The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/s/stele.kurt/pathetic-coward

From: Kimberley Ahlf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Been Fun
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:21:48 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
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References:  <>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: hubbard
In-Reply-To: <>

Mr. Stele, you really are a pathetic coward.  At every turn I have tried
to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have repeatedly lied,
falsified and avoided honest debate.  Now you have really outdone

I last posted a reply to you on November 7th, and for one week you have
been absent on this newsgroup.  You have not responded to my post.
Yesterday I stated publicly that I will be removing myself from this forum
for a period so that I can focus my attention on an important project that
has come my way.  Today you reappear, and the first thing you do is smear
more of your denial upon the post in which I announced my absence.  

Were it not for the fact that someone forwarded your message to my
personal e-mail I would not have known you were attacking me publicly on
alt.revisionism.  While I suppose nearly all conduct is fair on the
newsgroups, the fact that you shirked away from my challenges only to
resurface after you thought I'd left speaks volumes about your character,
you- the same man who once insisted your opponents distinguished
themselves as cowards.

I will reply to you this time, because your brazeness begs for a response.

On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Kurt Stele wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:12:35 -0800, Kimberley Ahlf
>  wrote:
> >I wanted to tell you all that I gotta go for a while, not that I will be
> >particularly missed, but because I wanted to make sure that if Kurt
> >Stele (Brian Smith?) ever comes out of hiding to address my criticism of
> >his ideas (or, heaven forbid, ever produce the many pieces of "evidence"
> >he has promised to provide) that my silence can be correctly attributed
> >to my no longer reading this newsgroup.  I'll be off on a project for a
> >while so I won't have the hours to spend in picking appart his illogic.
> You never supported your assertions that Hitler's goal was 1)  to
> destroy and enslave other races and 2)  that he was an aggressive
> threat to the U.S.    Despite endless equivocation and many hours of
> stylized fluff, you have yet to prove even your initial positions.

For the record, here is what has occurred in terms of the production of
evidence on the threads in question as of this date:

Evidence Ahlf has provided:

1) Quote from Hitler's _Mein Kampf_, which Stele denies being relevant
2) Quote from Hitler's 1922 speech, which Stele denies being reliable
3) Cited Roosevelt's committee to study atomic weaponry, which responded
   to an irrelevant challenge for proof from Stele, but when this proof
   was given Stele tried later to change the text of his challenge.
4) Cited Einstein'd letter warning Roosevelt of Germany's potential nukes.
   Stele ignored this evidence
5) Cited Hitler's conquest of France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, etc...
   to provide evidence of Hitler's known aggressive threat.
   Stele continues to belittle this evidence, insisting that these
   occupied countries were not conquests, but rather, German "outposts."
6) Cited Hitler's having declared war on the US prior to US
   declaration of war on Germany.  Stele denied that a declaration of war
   is a reliable indication of threat.  Ironically, in the very same post
   Stele *faulted* Britain and France for declaring war on Germany.

Evidence provide by Stele:

1) Reference to "Wannsee Protocol"
   No specific passage cited to support his assertion
2) Reference to "Giwer's posts 1995-96"
   No specific post cited to support his assertion
3) Reference to book by David Irving
   No specific passage cited to support his assertion
4) Promise to provide evidence to support assertions
   No date or criteria given for the production of promised evidence.

Just by the above record of evidence, it's obvious which party has
actively engaged in debate and which party has actively avoided it.
That's not to mention the instances in which Mr. Stele has attempted to
delete and alter the record of the debate in his reposts in order to
weaken my position, or the instance in which he denied having read
my post while inexplicably making reference to the content of my post.

Additionally, the entire thread in question was initiated by statements
made by Mr. Stele, statements which he declines to substantiate with
evidence of his own until I somehow satisfy him that I have answered all
of his challenges.  Mr. Stele has made numerous inflamatory assertions in
the course of this thread, but whenever challenged he consistently defers
the production of evidence until I produce evidence in support of my
positions.  This is a pattern of conduct that illustrates Mr. Stele's
complete unwillingness or inability to engage in honest debate.

> >Which reminds me:  There's some bad news for all of you 'deniers' out
> >there. I have it on good authority that Chuck Ferree is still in excellent
> >health, which means for some time into the future your lies will have to
> >contend with a man who was there when it happened, who saw the evidence of
> >the holocaust first hand; on many occassions and in many locations.  
> Chuck is unwittingly one of best activists for the revisionist side.

Then you'd be well advised to quit hurting your own cause by your
participation in this forum and leave it up to him.

> >You still have many years to go before your racist ideology can compete
> >freely against factual history; free of the burden of having to
> >explain-away the living witnesses like Chuck.
> >
> >Sorry.  :-)
> Sorry that that the Holocaust Lie is unravelling,

You and your brethren talk a lot about the imminent demise of the
holocaust history, but none of you are capable of making any kind of
rational case against the established historical facts.  Every argument
you make depends entirely on the fundamental acceptence of your racist
ideology and requisite belief in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy.  You
provide no evidence, you promise a lot of evidence, but you never provide
it.  To be a practicing 'denier' like yourself, one must be prepared not
only to deny historical facts, but also to deny one's own utter failings.

> despite the "silent
> treatment" enforced by the Jewish mass media to counter-evidence, and
> the cowardly and Orwellian criminalization of revisionism.   

Not in my country.  You're welcome to speak and reveal your idiocy until
the end of time while you're in America.

> Your turgid and insipid moralizing will simply have to find a new object
> for its mushy-headed sentimentality:  I would suggest the ethical
> treatment of animals. 

Indeed, that would be a fitting outgrowth of my advocacy of the ethical
treatment of human beings.  The scorn contained in your above statement is
far more revealing of you than it is of me.

> Kurt Stele

I can only speculate as to what excuse you're going to concoct this time
to explain why you suddenly responded to me, after one week of complete
silence, only after I announced that I was leaving.  You are a despicable
coward, Mr. Stele.  This central flaw of your character drives 
everything in you from your racist, neo-nazi ideology, all the way down to
your vacuous insults and squirming inability to back your statements with
facts.  You are long past long due for some serious introspection.

I *will* be leaving, Mr. Stele, so you will indeed get the last word here.
I can only hope that you will somehow change your pattern of conduct and
not use my absence as an opportunity to misrepresent what has transpired
in our exchanges.  I do not hold out much hope.


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