Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!jik.kamens.brookline.ma.us!jik From: email@example.com (Jonathan Kamens) Newsgroups: bc.general,calgary.general,edm.general,ott.general,van.general,ne.general,winnipeg.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada Subject: tyler's anti-Semitic screeds about Kosher certification Followup-To: poster Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Organization: jik's Linux box Lines: 79 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org (Jonathan Kamens) Message-ID:
NNTP-Posting-Host: jik-0.dsl.speakeasy.net X-Trace: jik.kamens.brookline.ma.us 1010779429 9601 126.96.36.199 (11 Jan 2002 20:03:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: email@example.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:03:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: xrn 9.03-beta-12 Xref: hub.org bc.general:124349 calgary.general:101300 edm.general:120583 ott.general:109371 van.general:161254 ne.general:89183 winnipeg.general:34038 can.general:237090 soc.culture.canada:295859 I apologize for the off-topic nature of this posting, but I feel compelled to correct the lies about Kosher certification being spread by "firstname.lastname@example.org". I have directed followups to me to spare the readers of these newsgroups from being subject to any more of this discussion. I will not post any more messages on this topic; I refuse to be provoked into debate with an anti-Semitic liar. I have refrained from posting this message to soc.culture.jewish, whose readers are already aware of the information I am presenting; or alt.revisionism, alt.conspiracy, and alt.usenet.kooks, whose readers are beyond hope in any case. Of course, the fact that tyler has seen fit to post his articles in those groups says something about how much stock you should place in what he writes. Incidentally, readers who have not seen all of tyler's postings might want to consider, when deciding whether to take him seriously, comments such as these which have appeared in some of his postings: "I don't want my pee pee mutilated." (i.e., Jewish ritual circumcision is "mutilation"); "Well, considering the size of a semitic nose, that is a tidy sum indeed... :)"; "Do you have information on how Council of Orthodox Rabbis kosher-certification earnings are distributed, as for example what proportion of them goes toward supporting the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by the State of Israel..."; "As a zionist, you are a racist and apply racist techniques to my posts rather than address the issue."; "If there is indeed a science of denial then zionists would be the first Nobel winners."; "Pig meat is not allowed because that would be cannibalism. (a joke)"; "The Ferengi of the Star Treck series were modelled after orthodox rabbinical organization where profit was god."; "You're sorry? If your dad ever heard about your stupidity he'd take the torah to your ass. What a moron. Are all zionists this stupid?". Now, some facts about Kosher certification: 1) Any manufacturer who does not wish to pay for Kosher certification does not have to. It's a free market. Clearly, manufacturers have determined that the cost of paying for certification is less than the benefit of doing so (i.e., they make more money from sales to Kosher-observing Jews than they pay to obtain certification). 2) Any consumer who does not wish to buy foods with Kosher certification does not have to. It's a free market. 3) The percentage of the price of a Kosher product that is attributable to the cost of Kosher certification is so miniscule as to be virtually unnoticeable. In fact, the price paid by the consumer for a product can sometimes *go down* when the product is certified Kosher, because of the increased market that certification provides -- increased market for a product means lower per-item manufacturing cost. 4) Some non-food products have Kosher certification because they come into contact with food or food-preparation surfaces. For example, it is not surprising that aluminum foil is certified Kosher, considering that at least at one time, the rollers and such used to produce aluminum foil were sometimes lubricated with lard or other animal products. 5) The organizations which do Kosher certification charge money for it because (a) they wouldn't be able to do it otherwise and (b) the companies which desire Kosher certification are willing to pay for it as a cost of doing business (see points (1) and (3) above). There is nothing wrong with charging money for a "religious practice." Are you saying that the companies which produce communion wafers for churches should not be allowed to charge money for them? 6) In fact, the extra cost required for Kosher food preparation *is* trivial in the vast majority of cases. In fact, there is, in the vast majority of cases, *no* extra cost required to prepare food in a Kosher manner -- the certification is simply a manner of ensuring that all ingredients are Kosher and no non-Kosher food is brought into the factory doing the manufacturing. Rarely do companies producing Kosher food have to "pay extra for equipment and methods of food preparation." It is certainly true that Kosher meat and cheese are significantly more expensive than non-Kosher meet and cheese, but guess what -- if you don't keep Kosher, you almost never purchase products containing Kosher meat and cheese, because the non-Kosher varieties are better and cheaper! The vast majority of Kosher-certified products purchased by people who do not keep Kosher contain no meat or cheese products.
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