,425 (5.6%)
“Poles” + EH 142,940 83,010 (58.1) 59,930 (40.9)
Gypsies 21,665 20,255 (93.5) 1,410 (6.5)
Russians 11,780 11,685 (99.2) 96 (0.8)

Total 1,613,455 1,471,595 (92.1) 141,860 (8.8)
(Note: EH = ‘Erziehungshaftlinge’–prisoners interned
for reeducation)

Weller further breaks down the deaths:

Category NUMBER OF DEAD
in gas chambers other causes

Jews 1,323,000 (92.3%) 29,980 (2.3%)
“Poles” + EH 3,665 ( 2.5) 83,010 (56.6)
Gypsies 6,430 (29.6) 13,825 (63.8)
Russians 1,605 (13.6) 10,080 ( 8.5)

Total 1,334,700 (82.7 %) 136,895 (8.5%)

Klarsfeld notes: “It should be pointed out that the great historian
estimates the number of Jews who entered Auschwitz-Birkinau at between
1,050,000 and 1,100,000 (Le Nouvel Observateur” 3rd July 1982)” [Since
Hilberg’s estimates in 1983, however, the fall of the Soviet Union has
made additional documents available that indicate these figures are
underestimated by at least 250,000…]

>From these figures we see that, while fewer gypsies and Russians were
gassed, they did poorly in the camps; that a greater proportion of Jews
were gassed than non-Jews and that Poles survived best of all–probably
because of their non-Jewish status. This supports eyewitness accounts
that indicate that Poles were given preferred status in the camps.


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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Fri Dec 13 09:04:52 PST 1996
Article: 85360 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Denial of Jewish Holocausts and Atrocities
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:01:25 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Doc Tavish wrote:
>
> The Nazis Were Not The First In Atrocities & Cruelty!
>
anti-Semitic ranting and raving snipped

> Submitted in the name of dissemination of the truth and nothing
> but the truth against the anti-Christian hordes that seek the
> destruction of gentile culture. Doc Tavish

Oh, great–just what Alt.Revisionism needs. Another wild-eyed
jew-hating homophobe kook prowling the halls. Spare us, Oh Lord!

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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sat Dec 14 17:02:17 PST 1996
Article: 85692 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematorium logistics
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:28:47 -0500
Organization: IDT
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tom moran wrote:
>
> >
> > As to the general architectural design of the building, it has an
> >aesthetic appeal. Made of stone, with tile roof, dormers and –
> >windows. Windows galore. Large double windows, running the full length
> >of the building. All this giving the crematoriums the appearance they
> >could be union halls, or mess halls, class rooms or whatever.
>
> Having gotten an aggrivated e-mail about this part of the last
> posted comment in the thread, I will comment on this crematorium
> design further.
> I would say most real revisionist representatives would recognize
> these buildings as having a function for a morgue in one of the
> cellars and some limited cremation capablility, probably taking place
> in the ell.

Pardon me for bursting your bubble, Tom, but can you tell me why a
morgue wouf need to be HEATED? Does sort of defeat the purpose of
perserving bodies, wouldn’t you say??
>
snip


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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Sun Dec 15 08:12:12 PST 1996
Article: 85776 of alt.revisionism
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher’s Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:25:12 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Tutu101 wrote:
>
> To Mr. Feree re the Dachau Gas Chamber: Evidence was posted on alt.
> revisionism months ago that this alleged gas chamber was not constructed>
until only a few months before the war ended.
If this statement is> correct,
that would mean that what you were told and what you have read is> untrue.

What exactly IS it that you think Mr. Feree has been told and has read
about Dachau? Your note is a bit incomplete–and therefore a waste of
bandwidth here.

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From Miasaura@ccnis.net Mon Dec 16 14:17:03 PST 1996
Article: 39051 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,
alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,
alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,
alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.correct,
alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:17:41 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:
64727 alt.politics.usa.constitution:106838
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soc.culture.usa:101265 alt.conspiracy:120848
talk.politics.misc:523900 alt.politics.correct:164862

Jim Stuart wrote:
>
> From: schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)
>
>from Jim Stuart
> 1. “The teachings of the Talmud stand above all other laws. They are
> more important than the laws of Moses.”-
> -Rabbi Ismael, Rabbi Chambar, et. al.
>
> Jim: This seems reasonable enough. I guess that the law of Moses
> is the ten commandments, right? Still, it is a question as to what
> the teaching are; can they be given any general characterization?
> Are there any examples?
>
> 2. “The Jews are human beings , but the nations of the world are not
> human beings but beasts.”-
> -Baba Mecia 114, 6.
>
> Jim: As I recall, there are references to various animals in
> astrology; so one person might be a Capricorn, and another might
> be a Taurus. So, is this the kind of symbolism that’s intended? On
> the face of it, the statement seems rather nationalistic, to say the
> least!
>
> 3. “Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would
> not have to be served by beasts.
> The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and commanded
> to serve the Jew day and night.”-
> -Midrasch Talpioth, p225-L.
>
> Jim: This is a pretty strong statement. It seems too specific to
> be mere symbolism. But, perhaps there is something that changes the
> meaning?
>
> 4. “At the time of the Cholhamoed the transaction of any kind of
> business is forbidden. But it is permitted
> to cheat a goy, because cheating of goyim at any time pleases the Lord.”-
> -Chulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 539.
>
> Jim: Well, here my lack of information is a problem. What on Earth is
> Cholhamoed? And, again, what exactly are goyim? Non-Jews, I guess?
> Anyway, the statement seems to speak for itself, but I’m open to
> clarifications.
>
> 5. “A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated.”-
> -Aboda Sarah 37a.
>
> Jim: This is an amazing statement; even if it is only historical,
> and has since been abandoned, the surface meaning seems shocking.
> But perhaps violated has a different meaning somehow? Or, was
> Aboda Sarah (What IS an Aboda? A name?) giving an example of
> an attitude that Jewish culture disapproved of?
>
> So, here’s the question again. Are these quotes in truth and in fact from
> the current Talmud? And, if they are, is the Talmud still viewed as a
> living, operative document? Or is it just an historical document,
> something that no one really cares about?
>
> If these statements are out of context, and mean something other
> than the surface appearance suggests, then I would like to learn
> the truth.
>
Jim, one excellent source for a rebuttal to the Talmud references you
cite–which, BTW, were gleaned from a pamphlet called “The Talmud
Unmasked”, obstensibly by “Rev” I. B. Pranaitus, but apparently by
Wesley Swift, Christian Identify preacher and well-known anti-Semite in
the 30’s. It was published by Lyrl Van Hyning, publisher of the
anti-Semitic, anti-Black paper, “Woman’s Voice”–is a book called
“Hoaxers: Plain Liars, Fancy Liars and Damned Liars” by Morrisy
Kominsky, Branden PRess 1970 ISBN 8283-1288-5.

I’m not Jewish and I’m not a Talmudic scholar, but I offer this
information: The Talmud consists of two parts–the Mishnah and its
commentary the Gemara. The Mishna was written about 200 CE and was the
first Jewish code of laws since the Torah. There are two Gemaras–the
Babylonian and the Palestinians. The Mishnah plus the Babylonian Gemara
is known as the Babylonian Talmud. The Mishnah plus the Palestinians
Gemara is known as the Palentinian Talmud. The two are never published
togehter.

The Talmuds–written as they were in the early centuries–contain of
superstition, narrowness, folly and intolerance, much as a lot of the
early Christian writings did. It seems a bit malicious to apply modern
standards to a 2000-year-old-document…and even MORE small-minded to
falsify the contents for the purpose of hate-mongering, as Mr. Swift
has.

In the 1950’s, Morris Kominsky investigated “The Talmud Unmasked” by
going to a Hebrew Scholar, Shimeon Brisman, formerly librarian of the LA
Jewish Community Library and bibliographer of Hebraica and Judaica at
the Research Library of UCLA. Here is a smaple of what they found:

>From “Talmud Unmasked”:

“To communicate anything to a goy (gentile) about our
religious relations would be equal to the killing of all
Jews, for if the goyim (gentiles) knew what we teach about
they would kill us openly”-Libbe David 37.”

There is no “Libbe David” in the Talmud or in the entire Jewish
literature according to Mr. Brisman. Possibly the author means the
Latin for “book of David” (also known as Psalms in the Bible?)

“A Jew should and must make a false oath when the goyim
(gentile) asks if our books contain anything against
them”- Szaaloth Urszabot, the Book of Jore Dia 17″

This is another complete falsification. There is no such
quote in “The Book of Jore Dia 17” and there is no such
book as “Szaaloth Urszbot” according to Shimeon Brisman,
The words “Szaaloth Urszbot” are PART of the title of some 1500 books,
but translated means “responses”.

“The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world
are not human beings but beasts”-Baba Meca 114-6

This is a complete fabrication. Interestingly, Ms Van Hyning originally
printed the number as “114-6” which is an impossible number in the
Talmud. It would have to be 114-a or 114-b.

“A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat
her as he treats a piece of meat”-Nadarine, 20, B;
SchudehanAruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

This is a falsified version of an actual quote designed to inflame much
as the Klu Klux Klan used to proclaim that black men were out to rape
white women’s nubile bodies. The actual quotation is: “The Rabbis say:
That whatever a man wants to do with his wife he may do; just as he can
prepare meat to suit his fancy.” Quite a difference. But where did
they get the “non-Jewess” part?

“All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish
nation, which, consequently is entitled to seize upon it
without any scruples. An Orthodox Jew is not bound to
observe principals of morality, if profitable to himself or
to Jews in general”-Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

This is a complete fabrication, as you can easily verify for yourself.
Get a copy of the Talmud and LOOK IT UP.

“On the house of the goy(gentile) one looks as on the fold
of cattle”-Tosefta, Erubin VII, 1.

Another fabrication. Tosefta is not part of the Talmud.

Hope this helps.

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Thu Dec 19 05:54:08 PST 1996
Article: 86626 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,
alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,
alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:27:00 -0500
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<58pr19$hfk@news.usaor.net> <32B0B96F.171D@ziplink.net>
<32b1f14c.313026@news.micron.net> <32b368be.29313033@news.gte.net>
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alt.conspiracy:121774 alt.religion.islam:36465
alt.revisionism:86626

Doc Tavish wrote:

> Attention all lurkers we must have democracy. The majority must be able
> to practice their religion as they please without the interference of
> the minority. What was good for South Africa as pushed by the liberals,
> let the majority rule, then let us imitate them in principle here. If it
> is good for Israel to have their religion as the dominate one relegating
> Christianity to a secondary status we must not let them tell us to
> remove crosses and the like from the roadside etc. Gentiles must have
> equal footing with Jews. What is good for them must be good for us IF we
> are truly equal.

Speaking as a person raised in the Lutheran faith, I resent your
attempts to speak for me. _I_ don’t want to see Christianity shoved
down the throats of every man woman and child in America and I
especially don’t want to see your ethnocentric, xenophobic version of
Christianity anywhere near me or my kids.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Thu Dec 19 05:54:10 PST 1996
Article: 86628 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!
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From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,
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Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
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<32b52bdd.64691104@199.0.216.204>
<01bbe79b$fc85e0c0$e5809710@sheldon.ako.dec.com>
<58nj6v$iut@sf18.dseg.ti.com> <32b362cb.27789962@news.gte.net>
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alt.conspiracy:121776 alt.religion.islam:36467
alt.revisionism:86628 soc.culture.jewish:100857

Doc Tavish wrote:
>
> Let me ask a question- just how many Sara aka perfffects, Joel
> Rosenbergs, delete the spam etc. work for Nizkor or whatever? It seems
> like all of you are on these wavelengths for extraordinary amounts of
> time everyday of the week. How can any of you have regular jobs when you
> are on the computer watching for every “anti-Semite” that could come on
> line? All you do is try to muddy the water and discredit people who do
> not share your views. We can’t hear you or see you and all of you more
> or less use the same line. Which Sara is this number 1, number 2, number
> 3, or number 4. Has anybody else picked up on this MO?
> Doc Tavish

Ha! You just can’t STAND it that there are people in this world who
voluntarily give up their precious free time to stand up against your
petty prothletizing. Even during this busy Christmas season I will
manage to find a few moments to put my 2 cents in: Racism and
anti-Semitism are not tolerated in a healthy society. Your National
Socialism and tyrannical Christianity are not what I want for my family.
>
> The United States was not founded to be an annexed Israeli State. I pray
> that ZOG kills over and dies tonight. Long live the dreams of our
> forefathers.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 24 08:25:08 PST 1996
Article: 87901 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
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www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.idt.net!206.20.179.44
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:29:07 -0500
Organization: IDT
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Message-ID: <32B7FFB3.5E2D@ccnis.net>
References: <32a8c370.110136825@news.micron.net>
<58d7bk$3jd$1@gryphon.phoenix.net>
<58dri5$13m@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <58mgp0$8f@news.usaor.net>
<32AEEC55.76F0@columbia.edu> <58pr19$hfk@news.usaor.net>
<32B0B96F.171D@ziplink.net> <32b1f14c.313026@news.micron.net>
<32b368be.29313033@news.gte.net> <32b5d564.69023800@news.micron.net>
<597mq1$bbm$2@uhura.phoenix.net> <597vkg$d2b$2@uhura.phoenix.net>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)

Doc Tavish wrote:
> I was rferring to what a certain kike prefers to eat yid! Musch love
> toward you chosen ones! I will not apologize any more to you bastards.
> Doc Tavish Digging in

I thought you weren’t going to use that kind of language around here
anymore. Is that another example of National Socialist integrity? I
find your remarks repulsive and offensive. Take your Nazi propoganda
elsewhere if you can’t control your potty-mouth.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 24 08:25:09 PST 1996
Article: 87906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!
news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.41
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,
alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 961213: repost ZGram Dec13
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:43:22 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <32B9548A.71D5@ccnis.net>
References: <199612140138.RAA18932@mailmasher.com>
<32b2e029.48357781@news.winternet.com>
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To: “tavish@phoenix.net”@phoenix.net
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alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3252 alt.conspiracy:123535
alt.politics.nationalism.white:40260 alt.politics.
white-power:53143

Doc Tavish wrote:
> ————-
> Joel “he who laughs last laughs best” the world is watching. People are
> noticing how consistently you Jew boys resort to the name calling and
> personal slams.

Calling a person “Jew boy” IS name calling and a personal slam, sir.

I have told many of my E-Mailers that this is nothing
> but the MO of the Kremlin Operative and that this is the only way that
> you all will ever reply. How many Joels are there? I’ve noticed that you
> are on to spit your venom at all times of the day all week long.

First of all, I know Joel and he is only one man. Secondly, usenet posts
appear whenever the ISP forwards them to your local server. It has
nothing to do with when a person to post–it has to do with the ISP.
That means you can’t deduce how much time a person spends on the
internet by when their post show up on the newsgroup.

We
> never hear your voices nor see your faces. Style would be easy to dupe
> when all you do is parrot the same cheap Marxist answers. Remember this
> Joel 1 or Joel 2 or Joel 3 or Joel 4 you all exist among Goliaths and
> you are without a David. I’ve had two college professors E-Mail me last
> night about me making this observation late yesterday and they have said
> some of their colleagues have noticed this too. We all remember Kruschev
> saying: “We will bury you and it will all come from within- without a
> shot being fired.”

Are you saying rebutting anti-Semites is a Commie plot? Oh, honestly!
don’t be silly!

Joel, whichever number, you are proof that this sort
> of stuff may be happening. Do you all have a little Kremlin Computer
> Boiler Room where you sit and react to every post that anyone makes
> critical of socialists? I see it and now I open my E-Mail box and wit
> for it to choke again. Joel you, Sara aka perfffect or Natasha, delete
> the spam are now officially put on notice that we are paying attention
> to you all too. Everybody just watch these aliens react to all the posts
> and how consistent they are. You are witnessing your freedoms of speech
> and discussion being subverted.

Aliens? Sara and Joel are American citizens. You are not. Who is the
alien?

>
> The Soviet system always assassinates the persons character. Just watch
> each one of these characters and you will see that they never change
> their MO.
>
The Soviet system! Silly, silly, silly. You see Communists under every
bed!
> Doc Tavish in the vanguard.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 24 08:25:10 PST 1996
Article: 87910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!
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cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.42
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,
alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.skinheads,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general,
Subject: Re: >>>RADIO FREEDOM NOW ON THE AIR<<< 100% FREE – CHECK US OUT!
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:18:18 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <32B9A30A.583B@ccnis.net>
References: <596jbm$s1l@news.interlog.com>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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To: Marc Lemire
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:
3253 alt.revisionism:87910 alt.politics.white-power:
53146 alt.politics.nationalism.white:40262
alt.skinheads:46304 can.politics:91328 ont.general:63214

Marc Lemire wrote:
>
> ***** FREEDOM ALERT ***** FREEDOM ALERT ***** FREEDOM ALERT *****
>
> _RADIO FREEDOM_
> http://www.ftcnet.com/~freedom
>
> Insightful commentary and thought provoking news

Mr Lemire, I recently read your affidavit on the Zundel site in which
you tell of breaking into the KLANWATCH answering machine, intercepting
phone numbers and harrassing people who called there for information.
How do you resolve this act with your current ‘freedom’ stance? The two
seem mutually exclusive to me.

From miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Dec 25 14:31:30 PST 1996
Article: 88380 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!
df.lth.se!news.lth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!
newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!
www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.idt.net!
nntp-hub.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.41
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the latest on Yale the Whale
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:55:39 -0500
Organization: Miasaura
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <32C0191B.2ABE@ccnis.net>
References: <32be2424.115806890@news.gte.net>
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Inveigh the kenneth wrote:
>
> I have to admit this took a while but here is the final scoop.
>
> This YFE who complains about his family being harrassed is not
> married. He has no family. Besides that, he is not even jewish.
>
> The folks in Allentown know him as one who is constantly moaning
> about his lost family in the Holocaust. Yet they know that his family
> has been in the area for over a century.
>
> His mother, deceased, was a Quaker. She married Amish and remained
> with the community while Yale left it at 15. Yale was baptised at 12
> and took the given name Ezra.
>
> His father is still alive but refuses to speak with him, having
> disowned him for leaving the commuinity under as yet undiscovered
> circumstances.
>
> Beyond that, more to be reported as the information comes in.
> Remember, holohuggers, this is your YFE whom you know and love.
>
You mean Yale’s lovely wife does not exist? Hmmm–then you was it I had
that lovely brunch with this summer? The caviar and sushi were fine but
we especially liked the fresh oysters!
>
HA!

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Dec 25 15:40:06 PST 1996
Article: 40260 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
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cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!
nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.41
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,
alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 961213: repost ZGram Dec13
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:43:22 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <32B9548A.71D5@ccnis.net>
References: <199612140138.RAA18932@mailmasher.com>
<32b2e029.48357781@news.winternet.com>
<597560$8dd$1@uhura.phoenix.net>
<599ps1$k61$1@uhura.phoenix.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.20.179.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: “tavish@phoenix.net”@phoenix.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:87906
alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3252 alt.conspiracy:123535
alt.politics.nationalism.white:40260
alt.politics.white-power:53143

Doc Tavish wrote:
> ————-
> Joel “he who laughs last laughs best” the world is watching. People are
> noticing how consistently you Jew boys resort to the name calling and
> personal slams.

Calling a person “Jew boy” IS name calling and a personal slam, sir.

I have told many of my E-Mailers that this is nothing
> but the MO of the Kremlin Operative and that this is the only way that
> you all will ever reply. How many Joels are there? I’ve noticed that you
> are on to spit your venom at all times of the day all week long.

First of all, I know Joel and he is only one man. Secondly, usenet posts
appear whenever the ISP forwards them to your local server. It has
nothing to do with when a person to post–it has to do with the ISP.
That means you can’t deduce how much time a person spends on the
internet by when their post show up on the newsgroup.

We
> never hear your voices nor see your faces. Style would be easy to dupe
> when all you do is parrot the same cheap Marxist answers. Remember this
> Joel 1 or Joel 2 or Joel 3 or Joel 4 you all exist among Goliaths and
> you are without a David. I’ve had two college professors E-Mail me last
> night about me making this observation late yesterday and they have said
> some of their colleagues have noticed this too. We all remember Kruschev
> saying: “We will bury you and it will all come from within- without a
> shot being fired.”

Are you saying rebutting anti-Semites is a Commie plot? Oh, honestly!
don’t be silly!

Joel, whichever number, you are proof that this sort
> of stuff may be happening. Do you all have a little Kremlin Computer
> Boiler Room where you sit and react to every post that anyone makes
> critical of socialists? I see it and now I open my E-Mail box and wit
> for it to choke again. Joel you, Sara aka perfffect or Natasha, delete
> the spam are now officially put on notice that we are paying attention
> to you all too. Everybody just watch these aliens react to all the posts
> and how consistent they are. You are witnessing your freedoms of speech
> and discussion being subverted.

Aliens? Sara and Joel are American citizens. You are not. Who is the
alien?

>
> The Soviet system always assassinates the persons character. Just watch
> each one of these characters and you will see that they never change
> their MO.
>
The Soviet system! Silly, silly, silly. You see Communists under every
bed!
> Doc Tavish in the vanguard.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From Miasaura@ccnis.net Wed Dec 25 15:42:07 PST 1996
Article: 53143 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!
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nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!
news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!
news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.41
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,
alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: 961213: repost ZGram Dec13
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:43:22 -0500
Organization: IDT
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <32B9548A.71D5@ccnis.net>
References: <199612140138.RAA18932@mailmasher.com>
<32b2e029.48357781@news.winternet.com>
<597560$8dd$1@uhura.phoenix.net>
<599ps1$k61$1@uhura.phoenix.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.20.179.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: “tavish@phoenix.net”@phoenix.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:87906
alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3252 alt.conspiracy:123535
alt.politics.nationalism.white:40260
alt.politics.white-power:53143

Doc Tavish wrote:
> ————-
> Joel “he who laughs last laughs best” the world is watching. People are
> noticing how consistently you Jew boys resort to the name calling and
> personal slams.

Calling a person “Jew boy” IS name calling and a personal slam, sir.

I have told many of my E-Mailers that this is nothing
> but the MO of the Kremlin Operative and that this is the only way that
> you all will ever reply. How many Joels are there? I’ve noticed that you
> are on to spit your venom at all times of the day all week long.

First of all, I know Joel and he is only one man. Secondly, usenet posts
appear whenever the ISP forwards them to your local server. It has
nothing to do with when a person to post–it has to do with the ISP.
That means you can’t deduce how much time a person spends on the
internet by when their post show up on the newsgroup.

We
> never hear your voices nor see your faces. Style would be easy to dupe
> when all you do is parrot the same cheap Marxist answers. Remember this
> Joel 1 or Joel 2 or Joel 3 or Joel 4 you all exist among Goliaths and
> you are without a David. I’ve had two college professors E-Mail me last
> night about me making this observation late yesterday and they have said
> some of their colleagues have noticed this too. We all remember Kruschev
> saying: “We will bury you and it will all come from within- without a
> shot being fired.”

Are you saying rebutting anti-Semites is a Commie plot? Oh, honestly!
don’t be silly!

Joel, whichever number, you are proof that this sort
> of stuff may be happening. Do you all have a little Kremlin Computer
> Boiler Room where you sit and react to every post that anyone makes
> critical of socialists? I see it and now I open my E-Mail box and wit
> for it to choke again. Joel you, Sara aka perfffect or Natasha, delete
> the spam are now officially put on notice that we are paying attention
> to you all too. Everybody just watch these aliens react to all the posts
> and how consistent they are. You are witnessing your freedoms of speech
> and discussion being subverted.

Aliens? Sara and Joel are American citizens. You are not. Who is the
alien?

>
> The Soviet system always assassinates the persons character. Just watch
> each one of these characters and you will see that they never change
> their MO.
>
The Soviet system! Silly, silly, silly. You see Communists under every
bed!
> Doc Tavish in the vanguard.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

And be sure to check out:
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad

From miasaura@ccnis.net Fri Dec 27 11:37:12 PST 1996
Article: 89223 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!
news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!
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news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.44
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Letter About The Holocaust by Ken Blewitt
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:26:04 -0500
Organization: Miasaura
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <32C3F89C.2B2E@ccnis.net>
References: <32C2E315.F5C@phoenix.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.20.179.2
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:89223 alt.politics.nationalism.white:40881

Doc Tavish wrote:
>
> Doc Tavish follows thru on a promise he made to a correspondent. Mr.
> Blewitt asked that I post this for him because of some software
> difficulties he is having. I always seek to follow through on what I
> promise so here it is:
>
snip

Who is “Ken Blewitt” and why should anyone here care what he thinks?
Why waste bandwidth with this stuff, Doc? You “Blewitt”

Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

From miasaura@ccnis.net Sat Dec 28 09:13:51 PST 1996
Article: 89530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!
vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!
laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!
usenet.logical.net!dciteleport.com!
www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!
news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.42
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yoo hoo, Mike Stein: Care to add up the Holocaust 6 Million Please?
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:23:13 -0500
Organization: Miasaura
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <32C54971.5CCB@ccnis.net>
References: <32c45b7f.307589000@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.20.179.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit)
To: Kurt Stele

Kurt Stele wrote:
>
> Mike Stein has repeatedly claimed that despite a 3 million person
> reduction in the Auschwitz number of Jews allegedly killed, this does
> not affect the total number of the sacred 6 million.
>
> Mr. Stein, please add up the figures. Show the world how the 6
> million number is true. I’m waiting…
>
Kurt, this has been posted many times before–perhaps you’d like to
review this info again and comment?

Appendix Table B2 from Raul Hilberg’s “Destruction of
European Jewry” Vol III, p1220:

DEATHS BY COUNTRY

Poland up to 3,000,000
USSR over 700,000
Romania 270,000
Czechoslovakia 260,000
Hungary over 180,000
Lithuania up to 130,000
Germany over 120,000
Netherlands over 100,000
France 75,000
Latvia 70,000
Yugoslavia 60,000
Greece 60,000
Austria over 50,000
Belgium 24,000
Italy (including Rhodes)
9,000
Estonia 2,000
Norway under 1,000
Luxemborg under 1,000
Danzig under 1,000
____________________________
Total 5,100,000

NOTE: Borders refer to 1937. Converts to Christianity are
included and refugees are counted with the countries from
which they were deported

Table B3
DEATHS BY YEAR

1933-1940 under 100,000
1941 1,100,000
1942 2,700,000
1943 500,000
1944 600,000
1945 100,000
______________
Total 5,100,000

Note Rounded to nearest 100,000

For a good accounting of the numbers killed, refer to appendix III of
Raul Hilberg’s “The Destruction of the European Jews”:

STATISTICAL RECAPITULATION OF JEWISH DEAD
(by operation)
Area of mobile killing operations: 1,400,000
tabulated dead (900,000)
untabulated dead (500,000)=
unreported by Einsatzgruppen (150,000?)
Higher SS and police leaders and BdS GG (100,000)
Army killings, PW killings and operations by
anti-partisan units (100,000)
Ghetto dead (100,000)
death of fleeing Jews (50,000?)
Area of deportations: 3,700,000
Killed in camps (including Transnistria) (3,000,000)
ghetto and aggravated deaths (700,000)
TOTAL >5,100,000

NOTE: Recent developments in the former USSR have uncovered more data,
which, I have heard, indicates that these figures are under-calculated
by 250,000-500,000.

No matter how you count it, it appears that 5-6 million Jews
disappeared fromt he face of the earth between 1935-1945.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

From miasaura@ccnis.net Mon Dec 30 13:41:50 PST 1996
Article: 90023 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.44
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Letter About The Holocaust by Ken Blewitt
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:03:11 -0500
Organization: Miasaura
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <32C7E7BF.4CEA@ccnis.net>
References: <32C2E315.F5C@phoenix.net>
<19961226231600.SAA00711@ladder01.news.aol.com>
<59vpcl$f6q@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <32c57f27.19467488@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
<32C6FCB5.6BF3@phoenix.net>
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Doc Tavish wrote:
>
> Man, all of you have Matt Giwer on the brain. Blewitt is Blewitt- is
> everybody Matt Giwer? I am serious. Annie Alpert of Nizkor said I (Doc
> Tavish) was Blewitt and you say Blewitt is Giwer- therefore Doc Tavish
> is Giwer too! (Ursus settle down don’t dis me on this important fact
> finding mission.)

Mr. Tavish, may I respectfully offer that you, sir, have “Doc Tavish on
the brain?

I sure don’t recollect saying that you ‘were’ or even attempted to
portray yourself as Mr. Blewitt. I did say that posting Mr. Blewitt’s
opus here was a pain since I had no idea who he was.

Might I also suggest that your incessant crowing about your prowess is
getting a bit tiresome? If you have some factual information to
present about the Holocaust, let’s get down to it. If all you want to
do is engage in a flame war, I suggest you find another forum for it.


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

From miasaura@ccnis.net Tue Dec 31 09:10:19 PST 1996
Article: 90178 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!
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nntp.farm.idt.net!206.20.179.44
From: Annie Alpert
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ultimate Responsibility
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:41:01 -0500
Organization: Miasaura
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <32C7E28D.5004@ccnis.net>
References: <32cef1c0.3686181@199.0.216.204>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit)
To: tom moran

tom moran wrote:
>
> This is a repost.
>
>
> “Know ye not history and you are doomed to repeat it.”
>
Tom–your opus here begins with a error of quotation. The quote you
(actually, the true, uncredited author of the piece) present here is by
Geeorges Santanya and the actual quotation is:

“Those who do not remember the past are condemmed to repeat it.”

No “ye”s, you’ll notice.

If your article starts out with such a glaring blooper, how do you
expect anyone to take the rest of it seriously? Honestly! Why waste
our time with this?


Nizkor (USA) – An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Nizkor Web: https://www.nizkor.org/
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/

Path: news.voyager.net!clmx12.dial.voyager.net!user
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Brave Sir Winston! (was Re: Nizkor afraid of debate?)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:19:12 -0500
Organization: Voyager Information Networks, Inc.
Lines: 150
Message-ID:
References: <199701231832.KAA10507@mailmasher.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vixa.voyager.net
Xref: news.voyager.net alt.revisionism:10002
alt.politics.nationalism.white:52073
alt.politics.white-power:64052 alt.skinheads:62869

Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Winston!

nswpp@earthlink.net (Harold Covington aka “Winston Smith”) wrote to
revisionism@c2.net, on January 25th, 1997:

> COCKROACH INFESTATION
>
> It appears as if the Nizkor cockroaches have indeed targeted
>these two Revisionist automatic listservs, and fairly soon they
>will deteriorate into Nizkor playgroups which are nothing more
>than public forums for these people to scream abuse and insults
>and threats at anyone who dares to oppose the Chosen People.
>
> This will accordingly be my last post to either list. I have
>explained to Nizkor the conditions under which I am willing to
>debate them and that does not include hijacking other people’s
>forums or anything in the Usenet format which allows them to bring
>Willard and his army of rodents along.
>
> My best wishes to Ralph Johnson, Chuck, and all the others who
>have made these lists so interesting and valuable in the past.
>
> 88!
> Winston Smith

The cockroaches in question are Rich Green and Annie Alpert. Here are
samples from those cockroaches, with their screaming abuse:

“My name is Rich and I just recently joined this list. I’m
interested in revisionism and open debate on the Holocaust. Does
this list engage in open debate on the Holocaust or did I join the
wrong list.”

“The report you mention quotes the _Protocols of Zion_. I’ve
heard that this document is a forgery. Is that true.”

“Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison? What is it and
what was it used for?”

“Now that sounds like a good place to start! Can you give me some
specific references to the Bible and the Talmud?”

“Can you tell me, Joe, at what concentration this material becomes
explosive? Also, at what concentration was it used? It seems
like we can figure out whether these claims the Jews made, make
any sense.”

“I’m sorry to belabor this point then. Let’s move back to the
main topic.”

Here are some sample insults:

“I happen to have done a little research into the background of
the document known as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I
understand you don’t think it matters if they are a forgery or
not, but I think it does matter–since an argument based on a lie
isn’t worth very much, IMO.”

“In answer to your questions, here are osme facts about Zyklon-B.”

“Is this group about revisionism really? I’d like to start
debating the holocaust.”

“I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn’t
as big an issue as you may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at
Auschwitz were not cremated.”

“Sorry, Mr. Anonymous–no Khazars in MY family tree. We’re a
bunch of midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and
Austria. Perhaps you have me confused with someone or something
else?”

“Actually, I am a graduate student in chemistry. HCN is a very
dangerous and fast acting poison. It binds to Cytochrome-C and
prevents respiration at the cellular level.”

Here are some sample threats:

“I don’t understand. Are these numbers wrong.”

“So it seems that Winston believes that the methods said to have
been used at Treblinka would have worked. Does everyone on the
list agree that diesel engines can kill?”

“I’m just trying to understand your argument here. Are you saying
that no fuel was ever ordered? If not, how much fuel do you claim
was ordered and how much do you claim was necessary?”

“Oh, I get it–you think I’m Jewish! Sorry. Not the case. If
you think about for a few minutes, I think you can figure out
where you went wrong. It’s very simple really. ”

“Sorry, I don’t have a scanner. I’m sure you know that this book
is available at a library, however. So you might consider looking
there.”

“That seems like 2000 pounds of coal per person. That seems like
an overestimate to me. Can you please clarify?”

And finally, when this “screaming abuse” became too much for the list
maintainers to bear, the “cockroaches” were simply dropped from the
list, or one of them anyway. Rich Green even went on to ask,
innocently:

“By the way, someone seems to have accidentally dropped me from
this list. I’m sure that it was an accident as I’ve been assured
by Joe that this list is about open debate on the Holocaust
without fear of censorship. If I’m wrong and that’s not the
purpose of this list, please let me know.”

The answer from the list maintainer was that he was “agitating” and
therefore unwelcome. He was then given the contradictory instructions:
“Dropping you twice already from the list was therefore no accident.
Dont come back,” and, in the same breath, “post information if you have
new evidence or you can proof or disproof some Revisionist material.”

As should be obvious from the above, presenting “new evidence” and
attempting to “disproof some Revisionist material” is exactly what he
had been doing.

“Winston Smith”‘s cowardice is especially noteworthy because he did
indeed participate in the debate, for a brief time. His complaints
about his ground rules not being followed are therefore irrelevant.
He even _started_ the debate, with his “The Holocaust Is Bunk” post.
And at one point, he admitted that Rich Green had “a good point”
(about the discussion topic having been, until he and Ms. Alpert
arrived, anything _but_ revisionism).

Things were going swimmingly until “Winston” faced the first real
response to his position.

At that point, his ignorance of the subject became apparent quickly —
for example, he ridiculed the idea that diesel engines can’t kill, when
that has been a staple of “revisionism” since 1983. Faced with a
deficit of facts, his only choice was to flee.

So, tail tucked between his legs, flee he did!

If anyone wants the full record of what the cockroaches said, so they
can judge for themselves whether “Winston”‘s excuse is valid, I’ve
archived it at:

https://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/c/covington.harold/brave-sir-winston

Posted; emailed to Annie Alpert, Rich Green, and the “Artist Not
Formerly Known As Rich Green,” aka Rich Graves. Not emailed to
“Winston Smith” because I have nothing to say to him.

Jamie McCarthy http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
jamie@voyager.net Co-Webmaster of https://www.nizkor.org/

Subject: Re: And Now for ….”The Sixth Gender”
Sent: January 22, 1997, 8:40 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

I thought it was obvious that this “article” from the “Down Jones” news
agency was a clever satire–did you really beleive it was real? Check
out the name of the spokesman–“Roger Mortis” for instance. Get it?
rigor mortis=Roger Mortis? Come on — lighten up, guys!

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 22, 1997, 10:54 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Hello all,

My name is Rich and I just recently joined this list. I’m interested in
revisionism and open debate on the Holocaust. Does this list engage in
open debate on the Holocaust or did I join the wrong list.

Also, I just read about Jewish ritual murder. Do people believe that
this is true?

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 2:14 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Rick,

Thanks for your reply.

You can read about the many documented court convictions throughout
history of ritual murder and make upyour own mind. Arnold Leese
wrote an extenisive defense arguing the reality of this horrendous
practice. This can be read at: http://www.melvig.org/jrm/jrm_toc.html

I guess that you do believe it from your reply. Do others on this list
also believe it? Can you refer me to independent confirmation? Also, do
Jews still engage in this practice? How come I never hear about it?
The report you mention quotes the _Protocols of Zion_. I’ve heard that
this document is a forgery. Is that true.

BTW, I think it is very relevant to Historical Revisionism because it
is a witness of the character of the accusers.

Who are the accusers? Anyway, I’m more interested in debate about the
evidence. Is this the right list for that?

Best Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 4:02 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

And Streicher run into problems with the Hitler regime as well. He had
enemies on both sides because Hitler (1/4 jewish himself) had many
Jews on his paylist and Management and Goverment. Even the company
who produced the Cyclon-B poison, IG-Farben, had an important Jew in
their management, a Warburg-Banker.

Hi I’m sorry I don’t know your name,

Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison? What is it and what
was it used for?

Thanks,

Rich

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 4:05 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:

Although all Jews are aware of the blood rite and its importance
to the Jewish cult, only the most important Jewish leaders, the rabbis
and the wealthiest members of the Jewish community, are allowed to
participate in the blood-drinking rite.

Hi Rick,

Is it really ture that all Jews are aware of this ritual? I’ve asked
some people I know and they weren’t aware of such a ritual. Also, if
the police are aware of such event as you say, how come they don’t
arrest people.

I must say this sounds very strange to me. I really did join,
however, in order to learn the truth about the holocaust. How come no
one wants to talk about that?

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:37 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

And of course you must forget about the stories in the bible and the
talmud and the book og esther because they approve or speak of many
such instances.

Now that sounds like a good place to start! Can you give me some specific
references to the Bible and the Talmud? Also, since it’s in the Bible,
does that mean that Jesus engaged in this ritual murder too?

Thanks,

Rich

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:42 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Hi,

I’m sorry I still don’t know your name.

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

Besides – strictly legally – the Protocols ARE TRUE. The only courtcase
over it in switzerland the first court decided it was a forgery. Then
somebody. I think a man called Fleischmann or so, I am not sure of
his name, produced some evidence and the revision at a second level
court has suspened this first courts decision.

So are you saying that they are true or that they are forgeries; I wasn’t
quite clear. Also, do I have to believe them to believe revisionism?
If I don’t believe in a Jewish conspiracy, is there no way to prove the
case for revisionism? I didn’t realize that the case against the
holocaust necessitted such a thing.

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 5:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

This sounds about as unreasonable as the hundreds of satanic abuse cases
that have sprung up in past years–according to the reports, tens of
thousands of infants have been sacrificed to satan by secret cults all
over the country. The claimants are nearly always young women with a
history of mental problems, too. A good book on the subject is “Satanic
Panic: The Creation of a Contemporary Legend” (Open Court, Chicago, Il
1993) by Jeffrey S. Victor, a sociologist. Skeptical Inquirer magazine
has done a number of articles on this subject (Spring 1994 and Fall 1994
come to hand)

We see similar statistics in the UFO abduction phenomena–tens of
thousands of people disappearing nightly with no trace.

You don’t really believe in that stuff, do you?

Subject: Re: From Der Stuermer
Sent: January 23, 1997, 6:44 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

You really MUST be new on this list. Just call me joe anonym. Dont you
know that in certain countries you can get livetime jail for posting
and saying things like that. And you have jewish informer on every list.

Hi Joe, I understand why you might be scared; so I’ll call you Joe.

Cyclon-B was and still is used for delousing cloth and
material and it is deadly and very dangerous because of explosions.
Jews have “remembered” and were eyewitnesses and haven drawn pictures
with guards smoking and eating while removing corpses, standing in a
blue fog. And next to it ovens where flames were shooting out of the
chimneys.

Can you tell me, Joe, at what concentration this material becomes
explosive? Also, at what concentration was it used? It seems like we can
figure out whether these claims the Jews made, make any sense.

Thanks for the URL, I’ll take a look.

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 23, 1997, 8:49 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:

They are aware of it as the “blood libel” while denying it’s
existence out of ignorance or dishonesty. I doubt there is any
significant number of Jews who practice the ritual.

So you’re disagreeing with Rick. Rick seemed to argue that they knew it
was true, whereas you’re claiming that many of them don’t know its true.
Am I understanding your dispute correctly?

> I must say this sounds very strange to me. I really did join,
> however, in order to learn the truth about the holocaust. How come no
> one wants to talk about that?

You must be very new to the list. If you recall, you’ve kept the
subject alive by your questions after one single post on the subject.
The bulk of the mail has been about the “holocaust” ™.

Great! I’m sorry to belabor this point then. Let’s move back to the main
topic.

Best Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 23, 1997, 8:44 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 rs@enetis.net wrote:

If a history of mental illness is just cause to question a persons
testimony does this give us grounds to doubt every Jew since they are
afflicted with more nervous diseases and mental illness than any other
identifiable group?

Is that true? Do you have statistics on this.

Doesn’t this say all there is to be said about your objectivity and
“reasonableness?” If you want to deny the dozens of documented
convictions throughout the last several hundred years then why not
continue your doubting streak and doubt something even less documented –
the alleged extermination of 6 million Jews by the Nazis?

Are there reaslly more documents on these convictions. For instance,
let’s just look at the IMT series. Can you produce more documentation of
convictions for Ritual Murder than exist in the IMT series?

Thanks,

Rich

Subject: The Protocols
Sent: January 23, 1997, 6:29 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:

> You must be new in this field. Basically and principally, it does not make
> a deut of difference if the protocols are a forgery or not. Every bit what has
> been written in it, has come true so far. So what need is there to discuss
> forgery or not. If you want to know what the future looks like it, read
> the Protocols.
>
> Besides – strictly legally – the Protocols ARE TRUE. The only courtcase
> over it in switzerland the first court decided it was a forgery. Then
> somebody. I think a man called Fleischmann or so, I am not sure of his name,
> produced some evidence and the revision at a second level court has suspened
> this first courts decision.

I happen to have done a little research into the background of the
document known as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I understand you
don’t think it matters if they are a forgery or not, but I think it does
matter–since an argument based on a lie isn’t worth very much, IMO.

The 24 Protocols of the Elders of Zion are supposed to be the minutes
of a meeting of Jews convened in the last years of the 19th century.
They contain incredible statements of a plot by Jews to overthrow the
world. For instance:

“We shall create by all the secret subterranian methods open to us and
with the aid of gold, which is all in our hands, a universal economic
crises whereby we shall throw upon the streets whole mobs of workers
simultaneously in all the countries of Europe.” (Third Protocol)

Peter Graves, a London Times correspondent, demonstrated in a series
of articles in 1921 that they are based on a small volume written by a
Paris Lawyer, Maurice Joly in 1864 entitled: “Dialouge in Hell between
Machiavelli and Montesquieu: or the Politics of Machiavelli in the
nineteenth century” to discredit the second empire of Napolean III.
When you see the two side-by-side, the deception becomes apparent.
There are over 175 passages in the Protocols that are taken bodily
from Joly’s novel. Here are a couple:

Joly, Brussels Edition 1864:
“Like God Wishnu, my press will have one hundred
arms, each hand of which will feel all shades of
public opinion.” (P 141)

From Nilus’ “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”:
Like the Hindu God Wishnu, they will have one
hundred hands, each one of which will feel the
pulsation of some intellectual tendency.” (p 43)

Joly:
“The political has nothing to do with the moral.”
(p19)

Protocols:
Has politics anything to do with morals?”

They first appeared widely during the Civil war that followed the
Russian Revolution of 1917, used by Tsarists to discredit Bolsheviks.
They were originally written by a flunky in the Paris branch of the
Czarist Russian secret police Okrana in 1899 or 1901 on the pamphlet.
When you see the two side-by-side, the deception becomes apparent.

The Protocols have been shown to be a base fraud, created for the
purpose of creating hatred against Jews and to divert the attention of
exploited and frustrated people, away from their real oppressors, and
turn the wrath of the people against the Jews. Thus, the Jews would
become the easy scapegoat.

Basically, they have been used by various people as “proof” that there
is a world-wide plot by people of the Jewish persuasion to control
the world through covert means. Now, it’s not nice to go around
accusing people of things like plotting to overthrow society as we
know it. A person doesn’t make that type of accusation with love in
his/her heart. Personally, I don’t believe in world-wide
conspiracies–Too many people, places and things have to come together
at just the right time to make them work. Most people in this world
can’t put together a decent surprise party, let alone plan world
domination without detection.

For more information, try “An Appraisal of the Protocols of Zion”,
(John S. Curtiss, Columbia University Press, NY 1942) or “THE
HOAXERS-PLAIN LIARS, FANCY LIARS AND DAMNED LIARS” by Morris Kominsky

Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 23, 1997, 9:08 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Winston Smith wrote:

Secondly, the Jews deserve everything that has happened to them in
the past and everything that is coming to them in the future, especially
when the Palestinians get their state as a toehold and America finally runs
out of money and the New Yahk-Tel Aviv lifeline collapses. I do not
question that innocent individuals of Jewish extraction have suffered
down through the ages for crimes which they as individuals did not
commit—but my people and all the peoples of the world have suffered
far more at the hands of the Chosen Ones.

What do you believe happened to them in the past. If they deserved it,
why didn’t the holocaust happen? Also, you call yourself a National
Socialist. Do you have to be a National Socialist to be a revisionist?
Are all the revisionists on this list National Socialists?

You might say we owe
them a Holocaust. We’ve been paying their bill for fifty years, and at some
point we’re finally going to get what we’ve paid for.

So Winston seems to believe that there should be a holocaust. Do others
agree with him? Was there no holocaust only because the National
Socialists lost?

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 8:00 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

[Sorry, I screwed up and sent this twice to BS.ORG but not to the list]
bs-org@c2.net wrote:

> At 17:56 1997-01-23 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >rs@enetis.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Jewish Ritual Murder
> >>
> >> On May 1, 1989, the Oprah Winfrey show had as its guest a person
> >> who, as a young girl, was forced to participate in a ritual in which a
> >> Christian infant was sacrificed. The amazing thing about this guest is
> >> that she was not affiliated with some unknown radical blood letting cult,
> >> but that She was a Jew.

rest of article shortened
> >
> >This sounds about as unreasonable as the hundreds of satanic abuse cases
> >that have sprung up in past years–according to the reports, tens of
> >thousands of infants have been sacrificed to satan by secret cults all
> >over the country. The claimants are nearly always young women with a
> >history of mental problems, too. A good book on the subject is “Satanic
> >Panic: The Creation of a Contemporary Legend” (Open Court, Chicago, Il
> >1993) by Jeffrey S. Victor, a sociologist. Skeptical Inquirer magazine
> >has done a number of articles on this subject (Spring 1994 and Fall 1994
> >come to hand)
> >
> >We see similar statistics in the UFO abduction phenomena–tens of
> >thousands of people disappearing nightly with no trace.
> >
> >You don’t really believe in that stuff, do you?
>
> Why shouldnt we believe hundreds of certified ritual cases?
>
> On the other hand, the Jews still want us to believe the 6-Mill swindle
> and the burning of bodies in pits full of water and… and …
>
But you didn’t cite ‘hundreds of certified cases”–you said this one
girl showed up on the Oprah Winfrey show and said she’d been forced to
kill infants. It fits the “false memory syndrome” pattern completely.

In any case, what does this have to do with Revisionism?

Subject: About Zyklon-B WAS: Der Stuermer
Sent: January 24, 1997, 8:09 AM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
>
> At 13:02 1997-01-23 -0800, Richard J. Green wrote:
> >On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >
> > And Streicher run into problems with the Hitler regime as well. He had
> > enemies on both sides because Hitler (1/4 jewish himself) had many
> > Jews on his paylist and Management and Goverment. Even the company
> > who produced the Cyclon-B poison, IG-Farben, had an important Jew in
> > their management, a Warburg-Banker.
> >
> >Hi I’m sorry I don’t know your name,
>
> You really MUST be new on this list. Just call me joe anonym. Dont you
> know that in certain countries you can get livetime jail for posting
> and saying things like that. And you have jewish informer on every list.
>
> >Can you tell me more about this Cyclon-B poison? What is it and what
> >was it used for?
>
> You really should download these holocaust/cyclon-b files and read and study
> the Germar Rudolf papers, the Lachout papers, the Leuftl papers, the Leuchter
> papers and others. Cyclon-B was and still is used for delousing cloth and
> material and it is deadly and very dangerous because of explosions. Jews have
> “remembered” and were eyewitnesses and haven drawn pictures with guards smoking
> and eating while removing corpses, standing in a blue fog. And next to it ovens
> where flames were shooting out of the chimneys.
>
> But like I said, get the files and then check with us again. A good place
> is to start at http://www.ostara.org/ where you can link to all revisionism
> pages
> and download tons of files
>

In answer to your questions, here are osme facts about Zyklon-B.

Zyklon is the trade name of the Testa Company for hydrocyanic or prussic
acid (HCN). It is composed of one atom of each of the following:
hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen. Zyklon-B was the product used for
delousing at many camps and also for homicidal purposes at
Auschwitz-Birkenau and, in part, at Majdanek.

The following is quoted from the “Directives for the use of Prussic
Acid (Zyklon)” as issued by the Health Institution of the Protectorate
Bohemia and Moravia in Prague. It is contemporary to the reign of the
Nazis in Europe.

BEGIN QUOTE
*Prussic acid is a gas which is generated by evaporation.
Boiling point: 25 degrees Centigrade [point at which the liquid becomes
gas] The liquid evaporates easily.
*Prussic acid is soluble in water.
*Lower limit of combustion: 67.2 g/m^3
*Higher limit of combustion: 480.0 g/m^3
*Normal application approx. 8-10 g/m^3 [for delousing], therefore not
explosive.
*Prussic acid is one of the most powerful poisons. 1 mg per kg of body
weight is sufficient to kill a human being. Women and children are
generally more susceptible than men.
* Poisoning through the skin: Dizziness, headache, vomiting, general
feeling of sickness, etc. All these symptoms pass if one gets out into
the fresh air.
* The following is the lethal doses (in g/m^3) per species:
Mosquitos: 0.25 for 30 minutes
Bugs: 0.25 for 1 hour
Humans: 0.30 instantly
Fleas: 1.25 for 2 hours
Rats and mice: 2.5 for 2 hours
Lice: 5.00 for 2 hours
Cockroaches: 5.00 for 2 hours
END QUOTE

>From this we see that larger concentrations and longer periods of time
are needed to kill lice and cockroaches than humans. Concentrations
adequate for delousing are not explosive.

Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 1:27 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

rs@enetis.net wrote:

> You must be very new to the list. If you recall, you’ve kept the
>subject alive by your questions after one single post on the subject.
>The bulk of the mail has been about the “holocaust” ™.

Hi an anonoymous writer sent me the following:

Here’s a summary of previous email for the two weeks prior to your first
post on the list.

Material from other mailing lists, notably NSWPPgrams and Zundelgrams, is
omitted. Email marked with an asterix concerns the Holocaust or its
“revision,” i.e., the events relating to Jewish persecution 1933-45.

1/ 7 Lemire calls “Winston Smith” a liar
1/ 7 bs-org calls Mr. Abram a faggot who posts Jewish crap
1/ 7 bs-org report on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/ 7 bs-org says circumcision is infecting German people
1/ 7 bs-org satirical piece on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/ 9 litz cut’n’pasted wire story on Butz’s website
1/ 9 bs-org Lueftl news report: acquitted
1/ 9 bs-org Lueftl update (auf deutsch)
1/11 Savage advertisement for a book (post-apocalyptic fiction)
1/12 Wahrheit “SYNAGOGUE LEADER IS KIDDIE PORN CRIMINAL”
1/12 Wahrheit “KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR-FULL NEWS FILES”
1/12 Wahrheit “KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR FLEES TO USA”
1/12 bs-org *purported list of death statistics from war
1/12 bs-org reply re “KIDDIE PORN JEW CANTOR-FULL NEWS FILES”
1/12 Wahrheit ditto
1/13 Lemire more personal attacks on “Winston Smith”
1/13 Wahrheit “Jewish laundering of drug money”
1/13 Wahrheit Israeli war crimes
1/14 bs-org report: “der khasarische Zionist Nahum Goldmann”
1/14 bs-org Nahum Goldmann and the New World Order
1/15 Wahrheit report on Dick Morris (“Those damn jews”)
1/15 bs-org satirical comment on Jews from “Aldebarn”
1/15 Wahrheit repost of 1/14 Zgram
1/15 bs-org The Rothschilds and Rockefellers own all the banks
1/15 chuck44 cut’n’paste news story: Jews and Swiss banks
1/15 bs-org cut’n’paste Michael Hoffman’s homepage (re Butz, Israel)
1/15 bs-org more satire about “Aldebarn”
1/15 bs-org “CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST THE WORLD ZIONISM”
1/16 bs-org “help us expose a jewish left wing terror organisation”
1/17 bs-org Jews should give up Hebron
1/17 freenet *Reply to NSWPP “The Holocaust is Bunk”
1/17 bs-org *The Lachout Documents
1/18 bs-org *Lachout again
1/18 Wahrheit Report on Nazi war criminal prosecution
1/18 Wahrheit “ANTI-ASIAN HATE EMAIL FROM A JEW”
1/18 bs-org It’s good that we can kick Jewish cockroaches off list
1/18 bs-org Satire on Nazi war criminal prosecution
1/20 bs-org Report on Jews wanting Swiss money
1/20 bs-org ditto
1/20 chuck44 ditto
1/21 Wahrheit cut’n’paste from Calgary Sun re Zundel, Natl Geographic
1/21 Wahrheit Human rights abuses in Palestine
1/21 Wahrheit “THE KIDDIE PORN CANTOR”
1/21 freenet Reply to “The Sixth Gender”

I count 4 revisionism-related messages out of 44, total of 9%. That’s
“bulk”?

-End of message-

Comments? Is this group about revisionism really? I’d like to start
debating the holocaust.

Rich

Subject: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 1:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
>
> Re: Debate on the Holocaust,

Questions 1-3 snipped to concentrate on this item:

> Fourthly, where did all the mountains of ash and left over bones disappeared.
> Hardly anything was found. I am sure you dont suggest the Germans used
> Spaceships and carried the leftover to the moon.
>
I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn’t as big
an issue as you may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at Auschwitz
were not cremated. There were also mass graves and, in fact, the
decomposing bodies in the swampy land surrounding Birkenau caused many
problems not the least of which was poisoning the water table (and
thereby, the drinking water for Birkenau and the surrounding area).
However, the land was not swampy in the vicinity of Auschwitz I or III
and there mass graves were utilized.

Consider these facts:
If you assume an average of 1 kg of ash per body, and
assign an arbitrary specific density to ash of 1.0 (i.e.,
equal to water), then 1 kg of ash will occupy 1000 cubic
centimeters, which is equal to a cube that’s 10 cm on a
side. There are 1000 such cubes in a cubic meter (1 cubic
meter of water = 1000 liters = 1 metric tonne), so each
cubic meter would hold the ashes of 1,000 people. 1,000
cubic meters would contain the ashes of 1,000,000 people
(1,000 x 1,000).

A U.S. football field is 50 yds wide by 100 yds long.
That’s close enough to the same area as a 50 meter by 100
meter plot for our purposes, so: 50 x 100 = 5000 sq.
meters = 1 football field. Put 2 football fields
side-by-side, for 10,000 sq. m.

1,000 cubic m. 1 cubic m.
_______________ = __________ = 10 cm depth
10,000 sq. m. 10 sq. m.

2.54 cm = 1 in. Call it 2.5 cm/inch, even– 10 cm = 4 in.,
so you could spread the ashes of 1,000,000 people 4″ deep
over two football fields.

Looking at it from another perspective:
1,000 cubic m. = 10 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or a 10 meter cube.
10 m. is approx. = to 33′, thus you could put the ashes in
a hole in the ground that’s 33′ long, 33′ wide and 33′
deep.

A Cat D-9 operator would have no problem moving such
small amounts–especially over a four-year period– Not
much more than a small rise on the landscape. We also know
that thousands of acres around Auschwitz were “under the
plow,” and ashes make a good soil amendment. Fillip Mueller reports
local farmers would regularly make trips to Auschwitz to pick up
loads of ash to use as soil amemdments.

Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:31 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

At 06:08 1997-01-24 -0800, ralph Johnson wrote:
>Richard J. Green wrote:
> I write
>Rich Graves is back.

Hi,

My name is Rich Green, not Rich Graves.

Regards,

Rich Green

Subject: Wrong Rich was Re: Jewish Ritual Murder on Oprah
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:11 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
>
> At 06:08 1997-01-24 -0800, ralph Johnson wrote:
> >Richard J. Green wrote:
> > I write
> >Rich Graves is back.
>
> dead on …
>
Actually, I think you’re mistaken. I happen to know Rick Graves and
he’s not on this newsgroup any more.

Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:10 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
>
> At 08:18 1997-01-24 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >NSWPP-CSU wrote:
> >>
> >> WHY I BELIEVE IN JEWISH RITUAL MURDER
> >>
> >> -Winston Smith
> >>
> >Out of curiosity, Why did you pick the psudonym of Winston Smith from
> >1984. Mr Smith, as I recall, worked in the Ministry of Truth where his
> >job was to write lies.
>
> May I ask you a equal personal question: Why did you pick the name Annie
> Alpert? This indicates that your ancestry is khasar royalty. Tell us
> about how your grand-grand-grandfathers managed to convert millions of
> wild and uncouth turks and tatars to judasism and get – free will –
> their best piece butchered.
>
Sorry, Mr. Anonymous–no Khazars in MY family tree. We’re a bunch of
midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and Austria. Perhaps
you have me confused with someone or something else?

Since we’re on the subject, though–why did YOU pick the name Anonymous?

Subject: Re: Holocaust Debate, Part 1
Sent: January 24, 1997, 2:56 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, NSWPP-CSU wrote:

>
> A DEBATE ON THE HOLOCAUST
> by Horatius Cocles (horatius_cocles@nile.com)
> with interpolations by Winston Smith

> Nonsense. HCN is MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE ON WARM BLOODED
>ANIMALS (INCLUDING HUMANS) THAN ON LICE ETC. Therefore, the
>period of exposure to HCN is MUCH LONGER in delousing
>clothes than in homicidal gassings (while the concentration
>used was about the same).
>
> [COCLES: The only “nonsense” belongs to Mr. Overman. Zyklon B is a
>slow-acting poison, as any chemistry student can tell you.]

Actually, I am a graduate student in chemistry. HCN is a very dangerous
and fast acting poison. It binds to Cytochrome-C and prevents respiration
at the cellular level. The only reason I can think of why it couldn’t
have been used is that the liquid is very dangerous to store and
transport. They would have needed some kind of solid support such as
gypsum to make it safe to transport and store.

> [COCLES: Physics has never been a strong suit of the “holocaust”
>mountebanks. Mr. Overman, here, completely ignores the cumulative effect
>that repeated use of Zyklon B would have had on the walls of this building.]

What would those be? I don’t understand.

> [COCLES: Notice here how the forensic evidence needed to prove the
>”holocaust” case is: 1.) conveniently missing; and 2.) explained away, in a
>desperate attempt to divert attention from the basic lie.]

So is there really no forensic evidence available?

> [COCLES: Under the direction of the Talmudists, who had the desired
>conclusion written first, and the facts massaged to fit the foregone
>conclusion later.]
>
> [I can’t say how Talmudic the Cracow Institute are, but they are all
>Communists or ex-Communists, else they would not have obtained college
>degrees and high positions under champions of democracy and free inquiry
>like Gomulka and Jaruzelski. The Polish government also has a vested
>interest in maintaining Auschwitz as a source of tourist revenue. I’d say
>the Cracow Report is about as unbiased as the various tame scientists who
>are hired by the tobacco industry to produce learned “reports” denying the
>obvious fact that smoking is bad for your health. – WINSTON SMITH]

What is a Talmudist? Also tell me about this Crakow Institute.

> [I guess that explains all the “No Smoking Signs” in Central
>Prison’s gas chamber as well as the fact that guards and witnesses are
>actually searched for cigarettes and lighters before they enter the secured
>area. – WINSTON SMITH]

But Annie just posted those concentrations. Also, I know that when people
work with HCN in the lab, they worry about toxicity and not explosions.
In fact it’s recommended to let HCN that catches on fire burn because it’s
safer than putting it out.

>”CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics”, or consult any manual dealing with
>toxicity and flammability of chemicals. For HCN, a concentration of 300 ppm
>(parts per million) kills humans within a few minutes, while the minimal
>concentration that can result in an explosion is 56,000 ppm.
>
> [COCLES: No matter how thin you slice it, it’s still baloney.]

I don’t understand. Are these numbers wrong.

> OVERMAN: Claim 5: Judging by the amount and area of the gas
>chambers, and the number of the Krematoria, it was impossible to kill 6
>million people in the time interval in which the concentration camps existed.
>
> No. First, nobody claims that 6 million people died in the
>camps. Many died in the ghettos and in Russia. Estimates of the number of
>people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is
>900,000. It is obvious that the extermination and cremation facilities in
>Auschwitz could take care of such a number.
>
> [COCLES: “Nobody”? World Jewry has been making exactly that claim,
>for so many years, that Mr. Overman must have been living on the dark side
>of the moon since 1945 to have missed it. It is the chief cornerstone of
>their extortion racket.]

I think what they are saying is that some of the poeple were killed by
other methods.

> [That ain’t the way I heard it growing up in middle-class 1960s
>America, Ed. In point of fact, the Six Million Jews gassed by Hitler in the
>concentration camps was EXACTLY what official historians claimed for many
>years until Revisionists started questioning it and you people had to start
>bobbing and weaving. – WINSTON SMITH]

Now this is interesting. Which official historians claim this?

Where are the real revisionist arguments. I assumed that revisionism
was based on better reasoning than what I’ve seen so far.

Best Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Holocaust Debate, Part 2
Sent: January 24, 1997, 3:10 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, NSWPP-CSU wrote:

> Nonsense. Zyklon-B was used because – a) It is extremely useful for
>killing people. b) It was widely available, as it was used for delousing. c)
>It is easy to pack, store and transport.
>
> [COCLES: Two out of three isn’t too bad.]

Huh?

>
> OVERMAN: Claim 8: Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to
>kill people. (This claim is made with regard to the death camp of Treblinka
>- see file with ruling of German courts on this. In other death camps,
>gasoline engines were used. The method of killing was simple – people were
>crammed into the gas chambers, and the exhaust of powerful engines was
>pumped into them).
>
> Nonsense. In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill.
>There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in “The
>Toxicity of Fumes from a diesel Engine Under Four Different Running
>Conditions”, by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957,
>Vol 14, p. 47-55. These researchers ran a few experiments in which various
>animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results.
>
> [COCLES: “Nonsense” must be Overman’s favorite word. Perhaps because
>he writes so much of it?]
>
> [I do not recall ever hearing any responsible Revisionist—or even
>any irresponsible one—claim that diesel fumes won’t kill people. Has
>anyone ever actually made such a claim? – WINSTON SMITH]

Yes, I believe that Berg made such a claim.

> [Again, this is an interesting digression. I completely accept that
>diesel fuel in an enclosed space will kill animals and people, as does any
>person of common sense. Now, I repeat—WHO EXACTLY AMONG REVISIONISTS has
>ever, in fact, CLAIMED that diesel won’t kill? The whole subject seems oddly
>specious and contrived to me. – WINSTON SMITH]

Berg.

> [Overman spends more time on the “diesel will kill” topic than
>almost any other—again, suspiciously in my mind. Is he in fact responding
>to assertions which have never been made by our side? Can someone enlighten
>me? Like I said, I don’t keep up with Revisionism as much as I should. –
>WINSTON SMITH]

So it seems that Winston believes that the methods said to have been used
at Treblinka would have worked. Does everyone on the list agree that
diesel engines can kill?

> OVERMAN: No, the gas chambers that stood in Auschwitz were designed
>to kill, and did kill, hundreds of thousands of “undesirable” human beings.
>
> [They were in fact undesirable, but that’s another story. – WINSTON
>SMITH]

I don’t understand. Do you mean that they should have been killed even
though they weren’t. If they should have been killed why did the National
Socialists not do it? Were they incompetent?

Regards,

Rich

Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:47 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

>The ovens dont usually burn everything and mountains of bones must
>then be around somewhere. The never have been any mass graves found, not
>to my knowledge.

Hi Joe, you appear to have made an error on this point. A friend writes:

In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow,
was commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry
out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the
locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop
bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and
hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes and the
diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
Department of the Museum (Franciszek Piper, _Anatomy_, p. 179n).

>This still does not solve the main problem, where did the millions of
>tons of fuel come from? No records have been found but Jurgen Graf found
>300 pages on the subject of camp-gardens, bookkeeping and ordered
>fertiliser. Now why would the SS order fertiliser if they could have used
>the camp ashes.

I’m just trying to understand your argument here. Are you saying that no
fuel was ever ordered? If not, how much fuel do you claim was ordered and
how much do you claim was necessary?

Thanks,

Rich

Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:50 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:

rest of note snipped so I can respond the this point:

> This still does not solve the main problem, where did the millions of
> tons of fuel come from? No records have been found but Jurgen Graf found
> 300 pages on the subject of camp-gardens, bookkeeping and ordered
> fertiliser. Now why would the SS order fertiliser if they could have used
> the camp ashes.

You don’t know much about gardening, do you? Ash is an excellent soil
amendment which ads akalinity to acidic soil. Swampy ground, in fact,
is usually too acidic and needs a little akalinity. Ash is not,
however, a complete fertilizer–you also need nitrogen to make the soil
produce crops.

It might be a good idea for you to do a little research before you draw
conclusions. . .

> We believe you when you come up with hard evidence and not story teller
> and liar like Wiesel or Wiesenthal.

Sorry–Did I miss something? I don’t recall citing Simon Wiesenthal or
Elie Wiesel as sources for this discussion.

Subject: Re: Why I Believe In Jewish Ritual Murder
Sent: January 24, 1997, 5:56 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >> May I ask you a equal personal question: Why did you pick the name Annie
> >> Alpert? This indicates that your ancestry is khasar royalty. Tell us
> >> about how your grand-grand-grandfathers managed to convert millions of
> >> wild and uncouth turks and tatars to judasism and get – free will –
> >> their best piece butchered.
> >>
> >Sorry, Mr. Anonymous–no Khazars in MY family tree. We’re a bunch of
> >midwestern Missouri-synod Lutherans from Sweden and Austria. Perhaps
> >you have me confused with someone or something else?
>
> No confusion, search back far enough in yr familiy tree and you find a
> Khasar family-member called Alpert, Halpern or such. Be glad, because
> it means there is Royal blood in you. Lutherans, Sweden, Austria or such
> does not mean a thing – and we both know it.

Oh, I get it–you think I’m Jewish! Sorry. Not the case. If you think
about for a few minutes, I think you can figure out where you went
wrong. It’s very simple really.
>
> >Since we’re on the subject, though–why did YOU pick the name Anonymous?
>
> Since the Zionists have taken over the media and its not safe any more
> to speak the truth. Well, at least for the time beeing. It will change soon,
> I hope.

How sad to live in fear!

Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 6:49 PM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 bs-org@c2.net wrote:

>>Hi Joe, you appear to have made an error on this point. A friend writes:
>>
>> In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow,
>> was commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry
>> out geological tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the
>> locations of incineration pits and pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop
>> bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human ashes, bones, and
>> hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes and the
>> diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
>> Department of the Museum (Franciszek Piper, _Anatomy_, p. 179n).
>
>Thanks for the info, I get this checked. Can you post this documentation
>like scan it and send us the info.

Sorry, I don’t have a scanner. I’m sure you know that this book is
available at a library, however. So you might consider looking there.

>>I’m just trying to understand your argument here. Are you saying that no
>>fuel was ever ordered? If not, how much fuel do you claim was ordered and
>>how much do you claim was necessary?
>
>Again, in all my research I found no original copies of the Reichsbahn
>documents that coal or wood was ordered and delivered in such quantity
>needed. Zundel has made some calculation on how much would be needed and
>how many trains full of fuel would have to be delivered. It was about 1 or
>more Million tons as far as I remember. If you have any proof of these
>deliveries, pls send it and then we would believe you.

So what you are saying is that you personally have seen no records for the
delivery of 1 or more million tons of coal and wood, but that you believe
this amount would be needed.

Your estimate seems rather large to me. 1 million tons weighs 2 billion
pounds. 1 million people weigh about 150 million pounds. That seems like
2000 pounds of coal per person. That seems like an overestimate to me.
Can you please clarify?

Thanks,

Rich

Subject: Re: Ashes WAS Re: Rev: Debate on the Holocaust
Sent: January 24, 1997, 7:48 PM
From: Annie Alpert, miasaura@ccnis.net

bs-org@c2.net wrote:
>
> At 13:56 1997-01-24 -0500, Annie Alpert wrote:
> >bs-org@c2.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Re: Debate on the Holocaust,
> >
> >Questions 1-3 snipped to concentrate on this item:
> >
> >> Fourthly, where did all the mountains of ash and left over bones disappeared.
> >> Hardly anything was found. I am sure you dont suggest the Germans used
> >> Spaceships and carried the leftover to the moon.
> >>
> >I happen to have done some research on this topic, and this isn’t as big
> >an issue as you may think. First of all, not ALL bodies at Auschwitz
> >were not cremated. There were also mass graves and, in fact, the
> >decomposing bodies in the swampy land surrounding Birkenau caused many
> >problems not the least of which was poisoning the water table (and
> >thereby, the drinking water for Birkenau and the surrounding area).
> >However, the land was not swampy in the vicinity of Auschwitz I or III
> >and there mass graves were utilized.
>
> We have never seen any of substantial size, not like the massgraves
> the soviets left behind.

I belleve you are mistaken. Large graves were found.

>
> >Consider these facts:
> >If you assume an average of 1 kg of ash per body, and
> > assign an arbitrary specific density to ash of 1.0 (i.e.,
> > equal to water), then 1 kg of ash will occupy 1000 cubic
> > centimeters, which is equal to a cube that’s 10 cm on a
> > side. There are 1000 such cubes in a cubic meter (1 cubic
> > meter of water = 1000 liters = 1 metric tonne), so each
> > cubic meter would hold the ashes of 1,000 people. 1,000
> > cubic meters would contain the ashes of 1,000,000 people
> > (1,000 x 1,000).
> >
> >A U.S. football field is 50 yds wide by 100 yds long.
> > That’s close enough to the same area as a 50 meter by 100
> > meter plot for our purposes, so: 50 x 100 = 5000 sq.
> > meters = 1 football field. Put 2 football fields
> > side-by-side, for 10,000 sq. m.
> >
> > 1,000 cubic m. 1 cubic m.
> > _______________ = __________ = 10 cm depth
> > 10,000 sq. m. 10 sq. m.
> >
> > 2.54 cm = 1 in. Call it 2.5 cm/inch, even– 10 cm = 4 in.,
> > so you could spread the ashes of 1,000,000 people 4″ deep
> > over two football fields.
>
> This calculations may be OK theoretical, but even 50 Years later, you would
> find chemical evidence and bones dont rot in 50 Years. And what about the
> allied air photos in infrared, this ash would show up in any photo, even
> Years later, the field would have a different temperature. And since I
> believe that the law of nature work equally for Jews and Nazis, you have to
> come up with better arguments than that.
>
> >Looking at it from another perspective:
> > 1,000 cubic m. = 10 m. x 10 m. x 10 m., or a 10 meter cube.
> > 10 m. is approx. = to 33′, thus you could put the ashes in
> > a hole in the ground that’s 33′ long, 33′ wide and 33′
> > deep.
> >
> >A Cat D-9 operator would have no problem moving such
> > small amounts–especially over a four-year period– Not
> > much more than a small rise on the landscape. We also know
> > that thousands of acres around Auschwitz were “under the
> > plow,” and ashes make a good soil amendment. Fillip Mueller reports
> > local farmers would regularly make trips to Auschwitz to pick up
> > loads of ash to use as soil amemdments.
>
> The ovens dont usually burn everything and mountains of bones must
> then be around somewhere. The never have been any mass graves found, not
> to my knowledge.

Actually, I overestimated the amount of ash left after cremation–I’m
told (and the IHR also claims) that the amount is about equal to a
shoe-box full. Also, there were a number of shipments of ash-sifters
made to Auschwitz (you check this if you like). Sonderkommandos have
reported sifting the ashes for large bone parts to be put back into the
ovens.

It is quite easy to get rid of ash. It was dumped in fields and in
rivers. Ash is not toxic; it can be dumped anywhere. Just compute how
many shoeboxes fit into a large truck. Tens of thousands. What’s the
problem with dumping truckload after truckload into rivers or fields?
Auschwitz is built at a junction of rivers, with a large marsh nearby.
In fact, one aerial photograph taken during the war shows large
quantities of what may be human ash in a marsh just outside the
extermination camp facility.

For comparison, consider that nobody denies that Stalin and Mao killed
tens of
millions of people by various means. No “revisionists” are asking where
the piles of
those bodies are. They focus only on the Nazi Holocaust. Why is this?

Subject: Re: He Has A Point, You Know
Sent: January 25, 1997, 2:45 AM
From: Richard J. Green, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU

Winston Smith writes:

>In my opinion there is a very strong possibility that “Richard
>Green” is in fact Rich Graves and his whole thread is a Nizkor project,
>possibly with the object of taking over these lists and transforming them
>into Nizkor playgroups, since real Revisionists no longer waste their time
>in Nizkor’s Usenet sand boxes listening to these kikes’ dirty little mouths.
>The appearance of Nizkor playgroup habitue and cyber-yenta Annie Alpert
>tends to confirm this. However, since I have no proof, I offer that as
>personal opinion only based on a certain similarity of style between “Green”
>and Graves in his occasional calmer, compos mentis modes.

Hi Winston,

No I’m not Rich Graves. My name is Rich Green. I’m surprised that you
would make this accusation when it was you who wrote:

>”National Socialist Forum,” December 22, 1996:
>
> Dear General Secretary:
>
> I find this accusation that you “make up” your letters to be a
> very interesting one. There is a recent parallel: you mentioned in
> “Slippage of Sanity” that nowadays whenever anyone attempts to
> post to any of the Nizkor newsgroups (or “playgroups” as they so
> aptly call them), they are immediately accused by the Nizcrew of
> being either Matt Giwer or Mike Huber operating under a false
> e-mail address. This happened to me once, and when I tried to
> argue with the creepy little kikes who “moderate” the groups I was
> simply banned from posting. (The usual harassment of my server
> followed.)
>
> Isn’t it interesting that your opponents within the “Movement” are
> using exactly the same tactics against you that the Jews at Nizkor
> are using, in fact following in their footsteps with those very
> tactics? Suspicious timing, don’t you think?
>
> Now, shall I sign my name? Oh, hell, let’s keep the damned fools
> guessing!
>
> -XXXXXX
>
> [There is such a thing as taking paranoia too far. You are right;
> the Usual Suspects’ tactics are an exact mirror of Nizkor’s.
> […] – WS]
>

By the way, someone seems to have accidentally dropped me from this list.
I’m sure that it was an accident as I’ve been assured by Joe that this
list is about open debate on the Holocaust without fear of censorship.
If I’m wrong and that’s not the purpose of this list, please let me know.

So, I’m looking forward to learning more about revisionist arguments.

Best Regards,

Rich

Subject: Annie Alpert’s Lament
Sent: 1/30/97 6:28 PM
Received: 1/30/97 6:58 PM
From: NSWPP-CSU, nswpp@earthlink.net
To: nswpp@earthlink.net

ANNIE ALPERT’S LAMENT

The reason that I and other serious Revisionists, National
Socialists, and racial nationalists have stopped posting to
revisionism@c2.net was because it was clear that the list was targeted for
transformation into another Nizkor playgroup, wherein personal abuse and
vilification of anyone who opposes the Jewish agenda for any reason was and
is the order of the day, and where rational discourse remains impossible.

I note that the same thing appears to have happened to alt.skinheads
where, in addition to the usual Nizkor dreck, we find such fascinating
“threads” as “I Raped A Carrot” and such profoundly rational and mature
topics as “Kill Nazi Pig-Fuckers”. I do not believe that anyone can or
should be faulted for refusal to be associated with this kind of lunacy.
Responding to dysfunctionals only encourages them. I automatically post
NSNet to alt.skinheads in case some legit Skins wander in, but I don’t
bother to read it. I can imagine what fun the Nizkooks are having with NSNet.

The purpose of Nizkor is not, nor has it ever been, to engage in any
debate about the Holocaust. The purpose of Nizkor is to silence those who
oppose The Agenda, and while Annie Alpert was making a notable effort to put
a “civil” face on a very uncivil organization (for the time being), not all
of us are amnesiacs. Like the original Winston Smith, I possess an
inconvenient memory that actually reaches beyond last week.

I remember forged e-mails in my name being spewed all over the
globe, e-mails later found to have emanated from the environs of Stanford
University. I remember the massive spam attack on Webcom in December, an
event which seems to have vanished down the memory hole in true Orwellian
fashion, but which before it disappeared from view in the media was found to
have come from a certain server in British Columbia. I remember Rich Graves’
bizarre attempts to pump me for information by e-mail followed by a series
of hysterical attacks on his part culminating in a threat to sue me. I
remember the utterly disgraceful and revolting persecution of Matt Giwer,
Mike Huber, and others. I remember vicious, vile insults and obscene abuse
being hurled at Ingrid Rimland, who despite her occasional eccentricities
has never responded in kind, but has demonstrated an almost saintly grace
and courtesy under incredible provocation which ought to make these scum
hide their faces in shame. I remember the demented e-mails I used to receive
from Andrew Mathis with regularity, saying things that would make a dog
vomit. Even if Nizkor was interested in “debate”, I no longer am so far as
they are concerned. I refuse to accord people like this the courtesy of
treating them as equals. They are not fit to appear in human society.

Sorry, Annie. You’ll have to find someone else to play with. I’ve
got better things to do with my computer, like playing solitaire.

This is for sure my last post. Annie and her buddies are going down
the memory hole along with times 3.12.83 bb doubleplusungood dayorder and
Comrade Withers. They are unpersons.

But then, they always were.

-Winston Smith

“This destiny does not tire, nor can it be broken, and its mantle of
strength descends upon those in its service.” – Francis Parker Yockey, IMPERIUM

Further info: http://www.nswpp.org