The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/raven.greg/raven-refuses-links

Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish,soc.history
Subject: An Open Letter to Greg Raven (Round 6)

Archive/File: pub/people/r/raven.greg/raven-refuses-links
Last-Modified: 1995/12/25
First Published: 1995/08/24

Mr. Raven:

On August 8, 1995, I challenged you to provide links from the
IHR web site to my Nizkor site. My challenge began with the
following paragraph:

 As President and Chief Executive Officer of the Institute for
 Historical Review, Mr. Raven, you operate the IHR's WWW
 site,, as a focalpoint for the
 dissemination of neo-Nazi Holocaust denial propaganda.

Your response to that paragraph follows:

   "Just about everything about this paragraph, the first in 
   McVay╣s 'open letter,' is inaccurate. To save space, I will 
   deal only with the substantive falsehoods.

   First, I am not president and/or CEO of the Institute for 
   Historical Review, as the IHR has no president and/or CEO."
   (Raven, "Reply")

Mr. Raven, perhaps you will explain the following information,
which, I am advised, appeared in the July, 1995 "IHR Update,
Number 2 (July 1995)," on page 2, in an article called "Thank
you, Tom:"

   "In March the corporate Board of Directors appointed 
   Mark Weber as the new IHR Director, and Greg Raven as 
   the new chief executive officer and corporate President."

Is this citation correct, Mr. Raven? If not, why does an
official publication of the IHR include this statement, when
you claim that "...the IHR has no president and/or CEO?"

According to a nexis search of the corporate registration, 
Thomas J Marcellus was listed as _president_ as of 2/21/95,
and the office was registered at: 1650 Babcock, Costa Mesa, 
California, 92627. Was that information correct, Mr. Raven,
as of February 21, 1995, or is it incorrect? If it is correct,
please explain why you stated: "...the IHR has no president 
and/or CEO?" If it is incorrect, please explain why incorrect
data (i.e. that the IHR has a president) was provided to the
corporate registrar.

According to Articles of Amendment filed with the Office of
the Secretary of State of Texas on July 10, 1995, for the
Legion for the Survival of Freedom," you are the President and
Mark Weber is the Secretary. At the time you signed that
document, the "principle and normal place of business of the
corporation is in Orange County, California," where the IHR is
located. A May 15, 1995 article in the Los Angeles Times (A3)
describes the Legion as the "parent company" of the IHR. 
Is that correct, Mr. Raven?

Also, I direct your attention to the words of Ernst Zuendel,
who, in his Power Letter #1, says:

   "We want to thank Greg Raven - new head of the IHR - 
   for allowing us to be on his Website on a temporary 


Is Mr. Zuendel lying, Mr. Raven?

With regard to my statement that you operate the IHR's Web
site, you replied:

   "Second, while it is true that I make available some IHR 
   material on the World Wide Web, I do so not in my official 
   capacity with the IHR, but rather I do it on my own time, 
   and I finance it out of my own monies." (Ibid.)

Out of respect for Jamie McCarthy's position, I, too, will
accept your word that the IHR does not contribute to the cost
of maintaining your site, and drop the matter.

Many of us who oppose the viewpoint you represent within your
Web pages have asked you repeatedly to provide links from the
IHR's site to the Nizkor Project. (I first did that on the
28th. of May, 1995, and I believe that others began making
this request of you long before that.)

We have pointed out, repeatedly, that the Nizkor Web
provides, and has _always_ provided, a link to your site.

We have explained that we believe in presenting all facets of
the issue of the Holocaust, and the neo-Nazi-inspired attempts
to trivialize it. Mr. Raven, although you _claim_ to
desire "open debate" on "both sides of the story," quite
clearly you do not; if you did, you would provide links to _all_
Holocaust-related sites.

I don't think you have the will to do it, Mr. Raven. I think
that you and your colleagues know full well that your
propaganda is so full of holes that it cannot withstand the
clear light of day, and I think that you are afraid to expose
your Web visitors to opposing points of view. 

Is that true, Mr. Raven? Are you so lacking the courage of
conviction that you are _afraid_ to present opposing
views, and let your Web visitors make up their own minds?

Web tourists are invited to peruse:

...which will maintain the growing archive of requests you
continue to ignore, as well as links to spots on your own Web,
where you and your colleagues offer hypocritical calls for
"open debate": 

  "Let this issue be settled as all great historical 
   controversies are resolved: through free inquiry and open 
   debate in our journals, newspapers and classrooms."


Since you failed to respond to this section of my original
letter, I think it bears repeating:

 Your refusal to provide your Web users with opposing
 positions makes it appear, to them and me, that you fear 
 "free inquiry" there. Is that the case, Mr. Raven, or were you
 being cynically hypocritical when you offered the following:

   "The cause of international understanding and world peace 
   is best served by free discussion and open debate of 
   significant historical issues, including the emotion-laden 
   Holocaust story."


 Well, Mr. Raven? Are these titles on the IHR's web nothing
 more than a contemptuous display of smoke and mirrors?


The Holocaust: Let's Hear Both Sides

One-Sided 'Holocaustomania'

Let Both Sides Be Heard

" Nizkor has responded to the IHR's "66 Questions & Answers" tract, as URL Mr. Raven, and we think that it is important to, as your menus suggest, hear both sides. That's why our "66 Q&A" page links to your site, and to Mr. Zundel's, pointing to the versions of the tract being offered. We have done this because we _do_ believe in exploring all of the issues, and we have no doubt where that will lead. In your response to my first open letter, Mr. Raven, you included the following assertion with regard to Jamie McCarthy's Web pages: "I have not visited McCarthy╣s Web site in some time, i but the last time I did, one of the first things I read was a misquote of something I wrote, that McCarthy further mischaracterized in order to cast aspersions on me." (Ibid.) ...and this comment about the Nizkor Web and archives: "Thus, although McVay attempts to present himself as being interested in a free exchange of positions, this posting clearly shows that he is more inclined to personal attacks on revisionists. In his open letter, he even includes a URL (Universal Resource Locator -- a form of Internet address) for a file that can only be considered a personal attack on me, and visitors to his site will find other files personally (and inaccurately) attacking me and others." (Ibid.) In the first instance, Mr. McCarthy has repeatedly demanded that you cite the specific "misquote of something" you wrote, and yet you, having accused him of deliberate misrepresentation of your words, have thus far failed to provide evidence of the truth of your accusation. For one who prattles about "casting aspersions" on others Mr. Raven, you seem strangely reluctant to prove your case by providing a URL for the offending text. Why is that, Mr. Raven? Could it be that you are being less than honest? Could it be that no such misrepresentation exists on Mr. McCarthy's Web pages? In the second instance, you note that I include a URL for a file which you consider a personal attack upon yourself. That file simply notes your own hypocritical calls for "hearing both sides of the story," and asks the rhetorical question "What is he afraid of?" The file also includes the flat assertion that files contained on your site contain lies about the Holocaust, which is factually correct. (On July 19, 1995, Jamie McCarthy noted 15 separate falsehoods on Mr. Raven's web pages, providing both URL's and complete context; on August 4th. Mr. McCarthy followed-up with quick explanations as to why each was false. It goes without saying that Mr. Raven has not defended these 15 falsehoods.) Perhaps, Mr. Raven, instead of avoiding the matter before us here - that is, your refusal to provide links to sites offering views in opposition to yours - you should focus your attentions directly on the issue. I await your response, Mr. Raven, and IHR links to those who oppose you. Ken McVay Work Cited Raven, greg. UseNet alt.revisionism. Subject: "My Reply to Ken McVay," August 30, 1995. Message-ID:

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