Transcript of an interview with David Irving
Radio Station 2BL, Sydney, Australia
"AM," Friday, November 8, 1996
Compere:
But we begin with the historian who could fan the race debate in
Australia. The British historian, David Irving, is testing John Howard's
declaration that he's restored free speech in Australia by again applying
to enter this country.
The Immigration Minister, Philip Ruddock, will today announce whether he'll
be allowed to.
Mr Irving argues there were no Nazi gas chambers and is a strident
apologist for
Adolf Hitler. Those views have seen him banned from Canada
and from Austria, and Mr Irving was also banned from entering Australia
back in 1993 when, ahead of a planned visit, Synagogues were attacked and
fire bombed and Nazi stickers and literature were circulated.
Julie Posetti asked him what he thought his chances were of getting
official approval for another visit to Australia.
David Irving:
I'm fifty-fifty about that. My own belief is that it is not unlikely that
the Australian Government will find, that for reasons of political
correctness, it has to allow the IRA terrorist, Gerry Adams, to come into
Australia and at the same time, for political correctness, they have to
deny the British Historian David Irving his permission to enter which will
be the proof that the bomb is more powerful than the pen.
Julie Posetti:
If your application is successful, though, how will you interpret
its approval?
David Irving:
Well, I will rejoice for Australia - for the Australian people that
freedom of speech has been restored there. All the benefits and the
blessings and the all downside that that brings.
Julie Posetti:
What action will you take, though, if the application is refused?
David Irving:
Well, if it's refused, then there's an immediate line of action
that we can take and that is on the basis of natural justice. And we shall
certainly, immediately, take them to task. It will be back around the
mulberry bush in the law courts in Australia, again, I'm afraid.
Julie Posetti:
You've been banned from Canada, as you mentioned earlier, in fact
I think in 1992 the Canadian's Secretary of State described your views as
abhorrent and as an incitement to racism and you were later declared
persona non gratia, there. But you did choose to enter Canada illegally
and were arrested while giving a speech to Neo-Nazis, apparently at a
Chinese restaurant.
You've also ignored bans imposed on you by some countries in Europe. If
Australia does refuse you entry, will you choose to come here by stealth
anyway?
David Irving:
Oh, no. Good Lord. I'm a great believer in abiding by the law and
I don't give speeches to Neo-Nazis. The audiences who come to attend my
talks in restaurants or in private halls or whatever, they're middle aged
people, usually respectable gentlemen and their wives wearing collars and
ties and eating with knives and forks. No jack boots on site, no
skinheads, no Nazi flags. This is just
a picture that is concocted by my
enemies to try and make me unappetising.
Julie Posetti:
Well, in fact, the accounts that I've read of some of your
addresses, including one in Germany, there were Neo-Nazis chanting slogans,
you spoke from the back of a truck and Nazi salutes were being given, and
you were being guarded by White Supremacists, Neo Nazi thugs were present -
none of that true?
David Irving:
Repeatedly on television in Australia they show this scene of me
speaking from the back of a truck in Halle, and half way through that
scene, you then see young men with skinheads in the front of the audience
giving the Hitler salute and shouting, "Sieg Heil", and what I say is show
the whole film, please, because then you will see me saying to these idiots
in the front row, who've been hired by the local television cameramen to do
precisely that, me shouting at them through the microphone, "Why are you
giving these outdated and discredited salutes and slogans of the past when
I've just said to you, you are Germany's future and the eyes of the world
are on you".
Julie Posetti:
There's another account in March 1991 where you addressed a rally
of around about eight thousand people in Passacel - apparently rioting
followed that as well. And you were reported in the Independent Newspaper
afterwards as saying, "I'm a mob orator".
David Irving:
Yeah.
Julie Posetti:
What did you mean by that? Were you hoping to incite the masses?
David Irving:
Oh, Good Lord, no.
Julie Posetti:
But in a historical context, a mob is usually used to describe
the masses of people, often poorly educated, who rise up and revolt.
David Irving:
I take your word for it, yes.
Julie Posetti:
Have you heard of Pauline Hanson and the talk of the outbreak of
racial hatred in Australia which has been linked to her attacks on
Aborigines and Asians here?
David Irving:
I read her Parliamentary Maiden Speech with great interest and I
understand that is what triggered the whole of this particular recent
avalanche. And it's a very interesting phenomenon. I think it's
symptomatic of how Governments get out of contact with public feeling.
Julie Posetti:
What did you think of her speech?
David Irving:
I thought it was a very fair attempt.
Julie Posetti:
Although you were here eight years ago, you did attempt to come
to Australia in 1993, but you were banned and while your trip was being
planned, there actually was an outbreak of violence in Australia and a lot
of threats against Jewish people. Synagogues were vandalised and one was
actually daubed with the words "Irving was here - six million lies" and
"White Power".
David Irving:
I like the way you use the passive voice. I always call it the
cowardly passive voice. Synagogues were vandalised - whom by? We don't
know who did that.
Julie Posetti:
But you were blamed as one of the catalysts for that unrest.
David Irving:
Well, maybe - can I be extreme enough to suggest that they were
certain people who had an interest in daubing synagogues with my name in
order to ensure that I'm kept out?
Julie Posetti:
Such as Jews?
David Irving:
I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I'm not saying that they're
the only people organising the campaign to keep me out.
Julie Posetti:
At the same time, in 1993, you were reported as saying on radio
in Melbourne, with reference to Holocaust survivors in Australia, "Now, I'm
coming to hit back. I'm coming back and they're going to hurt". Did you
say those words?
David Irving:
That's right.
Julie Posetti:
What did you mean?
David Irving:
What I mean by that is these people have thought that, at a range
of twelve thousand miles, they can smear as they like. I think that if
they're here tomorrow, at one o'clock, that I'm going to be allowed into
Australia, these people will begin to tremble in their boots because they
know that I will be within striking range of them.
I can go and see the law courts, I can go and see my lawyers and say,
"Let's set up the necessary action against these people within the law, to
call them to order".
Julie Posetti:
Does it concern you, though, that wherever you go, there does
seem to be outbreaks of violence and that you are connected with that
violence?
David Irving:
Well, I understand that Jewish and Zionist Organisations in
Australia have made it known that if they find out where I'm going to be
lecturing, then there will be violence organised by them. But, in this
case, they're the criminals and they're the ones who should be deported,
not me. I shall be remaining strictly within the law. But we'll cross
that bridge when we get to it.
Compere:
The British Historian, David Irving, and he was speaking there, to
Julie Posetti.
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