The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: miscellany/holocaus/log9304

From mala!UICVM.UIC.EDU!LISTSERV Wed Nov 17 12:18:26 1993
X-Delivered: at request of kmcvay on oneb
Received: by (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.33)
	id ; Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:18 PST
Received: by (DECUS UUCP ///2.0/);
          Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:00:30 PST
Received: from UICVM.UIC.EDU by MALINS.MALA.BC.CA (MX V3.3 VAX) with SMTP; Wed,
          17 Nov 1993 11:58:17 PST
          id 8661; Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:56:47 CST
          (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7760; Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:32:52 -0600
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:32:49 -0600
From: BITNET list server at UICVM (1.7f) 
Subject: File: "HOLOCAUS LOG9304"
To: Ken McVay 
Status: O

Date:         Fri, 2 Apr 1993 16:08:57 PST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Are we awake yet?

Thought I'd see if this channel's open yet :-)

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Fri, 2 Apr 1993 20:52:36 PST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      New home for Holocaust List

As many of you have discovered, we have a new home, and new address, for the
Holocaust mailing list.

Please address your HLIST mail to HOLOCAUS@UICVM.BITNET from now on.

It would appear to be time for one of the chaps from UI to explain the new
list to everyone - I'd like an announcement I can post to appropriate

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Sat, 3 Apr 1993 19:03:07 CST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Richard Jensen 
Subject:      H-Net plans for HOLOCAUS

    HOLOCAUS has absorbed Ken McVay's HLIST and become part of
    the stable of lists at the University of Illinois, Chicago.
    The H-Net program, sponsored by the History department at
    UIC, has an ambitious plan for training historians across
    the country in more effective use of electronic
    communications. (Details of the H-Net plan are available on
    request from Richard Jensen, the director, at u08946@uicvm
         H-Net will keep all the material that made HLIST so
    useful, and will stress as well some new directions:
    1. The tone and target audience will continue to be scholarly.
    2. H-Net is now setting up an international board of editors to
       guide HOLOCAUS policy and to help stimulate contributions.
    3. The coverage of the list will include the Holocaust itself,
       and closely related topics like anti-semitism, and Jewish
       history in the 1930s and 1940s, as well as closely related
       themes in the history of WW2, Germany, and international
    4. We are especially interested in reaching college teachers of
       history who already have, or plan to teach courses on the
       Holocaust.  In 1991-92, there were 265 college faculty in
       the US and Canada teaching courses on the Holocaust (154 in
       History departments, 67 in Religion, and 46 in Literature.)
       A much larger number of professors teach units on the
       Holocaust in courses on Jewish history (taught by 273
       faculty) and World War II (taught by 373), not to mention
       many other possible courses.  Most of these professors own
       PCs, but do not use them for email.  We hope our list will
       be one inducement to go on line.  HOLOCAUS will therefore
       actively solicit syllabi, reading lists, termpaper guides,
       ideas on films and slides, and tips and comments that will
       be of use to the teacher who wants to add a single lecture,
       or an entire course.
    5. We are hoping to hire a U of Illinois graduate student to
       moderate the list.  The moderator will solicit postings (by
       email, phone and even by US mail), will assist people in
       subscribing and setting up options, will handle routine
       inquiries, and will consolidate some postings so that
       subscribers do not have their mailboxes flooded by scores of
       short messages. (Many computer center have strict limits on
       mail flows, and we do not want to wear out our welcome.) The
       moderator will also solicit and post newsletter type
       information (calls for conferences, for example, or listings
       of sessions at conventions.) It may prove feasible to
       commission book and article reviews, and to post book
       announcements from publishers.  Anyone with suggestions
       about what HOLOCAUS can and might do is invited to send in
       the ideas.
    6. H-Net sees moderated lists as a new mode of scholarly
       communication; they have enormous potential for putting in
       touch historians from across the world.  Our first list on
       urban history, H-URBAN@UICVM, recently started up with Wendy
       Plotkin the moderator.  H-WOMEN is in the works, with
       discussions underway about other possibilities like Ethnic,
       Labor, and US South.  It is an honor to be able to carry
       HOLOCAUS and continue the fine tradition Ken McVay began.
       Richard Jensen, director of H-Net  u08946@uicvm
Date:         Sat, 3 Apr 1993 19:31:57 PST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Projects

Now that we're all back together again, it's time to look at some serious
project work.

First, now that we have an academic home, I would like to seriously address
the IHR Review stuff posted by Gannon regarding the Leuchter Report. In
particular, I'd like to see serious chemical analysis of their response to
Pressac et al. If you are interested in pursuing this one, request LEUCHTER
IHRV12N4 from my server, and let me know who is doing the work on the
report, and keep me posted as the project progresses. The results should be
worked in to the Leuchter FAQ.

Why bother? Because the review Gannon posted will appear again and again to
refute Prussac, and it needs point-by-point refutation. Once we have that,
our FAQ will be far more valuable than it is now.

Second, the next FAQ - I've settled on DACHAU for two reasons. First,
because it was not a 'death camp' in the sense the Reinhard Camps and
Auschwitz were, and second, because it was the scene of a great deal of
medical experiementation, and the Dachau report, in conjunction with the
Medical section of the Auschwitz FAQ, will spawn a Medical Experimentation

I haven't had enough time to get serious about Dachau yet, and am now
calling for material which can be archived towards the day when I do have
time, or someone on the list takes on the editorial job and does it for me.

Sections can be taken on for those without time to do it all - Medical
Experiments, Staff and Administration, victim data, etc. can all be dealt
with separately, and then brought together to complete the FAQ.

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Tue, 6 Apr 1993 08:21:05 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Re: Are we awake yet? (fwd)

You wrote:
>From mala!!jginther Tue Apr  6 03:02:22 1993
X-Delivered: at request of kmcvay on oneb
From: (James Ginther)
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Are we awake yet?
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 23:03:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: <>; from "Ken McVay" at Apr 2,
          93 4:08 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Thought I'd see if this channel's open yet :-)
> --
> The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
>      (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
>   Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
> with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac

Now wait a minute, does this mean HLIST may live on?  Ken, can you
provide details? Is this the new e-mail address for HLIST?


[The list does indeed live on, thanks to the good folks in the History
Department at the University of Illinois. I'm still having some problems
forwarding mail back to the list, but they should work themselves out in due
course. knm]


James R. Ginther                    (*-
Centre for Medieval Studies                    "Ubi es?"
University of Toronto
                                                      - God        -*)
If I had an opinion that counted, it could only be my own.

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Tue, 6 Apr 1993 08:49:25 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      no subject (file transmission)

Xref: oneb alt.revisionism:1653 soc.culture.jewish:25502
From: (Nigel Allen)
Subject: U.S. National Archives Exhibition Observes Days of Remembrance
Organization: R-node Public Access Unix - 1 416 249 5366
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 02:00:13 GMT
Message-ID: <>
Lines: 48

Here is a press release from the U.S. National Archives.

 National Archives Exhibition Observes Days of Remembrance
 To: National Desk
 Contact: National Archives Press Office, 202-501-5525

   WASHINGTON, April 5  -- To observe the Days of
Remembrance, commemorating the Holocaust, and to honor the opening
of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., the
National Archives will exhibit a document from the Nuremberg
War Crime Trials in the Rotunda beginning April 16.
   The exhibition, which is free and open to the public, will
be on display through May 16.
   The display consists of three items: the handwritten notes,
the typed transcript and the official translation of a speech
delivered by Heinrich Himmler, chief of German police (SS), to
his generals on Oct. 4, 1943.  These items reveal the "ultra
secret" policy of the Third Reich in an extremely rare written
reference to "Ausrottung", or extermination, of Jews.
   During the 12 years of the Third Reich, government policies
incorporated Nazi concepts of racial purity.  As a result of
these policies, the Jews of Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe were
subjected to discrimination, loss of citizenship, loss of
property, exile and near extermination.
  The genocidal plan, Adolf Hitler's "final solution of the
Jewish question," required the assembly and transportation of
Jewish people from all corners of Europe to extermination sites
in occupied Poland.  Himmler was responsible for overseeing this
policy of the Third Reich.  On Oct. 4, 1943, he spoke to more
than 100 SS generals in Posen, Poland, about the progress of the
war.  One of the subjects he addressed was the "evacuation" of
Jews.  In his handwritten notes Himmler used the word
"Judenevakuierung", meaning evacuation of Jews.  The typed
transcript of the speech, showing the words he actually spoke,
defines "evacuation" as a euphemism for "Ausrottung", or
   These documents, part of the National Archives Record Group
238, are from the extensive collection of Nuremberg Trial records
at the National Archives.  Assembled as records for the
prosecution of high-level Nazi officials in the war crimes trials
at Nuremberg, they have been used extensively to write histories
of the Holocaust.
   For additional press information about the commemorative
exhibition contact the National Archives Public Affairs staff at
Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Date:         Wed, 7 Apr 1993 16:46:46 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      LUFTL Report

Gannon's latest - your comments appreciated:

>From _The Journal of Historical Review_, Vol. 12, Number 4 (Winter 1992-93):

                            The Luftl Report

                  An Austrian Engineer's Report on the
               "Gas Chambers" of Auschwitz and Mauthausen

                              WALTER LUFTL

In March 1992, a prominent Austrian engineer made headlines when a report
he had written about alleged German wartime gas chambers was made public.
Walter Luftl concluded in his controversial report, "Holocaust: Belief and
Facts," that the well-known stories of mass extermination of Jews in gas
chambers at the wartime camps of Auschwitz and Mauthausen are impossible
for technical reasons and because they are incompatible with observable
laws of nature.  Luftl further characterized the often-repeated stories of
Jews being gassed with diesel engine exhaust (at Treblinka, for example) as
a sheer impossibility.  (See the IHR _Newsletter_, April 1992, p. 6.)

  Luftl, 59, is a court-recognized expert engineer and heads a large
engineering firm in Vienna.  On the basis of a well-established reputation
as a particularly precise and exact specialist, he was chosen to serve as
president of the Austrian Engineers Chamber (Bundes-Ingenieurkammer), a
professional association of 4,000 members.

  In spite of his reputation, he was obliged to resign as president of the
engineers' association in the uproar that followed news reports about his
iconoclastic report.  A leading official of the governing People's Party
expressed fear that Luftl's report could harm Austria's image abroad.

  A few days later, Austrian police raided Luftl's residence, turning it
inside out in a "Stasi"-like search for possibly "incriminating material"
that might show that he had violated a recently enacted law that makes it a
crime in Austria to deny the "National Socialist crimes against humanity."

[Photograph captioned, "Walter Luftl".]

  To insure that Luftl is not brought into any further legal jeopardy, it
should be stressed that his report is published here (for the first time in
English) without the author's authorization or cooperation.  The text has
been slightly edited, and the editor has added some clarifying words in

  Luftl's report is further authoritative confirmation of the findings of
American gas chamber expert Fred Leuchter, who testified about his on-site
investigation of the supposed "gas chambers" of Auschwitz, Birkenau and
Majdanek in the 1988 trial of German-Canadian publicist Ernst Zundel.  (A
deluxe illustrated edition of _The Leuchter Report_, with a foreword by
Robert Faurisson, and an introduction by David Irving, is available from
the IHR for $20.00, plus $2.00 for shipping.)

  Luftl's report also corroborates Leuchter's findings from his 1989
investigation of the supposed extermination "gas chamber" at the Mauthausen
camp.  (This "Second Leuchter Report" was published in the Fall 1990 IHR
                                                                -The Editor

                      Holocaust: Belief and Facts

                 Introductory statement by the author:

  The following remarks are intended neither to threaten the democratic
order that has prevailed in the Republic of Austria since 1945, nor to
advocate or promote the reintroduction of National Socialism.  These
remarks are intended solely to correct one-sided presentations of
historical events, and to do so taking into consideration the laws of
nature and technical limits, which are of course beyond dispute both
politically and historically.

  These remarks are not intended to "quibble over the number of victims" or
to "defame the victims."  Rather, they are intended to serve as a
scientific clarification of the number of possible victims on basis of
technical and organizational considerations.  These remarks are also
intended to encourage further investigation into the actual events and the
search for truth.

  Because "Holocaust literature" tends to be so one-sided, it is
unfortunately not possible to provide a "balanced presentation" here.  A
critical examination of the limited area of the overall topic under
discussion has shown that the accounts of "eyewitnesses" in particular have
been immensely exaggerated and unbelievable; so much so that a balancing of
the discussion appeared indispensable.  The impossible does not become any
"truer" when it is claimed by many people.  In cases of contradiction
between witness testimony and objective proof, the latter takes precedence
in every modern constitutional state.  In the case of the "Holocaust,"
though, this has obviously been otherwise.


  The author would like to anticipate the proposed introduction of Section
283a of the Criminal Code [of Austria], according to which "the offense...
[has been] committed whenever a person denies the FACT that millions of
human beings, especially Jews, were systematically exterminated in a
genocidal way in the concentration camps of the National Socialist regime."
Such a legal provision could have the effect of rendering the following
remarks punishable, in spite of the fact that they are based on scientific
considerations treated in a manner subject to experimental duplication.

                         What is the Holocaust?

  In the view of those who believe--or cause others to believe--in the
[Holocaust], mass gassings, especially of Jews, were carried out in the
concentration camps of the Third Reich.  Above all in Auschwitz (hence the
term "Auschwitz Myth"), four million Jews were gassed.  [The Nuremberg
Tribunal "established" that four million PEOPLE (Jews and non-Jews) had
been KILLED (by all means) at Auschwitz.]  Currently, though, unimpeachable
sources are seeking to reduce this [sic] figure to 1.5 million.  On
mathematical grounds alone, the "symbolic figure of Six Million" should be
reduced by 3.5 million.  Of course, such a reduction does not lessen the
[gravity of the] crime in any way, because even one victim is one too many.

  All the same, the question remains whether mass gassings took place at
all, or could possibly have taken place.

  Insofar as possible, the author has carefully examined many reports of
"eyewitnesses," as well as "confessions" of SS men.  If one examines the
"eyewitness" testimony, doubts still persist, even if one believes
everything that appears in the Holocaust literature.  These doubts become
even greater when one studies the "confessions" of those who were later
found guilty [of crimes].

  The author does not "deny" anything.  (In proper legal terminology, this
should really mean "to dispute.")  He does not wish to minimize or glorify
anything.  To use a currently fashionable phrase, he wishes only to
"inquire into" [the truth of] the "Auschwitz myth."

  The author wishes to focus on the critical core of the "Auschwitz myth":
the technical possiblities of industrial mass killing with Zyklon B.

           Zyklon B is the Cornerstone of the Auschwitz Myth

  If Zyklon B is unsuitable for use in "deliberate genocidal
extermination," then the entire Auschwitz extermination story ["Auschwitz-
Mythos"] falls apart.  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

                           The War of Belief

  Because the Auschwitz extermination story ["Auschwitz-Mythos"] has so far
not been subjected to scientific analysis, the discussion has been
dominated by belief.  Even intelligent, well-educated people believe in the
"atrocities confirmed by many eyewitnesses."  In doing so, they forget that
in any modern constitutional state, forensic evidence and documentary proof
carry more weight than witness testimony.

  Witnesses may err; their memories may deceive; witnesses may exaggerate
their own importance and repeat hearsay.  Witnesses have also been known to
lie.  Even the "confessions" of allegedly guilty individuals (which may be
extorted through torture or obtained through promises of lesser punishment)
are worthless without the support of objective proof.  Anyone who doubts
this should check Solzhenitsyn...  [In _The Gulag Archipelago_, Aleksandr
Solzhenitsyn cites the case of the Bavarian Jupp Aschenbrenner, who
"confessed" to serving in a German wartime murder commando.  Only later, in
a camp in 1954, was he able to prove that at the time of the alleged
crimes, he was in Munich learning to be a welder.]

  All the arguments against the Holocaust [story] will be meaningless if
people are not willing to accept the truth.  In the words of Schopenhauer:

     Nothing is more galling
     Than to fight with facts and arguments
     Against an adversary
     In the belief
     That one is dealing with his understanding,
     When in reality
     One is dealing with the wil,
     Which obdurately closes its mind to the truth.
     One must understand that reason
     Applied against the will
     Is like seed sown on a bare rock
     Like light arrows against armor,
     Like the stormwind against a beam of light.

  Nothing can be done for those who do not want to face the truth.  But
perhaps, after reading the following, some will be ready to WANT to

                            The Gas Chambers

  According to the Holocaust literature, the victims were "packed" into the
gas chambers and then poisoned with hydrogen cyanide (Prussian Blue) vapors
from Zyklon B.  The bodies were burned in crematory ovens, and the ashes
were strewn on hillsides or in water.

                        Organizational Problems

  Because certain organizational problems arise even in mass extermination
--for example, varying killing capacities of the gas chambers or varying
crematory capacities in disposing of the bodies--it should be obvious even
at this point that events cannot have transpired as described in the
Holocaust literature.  We shall nevertheless limit our discussion to the

                        The Handling of Zyklon B

  What is Zyklon B?  Zyklon B is a pest control agent, the active
ingredient of which is Prussian Blue (hydrocyanic acid, HCN).

  Hydrocyanic acid is a highly toxic, highly flammable liquid that
vaporizes at 25.7 degrees Celsius.  The vapors released upon evaporation
are lighter than air (density: 0.95).  The ignition point of hydrocyanic
acid is 535 degrees Celsius, but the acid can be ignited at temperatures as
low as -17.8 degrees Celsius.  The explosion point in air at 20 degrees
Celsius ranges from 5.4 to 46.6 percent by volume percent, or between 60
and 520 grams per cubic meter (m3).

  Among other uses, gaseous hydrogen cyanide is used as a fumigant gas.

  What is the effect of hydrogen cyanide gas on human beings?

  -- 10 ml/m3 is harmless over an eight-hour exposure;

  -- 90 ml/m3 is dangerous or fatal upon protracted exposure;

  -- 80-270 ml/m3 is rapidly fatal.  Alcohol, even if consumed in only
  small quantities prior to exposure, dangerously enhances the effects of
  cyanide gas.

  For safe handling, hydrocyanic acid is absorbed in diatomite (following
the admixture of an irritant for safety purposes), and is stored and
transported in air-tight metal cans.  The product is generally used within
three months.  Because the Zyklon B manufacturing facilities were totally
destroyed in bombing attacks in early 1944, gassings with Zyklon B could
not have taken place after the summer of 1944.

  The trade weight of the cans was 100, 200, 500, 1000, and 15000 grams HCN
content.  The total weight of a can corresponds to approximately three
times the HCN content.

  Hydrocyanic acid vapors are not released immediately after the cans are
opened.  The evaporation of Zyklon B requires as many as 32 hours or as few
as six hours, depending on whether the ambient temperature ranges from five
to 30 degrees Celsius.  The evaporation rate is not exactly proportional to

      The Gassing Procedure According to the Holocaust Literature

  The victims were led to the gas chambers, which were disguised as shower
baths, and were deceived by being handed soap and a towel.  But what for?
Who takes a shower holding a towel in his hands?  But let's not detain
ourselves with such trivia.

  It is said, for example, that a hundred victims were packed into a
chamber of 20 square meters, that is, five persons per square meter.
(Witnesses sometimes speak of as many as 25 victims per square meter.)  At
five persons per square meter, the victims wouldn't even be able to soap
themselves, due to lack of space.  So what would they need the soap for?
Soap was a commodity in short supply, but was permitted to fall on the
floor unused, and become unusable.  But let's move along.

  The doors of the 2.5 meter-high chamber were hermetically sealed.  An SS
man wearing a gas mask threw in Zyklon B, a mixture of hydrocyanic acid and
irritant (added as a warning substance, since some people cannot smell
hydrocyanic acid, the odor of which peculiarly resembles that of bitter
almonds) absorbed in a carrier substance, from a can containing 200 grams
of HCN in each case, from above.  (This is the usual procedure described in
the Holocaust literature.  According to some sources, it was done
differently only at Mauthausen.)  The mixture fell to the floor, and the
hydrocyanic acid began to escape.  The gassing procedure normally lasted 15
to 20 minutes.  (According to some sources, it lasted from five to as long
as 30 minutes.)

  Assuming that the floor temperature was 25 degrees Celsius (which is
quite warm, since the gas chambers were mostly cold, damp cellars), let us
also conservatively assume a gassing time of one half hour.  After one half
hour, there would have been at most 16 grams of HCN in the air of the
chamber.  The volume of air would be 44 cubic meters.  (That is, 50 cubic
meters, minus the volume of the victims, estimated at six cubic meters,
assuming an estimated average body wieght of 60 kilograms per person, which
would mean a volume of 6 cubic meters for the victims.)  The hydrocyanic
acid content in the air of the chamber would thus have been 363.6 mg/m3.
(That is, 16,000 mg/44 m3 = 363.6 mg/m3.)  That certainly would have been
enough to kill them.  (That is, 270 ml/m3 x 1.23 = approximately 330

  The one hundred victims would now therefore be dead, if we assume that
the hydrocyanic acid did not condense on the cold ambient surfaces inside
the room--perhaps the room was pre-heated to a comfortable temperature.

  At this point, the "chief of the gassing operation" looked through a
peephole in the door to see whether any of the victims showed signs of
life.  But just how he could have done that at Mauthausen, looking through
a peephole 1.20 meters above the ground in a door that is only 1.68 m high,
is a matter that merits further study.

  How could he see anything when the victims were "packed together," and
therefore could not fall down even in the remotest corners of the room?
Nevertheless, after a brief look, the SS executioners turned on the
ventilators to air out the gas chamber.  And here we hit the first snag.
The ventilators must, of course, have been exhausters.  For them to work
(that is, to exchange the air in the chamber), the gas chambers would have
to have been equipped with air intake channels and chimneys equipped with
blowers.  Nothing of this sort has ever been found in any [alleged
homicidal] gas chamber!

  Are the Nazis supposed to have caused all of this equipment to disappear
without a trace in the confusion of defeat?  Apart from that, some
concentration camps were liberated intact by the Allies.

  The ventilation lasted 30 minutes, and, finally, the door was opened (!)
to determine whether the room was gas-free.  "The gassing chiefs, wearing
gas masks" carefully held up a strip of [chemically sensitized] paper
inside [the chamber].  When the room was free of gas, the doors were opened
and the BLUE [skin-colored] corpses were taken by prisoner members of the
crematory work team to the morgue, or straight to the crematory.  (However,
any textbook on toxicology will confirm that the skin color of victims of
hydrocyanic acid poisoning is RED.)  Then the gas chambers--heavily soiled
with blood, excrement, and vomit--were cleaned.

  What is the evidence against such a procedure?  Zyklon B!

  Holocaust writers have overlooked the fact that, during the ventilation
process, Zyklon B would still have retained 92 percent of its hydrocyanic
acid content, and would thus continue merrily on its way, releasing
hydrocyanic acid gas.  At 25 degrees Celsius, it would continue to do so
for fully 15 1/2 hours, and even longer yet at lower temperatures.

  Of course, one could have sent work team members into the gas chamber
wearing gas masks and protective clothing to remove the Zyklon B [carrier
material], which would at that point still be only partially gas-free.  But
just how they could remove this [carrier material] from the midst of the
tightly packed piles of corpses covered with excrement, vomit and blood,
defies explanation.

  The bodies could have been removed, and the gas chamber then cleaned,
only by men wearing gas masks and protective clothing.  But this would mean
a huge pile of excrement, vomit, and similar material, thorougly
contaminated with 184 grams of hydrocyanic acid (which would still continue
to evaporate, although slowly.)  But the remaining 184 grams of hydrocyanic
acid would still be enough to kill approximately 3,000 persons (at 0.001
gram per kilogram, assuming an average body weight of 60 kg per person).

  This is the flaw in the Holocaust literature!

  How did they get rid of the remaining Zyklon B from the midst of the one
hundred corpses, without lengthy ventilation periods, and without causing
mass deaths outside the gas chamber?

  The procedure described above might have worked at Mauthausen, if people
were really gassed at intervals of weeks or months.  If we are to believe
Hans Marsalek, the Mauthausen "historian," an interval of 17 months elapsed
between the fourth and fifth gassings at Mauthausen (April 17, 1943, and
September 25, 1944).  But at Auschwitz, people are said to have been gassed
[continuously] on an industrial basis.

  In fact, Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for purposes of systematic mass
murder.  It can be used to FUMIGATE, and it could be used to gas a group of
persons occasionally.  But for time considerations alone, quasi-industrial
killing would simply be impossible.

  Although the Prussic (hydrocyanic) acid contained in Zyklon B can, of
course, kill quickly and certainly, the handling requirements for Zyklon B
and the circumstances involved rule out any significant use for the mass
killing of people.  This eliminates Zyklon B as a direct instrument of the
Holocaust.  The "eyewitness accounts" in this regard are false.  The
witnesses could never have seen an actual gassing.  The events described
never took place.

  There remains the possiblity of Zyklon B being used as a carrier material
for hydrocyanic acid in gas generators.

  The description of the [gassing] procedure given during a trial before
the German district court [Landesgericht] at Hagen suggests the existence
of a gas generator of almost ingenious simplicity of design.  (The evidence
for gassing in the Mauthausen camp was provided by the document archives of
the Austrian Resistance Center [DOeW].)

  In this case, Zyklon B was not thrown in from above.  (Even though this
is what a commemorative plaque tells us, Marsalek reports it differently.)
Why this brilliant procedure was never used in other concentration camps
remains a mystery.  At Mauthausen, the gas generator consisted of a sheet
metal box with a lid, in which a hot brick (that had been heated in the
open fire of the crematorium) was laid.  This means that the SS could have
gassed people only when bodies were already being burned.  Zyklon B was
then strewn onto this hot brick.  But because of the temperature, this
would mean an explosively rapid vaporization of the gas, resulting in an
explosion of the HCN itself.

  This version of gas generation may clearly be relegated to the realm of
fairy tales.  But it was believed by the Hagen district court, just like
the fairy tale of BLUE (actually, RED) victims of hydrogen cyanide
poisoning.  [The red coloring is confirmed, for example, in: _Allgemeine
und spezielle Pharmakologie und Toxikologie_ (Dr. W. Forth, et al., eds.),
Mannheim, 4th ed., p. 645.]

  Nothing is known of any other gas generators.


  An absolutely unabridged study of the problem must conclude that, by and
large, the views of the so-called "Revisionists"--the so-called "deniers"--
are far more in line with the laws of nature, logic, and technical
realities than the accounts in the Holocaust literature (in which,
moreover, scientifically verifiable data is generally lacking).  When, as
an exception, verifiable data is given in the Holocaust literature, a
critical examination of such data leads to absurd results (25 persons per
square meter, and so forth).

  The decisive error in the Holocaust literature is the belief that the
hydrocyanic acid contained in Zyklon B could be fully released in the
alleged time span of 15-30 minutes required for the gassing, and that the
carrier material would simultaneously and completely vaporize like a moth
ball.  The [fact of the] residue of Zyklon B makes the Auschwitz
extermination story ["Auschwitz-Mythos"] obsolete.


  Preliminary note: The "Gerstein Report" discussed here is the
"confession" of an "informed" SS man, and is a cornerstone of the Holocaust
literature.  [For a detailed analysis, see _The 'Confessions' of Kurt
Gerstein_, by Henri Roques.  Available from the IHR.]  It should therefore
be critically examined for its technical correctness with regard to the
reported mass gassing.

  Note: The quotations [from the "Gerstein Report" given] here are from the
book _Der Nationalsozialismus: Dokumente, 1933-1945_ (W. Hofer, ed.),
Fischer, 1957, pp. 307-311.

  First of all, this writer has made a remarkable observation: the terms
"Zyklon B" and "mass gassings with hydrocyanic acid" appear nowhere in the
entire chapter [about persecution and extermination of Jews].  Didn't Hofer
think that they were worth mentioning in 1957?

  According to the book _Judenfeindschaft: Darstellung und Analysen_
["Hostility to Jews: Description and Analysis"], (K. Thieme, ed.), Fischer,
1963 (p. 277), Gerstein was assigned " pick up 100 kilograms of
hydrocanic acid.  Gerstein carried out the order, and became an eyewitness
to the extermination of Jews in the concentration camp at Belzec..."
Apparently he must have left the hydrocyanic acid in his luggage once he
got there, because [according to Gerstein] he witnessed a gassing [there]
with carbon monoxide.

  Was the Zyklon B story invented between 1957 and 1963?  This is a
possible subject of research for contemporary historians!  But back to the

  Gerstein relates:

  ...The rooms are five by five meters, and 1.90 meters high...The SS
  forced 700-900 people into 25 squre meters, 45 cubic meters.  [Actually:
  47.5 cubic meters.]  The doors close...The people are to be put to death
  with diesel exhaust gas.  But the diesel doesn't work!...Yes, I see
  everything!  And I wait.  My stop watch has recorded everything
  perfectly.  Fifty minutes, 70 minutes, the diesel still won't start!  The
  people wait in their gas chambers.  In vain.  We hear them cry, sob...
  After two hours and 49 minutes--the stop watch has registered everything
  --the diesel starts...Another 25 minutes go by...After 28 minutes, only a
  few of them are still alive.  Finally after 32 minutes, all are dead...

  "Eyewitness" Gerstein never saw a gassing.  He produced an absurd
confession, perhaps to alert others that this atrocity story was extorted
out of him.  This writer wonders why the people who have used this
confession never examined it in its physical and physiological aspects.
They overlooked that any confession requires technical examination.  A
confession can become a liability if used without examination.  The
Gerstein Report is a particularly important indication of the incorrectness
of the Holocaust literature.  Nothing reveals the absurdity of this
"eyewitness report" more than an examination of the verifiable facts

  There were [according to Gerstein] 700-800 persons--that is, an average
of 750 persons--in the chamber, weighing an average of 60 kilograms, and
with a density of approximately one [sic], a volume of 45 cubic meters

  How the people could be "packed" into a room measuring 47.5 cubic meters
is a mystery.  Such an attempt would be absurd and unthinkable.  At the
most, ten persons can fit into one square meter.  (Using rather slender
persons, experimentation has usually yielded a result of eight persons.)

  Two hundred and fifty persons displace 15 cubic meters, which means an
air volume of 32.5 cubic meters (47.5 - 15 = 32.5).  The breathing time
volume (BTV) of those people will amount, on the average, to 7.5 liters per
minute.  Therefore, 250 people will require 250 x 60 x 7.5 / 1000 = 112.5
cubic meters of air to breathe in one hour.  In 32.5 cubic meters of room
space, this air, therefore, will pass through the lungs of the people shut
up in that room 3.45 times in one hour.  It will therefore take 17 minutes
and 20 seconds for the air to pass through their lungs once.

  Dry air contains approximately 21 percent oxygen and only traces of
carbon dioxide.  Exhaled air contains approximately 15 percent oxygen and
4.4 percent carbon dioxide, as well as six percent water vapor.  After 34
minutes and 40 seconds, the air will have been passed through their lungs a
second time, and will now contain approximately ten percent oxygen, but
already eight percent carbon dioxide.  After a (hypothetical) third passage
through the lungs, the air in the chamber would contain approximately five
percent oxygen, but at least eleven percent carbon dioxide, after only 52

  But unconsciousness and anoxia would have appeared after 30 to 45
minutes.  And five minutes of anoxia means brain death.

  Therefore, the people in the "gas chamber" could not, first of all, have
waited two hours and 49 minutes for the diesel engine to start.  Nor could
they have cried and sobbed after 50 minutes of hopeless waiting.  They
would certainly have been dead by that time.  And how could 700-800
people--assuming they could be packed or forced into the chamber at all--
have breathed at all if they were "packed together"?  They would have been
unconscious soon after the doors closed, and in another five minutes they
would have been dead.

  The Gerstein Report is no report, but a whopping lie.  This "eyewitness"
(or rather, those who told him what to write, or who made it up themselves)
was lying!  As shown by the calculations given above, this "eyewitness" is
quite obviously lying.


  In addition to the "Gerstein Report," there are a number of reports that
describe the "genocidal extermination of millions of people, particularly
Jews" in gas chambers in the concentration camps of the National Socialist
regime, as well as reports of so-called "gas vans."  In addition to Prussic
acid [HCN] gas, which came from the pest control agent Zyklon B, carbon
monoxide from diesel exhaust gas was [reportedly] also used.

  It is true that carbon monoxide is a dangerous poison.  The many
unemployed people in Vienna who, during the 1930s, used illumination [coal]
gas (which contained carbon monoxide) to commit suicide were very well
aware of that.  [On the toxicity of carbon monoxide, see, for example:
_Allgemeine und spezielle Pharmakologie und Toxikologie_ (Dr. W. Forth, et
al., eds.), Mannheim, 4th ed., pp. 643-645.]

  The toxicity of carbon monoxide is undisputed.  As always, though, the
question remains: How could this dangerous poison have been applied to the
victims in a quasi-industrial manner?

  First, permit me to digress: According to the Holocaust literature,
submarine motors and tank diesel engines are supposed to have been used.
These details are intended to enhance the credibility of the claims.  It is
nevertheless worth noting that submarine motors, or any other kind of
ship's diesel engines, were not readily available, and that German tanks--
incomprehensibly, due to the greater fuel consumption and considerably
greater danger of fire in the event of a direct hit--were exclusively
equipped with spark-ignition (gasoline) engines.  The only diesel motors
available would have been those from captured tanks after the beginning of
the Russian campaign.  However, their use would hardly have been advisable
due to the difficulty of obtaining spare parts.  But that is beside the
point, only a noteworthy detail.

  What the Holocaust writers have obviously overlooked is the fact that
diesel motors are particularly unsuited for the efficient production of
carbon monoxide (CO).  The SS would have gone over to spark-ignition
[gasoline] engines immediately after the first attempts to kill the victims
with diesel exhaust gases.  Spark-ignition engines can certainly produce
eight-percent carbon monoxide by volume with poor idle adjustment, but
diesels are practically CO free.

  Table of exhaust components in percent by volume

         carbon       water    oxygen    hydrogen     nitrogen   carbon
         dioxide                                                 monoxide
             CO2      H2O      O2        H2           N2         CO

Spark-ignition engines

idle         6.5-8    7-10     1-1.5     0.5-4        71         4-6
throttle     7-13     9-11     0.1-2     0.1-1        74-76      1-4

Diesel engines

idle         3.5      3.5      16        ---          77         0.05!
throttle     5.5-7    7        10-12     0-0.1        77         0.1-0.3!

air inhaled  0                 21                     79
air exhaled  4        6        15                     75

  As this table clearly shows (it is the "idle" column that is important
here), spark-ignition [gasoline] engines deliver up to 120 times as much
carbon monoxide (CO) [as diesel engines], and diesel exhaust gases cannot
produce enough CO.

  And something else is interesting here:  This table includes information
about the content of air inhaled and exhaled during ordinary breathing.  If
the reader compares these figures with those of diesel exhaust gases, he
will quickly notice that this [diesel exhaust] is less toxic.  The amount
of carbon dioxide (CO2), which is also poisonous gas, is less, the amount
of carbon monoxide (CO) is negligible, and the amounts of oxygen and
nitrogen are nearly the same.  Just what does this mean in plain language?

  It means that nobody can be gassed with diesel exhaust.  Instead, victims
would more readily suffocate from using up the oxygen in the "gas tight"
chambers.  In fact, if diesel exhaust gas is introduced into the chamber,
the people inside would actually receive more oxygen than they would from
breathing the air in the closed chamber after it was passed twice through
their lungs!

  This [twice-breathed] air would have only ten percent oxygen left in it,
but would already contain eight percent carbon dioxide.  The oxygen content
would continue to drop as the people [in the chamber] continue breathing,
and the carbon dioxide (CO2) content would continue to rise.  Anoxia
(oxygen deprivation) would occur very quickly, and five minutes after that,
the end would come quickly through brain death.

  The victims--who would otherwise die quickly--would easily live longer as
a result of "gassing" with diesel exhaust, because of its high oxygen
content.  This means that the diesel engine is not suited for quick
killing, assuming this could be done at all.  On the other hand, if the
victims were gassed with exhaust from spark-ignition engines, death would
come much more quickly as a result of oxygen deprivation and the high
carbon dioxide (CO2) content than death by carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning.

  Any executioner would have chosen spark-ignition [gasoline] engines to
suffocate victims in the gas chamber: the first time he tried a diesel
motor, it would quickly become obvious that he had chosen the wrong method
of execution.

  Furthermore, a diesel motor with a five liter displacement running at
1000 revolutions per minute would create an overpressure of one (1)
atmosphere after ten minutes in a 50-cubic meter (m3) large air-tight
chamber, and two (2) atmospheres after 20 minutes.  That's more than the
air pressure inside an automobile tire.  This means that after ten minutes,
there would be twelve tons of pressure against the "gas chamber door," and
24 tons after 20 minutes.  (The measurements of the door at Mauthausen are
72 x 166 cm.)  How long would it take to blow open the door?

  This proves that the testimonies about mass killings with diesel exhaust
gas (such as given in the Gerstein Report) are objectively untrue.  They do
not stand up to scientific examination.


  In the Holocaust literature one can often read reports of eyewitnesses
who saw dense smoke coming from the chimneys of the crematories in German
concentration camps.  Inmates also often saw flames "many meters long"
shooting out of the chimneys.  People with especially good eyesight even
saw such phenomena from as far away as 20 kilometers from Auschwitz.

  Mauthausen "historian" and state official [Hofrat] Hans Marsalek writes
(in the book _Das war Mauthausen_, p. 14, point 18, "Bunker"):

  ...Below the bunker was the first crematorium.  Its fire burned day and
  night, and the glare of the flame shooting out of the chimney could be
  seen far away in the Danube valley...

  All these "eyewitnesses" (who are now commonly referred to as
"contemporary witnesses") are telling conscious untruths when they report
such things, unless they are the victims of an optical illusion.  Only they
themselves know if they are lying.

  The origin of such tales is obvious, even if those who speak loosely
without any technical knowledge achieve exactly the opposite effect by it:
they are thinking of an open fire, which burns higher as more wood is put
on it.  This is supposed to make the story of mass cremations--of more and
more people--appear more credible.  These people confuse a midsummer
bonfire with a crematory oven.

  First, we will make two demands upon the reader's knowledge of geometry
and sense of logic:

  1. Geometry: From a distance of 20 kilometers, even over the
Neusiedlersee [Neusiedl Lake] (which is quite flat), the influence of the
curvature of the earth is enough to cut off any possible visual contact
between the eye of the observer and any high chimney or high flame, even
from a high vantage point (such as the roof of a railroad car, since the
"eyewitnesses" were railroad workers).  In the vicinity of Auschwitz,
furthermore, there were gently rolling hills, which were nevertheless
sufficient to shield the installations from view.

  2. Logic: Why did the Germans lay a smoke screen over the "Hermann Goring
Works" in Linz, and order strict blackouts if, at the same time, (according
to Marsalek) "...the glare of the flame shooting out of the chimney could
be seen far away in the Danube valley..."?  This would have been a beacon
for US bombers.  (I can just hear the co-pilot reporting to the pilot:
"John.  I see the lights of Mauthausen straight ahead!  Now five degrees
[to the] west for Hermann!").  Nobody can believe this.

  Turning now to technology, because objective proof is always far more
conclusive than witness testimony.

  In the book _Bauentwurfslehre_ ["Textbook on Construction Design"] by
Ernst Neufert (Ullstein Fachverlag, 1962), p. 423, one can read:

     Cremation takes place in special ovens which are coke-fired,
  electically-fired (cremation of a body requires about 45 Kw of energy),
  or gas-fired...[and is] entirely free of smoke [Staub] or odor.

(This puts an end to the fairy tales of noticeable odor of the cremated

  [The cremation] takes place in dry air heated to 900-1,000 degrees
  [Celsius], that is without the flame coming into contact with the dead
  [body].  The oven is heated before-hand for two to three hours, and the
  cremation process itself requires between an hour and a quarter and an
  hour and a half.

(See aso the _Meyer_ and _Brockhaus_ standard reference works.)

  Thus, technology also establishes that the crematory capacity could never
have kept pace with the number of bodies in the "genocidal mass gassings of
millions of people," and that therefore the bodies could NOT have been
disposed of in sufficient quantity by burning.

  That no "flame many meters high" could shoot out of the chimney should be
clear to anyone who has ever watched the burning of wood in an open
fireplace, or who watched the grilling of pieces of meat (a preliminary
stage of cremation) on a charcoal fire.

  Contrary to popular belief, corpses are not combustible materials.
Cremation of bodies requires large quantities of fuel.  (With a wooden
coffin of 40 kilograms, and assuming 50 percent total efficiency of
combustion, 45 kilowatts [of electrical energy] corresponds to about 15
kilograms of coke, or eight cubic meters of natural gas.)

  The cremation of four million people using coke would alone require at
least 50 kilograms [per body], which would mean about 200,000 tons of coke!

  It is also senseless (and technically impossible) to speak of cremating
several corpses at the same time in the same oven (witnesses have claimed
as many as ten bodies at a time!), because this would exceed the capacity
of the oven.

  And what about the flames?  Coke is a short-flamed fuel.  The flame could
not even exceed the confines of the burning chamber.  In addition, there is
a short exhaust channel, the flue, between the oven and the chimney.  The
chimney only comes after that.  So, using [such] short-flamed solid fuels,
there wouldn't be any "flame."  At most, there would be exhaust fumes at a
temperature of 180 degrees Celsius.  Otherwise, the chimney would soon be
ruined.  Therefore, after traversing eight or ten meters of chimney, no
flame could be visible outside.  (The chimney length is determined by the
required draw, not the length of the flame.)  Not even a reflection would
be visible because it would be lost in the flue.  I always wonder why the
judges who believed such testimony never at least asked a chimney sweep
about this, even if they didn't consult an expert.  Only "contemporary
historians" and a series of courts have ever accepted these tales of
"contemporary witnesses" about "flames many meters high" shooting out of
the crematoria chimneys.

  On this subject as well, it might be noted that the objections of
"Revisionists" are far more in harmony with the laws of nature and
technology than the tales of the Holocaust writers.


  Before dealing with the question of whether a [homicidal] gas chamber
existed at Mauthausen at all, a few facts--based on unimpeachable sources--
should first be noted.  The following sources have been used:

  A) Hans Marsalek, _Die Geschichte der Konzentrationslager Mauthausen_
  ["The History of the Mauthausen Concentration Camp"] (Vienna: 1974 and

  B) Hans Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_ ["Poison Gas in Mauthausen"]
  (Vienna: 1988)

  C) Hans Marsalek, _Mauthausen: Fuhrer durch die Gedenkstatte_
  ["Mauthausen: Guide to the Memorial Site"] (Vienna)

  D) Martin Gilbert, _Auschwitz und die Allierten_ (Munich: 1982) [English-
  language edition: _Auschwitz and the Allies_]

  The following statements are taken from the above sources:

According to H. Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_, p. 15:
   On November 19, 1943, 38 Soviet citizens were GASSED.

According to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte der Konzentrationslager
Mauthausen_, p. 227:
   On November 19, 1943, 38 Soviet citizens were SHOT.

If those aren't contradictions, what is?

According to H. Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_ (1988), p. 15:

   1. Gassing on May 9, 1942: 231 Soviet prisoners of war.

But according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte_ (1974/1980), it was only

   2. Gassing on October 24, 1942: 261 Czechs.

But according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte_ (1974/1980), it was only

   3. Gassing on January 26, 1943: 31 Czechs.

But according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte_ (1974/1980), it was only 15.

   4. Gassing on April 17, 1943: 59 Soviet citizens and five Poles.

   5. Gassing on September 25, 1944: 138 Soviet citizens and one Pole.

But according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte_ (1974/1980), it was only 110
Soviet citizens.

And so forth.

To sum up here:

  According to H. Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_ (1988), the sum total,
up to September 9, 1944, is 726 persons.

  But, according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte der Konzentrationslager
Mauthausen_ (1974 and 1980), the sum total, up to September 9, 1944, is 526

  It is worth noting here that more than 17 months elapsed between the
fourth and fifth gassings.

  We are further given to understand--from H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte der
Konzentrationslager Mauthausen_--that Zyklon B was already delivered on
September 22, 1941, and was again delivered on July 7, 1942, on April 28,
1943, July 1, 1943, and November 5, 1943, in the amount of 240 kg of
cyanide content for each delivery.

  Zyklon B was therefore already being delivered long before the
[homicidal] "gas chamber" was [supposedly] put into operation, and was
thereafter delivered in quantities exceeding the requirement for executions
in a "gas chamber" by many thousands of percent.  This may be proven by the
following calculations:

  The fatal dose would amount to 180-270 ml/m3, or 220-330 mg/m3.  (Source:
Supplement [Beilage] ./D, Merkblatt M 002 der Berufgenossenschaft der
chemischen Industrie, p. 9.)

  The volume of the "gas chamber" was approximately 35 cubic meters (3.70 x
3.90 x 2.46).  Subtracting a volume of approximately two cubic meters for
the people to be gassed, the chamber therefore contains a volume of 33
cubic meters of air.  Assuming a CERTAIN fatal dose of one gram per cubic
meter (or about 3 to 4.5 times as much as would really be required to
kill), per gassing 33 grams are required, or 1.1 grams of hydrocyanic acid
per person.  Assuming five grams per person--conservatively assuming a 22
percent degree of efficiency of the cyanide content in Zyklon B for
purposes of yielding cyanide gas--the 2,481 persons (according to H.
Marsalek, _Giftgas_) could have been killed 10 to 20 times over with 12
kilograms.  So why did they deliver more than one ton between September 22,
1941, and November 11, 1943, even though only 526 persons could have been
gassed up to September 25, 1944, according to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte
der Konzentrationslager Mauthausen_?  Or was the Zyklon B used only for
delousing and pest control?  The actual requirement for the certain killing
of 526 persons is about one half kilogram.

  According to H. Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_, p. 233:

  On August 19, 1944, 457 (or 456) Jewish prisoners were sent to Auschwitz.
On August 28, 1944, 419 arrived [at the camp].

  And according to M. Gilbert, _Auschwitz und die Allierten_, p. 362 [or,
_Auschwitz and the Allies_, p. 308]:

  A train with 417 [or 429] persons arrived at Auschwitz from Mauthausen on
August 22, 1944.  Of this number, 93 were transferred to the work camp, and
326 were gassed.

  A close look at the above reveals something remarkable.  The question
arises: Why did the Nazis, who possessed a properly functioning gas chamber
at Mauthausen (but one which, at this point in time, apparently had not
been used for 17 months), first transport the 326 Jews for three (or nine)
days to Auschwitz, and then immediately gas them?  Why didn't they gas them
right away in Mauthausen?

  According to H. Marsalek, _Giftgas in Mauthausen_, p. 15:

The gassing operations in Mauthausen first really began in earnest on March
23 (or 27), 1945.  Up until April 28, 1945, there were nine gassings, and
up to the period between May 9, 1942, and February 19, 1945, also only

  According to H. Marsalek, _Die Geschichte der Konzentrationslager
Mauthausen_, gassings took place on just 18 days, with 1,980 victims.  But
according to H. Marsalek (the same author), in _Giftgas in Mauthausen_,
there were 2,481 victims!

  In H. Marsalek, _Mauthausen: Fuhrer durch die Gedenkstatte_, p. 12, a
document is cited.  This is a communication from the SS Economic and
Administrative Main Office (WVHA), dated Nov. 10, 1943, to the commandants
of the concentration camps.  Among other things, it reads:

     The bordello and the crematories are not to be shown during camp
  visits.  These installations are not to be mentioned to persons visiting
  the camp...

  Aparently, then, EVERYTHING ELSE could be shown and mentioned to
visitors.  Logically, then, a GAS CHAMBER, if one existed, could be shown
and talked about; otherwise, it would have been included in the

  Since we cannot assume that the SS ever showed a [homicidal] gas chamber
to the inspectors of the International Red Cross, it is permissible to
conclude that none existed.


  Why was Zyklon B delivered for a year prior to the [alleged homicidal]
gassings?  Obviously, for pest control and delousing!  Delousing chambers
are in Mauthausen even today, but there is no structure capable of being
used as a [homicidal] gas chamber.

  Why was nobody gassed for 17 months even though there [supposedly] was a
working gas chamber?  Why did they send hundreds of people during this
period to Auschwitz for gassing?  Obviously, in fact, because nobody was
ever gassed in Mauthausen as part of any "systematic genocide."

  Why would a gas chamber be built if, during a period of more than three
and a half years, it was used on only 18 days, and if the adjacent
installation--where people were shot in the back of the neck (according to
H. Marsalek in _Giftgas in Mauthausen_)--worked three times as efficiently?

  The answer is that the room shown today as a gas chamber was never used
for that purpose, and--for technical and physical reasons--never could have
been used for that purpose.  It was very probably the shower room for the
crematory personnel, although its use as a morgue cannot be excluded.

  Anyone familiar with the danger involved in handling hydrocyanic acid gas
(which is explosive and extremely toxic) must wonder why the SS
executioners didn't use carbon dioxide gas--which is easier to handle and
completely harmless to the executioner--to kill the prisoners who were
allegedly poisoned with Zyklon.

  Any textbook on physiology confirms that in the event of anoxia (oxygen
deprivation), disturbances of brain functioning appear after five seconds,
followed by unconsciousness after 15 seconds, and brain death after five
minutes.  This is how animals are put to sleep, painlessly and surely.  It
also works with people.

  But according to Marsalek (in _Giftgas in Mauthausen_, p. 10), instead of
blowing carbon dioxide (CO2) into the "gas chamber," the Nazis sprinkled
Zyklon B onto a brick heated on a shovel in the crematory oven to generate
cyanide gas!


  The allegation is also found in Holocaust literature that gas chamber
victims were suffocated using carbon monoxide (CO).

  In Hans Marsalek's work, _Vergasungsaktionen im Konzentrationslager
Mauthausen: Die Gaskammer im Schloss Hartheim_ ["Gassings Actions in the
Mauthausen Concentration Camp: The Gas Cahmber in the Hartheim Castle"],
pp. 21 ff., we read:

  ...People were apparently first gassed in Hartheim with carbon monoxide
  gas on June 6, 1940...New supplies of steel flasks with poison gas...were
  provided...Poison gas streamed through this pipe, which was always blown
  in from a steel flask located in the next room...

  This allegation can also be found in the indictment of the Prosecuting
Attorney of Linz, dated July 20, 1947 (3 St 466/46).

  In Simon Wiesenthal's book, _Doch die Morder Leben_ (Droemer Knaur), 1967
[US edition: _The Murderers Among Us_], p. 385, on the photo of the site
diagram of Hartheim Castle, the gas flask storage area [Gasflaschenlager]
is marked, right next to the "gassing area" [Vergasungsraum].

  (Interestingly, Wiesenthal refers in this book to eleven million people
supposedly gassed [sic] by the Nazis.  As part of the downward trend, this
figure has been reduced to six million.  The figure continues to fall, and
because of the recent subtraction of three million from the Auschwitz
figure, the grant total must now be three million.)

  That this diagram is actually a forgery fits, of course, with the general
pattern.  ([Specifically:] Captions and, therefore, room designations, were
not made with a typewriter.  Instead, the diagram designations were made
with standard script or block letters.  And a "gas chamber" with a window
is technical nonsense.  The handwritten word "crematory" has been added to
the words "oven room," apparently to criminalize the heating system.  Given
the lack of space, the question of precisely how the bodies were
[supposedly] brought into the ovens is a matter worthy of some
consideration.  And the word "Sektierkammer" [dissection chamber] was
obviously added by someone who is not entirely familiar with the German

  Gassing by means of carbon monoxide from flasks is technical nonsense.
Carbon monoxide (CO) could only have been filled and stored in high
pressure steel flasks, which would have been extremely expensive to fill,
and even more expensive to transport.  Anyone engaged in quasi-industrial
mass killing could generate carbon monoxide in large quantities by simply
using a spark-ignition (gasoline) engine, with a suitably "bad" (but for
this purpose quite logical) carburetor adjustment.  With just one liter of
gasoline, and set at idle, such an engine can deliver many cubic meters of
[deadly] exhaust in a very short time.  This exhaust would not have any
oxygen content, but would have eight, ten, 15 or even 20 percent carbon
monoxide content.  It would also be produced cheaply and on the spot, and
at a fraction of the cost of the fuel required for the transport of any
"gas flasks."

  Once again, it must be stated that the Nazis may have been criminals, but
they were certainly not stupid enough to use approximately one hundred
liters of gasoline to produce a quantity of carbon monoxide that they could
easily have manufactured on the spot using a couple of liters of gasoline.

  In addition, carbon monoxide was produced in chemical plants and was a
basic element for [the production of] synthetic gasoline.  If for no other
reason, the story of "carbon monoxide in flasks" for mass killing appears
improbable because of the energy required to compress it, transport it in
filled high pressure flasks, and then release it later at atmospheric
pressure during use.

  Thus, the last remaining cornerstone of the mass gassing story is
relegated to the class of technical fairy tales rather than scientifically
proven fact.  This applies to gassings whether by:

  --hydrocyanic acid used in the manner described above (that is, by
  throwing in Zyklon B from above),

  --exhaust gas from diesel engines, or

  --carbon monoxide in flasks,

whether in stational "gas chambers" or in so-caled "gas vans."

  The mass gassing story is certainly not a "fact of common knowledge"!

  Had the Nazis really wished to "gas" (or, more accurately, to
"suffocate") people on a quasi-industrial basis ("systematic genocide"),
they certainly would have turned to carbon dioxide gas (CO2), which would
have been absolutely harmless to the executioners and cheap to produce,
instead of hydrocyanic acid (HCN) in Zyklon B or carbon monoxide (CO).

  Anyone who does not believe this should take care to read the newspaper
accounts of frequent accidents with fermentation gas which occur every year
in the springtime in Austrian wine cellars.

  Carbon dioxide kills quickly, painlessly and surely.


  Leuchter states that "the gas chambers at Auschwitz were not used to kill
human beings with Zyklon B, because they could not be heated and had
insufficient ventilation installations."

  In this regard, the author H. Auerbach, writing in a statement on "The
So-Called Leuchter Report," issued in November 1989 by the [semi-official
German] Institut fur Zeitgeschichte ["Institute of Contemporary History"]
in Munich, stated:

    Leuchter fails to consider that even in a much larger room (Note:
  compared to a US execution gas chamber), this temperature (of evaporation
  of hydrogen cyanide) would be reached very quickly if it were packed full
  of people, and that therefore no heating at all is required.

  Like so many Holocaust writers, Auerbach is mistaken.

  An experiment was carried out by this writer to simulate the heating of a
chamber by human beings.

  The dimensions of the chamber were as follows: Floor area: 5.43 square
meters.  Height: 2.45 meters.  Volume: 13.30 cubic meters.  Surface area:
33.70 meters.  The chamber floor was tiled, as were the walls up to a
height of 1.50 meters.  Above that height, the walls were of wood section
covering, with a wood section ceiling.  Because of the large wood surface,
the chamber is far easier to heat than the "gas chambers" shown as tourist
attractions at Auschwitz.  The chamber took an hour to heat using an 1.8 Kw
electric convection heater, after which the room was "ventilated" for 30

  The nearly square chamber had one outside wall (outdoor air temperature:
20 degrees Celsius), and three inside walls (inside air temperature: 22
degrees Celsius).

  The rise in temperature (Celsius) is shown in the following table (with
figures founded off):

Time              Air     Floor      Wall 1.35 m     Wall 1.75 m

Beginning         22      22         22              22

30 min.           38.5    24         28              31
60 min.           42.5    25         30              32

Heating stopped
30 min. [later]   22      22         22              22

Ventilation stopped

  Since according to the laws of nature, warmth flows from areas of higher
temperature to cooler areas, and the standard "average body temperature" is
approximately 33-34 degrees Celsius (_Physiologie des Menschen_,
Schmidt/Thews, Springer, 1987, p. 655), the figures measured in the
simulation (at summer temperatures) are well above those that could be
attained in the middle of the year in an unheated "gas chamber."  Even [in
a room] with people "tightly packed crushed together," an air temperature
in excess of 30-32 degrees Celsius would not be attained.  In addition, the
gassings are supposed to have taken place quickly and on a quasi-industrial

  Consequently, the wall temperatures would rise only slightly (hence the
possibility that the hydrocyanic acid would condense on the walls), and the
floor temperature would hardly rise at all.  Nor would the bare feet of the
victims warm the floor to any appreciable extent, because the temperature
of the arch of the foot is only 27-28 degrees Celsius, and the temperature
of the soles is practically identical to the floor temperature.  Therefore,
rather than warming the floor to any measurable extent, the victims would
suffer from cold feet.

  According to the Holocaust literature, Zyklon B was normally thrown in
from above.  This means, naturally, that it would land on the floor (which
even in summer was colder than 26 degrees Celsius).  As a result, the
hydrocyanic acid contained in the Zyklon B would not vaporize quickly, but
would instead evaporate more or less slowly (from six to 32 hours, at five
to 30 degrees Celsius).  This is precisely the secret of the success of
Zyklon B as a pest control agent: a nearly even yield of the active
ingredient over long periods of time depending on the temperature.

  To achieve the rapid killing described in the Holocaust literature, the
SS therefore would have had to incorporate floor heating installations into
the "gas chambers" in order to be able to use them as [homicidal] gas

  And there is another detail: rapid and effective ventilation would have
required not just mechanical ventilation, but suitable air intake channels.
Without an air intake, using ventilators alone, the deadly air-gas mixture
could never have been exhausted from the gas chamber.  If this were
attempted, the ventilator would reach a "suction limit" and run empty.
That is, it would deliver nothing, but would instead simply maintain a
certain partial vacuum [Unter-druck] in the chamber.  Deadly hydrogen
cyanide (HCN) would continue to evaporate for many hours, and the
concentration in the air of the chamber would thereby become more and more
rapidly fatal.  How the room [removal] work team could work without heavy
breathing equipment and protective clothing, only a "witness" can explain.
Science can provide no answer.

  Rather, science shows that:

  a) Leuchter is correct, even though he provided no detailed scientific
  proof in his report, and

  b) Holocaust writers are telling stories which cannot withstand
  scientific scrutiny.


  Holocaust writers now face a dilemma.

  The weapon for the "systematic genocidal extermination of millions of
people, especially Jews" must now be abandoned if one looks at the facts
instead of concentrating on belief.

  No weapon, no crime.  What now?

  Mass murder with diesel exhaust gases (in 32 minutes, according to
Gerstein) is a sheer impossibility for reasons of time alone.  This can be
proven experimentally, even today, with a couple of brave men.  Therefore,
the [stories of] "gas chambers with diesel engines" and "gas vans"
["gaswagen"] can only be disinformation.  The "witnesses" make objectively
false statements, and the "confessions" are clearly false.  The laws of
nature apply both to Nazis and anti-fascists.  Nobody can be killed with
diesel exhaust gas in the manner described.

  Mass murder in the manner described, with Zyklon B and with carbon
monoxide, cannot have taken place, either, because it too would violate the
laws of nature, and because the necessary technical and organizational
prerequisites were lacking.

  Experimental killings with Zyklon B may have taken place.  After fifty
years, this cannot be ruled out with certainty.  But such experiments would
have resulted in deaths among the executioners, and the recognition that
something like the [supposed] Mauthausen shooting installation would be
more logical and safer.

  A similar recognition would have come very quickly in any experiment
using diesel exhaust gases ("get rid of that diesel and get us a spark-
ignition engine"), if there had ever been any "gas chambers with diesel
engines" or "gas vans" ("generator gas" from "wood gas" trucks would have
been more logical).  The Nazis may have been criminals, but they certainly
were not stupid enough to use diesel motors and Zyklon B in the manner

  The crematories could never have disposed of the number of victims: this
may be considered proven by engineering science.  Bodies are not a
combustible material.  Their cremation requires a great deal of time and

  In light of what is now known, ther are no "facts of common knowledge"
[or "judicially noted" facts] with regard to the Holocaust.  The facts
given above should be elaborated to a higher degree of proof by
specialists, and preferably by court-recognized experts.  Such a study will
certainly produce amazing results, which will radically alter the basic
views of many people.

  Objective proof will refute the testimony of perjured "witnesses" and the
"confessions" of "criminals."

  Judges and historians must draw the appropriate conclusions, and a whole
generation of "contemporary historians" will sit on the ruins of their
worldview, much as the Marxists today sit on the ruins of their Marxist

  In court trials of "Revisionists," therefore, "contemporary historians"
should never be the only ones permitted to determine the "facts" of the
Holocaust.  There must be interdisciplinary cooperation with scientists and

  Any legal provision that seeks to hinder or even penalize scientific
investigation of the Holocaust (such as section 283a of the Austrian
criminal code) would amount to a state-ordered reign of terror against the
human spirit.

  Should actual investigation of the Holocaust prove the "deliberate
genocide" to be a fact, the discussion will then be at an end, among the
"Revisionists" as well.  Who could wish to oppose discussion of the
Holocaust, on any grounds, let alone attempt to choke discussion using
criminal law?

  Who is there who could abolish freedom of thought and the rule of law,
without opening himself to the suspicioin of trying to exert improper
influence by suppressing discussion?

  Is "1984" coming after all--through the back door?

[end of article]

[Reprinted by permission from _The Journal of Historical Review_, P.O. Box
1306, Torrance, CA 90505, USA.  Subscription rate: $40 per year, domestic.
$50 per year, foreign.]

     This article was manually transcribed by the System Operator of the
"Banished CPU" computer bulletin board system, which is located in Portland,
Oregon, U.S.A.

                    Banished CPU supports Freedom of Speech!
         |                                                           |
         |  For 300-9600 bps (3 lines w/V.32) call:  (503) 232-5783  |
         |  For 14400 bps (2 lines w/V.32bis) call:  (503) 232-6566  |

                        Sysop: Maynard "the Main Nerd"

[end of file]

-Dan Gannon

dgannon@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400, N81)

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Wed, 7 Apr 1993 20:33:15 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Re: GANNON
In-Reply-To:  <>; from "Richard
              Jensen" at Apr 7, 93 9:55 pm

You wrote:

|   The Gannon item was a bad mistake; we must not publish any
|   more such.

I disagree. If we are to deal effectively with that sort of material, then
we must be aware of it. Doing this with a January, 1993 SpotLight article
led directly to the Auschwitz FAQ, which was a precise response. The
Auschwitz FAQ led directly to, and referred to, the Leuchter FAQ. At the
same time, having completed the Auschwitz work, I used the same format to
assemble Operation Reinhard-related material and another FAQ. All of them
were the _direct_ result of the publishing of the Spotlight article to the
list, and the discussions held about the most effective means of dealing
with it. The value of this work has been demonstrated.

|   1. HOLOCAUS is not a revisionist outlet. It will not publish
|   revisionist tracts.

Then what is it you would discuss? Only what the board has determined is
politically correct? Would we all bury our heads in the sand, and pretend
those folks don't exist? How in God's name do you expect to learn anything?
Is it really easier to pretend that David Irving doesn't exist than to
examine his work under a microscope? (Is "Hitler's War" in the UIC

|   2. It is illegal for UIC to publish copyright material
|   without explicit permission.

UIC didn't publish it, Dan Gannon did, to multiple public newsgroups,
and I republished his article. Even the IHR didn't get permission to publish

No citations, as in my FAQ's, can be allowed either, nor discussions
regarding confusion between multiple cited sources, nor posting of the FAQ
drafts here, since they all contain copyrighted material which I did not
have permission to use.

|   3. It will grossly distort the purpose of the list.

Your list, perhaps. Mine was deliberatly created to deal with Holocaust
denial. Its purpose was to examine and refute, and, I submit, it has done
that admirably. HLIST, however, had a distinct and different purpose which
was known to all who inquired or subscribed. Both the info file and the
welcome file were quite clear, as was the monthly listing in the Public
Mailing Lists article. I would be happy to send them to anyone who contacts
me directly. (All previous subscribers have already seen the welcome file.)

|   4. It is a great embarassment to me and to UIC, and to the list.

To the list? Hardly - no-one expressed any great anger over either the
publication of the Spotlight article, or the discussion following. Personal
concerns, yes; anger, no. The result was demonstrably positive, and an
embarassment to no-one, let alone the list.

|   5. We need an apology and promise it will not happen again.

I will not apologize for consistently following the purpose for which my
list was created. If you wish, I will publicly disassociate myself from
both the University and the list, and explain why I am initiating another
list elsewhere. I accept your right to refuse to accept such material,
and you can obviously accept mine to disassociate. Surely that will keep
you good folks happy?

Please remove my name from both the editorial list and the subscription
list, and remove my name from all of the lists informational/promotional
data. You have most certainly not given HLIST a new home, nor will you,
working under these restrictions, further its purpose one iota.

I am publishing this to the list so that there will be no misunderstanding
regarding my feelings and intentions. Had I known that the rules were going
to be changed immediately, I would never have accepted your offer to move
the list to UIC.

I would like to continue to work with the good folks who have lent their
efforts to this project since it began, and will contact them all

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Thu, 8 Apr 1993 00:01:11 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Re: GANNON (fwd)

You wrote:
>From mala!!jginther Wed Apr  7 23:38:23 1993
X-Delivered: at request of kmcvay on oneb
From: (James Ginther)
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: GANNON
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 00:45:50 -0400
In-Reply-To: <>; from "Ken McVay" at Apr 7,
          93 8:33 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

To the List Moderators:

I was a little taken aback by your response to Ken's posting, and it
did smack of political correctness.  I must be getting tired of
sanitizing the truth for public consumption, because your comments
angered me enought write!

I am a bit of an outsider on this topic; I am a medievalist who has
been given the great opportunity of being a teaching assistant to Dr.
Michael Marrus for the last few years.  The experience has been an
eye-opener to say the least, not only as a refresher in modern
european history, but also in a lesson in various forms of

The most dangerous form of revisionism, I believe, is not the blatent
response "the Holocaust is a lie"; but rather the one that
attempts to construct pseudo-intellectual arguments that grossly
misrepresent the historical record.  What concerns me the most is when
a student begins a question with "I read in an article that the
evidence for this event is shaky and perhaps manufactured..."  Yes,
this is gross revisionism; yes, it needs to be corrected; and yes, I
would like to know just what kind of argument is being constructed so
I can rationally provide an answer.  I still believe, perhaps naively,
that my role as an educator (even at the tutorial level) is to show
students how to confront lies with the truth.

Hence, Ken's list has helped.  IMO, I was happy to see it merge with
another list with a larger mandate, so that discussions  were no
longer focused on "holocaust apologetics." Yet, I also believe it
would be a grevious mistake to remove this type of discussion from the

Your demand for an apology is tantamount to shooting the messenger.
Ken didn't write the article, nor does he endorse any of its content.
I hope that he, in the end, does stay with HOLOCAUS.  His work has a
role to play.

Regard. Jim.

James R. Ginther                    (*-
Centre for Medieval Studies                    "Ubi es?"
University of Toronto
                                                      - God        -*)
If I had an opinion that counted, it could only be my own.

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Thu, 8 Apr 1993 15:32:39 PDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Ken McVay 
Subject:      Spotlight Article Controversy (fwd)

You wrote:
>From mala!LETTSCI.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU!MarcM Thu Apr  8 12:54:45 1993
X-Delivered: at request of kmcvay on oneb
Subject: Spotlight Article Controversy
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1993 11:44:00 -0400
Message-ID: <>
Encoding: 8 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0

How can UIC protest the posting and discussion of the Spotlight article when
their libraries no doubt contain multiple copies of Mein Kempf, Protocols of
the Elders of Zion, The International Jew, and the Koran, all of which defame

Marc Mayerson

[The protest wasn't over the Spotlight article, but rather the Dan Gannon
piece which I published to the list recently. The HOLOCAUS list did not
exist when HLIST discussed January's Spotlight. I raised the Spotlight
article to demonstrate the potentially great value of publishing such
material to the list, since it was a perfect example, at least in my mind.
Library contents aren't relevant, since they are not copies. While UIC
clearly must be concerned about copyright law, I did not feel their concern,
as expressed in their rather terse message to me, was remotely justified in
this case. Gannon did not include a copyright with his article, and it was
his article that _I_, not UIC, published to the list. Be that as it may, I
must respect their demand that no copyrighted material be published here,
and my decision stands. (I am surprised that I am still receiving material
for the moderator, quite frankly, since I thought I made my wishes with
regard to HOLOCAUS clear.) For the record, if I my request to be removed
from this list is ignored, and I am sent another relevant Spotlight article,
I will not hesitate to publish it here and call for discussion relevant to
refuting the contents. knm]

The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT
  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island
with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac
Date:         Fri, 9 Apr 1993 08:57:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      New subscription

tell listserv add holocaus u28330@uicvm Burton Bledstein
Date:         Sun, 11 Apr 1993 20:59:51 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Richard Jensen 
Subject:      memo from listowner re policies

    Memo: to HOLOCAUS subscribers from Richard Jensen,
    u08946@uicvm, listowner
 A. After the dispute with Ken McVay I need to make the HOLOCAUS
    position clear.  Basically, it is that HOLOCAUS has limits.
    (Some people will these limits "political correctness" but
    it is important for everyone to understand them.)
    1. HOLOCAUS is owned by and financed by the government of the
       state of Illinois (i.e. the University of Illinois)  and
       must be very scrupulous about rights and wrongs. (Indeed,
       one of the goals of HOLOCAUS studies is to uplift and
       sharpen sensibilities about right and wrong.)  As a state
       institution HOLOCAUS does NOT have the right do as we please
       and to ignore state and national policy; we must reflect
       policy. (US national policy is very clear about the
       desirability of teaching about the Holocaust in a sensitive
    2. HOLOCAUS will not transmit material that has been printed
       (on paper) and is therefore very likely under copyright
       a) There is explicit permission from the author or owner of the
       b) or we are making "fair use" in a scholarly sense.  That
          means short excerpts (certainly not all the text) used for
          critique or analysis.
       c) In this case, Ken reprinted an entire article by a person
          named Luftl without permission.  Indeed, the introduction to
          the article explicitly said:
          >"To insure that Luftl is not brought into any further legal
          >jeopardy, it should be stressed that his report is
          >published here (for the first time in English) without the
          >author's authorization or cooperation.  The text has been
          >slightly edited, and the editor has added some clarifying
          >words in brackets."
       d) It will not do to say that someone else violated the
          copyright first. (It is illegal to photocopy and distribute
          a textbook. If you find lying around a xerox copy of the
          textbook, it is STILL illegal for you to make copies and
          distribute it.)
    3. It is clear that Ken transmitted the piece hoping to
       eventually discredit the revisionists. However, HOLOCAUS
       will not publish or republish anything by this group, with
       or without their permission. I apologize for letting this
       item slip through (The copy went to me at the same time it
       went to everyone, and not before.  I did not have the
       faintest notion it would appear.)
       a) It is true that the University of Illinois Library collects
          most everything. HOLOCUAS is not like a library--it is a
          publisher. A University Press has an elaborate code about
          what it publishes, with many inside and outside reviewers
          involved.  University presses reject most of the items that
          are submitted to them (History journals like the American
          Historical Review reject about 90% of the articles sent in.)
          HOLOCAUS is trying to set high standards by setting up an
          editorial board.
       b) If there are people on the list who want to refute
          revisionism, more power to you. HOLOCAUS will help, but it
          indeeds to keep the revisionist debate in perspective (that
          is, it is intellectually a very small matter--much less
          important than many other topics.  It does not deserve a lot
          of space.)
    4. HOLOCAUS is pitched to the academic community, and academic
       criteria must be in play. Regarding refutation--it's a
       tricky business that if done poorly increases the visibility
       and the prestige of the target message.  If A wants to
       refute Z, it is essential that A have an accurate text of
       what Z wrote.  Any academic who tried to refute the Luftl
       piece using a text that was known to be garbled (see the
       quote above) would be foolish. The text that Ken sent out is
       worthless for rebuttal, but unfortunately it does help
       spread the visibility of the revisionists.
Date:         Mon, 12 Apr 1993 08:19:00 CST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 

From: David Bedell 

Besides the new HEBLANG list, what discussion lists already exist which
use Hebrew as the medium of communication?  I thought I saw some based at
taunivm.bitnet.  Are there any other discussion lists that might be useful
for Hebrew learners: E-HUG or IVRITEX, maybe?

--David Bedell, U. of Alabama (dbedell3@ua1vm.bitnet or
Date:         Mon, 12 Apr 1993 08:24:00 CST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 

         The White House on April 5 asked Harvey Meyerhoff to
    step down as chairman of the council that built the US
    Holocaust Memorial. Meyerhoff is a Republican appointed by
    President Reagan in 1987; William Lowenberg, also a Reagan
    appointee, was fired as vice chairmen. Both men will remain
    members of the Council, for which Preident Clinton will
    appoint new officers.
         Representative Sidney Yates (D-IL), the powerful
    chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee,
    criticized the timing, noting "This is a very important and
    delicate period when the council staff is working day and
    night to try to get the museum ready for the opening."
    Source: AP report in New York Times, 4-6-93 p A9.
Date:         Tue, 13 Apr 1993 07:04:00 CST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Holocaust Museum Opening

From:   SMTP%""      "Cecelia A Clancy" 12-APR-1993 22:13:11.38
CC:     Cecelia A Clancy 
Subj:   Hol. Museum Opening

Received: from [] by
           with SMTP-VMS via TCP/IP; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 22:13 CST
Received: from by Mon, 12 Apr 93 22:11:44 CDT
Received: by id AA14558
  (5.65c/IDA- for; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:10:21 -0400
Received: via switchmail; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:10:20 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from via qmail
          ID ;
          Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:09:13 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from via qmail
          ID ;
          Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:09:05 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from
          Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:09:04 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 23:09:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Cecelia A Clancy 
Subject: Hol. Museum Opening
Cc: Cecelia A Clancy 


On holocaus list you wrote:

         Representative Sidney Yates (D-IL), the powerful
    chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee,
    criticized the timing, noting "This is a very important and
    delicate period when the council staff is working day and
    night to try to get the museum ready for the opening."
    Source: AP report in New York Times, 4-6-93 p A9.

Yes, I agree that the timing was very bad.

I am worried about something else, though.   I have reason to
suspect that Bradley Smith (of CODOH) and his "boss" Willis
Carto are planning something "special" (that is, "upsetting" or
"disruptive") to coincide with the opening of the museum that
the something "special" might take place in the Washington, D.C.
area.     I already know of something Bradley had in the pipeline
before to coincide with the opening, but that plan fell through.
But possibly, he might now have something else in the pipeline.

Can you tell me more about when the museum is to open?   I
only know that it is sometime in April, which means "very

Do you want me to send you information of what Bradley had in
the pipeline before, but that had fallen through?

You know, if the new Clinton political appointing DOES cause
a delay in the museum opening, them maybe that will mess up
whatever "special" Bradley might have now in the pipeline.

-- Regards,
-- Cecelia Mu"llermeder    
Date:         Wed, 14 Apr 1993 09:25:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Online opportunities and challenges

From:   IN%"jem@nysernet.ORG" 13-APR-1993 17:47:57.82
To:     IN%"jem@nysernet.ORG"  "Multiple recipients of list"
Subj:   New listserver, sample Jewish organization installation

Received: from JNET-DAEMON by APSU.BITNET (PMDF #3006 ) id
 <01GWXY01MH3K8ZDWCK@APSU.BITNET>; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 17:47:46 CST
Received: From SUVM(BITMAIL) by APSU with Jnet id 1651 for CAMPBELLD@APSU; Tue,
 13 Apr 1993 17:47 CST
Received: from SUVM by SUVM (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 6907; Tue,
 13 Apr 93 18:45:06 LCL
Received: from nysernet.ORG by SUVM.SYR.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue,
 13 Apr 93 18:44:43 LCL
Received: from [] by nysernet.ORG (5.65/3.1.090690-NYSERnet Inc.) id
 AA14440; Tue, 13 Apr 93 18:44:29 -0400
Date: 13 Apr 1993 18:44:29 -0400
From: goodblat@nysernet.ORG (Avrum Goodblat)
Subject: New listserver, sample Jewish organization installation
Sender: jem@nysernet.ORG
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Errors-to: goodblat@nysernet.ORG
Reply-to: jem@nysernet.ORG
Message-id: <9304132241.AA13704@nysernet.ORG>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Precedence: bulk
X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Jewish Electronic Mail

Welcome back from Pesach, everyone. For those of you who are wondering WHEN I
am finally going to start up the Methodology discussion over on Jem-mod, the
delay is due to learning the new features of Listserver 6.0, which was
installed a couple of months ago. FYI, here are some of the new capabilities:
(or just old ones that I didn't know about)

Interactive client/server, similar to but more powerful than ftp.
Free-text search of archives to retrieve files
ability to hide your presence on a list, request acknowledgement of messages
 and several other subscriber options
auto-archiving of messages and digests (an old feature somewhat expanded)

In fact, a listserver is a special type of computer conferencing system, with
much in common with netnews and compuserve sig's (conceptually, anyway). My own
background has been in computer-supported cooperative work, which is the
general title given to such tools (there are alot more types than those).
Computer bulletin board systems are a very primitive type of computer
conferencing system.

Unfortunately, may very powerful tools never get used because they are not
easily understood or used. It is very hard to design a computer tool which is
both powerful and easy to use. Really collaborative work, of the kind that we
hope to encourage in Jewish community activities, require much more than just
simple email, both technically and organizationally speaking. Unfortunately,
due to budget constraints (like, we just don't have a budget;-) the
documentation and tools are not as powerful as we would like. I encourage those
who are interested to ftp or file request the documentation and read through it
completely, sending questions here to clarify what and how. This is especially
true for moderators.

A related problem is how to introduce these tools into a normal education or
social service institution. It ain't easy, due to many factors that are hard to
predict if you have not worked in one of these sorts of places. Today, for
example, I spent 3 hours trying to get a very willing and interested office
ready for a seminar I hope to present there on Thursday. This is the
culmination of 4 meetings and several phone calls, totalling at least 8 hours
(not including today's 3).

What happened was this:

The institution has 2 computers and will be buying a 3rd. They were willing and
interested in providing us over here at israel.nysernet with files to post -
but they weren't sure which files were the important ones. Most of their
material is sitting in one file directory - 10 megabytes in about 1700 files.
For those of you who know DOS, you may realize that ANY operation in a
directory that size is VERY slow. Also, there was NO backup of any of the
files. And no easy way to identify files to decide what could be deleted. And
even better, the word processing program is obsolete, requires a key disk
(which has been in constant use for 5 years), and was developed by a local
company which I am told has gone out of business. That means that there is a
Chernobyl waiting to happen. Now, certainly since I don't get paid for any of
this, and my own motivation is to promoted networking, I could consider fixing
their backup, program, and file situation not my department. But if I don't
help them, they won't really be able to participate well in the project. They
cannot hire me to fix it, because their parent organization has assigned such
task to a 3rd support company, but they cannot seem to get the help they need
from that 3rd party.

This is typical of most of those institutions that are the prime ones to
participate in the Jewish Communications Projects. There are dozens of offices
like this in Jerusalem alone.  Each one requires at least one full week of
training, motivation, selling, and technical assistance. Usually, the same
interest in networking extends to such issues as DTP, cd-rom publishing, fax,
and other communication medium.

Of course there are solutions to each of these problems - but they all take
time and effort. Each task alone is not large, but taken in aggregate, they can
be enormous. To add to the confusion, there are also the cultural problems - in
the above-mentioned office, for example, are native Israelis (both Ashkenazim
and Sefaradim), Americans, British, and French. There are 3 word processors
used, each for a fairly good reason, and a new one perhaps about to be

And this has all happened before - I have discovered several proposals that
have been made over the last 10 years to set up Jewish networks. The last one I
heard about was one written up and pursued by IBM at least 5 years ago. It
seemed that it never got off the ground in the end because of lack of funding
(maybe if they had found the money, IBM would be in better shape today )

If anyone out there knows of students or others coming to Israel to visit, and
are interested in helping the development of Jewish networking, we can place
them very quickly in any one of a number of institutions, of all sorts. There
won't be any pay, of course, but they will certainly have a good email

Avrum Goodblatt
project manager, NY-Israel project of Nysernet
Date:         Wed, 14 Apr 1993 11:52:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Medicine in Warsaw Ghetto

Date: 12 Apr 1993 00:18:39 -0600 (CST)

    Charles G. Roland. Death Under Siege: Starvation, Disease,
    and Death in the Warsaw Ghetto (Oxford UP, April 1993, 320pp
         Charles G. Roland, professor of the History of Medicine
    at McMaster U in Canada, focuses on the roles of doctors,
    nurses and aides in the Warsaw Ghetto (1941-43). He
    describes the creation of a clandestine medical school, and
    research done on starvation.
    --from publisher's blurb
Date:         Thu, 15 Apr 1993 13:30:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      NO Series Documents

From:   SMTP%""      "Danny Keren" 15-APR-1993
Subj:   NO Series Documents

I would be grateful if someone can tell me where to find the
transcripts of the original Nazi documents, presented at post-WW2
trials, of the NO series (e.g. NO-5574). At Brown's library it
is easy to locate the PS series, but I am having difficulties tracing
the NO's.


-Danny Keren.
Date:         Fri, 16 Apr 1993 09:18:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Warsaw Ghetto Uprising: 50th Anniversary Program

From:   ORG%"jem@nysernet.ORG" 15-APR-1993 09:53:19.68
To:     Multiple recipients of list 

Received: From SUVM(BITMAIL) by APSU with Jnet id 9286
          for CAMPBELLD@APSU; Thu, 15 Apr 1993 09:53 CST
Received: from SUVM by SUVM (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 7535; Thu, 15
 Apr 93 10:50:16 LCL
Received: from nysernet.ORG by SUVM.SYR.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
   Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:47:15 LCL
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:47:06 -0400
Received: from [] by nysernet.ORG (5.65/3.1.090690-NYSERnet Inc.)
        id AA01248; Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:47:06 -0400
Message-Id: <9304151445.AA01202@nysernet.ORG>
Errors-To: goodblat@nysernet.ORG
Reply-To: jem@nysernet.ORG
Sender: jem@nysernet.ORG
Precedence: bulk
From: Shelomoh*S*ZIENIUK <27916070%PLEARN.BITNET@nysernet.ORG>
To: Multiple recipients of list 
X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Jewish Electronic Mail

Mincha, Tish(a Yamim La(Omer, Yom Chamishi, Y"D b'Nisan ThShN"G;
Universita Varsha b'Varsha, Galut HaMara Meod.

Those of You visiting The Ghetto City these days might be
interested in the following events timetable  (abridged):
19:00, Fri., 16th April, '93: Kabbalat Shabbat service at the Nozyk Shul
                                (6 Twarda Street, Warsaw -- a 10 mins'
                                walk from the Palace of Science &
                                Culture: the tallest building in the
                                city's centre, & the same distance from
                                the Central Railway Station).
09:30, Sat., 17th April,  " : Shacharit L'Shabbat service, Nozyk Shul.
11:30, Sun., 18th April,  " : The Fallen Ones Memorial service, Nozyk Shul.
13:00, Sun., 18th April,  " : Memorial Ceremony at the Jewish Cemetery
                                (Okopowa Street, Warsaw).
18:00, Sun., 18th April,  " : Official Arts Programme at the Congress Hall
                                (a building adjacent to the Palace of
                                Science & Culture, which -- like the Shul
                                -- is located a quarter's walk from most of
                                downtown hotels: Bristol, Forum, Victoria,
                                Europejski, Holiday Inn, Marriott).
12:00, Mon., 19th April,  " : Laying of Wreaths at the Ghetto Heros

Shabbat Shalom UL'Hitraot B'Varsha!
Shelomoh*Slawek*ZIENIUK, student, Univ. of Warsaw (Dept. of Hebrew), Warsaw.
ani shalom v'khi adaber           hema lamilchama: -- Tehillim Q"K:Z'
Guest e-mail account: <27916070@plearn.bitnet>
Date:         Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:29:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Special Opportunity for Archival Research

From: "Meghan Laslocky, NEH" 
Subject:      Special Opportunity for Archival Research

     The National Endowment for the Humanities has undertaken an
initiative to commemorate the 2500th anniversary of the birth of
democracy and to celebrate the spread of democratic institutions
in our own time.  In pursuit of this initiative, the Endowment
now announces a special opportunity for scholars seeking support
for individual or collaborative research to be undertaken in
archives abroad.

     The Endowment is especially interested in projects
reflecting emerging opportunities for research in recently opened
archives in newly-democratized countries, such as the former
Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe or the republics of the
former Soviet Union.  Projects may address topics in any field of
the humanities, but preference will be given to projects that
investigate documents whose physical condition or whose uncertain
future access necessitates urgent attention.  Applications will
be reviewed on the basis of the significance of the project for
the humanities and the importance of the proposed archival
research to the completion of that project.  Grants will provide
limited support for travel (to a maximum of $2,800), living
expenses (not to exceed $1,250 per month), and research
expenses (including duplication of materials).  The proposed
grant period must be three or more weeks in duration, and the
total request cannot exceed a maximum of $20,000.

     This special opportunity is offered under the current
guidelines for the Division of Research programs, and
applications will be evaluated according to the "Evaluation
Criteria" published in the Guide to the Division of Research
Programs (1992): p. 24.  Applicants for this special opportunity
will be asked to submit a narrative description of the project
(not to exceed 5 single-spaced pages) outlining the methodology
and workplan of the proposed archival project, explaining the
importance of the archival collection(s) to be visited and the
research materials to be consulted, and demonstrating the impact
and significance of the project for the humanities in general.
Applicants will also be asked to indicate how access to the
research collection(s) will be secured.

     Eligibility is limited to U.S. citizens and foreign
nationals who have been living in the United States or its
jurisdictions for at least three years prior to the time of
application.  Work undertaken to satisfy requirements for an
academic degree is ineligible for support from this program.

     For information and application forms, prospective
applicants should contact

         Special Opportunity for Archival Research (S.O.A.R.)
              NEH Interpretive Research Program, Room 318
                    1100 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
                         Washington, DC  20506
                        telephone 202/606-8210

     Inquiries about the program may be directed through e-mail
E-mail messages should list "Archival Research" in the subject

      The deadline for receipt of applications is May 11, 1993.
Thereafter, proposals will be accepted for review at bi-monthly
deadlines, subject to availability of funds.
Date:         Fri, 16 Apr 1993 12:58:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Telnet access to Jewish libraries

Subject: Telnet access to Jewish libraries

Several libraries specializing in Judaica are available via telnet.  For
example, you can access JTS' library by telnetting to ''

At username, type 'ALEPH'.

You will be logged into our library catalog system.

Several other libraries (Bar Ilan, Hebrew University are just a few) also
allow for telnet access.

Naomi Steinberger ( can provide you with a list of
several sites which allow for telnet access.

Michael I. Starr                        Jewish Theological Seminary of America
Manager, Computer Operations            3080 Broadway
mistarr@JTSA.EDU                        New York, NY 10027
(212) 678-8901                          (212) 678-8002 (fax)
Date:         Mon, 19 Apr 1993 09:06:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      delete

delete holocaus chetter@UCTHPX.UCT.AC.ZA
Date:         Mon, 19 Apr 1993 09:16:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      AJIN Adds Board Member

From: ajin@nysernet.ORG (Am. Jewish Inf. Network)
Subject: AJIN Adds Board Member

For Immediate Release April 15, 1993


For further information, contact or any of the
board members listed below.

The American Jewish Information Network is pleased to announce the
addition of Caren N. Levine to its board of directors.

Ms. Levine (cnlevine@cutcv2.bitnet) is Coordinator of Central Agency
Services and Networks of the Jewish Education Service of North America
(JESNA).  A Wexner Graduate Fellow, she is studying toward a doctoral
degree in the Department of Communication, Computing and Technology in
Education at Teachers College, Columbia University. Ms. Levine earned
her B.A. from Barnard College and her M.A. from the Jewish Theological
Seminary of America.  She has also studied at The Hebrew University in

The mission of the American Jewish Information Network is:

To promote the effective use of electronic communications networks
by the American Jewish community.

To coordinate with the worldwide effort known as the global Jewish
information network, and with similar groups in other countries.

To help plan, coordinate and facilitate efforts by different groups in
the United States to make user-friendly electronic communications
accessible to all members of the Jewish community, both individuals and

To raise funds to help support the various projects needed in America
for the global Jewish information network.

To encourage and educate Jewish organizations to make the most
effective use of communications networks to communicate internally, to
communicate with their members and other Jewish organizations, and to
bring their messages to the general public.

To assist Jewish organizations and individuals in connecting to the
global Jewish information network, and train them in using the resources
of the network.

The current board of directors for AJIN now includes the following
members.                              Alan M. Gallatin                            Daniel Elazar                        Marty Block                        Jonathan Woocher                         Steve Stone                             Rachel Dunaief                              Jerry Krupnick                               Avi Feldblum                  Jeffrey Markel                          Alan Stein                  Caren Levine
lerami!kesher!               Aaron Schmiedel                         Chaim Dworkin                       Alan Sobel                       Myra Shoub Nelson                                Richard Mandelbaum                              Mark Steinberger                           Rob Slater
Date:         Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:02:42 CDT
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
From:         Richard Jensen 
Subject:      the word "Holocaust" [forwarded from History]

Subject:      The Word "Holocaust" (was Re: Ignorance of the Holocaust)
From: (Tal Kubo)
Date:         21 Apr 93 16:14:24 EDT

In article <9627@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>
naren@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Naren Bala) writes:
>>Just because people may not know what "Holocaust" specifically refers to
>>doesn't mean they don't know about Dachau or Auschwitz. [...]
>>For example, the term "Holocaust" did not signify to me the mass murder of
>>European Jews during WW II until about 10 yrs. ago. But 20 yrs. ago, when
>>I was 10 or so, I certainly knew about German concentration camps and
>>that six million Jews were killed.
>Until I heard the media in USA use the term "holocaust", I thought that
>holocaust was a generic term that meant mass destruction by fire.

The word "holocaust" is derived from a Greek word referring to the
sacrificial burning of animals.  I think this is reason enough to prefer
other less burdened terms, such as "Judeocide", "massacre of Jews", etc.

Another reason to avoid the word "holocaust" is that it is too euphemistic
and does not make specific reference to Jews or to murder.  Using such
terms one runs the risk of the cynical "appropriation" of history for
political purposes, whereby the crime is somehow depicted as universal
("crimes against humanity", the pink triangle, etc).  [If you think I'm
kidding, consider this: on this university campus the only visible symbol
at the recent ceremony marking the 50th anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto
uprising was a huge pink tetrahedron with the words "In Memory"; the campus
gay/lesbian group had insinuated itself into the organization of the
ceremony, with predictable results.]

Finally, as the previous poster notes, the word "holocaust" has been so
overused in popular media that its meaning has been completely diluted.
Elie Wiesel, one of the first to introduce the term into popular use in
the 1950's, has written that he regrets having done so, for precisely this
reason. Longer, more prosaic, more specific terms like "Nazi extermination
of European Jewry" are less susceptible to overuse and semantic drift.


p.s. People in the Boston area may be interested in a 3-part television
documentary on the history of anti-Semitism; the first part is broadcast
at 9:00 PM tonight (Wed Apr 21) on WGBH.
Date:         Thu, 22 Apr 1993 09:10:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Re: Existence of Holocaust courses

From:   SMTP%""      "George M. Kren" 21-APR-1993 19:40:53.91
Subj:   Re: Existence of Holocaust courses

I very much would appreciate it if you could locate a list of universities whic
h offer courses on the Holocaust.     Many thanks.  George M. Kren
Date:         Thu, 22 Apr 1993 10:47:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Holocaust list protocol

From:   SMTP%"" 21-APR-1993 21:37:50.89
Subj:   Holocaus List Protocol


        I was very happy to learn of the Holocaus list and promptly signed on.
So far, I've received no messages--is this usual?

        Also, I would appreciate knowing the following:

a. do you have specific lists--names, university affiliation, addresses--for
profs who teach courses on, or including, the Holocaust?  I ask because my
publisher, Texas Tech, has agreed to send brochures on two of my books to those
individuals.  The books have both been Alternate Selections for the Jewish Book
Club (very atypical for collections of poetry):

        _Blood to Remember: American Poets on the Holocaust_
        _The Death Mazurka_

b. would it be appropriate for me to announce the availability of these books on
the list?  When I spoke at the 23rd Annual Scholars' Conf. on the Holocaust and
the German Church Struggle in Tulsa last month, all copies sold out . . . but
distribution so far has been very weak and teachers who might want to use these
books may not even be aware of them.

        I'm grateful to you for starting up this list.  Currently, I'm teaching
Holocaust Literature at SUNY Farmingdale.  My proposed course, "Poetry After
Auschwitz" (taught last semester at the Univ. of Delaware, using _Blood to
Remember_), has been turned down by our benighted Dean!

Charles Fishman
Dist. Prof. of Eng & Hum
SUNY Farmingdale
Date:         Thu, 22 Apr 1993 15:22:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Need reference on Nazi medical experiments

From:   SMTP%""      "Bruce White
 3807" 22-APR-1993 15:04:55.08
Subj:   Need reference on Nazi medical experiments

I think that CNN had a story last year about some type of medical ethics
debate regarding using some of the data from Nazi medical experiments.

Are there any books which discuss these experiments? I've read a few pages
here and there in different Holocaust books, and am looking for more

--- Bruce
Date:         Fri, 23 Apr 1993 08:59:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      re Holocaust courses

From:   SMTP%"" 22-APR-1993 18:01:31.02
Subj:   same

The University of Michigan is one such place. We have, from time ti time,
history courses on the H, and ofter literature of the H courses.   Write
to Todd Endelman, Prof of History and Chair of Judaic Studies, UM, AA Mich
Date:         Tue, 27 Apr 1993 15:11:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Research information wanted [forwarded from Judaica]

From:   SMTP%""      "David Niemeijer" 27-APR-19
To:     Multiple Recipients of 
Subj:   Research Information Wanted (keywords: Poland, Jews)


For my thesis in Social Anthropology I am working on a research project on
the history of Jasliska (Yiddish: Yoshlisk), a village in south-eastern Poland
(Krosno district). In this village I conducted field research including topical
and life-history interviews with Polish villagers. I also carried out extensive
archival research in several Polish archives.

At present I am trying to get in contact with Jewish survivors or their
descendants from JASLISKA and neighbourhood. If you know anyone who fits this
category, please contact me (also for any questions concerning this
announcement). As is normal for this kind of research I guarantee strict
confidential treatment of all information.

Please do not reply to this list but contact me privately.

Thank you very much for taking notice,

Rosa Lehmann

Het Hoogt 262                     E-mail:  c/o David Niemeijer
1025 HG Amsterdam                     or
The Netherlands                                A900niem@hasara61.earn or
Fax no: 31-2155-28120                          A900niem@hasara61.bitnet

P.S. Some family names of possible survivors: MENDLOWICZ, LEJZOR, OLING,
     BEER, SZEL. (N.B: Names are not consistently spelled by the various
Date:         Tue, 27 Apr 1993 17:09:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Medical experiments

From:   SMTP%"" 27-APR-1993 17:02:05.71
Subj:   Medical experiments

Check the books by Robert Lifton and Michael Kater, as well as books on Josef M
Mengele. You can write to Kater at York University in Toronto, Canada...
Date:         Wed, 28 Apr 1993 10:00:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      Oral History Division of the Hebrew University

Subj:   File: "ORALHIS JS-ICJ"

Oral History Division of the Institute of Contemporary Jewry
Academic Director:  Dov Levin
Assistant Director:  Rikki Garti
General Field:  Contemporary Jewry

Background and Objectives:
     The Oral History Division of the Hebrew University's Institute of
Contemporary Jewry has recorded interviews with over 5,000 individuals
in 210 projects on various aspects of 20th century Jewish history and
life. Gathering this material directly from those who experienced the
relevant events, the Oral History Division preserves and provides
access to testimonies valuable to a broad spectrum of researchers in
Contemporary Jewry and related fields.
   The increasing number of interviews and growing interest in their
contents has created a need for more efficient registration and
comprehensive access to all materials available in the Oral History
Division.  Computerization of the collection has begun at the
Institute's Bibliographical Center and Contemporary Jewry Database,
available online via the ALEPH network.

Current Status:
     - As of 1979, the Oral History Division has published five
       catalogs of interviews. Many are available on microfiche and
     - Catalog No. 6, containing information and interviews recorded
       since Catalog No. 5, has been indexed, annotated, registered
       and prepared for publication by Garland Publishers in the
       summer of 1989, at the Institute of Contemporary Jewry's
       Bibliographical Center.
     - The descriptions in Catalog No. 6 are now available online at
       the Institute of Contemporary Jewry's Bibliographical Center
       through the ALEPH computer network of the Hebrew University.
Future Plans:
     - Editing of the interview, interviewee and project indexes for
       computerized registration and retrieval.
     - Updating and editing of previously published catalogs as well
       as yet unpublished material, including information registered
       in card catalogs.
     - Preparation and registration of a comprehensive subject index
       for computerized access.
     - Training interviewers to register summaries of interviews
       directly onto computers for more efficient record-keeping and
Date:         Thu, 29 Apr 1993 09:02:00 EST
Reply-To:     Holocaust List 
Sender:       Holocaust List 
Subject:      President Herzog Speech at Holocaust Museum Opening [forward from


                     WASHINGTON, D.C. - APRIL 22, 1993

This historic occasion taking place in the capital city of the leader of the
free world is so pregnant with significance as to make it  impossible  in  a
short period of time to encompass all that it represents.

Fifty years ago the Jewish people for whom I, President of the Jewish State,
serve as a spokesman here, were victims of a society and a philosophy  which
sank to the lowest depths of bestial cruelty. Six million Jews -  one  third
of our people - were annihilated by the enormously efficient machine set  up
by the Nazis and their collaborators in many of the countries of Europe. The
misery brought to the world by Nazism took a heavy toll in  many  countries,
in addition to the price paid by my people.

In Jerusalem, but a few days ago, in the world Jewish Center of  Remembrance
for the victims of the Holocaust - Yad Vashem - I addressed a nation part of
which had literally risen out of the ashes. I looked at the survivors of the
Holocaust who had come to the haven of our peole, which is Israel,  who  had
embarked on a new life and had built a new society of which we are so proud.
I saw their children and grandchildren for  whom  the  Holocaust  is  but  a
memory, a nightmare which their parents and grandparents have  recounted  to
them. This is a nightmare brought  to  life  in  our  consciousness  by  the
numbers tatooed on the arms of the survivors, who are still with us.

Again, but a few days ago, the people of Israel, the representatives of  the
Jewish people and the people  of  Poland,  led  by  President  Lech  Walesa,
commemorated in Warsaw the 50th Anniversary of the Warsaw  Ghetto  Uprising.
In that uprising,  700  scantily  armed  young  men  and  women  fought  off
thousands of well-equipped German troops in an incredible 27 days of  heroic
fighting. For them, resistance signified defiant courage and  faith  in  the
future of the Jewish people.

The flame  lit  in  Warsaw  continues  to  burn  in  our  memory,  inspiring
participation in the Israel War of Independence and subsequent struggles for
life. For the legacy of heroism and dedication, our people will  be  forever

in our capital city, Jerusalem, it is part  of  the  memory  of  the  Jewish
people throughout the world. It is part of the conscience of all peoples  in
the free world.

How appropriate are the words of the Psalmist: "For thou hast  delivered  my
soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. I will walk
before the Lord in the land of the living."

We here today, Americans, Israelis, and the representatives  of  many  other
countries, commemorate an  historic  turning  point  of  such  extraordinary
horror and evil that it dare not be forgotten - the  Holocaust,  that  great
lesson in man's capacity for inhumanity,  when  moral  restraints  are  cast

Despite random but despicable and disturbing attempts  at  denial,  we  know
that there has never been anything like that gigantic, industrialized  death
machine, exterminating hundreds and thousands daily as a matter  of  course,
and aiming to eliminate the entire Jewish people and its culture.

I speak here  not  only  as  the  President  of  Israel  just  arrived  from
Jerusalem, but as one whose own life was touched marginally  but  deeply  by
the Holocaust. Many of my family, men, women and children, were destroyed in
the Nazi gas chambers. As a young officer from Palestine, as  it  was  then,
serving in the British Army, one of a million and  a  half  Jewish  soldiers
serving in the Allied Forces, I was a member of the first Allied division to
cross the German border in the West. As  we  advanced,  we  encountered  the
still hardly known horror of the concentration camps. Nobody who  saw  those
terrifying scenes will ever forget them. I was later one of a small group to
whom Himmler, chief perpetrator of the vast ghastly murder, surrendered, and
was present at the surrender of the northern German army, Armee Gruppe  Ems.
When we reached Bergen Belsen, we were shattered by the horrifying  evidence
of starvation, torture and disease, and by  the  final  epidemic  of  typhus
raging there. To one who has seen anything of the Holocaust even marginally,
it ceases to be an abstract concept and becomes a searing actuality never to
be forgotten.

In  this  audience  are  many  who  survived  the  ghastly  horrors  of  the
concentration camps, after  having  seen  their  near  ones  and  dear  ones
annihilated, including some of the one-and-a-half  million  innocent  Jewish
children who were exterminated.

A few years ago, on the occasion of the first historic State  Visit  to  the
Federal Republic of Germany  of  the  President  of  Israel,  President  von
Weizsacker escorted me to the same camp, Bergen Belsen, and shared the agony
of remembrance. Indeed, my State Visits as President of Israel took me to  a
number of concentration camps in Germany, in Czechoslovakia, in  Poland  and
in Holland. In each of these camps we dedicated a rock  from  the  hills  of
Jerusalem, bearing the words of the psalm, "and my sorrow is forever  before
me", and I swore on behalf of my people never to forget, never to forgive.

For us in Israel, which was to become the refuge of hundreds of thousands of
survivors, the claims of rehabilitation  and  new  life  are  paramount.  We
lament the many who might have been with us, and we sorrow for the  vitality
and talents lost, not only to us but to humanity as a whole. Sadly recalling
that there were those who knew and didn't act, we are determined to maintain
a strong, viable and independent country based on the memories of the  past,
the hopes for the future, the dignity of man and the equality of all  before
God, a tower of strength, a haven when needed.

The United States of America led the free world to victory in  the  struggle
against evil, against the Nazi regime and its allies in so many countries in
Europe. It led the free world in demolishing and eradicating the wicked Nazi
and Fascist regimes. It has always been in the  forefront  of  the  struggle
against wickedness and tyranny as it was,  indeed,  but  two  years  ago  in
Operation Desert Storm.

Its major role in bringing this Museum into being is a natural corollary  of
its defense of freedom. The governments of the  United  States  led  by  the
Presidents - past and present - have, in keeping with the  great  traditions
of this country, and mindful of the  lessons  to  be  learnt  for  humanity,
generously contributed to the establishment of this center.  In  this,  too,
the United States has adopted its natural role of leadership for  which  all
free people in the world must be forever grateful.  In  this  connection,  I
wish to pay tribute to the Holocaust Memorial Council, headed by Mr.  Harvey
Meyerhoff, for its enterprise and successful achievement  which  is  evident
before our eyes today.

Nazism, Fascism and Racism have taught us and revealed to us  the  depth  to
which the human being can descend. For us, one of the major lessons has been
that it is not sufficient to have justice on your side, it is  essential  to
be strong enough to defend it. We learned that there is only one  answer  to
dictatorship and tyranny, and that  is  to  stand  up  and  fight  and  meet
challenges head on.

For my people and for the State of Israel, the memory of the victims of  the
Holocaust is not only treausred as a memory, but as a moral imperative which
binds us.

But how are new generations, removed in time, to learn the  lessons  of  the
Holocaust, so that mankind learns its lesson and we are all  convinced  that
such tragedies can never be duplicated? How much a museum can  do,  we  have
learned in Israel from the role played by the  main  central  and  universal
Holocaust memorial  institution,  Yad  Vashem,  in  Jerusalem.  The  details
recalled by the fraction that survived, the historic evidence  painstakingly
gathered, are all stones in the structure of commemoration.

May this new museum, situated in the capital of the free world, in  exposing
the  unspeakable  evil  and  suffering  of  the  Holocaust,  strengthen  the
commitment to life, to tolerance and human kinship, among all who visit  it,
indeed, among the generations to come.

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.