Nina, 19, arrived in Israel from Minsk, Belorus, on a tourist visa in
She knew she was going to work in the sex industry, but was
promised good conditions. After working for three months at a brothel
in Haifa, Nina was kidnapped at gunpoint, sold for $1000 at a public
auction, beaten and raped. Nina was arrested during a police raid in
March 1999. She was detained awaiting deportation. But despite
holding
a valid passport and flight ticket she was not allowed to leave
Israel. The Haifa region public prosecutor had issued a holding order
to ensure her testimony against the three men who had kidnapped and
raped her. Nina was finally expelled from Israel in June 1999 after
being held in custody for two months. Government officials
interviewed
by the press denied all responsibility for Nina’s imprisonment.
(Source: Amnesty International, Report on human rights abuses of
women
trafficked from countries of the former Soviet Union into Israel’s
sex
industry, 2000.)
*
In 1989, dozens of families from the Abu Jardoud tribe were evicted
from their homes in the western Negev on the pretext that the lands
they occupied were restricted for military use. The families were
relocated to an area called Ramat Hovav, close to an industrial waste
dump which led to diseases among the residents. Eventually the
Israeli
authorities temporarily relocated the families to an existing
population concentration, with the promise that an agricultural
settlement would be established for them. The site of the proposed
village is unknown, and the promise has yet to be fulfilled. (Source:
online at http://assoc40.org/english/index.htm)
*
Jacqueline Barukh lives with her five children in the Yod-Aleph
neighbourhood of Beer-Sheva. Her husband, Moshe, works in the local
supermarket. Jacqueline is proud that her children always have enough
to eat; there are plenty of families in the nearby Daled
neighbourhood
– where the Barukh family used to live – whose children survive on
bread, cucumbers and white cheese. The Barukh’s do not consider
themselves poor, yet some of the children sleep on roll-out beds in
the living room, Jacqueline has not bought new clothes for years, and
every day is a financial struggle. In 1994, the Barukh’s monthly
income was 2400 shekels (then about $800), placing them below the
poverty line. One researcher at the National Insurance Institute
claims that although the Barukh’s conditions are far from those of
Third World poverty, the family forms part of a permanent, definable
underclass that struggles on from day to day in crowded apartments,
on
recycled clothes and on watered down soup on Shabbat, living in areas
where drug abuse and petty crime are widespread. (Source: Jerusalem
Report, April 7, 1994.)
* * *
In the Declaration of Independence the founders of Israel proclaimed
that the new State would “…foster the development of the country
for
the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom,
justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will
ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its
inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex….” Yet in the
year
2000, women are being bought and sold for the sex industry in a new
slave trade, Bedouin citizens of Israel are forcibly evicted from
their homes and land, and thousands of Israelis live below the
poverty
line while the elite benefit from economic growth and prosperity.
Israel is wracked by inequality and oppression based on gender,
ethnicity, socioeconomic background, nationality, religion and more.
Below are highlighted three examples of social injustice in Israel
today.
The gap between rich and poor
Economic inequality in Israel is growing. Israel, a social report,
1998, published by the Adva Center for Equality and Social Justice in
Israel, reports that in 1988 the top decile of the population
received
8.4 times the share of the bottom decile. By 1996, the figure had
increased to 10.6. Top salaries in Israel are high and rising. The
average monthly salary of a manager in a Stock Exchange listed
company
was NIS 96,000 (about $24,000) in 1997. 259 managers had salaries of
over NIS 100,000 a month, and 54 earned over NIS 200,000. At the same
time, while top managers’ salaries are on a par with those in Europe
and the US, Israeli industrial workers’ wages have been on the
decline. Most Israeli workers earn less than the national average
wage
(NIS 5899 in 1998); in 1995, over 65% earned less. Moreover, the
proportion of Israelis below the poverty line is on the increase,
from
23.8% in 1979 to 30.3% in 1996. One third of all Israeli children
live
in poverty.
The status of women
Israel boasts some of the world’s most progressive legislation
guaranteeing equal rights and opportunities to women, especially in
the workplace. But the reality is quite different. The Adva center
reports that on average, women’s monthly wages are 60% of men’s. Some
of this difference is due to the fact that more women than men work
part time. But even when calculations are based on an hourly wage,
women earn 80% of men’s average salaries. In addition, many women are
prevented from working full time by the lack of childcare provision.
Day care centers only serve about one-fifth of children under the age
of four. Kindergartens only operate in the morning, leaving the
problem of what to do with the children in the afternoon. The
situation with primary schools is the same. Prime Minister Ehud
Barak’s 1999 election campaign promised the introduction of a long
school day, but so far this has not been implemented.
Israeli women are victims of endemic violence, both domestic and
sexual. In an Israel Women’s Network report on the status of women in
Israel, Shoshana London Sappir records that in the first three months
of 2000, six Israeli women were murdered by their partners. In 1999,
17 women and six children were killed in domestic violence. One third
of Israeli women will be a victim of sexual assault or rape in their
lifetimes. A rape is committed every 12 hours and other types of
sexual assault every four hours. A network of voluntary organisations
exists to deal with these problems on the therapeutic and educational
fronts, but meagre government resources are devoted to the problem.
Israeli Arabs
Israeli Arabs (plus Druze, Circassians and other non-Jewish ethnic
groups) make up one fifth of the Israeli population. They are
guaranteed equal rights by the Declaration of Independence.
Nevertheless, they are victims of institutionalised discrimination.
Arab towns and villages receive lower levels of government funding
than their Jewish equivalents. Arab citizens earn lower salaries than
their Jewish counterparts; according to the Adva report, Ashkenazi
Jewish employees’ pay is on average twice as much as Arab wage
earners. There are no signs that this gap is closing; the inequality
remains stable. Inequality also exists in education. Among the
general
population only 37.7% of students matriculate from high school (a
precondition for progressing to higher education), and the figure in
the Arab community is even lower: 21.9%. And while only 6% of
students
in affluent Jewish localities drop out before completing the 12^th
grade, in Arab areas the rate is 42%. Finally, the Arab infant
mortality rate remains double that of Jews.
In addition to socio-economic inequality, Israeli Arabs face another
problem: one of identity. They live in a state whose definition as a
Jewish State excludes or alienates them. The conflict between Israel
and the Palestinians (with whom most Israeli Arabs identify)
exacerbates these problems, leaving Israeli Arabs in a state of
internal conflict. Azmi Bishara, a leading Arab Member of Knesset,
takes the following position on the status of Israeli Arabs: “I want
Israel to be a society which officially recognises itself as a state
which contains two cultures, a Jewish majority culture, the other, a
Palestinian national minority living inside a Jewish majority,
sharing
citizenship…. The state itself may have the cultural character of
the majority, but its relationship to citizens must be regulated by
citizenship and not by their religious identity – in short, I want
Israel to become a state of all its citizens.” (Tikkun Magazine, 3:4)
These inequalities between rich and poor, men and women and Jews and
Arabs by no means paints a full picture of social injustice in
Israel,
a picture that includes discrimination against disabled people, gays
and lesbians, foreign workers, Mizrahi (oriental) Jews and more.
* * *
How can the dissonance between the lofty ideals of the Declaration of
Independence and the complicated Israeli reality be explained?
Tensions in Zionist ideology
The Zionist movement was always a broad coalition. It contained
Marxists, utopian socialists, liberals, capitalists, orthodox
factions
(both left wing and bourgeois), right-wing nationalists,
internationalists and more. One of the functions of the Declaration
of
Independence was to recruit the support of all these groups for the
proclamation of the State, to paper over the cracks between them and
to provide a united statement of principles for the nascent state.
Fittingly, the Declaration is full of competing visions of Israeli
society.
Particularism vs Universalism
How does the principle of the “natural right of the Jewish people to
be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own
sovereign State” gel with the promise to “foster the development of
the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants”? The Declaration
is unclear about the position of non-Jews in the new state. Were they
to be equal partners, fully integrated into Israeli society, or were
they to be granted basic political freedoms but kept at arms’ length?
Could Israeli Arabs and other non-Jews expect full equality or not?
Liberalism vs Socialism
The Declaration alludes to the prophetic ideals of freedom, justice
and peace, and announces that the new state “will ensure complete
equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants
irrespective of religion, race or sex.” Fine sentiments, but what do
they mean in practice? Freedom can mean almost anything, from basic
human rights, to political freedom and democracy, to freedom from
poverty and oppression. In the same way, justice can simply mean the
rule of law, or it can mean the absence of exploitation and
inequality. The Declaration of Independence hides a controversy
between an egalitarian, socialist conception of the Jewish state and
a
liberal, capitalist one. The word “equality” appears only in
connection to rights. Equal rights is not the same thing as equality
of income or even equality of opportunity. A world view based on
equal
rights can certainly accommodate poverty and inequality.
Normalisation vs A Light to the Nations
Despite the tensions hidden behind the Declaration of Independence,
the Zionist movement and the leadership of the early State was
dominated by one political force: socialist Zionism in the form of
Ben
Gurion’s Mapai party. Ben Gurion’s ideology can be summed up in one
phrase: “from class to nation.” The State of Israel was to be an
egalitarian, socialist society in which the means of production would
be in the hands of the workers. The Jewish working class would be
identical with the Jewish nation and the State of Israel would be a
model, egalitarian workers’ society, free from class conflict and
exploitation, fulfilling the biblical prophecy that Israel would
become a Light to the Nations.
Yet Ben Gurion’s socialist Zionist vision was also ambiguous. It was
built on a tension between two key concepts. On the one hand, the
“normalisation of the Jewish people” and on the other the idea that
the State of Israel would be a “Light to the Nations.” But
normalisation was interpreted in two different ways. The first was
that the Jewish people’s economic and social structure had been
distorted by its life in galut (exile or diaspora) and that Zionism’s
job was to repair the damage. Where once Jews had been money lenders,
inn keepers, landlords’ agents, lawyers and accountants, now they
would become farmers, labourers, carpenters and engineers. The Jewish
people would be reconnected with creative labour and in so doing
would
become economically and culturally independent.
But normalisation was interpreted in another way, too. Zionists often
dreamed of a time when Jewish criminals would be arrested by the
Jewish police and put into Jewish prisons. In other words, the goal
of
Zionism was not to create a model state, but to turn the Jews into a
“people like any other.” Normalisation meant an escape from the Jews’
uniqueness and from their particular destiny. The Jews would be just
like everyone else. If other countries were wracked by inequality,
exploitation, selfishness and injustice, there was no reason to
expect
otherwise from the Jews.
In today’s Israel, all these ideological tensions – over the place of
non-Jews and particularly Arabs in Israeli society and culture,
whether Israel should follow a free-market or a social-democratic
model for its development, and around the key issue of whether
Israeli
society has any special moral responsibility for creating social
justice or not – are still playing themselves out.
The myth of utopia
Israeli collective memory portrays an idealistic past, of a united,
egalitarian community, living out its ideals and committed to the
common good. All that in stark contrast to today’s conflict-riven,
unequal, materialistic society. But did Israel ever live up to these
ideals? Although Israeli society certainly has become more unequal in
recent years, the utopian view of Zionist history masks the fact that
Israeli society has always been marked by oppression – of women, of
Arab citizens, of disabled people, of gays and lesbians, and of
mizrahi Jews.
Part of the oppression of marginalised groups has been their
silencing
and their exclusion from public discourse. The vacuum was filled by
rhetoric of “equality for all”, “the melting pot”, the “ingathering
of
the exiles” and the rights of all Israelis, Jews and Arabs alike.
This
hegemonic rhetoric blinded many Israelis to the injustices being
perpetrated in their midst.
The recent flowering of pressure groups campaigning against sexism,
racism and homophobia, and the corresponding explosion of stories
about marginalised groups does not necessarily attest to an increase
in social injustice. In fact, the opposite may be true. The rising
awareness of inequality and oppression indicates that perhaps, at
long
last, Israelis are abandoning the myths and the conspiracy of
silence,
and are starting to deal with the task ahead: creating social justice
in Israel.
_________________________________________________________________
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:04 EST 2001
Article: 259108 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: ISRAEL CONFIRMS : Haggai and Irit Katriel
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I often speak of Israel as populated by monsters, and so it is.
But there are a few, a tiny number actually, of real peace activists.
Irit Katriel is a real trooper.
RLA
ISRAEL CONFIRMS
Haggai and Irit Katriel
March 3, 2001
Hidden from the eyes of the world, obscured by a smokescreen of endless
internal-political scandals-petite, reported as “exchanges of fire” and
“security engineering work”, the Israeli army’s bulldozers and tanks
have
been working for months on evacuating vast areas of the Gaza strip from
their Palestinian inhabitants. The affected areas are primarily those
which
are adjacent to the Israeli settlements and army posts or along the
roads
leading to them.
For the first time today, an Israeli source confirms what anyone who has
been following the events already knows. Israeli channel 1 evening news:
“The IDF is acting to capture territories as a strategic aim in the
present
conflict. This was revealed by a senior military source. According to
the
source, the IDF is capturing territories inside zone A, in order to
improve
positions and also to make clear to the Palestinians that there is a
territorial price to the conflict”. (translated from Hebrew).
The Jerusalem post’s website provided some more information: “The
[senior
IDF] source said that the IDF was working to widen the margins of the
settlement blocs in the Gaza Strip in order to bolster settlers’
security
and send a message to the Palestinians that violence on their part will
yield only losses.”
*
“Widen the margins of the settlements”, says the clean language of the
propagandist. In layman’s terms, this is called expulsion, evacuation,
ethnic cleansing.
The early stages of this spree of destruction and dispossession were
surveyed
in (1). Houses were shelled and bulldozed, at times without prior notice
and with the inhabitants fleeing in horror into a dark night and an even
darker future in makeshift refugee camps of red cross tents.
Agricultural
land was flattened by the 1000s of dunoms, leaving their owners without
their property and source of income.
“Israeli shelling has left a total of about 4,000 people homeless; and
about
500 homes have been completely razed”, said Ha’aretz on Jan 30th.
Numerous recent reports from Gaza all tell the same story. On Feb 19,
the
Palestinian Monitor Organization reported that “The situation in Gaza is
dreadful, and worsening by degrees. […] the Israeli army has taken
control
of Palestinian farmland and orchards that lie alongside roads that are
used
by settlers, and land that surrounds military bases and settlements.
[…]
the Israeli military has also destroyed everything on the land. The
depth of
this destruction needs to be seen to be believed. All vegetation
including
olive and citrus trees, banana plants, mango groves, agricultural sheds,
vegetable greenhouses, and palm trees along the roadside from Gaza City
to
Khan Younis has been decimated.”
Alison Weir, a particularly brave American activist who is visiting Gaza
and
reporting what she sees whenever she reaches an internet cafe or a place
to
hook up her modem, wrote on Feb 18th: “I also visited two tiny
encampments of
women and children living in tents on the dirt. They were people who
used to
have homes in Khan Younis, but the Israelis decided to make a road
through
them […] so they bulldozed their homes and their date palms and orange
groves. […] And the people are living in the dirt, and show me a
bent-up
aluminum wash pan that they retrieved from where their homes had been —
everything else, they said, was ‘under the land'”.
The Mawasi district, a Palestinian enclave within the Israeli settlement
block
of the southern part of the Gaza strip, received some extra attention
>from the
Israeli left when residents of 22 of its houses received eviction orders
on
February 11 (they were among the first to notice that the relative quiet
of the
Israeli-elections era was over). We protested, and the military denied
having
issued the eviction orders.
The next day, Reuters reported that 40 Palestinians were injured in a
six-hour
battle in Khan Younis. One of the Palestinian fighters was reported to
have
said that they were trying to protect Mawasi from the Israeli
bulldozers.
Alison Weir wrote on Feb 28: “Yesterday I visited Mawasi, a lovely
agricultural
district along the beach that Israel has closed off and is steadily
destroying.
I saw 100 year-old palm trees they had bulldozed, acres and acres of
palms,
olive trees, vegetables, that Israel leveled. I talked to farmers whose
families
have worked on this land for untold generations, who now have no
livelihoods,
their fields destroyed and confiscated. I was lucky to even get in to
Mawasi.
It’s been closed off, and everyone warned me that it was dangerous. The
grandmother where I was staying was so upset at the thought that she
used
what English she could: ‘No go! No go Mawasi!’ ”
*
This is the reality behind what the “senior IDF source” calls “widening
of
the margins of the settlements”. And the media is silent, and the world
is
silent, and ‘security needs’ justify every evil. And the comments of
this
“senior IDF source” will most likely fade away, without protest, and
without
raising a public debate in Israel or in any part of the “enlightened
West”,
which is reading in its newspapers that Israel REALLY is about to lose
patience and start fighting back.
———————–
(1) See “Palestinian refugees; Israeli hypocricy” of Dec 23, on
IMC/Israel
at http://www.indymedia.org.il .
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:04 EST 2001
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I am not an antisemite. I oppose your brutal oppression of the Palestinians.
I suppose you will deny that you oppress them or that you are brutal
to them too. You are a real piece of work. Obviously bright, and
obviously indoctrinated with the ideology, and determined to oppress.
RLA
Omri Schwarz wrote:
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Omri Schwarz wrote:
> >
> > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
> > >
> > > > Yes, Omri, Israel is the aggressor now as the Jews of the Yishuv were
> > > > the aggressors before 1948.
> > > > You know that. The Zionists came to Palestine with the intention of
> > >
> > > Name a single incident in which Jews
> > > were the aggressors, prior to 1947.
> > >
> > > Name a single one prior to 1929.
> > >
> > > You can’t.
> > >
> > > Because the Pallies were the aggressors,
> > > starting with the Good Friday massacre of 1920.
> >
> > Omri, seriously, you know that the Jews came to Palestine
> > with the design of supplanting the Palestinians in their own
> > country. You cannot deny this. Nor can you deny that
>
> No, Roger, I have read 10 times more books on the issue
> than you. It is quite the contrary.
>
> Further more, only an antisemite,
> like yourself, will equate buying land,
> which is what my tribe did, with rape and
> murder, which is what the Pallies doid.
>
> > the Palestinians soon figured this out. Further, if the Palestinians
>
> Actually, Roger, the Palestinians
> only started the violence after
> a rumor spread that Jews were planning to
> destroy the Al Aqsah mosque.
>
> —
> Omri Schwarz —
> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the
> patient.” — R.F. Farr
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:04 EST 2001
Article: 259143 of soc.culture.canada
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http://www.jta.org/story.asp?story=7149
Paris Jews worry about image after some are accused in scandal
By Joshua Schuster
PARIS, March 5 (JTA) – A major scandal has hit the heart of Paris’
heavily
Jewish clothing district.
The affair’s ingredients include a pyramid scheme, $80 million, 12 of
the
124 accused fleeing to Israel, charges of anti-Semitism and one of
France’s
most popular films.
The defendants, a majority of whom are Jews from Morocco and Tunisia who
came to France in the 1960s immigration wave, are store owners accused
of
having swindled French banks for loans to buy non-existent goods.
The affair blew open last month when a vast pyramid scheme, which some
suggest has been going on for decades, came tumbling down after a series
of
bank loans were defaulted.
Several store owners who sell a variety of major fashion brands in small
boutiques had sought loans to stabilize their faltering businesses, but
were told they could secure the loans only if they proved business would
pick up.
So the owners turned to friends and family who form a tight-knit
community
in Sentier, an area that covers approximately 10 square blocks in the
center of Paris. To obtain the bank loan, another store would sign a
contract agreeing to buy a large amount of stock over a certain time.
But it turns out that the majority of stores who signed such contracts
had
no intention of purchasing the goods. When it came time to settle the
loan,
the next store would search out a new loan from another bank and a new
contract from another store. The banks are also accused of knowingly
aiding
the illegal process.
The scheme ended when police began searching for shop owners who had not
paid their loans, prompting several of the accused to flee for other
countries, including Switzerland and Israel.
But the case took on a different tone as the French government accused
Israel of knowingly harboring fugitives, despite having signed an
international extradition pact.
“By intentionally pursing this policy, Israel removed itself from the
family of nations,” said French prosecutor Francois Franchy.
Israel responded that it had not received an official demand for
extradition.
While the French government has sent documents requesting the capture of
the accused, it failed to include proper evidence of their guilt
according
to international standards, Israeli officials said.
“They have no one to blame but themselves,” said Irit Kahn, director of
the
international department at the Israeli Justice Ministry, noting that
France has failed to resubmit their request after having been informed
of
the proper guidelines.
However, the French prosecutor has suggested during the trial that
Israel
has willingly harbored fugitives in the past, noting that Israel is on a
blacklist of 15 countries that are not cooperating in the war against
money
laundering.
Some French media outlets have chosen to press this aspect of the trial,
with one television channel broadcasting a program titled “Israel – A
Criminal’s Paradise.”
This immediately raised outrage in the French Jewish community, which
claimed that such programs perpetuated anti-Semitism.
“They are putting all Jews in the same sack,” said one Sentier store
owner
who spoke on condition that his name not be published.
However, others in the Jewish community said they feel that Israel
should
extend more cooperation in the case.
“In principle, I think that Israel has caused itself damage by harboring
criminals on its soil,” said William Goldnadel, a well-respected
French-Jewish attorney who represents one of the suspects in the case.
“They are not good citizens and do not contribute” to Israel’s image.
The trial opened last week without the 12 who are alleged to have fled
to
Israel. But the tribunal involved such a huge number of defendants,
lawyers
and their families that Paris could not find a courtroom big enough for
all
of them. So the judge ordered a makeshift courtroom to be created in the
giant hall of the Palace of Justice to hold everyone.
Business continues in the Sentier district, and most of those who own
shops
had a positive view of the trial.
“Personally, I am very happy,” said a woman who had worked in Sentier
for
more than 30 years. The woman declined to give her name, claiming that
she
had already seen the community treat others who were quoted in the media
as
betrayers and gossipers.
Nevertheless, she added, “The affair gives all of us a ridiculous and
bad
reputation. The trial is necessary, whether they are Jews or not.”
The final ingredient in the scandal, a recently released film titled
“Would
I Lie To You 2?” has unwittingly added to the circus-like affair.
The comedy, which has achieved a huge success at the French box office,
features four Paris-based Jews from North Africa who work in the Sentier
district. The Jews are cheated by a large European corporation, but
react
with bravado and charm to exact a just revenge in the end.
Though completely unrelated to the real Sentier affair, the French
public
has continually used one to refer to the other.
Said one store owner in the Sentier, “Don’t pay attention to the media
and
the trial. Better just go see ‘Would I Lie To You 2?'” <end>
===========================================
Israel has used this excuse before, that countries haven’t followed the
proper
procedure to extradite Jews who have fled there. I get the impression
that the countries get tired of trying to follow their directions. It
is obvious
that Israel doesn’t want to extradite, remember the darling boy who
dismembered another boy then tried to burn the remains? He is doing
soft time in Israel instead of a possible death or life without parole
in
Maryland.
Nor did the program which called Israel a criminal’s paradise amount to
antisemitism. The charge though is another example of fending off
criticism
of the Criminal’s, sorry the Zionists’, Paradise by calling just
criticism
of Israel antisemitism.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:04 EST 2001
Article: 259144 of soc.culture.canada
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: The struggle is global –
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I haven’t heard of these attacks. But don’t you think that when you
assert that all Jews are Zionists, others are going to take you at your
word?
And when nearly all jews stand silent in the face of your nauseous
aggression or actively support you as many wealthy Jews do,
what are people to think? I post here the articles by the dissenters,
Not In My Name, Bill Friend, a small group in Israel, Gush shalom,
and a very few others, but most are like you Omri, blindly supporting
the horrible oppression, and trying to justify it with hollow phrases.
Jews need to separate themselves from Zionism.
RLA
Omri Schwarz wrote:
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > The struggle is global –
>
> The Arabs who have been attacking Jews in
> such places as Paris, Montreal, London,
> and Sydney certainly think so.
>
> —
> Omri Schwarz —
> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the
> patient.” — R.F. Farr
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:05 EST 2001
Article: 259145 of soc.culture.canada
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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<[email protected]> <octzof4djsr.fsf@mint-square.mit.edu> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <3AA13033.D2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <octpufw87sp.f[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Let me get one thing straight with you. I don’t “justify” any violence. Some is
more understandable than others. Your parents and many others came to
a land where the people were under occupation and began to colonize it
knowing you weren’t welcome there. Violence of the citizens was the only
response possible for them YOu have now, as was always the plan, occupied
about 90 % of their country, and are actively destroying a good part of the little
bit that
remains to them. And you have no excuse for this, you just keep harping
on their reaction to your illegal immigration eighty one years ago.
You are a real piece of work. If you want sympathy, you can’t find it in this
world.
RLA
Omri Schwarz wrote:
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > I am not an antisemite. I oppose your brutal oppression of the Palestinians.
>
> And yet you dare to defend the massacres of 1920 as
> a justified response to the oh-so-awful crime of buying land.
>
> > I suppose you will deny that you oppress them or that you are brutal
> > to them too. You are a real piece of work. Obviously bright, and
>
> I don’t deny that. I merely point out the truth,
> which is that Palestinians are far more
> brutal to Jews, whenever they get the chance.
>
> > obviously indoctrinated with the ideology, and determined to oppress.
> > RLA
> >
> > Omri Schwarz wrote:
> >
> > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
> > >
> > > > Omri Schwarz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, Omri, Israel is the aggressor now as the Jews of the Yishuv were
> > > > > > the aggressors before 1948.
> > > > > > You know that. The Zionists came to Palestine with the intention of
> > > > >
> > > > > Name a single incident in which Jews
> > > > > were the aggressors, prior to 1947.
> > > > >
> > > > > Name a single one prior to 1929.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can’t.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because the Pallies were the aggressors,
> > > > > starting with the Good Friday massacre of 1920.
> > > >
> > > > Omri, seriously, you know that the Jews came to Palestine
> > > > with the design of supplanting the Palestinians in their own
> > > > country. You cannot deny this. Nor can you deny that
> > >
> > > No, Roger, I have read 10 times more books on the issue
> > > than you. It is quite the contrary.
> > >
> > > Further more, only an antisemite,
> > > like yourself, will equate buying land,
> > > which is what my tribe did, with rape and
> > > murder, which is what the Pallies doid.
> > >
> > > > the Palestinians soon figured this out. Further, if the Palestinians
> > >
> > > Actually, Roger, the Palestinians
> > > only started the violence after
> > > a rumor spread that Jews were planning to
> > > destroy the Al Aqsah mosque.
> > >
> > > —
> > > Omri Schwarz —
> > > Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
> > > “Noise is principally due to the presence of the
> > > patient.” — R.F. Farr
> >
>
> —
> Omri Schwarz —
> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the
> patient.” — R.F. Farr
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:10:05 EST 2001
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Conrad Black accuses one of his reporters of “blood libel”
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I beg your pardon. There is no chance of denying the publisher
of various publications the freedom of his speech. If you mean
suing for defamation, well, defaming people carries with it certain
risks. Calling their speech blood libel, which was what the pilpul
did to me is one form of defamation. Taki depends on Black for
his livelihood, or most of it. I think the New York Press, where
he shines, is not Black’s, but I could be wrong.
RLA
Kim Bebbington wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:01:09 -0600, Roger Alexander
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >JTA | News at a Glance | March 04, 2001 1:48:01 PM ET
> >
> >A Canadian media magnate criticized a columnist at one of his
> >
> >magazines for an anti-Semitic column. Conrad Black, who owns
> >
> >The Spectator in London, said Taki Theodoracopulos had issued a
> >
> >”blood libel on the Jewish people wherever they may be” that was
> >
> >”almost worthy of Goebbels.” Theodoracopulos wrote that “the way
> >
> >to Uncle Sam’s heart runs through Tel Aviv and Israeli-occupied
> >
> >territory” and described Israelis as “those nice guys who attack
> >
> >rock-throwing youth with armour-piercing missiles.”
> >
> >======================================
> >I would laugh but the guy is perfectly serious.
> >One would almost think Mr. Black (husband of Barbara Amiel) was
> >a Zionist.
> >BTW, it doesn’t take much to be accused of blood libel these days.
> >If I were a judge, I would have to say that the reporter’s remarks
> >are a fair comment on the evidence.
> >The pilpul accused me of that but he quit when I threatened to sue him.
> >RLA
>
> “Zionists want freedom of speech for themselves, and want to deny it
> to others.
> RLA”
> From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001
>
> Hypocrite.
