Of course no one knows who tihs poster is, or even if it is one person
or several.
RLA
Deborah wrote:
> Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> > You, of course, are lying.
> > RLA
>
> Lying is what Roger Alexander does with every post.
>
> He is too much of a coward to deal in FACTS.
>
> Deborah
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:31 EST 2001
Article: 528808 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa,alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust Religion and Holocaust Industry in the service of Israel :
Shraga Elam*
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 639
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:19:32 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.158
X-Trace: news2.atl 982019854 208.61.185.158 (Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:17:34 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:17:34 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:172623 soc.culture.israel:324768 soc.culture.jewish:528808
soc.culture.usa:597142 alt.revisionism:864903
Enclosed is an article which will be published in the next issue of the
Israeli-Palestinian magazine “Between The Lines”.
This article is relevant also in the context of the present discussion
on Norman Finkelstein’s book “The Holocaust Industry”.
Shraga Elam
Holocaust Religion and Holocaust Industry in the service of Israel
Shraga Elam*
There can be no argument that Judeocide (1) during World War II played
and continues to play a major role in the Arab/Israeli conflict
On the one hand, it is a commonly held Arab position that Judeocide is
merely one of many bogus Zionist postures to manipulate world public
opinion.
On the other hand, most Zionists believe that this catastrophe (in
Hebrew, ‘shoa’) demonstrates beyond doubt the necessity of a Jewish
state; and had there been one during WWII, this genocide would not have
taken place. Moreover, it is claimed that only a militarily strong
Israel which prevents such a catastrophe from recurring.
Each of the above positions is the result of the same distorted mode of
processing the past. This mode can be called religious, even though the
usual definition of religion includes a god concept — one which is
absent in this discussion. In all other ways, the necessary religious
characteristics are in place:
dogmas
commandments
rituals
shrines
prophets and priests
and, of course, economic/financial structures
One can, therefore, speak of a “Holocaust Religion” and its “Satanic”
arch enemy, “Holocaust Denial”. A third way to deal with the Judeocide,
which should be defined as secular and scientific, is often identified
with the “Holocaust Denial.”
The use of the term “Holocaust”, which means “A burnt- sacrifice or
offering, the whole of which was consumed by fire”(2), reflects the
religious character of the dominant historiography of Judeocide(3).
Using the designation “Holocaust” for the extermination of the Jews
implies accordingly the absurdity that the Nazis scarified the Jews in a
kind of a religious ritual.
The birth of the Holocaust Religion is considered to have been triggered
by the trial in Jerusalem of the Nazi criminal Adolf Eichmann in 1961.
This show-trial was a spectacle meant to get the Jewish Israeli public
mainly the then youngest generation acquainted with the Judeocide.
The trial did not succeed in achieving this aim not because this
middle-ranking SS-officer, Eichman, was not adequate to represent the
whole extermination machinery. Nor was the failure due to the
impossibility of reducing the nazi monstrous system to a single
individual.
The fundamental reason for the failure must be attributed to the central
Zionist tenet: the “Negation of the Diaspora” a recurrent theme which
made it very difficult for the young Jewish-Israelis to identify
themselves with European Jewry.
Several generations of Israeli Jews were brought up to loathe Jewish
existence abroad. in fact, Jewish way of life in Europe, for example,
was viewed as sick and to be overcome through Zionism. Young
Jewish-Israelis were brain-washed, through the late 70’s, to internalize
typical Christian European prejudices against Jews and thus did not want
to identify themselves with their own grandparents or even their
parents, who had not resisted oppression in Europe.
It is precisely owing to their role as victimizers that, even now, it is
easier for Israeli soldiers to identify with the Nazis than with their
own ancestors — the victims. Example: in 1982 after the bombing of
Beirut and putting the city under siege, Israeli soldiers disgusted at
what they had just done, told an excited and adoring German journalist
who wanted to know how they were feeling: “we have just created a Warsaw
ghetto.”
Even though Eichmann’s trial did not achieve the desired effect inside
Israel, its impact abroad was enormous. Elie Wiesel, a former
concentration camp inmate, who came to Jerusalem to report on the
process, subsequently initiated a religious modality for handling the
Judeocide. This religion was to become very dominant in the ensuing
years. It came to be accepted by not only by most Jews but also many
non-Jews, especially in the industrialized countries. It was to
become one of the most important tools of the Israeli propaganda
machinery.
The relevancy of the Holocaust Religion to the Middle East conflict
cannot be overlooked. Its real breakthrough according to the Jewish
theologian Marc Ellis, who defines it rather as a theology, came through
the Israeli victory in 1967(4).
“Holocaust theology yields three themes that exist in dialectical
tension: suffering and empowerment, innocence and redemption,
specialness and normalization(5)”
After this war there was according to this analysis a kind of a
religious messianic salvation. The Judeocide and the big ‘threat’ to
Israel in 1967 are the suffering. The building of the State of Israel
and especially the victory of 1967 are the redemption.
Of course Zionism lost its innocence long before 1967. Already in the
1930’s, David Ben Gurion, the most important Zionist leader, realized
the huge potential in Judeocide as he brought these religious elements
together into a simple direct political motto for the
instrumentalization of the Jewish sufferings in Europe. He declared:
“Catastrophe is Power.” Which means the Zionist movement should find
ways to profit politically and financially from the agony. Yet the
catastrophe became a real source of political power only after Israel
became a military success in 1967. Which means, a catastrophe as such is
not necessarily a source of power. One must be powerful in order to be
able to use and abuse a disaster.
In their book “Dangerous Liasion”(6) , Andrew and Leslie Cockburn
describe how only after 1967 did Israel become attractive to the US
military establishment. Though Israel had, before that time, a burning
desire to work for Washington, the US was not enthusiastic until Israel
demonstrated its strength on the battlefield..
The journalist J.J. Goldberg(7) argues that the Jewish lobby became
strong only after 1967. AIPAC the most known lobby became influential
through the Israeli importance for the US foreign policy and not the
other way around. This claim sounds very plausible when one considers
that the American Jewish organizations were not able to convince the
Roosevelt administration to be more helpful towards European Jewry
during the Nazi era(8). Although, for example, the New York Times was
in Jewish ownership it did not darem just like the mainstream US Jewish
organizations, to oppose the anti-Jewish policy of the State
Department. The lobby to establish a Zionist state in Palestine was
anyway more effective than the one to save the Jews. This was the line
dictated by Ben Gurion and executed by his delegate Abba Hillel Silver.
The Zionist influence at that period was less strong than perceived
through the Arab lens. Still the leadership of the Jewish agency (JA),
i.e., the government-in-formation, headed by the Zionist Labor movement,
started very early to cash in on the Nazi persecutions of the Jews. This
“Holocaust Industry”(9) had been founded even before the Judeocide was
really launched.
In the mid 30’s the JA reached a deal with the Nazis, the so called
Ha’avara agreement, which helped the Zionist movement not only to
attract to Palestine very wealthy investors, but to get direct control
of some of their money. According to the this arrangement, rich Jews
could get some of their properties out of Germany if they immigrated to
Palestine and the Jewish Agency received a nice commission from these
deals. This arrangement was, among others, the result of strong Nazi
support for the Zionist project, since corresponding with the Zionist
aims the main German objective at that time was to expel the Jews from
Europe. This policy coincided with the Zionist aims(10).
The collaboration with the Nazis brought the Zionists the much needed
capital for the colonization of Palestine ($40 million, which were “60%
of capital invested in Palestine between 1933 and the war”(11). This
agreement practically saved the Zionist movement in Palestine from
bankruptcy argues the journalist Lenni Brenner.
The JA came thus to be the largest agent for German goods in the Middle
East and sabotaged Jewish efforts to declare a boycott against the
Nazis.
THIS fruitful cooperation between the Nazis and the Zionists came to an
end in 1938 following Arab insurrections. After which the British tried
to stop Jewish Immigration into Palestine. Besides the German faction,
which sought an anti-British alliance with the Arabs got stronger and
blocked the export to Palestine of goods so needed at home.
Still the pro-Zionist Nazi factions (Eichmann was a part of them) kept
their contacts with the Jewish Agency. According to the coordinator of
the Zionist activities in occupied Europe, Nathan Dror-Schwalb, his
people were working together with Eichmann in 1938 as he expelled the
Austrian Jews(12). Zionist delegates, according to Schwalb, could
operate without disturbance in Germany throughout the war and organize
their cells of the youth movement Hehalutz(13).
According to the Israeli historian S. Beit-Zvi the JA-leadership did not
hesitate to sabotage rescue efforts. This happened after it became
clear, that the British would not allow a Jewish mass immigration to
Palestine. Beit-Zvi argues that the JA-leadership was afraid that a
large number of Jews would be saved and sent to some other destinations
rather than Palestine. This development was considered a political and
economic danger (!) to the Zionist project, as it would absorb resources
needed to establish the state and would weaken the Zionist claim that
Palestine is the only possible refuge for Jews(14).
According to Beit-Zvi, Golda Meir was responsible for sabotaging the
concrete chances of rescue of the refugees which was discussed at
conference of Evian in 1938. Beit-Zvi claims that this was the real
reason why this famous conference actually failed.
In a very famous speech Ben Gurion formulated the JA rescue policy as
follow:
“If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany
by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by transporting
them to Eretz Yisrael, then I would opt for the second alternative. For
we must weigh not only the life of these children, but also the history
of the People of Israel.”(15)
Ben-Gurion’s apologists have tried to explain away this quotation. But
an objective examination of the following activities of the JA, the
protocols of JA-leadership and the factual low priority it gave to
rescue operations, can only confirm the claim that this speech was
emblematic of this attitude and that it basically never changed even
after the scope of the catastrophe became clear(16).
In the case of the Hungarian Jews, the charge of direct collaboration of
the Labor party controlled JA leadership with the Nazis is raised by
both Jewish Antizionists and Ultra-Zionists (Likud and the radical
right). The Zionist representative, Israel Kastner is accused of making
possible the efficient deportation of half a million Jews to Auschwitz
through the cooperation of his committee with Eichmann. The defenders
of Kastner argue that he actually tried to save the Jews through
negotiating with the Nazis. Even if this claim is true, it is beyond
discussion that these negotiations were sabotaged by the JA-leadership,
the mainstream Jewish organizations in the USA and also by the Allies.
Another Israeli historian, Idith Zertal, claims that Ben Gurion was
already before WWII mainly interested in the rescue operations only for
the national purposes. The saving of persecuted Jews was to be used
primarily a means of pressure on the British Empire to abolish its
immigration restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine. But even
for these purposes, there were hardly any meaningful rescue activities
during the war. There were very few Zionist delegates to coordinate such
operations and they had hardly any financial resources to be effective.
According to Zertal the spectacular actions of the illegal immigration
after the war, like the famous trip of the “Exodus”, were mainly part of
a very effective propaganda campaign. The Jewish organization “Joint”
claimed at that time, that the total number of immigrants including the
illegal ones was smaller than British quota. This means that if the
Jewish refugees would have been transported to Palestine legally, under
normal conditions, it would have been cheaper, more comfortable and
safer for them than using the shaky illegal ships and their number would
not necessarily have been lower. But by using this legal way, the JA
would have lost the propaganda effects of the pictures of British
soldiers using excessive amount of force against Jewish survivors(17).
Though the Zionist leadership was not very active in saving Jews (to say
the least), it started already during WWII to prepare a restitution
campaign. The JA felt itself empowered to make claims on Jewish
properties without being bothered by such trivialities like whether or
not the legitimate owners or their heirs were still alive(18).
The Zionist project needed a lot of money and therefore it is not
surprising that the JA did not have too many ethical considerations when
they endeavored to save Nazi war criminals, that is, if the Nazis
could pay enough for it. Thus the SS officer responsible for the robbery
of the Hungarian Jewry, Kurt Becher, and some of his friends were saved
. The aforementioned Israel Kastner was sent in 1948 by the Israeli
finance minister to Germany to save these Nazis from trial. In return,
Becher gave orders to his Swiss trustee to transfer money to the Jewish
Agency(19).
This was also the case of the important Nazi agent, Jaac van Harten,
whose money financed in 1945/46 the illegal Jewish immigration to
Palestine and acquisitions of weapons . Van Harten was crucial for the
flight of Nazis out of Europe, but the agents of the Mossad Le’Aliyah
Beth(20) who protected him, could not care less. He himself found refuge
later in Tel Aviv, where he got the protection of no less than Golda
Meir, the de-facto foreign minister at that time (1947). Till the 60’s
Van Harten kept contacts with his former Nazi boss, Friedrich Schwend,
who was then working in Peru with other famous Nazis like Josef Mengele
and Klaus Barbie. Schwend was considered to be a kind of finance
minister of the planned Fourth Reich (21).
The Zionist movement succeeded after WWII in getting restitution
illegitimately in the name of the Nazi victims. At the last stages of
the war representatives of the Jewish Agency gathered Jewish properties
and were nominated as recipient for such assets at the Paris Reparation
Conference (1945/46). The larger amount of money began to flow in the
50’s as the USA intensified its efforts to reintegrate West Germany in
its Cold War strategy. A German researcher reports about a meeting in
Switzerland between the German CHANCELLOR Konrad Adenauer and the
Israeli President Haim Weizmann. In this meeting Adenauer agreed to pay
compensations if Israel would give it consent for the rearmament of West
Germany(22).
These restitution monies were very crucial for building the Israeli
economy and military. Most probably the victory of 1967 would not have
been possible without this support.
After 1967 the influence of the Holocaust Industry and the Holocaust
Religion increased as a result of the ever growing importance of Israel
in terms of US interests. The Holocaust Religion was able to achieve a
growing control over the public opinion in Western countries. Its
influence in the 90’s reached an unexpected climax.
Steven Spielberg’s film “Schindler’s list” and the ceremonies
commemorating the Jubilee of the end of WWII functioned like a trigger
for this outburst. As an outcome of this memory-explosion the Holocaust
Industry was in position to launch in 1995 a very effective restitution
campaign against the Swiss banks, which now HAS been expanded to include
other countries. It was a mixture of a just claim, presented by the
wrong organizations for the wrong purposes, but fed through a fear of
the mythological ‘Jewish Power’ and its overestimated influence on the
US government. Of course the Jewish organizations got the support of
Clinton’s administration in this campaign, but it is not clear how far
the US would have gone on this issue against the Swiss banks. Thus the
Swiss became ‘victims’ of their own prejudices against the Jews.
>From a rather unimportant organization looking for an issue, with this
Swiss help, the World Jewish Congress and the affiliated organizations
came to be a very influential factor. The undertaking has brought till
now some $9 billion and the story is not yet over.
Israel itself tries not to be involved directly in this campaign, in
order not to get into any diplomatic complications with friendly
countries like Switzerland. Instead the World Jewish Congress (WJC),
the Jewish Claims Conference (JCC) and some other organizations are
leading the activities. Israel just hopes in one way or another to get
its share in any eventual booty. For example, after a certain
compensation for survivors was paid by Switzerland, the Israeli
government tried to cut the social security support to the Israeli
recipients commensurate with what they’d receive from Switzerland. A
step which means, that actually the money from Switzerland would have
gone to state of Israel and not to the victims.
In the meantime there is much more money in the restitution funds, but
its distribution is delayed (Israel belongs to the slowest distributors)
and the survivors have the feeling that the Jewish organizations
‘representing’ them, are just waiting for more of them to die, so that
the funds will be distributed for other purposes.
The survivors and the legitimate owners of robbed properties realized
too late that their interests are being abused by the leading Jewish
organizations (all of them with a strong Zionist influence). These
survivors are too weak and too old to fight effectively against the
mighty jet-setters of organized Jewry.
There was a series of articles in various papers in Israel, Switzerland,
Germany and USA demonstrating how the most important restitution
organization, the Jewish Claims Conference, is robbing the legitimate
heirs, as Joseph Wolff describes. Wolff, a former director of the
Israeli oil firm Paz, after learning about the cruelty of the JCC,
decided to try to help the twice victimized people. The efforts of this
influential and well connected person did not help much and till today
there is not much clarity regarding the activities of the JCC. No
outsider knows how much money it controls, how much is distributed, who
are the recipients etc.
The attacks of the US political scientist Norman Finkelstein against the
JCC in his book “The Holocaust Industry” irritate the organized Jewry
but in the short run do no more than that. This is because Finkelstein
did not invest enough energy in the complicated investigations needed
to prove his claims.
In a web-site “The Survivors vs. the Holocaust Industry”(23), several
old survivors have tried to initiate the struggle against the JCC, but
they are not very optimistic, as they do not have funds to finance the
fight against the mighty organizations.
They protest against the injustices and demand that they should be able
to decide how the money should be allocated.
The protesting survivors claim that the Jewish organizations are very
slow in distributing the monies and that they are just wait till all of
will die. They note that actually each and every month 1,000 survivors
around the world die.
The survivor Gerhard Maschkowski who is among the leaders of this
struggle writes:
“After the war ended in 1945, Holocaust survivors were treated shabbily;
most were forced to live in Displaced Persons Camps in Europe as the
world was forced to deal with stateless character of the Jewish people
until the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 [he seems to forget to
mention explicitly the role of the Jewish Agency in this postponement.
The JA used once again the sufferings of the survivors as a political
instrument – se]. Later, the “reparations and restitution” efforts
established ostensibly for the benefit of Holocaust survivors in the
United States, were inadequate and arbitrarily administered, resulting
in a legacy of frustration and humiliation for American survivors.
Today’s abandonment is occurring in the context of settlements of class
actions and disputes over Swiss bank accounts, looted Nazi gold, Nazi
use of Jewish slave laborers, and European insurers’ theft of Jews’
insurance policies. While the headlines cry with large dollar figures
purporting to represent compensation for Holocaust victims, and the box
quotes are full of lavish praise and gratitude for the settlements “as
we enter a new millennium,” the truth is, the interests of Holocaust
survivors have received the lowest priority in these negotiations. From
every perspective, the deals fall short of rendering meaningful justice
or dignity to those who were victimized. […] the agreement were struck
to provide immunity for vast numbers of European corporations that
profited from the Holocaust, in most cases, without a true accounting
for their World War II actions(24)”
This last point is demonstrated perfectly by the Interhandel affair, the
scandal of the foreign assets of the largest Nazi chemical combine IG
Farben, who among other things produced the gas for the extermination of
the Jews. These assets should have been confiscated already during WWII
and be used for the rehabilitation of war refugees, for example. This
did not happen, because Corporate America was interested in protecting
these funds and the Swiss authorities and some banks were willing to
help. This money estimated to be of a present value of at least $5
billion, was in the 60’s after a long legal fight misappropriated by the
largest Swiss bank, Union Bank of Switzerland, (today United Bank of
Switzerland – UBS) and the US government under Kennedy(25). In 1995 I
discovered in the Swiss federal archives highly classified documents
proving clearly the dubious role of the UBS and the Swiss government in
this affair(26).
The Jewish organizations leading the restitution campaigns show an
ostensive disinterest in this large amount of money stemming from the
most important Nazi combine, whose direct involvement in the crimes in
Auschwitz is well known. Recently an employee of the JCC confirmed my
suspicions and said that the organizations do not want to raise the
issue in order not to hurt the US interests involved.
It is safe to argue that neither the Holocaust Industry nor Israel have
ever really represented the interests of the Judeocide victims, although
they keep trying to create this impression that they do. This lie
serves Israel in many ways. It guarantees today the support of most of
the Jews, who feel that Israel is their redemption in the possible hour
of their need, a kind of a insurance against possible dangers. With the
Holocaust Religion, its institutions and priests it is possible to block
an all too radical critique against Israel and its crimes against the
Palestinians. Thus the Palestinians actually become indirectly victims
of the Nazis. The Holocaust Industry helps to finance the aggressions
against them and the Holocaust Religion assists in creating a negative
public opinion of them. Thus the Palestinians have to pay the price for
German crimes and Western hypocrisy.
The exposure of the Zionist abuse of Judeocide, is therefore an
important element in the efforts to reach a real and just peace in the
Middle East.
Box:
Similar to the formulations of Israeli philosopher Adi Ophir the dogmas
of this Holocaust Religion can usefully be articulated as religious
commandments :
Remember what Amalek has done to thee!
This compulsory directive is meant to cultivate and preserve for ever
and ever the memory of all the wrongdoings of Amalek against the Jews.
Amalek is the biblical collective designation for all the enemies of the
Jews, who, in the 20th century become to be mainly the Nazis and the
Arabs. It is in this sense not only a command to remember but also to
distrust and hate the non-Jews, the gentiles. This attitude is based on
the concept that the hate of the Jews, Judeophobia(27), is inherent in
all other cultures. Any questioning of the real danger for the Jews in
Europe or North America, for example, is considered blasphemy.
Organizations like the Anti Defamation League (ADL) are zealously
pursuing the supposed and the real sinners. Activities like that of ADL
together with the everlasting commemorations of Judeocide are important
elements for building the modern Jewish identity, especially for the
secular Jews. Another consequence of this commandment is that the Jews
are to be considered as the eternal victims. So even if they are the
victimizers they are still to be conceived as victims.
Thou shall never compare The Holocaust with any other Genocide!
The uniqueness of the Judeocide is a modern version of the old
judeocentric concept of “choseness”. Jewish sufferings are special,
cannot and must never be compared with other miseries.
This commandment is very important for the mythologizing of the
Judeocide and for preventing a normal historical analysis, as one of the
common and important scientific method is the comparison.
This commandment is very successful in the Western countries where the
Judeophobia has a very long tradition and is still common. The
contemporary manifestation of the prejudices against Jews is sometimes
very ingenious. It camouflages itself in an allegedly opposite
attitude, “Judeophilia”, a kind of ‘positive’ racism. The
transformation from one to the other is often seamless.
Thou shall never compare the nazi crimes with those of Israel!
Though on the whole, Isreali crimes are not yet comparable to nazi
crimes, there are certain tendencies that must be recognized before
they become full-fledged reality. Parallels therefore should not,
a-priori, be ignored. For example, the potential for technocrats,
officers etc. to commit crimes is not some specific Nazi characteristic
but is endemic to all modern system.
No causal relationships between the Judeocide and the Palestinian
tragedy are allowed
Every attempt to point out such a connection is considered to be a kind
of Holocaust-denial.
Thou shall never doubt the number of 6 million Jewish victims!
There is no real logical explanation for this figure’s being defended so
desperately. The source of this statistic, the SS officer Wilhelm
Hoettl(28), was certainly not the most reliable informant. If the
number of the slaughtered Jews were 500,000 less , would the Nazi crimes
be less dreadful?
Thou shall never doubt the right of Israel to exist as the Jewish
state!
As the Judeophobia will persist for ever, the Jews will need from now to
eternity a secure refuge. Therefore so many Jews who live in a greater
security outside Israel, still believe that this country should function
as a kind of anti-Judeocide insurance, even though the policy is paid
with Palestinian blood. Therefore is every anti-Zionist per this
definition a supporter of a potential Judeocide and is a Judeophobe.
Thou shall not criticize the leading Jewish organizations and the
Israeli government!
This commandment is reasoned by the above arguments. A career oriented
politician, journalist or artist in Western countries will usuall prefer
to remain silent on these issues in publicm as the potential punishment
is viewed as very painful.
This commandment, like some others on this list, applies mainly to
non-Jews, but radical Jewish critics risk being branded as self-haters.
Thou must never criticize Jewish organizations and the Zionist
leadership for abandoning the European Jewry in the Nazi era!
Most of the attempts to raise this issue are blocked by the argument
that it will strengthen the Judephobes, who claim that the Jews alone
bear the guilt for their fate in WWII.
Without trying to minimize the responsibility of the Nazis for their
crimes, one should take into account the behavior of a segment of the
Jewish community, most especially its leadership, inside and outside
occupied Europe. The victims have also a duty and responsibility and the
tragedy is always greater if a leadership betrays its own people. For
all practical purposes, the Zionist leadership in Palestine and in the
USA abandoned European Jewry(29), and in certain cases sabotaged rescue
attempts(30) and in some other cases even collaborated with the
Nazis(31).
Thou shall not doubt the central Role of Hitler in the
industrialization of the extermination of the Jews.
The fact that there is no proof for an Hitler’s order to build Auschwitz
is one of the most emotional historical disputes. Even logical
non-Hitler-centric descriptions are often labeled as Holocaust Denial.
This is one of the methods of preventing a political secular
explanation of the Judeocide. One of the reasons for this commandment is
that any other explanation implies that there was a real possibility of
saving the Jews and therefore the Zionist movement and the Allies are
guilty of abandoning them.
————–
*Shraga Elam is an Israeli investigative journalist based in
Zurich/Switzerland. He specializes in historical researches about the
role of Jewish organizations and Switzerland during the Nazi era.
(1) Judeocide was coined by Prof. Arno Mayer instead of “Holocaust”
because of the religious character of the latter. See Arno J. Mayer, Why
Did the Heavens Not Darken?, Pantheon, New York, 1988.
(2) Webster’s 1828 Dictionary
(3) This is basically Mayer’s argument
(4) Marc H. Ellis, Beyond Innocence & Redemption -Confronting The
Holocaust And Israeli Power Creating a Moral Future for the Jewish
People, Harper & Row, San Francisco, 1990
(5) Ellis p. 2
(6) Andrew and Leslie Cockburn, Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of
the U.S.-Israeli Covert Relationship, Harper Collins l991
(7) J. J. Goldberg, JEWISH POWER – Inside the American Establishment,
Addison-Wesley, Reading, Massachusetts, 1996,
(8) See e.g., David S. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews, America and
the Holocaust, 1941-1945; Pantheon Books, New York 1984
(9) The phrase “Holocaust Industry” was not invented but popularized by
Norman Finkelstein through his book: The Holocaust Industry Reflections
on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering. Verso, New York, 2000
(10) See E.g. Francis R. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine
Question, University of Texas Press, Austin, 1985
(11) Lenni Brenner, Zionism and Rescue, in Jim Allen, Perdition, Ithaca
Press 1987, p. 74
(12) Interview of the author with Schwalb in 1993.
(13) See Nathan Dror-Schwalb’s archives and Ferdinand Kroh, David
kämpft. Vom jüdischen Widerstand gegen Hitler, Reinbek 1988.
(14) S.B. Beit-Zwi: Post-Ugandian Zionism in the Crisis of the
Holocaust. Tel Aviv 1977 (Heb.) 1991 (eng.)
(15) Out of a Ben-Gurion speech in London in 1938, Brenner in Perdition
p. 76
(16) See Tom Segev , but also the Israeli historian Yechiam Weitz who
tries to defend the JA in his book Aware but Helpless: Mapai and the
Holocaust, 1943-1945 Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi Press, Jerusalem 1994 (Heb.),
proves the opposite of his claim.
(17) Idith Zertal From Catastrophe to Power : Holocaust survivors and
the emergence of Israel, Berkeley : University of California Press,
c1998
(18) For a description of the restitution campaign see Nana Sagi,
German Reparations – A History of the Negotiations, St. Martin’s Press,
New York, 1986,
(19) See Shraga Elam, Hitlers Faelscher – wie juedische, amerikanische
und Schweizer Agented der SS beim Falschgeldwaschen halfen (Hitler’s
Forgers – how Jewish, US and Swiss Agents helped the SS to launder
forged money), Ueberreuter, Vienna, 2000.
(20) The organization for illegal immigration
(21) See Elam, Hitlers Faelscher and Ha’aretz of 28.4.2000 and
19.5.2000
(22) Rudolf Jungnickel, Kabale am Rhein -Der Kanzler und sein
Monsignore, Wartburg Verlag, Weimar 1994. p. 451 ff.
(23) http://home.att.net/~gerhardm/compensation.html
(24) http://home.att.net/~gerhardm/abandonment.txt
(25) See e.g. Joseph Borkin, The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben.
The Startling Account of the Unholy Alliance of Adolf Hitler and
Germany’s Great Chemical Combine, The Free Press, New York 1978.
(26) Shraga Elam, “Interhandel” – eine Saga ohne Ende – Wie das
Auslandsvermoegen der “I.G. Farben” ins Eigenkapital der
“Schweizerischen Bankgesellschaft” kam”, in Sebastian Speich (ed.) – Die
Schweiz am Pranger, Ueberreuter/Cash Vienna/Zurich 1997.
(27) The term Judeophobia is to be preferred to “anti-Semitism”. As
anti-Semitism is on itself a racist designation which was created by one
of the inventor the Nazi ideology, Wilhelm Marr in 1879. The Jews might
be many things but for sure no race and in so far that there is
something like a Semitic race, the Arab belong to it as well.
(28) The figures are contained in an affidavit made by Dr. Wilhelm
Hoettl and presented in the Nuremberg Trial (Document 2738-PS, Exhibit
USA-296). Hoettl quoted Eichmann as the source of the information and
saved his own life through this testimony.
(29) See e.g., David S. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews, America and
the Holocaust, 1941-1945; Pantheon Books, New York 1984 and Tom Segev
The Seventh Million – Israel Confronts the Holocaust, Hill & Wang 1993.
(30) See e.g., S.B. Beit-Zvi.
(31) See e.g., Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators. A
reappraisal. Croom Helm, London 1983 and Shraga Elam Hittlers Fälscher,
Ueberreuter Verlag, 2000.
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:31 EST 2001
Article: 529071 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Settlement Of Occupied Territories = WAR CRIME
References: <[email protected]> <020220012100498828%[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <95h[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <3a8944a[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 23
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:29:44 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.158
X-Trace: news3.atl 982092451 208.61.185.158 (Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:27:31 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:27:31 EST
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.usa.republican:1277137 soc.culture.israel:325002 soc.culture.jewish:529071
talk.politics.mideast:172814
Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> [email protected] (David Goldman) writes:
>
> > >I assume you are talking about the occupation regime of the “Palestinian
> > >Authority”, occupying the historic land of the Jewish people, and brutally
> > >murdering Jews just because they are Jewish.
> >
> > So you advocate continuing to provoke the Arabs by turning Gaza and
> > Hebron into the Lodz and Warsaw ghettos, huh?????
>
> Even someone so clueless as you, David, should notice that Gaza is
> completely open — at least as far as Israeli control is concerned —
> on the Egyptian side, and that Hebron is controlled by Arafat’s gang,
> except for the few security arrangements necessary to protect the Jews
> living there.
Those “few security arrangements” in Hebron entail keeping the entire city under
the thumb of the Israeli military. Get real.
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:31 EST 2001
Article: 529073 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!204.192.80.11.MISMATCH!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.idt.net!
feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Black Anti-Semitism – Black Anti-Zionism
References: <[email protected]> <020220012100498828%[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <95h[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <9045B5D65reuvensnet[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<wk4rxyo[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 103
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:51:23 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.158
X-Trace: news2.atl 982093752 208.61.185.158 (Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:49:12 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:49:12 EST
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.usa.republican:1277149 soc.culture.israel:325006 soc.culture.jewish:529073
talk.politics.mideast:172817
>From time to time I post on Hank Roth’s lists. In particular, he has a list
called Zionism,
on which he posts propaganda of the rankest sort. He states as fact that no
Arabs were
expelled from Palestine, that Arabs in Israel have identical civil rights as
Jews and other such
falsehoods. I posted a couple of articles to the contrary, and was met with
hostility,
so I have more or less quit. It is fair to say that Roth is a committed
Zionist, with His love
for Israel overriding his native intelligence where the two conflict.
RLA
TheGolem wrote:
> From: Subject: Re: [ZIONISM] INTIFADA PLANNED…I would HOPE it was!!!
> Zionism Forum -> http://pnews.org/signup.shtml
> /————————————————————————\
> PEOPLE BEFORE PROFITS! **** ONE PERSON ONE VOTE!
> “From Each According To Their Ability, To Each According To Their Needs”
> \————————————————————————-/
>
> >From another list.. My fellow Jews. Whether you consider yourself a
> Zionist or not, or a liberal or socialist, know that, it won’t and doesn’t
> matter because Anti-Semitism, disguised as anti-Zionism is a virulent and
> insideous form of hatred and the world’s hatemongers will never be
> satisfied until the last Jew draws his or her last breath. Believe it. I
> grew up in the South and experienced anti-Semitism in Florida and Ga in
> military school and in the North when I was in the Army. I had friends who
> sold property to blacks in Davie and were murdered by the KKK for doing
> so. I sponsored a black woman to get her real estate license and was
> threatened and had a cross burned in my yeard by the KKK. I had a German
> Shepard cut to the bone with a tobacco knife in Western N.C. because I had
> the audacity to send my Jewish kids to their school and I was told I was
> not welcome in hotels and motels when I was a kid because they were
> “restricted” and no Jews were allowed. There is no escaping it. And, we
> spoke out against Apartheid and were supported by good blacks like Martin
> Luther King, but then came along Black Nationalism and a new greed of
> blacks who needed a scape goat.
>
> The following comments posted by Butler is a typical example of Black hate
> who would like to see Zionist killed. This is a 32 year old Black man in
> New York, who I assure you from his many comments on this list and others,
> blames the Jews, i.e. Zionists no less than Arabs who preach from the
> “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” in their schools in the West Bank and
> Gaza — as is done in many of Israel’s neigboring Arab countries. While
> pathetic for his bankrupt ideology (a fascist type socialism), he a mirror
> image of many other African-Americans who is from a culture which must
> find a scapegoat, someone to blame for their failing to confront the
> system and overcome adversity as we have in many instances done as Jews.
>
> TheGolem
> http://pnews.org/
> —
> SOCIALIST-ZIONISM LISTSERVER Conference at St Johns University ->
> http://pnews.org/signup.shtml
>
> ———- Forwarded message ———-
> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:48:38 -0000
> From: [email protected]
>
> Hello, PNews Golem, this list’s resident ZionistNazi and Jewish Anti
> Blackist:
>
> First of all, “socialist Zionist” is an OXYMORON, because YOU CAN’T
> BE A “SOCIALIST” IF YOU ARE A NATIONALIST, especially A RACIST
> NATIONALIST.
>
> Second of all, real socialists, and real communists, HAVE NO PROBLEM
> WITH THE USE OF VIOLENCE TO ACHIEVE SOCIAL CHANGE.
>
> After all, the CAPITALISTS use violence, and the implied threat of
> violence, to achieve THEIR AIMS, so, it’s only intellegent for us to
> do the same.
>
> Golem, you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about, because I’m quite
> sure that you, like all Zionist Jewish Anti Blackist Racists, are a
> ferverant supporter of ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES VIOLENCE AGAINST ARABS,
> AND NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACKS.
>
> As for the Intefada being planned, or not, I don’t know, and it
> really isn’t relevant.
>
> But, I SUPPORT THE PALESTINIANS 10,000 % AND I HOPE THEY WIN, AND I
> FURTHER HOPE THAT THEY KILL MANY ZIONISTS IN THE PROCESS.
>
> FRATERNALLY,
> GREGORY A. BUTLER, LOCAL 608 CARPENTER,
>
> /—————— Click Here to Help Yourself ——————–\
> No effort/no-brainer way to generate income from your website.
> http://www.websponsors.com/cgi-bin/referral.cgi?username=thegolem
> UNCENSORED NEWSGROUPS * ANONYMITY * PRACTICE SAFE INTERNET
> http://www.usenet-access.com/default.asp?ID=pnewsorg
> Free Stuff and Trial Offers ** 186 different offers
> http://www.websponsors.com/cgi-bin/ad_click.cgi?userid=4748&OFFERID;=117
> \——————————————————————–/
> 332 message board forums at: http://pnews.org/mall/mb.html
> TEN (PNEWS)”progressive news & views” LISTSERVER Forums [Since 82]
> Forum Descriptions – signup/signoff at: ->http://pnews.org/signup.shtml
> TheGolem ** http://pnews.org/
> \————————————————————————/
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:32 EST 2001
Article: 529302 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,alt.culture.arab-league
Subject: Re: #Zionists blah blah blah about “security”
References: <[email protected]> <3410F27[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 29
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:45:13 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.206.205
X-Trace: news2.atl 982190608 208.63.206.205 (Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:43:28 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:43:28 EST
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.palestine:111892 talk.politics.mideast:172954 soc.culture.jewish:529302
alt.culture.arab-league:4910
Given that you Zionists are racist to the core, that you put up the most
Godawful
lying propaganda, and are the most determined group to prevail with your
lies anywhere on the Net, or off for that matter, this remark comes with ill
grace.
RLA
Larry R wrote:
> The most important thing in communication is hearing what is not being said.
> You racists seem to be losing your voices as more and more people in this
> newsgroup begin to show up your ignorance by answering your bullshit with
> truth.
> Tell us, how does it feel to always be on the losing end?
> LARRY R.
>
> “tclock” <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]…
> > “David Goldman” <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]…
> > > Zionist blah, blah, blah: Peace with Security?
> > >
> > Which makes a lovely bookend for “ArabWorld surrogates, Palestinian Arabs,
> > blah, blah, blah: The Right to Return”.
> >
> > t.
> >
> >
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:32 EST 2001
Article: 529725 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp1.njy.teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Gaza Community Mental Health Program work is disrupted : a plea
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 61
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:16:28 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.206.181
X-Trace: news3.atl 982426491 208.63.206.181 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:14:51 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:14:51 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173201 soc.culture.israel:325550 soc.culture.jewish:529725
soc.culture.usa:598637
GCMHP’s work is disrupted
Over the past few days, the Israeli army escalated its aggression
against the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Sadly, these measures are typical Israeli, indiscriminate, collective
punishment against civilian population to which we have become
accustomed. However, the latest measure are characterized by
unprecedented severity both in their effect Palestinian’s lives, and in
their disregard for the most basic human rights.
Since Monday, the Israeli army has imposed a strict siege on the Gaza
Strip and closed all points of entry or exit from the Strip. Moreover,
it has divided the Strip into 4 separate areas. Citizens, basic goods,
and medical supplies are prevented from entering the Gaza Strip or
moving between these areas. In addition, the army has taken severe
measures against civilians as exemplified by shooting a 52-year old
farmer in his grove. The effects of this siege and separation have
paralyzed daily life in the Gaza Strip.
At GCMHP, we have felt the effects of these inhumane measures. Our
clinics in Gaza, Jabalia, Deir El-Balah, and Khan Younis have been cut
off, and staff members working in those clinics but living in different
areas have not been able to reach them. In addition, patients in areas
that have been sealed off are denied access to the clinics.
Dr. Eyad El-Sarraj, the Chairman of the Board, is unable to come back to
Palestine. Dr. Ahmad Abu Tawahina, the Executive Director, is unable to
come to the Programme Headquarter in Gaza, as he is a resident of Deir
El-Balah. The pharmacist in our Gaza clinic is prevented from reaching
the clinic, as he is a resident of Nuseirat refugee camp. A number of
secretaries as well as the nanny in the Programme’s nursery have been
unable to report to work for several days due to the forced separation.
Our training activities have also been hindered. Many of the students
and trainers of the post-graduate diploma in community mental health and
human rights live in areas that are separated from Gaza City. They are
unable to conduct their schedule of lectures, practical training, and
supervision. Also, the research department is paralyzed since the
secretary and field workers cannot report to work. Moreover, the Women’s
Empowerment branches in Deir El-Balah and Rafah are cut off from the
main center in Gaza City.
The patients are not responsible for the bombings in Israel and neither
are the professionals at GCMHP or other organizations. If Israel puts
the whole population responsible for the acts of individuals it is
unable to apprehend, then the whole Israeli society is responsible for
the massacres its army is committing in Gaza and the West Bank. It is a
sick logic that Israel feels free to use, while blaming others when they
do likewise.
We call upon all the voices of humanity to call upon the Israeli
government and diplomatic missions worldwide to stop its flagrant
violations of human rights.
=======================================
Americans who seek justice should call upon our government to put a stop
to Israel’s aggression.
We can do it, and it would help if members of the Jewish community would
declare for peace.
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:32 EST 2001
Article: 529729 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!
news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Defence for Children International/Palestine Section meets with U.N
Human Rights Inquiry Commission
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 152
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:24:11 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.206.181
X-Trace: news3.atl 982426955 208.63.206.181 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:22:35 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:22:35 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173206 soc.culture.israel:325551 soc.culture.jewish:529729
soc.culture.usa:598641
From: “DCI/PS” <[email protected]>
Defence for Children International/Palestine Section
For immediate release
17 February, 2001
ref: 0003/01
Defence for Children International/Palestine Section meets with
U.N Human Rights Inquiry Commission
Yesterday, 16 February, a delegation from Defence for Children
International/Palestine Section (DCI/PS) met with the United Nations U.N
Human Rights Inquiry Commission currently visiting the West Bank and
Gaza
Strip. The Commission was established following last year’s visit of the
UN
High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, and charged with
investigating Israeli practices during the Al Aqsa Intifada, on the
basis
of the UN High Commission for Human Rights decision S-5/1 on 19 October,
2000. The Israeli government has refused to meet with, or discuss
matters
with the Commission.
DCI/PS representatives presented a detailed report on Israeli human
rights
violations during the Intifada, focusing in particular on violations of
Palestinian children’s rights. DCI is currently preparing a detailed
Violations Report on Israeli practices during the year 2000 using a
rights-based approach centered around the 1989 UN Convention on the
Rights
of the Child (CRC), to which Israel is a States Party.
Issues discussed during the meeting included the following:
· Israel’s violation of the right to life: According to DCI/PS
fieldwork,
100 Palestinian children have been killed since the Intifada began on 29
September. Since the start of the year 2001, six children have been
killed.
DCI/PS explained that Israel has been conducting a policy of
shoot-to-kill
or seriously injury against the Palestinian population, evidenced
through
the fact that 72% of child deaths have resulted from shots fired to the
upper part of the body (head and chest). Over 2100 children have been
injured during the Intifada, while 236 were injured in the year 2000
prior
to the Intifada. Examining the statistics of injuries through violation
type, a sharp rise in injuries to the upper body has been noted by
DCI/PS
field workers in comparison with injuries prior to the Intifada (19%
prior
to Intifada compared to 31.7% during the Intifada). In addition, several
deaths have occurred as a result of the closure imposed on Palestinian
areas and at the hands of Israeli settlers.
· The effects of the Israeli closure on Palestinian life: The closure
imposed on the West Bank and Gaza Strip is a violation of international
law
as it constitutes a form of collective punishment. The DCI/PS delegation
gave a number of examples of how the closure has effected Palestinian
children, including the example of 10 year old girl-child Alaa Osaama
Hamdan. Alaa died as a result of a severe lung infection on 13 October
after her family was prevented by the Israeli imposed closure from
taking
her to the hospital in Nablus.
· The situation of Palestinian child prisoners in Israeli jails:
DCI/PS’
lawyer reported on the extreme difficulties faced in providing legal
support to children detained by the Israeli military authorities during
the
Intifada. Up until the end of December, the Israeli authorities had
closed
the military courts dealing with these cases and were arbitrarily
extending
detentions without the presence of legal defence. Large numbers of
children
have been arrested including 40 from the village of Hossan near Hebron.
Many children are being subject to torture and several have required
medical treatment as a result of this torture, including 15-year old
Mohammed Zaour, currently in Telmond Prison, who was stripped naked and
had
boiling water followed by freezing water repeatedly poured over his
head.
Once the courts reopened, children have been given sentences 3-4 times
the
length of those given prior to the Intifada. In addition, children have
been denied visits by lawyers and family members and have been
incarcerated
with criminal prisoners in many situations.
DCI/PS also discussed the Israeli propaganda regarding the events of the
Intifada, in particular the claim that Palestinians were indoctrinating
children in a culture of violence. DCI pointed out that the violence
stemming from the Israeli occupation surrounded children everywhere
during
their daily lives. The shelling of houses and schools, the continuing
violence of Israeli soldiers and settlers, as well as the large number
of
people killed by Israeli occupation forces creates an environment that
is
extremely detrimental to children’s well-being. DCI has encountered
widespread evidence of damaging pyscho-social effects on children in its
work during the Intifada. The Israeli claim that Palestinians are to
blame
is akin to blaming the victim and is a racist attitude stemming from an
occupier’s mentality.
DCI/PS welcomes the investigation of the Commission and hopes that its
findings will contribute to ending the continuing violence of the
Israeli
occupation and strengthen international efforts to protect the child
victims of this occupation.
-END-
Defence for Children International/Palestine Section
is an independent, Palestinian non-governmental
organization, established in 1992 to promote and
protect the rights of Palestinian children as articulated
in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child as well
as in other international instruments.
DCI/PS, P.O. Box 55201, Jerusalem
Tel: +972 2 240 7530
Fax: +972 2 240 7018
(Note: please try and use +970, if the above country code does not work)
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.dci-pal.org (click on ‘new’ for updated information)
Jerusalem
===================================
Isn’t it clear to the world that when Israel refuses to meet with a UN
commission sent to investigate human rights abuses, that the refusal
operates as a plea of guilty?
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:32 EST 2001
Article: 529730 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp1.njy.teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Zionists kill three more civilians in Al-Khalil
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 61
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:34:56 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.206.181
X-Trace: news2.atl 982427599 208.63.206.181 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:33:19 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:33:19 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173209 soc.culture.israel:325552 soc.culture.jewish:529730
soc.culture.usa:598644
Zionists kill three more civilians in Al-Khalil
AL-Khalil (Palestine): 17 February, 2001 – The Israeli occupation army
on
Friday killed three Palestinian civilians in the Al-Khalil region, bring
the death toll of Palestinians killed since the outbreak of the
Palestinian intifada or uprising to 420.
Palestinian sources in al-khalil said a 25-year old Palestinian man,
identified as Muhammed Ismael Hawamda, was killed Friday evening when
Israeli occupation troops opened fire on the car he was riding.
Eyewitnesses said trigger-happy soldiers opened fire from their
automatic
rifles at a car west of the village of Sammou (25 km south west of
al-khalil ), killing Hawamda instantly.
Hawamda and five other workers were reportedly returning home from
their
jobs in Beir al-Saba’.
Two more Palestinians were killed by Zionist gunfire Friday in al-Khalil
and the nearby village of Bani Naim.
Palestinian sources said Isam Rashid Tawil, 29, and Shaker Suleiman
Manasra, 25, were killed when Israeli occupation troops opened
machinegun
fire indiscriminately at civilian neighborhoods in downtown al Khalil
Friday evening.
The sources said the neighborhoods pounded were “abu Sneineh,”
“Takruri,”
and “Karantina.”
A fourth Palestinian, an elderly man aged 79 years, died when Israeli
occupation soldiers at a roadblock east of Tulkarm, in the northern West
Bank, refused to allow him to proceed to hospital.
Palestinian medical sources speak of many Palestinians patients who died
as
a result of Israeli troops denying them access to badly-needed medical
care
or simply standing their cars at Israeli roadblocks and checkpoints for
hours.
_______________________________________________________________
Proudly Serving Palestine and Al-Quds
Islamic Association for Palestine
=======================================
Can it be true that American Jews support this ongoing massacre?
Why?
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:33 EST 2001
Article: 529737 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!
news.gtei.net!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada,
soc.culture.british
Subject: KID SISTER By Israel Shamir
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 214
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:05:05 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.206.181
X-Trace: news3.atl 982429407 208.63.206.181 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:03:27 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:03:27 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173213 soc.culture.israel:325556 soc.culture.jewish:529737
soc.culture.usa:598653 soc.culture.canada:257802 soc.culture.british:548521
KID SISTER
By Israel Shamir
After the last episode of the ‘Fateful Elections’, the actors amiably
shared the trophies backstage. The muse of Israeli politics, like
Coca-Cola, wishes to please everybody. Whoever thought that Barak was
the best candidate, will be pleased to have him back in power as the
Minister of Defense. Those who were about to get nostalgic for Shimon
Peres, and were upset that he was not allowed to run, will have Peres in
the secondbest bed, as Shakespeare’s widow. And yesterday’s monster
Sharon has miraculously evolved into a wise statesman. It really did
make no sense to vote.
The elections were a sham, but the siege of Palestinian villages is very
real. Soldiers, who can’t find enough demonstrators for target practice,
shoot at passenger cars. Gaza is awash with a new sort of gas. Israeli
tanks barrage suburbs of Bethlehem. A UN commission, sent to investigate
the war crimes, received the short shrift: how dare they speak of war
crimes? The Mitchell commission also got brushed aside last week. As the
response, the US warplanes bombed … Iraq (surely some mistake?)
Innocent outsiders must question how Israel can get off scot-free with
war crimes and receive the blessings of the US congress as a bonus?
Could it be the Divine intervention? The answer is no. There is another
agent to thank for this state of affairs. We, Israelis, enjoy full
immunity, and have no doubt, if and when our government decides to turn
the Palestinians into canned meat, the New York Times will celebrate its
nutritional values. If that is their intent, they should hasten the
process, because with the present blockade, the Palestinians are losing
weight with every passing day.
All is fine on the Israeli side of the barricades. The Israeli shekel
remains strong. Even George Soros knows that it would not be healthy to
take a position against it. The Tel Aviv stock exchange rallies on the
news that Intel has decided to invest a cool five billion dollars in
Israel. The beauty of it all is that the siege of the Palestinians and
the prosperity of Tel Aviv are maintained at the expense of the American
taxpayer and investor. Since 1967, we have received some 170 billion
dollars from the people of the US. This money could be used to feed and
school all the underprivileged kids of America. It could pay to
compensate the descendants of the African slaves and help them out of
their hardship. It could save the sick and comfort the miserable; it
could turn Africa into a paradise. But it was kidnapped and shipped to
our shores. Every dollar invested by the Israeli lobby into senators and
congressmen has been returned a hundred fold, as promised by the Bible.
Besides the taxpayer’s money, the supporters of Israel – business
executives – invested billions of dollars that their shareholders
entrusted them with. There is no sound business reason behind Intel’s
investment, or other similar investments – Israel has no pool of
qualified workers, they have to be imported like everything else. The
risk of the investments in our country is great and the profits are
meager. But then again, they are playing with somebody else’s money.
Israel’s supporters fleece America in a grand way, but they also go
after other prey. In England, a Czech Jewish émigré who adopted the name
of Robert Maxwell, stole millions of dollars from the pension funds of
his British employees and shipped the money to Israel. He was found dead
in suspicious circumstances, but Israel never refunded the stolen goods.
In another English scandal, Dame Shirley Porter, daughter of salesman
Jack Cohen, the supermarket chain owner and the one-time mayor,
misappropriated 50 million dollars and presented lavish gifts to the Tel
Aviv University, built on the ruins of the destroyed Palestinian village
of Sheikh Munis. She was found guilty by the British High Court and
sentenced to the fine of 27 million pounds. As all her property had
already been transferred to Israel, the fine remains unpaid. Again,
Israel did not return the stolen goods.
Moving on to France, a group of Israeli and local Jewish financiers
transferred to Israel some 40 million of public funds and disappeared to
Tel Aviv. A Russian Jew and Israeli citizen Lev Cherny, a great
supporter of Yeltsin’s democracy, ‘privatized’ the Russian aluminum
industry, which has the biggest reserves in the world. Now the income
>from that industry flows directly to lovely Savion, the Beverly Hills of
Israel. While back in the frozen wastes of Siberia, the population has
been reduced to poverty. The Swiss and the Germans keep paying umpteen
billions of dollars to Israel for the confiscated property of Jews,
though Israel never paid even one penny for the confiscated Gentile
property. The Europeans meekly comply under threat of the toughest of
brothers Cray, the mightiest enforcer of Jewish loans, the US.
Israel’s supporters overseas are like a giant Hoover machine, sucking
out money and sweat from all over the world. Witness Mark Rich, the
thieving billionaire, pardoned by the best supporter of Israel, Bill
Clinton? He was a Mossad agent. Remember Fujimori, a thieving
ex-president of Peru? Israeli banks helped him to launder the money.
Sometimes, the Palestinians and their friends bemoan their inability to
build up their own Arab lobby to counteract the Israeli lobby. They miss
the most important point. The Israeli lobby should not be just a
Palestinian concern, but the concern of all Americans. When oil runs out
of a tanker’s hulk, it should concern the crew and the owners, not only
the fish. Israel’s supporters swindle all Americans of their money, and
antagonize America’s potential friends abroad. Many American politicians
support the swindle in order to remain in power. For personal political
ambitions, they betray the trust of their voters.
John F. Kennedy told Gore Vidal, that in 1948, Harry Truman was on the
verge of losing the presidential election, but a Zionist supporter
brought to him 2 million dollars cash and saved his skin. It caused
America to vote for the creation of the Jewish State. This pattern
perpetuates itself. The politicians take bribes, sell pardons, accept
‘donations’, and help the Israeli lobby to rob the people of America.
The actual direct contribution of American Jews for the welfare of
Israel is quite small and tax exempt. It would hardly cover the cost of
the missiles and nerve gas to kill Palestinians, much less support the
Israeli life style to which we have become accustomed. But what Israel
supporters collect in campaign contributions is enough to bribe
politicians and embezzle a good chunk of American money from the US
treasury. If such a swindle would be hatched by, say, the Libyan lobby,
the media would rightly demand these people be registered as foreign
agents of influence. That is where the Israeli lobby cashes in on the
solidarity of the many American Jews and right-wing Christian Zionists
in the national media.
Ahmed Amr, an independent journalist from Seattle, Washington, has
lamented the total absence of the Arab-Americans in the American media,
saying ‘Could it be, that like white men can’t jump, the Arab-Americans
can’t write? Could it be that mainly Jewish gentlemen can write?’ Well,
he should know better. Even Jews, who can write but fail to support
Israel, are also deprived of access to the national mainstream media.
Israel’s supporters have silenced the voice of Americans who would speak
up for the Palestinians, including notable Jewish intellectuals like
Chomsky. They silenced also the “native” voice of Americans. The stock
exchange rises and falls, but there is no new Faulkner out of the South,
no new Cheever in New England, no new John Barth from Maryland. The
Hollywood-made films have degraded into sheer escapism and production of
Arab-hate crap.
The enemy of Palestinians and of ordinary Americans, British and French
citizens is not ‘the Jew’, as some people tend to think. There are
thousands and thousands of wonderful folk of Jewish descent – doctors,
artists, rabbis, unemployed. A lot of them object to Israeli crimes and
to AIPAC policies. Some of them are on the front line of the struggle
for human rights. Now the time has come for us to stand up and be
counted.
The hesitating American Jews are in the position of the elder sister in
Raymond Chandler’s Big Sleep, who covers up the crimes of her wild kid
sister. Probably you remember it by one of the best American movies of
all times, scripted by William Faulkner, directed by Howard Hawks and
acted by Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. As the cover up continues,
the young sister comes to believe that she has immunity and keeps on her
killing spree. Eventually her crimes endanger the seemingly secure
position of the elder sister. It is not a day too early for misguided
Lauren to call for Bogart and to rein the crazed youth in, before she
will bring the house down on the heads of her blind supporters.
In spiritual terms, the blind support of Israel divided the Jews into
the sheep and the goats (Mt 25:32), into sons of saints and sons of
Mamon worshippers, the descendants of prophets and of their killers,
those who profess unity of mankind and adepts of national exclusivity,
those who wait for the saviour of man and those who expect the enslaver
of gentiles. The former ones will make the name of Jews blessed, but
those who would partake in the starving of poor peasants under
Israeli-imposed siege, those who would let them rot in jails, they will
certainly bring shame to all of us.
The covenant of Israel’s supporters is not an ethnic monolith. It admits
Gentiles, as well; it is enough to disregard the poor, the weak, the
oppressed, and you can enter it. On the other hand, every Jew can opt
out of it by rejecting Israeli crimes. There is no biological guilt or
virtue. The believing Jews of Naturei Karta opted out and supported the
Palestinian right to life. So did Jews for Justice, and many others who
did not care to join a political group, but stood away from evil. Wise
French noblemen opted out of the Ancienne Regime in 1789; they did not
wait for the ‘national razor’ of 1793.
It is in interests of Americans, Jews and Gentiles alike, to start with
a full embargo of Israel. The idea of an exclusive Jewish state is as
wrong as the idea of an exclusive Aryan or White State. Palestine/Israel
should become a democracy based on the principle of ONE MAN – ONE VOTE.
Do not worry for us, Israelis and Palestinians, – we, the sons of
Abraham, can live together. Just cut off the supplies to the Generals’
Junta, and we shall see the light.
A democratic Israel/Palestine will turn off the Zionist Hoover machine.
The long madness of Don Quixote will be over, and he will be called
again Don Quexana the Good. The fruits of labor will come to those who
need it, not to Israeli generals. Americans will again become welcome
guests in the Middle East. Who knows, maybe even the great American
cinema will be reborn from its golden ashes.
Jaffa, 17.2.2001
Israel Shamir is one of best-known Russian Israeli writers and
journalists. He wrote for Haaretz, BBC, Pravda and translated Agnon,
Joyce and Chandler into Russian. His articles The Rape of Dulcinea and
The Test Failed could be found on many Internet sites,
www.thestruggle.org, www.antiwar, www.NileMedia etc. He can be reached
at [email protected], or write P.O.B. 23714 Tel Aviv 61236
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:33 EST 2001
Article: 529805 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!
news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Gaza Community Mental Health Program work is disrupted : a plea
References: <3A8EA3DC.CF5E0D2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 8
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 19:43:36 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.142
X-Trace: news2.atl 982460511 208.61.185.142 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:41:51 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:41:51 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173247 soc.culture.israel:325616 soc.culture.jewish:529805
soc.culture.usa:598800
The people in Gaza don’t think so, maybe the Zionists do.
Their humor is reminiscent of the Nazis.
RLA
Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
> This must be a joke.
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:33 EST 2001
Article: 529810 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!
not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Why Jews Choose Censorship Over Open Debate
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 29
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:31:11 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.142
X-Trace: news2.atl 982463366 208.61.185.142 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:29:26 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:29:26 EST
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.nationalism.white:505844 alt.revisionism:866954 soc.culture.jewish:529810
alt.religion.christian:847292
Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> [email protected] (Joseph Hertzlinger) writes:
>
> > On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:18:44 GMT, American Patriot
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >–
> > >”We don’t believe free speech extends to Nazis or fascists or racists.”
> > >
> > >- Leonard Zakim of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, as quoted in the
> > >Jewish Advocate (May 19, 1994)
> >
> > I have no reason to believe he speaks for the Jewish community.
>
> I think he speaks for many in the Jewish community, and it’s
> understandable that he does, given the behavior of Nazis and fascists
> and racists. It’s still, however, not the law in the US; the
> Constitution protects those scum, as perhaps it should.
It protects you too Joel. The Jewish student group at Binghamton University
in New York recently protested the planned visit of Hanan Ashrawi on the
grounds that it would cause trouble in the community. They lost, but they
tried
to stifle her speech.
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:34 EST 2001
Article: 529897 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!
not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Gaza Community Mental Health Program work is disrupted : a plea
References: <3A8EA3DC.CF5E0D2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3A8F28C[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 21
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:12:22 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.207.95
X-Trace: news2.atl 982527042 208.63.207.95 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:10:42 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:10:42 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173323 soc.culture.israel:325726 soc.culture.jewish:529897
soc.culture.usa:599007
If I lived under the constant strain of not knowing whether I was going to live
or die
that Palestinians live with, my mental health wouldn’t be the greatest either.
RLA
Alegro wrote:
> Roger, what Joseph Hertzlinger probably meant was that “mental health” is an
> oxymoron in reference to Palis…
>
> “Roger Alexander” <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]…
> > The people in Gaza don’t think so, maybe the Zionists do.
> > Their humor is reminiscent of the Nazis.
> > RLA
> >
> > Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
> >
> > > This must be a joke.
> >
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:34 EST 2001
Article: 529900 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mohammedan Anthem
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 41
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:19:10 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.63.207.95
X-Trace: news2.atl 982527450 208.63.207.95 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:17:30 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:17:30 EST
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.israel:325727 talk.politics.mideast:173324 soc.culture.jewish:529900
This jerk has posted stuff so rotten on Hank Roth’s boards that Roth has
vowed to stop the next
stupidity. And this is from a guy, Roth, so imbued with Zionism that he
gladly takes posts from
Jack Garbuz and Makowsky.
RLA
Diggler wrote:
> Is this meant to be witty or remotely funny ??
>
> And he uses “Mohammedan” – talk about ignorance – lol
>
> Wayne M. Syvinski <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]…
> > Here it is…
> >
> > An anthem the Mohammedans, especially the Palestinians, can use.
> >
> > The lyrics are original, but the tune is “Hatikvah” (National Anthem of
> > Israel, for those occasional readers)
> >
> > ===
> >
> > “Mohammedan Anthem”
> >
> > We’re Mohammedans, with violence on our minds,
> > seeking to kill all Jews that we can find.
> > Yes, we will steal the land back promised to the Jews
> > and through all this we’ll kill the Christians too.
> >
> > Lying through our teeth to the world press;
> > Strapping bombs upon our children’s chests,
> > paying big bounties to families when they die;
> > and assurance of heaven for killing a rabbi.
> >
> > Violence and terror are the tools we use
> > making the world think the oppressors are the Jews.
> >
> >
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:35 EST 2001
Article: 529985 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!falcon.america.net!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Mohammedan Anthem
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<3A902E3E.6E0B8A4[email protected]> <NTYj6.239$%[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 36
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:21:32 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.105
X-Trace: news2.atl 982549186 208.61.185.105 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:19:46 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:19:46 EST
Xref: hub.org soc.culture.israel:325781 talk.politics.mideast:173358 soc.culture.jewish:529985
There were posts from Syvinski and from Makowski on one of Roth’s boards last
week.
RLA
“Wayne M. Syvinski” wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Roger Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
> > # This jerk has posted stuff so rotten on Hank Roth’s boards that Roth has
> > # vowed to stop the next
> > # stupidity. And this is from a guy, Roth, so imbued with Zionism that he
> > # gladly takes posts from
> > # Jack Garbuz and Makowsky.
> > # RLA
>
> This article hasn’t hit my news server yet (I’m quoting from a followup that
> did), but I presume I’m the “jerk” in question.
>
> #1: I don’t know who Hank Roth is.
> #2: I therefore have never intentionally posted to “Hank Roth’s boards”,
> wherever it is/they are.
> #3: I for some time now have only posted to Usenet and to a local UBB-based
> site that I’m sure has nothing to do with Hank Roth.
> #4: I have never been censured by anyone in any official capacity for the
> items I have posted to Usenet or any other message board.
> #5: Never has anyone named Hank Roth (or anyone else, for that matter)
> threatened to cancel or otherwise limit my posting of anything.
>
> The point, of course – you may think the stuff I post is rotten, but tough
> s***.
>
> So…as loathe as I am to put up something not directly germane to this
> group, I’m not putting up with your BS unchallenged, and I’ll keep posting
> all the satire I want. You and your Moslem totalitarianists haven’t managed
> to get our First Amendment repealed yet.
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:35 EST 2001
Article: 529986 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.atl!
news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Gaza Community Mental Health Program work is disrupted : a plea
References: <3A8EA3DC.CF5E0D2[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <WfTj6.7[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<180220011710529645%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 21
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:26:32 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.105
X-Trace: news2.atl 982549486 208.61.185.105 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:46 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:46 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173361 soc.culture.israel:325784 soc.culture.jewish:529986
soc.culture.usa:599095
Perhaps. But just answer this. Is it right what Israel is doing to the
Palestinians?
A simple yes or no will do.
RLA
Albert Reingewirtz wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Roger Alexander
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > If I lived under the constant strain of not knowing whether I was going to
> > live
> > or die
> > that Palestinians live with, my mental health wouldn’t be the greatest either.
> > RLA
> >
>
> As it is you should ne locked up. You are beyond disturbed. When are
> you going to commit suicide? I would love to sell tickets for the
> event. Many people would pay good money for this, moron!
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:36 EST 2001
Article: 529990 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!
not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ISRAELI SETTLERS WORSHIP MASS MURDERER
References: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 103
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:04:55 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.105
X-Trace: news1.atl 982551788 208.61.185.105 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:03:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:03:08 EST
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.bush:307201 soc.culture.israel:325791 soc.culture.jewish:529990
talk.politics.mideast:173368
You can believe it. Most of these settlers are crazy fanatics imported from
Brooklyn, and New Joisey.
RLA
Bill Zann wrote:
> >Goldstein killed 29 people before being bludgeoned to death. Far from
> >being repudiated by his fellow settlers in Kiryat Arba, the fanatical
> >wing of the Jewish national religious movement turned his grave into a
> >saintly pilgrimage site.
>
> Is it for real?
>
> I could not believe that my opininion on Israeli settlers could get ever
> lower, but if the above is true, I was wrong.
>
> If the above is true, then the Israeli settlers are nothing than bunch of
> HYENAS.
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/20001015/A50969-2000Oct14.html
>
> >The dream of peace becomes a violent nightmare once more
> >By ANTON LA GUARDIA
> >Sunday 15 October 2000
>
> >The handshake on the South Lawn of the White House was supposed to
> >symbolise the end of a century of conflict between Zionism and Arab
> >nationalism.
>
> >Yasser Arafat, his head-scarf shaped like a map of Palestine, beamed as
> >the world applauded the former terrorist. Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli
> >general wearing a statesman’s suit, hesitated and scowled as he shook Mr
> >Arafat’s hand.
>
> >Although a secular man, Mr Rabin was moved to quote the Bible. “He
> >maketh peace in his high places. He shall make peace for us and for all
> >of Israel. And they shall say: Amen.”
>
> >Little did he know that seven years after the ceremony in 1993 to sign
> >the autonomy accords agreed in Oslo this religious vision of peace would
> >turn into the spectre of holy war. The high places of God – the Temple
> >Mount, Joseph’s Tomb, Rachel’s Tomb and others – became places of
> >bloodshed. “Peace” brought unprecedented violence to Israeli civilians –
> >suicide bombs, assassination and the fear of civil war. With Israel’s
> >retaliatory measures, Palestinians became poorer, frustrated and
> >disillusioned with the promise of statehood.
>
> >The dove of peace – represented as bewildered, limping and often dead in
> >a pool of blood – was a constant feature of cartoons. It was killed by a
> >thousand cuts.
>
> >The first step in the slide towards jihad came, perhaps appropriately,
> >in the Jews’ “Mother City” of Hebron, the burial place of Abraham and
> >King David’s first capital.
>
> >Before dawn in February 1994, when the Jewish feast of Purim coincided
> >with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, the religious American doctor
> >Baruch Goldstein burst into the Ibrahimi mosque and fired on a crowd of
> >Muslims prostrate in prayer.
>
> >Goldstein killed 29 people before being bludgeoned to death. Far from
> >being repudiated by his fellow settlers in Kiryat Arba, the fanatical
> >wing of the Jewish national religious movement turned his grave into a
> >saintly pilgrimage site.
>
> >His admirers said his act had been the result of his anger at the number
> >of times he had had to dip his hands in the blood of Jewish victims shot
> >by the Muslim Hamas movement.
>
> >By his action, though, Goldstein ensured that Hamas transformed its
> >tactics from hit-and-run shootings to suicide bombings. Forty days after
> >the Hebron massacre, a Palestinian blew himself up in a car next to a
> >crowded bus in Afula.
>
> >For the next two years, slow-moving peace negotiations were accompanied
> >by suicide bombings on Israel’s buses. As the Palestine Liberation
> >Organisation moved away from armed struggle, Hamas became more
> >aggressive in its belief “there is no solution to the Palestinian
> >problem except by jihad”.
>
> >The suicide bombings destroyed many Israelis’ confidence in peace. In
> >November 1995, Yigal Amir, a student, assassinated Yitzhak Rabin in Tel
> >Aviv. He had believed Rabin was sacrificing not only the God-given land
> >but also Jewish lives. In 1996, suicide bombs destroyed the election
> >hopes of Mr Rabin’s successor, Shimon Peres. Peace negotiations became
> >semi-frozen for the three years of Benjamin Netanyahu’s leadership.
> >Hamas’ attacks declined suddenly. In their place, Mr Arafat became
> >involved in the violence. In September 1996, riots over the opening of
> >an archaeological tunnel under the Temple Mount degenerated into
> >gunfights.
>
> >It was a prelude to the fortnight of mayhem that has engulfed Israelis
> >and Palestinians after the opposition leader, Ariel Sharon, made a
> >provocative visit to the Temple Mount. This time, though, the violence
> >has spun into wider sectarian clashes.
>
> >Even those who ardently believed in peace are now asking themselves
> >whether it will ever be possible. On the Via Dolorosa yesterday, a
> >Palestinian said: “There will not be peace for decades. Another
> >generation will have to do it.”
>
> >TELEGRAPH
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:36 EST 2001
Article: 530041 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp1.njy.teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Television incident highlights bad feelings between CJC and B’nai Brith
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 191
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:40:18 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.185.47
X-Trace: news1.atl 982593521 208.61.185.47 (Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:38:41 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:38:41 EST
Xref: hub.org talk.politics.mideast:173416 soc.culture.jewish:530041 soc.culture.usa:599197
soc.culture.canada:257973
February 17, 2001
Jewish ‘voices’ in power clash
Television incident highlights bad feelings between CJC and B’nai Brith
Mark Gollom
National Post
On the day Israelis voted to significantly change the political climate
of
their country, a turf war on Toronto’s Jewish landscape was heating up.
As part of its Israeli election coverage, CBC Newsworld prepared to air
a
live interview from the Lipa Green building on Bathurst Street, with
representatives from three of the city’s small Jewish organizations.
The fourth talking head was scheduled to be Frank Dimant, executive
vice-president of B’nai Brith Canada, one of the two large Jewish groups
based in Toronto, the other being the Canadian Jewish Congress (CJC).
This did not sit well with the CJC and its executive director, Bernie
Farber.
Mr. Farber apparently threatened to eject the news crew upon learning a
member of his organization would not be allowed to participate in a
panel
discussion being held inside a building funded by his group. (A CJC
source
says the threat only came after a CBC producer made “insulting” remarks
to
Mr. Farber.)
According to the CBC (whose spokespeople said they did not know who
owned
the building and frankly did not care), the producer insisted on keeping
the three lesser-known speakers to bring in fresh viewpoints on the
issue.
With one spot available, minutes from airtime and fearing the show was
on
the verge of collapse, the decision was made: Mr. Dimant was out and
Moshe
Ronen, president of the CJC, was in.
Days later, The Jewish Tribune, a bi-weekly newspaper published by B’nai
Brith, reported a one-sided account of the incident on its front page
under
the headline “Entire Community Embarrassed by CJC.”
There are now as many versions of the story as there are people to tell
it.
Whatever the truth, what is truly “embarrassing,” according to some in
the
Jewish community, is the endless squabbling between two organizations
whose
goals may be getting lost in their battle for the media spotlight.
Just weeks ago, the Tribune accused its rival paper, the Canadian Jewish
News, of pandering to the CJC when it ran a picture of that
organization’s
members but cropped out representatives of B’nai Brith.
Some within the CJC say Mr. Dimant is stirring the pot and using his
power
with the Tribune to take cheap, unsubstantiated shots at their group.
They say the CJC has never publicly denounced B’nai Brith.
There are also tales of bickering over the order of speakers at public
events, bickering over the CJC trying to exclude B’nai Brith from
events,
and bickering that B’nai Brith shamelessly throws up signs at joint
rallies.
Caught in-between are members of the Jewish community who say they must
ensure they have placated both groups so as not to incur their ire.
“It’s childish. It’s a battle of egos,” said an observer who doesn’t
work
for either group. “We’re talking about huge egos. People who live and
breathe to see themselves in the press.
“Something happens — anti-Semitism, an attack on a synagogue — you’ll
be
sure they will be tripping over themselves to see who gets more media
attention.”
A senior police official said working with the two groups on hate crimes
was like “walking on glass.”
Both groups would help the police but then lobby to be the only one
credited publicly, he said.
“There seemed to be a lot of rivalry between the two organizations,” he
said.
For years the CJC was the only game in town when it came to representing
the views of the Jewish community. B’nai Brith Canada relegated itself
mostly to youth issues, sponsoring baseball and soccer clubs.
But in the late 1970s, when B’nai Brith created the League of Human
Rights,
an organization meant specifically to deal with anti-Semitism, the two
groups began to compete for territory.
B’nai Brith’s change in focus made the differences between the two
groups
largely structural. The CJC, with offices throughout Canada, has an open
membership and is bankrolled by the United Jewish Appeal, the largest
fundraising organization for Jewish causes.
Conversely, B’nai Brith, also national in scope, is limited to members
only
and funded by private donations and membership fees.
Observers say the battle for headlines is partially fuelled by the need
for
funding.
“B’nai Brith is a self-funding organization. The more prominence, the
more
they raise money,” said another observer. “As for the CJC, if the UJA
feels
congress is not pulling their weight, they may cut them back.”
The result is that independent groups that have sought assistance from
either organization are pressured into taking sides and have ended up
“caught in an ugly political crossfire,” said Dave Gordon, publisher of
Afterword, a national Jewish newspaper.
“Although Afterword is an independent entity, it seems it’s still a
constant political tightrope walk whenever we need to call on an
organization for any sort of assistance.”
He said he has received flak over something as benign as renting a hall
at
one organization’s building. “It was perceived by the other organization
as
taking allegiance to a side.”
Some say the conflict is a result of a personal dislike between the
left-leaning Mr. Farber and the right-of-centre Mr. Dimant.
Mr. Dimant said his main problem with the CJC is its alleged
unwillingness
to allow others to speak for Jews.
“CJC claims to be the only spokes-organization for the Jewish community.
And while it’s a fine organization, it’s not the only
spokes-organization,”
Mr. Dimant said.
He referred to the CBC incident as “regrettable and distasteful” but
added
“there have been incidents of this type in the past.”
Mr. Farber refused to speak at any length about the CBC incident or the
relationship with B’nai Brith, saying only, “We are saddened by any
attempt
to make a public issue of supposed inter-organizational wrangling. There
are too many serious issues confronting the Jewish community for us to
dignify these petty and divisive allegations with any further response.”
With Canada’s Jewish population estimated at about 400,000, some may
question the need for two large organizations representing such a small
community.
But Robb Ritter, executive director of the Canada-Israel Committee, said
both have a valuable contribution to make and both are members of his
organization, which must reach a consensus before issuing statements.
But he agreed “the interests of our community would be best served if
these
two valuable organizations would collaborate instead of compete.” <end>
==================================
You know this is the straight scoop, it’s from the National Post.
RLA
From [email protected] Tue Mar 6 16:02:30 EST 2001
Article: 526312 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: hub.org!hub.org!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!
newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: Roger Alexander <[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Settlement Of Occupied Territories = WAR CRIME
References: <[email protected]> <95g5pd$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 19
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 20:05:41 -0600
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.61.184.42
X-Trace: news1.atl 981252217 208.61.184.42 (Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:03:37 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:03:37 EST
Xref: hub.org alt.politics.usa.republican:1269055 soc.culture.israel:322873 soc.culture.jewish:526312
talk.politics.mideast:171560
