Alexander 0103-9, Alexander Roger

Nina, 19, arrived in Israel from Minsk, Belorus, on a tourist visa in

She knew she was going to work in the sex industry, but was

promised good conditions. After working for three months at a brothel

in Haifa, Nina was kidnapped at gunpoint, sold for $1000 at a public

auction, beaten and raped. Nina was arrested during a police raid in

March 1999. She was detained awaiting deportation. But despite

holding

a valid passport and flight ticket she was not allowed to leave

Israel. The Haifa region public prosecutor had issued a holding order

to ensure her testimony against the three men who had kidnapped and

raped her. Nina was finally expelled from Israel in June 1999 after

being held in custody for two months. Government officials

interviewed

by the press denied all responsibility for Nina’s imprisonment.

(Source: Amnesty International, Report on human rights abuses of

women

trafficked from countries of the former Soviet Union into Israel’s

sex

industry, 2000.)

 

*

 

In 1989, dozens of families from the Abu Jardoud tribe were evicted

from their homes in the western Negev on the pretext that the lands

they occupied were restricted for military use. The families were

relocated to an area called Ramat Hovav, close to an industrial waste

 

dump which led to diseases among the residents. Eventually the

Israeli

authorities temporarily relocated the families to an existing

population concentration, with the promise that an agricultural

settlement would be established for them. The site of the proposed

village is unknown, and the promise has yet to be fulfilled. (Source:

 

online at http://assoc40.org/english/index.htm)

 

*

 

Jacqueline Barukh lives with her five children in the Yod-Aleph

neighbourhood of Beer-Sheva. Her husband, Moshe, works in the local

supermarket. Jacqueline is proud that her children always have enough

 

to eat; there are plenty of families in the nearby Daled

neighbourhood

– where the Barukh family used to live – whose children survive on

bread, cucumbers and white cheese. The Barukh’s do not consider

themselves poor, yet some of the children sleep on roll-out beds in

the living room, Jacqueline has not bought new clothes for years, and

 

every day is a financial struggle. In 1994, the Barukh’s monthly

income was 2400 shekels (then about $800), placing them below the

poverty line. One researcher at the National Insurance Institute

claims that although the Barukh’s conditions are far from those of

Third World poverty, the family forms part of a permanent, definable

underclass that struggles on from day to day in crowded apartments,

on

recycled clothes and on watered down soup on Shabbat, living in areas

 

where drug abuse and petty crime are widespread. (Source: Jerusalem

Report, April 7, 1994.)

 

* * *

 

In the Declaration of Independence the founders of Israel proclaimed

that the new State would “…foster the development of the country

for

the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom,

justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will

ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its

inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex….” Yet in the

year

2000, women are being bought and sold for the sex industry in a new

slave trade, Bedouin citizens of Israel are forcibly evicted from

their homes and land, and thousands of Israelis live below the

poverty

line while the elite benefit from economic growth and prosperity.

Israel is wracked by inequality and oppression based on gender,

ethnicity, socioeconomic background, nationality, religion and more.

Below are highlighted three examples of social injustice in Israel

today.

 

The gap between rich and poor

 

Economic inequality in Israel is growing. Israel, a social report,

1998, published by the Adva Center for Equality and Social Justice in

 

Israel, reports that in 1988 the top decile of the population

received

8.4 times the share of the bottom decile. By 1996, the figure had

increased to 10.6. Top salaries in Israel are high and rising. The

average monthly salary of a manager in a Stock Exchange listed

company

was NIS 96,000 (about $24,000) in 1997. 259 managers had salaries of

over NIS 100,000 a month, and 54 earned over NIS 200,000. At the same

 

time, while top managers’ salaries are on a par with those in Europe

and the US, Israeli industrial workers’ wages have been on the

decline. Most Israeli workers earn less than the national average

wage

(NIS 5899 in 1998); in 1995, over 65% earned less. Moreover, the

proportion of Israelis below the poverty line is on the increase,

from

23.8% in 1979 to 30.3% in 1996. One third of all Israeli children

live

in poverty.

 

The status of women

 

Israel boasts some of the world’s most progressive legislation

guaranteeing equal rights and opportunities to women, especially in

the workplace. But the reality is quite different. The Adva center

reports that on average, women’s monthly wages are 60% of men’s. Some

 

of this difference is due to the fact that more women than men work

part time. But even when calculations are based on an hourly wage,

women earn 80% of men’s average salaries. In addition, many women are

 

prevented from working full time by the lack of childcare provision.

Day care centers only serve about one-fifth of children under the age

 

of four. Kindergartens only operate in the morning, leaving the

problem of what to do with the children in the afternoon. The

situation with primary schools is the same. Prime Minister Ehud

Barak’s 1999 election campaign promised the introduction of a long

school day, but so far this has not been implemented.

 

Israeli women are victims of endemic violence, both domestic and

sexual. In an Israel Women’s Network report on the status of women in

 

Israel, Shoshana London Sappir records that in the first three months

 

of 2000, six Israeli women were murdered by their partners. In 1999,

17 women and six children were killed in domestic violence. One third

 

of Israeli women will be a victim of sexual assault or rape in their

lifetimes. A rape is committed every 12 hours and other types of

sexual assault every four hours. A network of voluntary organisations

 

exists to deal with these problems on the therapeutic and educational

 

fronts, but meagre government resources are devoted to the problem.

 

Israeli Arabs

 

Israeli Arabs (plus Druze, Circassians and other non-Jewish ethnic

groups) make up one fifth of the Israeli population. They are

guaranteed equal rights by the Declaration of Independence.

Nevertheless, they are victims of institutionalised discrimination.

Arab towns and villages receive lower levels of government funding

than their Jewish equivalents. Arab citizens earn lower salaries than

 

their Jewish counterparts; according to the Adva report, Ashkenazi

Jewish employees’ pay is on average twice as much as Arab wage

earners. There are no signs that this gap is closing; the inequality

remains stable. Inequality also exists in education. Among the

general

population only 37.7% of students matriculate from high school (a

precondition for progressing to higher education), and the figure in

the Arab community is even lower: 21.9%. And while only 6% of

students

in affluent Jewish localities drop out before completing the 12^th

grade, in Arab areas the rate is 42%. Finally, the Arab infant

mortality rate remains double that of Jews.

 

In addition to socio-economic inequality, Israeli Arabs face another

problem: one of identity. They live in a state whose definition as a

Jewish State excludes or alienates them. The conflict between Israel

and the Palestinians (with whom most Israeli Arabs identify)

exacerbates these problems, leaving Israeli Arabs in a state of

internal conflict. Azmi Bishara, a leading Arab Member of Knesset,

takes the following position on the status of Israeli Arabs: “I want

Israel to be a society which officially recognises itself as a state

which contains two cultures, a Jewish majority culture, the other, a

Palestinian national minority living inside a Jewish majority,

sharing

citizenship…. The state itself may have the cultural character of

the majority, but its relationship to citizens must be regulated by

citizenship and not by their religious identity – in short, I want

Israel to become a state of all its citizens.” (Tikkun Magazine, 3:4)

 

These inequalities between rich and poor, men and women and Jews and

Arabs by no means paints a full picture of social injustice in

Israel,

a picture that includes discrimination against disabled people, gays

and lesbians, foreign workers, Mizrahi (oriental) Jews and more.

 

* * *

 

How can the dissonance between the lofty ideals of the Declaration of

 

Independence and the complicated Israeli reality be explained?

 

Tensions in Zionist ideology

 

The Zionist movement was always a broad coalition. It contained

Marxists, utopian socialists, liberals, capitalists, orthodox

factions

(both left wing and bourgeois), right-wing nationalists,

internationalists and more. One of the functions of the Declaration

of

Independence was to recruit the support of all these groups for the

proclamation of the State, to paper over the cracks between them and

to provide a united statement of principles for the nascent state.

Fittingly, the Declaration is full of competing visions of Israeli

society.

 

Particularism vs Universalism

 

How does the principle of the “natural right of the Jewish people to

be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own

sovereign State” gel with the promise to “foster the development of

the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants”? The Declaration

is unclear about the position of non-Jews in the new state. Were they

 

to be equal partners, fully integrated into Israeli society, or were

they to be granted basic political freedoms but kept at arms’ length?

 

Could Israeli Arabs and other non-Jews expect full equality or not?

 

Liberalism vs Socialism

 

The Declaration alludes to the prophetic ideals of freedom, justice

and peace, and announces that the new state “will ensure complete

equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants

irrespective of religion, race or sex.” Fine sentiments, but what do

they mean in practice? Freedom can mean almost anything, from basic

human rights, to political freedom and democracy, to freedom from

poverty and oppression. In the same way, justice can simply mean the

rule of law, or it can mean the absence of exploitation and

inequality. The Declaration of Independence hides a controversy

between an egalitarian, socialist conception of the Jewish state and

a

liberal, capitalist one. The word “equality” appears only in

connection to rights. Equal rights is not the same thing as equality

of income or even equality of opportunity. A world view based on

equal

rights can certainly accommodate poverty and inequality.

 

Normalisation vs A Light to the Nations

 

Despite the tensions hidden behind the Declaration of Independence,

the Zionist movement and the leadership of the early State was

dominated by one political force: socialist Zionism in the form of

Ben

Gurion’s Mapai party. Ben Gurion’s ideology can be summed up in one

phrase: “from class to nation.” The State of Israel was to be an

egalitarian, socialist society in which the means of production would

 

be in the hands of the workers. The Jewish working class would be

identical with the Jewish nation and the State of Israel would be a

model, egalitarian workers’ society, free from class conflict and

exploitation, fulfilling the biblical prophecy that Israel would

become a Light to the Nations.

 

Yet Ben Gurion’s socialist Zionist vision was also ambiguous. It was

built on a tension between two key concepts. On the one hand, the

“normalisation of the Jewish people” and on the other the idea that

the State of Israel would be a “Light to the Nations.” But

normalisation was interpreted in two different ways. The first was

that the Jewish people’s economic and social structure had been

distorted by its life in galut (exile or diaspora) and that Zionism’s

 

job was to repair the damage. Where once Jews had been money lenders,

 

inn keepers, landlords’ agents, lawyers and accountants, now they

would become farmers, labourers, carpenters and engineers. The Jewish

 

people would be reconnected with creative labour and in so doing

would

become economically and culturally independent.

 

But normalisation was interpreted in another way, too. Zionists often

 

dreamed of a time when Jewish criminals would be arrested by the

Jewish police and put into Jewish prisons. In other words, the goal

of

Zionism was not to create a model state, but to turn the Jews into a

“people like any other.” Normalisation meant an escape from the Jews’

 

uniqueness and from their particular destiny. The Jews would be just

like everyone else. If other countries were wracked by inequality,

exploitation, selfishness and injustice, there was no reason to

expect

otherwise from the Jews.

 

In today’s Israel, all these ideological tensions – over the place of

 

non-Jews and particularly Arabs in Israeli society and culture,

whether Israel should follow a free-market or a social-democratic

model for its development, and around the key issue of whether

Israeli

society has any special moral responsibility for creating social

justice or not – are still playing themselves out.

 

The myth of utopia

 

Israeli collective memory portrays an idealistic past, of a united,

egalitarian community, living out its ideals and committed to the

common good. All that in stark contrast to today’s conflict-riven,

unequal, materialistic society. But did Israel ever live up to these

ideals? Although Israeli society certainly has become more unequal in

 

recent years, the utopian view of Zionist history masks the fact that

 

Israeli society has always been marked by oppression – of women, of

Arab citizens, of disabled people, of gays and lesbians, and of

mizrahi Jews.

 

Part of the oppression of marginalised groups has been their

silencing

and their exclusion from public discourse. The vacuum was filled by

rhetoric of “equality for all”, “the melting pot”, the “ingathering

of

the exiles” and the rights of all Israelis, Jews and Arabs alike.

This

hegemonic rhetoric blinded many Israelis to the injustices being

perpetrated in their midst.

 

The recent flowering of pressure groups campaigning against sexism,

racism and homophobia, and the corresponding explosion of stories

about marginalised groups does not necessarily attest to an increase

in social injustice. In fact, the opposite may be true. The rising

awareness of inequality and oppression indicates that perhaps, at

long

last, Israelis are abandoning the myths and the conspiracy of

silence,

and are starting to deal with the task ahead: creating social justice

 

in Israel.

_________________________________________________________________

 

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I often speak of Israel as populated by monsters, and so it is.

But there are a few, a tiny number actually, of real peace activists.

Irit Katriel is a real trooper.

RLA

 

ISRAEL CONFIRMS

 

 

 

Haggai and Irit Katriel

March 3, 2001

 

Hidden from the eyes of the world, obscured by a smokescreen of endless

internal-political scandals-petite, reported as “exchanges of fire” and

“security engineering work”, the Israeli army’s bulldozers and tanks

have

been working for months on evacuating vast areas of the Gaza strip from

their Palestinian inhabitants. The affected areas are primarily those

which

are adjacent to the Israeli settlements and army posts or along the

roads

leading to them.

 

For the first time today, an Israeli source confirms what anyone who has

 

been following the events already knows. Israeli channel 1 evening news:

 

“The IDF is acting to capture territories as a strategic aim in the

present

conflict. This was revealed by a senior military source. According to

the

source, the IDF is capturing territories inside zone A, in order to

improve

positions and also to make clear to the Palestinians that there is a

territorial price to the conflict”. (translated from Hebrew).

 

The Jerusalem post’s website provided some more information: “The

[senior

IDF] source said that the IDF was working to widen the margins of the

settlement blocs in the Gaza Strip in order to bolster settlers’

security

and send a message to the Palestinians that violence on their part will

yield only losses.”

 

*

 

“Widen the margins of the settlements”, says the clean language of the

propagandist. In layman’s terms, this is called expulsion, evacuation,

ethnic cleansing.

 

The early stages of this spree of destruction and dispossession were

surveyed

in (1). Houses were shelled and bulldozed, at times without prior notice

 

and with the inhabitants fleeing in horror into a dark night and an even

 

darker future in makeshift refugee camps of red cross tents.

Agricultural

land was flattened by the 1000s of dunoms, leaving their owners without

their property and source of income.

 

“Israeli shelling has left a total of about 4,000 people homeless; and

about

500 homes have been completely razed”, said Ha’aretz on Jan 30th.

 

Numerous recent reports from Gaza all tell the same story. On Feb 19,

the

Palestinian Monitor Organization reported that “The situation in Gaza is

 

dreadful, and worsening by degrees. […] the Israeli army has taken

control

of Palestinian farmland and orchards that lie alongside roads that are

used

by settlers, and land that surrounds military bases and settlements.

[…]

the Israeli military has also destroyed everything on the land. The

depth of

this destruction needs to be seen to be believed. All vegetation

including

olive and citrus trees, banana plants, mango groves, agricultural sheds,

 

vegetable greenhouses, and palm trees along the roadside from Gaza City

to

Khan Younis has been decimated.”

 

Alison Weir, a particularly brave American activist who is visiting Gaza

and

reporting what she sees whenever she reaches an internet cafe or a place

to

hook up her modem, wrote on Feb 18th: “I also visited two tiny

encampments of

women and children living in tents on the dirt. They were people who

used to

have homes in Khan Younis, but the Israelis decided to make a road

through

them […] so they bulldozed their homes and their date palms and orange

 

groves. […] And the people are living in the dirt, and show me a

bent-up

aluminum wash pan that they retrieved from where their homes had been —

 

everything else, they said, was ‘under the land'”.

 

The Mawasi district, a Palestinian enclave within the Israeli settlement

block

of the southern part of the Gaza strip, received some extra attention

>from the

Israeli left when residents of 22 of its houses received eviction orders

on

February 11 (they were among the first to notice that the relative quiet

of the

Israeli-elections era was over). We protested, and the military denied

having

issued the eviction orders.

 

The next day, Reuters reported that 40 Palestinians were injured in a

six-hour

battle in Khan Younis. One of the Palestinian fighters was reported to

have

said that they were trying to protect Mawasi from the Israeli

bulldozers.

 

Alison Weir wrote on Feb 28: “Yesterday I visited Mawasi, a lovely

agricultural

district along the beach that Israel has closed off and is steadily

destroying.

I saw 100 year-old palm trees they had bulldozed, acres and acres of

palms,

olive trees, vegetables, that Israel leveled. I talked to farmers whose

families

have worked on this land for untold generations, who now have no

livelihoods,

their fields destroyed and confiscated. I was lucky to even get in to

Mawasi.

It’s been closed off, and everyone warned me that it was dangerous. The

grandmother where I was staying was so upset at the thought that she

used

what English she could: ‘No go! No go Mawasi!’ ”

 

*

 

This is the reality behind what the “senior IDF source” calls “widening

of

the margins of the settlements”. And the media is silent, and the world

is

silent, and ‘security needs’ justify every evil. And the comments of

this

“senior IDF source” will most likely fade away, without protest, and

without

raising a public debate in Israel or in any part of the “enlightened

West”,

which is reading in its newspapers that Israel REALLY is about to lose

patience and start fighting back.

 

 

 

———————–

(1) See “Palestinian refugees; Israeli hypocricy” of Dec 23, on

IMC/Israel

at http://www.indymedia.org.il .

 

 

 

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I am not an antisemite.  I oppose your brutal oppression of the Palestinians.

I suppose you will deny that you oppress them or that you are brutal

to them too.  You are a real piece of work.  Obviously bright, and

obviously indoctrinated with the ideology, and determined to oppress.

RLA

 

Omri Schwarz wrote:

 

> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

>

> > Omri Schwarz wrote:

> >

> > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

> > >

> > > > Yes, Omri, Israel is the aggressor now as the Jews of the Yishuv were

> > > > the aggressors before 1948.

> > > > You know that.  The Zionists came to Palestine with the intention of

> > >

> > > Name a single incident in which Jews

> > > were the aggressors, prior to 1947.

> > >

> > > Name a single one prior to 1929.

> > >

> > > You can’t.

> > >

> > > Because the Pallies were the aggressors,

> > > starting with the Good Friday massacre of 1920.

> >

> > Omri, seriously, you know that the Jews came to Palestine

> > with the design of supplanting the Palestinians in their own

> > country.  You cannot deny this.  Nor can you deny that

>

> No, Roger, I have read 10 times more books on the issue

> than you. It is quite the contrary.

>

> Further more, only an antisemite,

> like yourself, will equate buying land,

> which is what my tribe did, with rape and

> murder, which is what the Pallies doid.

>

> > the Palestinians soon figured this out.  Further, if the Palestinians

>

> Actually, Roger, the Palestinians

> only started the violence after

> a rumor spread that Jews were planning to

> destroy the Al Aqsah mosque.

>

> —

> Omri Schwarz —

> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:

> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the

> patient.” — R.F. Farr

 

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http://www.jta.org/story.asp?story=7149

 

Paris Jews worry about image after some are accused in scandal

 

By Joshua Schuster

 

PARIS, March 5 (JTA) – A major scandal has hit the heart of Paris’

heavily

Jewish clothing district.

 

The affair’s ingredients include a pyramid scheme, $80 million, 12 of

the

124 accused fleeing to Israel, charges of anti-Semitism and one of

France’s

most popular films.

 

The defendants, a majority of whom are Jews from Morocco and Tunisia who

 

came to France in the 1960s immigration wave, are store owners accused

of

having swindled French banks for loans to buy non-existent goods.

 

The affair blew open last month when a vast pyramid scheme, which some

suggest has been going on for decades, came tumbling down after a series

of

bank loans were defaulted.

 

Several store owners who sell a variety of major fashion brands in small

 

boutiques had sought loans to stabilize their faltering businesses, but

were told they could secure the loans only if they proved business would

 

pick up.

 

So the owners turned to friends and family who form a tight-knit

community

in Sentier, an area that covers approximately 10 square blocks in the

center of Paris. To obtain the bank loan, another store would sign a

contract agreeing to buy a large amount of stock over a certain time.

 

But it turns out that the majority of stores who signed such contracts

had

no intention of purchasing the goods. When it came time to settle the

loan,

the next store would search out a new loan from another bank and a new

contract from another store. The banks are also accused of knowingly

aiding

the illegal process.

 

The scheme ended when police began searching for shop owners who had not

 

paid their loans, prompting several of the accused to flee for other

countries, including Switzerland and Israel.

 

But the case took on a different tone as the French government accused

Israel of knowingly harboring fugitives, despite having signed an

international extradition pact.

 

“By intentionally pursing this policy, Israel removed itself from the

family of nations,” said French prosecutor Francois Franchy.

 

Israel responded that it had not received an official demand for

extradition.

 

While the French government has sent documents requesting the capture of

 

the accused, it failed to include proper evidence of their guilt

according

to international standards, Israeli officials said.

 

“They have no one to blame but themselves,” said Irit Kahn, director of

the

international department at the Israeli Justice Ministry, noting that

France has failed to resubmit their request after having been informed

of

the proper guidelines.

 

However, the French prosecutor has suggested during the trial that

Israel

has willingly harbored fugitives in the past, noting that Israel is on a

 

blacklist of 15 countries that are not cooperating in the war against

money

laundering.

 

Some French media outlets have chosen to press this aspect of the trial,

 

with one television channel broadcasting a program titled “Israel – A

Criminal’s Paradise.”

 

This immediately raised outrage in the French Jewish community, which

claimed that such programs perpetuated anti-Semitism.

 

“They are putting all Jews in the same sack,” said one Sentier store

owner

who spoke on condition that his name not be published.

 

However, others in the Jewish community said they feel that Israel

should

extend more cooperation in the case.

 

“In principle, I think that Israel has caused itself damage by harboring

 

criminals on its soil,” said William Goldnadel, a well-respected

French-Jewish attorney who represents one of the suspects in the case.

“They are not good citizens and do not contribute” to Israel’s image.

 

The trial opened last week without the 12 who are alleged to have fled

to

Israel. But the tribunal involved such a huge number of defendants,

lawyers

and their families that Paris could not find a courtroom big enough for

all

of them. So the judge ordered a makeshift courtroom to be created in the

 

giant hall of the Palace of Justice to hold everyone.

 

Business continues in the Sentier district, and most of those who own

shops

had a positive view of the trial.

 

“Personally, I am very happy,” said a woman who had worked in Sentier

for

more than 30 years. The woman declined to give her name, claiming that

she

had already seen the community treat others who were quoted in the media

as

betrayers and gossipers.

 

Nevertheless, she added, “The affair gives all of us a ridiculous and

bad

reputation. The trial is necessary, whether they are Jews or not.”

 

The final ingredient in the scandal, a recently released film titled

“Would

I Lie To You 2?” has unwittingly added to the circus-like affair.

 

The comedy, which has achieved a huge success at the French box office,

features four Paris-based Jews from North Africa who work in the Sentier

 

district. The Jews are cheated by a large European corporation, but

react

with bravado and charm to exact a just revenge in the end.

 

Though completely unrelated to the real Sentier affair, the French

public

has continually used one to refer to the other.

 

Said one store owner in the Sentier, “Don’t pay attention to the media

and

the trial. Better just go see ‘Would I Lie To You 2?'” <end>

 

===========================================

Israel has used this excuse before, that countries haven’t followed the

proper

procedure to extradite Jews who have fled there.  I get the impression

that the countries get tired of trying to follow their directions.  It

is obvious

that Israel doesn’t want to extradite, remember the darling boy who

dismembered another boy then tried to burn the remains?  He is doing

soft time in Israel instead of a possible death or life without parole

in

Maryland.

 

Nor did the program which called Israel a criminal’s paradise amount to

antisemitism.  The charge though is another example of fending off

criticism

of the Criminal’s, sorry the Zionists’, Paradise by calling just

criticism

of Israel antisemitism.

RLA

 

From [email protected] Fri Mar  9 16:10:04 EST 2001

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I haven’t heard of these attacks.  But don’t you think that when you

assert that all Jews are Zionists, others are going to take you at your

word?

And when nearly all jews stand silent in the face of your nauseous

aggression or actively support you as many wealthy Jews do,

what are people to think?  I post here the articles by the dissenters,

Not In My Name, Bill Friend, a small group in Israel, Gush shalom,

and a very few others, but most are like you Omri, blindly supporting

the horrible oppression, and trying to justify it with hollow phrases.

Jews need to separate themselves from Zionism.

RLA

 

Omri Schwarz wrote:

 

> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

>

> > The struggle is global –

>

> The Arabs who have been attacking Jews in

> such places as Paris, Montreal, London,

> and Sydney certainly think so.

>

> —

> Omri Schwarz —

> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:

> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the

> patient.” — R.F. Farr

 

 

 

 

From [email protected] Fri Mar  9 16:10:05 EST 2001

Article: 259145 of soc.culture.canada

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Let me get one thing straight with you.  I don’t “justify” any violence.  Some is

more understandable than others.  Your parents and many others came to

a land where the people were under occupation and began to colonize it

knowing you weren’t welcome there.  Violence of the citizens was the only

response possible for them   YOu have now, as was always the plan, occupied

about 90 % of their country, and are actively destroying a good part of the little

bit that

remains to them.  And you have no excuse for this, you just keep harping

on their reaction to your illegal immigration eighty one years ago.

You are a real piece of work.  If you want sympathy, you can’t find it in this

world.

RLA

 

Omri Schwarz wrote:

 

> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

>

> > I am not an antisemite.  I oppose your brutal oppression of the Palestinians.

>

> And yet you dare to defend the massacres of 1920 as

> a justified response to the oh-so-awful crime of buying land.

>

> > I suppose you will deny that you oppress them or that you are brutal

> > to them too.  You are a real piece of work.  Obviously bright, and

>

> I don’t deny that. I merely point out the truth,

> which is that Palestinians are far more

> brutal to Jews, whenever they get the chance.

>

> > obviously indoctrinated with the ideology, and determined to oppress.

> > RLA

> >

> > Omri Schwarz wrote:

> >

> > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

> > >

> > > > Omri Schwarz wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, Omri, Israel is the aggressor now as the Jews of the Yishuv were

> > > > > > the aggressors before 1948.

> > > > > > You know that.  The Zionists came to Palestine with the intention of

> > > > >

> > > > > Name a single incident in which Jews

> > > > > were the aggressors, prior to 1947.

> > > > >

> > > > > Name a single one prior to 1929.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can’t.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because the Pallies were the aggressors,

> > > > > starting with the Good Friday massacre of 1920.

> > > >

> > > > Omri, seriously, you know that the Jews came to Palestine

> > > > with the design of supplanting the Palestinians in their own

> > > > country.  You cannot deny this.  Nor can you deny that

> > >

> > > No, Roger, I have read 10 times more books on the issue

> > > than you. It is quite the contrary.

> > >

> > > Further more, only an antisemite,

> > > like yourself, will equate buying land,

> > > which is what my tribe did, with rape and

> > > murder, which is what the Pallies doid.

> > >

> > > > the Palestinians soon figured this out.  Further, if the Palestinians

> > >

> > > Actually, Roger, the Palestinians

> > > only started the violence after

> > > a rumor spread that Jews were planning to

> > > destroy the Al Aqsah mosque.

> > >

> > > —

> > > Omri Schwarz —

> > > Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:

> > > “Noise is principally due to the presence of the

> > > patient.” — R.F. Farr

> >

>

> —

> Omri Schwarz —

> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:

> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the

> patient.” — R.F. Farr

 

 

 

 

From [email protected] Fri Mar  9 16:10:05 EST 2001

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I beg your pardon.  There is no chance of denying the publisher

of various publications the freedom of his speech.  If you mean

suing for defamation, well, defaming people carries with it certain

risks.  Calling their speech blood libel, which was what the pilpul

did to me is one form of defamation.  Taki depends on Black for

his livelihood, or most of it.  I think the New York Press, where

he shines, is not Black’s, but I could be wrong.

RLA

 

Kim Bebbington wrote:

 

> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:01:09 -0600, Roger Alexander

> <[email protected]> wrote:

>

> >

> >JTA | News at a Glance | March 04, 2001 1:48:01 PM ET

> >

> >A Canadian media magnate criticized a columnist at one of his

> >

> >magazines for an anti-Semitic column. Conrad Black, who owns

> >

> >The Spectator in London, said Taki Theodoracopulos had issued a

> >

> >”blood libel on the Jewish people wherever they may be” that was

> >

> >”almost worthy of Goebbels.” Theodoracopulos wrote that “the way

> >

> >to Uncle Sam’s heart runs through Tel Aviv and Israeli-occupied

> >

> >territory” and described Israelis as “those nice guys who attack

> >

> >rock-throwing youth with armour-piercing missiles.”

> >

> >======================================

> >I would laugh but the guy is perfectly serious.

> >One would almost think Mr. Black (husband of Barbara Amiel) was

> >a Zionist.

> >BTW, it doesn’t take much to be accused of blood libel these days.

> >If I were a judge, I would have to say that the reporter’s remarks

> >are a fair comment on the evidence.

> >The pilpul accused me of that but he quit when I threatened to sue him.

> >RLA

>

> “Zionists want freedom of speech for themselves, and want to deny it

> to others.

> RLA”

>         From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

>         Message-ID: <[email protected]>

>         Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001

>

> Hypocrite.