Path: firstname.lastname@example.org From: Steve Mock
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.palestine,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.german,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.correct Subject: Re: Jews are Jews anywhere in the World (not really citizens of their host nation)!! Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:57:12 +0000 Organization: Netwave Communications Inc. Lines: 75 Message-ID: <3365FE38.3F73@veritas.nizkor.org> References: <3362A7DD.7C27@mindspring.com> <33643CFE.4EE7@spam-not.net> <email@example.com> <33656CBC.540D@spam-not.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nw68.netwave.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Xref: news.voyager.net soc.culture.african.american:200827 soc.culture.palestine:30274 alt.revisionism:112976 alt.politics.usa.republican:390092 soc.culture.german:63971 alt.conspiracy:200914 alt.politics.nationalism.white:61593 alt.politics.white-power:71629 alt.politics.correct:176233 Capt. Francis Queeg wrote: > > Ron Schwarz wrote: > > > On Mon, 28 Apr 1997 01:00:30 -0500, Sir Philip Cavendish McTavish > > wrote: > > >"There are no English, French, German or American Jews, but only Jews > > >living in England, France, Germany or America." Chaim Weizmann, Zionist > > >Leader, on August 29, 1897, at the First Zionist Congress at Basle, > > >Switzerland. > > > "The blood of the Jews shall run in the streets." Richard Wagner, > > noted composer. > > > Since you like quotes so much, I thought I'd give you one. I wonder > > which one people will think is more despicable. > > Tavish replies: > Wagner was just a composer and stated his personal belief- the man you > quoted. Chaim Weizmann on the other hand spoke as a Zionist Leader, thus > for a large political entity- the man I quoted. I think the man I quoted > and exposed is far more despicable myself. I also see that what Weizmann > said had far more sinister meanings too- such as meaning that Jews are > only devoted to Jewry hence Zionism and the future State of Israel being > proposed at the time! Let us see what the public thinks! You obviously do know how to critically analyze a quote or document. Among the questions one must ask when dealing with such quotes are: 1) When was it said and under what historical circumstances? 2) Who said it and who did he/she represent? 3) Who was the intended audience? The answers to these questions significantly affect the meaning of the quote. You propose, without explaining how you reach this conclusion, that "what Wiezmann said" had the "sinister meaning" that Jews are only devoted to Jewry, Zionism, and Israel, and therefore not to the countries of which they were citizens. A common anti-Semitic slur, that I'm sure you expect much of the "public" to accept unquestioningly because you do. But was Weizmann really capable of representing world Jewry when he made this statement in 1897? Did he even think that he was? The Zionist movement was only beginning, and it represented only a limited segment of the Jewish population out of several political and religious ideologies that were attracting Jews at the time. There were far more Jews in the world who very much wanted to be equal citizens of their host countries, and identified themselves as, for example, "Germans of the Mosaic faith", to coin a phrase, rejecting the national element of Judaism. Weizmann was not speaking for these people. Rather he was addressing them. He wasn't even telling them that they were wrong to adopt such an attitude, but rather that they were deluding themselves in believing that they would ever be accepted as equal citizens. He was not announcing to the world that English, French, German and American Jews actually see themselves as Jews living in England, France, Germany and America. Rather, he was telling fellow Jews who see themselves and English, French, German and American Jews that the English, French, Germans and Americans actually see them as Jews living in England, France, Germany and America. Further, that no matter how much they try to be loyal citizens of their countries, their countries would never fully accept them as such, and therefore Zionism was a better political alternative. In the end, he was proved absolutely right. Now lets look at Wagner, who was not "just a composer" as you put it, but was a very influential figure in the cultural and political life of his country. He was addressing the German people as a whole in his anti-Semitic diatribes, and encouraging them to create just the state of affairs that Weizmann describes: a climate in which no matter how much Jews might desire to be accepted in the countries in which they are loyal citizens, they will never be accepted simply for the fact that they are Jews. Weizmann encourages a powerless minority to stop kidding themselves and face the difficult political reality of their status in their host countries. Wagner incites his people, the dominant majority, to genocide against a minority. Which do I find more despicable?
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