The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)


A Periodic Posting
Which appears to leave Mr. Griswold speechless

I have been pondering the strange "debating techniques" employed by Canada's own Mr. Griswold for some time, and thought it might be instructive to re-examine his comments. It is my hope that they might shed some small light on the chappie's viewpoints, particularly as regards racism and Canada's First Nations.

My curiosity began with the following statement, which Mr. Griswold shared with users in alt.skinheads:

Yep, just absolutely kills me. It also peeves me that wagon-burners can claim to be "Canadian" further back than I can. (Griswold, Lester's)

When Bill Stuart pointed out that "Indians in Canada didn't burn wagons," Mr. Griswold responded with the following observation...

No, but "wagon-burner" is a much catchier epithet than "woman raper and child torturer".

Sadly, no-one questioned Mr. Griswold's assertion that Canada's First Nations peoples burned wagons, raped women, and tortured children. Had they done so, it now seems apparent, it would have been to no avail. Mr. Griswold, it seems, is strong on asking questions, and, er, weak on answering them...

To Mr. Stuart's comment that "Canada did not exist back when there was a serious conflict between indians and non-indians," Mr. Griswold's considered response was...

No, but White men did. (Griswold, Ghandi, 7 Jan. 1995)

Mr. Griswold, alas, didn't expand upon this curious statement, leaving 50,000,000 Internet users quite in the dark... over the next few days, however, Mr. Griswold did deign enlighten those users with regard to his knowledge of affairs political:

It's a real shame, isn't it, that a beautiful country like Australia is being wasted on those miserable chinks, not to mention the Aborigines? It's almost as pathetic as thinking about the Indians having Canada. (Griswold, Hey)

Mr. Griswold, it would appear, has little respect for the Chinese.
The Australian Aboriginal.
The Canadian Native.

Sure, Starkman. I guess the only way to get your hescher of approval would be to suck up to the damned "schwartzes". You'd rather attack a White man's intelligence than a nigger's proven stupidity. (Griswold, Re: Lester's)

The Black.

Not to be disssuaded from his quest for historial truth, however, Mr. Griswold quickly returns to his subject of choice - the population of Canada's First Nations peoples:

If we wiped 'em out, why are there still so many of them here? In fact, there are more Indians now than there were when Columbus landed (don't believe me? Check how much Listerine is being sold) (Griswold, Ghandi)

Mr. Griswold, receiving a response to this brilliant reparte, adds this further reinforcement of his demand for accurate data:

Nice flame, Ghandi, but I notice that you didn't answer the question, which was, if we wiped out the Indians, why are there so many of them? (Griswold, Re: Ghandi, 7 Jan. 1995)

As we can see, however, Mr. Griswold somehow neglected to answer his own question.... soon, however, he clearly outlines the importance which he attaches to his own question, by repeating it yet again:

That's a pretty good one too, Toddy, but my original question remains strangely unanswered: if we slaughtered the Indians, WHY are there so many of them now? (Griswold, Re: Ghandi, 8 Jan. 1995)

Mr. Griswold now demonstrates that he is ignorant as to the Native population statistics, in spite of his repeated question, which now begins to appear as somewhat ill-considered.. in short, Mr. Griswold hasn't a clue:

Well, no shit, Sherlock. Why don't you put that in absolute numbers? Lesse, here, 2% of 29 million, that's about 580,000. How many were there when they were 100% of the population? (Griswold, Re: Ghandi, 10 Jan. 1995)

In response to my query about pre-immigration Native population vrs. present Native population, Mr. Griswold demonstrates that he has not yet fallen victim to Raven's Myopia<tm> - he did indeed see my questions:

In a previous posting, Ken Mcvay ( writes:

> Two questions: First, how many were there when the white man came?
> Second: how many are there now?

> What a specious question, Mr. Griswold.

Which question are you calling "specious"?

Second, I think that the question is very valid, in light of how people whine and kvetch about how we "slaughtered" the Indians. (Griswold, Native)

Since my original query, in which I asked Mr. Griswold for a few simple facts, in the hope he was prepared to support his allegations, Mr. Griswold seems to have developed Raven's Myopia. In spite of my having asked him, on at least seven occasions, those same questions, i.e. "How many were there before the white man came," and "How many are there now," Mr. Griswold remains strangely silent - particularly in light of the following:

You can't expect people like J. White to present ALL the facts, just the ones that make their arguments look valid. (Griswold, Re: welfare)

Mr. Griswold:

Since the quote above quite clearly places you in that select group of folks who insist upon "ALL the facts," I call upon you now to respond to two simple questions:

1. How many Natives were there on this continent before the white folks arrived, and

2. How many are there now?

It is interesting to note that, on the 26th. of March, 1995, when accused of evasion with regard to the questions above, Mr. Griswold's only response was:

No. I just don't care. Exact numbers aren't relevant (except in the case of the sacred "Holocaust", apparently); the effects of their lobbying IS. (Griswold, Re: Ken McVay)

So, after harping on the Native population issue again and again, making it clearly seem that the matter was of no small importance, Mr. Griswold now "doesn't care."

Work Cited

Griswold, Les. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Ghandi the dick-drip," Sat, 7 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Ghandi the dick-drip," 7 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Ghandi the dick-drip," Sat, 7 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Ghandi the dick-drip," Sun, 8 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. Subject: "Re: Ghandi the dick-drip," Tue, 10 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Hey Bill...," Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Lester's sig line," Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Lester's sig line," Fri, 6 Jan 1995. Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.revisionism. Subject: "Re: Ken McVay, victim of the same myopia he sees in others," Sun, 26 Mar 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: Native population, then and now," Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

-------------. UseNet alt.skinheads. Subject: "Re: welfare," Thu, 12 Jan 1995, Message-ID:

N.B. The articles noted in the above section are available via anonymous ftp, from, in the directory pub/people/g/griswold.les/1995

The original plaintext version of this file is available via ftp.

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