The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:19 EST 2009
Article: 1988345 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic knolling: Pikelhaube's Hatred Of Germans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:14:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/31/2009 11:34 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:56:15 -0800 (PST), in 
>>> <97c1ae4a-7aa7-4972-9174-97279b162258@u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
>>>  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 30, 9:40 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in
>>>>> messagenews:XoadnRQknevQkR7UnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>  news:64udncwSSNFTCB_UnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "I'll Always Be 30-01-09" 
>>>>>>>>> wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9BA2D08C414ECTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in 
>>>>>>>>>> news:O3tgl.7971$PH1.1351@edtnps82:
>>>>>>>>>>> How reliable is you Bundeswehr I mean the one under
>>>>>>>>>>> American & Jewish control.
>>>>>>>>>> How reliable is Bacque? He is after all, university
>>>>>>>>>> slime
>>>>>>>>> How can this be why do you not talk the German
>>>>>>>>> holocaust survivors. from Ikes camp and be truthfully
>>>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>> You are knolling again, and Bacque has been thoroughly
>>>>>>>> debunked. Even the German military laughs at him. Read
>>>>>>>> some of the books writen about it.
>>>>>>> The survivors of Ikes death camp will not agree with you
>>>>>>> when they have seen all the things you do not want people
>>>>>>> to know. Up until now you have discredited anyone who is in
>>>>>>> your holocaust way and did so intentionally.
>>>>>> Since Eisenhower did not run any death camps, there could be
>>>>>> no survivors. Historians have pointed out Bacque's errors,
>>>>>> and the Bundeswehr has pointed out Bacque's errors. You are
>>>>>> simply too blinded by hatred to accept the truth.
>>>>> I but my trust in survivors of Ikes death camp and not in a
>>>>> lunatic like you.
>>>>> 
>>>> I second that.  I also put my trust in what Bacque and the writer
>>>> of 'After the Reich' have written.  They confirmed what I already
>>>> knew.
>>> Hitler used the same approach to reading.  It was OK as long as it 
>>> confirmed what "he already knew".
>> 
>> This is just hot air from Gourd. How the hell would he know anything 
>> about Hitler's approach to reading, or that of anybody else.
>
>Because unlike you, I have researched it and read the relevant
>literature, including Mein Kampf and the Tischgespräche.

LOL

You treat Mein Kampf as if it were sacred scripture. At the time that
this book was written, Hitler was in jail in Bavaria and could not
possibly even know if he would ever be in a position to fulfill the
various fantasies presented in the book. Most of what you claim he
said, he didn't even say or intend. These are all your half-baked
interpretations of what you wanted the guy to have said.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:19 EST 2009
Article: 1988620 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Already in 1925,  Hitler was obsessed with gassing Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 09:03:18 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:44:56 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> And in WW2 the germans used the gas in the camps...to kill Jews
>
>>>>>>>And others, including Germans, Roma, Poles, Russians, Jehovah's Witnesses, 
>>>>>>>freemasons, and so on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And, including German children.   Getting caught murdering German children 
>>>>>>>was one of the reasons Hitler shifted to verbal orders.
>
>>>>>>You seem to make up this nonsense on the fly.
>
>>>>>Which of the above do you dispute?
>
>>>>My parents lived in Germany during the period in question, and while
>>>>they were not big fans of the NS regime, most of the so-called allied
>>>>postwar "history" is propaganda nonsense. Neither of my parents have
>>>>ever heard of the "murder of German children", other than postwar by
>>>>the "liberators".
>
>>>So, your parents were ignorant of the T4 programme.
>>>
>>>This means it never happened?
>
>>Whatever happened obviously didn't happen the way your propaganda
>>claims it did.
>
>Why "obviously," especially when one considers your demonstrated
>ignorance?
>
>So far, you're 0 for one specifically disputing anything in this
>thread.

Oh get off the pot. Much of your stuff is so patently preposterous
that dispute would be totally superfluous.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:20 EST 2009
Article: 1988621 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic knolling: Pikelhaube's Hatred Of Germans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:33:58 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:s25ao4l5upb95vpn6rvfn79v2dkjlrlphg@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:14:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/31/2009 11:34 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:56:15 -0800 (PST), in
>>>>> <97c1ae4a-7aa7-4972-9174-97279b162258@u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 30, 9:40 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>>>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in
>>>>>>> messagenews:XoadnRQknevQkR7UnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>  news:64udncwSSNFTCB_UnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "I'll Always Be 30-01-09" 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9BA2D08C414ECTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:O3tgl.7971$PH1.1351@edtnps82:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How reliable is you Bundeswehr I mean the one under
>>>>>>>>>>>>> American & Jewish control.
>>>>>>>>>>>> How reliable is Bacque? He is after all, university
>>>>>>>>>>>> slime
>>>>>>>>>>> How can this be why do you not talk the German
>>>>>>>>>>> holocaust survivors. from Ikes camp and be truthfully
>>>>>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>>>> You are knolling again, and Bacque has been thoroughly
>>>>>>>>>> debunked. Even the German military laughs at him. Read
>>>>>>>>>> some of the books writen about it.
>>>>>>>>> The survivors of Ikes death camp will not agree with you
>>>>>>>>> when they have seen all the things you do not want people
>>>>>>>>> to know. Up until now you have discredited anyone who is in
>>>>>>>>> your holocaust way and did so intentionally.
>>>>>>>> Since Eisenhower did not run any death camps, there could be
>>>>>>>> no survivors. Historians have pointed out Bacque's errors,
>>>>>>>> and the Bundeswehr has pointed out Bacque's errors. You are
>>>>>>>> simply too blinded by hatred to accept the truth.
>>>>>>> I but my trust in survivors of Ikes death camp and not in a
>>>>>>> lunatic like you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I second that.  I also put my trust in what Bacque and the writer
>>>>>> of 'After the Reich' have written.  They confirmed what I already
>>>>>> knew.
>>>>> Hitler used the same approach to reading.  It was OK as long as it
>>>>> confirmed what "he already knew".
>>>>
>>>> This is just hot air from Gourd. How the hell would he know anything
>>>> about Hitler's approach to reading, or that of anybody else.
>>>
>>>Because unlike you, I have researched it and read the relevant
>>>literature, including Mein Kampf and the Tischgespräche.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> You treat Mein Kampf as if it were sacred scripture. At the time that
>> this book was written, Hitler was in jail in Bavaria and could not
>> possibly even know if he would ever be in a position to fulfill the
>> various fantasies presented in the book. Most of what you claim he
>> said, he didn't even say or intend. These are all your half-baked
>> interpretations of what you wanted the guy to have said.
>
>Ole gourd is an expert on German language, yanno. He's even got Holmanstein 
>bluffed with his mastery of the language. He's even got Germans bluffed with 
>his mastery of their very own language.
>
>Such a mensch, him.

Old gourd is a marvel indeed.  LOL

>
>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:20 EST 2009
Article: 1988622 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ethnic knolling: Pikelhaube's Hatred Of Germans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:13:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:20:27 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>[troll dismissed]

It seems that you fit your own running away line.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:20 EST 2009
Article: 1990795 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>> Press TV (Iran)
>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>
>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research on
>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>
>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched every 
>day in Western countries.  

Nobody does "research" on this topic, because they approach the topic
with a closed mind set on the official version. If your "research"
findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
career and possibly your freedom.

The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
about the findings before the research even starts.







> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been 
>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has been 
>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>
>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, one that 
>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the topic. 
>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>
>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide fuel to 
>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has 
>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24% and 
>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its 
>infrastructure/.
>
>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government that 
>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to 
>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling for 
>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison sentences.
>
>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does not 
>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external enemies, 
>because it is incompetent.
>
>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and 
>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called "good" 
>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and "revisionist" 
>crowd.
>
>HTH
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:21 EST 2009
Article: 1990796 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Canadians(and others)are dying in Afghanistan
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:17:17 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>{
>In Dec. 97, Unocal invited a senior Taliban delegation to Houston,
>Texas, to discuss a major oil deal.  Unocal, with Washington's
>blessing and support, wanted to build the oil pipeline across
>Afghanistan linking the Caspian Basin oil fields of Central Asia with
>Pakistan's coast.  This new trans-Afghanistan pipeline would form the
>principal export conduit for the newly discovered energy resources of
>Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and Turkmenistan and put even more of the
>world's energy supplies under US control.
>But Osama bin Laden reportedly advised the Taliban's Mullah Omar to
>reject the Unocal contract in favor of a better deal from an Argentine
>consortium, Bridas.  This infuriated the Clinton administration, which
>had been previously advised by Khalilzad to improve relations with the
>Taliban.  As a result, the Taliban was put on Washington's blacklist.
>}
>American Raj, page 195 by Eric S. Margolis

There seems to be no American project anywhere in the world that
doesn't have some sort of corrupt background agenda in addition to the
official published agenda.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:21 EST 2009
Article: 1990797 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel to Pope - You've only begun to apologize
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:47:30 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>So the Pope gave in and told the Bishop he would have to believe in the 
>magic of the Holocaust or he would have no career.

Heinrich, I suppose the man can believe what he wishes, but he is
obliged to pay lip service to the holocaust™. How does the old German
saying go? "Die Gedanken sind frei" It seems, however, that expression
of these thoughts is anything but free.

>
>BUT
>
>Israel's foreign ministry welcomed the Vatican's remarks last night, saying: 
>"Admonishing the manifestation of Holocaust denial is the first step in the 
>right direction". But it said Israel expected "more explicit and unequivocal 
>decisions and statements on this issue".
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...olocaust-views 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:21 EST 2009
Article: 1990798 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:00:58 +0000, Daniel Bernard
 wrote:

>On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:08:11 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>wrote:
>
>>Georg Ratzinger has defended his brother Pope Benedict XVI over his decision 
>>to rehabilitate Bishop Williamson, a Holocaust denier, into the Catholic 
>>Church - and slammed Angela Merkel for her criticism.
>>
>>Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and has 
>>now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He has often publicly denied the 
>>Holocaust, as well as airing other outrageous conspiracy theories.
>>"He doesn't need me to defend him. But it angers me how unjust and badly 
>>informed the people who are attacking him are," the Regensburg Music 
>>Director, 'Domkapellmeister', Georg Ratzinger told German newspaper 
>>'Leipziger Volkszeitung'. He finds the harsh criticism the Pope has received 
>>from people in his native Germany, as well as from the rest of the world, 
>>unjust: "We always speak about an informed society, when in reality it is 
>>uninformed."
>>
>>Georg Ratzinger (85) finds German Chancellor Angela Merkel's
>
>Merkel can ESAD.
>
>The Catholic Church does not need a fucking Lutheran telling it how to
>run its affairs.

LOL

Is Angela actually Lutheran? I was always told that she was RC.

>
>> open criticism 
>>of the Pope particularly disappointing: "I always saw her as a rational 
>>woman. But perhaps at the moment she is under pressure to say something 
>>irrational." Ratzinger says he speaks with his brother in the Vatican on the 
>>phone, but doesn't discuss the scandal: "We usually talk about personal 
>>things."
>>
>>German bishop Gregor Maria Hanke has also slammed Merkel's opinion, saying 
>>he finds it disconcerting "how the Pope's integrity is now being questioned 
>>by politicians and statesmen."
>>
>
>
>>Even members of the German Parliament are criticising Merkel for involving 
>>herself in the debate surrounding the rehabilitation: CSU politician Bernd 
>>Posselt warned the Chancellor about continuing to "act as the Pope's 
>>teacher."
>>
>>Angela Merkel has, however, received support from members of her own party, 
>>the Central Council of Jews 
>
>The Jew Council can fuck off. 
>
>The Catholic Church does not need a bunch of fucking Jews telling it
>how to run its affairs.
>
>>and SPD head Franz Muntefering, who said: "I 
>>think it is unacceptable to rehabilitate a bishop who denies the Holocaust."
>>
>Muntefering can either fuck off and join another religion or toe the
>Catholic line.
>
>Bishop WIlliamson was not excommunicated because of his views on the
>so-called Holocaust. Therefore his views on the so-called Holocaust
>should not affect his rehabilitation into the Catholic Church.
>
>>After days of silence the Pope and the Vatican issued a statement "firmly 
>>rejecting" the views of Williamson and ordering him to publicly recant them 
>>in order to stay in the Church
>
>Bishop Williamson also questioned the official line regarding the WTC
>attacks. 
>
>Should he recant those views simply to placate Americans?
>
>Boche like Merkel and Munterfering should stop trying to foist their
>German Holocaust guilt on the rest of the world.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:22 EST 2009
Article: 1990799 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:51:22 -0500, Eli Grubman
 wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:43:55 +0000, Daniel Bernard
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:20:55 -0500, Eli Grubman
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Ah have a dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeam".
>>>- Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
>>>
>>>Eli
>>
>>"Jews are full of the devil's faeces ... which they wallow in like
>>swine."
>>
>>Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
>
>The man obviously had talent.  Too bad he got assassinated.

Martin Luther was never assassinated. Such things are very rare in
Germany. It was the American, Martin Luther KING, who was
assassinated, a rather common occurrence in the USA.

>
>Eli


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:22 EST 2009
Article: 1990800 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:57:06 +0100, Poor Eli Grabmen is a Real
Psychopath! LOL  wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:00:58 +0000, Daniel Bernard wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:08:11 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Georg Ratzinger has defended his brother Pope Benedict XVI over his decision 
>>>to rehabilitate Bishop Williamson, a Holocaust denier, into the Catholic 
>>>Church - and slammed Angela Merkel for her criticism.
>>>
>>>Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and has 
>>>now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He has often publicly denied the 
>>>Holocaust, as well as airing other outrageous conspiracy theories.
>>>"He doesn't need me to defend him. But it angers me how unjust and badly 
>>>informed the people who are attacking him are," the Regensburg Music 
>>>Director, 'Domkapellmeister', Georg Ratzinger told German newspaper 
>>>'Leipziger Volkszeitung'. He finds the harsh criticism the Pope has received 
>>>from people in his native Germany, as well as from the rest of the world, 
>>>unjust: "We always speak about an informed society, when in reality it is 
>>>uninformed."
>>>
>>>Georg Ratzinger (85) finds German Chancellor Angela Merkel's
>> 
>> Merkel can ESAD.
>> 
>> The Catholic Church does not need a fucking Lutheran telling it how to
>> run its affairs.
>
>
>That woman got courage

That is a bit of an overstatement. Angela is very much a political
animal who checks the direction of the wind frequently. She is no
friend of Germany or its people.






> and that's how she became German chancellor. A lot of
>Catholics agree with her criticism and are much more harsh than she is on
>that strange, bookish Pope who continues living in a theological cloud
>cuckoo land.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:23 EST 2009
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:47:03 -0800 (PST), StarDust 
wrote:

>On Feb 5, 5:57 am, Poor Eli Grabmen is a Real Psychopath! LOL
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:00:58 +0000, Daniel Bernard wrote:
>> > On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:08:11 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>Georg Ratzinger has defended his brother Pope Benedict XVI over his decision
>> >>to rehabilitate Bishop Williamson, a Holocaust denier, into the Catholic
>> >>Church - and slammed Angela Merkel for her criticism.
>>
>> >>Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and has
>> >>now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He has often publicly denied the
>> >>Holocaust, as well as airing other outrageous conspiracy theories.
>> >>"He doesn't need me to defend him. But it angers me how unjust and badly
>> >>informed the people who are attacking him are," the Regensburg Music
>> >>Director, 'Domkapellmeister', Georg Ratzinger told German newspaper
>> >>'Leipziger Volkszeitung'. He finds the harsh criticism the Pope has received
>> >>from people in his native Germany, as well as from the rest of the world,
>> >>unjust: "We always speak about an informed society, when in reality it is
>> >>uninformed."
>>
>> >>Georg Ratzinger (85) finds German Chancellor Angela Merkel's
>>
>> > Merkel can ESAD.
>>
>> > The Catholic Church does not need a fucking Lutheran telling it how to
>> > run its affairs.
>>
>> That woman got courage and that's how she became German chancellor. A lot of
>> Catholics agree with her criticism and are much more harsh than she is on
>> that strange, bookish Pope who continues living in a theological cloud
>> cuckoo land.
>
>She's an ex-communist!

She lived in the DDR to be sure, but she was always a Christian
Democrat, since that party was tolerated by the SED.

>Do you like communists?
>JS


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:23 EST 2009
Article: 1990802 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:45:11 -0500, Eli Grubman
 wrote:

>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:10:20 +0000, Daniel Bernard
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:40:05 -0500, Eli Grubman
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:09:49 +0000 (UTC), TallHenry 
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <6v0dmbFhl9b5U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>Heinrich  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "TallHenry"  schreef in bericht 
>>>>> news:gmev5j$8s0$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>>>
>>>>>> In article <6uvvktFhfp7hU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Georg Ratzinger
>>>>
>>>>>>     Was he also in the Hitler Youth,  like his brother?
>>>>
>>>>> every young german was forced to go with the hitker jugend, 
>>>>
>>>>         They're all a bunch of fucking Nazi pigs.  We should
>>>>have nuked Berlin.  Well,  next time...
>>>
>>>What would you have nuked Berlin with, jew asshole?  Your fucking
>>>torah rolls?
>>>
>>Jew hair?
>
>Stale bagels?
>
>>Anyway, if they had nukes Berlin they would have ended up killing more
>>Jews than ever died in the camps.
>
>Pretty much the same holds today.  It's a magnet for Izzies,
>apparently.

They seem to follow the money. One doesn't see them that much in poor
countries.

>
>Eli


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:23 EST 2009
Article: 1990803 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:03:27 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 5, 10:07 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> "TallHenry"  schreef in berichtnews:gmev5j$8s0$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>> > In article <6uvvktFhfp7...@mid.individual.net>,
>> > Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>> >> Georg Ratzinger
>>
>> >     Was he also in the Hitler Youth,  like his brother?
>>
>> every young german was forced to go with the hitker jugend, dombo.
>>
>> merkel is to blame because she is a puppet in the hands of those german jews
>
>That she is.  She doesn't act the way she does because of her
>Lutheranism.

She is a politician, in the pejorative use of that term.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:24 EST 2009
Article: 1990804 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:05:08 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 5, 10:09 am, TallHenry  wrote:
>> In article <6v0dmbFhl9b...@mid.individual.net>,
>>
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>> > "TallHenry"  schreef in bericht
>> >news:gmev5j$8s0$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> >> In article <6uvvktFhfp7...@mid.individual.net>,
>> >> Heinrich  wrote:
>> >>> Georg Ratzinger
>> >>     Was he also in the Hitler Youth,  like his brother?
>> > every young german was forced to go with the hitker jugend,
>>
>>          They're all a bunch of fucking Nazi pigs.  We should
>> have nuked Berlin.  Well,  next time...
>
>Berlin was devastated enough.  How could you have made it worse by
>nuking it, and what problems would nuking it have solved?

These people are totally ignorant of science. Hiroshima and Nagazaki
were spectacular because they were virgin targets and they were
dropped on cities constructed mainly out of wood. Modern, heavy
structures in both cities survived almost to the point directly under
the bomb.

Berlin would have been totally unspectacular, since there would have
been almost no combustibles left in the downtown and the buildings all
come under the heading of modern, very heavy construction. Some of the
mountains of rubble might have been shifted, but that would have been
all.






>You sound like some kook who is still at war with Germany.  Oh well,
>we get all kinds on this NG.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:25 EST 2009
Article: 1990805 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:02:19 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 5, 10:04 am, TallHenry  wrote:
>> In article <6uvvktFhfp7...@mid.individual.net>,
>>
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>> > Georg Ratzinger
>>
>>      Was he also in the Hitler Youth,  like his brother?
>
>What exactly was wrong about being in the Hitler Youth?

Nothing. People were obliged to be members.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:26 EST 2009
Article: 1990806 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:53:33 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>Merkel is a crypto Jew.

No, she is just an overly flexible politician with no scruples.

>
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6uvvktFhfp7hU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Georg Ratzinger has defended his brother Pope Benedict XVI over his 
>> decision to rehabilitate Bishop Williamson, a Holocaust denier, into the 
>> Catholic Church - and slammed Angela Merkel for her criticism.
>>
>> Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and 
>> has now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He has often publicly denied 
>> the Holocaust, as well as airing other outrageous conspiracy theories.
>> "He doesn't need me to defend him. But it angers me how unjust and badly 
>> informed the people who are attacking him are," the Regensburg Music 
>> Director, 'Domkapellmeister', Georg Ratzinger told German newspaper 
>> 'Leipziger Volkszeitung'. He finds the harsh criticism the Pope has 
>> received from people in his native Germany, as well as from the rest of 
>> the world, unjust: "We always speak about an informed society, when in 
>> reality it is uninformed."
>>
>> Georg Ratzinger (85) finds German Chancellor Angela Merkel's open 
>> criticism of the Pope particularly disappointing: "I always saw her as a 
>> rational woman. But perhaps at the moment she is under pressure to say 
>> something irrational." Ratzinger says he speaks with his brother in the 
>> Vatican on the phone, but doesn't discuss the scandal: "We usually talk 
>> about personal things."
>>
>> German bishop Gregor Maria Hanke has also slammed Merkel's opinion, saying 
>> he finds it disconcerting "how the Pope's integrity is now being 
>> questioned by politicians and statesmen."
>>
>> Even members of the German Parliament are criticising Merkel for involving 
>> herself in the debate surrounding the rehabilitation: CSU politician Bernd 
>> Posselt warned the Chancellor about continuing to "act as the Pope's 
>> teacher."
>>
>> Angela Merkel has, however, received support from members of her own 
>> party, the Central Council of Jews and SPD head Franz Muntefering, who 
>> said: "I think it is unacceptable to rehabilitate a bishop who denies the 
>> Holocaust."
>>
>> After days of silence the Pope and the Vatican issued a statement "firmly 
>> rejecting" the views of Williamson and ordering him to publicly recant 
>> them in order to stay in the Church
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:26 EST 2009
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On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:40:13 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote
>         in message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>: 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:11vmo456lbfgcj7imubpujdhgeo4llrmr0@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>(Well, I
>>>>>>suppose a new addition is about due, since the story does change from 
>>>>>>time
>>>>>>to time.)
>
>>>>> As does all history, when new information becomes available.
>>>>>
>>>>> But wait -- you claim that the Holocaust "story" can never change
>>>>> because it is illegal.
>
>>>>Bullshit. That makes no sense and obviously I never said any such thing. 
>>>>On
>>>>the contrary, I have said repeatedly that the Holocaust story is in a 
>>>>state
>>>>of more or less continuous change as older parts are shown to be 
>>>>ridiculous
>>>>and the story is adjusted to suit. (For example, the story no longer has
>>>>Zyklon B gas coming out of shower heads. That part of the fairy tale has
>>>>been abandoned. So has the soap made from "pure Jewish fat.")
>
>>> The normative understanding
>
>>Ah, "normative" again! What a wonderfully defensive word you seem to believe 
>>that to be. Any Holocaust story later proven to be nonsense can be excused 
>>on the grounds it wasn't "normative," which evidently is a term to be 
>>retroactively applied as necessary for defense of the overall fable.
>
>So, you don't understand what "normative" means.  Might I suggest you
>educate yourself?
>
>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower
>>> heads.  Nor did it have "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>
>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>Your proof of this is ... ?

Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
you already were.

>
>>No one raised the question of whether it was 
>>"normative" history at the time. It was just part of the bullshit that was 
>>expected to be accepted by all, and of course anyone who questioned it would 
>>be condemned as a "Holocaust denier" -- at the very least.
>
>>> Any more than the
>>> normative understanding of the American Revolution depend on George
>>> Washington throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac.
>
>>But Washington's trans-Potomac silver dollar pitch was nowhere near as 
>>important to that part of American history as the poison-gas-spewing shower 
>>heads were to the Holocaust mythology.
>
>On what objective scale do you assert this?
>
>>> Which reminds me:  got any proof that at the time they were called
>>> "silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars?"
>
>>Sure. From Wikipedia:
>>
>>"Before the Revolutionary War, coins from many European nations circulated 
>>freely in the American colonies, as well as decimal coinage issued by the 
>>various colonies. Chief among these was the Spanish silver "dollar" coins 
>>(also called pieces of eight or eight reales) minted in Mexico and other 
>>colonies with silver mined from Central and South American mines. These 
>>coins, along with others of similar size and value, were in use throughout 
>>the colonies and later the United States and were legal tender until 1857."
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_(United_States_coin) 
>
>Nothing there even pretends to show that at the time they were called
>"silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars."
>
>Care to try again?
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:26 EST 2009
Article: 1990810 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:09:54 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>
>>>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower
>>>>> heads.  Nor did it have "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>
>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if
>>>>not most Holocaust museums.
>
>>> Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I suppose 
>>they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but you could always 
>>Google this if you're really interested.
>
>I'm interested in your inability to support your lies.

Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
berating others for alleged untruths.

>
>>Remember, the Jews buried lots of this "pure Jewish fat" soap with full 
>>funeral ceremonies in the new state of Israel in 1948. IIRC, they buried 
>>four bars in one place and a couple of cases of the stuff in another. I 
>>remember there were two separate burial ceremonies.
>
>Then you should have no problem documenting such funeral ceremonies.
>
>>So they took it *very* seriously. Lots of "oy veys," weeping and wailing, 
>>praying and what have you, as they buried the Ivory thinking it was maybe 
>>Uncle Irving.
>
>Even if this was true -- what difference would it have to the
>normative understanding of the history you try to deny?
>
>>>>No one raised the question of whether it was
>>>>"normative" history at the time. It was just part of the bullshit that was
>>>>expected to be accepted by all, and of course anyone who questioned it 
>>>>would be condemned as a "Holocaust denier" -- at the very least.
>
>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>>> Any more than the
>>>>> normative understanding of the American Revolution depend on George
>>>>> Washington throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac.
>
>>>>But Washington's trans-Potomac silver dollar pitch was nowhere near as
>>>>important to that part of American history as the poison-gas-spewing 
>>>>shower heads were to the Holocaust mythology.
>
>>> On what objective scale do you assert this?
>
>>It's obvious.
>
>No, it's not.  
>
>On what objective scale do you assert Washington's silver dollar toss
>was nowhere near as important to that part of American history as the
>poison-gas-spewing shower heads were to the Holocaust?
>
>>>>> Which reminds me:  got any proof that at the time they were called
>>>>> "silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars?"
>
>>>>Sure. From Wikipedia:
>>>>
>>>>"Before the Revolutionary War, coins from many European nations circulated
>>>>freely in the American colonies, as well as decimal coinage issued by the
>>>>various colonies. Chief among these was the Spanish silver "dollar" coins
>>>>(also called pieces of eight or eight reales) minted in Mexico and other
>>>>colonies with silver mined from Central and South American mines. These
>>>>coins, along with others of similar size and value, were in use throughout
>>>>the colonies and later the United States and were legal tender until 
>>>>1857."
>>>>
>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_(United_States_coin)
>
>>> Nothing there even pretends to show that at the time they were called
>>> "silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars."
>
>>Obviously Americans called their silver dollars "silver dollars" or 
>>"dollars," as it says in the article, not "Spanish dollars."
>
>Nothing in that article says they were called silver dollars.
>
>>Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you really having trouble with 
>>this? 
>
>I'm only pointing out that you have no factual basis for your claims
>about Spanish dollars, anymore than you have about your claims about
>the Holocaust.
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:27 EST 2009
Article: 1990812 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:54:40 +0000 (UTC), Alan-from-Elimbah
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Neil Harrington  wrote:
>
>> That gets you the free downgrade to full plonkee status you've been striving 
>> for.
>
>The rule has been established,  folks.  To get plonked by
>Neil,  you have to prove at least three times that he's a
>liar and a moron.  IOW,  you have to reply to at least three
>of his posts.
>
Lots of people have put the jerk who goes by "I'm here..." on a purge
list. The guy simply has nothing worthwhile to say or contribute to a
discussion, except of course name-calling and invective.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:27 EST 2009
Article: 1990894 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:09:45 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:gnjro45apono9hh9747dfa17hub90hqac3@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>>>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>>>> Press TV (Iran)
>>>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>>>
>>>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>>>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>>>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research on
>>>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>>>
>>>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched 
>>>every
>>>day in Western countries.
>>
>> Nobody does "research" on this topic,
>
>Yes, they do.    There's plenty of real research and real debate that goes 
>on all the time.
>
>Your denial of this doesn't affect reality.
>
>> because they approach the topic
>> with a closed mind set on the official version.
>
>Actually they start their approach from a study of the available data.
>
>If you have a problem with the data, or with the methods, why aren't you 
>publishing your rebuttals?
>
>Accepting the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" version generally requires 
>the *exclusion* of data, which is generally why it isn't used.   Getting 
>caught excluding data is a fast track to loss of credibility, which is why 
>"revisionists" have so little.
>
>> If your "research"
>> findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
>> career and possibly your freedom.
>
>Sorry, but this is just false, as the functionalist vs intentionalist 
>debate, which ran for some time in countries where Holocaust denial faces 
>legal sanctioned, shows.
>
>Despite all the arguing, lectures and publications, nobody was arrested, 
>nobody's carrer was damaged and nobody went to jail.
>
>So we can readily see that what you pretend to base your "argument" on is 
>not factual.    And it's not like this is even hard to find out.
>
>There are only a handful of countries where Holocaust denial is illegal, and 
>all of them made it illegal because what is underneath it is the promotion 
>of racial ideologies that destroyed large portions of Europe and killed 
>millions.    These countries have direct and bitter experience with that and 
>want nothing to do with the promotion of these ideologies.
>
>> The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
>> Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
>> about the findings before the research even starts.
>
>If you think that this is the case, please show us references to your 
>challenges to the methods of these researchers in the peer-reviewed 
>journals.   What letters or articles have you written showing that their 
>data or methods are flawed or incorrect?
>
>Your "argument" referencing Dr. Cameron is undermined by the fact that very 
>few scientists or courts pay attention to him or respect his studies, 
>methods, or data, largely because there have been numerous challenges to 
>them, and his work hasn't withstood the challenges.
>
>In contrast, genuine historical researchers have their work checked by 
>others and it does withstand challenges.
>
>If you want to make a valid comparison, you're going to have to do a *lot* 
>better than this.  Perhaps you could start by trying to understand what a 
>comparison *is*.
>
>There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have contributed 
>anything significant or meaningful to our understanding of the history.

Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaust™.
The only thing unique about the holocaust™ is that revisionism is
either prohibited or violently opposed. Obviously the story does not
stand up to criticism. The Roman Church in the middle ages didn't like
revisionists such as Galileo who challenged their geocentric notions
of the universe.

 
>Much of their material can be easily shown to be of very poor quality, and 
>they aren't published in the mainstream journals because they are just not 
>good enough.  Their work does not stand up to scrutiny.
>
>Meanwhile, the Iranian government set up and promoted a "conference" that 
>was *exactly* what you pretend to abhor.   They deliberately held it in a 
>place where only a select few of a specific viewpoint could attend; those 
>who know most about the topic were prohibited, by law, from attending.
>
>This shows the inherent weakness of the Holocaust denier and "revisionist" 
>position.  It just can not stand up to real scrutiny, and requires the 
>active support of a government that suppresses other viewpoints with force 
>of law, and I do mean force in the active sense.
>
>And yet, you are silent on this point.
>
>Not a word from you on the restrictive attendance policy or what it means 
>about the validity of the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" "argument".
>
>And before you go off claiming that this is comparable to the situation with 
>the accepted view of the history,  it isn't.
>
>Remember that only a few countries outlaw Holocaust denial, and the accepted 
>view is not seriously challenged in countries where it is perfectly legal. 
>The accepted history is the same whether Holocaust denial is legal or not.
>
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been
>>>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has 
>>>been
>>>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>>>
>>>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, one 
>>>that
>>>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the 
>>>topic.
>>>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>>>
>>>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide fuel 
>>>to
>>>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has
>>>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24% and
>>>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its
>>>infrastructure/.
>>>
>>>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government that
>>>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to
>>>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling for
>>>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison sentences.
>>>
>>>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does not
>>>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external enemies,
>>>because it is incompetent.
>>>
>>>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and
>>>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called "good"
>>>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and 
>>>"revisionist"
>>>crowd.
>>>
>>>HTH
>>>-pk
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:27 EST 2009
Article: 1990927 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
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On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:03:19 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:o94so4d9msn6c01v2k5bubet1tlv8fn1kg@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:09:45 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:gnjro45apono9hh9747dfa17hub90hqac3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>>>>>> Press TV (Iran)
>>>>>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>>>>>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>>>>>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research on
>>>>>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>>>>>
>>>>>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched
>>>>>every
>>>>>day in Western countries.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody does "research" on this topic,
>>>
>>>Yes, they do.    There's plenty of real research and real debate that goes
>>>on all the time.
>>>
>>>Your denial of this doesn't affect reality.
>>>
>>>> because they approach the topic
>>>> with a closed mind set on the official version.
>>>
>>>Actually they start their approach from a study of the available data.
>>>
>>>If you have a problem with the data, or with the methods, why aren't you
>>>publishing your rebuttals?
>>>
>>>Accepting the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" version generally requires
>>>the *exclusion* of data, which is generally why it isn't used.   Getting
>>>caught excluding data is a fast track to loss of credibility, which is why
>>>"revisionists" have so little.
>>>
>>>> If your "research"
>>>> findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
>>>> career and possibly your freedom.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but this is just false, as the functionalist vs intentionalist
>>>debate, which ran for some time in countries where Holocaust denial faces
>>>legal sanctioned, shows.
>>>
>>>Despite all the arguing, lectures and publications, nobody was arrested,
>>>nobody's carrer was damaged and nobody went to jail.
>>>
>>>So we can readily see that what you pretend to base your "argument" on is
>>>not factual.    And it's not like this is even hard to find out.
>>>
>>>There are only a handful of countries where Holocaust denial is illegal, 
>>>and
>>>all of them made it illegal because what is underneath it is the promotion
>>>of racial ideologies that destroyed large portions of Europe and killed
>>>millions.    These countries have direct and bitter experience with that 
>>>and
>>>want nothing to do with the promotion of these ideologies.
>>>
>>>> The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
>>>> Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
>>>> about the findings before the research even starts.
>>>
>>>If you think that this is the case, please show us references to your
>>>challenges to the methods of these researchers in the peer-reviewed
>>>journals.   What letters or articles have you written showing that their
>>>data or methods are flawed or incorrect?
>>>
>>>Your "argument" referencing Dr. Cameron is undermined by the fact that 
>>>very
>>>few scientists or courts pay attention to him or respect his studies,
>>>methods, or data, largely because there have been numerous challenges to
>>>them, and his work hasn't withstood the challenges.
>>>
>>>In contrast, genuine historical researchers have their work checked by
>>>others and it does withstand challenges.
>>>
>>>If you want to make a valid comparison, you're going to have to do a *lot*
>>>better than this.  Perhaps you could start by trying to understand what a
>>>comparison *is*.
>>>
>>>There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have contributed
>>>anything significant or meaningful to our understanding of the history.
>>
>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>
>This is a false statement.
>
>All history is reviewed, including the history of the Holocaust, and all 
>study and contributions revise our understanding.
>
>Holocaust denial and "revisionism"

I refuse to play your game and buy into your "newspeak". You are just
like the American fundies with their loaded words of "lifestyle" and
"choice".

Your stock phrase of "holocaust denial" is a tool for deception and
intimidation. Personally, I don't "deny" anything. I don't "deny" the
tooth-fairy, for example, I just don't believe in it.

I find your "evidence" half-baked and hence I don't believe all your
stories. I would agree that large numbers of Jews died during WW2 and
that the NS authorities persecuted them, but I generally don't use
your newspeak word "holocaust" because it is a loaded term. Much of
the holocaust has been shown to have no basis, so it isn't exactly a
topic about which I feel any guilt or concern.







> is something entirely different, and is 
>not derived from a motivation to understand the real history.
>
>> The only thing unique about the holocaustT is that revisionism is
>> either prohibited or violently opposed.
>
>You haven't understood what I wrote at all, did you?
>
>The fact of the intentionalist vs. functionalist debate shows that your 
>"argument" in this case is not based on anything factual.
>
>Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" are not engaged in real historical 
>efforts, and are treated according to their real political motivation.
>
>> Obviously the story does not stand up to criticism.
>
>If by this you mean the story presented by Holocaust deniers and 
>"revisionists", no, it doesn't.
>
>And that's strictly because there is no information from them that can 
>significantly change our understanding of the history.
>
>What Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" present is substandard at best, 
>and sometimes is outright fabrication.   It fails when challenged.
>
>Accepted history *does* stand up to criticism, or it wouldn't be accepted.
>
>> The Roman Church in the middle ages didn't like
>> revisionists such as Galileo who challenged their geocentric notions
>> of the universe.
>
>Perhaps you haven't noticed that for some timenow, even centuries, in the 
>Western world, religious groups no longer dictate to the scientific or 
>research communities.
>
>Only in theocratic states is this still the case, and not co-incidentally, 
>that is where the primary market for Holocaust denial and "revisionist" 
>material exists.   In those jurisdictions, this is a tool of foreign policy, 
>a tool used to focus hatred to Jews and Israel - and to distract the 
>population from their own governments and leaders.
>
>It's telling that you raise this "argument" about the Roman church and don't 
>even understand that the only governments that support Holocaust denial and 
>"revisionism" are theocratic; in all other jurisdictions, free discussion 
>and criticism determines what is accepted.    Your "argument" thus 
>discredits itself.
>
>If Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" were actually able to uncover 
>material that changes our understanding, they could and would present it. 
>There are plenty of governments and groups that would fund them and protect 
>them.    They would have plenty of support and more money than they could 
>handle.
>
>But they don't do this because they just don't have and can't come up with 
>any material that can do this.  It doesn't exist, and is getting harder to 
>fabricate as more archval material becomes available.
>
>For an example, consider the non-existent "Krege report".    The idea is 
>that Krege used a GPR unit at Treblinka in 1999, and produced data that 
>could prove that no camp ever existed where Treblinka is and was.    He 
>apparently found no soil disturbances in an area where buildings had been 
>erected and farming had been practiced and that had been bombed repeatedly. 
>It shouldn't be too hard to detect a problem with the "no soil disturbance" 
>idea.
>
>So this "report", which should have taken no more than a few weeks to 
>prepare in 1999, has still not been delivered in 2009.     That's a decade 
>of failure to publish simple data.
>
>The reason for this failure cannot be a lack of funding or support, since 
>this material would be the 'holy grail' to governments that value Holocaust 
>denial as a political tool.  Krege would be awash in offers of cash, support 
>and benefits and offers to publish.   He would be an international star - 
>and rightly so.  So why hasn't he published?
>
>The reason Krege hasn't published can only be that his errors are so 
>egregious that even Leuchter supporters won't touch it.   It's likely that 
>Krege has himself realized the gross problems with his effort and is quietly 
>trying to fold his papers and leave the lectern.
>
>There simply is no rational reason to believe that the history of the 
>Holocaust differs in any significant way from what we understand it to be, 
>or that Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" have anything serious to offer. 
>If they did, we'd have seen it by now.
>
>
>>>Much of their material can be easily shown to be of very poor quality, and
>>>they aren't published in the mainstream journals because they are just not
>>>good enough.  Their work does not stand up to scrutiny.
>>>
>>>Meanwhile, the Iranian government set up and promoted a "conference" that
>>>was *exactly* what you pretend to abhor.   They deliberately held it in a
>>>place where only a select few of a specific viewpoint could attend; those
>>>who know most about the topic were prohibited, by law, from attending.
>>>
>>>This shows the inherent weakness of the Holocaust denier and "revisionist"
>>>position.  It just can not stand up to real scrutiny, and requires the
>>>active support of a government that suppresses other viewpoints with force
>>>of law, and I do mean force in the active sense.
>>>
>>>And yet, you are silent on this point.
>
>And still, you remain silent.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>>
>>>Not a word from you on the restrictive attendance policy or what it means
>>>about the validity of the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" "argument".
>>>
>>>And before you go off claiming that this is comparable to the situation 
>>>with
>>>the accepted view of the history,  it isn't.
>>>
>>>Remember that only a few countries outlaw Holocaust denial, and the 
>>>accepted
>>>view is not seriously challenged in countries where it is perfectly legal.
>>>The accepted history is the same whether Holocaust denial is legal or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been
>>>>>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has
>>>>>been
>>>>>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>>>>>
>>>>>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, one
>>>>>that
>>>>>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the
>>>>>topic.
>>>>>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide fuel
>>>>>to
>>>>>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has
>>>>>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24% 
>>>>>and
>>>>>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its
>>>>>infrastructure/.
>>>>>
>>>>>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government 
>>>>>that
>>>>>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to
>>>>>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling 
>>>>>for
>>>>>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison 
>>>>>sentences.
>>>>>
>>>>>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does 
>>>>>not
>>>>>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external enemies,
>>>>>because it is incompetent.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and
>>>>>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called 
>>>>>"good"
>>>>>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and
>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>crowd.
>>>>>
>>>>>HTH
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:31:28 EST 2009
Article: 1990928 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:03:19 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:o94so4d9msn6c01v2k5bubet1tlv8fn1kg@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:09:45 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:gnjro45apono9hh9747dfa17hub90hqac3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>>>>>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>>>>>> Press TV (Iran)
>>>>>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>>>>>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>>>>>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research on
>>>>>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>>>>>
>>>>>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched
>>>>>every
>>>>>day in Western countries.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody does "research" on this topic,
>>>
>>>Yes, they do.    There's plenty of real research and real debate that goes
>>>on all the time.
>>>
>>>Your denial of this doesn't affect reality.
>>>
>>>> because they approach the topic
>>>> with a closed mind set on the official version.
>>>
>>>Actually they start their approach from a study of the available data.
>>>
>>>If you have a problem with the data, or with the methods, why aren't you
>>>publishing your rebuttals?
>>>
>>>Accepting the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" version generally requires
>>>the *exclusion* of data, which is generally why it isn't used.   Getting
>>>caught excluding data is a fast track to loss of credibility, which is why
>>>"revisionists" have so little.
>>>
>>>> If your "research"
>>>> findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
>>>> career and possibly your freedom.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but this is just false, as the functionalist vs intentionalist
>>>debate, which ran for some time in countries where Holocaust denial faces
>>>legal sanctioned, shows.
>>>
>>>Despite all the arguing, lectures and publications, nobody was arrested,
>>>nobody's carrer was damaged and nobody went to jail.
>>>
>>>So we can readily see that what you pretend to base your "argument" on is
>>>not factual.    And it's not like this is even hard to find out.
>>>
>>>There are only a handful of countries where Holocaust denial is illegal, 
>>>and
>>>all of them made it illegal because what is underneath it is the promotion
>>>of racial ideologies that destroyed large portions of Europe and killed
>>>millions.    These countries have direct and bitter experience with that 
>>>and
>>>want nothing to do with the promotion of these ideologies.
>>>
>>>> The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
>>>> Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
>>>> about the findings before the research even starts.
>>>
>>>If you think that this is the case, please show us references to your
>>>challenges to the methods of these researchers in the peer-reviewed
>>>journals.   What letters or articles have you written showing that their
>>>data or methods are flawed or incorrect?
>>>
>>>Your "argument" referencing Dr. Cameron is undermined by the fact that 
>>>very
>>>few scientists or courts pay attention to him or respect his studies,
>>>methods, or data, largely because there have been numerous challenges to
>>>them, and his work hasn't withstood the challenges.
>>>
>>>In contrast, genuine historical researchers have their work checked by
>>>others and it does withstand challenges.
>>>
>>>If you want to make a valid comparison, you're going to have to do a *lot*
>>>better than this.  Perhaps you could start by trying to understand what a
>>>comparison *is*.
>>>
>>>There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have contributed
>>>anything significant or meaningful to our understanding of the history.
>>
>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>
>This is a false statement.
>
>All history is reviewed, including the history of the Holocaust, and all 
>study and contributions revise our understanding.
>
>Holocaust denial and "revisionism" is something entirely different, and is 
>not derived from a motivation to understand the real history.
>
>> The only thing unique about the holocaustT is that revisionism is
>> either prohibited or violently opposed.
>
>You haven't understood what I wrote at all, did you?
>
>The fact of the intentionalist vs. functionalist debate shows that your 
>"argument" in this case is not based on anything factual.

That is like any election in the USSR where all the candidates are
different flavours of Communist. Both functionalists and
intentionalists have bought into the dogma and are mainly arguing
about how many angels can sit on the head of a pin rather than if the
angels even exist in the first place.

>
>Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" are not engaged in real historical 
>efforts, and are treated according to their real political motivation.
>
>> Obviously the story does not stand up to criticism.
>
>If by this you mean the story presented by Holocaust deniers and 
>"revisionists", no, it doesn't.
>
>And that's strictly because there is no information from them that can 
>significantly change our understanding of the history.
>
>What Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" present is substandard at best, 
>and sometimes is outright fabrication.   It fails when challenged.
>
>Accepted history *does* stand up to criticism, or it wouldn't be accepted.
>
>> The Roman Church in the middle ages didn't like
>> revisionists such as Galileo who challenged their geocentric notions
>> of the universe.
>
>Perhaps you haven't noticed that for some timenow, even centuries, in the 
>Western world, religious groups no longer dictate to the scientific or 
>research communities.

The holocaust lobby seems to be the exception.

>
>Only in theocratic states is this still the case, and not co-incidentally, 
>that is where the primary market for Holocaust denial and "revisionist" 
>material exists.   In those jurisdictions, this is a tool of foreign policy, 
>a tool used to focus hatred to Jews and Israel - and to distract the 
>population from their own governments and leaders.
>
>It's telling that you raise this "argument" about the Roman church and don't 
>even understand that the only governments that support Holocaust denial and 
>"revisionism" are theocratic; in all other jurisdictions, free discussion 
>and criticism determines what is accepted.    Your "argument" thus 
>discredits itself.
>
>If Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" were actually able to uncover 
>material that changes our understanding, they could and would present it. 
>There are plenty of governments and groups that would fund them and protect 
>them.    They would have plenty of support and more money than they could 
>handle.
>
>But they don't do this because they just don't have and can't come up with 
>any material that can do this.  It doesn't exist, and is getting harder to 
>fabricate as more archval material becomes available.
>
>For an example, consider the non-existent "Krege report".    The idea is 
>that Krege used a GPR unit at Treblinka in 1999, and produced data that 
>could prove that no camp ever existed where Treblinka is and was.    He 
>apparently found no soil disturbances in an area where buildings had been 
>erected and farming had been practiced and that had been bombed repeatedly. 
>It shouldn't be too hard to detect a problem with the "no soil disturbance" 
>idea.
>
>So this "report", which should have taken no more than a few weeks to 
>prepare in 1999, has still not been delivered in 2009.     That's a decade 
>of failure to publish simple data.
>
>The reason for this failure cannot be a lack of funding or support, since 
>this material would be the 'holy grail' to governments that value Holocaust 
>denial as a political tool.  Krege would be awash in offers of cash, support 
>and benefits and offers to publish.   He would be an international star - 
>and rightly so.  So why hasn't he published?
>
>The reason Krege hasn't published can only be that his errors are so 
>egregious that even Leuchter supporters won't touch it.   It's likely that 
>Krege has himself realized the gross problems with his effort and is quietly 
>trying to fold his papers and leave the lectern.
>
>There simply is no rational reason to believe that the history of the 
>Holocaust differs in any significant way from what we understand it to be, 
>or that Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" have anything serious to offer. 
>If they did, we'd have seen it by now.
>
>
>>>Much of their material can be easily shown to be of very poor quality, and
>>>they aren't published in the mainstream journals because they are just not
>>>good enough.  Their work does not stand up to scrutiny.
>>>
>>>Meanwhile, the Iranian government set up and promoted a "conference" that
>>>was *exactly* what you pretend to abhor.   They deliberately held it in a
>>>place where only a select few of a specific viewpoint could attend; those
>>>who know most about the topic were prohibited, by law, from attending.
>>>
>>>This shows the inherent weakness of the Holocaust denier and "revisionist"
>>>position.  It just can not stand up to real scrutiny, and requires the
>>>active support of a government that suppresses other viewpoints with force
>>>of law, and I do mean force in the active sense.
>>>
>>>And yet, you are silent on this point.
>
>And still, you remain silent.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>>
>>>Not a word from you on the restrictive attendance policy or what it means
>>>about the validity of the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" "argument".
>>>
>>>And before you go off claiming that this is comparable to the situation 
>>>with
>>>the accepted view of the history,  it isn't.
>>>
>>>Remember that only a few countries outlaw Holocaust denial, and the 
>>>accepted
>>>view is not seriously challenged in countries where it is perfectly legal.
>>>The accepted history is the same whether Holocaust denial is legal or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been
>>>>>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has
>>>>>been
>>>>>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>>>>>
>>>>>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, one
>>>>>that
>>>>>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the
>>>>>topic.
>>>>>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide fuel
>>>>>to
>>>>>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has
>>>>>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24% 
>>>>>and
>>>>>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its
>>>>>infrastructure/.
>>>>>
>>>>>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government 
>>>>>that
>>>>>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to
>>>>>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling 
>>>>>for
>>>>>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison 
>>>>>sentences.
>>>>>
>>>>>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does 
>>>>>not
>>>>>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external enemies,
>>>>>because it is incompetent.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and
>>>>>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called 
>>>>>"good"
>>>>>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and
>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>crowd.
>>>>>
>>>>>HTH
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:32:20 EST 2009
Article: 2461219 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: They're of on the warcrimes bit again.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <8q1eo4l67mr91eflpb1gae2d1f2pbume3u@4ax.com>
References: <6vUfl.15200$cu.13253@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1817fc4b-c2aa-496a-8c5f-0a7c751b8b43@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <6uav9sFeinrfU1@mid.individual.net> <8ed470ad-578e-4c8b-a604-4a04203f4e10@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com> <8b057035-6e53-492f-93d1-7278a87c99bf@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <39e9c2dc-bc2e-4c97-86fa-b153113523f5@p23g2000prp.googlegroups.com> <8OqdnfrG_JvNGB7UnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com>  <6unu11Fgbho4U1@mid.individual.net>
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On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:51:28 -0000, "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."
 wrote:

>Westprog wrote:
>> B. Cramer wrote:
>>
>>>>> Not at all. far too many errors but Israeli friendly, just as you
>>>>> like it. Hamas did stop attacking Israel and Israel admitted they
>>>>> had, but don't let the truth get in the way of your bias.
>>
>>>> Does not that beg the question as to why Hamas was attacking Israel
>>>> in the first place?
>>
>>>> Why the car bombs?
>>
>>>> Why the suicide bombers?
>>
>>> All in retaliation for earlier yid atrocities committed against the
>>> Palestinian people.
>>
>>
>> The car and suicide bombs were carried out indiscriminately against
>> innocent civilians.
>>
>> However, they weren't taking place at the time of the Israeli attack
>> on Gaza. If the Palestinians are to be bombed, it should be for what
>> they are currently doing.
>
>Currently, they, Hamas, broke the ceasefire and attacked Israel with 
>rockets, injuring two people. Israel has since retaliated, justifiably so 
>IMO

There is no justification for the Israeli action. It is like you
murdering two of your neighbour's children because their dog crapped
on your lawn. That is essentially the Israeli notion of
disproportionate reprisal. In the USA you would end up in a gas
chamber or on a lethal injection table for your "disproportionate
reprisal", and in the long run, Israel's stupidity in Gaza will end in
Israel's demise.






>, and what is wrong with these Arabs? Never twist the tail of a Tiger you 
>have no defence against!


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:32:20 EST 2009
Article: 2461220 of soc.culture.usa
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: They're of on the warcrimes bit again.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <1817fc4b-c2aa-496a-8c5f-0a7c751b8b43@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <6uav9sFeinrfU1@mid.individual.net> <8ed470ad-578e-4c8b-a604-4a04203f4e10@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com> <8b057035-6e53-492f-93d1-7278a87c99bf@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <39e9c2dc-bc2e-4c97-86fa-b153113523f5@p23g2000prp.googlegroups.com> <8OqdnfrG_JvNGB7UnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com>  <6unu11Fgbho4U1@mid.individual.net> 
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 07:07:02 -0500, Eli Grubman
 wrote:

>On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:51:28 -0000, "Hal Ó Mearadhaigh."
> wrote:
>
>>Westprog wrote:
>>> B. Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. far too many errors but Israeli friendly, just as you
>>>>>> like it. Hamas did stop attacking Israel and Israel admitted they
>>>>>> had, but don't let the truth get in the way of your bias.
>>>
>>>>> Does not that beg the question as to why Hamas was attacking Israel
>>>>> in the first place?
>>>
>>>>> Why the car bombs?
>>>
>>>>> Why the suicide bombers?
>>>
>>>> All in retaliation for earlier yid atrocities committed against the
>>>> Palestinian people.
>>>
>>>
>>> The car and suicide bombs were carried out indiscriminately against
>>> innocent civilians.
>>>
>>> However, they weren't taking place at the time of the Israeli attack
>>> on Gaza. If the Palestinians are to be bombed, it should be for what
>>> they are currently doing.
>>
>>Currently, they, Hamas, broke the ceasefire and attacked Israel with 
>>rockets, injuring two people. Israel has since retaliated, justifiably so 
>>IMO, and what is wrong with these Arabs? Never twist the tail of a Tiger you 
>>have no defence against!
>
>Disproportionate retaliation is justified?  Are you some kind of th*ck
>Ir*sh boghopper?

Naturally, if disporportionate retaliation is OK, then all manner of
excesses can be excused. A Jewish Pole murdered the German legate in
Paris in 1938, so by the Israeli concept of disproportionate reprisal,
Kristallnacht was perfectly justified, since if one person from a
group does something reprehensible, they are all guilty according to
modern Israeli thinking.

>
>Eli


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Feb  8 02:32:20 EST 2009
Article: 2462996 of soc.culture.usa
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: G-D LOVES JEWS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PEOPLE ON EARTH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 16:34:19 -0800 (PST), NefeshBarYochai
 wrote:

>Jews are the cleanest, smartest, kindest, most generous modest people
>on the face of the earth and in the heavens above and all throughout
>the Universe.  Jews are the best people and G-d loves Jews more than
>any other people in existence.

LOL

Now all you need to to prove that your Jewish god actually exists, as
opposed to just being another religious fable of many.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:28 EDT 2009
Article: 1991226 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:19:19 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>Much of
>>the holocaust has been shown to have no basis, so it isn't exactly a
>>topic about which I feel any guilt or concern.
>
>You're apparently concerned enough to lie about it.
>
>
I don't lie about the so-called holocaust. I really don't have that
much interest in it. I just object to destructive lies designed to
make German people hate themselves so that they can be more easily
exploited.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:28 EDT 2009
Article: 1991227 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:18:48 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:f5mso45ont55cv3g05cme1bujtte4ugn4a@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:03:19 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:o94so4d9msn6c01v2k5bubet1tlv8fn1kg@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:09:45 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:gnjro45apono9hh9747dfa17hub90hqac3@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>>>>>>>> Press TV (Iran)
>>>>>>>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>>>>>>>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>>>>>>>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research 
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched
>>>>>>>every
>>>>>>>day in Western countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody does "research" on this topic,
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, they do.    There's plenty of real research and real debate that 
>>>>>goes
>>>>>on all the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your denial of this doesn't affect reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>> because they approach the topic
>>>>>> with a closed mind set on the official version.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually they start their approach from a study of the available data.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you have a problem with the data, or with the methods, why aren't you
>>>>>publishing your rebuttals?
>>>>>
>>>>>Accepting the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" version generally 
>>>>>requires
>>>>>the *exclusion* of data, which is generally why it isn't used.   Getting
>>>>>caught excluding data is a fast track to loss of credibility, which is 
>>>>>why
>>>>>"revisionists" have so little.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If your "research"
>>>>>> findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
>>>>>> career and possibly your freedom.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, but this is just false, as the functionalist vs intentionalist
>>>>>debate, which ran for some time in countries where Holocaust denial 
>>>>>faces
>>>>>legal sanctioned, shows.
>>>>>
>>>>>Despite all the arguing, lectures and publications, nobody was arrested,
>>>>>nobody's carrer was damaged and nobody went to jail.
>>>>>
>>>>>So we can readily see that what you pretend to base your "argument" on 
>>>>>is
>>>>>not factual.    And it's not like this is even hard to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are only a handful of countries where Holocaust denial is illegal,
>>>>>and
>>>>>all of them made it illegal because what is underneath it is the 
>>>>>promotion
>>>>>of racial ideologies that destroyed large portions of Europe and killed
>>>>>millions.    These countries have direct and bitter experience with that
>>>>>and
>>>>>want nothing to do with the promotion of these ideologies.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
>>>>>> Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
>>>>>> about the findings before the research even starts.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you think that this is the case, please show us references to your
>>>>>challenges to the methods of these researchers in the peer-reviewed
>>>>>journals.   What letters or articles have you written showing that their
>>>>>data or methods are flawed or incorrect?
>>>>>
>>>>>Your "argument" referencing Dr. Cameron is undermined by the fact that
>>>>>very
>>>>>few scientists or courts pay attention to him or respect his studies,
>>>>>methods, or data, largely because there have been numerous challenges to
>>>>>them, and his work hasn't withstood the challenges.
>>>>>
>>>>>In contrast, genuine historical researchers have their work checked by
>>>>>others and it does withstand challenges.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you want to make a valid comparison, you're going to have to do a 
>>>>>*lot*
>>>>>better than this.  Perhaps you could start by trying to understand what 
>>>>>a
>>>>>comparison *is*.
>>>>>
>>>>>There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have 
>>>>>contributed
>>>>>anything significant or meaningful to our understanding of the history.
>>>>
>>>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>>>
>>>This is a false statement.
>>>
>>>All history is reviewed, including the history of the Holocaust, and all
>>>study and contributions revise our understanding.
>>>
>>>Holocaust denial and "revisionism"
>>
>> I refuse to play your game and buy into your "newspeak".
>
>It's not a game and it's plain speaking.  Holocaust denial and "revisionism" 
>are not based on an honest evaluation of historical data or sources, and 
>does not value the truth.
>
>This is why the Iranian government chose to hold their Holcoaust 
>"revisionist conference" in a location where those truly familiar with the 
>topic would be barred, by force of arms, from attending.
>
>If Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" honestly valued truth and freedom of 
>speech, they would have themselves refused to attend because of this. 
>After all, these are the very people who complain long and loud about 
>restrictions on speech in a handful of countries.
>
>Instead, they chose to demonstrate a hypocritical double standard.
>
>I wonder how much they were paid.
>
>> You are just
>> like the American fundies with their loaded words of "lifestyle" and
>> "choice".
>
>So now the words and their real meanings give you problems.
>
>> Your stock phrase of "holocaust denial" is a tool for deception and
>> intimidation. Personally, I don't "deny" anything.
>
>Actually, you do, as you demonstrate just a few lines down.   You are quite 
>clear in it.
>
>Your inability to comprehend the meaning of your own words is revealing.
>
>> I don't "deny" the
>> tooth-fairy, for example, I just don't believe in it.
>>
>> I find your "evidence" half-baked and hence I don't believe all your
>> stories.
>
>Certainly there are a few aspects that have been shown to not be factual, 
>but the overwhelming majority of the evidence is clear, unambiguous, and has 
>withstood challenges and examination for over sixty years.
>
>> I would agree that large numbers of Jews died during WW2 and
>> that the NS authorities persecuted them,
>
>It went well beyond persecution into organised mass murder, not just of Jews 
>but of other groups as well.

That appears to be your claim, but I'm not convinced of its accuracy
or validity.

>
>And I think that you know this.
>
>> but I generally don't use
>> your newspeak word "holocaust" because it is a loaded term.
>
>So the words scare you?

The words are not frightening, but they are loaded in the same sense
as the question "How you stopped beating your wife?". No matter how
you answer, the result is damage.

>
>> Much of
>> the holocaust has been shown to have no basis,
>
>And this is where you demonstrate that you are, in fact, denying.
>
>This is denial because in fact, very little of the history has been shown to 
>"have no basis".   You deny that the evidence is valid.  But the evidence, 
>which is varied and voluminous, overwhelmingly shows that the events occured 
>largely as we understand them to have.
>
>Yes, there are a few incidents where the stories are not consistent with 
>what actually happened, but these are an insignifcantly small percentage.

That is simply your interpretation. Others may not share that
interpretation, but that hardly makes them reprehensible in some
fashion. That is the only unique thing about the holocaust, namely
that dissent is the same thing as heresy for some religious cult.

>
>> so it isn't exactly a
>> topic about which I feel any guilt or concern.
>
>And yet, as noted,  you find it necessary to misrepresent it.

Misrepresentation is almost entirely the province of some of my
opponents in this newsgroup, especially when they talk about Germany,
a country about which they apparently know or understand almost
nothing.

>
>-pk
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> is something entirely different, and is
>>>not derived from a motivation to understand the real history.
>>>
>>>> The only thing unique about the holocaustT is that revisionism is
>>>> either prohibited or violently opposed.
>>>
>>>You haven't understood what I wrote at all, did you?
>>>
>>>The fact of the intentionalist vs. functionalist debate shows that your
>>>"argument" in this case is not based on anything factual.
>>>
>>>Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" are not engaged in real historical
>>>efforts, and are treated according to their real political motivation.
>>>
>>>> Obviously the story does not stand up to criticism.
>>>
>>>If by this you mean the story presented by Holocaust deniers and
>>>"revisionists", no, it doesn't.
>>>
>>>And that's strictly because there is no information from them that can
>>>significantly change our understanding of the history.
>>>
>>>What Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" present is substandard at best,
>>>and sometimes is outright fabrication.   It fails when challenged.
>>>
>>>Accepted history *does* stand up to criticism, or it wouldn't be accepted.
>>>
>>>> The Roman Church in the middle ages didn't like
>>>> revisionists such as Galileo who challenged their geocentric notions
>>>> of the universe.
>>>
>>>Perhaps you haven't noticed that for some timenow, even centuries, in the
>>>Western world, religious groups no longer dictate to the scientific or
>>>research communities.
>>>
>>>Only in theocratic states is this still the case, and not co-incidentally,
>>>that is where the primary market for Holocaust denial and "revisionist"
>>>material exists.   In those jurisdictions, this is a tool of foreign 
>>>policy,
>>>a tool used to focus hatred to Jews and Israel - and to distract the
>>>population from their own governments and leaders.
>>>
>>>It's telling that you raise this "argument" about the Roman church and 
>>>don't
>>>even understand that the only governments that support Holocaust denial 
>>>and
>>>"revisionism" are theocratic; in all other jurisdictions, free discussion
>>>and criticism determines what is accepted.    Your "argument" thus
>>>discredits itself.
>>>
>>>If Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" were actually able to uncover
>>>material that changes our understanding, they could and would present it.
>>>There are plenty of governments and groups that would fund them and 
>>>protect
>>>them.    They would have plenty of support and more money than they could
>>>handle.
>>>
>>>But they don't do this because they just don't have and can't come up with
>>>any material that can do this.  It doesn't exist, and is getting harder to
>>>fabricate as more archval material becomes available.
>>>
>>>For an example, consider the non-existent "Krege report".    The idea is
>>>that Krege used a GPR unit at Treblinka in 1999, and produced data that
>>>could prove that no camp ever existed where Treblinka is and was.    He
>>>apparently found no soil disturbances in an area where buildings had been
>>>erected and farming had been practiced and that had been bombed 
>>>repeatedly.
>>>It shouldn't be too hard to detect a problem with the "no soil 
>>>disturbance"
>>>idea.
>>>
>>>So this "report", which should have taken no more than a few weeks to
>>>prepare in 1999, has still not been delivered in 2009.     That's a decade
>>>of failure to publish simple data.
>>>
>>>The reason for this failure cannot be a lack of funding or support, since
>>>this material would be the 'holy grail' to governments that value 
>>>Holocaust
>>>denial as a political tool.  Krege would be awash in offers of cash, 
>>>support
>>>and benefits and offers to publish.   He would be an international star -
>>>and rightly so.  So why hasn't he published?
>>>
>>>The reason Krege hasn't published can only be that his errors are so
>>>egregious that even Leuchter supporters won't touch it.   It's likely that
>>>Krege has himself realized the gross problems with his effort and is 
>>>quietly
>>>trying to fold his papers and leave the lectern.
>>>
>>>There simply is no rational reason to believe that the history of the
>>>Holocaust differs in any significant way from what we understand it to be,
>>>or that Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" have anything serious to 
>>>offer.
>>>If they did, we'd have seen it by now.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Much of their material can be easily shown to be of very poor quality, 
>>>>>and
>>>>>they aren't published in the mainstream journals because they are just 
>>>>>not
>>>>>good enough.  Their work does not stand up to scrutiny.
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile, the Iranian government set up and promoted a "conference" 
>>>>>that
>>>>>was *exactly* what you pretend to abhor.   They deliberately held it in 
>>>>>a
>>>>>place where only a select few of a specific viewpoint could attend; 
>>>>>those
>>>>>who know most about the topic were prohibited, by law, from attending.
>>>>>
>>>>>This shows the inherent weakness of the Holocaust denier and 
>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>position.  It just can not stand up to real scrutiny, and requires the
>>>>>active support of a government that suppresses other viewpoints with 
>>>>>force
>>>>>of law, and I do mean force in the active sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>And yet, you are silent on this point.
>>>
>>>And still, you remain silent.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not a word from you on the restrictive attendance policy or what it 
>>>>>means
>>>>>about the validity of the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" "argument".
>>>>>
>>>>>And before you go off claiming that this is comparable to the situation
>>>>>with
>>>>>the accepted view of the history,  it isn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>Remember that only a few countries outlaw Holocaust denial, and the
>>>>>accepted
>>>>>view is not seriously challenged in countries where it is perfectly 
>>>>>legal.
>>>>>The accepted history is the same whether Holocaust denial is legal or 
>>>>>not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been
>>>>>>>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has
>>>>>>>been
>>>>>>>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, 
>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the
>>>>>>>topic.
>>>>>>>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide 
>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has
>>>>>>>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24%
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its
>>>>>>>infrastructure/.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to
>>>>>>>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison
>>>>>>>sentences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external 
>>>>>>>enemies,
>>>>>>>because it is incompetent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and
>>>>>>>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called
>>>>>>>"good"
>>>>>>>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and
>>>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>>>crowd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>HTH
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:29 EDT 2009
Article: 1991228 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:36:30 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Get this on one straight I did grow up in a war and have seen all of it. 
>What can anyone do with your version that no on can investigate without 
>hindrance. The way you go about it is no different than the Spanish 
>inquisition.

The methods of the holocaust™ lobby are very similar to the form and
intent of the witch trials at Salem in the 17th century.





> and then we did have the dark middle ages where people where 
>killed for not believing in the holly ghost. your holocaust saga reminds me 
>of the middle ages since you holocaust as we know is based on intimidation 
>and blackmail. who give you Jews the right to make your holocaust as part of 
>a school curriculum the is forced onto others. How much education and 
>understanding the Germans have when they are coming out of your forced 
>holocaust education. Honesty and sincerity you people have never known. And 
>I would not trust you if you to pay me for it.
>Ps I hate falsehood with you I did hit the jackpot with you.
>Kurt Knoll
>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:g8qdnVx_taZPshPUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:o94so4d9msn6c01v2k5bubet1tlv8fn1kg@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:09:45 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>news:gnjro45apono9hh9747dfa17hub90hqac3@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:48:27 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:0mdho41dk3k9jb11b9utggcb958jtc4b6p@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Iran's President Rebukes Western Ban on Open Holocaust Research
>>>>>>> Press TV (Iran)
>>>>>>> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=83891§ionid=351020101
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Western countries have
>>>>>>> blocked research on the Holocaust to achieve their political
>>>>>>> objectives. "Western countries have prevented any kind of research on
>>>>>>> the Holocaust for almost 60 years
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is, frankly, bullshit.    The Holocaust is studied and researched
>>>>>>every
>>>>>>day in Western countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody does "research" on this topic,
>>>>
>>>>Yes, they do.    There's plenty of real research and real debate that 
>>>>goes
>>>>on all the time.
>>>>
>>>>Your denial of this doesn't affect reality.
>>>>
>>>>> because they approach the topic
>>>>> with a closed mind set on the official version.
>>>>
>>>>Actually they start their approach from a study of the available data.
>>>>
>>>>If you have a problem with the data, or with the methods, why aren't you
>>>>publishing your rebuttals?
>>>>
>>>>Accepting the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" version generally 
>>>>requires
>>>>the *exclusion* of data, which is generally why it isn't used.   Getting
>>>>caught excluding data is a fast track to loss of credibility, which is 
>>>>why
>>>>"revisionists" have so little.
>>>>
>>>>> If your "research"
>>>>> findings differ from the official version, count on sacrificing your
>>>>> career and possibly your freedom.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but this is just false, as the functionalist vs intentionalist
>>>>debate, which ran for some time in countries where Holocaust denial faces
>>>>legal sanctioned, shows.
>>>>
>>>>Despite all the arguing, lectures and publications, nobody was arrested,
>>>>nobody's carrer was damaged and nobody went to jail.
>>>>
>>>>So we can readily see that what you pretend to base your "argument" on is
>>>>not factual.    And it's not like this is even hard to find out.
>>>>
>>>>There are only a handful of countries where Holocaust denial is illegal, 
>>>>and
>>>>all of them made it illegal because what is underneath it is the 
>>>>promotion
>>>>of racial ideologies that destroyed large portions of Europe and killed
>>>>millions.    These countries have direct and bitter experience with that 
>>>>and
>>>>want nothing to do with the promotion of these ideologies.
>>>>
>>>>> The holocaust "researchers" do the same kind of research as Paul
>>>>> Cameron does on sexuality, where Cameron already has his mind made up
>>>>> about the findings before the research even starts.
>>>>
>>>>If you think that this is the case, please show us references to your
>>>>challenges to the methods of these researchers in the peer-reviewed
>>>>journals.   What letters or articles have you written showing that their
>>>>data or methods are flawed or incorrect?
>>>>
>>>>Your "argument" referencing Dr. Cameron is undermined by the fact that 
>>>>very
>>>>few scientists or courts pay attention to him or respect his studies,
>>>>methods, or data, largely because there have been numerous challenges to
>>>>them, and his work hasn't withstood the challenges.
>>>>
>>>>In contrast, genuine historical researchers have their work checked by
>>>>others and it does withstand challenges.
>>>>
>>>>If you want to make a valid comparison, you're going to have to do a 
>>>>*lot*
>>>>better than this.  Perhaps you could start by trying to understand what a
>>>>comparison *is*.
>>>>
>>>>There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have contributed
>>>>anything significant or meaningful to our understanding of the history.
>>>
>>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>>
>> This is a false statement.
>>
>> All history is reviewed, including the history of the Holocaust, and all 
>> study and contributions revise our understanding.
>>
>> Holocaust denial and "revisionism" is something entirely different, and is 
>> not derived from a motivation to understand the real history.
>>
>>> The only thing unique about the holocaustT is that revisionism is
>>> either prohibited or violently opposed.
>>
>> You haven't understood what I wrote at all, did you?
>>
>> The fact of the intentionalist vs. functionalist debate shows that your 
>> "argument" in this case is not based on anything factual.
>>
>> Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" are not engaged in real historical 
>> efforts, and are treated according to their real political motivation.
>>
>>> Obviously the story does not stand up to criticism.
>>
>> If by this you mean the story presented by Holocaust deniers and 
>> "revisionists", no, it doesn't.
>>
>> And that's strictly because there is no information from them that can 
>> significantly change our understanding of the history.
>>
>> What Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" present is substandard at best, 
>> and sometimes is outright fabrication.   It fails when challenged.
>>
>> Accepted history *does* stand up to criticism, or it wouldn't be accepted.
>>
>>> The Roman Church in the middle ages didn't like
>>> revisionists such as Galileo who challenged their geocentric notions
>>> of the universe.
>>
>> Perhaps you haven't noticed that for some timenow, even centuries, in the 
>> Western world, religious groups no longer dictate to the scientific or 
>> research communities.
>>
>> Only in theocratic states is this still the case, and not co-incidentally, 
>> that is where the primary market for Holocaust denial and "revisionist" 
>> material exists.   In those jurisdictions, this is a tool of foreign 
>> policy, a tool used to focus hatred to Jews and Israel - and to distract 
>> the population from their own governments and leaders.
>>
>> It's telling that you raise this "argument" about the Roman church and 
>> don't even understand that the only governments that support Holocaust 
>> denial and "revisionism" are theocratic; in all other jurisdictions, free 
>> discussion and criticism determines what is accepted.    Your "argument" 
>> thus discredits itself.
>>
>> If Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" were actually able to uncover 
>> material that changes our understanding, they could and would present it. 
>> There are plenty of governments and groups that would fund them and 
>> protect them.    They would have plenty of support and more money than 
>> they could handle.
>>
>> But they don't do this because they just don't have and can't come up with 
>> any material that can do this.  It doesn't exist, and is getting harder to 
>> fabricate as more archval material becomes available.
>>
>> For an example, consider the non-existent "Krege report".    The idea is 
>> that Krege used a GPR unit at Treblinka in 1999, and produced data that 
>> could prove that no camp ever existed where Treblinka is and was.    He 
>> apparently found no soil disturbances in an area where buildings had been 
>> erected and farming had been practiced and that had been bombed 
>> repeatedly. It shouldn't be too hard to detect a problem with the "no soil 
>> disturbance" idea.
>>
>> So this "report", which should have taken no more than a few weeks to 
>> prepare in 1999, has still not been delivered in 2009.     That's a decade 
>> of failure to publish simple data.
>>
>> The reason for this failure cannot be a lack of funding or support, since 
>> this material would be the 'holy grail' to governments that value 
>> Holocaust denial as a political tool.  Krege would be awash in offers of 
>> cash, support and benefits and offers to publish.   He would be an 
>> international star - and rightly so.  So why hasn't he published?
>>
>> The reason Krege hasn't published can only be that his errors are so 
>> egregious that even Leuchter supporters won't touch it.   It's likely that 
>> Krege has himself realized the gross problems with his effort and is 
>> quietly trying to fold his papers and leave the lectern.
>>
>> There simply is no rational reason to believe that the history of the 
>> Holocaust differs in any significant way from what we understand it to be, 
>> or that Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" have anything serious to 
>> offer. If they did, we'd have seen it by now.
>>
>>
>>>>Much of their material can be easily shown to be of very poor quality, 
>>>>and
>>>>they aren't published in the mainstream journals because they are just 
>>>>not
>>>>good enough.  Their work does not stand up to scrutiny.
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile, the Iranian government set up and promoted a "conference" that
>>>>was *exactly* what you pretend to abhor.   They deliberately held it in a
>>>>place where only a select few of a specific viewpoint could attend; those
>>>>who know most about the topic were prohibited, by law, from attending.
>>>>
>>>>This shows the inherent weakness of the Holocaust denier and 
>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>position.  It just can not stand up to real scrutiny, and requires the
>>>>active support of a government that suppresses other viewpoints with 
>>>>force
>>>>of law, and I do mean force in the active sense.
>>>>
>>>>And yet, you are silent on this point.
>>
>> And still, you remain silent.
>>
>> -pk
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Not a word from you on the restrictive attendance policy or what it means
>>>>about the validity of the Holocaust denier or "revisionist" "argument".
>>>>
>>>>And before you go off claiming that this is comparable to the situation 
>>>>with
>>>>the accepted view of the history,  it isn't.
>>>>
>>>>Remember that only a few countries outlaw Holocaust denial, and the 
>>>>accepted
>>>>view is not seriously challenged in countries where it is perfectly 
>>>>legal.
>>>>The accepted history is the same whether Holocaust denial is legal or 
>>>>not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-pk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Holocaust Deniers and "revisionists" have been
>>>>>>able to present opposing views in various forums, their "evidence" has
>>>>>>been
>>>>>>examined, and on the whole been demonstrated worthless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And Mr. Ahmadinejad's idea was to hold a "conference" on the topic, one
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>he ensured could not be attended by those who knew the most about the
>>>>>>topic.
>>>>>>Apparently, his version of history cannot bear scrutiny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, this is a flat-out lie by a foolish "leader" who cannot provide 
>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>his own people to keep them from freezing to death in winter,  who has
>>>>>>mismanaged his country, which has an annual inflation rage of over 24% 
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>has to *import* fuel because his government has neglected its
>>>>>>infrastructure/.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This statement is nothing but political propaganda from a government 
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>extended a death sentence to a citizen who urged other citizens not to
>>>>>>follow their political and religious leaders "like monkeys".   Calling 
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>an end to rule by clergy can, and has, resulted in long prison 
>>>>>>sentences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This looks to me like an action of a government that desperately does 
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>want its people to look behind the curtain.   It needs external 
>>>>>>enemies,
>>>>>>because it is incompetent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And it's interesting that this kind of government - one that kills and
>>>>>>imprisons its citizens to stifle dissent and expression - is called 
>>>>>>"good"
>>>>>>by "Topaz", and is warmly embraced by the Holocaust Denier and
>>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>>crowd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>HTH
>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:30 EDT 2009
Article: 1991232 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:35:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/7/2009 5:57 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have 
>>> contributed anything significant or meaningful to our understanding
>>>  of the history.
>> 
>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaust™.
>> 
>> 
>That of course is balderdash.  An essay I wrote a long time ago rebuts
>this foolishness.
>
>
>
>On its basic level, revisionism is nothing more than than the advocacy
>of revision, which in itself is the act of revising, or modifying
>something that already exists. Applied to history, it means that
>historians challenge the accepted version of the causes or consequences
>of historical events. As such, it is an accepted and important part of
>historical endeavour for it serves the dual purpose of constantly
>re-examining the past while also improving our understanding of it.
>Indeed, if one accepts that history attempts to help us better
>understand today by better understanding how we got here, revisionism is
>essential.
>
>Three examples of legitimate historical revisionism should suffice to
>illustrate this:
>
>1. A.J.P. Taylor has applied a very new interpretation to the events
>leading up to the Second World War. He minimizes Hitler's role in those
>events - the Anschluß with Austria, the annexation of the Sudetenland,
>the Danzig crisis, the role of the Allies, appeasement - compared to the
>standard interpretation, while portraying Nazi Germany as much less
>centralized and monolithic than the norm. 3
>
>2. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen has challenged virtually all the usual
>interpretations of the reasons for the complicity of many Germans in the
>perpetration of the Holocaust, and has posited that ordinary Germans
>willingly involved themselves because of the existence of a deep-rooted,
>eliminationist antisemitism in Germans of that era. He downplays, if not
>outright dismisses, the influence of Hitler and the Nazi Party. 4

Goldhagen should be stripped of his academic credentials, since his
trash work is nothing less than baseless anti-German hate propaganda.

>
>3. German historian Christian Gerlach has interpreted a diary entry
>by Joseph Goebbels and a newly discovered one from Heinrich Himmler to
>mean that the date of the decision by Hitler to exterminate the Jews is
>in December 1941 rather than late spring or early summer as most have
>till now believed. 5
>
>[...]
>
>"Revisionists" depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not
>occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that
>preordained conclusion.

That is nonsense. The holocaust™ story is more flexible than Jell-O,
and as various aspects are disproven, the story adjusts to keep the
basic claims intact. In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.


> Put another way, they reverse the proper
>methodology described above, thus turning the proper historical method
>of investigation and analysis on its head. That is not to say that
>historians never depart from a preconceived or desired result; they
>often do. But in adhering rigorously to the correct methodology, they
>accept that the result of their investigation may not be what they
>envisaged at the beginning. They are prepared to adapt their theories to
>that reality. Indeed, they are often required to revise their
>conclusions based on the facts. To put it tritely, "revisionists" revise
>the facts based on their conclusion.
>
>
>
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/revisionism-isnt/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:31 EDT 2009
Article: 1991235 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:42:21 -0600, Topaz 
wrote:

>
>"There was a written order for the invasion
>of the Soviet Union, a long and detailed order signed by Hitler
>himself.  It was labeled Directive 21--Operation Barbarossa. And there
>were more directives as the war in Russia was raging.  There was one
>concerning the battle of Stalingrad. Hitler was fond of issuing
>detailed orders to his armies, extending into both strategic and
>tactical matters.  You can find an English translation of Directive 21
>at: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1084/hitler_directives/dir21.htm
>
>      Now it's your turn.  Show us one, just one, written order or
>directive by Hitler relating to the murder of Jews.  It doesn't have
>to be detailed, just clear and unambiguous.  Let's make it easier for
>you.  Just show us one, just one, order signed by anyone, of any rank,
>in any position of authority, whether military or civilian, ordering
>the gassing of Jews at any time, at any place, at any concentration
>camp, in any country.
>
>  That should be pretty easy if indeed there was a Holocaust--if
>indeed the Germans really did kill Jews by the hundreds of thousands.
>Such a monstrous and wide-reaching program of mass murder simply could
>not have been carried out without some written directions, without
>some official orders passed down through the ranks, with multiple
>copies to headquarters, without some reports passed back up the ranks
>that the terrible orders had been successfully carried out.  That's
>the way military and civilian bureaucracies work--paper, paper,
>paper--and the Germans were known to be meticulous record keepers.  So
>where, oh where, are all those documents on the ghastly gassings at
>Auschwitz, Treblinka, Chelmno, Sobibor, Belzec, Mauthausen, and other
>fabled "death camps?"

Generally such programs require money, and no Reichstag has ever voted
money for such a project. The whole "proof" for the story consists of
a paper blizzard of depositions by Jewish inmates (not others in the
same places) and bogus "confessions" extracted by torture from camp
employees.

Neither McFee, or anybody else, has yet been able to explain how the
corpses of Hungarian Jews burned underwater at Auschwitz, since the
water table is less than two feet below the surface at that location.
Why were the burning pits not seen on allied air photographs taken
during the period of the alleged burning?

>
>Morghus
>
>     Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64:
>
>"the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
>destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
>extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
>would quarrel over just what happened"
>
>      The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is
>because there was no extermination plan. The Germans planned to deport
>the Jews out of Germany. The records show that they planned to move
>them to Madagascar.
>
>
>http://www.ihr.org/   http:// www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/    
>
>http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>
>http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html     


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:31 EDT 2009
Article: 1991237 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:59:28 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote
>         in message <8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com>: 
>
>>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>
>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>
>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>> denial?
>
>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>
>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>
>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>
>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>>one:
>>
>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>denial.

Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
holocaust story is indeed a crime.

De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
on this topic irrelevant.

>
>Did you even read your source?
>
>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>the Lipstadt trial?
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:31 EDT 2009
Article: 1991239 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:49:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/6/2009 11:29 AM, Eli Grubman wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:17:46 +0000, Daniel Bernard
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:16:58 -0500, Eli Grubman
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good luck, asshole.  Most jews are moving *away* from 'Israel'.
>>>> Even to places such as Germany,
>>> Some people never learn huh, though the Krauts are welcome to 'em tbh.
>> 
>> What was that Santayana said about people who forget history?
>
>They become denier trash.

LOL, Gordie, just because you assemble an amateurish and unconvincing
story, it does not follow that the people who see through the nonsense
are somehow "deniers" or some other bit of childish name-calling.

People do not believe in your story because much of your story makes
no sense, either historically or scientifically. The fault is 100.0%
yours, not with the incredulous reader or listener who rejects your
material.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:32 EDT 2009
Article: 1991240 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:17:10 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"

Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:32 EDT 2009
Article: 1991241 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:17:10 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <6mlro4530rn3efm4ven9qla1pi3hece3jn@4ax.com>: 
>
>>On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:40:13 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>(Well, I
>>>>>>>>suppose a new addition is about due, since the story does change from 
>>>>>>>>time
>>>>>>>>to time.)
>
>>>>>>> As does all history, when new information becomes available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But wait -- you claim that the Holocaust "story" can never change
>>>>>>> because it is illegal.
>
>>>>>>Bullshit. That makes no sense and obviously I never said any such thing. 
>>>>>>On
>>>>>>the contrary, I have said repeatedly that the Holocaust story is in a 
>>>>>>state
>>>>>>of more or less continuous change as older parts are shown to be 
>>>>>>ridiculous
>>>>>>and the story is adjusted to suit. (For example, the story no longer has
>>>>>>Zyklon B gas coming out of shower heads. That part of the fairy tale has
>>>>>>been abandoned. So has the soap made from "pure Jewish fat.")
>
>>>>> The normative understanding
>
>>>>Ah, "normative" again! What a wonderfully defensive word you seem to believe 
>>>>that to be. Any Holocaust story later proven to be nonsense can be excused 
>>>>on the grounds it wasn't "normative," which evidently is a term to be 
>>>>retroactively applied as necessary for defense of the overall fable.
>
>>>So, you don't understand what "normative" means.  Might I suggest you
>>>educate yourself?
>
>>>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower
>>>>> heads.  Nor did it have "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>
>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
>>you already were.
>
>I'm not running from my lies like you, "johannes."

No, "Roger", you are standing by your lies on the assumption that
others are too stupid to see through them.

>
>>>>No one raised the question of whether it was 
>>>>"normative" history at the time. It was just part of the bullshit that was 
>>>>expected to be accepted by all, and of course anyone who questioned it would 
>>>>be condemned as a "Holocaust denier" -- at the very least.
>
>>>>> Any more than the
>>>>> normative understanding of the American Revolution depend on George
>>>>> Washington throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac.
>
>>>>But Washington's trans-Potomac silver dollar pitch was nowhere near as 
>>>>important to that part of American history as the poison-gas-spewing shower 
>>>>heads were to the Holocaust mythology.
>
>>>On what objective scale do you assert this?
>
>>>>> Which reminds me:  got any proof that at the time they were called
>>>>> "silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars?"
>
>>>>Sure. From Wikipedia:
>>>>
>>>>"Before the Revolutionary War, coins from many European nations circulated 
>>>>freely in the American colonies, as well as decimal coinage issued by the 
>>>>various colonies. Chief among these was the Spanish silver "dollar" coins 
>>>>(also called pieces of eight or eight reales) minted in Mexico and other 
>>>>colonies with silver mined from Central and South American mines. These 
>>>>coins, along with others of similar size and value, were in use throughout 
>>>>the colonies and later the United States and were legal tender until 1857."
>>>>
>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_(United_States_coin) 
>
>>>Nothing there even pretends to show that at the time they were called
>>>"silver dollars" and not "Spanish dollars."
>>>
>>>Care to try again?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1991242 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
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On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:55:41 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/5/2009 7:28 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>
>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> news:11vmo456lbfgcj7imubpujdhgeo4llrmr0@4ax.com...
>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>>> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>>> message :
>>> 
>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:hssmo455vmffkji8ckejl8m903rgho1ejr@4ax.com...
>>>>>> (Well, I suppose a new addition is about due, since the story
>>>>>> does change from time to time.)
>>>>> As does all history, when new information becomes available.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But wait -- you claim that the Holocaust "story" can never
>>>>> change because it is illegal.
>>>> Bullshit. That makes no sense and obviously I never said any such
>>>> thing. On the contrary, I have said repeatedly that the Holocaust
>>>> story is in a state of more or less continuous change as older
>>>> parts are shown to be ridiculous and the story is adjusted to
>>>> suit. (For example, the story no longer has Zyklon B gas coming
>>>> out of shower heads. That part of the fairy tale has been
>>>> abandoned. So has the soap made from "pure Jewish fat.")
>>> The normative understanding
>> 
>> Ah, "normative" again! What a wonderfully defensive word you seem to
>> believe that to be. Any Holocaust story later proven to be nonsense
>> can be excused on the grounds it wasn't "normative," which evidently
>> is a term to be retroactively applied as necessary for defense of the
>> overall fable.
>
>Those particular Holocaust stories were never accepted by historians,
>which is why they are not dismissed.  They were never accepted in the
>first place other than by deniers, who used them as straw men, so they
>could pretend parts of the Holocaust story had been disproved.

You're talking through your hat, Gordie. Many of the stories were an
integral part of holocaust lore until they were disproven. Your buddy
Shirer certainly wrote them up as "fact" in his polemic, including
such pearls as the soap and lampshade stories.

>
>But in any event, do you believe that if any part of the Holocaust story
>is disproved, all of it is?  Because that is what you seem to be saying.
>
>[...]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1991243 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 06:16:23 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 5, 6:29 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <9f6dnRwizZc-3RbUnZ2dnUVZ_sPin...@giganews.com>,
>>
>> Neil Harrington  wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >The Germans were arguably the worst victims of WW2, considering the wanton
>> >carpet bombing of her cities, the mass rapes and other war crimes especially
>> >by the occupying Reds, and the postwar show trials and executions of her
>> >political and military leaders as well as civilians. Yet Merkel and other
>> >Germans like her seem to be still endlessly apologizing, 60+ years after the
>> >event, and still paying "reparations" and other forms of extortion to Israel
>> >and "Holocaust survivors."
>>
>> What complete horsepucky.
>>
>> The Germans got what they should have expected, having initiated a brutal
>> war that led to the death of some 60 million people.
>>
>
>McFilth.  You are a filthy man for condoning the deaths of millions of
>innocent people.  Including babies, old men, young men, women who were
>pregnant, etc.  What kind of morality do you possess anyway?  Is the
>province of BC aware of your hatred and believer in absolute
>disgusting murder?  I say this, not as an insult, but as someone who
>has been so disgusted by you and your views:  You are absolute fucking
>shit.  I don't possess words to really say what I mean; I am not
>easily disgusted, but you are just disgusting fucking shit.

You have accurately summarized my opinion of McVay as well. The guy is
human garbage, and his insane Germanophobia is one of the reasons that
I take his holocaust babble with a large grain of salt. When he tells
such obvious lies about Germany and his people, how likely is it that
his other stuff represents "truth". 

>
>
>> It is telling that the German government, and the German people, have no
>> patience for those, like you, who insist upon apologizing for the Nazis
>> and minimizing their horrible crimes against humanity.
>>
>> --
>> "Hey Kenneth there are people dying now that never did dye before."
>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat's Leading Revisionist Scholar and Reigning
>> Village Idiot)
>> The Nizkor Project                            http://www.nizkor.org


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:33 EDT 2009
Article: 1991244 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Russia's Attitude Toward Neo-Nazis
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 07:56:39 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 8, 9:26 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> http://www.mnweekly.ru/news/20081121/55357975.html
>
>UN adopts Russia’s anti-Nazi resolution
>> print version
>
>Ho Ho Ho and a bottle of rum.
>First of all I'd like also to honor those SS veterans who fought for
>Germany during WWII.
>Second of all, I hope you like how your tax dollars are being spent
>supporting UN paperwork.
>Third of all, notice all of the PC words they use; combating racism,
>discrim, xenophobia and related intolerance.
>Fourth of all, there is consternation because the Soviets fought the
>fascists.  That statement alone implies that the Soviets had a better,
>more humane system.  Um.  Why can't I swallow that?
>Fifth of all, parades honoring the SS are of course moral, since the
>Waffen SS was a superior fighting force.  Hey, I don't like to admit
>it either(LOL), but facts is facts.
>I don't agree that remains of soldiers should be disturbed.
>Sixth of all, Soviet era monuments should be desecrated, since the
>Soviet Union has the worst record (in recent history) for Human Rights
>Violations.
>Seventh of all, Russian nationals in Latvia and Estonia should not be
>harassed.  Former veterans were following orders, so they should be
>left in peace.
>
>{
>UN (RIA Novosti) - The UN General Assembly on social and humanitarian
>issues has adopted a draft resolution proposed by Russia on tackling a
>rise in the glorification of Nazism and the desecration of WWII
>monuments.
>
>The draft resolution on "combating racism, racial discrimination,
>xenophobia and related intolerance," is aimed at tackling the practice
>in the former Soviet republics of Latvia and Estonia of honoring SS
>veterans who fought for Nazi Germany during WWII.
>Capture the Season's Best Memories
>Get a free Sony Cybershot 10MP camera and Sony 9" Digital Picture
>Frame!
>ElectronicsSource.us.com
>
>"Nazi monuments are unveiled in a ceremonial atmosphere and the dates
>of liberation from the Nazis are proclaimed as days of mourning,"
>Russia's UN representative, Grigory Lykyantsev, told the UN, adding
>that "this attitude towards anti-fascist veterans plays into the hands
>of those who call for ‘a pure race.'"
>
>The resolution was passed with 122 countries voting in favor, while 54
>delegations abstained, including Ukraine, Estonia and Latvia. Only the
>U.S. voted against. The resolution is now practically guaranteed to be
>adopted at the next UN General Assembly session in December.
>
>Parades in honor of Waffen-SS veterans, involving veterans from the
>Latvian Legion and the 20th Esto­nian SS Division and their
>supporters, are held annually in Latvia and Estonia. Russia has
>repeatedly criticized the Baltic States for allowing these parades to
>take place.
>
>Another former Soviet republic, Ukraine, announced plans in July to
>erect a statue in Lutsk, western Ukraine, honor of Stepan Bandera, a
>leader of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) that fought against the
>Soviets during WWII.
>
>The resolution also raises Russian concerns over the dismantling and
>desecration of Soviet-era WWII monuments and the "unlawful exhu­
>mation" or transfer of the remains of those killed in the fight
>against fascism.
>
>The dismantling in Tallinn of the Soviet war memorial, the Bronze
>Soldier,

In Germany, similar statues are described by the locals as monuments
to the "Unknown rapist" and I heartily applaud the Estonians on the
recycling of their Soviet monstrosities into useful objects such as
door knobs or toilet-flush handles.

> just before the May 9, 2007 Victory Day celebrations in
>Russia led to street protests in which over 1,000 people were arrested
>and one Russian national was killed.
>Relations between Russia and Latvia and Estonia have also been
>strained over what Moscow calls the two states' unequal treatment of
>ethnic Russians, the alleged persecution of Soviet WWII veterans, and
>the apparent revival of nationalism and fascism.
>}
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:34 EDT 2009
Article: 1991245 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFilthy believes in collective guilt
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 06:38:02 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>as in he has stated in the past, and in the very recent past that the
>German people got what they deserved at war's end.  Well McFilthy then
>since you believe in collective guilt and since you are a European,
>then the responsibility of the genocide of American (especially since
>you are from the ole US of A) Indians must fall right into your lap.
>Also, since Europeans were involved in genocidal behaviour in the
>lands down under, you are responsible for their actions.  McFilthy,
>are you not, under the law of collective guilt, are you not
>responsible for Apartheid in South Africa, and slavery in the US as
>well as segregation  in the US?  Find the nearest courtroom asshole
>and CONFESS!
>Let me guess McFilth.  Had you been in Germany during WWII, you would
>have been a sabatour, a savior of Jews, Gypsies, and others.  You
>would have resisted.  Am I right or wrong Mr. McBullshit.
>Along with our friend Sterling Hayden, you would have jumped into
>Yugoslavia and armed the partisans, breathing fire, and eating nails
>for breakfast.  Am I right McIdiot?  Had the einsatzgruppen approached
>you and asked you to interpret, you would have told them to take a
>flying one.  Ain't that right Mr. armchair brave one.  I think you are
>the only person on this NG to seriously support the murder, burning
>etc. of an entire people.  You wanking garbage.

McVay is a sanctimonious, insincere, hypocritical jackass.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:34 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFilthy believes in collective guilt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 08:28:45 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 8, 9:38 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>wrote:
>> as in he has stated in the past, and in the very recent past that the
>> German people got what they deserved at war's end.  Well McFilthy then
>> since you believe in collective guilt and since you are a European,
>> then the responsibility of the genocide of American (especially since
>> you are from the ole US of A) Indians must fall right into your lap.
>> Also, since Europeans were involved in genocidal behaviour in the
>> lands down under, you are responsible for their actions.  McFilthy,
>> are you not, under the law of collective guilt, are you not
>> responsible for Apartheid in South Africa, and slavery in the US as
>> well as segregation  in the US?  Find the nearest courtroom asshole
>> and CONFESS!
>> Let me guess McFilth.  Had you been in Germany during WWII, you would
>> have been a sabatour, a savior of Jews, Gypsies, and others.  You
>> would have resisted.  Am I right or wrong Mr. McBullshit.
>> Along with our friend Sterling Hayden, you would have jumped into
>> Yugoslavia and armed the partisans, breathing fire, and eating nails
>> for breakfast.  Am I right McIdiot?  Had the einsatzgruppen approached
>> you and asked you to interpret, you would have told them to take a
>> flying one.  Ain't that right Mr. armchair brave one.  I think you are
>> the only person on this NG to seriously support the murder, burning
>> etc. of an entire people.  You wanking garbage.
>
>Ooops.  I have recently found out that Mr. Joe Bruno supports the
>murder of innocent people as well; as long as they are not his chosen
>people.

Their outrage at atrocities is selective in the extreme.

>McVay watch:  http://event13.blogspot.com/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:34 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFilthy believes in collective guilt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:33:53 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 8, 4:04 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 8:28 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 8, 9:38 am, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > as in he has stated in the past, and in the very recent past that the
>> > > German people got what they deserved at war's end.  Well McFilthy then
>> > > since you believe in collective guilt and since you are a European,
>> > > then the responsibility of the genocide of American (especially since
>> > > you are from the ole US of A) Indians must fall right into your lap.
>> > > Also, since Europeans were involved in genocidal behaviour in the
>> > > lands down under, you are responsible for their actions.  McFilthy,
>> > > are you not, under the law of collective guilt, are you not
>> > > responsible for Apartheid in South Africa, and slavery in the US as
>> > > well as segregation  in the US?  Find the nearest courtroom asshole
>> > > and CONFESS!
>> > > Let me guess McFilth.  Had you been in Germany during WWII, you would
>> > > have been a sabatour, a savior of Jews, Gypsies, and others.  You
>> > > would have resisted.  Am I right or wrong Mr. McBullshit.
>> > > Along with our friend Sterling Hayden, you would have jumped into
>> > > Yugoslavia and armed the partisans, breathing fire, and eating nails
>> > > for breakfast.  Am I right McIdiot?  Had the einsatzgruppen approached
>> > > you and asked you to interpret, you would have told them to take a
>> > > flying one.  Ain't that right Mr. armchair brave one.  I think you are
>> > > the only person on this NG to seriously support the murder, burning
>> > > etc. of an entire people.  You wanking garbage.
>>
>> > Ooops.  I have recently found out that Mr. Joe Bruno supports the
>> > murder of innocent people as well; as long as they are not his chosen
>> > people.
>>
>> No, I don't.  I said I can not condemn the Russians for taking revenge
>> on the German Army.
>> I don't endorse what they did to German civilians.
>>
>> Incidentally, your precious Germans also murdered POWS, Americans at
>> Malmedy and Russians at Auschwitz.
>
>I'm not denying that.  Since you don't condemn the Russians for taking
>revenge, how can you condemn the Germans for taking revenge?

The Americans are hypocritical in the extreme whining about Malmedy,
considering what they did to German soldiers who surrendered in the
months leading up to Malmedy.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:35 EDT 2009
Article: 1991251 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kahane won
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On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 01:37:51 -0800 (PST), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 9 Feb, 08:47, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> Rabbi Meir Kahane can rest in peace: His doctrine has won. Twenty years
>> after his Knesset list was disqualified and 18 years after he was murdered,
>> Kahanism has become legitimate in public discourse. If there is something
>> that typifies Israel's current murky, hollow election campaign, which ends
>> the day after tomorrow, it is the transformation of racism and nationalism
>> into accepted values.
>>
>
>By Gideon Levy "the Lord Haw-Haw of Israeli
>journalism"  (Steven Plaut)

The truth hurts, Ariadne. Israel was a mistake that history will
eventually correct, just like it corrected the European crusader
states on that same territory a few centuries in the past.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:35 EDT 2009
Article: 1991891 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <3rg0p41djn1nhoe99uj7vseia8e8umfs02@4ax.com>: 
>
>>On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:19:19 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>Much of
>>>>the holocaust has been shown to have no basis, so it isn't exactly a
>>>>topic about which I feel any guilt or concern.
>
>>>You're apparently concerned enough to lie about it.
>
>>I don't lie about the so-called holocaust. I really don't have that
>>much interest in it. I just object to destructive lies designed to
>>make German people hate themselves so that they can be more easily
>>exploited.
>
>That statement itself is a lie, given that above you lie that "much of
>the holocaust has been shown to have no basis."

You're babbling incoherently, Roger.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:36 EDT 2009
Article: 1991893 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
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On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 23:46:38 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:bih0p4p2si2lmbbp1mjmdl1ndf325j8e6p@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:35:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2/7/2009 5:57 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>>> There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have
>>>>> contributed anything significant or meaningful to our understanding
>>>>>  of the history.
>>>>
>>>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>That of course is balderdash.  An essay I wrote a long time ago rebuts
>>>this foolishness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On its basic level, revisionism is nothing more than than the advocacy
>>>of revision, which in itself is the act of revising, or modifying
>>>something that already exists. Applied to history, it means that
>>>historians challenge the accepted version of the causes or consequences
>>>of historical events. As such, it is an accepted and important part of
>>>historical endeavour for it serves the dual purpose of constantly
>>>re-examining the past while also improving our understanding of it.
>>>Indeed, if one accepts that history attempts to help us better
>>>understand today by better understanding how we got here, revisionism is
>>>essential.
>>>
>>>Three examples of legitimate historical revisionism should suffice to
>>>illustrate this:
>>>
>>>1. A.J.P. Taylor has applied a very new interpretation to the events
>>>leading up to the Second World War. He minimizes Hitler's role in those
>>>events - the Anschluß with Austria, the annexation of the Sudetenland,
>>>the Danzig crisis, the role of the Allies, appeasement - compared to the
>>>standard interpretation, while portraying Nazi Germany as much less
>>>centralized and monolithic than the norm. 3
>>>
>>>2. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen has challenged virtually all the usual
>>>interpretations of the reasons for the complicity of many Germans in the
>>>perpetration of the Holocaust, and has posited that ordinary Germans
>>>willingly involved themselves because of the existence of a deep-rooted,
>>>eliminationist antisemitism in Germans of that era. He downplays, if not
>>>outright dismisses, the influence of Hitler and the Nazi Party. 4
>>
>> Goldhagen should be stripped of his academic credentials, since his
>> trash work is nothing less than baseless anti-German hate propaganda.
>
>.. .though you present nothing but assertion to support this statement.

Perhaps not, but large numbers of German historians have. Goldhagen is
simply preposterous.

>
>>
>>>
>>>3. German historian Christian Gerlach has interpreted a diary entry
>>>by Joseph Goebbels and a newly discovered one from Heinrich Himmler to
>>>mean that the date of the decision by Hitler to exterminate the Jews is
>>>in December 1941 rather than late spring or early summer as most have
>>>till now believed. 5
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>"Revisionists" depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not
>>>occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that
>>>preordained conclusion.
>>
>> That is nonsense.
>
>It's actually a pretty accurate description.
>
>For example, Fred Leuchter was paid US$30,000 to produce an "expert" report 
>for use in an Canadian court to support E.Z's defence.    He adjusted his 
>methods and data to match the conclusions he was paid to reach.
>
>> The holocaustT story is more flexible than Jell-O,
>
>It's not flexible, but a set of events taking place over a number of years 
>and over several countries and involving millions of people will of 
>necessity be varied.
>
>There's a huge amount of evidence of all kinds from all types of sources and 
>all manner of participants, witnesses, and bystanders.
>
>> and as various aspects are disproven,
>
>Very few aspects have been "disproven", in comparison to the vast amount of 
>evidence.
>
>> the story adjusts to keep the
>> basic claims intact.
>
>There isn't any evidence to show that what we understand is not 
>fundamentally correct.   This still the case after sixty years.
>
>> In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
>> and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
>> constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.
>
>And when "revisionist" material, such as the fraudulent Leuchter report, is 
>shown to be worthless,  "revisionists" simply cling tighter to it, and deny 
>the real science.
>
>You really aren't doing well.
>
>-pk
>
>>
>>
>>> Put another way, they reverse the proper
>>>methodology described above, thus turning the proper historical method
>>>of investigation and analysis on its head. That is not to say that
>>>historians never depart from a preconceived or desired result; they
>>>often do. But in adhering rigorously to the correct methodology, they
>>>accept that the result of their investigation may not be what they
>>>envisaged at the beginning. They are prepared to adapt their theories to
>>>that reality. Indeed, they are often required to revise their
>>>conclusions based on the facts. To put it tritely, "revisionists" revise
>>>the facts based on their conclusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/revisionism-isnt/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:36 EDT 2009
Article: 1991894 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <4th0p4d0oeeqdhhlqk7vf35egg8beatntv@4ax.com>: 
>
>>Generally such programs require money, and no Reichstag has ever voted
>>money for such a project. The whole "proof" for the story consists of
>>a paper blizzard of depositions by Jewish inmates (not others in the
>>same places) and bogus "confessions" extracted by torture from camp
>>employees.
>
>... and contemporary documentation by the Nazis themselves, and
>physical traces consistent with that testimony and documentation --
>not to mention not a single bit of proof that camp employees were
>tortured for their testimony...

LOL

You're full of shit.

Torture was routine, as were allied lies and distortions. The
Americans still use torture at reprehensible locations of shame such
as Guantanamo. It is a standard American pattern.

>
>>Neither McFee, or anybody else, has yet been able to explain how the
>>corpses of Hungarian Jews burned underwater at Auschwitz, since the
>>water table is less than two feet below the surface at that location.
>
>Answer:  they didn't, nor has anyone claimed they were.
>
>>Why were the burning pits not seen on allied air photographs taken
>>during the period of the alleged burning?
>
>On what specific photos do you pretend they should have been, and what
>proof do you offer for that assertion?
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:36 EDT 2009
Article: 1991895 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:59:28 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>
>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>
>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>>>> denial?
>
>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>
>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>
>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>
>>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>>>>one:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>>>denial.
>
>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>him back to Germany from whence he came.

ROTFLMAO

A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL

Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
the other way around.

>
>>De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
>>on this topic irrelevant.
>
>Since the claim was Canadian law, you are wrong, and desperately lying
>to cover that fact.
>
>>>Did you even read your source?
>>>
>>>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>>>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>>>the Lipstadt trial?
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1991896 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:17:10 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.

Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
valuable storage space in addition?

>
>Unlike your own lies, such as trying to pretend that Canadian law is
>irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian law.

Canadian law wasn't relevant to the Zündel case. He hadn't violated
any Canadian laws, so he was delivered to witch-hunters whose
ridiculous legislation he had violated.

>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1991897 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:06 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:17:10 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
> 
>
>>>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>>>>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>>>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>>Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
>>>>you already were.
>
>>>I'm not running from my lies like you, "johannes."
>
>>No, "Roger", you are standing by your lies on the assumption that
>>others are too stupid to see through them.
>
>If you are claiming that my comments about Holocaust museums is a lie,
>feel free to document, say, which regularly featured "pure Jewish fat"
>soap.

None, RECENTLY, but there have been such displays in the past and
anybody disputing the authenticity of the samples was shouted down as
an alleged "neo-Nazi", or "denier".

All aspects of the holocaust story are fanatically defended until the
stories are finally and conclusively shown to be false.

>
>We'll wait right here.
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:37 EDT 2009
Article: 1991898 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFilthy believes in collective guilt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:06 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>McVay is a sanctimonious, insincere, hypocritical jackass.
>
>Now, who was it that was recently complaining about name calling, and
>what does the above say about that person?

Well, "Roger", McVay actually IS a sanctimonious, insincere, and
hypocritical jackass. Why should I sugar-coat the truth for the likes
of him?

>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:38 EDT 2009
Article: 1991899 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: flanders fed up with jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:17:43 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>      BRUSSELS (AFP)---Jewish groups have accused a Belgian public 
>television channel of outright anti-Semitism over a series of broadcasts 
>making fun of the Jewish community.
>
>      One 1940s-style comedy sketch lampooned Jews' reactions to comments 
>made by the culture minister of Flanders, the country's Flemish-speaking 
>community.
>
>      Another programme had intended to teachers viewers of the VRT channel 
>how to make Adolf Hitler's favourite meal but was pulled before it was 
>broadcast.
>
>      Jewish groups accused VRT, the main public Flemish-language tv 
>channel, of being completely insensitive to the history of Jews in Europe.
>
>      Protests reached a new peak after a satirical programme "Man bijt 
>hond" ("Man Bites Dog") ran a 40-second piece entitled "the Jews are still 
>angry".
>
>      The sequence made fun of the reactions of the Jewish community to 
>comments made by the Flanders culture minister, Bert Anciau, who had likened 
>the victims of a recent nursery school killing in Flanders to those of the 
>Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip.

There were some pretty obvious similarities both in style and intent.
There is nothing benign about the IDF.

>
>      In a 1940s newsreel-style pastiche, a narrator listed a series of 
>institutions and objects which the Jewish community was "still not angry 
>with"; including the America-Israel Friendship League, the 'movement for 
>friendship between Jews and Israel', Rolex, Rolls Royce and the Antwerp 
>Diamond Council.
>
>      A drawing depicted a bearded Jew with his face twisted in rage 
>grasping for a huge diamond.
>
>      Then viewers saw black and white images of Orthodox Jews dancing, 
>followed by the images of a watch and a luxury car.
>
>      Terry Davids, head of Joods Actueel, a magazine for the Jewish 
>community in Antwerp, said she was shocked by what she saw. "These people 
>are completely insensitive to our ... sensibilities." she told AFP.
>
>      "It's as if they want to seek us out, to provoke us. We are shocked 
>and indignant."
>
>      VRT has pleaded "the right to satire and humour", saying other sectors 
>of society had been targetted in previous programmes.
>
>      "When it's in the right context and one sector of society gets the 
>same treatment as another there can be no taboos," said channel spokesman 
>Bjorn Verdoodt.
>
>      Among politicians, only Flemish Liberal deputy Claude Marinower has 
>spoken out against the "negationist" programme.
>
>      "Each time you think they have reached rock bottom, but each time 
>there is worse to come," he said.
>
>      The head of CCOJB, the umbrella representative group of Belgian Jewish 
>organizations, Joel Rubinfeld, denounced the standards of the Flemish 
>channel which "seems to think that multiplying anti-Semitic provocations in 
>a so-called humorous tone will help increase its audience."
>
>      Last October a young Flemish TV chef sparked protests by announcing 
>that he wanted to teach VRT viewers how to prepare what he said was Adolf 
>Hitler's favourite meal, trout cooked in butter.
>
>      VRT pulled the programme because of the protests, but there was new 
>trouble when on New Year's Day it aired part of a show by comedian Philippe 
>Geubels.
>
>      Geubels deplored the decision not to run the chef's programme and said 
>the Jewish reaction was over the top.
>
>      "What would they do if there was a major gas leak in Antwerp? Accuse 
>the town of provocation?" he asked.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:38 EDT 2009
Article: 1991900 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jew Subjectivism Vs Western Truth: BISHOP WANTS TO EXAMINE GAS  CHAMBER EVIDENCE
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:35:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"I'll Always Be 09-02-09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9BAD7BB57FB8ATheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> jewbane@snakebite.com wrote in news:e6da5259-fbe1-4d0f-bec3-358caca1b009
>> @q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> A bishop recently rehabilitated by Pope Benedict XVI said he want to
>>> "examine the evidence" of the Holocaust before possibly recanting his
>>> statement that no Jews died in Nazi gas chambers, a German
>>> newsmagazine reported.
>>
>> So what we have here is the bishop admitting that he made the statement 
>> that
>> no Jews died in nazi gas chambers without examining the evidence in the 
>> first
>> place.
>>
>> That's what you call good ole christian research
>
>Not only that, but he refuses to actually visit Auschwitz, despite offers.

Auschwitz is essentially an inferior Polish version of Disneyland. Why
would anybody waste money to go there?

>
>One wonders what else he will refuse to review.
>
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1991986 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:56 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <0jg3p4t1t9hp82166db713ev0qqd7anfg2@4ax.com>: 
>
>>On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 23:46:38 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>wrote:
>
>>>>>[...]
>
>>>>>>> There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have
>>>>>>> contributed anything significant or meaningful to our understanding
>>>>>>>  of the history.
>
>>>>>> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaustT.
>
>>>>>That of course is balderdash.  An essay I wrote a long time ago rebuts
>>>>>this foolishness.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On its basic level, revisionism is nothing more than than the advocacy
>>>>>of revision, which in itself is the act of revising, or modifying
>>>>>something that already exists. Applied to history, it means that
>>>>>historians challenge the accepted version of the causes or consequences
>>>>>of historical events. As such, it is an accepted and important part of
>>>>>historical endeavour for it serves the dual purpose of constantly
>>>>>re-examining the past while also improving our understanding of it.
>>>>>Indeed, if one accepts that history attempts to help us better
>>>>>understand today by better understanding how we got here, revisionism is
>>>>>essential.
>>>>>
>>>>>Three examples of legitimate historical revisionism should suffice to
>>>>>illustrate this:
>>>>>
>>>>>1. A.J.P. Taylor has applied a very new interpretation to the events
>>>>>leading up to the Second World War. He minimizes Hitler's role in those
>>>>>events - the Anschluß with Austria, the annexation of the Sudetenland,
>>>>>the Danzig crisis, the role of the Allies, appeasement - compared to the
>>>>>standard interpretation, while portraying Nazi Germany as much less
>>>>>centralized and monolithic than the norm. 3
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen has challenged virtually all the usual
>>>>>interpretations of the reasons for the complicity of many Germans in the
>>>>>perpetration of the Holocaust, and has posited that ordinary Germans
>>>>>willingly involved themselves because of the existence of a deep-rooted,
>>>>>eliminationist antisemitism in Germans of that era. He downplays, if not
>>>>>outright dismisses, the influence of Hitler and the Nazi Party. 4
>
>>>> Goldhagen should be stripped of his academic credentials, since his
>>>> trash work is nothing less than baseless anti-German hate propaganda.
>
>>>.. .though you present nothing but assertion to support this statement.
>
>>Perhaps not, but large numbers of German historians have. Goldhagen is
>>simply preposterous.
>
>And yet you cannot name even 6 professional German historians who
>agree...

Virtually no German historians agree with the preposterous notions of
Goldhagen. It is just simple-minded anti-German hate propaganda.

>
>>>>>3. German historian Christian Gerlach has interpreted a diary entry
>>>>>by Joseph Goebbels and a newly discovered one from Heinrich Himmler to
>>>>>mean that the date of the decision by Hitler to exterminate the Jews is
>>>>>in December 1941 rather than late spring or early summer as most have
>>>>>till now believed. 5
>>>>>
>>>>>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>>"Revisionists" depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not
>>>>>occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that
>>>>>preordained conclusion.
>
>>>> That is nonsense.
>
>>>It's actually a pretty accurate description.
>>>
>>>For example, Fred Leuchter was paid US$30,000 to produce an "expert" report 
>>>for use in an Canadian court to support E.Z's defence.    He adjusted his 
>>>methods and data to match the conclusions he was paid to reach.
>
>>>> The holocaustT story is more flexible than Jell-O,
>
>>>It's not flexible, but a set of events taking place over a number of years 
>>>and over several countries and involving millions of people will of 
>>>necessity be varied.
>>>
>>>There's a huge amount of evidence of all kinds from all types of sources and 
>>>all manner of participants, witnesses, and bystanders.
>
>>>> and as various aspects are disproven,
>
>>>Very few aspects have been "disproven", in comparison to the vast amount of 
>>>evidence.
>
>>>> the story adjusts to keep the
>>>> basic claims intact.
>
>>>There isn't any evidence to show that what we understand is not 
>>>fundamentally correct.   This still the case after sixty years.
>
>>>> In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
>>>> and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
>>>> constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.
>
>>>And when "revisionist" material, such as the fraudulent Leuchter report, is 
>>>shown to be worthless,  "revisionists" simply cling tighter to it, and deny 
>>>the real science.
>>>
>>>You really aren't doing well.
>
>>>>> Put another way, they reverse the proper
>>>>>methodology described above, thus turning the proper historical method
>>>>>of investigation and analysis on its head. That is not to say that
>>>>>historians never depart from a preconceived or desired result; they
>>>>>often do. But in adhering rigorously to the correct methodology, they
>>>>>accept that the result of their investigation may not be what they
>>>>>envisaged at the beginning. They are prepared to adapt their theories to
>>>>>that reality. Indeed, they are often required to revise their
>>>>>conclusions based on the facts. To put it tritely, "revisionists" revise
>>>>>the facts based on their conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/revisionism-isnt/ 
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1991987 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:55 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>>>>>> denial?
>
>>>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>
>>>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>
>>>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>>>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>>>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>>>>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>>>>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>
>>>>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>>>>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>>>>>>one:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>>>>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>>>>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>>>>>denial.
>
>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>
>>ROTFLMAO
>>
>>A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>>
>>Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>>the other way around.
>
>Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees.  Somehow I think
>they were in a better position to know.

CSIS does what it is told by politicians. Agencies of that sort
specialize in political truths, not objective truths.

>
>>>>De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
>>>>on this topic irrelevant.
>
>>>Since the claim was Canadian law, you are wrong, and desperately lying
>>>to cover that fact.
>
>>>>>Did you even read your source?
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>>>>>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>>>>>the Lipstadt trial?
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:39 EDT 2009
Article: 1991988 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:55 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <92h3p4l8hjmjk889nvo3mtjl9mlq7nk07d@4ax.com>: 
>
>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?

I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
what it is.

>
>>>Unlike your own lies, such as trying to pretend that Canadian law is
>>>irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian law.
>
>>Canadian law wasn't relevant to the Zündel case. He hadn't violated
>>any Canadian laws, so he was delivered to witch-hunters whose
>>ridiculous legislation he had violated.
>
>Sure, he had.  Canadian immigration and residency laws.
>
>But do keep demonstrating your fundamental dishonesty.
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:40 EDT 2009
Article: 1991990 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:56 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:06 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>> 
>
>>>>>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>>>>>>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>>>>>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>>>>Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
>>>>>>you already were.
>
>>>>>I'm not running from my lies like you, "johannes."
>
>>>>No, "Roger", you are standing by your lies on the assumption that
>>>>others are too stupid to see through them.
>
>>>If you are claiming that my comments about Holocaust museums is a lie,
>>>feel free to document, say, which regularly featured "pure Jewish fat"
>>>soap.
>
>>None, RECENTLY, but there have been such displays in the past and
>>anybody disputing the authenticity of the samples was shouted down as
>>an alleged "neo-Nazi", or "denier".
>
>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>All aspects of the holocaust story are fanatically defended until the
>>stories are finally and conclusively shown to be false.
>
>Of course, the falsity here is you claiming the above.
>
>>>We'll wait right here.
>
>Looks like it'll be a long wait.
>
>
>
You're responses are becoming increasingly lame, not to mention
nonsensical.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:40 EDT 2009
Article: 1992232 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:50:42 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:55 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>>>>>>>> denial?
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>>>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>>>>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>
>>>>>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>>>>>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>>>>>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>>>>>>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>>>>>>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>
>>>>>>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>>>>>>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>>>>>>>>one:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>>>>>>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>>>>>>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>>>>>>>denial.
>
>>>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>>>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>
>>>>ROTFLMAO
>>>>
>>>>A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>>>>
>>>>Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>>>>the other way around.
>
>>>Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees.  Somehow I think
>>>they were in a better position to know.
>
>>CSIS does what it is told by politicians. Agencies of that sort
>>specialize in political truths, not objective truths.
>
>So, you can demonstrate that this finding was not objective?

The idea that Zündel posed a "threat" to Canada is so patently
ridiculous that it hardly requires any further commentary.

>
>We'll wait right here for your evidence of this....
>
>>>>>>De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
>>>>>>on this topic irrelevant.
>
>>>>>Since the claim was Canadian law, you are wrong, and desperately lying
>>>>>to cover that fact.
>
>>>>>>>Did you even read your source?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>>>>>>>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>>>>>>>the Lipstadt trial?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:40 EDT 2009
Article: 1992233 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:45:59 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:crg3p4570r273icdum1n080lo4gpirlqad@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>>
>>>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>         in message :
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:59:28 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>>>>>> denial?
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>>>
>>>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>>>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>>>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here. 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for 
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>>>
>>>>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't 
>>>>>>possibly
>>>>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's 
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>one:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>>>
>>>>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>>>>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>>>>>denial.
>>>
>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>>>
>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>>
>> ROTFLMAO
>>
>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>
>He was a threat to Jews.

That would definitely appear to be the case. The holocaust is far too
valuable a propaganda vehicle to allow it to be threatened by a lone
dissident. It is so much easier just to silence the dissident. It is
an old technique.

>
>
>
>>
>> Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>> the other way around.
>>
>>>
>>>>De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
>>>>on this topic irrelevant.
>>>
>>>Since the claim was Canadian law, you are wrong, and desperately lying
>>>to cover that fact.
>>>
>>>>>Did you even read your source?
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>>>>>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>>>>>the Lipstadt trial?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:41 EDT 2009
Article: 1992235 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:55 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>
>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>what it is.
>
>No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.

LOL

What have you been smoking? The "depths of your hate" line is actually
funny. Whom do I supposedly hate? 

>
>And continue to run from even the attempt to factually support that
>dishonest assertion.
>
>>>>>Unlike your own lies, such as trying to pretend that Canadian law is
>>>>>irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian law.
>
>>>>Canadian law wasn't relevant to the Zündel case. He hadn't violated
>>>>any Canadian laws, so he was delivered to witch-hunters whose
>>>>ridiculous legislation he had violated.
>
>>>Sure, he had.  Canadian immigration and residency laws.
>>>
>>>But do keep demonstrating your fundamental dishonesty.
>
>So, you concede that zundel violate those laws?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:41 EDT 2009
Article: 1992236 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:53:25 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:56 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>> 
>
>>>>>>>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>>>>>>>>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>>>>>>>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>>>>>>Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
>>>>>>>>you already were.
>
>>>>>>>I'm not running from my lies like you, "johannes."
>
>>>>>>No, "Roger", you are standing by your lies on the assumption that
>>>>>>others are too stupid to see through them.
>
>>>>>If you are claiming that my comments about Holocaust museums is a lie,
>>>>>feel free to document, say, which regularly featured "pure Jewish fat"
>>>>>soap.
>
>>>>None, RECENTLY, but there have been such displays in the past and
>>>>anybody disputing the authenticity of the samples was shouted down as
>>>>an alleged "neo-Nazi", or "denier".
>
>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>"johannes" runs
>
>>>>All aspects of the holocaust story are fanatically defended until the
>>>>stories are finally and conclusively shown to be false.
>
>>>Of course, the falsity here is you claiming the above.
>
>>>>>We'll wait right here.
>
>>>Looks like it'll be a long wait.
>
>>You're responses are becoming increasingly lame, not to mention
>>nonsensical.
>
>Just because you do not understand the concept of "supporting one's
>assertions with evidence" does not make it nonsensical.

You can start supporting your baseless assertions any time. I'm not
putting up any impediments to your oratorical bombast.

>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:41 EDT 2009
Article: 1992238 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFilthy believes in collective guilt
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:21:49 -0500
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:21:13 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 11, 12:12 pm, RJ11  wrote:
>> In article ,
>> "Ben Cramer", posting as Karl < K...@home.net > wrote:
>>
>> > Stop your whining, Roger.
>>
>>    Stop your trolling,  doper.  It's pathetic.  A 60
>> year old man behaving like a semi-retarded 10 year old.
>>
>> RJ.
>
>Do you support McVey when he says that the 'Germans deserved/should
>have expected what they got'.  Please note that if you do, then you
>are saying it's OK to commit horrible atrocities.

For this bunch, horrible atrocities are perfectly OK provided that the
victims are not Jews.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:42 EDT 2009
Article: 1992417 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:37:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Rudolf VRBA also admitted he was not there but only repeats what he did hear 
>from others. why would he then would be a eye witness.

Hearsay "evidence" was apparently quite acceptable at the Nuremberg
Kangaroo courts.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:bb17p41ee3ls2khgebjabb5lmonaa2nf32@4ax.com...
>>
>> Holocaust heavyweight Rudolf Vrba, under cross-examination in a
>> Canadian courtroom, states under oath that 150,000 French Jews were
>> gassed at Auschwitz, in spite of the fact that the entire number of
>> Jews deported from France were only 75,721. Vrba claims he arrived at
>> his count "scientifically" by having listened to the language spoken
>> by the inmates at Auschwitz and examining their luggage (!). The
>> author of "I Cannot Forgive" next confessed that his book was "an
>> artistic picture ... not a document for a court," in spite of the fact
>> that Vrba's testimony was crucial to both the War Refugee Board and
>> the Auschwitz Trials in West Germany. Vrba further admitted that his
>> written and pictorial descriptions of Auschwitz crematoria were a
>> result of guessing, based on "what I heard it might look like." Oops!
>>
>> When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth,
>> he will either quit being mistaken or cease being honest.
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/   http:// www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/
>>
>> http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>>
>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:42 EDT 2009
Article: 1992419 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:05r0p4do6n521hv7k4tebg1fkmq6ickrmj@4ax.com...
>
>>>>Generally such programs require money, and no Reichstag has ever voted
>>>>money for such a project. The whole "proof" for the story consists of
>>>>a paper blizzard of depositions by Jewish inmates (not others in the
>>>>same places) and bogus "confessions" extracted by torture from camp
>>>>employees.
>
>>> ... and contemporary documentation by the Nazis themselves, and
>>> physical traces consistent with that testimony and documentation --
>>> not to mention not a single bit of proof that camp employees were
>>> tortured for their testimony...
>
>>>>Neither McFee, or anybody else, has yet been able to explain how the
>>>>corpses of Hungarian Jews burned underwater at Auschwitz, since the
>>>>water table is less than two feet below the surface at that location.
>
>>> Answer:  they didn't, nor has anyone claimed they were.
>
>>>>Why were the burning pits not seen on allied air photographs taken
>>>>during the period of the alleged burning?
>
>>> On what specific photos do you pretend they should have been, and what
>>> proof do you offer for that assertion?
>
>>Surely you should know, Roger. You're the expert.
>
>No, I'm no expert.
>
>But I *am* familiar enough with the evidence to state that there is no
>reason to believe that any allied air photographs at all were taken
>during the period of the burning.
>
>Feel free to demonstrate that I am wrong on this.

American photographs of the period would have resolved a dime on the
ground, and was the reason that one of the German "trials" against
camp personnel failed. Dozens of so-called "eye witnesses" came away
with egg on their faces.

>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:43 EDT 2009
Article: 1992422 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:51:23 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:50:42 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>>>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>>>>>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>>>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>
>>>>>>ROTFLMAO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>>>>>>the other way around.
>
>>>>>Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees.  Somehow I think
>>>>>they were in a better position to know.
>
>>>>CSIS does what it is told by politicians. Agencies of that sort
>>>>specialize in political truths, not objective truths.
>
>>>So, you can demonstrate that this finding was not objective?
>
>>The idea that Zündel posed a "threat" to Canada is so patently
>>ridiculous that it hardly requires any further commentary.
>
>Ah, so you cannot so demonstrate.

What is there to demonstrate? You may be a drooling imbecile, but you
don't represent any more of a threat to Canada than did Zündel.

>
>Why do you lie about it, then?
>
>>>We'll wait right here for your evidence of this....
>
>>>>>>>>De facto, the actions of the Canadian authorities made Canadian laws
>>>>>>>>on this topic irrelevant.
>
>>>>>>>Since the claim was Canadian law, you are wrong, and desperately lying
>>>>>>>to cover that fact.
>
>>>>>>>>>Did you even read your source?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Meanwhile when are you going to stop running from your lies about the
>>>>>>>>>World Almanac, and hoess, and leuchter, and your various lies about
>>>>>>>>>the Lipstadt trial?
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:43 EDT 2009
Article: 1992424 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:sf94p4h4aa47p8bfub3ce2s4rr5g3nbs3i@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>>>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>
>>>>ROTFLMAO
>>>>
>>>>A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>>>>
>>>>Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>>>>the other way around.
>
>>> Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees.
>
>>Really? You have proof to support your ridiculous claim?
>
>Yes, I do:  the fact that he was deported for that reason.

To your simple mind, Roger, does that mean that all the people
convicted of witch-craft in 1690 actually WERE witches just because
the authorities of the day said so?

The Zündel episode was clearly political, and had nothing to do with
Canada's security or lack of it.

>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:43 EDT 2009
Article: 1992425 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:71m4p45dsrvrde4d0lbk3mp0tuau2v40g2@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and 
>>>>>>>>>>hypocritically
>>>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>>>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>
>>>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>>>what it is.
>
>>> No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.
>
>>Can't you read, Roger?
>
>Sure I can. That's how I know that "johannes" cannot cite a single lie
>I have posted.

Virtually everything you have ever posted here comes under the heading
of lies, disortions, or omissions, "Roger".

>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:43 EDT 2009
Article: 1992426 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:59:13 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>>>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>
>>>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>>>what it is.
>
>>>No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.
>
>>LOL
>>
>>What have you been smoking? The "depths of your hate" line is actually
>>funny. Whom do I supposedly hate? 
>
>Well, me, for example

You are no threat to me Roger. You are just a minor amusement if I
have nothing more pressing to do. If anything, I find you pathetic,
but I certainly don't hate you. You just don't have that level of
importance.




>-- why else would you be whining about lies you
>cannot document?
>
>>>And continue to run from even the attempt to factually support that
>>>dishonest assertion.
>
>>>>>>>Unlike your own lies, such as trying to pretend that Canadian law is
>>>>>>>irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian law.
>
>>>>>>Canadian law wasn't relevant to the Zündel case. He hadn't violated
>>>>>>any Canadian laws, so he was delivered to witch-hunters whose
>>>>>>ridiculous legislation he had violated.
>
>>>>>Sure, he had.  Canadian immigration and residency laws.
>>>>>
>>>>>But do keep demonstrating your fundamental dishonesty.
>
>>>So, you concede that zundel violate those laws?
>
>Can we assume your assent, then?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:44 EDT 2009
Article: 1992427 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:59:13 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:53:25 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>> 
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature of many if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>not most Holocaust museums. 
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>>>>>>>>Give it up Roger, you are just making yourself more ridiculous than
>>>>>>>>>>you already were.
>
>>>>>>>>>I'm not running from my lies like you, "johannes."
>
>>>>>>>>No, "Roger", you are standing by your lies on the assumption that
>>>>>>>>others are too stupid to see through them.
>
>>>>>>>If you are claiming that my comments about Holocaust museums is a lie,
>>>>>>>feel free to document, say, which regularly featured "pure Jewish fat"
>>>>>>>soap.
>
>>>>>>None, RECENTLY, but there have been such displays in the past and
>>>>>>anybody disputing the authenticity of the samples was shouted down as
>>>>>>an alleged "neo-Nazi", or "denier".
>
>>>>>Your proof of this is ... ?
>
>>>"johannes" runs
>
>and runs ...
>
>>>>>>All aspects of the holocaust story are fanatically defended until the
>>>>>>stories are finally and conclusively shown to be false.
>
>>>>>Of course, the falsity here is you claiming the above.
>
>>>>>>>We'll wait right here.
>
>>>>>Looks like it'll be a long wait.
>
>>>>You're responses are becoming increasingly lame, not to mention
>>>>nonsensical.
>
>>>Just because you do not understand the concept of "supporting one's
>>>assertions with evidence" does not make it nonsensical.
>
>>You can start supporting your baseless assertions any time. I'm not
>>putting up any impediments to your oratorical bombast.
>
>As soon as you document any that I have not, I will demonstrate that
>you are lying.

You won't be able to demonstrate that because I don't write lies.

>
>Meanwhile, we're still waiting for you to support your lies -- in this
>thread, specifically the lie that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular
>feature of any Holocaust museums, and that anybody disputing the
>authenticity of the samples was shouted down as an alleged "neo-Nazi",
>or "denier."
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:44 EDT 2009
Article: 1992432 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fabulous Nazi song, anyone know what they're singing?
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:45:57 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"Dan"  wrote in message 
>news:z0Mkl.16833$2k1.1@newsfe01.iad...
>> Neil Harrington wrote:
>>> Bombardier wrote:
>>>> On Feb 11, 3:49?pm, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enp-CjrWqDw&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
>>>>>
>>>>> I sure like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose there's more passion due to not knowing what they're
>>>>> saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone fails to know that the Nazi party was about communion,
>>>>> fellowship, unity amongst a people just like an American Indian tribe
>>>>> performed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this song reflects that.
>>>>>
>>>>> But regarding the race theories that Hitler supported, I now say they
>>>>> are not factual, due to Bruce Lee's beautiful kids, half Chinese half
>>>>> American.
>>>> All their singing didn't keep us from turmning all of Germany into a
>>>> flaming burning mass of wreckage,
>>>
>>> That's true. Of course the Germans, heavily outnumbered, still managed to 
>>> turn a lot of our B-17s and B-24s into flaming burning masses of wreckage 
>>> too.
>>>
>>> But we did beat them, and thereby made all of eastern Europe safe for 
>>> Stalin and communism for a generation or two, with all the vast amount of 
>>> tyranny, brutality, rape, imprisonment, torture and murder that that 
>>> implies.
>>>
>>>> Arthur Kramer
>>>> 344th Bomb Group 494th Bomb Squadron
>>>> England France Belgium Holland Italy Germany
>>>> www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>>
>>> Impressive airplane, that B-26. Too bad we weren't using 'em against the 
>>> U.S.S.R. instead of Germany. As Patton said, "We are destroying the 
>>> finest race in Europe."


>>   Nothing wrong with taking out Germany since they started the war.

Sorry for interjecting here Karl. It wasn't Germany that was destroyed
by WW1 and WW2. Germany started the twentieth century as the principal
European power and ended the twentieth century as the principal
European power. By contrast, Britain in 1900 was the greatest power on
earth and in 2009 is an insignificant island off the coast of France.
Churchill presided over the destruction of the British Empire and it
was his love for war and conflict that was largely responsible for
both WW1 and WW2. History will eventually not be very kind to
Churchill.

>
>
>Wrong. The Jews started the war.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:44 EDT 2009
Article: 1992454 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:08:02 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>This is exactly what did happen and the Germans were most likely never 
>allowed to gross examine the so called witnesses.

The defence was crippled in other ways also. They were not permitted
to see the allied documents that formed the basis of many of the
accusations. That is presumably the reason that the allies could
afford to float so many blatantly obvious forgeries, because they knew
that they would never be challenged.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:o678p4p2sp51v6nul7jl2hpqkc1rifs0c9@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:37:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Rudolf VRBA also admitted he was not there but only repeats what he did 
>>>hear
>>>from others. why would he then would be a eye witness.
>>
>> Hearsay "evidence" was apparently quite acceptable at the Nuremberg
>> Kangaroo courts.
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>>>news:bb17p41ee3ls2khgebjabb5lmonaa2nf32@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Holocaust heavyweight Rudolf Vrba, under cross-examination in a
>>>> Canadian courtroom, states under oath that 150,000 French Jews were
>>>> gassed at Auschwitz, in spite of the fact that the entire number of
>>>> Jews deported from France were only 75,721. Vrba claims he arrived at
>>>> his count "scientifically" by having listened to the language spoken
>>>> by the inmates at Auschwitz and examining their luggage (!). The
>>>> author of "I Cannot Forgive" next confessed that his book was "an
>>>> artistic picture ... not a document for a court," in spite of the fact
>>>> that Vrba's testimony was crucial to both the War Refugee Board and
>>>> the Auschwitz Trials in West Germany. Vrba further admitted that his
>>>> written and pictorial descriptions of Auschwitz crematoria were a
>>>> result of guessing, based on "what I heard it might look like." Oops!
>>>>
>>>> When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth,
>>>> he will either quit being mistaken or cease being honest.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ihr.org/   http:// www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.natvan.com   http://www.nsm88.org
>>>>
>>>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:45 EDT 2009
Article: 1992455 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Military Men are hard to understand sometimes
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:41:15 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 12, 3:53 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 5:25 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > My Uncle on my mother's sister's grandmother's side was drafted into
>> > the Waffen SS in Hungary, because he was an ethnic German.  He's
>> > passed on now btw.
>> > Anyway, at work, a guy, a Canadian who was in our Airborne (the
>> > regiment that got fucked over by the weak coward of a Prime Minister
>> > Cretin); he always tried to find out the battles that my uncle had
>> > been in.  He never showed disrespect; he understood that my uncle was
>> > an MG42 operator on the Soviet Front and respected that.  I also have
>> > a cousin in the US (Lt. Col. Retired) who was a 2nd Lt. in an M1 tank
>> > in the first Gulf War who also respected my Uncle.  He asked him many
>> > questions concerning weapons of the Waffen SS etc.  So it is very
>> > surprising when a non-combatant jerk like Bluto spreads his wings and
>> > condemns the Waffen SS as being chumps.
>> > I often wonder how many gallons of cum that Bluto can drink without
>> > choking on his white milk.
>> > Bluto:  how many gallons of cum can you and McShithead drink in an
>> > evening of rolling around with your shitty dicks in your hands?
>>
>> Did you say "non-combatant"? I volunteered for the U.S. Navy during
>> the Vietnam War.
>> I served for 2 years as an enlisted man, then, on the recommendation
>> of my Commanding Officer, went to
>> OCS and got commissioned as an Ensign. I was an unrestricted line
>> officer, jackass, which means I was being trained for command at sea
>> on a warship. I did 4 years at sea on two different warships.
>>
>> Tell us all about YOUR miltary service.
>> You really stuck your foot in your mouth this time.
>>
>
>Sorry Joe.  I don't have foot in mouth disease.  I did no military
>service whatsoever as I didn't want to get my hair cut.
>I'm defending my people against your sick prejudices you have against
>other forces who your country fought with.
>You did no combat duty, so don't insult those who have.
>
>> I said the Waffen SS were murdering savages, not chumps. They murdered
>> American POWS at a place called Malmedy during WWII, American POWS
>> that had peacefully surrendered.
>> Your fucking Nazis are the worst filth that ever polluted the planet.
>> Not only am I Jewish, I'm also of Russian descent. I have inside of me
>> the two groups that hate Nazis the most.
>
>I don't hate Jews.  I don't hate Russians.  The Waffen SS were not
>murdering savages.  They were highly trained soldiers who happened to
>kick ass hard.  That is why they have been maliciously lied about.
>Your forces murdered 100's of thousands of civilians Joe.  But that's
>OK isn't it.  As long as it's your side that does the killing.
>
>>
>> When I found out the Soviets were treating your fucking Nazi pigs
>> brutally, I smiled broadly and applauded.
>
>That's because you have a disease of some type.
>
>> Curse you and every other Nazi lover.
>
>I don't love Nazis; never said I did.
>
>> Remember this:The Russians have never forgiven the Nazis for what they
>> did to the USSR.
>
>I guess you'll have to live with that.
>
>> If Russia ever gains military power again, and she is slowly doing
>> just that, her first target will be the neo-Nazis within her borders.
>> Number two target, I hope and pray, will be Germany itself, which
>> still has former SS men working in government and industry there. If
>> the Germans are afriad to root them out, the Russians will be happy to
>> do the job.
>
>Wishful thinking. Sorry I can't be of more assistance.

Poor Joe sounds as if he has some sort of drug problem that produces
hallucinations. WW2 ended 64 years ago. To be in the Waffen SS one
would have to be at least 16 years of age, so these former SS men
allegedly working in German government and industry would have to be a
minimum of 80 years of age, well past German mandatory retirement
regulations.

Like most holocaustorians, Joe is totally full of shit on this and
practically every other topic about which he likes to babble.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:45 EDT 2009
Article: 1992973 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:05:15 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>>>>>>>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>>>>>>>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>>>>>>>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>>>>>>>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>>>>>>>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>
>>>>>>>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>>>>>>>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>
>>>>>>ROTFLMAO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Various Canadian bimbos were obviously a threat to Zündel, but hardly
>>>>>>the other way around.
>
>>>>> Canadian Security Intelligence Service disagrees.
>
>>>>Really? You have proof to support your ridiculous claim?
>
>>>Yes, I do:  the fact that he was deported for that reason.
>
>>To your simple mind, Roger, does that mean that all the people
>>convicted of witch-craft in 1690 actually WERE witches just because
>>the authorities of the day said so?
>
>I was asked for proof that CSIS disagrees with your fantasy, so your
>question is irrelevant.
>
>>The Zündel episode was clearly political, and had nothing to do with
>>Canada's security or lack of it.
>
>That security is a political matter, yes -- and you have yet to even
>attempt to show why zundel wasn't a threat.

He doesn't have to. You get to show how a single individual with few
resources is a "threat" to a state with 35 million inhabitants, tens
of thousands of armed police officers and a professional army equipped
with modern military weapons. 

The whole concept of Zündel as a threat to Canada would be funny if it
were not so tainted with injustice.

>
>Let's start which his support of those nice folks trying to take over
>Dominica?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:45 EDT 2009
Article: 1992974 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:52:58 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Feb 12, 1:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>
>> >The Canadian security services deal with Canadian security problems.
>>
>> And they do as they are ordered by the Jew controlled Government.
>
>You have no idea about democracy do you.
>Or the make up of the Canadian government
>You are just another sadsack example of a neonazi

Harper does pander to Israel to garner votes for his right-wing
political party.


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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1992976

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:20:44 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Are you talking about the French or are you talking about the French 
>Canadians.

I don't believe that "I'll always be" knows what the fuck he is
talking about on any topic.

>kk
>
>"I'll Always Be 12-02-09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9BB07AB54291CTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:5b%kl.11298$Db2.9643
>> @edtnps83:
>>
>>> Sound interesting do you really believe Jews have no influence over the
>>> Canadian government.
>>
>>
>> Sounds interesting. Do you really think the french have no influence over
>> the Canadian government?
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "george"  wrote in message
>>> news:62b9779b-17da-48ad-b147-38e381901ff6
>> @o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 12, 1:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> >The Canadian security services deal with Canadian security problems.
>>>>
>>>> And they do as they are ordered by the Jew controlled Government.
>>>
>>> You have no idea about democracy do you.
>>> Or the make up of the Canadian government
>>> You are just another sadsack example of a neonazi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:46 EDT 2009
Article: 1992977 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:21:57 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"george"  wrote in message 
>news:62b9779b-17da-48ad-b147-38e381901ff6@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 12, 1:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>
>>> >The Canadian security services deal with Canadian security problems.
>>>
>>> And they do as they are ordered by the Jew controlled Government.
>
>>You have no idea about democracy do you.
>
>A very good understanding.
>
>>Or the make up of the Canadian government
>
>You're wrong again. I have a very good understanding of the amount of Jewish 
>influence there is on the Canadian Government.

There is a lot of influence on the Harperites.

>
>>You are just another sadsack example of a neonazi
>
>Wrong again.
>
>Three statements from you and three wrong. Typical. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:46 EDT 2009
Article: 1992978 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:51:35 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Karl"  wrote in message 
>news:gn2te2$ira$1@news.tornevall.net...
>>
>> "george"  wrote in message 
>> news:38479f85-cc6d-4f99-b008-13970076e374@w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 13, 12:21 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>>> "george"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:62b9779b-17da-48ad-b147-38e381901ff6@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 12, 1:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>>>
>>> >> >The Canadian security services deal with Canadian security problems.
>>>
>>> >> And they do as they are ordered by the Jew controlled Government.
>>> >You have no idea about democracy do you.
>>>
>>> A very good understanding.
>>>
>>>> >Or the make up of the Canadian government
>>>>
>>>> You're wrong again. I have a very good understanding of the amount of 
>>>> Jewish
>>>> influence there is on the Canadian Government.
>>>>
>>>> >You are just another sadsack example of a neonazi
>>>>
>>>> Wrong again.
>>>>
>>>> Three statements from you and three wrong. Typical.
>>
>>>And you're into denial
>>
>> No I am not. The Jew Lobby has a strangle hold on Canadian Government.
>
>If it's as bad there as the stranglehold they have on the U.S. government, 
>that is very bad indeed.

Harper tended to be the lap dog of the Bush administration, so he took
a very pro-Israel stance because that is what Washington was doing.
The Conservative Party of Canada has always had a very strong
pro-Washington leaning, and since Washington leans towards Israel, so
do they.


>
>Everyone should read ex-Congressman Paul Findley's book, "They Dare to Speak 
>Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby." Also (now out of 
>print, unfortunately) Findley's "Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts 
>About the U.S.-Israel Relationship." Another must-read is "The Israel Lobby 
>and U.S. Foreign Policy" by professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. 
>These books are all available on Amazon, new and/or used.
>
>The Jewish grip on our government and media is what that keeps the parasite 
>state of Israel feeding on us, and the Holocaust fable is arguably the most 
>important part of that process. It has no other raison d'etre, other than 
>the Holocaust Industry itself of course. "There's no business like Shoah 
>business."
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:47 EDT 2009
Article: 1992981 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:44:15 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Feb 13, 5:31 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>
>> No I am not. The Jew Lobby has a strangle hold on Canadian Government.
>>
>> It is you who is incapable of seeing the obvious and who is in denial.
>
>Ever heard the term "one is to many" ?
>Yup. The Canadians are just as xenophobic as any-one else..

Canadians, as a group, are nowhere near as xenophobic as Americans,
the land of fear and paranoia.

>and you're still in denial


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:47 EDT 2009
Article: 1992983 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:18:48 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:45:59 +1000, in
>, "Karl"  wrote:
>
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:crg3p4570r273icdum1n080lo4gpirlqad@4ax.com...
>> > On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>> >
>> >>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>> >>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>> >>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>> >>         in message :
>> >>
>> >>>On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:59:28 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>> >>>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>> >>>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>> >>>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>> >>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>> >>>>>>>>> denial?
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>> >>>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>> >>
>> >>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>> >>>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>> >>
>> >>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>> >>>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>> >>>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here. 
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for 
>> >>>>>> something
>> >>>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>> >>
>> >>>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't 
>> >>>>>possibly
>> >>>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's 
>> >>>>>just
>> >>>>>one:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>> >>
>> >>>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>> >>>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>> >>>>denial.
>> >>
>> >>>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>> >>>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>> >>>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>> >>>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>> >>>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>> >>>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>> >>
>> >>No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>> >>him back to Germany from whence he came.
>> >
>> > ROTFLMAO
>> >
>> > A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>> 
>> He was a threat to Jews.
>
>He was a threat to Canada, Ben.

Bullshit.

By what convoluted reasoning was the guy a threat to Canada? I live
here, and nobody I know felt threatened by Zündel, provided they even
knew his name.

This was even more ridiculous than the more recent mass arrest of
teeny-boppers from Mississauga over an alleged terrorist plot. That
case is rapidly unravelling, given that it was just political
propaganda hype from the outset.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:47 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:16:17 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:14:17 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:11:05 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>> 
>> >In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>> >   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>> >      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>> >         in message : 
>> >
>> >>On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:59:28 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>> >>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>> >
>> >>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>> >
>> >>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>> >>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>> >>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>> >>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>> >>>>>>>> denial?
>> >
>> >>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>> >>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>> >
>> >>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>> >>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>> >
>> >>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>> >>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>> >>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>> >>>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>> >>>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>> >
>> >>>>I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>> >>>>be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>> >>>>one:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>> >
>> >>>And that article makes it clear that he was held on a security
>> >>>certificate and not for violating a non-existent law against Holocaust
>> >>>denial.
>> >
>> >>Canadian authorities used the old American technique in this case.
>> >>Whereas torture is technically illegal within the USA, they simply
>> >>turn the person over to a jurisdiction where torture is not a concern.
>> >>In the case of Zündel, the Canadian authorities, under local Jewish
>> >>pressure, turned him over to an authority where questioning the
>> >>holocaust story is indeed a crime.
>> >
>> >No, they found him to be a threat to the security of Canada, and sent
>> >him back to Germany from whence he came.
>> 
>> ROTFLMAO
>> 
>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.  LOL
>
>The Court found that he was.

Courts are an Alice-in-wonderland turf where almost anything can
happen and does. You have once again dodged the question. In what
weird convoluted way was this poor guy a threat to a country with 35
million inhabitants that has thousands of armed police officers at its
disposal? Canadian authorities have in the past put down quite
substantial rebellions, so I find it unlikely in the extreme that this
one man with few resources was a threat to Canada except as a
political convenience of some lobby groups.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:48 EDT 2009
Article: 1992985 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:05:36 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:59:10 -0500, in
><8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>> > On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in 
>> >>> , "Neil Harrington" 
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> >>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>> >>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come,
>> >>>>> an Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in 
>> >>>>> message <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>> >>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>> >>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>> >>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>> >>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>> >>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>> >>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>> >>>> denial?
>> >>>
>> >>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>> >>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>> >>
>> >> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>> >> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>> >
>> > Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>> > questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>> > Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>> > obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>> > that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>> 
>> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>> be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>> one:
>> 
>> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>I am very familiar with the Zündel story, believe me.  That clipping
>does not say anything about Zündel being thrown in prison for denying
>or questioning the Holocaust, which is my point.

You don't have a point, Gordie, other than possibly the top of your
head. Nobody would have been bothering Zündel in the first place
except for his views about a certain period in history. The various
legal artifices used to get him to Germany were simply means to an
end, namely to delivery the fellow to the faux-democracy known as
Germany to be subjected to a modern-day witch trial.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:48 EDT 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:08:57 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:77a6p4phbesfbllc93mkurhk6e8u0jq9mr@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>>>I don't lie about the so-called holocaust. I really don't have that
>>>>>>>>much interest in it. I just object to destructive lies designed to
>>>>>>>>make German people hate themselves so that they can be more easily
>>>>>>>>exploited.
>
>>>>>>>That statement itself is a lie, given that above you lie that "much of
>>>>>>>the holocaust has been shown to have no basis."
>
>>>>>>You're babbling incoherently, Roger.
>
>>>>> No, I'm clearly pointing out your fundamental dishonesty
>
>>>>No you're not. You're babbling incoherently and whining.
>
>>> It's English, that's probably what is confusing you.
>
>>Obviously you have little or no understanding of English.
>>
>>You are still babbling incoherently and whining.
>
>And yet, no one else has trouble understanding my having pointed out
>"johannes" dishonesty.

The person being dishonest is "Roger".

>
>
>Funny, that.
>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:49 EDT 2009
Article: 1992988 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:          <3bg8p4l93m8j5ah9jf4hpec392j3r6vh7q@4ax.com> <6df9p41ius4gucusral9c70p6qoojok9d0@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:08:57 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <3bg8p4l93m8j5ah9jf4hpec392j3r6vh7q@4ax.com>: 
>  
>
>>The defence was crippled in other ways also. They were not permitted
>>to see the allied documents that formed the basis of many of the
>>accusations. 
>
>A lie.
>
>>That is presumably the reason that the allies could
>>afford to float so many blatantly obvious forgeries, because they knew
>>that they would never be challenged.
>
>"johannes" will, of course, run from even the attempt to document a
>single such forgery.
>


Yawn. You're getting to be rather dull and tedious, "roger".

>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:49 EDT 2009
Article: 1992989 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:08:57 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:19a6p4t1m34ltie61eicu7glt0opd2ah70@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>>>Much of
>>>>>>>>the holocaust has been shown to have no basis, so it isn't exactly a
>>>>>>>>topic about which I feel any guilt or concern.
>
>>>>>>>You're apparently concerned enough to lie about it.
>
>>>>>>I don't lie about the so-called holocaust. I really don't have that
>>>>>>much interest in it. I just object to destructive lies designed to
>>>>>>make German people hate themselves so that they can be more easily
>>>>>>exploited.
>
>>>>> That statement itself is a lie, given that above you lie that "much of
>>>>> the holocaust has been shown to have no basis."
>
>>>>Which is a fact. Unfortunate for you.
>
>>> Then feel free to document the claim by showing specifically what
>>> parts of the normative understanding of these events has been shown to
>>> have no basis.
>
>>The entire Holocaust story is a fraud. You know it.
>
>Then you should have no problem *documenting* your claim by showing
>specifically what parts of the normative understanding of these events
>has been shown to be fraudulent.

For centuries, the normative understanding was that the earth was
flat. Normative understanding is not equivalent to truth. Normative
understanding can equal ignorance, and very often did in the past.

It is your obligation to show that your story is true, but you have
failed to be convincing, especially given some of the ludicrous
holocaust stories that have surfaced over the years.

>
>Or will you be running away again?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:49 EDT 2009
Article: 1992990 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:58:44 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:10:34 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:35:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 2/7/2009 5:57 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >
>> >[...]
>> >
>> >>> There aren't any Holocaust deniers or "revisionists" who have 
>> >>> contributed anything significant or meaningful to our understanding
>> >>>  of the history.
>> >> 
>> >> Revision is a standard feature of all history, except the holocaust™.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >That of course is balderdash.  An essay I wrote a long time ago rebuts
>> >this foolishness.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On its basic level, revisionism is nothing more than than the advocacy
>> >of revision, which in itself is the act of revising, or modifying
>> >something that already exists. Applied to history, it means that
>> >historians challenge the accepted version of the causes or consequences
>> >of historical events. As such, it is an accepted and important part of
>> >historical endeavour for it serves the dual purpose of constantly
>> >re-examining the past while also improving our understanding of it.
>> >Indeed, if one accepts that history attempts to help us better
>> >understand today by better understanding how we got here, revisionism is
>> >essential.
>> >
>> >Three examples of legitimate historical revisionism should suffice to
>> >illustrate this:
>> >
>> >1. A.J.P. Taylor has applied a very new interpretation to the events
>> >leading up to the Second World War. He minimizes Hitler's role in those
>> >events - the Anschluß with Austria, the annexation of the Sudetenland,
>> >the Danzig crisis, the role of the Allies, appeasement - compared to the
>> >standard interpretation, while portraying Nazi Germany as much less
>> >centralized and monolithic than the norm. 3
>> >
>> >2. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen has challenged virtually all the usual
>> >interpretations of the reasons for the complicity of many Germans in the
>> >perpetration of the Holocaust, and has posited that ordinary Germans
>> >willingly involved themselves because of the existence of a deep-rooted,
>> >eliminationist antisemitism in Germans of that era. He downplays, if not
>> >outright dismisses, the influence of Hitler and the Nazi Party. 4
>> 
>> Goldhagen should be stripped of his academic credentials, since his
>> trash work is nothing less than baseless anti-German hate propaganda.
>
>I didn't say I agreed with him.
>
>> >3. German historian Christian Gerlach has interpreted a diary entry
>> >by Joseph Goebbels and a newly discovered one from Heinrich Himmler to
>> >mean that the date of the decision by Hitler to exterminate the Jews is
>> >in December 1941 rather than late spring or early summer as most have
>> >till now believed. 5
>> >
>> >[...]
>> >
>> >"Revisionists" depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not
>> >occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that
>> >preordained conclusion.
>> 
>> That is nonsense. The holocaust™ story is more flexible than Jell-O,
>> and as various aspects are disproven, the story adjusts to keep the
>> basic claims intact. In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
>> and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
>> constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.
>
>Says you with no support at all.  Your simple declaration doesn't cut
>it.

The same thing could be said of your countless posts in this
newsgroup. Quoting a known propaganda source such as Nizkor does not
constitute proof of anything other than that the statement under
consideration is part of the holocaust dogma. 

> 
>[...]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:50 EDT 2009
Article: 1992993 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:05:15 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Karl wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>>news:rea6p4lf1b6j732mkucbppfbrra6sllq9f@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>>Generally such programs require money, and no Reichstag has ever voted
>>>>>>money for such a project. The whole "proof" for the story consists of
>>>>>>a paper blizzard of depositions by Jewish inmates (not others in the
>>>>>>same places) and bogus "confessions" extracted by torture from camp
>>>>>>employees.
>
>>>>> ... and contemporary documentation by the Nazis themselves, and
>>>>> physical traces consistent with that testimony and documentation --
>>>>> not to mention not a single bit of proof that camp employees were
>>>>> tortured for their testimony...
>
>>>>>>Neither McFee, or anybody else, has yet been able to explain how the
>>>>>>corpses of Hungarian Jews burned underwater at Auschwitz, since the
>>>>>>water table is less than two feet below the surface at that location.
>
>>>>> Answer:  they didn't, nor has anyone claimed they were.
>
>But "karl" ignores this lie
>
>>>>>>Why were the burning pits not seen on allied air photographs taken
>>>>>>during the period of the alleged burning?
>
>>>>> On what specific photos do you pretend they should have been, and what
>>>>> proof do you offer for that assertion?
>
>>>>Surely you should know, Roger. You're the expert.
>
>>> No, I'm no expert.
>>>
>>> But I *am* familiar enough with the evidence to state that there is no
>>> reason to believe that any allied air photographs at all were taken
>>> during the period of the burning.
>>>
>>> Feel free to demonstrate that I am wrong on this.
>
>>You demonstrate your ability to lie with every post you make, Roger.
>>
>>Your Holocaust story is built on straw.
>
>So, where is that photograph, along with documentation showing it was
>taken during the period of the burning?

You're such a twit, "roger". Obviously you have never seen a military
photograph. Canadian ones show the date, time, altitude, as well as
the latitude and longitude of the site being photographed. Without
such information, military photographs are pretty much useless.

The bottom line is that there is no physical evidence for the burning
pit story.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:50 EDT 2009
Article: 1992994 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:     <4th0p4d0oeeqdhhlqk7vf35egg8beatntv@4ax.com> <05r0p4do6n521hv7k4tebg1fkmq6ickrmj@4ax.com>    
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:08:57 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>Generally such programs require money, and no Reichstag has ever voted
>>>>>>money for such a project. The whole "proof" for the story consists of
>>>>>>a paper blizzard of depositions by Jewish inmates (not others in the
>>>>>>same places) and bogus "confessions" extracted by torture from camp
>>>>>>employees.
>
>>>>> ... and contemporary documentation by the Nazis themselves, and
>>>>> physical traces consistent with that testimony and documentation --
>>>>> not to mention not a single bit of proof that camp employees were
>>>>> tortured for their testimony...
>
>>>>>>Neither McFee, or anybody else, has yet been able to explain how the
>>>>>>corpses of Hungarian Jews burned underwater at Auschwitz, since the
>>>>>>water table is less than two feet below the surface at that location.
>
>>>>> Answer:  they didn't, nor has anyone claimed they were.
>
>So one might wonder why "johannes" would lie about it -- if one were
>not already familiar with zie fundamental dishonesty.

LOL

Your desperation is getting to be funny, "roger".

>
>>>>>>Why were the burning pits not seen on allied air photographs taken
>>>>>>during the period of the alleged burning?
>
>>>>> On what specific photos do you pretend they should have been, and what
>>>>> proof do you offer for that assertion?
>
>>>>Surely you should know, Roger. You're the expert.
>
>>>No, I'm no expert.
>>>
>>>But I *am* familiar enough with the evidence to state that there is no
>>>reason to believe that any allied air photographs at all were taken
>>>during the period of the burning.
>>>
>>>Feel free to demonstrate that I am wrong on this.
>
>>American photographs of the period would have resolved a dime on the
>>ground, 
>
>Nope.  That's *still* not possible.
>
>>and was the reason that one of the German "trials" against
>>camp personnel failed. Dozens of so-called "eye witnesses" came away
>>with egg on their faces.
>
>Still no information on the specific photos on which you pretend
>burning pits should have been seen.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:50 EDT 2009
Article: 1992997 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <221c8964-0c2c-42f1-a01f-ad148c9af1b0@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>  <7nhoo41tj2ke8f9t1fvgbkou0ftkq5rt5d@4ax.com> <7f9af5c4-060e-4a3e-a34a-4d7d6fd7441e@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>    <8QFjl.48955$sp1.202@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com>  
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:22:21 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:26:49 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:49:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 2/6/2009 11:29 AM, Eli Grubman wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:17:46 +0000, Daniel Bernard
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:16:58 -0500, Eli Grubman
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Good luck, asshole.  Most jews are moving *away* from 'Israel'.
>> >>>> Even to places such as Germany,
>> >>> Some people never learn huh, though the Krauts are welcome to 'em tbh.
>> >> 
>> >> What was that Santayana said about people who forget history?
>> >
>> >They become denier trash.
>> 
>> LOL, Gordie, just because you assemble an amateurish and unconvincing
>> story, it does not follow that the people who see through the nonsense
>> are somehow "deniers" or some other bit of childish name-calling.
>
>Deniers are simply people who deny something.  If you deny the
>Holocaust like you do, you are a Holocaust denier.  Merely a statement
>of fact.

I don't "deny" the holocaust, anymore than I "deny" the crossing of
the Red Sea by the Israelites. I just view both stories with
scientific skepticism. Am I OBLIGED to believe your stuff, Gordie, is
that what you think?




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:51 EDT 2009
Article: 1993002 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:05:15 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:49:03 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>hypocritically
>>>>>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>>>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>>>>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>>>>>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>
>>>>>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>>>>>what it is.
>
>>>>> No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.
>
>>>>Can't you read, Roger?
>
>>>Sure I can. That's how I know that "johannes" cannot cite a single lie
>>>I have posted.
>
>>Virtually everything you have ever posted here comes under the heading
>>of lies, disortions, or omissions, "Roger".
>
>And yet, you *still* cannot cite a single such instance.

What is your obsession with "cites", poor "roger"? A cite is merely
the opinion of somebody else on the topic under consideration. A cite
>from Nizkor, for example, hardly makes the quoted statement true. All
it means is that the statement came from Nizkor.

Besides, I am not so naive as to think that you are a sincere debater.
What would happen is that I would waste my valubable time looking up
references and you would respond in your reply with [snip]. I won't
play that game. Waste your own time.

I don't need a "cite" from some website to know that things tend to
fall downward, since I can see that for myself. Similarly, I don't
need "cites" to prove the vicious nature of the allied postwar
occupation in Germany. I was there and I experienced it. I'm not
trying to convince you because I know that such an effort is a waste
of time so I don't bother. I'm not here to talk to you, but rather to
Kurt, Ben, Zulu and others who clearly make a lot more sense than you
do. You are simply a cost of doing business. I understand that you are
here to disrupt, and you do that fairly proficiently.

>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:51 EDT 2009
Article: 1993004 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:05:15 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:59:13 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and hypocritically
>>>>>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>
>>>>>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>
>>>>>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>
>>>>>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>
>>>>>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>
>>>>>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>>>>>what it is.
>
>>>>>No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.
>
>>>>LOL
>>>>
>>>>What have you been smoking? The "depths of your hate" line is actually
>>>>funny. Whom do I supposedly hate? 
>
>>>Well, me, for example
>
>>You are no threat to me Roger. You are just a minor amusement if I
>>have nothing more pressing to do. If anything, I find you pathetic,
>>but I certainly don't hate you. You just don't have that level of
>>importance.
>
>Then why else would you be whining about lies you cannot document?

Oh 'roger', you silly twit, documentation is not proof or even
evidence. It just shifts the burden to verifying the validity of the
documentation. There is no documentation that anybody could provide
that you would accept, so the exercise is a waste of time.

Your claim that I've been stating lies is also totally undocumented
and without foundation. Merely you stating something is a lie doesn't
make it so.

Your job here is to disrupt the newsgroup and to litter the landscape
with irrelevancies.
>
>>>-- why else would you be whining about lies you
>>>cannot document?
>
>>>>>And continue to run from even the attempt to factually support that
>>>>>dishonest assertion.
>
>>>>>>>>>Unlike your own lies, such as trying to pretend that Canadian law is
>>>>>>>>>irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian law.
>
>>>>>>>>Canadian law wasn't relevant to the Zündel case. He hadn't violated
>>>>>>>>any Canadian laws, so he was delivered to witch-hunters whose
>>>>>>>>ridiculous legislation he had violated.
>
>>>>>>>Sure, he had.  Canadian immigration and residency laws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But do keep demonstrating your fundamental dishonesty.
>
>>>>>So, you concede that zundel violate those laws?
>
>>>Can we assume your assent, then?
>
>I guess so...
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:51 EDT 2009
Article: 1993005 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:05:47 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:v1g6p41iki9cfcqnlltdv5jmp9eurb94e4@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:48:50 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>>
>>>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>         in message :
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:35:55 -0600, Roger  wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Roger, look to your own lies before sanctimoniously and 
>>>>>>>>>>hypocritically
>>>>>>>>>>berating others for alleged untruths.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>What lies are you referring to, "johannes?"
>>>
>>>>>>>>Practically ALL your efforts in this newsgroup come under the general
>>>>>>>>headings of distortions, omissions, and outright lies, "Roger".
>>>
>>>>>>>IOW, you have nothing you can actually *cite*.
>>>
>>>>>>Your stuff was a waste of energy the first time it passed in front of
>>>>>>my computer screen, so why the hell would I save such crap and consume
>>>>>>valuable storage space in addition?
>>>
>>>>>Who was it that complains about name calling and lack of evidence?
>>>
>>>>I didn't call you any names. I just characterized your material for
>>>>what it is.
>>>
>>>No, you asserted out of the depths of your hate that this is correct.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> What have you been smoking? The "depths of your hate" line is actually
>> funny. Whom do I supposedly hate?
>
>Roger can't answer that because his thinking hasn't gone that far. He only 
>knows that the Holocaust faithful routinely ascribe "hate" to anyone who 
>recognizes the obvious fallacies and absurdities of the Holocaust mythology, 
>and therefore he does the same. His other standard response is simply to 
>call everything "lies" that he can't intelligently argue against. He will do 
>these things over and over forever, as long as you reply to him.
>
>Believe me, the best way to deal with this gnat is simply to killfile him. 

That is exactly what I am going to do immediately after this reply.
Poor "roger" has become exeptionally tedious and repetitive, so there
is nothing further to be served in responding to his nonsense.

>This *greatly* improves the general tone of the newsgroup, in addition to 
>saving a lot of otherwise wasted bandwidth.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:52 EDT 2009
Article: 1993007 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:54:57 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>news:zIqdndmapbb_9AvUnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:80bcp4l251ffq3598gp1o541e8kanh5r5e@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:00:46 -0500, in
>>> , Gord McFee
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2009 10:49 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > "Roger"  wrote in message
>>>> > news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>>>> >> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>>>> >> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>>>> >> message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower heads.  Nor did it have
>>>> >>>> "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>>>> >>> Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature
>>>> >>> of many if not most Holocaust museums.
>>>> >> Your proof of this is ... ?
>>>> >
>>>> > The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I
>>>> > suppose they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but you
>>>> > could always Google this if you're really interested.
>>>>
>>>> Mercy, Neil.  We have been through this before.  Remember this?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-06-tests-show-that-nazis-used-human-remains-to-make-soap
>>>>
>>>> You should.  I posted it in an article to you on November 19, 2006.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Lordy, Neil has disappeared!  I am so unsurprised.
>>
>> I replied to you yesterday, Gord.
>
>Poor old Gord doesn't have much more than "you're running."

That seems to be his favourite line.  LOL

>
>
>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:52 EDT 2009
Article: 1993009 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <2nmdp4p3817ui8o7pg6ea6sjqhhi5kbd4u@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:29:59 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>news:OtCdnWmisqKs7QvUnZ2dnUVZ_hSWnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "B. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:B9GdnfTNH8yL9gvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>>> news:zIqdndmapbb_9AvUnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:80bcp4l251ffq3598gp1o541e8kanh5r5e@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:00:46 -0500, in
>>>>> , Gord McFee
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/5/2009 10:49 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > "Roger"  wrote in message
>>>>>> > news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>>>>>> >> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>>>>>> >> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>>>>>> >> message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower heads.  Nor did it have
>>>>>> >>>> "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>>>>>> >>> Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature
>>>>>> >>> of many if not most Holocaust museums.
>>>>>> >> Your proof of this is ... ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I
>>>>>> > suppose they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but 
>>>>>> > you
>>>>>> > could always Google this if you're really interested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mercy, Neil.  We have been through this before.  Remember this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-06-tests-show-that-nazis-used-human-remains-to-make-soap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should.  I posted it in an article to you on November 19, 2006.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Lordy, Neil has disappeared!  I am so unsurprised.
>>>>
>>>> I replied to you yesterday, Gord.
>>>
>>> Poor old Gord doesn't have much more than "you're running."
>>
>> I've noticed that -- he and some others. I guess that would be called 
>> "poverty of argument."
>
>That Woger Wanker is another who accuses everyone of "fleeing" or "running 
>away" when he feels challenged.

Is 'roger" an other alias of Gourd or is he a stand-alone twit?

>
>
>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:53 EDT 2009
Article: 1993010 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:29:44 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:53:25 -0600, in
>, Roger  wrote:
>
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>    (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>       someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>          in message : 
>
>[...]
>
>> >You're responses are becoming increasingly lame, not to mention
>> >nonsensical.
>> 
>> Just because you do not understand the concept of "supporting one's
>> assertions with evidence" does not make it nonsensical.
>
>Demanding that they support their statements is one the quickest ways
>to get rid of the denier infestation.

It is also nonsense, Gourd, since you are now moving from "proof by
assertion" to "proof by authority figure", which is a little better
but not much.

You seldom support anything you say except via meaningless
boiler-plate material from Nizkor, a know propaganda site.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:53 EDT 2009
Article: 1993012 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:18:04 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:5mbcp4tk1q2egcpn48qpduu3c8qpblemtb@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:42:44 +1000, in
>> , "Karl"  wrote:
>>
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>> news:o1j0p4h04o9l6dvuto27budq98icd23594@4ax.com...
>>> > On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:55:41 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>On 2/5/2009 7:28 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> "Roger"  wrote in message
>>> >>> news:11vmo456lbfgcj7imubpujdhgeo4llrmr0@4ax.com...
>>> >>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>>> >>>> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>>> >>>> message :
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>> news:hssmo455vmffkji8ckejl8m903rgho1ejr@4ax.com...
>>> >>>>>>> (Well, I suppose a new addition is about due, since the story
>>> >>>>>>> does change from time to time.)
>>> >>>>>> As does all history, when new information becomes available.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> But wait -- you claim that the Holocaust "story" can never
>>> >>>>>> change because it is illegal.
>>> >>>>> Bullshit. That makes no sense and obviously I never said any such
>>> >>>>> thing. On the contrary, I have said repeatedly that the Holocaust
>>> >>>>> story is in a state of more or less continuous change as older
>>> >>>>> parts are shown to be ridiculous and the story is adjusted to
>>> >>>>> suit. (For example, the story no longer has Zyklon B gas coming
>>> >>>>> out of shower heads. That part of the fairy tale has been
>>> >>>>> abandoned. So has the soap made from "pure Jewish fat.")
>>> >>>> The normative understanding
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ah, "normative" again! What a wonderfully defensive word you seem to
>>> >>> believe that to be. Any Holocaust story later proven to be nonsense
>>> >>> can be excused on the grounds it wasn't "normative," which evidently
>>> >>> is a term to be retroactively applied as necessary for defense of the
>>> >>> overall fable.
>>> >>
>>> >>Those particular Holocaust stories were never accepted by historians,
>>> >>which is why they are not dismissed.  They were never accepted in the
>>> >>first place other than by deniers, who used them as straw men, so they
>>> >>could pretend parts of the Holocaust story had been disproved.
>>> >
>>> > You're talking through your hat, Gordie. Many of the stories were an
>>> > integral part of holocaust lore until they were disproven. Your buddy
>>> > Shirer certainly wrote them up as "fact" in his polemic, including
>>> > such pearls as the soap and lampshade stories.
>>>
>>> People were executed as a result of these tall tales.
>>
>> Why have you stopped posting as yourself, Ben?
>
>Not another one.
>
>What's wrong with you people? Do you see Ben Cramers everywhere.

I guess that poor gourd is like the American crackpot and senator from
the 1950s who saw Communists behind every door and under every table.

>
>You're about the 6th person now who has accused me of being him.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:53 EDT 2009
Article: 1993018 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <92ndp4taamtg4lnlofuplt35a693lds8mi@4ax.com>
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:38:56 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:33:54 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:55:41 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 2/5/2009 7:28 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:11vmo456lbfgcj7imubpujdhgeo4llrmr0@4ax.com...
>> >>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>> >>> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>> >>> message :
>> >>> 
>> >>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> >>>> news:hssmo455vmffkji8ckejl8m903rgho1ejr@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>> (Well, I suppose a new addition is about due, since the story
>> >>>>>> does change from time to time.)
>> >>>>> As does all history, when new information becomes available.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> But wait -- you claim that the Holocaust "story" can never
>> >>>>> change because it is illegal.
>> >>>> Bullshit. That makes no sense and obviously I never said any such
>> >>>> thing. On the contrary, I have said repeatedly that the Holocaust
>> >>>> story is in a state of more or less continuous change as older
>> >>>> parts are shown to be ridiculous and the story is adjusted to
>> >>>> suit. (For example, the story no longer has Zyklon B gas coming
>> >>>> out of shower heads. That part of the fairy tale has been
>> >>>> abandoned. So has the soap made from "pure Jewish fat.")
>> >>> The normative understanding
>> >> 
>> >> Ah, "normative" again! What a wonderfully defensive word you seem to
>> >> believe that to be. Any Holocaust story later proven to be nonsense
>> >> can be excused on the grounds it wasn't "normative," which evidently
>> >> is a term to be retroactively applied as necessary for defense of the
>> >> overall fable.
>> >
>> >Those particular Holocaust stories were never accepted by historians,
>> >which is why they are not dismissed.  They were never accepted in the
>> >first place other than by deniers, who used them as straw men, so they
>> >could pretend parts of the Holocaust story had been disproved.
>> 
>> You're talking through your hat, Gordie. Many of the stories were an
>> integral part of holocaust lore until they were disproven. Your buddy
>> Shirer certainly wrote them up as "fact" in his polemic, including
>> such pearls as the soap and lampshade stories.
>
>Evasion noted.
> 
>> >But in any event, do you believe that if any part of the Holocaust story
>> >is disproved, all of it is?  Because that is what you seem to be saying.
>> >
>> >[...]
>
>No answer to this?

I didn't see the earlier response. Clearly, having one or two items
fall by the wayside over the years does not necessarily disprove a
larger account. What feeds my skepticism is the observation that the
earlier false stuff was just a vociferously defended as today's
topics. The same invective, the same shrill hysteria, and the same
blustering buffooner still characterize the discussion.

When the Soviet propaganda number of 4 million for Auschwitz was still
the "normative view", the claims were that Jews made up about 25% of
the camp population. After Poland pulled the rug out from under the
Soviet numbers, the holocaust lobby suddenly was claiming that 100% of
the camp inmates were Jews.

Unlike most of the people on your side of the debate, my mind is not
closed and I can be convinced by good evidence, but please don't waste
my time with crematoria that function without fuel, trains for which
the Reichsbahn has no record and no payment, or camp administrations
that only count every tenth arrival thus turning all their record
keeping into nonsense. I am trained to be skeptical, and only to
accept solid, consistent evidence. People such as Elie Wiesel do more
to create skepticism than you can possibly imagine. 




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:54 EDT 2009
Article: 1993020 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
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On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:23:04 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 13, 2:17 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 3:00 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Feb 12, 1:22 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>
>> > >http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/malmedy.htm
>>
>> > That shouldn't have happened, if that's what happened.  Atrocities are
>> > committed on all sides Joe.  Don't forget how the allies(US included)
>> > murdered tens of thousands of innocents (women, children, old/young
>> > men etc.)in their bombing raids.  Inside of Germany.  Don't forget
>> > your firebombing of Japan's cities including the two nuke strikes on
>> > civilians.  Civilians specifically targeted.
>>
>> And how about the Battle of Britain, with intentional bombing of
>> civilians in London by the Luftwaffe?
>> And how about the V-1 and V-2 rockets sent at London by Htiler?
>
>I don't condone that; not at all.  But your side condones murdering
>civies/non-combatants while at the same time you denounce Germany for
>doing what they did.

The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period. Clearly, the
German campaign was military bombing with some unfortunate "collateral
damage" as the Americans like to say.

By contrast, Anglo-American bombings in Germany killed an absolute
minimum of 600 thousand people, all of whom were much better protected
than their British counterparts. Clearly, the Anglo-American campaign
in Germany was anti-civilian terrorist bombing in which a few
industrial installations were damaged as collateral damage. The
civilians were the target. The photographs of the ruined German cities
one is shown are all of residential areas, which were the actual
targets. Of the industrial base, which the Americans CLAIMED they were
attacking, there was so much left that it took the allied dismantlers
working 24/7 almost FOUR YEARS to cart away even a portion of it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:54 EDT 2009
Article: 1993125 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:40:23 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:09jdp45a1cne74l3rfhvfs7ptn6p6o2t51@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:52:58 -0800 (PST), george 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 12, 1:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> >The Canadian security services deal with Canadian security problems.
>>>>
>>>> And they do as they are ordered by the Jew controlled Government.
>>>
>>>You have no idea about democracy do you.
>>>Or the make up of the Canadian government
>>>You are just another sadsack example of a neonazi
>>
>> Harper does pander to Israel to garner votes for his right-wing
>> political party.
>
>Dunno about Canada, but in the U.S. it's not really the right wing that's 
>pro-Israel, i.e. not the genuine conservatives, but the neoconservatives. 
>Unfortunately the neocons have rather thoroughly infiltrated the 
>conservative movement, but there is still a difference and the difference is 
>important.
>
>Read almost anything by Patrick J. Buchanan for an example of real 
>conservative thinking. He is anything but pro-Israel; in fact, rabid 
>pro-Jewish pro-Israel types like Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz 
>practically foam at the mouth when speaking of Buchanan. Dershowitz calls 
>him an anti-Semite, a Nazi lover and most of the other things you see 
>reasonable people called here in this newsgroup, and for exactly the same 
>reasons: Buchanan (a) does not swallow the whole Holocaust fable, and (b) 
>speaks out against our blind, uncritical support of Israel.

I have read a number of things by Pat Buchanan, and while I don't
necessarily buy into everything he says, much of what he says makes
perfectly good sense, far more, certainly than the swill served up by
McVay and consorts.

>
>Note also that many of today's neocons used to be leftists and sometimes 
>radical leftists -- David Horowitz being one of the best examples of this.
>
>So it's complicated. Probably 90% of American Jews are leftist or at least 
>left-leaning, which is why about that percentage always votes Democratic. 
>They do so even when leftists tend to be non-supportive of Israel, which 
>often sets Jew against Jew. With some Jews, perhaps most, socialism seems to 
>come first. So there are strong conflicts between, for example, David 
>Horowitz and Noam Chomsky. Horowitz has even edited a book entitled "The 
>Anti-Chomsky Reader."
>
>The Republican party is still the conservative party, but now unfortunately 
>with a strong overlay of pro-Israel sentiment thanks to the neocons who have 
>slipped in and strongly influence it. On the other hand the Democrats, who 
>depend on and invariably receive huge amounts of Jewish funding, are just as 
>pro-Israel. It was President Jimmy Carter (Democrat) who established the 
>President's Commission on the Holocaust and then that monstrosity, the U.S. 
>Holocaust Memorial Museum. As I recall, Carter did this largely as a sop to 
>Jewish groups that were annoyed with him for his wanting fair treatment of 
>Palestinians.
>
>So in short, those who speak of ZOG (Zionist-occupied government) seem to 
>have it about right in many respects -- and it doesn't much matter which 
>party is in power. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:54 EDT 2009
Article: 1993126 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:46:16 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Feb 15, 5:04 am, Roger  wrote:
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>    (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>       someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote
>>          in message :
>>
>> >Gord McFee wrote:
>> >In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?

Gourd didn't write the above

>>
>> In the way that the agency tasked with protecting the security of
>> Canada, based on all available evidence, found that it was so.
>
>Apparently nazis believe that they are above a nations laws..
>The pretend historian Irving found out that out when he entered a
>country that had banned him

You are commenting on Gourd's writing and babbling about Nazis. Have
you been drinking?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:55 EDT 2009
Article: 1993127 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:38:23 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ibldp4lgl5ge1uu6meeum8mld4g71lnu74@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:22:21 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:26:49 -0500, in
>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:49:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 2/6/2009 11:29 AM, Eli Grubman wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:17:46 +0000, Daniel Bernard
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:16:58 -0500, Eli Grubman
>>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Good luck, asshole.  Most jews are moving *away* from 'Israel'.
>>>> >>>> Even to places such as Germany,
>>>> >>> Some people never learn huh, though the Krauts are welcome to 'em 
>>>> >>> tbh.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What was that Santayana said about people who forget history?
>>>> >
>>>> >They become denier trash.
>>>>
>>>> LOL, Gordie, just because you assemble an amateurish and unconvincing
>>>> story, it does not follow that the people who see through the nonsense
>>>> are somehow "deniers" or some other bit of childish name-calling.
>>>
>>>Deniers are simply people who deny something.  If you deny the
>>>Holocaust like you do, you are a Holocaust denier.  Merely a statement
>>>of fact.
>>
>> I don't "deny" the holocaust, anymore than I "deny" the crossing of
>> the Red Sea by the Israelites. I just view both stories with
>> scientific skepticism. Am I OBLIGED to believe your stuff, Gordie, is
>> that what you think?
>
>Now watch them getting desperate.

They have been quite desperate for a while already, Kurt, if their
foaming at the mouth is any indication.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:55 EDT 2009
Article: 1993128 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:33:21 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:numdp4h42o40v9i9qo1nidblkn3kotedcm@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:18:04 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:
>>
>
>
>>>
>>>What's wrong with you people? Do you see Ben Cramers everywhere.
>>
>> I guess that poor gourd is like the American crackpot and senator from
>> the 1950s who saw Communists behind every door and under every table.
>
>That's different, though. Sen. McCarthy was a loudmouth self-promoter (and a 
>drunk), but he was right about the communists. Our government was loaded 
>with them. 

The Roosevelt government had a major infestation of Soviet agents and
sympathizers.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:55 EDT 2009
Article: 1993129 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ratzinger slams Merkel over criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:02:12 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ibldp4lgl5ge1uu6meeum8mld4g71lnu74@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:22:21 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:26:49 -0500, in
>>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:49:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On 2/6/2009 11:29 AM, Eli Grubman wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:17:46 +0000, Daniel Bernard
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:16:58 -0500, Eli Grubman
>>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Good luck, asshole.  Most jews are moving *away* from 'Israel'.
>>>> >>>> Even to places such as Germany,
>>>> >>> Some people never learn huh, though the Krauts are welcome to 'em 
>>>> >>> tbh.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> What was that Santayana said about people who forget history?
>>>> >
>>>> >They become denier trash.
>>>>
>>>> LOL, Gordie, just because you assemble an amateurish and unconvincing
>>>> story, it does not follow that the people who see through the nonsense
>>>> are somehow "deniers" or some other bit of childish name-calling.
>>>
>>>Deniers are simply people who deny something.  If you deny the
>>>Holocaust like you do, you are a Holocaust denier.  Merely a statement
>>>of fact.
>>
>> I don't "deny" the holocaust, anymore than I "deny" the crossing of
>> the Red Sea by the Israelites. I just view both stories with
>> scientific skepticism. Am I OBLIGED to believe your stuff, Gordie, is
>> that what you think?
>
>Of course it's what he thinks. It's what he attempts to dictate.
>
>Unless you agree with their stupid claims 110% you will be labeled a denier.

That does indeed seem to be the situation. Unfortunately for them, I
don't respond to bluster, threats, or displays of foaming at the
mouth, and they seem to be incapable of putting together a rational
argument. Zulu, for example, blows their little rowboats out of the
water every time.

>
>
>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:56 EDT 2009
Article: 1993130 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:17:31 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 14, 10:24 am, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in messagenews:itndp4tnlotaemq7g00mer77dffvrpmlhm@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:23:04 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>> >  wrote:
>>
>> >>On Feb 13, 2:17 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> >>> On Feb 12, 3:00 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>> >>> wrote:
>>
>> >>> > On Feb 12, 1:22 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>
>> >>> > >http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/malmedy.htm
>>
>> >>> > That shouldn't have happened, if that's what happened. Atrocities are
>> >>> > committed on all sides Joe. Don't forget how the allies(US included)
>> >>> > murdered tens of thousands of innocents (women, children, old/young
>> >>> > men etc.)in their bombing raids. Inside of Germany. Don't forget
>> >>> > your firebombing of Japan's cities including the two nuke strikes on
>> >>> > civilians. Civilians specifically targeted.
>>
>> >>> And how about the Battle of Britain, with intentional bombing of
>> >>> civilians in London by the Luftwaffe?
>> >>> And how about the V-1 and V-2 rockets sent at London by Htiler?
>>
>> >>I don't condone that; not at all.  But your side condones murdering
>> >>civies/non-combatants while at the same time you denounce Germany for
>> >>doing what they did.
>>
>> > The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>> > thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>> > fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period. Clearly, the
>> > German campaign was military bombing with some unfortunate "collateral
>> > damage" as the Americans like to say.
>>
>> > By contrast, Anglo-American bombings in Germany killed an absolute
>> > minimum of 600 thousand people, all of whom were much better protected
>> > than their British counterparts. Clearly, the Anglo-American campaign
>> > in Germany was anti-civilian terrorist bombing in which a few
>> > industrial installations were damaged as collateral damage. The
>> > civilians were the target. The photographs of the ruined German cities
>> > one is shown are all of residential areas, which were the actual
>> > targets. Of the industrial base, which the Americans CLAIMED they were
>> > attacking, there was so much left that it took the allied dismantlers
>> > working 24/7 almost FOUR YEARS to cart away even a portion of it.
>>
>> The Allies did not want to destroy Germany's manufacturing base.
>> Particularly in the latter stages of the war.
>>
>> They knew they would need Germany to move ahead with their manufacturing
>> industry to give them any hope of ever getting out of the place.
>>
>>
>
>That's very true.  The US especially brought in droves of highly
>skilled people after the war as well; scientists by the hundreds in
>order to help the US with their rocketry and space program.

Both the USSR and the USA had extensive kidnapping programs to scoop
up German scientists and engineers. The USA was the more efficient of
the two.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:56 EDT 2009
Article: 1993131 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:57:25 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf escribió:
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:23:04 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2:17 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>> On Feb 12, 3:00 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 1:22 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/malmedy.htm
>>>>> That shouldn't have happened, if that's what happened.  Atrocities are
>>>>> committed on all sides Joe.  Don't forget how the allies(US included)
>>>>> murdered tens of thousands of innocents (women, children, old/young
>>>>> men etc.)in their bombing raids.  Inside of Germany.  Don't forget
>>>>> your firebombing of Japan's cities including the two nuke strikes on
>>>>> civilians.  Civilians specifically targeted.
>>>> And how about the Battle of Britain, with intentional bombing of
>>>> civilians in London by the Luftwaffe?
>>>> And how about the V-1 and V-2 rockets sent at London by Htiler?
>>> I don't condone that; not at all.  But your side condones murdering
>>> civies/non-combatants while at the same time you denounce Germany for
>>> doing what they did.
>> 
>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period. Clearly, the
>> German campaign was military bombing with some unfortunate "collateral
>> damage" as the Americans like to say.
>
>Bombing raids by the Allied aviation provoked 67,178 deaths and 75,660 wounded among
>French civilian population.

In other words, more French "allies" died at the hands of the
Anglo-American bomber fleets than British civilians died at the hands
of German air fleets.

>
>Those bombing were performed mainly daily by the 8th, 9th and 15th US Air Force.
>On average, only 3 air bombers on 5 "found" their target.
>
>For the nightly bombings performed by the RAF Command there were only 2 on 5.
>Most of casualties of those bombings occurred during the 1st semester of 1944.
>
>By comparison, the Wehrmacht provoked 20,000 civilian deaths during all its French
>campaign in 1940.
>
> From reports of "US Strategic Bombing Survey of Word War II".
>
>
>> By contrast, Anglo-American bombings in Germany killed an absolute
>> minimum of 600 thousand people, all of whom were much better protected
>> than their British counterparts. Clearly, the Anglo-American campaign
>> in Germany was anti-civilian terrorist bombing in which a few
>> industrial installations were damaged as collateral damage. The
>> civilians were the target. The photographs of the ruined German cities
>> one is shown are all of residential areas, which were the actual
>> targets. Of the industrial base, which the Americans CLAIMED they were
>> attacking, there was so much left that it took the allied dismantlers
>> working 24/7 almost FOUR YEARS to cart away even a portion of it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:56 EDT 2009
Article: 1993132 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:24:12 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:itndp4tnlotaemq7g00mer77dffvrpmlhm@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:23:04 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 13, 2:17 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>> On Feb 12, 3:00 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Feb 12, 1:22 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > >http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/malmedy.htm
>>>>
>>>> > That shouldn't have happened, if that's what happened. Atrocities are
>>>> > committed on all sides Joe. Don't forget how the allies(US included)
>>>> > murdered tens of thousands of innocents (women, children, old/young
>>>> > men etc.)in their bombing raids. Inside of Germany. Don't forget
>>>> > your firebombing of Japan's cities including the two nuke strikes on
>>>> > civilians. Civilians specifically targeted.
>>>>
>>>> And how about the Battle of Britain, with intentional bombing of
>>>> civilians in London by the Luftwaffe?
>>>> And how about the V-1 and V-2 rockets sent at London by Htiler?
>>>
>>>I don't condone that; not at all.  But your side condones murdering
>>>civies/non-combatants while at the same time you denounce Germany for
>>>doing what they did.
>>
>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period. Clearly, the
>> German campaign was military bombing with some unfortunate "collateral
>> damage" as the Americans like to say.
>>
>> By contrast, Anglo-American bombings in Germany killed an absolute
>> minimum of 600 thousand people, all of whom were much better protected
>> than their British counterparts. Clearly, the Anglo-American campaign
>> in Germany was anti-civilian terrorist bombing in which a few
>> industrial installations were damaged as collateral damage. The
>> civilians were the target. The photographs of the ruined German cities
>> one is shown are all of residential areas, which were the actual
>> targets. Of the industrial base, which the Americans CLAIMED they were
>> attacking, there was so much left that it took the allied dismantlers
>> working 24/7 almost FOUR YEARS to cart away even a portion of it.
>
>The Allies did not want to destroy Germany's manufacturing base. 
>Particularly in the latter stages of the war.
>
>They knew they would need Germany to move ahead with their manufacturing 
>industry to give them any hope of ever getting out of the place.

The vast bulk of the damage to Germany's industry was the work of the
postwar dismantlers. That program only stopped when the Americans
belatedly realized that if they continued, they would lose all Europe
to the USSR.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:57 EDT 2009
Article: 1993133 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country.  An amazing version of massive gassings at Auschwitz. Nuremberg Russian tales.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:52:47 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:58:44 -0500, Gord McFee 
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:10:34 -0500, in
>>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:35:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
>
>...
>
>>> >"Revisionists" depart from the conclusion that the Holocaust did not
>>> >occur and work backwards through the facts to adapt them to that
>>> >preordained conclusion.
>>> 
>>> That is nonsense. The holocaust? story is more flexible than Jell-O,
>>> and as various aspects are disproven, the story adjusts to keep the
>>> basic claims intact. In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
>>> and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
>>> constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.
>>
>>Says you with no support at all.  Your simple declaration doesn't cut
>>it.
>
>I am afraid that the "right screenplay" of "massive gassings" was written AFTER the 
>war by making something with the mix of the numerous versions available and a minimum 
>of technical credibility...
>
>That is the reason which explains that at Nuremberg, thus before the establishment of 
>a "right screenplay", we have several and various incredible versions according the 
>the fantasy of the talkers.
>
>Just an example. The way that "gassing operations" were carried out in the 
>underground rooms of the Kremas at Auschwitz.
>
>At Nuremberg, the Russian prosecutor Rudenko gave a report coming from the counts of 
>thousands of internees at Auschwitz.
>
>For instance, that "version" doesn't tell neither about a supposed "undressing room"
>nor about "fake showers" to make the victims enter peacefully into the "gas chambers"
>
>The victims stripped "in front of the gas chamber" (difficult to figure out where 
>because it was only a little vestibule "in front") and whips were used to drive them
>through the 1 m wide door into the "gas chamber".
>
>The total Time mentioned of 12 min, including 4 to kill and 8 to the ventilation, is
>quite the record registered in "gassing operations". As it is incredible, the "right 
>screenplay" corrected these times to make it more plausible by contradicting several 
>thousands of those supposed eyewitnesses.
>
>As a matter of fact the tales concerning "massive gassings" at Birkenau are not a 
>question of telling the truth, it is about the question of telling convincing lies.
>
>Not surprising that ANY MATERIAL PROOF can be showed to support them.
>
><...>
>
>GENERAL R. A. RUDENKO (Chief Prosecutor for the U.S.SR.)
>
>I will now quote an extract of the appeal to the public opinion of the world from the 
>representatives of several thousand former internees at Auschwitz:
>
>"The gassing of unbelievable numbers of people took place upon the arrival of 
>transports from various countries: France, Belgium, Holland, Greece, Italy, Hungary, 
>Czechoslovakia, Germany, Poland, the U.S.S.R., Norway, and others.

It would seem that the operative word in that paragraph is
"unbelievable". The Soviets were masters at putting together gruel
fables.






> The new arrivals 
>had to pass before an SS doctor or else before the SS commandant of the camp. The 
>latter pointed his finger to the right or left. The left meant death by gas. Out of a 
>transport of 1,500, an average of 1,200 to 1,300 were immediately to be gassed. 
>Rarely the quota of people sent into the camp was a little higher. It often occurred 
>that the SS doctors Mengele and Thilo performed this selection while whistling a 
>lively tune. The people destined to be gassed were obliged to strip in front of the 
>gas-chambers, after which they were driven with whips into the gas-chambers. Then the 
>door of the underground gas-chamber was closed, and the people were gassed. Death 
>occurred approximately 4 minutes later. After 8 minutes the gas chamber was opened, 
>and workmen belonging to a special commando, the so-called Sonderkommando, 
>transported the bodies to the cremation ovens which burned day and night.
>
>"There was a shortage of ovens at the time of the arrival of transports from Hungary; 
>consequently enormous ditches were dug for the purpose of cremating the bodies. Fires 
>made of wood soaked in gasoline were laid in these ditches and the bodies were thrown 
>into them. However, the SS men frequently hurled live children and adults into those 
>ditches, where these unhappy victims died a terrible death. To save gasoline, the 
>fats and oils necessary for cremations were partly derived
>
>174
>
>8 Feb. 46
>
>from the bodies of gassed people. Fats and oils for technical purposes and for the 
>manufacture of soap were also obtained from the corpses.
>
>The appeal ends with the following words:
>
>"Together with 10,000 rescued inmates of all nationalities, we demand that the crimes 
>and the inconceivable atrocities of the Hitlerites should not remain unpunished."
>
>This just demand is supported by the entire civilized world and by all freedom-loving 
>people. The organized mass annihilation of prisoners of war constitutes one of the 
>vilest crimes of the Hitlerite conspirators.
>
><...>
>
>http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-08-46.asp


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:57 EDT 2009
Article: 1993216 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a good country
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:27:28 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:23:33 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >> That is nonsense. The holocaust™ story is more flexible than Jell-O,
>> >> and as various aspects are disproven, the story adjusts to keep the
>> >> basic claims intact. In other words, the final conclusion is dogma,
>> >> and the events, real and imaginary, that lead up to the conclusion are
>> >> constantly adjusted to support the conclusion.
>> >
>> >Says you with no support at all.  Your simple declaration doesn't cut
>> >it.
>> 
>> The same thing could be said of your countless posts in this
>> newsgroup. Quoting a known propaganda source such as Nizkor does not
>> constitute proof of anything other than that the statement under
>> consideration is part of the holocaust dogma. 
>
>Apart from the fact that there is nothing wrong with Nizkor and that
>you are unable to discredit a single item on that vast website, your
>statement is wrong, since I rarely quote Nizkor.  I usually quote
>primary sources or scholarly works.

That is nonsense. You usually go for "proof by assertion". Things are
not true merely because you proclaim them to be.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:58 EDT 2009
Article: 1993223 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:04:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>> >>> LOL
>> >>
>> >> He was a threat to Jews.
>> >
>> > He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>> 
>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"? 
>
>
>
>Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>
>In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>propagation of anti-Semitic material. “Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy,” the judge
>said.
>
>“Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>security, but also a threat to the international community of
>nations.”
>
>[...]
>
>Judge Blais said Mr. Zundel's Toronto home was “a revolving door” for
>every member of a global white supremacist movement.
>
>He said Mr. Zundel deftly exploited Canada as a “safe haven,” and used
>his skills as a communicator and Internet pioneer to give new life to
>the white supremacy movement.
>
>Mr. Zundel, 65, has been living in solitary confinement in a Toronto
>jail since his arrest on May 1, 2003. In keeping with the security
>certificate process, much of the evidence at his hearing was heard in
>secret. 
>
>[...]
>
>He described Mr. Zundel as a man who, inspired by Hitler and
>latter-day Nazi sympathizers, set out to support the neo-Nazi movement
>in dozens of countries. “He also tried, by all means possible, to
>develop and maintain a global network of groups that have an interest
>in the same right-wing, extremist, neo-Nazi mindset,” Judge Blais
>said.
>
>Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the “Carlton Street
>bunker,” several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>authorities for violating an immigration requirement. 
>
>[...]
>
>Judge Blais said that what he heard in secret linked Mr. Zundel to
>leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement and many
>others who often resort to violence. 
>
>He said that if Mr. Zundel truly repudiated violence, he would have
>shunned these people.
>
>Judge Blais said that Mr. Zundel is an egotist who could not hide his
>pleasure at the enormous influence he exerted as a “guru of the
>right.”
>
>“I remember how proud he was when he mentioned in cross-examination
>that his Zundelsite received hits from 400,000 people a month, and
>that after his arrest, the number grew to 1.2-million people accessing
>his website each month,” Judge Blais said.
>
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050225.wxzundel0225/BNStory/Front/

LOL

With due respect for the ideas of Judge Blais, but his judgement was a
politically motivated diatribe and does not show at all how Canada was
threatened by Mr. Zündel. Blais' ideas notwithstanding, the whole
notion of a threat is utter horseshit.

> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:58 EDT 2009
Article: 1993229 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:05:45 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:07:08 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:18:48 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Bullshit.
>
>
>
>Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>
>In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>propagation of anti-Semitic material. “Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy,” the judge
>said.
>
>“Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>security, but also a threat to the international community of
>nations.”

LOL

Now the poor guy threatens the whole world, does he? This is such hype
that it goes well beyond reasonable. This is just political crap with
no meaning whatever. It puts the Canadian judicial system into
disrepute when it is used this shamelessly for an obviously political
and partisan agenda that has nothing to do with justice and everything
to do with political manipulation.

>
>[...]
>
>Judge Blais said Mr. Zundel's Toronto home was “a revolving door” for
>every member of a global white supremacist movement.
>
>He said Mr. Zundel deftly exploited Canada as a “safe haven,” and used
>his skills as a communicator and Internet pioneer to give new life to
>the white supremacy movement.
>
>Mr. Zundel, 65, has been living in solitary confinement in a Toronto
>jail since his arrest on May 1, 2003. In keeping with the security
>certificate process, much of the evidence at his hearing was heard in
>secret. 
>
>[...]
>
>He described Mr. Zundel as a man who, inspired by Hitler and
>latter-day Nazi sympathizers, set out to support the neo-Nazi movement
>in dozens of countries. “He also tried, by all means possible, to
>develop and maintain a global network of groups that have an interest
>in the same right-wing, extremist, neo-Nazi mindset,” Judge Blais
>said.
>
>Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the “Carlton Street
>bunker,” several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>authorities for violating an immigration requirement. 
>
>[...]
>
>Judge Blais said that what he heard in secret linked Mr. Zundel to
>leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement and many
>others who often resort to violence. 
>
>He said that if Mr. Zundel truly repudiated violence, he would have
>shunned these people.
>
>Judge Blais said that Mr. Zundel is an egotist who could not hide his
>pleasure at the enormous influence he exerted as a “guru of the
>right.”
>
>“I remember how proud he was when he mentioned in cross-examination
>that his Zundelsite received hits from 400,000 people a month, and
>that after his arrest, the number grew to 1.2-million people accessing
>his website each month,” Judge Blais said.
>
>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050225.wxzundel0225/BNStory/Front/


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:58 EDT 2009
Article: 1993232 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:07:04 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:15:25 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:05:36 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:59:10 -0500, in
>> ><8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil Harrington"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>> >> > On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> >> >> news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>> >> >>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in 
>> >> >>> , "Neil Harrington" 
>> >> >>>  wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> >> >>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>> >> >>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come,
>> >> >>>>> an Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in 
>> >> >>>>> message <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>> >> >>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>> >> >>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>> >> >>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>> >> >>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>> >> >>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>> >> >>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>> >> >>>> denial?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>> >> >>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>> >> >> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>> >> > questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>> >> > Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>> >> > obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>> >> > that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>> >> 
>> >> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>> >> be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>> >> one:
>> >> 
>> >> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>> >
>> >I am very familiar with the Zündel story, believe me.  That clipping
>> >does not say anything about Zündel being thrown in prison for denying
>> >or questioning the Holocaust, which is my point.
>> 
>> You don't have a point, Gordie, other than possibly the top of your
>> head.
>
>The statement of a man who has no argument,.

All I've seen from you is boiler-plate in cut-and-paste format from
somewhere else. You don't have any arguments.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:59 EDT 2009
Article: 1993236 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:14:07 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 01:01:56 -0500, in
>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:x_Fjl.172937$zQ4.32633@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>> > On 2/5/2009 10:49 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>> >>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>> >>> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>> >>> message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>> >>
>> >>>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower heads.  Nor did it have
>> >>>>> "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>> >>>> Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature
>> >>>> of many if not most Holocaust museums.
>> >>> Your proof of this is ... ?
>> >>
>> >> The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I
>> >> suppose they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but you
>> >> could always Google this if you're really interested.
>> >
>> > Mercy, Neil.  We have been through this before.  Remember this?
>> >
>> > http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-06-tests-show-that-nazis-used-human-remains-to-make-soap
>> >
>> > You should.  I posted it in an article to you on November 19, 2006.
>> 
>> I'll take your word for it, Gord, but no, I don't remember that at all. 
>> That's over two years ago; I don't necessarily look at every link someone 
>> puts in a post; it mostly depends on how much time I have or what else I'm 
>> doing at the time. That article I'm quite sure I've never seen before. 
>> Frankly I'm a bit dubious about the claim that "human tissue" could be 
>> identified in manufactured soap, but maybe it could.
>
>I don't pretend to understand the science behind it.  I merely posted
>the article.

Cut-and-paste is your air-headed specialty.

> 
>> I do recall that the soap-from-pure-Jewish-fat issue has been discussed here 
>> in the past. As I recall, what was said was that Germans experimented with 
>> making soap from human fat and abandoned the project as impractical. In any 
>> case it had nothing to do with the popular Holocaust story about such soap 
>> being manufactured, packaged and marketed, marked "RJF" for "pure Jewish 
>> fat." That was just another nonsensical Holocaust fable, as I think you'll 
>> have to agree.
>> 
>> It's hard to imagine that anyone would actually believe soap would be 
>> marketed that way even if it *were* so manufactured (can you really picture 
>> a German hausfrau asking the storekeeper for "some of that nice soap made 
>> from pure Jewish fat"?) but evidently many folks were gullible enough to 
>> believe it, and we know that on at least two occasions after the war such 
>> soap was buried with Jewish funeral rituals.
>
>As far as I am concerned, it becomes a red herring, since it is
>irrelevant to the historicity of the Holocaust, which is my main
>interest.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:59 EDT 2009
Article: 1993237 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:17:21 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:54:05 -0500, in
><2nmdp4p3817ui8o7pg6ea6sjqhhi5kbd4u@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:29:59 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> >"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> >news:OtCdnWmisqKs7QvUnZ2dnUVZ_hSWnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>
>> >> "B. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:B9GdnfTNH8yL9gvUnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> >>> news:zIqdndmapbb_9AvUnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> >>>> news:80bcp4l251ffq3598gp1o541e8kanh5r5e@4ax.com...
>> >>>>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:00:46 -0500, in
>> >>>>> , Gord McFee
>> >>>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 2/5/2009 10:49 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> > "Roger"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>> > news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>> >> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>> >>>>>> >> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>> >>>>>> >> message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> >>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower heads.  Nor did it have
>> >>>>>> >>>> "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>> >>>>>> >>> Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature
>> >>>>>> >>> of many if not most Holocaust museums.
>> >>>>>> >> Your proof of this is ... ?
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I
>> >>>>>> > suppose they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but 
>> >>>>>> > you
>> >>>>>> > could always Google this if you're really interested.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mercy, Neil.  We have been through this before.  Remember this?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-06-tests-show-that-nazis-used-human-remains-to-make-soap
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You should.  I posted it in an article to you on November 19, 2006.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> [...]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lordy, Neil has disappeared!  I am so unsurprised.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I replied to you yesterday, Gord.
>> >>>
>> >>> Poor old Gord doesn't have much more than "you're running."
>> >>
>> >> I've noticed that -- he and some others. I guess that would be called 
>> >> "poverty of argument."
>> >
>> >That Woger Wanker is another who accuses everyone of "fleeing" or "running 
>> >away" when he feels challenged.
>> 
>> Is 'roger" an other alias of Gourd or is he a stand-alone twit?
>
>Not that you would believe anything I would say, but actually, all the
>posters on my side are actually me.

LOL

That would be really quite funny but it is rather improbable.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:48:59 EDT 2009
Article: 1993238 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope horrified by german criticism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:15:44 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:48:50 -0500, in
>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:80bcp4l251ffq3598gp1o541e8kanh5r5e@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 14:00:46 -0500, in
>> > , Gord McFee
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2/5/2009 10:49 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Roger"  wrote in message
>> >> > news:td1no4l3lpugi4hg4qgsn877pd0mf4p6bd@4ax.com...
>> >> >> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come, an
>> >> >> Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in
>> >> >> message <0YadnQqCh4WyGRbUnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>> never had Zyklon B coming out of shower heads.  Nor did it have
>> >> >>>> "pure Jewish fat" soap.
>> >> >>> Nevertheless, that "pure Jewish fat" soap was a regular feature
>> >> >>> of many if not most Holocaust museums.
>> >> >> Your proof of this is ... ?
>> >> >
>> >> > The many photos of such soap in those museums that were online. I
>> >> > suppose they've mostly been removed now out of embarrassment, but you
>> >> > could always Google this if you're really interested.
>> >>
>> >> Mercy, Neil.  We have been through this before.  Remember this?
>> >>
>> >> http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-06-tests-show-that-nazis-used-human-remains-to-make-soap
>> >>
>> >> You should.  I posted it in an article to you on November 19, 2006.
>> >>
>> >> [...]
>> >
>> > Lordy, Neil has disappeared!  I am so unsurprised.
>> 
>> I replied to you yesterday, Gord.
>
>Just saw it and replied.  My apologies.

These are clearly the early signs of Alzheimer's, gourd.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:00 EDT 2009
Article: 1993239 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:34:31 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf escribió:
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:17:31 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 10:24 am, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in messagenews:itndp4tnlotaemq7g00mer77dffvrpmlhm@4ax.com...
>
>>>> The Allies did not want to destroy Germany's manufacturing base.
>>>> Particularly in the latter stages of the war.
>
>
>Especially those which were of US Corps (GM, General Electric, Ford...) or US Partners.
>
>"Company officials have maintained that the Hitler government took over their German 
>plants and that they "lost control" of the situation. But documents discovered in 
>German and American archives show that in some cases, American managers of both Ford 
>and GM seem to have gone along with the conversion of those plants to military 
>production.
>
>"When American GIs liberated the Ford plants in Cologne and Berlin, they found 
>destitute foreign workers confined behind barbed wire and company documents extolling 
>the ‘genius of the Fuhrer,’" writes Michael Dobbs.
>
>Shamelessly, after the war both GM and Ford demanded reparations from the U.S. 
>government for damage to their German plants caused by Allied bombing. In 1967, GM 
>was compensated with $33 million from the U.S. government for the American bombing of 
>its Russelsheim plant."
>
>Nasty nazi business. Corporate Deals with Nazi Germany
>
>http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_nastybiz.html
>
>>>> They knew they would need Germany to move ahead with their manufacturing
>>>> industry to give them any hope of ever getting out of the place.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That's very true.  The US especially brought in droves of highly
>>> skilled people after the war as well; scientists by the hundreds in
>>> order to help the US with their rocketry and space program.
>> 
>> Both the USSR and the USA had extensive kidnapping programs to scoop
>> up German scientists and engineers. The USA was the more efficient of
>> the two.
>> 
>
>And the extensive the robbery of machines and heavy equipments and wild appropriation 
>of German patents.

It was in fact the largest looting campaign in human history.

>
>It says much about the actual educational and industrial potential of Germany which 
>allowed such amazing recuperation in such little time.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:00 EDT 2009
Article: 1993241 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <7d519fc8-11f3-4dcf-ab63-e0430eee083a@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>  <1f8b8f8f-bb7f-4ae2-8580-6eb0f0c3ad23@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>  <388d5c67-b3b3-4798-b639-ed8d34826e08@r27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <83e1fba7-a308-452d-9d02-7c90491e0ca3@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>   <4ndep452b0vqbm8b9vh2js2luafrmfsiuf@4ax.com> 
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:32:32 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:4ndep452b0vqbm8b9vh2js2luafrmfsiuf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:24:12 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:itndp4tnlotaemq7g00mer77dffvrpmlhm@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:23:04 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Feb 13, 2:17 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 3:00 pm, "Bent Attorney Esq." 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Feb 12, 1:22 pm, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > >http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/malmedy.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > That shouldn't have happened, if that's what happened. Atrocities 
>>>>>> > are
>>>>>> > committed on all sides Joe. Don't forget how the allies(US included)
>>>>>> > murdered tens of thousands of innocents (women, children, old/young
>>>>>> > men etc.)in their bombing raids. Inside of Germany. Don't forget
>>>>>> > your firebombing of Japan's cities including the two nuke strikes on
>>>>>> > civilians. Civilians specifically targeted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And how about the Battle of Britain, with intentional bombing of
>>>>>> civilians in London by the Luftwaffe?
>>>>>> And how about the V-1 and V-2 rockets sent at London by Htiler?
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't condone that; not at all.  But your side condones murdering
>>>>>civies/non-combatants while at the same time you denounce Germany for
>>>>>doing what they did.
>>>>
>>>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period. Clearly, the
>>>> German campaign was military bombing with some unfortunate "collateral
>>>> damage" as the Americans like to say.
>>>>
>>>> By contrast, Anglo-American bombings in Germany killed an absolute
>>>> minimum of 600 thousand people, all of whom were much better protected
>>>> than their British counterparts. Clearly, the Anglo-American campaign
>>>> in Germany was anti-civilian terrorist bombing in which a few
>>>> industrial installations were damaged as collateral damage. The
>>>> civilians were the target. The photographs of the ruined German cities
>>>> one is shown are all of residential areas, which were the actual
>>>> targets. Of the industrial base, which the Americans CLAIMED they were
>>>> attacking, there was so much left that it took the allied dismantlers
>>>> working 24/7 almost FOUR YEARS to cart away even a portion of it.
>>>
>>>The Allies did not want to destroy Germany's manufacturing base.
>>>Particularly in the latter stages of the war.
>>>
>>>They knew they would need Germany to move ahead with their manufacturing
>>>industry to give them any hope of ever getting out of the place.
>>
>> The vast bulk of the damage to Germany's industry was the work of the
>> postwar dismantlers. That program only stopped when the Americans
>> belatedly realized that if they continued, they would lose all Europe
>> to the USSR.
>
>Exactly.
>
>Until I read MacDonogh's work "After the Reich" I had no idea of the 
>disgusting behaviour of the Allies toward Germany and the German people.
>
>I recommend it highly to anyone looking to further their knowledge of WWII 
>and its immediate aftermath.

It was another example of American officials of Jewish extraction
initiating and following policies that were ultimately detrimental to
the USA.

>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:00 EDT 2009
Article: 1993455 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:45:53 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:40lgp41s1rn8ibtbiaiqj36k8vnpfhrp8b@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:00:36 +1000, in
>> , "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:NYLll.266249$NN4.48494@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> > On 2/14/2009 9:34 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>
>
>>> >>
>>> >> Did he elaborate on the "danger" Zundel posed?
>>> >
>>> > Yes.  In the section below that you ignored.
>>>
>>> I didn't ignore it. There is nothing of any consequence there which would
>>> lead me to think Zundel was a threat to Canadian society.
>>
>> You ignored it because it does exactly what you say it doesn't.  It
>> explains why Mr Justice Blais found that Zündel was a "threat to
>> Canada's national security".
>>
>> Amongst others:
>>
>> - his support of right-wing extremism
>
>Is "right-wing extremism" a real threat in Canada? What have "right-wing 
>extremists" done there, for example, that had any connection with Zundel?

Zündel and his followers did nothing. His opponents, on the other
hand, burned his house.

>
>
>> - his global propagation of antisemitic material
>
>Even if that were true, how would it be a "threat to Canadian security"? But 
>how is questioning the Holocaust stories "antisemitic" in the first place? 
>What this really means is that anyone who questions the orthodox story will 
>ipso facto be charged with "antisemitism," isn't that so?

Sadly, that seems to be how it works.

>
>[ . . . ]
>
>> - he was linked to leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations
>> movement and many others who often resort to violence.
>
>Are the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement "and many others" active in 
>Canada?

I've never heard of them being active, but it seems that if we allow
Communists to stand for election then why not others. If they have no
support they will get no votes.

> Causing a lot of trouble there, are they? What, for example? And how 
>was Zundel "linked to leaders of" such organizations? What does that mean 
>exactly, "linked to"?

It is so vague as to be meaningless.

>
>
>> - he is an egotist who could not hide his pleasure at the enormous
>> influence he exerted as a "guru of the right."
>
>His supposed pleasure in this would be a "threat to national security" how, 
>exactly? 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:01 EDT 2009
Article: 1993456 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:05:51 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:1nvep4dfqmmbq39fui70rctmkulssingrk@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:04:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>>>, "Neil Harrington"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>> >>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>>>> >>> LOL
>>>> >>
>>>> >> He was a threat to Jews.
>>>> >
>>>> > He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>>>>
>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>>>to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>>>
>>>In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>>>labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>>>image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>>>propagation of anti-Semitic material. "Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>>>this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy," the judge
>>>said.
>>>
>>>"Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>>>security, but also a threat to the international community of
>>>nations."
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>Judge Blais said Mr. Zundel's Toronto home was "a revolving door" for
>>>every member of a global white supremacist movement.
>>>
>>>He said Mr. Zundel deftly exploited Canada as a "safe haven," and used
>>>his skills as a communicator and Internet pioneer to give new life to
>>>the white supremacy movement.
>>>
>>>Mr. Zundel, 65, has been living in solitary confinement in a Toronto
>>>jail since his arrest on May 1, 2003. In keeping with the security
>>>certificate process, much of the evidence at his hearing was heard in
>>>secret.
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>He described Mr. Zundel as a man who, inspired by Hitler and
>>>latter-day Nazi sympathizers, set out to support the neo-Nazi movement
>>>in dozens of countries. "He also tried, by all means possible, to
>>>develop and maintain a global network of groups that have an interest
>>>in the same right-wing, extremist, neo-Nazi mindset," Judge Blais
>>>said.
>>>
>>>Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the "Carlton Street
>>>bunker," several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>>>new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>>>authorities for violating an immigration requirement.
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>Judge Blais said that what he heard in secret linked Mr. Zundel to
>>>leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement and many
>>>others who often resort to violence.
>>>
>>>He said that if Mr. Zundel truly repudiated violence, he would have
>>>shunned these people.
>>>
>>>Judge Blais said that Mr. Zundel is an egotist who could not hide his
>>>pleasure at the enormous influence he exerted as a "guru of the
>>>right."
>>>
>>>"I remember how proud he was when he mentioned in cross-examination
>>>that his Zundelsite received hits from 400,000 people a month, and
>>>that after his arrest, the number grew to 1.2-million people accessing
>>>his website each month," Judge Blais said.
>>>
>>>http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050225.wxzundel0225/BNStory/Front/
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> With due respect for the ideas of Judge Blais, but his judgement was a
>> politically motivated diatribe and does not show at all how Canada was
>> threatened by Mr. Zündel. Blais' ideas notwithstanding, the whole
>> notion of a threat is utter horseshit.
>
>I don't suppose Judge Blais might have been a jew?

I'm not that familiar with French versions of Jewish names, but I
suppose that it is possible.

>
>
>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:01 EDT 2009
Article: 1993457 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:02:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:59:55 +1000, in
>, "B. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:UXLll.266248$NN4.153566@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>> > On 2/14/2009 10:05 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:1nvep4dfqmmbq39fui70rctmkulssingrk@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:04:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>> >>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> >>>> [...]
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>> >>>>>>>> LOL
>> >>>>>>> He was a threat to Jews.
>> >>>>>> He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>> >>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>> >>>> to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>> >>>> labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>> >>>> image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>> >>>> propagation of anti-Semitic material. "Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>> >>>> this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy," the judge
>> >>>> said.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>> >>>> security, but also a threat to the international community of
>> >>>> nations."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [...]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Judge Blais said Mr. Zundel's Toronto home was "a revolving door" for
>> >>>> every member of a global white supremacist movement.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> He said Mr. Zundel deftly exploited Canada as a "safe haven," and used
>> >>>> his skills as a communicator and Internet pioneer to give new life to
>> >>>> the white supremacy movement.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mr. Zundel, 65, has been living in solitary confinement in a Toronto
>> >>>> jail since his arrest on May 1, 2003. In keeping with the security
>> >>>> certificate process, much of the evidence at his hearing was heard in
>> >>>> secret.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [...]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> He described Mr. Zundel as a man who, inspired by Hitler and
>> >>>> latter-day Nazi sympathizers, set out to support the neo-Nazi movement
>> >>>> in dozens of countries. "He also tried, by all means possible, to
>> >>>> develop and maintain a global network of groups that have an interest
>> >>>> in the same right-wing, extremist, neo-Nazi mindset," Judge Blais
>> >>>> said.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the "Carlton Street
>> >>>> bunker," several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>> >>>> new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>> >>>> authorities for violating an immigration requirement.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [...]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Judge Blais said that what he heard in secret linked Mr. Zundel to
>> >>>> leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement and many
>> >>>> others who often resort to violence.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> He said that if Mr. Zundel truly repudiated violence, he would have
>> >>>> shunned these people.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Judge Blais said that Mr. Zundel is an egotist who could not hide his
>> >>>> pleasure at the enormous influence he exerted as a "guru of the
>> >>>> right."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "I remember how proud he was when he mentioned in cross-examination
>> >>>> that his Zundelsite received hits from 400,000 people a month, and
>> >>>> that after his arrest, the number grew to 1.2-million people accessing
>> >>>> his website each month," Judge Blais said.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050225.wxzundel0225/BNStory/Front/
>> >>> LOL
>> >>>
>> >>> With due respect for the ideas of Judge Blais, but his judgement was a
>> >>> politically motivated diatribe and does not show at all how Canada was
>> >>> threatened by Mr. Zündel. Blais' ideas notwithstanding, the whole
>> >>> notion of a threat is utter horseshit.
>> >>
>> >> I don't suppose Judge Blais might have been a jew?
>> >
>> > Blais?  Are you completely off your rocker?
>> 
>> No. Can't you answer the question?
>
>I can't believe you could be so stupid as to ask it. 
>
>Here is his biography:
>
>Born December 30, 1948 in Berthier-sur-mer, Quebec. Education at
>Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatière College and Laval University Law School,
>1976. Elected to the House of Commons in 1984 and re-elected in 1988.
>Sworn to the Privy Council in1987. Appointed Parliamentary Secretary
>to the Minister of Agriculture, 1984; Parliamentary Secretary to the
>Deputy Prime Minister and President of the Privy Council, 1985;
>Minister of State (Agriculture), 1987; Solicitor General of Canada,
>1989; Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs and Minister of State
>(Agriculture),1990 and Minister of Justice and Attorney General for
>Canada, 1993. Partner, law firm in Montmagny, Quebec. Associate
>Partner, Langlois Gaudreau, Quebec City, 1993-98. Appointed Judge of
>the Federal Court of Canada, Trial Division and ex officio member of
>the Court of Appeal and Judge of the Court Martial Appeal Court of
>Canada, June 1998, and a Judicial Member of the Competition Tribunal
>in October 2002. Since July 2, 2003, the date of the coming into force
>of the Courts Administration Service Act, he is now Judge of the
>Federal Court. Address: Federal Court, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0H9.
>
>http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/portal/page/portal/fc_cf_en/Blais
>
>If you are really serious, and not just trolling, write him and ask
>him.

>From the dates, he sounds like a Tory patronage appointment. I'll have
to do some more background checking. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:02 EDT 2009
Article: 1993458 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:25:00 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/14/2009 9:34 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:04:19 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>>>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>> He was a threat to Jews.
>>>>> He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"? 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>>> to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>>>
>>> In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>>> labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>>> image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>>> propagation of anti-Semitic material. “Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>>> this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy,” the judge
>>> said.
>>>
>>> “Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>>> security, but also a threat to the international community of
>>> nations.”
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Judge Blais said Mr. Zundel's Toronto home was “a revolving door” for
>>> every member of a global white supremacist movement.
>>>
>>> He said Mr. Zundel deftly exploited Canada as a “safe haven,” and used
>>> his skills as a communicator and Internet pioneer to give new life to
>>> the white supremacy movement.
>>>
>>> Mr. Zundel, 65, has been living in solitary confinement in a Toronto
>>> jail since his arrest on May 1, 2003. In keeping with the security
>>> certificate process, much of the evidence at his hearing was heard in
>>> secret. 
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> He described Mr. Zundel as a man who, inspired by Hitler and
>>> latter-day Nazi sympathizers, set out to support the neo-Nazi movement
>>> in dozens of countries. “He also tried, by all means possible, to
>>> develop and maintain a global network of groups that have an interest
>>> in the same right-wing, extremist, neo-Nazi mindset,” Judge Blais
>>> said.
>>>
>>> Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the “Carlton Street
>>> bunker,” several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>>> new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>>> authorities for violating an immigration requirement. 
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Judge Blais said that what he heard in secret linked Mr. Zundel to
>>> leaders of the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations movement and many
>>> others who often resort to violence. 
>>>
>>> He said that if Mr. Zundel truly repudiated violence, he would have
>>> shunned these people.
>>>
>>> Judge Blais said that Mr. Zundel is an egotist who could not hide his
>>> pleasure at the enormous influence he exerted as a “guru of the
>>> right.”
>>>
>>> “I remember how proud he was when he mentioned in cross-examination
>>> that his Zundelsite received hits from 400,000 people a month, and
>>> that after his arrest, the number grew to 1.2-million people accessing
>>> his website each month,” Judge Blais said.
>>>
>>> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050225.wxzundel0225/BNStory/Front/
>> 
>> LOL
>
>It's not funny.  Quite scary in fact.
>
>> With due respect for the ideas of Judge Blais, but his judgement was a
>> politically motivated diatribe and does not show at all how Canada was
>> threatened by Mr. Zündel. Blais' ideas notwithstanding, the whole
>> notion of a threat is utter horseshit.
>
>I suggest you read it again.

I understood it the first time, gourd, but I reject the notion that
somebody's opinions present a threat to Canada. The whole concept is
simply ridiculous.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:02 EDT 2009
Article: 1993460 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:27:47 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/14/2009 9:38 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:07:04 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:15:25 -0500, in 
>>> , Johannes von
>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:05:36 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:59:10 -0500, in 
>>>>> <8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil
>>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in 
>>>>>>>>> , "Neil
>>>>>>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age
>>>>>>>>>>> yet to come, an Age long past) someone claiming to
>>>>>>>>>>> be Neil Harrington wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries
>>>>>>>>>>>> when any serious inquiry gets the researcher
>>>>>>>>>>>> thrown in prison?
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>>>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least
>>>>>>>>>> have thrown people in prison for nothing more than
>>>>>>>>>> questioning the heavily promoted fables of the
>>>>>>>>>> Holocaust. Were you really not aware of this, or are
>>>>>>>>>> you just in a deliberate and permanent state of 
>>>>>>>>>> denial?
>>>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask
>>>>>>>>> you to give me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>>>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure
>>>>>>>> it is to you, that it should require no additional
>>>>>>>> supporting evidence.
>>>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested
>>>>>>> for questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal
>>>>>>> to deny the Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what
>>>>>>> you are on about here.  I obviously cannot expect you to
>>>>>>> provide supporting evidence for something that never
>>>>>>> happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>>>>>> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case
>>>>>> can't possibly be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of
>>>>>> references -- here's just one:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>>>>>> 
>>>>> I am very familiar with the Zündel story, believe me.  That
>>>>> clipping does not say anything about Zündel being thrown in
>>>>> prison for denying or questioning the Holocaust, which is my
>>>>> point.
>>>> You don't have a point, Gordie, other than possibly the top of
>>>> your head.
>>> The statement of a man who has no argument,.
>> 
>> All I've seen from you is boiler-plate in cut-and-paste format from 
>> somewhere else. You don't have any arguments.
>
>Snide remarks about the point on the top of my head will not make my
>arguments untrue.

You don't have any arguments, logical or otherwise. You just borrow
boiler-plate text from propaganda sites such as Nizkor.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:03 EDT 2009
Article: 1993514 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:        <2qtep4p0drr73tugtqgkk8psrsfa960jkv@4ax.com> <56adnaA3u5fF_QXUnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com> 
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:59:02 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>news:56adnaA3u5fF_QXUnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:2qtep4p0drr73tugtqgkk8psrsfa960jkv@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> >>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>>>> >>> LOL
>>>> >>
>>>> >> He was a threat to Jews.
>>>> >
>>>> > He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>>>>
>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>>> to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>>>
>>> In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>>> labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>>> image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>>> propagation of anti-Semitic material. "Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>>> this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy," the judge
>>> said.
>>>
>>> "Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>>> security, but also a threat to the international community of
>>> nations."
>>
>> All that just by questioning the Holocaust fable?
>
>No.   You obviously know nothing of the violence that surrounded Zundel and 
>his followers, but others do.   I remember the street gangs who followed 
>him, choosing what ethnicity to beat up on a given day.

That is nonsense, Patrick. All the violence was from Zündel's
opponents. It was Zündel who needed the police to protect him against
crazies, not the other way around.

>
>They are gone now, with him.
>
>> As Gomer Pyle would say, "GOLLLEEEE!"
>>
>> [ . . . ]
>>
>>>
>>> Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the "Carlton Street
>>> bunker," several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>>> new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>>> authorities for violating an immigration requirement.
>>
>> Now that is HILARIOUS! We have about 12 million people in the U.S. 
>> "violating an immigration requirement," including the aunt of our new 
>> president who was ordered to leave the country about four years ago and is 
>> still here, living on welfare and in public housing.
>
>And who may well be deported now that she's been detected.
>
>> Millions of other illegal aliens are here sponging off our taxpayers, 
>> forming gangs and committing every conceivable type of crime.
>
>And they are smarter than Zundel, who sent his address to the immigration 
>service along with an admission of his illegal status.
>
>> All those, our immigration agencies are evidently helpless to do anything 
>> about. But they are able to promptly zero in on a man who came here 
>> legally,
>
>If by "promptly zero in" you mean stayed for *several years* and then was 
>stupid enough to send his address to the immigration agency.
>
>The thing is that your average illegal resident is smarter than Zundel.
>
>And yeah, you're right, that's hilarious.
>
>-pk
>
>
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:03 EDT 2009
Article: 1993515 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:55:45 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:buadnY1mqK0wPQXUnZ2dnUVZ_tHinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> news:56adnaA3u5fF_QXUnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:2qtep4p0drr73tugtqgkk8psrsfa960jkv@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> >>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all that.
>>>>> >>> LOL
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> He was a threat to Jews.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>>>>>
>>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a danger
>>>> to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has ruled.
>>>>
>>>> In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>>>> labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>>>> image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his global
>>>> propagation of anti-Semitic material. "Mr. Zundel seems to thrive in
>>>> this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and hypocrisy," the judge
>>>> said.
>>>>
>>>> "Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>>>> security, but also a threat to the international community of
>>>> nations."
>>>
>>> All that just by questioning the Holocaust fable?
>>
>> No.   You obviously know nothing of the violence that surrounded Zundel 
>> and his followers, but others do.   I remember the street gangs who 
>> followed him, choosing what ethnicity to beat up on a given day.
>
>Can you provide some news item(s) giving examples of this?

Like other things, Patrick has managed to get the story ass-backwards.
Zündel was threatened with assault, arson, and assassination by his
opponents. His house was burned down by his opponents. It wasn't
Zündel who was the source of the violence.

>
>>
>> They are gone now, with him.
>>
>>> As Gomer Pyle would say, "GOLLLEEEE!"
>>>
>>> [ . . . ]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Zundel left his Toronto residence, known as the "Carlton Street
>>>> bunker," several years ago, and moved to Tennessee to live with his
>>>> new wife.  However, he was seized and returned to Canada by U.S.
>>>> authorities for violating an immigration requirement.
>>>
>>> Now that is HILARIOUS! We have about 12 million people in the U.S. 
>>> "violating an immigration requirement," including the aunt of our new 
>>> president who was ordered to leave the country about four years ago and 
>>> is still here, living on welfare and in public housing.
>>
>> And who may well be deported now that she's been detected.
>
>She's been "detected" for quite some time now and is still here. I'll bet 
>you we can have this conversation a year from now and she'll still be here 
>then, too.
>
>>
>>> Millions of other illegal aliens are here sponging off our taxpayers, 
>>> forming gangs and committing every conceivable type of crime.
>>
>> And they are smarter than Zundel, who sent his address to the immigration 
>> service along with an admission of his illegal status.
>
>Doesn't that make it obvious that he intended no illegal action but was 
>trying his best to follow the law?
>
>>
>>> All those, our immigration agencies are evidently helpless to do anything 
>>> about. But they are able to promptly zero in on a man who came here 
>>> legally,
>>
>> If by "promptly zero in" you mean stayed for *several years* and then was 
>> stupid enough to send his address to the immigration agency.
>
>And again: Clearly this means he was doing what he could to follow the law.
>
>>
>> The thing is that your average illegal resident is smarter than Zundel.
>
>So you admire illegal aliens' criminal intent but have only contempt for 
>Zundel's efforts to remain lawful. That's interesting.
>
>This seems to be a pretty complete account of the whole thing:
>
>http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters/fromm2.htm
>
>It looks like a clear case of railroading to me. And the motive is . . . ? 
>And the people behind it are . . .  ?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:03 EDT 2009
Article: 1993518 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:43:20 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>Gord McFee wrote:
>> On 2/15/2009 1:34 PM, in
>> <56adnaA3u5fF_QXUnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Neil Harrington
>> wrote:
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:2qtep4p0drr73tugtqgkk8psrsfa960jkv@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:25:57 -0500, in
>>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>>>> A threat to Canada, was he?  Canada isn't as fragile as all
>>>>>>>>  that. LOL
>>>>>>> He was a threat to Jews.
>>>>>> He was a threat to Canada, Ben.
>>>>> In what way was he "a threat to Canada"?
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel can be deported immediately as a
>>>> danger to Canadian security, a Federal Court of Canada judge has
>>>> ruled.
>>>>
>>>> In a searing 64-page ruling yesterday, Mr. Justice Pierre Blais
>>>> labelled Mr. Zundel a racist hypocrite who has nurtured a pacifist
>>>>  image to conceal his support of right-wing extremism and his
>>>> global propagation of anti-Semitic material. "Mr. Zundel seems to
>>>> thrive in this troubled sea, surrounded by ambiguity and
>>>> hypocrisy," the judge said.
>>>>
>>>> "Mr. Zundel's activities are not only a threat to Canada's national
>>>>  security, but also a threat to the international community of
>>>> nations."
>>>
>>> All that just by questioning the Holocaust fable?
>>
>> No, all of that for the several reasons I pointed out that you are now
>> pretending you don't see.
>
>I've seen your list of "reasons" and just don't see anything substantial 
>there. It appears that the judge was acting in the interests of Holocaust 
>promotion organizations, and punishing Zundel for nothing but questioning 
>the orthodox story. If there's anything else, what *specifically* did Zundel 
>do that posed "a threat to Canada's national security"? I can see that he 
>may have posed a threat to the interests of Holocaust promoters, but how and 
>why would that equate to "Canada's national security"?
>
>He had lived there for 40 years and never been arrested for any crime, isn't 
>that so?

As far as I know, that is correct. His only offence was to challenge
the orthodox holocaust account.

>
>>
>>> As Gomer Pyle would say, "GOLLLEEEE!"
>>
>> Funny how as soon as we post evidence you can't deal with, the veneer
>> of civility disappears and the sneering begins.
>
>What "evidence"? Look at the list. There's nothing there but a lot of vague, 
>airy insinuations and dark allusions to something the judge heard "in 
>secret." What SPECIFICALLY is Zundel, who had lived there for 40 years 
>apparently without problems of any kind, being accused of?
>
>And where do you get that "veneer of civility disappears"? I'm still being 
>civil, Gord, as you know perfectly well.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:04 EDT 2009
Article: 1993519 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:51:59 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/15/2009 4:48 PM, in ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:27:47 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2/14/2009 9:38 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:07:04 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:15:25 -0500, in 
>>>>> , Johannes von 
>>>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:05:36 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:59:10 -0500, in 
>>>>>>> <8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil 
>>>>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>  news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in 
>>>>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Age yet to come, an Age long past) someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries when any serious inquiry gets the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> researcher thrown in prison?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at
>>>>>>>>>>>> least have thrown people in prison for nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>> more than questioning the heavily promoted fables
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and
>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent state of denial?
>>>>>>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would
>>>>>>>>>>> ask you to give me one example.  With supporting
>>>>>>>>>>> evidence.
>>>>>>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm
>>>>>>>>>> sure it is to you, that it should require no
>>>>>>>>>> additional supporting evidence.
>>>>>>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even
>>>>>>>>> arrested for questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is
>>>>>>>>> not illegal to deny the Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am
>>>>>>>>> not sure what you are on about here.  I obviously
>>>>>>>>> cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for
>>>>>>>>> something that never happened, so I am forced to put my
>>>>>>>>> question again.
>>>>>>>> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The
>>>>>>>> case can't possibly be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up
>>>>>>>> loads of references -- here's just one:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am very familiar with the Zündel story, believe me.  That
>>>>>>>  clipping does not say anything about Zündel being thrown
>>>>>>> in prison for denying or questioning the Holocaust, which
>>>>>>> is my point.
>>>>>> You don't have a point, Gordie, other than possibly the top
>>>>>> of your head.
>>>>> The statement of a man who has no argument,.
>>>> All I've seen from you is boiler-plate in cut-and-paste format
>>>> from somewhere else. You don't have any arguments.
>>> Snide remarks about the point on the top of my head will not make
>>> my arguments untrue.
>> 
>> You don't have any arguments, logical or otherwise.
>
>I do.  You just cannot deal with them.

LOL

It really is rather difficult to deal with things that don't exist.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:04 EDT 2009
Article: 1993520 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:52:12 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>news:8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in 
>>>>> , "Neil Harrington" 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come,
>>>>>>> an Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote in 
>>>>>>> message <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>> denial?
>>>>>
>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>>>>
>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>>>
>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.  I
>>> obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for something
>>> that never happened, so I am forced to put my question again.
>>
>> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't possibly 
>> be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references -- here's just 
>> one:
>>
>> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>
>That has nothing to do with Holocaust denial.

Nobody, including the Americans, would have bothered him EXCEPT for
the fact that he had offended the holocaust industry by asking
uncomfortable questions. His legal problems had everything to do with
his published opinions.






>   Zundel was jailed because he 
>appeared at the Canadian border - escorted by US immigration officers who 
>were expelling him for being illegally resident - and claimed *refugee 
>status* rather than landed immigrant status.
>
>It shouldn't be news to you
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:04 EDT 2009
Article: 1993522 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jew Subjectivism Vs Western Truth: BISHOP WANTS TO EXAMINE GAS CHAMBER EVIDENCE
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:58:28 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/15/2009 2:16 PM, in <49986a2c@news.x-privat.org>, Zulu wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee escribió:
>>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:45:45 +1000, in
>>> , "Karl"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:hldcp41s0uom3b20uhmc324s3ktsqfsekl@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:50:45 -0600, in
>>>>> , Sara Salzman
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <6vWdnX0QHNi_CQ3UnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@supernews.com>,
>>>>>>  "Patrick Keenan"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I'll Always Be 09-02-09"  wrote in 
>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>> news:Xns9BAD7BB57FB8ATheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>>>> jewbane@snakebite.com wrote in 
>>>>>>>> news:e6da5259-fbe1-4d0f-bec3-358caca1b009
>>>>>>>> @q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A bishop recently rehabilitated by Pope Benedict XVI said he want to
>>>>>>>>> "examine the evidence" of the Holocaust before possibly recanting 
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> statement that no Jews died in Nazi gas chambers, a German
>>>>>>>>> newsmagazine reported.
>>>>>>>> So what we have here is the bishop admitting that he made the 
>>>>>>>> statement
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> no Jews died in nazi gas chambers without examining the evidence in 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's what you call good ole christian research
>>>>>>> Not only that, but he refuses to actually visit Auschwitz, despite 
>>>>>>> offers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One wonders what else he will refuse to review.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -pk
>>>>>> Well, he has claimed that he "ordered" a copt of Pressac's book, which
>>>>>> isn't in print anymore.
>>>>> Well, he can get in Argentina (see entry 6 at the link below).
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Jean-Claude+Pressac&sts=t&x=12&y=10
>>>>>
>>>>> Only $160, a small price to pay to search for the truth.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides, if he wanted to read Pressac in its
>>>>>> entirely, all he has to do is go to THHP, where the entire book is
>>>>>> online with the blessing of its publisher.
>>>>> Yes, it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/
>>>> Pressac's work has largely been debunked.
>>> By whom?
>> 
>> Germar Rudolf
>> 
>> The Rudolf Report
>> Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects
>> of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz
>> 
>> http://www.germarrudolf.com/work/trr/index.html
>> 
>> Herbert Verbeke,
>> Auschwitz: Plain Facts. A Response to Jean-Claude Pressac
>> 
>> http://vho.org/dl/ENG/apf.pdf
>
>Neither of those denier tracts debunks Pressac one iota.

Pressac's stuff is a holocaust™ industry tract, so what is your point?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:05 EDT 2009
Article: 1993524 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber and the ongoing madness at the Institute for Historical Review
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:44:14 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in message 
>news:88dc9bd0-2ba4-4be1-8a11-a799e98e99d4@f29g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 15, 5:46 pm, "Patrick Keenan"  wrote:
>> "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote in 
>> messagenews:349ce8ad-0f02-45a4-a827-4ff77665614c@m22g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 15, 1:11 pm, Gord McFee  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:54:17 -0800 (PST), in
>> > ,
>> > "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>
>> > [...]
>>
>> > > Thanks for bringing the Freddie Berg site to my attention Sara. It is
>> > > an information packed site and should increase my knowledge of allied
>> > > crimes committed during WWII.
>>
>> > Gads, you must be desperate to get information from that moron.
>>
>> > > As for the gassings of the Jews; I just
>> > > don't know. There is too much controversy over that topic to dismiss
>> > > revisionists outright. I still remain neutral though; who ya gonna
>> > > believe?
>> > > Note that I had to put the last statement in in order to avoid haters
>> > > (CHRC) coming after me had I not clarified my position in public.
>> > > It's illegal to deny the holocaust in Canada.(that statement should
>> > > provoke stimulating argument from the mickey vay camp)
>>
>> > If it is illegal, quote the law that says so. You won't because there
>> > is no such law.
>>
>> Of course there are no laws that say you can't deny the holocaust.
>> However, if you offend a certain chosen group, it's in front of the
>> CHRC with you. So, it's illegal to deny the holocaust, if someone
>> finds your stance offensive. But you knew that.
>> ==================
>>
>> No, in fact, I don't know that it's illegal to deny the Holocaust in 
>> Canada.
>> Other things *are* illegal, but Holocaust denial isn't and has never been
>> illegal in Canada. This is why people like Mr. Knoll have never faced
>> "Holocaust denial" charges.
>>
>> It's beyond easy for you to prove your claim. All you need to do is
>> publish the section of the Criminal Code that outlaws it.
>>
>> It's all online, in both official languages, so.... it's up to you. Either
>> you can do it, or you can't.
>>
>> I happen to know that you can't, because there is no such law.
>>
>
>You idiot.  I just posted above how you can be brought in front of the
>CHRC for holoDen.  I never said it was in the crimCode bozo.
>
>==========================
>
>Then show one instance of anyone having been brought up before the CHRC 
>specifically for Holocaust denial.

The holocaust remembrance committee of Toronto tried to use the
ancient "false news" legislation against Zündel but failed, so they
tried the immigration route.

>
>And again, you can't, because those who have been before the CHRC have been 
>there for *other* things.
>
>
>
>> But go ahead - prove me wrong.
>>
>> -pk
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:05 EDT 2009
Article: 1993525 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber and the ongoing madness at the Institute for  Historical Review
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:01:14 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/15/2009 3:20 PM, in
><349ce8ad-0f02-45a4-a827-4ff77665614c@m22g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>
>> On Feb 15, 1:11 pm, Gord McFee  wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:54:17 -0800 (PST), in 
>>> ,
>>>  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for bringing the Freddie Berg site to my attention Sara.
>>>> It is an information packed site and should increase my knowledge
>>>> of allied crimes committed during WWII.
>>> Gads, you must be desperate to get information from that moron.
>>> 
>>>> As for the gassings of the Jews; I just don't know.  There is too
>>>> much controversy over that topic to dismiss revisionists
>>>> outright.  I still remain neutral though; who ya gonna believe? 
>>>> Note that I had to put the last statement in in order to avoid
>>>> haters (CHRC) coming after me had I not clarified my position in
>>>> public. It's illegal to deny the holocaust in Canada.(that
>>>> statement should provoke stimulating argument from the mickey vay
>>>> camp)
> >>
>>> If it is illegal, quote the law that says so.  You won't because
>>> there is no such law.
>>> 
>> Of course there are no laws that say you can't deny the holocaust. 
>
>That's more like it.  The truth will set you free.

Actually, in lots of countries, the truth will get you a prison term.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:05 EDT 2009
Article: 1993526 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber and the ongoing madness at the Institute for  Historical Review
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:22:08 -0800 (PST), "Bent Attorney Esq."
 wrote:

>On Feb 15, 9:01 pm, Gord McFee  wrote:
>> On 2/15/2009 3:20 PM, in
>> <349ce8ad-0f02-45a4-a827-4ff776656...@m22g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>> > On Feb 15, 1:11 pm, Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:54:17 -0800 (PST), in
>> >> ,
>> >>  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>
>> >> [...]
>>
>> >>> Thanks for bringing the Freddie Berg site to my attention Sara.
>> >>> It is an information packed site and should increase my knowledge
>> >>> of allied crimes committed during WWII.
>> >> Gads, you must be desperate to get information from that moron.
>>
>> >>> As for the gassings of the Jews; I just don't know.  There is too
>> >>> much controversy over that topic to dismiss revisionists
>> >>> outright.  I still remain neutral though; who ya gonna believe?
>> >>> Note that I had to put the last statement in in order to avoid
>> >>> haters (CHRC) coming after me had I not clarified my position in
>> >>> public. It's illegal to deny the holocaust in Canada.(that
>> >>> statement should provoke stimulating argument from the mickey vay
>> >>> camp)
>>
>> >> If it is illegal, quote the law that says so.  You won't because
>> >> there is no such law.
>>
>> > Of course there are no laws that say you can't deny the holocaust.
>>
>> That's more like it.  The truth will set you free.
>>
>
>That's pretty dishonest snipping the rest of my post.  As soon as you
>find the truth, it will set you free.

Dishonesty is Gord's basic method of operation.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:06 EDT 2009
Article: 1993609 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:04:04 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>Patrick Keenan wrote:
>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message
>> news:8eidnZl63b7d4hLUnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:SJFjl.48954$sp1.34595@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>> On 2/5/2009 9:31 PM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:kq5no4h5qahe7vv7k2r87rfootj003dk14@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:32:06 -0500, in
>>>>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:n8hko45h4dbo79cd0ntv9m35m4445qmui8@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some, (an Age yet to come,
>>>>>>>> an Age long past) someone claiming to be Neil Harrington wrote
>>>>>>>> in message <8PWdnUplted2kxfUnZ2dnUVZ_g6WnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How can anyone "do research" in those countries when any
>>>>>>>>> serious inquiry gets the researcher thrown in prison?
>>>>>>>> There is no such country and no such lies.
>>>>>>> Germany. Austria. Canada. Those countries at least have thrown
>>>>>>> people in prison for nothing more than questioning the heavily
>>>>>>> promoted fables of the Holocaust. Were you really not aware of
>>>>>>> this, or are you just in a deliberate and permanent state of
>>>>>>> denial?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Canada hasn't.  If you claim the contrary, I would ask you to give
>>>>>> me one example.  With supporting evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ernst Zundel. The case is well enough known, and I'm sure it is to
>>>>> you, that it should require no additional supporting evidence.
>>>>
>>>> Ernst Zündel was never thrown into prison, or even arrested for
>>>> questioning the Holocaust.  In fact, it is not illegal to deny the
>>>> Holocaust in Canada.  So, I am not sure what you are on about here.
>>>> I obviously cannot expect you to provide supporting evidence for
>>>> something that never happened, so I am forced to put my question
>>>> again.
>>>
>>> I didn't expect to be questioned on this, frankly. The case can't
>>> possibly be unfamiliar to you. Google turns up loads of references
>>> -- here's just one:
>>>
>>> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1101333207257_43/?hub=Canada
>>
>> That has nothing to do with Holocaust denial.
>
>The first words after the dateline are "Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel" --  
>and you claim it "has nothing to do with Holocaust denial"? The Canadian 
>Press obviously thought it did.
>
>
>> It doesn't come
>> remotely close to supporting your assertion that Zundel was ever
>> jailed or even arrested for questioning the Holocaust.
>
>Indeed, it doesn't provide much information at all as to why he was 
>arrested. The article says, "Zundel is being held under a rarely-used 
>security certificate, which classifies him as a risk to Canadian security 
>based on secret evidence which Blais will use to decide whether the 
>certificate is reasonable."
>
>So he was being held for reasons that were (and evidently still are) secret, 
>purely on Justice Blais's say-so, and evidently Blais's secret reasons 
>cannot be looked at or questioned.
>
>There's no habeas corpus in Canada? 

The Canadian authorities were stampeded into Bushism supposedly to
guard against "terrorism". Even American anti-terrorist legislation
tramples over human rights big time. Anti-terrorism legislation in
both countries pretty much suspends most of the human rights
provisions of their respective constitutions. It seems that the remedy
to terrorism is itself terrorism.


>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:06 EDT 2009
Article: 1993611 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber and the ongoing madness at the Institute for  Historical Review
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:01:33 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:3pmhp45iomknns13not6ekcdns8io4ie66@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:01:14 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2/15/2009 3:20 PM, in
>>><349ce8ad-0f02-45a4-a827-4ff77665614c@m22g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>>>Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 1:11 pm, Gord McFee  wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:54:17 -0800 (PST), in
>>>>> ,
>>>>>  "Bent Attorney Esq."  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for bringing the Freddie Berg site to my attention Sara.
>>>>>> It is an information packed site and should increase my knowledge
>>>>>> of allied crimes committed during WWII.
>>>>> Gads, you must be desperate to get information from that moron.
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the gassings of the Jews; I just don't know.  There is too
>>>>>> much controversy over that topic to dismiss revisionists
>>>>>> outright.  I still remain neutral though; who ya gonna believe?
>>>>>> Note that I had to put the last statement in in order to avoid
>>>>>> haters (CHRC) coming after me had I not clarified my position in
>>>>>> public. It's illegal to deny the holocaust in Canada.(that
>>>>>> statement should provoke stimulating argument from the mickey vay
>>>>>> camp)
>>> >>
>>>>> If it is illegal, quote the law that says so.  You won't because
>>>>> there is no such law.
>>>>>
>>>> Of course there are no laws that say you can't deny the holocaust.
>>>
>>>That's more like it.  The truth will set you free.
>>
>> Actually, in lots of countries, the truth will get you a prison term.
>
>When it comes to the Holocaust(tm), the truth is no defence. I've seen that 
>written ;-)

As a German judge pointed out to a defendant in a recent "denial"
trial, it doesn't matter whether the story is true or not. The
offence, under German legislation, is to publish statements suggesting
that the story may have flaws or inaccuracies. The story could be
totally false, but it would still be an offence to actually say so.


>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:06 EDT 2009
Article: 1993612 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank guardian reaches 100
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:29:02 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:eskgp49tu65tbjpvp61je85ovp5bgrk7ll@4ax.com...
>> The last surviving member of the group who helped hide the Jewish girl
>> Anne Frank and her family from the Nazis in Amsterdam has turned 100
>> years old.
>
>There'll be more. There always are.
>
>Being a Holocaust(tm) "survivor" is a growth industry.

The number of "survivors" seems to be ballooning from decade to
decade. One would have thought that they would gradually die off.

>
>
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7891056.stm
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:07 EDT 2009
Article: 1993716 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:32:44 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>Patrick Keenan escribió:
>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>> news:npGdnad3S4AH9QXUnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:dslgp4lq1a2t8qthndq474rsf8ejr4s5aa@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:59:55 +1000, in
>>>> , "B. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:UXLll.266248$NN4.153566@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> On 2/14/2009 10:05 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I don't suppose Judge Blais might have been a jew?
>>>>>> Blais?  Are you completely off your rocker?
>>>>> No. Can't you answer the question?
>>>> I can't believe you could be so stupid as to ask it.
>>> Canada has the world's fourth largest Jewish population, Gord. Considering 
>>> the large percentage of Jews who enter the fields of law and/or politics, 
>>> the question does not seem unreasonable.
>>>
>>> The biography you've posted doesn't say whether he's a Jew or not. Are you 
>>> assuming he's not a Jew because he doesn't have a Jewish-sounding name? 
>>> Most of the Jews I know do not either. In my town there are Jews named 
>>> Gordon, Palmer, Richmond, Fields . . . those are just a few I know 
>>> personally.
>> 
>> Apparently you know nothing of Canada, either.   He's from Quebec, which is 
>> heavily and predominantly Roman Catholic, went to Catholic schools.   His 
>> name is French.
>
>I don't know how it is in Quebec, however, in France, it is common to have jews 
>studying in catholic school.
>The reason is simple. In France, these are "private schools" reserved generally to 
>the children of people who don't want them mixed with other children at public schools.
>In opposite to public schools which are free, catholic schools demand an important 
>financial charge which restringes their access to the "elite" or who pretends to be.
>
>There is an exception in Alsace where catholic schools are mostly public schools due 
>to a specific statute. When was established in France the 1905 Act which formalized 
>the separation between the church and the state, Alsace was under German custody 
>since the 1870's war. For mysterious reasons the situation is not totally normalized 
>in that region despite it became French after W.W.I.

Alsace has been German since AD 800 and was ripped off the first time
by Louis XIV around AD 1690. All the town names are German and the
people still speak German. It has little to do with the fact that the
area was recovered from France between 1871 and 1918 and again from
1939 to 1945. The German characteristic is much older than that.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:07 EDT 2009
Article: 1994189 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>         in message :
>>
>>
>>>The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>
>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>
>It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or *26 
>per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the high 
>figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing campaign.
>
>This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even able, 
>to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200 miles per 
>month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so these traffic 
>fatalities had to be largely military staff.

Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
smaller population than the UK.

Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
unusual at all.

>
>http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2366981.0.Road_accident_deaths_at_50year_low.php
>
>In 2004, at a time when there were many more cars and people, the daily 
>death toll was around 8, or 3221 for the year; in 1992 around 9.4, or 3,431 
>for the year - these figures include mopeds and scooters as well as cars and 
>lorrys.
>
>However, "Mr. Ebersdorf" says that he's claiming a six-year period with a 
>total exceeding 60,000 deaths from bombings is less than the traffic 
>fatalities, and he's wrong.
>
>We know from British statistics that the *highest* number of annual traffic 
>fatalities was 9,149 in 1941, or 26 per day, so using that figure, the 
>maximum total for a six-year period is *less* than 54,894 deaths.
>
>"Mr. Ebersdorf" is probably taking his excessive and unsupported 30 deaths 
>per day, multiplying it by 365 and then 6 to get 65,700.   But as we have 
>seen, the 30 per day average was never reached on an annual basis, so the 
>calculation provided by "Mr. Ebersdorf" provides an incorrect number,  in 
>fact about  10,106 too high.    The real figure, with the exception below, 
>is around 83% of what "Mr. Ebersdorf" claims.
>
>In the schools I went to, we were taught that 54 is less than 60, and that 
>83% is not 100%.    In a phrase, less is not more.
>
>Of course, there is another rather important detail "Mr. Ebersdorf" does not 
>mention, and I'm not sure I wonder why he doesn't.   I suspect he just 
>doesn't understand his sources, not that he is deliberately misrepresenting 
>them as others might.   He may be using third hand or worse sources, has 
>just taken somebody's word that the numbers are accurate, and didn't check 
>for himself.
>
>"Mr. Ebersdorf" claims a total death toll from the bombing campaign of 
>approximately 60,000.
>
>In fact, it's between 62,000 and 64,000 - but wait!  There's more! And it 
>moves the results even farther apart!
>
>That 62,000 to 64,000 figure is *only civilians*, not necessarily only from 
>bombings,  and does not include military personnel killed on home soil - and 
>there had to be some, since military bases would be primary bombing targets 
>and there were military staff working in the cities being bombed.    So we 
>can see clearly that this higher number is still too low to be a total 
>number of casualties from bombings, for all groups.
>
>In addition, the traffic fatalities include *all* groups, though 
>particularly after 1942, vehicles were considerably less likely to be driven 
>by civilians.
>
>So to compare figures properly, "Mr. Ebersdorf" needs to get to the raw 
>original UK Government statistics and separate the civilian from the 
>military personnel traffic fatalities, and also present the number of 
>military personnel killed *in England* during the war by German bombs.
>
>Otherwise, his comparisons just don't work, quite aside from the fact that 
>the figures he's used are not correct.
>
>It might be interesting to include the figures for road accidents directly 
>caused by falling bombs, separating civilian and  military fatalities.
>
>I wonder if "Mr. Ebersdorf" will be able to supply us with the correct and 
>appropriate figures.
>
>Hope this helps.
>-pk
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:08 EDT 2009
Article: 1994193 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: French Holocaust role recognised
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:58:42 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"B. Cramer"  schreef in bericht 
>news:FZGdnQK9U_adwAfUnZ2dnVY3goudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:6vtkdeFli0doU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> France's highest court has recognised the state's "responsibility" for 
>>> the deportation of Jews in World War II.
>>>
>>> The Council of State said the state had permitted or facilitated 
>>> deportations that led to anti-Semitic persecution without being coerced 
>>> by the occupiers.
>>>
>>> But the council also found reparations had since been made "as much as 
>>> was possible, for all the losses suffered".
>>>
>>> Correspondents say the ruling is the clearest such recognition of the 
>>> French state's role in the Holocaust.
>>>
>>> Story from BBC NEWS:
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...pe/7893127.stm
>>
>> Oy vey. More reparations they will be claiming already.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>jews hAVE BEEN TOLD BY THE FRENCH THAT THEY HAVE HAD ENOUGH COMPENSATION AND 
>THEREFORE SHOULD STOP WHINING ABOUT MONEY 

The French clearly have more guts than the poor Germans who just pay
and pay and pay, all the while in the full knowledge that they are
being defrauded.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:08 EDT 2009
Article: 1994329 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:35:24 +0100, Zulu
 wrote:

>I'll Always Be 18-02-09 escribió:
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>> news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com: 
>> 
>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>>>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>>>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>> It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or
>>>> *26 per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the
>>>> high figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing
>>>> campaign. 
>>>>
>>>> This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>> able, to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200
>>>> miles per month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so
>>>> these traffic fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>
>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>> unusual at all.
>>>
>> 
>> And yet once again you provide no proof for these figures. How unusual
>
>
>Comparison in Europe [5],[6]
>
>Countries.......Number of deaths within 30 days
>
>Year........... 2001....2002....2003....2004....2005....2006
>
>France..........8 160...7 654...6 059...5 530...5 318...4 703
>Germany.........6 977...6 842...6 600...5 842...5 361...5 094
>Poland..........5 534...5 827...5 640...5 712...5 444 	
>Spain...........5 517...5 347...5 394...4 741...4 442 	
>UK..............3 598...3 431...3 658...3 368...3 201 	
>Netherlands.......993.....987...1 028.....804.....817 	
>
>In the EC, in 2005, 41,600 peoples have died in road accidents,
>1.39 millions were injured.
>
>Dans l'Union européenne, en 2005, 41 600 personnes sont mortes dans des accidents de 
>la circulation, 1,9 million ont été blessées[7].
>
>http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_routi%C3%A8re

I guess the magazine article I had read overestimated the death
figures for Germany. According to your tables, the Poles must be
exceptionally poor drivers, since they have a significantly smaller
population than Germany and yet almost the same number of traffic
deaths.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:08 EDT 2009
Article: 1994330 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:16:20 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Roger"  wrote in message
>>>news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>         in message :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>>>thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>>>fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>
>>>It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or *26
>>>per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the high
>>>figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing campaign.
>>>
>>>This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even 
>>>able,
>>>to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200 miles per
>>>month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so these 
>>>traffic
>>>fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>
>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>> smaller population than the UK.
>>
>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>> unusual at all.
>
>Keenan loves plucking figures from his ample, saggy old arse and twisting, 
>distorting and beating them up until the give up the meaning he needs.
>
>He's a master at the sleight of hand the yids invented.

So I have noticed. 

>
>
>>
>>>
>>>http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2366981.0.Road_accident_deaths_at_50year_low.php
>>>
>>>In 2004, at a time when there were many more cars and people, the daily
>>>death toll was around 8, or 3221 for the year; in 1992 around 9.4, or 
>>>3,431
>>>for the year - these figures include mopeds and scooters as well as cars 
>>>and
>>>lorrys.
>>>
>>>However, "Mr. Ebersdorf" says that he's claiming a six-year period with a
>>>total exceeding 60,000 deaths from bombings is less than the traffic
>>>fatalities, and he's wrong.
>>>
>>>We know from British statistics that the *highest* number of annual 
>>>traffic
>>>fatalities was 9,149 in 1941, or 26 per day, so using that figure, the
>>>maximum total for a six-year period is *less* than 54,894 deaths.
>>>
>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" is probably taking his excessive and unsupported 30 deaths
>>>per day, multiplying it by 365 and then 6 to get 65,700.   But as we have
>>>seen, the 30 per day average was never reached on an annual basis, so the
>>>calculation provided by "Mr. Ebersdorf" provides an incorrect number,  in
>>>fact about  10,106 too high.    The real figure, with the exception below,
>>>is around 83% of what "Mr. Ebersdorf" claims.
>>>
>>>In the schools I went to, we were taught that 54 is less than 60, and that
>>>83% is not 100%.    In a phrase, less is not more.
>>>
>>>Of course, there is another rather important detail "Mr. Ebersdorf" does 
>>>not
>>>mention, and I'm not sure I wonder why he doesn't.   I suspect he just
>>>doesn't understand his sources, not that he is deliberately 
>>>misrepresenting
>>>them as others might.   He may be using third hand or worse sources, has
>>>just taken somebody's word that the numbers are accurate, and didn't check
>>>for himself.
>>>
>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" claims a total death toll from the bombing campaign of
>>>approximately 60,000.
>>>
>>>In fact, it's between 62,000 and 64,000 - but wait!  There's more! And it
>>>moves the results even farther apart!
>>>
>>>That 62,000 to 64,000 figure is *only civilians*, not necessarily only 
>>>from
>>>bombings,  and does not include military personnel killed on home soil - 
>>>and
>>>there had to be some, since military bases would be primary bombing 
>>>targets
>>>and there were military staff working in the cities being bombed.    So we
>>>can see clearly that this higher number is still too low to be a total
>>>number of casualties from bombings, for all groups.
>>>
>>>In addition, the traffic fatalities include *all* groups, though
>>>particularly after 1942, vehicles were considerably less likely to be 
>>>driven
>>>by civilians.
>>>
>>>So to compare figures properly, "Mr. Ebersdorf" needs to get to the raw
>>>original UK Government statistics and separate the civilian from the
>>>military personnel traffic fatalities, and also present the number of
>>>military personnel killed *in England* during the war by German bombs.
>>>
>>>Otherwise, his comparisons just don't work, quite aside from the fact that
>>>the figures he's used are not correct.
>>>
>>>It might be interesting to include the figures for road accidents directly
>>>caused by falling bombs, separating civilian and  military fatalities.
>>>
>>>I wonder if "Mr. Ebersdorf" will be able to supply us with the correct and
>>>appropriate figures.
>>>
>>>Hope this helps.
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:09 EDT 2009
Article: 1994389 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:05:37 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Zulu"  wrote in message 
>news:499dc943@news.x-privat.org...
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf escribió:
>>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:35:24 +0100, Zulu
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll Always Be 18-02-09 escribió:
>>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>>>>> news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com:
>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 
>>>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, 
>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>>>>> It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> *26 per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> high figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing
>>>>>>> campaign.
>>>>>>> This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>>>>> able, to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200
>>>>>>> miles per month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, 
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> these traffic fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>>>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>>>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>>>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>>>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>>>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>>>>> unusual at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And yet once again you provide no proof for these figures. How unusual
>>>>
>>>> Comparison in Europe [5],[6]
>>>>
>>>> Countries.......Number of deaths within 30 days
>>>>
>>>> Year........... 2001....2002....2003....2004....2005....2006
>>>>
>>>> France..........8 160...7 654...6 059...5 530...5 318...4 703
>>>> Germany.........6 977...6 842...6 600...5 842...5 361...5 094
>>>> Poland..........5 534...5 827...5 640...5 712...5 444 Spain...........5 
>>>> 517...5 347...5 394...4 741...4 442 UK..............3 598...3 431...3 
>>>> 658...3 368...3 201 Netherlands.......993.....987...1 
>>>> 028.....804.....817
>>>> In the EC, in 2005, 41,600 peoples have died in road accidents,
>>>> 1.39 millions were injured.
>>>>
>>>> Dans l'Union européenne, en 2005, 41 600 personnes sont mortes dans des 
>>>> accidents de la circulation, 1,9 million ont été blessées[7].
>>>>
>>>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_routi%C3%A8re
>>>
>>> I guess the magazine article I had read overestimated the death
>>> figures for Germany. According to your tables, the Poles must be
>>> exceptionally poor drivers, since they have a significantly smaller
>>> population than Germany and yet almost the same number of traffic
>>> deaths.
>>
>> According with the same article, the Russians have the world's record of 
>> deaths in road accidents. Surely some collateral effect of the Vodka, like 
>> in Poland.
>>
>> "In 2002 and 2003, 1.2 millions of deaths on the road and 50 millions 
>> wounded were numbered in the world for an estimated cost of 407 billions 
>> of Euros [$315,5 billions].
>> The record of the number of accidents per vehicle is detained by Russia 
>> with 12 accidents per 10,000 cars and 35,000 death per year. In China 
>> 10,000 deaths were counted for the year 2005."
>>
>> "En 2002 et en 2003, on a dénombré par an dans le monde 1,2 million de 
>> morts sur la route et 50 millions de blessés, pour un coût estimé à 407 
>> milliards d'euros[1],[2]. Le record du nombre d'accident par véhicule est 
>> détenu par la Russie avec 12 accidents pour 10 000 voitures et 35 000 
>> morts par an[3]. En Chine, ce sont 100 000 morts qui ont été recensés pour 
>> l'année 2005[4]."
>>
>>
>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_routi%C3%A8re
>
>That's not relevant to the claims made by "Mr. Ebersdorf", is it?
>
>Have you even noticed that his figures are clearly not accurate, or is 
>veracity something that only concerns you when the numbers are part of 
>mainstream Holocaust history?

Oh fuck off already, "Keenan". I have better things to do with
computer storage capacity than to fill it with boiler plate text for
use when conversing with cretins such as yourself. As far as British
bombing deaths go, they are a whole order of magnitude smaller than
German bombing deaths, despite the fact that the Brits operated with
almost no protection. It follows that the allies made civilians in
Germany the target of their efforts, while the German air force tended
to attack industrial and militaryl targets and some civilians were
unfortunate "collateral damage" as Americans like to say.

>
>-pk
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:09 EDT 2009
Article: 1994390 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:48:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Zulu"  wrote in message 
>news:499d6e3d@news.x-privat.org...
>> I'll Always Be 18-02-09 escribió:
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>>> news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com:
>>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>>>>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>>>>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>>> It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or
>>>>> *26 per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the
>>>>> high figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing
>>>>> campaign.
>>>>> This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>>> able, to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200
>>>>> miles per month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so
>>>>> these traffic fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>>> unusual at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And yet once again you provide no proof for these figures. How unusual
>>
>>
>> Comparison in Europe [5],[6]
>>
>> Countries.......Number of deaths within 30 days
>>
>> Year........... 2001....2002....2003....2004....2005....2006
>>
>> France..........8 160...7 654...6 059...5 530...5 318...4 703
>> Germany.........6 977...6 842...6 600...5 842...5 361...5 094
>> Poland..........5 534...5 827...5 640...5 712...5 444 Spain...........5 
>> 517...5 347...5 394...4 741...4 442 UK..............3 598...3 431...3 
>> 658...3 368...3 201 Netherlands.......993.....987...1 028.....804.....817
>> In the EC, in 2005, 41,600 peoples have died in road accidents,
>> 1.39 millions were injured.
>>
>> Dans l'Union européenne, en 2005, 41 600 personnes sont mortes dans des 
>> accidents de la circulation, 1,9 million ont été blessées[7].
>>
>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_routi%C3%A8re
>
>Regarless, these numbers are not relevant to the claims made by "Mr. 
>Ebersdorf", or to the fact that he seems unable to comprehend that 54 is 
>actually less than 60.

The fact remains that the bombing totals are of the same order of
magnitude as the traffic toll, whereas the allied bombing victims in
Germany dramatically outnumber traffic victims, despite having been
dramatically better protected than their British counterparts.

Your silly quibbling over minor differences in numbers is merely to
derail the discussion. That is why you dishonestly mention Coventry
(death toll under 400) and Hamburg (death toll 55,000) as if the
events were comparable. They are not.

>
>Now, I suspect that if you found a mainstream Holocaust source that played 
>as loosely with figures as "Mr. Ebersdorf" plainly does, you'd be crying 
>that it discounts all of recorded history.
>
>Interesting that your attitude is rather different here.
>
>-pk
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:10 EDT 2009
Article: 1994391 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:45:12 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:55grp4hrvkgom1tr21gpkj2fetrfo9svm2@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:16:20 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Roger"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 60
>>>>>>>thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>>>>>fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>>>
>>>>>It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or 
>>>>>*26
>>>>>per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the high
>>>>>figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing 
>>>>>campaign.
>>>>>
>>>>>This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>>>able,
>>>>>to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200 miles per
>>>>>month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so these
>>>>>traffic
>>>>>fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>>>
>>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>>> unusual at all.
>>>
>>>Keenan loves plucking figures from his ample, saggy old arse and twisting,
>>>distorting and beating them up until the give up the meaning he needs.
>>>
>>>He's a master at the sleight of hand the yids invented.
>>
>> So I have noticed. 
>
>And you're still unable to either explain where you got your numbers from, 
>or why they are so different from official UK figures.
>
>It's becoming clear that you just don't understand what it is you pretend to 
>write about.

LOL, "Keenan", you're one to complain about comprehension. The British
bombing totals were of the same order of magnitude as the traffic
totals, whereas German victims of allied bombings dramatically
exceeded the typical traffic totals. Obviously the two bombing
campaigns had radically different objectives.

>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2366981.0.Road_accident_deaths_at_50year_low.php
>>>>>
>>>>>In 2004, at a time when there were many more cars and people, the daily
>>>>>death toll was around 8, or 3221 for the year; in 1992 around 9.4, or
>>>>>3,431
>>>>>for the year - these figures include mopeds and scooters as well as cars
>>>>>and
>>>>>lorrys.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, "Mr. Ebersdorf" says that he's claiming a six-year period with 
>>>>>a
>>>>>total exceeding 60,000 deaths from bombings is less than the traffic
>>>>>fatalities, and he's wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>We know from British statistics that the *highest* number of annual
>>>>>traffic
>>>>>fatalities was 9,149 in 1941, or 26 per day, so using that figure, the
>>>>>maximum total for a six-year period is *less* than 54,894 deaths.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" is probably taking his excessive and unsupported 30 
>>>>>deaths
>>>>>per day, multiplying it by 365 and then 6 to get 65,700.   But as we 
>>>>>have
>>>>>seen, the 30 per day average was never reached on an annual basis, so 
>>>>>the
>>>>>calculation provided by "Mr. Ebersdorf" provides an incorrect number, 
>>>>>in
>>>>>fact about  10,106 too high.    The real figure, with the exception 
>>>>>below,
>>>>>is around 83% of what "Mr. Ebersdorf" claims.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the schools I went to, we were taught that 54 is less than 60, and 
>>>>>that
>>>>>83% is not 100%.    In a phrase, less is not more.
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course, there is another rather important detail "Mr. Ebersdorf" does
>>>>>not
>>>>>mention, and I'm not sure I wonder why he doesn't.   I suspect he just
>>>>>doesn't understand his sources, not that he is deliberately
>>>>>misrepresenting
>>>>>them as others might.   He may be using third hand or worse sources, has
>>>>>just taken somebody's word that the numbers are accurate, and didn't 
>>>>>check
>>>>>for himself.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" claims a total death toll from the bombing campaign of
>>>>>approximately 60,000.
>>>>>
>>>>>In fact, it's between 62,000 and 64,000 - but wait!  There's more! And 
>>>>>it
>>>>>moves the results even farther apart!
>>>>>
>>>>>That 62,000 to 64,000 figure is *only civilians*, not necessarily only
>>>>>from
>>>>>bombings,  and does not include military personnel killed on home soil -
>>>>>and
>>>>>there had to be some, since military bases would be primary bombing
>>>>>targets
>>>>>and there were military staff working in the cities being bombed.    So 
>>>>>we
>>>>>can see clearly that this higher number is still too low to be a total
>>>>>number of casualties from bombings, for all groups.
>>>>>
>>>>>In addition, the traffic fatalities include *all* groups, though
>>>>>particularly after 1942, vehicles were considerably less likely to be
>>>>>driven
>>>>>by civilians.
>>>>>
>>>>>So to compare figures properly, "Mr. Ebersdorf" needs to get to the raw
>>>>>original UK Government statistics and separate the civilian from the
>>>>>military personnel traffic fatalities, and also present the number of
>>>>>military personnel killed *in England* during the war by German bombs.
>>>>>
>>>>>Otherwise, his comparisons just don't work, quite aside from the fact 
>>>>>that
>>>>>the figures he's used are not correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>It might be interesting to include the figures for road accidents 
>>>>>directly
>>>>>caused by falling bombs, separating civilian and  military fatalities.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder if "Mr. Ebersdorf" will be able to supply us with the correct 
>>>>>and
>>>>>appropriate figures.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hope this helps.
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:10 EDT 2009
Article: 1994430 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:09:16 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:mcurp4panuue8qgaq90eufr7cfhe6lsv21@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:45:12 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:55grp4hrvkgom1tr21gpkj2fetrfo9svm2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:16:20 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Roger"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 
>>>>>>>>>60
>>>>>>>>>thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, slightly
>>>>>>>>>fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, or
>>>>>>>*26
>>>>>>>per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to the 
>>>>>>>high
>>>>>>>figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing
>>>>>>>campaign.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>>>>>able,
>>>>>>>to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200 miles 
>>>>>>>per
>>>>>>>month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, so these
>>>>>>>traffic
>>>>>>>fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>>>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>>>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>>>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>>>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>>>>> unusual at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Keenan loves plucking figures from his ample, saggy old arse and 
>>>>>twisting,
>>>>>distorting and beating them up until the give up the meaning he needs.
>>>>>
>>>>>He's a master at the sleight of hand the yids invented.
>>>>
>>>> So I have noticed. 
>>>
>>>And you're still unable to either explain where you got your numbers from,
>>>or why they are so different from official UK figures.
>>>
>>>It's becoming clear that you just don't understand what it is you pretend 
>>>to
>>>write about.
>>
>> LOL, "Keenan", you're one to complain about comprehension.
>
>Yes, since I'm not the one who is claiming that 60 is less than 54.

You said that, not me.

You are still avoiding the actual issue which is the nature of allied
versus German bombing efforts.

>
>That is, after all, what your claim is, once the corrected figures are used.
>
>> The British
>> bombing totals were of the same order of magnitude as the traffic
>
>Except that your claim is that they were *less*, and this isn't the case.
>
>They were in fact larger, by a significant percentage.
>
>> totals, whereas German victims of allied bombings dramatically
>> exceeded the typical traffic totals.
>
>Really.   And what was the total of traffic deaths in Germany, and how many 
>of them were civilians?
>
>Can you actually provide these figures?
>
>> Obviously the two bombing
>> campaigns had radically different objectives.
>
>So I think where your reply puts is is that you are never going to even try 
>to support the figures you produced.  You're going to waffle that some other 
>figures for another country mean something else.
>
>And I'll point out, again, that if you found mainstream historical accounts 
>that used this kind of fabrication and misrepresentation, you'd be claiming 
>that it discounts the account as a whole.
>
>But instead, when you're caught doing it, you act the "revisionist" and 
>apply a double standard.
>
>But that's as expected.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2366981.0.Road_accident_deaths_at_50year_low.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In 2004, at a time when there were many more cars and people, the 
>>>>>>>daily
>>>>>>>death toll was around 8, or 3221 for the year; in 1992 around 9.4, or
>>>>>>>3,431
>>>>>>>for the year - these figures include mopeds and scooters as well as 
>>>>>>>cars
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>lorrys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>However, "Mr. Ebersdorf" says that he's claiming a six-year period 
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>total exceeding 60,000 deaths from bombings is less than the traffic
>>>>>>>fatalities, and he's wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>We know from British statistics that the *highest* number of annual
>>>>>>>traffic
>>>>>>>fatalities was 9,149 in 1941, or 26 per day, so using that figure, the
>>>>>>>maximum total for a six-year period is *less* than 54,894 deaths.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" is probably taking his excessive and unsupported 30
>>>>>>>deaths
>>>>>>>per day, multiplying it by 365 and then 6 to get 65,700.   But as we
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>seen, the 30 per day average was never reached on an annual basis, so
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>calculation provided by "Mr. Ebersdorf" provides an incorrect number,
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>fact about  10,106 too high.    The real figure, with the exception
>>>>>>>below,
>>>>>>>is around 83% of what "Mr. Ebersdorf" claims.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the schools I went to, we were taught that 54 is less than 60, and
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>83% is not 100%.    In a phrase, less is not more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Of course, there is another rather important detail "Mr. Ebersdorf" 
>>>>>>>does
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>mention, and I'm not sure I wonder why he doesn't.   I suspect he just
>>>>>>>doesn't understand his sources, not that he is deliberately
>>>>>>>misrepresenting
>>>>>>>them as others might.   He may be using third hand or worse sources, 
>>>>>>>has
>>>>>>>just taken somebody's word that the numbers are accurate, and didn't
>>>>>>>check
>>>>>>>for himself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mr. Ebersdorf" claims a total death toll from the bombing campaign of
>>>>>>>approximately 60,000.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In fact, it's between 62,000 and 64,000 - but wait!  There's more! And
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>moves the results even farther apart!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That 62,000 to 64,000 figure is *only civilians*, not necessarily only
>>>>>>>from
>>>>>>>bombings,  and does not include military personnel killed on home 
>>>>>>>soil -
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>there had to be some, since military bases would be primary bombing
>>>>>>>targets
>>>>>>>and there were military staff working in the cities being bombed. 
>>>>>>>So
>>>>>>>we
>>>>>>>can see clearly that this higher number is still too low to be a total
>>>>>>>number of casualties from bombings, for all groups.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In addition, the traffic fatalities include *all* groups, though
>>>>>>>particularly after 1942, vehicles were considerably less likely to be
>>>>>>>driven
>>>>>>>by civilians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So to compare figures properly, "Mr. Ebersdorf" needs to get to the 
>>>>>>>raw
>>>>>>>original UK Government statistics and separate the civilian from the
>>>>>>>military personnel traffic fatalities, and also present the number of
>>>>>>>military personnel killed *in England* during the war by German bombs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Otherwise, his comparisons just don't work, quite aside from the fact
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>the figures he's used are not correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It might be interesting to include the figures for road accidents
>>>>>>>directly
>>>>>>>caused by falling bombs, separating civilian and  military fatalities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wonder if "Mr. Ebersdorf" will be able to supply us with the correct
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>appropriate figures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:11 EDT 2009
Article: 1994431 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Waffen SS Murdered American POWS at Malmedy
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:14:33 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:c4urp4dfat6migb65aeoc3nmg07njehatt@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:48:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Zulu"  wrote in message
>>>news:499d6e3d@news.x-privat.org...
>>>> I'll Always Be 18-02-09 escribió:
>>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>>>>> news:l0pop4hgkpibvtcorehrt7emtat30t4omq@4ax.com:
>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:10:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Roger"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:o7sdp4t5uer2vbrb5ermse5nm46tjrtrj5@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>>>>>         in message :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The entire German bombing campaign in England killed approximately 
>>>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>>> thousand people over the almost six-year course of the war, 
>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>> fewer than the typical traffic toll over the same period.
>>>>>>>> Sorry, ~30 deaths a day traffic fatalities in that time period seems
>>>>>>>> more than a little high -- got a source?
>>>>>>> It does seem high, but the peak was in 1941, with 9,169 fatalities, 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> *26 per day*.   Nighttime blackouts probably contributed heavily to 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> high figures, and the blackouts were required by - the German bombing
>>>>>>> campaign.
>>>>>>> This leads to a question, though - who felt it necessary, or was even
>>>>>>> able, to drive at night?  In 1939  petrol was rationed to allow 200
>>>>>>> miles per month, and by 1942, private use of petrol was not allowed, 
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> these traffic fatalities had to be largely military staff.
>>>>>> Oh give it up boys, the USA has roughly six times the population of
>>>>>> the UK and typically has 50,000 traffic fatalities per year. Even
>>>>>> Canada has typically 4,000 to 5,000 annually, and it has a much
>>>>>> smaller population than the UK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modern Germany has typically 15,000 fatalities and half a million
>>>>>> injured every year. These are pretty much standard figures, and not
>>>>>> unusual at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet once again you provide no proof for these figures. How unusual
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Comparison in Europe [5],[6]
>>>>
>>>> Countries.......Number of deaths within 30 days
>>>>
>>>> Year........... 2001....2002....2003....2004....2005....2006
>>>>
>>>> France..........8 160...7 654...6 059...5 530...5 318...4 703
>>>> Germany.........6 977...6 842...6 600...5 842...5 361...5 094
>>>> Poland..........5 534...5 827...5 640...5 712...5 444 Spain...........5
>>>> 517...5 347...5 394...4 741...4 442 UK..............3 598...3 431...3
>>>> 658...3 368...3 201 Netherlands.......993.....987...1 
>>>> 028.....804.....817
>>>> In the EC, in 2005, 41,600 peoples have died in road accidents,
>>>> 1.39 millions were injured.
>>>>
>>>> Dans l'Union européenne, en 2005, 41 600 personnes sont mortes dans des
>>>> accidents de la circulation, 1,9 million ont été blessées[7].
>>>>
>>>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_routi%C3%A8re
>>>
>>>Regarless, these numbers are not relevant to the claims made by "Mr.
>>>Ebersdorf", or to the fact that he seems unable to comprehend that 54 is
>>>actually less than 60.
>>
>> The fact remains that the bombing totals are of the same order of
>> magnitude as the traffic toll, whereas the allied bombing victims in
>> Germany dramatically outnumber traffic victims, despite having been
>> dramatically better protected than their British counterparts.
>>
>> Your silly quibbling over minor differences in numbers is merely to
>> derail the discussion.
>
>No, it is to get you to support the figures you toss out.  If you can.
>
>But you are doing a remarkably poor job of doing so, which isn't really 
>unexpected.
>
>> That is why you dishonestly mention Coventry
>
>Please show where I mentioned Coventry, anywhere.
>
>> (death toll under 400) and Hamburg
>
>Or where I mentioned Hamburg.
>
>In fact, I mentioned neither, anywhere.
>
>This is something else you're making up, just like your assertion that 
>British traffic deaths exceeded deaths from bombings, which they clearly 
>didn't.
>
>> (death toll 55,000) as if the
>> events were comparable. They are not.
>
>So deaths are not deaths?
>
>The fact remains that you have provided numbers, without any support and 
>which can easily be shown to be wrong,  and represented the smaller figure 
>as being larger.
>
>The fact remains that your assertion is not only unfounded, it is provably 
>false.

Give it up "Keenan".

>
>So what else are you making up?
>
>Why is it that you are so desperately unwilling to support the figures you 
>present?
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Now, I suspect that if you found a mainstream Holocaust source that played
>>>as loosely with figures as "Mr. Ebersdorf" plainly does, you'd be crying
>>>that it discounts all of recorded history.
>>>
>>>Interesting that your attitude is rather different here.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:12 EDT 2009
Article: 1994569 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:04:04 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>news:D-OdnYJoffBvZQPUnZ2dnUVZ_hyWnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "B. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>> news:jN-dnVF1xI8KZgHUnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Neil Harrington"  wrote in message 
>>> news:GPudnc-DKMloiAHUnZ2dnUVZ_gCWnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:BMydnd0q6pq8kgbUnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:gt5kp4930smol8nuhemehabgrhls46kamu@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:52:17 -0500, in
>>>>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>>>>> > On 2/15/2009 1:45 PM, in
>>>>>>> > , Neil Harrington
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> >> news:40lgp41s1rn8ibtbiaiqj36k8vnpfhrp8b@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> >>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:00:36 +1000, in
>>>>>>> >>> , "B. Cramer"
>>>>>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> >>>> news:NYLll.266249$NN4.48494@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/2009 9:34 PM, B. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Did he elaborate on the "danger" Zundel posed?
>>>>>>> >>>>> Yes.  In the section below that you ignored.
>>>>>>> >>>> I didn't ignore it. There is nothing of any consequence there
>>>>>>> >>>> which would lead me to think Zundel was a threat to Canadian
>>>>>>> >>>> society.
>>>>>>> >>> You ignored it because it does exactly what you say it doesn't. 
>>>>>>> >>> It
>>>>>>> >>>  explains why Mr Justice Blais found that Zündel was a "threat to
>>>>>>> >>> Canada's national security".
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Amongst others:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> - his support of right-wing extremism
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Is "right-wing extremism" a real threat in Canada? What have
>>>>>>> >> "right-wing extremists" done there, for example, that had any
>>>>>>> >> connection with Zundel?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Ask the judge, Neil.  He wrote the decision and had the evidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you're perfectly willing to accept that that list of vague, 
>>>>>>> non-specific
>>>>>>> accusations and insinuations was enough to throw Zundel in prison --  
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> solitary confinement at that -- for about two years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That list, that was not vague and was quite sepcifi9c, had nothing to
>>>>>> do with his being in jail for two years.  He was in jail because he
>>>>>> refused to give up his claim of refugee status, although he had lived
>>>>>> in Canada for almost 50 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To an American, that seems extraordinarily harsh to say the least. 
>>>>>>> What you
>>>>>>> have there sounds more like the classic communist system of "criminal
>>>>>>> justice" than the way such things are done in North America.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you don't understand, or refuse to try to understand, the facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> One notes that the US treats refugee claimants in *exactly the same 
>>>>> way*.
>>>>>
>>>>> The way it's done in Canada *is* the way it's done throughout North 
>>>>> America.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is just an example of Mr. Harrington's ignorance of his own 
>>>>> country's practices and history.
>>>>
>>>> Please provide just one example of an alien who had lived a peaceful, 
>>>> law-abiding life in this country for 40 years, left it temporarily, and 
>>>> then was thrown into prison (solitary confinement at that) simply for 
>>>> returning to it.
>>>
>>> Hahahahahahahaha.
>>>
>>> Nice one, Neil. Using their own tactics on them. Not at all white of you, 
>>> you know.
>>
>> Sauce for the gander, Ben. But I don't really expect any of them to 
>> provide me with the requested example.
>
>The problem with your requested example is that it doesn't describe Zundel's 
>life in Canada.   He had built a business out of breaking the laws of the 
>country he's a citizen of, he was surrounded by criminals and had many ties 
>to violent people and organizations, and you state yourself that he required 
>bodyguards and that his house was burned, that he was attacked.

The victim is at fault in your idea of criminal justice? It is
scandalous that the man had to hire bodyguards and that arsonists were
able to torch his house. It rather sounds like police collusion,
doesn't it?


>
>How exactly do those describe a "peaceful, law-abiding life"?
>
>If you want to use a comparison, start with people with links to groups like 
>the Tamil Tigers, or various Hindu or Sikh groups.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:12 EDT 2009
Article: 1994610 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Does Holocaust Denial Really Mean?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:09:23 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:pPCdnYbMgde4QADUnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article <20090219155056.626581A7949@isole>,
>> Anonymous   wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>People like Germar Rudolf, Ernst Zundel, and Bishop Williamson who do
>>>not believe this account and who dare to say so in public are reviled
>>
>> I don't know much about Bishop Williamson, but can tell you that those who
>> call Ernst Zundel a vicious antisemite are quite correct.
>
>Your opinion, mcFey. One you are obliged to articulate.
>
>Fuck orf, you slimy, yid sucking piece of shite.

McVay truly is a disgusting piece of work.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:13 EDT 2009
Article: 1994860 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:11:46 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>> RJ11 escribió:
>>
>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>> > Zulu   wrote:
>>
>> >>>    The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>
>> >> Results?
>>
>> >    Life imprisonment for most.  Germany abolished the death
>> > penalty after WW2.
>>
>> Details and Source?
>
> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>down

Actually, it was disgust at the allied occupiers use of the death
penalty during the postwar period. Do you have any evidence for your
30,000 quote, since my reading indicates that the German supreme court
handed down 240 death sentences during the 12 years of the NS regime.
Is this the same as the allied claim of 30,000 victims at Rotterdam,
whereas the city administration claims fewer than 1,000 or roughly 3%
of the allied claim?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:13 EDT 2009
Article: 1994861 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"george"  wrote in message 
>news:e3655d6e-4dc0-4d45-a9c2-458ed1544abb@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>> RJ11 escribió:
>>
>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>
>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>
>> >> Results?
>>
>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>> > penalty after WW2.
>>
>> Details and Source?
>
> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>down
>
>================
>For reference, the Basic Law is available online, and an English rendering 
>is here:
>
>http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm
>
>And the relevant German section is here:
>http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/funktion/gesetze/Grundgesetz/gg_09.html
>
>"Artikel 102
>Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. "

That is exactly ALL the article says. It does not mention the NS
period at all. It was enacted the moment that power was returned to
German authorities, along with the provision that no German may be
turned over to a foreign power for trial or punishment. It was a
response to gross allied postwar excesses in the area of capital
punishment.

>
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:14 EDT 2009
Article: 1994862 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:45:15 -0800 (PST), StarDust 
wrote:

>The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact. You
>haven’t the right to dispute it, nor even to try to prove your good
>faith or to justify yourself by spelling out the reasons why you don’t
>believe in the reality of the genocide of the Jews and the Nazi gas
>chambers”. What do you think of this?

That is why I consider the NIMT trials a judicial farce. It was
essentially a lynching with judicial trappings.

>
>This “common knowledge” argument stems from Article 21 of the Charter
>of the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal, which states: “The
>Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but
>shall take judicial notice thereof”. It’s outrageous. What, here, does
>“common knowledge” mean? Facts of “common knowledge” for whom?
>According to what criteria does the Nuremberg Tribunal decide that
>such or such a fact is of “common knowledge” while some other fact
>isn’t? The answer is it’s the Tribunal that, without giving its
>reasons, arbitrarily pronounces that such or such a fact is of “common
>knowledge”, and grants itself permission to make its assessments in
>this regard without adducing any relevant evidence. Pre-emptively,
>from the very start it forbids anyone to remind it that in proper
>justice all must be proved. As there exists no instance of appeal,
>here we have a court that grants itself full power to violate the
>duties of the judge. It’s in the secrecy of their deliberations,
>without consulting anyone, that these judges choose such or such a
>“fact” and decree that it need not be proved. The procedure is a
>cynical one.
>
>In regard to revisionism, I’ve had dealings with people of the
>judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>decreed: “It’s like this because this is how it is”, or else: “This is
>how it is because we’ve decided that it should be so”. But Article 21
>of that strange Tribunal’s Charter has an even bigger surprise in
>store for us in its next sentence, and here the very peak of cynicism
>is attained. Listen to this: “[The Tribunal] shall also take judicial
>notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United
>Nations, including the acts and documents of the committees set up in
>the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and
>of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the
>United Nations”, that is, any of the States that happen to be the
>declared enemies of the accused. Here’s what amounts to saying: “On
>these matters the prosecution is automatically right and the defence
>need only hold its tongue”. Hence one will not be surprised at the
>fact, for example, that the document of Soviet origin concluding that
>the Katyn massacre was a German crime (with 11,000 victims, it was
>stated!) should have been considered right from the start as being “of
>probative value”. The German barristers Stahmer and Laternser, who
>wanted to challenge it, found themselves being shut up by a reminder
>of the magical Article 21 given all at once by the Soviet prosecutor,
>by presiding judge Lawrence, and — the extreme of the extreme — by
>Soviet judge Nikitchenko acting as if he himself were a prosecutor.
>http://www.tellingfilms.co.uk/faurisson-iranintvw.htm
>
>>>Article 21.
>
>The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but
>shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice
>of official governmental documents and reports of the United Nations,
>including the acts and documents of the committees set up in the
>various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and of
>records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the
>United Nations. <<<
>http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/imtconst.asp#art21


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:14 EDT 2009
Article: 1994863 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:30:19 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "StarDust"  wrote in message 
>> news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> 
>> In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>> judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>> English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>> complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>> clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>> decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: "This is
>> how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>
>> 
>> -----------------------
>>
>> More whining from "revisionists".
>>
>> However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the concept 
>> of free speech.   This is made clear because he accepted an invitation to 
>> a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>
>Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>
>What would have happened to those attending this conference had it been held 
>in Berlin, keenan kunt?

The event would not have been permitted in the first place, but you
are quite right, the participants would have been at great personal
risk.

>
>What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:14 EDT 2009
Article: 1994864 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:03:51 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"StarDust"  wrote in message 
>news:f2ec6e94-9a50-476f-8ba4-713c1c1153d5@m40g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 22, 12:09 am, Roger  wrote:
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>> (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>> someone claiming to be StarDust wrote
>> in message
>> :
>>
>> >PK is an idiot, don't get it, that most western countries have Holo
>> >denying laws and such a conference is imposable to hold there.
>>
>> A demonstrable lie.
>>
>> A total of 11 countries have laws that can be interpreted as outlawing
>> denial
>>
>> How many Western countries are there?
>>
>> >Conference had to be protected!
>>
>> .. from those who were most likely to have personal knowledge of the
>> events under discussion.
>>
>> Why is that, do you suppose?
>
>>Also, there;s a UN resolution about Holo denying. That's over 100
>>countries.
>>Also, in any other countries than Iran, I think there was a danger
>>Jews, ADL etc.. disrupting the conference, maybe endanger the life of
>>those attending it.
>>We've seen how Zundel, Faurrison been attacked. Zundel house has been
>>blown up by Jew.
>>JS
>
>The jews posting here have said Zundel burned his own house down.

Given the attitudes of the Toronto police service at the time, he
would most certainly have been charged if he had torched his own
building. The fact that nobody was ever charged, suggests that the
arsonist was from a group to which the police turned a blind eye.

>
>Isn't it amazing the bullshit they come up with, totally unsupported, and 
>claim it as fact.
>
>Can you say Holocaust(tm)?
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:15 EDT 2009
Article: 1994865 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:29:09 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"StarDust"  wrote in message 
>news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
>
>But not proven fact.
>
>Your choice of word (established) is rather telling.

The wording was from the Nuremberg trial farce, not StarDust.

The British used to say the same thing about the earth being flat, the
sun revolving around the earth, or the reality of witches. With
judicial notice, any Alice-in-wonderland verdict is possible. It makes
the trial into a mockery.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:15 EDT 2009
Article: 1994866 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:02:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"StarDust"  wrote in message 
>news:acb6d0bc-0d99-47bb-82d5-e065675c39fa@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 21, 4:30 pm, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "StarDust"  wrote in message
>> >news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> > 
>> > In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>> > judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>> > English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>> > complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>> > clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>> > decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: "This is
>> > how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>
>> > 
>> > -----------------------
>>
>> > More whining from "revisionists".
>>
>> > However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the concept
>> > of free speech. This is made clear because he accepted an invitation to
>> > a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>>
>> Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>>
>> What would have happened to those attending this conference had it been 
>> held
>> in Berlin, keenan kunt?
>>
>> What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>
>PK is an idiot, don't get it, that most western  countries have Holo
>denying laws and such a conference is imposable to hold there.
>Conference had to be protected!
>====================
>In fact, there are only a handful of countries with such laws, and they have 
>them because they have personal and bitter experience with the results of 
>the National Socialist ideologies, and want nothing to do with them.

No, they have such laws because they are lackeys and vassals of the
USA which is in turn heavily under the influence of lobby groups from
the holocaust industry.

>
>But North America, for example, has precisely none of these laws.  The UK 
>doesn't have them, neither does Australia or NZ; neither do South American 
>countries or Japan, Korea, etc.
>
>This "conference" could have been held in many places where there are no 
>laws regarding Holocaust denial at all.    But no, it had to be held in a 
>place where those who really know the subject would simply not be permitted 
>to attend.
>
>This restriction had nothing to do with whether or not the "revisionist" 
>position can be expressed elsewhere, but had everything to do with 
>preventing the expression of mainstream historical views and any real 
>examination of the "revisionist" position.
>
>The "conference" had to be protected, as you say, because the "revisionist" 
>historical account just cannot withstand scrutiny.
>
>It has to be supported by force of arms, not by facts.   It has all the 
>validity of Lysenkoism.
>
>And by agreeing to attend it in a place where speech is heavily suppressed, 
>by force of arms, Faurisson and other "revisionists" showed that they do not 
>value free speech at all.
>
>Any statements by "revisionists" on the desirability of "free speech" are 
>thus shown to be hypocritical.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:15 EDT 2009
Article: 1995092 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:13:47 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:cto2q4p34qobc8r2a0glfemhmf9ill96n9@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"george"  wrote in message
>>>news:e3655d6e-4dc0-4d45-a9c2-458ed1544abb@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>
>>>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>>>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>>>
>>>> >> Results?
>>>>
>>>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>>>> > penalty after WW2.
>>>>
>>>> Details and Source?
>>>
>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>>>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>>>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>>>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>>>down
>>>
>>>================
>>>For reference, the Basic Law is available online, and an English rendering
>>>is here:
>>>
>>>http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm
>>>
>>>And the relevant German section is here:
>>>http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/funktion/gesetze/Grundgesetz/gg_09.html
>>>
>>>"Artikel 102
>>>Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. "
>>
>> That is exactly ALL the article says. It does not mention the NS
>> period at all.
>
>Very few laws include the rationale for their enactment.
>
>Do laws prohibiting the act of murder mention any historical period?
>
>That background information comes from the debates and discussions.
>
>
>> It was enacted the moment that power was returned to
>> German authorities, along with the provision that no German may be
>> turned over to a foreign power for trial or punishment. It was a
>> response to gross allied postwar excesses in the area of capital
>> punishment.
>
>So you say, but I'd prefer that you provide the background material to 
>support the claim.
>
>Unfortunately, you don't seem to be particularly good at doing that, and in 
>fact have utterly failed to do so when asked.
>
>So pardon me if I don't take your word that your version is accurate.

LOL

I guess it's only fair, since I don't believe too much of what you
write either. I do know Germany and its people, however, so I don't
really give a flying shit what you think.

>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:16 EDT 2009
Article: 1995093 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:54:22 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:sO-dnfFa_eiUiD_UnZ2dnUVZ_jKWnZ2d@supernews.com...
>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> news:cto2q4p34qobc8r2a0glfemhmf9ill96n9@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"george"  wrote in message
>>>>news:e3655d6e-4dc0-4d45-a9c2-458ed1544abb@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>>>>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Results?
>>>>>
>>>>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>>>>> > penalty after WW2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Details and Source?
>>>>
>>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>>>>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>>>>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>>>>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>>>>down
>>>>
>>>>================
>>>>For reference, the Basic Law is available online, and an English 
>>>>rendering
>>>>is here:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm
>>>>
>>>>And the relevant German section is here:
>>>>http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/funktion/gesetze/Grundgesetz/gg_09.html
>>>>
>>>>"Artikel 102
>>>>Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. "
>>>
>>> That is exactly ALL the article says. It does not mention the NS
>>> period at all.
>>
>> Very few laws include the rationale for their enactment.
>>
>> Do laws prohibiting the act of murder mention any historical period?
>>
>> That background information comes from the debates and discussions.
>>
>>
>>> It was enacted the moment that power was returned to
>>> German authorities, along with the provision that no German may be
>>> turned over to a foreign power for trial or punishment. It was a
>>> response to gross allied postwar excesses in the area of capital
>>> punishment.
>>
>> So you say, but I'd prefer that you provide the background material to 
>> support the claim.
>
>Why? "Because I say so" is perfectly acceptable from you and the yids. 
>According to you, at any rate.
>
>
Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to
this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The timing
of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross allied
excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of being
exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own
country.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:16 EDT 2009
Article: 1995094 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:54:23 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:1do2q4lmel2mjec6rmn3dvhrvgauhqkh1e@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:11:46 -0800 (PST), george 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>
>>>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>>>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>>>
>>>> >> Results?
>>>>
>>>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>>>> > penalty after WW2.
>>>>
>>>> Details and Source?
>>>
>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>>>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>>>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>>>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>>>down
>>
>> Actually, it was disgust at the allied occupiers use of the death
>> penalty during the postwar period. Do you have any evidence for your
>> 30,000 quote, since my reading
>
>Your reading of *what*?
>
>> indicates that the German supreme court
>> handed down 240 death sentences during the 12 years of the NS regime.
>
>So, are you limiting your statistics by referring only to cases that 
>actually reached the supreme court?
>
>What about death sentences issued by all the other courts in the National 
>Socialist system?      Keep in mind that the Reichskriegsgericht itself 
>sentenced to death not only military but also civilian persons.

According to the constitution, death sentences can only be handed down
by the supreme court. The exception being court martials and other
events within the jurisdiction of the military.

The allies subjected far more Germans to judicial lynchings than the
German courts ever did. Germany then, as now, had one of the world's
lowest crime rates. Unlike the USA, executions were rather rare.

>
>It looks like you are once again trying to play a game with statistics.
>
>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,491332,00.html
>"Most of the 30,000 Germans sentenced to death by Nazi Germany's military 
>courts have been rehabilitated. So far, however, soldiers found guilty of 
>treason -- in many cases unjustly, have been excluded. Now, though, 
>Germany's parliament may be prepared to do just that.
>
>[...]
>
>Or the July 1944 case of Adolf Hermann Pogede, likewise handed over to the 
>hangman for treason. His offense? He allegedly told Soviet prisoners of war 
>that Hitler was leading Germany into the abyss, thereby awakening the 
>prisoners' resistance instincts. Or Josef Salz, shot in February 1944 for 
>writing in his diary that, in the words of a certain General Hoernlein, "he 
>was a friend of Jews and Bolsheviks and that he reviled the German Volk, its 
>leadership and army."
>The three all have two things in common. They were all convicted by the 
>notorious Nazi military courts of so-called Kriegsverrat -- treason 
>committed by members of Hitler's Wehrmacht. "
>
>and
>
>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,604076,00.html
>"The verdicts against men like Lukaschitz were never repealed. Around 30,000 
>deserters, conscientious objectors and traitors were sentenced to death by 
>the Nazi judiciary, of whom an estimated 20,000 were actually executed."
>
>and
>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hitlers-death-court-is-converted-to-luxury-flats-775604.html
>"Hitler's judges sentenced more than 1,000 anti-Nazi resistance fighters to 
>death in these very rooms. But now the former Third Reich courthouse, a 
>neo-baroque edifice on an idyllic lake, has reopened as a luxury complex 
>containing some of Berlin's most expensive and opulent apartments."
>
>and
>http://www.stsg.de/main/torgau/geschichte/wehrmacht/index_en.php
>"Furthermore, in August, 1943, the Reichskriegsgericht, Germany's supreme 
>military tribunal, was relocated to the Zieten Barracks in Torgau. Over the 
>duration of the war, the highest court in the German military justice system 
>issued nearly 1400 death sentences, of which some 1200 were carried out in 
>Torgau and elsewhere. The victims included conscientious objectors--most of 
>them Jehovah's Witnesses--members of the "Rote Kapelle" underground, French 
>and Polish resistance fighters, American prisoners of war, and German 
>generals.
>The longer Germany's war dragged on, and the more hopeless it became, the 
>more draconian the Nazi military courts became in fighting the flagging 
>morale of the troops and the growing opposition to the war. More than a 
>million German soldiers were convicted, and 20,000 were executed. By 
>comparison, the Western Allies during the same period carried out some 300 
>death sentences issued by courts martial."
>
>-pk
>
>
>> Is this the same as the allied claim of 30,000 victims at Rotterdam,
>> whereas the city administration claims fewer than 1,000 or roughly 3%
>> of the allied claim? 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:17 EDT 2009
Article: 1995096 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: “The Holocaust is common knowledge. It’s an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:40:19 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:7hp2q4l9apbiomf65vm5dmsgt2u370g178@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:29:09 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
>>>
>>>But not proven fact.
>>>
>>>Your choice of word (established) is rather telling.
>>
>> The wording was from the Nuremberg trial farce, not StarDust.
>>
>> The British used to say the same thing about the earth being flat, the
>> sun revolving around the earth, or the reality of witches.
>
>Too right. And people who challenged that though were hanged too.
>
>>With
>> judicial notice, any Alice-in-wonderland verdict is possible. It makes
>> the trial into a mockery.
>
>It was not a trial. It was a mockery.
>
>Justice and jurisprudence were the victims of this farcical event.

Yes, the Nuremberg "trials" put both justice and jurisprudence in bad
repute.

>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:17 EDT 2009
Article: 1995098 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:37:30 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:smp2q4lpvh1g9gcti9hfgmoufg4kqact4a@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:02:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>news:acb6d0bc-0d99-47bb-82d5-e065675c39fa@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Feb 21, 4:30 pm, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > "StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> > 
>>>> > In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>>>> > judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>>>> > English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>>>> > complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>>>> > clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>>>> > decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: "This is
>>>> > how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>>>
>>>> > 
>>>> > -----------------------
>>>>
>>>> > More whining from "revisionists".
>>>>
>>>> > However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the 
>>>> > concept
>>>> > of free speech. This is made clear because he accepted an invitation 
>>>> > to
>>>> > a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>>>>
>>>> What would have happened to those attending this conference had it been
>>>> held
>>>> in Berlin, keenan kunt?
>>>>
>>>> What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>>>
>>>PK is an idiot, don't get it, that most western  countries have Holo
>>>denying laws and such a conference is imposable to hold there.
>>>Conference had to be protected!
>>>====================
>>>In fact, there are only a handful of countries with such laws, and they 
>>>have
>>>them because they have personal and bitter experience with the results of
>>>the National Socialist ideologies, and want nothing to do with them.
>>
>> No, they have such laws because they are lackeys and vassals of the
>> USA which is in turn heavily under the influence of lobby groups from
>> the holocaust industry.
>
>Please explain why these "lackeys" have laws that do not reflect the laws of 
>those you say control them.
>
>I wonder why it is that you express such a low opinion of Germans and 
>Austrians.
>
>I wonder why you think that Germans and Austrians are incapable of thinking 
>for themselves.

Of course they think for themselves, but they are also concerned with
self-preservation, so they do what they are told. Essentially, Germany
lost its independence on 08-May-1945. The so-called "liberation" is
newspeak and was anything but a liberation.

>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>But North America, for example, has precisely none of these laws.  The UK
>>>doesn't have them, neither does Australia or NZ; neither do South American
>>>countries or Japan, Korea, etc.
>>>
>>>This "conference" could have been held in many places where there are no
>>>laws regarding Holocaust denial at all.    But no, it had to be held in a
>>>place where those who really know the subject would simply not be 
>>>permitted
>>>to attend.
>>>
>>>This restriction had nothing to do with whether or not the "revisionist"
>>>position can be expressed elsewhere, but had everything to do with
>>>preventing the expression of mainstream historical views and any real
>>>examination of the "revisionist" position.
>>>
>>>The "conference" had to be protected, as you say, because the 
>>>"revisionist"
>>>historical account just cannot withstand scrutiny.
>>>
>>>It has to be supported by force of arms, not by facts.   It has all the
>>>validity of Lysenkoism.
>>>
>>>And by agreeing to attend it in a place where speech is heavily 
>>>suppressed,
>>>by force of arms, Faurisson and other "revisionists" showed that they do 
>>>not
>>>value free speech at all.
>>>
>>>Any statements by "revisionists" on the desirability of "free speech" are
>>>thus shown to be hypocritical.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:17 EDT 2009
Article: 1995099 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:43:10 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l9p2q4hjegejej11i6ub45fh23kd7bseu5@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:30:19 +1000, "B. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>> "StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>> news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> 
>>>> In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>>>> judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>>>> English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>>>> complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>>>> clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>>>> decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: "This is
>>>> how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> -----------------------
>>>>
>>>> More whining from "revisionists".
>>>>
>>>> However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the concept
>>>> of free speech.   This is made clear because he accepted an invitation 
>>>> to
>>>> a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>>>
>>>Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>>>
>>>What would have happened to those attending this conference had it been 
>>>held
>>>in Berlin, keenan kunt?
>>
>> The event would not have been permitted in the first place, but you
>> are quite right, the participants would have been at great personal
>> risk.
>
>No problem to hold it in the US or Mexico, though.

LOL, Keenan, what have you been smoking. The USA would definitely be a
hostile location, and the Mexicans are not going to buck the USA,
especially after American aggression robbed them of almost half their
national territory.

>
>After all, Irving travels to the US and speaks on the very same topics 
>without any problems.
>
>Faurisson apparently lacks the backbone Irving actually has.
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>>>
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:18 EDT 2009
Article: 1995163 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:03:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:qf55q4h5qerp8jn7bu9i3ppdnotljnouk0@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:37:30 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:smp2q4lpvh1g9gcti9hfgmoufg4kqact4a@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:02:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:acb6d0bc-0d99-47bb-82d5-e065675c39fa@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>On Feb 21, 4:30 pm, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > "StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>>>> >news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>>>>>> > judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>>>>>> > English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>>>>>> > complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>>>>>> > clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at bottom,
>>>>>> > decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: "This 
>>>>>> > is
>>>>>> > how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > -----------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > More whining from "revisionists".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the
>>>>>> > concept
>>>>>> > of free speech. This is made clear because he accepted an invitation
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> > a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would have happened to those attending this conference had it 
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> held
>>>>>> in Berlin, keenan kunt?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>>>>>
>>>>>PK is an idiot, don't get it, that most western  countries have Holo
>>>>>denying laws and such a conference is imposable to hold there.
>>>>>Conference had to be protected!
>>>>>====================
>>>>>In fact, there are only a handful of countries with such laws, and they
>>>>>have
>>>>>them because they have personal and bitter experience with the results 
>>>>>of
>>>>>the National Socialist ideologies, and want nothing to do with them.
>>>>
>>>> No, they have such laws because they are lackeys and vassals of the
>>>> USA which is in turn heavily under the influence of lobby groups from
>>>> the holocaust industry.
>>>
>>>Please explain why these "lackeys" have laws that do not reflect the laws 
>>>of
>>>those you say control them.
>>>
>>>I wonder why it is that you express such a low opinion of Germans and
>>>Austrians.
>>>
>>>I wonder why you think that Germans and Austrians are incapable of 
>>>thinking
>>>for themselves.
>>
>> Of course they think for themselves, but they are also concerned with
>> self-preservation, so they do what they are told. Essentially, Germany
>> lost its independence on 08-May-1945. The so-called "liberation" is
>> newspeak and was anything but a liberation.
>
>So, your view of Germans is that they are afraid to express what they really 
>think?  That they are cowards?

They are definitely not cowards, just sensible people trying to get on
with life. The licence parties are the ones who are utterly
subservient to the allies and their policies, since the licence
parties were put into power by the allies. There really hasn't been a
postwar government in Germany that actually governed for Germans. All
of them merely administered Germany on behalf of somebody else.

>
>I wonder why you have such a low opinion of them.
>
>-pk
>
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But North America, for example, has precisely none of these laws.  The 
>>>>>UK
>>>>>doesn't have them, neither does Australia or NZ; neither do South 
>>>>>American
>>>>>countries or Japan, Korea, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>This "conference" could have been held in many places where there are no
>>>>>laws regarding Holocaust denial at all.    But no, it had to be held in 
>>>>>a
>>>>>place where those who really know the subject would simply not be
>>>>>permitted
>>>>>to attend.
>>>>>
>>>>>This restriction had nothing to do with whether or not the "revisionist"
>>>>>position can be expressed elsewhere, but had everything to do with
>>>>>preventing the expression of mainstream historical views and any real
>>>>>examination of the "revisionist" position.
>>>>>
>>>>>The "conference" had to be protected, as you say, because the
>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>historical account just cannot withstand scrutiny.
>>>>>
>>>>>It has to be supported by force of arms, not by facts.   It has all the
>>>>>validity of Lysenkoism.
>>>>>
>>>>>And by agreeing to attend it in a place where speech is heavily
>>>>>suppressed,
>>>>>by force of arms, Faurisson and other "revisionists" showed that they do
>>>>>not
>>>>>value free speech at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any statements by "revisionists" on the desirability of "free speech" 
>>>>>are
>>>>>thus shown to be hypocritical.
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:18 EDT 2009
Article: 1995284 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:32:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:4l45q4p0omgjp3k9hpobtgmumu2hs2v9bi@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:13:47 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:cto2q4p34qobc8r2a0glfemhmf9ill96n9@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"george"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:e3655d6e-4dc0-4d45-a9c2-458ed1544abb@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>>>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>>>>>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>>>>>> > penalty after WW2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details and Source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>>>>>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>>>>>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>>>>>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>>>>>down
>>>>>
>>>>>================
>>>>>For reference, the Basic Law is available online, and an English 
>>>>>rendering
>>>>>is here:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>And the relevant German section is here:
>>>>>http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/funktion/gesetze/Grundgesetz/gg_09.html
>>>>>
>>>>>"Artikel 102
>>>>>Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. "
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly ALL the article says. It does not mention the NS
>>>> period at all.
>>>
>>>Very few laws include the rationale for their enactment.
>>>
>>>Do laws prohibiting the act of murder mention any historical period?
>>>
>>>That background information comes from the debates and discussions.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It was enacted the moment that power was returned to
>>>> German authorities, along with the provision that no German may be
>>>> turned over to a foreign power for trial or punishment. It was a
>>>> response to gross allied postwar excesses in the area of capital
>>>> punishment.
>>>
>>>So you say, but I'd prefer that you provide the background material to
>>>support the claim.
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, you don't seem to be particularly good at doing that, and 
>>>in
>>>fact have utterly failed to do so when asked.
>>>
>>>So pardon me if I don't take your word that your version is accurate.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> I guess it's only fair, since I don't believe too much of what you
>> write either. I do know Germany and its people, however,
>
>So you say, but you seem to get rather significant aspects of its history 
>quite wrong, as we've seen again today when you "forgot" about the 
>activities of the Volksgerichtshof and the number of people they executed, 
>which was rather high.
>
>So, it looks like  we will never see you provide background material, and it 
>won't be surprising why that doesn't happen: the real history doesn't 
>support your claims.

Your idea of "real" history is allied history, and I ALWAYS take that
with a very large grain of salt. The allies have pumped out far too
many lies for them to have much credibility. They have lied
consistently during my lifetime about such things as Vietnam,
Cambodia, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, etc. etc., so why should I believe what
they have to say about what supposedly happened before my lifetime,
especially when their claims contradict the experiences of my parents
and grand-parents?

>
>-pk
>
>
>
>
>> so I don't
>> really give a flying shit what you think.
>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:19 EDT 2009
Article: 1995285 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by  Pope
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:26:16 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ou45q4psop7c7h8shdhnduc3ml4f3sd0sm@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:54:23 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:1do2q4lmel2mjec6rmn3dvhrvgauhqkh1e@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:11:46 -0800 (PST), george 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu  wrote:
>>>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>,
>>>>>> > Zulu  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Results?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death
>>>>>> > penalty after WW2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details and Source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes the death
>>>>>penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive use of the death
>>>>>penalty in Germany by the National Socialist regime. During the twelve
>>>>>years of Nazi dictatorship, over 30,000 death sentences were handed
>>>>>down
>>>>
>>>> Actually, it was disgust at the allied occupiers use of the death
>>>> penalty during the postwar period. Do you have any evidence for your
>>>> 30,000 quote, since my reading
>>>
>>>Your reading of *what*?
>>>
>>>> indicates that the German supreme court
>>>> handed down 240 death sentences during the 12 years of the NS regime.
>>>
>>>So, are you limiting your statistics by referring only to cases that
>>>actually reached the supreme court?
>>>
>>>What about death sentences issued by all the other courts in the National
>>>Socialist system?      Keep in mind that the Reichskriegsgericht itself
>>>sentenced to death not only military but also civilian persons.
>>
>> According to the constitution,
>
>Yes, well, that's where the problem with your claim comes in, isn't it?

The constitution continued to be in force all through the NS
dictatorship. 

>
>> death sentences can only be handed down
>> by the supreme court. The exception being court martials and other
>> events within the jurisdiction of the military.
>
>Except, of course, that the Nazi leadership in 1934 set up so-called 
>"People's Courts", the Volksgerichtshof,  that could, and did, sentence 
>people to death and immediately execute them.   Thousands and thousands of 
>people were executed.

That has the same ring as the allegedly thousands of Beligian children
who had their hands cut off by German soldiers. Nobody has ever been
able to find even one instance of that, let alone "thousands".

>Every year.
>
>These courts did not pay any attention to the "constitution", like so much 
>of what the Nazi regime was *really* about.

There is no evidence of that. The constitution remained in force.

>
>This lack of respect to the "constiution" does not in any way mean that 
>those executed were not executed, or that they were not executed under 
>colour of law.
>
>And so we see that you were, in fact, once again trying to play games with 
>the real numbers, this time by pretending that the most active, repressive 
>and deadly courts just didn't exist.
>
>Sorry, but that won't work.
>
>
>> The allies subjected far more Germans to judicial lynchings than the
>> German courts ever did. Germany then, as now, had one of the world's
>> lowest crime rates. Unlike the USA, executions were rather rare.
>
>Not so.   *Thousands* were executed every year, many more than in the USA. 
>This is clear from the real numbers.
>
>Even telling a joke about Hitler could gain you a death sentence.
>
>Thanks for yet another demonstration of just why it is that Holocaust 
>deniers and "revisionists" completely lack credibility.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>It looks like you are once again trying to play a game with statistics.
>>>
>>>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,491332,00.html
>>>"Most of the 30,000 Germans sentenced to death by Nazi Germany's military
>>>courts have been rehabilitated. So far, however, soldiers found guilty of
>>>treason -- in many cases unjustly, have been excluded. Now, though,
>>>Germany's parliament may be prepared to do just that.
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>Or the July 1944 case of Adolf Hermann Pogede, likewise handed over to the
>>>hangman for treason. His offense? He allegedly told Soviet prisoners of 
>>>war
>>>that Hitler was leading Germany into the abyss, thereby awakening the
>>>prisoners' resistance instincts. Or Josef Salz, shot in February 1944 for
>>>writing in his diary that, in the words of a certain General Hoernlein, 
>>>"he
>>>was a friend of Jews and Bolsheviks and that he reviled the German Volk, 
>>>its
>>>leadership and army."
>>>The three all have two things in common. They were all convicted by the
>>>notorious Nazi military courts of so-called Kriegsverrat -- treason
>>>committed by members of Hitler's Wehrmacht. "
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,604076,00.html
>>>"The verdicts against men like Lukaschitz were never repealed. Around 
>>>30,000
>>>deserters, conscientious objectors and traitors were sentenced to death by
>>>the Nazi judiciary, of whom an estimated 20,000 were actually executed."
>>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hitlers-death-court-is-converted-to-luxury-flats-775604.html
>>>"Hitler's judges sentenced more than 1,000 anti-Nazi resistance fighters 
>>>to
>>>death in these very rooms. But now the former Third Reich courthouse, a
>>>neo-baroque edifice on an idyllic lake, has reopened as a luxury complex
>>>containing some of Berlin's most expensive and opulent apartments."
>>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.stsg.de/main/torgau/geschichte/wehrmacht/index_en.php
>>>"Furthermore, in August, 1943, the Reichskriegsgericht, Germany's supreme
>>>military tribunal, was relocated to the Zieten Barracks in Torgau. Over 
>>>the
>>>duration of the war, the highest court in the German military justice 
>>>system
>>>issued nearly 1400 death sentences, of which some 1200 were carried out in
>>>Torgau and elsewhere. The victims included conscientious objectors--most 
>>>of
>>>them Jehovah's Witnesses--members of the "Rote Kapelle" underground, 
>>>French
>>>and Polish resistance fighters, American prisoners of war, and German
>>>generals.
>>>The longer Germany's war dragged on, and the more hopeless it became, the
>>>more draconian the Nazi military courts became in fighting the flagging
>>>morale of the troops and the growing opposition to the war. More than a
>>>million German soldiers were convicted, and 20,000 were executed. By
>>>comparison, the Western Allies during the same period carried out some 300
>>>death sentences issued by courts martial."
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is this the same as the allied claim of 30,000 victims at Rotterdam,
>>>> whereas the city administration claims fewer than 1,000 or roughly 3%
>>>> of the allied claim?
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:19 EDT 2009
Article: 1995286 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Holocaust is common knowledge. It's an established fact.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:05:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:6bm6q41mmru2h4lh6ui1sfodkphipgj18u@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:03:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:qf55q4h5qerp8jn7bu9i3ppdnotljnouk0@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:37:30 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:smp2q4lpvh1g9gcti9hfgmoufg4kqact4a@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:02:51 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:acb6d0bc-0d99-47bb-82d5-e065675c39fa@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>On Feb 21, 4:30 pm, "B. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> news:66-dndVYHJlWBz3UnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > "StarDust"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> >news:d31b2be8-a577-4a35-9c5d-0fd9f304c263@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > In regard to revisionism, I've had dealings with people of the
>>>>>>>> > judiciary in France, England, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and
>>>>>>>> > English-speaking Canada. I delight in hearing them all use a
>>>>>>>> > complicated and pretentious language to express the simplest and
>>>>>>>> > clumsiest ideas. So it was that at Nuremberg the judges, at 
>>>>>>>> > bottom,
>>>>>>>> > decreed: "It's like this because this is how it is", or else: 
>>>>>>>> > "This
>>>>>>>> > is
>>>>>>>> > how it is because we've decided that it should be so".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>> > -----------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > More whining from "revisionists".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > However, Faurisson - who this is about - isn't interested in the
>>>>>>>> > concept
>>>>>>>> > of free speech. This is made clear because he accepted an 
>>>>>>>> > invitation
>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>> > a "revisionist" "conference" in Tehran.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Isn't it telling he was able to attend such a conference in Tehran.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What would have happened to those attending this conference had it
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> held
>>>>>>>> in Berlin, keenan kunt?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What of your "free speech" now, keenan kunt?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>PK is an idiot, don't get it, that most western  countries have Holo
>>>>>>>denying laws and such a conference is imposable to hold there.
>>>>>>>Conference had to be protected!
>>>>>>>====================
>>>>>>>In fact, there are only a handful of countries with such laws, and 
>>>>>>>they
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>them because they have personal and bitter experience with the results
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>the National Socialist ideologies, and want nothing to do with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, they have such laws because they are lackeys and vassals of the
>>>>>> USA which is in turn heavily under the influence of lobby groups from
>>>>>> the holocaust industry.
>>>>>
>>>>>Please explain why these "lackeys" have laws that do not reflect the 
>>>>>laws
>>>>>of
>>>>>those you say control them.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder why it is that you express such a low opinion of Germans and
>>>>>Austrians.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder why you think that Germans and Austrians are incapable of
>>>>>thinking
>>>>>for themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Of course they think for themselves, but they are also concerned with
>>>> self-preservation, so they do what they are told. Essentially, Germany
>>>> lost its independence on 08-May-1945. The so-called "liberation" is
>>>> newspeak and was anything but a liberation.
>>>
>>>So, your view of Germans is that they are afraid to express what they 
>>>really
>>>think?  That they are cowards?
>>
>> They are definitely not cowards, just sensible people trying to get on
>> with life.
>
>People who, in your view, lack the backbone to think, speak or act for 
>themselves.

If they voice their thoughts, they are imprisoned, so they don't. It
is entirely prudent.

>
>> The licence parties are the ones who are utterly
>> subservient to the allies and their policies, since the licence
>> parties were put into power by the allies. There really hasn't been a
>> postwar government in Germany that actually governed for Germans. All
>> of them merely administered Germany on behalf of somebody else.
>
>In other  words, words you lack the spine to utter, you believe that Germans 
>are not courageous enough to speak, think or act for themselves.
>
>Why do you have such a low opinion of Germans?
>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>I wonder why you have such a low opinion of them.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-pk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But North America, for example, has precisely none of these laws.  The
>>>>>>>UK
>>>>>>>doesn't have them, neither does Australia or NZ; neither do South
>>>>>>>American
>>>>>>>countries or Japan, Korea, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This "conference" could have been held in many places where there are 
>>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>laws regarding Holocaust denial at all.    But no, it had to be held 
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>place where those who really know the subject would simply not be
>>>>>>>permitted
>>>>>>>to attend.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This restriction had nothing to do with whether or not the 
>>>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>>>position can be expressed elsewhere, but had everything to do with
>>>>>>>preventing the expression of mainstream historical views and any real
>>>>>>>examination of the "revisionist" position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The "conference" had to be protected, as you say, because the
>>>>>>>"revisionist"
>>>>>>>historical account just cannot withstand scrutiny.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It has to be supported by force of arms, not by facts.   It has all 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>validity of Lysenkoism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And by agreeing to attend it in a place where speech is heavily
>>>>>>>suppressed,
>>>>>>>by force of arms, Faurisson and other "revisionists" showed that they 
>>>>>>>do
>>>>>>>not
>>>>>>>value free speech at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any statements by "revisionists" on the desirability of "free speech"
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>thus shown to be hypocritical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-pk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:20 EDT 2009
Article: 1995287 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This Should Retire Holocaust Revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:20:36 -0800 (PST), Chris Larson
 wrote:

>On Feb 23, 8:21 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> "I'll Always Be 23-02-09"  wrote in messagenews:Xns9BBBB21A468E4Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>
>>
>>
>> > StarDust  wrote in news:57bbd6df-e4da-4c2b-a00e-
>> > 228efa9d9...@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> On Feb 23, 8:10 am, "Chris C. Larson" 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Another nail in the coffin has been driven against denier's Holocaust
>> >>> arguments. For those of you who missed this last
>> > night,http://www.youtube
>> >> .com/watch?v=i3cxZtVYvuI
>>
>> >>> Shall we turn to "Holocaust Scholar" Mark Weber for a rebuttal????
>>
>> >> Did he live with the  wolfs, that's how he survived?
>>
>> > No, don't you understand the English language
>>
>> >> or
>> >> In this ABC News interview, Herman Rosenblatt explains why he lied
>> >> about his experiences as a concentration camp inmate during World War
>> >> II.
>>
>> > But he isn't Herman Rosenblatt...and the nazi's documented his story.
>>
>> How is your friend Benjamin Wilkomirsky. Any more new stories let us know we
>> all will be very exited.
>> Kurt Knoll
>
>
>I've never heard of Benjamin Wilkomirsky. I doubt no one else has
>either.

It would seem that you're not as much an expert on that period of
history as you like to imagine.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:20 EDT 2009
Article: 1995330 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This Should Retire Holocaust Revisionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:07:26 -0800 (PST), Chris Larson
 wrote:

>On Feb 25, 9:50 am, "Gnostic Avenger"  wrote:
>> >>I've never heard of Benjamin Wilkomirsky. I doubt no one else has
>> >>either.>>
>>
>>  Yale University still uses a fraudulent Wilkomirsky memoir to teach
>> children about the  holocaust. Not only that, but it's the #1 book on their
>> recommended student reading list!
>>
>> http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/2002/1/02.01.01.x.html
>>
>> The Holocaust: Survival Stories
>> by
>> Dina Secchiaroli
>>
>> Student Reading List
>>
>> Wilkomirski, Binjamin. Fragments: Memories of a Wartime Childhood. New York:
>> Schocken Books, 1995. A fictional memoir about Wilkomirski?s experiences as
>> a young boy in a ghetto, in concentration camps, and in orphanages. He takes
>> us through his fragmented memories so the reader gets a glimpse of what life
>> was like during the Holocaust. The book must be photocopied from a library
>> for classroom use, since it is out of print.
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>>  FICTIONAL???  It was an outright fraud!
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,259546,00.html
>>
>> Fragments of a fraud
>>
>> His memoir was hailed as a classic of Holocaust literature. There were
>> prizes and breathless reviews. But one Swiss journalist smelt a rat and
>> after months of whispers Binjamin Wilkomirski's book was yesterday withdrawn
>> by his German publishers. Fiachra Gibbons and Stephen Moss unravel one of
>> the great literary deceptions
>>
>> Friday October 15, 1999
>> The Guardian
>>
>> "Did I have five brothers or four. Which seems righter? I can't say for sure
>> anymore..."
>> - from Fragments by Binjamin Wilkomirski
>>
>> Christopher Hope called it "achingly beautiful"; the New York Times said it
>> was written "with a poet's vision; a child's state of grace"; Anne Karpf in
>> this paper described it as "one of the great works about the Holocaust"; all
>> were agreed it was a masterpiece. There is just one problem - Binjamin
>> Wilkomirski's memoir of surviving as a Jewish child alone in the Nazi
>> concentration camps of Majdanek and Auschwitz was a fabrication, invented
>> from beginning to end, one of the great hoaxes in publishing history.
>
>Who gives a shit?????  You're one of the sheep from the group of
>Holocaust denying, Jew haters who focus on 1 or 2 stories, but ignore
>the hundreds of thousands of pieces of evidence.  Ever looked into the
>eye of a survivor?  What piece of the 60 Minutes story do you "deny"?
>In fact, please tell us what happened to those 6 million Jews?. Ever
>looked into the eye of a survivor?  Regarding the denier's story line,
>did you get the license number of the space vehicle that transported
>them into space?

That is a pretty weak argument you have assembled. More than fifty
million people died during WW2, so there are lots of ways that Jews
might die other than being in a camp, especially given the fact that
Jews tended to live in downtown ghettos, the very places the allies
liked to bomb. There have never been "hundreds of thousands of pieces
of evidence". The fact that you are here suggests very strongly that
you yourself believe that the story is incapable of standing on its
own without draconian legislation and armies of loyal defenders. No
other historical narrative seems to require legislative protection, so
why does this one?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:21 EDT 2009
Article: 1995539 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Excommunicated English "Holocaust denier" bishop reinstated by Pope
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:29:42 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 2/23/2009 7:16 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:54:22 +1000, "B. Cramer" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>>> news:sO-dnfFa_eiUiD_UnZ2dnUVZ_jKWnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:cto2q4p34qobc8r2a0glfemhmf9ill96n9@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:24:43 -0500, "Patrick Keenan"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "george"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:e3655d6e-4dc0-4d45-a9c2-458ed1544abb@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>  On Feb 22, 9:07 am, Zulu
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> RJ11 escribió:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In article <499ed...@news.x-privat.org>, Zulu
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The SS staff from Sobibor was tried by the Germans
>>>>>>>>>> themselves.
>>>>>>>>> Results?
>>>>>>>> Life imprisonment for most. Germany abolished the death 
>>>>>>>> penalty after WW2.
>>>>>>> Details and Source?
>>>>>> Article 102 of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law), which abolishes
>>>>>> the death penalty, was motivated by disgust at the excessive
>>>>>> use of the death penalty in Germany by the National Socialist
>>>>>> regime. During the twelve years of Nazi dictatorship, over
>>>>>> 30,000 death sentences were handed down
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ================ For reference, the Basic Law is available
>>>>>> online, and an English rendering is here:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/GG.htm
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the relevant German section is here: 
>>>>>> http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/funktion/gesetze/Grundgesetz/gg_09.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Artikel 102 Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. "
>>>>> That is exactly ALL the article says. It does not mention the
>>>>> NS period at all.
>>>> Very few laws include the rationale for their enactment.
>>>> 
>>>> Do laws prohibiting the act of murder mention any historical
>>>> period?
>>>> 
>>>> That background information comes from the debates and
>>>> discussions.
>>>> 
>>>>> It was enacted the moment that power was returned to German
>>>>> authorities, along with the provision that no German may be 
>>>>> turned over to a foreign power for trial or punishment. It was
>>>>> a response to gross allied postwar excesses in the area of
>>>>> capital punishment.
>>>> So you say, but I'd prefer that you provide the background
>>>> material to support the claim.
>>> Why? "Because I say so" is perfectly acceptable from you and the
>>> yids. According to you, at any rate.
>>> 
>> Besides, there isn't much point to giving German-language sources to 
>> this illiterate clown. It would just be a waste of my time. The
>> timing of both laws is a matter of public record, as are the gross
>> allied excesses in postwar Germany. People were sick and tired of
>> being exposed to allied caprice and of having no rights in their own 
>> country.
>
>Then why are you terrified to post the German language sources?

I'm not terrified of anything. I just have better ways to spend my
time than scanning book pages that will simply be snipped or rejected
by opponents who are after all here to disrupt, and not to discuss
anything. Everything I have said is a matter of public record, so you
are free to do your own searching. Try to use original sources rather
than the dreck from nizkor.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:21 EDT 2009
Article: 1995541 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank guardian reaches 100
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:04:14 +0100, "Herman"
 wrote:

>
>"Roger"  schreef in bericht 
>news:qh1kp45on31hcnm4r220st73v1i6hkfsev@4ax.com...
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>         in message :
>>
>>
>>>The number of "survivors" seems to be ballooning from decade to
>>>decade.
>>
>> Perhaps, if one is going to lie about the matter.
>>
>> But that's all you deniers have, isn't it?
>>
>Deniers can rant whatever they like.
>Miep Gies lives and knows what really happened. These morons don't.
>Anne Frank really existed, was picked up by the Germans because she was 
>Jewish and finally died of typhus in Bergen-Belsen. Let the idiots try and 
>deny that.

They generally don't dispute that she died of typhus, they dispute
that she was gassed as was the tale for many years.

>
>Regards,
>Herman
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:49:21 EDT 2009
Article: 1995542 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank guardian reaches 100
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:02:58 GMT, "Truthseeker" 
wrote:

>So you say as I know there are many way to milk the holocaust cow. Wile on a 
>visit to Germany in 1963 I did get an inside look of your system. After the 
>wars end each province was responsible to pay compensation to the victims of 
>the holocaust or members of their family. The way some young Jews went about 
>is the young Jews wend from one province to all other and collocated 
>holocaust compensation before returning to America. Why don't you give the 
>mafia the same chances.

The German authorities were aware that they were being defrauded but
paid anyway. Obviously they were afraid of the allies if they resisted
paying.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Herman"  wrote in message 
>news:5c0$49a5ea83$5ed50f1a$31461@cache5.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
>>
>> "Roger"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:qh1kp45on31hcnm4r220st73v1i6hkfsev@4ax.com...
>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>         in message :
>>>
>>>
>>>>The number of "survivors" seems to be ballooning from decade to
>>>>decade.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, if one is going to lie about the matter.
>>>
>>> But that's all you deniers have, isn't it?
>>>
>> Deniers can rant whatever they like.
>> Miep Gies lives and knows what really happened. These morons don't.
>> Anne Frank really existed, was picked up by the Germans because she was 
>> Jewish and finally died of typhus in Bergen-Belsen. Let the idiots try and 
>> deny that.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Herman
>>
>>
>> 
>


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