Archive/File: holocaust/usa/ihr raven.002r Last-Modified: 1995/01/11 Article 21212 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.trw.com!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan009.kaiwan.com!user From: email@example.com (Greg Raven) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Reply to 'Best Evidence' part 1 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 23:09:24 -0800 Organization: Institute for Historical Review Lines: 308 Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com Many months ago, when I first connected with alt.revisionism, I saw that here, as elsewhere, those who believe in and support traditional Holocaust extermination stories kept repeating over and over that the "Holocaust" is the best-documented event in history, and that there were mountains of evidence to prove that it (the "Holocaust") happened, just as we have been told for nearly 50 years. I, then, asked for the one or two best pieces of evidence that the Nazis had a plan or policy to exterminate the Jews in gas chambers. I specifically said that I do not "deny" the Holocaust. I specifically stated that I agree that some Jews suffered horribly during the Second World War, some solely because they were Jewish, and that some had died, from a variety of causes. However, I have reason to doubt the existence of the so-called homicidal gas chambers about which we hear so much. Therefore, I thought that those who say they have a mountain of evidence to support their claims would be ready, willing, and able to provide me with at least one piece of reliable evidence to support their contentions. I was wrong. Instead of solid evidence, I was deluged with personal attacks. My position was egregiously misstated and mischaracterized. I was offered any number of "testimonies," most of which have no basis in fact. But I was offered no solid evidence to support the existence of what would have to be the world's most horrific device of mass murder, the Nazi gas chamber. I have been waiting for months for this "best evidence" to be provided me. It has yet to appear. Typical of the response that I have received, however, is a post by Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein that claims to substantively establish once and for all that there were Nazi gas chambers. Although the "exterminationists" in alt.revisionism refuse to understand my question in spite of my repeated explanations, it really is quite simple. I am not asking for evidence of any or all Nazi wrongdoing. For the time being I am SPECIFICALLY interested in the gas chambers, for if there were Nazi gas chambers for the purposes of mass executions of Jews or anyone else, this alone would indicate that the Nazis meant to kill many, if not all, of the Jews they could. Therefore, it is of no use to talk about "eyewitnesses," chemical properties of the insecticide supposedly used in the mass exterminations, or anything else. First, we must locate a Nazi gas chamber. Everything else comes second. With this in mind, let us now turn to the Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein post in response to this simple challenge of mine. Instead of one or two best pieces of evidence, Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein have provided ten pieces of non-evidence. Referring to Message-ID: <1995Jan04.firstname.lastname@example.org>, dated Wed, 04 Jan 95 09:05:08 GMT, we find this: > On April 20th, Greg Raven posted a challenge. He asserted, without > evidence, that the Holocaust never happened - and he challenged those > of us who disagree to _prove_otherwise_! You can see that already this post is on shaky ground, as Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein misquote and mischaracterize my challenge. I NEVER SAID that "the Holocaust never happened." This is, however, a common ploy designed to portray Holocaust revisionists in an unfavorable light. > Greg Raven wrote: >First, I do not deny the Holocaust happened. Let me repeat that. I do not >deny the Holocaust happened. For the purposes of this discussion, I am >using a fairly generic definition of the word "Holocaust," which is "the >murder of six million Jews as a central act of state by the Nazis during >the Second World War, many in gas chambers." If anyone has a problem with >this definition, I invite you to provide your version. > >Second, here is what Holocaust revisionists REALLY say: The Jews of Europe >suffered a great tragedy before and during the Second World War. Many were >mistreated, and many died under horrific conditions. However, a) there is >no evidence that the Nazis had a plan or policy of exterminating the Jews, >b) there is no evidence that there were homicidal gas chambers for murder >Jews, and c) the figure of six million Jewish victims is an exaggeration. > >I imagine that some of you will take exception to at least some of these >statements. What I ask from those who do is simply this: Provide me with >what you think is the one or two best pieces of evidence that the Nazis had >a plan to exterminate millions of Jews in homicidal gas chambers. Once you >provide what you think is the best evidence, I will respond. > >You will note that I do not want long collages consisting of snippets of >speeches, fragments of documents, etc. I want one or two pieces of >evidence. I will not consider personal attacks, discussions of race, >discussions about the meta-meaning of Holocaust "denial," or other >non-substantive, off-topic posts to address the issue at hand. I look >forward to hearing from all who have something to say. > >P.S. I do not have a lot of time to put into this discussion, but I will do >the best I can. I hope you understand, and try not to get too surly with me >if I skip a day or two while I attempt to meet my many deadlines. Very well. Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein then write: > No reputable historian believes the claims in his fourth paragraph - that > much quickly becomes clear to anyone taking the time to research the > matter. The Holocaust, the deliberate murder of about six million Jews > along with about five million others, is a historical fact, as certain and > undeniable as World War II itself. Aside from McCarthy's unfounded assertion about what reputable historians believe, let us note in passing his definition of "Holocaust" as being the "deliberate murder" of millions of people. This would imply that McCarthy has 1) proof that there was a murder, 2) that the murder was deliberate, and 3) that six million Jews (and others) were the victims. In fact, he has no such thing. But we are interested in the gas chambers, so let us move on. > But the burden of proof is _his_. Reality does not need to be pinned down > - it's available, in as much detail as desired, to anyone with the time to > visit a library. Mr. Raven's claims, however, are at this point > impossibly, and perhaps deliberately, vague. > > Therefore, we pose the question as it should be. What we ask from him > (or anyone who denies the Holocaust) is simply this: provide us with what > he thinks are the one or two best pieces of evidence that the Nazis did > _not_ exterminate millions of people in homicidal gas chambers. Once he > provides what he thinks is the best evidence, we will respond. Here we see just how slippery that "mountain of evidence" is. Rather than respond in any substantive way, McCarthy merely asserts that his position is the correct one, that my challenge needn't be met, and that it is now his turn to ask me a question. We also note in passing that McCarthy asks me to prove a NEGATIVE, which is impossible. > In his efforts to whitewash Holocaust-denial, Mr. Raven has posted a > glaring contradiction, perhaps without even noticing that he's done so. > His third paragraph defines "Holocaust" as "the murder of six million Jews > as a central act of state by the Nazis during the Second World War, many > in gas chambers." (This definition will suffice, but we will concern > ourselves with _all_ the victims of the Nazi mass murderers - they took > the lives of about five million non-Jews, as well.) And he writes, twice, > "I do not deny the Holocaust happened." > > Then, in his fourth paragraph, he denies the Holocaust happened. He writes > that "there is no evidence that the Nazis had a plan or policy of > exterminating the Jews." He writes that "there is no evidence that there > were homicidal gas chambers for murder [sic] Jews." And he writes that > "the figure of six million Jewish victims is an exaggeration." > > One wonders how he will reconcile these two opposing viewpoints. No, one wonders why McCarthy has so inextricably bound up "gas chambers" with "Holocaust." Apparently, for McCarthy there can be no "Holocaust" without gas chambers, which means for him that none of the suffering of Jews who were evicted from their homes, shot in the Eastern territories, robbed, worked to death in labor camps, or otherwise mistreated is worth mentioning: those who did not die in a Nazi gas chamber are beneath his consideration. McCarthy is more of a "Holocaust deniar" than virtually all the revisionists I know, and I know most of them. We suspect that he would like us to believe that he does not deny the Holocaust - rather, that he merely has an "open mind" on the subject, and is simply waiting to see sufficient evidence either way. Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein then goes on a long rambling attack on me, misquoting and mischaracterizing in innumerable ways. But, finally, we do get to the meat of the matter, which is what I would have to assume is Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein's "best evidence" of the existence of the Nazi gas chambers. Remember, my request was for the one or two pieces of best evidence that the Nazis had a plan or policy to exterminate Jews in homicidal gas chambers. > Document one: > We begin with ... a speech delivered by Heinrich > Himmler. > > The speech is quite famous and its text may be found in many sources, > for example in the book _Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg > Military Tribunals_, published by the U.S. Government Printing Office, > 1949-1953. > > Speeches by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan. > October 4 and 6, 1943. > > I am referring here to the evacuation of the Jews, the elimination > of the Jewish people. This is one of the things that is easily said: > "The Jewish people are going to be exterminated," that's what every > party member says, "sure, it's in our program, elimination of the > Jews, extermination - it'll be done." And then they all come along, > the 80 million worthy Germans, and each one has his one decent Jew. > Of course, the others are swine, but this one, he is a first-rate > Jew. Of all those who talk like this, not one has seen it happen, > not one has had to go through with it. Most of you men know what > it is like to see 100 corpses side by side, or 500, or 1000. To have > stood fast through this and - except for cases of human weakness - to > have stayed decent, that has made us hard. > > I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and > never speak about. We come to the question: how is it with the women > and children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear > solution. That is to say, I do not consider myself justified in > eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed > - and allowing the children to grow up and avenge our sons and > grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to cause this > race to disappear from the earth. Not a pretty speech, to be sure, but there is not one mention of gas chambers, even obliquely. Reams could be written about what Himmler was referring to here, one of the purposes of my "simple" challenge was to narrow the discussion to that of the existence of the gas chambers. I have responded elsewhere regarding some of my thoughts of this Himmler speech, and I may return to it at some later date, but for now I must restrict myself to pointing out that there are no "gas chambers" here. > Document two: > > >From the book _Hitler and the Final Solution_ by G. Fleming, University of > California Press, 1984, p. 142. > > Report entitled "Resettlement of Jews" written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer > Gricksch for SS-Col. von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after > inspection of the Auschwitz camp on May 14-16, 1943. > > The unfit go to cellars in a large house which are entered from > outside. They go down five or six steps into a fairly long, > well-constructed and well-ventilated cellar area, which is lined with > benches to the left and right. It is brightly lit, and the benches > are numbered. The prisoners are told that they are to be cleansed > and disinfected for their new assignments. They must therefore > completely undress to be bathed. To avoid panic and to prevent > disturbances of any kind, they are instructed to arrange their > clothing neatly under their respective numbers, so that they will > be able to find their things again after their bath. Everything > proceeds in a perfectly orderly fashion. Then they pass through > a small corridor and enter a large cellar room which resembles a > shower bath. In this room are three large pillars, into which > certain materials can be lowered from outside the cellar room. When > three- to four-hundred people have been herded into this room, the > doors are shut, and containers filled with the substances are dropped > down into the pillars. As soon as the containers touch the base > of the pillars, they release particular substances that put the > people to sleep in one minute. A few minutes later, the door opens on > the other side, where the elevator is located.... Then the corpses > are loaded into elevators and brought up to the first floor, where > ten large crematoria are located. (Because fresh corpses burn > particularly well, only 50-100 lbs. of coke are needed for the whole > process.) The job itself is performed by Jewish prisoners, who never > step outside this camp again. Anyone interested in a complete treatment of this document are directed to "The Franke-Gricksch 'Resettlement Action Report': Anatomy of a Fabrication," by Brian Renk, which appeared in the Fall 1991 Journal of Historical Review, page 261. You may access a condensed version through my Web home page, the URL for which is http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr. Briefly, however, this "document" is nowhere signed by Franke-Gricksch, there is no original copy of this "document," and Franke-Gricksch mentions a "rail spur" that did not exist until six months AFTER his alleged visit. Is it mean to point out that this passage contains no mention of Jews? > Document three: > >> From the book _The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943_, edited by L.P. Lochner, > Doubleday & Co., 1948, p. 86. > > Goebbels' diary, February 14, 1942. > > World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as > Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to > clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish > sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that > has now overtaken them. Their destruction will now go hand in hand > with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process > with cold ruthlessness. > > March 26, 1942. > > Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the general government [Poland] are > now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one > and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain > of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent > of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent can > be used for forced labor. Again, not pretty words, but no mention of gas chambers. One could also quibble with the meaning assigned some of the words in this translation. For example, for Goebbels Jews are to suffer "destruction" the same as Germany's enemies. Does this mean that Goebbels meant to stuff every Soviet solder and Communist party member into a gas chamber? No. Does it even mean that Goebbels meant to kill every Soviet soldier and Communist party member? Extremely unlikely, and at any rate it was not his decision to make. Finally, I have a four-volume series of photographs of WWII published shortly after the war by the VFW, and in many of the photo captions they talk about "liquidating" the Germans. Do you suppose this mean the American Army was stuffing German soldiers into gas chambers? Or killing them to the last man? Probably not. (Continued in next post) -- Greg Raven mailto:email@example.com http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr ----------------------------------------------------- For free information about the IHR, write to: IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year) The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping Article 21213 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan009.kaiwan.com!user From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Greg Raven) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Reply to 'Best Evidence' part 2 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 23:10:17 -0800 Organization: Institute for Historical Review Lines: 321 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (Continued from previous post) > Document four: > > Hoess' memoirs describe the gassing process clearly and unambiguously in > many places. Here is one example. The memoirs were published, among > other places, in the book _Kommandant in Auschwitz_, by Rudolf Hoess, > Deutsche Verlagsanstalt, Stuttgart, 1958. English translation _Commandant > of Auschwitz: the Autobiography of Rudolf Hoess_, World Press, Cleveland, > 1959, p. 123f. > > On the railroad ramp the Jews, who up till then had been under the > supervision of the state police, were taken over by a squad from the > camp. They were led by the head of the detention camp, in two > detachments, to the bunker. That was what we called the extermination > installations. The luggage stayed on the ramp, from where it was > carried to the sorting area - called Kanada - between the buildings > of the DAW [weapons factory] and the courtyard. The Jews had to > undress near the bunker. They were told that they had to go into > what were called delousing rooms. All these rooms, five in all, were > filled simultaneously. The doors were hermetically sealed, and the > contents of the cans of gas were dropped in through the holes in the > ceiling provided for this purpose. > > Half an hour later the doors were opened; there were two in each > room. The corpses were removed and taken to the ditches on tip wagons > that ran on rails. Trucks carried the clothes to the sorting area. > All the work, including help in undressing, filling the bunker, > emptying the bunker, burying the corpses, as well as digging and > filling up the mass graves, was done by a special detail of Jews who > were housed separately and who, in accordance with Eichmann's > instructions, were also exterminated after each big operation. Even "Holocaust" authorities such as Deborah Lipstadt and Christopher Browning now acknowledge the revisionist position that Hoess was lying (the revisionists have discovered indications that he was tortured), as can be seen in the December 1993 Vanity Fair. There is more available on the Hoess business through my Web home page, URL http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr. To give just two examples, however, Hoess also claimed that 2.5 million were gassed at Auschwitz (a figure roughly double what most "Holocaust" historians now admit was the "true" figure), and spoke of a camp by the name of "Wolzek," which does not (and never did) exist. (See the IHR pamphlet "Auschwitz," by Mark Weber, on my Web site.) > Document five: > > Hoess not only wrote many pages detailing the extermination effort, he > testified about it under oath. This segment of that testimony is quoted > in _Documents on Nazism, 1919-1945_, edited by Jeremy Noakes and G. > Pridham, Viking Press, New York, 1974, pp. 490-1. > [text deleted] Need we say anything more about Hoess? > Document six: > >>From the book _The Good Old Days_, by Ernst Klee, W. Dressen, and V. Riess, > The Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 68. > > Ereignismlrdung UdSSR No. 128 [Operational Situation Report from the USSR > No. 128], November 3, 1941. > > In Kiev, difficulties that arose during the execution of a major > action of this type - particularly with regard to registration - were > overcome by the use of posters annoncing that all Jews were to report > for resettlement. Although it was initially thought that the action > would only involve 5,000 to 6,000 Jews, more than 30,000 Jews > reported, who as a result of extremely efficient organization still > believed they were going to be resettled right up untill the time > they were executed. > > Despite that fact that up to now a total of some 75,000 Jews have been > liquidated in this way, it has nevertheless become apparent that this > method will not provide a solution to the Jewish problem. Is it just me, or is there really no mention of gas chambers in this document? I'd could let it go at that, but in passing we should note in passing that "Holocaust" historians claim the Einsatzgruppen were given the task of wiping out Jews in the Eastern territories (this is a fragment from a report by Einsatzgruppe C). Isn't it odd that the various Einsatzgruppen units submitted 127 previous reports, in which they should have discussed wiping out the Jews (given that this allegedly was their task), yet it is not until the 128th such report, over four months after the first report, is the first report in which Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein find something incriminating? > Document seven: > >>From the book _The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of > Europe, 1939-1945_, by G. Reitlinger and T. Yosellof, South Brunswick, > 1968. > > Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich, > January 31, 1942. > > The complete removal of Jewry from the eastern territories has been > substantially attained, with the exception of white Russia, as a > result of the execution up to the present time of 229,052 Jews. Rather like the "body counts" of our soldiers in Vietnam, and just as accurate ... but still no gas chambers. Remember, I agree that some Jews died simply because they were Jews. > Document eight: > >>From the book _Trente-quatre mois dans les camps de concentration_ > (Thirty-four months in the concentration camps), by Dr. Andre' Lettich, L'Union Cooperative, Tours, 1946. Translation appears in _Nazi Mass > Murder_, by Eugen Kogon, H. Langbein, and A. Rueckerl, > Yale University Press, New Haven and London, 1993, pp. 150-151. > > Up to the end of January 1943 there were no crematory ovens at > Birkenau. In the middle of a little birch wood, about two > kilometers from the camp, was a peaceful-looking cottage in which > a Polish family, expelled or murdered, had lived. For a long time > this cottage had been used as a gas chamber. > > More than five hundred meters from it were two barracks: the men > were grouped on one side, the women on the other. Very politely, > very amiably, a little speech was made to them. "You've arrived > after a trip; you're dirty; you're going to have a bath. Undress > quickly!" Towels and soap were distributed, and then the brutes > revealed themselves in their true colors: with heavy blows this > human herd, these men and women, were driven naked, winter or > summer, across the hundred or so meters that separated them from > the "shower room." Above the entrance door was written "Brausebad" > [showers]. Shower heads could even be seen on the ceiling; they > were cemented in, but water never flowed from them. > > These poor innocents were piled up, packed against one another, > and it was then that panic began: they finally understood what > fate awaited them. But blows with clubs and revolver shots quickly > calmed things down, and all finally penetrated this mortal chamber. > The doors were closed and, ten minutes later, the temperature had > risen high enough for the hydrocyanic acid to volatize--it was with > hydrocyanic acid that the condemned were gassed. It was Zyklon B, > diatomite impregnated with a 20 percent solution of hydrocyanic > acid, that the German barbarians used. > > Then SS-Unterschardfuehrer Moll dropped the gas through a little > window. The cries that could be heard were frightening, but after > a few moments complete silence reigned. Twenty to twenty-five > minutes later the windows and doors were opened to air the room, and > the corpses were immediately thrown into ditches, where they were > burned. Another "testimony," but at least this one deals with gas chambers! Or does it? Apparently, this "peaceful-looking cottage" no longer exists, or the cottage itself would be introduced into evidence. (Which would you rather have, endless testimonies about flying saucers, or one real, honest-to-gosh flying saucer to examine for yourself?) This remarkable cottage has shower heads in the ceiling, and "peaceful-looking" though it may be, at some point there are those in the group that recognize it for what it really is, a homical gas chamber for mass gassings, something that no one has ever seen before (or since!). Why a "peaceful-looking cottage" would be recognized as something that none of them had ever seen is not mentioned in this "testimony." The characteristics of this cottage continue to amaze, as it is so well insulated that it takes only ten minutes for the naked, shivering people inside to warm the interior temperature to nearly 80 degrees F, and this in the dead of the brutal Polish winter! This remarkable cottage also has windows (in a gas chamber?), through which an SS man drops the Zyklon B. These are very special windows, apparently, because those within the cottage cannot break them, nor climb out of them. It is a pity that this cottage did not survive so we could examine it today. Doubtless we could all learn something about the extraordinary construction techniques employed by the Germans. It should not have been difficult to find: all you have to do is look for it next to the magical ditches into which you can through human bodies and have them burn, even though corpses require a lot of energy to cremate, and in a ditch there would be a decided scarcity of oxygen to fuel a blaze of whatever origin. But then, this document fails to mention Jews, so perhaps the entire thing is moot? > Document nine: > > Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz > ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, > NY, 1988, p. 256-268] > 2 September 1942 > 3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems > to me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call > Auschwitz the extermination camp for nothing! > 5 September 1942 > In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's > concentration camp (muselmans); the most dreadful of horrors. > Hschf. Thilo -- army doctor -- was right when he said to me this > is the 'anus mundi'. In the evening towards 8.00 attended > another Sonderaktion from Holland. > 10 October 1942 > Extracted and fixed fresh live material from liver, spleen and > pancreas... > 12 October 1942 > Second inoculation against typhus, later on in the evening severe > generalized reaction (fever). Despite this in the night attended > a further Sonderaktion from Holland (1,600 persons). Ghastly > scenes in front of the last bunker! That was the 10th > Sonderaktion. > 13 November 1942 > Extracted fresh live material (liver, spleen and pancreas) from a > previously photographed, severely atrophied Jewish prisoner aged > eighteen. Fixed as always, liver and spleen in Carnoy and > pancreas in Zenker (Prisoner No. 68,030). Kremer's diary and other utterances have been thoroughly treated by Dr. Robert Faurisson in "Confessions of SS Men who were at Auschwitz," in the Summer 1981 (Volume 2, number 2) issue of The Journal of Historical Review. Briefly, there is no mention of a gas chamber here, and the only mention of a Jew has nothing to do with extermination. It is worth noting in passing that Kramer is misquoted in the very first excerpt given. A much better translation would be: quote: 2 September 1942: This morning, at 3 o'clock, I was present OUTSIDE for the first time at a SPECIAL ACTION. Compared to that, Dante's Inferno appears TO ME ALMOST LIKE a comedy. It is not without reason that Auschwitz is called THE camp of THE ANNIHILATION! end quote I have place in capital letters those words and phrases that are either missing or mistranslated in the version posted above. Clearly, mass homicidal gassings are not outdoor events. Not so clear from these passages, but discernable from other evidence is the fact that the "annihilation" about which Kremer is speaking is in fact the terrible typhus epidemic sweeping Auschwitz at that time. For example, in a letter of 21 October 1942 that Dr. Kremer had sent a friend, he wrote: quote: I don't really know for certain, but I expect, however, that I'll be able to be in Muenster before 1 December, and thus finally turn my back on this hell of Auschwitz where, in addition to the typhoid, and so on, typhus has once again broken out strongly ... end quote Last and least, > Document ten: > >>From Dr. Kremer's testimony regarding his diary, published in _The Good > Old Days_, by Ernst Klee, W. Dressen, and V. Riess, The Free Press, New > York, 1988, p. 258. > > I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups > of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how big > the group was. When I got close to the bunker I saw them sitting > on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were wearing > worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing hut but > made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the behavior of > these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited them, as they > begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their lives. However, > they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed. As an anatomist I > have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had a lot of experience > with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that day was like nothing I had > ever seen before. Still completely shocked by what I had seen I wrote > on my diary on 5 September 1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. > Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was right when he said to me today that this > is the 'anus mundi', the anal orifice of the world". I used this > image because I could not imagine anything more disgusting and > horrific. There are many interesting things about this "testimony," but one of the most fascinating to me is that we have what Kremer wrote at the time, which is not damning, and then we have what he said in the Polish (Communist) court procedings. I happen not to trust Communist sources or their show trials. Exterminationists Harmon/Keren/McCarthy/McVay/Stein appear not to share my reluctance about accepting tainted sources. Beyond that, there are many nuances involved in understanding this "testimony." I will quote again from Robert Faurisson: quote: I said that Professor Kremer, appearing before the tribunal in Muenster (Westphalia) in 1960, had confirmed the confession that Communist examining magistrate Jan Sehn (of Jewish origin?) had obtained from him in 1947 and that at the Frankfurt Trial (1963-1965) he had been called as a prosecution witness against his compatriots. What I did not yet know in 1980 and what I learned later is the reason why the poor man, after ten years of prison in Poland (1947-1957) and after returning to his city of M|nster, had gone before a German tribunal. I discovered the reason while reading, in its French Version, the Anthologie d'Auschwitz (blue), Volume 1, Part 1, Warsaw, 1969, pages 239 to 261. The reason is that after his return to M|nster in 1957, Kremer began to protest against the treatment that he had undergone at the hands of the Polish courts ... ... Kremer, as a matter of fact, had complained that in Poland "only hatred was entitled to give its opinion" (page 240). Better than that, we learn, thanks to that Communist publication, that after his return to M|nster Kremer retracted his confessions ... end quote (Source: "Revisionism on trial in France: 1979-1983," JHR, Summer 1985, p. 133-181.) Conclusion: If you want to believe the "Holocaust" happened, fine. If you want to hate Germans for occurences -- real or imagined -- that happened 50 years ago, that is your problem. But the gas chamber lie must go, just as have other lies about Germany, Germans, and the "Holocaust" such as the "human soap" lie and countless others. There will still be more than enough tragedy to go around, and telling the truth, telling what really happened, is a better way of honoring those who suffered than is telling lies and inventing other "victims." -- Greg Raven mailto:email@example.com http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr ----------------------------------------------------- For free information about the IHR, write to: IHR, P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 Journal of Historical Review, $40 (6 issues per year) The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Arthur Butz, $10 + $2 shipping
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