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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/l/lagace.ivan/zundel-trial

From Mon Aug 21 00:59:06 PDT 1995
Article: 32220 of alt.revisionism
From: (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Daniel Keren - a Holocaust Fundamentalist?
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:58:49 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <4187p2$>
References: <40th2v$>  <410bcj$>  <416l1g$> <416ou8$> <416u6n$>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 (Marc Lemire) wrote:

[After I said:]
>>And what published report are you referring to when you say a corpse
>>would explode?

>I am refering to the Calgary Crematorium expert that testified at the Zundel 
>trial under oath.  I am not sure on the exact spelling of his name.  When I 
>get it, i'll pass it on to you.

Don't bother. It was Ivan Lagace. Lagace testified that the Auschwitz
crematoria could not have burnt as many bodies as were burnt at
Auschwitz, but he based his calculations on the capacity of an
ordinary commercial funerary crematorium not on the industrial-scale
body incinerators specially designed for Auschwitz-Birkenau.

There are two things I have been meaning to investigate about Lagace's
testimony. The first is whether the reports of 10, 12, and 20 thousand
bodies per day referred to in Christie's questions to Lagace actually
referred to accounts of pit burning. The second is about who Ivan
Lagace is; it strikes me as curious that Christie had to go all the
way to Calgary to get a crematory expert 2,000 miles away from Toronto
where the trial was held. Surely there are crematoria in Toronto. But
then again it may simply turn out that no one between Toronto and
Calgary was willing to testify on Zuendel's behalf. It would not be
very good for business to testify on behalf of a Nazi apologist.

>>By the way, you *are* right about the effects of running the
>>crematoria full blast for long periods--some of them did break down
>>from heat fractures in the bricks which necessitated the pit burnings
>>especially when the Hungarian transports started to arrive. I wonder
>>how long they ran the Kremas--which were rated by Jahrling, in a memo
>>to Kammler, at being capable of incinerating 4700+ bodies per
>>day--before they began to break down. That was 4700+ for all 52
>>retorts combined, not each. That was *rated* capacity, not actual. In
>>case you are confused on these points.
>>Do you know how long, Marc?

>What camp are you talking about?  And what Crema?

The camp was Auschwitz-Birkenau. The "Crema" was Kremas I-V, 52
retorts. Krema IV was reporting frequent breakdowns by 1944.

>>Here's another question you might know the answer to. Why did the SS
>>have 52 crematory retorts with a capacity they *believed* was above
>>4700+ per day (or 141,000+ per month) for a camp with a population of

>1st of all, what camp are you talking about and where are you getting the 
>information that the SS believed this?

The information comes from a memo from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to
SS-Brigadefuehrer Generalmajor Kammler dated 25 June 1943. Jahrling
reports to Kammler that the capacity of all 52 retorts combined was
4756 bodies per day. Hans Kammler was the chief of the construction
division of the Economic-Administrative Main Office of the SS. 

If you multiply 4700 by 30 you get 141,000. So the question remains
that, whether or not the Kremas actually could burn 4700+ bodies per
day, the SS believed they could as of June 25, 1943. So why did the SS
construct crematoria that they believed could cremate 141,000+ bodies
per month for a camp with a population of 50,000?

A .gif copy of the Jahrling-Kammler memo is available at the following


Though by far the best site for Holocaust gifs is:

 John Morris                               
 at University of Alberta     
 The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
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