Since you sons of bitches want to deport the Palestinians from the West
Bank,
I would guess you really mean you want to deport those who disagree with
your racist oppression out of Palestine altogether.
Jordan comes next, Lebanon, then Syria and Egypt.
RLA
meshehu wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Roger Alexander
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thank God for people like Gila
> > Svirsky and her group.
>
> They should all be deported to the west bank.
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:42 EST 2001
Article: 258469 of soc.culture.canada
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Baruch Goldstein saved lives (Was: Re: THE HEBRON MASSACRE)
References: <3A987207.73B2EA3[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3A98761E.CCB8E6C[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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I have never heard these arguments before, and frankly, I don’t believe them.
I note that btzedek apparently put out three issues before folding in 1998,
or at least they never updated their internet page. This rag, BTW features
such notables as Louis Rene Beres, a rabid Zionist (anyone who wants to
see him in action just do a web search, he has pages and pages on the Net)
and Steven Plaut, another stalwart, much beloved by none other than Hank Roth.
The facts remain what they were: Goldstein took several weapons into the
mosque where people were praying and shot dead some 29 of them, while
shortly thereafter another about 24 were killed by other vicious Zionists.
If the good doctor thought there was an Arab massacre coming, which was
very unlikely, given that the Arabs didn’t have weapons, he could have reported this
to the police or IDF, which maintain a heavy presence in Hebron.
He didn’t, he is dead and may God rest his soul.
RLA
David Lee Makowsky wrote:
> Roger believes this is a lie with no evidence. I suggest that he
> should take a look at these references. I have posted at least one of
> them (perhaps all of them) before in a prior dispute with Howard
> Aubrey about this:
>
> http://www.manfredlehmann.com/sieg417.html
> http://www.manfredlehmann.com/sieg418.html
> http://www.btzedek.co.il/revision.htm – This one contains a general
> history of Hevron with a note on Baruch Goldstein (May his Memory be
> for a Blessing) towards the end.
>
> As for who tells the truth and who lies, it is Roger and not I who
> posted this:
>
> “I just post them, I don’t take responsibility for the truth of them.”
> From Roger Alexander <[email protected]> in article
> <[email protected]>
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> # PUre unadulterated lie. There is no evidence whatever of any plot.
> # To assert that people who were peacefully praying were plotting
> # anything is ridiculous on its face. Only Zionists in the world today
> # try to scam the world with this sort of Big Lie.
> # RLA
> #
> # David Lee Makowsky wrote:
> #
> # > This article is from the same dufus who was forced to post:
> # >
> # > “I just post them, I don’t take responsibility for the truth of them.”
> # > From Roger Alexander <[email protected]> in article
> # > <[email protected]>
> # >
> # > The fact of the matter is that the “palestinians?” were planning a
> # > terrorist attack from this site. Baruch Goldstein, who had many
> # > friends killed and injured in previous attacks, learned about these
> # > plans and tried to have the IDF stop it. They would not do anything,
> # > so in order to save lives Baruch Goldstein acted.
> # >
> # > Any blame for the death of innocents lies squarely with the IDF for
> # > not taking the necessary actions, and of course with the
> # > “palestinians?” terrorists themselves.
> # >
> # > In article <[email protected]>,
> # > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> # > # THE HEBRON MASSACRE
> # > #
> # > # By Omar Turk
> # > #
> # > # In the early morning of February 25th, 1994, one of the most heinous
> # > # acts upon
> # > # humanity occurred in the Palestinian town of Hebron. A Jewish zionist
> # > # terrorist
> # > # opened fire with machine-guns and grenades on men and boys while they
> # > # were
> # > # bowing and praying to God. This crime against innocent people not only
> # > # occurred
> # > # in the holy month of Ramadhan, but also in the Ibrahimi mosque, where
> # > # the prophet
> # > # Abraham is buried.
> # > #
> # > # That frightful morning, over twenty-nine people were killed, and over
> # > # one hundred
> # > # wounded. The ages of those killed ranged from only eight years old, to
> # > # over
> # > # seventy years of age! The shear magnitude of how many people were
> # > # affected
> # > # in that act of racist hatred is almost incomprehensible. The women who
> # > # lost
> # > # their husbands and sons, the children who lost their fathers and
> # > # brothers,
> # > # etc, etc. For those who were wounded, even the most superficial wound
> # > # leaves
> # > # a scar for life. The high number of people permanently debilitated, or
> # > # seriously
> # > # physically or physiologically scarred, is distressing.
> # > #
> # > # Ironically, this atrocity was committed by a person who hated others
> # > # because
> # > # of their race. This mass murderer was ironically in Hebron because of
> # > # another
> # > # person who hated others because of their race; Hitler.
> # > #
> # > # The Isrealis have been granted land, money, and special privileges
> # > # because
> # > # of the so-called “Holocaust.” In turn, they are creating a “Holocaust”
> # > # for
> # > # the Palestinian people. The Isreali soldiers and settlers desecrate
> # > # every
> # > # aspect of Palestinian life, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. These gun
> # > # totting,
> # > # trigger happy gangsters, kill and maim Palestinian men, women and
> # > # children
> # > # at the blink of an eye, and without a whisper of shame from the
> # > # so-called, civilized, democratic governments, most notably, the United
> # > # States.
> # > # To add insult to injury, the Isrealis receive more US aid each year
> # > # than the
> # > # victims of the Midwest floods, California earthquakes, and East
> # > # Coast storms have in the last 10 years! I am sure the billions of
> # > # dollars
> # > # sent to the Isrealis each year, is of no comfort to the many of poor and
> # > #
> # > # homeless
> # > # Americans forced to live and die on the streets because of the
> # > # bankrupt welfare and public health care system in the US. The Isrealis
> # > # also
> # > # receive unlimited US veto power and
> # > # support in the United Nations, that has not, nor probably never will be,
> # > #
> # > # paralleled.
> # > #
> # > # Through hardship after tragedy, the Palestinian people have remarkably
> # > # survived.
> # > # Their sheer will and determination for freedom, have been their only
> # > # companion
> # > # since 1948.
> # > #
> # > # With heavily armed, Isreali soldiers and settlers occupying and stealing
> # > #
> # > # Palestinian
> # > # land and lives, and the world turning a blind and ignorant eye,
> # > # generation
> # > # after generation of Palestinian children will continue to
> # > # struggle with stones and hope, until true justice is practiced, and
> # > # freedom
> # > # is achieved.
> # > #
> # > # The world must realize, that until the illegal settlements are
> # > # dismantled,
> # > # the refugees are allowed to return to their homes, and Jerusalem is the
> # > # capital
> # > # of the Palestinian state, peace will not be reached. The Palestinian
> # > # dream
> # > # is a simple dream, and the same dream of all peoples, to live in peace
> # > # and
> # > # freedom, and not under occupation and terror.
> # > #
> # > # In the mean time, Isreali zionist terrorists, such as Barouch Goldstien,
> # > #
> # > # will
> # > # have a free hand to continue their murderous rampages. (originally
> # > # written
> # > # March 16, 1994)
> # > #
> # > #
> # > #
> # >
> # > —
> # > There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at
> # > math and those that are not.
> # >
> # > [email protected]
> #
>
> —
> There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at
> math and those that are not.
>
> [email protected]
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:42 EST 2001
Article: 258473 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Re: Bat Shalom – Protesting the closure today
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meshehu wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Roger Alexander
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Since you sons of bitches want to deport the Palestinians from the West
> > Bank,
> > I would guess you really mean you want to deport those who disagree with
> >
> > your racist oppression out of Palestine altogether.
> > Jordan comes next, Lebanon, then Syria and Egypt.
>
> None of them live in Israel, you moron.
I’ll spell it out for the pea brain.
Once Israel cleanses Palestine of Palestinians, it will do the same to
Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt.
ISRAEL UBER ALLES!
Got it? I thought you could.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:42 EST 2001
Article: 258475 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Unequal treatment in the Middle East By DAVID HIRST
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“If any Israeli leader ever had the makings of a Western villain, the
destroyer of U.S. interests in the region, it is surely Sharon. ”
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?eo20010221a1.htm
EDITORIAL
Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Unequal treatment in the Middle East
By DAVID HIRST
Special to The Japan Times
Beirut — The Israelis have just elected a prime minister who, brought
before the bar of international justice, would surely be judged a war
criminal in the class of, say, Ratko Mladic, the Bosnian Serb commander
who is as firmly associated with the Srebrenica massacre as Gen. Ariel
Sharon was with that of Sabra and Shatila during the 1982 Israeli
invasion of Lebanon. Sharon calls Palestinian Authority leader Yasser
Arafat “a murderer and a liar,” but in the runup to the elections, the
liberal Israeli press gave full play to the deceit and brutality that
have been the twin pillars of his own career. One of his likely
coalition partners, Avigdor Liebermann, has spoken of burning Beirut,
bombing Tehran and destroying the Aswan Dam. His ideas on the
furtherance of the peace process make a total mockery of it. If any
Israeli leader ever had the makings of a Western villain, the destroyer
of U.S. interests in the region, it is surely Sharon.
Yet, within a week of the emergence of this would-be villain as Israel’s
premier-elect, whom do the Americans and British go and bomb? That old,
familiar, Arab villain, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Of course, his
crimes and atrocities are of an order that words can barely describe.
Keeping him from committing more of them is one thing, however; the
motives and methods of those who, once again, have assigned themselves
that task — and the whole regional context in which they do it — is
something else.
According to the Americans and British, Friday’s raid, the first on such
a scale for over two years, was necessitated by the upgrading of
Hussein’s defenses and the increased threat that posed to their
aircraft’s routine forays over the “no-fly zones.” Even if that is true,
it has few takers in the Arab world. For the Arabs, the raid is a clear
escalation of the Anglo-American campaign against Hussein, with more
political import than military. With the rise of Sharon, there could
hardly have been a more blatant or more richly symbolic display of the
double standards that, in their view, typify Western (especially
American) treatment of those two great zones of perennial Middle East
crisis, the Arab-Israeli conflict on the one hand and Iraq and the
Persian Gulf on the other. It bodes ill for both.
Each crisis has its own origins and dynamics. Yet they are, and always
have been, intrinsically connected. Hussein himself pioneered what came
to be known as “linkage,” when, immediately after his invasion of Kuwait
in 1990, he offered to withdraw in return for an immediate,
unconditional Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. The
offer was greeted with cries of outrage in the West. The United States
would not dream of subjecting Israel to such blackmail for the sake of a
solution in the Gulf. But in due course, linkage surreptitiously
asserted itself. Then President George Bush promulgated a “new world
order” whose cornerstone in the Middle East was to be a just and lasting
Arab-Israeli settlement. America’s Arab allies understood that to
achieve it, the U.S. would back way form its historic pro-Israeli bias.
“Bush,” said Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak at the time, “agrees with
me that the Israelis must be pushed into a Palestine solution.” Fairness
and firmness in one crisis zone were to work wonders in the other, and
vice versa.
But it was not to be. Both crises have festered and worsened. Hussein
grows stronger and more assertive; as for his weapons of mass
destruction, whose destruction is the central aim of U.S. policy, it has
become clear that nothing short of his own removal from power can
prevent him from developing them. On the Arab-Israeli front, the peace
process has all but collapsed; violence and mutual hatred deepens.
Pernicious though these two crises are on their own, they are even more
malignant together. And, with the ascent of Sharon, both have as their
key players two individuals who incarnate all that is most extreme,
dangerous and destructive in the region.
This, then, is the moment that the U.S., under a new administration, has
chosen to embark on a more activist policy in one zone of crisis. That,
presumably, is what the raid portends. Leading members of the Bush team,
notably Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, are known to favor a more
forceful interpretation of the Iraqi Liberation Act — under which the
U.S. is supposed to help the Iraqi opposition bring about
“representative” government in Iraq — to which Clinton merely paid lip
service.
The raid may please the Iraqi opposition, or some of it, as well as
Persian Gulf countries, or some of their ruling elites, which are most
directly threatened by Hussein, but it is deeply unpopular in the wider
Arab arena. The Arabs — people especially but governments, too — have
been growing steadily more hostile to American-led “containment” of
Iraq; key Arab countries are making ever greater breaches in the U.N.
sanctions. Indeed, supporting Iraq has become a necessary yardstick of
patriotism, even for a devoutly pro-Western ruler such as King Abdullah
of Jordan, second only to supporting the intifada.
This is not for love of Hussein or out of any hostility toward Iraqis
who seek to overthrow him. It is because of natural solidarity with a
fellow-Arab country — and, more than ever now, because of linkage, and
outrage at the way the world’s only superpower penalizes Arabs for their
misdemeanors but never its Israeli ally. “It is clear what the U.S. is
now about,” said an Iraqi exile in Beirut. “It wants erring Arab regimes
to correct their priorities, to re-establish Saddam, not Sharon, as the
real enemy; it may have some success in the Gulf, but in general, and
unfortunately for us Iraqis who have most reason to hate him, it is
turning him into an Arab champion again.”
In truth, no one revels in linkage like Hussein. He outbids Arab leaders
in his militancy, castigating those who “don’t know how to fight.” While
others quarrel over the disposal of an official billion-dollar “intifada
fund,” he gives money directly to the families of Palestinian martyrs.
In the wake of the latest raid, he ordered the formation of 21 divisions
of the Jerusalem Liberation Army, an ostensibly volunteer force with the
mission of reconquering Palestine “from the river (Jordan) to the sea.”
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell begins an inaugural tour of the
Middle East next week. The raid will have made his task more difficult
than ever. There is no way he can persuade pro-Western Arab regimes,
increasingly nervous of the anti-American feelings of their publics, to
assist American efforts to manage either zone of crisis, if that means
they must line up behind a more aggressive policy against Hussein in the
one, while simultaneously adjusting themselves to the outrageous
requirements of Sharon in the other.
There could always be a miracle, namely, that in resorting to a new
activism against Hussein, Bush will do the same against the
Hussein-equivalent in Israel. But judging by the lack of any perceptible
official alarm at Sharon’s election, he will have to wreak a great deal
of havoc before such a miracle occurs and America begins to think of
fairness, and true objectivity, as a sensible way of saving the Middle
East from the twin calamities that surely await it.
David Hirst is the Middle East correspondent of the London Guardian.
Based in Beirut, he has been covering the region for 30 years.
The Japan Times: Feb. 21, 2001
(C) All rights reserved web site :
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:43 EST 2001
Article: 258478 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Re: Israel stymies U.S. aid efforts – Import curbs, travel restrictions
snarl projects in Palestinian territories
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Albert Reingewirtz wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, ajax grandjean
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > David Lee Makowsky wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > # Israel stymies U.S. aid efforts
> > > # Import curbs, travel restrictions snarl projects in Palestinian
> > > # territories
> > >
> > > # By WILLIAM A. ORME JR.
> > > # New York Times
> > >
> > > # JERUSALEM — Israel’s increasingly strict controls on the movement of
> > > # Palestinian goods and people are paralyzing U.S. government economic
> > > # development projects in the Palestinian territories, U.S. officials here
> > > # said as Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived in the region Saturday.
> > >
> > > # Building projects have been stalled by Israeli import restrictions, and
> > > # local participants in economic training programs cannot travel freely to
> > > # courses within the territories or abroad, diplomats said.
> > >
> > > [ Parts deleted – dlm ]
> > >
> > > # ======================================
> > >
> > > # Israel is just so consistently inhuman, so busy doing evil at every
> > > # turn, it is hard to
> > > # conceive how a country could be so outrageous. There will eventually be
> > > # a resolution
> > > # of this terrible oppression, but I suspect that many people now living
> > > # will go to their
> > > # graves despising the bastards who run that barbaric country.
> > > # Note, if you will, that every adult Israeli Jew, less the Orthodox, who
> > > # lead charmed lives,
> > > # must serve in the army, not once but every year. Thus almost the entire
> > > # adult
> > > # population of Israel are explicitly complicit with this ongoing
> > > # atrocity.
> > > # Bastards all.
> > >
> > > First of all, many (I believe most) of the orthodox men do serve in
> > > the army Roger.
> > >
> > > However, what is entirely outrageous about this is that the
> > > “palestinians?” on the one hand are doing everything they can to kill
> > > Jews, and on the other hand are complaining that Israel does not treat
> > > them like good neighbors.
> > >
> > > What’s next? A PLO resolution in the United Nations condeming Israeli
> > > civillians for aggresively bumping into an exploding car bomb?
> > > —
> > > There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good
> > > at
> > > math and those that are not.
> > >
> > > [email protected]
> >
> > Wait a minut !
> >
> > I am aa math teacher !
> > I know 400 palestinians are killed since the beginning of the
> > Intifada,
> > and 4000 others severely injured.
> >
> > As for the Jews : Number is about 20, including the Arabs of Israël.
> >
> > Don’t want an answer from bad faith !.
> >
> > John, Paris.
>
> The answer is very simple. Look at your own backyard. People with
> stones, guns, sticks who refuse to drop them end up dead in the USA.
> There is at least on such a person dead in California almost every day
> and rarely does a cop die from the confrontation because cops kill
> people with stones, sticks and guns who refuse to drop them let alone
> fire or throw the stone. Do the math and you will find that in the USA
> the balance sheet between death by those who use guns, stones, stick
> and cops is extremely weighted toward the stone throwers and such. The
> result, they are always exonerated even when no gun is found on the
> dead man. All the cop has to say is “I suspected that the dead man had
> a gun” and he is in the clear free to kill another man he suspect of
> having a gun.
> Compare the situation in a civilized area as the USA with a
> neighborhood where grenades, bombs explode anywhere any place and shots
> to kill Israeli’s is a daily occurrence. Go ahead Mr. mathematician do
> the math and you will find that in fact, not in theory Israel is
> restraining itself remarcably under the circumstances and should be
> praised for it.
Idiocy. There is no comparison to be drawn between a civilized country
and Israel. Israel today is the most (perhaps leaving out China in Tibet)
oppressive country oppressing another people in the world.
The only reason Israel hasn’t gone to the extreme and pushed the Palestinians
right out is that the world would finally not stand for it. Get real, idiot.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:43 EST 2001
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Was there heat in the house? Maybe that was his way of keeping warm.
Or maybe, the threat of being attacked prompted him to sleep with his
clothes on. What is it with you Zionists? When do you admit your actions
are just a nausea on the face of the earth? When you meet your maker?
RLA
Kim Bebbington wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:55:31 -0600, Roger Alexander
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >One of many many items. I’ve been reading so many reports of such
> >atrocities that it’s really tempting to give in and just “get used to
> >them.” It is certainly old news by the standards of the US media. Only
> >a
> >minuscule amount of the situation in the occupied territories is being
> >reported.
> >
> >And yet, pause for a moment and think about Usama. He is 18. He is not
> >a
> >soldier. He went to sleep on Wednesday in his own bed in his own house.
> >
> >We’ll never know if he had a chance to wake up before his death.
> >
> >And the US media keep referring to Gilo as a “suburb of Jerusalem”. It
> >is
> >not. It is a settlement built on land confiscated from Beit Jala, where
> >
> >Usama lived and died.
> >
> >-xxx xxxxxxxx (forwarder’s name left out)
> >
> >[To be removed from, or added to, this list, send me a note]
> >
> >Usama Al-Zughayer, killed while sleeping in his bed
>
> From Reuters:
> Palestinian civil defence officials aid the teenager who died had ben
> asleep when a tank shell hit his home, but his corpse was fully
> dressed and he was wearing boots.
>
> >Usama Al-Zughayer, 18 years old, was killed Wednesday night (February
> >20-21) while sleeping in his bed.
> >Facts:
> >Israeli military sources admitted that the shelling and bombardment of
> >Beit
> >Jala was not in response to Palestinian gunfire, but came after
> >intelligence information indicating that Palestinians planned to fire at
> >
> >the settlement of “Gilo” from Beit Jala.
> >Usama’s family, who were visiting friends when the shelling started,
> >were
> >unable to reach their house and check on what happened to their son and
> >their house for nearly two hours, due to the heavy fire directed at the
> >town from Israeli tanks and armor.
> >Palestinian Civil-Defense crews were also unable to reach the house
> >until
> >two hours later. They found Usama’s body buried under the debris of a
> >fallen wall. His leg was severed and found a few meters away and his
> >face
> >was mutilated. According to the Palestinian Civil Defense, the wall
> >behind
> >Usama’s bed took a direct hit from an Israeli shell that penetrated and
> >exploded next to his bed. The wall also crashed on his body.
> >
> >==========================================
> >
> >ISRAEL IS A TRULY HORRIBLE COUNTRY!
> >Israel is worse than South Africa ever was. Those people at least
> >had a conscience that could be appealled to (after, ofcourse, their
> >pocketbooks had first been touched). Israelis have no conscience,
> >they are true monsters.
> >RLA
> >
> >
> >Roger Alexander
> >
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:43 EST 2001
Article: 258513 of soc.culture.canada
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: Israel stymies U.S. aid efforts – Import curbs, travel restrictions
snarl projects in Palestinian territories
References: <3A99514B.E86[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<250220011501076796%[email protected]> <3A999268.FFE8502[email protected]> <[email protected]>
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David Lee Makowsky wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> # Albert Reingewirtz wrote:
>
> # > In article <[email protected]>, ajax grandjean
> # > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> # > > David Lee Makowsky wrote:
>
> # > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> # > > > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> # > > > # Israel stymies U.S. aid efforts
> # > > > # Import curbs, travel restrictions snarl projects in Palestinian
> # > > > # territories
>
> # > > > # By WILLIAM A. ORME JR.
> # > > > # New York Times
>
> # > > > # JERUSALEM — Israel’s increasingly strict controls on the movement of
> # > > > # Palestinian goods and people are paralyzing U.S. government economic
> # > > > # development projects in the Palestinian territories, U.S. officials here
> # > > > # said as Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived in the region Saturday.
>
> # > > > # Building projects have been stalled by Israeli import restrictions, and
> # > > > # local participants in economic training programs cannot travel freely to
> # > > > # courses within the territories or abroad, diplomats said.
>
> # > > > [ Parts deleted – dlm ]
>
> # > > > # ======================================
>
> # > > > # Israel is just so consistently inhuman, so busy doing evil at every
> # > > > # turn, it is hard to
> # > > > # conceive how a country could be so outrageous. There will eventually be
> # > > > # a resolution
> # > > > # of this terrible oppression, but I suspect that many people now living
> # > > > # will go to their
> # > > > # graves despising the bastards who run that barbaric country.
> # > > > # Note, if you will, that every adult Israeli Jew, less the Orthodox, who
> # > > > # lead charmed lives,
> # > > > # must serve in the army, not once but every year. Thus almost the entire
> # > > > # adult
> # > > > # population of Israel are explicitly complicit with this ongoing
> # > > > # atrocity.
> # > > > # Bastards all.
>
> # > > > First of all, many (I believe most) of the orthodox men do serve in
> # > > > the army Roger.
>
> # > > > However, what is entirely outrageous about this is that the
> # > > > “palestinians?” on the one hand are doing everything they can to kill
> # > > > Jews, and on the other hand are complaining that Israel does not treat
> # > > > them like good neighbors.
>
> # > > > What’s next? A PLO resolution in the United Nations condeming Israeli
> # > > > civillians for aggresively bumping into an exploding car bomb?
>
> # > > Wait a minut !
>
> # > > I am aa math teacher !
> # > > I know 400 palestinians are killed since the beginning of the
> # > > Intifada,
> # > > and 4000 others severely injured.
>
> # > > As for the Jews : Number is about 20, including the Arabs of Israël.
>
> # > > Don’t want an answer from bad faith !.
>
> # > The answer is very simple. Look at your own backyard. People with
> # > stones, guns, sticks who refuse to drop them end up dead in the USA.
> # > There is at least on such a person dead in California almost every day
> # > and rarely does a cop die from the confrontation because cops kill
> # > people with stones, sticks and guns who refuse to drop them let alone
> # > fire or throw the stone. Do the math and you will find that in the USA
> # > the balance sheet between death by those who use guns, stones, stick
> # > and cops is extremely weighted toward the stone throwers and such. The
> # > result, they are always exonerated even when no gun is found on the
> # > dead man. All the cop has to say is “I suspected that the dead man had
> # > a gun” and he is in the clear free to kill another man he suspect of
> # > having a gun.
> # > Compare the situation in a civilized area as the USA with a
> # > neighborhood where grenades, bombs explode anywhere any place and shots
> # > to kill Israeli’s is a daily occurrence. Go ahead Mr. mathematician do
> # > the math and you will find that in fact, not in theory Israel is
> # > restraining itself remarcably under the circumstances and should be
> # > praised for it.
>
> # Idiocy. There is no comparison to be drawn between a civilized country
> # and Israel. Israel today is the most (perhaps leaving out China in Tibet)
> # oppressive country oppressing another people in the world.
> # The only reason Israel hasn’t gone to the extreme and pushed the Palestinians
> # right out is that the world would finally not stand for it. Get real, idiot.
>
> This claim by Roger that Israel is oppressing the “palestinians?” when
> compared with what is actually happening leads to one of two
> conclusions:
>
> 1) Israelis are the most incompetent oppressors in the history of the
> world.
>
> Or
>
> 2) Roger is a liar and/or an idiot.
>
> Which is it people?
> —
> There are three types of people in the world. Those that are good at
> math and those that are not.
>
> [email protected]
Mr. Makowsky has a limited repertoire of idiotic remarks he makes.
Some, like the one purportedly responding to an article blasting
Israel, but only ad homineming me, is of the “So’s your old man”
variety, and is not a response at all.
This one setting up two alternatives, is a logical fallacy, in that
it purports to include all the possibilities. The technical name
is the fallacy of the excluded middle. It is perfectly possible
that Israel is a quite competent oppressor, and I would assert that
Israel is such, and further that this is the consensus of people
who are more expert than I.
The likeliest explanation for Israel’s not being even more ruthless
is that although Israelis have no conscience, or so I believe,
they have some regard for that part of the world which is
not the leadership of the United States. The ordinary person
even in the US, armed with the facts would exclaim that this
oppression is outrageous. The rest of the world is on record
time and again, in the UN where the votes condemning Israel
for its human rights violations run up to 153 to 2, the two
being US and Israel.
Again, I don’t believe that the mere consderation for
the opinion of mankind (decent or indecent) moves Israel.
I think the US restrains Israel because the US has to have
some regard for world opinion even if Israel does not.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:43 EST 2001
Article: 258535 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Ismail Zayid Canada Palestine Association to Sol Kasimer, YMCA Canada
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Last fall, the international YMCA went to occupied Palestine and wrote a
report
in support of their cause. They were then bombarded by international
Zionists.
The American and Canadian YMCA’s distanced themselves from the
international Y. This letter is in response to a letter in the Globe
and Mail
a Canadian newspaper, from the head of the Canadian Y. One must keep
in mind that the Globe and Mail is owned and run by Zionist interests.
RLA
From: Ismail Zayid
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 5:26 PM
Subject: Who is the biased party?
Canada Palestine Association
POBox 1085
Halifax, NS, B3J 2X1
Mr. Sol Kasimer,
Chief Executive Officer,
YMCA Canada
25 Feb. 2001
Dear Mr. Kasimer:
We are stunned by your statement {Globe & Mail, Feb. 23} accusing the
international YMCA delegation’s report on their visit to the occupied
Palestinian territories as biased. Every statement in that report has
been verified and corroborated by virtually every human rights
organisation, including Amnesty International, UN Human Rights
Commission, Israeli B’Tselem Human Rights group, the Israeli League for
Civil and Human Rights, International Commission of Jurists and many
others. For over 33 years, Israel has been in violation of virtually
every article of the Fourth Geneva Convention, including collective
punishments, detention without charge, torture, deportation, denial of
access to religious sites, demolition of thousands of homes, including
total villages, like Emmaus, Yalu and Beit Nuba [my own hometown] and
expropriation of property and creation of illegal Jewish settlements,
and many other acts of violation of human rights. Israeli brutal and
oppressive illegal occupation of the West Bank, including East
Jerusalem, and Gaza has been allowed to continue for over 33 years, in
defiance of international law and repeated Security Council resolutions,
because of the unquestioning support of the US and its allies and the
deafening silence of some bodies like YMCA Canada, that claim to care
for human rights, freedom of speech and religion and justice.
In your criticism of the report, you mention that it “did not consider
the part Palestinian violence has played in the conflict”. As I stated,
the massive violation of the human rights of Palestinians has gone on
for over 33 years and did not start in response to the current
Intifadah, if that is what you have in mind. Deplorable as the killing
of innocent civilians is, be they Jewish, Christians or Muslims, it is
hypocritical to compare the violence of predominently stone-throwing
children with the artillery, rockets and Apache gunships of Israel’s
army resulting in hundreds killed and thousands of Palestinians maimed
and injured, mostly children, in this recent Intifadah. Furthermore, you
forget that it is a legitimate right for any people under foreign
occupation, even Palestinians, to resist foreign occupation. You may
recall we all stood in support of the French and other Europeans
resisting Nazi foreign occupation. You question the lack of talking to
the Israelis, by the delegation. Did it occur to you that the catalogue
of human rights violations reported is manifest and requires no
explanation? Furthermore, Israel has a longstanding record of refusing
cooperation with other human rights bodies, including UN Human Rights
Commission, examining this concern.
Finally, the Palestinian people are calling on all those who care for
human rights and justice to speak out on this massive suffering and
oppression that the Palestinian people are subjected to, and demand
implementation of international law and termination of this illegal
occupation. We believe it behooves you, if you have any doubt, to go and
visit the occupied territories and see for your self the magnitude of
this suffering.
Yours sincerely
Ismail Zayid, MD.
President, Canada Palestine Association.
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:43 EST 2001
Article: 258643 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: ISRAEL =?iso-8859-1?Q?DOESN=92T?= REPRESENT ALL JEWS By Lillian S.
Robinson
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ISRAEL DOESN’T REPRESENT ALL JEWS
By Lillian S. Robinson* (Freelance)
In Bernard Landry, Quebec will soon have a premier who stoutly affirms
that to be anti-Israel is to be anti-Semitic. As a Jew deeply troubled
by Israel’s war against the Palestinian people, I wonder if there’s one
kind of nationalism Landry gets wrong, for it is precisely because I
belong to the Jewish people that I feel such anguish at the crimes being
committed in my name.
The supporters of Israel have so long insisted that the Israeli state is
the sole representative of Jewish interests, both in the Middle East and
the rest of the world, that many gentiles are convinced, along with
Landry, that to call Israeli policy into question is to attack all Jews.
Weekly Vigil
In fact, growing numbers of North American Jews are beginning to think
critically about the Israeli state and, here in Montreal, we have
initiated a weekly noon-time vigil on Fridays at the Israeli consulate.
In 1982-83, at the time of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the
massacres at the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps, some Jews in the
United States and Canada took tentative action – petitions,
demonstrations, full-page newspaper ads – declaring, in the words of one
American ad, “Menachem Begin does not speak for us.” That we have had
little influence, so far, on our countries’ policies is woefully clear,
as North American military and political aid continues to be Israel’s
principal mainstay.
Two recent incidents illustrate the pervasiveness of the stereotype that
all Jews march in lockstep with the Israeli military. After the Chretien
government bravely dissociated itself from the United States and Israel
in one Security Council vote, it then, with an election in the offing,
offered an ambiguous statement to “the Jewish community” that some took
as an apology for that vote. The second case involves Yves Michaud.
Although Michaud was denounced for maintaining that “the Jews” recognize
only their own suffering, not anyone else’s, and that Jews, along with
the other “ethnics,” constitute an anti-sovereignist bloc, no one took
him to task for his most anti-Semitic statement. This was made when he
told a Jewish senator, Leo Kolber, that it took “you Jews” 2,000 years
to have a country of “your own” while Quebecers are still waiting.
Apparently, asserting that a Canadian Jewish legislator owes his
allegiance to a foreign power does not count as anti-Semitism, whereas
stereotypes about a “Jewish” position on Quebec sovereignty do. The
silence suggests that everyone agrees that we Jews belong to Israel, and
that Israel belongs to “us.”
Same Lesson
It is ironic that North American Jews, most of whom did not directly
suffer the atrocities of the Holocaust, have tended to derive the same
lesson as the Israeli state from the wholesale destruction of European
Jewry. “The nations abandoned us then,” they argue, so “the Jewish
people’s only protection against anti-Semitism is to rely on our own
military force.” In 1991, during the Gulf War, an American rabbi even
used this argument, relying on the moral authority of the Shoah to call
for bombing the Iraqis into the sand.
But there is another lesson to be learned from the Holocaust, one far
more attuned to the ethical register of Jewish life and thought, but
much harder to enact in reality. This lesson teaches us that the only
way to combat anti-Semitism, the particular form of racism directed
against Jews, is to combat all racism. It is precisely because “the
nations” abandoned the Jews of Europe to their annihilation that Jews
worldwide have to work so that no such vicious, dehumanizing conditions
be allowed to flourish – against any group.
If, as I believe, it is a Jewish mission to combat all forms of racism,
it is clearly our responsibility to make sure that we are not ourselves
guilty of it. That means not occupying the Palestinian homeland (Gaza
and the West Bank), not responding to children’s rock-throwing with
automatic weapons, not torturing prisoners, not harassing those crossing
boundaries between the occupied territories and Israel itself on their
daily trips to work, not demolishing homes on bureaucratic pretexts.
It’s a negative list, to be sure, but it would be a beautiful beginning.
* Lillian S. Robinson is principal of the Simone de Beauvoir Institute
at Concordia University and a member of Montreal’s Jewish Alliance
Against the Occupation. (Montreal Gazette,
http://www.montrealgazette.com/editorial/pages/010226/5123611.html , 26
February 2001)
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:44 EST 2001
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Subject: Ha’aretz: Barak was biggest settlement builder since ’92
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Ha’aretz: Barak was biggest settlement builder since ’92
By Nadav Shragai Ha’aretz Correspondent Ha’aretz 27 February 2001
The government began construction of 1,943 housing units in the
territories
last year – the largest number in any year since 1992, according to data
released yesterday by MK Mussi Raz (Meretz).
The figures are based on official data from the Housing Ministry.
Nor has the building stopped since the outbreak of the Al Aqsa Intifada:
In
the last quarter of 2000, work was begun on 954 housing units, up from
368
in the final quarter of 1999, Raz said.
And since such public construction accounts for only about 25 percent of
all
building in Israel, the actual number of units built in the territories
last
year was probably around four times higher.
The figures also showed that only 632 units have so far been sold in the
new
Har Homa neighborhood of East Jerusalem, out of some 2,000 that were put
up
for sale.
Additionally, the Housing Ministry only recently issued a tender for
development work in the Tel Zion neighborhood of Kochav Ya’akov, south
of
Ramallah. The plan is to build 696 apartments there for Haredi families
–
which would double the settlement’s current population of about 600
families.
——————————————–
~~ Reconciliation Conference LIST ~~
since 1994 Abraham Weizfeld organizer
[email protected]
—————————————————
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:44 EST 2001
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Subject: Managing the News, Israeli style
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http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/article.asp?mador=14&datee=2/26/01&id=
111295
Ha’aretz
Monday, February 26, 2001
Claiming discrimination, reporter disrupts
Powell news conference
Anglo File Staff
A news conference yesterday with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell
and Prime Minister-elect Ariel Sharon was disrupted when a foreign
correspondent angrily charged the proceedings were “undemocratic.”
The news conference, at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, was
broadcast live on CNN, BBC World, and Israeli TV and radio.
Ben Lynfield, resident Middle East correspondent for The Scotsman,
ignored requests of the news conference moderator, Foreign Ministry
Spokeswoman Yaffa Ben Ari, to hold his question, and kept on
complaining he was not allowed to ask his question. Powell, however,
said he would only respond to questions handled through the moderator.
Lynfield later told Ha’aretz he was angry because the list of reporters
to
ask questions was picked before the news conference, contrary to
standard procedure of taking questions in random order.
Howard Goller, chairman of the Foreign Press Association in Israel,
said, “If time after time, the same people get to ask questions, because
they have made arrangements beforehand, then it’s time to look at how
things should be done.”
A senior correspondent said the foreign press corps in Israel has “been
frustrated that, during the Barak years, live-broadcast Israeli TV and
radio have been given priority” above the foreign press.
In defense of her actions, Ben-Ari said it was “not a regular press
conference, there was limited time,” and Lynfield’s protests were
“uncalled for” and “premeditated.
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:44 EST 2001
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Subject: Ali Abunimah : Letter to Powell: Alarming Developments
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Subject: Letter to Powell: Alarming Developments
February 28, 2001
To: [email protected]
Dear Secretary Powell,
I am writing to express my alarm and concern at several developments in
the occupied territories today. According to several media reports,
Israeli shelling struck a Kindergarten in the occupied Gaza Strip today
injuring a five year old girl. According to the reports, “Israeli shells
landed at the entrance of a kindergarten in the village of Abasan east
of
Khan Yunis, near the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel. Another
shell struck a mosque. The five-year-old was injured by shell splinters
and taken to a hospital in Khan Yunis.” (AFP, February 28, 2001) The
Al-jazira satellite network also reports that Israeli occupation forces
today demolished a multi-family Palestinian home near the city of
Ramallah.
It is particularly distressing that Israel took these barbaric actions
only a day after the State Department issued its latest report
documenting
similar abuses.
I am further alarmed by reports in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz today
which state that the Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank are
considering “ways of legalising security patrols led by Jewish
settlers.” This would be a very dangerous and provocative development. I
am writing to urge the United States to use all its influence to ensure
that Israel does not further empower these terror groups.
As the State Department reported in its annual human rights country
practices report, the settlers in the occupied territories are
responsible
for severe violence against Palestinians. According to your departments
own report, in 2000
“There were credible reports that settlers killed at least 14 and
injured
a number of Palestinians during the ‘Al-Aqsa Intifada,’ usually by
stoning
vehicles, which caused fatal accidents, shooting them, or hitting them
with moving vehicles. For example, on October 1, unidentified Israeli
settlers opened fire on a car holding Palestinians, killing an 18-month
old baby.”
The State Department report also confirms that “the Israeli government
did
not prosecute the settlers for their acts of violence. In general,
settlers rarely serve prison sentences if convicted of a crime against
Palestinians.” (Occupied Territories, Country Reports on Human Rights
Practices–2000, U.S. Department of State, February 2001)
Furthermore, the settlers leaders have frequently made threats of
violence
and terror against Palestinians. In November, Lenny Goldberg, a settler
leader was quoted in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz saying:
“The Arabs must be made to feel afraid, since the IDF isn’t doing
it…They aren’t afraid of the IDF, so we have to make them fear us.
When
the settlers put up a roadblock, the Arabs stay two kilometers away.
When
the IDF does it, they aren’t afraid.”
I hope that given these facts you can understand the extreme alarm that
this matter causes. I hope you will immediately reiterate to Israel
that:
(1) The presence of settlers in the occupied territories is a violation
of
Article 49 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions Relative to the Protection of
Civilian Persons in Time of War.
(2) Israel must cease and desist from using weapons supplied or paid for
by the United States to commit human rights abuses in the occupied
territories.
Secretary Powell, there is much the United States can do to restrain
Israel’s continuing aggression against the Palestinians under
occupation. I hope you will find the courage to act urgently.
Sincerely,
Ali Abunimah
Chicago, Illinois
[email protected]
http://www.abunimah.org
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:45 EST 2001
Article: 258665 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Web hate on trial as Zundel case nears end
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“We’re trying to protect the Internet and protect maximum freedom of
speech in Canada against the goose-steppers who want to take us back
to the Inquisition…”
-CAFE Director Paul Fromm on attempts by Organized Jewry to censor the
Net,
National Post, February 27, 2001
======================================
http://www.nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/stories/20010227/486754.html
National Post <[email protected]> | February 27, 2001
Web hate on trial as Zundel case nears end
Desmond Brown
TORONTO – A four-year human rights case against Holocaust denier Ernst
Zundel is coming to an end and the decision could set a legal precedent
regarding hate groups on the Internet.
“This is the first Canadian case dealing with the jurisdiction of the
human
rights law to deal with hate messages on the Internet,” Marvin Kurz,
lawyer
for B’nai B’rith Canada. “This is a first step in dealing with that
medium.
It’s not the last step.”
The Web site, operated by Mr. Zundel, should be ordered shut down
because
it violates Section 13 of the Human Rights Act, which prohibits
discriminatory practices to be transmitted over the telephone that may
expose persons to hatred or contempt, Mark Freiman, counsel for the
Canadian Human Rights Commission, said in closing arguments.
A decision is expected this spring over charges that were initiated in
1997
as a result of two complaints.
“Access to the Internet is overwhelmingly by means of the telephone
network,” said Mr. Freiman.
Mr. Zundel’s Web site includes articles such as: Hitler’s Policy Was
Emigration, Not Extermination; There Is No Proof the Holocaust Occurred;
and The Big Lie.
Mr. Freiman called the contents of the Web site “propaganda against an
entire people using a carefully thought out rhetorical structure.
“Its entire purpose is to create the picture and emotions of hatred and
contempt.”
Neither Mr. Zundel nor his lawyers attended the hearing.
However, lawyer Barbara Kulaszka sent a letter to the Human Rights
Tribunal
saying Mr. Zundel now lives in the United States with his wife, Ingrid
Rimland.
“Unfortunately, the Canadian ‘brain drain’ continues unabated,” she
wrote.
The case against Mr. Zundel is also moot because the Web site is
operated
>from the United States and there can be no violation of Section 13 of
the
Canadian Human Rights Act, wrote Ms. Kulaszka.
Mr. Freiman said the tribunal does have jurisdiction because people are
able to access the Web site in Canada.
During a break in the proceedings, a shouting match broke out in the
hallway between members of the Jewish community and supporters of Mr.
Zundel after Paul Fromm, of the Canadian Association for Free
Expression,
said a “privileged minority” was behind the efforts to shut down the Web
site.
“We’re trying to protect the Internet and protect maximum freedom of
speech
in Canada against the goose-steppers who want to take us back to the
Inquisition,” said Mr. Fromm, who in 1997 was fired from his job as a
high
school teacher in Peel Region for his association with white supremacist
and anti-Semitic organizations.
Mr. Zundel was convicted in Toronto in 1985 of distributing hate
literature
in a book that claimed the mass extermination of Jews in Germany during
the
Second World War never occurred. His conviction was overturned on
constitutional grounds.
He was born in Germany and entered Canada as a permanent resident in
1958.
He applied to become a Canadian citizen in 1993, but was turned down.
A report by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration labelled Mr.
Zundel
a threat to national security.
That report started a review by the Security Intelligence Review
Committee,
which ultimately contributed to the rejection of Mr. Zundel’s
citizenship
bid.
He appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada, but was turned down in
December.
Final arguments in the human rights hearing are expected to be completed
today. <end>
=========================================
I doesn’t matter whether Zundel spouts hate or what. What matters is
freedom of speech. Only Zionists are engaged in trying to suppress
free speech. At the same time, Jewish owned media are giving the
American people a false notion of what is going on in Israel to the
benefit of the Zionists.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:45 EST 2001
Article: 258667 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In Germany
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Finkelstein’s Holocaust Book Sells 50,000 Copies In 2 Weeks In Germany
By Tony Paterson, in Berlin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk
London Daily telegraph | February 18, 2001
A book accusing American Jews of using the Nazi Holocaust to blackmail
Europe into making huge “exploitative” compensation payments has sold
more
than 50,000 copies in Germany following its publication here two weeks
ago.
The Holocaust Industry by Norman Finkelstein, a Jew whose parents were
Holocaust survivors, prompted a furious debate following its publication
in
English last summer when critics in America and Britain dismissed it as
“disgusting”. A German version of the book has caused far greater
outrage.
Finkelstein believes that American Jews with the backing of Israel have
set
up a “Holocaust industry” to exploit Germany financially. Germany’s
Jewish
leaders have called for the book to be banned while the German far-Right
and
neo-Nazi publications have welcomed the work as “proof” of a world-wide
Jewish conspiracy against Germany.
Finkelstein’s promotional tour of Germany has attracted large audiences.
A
launch of his book at Berlin’s Urania theatre was attended by more than
1,000 people. The weekly magazine Der Spiegel said: “Germany is in the
grip
of Holocaust madness. Finkelstein is being taken seriously. What he says
corresponds with what many who do not know the facts think.”
In an interview, Finkelstein declared that “the Holocaust is a political
weapon. Germans have legitimate reasons to defend themselves against
this
abuse”. Finkelstein, who describes himself as a Jewish atheist and
Left-wing
anti-Zionist who supports the Palestinian cause, has been ostracised by
the
American Jewish community for his views.
Publication of his book coincided with an opinion poll that showed that
65
per cent of Germans totally or partially agreed with Finkelstein’s
assertion
that “Jewish organisations make exaggerated compensation demands on
Germany
to enrich themselves”. <end>
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:45 EST 2001
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Subject: WJC trying to stifle Holocaust meeting in Lebanon
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NEW YORK, Feb 22 (Reuters) – The World Jewish Congress called on
Thursday for Lebanon to block what the group said was an anti-Semitic
Holocaust meeting funded by Iran that will be held in Beirut next month.
Lord Greville Janner, the WJC vice president, wrote to Swedish Prime
Minister Goran Persson on Feb. 21, asking him to “use your good offices
to call on the Lebanese government not to permit this polemic,
anti-Semitic and hate-inspired conference to be held in their capital.”
Elan Steinberg, the WJC executive director who gave Janner’s letter
to Reuters, said the Jewish advocacy group appealed to Persson because
his country currently holds the European Union’s rotating presidency.
He said Stockholm also hosted a conference last year on Holocaust
education called “Combating Intolerance” that was attended by 40
nations.
Marc Weber, director of the Newport Beach, California-based Institute
for Historical Review, said his group was helping the Swiss organization
Verite et Justice put on the conference, which is called “Revisionism
and Zionism.”
“People in Lebanon should have the same right to attend and host a
conference, the same as other people have in the United States,” Weber
said.
According to Weber, the Verite et Justice director Jurgen Graf was
sentenced by a Swiss court in July 1998 for what Weber called “Holocaust
denial.” Graf now lives in Tehran as the guest of scholars, according to
Weber.
He said said he did not know whether Iran was paying for the Beirut
conference.
Weber said his group did not deny the Holocaust occurred, but he said it
published many works that were skeptical of what he called “the hype,
hyperbole, misreporting and distortion” about the Holocaust.
((Joan Gralla, U.S. Municipal Desk, +1 212 859 1654,
[email protected]))
Thursday, 22 February 2001 20:10:46
ENDS [nN22293329]
————————————————–
Zionists want freedom of speech for themselves, and want to deny it to
others.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:46 EST 2001
Article: 258670 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: The Bully : MacKenzie Paine
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Truth Seeking Missile
Circling the Globe in Defense of Truth, Justice & Freedom
February 28, 2001
FIRE FIVE!
The Bully
MacKenzie Paine
Two years ago my then 9-year-old son came home from the corner store
with
blood flowing down the left side of his face. A 12-year-old wielding a
large, smooth rock had bashed him in the head for no reason. He did not
strike back, as I had taught him not to fight. As I saw his pain and the
horrible blood, however, I wondered at my own advice. As soon as I had
patched him up I stormed to the bully’s home, called him out into the
yard
and told him to keep his hands off of my son and not to ever touch him
again.
Soon afterwards I heard a father advise his sons to never deliver the
first
blow, but if attacked, to defend themselves. I have since shared this
advice with my sons. And now, after reading a deluge of email and
visiting
numerous websites, I have an overwhelming desire to say one thing:
America, it’s time to defend ourselves.
We are being ruthlessly attacked psychologically. Our freedoms are being
denied us, our press is being censored and our most venerable
institutions
are being bullied into submission. We cower before a bully who takes our
lunch money, then makes us beg for forgiveness, for having pointed out
to
him that he is a bully. Worldwide, those who dare to speak out against
the
bully and demand that he cease and desist are persecuted and prosecuted.
This is no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave. We are
a
nation of psychologically maladjusted children who are grateful to give
our
lunch money to the bully and who demand that everyone else should do the
same.
Well, I say to the bully, keep your hands off my child and all other
children!
Members of the International Young Men’s Christian Association (YMCA)
spent
five days in Palestine during November, 2000 and wrote a 3,000 word
report
on the Israelis’ severe abuse of civilians in the occupied territories.
Please read the report in full at:
http://www.ymca.int/programs/Declarations/Palestine_ReportNov2000.htm
The report calls for the 46 million YMCA and YWCA members worldwide to
work
within their communities to educate their friends and neighbors about
the
horrible crimes against humanity being perpetrated against the
Palestinian
people, to speak out on behalf of the Palestinians.
Enter the bully.
“Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the (Simon) Wiesenthal Center,
said the YMCA’s report is ‘a total shift, a step out of character and a
very dangerous one’ for the international organization. . .This is not
an
area they should be involved in. And if they don’t [go back to Israel
and
tell a different side of the story] we will formally call on the
international YMCA community to defund Geneva.” Cooper boasted that the
Wiesenthal Center has contacted YMCAs in over 20 countries urging them
to
demand that the “biased” report be dropped.
The YMCA sought to describe for us the brutality, the misery and
suffering,
the intentional genocide of an entire nation, and the bully has cried
foul.
Today, it is not the bully’s blood streaming down the faces of children,
or
the bully’s life that has been destroyed. It is not the bully’s parents
who
are impotent to save their children or protect them. The YMCA tried to
tell
the world about the bully, and now they’ve been censored. I say again,
keep
your hands off my child and all other children!
MSNBC has come under attack for including in its online photo contest
the
stark image of the 12-year-old Palestinian boy who was gunned down in
Gaza.
The Brooklyn, NY Jewish Press recently stated that MSNBC is providing
“ammunition” in the “escalating Cyber war.” “Jewish voices have not
lagged
in response. A message circulated on the Internet called for people to
select the photo ‘Hunting Down the Shooter,’ which as of last Sunday
morning was in second place behind the photo of the Palestinian boy. .
.Concerned readers also sent a letter of protest to the competition’s
organizers, saying, ‘Including this photo in your contest is not only
dishonest journalism but in very poor taste,’ and calling on them to
rethink their choice.”
A photo of a dead child is “dishonest?” A photo of a murdered child,
killed
because of his nationality and religion, is in “poor taste”?” This is
the
best the bully’s supporters can come up with? I should think that
executing
children is the epitome of poor taste, and that not reporting it is the
basest dishonesty.
In a United Nations press release from November, 2000, we find the
following: “The observer for Palestine asked the United Nations to take
a
decision to dispatch international forces to ‘prevent the extinction’ of
the Palestinian people.” This was a press release that was most likely
published in many papers and reported on many TV news programs around
the
world, but I had to find it on the Internet. I am an American and cannot
be
allowed to have this information. I also found two photographs that seem
to
confirm the UN concerns for the fate of the Palestinians. One photo is
of a
10-year-old little boy who was beaten to death by an Israeli settler.
The
other is a photo of a UN monitor holding a Palestinian baby. The baby’s
head had been blown off.
http://www.flinet.com/~politics/action/ch-beat.htm
This bully goes beyond throwing stones. This bully murders with
vengeance,
and my heart bleeds for the mothers and fathers who are unable to
protect
their children from The Bully.
The International Red Cross has repeatedly spoken out on behalf of the
Palestinians, issuing reports and press releases that never see the
light
of day in the US press. If we can’t trust the YMCA, the United Nations
or
the International Red Cross to tell the truth, who are we left with? The
Bully?
In the February 22, 2001 issue of Canadian Jewish News, writer Paul
Lungen
reports on the eminent danger of anti-Semitism spreading to the Arab
nations. “A gathering of Holocaust deniers in Lebanon is only the tip of
the iceberg in the ongoing collaboration between neo-Nazi activists from
the West and Muslim fundamentalists in the Arab world. . .” This
translates
to “A conference on Zionism and Revisionism, to be attended by an
international team of scholars and historians who refuse to cower before
The Bully, will be hosted in a country whose government values
historical
accuracy and civil rights over religion or politics.” The Revisionists
and
the Lebanese government know who The Bully is and they, too, have said,
“Hands off our children! Let them live in peace.”
And The Bully? So worried is Rabbi Cooper, a full-time flack for The
Bully,
by the threat of this gathering (to the Bully) that “. . .he has written
to
the Lebanese ambassador in Washington, asking that Lebanon block the
conference. . .”
It’s not The Bully, but “Muslim fundamentalists,” we’re told to fear:
gun
toting, rag-head terrorists whose values are so base as to be sub-human,
their children mere animals, best used for target practice or as
punching
bags. The world would be a safer place if the “fundamentalists,” and the
Arabs, and the Muslims would just go away. Or so The Bully has told us
for
more than 50 years. Yet, In an essay titled “Galilee Flowers,” the
supremely talented Israeli-Jewish writer, Israel Shamir, writes:
“Another
email comes into my laptop, this time from Gaza. An American girl,
Alison
Weir from San Francisco evades Israeli bullets, comforts the scared
Palestinian kids, and writes: ‘The problem is when you know the truth,
it
is far too cruel, far too diametrically opposite what we used to think
and
what everyone still thinks to express. The lie is too big, the
repression
too complete, the Palestinians’ lives too horrible to write about
reasonably’. Well, Alison is right. We face a huge lie, an anti-Moslem
blood libel, and it is time to stop it.” www.thestruggle.com
America, it is time to defend our national honor, our international
reputation and our own morality against The Bully. We are told that we
must
close our eyes and cover our ears, close our hearts and ignore our
consciences, to what we are shown and what we are told by the
International YMCA, the International Red Cross, the United Nations,
Amnesty International, scholars, historians, our military servicemen,
Arabs, and Christian clergy.
It’s time to wake up, to stand tall, to speak out and to tell The Bully
this: Cease subverting our freedoms and corrupting our leaders for your
thuggish aims. Stop polluting the minds of our children against the
children of other nations. Stop bashing children’s skulls in with your
rifle butts or shooting their eyes out with rubber bullets. Stop blowing
off the heads of babies or setting them on fire with phosphorous shells.
Stop murdering their parents and bulldozing their homes.
Keep your hands off our child and all other children, and don’t ever
touch
them again!
<To everyone, please pass this along to anyone who can help us in this
defense of truth. For more information, visit any of the sites listed
below.
If you would like to join this list, help us add to it or add your URL,
please let us know. We’re developing an international email network and
welcome all.
If you would like to be removed from this list, please type the word
REMOVE in the subject field and include your current email address in
the
body of the message. If you have more than one address, *please* be sure
to
give us the one at which you received this message. If you have asked to
be
removed before and received this, please ask again and be sure to give
us
the email address where you received this. We apologize for any
inconvenience.>
Sites The Bully hates:
www.al-bushra.org
www.halcyon.com/jim/ussliberty/
www.zundelsite.org
www.codoh.org
www.ihr.org
www.russgranata.com
www.adelaideinstitute.org
www.vho.org
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:46 EST 2001
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Subject: THE ELECTRONIC INTIFADA
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THE ELECTRONIC INTIFADA
http://electronicIntifada.net
—————————————————–
A resource for countering myth, distortion, and spin
>from the Israeli media war machine
—————————————————–
YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO THINK CRITICALLY
Visit THE ELECTRONIC INTIFADA website to understand the how the media,
military, and policy authorities manipulate our thinking about the
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
Tired of biased news coverage but not sure what to do about it?
THE ELECTRONIC INTIFADA at http://electronicIntifada.net will equip you
to
challenge myth, distortion and spin in the media in an informed way that
will result in positive change in media coverage of the Palestinians.
CONTEXT IS ALL
THE ELECTRONIC INTIFADA project grew out of a series of Internet
projects
both in the occupied Palestinian territories and outside. THE ELECTRONIC
INTIFADA aims to focus on just one aspect of the struggle, the war in
the
media for a representation of the Palestinian point of view. Our job is
to
ensure the media gives the Palestinian people the permission to narrate.
The current Palestinian uprising (“Intifada”) represents the second
collective attempt of the Palestinian people to shake off an oppressive
34-year-old military occupation.
The Israeli military occupation has been aided and abetted by misleading
and complicit media coverage in the West, particularly in the USA, a
country which provides massive and uncritical support to the Israeli
occupation of Palestinian lands, in contravention of international law,
hundreds of UN resolutions, and the Fourth Geneva Convention.
THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
To learn more about the political, military, and media strategies that
support the Israeli occupation, and how they are mutually reinforcing,
visit http://electronicIntifada.net. Understanding the real story behind
the media portrayals of developments in Israel/Palestine, you’ll never
see
or read another news report in the same way.
You can help. Join our mailing list to receive action items and notice
of
updates to the site by sending a blank e-mail message to
[email protected]
—————————————————–
http://electronicIntifada.net
Email: [email protected]
————————–
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:46 EST 2001
Article: 258674 of soc.culture.canada
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Barbara Amiel is the wife of Conrad Black
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Subject: Barbara Amiel & Daily Telegraph should be exposed
I have been told that Amiel is the wife of the Daily
Telegraph publisher (or was it the editor – not sure).
Well……….. unless there is another Barbara Amiel aka Barbara
Amiel
Black <S>
……………………….. she is married to CONRAD BLACK!!!!!!!!
quote;
Former editor of the Toronto Sun, columnist for McLeans magazine and the
London Telegraph, as well as an author of several books of non-fiction,
Ms.
Amiel Black’s malignant presence seems to be growing. She is now
International Affairs Correspondent for the Southam Presses, as well as
vice
president of Hollinger Inc. a world wide media conglomerate owned by her
husband, Mr. C. [1]
[also]
Barbara Amiel . Born 1940. A writer, journalist, and editor, Barbara
was
editor for the Toronto Sun. She has won the Edgar Allan Poe Award for
best
face crime book and was the “Woman of Distinction” in 1989. She is
married
to Conrad Black, a noted newspaper entrepreneur.
“”””””””a noted newspaper entrepreneur. “””””””””””””””””””
Some
understatement !!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is the big man at Hollingers
Both the JP and the DT are owned by Hollingers.
http://www.hollinger.com/
Her fiancial interest in Hollingers ;
ttp://biz.yahoo.com/t/50/600.html
For an insight into her opinions see
http://www.conservativeforum.org/authquot.asp?ID=325 apage of quotes
from
her.
[1] http://www.studioxx.org/FemmesBranchees/BYEBYE2.html
.
I think this answers the question!!!!!!!!!!!
Best wishes ,
Grayham
Hollinger Inc./ Southam Inc. – Due to recent acquisitions, Hollinger
Inc.
now includes Southam Newspapers, Sterling Newspapers, Unimedia, Armadale
Company and the Burgoyne Group. With 60 daily newpapers,
Hollinger/Southam
represent the largest publishing company in Canada.
==============================================
And why should anyone care? Writing as Barbara Amiel, she has penned
articles in their paper and MacLean’s magazine. The articles are rote
propaganda of the Zionist tripe sort.
Remember, you can’t tell the players without a program.
RLA
From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:47 EST 2001
Article: 258677 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Racist Israeli Pigs Terrorize marketers and destroy E. Jerusalem market
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Bastards!
RLA
Police Raid Damascus Gate Market
East Jerusalem
28 February 2001
It is 1:30 in the morning here, i am writing from a hostel across the
street from Bab al-Amoud, or Damascus Gate. When i disembarked from a
van tonight in front of the market that is situated outside the Gate, i
found myself witness to a very shocking scene. It was clear something
was wrong even before the van pulled over, because there were many
people sitting on the grass where part of the market had stood earlier
today, as if they were having a picnic. On the curb was a large – and i
mean container-size – truck with a bulldozer type scoop that was
crushing and picking up trash from an enormous pile on the lawn.
Clearly everyone was watching it, but what made it obvious this was not
just a better alternative to tv were the large numbers of police and
soldiers present, some of whom were even involved in the debris removal.
i was fortunate to have digital audio and camera equipment with me, so
if i can get the sound downloaded you’ll be able to get a fairly
sensurround report of this on indymedia tomorrow. As has been my
experience throughout the past month here, people in the market were
extremely willing to talk about what was happening and why it was
happening. Although a tv camera finally showed up around midnight, i
was actually the only person there documenting the raid. It was for me
one of these moments when i could think of no other way to describe the
police except as pigs. This was the third time i’ve had the military
get angry about my taking pictures, though tonight i was actually chased
by a stick-wielding strongman because i took a flash photo of the police
commander of the Old City, who was chirping away merrily among a group
of soldiers and cops. There was no official Palestinian presence to
challenge the raid, no record-keeping of damages incurred by the
Palestinians – yet another demonstration of the lawlessness here by
which every form of harassment is justified as a “security measure” and
the people who are being victimized have no recognized means to
challenge what is being done to them.
To summarize what has occurred:
Around 9:30 p.m. the military and police arrived with three large trucks
and began tearing apart the market. They tossed out and destroyed
everything: food, tables, stall coverings, baskets, chairs, and
merchandise. Most of the people present were men, along with a few
older women whom i was told sell vegetables, trying to salvage their
things. There were police there not in uniform who were doing most of
the strip-down work. Walkie-talkie cops were everywhere. Old men sat
on the grass drinking tea and watching their livelihoods be transformed
into unrecognizable garbage. As one young man told me, to try and stop
them meant being arrested and possibly stay in jail for weeks or
months. The Eid al-Adha begins on Monday, so the market was very busy
today, it is a good time for business and the Israelis obviously didn’t
time the raid ignorant of this fact. One person i interviewed said
this happens every few months, without any warning; another expanded on
this, adding that they rotate the Old City forces every six months, and
having recently done this, it is important to reestablish a relationship
with the marketers that reminds them who is in control of their lives.
Everyone i spoke with, in both languages, assured me this only happens
because they are Arabs, offering detailed comparisons to how the market
in West Jerusalem is maintained and respected, which is Jewish. Whether
one agrees with this assessment or not, this is how the people living
under occupation feel, and it is therefore extremely important to
repeat. The perception of collective, racist-based punishment has
everything to do with the spontaneity of the current intifada, and
likewise with why Palestinians are determined to not run away with their
tails between their legs. Many of us expected Sharon’s victory to
cause an escalation in the violence here, and the Israelis have gotten
great media mileage from a bus driver who killed some soldiers. What is
lacking continuously in the mainstream reporting and Israeli analyses is
the extent to which the Israelis themselves are provoking violence and
increasing anger towards them. The economic problems in East Jerusalem
are extensive and filter through the society in subtle as well as not so
subtle ways. Thousands of people outside the city depend on its
commercial activities for their survival here. There are no Jews
working in the Damascus Market i saw beaten to the ground this evening.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure this one out.
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From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:33 EST 2001
Article: 258059 of soc.culture.canada
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From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
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Subject: Bill Friend takes Barbra Amiel apart, but fails to put her back together
again; bad Bill, bad
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From [email protected] Fri Mar 9 16:09:41 EST 2001
Article: 258465 of soc.culture.canada
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Subject: Re: Bat Shalom – Protesting the closure today
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