Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dbtech.net!usenet From: "Thomas Stedham"
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Could someone explain this? Date: 27 Dec 1996 02:48:51 GMT Organization: db Technology Lines: 19 Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp78.dbtech.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 I found this on a site, and I don't understand. Is this _really_ in the Torah? And if so, is it still valid today? < Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old). < Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old. < Kethuboth 11b . "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing." -- "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against Tyranny in government." ---Thomas Jefferson--- Thomas Stedham is email@example.com Path: news.voyager.net!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Could someone explain this? Date: 27 Dec 1996 02:41:32 -0500 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 61 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net In article <email@example.com>, Thomas Stedham wrote: >I found this on a site, and I don't understand. Is this _really_ in the >Torah? And if so, is it still valid today? The three citations are not from the Torah. They are references to the Talmud. I will have to check the first reference to see what it really says, but I know from prior research how the other two references are distorted. The first one probably is as well, since Sanhedrin is largely concerned with death penalty law, not marital law. >< Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, >three years "and a day" old). > >< Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is >less than nine years old. Due to a legal technicality, homosexual sex between an adult male and a male child does not incur the death penalty as would homosexual sex between two adult males. Instead the crime is punished by whipping. There was a strong resistance to the death penalty - it was said that a Sanhedrin (think of it as a Supreme Court) which executed someone once every seven years was a bloodthirsty court, to which another rabbi replied that even once in seventy years was excessive. The least technicality in the wording would be used to justify changing the penalty from death to whipping. This was in part for their own protection - carrying out an unjust death penalty was thought to be a worse sin on the part of the rabbis than failure to carry out an execution. The discussion does not mean that the act is permissible - in tractate Makkoth, which discusses the laws relevant to the punihment of whipping, there is no age-based exception to the penalty. (The Talmud is organized rather strangely - rather than grouping similar crimes together and talking about how the punishments change depending on the circumstances, it groups crimes together by the type of punishment. Death penalty law is generally collected in Sanhedrin; whipping in Makkoth; a kind of spiritual excommunication known as _kareth_ is discussed in tractate Kerithoth.) >< Kethuboth 11b . "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl >it is nothing." The subject of discussion is the marital property rights of virgins vs. nonvirgins. Virgins have greater entitlements. The rabbis discussed the hypothetical case of a girl raped at an age less than three years old - for the purposes of her rights at marriage, is she considered a virgin or a nonvirgin? The answer is that she is considered a virgin. The quotation is out of context - _for the purposes of determining her rights,_ if a girl less than three has sex with a man, it is nothing. The phrase "it is nothing" is a common Talmudic idiom meaning "it has no bearing on the matter under discussion" (in this case, her property rights at marriage). It does NOT mean "it is perfectly acceptable." Hope this helps. Posted/emailed. -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
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