The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/von.ebersdorf.johannes/usenet/2009/v.ebersdorf.200904


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2005521 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:49:41 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:51:01 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> 
>> Sliming people is a standard technique of the holocaust™ industry, and
>> Irving is by no means the first victim. 
>
>In this case David Irving was not a victim, since almost everything
>Deborah Lipstadt had written criticizing his professional misconduct could
>easily be demonstrated to be factually true, enough additional examples
>could be presented to demonstrate that she had identified a pattern of
>systematic professional misconduct rather than errors due to sloppiness or
>igorance, and the two cases that could not be demonstrated to be factually
>true could be shown to be based on David Irving's own accounts of his
>exploits and thus could not be considered maliciously false even if there
>were no independent facts available to demonsrate them to be true.
>
>> He was probably throwing good
>> money after bad in trying to get people like Lipstadt to lay off using
>> the courts.
>
>Your sentence doesn't make sense. Deborah Lipstadt was not the one
>resorting to use of the courts in this particular case.

Nobody said she was. Irving was trying to get the woman off his back
with her character assassination techniques, but the British courts
proved to be worthless in terms of protecting him from Lipstadt and
her big-money backers.

Hiring a nice death squad from El Salvador would have been cheaper and
a lot more effective than the British courts, but then that technique
tends to have other complications that follow.

>David Irving
>thought that once Prof. Lipstadt's book was published on his home turf,
>where libel law favors the plaintiff, he could use the court to silence
>critics by having legitimate professional criticism of his work,
>methodology, and public behavior declared libelous consequent to suing the
>critic and her publisher. The strategem, ill advised in a culture where
>public criticism of malpractice is the professional responsiblity of the
>community offended, didn't work. 
>
>David Irving wanted to be regarded as a brilliant and iconoclastic
>historian, so he got his name into the spotlight and constructed a
>reputation for himself by consistently falsifying and fabricating crucial
>details concerning his primay data. Historian Deborah Lipstadt collected
>several examples of such unacceptable professional behavior and brought it
>to the attention of her professional community and the public at large.
>David Irving never denied his professional misconduct, but he tried to
>hijack the British court system to prevent legitimate criticism of his
>professional misconduct from reaching the wider public and his potential
>future readership.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2005522 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 1, 5:48 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>   Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>   Invading the U.S.S.R. did not work out too well for you guys.

If Hitler hadn't invaded the USSR, the USSR would undoubtedly have
invaded Germany by July of 1941. Germany bought a few more years of
survival through the pre-emptive invasion. All the Soviet positions
shouted "pending invasion" rather than being defensive in nature.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2005523 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>> >> by James Buchanan
>>
>> >> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>> >> political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>> >   How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>>
>> What is special about May 1?
>   It was the day after Hitler killed himself.

The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services that
decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another one
of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly become
the pattern of allied "liberations".


>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2005525 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:33:11 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:8pr4t45bjh4lnr551a99qe0f6nipktoii6@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:34:47 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:pkn4t45nu0a1hk71v244t3vg1ktnnhd0ib@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:59:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:ftm1t4trursgmfr8t4v8jkfn40n05mgqhv@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:24:11 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ese1t459hkcgejphoibtvs5pcffmum731s@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:56:24 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Disputing some aspect or another of the Norman Conquest or the feats
>>>>>>>> of Alexander the Great will not get you thrown in jail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>WRONG! If you are in the UK and you deny the Norman invasion and the
>>>>>>>consequent seccession of Monarchs you may come under a criminal 
>>>>>>>offence
>>>>>>>which related to insulting the Monarch which you may believe is not a
>>>>>>>Monarch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your current German royal family has no connection whatsoever with the
>>>>>> Normans, except for being monarchs of the same state.
>>>>>
>>>>>Due to the war of the roses leading to tudors and the hanoverian
>>>>>succession
>>>>>due to william III invasion I will accept that criticism. and withdraw 
>>>>>the
>>>>>remark as unsupported
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_line_of_succession
>>>>>
>>>>>However under the post monarchy irish constitutional Republic and in the
>>>>>current British monarchy the offence of blastphemy still exists as far 
>>>>>as
>>>>>I
>>>>>know. so while denying the Normans of a thousand years ago many or may 
>>>>>not
>>>>>be a crime denying christ of two thousand years ago is! Not alone that 
>>>>>but
>>>>>people are and have been killed for beliefs related to Christianity from
>>>>>christ himself through martyrs up to people killed by fundamentalist
>>>>>christians today.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the Brits need to clean the cobwebs out of their statute
>>>> books. Blasphemy is rather ambiguous, since it depends entirely on
>>>> whose superstitions you are criticizing.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not just the British. Ireland is a constitutional Republic but does indeed
>>>have common law continuation from the British. but to be honest codified
>>>systems have other problems . But that is a different topic to historic 
>>>laws
>>>still applying today. I believe I have shown that they do and in face
>>>PRECEDENT is all about this so Holocaust denial is not the only crime 
>>>based
>>>on insisting and interpretation of history as true.
>>
>> Yes, there are indeed precedents for the holocaustT laws, but not in
>> the most recent two or three centuries. The Roman Church had a long
>> history of keeping its lies afloat by burning people at the stake,
>> poking their eyes out, or throwing them into dungeons, but even such
>> extreme measures were not able to suppress the truth forever.
>
>That is nonsence! the RC Church did very little in the way of this . the 
>Inquisition in various guises lasted for about five hundred years. In that 
>time at most thousands were executed by it. While I do not justify it 
>compared to other acts from that time it isnt huge. for example the 
>atheistic purge arising during the terror in one place in France (the 
>Vendee) say the execution of more catholics then the entire five centuries 
>of the Inquisition. Indeed the worst Inquisitions (Spanish and Portugese) 
>targeted Jews. But it wasnt about "surpressing the truth" but more about 
>rooting out heresy. And In the Spanish case it became totally corrupted 
>because the Inquisitors took over the possessions and land of the person 
>they accused - nothing to do even with a misguided notion of a conspiracy to 
>surpress truth.
>
>again I suspect you wil produce NO FACTS about how many people were burned 
>at the stake and in what years it happened in spite of your "long history" 
>of doing it claim!
>
>So much for your claims about history standing on its own! I am a real 
>revisionist. You are an interloper. you haven't a clue and it seems you 
>don't want to learn either preferring your biased bigotry to informed 
>opinion.

There are no historical supports for your claim of "at most a few
thousand" victims of the witch hunts, heretic hunts, etc. of the
Church of Rome, probably the most evil institution ever to exist in
human history. I'm glad that Luther and the German Princes managed to
destroy its influence in Germany.

>
>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Historical facts tend to stand on their own and do not require
>>>>>>>> legislative protection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Examples???
>>>>>>>Have you ANY example to support this contention? Say three examples?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The holocaust is unique in requiring legislative support.
>>>>>
>>>>>Have you examples of any others which you claim "stand on their own" and
>>>>>"do
>>>>>not require legislative support"? what historical fact do you claim
>>>>>"stands
>>>>>on its own"?
>>>>>Can you give an example of three such "FACTS" which you seem so suer 
>>>>>stand
>>>>>on theior own and are facts?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ill bet you cant cite one from the last 500 years one from the 1000 
>>>>>years
>>>>>before that and noe from over 2000 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>In spite of saying all of history is a collection of "FACTS" that stand 
>>>>>on
>>>>>their own  you cant even cite three from the last 2500 years! Can you?
>>>
>>>evasion noted. In spie of saying everything else apart from the Holocaust
>>>stands on its own you can't cite three examples from the ennumerable ones 
>>>in
>>>history!
>>>LOL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Clearly the holocaustT story is in need of
>>>>>>>> legislative protection and in need of rat packs like the McFee-McVay
>>>>>>>> duo to threaten, intimidate and cajole people into paying lip 
>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>> to the story whether they actually believe it or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No. Im my country holocaust denial is NOT a crime
>>>>>[snip]
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2005527 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: freed from holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Mar 31, 11:07 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Mar 27, 10:14 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:735t7sFrf6pcU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> >> > Greek court officials said judges overturned Friday a far-rightist's
>> >> > conviction for inciting racial hatred with a book that denies the
>> >> > Holocaust took place.
>>
>> >> That is splendid news.
>>
>> >> Now to overturn the convictions and sentences of Germar Rudolf, Ernst
>> >> Zundel, Stolz et al.
>> >   On what basis?
>>
>> Political "propaganda offences" have no place in a democracy.
>>
>   Yes, but the laws would have to be changed first, followed with
>pardons.
>
>   Judges would not be able to overturn those convictions on there
>own; there is no legal protection of freedom of speech in those
>places.

In Germany, supposedly there actually IS freedom of speech and freedom
of opinion, so the propaganda laws are probably unconstitutional, but
it would be very difficult for any lawyer to challenge them in court
without himself falling victim to the legislation. That is exactly why
the aforementioned defendants didn't get much legal representation
because the lawyers representing them do so at great personal risk.
Several lawyers have found themselves in the prisoner's docket for
something they said trying to defend their clients.

In Canada, lawyers such as Douglas Christie do not have to fear court
reprisals for defending their clients.


>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2005528 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: racing old jew stuns police
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:36:51 -0700 (PDT), z 
wrote:

>On Mar 29, 12:23 am, william hubbard 
>wrote:
>> On Mar 28, 12:00 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Police officers surprised: Traffic police in Israel are used to nabbbing
>> > young drivers traveling at high speed, yet on Saturday officers on Highway
>> > 65 were in for a surprise - A motorist nabbed traveling at 191 kilometers an
>> > hour (roughly 120 miles an hour) turned out to be an 83-year-old man.
>>
>> > The elderly speed junky told police he was in a rush to get home.
>>
>> > The man, who was traveling in a Subaru at more than double the speed limit,
>> > does not have a long history of traffic violations, the police said.
>> > However, officials noted that he has been convicted of traveling above the
>> > spend limit several times.
>>
>> > The speeding driver's license was revoked on the spot, and he will face
>> > justice at the local traffic court.
>>
>> > Only two and a half weeks ago, a 21-year-old Palestinian from Ramallah was
>> > nabbed while traveling at 215 kilometers an hour on Highway 1, en route to
>> > the Dead Sea. The speed limit on the highway is 90 kilometers an hour.
>>
>> i suspect it was a WRX, and it is good to know that the old man has
>> such enthusiasm..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Here's another:
>
>"Woman accused of driving 103 with grandson in car
>Mar 31st, 2009 | SALEM, Ore. -- Authorities arrested a woman accused
>of driving 103 mph with her 10-year-old grandson in the car. Sheriff's
>Lt. Sheila Lorance said Deputy Ryan Postlewait saw the woman's Mazda 6
>whizz by on Hylo Road on Sunday, and he confirmed the speed on a radar
>gun. Though the road is known to attract speeders, Postlewait reported
>that he has never clocked anyone driving that fast."
>http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/2009/03/31/D979BOK01_odd_speeding_grandmother/index.html

100 mph is only 160 km/h. There was a recent case here in Ontario
where a young man was clocked at 260 km/h on one of the local
highways. I can't remember the make of the car, however.

>
>it's an international epidemic
>
>my theory is that the speed limit should be equal to your age.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2005533 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:10 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:1qq4t41c7o2r9n0v9h33uph60bvnh8gmrf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:32:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>news:CsmdnZPaZOVxpl7UnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>> Jesus was a Jew himself.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure about that?  You can prove that?
>>>>
>>>The historicity of Jesus is an established field of research.
>>>But if anyone believes in Jesus Christ existing in the past then it is
>>>ludicrous to believe he was NOT a Jew.
>>>If one is claiming that Jesus Christ never existed then claiming he was or
>>>was not a Jew is pointless since one assigning an attribute to something
>>>which does not exist - a bit like saying the dragon was BLUE. It is
>>>pointless to argue about whether they are blue red or yellow if your main
>>>point is that dragons never existed.
>>>
>>>As it happens though the historicity of Jesus is as established (or 
>>>probably
>>>more established) as say Alexander the Great for example.
>>
>> Actually no, since lots of people saw or experienced Alexander the
>> Great,
>
>Really?
>And your evidence is?
>Lots of people also saw and experienced Jesus by the way.

Nonsense. Jesus wrote nothing, built nothing, founded nothing, and
simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who wrote the
scriptures.

>What evidence do you have from "lots" of people? I am aware of at most maybe 
>a dozen sources which can be traced to that time. and even THEY are not 
>original extant sources. Most sources are from CENTURIES later. in fact I am 
>only aware of maybe ONE or TWO artifacts which date from the time of 
>alexander which may be construed as a reference to him.

That is all crap. There are Persian records of Alexander's exploits,
Indian records of Alexander's exploits, Egyptian records of
Alexander's exploits and a whole trail of new Greek states and cities
in his wake. It is extremely unlikely that all these different people
living in different societies were all stoned on pot at the same time
and saw hallucinations that were coordinated. 

Silly statements such as yours are one of the reasons that the term
"Christian" has become a synonym for "drooling imbecile".

>
>>whereas the only references to Jesus are in the Christian
>> scriptures,
>
>WRONG! Roman historians wrote of him and others outsede of the accepted 
>canon of Holy scriptures.

Show me just ONE non scriptural reference to Jesus, and you will
become world famous, since you will be the only person ever to have
produced one.

> But my poiint is that people accepted Jesus 
>existed (whether or not he was God).

Religious folks accept all manner of stuff without evidence or proof.
That is the nature of a religion.


> few say he didnt. 

The bulk of the world's people would dispute the divinity of Christ,
and even a few Christians.

>More however seem to 
>think the Holocaust which has loads more evidence didn't happen.

Show me some physical evidence that will stand up to scientific
scrutiny for the "jumping buckets of flesh" stories, or the
"flame-belching crematoria". Obviously there actually WAS a
significant death toll among Jews, but that isn't quite the same thing
as uncritically and naively accepting every ridiculous fable that is
in circulation about that period.

>
>>all written at least a century after the traditional date
>> of the crucifixion.
>
>Not necessarily true. some may be first century. Certainly the second 
>century stuff refers to the earlier works of which people do not have whole 
>copies. But what about Alexander the Great?  The things written about him 
>are from books at least THREE centuries later! not ONE but THREE!

There was much material written about Alexander DURING his lifetime,
especially by his Persian and Greek enemies. Those count as
independent verification because they were not penned by followers and
lackeys of the person under consideration.

>
>>There is no independent verification of Christ's
>> existence, whereas there are plentiful references to Alexander the
>> Great,
>
>Really? Suppose you produce say five or six of these "plentiful" references. 

Good Lord, woman, go into any library and there are still plentiful
references to Alexander, despite the campaign of the Church of Rome to
have all records of antiquity destroyed.

>Ill bet you cant produce one because I have studied the field

If that is the case, then it wasn't much of an educational
institution.

> and I expect 
>you wont find a SINGLE reference! go on produce five of these "plenty" can 
>you?
>
>>especially since Alexander overthrew a lot of existing states
>> and founded a number of cities.
>
>Did he? and you know that because? You seem to believe it without seeing ANY 
>evidence! Yet whenh it comes to the holocaust you doubt all the loads of 
>evidence. why dont you apply even a tiny amount of that doubt for Alexander 
>for whom you have seen no extant evidence?
>
>Mind you all the more reason to be amazed at the son of a Carpenter being 
>remembered MORE then and written MORE about than the Greatest General in 
>history and the conquerer of the world at the time!

Most of the Bible stories come under the heading of fables, and cannot
be confused with history. All human religions, including yours,
consist of fables and legends. They all have the same validity.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2005539 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Canadian anti-Semitic incidents rise
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:29:53 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:73hehnFssmpnU1@mid.individual.net...
>> OTTAWA : Anti-Semitism in Canada is "at an all-time high," according to 
>> the findings of an annual audit.
>>
>> Anti-Semitic incidents in Canada rose by 8.9 percent in 2008 over the 
>> previous year, due partly to the sour economy, according to B'nai Brith 
>> Canada's League for Human Rights. Its 2008 Audit of Anti-Semitic Incidents 
>> released Tuesday tallied 1,135 incidents, representing a more than a 
>> four-fold increase in incidents over the past decade.
>>
>> The findings "offer a paradoxical view of the state of anti-Jewish 
>> prejudice in Canada," said Frank Dimant, B'nai Brith Canada's executive 
>> vice president. "On one hand we have a government that has made it a 
>> priority to root out hatred and an official Liberal opposition that also 
>> recognizes the widespread anti-Jewish prejudice against our community."
>>
>> Jews are again being scapegoated, "this time by disgruntled citizens 
>> impacted by an ailing economy," the audit said. It is no accident, 
>> according to the audit, that 547 incidents -- nearly half the total in 
>> Canada -- took place in the final four months of 2008.
>>
>> "We attribute this to the fallout from the developing economic recession 
>> and such high-profile fiascos as the Bernard Madoff scandal," B'nai Brith 
>> Canada said in a news release.
>>
>> December saw the highest total of the year with 151 incidents -- 70 were 
>> related to the start of Israel's military operation in Gaza, the 
>> organization noted. Of these, 36 occurred in the last few days of the year 
>> as tensions heightened.
>> __________________
>>
>
>The reason is the mass immigration/invasion of islamonazi pigs to
>Canada. At the local university in Southern California where I live
>we NEVER had problems w/public anti-semitic bullshit until the muslime
>pigs showed up. 

Crap. There are a handful of Muslims in Canada, and the vast bulk of
them are productive and law-abiding citizens. There are a handful of
extremists, but they have little influence in Canada and neither do
Christian extremists.

American hate-mongers and ridiculous bigots like yourself are
nauseating.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2005799 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:49:39 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/31/2009 12:03 AM, Eugene Holman wrote:
>
>> In article , Gord
>>  McFee  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/30/2009 9:00 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>>>> This material does appear to be written on a German typewriter,
>>>> but then it didn't surface until 1947, so Americans getting hold
>>>> of German typewriters would have been no problem. Anything that
>>>> was ever in allied hands is suspect, and cannot simply be taken
>>>> at face value. The paper would need to be analyzed to make sure
>>>> that it is consistent with the ministry allegedly involved, the
>>>> typewriter ink would need chemical analysis to make sure that it
>>>> was of German origin, and numerous other physical aspects.
>>> I guess I should have expected something like that.  First you
>>> claim the document were not written by a German speaking person.
>>> Then, when it is clear it was, you have to resort to the forgery
>>> gambit.
>> 
>> And if the chemical analysis demonstrated everything to be of German 
>> origin he could accuse the chemists of bias, being paid by the Jews,
>> or (gasp!) of being Jews themselves. These folks never give up and
>> are never convinced. It's always a matter of supervising the people
>> who supervise the supervisors.
>
>Indeed.  They are unable and unwilling to approach the issue empirically
>because their minds are already made up.

That accusation fits you a hell of a lot better than it fits me.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2005800 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:53:47 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/31/2009 2:24 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:33 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/30/2009 9:00 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:45:27 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:54:04 -0400, in 
>>>>> , Johannes von 
>>>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:40:32 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The language used in the Wannsee Protocol is dry,
>>>>>>>>> arcane bureaucratic German, yes.  I have never said
>>>>>>>>> otherwise. Ben, you know I am a bureaucrat.  I am the
>>>>>>>>> first to admit that bureaucrats do not write beautiful
>>>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>> Having seen photocopies of the Wannsee Protocols, I would
>>>>>>>> say that dry arcane German is the least of their
>>>>>>>> problems. It seems, like in so many other cases, that the
>>>>>>>> originals are nowhere to be found and all that remains
>>>>>>>> are these allied "official" copies of a copy that were
>>>>>>>> clearly typed on an American typewriter.
>>>>>>> That is simply invention on your part.
>>>>>> I've seen quite a few obvious forgeries. The only invention
>>>>>> was on the part of the Americans/British who created the
>>>>>> documents.
>>>>> Then I would be interested in your take on the Wannsee
>>>>> Protokoll original here:
>>>> This material does appear to be written on a German typewriter,
>>>> but then it didn't surface until 1947, so Americans getting hold
>>>> of German typewriters would have been no problem. Anything that
>>>> was ever in allied hands is suspect, and cannot simply be taken
>>>> at face value. The paper would need to be analyzed to make sure
>>>> that it is consistent with the ministry allegedly involved, the
>>>> typewriter ink would need chemical analysis to make sure that it
>>>> was of German origin, and numerous other physical aspects.
>>> I guess I should have expected something like that.  First you
>>> claim the document were not written by a German speaking person.
>> 
>> I didn't say anything about it being written by a German-speaking 
>> person. That was your straw man. The allies surely had some 
>> German-speaking employees capable of putting something like this 
>> together, but that hardly proves that the item is genuine or even 
>> significant.
>> 
>> The infamous Zimmermann telegraph of WW1 was a forgery created in 
>> Toronto, and that only become public more than half a century after 
>> the fact.
>> 
>> I really don't trust any documents that have ever been in allied 
>> hands. They have a long, long history of fraud.
>
>Very convenient, since all the captured documents were in some allied
>hands at some point, so you neatly dismiss every single Nazi document.
>The Führer would be proud.
>
>By the way, can you provide a scintilla of support fr your fairy tale
>that the Zimmerman telegram was fake?
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram
>
>Of course you can't.

Take your whine to the Toronto Star. They published a story a few
years ago indicating that the so-called Zimmermann telegram was
fabricated in Toronto.

Besides, no German foreign minister would ever send such a thing by
telegram, a medium that is easily intercepted. With that content, the
message would have been delivered personally and written in code.

Your continuous demands for "proof" are getting sillier by the day. I
don't keep a running log of everything I read just in case I encounter
the McFee jackass on usenet some future year.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2005801 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:57:54 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/31/2009 2:27 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:04:47 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/30/2009 9:09 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:46:52 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:04:36 -0000, in 
>>>>> <8c163$49ceaf9a$596480f8$25997@news.upc.ie>, "Mavisbeacon" 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> And for his next trick, Cramer will claim that original gospels
>>>>>> don't exiat and no original copies of Homer, or of the writings
>>>>>> of Plato and Aristotle or of the teachings of Socrates. So based
>>>>>> on that he will argue that Jesus didnt exist or alexander the
>>>>>> Great or socrates or the Normans or anything else in history for
>>>>>> which he has not seen the original copies of anything written by
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> do people not find it strange that he seems only to douby the
>>>>>> WWII Holocaust and not apply the same degree of doubt to things
>>>>>> with much less evidence?
>>>>> Not in the slightest.  He is a Holocaust denier and that is their 
>>>>> modus operandi.
>>>> You're being rather silly, olde gourd.
>>> I take it Cramer has fled the scene for a while and you are the substitute?
>> 
>> Mr. Cramer's only connection to me is that we sometimes battle the
>> same idiots on this newsgroup. We most likely would not see eye to eye
>> on many topics, but here the opponents are so fanatical, hysterical
>> and bigoted that somebody has to offer some opposition to their
>> nonsense.
>
>So you are the substitute.  Pity.

Gourd, if you had a brain you would be dangerous.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2005803 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:20:44 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:49:41 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> >
>> >Your sentence doesn't make sense. Deborah Lipstadt was not the one
>> >resorting to use of the courts in this particular case.
>> 
>> Nobody said she was. Irving was trying to get the woman off his back
>> with her character assassination techniques,...
>
>How was Deborah Lipstadt using "character assassination techniques"? She
>wrote that he was a dishonest historian, something that had been known
>since David Irving's lost libel suit and the fallout from his book about
>the bombing of Dresden,

Irving's book on Dresden is consistent with the observations and
recollections of people who were there. Lipstadt is just another paid
propagandist whose job it is to excuse or minimize allied crimes.

> and she backed up her claims with concrete and
>undeniable examles. If you accuse someone of professional malpractice and
>then support your accusation with dozens of examples, you are not engaging
>in character assassination, but rather doing the public a service.
>
>> but the British courts
>> proved to be worthless in terms of protecting him from Lipstadt and
>> her big-money backers.
>
>Quite the opposite. The British courts proved that they cannot be hijacked
>to protect a British citizen from accusations of malpractice leveled by a
>foreigner if the accusations are demonstrably true. 
> 
>> Hiring a nice death squad from El Salvador would have been cheaper and
>> a lot more effective than the British courts, but then that technique
>> tends to have other complications that follow.
>
>Is that really the way that you think people courageous enough to expose
>serial malpractioners should be dealt with? You have no problems with
>wannabe historians whose "sensational discoveries" turn out to be nothing
>more than manipulation of dates and deliberately mistranslating documents?
>Do you also recommend the El Salvadoran method of termination with extreme
>prejudice to be used on people who expose cow doctors practicing medicine
>on humans?
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2005805 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
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On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:09:02 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/31/2009 2:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:32:54 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/30/2009 9:39 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:19:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>>>> Who started what is debatable. I see you are sticking to the
>>>>>>  thoughtless allied propaganda claims. That is part of the
>>>>>> reason I reject the rest of your stories. AJP Taylor's book
>>>>>> "The Origins of the Second World War" makes some sense,
>>>>>> whereas you never have.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> I have read his book more than once and there is a great deal
>>>>> of truth in it.  Actually, his book is an example of
>>>>> *legitimate* revisionism.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But the fact remains that Hitler invaded Poland after having
>>>>> been explicitly told, several months before, that if he did so,
>>>>> treaty obligations would require England to intervene.
>>>> Britain said that the Polish frontier wasn't worth the bones of a
>>>>  single British grenadier, and suddenly allowing Poland to keep a
>>>> few square kilometres of stolen German land was worth the
>>>> sacrifice of more than fifty million people. Poland was merely an
>>>> excuse to try to legitimize a war that Churchill had planned for
>>>> years.
>>> Even if that were true, which it isn't,
>> 
>> We have only your assertion for that, and it simply isn't worth much.
>> 
>No, we have both German and British documents that confirm it.

Bullshit.

>
>>> the fact remains that Hitler knew before he invaded Poland that
>>> Britain was obliged to come to Poland's defence.
>> 
>> Nonsense. Britain didn't come to Poland's defence since they said not
>>  a peep about the simultaneous Soviet invasion.
>
>They declared war.

Britain wanted war for its own reasons, not to "save" Poland. They
didn't give a flying shit about Poland.

>
>>>>> And Goebbels and his wife murdered their own children.
>>>> I guess they saw visions of Nemmersdorf and numerous other places
>>>> the allies visited.
>>> No, they were simply fanatical and selfish.

That is just your simple-minded historical tripe.

>> 
>> No, you're simply full of shit.
>
>Ah, when trumped, insult the other person.  Mr Webb has you bunch pegged.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2005807 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
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On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>>>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>>>>> by James Buchanan
>>>>>> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>>>>>> political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>>>>>   How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>>>> What is special about May 1?
>>>   It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>> 
>> The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services that
>> decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
>> machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
>> appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
>> special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
>> catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
>> had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another one
>> of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly become
>> the pattern of allied "liberations".
>
>I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.

LOL

When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.

It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2005810 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:56:39 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:1n5at41lj3a7dpvna952mri0lbg0vlv4sr@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:33:11 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:8pr4t45bjh4lnr551a99qe0f6nipktoii6@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:34:47 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:pkn4t45nu0a1hk71v244t3vg1ktnnhd0ib@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:59:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:ftm1t4trursgmfr8t4v8jkfn40n05mgqhv@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:24:11 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:ese1t459hkcgejphoibtvs5pcffmum731s@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:56:24 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Disputing some aspect or another of the Norman Conquest or the 
>>>>>>>>>> feats
>>>>>>>>>> of Alexander the Great will not get you thrown in jail.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>WRONG! If you are in the UK and you deny the Norman invasion and the
>>>>>>>>>consequent seccession of Monarchs you may come under a criminal
>>>>>>>>>offence
>>>>>>>>>which related to insulting the Monarch which you may believe is not 
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>Monarch.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your current German royal family has no connection whatsoever with 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Normans, except for being monarchs of the same state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Due to the war of the roses leading to tudors and the hanoverian
>>>>>>>succession
>>>>>>>due to william III invasion I will accept that criticism. and withdraw
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>remark as unsupported
>>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_line_of_succession
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>However under the post monarchy irish constitutional Republic and in 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>current British monarchy the offence of blastphemy still exists as far
>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>know. so while denying the Normans of a thousand years ago many or may
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>be a crime denying christ of two thousand years ago is! Not alone that
>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>people are and have been killed for beliefs related to Christianity 
>>>>>>>from
>>>>>>>christ himself through martyrs up to people killed by fundamentalist
>>>>>>>christians today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that the Brits need to clean the cobwebs out of their statute
>>>>>> books. Blasphemy is rather ambiguous, since it depends entirely on
>>>>>> whose superstitions you are criticizing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not just the British. Ireland is a constitutional Republic but does 
>>>>>indeed
>>>>>have common law continuation from the British. but to be honest codified
>>>>>systems have other problems . But that is a different topic to historic
>>>>>laws
>>>>>still applying today. I believe I have shown that they do and in face
>>>>>PRECEDENT is all about this so Holocaust denial is not the only crime
>>>>>based
>>>>>on insisting and interpretation of history as true.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there are indeed precedents for the holocaustT laws, but not in
>>>> the most recent two or three centuries. The Roman Church had a long
>>>> history of keeping its lies afloat by burning people at the stake,
>>>> poking their eyes out, or throwing them into dungeons, but even such
>>>> extreme measures were not able to suppress the truth forever.
>>>
>>>That is nonsence! the RC Church did very little in the way of this . the
>>>Inquisition in various guises lasted for about five hundred years. In that
>>>time at most thousands were executed by it. While I do not justify it
>>>compared to other acts from that time it isnt huge. for example the
>>>atheistic purge arising during the terror in one place in France (the
>>>Vendee) say the execution of more catholics then the entire five centuries
>>>of the Inquisition. Indeed the worst Inquisitions (Spanish and Portugese)
>>>targeted Jews. But it wasnt about "surpressing the truth" but more about
>>>rooting out heresy. And In the Spanish case it became totally corrupted
>>>because the Inquisitors took over the possessions and land of the person
>>>they accused - nothing to do even with a misguided notion of a conspiracy 
>>>to
>>>surpress truth.
>>>
>>>again I suspect you wil produce NO FACTS about how many people were burned
>>>at the stake and in what years it happened in spite of your "long history"
>>>of doing it claim!
>>>
>>>So much for your claims about history standing on its own! I am a real
>>>revisionist. You are an interloper. you haven't a clue and it seems you
>>>don't want to learn either preferring your biased bigotry to informed
>>>opinion.
>>
>> There are no historical supports for your claim of "at most a few
>> thousand" victims of the witch hunts, heretic hunts, etc. of the
>> Church of Rome, probably the most evil institution ever to exist in
>> human history. I'm glad that Luther and the German Princes managed to
>> destroy its influence in Germany.
>
>first of all I made no such claim! Where did I? Indeed Witch finding and 
>witch hunting becme a decidely Protestant diversion and not really a huge 
>Roman Church preoccupation.
>The total number of witch trials in Europe which are known for certain to 
>have ended in executions is around 12,000 
>http://www.summerlands.com/crossroads/remembrance/current.htm
>Witch hunting was worst in central Europe: in Germany, Switzerland, and 
>France. Generally speaking, the further you got away from this area, the 
>less persecution there was. For example, Ireland, Portugal, and Russia all 
>had less than a dozen executions.
>
>Nothing like the ten millions plus during the Holocaust!

You denier you! It was ten trillion if it was one.

>
>No go back and look at what you think I claimed. I mentioned the Inquisition 
>and the worst of these by far was the Spanish one.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition#Death_tolls
>The historian Hernando del Pulgar, contemporary of Ferdinand and Isabella, 
>estimated that the Inquisition had burned at the stake 2,000 people.
>Henningsen-Contreras statistics for the period 1540-1700
>Executions reported (all areas from 1540 to 1700) = 826
>Least amount expected = 1080
>
>Thats 1,000 over 160 years about 7 a year on average!
>
>I dont justify it but compared to the Holocaust it is tiny in scale.
>
>AS regards the German Lutheran  rooting out of Catholics... The most 
>catholic country in the world per capita is Ireland. they had about 4 
>witches executed. Germany had about 26,000 and many of these were in 
>Protestant regions.

You pull these figures out of your fundament, do you? Germany was one
of the few countries where the inquisition did not take hold and where
it had little support.

>
>[snip]
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In spite of saying all of history is a collection of "FACTS" that 
>>>>>>>stand
>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>their own  you cant even cite three from the last 2500 years! Can you?
>>>>>
>>>>>evasion noted. In spie of saying everything else apart from the 
>>>>>Holocaust
>>>>>stands on its own you can't cite three examples from the ennumerable 
>>>>>ones
>>>>>in
>>>>>history!
>>>>>LOL!
>>>>>>>>
>[snip]
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:24 EDT 2009
Article: 2005813 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges. Mysterious ventilation at Krema II and III.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:45:39 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"m-weber"  
>wrote:gr5vcq$5js$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article <49d67f8e@news.x-privat.org>,
>> ZuLu  <""zulu\"@cool rabbits.com"> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The holes are there:
>>
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/holes/die-welt.shtml
>
>Yes. If the killers thought they could escape easy just by exploding the 
>murder scene, they were wrong. Revisionism is starting to crumble.

On the contrary, it is the holocaust™ fable that had retreated into
darkest Poland, that is now in difficulties even there.

>
>Remembrance. Awareness. Responsibility
>
>Topi
>
>To get to know more about the true history of the Auschwitz camp visit
>http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=570&Itemid=29 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:25 EDT 2009
Article: 2005815 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jesus tried to warn us about the Jews -"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do."
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:29:31 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:cc6at4ld09m0rjjtdd3q35hhieqoogdlni@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:22:10 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:1qq4t41c7o2r9n0v9h33uph60bvnh8gmrf@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:32:48 +0100, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:CsmdnZPaZOVxpl7UnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus was a Jew himself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sure about that?  You can prove that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>The historicity of Jesus is an established field of research.
>>>>>But if anyone believes in Jesus Christ existing in the past then it is
>>>>>ludicrous to believe he was NOT a Jew.
>>>>>If one is claiming that Jesus Christ never existed then claiming he was 
>>>>>or
>>>>>was not a Jew is pointless since one assigning an attribute to something
>>>>>which does not exist - a bit like saying the dragon was BLUE. It is
>>>>>pointless to argue about whether they are blue red or yellow if your 
>>>>>main
>>>>>point is that dragons never existed.
>>>>>
>>>>>As it happens though the historicity of Jesus is as established (or
>>>>>probably
>>>>>more established) as say Alexander the Great for example.
>>>>
>>>> Actually no, since lots of people saw or experienced Alexander the
>>>> Great,
>>>
>>>Really?
>>>And your evidence is?
>>>Lots of people also saw and experienced Jesus by the way.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>
>With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), virtually all scholars in the 
>fields of biblical studies

That is the whole point, Mavis. The scholars are "biblical scholars"
and sure, there are lots of scriptural references to Jesus. There are
zero historical references to his existence outside of scripture. Not
even the court records of the Roman governors in the Middle East have
any reference, and they really should if he were a real person.

> and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher 
>from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, 
>was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman 
>Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
> Raymond E. Brown, The Death of the Messiah: From Gethsemane to the Grave 
>(New York: Doubleday, Anchor Bible Reference Library 1994), p. 964; D. A. 
>Carson, et al., p. 50-56; Shaye J.D. Cohen, From the Maccabees to the 
>Mishnah, Westminster Press, 1987, p. 78, 93, 105, 108; John Dominic Crossan, 
>The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant, 
>HarperCollins, 1991, p. xi-xiii; Michael Grant, p. 34-35, 78, 166, 200; 
>Paula Fredriksen, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Alfred A. Knopf, 
>1999, p. 6-7, 105-110, 232-234, 266; John P. Meier, vol. 1:68, 146, 199, 
>278, 386, 2:726; E.P. Sanders, pp. 12-13; Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew 
>(Philadelphia: Fortress Press 1973), p. 37.; Paul L. Maier, In the Fullness 
>of Time, Kregel, 1991, pp. 1, 99, 121, 171; N. T. Wright, The Meaning of 
>Jesus: Two Visions, HarperCollins, 1998, pp. 32, 83, 100-102, 222; Ben 
>Witherington III, pp. 12-20.
>
>>Jesus wrote nothing,
>He is recorded as having writing twice in the sand before he said "let him 
>without sin cast the first stone".
>
>>built nothing,
>It would be unlikley if he was the son of a carpenter that he built nothing.
>
>>founded nothing,
>
>Eh. He is also recorded as saying "On this rock I found my Church" to Peter.
>
>>and
>> simply was not noticed by anybody other than the people who wrote the
>> scriptures.
>
>Your point being? Was "Ozymandias King of Kings" noticed? Look up "Sailing 
>to Byzanthium".
>
>By the way it is also WRONG! Many people followed him who didn't write at 
>all. Just as many people followed others in that time also. ever heard of 
>simon Maguns , simon the magician? Or Barabbas?
>
>>
>>>What evidence do you have from "lots" of people? I am aware of at most 
>>>maybe
>>>a dozen sources which can be traced to that time. and even THEY are not
>>>original extant sources. Most sources are from CENTURIES later. in fact I 
>>>am
>>>only aware of maybe ONE or TWO artifacts which date from the time of
>>>alexander which may be construed as a reference to him.
>>
>> That is all crap. There are Persian records of Alexander's exploits,
>
>Really? Can you point me to a few of them? What Persian records exist of 
>alexcander written at the time of Alexander the Great?
>Let  us just get in the ball park here. Your claim is of existing writings 
>from Persia between the years 340 and 323 BC.
>Ill bet you cant produce ONE!
>Where are these "Persian records"?
>
> > Indian records of Alexander's exploits,
>
>
>Where Cite please?
>
>>Egyptian records of
>>Alexander's exploits
>
>From before 323 BC I really think not! coite please! Can you?
>
>>and a whole trail of new Greek states and cities
>> in his wake.
>
>I don't deny the Greek Empire existed or that Greek Armies probably 
>conquered the known world and persian Empire then but where are your 
>"writings from the time" of which you claim there are "loads" in several 
>countries? Where are the Persian, Indian, Egyptian records from the time of 
>Alexander? Not copies from three centuries later but actual writings fromn 
>the time? This isnt to say that copies from three centuries later referring 
>to the now non existiant earlier work are to be dismissed altogether but 
>that is NOT you claim is it?
>
>>It is extremely unlikely that all these different people
>> living in different societies were all stoned on pot at the same time
>> and saw hallucinations that were coordinated.
>
>first of all you have produced NO EVIDENCE from any writings of the time 
>that you suggest!
>Second of all remember later when we come back to this that not alone do 
>people exist but there are miles of reams of paper and photographs and other 
>evidence of people from Italy to Russia to Holland to France who could not 
>have "co ordinated" a mass Holocaust hallucination.
>>
>> Silly statements such as yours are one of the reasons that the term
>> "Christian" has become a synonym for "drooling imbecile".
>
>I am not surprised that when you utterly FAIL to produce ANY actual evidence 
>of writings from Persia India and Egypt referring to "Alexander" the Great 
>conquering Emporor, you resort to ad hominem! Please put up or shut up and 
>provide example of the texts from 330 BC or thereabouts or just admit that 
>you can't do it!
>
>
>>>
>>>>whereas the only references to Jesus are in the Christian
>>>> scriptures,
>>>
>>>WRONG! Roman historians wrote of him and others outsede of the accepted
>>>canon of Holy scriptures.
>>
>> Show me just ONE non scriptural reference to Jesus, and you will
>> become world famous, since you will be the only person ever to have
>> produced one.
>
>Outside the accepted canon of Holy Scriptures from heretical or non 
>cononical writings:
>
>The authors whose works are contained in the New Testament sometimes quote 
>from creeds, or confessions of faith, that obviously predate their writings. 
>Scholars suppose that some of these creeds date to within a few years of 
>Jesus' death, and were developed within the Christian community in 
>Jerusalem.
> basic text is that of Oscar Cullmann, available in English in a translation 
>by J. K. S. Reid titled, The Earliest Christian Confessions (London: 
>Lutterworth, 1949)
>Jesus is a large factor in New Testament apocrypha, works excluded from the 
>canon (Gnostic texts) as it developed because they were judged not to be 
>inspired.
>
>Early Christian sources outside the New Testament also mention Jesus and 
>details of his life. Important texts from the Apostolic Fathers are, to name 
>just the most significant and ancient, Clement of Rome (c. 100),[33] 
>Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107-110),[34] and Justin Martyr.[35]
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Trallians
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Smyrneans
>
>Papias of Hierapolis
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias
>
>
>Quadratus of Athens
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratus_of_Athens
>
>
>Greco-Roman sources
>Passages relevant to Christianity in the works of four major non-Christian 
>writers of the late 1st and early 2nd centuries - Josephus, Tacitus, 
>Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger.
>Josephus' writings, which document John the Baptist, James the Just, and 
>possibly also Jesus, are of the most interest to scholars dealing with the 
>historicity of Jesus
>Josephus calls James "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."
>http://www.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-20.htm
>Tacitus, in his Annals written c. 115, mentions popular opinion about 
>Christus, without historical details
>According to Suetonius, chapter 25, there occurred in Rome, during the reign 
>of emperor Claudius (circa AD 50), "persistent disturbances ... at the 
>instigation of Chrestus"
>
>
>Thallus, of whom very little is known, wrote a history from the Trojan War 
>to, according to Eusebius, 109 BC. No work of Thallus survives. There is one 
>reference to Thallus having written about events beyond 109 BC. Julius 
>Africanus, writing c. 221, while writing about the crucifixion of Jesus, 
>mentioned Thallus. Thus:
>On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were 
>rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were 
>thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book of History, calls (as 
>appears to me without reason) an eclipse of the sun.
>Julius Africanus, Extant Writings XVIII in Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. A. 
>Roberts and J. Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973) vol. VI, p. 130
>Lucian, a second century Romano-Syrian satirist, who wrote in Greek, wrote:
>The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished 
>personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that 
>account. You see, these misguided creatures start with the general 
>conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt 
>of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and 
>then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all 
>brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of 
>Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws
>Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, 
>translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4
>
>Celsus wrote, about 180AD, a book against the Christians, which is now only 
>known through Origen's refutation of it. Celsus apparently accused Jesus of 
>being a child and a sorcerer Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician: Charlatan or 
>Son of God? (1978) pp. 78-79.
>
>ther are Jewish records too but we ell skip them for now
>
>In The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders used Alexander the Great as 
>a paradigm-the available sources tell us much about Alexander's deeds, but 
>nothing about his thoughts. "The sources for Jesus are better, however, than 
>those that deal with Alexander" and "the superiority of evidence for Jesus 
>is seen when we ask what he thought."
>
>Actually I am reminded of Sanders comparison between jesus and alexander 
>now. But more so the idea of the difference between Modern and Ancient 
>history. Paul Barnett respected classicist and historian - "scholars of 
>ancient history have always recognized the 'subjectivity' factor in their 
>available sources" and "have so few sources available compared to their 
>modern counterparts that they will gladly seize whatever scraps of 
>information that are at hand." IN "Is the New Testament History?", p.1.
>
>
>>
>>> But my poiint is that people accepted Jesus
>>>existed (whether or not he was God).
>>
>> Religious folks accept all manner of stuff without evidence or proof.
>
>Which is WHY a specifically seperated the religious belief element from the 
>field of history.
>
>> That is the nature of a religion.
>
>Well as you seem to have as scant a knowledge of theology as you have of 
>historical scholarship I won't bother to go into detail on the idea of 
>"evidence" or "proof" in theological terms since you seem not to have nay of 
>your so called "evidence" of "loads" of texts about alexander from the time 
>of alexander.
>
>>
>>
>>> few say he didnt.
>>
>> The bulk of the world's people would dispute the divinity of Christ,
>> and even a few Christians.
>
>I note you seem to have ignored or not paid attention to my last comment. 
>Please try to keep up! My poiint is that people accepted Jesus
>existed (whether or not he was God). the divinity of Christ isn't the 
>subject! the historicity of Jesus is. and it is in so far as it can be 
>compared withthe historicity of alexander. But the existance of Socrates or 
>alexander in history has scant evidence in comparison to the WWII Holocaust 
>yet you sem to believe in it in spite of CLAIMING but producing NO evidence 
>for alexander!
>
>>
>>>More however seem to
>>>think the Holocaust which has loads more evidence didn't happen.
>>
>> Show me some physical evidence that will stand up to scientific
>> scrutiny for the "jumping buckets of flesh" stories, or the
>> "flame-belching crematoria".
>
>This would be like your "physical evidence" of "persian texts" or "Egyptian 
>texts" or "indian texts" would it?
>Im still waiting for them by the way.
>Where are they?
>
>
>>Obviously there actually WAS a
>> significant death toll among Jews, but that isn't quite the same thing
>> as uncritically and naively accepting every ridiculous fable that is
>> in circulation about that period.
>
>Yeah but yu accept the existance of alexander the Great and socrates in 
>spite of producing NO TEXTS whatsoever from the time of alexander or 
>Socrates. Apparently was thought by aristotle who was taught by Plato who 
>was taught by Socrates. But I dont see any evidence from you of ANYTHING 
>from Socrates. Probably because no texts ever existed! So how doyou know he 
>did? Or do you just "believe" Alexander and Socrates existed like you claim 
>religious people do? LOL!
>
>>
>>>
>>>>all written at least a century after the traditional date
>>>> of the crucifixion.
>>>
>>>Not necessarily true. some may be first century. Certainly the second
>>>century stuff refers to the earlier works of which people do not have 
>>>whole
>>>copies. But what about Alexander the Great?  The things written about him
>>>are from books at least THREE centuries later! not ONE but THREE!
>>
>> There was much material written about Alexander DURING his lifetime,
>
>REally? And you have a copy or can point to some of this can you?
>I can point to PLENTY of stuff written about Jesus DURING HIS lifetime or by 
>people who were around when he was.
>LOADS of it! Where are YOUR writings?
>
>> especially by his Persian and Greek enemies.
>
>REally? WHAT Persian and Greek writings can you point to?
>
>>Those count as
>> independent verification because they were not penned by followers and
>> lackeys of the person under consideration.
>
>How about gnostic heretics, Jews and pagan historians all of whom are in 
>addition to the Christian writers?
>How about testimony penned by Nazis who were certainly not Jewish lackeys?
>
>
>>>
>>>>There is no independent verification of Christ's
>>>> existence, whereas there are plentiful references to Alexander the
>>>> Great,
>>>
>>>Really? Suppose you produce say five or six of these "plentiful" 
>>>references.
>>
>> Good Lord, woman, go into any library and there are still plentiful
>> references to Alexander,
>
>LOL! You say you have them and the libraries are full of them but you cant 
>produce ONE from the time of alexander! What a joke! You claim the Holocaust 
>didnt happen and stuff might have been made up later but when asked to 
>produce something about alexander or Socrates you ignore the standards you 
>claim to have!
>
>Libraries are full of references to the Holocaust but somehow thisis to be 
>ignored while references to alexander aren't! HHypocritical double standards 
>is all you seem to have produced to support YOUR CLAIM about Alexander! LOL!
>
>
>>despite the campaign of the Church of Rome to
>> have all records of antiquity destroyed.
>
>LOL! How ignorant you are. where did you get this one from? You have a Di 
>vinci code version of history it seems.
>
>Now you are probably going to come up with the Library of Alexandria fire so 
>Ill put you straight on a few things first.
>
>First the Library was STLL THERE when burned down by THE MUSLIMS.
>Second when the earlier fire happened it was well past its height by about 
>150 years and much of the works had been copied.
>Third in early christian time it was under Constantinople i.e the Orthodox 
>church and NOT the Roman Church!
>
>>
>>>Ill bet you cant produce one because I have studied the field
>>
>> If that is the case, then it wasn't much of an educational
>> institution.
>
>I didnt say I attended any educational institution did I? nor did I claim 
>any qualification . that isnt to say I dont have qualifications. I said I 
>personally studied this historicity of Jesus and Alexander field and was 
>surprised at the dearth of writings on alexander. As I stated ther is to my 
>knowledge only ONE partial fragment of something from persia which MAY refer 
>(does not use the name Alexander)  to Alexander. There are not to my 
>knowledge libraries of writings from the time. there are even scant copies 
>of later writings referring to earlier now lost books. but what I claim isnt 
>the subject . YOUR CLAIM about loads of writings about alexander from the 
>time of alexander is the subject. so where are they?
>
>LOL! You cant produce even ONE!
>
>>
>>> and I expect
>>>you wont find a SINGLE reference! go on produce five of these "plenty" can
>>>you?
>>>
>>>>especially since Alexander overthrew a lot of existing states
>>>> and founded a number of cities.
>>>
>>>Did he? and you know that because? You seem to believe it without seeing 
>>>ANY
>>>evidence! Yet whenh it comes to the holocaust you doubt all the loads of
>>>evidence. why dont you apply even a tiny amount of that doubt for 
>>>Alexander
>>>for whom you have seen no extant evidence?
>>>
>>>Mind you all the more reason to be amazed at the son of a Carpenter being
>>>remembered MORE then and written MORE about than the Greatest General in
>>>history and the conquerer of the world at the time!
>>
>> Most of the Bible stories come under the heading of fables,
>
>I was not referring only to Bible stories. I have provided you with non 
>Bible stories. contemporary historians and other writers writing about the 
>period foom the century after Jesus. You have not provided ONE reference of 
>your loads of Persian Indian Egyptian and Greek writings claim.
>
>>and cannot
>> be confused with history. All human religions, including yours,
>> consist of fables and legends. They all have the same validity.
>
>Nope they dont. all history is an interpretation. But we can use several 
>sources to link certain events together and distill out the likely history. 
>But yuy have not provided several sources for alexander . You have not 
>provided ONE! Yet you claim Alexander existed ? So why dont you apply the 
>same reasoning to the Holocaust? Why the double standards?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2005817 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: not to debate a holo denier
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:15:37 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

> spoke by telephone today to the person who answered the line when I asked 
>for the Dir of Research. I believe it is Bret Brietback or some name very 
>close to that.
>
>I directed my questions to Treblinka and specifiically, where are all the 
>burnt bodies, estimated BY HIM, to be 850,000- 900,000.
>
>I was told they are bascially scattered all over the place. In fact, if you 
>go there, I was told, you can just put your hand into the soil and pull up 
>bones! WTF, is this guy for real.
>
>I asked how was it the Germans could burn 850,000 ( 3000 per day) bodies in 
>temps that sometimes came close to -30 F and without wood or gasoline or 
>cremation ovens.
>
>
>Mr BB told me the Germans had a method to do it, it was not easy, but they 
>pulled it off, and he suggested a book written by a lady, whose name I did 
>not record.
>
>I asked if it would have been easier if they had asked for a few ovens, and 
>he said he was not going to argue the point. It appears Treblinka was about 
>200 miles from Auschwitz, so it would not have been a huge deal to provide a 
>few.
>
>I then asked about the testimony of Abraham Bomba. A Jew who spent time in 
>Treblinka as a barber?
>I told Mr BB that Bomba is on record as saying he cut hair for the ladies 
>who were to be gassed and was one of 16 barbers in a 12x 12 room with 140 
>others.
>
>This was a bigger nut to crack for Mr BB, so he told me I should not listen 
>to the words of ONE man since so many others also have stories about 
>Treblinka. I said ,BUT he was THERE. He said time can fade memories and he 
>was not going to argue the point.
>
>I then introduced to Mr BB, my past conversations with Dr. Michael Singer, a 
>Rabbi and Holocaust professor at Notre Dame.
>
>I told Mr BB that Dr. Singer said the remains were in the nearby hills, but 
>the land near Treblinka is flat. How can you reconcile that? He said I do 
>not know Dr. Singer.
>
>My last point to him was the area around Treblinka was farms and the camp 
>was in the open without any walls to keep it secret. In fact, there was even 
>bartering in the front of the camp with locals, and the US Air Force 
>overflights show no mass graves or long lines or thousands being roasted on 
>railroad tyees. How can you explain your side when the evidence suggests 
>otherwise.
>
>Ready for this...................He said the Germans bought up huge tracts 
>of land next to Treblinka so the locals could not see what was happening 
>inside Treblinka. WTF. Yeah, I am sure that is how you keep a camp secret.
>
>Do not build walls, just buy up the land next to the camp.
>
>He then got mad and said I am not going to debate a holocaust denier and 
>hung up.
>_________________

The person you spoke to could have been olde gourd. If you challenge
the hurricane of gobbledegook, you get called names and the
conversation is terminated.  LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:26 EDT 2009
Article: 2005818 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:34:14 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  wrote:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen 
>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen deutsche 
>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die 
>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die Partisanen 
>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben aber 
>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? Some 
>might think they got what they deserved.

The Americans were not invited to any of the scores of countries they
have occupied either, so what is your point?

Some might also think that the partisans got what they deserved.
According to the various conventions, shooting partisans is perfectly
acceptable.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2005819 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:57:58 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Bertram.Zetzsche"  wrote gr5e7i$h4c$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  schrieb
>>
>>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ?
>>
>> The same like the US and GB in all over the world!
>Yes but they are not crying afterwards how maltreated they were.

You've got to be kidding! There are no whiners like American whiners.

>I once saw 
>a documentary filmed in late nineties in Volgograd. A group of German 
>tourists wanted to know why there wasn´t a memorial for the fallen german 
>soldiers. The Russian guide was about to faint. I can hardly imagine a 
>bigger insult to the local inhabitants.

The Russians make any German military units look like Sunday school
pupils. 

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2005820 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:27:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>An educated brain compares both sites and I am not so sure if your brain 
>works at all.

Indeed! Toivo is obviously an allied apologist, so for him, all allied
crimes are either excusable or understandable.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>news:49d6401d$0$3480$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>
>> "Bertram.Zetzsche"  wrote 
>> gr5e7i$h4c$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  schrieb
>>>
>>>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ?
>>>
>>> The same like the US and GB in all over the world!
>> Yes but they are not crying afterwards how maltreated they were. I once 
>> saw a documentary filmed in late nineties in Volgograd. A group of German 
>> tourists wanted to know why there wasn´t a memorial for the fallen german 
>> soldiers. The Russian guide was about to faint. I can hardly imagine a 
>> bigger insult to the local inhabitants.
>>
>> Topi
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2005821 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:44:32 +0200, "T. Fink"  wrote:

>Truthseeker wrote:
>> An educated brain compares both sites and I am not so sure if your brain 
>> works at all.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
>Knoll, you are really the last person that should use the word "educated".
>
>Cheers
>
>Torsten

Torsten, Churchill was a demented war-lover who helped launch both WW1
and WW2, destroying the British Empire in the process. Destroying the
British Empire was probably his one valuable achievement.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:28 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:22:44 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  wrotexErBl.21309$PH1.8475@edtnps82...
>> If you would have more brain you could figure it out. Not just the Germans 
>> but also the Americans , British and Russian did have the principle to cut 
>> of the supply of raw material for the enemies. A typical example her is 
>> Norway. The British and Germans did the same thing but it was the British 
>> who cam late and then did return. The we have the supply of Oil which both 
>> the German needed was in Africa. And the fight was not about conquering 
>> Africa but to stop the other site from getting it. Politics is like a 
>> religion and a lot of people can be brain washed with it. In this sense 
>> hallelujah fuckers are no different then people that believe only in one 
>> sited politics.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>Lebenraum is it? Did the German people really need moore land? Was it 
>somebodys elses land? Oil? Was it somebodys elses oil? Till 1941 the Reich 
>had a deal with Soviet Union to get wheat and fuel as much it wanted. The 
>usual way to get raw materials is to buy them, not to conquer those lands 
>and steel  them.. And what has Norway to do with it, in those days they 
>producded nothingh but cod.

Toivo, the British were on their way to violate Norway's neutrality
but were pre-empted by a German naval force just a few hours earlier.
Neither action had anything to do with cod, as you ridiculously
suggest, but with the iron ore rail link that goes from the mines in
Sweden to the Norwegian port of Narvik. 

>
>It was crazy Hitlers paranaid idea to attac all around him not to get anyone 
>ahead of him. It had been better without the Nazis as we can see now. How 
>rich, mighgty, prosperous, united and wellbeing Deutchland we had seen 
>without the disaster of the Nazi era and without the war.
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2005823 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:19:03 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 3, 12:34 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Truthseeker"  wrote:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> > Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>> > gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen deutsche
>> > gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>> > deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die Partisanen
>> > umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben aber
>> > was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>> > Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? Some
>> might think they got what they deserved.
>>
>> Topi
>
>Do you think that German troops should have been torture/killed?  I've
>also heard that German troops were planted in the ground (in
>Yugoslavia) and then a plow ran over them; their heads were sticking
>out.  If you OK that atrocity or any atrocities against German troops,
>then you OK all atrocities.  Why should one set of atrocities be OK,
>and not another?

Apologists for allied crimes tend to be two-faced. If something is
done by Germans, it is a crime, but similar things done by the allies
are perfectly acceptable, by definition.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:29 EDT 2009
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Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:19:38 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:35a5742b-f62f-4f45-b6cb-709e0b93d55c@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 3, 12:34 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>
>>
>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? Some
>> might think they got what they deserved.
>>
>> Topi
>
>Do you think that German troops should have been torture/killed?  I've
>also heard that German troops were planted in the ground (in
>Yugoslavia) and then a plow ran over them; their heads were sticking
>out.  If you OK that atrocity or any atrocities against German troops,
>then you OK all atrocities.  Why should one set of atrocities be OK,
>and not another?
>
>I repeat: What the hell the German troups were doing out there to get killed 
>and tortured. Why didn´t they stay at home in Mannheim or in Wurttenberg or 
>where ever they came from. Instead of getting ploughed over they could have 
>got a nice family with a dozen kids, a Mercedes and a house with a garden.
>
>They were there to commit atrocities.

Nonsense. They were there to assist the Croats against the murderous
Communist Serbs.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2005825 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:33:12 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 3, 6:19 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>> viestissä:35a5742b-f62f-4f45-b6cb-709e0b93d...@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 3, 12:34 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? Some
>> > might think they got what they deserved.
>>
>> > Topi
>>
>> Do you think that German troops should have been torture/killed?  I've
>> also heard that German troops were planted in the ground (in
>> Yugoslavia) and then a plow ran over them; their heads were sticking
>> out.  If you OK that atrocity or any atrocities against German troops,
>> then you OK all atrocities.  Why should one set of atrocities be OK,
>> and not another?
>>
>> I repeat: What the hell the German troups were doing out there to get killed
>> and tortured. Why didn´t they stay at home in Mannheim or in Wurttenberg or
>> where ever they came from. Instead of getting ploughed over they could have
>> got a nice family with a dozen kids, a Mercedes and a house with a garden.
>>
>> They were there to commit atrocities.
>>
>> Topi
>
>So stop crying when your side gets tortured or killed.  If you believe
>that atrocities are OK, then you believe that atrocities are OK.  You
>obviously believe then; according to your logic; you believe that Jews
>should have been brutalized yes?  No?  Why is that different than
>honorable troops having their heads plowed?  Never mind.  You're an
>idiot; that much is clear.  And a hateful idiot to boot.

Topi has severe tunnel vision, so Serb butcheries are acceptable.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2005826 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:14:59 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>news:49d68c16$0$23526$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti 
>> viestissä:35a5742b-f62f-4f45-b6cb-709e0b93d55c@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 3, 12:34 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? Some
>>> might think they got what they deserved.
>>>
>>> Topi
>>
>> Do you think that German troops should have been torture/killed?  I've
>> also heard that German troops were planted in the ground (in
>> Yugoslavia) and then a plow ran over them; their heads were sticking
>> out.  If you OK that atrocity or any atrocities against German troops,
>> then you OK all atrocities.  Why should one set of atrocities be OK,
>> and not another?
>>
>> I repeat: What the hell the German troups were doing out there to get 
>> killed and tortured. Why didn´t they stay at home in Mannheim or in 
>> Wurttenberg or where ever they came from. Instead of getting ploughed over 
>> they could have got a nice family with a dozen kids, a Mercedes and a 
>> house with a garden.
>>
>
> Beats me why are the Americans in Afghanistan and who did invite them. Why 
>is it that other nationalities have to dye to protect the Americas 
>interests.

The USA is the most warlike and aggressive country in human history.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>> They were there to commit atrocities.
>>
>> Topi
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2005828 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:45:00 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:nwyBl.19876$Db2.19176@edtnps83...
>>
>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>> news:49d68c16$0$23526$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>
>>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti 
>>> viestissä:35a5742b-f62f-4f45-b6cb-709e0b93d55c@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Apr 3, 12:34 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And what hell hell were the Germans doing there ? Were they invited? 
>>>> Some
>>>> might think they got what they deserved.
>>>>
>>>> Topi
>>>
>>> Do you think that German troops should have been torture/killed?  I've
>>> also heard that German troops were planted in the ground (in
>>> Yugoslavia) and then a plow ran over them; their heads were sticking
>>> out.  If you OK that atrocity or any atrocities against German troops,
>>> then you OK all atrocities.  Why should one set of atrocities be OK,
>>> and not another?
>>>
>>> I repeat: What the hell the German troups were doing out there to get 
>>> killed and tortured. Why didn´t they stay at home in Mannheim or in 
>>> Wurttenberg or where ever they came from. Instead of getting ploughed 
>>> over they could have got a nice family with a dozen kids, a Mercedes and 
>>> a house with a garden.
>>>
>>
>> Beats me why are the Americans in Afghanistan and who did invite them. Why 
>> is it that other nationalities have to dye to protect the Americas 
>> interests.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>>> They were there to commit atrocities.
>>>
>>> Topi
>>>
>Even a Knollish truth is that nobody on this planet invited the Germans to 
>Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia was an artificial Versailles-state, and it was the Croats
and Slovenes who invited Germany to assist them against the murderous
Serbs. It was the Croats and Slovenes first shot at independence from
the murderous Serbs, and for a few years they were free of the
villainous Serbs.

Slovenes and Croats eventually got their independence from the
murderous Serbs in the nineties, again with support from Germany.
Croats and Slovenes regard Germany as their friend, while the
murderous Communist Serbs regard Germany as their enemy.

Our Croatian neighbours have a big celebration every April 20 in
honour of Hitler's birthday. Even though my family is German beyond
the twentieth generation, we would never do that, but the Croatians
next door think Germans are wonderful people. I suspect that they
would think that of anybody who stomps on Serbs.







 It was a one sided aggression. There were no Yugoslavian 
>military forces in Shleswig-Holstain or in Bavaria. To get killed in 
>aggresive and violent occupations is not a merit.
>
>In the case of Afganistan there´s a resolution by the UN. The internanional 
>community want´s to end global terrorism there.
>
>To get to know me better, I oppose all violence, all war crimes, all 
>attrocities, all killings and rapes allways.
>We just should not forget.
>
>Remembrance. Awreness. Responsibility
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2005829 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen 
>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen deutsche 
>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die 
>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die Partisanen 
>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben aber 
>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>
>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie auch 
>gewinnen.

Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.

>
>PvH


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2005830 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Teens Say Jews Deserved Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 13:32:51 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>More than 14 percent of German teenagers in a recent survey said Jews must 
>have deserved to be persecuted in the Holocaust.
>
>The Survey which was conducted by the Hanover-based Criminal Research 
>Institute, polled 44,610  German students and was called "Youth as Victims 
>and Perpetrators of Violence," also found that about one in every 20 German 
>teenage boys belongs to a far-right group. The survey found that far more 
>German boys aged 15 belong to extremists groups than to mainstream political 
>youth clubs. In some towns or cities, membership in far-right groups is as 
>high as 10 percent, while in others it is virtually non-existent.
>
>Among boys of German background, 7 percent in former East German states 
>showed clear signs of anti-Semitism and xenophobia, as opposed to 3 percent 
>in western states. The institute's director, Christian Pfeiffer suggested 
>this might be due to the decades of anti-Israel propaganda promoted in the 
>former Communist East Germany.
>
>http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1237461641507
>
>
It only takes one reading of drivel like that promulgated by the bigot
Rabbi Shmuel Derlich to turn otherwise neutral students into enemies
of Israel.

Israelis are their own worst enemies. They have managed to alienate
practically the whole planet.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2005904 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:52:32 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> Irving's book on Dresden is consistent with the observations and
>> recollections of people who were there. 
>
>So have been the accounts of the Auschwiyz gas chambers.

That isn't quite true, since the various reports of the gas chambers
are frequently inconsistent and would be considered "hearsay" by any
modern court.

>
>> Lipstadt is just another paid
>> propagandist whose job it is to excuse or minimize allied crimes.
>
>No. Lipstadt is a professional historian miffed at David Irving's
>malpracticing mendacious poaching on her turf.

Lipstadt appears to be a single topic "historian" who is
indistinguishable from a propagandist.

>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2005905 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 06:50:58 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Tim Miller 
>wrote:
>
>>Topaz wrote:
>>> Here are parts of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels,
>>
>>Say, wasn't Goebbels that lying homosexual coward that
>>killed his family before committing suicide?? 
>
>If you will recall, he had his goons do it. He didn't have the courage
>to do it himself.
>
>>WHEN are
>>you going to follow his example?
>
>Like Goebbels, he'd have to have someone else do it.

Tim Miller comes across as just another gay basher and ignorant bigot.
Why am I not surprised?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2005931 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:15:30 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:4dc5f70d-aeaa-4bbd-81a2-bbede0dc8d0c@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 4, 10:19 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>> viestissä:6poet4l0uv79dpgbvns0tmh8f4r4jm9...@4ax.com...
>>
>> > On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> >>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> >>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>> >>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen
>> >>> deutsche
>> >>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>> >>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die Partisanen
>> >>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben
>> >>> aber
>> >>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>>
>> >>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie 
>> >>auch
>> >>gewinnen.
>>
>> > Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.
>>
>> >>PvH
>>
>> The last sentence is not true, either.
>> But I´m sorry if I personallu offended You. Maybe some of your relatives
>> died in those mountains.
>> The world politics and war is not a football game. So what was the point 
>> in
>> occupying that territory, of any territories. Your explenation "as the big
>> boys did that before" is childish.
>> Topi
>
>>>>>>And your support of plowing Germans is crazy insane.
>
>
>OK. Let´s play it that way.
>
>If a German soldier came to my door, tried to steel my cows and last 
>potatos, rape my wife and kill my sons, yes I would kill him and plough his 
>body to the ground. I could not ever allow to erect a memorial in his 
>honour.

German soldiers don't do any of those things, at least not legally,
quite unlike allied soldiers where such behaviour is encouraged and
rewarded.

The German military code is quite harsh on people who do any of the
actions you describe in your diatribe, but it was par for the course
for Soviet soldateska.

>
>If the killing of German brutal beast in that case is wrong, crazy and 
>insane in Your mind, we cannot live in this same planet.

There is nothing brutal or beastly about German military personnel.
You are simply an ignorant bigot.
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2005932 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:21:02 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 4, 1:15 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>> viestissä:4dc5f70d-aeaa-4bbd-81a2-bbede0dc8...@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 4, 10:19 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>> > viestissä:6poet4l0uv79dpgbvns0tmh8f4r4jm9...@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > >>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> > >>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> > >>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>> > >>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen
>> > >>> deutsche
>> > >>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>> > >>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die Partisanen
>> > >>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben
>> > >>> aber
>> > >>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>>
>> > >>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie
>> > >>auch
>> > >>gewinnen.
>>
>> > > Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.
>>
>> > >>PvH
>>
>> > The last sentence is not true, either.
>> > But I´m sorry if I personallu offended You. Maybe some of your relatives
>> > died in those mountains.
>> > The world politics and war is not a football game. So what was the point
>> > in
>> > occupying that territory, of any territories. Your explenation "as the big
>> > boys did that before" is childish.
>> > Topi
>> >>>>>And your support of plowing Germans is crazy insane.
>>
>> OK. Let´s play it that way.
>>
>> If a German soldier came to my door, tried to steel my cows and last
>> potatos, rape my wife and kill my sons, yes I would kill him and plough his
>> body to the ground. I could not ever allow to erect a memorial in his
>> honour.
>>
>> If the killing of German brutal beast in that case is wrong, crazy and
>> insane in Your mind, we cannot live in this same planet.
>>
>> Topi
>
>What if you were an Iraqi and a US soldier tried the same thing...?
>What if you were a German and a US soldier tried the same thing...?
>What if you were a Vietnamese and a US soldier tried the same
>thing...?
>What if you were a Pole and a Soviet tried the same thing...?
>What if you were a Chin and Ghengis tried the same thing...?
>What if you were a Nicaraguan peasant and the US(+ United Fruit) tried
>the same thing...?
>What if you were an Afghani and England tried the same thing...?
>What if you were an Inca and the Spaniards tried the same thing...?
>or do you just hate Krauts?!!!
>WHAT IF YOU WERE A GERMAN AND A SERB TRIED THE SAME THING...?
>WHAT IF YOU WERE A GERMAN AND A SOVIET TRIED THE SAME THING...?
>What if you were a Jap and the US tried the same thing...?
>or do you just hate Krauts???!!!
>Are not these listed above brutal beasts, or is it just the Kraut
>monster?
>And of course I could go on and on...
>Or is it just the Kraut what's got your head fucked up?

Topi has a severe case of irrational Germanophobia.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:33 EDT 2009
Article: 2005936 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 20:42:57 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Just like the gas bellets that came thru the shower heads or thru the roof 
>with another floor between.

Pellets through the shower heads would have been an interesting
phenomenon.  LOL

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:chfft4hhr6rt900pfqhu55a6iecme1doni@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:52:32 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article ,
>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Irving's book on Dresden is consistent with the observations and
>>>> recollections of people who were there.
>>>
>>>So have been the accounts of the Auschwiyz gas chambers.
>>
>> That isn't quite true, since the various reports of the gas chambers
>> are frequently inconsistent and would be considered "hearsay" by any
>> modern court.
>>
>>>
>>>> Lipstadt is just another paid
>>>> propagandist whose job it is to excuse or minimize allied crimes.
>>>
>>>No. Lipstadt is a professional historian miffed at David Irving's
>>>malpracticing mendacious poaching on her turf.
>>
>> Lipstadt appears to be a single topic "historian" who is
>> indistinguishable from a propagandist.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:33 EDT 2009
Article: 2006072 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 13:02:37 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 4/4/2009 8:39 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:53:47 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/31/2009 2:24 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:03:33 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/30/2009 9:00 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:45:27 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:54:04 -0400, in 
>>>>>>> , Johannes von
>>>>>>>  Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:40:32 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The language used in the Wannsee Protocol is dry, 
>>>>>>>>>>> arcane bureaucratic German, yes.  I have never said
>>>>>>>>>>>  otherwise. Ben, you know I am a bureaucrat.  I am
>>>>>>>>>>>  the first to admit that bureaucrats do not write 
>>>>>>>>>>> beautiful language.
>>>>>>>>>> Having seen photocopies of the Wannsee Protocols, I 
>>>>>>>>>> would say that dry arcane German is the least of 
>>>>>>>>>> their problems. It seems, like in so many other 
>>>>>>>>>> cases, that the originals are nowhere to be found and
>>>>>>>>>>  all that remains are these allied "official" copies
>>>>>>>>>>  of a copy that were clearly typed on an American 
>>>>>>>>>> typewriter.
>>>>>>>>> That is simply invention on your part.
>>>>>>>> I've seen quite a few obvious forgeries. The only 
>>>>>>>> invention was on the part of the Americans/British who 
>>>>>>>> created the documents.
>>>>>>> Then I would be interested in your take on the Wannsee 
>>>>>>> Protokoll original here:
>>>>>> This material does appear to be written on a German 
>>>>>> typewriter, but then it didn't surface until 1947, so 
>>>>>> Americans getting hold of German typewriters would have been
>>>>>>  no problem. Anything that was ever in allied hands is 
>>>>>> suspect, and cannot simply be taken at face value. The paper
>>>>>>  would need to be analyzed to make sure that it is consistent
>>>>>>  with the ministry allegedly involved, the typewriter ink 
>>>>>> would need chemical analysis to make sure that it was of 
>>>>>> German origin, and numerous other physical aspects.
>>>>> I guess I should have expected something like that.  First you 
>>>>> claim the document were not written by a German speaking 
>>>>> person.
>>>> I didn't say anything about it being written by a German-speaking
>>>>  person. That was your straw man. The allies surely had some 
>>>> German-speaking employees capable of putting something like this
>>>>  together, but that hardly proves that the item is genuine or
>>>> even significant.
>>>> 
>>>> The infamous Zimmermann telegraph of WW1 was a forgery created in
>>>>  Toronto, and that only become public more than half a century 
>>>> after the fact.
>>>> 
>>>> I really don't trust any documents that have ever been in allied
>>>>  hands. They have a long, long history of fraud.
>>> Very convenient, since all the captured documents were in some 
>>> allied hands at some point, so you neatly dismiss every single Nazi
>>>  document. The Führer would be proud.
>>> 
>>> By the way, can you provide a scintilla of support fr your fairy 
>>> tale that the Zimmerman telegram was fake?
>>> 
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram
>>> 
>>> Of course you can't.
>> 
>> Take your whine to the Toronto Star. They published a story a few 
>> years ago indicating that the so-called Zimmermann telegram was 
>> fabricated in Toronto.
>> 
>> Besides, no German foreign minister would ever send such a thing by 
>> telegram, a medium that is easily intercepted. With that content, the
>>  message would have been delivered personally and written in code.
>> 
>> Your continuous demands for "proof" are getting sillier by the day. I
>>  don't keep a running log of everything I read just in case I 
>> encounter the McFee jackass on usenet some future year.
>
>In other words, you cannot provide a scintilla of support for your
>fairytale that the Zimmerman telegram was fake.

Much as I hate to do so, I have to admit that the only references I
found on the web tend to support the version of this story I learned
as a youngster in secondary school. The British periodically release
archive documents that overturn previously accepted stories, an
example being the Lusitania incident. It seems that the German
submarine captain in that case was correct, and everything we learned
on the topic in high school was incorrect.

For the time being, I concede your Zimmermann position since I simply
cannot recall where I read the forgery comment or what evidence was
presented with it.

>
>Thank you.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2006075 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 13:05:11 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 4/4/2009 8:44 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:20:44 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>  Holman) wrote:
>> 
>>> In article , 
>>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:49:41 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi 
>>>> (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> Your sentence doesn't make sense. Deborah Lipstadt was not the 
>>>>> one resorting to use of the courts in this particular case.
>>>> Nobody said she was. Irving was trying to get the woman off his 
>>>> back with her character assassination techniques,...
>>> How was Deborah Lipstadt using "character assassination 
>>> techniques"? She wrote that he was a dishonest historian, something
>>>  that had been known since David Irving's lost libel suit and the 
>>> fallout from his book about the bombing of Dresden,
>> 
>> Irving's book on Dresden is consistent with the observations and 
>> recollections of people who were there. Lipstadt is just another paid
>>  propagandist whose job it is to excuse or minimize allied crimes.
>
>Actually, as was proven in court, Irving's book on Dresden is not
>consistent with the observations and recollections of people who were
>there, and certainly not with the facts.

I personally know people who were there and I find them much more
credible than some allied kangaroo court with the assignment to
minimize and downplay allied war crimes. Court statements do not
necessarily equate to truth. Judges tend to rule in a manner
consistent with the wishes of the people who hired them and who pay
them. The same thing goes for you. I fully expect you to excuse allied
war crimes because that is your assignment, but I'm under no
obligation to believe you, and I basically don't.

>
>[...]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2006077 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: freed from holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:05:24 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ds5at45sifa63mni4nf4aet17jc1fq6okr@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:17 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 31, 11:07 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>>>wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:20:38 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>>>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >On Mar 27, 10:14 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>> >> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> >>news:735t7sFrf6pcU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> >> > Greek court officials said judges overturned Friday a 
>>>> >> > far-rightist's
>>>> >> > conviction for inciting racial hatred with a book that denies the
>>>> >> > Holocaust took place.
>>>>
>>>> >> That is splendid news.
>>>>
>>>> >> Now to overturn the convictions and sentences of Germar Rudolf, Ernst
>>>> >> Zundel, Stolz et al.
>>>> > On what basis?
>>>>
>>>> Political "propaganda offences" have no place in a democracy.
>>>>
>>>   Yes, but the laws would have to be changed first, followed with
>>>pardons.
>>>
>>>   Judges would not be able to overturn those convictions on there
>>>own; there is no legal protection of freedom of speech in those
>>>places.
>>
>> In Germany, supposedly there actually IS freedom of speech and freedom
>> of opinion, so the propaganda laws are probably unconstitutional,
>
>As to "probably unconstitiutional", you could try actually reading the 
>constitution.
>
>Article 5, Paragraph 2 of the Basic Law details the limitations on speech 
>and expression:
>
>"These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in 
>provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal 
>honor. "

All the basic rights of Germans are qualified by the ending phrase "or
as provided otherwise by law." In other words, Germans have no rights
at all, or at least not significantly more than those they enjoyed
under the constitution in place when Hitler was in power where the
list of basic universal rights was also qualified by "unless we
legislate otherwise.".

>
>There are at least twelve defined sections in the Criminal Code which, 
>drawing their constitutional authority from Article 5, Paragraph 2, limit 
>speech in one way or another.
>
>If you wish to show how these constitutionally-authorized laws are 
>unconstitutional, now would be the time.   You can start with citing the
>
>> but
>> it would be very difficult for any lawyer to challenge them in court
>> without himself falling victim to the legislation.
>
>Perhaps you just don't know any *good* lawyers.
>
>Or perhaps good lawyers don't want anything to do with neo-Nazis.
>
>Perhaps it's like more pedophiles trying to find good lawyers.
>
>> That is exactly why
>> the aforementioned defendants didn't get much legal representation
>> because the lawyers representing them do so at great personal risk.
>> Several lawyers have found themselves in the prisoner's docket for
>> something they said trying to defend their clients.
>
>It's for rather more than "something they said".
>
>Playing coy won't work here.
>
>> In Canada, lawyers such as Douglas Christie do not have to fear court
>> reprisals for defending their clients.
>
>Lawyers in Canada aren't allowed to grandstand either.   Judges do not 
>appreciate that kind of behaviour.
>
>This isn't the difference, but I'm not suprised the subtle difference 
>between defending a person and committing the same act escapes you.
>
>Stolz, for example, was plainly *not* trying to defend EZ on his charges, 
>she was trying to make the court a platform for dissemination of her own 
>views.   The court declined permssion for this, as all other real courts do.
>
>-pk
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:34 EDT 2009
Article: 2006080 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Teens Say Jews Deserved Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 07:21:52 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 04/04/09"  schreef in bericht 
>news:aussies_suck-FF6EFE.11260204042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <73our3Fv0c9fU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> More than 14 percent of German teenagers in a recent survey said Jews 
>>> must
>>> have deserved to be persecuted in the Holocaust.
>>>
>>> The Survey which was conducted by the Hanover-based Criminal Research
>>> Institute, polled 44,610  German students and was called "Youth as 
>>> Victims
>>> and Perpetrators of Violence," also found that about one in every 20 
>>> German
>>> teenage boys belongs to a far-right group. The survey found that far more
>>> German boys aged 15 belong to extremists groups than to mainstream 
>>> political
>>> youth clubs. In some towns or cities, membership in far-right groups is 
>>> as
>>> high as 10 percent, while in others it is virtually non-existent.
>>>
>>> Among boys of German background, 7 percent in former East German states
>>> showed clear signs of anti-Semitism and xenophobia, as opposed to 3 
>>> percent
>>> in western states. The institute's director, Christian Pfeiffer suggested
>>> this might be due to the decades of anti-Israel propaganda promoted in 
>>> the
>>> former Communist East Germany.
>>>
>>> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&c
>>> id=1237461641507
>>
>> Amazing. 86% of german teenagers must
>> have felt that the german people were
>> barbarians.

Actually, for most young people in Germany the whole topic is
completely uninteresting and irrelevant. The 14% mentioned above are
at one end of the political spectrum, and a similar percentage is at
the opposite end (Communist, extreme left) of the political spectrum
but the vast bulk of the public don't give a flying shit about the
whole issue.

>>
>> Thanks heinie
>
>your welcome my friend but tell me why do you hte germans so much? 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2006082 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz-Birkenau crematoriums: photographs
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:41:56 -0700 (PDT), StarDust 
wrote:

>On Apr 4, 11:12 pm, RJ11  wrote:
>>    Two of the Birkenau crematoriums:http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.s...http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.s...
>>
>>    Cremation furnaces:http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces...
>>
>> RJ.
>
>
>The cremation occurs in a crematory, consisting of one or more
>cremator furnaces or cremation retorts for the ashes. A cremator is an
>industrial furnace capable of generating temperatures of 870–980°C
>(1600–1800°F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse. A crematorium
>may be part of chapel or a funeral home, or part of an independent
>facility or a service offered by a cemetery.
>The body burns in the cremator.
>
>Modern cremator fuels include natural gas and propane. However, coal
>and coke were used until the early 1960s.
>A cremation furnace is not designed to cremate more than one body at a
>time, something that is illegal in many countries, including the U.S.
>Exceptions are sometimes made in extreme cases, such as of a deceased
>mother and her still-born child or still-born twins.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation#Modern_cremation_process

Apparently the crematoria of Topf und Söhne were supernatural and
exempt from the laws of physics and chemistry, at least if one takes
some of the period fables seriously. Corpses and carcasses don't burn
on their own, since they consist mainly of water. It takes tremendous
amounts of external fuel to reduce a corpse to mineral ash, and even a
modern high-efficiency crematorium requires about an hour to do that
for a single corpse.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2006083 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz-Birkenau crematoriums: photographs
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:54:31 +0200, ZuLu  wrote:

>StarDust escribió:
>> On Apr 4, 11:12 pm, RJ11  wrote:
>>>    Two of the Birkenau crematoriums:http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.s...http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.s...
>>>
>>>    Cremation furnaces:http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces...
>>>
>>> RJ.
>> 
>> 
>> The cremation occurs in a crematory, consisting of one or more
>> cremator furnaces or cremation retorts for the ashes. A cremator is an
>> industrial furnace capable of generating temperatures of 870–980°C
>> (1600–1800°F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse. A crematorium
>> may be part of chapel or a funeral home, or part of an independent
>> facility or a service offered by a cemetery.
>> The body burns in the cremator.
>> 
>> Modern cremator fuels include natural gas and propane. However, coal
>> and coke were used until the early 1960s.
>> A cremation furnace is not designed to cremate more than one body at a
>> time, something that is illegal in many countries, including the U.S.
>> Exceptions are sometimes made in extreme cases, such as of a deceased
>> mother and her still-born child or still-born twins.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation#Modern_cremation_process
>
>Those furnaces were based on civilian models, nothing specific to criminal purpose.
>On the opposite there were not properly model to industrial burning because, as being
>civilian, they were tiny muffles planned to burn corpses by unit and to recuperate 
>ashes for the family on tray placed under the burning platform.
>
>Since the typhus epidemics occurrence after 1942, all corpses might be cremated at 
>the camps as a part of mandatory prophylactic measures.
>
>The same model of furnaces provided mostly by the manufacturers Topf and Kori can be 
>found at Dachau, Oranienburg, Gusen, Buchenwald and other main camps like I stated on 
>my previous post.

The period fables leave the impression that corpses were consumed in a
few minutes at most, and that pretty much implied that the units
supplied by Topf u. Söhne were magical and totally exempt from the
laws of physics and chemistry.

Crematoria don't, for example, have flames belching out the of the
chimneys since coke doesn't burn with a flame for starters, and the
corpse doesn't burn on its own either. The consumption of the corpse
is endothermic and requires a continuous supply of external fuel.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:35 EDT 2009
Article: 2006167 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:40:16 -0400, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:57:54 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 3/31/2009 2:27 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:04:47 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On 3/30/2009 9:09 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:46:52 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:04:36 -0000, in 
>> >>>>> <8c163$49ceaf9a$596480f8$25997@news.upc.ie>, "Mavisbeacon" 
>> >>>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> [...]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> And for his next trick, Cramer will claim that original gospels
>> >>>>>> don't exiat and no original copies of Homer, or of the writings
>> >>>>>> of Plato and Aristotle or of the teachings of Socrates. So based
>> >>>>>> on that he will argue that Jesus didnt exist or alexander the
>> >>>>>> Great or socrates or the Normans or anything else in history for
>> >>>>>> which he has not seen the original copies of anything written by
>> >>>>>> them.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> do people not find it strange that he seems only to douby the
>> >>>>>> WWII Holocaust and not apply the same degree of doubt to things
>> >>>>>> with much less evidence?
>> >>>>> Not in the slightest.  He is a Holocaust denier and that is their 
>> >>>>> modus operandi.
>> >>>> You're being rather silly, olde gourd.
>> >>> I take it Cramer has fled the scene for a while and you are the substitute?
>> >> 
>> >> Mr. Cramer's only connection to me is that we sometimes battle the
>> >> same idiots on this newsgroup. We most likely would not see eye to eye
>> >> on many topics, but here the opponents are so fanatical, hysterical
>> >> and bigoted that somebody has to offer some opposition to their
>> >> nonsense.
>> >
>> >So you are the substitute.  Pity.
>> 
>> Gourd, if you had a brain you would be dangerous.
>
>Amazing.  Cramer, a 10th stringer, is the starter, and Johannes, a
>25th stringer, is the sub.  Man, the denier bench is a sad sight.

LOL

As I said, gourd, if you had a brain you would be dangerous.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2006168 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:50:34 -0400, in
><8olet41l48jo8gqbcjcv5d176e352ut497@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>> >>>>>> by James Buchanan
>> >>>>>> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>> >>>>>> political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>> >>>>>   How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>> >>>> What is special about May 1?
>> >>>   It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>> >> 
>> >> The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services that
>> >> decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
>> >> machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
>> >> appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
>> >> special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
>> >> catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
>> >> had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another one
>> >> of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly become
>> >> the pattern of allied "liberations".
>> >
>> >I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.
>> 
>> LOL
>> 
>> When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.
>> 
>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
>> started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.
>
>Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?

The German government archives and the writings of several dozen
authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest
rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred
after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.

The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians, including
almost half a million children under 14, but the immediate postwar
artificial allied starvation program killed almost 3 million people,
and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing killed another several
millions in the eastern provinces. Of the original population of 14
million in the eastern provinces, only 10 million survived. Dr. Konrad
Adenauer, the first postwar chancellor, estimated the losses in the
east as high as six million. The allies arranged for a reign of terror
against ethnic Germans who were not official German citizens, and the
death toll among them went into the millions also.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:36 EDT 2009
Article: 2006169 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:42:03 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:47:11 -0400, in
><3jlet49i4c1qqbkpf03uvbt3q4g83ta0g1@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:09:02 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 3/31/2009 2:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:32:54 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On 3/30/2009 9:39 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:19:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>> [...]
>> >>> 
>> >>>>>> Who started what is debatable. I see you are sticking to the
>> >>>>>>  thoughtless allied propaganda claims. That is part of the
>> >>>>>> reason I reject the rest of your stories. AJP Taylor's book
>> >>>>>> "The Origins of the Second World War" makes some sense,
>> >>>>>> whereas you never have.
>> >>>>>> 
>> >>>>> I have read his book more than once and there is a great deal
>> >>>>> of truth in it.  Actually, his book is an example of
>> >>>>> *legitimate* revisionism.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> But the fact remains that Hitler invaded Poland after having
>> >>>>> been explicitly told, several months before, that if he did so,
>> >>>>> treaty obligations would require England to intervene.
>> >>>> Britain said that the Polish frontier wasn't worth the bones of a
>> >>>>  single British grenadier, and suddenly allowing Poland to keep a
>> >>>> few square kilometres of stolen German land was worth the
>> >>>> sacrifice of more than fifty million people. Poland was merely an
>> >>>> excuse to try to legitimize a war that Churchill had planned for
>> >>>> years.
>> >>> Even if that were true, which it isn't,
>> >> 
>> >> We have only your assertion for that, and it simply isn't worth much.
>> >> 
>> >No, we have both German and British documents that confirm it.
>> 
>> Bullshit.
>
>We have both British and German documents that agree that Hitler knew
>the risk he was taking when he invaded Poland, but did it anyway.

Poland was a convenient pretext engineered by Britain. Failing that,
some other excuse would have been found to have a war against Germany.
War against Germany had been pretty much decided when the war party of
Churchill, Vansitart, Cooper, etc. came to power in Britain. It would
not have made any difference what Hitler might have done after 1938.

Britain had its own agenda for launching WW2, and it had nothing to do
with Poland, a country that the British leaders viewed with total
contempt and derision.

>
>> >>> the fact remains that Hitler knew before he invaded Poland that
>> >>> Britain was obliged to come to Poland's defence.
>> >> 
>> >> Nonsense. Britain didn't come to Poland's defence since they said not
>> >>  a peep about the simultaneous Soviet invasion.
>> >
>> >They declared war.
>> 
>> Britain wanted war for its own reasons, not to "save" Poland. They
>> didn't give a flying shit about Poland.
>
>The fact remains that Hitler knew before he invaded Poland that
>Britain was obliged to come to Poland's defence.
>
>> >>>>> And Goebbels and his wife murdered their own children.
>> >>>> I guess they saw visions of Nemmersdorf and numerous other places
>> >>>> the allies visited.
>> >>> No, they were simply fanatical and selfish.
>> 
>> That is just your simple-minded historical tripe.
>
>That is an observation based on their actions.  Almost every Nazi
>agreed that Goebbels was one of the most fanatical Nazis.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:37 EDT 2009
Article: 2006197 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: freed from holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 5, 1:21 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:05:24 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >news:ds5at45sifa63mni4nf4aet17jc1fq6okr@4ax.com...
>> >> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:17 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>   Yes, but the laws would have to be changed first, followed with
>> >>>pardons.
>>
>> >>>   Judges would not be able to overturn those convictions on there
>> >>>own; there is no legal protection of freedom of speech in those
>> >>>places.
>>
>> >> In Germany, supposedly there actually IS freedom of speech and freedom
>> >> of opinion, so the propaganda laws are probably unconstitutional,
>>
>> >As to "probably unconstitiutional", you could try actually reading the
>> >constitution.
>>
>> >Article 5, Paragraph 2 of the Basic Law details the limitations on speech
>> >and expression:
>>
>> >"These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in
>> >provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal
>> >honor. "
>>
>> All the basic rights of Germans are qualified by the ending phrase "or
>> as provided otherwise by law." In other words, Germans have no rights
>> at all, or at least not significantly more than those they enjoyed
>> under the constitution in place when Hitler was in power where the
>> list of basic universal rights was also qualified by "unless we
>> legislate otherwise.".
>   The constitution does protect against speech against unilateral
>executive power.
>
>   Speech can only be criminalized by the legislative process, not by
>executive order.

Sorry Mike, but you have Germany confused with the USA. In the USA,
Presidents are practically dictators who can apparently overrule
legislatures. No German Chancellor has ever had that power. Power
(Imperium) in Germany rests with the Reichstag/Bundestag and has for
centuries. Even the Emperor wasn't in a position to just do as he
wished, quite unlike the American president who behaves like Louis XIV
with his famous comment "I am the state".

The fact remains, however, that the various basic rights of Germans
are all qualified and limited with the line "pursuant to a law".

Typical is Article 10: Secrecy of the mail and secrecy of posts and
telecommunications are inviolable. Restrictions may be ordered only
pursuant to a law.

Clearly, their concept of the term "inviolable" is rather different
>from mine. In other words, the secrecy of the mail, etc. is NOT
inviolable. The article on freedom of opinion, freedom of the press,
etc. is all written in the same style. In other words, none of those
freedoms exist in Germany since all of them are at the caprice of the
German authorities.



>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:37 EDT 2009
Article: 2006198 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 5, 9:08 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>  German leaders believed in death before dishonor.
>   And yet they ended up dishonored AND dead.
>
>>They knew the
>> allies were subhuman monsters:
>   Their Japanese allies were certainly subhuman monsters.
>
>   Read about the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.

Given the allied crimes against Japan, they are the very last ones
that should accuse anybody else of being subhuman monsters. 

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:37 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 5, 9:09 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>  Here are some quotes from "With Hitler on the Road to Power" by Dr.
>> Otto Dietrich
>   Hitler's road to power was a road to ruin.

Britain's two wars against Germany were directed at a commercial and
trade rival who had, in Britain's view, become too powerful and had to
be brought down. It had little to do with the governments in place at
the time. Even a government consisting of religious pacifists would
have been attacked by Britain if Britain thought that they somehow
presented a challenge to Britain's world hegemony position.

The only good thing to develop out of WW1 and WW2 is the destruction
of the British Empire and the reduction of Britain to a relatively
obscure island off the coast of France. Britain has been the source of
most of the turmoil in Europe these last five hundred years.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2006205 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:13:05 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:df522be9-1437-4428-9ee4-fd2c5e7fff99@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 4, 1:15 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>> viestissä:4dc5f70d-aeaa-4bbd-81a2-bbede0dc8...@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 4, 10:19 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>> > viestissä:6poet4l0uv79dpgbvns0tmh8f4r4jm9...@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > >>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> > >>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> > >>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>> > >>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen
>> > >>> deutsche
>> > >>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>> > >>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die 
>> > >>> Partisanen
>> > >>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben
>> > >>> aber
>> > >>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>>
>> > >>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie
>> > >>auch
>> > >>gewinnen.
>>
>> > > Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.
>>
>> > >>PvH
>>
>> > The last sentence is not true, either.
>> > But I´m sorry if I personallu offended You. Maybe some of your relatives
>> > died in those mountains.
>> > The world politics and war is not a football game. So what was the point
>> > in
>> > occupying that territory, of any territories. Your explenation "as the 
>> > big
>> > boys did that before" is childish.
>> > Topi
>> >>>>>And your support of plowing Germans is crazy insane.
>>
>> OK. Let´s play it that way.
>>
>> If a German soldier came to my door, tried to steel my cows and last
>> potatos, rape my wife and kill my sons, yes I would kill him and plough 
>> his
>> body to the ground. I could not ever allow to erect a memorial in his
>> honour.
>>
>> If the killing of German brutal beast in that case is wrong, crazy and
>> insane in Your mind, we cannot live in this same planet.
>>
>> Topi
>
>>What if a group of Serbs, after WWI attacked an ethnic German village
>>in Hungary and stole cows; should they be plowed?  The Serbs I mean.
>>What about the Boers in Africa?  Should they be plowed?
>>What about the English that attacked the Boers?  Should they be plowed?
>
>You get what You sow. The Germans got what they deserved on the banks of 
>Volga or on the outskirts of Grozny. Americans met their faith on Mekong 
>River. It is understandable that everyone is willing to defend his home and 
>family. It is all the same to me if the brute at my door was from Afganistan 
>or from Österreich.
>War crimes should not be awarded with memorials as the tourists in my 
>illustration in Volgograd demanded.

The Americans hold the world record for the number of wars and foreign
military adventures, but you apparently don't regard them as monsters.

Incidentally, Finland only exists because it was freed from Russian
control in 1917 by German soldiers. Perhaps the world would have been
a better place had Finland remained a Russian province? The Finnish
language would be extinct by now, and my ears would not be bent by
silly Finnish whiners.

>
>Topi
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2006206 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:35:12 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:cujft41lgjb070d2hjkmmfcq9ht9fpnc7v@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:15:30 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>>>viestissä:4dc5f70d-aeaa-4bbd-81a2-bbede0dc8d0c@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Apr 4, 10:19 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>>>wrote:
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>>>> viestissä:6poet4l0uv79dpgbvns0tmh8f4r4jm9...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> > On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>>> >>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>>>> >>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>>>> >>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen
>>>> >>> deutsche
>>>> >>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>>>> >>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die 
>>>> >>> Partisanen
>>>> >>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben
>>>> >>> aber
>>>> >>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>>>>
>>>> >>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie
>>>> >>auch
>>>> >>gewinnen.
>>>>
>>>> > Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.
>>>>
>>>> >>PvH
>>>>
>>>> The last sentence is not true, either.
>>>> But I´m sorry if I personallu offended You. Maybe some of your relatives
>>>> died in those mountains.
>>>> The world politics and war is not a football game. So what was the point
>>>> in
>>>> occupying that territory, of any territories. Your explenation "as the 
>>>> big
>>>> boys did that before" is childish.
>>>> Topi
>>>
>>>>>>>>And your support of plowing Germans is crazy insane.
>>>
>>>
>>>OK. Let´s play it that way.
>>>
>>>If a German soldier came to my door, tried to steel my cows and last
>>>potatos, rape my wife and kill my sons, yes I would kill him and plough 
>>>his
>>>body to the ground. I could not ever allow to erect a memorial in his
>>>honour.
>>
>> German soldiers don't do any of those things, at least not legally,
>> quite unlike allied soldiers where such behaviour is encouraged and
>> rewarded.
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>They don´t nowadays. They did during the WWII. I thought we were talking 
>about history.

They have never been permitted those sorts of actions, at least not in
the last five hundred years. You are talking nonsensical allied war
propaganda, not history. All the WW1 British propaganda was eventually
shown to be false, and I suspect that most of the WW2 propaganda will
also eventually be shown to be false.

>Topi
>
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>> The German military code is quite harsh on people who do any of the
>> actions you describe in your diatribe, but it was par for the course
>> for Soviet soldateska.
>>
>>>
>>>If the killing of German brutal beast in that case is wrong, crazy and
>>>insane in Your mind, we cannot live in this same planet.
>>
>> There is nothing brutal or beastly about German military personnel.
>> You are simply an ignorant bigot.
>>>
>>>Topi
>>>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:38 EDT 2009
Article: 2006207 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Europe’s Right is embracing its Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:11:31 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 5, 9:13 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>    The West is the White race.
>>
>>     The goal of America is to destroy the White race. The
>> multi-culture and pluralism they push is only at the expense of
>> Whites. No one is trying to push multi-culture in China or Japan or
>> anyplace but on the Whites. And they promote racial intermarriage.
>> If things continue as they are the White race is doomed.
>   How does racial intermarriage threaten whites?

If one breeds a German Shepherd with a Bouvier, then none of the
offspring are purebred dogs anymore. Personally, I figure that
interracial marriage ought to be up to the two people involved, but it
is also obvious that the offspring are neither of the genetic
heritages of the parents.

>
>>
>>   And who is doing all of this? It is the USA government and the
>> media, in other words the Jews.
>   Prove that Jews control the government and media.
>
>>
>>   Many Whites are traitors. They support the USA government and their
>> own destruction. We should look for allies. And anyone who wants to
>> remove the Jews from power is our ally. In the past the Japanese were
>> our allies. Today it is the Muslims.
>   I figured you would ally with Hamas and Al Qaeda.
>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:39 EDT 2009
Article: 2006210 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:21:29 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Very interesting of you. You are certainly not here to analyze facts. Hence 
>you point to spelling mistake from others. I do listening to all kinds of 
>people and do not look for spelling mistake to discredit others. Every time 
>you come out in the open here you only expose the character you have.

McVay is just an ignorant jerk with a very low level of education.
Ignore the silly bastard. He has nothing of value to say anyway.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:-pCdnf-cu-tuqUfUnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>Any excuse from a twofaced parasite like we are all aware of. You are
>>>adamantly opposed to any open meaningful discussion without intimidated
>>>others. You reputation is being challenged by people who know who you are.
>>
>> Learn to use a dictionary, moron.
>> You wouldn't know "meaningful discussion" if it bit your sorry ass.
>>
>> Ampigues?
>>
>> Enziglobedia?
>>
>> Lay off the Sterno, Frau Pikelhaube.
>>
>> 138 Statements Demonstrating Leading Revisionist Scholar
>> Kurt Knoll's strict adherence to the high intellectual
>> standards of Holocaust denial:
>>
>> (See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/k/knoll-kurt/ for
>> the first 128 -- (Honest, Folks, I'm not making them up!)
>>
>> 129. "How is it going you uderedjucatet vegetable."
>>     <2UBjl.10538$PH1.4917@edtnps82>,, Feb. 8, 2009
>>
>> 130. "It stinks like Jewish garlic keep it."
>>     , Feb. 12, 2009
>>
>> 131. "We all know you are here to but on a show trusting you we do not."
>>     , Feb. 12, 2009
>>
>> 132. "Why is it then American politicians take a trip to Israel and
>>     worship a brick wall called the whaling wall."
>>     , Feb. 20, 2009
>>
>> 133. "Hey you primitive Fuckhead it does not scare you when the
>>     holohoax industrie can take do court people and take them
>>     to a country who executing the will of Israel to punish
>>     people for their opinion to protect Israel at any cost.
>>     This is worse that the middle ages where not believer did
>>     get burnet on the stake for not believing in the holy ghost."
>>     , March 2, 2009
>>
>> 134. "When was this where did the go first."
>>     <7LArl.15187$Db2.8415@edtnps83>, March 4, 2009
>>
>> 135. "You should talk to some remaking prisoners if Iks camp that
>>     is if you are Men enough." ,
>>     March 7, 2009
>>
>> 136. "When it is about zundel he is considered a non conforming I
>>     sore for the holocaust industries." ,
>>     March 17, 2009
>>
>> 137. "One has to look at the Jewish hat mongers. Everyone they say
>>     something they spit out the word Nazi scare mongering is their
>>     main diet. How much longer will he hold the whole world at ransom."
>>     , March 21, 2009
>>
>> 138. "Intersting and what is your real name.Ingeneer may invet
>>     something but the people who use it are no vegetaples. You can talk
>>     all you want people with brain will not trust you."
>>     , April 2, 2009
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:39 EDT 2009
Article: 2006291 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:41:26 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:439it4dr0j4l81eg9vf4uoaqg6ate5i3kr@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:50:34 -0400, in
>> <8olet41l48jo8gqbcjcv5d176e352ut497@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>> >>>>>> by James Buchanan
>>> >>>>>> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>>> >>>>>> political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>>> >>>>>   How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>>> >>>> What is special about May 1?
>>> >>>   It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>>> >>
>>> >> The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services that
>>> >> decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
>>> >> machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
>>> >> appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
>>> >> special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
>>> >> catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
>>> >> had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another one
>>> >> of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly become
>>> >> the pattern of allied "liberations".
>>> >
>>> >I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>> When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.
>>>
>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
>>> started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.
>>
>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>
>And here I thought these folks were upset over the Dresden raid.
>
>But apparently, Mr. Ebersdorf seems to think that is something that just 
>didn't happen.

What are you babbling about? Doing the old trick of putting words into
people's mouths that they didn't say or intend?

Dresden is part of the roughly one million civilians who died as a
result of the allied campaign of terror bombing, so it was not
forgotten. The death toll in the postwar period drastically exceeds
anything that happened during the war.

>
>-pk
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2006293 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:07:06 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:drfkt4hakufh342boielnnkqmsldo3kdnm@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:13:05 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>> Incidentally, Finland only exists because it was freed from Russian
>> control in 1917 by German soldiers.
>
>That is not true.

Of course it is true. Russia had taken Finland from the Swedes a
considerable time earlier and turned it into a Russian province. The
Russian defeat in 1917 created Finland, as it created Estonia, Latvia,
and Lithuania. The Red Finnish brigades outnumbered the White Finnish
brigades by more than 5:1, so the Reds would have won, making Finland
part of the USSR. It was German soldiers who prevented that from
happening. The Finns are rather ungrateful bastards.

>
>>Perhaps the world would have been
>> a better place had Finland remained a Russian province?
>
>To this I cannot answer...
>
>>The Finnish
>> language would be extinct by now, and my ears would not be bent by
>> silly Finnish whiners.
>
>That is possible but not certain.
>
>Topi
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2006294 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 6, 11:13 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>> viestissä:df522be9-1437-4428-9ee4-fd2c5e7ff...@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 4, 1:15 pm, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  kirjoitti
>> > viestissä:4dc5f70d-aeaa-4bbd-81a2-bbede0dc8...@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Apr 4, 10:19 am, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>> > > viestissä:6poet4l0uv79dpgbvns0tmh8f4r4jm9...@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > > On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:57:07 +0200, "peter van haag" 
>> > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > >>"Truthseeker"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> > > >>news:71qBl.19804$Db2.13881@edtnps83...
>> > > >>> Ist ja schon ganz interessant. Immer liest man so was die deutschen
>> > > >>> gemacht haben, In Kroatien oder Jugoslawien hatten die Partisanen
>> > > >>> deutsche
>> > > >>> gefangen in einer Hölle eingemauert und verrecken lassen. Als die
>> > > >>> deutschen dieses Gebiet zurück eroberten haben sie dann die
>> > > >>> Partisanen
>> > > >>> umgebracht. man kann immer nur hören was die deutschen gemacht haben
>> > > >>> aber
>> > > >>> was die andern gemacht haben wird verschwiegen.
>>
>> > > >>So ist das halt....man darf nicht nur Kriege beginnen....man muß sie
>> > > >>auch
>> > > >>gewinnen.
>>
>> > > > Der zweite Weltkrieg wurde in London entworfen, nicht in Berlin.
>>
>> > > >>PvH
>>
>> > > The last sentence is not true, either.
>> > > But I´m sorry if I personallu offended You. Maybe some of your relatives
>> > > died in those mountains.
>> > > The world politics and war is not a football game. So what was the point
>> > > in
>> > > occupying that territory, of any territories. Your explenation "as the
>> > > big
>> > > boys did that before" is childish.
>> > > Topi
>> > >>>>>And your support of plowing Germans is crazy insane.
>>
>> > OK. Let´s play it that way.
>>
>> > If a German soldier came to my door, tried to steel my cows and last
>> > potatos, rape my wife and kill my sons, yes I would kill him and plough
>> > his
>> > body to the ground. I could not ever allow to erect a memorial in his
>> > honour.
>>
>> > If the killing of German brutal beast in that case is wrong, crazy and
>> > insane in Your mind, we cannot live in this same planet.
>>
>> > Topi
>> >What if a group of Serbs, after WWI attacked an ethnic German village
>> >in Hungary and stole cows; should they be plowed?  The Serbs I mean.
>> >What about the Boers in Africa?  Should they be plowed?
>> >What about the English that attacked the Boers?  Should they be plowed?
>>
>> You get what You sow. The Germans got what they deserved on the banks of
>> Volga or on the outskirts of Grozny. Americans met their faith on Mekong
>> River. It is understandable that everyone is willing to defend his home and
>> family. It is all the same to me if the brute at my door was from Afganistan
>> or from Österreich.
>> War crimes should not be awarded with memorials as the tourists in my
>> illustration in Volgograd demanded.
>>
>> Topi
>
>Well your general point has merit.  People should mind their own
>business and not make war.  They should not be violent in word or
>deed.  Ambition unfortunately is one of the things that make the world
>go round.  They should practice the commandment:  'Thou shalt not
>covet they neighbour's stuff'.
>Remember that Germany was forced into war.  The treaty of Versailles
>was a very violent 'treaty.'  They invaded the Soviet Union because
>they knew that the SU was going to invade them.  In hindsight 'they'
>should have waited for the Soviets.

I'm not so sure about that. Doing nothing would have meant that there
would be fighting and carnage on German soil already in 1941 rather
than late 1944 as was actually the case.

If one must have a field campaign, it is usually a good idea to have
it somewhere else.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:40 EDT 2009
Article: 2006335 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:24:14 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:17:45 -0400, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 13:05:11 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 4/4/2009 8:44 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:20:44 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >>  Holman) wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> In article , 
>> >>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:49:41 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi 
>> >>>> (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>>>> Your sentence doesn't make sense. Deborah Lipstadt was not the 
>> >>>>> one resorting to use of the courts in this particular case.
>> >>>> Nobody said she was. Irving was trying to get the woman off his 
>> >>>> back with her character assassination techniques,...
>> >>> How was Deborah Lipstadt using "character assassination 
>> >>> techniques"? She wrote that he was a dishonest historian, something
>> >>>  that had been known since David Irving's lost libel suit and the 
>> >>> fallout from his book about the bombing of Dresden,
>> >> 
>> >> Irving's book on Dresden is consistent with the observations and 
>> >> recollections of people who were there. Lipstadt is just another paid
>> >>  propagandist whose job it is to excuse or minimize allied crimes.
>> >
>> >Actually, as was proven in court, Irving's book on Dresden is not
>> >consistent with the observations and recollections of people who were
>> >there, and certainly not with the facts.
>> 
>> I personally know people who were there and I find them much more
>> credible than some allied kangaroo court with the assignment to
>> minimize and downplay allied war crimes. Court statements do not
>> necessarily equate to truth. Judges tend to rule in a manner
>> consistent with the wishes of the people who hired them and who pay
>> them. The same thing goes for you. I fully expect you to excuse allied
>> war crimes because that is your assignment, but I'm under no
>> obligation to believe you, and I basically don't.
>
>You obviously do not have to believe anything I say, although you and
>I both know that I have no "assignment" here.  Irving's problems
>though were not in an allied court.  You should read up on the lawsuit
>he lost.

A British court is not an impartial institution since it is part of a
system that has a vested interest in the allied version of WW1 and
WW2. 



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2006337 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
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On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:44:52 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:34:22 -0400, in
><9upjt4l35faa3niebhv9v979t9gpep9ofa@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:42:03 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:47:11 -0400, in
>> ><3jlet49i4c1qqbkpf03uvbt3q4g83ta0g1@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:09:02 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On 3/31/2009 2:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:32:54 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>> On 3/30/2009 9:39 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:19:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> >> >>>>  wrote:
>> >> >>> [...]
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>>>>> Who started what is debatable. I see you are sticking to the
>> >> >>>>>>  thoughtless allied propaganda claims. That is part of the
>> >> >>>>>> reason I reject the rest of your stories. AJP Taylor's book
>> >> >>>>>> "The Origins of the Second World War" makes some sense,
>> >> >>>>>> whereas you never have.
>> >> >>>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> I have read his book more than once and there is a great deal
>> >> >>>>> of truth in it.  Actually, his book is an example of
>> >> >>>>> *legitimate* revisionism.
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> But the fact remains that Hitler invaded Poland after having
>> >> >>>>> been explicitly told, several months before, that if he did so,
>> >> >>>>> treaty obligations would require England to intervene.
>> >> >>>> Britain said that the Polish frontier wasn't worth the bones of a
>> >> >>>>  single British grenadier, and suddenly allowing Poland to keep a
>> >> >>>> few square kilometres of stolen German land was worth the
>> >> >>>> sacrifice of more than fifty million people. Poland was merely an
>> >> >>>> excuse to try to legitimize a war that Churchill had planned for
>> >> >>>> years.
>> >> >>> Even if that were true, which it isn't,
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> We have only your assertion for that, and it simply isn't worth much.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >No, we have both German and British documents that confirm it.
>> >> 
>> >> Bullshit.
>> >
>> >We have both British and German documents that agree that Hitler knew
>> >the risk he was taking when he invaded Poland, but did it anyway.
>> 
>> Poland was a convenient pretext engineered by Britain. Failing that,
>> some other excuse would have been found to have a war against Germany.
>> War against Germany had been pretty much decided when the war party of
>> Churchill, Vansitart, Cooper, etc. came to power in Britain. It would
>> not have made any difference what Hitler might have done after 1938.
>
>What I find funny about this is that it is contradicted by Hitler's
>own remarks.  He was for example livid that the Munich Conference cost
>him the opportunity to invade Czechoslovakia in 1938 and made it clear
>that he would not be denied his chance against Poland in 1939.

All of the Versailles revisions had been essentially bloodless, and
Churchill and the boys were determined that the last revision wouldn't
be. The war party came into power in 1938, and British policy changed
dramatically towards aiming for a new war. It is irrelevant that
Churchill personally did not achieve power until later. His group set
the tone.

>
>I might add that Churchill did not become Prime Minister until 1941,
>and was not admitted to the cabinet until the war had already started,
>so your "War against Germany had been pretty much decided when the war
>party of Churchill, Vansitart, Cooper, etc. came to power in Britain"
>comment rings kind of hollow, not to mention wrong.
> 
>> Britain had its own agenda for launching WW2, and it had nothing to do
>> with Poland, a country that the British leaders viewed with total
>> contempt and derision.
>
>Then what was it?  And what is your support for your statement?

Postwar  the British turned the Polish government-in-exile over to
Stalin, knowing that they would be promptly executed, and it didn't
make so much as a beep as the entire country was handed over to
Stalin's mercies. Poland's job was to provide a pretext for a war
against Germany, and after that had been achieved, Poland was totally
expendable. I am aware of your naive polyanna views of British
motivations, but they don't wash.


>
>[...]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:41 EDT 2009
Article: 2006338 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:35:57 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:23:23 -0400, in
>, Doc Tony
> wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> 
>> > On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:50:34 -0400, in
>> > <8olet41l48jo8gqbcjcv5d176e352ut497@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> >>On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> >>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >>>>>wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>by James Buchanan
>> >>>>>>>>Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>> >>>>>>>>political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>  How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>What is special about May 1?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services that
>> >>>>decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
>> >>>>machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
>> >>>>appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
>> >>>>special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
>> >>>>catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
>> >>>>had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another one
>> >>>>of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly become
>> >>>>the pattern of allied "liberations".
>> >>>
>> >>>I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.
>> >>
>> >>LOL
>> >>
>> >>When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.
>> >>
>> >>It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
>> >>started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> No doubt, Gord, the same "Papagei®" Ebe 'support' [cough-cough] that 
>> caused Ebe to announce that the Führer was merely acting in 
>> "self-defense" [!] with the invasion of Poland because Ebe says that it 
>> was a matter of common knowledge that the Poles were "mobilizing" [!] 
>> weeks before September 1, 1939

Perhaps you could urge the arsehole who infests Darmstadt to read a
few history books. Poland ordered general mobilization of 25-Aug-1939,
de facto a declaration of war against Germany. Germany took over a
week to respond, whereas American reaction to a similar circumstance
would be one hell of a lot quicker.


> and thus, per Ebe, the Führer had no 
>> other choice but to 'defend' the Heimat by invading Poland! I assume, at 
>> least to hear Ebe tell it, the other overrun nations were no doubt 
>> similarly "mobilizing" and once again the Führer had to engage in "self 
>> protection" and strike first.
>> 
>> Shades of Crackpot® Freddy Berg asking all who will listen to literally 
>> get down on their knees and "be eternally grateful to Adolf Hitler" 
>> [sic] for "saving western civilization" [sic]  via the Führer's alleged 
>> "pre-emptive" [sic] invasion of the USSR. I'm beginning to wonder, Gord, 
>> if Papagei® Ebe isn't doing some ad hoc ghost-drooling for Berg's 
>> website articles! Perhaps Ebe could join Berg on the "producer gas" 
>> [sic] thing and thereby mutually, shall we say, spread the flatus of 
>> such 'producer gas' rhetoric!
>
>I think in terms of passing gas, as it were, those two are experts.
> 
>[...]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2006339 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:38:29 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:30:02 -0400, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
>> >> started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.
>> >
>> >Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>> 
>> The German government archives and the writings of several dozen
>> authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest
>> rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred
>> after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.
>> 
>> The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians, including
>> almost half a million children under 14, but the immediate postwar
>> artificial allied starvation program killed almost 3 million people,
>> and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing killed another several
>> millions in the eastern provinces. Of the original population of 14
>> million in the eastern provinces, only 10 million survived. Dr. Konrad
>> Adenauer, the first postwar chancellor, estimated the losses in the
>> east as high as six million. The allies arranged for a reign of terror
>> against ethnic Germans who were not official German citizens, and the
>> death toll among them went into the millions also.
>
>I have never heard any of this.  Do you have references?

I have a library of several dozen books on the topic. Perhaps you
should try doing a bit of reading so you actually know something about
the topic before attempting to engage people in discussions where, by
your own admission, you know and understand very little. What you
haven't heard of is not my problem.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2006340 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:53:19 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Michael Ejercito  wrote:
>
>>On Apr 6, 5:17 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>> England's Guilt
>>> by Joseph Goebbels
>>>
>>   He killed himself and his family.
>
>Correction.
>
>He had someone else kill his family. He attempted to kill himself, but
>couldn't even do that without help.
>
>He was a professional liar, and a coward, and we're all better off now
>that he's dead.

Are you projecting your deficient personality traits onto somebody
else, Klaus?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:42 EDT 2009
Article: 2006341 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
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On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 6, 10:12 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 5, 9:08 am, Topaz  wrote:
>> >>  German leaders believed in death before dishonor.
>> >   And yet they ended up dishonored AND dead.
>>
>> >>They knew the
>> >> allies were subhuman monsters:
>> >   Their Japanese allies were certainly subhuman monsters.
>>
>> >   Read about the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.
>>
>> Given the allied crimes against Japan, they are the very last ones
>> that should accuse anybody else of being subhuman monsters.
>   What crimes would they be?

Read a few books, you might learn something. You clearly are ignorant
of the topic at hand, so why are you cluttering this newsgroup?

Japan was the usual cowardly American campaign against defenceless
women and children, their ghoulish specialty before and since the
murderous campaign against Japanese civilians.

Everything that the USA has done in its miserable history comes under
the general heading of "dishonourable".


>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2006877 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:50:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:18:07 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A speech isn't proof. Any moron can make a speech. Any HALF-WIT can
>>>make a speech.
>>
>> In that case your posts don't prove anything.
>
>Sure they do. They prove that nazi windbags like yourself are high on
>glue and completely unable to support their nazi bullshit with facts.
>
>For instance, I supplied documented proof that Goebbels was a liar.

He wasn't any more of liar than your typical allied politician. You
are your typical sanctimonious hypocrite.

>You just posted more speeches, hoping that by supply page after page
>of rhetoric no one would notice that you had no answer.
>
>That's why nazis are losers, and always will be.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2006878 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:54:05 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:50alt45rja6m80087r0eepu1hnjrektjku@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:41:26 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:439it4dr0j4l81eg9vf4uoaqg6ate5i3kr@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:50:34 -0400, in
>>>> <8olet41l48jo8gqbcjcv5d176e352ut497@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>> by James Buchanan
>>>>> >>>>>> Let's say the Germans merely removed the Jews from positions of
>>>>> >>>>>> political power and banned them from the legal profession.
>>>>> >>>>>   How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>>>>> >>>> What is special about May 1?
>>>>> >>>   It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed services 
>>>>> >> that
>>>>> >> decided a week later that it was impractical to continue. The
>>>>> >> machinery of state continued to function and a new chancellor was
>>>>> >> appointed in the form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing
>>>>> >> special about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the
>>>>> >> catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May 8, 1945 than
>>>>> >> had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8, 1945. It was another 
>>>>> >> one
>>>>> >> of those Iraqi-style allied "liberations" that have now clearly 
>>>>> >> become
>>>>> >> the pattern of allied "liberations".
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany basically
>>>>> started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into shadow.
>>>>
>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>
>>>And here I thought these folks were upset over the Dresden raid.
>>>
>>>But apparently, Mr. Ebersdorf seems to think that is something that just
>>>didn't happen.
>>
>> What are you babbling about? Doing the old trick of putting words into
>> people's mouths that they didn't say or intend?
>
>You are implying that there were a negligible number of deaths in Germany 
>during the war, in the process tossing aside 1.5 million civilan deaths.

At no point did I ever say that there were a negligible number of
war-time deaths in Germany, only that those figures are significantly
smaller than postwar losses.

>
>> Dresden is part of the roughly one million civilians who died as a
>> result of the allied campaign of terror bombing, so it was not
>> forgotten. The death toll in the postwar period drastically exceeds
>> anything that happened during the war.
>
>So you think that a million civilians killed is nothing?

You seem to think that, especially if they are German. At no point did
I ever say or imply that.

>
>Incidentally, the wartime German civilian death toll is closer to 1.54 
>million, their military death toll 5.53 million.

These are figures you have pulled out of a hat. Civilian losses
exceeded military losses during the war. Postwar losses among military
personnel also rivalled the war-time totals.

>
>There was no postwar starvation program.

That explains why the Americans prevented the Red Cross and other
international relief agencies from helping anybody in Germany until
1947, two whole years after the end of "official" hostilities. How
does your model account for the fact that more than two million people
in western Germany died of starvation during the allied occupation?

>
>What there was, was an attempt to feed a vast number of people that the 
>Nazis had made homeless by launching a war.

That is cynical nonsense, given that it was the allied terrorist
bombing and the illegal allied ethnic cleansing that created the
homelessness problem in Germany. Besides, being homeless and starving
are two quite separate issues that you are conflating for purposes of
deception.

In addition, the actual facts do not support your silly assertion that
the Nazis "launched" the war. The war was launched from London. It was
Britain and France that attacked Germany, supposedly over Poland, not
the other way around. The facts also show that neither Britain nor
France gave a flying shit about Poland, Polish territorial integrity,
or Polish independence. Poland was a convenient excuse, and nothing
more.



>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Gord McFee
>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>
>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2006879 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: freed from holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:32:04 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:21dkt45qp3pm7ehgh0lbsjqs08uo5l7v0v@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 5, 1:21 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:05:24 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:ds5at45sifa63mni4nf4aet17jc1fq6okr@4ax.com...
>>>> >> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:17 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>> Yes, but the laws would have to be changed first, followed with
>>>> >>>pardons.
>>>>
>>>> >>> Judges would not be able to overturn those convictions on there
>>>> >>>own; there is no legal protection of freedom of speech in those
>>>> >>>places.
>>>>
>>>> >> In Germany, supposedly there actually IS freedom of speech and 
>>>> >> freedom
>>>> >> of opinion, so the propaganda laws are probably unconstitutional,
>>>>
>>>> >As to "probably unconstitiutional", you could try actually reading the
>>>> >constitution.
>>>>
>>>> >Article 5, Paragraph 2 of the Basic Law details the limitations on 
>>>> >speech
>>>> >and expression:
>>>>
>>>> >"These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general 
>>>> >laws, in
>>>> >provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to 
>>>> >personal
>>>> >honor. "
>>>>
>>>> All the basic rights of Germans are qualified by the ending phrase "or
>>>> as provided otherwise by law." In other words, Germans have no rights
>>>> at all, or at least not significantly more than those they enjoyed
>>>> under the constitution in place when Hitler was in power where the
>>>> list of basic universal rights was also qualified by "unless we
>>>> legislate otherwise.".
>>>   The constitution does protect against speech against unilateral
>>>executive power.
>>>
>>>   Speech can only be criminalized by the legislative process, not by
>>>executive order.
>>
>> Sorry Mike, but you have Germany confused with the USA. In the USA,
>> Presidents are practically dictators who can apparently overrule
>> legislatures. No German Chancellor has ever had that power. Power
>> (Imperium) in Germany rests with the Reichstag/Bundestag and has for
>> centuries. Even the Emperor wasn't in a position to just do as he
>> wished, quite unlike the American president who behaves like Louis XIV
>> with his famous comment "I am the state".
>>
>> The fact remains, however, that the various basic rights of Germans
>> are all qualified and limited with the line "pursuant to a law".
>
>Which means that the limitations are accepted in the constitution.
>
>This means, simply, that you are agreeing that the limitations are in fact 
>constitutional.

No, I'm saying that the civil rights "protections" in the Basic Law
are meaningless and self-contradictory. The same phrases were in the
German consitution during the NS period. They didn't protect anybody
then, and they don't protect anybody now.


>
>>
>> Typical is Article 10: Secrecy of the mail and secrecy of posts and
>> telecommunications are inviolable. Restrictions may be ordered only
>> pursuant to a law.
>>
>> Clearly, their concept of the term "inviolable" is rather different
>> from mine. In other words, the secrecy of the mail, etc. is NOT
>> inviolable. The article on freedom of opinion, freedom of the press,
>> etc. is all written in the same style. In other words, none of those
>> freedoms exist in Germany since all of them are at the caprice of the
>> German authorities.
>
>Not by caprice, but rather from deliberation by elected representatives. 
>If the German people didn't like the results, they wouldn't re-elect those 
>representatives, and would elect ones that act to their will.
>
>You've already agreed that the limitations are constitutional, despite 
>having first said that they aren't.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2006880 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:33:55 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> >
>> >You obviously do not have to believe anything I say, although you and
>> >I both know that I have no "assignment" here.  Irving's problems
>> >though were not in an allied court.  You should read up on the lawsuit
>> >he lost.
>> 
>> A British court is not an impartial institution since it is part of a
>> system that has a vested interest in the allied version of WW1 and
>> WW2. 
>
>The issue at stake was not the allied or any other version of WW I and WW
>II. It was whether Deborah Lipstadt had, as alleged by David Irving,
>libeled David Irving when she defamed him, justifying her defamatory
>claims with examples, as a dishonest historian in her book *Denying the
>Holocaust. The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory*.
>
>The outcome of the trial was essentially the following:
>
>1. David Irving informed the court that although he had held more extreme
>views when Deborah Lipstadt had published her book in 1993, as of the
>trial, in spring 2000, he did not deny that the Nazis systematically
>killed millions of European Jews, but he did question whether this killing
>was a matter of state policy, whether Hitler was initially aware of the
>killing or, when he found out about it, of its extent, and whether gas
>chambers, the existence and homicidal use of which David Irving did not
>deny, were used to the extent claimed in the standard literature.
>
>2. David Irving was unable to demonstrate ti the court that any of the
>critical claims Lipstadt had made about his methodology and writings were
>untrue or malicious and thus either unjustified or libelous.
>
>3. David Irving's two expert witnesses informed the court that they were
>in general agreement with Deborah Lipstadt's criticism of Irving's
>unprofessionalism.
>
>4. Deborah Lipstadt's defense team was able to produce dozens more
>examples, some of them from writings that had nothing to do with
>Holocaust-related issues,  of David Irving's dishonesty as a historian,
>thus further supporting her criticism of his lack of professional ethics.
>
>Since it was a libel trial, and David Irving was unable to demonstrate to
>the court that even a single critical claim made by Deborah Lipstadt about
>his dishonesty as a historian was both demonstrably untrue and malicious,
>he lost that case. Justified professional criticism is, by its very
>definition, defamatory, but not libelous.
>
>This has nothing to do with the court's "vested interest" in upholding a
>certain version of historical events. David Irving's professional
>practices and writings were subjected to demonstrably true and justified
>professional criticism. He reacted by suing his critic for libel, in the
>hope of silencing her and preventing such criticism from becoming known to
>a wider audience. Even pleading his own case in court, Daviud Irving was
>unable to demonstrate that anything written about him by Deborah Lipstadt
>had been libelous, while Deborah Lipstadt's team succeeded in
>demonstrating to the court that the few examples discussed in her book
>were merely a small sample of a much longer and frequent pattern of
>systematic professional misconduct, an assessment with which David
>Irving's own expert witnesses had no difficulty agreeing. 
>
>If you make yoourself guilty of easily verified professional misconduct
>and someone blows the whistle on you, you have only yourself to blame if
>you sue the whistleblower for libel, hoping to silence your critic, and
>lose.
>
>Judge Charles Gray had no other alternative than rule that David Irving
>had not been libeled, for which reason Irving, by definition, demonstrated
>himself to be a dishonest historian, just as Deborah Lipstadt had claimed.

It was a political judgement made by a politically motivated court.
There are no surprises there.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:44 EDT 2009
Article: 2006881 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:16:57 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <4yMCl.21910$PH1.12470@edtnps82>, "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power they do 
>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. How 
>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how to 
>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion or 
>> implosion.
>
>Knowing that difference has nothing in the least to do with the
>determination of whether an allegation of systematic professional
>misconduct is libelous or frivolous.

Lipstadt's books are of the same low quality as the politically
motivated tripe put out by the pseudo-historian Shirer, who wasn't
even a good journalist let alone an historian.

>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:45 EDT 2009
Article: 2006882 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:26:57 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power they do
>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. How
>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how to
>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion or
>> implosion.
>>
>
>
>David Irving made a career of writing dishonest history

Irving had written all sorts of history books without a single peep of
complaint, until he made the mistake to stepping on the toes of the
holocaust™ industry. He suddenly became an historical hack and was
subjected to a world-wide campaign of vilification and character
assassination.





> and then tried to
>use the British court system to prevent word of this from spreading when
>it was pointed out by a professional historian. He failed to do so, and
>now the entire world knows of his dishonesty. End of story.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:45 EDT 2009
Article: 2006883 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:43:24 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <4yMCl.21910$PH1.12470@edtnps82>, "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power they do 
>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. How 
>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how to 
>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion or 
>> implosion.
>
>Knowing that difference has nothing in the least to do with the
>determination of whether an allegation of systematic professional
>misconduct is libelous or justified.

You are putting far too much weight on a court judgement. Oscar Wilde
lost his libel case against Lord Douglas also, not because Lord
Douglas was innocent or correct, but because Lord Douglas had more
pull with the court because of his social position and power.

All kinds of Alice-in-Wonderland judgements come out of courts. In a
very real sense, courts are theatre and sometimes they constitute
theatre-of-the-absurd.


>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2006885 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 7, 6:58 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:02:20 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 6, 10:12 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >   Their Japanese allies were certainly subhuman monsters.
>>
>> >> >   Read about the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.
>>
>> >> Given the allied crimes against Japan, they are the very last ones
>> >> that should accuse anybody else of being subhuman monsters.
>> >   What crimes would they be?
>>
>> Read a few books, you might learn something. You clearly are ignorant
>> of the topic at hand, so why are you cluttering this newsgroup?
>>
>> Japan was the usual cowardly American campaign against defenceless
>> women and children, their ghoulish specialty before and since the
>> murderous campaign against Japanese civilians.
>>
>   Was the Rape of Nanking cowardly?

An anti-Chinese atrocity years earlier does not excuse American
atrocities later. American atrocities are the fault and responsibility
of Americans, and nobody else.

>
>   How about the Bataan Death March?

Had the Japanese followed the American pattern, all the American
service personnel would have been summarily executed on capture and no
march would have taken place, since corpses don't march at all well.
Americans have to be the world's champion whiners. They like to dish
it out, but if any nasties come their way, they whine and howl
piteously.


>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2006886 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 911 article what gets into breaking one's imperial conditioning
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:26:57 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 7, 6:07 pm, ZuLu  wrote:
>> parri...@yahoo.com escribió:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 7 Apr, 20:04, ZuLu  wrote:
>> >> parri...@yahoo.com escribió:
>>
>> >>> On 7 Apr, 18:05, ZuLu  wrote:
>> >>>> parri...@yahoo.com escribió:
>> >>>>> On 7 Apr, 09:25, RJ11  wrote:
>> >>>>>> In article ,
>> >>>>>>   wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On 6 Apr, 23:45, ZuLu  wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> If I had $5 millions to spent off, I would reward it to the first
>> >>>>>>>> engineering or architecture universities which could be able to
>> >>>>>>>> REPRODUCE the falls with 1/100 scale models.
>> >>>>>>> What would that prove? Obviously you're no engineer, or you wouldn't
>> >>>>>>> even suggest such a pointless exercise.
>> >>>>>>    Not only that the poor bastard is no engineer,  he's clearly
>> >>>>>> not familiar with notions such as "volume" and "area".
>> >>>>> He's a particularly daft and dishonest individual. Even for usenet.
>> >>>> Oh yes, "kill the messenger" is a technique you are familiar, aren't you?
>> >>> No. After all, you are rather daft and dishonest.
>> >> Some example to sustain your accusation?
>>
>> > Sure - look up one of your posts in google groups, click on your name,
>> > then click profile.
>>
>> And?
>>
>> Do you know the Gayssot Act?
>> Try Wiki.
>
>Zulu, these cats are agents.  You can give all the evidence you want;
>they will counter with bullshit.

Bovine excrement is their specialty.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2006887 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:30:39 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:48alt4pqs533vl8mqhqllc5q1ekc7hu9e1@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:07:06 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>>>viestissä:drfkt4hakufh342boielnnkqmsldo3kdnm@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:13:05 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, Finland only exists because it was freed from Russian
>>>> control in 1917 by German soldiers.
>>>
>>>That is not true.
>>
>> Of course it is true. Russia had taken Finland from the Swedes a
>> considerable time earlier and turned it into a Russian province. The
>> Russian defeat in 1917 created Finland, as it created Estonia, Latvia,
>> and Lithuania. The Red Finnish brigades outnumbered the White Finnish
>> brigades by more than 5:1, so the Reds would have won, making Finland
>> part of the USSR. It was German soldiers who prevented that from
>> happening. The Finns are rather ungrateful bastards.
>>
>Finland declared herself independent on December 6th, 1917. That was 
>recognized by Russia, Sweden and France on January 4th, 1918, Germany two 
>days later and other European countries followed soon after.

How does your model explain the Soviet invasion to overturn Finnish
independence? Obviously Lenin did not recognize Finnish independence.

>
>The governement troops had already beaten the red rebels when a division of 
>9500 Germans led by Rudiger von der Goltz came ashore on southern coast of 
>Finland April 4th.
>
>von der Goltz fought the lost worldwar till the end of June 1919 in the 
>Baltic states and even tried a coup d` Ètat in Latvia.
>
>The commander of Finnish armed forces, general Mannerherheim was not 
>grateful at all to see von der Goltz coming, and all Finns were grateful to 
>see him going.

Mannerheim was essentially an agent for the British. He didn't give
flying shit about Finland. Mannerheim was an expert at arranging
defeats for the Finnish forces.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:46 EDT 2009
Article: 2006889 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:28:25 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:3galt49qgdd7t0b16hvmsnkneond1bvqld@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Well your general point has merit.  People should mind their own
>>>business and not make war.  They should not be violent in word or
>>>deed.  Ambition unfortunately is one of the things that make the world
>>>go round.  They should practice the commandment:  'Thou shalt not
>>>covet they neighbour's stuff'.
>>>Remember that Germany was forced into war.  The treaty of Versailles
>>>was a very violent 'treaty.'  They invaded the Soviet Union because
>>>they knew that the SU was going to invade them.  In hindsight 'they'
>>>should have waited for the Soviets.
>>
>> I'm not so sure about that. Doing nothing would have meant that there
>> would be fighting and carnage on German soil already in 1941 rather
>> than late 1944 as was actually the case.
>>
>> If one must have a field campaign, it is usually a good idea to have
>> it somewhere else.
>
>And the result was that Germany fought the last year of war on German soil 
>with minimal resources and a beaten army. Half of the country fell under 
>boshevik dictatorship. I can hardly imagine a worse strategy.

Being outnumbered by at least 20:1 somewhat limits your freedom of
action. The army was not "beaten", just badly outnumbered. As for
resources, those were minimal from day one, but the German forces
managed to maintain themselves for several years despite that
disadvantage. 

The fact that half of Germany and all of eastern Europe fell under
Bolshevik influence is the consequence of Anglo-American stupidity,
not of any action by German officials.
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:47 EDT 2009
Article: 2006891 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 15:01:46 -0700 (PDT), "Jew - Defender & Nazi -
Killer"  wrote:

>On 8 apr, 23:31, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Is there something wrong trying to find out the truth. Therefore I ask you
>> do you know what truth is.
>> KK
>>
>> "Jew - Defender & Nazi - Killer"  wrote in messagenews:6cf0e22c-da82-4c83-ac0f-5620b1ff3b26@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 8 apr, 14:18, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> >> Are you real who you claim you are.
>> >> kk
>>
>> >>  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:ac94efa8-8700-4f91-b094-436fd6b99fa6@z15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > Dear group,
>>
>> >> > For years I have been youth leader for the NVU. The NVU is an ultra
>> >> > rightwing party which commits itself (although we don't officially say
>> >> > so on our website), to the destruction of the Jews:www.nvu.info
>>
>> >> > I now declare that I cannot defend anymore the horrible crimes Nazi-
>> >> > Germany has committed in World War 2. I also cannot defend anymore the
>> >> > role I have played so far in promoting the views of Nazi, Neonazi's
>> >> > and anti-semits in general.
>>
>> >> > I deeply regret what I have done and I have decided to leave the NVU
>> >> > for good and become an active member in fighting anti-semitism and
>> >> > their adherents.
>>
>> >> > Ivo Pastoor
>>
>> > Truthseeker,
>>
>> > Are you who you claim to be?
>
>"do you know what truth is."
>
>When it comes to jews and nazi's all I can say is that at least I have
>a better understanding of the truth than you.

You're entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you would be gracious enough
to allow others their opinions without attack and harassment by folks
such as you.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:47 EDT 2009
Article: 2006893 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:21:20 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:HuidnXmx19rzu0DUnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>Is there something wrong trying to find out the truth. Therefore I ask you
>>>do you know what truth is.
>>
>> Do you?
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
>> with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>> were lying.
>Its been on this news group here go and look for it.
>Kurt Knoll.

Poor Kenny is an airhead with a very low level of education. He is not
here to discuss anything. He is here to disrupt and harass.

>
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> "this mite hold with the uneducated fools but any man
>> with brains will see it full of holes" ("Irving Supporter,"
>> a Leading Revisionist Scholar)
>>                   http://www.nizkor.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:47 EDT 2009
Article: 2006896 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:41:36 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>
>
>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>
>Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their own 
>reasons.

You're most probably the liar, Patrick, since why else would you run
around hysterically accusing everybody else of lying? The accusations
of lying are a smoke-screen to cover your own actions.

Your use of dishonest and misleading labels such as "liar" and
"denier" speaks volumes about your lack of sincerity. The use of
loaded terms is an old trick used by propagandists for centuries.

>
>> You can find them in jail.
>
>Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>
>Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>
>He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he 
>actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was 
>materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a constitutional 
>right to lie.
>
>A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>
>
>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>> media construct.
>
>No, they are just not as important as they think.
>
>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>
>You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>
>> And there's
>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>
>I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>
>-pk
>
>
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:48 EDT 2009
Article: 2006897 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:03:29 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a 
>holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and corrupt that 
>your clan is.

Amen, Amen, Amen.


>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Topaz"  wrote in message 
>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>
>> 
>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>
>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their own 
>> reasons.
>>
>>> You can find them in jail.
>>
>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>
>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>>
>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he 
>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was 
>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a 
>> constitutional right to lie.
>>
>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>
>>
>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>> media construct.
>>
>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>
>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>
>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>
>>> And there's
>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>
>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>>
>> -pk
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:48 EDT 2009
Article: 2006898 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:52:14 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a 
>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and corrupt 
>> that your clan is.
>
>Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong material 
>he admitted was false.

We have only your word for that, and your word isn't worth much.

>
>You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>
>-pk
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message 
>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>> 
>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>
>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their 
>>> own reasons.
>>>
>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>
>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>
>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>>>
>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he 
>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was 
>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a 
>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>
>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>> media construct.
>>>
>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>
>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>
>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>
>>>> And there's
>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>
>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:48 EDT 2009
Article: 2006899 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$t™ Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>
>http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>
>The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the 
>number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost after 
>World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>
>"Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in 
>Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released in 
>advance.
>
>"The Jews always say: ’Even if one Jew died that is a crime.’ But of course 
>it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million people or for 
>340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>
>Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Western 
>Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is 
>Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All these 
>cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our rights over 
>them."

The NPD may be right-wing, but loaded terms such as "neo-Nazi" make
the article tendentious and suspect.

Voigt speaks the truth when he says that Königsberg, Danzig, and
Breslau were German cities since their founding, and neither Russians
nor Poles have any entitlement to them. While there is no prospect of
recovering them, it does not follow that the theft should be
"accepted" as "legitimate". It wasn't legitimate when it was done, and
it doesn't become legitimate as time passes. In AD 3009, Polish and
German claims to Breslau would be about equal, according to
international law, assuming that Poland still holds the city a
thousand years into the future.




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:49 EDT 2009
Article: 2006901 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$t™ Toll, Demands Return of German Land
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>
>http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>
>The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the 
>number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost after 
>World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>
>"Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in 
>Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released in 
>advance.
>
>"The Jews always say: ’Even if one Jew died that is a crime.’ But of course 
>it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million people or for 
>340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>
>Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania,

Actually, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern still is part of Germany. It is
eastern Pomeria, Hinterpommern, that was seized by the Polish
Communists in 1945.


> Western 
>Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is 
>Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All these 
>cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our rights over 
>them."


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:49 EDT 2009
Article: 2006906 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:44:13 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Heinrich"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>
>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>
>.
>>
>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Western 
>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is 
>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All 
>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our rights 
>> over them."
>>
>And Warthegau, the General Gouvernement, Sudetenland, the Crimea and the 
>Holy Roman Empire, Northern Africa and Namibia. Moon. Missouri and Oregon 
>and Xanadu. Troy.
>
>Topi 
>
You're being silly Topi. You obviously support ethnic cleansing and
mass murder by Communists, so what is your hangup about similar
actions by Nazis?

Incidentally, the official name of the Holy Roman Empire was Heiliges
Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation (Holy Roman Empire of the German
Nation). That was the 1st Empire and what was founded in 1871 was the
2nd Empire. Legally, there never was a third, although popular jargon
applies that name to the NS period in Germany 1933 - 1945. 

Legally, the Federal Republic of Germany is the TRUSTEE of the 2nd
Empire and acts on its behalf until such time as the control
institutions in the form of the Reichstag, Reichsrat, and
Reichsgericht are reactivated. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:49 EDT 2009
Article: 2006908 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:24:42 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>
>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>
>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the 
>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost 
>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>
>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in 
>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released 
>> in advance.
>
>Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number, which 
>isn't supported by facts.

Actually, Voigt's numbers for Auschwitz are probably gross
exaggerations since they contradict the camp records released by the
USSR a few years ago by a factor of 5. Unless you come up with a
really convincing argument as to why the German authorities would
spend time and effort to keep false records for themselves, I will
continue to regard the camp records as authoritative. Keeping false
records for yourself makes no sense.

>
>>
>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of 
>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million people 
>> or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>
>One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never - 
>based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>
>If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, which 
>is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time to show 
>his work.
>
>
>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Western 
>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is 
>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All 
>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our rights 
>> over them."
>
>He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to take 
>the property of others.
>
>-pk
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2006909 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:23:19 -0500, Alexander 
wrote:

>Patrick Keenan wrote:
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>
>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>
>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the 
>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost 
>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>
>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in 
>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released 
>>> in advance.
>> 
>> Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number, which 
>> isn't supported by facts.
>> 
>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of 
>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million people 
>>> or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>> 
>> One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never - 
>> based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>> 
>> If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, which 
>> is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time to show 
>> his work.
>> 
>> 
>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Western 
>>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is 
>>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All 
>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our rights 
>>> over them."
>> 
>> He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to take 
>> the property of others.\

It was/is the Russian and Polish Communists who are the thieves. All
Voigt was doing was naming theft a theft, even if it hurts the
feelings of the thieves.

>
>That is exactly what we have all said of the Jews and horses asses like 
>you that back their murderous land grabs.
>> 
>> -pk
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2006910 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:42:13 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Alexander"  wrote in message 
>news:745106F1209s8U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>>
>>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the 
>>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost 
>>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>>
>>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in 
>>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released 
>>>> in advance.
>>>
>>> Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number, 
>>> which isn't supported by facts.
>>>
>>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of 
>>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million 
>>>> people or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>>>
>>> One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never - 
>>> based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>>>
>>> If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, 
>>> which is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the 
>>> time to show his work.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, 
>>>> Western Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it 
>>>> is Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All 
>>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our 
>>>> rights over them."
>>>
>>> He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to take 
>>> the property of others.\
>>
>> That is exactly what we have all said of the Jews and horses asses like 
>> you that back their murderous land grabs.
>
>Again:  If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually 
>killed*, which  is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be 
>the time to show
>his work.

The survivors didn't get much money. It was the Israeli Zionists and
other Jewish political organizations which are the big beneficiaries
of this extortion racket.

If somebody can reasonably PROVE that they suffered under the NS
regime, then compensation is reasonable. I just object to throwing
money at Zionists who use it to buy arms to murder more children in
the Middle East.

>
>-pk
>
>
>
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2007015 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:44:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:qu0st4t8s8aq2rlhtru0febkp3p4pe9ogk@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:33:55 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article ,
>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >You obviously do not have to believe anything I say, although you and
>>>> >I both know that I have no "assignment" here.  Irving's problems
>>>> >though were not in an allied court.  You should read up on the lawsuit
>>>> >he lost.
>>>>
>>>> A British court is not an impartial institution since it is part of a
>>>> system that has a vested interest in the allied version of WW1 and
>>>> WW2.
>>>
>>>The issue at stake was not the allied or any other version of WW I and WW
>>>II. It was whether Deborah Lipstadt had, as alleged by David Irving,
>>>libeled David Irving when she defamed him, justifying her defamatory
>>>claims with examples, as a dishonest historian in her book *Denying the
>>>Holocaust. The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory*.
>>>
>>>The outcome of the trial was essentially the following:
>>>
>>>1. David Irving informed the court that although he had held more extreme
>>>views when Deborah Lipstadt had published her book in 1993, as of the
>>>trial, in spring 2000, he did not deny that the Nazis systematically
>>>killed millions of European Jews, but he did question whether this killing
>>>was a matter of state policy, whether Hitler was initially aware of the
>>>killing or, when he found out about it, of its extent, and whether gas
>>>chambers, the existence and homicidal use of which David Irving did not
>>>deny, were used to the extent claimed in the standard literature.
>>>
>>>2. David Irving was unable to demonstrate ti the court that any of the
>>>critical claims Lipstadt had made about his methodology and writings were
>>>untrue or malicious and thus either unjustified or libelous.
>>>
>>>3. David Irving's two expert witnesses informed the court that they were
>>>in general agreement with Deborah Lipstadt's criticism of Irving's
>>>unprofessionalism.
>>>
>>>4. Deborah Lipstadt's defense team was able to produce dozens more
>>>examples, some of them from writings that had nothing to do with
>>>Holocaust-related issues,  of David Irving's dishonesty as a historian,
>>>thus further supporting her criticism of his lack of professional ethics.
>>>
>>>Since it was a libel trial, and David Irving was unable to demonstrate to
>>>the court that even a single critical claim made by Deborah Lipstadt about
>>>his dishonesty as a historian was both demonstrably untrue and malicious,
>>>he lost that case. Justified professional criticism is, by its very
>>>definition, defamatory, but not libelous.
>>>
>>>This has nothing to do with the court's "vested interest" in upholding a
>>>certain version of historical events. David Irving's professional
>>>practices and writings were subjected to demonstrably true and justified
>>>professional criticism. He reacted by suing his critic for libel, in the
>>>hope of silencing her and preventing such criticism from becoming known to
>>>a wider audience. Even pleading his own case in court, Daviud Irving was
>>>unable to demonstrate that anything written about him by Deborah Lipstadt
>>>had been libelous, while Deborah Lipstadt's team succeeded in
>>>demonstrating to the court that the few examples discussed in her book
>>>were merely a small sample of a much longer and frequent pattern of
>>>systematic professional misconduct, an assessment with which David
>>>Irving's own expert witnesses had no difficulty agreeing.
>>>
>>>If you make yoourself guilty of easily verified professional misconduct
>>>and someone blows the whistle on you, you have only yourself to blame if
>>>you sue the whistleblower for libel, hoping to silence your critic, and
>>>lose.
>>>
>>>Judge Charles Gray had no other alternative than rule that David Irving
>>>had not been libeled, for which reason Irving, by definition, demonstrated
>>>himself to be a dishonest historian, just as Deborah Lipstadt had claimed.
>>
>> It was a political judgement made by a politically motivated court.
>
>No, it was a legal decision made in a court biased towards the person who 
>brought the action - Irving.

It is really tough to win a libel action in Britain. It would have
been easier in Canada because here the law actually DOES side with the
plaintiff, but not in Britain.

>
>Lipstadt's lawyers showed that her evaluation of Irving was justified based 
>on Irving's own writings.
>
>Irving completely and utterly failed to counter this.   He didn't appear to 
>even know how to try to explain his own words.
>
>There was absolutely no need for politics.   The facts were more than 
>sufficient.
>
>> There are no surprises there.
>
>And it isn't a surprise that you must pretend that this is anything other 
>than Irving going to court with a very, very weak case.
>
>He tried to bully people who were exercising their rights to speech.   His 
>own words showed that Lipstadt's evaluation was correct.
>
>If you *want* to apply a political cast to this, look at it this way:   The 
>Court supported Ms. Lipstadt's rights to free speech.
>
>You are one of those guys who likes to pretend you're in favour of free 
>speech, aren't you?
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2007017 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:04:43 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:941st4hebrqtul5e9bg39b30lhne10o7k8@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:26:57 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , "Truthseeker"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power they 
>>>> do
>>>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. How
>>>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how 
>>>> to
>>>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion 
>>>> or
>>>> implosion.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>David Irving made a career of writing dishonest history
>>
>> Irving had written all sorts of history books without a single peep of
>> complaint,
>
>Sorry, but this is false.
>
>Irving had been sued for libel previously, in 1968 by Captain K E Broome. 
>Irving lost then, too.

LOL

I was just finishing my education then, before I started working, so I
have never heard of Mr. Broome or his complaint.

I assume that a Google search will cause Mr. Broome to surface, or is
he one of your inventions?

>
>Being taken to court for libel could very well be interpreted as a "peep of 
>complaint", so your premise is false.
>
>Again.
>
>> until he made the mistake to stepping on the toes of the
>> holocaustT industry. He suddenly became an historical hack
>
>It wasn't sudden.
>
>> and was subjected to a world-wide campaign of vilification and character
>> assassination.
>
>Actually it was honest evaluation of his tactics, that Holocaust deniers and 
>"revisionists" mounted a campaign against.
>
>His real problems came when he decided that other people shouldn't have a 
>right to free speech, and chose the wrong target to bully.
>
>He lost twice before a total of four judges, and he lost because Lipstadt 
>wrote the truth about him.
>
>
>-pk
>
>>
>>
>>> and then tried to
>>>use the British court system to prevent word of this from spreading when
>>>it was pointed out by a professional historian. He failed to do so, and
>>>now the entire world knows of his dishonesty. End of story.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2007018 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:54:00 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:dd1st4tt5u3p6qk0d29ov0oil1u2kgkdnj@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:43:24 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4yMCl.21910$PH1.12470@edtnps82>, "Truthseeker"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power they 
>>>> do
>>>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. How
>>>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how 
>>>> to
>>>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion 
>>>> or
>>>> implosion.
>>>
>>>Knowing that difference has nothing in the least to do with the
>>>determination of whether an allegation of systematic professional
>>>misconduct is libelous or justified.
>>
>> You are putting far too much weight on a court judgement.
>
>Actually, it's more than one judgement, as you should know by now.
>
>Irving attempted to appeal the High Court libel loss, and a panel of three 
>justices agreed with Mr. Justice Grey's ruling:
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1334697/Irving-loses-appeal.html
>"Giving judgment, Lord Justice Pill said that Mr Justice Gray was "fully 
>entitled" to hold that the defence of justification succeeded."
>
>So, Irving was judged twice by a total of four judges, and all of them found 
>that Lipstadt was justified in what she wrote about Irving.
>
>Irving lost, because what Lipstadt wrote about him was true.

That doesn't follow. What happened is that four British judges ruled
against Irving, but that doesn't translate into "truth" on the part of
Lipstadt. Dozens of judges in the past ruled that the earth was flat
or that so-and-so were witches, but we know for certain that the world
isn't flat and that witches don't exist, so the judges were clearly
wrong. They are just people with opinions.

>
>Get over it.
>
>
>> Oscar Wilde
>> lost his libel case against Lord Douglas also, not because Lord
>> Douglas was innocent or correct, but because Lord Douglas had more
>> pull with the court because of his social position and power.
>
>So, you are saying that Wilde was *not* a homosexual, or that his 
>homosexuality wasn't commonly known or had been witnessed by others?
>
>>
>> All kinds of Alice-in-Wonderland judgements come out of courts. In a
>> very real sense, courts are theatre and sometimes they constitute
>> theatre-of-the-absurd.
>
>And often times, they do not.
>
>Irving lost, because Lipstadt wrote the truth about him.
>
>Get over it.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2007020 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:42:10 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:g52st41vouvg7pm6j3qat66kuhsojk7jkn@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:30:39 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> How does your model explain the Soviet invasion to overturn Finnish
>> independence? Obviously Lenin did not recognize Finnish independence.
>>
>>
>> Mannerheim was essentially an agent for the British. He didn't give
>> flying shit about Finland. Mannerheim was an expert at arranging
>> defeats for the Finnish forces.
>>
> Lenin and Trotsky and all the others who were in power then recocnized 
>Finlands independence.

Lenin expected the Red Finns to win, but Germans inferfered with that
projection.

> The border lines were recocnized in 1920 in Tarto, 
>Estonia. Mannerheim was a former Czars general but of Finnish origin.

Actually the guy was Swedish, Topi.

> He was 
>an expert in arraging defeats to attacking bolshevik forces during the 
>Winter War 1939-1940. That was Stalins war connected to Molotov-Ribbentrop 
>treaty. They tried to take our land but it wasn´t that easy. It is not easy 
>today.
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2007022 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:24:22 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>> Did he really where did he say this.
>
>In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence was 
>that he had a constitutional right to lie.

Nonsense.

There is no such section in the Canadian constitution. It provides for
free expression of opinion.

>
>You could actually try paying attention.
>
>-pk
>
>
>> kk
>>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a 
>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and corrupt 
>>>> that your clan is.
>>>
>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong 
>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>
>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their 
>>>>> own reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>>>>>
>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he 
>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was 
>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a 
>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2007025 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:35:19 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:m14st4l4munbv42cno649dvtm3t0n45a03@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:52:14 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a
>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and corrupt
>>>> that your clan is.
>>>
>>>Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong 
>>>material
>>>he admitted was false.
>>
>> We have only your word for that, and your word isn't worth much.
>
>Actually you don't have my words at all.    Read the transcripts.
>
>There you will find that what we have are Zundel's words, in the form of his 
>appeal grounds, which asserted a constitutional right to lie.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains a fair bit of material,
but the "right to lie" isn't among them. You are fabricating this out
of thin air or putting your own airheaded interpretation on something
that means something else entirely.

>
>He asserted a right to lie since he could not convince rational people that 
>he actually believed that the Holocaust did not occur, more or less as 
>understood.
>
>A person who believes that he is speaking the truth does not have to assert 
>a right to lie, and an honest person who believed they were speaking the 
>truth would be offended by the suggestion of using such a defence.
>
>Clearly, Zundel was neither honest or speaking the truth.
>
>He could not successfully use the simple defence for the False News charge: 
>that he actually believed what he was saying.   *Two* juries found that 
>Zundel DOES believe that the Holocaust occurred, more or less as is commonly 
>understood, and that he was publishing material he knew to be false.
>
>Since his defence was not credible, he had to go for the truth, which is 
>that he knew the material was false.
>
>And it's also known that he made a fortune publishing this material, some of 
>which was sold to countries where he knew it was illegal (Germany).   He 
>knew that as a German citizen he was breaking German law.
>
>Read the transcripts and the judgements.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their
>>>>> own reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>>>>>
>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he
>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was
>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2007026 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:38:02 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:am3st49sl010ebihsan4e0p8uurlestm25@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:41:36 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>
>>>Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for their own
>>>reasons.
>>
>> You're most probably the liar, Patrick, since why else would you run
>> around hysterically accusing everybody else of lying? The accusations
>> of lying are a smoke-screen to cover your own actions.
>
>If you can present something that materially challenges what I have written, 
>now is the time to do so.

Most of what you write is "dreck", Patrick. You just generally make
outrageous assertions, all without evidence let alone proof. Besides,
"proof" only exists in the realm of mathematics. The real world
involves a balance of probabilities, and what you claim generally has
a very low probability.

>
>
>> Your use of dishonest and misleading labels such as "liar" and
>> "denier" speaks volumes about your lack of sincerity. The use of
>> loaded terms is an old trick used by propagandists for centuries.
>
>And yet you can not address the clear reasons I give for the things I say in 
>the very post you reply to.
>
>What a surprise.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>
>>>Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>
>>>Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually occurred.
>>>
>>>He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he
>>>actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was
>>>materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a 
>>>constitutional
>>>right to lie.
>>>
>>>A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.  To
>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>> media construct.
>>>
>>>No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>
>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>
>>>You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>
>>>> And there's
>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>
>>>I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not happening.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2007028 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 16:32:13 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:2h6st45hdh0purf9qcbcs14ohue8ifs2r8@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:23:19 -0500, Alexander 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>> news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>>>
>>>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned 
>>>>> the
>>>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost
>>>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died 
>>>>> in
>>>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were 
>>>>> released
>>>>> in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number, 
>>>> which
>>>> isn't supported by facts.
>>>>
>>>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of
>>>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million 
>>>>> people
>>>>> or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>>>>
>>>> One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never -
>>>> based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>>>>
>>>> If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, 
>>>> which
>>>> is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time to 
>>>> show
>>>> his work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, 
>>>>> Western
>>>>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is
>>>>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All
>>>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our 
>>>>> rights
>>>>> over them."
>>>>
>>>> He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to 
>>>> take
>>>> the property of others.\
>>
>> It was/is the Russian and Polish Communists who are the thieves.
>
>One might note that Nazi foreign policy was pretty heavily based on the 
>organised theft of land, resources, and property.

That's what the British propaganda says, but then they have always
made outrageous statements with an absolute minimum of evidence.

>
>One might also note that Nazis regularly looted the countries they entered, 
>and many personally enriched themselves in this way.

Most of the countries that were occupied by Germany during WW2 didn't
have to pot to piss in, so consequently even if theft were the intent,
there would be nothing to steal.

>
>> All Voigt was doing was naming theft a theft, even if it hurts the
>> feelings of the thieves.
>
>Speaking of which, we are still finding art and other property stolen by 
>Nazi leaders.   Does naming that theft hurt your feelings?

While I have heard of the NS leaders stealing some art, it was on a
dramatically smaller scale than the thievery of the Americans who sent
stuff home by the ship-load.

>
>And again:  The reparations payments are and have always been based on the 
>number of survivors, not on the number murdered.

They are not reparation payments. They are compensation for
individuals. That much I support, especially if evidence of
persecution is produced, but I am totally opposed to throwing money at
Israel and at some of the world's Zionist organizations.

>
>If you or Mr Voigt want to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, 
>which is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time 
>to show
> your work.

This blurb makes no sense. Survivors get compensation because of the
family members who died. Had there been no deaths, there would have
been no compensation either, much as it took the USA many decades to
make even token restitution to the Americans of Japanese ancestry that
had all their property confiscated based on sheer American racism.

>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>That is exactly what we have all said of the Jews and horses asses like
>>>you that back their murderous land grabs.
>>>>
>>>> -pk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2007030 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:19:51 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:796st41cb1kkhfdqv4benngbr0vldbmkmt@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:24:42 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>>
>>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned the
>>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost
>>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>>
>>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died in
>>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were released
>>>> in advance.
>>>
>>>Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number, 
>>>which
>>>isn't supported by facts.
>>
>> Actually, Voigt's numbers for Auschwitz are probably gross
>> exaggerations since they contradict the camp records released by the
>> USSR a few years ago by a factor of 5. Unless you come up with a
>> really convincing argument as to why the German authorities would
>> spend time and effort to keep false records for themselves,
>
>They aren't false records they kept for themselves.
>
>And they are not complete records of everything that went on in the camps.

Incomplete records are automatically false records. It simply isn't
the German way of doing business.

>
>I suspect you know perfectly well that these records are not what you 
>pretend that they are.
>
>
>> I will
>> continue to regard the camp records as authoritative. Keeping false
>> records for yourself makes no sense.
>
>As far as making sense, do you think that invading Russia in late summer and 
>refusing to equip your troops with winter gear makes sense?

LOL

I guess they should have hired a mental giant like you to be a field
marshall, and everything would have worked out differently. 

The fact is that they had not expected to still be in the area once
winter hit. Material of all sorts had been in short supply since day
one, which is one reason I take allied claims that Germany launched
this war with a large grain of salt. They would have been prepared for
a long, big war by 1944, but not in 1939. That is exactly why Britain
and France picked 1939 to arrange for their war.


>
>The records you refer to only account for *registered prisoners*, but you 
>already know that, don't you?

I know all about the claims that they supposedly only bothered to
record the occasional prisoner, a claim that makes as much sense as
the Royal Bank of Canada only bothering to record the occasional
deposit or withdrawal. That approach would make ALL the records
worthless, and they wouldn't have bothered to keep any records at all,
because the ones they would have would be totally worthless.

>
>Those who arrived at Auschwitz and were not selected for labour were not 
>registered as prisoners, were not recorded in these books, were killed more 
>or less immediately, and do not appear on camp records otherwise.
>
>They appear on other non-camp records, such as the transport records.
>
>The Soviet records aren't false, they are accurate for what they are; but 
>they just aren't a record of what you pretend they are a record of.
>
>Now, if you wanted to do something towards lowering the reparations 
>payments, you'd be trying to get the death toll numbers higher, as the 
>reparations were based on the number of *survivors*, not on the number of 
>*deaths*.
>
>What you are arguing, without apparently realizing it,  is that the 
>reparations payments to Israel are too low.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of
>>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million 
>>>> people
>>>> or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>>>
>>>One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never -
>>>based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>>>
>>>If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*, 
>>>which
>>>is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time to 
>>>show
>>>his work.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, 
>>>> Western
>>>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is
>>>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All
>>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our 
>>>> rights
>>>> over them."
>>>
>>>He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to take
>>>the property of others.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2007031 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 19:47:42 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:km5st4t3i39p7qgs8428r8lvdr2mlh8h8m@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:44:13 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>> You're being silly Topi. You obviously support ethnic cleansing and
>> mass murder by Communists, so what is your hangup about similar
>> actions by Nazis?
>>
>> Incidentally, the official name of the Holy Roman Empire was Heiliges
>> Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation (Holy Roman Empire of the German
>> Nation). That was the 1st Empire and what was founded in 1871 was the
>> 2nd Empire. Legally, there never was a third, although popular jargon
>> applies that name to the NS period in Germany 1933 - 1945.
>>
>> Legally, the Federal Republic of Germany is the TRUSTEE of the 2nd
>> Empire and acts on its behalf until such time as the control
>> institutions in the form of the Reichstag, Reichsrat, and
>> Reichsgericht are reactivated.
>
>And Judenrats. That could be as difficult as to control the Moon.

Those were not part of the administrative structure of any German
state in the last two thousand years.

>
>I may be silly but I never have supported ethnic cleansings and mass murders 
>either by communists or  by natzis. That is wrong !

You seem to support Russian/Polish ethnic cleansing in the eastern
provinces and the multi-million person death toll that went with it.
Obviously the loss of Danzig, Breslau, and Stettin are fait accompli,
but that hardly makes it right or somehow generates Russian/Polish
entitlements to those areas. The ethnic cleansing of eastern Germany
was and remains one of the greatest crimes in the history of humanity.

>
>Have a peaceful Easter, Johannes.
>Toivo (Topi) Kottarainen 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2007032 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:53:25 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:f54st4lh33mbst37uqsl296odpvn0am6dg@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Voigt speaks the truth when he says that Königsberg, Danzig, and
>> Breslau were German cities since their founding, and neither Russians
>> nor Poles have any entitlement to them. While there is no prospect of
>> recovering them, it does not follow that the theft should be
>> "accepted" as "legitimate". It wasn't legitimate when it was done, and
>> it doesn't become legitimate as time passes. In AD 3009, Polish and
>> German claims to Breslau would be about equal, according to
>> international law, assuming that Poland still holds the city a
>> thousand years into the future.
>>
>>
>Natonalism was an idea of late AD 1800. I can quarantee You that there will 
>not be such thing in AD 3009. Nowadays there is EU and nowadays all those 
>who wish to live in Wroclaw or in Gdansk can do so with same taxation and 
>same civil rights not dependend of their origin. There is no need for old 
>time nationalism in Europe anymore and no need for nationalist political 
>parties.

You should try to tell that to the chauvinistic Poles and Czechs. You
are terribly naive, Topi.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2007033 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:23:06 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>news:49de361f$0$26329$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>> viestissä:f54st4lh33mbst37uqsl296odpvn0am6dg@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Voigt speaks the truth when he says that Königsberg, Danzig, and
>>> Breslau were German cities since their founding, and neither Russians
>>> nor Poles have any entitlement to them. While there is no prospect of
>>> recovering them, it does not follow that the theft should be
>>> "accepted" as "legitimate". It wasn't legitimate when it was done, and
>>> it doesn't become legitimate as time passes. In AD 3009, Polish and
>>> German claims to Breslau would be about equal, according to
>>> international law, assuming that Poland still holds the city a
>>> thousand years into the future.
>>>
>>>
>> Natonalism was an idea of late AD 1800. I can quarantee You that there 
>> will not be such thing in AD 3009. Nowadays there is EU and nowadays all 
>> those who wish to live in Wroclaw or in Gdansk can do so with same 
>> taxation and same civil rights not dependend of their origin. There is no 
>> need for old time nationalism in Europe anymore and no need for 
>> nationalist political parties.
>>
>> Topi
>
>We still have very clear examples of just what those nationalist policies 
>lead to, in the trials for the recent wars in Serbia and Kosovo and the 
>former Yugoslavia, and the Bosnian genocide.

Yugoslavia was another Versailles creation, just like Czechoslovakia
and Poland. Each of these Versailles states created humanitarian
catastrophes. They were OBVIOUS mistakes even on the day they were
created, but that seems to be par for the course with British/allied
state making. Iraq/Kuwait is also a British creation. The Middle East
fiasco is a British creation via the Balfour declaration where, in
typical British fashion, they generously gave away land that didn't
belong to them.


>
>This is, ultimately, the kind of thing that Heinrich is promoting, though he 
>tries to deny that, too.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2007034 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 22:16:02 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:R_ednRbbGoNgoEPUnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>> news:49de361f$0$26329$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>>> viestissä:f54st4lh33mbst37uqsl296odpvn0am6dg@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
>>>> wrote:
>>
>> We still have very clear examples of just what those nationalist policies 
>> lead to, in the trials for the recent wars in Serbia and Kosovo and the 
>> former Yugoslavia, and the Bosnian genocide.
>>
>> This is, ultimately, the kind of thing that Heinrich is promoting, though 
>> he tries to deny that, too.
>>
>> -pk
>
>There are people in Finland that want the regions stolen fom us during the 
>wars annexed back to Finland.. The Carelian Peninsula, Salla district, 
>Petchenga (Petsamo) and the islands in the Gulf of Finland. They are a 
>minimal group.
>
>We know as a Nation that that was wrong.

That is exactly how millions of Germans feel about Russian, Polish and
Czech seizures in the east. There is the additional dimension of
ethnic cleansing in which 14 million people were driven from their
homes and only 10 million survived. That is a hell of a lot harder to
forgive than just the loss of some territory.

In my opinion, the Poles got their pound of flesh in 1945, and no Pole
should ever be allowed to cross into Germany and no Polish goods or
commerce should be able to go through Germany. The same goes for the
Czechs. Both populations should be allowed to live in Uganda-like
poverty and anguish from now until the end of the world. Personally,
if I notice that something comes from either place, it goes back onto
the store shelf. When I encounter a Pole or Czech it takes huge
self-control to avoid the urge to spit in their face.




> But the majority of us thinks that 
>let it be so. Russians live there now and it´s their home.
>
>We live now in peace with all our neigbours, there are no foreingn troops on 
>our soil and we do our own decisions.We are waiting for the day that the 
>border to Russia be as open as the borders to Norway and Sweden.
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2007037 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Plan To Exterminate the German Race Via Mass Sterilisation
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:08:24 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>Germany Must Perish! is the title of a 104-page book written by Theodore N. 
>Kaufman (Jew) and self-published in 1941, which advocates the sterilization 
>of all Germans, and the territorial dismemberment of Germany. Kaufman 
>founded the Argyle Press of Newark, New Jersey, USA, in order to 
>self-publish his sentiments

Perhaps Hitler read Kaufman's absurd diatribe and decided to head them
off at the pass? Naturally, racists such as McVay/McFee and the whole
tribe will think that Kaufman's rantings are great.

>
>Extract from the book.
>
>"There remains then but one mode of ridding the world forever of Germanism - 
>and that is to stem the source from which issue those war-lusted souls, by 
>preventing the people of Germany from ever again reproducing their kind. 
>This modern method, known to science as Eugenic Sterilization, is at once 
>practical, humane and thorough. Sterilization has become a byword of 
>science, as the best means of ridding the human race of its misfits: the 
>degenerate, the insane, the hereditary criminal.
>
>When one realizes that such health measures as vaccination and serum 
>treatments are considered as direct benefits to the community, certainly 
>sterilization of the German people cannot but be considered a great health 
>measure promoted by humanity to immunize itself forever against the virus of 
>Germanism. The population of Germany, excluding conquered and annexed 
>territories, is about 70,000,000, almost equally divided between male and 
>female. To achieve the purpose of German extinction it would be necessary to 
>only sterilize some 48,000,000 - a figure which excludes, because of their 
>limited power to procreate, males over 60 years of age, and females over 45.
>
>Concerning the males subject to sterilization the army groups, as organized 
>units, would be the easiest and quickest to deal with. Taking 20,000 
>surgeons as an arbitrary number and on the assumption that each will perform 
>a minimum of 25 operations daily, it would take no more than one month, at 
>the maximum, to complete their sterilization. Naturally the more doctors 
>available, and many more than the 20,000 we mention would be available 
>considering all the nations to be drawn upon, the less time would be 
>required. The balance of the male civilian population of Germany could be 
>treated within three months. Inasmuch as the sterilization of women needs 
>somewhat more time, it may be computed that the entire female population of 
>Germany could be sterilized within a period of three years or less. Complete 
>sterilization of both sexes, and not only one, is to be considered necessary 
>in view of the present German doctrine that so much as one drop of true 
>German blood constitutes a German.
>
>Of course, after compete sterilization there will cease to be a birth rate 
>in Germany. At the normal death rate of 2% per annum, German life will 
>diminish at the rate of 1,500,000 yearly. Accordingly in the span of two 
>generations, that which cost millions of lives and centuries of useless 
>effort, namely, the elimination of Germanism and its carriers, will have 
>been accomplished fact."
>
>The Jew Kaufmann has thought out every last detail of his sterilization 
>plan. He makes the following proposals:
>
>1. The German army will be immediately and totally disarmed, and all weapons 
>will be removed from German territory.
>
>2. All German facilities and industrial plans will be placed under strong 
>guard. All German workers will be replaced by workers from Allied nations.
>
>3. The German army will be divided into groups that will be segregated in 
>strictly separated regions and sterilized.
>
>4. The civilian population, women as well as men, will be organized within 
>given areas and also sterilized.
>
>5. After sterilization, the German army will be divided into work brigades 
>and used to rebuild destroyed cities.
>
>6. Germany will be partitioned and its territory given to neighboring 
>states.
>
>7. Germans will not be allowed to travel beyond the established borders 
>until the completion of sterilization.
>
>8. The German population of the partitions will be forced to learn the 
>language of their new country. Within a year, the publication of all books, 
>newspapers and announcements in German will be prohibited, as will 
>broadcasts in German and the teaching of the German language.
>
>9. The only Germans exempt from sterilization will be those with relatives 
>in the victorious nations who will undertake financial responsibility for 
>their emigration and support, as well as moral responsibility for their 
>actions.
>
>LINKS FOR FURTHER READING
>http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ds15.htm


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2007113 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:30:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:k9ust4t4076egnp6aratma1qmej01b81p4@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:44:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:qu0st4t8s8aq2rlhtru0febkp3p4pe9ogk@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:33:55 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >You obviously do not have to believe anything I say, although you and
>>>>>> >I both know that I have no "assignment" here.  Irving's problems
>>>>>> >though were not in an allied court.  You should read up on the 
>>>>>> >lawsuit
>>>>>> >he lost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A British court is not an impartial institution since it is part of a
>>>>>> system that has a vested interest in the allied version of WW1 and
>>>>>> WW2.
>>>>>
>>>>>The issue at stake was not the allied or any other version of WW I and 
>>>>>WW
>>>>>II. It was whether Deborah Lipstadt had, as alleged by David Irving,
>>>>>libeled David Irving when she defamed him, justifying her defamatory
>>>>>claims with examples, as a dishonest historian in her book *Denying the
>>>>>Holocaust. The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory*.
>>>>>
>>>>>The outcome of the trial was essentially the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>1. David Irving informed the court that although he had held more 
>>>>>extreme
>>>>>views when Deborah Lipstadt had published her book in 1993, as of the
>>>>>trial, in spring 2000, he did not deny that the Nazis systematically
>>>>>killed millions of European Jews, but he did question whether this 
>>>>>killing
>>>>>was a matter of state policy, whether Hitler was initially aware of the
>>>>>killing or, when he found out about it, of its extent, and whether gas
>>>>>chambers, the existence and homicidal use of which David Irving did not
>>>>>deny, were used to the extent claimed in the standard literature.
>>>>>
>>>>>2. David Irving was unable to demonstrate ti the court that any of the
>>>>>critical claims Lipstadt had made about his methodology and writings 
>>>>>were
>>>>>untrue or malicious and thus either unjustified or libelous.
>>>>>
>>>>>3. David Irving's two expert witnesses informed the court that they were
>>>>>in general agreement with Deborah Lipstadt's criticism of Irving's
>>>>>unprofessionalism.
>>>>>
>>>>>4. Deborah Lipstadt's defense team was able to produce dozens more
>>>>>examples, some of them from writings that had nothing to do with
>>>>>Holocaust-related issues,  of David Irving's dishonesty as a historian,
>>>>>thus further supporting her criticism of his lack of professional 
>>>>>ethics.
>>>>>
>>>>>Since it was a libel trial, and David Irving was unable to demonstrate 
>>>>>to
>>>>>the court that even a single critical claim made by Deborah Lipstadt 
>>>>>about
>>>>>his dishonesty as a historian was both demonstrably untrue and 
>>>>>malicious,
>>>>>he lost that case. Justified professional criticism is, by its very
>>>>>definition, defamatory, but not libelous.
>>>>>
>>>>>This has nothing to do with the court's "vested interest" in upholding a
>>>>>certain version of historical events. David Irving's professional
>>>>>practices and writings were subjected to demonstrably true and justified
>>>>>professional criticism. He reacted by suing his critic for libel, in the
>>>>>hope of silencing her and preventing such criticism from becoming known 
>>>>>to
>>>>>a wider audience. Even pleading his own case in court, Daviud Irving was
>>>>>unable to demonstrate that anything written about him by Deborah 
>>>>>Lipstadt
>>>>>had been libelous, while Deborah Lipstadt's team succeeded in
>>>>>demonstrating to the court that the few examples discussed in her book
>>>>>were merely a small sample of a much longer and frequent pattern of
>>>>>systematic professional misconduct, an assessment with which David
>>>>>Irving's own expert witnesses had no difficulty agreeing.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you make yoourself guilty of easily verified professional misconduct
>>>>>and someone blows the whistle on you, you have only yourself to blame if
>>>>>you sue the whistleblower for libel, hoping to silence your critic, and
>>>>>lose.
>>>>>
>>>>>Judge Charles Gray had no other alternative than rule that David Irving
>>>>>had not been libeled, for which reason Irving, by definition, 
>>>>>demonstrated
>>>>>himself to be a dishonest historian, just as Deborah Lipstadt had 
>>>>>claimed.
>>>>
>>>> It was a political judgement made by a politically motivated court.
>>>
>>>No, it was a legal decision made in a court biased towards the person who
>>>brought the action - Irving.
>>
>> It is really tough to win a libel action in Britain.
>
>Well, that would be true anywhere, when the defendant is speaking the truth 
>and can prove it with the plaintiff's own words.   But in the UK, it's a lot 
>easier than in North America.
>
>The absolute defence against a libel action is of course that there is a 
>statement of truth, and Lipstadt and Penguin were able to prove that 
>Lipstadt had written, and Penguin had published, the truth about Irving.
>
>> It would have been easier in Canada because here the law actually DOES 
>> side with the
>> plaintiff, but not in Britain.
>
>Sorry, but Irving chose to file in the UK specifically because the courts 
>are biased towards the plaintiff, in this case Irving.
>
>In Canada and the US,

Anytime you lump Canadian and American laws together, the chances are
very good that you are wrong. The American and Canadian legal systems
have very little in common.


> it is necessary for the plaintiff, in this case 
>Irving, to prove that he or she HAS BEEN defamed.
>
>In the UK, it's reversed.   It's the defendant who has to prove that they 
>HAVE NOT defamed the plaintiff.
>
>And this is what cause the legal expenses to be as high as they were:  In 
>order to show that they HAD NOT defamed Irving, Lipstadt and Penguin had to 
>produce a comprehensive and exhaustive defence that showed that Lipstadt had 
>written, and Penguin had published, the truth.
>
>Irving made the foolish choice to try to bully people who have the spine to 
>stand up for their statements.   He was not remotely able to show that he 
>had been defamed.
>
>And again, Irving was trying to suppress freedom of speech.    And again, 
>not a word from you on that issue.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Lipstadt's lawyers showed that her evaluation of Irving was justified 
>>>based
>>>on Irving's own writings.
>>>
>>>Irving completely and utterly failed to counter this.   He didn't appear 
>>>to
>>>even know how to try to explain his own words.
>>>
>>>There was absolutely no need for politics.   The facts were more than
>>>sufficient.
>>>
>>>> There are no surprises there.
>>>
>>>And it isn't a surprise that you must pretend that this is anything other
>>>than Irving going to court with a very, very weak case.
>>>
>>>He tried to bully people who were exercising their rights to speech.   His
>>>own words showed that Lipstadt's evaluation was correct.
>>>
>>>If you *want* to apply a political cast to this, look at it this way: 
>>>The
>>>Court supported Ms. Lipstadt's rights to free speech.
>>>
>>>You are one of those guys who likes to pretend you're in favour of free
>>>speech, aren't you?
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Eugene Holman
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2007114 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:01:00 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:04:43 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>
>
>> >Irving had been sued for libel previously, in 1968 by Captain K E Broome. 
>> >Irving lost then, too.
>> 
>> LOL
>> 
>> I was just finishing my education then, before I started working, so I
>> have never heard of Mr. Broome or his complaint.
>> 
>> I assume that a Google search will cause Mr. Broome to surface, or is
>> he one of your inventions?
>
>Why not check out David Irving's own website, http://www.fpp.co.uk? Irving
>has no difficulty admitting that he lost the libel suit initiated against
>him by Commander Jack Broome, although he rationalizes the loss by
>accusing the British court system of being biased against him.

He may have a point. After all, Britain does have a vested interest in
upholding its version of the "history" of WW2.

>
>Wikipedia summarizes the issue as following:
>
>Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving
>
>
>Also in 1967, he published two more works: The Virus House, an account of
>the German nuclear energy project, and The Destruction of Convoy PQ-17, in
>which he blamed the British escort group commander, Commander Jack Broome
>for the catastrophic losses of the Convoy PQ-17. Amid much publicity,
>Broome sued Irving for libel in October 1968, and in February 1970, after
>17 days of deliberation before London's High Court, Broome won. Irving was
>forced to pay £40,000 in damages, and the book was withdrawn from
>circulation.
>
>
>This was not the only instance in which David Irving found himself in the
>courtroom for his "real history". His methodology of historiography, or
>lack thereof, was well known before he became interested in the Holocaust.
>
>>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:56 EDT 2009
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On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:28:33 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:50:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sure they do. They prove that nazi windbags like yourself are high on
>>>glue and completely unable to support their nazi bullshit with facts.
>>>
>>>For instance, I supplied documented proof that Goebbels was a liar.
>>
>> You only proved you had your head up a Jews aft end.
>
>I provided documented evidence.
>You fall back on blaming everything on the Jews.
>
>I win by default.

Sorry Klaus, but all I've seen from you are puerile, elementary-school
style insults. Your stuff is not very convincing.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2007118 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Massengrab mit 4.500 Soldaten entdeckt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:45:19 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:8qust492al7p9n22m9f8leagm2o93h17nt@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 18:42:10 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>>>viestissä:g52st41vouvg7pm6j3qat66kuhsojk7jkn@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:30:39 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>
>> Lenin expected the Red Finns to win, but Germans inferfered with that
>> projection.
>>
>>> The border lines were recocnized in 1920 in Tarto,
>>>Estonia. Mannerheim was a former Czars general but of Finnish origin.
>>
>> Actually the guy was Swedish, Topi.
>>
>He expected socialism to win everywhere but the independence of Finland was 
>according to his policy.
>
>Finland is a bilingual country by history. C.G.E. Mannerheim was Finnish 
>altough his native language was swedish. We don´t make a difference in that 
>point. Other official languages in Finland nowadays are sami, romani and 
>sign language. Every one of those people are entitled to get education and 
>service by the authorities in their own language.

That's very egalitarian, if somewhat costly.

>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2007122 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:46:55 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ek6st4dpluknc9ulfqbkq6jvpfi6rl4vrk@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:42:13 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Alexander"  wrote in message
>>>news:745106F1209s8U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Patrick Keenan wrote:
>>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost
>>>>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were 
>>>>>> released
>>>>>> in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number,
>>>>> which isn't supported by facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of
>>>>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million
>>>>>> people or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party 
>>>>>> added.
>>>>>
>>>>> One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were 
>>>>> never -
>>>>> based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*,
>>>>> which is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the
>>>>> time to show his work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania,
>>>>>> Western Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it
>>>>>> is Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). 
>>>>>> "All
>>>>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our
>>>>>> rights over them."
>>>>>
>>>>> He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to 
>>>>> take
>>>>> the property of others.\
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly what we have all said of the Jews and horses asses like
>>>> you that back their murderous land grabs.
>>>
>>>Again:  If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually
>>>killed*, which  is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would 
>>>be
>>>the time to show
>>>his work.
>>
>> The survivors didn't get much money. It was the Israeli Zionists and
>> other Jewish political organizations which are the big beneficiaries
>> of this extortion racket.
>
>Apparently you don't understand the payments, but no, survivors individually 
>didn't get much money.
>
>It's hardly extortion.   The Bundestag, to its credit, understands and 
>accepts that it bears political and moral responsibility for the crimes 
>committed by the National Socialist government.

The Bundestag has absolutely no responsibility for crimes, real or
imaginary, that occurred before the Bundestag even existed during the
government of a political party that no longer exists. The Bundestag
simply caved in to allied threats and pressure. That is essentially
extortion.

>    Unlike some other 
>governments, it's not trying to pretend that those crimes did not occur.
>
>And the terms were not like the wholly unrealistic, and stupidly punitive, 
>reparations imposed at Versailles.
>
>> If somebody can reasonably PROVE that they suffered under the NS
>> regime, then compensation is reasonable.
>
>And lots of people can do exactly that, but lack the ability to work 
>individually through court systems.     Attempts to litigate individuially 
>might conceivably have the effect of converting a large portion of the 
>German economy into a law firm, and that's not really a good idea.
>
>> I just object to throwing money at Zionists who use it to buy arms to 
>> murder more children in
>> the Middle East.
>
>Which of course is not what that money is used for, but why let facts stand 
>in the way of a slogan?

Norman Finkelstein's principal complaint is exactly that the survivors
saw virtually none of the huge sums that were collected and redirected
by these so-called Jewish agencies. The whole structure is fraudulent,
and one can fairly say that the BRD has been swindled.

>
>It's interesting that you have nothing to say about any of the other parties 
>in that tragic conflict, though it is clear that there blame all the way 
>around.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2007124 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
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On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:28:46 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:d00tt4tuhfef2fhdg5v8te07sehpe0l4o2@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:19:51 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:796st41cb1kkhfdqv4benngbr0vldbmkmt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:24:42 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:743thhF10h8hdU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572234/Udo-Voigt-neo-Nazi-questions-Auschwitz-toll.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/western_europe/22421
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The head of the German neo-Nazi party NPD, Udo Voigt, has questioned 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> number of Holocaust deaths and demanded the return of German land lost
>>>>>> after World War II, in an interview to be broadcast on Monday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Six million cannot be right. At most, 340,000 people could have died 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Auschwitz," Voigt said in excerpts from the interview that were 
>>>>>> released
>>>>>> in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Though of course he carefully gives no justification for this number,
>>>>>which
>>>>>isn't supported by facts.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, Voigt's numbers for Auschwitz are probably gross
>>>> exaggerations since they contradict the camp records released by the
>>>> USSR a few years ago by a factor of 5. Unless you come up with a
>>>> really convincing argument as to why the German authorities would
>>>> spend time and effort to keep false records for themselves,
>>>
>>>They aren't false records they kept for themselves.
>>>
>>>And they are not complete records of everything that went on in the camps.
>>
>> Incomplete records are automatically false records.
>
>No, they are simply incomplete records.
>
>They only become false when someone like you pretends that they represent 
>something that they never represented.
>
>> It simply isn't
>> the German way of doing business.
>
>And failure to plan for well-known and predictable events like a Russian 
>winter IS the "German way of doing business"?
>
>I'm sure the Nazis would have appreciated your administrative expertise.
>
>>>
>>>I suspect you know perfectly well that these records are not what you
>>>pretend that they are.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I will
>>>> continue to regard the camp records as authoritative. Keeping false
>>>> records for yourself makes no sense.
>>>
>>>As far as making sense, do you think that invading Russia in late summer 
>>>and
>>>refusing to equip your troops with winter gear makes sense?
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> I guess they should have hired a mental giant like you to be a field
>> marshall, and everything would have worked out differently.
>
>I'm not the one pretending that the records of registered prisoners are the 
>records of all those who arrived at the camps.   I'm not the one who ignores 
>the fact that Russia is a rather large place, or that its winters come early 
>and are not gentle.
>
>And I'm not the one ignoring the fact that Hitler sent his troops into 
>Russia without preparation, and then abandoned them there.
>
>> The fact is that they had not expected to still be in the area once
>> winter hit.
>
>Perhaps you are a little bit unfamiliar with geography.   Are you thinking 
>that they would have arrived in Honolulu by start of winter?
>
>> Material of all sorts had been in short supply since day
>> one, which is one reason I take allied claims that Germany launched
>> this war with a large grain of salt.
>
>And yet, Hitler  required that the war be launched, despite the objections 
>of his generals.

Hitler didn't "require the war to be launched". That decision was made
in London with somewhat reluctant participation by Paris. There were
no objections to the Polish campaign, since Poland had already
effectively declared war by ordering general mobilization of August
25.
>
>> They would have been prepared for
>> a long, big war by 1944, but not in 1939.
>
>And yet, Hitler  required that the war be launched, despite the objections 
>of his generals.
>
>> That is exactly why Britain
>> and France picked 1939 to arrange for their war.
>
>Sorry, but it was Hitler who gave the order to invade Poland.

Poland was irrelevant. It was an excuse manufactured by the British, a
country that has never been overly concerned about the independence of
small states. If not Poland, then some other excuse would have been
found. Poland was a "stolen property recovery" operation, and Germany
was perfectly justified.

>
>And still, it was Hitler who made the stupid decision to send his armies 
>into Russia in late summer without any provisions for winter gear.

They were in the suburbs of Moscow BEFORE the winter hit. When things
took too long, OKW wanted to withdraw the troops to warmer areas and
advance again in the spring. Hitler, the amateur general, considered
the propaganda implications more important than the military issues,
and the result was disaster.

>
>This was not a decision that makes sense.
>
>Does the name Bonaparte mean anything to you?
>
>>>The records you refer to only account for *registered prisoners*, but you
>>>already know that, don't you?
>>
>> I know all about the claims that they supposedly only bothered to
>> record the occasional prisoner,
>
>Oh please.   Try cleaving at least near to the facts.
>
>>  a claim that makes as much sense as
>> the Royal Bank of Canada only bothering to record the occasional
>> deposit or withdrawal.  That approach would make ALL the records
>> worthless, and they wouldn't have bothered to keep any records at all,
>> because the ones they would have would be totally worthless.
>
>Your analogy is false, like so many of your claims.   And as usual, it's 
>very easy to drive right through the hole in it.

You have failed to do that yet. Keep trying though.

>
>The Royal Bank does not record deposits or withdrawls made for other banks 
>on their own books, even when the deposits or withdrawls are made at a 
>teller machine *located in a Royal Bank*.    But this does not make the 
>Royal Bank's records worthless.   It only means that the Royal Bank records 
>the money that comes into the Royal Bank, not into other banks.
>
>Prisoners who were selected to be kept alive and assigned work were 
>registered, and appeared on the books.   Those who were not selected for 
>work were not registered, and do not appear on the books.   But they *do* 
>appear on the transport records coming in.
>
>They were recorded as being rounded up, are recorded as being transported to 
>the camp, arrive at the camp, but are not registered, and are never seen or 
>heard from again.
>
>Now would be the time for you to identify where, exactly, those who were 
>transported to the camp but were not registered and of whom there is no 
>record of transport out, are.
>
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Those who arrived at Auschwitz and were not selected for labour were not
>>>registered as prisoners, were not recorded in these books, were killed 
>>>more
>>>or less immediately, and do not appear on camp records otherwise.
>>>
>>>They appear on other non-camp records, such as the transport records.
>>>
>>>The Soviet records aren't false, they are accurate for what they are; but
>>>they just aren't a record of what you pretend they are a record of.
>>>
>>>Now, if you wanted to do something towards lowering the reparations
>>>payments, you'd be trying to get the death toll numbers higher, as the
>>>reparations were based on the number of *survivors*, not on the number of
>>>*deaths*.
>>>
>>>What you are arguing, without apparently realizing it,  is that the
>>>reparations payments to Israel are too low.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The Jews always say: 'Even if one Jew died that is a crime.' But of
>>>>>> course it makes a difference whether one has to pay for six million
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> or for 340,000," the head of the National Democratic Party added.
>>>>>
>>>>>One might note that the reparations to Israel are not - and were never -
>>>>>based on the number who died, but on the number who *survived*.
>>>>>
>>>>>If Mr Voigt wants to prove that the survivors *were actually killed*,
>>>>>which
>>>>>is what would reduce the reparations payments, now would be the time to
>>>>>show
>>>>>his work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Voigt also demanded the return of "Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania,
>>>>>> Western
>>>>>> Prussia, Eastern Prussia and Silesia, regardless of whether it is
>>>>>> Koenigsberg (Kaliningrad), Danzig (Gdansk) or Breslau (Wroclaw). "All
>>>>>> these cities are German in our view, and we demand to exercise our
>>>>>> rights
>>>>>> over them."
>>>>>
>>>>>He's entitled to his view.   That doesn't mean he's also entitled to 
>>>>>take
>>>>>the property of others.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2007126 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:11:37 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"RJ11"  kirjoitti viestissä:grmtoe$oij$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article <1b1tt41o8jcvi3bi2mt5mm6oqf5e4tspp1@4ax.com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>> In my opinion, the Poles got their pound of flesh in 1945, and no Pole
>>> should ever be allowed to cross into Germany and no Polish goods or
>>> commerce should be able to go through Germany. The same goes for the
>>> Czechs. Both populations should be allowed to live in Uganda-like
>>> poverty and anguish from now until the end of the world.
>>
>>   Jesus Christ!  Reichsfuhrer Skaliks is going to war!
>>
>
>Why is Johannes von Ebersdorf called Skaliks ? Does it come from the past 
>years when I was not around.
>
>Topi 
>

The mental midgets surrounding McVay have this obsession about
skaliks, a poster who frequented this newsgroup about twenty years
ago.

Besides, the McVay idiots are so stupid that they cannot even count
back the years to realize that whatever happened during WW2 was way
before this person was even alive, and so he couldn't have been either
a Reichfuhrer (note the incompetent spelling) or any other official of
the period. As far as I know, even the guy's mother was only a young
girl when the war ended. I usually ignore any post that contains the
word "skaliks" as simple-minded baiting, but you seem like a
reasonable sort so you deserve some sort of explanation.

I rent accommodations in the guy's house and get to use his wireless
internet connection for my computer. So the mental midgets have put
together two and two to get five. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2007128 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE DEMJANJUK! JAIL KADISH!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:47:01 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:7466ckF1256vlU1@mid.individual.net...
>> ohn Demjanjuk, a model hard-working American, who already has spent 5 
>> years in solitary confinement in Israel, with the kid-glove treatment of 
>> Ben-ami Kadish, an admitted traitor and spy for Israel who has been 
>> allowed to plead guilty in return for probation.
>> http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2008/December/08-nsd-1154.html
>>
>
>You don't seem to like hispanics/latinos much do you Heine? 
>
You seem to be a German-hater, so what is your point?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:51:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2007129 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Plan To Exterminate the German Race Via Mass Sterilisation
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:27:43 -0700 (PDT), "Jew - Defender & Nazi -
Killer"  wrote:

>Two comments:
>
>After all those years you finally come up with ONE Jew who proposes
>sterilisation in order to get rid of the German problem? If I find ONE
>German or ONE Canadian or ONE Dutchman who says something rather
>extreme, am I entitled to therefore propose killing ALL Germans, ALL
>Canadians and ALL Dutchmen?
>
>Secondly, it should be noted that I find Kaufmans solution of
>sterilization rather harmless when you notice that Germans already
>before 1941 had killed many Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and mentally
>handicapped people.

> I find Kaufmans response very civilised and measured.

You would. My estimation of you as a simple-minded genocidal bigot was
apparently accurate.

>
>On 9 apr, 18:08, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> Germany Must Perish! is the title of a 104-page book written by Theodore N.
>> Kaufman (Jew) and self-published in 1941, which advocates the sterilization
>> of all Germans, and the territorial dismemberment of Germany. Kaufman
>> founded the Argyle Press of Newark, New Jersey, USA, in order to
>> self-publish his sentiments
>>
>> Extract from the book.
>>
>> "There remains then but one mode of ridding the world forever of Germanism -
>> and that is to stem the source from which issue those war-lusted souls, by
>> preventing the people of Germany from ever again reproducing their kind.
>> This modern method, known to science as Eugenic Sterilization, is at once
>> practical, humane and thorough. Sterilization has become a byword of
>> science, as the best means of ridding the human race of its misfits: the
>> degenerate, the insane, the hereditary criminal.
>>
>> When one realizes that such health measures as vaccination and serum
>> treatments are considered as direct benefits to the community, certainly
>> sterilization of the German people cannot but be considered a great health
>> measure promoted by humanity to immunize itself forever against the virus of
>> Germanism. The population of Germany, excluding conquered and annexed
>> territories, is about 70,000,000, almost equally divided between male and
>> female. To achieve the purpose of German extinction it would be necessary to
>> only sterilize some 48,000,000 - a figure which excludes, because of their
>> limited power to procreate, males over 60 years of age, and females over 45.
>>
>> Concerning the males subject to sterilization the army groups, as organized
>> units, would be the easiest and quickest to deal with. Taking 20,000
>> surgeons as an arbitrary number and on the assumption that each will perform
>> a minimum of 25 operations daily, it would take no more than one month, at
>> the maximum, to complete their sterilization. Naturally the more doctors
>> available, and many more than the 20,000 we mention would be available
>> considering all the nations to be drawn upon, the less time would be
>> required. The balance of the male civilian population of Germany could be
>> treated within three months. Inasmuch as the sterilization of women needs
>> somewhat more time, it may be computed that the entire female population of
>> Germany could be sterilized within a period of three years or less. Complete
>> sterilization of both sexes, and not only one, is to be considered necessary
>> in view of the present German doctrine that so much as one drop of true
>> German blood constitutes a German.
>>
>> Of course, after compete sterilization there will cease to be a birth rate
>> in Germany. At the normal death rate of 2% per annum, German life will
>> diminish at the rate of 1,500,000 yearly. Accordingly in the span of two
>> generations, that which cost millions of lives and centuries of useless
>> effort, namely, the elimination of Germanism and its carriers, will have
>> been accomplished fact."
>>
>> The Jew Kaufmann has thought out every last detail of his sterilization
>> plan. He makes the following proposals:
>>
>> 1. The German army will be immediately and totally disarmed, and all weapons
>> will be removed from German territory.
>>
>> 2. All German facilities and industrial plans will be placed under strong
>> guard. All German workers will be replaced by workers from Allied nations.
>>
>> 3. The German army will be divided into groups that will be segregated in
>> strictly separated regions and sterilized.
>>
>> 4. The civilian population, women as well as men, will be organized within
>> given areas and also sterilized.
>>
>> 5. After sterilization, the German army will be divided into work brigades
>> and used to rebuild destroyed cities.
>>
>> 6. Germany will be partitioned and its territory given to neighboring
>> states.
>>
>> 7. Germans will not be allowed to travel beyond the established borders
>> until the completion of sterilization.
>>
>> 8. The German population of the partitions will be forced to learn the
>> language of their new country. Within a year, the publication of all books,
>> newspapers and announcements in German will be prohibited, as will
>> broadcasts in German and the teaching of the German language.
>>
>> 9. The only Germans exempt from sterilization will be those with relatives
>> in the victorious nations who will undertake financial responsibility for
>> their emigration and support, as well as moral responsibility for their
>> actions.
>>
>> LINKS FOR FURTHER READINGhttp://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ds15.htm


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2007364 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:34:19 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:0ulut418acjbqdm7aiu99qpiet9276dup9@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:30:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:k9ust4t4076egnp6aratma1qmej01b81p4@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:44:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:qu0st4t8s8aq2rlhtru0febkp3p4pe9ogk@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:33:55 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article ,
>>>>>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >You obviously do not have to believe anything I say, although you 
>>>>>>>> >and
>>>>>>>> >I both know that I have no "assignment" here.  Irving's problems
>>>>>>>> >though were not in an allied court.  You should read up on the
>>>>>>>> >lawsuit
>>>>>>>> >he lost.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A British court is not an impartial institution since it is part of 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> system that has a vested interest in the allied version of WW1 and
>>>>>>>> WW2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The issue at stake was not the allied or any other version of WW I and
>>>>>>>WW
>>>>>>>II. It was whether Deborah Lipstadt had, as alleged by David Irving,
>>>>>>>libeled David Irving when she defamed him, justifying her defamatory
>>>>>>>claims with examples, as a dishonest historian in her book *Denying 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>Holocaust. The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The outcome of the trial was essentially the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. David Irving informed the court that although he had held more
>>>>>>>extreme
>>>>>>>views when Deborah Lipstadt had published her book in 1993, as of the
>>>>>>>trial, in spring 2000, he did not deny that the Nazis systematically
>>>>>>>killed millions of European Jews, but he did question whether this
>>>>>>>killing
>>>>>>>was a matter of state policy, whether Hitler was initially aware of 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>killing or, when he found out about it, of its extent, and whether gas
>>>>>>>chambers, the existence and homicidal use of which David Irving did 
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>deny, were used to the extent claimed in the standard literature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2. David Irving was unable to demonstrate ti the court that any of the
>>>>>>>critical claims Lipstadt had made about his methodology and writings
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>untrue or malicious and thus either unjustified or libelous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3. David Irving's two expert witnesses informed the court that they 
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>in general agreement with Deborah Lipstadt's criticism of Irving's
>>>>>>>unprofessionalism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4. Deborah Lipstadt's defense team was able to produce dozens more
>>>>>>>examples, some of them from writings that had nothing to do with
>>>>>>>Holocaust-related issues,  of David Irving's dishonesty as a 
>>>>>>>historian,
>>>>>>>thus further supporting her criticism of his lack of professional
>>>>>>>ethics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since it was a libel trial, and David Irving was unable to demonstrate
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>the court that even a single critical claim made by Deborah Lipstadt
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>his dishonesty as a historian was both demonstrably untrue and
>>>>>>>malicious,
>>>>>>>he lost that case. Justified professional criticism is, by its very
>>>>>>>definition, defamatory, but not libelous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This has nothing to do with the court's "vested interest" in upholding 
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>certain version of historical events. David Irving's professional
>>>>>>>practices and writings were subjected to demonstrably true and 
>>>>>>>justified
>>>>>>>professional criticism. He reacted by suing his critic for libel, in 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>hope of silencing her and preventing such criticism from becoming 
>>>>>>>known
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>a wider audience. Even pleading his own case in court, Daviud Irving 
>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>unable to demonstrate that anything written about him by Deborah
>>>>>>>Lipstadt
>>>>>>>had been libelous, while Deborah Lipstadt's team succeeded in
>>>>>>>demonstrating to the court that the few examples discussed in her book
>>>>>>>were merely a small sample of a much longer and frequent pattern of
>>>>>>>systematic professional misconduct, an assessment with which David
>>>>>>>Irving's own expert witnesses had no difficulty agreeing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you make yoourself guilty of easily verified professional 
>>>>>>>misconduct
>>>>>>>and someone blows the whistle on you, you have only yourself to blame 
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>you sue the whistleblower for libel, hoping to silence your critic, 
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>lose.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Judge Charles Gray had no other alternative than rule that David 
>>>>>>>Irving
>>>>>>>had not been libeled, for which reason Irving, by definition,
>>>>>>>demonstrated
>>>>>>>himself to be a dishonest historian, just as Deborah Lipstadt had
>>>>>>>claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was a political judgement made by a politically motivated court.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, it was a legal decision made in a court biased towards the person 
>>>>>who
>>>>>brought the action - Irving.
>>>>
>>>> It is really tough to win a libel action in Britain.
>>>
>>>Well, that would be true anywhere, when the defendant is speaking the 
>>>truth
>>>and can prove it with the plaintiff's own words.   But in the UK, it's a 
>>>lot
>>>easier than in North America.
>>>
>>>The absolute defence against a libel action is of course that there is a
>>>statement of truth, and Lipstadt and Penguin were able to prove that
>>>Lipstadt had written, and Penguin had published, the truth about Irving.
>>>
>>>> It would have been easier in Canada because here the law actually DOES
>>>> side with the
>>>> plaintiff, but not in Britain.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but Irving chose to file in the UK specifically because the courts
>>>are biased towards the plaintiff, in this case Irving.
>>>
>>>In Canada and the US,
>>
>> Anytime you lump Canadian and American laws together, the chances are
>> very good that you are wrong. The American and Canadian legal systems
>> have very little in common.
>
>Well, for once you're right on  a point, but your premise is still wrong. 
>The bias of the court in Canada not as in the US, it is exactly the same as 
>in Britain- towards the plaintiff.   There is of course an exception for 
>actions filed under Quebec laws.
>
>Canada has a libel law structure based closely on the UK system,

You're only about a century out of date. Canadian laws are also quite
different from British laws. 

> presuming 
>that if the libel action is begun, it is justified.   The bias is towards 
>the plaintiff, the defendant must prove the truth (or privilege) of the 
>statements (again with exceptions in Quebec).

Laws in Britain have diverged from the original pattern, so that it
has become very difficult to win a libel action in the UK, but not
quite so difficult in Canada.

Try to avoid lecturing me on conditions in my own country. You are on
pretty thin ice when you try that.

>
>Irving chose to file in the UK rather than in the US, where Lipstadt lives 
>and where the book was published, because under both UK and Canadian libel 
>laws, there is an automatic assumption that the plaintiff has been 
>libelled - that what the defendant published is false - and that damages 
>have been incurred.
>
>In both the UK and Canadian (excepting Quebec) libel systems, the whole 
>burden of proof rests on the *defendant*.   This is why the court is biased 
>towards the plaintiff.   And this is why the Lipstadt / Penguin defence cost 
>so much, and why the costs award bankrupted Irving.
>
>In the US, the opposite holds. The *plaintiff* must prove that the published 
>material is false.   In the US system, the court is biased towards the 
>defendant, and that is why Irving chose to file in the UK
>
>And so we still see that your claim that "here the law actually DOES side 
>with the plaintiff, but not in Britain" is false.
>
>So once again, you made a false distinction, and attempted to base your 
>argument on it.
>
>HTH
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>>> it is necessary for the plaintiff, in this case
>>>Irving, to prove that he or she HAS BEEN defamed.
>>>
>>>In the UK, it's reversed.   It's the defendant who has to prove that they
>>>HAVE NOT defamed the plaintiff.
>>>
>>>And this is what cause the legal expenses to be as high as they were:  In
>>>order to show that they HAD NOT defamed Irving, Lipstadt and Penguin had 
>>>to
>>>produce a comprehensive and exhaustive defence that showed that Lipstadt 
>>>had
>>>written, and Penguin had published, the truth.
>>>
>>>Irving made the foolish choice to try to bully people who have the spine 
>>>to
>>>stand up for their statements.   He was not remotely able to show that he
>>>had been defamed.
>>>
>>>And again, Irving was trying to suppress freedom of speech.    And again,
>>>not a word from you on that issue.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Lipstadt's lawyers showed that her evaluation of Irving was justified
>>>>>based
>>>>>on Irving's own writings.
>>>>>
>>>>>Irving completely and utterly failed to counter this.   He didn't appear
>>>>>to
>>>>>even know how to try to explain his own words.
>>>>>
>>>>>There was absolutely no need for politics.   The facts were more than
>>>>>sufficient.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There are no surprises there.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it isn't a surprise that you must pretend that this is anything 
>>>>>other
>>>>>than Irving going to court with a very, very weak case.
>>>>>
>>>>>He tried to bully people who were exercising their rights to speech. 
>>>>>His
>>>>>own words showed that Lipstadt's evaluation was correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you *want* to apply a political cast to this, look at it this way:
>>>>>The
>>>>>Court supported Ms. Lipstadt's rights to free speech.
>>>>>
>>>>>You are one of those guys who likes to pretend you're in favour of free
>>>>>speech, aren't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>>Eugene Holman
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2007365 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:12:05 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tcust4pimsvi8p0u8pv502oj7lc82p57ak@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:04:43 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:941st4hebrqtul5e9bg39b30lhne10o7k8@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:26:57 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article , "Truthseeker"
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Amazing Eugene what a Jews team can to with all the money and power 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> have over others. Honesty is something your friends have never done. 
>>>>>> How
>>>>>> much of an expert is your friend Mr van der Pelt ??. He sure known how
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> but on a show but he does not know the difference between an explosion
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> implosion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>David Irving made a career of writing dishonest history
>>>>
>>>> Irving had written all sorts of history books without a single peep of
>>>> complaint,
>>>
>>>Sorry, but this is false.
>>>
>>>Irving had been sued for libel previously, in 1968 by Captain K E Broome.
>>>Irving lost then, too.
>>
>> LOL
>
>You find it amusing that you are so easily shown to be wrong, I see.
>
>
>> I was just finishing my education then, before I started working, so I
>> have never heard of Mr. Broome or his complaint.
>
>And so you didn't bother to even check if your assertion was correct before 
>making it.
>
>How typical of you.
>
>Do you pretend that after your education was complete, you knew everything?

No, that is more your style.

>
>>
>> I assume that a Google search will cause Mr. Broome to surface, or is
>> he one of your inventions?
>
>This knowledge is not hidden, except from those who refuse to look.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Being taken to court for libel could very well be interpreted as a "peep 
>>>of
>>>complaint", so your premise is false.
>>>
>>>Again.
>>>
>>>> until he made the mistake to stepping on the toes of the
>>>> holocaustT industry. He suddenly became an historical hack
>>>
>>>It wasn't sudden.
>>>
>>>> and was subjected to a world-wide campaign of vilification and character
>>>> assassination.
>>>
>>>Actually it was honest evaluation of his tactics, that Holocaust deniers 
>>>and
>>>"revisionists" mounted a campaign against.
>>>
>>>His real problems came when he decided that other people shouldn't have a
>>>right to free speech, and chose the wrong target to bully.
>>>
>>>He lost twice before a total of four judges, and he lost because Lipstadt
>>>wrote the truth about him.
>>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and then tried to
>>>>>use the British court system to prevent word of this from spreading when
>>>>>it was pointed out by a professional historian. He failed to do so, and
>>>>>now the entire world knows of his dishonesty. End of story.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Eugene Holman
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2007366 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 4/7/2009 9:51 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:35:57 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:23:23 -0400, in 
>>> , Doc Tony 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:50:34 -0400, in 
>>>>> <8olet41l48jo8gqbcjcv5d176e352ut497@4ax.com>, Johannes von
>>>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:21:13 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 4/2/2009 3:48 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 30, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:50:09 -0700 (PDT),Michael
>>>>>>>>>> Ejercito
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 5:57 am, Topaz 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> by James Buchanan Let's say the Germans merely
>>>>>>>>>>>> removed the Jews from positions of political
>>>>>>>>>>>> power and banned them from the legal profession.
>>>>>>>>>>> How were things in Germany on May 1, 1945?
>>>>>>>>>> What is special about May 1?
>>>>>>>>> It was the day after Hitler killed himself.
>>>>>>>> The war continued unabated, and it was the German armed
>>>>>>>> services that decided a week later that it was
>>>>>>>> impractical to continue. The machinery of state continued
>>>>>>>> to function and a new chancellor was appointed in the
>>>>>>>> form of Grand Admiral Dönitz. There was nothing special
>>>>>>>> about May 1. It was May 8 that was the onset of the 
>>>>>>>> catastrophe for Germany. Far more people died AFTER May
>>>>>>>> 8, 1945 than had died between January 30, 1933 and May 8,
>>>>>>>> 1945. It was another one of those Iraqi-style allied
>>>>>>>> "liberations" that have now clearly become the pattern of
>>>>>>>> allied "liberations".
>>>>>>> I don't know what you are imbibing, but it must be illegal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When cornered, olde gourd accuses others of being druggies.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany
>>>>>> basically started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths
>>>>>> into shadow.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> No doubt, Gord, the same "Papagei®" Ebe 'support' [cough-cough]
>>>> that caused Ebe to announce that the Führer was merely acting in
>>>>  "self-defense" [!] with the invasion of Poland because Ebe says
>>>> that it was a matter of common knowledge that the Poles were
>>>> "mobilizing" [!] weeks before September 1, 1939
>> 
>> Perhaps you could urge the arsehole who infests Darmstadt to read a 
>> few history books. Poland ordered general mobilization of
>> 25-Aug-1939, de facto a declaration of war against Germany. Germany
>> took over a week to respond, whereas American reaction to a similar
>> circumstance would be one hell of a lot quicker.
>
>I suppose with 2 million German soldiers massed on its border, one might
>understand why Poland ordered mobilization.

As usual, you create a false time-line to obfuscate the discussion.
Poland mobilized its army, an action that by European custom counts as
a declaration of war, and Germany did not respond for a week. When
Britain and France declared war on Germany in September of 1939,
Germany did not respond in any significant way until the spring and
summer of 1940. That sure doesn't sound like a bunch plotting the
takeover of the world, as allied propaganda would have it.

>
>
>
>Poland partly mobilized its troops on August 24, 1939, and fully
>mobilized on August 30, 1939, following the increased confrontations
>with Germany since March 1939. On September 1, 1939 Germany invaded
>Poland, which prompted both France and Britain to declare war on
>Germany. However, they were slow to mobilize, and by the time Poland had
>been overrun by the Axis powers, only minor operations had been carried
>out by the French at the Saar River.
>
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2007369 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:03:14 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 4/7/2009 9:54 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:38:29 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:30:02 -0400, in 
>>> , Johannes von
>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany
>>>>>> basically started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths
>>>>>> into shadow.
>>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>> The German government archives and the writings of several dozen 
>>>> authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest 
>>>> rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred
>>>>  after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.
>>>> 
>>>> The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians,
>>>> including almost half a million children under 14, but the
>>>> immediate postwar artificial allied starvation program killed
>>>> almost 3 million people, and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing
>>>> killed another several millions in the eastern provinces. Of the
>>>> original population of 14 million in the eastern provinces, only
>>>> 10 million survived. Dr. Konrad Adenauer, the first postwar
>>>> chancellor, estimated the losses in the east as high as six
>>>> million. The allies arranged for a reign of terror against ethnic
>>>> Germans who were not official German citizens, and the death toll
>>>> among them went into the millions also.
>>> I have never heard any of this.  Do you have references?
>> 
>> I have a library of several dozen books on the topic. Perhaps you 
>> should try doing a bit of reading so you actually know something
>> about the topic before attempting to engage people in discussions
>> where, by your own admission, you know and understand very little.
>> What you haven't heard of is not my problem.
>
>It's pretty hard for me to be aware of something you made up.
>
>Perhaps you should try to understand that your unsubstantiated
>allegations are not worth jackshit and are hereby dismissed.

You're a silly turd, McFee. It matters not what you dismiss or reject
since the truth will stand and your lies will vanish. It isn't up to
me. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion with people on an
historical topic and your uninvited meddling is starting to annoy.

You clearly know nothing about Germany or its people. You are just a
narrow-minded hater and bigot that is spreading his poison on this
newsgroup.

Please do me the favour of never again responding to one of my posts.
They are not intended for you and I do not seek your opinion on this
or any other topic. In plain language, fuck off.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2007371 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eat your heart out McVay
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:38:51 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Why not leave the part I postet in your reply you are nothing but  a con 
>artist for us.

It is always funny to see McVay spinning his wheels with endless
numbers of distorted and falsified "quotations" by his current victim.
If you are being targetted by McVay, he must fear your posts as being
too effective and hence you must be intimidated into leaving the
discussion.

>kk
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:5LmdnXFlK8ZU7kLUnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>
>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>news:RxIDl.22345$PH1.6816@edtnps82...
>>>>      Franciszek Piper
>>
>> Your point was that more than a million died at Auschwitz, Frau
>> Pikelhaube? We already knew that.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
>> with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>> were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown typewriter
>> in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state department about in 
>> 1940."
>> (Message-ID: m7_Ah.1010750$R63.692769@pd7urf1no, by Kurt Knoll, Kitimat,
>> B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar) 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2007374 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll to account for his lies?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:23:17 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>The synagoe is still there were it has always been it did survive the war 
>and only the roof was damaged. Why don't you go and look for it.
>Kurt Knoll
>
>"I'll Always Be 10/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-6E8896.12403010042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <1WKDl.21093$Db2.18962@edtnps83>,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Never created lies just repeat what I read. Honesty you have never known.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> YOu said there was a synagogue in
>> Nuremberg while you were there. You lied.

There was and there is. YOU lied.

>>
>> You say there is a gag order on germans.
>> You lied.

Kurt told the truth. And it is Germans, Mr. Insanity, not germans. You
clearly have no respect for others, so it is no my intention to follow
suit and any reference to Jews will be rendered jews.

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>> news:5LmdnW9lK8a95ULUnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@vex.net...
>>> > In article ,
>>> > Truthseeker  wrote:
>>> >>Cheating lining and distorting facts are Jewish domains no one else can
>>> >>ever
>>> >>come close to it.
>>> >
>>> > So, Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll, does that mean you will now
>>> > account for your lies?
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
>>> > with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>>> > were lying.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>>> > is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>>> > and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>>> > claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>>> > that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>>> > "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>>> > concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>>> > as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>>> > (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>>> > have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>>> > death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>>> > that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>>> > assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>>> > deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>>> > ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>>> > sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>>> > been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>>> > archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>>> > 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>>> > somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>>> > as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>>> > prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>>> > the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>>> > within the treaty.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>>> > post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>>> > light" as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or 
>>> > not
>>> > materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of 
>>> > newspapers
>>> > printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim 
>>> > about
>>> > gassings at Dachau.
>>> >
>>> > YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque 
>>> > exists
>>> > outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>>> > as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>>> > Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>>> > claimed.
>>> >
>>> > THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>>> > easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>> >
>>> > YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>>> > "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > "Don't you know the Jews are the only once who can tell the
>>> > truce all other people like us just to stupid to understand
>>> > they have us believe." (Kurt Knoll, the Village Idiot of
>>> > Kitimat & Leading Example of  "Revisionist Scholarship") 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2007376 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Talibans use Photoshop to borrow women of govt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:16:53 -0700 (PDT), Zulu 
wrote:

>Women in Israeli govt? Not if Photoshop can help

Seeing how easy it was to falsify that portrait, it makes one wonder
what value the allied photographs of alleged German atrocities
actually have. In many cases, real photographs are simply set up under
false captions. It still ends up being a lie.

>
>The Associated Press
>
>JERUSALEM -- Two women serve in Israel's new Cabinet, but some
>Israelis would rather not see them.
>
>Newspapers aimed at ultra-Orthodox Jewish readers tampered with the
>inaugural photograph of the Cabinet, erasing ministers Limor Livnat
>and Sofa Landver.
>
>Ultra-Orthodox newspapers consider it immodest to print images of
>women.
>
>The daily Yated Neeman digitally changed the photo, moving two male
>ministers into the places formerly occupied by the women.
>
>The weekly Shaa Tova simply blacked the women out, in a photo
>reprinted Friday by the mainstream daily Maariv.
>
>No response was available from the two papers.
>
>During the election, campaign posters featuring female candidate Tzipi
>Livni were defaced near ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods.
>
>
>http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/982229.html


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2007378 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>
>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>
>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>
>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the 
>facts are available.   Look them up.
>
>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods

It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
a person with a red flag walking in front of it.

> - these are 
>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that the 
>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if the 
>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be 
>convicted.
>
>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that what he 
>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not 
>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that Zundel 
>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as 
>generally understood.
>
>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution 
>permits a right to lie.
>
>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications were 
>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by it.
>
>
>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>
>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>
>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about the 
>> holocaust.
>
>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about the 
>Holocaust".
>
>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are 
>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>
>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against an 
>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada. 
>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a group 
>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to gain 
>passing grades.
>
>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an 
>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>
>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged with, 
>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>
>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers and 
>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for historical 
>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>
>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in public, 
>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust 
>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their 
>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by 
>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements that 
>are illegal under Canadian law.
>
>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to believe 
>> it.
>
>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>
>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of 
>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no charges 
>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't illegal - 
>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable group.
>
>-pk
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>
>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence was 
>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>
>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>>
>>>> kk
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a 
>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and 
>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong 
>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>
>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for 
>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually 
>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he 
>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was 
>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a 
>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists. 
>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not 
>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2007428 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 02:13:42 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Gord you are in the extortion business Ebersdorf is not.

Gourd is a moron. I've become rather tired of his name-calling and
constant stupid barrage of "liar" regarding things that have been
shown to be true more than half a century ago. He is just a cheap-shot
propagandist who would give you an argument should you say that the
sun tends to rise in the east, and the fact that it has done so every
day for the last four and a half billion years would not constitute
evidence for him.

He is just a jackass out to disrupt the newsgroup. This topic really
needs a moderated newsgroup where posts like those of McFee and McVay
are reviewed in advance by a team of moderators and not posted if they
are rude or disruptive. McVay & McFee have made it their project to
see that alt.revisionism cannot function.

I have yet to see either McVay or McFee make any sort of contribution
to this newsgroup. The two of them, and their host of fictitious
friends, have made this newsgroup into a zoo with their hysterical
shrieking and aggressive rudeness.


>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:0utvt4d200ccg27tujtj918s0nsieq6kdq@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:23:04 +0000 (UTC), in
>> , a little sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>
>>> > You're a silly turd, McFee. It matters not what you dismiss or reject
>>>            ^^^^^^^^^^
>>> > since the truth will stand and your lies will vanish. It isn't up to
>>> > me. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion with people on an
>>>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> > historical topic and your uninvited meddling is starting to annoy.
>>
>> Not too bright, is he?
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2007429 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:56:04 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Now this is something what confuses me. Looks like you do not even know how 
>your system works. What we are looking at are always one sided version of 
>histories. Certainly every effort is made made make sure no one gets to hear 
>the German version of world war II. Look at as example how the American 
>system work. Every they start, instigate, manipulate a war they are many 
>headlines of rhetoric taken place. World War 2 and why the germans startet 
>were all openly printed in the British and German news papers. To ovoid any 
>questioning or controversy the Germans today are not allowed to reprint what 
>was printed in the news papers from 1918 till 1945. it is the purpose of 
>this to keep in the dark and intentionally to prevent any controversies. 
>This is what I call manipulating histories and I consider this has been done 
>intentionally.

There isn't much point to trying to converse with McFee. The man is a
moron. Use your newsreader's filter to put McFee in the garbage bin
where he belongs. I should have done that months ago, but kept hoping
that the man actually had a brain. He has shown clearly that he
doesn't and that his non-contributions to this newsgroup will
continue. My time is too valuable to waste on his garbage posts, so I
will no longer see them unless somebody else replies to him.

I see that he is already babbling about people running away. I haven't
run away, I have just put him and his trash in the garbage bin where
it actually belongs.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:5hSDl.119494$Yx2.117706@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 4/10/2009 6:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:03:14 -0400, Gord McFee  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/7/2009 9:54 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:38:29 -0400, Gord McFee  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:30:02 -0400, in 
>>>>>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany 
>>>>>>>>> basically started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into 
>>>>>>>>> shadow.
>>>>>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>>>>> The German government archives and the writings of several dozen 
>>>>>>> authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest 
>>>>>>> rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred 
>>>>>>> after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians, including 
>>>>>>> almost half a million children under 14, but the immediate postwar 
>>>>>>> artificial allied starvation program killed
>>>>>>>  almost 3 million people, and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing 
>>>>>>> killed another several millions in the eastern provinces. Of the 
>>>>>>> original population of 14 million in the eastern provinces, only 10 
>>>>>>> million survived. Dr. Konrad Adenauer, the first postwar chancellor, 
>>>>>>> estimated the losses in the east as high as six million. The allies 
>>>>>>> arranged for a
>>>>>>>  reign of terror against ethnic Germans who were not official
>>>>>>>  German citizens, and the death toll among them went into the
>>>>>>>  millions also.
>>>>>> I have never heard any of this.  Do you have references?
>>>>> I have a library of several dozen books on the topic. Perhaps you
>>>>>  should try doing a bit of reading so you actually know something
>>>>>  about the topic before attempting to engage people in discussions 
>>>>> where, by your own admission, you know and understand
>>>>>  very little. What you haven't heard of is not my problem.
>>>>>
>>>> It's pretty hard for me to be aware of something you made up.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you should try to understand that your unsubstantiated 
>>>> allegations are not worth jackshit and are hereby dismissed.
>>>
>>> You're a silly turd, McFee. It matters not what you dismiss or reject
>>>  since the truth will stand and your lies will vanish. It isn't up to
>>>  me. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion with people on an
>>>  historical topic and your uninvited meddling is starting to annoy.
>>
>> Tough.
>>
>>> You clearly know nothing about Germany or its people. You are just a
>>>  narrow-minded hater and bigot that is spreading his poison on this 
>>> newsgroup.
>>
>> I have forgotten more about Germany than you know.  I also happen to
>> deal in the truth, something of which you are ignorant.
>
>
>>
>>> Please do me the favour of never again responding to one of my posts.
>>
>> Please go fuck yourself.
>>
>>> They are not intended for you and I do not seek your opinion on this or 
>>> any other topic. In plain language, fuck off.
>>
>> I will respond to whatever I wish.  If you choose to run away, like you
>> gutless swine are inclined to so, be my guest.
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2007430 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Apr 7, 8:53 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> On Apr 6, 8:37 pm, Tim Miller 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Topaz wrote:
>> > >   German leaders beleived in death before dishonor.
>>
>> > No, they didn't. Like you, they didn't even understand
>> > the DEFINITION of honor.
>>
>> That's a blatant lie.  If you want to see who is dishonorable take a
>> look at what the Americans did to the DEF's.  Hiroshima, Nagasaki,
>> Dresden.  But you know the score.
>
>Hard to see what was dishonorable about them.  Hiroshima was a major
>military center and Nagasaki was an industrial center devoted to
>manufacturing weapons.

Even if your claims about the two cities were true, and there is
little evidence that they are, it wouldn't justify the civilian
atrocity that the Americans put together.

> And we were at war with Japan.

So? That justifies civilian atrocities, does it? What is your whine
about the Nazis then, if civilian atrocities are acceptable?

>
>Dresden was burned by the UK. 

Actually it was an Anglo-American joint effort of senseless
destruction.


>I am not as familiar with it as I am
>the bombing of Japan, but it happened during the war, and I'm sure the
>UK was aiming for legitimate targets.

That is pretty naive of you. But for Americans, ignorance does indeed
seem to be bliss.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2007431 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:21:47 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>
>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>
>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>
>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the
>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>
>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>
>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>
>Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>
>The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen years 
>ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that he had a 
>constitutional right to lie.

Why do you suppose that this archaic piece of legislation was struck
down in 1992? Could it be because of its fraudulent use as a
harassment tool by Sabina and her remembrance committee?

>
>So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.

The Zundel fiasco brought about its demise. This archaic legislation
can no longer be used as a harassment tool to intimidate people into
paying lip service to holocaust™ orthodoxy.


>
>Do try to keep up with the news.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>> - these are
>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that the
>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if 
>>>the
>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>convicted.
>>>
>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that what 
>>>he
>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that 
>>>Zundel
>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>generally understood.
>>>
>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution
>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>
>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications were
>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>
>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>
>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about the
>>>> holocaust.
>>>
>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>the
>>>Holocaust".
>>>
>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are
>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>
>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against an
>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a 
>>>group
>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to gain
>>>passing grades.
>>>
>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an
>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>
>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged 
>>>with,
>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>
>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers 
>>>and
>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for 
>>>historical
>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>
>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in public,
>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust
>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their
>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements that
>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>
>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to 
>>>> believe
>>>> it.
>>>
>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>
>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no charges
>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't 
>>>illegal -
>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable group.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>
>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence 
>>>>> was
>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a
>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for
>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that 
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published 
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.
>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2007432 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83> <0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com>  <3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com>     
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:26:24 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>There is no such a thing as a right to lie but it is everybody's right to 
>raise questions. Honesty you have never known.

Mr. Keenan is another one of the mindless lackeys of McFee and McVay.
His stuff is really quite predictable.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:v7idnTozI_Oc233UnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>
>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>
>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>
>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the
>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>
>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>
>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>
>> Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>
>> The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen 
>> years ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that he 
>> had a constitutional right to lie.
>>
>> So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.
>>
>> Do try to keep up with the news.
>>
>> -pk
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> - these are
>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that the
>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if 
>>>>the
>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>convicted.
>>>>
>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that what 
>>>>he
>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that 
>>>>Zundel
>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>generally understood.
>>>>
>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution
>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>
>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications were
>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by 
>>>>it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>
>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>
>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about the
>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>
>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>>the
>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>
>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are
>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>
>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against 
>>>>an
>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a 
>>>>group
>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to gain
>>>>passing grades.
>>>>
>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an
>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>
>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged 
>>>>with,
>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>
>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers 
>>>>and
>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for 
>>>>historical
>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>
>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in 
>>>>public,
>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust
>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their
>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements that
>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>
>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to 
>>>>> believe
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>
>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no 
>>>>charges
>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't 
>>>>illegal -
>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable 
>>>>group.
>>>>
>>>>-pk
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for
>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that 
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published 
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2007434 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:23:15 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>Not believing does not mean is a right to lie. Go and get yourself checked 
>out by a shrink you are a nut case. There is a difference not between 
>believing and not trusting you.

You are probably being too subtle for poor Patrick. In a fashion
similar to a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman, he only knows to
spew the memorized pitch fed to him by his masters, in this case
McFee/McVay.

>
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:H-ednZh0wOI01H3UnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "Topaz"  wrote in message 
>> news:2rlvt414jojumo3ofg5ldskbia57jc26h2@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:50:29 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, the problem with the Jury is that they were able to think for
>>>>themselves, and were not persuaded by Zundel that *he actually believed 
>>>>that
>>>>what he was publishing as true was true*.
>>>
>>> That is the biggest crock of poop ever to be posted. The Jews control
>>> the media and the minds of the Jury. Even if they did want to go
>>> against what the Jews want, they wouldn't have the balls.  And anyone
>>> reading what Zundel had to say knows that this jury has it's
>>> collective head up a Jews aft end.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Whether the published material turned out to be true or not was not
>>>>particularly relevant to the defence.
>>>>
>>>>What was relevant was establishing that the defendant believed it.
>>>>
>>>>But, in the end, Zundel could not persuade either of two juries (or the
>>>>Supreme Court of Canada) that he believed that what he was publishing as
>>>>true, was true.
>>>
>>> So what!
>>
>> Well, so that means that rational people don't buy that Zundel believes 
>> that the Holocaust did not occur more or less as is generally understood.
>>
>> And their judgement is born out by Zundel's decision to claim a right to 
>> lie as grounds for appeal.
>>
>> Why would he claim a right to lie when an absolute defence was honest 
>> belief?
>>
>>> The Jury obviously had poop for brains
>>
>> By which you mean, you disagree with their judgement.   Everybody's wrong 
>> except for you, eh?
>>
>>> and you are a low
>>> down snake in the grass
>>
>> Touch a nerve, did we?
>>
>>> for pretending this trial proves anything.
>>
>> It certainly proved something for Zundel, since - if you are to be 
>> believed - it caused him to disavow what you say are his beliefs to avoid 
>> a short jail sentence.
>>
>>
>>>>Their judgement was borne out in Zundel's appeal grounds.
>>>
>>> Their  "judgement", what a joke.  They would rather cut their own
>>> throats than upset their masters, the Jews.
>>
>> So, your view of people who do not agree with your views is that they are 
>> just pawns of Jews.
>>
>> It must be hard for you, living in a world where Jews are all-powerful and 
>> people like Zundel are so pathetically afraid of them.
>>
>> You should try moving to a better world, where people have spines and 
>> stand up for their beliefs.
>>
>>
>>>>His appeal grounds were that he had a constitutional right to publish
>>>>material he knew to be false as true - in colloqiual terms, his appeal 
>>>>was
>>>>that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>
>>> You never heard of playing devil's advocate?
>>
>> Yes, and it has nothing to do with the False News charges.
>>
>>> So he didn't want to go to jail, who does.
>>
>> Apparently it's a preferred environment for Zundel, since he took every 
>> step he could to get into and stay in a Canadian jail after the US tossed 
>> him for being illegally resident.
>>
>> He didn't have to go to jail at all, he deliberately took actions that 
>> triggered his incarceration, then made sure he stayed there for, what, two 
>> years?
>>
>>> The holo is a hoax,
>>
>> Except that the hoax is the idea, promoted by people who make money off 
>> it, that the Holocaust did not occur.  Zundel made rather a lot of money 
>> promoting this idea, and when faced with a penalty for it, would not 
>> affirm his belief in the idea.
>>
>>> Zundel told the truth,
>>
>> Sorry, but that is something that Zundel couldn't convince people of. 
>> That was his entire problem.
>>
>> And if you believe that Zundel told the truth, then you must be very 
>> disappointed in Zundel's use of a "right to lie" defence, rather than "I 
>> truly believe this".
>>
>> Too bad for you that your hero lacked a spine.
>>
>>> the Jews control the media, and the Jews are an enemy race.
>>
>> And so we see your real motivation:  You just hate Jews.
>>
>>>>No honest person who believed in the truth of their statements would make 
>>>>an
>>>>appeal on such grounds.   They would be *offended* by the suggestion.
>>>
>>>  When are you going to stop your crap.
>>
>> So now, standing up for your beliefs is crap?
>>
>>
>>> You are not the one looking at the jail cell.
>>
>> One might note, again, that Zundel took actions that put him in jail after 
>> being tossed by the US for being an illegal resident, and then took 
>> actions to stay there as long a possible.
>>
>> So I don't think you're in a position to argue anything about jail cells.
>>
>>> If you want to kiss up to Jews don't expect others to
>>> follow.
>>
>> Let me see if I understand your stated position clearly:
>>
>> For you, the fear of a short jail sentence justifies the complete 
>> abandonment of beliefs and principles.
>>
>> For you, if you've been challenged for promoting something that you really 
>> believe is true but will get you in a bit of trouble,  it's perfectly 
>> acceptable to whimper and claim that you didn't really mean it, just to 
>> weasel out of a few months in jail.
>>
>> For you, it's not worth a short jail term to stand on your hind legs and 
>> say "this is what I believe".
>>
>> For you, principles are worthless.
>>
>> Have I got that about right?
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>You may figuratively speak that way, but it doesn't affect the reality 
>>>>that
>>>>Zundel clearly did not believe that what he was publishing as true was 
>>>>true,
>>>>and certainly doesn't change the reality that he couldn't convince no 
>>>>less
>>>>than three courts that he believed it, either.
>>>
>>>  You are so full of poop it's outlandish. Can it be that you really
>>> believe what you are typing?
>>
>> It's the unvarnished truth.
>>
>> Zundel always believed that the Holocaust occurred.   Eventually, he 
>> argued that he had a right to lie about it, rather than arguing that he 
>> believed that it didn't happen.
>>
>> You can read the decisions yourself.
>>
>> And weep.
>>
>>>That can't be, you must have some other
>>> motive for grovelling before Jews.
>>
>> Sorry, but I'm not the one who decided that it was prudent to argue that 
>> there's a constitutional right to lie, rather than stand up and say "This 
>> is true!".
>>
>> That would be Zundel.
>>
>>
>>>>Except of course that it isn't.
>>>>
>>>>Zundel clearly did not believe that what he was publishing as true, was
>>>>true, and was unable to convince anyone in the legal system or on the 
>>>>juries
>>>>that he believed it.
>>>
>>> Repeating it doesn't make it less of a crock.
>>
>> Your rote denial does not refute anything.
>>
>> Two juries, the Ontario Court of Appeal and one Supreme Court were not 
>> convinced that Zundel believed that what he was publishing as truth was 
>> true.
>>
>> Zundel's grounds for appeal were that he had a *right to lie*.
>>
>> No honest person who genuinely believed in the truth of their statements 
>> or publications would ever consider presenting or accepting such an 
>> argument.
>>
>> An honest person who believed in the truth of their statements or 
>> publications would prefer jail.
>>
>>>>Please read the judgements of the Supreme Court of Canada on the matter.
>>>>They are available online.
>>>
>>> So they have the ordinary bootlickers of Jews, and they have the
>>> -Supreme-  bootlickers of Jews.
>>
>> Meanwhile, you have a guy who will not stand up for your beliefs and say 
>> "I believe this is true".
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>And far from exhonerating Zundel, the Supreme Court was also not 
>>>>convinced
>>>>that Zundel believed that what he was presenting as true, was true. 
>>>>They
>>>>recognised that Zundel was lying.
>>>>
>>>>In presenting a defence that knowingly distributing falsehood as fact is 
>>>>a
>>>>permissible form of expression, Zundel admitted that he knew that what he
>>>>was publishing was false, and that the Holocaust did occur more or less 
>>>>as
>>>>is generally understood.
>>>>
>>>>There really isn't any way around this.   If Zundel honestly believed 
>>>>that
>>>>what he was publishing as true was true, he would not have argued that he
>>>>had a right to lie.
>>>
>>>  Except he didn't want get locked up by a group of worthless Jew
>>> bootlickers.
>>
>> And here we are,  at your position that Zundel was much too afraid of a 
>> little jail time to stand up for what you say were his beliefs.
>>
>> Instead of saying "This is truth!",  he argued, "I have a right to tell 
>> lies!".
>>
>> It's no wonder that he couldn't convince his peers that he belived in what 
>> he was selling.
>>
>> And it's no wonder you are so touchy about the subject.
>>
>>>>
>>>>If he believed that what he was publishing as true was true, he would
>>>>instead have argued *that he believed in the truth* of the material.
>>>>
>>>  I don't believe you are stupid enough to be convinced by your own
>>> post. You have some unnamed reason for grovelling before Jews.
>>
>> Perhaps you should try to deal with reality.
>>
>> Face it: your hero lacked the spine to stand up and say "This is true!".
>>
>> And let's be clear: that's all he had to do to defend against the original 
>> charge.   He just had to prove that *he believed*.
>>
>> Instead, he chose to say " I have a right to lie!".   No real believer 
>> would *ever* countenance such a betrayal, so it's clear that he never 
>> believed it.
>>
>> You must be very, very disappointed in him.   It's no wonder you're so 
>> touchy on the subject.
>>
>> -pk
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 13:59:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2007435 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:14:03 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <79adnbnLb9u7nH3UnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@posted.localnet>, Doc Tony
> wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> 
>> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:48:53 +0300, in
>> > ,
>> > holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> >>In article , Doc Tony
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Hat er im Gericht stets gewinnen?
>> >>
>> >>"Gewonnen" heißt es

That is a pretty elementary mistake for somebody who claims to be a
resident of Darmstadt. Perhaps it isn't the Darmstadt located in
Hessen, but some obscure desert location in the Ignorant States of
America?

>> > 
>> > 
>> > Und das hat er niemals getan.
>> > 
>> 
>> Und, ja, der Punkt!
>
>
>Insanity (definition): to continuously repeat the same action hoping for a
>different result.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman
>
>> 
>> Doc Tony
>> ;-)
>> 
>> Watch now ...
>> 
>> Alex "Muleschlep®" Vangel: "Who's a "punk" [!] ?"
>> 
>> Gord McFee: "No-no, Alex, der PUNKT -- POINT! ... POINT!"
>> 
>> Vangel: "Huh?" [actually becomes miffed now!] "I don't do 'dog 
>> impressions' [!], Mr. McFee!"
>> 
>> ;-)


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Apr 11 14:12:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2483337 of soc.culture.usa
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Obama Laments His Inability To Speak Austrian
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
 wrote:

>On Apr 8, 10:34 pm, Lonestar  wrote:
>> Dink wrote:
>> > There s a lot of I don t know what the term is inAustrian
>> > wheeling and dealing, and people are pursuing their interests, and
>> > everybody has their own particular issues and their own particular
>> > politics, he said in response to anAustrianreporter s question.
>>
>> LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> He is a Dip Shit!
>> Robert(Tx)
>
>If he had known the difference, how do you think would he have known
>it?
>
>(not every ivy league minority knows about basic Central E.U.
>standards)

That really is pathetic. Americans seem to know or understand
practically nothing that happens beyond their front porch. These are
the same people that run around the world murdering millions to impose
their ignorant notions on the rest of the world.

There is no such thing as Austrian, since Austria has been
continuously part of Germany from the 9th century to the 19th century
and then off and on thereafter. Austrians, like the bulk of the Swiss,
are German-speaking and always have been.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:14 EDT 2009
Article: 2007491 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:47:25 -0400, Roy Estrada 
wrote:

>Topaz wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:00:17 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>I proved what I had claimed. You just post rhetoric like your dead
>>>friend Goebbels.
>> 
>> 
>>  You only proved you have your head up a Jews aft end.
>
>
>What has Hitler and Goebbles personaly done for YOU lately?
>
>I mean after all, being as they both committed suicide and all before 
>you were born, what have they done for you, besides being known by the 
>entire educated world that knows they were both sick in the head?

Anybody who opposes Anglo-American world domination must be sick, at
least according to the standard Anglo-American propaganda. Roosevelt
was at least as sick as Hitler and Goebbels. Roosevelt was physically,
mentally, and spiritually diseased.

>
>Why do YOU love the retarded, Topaz?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:14 EDT 2009
Article: 2007492 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:08:40 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Apr 11, 11:08 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:59:57 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 7, 8:53 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Apr 6, 8:37 pm, Tim Miller 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Topaz wrote:
>> >> > >   German leaders beleived in death before dishonor.
>>
>> >> > No, they didn't. Like you, they didn't even understand
>> >> > the DEFINITION of honor.
>>
>> >> That's a blatant lie.  If you want to see who is dishonorable take a
>> >> look at what the Americans did to the DEF's.  Hiroshima, Nagasaki,
>> >> Dresden.  But you know the score.
>>
>> >Hard to see what was dishonorable about them.  Hiroshima was a major
>> >military center and Nagasaki was an industrial center devoted to
>> >manufacturing weapons.
>>
>> Even if your claims about the two cities were true, and there is
>> little evidence that they are,
>
>There is lots of evidence that they are.  Ignoring reality doesn't
>make it go away.
>
>
>
>
>> it wouldn't justify the civilian
>> atrocity that the Americans put together.
>
>Attacks on military targets are not "civilian atrocities".
>
>
>
>
>> > And we were at war with Japan.
>>
>> So? That justifies civilian atrocities, does it?
>
>No.  It justifies attacks on military targets.

A whole city is never a military target. By your stupid model a
foreign enemy could find a revolver under a mattress in Brooklyn and
argue that this find justifies the total destruction of the USA and
its 300 million people. You're a typical fucking American fool.

>
>
>
>
>> >Dresden was burned by the UK.
>>
>> Actually it was an Anglo-American joint effort of senseless
>> destruction.
>
>The firestorm that destroyed the city and killed most of the civilians
>was caused (intentionally) by the UK.
>
>US bombers had nothing to do with the firestorm.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2007493 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:54:14 -0500, Topaz 
wrote:

>
>"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima
>and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan.
>The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being
>the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the
>barbarians of the Dark Ages."
>Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
>Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II

This is probably too complicated for the fucking American fool
(Hiroshima fables) who apparently rejoices in American war crimes. It
is no wonder that people around the world rejoice at the sight of dead
Americans.

>
>
>"Nagasaki is famous in the history of Japanese Christianity. Not only
>was it the site of the largest Christian church in the Orient, St.
>Mary's Cathedral, but it also had the largest concentration of
>baptized Christians in all of Japan. It was the city where the
>legendary Jesuit missionary, Francis Xavier, established a mission
>church in 1549, a Christian community which thrived and multiplied for
>several generations until, in the early 1600s, it became the target of
>brutal Japanese Imperial persecutions. Within 50 years of the planting
>of Xaviar's mission church, it was a capital crime to be a Christian.
>The Japanese Christians who refused to recant their beliefs suffered
>ostracism, horrific torture and even crucifixions similar to the Roman
>persecutions in the first three centuries of Christianity. After the
>reign of terror was over, it appeared to all observers that
>Christianity had been stamped out. 
>However, 250 years later, in the 1850s, after the coercive gunboat
>diplomacy of Commodore Perry forced open an offshore island for
>American trade purposes, it was discovered that there were still
>thousands of baptized Christians in Nagasaki, living their faith in a
>catacomb existence, completely unknown to the government which
>immediately started another purge. But because of international
>pressure, the persecutions were soon stopped, and Nagasaki
>Christianity came up from the underground. And by 1917, with no help
>from the government, the Japanese Christian community had organized
>and, after decades of work, built the massive St. Mary's Cathedral, in
>the Urakami River Valley district. 
>Now it turned out, in the mystery of good and evil, that St. Mary's
>Cathedral was one of the landmarks that the Bock's Car bombardier had
>been briefed on, and, looking through his bomb site over Nagasaki that
>day, he identified the cathedral, ordered the drop, and, at 11:02 am,
>Nagasaki Christianity was carbonized, then vaporized, in a scorching,
>radioactive fireball. And so the persecuted, vibrant, faithful center
>of Japanese Christianity became ground zero, and what Japanese
>Imperialism couldn't do in 200 years of persecution, American
>Christians did in 9 seconds; the entire worshipping community of
>Nagasaki was wiped out."
>http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/pre-cold-war/hiroshima-nagasaki/article-kohls-gary_2001-08-09.htm
>
>http://www.ihr.org/     www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/    
>
>http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>
>http://heretical.com/    


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2007494 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Apr 11, 1:54 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>> "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima
>> and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan.
>> The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being
>> the first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the
>> barbarians of the Dark Ages."
>> Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
>> Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II
>
>If Japan was so ready to surrender, it is their own fault for waiting
>until we had nuked them twice before they went ahead and asked to
>surrender.

Perhaps the USA needs to be nuked off the earth's surface? A world
free of the disgusting USA would be a much better place. It is
probably the most evil political entity ever to exist in human
history.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2007495 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:37:21 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>I posted is what first did hear in Nuremberg in 1945 and he calls me a liar. 
>Certainly according to his mentality must be a liar. With we have definitely 
>someone who opens his mouth without engaging his brain.

For this retarded jackass, anybody who has opinions that differ from
his is a liar, fool, neo-Nazi, etc. etc.

McFee is just an ignorant vulgarian who is best ignored.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:53c1u4h3kl62lh3rl2jb0617geciftg365@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:56:04 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Now this is something what confuses me. Looks like you do not even know 
>>>how
>>>your system works. What we are looking at are always one sided version of
>>>histories. Certainly every effort is made made make sure no one gets to 
>>>hear
>>>the German version of world war II. Look at as example how the American
>>>system work. Every they start, instigate, manipulate a war they are many
>>>headlines of rhetoric taken place. World War 2 and why the germans startet
>>>were all openly printed in the British and German news papers. To ovoid 
>>>any
>>>questioning or controversy the Germans today are not allowed to reprint 
>>>what
>>>was printed in the news papers from 1918 till 1945. it is the purpose of
>>>this to keep in the dark and intentionally to prevent any controversies.
>>>This is what I call manipulating histories and I consider this has been 
>>>done
>>>intentionally.
>>
>> There isn't much point to trying to converse with McFee. The man is a
>> moron. Use your newsreader's filter to put McFee in the garbage bin
>> where he belongs. I should have done that months ago, but kept hoping
>> that the man actually had a brain. He has shown clearly that he
>> doesn't and that his non-contributions to this newsgroup will
>> continue. My time is too valuable to waste on his garbage posts, so I
>> will no longer see them unless somebody else replies to him.
>>
>> I see that he is already babbling about people running away. I haven't
>> run away, I have just put him and his trash in the garbage bin where
>> it actually belongs.
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>news:5hSDl.119494$Yx2.117706@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> On 4/10/2009 6:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:03:14 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/7/2009 9:54 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:38:29 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:30:02 -0400, in
>>>>>>>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany
>>>>>>>>>>> basically started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths into
>>>>>>>>>>> shadow.
>>>>>>>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>>>>>>> The German government archives and the writings of several dozen
>>>>>>>>> authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest
>>>>>>>>> rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred
>>>>>>>>> after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians, 
>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>> almost half a million children under 14, but the immediate postwar
>>>>>>>>> artificial allied starvation program killed
>>>>>>>>>  almost 3 million people, and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing
>>>>>>>>> killed another several millions in the eastern provinces. Of the
>>>>>>>>> original population of 14 million in the eastern provinces, only 10
>>>>>>>>> million survived. Dr. Konrad Adenauer, the first postwar 
>>>>>>>>> chancellor,
>>>>>>>>> estimated the losses in the east as high as six million. The allies
>>>>>>>>> arranged for a
>>>>>>>>>  reign of terror against ethnic Germans who were not official
>>>>>>>>>  German citizens, and the death toll among them went into the
>>>>>>>>>  millions also.
>>>>>>>> I have never heard any of this.  Do you have references?
>>>>>>> I have a library of several dozen books on the topic. Perhaps you
>>>>>>>  should try doing a bit of reading so you actually know something
>>>>>>>  about the topic before attempting to engage people in discussions
>>>>>>> where, by your own admission, you know and understand
>>>>>>>  very little. What you haven't heard of is not my problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty hard for me to be aware of something you made up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you should try to understand that your unsubstantiated
>>>>>> allegations are not worth jackshit and are hereby dismissed.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're a silly turd, McFee. It matters not what you dismiss or reject
>>>>>  since the truth will stand and your lies will vanish. It isn't up to
>>>>>  me. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion with people on an
>>>>>  historical topic and your uninvited meddling is starting to annoy.
>>>>
>>>> Tough.
>>>>
>>>>> You clearly know nothing about Germany or its people. You are just a
>>>>>  narrow-minded hater and bigot that is spreading his poison on this
>>>>> newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>> I have forgotten more about Germany than you know.  I also happen to
>>>> deal in the truth, something of which you are ignorant.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Please do me the favour of never again responding to one of my posts.
>>>>
>>>> Please go fuck yourself.
>>>>
>>>>> They are not intended for you and I do not seek your opinion on this or
>>>>> any other topic. In plain language, fuck off.
>>>>
>>>> I will respond to whatever I wish.  If you choose to run away, like you
>>>> gutless swine are inclined to so, be my guest.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Gord McFee
>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>
>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2007497 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:29:14 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Basically I would say you are at the wrong track. My posting basically was 
>> we have not see any replies from him in the public media. 
>
>The public media is profits driven. David Irving, thoroughly discredited,
>is no longer a profit-generating center.
>
>> How much good will 
>> his website be for people who have no computer.
>
>Most people own or have access to a computer nowadays. Anyone desiring to
>know what David Irving is up to need to nothing more than Hoogle his name.
>On the other hand, he does not interest people n he manner he did ten
>years ago. He is a has-been, or a never-was.

His books are far better written than anything I've seen from that
American jackass Lipstadt or the pseudo-historian Shirer or his
fellow-traveller and anti-German bigot Goldhagen whose book is total
racist drivel and hate-speech.

>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2007499 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:39:38 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1104092029140001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Truthseeker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Basically I would say you are at the wrong track. My posting basically 
>>> was
>>> we have not see any replies from him in the public media.
>>
>> The public media is profits driven. David Irving, thoroughly discredited,
>> is no longer a profit-generating center.
>
>So is the holocaust industry how many more centuries will screw the puplic 
>to make money.

Slime is the standard technique of the holocaust™ industry. Even our
own right-wing fanatic Harper is using this disgusting technique to
defame and discredit his political opponents. Harper has nothing of
his own to contribute, so he slimes his opponents much the same as our
resident holo-kooks who contribute nothing to this newsgroup but like
to heap abuse on anybody who does not totally accept their fables.

>kk
>
>>
>>> How much good will
>>> his website be for people who have no computer.
>>
>> Most people own or have access to a computer nowadays. Anyone desiring to
>> know what David Irving is up to need to nothing more than Hoogle his name.
>> On the other hand, he does not interest people n he manner he did ten
>> years ago. He is a has-been, or a never-was.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2007500 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <9o52u4del88pvigshhiuu1jut84723oqe1@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:10:30 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <06d1u4d1fktfs6o8jh9oiouj7fe50jufa9@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:14:03 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>
>> >> >>>Hat er im Gericht stets gewinnen?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"Gewonnen" heißt es
>> 
>> That is a pretty elementary mistake for somebody who claims to be a
>> resident of Darmstadt. Perhaps it isn't the Darmstadt located in
>> Hessen, but some obscure desert location in the Ignorant States of
>> America?
>
>Some people in this world get so involved in creating content that they
>neglect issues of form. The David Irving types would argue that 0.1% of
>German texts produced between 19950 and 2000 contain this or similar
>forms, and since no order from Institut für deutsche Sprache expressly
>declaring the form in question to be a mistake exists, it cannot be simply
>dismissed as erroneous. 

LOL

Even in English, there is a definite difference between the present
and the past tense. The arsehole from Darmstadt screwed up the past
participle, which is something that even an elementary school pupil in
Germany is unlikely to do.

>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2007501 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:17:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Now this is a farce Eugene. You know Germans have to be political correct 
>when the make a public statement. It is the holocaust industry who has them 
>by the balls. If they do not comply the will eventually end up in jail.

Kurt, poor "Doc" Tony is merely guilty of murdering the past
participle. It isn't that serious, but it identifies him as an alien
in Germany. Given his negative attitude towards Germany and Germans,
perhaps he should fuck off and go back to where he originated.


>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1104091910300001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article <06d1u4d1fktfs6o8jh9oiouj7fe50jufa9@4ax.com>,
>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:14:03 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>>
>>> >> >>>Hat er im Gericht stets gewinnen?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>"Gewonnen" heißt es
>>>
>>> That is a pretty elementary mistake for somebody who claims to be a
>>> resident of Darmstadt. Perhaps it isn't the Darmstadt located in
>>> Hessen, but some obscure desert location in the Ignorant States of
>>> America?
>>
>> Some people in this world get so involved in creating content that they
>> neglect issues of form. The David Irving types would argue that 0.1% of
>> German texts produced between 19950 and 2000 contain this or similar
>> forms, and since no order from Institut für deutsche Sprache expressly
>> declaring the form in question to be a mistake exists, it cannot be simply
>> dismissed as erroneous.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2007507 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:53:15 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>This web page does not exist.

Have you ever received anything useful from the airhead calling itself
"I'll always be"?

>kk
>
>"I'll Always Be 11/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-CE3D66.11262611042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Basically I would say you are at the wrong track. My posting basically 
>>> was
>>> we have not see any replies from him in the public media.
>>
>> Because you haven't looked. Here are
>> some of his public comments regarding
>> his Libel Action against The Observer.
>>
>> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Observer/index
>> .html
>>
>>
>>
>>> How much good will his website be for people who have no computer.
>>
>> How much good will newspapers be for
>> people who don't read them?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>> news:holman-1104091917370001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> > In article , "Truthseeker"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> How is that website i do not see any new postings there.
>>> >
>>> > You didn't look hard enough. At the bottom of the page giving the Great
>>> > One's speaking schedule it says:
>>> >
>>> > Source: http://www.focal.org/speaks/index.html
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> > Advance Notice: In May 2009 David Irving will speak in Oslo and
>>> > Lillehammer, Norway
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > Auch eine blinde Sau findet mal eine Eichel.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2007508 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert"
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:47:11 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>So tell us why he should be a holocaust expert it is the Jews who make up 
>all the stories. All he does is questioning it and so do many others 
>including me.

Asking difficult questions is heresy, and will cause the industry
supporters to seek to shut you up by hook or by crook.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:grqnn8$gaf$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>>   All the following are statements Irving made during
>> the libel trial he initiated (and lost) against Lipstadt
>> and Penguin:
>>
>> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day001.htm
>>
>>   "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor
>> have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust."
>>
>>   "I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but
>> I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an
>> expert on the Holocaust, my Lord."
>>
>>   "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have
>> said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written
>> no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually
>> because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned
>> about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise
>> and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."
>>
>> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm:
>>
>>   "Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton,
>> that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say
>> would be a figure without any value whatsoever."
>>
>>   "Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka,
>> Belzec and Chelmno?"
>>
>>   "A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert."
>>
>> RJ. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2007567 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts
 wrote:

>On Apr 11, 5:50 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> There you go the Americans knew how evictee it was and jet they did use a
>> second for their own satisfaction.
>
>The reason Japan was nuked a second time is because they did not offer
>to surrender after the first nuke.
>
>The reason Japan was not nuked a third time is because they
>surrendered after the second nuke.
>
>Japan was pretty lucky.  After Nagasaki, a bunch of military leaders
>(if I recall, it was LeMay, Spaatz, Nimitz, and Twining) pressed
>Washington to nuke Tokyo next, and Washington was considering their
>request favorably.  Hirohito very nearly got an up-close look at PIKA-
>DON.

LOL

It only goes to show that utter stupidity seems to be a requirement to
be a U.S. militarist.

John of Patmos, writing in Revelation, describes the USA (the latter
day hegemon) as "the mother of all whores and of every evil on earth"
and that it will totally perish in one hour. It couldn't happen to a
nicer bunch.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2007568 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans - Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:43:00 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Reminds me of the Yankees that come here for moos hunting. If they would 
>have it their way they would use machine guns. And after a bottle of candian 
>beer they fall asleep.

Actually, most Americans are OK, but fools such as Hiroshima Fables
are pretty hard to take.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Hiroshima Facts"  wrote in message 
>news:0d4d3563-8f4f-471c-89c9-e52e6f207623@f17g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 11, 5:50 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>>> There you go the Americans knew how evictee it was and jet they did use a
>>> second for their own satisfaction.
>>
>> The reason Japan was nuked a second time is because they did not offer
>> to surrender after the first nuke.
>>
>> The reason Japan was not nuked a third time is because they
>> surrendered after the second nuke.
>>
>> Japan was pretty lucky.  After Nagasaki, a bunch of military leaders
>> (if I recall, it was LeMay, Spaatz, Nimitz, and Twining) pressed
>> Washington to nuke Tokyo next, and Washington was considering their
>> request favorably.  Hirohito very nearly got an up-close look at PIKA-
>> DON. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2007570 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:      <5hSDl.119494$Yx2.117706@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com>  <53c1u4h3kl62lh3rl2jb0617geciftg365@4ax.com>   <6Y8El.22666$PH1.2601@edtnps82>
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:36:50 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>I sure looks that way. Geifern kann er aus besser wie alle anderen.

Was er schreibt ist 99% Unsinn.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:sv42u4hg1mpqracivr557ajjsk25l4jlni@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:37:21 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I posted is what first did hear in Nuremberg in 1945 and he calls me a 
>>>liar.
>>>Certainly according to his mentality must be a liar. With we have 
>>>definitely
>>>someone who opens his mouth without engaging his brain.
>>
>> For this retarded jackass, anybody who has opinions that differ from
>> his is a liar, fool, neo-Nazi, etc. etc.
>>
>> McFee is just an ignorant vulgarian who is best ignored.
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:53c1u4h3kl62lh3rl2jb0617geciftg365@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:56:04 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Now this is something what confuses me. Looks like you do not even know
>>>>>how
>>>>>your system works. What we are looking at are always one sided version 
>>>>>of
>>>>>histories. Certainly every effort is made made make sure no one gets to
>>>>>hear
>>>>>the German version of world war II. Look at as example how the American
>>>>>system work. Every they start, instigate, manipulate a war they are many
>>>>>headlines of rhetoric taken place. World War 2 and why the germans 
>>>>>startet
>>>>>were all openly printed in the British and German news papers. To ovoid
>>>>>any
>>>>>questioning or controversy the Germans today are not allowed to reprint
>>>>>what
>>>>>was printed in the news papers from 1918 till 1945. it is the purpose of
>>>>>this to keep in the dark and intentionally to prevent any controversies.
>>>>>This is what I call manipulating histories and I consider this has been
>>>>>done
>>>>>intentionally.
>>>>
>>>> There isn't much point to trying to converse with McFee. The man is a
>>>> moron. Use your newsreader's filter to put McFee in the garbage bin
>>>> where he belongs. I should have done that months ago, but kept hoping
>>>> that the man actually had a brain. He has shown clearly that he
>>>> doesn't and that his non-contributions to this newsgroup will
>>>> continue. My time is too valuable to waste on his garbage posts, so I
>>>> will no longer see them unless somebody else replies to him.
>>>>
>>>> I see that he is already babbling about people running away. I haven't
>>>> run away, I have just put him and his trash in the garbage bin where
>>>> it actually belongs.
>>>>
>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:5hSDl.119494$Yx2.117706@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> On 4/10/2009 6:15 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:03:14 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2009 9:54 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:38:29 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:30:02 -0400, in
>>>>>>>>>> , Johannes von 
>>>>>>>>>> Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:37:22 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is pretty much common knowledge that the dying in Germany
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically started on May 8, 1945 putting all the war deaths 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shadow.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really?  What is your support for that silly statement?
>>>>>>>>>>> The German government archives and the writings of several dozen
>>>>>>>>>>> authors, plus the experiences of people I know personally attest
>>>>>>>>>>> rather clearly that the bulk of German population losses occurred
>>>>>>>>>>> after May 8, 1945. The war losses were trivial by comparison.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The allied terror bombing killed about a million civilians,
>>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>>> almost half a million children under 14, but the immediate 
>>>>>>>>>>> postwar
>>>>>>>>>>> artificial allied starvation program killed
>>>>>>>>>>>  almost 3 million people, and the postwar allied ethnic cleansing
>>>>>>>>>>> killed another several millions in the eastern provinces. Of the
>>>>>>>>>>> original population of 14 million in the eastern provinces, only 
>>>>>>>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>>>>> million survived. Dr. Konrad Adenauer, the first postwar
>>>>>>>>>>> chancellor,
>>>>>>>>>>> estimated the losses in the east as high as six million. The 
>>>>>>>>>>> allies
>>>>>>>>>>> arranged for a
>>>>>>>>>>>  reign of terror against ethnic Germans who were not official
>>>>>>>>>>>  German citizens, and the death toll among them went into the
>>>>>>>>>>>  millions also.
>>>>>>>>>> I have never heard any of this.  Do you have references?
>>>>>>>>> I have a library of several dozen books on the topic. Perhaps you
>>>>>>>>>  should try doing a bit of reading so you actually know something
>>>>>>>>>  about the topic before attempting to engage people in discussions
>>>>>>>>> where, by your own admission, you know and understand
>>>>>>>>>  very little. What you haven't heard of is not my problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's pretty hard for me to be aware of something you made up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should try to understand that your unsubstantiated
>>>>>>>> allegations are not worth jackshit and are hereby dismissed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're a silly turd, McFee. It matters not what you dismiss or reject
>>>>>>>  since the truth will stand and your lies will vanish. It isn't up to
>>>>>>>  me. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion with people on an
>>>>>>>  historical topic and your uninvited meddling is starting to annoy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You clearly know nothing about Germany or its people. You are just a
>>>>>>>  narrow-minded hater and bigot that is spreading his poison on this
>>>>>>> newsgroup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have forgotten more about Germany than you know.  I also happen to
>>>>>> deal in the truth, something of which you are ignorant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please do me the favour of never again responding to one of my posts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please go fuck yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are not intended for you and I do not seek your opinion on this 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> any other topic. In plain language, fuck off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will respond to whatever I wish.  If you choose to run away, like 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> gutless swine are inclined to so, be my guest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Gord McFee
>>>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2007575 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:09:47 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>really the facts are anyone who does not believe in your version of history 
>is a holocaust denier. Do not forget it did come with your mothers milk and 
>has become rancid.

I see from your post that the sock-puppet henry is still in action
babbling his nonsense. He doesn't appear to have recovered from his
anencephaly.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"TallHenry"  wrote in message 
>news:grr6mg$3nn$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>> For this retarded jackass, anybody who has opinions that differ from
>>> his is a liar, fool, neo-Nazi, etc. etc.
>>
>>         Why don't you shut your cocksucking hole,  Skaliks?
>>
>>         By the way -- did you lose the earring,  you deranged,
>> ugly,  genetically defective little freak?
>>
>>         And how's the old ribcage doing?
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2007576 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:31:06 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Well Gord how does your system work ???. I have never in modern time seen so 
>much about intimidating others who are questioning your holocaust. History 
>should be an open book and also a suspect for securitizing. Intimidating and 
>victimizing all other who did disagree with you people and make them 
>suspicious about you and you holocaust. How many more decades and centuries 
>will you victimize other. Only the naive believe in you and what you 
>represent.

I for one, have put mcfee into the garbage pail, a place he should
have gone long ago. He is only here to annoy and he contributes
nothing.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:inj2u454jk6mv215a0s83v8go8noq2mt25@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:06:33 -0400, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:37:21 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I posted is what first did hear in Nuremberg in 1945 and he calls me a 
>>> >liar.
>>> >Certainly according to his mentality must be a liar. With we have 
>>> >definitely
>>> >someone who opens his mouth without engaging his brain.
>>>
>>> For this retarded jackass, anybody who has opinions that differ from
>>> his is a liar, fool, neo-Nazi, etc. etc.
>>
>> It was not I who called Kurt a liar, moron.
>>
>>> McFee is just an ignorant vulgarian who is best ignored.
>>
>> Run away, denier trashboy coward,
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2007578 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: freed from holocaust denial
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:22:44 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:4o0st4pi0bs96krsbrkkuirab8rd7qlp78@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:32:04 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:21dkt45qp3pm7ehgh0lbsjqs08uo5l7v0v@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:55:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 5, 1:21 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:05:24 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >news:ds5at45sifa63mni4nf4aet17jc1fq6okr@4ax.com...
>>>>>> >> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:57:17 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>> Yes, but the laws would have to be changed first, followed with
>>>>>> >>>pardons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Judges would not be able to overturn those convictions on there
>>>>>> >>>own; there is no legal protection of freedom of speech in those
>>>>>> >>>places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> In Germany, supposedly there actually IS freedom of speech and
>>>>>> >> freedom
>>>>>> >> of opinion, so the propaganda laws are probably unconstitutional,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >As to "probably unconstitiutional", you could try actually reading 
>>>>>> >the
>>>>>> >constitution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Article 5, Paragraph 2 of the Basic Law details the limitations on
>>>>>> >speech
>>>>>> >and expression:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >"These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general
>>>>>> >laws, in
>>>>>> >provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to
>>>>>> >personal
>>>>>> >honor. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the basic rights of Germans are qualified by the ending phrase "or
>>>>>> as provided otherwise by law." In other words, Germans have no rights
>>>>>> at all, or at least not significantly more than those they enjoyed
>>>>>> under the constitution in place when Hitler was in power where the
>>>>>> list of basic universal rights was also qualified by "unless we
>>>>>> legislate otherwise.".
>>>>>   The constitution does protect against speech against unilateral
>>>>>executive power.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Speech can only be criminalized by the legislative process, not by
>>>>>executive order.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry Mike, but you have Germany confused with the USA. In the USA,
>>>> Presidents are practically dictators who can apparently overrule
>>>> legislatures. No German Chancellor has ever had that power. Power
>>>> (Imperium) in Germany rests with the Reichstag/Bundestag and has for
>>>> centuries. Even the Emperor wasn't in a position to just do as he
>>>> wished, quite unlike the American president who behaves like Louis XIV
>>>> with his famous comment "I am the state".
>>>>
>>>> The fact remains, however, that the various basic rights of Germans
>>>> are all qualified and limited with the line "pursuant to a law".
>>>
>>>Which means that the limitations are accepted in the constitution.
>>>
>>>This means, simply, that you are agreeing that the limitations are in fact
>>>constitutional.
>>
>> No, I'm saying that the civil rights "protections" in the Basic Law
>> are meaningless and self-contradictory. The same phrases were in the
>> German consitution during the NS period. They didn't protect anybody
>> then, and they don't protect anybody now.
>
>So, what you're really saying is that you don't understand what the term 
>"constitutional" means.
>
>*All *countries on this planet with human populations have limits on speech.
>
>*All* countries with constitutions enshrining rights of free speech also 
>recognise that there are limits because of harm that can be caused by 
>unrestricted speech.
>
>These limitations are not self-contradictory, and the limits do not render 
>the constitutional guarantee meaningless.

If you bill something as "inviolable" and then put restrictions in the
same sentence, then it is self-contradictory.

The actual application is even worse. That much free speech one had
even during the NS period in that one could say anything one wanted as
long as it didn't disagree with the opinions of the powers that be.
Hitler was an example of a mcfee-democracy. In a mcfee-democracy you
can say anything you want as long as it doesn't contradict mcfee.

>
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Typical is Article 10: Secrecy of the mail and secrecy of posts and
>>>> telecommunications are inviolable. Restrictions may be ordered only
>>>> pursuant to a law.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly, their concept of the term "inviolable" is rather different
>>>> from mine. In other words, the secrecy of the mail, etc. is NOT
>>>> inviolable. The article on freedom of opinion, freedom of the press,
>>>> etc. is all written in the same style. In other words, none of those
>>>> freedoms exist in Germany since all of them are at the caprice of the
>>>> German authorities.
>>>
>>>Not by caprice, but rather from deliberation by elected representatives.
>>>If the German people didn't like the results, they wouldn't re-elect those
>>>representatives, and would elect ones that act to their will.
>>>
>>>You've already agreed that the limitations are constitutional, despite
>>>having first said that they aren't.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2007579 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>
>There is now, Kurt.
>
>You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>
>It's now called "freedom of expression".
>
>> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>
>Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?

What do you call the mcvay/mcfee system of threats, intimidation,
smears, and demonization if not attempts to silence people and rob
them of their "freedom of expression"?

>
>The problem for Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" in Canada arises when 
>they go past discussing the Holocaust and start promoting hatred.
>
>That's when they risk breaking Canadian laws.
>
>> Honesty you have never known.
>
>Try to keep up, Kurt.
>
>-pk
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:v7idnTozI_Oc233UnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>> news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>
>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>
>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>
>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the
>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>
>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>
>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>
>>> Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>
>>> The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen 
>>> years ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that 
>>> he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>
>>> So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.
>>>
>>> Do try to keep up with the news.
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - these are
>>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that 
>>>>>the
>>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if 
>>>>>the
>>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>>convicted.
>>>>>
>>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that 
>>>>>what he
>>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that 
>>>>>Zundel
>>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>>generally understood.
>>>>>
>>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution
>>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications 
>>>>>were
>>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by 
>>>>>it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>>>the
>>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are
>>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against 
>>>>>an
>>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a 
>>>>>group
>>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to 
>>>>>gain
>>>>>passing grades.
>>>>>
>>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an
>>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>>
>>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged 
>>>>>with,
>>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>>
>>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers 
>>>>>and
>>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for 
>>>>>historical
>>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in 
>>>>>public,
>>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust
>>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their
>>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements 
>>>>>that
>>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>>
>>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to 
>>>>>> believe
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no 
>>>>>charges
>>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't 
>>>>>illegal -
>>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable 
>>>>>group.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence 
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is 
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for
>>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that 
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published 
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass 
>>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:21 EDT 2009
Article: 2007580 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:34:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:gkc1u4pmiledt7cda537gkd5pcrb2fjsvl@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:21:47 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>
>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>
>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>
>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the
>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>
>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>
>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>
>>>Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>
>>>The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen 
>>>years
>>>ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that he had a
>>>constitutional right to lie.
>>
>> Why do you suppose that this archaic piece of legislation was struck
>> down in 1992?
>
>Because Zundel convinced the Supreme Court Justices that falsehoods are a 
>valid form of expression.

You are distorting the court's decision, but then that seems to be
standard fare for the mcvay/mcfee tribe.

>
>You can read the details as to how and why in the decision, yourself.
>
>> Could it be because of its fraudulent use as a
>> harassment tool by Sabina and her remembrance committee?
>
>Nope.   At this pont, I suggest that it might be a better idea for you to 
>read the decision rather than continue to make things up about it.
>
>In fact, the striking down of that law rather undercuts the Holocaust denier 
>and "revisionist" claim that the Canadian legal system was, or is, "run by 
>Jews".

They need to pay some lip service to the constitution and the charter
of rights or people will start to become cynical.

>
>>>
>>>So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.
>>
>> The Zundel fiasco brought about its demise.
>
>But you *just said* that is still there!

It was at the time we were talking about, not 2009.

>
>> This archaic legislation
>> can no longer be used as a harassment tool to intimidate people into
>> paying lip service to holocaustT orthodoxy.
>
>And you don't even notice that you are now claiming exactly the opposite of 
>what was in your previous post.
>
>Good one.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Do try to keep up with the news.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> - these are
>>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that 
>>>>>the
>>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if
>>>>>the
>>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>>convicted.
>>>>>
>>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that 
>>>>>what
>>>>>he
>>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that
>>>>>Zundel
>>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>>generally understood.
>>>>>
>>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution
>>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications 
>>>>>were
>>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by 
>>>>>it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about
>>>>>the
>>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are
>>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against 
>>>>>an
>>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a
>>>>>group
>>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to 
>>>>>gain
>>>>>passing grades.
>>>>>
>>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an
>>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>>
>>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged
>>>>>with,
>>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>>
>>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers
>>>>>and
>>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for
>>>>>historical
>>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in 
>>>>>public,
>>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust
>>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their
>>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements 
>>>>>that
>>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>>
>>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to
>>>>>> believe
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no 
>>>>>charges
>>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't
>>>>>illegal -
>>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable 
>>>>>group.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is 
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for
>>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass 
>>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2007581 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:39:46 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:06vst4tia974kl0p3t9bh736h05n879g3n@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:35:19 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:m14st4l4munbv42cno649dvtm3t0n45a03@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:52:14 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is a
>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and 
>>>>>> corrupt
>>>>>> that your clan is.
>>>>>
>>>>>Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>>>>>material
>>>>>he admitted was false.
>>>>
>>>> We have only your word for that, and your word isn't worth much.
>>>
>>>Actually you don't have my words at all.    Read the transcripts.
>>>
>>>There you will find that what we have are Zundel's words, in the form of 
>>>his
>>>appeal grounds, which asserted a constitutional right to lie.
>>
>> The Charter of Rights and Freedoms contains a fair bit of material,
>> but the "right to lie" isn't among them.
>
>There's a line in a movie that I rather like.  You are "digging in the wrong 
>place".
>
>You won't find it in the Criminal Code, either.
>
>> You are fabricating this out
>> of thin air or putting your own airheaded interpretation on something
>> that means something else entirely.
>
>Nope.  I'm using the Supreme Court decision.  How many times have I said 
>this in this very thread, now?

No matter how many times you say it, it is still false.

>
>And to use a line allegedly from Chuck Yeager, "you're kinda pokey, 
>ain'tcha?".
>
>-pk
>
>
>>>
>>>He asserted a right to lie since he could not convince rational people 
>>>that
>>>he actually believed that the Holocaust did not occur, more or less as
>>>understood.
>>>
>>>A person who believes that he is speaking the truth does not have to 
>>>assert
>>>a right to lie, and an honest person who believed they were speaking the
>>>truth would be offended by the suggestion of using such a defence.
>>>
>>>Clearly, Zundel was neither honest or speaking the truth.
>>>
>>>He could not successfully use the simple defence for the False News 
>>>charge:
>>>that he actually believed what he was saying.   *Two* juries found that
>>>Zundel DOES believe that the Holocaust occurred, more or less as is 
>>>commonly
>>>understood, and that he was publishing material he knew to be false.
>>>
>>>Since his defence was not credible, he had to go for the truth, which is
>>>that he knew the material was false.
>>>
>>>And it's also known that he made a fortune publishing this material, some 
>>>of
>>>which was sold to countries where he knew it was illegal (Germany).   He
>>>knew that as a German citizen he was breaking German law.
>>>
>>>Read the transcripts and the judgements.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for 
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> own reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually 
>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that he
>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published was
>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists. 
>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere the
>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not 
>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:22 EDT 2009
Article: 2007583 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:42:20 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Don't blame someone for your own behaviour. You and Kenneth are both at the 
>same level of mentality. If you want the general public to trust then you 
>have to become more sincere.

"Doc" Tony is best left in the garbage bin where he belongs. He
generally has nothing much to say and his German texts sound like a
theatre of the absurd totally devoid of content.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Doc Tony"  wrote in message 
>news:JYCdnWXkL_wQo3zUnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@posted.localnet...
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:17:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Now this is a farce Eugene. You know Germans have to be political correct 
>>>>when the make a public statement. It is the holocaust industry who has 
>>>>them by the balls. If they do not comply the will eventually end up in 
>>>>jail.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kurt, poor "Doc" Tony is merely guilty of murdering the past
>>> participle. It isn't that serious, but it identifies him as an alien
>>> in Germany. Given his negative attitude towards Germany and Germans,
>>> perhaps he should fuck off and go back to where he originated.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's bad enough, Ebe, that you are reduced to using the poor boob Kurt 
>> Knoll as a sounding board for your dreck and drool, yet you continue to 
>> run and hide from me rather than do a one on one and see how you make out.
>>
>> As for my being an 'alien' in Germany and allegedly having a negative 
>> attitude toward the Volk, well, there are things you not privy to nor will 
>> you be that would make such a statement rather idiotic but then most of 
>> what you have to say is idiotic at the get-go.
>>
>> Grow a pair, Ebe, and let's do some one to one posting and stop hiding 
>> behind other posters to make rather cowardly 3rd party and cheap pot shots 
>> while using them as a handy shield while wimpering to an audience of one, 
>> Kurt, or possibly Istvan, which together with yourself form the core of 
>> the three losers since even 'stooges' would be an unfair form of upward 
>> mobility for all 3 of you. Join forces if you will with others of the same 
>> mentality as yourself and see how you make out posting to me directly. 
>> Hey, even befuddled Istvan has the cohones to take his public beatings but 
>> at least show up one to one to receive same. You opt to run and hide to 
>> the point where the 14EEE cleated track shoes begin to literally grow the 
>> faster you run away from me. Gord is correct in his assessment of you 
>> although I'd phrase it that you come off, by your actions, and your 
>> running/hiding notwithstanding, more like a bubble-snapping pre-teen 
>> Mädchen [girl] ... and a hysterically shrieking one at that.
>>
>>
>> Doc Tony
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> The Voice: "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"
>>
>>
>> Your call, Ebe, and other than your cloned "Germany Must Perish" mantra 
>> and Sylvia Stolz stoking.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>>>>news:holman-1104091910300001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>
>>>>>In article <06d1u4d1fktfs6o8jh9oiouj7fe50jufa9@4ax.com>,
>>>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:14:03 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>>>Holman) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hat er im Gericht stets gewinnen?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Gewonnen" heißt es
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is a pretty elementary mistake for somebody who claims to be a
>>>>>>resident of Darmstadt. Perhaps it isn't the Darmstadt located in
>>>>>>Hessen, but some obscure desert location in the Ignorant States of
>>>>>>America?
>>>>>
>>>>>Some people in this world get so involved in creating content that they
>>>>>neglect issues of form. The David Irving types would argue that 0.1% of
>>>>>German texts produced between 19950 and 2000 contain this or similar
>>>>>forms, and since no order from Institut für deutsche Sprache expressly
>>>>>declaring the form in question to be a mistake exists, it cannot be 
>>>>>simply
>>>>>dismissed as erroneous.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Eugene Holman
>>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:59:23 EDT 2009
Article: 2007584 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:36:04 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <9o52u4del88pvigshhiuu1jut84723oqe1@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:10:30 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Some people in this world get so involved in creating content that they
>> >neglect issues of form. The David Irving types would argue that 0.1% of
>> >German texts produced between 19950 and 2000 contain this or similar
>> >forms, and since no order from Institut für deutsche Sprache expressly
>> >declaring the form in question to be a mistake exists, it cannot be simply
>> >dismissed as erroneous. 
>> 
>> LOL
>> 
>> Even in English, there is a definite difference between the present
>> and the past tense. The arsehole from Darmstadt screwed up the past
>> participle, which is something that even an elementary school pupil in
>> Germany is unlikely to do.
>
>That is assuming that standard German is the only norm. 

In written work it is the ONLY norm and has been for over five
centuries.


>In southernmost
>Germany the participle *gewesen* gives way to *gesein*/*gsein*/*ksei*/,
>usually spelled *ksy* in Swiss German. German verbs are complex enough for
>several non-standard alternatives to exist, just as, indeed, in spoken
>Engish one often hears *I've goed* and * I seen*. Two hundred and fifty
>years ago the verb *to help* in English had the principal parts *help*,
>*holp*, *holpen*, so what is regarded as a mistake at one time might be
>the first stage in the development of the norm that will eventually
>replace it.
>
>Regards,
>Eugne Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:27 EDT 2009
Article: 2007992 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 09:12:08 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>
>>The De-Zionization of the American Mind
>>2006-08-20
>>
>>By Jean Bricmont
>>
>>Americans are constantly told that they have to defend themselves
>>against people who "hate them", but without understanding why they are
>>hated. 
>
>
>
>Kinda like Hitler the Half Wit told Germans the Jews were plotting
>against them, and what happened? The Germans almost got sent back to
>the Stone Age.

LOL

What have you been smoking, boy?

>
>_______________
>"'Who the half-wit who gave such idiotic orders?' I pointed out to
>[Hitler] that it was he himself who had done so. The minutes were
>brought and read aloud. After a few sentences Hitler broke off
>reading."
>                          - Panzer Leader, General Heinz Guderian
>                             http://preview.tinyurl.com/c7fz64


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2007993 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:00:14 -0500, Topaz 
wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:57:46 -0400, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>
>>Anybody who opposes Anglo-American world domination must be sick, at
>>least according to the standard Anglo-American propaganda. Roosevelt
>>was at least as sick as Hitler and Goebbels. Roosevelt was physically,
>>mentally, and spiritually diseased.
>
> The National Socialists were not into world domination. That is why
>they called themselves Nationalist and not inter-nationalist.

The "world conquest" spin is just allied war propaganda intended to
motivate their ignorant-of-the-world troops.

>
>"Precisely because we are nationally minded, for that very reason we
>have respect for the national feelings of other peoples. And our
>national pride does not mean we scorn other peoples, it means that we
>respect and love our own people. It is precisely the Internationalists
>who prevent peoples from coming to understand one another."
>Adolf Hitler  
>
>http://www.ihr.org/     www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/    
>
>http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>
>http://heretical.com/    


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:28 EDT 2009
Article: 2007994 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:09:44 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:pqeEl.22795$PH1.15253@edtnps82...
>> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>
>There is, now.

This "right" only exists in your imaginary world, not in the real
world of Canadian jurisprudence.

>
>Please pay attention, or are you just stuck on auto-repeat?
>
>> but it is everybody's right to
>> raise questions. Honesty you have never known.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:xuudnR7txONm_XzUnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>>>> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>>>
>>> There is now, Kurt.
>>>
>>> You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>>>
>>> It's now called "freedom of expression".
>>>
>>>> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>>>
>>> Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?
>>>
>>> The problem for Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" in Canada arises 
>>> when they go past discussing the Holocaust and start promoting hatred.
>>>
>>> That's when they risk breaking Canadian laws.
>>>
>>>> Honesty you have never known.
>>>
>>> Try to keep up, Kurt.
>>>
>>> -pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:v7idnTozI_Oc233UnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen 
>>>>> years ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that 
>>>>> he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in 
>>>>> Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do try to keep up with the news.
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - these are
>>>>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - 
>>>>>>>if the
>>>>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>>>>convicted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that 
>>>>>>>what he
>>>>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that 
>>>>>>>Zundel
>>>>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>>>>generally understood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the 
>>>>>>>Constitution
>>>>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications 
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by 
>>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion 
>>>>>>>about the
>>>>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions 
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred 
>>>>>>>against an
>>>>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a 
>>>>>>>group
>>>>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to 
>>>>>>>gain
>>>>>>>passing grades.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having 
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged 
>>>>>>>with,
>>>>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust 
>>>>>>>deniers and
>>>>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for 
>>>>>>>historical
>>>>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in 
>>>>>>>public,
>>>>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use 
>>>>>>>Holocaust
>>>>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in 
>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements 
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to 
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no 
>>>>>>>charges
>>>>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't 
>>>>>>>illegal -
>>>>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable 
>>>>>>>group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His 
>>>>>>>>> defence was
>>>>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from 
>>>>>>>>>>> promotiong
>>>>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> published was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Propa-sphere the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2007995 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:15:41 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>If you have anymore expression pleas let us know. Jews have always been 
>known as master liars.

I see that I'm not missing much with the mcfee rantings. It is a case
of same-old-same-old.

I'm hardly "anti-semitic", but mcfee definitely is an idiot. He has
never "debated", he has shouted at people and called them names but he
has never debated anything.

>kk
>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:nj64u41pnl9a6dabs721m3jnar88ih0rf5@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:21:51 -0400, in
>> <0kj3u4tqeuerre2n9ok7uvdrol26b76u7a@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>> >news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>>> >> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>>> >
>>> >There is now, Kurt.
>>> >
>>> >You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>>> >
>>> >It's now called "freedom of expression".
>>> >
>>> >> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>>> >
>>> >Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?
>>>
>>> What do you call the mcvay/mcfee system of threats, intimidation,
>>> smears, and demonization if not attempts to silence people and rob
>>> them of their "freedom of expression"?
>>
>> It's called rebutting your racist, antisemitic denier trashboy ravings
>> with facts, something you filth can't stand.  That is why most of you
>> run away, because you haven't got what it takes - either brains or
>> guts - to debate the issues.  Just like your Nazi heroes.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:29 EDT 2009
Article: 2007996 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <70e7u4trlia3bru0i5ein5g56o7hf86tdt@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:08:57 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:0kj3u4tqeuerre2n9ok7uvdrol26b76u7a@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>>>> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>>>
>>>There is now, Kurt.
>>>
>>>You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>>>
>>>It's now called "freedom of expression".
>>>
>>>> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>>>
>>>Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?
>>
>> What do you call the mcvay/mcfee system of threats, intimidation,
>> smears, and demonization if not attempts to silence people and rob
>> them of their "freedom of expression"?
>
>Nobody's attempting to silence you or rob you of your freedom of expression.
>
>Your own experience makes clear that your position is false - again.
>
>You're still posting, aren't you?

That is hardly thanks to mcfee/mcvay. If they had their way it would
all be different, and our democracy in Canada would be history.

>
>Since you're posting, nobody's silencing you.
>
>As to people pointing out the ludicrous errors and mendacious assertions you 
>make - that's their right, too.
>
>Don't like it?   Grow a spine.
>
>As they say, "Get tough, cupcake".
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>The problem for Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" in Canada arises when
>>>they go past discussing the Holocaust and start promoting hatred.
>>>
>>>That's when they risk breaking Canadian laws.
>>>
>>>> Honesty you have never known.
>>>
>>>Try to keep up, Kurt.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>> news:v7idnTozI_Oc233UnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen
>>>>> years ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that
>>>>> he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in 
>>>>> Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do try to keep up with the news.
>>>>>
>>>>> -pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - these are
>>>>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - 
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>>>>convicted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that
>>>>>>>what he
>>>>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that
>>>>>>>Zundel
>>>>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>>>>generally understood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the 
>>>>>>>Constitution
>>>>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by
>>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion 
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions 
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred 
>>>>>>>against
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a
>>>>>>>group
>>>>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to
>>>>>>>gain
>>>>>>>passing grades.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having 
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged
>>>>>>>with,
>>>>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust 
>>>>>>>deniers
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for
>>>>>>>historical
>>>>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in
>>>>>>>public,
>>>>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use 
>>>>>>>Holocaust
>>>>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in 
>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no
>>>>>>>charges
>>>>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't
>>>>>>>illegal -
>>>>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable
>>>>>>>group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His 
>>>>>>>>> defence
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from 
>>>>>>>>>>> promotiong
>>>>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> published
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Propa-sphere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:30 EDT 2009
Article: 2007997 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com>       <0kj3u4tqeuerre2n9ok7uvdrol26b76u7a@4ax.com> 
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On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:35:42 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <0kj3u4tqeuerre2n9ok7uvdrol26b76u7a@4ax.com>,
> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>> >news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>> >> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>> >
>> >There is now, Kurt.
>> >
>> >You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>> >
>> >It's now called "freedom of expression".
>> >
>> >> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>> >
>> >Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?
>> 
>> What do you call the mcvay/mcfee system of threats, intimidation,
>> smears, and demonization if not attempts to silence people and rob
>> them of their "freedom of expression"?
>> 
>
>The "mcvay/mefee system"?
>
>You mean like your buddy Cramer threatening to post personal information

That seems to be mcvay's specialty. Others have simply started to
emulate the mcvay "puke politics".
 
>about people like Mr. Holman? You mean like Dr. Michael publishing 
>contact information on my father? You mean like these recent posts 
>alleging to identify my home address?

I'm sorry if you had to suffer that, but that is EXACTLY the mcvay
method of intimidation. He has done exactly that sort of thing to
others, and now some of the shit is flying off the fan and hitting
him.

>You mean like the mapquest links 
>to directions to my home in Denver? You mean like the harassing emails 
>received by Mr. McFee's employer?

Others have been subjected to similar treatment by mcfee and mcvay, so
that the latter can only blame themselves for engaging in puke
politics that makes people so angry that they retaliate.

>You mean like the "Nizkor phone book"?
>
>I believe Mr. Keenan is correct: you ARE delusional.
>> >
>> >The problem for Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" in Canada arises when 
>> >they go past discussing the Holocaust and start promoting hatred.
>> >
>> >That's when they risk breaking Canadian laws.
>> >
>> >> Honesty you have never known.
>> >
>> >Try to keep up, Kurt.
>> >
>> >-pk
>> >
>> >> Kurt Knoll.
>> >>
>> >> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:v7idnTozI_Oc233UnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> >>> news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>> >>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>> >>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since the
>> >>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>> >>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>> >>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>> >>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen 
>> >>> years ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that 
>> >>> he had a constitutional right to lie.
>> >>>
>> >>> So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.
>> >>>
>> >>> Do try to keep up with the news.
>> >>>
>> >>> -pk
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> - these are
>> >>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that 
>> >>>>>the
>> >>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - if 
>> >>>>>the
>> >>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>> >>>>>convicted.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that 
>> >>>>>what he
>> >>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>> >>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that 
>> >>>>>Zundel
>> >>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>> >>>>>generally understood.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the Constitution
>> >>>>>permits a right to lie.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications 
>> >>>>>were
>> >>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by 
>> >>>>>it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about 
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> holocaust.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion about 
>> >>>>>the
>> >>>>>Holocaust".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions are
>> >>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred against 
>> >>>>>an
>> >>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>> >>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a 
>> >>>>>group
>> >>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to 
>> >>>>>gain
>> >>>>>passing grades.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having an
>> >>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged 
>> >>>>>with,
>> >>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust deniers 
>> >>>>>and
>> >>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for 
>> >>>>>historical
>> >>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in 
>> >>>>>public,
>> >>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use Holocaust
>> >>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in their
>> >>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>> >>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements 
>> >>>>>that
>> >>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to 
>> >>>>>> believe
>> >>>>>> it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>> >>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no 
>> >>>>>charges
>> >>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't 
>> >>>>>illegal -
>> >>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable 
>> >>>>>group.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>-pk
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>> >>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His defence 
>> >>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -pk
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> kk
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>> >>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version is 
>> >>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>> >>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from promotiong
>> >>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> -pk
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries that 
>> >>>>>>>>>>> he
>> >>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he published 
>> >>>>>>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the Propa-sphere 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>> >>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:31 EDT 2009
Article: 2007998 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:18:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:4oj3u4ll18gm1m8sev75snp8ligjn6k35f@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:34:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:gkc1u4pmiledt7cda537gkd5pcrb2fjsvl@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:21:47 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It should
>>>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is still
>>>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have
>>>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen
>>>>>years
>>>>>ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that he had 
>>>>>a
>>>>>constitutional right to lie.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you suppose that this archaic piece of legislation was struck
>>>> down in 1992?
>>>
>>>Because Zundel convinced the Supreme Court Justices that falsehoods are a
>>>valid form of expression.
>>
>> You are distorting the court's decision, but then that seems to be
>> standard fare for the mcvay/mcfee tribe.
>
>It's not a distorion of the court's decision.
>
>You could try reading it, but then, you apparently have problems with what 
>you yourself write, as we see a few lines below.
>
>>>
>>>You can read the details as to how and why in the decision, yourself.
>>>
>>>> Could it be because of its fraudulent use as a
>>>> harassment tool by Sabina and her remembrance committee?
>>>
>>>Nope.   At this pont, I suggest that it might be a better idea for you to
>>>read the decision rather than continue to make things up about it.
>>>
>>>In fact, the striking down of that law rather undercuts the Holocaust 
>>>denier
>>>and "revisionist" claim that the Canadian legal system was, or is, "run by
>>>Jews".
>>
>> They need to pay some lip service to the constitution and the charter
>> of rights or people will start to become cynical.
>
>So, except for the fact that they clearly don't follow their Jewish masters, 
>they follow their Jewish masters.
>
>Sure, striking down one law Canada had that came closest to prohibiting 
>Holocuast denial plays right into the hands of the Jewish conspiracy.
>
>Sorry, but your "argument" makes you look delusional.
>
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in Canada.
>>>>
>>>> The Zundel fiasco brought about its demise.
>>>
>>>But you *just said* that is still there!
>>
>> It was at the time we were talking about, not 2009.
>
>You seem to have some sort of degenerative disorder.
>
>Do you recall your own words of just a few days ago,  or are you having that 
>much problem with your memory?
>
>Look up.   A few days ago, you said:
>
>"It should have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is 
>still there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to have 
>a person with a red flag walking in front of it."
>
>That's present tense.   You were talking about 2009.
>
>And you didn't even notice that you are now claiming exactly the opposite of 
>what was in your previous post.

You're an idiot. The law society doesn't contact me every time some
obscure antiquated piece of legislation is removed from the books, so
I naturally thought it was still in place since that it the act used
to attack Zundel. There is probably a lot of legislation removed from
the books without me being made aware of it.

>
>How very "revisionist" of you.
>
>-pk
>
>>>
>>>> This archaic legislation
>>>> can no longer be used as a harassment tool to intimidate people into
>>>> paying lip service to holocaustT orthodoxy.
>>>
>>>And you don't even notice that you are now claiming exactly the opposite 
>>>of
>>>what was in your previous post.
>>>
>>>Good one.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Do try to keep up with the news.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - these are
>>>>>>>colloquially also know as lies -  as truth, by people who *know* that
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>material is false.   As such, it allowed a defence of honest belief - 
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>defendant honestly believed the material was true, they could not be
>>>>>>>convicted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Zundel could not convince either of two juries that he believed that
>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>he
>>>>>>>was publishing as true was true.    Both juries found that he did not
>>>>>>>believe what he was publishing was true; meaning that they found that
>>>>>>>Zundel
>>>>>>>actually believed that the Holocaust did occur, and more or less as
>>>>>>>generally understood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The law was overturned because Zundel established that the 
>>>>>>>Constitution
>>>>>>>permits a right to lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A person who honestly believes that their statements or publications
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>true not only has no need of such a defence, but would be offfended by
>>>>>>>it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no law in Canada that prohibits criticising the holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's right, though you are again straying close to incoherence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ask Kegstra ? how he did get victimized for having an opinion about
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Easy.   Because Keegstra was not "victimized for having an opinion 
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>Holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is not in any way secret information.   The relevant decisions 
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>freely available online, and you can read them yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Keegstra was charged and convicted of wilfully promoting hatred 
>>>>>>>against
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>identifiabe group, under section 319 of the Criminal Code of Canada.
>>>>>>>Specifically, Keegstra not only taught his students that Jews are as a
>>>>>>>group
>>>>>>>evil, but he required them to accept and adopt his views in order to
>>>>>>>gain
>>>>>>>passing grades.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That isn't a description of Holocaust denial, "revisionism", "having 
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>opinion about the holocaust", or "criticising the holocaust".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Canada has no law against Holocaust denial.   Keegstra was not charged
>>>>>>>with,
>>>>>>>prosecuted for, or convicted of, Holocaust denial.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I will suggest that part of what confuses you is that Holocaust 
>>>>>>>deniers
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>"revisionists" are fundamentally motivated not by any search for
>>>>>>>historical
>>>>>>>truth, but by simple hatred of Jews and other identifiable groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once frustrated, these people cannot keep their hatred in check in
>>>>>>>public,
>>>>>>>and this is where they get into trouble.   They attempt to use 
>>>>>>>Holocaust
>>>>>>>denial and "revisionism" as a cover, but once the glaring flaws in 
>>>>>>>their
>>>>>>>historical "arguments" and "analyses" produce inevitable rejection by
>>>>>>>rational people, their real nature emerges, and they make statements
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>are illegal under Canadian law.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For you the holocaust is like a religion and everybody else has to
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once again, Kurt, you are just making things up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your own experience shows us that your claims about the legality of
>>>>>>>Holocaust denial or "revisionism" don't hold water.   There are no
>>>>>>>charges
>>>>>>>against you for it, for the simple reason that what *you* do isn't
>>>>>>>illegal -
>>>>>>>you don't appear to be actively promoting hatred of an identifiable
>>>>>>>group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:3didnXfqFLjUo0PUnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:x8nDl.22180$PH1.9409@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>>>> Did he really where did he say this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In his successful appeal of the False News conviction.   His 
>>>>>>>>> defence
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> that he had a constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could actually try paying attention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:0oydndutkvtC7EDUnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:5AdDl.20858$Db2.15695@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Knock it of Patrick anyone you does not agree with your version 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> holocaust denier. But there is no one who is more dishonest and
>>>>>>>>>>>> corrupt that your clan is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Excuse me, but Zundel is the one who made a fortune from 
>>>>>>>>>>> promotiong
>>>>>>>>>>> material he admitted was false.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You were saying something about dishonest and corrupt?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:LsCdnVbLBITfzkDUnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ggjqt49esevr49umlnbjqerm3cvs72fcgp@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are men who can prove the 'Holocaust' is a Big Lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there aren't.   There are people who lie about it, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their own reasons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can find them in jail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's look at Zundel, since that's who you are referring to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel admitted that he believes that the Holocaust actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He admitted this when he failed, twice, in convincing juries 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually believed that the Holocaust denial material he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> published
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> materially true, and a appealed using a defence that he had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A person telling the truth has no need for such a defence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> columnists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discuss these men and their work would endanger the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Propa-sphere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they are just not as important as they think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They must disappear. But we know, mass media. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're not going away. We're getting louder and stronger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean, you're getting better internet connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing you can do to stop us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I keep reading Holocaust deniers say that, and it keeps not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2008006 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ugo Voigt, Questions Ho£ocau$tT Toll, Demands Return of German Land
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <7ne7u4tipmqoiukvqqej1g5ciaq1eh92jl@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:59:48 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti 
>viestissä:lq0tt4h5oqjeq10vefbg3dh9ddrnblojb6@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:53:25 +0300, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  kirjoitti
>>>viestissä:f54st4lh33mbst37uqsl296odpvn0am6dg@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:18:10 +0200, "Heinrich" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Voigt speaks the truth when he says that Königsberg, Danzig, and
>>>> Breslau were German cities since their founding, and neither Russians
>>>> nor Poles have any entitlement to them. While there is no prospect of
>>>> recovering them, it does not follow that the theft should be
>>>> "accepted" as "legitimate". It wasn't legitimate when it was done, and
>>>> it doesn't become legitimate as time passes. In AD 3009, Polish and
>>>> German claims to Breslau would be about equal, according to
>>>> international law, assuming that Poland still holds the city a
>>>> thousand years into the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Natonalism was an idea of late AD 1800. I can quarantee You that there 
>>>will
>>>not be such thing in AD 3009. Nowadays there is EU and nowadays all those
>>>who wish to live in Wroclaw or in Gdansk can do so with same taxation and
>>>same civil rights not dependend of their origin. There is no need for old
>>>time nationalism in Europe anymore and no need for nationalist political
>>>parties.
>>
>> You should try to tell that to the chauvinistic Poles and Czechs. You
>> are terribly naive, Topi.
>>
>
>Breslau (Wroclaw) was the last festnung of the SS that fought after even 
>Berlin had fallen. The inhabitants suffered terribly, in vain. Many Poles 
>and Czechs remember the sorrows caused by German chauvinism, but as new 
>generations come the hatred will cease. Still there will be

It wasn't the SS that defended the city. The city also held for a long
time against Napoleon in the early nineteenth century, were those also
SS men in your simple-minded grasp of history?

Breslau's job was to divert resources from the Russian attack on
Berlin, and they did that with heroic effectiveness. Once Berlin fell
on May 2, Breslau's assignment was finished, but they decided to hold
on until May 5.

It was the Poles and Russians who murdered or expelled virtually all
the residents of the city, not SS men, and that well after the war was
over, at least officially. Your Polish "heroes" are anything but
heroes. I have utter contempt for the chauvinistic Poles who have
shown themselves unable to operate even a lemonade stand successfully.

Uncharacteristically, I was rather hoping that the USSR would totally
crush Poland during the uproar with the Solidarity Union. Europe was a
much nicer place when Poland was a Russian province under really tight
Russian control. The Russians understood how to manage Poles. During
the Napoleonic invasion, the Russians threw dead Poles down the wells
so that the French soldiers would encounter the stinking carcass of a
Pole poisoning the well.

It is not by accident that the German term for "great disorder and
confusion" is "polnische Wirtschaft". That was my mom's favourite line
when my room was messy as a kid: Wir sind doch keine Polen!




>
>Awareness.Remembrance. Responsibility
>
>Topi 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:12:32 EDT 2009
Article: 2008009 of alt.revisionism
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:34:18 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , Doc Tony
> wrote:
>
>> I mean, Frank, those German word endings in virtually 
>> every single part of speech can be vexing! You know, even the simple 
>> "ein, eine, einen, einem, eines, einer" versus the English "a/an/the." 

Actually, English being an uninflected language, is dramatically
simpler than languages such as German with its inflections.
Pronunciation is a different issue entirely.

>
>Everything is relative. In my everyday life I use both Finnish, with
>fifteen cases, and Estonian, with fourteen. German has just four piddly
>nominative, accusative, dative, and genitive cases, with the gender
>differences neutralized in the plural, unlike real *cojones* languages
>such as Latin, Czech, Icelandic, and even Old English. In my everyday
>linguistic life I have to deal with onslaughts from partitives, inessives,
>adessives, abessives, essives, illatives, allatives, ablatives, first and
>second accusatives, and even the occasional prolative and terminative.
>This is just to say "Hello." or "Two eggs over easy with bacon." I'm not
>complaining, but German grammar is greasy kid stuff for an English speaker
>compared to the grammar of Finnish, Estonian, Russian, Czech (with
>sentnces such as "Strc^ prst skrz krk." and "Gr^ek r^ek abych my r^ech,
>kolko je ve Gr^rcke r^ek-" a sentence so difficult to pronounce properly
>that the Czechs have had to invent a machine to help five-year olds who
>have not mastered the intiminating combination of a trilled *r*and a *zh*,
>as in 
>*Dvor^ak* position their tongue properly), Hungarian, Basque, or 
>Georgian, with its ergative sentence structure.
>
>Asun         vuonna      1930  rakennetussa   talossa.
>reside-1 SG  year-ESSIVE 1930  built-INESSIVE building-INESSIVE
>'I live in a building that was built in 1930.'
>
>Each of us has a grammatical cross to bear, although almost endingless
>English has grammatical complexity that more case-marked languages such as
>German, Finnish and Estonian can avoid:
>
>Matti potki koiraa.      'Matti kicked the dog.'
>Koiraa potki Matti.      'The dog was kicked by Matti.'
>Matti koiraa potki.      'Matti really *kicked* the dog.'
>Koiraa Matti potki.      'It was the dog that Matti kicked.'
>Potki koiraa Matti.      'Matti is the one who kicked the dog.'
>Potki Matti koiraa.      'It is really true that Matti kicked the dog.'
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:37:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2483461 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Obama Laments His Inability To Speak Austrian
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:52:23 -0700 (PDT), dank420@rocketmail.com
wrote:

>On Apr 11, 8:42 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Transition Zone
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 8, 10:34 pm, Lonestar  wrote:
>> >> Dink wrote:
>> >> > There s a lot of I don t know what the term is inAustrian
>> >> > wheeling and dealing, and people are pursuing their interests, and
>> >> > everybody has their own particular issues and their own particular
>> >> > politics, he said in response to anAustrianreporter s question.
>>
>> >> LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >> He is a Dip Shit!
>> >> Robert(Tx)
>>
>> >If he had known the difference, how do you think would he have known
>> >it?
>>
>> >(not every ivy league minority knows about basic Central E.U.
>> >standards)
>>
>> That really is pathetic. Americans seem to know or understand
>> practically nothing that happens beyond their front porch. These are
>> the same people that run around the world murdering millions to impose
>> their ignorant notions on the rest of the world.
>>
>> There is no such thing as Austrian, since Austria has been
>> continuously part of Germany from the 9th century to the 19th century
>> and then off and on thereafter. Austrians, like the bulk of the Swiss,
>> are German-speaking and always have been.
>
>Why not let Austrians decide what to call the language they speak?  I
>often resent having to refer to my American language as 'English,' and
>I've heard people from Spain insist that what Mexicans speak is not
>Spanish.

Austrians do have a local accent, but what they speak is standard
"Hoch Deutsch". Austrian speech is much closer to standard German than
American speech is to English.

If you ask an Austrian what language he speaks he will invariably
answer "Deutsch".


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Apr 14 12:37:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2483549 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Professor Walt. Can the U.S. put pressure on Israel?: A user's  guide with two fine reading lists attached.
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:44:08 -0700 (PDT), william hubbard
 wrote:

>On Apr 10, 3:41 pm, HHW  wrote:
>> Can the United States put pressure on Israel?: A user's guide
>> Fri, 04/10/2009 - 6:18pm
>>
>> Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and now Barack Obama have all
>> publicly stated that the United States seeks a "two-state" solution to
>> the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In other words, the United States
>> supports the creation of a viable Palestinian state in virtually all
>> of the West Bank and Gaza. The new Israeli government led by Benjamin
>> Netanyahu opposes this goal, and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman
>> has already said that he does not think Israel is bound by its recent
>> commitments on this issue.
>>
>> To advance its own interests, therefore, the United States will have
>> to pursue a more even-handed policy than it has in the past, and put
>> strong pressure on both sides to come to an agreement. Instead of the
>> current "special relationship" -- where the U.S. gives Israel generous
>> and nearly-unconditional support -- the United States and Israel would
>> have a more normal relationship, akin to U.S. relations with other
>> democracies (where public criticism and overt pressure sometimes
>> occurs).  While still committed to Israel’s security, the United
>> States would use the leverage at its disposal to make a two-state
>> solution a reality.
>>
>> This idea appears to be gaining ground. Several weeks ago, a
>> bipartisan panel of distinguished foreign policy experts headed by
>> Henry Siegman and Brent Scowcroft issued a thoughtful report calling
>> for the Obama administration to “engage in prompt, sustained, and
>> determined efforts to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict.” Success,
>> they noted, "will require a careful blend of persuasion, inducement,
>> reward, and pressure..." Last week, the Economist called for the
>> United States to reduce its aid to Israel if the Netanyahu government
>> continues to reject a two-state solution.  The Boston Globe offered a
>> similar view earlier this week, advising Obama to tell Netanyahu "to
>> take the steps necessary for peace or risk compromising Israel's
>> special relationship with America." A few days ago, Ha’aretz reported
>> that the Obama Administration was preparing Congressional leaders for
>> a possible confrontation with the Netanyahu government.
>>
>> These developments got me thinking: what might a more even-handed
>> posture look like in practice? We already know what it means for the
>> United States to put pressure on the Palestinians, because Washington
>> has done that repeatedly -- and sometimes effectively -- over the past
>> several decades.  During the 1970s, for example, the United States
>> supported King Hussein’s violent crackdown on the PLO cadres who were
>> threatening his rule in Jordan. During the 1980s, the United States
>> refused to recognize the PLO until it accepted Israel’s right to
>> exist.  After the outbreak of the Second Intifada, the Bush
>> administration refused to deal with Yasser Arafat and pushed hard for
>> his replacement. After Arafat's death, we insisted on democratic
>> elections for a new Palestinian assembly and then rejected the results
>> when Hamas won. The United States has also gone after charitable
>> organizations with ties to Hamas and backed Israel’s recent campaign
>> in Gaza. In short, the United States has rarely hesitated to use its
>> leverage to try to shape Palestinian behavior, even if some of these
>> efforts -- such as the inept attempt to foment a Fatah coup against
>> Hamas in 2007 -- have backfired.
>>
>> But what about pressure on Israel?  The United States has only rarely
>> put (mild) pressure on Israel in recent decades (and never for very
>> long), even when the Israeli government was engaged in actions (such
>> as building settlements) that the U.S. government opposed.  The
>> question is: if the Netanyahu/Lieberman government remains
>> intransigent, what should Obama do?  Are there usable sources of
>> leverage that the United States could employ to nudge Israel away from
>> the vision of “Greater Israel” and towards a genuine two-state
>> solution?  Here are a few ideas.
>>
>> 1. Cut the aid package? If you add it all up, Israel gets over $3
>> billion in U.S. economic and military aid each year, which works out
>> to about $500 per Israeli citizen. There’s a lot of potential leverage
>> here, but it’s probably not the best stick to use, at least not at
>> first. Trying to trim or cut the aid package will trigger an open and
>> undoubtedly ugly confrontation in Congress (where the influence of
>> AIPAC and other hard-line groups in the Israel lobby is greatest). So
>> that’s not where I’d start. Instead, I’d consider a few other options,
>> such as:
>>
>> 2. Change the Rhetoric. The Obama administration could begin by using
>> different language to describe certain Israeli policies.  While
>> reaffirming America’s commitment to Israel’s existence as a Jewish-
>> majority state, it could stop referring to settlement construction as
>> “unhelpful,” a word that makes U.S. diplomats sound timid and mealy-
>> mouthed.  Instead, we could start describing the settlements as
>> “illegal” or as “violations of international law.”  The UN Charter
>> forbids acquisition of territory by force and the Fourth Geneva
>> Convention bars states from transfering their populations (even if
>> voluntarily) to areas under belligerent occupation.  This is why
>> earlier U.S. administrations described the settlements as illegal, and
>> why the rest of the world has long regarded them in the same way.
>> U.S. officials could even describe Israel’s occupation as “contrary to
>> democracy,” “unwise,” “cruel,” or “unjust.”  Altering the rhetoric
>> would send a clear signal to the Israeli government and its citizens
>> that their government’s opposition to a two-state solution was
>> jeopardizing the special relationship.
>>
>> 3. Support a U.N. Resolution Condemning the Occupation.  Since 1972,
>> the United States has vetoed forty-three U.N. Security Council
>> resolutions that were critical of Israel (a number greater than the
>> sum of all vetoes cast by the other permanent members).  If the Obama
>> administration wanted to send a clear signal that it was unhappy with
>> Israel’s actions, it could sponsor a resolution condemning the
>> occupation and calling for a two-state solution.  Taking an active
>> role in drafting such a measure would also ensure that it said exactly
>> what we wanted, and avoided criticisms that we didn’t want included.
>>
>> 4. Downgrade existing arrangements for “strategic cooperation.”  There
>> are now a number of institutionalized arrangements for security
>> cooperation between the Pentagon and the Israel Defense Forces and
>> between U.S. and Israeli intelligence. The Obama administration could
>> postpone or suspend some of these meetings, or start sending lower-
>> grade representatives to them. There is in fact a precedent for this
>> step: after negotiating the original agreements for a “strategic
>> partnership,” the Reagan administration suspended them following
>> Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Today, such a step would surely
>> get the attention of Israel’s security establishment.
>>
>> 5. Reduce U.S. purchases of Israeli military equipment. In addition to
>> providing Israel with military assistance (some of which is then used
>> to purchase U.S. arms), the Pentagon also buys millions of dollars of
>> weaponry and other services from Israel’s own defense industry. Obama
>> could instruct Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to slow or decrease
>> these purchases, which would send an unmistakable signal that it was
>> no longer "business-as-usual." Given the battering Israel’s economy
>> has taken in the current global recession, this step would get noticed
>> too.
>>
>> 6. Get tough with private organizations that support settlement
>> activity. As David Ignatius recently noted in the Washington Post,
>> many private donations to charitable organizations operating in Israel
>> are tax-deductible in the United States, including private donations
>> that support settlement activity. This makes no sense: it means the
>> American taxpayer is indirectly subsidizing activities that are
>> contrary to stated U.S. policy and that actually threaten Israel’s
>> long-term future.  Just as the United States has gone after charitable
>> contributions flowing to terrorist organizations, the U.S. Treasury
>> could crack down on charitable organizations (including those of some
>> prominent Christian Zionists) that are supporting these illegal
>> activities.
>>
>> 7. Place more limits on U.S. loan guarantees. The United States has
>> provided billions of dollars of loan guarantees to Israel on several
>> occasions, which enabled Israel to borrow money from commercial banks
>> at lower interest rates.  Back in 1992, the first Bush administration
>> held up nearly $10 billion in guarantees until Israel agreed to halt
>> settlement construction and attend the Madrid peace conference, and
>> the dispute helped undermine the hard-line Likud government of Yitzhak
>> Shamir and bring Yitzhak Rabin to power, which in turn made the
>> historic Oslo Agreement possible.
>>
>> 8. Encourage other U.S. allies to use their influence too. In the
>> past, the United States has often pressed other states to upgrade
>> their own ties with Israel.  If pressure is needed, however, the
>> United States could try a different tack.  For example, we could
>> quietly encourage the EU not to upgrade its relations with Israel
>> until it had agreed to end the occupation.
>>
>> I don’t think Obama needs to employ all of these steps --and certainly
>> not all at once -- but the United States clearly has plenty of options
>> if pressure turns out to be necessary. And most of these measures
>> could be implemented by the Executive Branch alone, thereby
>> outflanking die-hard defenders of the special relationship in
>> Congress.  Indeed, even hinting that it was thinking about some of
>> these measures would probably get Netanyahu to start reconsidering his
>> position.
>>
>> Most importantly, Obama and his aides will need to reach out to
>> Israel’s supporters in the United States, and make it clear to them
>> that pressing Israel to end the occupation is essential for Israel’s
>> long-term survival.  He will have to work with the more far-sighted
>> elements in ...
>>
>> read more »
>
>Jordan has always been the second state..

That is only if you subscribe to Zionist propaganda.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2008374 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Hitler Had His Support Base Firmly From Republicans -  Conservative Historian Jonah Goldberg
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:03:28 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 13, 4:31 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>> "After the Second World War, shortly before the United Nations
>> partition of Palestine into separate Jewish and non-Jewish areas, Jews
>> still made up less than one-third of the population of Palestine. The
>> 1946 British census counted 608,000 Jews out of a total population of
>> 1,845,000. The great majority of these Jews were recent immigrants,
>> whereas nearly all of the Arabs were natives who had roots in
>> Palestine going back many generations. What the Jews had that the
>> Palestinians didn't have, however, was a very substantial degree of
>> control of the governments of the United States and the United
>> Kingdom, and these two countries exerted a decisive influence on the
>> policies of the United Nations.
>   So then the land should be returned to Turkey?

Turkey was just another foreign occupier of the area, but apparently
not nearly as vicious as the current group of European Jews that have
taken over.

So, no, it should not be returned to Turkey.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2008375 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:10:28 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>
>>
>> German leaders believed in death before dishonor. They knew the
>>allies were subhuman monsters:
>>
>>
>>The Diaries of Charles A. Lindbergh, p.986 
>
>>p.961
>>   "German children look in through the window. We have more food than
>>we need, but regulations prevent giving it to them. It is difficult to
>>look at them. 
>
>Putting a bullet in the head of a couple of them would have stopped
>that from happening.

Now that is the REAL allied attitude coming through. It is what I've
come to expect from them, and they hypocritically complain about
Nazis.





> The less Hitler Youth in the world the better.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:53 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>
>>
>>  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>>We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
>>yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences. 
>
>You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>Germany.

The Russians would have attacked Germany with or without Hitler.

> Germany got almost everything it deserved.

You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
"Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:54 EDT 2009
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:45:31 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>It's true the German courts are a instrument for the holocaust industry. 
>Never in history ever did a government punish their citizen to please 
>someone else. For theme any critic against the holocaust industry is 
>considered a denial. Someone wrote the book on human falsehood and we all 
>know who it is.

The Federal Republic of Germany is the creation of the allies. Sylvia
Stolz is absolutely correct, and the political parties were originally
parties licenced by the allies to administer Germany on THEIR behalf,
not on behalf of the German people.

>
>Kurt Knoll
>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:tvj7u4lfkeio112fskr9psptpieua38f10@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> MANNHEIM, Germany (AP) - A defence lawyer of far-right activist Ernst
>> Zundel, charged with denying the Holocaust, was physically carried
>> from the courtroom Wednesday after defying a ruling banning her from
>> the trial on grounds she tried to sabotage the proceedings.
>> Two police officers had to carry Sylvia Stolz from the Mannheim
>> courtroom after she refused the judge's order to leave.
>>
>> "Resistance! The German people are rising up," Stolz shouted as she
>> was taken from the room.
>>
>> Some of the scores of supporters of Zundel, a 66-year-old German
>> deported from Canada, also quit the courtroom. Zundel, who emigrated
>> to Canada in 1958 and lived in Toronto and Montreal until 2001, has
>> been standing trial since November on charges of years of anti-Semitic
>> activities including denying the Holocaust - a crime in Germany - in
>> documents and on the Internet.
>>
>> The presiding judge halted the trial on March 9 to ask for Stolz's
>> removal after she denounced the court as a "tool of foreign
>> domination" and described the Jews as an "enemy people" in earlier
>> sessions.
>>
>> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1144233787250&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_Ontario&call_pageid=968256289824&call_pagepath=News/Ontario
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/     www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/
>>
>> http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>>
>> http://heretical.com/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2008379 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:23:53 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Everyone who does not agree or believe in the Jews is a nazi.

That seems to be the rhetoric of idiots like the mcfee/mcvay crowd.
For Ejaculito, "Nazi" seems to be every second word of his totally
senseless and ridiculous posts.

His posts tend to be devoid of content and simply repeat the mantra
"Nazi" to the point of nausea.



>  In Germany 
>people who do not believe in religion or Jesus Christ can walk  freely. The 
>once ho do not believe in the holocaust an critic it openly could go do jail 
>we are now back in the dark ages and the course of history is controlled by 
>the holocaust industry. Whoever trusts your kind of people must be mental 
>nut cases.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:2031b059-2bbf-4b18-8147-93b8941d8735@s22g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 14, 10:11 am, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Well she spoke the truth. Germany today is a lackey for the Americans and
>> the Jews.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>   You are a lackey for Adolf Hitler and David Duke.
>
>   You are a Nazi.
>
>   As a Nazi, you are, above all else, a craven coward.
>
>  You are afraid to compete with others as equals because you know
>you can not measure up.
>
>   You are afraid of your own inadequacy, so you want to murder your
>betters.
>
>   You are afraid of the truth, so you want to murder those who would
>tell it.
>
>   You are afraid of history, so you want to murder the past, to wipe
>out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of
>National
>Socialism.
>
>   Finally, you are afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.
>Freedom of choice terrifies you... which is why you choose minor
>children as sexual partners. You can not interact with competent
>adults in a consensually sexual
>way.  You need to be able to impose yourself on a helpless victim, be
>it a prepubescent
>boy, or a patient in a mental hospital.
>
>   That is what you are, a Nazi, and there is nothing polite or
>honest about it.
>
> Michael 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2008381 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
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On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 09:51:56 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 14, 10:23 am, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Everyone who does not agree or believe in the Jews is a nazi.  In Germany
>> people who do not believe in religion or Jesus Christ can walk  freely. The
>> once ho do not believe in the holocaust an critic it openly could go do jail
>> we are now back in the dark ages and the course of history is controlled by
>> the holocaust industry. Whoever trusts your kind of people must be mental
>> nut cases.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>   The purpose of Germany's laws is to keep people like you from
>spreading lies there.

No, ejaculito, the purpose of Germany's laws, the same as during the
National Socialist period, is to prevent people from saying anything
with which the powers that be disagree.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2008382 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:19:38 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:70e7u4trlia3bru0i5ein5g56o7hf86tdt@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:08:57 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:0kj3u4tqeuerre2n9ok7uvdrol26b76u7a@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:A7%Dl.22556$PH1.18137@edtnps82...
>>>>>> There is no such a thing as a right to lie
>>>>>
>>>>>There is now, Kurt.
>>>>>
>>>>>You can thank Mr. Zundel and his legal team for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's now called "freedom of expression".
>>>>>
>>>>>> but it is everybody's right to  raise questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yep.   And nobody's stopping you, are they?
>>>>
>>>> What do you call the mcvay/mcfee system of threats, intimidation,
>>>> smears, and demonization if not attempts to silence people and rob
>>>> them of their "freedom of expression"?
>>>
>>>Nobody's attempting to silence you or rob you of your freedom of 
>>>expression.
>>>
>>>Your own experience makes clear that your position is false - again.
>>>
>>>You're still posting, aren't you?
>>
>> That is hardly thanks to mcfee/mcvay. If they had their way it would
>> all be different, and our democracy in Canada would be history.
>
>So, you agree that not only are you not silenced, but your all-powerful Jews 
>don't actually control much of anything at all.

I have never said anything of those things. Those are your statements
that you are now falsely imputing to me, an action on your part that
is pretty slimy, but slime is what I've come to expect from the
mcfee/mcvay crowd.

>
>Thanks for playing.
>
>-pk
>
>  


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2008383 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:17:21 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:bfe7u4pf1dog45ujt6tp3bvjulj3fd64l7@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:18:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:4oj3u4ll18gm1m8sev75snp8ligjn6k35f@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:34:31 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:gkc1u4pmiledt7cda537gkd5pcrb2fjsvl@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:21:47 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:taivt4llnnq4m07ckjt2o9kgr0fgch8ng2@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:08:56 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:KkrDl.22237$PH1.7753@edtnps82...
>>>>>>>>>> Patrick I think your are screwed up here. The bad news act
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It was "False news", not "bad news".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is about talking over someone that could be harmful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No.   You are wrong, and there is no need for you to be wrong, since
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>facts are available.   Look them up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The False News law addressed the dissemination of falsehoods
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is an old piece of archaic legislation from another age. It 
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is 
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to 
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a person with a red flag walking in front of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once again, you make statements that are not connected to reality.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Canadian False News law was struck down in 1992, that's seventeen
>>>>>>>years
>>>>>>>ago now, when the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with Zundel that he 
>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>constitutional right to lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you suppose that this archaic piece of legislation was struck
>>>>>> down in 1992?
>>>>>
>>>>>Because Zundel convinced the Supreme Court Justices that falsehoods are 
>>>>>a
>>>>>valid form of expression.
>>>>
>>>> You are distorting the court's decision, but then that seems to be
>>>> standard fare for the mcvay/mcfee tribe.
>>>
>>>It's not a distorion of the court's decision.
>>>
>>>You could try reading it, but then, you apparently have problems with what
>>>you yourself write, as we see a few lines below.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You can read the details as to how and why in the decision, yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Could it be because of its fraudulent use as a
>>>>>> harassment tool by Sabina and her remembrance committee?
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope.   At this pont, I suggest that it might be a better idea for you 
>>>>>to
>>>>>read the decision rather than continue to make things up about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>In fact, the striking down of that law rather undercuts the Holocaust
>>>>>denier
>>>>>and "revisionist" claim that the Canadian legal system was, or is, "run 
>>>>>by
>>>>>Jews".
>>>>
>>>> They need to pay some lip service to the constitution and the charter
>>>> of rights or people will start to become cynical.
>>>
>>>So, except for the fact that they clearly don't follow their Jewish 
>>>masters,
>>>they follow their Jewish masters.
>>>
>>>Sure, striking down one law Canada had that came closest to prohibiting
>>>Holocuast denial plays right into the hands of the Jewish conspiracy.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but your "argument" makes you look delusional.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So it isn't on the books, and no-one can be prosecuted for it in 
>>>>>>>Canada.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Zundel fiasco brought about its demise.
>>>>>
>>>>>But you *just said* that is still there!
>>>>
>>>> It was at the time we were talking about, not 2009.
>>>
>>>You seem to have some sort of degenerative disorder.
>>>
>>>Do you recall your own words of just a few days ago,  or are you having 
>>>that
>>>much problem with your memory?
>>>
>>>Look up.   A few days ago, you said:
>>>
>>>"It should have been cleaned out of the statute books years ago, but it is
>>>still there along with the regulation that a horseless carriage has to 
>>>have
>>>a person with a red flag walking in front of it."
>>>
>>>That's present tense.   You were talking about 2009.
>>>
>>>And you didn't even notice that you are now claiming exactly the opposite 
>>>of
>>>what was in your previous post.
>>
>> You're an idiot.
>
>No, I just have some idea as to what rather well publicised events mean.
>
>You clearly don't.
>
>> The law society doesn't contact me every time some
>> obscure antiquated piece of legislation is removed from the books, so
>> I naturally thought it was still in place since that it the act used
>> to attack Zundel.
>
>And it is the Act that was struck down by the Supreme Court decision that 
>ruled that Zundel had a constitutional right to lie.

Oh get off the pot. It was a medieval law designed to protect princes
>from criticism and had no place in a modern society. There is no
"right in lie" and there never was except in your demented
imagination.





   The law can no longer 
>be used, no further Act of Parliament is required.
>
>This is plain because the absolute defence against the False News charge is 
>that the defendant simply *believed* that what was being as true, was true.
>
>The Supreme Court, as were all the other courts, were convinced that Zundel 
>belived that the Holocaust ocurred more or less as is generally accepted. 
>This means that they believed that Zundel was lying.
>
>> There is probably a lot of legislation removed from
>> the books without me being made aware of it.
>
>The Law Society actually has nothing at all to do with this.
>
>When a court, ultimately the Supreme Court, rules that a law is 
>unconstitutional,  the law is no longer in force.
>
>Is this *really* news to you?  Are you really this ignorant of the structure 
>of your own society?
>
>-pk
>
> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2008384 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about David Irving
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:30:36 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:34:18 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article , Doc Tony
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I mean, Frank, those German word endings in virtually 
>> >> every single part of speech can be vexing! You know, even the simple 
>> >> "ein, eine, einen, einem, eines, einer" versus the English "a/an/the." 
>> 
>> Actually, English being an uninflected language, is dramatically
>> simpler than languages such as German with its inflections.
>
>English is still an inflecting language, although not to the degree that
>German is. An uninflecting language, such as Chinese or Vietnamese, would
>not use contrasts in word form to differentiate between person (I run vs.
>he runs), number (dog vs. dogs), tense (I walk vs. I walked; I run vs. I
>ran) mood (he runs away vs. lest he run away), comparison (smooth vs.
>smoother vs. smoothest), nor would it derive words by inflection (bake vs.
>baker, child vs. childish vs. childishness) or internal modification (hot
>vs. heat, long vs. length). A thousand years ago English inflection was
>every bit as complex as that of modern German today, but much of it has
>atrophied, even if it is still very much there.
>
>Because English has reduced and restructured its inflections, what is left
>is irritatingly irregular (e.g. I am, you are, he is; man vs. men, child
>vs. children, take vs. took, go vs. went. do vs did, etc.). Tok Pisin, a
>language spoken in Australia and Papua New Guinea, has gone far beyond
>English as concerns reducing or eliminating inflections:

The thing that makes English difficult is its inconsistency and
irregularity. French is probably the most logical of the modern
European languages, but in English practically everything is
memory-work.

>
>mipela tok        'I talk'
>mipela tok pinis  'I talked, lit. me-fellow talk finish'
>buk               'book'
>bukbuk            'books'
>haus buk          'library'
>
>> Pronunciation is a different issue entirely.
>
>Grammar and pronunciation are both difficult to assess and compare
>objectively. English grammar, despite such complexities as do-support (I
>spoke vs. I didn't speak, did I speak) is easy enough for someone coming
>from German (except for Kurt Knoll) or Icelandic, but frustratingly
>arbitrary for someone coming from Chinese, Tok Pisin, or Vietnamese.
>English pronuniciation is relatively easy for someone coming from a
>language that allows complex onsets (the part of the syllable before the
>vowel) and complex codas (the part of the syllable after the vowel), but
>notoriously difficult for people coming from languages where such
>syllables as *straits* [streits] or *strings* [strINz] would not be
>allowed, cf. Merry Christmas, "filtered" into Hawaiian and Japanese, both
>languages with severe constraints on syllable structure, as, repectively,
>Meli Kalikemaka and Meri Kurisimasu.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:56 EDT 2009
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:42:25 +0200, Frank Bügel 
wrote:

>Am Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:48:55 -0400 schrieb Doc Tony:
>
>> Frank Bügel wrote:
>[...]
>>>>>>>Of course it was a misfortune for the Germans and the German Reich, that
>>>>>>>the Zionists (most of them was rootless eastern Jews, not Germans or german
>>>>>>>Jews), also in Germany (!!), voted in 1916 for an ongoing war to get the
>>>>>>>Balfour-Declaration in ally with England. This was a misfortune, what
>>>>>>>else?!!
>[...]
>> [!] To quote 'Colonel' Henry Drummond [** Spencer Tracy] in the classic 
>> flick, "Inherit the Wind" [1960 and which I often link to Joe "Six 
>> Pack/Mag7®" Bellinger for quite obvious reasons where 'Wind; becomes the 
>> operative word, and in more ways than one, and in addition to the 
>> Bellinger satiric bits based on that flick], and with one 'mod' 
>> substituted, to wit, "OK .. forget it .. we'll play in 'your' ballpark, 
>> 'Frank' ."
>> 
>> The short version is this: 'Der GröFaZ' required a scapegoat for 
>> virtually 'all' that was wrong in the Heimat and the Jews were the 
>> target. 
>
>This wasn't an answer of my question! Once more: was the zionist plot
>against Germany in WW1 a missfortune for the Germans or not? 

You got the same meaningless boilerplate crap from "Doc" that he gives
to everybody. I have long since killfiled the silly bastard as a waste
of my time with the futile attempt to  read meaning into paragraphs
where there clearly is none.

>
>> The even pre-government NSDAP slogan and mantra became, as you 
>> very well know, 'Die Juden sind unser Unglück' [carried perpetually on 
>> the front page, in red, of Streicher's "Der Stürmer"] and, of course, 
>> the Jews targeted as such with the ultimate write-off, Volk citizenship 
>> inclusive, coming in 1934 with the Nürnberg Laws effectively making Jews 
>> non entities and, here's a word you can 'relate' to, Frank, "Ausländer" 
>> [!] and stripped of even the most basic human rights, social, political 
>> and otherwise. 
>
>And you mean, this was a correct answer of my question?! 
>
>In the USA, the black people was much more "under oberservation" in the
>same time like german Jews. The american Jewry did nothing for the black
>people from 1933 to 1945, but cried about the treatment of Jews in a far
>european country. What is that? Chuzpe!! (Das waren widerliche
>Arschlöcher.)
>
>> They became the 'unglück' because they were the 
>> convenient target for Hitler and the NSDAP. 
>
>Read about Leo Sklarek, Willy Sklarek, Iwan Kutisker, Julius und Henry
>Barmat, Ludwig Katzenellenbogen... or see the film "Der ewige Jude" and you
>will know, what was "wrong" with so many Jews in the 'Weimarer Republik'. 
>
>"Die Massenwanderung russischer und polnischer Juden nach Amerika und
>Mitteleuropa hat im zwanzigsten Jahrhundert den Antisemitismus in den
>Vereinigten Staaten entzündet und in Mitteleuropa verstärkt. ...
>Hunderttausende polnische Juden wanderten nach Wien und Berlin: Kinder
>einer fremden Kultur, mit einem fremden Jargon, fremden Sitten und fremden
>Auffassungen. Sie kamen meist als Flüchtlinge, verarmt und gezwungen, auf
>jede Weise ihr Leben zu fristen. Wo die legitimen Wege zu ihrer Ernährung
>und der Erhaltung ihrer Familie versperrt waren, mussten sie sich
>illegitime Wege suchen..." (Richard Graf Coudenhove-Kalergi, 1935)
>http://www.antisemitismus.net/klassiker/1935/1935-1-02.htm 
>
>> Just as the ol' Hitler 'stabbed in the back' rhetoric for losing the war [World War I] 
>> although the literature and diaries left by Ludendorf, Hindenburg, usw., tell a 
>> much different story of the 'why' of the German World War I military defeat.
>
>Germany seeked for peace in December 1916. The Zionists found another
>way... http://100777.com/node/1485 http://desip.igc.org/1939sLandman.htm
>
>This was realy "Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
> 
>> What's next, Frank, you're not going to make with the now revisionist 
>> classic chestnut of the 'Jewish declaration of war' [!] on the Heimat in 
>> in UK newspaper headline in 1933, or are you ... . What were they 
>> supposed to do for years of 5th rate citizen treatment [and 'no' German 
>> citizenship after 1934!] ...
>
>1935. And also without citizenship the Jews in Germany was much better
>treated like the Blacks in the USA in this time. What is your problem? You
>are an US-citizen. Did you hear something from "Niggers", "little yellow
>bellies" or "the fascist Krauts" at this time in the USA? You have at first
>to look to the crimes in your country. The us-american Jewry did wrong.
>
>> [Hitler] still plays the perpetual Lügner [** liar] and with a straight face writes, 
>> as duly translated for readers who may not have studied German, "It is untrue 
>> that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939" [cough-cough] and 
>> 'again' he lays the war on the Jews even though it was Hitler who did 
>> the multi-nation invasions [Poland, the Low Countries, France, Russia, 
>> usw. AND, BTW, Frank, with regard to the USA, declared war on the USA 
>> and 'not' vice versa. You 'do' recall that from the history books, ja, 
>> oder?
>
>You make a lot of mistakes. Hitler didn't want a world war, but he got
>it... http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch22.htm
>
>> What else, Frank ...
>
>England and France declared war at Germany, not vice versa. And both
>countries didn't declare war to the Soviet union. But Stalin also conquer
>Poland in September 1939. Roosevelt's "Neutrality" was a big fake. He and
>his jewish camarilla supported England. He started a war against Germany in
>the northern-Atlantic long before Hitler official declared war to the USA.
>
>(...)
>>> The far most european Jews were absolutly unguilty. I always wrote,
>>> the extermination of the european Jewry was a criminal act, a crime. But
>>> the us-jewish, anti-german war-mongers in the US-press and in the
>>> Roosevelt-adminstration knew at least since Hitler's speech at 30.01.1939:
>>> if they drive the USA (like 1916/17) into an  european war against Germany,
>>> one result should be 'the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe'. But
>>> the nazis held some offers: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/tenquestions.htm
>>> 
>>> So it is not a surprise for me, that the criminal zionist US-Jewry named
>>> later the annihilation of european Jews 'Holocaust'. "The term holocaust
>>> originally derived from the Greek word holókauston, meaning a "completely
>>> (holos) burnt (kaustos)" sacrificial offering to a god."
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
>> 
>> Now, feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, Frank, when you 
>> ADMIT there 'were' exterminations and you were/are 'against' that, ja? I 
>> mean you 'do' write up there, "The far most european Jews were 
>> absolutely unguilty." [sic] That, of course, will come as big news 
>> [indeed shock!] to certain "It Never Happened!®" barkers and revisionist 
>> luminaries such as "Papagei®" Ebe [Get this for a nym, Frank, "Johannes 
>> von Ebersdorf", AKA "Papagei®" Ebe], "Crackpot®" Freddy Berg and 
>> "Seance®" Morghus!
>
>But was is the problem? I don't know, if there was realy mass-gassings. I
>have to believe it in the FRG. I don't know, did 6 million Jews realy die.
>But it isn't my problem. The problem is IMO the jewish Holocaust-mafia, the
>jewish propaganda-priests, Israel and AIPAC... Not the "six Million Jews"
>or the "mass gassings of Jews". Money makes the world goes round and the
>FRG is a good cash-cow for Israel and many, many Jews.
>
>> BTW, Frank, just so there is no down-the-line revisionist barker 
>> J'accuse claim coming my way of my allegedly having 'misinterpreted' 
>> what you said, you 'do' write above, "I always wrote, the extermination 
>> of european Jewry was a criminal act, a crime." [sic]  Readers! 
>
>This is also the statement of Germar Rudolf. But Rudolf don't believe in
>mass-gassings and in the jewish "six-million-victim"-fetish.
>http://www.tfdixie.com/parshat/behar/005.htm
>
>regards Frank


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2008386 of alt.revisionism
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:50:11 +0200, Frank Bügel 
wrote:

>Am Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:46:09 -0500 schrieb Kenneth McVay OBC:
>
>> In article ,
>> Frank Bügel   wrote:
>> 
>>>This wasn't an answer of my question! Once more: was the zionist plot
>>>against Germany in WW1 a missfortune for the Germans or not? 
>> 
>> WHAT "zionist plot against Germany in WW1?"
>
>Germany seeked for peace in December 1916. The Zionists found another
>way... http://100777.com/node/1485 
>http://desip.igc.org/1939sLandman.htm
>
>In both links you will get an answer.

The brainless and pompous mcvay really trumpets his "Order of British
Columbia" for all it's worth. His title really ought to be AOU for
Arsehole of the Universe.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:57 EDT 2009
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On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:52:55 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Kenneth you and us are not on the same planet. definitely the Jews did have 
>a lot of influence over the British and Americans that did lead to their 
>hate mongering against Germany. One of them was the so called Balfour 
>agreement. Or can you proof it never took place. Definitely in the sanctions 
>against Germany after world war I it was the Jews who did have the leading 
>roll that did lead up to world war II. What is then the reason why Germans 
>today are not allowed to read publicly what was printed in the German news 
>papers from 1918 till 1945.

Kurt, mcfee/mcvay have never been about truth or historical accuracy.
They are paid propagandists with the assignment to spread hatred
against Germany and against Germans. The vast bulk of the
pontifications of both people is sheer crap.

>
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:9LedneXjzrgsXX7UnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Frank Bügel   wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>This wasn't an answer of my question! Once more: was the zionist plot
>>>against Germany in WW1 a missfortune for the Germans or not?
>>
>> WHAT "zionist plot against Germany in WW1?"
>>
>> -- 
>> "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you
>> people did hang him after that"
>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron)
>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2008388 of alt.revisionism
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:38:39 +0200, Frank Bügel 
wrote:

>Am Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:09:35 -0400 schrieb Doc Tony:
>
>> Frank Bügel wrote:
>
>[...]
>>>>The short version is this: 'Der GröFaZ' required a scapegoat for 
>>>>virtually 'all' that was wrong in the Heimat and the Jews were the 
>>>>target. 
>>> 
>>> This wasn't an answer of my question! Once more: was the zionist plot
>>> against Germany in WW1 a missfortune for the Germans or not? 
>> 
>> Frank, fess up, are you on the hash pipe or what? You're talking in 
>> circles now. You asked me [after cutting some of my stiff, BTW, which I 
>> don't appreciate in the first response, later fine, but leave the 
>> original in tact so I know what the hell you're talking about], anyway, 
>>   you specifically asked me if it wasn't really a 'misfortune' or 
>> Unglück about the Jews and Germany and I answered you...
>
>"'Der GröFaZ' required a scapegoat..." Are you on the hash pipe or what?

No, he only sounds that way. This is his usual demented style of
writing. I got tired of it and put him on a filter. I just don't have
time to waste on this sort of horseshit.

>
>Is in your mind only the "'Der GröFaZ'" and the "Holocaust"? The zionist
>plot among the Balfour-Declaration was in 1916/17. The following history
>was one result of this "missfortune for the Germans".
>
>> ... and now you're going on about a World War I Zionist plot against Germany 
>> -- now it's either a hash or crack pipe talking here or is this the old Balfour 
>> Agreement thing which was 'UK' initiated, 'not' USA, BTW. 
>
>It was 'Zionist'-initiated and the Zionists of both sides at the Atlantic
>ocean drove the USA into WW1. http://desip.igc.org/1939sLandman.htm 
>This was a real Unglück (missfortune) for all Germans and for the
>assimilated german Jews too.
>
>(...)
>> Frank, let's cut to the chase here on what I've at least been able to 
>> get out of you thus far, ja: You say you were 'against' Jewish 
>> extermination during the NS Zeit, ja...
>
>I wrote, the extermination was a crime. I'm not "for" or "against" an
>extermination of Jews during WW2, because this is historical and not the
>presence.
>
>> Now tho', you start going into Kurt Knoll railings about the "Jewish 
>> Mafia" and US-Jews and Zionists so are you talking today's Jews now, 
>> Frank, is 'that' where you're going? It looks that way. 
>
>It was/is always the same thing: the organized Jewry is a group that was
>after Wilson in (the near of) the center of American political life. This
>Jews have much influence and drove after 1916 the USA against Germany and
>Turkey, because "under German control the (Zionist) idea could never be
>realised and that under English control their idea could be realised"."
>http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1635&subject=191
>
>Todays US-Jews like Perle or Wolfowitz are not better.
>http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0323-09.htm
>
>> Just as Kurt does. You know, he tells Usenet that he's certainly not anti-Semitic 
>> [cough-cough], but in the same befuddled breath he says he just doesn't 
>> like Jews. Figure 'that' one out, Frank, in your 'analysis' of der alte 
>> Puppe® Kurt Knoll. But then too, Kurt 'not liking Jews' und du 'auch', 
>> was? 
>
>I don't like the organized, zionist Jewry. I'm more a friend of the
>so-called 'red assimilation' of Jews like in East-Germany or in the USSR. 
>
>> Now it's either NS-Zeit discussion --or-- the Jews of 'today', 
>> which one do you want to do? Or is it the World War 'Zionist plot' thing 
>> , in which case, tell me what you imagine to be the 'Zionist plot' 
>> against the Heimat. 
>
>You have only to read Benjamin Freedmans remarks.
>http://100777.com/jewry/freedman
>
>> But wait, ahhhhh, Der GröFaZ in the 1939 Reichtag 
>> 'prophesy speech', of course, "if the Jews ONCE MORE INVOLVE THE WORLD 
>> IN 'ANOTHER' WORLD WAR" ... 'that' spiel, in effect, 'both' World Wars 
>> were, don't tell me, Frank, were both initiated and caused by ... die 
>> Juden! 
>
>Watch the Roosevelt-administration and the US-Jewry at this time.
>http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>
>Count Jerzy Potocki, the Polish Ambassador in Washington, in a report to
>the Polish Foreign Office in January 1939, is quoted approvingly by the
>highly respected British military historian Major-General JFC Fuller.
>Concerning public opinion in America he says "Above all, propaganda here is
>entirely in Jewish hands .. when bearing public ignorance in mind, their
>propaganda is so effective that people have no real knowledge of the true
>state of affairs in Europe .. It is interesting to observe that in this
>carefully thought-out campaign .. no reference at all is made to Soviet
>Russia. If that country is mentioned, it is referred to in a friendly
>manner and people are given the impression that Soviet Russia is part of
>the democratic group of countries.. Jewry was able not only to establish a
>dangerous centre in the New World for the dissemination of hatred and
>enmity, but it also succeeded in dividing the world into two warlike camps
>.. President Roosevelt has been given the power.. to create huge reserves
>in armaments for a future war which the Jews are deliberately heading for."
>(Fuller, JFC: The Decisive Battles of the Western World vol 3 pp 372-374.)
>http://globalfire.tv/nj/08en/history/origins_of_ww2.htm
>
>Was Hitler right? 
>
>> And naturally, as alleged instigators of 'both' World Wars, 
>> ahhhhh, what you said you did 'not' deny whatsoever, you know, as the 
>> GröFaZ 'selbst' sagt, d.H., "Die Vernichtung der jüdischen Rasse in 
>> Europa!" Na' und ? 
>
>The us-american Jewry among Roosevelt decided to fight again in a war
>against Germany (see Potocki). Hilter partly fulfilled his own promise
>after 1941, as the WW2 was real. So, what is your problem? I havn't any
>problems with it, because I live today and not in 1942.
>
>> He sure as hell 'tried' it tho', that's for sure, but 
>> you're on record as saying it was a "criminal act and a crime." That's 
>> something anyway. I then assume if there was any "Endlödsung, it 
>> 'should' have been, as you see it, not the "unguilty' Euro Jews, 
>> millions of them, but the 'US-Jews' and 'Zionists', ja? 
>
>Right. The anti-german hate-mongers IMO deserved "Auschwitz" like Julius
>Streicher his sentence to death at Nuremberg trial.
>
>> Is this your message, Frank? Looks to be so! But then that's why I said to 
>> you, "Tod ist Tod" -- US or the Heimat or in Europa!
>
>Streicher died, but not the us-jewish, anti-german hate-mongers. This was
>the problem. These bad US-Jews created after the war the new
>"civil"-religion named "Holocaust". It's a pitty, but not my personal
>problem. 
>
>regards Frank


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:58 EDT 2009
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:19:58 -0700 (PDT), george 
wrote:

>On Apr 14, 11:38 pm, Frank Bügel  wrote:
>
>> It was 'Zionist'-initiated and the Zionists of both sides at the Atlantic
>> ocean drove the USA into WW1
>
>These claims are revisionist rubbish.
>
>Then the sinking of the Lusitania never occurred in your world ?

The sinking of the Lusitania was orchestrated by Churchill. Why else
would the escort be called off during the most dangerous part of the
voyage, the speed reduced to almost zero, and the standard zigzag
motion replaced by linear travel? The captain was not the regular
captain but a Churchill appointee. The actions show that they WANTED
the ship to be attacked.

>
>In the First World War there were many German Jews who were war
>heroes.

He wasn't talking about THOSE Jews, but about the east coast money
Jews in the USA.

>You are a very stupid person

No, that honour goes to you every time George.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:59 EDT 2009
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 07:55:36 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Ich lesse hier auf denn Englisch sprechend NG jede menge Anschauungen von 
>der Holocaust Beförderung Seite. Wo sie alles schon widerlegt haben. Man muß 
>ja total doof sein um diesen Menschen überhaupt zu glauben. Mann kann ja 
>auch sagen das sie alles im Wege leiten werden um andere von Gegenteil zu 
>überzeugen. EHRLICH WAREN SIE NOCH NIEMALS.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Andreas Bockelmann"  wrote in message 
>news:49e4368e$0$31868$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net...
>> Truthseeker schrieb:
>>> Die nach Krieges umerzihung hat aus dir einen Kartoffel gemacht.
>>
>> Kurt, das widerspricht aber der Political Correctness. In der OMF-BRD sagt 
>> man nicht "Umerziehung", hier heißt das "Bildungsauftrag".
>>
>> Interessant ist dabei, dass neben den "politischen Parteieen" der OMF-BRD 
>> sich auch die Umerzieh^WBildungsvermittler bei den Besatzerbehörden eine 
>> Lizenz beantragen mussten. Das giltsowohl für Funk- als auch Printmedien.
>>
>> Dass Ohlemacher die Existenz des Deutschen Volkes negiert spricht für 
>> seinen Geisteszustand.

That is the whole point and goal of the exercise. 

>>
>> -- 
>>  Mit freundlichen Grüßen   | /"\  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN  |
>>    Andreas Bockelmann      | \ /   KEIN HTML IN E-MAIL   |
>>   F/V +49-3221-1143516     |  X    UND  USENET-GRUPPEN   |
>>                            | / \                         | 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2008391 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: sanctions against israel, wilders responds
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:08:59 -0700 (PDT), william hubbard
 wrote:

>On Apr 14, 9:41 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The Israeli Newspaper Ha'aretz reported that the leader of the Dutch Labor
>> party, currently second ranking party in the ruling coalition led by the
>> CDA, would impose sanctions against Israel, if PM Netanyahu opposed a two
>> state solution peace agreement.  The Ha'aretz report notes:
>>
>> The Netherlands must impose economic sanctions against Israel if the new
>> government in Jerusalem thwarts the peace process with the Palestinians, the
>> Dutch Labor party said last week.
>>
>> Members of Labor, which is a member of government as the country's second
>> largest party, said they intended to write a manifesto on the matter to the
>> foreign minister, Maxime Verhagen, from the centrist ruling CDA party, who
>> is largely seen as a staunch supporter of Israel.
>>
>> In an interview for Radio 1, Labor's Martijn van Dam said his party insisted
>> that Verhagen and the European Union take "concrete" action that demands
>> Israel accept Hamas as a partner for dialog. Van Dam also lamented the
>> Netherlands and the European Union's decision to blacklist Hamas.
>>
>> With the EU parliamentary elections looming in June, there is the fear that
>> parties on the left would be in the ascendency.  Note what one Swiss-based
>> Zionist said in an email exchange:
>>
>> It is probable that the Labor parties of Europe will have a majority in the
>> EU parliament and ask for these sanctions. Regretfully the US administration
>> has the same ideas.
>>
>> Israel will probably face a major threat to its existence.
>>
>> This has to be fought against all around the US and the EU.
>>
>> One staunch opponent of the left's effort to threaten Israel's existence is
>> Dutch politician Geert Wilders.
>>
>> Wilders PVV (Freedom Party) recently surged to take the leading position in
>> recent Dutch polls, read here.   His Freedom Party is campaigning in the
>> upcoming EU Parliamentary elections and might make a critical difference to
>> thwart the Eurabian left's positions on Israel if the party wins with
>> significant seats in Holland.  Can Wilders take on these dhimmi useless
>> idiots of the Islamists in Holland?
>>
>> In an exchange of email, today, Wilders said:
>>
>> Of course we can. We already fought this stupid social democrats and there
>> even more stupid ideas in our parliament last week. But yes it is a threat
>> indeed so we should talk about it loud and clear!
>>
>> This attempt by the Dutch Labor party to sanction Israel will doubtless be a
>> topic of interest at a forthcoming event in South Florida on April 27th to
>> honor Wilders, which is co-sponsored by the Florida Security Council and
>> RedCounty.com, the on-line news service.  Among those who will introduce
>> Wilders are Lt. Col. Alan West and Florida House of representatives Majority
>> Leader, Adam Hasner.  For more detail, read here.
>>
>> Wilders is the best friend of the fight against Islamist stifling free
>> speech both in Eurabia and here in America.  He's one of the best friends
>> that Israel and the Jewish people have in these darkening times.
>>
>> Wilders is 'aux barricades' fighting for us to preserve Judeo Christian
>> values of free speech, liberty and freedom.  Let us protect and defend him,
>> as well.
>
>The asslifters and their useful infidels must be defeated..

LOL

Free speech, liberty, and freedom have never been Judeo-Christian
values. These two superstitions have consistently opposed all three as
dangerous to their superstitions.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:54:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2008436 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:56:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Use your real name you two faced parasitic nobody.

Are you suggesting that Timmy might be alias?

>kk
>
>"Tim Miller"  wrote in message 
>news:gs6519$309$3@news.motzarella.org...
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> His posts tend to be devoid of content
>>
>> And ANOTHER set of Industrial Strength Irony Meters
>> is shot to hell...
>>
>> LOL! 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:00 EDT 2009
Article: 2008437 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:26:59 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian breached previous 
>court orders by publishing offensive material about Jews and the Holocaust 
>on a website.
>
>The former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Jeremy 
>Jones, launched a civil action against Frederick Toben after he published 
>claims on the Adelaide Institute's website that the holocaust never 
>happened.
>
>The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged Holocaust 
>deniers were of limited intelligence.

While this may not apply to everybody, its certainly applies to the
mcfee/mcvay mob on this newsgroup.

>
>Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful contempt of court on 
>24 out of 28 possible counts.
>
>The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this month.
>
>Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>
>"If you believe in something and you want to have that freedom to express 
>your opinions then you should be prepared for sacrifices," he said.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:00 EDT 2009
Article: 2008438 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:48:06 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>After the Jews have silenced the whole world they can actually screw the 
>whole world.

That does appear to be the plan.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:74o1dhF12hsipU1@mid.individual.net...
>>A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian breached previous 
>>court orders by publishing offensive material about Jews and the Holocaust 
>>on a website.
>>
>> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Jeremy 
>> Jones, launched a civil action against Frederick Toben after he published 
>> claims on the Adelaide Institute's website that the holocaust never 
>> happened.
>>
>> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged Holocaust 
>> deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>
>> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful contempt of court on 
>> 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>
>> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this month.
>>
>> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>
>> "If you believe in something and you want to have that freedom to express 
>> your opinions then you should be prepared for sacrifices," he said.
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2008611 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:03:32 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 4:53 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>      It's easy to prove that the media is a pack of liars. If they
>> were not liars they would tell people that Hitler believed that the
>> Jews controlled the media.
>   The fact that Hitler claimed that Jews controlled the media is
>common knowledge.

It doesn't follow that the statement is false merely because Hitler
said it. This, like most of your posts, is totally illogical.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2008612 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:05:40 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 4:54 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>         Here are quotes from a speech delivered by Dr. Joseph Goebbels
>> at the National Socialist Party Congress, Nuernberg, 1937.
>   He killed himself and his family.

So? That says nothing about the speech or its validity. Try to stay on
topic rather than dragging in red herrings intended to derail the
discussions.

>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:01 EDT 2009
Article: 2008613 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 4:56 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>   Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>   Invading Russia was not such a good idea.

There were two options open. The first was to do nothing, and
experience a Soviet invasion in July of 1941 and the second was to try
to pre-empt the invasion. The second option was probably the lesser of
two evils.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2008614 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:07:03 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 5:00 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>  German leaders believed in death before dishonor.
>   And yet they ended up dishonored AND dead.
>
>>They knew the
>> allies were subhuman monsters:
>>
>   Their Japanese allies were subhuman monsters like them.

The Japanese were hardly "allies" of Germany in any real sense. They
just happened to be fighting SOME of the same people at the same time.
The Japanese are not monsters anymore than anybody else, except in
self-serving American propaganda.
>
>   Read about the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.

The Americans have left humanitarian disasters wherever they have
gone, starting with the Phillipines in the 19th century and currently
in genocidal progress in Iraq. Americans are every bit as monstrous
and savage as they hypocritically claim the Japanese to be.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:02 EDT 2009
Article: 2008616 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 5:13 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude 
>wrote:
>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>> >We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
>> >yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>
>> You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>> Germany. Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>   Hitler botched the invasion of Russia.
>
>   Had someone like Bismarck had been in charge, the Germans would
>have led a Russian army of liberation into Moscow, the path cleared by
>doses of Jewish science doled out by the kiloton.

There is no such thing as "Jewish science" except in self-serving
Jewish tribal propanda. Physics was always considered a pure science
in that it sought knowledge for its own sake, but the Americans
managed to degrade it into crass, evil utilitanianism like they have
degraded and dirtied everything else they touched.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2008617 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:25:43 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:f2geu4du0ln0q37hhi1p2nshn1990aqa6u@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:56:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Use your real name you two faced parasitic nobody.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Timmy might be alias?
>
>it sure looks that way.

It would also appear that the "Schadenfreude" clown has adopted a
false German identity, especially given that nobody would ever have a
such a last name.

I got sick of his racist anti-German propaganda and put him on a
filter to reduce clutter in this newsgroup.

>
>>
>>>kk
>>>
>>>"Tim Miller"  wrote in message
>>>news:gs6519$309$3@news.motzarella.org...
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> His posts tend to be devoid of content
>>>>
>>>> And ANOTHER set of Industrial Strength Irony Meters
>>>> is shot to hell...
>>>>
>>>> LOL!
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2008618 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:18:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 9:30 am, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in messagenews:QJydna5GHaCDznrUnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@vex.net...
>>
>> > In article <8xBFl.23732$PH1.22890@edtnps82>,
>> > Truthseeker  wrote:
>> >>Use your real name you two faced parasitic nobody.
>>
>> > Your real name is "Truthseeker?"
>>
>> No it is not but i do seek the truth what are you doing.
>> kk
>>
>   You seek the truth the same way Barney Frank seeks vaginas.
>
>   You are a Nazi.

You are a fucking idiot.

>
>   As a Nazi, you are, above all else, a craven coward.

Look in a mirror, idiot.

>
>  You are afraid to compete with others as equals because you know
>you can not measure up.

You appear to be the definition of inadequacy.
>
>   You are afraid of your own inadequacy, so you want to murder your
>betters.
>
>   You are afraid of the truth, so you want to murder those who would
>tell it.
>
>   You are afraid of history, so you want to murder the past, to wipe
>out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of
>National
>Socialism.
>
>   Finally, you are afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.
>Freedom of choice terrifies you... which is why you choose minor
>children as sexual partners. You can not interact with competent
>adults in a consensually sexual
>way.  You need to be able to impose yourself on a helpless victim, be
>it a prepubescent
>boy, or a patient in a mental hospital.
>
>   That is what you are, a Nazi, and there is nothing polite or
>honest about it.
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:03 EDT 2009
Article: 2008619 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:32:42 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 2:09 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Anyone who critics the holocaust is a nazi. What are you ?.
>> kk
>   Holocaust denial is just a propaganda campaign to make National
>Socialism an acceptable political alternative again.

Oh horseshit. Nobody with an IQ bigger than their shoe-size believes
that crap. There have been no National Socialists for over half a
century. Wake up, fool.

>
>   That is why it relies on dishonesty and invincible ignorance.

Dishonesty and invincible ignorance is the province of racist fools
such as yourself.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2008620 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:52:15 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:b3a5ae2c-4383-4d6f-99c0-bc3bed64e8b4@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 16, 2:09 pm, "Truthseeker"  wrote:
>> Anyone who critics the holocaust is a nazi. What are you ?.
>> kk
>   Holocaust denial is just a propaganda campaign to make National
>Socialism an acceptable political alternative again.
>
>   That is why it relies on dishonesty and invincible ignorance.
>
>
> Michael
>
>And just how you figure this out. Dont you think the puplic has the right to 
>find all the facts and without intimidation and hindrance.

People such as Ejaculito bend every effort to make sure that no
questions are asked. Intimidation and harassment are their basic
tools.

>Kurt Knoll.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:04 EDT 2009
Article: 2008622 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denouncing revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 15, 7:25 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:23:53 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Everyone who does not agree or believe in the Jews is a nazi.
>>
>> That seems to be the rhetoric of idiots like the mcfee/mcvay crowd.
>> For Ejaculito, "Nazi" seems to be every second word of his totally
>> senseless and ridiculous posts.
>>
>> His posts tend to be devoid of content and simply repeat the mantra
>> "Nazi" to the point of nausea.
>   Maybe it is because Nazis post on this newsgroup denying the
>Holocaust.

You are having hallucinations. There haven't been any Nazis for over
sixty years. See a psychiatrist if you are having delusions.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2008623 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:54 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Interesting we all know you think you have right to lie.

Patrick makes very extensive use of that "right".

>kk
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:ncWdnaqMArm8x3rUnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:74o1dhF12hsipU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian breached previous 
>>>court orders by publishing offensive material about Jews and the Holocaust 
>>>on a website.
>>>
>>> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Jeremy 
>>> Jones, launched a civil action against Frederick Toben after he published 
>>> claims on the Adelaide Institute's website that the holocaust never 
>>> happened.
>>>
>>> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged Holocaust 
>>> deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>>
>>> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful contempt of court 
>>> on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>>
>>> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this month.
>>>
>>> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>>
>>> "If you believe in something and you want to have that freedom to express 
>>> your opinions then you should be prepared for sacrifices," he said.
>>
>> Well, that would indicate that Toben has much more of a spine than Zundel, 
>> since Zundel decided to fight his charges not by asserting that they were 
>> true and that he truly believed them, but by asserting that he had a right 
>> to lie, which of course an admission that he never believed that what he 
>> was selling as true was true in the first place.
>>
>> Our Mr. Topaz claims that this plea for a right to lie, rather than an 
>> assertion of honest belief,  was used because Zundel feared jail: his 
>> position is that Zundel is just a coward.
>>
>> But, at any rate, Toben's issue now isn't Holocaust denial, it's respect 
>> for the law and legal systems of his country.    What he is selling has 
>> stopped being relevant.
>>
>> The courts told him to stop, and has now demonstrated that he will not do 
>> what his country's laws require.     And that's a completely different 
>> offence, and the relationship to Holocaust denial has ended.
>>
>> -pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2008625 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews orgasmic over 'Nazi' Demjanjuk deportation to Germany
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:55:29 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>What reality where is your proof he was not. After more the 50 years I would 
>recognise any of my friend in Germany if I see them Fabricating evidence is 
>where you have a master degree, Just make sure no one is checking it out.

This whole thing reeks of desperation by the holocaust™ industry.
First the insisted that the guy was Ivan the Terrible, and when that
turned out to be nonsense they are trying something else. 

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:bq2dndX6cv3Y_HrUnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>> news:G_IFl.22351$Db2.7359@edtnps83...
>>> Very interesting Patrick , what if he was only a janitor
>>
>> But nobody claims he was a janitor, do they?
>>
>> You might find it helpful to connect to reality for a change.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  would he be you guinea pig or would you be looking for another excuse. 
>>> There is no business like the shoa business. If you coach me enough and 
>>> show me how to fill out a holocaust survivor form after about half an 
>>> hour of coaching I will certainly qualify as a holocaust survivor. Ps my 
>>> income would never from being a holocaust survivor i did work for a 
>>> living.
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>> news:pcOdnXUeoe0rynrUnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:74ohgpF14d8f4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g2v8DW3HMQZ6Y10UI-GQXPnez11QD97IDTMG0
>>>>
>>>> Try to keep up.   Not only has he *not* been deported, he isn't in 
>>>> custody, either.
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090414/ap_on_re_us/demjanjuk
>>>>
>>>> "the 89-year-old retired autoworker's impending return to Germany was 
>>>> halted when three-judge panel of the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals 
>>>> granted a stay of deportation."
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:05 EDT 2009
Article: 2008628 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews: "niggers donot expel jews "
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 06:32:41 -0700 (PDT), drahcir
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 9:23 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent report rising number of racially
>> motivated verbal attacks from Hebron youths; Druze officers also suffer
>> racist remarks.

This is just standard Jewish tribalism. Jewish supremacism is just as
ugly and off-putting as any other sort. I've heard settler-talk
before, and if one didn't have a negative view of Israel at the start,
one certainly would afterwards.

>>
>> Not only do they serve long and tiring hours in the reserve forces, and not
>> only are they forced to deal with violent clashes with settlers, but now,
>> Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent are also faced with rising
>> racism.
>>
>> "Niggers don't expel Jews! This isn't what we brought you to Israel for!"
>> are just some of the degrading slurs Border Guard officers reported hearing
>> from masked settlers. During the violent clashes between Israeli forces and
>> settlers in Hebron on Tuesday "a bunch of veiled people started yelling at
>> us: Who are you to expel us from our home? An Ethiopian does not expel a
>> Jew! A nigger does not expel a Jew!" one Border Guard officer of Ethiopian
>> descent recounted.
>>
>> "I just didn't know what to do with myself," he said.
>>
>> Officers 'deeply offended' by remarks
>>
>> And it turns out this was not the only such incident to take place. Another
>> officer reported that while arriving to make an arrest about a week
>> and-a-half ago, a group of youths verbally attacked him saying, "Who told
>> you to come and evacuate us? You Ethiopians. What are you, this State's
>> niggers? Olmert's niggers?"
>>
>> The officers said they were deeply offended by these remarks, but stressed
>> that the ones making them were settler youths coming from outside of Hebron,
>> and not the residents of the Jewish settlement or Kiryat Arba, who have
>> treated them with respect.
>>
>> Border Guard sources reported that racist remarks were also made against
>> Druze soldiers. "We knew that this would happen so we instructed our
>> officers in advance," said a source.
>>
>> "We harshly condemn those extremists that bring a bad name to an entire
>> public by using racial slurs against Border Guard fighters that spend night
>> and day protecting residents of the West Bank.
>>
>>  "As part of the preparations for the mission the fighters were instructed
>> to ignore such comments and carry out their mission with the utmost
>> professionalism."
>
>Why are you so desperate to bad-mouth Jews? The above is utterly
>pathetic.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2008629 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of  contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) wrote:
>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus...
>>
>> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>>
>> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>>
>> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>>
>> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>>
>> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>
>> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>
>> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> month.
>>
>> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>
>> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> for sacrifices," he said.
>>
>> --
>> The Nizkor Project  -   An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>>     David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
>>      http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>
>What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>spews internet hate?

Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda site
full of lies and distortions.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:06 EDT 2009
Article: 2008633 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Senior BBC Reporter 'Broke Rules' by Criticizing Israel
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:22:58 -0700 (PDT), ?Love Europe, Hate the EU?
 wrote:

>In reporting about Israel, BBC's Middle East Editor has breached the
>corporation's guideline on accuracy and impartiality, an internal BBC
>complaints panel on Wednesday stated.
>
>The Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland said that the
>findings show that the BBC has an anti-Israel "bias" and that the
>position of the editor, Jeremy Bowen, is "untenable." The corporation
>rejected these claims.

It doesn't stop the Zionists from trying their intimidation
techniques. All we need to do to break the Zionist influence is to
stop listening to them. Without stooges in high places, the Zionists
wouldn't be able to dictate the policies of others.

>
>The Federation added it believed this has been "a significant
>contributor" to a recent rise in anti-Semitic incidents in the U.K.
>The Federation has called on the government to "bring the BBC under
>full regulation, like all other broadcasting media."
>
>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1078501.html
>
>This is the "trouble" with the Jews.They`re so used to getting their
>own way they just don`t know when to stop pushing. Jews have
>commandeered the mass media in the West, and now they are attacking
>the Tv stations they don't own:
>
>
>Near Total Zionist Jewish Control Of The British Media
>
> The Zionist Jews have an almost total grip on the media in Britain,
>systematically, constantly and intensely feeding their propaganda and
>example to almost everyone in Britain, which is nothing new. With this
>media, they are uniformly, deliberately, systematically, constantly
>and intensely promoting both the transformation and permanent
>destruction of Britain into a multiracial, "multicultural" state, and
>also the interests of the so-called "state of Israel", against the
>wishes and interests of the native British people. All of the
>following powerful controllers/owners are Jews:
>
>BBC television under Alan Yentob broadcasts into almost every home all
>day, every day. Likewise ITV, which is controlled by Carlton
>Communications plc under Michael Green and by Granada plc under Steve
>Morrison, each of which broadcasts to regions of 26 million, half of
>the population, or more, all day, every day. Daytime television across
>the ITV network, which broadcasts to the whole of Britain, every day,
>is mainly provided by Anglia Television under Graham Creelman, while
>the rest of the time it is controlled by the regions controlled by
>Carlton Communications plc and Granadaplc. Likewise ITN, which
>provides the news for the ITV network every day, is controlled by
>Michael Green and its programmes are broadcast to the whole of
>Britain, while Carlton and Granada jointly own the London News
>Network. Further, BSkyB controlled by Rupert Murdoch broadcasts to
>over 10 million subscribers and their families every day.
>
>Meanwhile, the main two production studios in Britain, and the largest
>in Europe, are controlled by Pinewood-Shepperton Limited, controlled
>by Michael Grade.
>
>The situation is similar in radio, with all BBC radio stations
>controlled by Jenny Abramsky, alone accounting for 49% of all radio
>listening in Britain, every day. Further, in total, over 85 million
>copies of Jewish-controlled newspapers are sold in Britain every week,
>controlled by Richard Desmond, Rupert Murdoch, Guy Zitter, the openly
>Shabbat Goy and rabidly Zionist Conrad Black and Mrs Black (Barbara
>Amiel.)
>http://www.rense.com/general38/brits.htm


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2008634 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The True Haters.
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:26:56 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 2:05 pm, ?Love Europe, Hate the EU?
> wrote:
>> The True Haters
>> by  Patrick J. Buchanan
>> 04/14/2009
>>
>> On Good Friday, John Demjanjuk, 89 and gravely ill, was ordered
>> deported to Germany to stand trial as an accessory to the murder of
>> 29,000 Jews -- at Sobibor camp in Poland.
>>
>> Sound familiar? It should. It is a re-enactment of the 1986
>> extradition of John Demjanjuk to Israel to be tried for the murder of
>> 870,000 Jews -- at Treblinka camp in Poland.
>>
>> How many men in the history of this country have been so relentlessly
>> pursued and remorselessly persecuted?
>>
>> The ordeal of this American Dreyfus began 30 years ago.
>>
>> In 1979, the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) at Justice, goaded
>> and guided by Yuri Andropov's KGB, was persuaded that Demjanjuk was
>> "Ivan the Terrible," a huge, brutal, sadistic guard at Treblinka, who
>> bashed in babies' heads and slashed off women's breasts, as he drove
>> hundreds of thousands of Jews into the gas chambers.
>>
>> Demjanjuk's defense was simple: I was never at Treblinka.
>>
>> Yet, a dozen survivors, shown a photo spread, identified him as the
>> beast of Treblinka. In 1986, OSI had him extradited to Israel. In
>> 1988, he was convicted and sentenced to death. The greatest Holocaust
>> monster since Mengele was to be hanged.
>>
>> His family, friends and lawyers did not give up. They scoured Europe
>> and, in the last days of the Soviet Union, struck pay dirt. In
>> Moscow's files on Treblinka they discovered a photo of the real
>> "Ivan," a far bigger, more mature man than the 23-year-old Demjanjuk
>> in 1943.
>>
>> Ivan Marchenko was positively identified as Ivan the Terrible.
>>
>> To its eternal credit, Israel's Supreme Court threw aside the verdict
>> and stopped Demjanjuk from being the first man hanged in Jerusalem
>> since Adolf Eichmann in 1961.
>>
>> A humiliated OSI, through its Israeli friends, now asked the court to
>> authorize a new trial, charging Demjanjuk with having been a guard at
>> Sobibor -- during the same time they previously charged he had been at
>> Treblinka.
>>
>> What OSI was admitting was that its case against Demjanjuk, to see him
>> hang from the gallows as "Ivan the Terrible," had been based on flimsy
>> or falsified evidence and worthless or perjured testimony.
>>
>> Replied the court, we don't do double jeopardy here in Israel.
>>
>> Demjanjuk was released. And the grin of the jailer who opened his cell
>> testified that many in Israel never accepted the charge that this
>> simple man was some unrivaled devil of the Holocaust.
>>
>> So, after 13 years, the last four on death row reflecting on his
>> hanging for horrors he never committed, Demjanjuk came home to
>> Cleveland, a free man. His citizenship was restored.
>>
>> Though disgraced, OSI was not ready to throw in its hand. For it had
>> been dealt a new card by its old comrades in the KGB.
>>
>> The new evidence was a signed statement by one "Danilchenko," who
>> claimed to have been a guard at Sobibor and had worked with Demjanjuk.
>> As this document would have blown up the Treblinka case in Jerusalem,
>> OSI had withheld it from the defense.
>>
>> Another document turned up suggesting that Demjanjuk had indeed, after
>> training at Trawniki camp, been assigned to Sobibor.
>>
>> When the defense asked to interrogate "Danilchenko," to verify he had
>> made and signed the statement and to question him on details, they
>> were told this was not possible. Seems Danilchenko had died after
>> signing.
>>
>> So, after the first 13 years of his ordeal took him right up to a
>> gallows in Jerusalem, Demjanjuk has now been pursued for another 17
>> years by an OSI that will not rest until he has been convicted,
>> somewhere, of genocide.
>>
>> And so we come to today.
>>
>> Demjanjuk is to be taken to Germany and prosecuted as an accessory to
>> the murder of 29,000 Jews at Sobibor -- though not one living person
>> can place him at that camp and not even the German prosecutor will say
>> that he ever hurt anyone. One witness in Israel, who was at Sobibor
>> and says he knew all the camp guards, says he never saw Demjanjuk
>> there.
>>
>> If Friday's ruling is upheld, John Demjanjuk, who has been charged
>> with no crime on German soil, is to be taken to Germany, home of the
>> Third Reich, to be tried by Germans for his alleged role in a genocide
>> planned and perpetrated by Germans. He is to serve as the sacrificial
>> lamb whose blood washes away the stain of Germany's sins.
>>
>> But if Germans wish to prosecute participants in the Holocaust, why
>> not round up some old big-time Nazis, instead of a Ukrainian POW.
>>
>> Answer: They cannot. Because the Germans voted an amnesty for
>> themselves in 1969. So now they must find a Slav soldier they captured
>> -- and Heinrich Himmler's SS conscripted and made a camp guard, if he
>> ever was a camp guard -- to punish in expiation for Germany's sins.
>>
>> The spirit behind this un-American persecution has never been that of
>> justice tempered by mercy. It is the same satanic brew of hate and
>> revenge that drove another innocent Man up Calvary that first Good
>> Friday 2,000 years ago.
>>
>> Mr. Buchanan is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of
>> Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its
>> Empire and the West Lost the World, "The Death of the West,", "The
>> Great Betrayal," "A Republic, Not an Empire" and "Where the Right Went
>> Wrong."
>>
>> Reader Comments: (603)http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31454
>
>Proper civilized behaviour would be to execute those who falsely
>accuse others.

That is why civilized countries don't have capital punishment. Courts
are notorious for coming up with Alice-in-Wonderland conclusions, so
putting people to death based on the demented pontifications of a
court is ridiculous.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2008635 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "niggers donot expel jews "
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:25:51 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:74opprF14e28mU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent report rising number of 
>> racially motivated verbal attacks from Hebron youths; Druze officers also 
>> suffer racist remarks.
>>
>> Not only do they serve long and tiring hours in the reserve forces, and 
>> not only are they forced to deal with violent clashes with settlers, but 
>> now, Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent are also faced with rising 
>> racism.
>>
>> "Niggers don't expel Jews! This isn't what we brought you to Israel for!" 
>> are just some of the degrading slurs Border Guard officers reported 
>> hearing from masked settlers. During the violent clashes between Israeli 
>> forces and settlers in Hebron on Tuesday "a bunch of veiled people started 
>> yelling at us: Who are you to expel us from our home? An Ethiopian does 
>> not expel a Jew! A nigger does not expel a Jew!" one Border Guard officer 
>> of Ethiopian descent recounted.
>>
>> "I just didn't know what to do with myself," he said.
>>
>> Officers 'deeply offended' by remarks
>>
>> And it turns out this was not the only such incident to take place. 
>> Another officer reported that while arriving to make an arrest about a 
>> week and-a-half ago, a group of youths verbally attacked him saying, "Who 
>> told you to come and evacuate us? You Ethiopians. What are you, this 
>> State's niggers? Olmert's niggers?"
>>
>> The officers said they were deeply offended by these remarks, but stressed 
>> that the ones making them were settler youths coming from outside of 
>> Hebron, and not the residents of the Jewish settlement or Kiryat Arba, who 
>> have treated them with respect.
>>
>> Border Guard sources reported that racist remarks were also made against 
>> Druze soldiers. "We knew that this would happen so we instructed our 
>> officers in advance," said a source.
>>
>> "We harshly condemn those extremists that bring a bad name to an entire 
>> public by using racial slurs against Border Guard fighters that spend 
>> night and day protecting residents of the West Bank.
>>
>> "As part of the preparations for the mission the fighters were instructed 
>> to ignore such comments and carry out their mission with the utmost 
>> professionalism."
>>
>
>I'm sure Heine has no problems w/black people whatsoever. 

That wasn't the issue here. You clearly support Jewish tribalism as
demonstrated by the settlers, so you are now trying to redirect the
discussion.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:07 EDT 2009
Article: 2008638 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:13:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  schreef in bericht 
>news:aussies_suck-24F7EE.21183516042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <74q2dqF14vjt1U1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates that 
>>> some
>>> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied Territories
>>> since 1967,
>>
>> Pali's don't live in homes. They live in
>> cardboard shacks.
>
>this is so childish a reply that i will not dignify it with a reply 

Considering that this is the work of "I'll always be", this isn't
exactly a surprise. I have yet to see a message from that guy that is
worth the energy required to type it into the newsreader.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2008639 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:31:01 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  schreef in bericht 
>news:aussies_suck-1A3FEF.01272717042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> <74qhfgF14i7c8U1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  schreef in 
>>> bericht
>>> news:aussies_suck-24F7EE.21183516042009@aries.weretis.net...
>>> > In article
>>> > <74q2dqF14vjt1U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> > "Heinrich" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates 
>>> >> that
>>> >> some
>>> >> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied 
>>> >> Territories
>>> >> since 1967,
>>> >
>>> > Pali's don't live in homes. They live in
>>> > cardboard shacks.
>>>
>>> this is so childish a reply that i will not dignify it with a reply
>>
>> Dignity from you? LOL
>
>yes why not,tell me why are you always trying to insult me? 

The man is intellectually and morally bankrupt. Insults are all that
he has in his arsenal.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:08 EDT 2009
Article: 2008640 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:43:51 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 17 Apr, 01:56, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates that some
>> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied Territories
>
>There are no "Occupied Territories" except
>those taken over by the Arab squatters.

The European Jewish colonists are the squatters.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2008644 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Woman Recalls "Horrific" Israeli Detention
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:03:03 -0700 (PDT), "The Rev\"d"
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 1:59 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> RAMALLAH - A Palestinian women freed this weeks after six years in detention
>> on charges of resisting the Israeli military occupation is speaking out
>> against "horrific mistreatment" and "hair-raising episodes" in Israeli
>> jails.
>>
>> "They beat us, they kicked us, they humiliated us. They treated us as if we
>> were animals," Sherine Sheikh Khalil, 24, told IslamOnline.net in an
>> exclusive interview.
>>
>> "It is really difficult to communicate to you the bestiality and savagery of
>> their behavior," added the young activist from the central Gaza Strip town
>> of Khan Younis.
>>
>> In 2003, then only 17, Sherine was convicted by an Israeli military court of
>> taking part in an attempted abduction of a Jewish settler in the West Bank.
>>
>> She was freed on Sunday after the end of her jail term.
>>
>> Though Sherine's father, brothers and sisters live in Ramallah, the capital
>> of the occupied West Bank, the Israeli occupation regime decided to expel
>> her to the Gaza Strip, apparently as an act of further punishment.
>>
>> "I'm happy that I'm free, but I wish I could see my family in Ramallah."
>>
>> According to Human rights groups in Gaza, Israel has deported around 30 West
>> Bankers to the coastal enclave since the beginning of Al-Aqsa Intifada in
>> late September 2000.
>>
>> Sherine describes the Israeli courts as "a system of retribution and
>> reprisal" rather than a "system of justice."
>>
>> "You can't really speak about a genuine justice system in Israel," she
>> insists.
>>
>> "We are talking about a country that sanctions murder of non-Jews, theft of
>> their property and demolition of their homes. It is a state that uses every
>> conceivable extenuating circumstances to exonerate Jewish murderers of
>> Palestinians while concocting all sorts of pretexts to condemn and
>> incriminate Palestinians."
>>
>> Sherine said the courts were no more than a tool in the hands of the Israeli
>> regime to inflict harm on the Palestinian people and give false legitimacy
>> to the military occupation.
>>
>> There are more than 11,000 Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails.
>>
>> Many of them are political activists, local politicians and community
>> leaders held for years without charge or trials.
>>
>> Human rights groups operating in the Occupied territories often call these
>> detainees "hostages" or "bargaining chips" used by Israel to wrest political
>> concessions from resistance groups and the West-backed Palestinian Authority
>> (PA).
>>
>> Draconian
>>
>> Sherine, who left behind dozens of other Palestinian women detainees, spoke
>> of an entire regime of "provocations and punishments" that is constantly
>> haunting Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails and dungeons.
>>
>> Some of the women detainees, she said, were forced to give birth in jail
>> with their hands cuffed and feet fettered with shackles.
>>
>> The Palestinian activist said the latest reprisal was transferring many of
>> Palestinian detainees into wards with Israeli hardcore criminals.
>>
>> "We are talking about people who are the lowest of the low," Sherine
>> complained.
>>
>> "So, imagine yourself spending your days and nights with murderers, drug
>> addicts, prostitutes, and all types of deviant people."
>>
>> She suspects that Israeli prison officials were conniving with the criminals
>> to harm or at least harass Palestinian detainees, something she said
>> happened on numerous occasions.
>>
>> Abdul Nasser Farwana, the head of the Statistics Department of the Prisoners'
>> Ministry in Ramallah, told IOL persecution of detainees included tightening
>> of headscarves to the point of strangulation.
>>
>> He said Israel has lately been introducing "draconian" measures against the
>> detainees for the sole purpose of "exacting revenge."
>>
>> Some of these measures are directed specifically at Hamas supporters, but
>> other detainees, including those affiliated with Fatah and the Islamic
>> Jihad, are being affected.
>>
>> A few years ago, Israel created the "Nachshon force" whose main task is to
>> suppress and savage Palestinian detainees.
>>
>> The new Israeli government, led by hawkish Benyamin Netanyahu, has admitted
>> that harsher measures are being introduced, mainly to force Hamas to relax
>> its conditions for the release of an Israeli soldier captured nearly three
>> years ago.
>>
>> This includes decreased food in both quality and quantity, confiscation of
>> transistor radios, no books, less family visits, and deliberate medical
>> negligence, which has already led to the death of at least two detainees.
>>
>> Asked what she thought was the most difficult period during her six-year
>> incarceration, Sherine said there were "ups and downs" in the level of
>> mistreatment.
>>
>> "It depends on the prison officials' mood, sometimes they would storm our
>> ward after midnight in order to frisk us. And this could be especially
>> humiliating as this is done in full view of a male officer accompanying
>> female wardens," she said.
>>
>> "You see the real motive behind this provocative act is just to humiliate us
>> and torment us emotionally. They wanted to break our will and destroy our
>> dignity. But, of course, we are stronger than all their virulent tactics."
>
>Yes, Mister Heinrich!  This is indeed horrific!
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Did your prescription of pyschiatric medication run out?

>
>The Revd iz back
>
>LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2008645 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Woman Recalls "Horrific" Israeli Detention
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:45:35 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 17 Apr, 01:59, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> RAMALLAH - A Palestinian women freed this weeks after six years in detention
>> on charges of resisting the Israeli military occupation
>
>Which doesn't exist so why pollute Usenet
>with criminal antisemitic ordure.

The West Bank and Gaza are NOT part of Israel, so Israeli actions are
indeed a military occupation, and a very brutal one at that.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:09 EDT 2009
Article: 2008646 of alt.revisionism
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 17 Apr, 10:45, Ariadne  wrote:
>> On 17 Apr, 01:59, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>> > RAMALLAH - A Palestinian women freed this weeks after six years in detention
>> > on charges of resisting the Israeli military occupation
>>
>> Which doesn't exist so why pollute Usenet
>> with criminal antisemitic ordure.
>
>And "sceptics" - if there are such honest
>people - should research the number of
>young Arabs who commit crimes against
>Israelis in order to be treated far better in
>Israeli prisons than they are in their own
>greedy, deceitful, lazy and murderous
>"society".

Greedy, deceitful, lazy and murderous rather describes Israelis and
their bankrupt society.

People are not fooled by your silly spin.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2008648 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is for Doc Tony
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:08:37 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

  [ material deleted for brevity and readability ]

> Toni. Someone with your inability to write anything
>but incomprehensible gibberish and garbage should not be so hard on
>others.

That certainly summarized "Doc" Tony rather succinctly.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:10 EDT 2009
Article: 2008927 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 7:49 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:07:03 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 15, 5:00 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>> >>  German leaders believed in death before dishonor.
>> >   And yet they ended up dishonored AND dead.
>>
>> >>They knew the
>> >> allies were subhuman monsters:
>>
>> >   Their Japanese allies were subhuman monsters like them.
>>
>> The Japanese were hardly "allies" of Germany in any real sense. They
>> just happened to be fighting SOME of the same people at the same time.
>> The Japanese are not monsters anymore than anybody else, except in
>> self-serving American propaganda.
>   Then Hitler was a fool for declaring war on the United States after
>Pearl Harbor.

That too made no difference, since the USA was hardly neutral prior to
that. The declaration was a mere formality that recognized what had
actually been the case for some years previous.

>
>   What he did was like getting into a fist fight with Joe Piscopo,
>and then kicking Mike Tyson in the nuts as he walks by.

That could be quite rational if Mike Tyson was assisting Joe.

>>
>>
>>
>> >   Read about the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.
>>
>> The Americans have left humanitarian disasters wherever they have
>> gone, starting with the Phillipines in the 19th century and currently
>> in genocidal progress in Iraq. Americans are every bit as monstrous
>> and savage as they hypocritically claim the Japanese to be.
>   What did the Americans do in the Philippines?
>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:11 EDT 2009
Article: 2008928 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:49:35 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:7v2iu492f7sll1623g8pbk2nr0eltge56g@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:49 -0400, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> >In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>> >>
>>> >>We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
>>> >>yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>> >
>>> >You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>>> >Germany.
>>>
>>> The Russians would have attacked Germany with or without Hitler.
>>
>> No they would not have.
>>
>>> > Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>>>
>>> You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
>>> German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
>>> "Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.
>>
>> Typical denier tactic: insult the other person rather than discuss the
>> issue.
>
>What insults? He's right on the money.

Welcome back. It seems that the barbarians are on the ramparts and
pouring molten lead on their heads is becoming tedious.

>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:11 EDT 2009
Article: 2008930 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:48:25 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 5:49 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:7v2iu492f7sll1623g8pbk2nr0eltge56g@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:49 -0400, in
>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>>
>> >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> >In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>> >> >>  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>> >> >>We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
>> >> >>yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>
>> >> >You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>> >> >Germany.
>>
>> >> The Russians would have attacked Germany with or without Hitler.
>>
>> > No they would not have.
>>
>> >> > Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>>
>> >> You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
>> >> German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
>> >> "Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.
>>
>> > Typical denier tactic: insult the other person rather than discuss the
>> > issue.
>>
>> What insults? He's right on the money.
>>
>   Right on the money is something deniers are not familiar with.

Yawn. You can keep spewing that shit, but heavy repetition does not
make it true.


>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:12 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:26:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:0fffa70e-f570-4e67-bac1-116e0f97a08f@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 17, 5:49 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:7v2iu492f7sll1623g8pbk2nr0eltge56g@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:49 -0400, in
>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>>
>> >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> >In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>> >> >>We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did 
>> >> >>not
>> >> >>yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>
>> >> >You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>> >> >Germany.
>>
>> >> The Russians would have attacked Germany with or without Hitler.
>>
>> > No they would not have.
>>
>> >> > Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>>
>> >> You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
>> >> German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
>> >> "Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.
>>
>> > Typical denier tactic: insult the other person rather than discuss the
>> > issue.
>>
>>> What insults? He's right on the money.
>>>
>
>>   Right on the money is something deniers are not familiar with.
>
>Who's a denier? I don't know anyone who flat out denies the Holocaust(tm). I 
>do know many people who question the yid version of events. The version that 
>is protected from scrutiny or challenge by legislation.
>
>
>
The "denier" is another synthetic propaganda demon created by the
holocaust™ industry. I totally reject their silly demonology along
with the rest of their superstitions and fables.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:12 EDT 2009
Article: 2008933 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:15:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 7:54 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 15, 5:13 pm, Klaus Schadenfreude 
>> >wrote:
>> >> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>
>> >> >  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>
>> >> >We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did not
>> >> >yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>
>> >> You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>> >> Germany. Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>> >   Hitler botched the invasion of Russia.
>>
>> >   Had someone like Bismarck had been in charge, the Germans would
>> >have led a Russian army of liberation into Moscow, the path cleared by
>> >doses of Jewish science doled out by the kiloton.
>>
>> There is no such thing as "Jewish science" except in self-serving
>> Jewish tribal propanda. Physics was always considered a pure science
>> in that it sought knowledge for its own sake, but the Americans
>> managed to degrade it into crass, evil utilitanianism like they have
>> degraded and dirtied everything else they touched.
>   Hitler and the Nazis called nuclear physics "Jewish science".

Most of the physicists involved in nuclear theory were not Jewish. I
rather doubt that anybody would have called nuclear physics "Jewish
science".


>
>   If only they experienced "Jewish science" first hand.
>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:12 EDT 2009
Article: 2008936 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Book Challenged as Untrue and Anti-German Hate Propaganda
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:41:47 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Doc Tony"  wrote in message 
>news:AbedncyPDtImz3TUnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@posted.localnet...
>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:2saiu4l27tpn02q4osnn925kh5qu7v0rtu@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:28:35 +1000, in
>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:t9udnWixkaqj_3rUnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>>>> > news:f6JFl.22355$Db2.16532@edtnps83...
>>>>> >> Interesting Patrick all Jews did have a mouthful of golden teeth
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Did they, now, Kurt?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you listen to the hebes  - yes they did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Haven't you heard of the hebe's accounts of a virtual (dis)assembly 
>>>>> line
>>>>> setup to remove the gold teeth and bridges from the mouths of the yids?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where have you been?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where have *you* been?
>>>
>>>
>>> Visiting family in Norway and working in the ME.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ben, fess up, the bizz trips to the "Promised Land", can you share the 
>> nature of the 'business' that brings you to Israel or is that classified 
>> info ?
>
>Hi Tony
>
>Not classified but there is a commercial in confidence element to consider. 
>One job is related to the (hopefully) establishment of a seaport in Gaza and 
>some other things maritime. The other job was an IT security audit, failover 
>test and testing of crisis management plans.
>
>>Hey, as an aside, I get the feeling that "Papagei®" Ebe may be making a 
>>'partnership approach' on you very shortly because his outreach to Frank 
>>"Ausländer RAUS!®" Bügel may not pan out. I know Frank some years now and 
>>while we're 180 apart on view, well, I'm not so sure that Ebe's wanting 
>>Germany to go the way of the DDR and disappear, at least in favor of 
>>another unnamed political system more to Ebe's liking as Ebe no doubt sits 
>>and listens to the 'Horst Wessel Lied' with tears in his eyes,
>
>You've read him entirely incorrectly. In my opinion he is certainly no Nazi, 
>nor is he hankering for a return to the days of the Third Reich.

Poor "Doc" Tony suffers from delusions. I regard him as a clown whose
posts are devoid of meaningful content.

>
>>anyway, the sort of Teddy K. cloned 'Germany Must Perish' thing may not, 
>>IMO, appeal to Frank as Frank seems content with the Heimat of today 'as 
>>is', warts and all so to speak, and as Frank sees it and except for those 
>>Frank Bügel pesky 'foreigners' and hence the moniker I gave him.
>>
>> Anyway, I'll be interested to see how Ebe makes his pitch to you
>
>Johannes will not be making any such approach. We have communicated in the 
>past, agreed on certain topics, disagreed on others. We will continue to do 
>so from time to time on an ad hoc basis.
>
>>unless, of course, you're open for such a partnership in the absence of 
>>your mate, Ross. Speaking of which, what's the word on Ross and is he still 
>>into the Emu thing?
>
>I have no idea where Ross is at the moment. I emailed him some time back but 
>received no response. Some tosser has been forging his name (and others 
>including yours truly) on this forum recently.
>
>>Anyway, back to my opening comment, what's with these "Promised Land" 
>>business trips -- what kind of 'business' are we talking about here  .. 
>>just curious on that one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Doc Tony
>> ;-)
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:13 EDT 2009
Article: 2008945 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:21:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:k0biu4hlj2e4c7ithv66h1h2cs8gntrudj@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:47:26 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:i37iu4pu2mavok4olnsvdrp9qmseq0dkqg@4ax.com...
>>> > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:26:59 +0200, in
>>> > <74o1dhF12hsipU1@mid.individual.net>, "Heinrich"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian breached 
>>> >> previous
>>> >> court orders by publishing offensive material about Jews and the
>>> >> Holocaust
>>> >> on a website.
>>> >>
>>> >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, 
>>> >> Jeremy
>>> >> Jones, launched a civil action against Frederick Toben after he 
>>> >> published
>>> >> claims on the Adelaide Institute's website that the holocaust never
>>> >> happened.
>>> >>
>>> >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged Holocaust
>>> >> deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>> >>
>>> >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful contempt of 
>>> >> court
>>> >> on
>>> >> 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>> >>
>>> >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this month.
>>> >>
>>> >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>> >
>>> > Anyone that stupid has to be a denier.
>>>
>>> Anyone with that strength of character and conviction should be 
>>> applauded.
>>
>> ROTFL!
>
>Strength of character, I see is an alien concept to you, old feller.

Poor little mcfee is out of his mind. Nobody offers themselves as a
martyr for a cause they themselves believe to be false. It is
possible, obviously, for Dr. Toben to be mistaken, like any human, but
it is extremely improbable that he is consciously sacrificing his life
for a premise he believes to be false. I doubt that Dr. Toben is
mistaken. The powers that are imprisoning him obviously find him a
threat.

>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:13 EDT 2009
Article: 2008956 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:26:58 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Ariadne"  wrote in message 
>news:c1c35eae-85b5-4ec5-9dd5-b4f3a042faaf@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>> On 17 Apr, 01:56, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates that 
>>> some
>>> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied Territories
>>
>> There are no "Occupied Territories" except
>> those taken over by the Arab squatters.
>
>Which is, of course, another typical yid lie.

It is an absolute reversal of reality. It isn't the indigenous Arabs
who are the squatters. This is colonialism of the worst kind
orchestrated by European Jews. Many of the Palestinian Jews were not
thrilled by the concept of "neo-Israel" created by force by the
Zionists.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:13 EDT 2009
Article: 2008957 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Woman Recalls "Horrific" Israeli Detention
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:57:59 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>I'm sure she's used to this treatment if she's a palesimian,
>after all beating your wife like a farm animal is part and parcel
>of the muslime pig faith.

You're a simian as well, "Doug", so what is your point, other than the
top of your head?

Your tripe is exactly what you detest when it is directed at you. You
are a bigot and your comments are worthless.

>
>"The Rev"d"  wrote in message 
>news:456aedf4-8080-4d90-a674-d94f132804a8@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 17, 1:59 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> RAMALLAH - A Palestinian women freed this weeks after six years in 
>> detention
>> on charges of resisting the Israeli military occupation is speaking out
>> against "horrific mistreatment" and "hair-raising episodes" in Israeli
>> jails.
>>
>> "They beat us, they kicked us, they humiliated us. They treated us as if 
>> we
>> were animals," Sherine Sheikh Khalil, 24, told IslamOnline.net in an
>> exclusive interview.
>>
>> "It is really difficult to communicate to you the bestiality and savagery 
>> of
>> their behavior," added the young activist from the central Gaza Strip town
>> of Khan Younis.
>>
>> In 2003, then only 17, Sherine was convicted by an Israeli military court 
>> of
>> taking part in an attempted abduction of a Jewish settler in the West 
>> Bank.
>>
>> She was freed on Sunday after the end of her jail term.
>>
>> Though Sherine's father, brothers and sisters live in Ramallah, the 
>> capital
>> of the occupied West Bank, the Israeli occupation regime decided to expel
>> her to the Gaza Strip, apparently as an act of further punishment.
>>
>> "I'm happy that I'm free, but I wish I could see my family in Ramallah."
>>
>> According to Human rights groups in Gaza, Israel has deported around 30 
>> West
>> Bankers to the coastal enclave since the beginning of Al-Aqsa Intifada in
>> late September 2000.
>>
>> Sherine describes the Israeli courts as "a system of retribution and
>> reprisal" rather than a "system of justice."
>>
>> "You can't really speak about a genuine justice system in Israel," she
>> insists.
>>
>> "We are talking about a country that sanctions murder of non-Jews, theft 
>> of
>> their property and demolition of their homes. It is a state that uses 
>> every
>> conceivable extenuating circumstances to exonerate Jewish murderers of
>> Palestinians while concocting all sorts of pretexts to condemn and
>> incriminate Palestinians."
>>
>> Sherine said the courts were no more than a tool in the hands of the 
>> Israeli
>> regime to inflict harm on the Palestinian people and give false legitimacy
>> to the military occupation.
>>
>> There are more than 11,000 Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails.
>>
>> Many of them are political activists, local politicians and community
>> leaders held for years without charge or trials.
>>
>> Human rights groups operating in the Occupied territories often call these
>> detainees "hostages" or "bargaining chips" used by Israel to wrest 
>> political
>> concessions from resistance groups and the West-backed Palestinian 
>> Authority
>> (PA).
>>
>> Draconian
>>
>> Sherine, who left behind dozens of other Palestinian women detainees, 
>> spoke
>> of an entire regime of "provocations and punishments" that is constantly
>> haunting Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails and dungeons.
>>
>> Some of the women detainees, she said, were forced to give birth in jail
>> with their hands cuffed and feet fettered with shackles.
>>
>> The Palestinian activist said the latest reprisal was transferring many of
>> Palestinian detainees into wards with Israeli hardcore criminals.
>>
>> "We are talking about people who are the lowest of the low," Sherine
>> complained.
>>
>> "So, imagine yourself spending your days and nights with murderers, drug
>> addicts, prostitutes, and all types of deviant people."
>>
>> She suspects that Israeli prison officials were conniving with the 
>> criminals
>> to harm or at least harass Palestinian detainees, something she said
>> happened on numerous occasions.
>>
>> Abdul Nasser Farwana, the head of the Statistics Department of the 
>> Prisoners'
>> Ministry in Ramallah, told IOL persecution of detainees included 
>> tightening
>> of headscarves to the point of strangulation.
>>
>> He said Israel has lately been introducing "draconian" measures against 
>> the
>> detainees for the sole purpose of "exacting revenge."
>>
>> Some of these measures are directed specifically at Hamas supporters, but
>> other detainees, including those affiliated with Fatah and the Islamic
>> Jihad, are being affected.
>>
>> A few years ago, Israel created the "Nachshon force" whose main task is to
>> suppress and savage Palestinian detainees.
>>
>> The new Israeli government, led by hawkish Benyamin Netanyahu, has 
>> admitted
>> that harsher measures are being introduced, mainly to force Hamas to relax
>> its conditions for the release of an Israeli soldier captured nearly three
>> years ago.
>>
>> This includes decreased food in both quality and quantity, confiscation of
>> transistor radios, no books, less family visits, and deliberate medical
>> negligence, which has already led to the death of at least two detainees.
>>
>> Asked what she thought was the most difficult period during her six-year
>> incarceration, Sherine said there were "ups and downs" in the level of
>> mistreatment.
>>
>> "It depends on the prison officials' mood, sometimes they would storm our
>> ward after midnight in order to frisk us. And this could be especially
>> humiliating as this is done in full view of a male officer accompanying
>> female wardens," she said.
>>
>> "You see the real motive behind this provocative act is just to humiliate 
>> us
>> and torment us emotionally. They wanted to break our will and destroy our
>> dignity. But, of course, we are stronger than all their virulent tactics."
>
>Yes, Mister Heinrich!  This is indeed horrific!
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
>
>The Revd iz back
>
>LOL 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:14 EDT 2009
Article: 2008958 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Woman Recalls "Horrific" Israeli Detention
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:03:38 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>news:5K1Gl.19056$as4.11681@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> I'm sure she's used to this treatment if she's a palesimian,
>> after all beating your wife like a farm animal is part and parcel
>> of the muslime pig faith.
> you sound so frustrated my friend how come? 

His three functional neurons are in overload.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:14 EDT 2009
Article: 2008959 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Woman Recalls "Horrific" Israeli Detention
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <74q2isF149u3aU1@mid.individual.net> <456aedf4-8080-4d90-a674-d94f132804a8@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <5K1Gl.19056$as4.11681@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> <74rujpF155uj0U1@mid.individual.net> 
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:58:46 -0700, "ÇDoügßT"  wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:74rujpF155uj0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "ÇDoügßT"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:5K1Gl.19056$as4.11681@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> I'm sure she's used to this treatment if she's a palesimian,
>>> after all beating your wife like a farm animal is part and parcel
>>> of the muslime pig faith.
>> you sound so frustrated my friend how come?
>
>Because I can't meet you face to face to discuss
>your Jewish problem. 

Please deal with your anti-Muslim bigotry first.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:14 EDT 2009
Article: 2008962 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is for Doc Tony
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:59:22 -0700 (PDT), rogercarpenter97@yahoo.com
wrote:

>On Apr 17, 6:35 pm, Doc Tony  wrote:
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> > On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:08:37 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >   [ material deleted for brevity and readability ]
>>
>> >>Toni. Someone with your inability to write anything
>> >>but incomprehensible gibberish and garbage should not be so hard on
>> >>others.
>>
>> > That certainly summarized "Doc" Tony rather succinctly.
>>
>> Readers! Get this for Papagei® Ebe's 14EEE [and growing by the day] HUGE
>> cleated track shoes! Ebe continues to run and hide from me while reduced
>> to commenting on now 3rd level drool droppings from his buddy, "Sneak
>> Oil®" Istvan, as then copied and further hauled by Ebe's, shall we again
>> say, "sympathetic EAR" [!] and apparent new ad hoc AR mentor and advisor
>> , Kurt "alte Puppe®" Knoll! Whew! Ya' gotta' love it! I certainly do as
>> the satiric pickings are the best I've encountered in AR, I mean, hey,
>> "Papagei®" Ebe, "Sneak Oil®" Istvan and Kurt "alte Puppe®" Knoll, the
>> voiced 3-Dümmling 'representatives' [!] of revisionism. And the
>> Movement®. Listen again for their echo [in German and Istvan handed a
>> paper to 'phonetically' pronounce the German] ... Halllllloooooo ...
>> Hallloooooooo...Halllllooooooo! Hallo, Kamerad!"  [!]
>>
>> Doc Tony
>> ;-)
>>
>> Catch Ebe's other "finding" in another thread where he declares to
>> another poster that there is no more 'National Socialism' -- now that
>> was fun! It's almost as if Ebe was doing the Henry Gibson
>> 'Obergruppenführer' role in the "Blues Brothers" [1980]  flick. As I've
>> said before, AR is a veritable satirist's paradise! It truly is!
>>
>> "Papagei®" Ebe: [AGAIN making with the 'Teddy K' mantra!]: "GERMANY MUST
>> PERISH!"
>>
>> Frank "Ausländer RAUS®!®" Bügel: "Get a friggin' grip, Ebe! You're
>> becoming an embarrassment to the Movement® and the Kameraden!"
>>
>> Ebe: [feels insulted now! Goes on the 'offensive' to Frank!] : "Just the
>> kind of 'crap talk' I'd expect to hear from a former DDR and obviously
>> out of the loop drifter! And it's not 'Ebe', it's 'Herr von Ebersdorf'
>> to you!" [** Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!]
>>
>> Bügel: "I see. Well, 'Herrrrrrrrrr' von Ebersdorf, do you carry dental
>> insurance?"
>>
>> Ebe: "Yeah, so what?"
>>
>> < B A N G ! >  A square fist right to the choppers! Big time!
>>
>> Bügel: "Good! Now you'll get to see what it covers ... and what it
>> doesn't cover!"
>>
>> ;-)
>
>Poor Toni, off the medication again :)

It certainly sounds that way, doesn't it, and that despite the fact
that Germany has a rather good medical plan, if he indeed even lives
there. He seems to pump out his stuff in the middle of the night.
Perhaps his dementia is caused by lack of sleep?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2008964 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is for Doc Tony
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:22:52 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>You just exposed your character Kenny my Boy. Cutting out what the previous 
>poster write is only a matter of deception and we all  know it.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>Like it or not what I posted here are the blain facts and the whole world
>knows about it. Looking ant you is like little kids growing up, Sometimes
>the do com home with fakes stories and if anyone believes it the stories are
>getting bigger. If parents do not but on the brake the kids grow up as
>gangsters at the end. Learn from it you two faced sucker.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:PuydnZdynateJHXUnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The besotted Intellectual Leader of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Canary Yellow Chicken Legion
>> Tutu with the "I am knolling" Cross and  wrote:
>>
>>>Like it or not what I posted here are the blain facts and the whole world
>>
>> Here are the "blain facts," Frau Pikelhaube:
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes

You failed to prove that these shoes belonged to "victims". Anybody
can set up a pyramid of shoes, photograph the pyramid and claim
anything at all in the caption. I've seen far too many real
photographs with false and deceptive captions to be pulled in by this
ruse.

>> with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>> were lying.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> "Fritz is making of himself the Brittany Spears of the
>> revisionist world..." (Bradley Smith of Friedrich Paul
>> Berg, Leading Revisionist Scholars both, on Bradley
>> Smith's Mailing List, Jan. 18, 2008) 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:15 EDT 2009
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Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:25:12 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:jeaiu4tfih4efc0hv6tnp4gj3a5j1268dk@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:49:35 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:7v2iu492f7sll1623g8pbk2nr0eltge56g@4ax.com...
>>> > On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:49 -0400, in
>>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:13:04 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>  Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>We had no idea of the danger that threatened us then. I myself did 
>>> >> >>not
>>> >> >>yet know Marxism well enough to foresee the possible consequences.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >You can thank Mr. Hitler for bringing the wrath of the Russians on
>>> >> >Germany.
>>> >>
>>> >> The Russians would have attacked Germany with or without Hitler.
>>> >
>>> > No they would not have.
>>> >
>>> >> > Germany got almost everything it deserved.
>>> >>
>>> >> You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
>>> >> German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
>>> >> "Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.
>>> >
>>> > Typical denier tactic: insult the other person rather than discuss the
>>> > issue.
>>>
>>> What insults? He's right on the money.
>>
>> Good heavens, look what the wind blew in.
>>
>> He's kill filing everyone, Ben.  No balls at all.
>
>I see it more as a very low level of tolerance for dickheads.

Once again mcfee is wrong. I'm not killfiling "everyone", only the
absolute worst of the rude and ignorant disrupters of this newsgroup.
You are quite right, in that my patience with cretins like mcfee or
"Doc" Tony is not unlimited.

>>
>> Hope you are well.
>
>Thank you Gord. I'm positively bursting with energy. Throbbing like a sock 
>full of grasshoppers.
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:15 EDT 2009
Article: 2008966 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of  contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <89909eb7-1c55-4fb8-a046-11d5302e0e7d@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>   <4c18fa2a-1376-4fe1-93b6-6b21eb729caf@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:44:08 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 11:13 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) wrote:
>> >>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus...
>>
>> >> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> >> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> >> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>>
>> >> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>>
>> >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> >> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> >> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>>
>> >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> >> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> >> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> >> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>>
>> >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> >> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>
>> >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> >> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>
>> >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> >> month.
>>
>> >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>
>> >> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> >> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> >> for sacrifices," he said.
>>
>> >> --
>> >> The Nizkor Project  -   An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> >>     David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
>> >>      http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>>
>> >What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>> >spews internet hate?
>>
>> Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda site
>> full of lies and distortions.
>
>I know.  They(Nizkor) are so full of judgment for those they deem
>hateful.  Yet when one of their spokesneutered males (aka long legged
>mac daddy) comes out and says that German bakers, pregnant women,
>children and old men as well as young men deserved to be burned to
>death, they refuse to own up to the fact that they are spewing
>hatred.  Salzman is guilty of this type of hate as well.  When I
>stated that ethnic Germans were cruelized supremely after WWII(and
>during) she said:  'Well I guess the Germans shouldn't have started
>the war then.'  Stupid beligerant response.  First of all, it's up for
>debate whether or not Germany started the war.  Second of all, some
>peasant plowing his fields in Hungary did not start the war.  Yet by
>following Salzman's logic, he/she(the poor worker) deserved to be
>burned to death, to be sent to the Ukraine coal mines to more or less
>die, to have their lands confiscated etc. etc. etc.  The biggest
>haters here are long legged mac daddy, followed by salzman followed by
>the others.  Bruno's too blinded to understand what exactly happened
>during WWII and is enraptured by the shitty US military.

Most of the mcfee/mcfay crew seem to be absolutely consumed by
irrational hatred. They really are rather pathetic to behold.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2008967 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of contempt
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:38:54 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article 
><4c18fa2a-1376-4fe1-93b6-6b21eb729caf@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>
>> On Apr 17, 11:13 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  wrote:
>> > >On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) wrote:
>> > >>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus...
>> >
>> > >> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> > >> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> > >> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>> >
>> > >> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>> >
>> > >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> > >> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> > >> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>> >
>> > >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> > >> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> > >> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> > >> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>> >
>> > >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> > >> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>> >
>> > >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> > >> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>> >
>> > >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> > >> month.
>> >
>> > >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>> >
>> > >> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> > >> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> > >> for sacrifices," he said.
>> >
>> > >> --
>> > >> The Nizkor Project  -   An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> > >>     David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: 
>> > >> Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.h
>> > >> tml
>> > >>      http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>> >
>> > >What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>> > >spews internet hate?
>> >
>> > Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda site
>> > full of lies and distortions.
>> 
>> I know.  They(Nizkor) are so full of judgment for those they deem
>> hateful.  Yet when one of their spokesneutered males (aka long legged
>> mac daddy) comes out and says that German bakers, pregnant women,
>> children and old men as well as young men deserved to be burned to
>> death, they refuse to own up to the fact that they are spewing
>> hatred.  Salzman is guilty of this type of hate as well.  When I
>> stated that ethnic Germans were cruelized supremely after WWII(and
>> during) she said:  'Well I guess the Germans shouldn't have started
>> the war then.'  Stupid beligerant response.  First of all, it's up for
>> debate whether or not Germany started the war.  Second of all, some
>> peasant plowing his fields in Hungary did not start the war.  Yet by
>> following Salzman's logic, he/she(the poor worker) deserved to be
>> burned to death, to be sent to the Ukraine coal mines to more or less
>> die, to have their lands confiscated etc. etc. etc.  The biggest
>> haters here are long legged mac daddy, followed by salzman followed by
>> the others.  Bruno's too blinded to understand what exactly happened
>> during WWII and is enraptured by the shitty US military.
>
>I don't believe I ever said anything of the sort. Can you provide a 
>reference for this statement you claim I made?

Oh come on, Sara. You are simply Germanophobic, and any harm to
Germans, young or old, is a good thing by you. Being ethnically
German, even if you or your forebears haven't been in Germany for most
of a thousand years, is enough to put one on your hate list. You are
exactly like the Nazis you like to excoriate, and you differ mainly in
your demonology not in your mindset or your basic methods.

>
>Sara


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:16 EDT 2009
Article: 2008968 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:14:47 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article 
>,
> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>
>> On Apr 17, 8:38 pm, Sara Salzman  wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <4c18fa2a-1376-4fe1-93b6-6b21eb729...@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>> >  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Apr 17, 11:13 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >
>> > > >  wrote:
>> > > > >On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) wrote:
>> > > > >>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus.
>> > > > >>..
>> >
>> > > > >> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> > > > >> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> > > > >> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>> >
>> > > > >> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>> >
>> > > > >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> > > > >> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> > > > >> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>> >
>> > > > >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> > > > >> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> > > > >> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> > > > >> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>> >
>> > > > >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> > > > >> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>> >
>> > > > >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> > > > >> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>> >
>> > > > >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> > > > >> month.
>> >
>> > > > >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>> >
>> > > > >> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> > > > >> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> > > > >> for sacrifices," he said.
>> >
>> > > > >> --
>> > > > >> The Nizkor Project  -   An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> > > > >>     David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd:
>> > > > >> Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-
>> > > > >> 00.h
>> > > > >> tml
>> > > > >>      http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>> >
>> > > > >What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>> > > > >spews internet hate?
>> >
>> > > > Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda site
>> > > > full of lies and distortions.
>> >
>> > > I know.  They(Nizkor) are so full of judgment for those they deem
>> > > hateful.  Yet when one of their spokesneutered males (aka long legged
>> > > mac daddy) comes out and says that German bakers, pregnant women,
>> > > children and old men as well as young men deserved to be burned to
>> > > death, they refuse to own up to the fact that they are spewing
>> > > hatred.  Salzman is guilty of this type of hate as well.  When I
>> > > stated that ethnic Germans were cruelized supremely after WWII(and
>> > > during) she said:  'Well I guess the Germans shouldn't have started
>> > > the war then.'  Stupid beligerant response.  First of all, it's up for
>> > > debate whether or not Germany started the war.  Second of all, some
>> > > peasant plowing his fields in Hungary did not start the war.  Yet by
>> > > following Salzman's logic, he/she(the poor worker) deserved to be
>> > > burned to death, to be sent to the Ukraine coal mines to more or less
>> > > die, to have their lands confiscated etc. etc. etc.  The biggest
>> > > haters here are long legged mac daddy, followed by salzman followed by
>> > > the others.  Bruno's too blinded to understand what exactly happened
>> > > during WWII and is enraptured by the shitty US military.
>> >
>> > I don't believe I ever said anything of the sort. Can you provide a
>> > reference for this statement you claim I made?
>> >
>> > Sara
>> 
>> Yes you did say that.  Your response to my post where I stated that
>> ethnic Germans were murdered during and after WWII was:  'Well I guess
>> the Germans shouldn't have started the war then.'  You justify
>> murdering tens of thousands because some politicians started the war.
>> And no, I am not going on some time consuming wild goose chase because
>> you are in denial.  You must know that you posted this type of
>> statement.
>> 
>> >
>> > --
>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>> >
>> >  - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08
>
>NO, I do NOT know that I posted any such thing.

You have written all manner of stuff along the same racist,
Germanophic lines, but unlike mcvay, I don't archive everything people
say in order to throw it back at them at some convenient time.

For your bunch, somebody else having supposedly started a war excuses
all your crimes. That position just doesn't wash.

By your reasoning, if my neighbour vandalizes my car, I am then
entitled to take any revenge, no matter how demented, to get even,
including murdering him, his wife, his children, his siblings and
their children. Canadian courts would not see the situation in your
simple-minded logic that a perceived tort justifies any and all
possible responses.






> That's why I'm asking 
>for a reference. The average four-year-old understands a statement like 
>that. Just reproducing your accusation a second time is NOT the same 
>thing as producing proof that I said it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2008969 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of contempt
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:46:12 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:ef589a80-62e6-45e7-9b2e-dbd03ee4eca6@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 17, 8:38 pm, Sara Salzman  wrote:
>> In article
>> <4c18fa2a-1376-4fe1-93b6-6b21eb729...@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 17, 11:13 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > >On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) wrote:
>> > > >>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus...
>>
>> > > >> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> > > >> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> > > >> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>>
>> > > >> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>>
>> > > >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> > > >> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> > > >> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>>
>> > > >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> > > >> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> > > >> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> > > >> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>>
>> > > >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> > > >> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>
>> > > >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> > > >> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>
>> > > >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> > > >> month.
>>
>> > > >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>
>> > > >> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> > > >> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> > > >> for sacrifices," he said.
>>
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> > > >> David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd:
>> > > >> Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.h
>> > > >> tml
>> > > >> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>>
>> > > >What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>> > > >spews internet hate?
>>
>> > > Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda site
>> > > full of lies and distortions.
>>
>> > I know. They(Nizkor) are so full of judgment for those they deem
>> > hateful. Yet when one of their spokesneutered males (aka long legged
>> > mac daddy) comes out and says that German bakers, pregnant women,
>> > children and old men as well as young men deserved to be burned to
>> > death, they refuse to own up to the fact that they are spewing
>> > hatred. Salzman is guilty of this type of hate as well. When I
>> > stated that ethnic Germans were cruelized supremely after WWII(and
>> > during) she said: 'Well I guess the Germans shouldn't have started
>> > the war then.' Stupid beligerant response. First of all, it's up for
>> > debate whether or not Germany started the war. Second of all, some
>> > peasant plowing his fields in Hungary did not start the war. Yet by
>> > following Salzman's logic, he/she(the poor worker) deserved to be
>> > burned to death, to be sent to the Ukraine coal mines to more or less
>> > die, to have their lands confiscated etc. etc. etc. The biggest
>> > haters here are long legged mac daddy, followed by salzman followed by
>> > the others. Bruno's too blinded to understand what exactly happened
>> > during WWII and is enraptured by the shitty US military.
>>
>> I don't believe I ever said anything of the sort. Can you provide a
>> reference for this statement you claim I made?
>>
>> Sara
>
>>Yes you did say that.  Your response to my post where I stated that
>>ethnic Germans were murdered during and after WWII was:  'Well I guess
>>the Germans shouldn't have started the war then.'  You justify
>>murdering tens of thousands because some politicians started the war.
>>And no, I am not going on some time consuming wild goose chase because
>>you are in denial.  You must know that you posted this type of
>>statement.
>
>
>Hahahahahaha.  She's gonna have you jumping through hoops until you produce 
>the exact post. Even then, if there is a single comma out of place, she'll 
>call you a liar. It's what she does.

I've seen that routine enough times.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:17 EDT 2009
Article: 2008970 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust denier guilty of contemptHolocaust denier guilty of contempt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:05:27 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:8558be1a-abe0-4d3d-a0f0-6c53f40b925a@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 18, 7:46 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in 
>> messagenews:ef589a80-62e6-45e7-9b2e-dbd03ee4eca6@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 17, 8:38 pm, Sara Salzman  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article
>> > <4c18fa2a-1376-4fe1-93b6-6b21eb729...@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>
>> > > On Apr 17, 11:13 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>
>> > > >  wrote:
>> > > > >On Apr 16, 11:40 am, niz...@shell.vex.net (The Nizkor Project) 
>> > > > >wrote:
>> > > > >>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/16/2544811.htm?section=aus...
>>
>> > > > >> Holocaust denier guilty of contempt
>> > > > >> Posted April 16, 2009 15:17:00
>> > > > >> Updated April 16, 2009 15:55:00
>>
>> > > > >> Frederick Toben: 'prepared for sacrifices' (ABC News)
>>
>> > > > >> A federal court has ruled that a revisionist historian
>> > > > >> breached previous court orders by publishing offensive
>> > > > >> material about Jews and the Holocaust on a website.
>>
>> > > > >> The former president of the Executive Council of Australian
>> > > > >> Jewry, Jeremy Jones, launched a civil action against
>> > > > >> Frederick Toben after he published claims on the Adelaide
>> > > > >> Institute's website that the holocaust never happened.
>>
>> > > > >> The material also implied that Jewish people who challenged
>> > > > >> Holocaust deniers were of limited intelligence.
>>
>> > > > >> Justice Lander today has found Toben guilty of wilful
>> > > > >> contempt of court on 24 out of 28 possible counts.
>>
>> > > > >> The court will decide his penalty at a further hearing this
>> > > > >> month.
>>
>> > > > >> Dr Toben says he does not regret his actions.
>>
>> > > > >> "If you believe in something and you want to have that
>> > > > >> freedom to express your opinions then you should be prepared
>> > > > >> for sacrifices," he said.
>>
>> > > > >> --
>> > > > >> The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> > > > >> David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd:
>> > > > >> Judgmenthttp://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.h
>> > > > >> tml
>> > > > >>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
>>
>> > > > >What do you think should be the proper punishment for someone who
>> > > > >spews internet hate?
>>
>> > > > Hatred is nizkor's stock in trade. It is a disgusting propaganda 
>> > > > site
>> > > > full of lies and distortions.
>>
>> > > I know. They(Nizkor) are so full of judgment for those they deem
>> > > hateful. Yet when one of their spokesneutered males (aka long legged
>> > > mac daddy) comes out and says that German bakers, pregnant women,
>> > > children and old men as well as young men deserved to be burned to
>> > > death, they refuse to own up to the fact that they are spewing
>> > > hatred. Salzman is guilty of this type of hate as well. When I
>> > > stated that ethnic Germans were cruelized supremely after WWII(and
>> > > during) she said: 'Well I guess the Germans shouldn't have started
>> > > the war then.' Stupid beligerant response. First of all, it's up for
>> > > debate whether or not Germany started the war. Second of all, some
>> > > peasant plowing his fields in Hungary did not start the war. Yet by
>> > > following Salzman's logic, he/she(the poor worker) deserved to be
>> > > burned to death, to be sent to the Ukraine coal mines to more or less
>> > > die, to have their lands confiscated etc. etc. etc. The biggest
>> > > haters here are long legged mac daddy, followed by salzman followed by
>> > > the others. Bruno's too blinded to understand what exactly happened
>> > > during WWII and is enraptured by the shitty US military.
>>
>> > I don't believe I ever said anything of the sort. Can you provide a
>> > reference for this statement you claim I made?
>>
>> > Sara
>> >Yes you did say that. Your response to my post where I stated that
>> >ethnic Germans were murdered during and after WWII was: 'Well I guess
>> >the Germans shouldn't have started the war then.' You justify
>> >murdering tens of thousands because some politicians started the war.
>> >And no, I am not going on some time consuming wild goose chase because
>> >you are in denial. You must know that you posted this type of
>> >statement.
>>
>>> Hahahahahaha. She's gonna have you jumping through hoops until you 
>>> produce
>>> the exact post. Even then, if there is a single comma out of place, 
>>> she'll
>>> call you a liar. It's what she does.
>
>>You're right there Ben.  But guess what?  I found her posting which
>>was posted on Aug. 20 last year.
>>I never expected her to deny what she had posted.  But she did and
>>here is the evidence:
>
>Jolly good show. That should shut the nasty harpie up and elicit from her an 
>unreserved apology.

It should, but it isn't likely to do so.

>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/browse_thread/thread/824c438d56acb392/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2008971 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honsik on trial for denying holocaust
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:40:45 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:NuSFl.22487$Db2.14977@edtnps83...
>> Interesting so anyone who does not agree with you is breaking the law.
>
>No, once again, you pretend to not understand what you read.
>
>People in a specific jurisdiciton who promote an ideology that caused the 
>death and enslavement of millions,  and attempt to excuse the crimes 
>committed by in its name, are breaking the law.

The allies did the same thing, but they are apparently excused by
virtue of being allies. The allies enslaved millions, postwar, in
crass violation of all the norms of international law.

>
>There are lots of people who don't agree with me, or you.   That doesn't 
>mean they are breaking the law.
>
>You're only *pretending* to not get this, aren't you?
>
>-pk
>
>
>>  What else is there for you to screw the whole world.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:74q6r2F14ogrtU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Holocaust denier Gerd Honsik is to go on trial next week for promoting 
>>> Nazi ideology.
>>>
>>> Honsik, 68, is facing 28 counts of breaking laws prohibiting activities 
>>> supporting the Nazi regime and could be jailed for up to 20 years if 
>>> convicted.
>>>
>>> Honsik was convicted of violation of the law on the basis of his book 
>>> "Acquittal for Hitler" and sentenced to a year and a half in prison in 
>>> 1992 but fled to Spain, where he gained a reputation as a leading extreme 
>>> right-wing publicist.
>>>
>>> Austrian public prosecutors claim Honsik used his journal "Halt" (Stop), 
>>> books and the internet in Spain to promote and publicise Nazi ideology.
>>>
>>> Honsik was arrested in 2007 near Malaga, Spain on an international 
>>> warrant and extradited to Austria, where he was since been in detention.
>>>
>>> The trial at the Vienna High Court begins on Monday and is expected to 
>>> last for three days.
>>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2008972 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is for Doc Tony
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:11:23 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:d8400dba-acf5-42ae-97ab-092c3d3c1a61@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 17, 6:25 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>>
>>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>> >Nothing shows better the pitiful, unsupportable state of holo-
>>> >propaganda than your reliance on Kurt's somewhat unorthodox
>>>
>>> Poor Istvan Lippai, aka "turkeyboy," reduced to emulating the dumbest
>>> denier on Usenet.
>
>>You could spend your time better to sue the person(s) accusing you of
>>being a tax cheat, car thief and childe molester before you make up
>>names for me, McVay.
>>As long as these charges and the most hideous of all crimes of child
>>molestation stand unchallenged against you, McVay, you are not fit for
>>human society. If your holo-propaganda masters are not able to find
>>someone of better character than you are, we have every right to
>>assume that everything you posted, you post and you continue to post
>>is worthless garbage. Therefore, holo-propaganda is garbage.
>
>>Maybe there is some truth to holo-propaganda. Maybe there is not.
>>However, no thinking person would believe anything that such unsavory
>>character as you and your sidekick posts. Would it be asking too much
>>to see something that has some ring of truth and without the endless
>>repetition of same lies and garbage, please?
>
>McFey is a thoroughly unprincipiled character who will prostitute himself to 
>the highest bidder with no thought given to integrity, honesty or decency. 
>That he needs to continuously attack Kurt speaks volumes for his lack of 
>character.

Kurt was actually there to see the "heroic" allies in action, so he
can see right through mcfee/mcvay to know that they are lying. This,
naturally, the evil duo of mcfee/mcvay find a threat that must be
eliminated.

>
>McFey is arguably the most successful Holocaust(tm) profiteer in the history 
>of the industry.
>
>Thankfully, the only people his disgusting behaviour appeals to are a few 
>million hebes.
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:18 EDT 2009
Article: 2008973 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is for Doc Tony
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On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:35:58 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>You have a brain tumour go and masturbate you will do the world a favour if 
>you can blow out your brain or what ever is left of it.

The chance of him hitting or damaging one of the three functional
brain cells is relatively remote.

>kk
>
>"I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-17FF4A.11311717042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Have been there did you see the before and after you did not.
>>
>>
>> Do you believe that 45000 people died in
>> a single air raid on Nuremberg?
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  wrote in message
>>> news:aussies_suck-E258F9.10344417042009@aries.weretis.net...
>>> > In article
>>> > ,
>>> > "Truthseeker" 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Like it or not what I posted here are the blain facts and the whole 
>>> >> world
>>> >> knows about it.
>>> >
>>> > You don't do facts...you just repeat
>>> > what you "heard".
>>> >
>>> > Do you believe that 45000 people died in
>>> > a single air raid on Nuremberg?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Looking ant you is like little kids growing up, Sometimes
>>> >> the do com home with fakes stories and if anyone believes it the 
>>> >> stories
>>> >> are
>>> >> getting bigger.
>>> >
>>> > If only your parents had punished you
>>> > everytime you knolled.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> If parents do not but on the brake the kids grow up as
>>> >> gangsters at the end.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > People like you always blame their
>>> > parents because people like you refuse
>>> > to take responsibility for your own
>>> > actions.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Learn from it you two faced sucker.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The plain facts are that you never
>>> > answer questions or tell the truth.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Kurt Knoll.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Nothing shows better the pitiful, unsupportable state of holo-
>>> >>  propaganda than your reliance on Kurt's somewhat unorthodox
>>> >> statements, Toni. You and other holo-hustlers follow Kurt much closer
>>> >>  than I do. You collect all his pearls with sick obsession in your KGB
>>> >>  style "nizkor" database and post them without end. If all you got, 
>>> >> and
>>> >>  apparently so, is Kurt's statements to support your holo-garbage than
>>> >>  you are in bigger trouble than anyone may have thought.
>>> >>  How many times did you and mcfey quote Kurt in your feeble attempt to
>>> >>  make something of your holo-fabrications? It is very sad and it shows
>>> >>  why people do not take anything for granted from the likes of you.
>>> >>  Kurt is honest and writes as if he had some personal experiences in
>>> >>  pre and post war Germany. It is no wonder that sometimes he reacts to
>>> >>  the zionazi barrage of insults and ridicule with unconventional
>>> >> rebuffs. The only reason you and other holo-hustlers provoke him to
>>> >> distort and use his statements to prop up your discredited holo-
>>> >>  garbage. I do not think that it is working, Toni because if that is
>>> >>  all you got, you got nothing.
>>> >>  You and some other truly vile and disgusting zionazis in this very
>>> >> thread have been trying to provoke me also without success. Thanks to
>>> >>  Cramer, we know that the chorus of holo-hustlers is not a chorus but
>>> >>  only one demented zionazi using 37 fake names. It says it all about
>>> >>  the fakery of holo-propaganda. That is dishonest, Toni and that 
>>> >> trumps
>>> >>  anything you can conjure up on Kurt.
>>> >>  What I find most ironic and entertaining that you would pick on 
>>> >> anyone
>>> >>  is writing skills, Toni. Someone with your inability to write 
>>> >> anything
>>> >>  but incomprehensible gibberish and garbage should not be so hard on
>>> >>  others. Are you Kurt's twin, Toni?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:1JOdnUr0KebnMHXUnZ2dnUVZ_gBi4p2d@vex.net...
>>> >> > In article ,
>>> >> > Truthseeker  wrote:
>>> >> >>Nothing shows better the pitiful, unsupportable state of holo-
>>> >> >>propaganda than your reliance on Kurt's somewhat unorthodox
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Poor Istvan Lippai, aka "turkeyboy," reduced to emulating the 
>>> >> > dumbest
>>> >> > denier on Usenet.
>>> >> > -- 
>>> >> > "Hey Kenneth there are people dying now that never did dye before."
>>> >> > (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat's Leading Revisionist Scholar and Reigning
>>> >> > Village Idiot)
>>> >> > The Nizkor Project                            http://www.nizkor.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2008976 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Knoll on trial for refusing to answer question
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:31:23 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Proof it you two face parasite I was only 6 years old when world war II 
>Started what will you think about next.

Calm yourself, Kurt. The "I'll always be" character is a fucking moron
who is best ignored.

>"I'll Always Be 17/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-5F3BED.15523217042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Its like  a cat and mouse game. There is no other example in modern 
>>> society
>>> where people being punished because they do not eat you holocaust hook 
>>> line
>>> and sinker.
>>
>> Of course there is. You were part of the
>> nazi party in nazi germany.
>>
>>
>>> You do intrepid what some asks as holocaust denial. a basic
>>> example I did exirienced a short wile ago is when a guy did show me a 
>>> book
>>> about the holocaust. When I did ask some question of what I did see and 
>>> read
>>> in it and said you just want to deny the holocaust.
>>
>>
>> See, you've changed the story again. Now
>> he is a stranger, even though you've
>> said he was from your town. You could go
>> ask him again or you could give us a way
>> to contact him and we could find the
>> name of the book.
>>
>>
>>>Taking this as an
>>> example you do not want anybody to ask questions but believe in what you 
>>> say
>>> blind folded. Show me an example in modern history where a certain 
>>> interest
>>> group has the right dictating other what they have to believe.
>>
>>
>> Very interesting. You claim we don't
>> want anyone asking questions, yet you
>> won't answer any questions. You do not
>> have the right to dictate what we have
>> to believe.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Your  behaviour is casting a shadow of doubt.
>>
>> Your behaviour shows that knolls have
>> always been liars.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>> news:B9GdnSMj5vq0UHXUnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> >
>>> > "Truthseeker"  wrote in message
>>> > news:NuSFl.22487$Db2.14977@edtnps83...
>>> >> Interesting so anyone who does not agree with you is breaking the law.
>>> >
>>> > No, once again, you pretend to not understand what you read.
>>> >
>>> > People in a specific jurisdiciton who promote an ideology that caused 
>>> > the
>>> > death and enslavement of millions,  and attempt to excuse the crimes
>>> > committed by in its name, are breaking the law.
>>> >
>>> > There are lots of people who don't agree with me, or you.   That 
>>> > doesn't
>>> > mean they are breaking the law.
>>> >
>>> > You're only *pretending* to not get this, aren't you?
>>> >
>>> > -pk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>  What else is there for you to screw the whole world.
>>> >> Kurt Knoll.
>>> >>
>>> >> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:74q6r2F14ogrtU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> >>> Holocaust denier Gerd Honsik is to go on trial next week for 
>>> >>> promoting
>>> >>> Nazi ideology.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Honsik, 68, is facing 28 counts of breaking laws prohibiting 
>>> >>> activities
>>> >>> supporting the Nazi regime and could be jailed for up to 20 years if
>>> >>> convicted.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Honsik was convicted of violation of the law on the basis of his book
>>> >>> "Acquittal for Hitler" and sentenced to a year and a half in prison 
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> 1992 but fled to Spain, where he gained a reputation as a leading
>>> >>> extreme right-wing publicist.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Austrian public prosecutors claim Honsik used his journal "Halt" 
>>> >>> (Stop),
>>> >>> books and the internet in Spain to promote and publicise Nazi 
>>> >>> ideology.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Honsik was arrested in 2007 near Malaga, Spain on an international
>>> >>> warrant and extradited to Austria, where he was since been in 
>>> >>> detention.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The trial at the Vienna High Court begins on Monday and is expected 
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> last for three days.
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:19 EDT 2009
Article: 2008986 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jew soldiers not only killers but thieves
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT), william hubbard
 wrote:

>On Apr 18, 11:30 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The old man sat in the light of a kerosene lamp and looked bleakly ahead.
>> His wife sat in the opposite corner, crying loudly "They soiled our sheets,
>> haram, haram, they broke our bed, fired guns in our bed' 'and', the old man
>> said 'they took all our money. The day after we left we found a 100shekel
>> note in the garden, that's all'
>>
>> He was talking about the Israeli occupation of his house to a foreign
>> photographer who had come to film the destruction in North of the Gaza
>> Strip. Sa'ad Al Atar lived in a line of houses along a high ridge
>> overlooking Gaza city in Atatra district. It was the part of Gaza nearest
>> the Israeli border, and it also commanded long views of Gaza city, so it was
>> bombed repeatedly in the first few days, and most of the houses were
>> destroyed. Then the Apaches fired rockets at what was left and machine
>> gunned anything that moved. Mr Al Atar stayed home with his family, even
>> when machine gun fire came through the window and sprayed the wall behind
>> them. The foreign Journalist put his fingers in the big holes in the
>> plaster, but to him they were just dents in the wall; to Mr Al Atar they
>> represented fear and salvation at the same time. But there was an even
>> closer miss in the next dark room, where there were no lights. A row of
>> smaller bullet holes at a lower level.
>>
>> "We were eating our meal on the floor when these came. If we were sitting on
>> a chair they would have gone through our heads. I am lucky that I cannot
>> afford to put chairs in both my rooms" said Mr Al Atar.
>>
>> What happened next? "The Israelis came and pointed their guns at us. they
>> told us to get into the back room, where the shots had been fired, and to
>> stay there, and they went on to the roof. They told us that if we moved,
>> they would shoot us. They went upstairs, they stole my money, soiled the
>> beds, left condoms everywhere. They fired holes in the bed - for what?'
>> While people were dying they were making love with each other in our bed,
>> and then they destroyed it. All our money was in the mattress, everything
>> for the whole family, and they took it all. then after 3 days, they left.
>> Just left"
>>
>> His family of seven children and his wife listened in the gloomy light.
>> "There is no glass in the windows, and we cannot afford even to buy plastic
>> sheets' said Mrs Al Atar. "The UN gave us some blankets, but we have no
>> money to repair anything and no one helps us. No one. And it is cold, even
>> our clothes they cut up and soiled - look, look at these cuts, why, why they
>> do this, why?"
>>
>> They drank their tea in silence, the foreign photographer left, and the
>> light went out.
>
>the ragheads soiled their own beds, if it can be provenn that the
>soldiers took the alleged money, they must pay it back in currency or
>in lead..

You're an ignorant arsehole, hubbard.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2008988 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:34:11 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 18, 8:44 am, Topaz  wrote:
>> "Eichmann who was kidnapped by Israel, held by the Israelis who are
>> known for their use of torture, was kept in fear of his life, tried
>> for crimes that didn't exist at the time he committed them, in a
>> country other than that in which the 'crimes' were committed, which
>> didn't exist at the time when the crimes WERE committed, and was
>> eventually murdered. And we are supposed to just accept that the
>> things he said were the things that HE wanted to say rather than the
>> things his captors wanted him to say?"
>>
>   Yes.
>
>   You are a Nazi.

No, you're just an imbecile.

>
>   As a Nazi, you are, above all else, a craven coward.
>
>  You are afraid to compete with others as equals because you know
>you can not measure up.
>
>   You are afraid of your own inadequacy, so you want to murder your
>betters.
>
>   You are afraid of the truth, so you want to murder those who would
>tell it.
>
>   You are afraid of history, so you want to murder the past, to wipe
>out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of
>National
>Socialism.
>
>   Finally, you are afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.
>Freedom of choice terrifies you... which is why you choose minor
>children as sexual partners. You can not interact with competent
>adults in a consensually sexual
>way.  You need to be able to impose yourself on a helpless victim, be
>it a prepubescent
>boy, or a patient in a mental hospital.
>
>   That is what you are, a Nazi, and there is nothing polite or
>honest about it.
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2008989 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Gun Confiscation In America Is A Bad Idea
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:31:23 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 17, 8:26 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:0fffa70e-f570-4e67-bac1-116e0f97a08f@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 17, 5:49 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>
>> >news:7v2iu492f7sll1623g8pbk2nr0eltge56g@4ax.com...
>>
>> > > On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:16:49 -0400, in
>> > > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > >  wrote:
>> > >> You're full of shit like most allied stooges. You are clearly not
>> > >> German, but then that was obvious with a silly choice of name like
>> > >> "Schadenfreude". You seem to be just another racist nut.
>>
>> > > Typical denier tactic: insult the other person rather than discuss the
>> > > issue.
>>
>> >> What insults? He's right on the money.
>>
>> >   Right on the money is something deniers are not familiar with.
>>
>> Who's a denier? I don't know anyone who flat out denies the Holocaust(tm). I
>> do know many people who question the yid version of events. The version that
>> is protected from scrutiny or challenge by legislation.
>   And what is this yid version of events?
>
>   That millions of Jews and others were murdered in the Nazi death
>camps.
>
>   That Hitler knew of the Holocaust?
>
>   That trains for Auschwitz had priority over trains bringing
>materiel to the frontline troops?

That nonsense I KNOW for sure to be false, which in turn casts doubt
on everything else you say.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:55:20 EDT 2009
Article: 2008990 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:28:05 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>What good would it do listening to you. Was it not the Jews who were very 
>instrumental in drafting the sanction against Germany right after world war 
>I. Why is it why the Germans today are not allowed to read what was printed 
>in the German news papers from 1918 till 1945. German merchant ships who 
>when to south America were constantly harassed first by the British and then 
>by the Americans all the way to south America. The German puplic read all 
>this articles is it any wonder why they did hate the British the Americans 
>and the Jews. Wars do not start out of nothing there are always some reason 
>for it. If it was not for the constant hate propaganda against Germany 
>Hitler would never been elected. Take a good look at American politics today 
>nothing has really changed till today. How many conflicts did America 
>instigate since 1918 or manipulate. Like an young American soldier dolt me 
>in 1945 the next war will be most likely Russia the American war industries 
>can not exist without it. Today the evidence is there you just can not see 
>it.

It all depends on where one chooses to start the story. All kinds of
misrepresentations can be managed by just starting the story at the
right place.

People who accuse Germany of starting WW2 usually start their story on
September 1, 1939, conveniently ignoring what went before to bring
this about. Personally, I do not believe that Germany bears all the
responsibility for WW2, or even most of it. There were numerous
players in this piece, all with their own roles to play.

>
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1804091858080001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>> In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Judea Declares War on Germany!"
>>> - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.
>>>
>>> "Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott
>>> of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations,..!"
>>> - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.
>>
>> Why do you neglect the reason for this "declaration of war"?
>>
>> Source: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm
>>
>> 
>> 
>> Statements by Hitler and Senior Nazis
>> Concerning Jews and Judaism
>>
>>
>> Speech delivered by Hitler in Salzburg, 7 or 8 August 1920. (NSDAP 
>> meeting)
>>
>>    The following quotation is from a shorthand transcript.
>>
>>        "This is the first demand we must raise and do [reversal of the
>> Versailles Treaty provisions]: that our people be set free, that these
>> chains be burst asunder, that Germany be once again captain of her soul
>> and master of her destinies, together with all those who want to join
>> Germany. (Applause)
>>
>>        And the fulfillment of this first demand will then open up the way
>> for all the other reforms.  And here is one thing that perhaps
>> distinguishes us from you [Austrians] as far as our programme is
>> concerned, although it is very much in the spirit of things: our attitude
>> to the Jewish problem.
>>
>>        For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to
>> be solved by small concessions.  For us, it is a problem of whether our
>> nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever
>> really be eradicated.  Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a
>> disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus.
>> Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid
>> the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis.  This Jewish
>> contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end,
>> until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst.
>> (Applause)
>>
>>        Source: D Irving, The War Path: Hitler's Germany 1933-1939.
>> Papermac, 1978, p.xxi
>>
>> Hitler's Conversation with Josef Hell, 1922
>>
>> When Hell asked Hitler what he intended doing if he ever had full freedom
>> of action against the Jews, his response was:
>>
>>        "If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be
>> my first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have
>> gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the
>> Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be
>> hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink.
>> They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they
>> are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until
>> the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be
>> followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!"
>> (quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977,
>> p.116)
>>
>> Hitler, Adolf- "Nation and Race".  Chapter XI of Mein Kampf [My Struggle]
>>
>>    The document referenced by the above link is Chapter 11 of Adolf
>> Hitler's Mein Kampf [My Struggle], which dwells especially on his views on
>> the significance of race in culture and social systems, and particularly
>> on his perception of the role of Aryans and Jews  in culture creation
>> and/or destruction. Mein Kampf appeared in two volumes, published in 1925
>> and 1927. This chapter features in the first, and more significant volume,
>> and was written during 1924 when Hitler was incarcerated in Landsberg
>> prison, Bavaria, following the unsuccessful Beer Hall Putsch (small
>> uprising) of 1923. Mein Kampf sets forth Hitler's views on a very wide
>> range of topics, Hitler being one of those individuals who felt able to
>> expound on virtually any subject. In the context of the Final Solution to
>> the Jewish Question, the views he expressed in this book on Jews are
>> especially important as his ultimate intentions towards them can only be
>> inferred from publicly known statements, no written orders relating to
>> their extermination having been found.
>>
>>    Despite the fact that it has been dubbed "turgid, repetitious,
>> wandering, illogical" [EB, CD-ROM, 1998], it was an extremely important
>> document because of its widespread appeal to certain sections of society
>> in Germany and elsewhere. By 1939 it had been translated into eleven
>> languages and had sold more than five million copies. Today it is still in
>> print and can be found reproduced at various sites on the Internet.
>>
>> Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
>>
>>        "Why does the world shed crocodile¹s tears over the richly merited
>> fate of a small Jewish minority? S I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American
>> people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners of
>> the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would
>> willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a thousand-mark
>> note for travelling expenses, if we could get rid of them." (Quoted in N H
>> Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942,
>> Volume I, pp.727-28
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>> It should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that a country
>> that chooses a man and party with such views to lead it is going to
>> encounter some turbulance.
>>
>> Regards,
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:56:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2485122 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: British MP George Galloway is a traitor
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:48:05 +0100, Emil Tiades
 wrote:

>
>On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:50:36 -0500, Wext <911exposed@noemail.neu>
>wrote:
>
>>British MP George Galloway 
>
>
>
>is a traitor

That makes no sense. Just because he isn't your standard British
war-monger doesn't mean that he is a traitor.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:56:43 EDT 2009
Article: 2485414 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: THE GENE OF RACISM HAS NOT BEEN SURPASSED IN GERMANY YET
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:58:35 -0700 (PDT), niedner95@gmail.com wrote:

>On Apr 14, 9:52 am, haberça??  wrote:
>> THE GENE OF RACISM HAS NOT BEEN SURPASSED IN GERMANY YETwww.habercagi.com
>>
>> www.habercagi.com
>>
>> The extremist rightists, usually aiming at immigrants have this time
>> attacked Passau Chief of Police Alois Mannichl who initiated struggle
>> against racism. Can this attack be a turning point in terms of
>> demonstrating the level reached by the extremist right in Germany?
>> Time will show that.
>>
>> Before the mentioned attack, the Turkish foundations in Germany have
>> taken many initiatives in order for both the authorities and the
>> society to be sensitive to the rise of the extremist right. For
>> instance, the spokesman of the Turkish Community of Nürnberg
>> Metropolis Region (TGMN) Prof. Sefik Alp Bahadir attracted attention
>> to 94 incidents aimed at domestic peace within the society in the
>> past
>> two years in the context of the physical and material security of the
>> Turks in Germany. S.A. Bahadir called even the Organization for
>> Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), the Council of Europe and
>> the institutions of Human Rights First to demand from the German
>> government to take political and legal precautions on xenophobia and
>> segregation.
>>
>> Beyond the warnings, how the researches and detections that put
>> forward the rates of racism and xenophobia throughout Germany
>> including the state of Bavaria are being assessed by the German
>> authorities is important. When looked at the explanations in Federal
>> and State level, discrepancies can be clearly seen. Parliamentary
>> Undersecretary at the Federal Interior Ministry Peter Altmaier (CDU-
>> Christian Democratic Union) has admitted that the number of the
>> violent acts aiming at foreigners is high and that no progress has
>> been made about it, whereas Interior Minister of the state of Bavaria
>> has stated that the research concerning xenophobia, carried out by
>> the
>> Friedrich Ebert Foundation, does not reflect the realities.
>>
>> The fact that the racist approach "holding the foreigners responsible
>> for any problem" is having more and more supporters and begins to
>> draw
>> the conservatives towards its line is another point that should not
>> be
>> disregarded. The results of the survey conducted by the Bielefeld
>> University points out that there is an increase between 2002-2006 in
>> the rate of people who agree with the statements that "So many
>> foreigners live in Germany", "when there is a crisis in finding an
>> employment, the foreigners should be sent to their homelands", "the
>> Muslims should be forbidden to migrate to Germany" and "I feel myself
>> like a foreigner in my own country as so many foreigners live in the
>> country". Certainly the global economic crisis that we are going
>> through will also have no contribution to the struggle against
>> xenophobia. Therefore, although the concept of "parallel community"
>> has been so far used to express an outcome of the immigrants' not
>> being able to adapt to the German society, the statements of the
>> Interior Minister of Germany Wolfgang Schaeuble that the extreme
>> rightists rather than the immigrants constitute a "parallel
>> community"
>> in the country and more attention should be paid to the mentioned
>> community, are promising in terms of the struggle against the
>> rightist
>> extremism.
>>
>> In a speech she made during the ceremony that was hold owing to the
>> 30th. anniversary of the German Immigration, Refugee and Integration
>> Office, German Chancellor Angela Merkel stated that the future of her
>> country depends on whether the Germans will learn to live together
>> with the immigrants or not. This summarizes everything.
>
>Just look at the mess in the USA and a rational Germany would
>gradually
>"out-filter" immigrants excepting those with exceptional skills.
>
>en

Strictly speaking, there are no "immigrants" in Germany. There are
resident aliens, but not immigrants. Germany is not now, nor has it
ever been, an immigration country. It simply isn't and cannot be a
replica of Canada or the USA.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:50 EDT 2009
Article: 2009332 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:16:58 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:kddku410c6ad9hgpki9pda2uhd2ie4o6lg@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:26:58 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Ariadne"  wrote in message
>>>news:c1c35eae-85b5-4ec5-9dd5-b4f3a042faaf@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On 17 Apr, 01:56, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>>> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates that
>>>>> some
>>>>> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied 
>>>>> Territories
>>>>
>>>> There are no "Occupied Territories" except
>>>> those taken over by the Arab squatters.
>>>
>>>Which is, of course, another typical yid lie.
>>
>> It is an absolute reversal of reality. It isn't the indigenous Arabs
>> who are the squatters. This is colonialism of the worst kind
>> orchestrated by European Jews. Many of the Palestinian Jews were not
>> thrilled by the concept of "neo-Israel" created by force by the
>> Zionists.
>
>It's interesting to note that the Palestinian Jews were treated just has 
>harshly by the European zionista as were the Arab Palestinians.
>
>The zionista did not want any baggage left in Ersatz israel.

I read just recently that it is quite probably that the Palestinian
"Arabs" are the ACTUAL descendants of Israel, and their only crime has
been to convert to Islam, much like the Bosnians who converted from
Christianity to Islam a few centuries back.

In Israel, it is a case of the counterfeit Jews persecuting the real
Jews.

>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:51 EDT 2009
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes, Internationally, declare they want to destroy Germany
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:06:13 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>Any Belgian can tell you about the atrocities committed by
>Germany in their German-violated country during WW I.

All of those have been proven to be false, Eugene. Where have you been
hiding this last century?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2009334 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ping  Salzman
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:22:28 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article 
><951d7588-835c-43fd-9e88-a47106e279fb@z19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>
>> Welly welly welly.  I found your posting which you denied having
>> made.  You posted Aug. 20, 2008.
>> Here ya go girl:
>> 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/browse_thread/thread/824c438d56
>> acb392/
>> 
>> Yours is the second posting, responding to mine.
>
>Thank you for locating it. I did not, in fact DENY it, I said I doubted 
>it and asked for the reference.
>
>You supplied it and I've thanked you.
>
>Pointing out that I referred to GERMANY, not to individual victims of 
>suffering, would be meaningless to you, of course.

That is foolish sophistry, Sara. The German people ARE Germany, not
the terrain on which they live. You are essentially a Germonophobic
racist.

>
>Sara


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:51 EDT 2009
Article: 2009336 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:40:43 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1904090946390001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Truthseeker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> You must be believing in the holly ghost. a library is a puplic 
>>> institution
>>> and will therefore not show items that are against the law in Germany.
>>
>> Some material published during the Nazi period is not allowed to be
>> republished in Germany, but it is accessible in libraries. In Germany
>> pubicly denying or trivializing the Holocaust is against the law, but
>> reading material published during the Holocaust is not.
>>
>>> Do
>>> not forget any critic about the holocaust could be considered anti emetic
>>> and are not allowed to be on display in Germany.
>>
>> You can't "criticize" a historical event. You can investigate it
>> critically,
>
>Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European nations and 
>wind up in the slammer.
>
>> but you cannot "criticize" it, something quite different. In
>> Germany there are many views on the Holocaust, and legitimate questions
>> about it based on bona fide research are raised and discussed all the
>> time.
>
>Only discussed publicly if the debate fits the yid version of events.

Like in the old days in Germany, you can say anything you want as long
as it doesn't contradict the opinions of the powers that are in
charge.

>
>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2009337 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:36:01 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1904090946390001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>> > You can't "criticize" a historical event. You can investigate it
>> > critically,
>> 
>> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European nations and 
>> wind up in the slammer.
>
>An outright and easily debunked lie.
>
>Only a minority of European countries, almost all of them countries deeply
>involved in either the implementation of the Holocaust(e.g. German,
>Austria, Romania, Switzerland [where a lot of Holocaust loot wound up]) or
>severely victimized by the Holocaust (e.g. the above coutries plus Poland,
>France, the Czech Republic, Belgium, Lithuania, Luxembourg), have laws on
>the books criminalizing public Holocaust denial.

The list you have given represents the vast bulk of the population of
Europe. It isn't the NUMBER of countries that is important. The
individual German states have larger populations than many of the
Scandinavian countries, for example.

>
>Source:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial_laws#Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
>
>
>Laws against Holocaust denial
>Main article: Laws against Holocaust denial
>
>Holocaust denial is explicitly or implicitly illegal in 13 countries:
>Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Liechtenstein,
>Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, and Switzerland.
>Slovakia made Holocaust denial a crime in late 2001 but repealed the
>legislation in May 2005. Spain decriminalized Holocaust denial in October
>2007.[99] Italy rejected a draft Holocaust denial law proposing a prison
>sentence of up to four years in 2007, the Netherlands rejected a draft law
>proposing a maximum sentence of one year in 2006 and before this the
>United Kingdom twice rejected a Holocaust denial law. Denmark and Sweden
>also have rejected Holocaust denial legislation.[100]
>[edit] 
>
>
>
>
>Thus:
>
>1. Twelve (12) European countries, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic,
>France, Germany, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal,
>Romania, and Switzerland, have laws criminalizing Holocaust denial.
>
>2. Thirty-one (32) European countries, Albania, Andorra, Belarus,
>Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland,
>Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Macedonia, Malta, Monaco,
>Montenegro, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovenia,
>Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, the United Kingdom, and Vatican
>City, do NOT have such laws.
>
>3. 12/(12+32) = 27% 
>
>4. Holocaust denial being criminalized in 27% of European countries is far
>less than it being criminalized "in most Euroepean countries", since
>"most" is > 50%, but 27% << 50% 
>
>5. Cramer's claim that an attempt to investigate the Holocaust critically
>"in most European nations and wind up in the slammer" is refuted by the
>empirical fact that imprisonment might be the result of public Holocaust
>denial in 27% of European countries, but not in the 73% of European
>countries, an overwhekming majority, that do not criminalize public
>Holocaust denial.
>
>QED.
>
>Eat crow, Cramer.
>
>Regards,
>Wugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2009338 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: For eugen holman
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:02:24 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>> news:holman-1904090946390001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> 
>>> > You can't "criticize" a historical event. You can investigate it
>>> > critically,
>>>
>>> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European nations 
>>> and
>>> wind up in the slammer.
>>
>> An outright and easily debunked lie.
>
>Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>
>If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on a mission 
>to charge those speaking.

The government of the BRD is simply following the directions of their
allied masters.

>
>You're telling porkies again.
>>
>> Only a minority of European countries, almost all of them countries deeply
>> involved in either the implementation of the Holocaust(e.g. German,
>> Austria, Romania, Switzerland [where a lot of Holocaust loot wound up]) or
>> severely victimized by the Holocaust (e.g. the above coutries plus Poland,
>> France, the Czech Republic, Belgium, Lithuania, Luxembourg), have laws on
>> the books criminalizing public Holocaust denial.
>
>
>>
>> Source:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial_laws#Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
>>
>> 
>> Laws against Holocaust denial
>> Main article: Laws against Holocaust denial
>>
>> Holocaust denial is explicitly or implicitly illegal in 13 countries:
>> Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Liechtenstein,
>> Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania, and Switzerland.
>> Slovakia made Holocaust denial a crime in late 2001 but repealed the
>> legislation in May 2005. Spain decriminalized Holocaust denial in October
>> 2007.[99] Italy rejected a draft Holocaust denial law proposing a prison
>> sentence of up to four years in 2007, the Netherlands rejected a draft law
>> proposing a maximum sentence of one year in 2006 and before this the
>> United Kingdom twice rejected a Holocaust denial law. Denmark and Sweden
>> also have rejected Holocaust denial legislation.[100]
>> [edit]
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> Thus:
>>
>> 1. Twelve (12) European countries, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic,
>> France, Germany, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal,
>> Romania, and Switzerland, have laws criminalizing Holocaust denial.
>>
>> 2. Thirty-one (32) European countries, Albania, Andorra, Belarus,
>> Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland,
>> Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Macedonia, Malta, Monaco,
>> Montenegro, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovenia,
>> Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, the United Kingdom, and Vatican
>> City, do NOT have such laws.
>>
>> 3. 12/(12+32) = 27%
>>
>> 4. Holocaust denial being criminalized in 27% of European countries is far
>> less than it being criminalized "in most Euroepean countries", since
>> "most" is > 50%, but 27% << 50%
>>
>> 5. Cramer's claim that an attempt to investigate the Holocaust critically
>> "in most European nations and wind up in the slammer" is refuted by the
>> empirical fact that imprisonment might be the result of public Holocaust
>> denial in 27% of European countries, but not in the 73% of European
>> countries, an overwhekming majority, that do not criminalize public
>> Holocaust denial.
>>
>> QED.
>>
>> Eat crow, Cramer.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Wugene Holman
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:52 EDT 2009
Article: 2009340 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:42:49 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>
>> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European nations 
>> >> and
>> >> wind up in the slammer.
>> >
>> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>> 
>> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>
>He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, even if
>Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.

Sylvia Stolz simply stated that the BRD is a modality of allied
control and hence illegitimate.

> 
>> If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on a mission 
>> to charge those speaking.
>> 
>> You're telling porkies again.
>
>No, you are.
>
>Germany is *one* European country.

It is also the most populous European country outside of Russia, and
the principal European power. It's influence sets the tone for the EU.




 It can enforce its Holocaust denial
>laws against its own citizens anywhere, and it has tried, with little
>success, to have them enforced throughout the EU against anyone of
>whatever citizenship who violates them. That is not what you have been
>claiming.
>
>By the way, I neglected to include Ireland in my list. The revised
>statistics are 12 vs. 33, that is to say 12 out of 45, 27%, of European
>nations have criminalized Holocaust denial. Your specious claim that
>publicly denying the Holocaust "in most European nations" will see you
>winding up in the slammer is even further refuted.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2009342 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:47:27 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1904091242490001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> > In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>> >> news:holman-1904091136010001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> >> >> Nope. Not the Holocaust(tm). Attempt to do so in most European nations
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> wind up in the slammer.
>> >> >
>> >> > An outright and easily debunked lie.
>> >>
>> >> Tell that to Germar Rudolf et al.
>> >
>> > He, Zündel, and Stolz are German citizens subject to German law, even if
>> > Sylvia Stolz claims otherwise.
>> 
>> They aren't the only ones the Germans have tried to nail for words against 
>> the yids' Holocaust(tm) outside the country.
>
>It's not "the yids' Holocaust(tm)". The Holocaust is one of the most
>infamous episodes of German history. The German government, as the legal
>successor to Hitler's Reich, regards itself as having the moral
>responsibility to honor the memory of the millions of Holocaust victims
>and to squelch efforts to deny or trivialize this period of German
>history.

If the story is historically true, then it does not require the
draconian support of the power of the German state to keep it upright.
Clearly the German authorities believe that the story needs all the
support it can get.

> Much can be said about the means and methods used, but the
>majority of Germans as well as many people in neighboring countries once
>victimized by the Holocaust, support the efforts that Germany takes
>against Holocaust deniers and trivializers.

You're dreaming in technicolor. Germans don't support this BRD
witch-hunt, but they are afraid to complain and for much the same
reasons as they were afraid to complain during the NS period. It is
just a new bunch operating a reign of terror.

>
>> >> If the words are said publicly anywhere, the Germans seem to be on a 
>> >> mission
>> >> to charge those speaking.
>> >>
>> >> You're telling porkies again.
>> >
>> > No, you are.
>> 
>> No I am not.
>
>Yes you are. You tell so many that you are unable to recognize them.
>
>> > Germany is *one* European country. It can enforce its Holocaust denial
>> > laws against its own citizens anywhere, and it has tried, with little
>> > success, to have them enforced throughout the EU against anyone of
>> > whatever citizenship who violates them. That is not what you have been
>> > claiming.
>> 
>> That they have tried is what matters. That the continue to try is worrying.
>
>If they didn't it would be far more worrying.
>
>> > By the way, I neglected to include Ireland in my list. The revised
>> > statistics are 12 vs. 33, that is to say 12 out of 45, 27%, of European
>> > nations have criminalized Holocaust denial. Your specious claim that
>> > publicly denying the Holocaust "in most European nations" will see you
>> > winding up in the slammer is even further refuted.
>> 
>> You don't find that ludicrous?
>
>No, I don't.
> 
>> Being gaoled for a belief is draconian.
>
>These people are not jailed for a belief. They are jailed for disrespect
>for the memory of the dead and robust efforts to whitewash or trivialize
>the most shameful period of German history.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:53 EDT 2009
Article: 2009343 of alt.revisionism
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:59:09 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Truthseeker"
> wrote:
>
>> Eugene do not forget any critic about the holocaust is for you denial. 
>
>You can't "critic" a historical event. You can investigate its essence and
>its details critically, but you cannot "critic" it, at least not in
>English.
>
>Let us consider David Irving. He has never denied that the Nazi state
>killed millions of European Jews. At one time in his career he argued that
>the killing was not done in gas chambers, that it took place as a
>consequence of the activities of rogue German operatives unbeknownst to
>Hitler, and that the word "Holocaust" is inappropriate as a cover term for
>these activities, but he is not so foolish that he has every denied the
>factuality of the killings. He is called a Holocaust denier not for asking
>critical questions about the Holocaust, but rather for sensationalizing
>and thus trivializing it with his manipulations of dates, attempts to
>exhonerate Hitler, and semantic shenanigans.

No Eugene, his "crime" was to not support the "orthodox"
historiography of the period. He was a threat and he needed to be
silenced. The holocaust™ is far too valuable a commercial property to
allow to be threatened by a few academics interested in historical
accuracy.

>
>> You 
>> have the whole world by the balls all you have to do is squeeze.
>
>I have no interest in the world's nether parts. And that includes Australia.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:54 EDT 2009
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:44:34 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1904090946390001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Truthseeker"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> You must be believing in the holly ghost. a library is a puplic 
>>> institution
>>> and will therefore not show items that are against the law in Germany.
>>
>> Some material published during the Nazi period is not allowed to be
>> republished in Germany, but it is accessible in libraries. In Germany
>> pubicly denying or trivializing the Holocaust is against the law, but
>> reading material published during the Holocaust is not.
>
>It will be if one makes it puplic.

There is an old German song "Die Gedanken sind frei" but not
apparently speaking or writing.

>kk
>
>>
>>> Do
>>> not forget any critic about the holocaust could be considered anti emetic
>>> and are not allowed to be on display in Germany.
>>
>> You can't "criticize" a historical event. You can investigate it
>> critically, but you cannot "criticize" it, something quite different. In
>> Germany there are many views on the Holocaust, and legitimate questions
>> about it based on bona fide research are raised and discussed all the
>> time.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2009345 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For eugen holman
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:23:16 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Truthseeker"  wrote in message 
>news:C8EGl.23002$Db2.20996@edtnps83...
>>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1904090946390001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> In article , "Truthseeker"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> You must be believing in the holly ghost. a library is a puplic 
>>>> institution
>>>> and will therefore not show items that are against the law in Germany.
>>>
>>> Some material published during the Nazi period is not allowed to be
>>> republished in Germany, but it is accessible in libraries. In Germany
>>> pubicly denying or trivializing the Holocaust is against the law, but
>>> reading material published during the Holocaust is not.
>>
>> It will be if one makes it puplic.
>
>Uh, Kurt, psst! -  if it's in the library,  it's *already* public.    Anyone 
>with access to the library can read it.
>
>Apparently you missed the reference to "republished".      Or perhaps you 
>pretend that you don't know what that means.
>
>The material is already out there, and can be read in its entirety without 
>restriction.

However, if your interpretation of the read material is at variance
with the opinions of the authorities of the BRD, you will be
imprisoned.

>
>As you've made clear again in this thread, what keeps you from reading this 
>material is not any legal restriction, it's your blatant refusal to go to 
>where it is.
>
>-pk
>
>
>> kk
>>
>>>
>>>> Do
>>>> not forget any critic about the holocaust could be considered anti 
>>>> emetic
>>>> and are not allowed to be on display in Germany.
>>>
>>> You can't "criticize" a historical event. You can investigate it
>>> critically, but you cannot "criticize" it, something quite different. In
>>> Germany there are many views on the Holocaust, and legitimate questions
>>> about it based on bona fide research are raised and discussed all the
>>> time.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eugene Holman
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:54 EDT 2009
Article: 2009346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another young Hungarian Jew who wasn't gassed at Birkenau on June 1944. Mengele’s delivery girl gets closure.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:06:51 -0700 (PDT), rogercarpenter97@yahoo.com
wrote:

>On Apr 19, 1:23 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "ZuLu"  wrote in message
>(...)
>> It is so easy to create a new Holocaust(tm) survival story. All the raw
>> material one needs is contained on the nizkor site. A few weeks research, an
>> active imagination, a modicum of writing skills and you've got yourself
>> another bestseller.
>>
>Cramer, it appears that we have yet another zionazi forgery. This is
>not posted by Zulu but someone forging Zulu’s name. Based on the
>numerous verifiable forgeries, lies, distortions and delusions
>zionazis post to these lists, we can safely assume that everything
>they post is garbage.

That is the conclusion I have drawn after seeing the mcfee/mcvay mob
in action this last year or two.

> The story must also an invention but it will not
>stop the holo-hustlers to make money from it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2009347 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another young Hungarian Jew who wasn't gassed at Birkenau on June 1944. Mengele’s delivery girl gets closure.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:10:17 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:8f8c2c9e-9d0f-462a-bc42-cc712dfa8cef@z5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 19, 1:23 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "ZuLu"  wrote in message
>(...)
>>> It is so easy to create a new Holocaust(tm) survival story. All the raw
>>> material one needs is contained on the nizkor site. A few weeks research, 
>>> an
>>> active imagination, a modicum of writing skills and you've got yourself
>>> another bestseller.
>>>
>
>>Cramer, it appears that we have yet another zionazi forgery. This is
>>not posted by Zulu but someone forging Zulu’s name. Based on the
>>numerous verifiable forgeries, lies, distortions and delusions
>>zionazis post to these lists, we can safely assume that everything
>>they post is garbage. The story must also an invention but it will not
>>stop the holo-hustlers to make money from it.
>
>It is obvious our posts are having the required effect. Why else would they 
>take the effort to forge us?

They find you a threat and will endeavour to find some weak point that
can be exploited, be that extortion, threats to family, or poison pen
letters to employers.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2009348 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Frank on the extermination program
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <7stou450pko027ejjvpijjncbc3ialqb38@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:55:30 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>Well Kenneth how many prison guards were in Auschwitz and how many did 
>testify. What was their names.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:06-dnVl2SqWdZ3bUnZ2dnUVZ_gBi4p2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>Well what can I say when a show is controlled by the Jews. Take Auschwitz 
>>>as
>>>an example where we hear about the Auschwitz commander. And the ex 
>>>Auschwitz
>>>prison guard are under a gag order. How can anyone find out all the truth
>>>when there are restrictions in place preventing others from asking 
>>>question.
>>>Honesty is something you kind of people have never known.
>>
>> How does Frau Pikelhaube explain the testimony of these "guards under gag
>> orders" in courts of law, then?
>>
>> How, in fact, does Frau Pikelhaube explain his documented history of
>> knolling?
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that there are Holocaust victims' shoes
>> with soles made of plastic, as you claimed on April 3, 2009. You
>> were lying.

You have failed even to show that they were the shoes of "victims".
Anybody can assemble a pile of shoes and claim anything they want for
them.

>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown typewriter
>> in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state department about in 
>> 1940."
>> (Message-ID: m7_Ah.1010750$R63.692769@pd7urf1no, by Kurt Knoll, Kitimat,
>> B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar) 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:55 EDT 2009
Article: 2009349 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler's plan to kill Jews outside of Europe
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:03:55 -0700 (PDT), Linda5
 wrote:

>On Apr 18, 5:54 pm, RJ11  wrote:
>>    Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti,
>> Haj Amin al-Husseini,  on 28 November 1941.
>>
>>    
>>
>>    The Fuehrer then made the following declaration,  requesting
>> the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:
>>
>>    1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last
>> traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been
>> obliterated.
>>
>>    2) In the course of this fight,  the German army would -- at
>> a time that could not yet be specified,  but in any case in
>> the clearly foreseeable future -- gain the southern exit of
>> Caucasus.
>>
>>    3) As soon as this breakthrough was made,  the Fuehrer would
>> offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour
>> of liberation had struck.  Thereafter,  Germany's only
>> remaining objective in the region would be limited to the
>> annihilation of the Jews living under British protection
>> in Arab lands.
>>
>>    
>>
>>    Source:  notes taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt,  translator in the
>> Foreign Minister's Secretariat.  Quoted in "Hitler and the Final
>> Solution",  Gerald Fleming,  pages 101-104.
>>
>> RJ.
>
>Interesting reading! I had no idea that Hitler was so consumed with
>vitriol.....

Considering the RJ11 is the source, one should take this diatribe with
a very large grain of salt.

The conquer-the-world crap is just simple-minded American propaganda.
They have accused ALL of their opponents over the years of the same
goal, regardless of how preposterous or impossible the project might
be.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2009350 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Statistics about Hungarian jews sent to Auschwitz (Microfilmed sources from Russian Central Archives)
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:40:26 +0200, ZuLu  wrote:

>
>Excerpt of
>
>Official German Record of all Prisoners in Auschwitz Concentration Camp from May of 
>1940 through December of 1944
>
>Prisoner records of Auschwitz camp from May, 1940 through December 1944 from the 
>Glücks complete Concentration Camp microfilm records now located in the Russian 
>Central Archives[1]
>
>(Note: The attached statistical tables, concerning prisoners in Auschwitz camp from 
>its inception to its closing, are taken directly from Soviet archival material, now 
>available on microfilm from the former Soviet Central Archives. Also, a good deal of 
>corroborative material from the German Archives concerning the German State Railways 
>has been located in the German State Archives (Bundesarchiv) and utilized. The 
>railroad was responsible for the transportation of inmates to and from concentration 
>camps in the figures from the Russian files is accurately reflected in the Reichsbahn 
>documents.)
>
>.../
>
>Total of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May, 1944-October, 1944
>
>Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945: Frames 001-329.
>
>Total number of Hungarian Jews sent to Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:  23,117
>
>Note: Number of Hungarian Jews claimed sent to Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:
>Lucy Dawidowicz. The War Against the Jews, New York, 1975.: 450,000
>Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, New York, 1985. 180,000

Even the holocaustians cannot agree on numbers. The spread between 450
thousand and 180 thousand is so large as to make the figures
meaningless.

>
>Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944
>
>Total number of Hungarian Jews entering Auschwitz, May-October, 1944:  23,117
>
>Total number of Hungarian Jews transferred from Auschwitz, May-October, 1944: 21,527
>
>Total number of Hungarian Jews remaining in Auschwitz after October, 1944: 1,590
>
>Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945: Frames 001-329
>
>Summation: From July, 1941 through October, 1944
>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners in the Auschwitz camp system: 173,000

So the Poles claim that 1.1 million of these 173,000 Jews died at the
camp. That is Polish mathematics if there ever was some.

>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners who died of typhus: 58,240
>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners who died of natural causes: 2,064
>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners transferred to other camps: 100,743
>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners executed: 117
>
>Total number of Jewish prisoners remaining in camp after German evacuation on January 
>15, 1945:  11,839
>
>Sources: CSA No. 187603: Roll 281-1940: Frames 107-869-Roll 282-1940-41: Frames 
>001-875-Roll 283-1941-42:Frames 001-872-Roll 284-1942-43: Frames 003-862-Roll 
>285-1943-44: Frames 019-852- Roll 286-1945: Frames 001-329.
>
>When the SS evacuated the Auschwitz work camp complex in the middle of January 1945, 
>they left a large number of prisoners, mostly Jewish, behind. Many of these were too 
>old or too sick to travel and they were left in their barracks, guarded by a Polish 
>militia that had been raised earlier by Hans Frank, the head of the Government 
>General (as occupied Poland was termed by the Germans.) With the approach of the 
>Soviet army in early 1945, these Polish guards indiscriminately attacked the 
>barracks, with the prisoners inside, using hand grenades and machine guns.
>
>The violent animosity of the Catholic Poles to their huge Jewish community is 
>certainly well known. When the Russians invaded Poland in 1920, one of the greatest 
>fears of the Polish leadership and the government was that the 500,000 Jewish 
>residents of Warsaw’s Nalevski district would rise up against them in support of the 
>advancing Bolshevik armies. Many Polish Jews fled after the failure of the Russian 
>Bolshevik attack and a number of those left behind were promptly massacred by Poles 
>when the central government collapsed after the German invasion of 1939.
>
>Although exact figures of the dead among the remaining Auschwitz inmates in 1945 are 
>not available, several existing Soviet military reports put the death toll between 
>7,000 and 10,000. Former members of the Polish militia have subsequently claimed that 
>many of the dead were shot down by Russian troops as they attempted to exit the 
>liberated camp.
>
>The Russians did not like Jews either, remembering their savagery against them during 
>the salad days of Josef Stalin.
>
>The truth of this matter will never be known but at least this is an atrocity that 
>cannot be blamed on the Germans who were hundreds of miles away at the time.
>
>How many of the 1,590 Hungarian Jewish deportees remaining in Auschwitz died in this 
>Slavic holocaust is not known.
>
>Note: The complete list is too long to post here. Readers wishing a full copy of this 
>may obtain it, gratis, by writing to Brian Harring  brianharring //yahoo.com and 
>requesting the Auschwitz list. Ed.
>
>http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a2617.htm

I'm not surprised that the Reichsbahn records would agree with the
Soviet archives, but not with the figures of the self-serving
holocaust™ industry.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:56 EDT 2009
Article: 2009351 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: STATEMENT BY ANNE BAYEFSKY Regarding The DURBAN REVIEW CONFERENCE
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:54:26 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:06-dnV92SqUUZHbUnZ2dnUVZ_gBi4p2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The besotted Intellectual Leader of Holocaust Revisionism,
>> Kurt Knoll, reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing
>> Stock of UseNet, fluffed his Chicken Yellow Hitler Jugend
>> Tutu with the "I am knolling" Cross and  wrote:
>>
>>>anti Semitism is stemming from your own behaviour. As long as you 
>>>victimize
>>>others and force them to believe your version of historical event you will
>>>have enemies. World war 2 should be an open book for anyone to read it is
>>>the holocaust industries who I doing the dictating here and no one else.
>>>Someday mankind is hoping for you will be held accountable for your
>>>deceitfully actions.
>>
>> Who have I "victimized," Frau Pikelhaube?
>
>You don't know?
>
>What sort of dickhead are you, mcFey?

He is a despicable person from whom every other word is a lie.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2009352 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: STATEMENT BY ANNE BAYEFSKY Regarding The DURBAN REVIEW CONFERENCE
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:54:02 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:V6ydnYguXN5NTnbUnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@vex.net...
>
>Bugger off, you obsessed freak.
>
Poor kenny certainly does have a psychotic obsession.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2009588 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews demolished 24.145 homes sinces 1967
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:37:50 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Apr 16, 5:56 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICHAD) "estimates that some
>> 24,145 Palestinian homes have been demolished in the Occupied Territories
>> since 1967, based on information gleaned from the Israeli Ministry of
>> Interior, the Jerusalem Municipality, the Civil
>> Administration, OCHA and other UN sources, Palestinian & Israeli human
>> rights groups, Amnesty
>> International, Human Rights Watch, our field work and other sources.
>   How many homes were demolished in Dresden? Or Tokyo?

Those were acts during wartime and they were certainly criminal but
modern Israel is an occupying power of the West Bank and Gaza and what
they are doing is without precedent in its viciousness and
criminality. Occupying powers have responsibilities toward the people
being occupied, and Israel is simply ignoring its responsibilities and
engaging in massive and criminal oppression.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:57 EDT 2009
Article: 2009590 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes, Internationally, declare they want to destroy Germany
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On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:15:37 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:06:13 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >Any Belgian can tell you about the atrocities committed by
>> >Germany in their German-violated country during WW I.
>> 
>> All of those have been proven to be false, Eugene. Where have you been
>> hiding this last century?
>
>Right here. Invading and occupying a neutral country, as Germany did to
>Belgium during WW I, is already an atrocity.

LOL

The Brits used to do that twice a month in the heyday of Empire, and
now the Americans have taken the baton and run with it. Belgium was a
faux-neutral and had Germany not used that terrain to attack France,
then France would surely have used it to attack Germany, as they have
done on previous occasions.

Your latest diatribe, like so much of your other stuff, is just
misleading distortion.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2009591 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes, Internationally, declare they want to destroy Germany
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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:21:26 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>There you go Eugene what was the reason why the Germans did go to Belgium. 
>Could it be they did not want the British to come thru the back doo.

Britain has never worried about the independence of small states, and
there is absolutely no doubt that they would have violated Belgium's
neutrality to attack Germany. Belgium has been the standard invasion
route between Germany and France for over 1000 years, and most of the
time the direction was France to Germany and not the reverse.

>Kurt Knoll.
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2104090015370001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article ,
>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:06:13 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Any Belgian can tell you about the atrocities committed by
>>> >Germany in their German-violated country during WW I.
>>>
>>> All of those have been proven to be false, Eugene. Where have you been
>>> hiding this last century?
>>
>> Right here. Invading and occupying a neutral country, as Germany did to
>> Belgium during WW I, is already an atrocity.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2009592 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes, Internationally, declare they want to destroy Germany
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On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 06:09:14 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , I'll
>Always Be 20/04/09  wrote:
>
>> In article 
>> ,
>>  "Truthseeker"  
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> > There you go Eugene what was the reason why the Germans did go to Belgium. 
>> > Could it be they did not want the British to come thru the back doo.
>
>The British made and observed international agreements with regard to
>Belgium, something about being being gentlemen of principle.

That is complete nonsense, Eugene. Britain regularly trampled on small
weak states. That is how they assembled the British Empire, not by
being "gentlemen of principle". The Opium War against China is far
more characteristic of imperial Britain than is championing Belgian
neutrality. The British wanted a pretext for war against Germany, and
that is all that Belgium meant to Britain.

Strictly speaking, Germany had never signed any guarantee of Belgian
neutrality, and hence they had no obligation, gentlemanly or
otherwise, to honour it. One of the constituent states was a signatory
of the Belgian neutrality treaty, but Germany is not bound by that any
more than the USA is bound by a treaty made by Rhode Island.


>
>Source: http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_London_Times_on_Belgian_Neutrality
>
>
>The London Times on Belgian Neutrality
>From World War I Document Archive
>Jump to: navigation, search
>The "Official Statement" on the neutrality of Belgium.
>
>The German press has been attempting to persuade the public that if
>Germany herself had not violated Belgian neutrality, France or Great
>Britain would have done so. It has declared that French and British troops
>had marched into Belgium before the outbreak of war. We have received from
>the Belgian Minister of War an official statement which denies absolutely
>these allegations. It declares, on the one hand, that "before August 3 not
>a single French soldier had set foot on Belgian territory," and again, "it
>is untrue that on August 4 there was a single English soldier in Belgium."
>It adds: --
>
>For long past Great Britain knew that the Belgian army would oppose by
>force a "preventive" disembarkation of British troops in Belgium. The
>Belgian Government did not hesitate at the time of the Agadir crises to
>warn foreign Ambassadors, in terms which could not be misunderstood, of
>its formal intention to compel respect for the neutrality of Belgium by
>every means at its disposal, and against attempts upon it from any and
>every quarter. 
>
>
>
>> No, it's because germany was run by 
>> nazis and they wanted to steal 
>> everything they could
>
>We were talking about the German violation of Belgian neutrality during WW
>I. Germany was run at the time by militarists who were not above breaching
>international agreements to gain unfair advantages. Not Nazis, just
>militarists, often referred to by the British at the time as "Huns".
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:58 EDT 2009
Article: 2009593 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hebes, Internationally, declare they want to destroy Germany
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:36:27 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>So you say. How much did the allies steal from the Germans since the end of 
>world war II. The Schliemann treasure is still in America since 1945. 
>Holocaust survivors can not be investigated because it hurts much. If you 
>can  not gross examine some one you will never be able to find out all the 
>truth.

At least the Royal Ontario Museum was honest enough to return its
collection of medieval armour that had been looted from the Saxon
State Museum in Dresden. It was sent back to Dresden in 1990. By
contrast, the Russians have been thieves for centuries and tend not to
return anything they have stolen, ever.

>Kurt Knoll
>
>"I'll Always Be 20/04/09"  wrote in message 
>news:aussies_suck-47C618.19565320042009@aries.weretis.net...
>> In article
>> ,
>> "Truthseeker" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There you go Eugene what was the reason why the Germans did go to 
>>> Belgium.
>>> Could it be they did not want the British to come thru the back doo.
>>
>>
>> No, it's because germany was run by
>> nazis and they wanted to steal
>> everything they could
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>> news:holman-2104090015370001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> > In article ,
>>> > ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:06:13 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> >> Holman) wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Any Belgian can tell you about the atrocities committed by
>>> >> >Germany in their German-violated country during WW I.
>>> >>
>>> >> All of those have been proven to be false, Eugene. Where have you been
>>> >> hiding this last century?
>>> >
>>> > Right here. Invading and occupying a neutral country, as Germany did to
>>> > Belgium during WW I, is already an atrocity.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:59 EDT 2009
Article: 2009594 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:18:29 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2104090015370001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article ,
>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:06:13 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Any Belgian can tell you about the atrocities committed by
>>> >Germany in their German-violated country during WW I.
>>>
>>> All of those have been proven to be false, Eugene. Where have you been
>>> hiding this last century?
>>
>> Right here. Invading and occupying a neutral country, as Germany did to
>> Belgium during WW I, is already an atrocity.
>
>Forgive the change of subject. I've learned it from la salzman.
>
>What do you say of the attacks upon Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Syria etc by 
>Ersatz israel?

Naturally any outrage performed by neo-Israel is acceptable because of
the much-hyped holocaust™.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:08:59 EDT 2009
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On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:15:00 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2104090015370001@ke-hupnet122-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> 
>> What do you say of the attacks upon Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Syria etc by 
>> Ersatz israel?
>
>I think it is counterproductive, although in some cases it has been a
>matter of legitimate self-defense. Israel has shown itself not to be above
>using Nazi-style factor-of-ten avengement.

Be careful, Eugene,mcfee/mcvay will be denouncing you as an
anti-Semite if you don't hold neo-Israel to be totally above
criticism. Thanks for a