The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)
Nuremberg, war crimes, crimes against humanity

The Trial of German Major War Criminals

Sitting at Nuremberg, Germany
2nd May to 13th May, 1946

One Hundred Ninteenth Day: Thursday, 2nd May, 1946
(Part 7 of 12)

[MR. JUSTICE JACKSON continues his cross examination of Hjalmar Schacht]

[Page 26]

A. Mr. Justice Jackson, you said that in 1933 I had permitted myself to be seen publicly with Streicher and Bormann as a representative of the National Socialist Party, and I should like to know, therefore, where this picture was taken and when. I can't identify it.

Q. I asked you about after 1933 - Schacht, do you deny this is a photograph -

A. No, no. By no means. I am merely asking when it was taken. I do not think this refers to 1933 or 1934.

Q. When was it, if you want to tell us?

A. I don't know; I can't tell you.

Q. I will show you another photograph - two photographs, Nos. 3 and 4. No. 3 shows you marching with Dr. Robert Ley among others.

A. Yes.

Q. No. 4 shows you entering the hall, marching, and giving the Nazi salute.

A. Yes, yes.

Q. And Ley was the man who suppressed the labour unions of Germany?

A. Yes.

Q. And those are correct photographs, are they not?

A. Certainly.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I offer them in evidence as Exhibit USA 829.

Q. I will show you photographs marked Nos. 1 and 2 and 6 - and 7. Now let us look at No. 1. Do you recall where that was taken?

A. Yes-one moment, if it is the number 1 have here - yes, just a minute.

Q. Where was it taken?

A. I think No. 1 is a picture from the Reich Chancellery, if I am not mistaken.

Q. Among the persons appearing in No. 1 is Frick?

A. Gurtner, Goebbels, Popitz, Schacht, Papen, Goering and others, and Hitler in the middle.

Q. And Neurath? Do you recognize him?

A. Neurath. Yes; I think he is immediately on Hitler's right, in the background.

Q. Goebbels?

A. Yes, I said Goebbels.

Q. You identify Funk as present in the picture, at the extreme right, only a part of his body showing.

[Page 27]

A. Who is that?

Q. Funk, the defendant Funk.

A. No, that is Goering.

Q. Back of Goering and back of Neurath.

A. I beg your pardon. Perhaps I have a different picture. I beg your pardon. That is No. 2. On No. 2 I see from left to right: Popitz, Rust, Goering, Neurath, Hitler, Blomberg, Schacht, Gurtner, Krosigk, Elz von Ruebenach, and then at the very back on the right, Funk.

Q. And let us take No. 7. Who do you identify as your company in that photograph?

A. On the extreme left, my late wife; then the vice- president of the Reichsbank, Dr. Reise, Hitler and myself. There is an adjutant of Hitler, and the heavy-set man on the right - I do not know who he is. This is a photograph taken when the foundation of the new Reichsbank building was laid in 1934. Directly behind me, on the right, is Blomberg.

Q. And No. 6?

A. One moment. That is the picture where I am walking alongside Hitler, is that right? That is Hitler's entrance in my company on the occasion when the foundation of the new Reichsbank building was laid. Behind me, or rather behind Hitler, you can see Geheimrat Vocke, who is to appear as a witness here tomorrow, and several other gentlemen from the directorate of the Reichsbank.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I offer the remaining photographs, 1, 6 and 7 in evidence under the same number.

Q. So it would appear, Dr. Schacht, that a good deal of your present company was the company that started off with you in 1933 and 1934?

A. Is that a question?

Q. Well, is that not true?

A. No. If you had photographed me with my other acquaintances just as often, the number would be ten times as great.

Q. You have testified - and I refer to Page 377, Part 12 - that there were reasons of principle why you did not become a Party member and that Party membership would not be compatible with your principles?

A. That is right.

Q. And you also testified - I refer to Page 398, Part 12 - that from 1932 to the 30th of January, 1933 - I am quoting you.

"I have not written or spoken a single word publicly for Hitler."
A. I think that is right, if you emphasize "publicly."

Q. You must emphasize "publicly"?

A. Yes.

Q. I want now to ask you about the next thing. You also said:

"I have never helped in any way to exert any influence in favour of Hitler through discussions with any of the competent gentlemen: Hindenburg, Meissner, etc., and I did not participate in any way in the appointment of Hitler to Reich Chancellor."
Is that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Now, are there any words that we have to emphasize in that in order to understand it correctly?

A. No, in reference to Hitler becoming Chancellor, please note I said, "competent men."

Q. Well, I don't just know what you mean by that, but I'll give you a chance to explain.

A. Yes. When I say "competent," I mean those people who could decide upon who was to be Chancellor. Of course, I did say that Hitler would be Chancellor and must become Chancellor, and I expressed these convictions in private circles.

[Page 28]

Did you say that in public?

A. No, I said that only in a circle of my friends, business acquaintances, etc.

Q. Now, I want to quote you a statement by von Papen:

"When I was Chancellor of Germany, in 1932, Schacht came to see me in July or August, while I was at home. He said: 'Here's a very intelligent man.' It was in the presence of my wife, and I have never forgotten it. He said: 'Give him your position. Give it to Hitler. He is the only man who can save Germany.'"
Did you say that or didn't you?

A. I don't know whether I said that he was the only man who could save Germany, but I did tell him that Hitler would, and must become Chancellor. But that was in August or July of 1932, after the July elections, and it has nothing to do with Hitler's nomination, which did not take place until after the Schleicher Cabinet, about which I have been examined here.

Q. Now, Dr. Schacht, I just asked you if you had not testified that you had nothing to do with his coming to the Chancellorship and you said-

A. That is the truth.

Q. - and it is here said that you asked von Papen to give the place to him and -

A. Yes.

Q. - and do you contend - and I want you to say anything you want to about this - do you contend that that was not aiding Hitler to the Chancellorship?

A. I don't know whether it was aiding Hitler. In the course of my examination here, I have been asked whether I had exerted any influence in connection with Hitler's election or his nomination for the Chancellorship in January, 1933, I have given the names of Hindenburg, Meissner, and so forth, that is to say, Hindenburg's circle. Since the beginning of November, 1932, Papen was no longer Chancellor, and thus he had no influence upon these matters at all. I did not talk to Papen at all during those weeks. On the contrary, after the elections of 1932, I said that it is inevitable that a man who has obtained so many votes in the Reichstag must take over the political lead.

Q. Now let me get you correctly. When you saw Hitler was going to win, you joined him?

A. No.

Q. Well, I'll just make it clear what you do mean. You did not assist him until he had already accumulated more votes than any other Party in the Reichstag?

A. I did not join Hitler when I saw that he would win, but when I had discovered that he had won.

Q. Oh, well, I'll accept the amendment. You've referred to your letter to Hitler on the 29th of August, 1932, -

A Yes.

Q. - in which you advised him not to put forward any detailed economic programme?

A. Yes.

Q. You told him there was no such programme on which fourteen millions could agree?

A. Yes.

Q. And that economic policy is not a factor for building up a party?

A. Yes.

Q. And you added that: "You can always count on me as your reliable assistant." Did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. And then that was after he had won?

A. Yes.

Q. And then on the 12th of -

A. November.

[Page 29]

Q. Yes, I just want to refer to that Document as 456-EC, Exhibit USA 773. Now, then, on the 12th of November, 1932, you wrote a letter to him, in which you said, among other things: "I have no doubt that the present development of things can only lead to your becoming Chancellor."

A. Yes.

Q. "It seems as if our attempt to collect a number of signatures from business circles for this purpose is not altogether in vain - ."

A. Yes.

Q. You were collecting signatures for this purpose?

A. Not I, but I participated.

Q. You were assisting?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was Document 456-EC. Now, as of November, 1932, a document was prepared for a large number of industrialists to sign, urging the selection of Hitler as Chancellor in substance, was there not?

A. I no longer remember the document, but I assume that that is the document.

Q. And men like Schacht, Schroder and Krupp, and a great number of other industrialists, signed that document, did they not?

A. That is possible, yes.

Q. And it was sent to von Hindenburg?

A. I do not know.

Q. Well, the purpose of it was to aid Hitler in obtaining the Chancellorship?

A. That is possible.

Q. It is addressed to the Reich President, is it not? Document 3901-PS, Exhibit USA 831.

A. I have not seen it, but it is probably correct.

Q. Well, you don't deny that that occurred?

A. I assume that it is correct. I have not seen it, but I don't doubt it at all.

Q. Then, in November of 1932, you communicated to Hitler the result of your money-raising campaign, did you not?

A. I do not know anything about that.

Q. Well, I'll remind you from your own interrogation. Well, I'll remind you first of your testimony, in which you say that it appears that you did not plead for funds, but that Goering pleaded for funds, and I ask if you did not, on the 9th of October, 1945, give these answers to these questions as to events of February, 1933?

A. Events of what?

Q. Events of February, 1933.

A. Yes, thank you very much.

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