Documents

Abrams 0196-3, Abrams Kevin

Kevin, you’re getting some of your Israeli friends and American
friends of Israel very upset.

They, and alt.sex.pedophilia have been the only real complainers
about this. I guess that’s where the high blood pressure is
concentrated.

You started this by adding irrelevant israeli newsgroups to your
list when replying to us. (I assume you’re not the one who spammed in
the pedophiles, are you?)

I started out by trimming out those groups when replying to you but
you kept adding them back in.

Not only that, but with time you added more israeli-orientated
groups to the list.

I don’t exist on this earth to trim your lists for you.

Please trim before you spam. If you don’t know how to trim your
newsgroups, ask your friendly mohel.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 00:51:03 PST 1996
Article: 18494 of alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!
homer.alpha.net!usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.activism
,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: An African Disease for Leone Nero, the Black Lion
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 01:40:53 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.42.202
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.rush-limbaugh:91460 alt.politics.usa.republican:129206 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:256045
alt.activism:18494 alt.politics.homosexuality:80339

[email protected] (Leone Nero) wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:

换Those who think there are no laws in the book against sodomy are sadly
换mistaken, since many states do have laws that make sex between men a
换felony. Unfortunately for this country, those laws (like so many others)
换are not enforced. Now, in response to the individual who said that if

Yes.

If we had rigidly enforced the laws against mixing the races, then
whites whouldn’t have the African disease AIDS.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 07:42:18 PST 1996
Article: 18740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!
nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Enough of Pink Talk and Apulecius
Date: 3 Jan 1996 07:57:02 -0700
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 41
Sender: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c9uia$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
X-Posted-By: ip219.msp.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26299 alt.society.conservatism:24706 alt.society.civil-liberty:39424
alt.sex.pedophilia:13060 alt.sex.homosexual:9524 alt.sex.advocacy:681 alt.revisionism:18740
alt.religion.sexuality:7716 alt.politics.usa.misc:48839 alt.politics.sex:7806 alt.politics.homosexuality:80360
alt.christnet:41813 alt.books.reviews:15600 alt.activism:18561

All of these ads for the Pink Swastika Book are not appropriate in any
news group. I am tired of all the “hate mail” spamming 17 newsgroups.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! (Yes I’m shouting)
Here is the guys internet information. I am making a complaint and
mailing copies of posts to the FBI because hate crimes can be
considered a federal offense.
You can do what you want with this info:

MIX Communications (MIXCOM-DOM)
P.O. Box 17166
Milwaukee, WI 53217

Domain Name: MIXCOM.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Roth, Dean A. (DAR20) [email protected]
(414) 351-1868 (FAX) (414) 351-5783

Record last updated on 30-Mar-95.
Record created on 04-Jan-91.

Domain servers in listed order:

MIXCOM.MIXCOM.COM 198.137.186.100
HOMER.ALPHA.NET 156.46.10.10

Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS
——————————
Milwaukee, WI Office: (414) 290-2020
BBS Modem: (414) 290-2050
Subscription Info: [email protected]

MIX ID Name Status
——– —————————— ———-
eeaaee Al Geiersbach Off-line

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 07:42:24 PST 1996
Article: 18767 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!
news.math.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!
usc!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.luc.edu!orion.it.luc.edu!msmith5
From: [email protected] (Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual
,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 4 Jan 1996 06:45:09 GMT
Organization: Loyola University Chicago
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 147.126.1.9
NNTP-Posting-User: msmith5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24765 alt.society.civil-liberty:39445 alt.sex.pedophilia:13070
alt.sex.homosexual:9530 alt.sex.advocacy:688 alt.revisionism:18767 alt.religion.sexuality:7725
alt.politics.usa.misc:48876 alt.politics.sex:7815 alt.politics.homosexuality:80383

david petry ([email protected]) wrote:
: It’s pretty obvious in what ways homosexuality does great harm,

I don’t know about that…hell I live in one of the coolest
neighborhoods in Chicago (Andersonville) and we have this humongous gay
and lesbian population. Our crime rate is lower than that of most suburbs;
our economy is thriving and constantly expanding; and all this while we
have a population density in this area aproximately equal to that of
Singapore. I haven’t seen any harm being done to the neighborhood or
its residents. Maybe you ought to take a look around here and see for
yourself what the neighborhood turns into when gays and lesbians flock
in. I garuntee you’ll appreciate the results. 🙂 (Oh yeah, we have a huge
immigrant population too)

: but in political battles, the obvious is often ignored.

It’s “ignored” because it is not true.

: For many people, the whole purpose of life is to promote life. That is,
: many people want to create an environment in which their children can
: thrive and love life and love their parents for giving them life. And
: they want to see their children do the same in turn for their own children.
: They want to pass along this love for life. That’s what makes life
: meaningful for these people. It gives people a sense of purpose and
: direction, and it makes life’s hardships tolerable.

I agree mostly, but love for life is not limited to parents who have
children. Artists, poets, authors, musicians, good friends, &c. can
also convey a love for life to the world at large, and to children in
particular, without having children themselves. If you lived here
you’d see the very life-affirming vibrant culture that surrounds this
neighborhood…probably *because* this area is so diverse!

: So if the homosexuals seduce those children into a lifestyle which does
: not promote life,

I’ve known people who were open homosexuals since I was six. Nobody
*recruited* me, pal. But since you seem to have a conspiracy in mind,
let’s see you back it up. Where are your statistics proving that
homosexuals recruit young children? Let’s see figures from the FBI or
CDC or Kinsey Institute. The burden of proof that a conspiracy exists
rests with you.

: the parents might reasonably feel that something very
: valuable has been destroyed. Their children will have lost sight of that
: which is most important in life, and in a genetic sense, a murder has
: been committed. Life, in the abstract sense, has been destroyed.

Priests and nuns don’t have children either. Are these lifestyles
destructive also?

: Those who promote homosexuality as being on a par with heterosexuality
: are in fact denying parents the right to concern themselves with this
: abstract notion of promoting life itself.

There is nothing abstract about what you are talking about. You have
limited the affirmation of life to the concrete: having children. It
is frankly a very shallow definition of life which, far from being
loving or life-affirming, is materialistic and places emphasis on mere
survival of the species.

: That is, the gay rights
: advocates are attempting to use the law to impose a particular belief
: system upon our society.

The same can be said of the opposition: that they are using the law to
impose a particular belief system (which states that homosexuality is
immoral) upon our society.

: And in many people’s opinions, that belief
: system is built upon hatred – a rejection of the fundumental love of
: life which is essential to a happy and meaningful life.

These opinions are sadly misinformed. In your particular case, they are
misinformed because you base them on (1) a rather nihilistic
definition of life as simply survival of the species through children and
(2) total ignorance of gay and lesbian culture.

: The homosexuals, freed from the burden of caring for the next generation,
: do have more resources with which to “enjoy” life in a hedonistic sense.
: They can afford flashier clothes and fancier toys, and they have more time
: to play. They can afford to spend time fabricating seductive philosophies
: to rationalize and to glamorize their lifestyle. They can make their
: lifestyle seductive to impressionable and naive children.

Same can be said of childless yuppies, priests, nuns, &c. Why
homosexuals in particular?

: So it is neither suprising nor unreasonable

This is where you are wrong, it is *very* unreasonable.

: that parents should support
: laws which tend to reduce the chances that their children will be seduced
: by the homosexual lifestyle. Parents do have a legitimate interest in
: protecting their children from the homosexual world view.

So they can have grandchildren? This is far, far from a legitimate
interest.

You haven’t proved your case.

Blessed Be
Mike Smith

This post copyright Michael Smith, all rights reserved, (c) 1996. All
networks have permission to reproduce this post, with the sole and unique
exception of Compuserve. Compuserve may reproduce this post for their
users for a cost of $50 per post flat fee. Failure to notify Michael Smith
of reproduction of this post will be understood as acceptance of terms of
this copyright agreement. This fee is collectable once a year until such
a time as Compuserve re-activiates all newsgroups related to homosexuality,
at which time the fee is no longer charged.
DISCLAIMER: My opinions do not necesarily, or even remotely, reflect those
of Loyola University, Chicago

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 09:42:34 PST 1996
Article: 39371 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!
math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.luc.edu!orion.it.luc.edu!msmith5
From: [email protected] (Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,
alt.sex.homosexual,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: 3 Jan 1996 18:29:21 GMT
Organization: Loyola University Chicago
Lines: 103
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4c5unc$su[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 147.126.1.9
NNTP-Posting-User: msmith5
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26273 alt.society.conservatism:24577 alt.society.civil-liberty:39371
alt.sex.homosexual:9511 alt.religion.sexuality:7699 alt.politics.usa.misc:48720 alt.politics.sex:7787
alt.politics.homosexuality:80297 alt.homosexual:49360 alt.books.reviews:15590 alt.activism:18396

[email protected] wrote:
: Mike,

: > In order for homosexuality to be considered a disease, there has to be
: > POSITIVE IRREFUTABLE proof to back up such a consideration. In other
: > words, the burden of proof lies with YOU, once again.

: I disagree, the burden of `proof’ lies with you folks. After all,
: it’s you who wants the whole nation to accept homosexuality as a normal
: and equally valid form of sexual expression alongside heterosexuality.

Quite the opposite: society has assumed for a long time that
homosexuality is immoral and an invalid form of sexual expression.

Let us turn the situation around for a second. There are those who
believe that all Jews are in a conspiracy to kill Gentles, including
Christians. Am I to believe these theories? Am I to believe these
theories if most of society dislikes Jews?

The fact is that neither the anti-Jewish theories going around nor the
anti-gay theories you espouse have suffiencent backing to demonstrate
that either group is engaged in a conspiracy.

Now a point that is closer to home. Many Christians assume that Jews are
immoral because they do not accept Christ. Society has accepted this as
“fact” for thousands of years. Does the burden of proof lie with *you*
that Jews are not inherently immoral, or with the *Christians* to
demonstrate *their* case?

In both cases, the burden of proof lies with the accuser. In this case,
the accuser is yourself, even if most of society is backing you up, and
you *must* prove your case. Popularity of the proposition does not
constitute proof.

: I am saying, and will continue to say, that in all areas, whether
: historical, religious or scientific you have no legitimate basis upon
: which to substantiate your claims for acceptance other, than it being
: a personal `preference’ or `orientation.’

Even if you are correct here, *which you are not*, there is no basis for
you to claim that homosexuality is a disease *or* that the gay culture is
directly responsible and culpable for the rise of Hitler.

Even so, as stated, *you are incorrect* in your assertion. Historically
homosexuality was considered normal in many cultures, not the least of
which were Greece and Rome. The fact that Paul had to make up a word for
homosexual prostitution in Greek should tell us something. More to the
point, Michel Foucault gives a quite brilliant analysis of Greek
philosophy and drama wrt homosexuality. Part of his analysis focuses on
the philosophical problem of the time, the relationship between a
free-born boy and a grown man, which at the time was considered part of
the introduction of said boy to society at large.

Scientifically speaking there are multiple articles published by the
likes of Simon LeVay which detail very careful experiments to demonstrate
that there is some link between sexual orientation and the size of a part
of the brain known as the INAH-3, located near the hypothalamus (the part
of the brain that controlls sexuality). Causality has not been
established, but as it stands the jury is still out on whether
homosexuality is “normal” for many persons or not.

: What I am also saying is that homosexuals have a responsiblity to the
: rest of the community which they don’t seem to care about, regardless of
: the harm they are causing.

Verbal masturbation. Please cut to the chase, will you?

: Can you prove to us that homosexuality is not
: harmful, to both the individual and society?

I have said this once and I shall say this again: the burden of proof
lies with you. After all, you are the one trying to demonstrate a causal
link between homosexuality and some detrimental effect on society, not I.

: I and millions of other
: Americans, given the opportunity, can prove that it is.

Then please do so. You are more than welcome to try, as others have
tried, so long as you recognize my right to attack your proof.

: Are you willing,
: and capable, of entering into a full, fair and open debate with those of
: us who disagree with you?

I have been debating openly, fairly and fully with you for two months,
Mr. Abrams. I’ve debated openly, fairly and fully with most of the
anti-gay-rights crowd for in excess of five years. I cannot say the same
for them, or for you, given the number of ad-hominems, empty statements,
illogical statements and stupid assumptions that have gone back and forth
thus far. Furthermore, you *know* I’ve been debating this point with you
openly and honestly, and that I have been more than fair to you in public.
Frankly I think your attempts to characterize my actions otherwise are at
least disingenuous and at worst dishonest.

: Regards,

: Kevin E. Abrams

Blessed Be
Mike Smith

DISCLAIMER: My opinions do not necesarily, or even remotely, reflect those
of Loyola University, Chicago

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 09:42:36 PST 1996
Article: 39378 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!
nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!coopnews.coop.net!news.den.mmc.com!news.orl.mmc.com!usenet
From: Kevin O’Connell <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.misc,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 3 Jan 1996 18:04:40 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Martin — Orlando InterNetNews site
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: snake229.orl.mmc.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/725)
To: [email protected]
X-URL: news:[email protected]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24597 alt.society.civil-liberty:39378
alt.politics.usa.misc:48735 alt.politics.homosexuality:80310 alt.christnet:41703

[email protected](david petry) wrote:
>In <4cbj[email protected]> [email protected] (James9) writes:
>
>>Kevin, I’ve watched your messages for a couple of months now, and don’t
>>seem to recall a time when you offered a reasonable explanation as to the
>>”harm” caused by homosexuality.
>
>
>Let me give it a shot.
>
>It’s pretty obvious in what ways homosexuality does great harm, ..

Not to me.
[snip]
>
>So if the homosexuals seduce those children into a lifestyle which does
>not promote life, the parents might reasonably feel that something very
>valuable has been destroyed.

But they don’t seduce anyone into any “lifestyle”.

>Those who promote homosexuality as being on a par with heterosexuality
>are in fact denying parents the right to concern themselves with this
>abstract notion of promoting life itself.

How?

>That is, the gay rights
>advocates are attempting to use the law to impose a particular belief
>system upon our society.

How?

>And in many people’s opinions, that belief
>system is built upon hatred – a rejection of the fundumental love of
>life which is essential to a happy and meaningful life.

They are wrong. All they do is love someone who is of the
same gender. Where did hate come in? Anger, hate, and fear are
associated with the treatment they receive for admitting to this love.

>The homosexuals, freed from the burden of caring for the next generation,
>do have more resources with which to “enjoy” life in a hedonistic sense.
>They can afford flashier clothes and fancier toys, and they have more time
>to play. They can afford to spend time fabricating seductive philosophies
>to rationalize and to glamorize their lifestyle. They can make their
>lifestyle seductive to impressionable and naive children.

No more so than all the DINKs out there. I am single with
no kids. I give 5 times my “fair share” to United Way. I volunteer
for Habitat for Humanity (they get some of my money too), I have
a god child I spend too much money on (to quote her parents), I have
a few other choice charities, I save for my retirement, I pay taxes,
I vote, I work…. How am I a threat to society? Oh, and I’m not
gay either.

>So it is neither suprising nor unreasonable that parents should support
>laws which tend to reduce the chances that their children will be seduced
>by the homosexual lifestyle. Parents do have a legitimate interest in
>protecting their children from the homosexual world view.

Well, depending upon what you mean by “protecting” I might
be tempted to say no. I’m an not sure what you mean either by
“being seduced by the homosexual lifestyle”. Fast cars, nice cloths,
fancy homes, are not the restricted lifestyle of homosexuals. And
if you mean you don’t want your kid to be able to understand himself
and his own sexuality if he finds out he is gay, I’m not sure I would
agree with that point of view. It makes for very unhealthy children.
Our society is full of enough unhealthy children, we don’t need any
new ones.

Oh, and by the way, if it weren’t for all the restrictions
against homosexuals adopting children, there might be alot more
homosexuals who had the same responsibilities and vested interests
about the next generation that you seem to think they don’t have.
Let them adopt children, let them marry, let your children play
with thier children, and you might find out you have far more in
common than you seem to think.

Kevin O’Connell

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 09:42:38 PST 1996
Article: 39387 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!
berlin-4.slip.uiuc.edu!user
From: [email protected] (Greg Ferrar)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 15:05:43 -0600
Organization: The University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana
Lines: 147
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: berlin-4.slip.uiuc.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24614 alt.society.civil-liberty:39387 alt.sex.pedophilia:13046
alt.sex.homosexual:9514 alt.sex.advocacy:671 alt.revisionism:18682 alt.religion.sexuality:7703
alt.politics.usa.misc:48746 alt.politics.sex:7790 alt.politics.homosexuality:80314 alt.christnet:41717

An interesting article, and well worded. I think, however, that there are
a lot of fallacies in your thinking, and your conclusion is way off.
Here’s a summary of the fallacies:

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected](david
petry) wrote:
> For many people, the whole purpose of life is to promote life. That is,
> many people want to create an environment in which their children can
> thrive and love life and love their parents for giving them life. And
> they want to see their children do the same in turn for their own children.
> They want to pass along this love for life. That’s what makes life
> meaningful for these people. It gives people a sense of purpose and
> direction, and it makes life’s hardships tolerable.

YOU SAY: The purpose of life is to create life.

FALLACY: Actually you said “promote life,” but your argument seems to be
only that creation of life by their children is critical to some people.
If you really meant “promote life,” then that’s a reasonable aim, but
homosexuality does not interfere in it, or in the “love of life” in any
way clear to me. So assuming you’re talking about creating life, I think
this is no longer the purpose of life. When there are 100 people on the
planet, maybe then that’s the whole purpose. But when the number of
people passes a few million, you have so many people that there’s no
reason for them all to create life. Creation of life becomes one of the
tasks of a society, but cannot and should not be the task of each
individual. If every individual must create life, we end up with
population growth, which is a very bad thing past a certain point. This
point was passed long ago (perhaps around 100 million), and any further
creation of life is intensely destructive to our species and our habitat.
We should be trying to prevent creation of life, not to promote it.
Further population growth is illogical.

(actually, I didn’t point out a fallacy here; I just spouted my own
opinion. However, I believe that statement “the purpose of life is to
create life” is fundamentally flawed. I will attempt from now on to stick
to true identification of fallacies.)

> So if the homosexuals seduce those children into a lifestyle which does
> not promote life, the parents might reasonably feel that something very
> valuable has been destroyed. Their children will have lost sight of that
> which is most important in life, and in a genetic sense, a murder has
> been committed. Life, in the abstract sense, has been destroyed.

YOU SAY: homosexuals seduce children into their lifestyle.

FALLACY: That’s unprovable. Though it’s possible to make a case that
homosexuality is a learned trait, it is equally possible to make a case
that it is genetic. Most homosexuals feel it is genetic, though they
probably wouldn’t know if it were learned. In any case, even if it is a
learned trait, homosexuals simply do not try to convert children. Having
felt the blade of prejudice first-hand, they generally feel no desire to
subject another person to their fate. Homosexuals do not make passes at
children, and generally no not even tell children of their sexual
orientation. Children may be affected by their genes, or they may be
affected by the culture at large, by they are not seduced by individuals.

YOU SAY: children who become homosexuals have abstractly died

FALLACY: You’re basing this on your fundamental point that the purpose of
life is to create life. I have shown that that is a very poor goal.

YOU IMPLY: homosexuals cannot have children

FALLACY: Homosexuals can mother and father children just like anyone
else. If they truly want children (if, for instance, their true goal in
life is to create life), they will become parents. Adoption is also an
alternative, though difficult due to societal wrongheadedness.

> Those who promote homosexuality as being on a par with heterosexuality
> are in fact denying parents the right to concern themselves with this
> abstract notion of promoting life itself. That is, the gay rights
> advocates are attempting to use the law to impose a particular belief
> system upon our society. And in many people’s opinions, that belief
> system is built upon hatred – a rejection of the fundumental love of
> life which is essential to a happy and meaningful life.

YOU SAY: Gay rights activists are attempting to use the law to impose a
particular believe system upon our society.

NO FALLACY THERE. But then, everyone does that all the time. You might
even say that’s the definition of “law.” This is not a bad thing.
Anti-gay groups also would like to use the law to impose a particular
belief system.

YOU IMPLY: If homosexuality were legal, parents would not be able to
influence their child’s morals with respect to homosexuality.

FALLACY: Parents will always be able to heavily influence their children’s
morals. Simple proximity is bound to create an influence. (Opinion:
furthermore, parents should not be allowed to control their children’s
access to information. The child should know all his or her options, and
then with the parent’s moral guidance can, can make informed decisions.)

YOU SAY: Homosexuals’ belief system is build on hatred of life.

FALLACY: Again you confuse creation of life with love of life. People can
have long, happy, fulfulling lives without having children. People can
positively effect society over a lifetime without having children.
Homosexuals love life as much as anyone.

> The homosexuals, freed from the burden of caring for the next generation,
> do have more resources with which to “enjoy” life in a hedonistic sense.
> They can afford flashier clothes and fancier toys, and they have more time
> to play. They can afford to spend time fabricating seductive philosophies
> to rationalize and to glamorize their lifestyle. They can make their
> lifestyle seductive to impressionable and naive children.

YOU IMPLY: Homosexuals do not care for the next generation; heterosexuals do.

FALLACY: Homosexuals can have children, and more importantly,
heterosexuals can have no children. It is absurd to equate the value of a
person with the number of lived (s)he creates. (Opinion: in fact, I would
say the more children a person has, the more destructive that person is to
society).

YOU SAY: Homosexuals hedonistically spend money.

FALLACY: Homosexuals are in all sorts of jobs, with all sorts of
salaries. Many of them are barely scraping by. You may be correct in the
broad sense; homosexuals probably have more spending money in general
(due, as you say, to lack of children), but that’s not a negative thing.
More spending money means more spending, and more spending stimulates the
economy.

YOU SAY: Homosexuals live in glamour.

FALLACY: They life the same as anyone else. You know a lot of
homosexuals, and you don’t even know they’re homosexual. You cannot in
general tell homosexuals by the glamour in their lifestyle, or by any
other outward signs.

YOU IMPLY: Not having children is evil and hateful

FALLACY: This is perhaps the worse of your errors. There are so many
people out there who have not had children. Some cannot. Some chose not
to, for reasons of religion or convenience. Some people don’t like
children. Only a small portion of those without children are
homosexuals. To condemn broadly all those who have no children is to
condemn more heterosexuals than homosexuals. (Opinion: furthermore, as I
suspect I’ve made clear, I roundly congratulate anyone who makes it
through life without getting seduced into the childbearing business. Any
such person is a boon to society, as their life actually reduces our
catastrophically high population).

-Greg Ferrar ([email protected])

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 09:42:39 PST 1996
Article: 39391 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!
usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Kevin, your spam is causing heart attacks by the dozen.
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 22:09:21 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c9uia$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-228.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26283 alt.society.conservatism:24623 alt.society.civil-liberty:39391
alt.sex.pedophilia:13051 alt.sex.homosexual:9515 alt.sex.advocacy:672 alt.revisionism:18690
alt.religion.sexuality:7704 alt.politics.usa.misc:48755 alt.politics.sex:7791
alt.politics.homosexuality:80317 alt.christnet:41724 alt.books.reviews:15593 alt.activism:18437

Kevin, you’re getting some of your Israeli friends and American
friends of Israel very upset.

They, and alt.sex.pedophilia have been the only real complainers
about this. I guess that’s where the high blood pressure is
concentrated.

You started this by adding irrelevant israeli newsgroups to your
list when replying to us. (I assume you’re not the one who spammed in
the pedophiles, are you?)

I started out by trimming out those groups when replying to you but
you kept adding them back in.

Not only that, but with time you added more israeli-orientated
groups to the list.

I don’t exist on this earth to trim your lists for you.

Please trim before you spam. If you don’t know how to trim your
newsgroups, ask your friendly mohel.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 09:42:40 PST 1996
Article: 39392 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!
usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,
alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.christnet
Subject: Pedophiles not interested in homosexuality either !!!!!!!!!!! Is Kevin writing a new book?????
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 22:20:58 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c4kte$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-228.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26284 alt.society.conservatism:24625 alt.society.civil-liberty:39392
alt.sex.homosexual:9516 alt.sex.advocacy:673 alt.revisionism:18691 alt.religion.sexuality:7705
alt.politics.sex:7792 alt.politics.homosexuality:80320 alt.homosexual:49371 alt.christnet:41726

[email protected] (Xanti) wrote to and alt.politics.homosexuality:

换But could you please stop spamming in a.s.pedophilia? At the moment,
换it is already crowded with the Raven shit, and these absurd
换(anti)homosexual debates are of no interest of us.

I don’t have the slightest idea how you got on the newsgroups list.

I’ve trimmed you out a few times.

You’ll be interested to know that pedophilia and the various israel
newsgroups have been most irritated by these cross posts, while the
Christians and the Limbaughites haven’t uttered a peep.

Does that tell us something?

At any rate, I don’t know how you got to be included.

It appears that the poster from Jerusalem has been responsible for
adding in all the israel groups. That’s where I first noticed them, at
any rate. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also put in the pedophiles. He
writes propaganda books, you know, and he’s probably watching you in
pedophilia so he can include your conversations in his next book.

If you look at the newsgroups, he also has book reviews included,
which I’ve just trimmed out of this response.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 10:09:30 PST 1996
Article: 48795 of alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!
news.kei.com!wang!usenet
From: [email protected] (Roger W. Lynn)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.broadcast,alt.religion,alt.recovery.addiction.sexual,
alt.radio.whadya-know,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.misc,
alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.media
Subject: Re: *** THE PINK SWASTIKA, Table of Contents ***
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 16:30:23 GMT
Organization: west.wang.com
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4cc6[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: elf.wang.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.christian:48795 alt.religion.broadcast:838
alt.recovery.addiction.sexual:1848 alt.radio.whadya-know:195 alt.president.clinton:53957
alt.politics.usa.republican:128955 alt.politics.usa.misc:48700 alt.politics.usa.constitution:45786
alt.politics.usa.congress:14771 alt.politics.sex:7781 alt.politics.media:5342

[email protected] (James9) wrote:

>> He quickly lowered his OCA profile after a TV cameraman at KOIN-TV asked
>> him if the rumors were true that he is gay.

>Interesting…it wouldn’t be the first time that someone covered their
>homosexual orientation with this kind of overt denial.

Sort of like McCarthy’s Right hand man during his ‘commie purges?’
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* Safety Chairperson – Colorado White Water Association *
* Roger W. Lynn – [email protected] *
* [email protected] *
* [email protected] *
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 10:09:50 PST 1996
Article: 48895 of alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!
homer.alpha.net!usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.atheism,alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.org.promisekeepers
Subject: Re: Politics being censored by the religious fundamentalists
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 00:45:42 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <4cakil[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-228.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.christian:48895 alt.christnet.bible:23268 alt.christnet:41751
alt.christnet.christianlife:4029 alt.homosexual:49377 alt.politics.homosexuality:80334 alt.atheism:6349
alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now:7708

[email protected] (Philip Hughes) wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:

换The “war” Christians are fighting is not of this world !

换We are not fighting to impose our religion on anyone, we are fighting
换to keep a certain religion, that being the lack of Christianity, on
换us and our children.

That’s a lie. You’re fighting to impose your religion on the rest of
the people of this country.

I suggest you read 1 Corinthians and live up to it, especially verses
12 1nd 13.

Obey the command of Paul.

It is not your business to judge others outside your church.

换By the way Jesus DOES love you !!

Right wing christians don’t.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 10:09:54 PST 1996
Article: 48920 of alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!
homer.alpha.net!usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.org.promisekeepers
Subject: Re: Good news to the question of Homosexuality
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 01:40:41 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<4c3v6b$r[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.42.202
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.christian:48920 alt.christnet.bible:23276 alt.christnet:41763
alt.christnet.christianlife:4031 alt.homosexual:49380 alt.politics.homosexuality:80338
alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now:7709

[email protected] (Barry Hofstetter) wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:

换That polygamy occurred among the patriarchs and certain royal families
换of Judah and Israel does not mean that the entire biblical tradition
换treats polygamy positively. Rather the opposite.

换> I know you don’t accept David and Jonathan, but for the benefit of

换culture. Therefore, there is no need to understand the David and
换Jonathan accounts of a homosexual relationship, and in fact no
换interpreter until modern times has so understood it.

There’s no need to read homosexuality into the David and Johnathan
account, to be sure. But I note that if the “dogs” passage mentioned
here from Kings does indeed refer to male temple prostitutes, then it
would seem the ancient Jews were as heavily involved in at least some
aspects of homosexual relations as their heathen neighbors.

I wouldn’t doubt that Solomon had his little boys as well as his
little girls, and David likewise. They being heterosexual would have
sought immature or otherwise effeminate partners.

I think the male temple prostitutes catered to the heterosexual
population who wanted variety, or whatever, or who resorted to
effeminate males because of a shortage of females.

I don’t know the ages of David and Johathan, but if they did have a
sexual relationship, I wouldn’t describe it as homosexual unless they
were both quite mature and masculine.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 10:10:31 PST 1996
Article: 49125 of alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!
usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.org.promisekeepers
Subject: Should we stop persecuting homosexuals?
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 15:56:49 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <WR8wmCBg3He70[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-248.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.christian:49125 alt.christnet.bible:23373 alt.christnet:41918
alt.christnet.christianlife:4059 alt.homosexual:49415 alt.politics.homosexuality:80405
alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now:7743

[email protected] (Barry Hofstetter) wrote to and
alt.politics.homosexuality:

换 1) As I have argued elsewhere (without citing any support, since
换 I don’t have any, but I invite anyone to give
换 counter-evidence), rape seems to run along the lines of sexual
换 preference. This would suggest that the men of the town in
换 Genesis were indeed homosexuals when they were not intent on
换 violating the hospitality code by abusing strangers.

So you think there were no women or children in Sodom except for Lot’s
family? If you read the story, it says every man, from the oldest to
the youngest, participated. I can’t quite comprehend the intent of
your sentence. Germans I know often use “when” when they speak and
are translating “wenn = if”. Did you intend “if they were not intent
on violating the hospitality”?

And if you read the story of Gibeah, you’ll find it says that your
“homosexuals” wanted to “know” the Levite but settled for his
concubine enstead.
It would seem that the ancient Jews and Sodomites were, if not
heterosexual, bisexual in their interests.

换 2) Please cite the references from 1 and 2nd Kings. I have most
换 often seen the discussion centering on the terminology in
换 Leviticus. A quick check of Boswell’s *Christianity, Social
换 Tolerance, and Homosexuality* reveals that he doesn’t even
换 have a discussion on Kings worthy of citation in the indices.

I’ve given the chapters and verses here before, but not the Hebrew or
Greek.

换 3) Pay attention to Paul’s flow of discourse leading up to Rom
换 1:25-26. He is listing sins which result from the denial of
换 of the true God (Rom 1:18), and which are symptomatic not only
换 of that denial but of God’s judgment on those who deny.
换 Idolatry is a primary example, quite relevant in the ancient

Apparently you consider philosophy one of your “sins”? Read Romans
1:21 “they stultified themselves through speculating to no purpose…”

“Stultifying themselves” is in the category of “mutual degradation of
their bodies”.

换 world, but sins of a sexual and social nature are also listed
换 by Paul.

Where is “stultifying” defined as a sin in the bible?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Pink Swastika may be ordered from

1 – 800 – 828 – 2290

Interviews & Speaking Engagements

1 – 503 – 463 – 8095

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 10:28:32 PST 1996
Article: 18799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!
usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.journalism.gay-press,alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: ** SS – GAY NAZI History (#2) 175 – SS **
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 17:49:23 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4cf3g5$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-237.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:18799 alt.politics.homosexuality:80413 alt.homosexual:49420

RRu[email protected] (Rhonda Rubin) wrote to and alt.journalism.gay-press:

换In article <[email protected]>,
换 [email protected] wrote:
换> $$$$$$ “GAYS Bankrolled HITLER” $$$$$$
换>
换> “At age 30 many regarded the Furhrer as an attractive sex
换> symbol. His masculine good looks were also to some extent
换> helpful in gaining Big-Money support from Ernst Roehm’s
换> circle of wealthy gay friends.” [Frank Rector, “The Nazi
换> Extermination Of Homosexuals, Stein & Day 1981, P.51]

I should make a modification of what I said earlier about not finding
the quotation on page 51 of the book. It’s true that it isn’t there.
I discover this under a picture of Hitler, however:

“Adolf Hitler at about age 30 when he embarked on what he declared
was his ‘historic mission of destiny.’ He was a handsome man at the
time. In fact, he was frequently called _Der Schoene Adolf_ (the
handsome Adolf), a descriptive and affectionate term used by girls and
women. Many regarded the _Fuehrer_ as an attractive sex symbol. His
masculine good looks were also to some extent helpful in gaining
big-money support from Ernest Roehm’s circle of wealthy gay friends.
(_National Archives Photo_)”

You will note that the quote has been deceptively modified without
giving any indication of editing in the message post you quoted.

For example, I examined what he says in Kristallnacht & Herschel
Grynszpan.

To start, Rector says “at least 1,000 Jews were killed.”
The Columbia Encyclopedia says the figure was 91.

Rector says Grynszpan’s alleged homosexual affair with vom Rath was
“probably true” but he ignores the fact that when Grynszpan went to
the embassy he asked for the ambassador, not for vom Rath, and he saw
vom Rath only because the under-official to whom he was directed was
late and not yet at work.

Rector mentions Samuel Igra and his book _Germany’s National Vice_,
which is highly recommended by Kevin Abrams a major source of material
used in _The Pink Swastika_. Igra asserts that there were documents
proving Hitler had been a male prostitute in Vienna and in Munich.
Rector says “there surely can be no question that the documents
concerning Hitler’s homosexual hustling were false — if indeed, such
documents ever really existed.”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Romans referred to Jesus using “ECCE HOMO”, not “ECCE HETERO”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 13:44:17 PST 1996
Article: 18811 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!
news.telebyte.net!multiverse!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!infinet!cmh-p087.infinet.com!user
From: [email protected] (Sara aka Perrrfect)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 15:17:13 -0500
Organization: Cat’s Lair
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmh-p075.infinet.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24846 alt.society.civil-liberty:39479 alt.sex.pedophilia:13080
alt.sex.homosexual:9536 alt.sex.advocacy:692 alt.revisionism:18811 alt.religion.sexuality:7731
alt.politics.usa.misc:48962 alt.politics.sex:7822 alt.politics.homosexuality:80419 alt.christnet:41947

Hmmm… maybe a reasonable post. Let’s see…

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected](david
petry) wrote:

> It’s pretty obvious in what ways homosexuality does great harm, but in
> political battles, the obvious is often ignored.
>
Not obvious to *me*, but what the heck. I’ll read more and see if this
starts to make sense.

> For many people, the whole purpose of life is to promote life. That is,
> many people want to create an environment in which their children can
> thrive and love life and love their parents for giving them life. And
> they want to see their children do the same in turn for their own children.
> They want to pass along this love for life. That’s what makes life
> meaningful for these people. It gives people a sense of purpose and
> direction, and it makes life’s hardships tolerable.

Well, that’s not an unreasonable thought. Nor does it discount the many
people homo- and heterosexual, who ADOPT children.
>
> So if the homosexuals seduce those children into a lifestyle which does
> not promote life,

BZZZZZT!

Thanks for playing.

Anyone who uses the words “homosexuals” and “seduce children” in
generalities like this isn’t worth a second thought.

Bye.

—
“Who CARES if Hitler killed six million jews, or sixty million? He
identified the problem facing post-WWI Germany, and took decisive action to protect HIS people.”
The Wit and Wisdom [sic] of Les Griswold

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 17:38:25 PST 1996
Article: 18831 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!
holonet!colossus.holonet.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!liv!strath-cs!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!
math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!lucky133.nuts.nwu.edu!user
From: [email protected] (Kraig Blackwelder)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Enough of Pink Talk and Apulecius
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 17:37:20 -0600
Organization: Pandemonium Cathedral
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c9uia$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lucky133.nuts.nwu.edu
X-Newsreader: Value-Added NewsWatcher 2.0b24.0+
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26328 alt.society.conservatism:24890 alt.society.civil-liberty:39489
alt.sex.pedophilia:13088 alt.sex.homosexual:9538 alt.sex.advocacy:694 alt.revisionism:18831
alt.religion.sexuality:7735 alt.politics.usa.misc:48996 alt.politics.sex:7827 alt.politics.homosexuality:80433
alt.christnet:41981 alt.books.reviews:15610 alt.activism:18775

In article <4c[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

> All of these ads for the Pink Swastika Book are not appropriate in any
> news group. I am tired of all the “hate mail” spamming 17 newsgroups.
>
> ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! (Yes I’m shouting)
> Here is the guys internet information. I am making a complaint and
> mailing copies of posts to the FBI because hate crimes can be
> considered a federal offense.

Uh, I hate to burst your bubble, but Apuleus wasn’t the one advertising
the trashy book, it was Kevin Abrams. If you’re going to have an attack,
you should post HIS internet provider and have people give HIM a bad day
because he’s the one who wrote the stupid book, he’s the one who keeps
spamming with the name of the book and the order number, and, most
importantly, he’s the one who puts the eighteen or so newsgroups into the
“send to” row.

If you’re going to get testy, at least penalize the right guy.

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 21:59:31 PST 1996
Article: 18859 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!
nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!crl5.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (William December Starr)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 4 Jan 1996 07:17:23 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl5.crl.com
In-reply-to: [email protected](david petry)
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24938 alt.society.civil-liberty:39518 alt.sex.pedophilia:13094
alt.sex.homosexual:9544 alt.sex.advocacy:700 alt.revisionism:18859 alt.religion.sexuality:7743
alt.politics.usa.misc:49040 alt.politics.sex:7835 alt.politics.homosexuality:80457 alt.christnet:42031

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected](david petry) said:

> It’s pretty obvious in what ways homosexuality does great harm,
> but in political battles, the obvious is often ignored.

…and then proceeded to “prove” his point by equating “upsets
some intolerant people” with “does great harm.” Oh yeah, _real_
persuasive, David.

— William December Starr <[email protected]>

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 02:14:16 PST 1996
Article: 18878 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!
news.Stanford.EDU!sdd.hp.com!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!
news.netvision.net.il!usenet
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,shamash.gayjews,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,
israel.gayjews,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 02:48:19 PDT
Organization: NetVision LTD.
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2ap4.netvision.net.il
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26340 alt.society.conservatism:24982 alt.society.civil-liberty:39525
alt.sex.pedophilia:13098 alt.sex.homosexual:9549 alt.sex.advocacy:704 alt.revisionism:18878
alt.religion.sexuality:7748 alt.politics.usa.misc:49077 alt.politics.sex:7840 alt.politics.homosexuality:80472
alt.homosexual:49448 alt.books.reviews:15616 alt.activism:18867

Magenta wrote,

> As a jew, I am a human despite what Nazis say.
> As a gay, I am a human despite what homophobes like you say.
> That is ALL of the justification I need to lead my life the way god
> created me, and to love whomever I will.

This is an example of how corrupt in your thinking you’ve become.
Being Jewish, which means living by the Jewish ethic, includes the
complete rejection of homosexuality as do the seven Noahide laws which
all humanity are responsible to uphold and were in existance long before
the Jewish people. There is a `human’ sexual constitution which promotes
the dignity of all mankind whether you are willing to accept this or not.
I can appreciate however, how very difficult it must be for you to be
both a `Jew’ and a `homosexual’ at the same time. This must be very
debilitating and internally divisive. Have you ever seen the film they
made about the life of Roy Cohn? “Citizen Cohn,” in spite of the fact
Cohn was `born’ a Jew, is a classic depiction of a Nazi mentality. You
see, the homofascist mentality is not restricted to any particular group
or people, but can be found amongst all races, religions and groups.

> >What I am also saying is that homosexuals have a responsiblity to the
> >rest of the community which they don’t seem to care about, regardless of
> >the harm they are causing. Can you prove to us that homosexuality is not
> >harmful, to both the individual and society? I and millions of other
> >Americans, given the opportunity, can prove that it is.

> Do so. You and your hypothetical millions have no proof beside your
> twisted contorted bigoted propaganda which has nothing whatsoever to
> do with real homosexual people, Just like the Nazi propaganda that
> claimed that jews caused “harm” to the German economy. You are a Nazi
> Kevin, and a Nazi of the worst kind because as a Jew you should know
> better than to spout the crap you post.

Who are the `real’ homosexual `people’ in your view?
How about those described below by Samuel Igra.

“UNITED by A Common VICE”

“What marks out Hitler’s war from all previous
warfare among civilized people is the orgy of moral
destruction which was destined from the start, to
end with the defeat of the destroyer. As the
(National Socialist) movement they were aided and
abetted and supported financially as well as
politically by the industrialist capitalists of the
Rhineland; but the initiative did not come from the
latter it came from Hitler as the `condottiere’ of a
band of evil men who were united together by a common
vice.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National Vice,”
Quality Press Ltd, London, 1945:27]

Compliments of, Kevin E. Abrams, co-author of, THE
PINK SWASTIKA: Homosexuality In The Nazi Party 1995.

“A Primary or Seminal Evil”

“For the scourge of German militarism is only the
secondary effect of a primary evil. And evil lies in
the region of personal morality, the region from which
all political evil springs. The poison in Germany has
penetrated from above downwards, from the leaders
to the followers. This was true of Germany in the middle
ages, when the Prussian State was first founded by the
military pseudo-religious order of the Teutonic Knights,
among whom the vice of homosexualism was rampant. The
poison grew more virulent under Frederick the Great,
who was himself a moral pervert. It broke out as a mass
malady under the last Kaiser, whose court was the
rendezvous of a camarilla that had made a cult of
unnatural vices.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National
Vice, Quality Press Ltd, London, 1945:7-8]

Compliments of, Kevin E. Abrams, co-author of, THE PINK
SWASTIKA: Homosexuality In The Nazi Party 1995.

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 07:18:43 PST 1996
Article: 18886 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!
news.eecs.umich.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!news1.best.com!news.texas.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!
colossus.holonet.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!warwick!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!
nntp.crl.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!pooh.freenet.mb.ca!winnie.freenet.mb.ca!pir565
From: Keith Turner <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:31:00 -0600
Organization: Blue Sky FreeNet of Manitoba Inc.
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <P[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c4of[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: winnie.freenet.mb.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26344 alt.society.conservatism:25008 alt.society.civil-liberty:39537
alt.sex.pedophilia:13102 alt.sex.homosexual:9553 alt.sex.advocacy:708 alt.revisionism:18886
alt.religion.sexuality:7754 alt.politics.usa.misc:49100 alt.politics.sex:7845 alt.politics.homosexuality:80481
alt.christnet:42081 alt.books.reviews:15620 alt.activism:18896

If you are posting to alt.books reviews, shouldnt there at least be a
book involved?

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 07:18:45 PST 1996
Article: 18895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!
howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!siemens!princeton!
cnn.Princeton.EDU!tucson.princeton.edu!cmshaw
From: [email protected] (Caitlin M. Shaw)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,shamash.gayjews,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,
israel.gayjews,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,
alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality
Date: 5 Jan 1996 05:50:28 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4caev[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tucson.princeton.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26345 alt.society.conservatism:25024 alt.society.civil-liberty:39540
alt.sex.homosexual:9555 alt.sex.advocacy:710 alt.revisionism:18895 alt.religion.sexuality:7758
alt.politics.usa.misc:49115 alt.politics.sex:7848 alt.politics.homosexuality:80484 alt.homosexual:49453
alt.activism:18911

Note: followups set to the newsgroup I’m reading from only, and wildly
inappropriate groups deleted altogether.

Further note: I’ve killfiled “kevin_e” and will no longer see any
replies to this thread unless they also include my name (“cmshaw”).

In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] writes:

>Have you ever seen the film they
>made about the life of Roy Cohn? “Citizen Cohn,” in spite of the fact
>Cohn was `born’ a Jew, is a classic depiction of a Nazi mentality. You
>see, the homofascist mentality is not restricted to any particular group
>or people, but can be found amongst all races, religions and groups.

“ROY: Like all labels they tell you one thing and one thing only:
where does an individual so identified fit in the food chain, in the
pecking order? Not ideology, or sexual taste, but something much
simpler: clout. Not who I fuck or who fucks me, but who will pick up
the phone when I call, who owes me favors. This is what a label refers
to. Now to someone who does not understand this, homosexual is what I
am because I have sex with men. But really this is wrong. Homosexuals
are not men who sleep with other men. Homosexuals are men who in
fifteen years of trying cannot get a pissant antidiscrimination bill
through City Council. Homosexuals are men who know nobody and who
nobody knows. Who have zero clout. Does this sound like me, Henry?
HENRY: No.
ROY: No.”

–Tony Kushner, _Millenium Approaches_

This is the part of _Angels in America_ that hit me in the gut, the only
scene that made me cry when I first read it. Do you understand why it’s
so powerful?

Roy Cohn is exactly what gay activists are working so hard to prevent:
a powerful man with no “family”, no community, no culture. We couldn’t
help him, and he went wrong on his own. Can’t you see that we’re trying
to raise *this* generation better so that there won’t be any Roys, any
Ernsts, any J. Edgers…? It hurts us far more than you seem to realize
when one of our own goes bad and is “lost”.

Caitlin
—
Caitlin MacKay Shaw /\ /\ /\ <http://www.princeton.edu/~cmshaw>
<[email protected]> \/ \/ “There is no one true way.” M. Lackey
Princeton University Mathematics Department and Women’s Studies Program

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 07:18:47 PST 1996
Article: 18905 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!
news00.sunet.se!sunic!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [email protected] (George M. Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 13:46:43 GMT
Organization: Free Radical Enterprises
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nyc6-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jan 05 5:42:55 AM PST 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25031 alt.society.civil-liberty:39545 alt.sex.pedophilia:13117
alt.sex.homosexual:9557 alt.sex.advocacy:712 alt.revisionism:18905 alt.religion.sexuality:7761
alt.politics.usa.misc:49123 alt.politics.sex:7851 alt.politics.homosexuality:80489 alt.christnet:42116

[email protected](david petry) wrote:

>In <4cbj[email protected]> [email protected] (James9) writes:

>>Kevin, I’ve watched your messages for a couple of months now, and don’t
>>seem to recall a time when you offered a reasonable explanation as to the
>>”harm” caused by homosexuality.

>Let me give it a shot.

It is curious to me how so many fundamentalist are allied with the
right wing. And that right wing hardly espouses an embracing of life!
Just the opposite. Reducing any restrictions on industry’s ability to
pollute, abject greed, destruction of education, widening the gap
between wealthy and poor, condemning those who are different. Such a
peculiar way to embrace life! Then of course, there is this idea that
continued proliferation despite overpopulation is somehow a good idea!
Such an absurdity.

And yet I have known many lesbians and gays who either have children
of their own or adopt. They are terrific parents!

Nobody approached me as a youth and said: golly, you should be queer.
This was a set of feelings that I had. They are quite natural to me.

I reject your bigoted notions as peculiar, arcane and potentially
laying the groundwork for oppression and further violence. Indirectly
in the form of suicide by this message–which is a lie–that being gay
is wrong. Directly in the increase in violent, anti-gay crimes
fostered by messages provided by narrow-minded bigots like yourself.

George

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 07:18:47 PST 1996
Article: 18906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!
news00.sunet.se!sunic!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [email protected] (George M. Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 13:46:45 GMT
Organization: Free Radical Enterprises
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nyc6-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jan 05 5:42:57 AM PST 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25032 alt.society.civil-liberty:39546 alt.sex.pedophilia:13118
alt.sex.homosexual:9558 alt.sex.advocacy:713 alt.revisionism:18906 alt.religion.sexuality:7762
alt.politics.usa.misc:49124 alt.politics.sex:7852 alt.politics.homosexuality:80490 alt.christnet:42117

[email protected] (Warren Ockrassa) wrote:

>I agree wholeheartedly — if one has children, hopefully one would be
>moved to cherish, protect and provide for them to the best of one’s ability.

And heteros have such a terrific track record at this. How many
hundreds of thousands of babies are abandoned each year?

>4. Murder has been committed? You are seriously equating homosexuality
>with murder? Oh, please, get real — Making love is not the same as
>putting a bullet through a head.

By the logic that says a “murder” was committed, we should incarcerate
women every month at menstruation. And goddess forbid what we should
do to men if they masturbate or have a wet dream!! Millions of sperms
that could have been life have died!! Men are MONSTROUS MURDERERS!!

As to the rest of your post: bravo!

These people do not have anything remotely like a clue.

George

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 14:26:39 PST 1996
Article: 18912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!news.uh.edu!
opus
From: [email protected] (Rhonda Rubin)
Newsgroups: shamash.gayjews,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: 5 Jan 1996 15:20:02 GMT
Organization: ACME Looniversity
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4caev[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: writer.itis.uh.edu
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:18912 alt.politics.homosexuality:80498 alt.homosexual:49460

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote, among other things:

First off, you’ve presented your opinion: Roy Cohn, a born Jew, is a
classic depection of a Nazi mentality. Yet you have shown no evidence of
this assertation. First, present samples of his behavior. Next, present a
definition of Nazi mentality. If this definition is your own, it
immediately becomes suspect, as it has no support. Next, show evidence that
the behavior is a proven Nazi mentality.

Finally, I have to laugh at you here. You’re basing your knowledge of Roy
Cohn on how James Woods depicted him in a *film*? Good golly…great
research, Kevin.

>> Do so. You and your hypothetical millions have no proof beside your
>> twisted contorted bigoted propaganda which has nothing whatsoever to
>> do with real homosexual people, Just like the Nazi propaganda that
>> claimed that jews caused “harm” to the German economy. You are a Nazi
>> Kevin, and a Nazi of the worst kind because as a Jew you should know
>> better than to spout the crap you post.

> Who are the `real’ homosexual `people’ in your view?
> How about those described below by Samuel Igra.
>
>
> “UNITED by A Common VICE”
>
>
> “What marks out Hitler’s war from all previous
> warfare among civilized people is the orgy of moral
> destruction which was destined from the start, to
> end with the defeat of the destroyer. As the
> (National Socialist) movement they were aided and
> abetted and supported financially as well as
> politically by the industrialist capitalists of the
> Rhineland; but the initiative did not come from the
> latter it came from Hitler as the `condottiere’ of a
> band of evil men who were united together by a common
> vice.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National Vice,”
> Quality Press Ltd, London, 1945:27]

What did this prove Kevin? This passage does not prove your allegation one
iota.

> “A Primary or Seminal Evil”
>
> “For the scourge of German militarism is only the
> secondary effect of a primary evil. And evil lies in
> the region of personal morality, the region from which
> all political evil springs. The poison in Germany has
> penetrated from above downwards, from the leaders
> to the followers. This was true of Germany in the middle
> ages, when the Prussian State was first founded by the
> military pseudo-religious order of the Teutonic Knights,
> among whom the vice of homosexualism was rampant. The
> poison grew more virulent under Frederick the Great,
> who was himself a moral pervert. It broke out as a mass
> malady under the last Kaiser, whose court was the
> rendezvous of a camarilla that had made a cult of
> unnatural vices.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National

This passage does not prove your allegation either. This is someone’s
opinion, and you happen to agree with it. Proof, my dear Kevin, lies with
facts and logic. While your statements contain *some* facts, your logic is
faulty. Thus, your conclusions are suspect. Again, I ask for proof. Not
your opinion, but real proof.

Rhonda

—
“The dew fell with a particularly sickening thud this morning.”

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 18:34:47 PST 1996
Article: 18972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!
holonet!colossus.holonet.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!
newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!
bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!casaba.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!scws45!staloff
From: [email protected] (Mark Staloff)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,shamash.gayjews,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,
israel.gayjews,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Followup-To: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,shamash.gayjews,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,
israel.gayjews,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Date: 5 Jan 1996 21:42:36 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4caev[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scws45.harvard.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26362 alt.society.conservatism:25139 alt.society.civil-liberty:39593
alt.sex.pedophilia:13127 alt.sex.homosexual:9568 alt.sex.advocacy:723 alt.revisionism:18972
alt.religion.sexuality:7779 alt.politics.usa.misc:49246 alt.politics.sex:7867 alt.politics.homosexuality:80532
alt.homosexual:49470 alt.books.reviews:15626 alt.activism:19063

[email protected] wrote:

: Being Jewish, which means living by the Jewish ethic, includes the
: complete rejection of homosexuality as do the seven Noahide laws which
: all humanity are responsible to uphold and were in existance long before
: the Jewish people.

This is but one interpretation of Judaism. By your rules only a very,
very small percentage of American Jews are actually Jewish, which leaves
the others in some nether realm of no identity. We aren’t going to
resolve the orthodox/conservative/reform split here, so I believe this
line is somewhat irrelevant.

: There is a `human’ sexual constitution which promotes
: the dignity of all mankind whether you are willing to accept this or not.

So says Kant. I don’t happen to agree with his reasoning. He certainly
doesn’t carry any divine sanction; you answer this yourself when you say
I don’t have to accept it. I don’t. Pfft.

: I can appreciate however, how very difficult it must be for you to be
: both a `Jew’ and a `homosexual’ at the same time. This must be very
: debilitating and internally divisive.

Hrm. I’m Jewish and bisexual, and I believe in G-d. I don’t accept the
Bible as a unilateral authority, however. And I’m getting by just fine,
thank you very much. I fail to see how a line in a book calling
homosexuality an abomination would lead me to collapse. I’m not a
computer, after all; I don’t value all pieces of information equally and
I’m capable of judging input and fitting it accordingly.

: Have you ever seen the film they
: made about the life of Roy Cohn? “Citizen Cohn,” in spite of the fact
: Cohn was `born’ a Jew, is a classic depiction of a Nazi mentality. You
: see, the homofascist mentality is not restricted to any particular group
: or people, but can be found amongst all races, religions and groups.

Er… thank you, Herr Logical Fallacy. I don’t quite understand this
“homofascist mentality”, or how you leap from race to group to whatever,
or how on Earth (big point here) you can extrapolate from one individual
to indict a whole subset of the human race.

: Who are the `real’ homosexual `people’ in your view?
: How about those described below by Samuel Igra.

Ok. Let’s check this out.

: “UNITED by A Common VICE”

: “What marks out Hitler’s war from all previous
: warfare among civilized people is the orgy of moral
: destruction which was destined from the start, to
: end with the defeat of the destroyer. As the
: (National Socialist) movement they were aided and
: abetted and supported financially as well as
: politically by the industrialist capitalists of the
: Rhineland; but the initiative did not come from the
: latter it came from Hitler as the `condottiere’ of a
: band of evil men who were united together by a common
: vice.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National Vice,”
: Quality Press Ltd, London, 1945:27]

Yes. Some Nazis were homosexuals. Homosexuals are no more possessing of
inherent virtue than heterosexuals. I’ll concede that with no problem.
Your point is?

: “For the scourge of German militarism is only the
: secondary effect of a primary evil. And evil lies in
: the region of personal morality, the region from which
: all political evil springs. The poison in Germany has
: penetrated from above downwards, from the leaders
: to the followers. This was true of Germany in the middle
: ages, when the Prussian State was first founded by the
: military pseudo-religious order of the Teutonic Knights,
: among whom the vice of homosexualism was rampant. The
: poison grew more virulent under Frederick the Great,
: who was himself a moral pervert. It broke out as a mass
: malady under the last Kaiser, whose court was the
: rendezvous of a camarilla that had made a cult of
: unnatural vices.” [Samuel Igra, “Germany’s National
: Vice, Quality Press Ltd, London, 1945:7-8]

This is a very interesting and very silly theory. He doesn’t a) prove
that all these men are homosexuals – about the Knights Templar, for
example, they were shut down by the King of France on trumped up charges
of homoesexuality (along with some other stuff, such as desecration of
the crucifix) because he knew that would work. Plus, there’s no
connection of homosexuality and militarism demonstrated here. The
majority of Nazis were straight. There must be a strain in
hterosexuality that leads people to militarism. There you go.

Mark

From [email protected] Fri Jan 5 20:32:14 PST 1996
Article: 49506 of alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!
imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!djk
From: [email protected] (Daniel J. Karnes)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.broadcast,alt.religion,alt.recovery.addiction.sexual
Subject: Re: *** THE PINK SWASTIKA, Table of Contents ***
Date: 3 Jan 1996 09:40:02 -0700
Organization: TASP Development Group
Lines: 21
Sender: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
X-Posted-By: [email protected]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.christian:49506 alt.religion.broadcast:841
alt.recovery.addiction.sexual:1853

In article <[email protected]>,
Str Ranger <[email protected]> wrote:

>Just to note to show the response I sent to the above mentioned posting:
>
>A Point to consider:
>
>Hate and Intolerance are NOT family values.
>
>Tom L.

But recogntion of perversion and depravity and appropriate response to
same are not “hate” and “intolerance”.

-djk

—
* * *
**** * * * Daniel J. Karnes / [email protected] / [email protected]
* * * * * * W A 6 N D T – The one and only and original!!
**** **** * * “One of the few remaining true white magic hackers”

From [email protected] Sat Jan 6 11:31:17 PST 1996
Article: 19003 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!
sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!
news.cc.utah.edu!cwis.isu.edu!news.ida.net!pmif120.ida.net.203.228.204.in-addr.arpa!user
From: [email protected] (John W. Denning)
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Message-ID: <denni[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 17:17:04 -0600
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.3
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25192 alt.society.civil-liberty:39606 alt.sex.pedophilia:13132
alt.sex.homosexual:9570 alt.sex.advocacy:725 alt.revisionism:19003 alt.religion.sexuality:7782
alt.politics.usa.misc:49300 alt.politics.sex:7870 alt.politics.homosexuality:80543 alt.christnet:42249

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected](david
> petry) wrote:

> So if the homosexuals seduce those children into a lifestyle which does
> not promote life,

Sorry to miss the point, but where the heck does homosexuality and
seduceing children mean the same thing. From what I’ve heard there have
been a few hetro’s seduce children in history. I’d feel real safe saying
there have been a lot more hetros seduce children than homosexuals.

To be homosexual means one has the ability to love someone of the same
sex. That’s it, not seduce children, or have sex on the street, or rape
everyone of the same sex. Heck I’d even bet there are homosexuals who
don’t believe in free open sex, they feel it’s a private thing.

—
-JD- )
John W. Denning ( [email protected]
Idaho Falls, ID ) (208)522-4413

From [email protected] Sat Jan 6 22:10:34 PST 1996
Article: 19044 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!
library.erc.clarkson.edu!multiverse!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!hyperion.wright.edu!news.wright.edu!usenet
From: Scott <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 6 Jan 1996 20:39:25 GMT
Organization: Wright State University
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<4cbnbm$pmg@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: frefd.library.wright.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [email protected]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25257 alt.society.civil-liberty:39648 alt.sex.pedophilia:13138
alt.sex.homosexual:9578 alt.sex.advocacy:732 alt.revisionism:19044 alt.religion.sexuality:7793
alt.politics.usa.misc:49350 alt.politics.sex:7880 alt.politics.homosexuality:80567

In response to david petry ([email protected]),
[email protected] (Michael Smith) wrote:

>I’ve known people who were open homosexuals since I was six. Nobody
>*recruited* me, pal. But since you seem to have a conspiracy in mind,
>let’s see you back it up. Where are your statistics proving that
>homosexuals recruit young children? Let’s see figures from the FBI or
>CDC or Kinsey Institute. The burden of proof that a conspiracy exists
>rests with you.

Tsk, Mike, are you new at this? Don’t you know that the first rule is
that the conspiracy is so vast and powerful that it covers its own
tracks, and therefore evidence is unavailable? The conspirators are
everywhere, Mike, everywhere, I tell you!! THAT’s why you CAN’T SEE
THEM!!! THE SYSTEM IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE WITH HOMO JEW NAZIS FROM THE
HOLLOW EARTH AND THEY CONTROL THE MEDIA FOR THEIR ALIEN MASTERS AND THEY
KILLED PRESIDENT KENNEDY TO KEEP CASTRO FROM BRINGING BACK THE GOLD
STANDARD AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

..ahem, sorry. So you see, it’s a “strange loop”: The assertion, by its
very nature, *has* to be made a priori.

Unfortunately, you will never, ever get through to these people, because
they are violent psychotics, as illustrated by their answer to this very
simple question: Which causes more harm, bullets or blowjobs? This is
the question that separates us from the guys in the tinfoil hats, and I
pray that the latter never get rowdy enough that we’ll actually have to
shoot it out with them to keep them from enslaving or killing us, which
they believe is their Constitutional and God-given duty. Too bad history
doesn’t give me much cause for optimism.

–Scott Burright

From [email protected] Sat Jan 6 23:53:04 PST 1996
Article: 39648 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!library.erc.
clarkson.edu!multiverse!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!hyperion.wright.edu!news.wright.edu!usenet
From: Scott <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex
,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 6 Jan 1996 20:39:25 GMT
Organization: Wright State University
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<4cbnbm$pmg@cloner2.ix.netcom.com> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: frefd.library.wright.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [email protected]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25257 alt.society.civil-liberty:39648 alt.sex.pedophilia:13138
alt.sex.homosexual:9578 alt.sex.advocacy:732 alt.revisionism:19044 alt.religion.sexuality:7793
alt.politics.usa.misc:49350 alt.politics.sex:7880 alt.politics.homosexuality:80567

In response to david petry ([email protected]),
[email protected] (Michael Smith) wrote:

..ahem, sorry. So you see, it’s a “strange loop”: The assertion, by its
very nature, *has* to be made a priori.

–Scott Burright

From [email protected] Sun Jan 7 10:02:57 PST 1996
Article: 19094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!
news.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!seds!macadamia
From: [email protected] (Warren Ockrassa)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Followup-To: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Date: 6 Jan 1996 18:43:36 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona SEDS
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: seds.lpl.arizona.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25315 alt.society.civil-liberty:39669 alt.sex.pedophilia:13147
alt.sex.homosexual:9590 alt.sex.advocacy:741 alt.revisionism:19094 alt.religion.sexuality:7804
alt.politics.usa.misc:49398 alt.politics.sex:7891 alt.politics.homosexuality:80606 alt.christnet:42380

George M. Carter ([email protected]) wrote:
: [email protected] (Warren Ockrassa) wrote:

: >I agree wholeheartedly — if one has children, hopefully one would be
: >moved to cherish, protect and provide for them to the best of one’s ability.

: And heteros have such a terrific track record at this. How many
: hundreds of thousands of babies are abandoned each year?

A good point. Let’s not forget ole Susan Smith, either — she was so
life-affirming she drowned her two young sons. Now maybe the possibility
of those boys being adopted by a gay or lesbian couple is a worse fate
than the one they suffered, but I doubt it very much.

: >4. Murder has been committed? You are seriously equating homosexuality
: >with murder? Oh, please, get real — Making love is not the same as
: >putting a bullet through a head.

: By the logic that says a “murder” was committed, we should incarcerate
: women every month at menstruation. And goddess forbid what we should
: do to men if they masturbate or have a wet dream!! Millions of sperms
: that could have been life have died!! Men are MONSTROUS MURDERERS!!

Hey, speak for yourself, man… (Heh heh). Another good point. And even
if a man never masturbated, the occasional wet dream would, as you say,
still hold him as guilty.

And of course contraceptives are all lethal weapons — picket your local
baby-murdering drugstore!

: As to the rest of your post: bravo!

Why, thank you, Sir!

: These people do not have anything remotely like a clue.

Oh, they have a clue; the problem is that their clues all lie in an
entirely different sphere of existence.

—
Warren, That Nut, [email protected],
www.seds.org/~macadamia, PGP block by finger, fanatical Linux convert

“He was dense as lead and half as bright.”

From [email protected] Sun Jan 7 10:02:58 PST 1996
Article: 19095 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!
news.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!seds!macadamia
From: [email protected] (Warren Ockrassa)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Followup-To: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Date: 6 Jan 1996 18:51:09 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona SEDS
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<denni[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: seds.lpl.arizona.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25316 alt.society.civil-liberty:39670 alt.sex.pedophilia:13148
alt.sex.homosexual:9591 alt.sex.advocacy:742 alt.revisionism:19095 alt.religion.sexuality:7805
alt.politics.usa.misc:49399 alt.politics.sex:7892 alt.politics.homosexuality:80607 alt.christnet:42381

John W. Denning ([email protected]) wrote:

: Sorry to miss the point, but where the heck does homosexuality and
: seduceing children mean the same thing. From what I’ve heard there have
: been a few hetro’s seduce children in history. I’d feel real safe saying
: there have been a lot more hetros seduce children than homosexuals.

You’d be right, too. The majority of molesters are avowed heterosexuals,
and I believe the same is true of pedophiles (note the implicit
distinction here, BTW). In fact, many are deeply offended at being
confused with “faggots”.

: To be homosexual means one has the ability to love someone of the same
: sex. That’s it, not seduce children, or have sex on the street, or rape
: everyone of the same sex. Heck I’d even bet there are homosexuals who
: don’t believe in free open sex, they feel it’s a private thing.

Right again! Wow, you’re two for two! Just because I prefer same-sex
intimacy does not mean that I want to mount every man I see, and it does
not mean that I participate in orgies each week (though, of course, I
don’t mind if anyone else does — that’s none of my business).

Sooooo many people seem to have a bizarre idea about what it is to be
homosexual — that we’re involved in some kind of massive conspiracy to
make everyone queer, that we get together every night an screw ’till
dawn, that we only see kids as either sex objects or future “recruits” in
some kind of lavender army.

No one — and I mean no one — has that kind of time and energy.

—
Warren, That Nut, [email protected],
www.seds.org/~macadamia, PGP block by finger, fanatical Linux convert

“He was dense as lead and half as bright.”

From [email protected] Sun Jan 7 10:03:09 PST 1996
Article: 19152 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!darwin.sura.net!news.dfn.de!
newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [email protected](William House )
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: 3 Jan 1996 08:22:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c6dqj$u[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-phi2-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jan 03 12:22:08 AM PST 1996
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26432 alt.society.conservatism:25376 alt.society.civil-liberty:39708
alt.sex.pedophilia:13159 alt.sex.homosexual:9607 alt.sex.advocacy:755 alt.revisionism:19152
alt.religion.sexuality:7821 alt.politics.usa.misc:49459 alt.politics.sex:7908 alt.politics.homosexuality:80637
alt.christnet:42470 alt.books.reviews:15649 alt.activism:19372

[email protected] () writes:
>[email protected] said:

>}I disagree, the burden of `proof’ lies with you folks. After all,
>}it’s you who wants the whole nation to accept homosexuality as a
>}normal and equally valid form of sexual expression alongside
>}heterosexuality.

>But since you’re the one seeking the special revocation of rights
>guaranteed to all citizens under the Constitution, the burdon fall
>upon you to demonstrate to the Government a pressing and compelling
>need for that action to be taken. This has been the position of the
>Supreme Court for a good long while.

>}What I am also saying is that homosexuals have a responsiblity to the
>}rest of the community which they don’t seem to care about, regardless
>}of the harm they are causing.

>Oh, Socialism. I knew we’d get to the juicy stuff sooner or later.

Yea, Kevin, what was that you said about Communists and Nazis being
Socialists?

Or, does it only matter if they are homosexual Nazi/Commies?

From [email protected] Sun Jan 7 13:26:53 PST 1996
Article: 70962 of alt.politics.correct
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!
pipex!warwick!bham!bhamcs!news.ox.ac.uk!sable.ox.ac.uk!mans0113
From: [email protected] (Harry Fulton)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.politics.homosexual,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.british,
alt.news-media,alt.journalism.freelance
Subject: Re: *** “Did Gays TORCH the Reichstag?” ***
Followup-To: alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.politics.homosexual,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.british,
alt.news-media,alt.journalism.freelance
Date: 7 Jan 1996 11:57:10 GMT
Organization: Oxford University, England
Lines: 165
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sable.ox.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.homosexuality:80636 alt.politics.correct:70962 alt.politics.british:26168
alt.news-media:19572

[email protected] wrote:

: Gay History 101

: “The Reichstag Fire,
: A Pretext For Tyranny?”

: In view of the present day homosexualist movement, there are certain
: things which should be know about the role of homosexuals during the
: Weimar period in Germany, which led up to Hitler’s seizure of power on
: January 30, 1933. On February 27, 1933, arsonists set fire to the German
: Reichstag in Berlin. This functioned as a pretext for the Nazis to seize
: complete power, suspend all civil liberties and eliminate their opposition.

: Professor of history, Carroll Quigley writes; “This attack on the
: opposition from above was accompanied by a violent assault from below,
: carried out by the SA. In desparate attacks in which eighteen Nazis and
: fifty-one opposition were killed, all Communist, most Socialist, and many
: Center Party meetings were disrupted. In spite of all this, it was evident
: a week before the election that the German people were not convinced.
: Accordingly, under circumstances which are still mysterious, a plot was
: worked out to burn the Reichstag building and blame the Communists.
: “MOST OF THE PLOTTERS WERE HOMOSEXUALS” and were able to persuade a
: degenerate moron from Holland maned Van der Lubbe to go with them. After
: the building was set on fire, Van der Lubbe was left wandering about in it
: and was arrested by the police. The government at once arrested four
: Communists, including the party leader in the Reichstag (Ernst Torgler).

: The day following the fire (February 28, 1933) Hindenburg signed a decree
: suspending all civil liberties and giving the government power to invade
: any personal privacy, including the right to search private homes or
: confiscate property. At once all communist members of the Reichstag, as
: well as thousands of others, were arrested, and all Communist and Social-
: Democrat papers were suspended for two weeks.

: The true story of the Reichstag fire was kept secret only with difficulty.
: Several persons who knew the truth, including a Nationalist Reichstag
: member, Dr. Oberfohren, were murdered in March and April to prevent their
: circulating the true story. Most of the Nazis who were in on the plot were
: murdered by Goring during the “blood purge” of June 30, 1934. The
: four Communists who were directly charged with the crime were acquitted
: by the rugular German courts, although Van der Lubbe was convicted”

: [Tragedy & Hope, By, Carroll Quigley, The Macmillan Company, New
: York, 1966, Pages 437-438]

: “WHO Set The Reichstag Fire?”

: A second source, Ewan Butler and Gordon Youngs book, “The Life And
: Death of Hermann Goering, documents in more detail the individuals who
: were actually involved.

: “Hitler had been raised to power because the “respectable” people of
: Germany saw in him the champion who would slay the Bolshevick dragon.
: Yet the dragon was, in those first days in 1933, inconveniently quiescent.
: Even those who had been frightened by the horrid visions of Red devilment
: presented to them by the Nazi press and by Nazi orators began to feel that
: perhaps Hitler and his men had exaggerated the Bolshevik danger and that
: the new powers which they were now so busily assuming were unnecessary.
: As for the opponents of the Nazis, they made no secret of the scepticism
: — that it was still possible in those early days — and many waverers
: listened to them.

: Captain Goering decided that he must bring this state of affairs to an
: end. The “revolutionary” element of the Party leadership would, for once,
: act independently, without consulting “legality Adolf,” as Hitler was
: already called behind his back. Goebbels, a fellow “activist,” must be in
: the plot and also, unfortunately, Roehm, since the help of his SA was
: needed. The `camarilla’ which finally drew up plans for the “frame-up”
: against the Communists consisted, besides Captain Goering, its originator,
: of Goebbels, Roehm, Heines, Count Helldorf, leader of the Berlin SA, Karl
: Ernst, a certain Standartenfuhrer (regimental commander) from the SA named
: Sander and two other members of the SA Fielder and von Mohrenschild.”
:
: (Roehm, Heines, Count Helldorf and Karl Ernst were know homosexualists
: and top level Commanders of the SA Storm Troopers)

: [Ewan Butler And Gordon Young, “The Life And Death Of Herman Goering,”
: A David And Charles Military Book, Distributed in the US by Sterling Pub.
: Co. Ltd. 1989:113]

: Butler and Youngs book, goes on to explain the torching of the Reichstag
: in greater detail. History documents that Gays were instrumental in
: propelling Hitler into the Chancellor’s office which gave birth to Nazi
: imperialism and led directly to the Holocaust itself. THE PINK SWASTIKA,
: Homosexuality In The Nazi Party, refutes `gay’ claims that homosexuals
: were targeted as a class, for either persecution, or extermination by the
: Nazis.

: It must be stated, in 1933, Himmler calculated there were 2.2 million
: homosexuals in Germany, representing approximately 2.7% of Germany’s
: population. Gay Holocaust historian James Steakley states that between
: 10,000 and 15,000 prisoners charged under section 175 of the German penal
: code, died in concentration camps, many of who were not homosexuals, many
: were Roehm loyalists, and many were femmes who the Nazis despised as
: symbols of emasculation. This hardly represents a massive `persecution’
: of homosexuals, as many of todays `gay’ activists like to claim. Also The
: Encyclopedia of The Holocaust, records no attacks against homosexuals in
: occupied territories.

: In a most conspicuous omission, Hitler, while railing in Mein Kampf about
: how he is going to eliminate the Jewish people, NEVER mentions anything
: about homosexuals. The Nazis condemned homosexuality for public relations
: and as a catch-all category to eliminate politial enemies. Very few `gays’
: were murdered by the Nazis `because’ of their homosexuality. Homosexuals
: were in fact, instrumental to Hitler’s success and were largely behind
: German style militarism. Being that todays `gay’ rights movement began in
: Germany and because the Society for Human Rights, which became the
: largest homosexual rights movement in Germany during the Weimar period
: (1918-1933)was founded by Nazis, the present North American homosexualist
: movement can be effectively considered a German Nazi fifth column.

: “The most famous incident in the history of the Amerian Nazi Party
: resulted from its 1977 demand to stage a march through the largely
: Jewish neighborhood of Skokie, Illinois, a Chicago suburb and the home
: of many Holocaust survivors. This plan was devised by Frank Collin, who
: often appeared with his followers `in full Nazi regalia: brown shirts,
: black boots, and armbands with swastikas’ and who `advocated that all
: African-Americans, Jews and Latinos be forcibly deported. Civil
: authorities effectively blocked the march at first, but the American
: Civil (anarchy) Liberties Union (ACLU) rose to Collin’s aid and forced
: the city of Chicago to allow it. The subsequent event drew international
: media attention. Homosexualists Johansson and Percy, in “Outing:
: Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence, have finally revealed, more than
: fifteen years later, that Collin was a homosexual pederast. In 1979
: Collin was arrested `for taking indecent liberties with boys between
: ages 10 and 14′ and was sentenced to seven years in prison.”

: [The Pink Swastika, 1995:143-144]

: “Another branch of the American Nazi movement, the National Socialist
: League, is openly homosexual: Founded in 1974 by defecting members of
: the National Socialist White People’s Party, this San Diego-based NSL
: is unique in restricting its members to homosexual Nazis. Led by veteran
: anti-semite Russel Veh, the group distributes membership applications
: declaring NSL’s `determination to seek sexual, social and political
: freedom.”

: [The Pink Swastika, 1995:144]

: In conclusion, THE PINK SWASTIKA is NOT a book based on opinion, but
: documentation, much of which is available to the average reader at your
: local library. The authors of THE PINK SWASTIKA encourage everyone to
: check our sources for themselves. If we can be of further assistance,
: please contact us by `e’mail.

: Regards,

: Kevin E. Abrams

Well there you go, it was the gays who were responsible
for the second world war ! Anyone would have thought it was
the responsibility of an anti-semitic and ( depression induced )
nationalistic german electorate.

Harry.

From [email protected] Mon Jan 8 00:28:12 PST 1996
Article: 19227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!
newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!krel.iea.com!usenet
From: [email protected] (Douglas Goodridge)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: 8 Jan 1996 02:37:48 GMT
Organization: CompuTech
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: c13.iea.com
X-Newsreader: NeoLogic News for OS/2 [version: 4.2 UNREGISTERED -57 days remaining]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25485 alt.society.civil-liberty:39768
alt.sex.pedophilia:13175 alt.sex.homosexual:9623 alt.sex.advocacy:768 alt.revisionism:19227
alt.religion.sexuality:7838 alt.politics.usa.misc:49577 alt.politics.sex:7921 alt.politics.homosexuality:80701
alt.christnet:42668

In message <[email protected]> – [email protected] (George M. C
arter) writes:
:>
:>[email protected] (Warren Ockrassa) wrote:
:>
:>>I agree wholeheartedly — if one has children, hopefully one would be
:>>moved to cherish, protect and provide for them to the best of one’s ability.
:>
:>And heteros have such a terrific track record at this. How many
:>hundreds of thousands of babies are abandoned each year?
:

Or killed or are simply unwanted.

This guy making the “hets embrace life” argument doesn’t seem to live in the
same world as most of us.

In this man’s world, life is always the result of conscious choice. Where
all heterosexuals are good people who embrace life by procreating.

It doesn’t translate well to the real world. A couple of teenagers screw and
the girl gets pregnant. Her future is ruined by this and she grows to hate
and blame the child….

A man rapes a woman who conceives…life has been created, does this make it
right?

Over in many third world countries, children are born by the litter into a
land where their chances of surviving to adulthood are miniscule.

This man’s argument is based on some concept that it takes something special
to create a life. It doesn’t. Nor is morality based upon your ability to
procreate and that is exactly how he sees it.

This person doesn’t really have clue about what it means to be homosexual.
His “logic” is built upon an incorrect assumption: Homosexuals are evil
perverts who chose to be this way and want to convert everyone to
homosexuality.

His argument makes perfect sense using the assumption above. He made his
point well, but the simple fact is that he doesn’t understand homosexuality
and yet feels its his duty to go out and educate the world about it.

Its been said, “A wise man speaks because he has something to say. A fool
speaks because he has to say something.”

I can’t remember a case when I found this more true.

dougg

From [email protected] Mon Jan 8 06:37:36 PST 1996
Article: 19246 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!
howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx10.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (Bill Goodrich)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: 7 Jan 1996 23:52:39 -0700
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c6igh$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nyx10.cs.du.edu
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26486 alt.society.conservatism:25517 alt.society.civil-liberty:39777
alt.sex.pedophilia:13176 alt.sex.homosexual:9627 alt.sex.advocacy:770 alt.revisionism:19246
alt.religion.sexuality:7841 alt.politics.usa.misc:49628

In article <[email protected]>,
Hebert <[email protected]> writes:

>I am an immunologist and I have been following the AIDS pandemic from
>the early eighties.

If that is the case, I find it hard to understand you making the statement:

>If you can remember back to the early eighties in the US we had patient
>zero: a Canadian flight attended who happened to be homo-sexual.

If you ARE what you say above, then you surely would be aware that:

1) The “patient zero” speculation has been discredited by virological,
immunological, and epidemiological evidence, and

2) The “flight attendent” story turned out to be the invention of a
political commentator, and never had any basis in fact. While he has
admitted that there was no factual basis for it, he has threatened to
sue anyone publicly linking him with the story by name (so I won’t).

While some of the outbreaks have been traced to imported blood products,
most are probably impossible to trace to their point of introduction.
While there is still some debate about whether all of the WHO-reported
cases really are what we know as AIDS, it is clear that SOME are, and
the majority of those have evidenced a great deal of heterosexual
transmission.

W.E. (Bill) Goodrich, PhD

*———————–*————————————————*
* CHANGE YOUR SEXUALITY * http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~bgoodric/ctg.html *
* * *
* Without Aversive * [email protected] *
* Behavior Modification * Creative Technology Group *
* or Drugs * PO Box 286 *
* * Englewood, CO 80151-0286 *
*———————–*————————————————*

From [email protected] Mon Jan 8 06:37:38 PST 1996
Article: 19250 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!
howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.ossi.com!pagesat.net!supra.wbm.ca!dial196233.wbm.ca!user
From: [email protected] (Patrick Rogoschewsky)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: The harm caused by homosexuality (was Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 01:02:47 -0700
Organization: WBM Office Systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <4cft1l[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial196233.wbm.ca
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.1
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:25530 alt.society.civil-liberty:39782
alt.sex.pedophilia:13178
alt.sex.homosexual:9629 alt.sex.advocacy:771 alt.revisionism:19250 alt.religion.sexuality:7842
alt.politics.usa.misc:49638 alt.politics.sex:7926 alt.politics.homosexuality:80718

In article <[email protected]>, Scott
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In response to david petry ([email protected]),
> [email protected] (Michael Smith) wrote:
>
> >I’ve known people who were open homosexuals since I was six. Nobody
> >*recruited* me, pal. But since you seem to have a conspiracy in mind,
> >let’s see you back it up. Where are your statistics proving that
> >homosexuals recruit young children? Let’s see figures from the FBI or
> >CDC or Kinsey Institute. The burden of proof that a conspiracy exists
> >rests with you.
>
> Tsk, Mike, are you new at this? Don’t you know that the first rule is
> that the conspiracy is so vast and powerful that it covers its own
> tracks, and therefore evidence is unavailable? The conspirators are
> everywhere, Mike, everywhere, I tell you!! THAT’s why you CAN’T SEE
> THEM!!! THE SYSTEM IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE WITH HOMO JEW NAZIS FROM THE
> HOLLOW EARTH AND THEY CONTROL THE MEDIA FOR THEIR ALIEN MASTERS AND THEY
> KILLED PRESIDENT KENNEDY TO KEEP CASTRO FROM BRINGING BACK THE GOLD
> STANDARD AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

But you can find out about the conspiracy – you just gotta get a hold of
the ’96 edition of the gay agenda (heck only a few days and already out
with the new edition – is that efficiency or what). Of course you have to
be in the ‘loop’ to get hold of the new agenda. Alas I have to struggle
with my older edition 🙁

From [email protected] Mon Jan 1 13:31:16 PST 1996
Article: 18368 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!
nntp.crl.com!crl6.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: [email protected] (William December Starr)
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,
alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,
alt.politics.libertarian.gay,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: New Book, THE PINK SWASTIKA
Date: 31 Dec 1995 23:25:10 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <4c6at[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl6.crl.com
In-reply-to: [email protected]
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:24226 alt.society.civil-liberty:39144 alt.sex.pedophilia:12935
alt.sex.homosexual:9426 alt.sex.advocacy:587 alt.revisionism:18368 alt.religion.sexuality:7593
alt.politics.usa.misc:48261 alt.politics.sex:7672 alt.politics.homosexuality:80010 alt.homosexual:49198
alt.christnet:41102

From [email protected] Thu Jan 4 00:50:51 PST 1996
Article: 18437 of alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!
usenet
From: [email protected] (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,
alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.sexuality,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.christnet,alt.books.reviews,alt.activism
Subject: Kevin, your spam is causing heart attacks by the dozen.
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 22:09:21 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net — Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <4c9uia$[email protected]> <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-228.mixcom.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.israel:26283 alt.society.conservatism:24623 alt.society.civil-liberty:39391
alt.sex.pedophilia:13051 alt.sex.homosexual:9515 alt.sex.advocacy:672 alt.revisionism:18690
alt.religion.sexuality:7704 alt.politics.usa.misc:48755 alt.politics.sex:7791 alt.politics.homosexuality:80317
alt.christnet:41724 alt.books.reviews:15593 alt.activism:18437

The Aktion Reinhard Death Camps

Auschwitz Birkenau

Bergen-Belsen

Buchenwald

Chelmno

Dachau

Maidanek (Majdanek)

Mauthausen

Nordhausen

Belzec

Treblinka

Mittelbau Dora

Gusen

Westerbork

Matthias Giwer

John Hron

Ken McVay

Steve Thomas

Fairview Technologies

Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood: Islamic Extremists and the…

The Heritage Front

The Anti-Defamation League

Abrams 0196-3, Abrams Kevin

Latest article

Who’s On First: The Fairview Server

Fairview Technologies: BC Response

Fairview Technologies

The History of Lies

Materials