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This idiot McVay runs a small subsidiary of the Holocaust Industry, known
as Nizkor.
It has no means of making money that I know of, and so depends entirely on
contributions
>from B’nai Brith Canada. One of their efforts is “exposing” those who
differ with the Holocaust Orthodoxy, which is sought to be made illegal to
argue with, and has so been made illegal
in Germany and France, and I believe in some other countries. He is a real
piece of work.
I often disagree with Matt Giwer, but I find him rational and intelligent.
This is more than
I can say for McVay, for whom I have developed a fine contempt.
RLA
“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Matt Giwer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
> interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
> plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
> accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not
> to see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even
> when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and
> generally conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual
> and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking
> the time to read and respond. For detailed and documented
> evidence of this, please refer to
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>
> If you do not enjoy the luxury of a news filter, simply delete Mr.
> Giwer’s articles unread. With a few moments’ practice, they are easy
> to identify.
>
> Mr. Giwer’s handlers report that he has responded well to training, and
> now reacts in the prescribed manner, changing his userid each time the
> bell is sounded.
>
> Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
> newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
> ignored (the group has no users – it’s just a convenient toilet for
> Matt’s vomitus). If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
> redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
> an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>
> Crawler bait: [email protected] Matthias Giwer
> Lincoln James <[email protected]> Matthias Giwer
> Kainee <[email protected]> Matt Giwer
> Rabbi Moshe Dreckschreiber
> Rabbi Dr. Gedalia Pashkvilkemacher
>
> —
>
> “Denial of Science & The Science of Denial”
> The Techniques of Holocaust Denial
> https://nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:51 EST 2001
Article: 870161 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!
news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.canada,
soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
References: <[email protected]> <3A9F2C33[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3A9FF[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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Mr McVay is a low life sort of person.
I regret getting into a piss fight with this skunk.
But Oh well.
Comments interspersed.
RLA
“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> >This idiot McVay runs a small subsidiary of the Holocaust Industry, known
> >as Nizkor.
> >It has no means of making money that I know of, and so depends entirely on
> >contributions
> >from B’nai Brith Canada. One of their efforts is “exposing” those who
>
> Sorry, Mr. Alexander, but that is incorrect (as usual, in your case).
> B’nai Brith Canada does not contribute to the Nizkor fund, it simply
> accepts donations and disberses funds on Nizkor’s behalf. If the
> donations dry up, as they sometimes do, no funds are available.
>
You want disburse not disberse. B’nai Brith could not exist if Jews did not
contribute to it. There may be a point in there somewhere, but I fail
to see it. If B’nai Brith did not want you to continue, it would shut off your
funds.
Period.
RLA
> >differ with the Holocaust Orthodoxy, which is sought to be made illegal to
> >argue with, and has so been made illegal
>
> The last time you defined this “Holocaust Orthodoxy,” Mr. Alexander,
> you embarrassed yourself. Perhaps you would like to do so once again,
> and define it for your new readers.
>
Perhaps you would like to put up this alleged definition and explain what about
it is embarrassing to me.
RLA
>
> You might also reiterate your belief that 50% of American Jews are
> liars.. I’m sure folks would find that strange assertion of interest.
>
I might say that for the first time, but since I do not believe it, I will leave
it to you
to put up the alleged quote.
RLA
>
> >in Germany and France, and I believe in some other countries. He is a real
> >piece of work.
> >I often disagree with Matt Giwer, but I find him rational and intelligent.
> >This is more than
> >I can say for McVay, for whom I have developed a fine contempt.
>
> Please do redefine this “Holocaust Orthodoxy,” Mr. Alexander. I expect
> it will prove as embarrassing for you this time as it did the last.
>
Please put ‘er up and we’ll discuss her. I look forward to it like a visit to
the dentist,
or to the surgeon, but I am game.
RLA
>
> Giwer?
>
> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
> interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
> plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
> accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not
> to see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even
> when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and
> generally conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual
> and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking
> the time to read and respond. For detailed and documented
> evidence of this, please refer to
> https://nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>
> If you do not enjoy the luxury of a news filter, simply delete Mr.
> Giwer’s articles unread. With a few moments’ practice, they are easy
> to identify.
>
> Mr. Giwer’s handlers report that he has responded well to training, and
> now reacts in the prescribed manner, changing his userid each time the
> bell is sounded.
>
> Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer’s special
> newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
> ignored (the group has no users – it’s just a convenient toilet for
> Matt’s vomitus). If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
> redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
> an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.
>
> Crawler bait: [email protected] Matthias Giwer
> Lincoln James <[email protected]> Matthias Giwer
> Kainee <[email protected]> Matt Giwer
> Rabbi Moshe Dreckschreiber
> Rabbi Dr. Gedalia Pashkvilkemacher
>
> —
> IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany
> and America’s Most Powerful Corporation, by Edwin Black
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609607995/thenizkorproject/
> The Nizkor Project: https://nizkor.org
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:51 EST 2001
Article: 870174 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
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<3AA01[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Mr McVay is a low life sort of person.
> >I regret getting into a piss fight with this skunk.
>
> On the other hand, you don’t mind saying that 50% of American Jews are
> liars… interesting.
>
> >> Sorry, Mr. Alexander, but that is incorrect (as usual, in your case).
I was wrong the other day about the crazy group torturing a Palestinian.
When I am wrong I generally admit it. Other than that, I would be in your debt
to show me the error of my ways. I would bet you have no examples
(that you can document).
RLA
>
> >> B’nai Brith Canada does not contribute to the Nizkor fund, it simply
> >> accepts donations and disberses funds on Nizkor’s behalf. If the
> >> donations dry up, as they sometimes do, no funds are available.
> >>
> >
> >You want disburse not disberse. B’nai Brith could not exist if Jews did not
> >contribute to it. There may be a point in there somewhere, but I fail
> >to see it. If B’nai Brith did not want you to continue, it would shut off your
> >funds.
>
> The point, Mr. Alexander, is that B’nai Brith does not provide my
> funding. I am not in the least surprised that you do not understand,
> but that’s your problem, not mine. You made the false claim that
> Nizkor was funding by B’nai Brith, and I called you on it.
>
The point is that from your own statements, your money comes through B;nai
Brith. I said, and I stand by it, if B’nai Brith didn’t want you doing what you
do so well in your little corner of the Holocaust Industry, you would be out
tomorrow.
RLA
> Live with it, Bubba.
I notice that Mr. McVay cannot back up his assertions. Indeed he can’t deal with
any
point I raised. One more time he defames me by asserting that I had
claimed that: “that 50% of American Jews are
liars… interesting.” /see above. I had requested him to provide substantiation.
He didn’t. For the record, I do not believe Jews as a group are liars,
no substantial portion of them, certainly not half. Now the Zionists on this
board are another matter. These people lie for pastime, and propagate the
current party line as fervently as any Communist ever did their line.
I reproduce below the whol post that he has snipped. the reader can see that
he has failed to take up the gauntlet, contenting himself iwth repeating
his defamatory falsehoods, and ending by calling me “Bubba”,
which in the south means a good ol’ boy, generally one of limited intelligence
though of good heart. I understand it means an old woman in another
idiom. In either case it is derogatory. All I say is is that he can’t debate.
I have come to despise him.
BTW, he didn’t put up the allegedly wrong and embarrassing definition
of the Holocaust I supposedly put up either. Maybe he will find
something, may be won’t. I bet he doesn’t. He is rather windy.
RLA
Mr McVay is a low life sort of person.
I regret getting into a piss fight with this skunk.
But Oh well.
Comments interspersed.
RLA
“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> >This idiot McVay runs a small subsidiary of the Holocaust Industry, known
> >as Nizkor.
> >It has no means of making money that I know of, and so depends entirely on
> >contributions
> >from B’nai Brith Canada. One of their efforts is “exposing” those who
>
> Sorry, Mr. Alexander, but that is incorrect (as usual, in your case).
> B’nai Brith Canada does not contribute to the Nizkor fund, it simply
> accepts donations and disberses funds on Nizkor’s behalf. If the
> donations dry up, as they sometimes do, no funds are available.
>
You want disburse not disberse. B’nai Brith could not exist if Jews did not
contribute to it. There may be a point in there somewhere, but I fail
to see it. If B’nai Brith did not want you to continue, it would shut off your
funds.
Period.
RLA
> >differ with the Holocaust Orthodoxy, which is sought to be made illegal to
> >argue with, and has so been made illegal
>
> The last time you defined this “Holocaust Orthodoxy,” Mr. Alexander,
> you embarrassed yourself. Perhaps you would like to do so once again,
> and define it for your new readers.
>
Perhaps you would like to put up this alleged definition and explain what about
it is embarrassing to me.
RLA
>
> You might also reiterate your belief that 50% of American Jews are
> liars.. I’m sure folks would find that strange assertion of interest.
>
I might say that for the first time, but since I do not believe it, I will leave
it to you
to put up the alleged quote.
RLA
>
> >in Germany and France, and I believe in some other countries. He is a real
> >piece of work.
> >I often disagree with Matt Giwer, but I find him rational and intelligent.
> >This is more than
> >I can say for McVay, for whom I have developed a fine contempt.
>
> Please do redefine this “Holocaust Orthodoxy,” Mr. Alexander. I expect
> it will prove as embarrassing for you this time as it did the last.
>
Please put ‘er up and we’ll discuss her. I look forward to it like a visit to
the dentist,
or to the surgeon, but I am game.
RLA
>
> Giwer?
>
> Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
> interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
> plausible, he has lied** about what has been said in exchanges (while
> accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not
> to see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even
> when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel*, and
> generally conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual
> and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking
> the time to read and respond. For detailed and documented
> evidence of this, please refer to
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:52 EST 2001
Article: 870231 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.canada,
soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
References: <[email protected]> <3AA01[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3AA03[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> […]
>
> [I said]
>
> >> The point, Mr. Alexander, is that B’nai Brith does not provide my
> >> funding. I am not in the least surprised that you do not understand,
> >> but that’s your problem, not mine. You made the false claim that
> >> Nizkor was funding by B’nai Brith, and I called you on it.
>
> >The point is that from your own statements, your money comes through B;nai
> >Brith. I said, and I stand by it, if B’nai Brith didn’t want you doing what you
> >do so well in your little corner of the Holocaust Industry, you would be out
> >tomorrow.
>
> Switching horses, Mr. Alexander? First you claimed that B’nai Brith
> Canada “funded” Nizkor. That, as I pointed out, is not true. Now you
> appear to be shifting ground.
>
> Why is that, Mr. Alexander? Is it that you are hoping no one will
> notice?
>
> You made a false claim. You were called on it. Live with it.
>
I said that Jews gave money to B’nai Brith. They exist on it. Some of
that money they give to you. If they decide they don’t want you to
continue with your crazy project, they will stop the funding.
That looks to me like control. You assert that some of the money
they collect is earmarked for your project. That may be true,
but I would guess that much of that is guided by B’nai Brith.
Since they aren’t going to open their books, I can’t do more.
RLA
>
> By the way, Mr. Alexander… The United Church (British Columbia) once
> processed my funding.. do you suppose there was a “Christian
> conspiracy” to maintain your “Holocaust Orthodoxy?”
>
> What _is_ this “Holocaust Orthodoxy,” Mr. Alexander? Is it
> “protected” by the United Church?
>
> How about the Roman Catholic foundation that supported my work in
> 1997-1998, Mr. Alexander? Were they part of a Zionist conspiracy too?
>
> It is to laugh.
>
The reader will notice that McVay does not here as he did not before
deal with the other issues that he raised, like my having said that
50 % of American Jews are liars. I never said any such rubbish.
Notice that he snips everything else, when I had laboriously gone and gotten
my original reply, and challenge. He is truly sucks. Of course,
he is also lying.
On the issue of support by Christians, this is not unreasonable, given
their feelings about the holocaust. I have the same feelings. The notion
that any country could and would imprison and starve, and otherwise
kill an entire religious or whatever group is nauseous to me. For many
years I couldn’t look at a German person without thinking how could
a nation so intelligent go so crazy. Now I look at the Israelis the same
way.
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:53 EST 2001
Article: 870491 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.canada,
soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
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<3AA05[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> […]
>
> >> Switching horses, Mr. Alexander? First you claimed that B’nai Brith
> >> Canada “funded” Nizkor. That, as I pointed out, is not true. Now you
> >> appear to be shifting ground.
> >>
> >> Why is that, Mr. Alexander? Is it that you are hoping no one will
> >> notice?
> >>
> >> You made a false claim. You were called on it. Live with it.
>
> >I said that Jews gave money to B’nai Brith. They exist on it. Some of
>
> No, Mr. Alexander. You said that Nizkor was funded by B’nai Brith
> Canada, and that is not true.
>
> >that money they give to you. If they decide they don’t want you to
> >continue with your crazy project, they will stop the funding.
>
> They cannot stop the funding, Mr. Alexander, although they could stop
> managing it for me. It would take perhaps 5 minutes to move the fund
> to another organization.
>
> >That looks to me like control. You assert that some of the money
> >they collect is earmarked for your project. That may be true,
>
> ALL of the money that goes to the Nizkor fund GOES to the Nizkor fund,
> Mr. Alexander. B’nai Brith has no control over that. Whether you
> believe it or not is of no interest to me. After all, your reputation
> as a Jew-baiter and antisemite precedes you.
>
You are a smear artist, par excellence. I am neither a Jewbaiter nor
an anitsemite. I oppose Zionist oppression of Palestinians, which
bothers you not at all. You are like alot of Zionist sympathizers,
all of the ones I have dealt with in fact. You equate antiZionism
with antisemitism.
> As to control, perhaps I should explain something to you – something
> many others have learned to their great disappointment. I cannot BE
> “controlled,” and Nizkor isn’t going anywhere, with or without
> organizational support.
>
> Live with it, pal. I’m the most ferociously independent sob you’ll
> ever confront, and Nizkor’s here to stay, period. Nizkor existed long
> before the Jewish community discovered it, and it will remain
> regardless of _who_ supports it or does not support it.
>
> >but I would guess that much of that is guided by B’nai Brith.
> >Since they aren’t going to open their books, I can’t do more.
>
> But they have opened their books, Mr. Alexander. The federal
> government has been through them with a fine toothed comb. That you
> aren’t sufficiently informed is your problem, not mine.
>
> Do you still assert that half of America’s Jews are liars, Mr.
> Alexander?
>
I notice once again that you as a consummate smear artist, have
not brought forth any evidence that I ever asserted that. You
are not only a liar, but a defamer. The Big Lie was a technique
of the Nazis. You appear to have learnt it well.
RLA
> –
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:53 EST 2001
Article: 870493 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.canada,
soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
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No, jerk, they aren’t. The B;’nai Brith in the US is an evil
organization.
Their offshoot, the ADL, has carried on a campaign of intimidation,
defamation, and assorted other crimes and torts which is scary.
Many posts pointing this out have been put up here, and I am sure you
had an opportunity to see them. If not, I can get some of them and
put them up for you.
RLA
Omri Schwarz wrote:
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >
> > I said that Jews gave money to B’nai Brith. They exist on it.
>
> Roger, one seldom succeeds in curing you
> of your chronic ignorance, but I’ll give
> it the old college try.
>
> Bnai Brith is the Jewish version of
> the Knights of Columbus.
>
> —
> Omri Schwarz —
> Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
> “Noise is principally due to the presence of the
> patient.” — R.F. Farr
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:53 EST 2001
Article: 870494 of alt.revisionism
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
References: <[email protected]> <97p8s[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<1cWn6.3168$iu4.16[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> [Roger “I’m not an antisemite, I just hate Jews” Alexander wrote}
>
> >> point I raised. One more time he defames me by asserting that I had
> >> claimed that: “that 50% of American Jews are
> >> liars… interesting.” /see above. I had requested him to provide
> >substantiation.
> >> He didn’t. For the record, I do not believe Jews as a group are liars,
> >> no substantial portion of them, certainly not half. Now the Zionists on
> >this
> > board are another matter. These people lie for pastime, and propagate the
>
> Precisely, Mr. Alexander. I once asked you to tell me how many Jews
> YOU thought were “Zionists.”
>
> You asserted that 50% of American Jews were Zionists.
>
> Ergo, by your own definition, 50% of American Jews are liars.
>
> Hoist by your own petard, eh, Mr. Alexander?
>
> You are such a transparent ass.
Fifty per cent of American Jews do not put forth lies like the ones seen
on this board. RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:01:54 EST 2001
Article: 870516 of alt.revisionism
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In
Germany
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I realize that this idiot intends to rile me up. He has succeeded,
I grant him that. He continues to say I called half of American Jews liars.
I didn’t. Since lying doesn’t bother him he continues to make the
assertion.
RLA
“Kenneth McVay, OBC” wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> […]
>
> >You are a smear artist, par excellence. I am neither a Jewbaiter nor
> >an anitsemite. I oppose Zionist oppression of Palestinians, which
> >bothers you not at all. You are like alot of Zionist sympathizers,
> >all of the ones I have dealt with in fact. You equate antiZionism
> >with antisemitism.
>
> Of course you’re an antisemite, Mr. Alexander… anyone who claims
> that half of American Jewry are liars fits that description rather
> well.
>
> >> As to control, perhaps I should explain something to you – something
> >> many others have learned to their great disappointment. I cannot BE
> >> “controlled,” and Nizkor isn’t going anywhere, with or without
> >> organizational support.
> >>
> >> Live with it, pal. I’m the most ferociously independent sob you’ll
> >> ever confront, and Nizkor’s here to stay, period. Nizkor existed long
> >> before the Jewish community discovered it, and it will remain
> >> regardless of _who_ supports it or does not support it.
> >>
> >> >but I would guess that much of that is guided by B’nai Brith.
> >> >Since they aren’t going to open their books, I can’t do more.
> >>
> >> But they have opened their books, Mr. Alexander. The federal
> >> government has been through them with a fine toothed comb. That you
> >> aren’t sufficiently informed is your problem, not mine.
> >>
> >> Do you still assert that half of America’s Jews are liars, Mr.
> >> Alexander?
> >>
>
> >I notice once again that you as a consummate smear artist, have
> >not brought forth any evidence that I ever asserted that. You
> >are not only a liar, but a defamer. The Big Lie was a technique
> >of the Nazis. You appear to have learnt it well.
>
> You have said that Zionists are (among other things) liars.
> When I asked you how many Jews were Zionists, you said “at least 50%,
> at least in the United States,” or something very similar.
>
> Ergo, the conclusion is inescapable: You have called half of America’s
> Jews Zionists, and therefore liars.
>
> Not an antisemite, Mr. Alexander? Pull the other one.
>
> —
> “…I note that on the few occasions of which I am aware where purveyors of
> anti-Semitic propaganda have endeavoured to justify their materials in
> court on the facts and the merits, they have been singularly unsuccessful…”
> (http://www2.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/people/s/scully-olga/reason.html)
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:40 EST 2001
Article: 531885 of soc.culture.jewish
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Subject: Extremism in Israel Is Fueled by a Growing Ultra-Orthodox Movement in
the U.S. By Allan C. Brownfeld
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http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/010201/0101071.html
Washington Report pm Middle East Affairs
JANUARY/FEBRUARY 2001, Pages 71-72
Israel & Judaism
Extremism in Israel Is Fueled by a Growing Ultra-Orthodox Movement in
the U.S.
By Allan C. Brownfeld
In the years since the end of World War II, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish
community has seen dramatic growth in the U.S. and has been influential
in
fueling extremism and terrorism in Israel.
While fewer than 100,000 Orthodox European Jews entered the country
after
1945, their effects were profound. “Only the religious believers had a
clear and unshakable answer to the question of why be a Jew,” Rabbi
Arthur
Hertzberg has written. These particular believers, according to
Hertzberg,
“asserted the most uncompromising, separatist version of the Jewish
religionŠFor the first time in modern American history, the secular
humanistic impulse of American JewryŠfaced the challenge of a vibrant,
charismatic and almost completely antithetical belief system with
institutions and folkways of its ownŠMost American Jews surely thought
they
had left all that behind in Europe decades earlier.”
In his book Jew Vs. Jew, Samuel Freedman, a professor of journalism at
Columbia University, shows that the divisions among American Jews are
profound: “To say that American Jews differ on the issue-recent polls
find
about two-thirds favoring the land-for-peace formula-is to see only the
surface of a widening chasm. The poll numbers in many ways mask the
reality. Aside from an energetic and visible leadership, the Jews who
support the Oslo agreements are largely those disengaged from Israel in
all
but sentimental
ways. The opposition, resting disproportionately in the Orthodox
population,
is the segment of American Jewry most involved with Israel, most
committed to
it in concrete actions. This passionate minority has dominated the peace
issue, influencing events from the halls of Congress to the settlements
of
the West Bank, arguing on grounds of both security and Torah that Israel
must never surrender the lands won in 1967. And while the right wing of
American Jewry has expressed itself primarily through political
activity,
its fringe elements have repeatedly turned to inflammatory rhetoric and
violent acts both in the U.S. and Israel. Yigal Amir’s trail to the
murder
of Yitzhak Rabin, it might be said, was one partly blazed by American
Jews.”
“The lineage of American extremists led directly to Baruch Goldstein.”
Some of the violence which has taken place in Israel has, in fact, been
perpetrated by Orthodox American Jewish émigrés. In 1980, a terrorist
band
known as the Jewish Underground, including an American émigré named Ezra
Rapaport, tried to assassinate three Arab mayors of West Bank towns with
car
bombs. Two years later, another American, Alan Goodman, opened fire on
Muslim worshippers at the Dome of the Rock, killing one Palestinian and
provoking rioting.
“The lineage of American extremists,” writes Freedman, “led directly to
Kiryat Arba’s doctor, a former New Yorker named Baruch Goldstein.
Goldstein
studied with Meir Kahane. He closely followed Alan Goodman’s attack at
the
Dome of the Rock. And on Feb. 25, 1994 he enacted a more successful
version
of it, shooting to death 29 Muslim worshippers at a mosque in HebronŠAn
American Hasidic rabbi in the West Bank city of Nablus, Yitzhak
Ginsburg,
oversaw the publication of a memorial book glorifying Goldstein as ‘the
Saint, may God avenge his blood.’
One of those who read it was Yigal Amir.”
In American Orthodox Jewish circles there were a number of prominent
individuals who encouraged such extremism. A figure widely respected in
Orthodox circles, the Talmud scholar Herschel Schachter of Yeshiva
University,
asserted that Rabin hated God and Torah. Another Yeshiva professor, the
rabbi
and medical ethicist Moshe Tendler, delivered the eulogy at Meir
Kahane’s
funeral.
Nor have right-wing pressure and terrorist acts been confined to Israel
and
Palestine. On the same morning of Goldstein’s massacre in early 1994,
extremists placed bombs inside the Manhattan offices of two liberal
groups,
the New Israel Fund and Americans for Peace Now. When the Conference of
Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations scheduled a memorial
service for Rabin at Madison Square Garden in December 1995, they were
pressured by Oslo foes to ban any reference to the “peace process” in
the
event’s program or speeches. Even at that, both the Zionist Organization
of
America and Agudath Israel of America boycotted the event.
The case of Baruch Goldstein highlights the connection between Jewish
extremism in the U.S. and Israel. Goldstein, a militant Zionist from New
York, had been a member of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), founded by
the
late Meir Kahane. Kahane urged his followers to emigrate to Israel and
called for the removal of all Arabs from the West Bank. After the
violent
mass murder at Hebron, Goldstein was viewed as a hero by many of the
Israeli settlers. At
his funeral, Rabbi Yaacov Perrin declared that, “One million Arabs are
not
worth a Jewish fingernail.” Shmuel Hacohen, a teacher in a Jerusalem
college, said: “Baruch Goldstein was the greatest Jew alive, not in one
way
but in
every wayŠThere are no innocent Arabs hereŠHe was no crazyŠKilling isn’t
nice, but sometimes it is necessary.”
Kahane’s Nuremburg Laws
Goldstein’s hero, Meir Kahane, had moved to Israel in 1971 and was
popular
enough to win a seat in the Knesset under the banner of his Kach Party.
He
developed legislation for The Prevention of Assimilation Between Jews
and
Non-Jews and for the Sanctity of the Jewish People. It called, among
other
things, for separate beaches for Jews and non-Jews and for an end to
mixed
summer camps and community centers. His legislation, much like Nazi
Germany’s Nuremburg Laws, declared that, “Jews are forbidden to marry
non-JewsŠmixed marriages will not be recognized in the countries in
which
they were heldŠ
Jews are forbidden to have sexual relations of any sort with non-JewsŠ”
