The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/von.ebersdorf.johannes/usenet/2009/v.ebersdorf.200903


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:22 EDT 2009
Article: 1995987 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to 
>> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own 
>> >> country.
>> >
>> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>> 
>> I'm not terrified of anything.
>
>You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.

Yawn.

>> I just have better ways to spend my
>> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or rejected
>> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to discuss
>> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so you
>> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources rather
>> than the dreck from nizkor.
>
>Evasion noted.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:22 EDT 2009
Article: 1995988 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4a9lq41do3bcbp91ocma0bt3k3cum6s0pr@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:28:16 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:07:34 +1000, in
>, "B. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:obopl.230315$9i5.64579@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>> > On 2/22/2009 9:45 PM, Patrick Keenan wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:BaadnZjXj98zEDzUnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> >>>> On 2/20/2009 12:59 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> >>>>> news:TvSdnbXWv6QR7wHUnZ2dnUVZ_j-WnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>>>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> >>>>>> news:GPudnc-DKMloiAHUnZ2dnUVZ_gCWnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> >>>>>>> news:BMydnd0q6pq8kgbUnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> >>>>>>>> news:gt5kp4930smol8nuhemehabgrhls46kamu@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:52:17 -0500, in 
>> >>>>>>>>> , "Neil Harrington" 
>> >>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2/15/2009 1:45 PM, in 
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> message news:40lgp41s1rn8ibtbiaiqj36k8vnpfhrp8b@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:00:36 +1000, in 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "B. Cramer" 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:NYLll.266249$NN4.48494@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/14/2009 9:34 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did he elaborate on the "danger" Zundel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> posed?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes.  In the section below that you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ignore it. There is nothing of any
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequence there which would lead me to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think Zundel was a threat to Canadian
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> society.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You ignored it because it does exactly what you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> say it doesn't. It explains why Mr Justice
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blais found that Zündel was a "threat to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada's national security".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Amongst others:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - his support of right-wing extremism
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is "right-wing extremism" a real threat in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Canada? What have "right-wing extremists" done
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> there, for example, that had any connection with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Zundel?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ask the judge, Neil.  He wrote the decision and had
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the evidence.
>> >>>>>>>>>> And you're perfectly willing to accept that that list
>> >>>>>>>>>> of vague, non-specific accusations and insinuations
>> >>>>>>>>>> was enough to throw Zundel in prison -- and solitary
>> >>>>>>>>>> confinement at that -- for about two years.
>> >>>>>>>>> That list, that was not vague and was quite sepcifi9c,
>> >>>>>>>>> had nothing to do with his being in jail for two years.
>> >>>>>>>>> He was in jail because he refused to give up his claim
>> >>>>>>>>> of refugee status, although he had lived in Canada for
>> >>>>>>>>> almost 50 years.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> To an American, that seems extraordinarily harsh to
>> >>>>>>>>>> say the least. What you have there sounds more like
>> >>>>>>>>>> the classic communist system of "criminal justice"
>> >>>>>>>>>> than the way such things are done in North America.
>> >>>>>>>>> Then you don't understand, or refuse to try to
>> >>>>>>>>> understand, the facts.
>> >>>>>>>> One notes that the US treats refugee claimants in
>> >>>>>>>> *exactly the same way*.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The way it's done in Canada *is* the way it's done
>> >>>>>>>> throughout North America.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> This is just an example of Mr. Harrington's ignorance of
>> >>>>>>>> his own country's practices and history.
>> >>>>>>> Please provide just one example of an alien who had lived a
>> >>>>>>>  peaceful, law-abiding life in this country for 40 years,
>> >>>>>>> left it temporarily, and then was thrown into prison
>> >>>>>>> (solitary confinement at that) simply for returning to it.
>> >>>>>> Do you have a cognitive disability?   Is that why you don't 
>> >>>>>> understand what was written, or are you just pretending?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Your example does not describe Zundel's circumstance.
>> >>>>> He didn't live in Canada for 40 years?
>> >>>> No.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> He didn't leave it temporarily?
>> >>>> No.  He said he was leaving forever.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> He wasn't thrown in prison for returning to it?
>> >>>> No.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> See how easy this is?
>> >>> Yes indeed, replying "No" to everything must be one of the easiest
>> >>> things there is.
>> >>
>> >> Especially when that's all it takes to communicate the truth.
>> >>
>> >> You did, after all, phrase your questions in a yes/no format, so why
>> >>  complain when you get what you requested?
>> >
>> > That's easy.  He didn't realize the answers would be "no", so he is
>> > trying to deflect attention away from it.
>> 
>> Silly old fart. That's a keenan tactic.
>
>Funny.  Keenan is wiping the floor with you bunch.

What have you been drinking. Keenan is a clueless jackass whose
ignorance would fill huge libraries.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:23 EDT 2009
Article: 1995989 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This Should Retire Holocaust Revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <57bbd6df-e4da-4c2b-a00e-228efa9d933c@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>   <8RIol.14543$PH1.4706@edtnps82>     <13cdac47-4764-4b27-9e89-f5e2490dfad1@r36g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:49:25 -0800 (PST), CLAUS VON STAUFFENBERG
 wrote:

>On 25 Feb, 10:07, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:20:36 -0800 (PST), Chris Larson
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Feb 23, 8:21 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> >> "I'll Always Be 23-02-09"  wrote in messagenews:Xns9BBBB21A468E4Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>
>> >> > StarDust  wrote in news:57bbd6df-e4da-4c2b-a00e-
>> >> > 228efa9d9...@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> >> On Feb 23, 8:10 am, "Chris C. Larson" 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> Another nail in the coffin has been driven against denier's Holocaust
>> >> >>> arguments. For those of you who missed this last
>> >> > night,http://www.youtube
>> >> >> .com/watch?v=i3cxZtVYvuI
>>
>> >> >>> Shall we turn to "Holocaust Scholar" Mark Weber for a rebuttal????
>>
>> >> >> Did he live with the  wolfs, that's how he survived?
>>
>> >> > No, don't you understand the English language
>>
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> In this ABC News interview, Herman Rosenblatt explains why he lied
>> >> >> about his experiences as a concentration camp inmate during World War
>> >> >> II.
>>
>> >> > But he isn't Herman Rosenblatt...and the nazi's documented his story.
>>
>> >> How is your friend Benjamin Wilkomirsky. Any more new stories let us know we
>> >> all will be very exited.
>> >> Kurt Knoll
>>
>> >I've never heard of Benjamin Wilkomirsky. I doubt no one else has
>> >either.
>>
>> It would seem that you're not as much an expert on that period of
>> history as you like to imagine.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>yur a bozo. It must piss you off that ICQ has block you on your very
>own bored. hahahahahahahaha
>
>doesn't matter if you delete this thread cause it can be read  on FOS
>where people don't delete stuff they don't like,, like your bullshit
>posts. ;-))))
>
>OH and,, have you ever thought that ICQ is even worse tha ever because
>you are on it??? ;-))) You dumber than dogshit bozo.

What are you babbling about "truecristian"?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:23 EDT 2009
Article: 1996064 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:    <4tidnRTMWdQUyz_UnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>   <23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>   
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On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >[...]
>> >
>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to 
>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own 
>> >> >> country.
>> >> >
>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>> >> 
>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>> >
>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>> 
>> Yawn.
>
>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>not supported by fact.

I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
I know what I have said and written is true, and that is ultimately
all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.

If you disagree that the earth orbits the sun for example, it makes no
difference. The earth orbits the sun regardless of your protestations
and rhetoric. It is the same with the various historical topics
discussed here. The people to whom I'm speaking have enough knowledge
to know that what I said was true.

>
>> >> I just have better ways to spend my
>> >> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or rejected
>> >> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to discuss
>> >> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so you
>> >> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources rather
>> >> than the dreck from nizkor.
>> >
>> >Evasion noted.
>
>Evasion noted again.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:23 EDT 2009
Article: 1996065 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:49:22 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:10:42 -0500, in
><4a9lq41do3bcbp91ocma0bt3k3cum6s0pr@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >Funny.  Keenan is wiping the floor with you bunch.
>> 
>> What have you been drinking. Keenan is a clueless jackass whose
>> ignorance would fill huge libraries.
>
>Ah yes, you are also terrified of him.

LOL

Really? I laugh at him, but why should I be afraid?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:24 EDT 2009
Article: 1996066 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:       <4a9lq41do3bcbp91ocma0bt3k3cum6s0pr@4ax.com> <06tlq4hsbv3bhupnj1qsrmbb6ckq3i015g@4ax.com> 
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On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:41:38 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:06tlq4hsbv3bhupnj1qsrmbb6ckq3i015g@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:10:42 -0500, in
>> <4a9lq41do3bcbp91ocma0bt3k3cum6s0pr@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> >Funny.  Keenan is wiping the floor with you bunch.
>>>
>>> What have you been drinking. Keenan is a clueless jackass whose
>>> ignorance would fill huge libraries.
>>
>> Ah yes, you are also terrified of him.
>
>Shut up, gourd. You're making a total fool of yourself.
>
>Keenan is a deceitful, lying turd. All but you seem to acknowledge that.

That is probably an undeserved insult to turds. Turds serve a useful
function, whereas Keenan is totally 100.0% useless.


>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:24 EDT 2009
Article: 1996242 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <4tidnRTMWdQUyz_UnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com>   <23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>     
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On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:44:57 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:27:27 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>> >> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >[...]
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to 
>> >> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>> >> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>> >> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>> >> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own 
>> >> >> >> country.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>> >> >
>> >> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>> >> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>> >> 
>> >> Yawn.
>> >
>> >Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>> >not supported by fact.
>> 
>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
>> I know what I have said and written is true, and that is ultimately
>> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>
>Sorry, you have it wrong.  If you make a claim such as that there are
>German language sources , you are expected to support it with proof of
>some kind.  If you are unable to do so, your claim is worthless.  If
>all you are trying to do here is convince yourself, carry on, but you
>look very stupid.

You make up your "history" on the fly and never provide "proof", since
what you say is mostly false, so "proof" is impossible by definition.

>
>[troll deleted]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:24 EDT 2009
Article: 1996243 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:19:05 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:28:45 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:49:22 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:10:42 -0500, in
>> ><4a9lq41do3bcbp91ocma0bt3k3cum6s0pr@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >[...]
>> >
>> >> >Funny.  Keenan is wiping the floor with you bunch.
>> >> 
>> >> What have you been drinking. Keenan is a clueless jackass whose
>> >> ignorance would fill huge libraries.
>> >
>> >Ah yes, you are also terrified of him.
>> 
>> LOL
>
>Laughing will not change the facts.
> 
>> Really? I laugh at him, but why should I be afraid?
>
>Because he wipes the floor with you.

Not in this century...



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:25 EDT 2009
Article: 1996244 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: german company used auschwitz hair
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:17:43 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>The German Schaeffler auto parts manufacturer used the hair of Auschwitz 
>inmates in order to make fabrics and textile products during the Second 
>World War, according to Polish researchers.

Polish researchers???   LOL


> In an interview with the German 
>Spiegel TV, Dr. Jacek Lachendro, the deputy head of the Auschwitz Museum 
>research department, stated that part (1.95 tons) of the hair on display in 
>Auschwitz was found at the Schaeffler factory in Kietrz at the end of the 
>Second World War.
>
>He also mentioned transcripts of interrogated former factory workers who 
>stated that in 1943, two train wagon loads of hair were delivered to the 
>Kietrz factory, a three-hour ride by car from Auschwitz. Polish authorities 
>later tested the hair and found traces of Zyklon B, the poisonous gas used 
>to murder over a million Jews in the Auschwitz gas chambers.
>
>The Schaeffler textile factory's Kietrz branch, which is in ruins, was 
>originally the site of the Jewish-owned Davistan Company. The Kietrz branch 
>formed the basis of the Schaeffler Group. After the war, Wilhelm and Georg 
>Scaheffler moved the company operations to Bavaria.
>
>Two years ago, historian Prof. Gregor Schollgen was asked by the Schaeffler 
>family to research the company's history during the Nazi era. While 
>confirming that the company used forced laborers in Kietrz, he did not find 
>evidence linking the company to the processing of human hair from Auschwitz


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:25 EDT 2009
Article: 1996276 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A door in Kitimat.  Why Nizkor is a farce.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:30:03 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>Kenneth McVay OBC escribió:
>> In article ,
>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>> There are many way to look at it. First you torture the accused into 
>>> submission to confess what you want to hear. Then you issue a gag order 
>>> where he is not allowed to talk. And then you make sure the other remaining 
>>> camp guards are never allowed to talk about it to anyone else. Is this not 
>>> the way your stem has worked for the past 60 years or more. I personally 
>>> would not trust you if you were to pay me for it. Honesty is something your 
>>> society has never known.
>> 
>> 1. Document your assertion that someone was tortured.
>
>McVay and Nizkor want to appear as a reliable "serious historian" concerning the 
>"holocost" information among interested people.
>
>What one connected with that forum can observe is that McVay sends a lot of similar 
>posts which constitute an appreciable propagandistic job seen by the holkostian side.
>
>However, as most of my inquiries related with specific facts or documents have been 
>remained without any ANSWER or even consideration I can assume that McVay and his 
>collaborators on the Nizkor site are a COMPLETE FRAUD.

The guy is not qualified in any way as either an historian or an
archivist. Nizkor is a simple-minded propaganda site that has
collected all the fables and misconceptions of the period in one
place.

>
>Why?
>
>Because they failed to:
>
>1- give the coke and wood consumption at Auschwitz during its existence or even only 
>the years 1943 and 1944.
>
>2- give the consumption of Zyclon B at Auschwitz during its existence.
>
>3a- to name who were the deniers who have debunked the homicidal "steam chambers"[1] 
>and "electrical floor"[2] which were supported by usual "eyewitness testimonies" and 
>convenient "proofs" by the Russian prosecution at Nuremberg.
>
>3b- to give which arguments were used in order to borrow those hoaxes from the DOGMA.
>
>4- to put on line the drawing that Pressac has hidden on his book, namely the Huta's 
>drawing
>
>22/10/42...109/6...7015/IV Bew. der Decke über dem Keller I/Reinforcement for the 
>ceiling over Leichenkeller 1.
>
>mentioned on that list
>
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0317.shtml
>
>That drawing is interesting because on it we should see how the supposed "vents" were
>planned on the roof of Leichenkeller 1. On it, the reinforcement made of steel bars 
>is supposed to be framed in order to leave "reserves" on the poured concrete as well 
>as some bars must be conveniently bent around the square openings.
>
>It is so much interesting that Pressac doesn't dare to show it.
>
>So. to resume, why doesn't McVay make the job is paid for, especially by giving 
>actual and accurate information concerning the holokost?
>
>[1] Document 3311-PS
>
>The official Polish Government Commissioner Report on the Investigation of German 
>crimes in Poland describes the concentration camp at Treblinka in these terms:
>
>"In March 1942, the Germans began to erect another camp, Treblinka B, in the 
>neighborhood of Treblinka A, intended to become a place of torment for Jews.
>
>"The erection of this camp was closely connected with the German plans aiming at a 
>complete destruction of the Jewish population in Poland which necessitated the 
>creation of a machinery by means of which the Polish Jews could be killed in large 
>numbers. Late in April 1942, the erection of the first three chambers was finished in 
>which these general massacres were to be performed by means of steam. Somewhat later 
>the erection of the real death building was finished, which contains ten death 
>chambers. It was opened for wholesale murders early in autumn 1942 * * *." (3311-PS)
>
>The report of the commission describes graphically the procedure for extermination 
>within the camp:
>
>"The average number of Jews dealt with at the camp in summer 1942 was about two 
>railway transports daily, but there were days of much higher efficiency. From autumn 
>1942 this number was falling.
>
>"After unloading in the siding all victims were assembled in one place where men were 
>separated from women and children. In the first days of the existence of the camp the 
>victims were made to believe that after a short stay in the camp, necessary for 
>bathing and disinfection, they would be sent farther east, for work. Explanations of 
>this sort were given by SS men who assisted at the unloading of the transports and 
>further explanations could be read in notices stuck up on the walls of the barracks. 
>But later, when more transports had to be dealt with, the Germans dropped all 
>pretenses and only tried to accelerate the procedure.
>
>"All victims had to strip off their clothes and shoes, which were collected 
>afterwards, whereupon all victims. women and children first, were driven into the 
>death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move quickly were driven on by rifle 
>butts, by whipping and kicking, often by Sauer himself. Many slipped and fell, the 
>next victims pressed forward and stumbled over them. Small children were simply 
>thrown inside. After being filled up to capacity the chambers were hermetically 
>closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes all was over. The Jewish menial workers 
>had to remove the bodies from the platform and to bury them in mass graves. By and 
>by, as new transports arrived, the cemetery grew, extending in eastern direction.
>
>"From reports received, it may be assumed that several hundred thousands of Jews have 
>been exterminated in Treblinka." (3311-PS)
>
>http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/document/nca_vol1/chap_12.htm
>
>[2] The official Polish Government Commissioner Report on the Investigation of German 
>crimes in Poland (Document 3311-PS )
>
>MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV:
>
>.../
>
>I beg to draw the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that at the end of 1941 and 
>in 1942 the scale of German fascist crimes committed in concentration camps reached 
>vast proportions. In particular, I refer to the report of the Polish Government in 
>confirmation of this statement. On Page 138 of the document book the members of the 
>Tribunal will find the testimony to the effect that in 1942 one of the most 
>terrifying extermination camps, the Treblinka Camp Number 2, was in rapid process of 
>erection. The Germans called this "Treblinka B." Further, I refer to the report of 
>the extraordinary State Commission on Auschwitz. The members of the Tribunal will 
>find the extract which I am going to quote on Page 353 in the document book, Volume 
>II, second column of the text, Paragraph 2. I quote a short excerpt from Page 257:
>
>"In 1941 the first crematorium for burning the corpses of murdered people was built 
>in the Auschwitz Camp. This crematorium had three ovens. Attached to the crematorium 
>was a so-called 'special purpose bath-house.' That was a gas chamber for asphyxiating 
>people."
>
>I draw the attention of the Tribunal to the following sentence:
>
>"In the summer of 1942 the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler inspected Auschwitz Camp and 
>ordered it to be greatly enlarged and technically perfected."
>
>I end my quotation here, and I call the attention of the Tribunal to Page 136 on the 
>reverse side of the document book; this is from a report of the Polish Government, 
>which shows that the Camp Sobibur was founded during the first and second liquidation 
>of the Jewish ghetto. But the extermination on a large scale in this camp really 
>started at the beginning of 1943. In this same report, in the last paragraph on Page 
>136 of the document book, we may read that Camp Belsen was founded in 1940; but it 
>was in 1942 that the special electrical appliances were built in for mass 
>extermination of people. Under the pretext that the people were being led to the
>
>576
>
>19 Feb. 46
>
>bath-house, the doomed were undressed and then driven to the building where the floor 
>was electrified in a special way; there they were killed.
>
>http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/02-19-46.htm
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:26 EDT 2009
Article: 1996419 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:20:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:45:35 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:44:57 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:27:27 -0500, in
>> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>> >> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>> >> >> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >[...]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to 
>> >> >> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>> >> >> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>> >> >> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>> >> >> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own 
>> >> >> >> >> country.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>> >> >> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Yawn.
>> >> >
>> >> >Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>> >> >not supported by fact.
>> >> 
>> >> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
>> >> I know what I have said and written is true, and that is ultimately
>> >> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>> >
>> >Sorry, you have it wrong.  If you make a claim such as that there are
>> >German language sources , you are expected to support it with proof of
>> >some kind.  If you are unable to do so, your claim is worthless.  If
>> >all you are trying to do here is convince yourself, carry on, but you
>> >look very stupid.
>> 
>> You make up your "history" on the fly and never provide "proof", since
>> what you say is mostly false, so "proof" is impossible by definition.
>
>Still running, I see.  Still afraid to post the German language
>sources.  You'd better send for Ben to defend you.

That silly line of yours is wearing pretty thin. I'm not about to go
to any trouble or effort to scan material for the likes of you, only
to have it swept aside anyway. I know how your scam works and I'm not
falling for it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:26 EDT 2009
Article: 1996422 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:44:01 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:6iorq41i4vhskg4tigv5p892rcohahs8ni@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:41:56 +1000, in
>> , "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:hm4pq4t5g71ljc6a859v4o9437nb5lvp75@4ax.com...
>>> > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:43:04 +1000, in
>>> > , "B. Cramer"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:p1tlq45ouvm3sl3vqo7kjkj7aesgjv64jh@4ax.com...
>>> >> > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:17:25 +1000, in
>>> >> > , "B. Cramer"
>>> >> >  wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > [...]
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > That's easy.  He didn't realize the answers would be "no", so 
>>> >> >> >> > he
>>> >> >> >> > is
>>> >> >> >> > trying to deflect attention away from it.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Silly old fart. That's a keenan tactic.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Funny.  Keenan is wiping the floor with you bunch.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> No he is not.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Oh but he is.  He has completely gotten to you, to the point that 
>>> >> > you
>>> >> > follow him around like a little puppy dog and bark and fart at
>>> >> > everything he says.  He obviously scares you completely shitless.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ferfuckssake, gourd. Keenan is 'owt but a gobshite. He twists and
>>> >> distorts,
>>> >> takes subjects away from the original and lies through his goddamned
>>> >> teeth
>>> >> at every twist.
>>> >>
>>> >> He does NOT scare anyone. He sickens quite a few of us.
>>> >
>>> > He sickens you the same way Eugene Holman does.  He takes the time to
>>> > patiently and convincingly rebut your bullshit and you hate him for
>>> > it.
>>>
>>> No he doesn't. Holmanstein does not sicken me normally, whereas the 
>>> keenan
>>> kunt sickens me constantly.
>>
>> Nice try, but unconvincing.  You treat them virtually identically.
>>
>>> They're a bit like peas in a pod. Shit loads of words sprayed by them, 
>>> but
>>> bugger all of substance ever said. Keenan is a far more accomplished liar
>>> than yougenie is.
>>> >
>>> >> >> He is making it easier for us by providing details of the
>>> >> >> methods he uses to lie and distort.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > He make statements and supports them, unlike you pathetic bunch.  I
>>> >> > can see why eh scares you so much.
>>> >>
>>> >> He does NOT support his statements. EVER.
>>> >
>>> > He does constantly.  The champion of "Because I said so" is you.
>>>
>>> No he does not. It's the keenan clown who makes with the "because I say 
>>> so"
>>> constantly.
>>
>> No, he provides support for what he says.  You don't.
>
>Balls he provides support for what he says. It's mostly all "because I say 
>so" with that lying arsehold.

Gourd and Keenan both resort to "proof by assertion". Neither one has
ever presented a rational argument for anything. The specialty is
meaningless labels and name-calling.

>>
>>> Do please get a grip.
>>
>> I have a grip.  You appear to have lost yours.
>
>It's not working, gourd. You're becoming more and more pathetic by the day.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:27 EDT 2009
Article: 1996662 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: german company used auschwitz hair
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On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 16:46:14 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:gckqq45rjutps5n7na9g072dporor1v69k@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:17:43 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The German Schaeffler auto parts manufacturer used the hair of Auschwitz
>>>inmates in order to make fabrics and textile products during the Second
>>>World War, according to Polish researchers.
>>
>> Polish researchers???   LOL
>
>So, are we to take from your comment that you feel that Poles are somehow an 
>inferior people?
>
>Perhaps in the same way that you feel Germans are unable to speak, think or 
>act for themselves?
>
>One might note that the people who first broke the German Enigma encryption 
>systems were Poles.
>
>One might note that Copernicus was Polish.

Was that the fellow who lived in the city of Thorn, and who never
spoke a word of Polish and didn't publish in Polish either, or am I
thinking of a different person the Poles like to claim as Polish?

>
>Anyway, thanks for making clear your views, as if it was necessary.
>
>-pk
>
>
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:27 EDT 2009
Article: 1996891 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:16:57 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:r9kmq4d7st2nghks58nigevosm3cpos30q@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>>>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >[...]
>>>> >
>>>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources 
>>>> >> >> to
>>>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>>>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>>>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>>>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their 
>>>> >> >> own
>>>> >> >> country.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>> >
>>>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>>>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>>>>
>>>> Yawn.
>>>
>>>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>>>not supported by fact.
>>
>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
>> I know what I have said and written is true,
>
>Except that in many cases, it isn't, and is easily shown to not be true.

You have yet to show that anything I have written is untrue, only that
it is at variance with allied propaganda. Allied propaganda is not the
anchor or reference point for truth.

>
>> and that is ultimately
>> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>
>Interestingly, all the protestations of "belief" are coming from you, whose 
>pronouncements have been shown several times now to not be based on facts.
>
>Your position seems to be that people have told you things, and you hold 
>them to be true.   You won't provide sources to allow others to check.
>
>
>> If you disagree that the earth orbits the sun for example, it makes no
>> difference. The earth orbits the sun regardless of your protestations
>> and rhetoric. It is the same with the various historical topics
>> discussed here.
>
>Well, no, it isn't.   You are presenting some assertions as facts, and you 
>are misusing numbers to do this.
>
>If you assert that one number is higher than another, when the reverse is 
>clearly shown to be true, your assertion is not factually correct.
>
>If you assert that the number of legally sanctioned executions in Nazi 
>Germany was low, by excluding the numbers from the courts that issued the 
>largest number of capital sentences, your assertions will likewise not be 
>factually correct.
>
>
>> The people to whom I'm speaking have enough knowledge
>> to know that what I said was true.
>
>And then there are those who checked the sources, and who know that it 
>wasn't.
>
>Here's a hint: You're caught.  What you are presenting as true sometimes 
>isn't, and in a number of cases it's been very easy to show this.
>
>By the way, Mr. McFee's German is rather more than adequate.
>
>So let's have your sources.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>>
>>>> >> I just have better ways to spend my
>>>> >> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or rejected
>>>> >> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to discuss
>>>> >> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so you
>>>> >> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources rather
>>>> >> than the dreck from nizkor.
>>>> >
>>>> >Evasion noted.
>>>
>>>Evasion noted again. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:27 EDT 2009
Article: 1996893 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How many really died at Auschwitz?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:38:03 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/5/2009 1:33 AM, B. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>> news:Y56dnZYzE7vRZzPUnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@vex.net...
>>> In article , Neil
>>> Harrington  wrote:
>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:Armdnb7cA_TcczPUnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>> In article , Al Smith
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> In article 
>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>  The Sun Tribe  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> general62
>>>>>>> Gee, they only killed 1.1 million instead of 4 million.
>>>>>>> Well, in that case let's just forget about it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is an important difference, for many reasons, one of them
>>>>>> being that if we cannot trust the claimed numbers of dead
>>>>>> more than this -- the difference between 4 million and 1
>>>>>> million is pretty large -- then, what can we trust in the
>>>>>> Holocaust dogma?
>>>>> It's a meaningless difference, because the 4 million figure was
>>>>> never accurate,
>>>> Nor is the "1.1 million" figure, of course, though at least it's
>>>> an adjustment in the right direction.
>>>>> nor accepted by Western scholars.
>>>> Funny that the general public never heard a word about the "4
>>>> million figure" being not "accepted by Western scholars" for all
>>>> those years, isn't it?
>>> No, given that the number was only used in the Soviet Bloc, and no
>>> Western scholars either accepted it or included it as a part of the
>>> estimated Jewish death toll.
>> 
>> You goddamned liar, mcFey. The 4m number was taught in Australian
>> schools until quite recently.
>
>Prove it.

He doesn't have to prove anything. The same stuff was in Canadian
school history texts. I personally was taught that exact number in
Canadian schools, and all hell would have broken loose if anybody had
dared to dispute it. It was dogma.

>
>> Almost every documentary on the Holocaust(tm) mentions the 4m.
>
>Cite one.
>
>> You are a rotten liar of the worst kind.
>
>Look who's talking.
>
>>>> Even funnier that the difference between 4 million and 1.1
>>>> million can be subtracted from the famous "6 million" and still
>>>> leave 6 million. Oy vey, another Holocaust miracle.
>>> See above. What's really funny is that Holocaust deniers have been
>>> trying this one on for more than ten years, and have been
>>> thoroughly debunked in return.
>> 
>> Nope. You turds lie about the fact the 4m figure has been taught and
>> jammed down our throats for decades.
>
>Nothing has been jammed down anyone's throat.
>
>> That's a fact, Jack.
>>> That is, of course, why deniers are thought of as morons from the
>>> shallow end of the gene pool.
>> 
>> That would be you mcFey. You, who has sold his soul to evil and
>> darkness, to profit from a goddamned myth.
>> 
>> 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.html
>>> 
>> 
>> Oh, that's cute. Using your own website to back up your own specious
>>  b'ullshit.
>
>What's even cuter is your complete inability to do anything but attack
>the messenger.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:28 EDT 2009
Article: 1996894 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How many really died at Auschwitz?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:22:41 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:8nZrl.16668$UQ6.12658@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 3/4/2009 4:26 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>
>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>>> news:Armdnb7cA_TcczPUnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>> In article , Al Smith 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> In article 
>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>  The Sun Tribe  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> general62
>>>>>> Gee, they only killed 1.1 million instead of 4 million. Well, in that 
>>>>>> case let's just forget about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is an important difference, for many reasons, one of them being that 
>>>>> if we cannot trust the claimed numbers of dead more than this -- the 
>>>>> difference between 4 million and 1 million is pretty large -- then, 
>>>>> what can we trust in the Holocaust dogma?
>>>> It's a meaningless difference, because the 4 million figure was never 
>>>> accurate,
>>>
>>> Nor is the "1.1 million" figure, of course, though at least it's an 
>>> adjustment in the right direction.
>>
>> It's pretty close.  It may be understated a bit.
>
>Proof by assertion doesn't cut it, gourd.

Until gourd comes up with something more convincing, I will take the
camp records released a few years ago by the Russians as
authoritative. Since these records were never intended to fall into
enemy hands, there is no reason for them to be falsified. False
records are essentially worthless and not worth the effort of creating
them.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:28 EDT 2009
Article: 1997169 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:18:34 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:fef2r41vuaocoposc9r7ajto6etr5tm3hd@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:16:57 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:r9kmq4d7st2nghks58nigevosm3cpos30q@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>>>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>>>>>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >[...]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language 
>>>>>> >> >> sources
>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>>>>>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the 
>>>>>> >> >> gross
>>>>>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired 
>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their
>>>>>> >> >> own
>>>>>> >> >> country.
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you claim
>>>>>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>>>>>not supported by fact.
>>>>
>>>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
>>>> I know what I have said and written is true,
>>>
>>>Except that in many cases, it isn't, and is easily shown to not be true.
>>
>> You have yet to show that anything I have written is untrue,
>
>Yes,  I have done this.
>
>>  only that
>> it is at variance with allied propaganda. Allied propaganda is not the
>> anchor or reference point for truth.
>
>I showed, using British statistics that are in no way British propaganda, 
>that what you posted about British bomb vs. traffic deaths was untrue.

You were playing word games to deflect attention away from the fact
that British bombing fatalities were an order of magnitude lower than
those in Germany, suggesting that allied efforts were directed against
people and not against military facilities as they like to claim.

The British bombing deaths were of the same order of magnitude as the
traffic total for the same period.

>
>And it's clear that you decided to pretend that a lot fewer people were 
>executed under color of law in Nazi Germany by deciding to ignore the 
>People's Courts and their practice of judicial executions.

As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that was
the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin and was essentially the
supreme court under a different name.

>
>So yes, I have certainly shown that you have written things that were 
>untrue.
>
>Further, you now claim that I haven't done so, and I have shown that that 
>claim is also untrue.
>
>
>Now, about those sources you are so reluctant to bring forth?
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>> and that is ultimately
>>>> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>>>
>>>Interestingly, all the protestations of "belief" are coming from you, 
>>>whose
>>>pronouncements have been shown several times now to not be based on facts.
>>>
>>>Your position seems to be that people have told you things, and you hold
>>>them to be true.   You won't provide sources to allow others to check.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you disagree that the earth orbits the sun for example, it makes no
>>>> difference. The earth orbits the sun regardless of your protestations
>>>> and rhetoric. It is the same with the various historical topics
>>>> discussed here.
>>>
>>>Well, no, it isn't.   You are presenting some assertions as facts, and you
>>>are misusing numbers to do this.
>>>
>>>If you assert that one number is higher than another, when the reverse is
>>>clearly shown to be true, your assertion is not factually correct.
>>>
>>>If you assert that the number of legally sanctioned executions in Nazi
>>>Germany was low, by excluding the numbers from the courts that issued the
>>>largest number of capital sentences, your assertions will likewise not be
>>>factually correct.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The people to whom I'm speaking have enough knowledge
>>>> to know that what I said was true.
>>>
>>>And then there are those who checked the sources, and who know that it
>>>wasn't.
>>>
>>>Here's a hint: You're caught.  What you are presenting as true sometimes
>>>isn't, and in a number of cases it's been very easy to show this.
>>>
>>>By the way, Mr. McFee's German is rather more than adequate.
>>>
>>>So let's have your sources.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> >> I just have better ways to spend my
>>>>>> >> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or 
>>>>>> >> rejected
>>>>>> >> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to discuss
>>>>>> >> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so 
>>>>>> >> you
>>>>>> >> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources 
>>>>>> >> rather
>>>>>> >> than the dreck from nizkor.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Evasion noted.
>>>>>
>>>>>Evasion noted again.
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:29 EDT 2009
Article: 1997170 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:55:59 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:17:01 -0500, in
><7NidnfjmnPZ-DyzUnZ2dnUVZ_jeWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> And on and on it goes. Zundel was "determined to be a national security 
>> risk" solely on grounds of his being "likely to incite hatred against an 
>> identifiable group" -- which of course means nothing more than that he 
>> offended powerful Canadian Jewish groups by disputing parts of the Holocaust 
>> mythology.
>
>That isn't what the article says.  It says that he "he was detained
>for two years on a Security Certificate for being a foreign national
>alleged to be a threat to national security pending a court decision
>on the validity of the certificate."

Security Certificates make a mockery of our alleged "democracy". This
tool of tyranny needs to be abolished.

> 
>> That much is clear from the article. That was his one and only 
>> "crime" -- annoying Jews by questioning the Holocaust hoax, which as we know 
>> is of paramount importance to Jewish and Zionist interests.
>
>The very article you cite contradicts that.
> 
>> > Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Sure did. It made me look more closely into the Zundel issue and, if you'll 
>> pardon my saying so, satisfy myself that what you're saying is mostly a 
>> rather mediocre grade of baloney.
>
>I would not have expected you to say anything else.  You cannot admit
>the truth about Zündel because that would force you to stop lying
>about Jews.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:29 EDT 2009
Article: 1997171 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jailed for truth telling
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On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:09:45 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:08:13 +1000, in
>, "B. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:YmZrl.16657$UQ6.16296@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>> > On 3/3/2009 in Message ,
>> > B. Cramer  wrote:
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >>> read more »
>> >>
>> >>> Hitler went to war with the 3 greatest military powers on Earth, invaded 
>> >>> and occupied all of mainland Europe and North Africa. The Allies were 
>> >>> protecting themselves, you fucking idiot.
>> >>
>> >> It was Britain and France who declared war on Germany you fucking idiot.
>> >
>> > After Germany invaded Poland unprovoked, in the full knowledge that
>> > Britain and France had non-aggression pacts with Poland and would have
>> > to declare war if Germany invaded.

Obviously Uncle Stalin was entitled to as much Polish territory as he
wished, but Germany was castigated by the hypocritical Brits for
recovering stolen property in the form of the corridor lands.

Your allied "history" makes no sense, especially given that all of
Poland was haned to Stalin as a gift in 1945. All of a sudden, Polish
"independence" was no longer an issue for the allies.

>> 
>> Really?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Is that so.
>
>Yes.
>
>> You can now read Hitler's mind, huh?
>
>That is not necessary.  Why are you off on tangents?
> 
>> Britain and France had been threatening all manner of actions against 
>> Germany prior to the attack on Poland and nothing came of it.
>
>Bullshit.  Name just one.
>
>> Why would 
>> Hitler have suddenly "known" the Brits and France would now declare war on 
>> him.
>
>Because, unlike you, he was not an idiot.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:29 EDT 2009
Article: 1997172 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Blatant Truth
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:54:25 -0800 (PST), "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>Listen, I KNOW the Holocaust happened. Its probably the most heavily
>documented tragedy ever.  But I chirp into this newsgroup because I
>hate Jews. When I was growing up Jews in the neighborhood used to beat
>me up and I've vowed to get back at them. There is not a Holocaust
>denier that does not hates Jews (none that have yet to come forward).
>The bulk of the "Holocaust deniers" know that the Holocaust happened,
>as well.

The foregoing is a pretty clumsy forgery and shows the sheer abject
desperation of Ben's opponents. Ben is obviously being effective if
they go to the trouble of forging material under his name in a futile
effort to achieve debating points.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:30 EDT 2009
Article: 1997530 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:34:52 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/6/2009 10:10 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:cro3r4l3845m3omv51opf4ftoifm2nh7v3@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:13:20 +1000, in 
>>> , "B. Cramer" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:WmZrl.16655$UQ6.10680@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>> On 3/3/2009 in Message 
>>>>> , B. Cramer 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:l8prq4d2t014ai8261vobmrqm06hp0phk4@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:48:27 +1000, in 
>>>>>>> <2KGdnVgl3oB2WTHUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B. 
>>>>>>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:g06pq4psg1thkb9l1rgfisghkgpm5bvl92@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:27:27 -0500, in 
>>>>>>>>> , Johannes 
>>>>>>>>> von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in 
>>>>>>>>>>> , 
>>>>>>>>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McFee  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Besides, there isn't much point to giving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  German-language sources to this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illiterate clown. It would just be a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waste of my time. The timing of both laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  is a matter of public record, as are the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  gross allied excesses in postwar 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany. People were sick and tired of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being exposed to allied caprice and of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having no rights in their own country.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then why are you terrified to post the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> German language sources?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are terrified to post the German language 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sources that you claim exist.  Of course, we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why that is. They don't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yawn.
>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that 
>>>>>>>>>>> your assertions are not supported by fact.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a 
>>>>>>>>>> debate with you. I know what I have said and written 
>>>>>>>>>> is true, and that is ultimately all that matters. 
>>>>>>>>>> Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, you have it wrong.  If you make a claim such as 
>>>>>>>>> that there are German language sources , you are 
>>>>>>>>> expected to support it with proof of some kind.  If you
>>>>>>>>>  are unable to do so, your claim is worthless.  If all 
>>>>>>>>> you are trying to do here is convince yourself, carry 
>>>>>>>>> on, but you look very stupid.
>>>>>>>> Rightoh.
>>>>>>> You got it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Provide some proof the Nazis were involved in the 
>>>>>>>> massacre of jews at Babi Yar. Proof, please - none of 
>>>>>>>> your usual nizkor or holocaust(tm) history hosted shite.
>>>>>>> When we need you, we will send for you.
>>>>>> Fleeing again, old feller? Unable to provide answers, old 
>>>>>> feller?
>>>>> No, I'm here.  This is between Johannes and me, unless you are 
>>>>> prepared to provide the proof he is running away from.  If you 
>>>>> are, go for it.
>>>> I believe it's you who is fleeing, again, old feller. Why can't 
>>>> you provide the information he seeks?
>>> 
>>> So you can't provide the proof he is running from.
>> 
>> He's not running from anything.
>
>Oh but he is.  I said to him:
>
>"If you make a claim such as that there are German language sources ,
>you are expected to support it with proof of some kind.  If you are
>unable to do so, your claim is worthless.  If all you are trying to do
>here is convince yourself, carry on, but you look very stupid."
>
>Rather than do that, he pulled the old denier deflection gambit and said:
>
>"Provide some proof the Nazis were involved in the massacre of jews at
>Babi Yar."

I never made that statement. You have just established yourself as an
arsehole, a liar, or both.

>
>The runner therefore is your friend Johannes.
>
>> You, though, are most certainly being deceptive.
>
>Funny you say that after the lie you just posted a fe wlines above.
>
>> Why do you lie, old feller? Have you got yid blood in you?
>
>I don't lie, since I am not a denier and have no need to lie.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:30 EDT 2009
Article: 1997532 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:44:50 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/7/2009 10:55 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that was
>>  the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin and was essentially the
>>  supreme court under a different name.
>
>It wasn't the Supreme Court under a different name.  It was outside the
>normal court system as near as I can tell.

Can you come up with something more substantial than Wikipedia for
your assertion? Technically, everything that was done was legal since
the Enabling Act gave the Chancellor and President the power to govern
by proclamation. Anything that was said was law the moment it was
published in the Reichstag record. The Volksgericht was as legal as
any other court during the period. Obviously many of their verdicts
were purely political, but that certainly wasn't unique to them. The
postwar allied kangaroo courts were no better when it came to
political "justice".

>
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgerichtshof


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:30 EDT 2009
Article: 1997533 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jailed for truth telling
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <2ce8r4969e682bqsitedlluhvft88aa9c6@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:24:22 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf escribió:
>> On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:09:45 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:08:13 +1000, in
>>> , "B. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:YmZrl.16657$UQ6.16296@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>> On 3/3/2009 in Message ,
>>>>> B. Cramer  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>> read more »
>>>>>>> Hitler went to war with the 3 greatest military powers on Earth, invaded 
>>>>>>> and occupied all of mainland Europe and North Africa. The Allies were 
>>>>>>> protecting themselves, you fucking idiot.
>>>>>> It was Britain and France who declared war on Germany you fucking idiot.
>>>>> After Germany invaded Poland unprovoked, in the full knowledge that
>>>>> Britain and France had non-aggression pacts with Poland and would have
>>>>> to declare war if Germany invaded.
>> 
>> Obviously Uncle Stalin was entitled to as much Polish territory as he
>> wished, but Germany was castigated by the hypocritical Brits for
>> recovering stolen property in the form of the corridor lands.
>> 
>> Your allied "history" makes no sense, especially given that all of
>> Poland was haned to Stalin as a gift in 1945. All of a sudden, Polish
>> "independence" was no longer an issue for the allies.
>> 
>
>Amazing fact: it existed a post war Polish government-in-exile until 1990.
>
><>
>
>The Polish government-in-exile ("Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile") was 
>the government of Poland after the country had been occupied by Germany and the 
>Soviet Union at the start of World War II (September and October 1939). Thereafter, 
>for the remainder of the war, it commanded Polish armed forces operating outside Poland.
>
>Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War 
>II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, when 
>it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.

Amazing. Thank you for the information.

>
><>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_government_in_exile


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:31 EDT 2009
Article: 1997534 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A door in Majdanek - Numbers and Prussian blue variable.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <49ad5695$0$14787$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> <49ad7d7a$1@news.x-privat.org> <49ad8140$0$29953$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> <49ad85b5@news.x-privat.org>  <49aeb22f$1@news.x-privat.org>  <49b199ca@news.x-privat.org>  <49b2aa43@news.x-privat.org>
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On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:09:14 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>I'll Always Be 06-03-09 escribió:
>> Zulu  wrote in
>> news:49b199ca@news.x-privat.org: 
>> 
>>> I'll Always Be 04-03-09 escribió:
>>>> Zulu  wrote in
>>>> news:49aeb22f$1@news.x-privat.org: 
>>>>
>>>>> I'll Always Be 03-03-09 escribió:
>>>>>> Zulu  wrote in
>>>>>> news:49ad85b5@news.x-privat.org: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Toivo Kottarainen escribió:
>>>>>>>> "Zulu"  kirjoitti 
>>>>>>>> viestissä:49ad7d7a$1@news.x-privat.org...
>>>>>>>>> Toivo Kottarainen escribió:
>> http://faculty.berea.edu/gowlers/remembering/majdanek/pages/gas_chambe
>>>>>>>>>> r_jpg.htm 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There´s a door to one of Majdaneks gas chambers, It´s made of
>>>>>>>>>> steel, with tree hinges, a peephole and a handle. There are towo
>>>>>>>>>> locks that cannot be winded from the inside and outside a latch
>>>>>>>>>> on the wall, propably for an extra secure bar with a hook.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How many jews were actually killed at Majdanek?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.majdanek.pl/?lng=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From the very beginning of their stay at the camp, the prisoners
>>>>>>>> were inevitably accompanied by hunger, fear, backbreaking work and
>>>>>>>> diseases. For all real and imagined offences prisoners were
>>>>>>>> severely punished and persecuted. Prisoners’ lives were constantly
>>>>>>>> threatened. They died in the aftermath of wretched living
>>>>>>>> conditions, they were executed and murdered in gas chambers. Among
>>>>>>>> an estimated 150,000 prisoners who entered Majdanek, 80,000 people,
>>>>>>>> including 60,000 Jews, were killed according to the most recent
>>>>>>>> research. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Proofs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Proof of "gassing operations"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proof of making a bar of soap from chicken fat?
>>>>> Basic chemistry MORON.
>>>>>
>>>>> fat or oil + alkali --> soap + glycerin
>>>>>
>>>>> Fat
>>>>>
>>>>> Soap is derived from either vegetable or animal fats. Sodium
>>>>> tallowate, a common ingredient in many soaps, is derived from rendered
>>>>> beef fat. Soap can also be made of vegetable oils, such as palm oil,
>>>>> and the product is typically softer. If soap is made from pure olive
>>>>> oil it may be called Castile soap or Marseille soap. Castile is also
>>>>> sometimes applied to soaps with a mix of oils, but a high percentage
>>>>> of olive oil. 
>>>>>
>>>>> An array of oils and butters are used in the process such as olive,
>>>>> coconut, palm, cocoa butter, hemp oil and shea butter to provide
>>>>> different qualities. For example, olive oil provides mildness in soap;
>>>>> coconut oil provides lots of lather; while coconut and palm oils
>>>>> provide hardness. Sometimes castor oil can also be used as an
>>>>> ebullient. Most common, though, is a combination of coconut, palm, and
>>>>> olive oils. 
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Saponification
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Saponification is commonly used to refer to the reaction of a metallic
>>>>> alkali (base) with a fat or oil to form soap. Saponifiable substances
>>>>> are those that can be converted into soap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sodium hydroxide (NaOH) is a caustic base. If NaOH is used a hard soap
>>>>> is formed, whereas when potassium hydroxide (KOH) is used, a soft soap
>>>>> is formed. Vegetable oils and animal fats are fatty esters in the form
>>>>> of triglycerides. The alkali breaks the ester bond and releases the
>>>>> fatty acid salt and glycerol. If necessary, soaps may be precipitated
>>>>> by salting it out with saturated sodium chloride. The saponification
>>>>> value is the amount of base required to saponify a fat sample. 
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponification
>>>>>
>>>> Nice theory, but you still can't prove that you can make a bar of soap 
>>>> from chicken fat.
>>> I have not received your $300 to do that simple experiment.
>>> Are you pretending that I would make it for you free of charge?
>> 
>> 
>> Why would anyone pay YOU to prove YOUR DOGMA?
>> 
>
>Science is not dogma. Go back to school moron.

Very little of their stuff stands up to scientific scrutiny.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:31 EDT 2009
Article: 1997535 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Majdanek - Germar Rudolf
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <9-udnQ_7SeN1WTDUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com> <1c19fef3-c0ab-4b53-8260-66086c1de61d@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <1nZrl.16661$UQ6.2443@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com> <_Jidnft0C78yey3UnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2vp3r41rdra08sl1q4qf02timcsnb7cfnt@4ax.com>   
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On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 12:34:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:JPFsl.25184$UQ6.19232@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 3/6/2009 10:28 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:2vp3r41rdra08sl1q4qf02timcsnb7cfnt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:02:37 +1000, in
>>>> <_Jidnft0C78yey3UnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:1nZrl.16661$UQ6.2443@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> On 3/3/2009 9:15 PM, z wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 7:00 pm, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>> The 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Majdanek
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> by Germar Rudolf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Introduction
>>>>>>> Dr. Germar Rudolf; aka Ernst Gauss, aka Dipl.-Ing. Manfred Gerner,
>>>>>>> aka Dr. Ch. Konrad, Historiker, aka Dr. jur. Werner Kretschmer, aka
>>>>>>> Dr. Lennard Rose, aka Dr.Dr. R. Scholz, Chemiker und Pharmakologe,
>>>>>>> aka H.K. Westphal, Dipl.-Ingenieur. OK, for the sake of argument,
>>>>>>> let's say that perhaps Rudolf has very good reasons for using all
>>>>>>> these aliases (although they do bring up the interesting question; if
>>>>>>> a person earns a doctoral degree, do their aliases also earn the same
>>>>>>>  degree?)
>>>>>> Interesting.  You would almost think he was trying to pretend he is
>>>>>> someone he isn't.  Especially when he uses purported writing from one
>>>>>> alias to support the statements of another alias.  Some people would
>>>>>> call that dishonest.
>>>>> It's what you cunts do all the time, old feller. mcFey uses his own 
>>>>> site for
>>>>> reference, you use his site, he uses your site - it's a merry-go-round 
>>>>> of
>>>>> deceit, lies and treachery.
>>>> I realize it is hard for you to keep up, especially with the beating
>>>> Keenan is giving you, but the issue is Rudolf's dishonesty.
>>>
>>> BBBBWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>>>
>>> You are goddamned pathetic, old feller.
>>>
>>> More of your lies about the effectivness of the arch liar, keenan and 
>>> more unfortunate blather from you about Rudolf.
>>
>> He has you completely unhinged, it is clear.
>
>You keep spraying that, yet are unable to support  your claim with anything 
>but your usual hot air.

Hot air he has in abundance, but little else.

>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:32 EDT 2009
Article: 1997698 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:24:57 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/8/2009 5:31 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:44:50 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/7/2009 10:55 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that
>>>> was the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin and was
>>>> essentially the supreme court under a different name.
>>> It wasn't the Supreme Court under a different name.  It was outside
>>> the normal court system as near as I can tell.
>> 
>> Can you come up with something more substantial than Wikipedia for 
>> your assertion? Technically, everything that was done was legal since
>>  the Enabling Act gave the Chancellor and President the power to
>> govern by proclamation. Anything that was said was law the moment it
>> was published in the Reichstag record. The Volksgericht was as legal
>> as any other court during the period. Obviously many of their
>> verdicts were purely political, but that certainly wasn't unique to
>> them. The postwar allied kangaroo courts were no better when it came
>> to political "justice".
>
>I wasn't trying to say that the Volksgerichtshof was illegal, just that
>it wasn't the Supreme Court.

Article 105 of the German Constitution states: Extraordinary Courts
are prohibited.

The Enabling Act allowed the President/Chancellor to enact laws
deviating from the constitution, but only if they did not impact the
powers of the Reichstag and Reichsrat. The courts are the business of
the Reichstag and the Reichsrat.

>
>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgerichtshof


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:32 EDT 2009
Article: 1997699 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:19:51 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l165r4psmsr08bhb3fq5k179athnkambec@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:18:34 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:fef2r41vuaocoposc9r7ajto6etr5tm3hd@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:16:57 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:r9kmq4d7st2nghks58nigevosm3cpos30q@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>>>>>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>>>>>>>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von 
>>>>>>>> >Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >[...]
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language
>>>>>>>> >> >> sources
>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. 
>>>>>>>> >> >> The
>>>>>>>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the
>>>>>>>> >> >> gross
>>>>>>>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired
>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in 
>>>>>>>> >> >> their
>>>>>>>> >> >> own
>>>>>>>> >> >> country.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you 
>>>>>>>> >claim
>>>>>>>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yawn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions are
>>>>>>>not supported by fact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with you.
>>>>>> I know what I have said and written is true,
>>>>>
>>>>>Except that in many cases, it isn't, and is easily shown to not be true.
>>>>
>>>> You have yet to show that anything I have written is untrue,
>>>
>>>Yes,  I have done this.
>>>
>>>>  only that
>>>> it is at variance with allied propaganda. Allied propaganda is not the
>>>> anchor or reference point for truth.
>>>
>>>I showed, using British statistics that are in no way British propaganda,
>>>that what you posted about British bomb vs. traffic deaths was untrue.
>>
>> You were playing word games
>
>No, I am showing that the figures you presented are false.
>
>You didn't check them, and now pretend that the fact that you got it 
>completely backwards is inconsequential.
>
>And it isn't, because when you proceed to do exactly the same thing again, 
>we can begin to perceive a pattern.
>
>> to deflect attention away from the fact
>> that British bombing fatalities were an order of magnitude lower than
>> those in Germany,
>
>That is not related in any way to the claim you made.
>
>But it's not surprising that you seek to alter the terms, given how wrong 
>you turned out to be.
>
>> suggesting that allied efforts were directed against
>> people  and not against military facilities as they like to claim.
>>
>> The British bombing deaths were of the same order of magnitude as the
>> traffic total for the same period.
>
>This is a complete change from what your original claim, and has nothing 
>whatsoever to do with what you originally suggested.
>
>Your original claim was simply that more people were killed in GB by traffic 
>than by bombs.
>
>Your claim, which was then shown to be wrong, is simply a comparison of two 
>numbers.
>
>In addition to being a completely unfounded and easily disproven claim, it 
>refers in no way to the statistics in other countries.
>
>>>And it's clear that you decided to pretend that a lot fewer people were
>>>executed under color of law in Nazi Germany by deciding to ignore the
>>>People's Courts and their practice of judicial executions.
>>
>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that was
>> the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin
>
>Friesler was the head of the Volksgerichtshof for three years, from 1942 to 
>1945.   The Volksgerichtshof, however, was created in 1934.
>
>The Volksgerichtshof ran for eight years before Friesler was appointed. 
>The preceding Judge-Presidents were Fritz Rehn (who died a few weeks after 
>his appointment) and Otto Thierack (who ran it from 1936 to 1942, when he 
>was appointed Reich Minister of Justice).
>
>The one following Friesler, who was killed in an air raid,  was Harry 
>Haffner.   Haffner ran it from 12 March 1945 to 24 April 1945, two weeks 
>before the Germans surrendered.
>
>So here, we see you again trying to manipulate the numbers and the history 
>in the most blatant and obvious way, by excluding data you don't like.
>
>It's almost like you don't care if you get caught making things up.   And 
>yet, you express a complete distrust for the historical record.
>
>> and was essentially the
>> supreme court under a different name.
>
>We'll come back to that odd suggestion later, because by acknowledging 
>Friesler and claiming that it was "essentially the supreme court", you 
>acknowledge that your original premise is false.
>
>Let's recap, shall we?
>
>In response to the suggestion that the Nazis had issued perhaps 30,000 death 
>sentences under colour of law (and that this is the reason that the postwar 
>German state outlawed capital punishment), you put forward the idea that the 
>Supreme Court issued only *240 death sentences*, and that *only the Supreme 
>Court could issue death sentences* under color of law.
>
>Now you realize you have to include the Volksgerichtshof, because their 
>existence was pointed out to you.
>
>However, during only the *three year* that Friesler was head of the 
>Volksgerichtshof,  it issued more than *five thousand* death sentences.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Freisler
>
>Again, we see you being unable to determine which of two numbers, which 
>happen to be thousands apart, is the larger.
>
>We are faced with two options here   Either:
>
>1) the People's Courts were part of the Supreme Court, in which case your 
>suggestion of 240 death sentences is wrong by a very large degree, or
>
>2) they were not part of the Supreme Court and your suggestion that only the 
>Supreme Court could issue death sentences under colour of law is patently 
>false.
>
>Which will you choose?
>
>Regardless of which one you pick, the numbers you presented are wrong and 
>your original premise is shown to be unfounded.

It is EXACTLY what I said earlier. The book I had seen posted the
traffic deaths as slightly higher than the bombing deaths. The
difference between the two is not large, so my point stands. Your
sophistry does not alter the fact that allied bombings were
essentially terrorist in nature while the German bombings were
primarily military in nature.

>
>Again.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>>
>>>So yes, I have certainly shown that you have written things that were
>>>untrue.
>>>
>>>Further, you now claim that I haven't done so, and I have shown that that
>>>claim is also untrue.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now, about those sources you are so reluctant to bring forth?
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> and that is ultimately
>>>>>> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interestingly, all the protestations of "belief" are coming from you,
>>>>>whose
>>>>>pronouncements have been shown several times now to not be based on 
>>>>>facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your position seems to be that people have told you things, and you hold
>>>>>them to be true.   You won't provide sources to allow others to check.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you disagree that the earth orbits the sun for example, it makes no
>>>>>> difference. The earth orbits the sun regardless of your protestations
>>>>>> and rhetoric. It is the same with the various historical topics
>>>>>> discussed here.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, no, it isn't.   You are presenting some assertions as facts, and 
>>>>>you
>>>>>are misusing numbers to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you assert that one number is higher than another, when the reverse 
>>>>>is
>>>>>clearly shown to be true, your assertion is not factually correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you assert that the number of legally sanctioned executions in Nazi
>>>>>Germany was low, by excluding the numbers from the courts that issued 
>>>>>the
>>>>>largest number of capital sentences, your assertions will likewise not 
>>>>>be
>>>>>factually correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The people to whom I'm speaking have enough knowledge
>>>>>> to know that what I said was true.
>>>>>
>>>>>And then there are those who checked the sources, and who know that it
>>>>>wasn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's a hint: You're caught.  What you are presenting as true sometimes
>>>>>isn't, and in a number of cases it's been very easy to show this.
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way, Mr. McFee's German is rather more than adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>>So let's have your sources.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >> I just have better ways to spend my
>>>>>>>> >> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or
>>>>>>>> >> rejected
>>>>>>>> >> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to 
>>>>>>>> >> discuss
>>>>>>>> >> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so
>>>>>>>> >> you
>>>>>>>> >> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources
>>>>>>>> >> rather
>>>>>>>> >> than the dreck from nizkor.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >Evasion noted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Evasion noted again.
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1997921 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:43:07 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:CZZsl.28452$UQ6.11601@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
>> Exactly. WHAT about the 6 million? That is what we've been asking for, old 
>> feller. You're beginning to get it.
>> >
>> > And what were they fleeing from?
>> 
>> They should have thought of the consequences of their having declared they 
>> were going to destroy Germany.
>
>A Jewish organization, one that not all Jews belonged to, "declared war"
>on Germany in retaliation for Germany having effectively declared war on
>Jews by passing harsh anti-Semitic. legislation and engaging in such
>activities as boycotting Jewish businesses and burning books written by
>Jews.

You're being awfully loose with the time-line here, Eugene. You seem
to be deliberately blurring the distinction between provocation and
reaction. The anti-German actions occurred BEFORE most of the
anti-Jewish actions.



> The important difference is that Germany had a military, the Jews of
>Germany and other countries did not.
>
>> Sensible people would have done so.
>> 
>> Loyal citizens would not have declared war on their host nation in the first 
>> instance.
>
>The Nuremberg Laws deprived German Jews of their citizenship. They could
>no longer be loyal citizens, even if they wanted to be.
>
>Neither does your position explain why the Germans were not content simply
>to off German Jews, but rather combed the continent from Norway to Estonia
>and from France to Ukraine, seeking out and destroying Jews. The widely
>accepted statistics for the Holocaust indicate that only 3% of the
>Holocaust victims were German Jews. Additionally, Germany encouraged its
>Jews to emigrate, and about half of them had done so before the war broke
>out in 1939. Many of them migrated to neighboring countries, particularly
>Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Denmark, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and
>Austria. Unfortunately for them, Nazi Gerany invaded all of these and many
>other countries, and after having established an occupation government,
>made ferreting out and killing Jews a top priority.
>
>Certain Jews may have symblically declared war on Germany as a justified
>response to Nazi anti-Jewish legislation, but the Jews as an entity never
>fired a single shot in their "war". All of the initiative came from the
>Germans and the Jews had no resources to fight back other than as
>partisans in Eastern Europe, who, like their Soviet, Polish, and Yugoslav
>compatriots, were defending their homelands, families, and property
>against marauding invaders.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1997923 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:57:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:g97ar4l8102v5efkhk855re55d05bb6kp0@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:24:57 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/8/2009 5:31 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:44:50 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/7/2009 10:55 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that
>>>>>> was the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin and was
>>>>>> essentially the supreme court under a different name.
>>>>> It wasn't the Supreme Court under a different name.  It was outside
>>>>> the normal court system as near as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> Can you come up with something more substantial than Wikipedia for
>>>> your assertion? Technically, everything that was done was legal since
>>>>  the Enabling Act gave the Chancellor and President the power to
>>>> govern by proclamation. Anything that was said was law the moment it
>>>> was published in the Reichstag record. The Volksgericht was as legal
>>>> as any other court during the period. Obviously many of their
>>>> verdicts were purely political, but that certainly wasn't unique to
>>>> them. The postwar allied kangaroo courts were no better when it came
>>>> to political "justice".
>>>
>>>I wasn't trying to say that the Volksgerichtshof was illegal, just that
>>>it wasn't the Supreme Court.
>>
>> Article 105 of the German Constitution states: Extraordinary Courts
>> are prohibited.
>>
>> The Enabling Act allowed the President/Chancellor to enact laws
>> deviating from the constitution, but only if they did not impact the
>> powers of the Reichstag and Reichsrat. The courts are the business of
>> the Reichstag and the Reichsrat.
>
>You're wasting your time, Johannes.
>
>They do not want truth nor will they ever admit they are wrong. They are 
>contractually obliged to lie through their teeth.

It certainly does seem that way. They are here primarily to obstruct
and to intimidate.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1997925 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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rOn Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:30:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:cq7ar4548n4c6h0h1uq2850gqp8daisi4o@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:19:51 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:l165r4psmsr08bhb3fq5k179athnkambec@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:18:34 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:fef2r41vuaocoposc9r7ajto6etr5tm3hd@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:16:57 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:r9kmq4d7st2nghks58nigevosm3cpos30q@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von
>>>>>>>>>> >Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >[...]
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> sources
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> The
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> gross
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and 
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> tired
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> their
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> own
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> country.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language 
>>>>>>>>>> >> >sources?
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you
>>>>>>>>>> >claim
>>>>>>>>>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yawn.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions 
>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>not supported by fact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with 
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>> I know what I have said and written is true,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Except that in many cases, it isn't, and is easily shown to not be 
>>>>>>>true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have yet to show that anything I have written is untrue,
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes,  I have done this.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  only that
>>>>>> it is at variance with allied propaganda. Allied propaganda is not the
>>>>>> anchor or reference point for truth.
>>>>>
>>>>>I showed, using British statistics that are in no way British 
>>>>>propaganda,
>>>>>that what you posted about British bomb vs. traffic deaths was untrue.
>>>>
>>>> You were playing word games
>>>
>>>No, I am showing that the figures you presented are false.
>>>
>>>You didn't check them, and now pretend that the fact that you got it
>>>completely backwards is inconsequential.
>>>
>>>And it isn't, because when you proceed to do exactly the same thing again,
>>>we can begin to perceive a pattern.
>>>
>>>> to deflect attention away from the fact
>>>> that British bombing fatalities were an order of magnitude lower than
>>>> those in Germany,
>>>
>>>That is not related in any way to the claim you made.
>>>
>>>But it's not surprising that you seek to alter the terms, given how wrong
>>>you turned out to be.
>>>
>>>> suggesting that allied efforts were directed against
>>>> people  and not against military facilities as they like to claim.
>>>>
>>>> The British bombing deaths were of the same order of magnitude as the
>>>> traffic total for the same period.
>>>
>>>This is a complete change from what your original claim, and has nothing
>>>whatsoever to do with what you originally suggested.
>>>
>>>Your original claim was simply that more people were killed in GB by 
>>>traffic
>>>than by bombs.
>>>
>>>Your claim, which was then shown to be wrong, is simply a comparison of 
>>>two
>>>numbers.
>>>
>>>In addition to being a completely unfounded and easily disproven claim, it
>>>refers in no way to the statistics in other countries.
>>>
>>>>>And it's clear that you decided to pretend that a lot fewer people were
>>>>>executed under color of law in Nazi Germany by deciding to ignore the
>>>>>People's Courts and their practice of judicial executions.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that was
>>>> the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin
>>>
>>>Friesler was the head of the Volksgerichtshof for three years, from 1942 
>>>to
>>>1945.   The Volksgerichtshof, however, was created in 1934.
>>>
>>>The Volksgerichtshof ran for eight years before Friesler was appointed.
>>>The preceding Judge-Presidents were Fritz Rehn (who died a few weeks after
>>>his appointment) and Otto Thierack (who ran it from 1936 to 1942, when he
>>>was appointed Reich Minister of Justice).
>>>
>>>The one following Friesler, who was killed in an air raid,  was Harry
>>>Haffner.   Haffner ran it from 12 March 1945 to 24 April 1945, two weeks
>>>before the Germans surrendered.
>>>
>>>So here, we see you again trying to manipulate the numbers and the history
>>>in the most blatant and obvious way, by excluding data you don't like.
>>>
>>>It's almost like you don't care if you get caught making things up.   And
>>>yet, you express a complete distrust for the historical record.
>>>
>>>> and was essentially the
>>>> supreme court under a different name.
>>>
>>>We'll come back to that odd suggestion later, because by acknowledging
>>>Friesler and claiming that it was "essentially the supreme court", you
>>>acknowledge that your original premise is false.
>>>
>>>Let's recap, shall we?
>>>
>>>In response to the suggestion that the Nazis had issued perhaps 30,000 
>>>death
>>>sentences under colour of law (and that this is the reason that the 
>>>postwar
>>>German state outlawed capital punishment), you put forward the idea that 
>>>the
>>>Supreme Court issued only *240 death sentences*, and that *only the 
>>>Supreme
>>>Court could issue death sentences* under color of law.
>>>
>>>Now you realize you have to include the Volksgerichtshof, because their
>>>existence was pointed out to you.
>>>
>>>However, during only the *three year* that Friesler was head of the
>>>Volksgerichtshof,  it issued more than *five thousand* death sentences.
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Freisler
>>>
>>>Again, we see you being unable to determine which of two numbers, which
>>>happen to be thousands apart, is the larger.
>>>
>>>We are faced with two options here   Either:
>>>
>>>1) the People's Courts were part of the Supreme Court, in which case your
>>>suggestion of 240 death sentences is wrong by a very large degree, or
>>>
>>>2) they were not part of the Supreme Court and your suggestion that only 
>>>the
>>>Supreme Court could issue death sentences under colour of law is patently
>>>false.
>>>
>>>Which will you choose?
>>>
>>>Regardless of which one you pick, the numbers you presented are wrong and
>>>your original premise is shown to be unfounded.
>>
>> It is EXACTLY what I said earlier. The book I had seen posted the
>
>What book is this?
>
>> traffic deaths as slightly higher than the bombing deaths.
>
>It is wrong.   The traffic deaths are lower, by IIRC at least ten thousand.
>
>> The
>> difference between the two is not large,
>
>The difference is between 10 and 20 %.   It is significant.
>
>> so my point stands.
>
>Only in a world where a 5 is more than 6.
>
>Your "point" was allegedly that more British were killed in traffic than by 
>bombs, and British statistics show that this is not the case.
>
>Your point, and premise, are unfounded.
>
>> Your sophistry
>
>Do you even know what that word means?

Yes, I know exactly what it means, you illiterate buffoon.

>
>I am using facts.  You are not.
>
>> does not alter the fact that allied bombings were
>> essentially terrorist in nature
>
>That is your opinion.   And it is *only* an opinion.
>
>> while the German bombings were
>> primarily military in nature.
>
>That is an opinion, not a fact, and while it may be your opinion now, it in 
>no way supports your original claim - a claim that has been shown to be 
>wrong.
>
>In addition, it does not in any way support your claim that *only* the 
>German Supreme Court could issue death sentences, or that only 250 or so 
>were issued during the 12-year Reich.    Those claims have also been shown 
>to be very, very wrong.
>
>Instead, many thousands of death sentences were issued and executed by other 
>courts (including courts you had to admit existed)  under colour of law, and 
>it's most likely that it was *this* abuse of the German population *by its 
>own government* that caused the German population to choose to discard the 
>death penalty as soon as the Nazis were gone from power.

That is false. There were thousands of executions between 1945 and
1949. Capital punishment was abolished once the allies gave control
back to the German authorities in 1949. Nothing much changed on the
execution front between NS rule and allied rule.

>
>Your points, and premises, are shown to be unfounded.
>
>Again.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Again.
>>>
>>>Hope this helps.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So yes, I have certainly shown that you have written things that were
>>>>>untrue.
>>>>>
>>>>>Further, you now claim that I haven't done so, and I have shown that 
>>>>>that
>>>>>claim is also untrue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, about those sources you are so reluctant to bring forth?
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and that is ultimately
>>>>>>>> all that matters. Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Interestingly, all the protestations of "belief" are coming from you,
>>>>>>>whose
>>>>>>>pronouncements have been shown several times now to not be based on
>>>>>>>facts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your position seems to be that people have told you things, and you 
>>>>>>>hold
>>>>>>>them to be true.   You won't provide sources to allow others to check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you disagree that the earth orbits the sun for example, it makes 
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> difference. The earth orbits the sun regardless of your 
>>>>>>>> protestations
>>>>>>>> and rhetoric. It is the same with the various historical topics
>>>>>>>> discussed here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well, no, it isn't.   You are presenting some assertions as facts, and
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>are misusing numbers to do this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you assert that one number is higher than another, when the reverse
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>clearly shown to be true, your assertion is not factually correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you assert that the number of legally sanctioned executions in Nazi
>>>>>>>Germany was low, by excluding the numbers from the courts that issued
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>largest number of capital sentences, your assertions will likewise not
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>factually correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The people to whom I'm speaking have enough knowledge
>>>>>>>> to know that what I said was true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And then there are those who checked the sources, and who know that it
>>>>>>>wasn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here's a hint: You're caught.  What you are presenting as true 
>>>>>>>sometimes
>>>>>>>isn't, and in a number of cases it's been very easy to show this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By the way, Mr. McFee's German is rather more than adequate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So let's have your sources.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I just have better ways to spend my
>>>>>>>>>> >> time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or
>>>>>>>>>> >> rejected
>>>>>>>>>> >> by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to
>>>>>>>>>> >> discuss
>>>>>>>>>> >> anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, 
>>>>>>>>>> >> so
>>>>>>>>>> >> you
>>>>>>>>>> >> are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources
>>>>>>>>>> >> rather
>>>>>>>>>> >> than the dreck from nizkor.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >Evasion noted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Evasion noted again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:34 EDT 2009
Article: 1998243 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:25:17 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tuncr4pfo2b1020t7chsk2e7gg2in2624f@4ax.com...
>> rOn Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:30:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:cq7ar4548n4c6h0h1uq2850gqp8daisi4o@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:19:51 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:l165r4psmsr08bhb3fq5k179athnkambec@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 16:18:34 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:fef2r41vuaocoposc9r7ajto6etr5tm3hd@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:16:57 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:r9kmq4d7st2nghks58nigevosm3cpos30q@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:01:20 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:09:10 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>>>, Johannes von 
>>>>>>>>>>>Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:54:07 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:36:25 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> ><23adq4lakd1vsetj21jnrvtrra1edcdrfe@4ax.com>, Johannes von
>>>>>>>>>>>> >Ebersdorf
>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >[...]
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> sources
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> The
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> gross
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> tired
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> own
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> country.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >Then why are you terrified to post the German language
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >sources?
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I'm not terrified of anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >You are terrified to post the German language sources that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> >claim
>>>>>>>>>>>> >exist.  Of course, we know why that is.  They don't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yawn.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Like I said.  Thanks for providing the proof that your assertions
>>>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>>>not supported by fact.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't care what you believe. I'm not involved in a debate with
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>> I know what I have said and written is true,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Except that in many cases, it isn't, and is easily shown to not be
>>>>>>>>>true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have yet to show that anything I have written is untrue,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes,  I have done this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  only that
>>>>>>>> it is at variance with allied propaganda. Allied propaganda is not 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> anchor or reference point for truth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I showed, using British statistics that are in no way British
>>>>>>>propaganda,
>>>>>>>that what you posted about British bomb vs. traffic deaths was untrue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You were playing word games
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I am showing that the figures you presented are false.
>>>>>
>>>>>You didn't check them, and now pretend that the fact that you got it
>>>>>completely backwards is inconsequential.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it isn't, because when you proceed to do exactly the same thing 
>>>>>again,
>>>>>we can begin to perceive a pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>>> to deflect attention away from the fact
>>>>>> that British bombing fatalities were an order of magnitude lower than
>>>>>> those in Germany,
>>>>>
>>>>>That is not related in any way to the claim you made.
>>>>>
>>>>>But it's not surprising that you seek to alter the terms, given how 
>>>>>wrong
>>>>>you turned out to be.
>>>>>
>>>>>> suggesting that allied efforts were directed against
>>>>>> people  and not against military facilities as they like to claim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The British bombing deaths were of the same order of magnitude as the
>>>>>> traffic total for the same period.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is a complete change from what your original claim, and has nothing
>>>>>whatsoever to do with what you originally suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your original claim was simply that more people were killed in GB by
>>>>>traffic
>>>>>than by bombs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your claim, which was then shown to be wrong, is simply a comparison of
>>>>>two
>>>>>numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>>In addition to being a completely unfounded and easily disproven claim, 
>>>>>it
>>>>>refers in no way to the statistics in other countries.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>And it's clear that you decided to pretend that a lot fewer people 
>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>executed under color of law in Nazi Germany by deciding to ignore the
>>>>>>>People's Courts and their practice of judicial executions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, there was exactly ONE "People's Court" and that was
>>>>>> the one headed by Justice Freisler in Berlin
>>>>>
>>>>>Friesler was the head of the Volksgerichtshof for three years, from 1942
>>>>>to
>>>>>1945.   The Volksgerichtshof, however, was created in 1934.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Volksgerichtshof ran for eight years before Friesler was appointed.
>>>>>The preceding Judge-Presidents were Fritz Rehn (who died a few weeks 
>>>>>after
>>>>>his appointment) and Otto Thierack (who ran it from 1936 to 1942, when 
>>>>>he
>>>>>was appointed Reich Minister of Justice).
>>>>>
>>>>>The one following Friesler, who was killed in an air raid,  was Harry
>>>>>Haffner.   Haffner ran it from 12 March 1945 to 24 April 1945, two weeks
>>>>>before the Germans surrendered.
>>>>>
>>>>>So here, we see you again trying to manipulate the numbers and the 
>>>>>history
>>>>>in the most blatant and obvious way, by excluding data you don't like.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's almost like you don't care if you get caught making things up. 
>>>>>And
>>>>>yet, you express a complete distrust for the historical record.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and was essentially the
>>>>>> supreme court under a different name.
>>>>>
>>>>>We'll come back to that odd suggestion later, because by acknowledging
>>>>>Friesler and claiming that it was "essentially the supreme court", you
>>>>>acknowledge that your original premise is false.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let's recap, shall we?
>>>>>
>>>>>In response to the suggestion that the Nazis had issued perhaps 30,000
>>>>>death
>>>>>sentences under colour of law (and that this is the reason that the
>>>>>postwar
>>>>>German state outlawed capital punishment), you put forward the idea that
>>>>>the
>>>>>Supreme Court issued only *240 death sentences*, and that *only the
>>>>>Supreme
>>>>>Court could issue death sentences* under color of law.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now you realize you have to include the Volksgerichtshof, because their
>>>>>existence was pointed out to you.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, during only the *three year* that Friesler was head of the
>>>>>Volksgerichtshof,  it issued more than *five thousand* death sentences.
>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Freisler
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, we see you being unable to determine which of two numbers, which
>>>>>happen to be thousands apart, is the larger.
>>>>>
>>>>>We are faced with two options here   Either:
>>>>>
>>>>>1) the People's Courts were part of the Supreme Court, in which case 
>>>>>your
>>>>>suggestion of 240 death sentences is wrong by a very large degree, or
>>>>>
>>>>>2) they were not part of the Supreme Court and your suggestion that only
>>>>>the
>>>>>Supreme Court could issue death sentences under colour of law is 
>>>>>patently
>>>>>false.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which will you choose?
>>>>>
>>>>>Regardless of which one you pick, the numbers you presented are wrong 
>>>>>and
>>>>>your original premise is shown to be unfounded.
>>>>
>>>> It is EXACTLY what I said earlier. The book I had seen posted the
>>>
>>>What book is this?
>>>
>>>> traffic deaths as slightly higher than the bombing deaths.
>>>
>>>It is wrong.   The traffic deaths are lower, by IIRC at least ten 
>>>thousand.
>>>
>>>> The
>>>> difference between the two is not large,
>>>
>>>The difference is between 10 and 20 %.   It is significant.
>>>
>>>> so my point stands.
>>>
>>>Only in a world where a 5 is more than 6.
>>>
>>>Your "point" was allegedly that more British were killed in traffic than 
>>>by
>>>bombs, and British statistics show that this is not the case.
>>>
>>>Your point, and premise, are unfounded.
>>>
>>>> Your sophistry
>>>
>>>Do you even know what that word means?
>>
>> Yes, I know exactly what it means, you illiterate buffoon.
>
>Then you should be aware that you are misusing it.
>
>
>>>I am using facts.  You are not.
>>>
>>>> does not alter the fact that allied bombings were
>>>> essentially terrorist in nature
>>>
>>>That is your opinion.   And it is *only* an opinion.
>>>
>>>> while the German bombings were
>>>> primarily military in nature.
>>>
>>>That is an opinion, not a fact, and while it may be your opinion now, it 
>>>in
>>>no way supports your original claim - a claim that has been shown to be
>>>wrong.
>>>
>>>In addition, it does not in any way support your claim that *only* the
>>>German Supreme Court could issue death sentences, or that only 250 or so
>>>were issued during the 12-year Reich.    Those claims have also been shown
>>>to be very, very wrong.
>>>
>>>Instead, many thousands of death sentences were issued and executed by 
>>>other
>>>courts (including courts you had to admit existed)  under colour of law, 
>>>and
>>>it's most likely that it was *this* abuse of the German population *by its
>>>own government* that caused the German population to choose to discard the
>>>death penalty as soon as the Nazis were gone from power.
>>
>> That is false. There were thousands of executions between 1945 and
>> 1949. Capital punishment was abolished once the allies gave control
>> back to the German authorities in 1949. Nothing much changed on the
>> execution front between NS rule and allied rule.
>
>Ah, so *now*, you aver that your initial claim was false.
>
>You had claimed that there were *not* thousands of executions under Nazi 
>rule, that there were only 250 or so.
>
>Now you claim that there were *thousands*.

Not at all, since the National Socialists were not in power during the
period 1945 to 1949. The allied hordes controlled the government.

>
>And so we finally see you admitting that this claim was not founded in 
>anything factual.
>
>Was that so hard?
>
>-pk
>
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:35 EDT 2009
Article: 1998244 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:08:56 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:43:07 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> >
>> >A Jewish organization, one that not all Jews belonged to, "declared war"
>> >on Germany in retaliation for Germany having effectively declared war on
>> >Jews by passing harsh anti-Semitic. legislation and engaging in such
>> >activities as boycotting Jewish businesses and burning books written by
>> >Jews.
>> 
>> You're being awfully loose with the time-line here, Eugene. 
>
>No I'm not. Hitler had built a career on anti-Semitism dating back more
>than a decade before actually comiong to power. The Jewish call to boycott
>Germany was a response to almost two months of having to live under
>Hitlerite governance.
>
>> You seem
>> to be deliberately blurring the distinction between provocation and
>> reaction. The anti-German actions occurred BEFORE most of the
>> anti-Jewish actions.
>
>Hitler had been publicly ranting and raving against Jews at least since
>his conversation with Josef Hell in 1922 and the publication of his *Mein
>Kampf* in 1925:
>
>A. Hitler's Conversation with Josef Hell, 1922:
>
>When Hell asked Hitler what he intended doing if he ever had full freedom
>of action against the Jews, his response was:
>
>"If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my
>first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have
>gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the
>Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be
>hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink.
>They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they
>are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until
>the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be
>followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!"
>(quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977,
>p.116) Source:http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm).
>
>B. Hitler in *Mein Kampf*:
>
>"If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen
>thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under
>poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German
>workers in the field, th sacrifice of millions at the front would not have
>been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in
>time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for
>the future." -- Vol. 2,
>chapter 15 of Hitler's "Mein Kampf",  1925. Source:
>http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch15.html.
>
>Hitler assumed power on January 30, 1933. This was immediately followed by
>increased persection of Jews in Germany, speeches by Hitler and other Nazi
>leaders appealing to German patriotism and racial pride emphasizing that
>the Jews were parasites who were the source of all that was wrong in
>Germany, as well as by the beefing up of the SA and SS, police structures
>used to harass and persecute Jews. The Reichstag fire of February 27
>srrved as a pretext for measures to be taken giving Hitler dicatorial
>powers, a political change that began to be implemented immediately, being
>finalized with the passing of the Enabling Act of March 24, 1933.
>
>The "declaration of war", actually a call to the world to boycott German
>goods and services as a response to Nazi excesses, was announced on March
>24, 1933
>(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/DailyExpress_March1933_judeafrontpage.jpg),
>nearly two months after Hitler had assumed power and focused a significant
>amount of state power on the scapegoating and persecution of Jews. This
>alleged "declaration of war" by the Jews was actually a journalistic
>exaggeration that appears to have been limited to a single newspaper, the
>British Daily Express. The call was a ctually for an anti-German boycott.
>It was a reasonable response to more than a decade of anti-Jewish rantings
>by Adolf Hitler as well as to the fact that he had consolidated a position
>for himself that would actually enable him to implement the anti-Semitic
>agenda that he had long been threatening.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman

Eugene, no government anywhere does very much during its first two
months in office because it doesn not have the means to do so.
Governments translate their agenda into action via the civil service,
and in the case of extremist regimes, the civil service must first be
brought on-side. That doesn't happen in two months.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:36 EDT 2009
Article: 1998246 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:54:26 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:Z9Etl.39677$9j5.14062@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
>> > No, only a very few.  Most stayed, because they were unable to bugger
>> > off and were slaughtered by your Nazi heroes.
>> 
>> Horseshit. How many were left in Germany at war's commencement, old feller?
>
>About half of the roughly 650,000 Jews who had been living in Germany when
>Hitler came to power on January 30, 1933 succeeded in leaving that
>country. Most, however, settled in neighboring countries, such as France,
>the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, Denmark, Czechoslovakia(!), and
>Austria(!!). Some 300 of them even found refuge in Finland. All of the
>countries listed above wound up being partially or totally absorbed by
>Germany, occupied by Germany, or militarily allied with Germany. Thus,
>dutifully leaving Germany before the war was not sufficient to avoid the
>Holocaust.

Actually Eugene, there were only about 200,000 Jews still resident in
Germany in January of 1939. The high point was not 650,000 but 100,000
fewer than your figure.

>
>A relatively small number of the Jews who were in Germany when WW II
>started fell victims to the Holocaust, the number given being usually in
>the range of 40,000 of the approximately 350,000 Jews still in Germany
>proper in September 1939. The figure is tricky to pin down more precisely,
>since tens of thousands of Jews had emigrated from Germany to Austria and
>Czechoslovakia between 1933 and 1939, but all of Austria and part of
>Czechoslovakia were absorbed into Germany in 1938, thus effectively
>neutralizing the emigration that those German Jews who had settled in the
>two countries had undergone.
>
>In any case, despite the fact that roughly half of the Jews who had been
>in Germany when Hitler and the Nazis came to power emigrated, extremely
>few of them succeeded in emigrating to a place as distant as Palestine,
>South Africa, China, Japan, Australia, or the Americas. To do so would
>have required extraordinary contacts, resources, and luck, since the Nazis
>confiscated virtually all of the property and assets of Jewish emigrants,
>sending them out ito the world virtually penniless with little more than
>the clothes they were wearing. The cost of travel and the vetting process
>for visas would have excluded all but those with extraordinary connections
>and resources from intercontinental travel. Palestine, immigration to
>which was regulated by an agreement reached between Nazi Germany and the
>British autorities, was seemingly the one exception, but the British
>favored young, healthy Jews willing to till the soil and the immigration
>quota was kept low for political reasons. Resistance to Jewish immigration
>from Germany to Palestine came from both within Palestine as well as from
>within German anti-Zionist Jewish circles. The Arab population in
>Palestine was increasingly concerned about its position as the number of
>Jewish immigrants increased, while anti-Zionist Jewish circles in Germany
>regarded giving in to Nazi pressure to rid Germany of Jews as morally
>indefensible. A worsening of the British-German relations upon which an
>ordered flow of Jews from Germany to Palestine depended during the 1930s
>eventually cut the flow off altogether. The increasing perception that
>Germany was a pariah nation, this becoming the widely held opinion after
>the nation-wide pogrom of November 9-10, 1938, the Night of Broken Glass,
>had the consequence that most countries refused to accept any more German
>Jews, while many of those Jews in Germany who, up until then, had been
>willing to give the Nazis the benefit of the doubt decided that it was
>imperative that they leave as soon as possible. This dilemma is aptly
>symbolized by the plight of the 936 mostly Jewish refugees on the SS St.
>Louis in May, 1939 in their effort to reach Cuba or the United States. All
>wanted to leave Germany, but none of the countries that they sought to
>enter would accept them. The ship wound up returning to Europe, and with
>the exception of the 288 refugees accepted by the UK, all wound up,
>despite their efforts to emigrate to a new continent, in countries
>occupied by or allied with Germany
>(http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?ModuleId=10005267).
>
>Most of the Jews who left Germany wound up settling in culturally familiar
>neighboring countries, hoping that Nazis would either disappear or evolve
>into something more tolerant. One of the reasons that the Holocaust
>continues to be such a controversial subject is that Germany went out of
>its way to gain access to territory that it had no legal right to occupy
>or ethnically cleanse in order to hunt down Jews, both those who had
>dutifully heeded the words of the Nazi government and left Germany as well
>as those who had nothing whatsoever to do with Germany but found
>themselves, like several thousand members of the Roman Catholic clergy and
>orders in Hungary, defined as Jews by race and/or ancestry according to
>Nazi doctrines and treated accordingly.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:36 EDT 2009
Article: 1998247 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:43:06 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1103091140310001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>> > In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>> >> news:holman-1103091054260001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> >
>> > 
>> >>
>> >> Such a Holocaust(tm) already. The Nazis couldn't even rid Germany of 
>> >> theme.
>> >
>> > They had other things to do. Like fight an all-fronts war. You really
>> > ought to review your history before making such a fool of yourself.
>> 
>> But, but, but, but - the yids would have use believe that the ONLY reason 
>> for war was the Germans wanted to off all the yids of Europe.
>
>What nonsense!
>
>> YOU need to review history, sunschein.
>
>Most historians of WW II, whether Jews or not, agree that it was a
>continuation of and attempted payback for WW I. Germany thought that it
>had had victory in WW I snatched from its clutches by underhanded means,
>suffered humiliating and unacceptable terrtortial losses, and been saddled
>with onerous reparations. WW II was an attempt to undo the damage and
>restore Germany to what it thought was its rightful place as the premier
>European power. 

It still is the principal European power. Not that much has changed
since 1900. The two world wars failed to destroy Germany, the same as
the French-managed Thirty Years War failed to destroy Germany.

>
>This is not to say that the Jews were not an issue. Hitler's rhetoric
>claimed that the Jews were the ultimate cause of Germany's WW I defeat
>because they had convinced the US to enter the war at a crucial phase,
>injecting fresh blood into a conflict whose opponents had become
>war-weary. They were also blamed for war profiteering, the Treaty of
>Versailles, the social unrest and attempted communist takeovers in Germany
>immediately after the war, the Weimar Constitution, the hyperinflation of
>1923 and the subsequent collapse of the mark with the loss of most
>people's life savings, a disproportionately high representation in modern
>urban professions such as medicine, dentistry, law, financing, and
>education, domination and corruption of entertainment and the arts with
>pornography, sentimentality, and modernism. Hitler also blamed the Jews
>for capitalism, communism, and Christianity, the latter being a wily
>Jewish scam that encouraged Aryans to worship a Jewish god and a
>dysfunctional Jewish faily with a fatherless child and abandon the
>traditional Aryan values of ruthlessness, tenfold revenge, and maximum
>exploitation of the weak for compassion, forgiveness, and mercy.
>Paradoxically, Hitler viewed the USSR, Germany's most important trading
>partner during the late 1930s, as a Jewish vehicle for the racial and
>cultural undermining of the West.
>
>Hitler certainly had it in for the Jews. But nobody familiar with the
>events that led up to the outbreak of WW II, present company excepted, of
>course, would be so simpleminded as to claim that the reason for the war
>was to kill all the Jews in Europe. Restoration of German's great power
>status, revenge for the humiliation and territorial defeats suffered
>consequernt to WW I, and the effort to contain or even destroy Soviet
>communism were the primary reasons, even if Nazi race war propaganda
>taught that if the Jews were not killed first they would kill off their
>Aryan racial enemies in an Armageddon-like racial struggle for survival,
>der Überlebungskampf der arischen Rasse.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1998248 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Majdanek - Germar Rudolf
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:09:27 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 3/10/2009 8:35 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>> news:catamont-F5C3FC.06553710032009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>> In article ,
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:catamont-AD8FE7.23155807032009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>>>> In article ,
>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:vOFsl.25183$UQ6.21710@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> On 3/6/2009 10:27 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:mpp3r41sienmqjdesbclgvshrqkvt44lpr@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:03:13 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "B. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:2nZrl.16662$UQ6.4780@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2009 10:42 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "z"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:1c19fef3-c0ab-4b53-8260-66086c1de61d@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.c
>>>>>>>>>>>> om.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Mar 3, 7:00 pm, "B. Cramer" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why did you snip the content, deceitful little jew cunt?
>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is a complete fraud.
>>>>>>>>>> No it is not. You are a lying old turd.
>>>>>>>>> Rudolf is a complete fraud, right down to his names.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/nym.shtml
>>>>>>>> Idiot. He changed his names to try to keep ahead of the yids. He 
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>  very well aware they were bent on destroying him.
>>>>>>> He changed his name a lot so he could use one name as a scholarly
>>>>>>> source
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> support the writing of another name.  He was a complete fraud.
>>>>>> Hahahahahahahahaha.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why does it surprise me to see you create "facts" about this to 
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> nonsense. I guess it's part of the contractual obligations, huh?
>>>>>
>>>>> Then perhaps you will explain how taking the name of ANOTHER moronic
>>>>> denier was going to keep him from being "destroyed" by the yids?
>>>> No I can't. Unlike judges and jew lawyers, I'm unable to read people's
>>>> minds.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever Rudolf did wasn't effective, given he's now languishing in a 
>>>> German
>>>> gaol.
>>>>
>>> Very true. Rudolph broke the law, and went to jail.
>> 
>> He broke an unjust law. A law that protects a myth.
>
>Pretty stupid, wasn't he?

Not at all, since it is our civic duty to break unjust laws and
eventually sweep them away.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1998249 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Auschwitz Liars have made fools of themselves, and will continue to do so.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:50:27 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:fhEtl.33822$rp7.21020@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 3/10/2009 2:36 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:Iojtl.29778$UQ6.5406@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> On 3/9/2009 4:54 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:CxZsl.31398$9j5.30890@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> On 3/7/2009 9:42 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:3%Fsl.27718$PS5.12572@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2009 10:42 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:r7q3r49vgbsgpgv79dcpls1ovddndspqqa@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:03:48 -0800 (PST), in 
>>>>>>>>>> <2f7e39db-5d82-4be9-9e5b-180904ed1389@x13g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>  Warhol  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 8:20 pm, RJ11  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> B. Cramer  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Deal with the facts, doper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/image...http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/image...http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrd...http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/n...http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIFhttp://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/b...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mass graves found at Nazi camp Researchers have discovered
>>>>>>>>>>>> seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi death camp in
>>>>>>>>>>>> north-eastern Poland.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The research team, which began its government-sponsored
>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation in the summer, said the graves -- the largest
>>>>>>>>>>>> of which is about half the size of a football pitch --
>>>>>>>>>>>> contain charred remains.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ.
>>>>>>>>>>> The death camps Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec
>>>>>>>>>> [Rubbish deleted.]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/operation-reinhard/
>>>>>>>>> Wow!  Using your own reference site as reference for your words,
>>>>>>>>> old feller.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Says the man incapable of even discussing the article, let alone 
>>>>>>>> disproving a single word in it
>>>>>>> Huh?  I've suggested you watch a particular documentary which puts
>>>>>>> paid to most of your Reinhard camps nonsense.
>>>>>> So you can't do it.  Why didn't you just say so?
>>>>> Why are you flapping around and floundering? Why are you being stupid?
>>>> So you can't do it.  Fine.  Dismissed.
>>>
>>> Still flapping. Still floundering. You're pathetic, old feller. Very, 
>>> very pathetic.
>>
>> I said, "dismissed".
>
>Who are you to give orders, old feller?
>
>You're just an old flapper.

Poor Gord is getting practice trying to command the ocean waves to
stop crashing onto the shore.

>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1998395 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:27:00 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <6e7gr4l9lo12sjla8pppv931kvccd2j4fg@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> Eugene, no government anywhere does very much during its first two
>> months in office because it doesn not have the means to do so.
>
>Hitler's government was the exception that proves the rule. Within two
>months of coming into office, it had changed Germany from a functioning if
>flawed parliamentary democracy to a one-party dictatorship. He had
>elevated virulent anti-Semitism from the marginal realm of street thuggery
>and political fanaticism to a central element of state policy. This is the
>reason that a world Jewish organization was reported to have called for
>what was described in the media as an international boycott of Germany,
>exaggeratedly and sensationally reported in some newspapers, as  "Judea's
>declaration of war on Germany".  In actual fact, no such boycott was ever
>declared, much less implemented, nor did the "Jewish Board of Deputies",
>an organization representing the interests of British Jews and supposedly
>behind this "declaration", have the authority or resources to speak for
>all Jews or declare war or boycotts on any state. For details, see
>http://www.h-ref.de/feindbilder/juedische-kriegserklaerungen/daily-express.php.
>
>> Governments translate their agenda into action via the civil service,
>> and in the case of extremist regimes, the civil service must first be
>> brought on-side. That doesn't happen in two months.
>
>Nazi Germany was the exception. The Enabling Act (Ermächtigungsgesetz),
>the political call for which was a consequence of the February 27th fire
>at the Reichstag, was finally passed on March 23, 1933, after Hitler and
>his government had been in power for 52 days, completely changed the
>manner in which Germany was governed. It elevated Hitler from cancellor to
>Führer, allowing him to enact laws, even laws clearly in violation of the
>German constitution, by decree rather than subject proposals for them to
>parliamentary consent or control. For details, see e.g.

Wake up, Eugene. When Trudeau had the War Measures Act passed in 1972,
the government of Canada had the same powers as did Hitler after the
passing of the Enabling Act. Trudeau was entitled to govern by
proclamation, although the actual implementation was limited to
Quebec. All the parties in the Reichstag voted FOR the legislation,
except for the Social Democrats and the Communists, because they
believed that Germany was in the throes of an apprehended insurrection
and that emergency powers were needed. Up until the point, Hitler had
no dicatatorial powers.

>http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob60.html.
>
>Summa summarum. Anyione familiar with the first two months of Hitler's
>government knows that fudamental and irreversible changes were made then
>in the manner in which the country was governed. A multiparty democracy
>was replaced by a one-party dictatorship that ruled by decree, had
>declared all other parties to be illegal, and passed legislation to ensure
>that it could not be removed from office. It is no wonder that Jewish
>organizations brought the attention of the world to these developments,
>which would obviously affect the Jews of Germany more than any other group
>in the country, and called for urgent international measures to constrain
>Hitlerite Germany immediately after its consolidation as an instrument for
>implementing the Hitler's agenda, expressed in the most general terms to
>journalist Josef Hell as early as 1922:
>
>"If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my
>first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have
>gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the
>Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be
>hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink.
>They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they
>are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until
>the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be
>followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!"
>(quoted in John Toland, Adolf Hitler. London: Book Club Associates, 1977,
>p.116) Source:http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm).
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:38 EDT 2009
Article: 1998397 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo
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On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:25:48 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1203091213090001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> > In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>> >> news:holman-1103091614150001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> > 
>> >
>> >> What death camps?
>> >
>> > The ones erected in Poland for the sole purpose of implementing the Final
>> > Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe discretely and with industrial
>> > efficiency.
>> 
>> Ah!  Those old things? The "death camps" none of you clods has ever been 
>> able to prove existed.
>> 
>> Those "death camps" associated with the "final solution" you clods have 
>> never been able to prove existed.
>
>Given that hundreds of people have been tried and sentenced for the work
>that they carried ut at these death factories, their existence has been
>demonstrate to the extent that neither the perpetrators nor the survivors
>ever challenged their existence in court.

Even larger numbers of people have been convicted of witchcraft in the
past, but that fact hardly establishes the existence of witches.

> 
>> > Specifically Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Trebinka. The ones
>> > that have been the subjects of numerous trials leadig to convictions since
>> > the 1940s.
>> 
>> Sure have. With all the "evidence" for the yids' side taken on judicial 
>> notice.
>
>The concept of "judicial notice" isirrelevant when talking about the
>trials held in the German Federal Republic. A facility planned, designed,
>constructed, maintained, staffed, administered, and supplied by one state
>bureaucracy, the RSHA, and provided with victims by another, the *Deutsche
>Reichsbahn*, while contributing a profit to yet a third one, the
>*Reichsbank*,  is going to leave a colossal paper trail, particularly
>considering the fact that all four of the *Aktion Reinhard* camps
>"processed" several hundred thousands of people. The German government,
>which has been the most vigorous entity to try the people who ran these
>facilities, has the archival evidence providing detailed information about
>the day-to-day operations of these places.
>
>> > One of them, Sobibor, is particularly well known due to the
>> > massive and well docuented prisoner-led revolt that took place there on
>> > October 14, 1943.
>
>> Which in now way proves it was a "death camp."
>
>The revolt allowed hundreds of people to escape, several of whom were
>fortunate enough to survive the war. Lieutenant Aleksander Pechersy
>(http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/pechersky.html), who
>planned and led the successful revolt at Sobibor, was in a position to
>know what the camp was and what was going on there. He survived the war
>and testified at several Sobibor-related trials. So did Toivi Blatt
>(http://www.sobibor.info/), who wrote a book and served as a consultant
>for a film about the camp and the revolt .
>
>The existence of the Sobibor death camp and the historicity of the massive
>and unprecedented revolt there that left its SS staff and most of the
>Ukrainian guards there dead, and allowed more than five hundred people to
>escape, is not a matter of "judicial notice". For more information, see
>http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/aa042699.htm.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:38 EDT 2009
Article: 1998398 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Majdanek - Germar Rudolf
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:40:36 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:qtSdnX1a_vFb4yXUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:5v7gr4hqosi7sfvupdrndjrfemrq12f393@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:09:27 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 3/10/2009 8:35 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:catamont-F5C3FC.06553710032009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:catamont-AD8FE7.23155807032009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:vOFsl.25183$UQ6.21710@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2009 10:27 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:mpp3r41sienmqjdesbclgvshrqkvt44lpr@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:03:13 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> , "B. Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:2nZrl.16662$UQ6.4780@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2009 10:42 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "z"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:1c19fef3-c0ab-4b53-8260-66086c1de61d@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Mar 3, 7:00 pm, "B. Cramer" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why did you snip the content, deceitful little jew cunt?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it is a complete fraud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No it is not. You are a lying old turd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rudolf is a complete fraud, right down to his names.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/nym.shtml
>>>>>>>>>>> Idiot. He changed his names to try to keep ahead of the yids. He
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>  very well aware they were bent on destroying him.
>>>>>>>>>> He changed his name a lot so he could use one name as a scholarly
>>>>>>>>>> source
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> support the writing of another name.  He was a complete fraud.
>>>>>>>>> Hahahahahahahahaha.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why does it surprise me to see you create "facts" about this to
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> nonsense. I guess it's part of the contractual obligations, huh?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then perhaps you will explain how taking the name of ANOTHER moronic
>>>>>>>> denier was going to keep him from being "destroyed" by the yids?
>>>>>>> No I can't. Unlike judges and jew lawyers, I'm unable to read 
>>>>>>> people's
>>>>>>> minds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whatever Rudolf did wasn't effective, given he's now languishing in a
>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>> gaol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very true. Rudolph broke the law, and went to jail.
>>>>>
>>>>> He broke an unjust law. A law that protects a myth.
>>>>
>>>>Pretty stupid, wasn't he?
>>>
>>> Not at all, since it is our civic duty to break unjust laws and
>>> eventually sweep them away.
>>
>> That would be more convincing if Rudolph hadn't fled the few months 
>> penalty, and then promptly demonstrated that he didn't have any regard for 
>> the laws of the US, either.
>
>
>What has this to do with the fact he was yarded because the yids found him 
>troublesome, keenan?
>
>Why do you continuously move the goal posts, you despicable cunt?

She has no choice, since otherwise she has no argument.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1998895 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:37:25 +0100, ZuLu  wrote:

>Eugene Holman escribió:
>> In article <49b94331@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu  wrote:
>> 
>>> Kenneth McVay OBC escribió:
>>>> In article <4rStl.17476$PH1.3288@edtnps82>,
>>>> Truthseeker  wrote:
>>>>> Who will they attack or victimize next to keep the holosaga alive.
>> All they 
>>>>> have to do is finger someone and start their propaganda machine.
>>>> If by "they" you mean the Government of Germany, "they" will arrest and
>>>> charge anyone the evidence says is a mass murderer.
>>> Evidences or, as usual, convenient "eyewitnesses testimonies"?
>>>
>>> It seems that to find that kind of "eyewitnesses" who are ready to swear
>> anything 
>>> under oath is not a big issue to the Wiesenthal Center.
>>>
>>> An exemplary case where a poor innocent man can have his life ruined by
>>> hate and false testimonies.
>> 
>> Not even Demjanjuk has argued that he is "a poor innocent man". He has
>> never had difficulty admitting that he was a soldiuer in the Red Army,
>> became a POW, and, in German captivity, volunteered to work as a so-called
>> Ukrainian guard at concentration camps.
>> 
>> His defense has always been based on the premise that the only way that he
>> could have survived would have been to dutifully carry out the orders
>> given to him. The degree to which carrying out obviously criminal orders
>> as the only alternative to being killed has been a controversial issue
>> ever since the first war crimes trials. Given Demjanjuk's age and what he
>> has already been through, I regard harassing him any longer as
>> unnecessary. Nevertheless, he påovides us with one of the last
>> opportunities to see the kind of moral dilemmas men of his generation were
>> forced to live with.
>> 
>> I see no need to try and sentence him yet again. But I do think he could
>> do us all a favor by testifying in detail about where he was and what he
>> was forced to do.
>> 
>> 
>
>So, he admitted to have been a guard in a concentration camp, so, what more?
>
>Will Germany put in trial all former US guards at Eisenhower' camps also?
>
>Will all US people who worked at Guantanamo be brought to an International Court?

Americans can do whatever they wish. They are exempt from
international law and from war crimes provisions. They are truly
exceptional, and only ordinary mortals need to be concerned about such
details as laws and fundamental decency.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1998903 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Only racists who hate Jews claim the Nazis did not gas Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:58:33 -0400, Don  wrote:

>ZuLu wrote
>> See "GAS CHAMBERS WHICH SECRET ??? BWAAAAAH !!!!!" by zulu.
>> 
>
>Why do you like Hitler? 

Have you stopped molesting your children?



>  Is it because he was a "winner"?
>
>My father, my mother and all of my uncles, cousins fought him.   And when they 
>were 30.  Many of their friends from high school were already dead because 
>they fought Hitler.
>
>What have you done for Hitler lately?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1998904 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Only racists who hate Jews claim the Nazis did not gas Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <20eb6f94-704e-4385-a3e4-406fc4d29cbc@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <49baff7d@news.x-privat.org>    
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On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:07:48 -0400, Don  wrote:

>TallHenry wrote
>>        If someone spends his life knowingly telling lies in
>> order to make Hitler appear better,  he must be doing it because
>> he likes Hitler.
>> 
>
>I get a blast from guys like Neil Harrington who get their backs up when 
>people bad mouth Hitler!


You seem to be totally irrational. Nobody except you has even
mentioned Hitler.

>
>I suppose that it's not fashionable in his circle of friends.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:40 EDT 2009
Article: 1998906 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Only racists who hate Jews claim the Nazis did not gas Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <2oaor4pbp9d3adqc1i0tflgnsqcmm98r0k@4ax.com>
References: <20eb6f94-704e-4385-a3e4-406fc4d29cbc@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>  <49baff7d@news.x-privat.org>     <27cmr4ps4ea8t4qmspad0oflq9fqd81vnh@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:22:54 -0700, Greg Carr 
wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:09:49 -0400, Scott Bradshit
> wrote:
>
>>B.H. Cramer wrote
>>> 
>>> They welcome  zionazis. Strange, innit?
>>> 
>>> 
>>
>>Look at the little Zhid whine.
>>
>>Heil Hitler!
>>
>>
>>Why can't you be white like Hitler?
>
>Hitler wasn't even German and fathered no children for the Reichland.
>Oddly enough neither did any of his siblings.

Austria was a part of Germany (Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher
Nation) since the 9th century. There is no fundamental difference
between Austrians and Germans. Ethnically, the Austrians are
Bavarians, the area from which they settled what is today Austria.
Incidentally, illiterate buffoon, the term Reich has nothing to do
with Nazis or the period from 1933 to 1945. It has been in use since
AD 768 to refer to Germany.




>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>The following is my sig file updated as of 14th of Kislev, 5769:
>
>
>We are awaiting the return of our JHVH in the flesh or his Son. His Son Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, was resurrected and walked the earth for awhile then ascended unto Heaven. We await the Third Coming not the Second.
>
>Scottish Quaker Robert Barclay-"The weighty Truths of God were neglected, and, as it were, went into Desuetude. ...
>
>Who will be the last Coalition soldier to be maimed in Iraq?
>
>Canadian troops out of Afghanistan and into Darfur.http://www.amnesty.ca/instantkarma/petition.php
>
>Good luck to anyone trying to learn Hebrew. I am looking for a Hebrew-Gregorian calendar in both Hebrew and English lettering.
>
>I am looking for my missing automobile. Left in the care of Low's Tire (Firestone) on King George Hwy which has since gone out of business. A man who claimed to be a tow truck driver named Jerry (sounded Black) called me and said he had it
>but when I called him back he denied it. JVD-298 "89 Plymouth Reliant white with red interior. Devellis in lettering on the rear trunk. Contact me by email or the GRC if you are one of those ppl. Am looking for the address of Dave Reynolds and any info about him. He used to run Low's Tires and since he refuses to answer his email lowstire@telus.net I can only assume he is the person who stole my vehicle and the contents in it. I have talked to the new owners and they claim to know nothing.
>3P3BK41D9KT921716 is the vin number. Dave Reynolds still has a valid email lowstire@telus.net but refuses to return my inquiries.Any info about this thief is appreciated.
>
>I am also looking for various books and CD's that I have discovered missing. All are marked Greg Carr on the inside cover or somewhere in the CD booklet. $5 reward for each CD and for each book. Will pay $200 for info regarding how they disappeared because I honestly don't know.
>
>u8m854p98su072q3l8chiss3t0lcr0­5fo0@4ax.com is a post of mine about the liar and police agent Gordon Sauck. It has been censored by Google Groups.
>
>Jonathon Gregory and Craig Wong are thieves and liars and smokers.They live at 344 E.Hastings St. They call and lie to Vancouver Police and the Landlord-Tenancy Branch.
>
>Mike Poirier is HA and works at DPS at 817 Denman St. This company is such a bunch of liars that besides stealing from ppl they claim to be 100% Cdn owned on their signs when in fact they are owned by a rich man in Seattle. You anti-semitic types might like to know the man is a Jew. Poirier is a liar and perjurer and he attacks ppl for no reason and then calls Vancouver Police if he loses. 
>
>DPS 817 Denman St
>V6G 2L7 Canada
>(604) 681-8797 
>(604) 684-0329 Fax
>vanbc@diamondparking.com
>
>Mailing Address 
>P.O. Box 3055
>Vancouver, BC V6B 3X5 Canada
>Canada
>
>Mike Poirier – Regional Vice President of Operations
>mike.poirier@diamondparking.com
>
>He lives in Burnaby. Caucasian 5"8 in platform shoes. 
>
>Free IQ Test
Free-IQTest.net - Free IQ Test > > >This is just a line I typed to see if you would read it :-) From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:40 EDT 2009 Article: 1999199 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <_OWdnbuJnLLigCHUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:39:20 -0400 Bytes: 4460 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999199 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:17:10 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Eugene Holman" wrote in message >news:holman-1503091237530001@ke-hupnet52-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> In article , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>> news:holman-1503090938450001@ke-hupnet52-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>> > >>> > And what, pray tell, is difficult accepting Karl Frenzel's and Hans >>> > Münch's independent statements that during WW II while working at >>> > Sobibor >>> > and Auschwitz-Birkenau, respectively, they were involved in the >>> > implementation of a state-sponsored program, the objective of which was >>> > the extermination of the Jews of Europe, with priority given to women >>> > with >>> > children, children, and elderly people unable to contribute to the >>> > German >>> > war effort, this including capturing, killing, and disposing of the >>> > bodies >>> > of even more Jews? >>> >>> Because it's b'ollocks. None of this shit has ever been proved. >> >> ...to your impossibly high and selectively applied standards. It was >> certainly proved to such a high standard that SS-Oberscharfuhrer Karl >> Frenzel sat sixteen years for it and never claimed that he had been >> imprisoned on trumped up charges. > >Had he whined he would have been hanged. That is no doubt what he feared. The allies had instituted a veritable reign of terror in postwar Germany. > > >> >>> > Source: >>> > >> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/muench-hans/swedish-television-interview.html >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ST: What was the ideology? >>> > >>> > M: Simply National Socialism, as expounded by [Alfred] Rosenberg. The >>> > Germanic race was the future of the world and a guarantee against >>> > corruption and mismanagement and for keeping our Europe pure. The root >>> > cause of every evil in culture, of every degeneracy was the Jews, which >>> > is >>> > clear from the fact that the Jews weren't tolerated already in the >>> > Middle >>> > Ages. There must have been good reasons to put them into ghettos. There >>> > were constant pogroms, not only in Germany, in the whole of Europe. >>> > That >>> > is because the Jewish race is a destructive factor. There is no >>> > development, no peace, nothing worth living for when the Jews have a >>> > finger in the pie. >>> > >>> > ST: Therefore they must be exterminated? >>> > >>> > M: Because it hasn't succeeded so far in spite of all the severe >>> > measures, >>> > but they continually take hold of decisive posts in the economy, in the >>> > state, in cultural life. It has to be stopped. That can be done only by >>> > total physical extermination. >>> >>> Blah blah blah blah. All waffle, yougenie. >> >> Not waffle, Benjie, but meat and potatoes. > >Nope. Meat and potatoes is a man thing, yougenie. You don't qualify. > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:41 EDT 2009 Article: 1999200 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <71q979FlvhssU1@mid.individual.net> <4rStl.17476$PH1.3288@edtnps82> <49b94331@news.x-privat.org> <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:44:22 -0400 Bytes: 4348 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999200 On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >On Mar 14, 5:59 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:37:25 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >> >Eugene Holman escribió: >> >> In article <49b94...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu wrote: >> >> >>> Kenneth McVay OBC escribió: >> >>>> In article <4rStl.17476$PH1.3288@edtnps82>, >> >>>> Truthseeker wrote: >> >>>>> Who will they attack or victimize next to keep the holosaga alive. >> >> All they >> >>>>> have to do is finger someone and start their propaganda machine. >> >>>> If by "they" you mean the Government of Germany, "they" will arrest and >> >>>> charge anyone the evidence says is a mass murderer. >> >>> Evidences or, as usual, convenient "eyewitnesses testimonies"? >> >> >>> It seems that to find that kind of "eyewitnesses" who are ready to swear >> >> anything >> >>> under oath is not a big issue to the Wiesenthal Center. >> >> >>> An exemplary case where a poor innocent man can have his life ruined by >> >>> hate and false testimonies. >> >> >> Not even Demjanjuk has argued that he is "a poor innocent man". He has >> >> never had difficulty admitting that he was a soldiuer in the Red Army, >> >> became a POW, and, in German captivity, volunteered to work as a so-called >> >> Ukrainian guard at concentration camps. >> >> >> His defense has always been based on the premise that the only way that he >> >> could have survived would have been to dutifully carry out the orders >> >> given to him. The degree to which carrying out obviously criminal orders >> >> as the only alternative to being killed has been a controversial issue >> >> ever since the first war crimes trials. Given Demjanjuk's age and what he >> >> has already been through, I regard harassing him any longer as >> >> unnecessary. Nevertheless, he påovides us with one of the last >> >> opportunities to see the kind of moral dilemmas men of his generation were >> >> forced to live with. >> >> >> I see no need to try and sentence him yet again. But I do think he could >> >> do us all a favor by testifying in detail about where he was and what he >> >> was forced to do. >> >> >> >> >> >So, he admitted to have been a guard in a concentration camp, so, what more? >> >> >Will Germany put in trial all former US guards at Eisenhower' camps also? >> >> >Will all US people who worked at Guantanamo be brought to an International Court? >> >> Americans can do whatever they wish. They are exempt from >> international law and from war crimes provisions. They are truly >> exceptional, and only ordinary mortals need to be concerned about such >> details as laws and fundamental decency. > >How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >charged with? That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of brainwashed Americans. Had Germans done such a thing, then there would have been no end to the outcry. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:41 EDT 2009 Article: 1999201 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Only racists who hate Jews claim the Nazis did not gas Jews Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <20eb6f94-704e-4385-a3e4-406fc4d29cbc@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <49baff7d@news.x-privat.org> <49bc2906$1@news.x-privat.org> <49bd274e$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 14 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:48:13 -0400 Bytes: 1624 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999201 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:05:26 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >RJ11 escribió: >> In article <49bc2906$1@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu wrote: >> >>> My family fought Hitler in the Resistance, moron, >> >> Prove it, nazi turd. >> > >The nazi is YOU there, and an IDIOT ONE, which is even worst. RJ11 seldom has anything useful to say. He is best put on a filter so that his nonsense stops cluttering your screen. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:41 EDT 2009 Article: 1999204 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <7248jgFnvovhU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:54:29 -0400 Bytes: 2585 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999204 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:15:03 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:7248jgFnvovhU1@mid.individual.net... >> >> "RJ11" schreef in bericht >> news:gpiq1m$ao7$1@pcls6.std.com... >>> >>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg >>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg >>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg >>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg >>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF >>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg >>> >>> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm >>> >>> Mass graves found at Nazi camp >>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi >>> death camp in north-eastern Poland. >>> >>> The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation >>> in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half >>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains. >>> >>> >>> >>> RJ. >> >> get a life rj. > >RJ belongs in your killfile. That's where I have him and believe me, it >greatly reduces the amount of worthless trash cluttering up the newsgroup. > RJ11 does indeed represent a huge amount of clutter on the computer screen. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:42 EDT 2009 Article: 1999206 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <5bcrr4h4q0r4jj5gi0935c5rj3dfpaqa8s@4ax.com> References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <7248jgFnvovhU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:56:40 -0400 Bytes: 2714 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999206 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:23:57 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article , >Neil Harrington wrote: > >> RJ belongs in your killfile. That's where I have him and believe me, it >> greatly reduces the amount of worthless trash cluttering up the newsgroup. > >Why do you consider physical evidence to the Holocaust "worthless trash"? > >Here is his post again. Can you deal with it? Looking for truth at Nizkor is rather like looking for a fair, factual appraisal of Palestinians on a website organized by A. Sharon. Nizkor is a partisan propaganda site where truth is seldom to be found. > >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg >http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm > > Mass graves found at Nazi camp >Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi >death camp in north-eastern Poland. > > The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation >in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half >the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains. > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:42 EDT 2009 Article: 1999210 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <7248jgFnvovhU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:59:47 -0400 Bytes: 2408 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999210 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:50 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >"m-weber" wrote in message >news:gpivhd$6od$1@pcls4.std.com... >> In article , >> Neil Harrington wrote: >> >>> RJ belongs in your killfile. That's where I have him and believe me, it >>> greatly reduces the amount of worthless trash cluttering up the >>> newsgroup. >> >> Why do you consider physical evidence to the Holocaust "worthless trash"? > >The only "physical evidence" for the mythology is the "gas chamber" at >Auschwitz which is admitted by their director to be a fake. All the rest is >just fairy tales. Not a single functional gas chamber or a single gassed >corpse has ever been found, despite the enormous efforts expended to >discover an example of either. The "six million murdered Jews" fable of >course has already been thoroughly debunked as a mathematical impossibility. > The fact that no gassed corpse has ever been found sounds suspiciously like the WW1 propaganda about the Belgian children whose hands were allegedly cut off by German soldiers. Not one of them was ever found either, in that case because the whole story was a British fable. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:43 EDT 2009 Article: 1999215 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:10:04 -0400 Bytes: 3376 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999215 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:54:35 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article , >Neil Harrington wrote: > >> "m-weber" wrote in message >> news:gpivhd$6od$1@pcls4.std.com... > >>> In article , >>> Neil Harrington wrote: > >>> Why do you consider physical evidence to the Holocaust "worthless trash"? > >> The only "physical evidence" for the mythology is the "gas chamber" > >What about the mass graves? > >> at Auschwitz which is admitted by their director to be a fake. > >Well, no, he never admitted that. Plus, there are cyanide >compounds in the walls of the gas chambers. > >> All the rest is just fairy tales. > >All the documents, all the testimonies -- "just fairy tales"? > >Why? > >> The "six million murdered Jews" fable of >> course has already been thoroughly debunked as a mathematical >> impossibility. > >What "mathematical impossibility"? Please elaborate. > >Don't you "revisionist" folks claim that "over a million" German >POWs died in Allied camps? Where is the physical evidence for >that, pray tell? The last is fairly simple, since the Wehrmacht was aware of how many of its members were alive on May 8, 1945 and how many were alive once control was returned to German authorities in 1949. There is a multiple-million person discrepancy. Some of it can be attributed to Soviet crimes, but much of the rest to the USA and France. The fate of German POWs has been extrensively treated by impartial writers such as the Canadian, James Bacques, who has no axe to grind, whereas his opponents tend to be hagiographers for D.W. Eisenhower in particular and the American war effort in general. Sources such as Nizkor I take with a grain of salt because it is obviously a partisan site dedicated to spreading anti-German hate-propaganda. It is interesting to note how inconsistent Americans rate the deaths of 380 people at Coventry to be a war crime but the deaths of more than 100,000 civilians at Hiroshima to be justified. It is a combination of American racism and their pompous, sanctimonious hypocrisy. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:43 EDT 2009 Article: 1999216 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <724nc0Fms8kaU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:11:59 -0400 Bytes: 1595 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999216 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:34:19 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article <724nc0Fms8kaU1@mid.individual.net>, >Heinrich wrote: > >> weber, a good advice for you: take a root beer and shut up > >Can we compromise? I'll take the root beer, but I will >not shut up. Is that acceptable to you? You can babble all you want, but you may shortly no longer have an audience. That is the wonderful thing about filters in most Usenet reading software. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:43 EDT 2009 Article: 1999220 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <724nc0Fms8kaU1@mid.individual.net> <724r94Fo1i5oU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:17:30 -0400 Bytes: 2149 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999220 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:23:14 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article <724r94Fo1i5oU1@mid.individual.net>, >Heinrich wrote: > >> "m-weber" schreef in bericht >> news:gpjamb$35s$1@pcls4.std.com... > >>> Can we compromise? I'll take the root beer, but I will >>> not shut up. Is that acceptable to you? > >> oke as long as you refrain from posting links which already >> have been posted by the clown rj > >Why? I don't understand the logic in this request. The logic lies in the avoidance of unnecessary and irritating clutter devoid of meaning. I know how to get to Nizkor and I need neither RJ11 nor you to show me the contents by posting links. I do not trust Nizkor as an historical source because it is simply too blatantly partisan and it is managed by somebody with no education in general and no training as either an historian or an archivist. McVay comes across to me as a pro-Zionist version of Julius Streicher or E. Ehrenburg of Stalinist infamy. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:44 EDT 2009 Article: 1999222 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <724r94Fo1i5oU1@mid.individual.net> <724s8oFo2u8sU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:19:04 -0400 Bytes: 1788 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999222 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:20:07 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article <724s8oFo2u8sU1@mid.individual.net>, >Heinrich wrote: > >> just do as you are requested. if you donot understand the logic this does >> not matter for as long as you obey orders. rj is a poor lonely son of a >> bitch who shos his frustration on every ocassion and most posterts in this >> ng are fed up with his stupid urls. shalom > >Can you provide an example of these URL's you're so afraid of? This >is downright fascinating. Nobody is "afraid" of them, but we have all seen the junk before and it just represents clutter that contributes nothing to the discussion. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:45 EDT 2009 Article: 1999224 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <7248jgFnvovhU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:22:28 -0400 Bytes: 2853 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999224 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:14:38 -0700 (PDT), drahcir wrote: >On Mar 15, 11:44 am, "Neil Harrington" wrote: >> "m-weber" wrote in message >> >> news:gpivhd$6od$1@pcls4.std.com... >> >> > In article , >> > Neil Harrington wrote: >> >> >> RJ belongs in your killfile. That's where I have him and believe me, it >> >> greatly reduces the amount of worthless trash cluttering up the >> >> newsgroup. >> >> > Why do you consider physical evidence to the Holocaust "worthless trash"? >> >> The only "physical evidence" for the mythology is the "gas chamber" at >> Auschwitz which is admitted by their director to be a fake. All the rest is >> just fairy tales. Not a single functional gas chamber or a single gassed >> corpse has ever been found, despite the enormous efforts expended to >> discover an example of either. The "six million murdered Jews" fable of >> course has already been thoroughly debunked as a mathematical impossibility. > >Everyone, even you, is entitled to be an idiot. No one cares what an >idiot like you does or says. Any idiot can say anything on usenet - >it's easy. Anyone living in a cave who actually needs proof that neil >is an idiot need only see here: LOL If you actually believe what you have written, then there is no logical reason for you to be here whining hysterically at Neil. Your hysteria and personal insults show that you actually believe that Neil might be too effective. >http://tinyurl.com/cspl8e > >It speaks for itself. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:45 EDT 2009 Article: 1999226 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 121 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:25:18 -0400 Bytes: 8707 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999226 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:24:30 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote: >On Mar 15, 12:19 pm, "Heinrich" wrote: >> Slowly ever so slowly, the Holocaust lie is beginning to crumble away. The >> Jews may gloat over the imprisonment of best-selling author and historian, >> David Irving for Holocaust Denial. Or their recent persecution of a Catholic >> Bishop who dared to question the Holocaust. The Jews demanded that the pope >> throw this Bishop out of the Church. (Talk about chutzpah.) The Jews keep >> using the heavy hand of the tyrant against their opponents, not believing >> that people will ever grow tired of political dissidents being prosecuted >> for thought crimes. Mr. Irving is an historical scholar and he KNOWS that >> the imprisonment of various great historical figures from St. Peter to Joan >> of Arc to Galileo has always failed to stop whatever the authorities were >> hoping to stop. These imprisonments often wake up people to governmental >> tyranny. >> >> Within another generation these horrible laws outlawing speech, that the >> Jews disapprove, will be quietly shelved in many European nations, and men >> may speak the truth about the events of World War Two without fear of >> prison. >> >> The independent researcher and web publisher Dr. Henry Makow has reported a >> story completely ignored by the mainstream media. It seems that long-time >> professional Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel is a fraud and an impostor, and >> his accuser is not some Revisionist but a genuine Auschwitz survivor. >> >> On his website Dr. Makow tells us: "In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, >> he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother, father >> as well as a younger and an elder brother.He, his elder brother and their >> father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform >> hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where the father >> died six months later. After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen >> and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were >> also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their >> protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and >> Abraham Wiesel brothers. In the following months, Miklos Gruner and Lazar >> Wiesel became good friends. Lazar Wiesel was 31 years old in 1944. Miklos >> never forgot the number Lazar was tattooed with by the Nazis: A-7713. In >> January 1945, as the Russian army was coming, the inmates were transferred >> to Buchenwald. During the three months this transfer took, partly by foot, >> partly by train, more than half of the inmates died and amongst them was >> Abraham, the elder brother of Lazar Wiesel. In April 8, 1945, the US army >> liberated Buchenwald. Miklos and Lazar were amongst the survivors of the >> camp. As Miklos had tuberculosis, he was sent in a Swiss clinic and >> therefore was separated from Lazar. After recovering, Miklos emigrated to >> Australia while his elder brother, who also survived the war, established >> himself in Sweden." >> >> Here's where the article gets interesting: "Years later, in 1986, Miklos was >> contacted in Australia by a Swedish journal and was invited to come in >> Sweden in order to meet an 'old friend' named Elie Wiesel. As Miklos >> answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel >> was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar >> Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713. Miklos still remembered that >> number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to >> meet his old friend Lazar and happily accepted the invitation to fly to >> Sweden in December 14, 1986. Miklos recalls: 'I was very happy at the idea >> of meeting Lazar but when I got out of the plane, I was stunned to see a man >> I didn`t recognize at all, who didn`t even speak Hungarian and who was >> speaking English in a strong French accent. so, our meeting was over in >> about ten minutes. As a goodbye gift, the man gave me a book titled Night of >> which he claimed to be the author. I accepted the book I didn`t know at that >> time but told everyone there that this man was not the person he pretended >> to be.' " >> >> You'd think this would get a mention or some probing questions of Wiesel by >> the Swedish journalists -unless they considered Mr. Wiesel a "sacred cow" >> whose proclamations about the Holocaust were always to be take seriously for >> fear of ending one's career as a journalist. >> >> The article continues "Miklos recalls that during this strange meeting, Elie >> Wiesel refused to show him the tattooed number on his arm, saying he didn`t >> want to exhibit his body. Miklos adds that Elie Wiesel showed his tattooed >> number afterward to an Israeli journalist who Miklos met and this journalist >> told Miklos that he didn`t have time to identify the number but was certain >> it wasn`t a tattoo. Miklos says: 'After that meeting with Elie Wiesel, I did >> research everywhere I could for twenty years and found out that the man >> calling himself Elie Wiesel has never been in a Nazi camp since he doesn`t >> figure on any official list of detainees.Elie Wiesel never wanted to meet me >> again. He became very successful; he takes 25 thousand dollars for a 45 >> minutes speech on the Holocaust. 'I have officially reported to the FBI that >> Elie Wiesel is an impostor but had no answer. I have also complained to the >> Swedish Royal Academy of Sciences with no result. The American and the >> Swedish media which I tried to contact were indifferent. I have received >> anonymous calls telling me I could be shot if I don`t shut up, but I am not >> afraid of death any more. I have deposited the whole dossier in four >> different countries and, if I died suddenly, they would be made public. The >> world must know that Elie Wiesel is an impostor and I am going to tell it, I >> am going to publish the truth in a book called The Story of a Stolen Nobel >> Prize Identity.' " >> >> Some day, there will be a tipping point. A straw that breaks the camel's >> back. One of these bizarre and fraudulent stories about false Holocaust >> memoirs, bogus "survivors" and their descendants raking in the cash, or some >> ridiculous Holocaust story that is simply too outrageous for belief, is >> going to suddenly "grow legs," possibly on the Internet which will trash the >> credibility of the Holocaust for all time. >> >> The story will "grow legs" despite anything the Jews can do to suppress it, >> and all of a sudden the entire world, with a collective gasp, will GET IT >> about the so-called "Holocaust." The whole world will realize how terribly >> and viciously and cynically we have been deceived for generations. The >> Holocaust will suddenly be seen as yet another Jewish swindle of gigantic >> proportions -much like the enormous financial swindle pulled off by the now >> famous Bernie Madoff. Perhaps the role of Jewish swindlers in the current >> financial collapse will make people more suspicious of Jews in general and >> lead to a re-evaluation of the Holocaust. >> __________________ >> . >> . > >David Irving is NOT a historion , this was prroved in a British >court . >mirjam Courts have NEVER "proven" anything, either now or over the last few centuries. Convictions of people for witchcraft do not constitute "proof" that witches actually exist anymore than Galileo's conviction proves that the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:45 EDT 2009 Article: 1999229 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <25err41e2mn8rd9ar9djfd9uo6e23lfafd@4ax.com> References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:30:11 -0400 Bytes: 1963 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999229 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:54:18 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: >mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote: > >> >> David Irving is NOT a historion , this was prroved in a British >> court . > >David Irving is one of the most famous of modern English historians, and has >an enormous body of published work which has been highly praised by other >eminent historians. I don't know how you think a court "proved" that a >historian isn't a historian, or even how any court could possibly do that. > Courts tend to be an Alice-in-wonderland environment where all manner of factors OTHER than truth can affect the outcome. We have numerous cases currently in Canada where people have been convicted of murder and where science later showed that the convictions were 100.0% unjust. Courts are very imperfect human institutions where money, influence, and politics can affect the outcomes. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:46 EDT 2009 Article: 1999232 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8lerr4177do9enf2651hi5sbi7rsfhbaeo@4ax.com> References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:35:25 -0400 Bytes: 2288 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999232 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:09:44 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >> In article <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com>, >> Neil Harrington wrote: >>> mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> David Irving is NOT a historion , this was prroved in a British >>>> court . >> >>> David Irving is one of the most famous of modern English historians, >>> and has an enormous body of published work which has been highly >>> praised by other eminent historians. I don't know how you think a >>> court "proved" that a historian isn't a historian, or even how any >>> court could possibly do that. >> >> In the libel trial wherein British faux historian >> David Irving attempted to censor an American historian, > >David Irving is a historian. Deborah Lipstadt is a Holocaust promoter. The >latter occupation should not be confused with the former. > McVay, the smear artist, is being hypocritical in the extreme when he whines about the alleged censorship attempts of others, when that is exactly his own modus operandi. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:46 EDT 2009 Article: 1999234 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:40:44 -0400 Bytes: 2031 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999234 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: >On Mar 16, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >> David Irving is a historian. Deborah Lipstadt is a Holocaust promoter. The >> latter occupation should not be confused with the former. > >David Irving is history. >He lied about the holocaust and about the history of the Second World >War. >He is a convicted criminal Being convicted by a kangaroo court for thought crimes is actually an honour rather than something of which to be ashamed. Most people just don't have the guts to allow themselves to be martyred. Nobody would allow themselves to be imprisoned for an idea that they themselves thought was false. A person could obviously be mistaken, but he was clearly not trying to deceive. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:46 EDT 2009 Article: 1999236 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why Hitler Was Right Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:42:32 -0400 Bytes: 1420 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999236 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:13:52 -0400, Mike Flannigan wrote: >I am a sadistical sexual psychopath whose dream is of meeting Hitler, putting >a gun to his head, forcing headphones on him and sodomizing him with my large, >juicy, uncircumsized cock while blasting Die Walküre. > > >Heil Hitler! LOL Well, I can certainly agree with your self-analysis as a psychopath. In Canada you could get help, but clearly not in the every-man-for-himself USA. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:47 EDT 2009 Article: 1999238 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Only racists who hate Jews claim the Nazis did not gas Jews ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS HOAX Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <20eb6f94-704e-4385-a3e4-406fc4d29cbc@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <49baff7d@news.x-privat.org> <49bd26ba$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:44:57 -0400 Bytes: 1745 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999238 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:16:42 -0400, Goober wrote: >ZuLu wrote >> ABOUT THE GAS CHAMBERS HOAX >> >> Which material proof of their existence? >> ANY. >> > >There's no proof of the lunar landings either because it was a big money >making scam by Jewish scientists. I hate people who bad mouth Hitler and >disparage his good name and reputation. > > >Heil Hitler! This seems to be another manifestation of the Mike Flannigan psychopath that deposited some feces on the newsgroup a few messages back. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:47 EDT 2009 Article: 1999239 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <1eerr457cagf2ice5p6akcqrn864b9m1pe@4ax.com> References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:46:57 -0400 Bytes: 3280 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999239 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:57:58 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article <-v-dnb6pbrktuSDUnZ2dnUVZ_uOWnZ2d@giganews.com>, >Neil Harrington wrote: > >> mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote: > >>> David Irving is NOT a historion , this was prroved in a British >>> court . > >> David Irving is one of the most famous of modern English historians, > >But he's most happy to state that he barely knows anything about >the Holocaust: The same thing could be said of most of his detractors. Much of what the detractors claim would not stand up to scientific scrutiny, so they seek to shield the story from anybody but partisan personnel whose findings were available before the investigation even started, something like the verdicts at Nuremberg that had been agreed to some months before at Yalta, long before the trials occurred. > > > All the following are statements Irving made during >the libel trial he initiated (and lost) against Lipstadt >and Penguin: > >http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day001.htm > > "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor >have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust." > > "I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but >I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an >expert on the Holocaust, my Lord." > > "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have >said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written >no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually >because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned >about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise >and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar." > >http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm: > > "Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton, >that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say >would be a figure without any value whatsoever." > > "Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka, >Belzec and Chelmno?" > > "A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert." From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:48 EDT 2009 Article: 1999349 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8mdsr411i0pd3q6s1lloslj28ob8hl51bq@4ax.com> References: <9Bivl.44327$UR4.13282@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:25:55 -0400 Bytes: 4029 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999349 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:12:48 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/12/2009 7:11 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: > >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> news:holman-1203091213090001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>> In article , "B.H. >>> Cramer" wrote: >>> >>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>> news:holman-1103091614150001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> What death camps? >>> The ones erected in Poland for the sole purpose of implementing the >>> Final Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe discretely and >>> with industrial efficiency. >> >> Ah! Those old things? The "death camps" none of you clods has ever >> been able to prove existed. > >Their existence has been proved. Your assertion does not constitute "proof". Obviously there is doubt, or this newsgroup wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be going around hysterically sliming and flaming anybody who asks questions or expresses any doubt. > >> Those "death camps" associated with the "final solution" you clods >> have never been able to prove existed. > >The Final Solution has been proved. > >>> Specifically Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Trebinka. The ones that >>> have been the subjects of numerous trials leadig to convictions >>> since the 1940s. >> >> Sure have. With all the "evidence" for the yids' side taken on >> judicial notice. > >Nope. You are just a walking parrot of denier canards, aren't you? > >>> One of them, Sobibor, is particularly well known due to the massive >>> and well docuented prisoner-led revolt that took place there on >>> October 14, 1943. >> >> Which in now way proves it was a "death camp." >> >>> Another, Belzec, has been the subject of recent archeological >>> reserach. Sobibor was in the news today: the German government is >>> continuing the trial against former Sobibor John Demjanjuk, >> >> Disgraceful, isn't it. > >Disgraceful he has gotten away with it so long. > >>> a former Ukrainian guard there (see below). Demjanjuk has never >>> challanged the existence of Sobibor. its functionality as a death >>> camp, >> >> I do beg your pardon. Just when did he admit it was a "death camp?" > >When he lied and said he didn't work there. He said the same about >Treblinka. It's funny how the people who worked in the camps are the >very ones who do *not* deny that they were death camps. It is only >third-string trash like you bunch who deny it. > >[...] From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:48 EDT 2009 Article: 1999353 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx01.iad.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!69.16.185.11.MISMATCH!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <71q979FlvhssU1@mid.individual.net> <4rStl.17476$PH1.3288@edtnps82> <49b94331@news.x-privat.org> <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:34:31 -0400 Bytes: 5037 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999353 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:05:38 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > > > > >> >How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> >charged with? >> >> That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of >> brainwashed Americans. > >There is the matter of relativity here. The Japanese stated conclusively >that they would never surrender. The US demonstrated that it had what at >that time was the ultimate weapon, and more than one of them, causing the >Japanese to rethink their options. They surrendered within a week. You are putting together a cause-effect link that is probably not there. Numerous American military types opposed the use of nuclear weapons as being totally unnecessary. Nothing excuses civilian atrocities. Everybody in Japan knew that the war was lost long before the use of the nuclear bombs. Indeed, the big fear of the Americans was that the Japanese would surrender before the bombs could be used. > >As far as I know, the crew of the 'Enola Gay' was not even given specific >information about what they were dropping. They were just following the >bits and pieces of the orders they had been issued, the overall results of >which were not clear from the orders issuedto each individual, in a >military situation in a war zone. The position of the crew of the Enola >Gay' was in no way comparable to what Karl Frenzel, third in command, was >doing at Sobibor: consigning all civilian deportees but those who were >young, healthy, and had skills deperately needed by the Germans, to the >gas chambers. > >More than a hundred thousand people in the two atomic bombings and >arguably another hundred thousand have died concsequent to them, but the >alternative would have been an invasion of Japan by the US and the USSR, >millions of deaths on both sides, the destruction of cities, >infrastructure, cultural monuments, and territorial losses for Japan far >greater than the Kurile Islands, lost to the Soviets, and Okinawa, >captured and occupied by the Americans. > >> Had Germans done such a thing, then there would have been no end to >> the outcry. > >The Germans *did* do such a thing, firebombing London, Coventry, >Manchester, and other British industrial centers, killing more than 27,000 >civilians during the Blitz of Britain, the dress rehearsal for this act >being the German bombing of the Basque town of Guernica in 1937. London was bombed after British terrorist attacks on Berlin. The target at Coventry was Rolls Royce and unfortunately 380 civilians died as "collateral damage" as the Americans would put it. By contrast, Anglo-American targets in German cities were the civilians. Strategic bombing is essentially terrorist work, and the preparations for this started in the early thirties, long before the NS regime in Germany. If >Germany had been able to force the UK into submision on the basis of this >campaign of terror bombing without having to implement an actual land >invasion, these actions would be regarded as justified, prophylactic, and >heroic for having achieved a new order in Europe with minimum bloodshed. >As it was, though, Britain, aided by the US, which was not yet its ally at >the time of the Battle of Britain, did not capitulate, eventually paying >Germany back in kind by flattening most of its cities in retaliation. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:48 EDT 2009 Article: 1999361 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <48fsr41pi4gabu9qi84cq84jmf4b3j7lff@4ax.com> References: <4rStl.17476$PH1.3288@edtnps82> <49b94331@news.x-privat.org> <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> <3b2dnYyMtJekhSPUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:52:50 -0400 Bytes: 2753 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999361 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:49:24 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article <3b2dnYyMtJekhSPUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:slbrr4lp79vq09u1pn9ukbkfgfa2rj2bll@4ax.com... > > >> >>How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> >>charged with? >> > >> > That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of >> > brainwashed Americans. Had Germans done such a thing, then there would >> > have been no end to the outcry. >> >> It's typical of the type of "history" we are forced to endure when it's >> written by the victors. > >Yes. It would be interesting indeed to read a history of Australia written >by the Aborigines. It would not make the criminals, scum, and misfits >dumped there by the British look like the nice, resourceful, heroic people >their descendants like to think of them as having been. It would make the >crimes committed by Aborigines today look like a Sunday school picnic. In much the same fashion, the much vaunted "Blitz" is pretty trivial stuff compared to the Anglo-American mass murder campaign in Germany. You are always comparing apples and oranges in a vain attempt to white-wash allied crimes. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:49 EDT 2009 Article: 1999366 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The lies met its death by Waffen SS Helmut Gunther delivering truth Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <0pKdnf7PXrk09CHUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:01:02 -0400 Bytes: 2891 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999366 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:50:27 -0700 (PDT), Matt Wiser wrote: >On Mar 14, 11:36 pm, "I'll Always Be 15-03-09" > wrote: >> "Matt Wiser" wrote in news:iu0vl.63009$FI5.54467 >> @newsfe07.iad: >> >> > Typical apologist rant, wouldn't you agree? >> >> A typical cramer rant >> >One and the same, apparently. Why is this nut wailing about Germany's >defeat, anyway? Pick a fight with the British, then the Soviets, and >then the U.S.? And guess what happens when things don't go your way: >total and complete defeat. They didn't "pick a fight" with the British. The reality is quite the reverse. Churchill and his bunch had planned for war with Germany since the late twenties when they realized that WW1 had not destroyed Germany. Britain went from being the world's greatest power in 1914 to being a relatively insignificant island off the French coast in 2009. Germany was the principal European power in 1900 and is still the principal European power in 2009. WW1 and WW2 killed almost 100 million people, but they failed to destroy Germany, much as the French-engineered Thirty Years War from 1618 to 1648 failed to destroy Germany. WW2 was a complete failure in that it gave freedom to nobody and handed over much of Europe to the Communists. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:49 EDT 2009 Article: 1999369 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The lies met its death by Waffen SS Helmut Gunther delivering truth Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <57f95edb-163a-49e2-b7de-f1812908d185@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <93Wul.116878$PT2.54809@newsfe11.ams2> <50c2c9ce-3ab3-48f6-b40d-54f21b4648c0@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <9748e10a-6bba-4ed1-94cb-8f73edca4177@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <0dlvl.65691$Zp.303@newsfe21.iad> <12mvl.22396$5t4.12723@newsfe24.iad> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:03:30 -0400 Bytes: 9306 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999369 On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:06:48 -0800, "Matt Wiser" wrote: >Which is typical of trolls, conspiro-nuts, and other similar types. When >information is presented that contradicts their fantasies, they ignore it LOL Look in a mirror, Matt. , >or wail about "you've been brainwashed," or some other such nonsense. Such >behavior indicates that they're usually off their rocker-and their meds, >too. >"I'll Always Be 16-03-09" wrote in message >news:Xns9BCFE5A12B6DFTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111... >> Dan wrote in news:0dlvl.65691$Zp.303@newsfe21.iad: >> >> > I'll Always Be 15-03-09 wrote: >> >> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> >> news:9748e10a- >> >> 6bba-4ed1-94cb-8f73edca4177@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com: >> >> >> >>> On Mar 14, 8:01 pm, Dan wrote: >> >>>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote: >> >>>>> On Mar 14, 6:18 pm, "Keith Willshaw" >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> >> messagenews >> >>> :57f95edb-163a-49e2-b7de-f1812908d185@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>>> On Mar 14, 2:37 pm, "Keith Willshaw" >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> >>>>>>> messagenews:99945418-9b19-4208-ac10-dc4da04a4cd6 >> >> @s20g2000yqh.googlegr >> >>> oups.com... >> >>>>>>> On Mar 14, 1:52 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> I would submit that the inhabitants of Warsaw, Rotterdam, >> >>>>>>>>> London, Coventry, >> >>>>>>>>> Belgrade, and Stalingrad would beg to differ, old boy. >> >>>>>>>> They can beg all they want old boy. None of those cities went >> >> throug >> >>> h >> >>>>>>>> atomic explosion, or firebombing as did German and Japanese >> >> cities. >> >>>>>>> What utter tripe. >> >>>>>> = Tripe is some weird kind of bovine stomach food invented by the >> >>>>>> po >> >>> or >> >>>>>> = and eaten by the nouveau riche. >> >>>>>> Says someone who has never eaten tripe, I have and its disgusting. >> >>>>>>> 1) On Sept 1 1939 the Luftwaffe launched the first of a series of >> >> mas >> >>> sive >> >>>>>>> air raids on Warsaw using a mixture of HE bombs to break open >> >> buildin >> >>> gs >> >>>>>>> and incendiaries to set them on fire. The result was that the >> >> centre >> >>> of >> >>>>>>> Warsaw >> >>>>>>> was burnt out. >> >>>>>>> 2) The bombing of Rotterdam on May 14th 1940 levelled almost 1 >> >> square >> >>> mile >> >>>>>>> of the city. Using the tired and tested mixture of HE and >> >> incendiarie >> >>> s >> >>>>>>> 24,978 homes, >> >>>>>>> 24 churches, 2,320 stores, 775 warehouses and 62 schools were >> >> destroy >> >>> ed >> >>>>>>> mostly >> >>>>>>> by fire. >> >>>>>>> 3) During the London Blitz which started in Sept 1940 London was >> >> bomb >> >>> ed >> >>>>>>> for 57 consecutive nights. The death toll of 43,000 civilians >> >>>>>>> would >> >> h >> >>> ave >> >>>>>>> been >> >>>>>>> much higher had the British not built an efficient civil defense >> >> prog >> >>> ram, >> >>>>>>> as >> >>>>>>> it >> >>>>>>> was over a million houses were damaged or destroyed. Vacant sites >> >> whe >> >>> re >> >>>>>>> buildings once stood could still be seen into the 1960's. One of >> >> the >> >>>>>>> reason >> >>>>>>> the toll was not much higher was the heroic activities of >> >> firefighter >> >>> s and >> >>>>>>> civilian fire watchers who attempted to stop the spread of the >> >> blazes >> >>> . >> >>>>>>> They took heavy casualties from the Luftwaffe who introduced the >> >>>>>>> practise of dropping anti-personnel weapons in follow on raids >> >> timed >> >>>>>>> to catch rescue workers and firemen responding to the main raid. >> >>>>>>> 4) November 14 1940, the first of more than 500 bombers attacked >> >>>>>>> Coventry. The first wave dropped HE bombs to crater the roads, >> >>>>>>> break the water and gas mains and block the roads with rubble >> >> making >> >>>>>>> it hard for rescue workers to respond. The second wave used >> >>>>>>> incendiaries to cause widespread fires. The raids continued all >> >> night >> >>>>>>> with german bombers returning to their bases in France to rearm >> >>>>>>> flying multiple sorties. By 8PM the ancient cathedral was well >> >> ablaze >> >>> . >> >>>>>>> Fire fighters managed to bring the fires under control until fresh >> >> ra >> >>> ids >> >>>>>>> caused further damage and forced them to withdraw. >> >>>>>>> This raid destroyed or damaged 60,000 buildings and wiped out >> >>>>>>> the mediaeval city centre. The Germans were inordinately proud >> >>>>>>> of this accomplishment and adopted the 'Coventriert' when >> >> describing >> >>>>>>> an attack aimed at destroying a target. >> >>>>>>> In Nov 1940 the RAF was still operating under rules of engagement >> >>>>>>> which limited them to bombing military targets only, even enemy >> >> indus >> >>> trial >> >>>>>>> premises were off limits. As he stood on the Air Ministry roof >> >> watchi >> >>> ng >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> city of London burn Air Vice Marshall Arthur Harris famously >> >>>>>>> used a biblical quotation to his aide 'As they have sown the wind >> >>>>>>> so shall they reap the whirlwind' >> >>>>>>> The ultimate price of these raids was of course the destruction >> >>>>>>> of Hamburg and Dresden by the RAF using the techniques so >> >>>>>>> graphically taught by the Luftwaffe. >> >>>>>>> Keith >> >>>>>> = And to start it all off, the fools that forced the 'treaty of >> >>>>>> = versailles' down the throat of Germany should have done some hard >> >>>>>> = thinking before they tried to starve Germany. >> >>>>>> Perhaps Germany would have done better to learn the lessons of >> >>>>>> their Big Mistake No 1 rather than repeating them. Waging brutal >> >>>>>> wars of conquest tends to make ones neighbours a little resentful. >> >>>>>> Keith >> >>>>> Trying to starve the German people makes them a tad resentful. >> >>>> Now you know how the Dutch felt when the Germans stole food from t >> >>> hem >> >>>> in WW1. >> >>>> >> >>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retread >> >>> Well Dan, you've done and got yourself a very high stupidity rating. >> >>> On a scale of 1 to 10 you get a 9. Since you wish to get into the >> >>> subject of theft then put on your gloves, some massive headgear and >> >>> let's do the man dance. >> >>> Theft 1: The theft of Native American lands by the US. >> >> >> >> Don't forget Canada. >> >> >> >> Don't forget Australia. >> >> >> >> >> >> Killing off >> >>> the red skins not only with the tools of starvation, sabers, >> >>> firearms. But germ warfare!!! Smallpox infected blankets!!! >> >>> SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssssss!! >> >> >> >> >> >> You will gladly provide cites proving that smallpox infected blankets >> >> were actually used and that spreading smallpox by this method is >> >> actually possible. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Theft 2: The control of the people by the so called founding >> >>> fathers. >> >>> Theft 3: Stealing the money of people; it's called taxation. >> >>> Theft 4: The English Crown got to where it be today by theft. By the >> >>> exploitation of peasants; the stealing of land etc. >> >>> Theft 5: The stealing of peaceful Indians by the Mayan Priest class >> >>> for sacrificial purposes. >> >>> Theft 6: The stealing of South America by the Spaniards. >> >> >> >> Make that christians >> >> >> > >> > I guess Bent didn't notice Portugal got a significant portion of >> > South America. >> > >> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired >> > >> >> Bent has never let facts interfere with his demonstrations of how cowardly >> he is. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:50 EDT 2009 Article: 1999663 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e-dneIyZt3E3SPUnZ2dnVY3goidnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:01:28 -0400 Bytes: 5287 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999663 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:04:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:nbbrr4trs2lvs3qnv4o7icgsjka1dfihs8@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 21:17:10 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>news:holman-1503091237530001@ke-hupnet52-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>> In article , "B.H. >>>> Cramer" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>>> news:holman-1503090938450001@ke-hupnet52-26.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > And what, pray tell, is difficult accepting Karl Frenzel's and Hans >>>>> > Münch's independent statements that during WW II while working at >>>>> > Sobibor >>>>> > and Auschwitz-Birkenau, respectively, they were involved in the >>>>> > implementation of a state-sponsored program, the objective of which >>>>> > was >>>>> > the extermination of the Jews of Europe, with priority given to women >>>>> > with >>>>> > children, children, and elderly people unable to contribute to the >>>>> > German >>>>> > war effort, this including capturing, killing, and disposing of the >>>>> > bodies >>>>> > of even more Jews? >>>>> >>>>> Because it's b'ollocks. None of this shit has ever been proved. >>>> >>>> ...to your impossibly high and selectively applied standards. It was >>>> certainly proved to such a high standard that SS-Oberscharfuhrer Karl >>>> Frenzel sat sixteen years for it and never claimed that he had been >>>> imprisoned on trumped up charges. >>> >>>Had he whined he would have been hanged. >> >> That is no doubt what he feared. The allies had instituted a veritable >> reign of terror in postwar Germany. > >Too right. I thought Bacque might have been overdoing it a bit in his book, >but so much of his claims are now corroborated in MacDonogh's book. Bacque's work is consistent with German people I know personally who were there, and Bacque has no axe to grind as opposed to most of the "court historians" who are employees of the holocaust industry and who write as they are told to do. > > >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> > Source: >>>>> > >>>> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/muench-hans/swedish-television-interview.html >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ST: What was the ideology? >>>>> > >>>>> > M: Simply National Socialism, as expounded by [Alfred] Rosenberg. The >>>>> > Germanic race was the future of the world and a guarantee against >>>>> > corruption and mismanagement and for keeping our Europe pure. The >>>>> > root >>>>> > cause of every evil in culture, of every degeneracy was the Jews, >>>>> > which >>>>> > is >>>>> > clear from the fact that the Jews weren't tolerated already in the >>>>> > Middle >>>>> > Ages. There must have been good reasons to put them into ghettos. >>>>> > There >>>>> > were constant pogroms, not only in Germany, in the whole of Europe. >>>>> > That >>>>> > is because the Jewish race is a destructive factor. There is no >>>>> > development, no peace, nothing worth living for when the Jews have a >>>>> > finger in the pie. >>>>> > >>>>> > ST: Therefore they must be exterminated? >>>>> > >>>>> > M: Because it hasn't succeeded so far in spite of all the severe >>>>> > measures, >>>>> > but they continually take hold of decisive posts in the economy, in >>>>> > the >>>>> > state, in cultural life. It has to be stopped. That can be done only >>>>> > by >>>>> > total physical extermination. >>>>> >>>>> Blah blah blah blah. All waffle, yougenie. >>>> >>>> Not waffle, Benjie, but meat and potatoes. >>> >>>Nope. Meat and potatoes is a man thing, yougenie. You don't qualify. >>> >>> >>> >> From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:50 EDT 2009 Article: 1999666 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The lies met its death by Waffen SS Helmut Gunther delivering truth Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <9748e10a-6bba-4ed1-94cb-8f73edca4177@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <0dlvl.65691$Zp.303@newsfe21.iad> <12mvl.22396$5t4.12723@newsfe24.iad> <2c2dnYLPKNWioiPUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <7f1f1b73-8628-464b-af2b-49ec85a839bb@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 286 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:19:44 -0400 Bytes: 13824 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999666 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:31:46 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >news:7f1f1b73-8628-464b-af2b-49ec85a839bb@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com... >On Mar 16, 7:59 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> messagenews:f4c871b7-6229-493f-b74d-0ce33e70aa0d@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >> On Mar 16, 2:06 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote: >> >> >> >> > Which is typical of trolls, conspiro-nuts, and other similar types. When >> > information is presented that contradicts their fantasies, they ignore >> > it, >> > or wail about "you've been brainwashed," or some other such nonsense. >> > Such >> > behavior indicates that they're usually off their rocker-and their meds, >> > too. >> > "I'll Always Be 16-03-09" wrote in >> > messagenews:Xns9BCFE5A12B6DFTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111... >> >> > > Dan wrote innews:0dlvl.65691$Zp.303@newsfe21.iad: >> >> > > > I'll Always Be 15-03-09 wrote: >> > > >> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> > > >> news:9748e10a- >> > > >> 6bba-4ed1-94cb-8f73edca4...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com: >> >> > > >>> On Mar 14, 8:01 pm, Dan wrote: >> > > >>>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote: >> > > >>>>> On Mar 14, 6:18 pm, "Keith Willshaw" >> > > >>>>> wrote: >> > > >>>>>> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> > > >> messagenews >> > > >>> :57f95edb-163a-49e2-b7de-f1812908d...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >> > > >>>>>> On Mar 14, 2:37 pm, "Keith Willshaw" >> > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > > >>>>>>> "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in >> > > >>>>>>> messagenews:99945418-9b19-4208-ac10-dc4da04a4cd6 >> > > >> @s20g2000yqh.googlegr >> > > >>> oups.com... >> > > >>>>>>> On Mar 14, 1:52 am, "Matt Wiser" >> > > >>>>>>> wrote: >> > > >>>>>>>>> I would submit that the inhabitants of Warsaw, Rotterdam, >> > > >>>>>>>>> London, Coventry, >> > > >>>>>>>>> Belgrade, and Stalingrad would beg to differ, old boy. >> > > >>>>>>>> They can beg all they want old boy. None of those cities went >> > > >> throug >> > > >>> h >> > > >>>>>>>> atomic explosion, or firebombing as did German and Japanese >> > > >> cities. >> > > >>>>>>> What utter tripe. >> > > >>>>>> = Tripe is some weird kind of bovine stomach food invented by >> > > >>>>>> the >> > > >>>>>> po >> > > >>> or >> > > >>>>>> = and eaten by the nouveau riche. >> > > >>>>>> Says someone who has never eaten tripe, I have and its >> > > >>>>>> disgusting. >> > > >>>>>>> 1) On Sept 1 1939 the Luftwaffe launched the first of a series >> > > >>>>>>> of >> > > >> mas >> > > >>> sive >> > > >>>>>>> air raids on Warsaw using a mixture of HE bombs to break open >> > > >> buildin >> > > >>> gs >> > > >>>>>>> and incendiaries to set them on fire. The result was that the >> > > >> centre >> > > >>> of >> > > >>>>>>> Warsaw >> > > >>>>>>> was burnt out. >> > > >>>>>>> 2) The bombing of Rotterdam on May 14th 1940 levelled almost 1 >> > > >> square >> > > >>> mile >> > > >>>>>>> of the city. Using the tired and tested mixture of HE and >> > > >> incendiarie >> > > >>> s >> > > >>>>>>> 24,978 homes, >> > > >>>>>>> 24 churches, 2,320 stores, 775 warehouses and 62 schools were >> > > >> destroy >> > > >>> ed >> > > >>>>>>> mostly >> > > >>>>>>> by fire. >> > > >>>>>>> 3) During the London Blitz which started in Sept 1940 London >> > > >>>>>>> was >> > > >> bomb >> > > >>> ed >> > > >>>>>>> for 57 consecutive nights. The death toll of 43,000 civilians >> > > >>>>>>> would >> > > >> h >> > > >>> ave >> > > >>>>>>> been >> > > >>>>>>> much higher had the British not built an efficient civil >> > > >>>>>>> defense >> > > >> prog >> > > >>> ram, >> > > >>>>>>> as >> > > >>>>>>> it >> > > >>>>>>> was over a million houses were damaged or destroyed. Vacant >> > > >>>>>>> sites >> > > >> whe >> > > >>> re >> > > >>>>>>> buildings once stood could still be seen into the 1960's. One >> > > >>>>>>> of >> > > >> the >> > > >>>>>>> reason >> > > >>>>>>> the toll was not much higher was the heroic activities of >> > > >> firefighter >> > > >>> s and >> > > >>>>>>> civilian fire watchers who attempted to stop the spread of the >> > > >> blazes >> > > >>> . >> > > >>>>>>> They took heavy casualties from the Luftwaffe who introduced >> > > >>>>>>> the >> > > >>>>>>> practise of dropping anti-personnel weapons in follow on raids >> > > >> timed >> > > >>>>>>> to catch rescue workers and firemen responding to the main >> > > >>>>>>> raid. >> > > >>>>>>> 4) November 14 1940, the first of more than 500 bombers >> > > >>>>>>> attacked >> > > >>>>>>> Coventry. The first wave dropped HE bombs to crater the roads, >> > > >>>>>>> break the water and gas mains and block the roads with rubble >> > > >> making >> > > >>>>>>> it hard for rescue workers to respond. The second wave used >> > > >>>>>>> incendiaries to cause widespread fires. The raids continued >> > > >>>>>>> all >> > > >> night >> > > >>>>>>> with german bombers returning to their bases in France to >> > > >>>>>>> rearm >> > > >>>>>>> flying multiple sorties. By 8PM the ancient cathedral was well >> > > >> ablaze >> > > >>> . >> > > >>>>>>> Fire fighters managed to bring the fires under control until >> > > >>>>>>> fresh >> > > >> ra >> > > >>> ids >> > > >>>>>>> caused further damage and forced them to withdraw. >> > > >>>>>>> This raid destroyed or damaged 60,000 buildings and wiped out >> > > >>>>>>> the mediaeval city centre. The Germans were inordinately proud >> > > >>>>>>> of this accomplishment and adopted the 'Coventriert' when >> > > >> describing >> > > >>>>>>> an attack aimed at destroying a target. >> > > >>>>>>> In Nov 1940 the RAF was still operating under rules of >> > > >>>>>>> engagement >> > > >>>>>>> which limited them to bombing military targets only, even >> > > >>>>>>> enemy >> > > >> indus >> > > >>> trial >> > > >>>>>>> premises were off limits. As he stood on the Air Ministry roof >> > > >> watchi >> > > >>> ng >> > > >>>>>>> the >> > > >>>>>>> city of London burn Air Vice Marshall Arthur Harris famously >> > > >>>>>>> used a biblical quotation to his aide 'As they have sown the >> > > >>>>>>> wind >> > > >>>>>>> so shall they reap the whirlwind' >> > > >>>>>>> The ultimate price of these raids was of course the >> > > >>>>>>> destruction >> > > >>>>>>> of Hamburg and Dresden by the RAF using the techniques so >> > > >>>>>>> graphically taught by the Luftwaffe. >> > > >>>>>>> Keith >> > > >>>>>> = And to start it all off, the fools that forced the 'treaty of >> > > >>>>>> = versailles' down the throat of Germany should have done some >> > > >>>>>> hard >> > > >>>>>> = thinking before they tried to starve Germany. >> > > >>>>>> Perhaps Germany would have done better to learn the lessons of >> > > >>>>>> their Big Mistake No 1 rather than repeating them. Waging >> > > >>>>>> brutal >> > > >>>>>> wars of conquest tends to make ones neighbours a little >> > > >>>>>> resentful. >> > > >>>>>> Keith >> > > >>>>> Trying to starve the German people makes them a tad resentful. >> > > >>>> Now you know how the Dutch felt when the Germans stole food from >> > > >>>> t >> > > >>> hem >> > > >>>> in WW1. >> >> > > >>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retread >> > > >>> Well Dan, you've done and got yourself a very high stupidity >> > > >>> rating. >> > > >>> On a scale of 1 to 10 you get a 9. Since you wish to get into the >> > > >>> subject of theft then put on your gloves, some massive headgear >> > > >>> and >> > > >>> let's do the man dance. >> > > >>> Theft 1: The theft of Native American lands by the US. >> >> > > >> Don't forget Canada. >> >> > > >> Don't forget Australia. >> >> > > >> Killing off >> > > >>> the red skins not only with the tools of starvation, sabers, >> > > >>> firearms. But germ warfare!!! Smallpox infected blankets!!! >> > > >>> SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssssss!! >> >> > > >> You will gladly provide cites proving that smallpox infected >> > > >> blankets >> > > >> were actually used and that spreading smallpox by this method is >> > > >> actually possible. >> >> > > >>> Theft 2: The control of the people by the so called founding >> > > >>> fathers. >> > > >>> Theft 3: Stealing the money of people; it's called taxation. >> > > >>> Theft 4: The English Crown got to where it be today by theft. By >> > > >>> the >> > > >>> exploitation of peasants; the stealing of land etc. >> > > >>> Theft 5: The stealing of peaceful Indians by the Mayan Priest >> > > >>> class >> > > >>> for sacrificial purposes. >> > > >>> Theft 6: The stealing of South America by the Spaniards. >> >> > > >> Make that christians >> >> > > > I guess Bent didn't notice Portugal got a significant portion of >> > > > South America. >> >> > > > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired >> >> > > Bent has never let facts interfere with his demonstrations of how >> > > cowardly >> > > he is. >> >You've nothing with which to refute my arguments. So you try and rely >> >on petty insults. It's not working for you. >> >> This trio of jerks have now allegedly killfiled you and I. They don't like >> it when they are challenged and are proved to be no more than shills for >> the >> official version of history. >> >>> This airforce wanker, Dan, is obviously being used by the other pair. >>> He's >>> so fucking stupid, and so damned pleased he's finally got some support, >>> there is nothing he won't do to suck up to them. > >>LOL. I wonder if any of this trio would find the courage to read >>something a little bit different. > >Of course they wouldn't. That's their problem. They are brain-washed cretins >who don't accept their history is choreographed and sanitised. > >>The book that we have both read >>'After the Reich' comes to mind. Reading that will of course not give >>a complete view of WWII, but it is a very good start. After reading >>that, I think most moral men/women would start to think differently >>about the war; leading to them doing more research. Uncovering things >>which they didn't know had happened. Putting pieces together. etc. > >It was a real eye opener to me. I had read Bacque some time ago, but thought >some of his comments were a bit over the top. After having seen MacDonogh >corroborate Bacque's work, I have taken a different stance. > >>But that takes honesty, character. > >Those traits are obviously alien to these clods. > >>Don't your ostriches do something that this trio(not only them of >>course)is doing. The head in sand deal. I know the reason for it. >>They are so involved in their flag and patriotism(false patriotism; >>the kind of patriotism that Mcain wrote about in PopMech)that to >>glimpse/acknowledge the truth would be damaging to their ego and self >>esteem. >>I had a problem too when my uncle told me of his experiences in Ike's >>camps after he was captured. It kind of set my world upside down a >>little bit, because up until that time I had been thinking that only >>the Soviet Union had treated their POW's horribly. I always thought: >>America = Good and apple pie and all of that. Things have changed. > >For fifty years of my life I didn't give any thought to questioning the >Holocaust(tm) or the history of WWI or WWII as I had been taught them. >Didn't the subjects much thought at all, in fact. > >About 4 years ago, I posted a couple of very innocuous questions about the >Holocaust(tm) on this forum and was immediately set upon by the rabid, >baying mongrel pack, who spouted so much hatred, filth and sheer nastiness >it gave rise to the thoughts "Why are they so angry, why are they so >defensive, what are they hiding." That is exactly the same feeling that I experienced when first confronted with McVay, McFee, and consorts. > >It didn't take me too long to realise I'd been had by having been fed a diet >of sanitised, dishonest, "history" and horseshit for decades. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:51 EDT 2009 Article: 1999673 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <267ff184-32d7-4d87-a160-4a9e4e081331@y13g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:55:40 -0400 Bytes: 4943 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999673 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:50:14 -0700 (PDT), Zulu wrote: >On 16 mar, 03:10, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:54:35 +0000 (UTC), m-weber >> >... > >> >Don't you "revisionist" folks claim that "over a million" German >> >POWs died in Allied camps?  Where is the physical evidence for >> >that,  pray tell? > >> The last is fairly simple, since the Wehrmacht was aware of how many >> of its members were alive on May 8, 1945 and how many were alive once >> control was returned to German authorities in 1949. There is a >> multiple-million person discrepancy. Some of it can be attributed to >> Soviet crimes, but much of the rest to the USA and France. > >Is that published by German authorities? I read stats in a number of books over the span of several years, but I don't know if the German government, which is a creature of the allied occupation authorities, has published something in one place on this topic. Bacques had to do some forensic accounting to make sense of the increases in MIA totals and KIA totals during the so-called postwar peace. A number of German authors had done similar exercises, but the authorities did not make it easy. The only data tables I have seen were in a German language book by Werner Haupt where the eastern front losses were given as follows for the period up to 31-Mar-1945: Fallen: 985,316 Wounded: 3,905,772 Missing in action: 1,281,285 Allied claims postwar are a multiple of these figures, leaving lots of room for creative accounting. > >> The fate of German POWs has been extrensively treated by impartial >> writers such as the Canadian, James Bacques, who has no axe to grind, >> whereas his opponents tend to be hagiographers for D.W. Eisenhower in >> particular and the American war effort in general. Sources such as >> Nizkor I take with a grain of salt because it is obviously a partisan >> site dedicated to spreading anti-German hate-propaganda. > >An extensive work carried out by German or European scholars is >necessary to clear that question. >However, by observing in which conditions German POWs were treated by >allies in their camps, I am afraid that Bacque might be close to the >true numbers with 30% of mortality rate. >For instance, in soviets camps with shelters and minimum conditions of >hygiene the average mortality rate was higher than 30% . >One can imagine which rate can be expected in camps without neither >shelters nor higiene and short food like the Ike's ones. > >General Russian statistics: > >122,671 persons arrested and interned between 1945 and 1950 >42,889 deaths > >General Mortality rate: 34,96 % > >"The mortality rates in the Soviet camps was higher than the rates >shown by statistics in the Nazi camps. According to the camp records >kept by the Soviet Union, there were 122,671 persons arrested and >interned between 1945 and 1950 in the Soviet camp system in Germany, >and 42,889 of them died. In addition, 756 persons were executed. The >camp guidebook says that "This information has been questioned from >various sides, requiring corroborative research." > >http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Buchenwald/SpecialCamp.html > >> It is interesting to note how inconsistent Americans rate the deaths >> of 380 people at Coventry to be a war crime but the deaths of more >> than 100,000 civilians at Hiroshima to be justified. It is a >> combination of American racism and their pompous, sanctimonious >> hypocrisy. > >That the way it is when winners judge losers after each war. >Some acts are qualified as crimes and others "collateral damages" if >not merely hidden. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:51 EDT 2009 Article: 1999675 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <724s8oFo2u8sU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:10:38 -0400 Bytes: 2316 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999675 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:21:51 +0000 (UTC), m-weber wrote: >In article , >Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:20:07 +0000 (UTC), m-weber >> wrote: > >>> Can you provide an example of these URL's you're so afraid of? This >>> is downright fascinating. > >> Nobody is "afraid" of them, but we have all seen the junk before and >> it just represents clutter that contributes nothing to the discussion. > >Well, "blow me down!" as Popeye The Sailor used to say, but >I thought that when debating whether people were killed or not, >then piles of corpses and mass graves are important evidence, >not "clutter"!? Few dispute that people died and in fairly large numbers. That much actually IS factual. The dispute is about causes of death and about whether the event constituted a deliberate policy or was simply a consequence of the circumstances produced by the war. There is plenty of room for variations in interpretation, except for people such as McVay for whom the whole story is like a religious dogma where every line and comma in the story is sacred. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:52 EDT 2009 Article: 1999677 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:16:41 -0400 Bytes: 1706 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999677 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. It is McVay's denial of Ike's camps and various other examples of allied crimes that convinced me that he is quite insincere and that his other historical claims are probably also bogus. From Moslems_fuck_goats_like_false_prophet_mohammad@pislam.shiit Fri Apr 10 17:49:53 EDT 2009 Article: 1999679 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!207.115.32.202.MISMATCH!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!newsfeed2.kddnet.ad.jp!newsfeed2.kddnet.ad.jp!newsfeed.kddnet.ad.jp!newsfeed.kddnet.ad.jp!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.hananet.net!false!feeder.kornet.net!news1.kornet.net!not-for-mail From: Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord and goat fucker who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement brutality as a means of bringing people under subjection Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.palestine,alt.religion.islam,soc.culture.jewish Subject: Re: Did you know? - bestiality is entrenched in the mozlim cult - even the false profit mohammed had his harem of favourite goats and camels Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:05:41 +0900 Organization: Moslems_fuck_goats_like_false_prophet_mohammad@pislam.shiit Lines: 3914 Message-ID: References: <13d14d2c-4774-4778-b5dc-dded3afd5b7d@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <2a3d7215-5bc4-46c0-b25c-6beb31eccb4c@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <8MadnQ3lN-nJ-SHVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d@bt.com> <288b974a-61ef-4486-93c2-a595dc10dcee@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 220.123.117.167 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news1.kornet.net 1237215835 9987 220.123.117.167 (16 Mar 2009 15:03:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news1.kornet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:03:55 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.19) Gecko/20081209 Thunderbird/2.0.0.19 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: Bytes: 111080 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999679 soc.culture.israel:2163214 soc.culture.palestine:734841 alt.religion.islam:1587431 soc.culture.jewish:2071402 Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord and goat fucker who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement brutality as a means of bringing people under subjection wrote: > Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord > and goat fucker who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement > brutality as a means of bringing people under subjection wrote: >> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada, >> Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal stained >> moslems wrote: >>> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, Canada, >>> Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal stained >>> moslems wrote: >>>> Yaako Warrior from AUZ, Germany, RSA, USA, Sweden, Hong Kong, >>>> Canada, Russia, China, Denmark, UK, .........., the slayer of fecal >>>> stained moslems. wrote: >>>>> Did you know? - bestiality is entrenched in the mozlim cult - even >>>>> the false profit mohammed had his harem of favourite goats and camels >>>>> >>>> HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck >>>> your mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all >>>> the time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist >>>> activities at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the >>>> donkey you fucked to a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send >>>> your child off to an indoctrination camp, practice thighing with >>>> little kids, ............ Practice all those and you too could >>>> become a prophet !! >>>> >>>> >>>> Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!! >>>> >>>> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >>>> helpinggaza@gmail.com >>>> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> fesack@wn.apc.org >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> >>>> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >>>> http://www.link.net >>>> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >>>> Fastlink, Jordan >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >>>> helpinggaza@gmail.com >>>> fesack@wn.apc.org >>>> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>>> >>>> >>>> _ >>>> /'_/) >>>> ,/_ / >>>> / / >>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>>> ('( ' /' ') >>>> \ / >>>> '\' _.7' >>>> \ ( >>>> \ \ >>>> >>>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>>> >>>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>>> arah1958@gmail.com >>>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>>> >>>> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >>>> http://www.link.net >>>> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >>>> Fastlink, Jordan >>> HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your >>> mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the >>> time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist >>> activities at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey >>> you fucked to a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your >>> child off to an indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little >>> kids, ............ Practice all those and you too could become a >>> prophet !! >>> >>> >>> Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!! >>> >>> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >>> helpinggaza@gmail.com >>> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> fesack@wn.apc.org >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> >>> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >>> http://www.link.net >>> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >>> Fastlink, Jordan >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >>> helpinggaza@gmail.com >>> fesack@wn.apc.org >>> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >>> http://www.link.net >>> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >>> Fastlink, Jordan >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >>> helpinggaza@gmail.com >>> fesack@wn.apc.org >>> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >>> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >>> >>> >>> _ >>> /'_/) >>> ,/_ / >>> / / >>> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >>> /'/ / / /" /_\ >>> ('( ' /' ') >>> \ / >>> '\' _.7' >>> \ ( >>> \ \ >>> >>> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >>> >>> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >>> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >>> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >>> fahmi@telkomsa.net >>> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >>> dsirc@mweb.co.za >>> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >>> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >>> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >>> helpline@sanha.org.za >>> arah1958@gmail.com >>> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >>> furtivo4000@gmail.com >>> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >>> >>> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >>> http://www.link.net >>> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >>> Fastlink, Jordan >> HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your >> mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the >> time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist >> activities at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey >> you fucked to a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your >> child off to an indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little >> kids, ............ Practice all those and you too could become a >> prophet !! >> >> >> Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!! >> >> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >> helpinggaza@gmail.com >> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> fesack@wn.apc.org >> arah1958@gmail.com >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> >> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >> http://www.link.net >> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >> Fastlink, Jordan >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >> helpinggaza@gmail.com >> fesack@wn.apc.org >> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >> http://www.link.net >> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >> Fastlink, Jordan >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >> helpinggaza@gmail.com >> fesack@wn.apc.org >> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >> http://www.link.net >> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >> Fastlink, Jordan >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> helpinggaza@gmail.co.za >> helpinggaza@gmail.com >> fesack@wn.apc.org >> nextsapresidents@gmail.com >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child >> molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks >> >> >> _ >> /'_/) >> ,/_ / >> / / >> /'_'/' '/'__'7, >> /'/ / / /" /_\ >> ('( ' /' ') >> \ / >> '\' _.7' >> \ ( >> \ \ >> >> Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! >> >> info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or >> politicsIranian@googlegroups.com >> Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com >> fahmi@telkomsa.net >> jamiat@islamsa.org.za >> dsirc@mweb.co.za >> jamiatmp@lantic.co.za >> sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za >> sanha-gp@sanha.org.za >> sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za >> helpline@sanha.org.za >> arah1958@gmail.com >> islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com >> furtivo4000@gmail.com >> ipcisa@yebo.co.za >> >> ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** >> http://www.link.net >> Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd >> Fastlink, Jordan > HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your > mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the > time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities > at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to > a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an > indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............ > Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !! > > > Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!! > > helpinggaza@gmail.co.za > helpinggaza@gmail.com > nextsapresidents@gmail.com > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > fesack@wn.apc.org > arah1958@gmail.com > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > > ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** > http://www.link.net > Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd > Fastlink, Jordan > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > helpinggaza@gmail.co.za > helpinggaza@gmail.com > fesack@wn.apc.org > nextsapresidents@gmail.com > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** > http://www.link.net > Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd > Fastlink, Jordan > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > helpinggaza@gmail.co.za > helpinggaza@gmail.com > fesack@wn.apc.org > nextsapresidents@gmail.com > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** > http://www.link.net > Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd > Fastlink, Jordan > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > helpinggaza@gmail.co.za > helpinggaza@gmail.com > fesack@wn.apc.org > nextsapresidents@gmail.com > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** > http://www.link.net > Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd > Fastlink, Jordan > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > helpinggaza@gmail.co.za > helpinggaza@gmail.com > fesack@wn.apc.org > nextsapresidents@gmail.com > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > > > > > > > > > > > moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child > molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks > > > _ > /'_/) > ,/_ / > / / > /'_'/' '/'__'7, > /'/ / / /" /_\ > ('( ' /' ') > \ / > '\' _.7' > \ ( > \ \ > > Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! > > info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or > politicsIranian@googlegroups.com > Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com > fahmi@telkomsa.net > jamiat@islamsa.org.za > dsirc@mweb.co.za > jamiatmp@lantic.co.za > sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za > sanha-gp@sanha.org.za > sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za > helpline@sanha.org.za > arah1958@gmail.com > islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com > furtivo4000@gmail.com > ipcisa@yebo.co.za > > ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** > http://www.link.net > Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd > Fastlink, Jordan HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............ Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !! Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!! helpinggaza@gmail.co.za helpinggaza@gmail.com nextsapresidents@gmail.com info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net ipcisa@yebo.co.za politicsIranian@googlegroups.com jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za fesack@wn.apc.org arah1958@gmail.com jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** http://www.link.net Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd Fastlink, Jordan moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! helpinggaza@gmail.co.za helpinggaza@gmail.com fesack@wn.apc.org nextsapresidents@gmail.com info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** http://www.link.net Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd Fastlink, Jordan moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! helpinggaza@gmail.co.za helpinggaza@gmail.com fesack@wn.apc.org nextsapresidents@gmail.com info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** http://www.link.net Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd Fastlink, Jordan moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! helpinggaza@gmail.co.za helpinggaza@gmail.com fesack@wn.apc.org nextsapresidents@gmail.com info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks _ /'_/) ,/_ / / / /'_'/' '/'__'7, /'/ / / /" /_\ ('( ' /' ') \ / '\' _.7' \ ( \ \ Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!! info@muslimmatch.com or apache@muslimmatch.com or politicsIranian@googlegroups.com Achmat.Samsodien@gmail.com fahmi@telkomsa.net jamiat@islamsa.org.za dsirc@mweb.co.za jamiatmp@lantic.co.za sanha-kzn@sanha.org.za sanha-gp@sanha.org.za sanha-cpt@sanha.org.za helpline@sanha.org.za arah1958@gmail.com islamwayoflife@googlegroups.com furtivo4000@gmail.com ipcisa@yebo.co.za ** Posted from LINKdotNET -Jordan ** http://www.link.net Cybertrust Australia Pty Ltd Fastlink, Jordan From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:00 EDT 2009 Article: 1999680 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 40 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:24:49 -0400 Bytes: 2707 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999680 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:56:15 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: > >"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >news:bcc4476e-12e5-48b4-b76e-26dd4fbaf4f6@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >> If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >> death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >> Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >> mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >> understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >> about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >> lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. > >Perhaps it's you who are mistaken. > >What if you are wrong, if Mr. McVay has actually done the research and found >that the source materials are not convincing? Mr. McVay has no education and is simply not qualified to do any research. > >Bacque certainly isn't convincing, as anyone who understands the way he >misues figures can plainly see. Why would Bacque do that, since he is an impartial Canadian with no axe to grind on this subject? I understand why employees of the holocaust™ industry would tend towards certain conclusions, the same way as tobacco executives claimed for years that smoking cigarettes was harmless or even beneficial. He who pays the piper calls the tune, as the old saying goes. McVay is paid by the industry and he says exactly what I would expect an employee of the industry to say. > >And where are the graves? We know where many of the Nazi death camp >graves are, so where are the graves from these Allied camps you claim? > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:01 EDT 2009 Article: 1999787 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The lies met its death by Waffen SS Helmut Gunther delivering truth Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2c2dnYLPKNWioiPUnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <7f1f1b73-8628-464b-af2b-49ec85a839bb@p20g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <7d4f762f-74cc-4308-b435-1c8b9e510388@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:20:49 -0400 Bytes: 2692 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1999787 On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT), Matt Wiser wrote: >On Mar 16, 12:01 pm, RJ11 wrote: >> In article , >> >> B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>    (snip) >> >>    Some typical rants from the Australian neo-Nazi activist posting >> as "Cramer": >> >>    "You seem to think I am a backer of these Islamic monkeys. You >> couldn't be further from the truth." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer", >> Message-ID: >> >>    "Poofters should be fucked and burned." --  Posted by "Ben Cramer", >> Message-ID: >> <42942e83$0$247$61c65...@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au> >> >>    "Women like you and the cohen cunt should be treated like >> gongs. Given a bloody good whack from time to time, to keep >> you in tune." -- Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID: >> <2JednRLNN48kYADYnZ2dnUVZ_oern...@giganews.com>. >> >>    "Yids are lice laddie" --  Posted by "Ben Cramer",  Message-ID >> . >> >> RJ. > >No wonder he's wailing about his side losing WW II. I wonder if he >knows that, had the Axis won, he'd be speaking Japanese now? I rather doubt that we would be speaking Japanese, but why is that such an obsessive fear for you? It is surely no worse than speaking the American excuse for English. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:01 EDT 2009 Article: 2000125 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why doesn't Mr. Skaliks answer simple questions? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:34:45 -0400 Bytes: 3930 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000125 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:14:23 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >news:GqadnSkNRfdtjiLUnZ2dnUVZ_gALAAAA@vex.net... >> In article , >> I'll Always Be 16-03-09 wrote: >>>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote in >>>news:n1vsr4h5lpmdudrdg09lte50rdi72bubah@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:56:15 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >>>>>news:bcc4476e-12e5-48b4-b76e-26dd4fbaf4f6 >>>@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>>>> death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>>>> Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>>>> mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>>>> understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>>>> about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>>>> lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >>>>> >>>>>Perhaps it's you who are mistaken. >>>>> >>>>>What if you are wrong, if Mr. McVay has actually done the research and >>>>>found that the source materials are not convincing? >>>> >>>> Mr. McVay has no education and is simply not qualified to do any >>>> research. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Bacque certainly isn't convincing, as anyone who understands the way he >>>>>misues figures can plainly see. >>>> >>>> Why would Bacque do that, since he is an impartial Canadian with no >>>> axe to grind on this subject? I understand why employees of the >>>> holocaustT industry would tend towards certain conclusions, the same >>>> way as tobacco executives claimed for years that smoking cigarettes >>>> was harmless or even beneficial. He who pays the piper calls the tune, >>>> as the old saying goes. McVay is paid by the industry and he says >>>> exactly what I would expect an employee of the industry to say. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>And where are the graves? We know where many of the Nazi death camp >>>>>graves are, so where are the graves from these Allied camps you claim? >> >>>No answer to the question? What are you hiding? > >Lies and whining from the totally uneducated mcFey snipped. I see that the ignorant and uneducated McVay is still beating on his skaliks drum despite having had no success with this nonsense in months. Perhaps he believes that this dead horse will miraculously resurrect? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:02 EDT 2009 Article: 2000167 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <49bffc8d@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 362 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:26:47 -0400 Bytes: 21169 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000167 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:39:51 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >m-weber escribió: >> In article , >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >>>> Don't you "revisionist" folks claim that "over a million" German >>>> POWs died in Allied camps? Where is the physical evidence for >>>> that, pray tell? >> >>> The last is fairly simple, since the Wehrmacht was aware of how many >>> of its members were alive on May 8, 1945 and how many were alive once >>> control was returned to German authorities in 1949. There is a >>> multiple-million person discrepancy. >> >> No there isn't. Zero evidence. No corpses, no extermination >> order, no murder machinery, nothing. Zilch. Nada. >> >>> The fate of German POWs has been extrensively treated by impartial >>> writers such as the Canadian, James Bacques, >> >> Who is a novelist, not a historian, and whose work lacks any >> value whatsoever: >> >> With regard to another of Mr. Bacque's conclusions, he arrives at his >> sensational figure of one million dead through a system of analysis >> that has left almost everyone who has tried to check his statistics >> and methods befuddled. He did make one mistake because of a typing >> error by a clerk. He saw a figure of 70,000 prisoners in an Army >> medical report and then calculated the total death rate for all >> prisoners in American hands on the basis of that number and the 21,000 >> deaths also mentioned in the report. That is, he arrived at his most >> basic conclusion, a death rate in all camps of 30 percent, by dividing >> the 21,000 deaths by the 70,000 prisoners. However, the 70,000 figure >> should have been 10 times higher. All other figures in the document >> make it clear that the correct number of prisoners was 700,000. This >> would make the death rate not 30 percent but 3 percent. >> >> In fact, as Albert Cowdrey of the Department of the Army's Center of >> Military History reported to the conference, the overall death rate >> among German prisoners was 1 percent. >> >> >> >> But the greatest number of "other losses" is revealed in the August >> 1945 Report of the Military Governor. (These monthly reports are in >> the Eisenhower Library in Abilene, Kan., in the National Archives >> in Washington and elsewhere; they are a basic source on every >> aspect of the occupation, including food shortages and prisoners. >> Mr. Bacque did not cite them and there is no evidence he examined >> them.) The August report lists the numbers of disarmed enemy forces >> discharged by American forces and those transferred to the British >> and French for forced labor. >> >> The report continues: "An additional group of 663,576 are listed as >> 'other losses,' consisting largely of members of the Volksturm >> [Peoples' Militia], released without formal discharge." >> >> >> >> > >Not only Bacque ! > >This article implies that Bacque (and perhaps one or two others) is >the only person making these claims against Eisenhower - this is >incorrect. I am currently undertaking further research on this topic, >and can already add the following people to the list : > >1. Martin Brech – he wrote the book “In Eisenhower's Death Camps: A >U.S. Prison Guard's Story”, in which he describes his personal >experiences in Germany after the war. > >2. Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, 101st Airborne Division, Senior >Historian, United States Army – he wrote "Starting in April 1945, the >United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one >million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . >Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military >bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything >in American history . . . an enormous war crime." > >3. General Robert Littlejohn - in a memorandum, he informed Eisenhower >that 1,550,000 Germans who were supposed to be receiving U.S. army >rations were getting nothing. > >4. Colonel James Mason and Colonel Charles Beasley, U.S. Army Medical >Corps – they published a paper on the US prison camps in 1950, >including the following description : "Huddled close together for >warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly >100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in >dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud." > >5. Max Huber, head of the International Red Cross – he wrote a letter >to the U.S. State Department describing American interference in >efforts to save starving Germans. Some months later he received a >response, falsely claiming that giving Red Cross food to enemy >personnel was forbidden. > >6. Jean-Pierre Pradervand, head of the International Red Cross >delegations in France - in late 1945 he told Henry W. Dunning (an >American Red Cross official) that conditions in the French camps were >worse, in many instances, than anything seen in the former Nazi camps. > >And the list is still growing... > >It is quite disgraceful that there appears to be an on-going >deliberate attempt to cover up the atrocities committed by the US army >in Germany after the war. I welcome further discussion, after which I >intend to add the above material (and more) to the >article.Logicman1966 12:45, 13 August 2007 (UTC) > >GI testimony POW US Eisenhower's camps > >By Martin Brech > > FORTY-FIVE years ago, I witnessed an atrocity: the deliberate > starvation of German POWs by our own army. History, written by the > victors, suppressed all news of this atrocity until James Bacque, a > Canadian author, published his brilliant expose, OTHER LOSSES. This > book is a best seller in Canada, a sensation in Europe, yet is > virtually unavailable (censored?) in the U.S. Our major booksellers > told me their distributors are not handling it. When I prevailed upon > a small, independent bookstore to order direct from Canada, the > publisher told them they would be the only store in New York State to > carry the book. This in 'the land of the free'?" > > Fortunately, Pat Buchanan called attention to OTHER LOSSES in his > January 10, 1990 column. He wrote: > > "Conclusion: the U.S. Army killed ten times as many Germans in POW > camps as we did on battlefields from Normandy to V.E. day. (German > POWs) had their rations cut below survival level until they were > dying at rates up to 30% of exposure, starvation and neglect... Red Cross > food trains were turned back and U.S. food shipments sat on the > docks...One French officer said the U.S. camps reminded him of Dachau > and Buchenwald...The book blames Eisenhower. 'The German is a beast,' > Ike had written... But that was not how the Canadians and British > felt, who treated their prisoners justly...It was not the view of > General Mark Clark, nor of Patton...Ignoring the book is not enough." > > Pat Buchanan's courageous column inspired me to help end the cover-up > of the atrocity I had witnessed. I wrote letters to several > newspapers which were, of necessity, short and incomplete. Now I would like to > finally free more of my painful memories, hoping to be heard, so that > this will help us to acknowledge our share in the "banality of evil", > cleansing ourselves with the truth. Perhaps we as a nation may then > put this behind us with some integrity and with some hope for > redemption. > > In October 1944, at age eighteen, I was drafted into the army while a > student at the NYS College of Forestry. Largely due to the "Battle of > the Bulge", my training was cut short, my furlough cut in half, and I > was then immediately sent overseas. Upon arrival in Le Havre, France, > we were quickly loaded into boxcars and shipped to the front. By the > time we reached it, I had developed mononucleosis severely enough to > be sent to a hospital in Belgium. > > By the time I left the hospital, the unit I had trained with in > Spartenburg, South Carolina was so deeply into Germany that I warn > placed in a "repo depo" (a replacement depot) despite my protests. I > then lost interest in which units I was assigned to because > non-combat units were generally not respected. My separation qualification > record states that I served mostly with the 14th Infantry Regiment, during > which time I guarded prisoners of war and served as an interpreter. > During my seventeen month stay in Germany, I was transferred to other > outfits also. > > In late March or early April 1945, I was assigned to help guard a POW > camp near Andernach along the Rhine. I had four years of high school > German, so I was able to talk to the prisoners, although this was > forbidden. > > Gradually, however, I was used as an interpreter and asked to ferret > out the S.S. (I found none.) > > In Andernach, between 50,000 and 65,000 prisoners, ranging in age > from very young teens to very old men, were crowded together in an open > field surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate > enclosure which I did not see until later. The men I guarded had no > tents or other shelter, no blankets and many had no coats. Inadequate > numbers of slit trenches were provided for excrement, and so the men > lived and slept in the mud and increasing filth during a cold, wet > spring. Their misery from exposure alone was evident. > > It was even more shocking to see them eating grass, sometimes > throwing it into a tin can containing a thin soup. They told me they did this > hoping to ease their hunger pains. Soon their emaciation was evident. > Dysentery raged and, too weak and crowded to reach the slit trenches, > they were increasingly sleeping in excrement. I saw no sign of > provision for water, so the thin soup was their food and water for > the day. Some days there was bread, less than a slice each. Other days > there was nothing. > > The sight of so many men desperate for food and water, sickening and > dying before our eyes, is indescribable. Even now, I can only think > of it momentarily. > > We had ample food and supplies that could have been shared more > humanely, and we could have offered some medical assistance, but did > nothing. Only the dead were quickly and efficiently taken care of: > hauled away to mass graves. > > My outrage reached the point that I protested to my officers, but I > was met with hostility or bland indifference. When pressed, they > explained they were under strict orders from "higher up". No officer > would dare to systematically do this to over 50,000 prisoners if he > felt he was violating general policy and subject to court martial. > The term "war criminal" was just beginning to come into fashion. > > Realizing my protests were useless, I asked a friend working in the > kitchen if he could slip me some extra food for the prisoners. He too > repeated that they were under strict orders to severely ration the > prisoners' food, and that these orders came from "higher up". But he > said they had more food than they knew what to do with and would > sneak me some. > > When I threw this food over the barbed wires to the prisoners I was > caught and threatened with imprisonment. I repeated the "offense", > and one officer threatened to shoot me. I naturally assumed this was a > bluff, but I began to have some doubts after I encountered a captain > on a hill above the Rhine shooting down at a group of German civilian > women with his .45 caliber pistol. When I asked, "Why?" he mumbled, > "Target practice," and fired until his pistol was empty. I saw the > women running for cover, but, at that distance, couldn't tell if any > had been hit. > > This is when I more fully realized I was dealing with some cold- > blooded killers filled with moralistic hatred. They considered the > Germans sub-human and worthy of extermination; another expression of > the downward spiral of racism. Articles in the G.I. newspaper, Stars > & Stripes, played up the Nazi concentration camps, complete with > photographs of emaciated bodies; this amplified our self-righteous > cruelty and made it easier to imitate behavior we were supposed to > oppose. Also, I think, soldiers not exposed to combat were trying to > prove how tough they were by taking it out on the prisoners and > civilians. At least, many combat soldiers told me later they would > not have tolerated this, for they combined hatred with respect for a > courageous enemy. > > The prisoners I spoke to were mostly simple farmers and workingmen, > as ignorant, albeit nationalistic, as many of our own troops. I heard > many versions of "my country, right or wrong, my country," which we > still hear in our own country today. > > As time went on, many of them lapsed into a Zombie-like state of > listlessness. Others, maddened by thirst, tried to escape in a > desperate or suicidal fashion, running through open fields in broad > daylight towards the Rhine to quench their thirst. They were mowed > down. > > Some prisoners were extremely eager for cigarettes, saying they took > the edge off their hunger. Accordingly, some enterprising G.I. > "Yankee traders" were acquiring hordes of wrist watches and rings in exchange > for handfuls of cigarettes or less. When I began throwing cartons of > cigarettes to the prisoners to ruin this trade, I found myself > threatened by rank-and-file G.I.s also. At least this taught me an > indelible lesson: how wrong majorities and authorities can be. > > A bright spot in this gloomy picture came, oddly enough, one night > when I was put on the "graveyard shift", from two to four A.M. > Actually, there was a graveyard on the uphill side of this enclosure, > not many yards away. My superiors had forgotten to give me a > flashlight and I hadn't bothered to ask, being disgusted with the > whole situation by that time. It was a fairly bright night and I soon > became aware of a prisoner crawling under the wires to the graveyard. > We were supposed to shoot escapees on sight, so I started to get up > to warn him to get back. Suddenly I noticed another prisoner crawling > from the graveyard back to the enclosure. They were risking their > lives to get to the graveyard for something; I had to investigate. > > When I entered the gloom of this shrubby, tree-shaded cemetery, I > never felt more vulnerable, but somehow curiosity kept me going. > Despite my caution, I tripped over the legs of someone in a prone > position. Whipping my rifle around while stumbling and trying to > regain composure of mind and body, I soon was relieved I hadn't > reflexively fired. The figure sat up, moving erratically. Gradually I > could see the beautiful but terror-stricken face of a woman with a > picnic basket nearby. German civilians were not allowed to feed, nor > even come near, the prisoners, so I quickly assured her I approved of > what she was doing, not to be afraid, and that I would leave the > graveyard to get out of the way, telling no one. > > I left the graveyard as quickly as possible and sat down, leaning > against a tree at the edge CF the cemetery to be inconspicuous and > not frighten the prisoners. I imagined then, and often since, what it > would be like to be a prisoner under those conditions and meet a > beautiful woman with a picnic basket. I never saw her again, but I > have never forgotten her face. > > While I watched, more prisoners crawled to and from the enclosure. I > saw they were dragging food back to their comrades and could only > admire their courage and devotion. As I walked back to my quarters at > the end of my shift, a nightingale and I were singing -- both felt a > touch of spring. > > (I originally did not intend to reveal the following incident, for it > moves into a realm termed "mystical". However, for me, it was an > extremely significant experience, changing my life, providing a light > no darkness can extinguish. It must be told, hoping it will foster > understanding.) > > On May 8, V.E. day, I decided to celebrate with some prisoners I was > guarding who were baking bread, meager amounts of which the other > prisoners occasionally received. This group had all the bread they > could eat, and shared the jovial mood generated by the end of the > war. We all thought we would be going home soon, a pathetic hope on their > part. We were in what was to become the French zone, and I later > witnessed the brutality of the French soldiers when we transferred > our prisoners to them for their slave labor camps (see below). > > However, on this day we were happy. > > After chatting with them about the potentials of peace for the rest > of our lives, I decided to risk a gesture of trust that objectively > would seem foolish. I emptied my rifle and stood it in the corner. They > tested me further by asking to play with it, and I agreed. > Intuitively I felt I could rely on their sense of honor not to attack me, for > they knew they too were being tested. This thoroughly 'broke the ice', and > soon we were singing songs we taught each other or I had learned in > high school German ("Du, du, liegst mir im Herzen"). Out of > gratitude, they secretly baked a small sweet bread and insisted I take it, > explaining it was the only possible gift they had left to offer. > Expressing my gratitude with a lump in my throat, I put it in my > tight "Eisenhower jacket" so I could sneak it back to my barracks. I later > found an opportunity to eat it outside. > > Never had bread tasted more delicious, nor conveyed to me a deeper > sense of communion while eating it. A wonderful feeling pervaded me, > gently opening me to an intimation of the Oneness of all Being. > Through those prisoners I sensed the ~cosmic presence of what has > been called the Christ, Buddha-nature, or, perhaps most aptly, the > Ineffable: cosmically present, but hidden and apparently separate, > until revealed in the wholeness of the giving of the self. Even > within the horror humans had created, I was taught a path to redemption may > open by taking a first, tentative step in the direction of love, > understanding and forgiveness. This above all the prisoners taught > me: not only are we all potentially humane humans, there is divinity > within us waiting for us to dissolve the defensive shield of ego. I > was pleased to discover later the words of Matthew 25:34-46, > expressing the potential within prisoners and all who are at our > mercy. > > Shortly after this experience I was plunged into even greater horror. > Some of our weak and sickly prisoners were being marched off by > French soldiers to their camp. The truck we were on first passed another > truck picking up bodies along the side of the road, and then came up > behind a slowly moving column of men. Temporarily we slowed down and > remained behind, perhaps because the driver was as shocked as I was. > The French soldiers were apparently incensed at the poor condition of > our prisoners, not only for labor but for marching to another camp. > Whenever a prisoner staggered or dropped back, the French clubbed him > to death and then dragged him to the side of the road. For many, this > quick death might have been preferable to their prolonged suffering. > Even gas would have been more merciful than our murder by neglect in > our slow 'killing fields'... > > Martin Brech > (Adjunct Professor, Philosophy & Religion, Mercy College; > Ex-G.I., Finally Free) Naturally, all these people are wrong and the uneducated gas-pump-jockey from Nanaimo is correct. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:03 EDT 2009 Article: 2000168 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust Losing Credibility Every Day Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <724323Fnuot5U1@mid.individual.net> <49bffbcf$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:27:50 -0400 Bytes: 10363 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000168 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:36:40 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >m-weber escribió: >> In article , >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >>> The fact that no gassed corpse has ever been found sounds suspiciously >>> like the WW1 propaganda about the Belgian children whose hands were >>> allegedly cut off by German soldiers. >> >> The corpses were cremated. Don't you know that? What are you babbling about? The children did not necessarily die and besides, the story has been totally disproven as British war propaganda. >> >> Two of the Birkenau crematoriums: >> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.shtml >> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.shtml >> >> Cremation furnaces: >> http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces.shtml >> >> See these things? They're called cremation furnaces. Corpses >> are burned in them. Capiche? >> > > > Cremation furnaces: > > http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces.shtml > >Those furnace were civilian models, nothing specific to criminal purpose. >On the opposite there were not properly model to industrial burning because, as being >civilian, they were tiny muffles planned to burn corpses by unit and to recuperate >ashes for the family into a receptacle placed below. > >Oranienburg, Dachau, Mauthausen or Buchenwald received the same equipment with little >variation on the combination furnaces x muffles. It can be observed that the ratio >applied to the number of muffles installed was 1 muffle per 4,500-5,000 inmates. > >Since the typhus epidemics occurrence after 1942, all corpses might be cremated at >the camps as a part of prophylactic measures. > >The same model of furnaces provided by the manufacturer Topf and Shone can be found >at Dachau, Oranienburg, Gusen or Buchenwald which are not labeled "extermination >camps" on the Dogma. > > > > Krone ordered more MUFFLES. That's all. > > > And MUFFLES are used to burn CORPSES. That's all. Or is > > that too difficult for you to understand? Once you realize > > this, we can proceed. Do you understand this? That the > > muffles were required in order to burn corpses? Such a > > huge number of corpses, that a capacity of 2,650 corpses > > a day wasn't enough? > > >U'r Not very familiar with "sanitary standards", R'u? > >Again > >To you, are WC required at a local for producing shit, dark turd? > >If my local is planned to host 10,000 people and I must adapt it to receive >15,000, I will need to install more WC because of SANITARY STANDARD OF BUILDING. > >Only idiots like you will say that I order more WC because I need to produce more shit. > >SS asked for more MUFFLES to respect the same sanitary standards applied at Dachau >and Oranienburg respecting cremation' installation. > >NOTHING EXTRAORDINARY AT AUSCHWITZ SINCE 230,000 INMATES WERE EXPECTED. >Not to mention more than 40 sub-camps in the same zone of which only 2 had their >particular muffles. > >We observe that the sanitary standard applied at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau or >Oranienburg by the SS was about 1 muffle installed per 4500-5000 inmates at each camp. > >AND You just forget that, to respect their SANITARY STANDARDS, the SS didn't asked >only for more MUFFLES, they ordered also to build a BIG INSTALLATION named ZENTRAL SAUNA. > > > >THE BIRKENAU "ZENTRAL SAUNA" WITH ITS DISINFECTION AUTOCLAVES AND ITS TOPF >DISINFESTATION OVENS > >.../ > >The Zentral Sauna was the most comprehensive disinfection and disinfestation >installation in KGL Birkenau. Designed after the “sanitary crisis” of August >1942 (typhus epidemic), the first three drawings for it date from November 1942 >[Drawings 1, 2 and 3]. Its equipment was to include three disinfection >autoclaves and four Topf disinfestation hot air chambers [Drawing 4]. > > > >http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm > >Not to mention evidently a big hospital, sport's fields, 30 barracks at Kanada and >many more barracks at Mexico's camp to complete basic installations. > >The defense of the DOGMA is really becoming a desperate combat. >Just like a robotic parrot you still send things which have been rebated 1000 times. > >Why don't you put here valuable documents like, for instance, the coke's consumption >at Auschwitz during its existence or the time sheets of the crematoriae at Birkenau >like the one we have from Gusen? > >Be useful for once, send us really interesting data. > > > >The allegation that cremation's performance could have been improved by burning >several cadavers instead of one in a muffle's cavity designed to burn one corpse only >(civilian model by Topf & Sohne) is a major absurdity. > >In fact, by trying to put several corpses in a small cavity you will only reduce the >hot air circulation around the material to be burnt and actually reduce the speed of >cremation, thus, obviously the productivity of the operation. > >We have good basis to state the actual cremation's capacity of the muffles built by >Topf as for instance the time sheet from Gusen which reports a real activity of the >oven during a period between 26-9-1941 and 12-11-1941. > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/ > >With a 2 muffles' oven at that camp, the time to burn a corpse is of an average of 24 >min. However the more realistic and traceable parameter to evaluate the production is >the coke's consumption. >In that kind of oven, an average of 28 kg of coke was used to burn one corpse. > >So, the design of the ovens built by the same firm Topf at Birkenau was similar to >that of Gusen. The main difference was the construction of a battery of 5 ovens of 3 >muffles x 2 furnaces at Krema II and III instead of the single 2 muffles x 2 furnaces >oven design built at Gusen. >BY using a 3 muffles x 2 furnaces construction at Birkenau instead of 2 muffle x 2 >furnaces in order to reduce the price, the only change that could be expected is >about a little increase of coke's consumption (due to more thermal losses). The time >of cremation remained similar because the temperature of operation was the same in >both cases. > >As consequence, a valuable estimation of actual cremation performance at Birkenau can >be made by using Gusen's data. > >Now, the only physical parameter relevant to make some calculation is the coke/wood >consumption at that camp. > >Such data seem to be of high secrecy because any of holkostians asked wanted to >deliver the numbers. > >By chance I have a significant part of it, which was cited by Mattogno >on page 135 of the book > >Auschwitz: Plain Facts >A Response to Jean-Claude Pressac >Edited by Germar Rudolf (September 2005) >With Contributions by Robert Faurisson, >Carlo Mattogno, Germar Rudolf, and Serge Thion > ><< From March 15 to October 25, 1943, a total of 607 tons of coke was supplied >to the crematories of Auschwitz-Birkenau. Furthermore, a total of 96 m3 >(3,390 cu. ft.) of wood was delivered in September and October 1943,[*] which >correspond to about 21.5 metric tons of coke. In terms of energy, this amounts >to a total of 628.5 tons of coke. > >[*] APMO, D-Au-I-4, segregator 22, 22a > >Based on Gusen's worksheet and on actual numbers of corpses cremated as well as >the corresponding quantity of coke, I already calculated that the average of >coke to burn a corpse was 28,72 kg in the 2 muffles oven of that camp (see >previous posts). > >To be noticed that the calculation is based on real condition of 94 corpses >burned on November 9, 1941 very near of hypothetical continuous condition which was >not recommended by Topf, the manufacturer. So, we are at the maximum potential capacity. > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/gusen-cremation-timesheet/ > >So taking as basis an average coke consumption of 28 kg for a corpse and a total >delivery of equivalent of coke of 628,5 MT at Auschwitz we can calculate the maximum >of corpses that could burn such quantity of combustible during the period considered. > >This means 628 500/28 = 22 446 corpses burned in 7,5 months during 1943 when all >Krema at Birkenau were at work. > >That gives us an average of 35,914 corpses per year in 1943. > >Sure, some objection can be made about the conditions of coke delivery and the >state of stocks (beginning-end of period) but that gives a good idea about the >real conditions of work for the ovens at Birkenau and the actual magnitude of >the numbers we have to count with. > >Furthermore, that rough estimation gives numbers probably higher than the reality >because not all the coke used at the camp was employed at the crematoria, especially >during winter time. > >However, such number estimated for 1943 would be pretty in accordance with the order >of magnitude of the figure coming from Arolsen concerning number of deaths >officially registered at Auschwitz. > > > > > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:04 EDT 2009 Article: 2000368 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Gas Chamber door - Photo Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <9Bivl.44327$UR4.13282@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com> <8mdsr411i0pd3q6s1lloslj28ob8hl51bq@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:12:09 -0400 Bytes: 4789 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000368 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:43:46 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:25:55 -0400, in ><8mdsr411i0pd3q6s1lloslj28ob8hl51bq@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:12:48 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On 3/12/2009 7:11 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> > >> >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >> news:holman-1203091213090001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>> In article , "B.H. >> >>> Cramer" wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >>>> news:holman-1103091614150001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> What death camps? >> >>> The ones erected in Poland for the sole purpose of implementing the >> >>> Final Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe discretely and >> >>> with industrial efficiency. >> >> >> >> Ah! Those old things? The "death camps" none of you clods has ever >> >> been able to prove existed. >> > >> >Their existence has been proved. >> >> Your assertion does not constitute "proof". Obviously there is doubt, >> or this newsgroup wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be going around >> hysterically sliming and flaming anybody who asks questions or >> expresses any doubt. > >This newsgroup has nothing to do with doubt, and never did. This >newsgroup has everything to do with a lunatic fringe of antisemitic, >racist and generally stupid denier trash, and the decent people who >refuse to let them get away with it. LOL You're foaming at the mouth again, Gord. > >> >> Those "death camps" associated with the "final solution" you clods >> >> have never been able to prove existed. >> > >> >The Final Solution has been proved. >> > >> >>> Specifically Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, and Trebinka. The ones that >> >>> have been the subjects of numerous trials leadig to convictions >> >>> since the 1940s. >> >> >> >> Sure have. With all the "evidence" for the yids' side taken on >> >> judicial notice. >> > >> >Nope. You are just a walking parrot of denier canards, aren't you? > >Obviously he is. > >> >>> One of them, Sobibor, is particularly well known due to the massive >> >>> and well docuented prisoner-led revolt that took place there on >> >>> October 14, 1943. >> >> >> >> Which in now way proves it was a "death camp." >> >> >> >>> Another, Belzec, has been the subject of recent archeological >> >>> reserach. Sobibor was in the news today: the German government is >> >>> continuing the trial against former Sobibor John Demjanjuk, >> >> >> >> Disgraceful, isn't it. >> > >> >Disgraceful he has gotten away with it so long. >> > >> >>> a former Ukrainian guard there (see below). Demjanjuk has never >> >>> challanged the existence of Sobibor. its functionality as a death >> >>> camp, >> >> >> >> I do beg your pardon. Just when did he admit it was a "death camp?" >> > >> >When he lied and said he didn't work there. He said the same about >> >Treblinka. It's funny how the people who worked in the camps are the >> >very ones who do *not* deny that they were death camps. It is only >> >third-string trash like you bunch who deny it. > >No answer from Ben. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:04 EDT 2009 Article: 2000370 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Germany pledges €1M aid for Auschwitz Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <1e5692b2-5464-40f5-bc7c-3c4263a4404b@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <1I2dnZKsm7OtrSvUnZ2dnVY3goidnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:14:36 -0400 Bytes: 3368 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000370 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:12:20 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:47:27 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:eUivl.44382$UR4.28408@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com... >> > On 3/11/2009 3:31 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> > >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> news:avEtl.33826$rp7.29149@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >>> On 3/10/2009 5:17 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> "StarDust" wrote in message >> >>>> news:1e5692b2-5464-40f5-bc7c-3c4263a4404b@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> >>>>> Germany pledges €1M aid for Auschwitz >> >>>>> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:18:51 GMT >> >>>>> Railway tracks are seen leading to the former Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi >> >>>>> concentration camp in southern Poland. >> >>>>> Berlin announces plans to donate €1 million to restore the >> >>>>> deteriorating structures at the former Nazi concentration camp of >> >>>>> Auschwitz. >> >>>>> German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier >> >>>> "Steinmeier?" Doesn't sound terribly Teutonic to me. >> >>> That is because your German is non-existent. >> >> >> >> Que? >> >>>> He wouldn't be a yid, perchance? >> >>> Nope. Evangelical Church in Germany. >> >> >> >> Hahahahahahahaha. Right! >> >>> Are you ever right? >> >> >> >> Frequently. >> >> >> >> Only asked a question, silly old man. Didn't make any claims. >> >> >> >> Nice to see you had to introduce whines and totally unsubstantiated >> >> "facts" to counter my question though. >> >> >> >> Such a donkey, you. >> > >> > Your surrender is noted. >> >> More lies and delusion from the silly old bugger. > >Nope. You claimed a member of the Evangelical Church is a Jew and >weren't man enough to admit your mistake. You obviously don't know enough to realize that the "Evangelical Church" in Germany is the Lutheran Church and not the "evangelical" meaning current in the USA. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:05 EDT 2009 Article: 2000375 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: finnish activist holappa arrested Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <7247jpFnppkhU1@mid.individual.net> <8d-dnSlkTcgjwSDUnZ2dnUVZ_heWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:24:03 -0400 Bytes: 3116 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000375 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:05:12 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >"Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >news:K-6dnadt__k8NiDUnZ2dnUVZ_oiWnZ2d@supernews.com... >> "Neil Harrington" wrote in message >> news:8d-dnSlkTcgjwSDUnZ2dnUVZ_heWnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Heinrich wrote: >>>> Henrik Holappa: Affidavit - Political asylum application >> >> >> >>>> >>>> I left Finland by plane and flew via Iceland to the United States on >>>> July 11, 2008. I came here as a bona fide tourist, >> >> That may be a questionable statement, given the descriptions of his >> activities. >> >>>> but decided toward >>>> the end of my tourist stay that I loved America, its people, its >>>> beauty and its freedom of speech and that I did not want to be >>>> imprisoned and possibly murdered in Finland. >>> >>> This is really rotten. I've read about the Toeben arrest too. >> >> The Toben arrest was a completely different issue. >> >> Toben was arrested in response to an extradition request by Germany, which >> Britain felt it had to respond to. > >I don't see why Britain "had to" do anything to Toeben, who was not a >resident of Britain but was merely changing planes at Heathrow, isn't that >so? According to Wikipedia, the Westminster Magistrates' Court dismissed the >arrest warrant -- after four weeks. So as I understand it, he is now free >but with the German government waiting for the chance to get him extradited >from some more cooperative country. Is that it, or am I missing something? > >Germany today sounds at least as bad as it was under the Nazis, as far as >free speech is concerned. And without all the great pageantry, athletic >girls with hoops, etc. > During the NS period in Germany you could get up on any stage and say whatever you wanted, as long as it didn't contradict the opinions or policies of the powers that were. Modern Germany is exactly the same thing. Don't contradict the powers that be. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:05 EDT 2009 Article: 2000376 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why Hitler Was Right Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:25:43 -0400 Bytes: 2206 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000376 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:40:23 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:t1frr49h2o415uc9hr19dijgf6pfk2ui9i@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 08:13:52 -0400, Mike Flannigan >> wrote: >> >>>I am a sadistical sexual psychopath whose dream is of meeting Hitler, >>>putting >>>a gun to his head, forcing headphones on him and sodomizing him with my >>>large, >>>juicy, uncircumsized cock while blasting Die Walküre. >>> >>> >>>Heil Hitler! >> >> LOL >> >> Well, I can certainly agree with your self-analysis as a psychopath. >> In Canada you could get help, but clearly not in the >> every-man-for-himself USA. > >You can't help a psychopath; it's a waste of time, money and resources >trying to. But here in the U.S. we do waste the time, money and resources >trying to anyway. Better to just lock 'em up and throw away the key. > >Nowadays they are usually called sociopaths, which is really just a more >polite way of saying "psychopath." > In either case, it seems fairly clear that Flannigan is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:05 EDT 2009 Article: 2000377 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka "Death Camp" Hoax - No Elephant Here Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <4nm1s4tu536p86un9hbe4vc2bnf0kaao9j@4ax.com> References: <6cfc0755-0d7b-42af-8a78-fad70080cd1c@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <-qCdnZzE9KYg-l3UnZ2dnUVZ_jqWnZ2d@vex.net> <6Q_vl.18576$PH1.14374@edtnps82> <49C0C9D8.FA29B9DB@yahoo.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:29:43 -0400 Bytes: 2953 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000377 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:15:52 +0100, Carla Schneider wrote: >I'll Always Be 18-03-09 wrote: >> >> "Truthseeker" wrote in >> news:6Q_vl.18576$PH1.14374@edtnps82: >> >> > Lets face the facts fucker what I posted are the plain and simple facts. >> >> You don't do facts. >> >> > Can you give us an example in modern history where others can settle in >> > a land where their ancestors did live once and claim it belong to them. >> >> Germany invading Czechslovakia. > >The Sudetenland had a more than 90% german Population in 1938. >The Country Czechslovakia did not exist before 1918, it was part >of the Austrian Empire. Before that it, as well as Austria, was an integral part of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation since the 9th century. > >> German anschlus of Austria. > >---------- >Between 1918 and 1919, Austria was officially known as the Republic of German Austria (Republik >Deutschösterreich). Not only did the Entente powers forbid German Austria to unite with Germany, >they also forbade the name; it was therefore changed to the Republic of Austria. >-------- > > >> Russian attack >> on Georgia. Germans and Alsace-Lorraine. > >Did the Russians attack Georgia to settle there ? >Alsace-Lorraine in 1870 had a 90% german speaking population. >It was not annexed for German settlement there. > > > >> >> > From 1945 onwards I did listening to all the propaganda where the Jews >> > claime the you have lived in Palestine all the time and the Palestinians >> > are only nomad's. >> >> But you yourself have proved that Jews always lived in Palestine >> > >They were a minority. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:06 EDT 2009 Article: 2000378 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <7qm1s49enlbsh7vutu5j00rn09s684vjup@4ax.com> References: <5YWdnfT5iNnx113UnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@supernews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:33:33 -0400 Bytes: 4137 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000378 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:08:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:n1vsr4h5lpmdudrdg09lte50rdi72bubah@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:56:15 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >>>news:bcc4476e-12e5-48b4-b76e-26dd4fbaf4f6@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >>>> If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>> death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>> Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>> mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>> understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>> about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>> lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >>> >>>Perhaps it's you who are mistaken. >>> >>>What if you are wrong, if Mr. McVay has actually done the research and >>>found >>>that the source materials are not convincing? >> >> Mr. McVay has no education and is simply not qualified to do any >> research. >> >>> >>>Bacque certainly isn't convincing, as anyone who understands the way he >>>misues figures can plainly see. I don't know what you've been drinking, but Bacque is consistent with the experiences of German people alive at the time. Your stuff generally isn't. >> >> Why would Bacque do that, > >Because he either doesn't know how to count, or is attempting to mislead. He has no reason to mislead anybody and nothing to gain. > >> since he is an impartial Canadian with no >> axe to grind on this subject? > >You're rather making an assumption there, aren't you? Having read his books, all of which make perfectly good sense and are consistent with the experiences of various German people I know, I would have to disagree that there are any big assumptions here. > >> I understand why employees of the >> holocaustT industry would tend towards certain conclusions, the same >> way as tobacco executives claimed for years that smoking cigarettes >> was harmless or even beneficial. He who pays the piper calls the tune, >> as the old saying goes. McVay is paid by the industry and he says >> exactly what I would expect an employee of the industry to say. > >So. Where are the graves? > >How do you explain the problems with Bacque's arithmetic? How to you >explain away his double-counting? > >And most importantly, where are the bodies? > >I suggest that if you caught a mainstream historian being as outrageously >sloppy or misleading as Bacque is, you'd be screaming that the Holocaust >has no foundation. > >But, you seem more than willing to accept Bacque. Why is that? > >-pk > > >> >>> >>>And where are the graves? We know where many of the Nazi death camp >>>graves are, so where are the graves from these Allied camps you claim? >>> >>> >>> > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:06 EDT 2009 Article: 2000382 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:53:06 -0400 Bytes: 2791 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2000382 On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." >> wrote: >> >>>If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >> >> It is McVay's denial of Ike's camps and various other examples of >> allied crimes that convinced me that he is quite insincere and that >> his other historical claims are probably also bogus. > > >What death camps? There were numerous places along the banks of the Rhine where millions were kept imprisoned on open meadows without shelter or food. Relatives were threatened with execution if they brought any food for the captives. The allegedly "noble" allies fall really far short of the mark. > >Where are the bodies? The Americans carted them off in dump trucks each morning and they are very unlikely to have given them a decent burial where burial sites could be found today. > >How do you explain the gross errors in Bacque's arithmetic and his refusal >to correct them? What errors are those? His findings make sense and they are consistent with the experiences of people who lived during that time. > > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:06 EDT 2009 Article: 2001095 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Germany pledges €1M aid for Auschwitz Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <1e5692b2-5464-40f5-bc7c-3c4263a4404b@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <1I2dnZKsm7OtrSvUnZ2dnVY3goidnZ2d@giganews.com> <14g4s49nhgl8um1j5s6tjou8hu6eqsojfm@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:53:50 -0400 Bytes: 4053 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001095 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:49:15 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:14:36 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:12:20 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:47:27 +1000, in >> >, "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> news:eUivl.44382$UR4.28408@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> > On 3/11/2009 3:31 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> >> news:avEtl.33826$rp7.29149@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> >>> On 3/10/2009 5:17 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> "StarDust" wrote in message >> >> >>>> news:1e5692b2-5464-40f5-bc7c-3c4263a4404b@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >>>>> Germany pledges €1M aid for Auschwitz >> >> >>>>> Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:18:51 GMT >> >> >>>>> Railway tracks are seen leading to the former Auschwitz-Birkenau Nazi >> >> >>>>> concentration camp in southern Poland. >> >> >>>>> Berlin announces plans to donate €1 million to restore the >> >> >>>>> deteriorating structures at the former Nazi concentration camp of >> >> >>>>> Auschwitz. >> >> >>>>> German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier >> >> >>>> "Steinmeier?" Doesn't sound terribly Teutonic to me. >> >> >>> That is because your German is non-existent. >> >> >> >> >> >> Que? >> >> >>>> He wouldn't be a yid, perchance? >> >> >>> Nope. Evangelical Church in Germany. >> >> >> >> >> >> Hahahahahahahaha. Right! >> >> >>> Are you ever right? >> >> >> >> >> >> Frequently. >> >> >> >> >> >> Only asked a question, silly old man. Didn't make any claims. >> >> >> >> >> >> Nice to see you had to introduce whines and totally unsubstantiated >> >> >> "facts" to counter my question though. >> >> >> >> >> >> Such a donkey, you. >> >> > >> >> > Your surrender is noted. >> >> >> >> More lies and delusion from the silly old bugger. >> > >> >Nope. You claimed a member of the Evangelical Church is a Jew and >> >weren't man enough to admit your mistake. >> >> You obviously don't know enough to realize that the "Evangelical >> Church" in Germany is the Lutheran Church and not the "evangelical" >> meaning current in the USA. > >I never said any differently, moron. LOL Thus babbled the man who claims never to use ad hominems. > In fact, I never addressed the >issue since it, like you, is completely irrelevant. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:07 EDT 2009 Article: 2001096 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49b94331@news.x-privat.org> <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:00:51 -0400 Bytes: 6544 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001096 rOn Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> Eugene Holman escribió: >> >> > In article , >> > ebersd...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>> How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> >>> charged with? >> >> That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of >> >> brainwashed Americans. >> >> > There is the matter of relativity here. The Japanese stated conclusively >> > that they would never surrender. The US demonstrated that it had what at >> > that time was the ultimate weapon, and more than one of them, causing the >> > Japanese to rethink their options. They surrendered within a week. >> >> > As far as I know, the crew of the 'Enola Gay' was not even given specific >> > information about what they were dropping. They were just following the >> > bits and pieces of the orders they had been issued, the overall results of >> > which were not clear from the orders issuedto each individual, in a >> > military situation in a war zone. The position of the crew of the Enola >> > Gay' was in no way comparable to what Karl Frenzel, third in command, was >> > doing at Sobibor: consigning all civilian deportees but those who were >> > young, healthy, and had skills deperately needed by the Germans, to the >> > gas chambers. >> >> > More than a hundred thousand people in the two atomic bombings and >> > arguably another hundred thousand have died concsequent to them, but the >> > alternative would have been an invasion of Japan by the US and the USSR, >> > millions of deaths on both sides, the destruction of cities, >> > infrastructure, cultural monuments, and territorial losses for Japan far >> > greater than the Kurile Islands, lost to the Soviets, and Okinawa, >> > captured and occupied by the Americans. >> >> Eugene, you need to study a bit more that question >> >> "The conventional arguments for dropping the bomb--to prevent an invasion and to >> force Japan to surrender--are not the real reasons for dropping the atomic bomb on >> Japan. The truth is that President Truman made a conscious and calculated decision to >> drop the atomic bomb on Japan in order to intimidate the Soviet Union and force the >> Russians to accept American leadership and domination of the post-war world." >> >> http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomic.htm > >Nice bit of fiction, but the US government was actually quite >concerned about the casualties we would suffer from an invasion. The >Soviets were at best an afterthought. > >And the notion that we were trying to establish "American domination" >is fatuous. The concern about the Soviets was the way they were >systematically wiping out freedom and democracy around the world. > > > > >> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> at Potsdam. >> >> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >> http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html > >That's nice. Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. LOL They were so significant that they had never been bombed up to that point. The fact is that the Americans needed "virgin targets" for this civilian atrocity, and that was the two cities' only significance. Even if there were military installations, it would not justify what was done. One could justify attacking the specific installations, but not the indiscriminate mass murder that the Americans actually perpetrated. The American government and the crew of the Enola Gay, were as much war criminals, or more, than anybody who was put on trial at Nuremberg. > > > > >> Rethinking Hiroshima and Nagasaki >> >> by James R. Lawrence, III >> >> "...the bomb-or-boys myth is completely punctured by the conclusion of the US >> government-sanctioned 1946 Strategic Bombing Survey, which – after conducting >> interviews with US and Japanese military personnel – found that Japan would have >> surrendered by the end of 1945 "even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."" >> >> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/lawrence1.html > >The fact that someone concludes, in hindsight, that the A-bombs were >unnecessary does not have any bearing on the fact that they seemed >entirely necessary during the war when Japan was still refusing to >surrender. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:07 EDT 2009 Article: 2001098 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <49c2aafc$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:03:48 -0400 Bytes: 3145 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001098 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 19, 4:28 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> Hiroshima Facts escribió: >> >> > On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >> >> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >> >> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> >> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> >> at Potsdam. >> >> >> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> >> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> >> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >> >> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> >> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> >> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >> >>http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html >> >> > That's nice.  Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >> > chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. >> >> Sure, that is clearly mentioned on the order of bombing. > >No, it is clearly mentioned in the target selection process. If the cities were so significant, why were there no previous bombings over several years of war in a war characterized by large-scale bombings? Your model makes no sense, and is just simple-minded justification for an American war crime. The fact is, the Americans needed virgin targets to make sure that there were plenty of combustibles on hand. > >All the order of bombing does is tell them to go ahead and drop the >bombs. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:08 EDT 2009 Article: 2001100 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <0657s4lejt19ebnvlq5jkrgmam1d1lngmd@4ax.com> References: <598fcafa-da8d-4421-b0d4-e364ce0e4937@m36g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <49bfe28a@news.x-privat.org> <47b6df08-3ae9-4c1f-b7a6-39f95d372e79@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:08:58 -0400 Bytes: 3811 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001100 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:54:28 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article ><47b6df08-3ae9-4c1f-b7a6-39f95d372e79@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Zulu > wrote: > >> On 18 mar, 00:11, hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >> > In article <49bfe...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu wrote: > >> >> Come on Eugene, are you assumind that Congoleses don't deserve our >> consideration because they live in Africa? > >No. I am a human being and feel empathy for all fellow human beings. My >point is that it is somewhat easier for most people to accept killing off >human beings about whom you know nothing and who live far away than it is >to accept killing neighbors who are linguistically, culturally, and >racially similar. The British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, >Belgians, Germans, and Italians pulled off this crap overseas and nobody >really cared. The Soviets, Chinese, Japanese, Australians, Americans, and >South Africans did it to their own people, or to indigenous people living >on their territory, and few outsiders really cared. It was quite a >different issue when Nazi Germany invaded Poland, the Netherlands, >Belgium, and the Czech lands and started to round up and kill the local >Jews, a considrable number of whom were German Jews who had dutifully >emigrated at great personal expense a few years earlier. The peak Jewish population in Germany was about 500,000. About 200,000 remained on the eve of WW2, but very few of the 300,000 who left would have gone to primitive places like Poland or Czechoslovakia which had never been particularly friendly towards Jews. > >> And what about the genocides perpetrated by the Soviets? > >What about them? They were internal affairs, much like the American Civil >War. Tragic, but not a matter of inviting yourself to ethnically cleanse >your neighborhood. > >> How many including the 10 millions of starved Ukrainians? > >That was a response to a rebellion. The food weapon has been used many >times in history. It was used by the English to teach the Irish a lesson >as well in the 19th century. > >> Ukraine remembers famine horror >> By Laura Sheeter >> BBC News, Kiev > >I have lived and worked (Freedom Support Act Orientation Camp, Kiev, >Ukraine, August 1994) in Ukraine. I am more than passingly familiar with >the issue. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:08 EDT 2009 Article: 2001101 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400 Bytes: 2690 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001101 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... > > >> > Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and culture >> > seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody has yet >> > succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects and >> > references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to know, >> > computer translation only works for the driest and most decontextualized >> > texts. >> >> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this feel-good >> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? > >If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" when >talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has had >in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. > > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:08 EDT 2009 Article: 2001103 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49b94331@news.x-privat.org> <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> <1dce7038-70ec-485d-b6ff-85013a5c9603@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <848679f7-d72b-4090-8a91-7ef297c9d4e3@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:17:15 -0400 Bytes: 6919 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001103 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:58:30 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 17, 11:01 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." >wrote: >> On Mar 17, 12:53 am, Michael Ejercito wrote: >> >> > On Mar 14, 2:13 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." >> > wrote: >> >> > > On Mar 14, 5:59 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> > > wrote: >> >> > > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:37:25 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >> > > > >Eugene Holman escribió: >> > > > >> Not even Demjanjuk has argued that he is "a poor innocent man". He has >> > > > >> never had difficulty admitting that he was a soldiuer in the Red Army, >> > > > >> became a POW, and, in German captivity, volunteered to work as a so-called >> > > > >> Ukrainian guard at concentration camps. >> >> > > > >> His defense has always been based on the premise that the only way that he >> > > > >> could have survived would have been to dutifully carry out the orders >> > > > >> given to him. The degree to which carrying out obviously criminal orders >> > > > >> as the only alternative to being killed has been a controversial issue >> > > > >> ever since the first war crimes trials. Given Demjanjuk's age and what he >> > > > >> has already been through, I regard harassing him any longer as >> > > > >> unnecessary. Nevertheless, he påovides us with one of the last >> > > > >> opportunities to see the kind of moral dilemmas men of his generation were >> > > > >> forced to live with. >> >> > > > >> I see no need to try and sentence him yet again. But I do think he could >> > > > >> do us all a favor by testifying in detail about where he was and what he >> > > > >> was forced to do. >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >So, he admitted to have been a guard in a concentration camp, so, what more? >> >> > > > >Will Germany put in trial all former US guards at Eisenhower' camps also? >> >> > > > >Will all US people who worked at Guantanamo be brought to an International Court? >> >> > > > Americans can do whatever they wish. They are exempt from >> > > > international law and from war crimes provisions. They are truly >> > > > exceptional, and only ordinary mortals need to be concerned about such >> > > > details as laws and fundamental decency. >> >> > > How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> > > charged with? >> >> > None. >> >> > Hiroshima was the site of a Japanese Army headquarters. >> >> > Michael >> >> Why didn't they just bomb Jap Army Headquarters then? >> Would you have had a problem had Washington been nuked? Sheesh. Que >> Logic! Me I'd have had a problem if either Ottawar or Warshington had >> been nuked. Or any civilian center for that matter. But don't forget >> my position. My position is that the allies went civilian kill >> crazy. No honour there. They(emphasis on the US and Britain) were >> always kind of shitty in their military operations. >> Would the Japs have nuked Warshington if they had had the capability >> to do so is the next question. >> The answer is to look at how many civlilians were targeted and killed >> in Hawaii. >> 68 civilians killed by the Japs? That can't be right. Weren't the >> Japs a bunch of kill crazy morons? All of youse take a lesson from >> the Japs here. This is how you attack a military target. Simple eh? >> You don't need to miss your targets and kill mostly civilians. You >> bomb valid military targets.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_civilians_were_killed_in_the_Decem... >> >> Had the Japs nuclear capability at the time of WWII, they still would >> have needed a delivery system. How to get to Warshington? Let's say >> they could do so. OK. They are over Warshington and fly over the >> Pentagon and drop not a nuke, but a series of TNT or other related >> explosive ordinance. After all, If a couple of Arabs could fly a >> plane into the place, then it shouldn't be too fucking hard to bomb >> it. Using highly trained and experienced pilots I might add. I might >> also repeat the statement given by wili.answers: The Japs only killed >> 68 civies at Pearl. Why? Because they were after military targets. >> It was an act of aggression. Illegal? I don't know. They had not >> declared war yet. But their actions pale in comparison to the >> monstrous atrocities committed by the US and its allies. As do >> Germany's. >> Why would the Japs nuke Warshington if they could lessen civilian >> casualties by dropping conventional weapons? >> The attack at Pearl shows that they were not intent on killing >> civilians. > >Pearl Harbor was indeed a crime due to the fact that it was attacked >in peacetime. One could say the same thing about Iraq or numerous other victims of American aggression. > >And the way our POWs were treated was another horrible crime. Given the way that you treated Japanese soldiers who were captured, the correct Japanese response would have been instant mass execution of all American service personnel who fell into their hands rather than putting the people into camps. > > >And the notion that Japan somehow was sparing of civilian casualties >is ridiculous. 20 million dead Chinese civilians would like to beg to >differ. But they can't, because they were all brutally massacred by >the Japanese Army. Nobody is accusing the Japanese of being saints, but their excesses don't excuse American crimes. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:09 EDT 2009 Article: 2001104 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Confessions of SS Men who were at Auschwitz - B'ollocks Exposed Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <8uudnWqpcfb2Al3UnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:19:05 -0400 Bytes: 2395 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001104 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:49:15 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:14:12 +1000, in ><8uudnWqpcfb2Al3UnZ2dnVY3goSdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:aem0s45c08ce7o3g806qb8bq44oojbm964@4ax.com... >> > On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:40:37 +1000, in >> > , "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> news:C2jvl.44384$UR4.32133@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> > On 3/14/2009 11:43 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Confessions of SS Men who were at Auschwitz by Robert Faurisson >> >> > >> >> > Good Heavens, Ben, don't embarrass yourself by quoting that fraud. >> >> >> >> Good heavens, gourd. Don't embarrass yourself by showing your absolute >> >> desperation. >> > >> > Of course, I forgot. You only quote frauds. >> >> I seem to have done that in this very thread, don't I. > >Exactly. You quoted the fraud Faurisson. Faurisson is not a fraud, but McFee definitely is. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:09 EDT 2009 Article: 2001106 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Whopper! Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:33:28 -0400 Bytes: 1489 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001106 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:05:50 -0700 (PDT), "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >Only 17 Jews were killed in WWII in new data presented by revered and >most respected Holocaust Historian, Mark Weber. "We recently re- >researched the numbers and found that only 17 died- 7 died in snow >skiiing accidents, 6 died taking other sports related risks and the >other 4 died of natural causes." Weber also added that WWII itself >never happened nor did the US Civil War or 911. LOL A "Doc Tavish" forgery. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:10 EDT 2009 Article: 2001107 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Whopper! Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <1PmdncVDSLEk-V_UnZ2dnUVZ_jWWnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:34:28 -0400 Bytes: 1509 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001107 On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:28:30 -0400, "Neil Harrington" wrote: > >"B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >news:a8aa36e4-3c07-4915-8907-92bb3a647a23@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com... >> Only 17 Jews were killed in WWII in new data [ . . . ] > >Well, that's sure a lot closer than 6 million, anyway. > >Why not post under your own name, though? If were to post as "Doc Tavish" he would be written off as a partisan propagandist and ignored. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:10 EDT 2009 Article: 2001109 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Germany ups funds for Shoah survivors' Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 51 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:41:40 -0400 Bytes: 2802 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001109 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:53:53 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net... >> The Jewish Claims Conference said it won a promise Thursday from the >> German government to increase funding to elderly Holocaust survivors in >> eastern Europe. >> >> German officials promised to increase monthly payments from €178 ($235) to >> €240 ($315) for survivors in some of the poorest eastern European >> countries, such as Ukraine, said Roman Kent, a negotiator for the claims >> conference. >> >> Those in relatively wealthier eastern countries now in the European Union, >> such as Poland, will see their payments rise from €216 ($295) to €240 >> ($328), he said. >> >> Kent said the breakthrough came Thursday during meetings with >> representatives of Germany's Finance Ministry. >> >> He called it a "measure of some justice" for a group that often lives >> mired in poverty. >> >> The goal, he said, is to make the lives of the Nazi victims, most of whom >> are now in their 80s or 90s "a little easier in the twilight of their >> lives." >> >> Those living in impoverished parts of eastern Europe often lack food, >> medicine and even coal, wood or gas to heat their homes. In many case, >> they lost siblings or other relatives in the Holocaust, and lack family >> support, he said. >> >> Attempts by The Associated Press to reach the Finance Ministry by phone >> for comment went unanswered late Thursday. > >Hahahahahahaha. > >They never give up, do they. > >The French have just told them to bugger off. I wish that the German authorities had that much guts. Germany doesn't owe these people a single Pfennig/cent. > > >> >> >> From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:10 EDT 2009 Article: 2001112 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Germany ups funds for Shoah survivors' Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8977s4ppk0qbe93l5k5mlaf0o38pfc9fdr@4ax.com> References: <72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 43 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:42:42 -0400 Bytes: 2854 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001112 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:56:06 -0700, "ÇDoügßT" wrote: >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net... >> The Jewish Claims Conference said it won a promise Thursday from the >> German government to increase funding to elderly Holocaust survivors in >> eastern Europe. >> >> German officials promised to increase monthly payments from ?178 ($235) to >> ?240 ($315) for survivors in some of the poorest eastern European >> countries, such as Ukraine, said Roman Kent, a negotiator for the claims >> conference. >> >> Those in relatively wealthier eastern countries now in the European Union, >> such as Poland, will see their payments rise from ?216 ($295) to ?240 >> ($328), he said. >> >> Kent said the breakthrough came Thursday during meetings with >> representatives of Germany's Finance Ministry. >> >> He called it a "measure of some justice" for a group that often lives >> mired in poverty. >> >> The goal, he said, is to make the lives of the Nazi victims, most of whom >> are now in their 80s or 90s "a little easier in the twilight of their >> lives." >> >> Those living in impoverished parts of eastern Europe often lack food, >> medicine and even coal, wood or gas to heat their homes. In many case, >> they lost siblings or other relatives in the Holocaust, and lack family >> support, he said. >> >> Attempts by The Associated Press to reach the Finance Ministry by phone >> for comment went unanswered late Thursday. >> > >Waaaaaaaaaaaa, the Eurotrash bitch whines again. How much longer do you >think these payments are going to have to go on retard? Hint: it ain't gonna >be much longer than a decade at most. > Who knows, the number of "survivors" seems to increase from year to year, quite unlike normal demographics. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:11 EDT 2009 Article: 2001144 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Germany ups funds for Shoah survivors' Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net> <72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net> <%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> <72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net> <72hp12Fq71koU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:09:49 -0400 Bytes: 4492 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001144 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:54:26 +0100, "Heinrich" wrote: > >"ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >news:ERNwl.14053$8_3.12927@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com... >> "Heinrich" wrote in message >> news:72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net... >>> >>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>> news:%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>> news:72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> >>>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>>> news:iWIwl.16090$as4.10782@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>>> news:72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> The Jewish Claims Conference said it won a promise Thursday from the >>>>>>> German government to increase funding to elderly Holocaust survivors >>>>>>> in eastern Europe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> German officials promised to increase monthly payments from ?178 >>>>>>> ($235) to ?240 ($315) for survivors in some of the poorest eastern >>>>>>> European countries, such as Ukraine, said Roman Kent, a negotiator >>>>>>> for the claims conference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those in relatively wealthier eastern countries now in the European >>>>>>> Union, such as Poland, will see their payments rise from ?216 ($295) >>>>>>> to ?240 ($328), he said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kent said the breakthrough came Thursday during meetings with >>>>>>> representatives of Germany's Finance Ministry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He called it a "measure of some justice" for a group that often lives >>>>>>> mired in poverty. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The goal, he said, is to make the lives of the Nazi victims, most of >>>>>>> whom are now in their 80s or 90s "a little easier in the twilight of >>>>>>> their lives." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those living in impoverished parts of eastern Europe often lack food, >>>>>>> medicine and even coal, wood or gas to heat their homes. In many >>>>>>> case, they lost siblings or other relatives in the Holocaust, and >>>>>>> lack family support, he said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Attempts by The Associated Press to reach the Finance Ministry by >>>>>>> phone for comment went unanswered late Thursday. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Waaaaaaaaaaaa, the Eurotrash bitch whines again. How much longer do >>>>>> you >>>>>> think these payments are going to have to go on retard? Hint: it ain't >>>>>> gonna >>>>>> be much longer than a decade at most. >>>>>> >>>>> this is going on for too long a period of time.somebody in germany >>>>> should rise and tell the jew to fuck it >>>> >>>> I'll bet the costs associated w/this are insignificant nazi bitch. >>>> >>> i donot think so on the other hand the jews are after the last penny they >>> canbn get from the germans, they are never satisfied >> >> LOL, been reading the Protocols of the Elders of Zion much lately? >> > >i have them photocopied but have not yet have had the time to read it. the >same applies to mein kampf i came to page10and found it so boring i never >set eyeon thebook asgain. LOL "Mein Kampf" is indeed extremely dull reading. I have never had any luck finding any of the extravagant claims made for the book by various allied stooges. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:11 EDT 2009 Article: 2001148 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: sex between men disgusting Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <73g7s4hgs5q4nc77ptt2q3smancs8nvsap@4ax.com> References: <72hj65Fpo91sU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 68 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:13:10 -0400 Bytes: 3597 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001148 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:34:27 -0700, "ÇDoügßT" wrote: >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:72hj65Fpo91sU1@mid.individual.net... >>A new survey published on Thursday revealed that homophobia was still alive >>and kicking among Israelis: A third of respondents said that they are >>"disgusted" by sex between men, 19% of parents said they would prohibit >>their children from meeting gays or Lesbians and 17% said they would >>support a law limiting homosexual relations. >> > >LOL. Gawd you're a fucking retard. I'll bet jackboots and fishnets >are your fashion statement Eurotrash. > >> >> >> >> The survey was conducted by the School of Psychology at the Center for >> Academic Studies in Or Yehuda, among 516 respondents. >> >> >> >> The poll found that 56% of the public had no problem with gays; 25% said >> that they completely object to homosexuality; 7% stated that they opposed >> it because it was forbidden according to their religion; and 12% said that >> they did not mind homosexual relations on television, but not under their >> roof. >> >> >> >> Thirty-two percent of respondents said they found sex between men to be >> disgusting, while 6% said the same about sex between women. About 40% of >> residents stated that when it comes to sex "anything goes." >> >> >> >> Asked whether sexual relations between men should be legally restricted, >> 45% replied that Israel is a democratic state and therefore no such >> restriction should be introduced. Some 37% of respondents said that while >> people should be free to do as they please in the privacy of their own >> home, public displays of such tendencies, such as during the Pride Parade, >> should be limited. >> >> >> >> Meanwhile 17% of the poll's participants replied that since Israel was a >> Jewish state with a religious nature, homosexuality should be restricted >> by law. >> >> >> >> The respondents were also asked how they would respond if a long-time >> friend told them her or she was gay. Fifty-six percent said that "a friend >> remains a friend" regardless of his sexual orientation, while 31% stated >> this would cause them to sever the ties with this friend. >> > >All of the above are merely opinions asshat. People are still allowed to >have >their own opinions. I don't think Israel is hanging gays by the neck until >dead -- I guess that the LGBT community should be grateful for very small mercies. That Israelis are bigots isn't exactly news. >like your loverly islamonazi pig pals do. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:11 EDT 2009 Article: 2001420 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <0jq9s4hq408qban1sgir5lst1j0i5uhmta@4ax.com> References: <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <49c2aafc$1@news.x-privat.org> <49c2d496@news.x-privat.org> <95759364-48ce-410a-8a6c-9364daec18a5@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:25:04 -0400 Bytes: 3539 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001420 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:30:12 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 19, 7:25 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> Hiroshima Facts escribió: >> >> > On Mar 19, 4:28 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >> Hiroshima Facts escribió: >> >> >>> On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >>>> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >>>> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> >>>> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> >>>> at Potsdam. >> >>>> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> >>>> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> >>>> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >>>> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> >>>> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> >>>> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >>>>http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html >> >>> That's nice.  Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >> >>> chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. >> >> Sure, that is clearly mentioned on the order of bombing. >> >> > No, it is clearly mentioned in the target selection process. >> >> > All the order of bombing does is tell them to go ahead and drop the >> > bombs. >> >> And, can we have a look on that "target selection process" for Hiroshima? > >"(2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of >embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area." That's nice, but it isn't a justification for destroying the entire city. The atomic bomb was in effect a "wide area bombing" which is automatically a war crime. > >http://www.dannen.com/decision/targets.html > > > >> Do you have other orders of bombing to show us? > >Other orders of bombing?? > >You mean the copy that was sent to Groves for review? It is identical >in its substantive parts. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:12 EDT 2009 Article: 2001421 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8nq9s4hapqthce829oij5nhrnvv1vqu2hh@4ax.com> References: <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <49c2aafc$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 60 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:28:45 -0400 Bytes: 3874 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001421 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:41:16 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 20, 9:03 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts >> wrote: >> >On Mar 19, 4:28 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >> Hiroshima Facts escribió: >> >> > On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >> >> >> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >> >> >> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> >> >> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> >> >> at Potsdam. >> >> >> >> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> >> >> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> >> >> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >> >> >> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> >> >> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> >> >> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >> >> >>http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html >> >> >> > That's nice. Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >> >> > chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. >> >> >> Sure, that is clearly mentioned on the order of bombing. >> >> >No, it is clearly mentioned in the target selection process. >> >> If the cities were so significant, why were there no previous bombings >> over several years of war in a war characterized by large-scale >> bombings? > >Japan only suffered large-scale bombings in 1945. > >Hiroshima was not bombed because it had been reserved for the A-bomb. That is what I have always believed. Hiroshima was a premeditated war crime for which the entire American government and the Joint Chiefs of Staff deserved to be hanged. The American military uniform has been permanently stained by this crime and anyone who wears the uniform of dishonour is human garbage several ranks below shit. > >Nagasaki was not bombed because it was hard to find using radar >guidance -- not a problem for a daytime A-bomb drop using visual >guidance, but a significant problem for any nighttime incendiary raid. > > > >> Your model makes no sense, > >It does to historians. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:12 EDT 2009 Article: 2001422 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49bac411$1@news.x-privat.org> <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:34:48 -0400 Bytes: 6769 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001422 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:34:22 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 20, 9:00 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts >> wrote: >> >On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >> Eugene Holman escribió: >> >> > In article , >> >> > ebersd...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>> How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> >> >>> charged with? >> >> >> That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of >> >> >> brainwashed Americans. >> >> >> > There is the matter of relativity here. The Japanese stated conclusively >> >> > that they would never surrender. The US demonstrated that it had what at >> >> > that time was the ultimate weapon, and more than one of them, causing the >> >> > Japanese to rethink their options. They surrendered within a week. >> >> >> > As far as I know, the crew of the 'Enola Gay' was not even given specific >> >> > information about what they were dropping. They were just following the >> >> > bits and pieces of the orders they had been issued, the overall results of >> >> > which were not clear from the orders issuedto each individual, in a >> >> > military situation in a war zone. The position of the crew of the Enola >> >> > Gay' was in no way comparable to what Karl Frenzel, third in command, was >> >> > doing at Sobibor: consigning all civilian deportees but those who were >> >> > young, healthy, and had skills deperately needed by the Germans, to the >> >> > gas chambers. >> >> >> > More than a hundred thousand people in the two atomic bombings and >> >> > arguably another hundred thousand have died concsequent to them, but the >> >> > alternative would have been an invasion of Japan by the US and the USSR, >> >> > millions of deaths on both sides, the destruction of cities, >> >> > infrastructure, cultural monuments, and territorial losses for Japan far >> >> > greater than the Kurile Islands, lost to the Soviets, and Okinawa, >> >> > captured and occupied by the Americans. >> >> >> Eugene, you need to study a bit more that question >> >> >> "The conventional arguments for dropping the bomb--to prevent an invasion and to >> >> force Japan to surrender--are not the real reasons for dropping the atomic bomb on >> >> Japan. The truth is that President Truman made a conscious and calculated decision to >> >> drop the atomic bomb on Japan in order to intimidate the Soviet Union and force the >> >> Russians to accept American leadership and domination of the post-war world." >> >> >>http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomic.htm >> >> >Nice bit of fiction, but the US government was actually quite >> >concerned about the casualties we would suffer from an invasion. The >> >Soviets were at best an afterthought. >> >> >And the notion that we were trying to establish "American domination" >> >is fatuous. The concern about the Soviets was the way they were >> >systematically wiping out freedom and democracy around the world. >> >> >> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >> >> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> >> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> >> at Potsdam. >> >> >> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> >> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> >> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >> >> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> >> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> >> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >> >>http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html >> >> >That's nice. Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >> >chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. >> >> LOL >> >> They were so significant that they had never been bombed up to that >> point. The fact is that the Americans needed "virgin targets" for this >> civilian atrocity, and that was the two cities' only significance. > You have already stated that the two cities had been reserved for nuclear destruction by the American war criminals. Your silly attempt to justify this outrage just shows the total depravity of the American system. >Nope. The significance of Hiroshima was that it was a major military >center with tens of thousands of soldiers, and it contained the >military headquarters in charge of repelling any invasion in the >southern half of Japan. It doesn't justify your war crime. > >The significance of Nagasaki was that it was a industrial center >devoted to weapons manufacturing. It doesn't justify the destruction of the city and the mass murder of its inhabitants. America is garbage. I hope that the current financial collapse will see its disappearance as the world hegemon. The USA is probably the most evil and despicable political entity in world history. Its net contribution to the world is negative, rather than just zero. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:13 EDT 2009 Article: 2001423 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: French Anti-Zionist party - The USA needs that, too Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <77511f73-0a4f-44d2-b09d-679b41916d1a@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <49bfd08f$1@news.x-privat.org> <49c41b77$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:39:11 -0400 Bytes: 4315 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001423 On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:40:44 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >I'll Always Be 18-03-09 escribió: >> "Boedicia@isp.com" wrote in news:c843a3be-00b4-4422- >> 8425-6a2f636de75b@s38g2000prg.googlegroups.com: >> >>> On Mar 17, 8:32 am, ZuLu wrote: >>>> Boedi...@isp.com escribió: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 15, 7:10 am, The Endeavor wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:26:29 -0400, Johnny B Jesus wrote: >>>>>>> In an attampt to rid it's country from the contol of Zionist Lobby >> Gr >>> oups >>>>>>> and organizations, France has launched it's new Anti Zionist >> Politica >>> l Party >>>>>>> called "Parti Anti Sioniste." Below are the parties goals taken >> from >>> a >>>>>>> translated page: >>>>>> I can see that Jean-Marie Le Pen is in the group. I am not >> surprised. >>>>> Who cares? The French people's loyalty should be to France not >>>>> Israel. There >>>>> are far too many jews in places of influence in France as they are in >>>>> every other >>>>> country that has allowed them to settle. Sarkozy is mostly jew as are >>>>> those he stuck in >>>>> his Cabinet. Same thing happened in Britain when the jew Blair took >>>>> over. As to the U.S. >>>>> no explanation is necesary - U.S. politicians are terrified of >>>>> offending the jew. >>>>> "Should the Iraqi's ever cross over the Israelite border for >>>>> agression, I would personally >>>>> get in a ditch, grab a rifle and fight". >>>>> Bubba Clinton who avoided military service in the U.S. during Vietnam >>>>> and has the >>>>> guts of a rabbit. >>>>>> It is sick really, who said Nazism is dead! >>>>> France has a very large jew population and always has. The j >>> ew >>>>> population >>>>> before WW2 remained the same after WW2. One might ask why the Nazis >>>>> didn't kill them all as they did in Poland according to the Holocaust >>>>> market. Where did >>>>> all those French jews come from? >>>> There were 360,000 jews in France in 1942. There are about 600,000 >> nowada >>> ys. >>>> France is said one of the most antisemitic country of the world. >>> The French have long memories as does everyone else who has had jews >>> foisted >>> upon them over the past 2000 years. My point was why didn't the >>> Germans deport >>> and kill all those French jews in WW2? If they had done, there >>> wouldn't be so many >>> of them in France now. Are French jews different from Polish, >>> Hungarian, Czech/German >>> jews? If so, how so? >> >> >> If the Americans hadn't saved France in two world wars, we wouldn't have >> to put up with them now. > >Americans only? > >A little presumptuous you are. It is also rather air-headed. France, and most other European countries, have been defeated from time to time, but they are generally still here. All the Americans achieved was to increase the carnage on all sides. With "friends" like the Americans, poor France didn't need any enemies. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:13 EDT 2009 Article: 2001483 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <777as4hc86cujbrm718edirvbjq6cc79qa@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 128 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:10:22 -0400 Bytes: 6476 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001483 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:58:00 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/20/2009 8:24 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: > >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:catamont-3EC8D6.07233920032009@news-40.giganews.com... >>> In article , "B.H. >>> Cramer" wrote: >>> >>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>>> news:bbe4s45b8s1mcvsrssoqlupp48hpml2eck@4ax.com... >>>>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:48:50 +1000, in >>>>> , "B.H. Cramer" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>>>>> news:ric3s41u73be0nkfq0j8gv6p1n3qemrs8b@4ax.com... >>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:38:16 +1000, in >>>>>>> , "B.H. >>>>>>> Cramer" wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> news:catamont-7AD730.08254318032009@[216.196.97.130.in-addr.arpa]... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] > >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [Cramer] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is not a single source, and you know it. There >>>>>>>>>>>> was much debate about the issue, with hundreds >>>>>>>>>>>> of posts going thither and non for ages. You >>>>>>>>>>>> damned well know that too. >>>>>>>>>>> [McFee] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's "hither and yon", not "thither and non". >>>>>>>>>>> Please get a grip. >>>>>>>>>> Hahahahahahahah. Check your own words, you silly old >>>>>>>>>> fart. >>>>>>>>> My goodness. With the evidence right in front of him, >>>>>>>>> he STILL can't see the difference between "yon" and >>>>>>>>> "non." >>>>>>>> Oh, but I have, silly, whiny woman. That was not the word >>>>>>>> gourd took me to task over. >>>>>>> It was the expression "thither and non", as I clearly said. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. You questioned the "thither" you silly old fart. You >>>>>> stated it should have been "hither." >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't be lying now, silly old man. Google is NOT your friend. >>>>>> >>>>> The exact quote, about 8 lines above, shows that you are the >>>>> liar. > >>> >>>> Yep. Where you pulled me up over the use of "thither" you silly >>>> old man. > >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "It's "hither and yon", not "thither and non". Please get a >>>>> grip >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You have taken "pathetic" to a whole new level. >>>> I explained the non as a typo, you silly old man. I didn't even >>>> see it initially. It was only after la salzman bunged her hooked >>>> schnoz into it that I saw what you were whining about. > >> >>> Thanks for admitting that you are too stupid to notice your own >>> mistakes, even AFTER Gord pointed it out to you. >> >> I was concentrating on gourd's fuckwittery and lies about the leading >> word, silly woman. > >No you weren't. You were fleeing your inability to back up your lies >about the Auschwitz 4 million figure. Do you*ever* tell the truth? One could ask you the same question, Gord. On page 1914 of the Universal Standard Encyclopedia published in NY city in 1956, the following may be read: "According to a conservative estimate, more than 4,000,000 men, women, and children were put to death in the Auschwitz camp alone ..." and further along one can read "At Buchenwald, where some of the Nazi personnel made a hobby of collecting and tanning human skin for book covers and lamp shades, the crematory had a capacity of 400 bodies daily." Both items have since been disproven, no thanks to people such as Kenny and Gord who like to fight to keep old lies upright. > >> But don't let the obvious of that distract you from indulging >> yourself in your usual hate rant, delusion and nastiness. > >Look who's talking. The most vulgar, hate-filled coward this newsgroup >has ever seen. > >>> No such thing as "thither and non." Gord wrote it above, clear as >>> day. You were too stupid to notice your mistake, ASSUMED Gord was >>> quibbling with a word that was correct, and completely ignored the >>> mistake you had made. >> >> Indeed I did. Which I admitted to much, much earlier in this >> ridiculous attempt of yours and Oy Vey McFee's to create something >> from nothing. >> >> That you now find it necessary to take the saga to an entirely new >> level of stupidity speaks volumes of your desperation, dearie. > >That you carry on like this speaks volumes about your pathetic nature. > >>> But do explain how hitting the "n" key instead of the "y" key >>> (which aren't next to each other), qualifies as a "typo" instead of >>> what it actually was: a stupid mistake made by a stupid man who >>> can't proofread properly. >> >> Hahahahahahahaha. Suggest you ask that of susan cohen - the mistress >> of the "typo." > >IOW, it wasn't a typo and you are a liar. But everyone already knew that. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:13 EDT 2009 Article: 2001570 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:17:04 -0400 Bytes: 6851 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001570 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in ><2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> Holman) wrote: >> >> >In article , "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> > >> > >> >> > Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and culture >> >> > seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody has yet >> >> > succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects and >> >> > references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to know, >> >> > computer translation only works for the driest and most decontextualized >> >> > texts. >> >> >> >> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this feel-good >> >> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> > >> >If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" when >> >talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has had >> >in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. > >Wrong. > >Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >"Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >tortured him into writing this): > > > >Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: > >...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >werden. "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of Germany at that. > > > >[translation] > >To clear up all misunderstandings, I inform you of the following: > >... a differentiation is to be made between those who can be finished >off in the hitherto usual way, and those to whom a special treatment >applies. In the latter case, we are dealing with circumstances that >because of their degradation, their danger or their propaganda >consequences, it is appropriate without regard to the person, to >eliminate him through a ruthless procedure (namely by execution). > >[/translation] > >-- Nuremberg Document 1944-PS > >And here is what Heinrich Himmler wrote on February 20, 1942, once >again long before there were Americans or Russians lurking about. > > > >Bekämpfung der Diziplinwidrigkeit > >(4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichsicherheitshauptamt >Sonderbehandlung unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen >Tatbestandes zu beantragen. >(5) Die Sonderbehandlung erfolgt durch den Strang. > > > >[translation] > >Combatting adverseness to discipline > >(4) In especially serious cases, special treatment is to be applied >for from the Reich Main Security Office by transmission of the >particulars and the exact facts of the case. >(5) Special treatment takes place by hanging. > >[/translation] > >-- Nuremberg Document 3040-PS > >and yet more: > >(5) Executions must not be held in the camp. … If the camps in the >Government General are located in the immediate vicinity of the border >the prisoners are to be taken if at all possible to former Soviet >Russian territory for special treatment. > >-- Nuremberg Document 502-PS > >(6) By 1943, Himmler was so sure that just about everyone understood >the meaning of the word "Sonderbehandlung", that he ordered it >replaced in the Korherr Report on the Final Solution of the Jewish >Question. Korherr had used the word on page 9 of the document. Here >is what he received from Himmler's assistant. > > > >Der Reichsführer-SS hat Ihren statistischen Bericht über 'Die >Endlösung der europäischen Judenfrage' erhalten. Er wünscht, daß an >keiner Stelle von 'Sonderbehandlung der Juden' gesprochen wird. Auf >Seite 9 muß es folgerndermaßen heißen: > >'Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russichen >Osten: > >Es wueden durchgeschleust >durch die Lager im Generalgouvernement... >durch die Lager im Warthegau...' >Eine andere Formulierung darf nicht genommen werden >... > >-- Bundesarchiv, Signatur NS (neu) 1570 From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:14 EDT 2009 Article: 2001572 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 191 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:21:10 -0400 Bytes: 8819 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001572 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:32:08 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:u1ias411uvvp76tuapjjscfc3qgalvcv9i@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >>> Holman) wrote: >>> >>> >In article , "B.H. >>> >Cramer" >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>> >> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>> > >>> > >>> >> > Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >>> >> > culture >>> >> > seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >>> >> > has yet >>> >> > succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >>> >> > and >>> >> > references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to know, >>> >> > computer translation only works for the driest and most >>> >> > decontextualized >>> >> > texts. >>> >> >>> >> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>> >> feel-good >>> >> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>> > >>> >If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >>> >when >>> >talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >>> >had >>> >in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>> >>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >> Wrong. > >I see. > >So you speak German better than the Germans. You also understand the nuances >of the language of the day better than those native born Germans. The term "Sonderbehandlung" is not in itself sinister, and means only "special handling" which can mean pretty much anything you want it to mean. In the case of the German post office, its meaning is pretty obvious. Gord's sinister meanings are decidedly less obvious and even tendentious. > >Well done, old feller. Your chutzhap continue to astound me. > >Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12 : > > >DER bekannte, rassisch verfolgte Schriftsteller H. G. Adler, früher in Prag, >jetzt in London, hat 1960 im Vorwort zur zweiten Auflage seines >außerordentlichen Buches "Theresienstadt 1941--1945" geschrieben: "Es sei >auch ausdrücklich festgestellt, daß die Bezeichnung Herrn Dr. Korherrs als >'SS-Statistiker' ... nicht stimmt, da er der SS nie angehörte und für sein >Verhalten in den Jahren des Nationalsozialismus rehabilitiert ist." >Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen Historikers >Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die Zahl der Opfer des >Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom >Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit >der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen. >Die Angabe, ich hätte dabei auch aufgeführt, daß über eine Million Juden in >den Lagern des Generalgouvernements und Warthegaus durch Sonderbehandlung >gestorben seien, ist ebenfalls unzutreffend. Ich muß gegen das Wort >"gestorben" in diesem Zusammenhang protestieren. >Es war gerade das Wort "Sonderbehandlung", das mich zu der telephonischen >Rückfrage beim RSHA veranlaßte, was dieses Wort zu bedeuten habe. Ich bekam >die Antwort, es handle sich um Juden, die im Bezirk Lublin angesiedelt >würden. >Braunschweig > >> >> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> tortured him into writing this): >> >> >> >> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> werden. >> >> >> >> [translation] >> >> To clear up all misunderstandings, I inform you of the following: >> >> ... a differentiation is to be made between those who can be finished >> off in the hitherto usual way, and those to whom a special treatment >> applies. In the latter case, we are dealing with circumstances that >> because of their degradation, their danger or their propaganda >> consequences, it is appropriate without regard to the person, to >> eliminate him through a ruthless procedure (namely by execution). >> >> [/translation] >> >> -- Nuremberg Document 1944-PS >> >> And here is what Heinrich Himmler wrote on February 20, 1942, once >> again long before there were Americans or Russians lurking about. >> >> >> >> Bekämpfung der Diziplinwidrigkeit >> >> (4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichsicherheitshauptamt >> Sonderbehandlung unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen >> Tatbestandes zu beantragen. >> (5) Die Sonderbehandlung erfolgt durch den Strang. >> >> >> >> [translation] >> >> Combatting adverseness to discipline >> >> (4) In especially serious cases, special treatment is to be applied >> for from the Reich Main Security Office by transmission of the >> particulars and the exact facts of the case. >> (5) Special treatment takes place by hanging. >> >> [/translation] >> >> -- Nuremberg Document 3040-PS >> >> and yet more: >> >> (5) Executions must not be held in the camp. . If the camps in the >> Government General are located in the immediate vicinity of the border >> the prisoners are to be taken if at all possible to former Soviet >> Russian territory for special treatment. >> >> -- Nuremberg Document 502-PS >> >> (6) By 1943, Himmler was so sure that just about everyone understood >> the meaning of the word "Sonderbehandlung", that he ordered it >> replaced in the Korherr Report on the Final Solution of the Jewish >> Question. Korherr had used the word on page 9 of the document. Here >> is what he received from Himmler's assistant. >> >> >> >> Der Reichsführer-SS hat Ihren statistischen Bericht über 'Die >> Endlösung der europäischen Judenfrage' erhalten. Er wünscht, daß an >> keiner Stelle von 'Sonderbehandlung der Juden' gesprochen wird. Auf >> Seite 9 muß es folgerndermaßen heißen: >> >> 'Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russichen >> Osten: >> >> Es wueden durchgeschleust >> durch die Lager im Generalgouvernement... >> durch die Lager im Warthegau...' >> Eine andere Formulierung darf nicht genommen werden >> ... >> >> -- Bundesarchiv, Signatur NS (neu) 1570 >> >> >> -- >> Gord McFee >> I'll write no line before its time >> >> Visit the Holocaust History Project >> http://www.holocaust-history.org >> From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:14 EDT 2009 Article: 2001573 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:29:27 -0400 Bytes: 2115 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001573 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:12:53 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned-canada >> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write >> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >> possible to keep this hater away". > >Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided financial >and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist group - >Hamas. > >The same result would apply to a person from Europe who did fundraising for >the LTTE and wanted to visit Canada for further activities. > > >HTH >-pk > The Toronto Star denounced the conservative government's actions in this case as ridiculous using the heading: Silly ban on British MP Quotation from the Toronto Star editorial page: ...The Harper Conservatives make us all look like country bumpkins. People who don't share their views aren't all hideous threats to the nation. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:15 EDT 2009 Article: 2001576 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <42nas4p8gk57p3b3u0umskiptutjjihr7j@4ax.com> References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:32:09 -0400 Bytes: 2176 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001576 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:53:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >news:eKCdnfvsXI6UoFjUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@supernews.com... >> "Heinrich" wrote in message >> news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned-canada >>> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write >>> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >>> possible to keep this hater away". >> >> Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided financial >> and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist >> group - Hamas. > >Listed as a terrorist group by whom, keenan? > >The UK has only listed the militant wing of HAMAS as being a terrorist >organisation. > In Canada, under the clown Harper, things are a bit more extreme. It is high time for the incompetent Harper regime to be swept away. This is a cynical Tory ploy to garner some of the votes of the fanatical pro-Israel contingent. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:15 EDT 2009 Article: 2001578 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> <640771a5-af42-4ebb-b73e-c9ef1f032512@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:34:23 -0400 Bytes: 1769 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001578 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:32:14 -0700 (PDT), george wrote: >On Mar 21, 5:35 pm, "Heinrich" wrote: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned... >> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write an >> open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything possible >> to keep this hater away". > >So a racist neonazi is having to pay a price for his claims... >Couldn't happen to a nastier piece of work.. What it shows is that the draconian "security legislation" in Canada is capable of gross abuse and needs to be repealed, sooner rather than later and that the incompetent Tory government of Stephen Harper needs to be swept away. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:16 EDT 2009 Article: 2001579 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Jews Deserved holocaust. Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72k45aFogbgnU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:38:05 -0400 Bytes: 1811 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001579 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:58:15 -0700 (PDT), Bing wrote: >On Mar 21, 8:16 am, "Heinrich" wrote: > > > >Yeah, some blockhead named Heinrich. > > >As if anyone cares what krauts think. > > >Some "master race". Always losing wars and getting your sorry asses >kicked. Actually, they have very seldom lost wars and have never gotten their asses kicked, considering that even with a better than ten to one numerical advantage it took their opponents almost six years to defeat them, all the while taking enormously heavier casualties than the German forces. Neither WW1 nor WW2 were particularly characterized by "glorious" performance by the allies. They bumbled forward by their sheer weight, not because of any skill or intelligence. > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:16 EDT 2009 Article: 2001584 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: I was going to post something, but then I thought better of it Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <25oas45pb6a5sapee1idg2fdv36373cjed@4ax.com> References: <710110d1-30c3-4ac2-8342-45e673f3ad47@e15g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <2YKdnR96YKxA0FjUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 514 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:50:46 -0400 Bytes: 34114 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001584 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:28:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >news:710110d1-30c3-4ac2-8342-45e673f3ad47@e15g2000vbe.googlegroups.com... >>I was going to start a thread on a certain topic, but thought better >> of it. I was going to compare the philosophy of David Duke with that >> of several prominent 'ethnic rights' groups. Then I realized just >> where it was I was living and decided against it. The CHRC is a grey >> organization. You never really know what's up with them cats. I >> guess I'll just have to live the Canadian dream(soon to be coming to a >> land near you!, if it's not already there)and zip up. > >A wise decision. > >Not sure whether you've seen this. I'm sure you'll find it interesting. > >http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10487 > >AIPAC North firms up its base > >As the Canadian establishment's support for Israeli Apartheid increased, the >GPC polls conducted for and relied upon by CIJA showed that public opinion >was lagging behind. The gist of their findings is expressed by a pair of >Globe and Mail headlines from around the time of the Martin's government's >pro-Israel epiphany at the UN: "Neutrality on Mideast favoured, polls find" >(Jeff Sallot, November 2004); "Canadians don't share Ottawa's pro-Israel >tilt" (Jeffrey Simpson, February 2005). Despite all UIAFC's talk of a grand >"PR offensive," despite reported CIJA meetings with newspaper editorial >boards, less than half of those surveyed (42%) considered Israel to be a >democratic state. Moreover, the rhetoric about "security" had not entirely >eliminated adverse reactions to Israel's open campaign of extra-judicial >assassinations and collective punishment of Palestinians. GPC found that >more than one third of Canadians (36%) believed that Israel was linked with >terrorist organizations. The polls found that the more people knew about the >conflict, the more likely they were to support the Palestinian cause. > >B'nai Brith public relations in this context were a reminder of why CIJA >strategists keep the organization at arm's length. Around the time the time >that these GPC polls were released, Adam Aptowitzer, Ontario chair of B'nai >Brith Canada's Institute for International Affair, went on record with the >following argument: "Terror is a tool, terror is a means to an end ... When >Israel uses terror to . destroy a home and convince people to be terrified >of what the possible consequences are, I'd say that's acceptable use to >terrify someone." He continued, in words that have been widely quoted: "the >truth is that terror is an option to be used by states in order to prevent >deaths of their own citizens and others. Acts that take place in Gaza and >[the] West Bank, you might want to classify them as terrorists sponsored by >the state. But when that is being done to prevent deaths, are we going to >say that is wrong?" Support for state violence is a mainstay of Israel >advocacy. But clumsy honesty reveals a lack of strategic sense, and >Aptowitzer was compelled to resign. His argument and agenda continued to >press forward through more subtle means. > >Poetry, libraries and the anti-Israel menace > >Given long-term Israel advocacy strategy and concern over popular opinion, >one strategic target was the school system. Where the Israel advocacy >apparatus had strong control, its pedagogical approach was already on >display. This was the case at the Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto >(CHAT). In the spring of 2003, CHAT students were treated to a visit by an >Israeli military operative. Second-in-command of a 600-soldier battalion, >"Major Alon Harel says the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) is fighting two >battles," reported the Canadian Jewish News, "one against terrorism and the >other against visuals that portray a Goliath army oppressing Palestinian >children." One CHAT student commented that Harel "probably doesn't like >those people with the orange identity cards very much," having learned how >Palestinians are identified at Israeli checkpoints. Harel insisted he did >not hate Palestinians, but explained that "he's even seen pregnant >Palestinian women trying to smuggle explosives into Israel and it has become >a challenge to convince soldiers to balance searches with civility at >checkpoints when they know their lives are on the line." Supporters of >Israeli militarism were thus cultivated at a young age. In fact, while CHAT >is at least a secondary school, even much younger children at Israel >advocacy events in Toronto - including many looking far ahead to puberty - >are often dressed up in Israeli military paraphernalia. > >But long-term support for a Canadian foreign policy pitted against >Palestinian human rights cannot be generated by internal community >indoctrination alone. CIJA went on the offensive. Expressions of sympathy >for Palestinian suffering or resistance in the public school system were >subject to attack. In November 2004, CIJA's Canadian Jewish Congress learned >that a performance at Toronto's Earl Haig Secondary School had "ended with a >poem about Palestinian oppression by Israelis." CJC officials demanded that >the Toronto District School Board (TDSB) brush up its censorship apparatus. >TDSB sent a memo to all of its staff warning that "sometimes trips, >performances and events that have been past practice for years may be >insensitive because of programming changes, etc." As the Canadian Jewish >News reported, "It cited as an example the presentation at Earl Haig >Secondary School by ARCfest, a group that organizes a five-day human rights >arts festival, which, the board said, failed to meet the standards held by >TDSB policies." The memo was to CJC's satisfaction. > >A few months later, the Israel advocacy apparatus caught wind of another >scandal: an elementary school student at an Islamic school in Ottawa had >written a story that featured Palestinian fighters as protagonists. This was >unacceptable; in the education system as in Israel-Palestine, Israel >advocates support Zionist militarism while demanding Palestinian passivity. >The student in question was a Palestinian child with relatives living under >Israeli military occupation with those "orange identity cards." Learning >that one teacher had assisted the student with the project, and that another >had marked it with positive comments, CanWest Global's Ottawa Citizen >attacked the school from its front page. The CJC demanded that the Education >Ministry launch an investigation, which it promptly did. The two teachers >were suspended and the school was subjected to a government probe. > >To cite just one further example from the elementary school system, consider >the more recent attack mounted in Ontario on the liberal children's book >Three Wishes: Palestinian and Israeli Children Speak. Author Deborah Ellis >made a clear effort to construct a sense of symmetry between the Israeli and >Palestinian experiences. Nonetheless, the basic relation of domination and >subordination that characterizes Israeli Apartheid was not sufficiently >downplayed for Israel advocates to be satisfied. B'nai Brith's League for >Human Rights demanded that "all copies of the books be pulled from school >library shelves immediately, pending a full review by the board of the >content and use of the book." CJC applied its own pressure, and was informed >that the TDSB "was pulling the book from the Ontario Library Association's >Silver Birch reading program and removing it from school and library >shelves. Children in Grade 7 and up will still be able to borrow the book >from a librarian or school office." The book was censored to a greater or >lesser extent in jurisdictions throughout the province. >Since public knowledge about the Israel-Palestine conflict results in >support for the Palestinians, CIJA had resolved to address the problem at >its root. > >Copyrighting Jewishness > >CIJA coordinated similar offensives in various spheres of Canadian political >life. In so doing, it could not rely solely on rhetoric about Israeli >security and Palestinian terrorism. After all, Israeli violence dwarfs >Palestinian violence in scope and intensity, and Aptowitzer's justification >of Israeli terror does not always fall on receptive ears. To proceed with >political force, Israel advocates were intent on maintaining the guise of >Jewish community representation. True, UIAFC's own president had gone on >record describing institutions like the CJC and CIC as "agents" of a >corporate fundraising system. And the fact that B'nai Brith had been made to >fall back on an independent fundraising base didn't make it much different >in this respect. Still, representing a nexus of corporate-U.S.-Israeli power >is not nearly as prestigious as representing the accumulated history of the >Jewish people. So Israel advocates continued to lay aggressive copyright >claims to the latter. > >The notion was bluntly expressed in a letter to the Jewish Tribune which >denounced Naomi Klein's position regarding Israel-Palestine: "Isn't it time >for the Jewish community to excommunicate her or at least have her cease to >be a member of the Jewish community in good standing?" UIAFC operatives toed >a similar line. On April 22 2004, for example, a Canadian Jewish News story >quoted Zac Kaye, executive director of Hillel of Greater Toronto, regarding >the situation at York University. "Kaye highlighted some of the stresses >faced by Hillel@York. 'Many pro-Palestinian students at York are Jewish,' >Kaye said. 'They're beyond the pale for us Jews and it can be quite >frustrating.'" The category "us Jews" thus required not so much Jewishness >as support for Israel. The confidence with which this definition has been >applied is remarkable. Consider, in light of Kaye's remarks, the fact that a >news story in the very next issue of the same paper began by declaring that >York University's "Jewish students are putting up a united and organized >front in promoting Israel." The story relied on quotes from Talia Klein, >then director of Hillel@York. > >It is worth stressing the extent to which this effort comes from quarters >that are not only Zionist, but chauvinist in the most extreme sense. At >York, for example, UIAFC's involvement (through Hillel) in the student >elections of 2003/2004 brought into the presidential office of York's >undergraduate student union the head of Betar Tagar's York University >chapter. (This individual had been a pro-war organizer and the host of IDF >Appreciation Day, mentioned above.) The Betarim are the youth followers of >Jabotinsky, the Zionist extremist who counted many open supporters of >Mussolini among his followers, and whose early call for an "iron wall" >between Zionist settlement and indigenous society would prove prophetic. >Walter Laqeuer, a leading and quite sympathetic historian of Zionism, >describes the origins of Betar as follows: "The stress on military training, >leadership, discipline, and the whole ideology of 'conquer or die' gave it a >certain similarity to the fascist youth movements of the 1920s and >1930s."[1] Talia Klein, director of Hillel@York through the height of CIJA >activity on the campus, became national director of Betar Tagar in May 2006. >Klein, formerly a national officer of the CJC and employee of B'nai Brith, >wrote her thesis on Jabotinsky's ideas. On the relationship between Hillel >and Betar, she told the Canadian Jewish News that "We're like two currents >in a river. Sometimes we join up and sometimes we don't. . we're not by any >means mutually exclusive." > >Israel advocates thus sought to redefine Jewishness as support for Israel, >with the organization of this support dominated by corporate power and >driven by politics veering to the ultra-nationalist right. > >Opposition to Israeli Apartheid was thereby smeared as anti-Semitic. As a >2003 Canadian Jewish Congress guide to campus advocacy put it (PDF p. 8), it >"is in fact anti-Semitic . to deny the Jewish people its right to >sovereignty in its ancestral homeland." To advocate the Palestinian right of >return, then, is in fact racist. Jews, so the argument goes, cannot be >subject to criteria that simply guarantee equal rights for all people >wherever they live. It is instead necessary to acknowledge a mystical, >overriding right to Palestinian land possessed by all Jews, as resulting >from a perpetual ancestral bond; and on the flip side, to reject the >residency and citizenship rights of the population indigenous to this land >and evicted en masse since 1948. To criticize the system of open-air >imprisonment maintained by Israel over the Gaza Strip, or to condemn Israeli >plans to annex West Bank territory and wall Palestinians into enclosed >ghettos (on the Gaza model), is itself to flirt with bigotry - to be guilty >of "functional anti-Semitism," as the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for >Holocaust Studies recently declared. What this Zionist argument lacks in >logic it makes up for through the force of resources and constant >repetition. In fact, the leadership of CIJA's CJC explicitly counted among >its 2005 priorities "working with partners to educate Canadians about the >links between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism."[2] >But it does not end there. Having been stretched to fit the most anti-racist >of Palestine solidarity activism, this elastic concept of anti-Semitism has >been expanded even further. Immunity from criticism is conferred on not only >an overriding "Jewish sovereignty" in Israel-Palestine, but also its >reactionary allies. Hillel of Greater Toronto's Zac Kaye implied a move in >this direction by justifying the arrest of key organizers of a March 5, 2003 >anti-war student strike at York University as follows: "police were needed >to protect Jewish students." Kaye was referring to pro-war Hillel organizers >working through the local chapter of the Canadian Alliance. The issue was >put more bluntly still by Canadian Jewish News columnist Lawrence Hart. As >the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq began to set in (and anti-occupation >politics spread), he argued that we need to take our cue from U.S.-Israel >advocates and call "attention to the forces of anti-colonialism, >anti-imperialism, anti-racism and pacifism as major facilitators of today's >anti-Semitism." > >The betrayal of anti-racist politics is both profound and explicit. > >Canada's U.S.-Israel lobby evolves > >In May 2005, the leadership of CIJA-PAC, CIJA's main lobby apparatus, once >again joined AIPAC for its annual conference in Washington, D.C.. Israeli >Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice were >both in attendance. The conference included discussion of foreign policy on >Iran as well as on Israel-Palestine. The Canadian Jewish News interviewed >Mark Waldman on the assembly: "Witnessing the way American lobbyists have >created a bipartisan political support for Israel and contrasting that with >the Canadian situation can be 'depressing,' Waldman said." But efforts were >underway to address this disparity. AIPAC's conference "included a one-day >event . aimed at helping Canadian and European communities develop the kind >of grassroots organizational strength that AIPAC has shown over the years." >That same month, Josh Cooper resigned from CIJA-PAC. > >At the end of 2005, Cooper re-emerged, now at the head of a new Canadian >lobby group, the Canadian Jewish Political Affairs Committee (CJPAC). Much >to the bewilderment of B'nai Brith (and anyone else with their eyes open), >CJPAC denied any connection with CIJA or CIJA-PAC. Meanwhile, CIJA-PAC >dissolved. CJPAC differs in important ways from CIJA's original and >now-defunct lobby arm. The new lobby is not "charitable" but political, not >"non-partisan" but "multi-partisan." It organizes direct financial and >political involvement in all Canadian parties and the election process >generally. It is worth recalling, in this light, the unprecedented >cross-partisan support for Israel on display in the election of January 2006 >(and since). Looking back on the election, the Canadian Jewish News reported >the new lobby's satisfaction with its work under the headline "CJPAC claims >success after federal election." > >Anti-Palestinian Canadian policy trends have continued to deepen since. A >dramatic indication of this was provided by the new Conservative government >of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, which, soon after its election, beat even >the Bush administration to the draw in sanctioning and cutting diplomatic >ties with the Palestinian Authority (PA) in punishment for the resounding >electoral victory of Hamas. The severity of this measure can only be >understood against the backdrop of Israel's effective sabotage of the >independent economic base of Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. >This sabotage, accomplished through restrictive military orders, border >closures and the like, forced broad sectors of Palestinian society into >economic reliance on the PA. The decision to suffocate PA finances in >punishment for the institution's shift away from Western-backed Palestinian >leadership threatens humanitarian disaster for a people among whom chronic >malnutrition was already dangerously widespread. Dov Weissglas, advisor to >the Israeli Prime Minister, generated some hearty official chuckles with his >joke about the situation: "It's like an appointment with a dietician. The >Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won't die." > >To justify Canadian participation in the effort, Harper has drawn from >Israel advocacy rhetoric in crude (and clumsy) ways. Harper has always been crude and clumsy. >In May 2006, for >example, the Prime Minister gave a speech at an event sponsored by the Asper >Foundation, B'nai Brith, CIJA, the CJC and the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal >Center for Holocaust Studies. He explained that Canadian suffocation of the >PA was necessary, as was diplomatic maneuvering against Iran. Iran and the >PA pose the same threat to Jews that was once posed by the Nazis, he >declared, and we most join the U.S. and Israel in fighting them as such. > >Harper's zealotry is on even more dramatic display around Afghanistan, and >his stance on Israel-Palestine cannot be attributed to domestic Israel >advocacy alone. Harper's days in government are likely numbered. His popularity and the popularity of his party is going downhill fast. I will throw a big party when Harper and his cretins are finally swept away. > While Paul Martin's Liberals were eager to show loyalty to >the U.S., the Harper government has taken this to new levels. Moreover, >ideology must play a part in determining the stance. Theodor Herzl's vision >of a proud Western outpost fighting off the barbarian, terrorist hordes of >the Third World resonates with the Harper brand of Canadian nationalism. As >leader of the Canadian Alliance, Harper had years ago embraced Israel as >"part of our western democratic family" and called for "a stronger sense of >Canada as a member of an alliance, a member of a family of western >democratic nations." Note that much of Harper's base is heir to a form of >Canadian nationalism that once solidly excluded Jews from its ranks. The >Conservative party's former foreign affairs critic, Stockwell Day, is >himself the son of a leading politician with Social Credit, the main >electoral vehicle for mid-20th century anti-Semitism in Western Canada. The >hangover of Social Credit anti-Semitism is apparent in the evangelical >Christian support base around Day, which would see Jews congregate in >Palestine only to be wiped out with the Second Coming of the Messiah. But >for now - with Palestinians as clearly excluded from Harper's happy western >family as those subversive foreigners from Eastern Europe once were - Israel >remains an ally. > >In any case, Harper is hardly immune to domestic corporate pressure, and the >base for Israel advocacy in Canada's economic establishment is undeniably >solid. Consider a recent National Post report on the Words and Deeds >conference co-hosted by CIJA and Toronto's UJA Federation in early 2006. >"Packed to the gills with Canada's banking elite and philanthropists," the >conference earned the Post reporter's praise as "the business event of the >winter season."[3] One of the conference's anchormen was Gerry Schwartz, >co-founder of CanWest Global, a fact which may have encouraged the Post >reporter's praise. Nonetheless, the event did showcase an impressive >foundation of corporate support. It was held partly in honour of Gord Nixon, >president and CEO of Royal Bank Financial Group. Nixon addressed the >assembled tycoons with confidence and pride: "CEOs are placed in a >privileged position when it comes to raising money, promoting institutions >and social causes and even influencing thinking on civic issues." It is not >difficult to determine where this privileged corporate Canadian influence >weighs in on the country's Israel-Palestine policies. > >Politically and institutionally, AIPAC North has firmed up its base. > >The anti-apartheid challenge persists > >But while Nixon may be right about the power of his class, the costs of >letting it dominate Canadian political affairs are prohibitively high - and >not just on Israel-Palestine. It is indeed interesting that just one month >after finance minister James Flaherty took the spirit of Common Sense >Revolution into federal government, eliminating the capital gains tax on >"charitable" gifts made in the form of shares, a CIJA tycoon donated a >near-record sum of $50 million to Toronto's UJA Federation. Policies of >economic suffocation at home and abroad reflect a linked agenda. As >recognition of this spreads, the challenge to Canadian support for Israeli >Apartheid continues to pick up momentum. > >A recent indication of this vitality was provided by the Ontario wing of the >Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), the country's largest union of >public sector workers. On May 27 2006, CUPE Ontario's annual convention >passed a resolution declaring support for the struggle against Israeli >Apartheid in clear and strategic terms. In identifying the Israeli system as >apartheid, CUPE Ontario highlighted the mainstay of this system, namely, the >continued denial of full residency and citizenship rights to Palestinians >displaced from their homeland since 1948. It also singled out for criticism >a pillar of Canadian support for this system, the Canada-Israel Free Trade >Agreement. CUPE's Resolution 50 went on to commit the union to joining in >the revival of the spirit and strategy which drove the movement against >South African apartheid, based on a call for boycott, divestment and >sanctions against Israel until apartheid is dismantled. > >Willie Madisha, president of the Congress of South African Trade Unions, >sent the union a message of solidarity via CUPE Ontario president Sid Ryan: >"As someone who lived in apartheid South Africa and has visited Palestine I >say with confidence that Israel is an apartheid state," Madisha agreed. >Outlining some of Israel's more egregious abuses against Palestinians, he >continued: "When the governments of the world turn a blind eye to these >injustices; when they are seduced by apartheid Israel's justification of >brutality through the pretext of 'security'; when they silence criticism of >state terror through the canard of 'anti-Semitism' - then it is time for the >global workers movement to stand firm against hypocrisy and double >standards." > >The call for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel having been >widely endorsed in a July 2005 Palestinian national declaration, the >Palestinian workers' movement united in sending CUPE messages of >wholehearted support. These were endorsed by the Palestinian General >Federation of Trade Unions as well as a wide range of sectoral unions. >Support (of varying degrees) came from a further range of labour and >community organizations, from the Nigeria Labour Congress to the >Steelworkers Toronto Area Council, from the Canadian Arab Federation and >Canadian Islamic Congress to the dissident Alliance of Concerned Jewish >Canadians. Certain voices in the Canadian mainstream echoed this chorus, >notable among them Linda McQuiag, and a dissident Israeli message of support >garnered a long list of signatories, including academics like Tanya Reinhart >and activists like Jeff Halper. Select messages of support are available >online at the website of the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid. > >The reaction from Canada's Israel advocates was predictable and knee-jerk. >B'nai Brith circulated a lengthy condemnation of CUPE Ontario and its >position, while CanWest Global widely printed the online address for the >denunciation through its National Post. The Post, as indeed the full range >of CanWest publications, directly joined the anti-CUPE campaign, running a >series of fevered attacks on CUPE Ontario and the union's president, Sid >Ryan (this included an article written by Israel's ambassador to Canada). >The National Post commentary editor himself weighed in under the headline >"CUPE's bigoted agenda," going into conniptions over the threat that >returning Palestinian refugees would pose to Israel's prized Jewish >demographic majority, and writing longingly of the day when the Canadian >government will "finally bust the nation's pampered unions." The CJC >likewise complained that Resolution 50 "reads like a piece of propaganda." > >The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies positioned >themselves at the front and centre of the anti-CUPE campaign. Bear in mind >that this organization had previously joined forces with Betar Tagar to >oppose the "Israeli Apartheid Week" that is spreading across Canadian >campuses, and that its president and chairman is none other than >CIJA/CanWest co-founder Gerry Schwartz. The Canadian Friends of Simon >Wiesenthal had already attacked the campaign against Israel's "Apartheid >Wall" for its "functional anti-Semitism," and predictably set their sights >on Resolution 50. The spirit of pan-imperial ("anti-terrorist") solidarity >framed the institution's public relations. This avowedly "anti-racist" >association declared that to support CUPE Ontario's position "is to turn a >blind eye to the very same concerns and fate that Canadians are combating in >Afghanistan and here at home." Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier has, >after all, pledged Canadian support for attacks on the "detestable murderers >and scumbags" of Afghanistan, so why fret over the treatment of their >Palestinian counterparts? > >At the same time, the Israel advocacy apparatus kicked into gear at the >grassroots level. For the likes of UIAFC, unionist legitimacy is hard to >come by, but an attempt was made. The effort to put a working class hat on >Israel advocacy produced amusing spectacles, as when Carolyn Roberts, >president of CUPE Local 2137, drew upon the fine tradition of labor struggle >in a National Post op-ed that blasted Sid Ryan as a "rabble-rouser." >Unfortunately, the quest for corporate respectability on the part of certain >labor leaders came through for the opponents of Resolution 50. Canadian Auto >Workers president Buzz Hargrove, for example - with memories of the Stronach >Castle (if not Schwartz's Fortress Onex) batting around in his head - dealt >a further blow to his own credibility by writing an article for the Toronto >Star which expressed "disappointment" in CUPE Ontario, while praising the >steps towards "peace and resolution of the conflict" taken by such "brave >leaders" as Mahmoud Abbas and Ariel Sharon. > >Nonetheless, despite Israel advocates' best efforts, CUPE Ontario has held >the line. The opportunity to build upon this success remains extremely >promising. >The Palestine solidarity movement has much work to do. The Canadian policy >package of support for Israel against the Palestinians - represented by >partisan diplomacy as well as by agreements like CIFTA, the CIIRDF and the >Ontario-Israel Memorandum of Understanding - is formidable. And CIJA, as >Gord Nixon pointed out, can take comfort in enduring support from the >Canadian establishment and its allies. But Canadian public opinion remains >very mixed, and pressure for universities, pension plans and other >institutions to adopt anti-apartheid policies can have an important impact. >Government opposition to Palestinian rights, for its part, may be extensive, >but is by the same token over-extended to the point of vulnerability. > >Challenges to this vulnerability will not go away. Those working to bring >Canada's Israel-Palestine policy into line with popular opinion, let alone >with demands for real justice, are not about to abandon their efforts. It is >unfortunate that these efforts will be smeared and opposed by mainstream >Canadian Jewish organizations. But it has become inevitable. The necessary >course of action is simply to expose, confront and undermine those >responsible for the smears, while escalating the challenge to their agenda. > >The Need for a Public Confrontation > >Samuel Huntington, a Harvard professor and loyal theorist of U.S. power, >once provided a bit of advice that UIAFC and CIJA appear to appreciate: "The >architects of power in the United States must create a force that can be >felt but not seen. Power remains strong when it remains in the dark; exposed >to the sunlight it begins to evaporate."[4] In avoiding sustained public >attention and scrutiny, Canada's Israel advocacy apparatus has indeed >retained its strategic advantage. Its base of resources cannot be challenged >in the immediate future; its limited public profile, on the other hand, can. > >This is not a matter of confronting an ethnic lobby. The racist imagination >has long conjured up images of Jews subverting governments or controlling >them, spreading communism or hijacking banking systems, and on down the >list. Such hallucinations must be exposed and rejected in the clearest terms >possible. Anti-Semitic diatribes about the mythical social power of Jews >form part of a terrible tradition of delusion and bigotry, and should be >denounced as such. >But people of conscience cannot allow opposition to anti-Semitism to be >reduced to a self-defense tactic for the Israel advocacy agenda. In >downplaying the actual influence of their lobby while hiding behind >disengenous rhetoric about "Jewish interests," Israel advocates find >themselves buttressing anti-Semitic myths, not weakening them. By masking >corporate and colonial structures under the guise of mainstream Jewish >organization, the Israel advocacy apparatus obscures the fact that far from >representing the Jewish community, it represents a limited (if powerful) >political hierarchy. Denying the activities or influence of the associated >organizations does not discredit anti-Jewish racism so much as it >legitimizes it. Internationalist politics, grounded in principled and >unwavering anti-racist and class analysis, remain the best defense against >genuine anti-Semitism. It is, in any event, exceedingly difficult to take >the Friends of Schwartz and Wiesenthal seriously as they try to lay claim to >the history of Jewish ghetto suffering, all the while cheering for the >open-air imprisonment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. > >The challenge to these maneuvers, and to the Canadian policy regime they are >designed to defend, is not going to come from within this country's economic >or political establishment. It is not going to come from UIAFC's "agents," >and it will be crudely smeared by the likes of B'nai Brith. Nonetheless, >many outside of these circles will persist in building this challenge, and >all people of conscience in this country have a stake in seeing it >strengthened. >Dan can be contacted at dfm@riseup.net. > > >References: >[1] Walter Laqueur, A History of Zionism (Schocken Books, 1976): p. 360. >[2] This tactic has been in international use for some time. See Norman >Finkelstein, Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse >of History (University of California Press, 2005). >[3] Amoryn Engel, "Business event of winter season," National Post/Financial >Post, April 15, 2006 (FW4). >[4] Samuel Huntington, American Politics (Harvard University Press, 1981), >as quoted in Noam Chomsky, "Domestic Constituencies," Z Magazine, May 1998. > >> From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:18 EDT 2009 Article: 2001709 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:27:53 -0400 Bytes: 3937 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001709 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:26:22 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/21/2009 5:21 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 06:32:08 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> news:u1ias411uvvp76tuapjjscfc3qgalvcv9i@4ax.com... >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >>>>> Holman) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >>>>>> Cramer" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >>>>>>>> culture >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >>>>>>>> has yet >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to know, >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >>>>>>>> decontextualized >>>>>>>> texts. >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>>>>>> feel-good >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >>>>>> when >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >>>>>> had >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>>> Wrong. >>> I see. >>> >>> So you speak German better than the Germans. You also understand the nuances >>> of the language of the day better than those native born Germans. >> >> The term "Sonderbehandlung" is not in itself sinister, and means only >> "special handling" which can mean pretty much anything you want it to >> mean. In the case of the German post office, its meaning is pretty >> obvious. Gord's sinister meanings are decidedly less obvious and even >> tendentious. > >You haven't a clue. Thus spoke the air head calling itself McFee. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:18 EDT 2009 Article: 2001713 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400 Bytes: 5476 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001713 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >>>>> Holman) wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >>>>>> Cramer" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >>>>>>>> culture >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >>>>>>>> has yet >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >>>>>>>> know, >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >>>>>>>> decontextualized >>>>>>>> texts. >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>>>>>> feel-good >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >>>>>> when >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >>>>>> had >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>>> Wrong. >>>> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >>>> tortured him into writing this): >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>>> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>>> werden. >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of Germany >>> at that. >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the German >> language. > >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly transliterations from English and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in official German texts of any sort, especially given that the National Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use foreign words if a German one was available. > >> He knows more about the language than those born to it, yanno. > >I know more than either of you two. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:19 EDT 2009 Article: 2001715 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 129 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:33:34 -0400 Bytes: 6270 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001715 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:31:36 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/21/2009 5:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: > >[...] > >>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>> assassinated in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans >>> could have tortured him into writing this): >>> >>> >>> >>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>> >>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>> üblichen Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>> handelt es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>> werden. >> >> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. > >Really? Is the reason why when I input "exekution" into Google and ask >for returns in German, the result is: > >"Results 1 - 10 of about 407,000 German pages for Exekution. (0.25 >seconds) " > >> The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds >> like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I >> rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things >> in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed >> a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when >> conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and >> outside of Germany at that. > >That wasn't what he was saying, and you would know that if you >understood German and English correctly. I understand both at the university level. You, like Kenneth, seem to be an uneducated buffoon. > >>> >>> >>> [translation] >>> >>> To clear up all misunderstandings, I inform you of the following: >>> >>> ... a differentiation is to be made between those who can be >>> finished off in the hitherto usual way, and those to whom a special >>> treatment applies. In the latter case, we are dealing with >>> circumstances that because of their degradation, their danger or >>> their propaganda consequences, it is appropriate without regard to >>> the person, to eliminate him through a ruthless procedure (namely >>> by execution). >>> >>> [/translation] >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 1944-PS >>> >>> And here is what Heinrich Himmler wrote on February 20, 1942, once >>> again long before there were Americans or Russians lurking about. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bekämpfung der Diziplinwidrigkeit >>> >>> (4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichsicherheitshauptamt >>> Sonderbehandlung unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen >>> Tatbestandes zu beantragen. (5) Die Sonderbehandlung erfolgt durch >>> den Strang. >>> >>> >>> >>> [translation] >>> >>> Combatting adverseness to discipline >>> >>> (4) In especially serious cases, special treatment is to be applied >>> for from the Reich Main Security Office by transmission of the >>> particulars and the exact facts of the case. (5) Special treatment >>> takes place by hanging. >>> >>> [/translation] >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 3040-PS >>> >>> and yet more: >>> >>> (5) Executions must not be held in the camp. … If the camps in the >>> Government General are located in the immediate vicinity of the >>> border the prisoners are to be taken if at all possible to former >>> Soviet Russian territory for special treatment. >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 502-PS >>> >>> (6) By 1943, Himmler was so sure that just about everyone >>> understood the meaning of the word "Sonderbehandlung", that he >>> ordered it replaced in the Korherr Report on the Final Solution of >>> the Jewish Question. Korherr had used the word on page 9 of the >>> document. Here is what he received from Himmler's assistant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Der Reichsführer-SS hat Ihren statistischen Bericht über 'Die >>> Endlösung der europäischen Judenfrage' erhalten. Er wünscht, daß >>> an keiner Stelle von 'Sonderbehandlung der Juden' gesprochen wird. >>> Auf Seite 9 muß es folgerndermaßen heißen: >>> >>> 'Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russichen >>> Osten: >>> >>> Es wueden durchgeschleust durch die Lager im Generalgouvernement... >>> durch die Lager im Warthegau...' Eine andere Formulierung darf >>> nicht genommen werden ... >>> >>> -- Bundesarchiv, Signatur NS (neu) 1570 > >Not a word about the rest, eh Johannes? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:19 EDT 2009 Article: 2001722 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:40:12 -0400 Bytes: 6656 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001722 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:31:36 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On 3/21/2009 5:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: > >[...] > >>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>> assassinated in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans >>> could have tortured him into writing this): >>> >>> >>> >>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>> >>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>> üblichen Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>> handelt es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>> werden. >> >> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. > >Really? Is the reason why when I input "exekution" into Google and ask >for returns in German, the result is: > >"Results 1 - 10 of about 407,000 German pages for Exekution. (0.25 >seconds) " I'll take your word for your Google search, but my small Oxford/Duden doesn't have "Exekution" at all, so it isn't a word in common usage even in today's German where foreign items count as fashionable. It is even less likely to have been used in a genuine NS document where even the word "Motor" was frowned upon as a foreign import. The word there was "Treibwerk" and "Telefon" was usually rendered "Fernsprecher". > >> The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds >> like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I >> rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things >> in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed >> a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when >> conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and >> outside of Germany at that. > >That wasn't what he was saying, and you would know that if you >understood German and English correctly. > >>> >>> >>> [translation] >>> >>> To clear up all misunderstandings, I inform you of the following: >>> >>> ... a differentiation is to be made between those who can be >>> finished off in the hitherto usual way, and those to whom a special >>> treatment applies. In the latter case, we are dealing with >>> circumstances that because of their degradation, their danger or >>> their propaganda consequences, it is appropriate without regard to >>> the person, to eliminate him through a ruthless procedure (namely >>> by execution). >>> >>> [/translation] >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 1944-PS >>> >>> And here is what Heinrich Himmler wrote on February 20, 1942, once >>> again long before there were Americans or Russians lurking about. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bekämpfung der Diziplinwidrigkeit >>> >>> (4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichsicherheitshauptamt >>> Sonderbehandlung unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen >>> Tatbestandes zu beantragen. (5) Die Sonderbehandlung erfolgt durch >>> den Strang. >>> >>> >>> >>> [translation] >>> >>> Combatting adverseness to discipline >>> >>> (4) In especially serious cases, special treatment is to be applied >>> for from the Reich Main Security Office by transmission of the >>> particulars and the exact facts of the case. (5) Special treatment >>> takes place by hanging. >>> >>> [/translation] >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 3040-PS >>> >>> and yet more: >>> >>> (5) Executions must not be held in the camp. … If the camps in the >>> Government General are located in the immediate vicinity of the >>> border the prisoners are to be taken if at all possible to former >>> Soviet Russian territory for special treatment. >>> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 502-PS >>> >>> (6) By 1943, Himmler was so sure that just about everyone >>> understood the meaning of the word "Sonderbehandlung", that he >>> ordered it replaced in the Korherr Report on the Final Solution of >>> the Jewish Question. Korherr had used the word on page 9 of the >>> document. Here is what he received from Himmler's assistant. >>> >>> >>> >>> Der Reichsführer-SS hat Ihren statistischen Bericht über 'Die >>> Endlösung der europäischen Judenfrage' erhalten. Er wünscht, daß >>> an keiner Stelle von 'Sonderbehandlung der Juden' gesprochen wird. >>> Auf Seite 9 muß es folgerndermaßen heißen: >>> >>> 'Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russichen >>> Osten: >>> >>> Es wueden durchgeschleust durch die Lager im Generalgouvernement... >>> durch die Lager im Warthegau...' Eine andere Formulierung darf >>> nicht genommen werden ... >>> >>> -- Bundesarchiv, Signatur NS (neu) 1570 > >Not a word about the rest, eh Johannes? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:20 EDT 2009 Article: 2001724 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk:- March 21, 2009 German leader don't want exterminate neither OPEL nor nobody Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <-K-dnQJsmft-JF3UnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <49c58985@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:51:55 -0400 Bytes: 5847 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001724 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:42:34 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >B.H. Cramer escribió: >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:u1ias411uvvp76tuapjjscfc3qgalvcv9i@4ax.com... >>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >>>> Holman) wrote: >>>> >>>> >In article , "B.H. >>>> >Cramer" >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>> >> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> > Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >>>> >> > culture >>>> >> > seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >>>> nobody >> > has yet >>>> >> > succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >>>> aspects >> > and >>>> >> > references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >>>> know, >>>> >> > computer translation only works for the driest and most >> > >>>> decontextualized >>>> >> > texts. >>>> >> >>>> >> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >>>> feel-good >>>> >> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>>> > >>>> >If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >>>> >when >>>> >talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* >>>> has >had >>>> >in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>>> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>> >>> Wrong. >> >> I see. >> >> So you speak German better than the Germans. You also understand the >> nuances of the language of the day better than those native born Germans. >> >> Well done, old feller. Your chutzhap continue to astound me. >> >> Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12 : >> >> >> DER bekannte, rassisch verfolgte Schriftsteller H. G. Adler, früher in >> Prag, jetzt in London, hat 1960 im Vorwort zur zweiten Auflage seines >> außerordentlichen Buches "Theresienstadt 1941--1945" geschrieben: "Es >> sei auch ausdrücklich festgestellt, daß die Bezeichnung Herrn Dr. >> Korherrs als 'SS-Statistiker' ... nicht stimmt, da er der SS nie >> angehörte und für sein Verhalten in den Jahren des Nationalsozialismus >> rehabilitiert ist." >> Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen >> Historikers Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die >> Zahl der Opfer des Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben >> vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir >> geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen. >> Die Angabe, ich hätte dabei auch aufgeführt, daß über eine Million Juden >> in den Lagern des Generalgouvernements und Warthegaus durch >> Sonderbehandlung gestorben seien, ist ebenfalls unzutreffend. Ich muß >> gegen das Wort "gestorben" in diesem Zusammenhang protestieren. >> Es war gerade das Wort "Sonderbehandlung", das mich zu der >> telephonischen Rückfrage beim RSHA veranlaßte, was dieses Wort zu >> bedeuten habe. Ich bekam die Antwort, es handle sich um Juden, die im >> Bezirk Lublin angesiedelt würden. >> Braunschweig > >German leader Volker Kauder doesn't want exterminate nobody anymore... > >Unionsfraktionschef Kauder - Keine Sonderbehandlung für Opel LOL You mean that they were not suggesting that Opel be gassed? > >... > >Kauder betonte, es müssten für alle Unternehmen die gleichen Regeln gelten. "Keine >Sonderbehandlung für niemand", verlangte er. "Jeder Arbeitsplatz ist gleich wichtig. >Auch bei Märklin und Schiesser sind Tausende von Arbeitsplätzen betroffen." > >Translation: > >Union leader Kauder - No special treatment for Opel > >... > >Kauder stressed, the same rules would have to be valid for all firms. "Any special >treatment for nobody". "Every job is equally important. With Märklin & Schiesser >thousands of jobs are also concerned." > >http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUKLL52861520090321 From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:20 EDT 2009 Article: 2001725 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Are The Jews To Blame For The Failure Of The German People? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <1m6bs4loq7svluqh069lap91opsjpjehu7@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:02:01 -0400 Bytes: 2138 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001725 On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:33:33 -0400, M. Laudhan wrote: >B.H. Cramer wrote >> >> Hate speech removed. >> > >So! You're Jew Kraut filth, are you! Don't try to censor me Zhid, or it >will earn you a beating just like the others. Fucking beer swilling sausage >eating pigs like you are weak. Not even mussies are as revolting as your >kind. > >Your not even allowed by your government to carry guns. American crackpottery is amazing. American imitations of the National Socialists are caricatures so extreme as to be absurd and totally beyond belief. The most extreme nutcases in Israel seem to be Jews from the USA. The most extreme NAZI caricatures seem to be neo-Nazis from the USA. The most extreme racists seem to be mental midgets from the USA. The most extreme narrow nationalists are air-heads from the USA. What the fuck is WRONG with the USA that it is such fertile ground for crackpottery of all descriptions? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:21 EDT 2009 Article: 2001901 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 141 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:02:44 -0400 Bytes: 6478 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001901 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:48:04 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > > >> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> transliterations from English > >Transliteration (which is what you do when indicating how a word spelled >in one alphabet is rendered in another one, e.g. Russian Bepa = Vera) is >the wrong word, you mean borrowing. And even if the German word is similar >to the English word, they both go back to a Latin-based legal metaphor of >considerable age. > >In some correspondence generated by the SS and Political Police in >Nazi-occupied Estonia the verb *exekutieren* is used as a synonym for >*hinrichten*. Perhaps, but it still amounts to extremely unusual and stilted German that virtually nobody would ever use. The only places I have ever seen it is in alleged documents such as the one you have shown, but then these are all documents that have been in allied hands and are hence suspect. There are too many phony amendments and outright forgeries in circulation to take much of this stuff at face value. > The extracts below are from correspondence held in the >Estonian State Archives (ERA) concerning the fate of three Jewish children >in late 1941-early 1942. > > >A request from E. Viks, chief of the political police at Tallinn-Harju >Perfecture to SS-Hauptscharführer Dürsam concerning actions to be taken >with respect to the Pliner children. >[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.18] > >Die Politische Polizei >der Präfektur Tallinn-Harju >29 Dezember 1941. > >Nr. 5880 An den > SS-Hauptscharführer Dürsam, > Reval > > Mit u/Heutigen teilen wir Ihnen mit, dass 3 Kinder des Juden P l i n e >r, Jüri (exekutiert) und seiner Ehefrau Sofie (Befinden unbekannt): > > David geb. 1934 > Siima " 1934 > Mirjam " 1927 > > gegenwärtig sich bei Elisabeth Litzenko, Nümme, Nurme 39-7, befinden. > Wir bitten Sie um Ihre Stellungnahme in dieser Abgelegenheit. > > [signed: E. Viks] > Chef der politischen Polizei > der Pr?›fektus Tallinn-Harju > > > >SS-Sturmbahnführer Seyler's decision of March 21, 1942 concerning the >fate of the Pliner children. >[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.16] > Reval, den 21.3.1942 >Der SS- und Polizeiführer >Der Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD. >Tgb. IV - P?›/A. Nr. 9/42. > > >An die >Politische Abteilung >z Hd. von Herrn W i c k s . >R e v a l > >Betrifft: Kinder des Juden P l i n e r . >Vorgang; Dort. Schr. v. 10.3.42/Nr. 5880. >Anlagen: Ohne. > >Die Kinder des Obengenannten mit Namen David, Siima und Mirjam sind zu >exekutieren. > >Frau E. Letinkov ist unter Polizei-Aufsicht zu stellen. > > I. V. > S e y l e r > >An extract from the dossier on the Pliner children reporting that they >have been executed. [ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.18]. > >Politische Abteiling Reval, den 28.3.1942 >der Pol. Pr?›fejtur Reval-Harrien. >Nr...... > >An den >Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD >beim SS- und Polizeif?›hrer, >R e v a l . > >Betrifft: Kinder des Juden P l i n e r >Vorgang: I/Schr.v. 21.3.1942, Tgb.Nr. 9. >Anlagen: 1 > >In Erledigung Ihres obigen Schreibens berichte ich: > P.1 - Ist befolgt > P.2 - Frau E. L e t i n k o v, ist unter polit. >Polizei-Aufsicht gestellt. > > Leiter der Politschen Abteiling > der Polizei Präfektur Reval-Harrien > > >On May 14, 1942, an opertive of the Estonian Security Police came to the >home of the Pliner children, made an inventory of the belongings that they >had left behind, and registered them as officially confiscated by the >German government. > > > >> and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in >> official German texts of any sort, especially given that the National >> Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use >> foreign words if a German one was available. > >True enough, but documents were written by tens of thousands of people of >various educational backgrounds. The German expression "eine Todesstrafe >vollstrecken" would be the normal leal terminology, but many German-German >dictionaries note that: "Exekution (lat. “Durchführung, Ausführung³) steht >für: im Allgemeinen als Synonym für Hinrichtung" [Source: >http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exekution]. The derived verb *exekutieren* >was and is sometimes used in a similar manner, as a simple Google search >will demonstrate. > > > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:21 EDT 2009 Article: 2001902 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 68 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:05:04 -0400 Bytes: 4306 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001902 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:20:44 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:d95bs4hcedca0c29mhm3h0a6e92fjf59kg@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:31:36 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >>>On 3/21/2009 5:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >>>> wrote: >>> >>>[...] >>> >>>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>>>> assassinated in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans >>>>> could have tortured him into writing this): >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>>>> >>>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>>>> üblichen Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>>>> handelt es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>>>> werden. >>>> >>>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. >>> >>>Really? Is the reason why when I input "exekution" into Google and ask >>>for returns in German, the result is: >>> >>>"Results 1 - 10 of about 407,000 German pages for Exekution. (0.25 >>>seconds) " >>> >>>> The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds >>>> like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I >>>> rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things >>>> in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed >>>> a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when >>>> conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and >>>> outside of Germany at that. >>> >>>That wasn't what he was saying, and you would know that if you >>>understood German and English correctly. >> >> I understand both at the university level. You, like Kenneth, seem to >> be an uneducated buffoon. > >Sadly, he's supposedly quite well educated, although, a disclaimer might be >required. Much of his "education" was earned in the Americas. You know - the >place where a Graduate Degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma in >Australia or Europe. > > The illiterate buffoon GW Bush was supposedly a graduate of Harvard, and he has trouble putting together a sentence. It really diminished that educational institution in my estimation, since it is clearly possible for somebody with an IQ smaller than his shoe size to simply BUY a degree there. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:21 EDT 2009 Article: 2001970 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: French Anti-Zionist party - The USA needs that, too Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <77511f73-0a4f-44d2-b09d-679b41916d1a@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <49bfd08f$1@news.x-privat.org> <49c41b77$1@news.x-privat.org> <49c67f80$1@news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 102 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:58:34 -0400 Bytes: 5322 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2001970 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:12:09 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >I'll Always Be 21-03-09 escribió: >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote in >> news:ccr9s45n92ltp6aj1n15ttvg16apm74eem@4ax.com: >> >>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:40:44 +0100, ZuLu wrote: >>> >>>> I'll Always Be 18-03-09 escribió: >>>>> "Boedicia@isp.com" wrote in news:c843a3be-00b4- >> 4422- >>>>> 8425-6a2f636de75b@s38g2000prg.googlegroups.com: >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 17, 8:32 am, ZuLu wrote: >>>>>>> Boedi...@isp.com escribió: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 15, 7:10 am, The Endeavor >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:26:29 -0400, Johnny B Jesus wrote: >>>>>>>>>> In an attampt to rid it's country from the contol of Zionist >> Lobby >>>>> Gr >>>>>> oups >>>>>>>>>> and organizations, France has launched it's new Anti Zionist >>>>> Politica >>>>>> l Party >>>>>>>>>> called "Parti Anti Sioniste." Below are the parties goals taken >>>>> from >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> translated page: >>>>>>>>> I can see that Jean-Marie Le Pen is in the group. I am not >>>>> surprised. >>>>>>>> Who cares? The French people's loyalty should be to France not >>>>>>>> Israel. There >>>>>>>> are far too many jews in places of influence in France as they are >> in >>>>>>>> every other >>>>>>>> country that has allowed them to settle. Sarkozy is mostly jew as >> are >>>>>>>> those he stuck in >>>>>>>> his Cabinet. Same thing happened in Britain when the jew Blair >> took >>>>>>>> over. As to the U.S. >>>>>>>> no explanation is necesary - U.S. politicians are terrified of >>>>>>>> offending the jew. >>>>>>>> "Should the Iraqi's ever cross over the Israelite border for >>>>>>>> agression, I would personally >>>>>>>> get in a ditch, grab a rifle and fight". >>>>>>>> Bubba Clinton who avoided military service in the U.S. during >> Vietnam >>>>>>>> and has the >>>>>>>> guts of a rabbit. >>>>>>>>> It is sick really, who said Nazism is dead! >>>>>>>> France has a very large jew population and always has. The j >>>>>> ew >>>>>>>> population >>>>>>>> before WW2 remained the same after WW2. One might ask why the Nazis >>>>>>>> didn't kill them all as they did in Poland according to the >> Holocaust >>>>>>>> market. Where did >>>>>>>> all those French jews come from? >>>>>>> There were 360,000 jews in France in 1942. There are about 600,000 >>>>> nowada >>>>>> ys. >>>>>>> France is said one of the most antisemitic country of the world. >>>>>> The French have long memories as does everyone else who has had jews >>>>>> foisted >>>>>> upon them over the past 2000 years. My point was why didn't the >>>>>> Germans deport >>>>>> and kill all those French jews in WW2? If they had done, there >>>>>> wouldn't be so many >>>>>> of them in France now. Are French jews different from Polish, >>>>>> Hungarian, Czech/German >>>>>> jews? If so, how so? >>>>> >>>>> If the Americans hadn't saved France in two world wars, we wouldn't >> have >>>>> to put up with them now. >>>> Americans only? >>>> >>>> A little presumptuous you are. >>> It is also rather air-headed. France, and most other European >>> countries, have been defeated from time to time, but they are >>> generally still here. All the Americans achieved was to increase the >>> carnage on all sides. With "friends" like the Americans, poor France >>> didn't need any enemies. >>> >> >> And with neighbors like germany, france would do well to deploy it's >> nuclear weapons. > >I am afraid that France didn't deploy his nuclear force because of Germany. In fact >De Gaulle main concern was to be a friend of post war Germany and to start the EC on >that strong basis. It seems that "I'll always be" is mired in another world and another time. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:22 EDT 2009 Article: 2002031 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:09:33 -0400 Bytes: 8104 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002031 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in ><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> > >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >> >>>>>>>> culture >> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >> >>>>>>>> know, >> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >> >>>>>> when >> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >>>>>> had >> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >>>> Wrong. >> >>>> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >>>> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >>>> werden. >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of Germany >> >>> at that. >> >> >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the German >> >> language. >> > >> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> transliterations from English > >I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. No words in English used as similar-sounding words in German that are permissible usage but extremely rare and unusual. It is, for example, possible to say "Television" in German, but "Fernseher" is much more common usage. > >> and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in >> official German texts of any sort, > >Yet, they do appear. I gave you an example by Heydrich and there was >no Nazi any more German than Heydrich. Different people use different >words. And as I posted elsewhere, "exekutieren" gets over 400,000 >hits on Google. Someone must be using it. > >> especially given that the National >> Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use >> foreign words if a German one was available. > >Here is a quote from the judgment in the Auschwitz trial in 1965 in >Frankfurt am Main: > > > >Auch diese Behauptung des Zeugen erscheint wenig stichhaltig. Im KL >Auschwitz wurden zwar viele Häftlinge ohne Wissen und Genehmigung des >RSHA getötet. Dies geschah jedoch in aller Heimlichkeit. Solche >Tötungshandlungen wurden nach aussen verschleiert, indem man auf die >Todesurkunden der betreffenden Häftlinge fingierte Todesursachen >setzte. Es ist jedoch kaum anzunehmen, dass SS-Angehörige vom KL >Auschwitz gewagt haben, ohne Genehmigung oder Befehl des RSHA >Häftlinge öffentlich zu exekutieren. Denn dies konnte dem RSHA nicht >verborgen bleiben, zumal nach öffentlichen Exekutionen keine >fingierten Todesursachen in den Todespapieren eingetragen worden sind. >Nach der glaubhaften Aussage des Zeugen Dr. P. wurde nach der >Erhängung von Häftlingen auf deren Karteikarte vermerkt: "Tod durch >Exekution." > > > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/auschwitz-urteil.shtml > >and from the Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial of 1958: > >Der Angekl. Fischer-Schweder ging dann auf Kreisleiter Gr. zu mit den >Worten: "Die Herren von Tilsit haben den Auftrag, die Exekution >durchzuführen; sie haben mich gebeten, ein Kommando der Schutzpolizei >für die Absperrung zur Verfügung zu stellen; es ist aber doch >lächerlich, wenn die Stapo und der SD Tilsit mit ihren paar Männern >eine so grosse Anzahl von Gefangenen allein exekutieren will; ich habe >mich deshalb entschlossen, die Exekution mit dem von mir angeforderten >Schupo-Kommando durchführen zu lassen." > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/einsatz-ulm.shtml From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:22 EDT 2009 Article: 2002032 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:13:56 -0400 Bytes: 8310 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002032 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in ><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> > >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >> >>>>>>>> culture >> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >> >>>>>>>> know, >> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >> >>>>>> when >> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >>>>>> had >> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >>>> Wrong. >> >>>> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >>>> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >>>> werden. >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of Germany >> >>> at that. >> >> >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the German >> >> language. >> > >> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> transliterations from English > >I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously started out life as an English text and were simply translated word for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the standard word order and word usage in German. A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the quality of the forgery was irrelevant. > >> and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in >> official German texts of any sort, > >Yet, they do appear. I gave you an example by Heydrich and there was >no Nazi any more German than Heydrich. Different people use different >words. And as I posted elsewhere, "exekutieren" gets over 400,000 >hits on Google. Someone must be using it. > >> especially given that the National >> Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use >> foreign words if a German one was available. > >Here is a quote from the judgment in the Auschwitz trial in 1965 in >Frankfurt am Main: > > > >Auch diese Behauptung des Zeugen erscheint wenig stichhaltig. Im KL >Auschwitz wurden zwar viele Häftlinge ohne Wissen und Genehmigung des >RSHA getötet. Dies geschah jedoch in aller Heimlichkeit. Solche >Tötungshandlungen wurden nach aussen verschleiert, indem man auf die >Todesurkunden der betreffenden Häftlinge fingierte Todesursachen >setzte. Es ist jedoch kaum anzunehmen, dass SS-Angehörige vom KL >Auschwitz gewagt haben, ohne Genehmigung oder Befehl des RSHA >Häftlinge öffentlich zu exekutieren. Denn dies konnte dem RSHA nicht >verborgen bleiben, zumal nach öffentlichen Exekutionen keine >fingierten Todesursachen in den Todespapieren eingetragen worden sind. >Nach der glaubhaften Aussage des Zeugen Dr. P. wurde nach der >Erhängung von Häftlingen auf deren Karteikarte vermerkt: "Tod durch >Exekution." > > > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/auschwitz-urteil.shtml > >and from the Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial of 1958: > >Der Angekl. Fischer-Schweder ging dann auf Kreisleiter Gr. zu mit den >Worten: "Die Herren von Tilsit haben den Auftrag, die Exekution >durchzuführen; sie haben mich gebeten, ein Kommando der Schutzpolizei >für die Absperrung zur Verfügung zu stellen; es ist aber doch >lächerlich, wenn die Stapo und der SD Tilsit mit ihren paar Männern >eine so grosse Anzahl von Gefangenen allein exekutieren will; ich habe >mich deshalb entschlossen, die Exekution mit dem von mir angeforderten >Schupo-Kommando durchführen zu lassen." > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/einsatz-ulm.shtml From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:23 EDT 2009 Article: 2002033 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:18:24 -0400 Bytes: 7320 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002033 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:55:28 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:33:34 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:31:36 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On 3/21/2009 5:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> > >> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> wrote: >> > >> >[...] >> > >> >>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >> >>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >> >>> assassinated in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans >> >>> could have tortured him into writing this): >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >>> >> >>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >> >>> üblichen Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >> >>> handelt es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >> >>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >>> werden. >> >> >> >> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. >> > >> >Really? Is the reason why when I input "exekution" into Google and ask >> >for returns in German, the result is: >> > >> >"Results 1 - 10 of about 407,000 German pages for Exekution. (0.25 >> >seconds) " > >No comment? > >> >> The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds >> >> like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I >> >> rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things >> >> in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed >> >> a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when >> >> conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and >> >> outside of Germany at that. >> > >> >That wasn't what he was saying, and you would know that if you >> >understood German and English correctly. >> >> I understand both at the university level. You, like Kenneth, seem to >> be an uneducated buffoon. > >Oh...oh, someone is annoyed and is trying to deflect attention from >the fact that he has no argument. > >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> [translation] >> >>> >> >>> To clear up all misunderstandings, I inform you of the following: >> >>> >> >>> ... a differentiation is to be made between those who can be >> >>> finished off in the hitherto usual way, and those to whom a special >> >>> treatment applies. In the latter case, we are dealing with >> >>> circumstances that because of their degradation, their danger or >> >>> their propaganda consequences, it is appropriate without regard to >> >>> the person, to eliminate him through a ruthless procedure (namely >> >>> by execution). >> >>> >> >>> [/translation] >> >>> >> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 1944-PS >> >>> >> >>> And here is what Heinrich Himmler wrote on February 20, 1942, once >> >>> again long before there were Americans or Russians lurking about. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Bekämpfung der Diziplinwidrigkeit >> >>> >> >>> (4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichsicherheitshauptamt >> >>> Sonderbehandlung unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen >> >>> Tatbestandes zu beantragen. (5) Die Sonderbehandlung erfolgt durch >> >>> den Strang. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> [translation] >> >>> >> >>> Combatting adverseness to discipline >> >>> >> >>> (4) In especially serious cases, special treatment is to be applied >> >>> for from the Reich Main Security Office by transmission of the >> >>> particulars and the exact facts of the case. (5) Special treatment >> >>> takes place by hanging. >> >>> >> >>> [/translation] >> >>> >> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 3040-PS >> >>> >> >>> and yet more: >> >>> >> >>> (5) Executions must not be held in the camp. … If the camps in the >> >>> Government General are located in the immediate vicinity of the >> >>> border the prisoners are to be taken if at all possible to former >> >>> Soviet Russian territory for special treatment. >> >>> >> >>> -- Nuremberg Document 502-PS >> >>> >> >>> (6) By 1943, Himmler was so sure that just about everyone >> >>> understood the meaning of the word "Sonderbehandlung", that he >> >>> ordered it replaced in the Korherr Report on the Final Solution of >> >>> the Jewish Question. Korherr had used the word on page 9 of the >> >>> document. Here is what he received from Himmler's assistant. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Der Reichsführer-SS hat Ihren statistischen Bericht über 'Die >> >>> Endlösung der europäischen Judenfrage' erhalten. Er wünscht, daß >> >>> an keiner Stelle von 'Sonderbehandlung der Juden' gesprochen wird. >> >>> Auf Seite 9 muß es folgerndermaßen heißen: >> >>> >> >>> 'Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russichen >> >>> Osten: >> >>> >> >>> Es wueden durchgeschleust durch die Lager im Generalgouvernement... >> >>> durch die Lager im Warthegau...' Eine andere Formulierung darf >> >>> nicht genommen werden ... >> >>> >> >>> -- Bundesarchiv, Signatur NS (neu) 1570 >> > >> >Not a word about the rest, eh Johannes? The "rest" wasn't under discussion. There are numerous errors in the text, so it is most unlikely to be an original German document, or did you type it yourself? It is, among other things, "russischen" and "würden" not "russichen" and "wueden". Many other allied forgeries are equally inept. > >And again, nothing substantive. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:24 EDT 2009 Article: 2002034 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400 Bytes: 5109 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002034 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" > wrote: > >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >> > >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >>>> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>>>> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means used to >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or that it did >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying what you >> >>>>>> don't >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on countless >> >>>>> occasions. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >> >>> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >> >>>> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >> >>> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more than one >> >>> occasion. >> >>> >> >> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >> > >> > You lying cunt. >> > >> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is the >> invariable response of a crank to either: >> >> a) Make personal insults, >> b) Change the subject, or >> c) Both of the above. >> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you won't even >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the idiocy of >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to yourself as well. >> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to what >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >> >> Do you? > >I have yet to meet a denier who does. Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? Nobody is denying anything. They just have a different view of an historical topic than you do. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:24 EDT 2009 Article: 2002036 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> <42nas4p8gk57p3b3u0umskiptutjjihr7j@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:29:01 -0400 Bytes: 3734 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002036 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:53:45 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:42nas4p8gk57p3b3u0umskiptutjjihr7j@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:53:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >>>news:eKCdnfvsXI6UoFjUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@supernews.com... >>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>> news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned-canada >>>>> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to >>>>> write >>>>> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >>>>> possible to keep this hater away". >>>> >>>> Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided >>>> financial >>>> and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist >>>> group - Hamas. >>> >>>Listed as a terrorist group by whom, keenan? >>> >>>The UK has only listed the militant wing of HAMAS as being a terrorist >>>organisation. > >And "Mr. Cramer" shows that he does not understand that the UK is not >Canada, or the US. > >> In Canada, under the clown Harper, things are a bit more extreme. It >> is high time for the incompetent Harper regime to be swept away. > >Except, of course, that they could actually get a majority government. LOL You're really out of touch. There is no longer a snowball's chance in hell of him getting a majority. > >> This >> is a cynical Tory ploy to garner some of the votes of the fanatical >> pro-Israel contingent. > >I think you're getting a bit ahead of the facts here. No, it just shows that Canada's poorly designed "terrorist" legislation is just too dangerous to be administered by some brain-dead neo-nazi Harper-Tory. It needs to be repealed and Harper needs to be put on trial for 111 charges of Criminal Negligence Causing Death (the offence carries life imprisonment) for the totally useless carnage among Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan where Canada has zero business, other than being lackeys for the USA. > >Galloway's problem is simple. He has publicly provided financial and >material support to a group that both Canada and the US have listed as a >terrorist organization. He wants to visit for purposes that apparently >include further support. > >LTTE fundraisers and supporters would have exactly the same problems in >entering Canada or the US. > >HTH >-pk > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:24 EDT 2009 Article: 2002037 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:33:02 -0400 Bytes: 3407 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002037 On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:55:44 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:tnmas4d91okobosc9e65vcep05vimoj0so@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:12:53 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>>"Heinrich" wrote in message >>>news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned-canada >>>> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write >>>> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >>>> possible to keep this hater away". >>> >>>Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided financial >>>and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist >>>group - >>>Hamas. >>> >>>The same result would apply to a person from Europe who did fundraising >>>for >>>the LTTE and wanted to visit Canada for further activities. >>> >>> >>>HTH >>>-pk >>> >> >> The Toronto Star denounced the conservative government's actions in >> this case as ridiculous using the heading: Silly ban on British MP >> >> Quotation from the Toronto Star editorial page: >> >> ...The Harper Conservatives make us all look like country bumpkins. >> People who don't share their views aren't all hideous threats to the >> nation. > >The issue is that Galloway publicly provided finanial and material support >for a group listed by both Canada and the US as a terrorist organization, >and that his visit is likely intended to provide further support. > >The Star's view doesn't change the fact that known LTTE fundraisers and >supporters would have exactly the same kinds of problems entering Canada and >the US. My interest is that the Toronto Star, my favourite newspaper, will contribute to bringing down this ridiculous right-wing government of gross incompetents whom I hold personally and individually responsible for the Canadian Afghanistan deaths. Tories deserve the firing squad for their actions, but we Canadians don't use such measures, so lengthy prison terms would have to do. > >It doesn't matter if the person is a rapper or an MP somewhere else. What >matters is their actions. > >-pk > > > > > > > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:25 EDT 2009 Article: 2002149 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 195 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:44:32 -0400 Bytes: 9849 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002149 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >>><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >>>> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >>>> >>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>>> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >>>> >>>> Ebersdorf >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >>>> >>>>> (Eugene >>>> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >>>> >>>>>> Cramer" >>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language >>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>>> culture >>>> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >>>> >>>>>>>> nobody >>>> >>>>>>>> has yet >>>> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >>>> >>>>>>>> aspects >>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >>>> >>>>>>>> know, >>>> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >>>> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >>>> >>>>>>>> texts. >>>> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>>> >>>>>>> feel-good >>>> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>>> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go >>>> >>>>>> along" >>>> >>>>>> when >>>> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >>>> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >>>> >>>>>> had >>>> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>>> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or >>>> >>>>> other >>>> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche >>>> >>>>> Post. >>>> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>>> >>>> Wrong. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>>> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>>> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>>> >>>> assassinated >>>> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >>>> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>>> >>>> üblichen >>>> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>>> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>>> >>>> handelt >>>> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>>> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>>> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>>> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>>> >>>> werden. >>>> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >>>> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >>>> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >>>> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >>>> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >>>> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >>>> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >>>> >>> Germany >>>> >>> at that. >>>> >> >>>> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >>>> >> German >>>> >> language. >>>> > >>>> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >>>> >>>> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >>>> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >>>> transliterations from English >>> >>>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> standard word order and word usage in German. >> >> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. > >Interesting comment. > >I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of the >Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. I got the same impression on reading this material. It looked like the work of some "mack snell" type of American whose command of German was of the same low quality as that of some drunken Polish peasant. > >Isn't that interesting? > > >Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused to give >them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and underwear >size. > >I felt that was a pretty good indication of their total paranoia and >desperation to keep their Holocaust(tm) thingie afloat. > > >> >>> >>>> and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in >>>> official German texts of any sort, >>> >>>Yet, they do appear. I gave you an example by Heydrich and there was >>>no Nazi any more German than Heydrich. Different people use different >>>words. And as I posted elsewhere, "exekutieren" gets over 400,000 >>>hits on Google. Someone must be using it. >>> >>>> especially given that the National >>>> Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use >>>> foreign words if a German one was available. >>> >>>Here is a quote from the judgment in the Auschwitz trial in 1965 in >>>Frankfurt am Main: >>> >>> >>> >>>Auch diese Behauptung des Zeugen erscheint wenig stichhaltig. Im KL >>>Auschwitz wurden zwar viele Häftlinge ohne Wissen und Genehmigung des >>>RSHA getötet. Dies geschah jedoch in aller Heimlichkeit. Solche >>>Tötungshandlungen wurden nach aussen verschleiert, indem man auf die >>>Todesurkunden der betreffenden Häftlinge fingierte Todesursachen >>>setzte. Es ist jedoch kaum anzunehmen, dass SS-Angehörige vom KL >>>Auschwitz gewagt haben, ohne Genehmigung oder Befehl des RSHA >>>Häftlinge öffentlich zu exekutieren. Denn dies konnte dem RSHA nicht >>>verborgen bleiben, zumal nach öffentlichen Exekutionen keine >>>fingierten Todesursachen in den Todespapieren eingetragen worden sind. >>>Nach der glaubhaften Aussage des Zeugen Dr. P. wurde nach der >>>Erhängung von Häftlingen auf deren Karteikarte vermerkt: "Tod durch >>>Exekution." >>> >>> >>> >>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/auschwitz-urteil.shtml >>> >>>and from the Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial of 1958: >>> >>>Der Angekl. Fischer-Schweder ging dann auf Kreisleiter Gr. zu mit den >>>Worten: "Die Herren von Tilsit haben den Auftrag, die Exekution >>>durchzuführen; sie haben mich gebeten, ein Kommando der Schutzpolizei >>>für die Absperrung zur Verfügung zu stellen; es ist aber doch >>>lächerlich, wenn die Stapo und der SD Tilsit mit ihren paar Männern >>>eine so grosse Anzahl von Gefangenen allein exekutieren will; ich habe >>>mich deshalb entschlossen, die Exekution mit dem von mir angeforderten >>>Schupo-Kommando durchführen zu lassen." >>> >>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/einsatz-ulm.shtml From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:25 EDT 2009 Article: 2002154 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <1h5fs45laesvoqjr3ebptd1aqqr1dul931@4ax.com> References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 217 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:13:47 -0400 Bytes: 11161 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002154 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:44:32 -0400, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> >>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >>> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >>>><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>>> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >>>>> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>>>> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >>>>> >>>> Ebersdorf >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >>>>> >>>>> (Eugene >>>>> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >>>>> >>>>>> Cramer" >>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>>>> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>> >>>>>>>> culture >>>>> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >>>>> >>>>>>>> nobody >>>>> >>>>>>>> has yet >>>>> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >>>>> >>>>>>>> aspects >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >>>>> >>>>>>>> know, >>>>> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >>>>> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >>>>> >>>>>>>> texts. >>>>> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>>>> >>>>>>> feel-good >>>>> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>>>> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go >>>>> >>>>>> along" >>>>> >>>>>> when >>>>> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >>>>> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >>>>> >>>>>> had >>>>> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>>>> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or >>>>> >>>>> other >>>>> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche >>>>> >>>>> Post. >>>>> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>>>> >>>> Wrong. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>>>> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >>>>> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>>>> >>>> assassinated >>>>> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >>>>> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>>>> >>>> üblichen >>>>> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>>>> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>>>> >>>> handelt >>>>> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>>>> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >>>>> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>>>> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>>>> >>>> werden. >>>>> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >>>>> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >>>>> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >>>>> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >>>>> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >>>>> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >>>>> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >>>>> >>> Germany >>>>> >>> at that. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >>>>> >> German >>>>> >> language. >>>>> > >>>>> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >>>>> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >>>>> transliterations from English >>>> >>>>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >>> >>> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >>> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >>> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >>> standard word order and word usage in German. >>> >>> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >>> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >>> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >>Interesting comment. >> >>I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of the >>Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >>opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. > >I got the same impression on reading this material. It looked like the >work of some "mack snell" type of American whose command of German was >of the same low quality as that of some drunken Polish peasant. > >> >>Isn't that interesting? >> >> >>Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused to give >>them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and underwear >>size. >> >>I felt that was a pretty good indication of their total paranoia and >>desperation to keep their Holocaust(tm) thingie afloat. >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>> and are EXTREMELY unlikely to appear in >>>>> official German texts of any sort, >>>> >>>>Yet, they do appear. I gave you an example by Heydrich and there was >>>>no Nazi any more German than Heydrich. Different people use different >>>>words. And as I posted elsewhere, "exekutieren" gets over 400,000 >>>>hits on Google. Someone must be using it. Apparently, the term is mostly financial and administrative and its use to mean killing people is relatively rare, at least in German. I don't suppose that you checked the context of your 400,000 finds. The term "Exekution" is a synonym for "Pfändung" which is the attachment of wages or the repossession of goods as a result of unpaid debts. Similarly, "exekutiert" does not usually mean killing people, although it can be used, rather rarely, for that meaning. Exekutiert generally means that some function has been carried out, such as a search warrant. The same usage exists in English. The search warrant was executed is typical English usage also. A "Reichsexekution", for example, does not refer to killing people but is the legal term for a federal takeover of a state which has not fulfilled its duties under the constitution, as happened to the Free State of Saxony in 1923 during a dispute with the feds. The current term is Bundesexekution, a feature in the current constitution which has never been used. >>>> >>>>> especially given that the National >>>>> Socialists were on a language purity kick and would not generally use >>>>> foreign words if a German one was available. >>>> >>>>Here is a quote from the judgment in the Auschwitz trial in 1965 in >>>>Frankfurt am Main: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Auch diese Behauptung des Zeugen erscheint wenig stichhaltig. Im KL >>>>Auschwitz wurden zwar viele Häftlinge ohne Wissen und Genehmigung des >>>>RSHA getötet. Dies geschah jedoch in aller Heimlichkeit. Solche >>>>Tötungshandlungen wurden nach aussen verschleiert, indem man auf die >>>>Todesurkunden der betreffenden Häftlinge fingierte Todesursachen >>>>setzte. Es ist jedoch kaum anzunehmen, dass SS-Angehörige vom KL >>>>Auschwitz gewagt haben, ohne Genehmigung oder Befehl des RSHA >>>>Häftlinge öffentlich zu exekutieren. Denn dies konnte dem RSHA nicht >>>>verborgen bleiben, zumal nach öffentlichen Exekutionen keine >>>>fingierten Todesursachen in den Todespapieren eingetragen worden sind. >>>>Nach der glaubhaften Aussage des Zeugen Dr. P. wurde nach der >>>>Erhängung von Häftlingen auf deren Karteikarte vermerkt: "Tod durch >>>>Exekution." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/auschwitz-urteil.shtml >>>> >>>>and from the Ulm Einsatzgruppen trial of 1958: >>>> >>>>Der Angekl. Fischer-Schweder ging dann auf Kreisleiter Gr. zu mit den >>>>Worten: "Die Herren von Tilsit haben den Auftrag, die Exekution >>>>durchzuführen; sie haben mich gebeten, ein Kommando der Schutzpolizei >>>>für die Absperrung zur Verfügung zu stellen; es ist aber doch >>>>lächerlich, wenn die Stapo und der SD Tilsit mit ihren paar Männern >>>>eine so grosse Anzahl von Gefangenen allein exekutieren will; ich habe >>>>mich deshalb entschlossen, die Exekution mit dem von mir angeforderten >>>>Schupo-Kommando durchführen zu lassen." >>>> >>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/german-trials/einsatz-ulm.shtml From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:26 EDT 2009 Article: 2002566 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:47:44 -0400 Bytes: 3931 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002566 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:45:31 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> > wrote: > >[...] > >> >>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> > >> > In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> > started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> > for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> > standard word order and word usage in German. >> > >> > A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >> > nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> > quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >> Interesting comment. >> >> I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of the >> Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >> opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >> >> Isn't that interesting? > >No, that is a lie. There was no such woman, and when challenged, you >folded like a tent. > >> Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused to give >> them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and underwear >> size. > >You were called a liar because you made it up. You could have sent me >the contact information in private, and I could have contacted her. I >have never revealed private correspondence and never would, and if you >decide to be honest, you will confirm that. But still you refused. > >I have told you a dozen times that the fact a document is written in >bureaucratic German (the Wannsee Protocol) or lousy German (the Harald >Turner memo) does not mean that the author was not a native German >speaker, but merely that the author wrote bureaucratic or lousy >German. > >> I felt that was a pretty good indication of their total paranoia and >> desperation to keep their Holocaust(tm) thingie afloat. > >Actually, it was the classic example of a denier, cornered, inventing >things out of whole cloth. LOL, Gord, inventing things out of whole cloth is more your province. > >[...] From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:26 EDT 2009 Article: 2002567 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <9nais4hbh789j225sqcrp68acvg3rdonht@4ax.com> References: <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:50:12 -0400 Bytes: 4521 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002567 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:26:11 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, in >> , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>> news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >>> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >>> > wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> >>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >>> > >>> > In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >>> > started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >>> > for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >>> > standard word order and word usage in German. >>> > >>> > A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >>> > nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >>> > quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >>> >>> Interesting comment. >>> >>> I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of the >>> Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >>> opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >>> >>> Isn't that interesting? >> >> No, that is a lie. There was no such woman, and when challenged, you >> folded like a tent. > >That is NOT a lie. And you goddamned well know it. >> >>> Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused to >>> give >>> them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and underwear >>> size. >> >> You were called a liar because you made it up. You could have sent me >> the contact information in private, and I could have contacted her. I >> have never revealed private correspondence and never would, and if you >> decide to be honest, you will confirm that. But still you refused. > >Again - She did NOT want any communication with you people. NONE. I told you >that at the time. She sounds like a smart woman. She clearly didn't want to be harassed, threatened, or have her house burned down. The holocaust™ lobby makes the Mafia look like Sunday school kids by comparison. > >You are a pathetic liar and creator of fairy tales, laddie. > > >> >> I have told you a dozen times that the fact a document is written in >> bureaucratic German (the Wannsee Protocol) or lousy German (the Harald >> Turner memo) does not mean that the author was not a native German >> speaker, but merely that the author wrote bureaucratic or lousy >> German. >> >>> I felt that was a pretty good indication of their total paranoia and >>> desperation to keep their Holocaust(tm) thingie afloat. >> >> Actually, it was the classic example of a denier, cornered, inventing >> things out of whole cloth. > >Nope. But you are indulging in exactly that of which you accuse me. > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:27 EDT 2009 Article: 2002568 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <5sais4dbglsm7eoj93ejdi013q35r1ckiv@4ax.com> References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 127 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:55:46 -0400 Bytes: 7387 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002568 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:39:19 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:13:56 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >> ><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> > wrote: >> > >> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> >> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> In article , "B.H. >> >> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language and >> >> >>>>>>>> culture >> >> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since nobody >> >> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the aspects >> >> >>>>>>>> and >> >> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed to >> >> >>>>>>>> know, >> >> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go along" >> >> >>>>>> when >> >> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >> >>>>>> had >> >> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or other >> >> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche Post. >> >> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >> >>>> Wrong. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say about >> >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was assassinated >> >> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> >> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher üblichen >> >> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle handelt >> >> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer propagandistischen >> >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >> >>>> werden. >> >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >> >> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >> >> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >> >> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of Germany >> >> >>> at that. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the German >> >> >> language. >> >> > >> >> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >> >> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> >> transliterations from English >> > >> >I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> standard word order and word usage in German. > >I am waiting for an example. You just presented some. What more do you want? > >> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. > >Actually, they were. The defence saw every document that was entered >into evidence at Nuremberg. LOL, Gord. In many cases they were not even told the charges, let alone be allowed to see documents. The validity of the documents was taken on judicial notice, so no disputation was possible in any case, including such pearls as the Soviet documents accusing German units of killing the Polish officers at Katyn. Everybody knew that this was the work of Soviet officials, but then the whole set of trials was a farce, so why let little details of historical accuracy get in the way of allied revenge? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:27 EDT 2009 Article: 2002571 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com> <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 164 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:08:05 -0400 Bytes: 8712 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002571 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:24:26 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:sshgs4lvcob13b7hrvngtsn39441j12d3j@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:13:56 -0400, in >> , Johannes von Ebersdorf >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >>> wrote: >>> >>> >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >>> ><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>> >> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >>> >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >>> >> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >>> >> >>>> Ebersdorf >>> >> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >>> >> >>>>> (Eugene >>> >> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> In article , >>> >> >>>>>> "B.H. >>> >> >>>>>> Cramer" >>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>> >> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language >>> >> >>>>>>>> and >>> >> >>>>>>>> culture >>> >> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >>> >> >>>>>>>> nobody >>> >> >>>>>>>> has yet >>> >> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >>> >> >>>>>>>> aspects >>> >> >>>>>>>> and >>> >> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed >>> >> >>>>>>>> to >>> >> >>>>>>>> know, >>> >> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >>> >> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >>> >> >>>>>>>> texts. >>> >> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >>> >> >>>>>>> feel-good >>> >> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >>> >> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go >>> >> >>>>>> along" >>> >> >>>>>> when >>> >> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >>> >> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >>> >> >>>>>> had >>> >> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >>> >> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or >>> >> >>>>> other >>> >> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche >>> >> >>>>> Post. >>> >> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >>> >> >>>> Wrong. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >>> >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say >>> >> >>>> about >>> >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >>> >> >>>> assassinated >>> >> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >>> >> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >>> >> >>>> üblichen >>> >> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >>> >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >>> >> >>>> handelt >>> >> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >>> >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer >>> >> >>>> propagandistischen >>> >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >>> >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >>> >> >>>> werden. >>> >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >>> >> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >>> >> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >>> >> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >>> >> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >>> >> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >>> >> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >>> >> >>> Germany >>> >> >>> at that. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >>> >> >> German >>> >> >> language. >>> >> > >>> >> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >>> >> >>> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >>> >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >>> >> transliterations from English >>> > >>> >I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >>> >>> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >>> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >>> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >>> standard word order and word usage in German. >> >> I am waiting for an example. >> >>> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >>> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >>> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >> Actually, they were. The defence saw every document that was entered >> into evidence at Nuremberg. > >But were unable to challenge any of it. No, all allied documents were considered "truth" by definition, regardless of how nonsensical they might have been in actual historical fact. The verdicts and sentences were decided months in advance at Yalta. The trials were merely to give the appearance of a judicial proceeding. Many of the people charged were NOT permitted to see the documents used by the prosecution. Defence documents, naturally, had to be cleared by the prosecutor, and anything that might work in favour of the accused was not permitted. The Nuremberg proceedings were so preposterous that they would not have been able to be used in any of the countries involved, except possibly the Soviet Union where farcical trials were the norm. Anybody in Canada convicted in a Canadian court that used the Nuremberg rules, or similar crap, could reasonably expect the verdicts to be overturned the same week by a higher court that used standard judicial practices. Nuremberg was a lynching adorned with judicial trappings, nothing more. The Nuremberg trials sully the whole field of jurisprudence, and when idiots such as McVay and McFee stupidly try to reference Nuremberg as "proof" of this or that, then I am absolutely certain that the dynamic duo is incapable of distinguishing their arses from holes in the wall. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:28 EDT 2009 Article: 2002574 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <5YWdnfT5iNnx113UnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@supernews.com> <7qm1s49enlbsh7vutu5j00rn09s684vjup@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:14:01 -0400 Bytes: 5924 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002574 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:42:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:7qm1s49enlbsh7vutu5j00rn09s684vjup@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:08:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>news:n1vsr4h5lpmdudrdg09lte50rdi72bubah@4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:56:15 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Bent Attorney Esq." wrote in message >>>>>news:bcc4476e-12e5-48b4-b76e-26dd4fbaf4f6@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>>>> death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>>>> Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>>>> mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>>>> understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>>>> about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>>>> lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >>>>> >>>>>Perhaps it's you who are mistaken. >>>>> >>>>>What if you are wrong, if Mr. McVay has actually done the research and >>>>>found >>>>>that the source materials are not convincing? >>>> >>>> Mr. McVay has no education and is simply not qualified to do any >>>> research. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Bacque certainly isn't convincing, as anyone who understands the way he >>>>>misues figures can plainly see. >> >> I don't know what you've been drinking, but Bacque is consistent with >> the experiences of German people alive at the time. Your stuff >> generally isn't. > >Water, and Bacque's treatment of the numbers is incorrect, as basic >accounting practices will show you. > >The problems in Bacques's use of numbers, where he has double-counted, is >not hard to detect. Even if you could show where Bacques made errors, it doesn't negate the several dozen other researchers who came to similar conclusions, including the German government of Konrad Adenauer which was repeatedly stonewalled by the allies when it tried to find out what happened to the 1.8 million soldiers who were missing in 1950 but who were known to have been alive on 08-MAY-1945. Personally, I no longer feel the slightest sympathy when I read of the Vietnamese, Iraqis, or whomever killing or maiming American captives. The Americans have really quite dirty hands themselves and have no right to whine about the alleged transgressions of others. > > >> >>>> >>>> Why would Bacque do that, >>> >>>Because he either doesn't know how to count, or is attempting to mislead. >> >> He has no reason to mislead anybody and nothing to gain. > >So you assert. > >The question is, what do you base your assertion on? It doesn't appear to >be facts. > >> >>> >>>> since he is an impartial Canadian with no >>>> axe to grind on this subject? >>> >>>You're rather making an assumption there, aren't you? >> >> Having read his books, all of which make perfectly good sense > >Unless you examine the *numbers* that are central to his argument..... > >> and are >> consistent with the experiences of various German people I know, I >> would have to disagree that there are any big assumptions here. > >Again, use of basic accounting practices will show why Bacque, and you, are >wrong. > >And again: If Bacque is right, where are the graves? > >-pk > > >> >>> >>>> I understand why employees of the >>>> holocaustT industry would tend towards certain conclusions, the same >>>> way as tobacco executives claimed for years that smoking cigarettes >>>> was harmless or even beneficial. He who pays the piper calls the tune, >>>> as the old saying goes. McVay is paid by the industry and he says >>>> exactly what I would expect an employee of the industry to say. >>> >>>So. Where are the graves? >>> >>>How do you explain the problems with Bacque's arithmetic? How to you >>>explain away his double-counting? >>> >>>And most importantly, where are the bodies? >>> >>>I suggest that if you caught a mainstream historian being as outrageously >>>sloppy or misleading as Bacque is, you'd be screaming that the Holocaust >>>has no foundation. >>> >>>But, you seem more than willing to accept Bacque. Why is that? >>> >>>-pk >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>And where are the graves? We know where many of the Nazi death camp >>>>>graves are, so where are the graves from these Allied camps you claim? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:28 EDT 2009 Article: 2002575 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:17:48 -0400 Bytes: 3420 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002575 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:51:06 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: > >; "please" wrote in message >news:gpqnmf$od1$1@pcls6.std.com... >> In article , >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >>> wrote: >> >>>> What death camps? >> >>> There were numerous places along the banks of the Rhine where millions >>> were kept imprisoned on open meadows without shelter or food. >> >> Bullshit. The German POWs received food just like everyone else >> in Europe did. About 1% of them died. >> >>>>Where are the bodies? >> >>> The Americans carted them off in dump trucks each morning >> >> Proof? >> >>> and they are >>> very unlikely to have given them a decent burial where burial sites >>> could be found today. >> >> No corpses, huh? No scientific evidence, huh? No order to >> exterminate these German POWs, huh? >> >> What rot. > >It's very interesting that Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" are more >than ready to provide and accept pure speculation and invention to support >theories that are shown to be internally inconsistent (for example, Bacques' >use of double counting), and don't even notice that they do not accept the >same kind of invention and speculation when they think they see it in >accepted history. > >This illustrates another reason why rational people reject Holocaust denial >and "revisionism". Rational people do not tend to accept contradictory >ideas or standards as true or correct. It's amazing how easy it is to >prompt Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" into doing exactly that. The burial sites have been found near the sites of the American camps, but while the totals dramatically exceed the allied claims of prisoners losses, they do fall short of Bacques' estimates. In any case, the shell game would be hard to unravel since the Americans like to loan out their prisoners as slaves to the French, the Yugoslavs, and others, where there were very large fatality rates. > >-pk > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:29 EDT 2009 Article: 2002577 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:24:31 -0400 Bytes: 4169 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002577 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:44:09 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:n3n1s4l9577n7b6ormghv6mdrhkcgub170@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>news:4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>>>death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>>>Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>>>mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>>>understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>>>about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>>>lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >>>> >>>> It is McVay's denial of Ike's camps and various other examples of >>>> allied crimes that convinced me that he is quite insincere and that >>>> his other historical claims are probably also bogus. >>> >>> >>>What death camps? >> >> There were numerous places along the banks of the Rhine where millions >> were kept imprisoned on open meadows without shelter or food. >> Relatives were threatened with execution if they brought any food for >> the captives. The allegedly "noble" allies fall really far short of >> the mark. >> >>> >>>Where are the bodies? >> >> The Americans carted them off in dump trucks each morning > >And you base this on, what, exactly? > >Where is the evidence that this happened? > >How many dump trucks would be required, and where are the witnesses? > >> and they are >> very unlikely to have given them a decent burial where burial sites >> could be found today. > >So where are they? > >How many dump trucks did you say were used? Where are the records of these >trucks? > >And where are the witnesses? > >Could you stop making things up and present facts for once? There were thousands of witnesses to these atrocities, including some relatives of mine. There is a very large discrepancy between the number of German military personnel known to have been alive and healthy when the war ended, and the number that returned home by 1956. Not all of them were murdered in Ike's camps to be sure, but huge numbers were. Many of the grave sites have been found, yielding results lower than Bacques' estimates, but significantly higher than the allied claims of prisoner losses. > >-pk > > >> >>> >>>How do you explain the gross errors in Bacque's arithmetic and his refusal >>>to correct them? >> >> What errors are those? His findings make sense and they are consistent >> with the experiences of people who lived during that time. >> >>> >>> >>> >>> > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:29 EDT 2009 Article: 2002579 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Germany ups funds for Shoah survivors' Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <3ucis4l32ncukfjck8b4m2vovbutb0np2u@4ax.com> References: <72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net> <72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net> <%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> <72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:30:39 -0400 Bytes: 4397 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002579 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:28:06 -0700, "ÇDoügßT" wrote: >"Heinrich" wrote in message >news:72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net... >> >> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >> news:%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>> news:72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> >>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>> news:iWIwl.16090$as4.10782@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>> news:72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> The Jewish Claims Conference said it won a promise Thursday from the >>>>>> German government to increase funding to elderly Holocaust survivors >>>>>> in eastern Europe. >>>>>> >>>>>> German officials promised to increase monthly payments from ?178 >>>>>> ($235) to ?240 ($315) for survivors in some of the poorest eastern >>>>>> European countries, such as Ukraine, said Roman Kent, a negotiator for >>>>>> the claims conference. >>>>>> >>>>>> Those in relatively wealthier eastern countries now in the European >>>>>> Union, such as Poland, will see their payments rise from ?216 ($295) >>>>>> to ?240 ($328), he said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kent said the breakthrough came Thursday during meetings with >>>>>> representatives of Germany's Finance Ministry. >>>>>> >>>>>> He called it a "measure of some justice" for a group that often lives >>>>>> mired in poverty. Poles have always lived in poverty. It isn't the responsibility of the German taxpayer to fund these layabouts. >>>>>> >>>>>> The goal, he said, is to make the lives of the Nazi victims, most of >>>>>> whom are now in their 80s or 90s "a little easier in the twilight of >>>>>> their lives." >>>>>> >>>>>> Those living in impoverished parts of eastern Europe often lack food, >>>>>> medicine and even coal, wood or gas to heat their homes. In many case, >>>>>> they lost siblings or other relatives in the Holocaust, and lack >>>>>> family support, he said. >>>>>> >>>>>> Attempts by The Associated Press to reach the Finance Ministry by >>>>>> phone for comment went unanswered late Thursday. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Waaaaaaaaaaaa, the Eurotrash bitch whines again. How much longer do you >>>>> think these payments are going to have to go on retard? Hint: it ain't >>>>> gonna >>>>> be much longer than a decade at most. >>>>> >>>> this is going on for too long a period of time.somebody in germany >>>> should rise and tell the jew to fuck it >>> >>> I'll bet the costs associated w/this are insignificant nazi bitch. >>> >> i donot think so on the other hand the jews are after the last penny they >> canbn get from the germans, they are never satisfied > >Are you afraid the cost is going to reduce your welfare cheque? Are you not being inconsistent here, championing welfare gifts for one group but saying that it is shameful for others? Adenauer made a large mistake in giving any of these gold-diggers any money, but then I'm not aware of what arm-twisting the allies had done to make him do this. For my taste, I don't owe these people such much as a single red Pfennig. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:29 EDT 2009 Article: 2002580 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com> References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 42 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:36:21 -0400 Bytes: 2720 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002580 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> "Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >> >> news:KcednZ3XqKnp3ljUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@supernews.com... >> >> > "Tim Miller" wrote in message >> >news:gq3el2$dme$3@news.motzarella.org... >> >> Topaz wrote: >> >>>      During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in >> >>> concentration camps. >> >> >> Then we kicked the nazi's worthless asses and set their >> >> prisoners free. >> >> > One might also note that there are very, very few valid comparisons >> > between Nazi and North American concentration camps. >> >> Only because you cunts wrote the history. >> >> >> >> > One might also note that North Americans did not have the other types of >> > camps that the Nazis relied on - the slave labour and death camps. >> >> What death camps? > Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. No Jews would have died in concentration camps had the allies not launched WW2. This was a totally unnecessary war. The so-called holocaust™ is a consequence of WW2, not the other way around. The holocaust™ industry has ballooned the importance of the persecution of Jews during this period beyond all reasonable bounds. It seems that a 2,000 page book about WW2 would reasonably contain one or two pages about Jews, not the 1999 that the holocaust™ industry would deem appropriate. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:30 EDT 2009 Article: 2002581 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:44:46 -0400 Bytes: 1729 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002581 On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:22:00 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 21, 10:03 am, Topaz wrote: >> During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in >> concentration camps. > And murdered them. > >> The USA locked also up the Japanese and their >> political opponents and for less reason. > And did NOT murder them. You seem to be an apologist for American injustices. Many of the people incarcerated did die in captivity, and that for having done nothing to anybody. The episode did prove that American citizenship is essentially worthless and no protection against injustice. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:30 EDT 2009 Article: 2002604 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> <979f1a7b-3729-45c3-a472-ae19d8d52ee2@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:55:28 -0400 Bytes: 4004 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002604 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:09:27 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >On Mar 22, 9:33 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:55:44 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >news:tnmas4d91okobosc9e65vcep05vimoj0so@4ax.com... >> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:12:53 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> >> wrote: >> >> >>>"Heinrich" wrote in message >> >>>news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >> >>>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned... >> >>>> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write >> >>>> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >> >>>> possible to keep this hater away". >> >> >>>Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided financial >> >>>and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist >> >>>group - >> >>>Hamas. >> >> >>>The same result would apply to a person from Europe who did fundraising >> >>>for >> >>>the LTTE and wanted to visit Canada for further activities. >> >> >>>HTH >> >>>-pk >> >> >> The Toronto Star denounced the conservative government's actions in >> >> this case as ridiculous using the heading: Silly ban on British MP >> >> >> Quotation from the Toronto Star editorial page: >> >> >> ...The Harper Conservatives make us all look like country bumpkins. >> >> People who don't share their views aren't all hideous threats to the >> >> nation. >> >> >The issue is that Galloway publicly provided finanial and material support >> >for a group listed by both Canada and the US as a terrorist organization, >> >and that his visit is likely intended to provide further support. >> >> >The Star's view doesn't change the fact that known LTTE fundraisers and >> >supporters would have exactly the same kinds of problems entering Canada and >> >the US. >> >> My interest is that the Toronto Star, my favourite newspaper, will >> contribute to bringing down this ridiculous right-wing government of >> gross incompetents whom I hold personally and individually responsible >> for the Canadian Afghanistan deaths. Tories deserve the firing squad >> for their actions, but we Canadians don't use such measures, so >> lengthy prison terms would have to do. >> > >Johannes: I'm not a Tory, but remember that it was the Liberals who >first sent our troops into Afghanistan. Yes, but that was in a constructive role, not as military lackeys for Busheviks. > >> >> >> >It doesn't matter if the person is a rapper or an MP somewhere else.  What >> >matters is their actions. >> >> >-pk From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:31 EDT 2009 Article: 2002605 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <60140d07-9895-4b55-9a8d-df9654de1603@s12g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <9740f73e-690c-4d59-b8af-40e34f11b90c@v35g2000pro.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:57:35 -0400 Bytes: 2097 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002605 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:31:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 23, 10:05 pm, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> "Michael Ejercito" wrote in message >> >> news:60140d07-9895-4b55-9a8d-df9654de1603@s12g2000prc.googlegroups.com... >> On Mar 21, 11:20 am, Tim Miller >> wrote: >> >> > Topaz wrote: >> >> > > During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in >> > > concentration camps. >> >> >> Then we kicked the nazi's worthless asses and set their >> >> prisoners free. >> >   The following link explains what Topaz is all about. >> >> Link to fantasy land snipped. > You could have learned something by going to the site. I've seen all their crap countless time before, and it doesn't become any more convincing on repetition. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:31 EDT 2009 Article: 2002635 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <5h2js4pa4sqvflsjuh5l5lrvlnqndhost1@4ax.com> References: <49c3a3c3$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c43b60$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c59230$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c6bbc4$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <5njhs4hf2e70jldji9lu3oae9a1b4mr73t@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 82 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:35:11 -0400 Bytes: 5279 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002635 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:30:48 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> news:49c6bbc4$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> > >> > "Topaz" wrote in message >> > news:u5ncs4lnt4jsjo71qeecqbd5243kktmeas@4ax.com... >> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:19:43 +1100, "Peter Webb" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>"Topaz" wrote in message >> >>>news:gh6as4hfa4dao3vq6sghrk31fqf1i5o8vb@4ax.com... >> >>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:56:41 +1100, "Peter Webb" >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>>So if they weren't killed by the Nazis, what happened to the Jews of >> >>>>>Europe? >> >>>>>Where were they all living in 1946 ? >> >>>> >> >>>> Regardless of how you define a Jew, the statistics about the Jewish >> >>>> world population are very contradictory and suspect from the very >> >>>> beginning because the figures are more often than not furnished by the >> >>>> Jewish organizations, which evidently have to respect the Holocaust >> >>>> dogma according to which roughly one third of the Jews were >> >>>> exterminated during World War Two. The leading pre-war expert on >> >>>> Jewish population statistics, Arthur Ruppin, stated that there were >> >>>> 16.7 million Jews in the world in 1939 (13). For the immediate postwar >> >>>> years, the World Almanac gave the following figures: 15.19 million in >> >>>> 1945 and 15.7 million in the following four years, from 1946 to >> >>>> 1949. But it its 1949 issue, the World Almanac quoted the figures >> >>>> furnished by the American Jewish committee according to which there >> >>>> had been 16.6 million Jews in 1939 and only 11.2 million in 1947 (14). >> >>>> On the other hand, in an article published in the Jewish-owned New >> >>>> York Times in early 1948, Hanson Baldwin, a military expert and >> >>>> specialist on Palestine, stated that there were between 15 and 18 >> >>>> million Jews worldwide... >> >>>> >> >>>> "In other words, "statistics" from Jewish organizations tend to >> >>>> "prove" that 5 to 6 million died or disappeared during WWII (surprise >> >>>> surprise), while those from more neutral sources show that the Jewish >> >>>> world population remained about the same, or increased slightly, over >> >>>> the war years." >> >>> >> >>>This is, of course, a crap methodology. There are doubts about the total >> >>>world population of Jews today, but if 6 million disappeared we would >> >>>certainly notice. >> >>> >> >>>However, you state that: >> >>> >> >>>"while those from more neutral sources show that the Jewish world >> >>>population >> >>>remained about the same, or increased slightly, over the war years." >> >>> >> >>>I did not see any justification for this key claim. >> >>> >> >>>What "neutral source" claims that the the Jewish world population >> >>>remained >> >>>about the same, or increased slightly, over the war years? I saw no such >> >>>source listed, and its the foundation of your claim. >> >>> >> >>>So, exactly which source said this, or produced figures to this effect? >> >> >> >> You only the word of Jews that there were 6 million less of them. >> >> And Jews are liars. Here is proof: >> > >> > Rather than change the subject (a typical crank tactic), how about an >> > on-topic response? >> >> Off topic shite and pathetic attempt to change the subject snipped. > >Classic Cramer approach when deniers are challenged to support their >claims - delete the challenge. Not at all, gourd. People just delete the litter you scatter all over this newsgroup. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:31 EDT 2009 Article: 2002637 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Treblinka "Death Camp" Hoax - No Elephant Here Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49bf576d$0$4046$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <-NWdnXVj5_inoV3UnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@vex.net> <6IydnRh8evCzP13UnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com> <9idds4pnrvk3jot1hof0j0ir1s30e7v9ru@4ax.com> <-didne9wPqd-s1rUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:33:19 -0400 Bytes: 5253 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002637 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:40:24 +1000, in ><-didne9wPqd-s1rUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:9idds4pnrvk3jot1hof0j0ir1s30e7v9ru@4ax.com... >> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:04:47 +1000, in >> > , "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> news:K2gxl.63266$rp7.24845@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> > On 3/20/2009 3:06 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> >> news:ojm4s4ho248l2d2utvaf15kd59g0q3cvpb@4ax.com... >> >> >>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:25:59 +1000, in >> >> >>> <6IydnRh8evCzP13UnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> >> >>>> news:-NWdnXVj5_inoV3UnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@vex.net... >> >> >>>>> In article <49bf576d$0$4046$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, Peter >> >> >>>>> Webb >> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> "Al Smith" wrote in message >> >> >>>>>> news:RIDvl.17096$Db2.845@edtnps83... >> >> >>>>> [...] >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> It seems to me that if the estimate of the number of dead >> >> >>>>>>> can vary by 2.5 million, then the estimate wasn't worth >> >> >>>>>>> spit to begin with. >> >> >>>>>> Sure. It was worthless at the beginning, until historians >> >> >>>>>> started to perform actual counts instead of making guesses. >> >> >>>>> Actually, Western historians never accepted the Soviet figure >> >> >>>>> of 4 million dead at Auschwitz-Birkenau. >> >> >>>> Why didn't they correct Hollywood, the documentary makers and the >> >> >>>> writers of educational texts, lying cunt? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> What was there to correct? Please give supported, referenced, >> >> >>> verifiable examples because your say-so doesn't cut it. Off you >> >> >>> go. >> >> >> >> >> >> Right after you provide the names, dates of birth, and underwear >> >> >> sizes of every one of the six million alleged "victims" of the Nazis. >> >> > >> >> > Ben can't take it, so he has to resort to juvenile behaviour. >> >> >> >> Don't like it when I give it back, do you. >> > >> > You are being silly. All I asked you to do was to give a verifiable >> > example of a claim *you* made. Either you can give an example, or you >> > made it up. Your turn. >> >> And I responded with a counter request. One you cannot answer because the >> question is a nonsense. As was the question asked of me. > >Fine. Run away then. I really don't care. The only person whose >credibility is shot to hell is you. You claimed "Hollywood, >documentary makers and writers of educational texts" claimed 4 million >Jews were killed at Auschwitz and when challenged to give even one >example, you instead responded with your childish "counter-offer". You >may impress morons like Kurt Knoll and Herr Skaliks with that juvenile >behaviour, but my point of proving that you bunch are liars and >nothing you say can be believed is supported. Like your hero the >disgraced David Irving, you are the author of your own shame. LOL Speaking of morons, Gord, I see that you still persist in flogging the dead horse about skaliks. This stupid line hasn't brought you anything yet, and it isn't going to. Irving is just one of a growing number of authors who are asking questions you cannot answer. It isn't going to be practical to try to slime them all. You are fighting a rear-guard action in an exercise of futility. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:32 EDT 2009 Article: 2002638 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 123 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:44:10 -0400 Bytes: 6521 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002638 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> > >> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >> >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >> >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means used to >> >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >> >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >> >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or that it did >> >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying what you >> >> >>>>>> don't >> >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on countless >> >> >>>>> occasions. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery again. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >> >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more than one >> >> >>> occasion. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >> >> > >> >> > You lying cunt. >> >> > >> >> >> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is the >> >> invariable response of a crank to either: >> >> >> >> a) Make personal insults, >> >> b) Change the subject, or >> >> c) Both of the above. >> >> >> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you won't even >> >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the idiocy of >> >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to yourself as well. >> >> >> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to what >> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >> >> >> >> Do you? >> > >> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >> >> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? > >Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >description of people like you and Cramer. You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different levels. You're the person trying to force his interpretation of history onto others. I don't care whether you believe that the earth is flat, but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth concept. It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and consistency. Zulu always makes sense, but you very seldom. Calling me and others names gleaned from Newspeak will not change the fact that your model is bankrupt and simply does not explain that period of history. Models that fail to explain events need to be altered or discarded. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:32 EDT 2009 Article: 2002639 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: George Galloway banned from Canada Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <063js4h1t7h9eaifm8l6hu2v8u7laqrp6u@4ax.com> References: <72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net> <979f1a7b-3729-45c3-a472-ae19d8d52ee2@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <91356f31-45c7-492c-9a8f-913a549084ef@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 80 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:46:19 -0400 Bytes: 4839 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2002639 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >On Mar 24, 4:55 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:09:27 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >On Mar 22, 9:33 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >wrote: >> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:55:44 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> >news:tnmas4d91okobosc9e65vcep05vimoj0so@4ax.com... >> >> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:12:53 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>"Heinrich" wrote in message >> >> >>>news:72jclpFq099fU1@mid.individual.net... >> >> >>>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/20/george-galloway-banned... >> >> >>>> His proposed visit prompted the Jewish Defence League of Canada to write >> >> >>>> an open letter to the country's government urging it to do "everything >> >> >>>> possible to keep this hater away". >> >> >> >>>Perhaps they just pointed out that Galloway has openly provided financial >> >> >>>and material support to an organization listed as being a terrorist >> >> >>>group - >> >> >>>Hamas. >> >> >> >>>The same result would apply to a person from Europe who did fundraising >> >> >>>for >> >> >>>the LTTE and wanted to visit Canada for further activities. >> >> >> >>>HTH >> >> >>>-pk >> >> >> >> The Toronto Star denounced the conservative government's actions in >> >> >> this case as ridiculous using the heading: Silly ban on British MP >> >> >> >> Quotation from the Toronto Star editorial page: >> >> >> >> ...The Harper Conservatives make us all look like country bumpkins. >> >> >> People who don't share their views aren't all hideous threats to the >> >> >> nation. >> >> >> >The issue is that Galloway publicly provided finanial and material support >> >> >for a group listed by both Canada and the US as a terrorist organization, >> >> >and that his visit is likely intended to provide further support. >> >> >> >The Star's view doesn't change the fact that known LTTE fundraisers and >> >> >supporters would have exactly the same kinds of problems entering Canada and >> >> >the US. >> >> >> My interest is that the Toronto Star, my favourite newspaper, will >> >> contribute to bringing down this ridiculous right-wing government of >> >> gross incompetents whom I hold personally and individually responsible >> >> for the Canadian Afghanistan deaths. Tories deserve the firing squad >> >> for their actions, but we Canadians don't use such measures, so >> >> lengthy prison terms would have to do. >> >> >Johannes:  I'm not a Tory, but remember that it was the Liberals who >> >first sent our troops into Afghanistan. >> >> Yes, but that was in a constructive role, not as military lackeys for >> Busheviks. >> >As far as I know, the Liberals sent in Canadian troops as a response >to 911. Bush was in power at that time. How different is their role >now as opposed to then? >I note that 40 JTF2 operatives were sent in in December, 2001. >Regular forces were engaged in combat. A Canadian broke the world's >sniper record. >We should be out of Afghanistan. We never should have gone in there >in the first place. I agree that we should never have been there in the first place. Let the Americans fight their own colonial wars. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:33 EDT 2009 Article: 2003271 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com> References: <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 158 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:20:00 -0400 Bytes: 8553 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003271 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:04:50 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:19:49 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com... >> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >> >>>><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>>>> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >>>>> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> wrote: >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >>>>> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >> >>>>> >>>> Ebersdorf >> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >> >>>>> >>>>> (Eugene >> >>>>> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>> In article , >> >>>>> >>>>>> "B.H. >> >>>>> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >>>>> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> culture >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> nobody >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> aspects >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> to >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> know, >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >>>>> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >>>>> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >>>>> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >>>>> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go >> >>>>> >>>>>> along" >> >>>>> >>>>>> when >> >>>>> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >> >>>>> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >>>>> >>>>>> had >> >>>>> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >>>>> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or >> >>>>> >>>>> other >> >>>>> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche >> >>>>> >>>>> Post. >> >>>>> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >>>>> >>>> Wrong. >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >>>>> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say >> >>>>> >>>> about >> >>>>> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >> >>>>> >>>> assassinated >> >>>>> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> >>>>> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >> >>>>> >>>> üblichen >> >>>>> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >>>>> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >> >>>>> >>>> handelt >> >>>>> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >>>>> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer >> >>>>> >>>> propagandistischen >> >>>>> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >>>>> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >>>>> >>>> werden. >> >>>>> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >> >>>>> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >> >>>>> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >>>>> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >> >>>>> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >>>>> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >>>>> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >> >>>>> >>> Germany >> >>>>> >>> at that. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >> >>>>> >> German >> >>>>> >> language. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> >>>>> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> >>>>> transliterations from English >> >>>> >> >>>>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >>> >> >>> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> >>> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> >>> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> >>> standard word order and word usage in German. >> >>> >> >>> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >> >>> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> >>> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >> >> >>Interesting comment. >> >> >> >>I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of the >> >>Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >> >>opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >> > >> > I got the same impression on reading this material. It looked like the >> > work of some "mack snell" type of American whose command of German was >> > of the same low quality as that of some drunken Polish peasant. >> >> We're led to believe this document was written by none other than Eichmann >> himself. >> >> Was German not his native language? > >He was Austrian and by almost every account, his German was lousy. You are an idiot, McFee. Austrians speak German just as well as any other German. Austrians ARE ethnically German and the area known as Austria has been linked to Germany since the 9th century. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:33 EDT 2009 Article: 2003272 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com> <9nais4hbh789j225sqcrp68acvg3rdonht@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 85 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:24:05 -0400 Bytes: 4982 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003272 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:13:32 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:51:30 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:9nais4hbh789j225sqcrp68acvg3rdonht@4ax.com... >> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:26:11 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >>"Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >>news:3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com... >> >>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, in >> >>> , "B.H. Cramer" >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>>> news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >> >>>> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>>> > >> >>>> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> [...] >> >>> >> >>>> >>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> >>>> > started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> >>>> > for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> >>>> > standard word order and word usage in German. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the >> >>>> > defendants >> >>>> > nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> >>>> > quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >>>> >> >>>> Interesting comment. >> >>>> >> >>>> I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of >> >>>> the >> >>>> Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >> >>>> opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >> >>>> >> >>>> Isn't that interesting? >> >>> >> >>> No, that is a lie. There was no such woman, and when challenged, you >> >>> folded like a tent. >> >> >> >>That is NOT a lie. And you goddamned well know it. >> >>> >> >>>> Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused to >> >>>> give >> >>>> them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and >> >>>> underwear >> >>>> size. >> >>> >> >>> You were called a liar because you made it up. You could have sent me >> >>> the contact information in private, and I could have contacted her. I >> >>> have never revealed private correspondence and never would, and if you >> >>> decide to be honest, you will confirm that. But still you refused. >> >> >> >>Again - She did NOT want any communication with you people. NONE. I told >> >>you >> >>that at the time. >> > >> > She sounds like a smart woman. She clearly didn't want to be harassed, >> > threatened, or have her house burned down. The holocaustT lobby makes >> > the Mafia look like Sunday school kids by comparison. >> >> She is a smart woman. >> >> She knew damned well any attempt to return home to Germany would be fraught >> with danger if these vindictive turds knew who she was. > >ROTFL! Just made that one up, right? A laugh a minute, you guys. There is nothing funny about criminal harassment gourd, and that is the specialty of the holocaust™ mafia. A simple smear letter to the German prosecutor's office, and the woman's life could be made into hell, especially in Germany where the legal system is reverse onus. You are required to prove your innocence, not the other way around. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:34 EDT 2009 Article: 2003273 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com> <9nais4hbh789j225sqcrp68acvg3rdonht@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 98 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:24:42 -0400 Bytes: 5017 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003273 On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:59:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:po4js412clvjeetlbcdi2ieke58rbqd5h0@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 05:51:30 +1000, in >> , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>> news:9nais4hbh789j225sqcrp68acvg3rdonht@4ax.com... >>> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:26:11 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >>"Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> >>news:3vhgs45hgbhblflqtqcjri82p1iprm1s6t@4ax.com... >>> >>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, in >>> >>> , "B.H. Cramer" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>> >>>> news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >>> >>>> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a >>> >>>> >>transliteration. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >>> >>>> > started out life as an English text and were simply translated >>> >>>> > word >>> >>>> > for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying >>> >>>> > the >>> >>>> > standard word order and word usage in German. >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the >>> >>>> > defendants >>> >>>> > nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >>> >>>> > quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Interesting comment. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies >>> >>>> of >>> >>>> the >>> >>>> Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in >>> >>>> her >>> >>>> opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Isn't that interesting? >>> >>> >>> >>> No, that is a lie. There was no such woman, and when challenged, you >>> >>> folded like a tent. >>> >> >>> >>That is NOT a lie. And you goddamned well know it. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Aside - I was called a liar by the usual suspects because I refused >>> >>>> to >>> >>>> give >>> >>>> them this woman's name, address, phone number, DNA profile and >>> >>>> underwear >>> >>>> size. >>> >>> >>> >>> You were called a liar because you made it up. You could have sent >>> >>> me >>> >>> the contact information in private, and I could have contacted her. >>> >>> I >>> >>> have never revealed private correspondence and never would, and if >>> >>> you >>> >>> decide to be honest, you will confirm that. But still you refused. >>> >> >>> >>Again - She did NOT want any communication with you people. NONE. I >>> >>told >>> >>you >>> >>that at the time. >>> > >>> > She sounds like a smart woman. She clearly didn't want to be harassed, >>> > threatened, or have her house burned down. The holocaustT lobby makes >>> > the Mafia look like Sunday school kids by comparison. >>> >>> She is a smart woman. >>> >>> She knew damned well any attempt to return home to Germany would be >>> fraught >>> with danger if these vindictive turds knew who she was. >> >> ROTFL! Just made that one up, right? A laugh a minute, you guys. > >Balls. I think that McFee is probably a eunuch, and balls are history. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:34 EDT 2009 Article: 2003274 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <60mms4tc90fkc3fqhiunpvng4l8usajo3r@4ax.com> References: <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:25:56 -0400 Bytes: 8246 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003274 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:14:42 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:08:05 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:24:26 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >> >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >news:sshgs4lvcob13b7hrvngtsn39441j12d3j@4ax.com... >> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:13:56 -0400, in >> >> , Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >> >>> ><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>> >> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >>> >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >>> >> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >> >>> >> >>>> Ebersdorf >> >>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >> >>> >> >>>>> (Eugene >> >>> >> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> In article , >> >>> >> >>>>>> "B.H. >> >>> >> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >>> >> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign language >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> culture >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> nobody >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> aspects >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> and >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be assumed >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> to >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> know, >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >>> >> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about this >> >>> >> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >>> >> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >>> >> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] go >> >>> >> >>>>>> along" >> >>> >> >>>>>> when >> >>> >> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >> >>> >> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >>> >> >>>>>> had >> >>> >> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >>> >> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass or >> >>> >> >>>>> other >> >>> >> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the Deutsche >> >>> >> >>>>> Post. >> >>> >> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >>> >> >>>> Wrong. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >>> >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say >> >>> >> >>>> about >> >>> >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >> >>> >> >>>> assassinated >> >>> >> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could have >> >>> >> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >> >>> >> >>>> üblichen >> >>> >> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >>> >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >> >>> >> >>>> handelt >> >>> >> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >>> >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer >> >>> >> >>>> propagandistischen >> >>> >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >>> >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >>> >> >>>> werden. >> >>> >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word would >> >>> >> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work of >> >>> >> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >>> >> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing in >> >>> >> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >>> >> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >>> >> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >> >>> >> >>> Germany >> >>> >> >>> at that. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >> >>> >> >> German >> >>> >> >> language. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> >>> >> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> >>> >> transliterations from English >> >>> > >> >>> >I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >>> >> >>> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> >>> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> >>> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> >>> standard word order and word usage in German. >> >> >> >> I am waiting for an example. >> >> >> >>> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the defendants >> >>> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> >>> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >> >> >> Actually, they were. The defence saw every document that was entered >> >> into evidence at Nuremberg. >> > >> >But were unable to challenge any of it. >> >> No, all allied documents were considered "truth" by definition, >> regardless of how nonsensical they might have been in actual >> historical fact. > >Untrue. Read the game rules for Nuremberg. You are wrong. > >[troll deleted] From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:35 EDT 2009 Article: 2003278 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Correlation between Holocaust denial and anti-semitism Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <9jmms49snhnjp1fsj6t3gadrog3ouv8ne4@4ax.com> References: <9eb92403e7a9f89c3693bcfce4e78e5b@pseudo.borked.net> <49c44c8f$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c6abe5$1@news.x-privat.org> <6086a2a0-8952-49d3-a14a-e2aac849c3aa@a5g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <49c8ac41$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <3g5js4p1na520iqseuv263per6baj918j7@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:38:42 -0400 Bytes: 2503 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003278 On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:32:26 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:47:39 +1100, in ><49c8ac41$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" > wrote: > >> Whilst there are plenty of anti-semites who are not "Holocaust Deniers", it >> seems that all the Holocaust Deniers in this newsgroup are also >> anti-semitic. > >That is correct. It is in fact much of the driving force behind their >denial. You're full of shit, as always. Personally, I have never had any animus against Jews. I just have my own views about Germany and its history that do not coincide with yours. Tough. > >> On the face of it, there doesn't seem to be a direct connection. > >There is. If the Holocaust is fact, some folks might have sympathy >for the Jews having been persecuted and murdered the way they were. >Antisemitic trash can't stand that, so they deny the Holocaust. This is just more bullshit that makes no sense. The term anti-semitism is so over-worked that it too has been robbed of all meaning. > >[...] > >There is some thinking on this here: > >http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/abc-clio/ From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:35 EDT 2009 Article: 2003292 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com> References: <72rrpkFs0ok3U1@mid.individual.net> <2ZKdnUleq5_8aVTUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:48:43 -0400 Bytes: 5427 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003292 On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:21:12 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> news:holman-2503091203590001@C518-M3.eng.helsinki.fi... > > >> >> That's partly true, but it does not anywhere indicate I categorically >> >> stated >> >> people cannot be killed in a sealed room with ZyklonB. Again you make >> >> with >> >> the porkies, laddie. >> > >> > You claimed then and elsewhere that Zyklon-B releases its cyanide >> > extremely slowly, >> >> It does. > >Not according to research done by the Germans in the 1930s and 40s. Not >according to logic, either, since a concentration of 15,000 ppm has to be >attained and maintained over a timespan of approximately 72 hours. How are >you going to maintain such a high concentration for so long if it takes >several hours to reach it? You are obviously not a science person. If you want the concentration of anything to endure for 72 hours, then it pretty much has to be slow release. Something that releases its payload in 5 minutes, say, is going to peak very quickly in terms of concentration, but after an hour or so the concentration will be close to zero. > >> >for which reason the accounts of eyewitnesses that all >> > the people trapped in the room were dead within ten to fifteen minutes. >> >> Que? What are you trying to say? > >Sorry. The telephone rang and I was distracted. The end of the sentence >eshould have read: > >"...for which reason the accounts of eyewitnesses that all the people >trapped in the room were dead within ten to fifteen minutes are in >contradiction with the facts." > >> > In another context, you argued similarly that the opiate introduced into >> > the ambient air of the Dubrovka Theatre in Moscow took hours to >> > incapcitate and kill the people in the auditorium, even though, as a >> > fast-acting operating room anestheric it would be pretty worthless if that >> > were indeed the case. >> >> I think you're lying about "hours". I can't remember the details now but it >> was considerable time, particularly given the gas was squirted in under >> pressure. >> >> >> >You ran away from trying to explain how Japanese >> > terrorists quickly turned ventilated subway stations and rolling stock >> > into makeshift lethal mass execution gas chambers in the Martch 20, 1995 >> >> Apples and organges, sunschein. That was a nerve gas. > >Nevertheless, it is a matter of releasing a lethal agent into ambient air >in a high enough concentration for anyone forced to breathe it to be >incapacitated and thus forced to breathe even more, often with lethal >results. The methodology and procedure are the same, whether cyanide, >carbon monoxide, or sarin. > >> > terrorist attack in Tokyo, or how the methyl isocyanate released into the >> > atmosphere in Bhopal, India, in 1984, even without any physical structure, >> > rapidly turned the area around the local Union Carbide plant into an area >> > with lethal ambient air. >> >> The pressure gradients and atmospherics at the time acted to hold the gas >> close to the ground. There were thousands of cubic metres of gas released at >> Bhopal. >> >> > These and other incidents, which you have dismissed on the flimsy premise >> > that they were accidents and thus prove nothing, demonstrate that rapid >> > mass killing by poison gas can be implemented and managed easily, and that >> > certain gasses, including various cyanide gasses, can be generated and >> > dissipated rapidly with little danger to the folks who have to clean up >> > after the gassing. >> >> You're trying to draw conclusions from totally different situations. > >No, I'm trying to call attention to the fact that the methodology and >procedure are the same, regardless of certain details of implementation. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:35 EDT 2009 Article: 2003293 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <7hums493hhc7n1ba8em03o2psqfbo368n0@4ax.com> References: <730tr5Fsfq1hU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:51:18 -0400 Bytes: 2511 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003293 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:48:37 +0100, "Heinrich" wrote: > >"Eugene Holman" schreef in bericht >news:holman-2603091043350001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> In article , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>> news:holman-2503091554400001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >>> > >>> > The temperature of the ambient air in a sealed, unventilated room >>> > packed >>> > with people will rise rapidly due to their body heat and the heat of >>> > their >>> > exhaled breath. >>> >>> I see. You have tables to prove this, yougenie? >> >> Are you denying that this is true? Anyone who has taken an elementary >> course in physics, specifically the part dealing with heat kinetics, or >> ,alternatively, verified this empircally during a trip in a crowded subway >> car during the winter knows this to be true. >> >> This is not a matter of because-I-say-so-ism. An entire branch of >> technology, ventilation and aeration, exists because of this indisputable >> consequence of the working of the laws of nature that regulate and define >> the world in which we live. >> >> Regards, >> Eugene Holman >a simple yes or no would do holman, once again you are using too many words >to say something He's trying to disguise the fact that he understands nothing about this. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:36 EDT 2009 Article: 2003294 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <730tr5Fsfq1hU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 63 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:56:13 -0400 Bytes: 3975 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003294 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:19:52 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> news:holman-2603091114110001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... > >> >> Cramer's question is not at all outrageous. > >It is outrageous, since there is an entire branch of physics as well as an >applied recnology dealing with the issue concerned. Everyone who has ever >designed an enclosure has to take the fact that the body heat of any >people inside of it will affect the temperature of the ambient air into >account. An phamaceutical firm will tell you that if you want a specific concentration of some substance for an extended period of time, you need a slow-release medium, not something that spews it all out over the course of a few seconds. An immediate release medium will give a very high concentration for a very short time. If you want a steady state over an extended time, then one needs to have slow-release or time-release materials. > >> It is difficult for you to >> answer, I'll give you that, but outrageous - not in any way. > >It is indeed difficult to answer according to the artificially high >standards that you listed in a previous posting: > >Source: Message-ID: > > >I suggest you provide evidence to support your nonsensical tales. I want >tables, yougenie. I want tables showing exactly what the increase in >temperature was in each and every alleged gas chamber. I want your figures >to consider the ambient temperature, the season of the year, the structure >of the "gas chambers", the thermal properties of the material used to >construct the "gas chambers", sliding scale numbers on the increase in the >internal temperature balanced against the numbers of persons introduced over >various periods of time.... > > >Normal people would regard a reference to the theory of thermal >equilibrium as a sufficient answer. Nor would such people regard the claim >that at a place such as Auschwitz, where the outside temperature seldom >exceeds 20°C >[http://www.worldreviewer.com/travel-guides/tomb/auschwitz-birkenau/55379/weather/] >and is almost always considerably cooler, packing a sealed room with >people will result in an increase in the temperature of the ambient air >inside the room as a "nonsensical tale". > >> Now, please do as I ask, and present me with the tables I seek. Otherwise be >> forever known as an exponent of "because I say soism", appalling scholarship >> and advanced fuckwittery. > >Because you say so? > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:36 EDT 2009 Article: 2003295 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <1uums4p2js3nm4ppfmoj3mn3frrql2etr2@4ax.com> References: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> <6sydnQi9Oe0sXVfUnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@supernews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 122 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:01:13 -0400 Bytes: 5318 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003295 On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:35:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:qfcis49s05hngs8me752artf7sfqral8aj@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:44:09 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>news:n3n1s4l9577n7b6ormghv6mdrhkcgub170@4ax.com... >>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>>>news:4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com... >>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >>>>>>>death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >>>>>>>Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >>>>>>>mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >>>>>>>understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >>>>>>>about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >>>>>>>lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is McVay's denial of Ike's camps and various other examples of >>>>>> allied crimes that convinced me that he is quite insincere and that >>>>>> his other historical claims are probably also bogus. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>What death camps? >>>> >>>> There were numerous places along the banks of the Rhine where millions >>>> were kept imprisoned on open meadows without shelter or food. >>>> Relatives were threatened with execution if they brought any food for >>>> the captives. The allegedly "noble" allies fall really far short of >>>> the mark. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Where are the bodies? >>>> >>>> The Americans carted them off in dump trucks each morning >>> >>>And you base this on, what, exactly? >>> >>>Where is the evidence that this happened? >>> >>>How many dump trucks would be required, and where are the witnesses? >>> >>>> and they are >>>> very unlikely to have given them a decent burial where burial sites >>>> could be found today. >>> >>>So where are they? >>> >>>How many dump trucks did you say were used? Where are the records of >>>these >>>trucks? >>> >>>And where are the witnesses? >>> >>>Could you stop making things up and present facts for once? >> >> There were thousands of witnesses to these atrocities, > >And these witnesses are who, exactly? > > >> including some >> relatives of mine. There is a very large discrepancy between the >> number of German military personnel known to have been alive and >> healthy when the war ended, and the number that returned home by 1956. >> Not all of them were murdered in Ike's camps to be sure, but huge >> numbers were. > >Yet you seem singularly unable to provide any real evidence of this claim. >You say it's there, but cannot produce it. > >> >> Many of the grave sites have been found, yielding results lower than >> Bacques' estimates, but significantly higher than the allied claims of >> prisoner losses. > >And these grave sites are where, exactly? > >How many dump trucks were there, and where is the documentation? > >-pk > >> >>> >>>-pk >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>How do you explain the gross errors in Bacque's arithmetic and his >>>>>refusal >>>>>to correct them? >>>> >>>> What errors are those? His findings make sense and they are consistent >>>> with the experiences of people who lived during that time. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > LOL I'm not going to allow myself to be sucked into this game. This is the standard time-wasting trick employed by holocaustians over and over again. German postwar losses among POWs and civilians is dramatically better documented than the holocaust™ stories. I don't care what you believe. What is important is that I know it to be factual, and your opinions will not alter that. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:37 EDT 2009 Article: 2003296 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c3a3c3$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c43b60$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c59230$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5ce8c$0$7277$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:03:46 -0400 Bytes: 2905 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003296 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:28:34 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >news:TKqdnVMHXPBu9lfUnZ2dnUVZ_uWWnZ2d@supernews.com... >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:amdds45d719qad6vc0g7dvh70rm9srv03d@4ax.com... >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:37:16 +1100, in >>> <49c5ce8c$0$7277$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >> What "neutral source" claims that the the Jewish world population >>>> >> remained about the same, or increased slightly, over the war years? I >>>> >> saw >>>> >> no such source listed, and its the foundation of your claim. >>>> > >>>> > Try the World Almanac, cloth ears. You could easily have used Google >>>> > to do >>>> > a search as well. >>>> >>>> Its your evidence. Post a link to it. >>> >>> As you are seeing, Ben gets quite annoyed when asked to actually, >>> gasp... provide support for his statements. >> >> And his annoyance really takes off when it's pointed out that the actaul >> books he thinks he's referring to don't turn out to support his claims. > >Oh, but they do, keenan. It's your second printing of the Almanac which you >quote from. The one reprinted using the numbers the yids provided to the >editors. The one reprinted due to the whining, screeching and kvetching by >the yids. > The holocaust™ mafia is a master at exerting pressure on people to conform. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:37 EDT 2009 Article: 2003297 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: 'Germany ups funds for Shoah survivors' Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <0cvms4tigmgu043jrjirpk29r97co7tna6@4ax.com> References: <72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net> <72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net> <%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> <72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net> <72ppg8Fr8ihtU1@mid.individual.net> <72v2r0Fs8tieU1@mid.individual.net> <730kq4FsqkiqU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:06:08 -0400 Bytes: 5562 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003297 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:14:29 +0100, "Heinrich" wrote: > >"ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >news:CrEyl.16786$as4.15294@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >> "Heinrich" wrote in message >> news:72v2r0Fs8tieU1@mid.individual.net... >>> >>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>> news:f6syl.24674$yr3.1730@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>> news:72ppg8Fr8ihtU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> >>>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>>> news:SXNxl.10392$%54.10171@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>>> news:72h68eFq0am9U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>>>>> news:%9Jwl.16097$as4.12132@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:72h531FppgocU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>>>>>>> news:iWIwl.16090$as4.10782@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>>>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:72gofaFq7ibdU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>>>>>> The Jewish Claims Conference said it won a promise Thursday from >>>>>>>>>>> the German government to increase funding to elderly Holocaust >>>>>>>>>>> survivors in eastern Europe. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> German officials promised to increase monthly payments from ?178 >>>>>>>>>>> ($235) to ?240 ($315) for survivors in some of the poorest >>>>>>>>>>> eastern European countries, such as Ukraine, said Roman Kent, a >>>>>>>>>>> negotiator for the claims conference. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Those in relatively wealthier eastern countries now in the >>>>>>>>>>> European Union, such as Poland, will see their payments rise from >>>>>>>>>>> ?216 ($295) to ?240 ($328), he said. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kent said the breakthrough came Thursday during meetings with >>>>>>>>>>> representatives of Germany's Finance Ministry. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> He called it a "measure of some justice" for a group that often >>>>>>>>>>> lives mired in poverty. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The goal, he said, is to make the lives of the Nazi victims, most >>>>>>>>>>> of whom are now in their 80s or 90s "a little easier in the >>>>>>>>>>> twilight of their lives." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Those living in impoverished parts of eastern Europe often lack >>>>>>>>>>> food, medicine and even coal, wood or gas to heat their homes. In >>>>>>>>>>> many case, they lost siblings or other relatives in the >>>>>>>>>>> Holocaust, and lack family support, he said. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Attempts by The Associated Press to reach the Finance Ministry by >>>>>>>>>>> phone for comment went unanswered late Thursday. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Waaaaaaaaaaaa, the Eurotrash bitch whines again. How much longer >>>>>>>>>> do you >>>>>>>>>> think these payments are going to have to go on retard? Hint: it >>>>>>>>>> ain't gonna >>>>>>>>>> be much longer than a decade at most. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this is going on for too long a period of time.somebody in germany >>>>>>>>> should rise and tell the jew to fuck it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll bet the costs associated w/this are insignificant nazi bitch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> i donot think so on the other hand the jews are after the last penny >>>>>>> they canbn get from the germans, they are never satisfied >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you afraid the cost is going to reduce your welfare cheque? >>>>>> >>>>> my good friend i donot get a welfare cheque. why are you so obsessed >>>>> with welfare cheques? >>>> >>>> So you're a rent-boy for men then? Rectally speaking of course. >>>> >>> maybe it escaped your attention but you did not answer my question >>> >>> i think you are ajewish brown noser >> >> You probably say that to all the little boys don't you? >> > >it is sad to note that i ask so many questions and you hardly reply to any >of them The poor guy obviously has only a few functional brain cells, so there are dramatic limits to what he can do. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:37 EDT 2009 Article: 2003298 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:11:19 -0400 Bytes: 2121 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003298 On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:49:41 -0500, Sara Salzman wrote: >In article , > Topaz wrote: > >> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. You are quite welcome to await the Soviet soldateska who had been instructed to rape German women, girls, and boys to the point of death. In general, suicide is not rational, but in the case of Goebbels and tens of thousands of other Berliners during that period, it most certainly was rational. On the other hand, perhaps it is your wet dream to be gang-raped by fifty or sixty unwashed, STD-infested Red Army louts. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:37 EDT 2009 Article: 2003299 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <7ovms4lnbi2vhj6cda91kisb2h8kdrjipo@4ax.com> References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:15:36 -0400 Bytes: 2393 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003299 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:17:59 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Sara Salzman" wrote in message >news:catamont-3FB433.19494125032009@news-40.giganews.com... >> In article , >> Topaz wrote: >> >>> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. > >He did not murder his own children, sara my dear. His wife poisoned the >children. As horrible as that sounds, she probably did the children a favour by saving them from a typical allied "liberation". When the Red Army types came to the door, they would have immediately shot to death all the young males, and the little girls would have been continuously raped until they bled to death. Such was the allied way. A little KCN sounds like the lesser of two evils. > >But please don't let facts get in the way of another of your hate rants. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:38 EDT 2009 Article: 2003300 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:17:07 -0400 Bytes: 2534 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003300 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:23:28 -0500, Sara Salzman wrote: >In article , > "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:catamont-3FB433.19494125032009@news-40.giganews.com... >> > In article , >> > Topaz wrote: >> > >> >> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> > The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. >> >> He did not murder his own children, sara my dear. His wife poisoned the >> children. >> >> But please don't let facts get in the way of another of your hate rants. > >It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >children murdered, he could have stopped it. They would have been murdered by the allied "liberators" anyway, and in a much more brutal and debased fashion. > That makes him an >accomplice. And afterwards, he and his wife offed themselves. > >Or are you going to claim that "yids" did it? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:38 EDT 2009 Article: 2003301 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:25:49 -0400 Bytes: 4123 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003301 On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:09:57 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito >> wrote: >> >>>On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >>>> "Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >>>> >>>> news:KcednZ3XqKnp3ljUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@supernews.com... >>>> >>>> > "Tim Miller" wrote in message >>>> >news:gq3el2$dme$3@news.motzarella.org... >>>> >> Topaz wrote: >>>> >>> During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in >>>> >>> concentration camps. >>>> >>>> >> Then we kicked the nazi's worthless asses and set their >>>> >> prisoners free. >>>> >>>> > One might also note that there are very, very few valid comparisons >>>> > between Nazi and North American concentration camps. >>>> >>>> Only because you cunts wrote the history. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > One might also note that North Americans did not have the other types >>>> > of >>>> > camps that the Nazis relied on - the slave labour and death camps. >>>> >>>> What death camps? >>> Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. >> >> No Jews would have died in concentration camps had the allies not >> launched WW2. > >Aside from the mendacious nature of your comment, it is factually untrue. Britain and France attacked Germany, not the other way around. Neither Britain nor France gave a flying shit about Poland. Poland was merely an excuse to get into the war with Germany they had planned from before the advent of the Nazis. > >Concentration camps were already in operation in Nazi territory before the >"official" start of the war - from 1933 - and Jews, among others, started >being murdered in them pretty much from *the day after the SS took over >Dachau*. According to Bad Arolsen, the total death toll at Dachau was 18,000 and most of that in the last few weeks of the war. There were fewer than 200,000 Jews in Germany, so even if all of them had fallen victim to the Nazis it still would have fallen far short of the six million claim of the industry. Most of the fabled six million were in eastern Poland and in the former USSR, places the National Socialists would never have been, except for the war. Even if all 15 million of the world's Jews had fallen victim to somebody's pogrom, it would not have justified a war that killed over 50 million people. The death of a Jew isn't any more tragic than the death of anybody else. > >So again, we find you just making things up. No, you are sticking your head into the sand hoping that obvious facts will go away. They won't. > >-pk > > > > > > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:39 EDT 2009 Article: 2003302 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: NY synagogue: Kill Abbas, make tax-deductible donations Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72or82Frck7iU1@mid.individual.net> <72pocuFqmo96U1@mid.individual.net> <72v17bFrtbp9U1@mid.individual.net> <730kgiFs0jokU1@mid.individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:29:02 -0400 Bytes: 4952 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003302 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:09:23 +0100, "Heinrich" wrote: > >"ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >news:YjEyl.16780$as4.15056@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >> "Heinrich" wrote in message >> news:72v17bFrtbp9U1@mid.individual.net... >>> >>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>> news:b%ryl.24669$yr3.19615@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>> news:72pocuFqmo96U1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> >>>>> "ÇDoügßT" schreef in bericht >>>>> news:jQNxl.10388$%54.8959@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... >>>>>> "Heinrich" wrote in message >>>>>> news:72or82Frck7iU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>>> Exclusive report from Mondoweiss: In a speech at a New York synagogue >>>>>>> Wednesday night, Nadia Matar, a leader of the Israeli settlers' group >>>>>>> "Women in Green," called for the assassination of Mahmoud Abbas, the >>>>>>> president of the Palestinian Authority, as a way of bringing peace to >>>>>>> Israel. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just as Churchill understood that in order to bring peace to Europe, >>>>>>> "he had to destroy the Nazi beast," Matar explained, "today we must >>>>>>> destroy all the terrorist organizations. We must kill all the >>>>>>> terrorist leaders, starting with Mahmoud Abbas and all >>>>>>> others...Nobody had any moral qualms at destroying the Nazi regime. >>>>>>> We have to abolish the Oslo Agreements, there's no difference between >>>>>>> the PA, the Islamic Jihad, the Hamas, whatever names you have, >>>>>>> they're all terrorists and we cannot have peace with them." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matar then urged the crowd at the Safra Synagogue on the Upper East >>>>>>> Side to make tax-deductible donations to Women in Green by writing >>>>>>> checks to the Central Fund of Israel. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As this website has reported, the Central Fund is a U.S. charity >>>>>>> group that supports Jewish settler militias. It has received >>>>>>> donations from leading figures in the American Jewish community, >>>>>>> including James Tisch, the ceo of Loews, Michael Milken the >>>>>>> banker/philanthropist, Alan C. (Ace) Greenberg, the former ceo of >>>>>>> Bear Stearns, and actor Kirk Douglas. The Fund is housed at a fabric >>>>>>> store on Sixth Avenue called Marcus Fabrics and administered by >>>>>>> Arthur and Hadassah Marcus, who live in New York, and their son Jay, >>>>>>> who lives in Efrat, the West Bank settlement where Nadia Matar also >>>>>>> lives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matar, who was born in Belgium and moved to Israel 20 years ago, >>>>>>> thanked the Safra Synagogue rabbi, Elie Abadie, who is associated >>>>>>> with Yeshiva University, for hosting her visit. It was her third >>>>>>> appearance in a tour of the U.S. to build support for the Jewish >>>>>>> colonists of the West Bank. >>>>>> >>>>>> SOunds good to me ALi Al Arsefuck, maybe they can ventilate your >>>>>> cranium at the same time. >>>>>> >>>>> i notice that you are once again in a happy mood >>>> >>>> You would be better off dead, you should consider the >>>> possibilities. >>>> >>> >>> you must be from the new york aerea but tell me are you an observant jew? >> >> Why don't you meet me and find out Eurotrash bitch? >> >i have no intention to ever set foot again on american soil. the last time i >was in the states was in 2005 and what i then experienced by those homeland >security imbeciles is beyond believe, you americans are allparanoid and sick >in the head I absolutely detest visiting the USA, and only did so when I absolutely had to do so to satisfy some promises and obligations. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:39 EDT 2009 Article: 2003306 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 82 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:44:32 -0400 Bytes: 5430 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003306 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:49:00 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com>, >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:04:50 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:19:49 +1000, in >> >, "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: > > > >> >> We're led to believe this document was written by none other than Eichmann >> >> himself. >> >> >> >> Was German not his native language? >> > >> >He was Austrian and by almost every account, his German was lousy. >> >> You are an idiot, McFee. Austrians speak German just as well as any >> other German. > >Nevertheless, they speak it markedly differently than those Germans who >are not Bavarians. Hitler, also an Austrian, used a grammatically complex, >lexically Germanic elements favoring German in his public speeches, but he >made no effort to conceal his small-town Austrian background by modifying >his pronunciation or intonation. The overall impression one gains from his >public speech style is that he was a yokel who had made it big time. I >might add, that the Finns managed to record a snittpe of his >conversational speech style and found it quite different from that of the >public Hitler (listen at I have seen videos of Hitler speaking, and there is nothing unusual about his pronunciation, which in any case, would not make any difference in written work. People in Atlanta sound different from New Yorkers, but that wouldn't be noticed on a typed page, only when they are speaking. Incidentally, Bavaria is the place of origin of the population of Austria. They settled the eastern slopes of the Alps a bit over a millennium ago. >http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=1&ag=3&t=22&a=376; discussed by >David Irving at >http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/docs/Mannerheim/recording_040642.html). > >I have read the Wannsee Conference Protocol in German dozens of times, >even having once translated it into English. My humble conclusion is that >it was written by a native speaker of German, but one who never received >secretarial training, was writing about classified information for a group >of people who were familiar with said information and thus knew what the >euphemisms and non-specific language actually referred to, and did not >lack a sense of sardonic humor. For a young speaker of contemporary German >the bureaucratic style used in the early 1940s is also quite alien and may >make a docment seem as if it were the awkward attempt of a foreigner to >write German. I find many examples of what I would regard as inguistic >clumsiness and questionable usage, but nothing that would qualify as the >type of grammatical error typical of foreigners' German. Not everyone who >can speak German writes it well, and even many who write it well take >courses to help them adhere to the secretarial norms required by specific >bureaucracies. > >> Austrians ARE ethnically German and the area known as >> Austria has been linked to Germany since the 9th century. > >Austria has a different history than Germany and principalities that were >its predecessors. It is a matter of definition whether Austrians are >ethnically or even culturally German. Linguistically, they are German >speaking, but so are the majority of the inhabitants of Switzerland. >Having spent time in Germany and Austria, I maintain that Austria and >Germany are distinct in many ways, particularly in the fact that Slavic >(Slovenian, Czech, Slovak) and Hungarian influences, particularly in >cuisine but also in people's surnames, are far more evident in Austria >than they are in Germany. Many Austrians go out of their way to make it >clear that their identity is Austrian, not German. Whether this issue of >self-identification suffices to justify the existence of an Austrian >ethnicity is difficut to say. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:39 EDT 2009 Article: 2003378 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 119 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:18:27 -0400 Bytes: 6657 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003378 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:44:32 -0400, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:49:00 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >Holman) wrote: > >>In article <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com>, >>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:04:50 -0400, Gord McFee >>> wrote: >>> >>> >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:19:49 +1000, in >>> >, "B.H. Cramer" >>> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> We're led to believe this document was written by none other than Eichmann >>> >> himself. >>> >> >>> >> Was German not his native language? >>> > >>> >He was Austrian and by almost every account, his German was lousy. >>> >>> You are an idiot, McFee. Austrians speak German just as well as any >>> other German. >> >>Nevertheless, they speak it markedly differently than those Germans who >>are not Bavarians. Hitler, also an Austrian, used a grammatically complex, >>lexically Germanic elements favoring German in his public speeches, but he >>made no effort to conceal his small-town Austrian background by modifying >>his pronunciation or intonation. The overall impression one gains from his >>public speech style is that he was a yokel who had made it big time. I >>might add, that the Finns managed to record a snittpe of his >>conversational speech style and found it quite different from that of the >>public Hitler (listen at > >I have seen videos of Hitler speaking, and there is nothing unusual >about his pronunciation, which in any case, would not make any >difference in written work. People in Atlanta sound different from New >Yorkers, but that wouldn't be noticed on a typed page, only when they >are speaking. > >Incidentally, Bavaria is the place of origin of the population of >Austria. They settled the eastern slopes of the Alps a bit over a >millennium ago. >>http://www.yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=1&ag=3&t=22&a=376; discussed by >>David Irving at >>http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/docs/Mannerheim/recording_040642.html). >> >>I have read the Wannsee Conference Protocol in German dozens of times, >>even having once translated it into English. My humble conclusion is that >>it was written by a native speaker of German, but one who never received >>secretarial training, was writing about classified information for a group >>of people who were familiar with said information and thus knew what the >>euphemisms and non-specific language actually referred to, and did not >>lack a sense of sardonic humor. For a young speaker of contemporary German >>the bureaucratic style used in the early 1940s is also quite alien and may >>make a docment seem as if it were the awkward attempt of a foreigner to >>write German. I find many examples of what I would regard as inguistic >>clumsiness and questionable usage, but nothing that would qualify as the >>type of grammatical error typical of foreigners' German. Not everyone who >>can speak German writes it well, and even many who write it well take >>courses to help them adhere to the secretarial norms required by specific >>bureaucracies. >> >>> Austrians ARE ethnically German and the area known as >>> Austria has been linked to Germany since the 9th century. >> >>Austria has a different history than Germany and principalities that were >>its predecessors. The history of Germany and Austria are identical from 768 until 1806. Austria was just another German state, just like Bavaria or Württemberg. > It is a matter of definition whether Austrians are >>ethnically or even culturally German. Ridiculous. The area now known as Austria was settled by Bavarians a bit over 1000 years ago. >Linguistically, they are German >>speaking, but so are the majority of the inhabitants of Switzerland. Do you suppose that this might have something to do with the fact that what is now Switzerland was part of Germany until 1648? They didn't "accidentally" become German-speaking. >>Having spent time in Germany and Austria, I maintain that Austria and >>Germany are distinct in many ways, particularly in the fact that Slavic >>(Slovenian, Czech, Slovak) and Hungarian influences, particularly in >>cuisine but also in people's surnames, are far more evident in Austria >>than they are in Germany. There are lots of Polish names in the Rheinland, but that doesn't mean that the area is under Polish influence. It just means that some miners from Poland moved there because the money was better than in Poland. >Many Austrians go out of their way to make it >>clear that their identity is Austrian, not German. More than a century of anti-German propaganda has to have some effect. >From time to time there have been separatist sentiments in the Rheinland as well, but certainly not the bulk of the population. >Whether this issue of >>self-identification suffices to justify the existence of an Austrian >>ethnicity is difficut to say. The first line of the Austrian constitution in 1919 stated quite clearly and unequivocally that "Österreich ist ein Teil des Deutschen Reiches", but the allies wouldn't permit it. >> >>Regards, >>Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:40 EDT 2009 Article: 2003379 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7u7l@4ax.com> References: <2ZKdnUleq5_8aVTUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com> <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:20:35 -0400 Bytes: 4802 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003379 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:42:07 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com>, >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:21:12 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> Holman) wrote: > > > >> >Not according to research done by the Germans in the 1930s and 40s. Not >> >according to logic, either, since a concentration of 15,000 ppm has to be >> >attained and maintained over a timespan of approximately 72 hours. How are >> >you going to maintain such a high concentration for so long if it takes >> >several hours to reach it? >> >> You are obviously not a science person. > >Not a natural science person, anyway, any more... I was, once, long ago >and have done laboratory work that included gassing mice and rabbits with >chloroform. I am not a total tyro concerning this issue. > >> If you want the concentration >> of anything to endure for 72 hours, then it pretty much has to be slow >> release. > >If I want a concentration of 15,000 ppm to be generated and maintained for >72 hours, and the entire fumigation operation to have margins of no more >than an hour at each end, I have to have a fumigant that will release >enough cyanide to reach that 15,000 ppm concentration rather early in the >process. If it takes no more than 300 ppm maintained for ten to fifteen >minutes to kill people, it should be obvious that a lethal concentration >will be reached quite early on, given the relative distance between 0 ppm, >300 ppm, and 15,000 ppm. Zyklon-B wasn't devoloped to kill people. It was intended as a fumigant for the holds of ships. It was designed as a slow release fumigant so that it would have some staying power. > >> Something that releases its payload in 5 minutes, say, is >> going to peak very quickly in terms of concentration, > >Irmscher's tables did not indicate such a rapid release. At 15° C roughly >60 to 75% of the cyanide, epending on the carrier, had been released >during the first hour. The concentrations after the first fifteen minutes >were, in any case, far in excess of the lthal threshold for human beings. >On the basis of Irmscher's tables we can extrapolate that at a temperature >above the 26°C boiling point, which could be expected on most days between >late May and early September at Auschwitz within minutes of the room being >packed with people and sealed, the release of the hydrogen cyanide from >its carrier would be even more rapid and a concentration lethal to humans >attained all the more quickly if a quantity of Zyklon-B sufficient for >even a 50% fumigation "lite" of the sealed volume in question had been >introduced. > >> but after an hour or so the concentration will be close to zero. > >How so, if the room is sealed tight and the ambient air is being neither >exhausted nor replenished? In the open air hydrogen cyanide dissipates >rapidly, but if it is released in a sealed enclosure, according to the >kinetic theory of gasses, it merely mixes with the trapped ambient air >until an even concentration of it is reached throughout the enclosure. In >a room full of people some of it, of course will be inhaled and exhaled >until they die. When that happens the last amount that they inhaled in >their death gasp will remain in their lungs. > > > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:40 EDT 2009 Article: 2003380 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <30dce6b5-c867-4e1e-a5fd-34f37e889af3@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:22:30 -0400 Bytes: 2422 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003380 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:17:43 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 26, 5:11 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:49:41 -0500, Sara Salzman >> >> wrote: >> >In article , >> > Topaz wrote: >> >> >>   Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> >The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. >> >> You are quite welcome to await the Soviet soldateska who had been >> instructed to rape German women, girls, and boys to the point of >> death. In general, suicide is not rational, but in the case of >> Goebbels and tens of thousands of other Berliners during that period, >> it most certainly was rational. > Name one German girl, JUST ONE, who was raped by a Soviet soldier. The German state archives claim almost 3 million, including 300,000 fatalities. I'll take their word over your silly claims, ejaculito. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:41 EDT 2009 Article: 2003382 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com> <02b508a8-c3ec-4897-9ba2-e5653bbee9de@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 56 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:27:15 -0400 Bytes: 3441 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003382 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:19:09 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 24, 11:36 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:23:22 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> >> "Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >> >> >>news:KcednZ3XqKnp3ljUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@supernews.com... >> >> > One might also note that there are very, very few valid comparisons >> >> > between Nazi and North American concentration camps. >> >> >> Only because you cunts wrote the history. >> >> >> > One might also note that North Americans did not have the other types of >> >> > camps that the Nazis relied on - the slave labour and death camps. >> >> >> What death camps? >> >   Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. >> >> No Jews would have died in concentration camps had the allies not >> launched WW2. > So the allies invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland? The USSR invaded Poland, or has your feeble memory forgotten. Czechoslovakia was not "invaded", at least not by Germany. The Slovaks asked for German assistance against the oppressive and murderous Czechs. There was a good reason that this ramshackle state fell apart of its own accord around 1990. > >>This was a totally unnecessary war. > Yes, and Hitler could have avoided it. There is nothing that Hitler could have done to avoid WW2, as there was nothing that Saddam could have done to avoid the Iraq invasion. The war decisions were made by others in other places. > >> The so-called >> holocaust™ is a consequence of WW2, not the other way around. The >> holocaust™ industry has ballooned the importance of the persecution of >> Jews during this period beyond all reasonable bounds. It seems that a >> 2,000 page book about WW2 would reasonably contain one or two pages >> about Jews, not the 1999 that the holocaust™ industry would deem >> appropriate. >> > The Holocaust industry was put out of business in 1945. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:41 EDT 2009 Article: 2003383 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com> <02b508a8-c3ec-4897-9ba2-e5653bbee9de@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:27:54 -0400 Bytes: 2995 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003383 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:19:09 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 24, 11:36 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:23:22 -0700 (PDT),Michael Ejercito >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> >> "Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >> >> >>news:KcednZ3XqKnp3ljUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@supernews.com... >> >> > One might also note that there are very, very few valid comparisons >> >> > between Nazi and North American concentration camps. >> >> >> Only because you cunts wrote the history. >> >> >> > One might also note that North Americans did not have the other types of >> >> > camps that the Nazis relied on - the slave labour and death camps. >> >> >> What death camps? >> >   Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc. >> >> No Jews would have died in concentration camps had the allies not >> launched WW2. > So the allies invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland? > >>This was a totally unnecessary war. > Yes, and Hitler could have avoided it. > >> The so-called >> holocaust™ is a consequence of WW2, not the other way around. The >> holocaust™ industry has ballooned the importance of the persecution of >> Jews during this period beyond all reasonable bounds. It seems that a >> 2,000 page book about WW2 would reasonably contain one or two pages >> about Jews, not the 1999 that the holocaust™ industry would deem >> appropriate. >> > The Holocaust industry was put out of business in 1945. LOL On the contrary, their extortion racket is still very much in business in 2009. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:41 EDT 2009 Article: 2003434 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why is McVay a denier? Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com> <6sydnQi9Oe0sXVfUnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@supernews.com> <1uums4p2js3nm4ppfmoj3mn3frrql2etr2@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:05:34 -0400 Bytes: 6484 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003434 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:19:37 -0500, Sara Salzman wrote: >In article <1uums4p2js3nm4ppfmoj3mn3frrql2etr2@4ax.com>, > Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:35:48 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >news:qfcis49s05hngs8me752artf7sfqral8aj@4ax.com... >> >> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:44:09 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>>news:n3n1s4l9577n7b6ormghv6mdrhkcgub170@4ax.com... >> >>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >>>>>news:4pusr4h9ehurriogucsubgt1ohsfjbmm1c@4ax.com... >> >>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>>If he would do some research and speak to those who were in Ike's >> >>>>>>>death camps, he would see the truth. However, he can't do that. >> >>>>>>>Why? Because if the camps(Ike's) existed and the government/ >> >>>>>>>mainstream media denied their existence, then the public would >> >>>>>>>understand that they have been lied to. And if they had been lied to >> >>>>>>>about Ike's camps, then they would wonder as to whether they had been >> >>>>>>>lied to concerning the NAZI death campls. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> It is McVay's denial of Ike's camps and various other examples of >> >>>>>> allied crimes that convinced me that he is quite insincere and that >> >>>>>> his other historical claims are probably also bogus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>What death camps? >> >>>> >> >>>> There were numerous places along the banks of the Rhine where millions >> >>>> were kept imprisoned on open meadows without shelter or food. >> >>>> Relatives were threatened with execution if they brought any food for >> >>>> the captives. The allegedly "noble" allies fall really far short of >> >>>> the mark. >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>Where are the bodies? >> >>>> >> >>>> The Americans carted them off in dump trucks each morning >> >>> >> >>>And you base this on, what, exactly? >> >>> >> >>>Where is the evidence that this happened? >> >>> >> >>>How many dump trucks would be required, and where are the witnesses? >> >>> >> >>>> and they are >> >>>> very unlikely to have given them a decent burial where burial sites >> >>>> could be found today. >> >>> >> >>>So where are they? >> >>> >> >>>How many dump trucks did you say were used? Where are the records of >> >>>these >> >>>trucks? >> >>> >> >>>And where are the witnesses? >> >>> >> >>>Could you stop making things up and present facts for once? >> >> >> >> There were thousands of witnesses to these atrocities, >> > >> >And these witnesses are who, exactly? >> > >> > >> >> including some >> >> relatives of mine. There is a very large discrepancy between the >> >> number of German military personnel known to have been alive and >> >> healthy when the war ended, and the number that returned home by 1956. >> >> Not all of them were murdered in Ike's camps to be sure, but huge >> >> numbers were. >> > >> >Yet you seem singularly unable to provide any real evidence of this claim. >> >You say it's there, but cannot produce it. >> > >> >> >> >> Many of the grave sites have been found, yielding results lower than >> >> Bacques' estimates, but significantly higher than the allied claims of >> >> prisoner losses. >> > >> >And these grave sites are where, exactly? >> > >> >How many dump trucks were there, and where is the documentation? >> > >> >-pk >> > >> >> >> >>> >> >>>-pk >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>How do you explain the gross errors in Bacque's arithmetic and his >> >>>>>refusal >> >>>>>to correct them? >> >>>> >> >>>> What errors are those? His findings make sense and they are consistent >> >>>> with the experiences of people who lived during that time. >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> > >> LOL >> >> I'm not going to allow myself to be sucked into this game. This is the >> standard time-wasting trick employed by holocaustians over and over >> again. >> >> German postwar losses among POWs and civilians is dramatically better >> documented than the holocaust™ stories. >> >> I don't care what you believe. What is important is that I know it to >> be factual, and your opinions will not alter that. > >As Heinrich stamps his little feet and shouts "Because! I! Said! So!" What are you babbling about Sara? > >You have NO facts and ZERO credibility. Thanks for proving it once again. You are clearly either mindlessly stupid or totally insincere. I'm not sure which is the case yet. Incidentally, I'm not Heinrich and German POW losses are extremely well documented. It is hard to take what you say too seriously when you clearly know and understand almost nothing about the period. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:42 EDT 2009 Article: 2003436 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com> <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 192 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:08:55 -0400 Bytes: 10061 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003436 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:23:36 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:58:11 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com... >> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:19:49 +1000, in >> > , "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> news:6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com... >> >> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:56 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> >>news:naods4heee50moi7l9u22cglvi75tdogae@4ax.com... >> >> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:35 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >>> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>>On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:07 -0400, in >> >> >>>><245bs4t282k3revpsfj51gm0bgbpujg67n@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:32:45 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >On 3/21/2009 6:12 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> >>>>> >> news:60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com... >> >> >>>>> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:12:18 -0400, in >> >> >>>>> >>>> <2e57s49bm08qns6i8v5ms4pe4qqvm7perg@4ax.com>, Johannes von >> >> >>>>> >>>> Ebersdorf >> >> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:47 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi >> >> >>>>> >>>>> (Eugene >> >> >>>>> >>>>> Holman) wrote: >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> In article , >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> "B.H. >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> Cramer" >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> news:holman-1803091321000001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone who has taken the task of learning a foreign >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> language >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> culture >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> seriously knows the importance of cultural literacy. Since >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> nobody >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> has yet >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> succeeded in modeling the encyclopedic knowledge about the >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> aspects >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> references that an adult member of a culture can be >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> assumed >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> to >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> know, >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> computer translation only works for the driest and most >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> decontextualized >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>>> texts. >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> And how many people in the world really give a fuck about >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> this >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> feel-good >> >> >>>>> >>>>>>> nonsense, yougenie? Does it really matter? >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> If you are accusing me of "lying" and "making it up as [I] >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> go >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> along" >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> when >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> talking about the connotations and history that >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> *Sonderbehandlung* has >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> had >> >> >>>>> >>>>>> in German since the early 1940s, yes, it really does matter. >> >> >>>>> >>>>> "Sonderbehandlung" is what a postal package containing glass >> >> >>>>> >>>>> or >> >> >>>>> >>>>> other >> >> >>>>> >>>>> fragile material receives at the sorting offices of the >> >> >>>>> >>>>> Deutsche >> >> >>>>> >>>>> Post. >> >> >>>>> >>>>> No hydrogen cyanide is involved in the process. >> >> >>>>> >>>> Wrong. >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main >> >> >>>>> >>>> Security >> >> >>>>> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say >> >> >>>>> >>>> about >> >> >>>>> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >> >> >>>>> >>>> assassinated >> >> >>>>> >>>> in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans could >> >> >>>>> >>>> have >> >> >>>>> >>>> tortured him into writing this): >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes >> >> >>>>> >>>> mit: >> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >> >> >>>>> >>>> üblichen >> >> >>>>> >>>> Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >> >>>>> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >> >> >>>>> >>>> handelt >> >> >>>>> >>>> es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >> >>>>> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer >> >> >>>>> >>>> propagandistischen >> >> >>>>> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >> >>>>> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt >> >> >>>>> >>>> zu >> >> >>>>> >>>> werden. >> >> >>>>> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. The normal word >> >> >>>>> >>> would >> >> >>>>> >>> have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation sounds like postwar work >> >> >>>>> >>> of >> >> >>>>> >>> some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I rather doubt that >> >> >>>>> >>> Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put things in writing >> >> >>>>> >>> in >> >> >>>>> >>> quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have needed a very >> >> >>>>> >>> powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when conventional >> >> >>>>> >>> histories have these measures starting in 1941 and outside of >> >> >>>>> >>> Germany >> >> >>>>> >>> at that. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> Now, now, Johannes. It is verboten to question ole gourd on the >> >> >>>>> >> German >> >> >>>>> >> language. >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> >Better stop kissing his ass, Ben, he's wrong. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> I'm not wrong. Any book I've ever read that talks about executions >> >> >>>>> refers to them as "Hinrichtung". Words like Exekution are clearly >> >> >>>>> transliterations from English >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>I think you mean a Lehnwort (borrowed word), not a transliteration. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> In addition, many German "translations" I have seen have obviously >> >> >>> started out life as an English text and were simply translated word >> >> >>> for word into the equivalent German words but totally destroying the >> >> >>> standard word order and word usage in German. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> A lot of the forgeries were pretty clumsy since neither the >> >> >>> defendants >> >> >>> nor their lawyers were permitted to see the "documents", so the >> >> >>> quality of the forgery was irrelevant. >> >> >> >> >> >>Interesting comment. >> >> >> >> >> >>I showed a colleague of mine, a German born woman, the facsimilies of >> >> >>the >> >> >>Wannsee documents. Her comment after reading part of it was that in her >> >> >>opinion the writer was not a native speaker of German. >> >> > >> >> > I got the same impression on reading this material. It looked like the >> >> > work of some "mack snell" type of American whose command of German was >> >> > of the same low quality as that of some drunken Polish peasant. >> >> >> >> We're led to believe this document was written by none other than >> >> Eichmann >> >> himself. >> >> >> >> Was German not his native language? >> > >> > He was Austrian and by almost every account, his German was lousy. >> >> Obviously. At least you now seem to be prepared to admit the language used >> in the Wannsee document is a bit dodgy. > >The language used in the Wannsee Protocol is dry, arcane bureaucratic >German, yes. I have never said otherwise. Ben, you know I am a >bureaucrat. I am the first to admit that bureaucrats do not write >beautiful language. Having seen photocopies of the Wannsee Protocols, I would say that dry arcane German is the least of their problems. It seems, like in so many other cases, that the originals are nowhere to be found and all that remains are these allied "official" copies of a copy that were clearly typed on an American typewriter. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:42 EDT 2009 Article: 2003443 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com> <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7u7l@4ax.com> <333d83d5-a24a-415a-baa5-c0ce6c2d0660@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:12:46 -0400 Bytes: 3132 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003443 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:30:13 -0700 (PDT), Zulu wrote: >On 26 mar, 22:34, RJ11 wrote: >> In article <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7...@4ax.com>, >> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote: >> >> > It was designed as a slow release fumigant >> >>    No,  it was not. >> >>    "The development of the gas from the Zyklon sets in with great >> vehemence immediately following the pouring out of it.  The thinner >> the layer of the disseminated support material the faster will be the >> development of the gas." >> >>    Source:  Dr. Gerhard Peters' book on Zyklon,http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/peters-1933/htm/intro00.htm >> > >You didn't explain very well why SS became suddenly idiots when they >had to use Zyclon B to kill industrially people. >Why did the chose to waste 7,5 to 50 more Zyclon than necessary. >Why did they throw away their pellets of Zyclon containing at least >50% of gas HCN after each "industrial gassing"? > >Not to mention the WRONG VENTILATION SYSTEM of those supposed "gas >chambers"... >Not to mention the less than 1 m width door to a room where 2000-3000 >people had to enter and then had their cadavers transported. >Not to mention the tiny 2.15 m x 1.35 m lift installed to transport >upstairs 2000-3000 cadavers... >BTW why did they put their "gas chambers" underground and the ovens >uptairs? > >Please, explain well that amazing lack of "industrial rationality" by >those Germans... > >Admitting that Hitler decided to "exterminate 11 millions of European >jews", do you think serioulsy that German engineers wouldn't have done >better than that pile of absurdities that you call "an industrial plan >to murder" at so inadequate places? Personally, I figure that had he REALLY given that order, there would be zero survivors. > >If you can't answer that, ask any engineer... From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:43 EDT 2009 Article: 2003447 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <60mas49ue7s7ii5et19mmr1fb25jc9fevd@4ax.com> <54udnXepn8J1oFrUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:14:37 -0400 Bytes: 5916 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003447 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:41:37 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:40:51 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:qlkhs4h8nbu31ept1ljsvm91m8rejlnuhh@4ax.com... >> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:44:30 +1000, in >> > <54udnXepn8J1oFrUnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> news:tucds41hjl5dtvsgsl7skftrpfr30eufpb@4ax.com... >> >> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:20:44 +1000, in >> >> > , "B.H. Cramer" >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> >> >> news:d95bs4hcedca0c29mhm3h0a6e92fjf59kg@4ax.com... >> >> >> > On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:31:36 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >> > >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>On 3/21/2009 5:17 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:47 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>[...] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Here is what Reinhard Heydrich, Chief of the Reich Main Security >> >> >> >>>> Office, and responsible for the "Jewish question" had to say >> >> >> >>>> about >> >> >> >>>> "Sonderbehandlung" in 1939. (Remember that Heydrich was >> >> >> >>>> assassinated in 1942, long before the nasty Russians or Americans >> >> >> >>>> could have tortured him into writing this): >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Zur Beseitigung aller Mißverständnisse teile ich folgendes mit: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> ...ist zu unterscheiden zwischen solchen, die auf dem bisher >> >> >> >>>> üblichen Wege erledigt werden können, und solchen, welche einer >> >> >> >>>> Sonderbehandlung zugeführt werden müssen. Im letzteren Falle >> >> >> >>>> handelt es sich um solche Sachverhalte, die hinsichtlich ihrer >> >> >> >>>> Verwerflichkeit, ihrer Gefährlichkeit oder ihrer >> >> >> >>>> propagandistischen >> >> >> >>>> Auswirkung geeignet sind, ohne Ansehung der Person durch >> >> >> >>>> rücksichtloses Vorgehen (nämlich durch Exekution) ausgemerzt zu >> >> >> >>>> werden. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> "Exekution" is really unusual German useage. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Really? Is the reason why when I input "exekution" into Google and >> >> >> >>ask >> >> >> >>for returns in German, the result is: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>"Results 1 - 10 of about 407,000 German pages for Exekution. (0.25 >> >> >> >>seconds) " >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> The normal word would have been "Hinrichtung". The quotation >> >> >> >>> sounds >> >> >> >>> like postwar work of some allied propaganda stooge. In any case, I >> >> >> >>> rather doubt that Heyrich would have been stupid enough to put >> >> >> >>> things >> >> >> >>> in writing in quite such a blatant fashion. The guy would have >> >> >> >>> needed >> >> >> >>> a very powerful crystal ball to foresee that in 1939 when >> >> >> >>> conventional histories have these measures starting in 1941 and >> >> >> >>> outside of Germany at that. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>That wasn't what he was saying, and you would know that if you >> >> >> >>understood German and English correctly. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I understand both at the university level. You, like Kenneth, seem >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > be an uneducated buffoon. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sadly, he's supposedly quite well educated, although, a disclaimer >> >> >> might >> >> >> be >> >> >> required. Much of his "education" was earned in the Americas. You >> >> >> know - >> >> >> the >> >> >> place where a Graduate Degree is the equivalent of a high school >> >> >> diploma >> >> >> in >> >> >> Australia or Europe. >> >> > >> >> > That earns you 1.5 on the Troll-O-Meter. Not bad. >> >> >> >> I've posted facts, silly, desperate old man. >> > >> > I gave you credit for your troll attempt. >> >> Rather backhanded, don't you think? > >The way Holman, Keenan and Webb are wiping the floor with you lately, >you should be thankful for any credit you get, including backhanded. You seem to be dreaming in technicolor. Holman is verbose and Keenan and Webb are air-heads whose writings are pretty much devoid of content. Holman, at least, has something to say. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:43 EDT 2009 Article: 2003454 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:19:09 -0400 Bytes: 3758 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003454 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:53:07 -0500, Sara Salzman wrote: >In article <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com>, > Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:23:28 -0500, Sara Salzman >> wrote: >> >> >In article , >> > "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> > >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> >> news:catamont-3FB433.19494125032009@news-40.giganews.com... >> >> > In article , >> >> > Topaz wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> >> > The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. >> >> >> >> He did not murder his own children, sara my dear. His wife poisoned the >> >> children. >> >> >> >> But please don't let facts get in the way of another of your hate rants. >> > >> >It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >> >children murdered, he could have stopped it. >> >> They would have been murdered by the allied "liberators" anyway, and >> in a much more brutal and debased fashion. >> >> >Really? When did you become a mind reader? Goering's wife wasn't >murdered or debased. In fact, NONE of the wives of any of the Nuremberg >defendants (which Goebbels would have been) were murdered. > >And NONE of their children were murdered. Goering's daughter went on to >live a long life... Gundrun Burwitz Himmler lived a long life... >Eichmann's children lived long lives... Florrie Rost van Tonningen lived >a long life... Wolf-Rediger Hess, Martin Bormann Jr., Niklas and Norman >Frank, and Klaus von Schirach all lived long lives. > >Your assumption about the fate of the Goebbels children is idiotic. No Sara, you are just putting your head into the sand to avoid the obvious. Tens of thousands of children were murdered by the Soviet soldiers those first few weeks in Berlin. None of the bunch you listed were captured by USSR soldiers. The National Socialists were certainly not nice people, but it does not follow that the allies were much better. >> >> >> > That makes him an >> >accomplice. And afterwards, he and his wife offed themselves. >> > >> >Or are you going to claim that "yids" did it? From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:43 EDT 2009 Article: 2003456 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <30dce6b5-c867-4e1e-a5fd-34f37e889af3@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:22:04 -0400 Bytes: 1909 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003456 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:36:02 +0000 (UTC), NoSpamAtAll wrote: >In article , >Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:17:43 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito >> wrote: > >>> Name one German girl, JUST ONE, who was raped by a Soviet soldier. > >> The German state archives claim almost 3 million, including 300,000 >> fatalities. > >But no physical evidence there, huh? There was physical evidence at the time the archive documentation was created. There usually isn't much evidence of rape after sixty years, or even evidence of murders. You seem to be as timid as you are loudmouthed with your NoSpamAtAll hiding place. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:44 EDT 2009 Article: 2003460 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <5iaos4d0nublro4d5cgk4ssudpnrd4pqk8@4ax.com> References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <30dce6b5-c867-4e1e-a5fd-34f37e889af3@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <43a3cb66-967c-48a0-8047-624e31708c27@q2g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:23:06 -0400 Bytes: 2694 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003460 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:53:00 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >On Mar 26, 12:17 pm, Michael Ejercito wrote: >> On Mar 26, 5:11 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> wrote:> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:49:41 -0500, Sara Salzman >> >> > wrote: >> > >In article , >> > > Topaz wrote: >> >> > >>   Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> > >The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. >> >> > You are quite welcome to await the Soviet soldateska who had been >> > instructed to rape German women, girls, and boys to the point of >> > death. In general, suicide is not rational, but in the case of >> > Goebbels and tens of thousands of other Berliners during that period, >> > it most certainly was rational. >> >>    Name one German girl, JUST ONE, who was raped by a Soviet soldier. >> >>  Michael > >Your question indicates that you do not believe that Soviet soldiers >raped German girls. Is that your position? It appears to be, proving that either he is one of the most stupid people in existence or he is being totally insincere and just trying to disrupt the newsgroup. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:44 EDT 2009 Article: 2003462 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8laos4h2idqd8lco5a0btfbbcdrelfr5og@4ax.com> References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <06acd31b-7391-4a35-ac96-65b291e83e9e@q18g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:24:28 -0400 Bytes: 2629 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003462 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:49:07 -0700 (PDT), "Bent Attorney Esq." wrote: >On Mar 26, 9:11 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:49:41 -0500, Sara Salzman >> >> wrote: >> >In article , >> > Topaz wrote: >> >> >>   Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> >The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way out. >> >> You are quite welcome to await the Soviet soldateska who had been >> instructed to rape German women, girls, and boys to the point of >> death. In general, suicide is not rational, but in the case of >> Goebbels and tens of thousands of other Berliners during that period, >> it most certainly was rational. >> >> On the other hand, perhaps it is your wet dream to be gang-raped by >> fifty or sixty unwashed, STD-infested Red Army louts. > >When Ghengis Khan had Beijing by the balls, many young girls went up >onto the city walls and jumped to their deaths. It was a better fate >than what awaited them. During the first few weeks of the Soviet entry into Berlin, suicides ran at a rate of about ten thousand per week. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:45 EDT 2009 Article: 2003874 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <979ss4l7hsi5sq2nmm6th9juaa91vfffih@4ax.com> References: <93cds4tl4cjilp4bfgclu3go0ajkr444uk@4ax.com> <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:26:13 -0400 Bytes: 2901 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003874 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:45:34 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:23:36 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: > > >> >The language used in the Wannsee Protocol is dry, arcane bureaucratic >> >German, yes. I have never said otherwise. Ben, you know I am a >> >bureaucrat. I am the first to admit that bureaucrats do not write >> >beautiful language. >> >> Having seen photocopies of the Wannsee Protocols, I would say that dry >> arcane German is the least of their problems. It seems, like in so >> many other cases, that the originals are nowhere to be found and all >> that remains are these allied "official" copies of a copy that were >> clearly typed on an American typewriter. > >Quatsch! Go to http://www.ghwk.de/deut/proto.htm and click on the link to >"Gesamtprotokoll in Farbe als *pdf-Datei (2,9 MB)". The first page of >this, noted to be the 16th of thirty copies of the protocol, has ß >(Eszet), ä, ö, and ü (the umlauted a, o, and u), and the SS rune. How many >American typewriters of the era had this array of characters? Thanks for the reference. I downloaded the material and will take a closer look at it. The fact remains, that even Israeli notables like the director of the Yad Vashem museum in Jerusalem are unconvinced about the significance of the so-called Wannsee Conference. > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:45 EDT 2009 Article: 2003877 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <3e9ss4pi782p9cfrh9jmpv4r1050o12ouo@4ax.com> References: <6d4fs4dns03cvdpalgueguvh2u4ajm7ub2@4ax.com> <294js45qvbhm88un9n5lvtnmveppfmvre7@4ax.com> <3jlms45bs86s9147r3klm521ve08prmc2m@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 167 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:31:39 -0400 Bytes: 9233 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003877 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 07:34:38 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:44:32 -0400, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> wrote: >> >> >On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:49:00 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> >Holman) wrote: > > >> >>Nevertheless, they speak it markedly differently than those Germans who >> >>are not Bavarians. Hitler, also an Austrian, used a grammatically complex, >> >>lexically Germanic elements favoring German in his public speeches, but he >> >>made no effort to conceal his small-town Austrian background by modifying >> >>his pronunciation or intonation. The overall impression one gains from his >> >>public speech style is that he was a yokel who had made it big time. I >> >>might add, that the Finns managed to record a snittpe of his >> >>conversational speech style and found it quite different from that of the >> >>public Hitler (listen at >> > >> >I have seen videos of Hitler speaking, and there is nothing unusual >> >about his pronunciation, > >- His extremely prominent Zungenspitzen-"r", regarded even then by most >Germans as a provincialism. The rolling "r" pronunciation is typical Austrian as the slow vowels are characteristic of the people in Georgia and Tennessee. It means exactly nothing. I personally don't make my "r" sounds in the Austrian fashion, but it doesn't follow that Austrians don't speak good German. Please spare me the German lesson. I have spoken German since infancy. The German language, like all others, has significant geographical variations. >- His exceptionally wide tessitura. >- His manner of modulating his voice, so that the same sentence can >contain grubling and shouting and still sound like it is produced by a >sane person. >- His clear enunciation of schwa as a mid-low front unrounded vowel (eta) >in unstressed syllables: hatten ['hatEn] rather than ['hat@n] or ['hatn]. >- His timing and use of silence for dramatic effect. > >Hitler's pronunciation is unusual enough that: >1. His small-town southern origin is immediately noticeable. >2. His voice usage and pattern of presentation makes his pronunciation >uniquely distinct among the leading German politicians of the day. > >The fact that he did not permit is private, extemporaneous speech to be >recorded also means that a distorted image of him, the eternal public >speaker, has remained in people's minds. We don't have recordings of him >answering questions at press conferences or being interviewed. That tiny >snippet secretly recorded by the Finns is, as far as we know, the sole >example that we have of his everyday, informal, spontaneous speech >patterns. > >Listen to the soldier introducing Hitler at the 1934 Nuremberg party rally >in a relatively north-central German declamatory style, and then to Hitler >himself to hear the difference at >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgqfDSP73Q. > >> > which in any case, would not make any >> >difference in written work. People in Atlanta sound different from New >> >Yorkers, but that wouldn't be noticed on a typed page, only when they >> >are speaking. > >In their written work they might use a local word or grammatical >structure. Written English is not 100% uniform in the United States. The >verb 'to tote', for example, is quite common in the spoken and written >English of the southwest, but hardly used in writing elsewhere. As soon as >you cross the border from Germany to Austria you notice that Sparkasse >becomes Sparkassa, Januar becomes Jänner, and Tomate becomes Paradeiser. >For details, see http://www.ostarrichi.org/index.html. > > >> >> >> >>Austria has a different history than Germany and principalities that were >> >>its predecessors. >> >> The history of Germany and Austria are identical from 768 until 1806. >> Austria was just another German state, just like Bavaria or >> Württemberg. > >But it isn't now, and hasn't been since 1945. That's close to three >generations. >> >> > It is a matter of definition whether Austrians are >> >>ethnically or even culturally German. >> >> Ridiculous. The area now known as Austria was settled by Bavarians a >> bit over 1000 years ago. > >Most of North America was settled by Englishmen starting in the 1600s. >Americans and Canadians nevertheless regard themselves as being of >different ethnicities than the English or each other. The Serbs and the >Croats, despite speaking virtually the same language and having a history >of living in a common state, nevertheless regard each other as being >distinct and mutually antagonistic ethnicities. > >The fact of the matter is that concepts such as "ethnicty" and "race" are >ill defined socio-psychological constructs that can be and often are >manipulated by the powers tht be. Not all Austrians were as pan-German as >Hitler was, and the Anschluss of Austria to Nazi Germany in 1938 was >preceded by some rather murderous backroom plotting in Austria. > >> >Linguistically, they are German >> >>speaking, but so are the majority of the inhabitants of Switzerland. >> >> Do you suppose that this might have something to do with the fact that >> what is now Switzerland was part of Germany until 1648? They didn't >> "accidentally" become German-speaking. > >Of course not. But they embarked upon a distinct course of development >that left them culturally, linguistically, and politically distinct from >other Germans. Just as dialects arise from languages due to borders, >either natural or man-made, often eventually evolving into distinct >languages, groups of people branch off from an older ethnicity and >establish new ones. The Finns and the Estonians were once of the same >ethnicity, they aren't any more. > >> >>Having spent time in Germany and Austria, I maintain that Austria and >> >>Germany are distinct in many ways, particularly in the fact that Slavic >> >>(Slovenian, Czech, Slovak) and Hungarian influences, particularly in >> >>cuisine but also in people's surnames, are far more evident in Austria >> >>than they are in Germany. >> >> There are lots of Polish names in the Rheinland, but that doesn't mean >> that the area is under Polish influence. It just means that some >> miners from Poland moved there because the money was better than in >> Poland. > >True enough. But you are unlikely to find a Polish food such as Bigos on a >non-ethnic restairant menu in the Rhineland. In Austria, on the other >hand, Hungarian, Slovak, and Slovenian foods are integrated into the >national cuisine and thus eaten everywhere. > >> >Many Austrians go out of their way to make it >> >>clear that their identity is Austrian, not German. >> >> More than a century of anti-German propaganda has to have some effect. > >I'm certainly not challenging that. Ethnicities being socio-psychological >constructs, they are easily manipulated. Hitler convinced the Austrians >that they were Germans, post-war Austrian (and German) governments have >done a good job of convincing them that they are not. > >> From time to time there have been separatist sentiments in the >> Rheinland as well, but certainly not the bulk of the population. >> >> >Whether this issue of >> >>self-identification suffices to justify the existence of an Austrian >> >>ethnicity is difficut to say. >> >> The first line of the Austrian constitution in 1919 stated quite >> clearly and unequivocally that "Österreich ist ein Teil des Deutschen >> Reiches", but the allies wouldn't permit it. > >That has been revised to and internationally agreed that "Österreich ist >kein Teil des Deutschen Reiches" :-) > >Divide et impera! > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:46 EDT 2009 Article: 2003878 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2ZKdnUleq5_8aVTUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com> <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com> <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7u7l@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:36:27 -0400 Bytes: 3915 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003878 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 03:32:13 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7u7l@4ax.com>, >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:42:07 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene >> Holman) wrote: > >> >> Zyklon-B wasn't devoloped to kill people. It was intended as a >> fumigant for the holds of ships. > >No, it was designed as a substance rgar would allow a trained fumigator to >use the high (10,000 - 15,000 ppm maintained for as long as 72 hours ) >concentrations of cyanide needed to kill vermin on ordinary rooms, >buildings, train cars, tents, and holds of ships, provided that the proper >precautions were taken. It goes without saying that any people trapped in >a place where Zyklon-B was being used in its normal manner would die >quickly, since no more than 300 ppm maintained for ten to fifteen minutes >is lethal to humans. > >> It was designed as a slow release >> fumigant so that it would have some staying power. > >No it wasn't. It was designed to release the majority of its cyanide >within the first hour of exposure to the ambient air so that the >concentration needed to kill vermin, far in excess of what is needed to >kill human beings, could be established and maintained in the premise >being fumigated. How are you going to attain a concentration of cyanide in >excess of 10,000 ppm if you have a slow release agent? How long, by your >reckoning, will it take to reach the 300 ppm threshold if fumigation >requires establishing and maintaining a 15,000 ppm concentration, fifty >times higher? Why do the instructions for the use of Zyklon-B emphasize >that the exterminator must wear a gas mask when applying it? If it were a >slow release fumigant such a precaution would be unnecessary. And most >importantly, why does the research on Zyklon-B carried out by the Germans >during the 1930s and 1940s, e.g. R. Irmscher's 'Nochmals: "Die >Einsatzfähigkeit der Blausäure bei tiefen Temperaturen"' >http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.de, >stand in sharp contradiction to your unsubstantiated claim? > > > >Regards, >Eugene Holman Sorry, Eugene, but no sale. Pellets of KCN dropped into sulphuric acid would have been dramatically cheaper, as well as easier to handle and transport if the intent were to kill people. Zyklon-B was ordered in, despite its relatively high cost, because the intent was to eliminate disease-carrying lice. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:46 EDT 2009 Article: 2003885 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <18ums4pgncot2ea6i4bp4hl25oq95m7rf7@4ax.com> <8asns41se0hekun37nk89d59e82d0v7u7l@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:43:42 -0400 Bytes: 3522 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003885 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:59:18 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote: >In article , "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> news:holman-2703091006070001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> > In article , "B.H. Cramer" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >> >> news:holman-2703090332130001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > No, it was designed as a substance rgar would allow a trained fumigator >> >> > to >> >> > use the high (10,000 - 15,000 ppm maintained for as long as 72 hours ) >> >> > concentrations of cyanide needed to kill vermin on ordinary rooms, >> >> > buildings, train cars, tents, and holds of ships, >> >> >> >> How were they going to maintain that level in structure that was not >> >> airtight unless the gas was continuously being released? >> >> >> >> You've fucked up again, yougenie. >> > >> > You seel all openings. >> >> How the fuck do you "seel"[sic] all openings in a house, you drongo? > >By replacing the second "e" in "seel"[sic] with an "a" and getting a hold >of a roll of high quality duct tape. Are you sure that your "duct tape" isn't an anachronism? I know you can buy it at a Canadian Tire store, but I'm not so sure that it would have been available in Germany in the early forties. Besides, the whole "gas chamber" setup is so makeshift and amateurish as to strain credulity that this is the best that the number two industrial state on earth could design in terms of "industrial" extermination. Your average meat processing factory or automobile plant represent "industrial solutions" to various problems. The alleged gas chambers would be hilarious if the topic were not so macabre. > You know that you have painted >yourself into a corner, so you are using diversionary tactics. >Nevertheless, ou can't hide the absurdity of your position. What's a >drongo? > >Regards, >Eugene Holman From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:47 EDT 2009 Article: 2003887 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <49c5817b@news.x-privat.org> <3ae846ab-d75e-41e6-b78b-5ce65fbe3e83@z14g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:52:38 -0400 Bytes: 8546 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003887 On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 01:54:34 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 21, 8:08 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> Hiroshima Facts escribió: >> > On Mar 20, 9:00 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> > wrote: >> >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts >> >> wrote: >> >>> On Mar 16, 1:27 pm, ZuLu wrote: >> >>>> Eugene Holman escribió: >> >>>>> In article , >> >>>>> ebersd...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>> How many counts of murder should the former crew of the 'Enola Gay' be >> >>>>>>> charged with? >> >>>>>> That particular civilian atrocity has the support of the bulk of >> >>>>>> brainwashed Americans. >> >>>>> There is the matter of relativity here. The Japanese stated conclusively >> >>>>> that they would never surrender. The US demonstrated that it had what at >> >>>>> that time was the ultimate weapon, and more than one of them, causing the >> >>>>> Japanese to rethink their options. They surrendered within a week. >> >>>>> As far as I know, the crew of the 'Enola Gay' was not even given specific >> >>>>> information about what they were dropping. They were just following the >> >>>>> bits and pieces of the orders they had been issued, the overall results of >> >>>>> which were not clear from the orders issuedto each individual, in a >> >>>>> military situation in a war zone. The position of the crew of the Enola >> >>>>> Gay' was in no way comparable to what Karl Frenzel, third in command, was >> >>>>> doing at Sobibor: consigning all civilian deportees but those who were >> >>>>> young, healthy, and had skills deperately needed by the Germans, to the >> >>>>> gas chambers. >> >>>>> More than a hundred thousand people in the two atomic bombings and >> >>>>> arguably another hundred thousand have died concsequent to them, but the >> >>>>> alternative would have been an invasion of Japan by the US and the USSR, >> >>>>> millions of deaths on both sides, the destruction of cities, >> >>>>> infrastructure, cultural monuments, and territorial losses for Japan far >> >>>>> greater than the Kurile Islands, lost to the Soviets, and Okinawa, >> >>>>> captured and occupied by the Americans. >> >>>> Eugene, you need to study a bit more that question >> >>>> "The conventional arguments for dropping the bomb--to prevent an invasion and to >> >>>> force Japan to surrender--are not the real reasons for dropping the atomic bomb on >> >>>> Japan. The truth is that President Truman made a conscious and calculated decision to >> >>>> drop the atomic bomb on Japan in order to intimidate the Soviet Union and force the >> >>>> Russians to accept American leadership and domination of the post-war world." >> >>>>http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomic.htm >> >>> Nice bit of fiction, but the US government was actually quite >> >>> concerned about the casualties we would suffer from an invasion. The >> >>> Soviets were at best an afterthought. >> >>> And the notion that we were trying to establish "American domination" >> >>> is fatuous. The concern about the Soviets was the way they were >> >>> systematically wiping out freedom and democracy around the world. >> >>>> Official Bombing Order, July 25, 1945 >> >>>> The written order for the use of the atomic bomb against Japanese cities was drafted >> >>>> by General Groves. President Truman and Secretary of War Stimson approved the order >> >>>> at Potsdam. >> >>>> The order made no mention of targetting military objectives or sparing civilians. The >> >>>> cities themselves were the targets. The order was also open-ended. "Additional bombs" >> >>>> could be dropped "as soon as made ready by the project staff." >> >>>> Source: U.S. National Archives, Record Group 77, Records of the Office of the Chief >> >>>> of Engineers, Manhattan Engineer District, TS Manhattan Project File '42 to '46, >> >>>> Folder 5B "(Directives, Memos, Etc. to and from C/S, S/W, etc.)." >> >>>>http://www.dannen.com/decision/handy.html >> >>> That's nice. Doesn't change the fact that the reason the cities were >> >>> chosen was because of their overwhelming military significance though. >> >> LOL >> >> >> They were so significant that they had never been bombed up to that >> >> point. The fact is that the Americans needed "virgin targets" for this >> >> civilian atrocity, and that was the two cities' only significance. >> >> > Nope. The significance of Hiroshima was that it was a major military >> > center with tens of thousands of soldiers, and it contained the >> > military headquarters in charge of repelling any invasion in the >> > southern half of Japan. >> >> (2) Hiroshima - This is an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle >> of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a >> large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which >> are likely to produce a focussing effect which would considerably increase the blast >> damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target. (Classified as an AA Target) >> >> ... >> >> 7. Psychological Factors in Target Selection >> >> A. It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great >> importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect >> against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the >> importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is >> released. >> >> B. In this respect Kyoto has the advantage of the people being more highly >> intelligent and hence better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon. >> Hiroshima has the advantage of being such a size and with possible focussing from >> nearby mountains that a large fraction of the city may be destroyed. The Emperor's >> palace in Tokyo has a greater fame than any other target but is of least strategic value. >> >> http://www.dannen.com/decision/targets.html >> >> Here you have the reasons. >> >> Major destruction together with major psychological effects and a great spectacle to >> the world. >> >> Hiroshima was the best choice. >> >> Military targets were obviously merely accessory- They just served to give some >> excuse later and give you good conscience, if it is possible. > >Major destruction was the reason for dropping the bombs in the first >place. Terrorism was the reason. The attacks were war crimes. > >Hiroshima being a major military port was the reason it was selected >as the location for the major destruction. If the city had military installations, it would have been legitimate to attack the military installations. It is a war crime to attack the entire city. > >We didn't need an excuse. American war mongers never do. > We were at war, and were justified in >trying to scare Japan into surrendering. Naturally, this freedom is limited to American militarists. Anybody else doing something similar would be denounced as a war criminal. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:47 EDT 2009 Article: 2003890 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: 29,000 murder charges Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49be8c12@news.x-privat.org> <29fb58d2-45ba-48b4-94db-50698a7bb6a2@c9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <1ISdnaYiefrLrFnUnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com> <316dc300-de15-47c0-8142-af26df33e529@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:55:48 -0400 Bytes: 2266 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003890 On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 01:56:46 -0700 (PDT), Hiroshima Facts wrote: >On Mar 20, 8:14 pm, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> >> The bombings of this type of civilian infrastructure was nothing but >> retribution. > >Major military centers don't really constitute "civilian >infrastructure". An attack on a whole city is a war crime, regardless of what specific items of military significance might be there. > >Manufacturing centers devoted to weapons production could count as >civilian infrastructure I guess, but the reason for bombing it is to >destroy the weapons factories. Had they simply attacked the factories, that would have been legitimate, but attacks on whole cities are never legitimate. Any nuclear attack on any city is automatically a war crime and all the people responsible deserve to be hanged. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:47 EDT 2009 Article: 2003894 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c3a3c3$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c43b60$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c59230$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5ce8c$0$7277$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:00:31 -0400 Bytes: 3389 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003894 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:09:20 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:34:15 -0400, in >, "Patrick Keenan" > wrote: > >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> news:amdds45d719qad6vc0g7dvh70rm9srv03d@4ax.com... >> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:37:16 +1100, in >> > <49c5ce8c$0$7277$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> What "neutral source" claims that the the Jewish world population >> >> >> remained about the same, or increased slightly, over the war years? I >> >> >> saw >> >> >> no such source listed, and its the foundation of your claim. >> >> > >> >> > Try the World Almanac, cloth ears. You could easily have used Google to >> >> > do >> >> > a search as well. >> >> >> >> Its your evidence. Post a link to it. >> > >> > As you are seeing, Ben gets quite annoyed when asked to actually, >> > gasp... provide support for his statements. >> >> And his annoyance really takes off when it's pointed out that the actaul >> books he thinks he's referring to don't turn out to support his claims. >> >> Again, the World Almanacs used pre-war census data until the 1949 edition. >> >> The 1948 edition - and I'm looking at a photocopy of the 1948 edition page >> right now - says explicitly that it uses a *1939* population estimate of >> 15,688,259. >> >> The 1949 edition was the first to use post-war data, and that one provides a >> 1948 estimate of 11,266,600. >> >> "Mr. Cramer" knows this very well. It's been pointed out to him >> repeatedly. His attempts to explain it away are laughable. > He has to. Holofucks have no other choice. As soon as their "evidence" is shown to be fabricated, they have to dismiss the proof. They can't disprove it, so they dismiss it. It's the holofuck way. You seem to be projecting, gourd. > >[...] From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:48 EDT 2009 Article: 2003896 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:02:38 -0400 Bytes: 7919 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003896 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:16:11 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:34:40 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >> news:ni2js4p88ouov5hrp747qje05qcirankv5@4ax.com... >> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee >> > wrote: >> > >> >>On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >> >>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >> >>> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >>> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in >> >>> >> > message >> >>> >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >>> >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in >> >>> >> >>> message >> >>> >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >>> >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >>> >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >>> >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote in >> >>> >> >>>>>>> message >> >>> >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means used >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> to >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or that >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> it did >> >>> >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying what >> >>> >> >>>>>> you >> >>> >> >>>>>> don't >> >>> >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on >> >>> >> >>>>> countless >> >>> >> >>>>> occasions. >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery again. >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >> >>> >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more >> >>> >> >>> than one >> >>> >> >>> occasion. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > You lying cunt. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is the >> >>> >> invariable response of a crank to either: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> a) Make personal insults, >> >>> >> b) Change the subject, or >> >>> >> c) Both of the above. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you won't >> >>> >> even >> >>> >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the idiocy >> >>> >> of >> >>> >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to yourself >> >>> >> as well. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to >> >>> >> what >> >>> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Do you? >> >>> > >> >>> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >> >>> >> >>> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? >> >> >> >>Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >> >>description of people like you and Cramer. >> > >> > You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different >> > levels. You're the person trying to force his interpretation of >> > history onto others. >> >> Something else he denies. > >It is a lie. > >> >I don't care whether you believe that the earth >> > is flat, but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and >> > gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth >> > concept. It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The >> > situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your >> > model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and >> > consistency. >> >> The sad thing is, these clowns do now allow there are serious questions >> about their Holocaust(tm) shite. They will jail any and all who have the >> audacity to critically examine and challenge the yid version of events. > >Speaking of lies, the master strikes. > >> Truth does not require maintenance or draconian legislation to protect it >> from scrutiny. Lies do. > >Non sequitur and untrue. Historically, it has always been lies that required legislative support. The truth tends to stand on its own without the assistance of death squads, kangaroo courts, or arsonists. > >[...] From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:48 EDT 2009 Article: 2003898 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <6hbss4d80gcspelgbseahcodrc1e8or9a1@4ax.com> References: <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 200 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:07:17 -0400 Bytes: 9052 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003898 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:58:34 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:m4aos4dos6hibc2vqahi48d508nmqqlp9c@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:34:40 +1000, in >> , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>> news:ni2js4p88ouov5hrp747qje05qcirankv5@4ax.com... >>> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >>On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >>> >>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >>> >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >>> >>> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >>> >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >>> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in >>> >>> >> > message >>> >>> >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >>> >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in >>> >>> >> >>> message >>> >>> >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >>> >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> >>> >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >>> >>> >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> in >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> message >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> used >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> to >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> that >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> it did >>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying >>> >>> >> >>>>>> what >>> >>> >> >>>>>> you >>> >>> >> >>>>>> don't >>> >>> >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on >>> >>> >> >>>>> countless >>> >>> >> >>>>> occasions. >>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery >>> >>> >> >>>>> again. >>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >>> >>> >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more >>> >>> >> >>> than one >>> >>> >> >>> occasion. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > You lying cunt. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is >>> >>> >> the >>> >>> >> invariable response of a crank to either: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> a) Make personal insults, >>> >>> >> b) Change the subject, or >>> >>> >> c) Both of the above. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you >>> >>> >> won't >>> >>> >> even >>> >>> >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the >>> >>> >> idiocy >>> >>> >> of >>> >>> >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to >>> >>> >> yourself >>> >>> >> as well. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as >>> >>> >> to >>> >>> >> what >>> >>> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Do you? >>> >>> > >>> >>> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >>> >>> >>> >>> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? >>> >> >>> >>Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >>> >>description of people like you and Cramer. >>> > >>> > You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different >>> > levels. You're the person trying to force his interpretation of >>> > history onto others. >>> >>> Something else he denies. >> >> It is a lie. >> >>> >I don't care whether you believe that the earth >>> > is flat, but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and >>> > gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth >>> > concept. It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The >>> > situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your >>> > model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and >>> > consistency. >>> >>> The sad thing is, these clowns do now allow there are serious questions >>> about their Holocaust(tm) shite. They will jail any and all who have the >>> audacity to critically examine and challenge the yid version of events. >> >> Speaking of lies, the master strikes. > > >"Mr. Cramer" does not even notice that *his own* non-incarcerated status >disproves his assertion. It only means that the holocaust™ industry doesn't have quite as much influence in Australia as it apparently does in Germany and a few other EU countries economically dependent on Germany. Were I still living in Germany and somebody asked if I believed in the holocaust™ stories without question, I would answer "German law requires that I believe, so I do." whereas in Canada, it doesn't, so I don't. > > >>> Truth does not require maintenance or draconian legislation to protect it >>> from scrutiny. Lies do. >> >> Non sequitur and untrue. > >And "Mr. Cramer" will proceed to reject all slander and libel laws, despite >the effect that would have on people like Mr. Irving, who attempt to impose >a reputation through legal means. > >-pk > >> >> [...] >> >> -- >> Gord McFee >> I' l write no line before its time >> >> Visit the Holocaust History Project >> http://www.holocaust-history.org From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:49 EDT 2009 Article: 2003900 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 148 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:08:57 -0400 Bytes: 7513 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003900 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:14:53 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:44:10 -0400, in >, Johannes von Ebersdorf > wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf >> > wrote: >> > >> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >> >> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >> >> >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >> >> >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >> >> >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote in message >> >> >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means used to >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >> >> >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or that it did >> >> >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying what you >> >> >> >>>>>> don't >> >> >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on countless >> >> >> >>>>> occasions. >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery again. >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >> >> >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more than one >> >> >> >>> occasion. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > You lying cunt. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is the >> >> >> invariable response of a crank to either: >> >> >> >> >> >> a) Make personal insults, >> >> >> b) Change the subject, or >> >> >> c) Both of the above. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you won't even >> >> >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the idiocy of >> >> >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to yourself as well. >> >> >> >> >> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to what >> >> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you? >> >> > >> >> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >> >> >> >> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? >> > >> >Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >> >description of people like you and Cramer. >> >> You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different >> levels. > >WTG, Johannes, get hysterical. That's what you lot do rather than >support your lies. > >> You're the person trying to force his interpretation of >> history onto others. I don't care whether you believe that the earth >> is flat, but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and >> gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth >> concept. > >Saying you are a denier is not a threat, it is a description based on >your postings. If you don't like that, you know your options. > >> It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The >> situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your >> model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and >> consistency. >> >> Zulu always makes sense, but you very seldom. Calling me and others >> names gleaned from Newspeak will not change the fact that your model >> is bankrupt and simply does not explain that period of history. Models >> that fail to explain events need to be altered or discarded. > >I call you what you have proved yourself to be. It is just your silly opinion, and nothing more. > I don't really care >if that displeases you. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:50 EDT 2009 Article: 2003904 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <8sbss4hm5rivea423gn7rujd19j0lug0ef@4ax.com> References: <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:11:13 -0400 Bytes: 8530 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003904 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:33:08 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:nt9os4h11ie9rf1n7bn2isr7nsk0vs4etv@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:44:10 -0400, in >> , Johannes von Ebersdorf >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee >>> wrote: >>> >>> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >>> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >>> >> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in >>> >> >> > message >>> >> >> > news:49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >> >> >> news:y_KdnbsoWfC7UVjUnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> "Peter Webb" wrote in >>> >> >> >>> message >>> >> >> >>> news:49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >> >> >>>> news:OIudnWYShrGhP1jUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> >> >> >>>>> news:o9gxl.63268$rp7.4628@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com... >>> >> >> >>>>>> On 3/20/2009 7:16 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> "Peter Webb" wrote >>> >> >> >>>>>>> in message >>> >> >> >>>>>>> news:49c377dc$0$32004$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> So, do you: >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (a) Accept the Holocaust happened (which is what we are >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> discussing) but wish to quibble about the exact means >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> used to >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> kill people in death camps >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> or >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> (b) Do not accept the Holocaust happened at all. >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> There was on Holocaust(tm), a la the yid version. >>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>>> You are completely incoherent. >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> "On" = no. >>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Are you arguing that the Holocaust never happened, or that >>> >> >> >>>>>>>> it did >>> >> >> >>>>>>>> happen but didn't involve gassing people? >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> I'll try it one more time. >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> I do NOT believe the yid version. >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> Is that clear enough or is it pictures you need already? >>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>>> Then what do you believe? You bunch are great at saying >>> >> >> >>>>>> what you >>> >> >> >>>>>> don't >>> >> >> >>>>>> accept, but not very good at saying what you do accept. >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> You know damned well what I believe. It's been discussed on >>> >> >> >>>>> countless >>> >> >> >>>>> occasions. >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> You're indulging in your "selective memory" skullduggery >>> >> >> >>>>> again. >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> I don't know what you believe. >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> I wasn't conversing with you, fuckstain. Mind your manners. >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> Do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately and >>> >> >> >>>> systematically killed by the Nazis during WW2 ? >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> I've provided you a response regarding those questions on more >>> >> >> >>> than one >>> >> >> >>> occasion. >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Not to me you haven't. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > You lying cunt. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Like I have observed on several occasions, when cornered, it is the >>> >> >> invariable response of a crank to either: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> a) Make personal insults, >>> >> >> b) Change the subject, or >>> >> >> c) Both of the above. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Now you are so scared of being proved an idiot (again) that you >>> >> >> won't even >>> >> >> say what you believe actually happened, for fear of having the >>> >> >> idiocy of >>> >> >> your underlying beliefs revealed in public and possibly to yourself >>> >> >> as well. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to >>> >> >> what >>> >> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Do you? >>> >> > >>> >> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >>> >> >>> >> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? >>> > >>> >Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >>> >description of people like you and Cramer. >>> >>> You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different >>> levels. >> >> WTG, Johannes, get hysterical. That's what you lot do rather than >> support your lies. > >Where's the hysteria, you silly old bugger? Why do you have to create >scenarios which don't exist? Poor gourd has created some hysteria where there was none. Poor old gourd seems to have a lot of delusions. > >> >>> You're the person trying to force his interpretation of >>> history onto others. I don't care whether you believe that the earth >>> is flat, but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and >>> gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth >>> concept. >> >> Saying you are a denier is not a threat, it is a description based on >> your postings. If you don't like that, you know your options. > >You'd love for he and the rest of us to just go away. It's what you clowns >work for. It's what you clowns have had legislation introduced for. It is all about silencing opponents, through intimidation, imprisonment, and murder if required. > > >> >>> It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The >>> situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your >>> model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and >>> consistency. >>> >>> Zulu always makes sense, but you very seldom. Calling me and others >>> names gleaned from Newspeak will not change the fact that your model >>> is bankrupt and simply does not explain that period of history. Models >>> that fail to explain events need to be altered or discarded. >> >> I call you what you have proved yourself to be. I don't really care >> if that displeases you. > >Nope. You call us what you are obliged to call us. You even lie about our >reasons for questioning your Holocaust(tm) horseshit. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:50 EDT 2009 Article: 2003909 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is not "Beginning to Crumble" Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c5c9f3$0$19982$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5d724$0$7463$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <0rjhs4ds6q98imtpbgaf0aed45oadki461@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:22:26 -0400 Bytes: 6040 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003909 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:42:46 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:ni2js4p88ouov5hrp747qje05qcirankv5@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0400, Gord McFee >> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:21:22 -0400, in >>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:18:14 -0400, Gord McFee >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:09:34 +1100, in >>>> ><49c5e42e$0$2602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Webb" >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>>> >> news:q8ydnUQSDZ6fRljUnZ2dnVY3goqdnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>> >> > >[snip] > >>>> >> >>>> >> I actually wonder whether you even have some alternate theory as to >>>> >> what >>>> >> happened to the Jews of Europe in WW2. >>>> >> >>>> >> Do you? >>>> > >>>> >I have yet to meet a denier who does. >>>> >>>> Can we dispense with meaningless political rhetoric like "denier"? >>> >>>Denier is not meaningless nor is it rhetoric. It is an accurate >>>description of people like you and Cramer. >> >> You're full of shit in so many different ways and on so many different >> levels. > >Persoanl abuse is fallacious and nothing to do with the sujject of denying >the holocaust. > >>You're the person trying to force his interpretation of >> history onto others. > >Actually NO! Anyone can have an opinion. Sure, you can have any opinion you like, but if you voice it, it better not contradict the opinions of the powers that be. That much freedom one had even in Stalin's USSR or Hitler's Germany. > >The accepted and backed up opinion based on evidence and supported by proper >historians is that the WWII holocaust happened Few dispute that large numbers of Jews died. What is in dispute are the methods and the motivations. Accoring to gourd, however, if I have trouble swallowing the "jumping buckets of flesh" or "geysers of blood" tales, then I'm "anti-semitic", a "hater" and a "denier". This newsgroup is full of meaningless buzz words like "denier", "holocaust", and "hater". The impression I get from the likes of gourd and kenny, is that any doubt whatsoever about any of the stories makes one a "denier". Holocaust remains an undefined term. What exactly does one need to believe, or at least pay lip service to, to avoid being attacked as a "denier"? Saying that fewer Palestinian children and other civilians should have been killed in Israel's Gaza assault makes you an "anti-Semite". In that case, perhaps all the world's people should be. Should Israelis be permitted to murder anybody they please, and in whatever numbers suits their fancy? >The unsupported opinion backed up by lies doctored doccuments fallacies and >a plethora of insults and assorted pretentions to doing actual real peer >reviewed history is the holocaust deniers opinion. > >>I don't care whether you believe that the earth >> is flat, > >different topic and what someone believes is as i have stated THEIR OPINION. >It is when people like you come here and say YOUR OPINION that the holocaust >didnt happen is correct that you have to SUPPORT that opinion with EVIDENCE. >The fact of the holocaust is supported with evidence but it YOU who is >claiming no holocaust so it its you who has to support your ludricous >position. >You might begin by defining "WWII holocaust" which you have FAILED to do so >far as far as I know. > > >>but I do care when you try verbal threats, harassment and >> gratuitous meddling to force me to pay lip service to the flat earth >> concept. > >Nobody is arguing "flat earth". Do you mean "WWII Holocaust concept"? >If so then what do you mean by "WWII holocaust"? > >> It isn't a case of denying that the earth is flat. The >> situation is simply that you have failed to convince me that your >> model makes any sense. It simply has too many gaps in logic and >> consistency. > >No body has to convince you of anything. and if you believe in a flat earth >that is also up to you. But iof someone comes here claiming "no spheroid >earth" and claiming it is flat then they have to PRODUCE EVIDENCE! the >Holocaust is the accepted case (and IS supported by evidence) just as the >"oblate spheroid " theory of the Earth's shape is supported by evidence. > >[snip] > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:51 EDT 2009 Article: 2003912 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: PING Ben Cramer: The Red Cross Document Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <49c43c90$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <6mhds4t1n2pm7lu9jg68pt3qfevhvebqrd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:25:34 -0400 Bytes: 6086 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003912 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:50:32 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:oaaos4toilfk4nqe43nmfv2a3eaic59u9s@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:38:20 +1000, in >> , "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> news:hd2is4ldc4kikbksdhb0glkn5hemc48g5p@4ax.com... >>> > On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:39:08 +1000, in >>> > , "B.H. Cramer" >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> "Gord McFee" wrote in message >>> >> news:6mhds4t1n2pm7lu9jg68pt3qfevhvebqrd@4ax.com... >>> >> > On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:29:42 -0400, in >>> >> > , Gord McFee >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> On 3/20/2009 11:01 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > "Peter Webb" wrote in >>> >> >> > message >>> >> >> > news:49c43c90$0$20975$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... >>> >> >> >> "B.H. Cramer" wrote in message >>> >> >> >> news:VZudnegbjcXlrVnUnZ2dnVY3goidnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >> >> >>> "Eugene Holman" wrote in message >>> >> >> >>> news:holman-2003091501520001@ke-hupnet61-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi... >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>>>> In article <_sidnX1ebdB61F7UnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com>, >>> >> >> >>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote: >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> (...) >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>> Here is a gift for my old sparring partner: >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> "The figures in the certificate issued by the Bureau of >>> >> >> >>>> Extraordinary Situations allow no conclusions to be drawn >>> >> >> >>>> concerning the factual number of dead in the concentration >>> >> >> >>>> camps." >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> He will most probably contest the translation, possibly on the >>> >> >> >>>> basis of his belief that German-English dictionaries, German >>> >> >> >>>> teaching, and the German translation industry are all >>> >> >> >>>> controlled by the Jews. >>> >> >> >>> Not at all. I would think that is a pretty common disclaimer >>> >> >> >>> used >>> >> >> >>> on documents of this type. >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> It in no way discounts the numbers as being fraudulent, >>> >> >> >>> yougenie. >>> >> >> >>> What it does, is beg further examination of the yids' numbers, >>> >> >> >>> given their calculations differ by a factor of thousands. >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>>> It's not possible. Anybody familiar with his posting history >>> >> >> >>>> knows that making a fool of himself is a defining attribute of >>> >> >> >>>> Cramerian behavior. >>> >> >> >>> How have I made a fool of myself in presenting these documents? >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> 1. Because they are not source documents, they date from 1979 >>> >> >> >> and >>> >> >> >> 1982. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > They are summations of information contained in the source >>> >> >> > material, >>> >> >> > dickhead. They originate from the Red Cross. The original post >>> >> >> > suggested the Red Cross had made NO such reports. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > You've missed the entire tenor of the thread. Again. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > You, webb, are an unmitigated liar, a fool, uneducated and >>> >> >> > functionally illiterate. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ben, with the thrashing he is givi9ngh you, I suggest you resort to >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> usual brave denier tactic you em,ploy of killfiling him before you >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> completely humiliated. >>> >> > >>> >> > I think perhaps I should have spell checked this post. >>> >> >>> >> You should spell check much of what you post. >>> >> >>> >> Were I of a mind to do so, I could waste considerable time pointing >>> >> out >>> >> your >>> >> SNAFUs. >>> >> >>> >> We'll leave that to the braindead who have 'owt else in their >>> >> repertoire. >>> > >>> > Good call, because if you were to do it, I would have to reciprocate >>> > and your typos and outright errors exceed mine by a magnitude of 100. >>> >>> I hardly think so. But please continue believing in your supremacy and >>> perfection oh omniscient one. >> >> It's not a question of belief, imperfect unknowing one. > >Oh, but it IS a question of belief. Much like your Holocaust(tm) rubbish is >a belief based nonsense. The story is a tower of assumptions piled on top of suppositions. It is a house of cards. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:51 EDT 2009 Article: 2003913 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 272 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:28:22 -0400 Bytes: 15522 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003913 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:22:25 -0500, Topaz wrote: > >Sudeten German Inferno >The hushed-up tragedy of the ethnic Germans in >Czechoslovakia >Ingomar Pust >"Cesarean Section", Czech-Style >ohanna Huber continues: > >"But the most gruesome death of all was reserved for my pregnant >neighbor, Frau Kosnarsch. Her amputee husband (he had lost a leg), >both her parents, and her daughter were brutally beaten to death in >the house. The pregnant woman's stomach had been trampled or cut open; >it was one huge, gruesome, horrible, dreadful wound. The umbilical >cord was wrapped around the dead woman's throat, and the unborn baby's >brains were splattered over the wall. > >"On our estate lived 80-year-old Anna Preis. A partisan smashed her >glasses with a club in such a way that the glass shards cut her eyes. >The blinded woman hanged herself in despair a few days later. >"Suicide was the only way out for many people in those days. Today we >know that there was a huge wave of German suicides throughout all of >Czechoslovakia. We too searched the barn, in vain, for some ergot with >which to poison ourselves. The pharmacist Pfeifer, a half-Jew who had >been horribly abused, advised us to take razor blades and slit our >wrists to escape all the horror, he said that this was the least >painful death. What luck that we couldn't find any razor blades. Fate >spared our lives, even if we did lose everything that the hard work of >generations had wrought." Naturally, people like gourd and kenny would regard this as wonderful. Their concern is exclusively limited to persecuted Jews. > >In May and June the wave of suicides that struck many towns and >villages of the Sudetenland claimed the lives of older people in >particular. By law the Germans no longer had any rights whatsoever. If >they even had a home left at all, they were forced to keep it open to >plunderers at all times. They had to hand in all their valuables, from >jewelry to cameras. > >Germans were forbidden to use public transit. They were forbidden to >leave their homes, except on orders or at specific times. >Letter-writing was also forbidden, as was entering a public inn, a >train station or a post office. They usually received no ration cards >at all, and if they did, these included no stamps for meat, eggs, >milk, cheese or fruit - which meant the death sentence for many >children. > >Insofar as they were not already locked up in the concentration camps, >the Germans were obligated to forced labor without pay. In many >places, the people were ordered to assemble at certain locations, >whence they were transported off as labor slaves to work in >agriculture, mining or industry. The German clergy was also not spared >the orgy of hate. > >Cistercian abbot Eberhard Harzer of Ossegg recounts: >"At every other step on my return to the cell I had to step over a >dead or half-dead person. Back in the barracks I heard the old German >men of Maria-Ratschitz being shot down behind the barracks wall. They >included almost all the old Christian-Socialist party members. The >women were beaten horribly, to the point where they could barely see >through the swelling. All women had been raped, and many had severe >internal injuries and were infected with syphilis. > >"When the 'Svobodici' could rape no more, they resorted to bottle >necks with which they continued torturing the women. When I left this >camp in October, many of these women were still lying badly injured in >the sick-rooms." > >The abbot had been repeatedly arrested, abused and released again. >On November 29, 1945, he writes, "I was arrested again and taken to >the concentration camp in Dux. There were some fellow-prisoners there >who had endured that terrible day in Bilin. Men and women from the >environs of Bilin were herded together in the market square where they >had to strip naked and then had to march single-file past the Czech >population, who beat them with whips and canes. After that, the men in >particular had to crawl in a row on all fours like dogs, and were >beaten until they lost control over their bowels. The ones behind then >had to lick it off the ones in front of them. This torture continued >until many had been beaten to death; the priest of Radowesitz was >among these. What was done to the women there is simply beyond >description - the sadistic monstrosity of it all is too much." > >Father lay in the Pile of Corpses he women suffered terrible things in >those days. Frau Hermine Weissmann of Klagenfurt recounts: >Hermine Weissmann: > >"To this day the memories make me tremble." "My experiences still >weigh on my mind so much that I start to tremble whenever I so much as >speak about them. I was 17 years old at the time - at that age a >person retains things very vividly. I am from Southern Moravia. My >home town, Schaffa, is one kilometer away from the Austrian border. In >our town there were never any Czechs - only servants - and then the >gendarmerie. > >"On May 5, 1945 the Czechs came to get my father. He wasn't even given >enough time to put his shoes on. They beat him half-unconscious and >dragged him to a truck and threw him up like an animal - we were >paralyzed with horror. > >"On May 13 we were taken to a forest clearing near Stallek. Even from >afar we could already smell the stench of decomposing bodies. We were >forced to search through the mountain of corpses for our missing >relatives. I don't know how many dead bodies lay there, swollen and >distended by the heat. All of them lay face-down, and all wore the >identifying armband 'Nemecky'. All of them had been murdered via a >bullet in the neck. We recognized them by their clothes - it was truly >hell. We were 'generously' permitted to take our dead home, at night >and in a box that stood ready. > >"Meanwhile the other men of the town had also been apprehended, and >for two days and nights they were crowded together without food in the >basement of the local school, which was flooded chest-high with water. >Then they were flogged there with whips to whose ends iron nuts had >been tied, and whoever passed out, drowned. > >"Later the survivors were taken into the interior of Czechoslovakia. >Many never returned - and for those who did, it was not until 1946, >and they were broken men. My uncles Lambert Koller and Johann Mang >were among them. When the Czechs went on the rampage among those of us >who remained in the town, we went for help from the Russians, who were >stationed in Riegersburg, Austria, three kilometers away. > >"On June 4, 1945, Czechs with guns at the ready took my family and me >to the Austrian border and expelled us. We were allowed to take 50 >pounds of luggage, and even that was ultimately taken from us at the >border." > >Frau Sylvia Schlosser, Vienna: > >Sylvia Schlosser >"We saw dreadful, inconceivable cruelties in the camp. Often we heard >the screams of the tortured people all day and night long. We >children were also beaten. I lost my father, a physician, to a >horrible fate. > >From my uncle, who was in a camp in Moravian Ostrau together with my >father, I learned that my father, who had had to work in the coal >pits, was killed most brutally. He and other men had to stand in front >of a coal cart that held red-hot coal, and guards poured that over the >German men. The charred corpses were then thrown into a mass grave. >Our family physician from Moravian Ostrau was hanged, his mother, more >than 80 years old, was torn to pieces on a market square by tying her >legs to two horses. Many innocent people shared that same fate. > >"When I remember this horrible time after the war in that country, I >do also recall a Czech woman who risked her own life to take >some food to her former employer in the Czech concentration camp, and >recall the young Czech woman who got me out of the camp for a few >weeks by persuading the Czech camp guard that she needed someone to >help her with her six-month-old baby. I was not quite ten years old at >that time. The woman gave me something to eat, and that was certainly >not the least reason why I survived." > >Frau Therese Stonner-Ther from Bad Groß-Ullersdorf: > >"In June 1945 my sister, Gertrud Guntermann, was found badly wounded >in her home in Moravian Schönberg. One of her neighbors hurried to the >nearest doctor and asked for help. The doctor brusquely refused any >and all aid, and said, 'A German can bloody well die!' And so my >42-year-old sister died without even so much as a minimum of medical >attention and was thrown into a pit outside the cemetery together with >many other murdered Germans. My father wanted to at least buy a >coffin, but that was forbidden. Similarly, the new Czech owners of my >father's drugstore would not even allow my mother to pick some flowers >from the garden that had used to be ours, to take to my poor dead >sister's grave. > >I would like to add that my sister had never been politically active >in any way." > >The Russians as Life-Savers rau Josefine Waimann left a large estate >behind in Czechoslovakia. The scenes of horror that she witnessed in >Masaryk Stadium in Prague are stamped indelibly on her memory. >Josefine Waimann: > >Masaryk Stadium was an inferno. > >"Already in late April we fled from the Russians, to the Americans, in >the direction of Pilsen," reports Frau Waimann, who today lives in >Klagenfurt. "But the Americans handed us over to the Russians by the >thousands, and the Russians then directed our refugee columns towards >Prague. > >"But the Soviets did protect us from the attacks of the Czechs. >Without their escort we would have been beaten to death on the way, >before we even reached Prague. In this respect the Russians made short >work of the Czechs. In Königswiese near Prague I saw a Czech beating a >German lieutenant. When the latter tried to defend himself, the Czech >shot him. > >A Russian saw that, pulled out his pistol and gunned the Czech down >without a word. > >"Still under Russian guard, we were herded through the raging >pandemonium of Prague, in whose streets horribly mutilated bodies of >German privates hung from the street lamp posts everywhere, and on >into Masaryk Stadium. There, we were caught up by the Czech murder >machine. > >"Words fail me to describe what took place in the first few days in >that stadium, where by and by 40,000 Germans were crammed together, >without water, almost entirely without food. Men, women, children and >soldiers. > >My little children cried for hunger. "Before our eyes there began a >sadistic revenge against SS-men and 'incriminated' persons, who were >tortured to death in every way imaginable. I most vividly remember a >young pregnant woman; young Czechs in uniform slit her belly open, >tore out the embryo and, howling with glee, stuffed a dachshund into >the torn body of the woman, who was screaming horribly. We huddled in >the grandstands. The butchering in the arena before our eyes was like >that in ancient Rome. > >"Constantly, groups of privates who had been discovered to be marked >with the SS-rune were liquidated in the most horrible fashion, first >they were flogged, then beaten with clubs, and finally shot. They >were only ever shot after protracted torture. The screams of the >agonized victims who were being skinned alive went right through us. >And thousands of children had to watch all this. How many of them must >have been psychologically traumatized for life! Among the doomed I saw >many very young fellows, they could not yet have been 17 years old. >They must have been just drafted. Now these poor boys were caught by >the merciless torture of this murder machine. The bodies were dumped >in deep trenches. > >Insofar as there was enough space, many were thrown into the latrines >of the enormous stadium, and we had to relieve ourselves over the >bodies - but it was only water and mucus anyhow. > >"Added to the horrors of this camp were the dreadful screams that >carried over to us from the city proper. A rash of suicides began, >with people slitting their wrists. At night the Czechs let hundreds of >drunk Russians into the stadium, probably for bribe money. They raped >the German women right beside their children. It was truly hell, >Masaryk Stadium was. > >"However, after a few days this mass butchery came to be too much even >for the Russians. A Soviet General intervened. He announced via >loudspeakers that there was to be an end to all the raping. If his >soldiers should come at night to get women, all of us should scream so >the guards could hear us, he instructed. And that is what we did. >"At Whitsun 1945 I was separated from my husband and children and my >nieces and nephews, who died in the stadium, and was deported to >forced labor in Semcice. We had to work hard there, but the Czechs in >the rural areas proved to be more humane than their urban brothers. >German children died by the hundreds in a camp nearby. A Russian >soldier from the Crimea plundered food from the farmers at submachine >gunpoint and brought the provisions to us in his backpack until he was >reported for his activities. > >"And again I had a Russian to thank for saving my life, later on in >Bunzlau, when a pack of Czech women beat me up. They might have beaten >me to death if a Russian officer had not saved me. > > In this camp there was a priest from Linz, a true saint, who lifted >us up and also helped us flee. In Schandau in the Eastern Zone we wept >for joy at having escaped from hell. > > The inhabitants told us that the bodies of dead Germans floating down >the Elbe River had been an everyday sight for weeks." Sudeten German >Inferno The hushed-up tragedy of the ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia > > >http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/ > >http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org > >http://heretical.com/ From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:52 EDT 2009 Article: 2003915 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <81dss4dmojfd97v92gf8vkkljjhqh5fc0f@4ax.com> References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:31:30 -0400 Bytes: 3501 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003915 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:22:33 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:52:04 +1000, in >, "B.H. Cramer" > wrote: > >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:catamont-F91CDC.06232726032009@news-40.giganews.com... >> > In article , >> > "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >> > >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> >> news:catamont-3FB433.19494125032009@news-40.giganews.com... >> >> > In article , >> >> > Topaz wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >> >> > The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way >> >> > out. >> >> >> >> He did not murder his own children, sara my dear. His wife poisoned the >> >> children. >> >> >> >> But please don't let facts get in the way of another of your hate rants. >> > >> > It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >> > children murdered, he could have stopped it. That makes him an >> > accomplice. And afterwards, he and his wife offed themselves. >> >> Aha. The jewess now changes gears. You categorically stated HE murdered his >> children. HE did not. His wife did that. > >He was as guilty as she. In fact, perhaps more so, because he was the >one who made her do it. > >But you are trying, in the denier way, to deflect attention from the >fact that your Nazi hero and his wife murdered their own children >because *his* Nazi hero lost the war he started. Such nobility! Who started what is debatable. I see you are sticking to the thoughtless allied propaganda claims. That is part of the reason I reject the rest of your stories. AJP Taylor's book "The Origins of the Second World War" makes some sense, whereas you never have. > >> You lied and you are now attempting to move the goal posts. As you do. > >Look who is talking. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:53 EDT 2009 Article: 2003918 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-02!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:34:19 -0400 Bytes: 2318 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003918 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:23:45 -0400, Gord McFee wrote: >On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:52:52 +0000 (UTC), in >, someone-who-knows > wrote: > >> In article <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com>, >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >> > On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:23:28 -0500, Sara Salzman >> > wrote: >> >> >> It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >> >> children murdered, he could have stopped it. >> >> > They would have been murdered by the allied "liberators" anyway, and >> > in a much more brutal and debased fashion. >> >> So how come nothing happened to Himmler's and Goering's daughters, >> you lying sack? Goering's wife and young daughter were arrested and used by the allies as bargaining chips. Bormann, as far as I know, vanished, so there was not much point to keeping his children, if he had any, as hostages. > >And Hess's children, and Speer's children and Bormann's children and >the list is endless. The denier trash can't help itself. From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:53 EDT 2009 Article: 2003919 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:35:16 -0400 Bytes: 2645 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003919 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:19:13 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Gord McFee" wrote in message >news:djaos410tg2ofge97pcosbri6m95sfe8oa@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:52:52 +0000 (UTC), in >> , someone-who-knows >> wrote: >> >>> In article <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com>, >>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >>> >>> > On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:23:28 -0500, Sara Salzman >>> > wrote: >>> >>> >> It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >>> >> children murdered, he could have stopped it. >>> >>> > They would have been murdered by the allied "liberators" anyway, and >>> > in a much more brutal and debased fashion. >>> >>> So how come nothing happened to Himmler's and Goering's daughters, >>> you lying sack? >> >> And Hess's children, and Speer's children and Bormann's children and >> the list is endless. The denier trash can't help itself. > >As I asked la salzman - Were these Germans captured by the Soviets or the >Yanks/Brits? > >You should always tell the full story yanno, otherwise you might wind up >being told you are lying by omission. Partial stories are their specialty, as are partial quotations that change the meaning of the text. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:54 EDT 2009 Article: 2003921 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <6edss4h2to43m1do7e530erdlt0k77so4g@4ax.com> References: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> <6afda1b7-f499-45bb-97ef-bdd9b34070c1@n7g2000prc.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:37:22 -0400 Bytes: 3164 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003921 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:18:44 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito wrote: >On Mar 26, 5:19 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf >wrote: >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:53:07 -0500, Sara Salzman >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >In article <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg...@4ax.com>, >> > Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:23:28 -0500, Sara Salzman >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >It was a joint decision by the two of them. If he didn't want his >> >> >children murdered, he could have stopped it. >> >> >> They would have been murdered by the allied "liberators" anyway, and >> >> in a much more brutal and debased fashion. >> >> >Really? When did you become a mind reader? Goering's wife wasn't >> >murdered or debased. In fact, NONE of the wives of any of the Nuremberg >> >defendants (which Goebbels would have been) were murdered. >> >> >And NONE of their children were murdered. Goering's daughter went on to >> >live a long life... Gundrun Burwitz Himmler lived a long life... >> >Eichmann's children lived long lives... Florrie Rost van Tonningen lived >> >a long life... Wolf-Rediger Hess, Martin Bormann Jr., Niklas and Norman >> >Frank, and Klaus von Schirach all lived long lives. >> >> >Your assumption about the fate of the Goebbels children is idiotic. >> >> No Sara, you are just putting your head into the sand to avoid the >> obvious. Tens of thousands of children were murdered by the Soviet >> soldiers those first few weeks in Berlin. None of the bunch you listed >> were captured by USSR soldiers. >> > The Soviets were almost as bad as the Germans. Actually, the allies (the Soviets were allies after all) were incomparably worse than the German forces. > > > Michael From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:54 EDT 2009 Article: 2003924 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <2idss4hl0e7lep74tg0f8a267k4jt4s12s@4ax.com> References: <200ns4p008f1gf4pgoba60p0niqffqg0ut@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:38:57 -0400 Bytes: 2118 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003924 On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:28:03 -0500, Topaz wrote: >On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:53:07 -0500, Sara Salzman > wrote: > > >>Really? When did you become a mind reader? Goering's wife wasn't >>murdered or debased. In fact, NONE of the wives of any of the Nuremberg >>defendants (which Goebbels would have been) were murdered. >> > Re-education camps? Actually, Goering's wife and young daughter were arrested and imprisoned for no reason other than that they were relatives of Goering and the allies wanted some bargaining chips for the Nuremberg farce. > >http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/ > >http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org > >http://heretical.com/ From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:54 EDT 2009 Article: 2003927 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <7ovms4lnbi2vhj6cda91kisb2h8kdrjipo@4ax.com> <2LKdnXYZC5vZ4FHUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:42:01 -0400 Bytes: 3049 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003927 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:16:17 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: > >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:7ovms4lnbi2vhj6cda91kisb2h8kdrjipo@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:17:59 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>news:catamont-3FB433.19494125032009@news-40.giganews.com... >>>> In article , >>>> Topaz wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here is a quote from "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels: >>>> The man who murdered his own children before taking the coward's way >>>> out. >>> >>>He did not murder his own children, sara my dear. His wife poisoned the >>>children. >> >> As horrible as that sounds, she probably did the children a favour by >> saving them from a typical allied "liberation". When the Red Army >> types came to the door, they would have immediately shot to death all >> the young males, and the little girls would have been continuously >> raped until they bled to death. Such was the allied way. A little KCN >> sounds like the lesser of two evils. > >It is forbidden to think along those lines, Johannes. Commonsense gets in >the way of a good ole yid whine. I'm sure that there are large numbers of people in today's Iraq whose post-liberation suffering has been so great that they would have considered suicide had they known what was coming. American "liberations" are generally anything BUT liberations and they generally mark the beginning of real suffering by the population affected. > From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:55 EDT 2009 Article: 2003928 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: <5rdss4hvffa070459oi74j7dot6ea8t0bp@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:46:13 -0400 Bytes: 3254 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003928 On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:46:50 +0000 (UTC), NoSpamAtAll wrote: >In article , >Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:36:02 +0000 (UTC), NoSpamAtAll >> wrote: > >>>>> Name one German girl, JUST ONE, who was raped by a Soviet soldier. > >>>> The German state archives claim almost 3 million, including 300,000 >>>> fatalities. > >>> But no physical evidence there, huh? > >> There was physical evidence at the time the archive documentation was >> created. > >Post the records you claim exist and prove their validity. There are countless books on the topic, as well as German government publications. > >I don't understand why rape would have been required. Every GI who >was in Germany after the war will tell you that humping Frauleins was >particularly easy. Their mothers pimped them for coffee, fer >Christ's sake: That too is one reason that I tend to smile every time another American soldier dies in Iraq. American corruption created the starvation environment in which the above became possible. Americans have done the same shameful thing everywhere they went, before or since. > >"It is shameful to observe how mothers sell their daughters >only for a sip of coffee from the Americans. I observe the >latter daily, as they slip into Mrs. Mueller's flat next door. >She launders their uniforms and uses her young daughter Else as >enticement, all to get some coffee. There are coffee parties >there every other day, to which Mrs. Froeling sends her daughter >Waltraud to catch an American for herself. And to think that >a German officer was barely good enough for these people, whose >daughters throw themselves away on American privates, with their >parents' blessing." From the diary of professor Johann Paul Kremer, >June 10 1945. There are millions of American whores who ply the streets of New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles, and for much less provocation, so what is your point? > >("The master race"? Oh me oh my. What would der Fuehrer say?) From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:50:55 EDT 2009 Article: 2003929 of alt.revisionism Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews!core-easynews-01!easynews.com!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Johannes von Ebersdorf Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Nazi guard a free man in Austria Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com Message-ID: References: <72je7aFq631vU1@mid.individual.net> <2ddcd9a0-e69a-4f30-bead-520d488dbc03@b6g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com Organization: Forte Inc. http://www.forteinc.com/apn/ X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:54:13 -0400 Bytes: 6400 Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:2003929 On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 01:03:43 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" wrote: >"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >news:e50ns4998vhkojnoq3as3thsk8q7qlmmdu@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:09:57 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" >> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf" wrote in message >>>news:19dis411adlgucjvigulgv53k36ev1t4uh@4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:23:22 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "B.H. Cramer" wrote: >>>>>> "Patrick Keenan" wrote in message >>>>>> >>>>>> news:KcednZ3XqKnp3ljUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@supernews.com... >>>>>> >>>>>> > "Tim Miller" wrote in message >>>>>> >news:gq3el2$dme$3@news.motzarella.org... >>>>>> >> Topaz wrote: >>>>>> >>> During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in >>>>>> >>> concentration camps. >>>>>> >>>>>> >> Then we kicked the nazi's worthless asses and set their >>>>>> >> prisoners free. >>>>>> >>>>>> > One might also note tha