The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)
Nuremberg, war crimes, crimes against humanity

The Trial of German Major War Criminals

Sitting at Nuremberg, Germany
9th August to 21st August 1946

Two Hundred and Third Day: Wednesday, 14th August, 1946
(Part 6 of 6)

[SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE continues his cross examination of Max Juettner]

[Page 183]

Q. I will ask you to look at Document D-970, my Lord; that will become Exhibit GB 602, and your Lordship will find it at Page 64-A. My Lord, this is a report to the defendant Frank, as Governor General, dated 25th September, 1944. The subject is: The Prior of the Carmelite Monastery of Czerna, who was shot at by one of the SA Einsatzkommandos mentioned. It runs:
"The incident under consideration took place in connection with the operation to obtain people for carrying out special building plans in the district of Ilkenau. It came to the knowledge of the Sub-Regional Commander of the Security Police and SD in Cracow via the branch office of Kressendorf and the strong-point of Wolbron. As the place where the deed was committed lies within the area of the Einsatzstab of Ilkenau, the investigations were carried out by the Regional State Police Headquarters at Kattowitz - branch post Ilkenau. The results of the investigations provided the following facts:

The possibility of carrying out the planned building operations in the area in question within the period laid down was made doubtful by the fact that the various communities did not provide the number of workers imposed on them.

As a result, the construction staff at Kattowitz ordered a special detachment composed of 12 SA men to bring in workers from the various villages. The execution of this task by this SA Einsatzkommando was in any case carried out by them in such a way that they first approached the village mayor and presented the demand."

Then it goes on to describe how, when it was refused, they searched the houses. Some of the inhabitants offered resistance when the houses were searched, which had to be broken by the use of arms.
"In view of the fact that partisans had several times appeared in this area during recent times, the SA men reckoned that partisans were living in the villages during the day disguised as civilians. Besides that, when workers were obtained, the local conditions were taken into account."
That's the first one, collecting forced labour from this village.

Now we have another SA Kommando

"The Prior of Czerna Monastery was seized by members of the SA Einsatzkommando in Novojewa Gora. He was told to remain with the men of the SA Einsatzkommando for the time being. While the members of the detachment were in a house in order to search it for workers, the Prior - according to what the Kattowitz Regional State Police Headquarters established - used this opportunity, which seemed suitable to him, to escape. As he

[Page 184]

did not stop when shouted at several times and after some warning shots had been fired but on the contrary, ran even faster and tried to escape, he was fired at.

The Prior had been arrested because he was alleged to have made obstructive statements to other workers about the Ostwall - Eastern Defensive Line - and the building undertaking, which tended to influence the labourers' already weak will to work in a still more unfavourable manner. It was intended to take the priest first to the construction staff at Nielepiece and from there to the office of the Security Police."

Now, note the last paragraph, and this is:
"According to the report of the Regional State Police at Kattowitz: steps are to be taken to ensure that in future such operations are carried out not by SA men but by police officials."
Now, witness, why did you tell the Tribunal ten minutes ago that there were not any SA Einsatzkommandos and that they never searched for forced labour in the Government General? Why did you say that; you knew it was untrue, why did you say it?

A. That is not untrue. On the contrary, I shall repeat this statement once more and stick to it, namely, that the SA did not have Einsatzkommandos. These SA men here were probably called in by the office furnishing this report and conscripted for emergency service - I have no other explanation - as auxiliary police and the reporting office simply designated the conscripted auxiliary police detachments in its terminology as SA Einsatzkommandos. This term does not come from us. We did not have any such units, nor did we organize any, and the responsibility for the actions which were carried out here did not lie with the SA, but with the office which employed the men.

In addition, I can say that we repeatedly stated our objections to the police department itself of the Government General with regard to the too frequent use of SA members in the Government General for police purposes. We did not want that, we did not want to have any police duties performed by the SA. However, they were called in as auxiliary police officials from time to time, by virtue of a legal provision. If it says at the end:

"In the future SA men are no longer to be used, but police officials," then this undoubtedly means, not auxiliary police officials, but regular police officials.
Q. But the police have made objections to the SA doing this work, and have also objected to the brutal methods with which they carried it out.

Do I gather, from that long answer of yours, that you do know that SA men were being used as auxiliary police in the Government General? Is that what you are telling the Tribunal?

A. We repeatedly received reports from SA Leader Kuehnemund, who was working there, that SA men had been conscripted for police service by virtue of legal provisions.

Q. At any rate, that is something.

Now I want you to tell me this. You said, in your report on the war, that the SA had been used regarding prisoners of war. Did not the SA also guard forced labour camps?

A. I never knew that we are supposed to have guarded labour camps.

Q. Well, now, let me give you the names of some of the camps which I suggest you guarded Sakrau, a forced labour camp at which the inmates were all Jews, Mechtal, Markstadt, Faulbrueck, Reichenberg and Annaberg.

A. This is the first time that I have heard these names in connection with labour camps.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE. Your Lordship will find, at Page 131 of the Document Book 16-B, an affidavit of Rudolf Schoenberg. That will be Exhibit

[Page 185]

GB 601, my Lord. He speaks of the SA guarding these camps, and of the conditions. He finishes by saying: "All I wish to say here is that the SA in no way lagged behind the SS in their murderous and criminal methods at that time." which was in 1940.


Q. Let me put another point to you. Do you remember the SA guarding a labour camp at Frauenberg, near Admont? That was a camp for shirkers and drunkards, of about 300 prisoners. Do you remember the SA guarding that?

A. That is completely unknown to me. I have never heard about it.

Q. I put the document - there is no doubt that it is a personal report to Himmler. Now just have a look at it. It is 034.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, it has a certain melancholy interest in that it deals with the selection of Auschwitz as a concentration camp.

My Lord, the point that I am dealing with, and it is only on this one point - I beg your pardon, my Lord, the affidavit should have been Exhibit GB 603, and this is Exhibit GB 604.

Q. (continuing): Now, will you look at that?

THE PRESIDENT: What page is it on?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: I am sorry, my Lord, Page 132, the next page. That is a report from an SS Oberfuehrer called Gluecks, whose name I think we are not unfamiliar with. It is a report to Himmler of 21st February, 1940, in which the man Gluecks deals with five possible concentration camps which Himmler might consider using, or rather, six possible concentration camps. The third of these is a place called Frauenberg, and he says:

"Frauenberg is a labour camp set up by the Provincial Welfare Union of Styria for shirkers and drunkards. It consists of five wooden huts and can take 300 prisoners.

The labour prisoners are exclusively Styrians who are paid for their work by the Provincial Welfare Union of Styria during their time in the camp - 27 to 57 pfennig an hour, less food.

The SA - about 20 men - do the guarding. The labour prisoners are employed in two quarries and on building roads."

Then it says:
"The whole place is now State property; formerly it belonged to the Admont Foundation."
BY SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: Q. Now, witness, how would it come about that these SA men were employed in guarding a labour camp, and you, the Deputy Chief of Staff, knew nothing about it? How could you be ignorant of these facts? Just explain to the Tribunal; how could you be ignorant?

A. If these men were employed, then they acted as conscripted auxiliary policemen. Just as National Socialist Motor Corps (NSKK) men, or any other citizens could be legally conscripted as auxiliary policemen, SA men, too, were conscripted as auxiliary police by virtue of legal provisions. Those were State measures which had nothing to do with the SA, which could not be influenced by the SA, and about which the SA did not even know. It was impossible for the SA leadership to know about the fate of every individual man, as it is being expressed in your question. That was quite out of the question. They were not SA men, but men who had been conscripted into the police.

Q. I suggest it to you, and I put the evidence of the way the SA were occupied during the war years.

I now want to ask you a little about the training which fitted them for doing such work.

Do you deny that the SA was the bearer of the military thought of Germany?

[Page 186]

A. Such questions have already been asked me during the preliminary interrogations. You are always confusing defensive thinking with military thinking. The SA represented and stood for defensive thinking. That has nothing to do with military service or military training.

Q. And you say that had nothing to do with the cultivation of the offensive Spirit, do you?

A. In no way, not in the least.

Q. Why did your friend Lutze, of whom you have told us so much, in his lecture in 1939, put the two things together so strongly?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, it is only a short reference from a document that is already in - 3215-PS - which is Exhibit USA 426, and, my Lord, it is in the original SA Document Book.

Q. (continuing): This is an article by Lutze, as head of the SA, on SA military training, dated 11th March, 1939, in which he says:

"The men never forgot the mission of the Fuehrer to require the military training of the German men and to reconstruct the military spirit of the German people."
And he quotes the very well-known passage from Mein Kampf which I am sure, witness, you know by heart:
"The sport troop of the SA shall be the bearer of the military thought of a free people."
And he gives Hitler's words:
"Give the German nation six million bodies perfectly trained in sport, all fanatically inspired with love for the Fatherland, and trained to the highest offensive spirit."
In a sentence, are not these words of your chief Lutze, the spirit and. aim under which you worked to train the SA from 1934 to 1939?

A. I really am surprised that the Prosecutor, after these many months of the trial, has not yet discovered the difference between defensive thinking and military raining. That was discussed in detail during preliminary proceedings before the commission. Lutze did not write about military training; he wrote about defensive education. That is something quite different from military training.

We did what every country expects from its patriots, we educated, we trained people physically and morally, nothing more, but we did not make any preparation or war, such as you are trying to foist upon me now.

Q. If that was as you say, why was it that as early as 25th July, 1933, the SA command was ordering no publicity about technical, signal, and motorized companies or separate air wings, "because they may be taken as an infringement of Versailles.''

SIR DAVID MAXWELL FYFE: My Lord, that is Document D-44, Exhibit USA 428; that is the first document in the book, my Lord.

Q. (continuing): Why was your leadership such that what the SA was doing n the way of these technical units would be construed as an infringement of Versailles, and any publicity was to endanger the person publicising it with prosecution for high treason, if you were not doing military training?

A. About that, too, I have already testified before the Commission. That order was connected with Roehm's attempts to create a militia, and the details must become apparent from the record.

A. If the Tribunal wishes me to do so, I shall repeat what I stated for the record.

THE PRESIDENT: Just answer the question.


Q. Why were you afraid that the SA training and formation of technical units would be considered an infringement of the Treaty of Versailles if they were not military?

[Page 187]

A. Roehm's negotiations with foreign countries had not been concluded and consequently some false suspicion might have arisen.

Q. Well, then, why was von Reichenau now suggesting in May, 1933, that the Supreme SA Command should combine representation with the Party on the Reich Defence Council? Why were you to be represented on the Reich Defence Council if you were not conducting military training?

My Lord, that is, I think, a new document. It is 2822-PS, and it becomes Exhibit GB 605. That document was never put in, but your Lordship will find it in the old SA Document Book. I am afraid that is not paged, but it is No. 2822-PS. It is "Strictly Confidential," dated 26th May, 1933. From the Chief of Ministerial Office in the War Department to the Supreme SA Command. Your Lordship, it is very short. It is from von Reichenau. I do not know what his rank was then. I think he became a General or a Field-Marshal later on.

"In addition to my letter of 22nd May, 1933, may I bring to your attention that the desire has been transmitted to me from the defence policy bureau of the NSDAP to be also represented in the Reich Defence Council.

I want to submit for consideration that this representation be combined in personal union with the representation of the Supreme SA Command, and that possibly one suitable person be charged with both representations."

Why was the SA Supreme Command making a request to be represented on the Reich Defence Council if it was not doing military training?

A. The representation on the Reich Defence Council has nothing whatever to do with military training. At that time, as I have already testified before the Commission, provision had been made that in the event that we should not be able to pay the reparation costs and would have to expect an invasion from the West, all Germans capable of military service would be evacuated from the left bank of the Rhine. The task of carrying out this evacuation was given to the SA, through the Party. To this extent the SA and the Party were both interested in what was discussed in the so-called Reich Defence Council.

DR. BOEHM: Mr. President, may I disturb you for a moment?

This document contains a confirmation of the fact that this was turned down by Roehm. It might be to the purpose to put that to the witness, too, that it was turned down by Roehm. It says here: "I talked to Krueger - no, to Reichenau about it, signed 'Roehm.'" Therefore, he turned it down.

THE PRESIDENT: We had better adjourn now, I think.

(The Tribunal adjourned until 15th August, at 1000 hours.)

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