Alexander 0103-2, Alexander Roger

In the U.S., the extremist Orthodox milieu can be seen through the story


Harry Shapiro, a socially awkward loner who grew up in a Conservative

Jewish family in Jacksonville, Florida. He ultimately became


and found an ideological home in right-wing Jewish politics. So intense

were his

feelings that he staged a phony bombing of a Jacksonville synagogue


Shimon Peres was to speak on behalf of the Oslo accords.


The forces which led to Shapiro’s violent act are to be found throughout


Jewish institutions across the U.S. As a young man, Shapiro attended


high school classes and United Synagogue Youth meetings at the


Jewish Center. Samuel Freedman reports that, “Rabbi Dov Kentof turned a


campout into a simulated mission with the Israeli army, ending with


around the bonfire. Week after week in the classroom he narrated the



epic of persecution and the resistance, from Masada and Bar Kochba


the Warsaw ghetto uprising and the Final Solution, covering one wall


photographs of Jewish corpses.” Shapiro recalled years later that,


were totally new reasons to be JewishŠThis was more about feelings and

emotions-being proud you’re Jewish, not letting a Holocaust happen

again. It

affected my soul.”


In March 1982, Shapiro’s parents joined a two-week tour of Israel led by


Gaffney, rabbi of the Jacksonville Jewish Center. On the group’s first


day in Israel, after the scheduled stops at Carmel Winery and Weizmann

Institute, Rabbi Gaffney persuaded the driver to head further south


the Mediterranean coast, through Gaza, into Sinai, and finally to the

Jewish town of Yamit, the center of resistance to the peace treaty with



The Camp David accords of 1979 had stipulated that Israel would withdraw


>from the Sinai Peninsula it had captured in 1967 as a condition for

Egyptian President Anwar Sadat’s signing a separate peace. One of the

Israeli settlements in Sinai was Yamit, a community of 2,500. As many of


Yamit’s residents ultimately departed, they were replaced by loyalists


Gush Emunim (Bloc of the Faithful, the radical settlers’ movement), many


them transplanted Americans.


The Shapiros were emotionally moved by their visit. Later, they told


children about Yamit. Harry dwelled on a photograph of the war memorial,


proof of all he had learned in Rabbi Kentof’s class about the price of

Jewish survival. In 1984, Harry Shapiro flew to Israel. He sought out


Gush Emunim faithful and from them he learned that Israel’s victory in


1967 war was God’s will, the Torah’s words, that Jews were to abide in


of Eretz Israel.


When he returned to the U.S. and entered Yeshiva University, Shapiro


the philosophy of Meir Kahane. He faithfully read The Jewish Press, an

Orthodox paper published in Brooklyn. In an open letter to rabbis,


Hecht, who led 2,000 congregants in Brooklyn as rabbi of Shaare Zion

synagogue and 540 colleagues as president of the Rabbinical Alliance of

America, declared: “The Torah permits the most extreme action against


who harm our fellow Jews.”


Rabbi Hecht said that surrendering any of the Land of Israel violated


(Jewish law), and anyone who did so could be killed as a rodef, “one who


pursues a Jew trying to kill him.” Asked by New York Magazine to clarify


sounded like a religious death threat, Hecht explained: “All I said was


according to Jewish law, any one person-you can apply it to whoever you

want-any one person who willfully, consciously, intentionally hands over


human bodies or human property or the human wealth of the Jewish people


an alien people is guilty of the sin for which the penalty is death. And


according to Maimonides-you can quote me-it says very clearly, if a man

kills him, he has done a good deed.”




Completing a Circle


It was in this atmosphere that Harry Shapiro went about his life. “Rabbi


Hecht’s theology,” writes Samuel Freedman, “completed a circle for


Years ago, Gush Emunim had taught that God granted Eretz Israel to the

Jews; then Meir Kahane demonstrated how one could hate Jewish leaders in


the name of loving the Jewish people; and now Harry understood the


for disobeying divine commandment, ‘The Torah is our deed to the land,’

Harry put it. ‘Who is man to give it back?’ŠNever able to join the


against Arabs in Eretz Israel, Harry decided to carry it against a Jew


American ground.”


Harry Shapiro admits his guilt. “I placed gunpowder in a pipe,” he told


court. “I placed it in a house of worship. I threatened the life of a


being with it. I called 911 and issued a threat to keep Mr. Peres from

speaking.” Shapiro now occupies a cell in a medium-security prison in

Jessup, Georgia. He appreciates the printouts his brother sends him from


Web site honoring Meir Kahane.


Early in the 20th century, the Orthodox in America gave every indication


withering to a vestige. As late as 1955, sociologist Marshall Sklare

dismissed the Orthodox experience in the U.S. as “a case study of

institutional decay.” Now, we have witnessed an Orthodox renaissance.


less than 10 percent of the Jewish population, the Orthodox

disproportionately affect the larger community. Orthodox educators often


staff the day schools and Hebrew schools of the Conservative and Reform

movements. In 1956 10 prominent religious scholars issued an issur, a

prohibition against Orthodox participation in any joint rabbinical

organizations-a direct blow against such umbrella groups as the New York


Board of Rabbis and the Synagogue Council of America.In 1979, a


group calling itself TORAH-Tough Orthodox Rabbis And

Hasidim-spray-painted swastikas and anti-Semitic slurs on the only

Conservative synagogue left in the ultra-Orthodox Brooklyn stronghold of


Borough Park. In 1984, the Agudath Harabonim ran advertisements just


the High Holy Days urging Jews “not to pray in a Reform or Conservative

TempleŠwhose clergy have long rebelled against numerous sacred laws of


Torah and mislead thousands of innocent souls.”


The Halakhic instrument promoted by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, both in


and the U.S., that ultimately convinced Yigal Amir that he should kill

Yitzhak Rabin was the ancient Jewish doctrine of zealotry. The doctrine

maintains that under the most extreme circumstances, a God-loving Jew


kill another person without asking permission.


The doctrine of zealotry goes back to the first biblical Jewish


Ben-Eleazar. As told in the Bible, Pinchas, acting in awe of God, killed


Zimri, who had prostituted in public with a Midianite girl. Pinchas’s

problem was that the killing was totally unauthorized and he acted out


an uncontrollable momentary drive. And yet, in spite of the severity of


act, which was denounced, according to the Talmud, by the people’s


it was forgiven by God. The reason given was that Pinchas “was zealous


my sake among them.” God instantly terminated a plague that had already

killed 20,000 Jews. Pinchas’ entire line of ancestors were made priests


Israel. The prophet Elijah is also described in the Bible as a zealot


killed in his wrath 400 priests of Baal, a Canaanite god. Yigal Amir

convinced himself that in killing Rabin he was acting in the best


of Jewish zealotry.


For the ultra-Orthodox, both in Israel and the U.S., a form of


Zionism,” which makes control over the biblical Land of Israel a


mandate, has been growing. In his book, Terror in the Mind of God: the

Global Rise of Religious Violence, Professor Mark Juergensmayer notes


Jewish activists “haveŠbeen convinced that their violent acts have been

authorized as weapons in a divine warfare sanctioned by God. Dr. Baruch

Goldstein’s massacre at the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron in 1994 was


described as a military actŠOne of his supporters explained, ‘It goes


to biblical times,’ indicating that the present-day Arabs are simply the


modern descendants of the enemies of Israel described in the Bible for


God has unleashed wars of revenge.”


Thus far, the organized American Jewish community has done nothing to


the advocates of such violent extremism within its ranks. A vocal and


minority, sadly, has often been embraced in the name of an illusory


unity.” Any “unity” purchased at such a price has within it the seeds of


long-term disintegration.


Allan C. Brownfeld is a syndicated columnist and associate editor of the


Review, a journal published by the Lincoln Institute for Research and


and editor of Issues, the quarterly journal of the American Council for

Judaism. <end>




From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:40 EST 2001

Article: 531910 of soc.culture.jewish



Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast

Subject: Re: good compromise on right to return

References: <[email protected]>

<[email protected]>

<[email protected]> <[email protected]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 45

Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:39:19 -0600


X-Trace: news3.atl 983680659 (Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:37:39 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:37:39 EST

Xref: soc.culture.israel:328006 soc.culture.jewish:531910 soc.culture.palestine:113126



I like the stilted construction of this particular lie:


“Even were it true that Israel evicted it’s Arabs (it’s not)”


Of course it is true that Israel expelled (not evicted, for this

has overtones of right and there was no right) somewhat more than

half the Arabs of Palestine.  And even more true is that Israel

won’t let them come back.  Blocking their return is illegal

under international law.  Mr. Metz spouts the official Zionist line,

which is full of such damned lies.



“Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz” wrote:


> In <[email protected]>, on 01/22/2001

>    at 07:23 PM, “rehan” <[NOSPAM]> said:


> >who done what first? heh? only reason they got kicked out was bcos

> >u’se bastards did it first. they would be there first if it werent

> >for u’se wanks.


> Even were it true that Israel evicted it’s Arabs (it’s not), that

> would still not have anything to do with the blatantly antisemitic

> actions of your brethern; the Jews that you expelled were not citizens

> of Israel until you forced them to move there.


> Too many people plonk you, so you had to change your address? Back

> into the filters. *PLONK*


> —

> ———————————————————–

>      Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

>      Atid/2

>      Team OS/2

>      Team PL/I


> Any unsolicited commercial junk E-mail will be subject to legal

> action.  I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any

> abusive E-mail.


> I mangled my E-mail address to foil automated spammers; reply to

> domain acm dot org user shmuel to contact me.  Do not reply to

> [email protected]

> ———————————————————–




From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:41 EST 2001

Article: 531973 of soc.culture.jewish



Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: Rabbis Must Speak Out | Lloyd Flaum

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 48

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 08:31:09 -0600


X-Trace: news1.atl 983716159 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:29:19 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:29:19 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174926 soc.culture.israel:328047 soc.culture.jewish:531973





Rabbis Must Speak Out | Lloyd Flaum


Letters | The Atlanta Journal-Constitution | October 10, 2000.


I am sick of the fighting in Israel. How many more will die in the name


religion or a piece of land that can’t be shared with all people who


their religions centered in this part of the world?


As a Jew, I call on all religious leaders to speak out against the


How many sermons on Yom Kippur were wasted on Zionism, inter-faith

marriages, giving money to the synagogue and the other typical concerns


the rabbis? Now is the time to speak out against the killing of all


in the name of religion and land.


Peace now! Speak out in synagogue and in church. We all have something


in peace in the Middle East. Jews must stop the fighting, killing and

maiming. As Prime Minister Ehud Barak flexes his military might, how


Atlanta Jews are sickened by his militaristic threats against the

Palestinians? How many rabbis will attempt to raise the consciousness of


Jews that the fighting can stop with Barak urging peace instead of

threatening further military action against the Palestinians?


Let me know because I won’t be attending synagogues this year. I am sick


American Jewish leaders encouraging the violence to continue instead of

speaking out against it.


Lloyd Flaum, Marietta, GA


People posting on SCJ assert that posts there about Israel are off


yet all the major Jewish organizations ardently support Israel, and the

President of the Conference … is Ronald Lauder, an extreme right wing

Zionist.  There is a certain schizophrenia here, wanting to support


yet not being held to account for the crimes Israel commits.

Sort of a wanting to have one’s cake and eat it too.



From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:41 EST 2001

Article: 531974 of soc.culture.jewish



Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: Now I Am Ashamed | Sarah Shartal

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 58

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 08:55:56 -0600


X-Trace: news1.atl 983717646 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:54:06 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:54:06 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174928 soc.culture.israel:328050 soc.culture.jewish:531974



Now I Am Ashamed | Sarah Shartal


Letters | The Toronto Star, October 18, 2000.


As an Israeli born before the occupation, I have watched as my people


the overseers of cheap dependent workers, and we became richer off their


labor. We expropriated their land and resources and we limit their



Now we have inflicted the most violent attacks against them that I have

seen in my lifetime.


Also frightening is how Jewish Israelis are attacking Arab Israelis.


homes and businesses owned by Arab Israeli citizens have been attacked,


and burned, while Jewish Israeli citizens shout, “Death to the Arabs.”


date, our government has not protected its Arab citizens. When Jews from


Nazareth Elite (a town near Nazareth) invaded Nazareth and started to


local stores, local citizens came out to try to stop them. The army came


and shot the Arab victims of the attack, killing two of them.


Inside our country we have always divided our citizens by race. It’s

written into our identity cards.


Jewish Israelis have more legal rights than Arab Israelis with respect


where they can live and work. Although we’re taxed equally, we spend


on Jewish schoolchildren than on Arab children. In Jewish towns and


we built better housing, better roads, better community centers and


social services.


I grew up loving my country and now I am ashamed.


I remember reading something Thoreau wrote when slaves were still owned


the United States. He wrote, “You may not have a responsibility to free

your fellow man but you have a responsibility to get off his back.” At a


minimum we and our country should get off the backs of the Palestinians.


The West Bank and Gaza Strip are their lands.


Inside our country, if we are to survive with any humanity we must


all of our country regardless of religion, race or opinions.


Sarah Shartal, Toronto, Canada


From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:41 EST 2001

Article: 531975 of soc.culture.jewish


Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: The Saddest Sentence | Brad Rubin

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 46

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 08:58:00 -0600


X-Trace: news1.atl 983717769 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:56:09 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:56:09 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174929 soc.culture.israel:328051 soc.culture.jewish:531975



The Saddest Sentence | Brad Rubin


Letters | The Washington Post | October 18, 2000.


An Oct. 13 news story about a pro-Israel rally in New York referred to a


sign held by a protester that read, “Don’t Throw Rocks and You Won’t Get


Killed.” This is perhaps the saddest single sentence I have read yet. As


faithful and observant Jew, I am told by the organizations that


represent me-with the spin summarized in that sign-that I must be


pro-Israeli in my reactions to the recent violence.


As someone who believes in God and the principles of my religion, I


accept this sign, these statements, this representation. How offensive


I must be told that I must believe the Sixth Commandment has conditions,


that all people were not created in God’s image and that I should be

complicitous in the violation of all I have learned in synagogue because


will damage Israel’s political position.


Israel and the American Jewish community have demanded that Yasser


and the Palestinian people disclaim the murders of the two soldiers


before the world’s eyes. Although they should be justified in making


demand, how have they disclaimed the killing of 100 Palestinians, other

than by insinuating that they do not have the same value as Israeli

soldiers? How can Mr. Arafat order his people to stop protesting when we


proclaim our pride in our ability to kill them? And when will Israel,


American Jewish community and the media demand actual allegiance to the

principles, ethics and values of the religions that have supposedly


this conflict?


Brad Rubin, Washington, DC


From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:42 EST 2001

Article: 531976 of soc.culture.jewish


Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: No More Knee Jerk Solidarity | Alan Schechner

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 111

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:05:05 -0600


X-Trace: news2.atl 983718195 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:03:15 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:03:15 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174930 soc.culture.israel:328052 soc.culture.jewish:531976



No More Knee Jerk Solidarity | Alan Schechner


Letters | The Savannah Morning News | November 9, 2000.


Although I did not attend the Solidarity with Israel rally on Oct. 13,


like many at the rally, was brought up and educated to love and defend

Israel. Like many, I, too, am in pain at recent developments in Israel


the occupied territories.


My Zionist education culminated in my moving to Israel at age 18. During


the eight years I spent living in the country, I lived on kibbutzim,



and secular. I volunteered and served in the army, seeing active duty


in Lebanon and in the occupied territories.


I lived on a Jewish settlement in the occupied territories and finally

worked for two years on Arab-Jewish relations, which included one year

living in an Israeli Arab village. As I write this, my parents and two

sisters still live in Israel.


It therefore pains me to say this but it is my opinion, based on my


that Israel is a deeply racist and unjust society and that Zionism, at

least in its current form, degrades and demeans much of what is


in Jewish culture.


My time in the army included the ongoing humiliation and oppression of


Palestinian population of the occupied territories. This was achieved by


endless list of roadblocks, document checks, public humiliations,

curfews and

violent suppressions of free speech.


One particularly painful memory for me is the night when I, together


my unit, was ordered to break into the houses of elderly Palestinians,

overturn their belongings, desecrate their peace and peace of mind for


other reason than to let them know who was boss.


As part of an invading force in Lebanon, I saw firsthand the evils of


punishment. I saw whole communities destroyed because of the action of


individual. I saw a beautiful country destroyed by the megalomaniac

desires of

Ariel Sharon, whose already bloodstained hands are visible again in


latest troubles.


Living on a West Bank settlement I was appalled to learn that Saturday


activities there often consisted of breaking windows, overturning

vehicles and

generally causing havoc in the local Arab village. This unfortunately is


the reality of Israel- not the dreams of an enlightened Jewish homeland

that I was sold at my Zionist Youth Group and Jewish community.


In an attempt to work against these negative forces, in an attempt to

construct the Israel of my dreams, I worked for two years as a community


worker in

Arab-Jewish relations within Israel. That experience, though not as

horrific as

what had gone on before, again pointed to a deeply discriminatory



Arab Israelis, taxpayers, voters were living in conditions far below


of Jewish citizens. Many villages lacked basic amenities. There were


sewers running through the streets, schools were overcrowded with few

facilities and fewer books. The list goes on and on and on.


So while I understand the longing of the Jewish community to show

solidarity with Israel, and I understand its need to help in some way, I


cannot help but balk at the statements of Israeli Vice Consul Ilan


when he says that “Israel just wants peace,” or of Moise Paz, when he

insinuates that helicopter gunships and live ammunition are an apt


to a crowd of teenage stone-throwers.


Yes, we must show solidarity, but not with forces and ideologies that

perpetuate and encourage violence and discrimination. Instead of this


jerk solidarity, let us search out and support those groups and

institutions, both Arab and Jewish, that are working for a fair and

equitable solution to the problems in Israel.


Let us support those groups that wish to put an end to over 30 years of


Israeli occupation, and let us support the human rights of all the


of this region.


If the local Jewish community, as your headline states, wants the


to end in Israel, these are the steps that we must take.


Alan Schechner, Savannah, GA


From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:42 EST 2001

Article: 531981 of soc.culture.jewish


Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.jewish

Subject: Useful websites for information and contacts

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 52

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:30:43 -0600


X-Trace: news3.atl 983719732 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:28:52 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:28:52 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174936 soc.culture.usa:604149 soc.culture.jewish:531981


>From Dr. Bill Friend:


Here are some useful websites for information and contacts.


Palestine Diary

Alternative Information Center

CHALLENGE Magazine (Roni Ben-Efrat)


Elias Daviddson (The Dark Web pages of Zionism)

DIR YASSIN – Israeli Punk Band (check out their song lyrics)

Jewish People’s Liberation Organization (Canada)

Jews Against The Occupation-NYC

Jews For Justice

Jews For Racial and Economic Justice

Neturei Karta (The Guardians of the City – anti-Zionist Chasidic


Noam Chomsky

Norman Finkelstein

SEARCH (Ned Hanauer)

Jewish Peace Fellowship

The Coalition for Justice in Hawaiian Gardens & Jerusalem [ Rabbi Haim


Beliak](Originally StopMoskowitz – i.e, Dr. Irving Moskowitz, Bingo King


major donor to illegal settlements)

The Ethical Spectacle (monthly, frequent essays on M.E. conflict)

The Other Israel

Torah True Jews Against Zionism

Bat Shalom-Feminist Center for Peace in the M.E. (Gila Svirsky)

The Traubman Family Jewish-Palestinian Living Room Dialogue Group in


Middle East Crisis Committee (Stanley Heller)

The American Council for Judaism (oldest continuous secular Jewish

anti-Zionist organization, started 1941 by Rabbi Louis Wolsey, exec.


for 30 years – Rabbi Elmer Berger.  Activists included Alfred M.


(The Zionist Connection), Moshe Menuhin, father of Yehudi Menuhin;


Rosenwald and others.)

Gush Shalom




From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:42 EST 2001

Article: 531989 of soc.culture.jewish



Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: APPALLING EQUATION : Gideon Levy

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Lines: 78

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:22:32 -0600


X-Trace: news2.atl 983722855 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:20:55 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 11:20:55 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174942 soc.culture.israel:328060 soc.culture.jewish:531989





In an op ed published in the Israeli paper Ha’aretz this morning, Gideon

Levy pointed out the grave situation in the occupied Palestinian

territories threatening to push the area into a devastating war.


According the Levy, “It has been a long time – since their calamity in

1948 – that the Palestinians have endured such a hard Feast of the

Sacrifice. Just an hour’s drive from Jerusalem, a cruel drama has been

under way for the past five months the likes of which have not been seen

since the early period of the Israeli occupation, but the majority of

Israelis are taking absolutely no interest in it. The iron grip of the

closure in its new format is increasingly strangling a population of 2.8

million people, yet no one is saying a word, not around the cabinet

table of the outgoing government – the peace government – not among

those who are going to serve in the new government, and not in the

opposition of the Zionist left.”




Levy went on to state, “It has to be said starkly and simply: There has

never been a closure like this there, in the land of the barriers and

the closures.”




“No one enters and no one leaves, not those who are pregnant and not

those who are dying. There isn’t even a soldier with whom one can plead

and beg. The village, the refugee camp or the town are besieged and

their residents are imprisoned. A schoolchild cannot get safely to his

school, or a student to her college, or an adult to his work…”


“This mass jailing of an entire people, with its monstrously inhumane

dimension, entails also a mortal economic blow. According to data of the

United Nations envoy Terje Roed-Larsen, the credibility of which there

is no reason to doubt, the Palestinians are losing $6.8 million a day

because of the present closure, and to date their losses total more than

a billion dollars. For an economy that was shaky to begin with, that is

a deathblow. A quarter of a million unemployed, a million people living

beneath the Palestinian poverty line – $2.10 a day – and a 50 percent

decline in the gross national product: These are nightmarish statistics

not only for the Palestinians but for the Israelis as well…”




“Their hardship will be transformed into more and more terrorist

attacks. This is the point: the horrific distress of the Palestinians

because of the present closure will quickly turn into the distress of

the Israelis. If their Feast of the Sacrifice looks the way it does,

then our Purim will not bring with it much happiness either. Simple as

it is, no one is taking into account the gravity of this appalling





“The present closure is totally unrelated to security considerations.

Anyone who doubts this is invited to go to the barriers and roadblocks

and see thousands of pedestrians and vehicles managing, despite

everything, to sneak into Israel under the nose of the soldiers. Those

who are willing to take the risk of doing this in order to work will

certainly also do it in order to perpetrate a terrorist attack. The true

purpose of the closure is to please the frightened settlers and perhaps

also, the suspicion arises, to destroy the Palestinian Authority, for

reasons, which are difficult to comprehend.


“The current siege, a shamefully appalling operation, must be lifted

quickly. This must not be made conditional on the cessation of the

violence, because the siege itself is the most effective spur of





Levy concluded by stating, “There is no measure that the prime

minister-elect, Ariel Sharon, can take that would contribute more to

effecting a dramatic change in the situation than to remove, immediately

and unconditionally, the trenches and the earth ramparts from the

already difficult life of the Palestinians…”


The full article is available on the Internet at:


From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:43 EST 2001

Article: 532060 of soc.culture.jewish


Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa

Subject: Re: APPALLING EQUATION : Gideon Levy

References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 29

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:46:59 -0600


X-Trace: news1.atl 983756720 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:45:20 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:45:20 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174993 soc.culture.israel:328111 soc.culture.jewish:532060






Red Herring wrote:


> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:22:32 -0600, Roger Alexander

> <[email protected]> wrote:


> >”The present closure is totally unrelated to security considerations.

> >Anyone who doubts this is invited to go to the barriers and roadblocks

> >and see thousands of pedestrians and vehicles managing, despite

> >everything, to sneak into Israel under the nose of the soldiers.


> Some closure, huh?


> The Pallies have no right to enter Israel.   Those who manage to sneak past

> Israeli checkpoints ought to be apprehended, tried and given stiff

> sentences.


> Let the murderous bastards develop their own economy, or starve to death.



And just how do you suppose they are going to develop an economy when they

have no access to any border, and no acces to one another, while the murderous

bastards who jail them for no reason other than that they won’t give up to the

bastards willingly while they breathe, keep them penned up.  YOu are a real

piece of work, whoever you are, you anonymous coward.



From [email protected] Tue Mar  6 16:02:43 EST 2001

Article: 532063 of soc.culture.jewish


Message-ID: <[email protected]>

From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)

X-Accept-Language: en

MIME-Version: 1.0

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.jewish

Subject: Re: Extremism in Israel Is Fueled by a Growing Ultra-Orthodox Movement

in the U.S. By Allan C. Brownfeld

References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>

<[email protected]> <040320011551416348%[email protected]>

<[email protected]> <[email protected]>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lines: 60

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:20:44 -0600


X-Trace: news1.atl 983758745 (Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:19:05 EST)

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:19:05 EST

Xref: talk.politics.mideast:174997 soc.culture.israel:328115 soc.culture.usa:604375



Thanks Barry.

I cannot respond directly to your remark.  I don’t think of religions per

se to like or dislike.

I was born and brought up in the Methodist sect of Christianity, an offshoot of

the Church

of England, itself an offshoot of the catholic Church.  I do look upon cults

and cult like entities

in the same way as one looks at rabid dogs.  Scientology, ofr example, has done


harm to a multitude of people, probably because the people running that crazy

cult are so

greedy.  And, of course, they have no care for the people harmed.  In a lesser

way, MLM

marketers are sort of like them, knowing that the people they draft into their

schemes have

no chance of getting rich, but knowing that they, the originators, will make

money anyway.

Again, I think the owners of businesses like Amway (for example, I have no

intention of singling

it out) do not care for the wellbeing of the people they inveigle into

investing their time and

money into the business.

I look at Zionism much the same way.  The original Zionists were AShkenazi

Jews who

came to Palestine with the avowed purpose of throwing the Palestinians out.

They have damn

near accomplished that, and they are busy every day killing and maiming the

Palestinians who

resist the final solution.  But even among their own the Ashkenazi are the

owners of the Zionist

business.  They treat the Sephardim as second class citizens, and of course,

the Druze worse,

and Arab Israelis worst.  Witness, for example, the killing of thirteen Arab

Israelis in the most

carefree way last October.

I know this isn’t quite responsive to your post, but it’s the best I can




Barry Bowser wrote:


> I happen to think Ultra Orthodoxy is important.  Even though I am not ultra

> orthodox, when I ripped out the new testament completely off of the bible

> and kept the o.t., my intestines felt much better.

> I used to think of myself as freind to all the religions, now I am not so

> sure.  I still am a freind of Jesus/Yeshua but I am not so impressed with

> his followers.  I am enemy of any religion that is enemy to the Yehudi.


> “David Goldman” <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:[email protected]

> > >You are so fullof shit it comes out of your nose, idiot! What the

> > >majority of Israel is opposed to is control by religious fanatics who

> > >would like nothing better than reduce personal freedom, take over the

> > >rendering of justice; at the same times those parasites who do not

> > >work, collect welfare, do not serve in the military while the country

> > >is at war.

> >

> > Nero fiddles as Rome burns………….The Zionist idol is just about

> > at its end……..